WEBVTT 1 00:00:31.039 --> 00:00:34.840 Welcome to mid Rats with foul from Commander Salamander and the Eagle One from Eagle 2 00:00:34.920 --> 00:00:39.640 Speak at Sea or Shore your home for a discussion of national security issues in 3 00:00:39.719 --> 00:00:48.159 all things maritime. And welcome avoid everybody, and welcome back to ourselves on 4 00:00:48.320 --> 00:00:52.719 the aforementioned style. Of course, we have Eagle one from Eagle Speak with 5 00:00:52.799 --> 00:00:55.640 us as well. We are your co host from mid Rats. For those 6 00:00:55.679 --> 00:00:58.560 that have forgotten, being that we've been off the oft the air for a 7 00:00:58.560 --> 00:01:03.520 few weeks, I don't know if you want to call that sick leave, 8 00:01:03.880 --> 00:01:10.000 our rest and relaxation week, or are just life is busy? Maybe a 9 00:01:10.040 --> 00:01:14.920 combination of all three. But we are back and in style today and lucky 10 00:01:14.959 --> 00:01:21.560 for everybody here this is the ever famous mid Rats melee free for all format. 11 00:01:21.599 --> 00:01:26.239 What that means is we are open topic, open mic, open ideas, 12 00:01:26.280 --> 00:01:30.439 open minds, and also open phones. If you look over at the 13 00:01:30.480 --> 00:01:34.680 show page, if you're with us live, you have our switchboard phone number 14 00:01:34.840 --> 00:01:37.920 and if you want to call in, we'll go ahead and take it. 15 00:01:38.040 --> 00:01:42.480 Or you can jump into the chat room. We already have Jack and we 16 00:01:42.560 --> 00:01:45.519 have our good friend Paul. They're already in the chat room. You can 17 00:01:45.599 --> 00:01:48.760 join them and you can put your questions right there, or if you have 18 00:01:48.840 --> 00:01:52.599 your observations you would like to share during the course of the show, we'll 19 00:01:52.599 --> 00:01:57.200 be monitoring it as well. And of course I have my handed any little 20 00:01:57.239 --> 00:02:00.959 iPad, even though Apple doesn't sponsor the show open So if you just wanted 21 00:02:01.000 --> 00:02:05.079 to DM me on Twitter, are at me at Twitter. Whatever you want 22 00:02:05.079 --> 00:02:07.959 to do with a question or topic you would like for us to address, 23 00:02:07.439 --> 00:02:10.879 we will be more than happy to do that. And I always want to 24 00:02:12.439 --> 00:02:15.120 give the altar call here at the beginning of the show. I know people 25 00:02:15.439 --> 00:02:17.360 have stuff to do, and remember if you got to leave and take care 26 00:02:17.360 --> 00:02:21.680 of some business halfway through the show, you won't miss anything. Just go 27 00:02:21.759 --> 00:02:25.520 over to iTunes, spreaker, Spotify, wherever you get your podcast, look 28 00:02:25.599 --> 00:02:29.199 up mid Rats and go ahead and subscribe to us. It's going to get 29 00:02:29.240 --> 00:02:31.400 you for free, and then we will be available for you at a time 30 00:02:31.439 --> 00:02:36.400 it's more convenient. And hey, Eagle one, it's good to talking to 31 00:02:36.520 --> 00:02:39.319 you. A good afternoon. Yeah, it's it's been a long time and 32 00:02:39.319 --> 00:02:43.400 we should probably explain to people just out of the kindness our hearts, that 33 00:02:45.680 --> 00:02:50.520 illness did play a part in this. Our absence and then the other perfect 34 00:02:50.520 --> 00:02:54.520 way. Sometimes we just as Seal said, we just get busy and Sunday 35 00:02:54.599 --> 00:02:59.919 becomes inconvenient for family reasons and other stuff. But we're back. I'm glad 36 00:02:59.919 --> 00:03:01.800 to have everybody with us. I'm sad to say that my chat room doesn't 37 00:03:01.800 --> 00:03:05.560 seem to be working today, but I'll see if I can fix that as 38 00:03:05.560 --> 00:03:12.560 the show proceeds and go from there. Right before we started, yeah, 39 00:03:12.599 --> 00:03:15.280 I restarted right before the show went going because I was having the same problem 40 00:03:15.319 --> 00:03:19.319 and it's come back up. The woman let me make any comments. I 41 00:03:19.400 --> 00:03:22.479 was gonna say hi to Paul and Jack, but it won't let me leave 42 00:03:22.479 --> 00:03:24.319 a comment. However, it is scrolling. I can't see it, so 43 00:03:24.360 --> 00:03:29.840 it just might be um, just a little fidgety here and there. I 44 00:03:29.879 --> 00:03:34.479 didn't put it in the show notes, but I was. You inspired me 45 00:03:34.599 --> 00:03:40.039 during the pre showed discussion, and simply because nothing will elicit more excitement than 46 00:03:40.800 --> 00:03:46.039 saying US Marine Corps. Maybe that'll bring him out of the woodwork. Um, 47 00:03:46.639 --> 00:03:47.919 it's uh, it's you know, it's a big hell call. But 48 00:03:49.599 --> 00:03:53.680 um, you brought up a topic that I think we definitely want to touch 49 00:03:53.800 --> 00:04:00.159 on, because especially before we went into our availability period in February. It 50 00:04:00.319 --> 00:04:03.759 was and it's still bubbly enough as a conversation point. And that has to 51 00:04:03.800 --> 00:04:11.840 do with the various nascinations ideas and retro concepts with a modern twist that we're 52 00:04:11.879 --> 00:04:18.519 seeing in response to the US Marine Corps EABO concept and the Western Pacific and 53 00:04:18.680 --> 00:04:27.160 the various ways are trying to answer the question about with the relatively lower than 54 00:04:27.240 --> 00:04:33.319 desired number of traditional amphibious ships in our fleet, how exactly they're going to 55 00:04:33.360 --> 00:04:40.240 be able to do the deployment, care and feeding of marines scattered all over 56 00:04:40.319 --> 00:04:50.560 the various islands atolls over in westpac Oh, are you there? I guess 57 00:04:50.560 --> 00:04:54.759 I should have put a question more minute. I would have rolled out, 58 00:04:55.040 --> 00:04:59.279 because that's something that I know you've been doing a lot of thinking about. 59 00:04:59.360 --> 00:05:02.160 So, um, you know, what are like the top couple things that 60 00:05:02.199 --> 00:05:08.160 pop into your mind that are either either interesting, controversial, or just uh 61 00:05:08.360 --> 00:05:14.319 seems like it might be an answer. Well, I think we've discussed before, 62 00:05:14.600 --> 00:05:16.560 but we should raise it again. I mean, the light amphibious worship 63 00:05:16.600 --> 00:05:20.040 the marines are looking at supposed to be was supposed to be a low cost, 64 00:05:21.240 --> 00:05:31.639 minimally armed where we thank you sorry, Uh, I didn't get that 65 00:05:31.759 --> 00:05:38.959 we have a heckler. Yeah, we're supposed to anyway, low cost, 66 00:05:39.000 --> 00:05:41.800 low speed, really fourteen not capable. It was supposed to be able to 67 00:05:41.879 --> 00:05:46.319 hide among uh, commercial traffic and all kinds of stuff. And then and 68 00:05:46.319 --> 00:05:49.279 then we find the Marines saying, well, uh, when the Navy says, 69 00:05:49.279 --> 00:05:53.319 well, we want to more armament, that we want to be able 70 00:05:53.319 --> 00:05:57.279 to protect the people who are driving this ship, the Marines go, well, 71 00:05:57.319 --> 00:05:59.800 you know, really, even though it says worship and its name it, 72 00:05:59.839 --> 00:06:01.959 we're not. It's not really a worship. It's just gonna drop marines 73 00:06:01.959 --> 00:06:05.560 off and then go hide somewhere and stay out of harm's away. Well, 74 00:06:06.720 --> 00:06:13.439 that that seems difficult if you're gonna move marines around so they're not trapped on 75 00:06:13.480 --> 00:06:20.319 the same little island or big island that that that mutation and go hide somewhere. 76 00:06:20.360 --> 00:06:26.160 That seemed to be a great idea, And then DARPA came up with 77 00:06:26.000 --> 00:06:32.720 another super duper idea, which is this, well they're calling the Liberty Lifter, 78 00:06:32.879 --> 00:06:40.000 which is a ground effect aircraft capable of ground effect flight and being able 79 00:06:40.000 --> 00:06:46.399 to fly up to ten thousand feet um to carry payloads similar to that of 80 00:06:46.560 --> 00:06:50.120 a of a C seventeen Globe Master. And they not only have come up 81 00:06:50.120 --> 00:06:57.160 with this concept, they've actually put out money, I guess for teams to 82 00:06:57.199 --> 00:07:00.959 start preparing a design. So what they're saying is this thing is going to 83 00:07:01.000 --> 00:07:08.600 be capable of on water operations up to C state five extended flight close to 84 00:07:08.600 --> 00:07:11.759 water ground effect, but the capability to fly out of ground effect allergies up 85 00:07:11.800 --> 00:07:18.160 to ten thousand feet. And the General Atomics team is working with the Maritime 86 00:07:18.160 --> 00:07:25.000 Applied Physicess Corporation and Aurora Flight Science is and who are working with Gibbs and 87 00:07:25.079 --> 00:07:29.279 Cocks and recon Craft. Got enough people involved, money gets spread everywhere. 88 00:07:30.279 --> 00:07:34.079 Are looking at a twin hall midwing design to optimize on water stability and seakeeping, 89 00:07:34.079 --> 00:07:42.920 which means you we have actually two aircraft size you know A fuselages and 90 00:07:44.319 --> 00:07:50.519 twelve turbo shaft engines to propel this thing. I can't wait. And it's 91 00:07:50.519 --> 00:07:56.879 supposed to be low cost too, of course, So yeah, I want 92 00:07:56.959 --> 00:07:59.680 I want to see this thing. I want to want to I want to 93 00:07:59.800 --> 00:08:01.319 I want to ride in one is what I want to do. I love 94 00:08:01.399 --> 00:08:05.439 the you know, the when I was when I was a young officer, 95 00:08:05.519 --> 00:08:11.040 the Caspian Sea Monster, the the ground effect aircraft at the Soviet Union had. 96 00:08:11.120 --> 00:08:16.160 I mean that was to strike terror and all the hearts of US surface 97 00:08:16.199 --> 00:08:20.480 warfare guys, because I could go fast it well, you know, it 98 00:08:20.519 --> 00:08:22.360 was like an airplane, but harder to find because it was going to be 99 00:08:22.439 --> 00:08:26.759 down below a lot of radar range, and they had all kinds of missiles 100 00:08:26.759 --> 00:08:31.839 and it was really cool looking and frightening. So if the Marines can move 101 00:08:31.879 --> 00:08:33.480 around with something like this, maybe this is maybe this is the answer to 102 00:08:33.559 --> 00:08:39.960 that fourteen knot question that I posed earlier, that they can go around in 103 00:08:39.960 --> 00:08:46.879 a hurry with with these liberty lifters. Yeah, if people haven't looked at 104 00:08:46.879 --> 00:08:50.480 the picture, I wouldn't encourage in just to google DARPA liberty lifter I would 105 00:08:50.519 --> 00:08:54.919 put in the chat room, but again won't let me um. Well, 106 00:08:54.960 --> 00:09:00.639 first of all, I just kind of figured being the aviation maintenance officer responsible 107 00:09:00.679 --> 00:09:05.399 for doing the CMU in the dailies and the weeklies on all of those engines. 108 00:09:05.759 --> 00:09:09.840 But I was lurking on a few people who have good knowledge of a 109 00:09:09.840 --> 00:09:16.000 seaplane, and a couple of folks that have into this radical thing called Amphibious 110 00:09:16.000 --> 00:09:22.399 Warfare School, who described based upon the pictures they have taken that assuming something 111 00:09:22.480 --> 00:09:28.120 that big and slow would make it to the beach without getting a wing blown 112 00:09:28.159 --> 00:09:31.600 off. Because you can see what you want to about an amphibious ship. 113 00:09:31.960 --> 00:09:35.519 Most of them can take up a few hits and keep moving forward if you 114 00:09:35.559 --> 00:09:41.039 don't hit the engine room. But they said that there's very limited number of 115 00:09:41.279 --> 00:09:50.759 beaches you could actually do that and be able to not breach your hull or 116 00:09:50.879 --> 00:09:54.399 not be able to leave again. You'd have to hit the tide just right 117 00:09:54.519 --> 00:09:58.639 on the right type of beach. And if you took a couple of the 118 00:09:58.639 --> 00:10:03.399 individ jels actually made the effort of looking at possible places in the Pacific, 119 00:10:03.399 --> 00:10:05.960 you would actually want to use this, and they go, you can't use 120 00:10:07.000 --> 00:10:11.679 this anywhere, unlike, I hate to say it, unlike something like a 121 00:10:11.720 --> 00:10:16.879 traditional seaplane that you can actually open up the cargo door and dump people into 122 00:10:16.919 --> 00:10:18.559 a boat. If you need to this thing, you have to open up 123 00:10:18.559 --> 00:10:22.840 its head like you do want to C five to be able to scorge things, 124 00:10:22.840 --> 00:10:26.639 so it has to be on terra firma, so it's really limited. 125 00:10:26.679 --> 00:10:30.879 It looks like a maintenance idea. I think it's a neat idea, but 126 00:10:31.200 --> 00:10:35.200 is it actually practical in a wartime situation. I don't really think so. 127 00:10:37.240 --> 00:10:43.200 The light amphibious warfare, which is kind of the traditional you know, LCUM 128 00:10:43.360 --> 00:10:48.360 landing craft medium or LST landing ship tank designs. But you know why I 129 00:10:48.440 --> 00:10:50.200 have an LST if you don't have any tanks. Even the Marine Corps got 130 00:10:50.279 --> 00:10:58.639 ridden theirs. But there's also some real interesting riding on different options there. 131 00:10:58.240 --> 00:11:05.519 And one of the things that the Congressional Research Service did a nice report on 132 00:11:05.559 --> 00:11:09.200 it. Again, people can look it up. Ronald' rourke and his legion 133 00:11:09.240 --> 00:11:13.559 of people who work over there should all be given three cars or something. 134 00:11:13.600 --> 00:11:18.000 They do great work. But I think it's a page twenty or twenty two 135 00:11:18.159 --> 00:11:26.399 of that document. It outlines something that you know, you and I have 136 00:11:26.440 --> 00:11:31.919 talked about this a lot. We've talked to John Conrad, Salmrecagliano, We've 137 00:11:31.960 --> 00:11:39.200 talked to Brian McGrath, Jerry Hendrix, we talked to all four sorts of 138 00:11:39.240 --> 00:11:43.679 folks about this, and you know Huntsman as well. I had to do 139 00:11:43.679 --> 00:11:50.320 it at the industrial base. Now the Navy again the efficiency versus effectiveness point 140 00:11:50.320 --> 00:11:54.799 of view, it has faded and it discusses it page twenty or twenty two 141 00:11:54.799 --> 00:12:00.279 of the document. The Navy has stated that it would like to do the 142 00:12:00.320 --> 00:12:03.240 most efficient thing. We just have one place, one shipyard build it. 143 00:12:03.799 --> 00:12:07.240 But there's an argument that can be made if you want to open up the 144 00:12:07.240 --> 00:12:11.960 aperture a bit. It may may it will cost more per unit, but 145 00:12:13.360 --> 00:12:22.519 from an industrial point of view and to help us maintain a diverse a shipyard 146 00:12:22.559 --> 00:12:28.360 capability that scalable, that the smart answer is actually to build them because you're 147 00:12:28.399 --> 00:12:31.559 going to build them a number if you do at and it's not a real 148 00:12:31.600 --> 00:12:37.919 complicated warship, it's not a nuclear submarine. Building at many different shipyards as 149 00:12:37.000 --> 00:12:45.120 possible to spread the money around and that way you have more people, more 150 00:12:45.200 --> 00:12:50.240 welders, more electricians, more ship fitters, more supply chains in local areas, 151 00:12:50.840 --> 00:12:54.399 more facilities in local areas. It can keep their door open. That 152 00:12:54.559 --> 00:13:01.279 this would be an opportunity to do less of an accountant being counting solution is 153 00:13:01.440 --> 00:13:03.480 to, you know, maybe build one or two less units, but build 154 00:13:03.480 --> 00:13:09.200 it at two, three, four or more shipyards and help the longer term 155 00:13:09.279 --> 00:13:16.919 priority, which is maintaining our industrial base and our skilled workforce. I thought 156 00:13:16.960 --> 00:13:20.039 that was a really, really good point. I'd like to read more details 157 00:13:20.039 --> 00:13:24.639 on it, but I haven't seen anybody besides the references in the CRS report 158 00:13:24.960 --> 00:13:33.440 really address that. Yeah, I think. I mean, if if I 159 00:13:33.519 --> 00:13:37.720 understand what they're trying to do with these these smaller ships, is that would 160 00:13:37.759 --> 00:13:39.200 be perfect. I mean, that's how they build LSTs. They were building 161 00:13:39.440 --> 00:13:43.279 LSTs, you know, on the on the Mississippi River. I think they 162 00:13:43.279 --> 00:13:48.159 were building them all over the country, and that makes perfect sense to me. 163 00:13:48.279 --> 00:13:52.879 Let's spread the word, the workaround, get people excited about doing these 164 00:13:52.960 --> 00:13:58.720 jobs, and uh, you know I got I'm also to remember LSTs that 165 00:13:58.759 --> 00:14:01.480 were from the world were two era, and I don't understand why we have 166 00:14:01.519 --> 00:14:07.399 to reinvent the wheel they were they were. If you're only gonna do fourteen 167 00:14:07.480 --> 00:14:11.000 knots, you don't need to have much more than a than a World War 168 00:14:11.039 --> 00:14:15.120 two LSC because that's what they about what they could do. So were they 169 00:14:15.159 --> 00:14:18.639 sure? Do you remember whether they were they were steam plant or were they 170 00:14:18.679 --> 00:14:24.360 diesel? Uh? Well, I think they were diesel. I don't I 171 00:14:24.399 --> 00:14:33.960 don't remember specifically, but they're the modern marine diesel um plants that are being 172 00:14:35.000 --> 00:14:37.759 produced right now. Really. I mean, it's hard to say a diesel 173 00:14:37.799 --> 00:14:41.279 engine sexy, but if you're an engineer, they're sexy. They're modern, 174 00:14:41.320 --> 00:14:46.120 they're efficient, they don't require armies of people to maintain them. There's um, 175 00:14:46.759 --> 00:14:52.039 if you can get past gas turbines on some type of warship and just 176 00:14:52.080 --> 00:14:56.799 have a diesel, it ends there's a lot of Yeah, you may give 177 00:14:56.879 --> 00:15:01.279 up some speed maybe, um, but boy do you gain some other things. 178 00:15:01.320 --> 00:15:05.919 You know, maybe you don't need to do twenty eight knots when twenty 179 00:15:05.960 --> 00:15:07.440 one will be fine. That's you know, it's it's something to think about. 180 00:15:07.480 --> 00:15:09.960 But I think you're right. I think they were diesels, but a 181 00:15:11.120 --> 00:15:18.200 much older generation diesels. The new diesels just are impressive. Yeah, there's 182 00:15:18.200 --> 00:15:26.759 a great book about prime movers and the diesel engine. Umw it disaffected the 183 00:15:26.840 --> 00:15:31.639 big diesels, the great big the great big ones. You're talking about the 184 00:15:31.799 --> 00:15:39.000 it's really amazing. So at some point I'll remember any book is remember we 185 00:15:39.039 --> 00:15:46.480 talked about it quite a few times last decade. Is um one of the 186 00:15:46.720 --> 00:15:52.679 what are the like right before the drop flopping the latorial combat ship reached the 187 00:15:52.799 --> 00:15:58.720 drop floping phone stage, is you had the CEO at the time I don't 188 00:15:58.759 --> 00:16:00.440 know which one it was. Maybe it was greener, I don't know. 189 00:16:03.320 --> 00:16:08.879 Stated well, in response people's concern about the survivability of lcs, well, 190 00:16:08.919 --> 00:16:11.799 you know, it's really fast, you can run away if combat ever shows 191 00:16:11.879 --> 00:16:15.159 up. It's like, I mean quick calling it a combat ship if you 192 00:16:15.159 --> 00:16:19.519 don't even then for it to go on Harm's way. And I think kind 193 00:16:19.559 --> 00:16:25.360 of a self owe or a self goal in this whole discussion, is you 194 00:16:25.399 --> 00:16:29.919 know of the light amphibious warfare ship is you know, the W stands for 195 00:16:30.000 --> 00:16:36.639 warfare, And yet they're talking about it and strictly a peacetime sustainment point of 196 00:16:36.720 --> 00:16:38.559 view, saying that, well, you know, we're not going to have 197 00:16:38.639 --> 00:16:44.159 these things chugging around the South China Sea in time of combat. They're going 198 00:16:44.240 --> 00:16:48.159 to you know, go away, retreat, get out of harm's way. 199 00:16:48.919 --> 00:16:55.000 I don't think with the size of our fleet we had the luxury of designing 200 00:16:55.039 --> 00:17:00.320 that conopts for war. And I think I'm willing to put a paycheck on 201 00:17:00.360 --> 00:17:04.640 this if that comes, those ships are going to go on Harm's way. 202 00:17:04.680 --> 00:17:10.119 We don't have that luxury. Sailors are going to be asked to take whatever 203 00:17:10.160 --> 00:17:12.559 ships they can to accomplish the mission at hand, and they're not going to 204 00:17:12.640 --> 00:17:18.920 be able to look up at you know, seventh Fleet and go sorry Avril. 205 00:17:19.160 --> 00:17:22.920 Um. You know General Burger said in twenty twenty two that I'm not 206 00:17:22.960 --> 00:17:26.119 allowed to go into harm's way with this boat. I mean, it's just 207 00:17:26.200 --> 00:17:30.519 not going to work. I'm not saying that these things need to be bulletproof. 208 00:17:30.599 --> 00:17:34.880 You can, you can assume some more risk. But I think at 209 00:17:34.920 --> 00:17:40.839 off the bat saying that this is just a piece time asset, I don't 210 00:17:41.079 --> 00:17:45.640 I don't understand that. I'm willing to be educated, but I when I 211 00:17:45.680 --> 00:17:47.960 first read that, I thought it was in this print until I saw them 212 00:17:48.000 --> 00:17:53.000 three other four articles. I just think that's that's put the entire the entire 213 00:17:53.000 --> 00:17:59.079 operation, I think in jeopardy because it doesn't solve it doesn't um answer the 214 00:17:59.119 --> 00:18:03.759 following question. And then specifically, anybody in Congress can just ask why should 215 00:18:03.759 --> 00:18:10.599 I buy something for the military that the military can't use at war? It's 216 00:18:10.599 --> 00:18:15.000 a valid critique. Yeah, I think I wonder if that was a response 217 00:18:15.200 --> 00:18:21.000 to the criticism of the fact that this thing is so lightly armed, and 218 00:18:22.559 --> 00:18:25.720 um, you know that they response to that is well, yeah, it 219 00:18:25.759 --> 00:18:27.640 is lightning arm because we don't really intend to make it. It's not gonna 220 00:18:27.680 --> 00:18:33.079 it's not going to storm. The beaches can drop guys off and and and 221 00:18:33.119 --> 00:18:36.759 then and then go away and come back and pick them up later on. 222 00:18:36.839 --> 00:18:41.720 I mean, I assume that's kind of what the thought process was that in 223 00:18:41.799 --> 00:18:45.079 defense of the because you know, the marine. The marine idea was that 224 00:18:45.160 --> 00:18:48.720 these things would be very inexpensive to build, and the Navy got into it 225 00:18:48.720 --> 00:18:53.759 and said, well, no, it doesn't it doesn't provide as enough weaponry, 226 00:18:53.799 --> 00:18:59.119 and it doesn't provide enough safety for the for the for the cruise, 227 00:18:59.200 --> 00:19:03.880 the Navy cruise, and you know, like essentially double the cost I think 228 00:19:03.960 --> 00:19:07.920 or one point five times the Marine Corps guess and what it would cost. 229 00:19:07.599 --> 00:19:14.119 So I just you know, which isn't too surprising since once the Navy gets 230 00:19:14.240 --> 00:19:18.359 involved in and matters like that, they want to they want it to be 231 00:19:18.680 --> 00:19:27.680 Tiffany and not m Renault or or which you know, you go go and 232 00:19:27.720 --> 00:19:33.839 there are are very admirable things about you know, how we design warships. 233 00:19:33.839 --> 00:19:38.880 And we'll see whether we screw up the Constellation class frigate, which is you 234 00:19:38.920 --> 00:19:45.119 know, okay, um, it's good that we have a higher survivability standard 235 00:19:45.160 --> 00:19:51.200 than perhaps a bunch of our allies. Uh, you know, if you 236 00:19:51.279 --> 00:19:53.000 need a ten but you have a nine point seven, you know, is 237 00:19:53.039 --> 00:19:56.640 it really worth what you need to do to get that additional point three? 238 00:19:56.720 --> 00:20:00.720 Don't know? As we saw with the most recent examples. You know, 239 00:20:00.759 --> 00:20:03.799 you can go back to the coal. Thank god, that was a long 240 00:20:03.839 --> 00:20:07.880 time ago. We had Kirk Lippold on to talk about that, but you 241 00:20:07.000 --> 00:20:14.039 also had the mccanon fitzgerald with no notice. Our sailors do damage control exceptionally 242 00:20:14.240 --> 00:20:18.119 well, and a lot of that's the way our ships are designed. But 243 00:20:19.000 --> 00:20:22.039 I think you can overdo it in some regards if you have a smaller ship. 244 00:20:22.759 --> 00:20:26.960 I which, again it goes back why I thought the argument about the 245 00:20:26.039 --> 00:20:30.359 latorial combat ship where we'll bravely turn itself led in the face of the enemy. 246 00:20:30.480 --> 00:20:34.920 It's not a response. You don't want a disposable ship. But you 247 00:20:36.160 --> 00:20:40.240 you know, there's nothing wrong with acknowledging the fact that you know you have 248 00:20:40.279 --> 00:20:42.680 a trade off here, especially in your smaller ships, that yeah, they're 249 00:20:42.720 --> 00:20:45.279 going to be more vulnerable. That's why we're building them in number. But 250 00:20:47.039 --> 00:20:52.480 uh, you know, not everything can be a titanium encased sphere, because 251 00:20:52.480 --> 00:20:59.000 then you can't do anything else. I think that the the macro argument, 252 00:20:59.079 --> 00:21:02.720 not necessarily the one that's being made, the macro argument for bringing in an 253 00:21:02.880 --> 00:21:08.519 LSM LST, because I think we got rid of our last LST in the 254 00:21:08.880 --> 00:21:12.400 mid to early double zeros. Maybe I think that argument can be made. 255 00:21:14.559 --> 00:21:19.240 I think we added an episode right after that, one of the many actual 256 00:21:19.319 --> 00:21:26.440 disasters in Haiti where it was our heavy lifts and any lift rotary wing, 257 00:21:26.599 --> 00:21:30.559 but also our amphibious shifts are the only ones that can get ashore. You 258 00:21:30.599 --> 00:21:33.640 know, there's a lot of capability at having things besides a large deck am 259 00:21:33.720 --> 00:21:41.519 fib that can get personnel and material across the beach and the LSM LST size. 260 00:21:41.720 --> 00:21:47.480 It's it's something that is missing from our toolkit. Some of our allies 261 00:21:47.519 --> 00:21:51.720 have it. There's no guarantee that when you want your allied equipment, allies 262 00:21:51.720 --> 00:21:55.319 equipment that they're going to one show up and two if they do show up, 263 00:21:55.319 --> 00:21:59.359 their national caveat to will let them get within XX nautical models where you 264 00:21:59.400 --> 00:22:06.039 need them to go. Spoken like a true NATO hand. I'm still in 265 00:22:06.119 --> 00:22:14.839 therapy over dealing with NATO national caveats. I'll recover maybe next decade. Oh 266 00:22:14.880 --> 00:22:18.319 man, Well, speaking of things that affects sailors. You you you put 267 00:22:18.359 --> 00:22:25.160 in the the blurb for the show that we're gonna talking about San Diego's parking. 268 00:22:26.279 --> 00:22:30.319 Tell people what that's about. Yeah. Well, and again this I 269 00:22:30.319 --> 00:22:36.039 would I would ask for the indulgence to our kind and gentle listeners, indulge 270 00:22:36.039 --> 00:22:38.359 me on this I have there A few things will trigger me, a lot 271 00:22:38.359 --> 00:22:44.680 of things will turner me, but um one thing that really really frustrated me, 272 00:22:44.839 --> 00:22:52.680 especially and um uh the the juicy center of my career. And when 273 00:22:52.680 --> 00:22:59.640 you're true, when you're on. I have a preference for small and medium 274 00:22:59.640 --> 00:23:03.920 sized basis, mostly because you get better support for your sailors, you can 275 00:23:03.960 --> 00:23:11.359 get some things done more effectively. It's it's a better quality of work, 276 00:23:11.480 --> 00:23:17.559 better quality of life. I'm extremely biased against Naval Station Norfolk, Naval Station 277 00:23:17.640 --> 00:23:23.359 San Diego at large and you know, and asked Jacksonville, Oceania. They're 278 00:23:23.640 --> 00:23:33.279 huge and just getting on and off base during the peak periods. It's it's 279 00:23:33.400 --> 00:23:38.480 quasi traumatizing because there's just so many people there that we packed in because we 280 00:23:38.559 --> 00:23:45.440 have this you know, mid nineteen hundreds industrial concept of what it means to 281 00:23:45.480 --> 00:23:52.839 employ people. And there's and I'm going to give everybody a little preview of 282 00:23:52.839 --> 00:23:56.279 what my post is going to be tomorrow. Except but because I have to, 283 00:23:56.960 --> 00:24:02.079 it's back on. You can't stuff Betre in this. On Valentine's Day, 284 00:24:03.079 --> 00:24:11.279 the Commanding Officer, Naval Based San Diego sent out a letter which I'm 285 00:24:11.279 --> 00:24:15.880 sure it's record message traffic too, but I just had the letter for an 286 00:24:15.880 --> 00:24:22.680 immediate change to policy on nav Base San Diego instruction ten thousand words in letters 287 00:24:22.720 --> 00:24:30.079 about illegal parking and there to see what here's a couple of quotes from it 288 00:24:30.160 --> 00:24:34.480 as I can, as I could he here the commanding Officer, Naval Base 289 00:24:34.519 --> 00:24:41.759 San Diego raging through the closed oralness. On average, they Naval Base San 290 00:24:41.759 --> 00:24:47.079 Diego responds to twenty calls for service a day for illegally parked vehicles, over 291 00:24:47.200 --> 00:24:52.160 one hundred tot a month. And what they're going to do. It's gotten 292 00:24:52.200 --> 00:24:56.599 so bad. And most of this I've been told is just people parking where 293 00:24:56.599 --> 00:25:02.359 it looks like a parking spot. Because when I checked into a few folks, 294 00:25:02.359 --> 00:25:06.039 I said, hey, your average standard issues sailor having problems getting a 295 00:25:06.079 --> 00:25:08.319 decent parking spot, how much how much a day is just chewing up at 296 00:25:08.319 --> 00:25:12.160 their time having to get from their parked car to get to their command. 297 00:25:12.200 --> 00:25:15.200 It's like, well, you know, obviously depends up on where you are, 298 00:25:15.480 --> 00:25:19.200 but they said, yeah, this is probably an hour to two hours 299 00:25:19.279 --> 00:25:22.160 for some people just to be able to get to work from where they have 300 00:25:22.240 --> 00:25:26.119 to park their car. So people are looking at Okay, there's not a 301 00:25:26.160 --> 00:25:27.880 line here, but there's this like a parking spot, and it's considered illegal. 302 00:25:27.960 --> 00:25:34.559 But they're implementing a point system now in San Diego where people who are 303 00:25:34.640 --> 00:25:38.519 illegally parked, even in this stuff that says don't park here, will be 304 00:25:38.559 --> 00:25:48.319 issued a federal magistrate citation with two points against and their vehicle maybe toad probably 305 00:25:48.440 --> 00:25:52.960 have the limitations of the number of tow trucks available, but they will have 306 00:25:52.000 --> 00:25:57.759 their installation driving privileges suspended for thirty days. They get a parking sticket, 307 00:25:57.880 --> 00:26:03.200 which means that sailor that was maybe he was lucky and it only cost him 308 00:26:03.240 --> 00:26:06.599 forty five minutes a day. Now it's going to cost him closer to two 309 00:26:06.599 --> 00:26:08.200 hours because he gonna have the park off base or find somebody to pick him 310 00:26:08.279 --> 00:26:12.680 up to take him in and you get to two points reach illegal one and 311 00:26:14.319 --> 00:26:18.920 if you get six months, six points in a twelve months, nine points 312 00:26:18.960 --> 00:26:22.519 in the twenty four or twelve points in a thirty six month period, you 313 00:26:22.559 --> 00:26:30.720 will lose your driving privileges for a full year. I was having flashbacks and 314 00:26:30.839 --> 00:26:36.680 night twitches from some difficult experiences for not so much Median, but for a 315 00:26:36.680 --> 00:26:41.519 lot of the sailors I remember from the nineteen nineties and off. You know, 316 00:26:41.599 --> 00:26:47.880 these policies are being made by people who have assigned parking spots where they 317 00:26:47.920 --> 00:26:52.559 can you know, their their transit to their primary mode. It can be 318 00:26:52.680 --> 00:26:56.400 measured in seconds and sometimes before they cross a quarter deck. San Diego, 319 00:26:56.440 --> 00:27:00.240 actually, I think it's the best place in the world if you've got to 320 00:27:00.559 --> 00:27:06.319 walk thirty minutes forty five minutes one way to get to your command from you 321 00:27:06.359 --> 00:27:08.000 know, because it's San Diego, it's a beautiful weather, it's raining. 322 00:27:08.519 --> 00:27:17.319 But picture the people in the picture that people in grotten. Picture the people 323 00:27:17.480 --> 00:27:19.720 in Jacksonville, Florida during the worst part of the year, whether it's winter 324 00:27:19.799 --> 00:27:23.400 and black eyes. If you're up in Groton, our Newport, which I 325 00:27:23.400 --> 00:27:30.599 don't think is at bags are small basis, but summertime in Virginia and Florida, 326 00:27:32.119 --> 00:27:36.759 it's hell, it's raining, it's just it's it's one of those things 327 00:27:36.799 --> 00:27:41.240 that this has been known for decades. We spend an incredible amount of money 328 00:27:41.240 --> 00:27:45.519 on incredibly stupid things. And we've all talked to sailors to have the list 329 00:27:45.680 --> 00:27:48.640 of why I want to come in, why I want to come out and 330 00:27:48.680 --> 00:27:52.799 get out of the Navy, why we'll re enlist, why I won't recommend 331 00:27:52.880 --> 00:27:56.119 anybody joined the Navy. Some things you can't can't do anything about. Some 332 00:27:56.160 --> 00:28:03.279 things you can. In the civilian sector, if major companies treated their employees 333 00:28:03.960 --> 00:28:08.160 for something as basic as where they will park their primary transportation in order for 334 00:28:08.160 --> 00:28:11.000 them to be able to work for you the way the Navy did, those 335 00:28:11.039 --> 00:28:15.880 companies would be bankrupt or their board directors would fire their senior leadership and replace 336 00:28:15.920 --> 00:28:21.480 it, because you cannot keep your best employees when you treat them like trash. 337 00:28:21.519 --> 00:28:26.000 And I fully understand the frustration that the commander of Naval based San Diego 338 00:28:26.079 --> 00:28:34.920 has, other based commanders have, regional commanders have it. They don't control 339 00:28:36.480 --> 00:28:41.720 most of them what is built or not built on their property. It really 340 00:28:41.720 --> 00:28:45.799 goes to DC, it goes to Congress to be able to fund those things, 341 00:28:45.839 --> 00:28:48.680 and probably the EBA in a couple of places. But it just it 342 00:28:48.720 --> 00:28:53.279 was a reminder to me, because I left active duty at thirteen and change 343 00:28:53.359 --> 00:29:00.319 years ago, that those things that date back decades, we just we tell 344 00:29:00.319 --> 00:29:06.920 our sailors suck it up on a good parking spot green for command, be 345 00:29:06.960 --> 00:29:11.519 a command master chief or when wanted to raffle. Besides that, you need 346 00:29:11.519 --> 00:29:14.119 to be at work by six o'clock in the morning so you can start your 347 00:29:14.119 --> 00:29:17.440 walk from your car at five to fifteen. It just it just triggered me. 348 00:29:17.480 --> 00:29:19.359 Maybe I'm overacting a bit, maybe I'm too sensitive, but it just 349 00:29:19.400 --> 00:29:26.039 remembered a lot of conversations I had with other officers and also some sailors about 350 00:29:26.039 --> 00:29:30.319 their experiences on these large bases. And it's reached a point in San Diego 351 00:29:30.359 --> 00:29:34.680 at least if the commander has got to do something quite draconian because sailors want 352 00:29:34.680 --> 00:29:40.519 to show up to work on time and they're getting in trouble for it. 353 00:29:40.519 --> 00:29:45.000 It's just it's just it's a it's an unforced error. I think, Yeah, 354 00:29:45.039 --> 00:29:51.440 it's I don't you know, there was a time when when I always 355 00:29:51.440 --> 00:29:56.799 wonder about whether our parking situation, whyatt hasn't gotten any better dated back when 356 00:29:56.559 --> 00:30:00.559 sailors E three and below maybe and have cars at all. I mean, 357 00:30:00.599 --> 00:30:06.599 it's kind of like when you're in when you're in college and the freshman uh 358 00:30:07.079 --> 00:30:11.559 weren't allowed to have cars back in the day because it just created enormous problems 359 00:30:11.599 --> 00:30:17.680 for parking. I mean it's so if if you're if your largest number of 360 00:30:17.680 --> 00:30:22.920 people on on board ships E three and below, uh, then and they 361 00:30:22.319 --> 00:30:26.440 and they can't have cars, that that does simplify parking prods. But we 362 00:30:26.640 --> 00:30:33.400 that rule went away, so uh you know, then that's it is the 363 00:30:33.440 --> 00:30:40.480 obligation I think of the employer to provide parking for the sufficient number of people 364 00:30:40.519 --> 00:30:45.119 to uh get to work. That's that's part of the that's part of the 365 00:30:45.119 --> 00:30:48.480 mission of the employer and the employer. This case is not COO Naval Base 366 00:30:49.359 --> 00:30:53.599 San Diego. It's as you said, it's properly up in the upper levels 367 00:30:53.640 --> 00:31:00.160 of d D in Congress to fund adequate um parking areas for the for the 368 00:31:00.200 --> 00:31:06.160 sailors or many of them are forced to live by costs to farrow farther away 369 00:31:06.240 --> 00:31:12.559 from the from their offices. Then then you know, it makes it even 370 00:31:12.559 --> 00:31:17.039 harder for them if they have to live in you know, twenty or thirty 371 00:31:17.079 --> 00:31:19.400 miles away or forty miles away just to get to get in and then to 372 00:31:19.400 --> 00:31:25.200 find out there's no place to park. That creates a nightmare situation. And 373 00:31:26.319 --> 00:31:30.799 I'm reminded of Robert Towns and the guy who started Avis rent a Car. 374 00:31:30.960 --> 00:31:33.519 Years ago. He wrote a book called Up the Organization, and one of 375 00:31:33.559 --> 00:31:38.079 the things he said about reserve parking spots for his executives and stuff was he 376 00:31:38.599 --> 00:31:41.960 did away with him. He said, if you if, if you, 377 00:31:42.839 --> 00:31:45.359 if you're so important and you need to be there, get there early. 378 00:31:45.400 --> 00:31:49.240 You'll you'll find a parking right where you wanted. And if otherwise, you'll 379 00:31:49.240 --> 00:31:52.559 find that you meet a lot of really nice people in the parking lots, 380 00:31:52.079 --> 00:31:55.720 and you know, you get to know your workers. You get to know 381 00:31:55.799 --> 00:31:59.240 your workers. So I'm kind of at the Towns in school. You know, 382 00:31:59.279 --> 00:32:06.119 unless there's um uh true necessity for for somebody have a reserve parking spot. 383 00:32:06.160 --> 00:32:07.960 And you know, I go back to the to the days in front 384 00:32:07.960 --> 00:32:12.400 of the Navy Exchange when they when the uh, you know, they'll be 385 00:32:12.440 --> 00:32:17.039 reserve parking for flags and then captains and and you know, but it was 386 00:32:17.119 --> 00:32:22.880 usually the captain's wife or somebody who would be parking in this spot. You 387 00:32:22.920 --> 00:32:25.079 know it, how big a deal is it? We're if we're physically fit 388 00:32:25.240 --> 00:32:30.640 enough to to be as as we all know we are because we passed the 389 00:32:30.640 --> 00:32:35.720 pr tts UM, then it shouldn't hurt you to walk the extra fifty sixty 390 00:32:35.720 --> 00:32:39.200 one hundred feet or hundred yards to get where you're going. And if you 391 00:32:39.279 --> 00:32:43.160 really need to be there at a certain time to be in charge, to 392 00:32:43.200 --> 00:32:45.559 get there early enough, and you know, maybe that maybe if we're saying, 393 00:32:45.559 --> 00:32:49.119 well, it's hard enough being a seal of a ship without having to 394 00:32:49.119 --> 00:32:52.319 to to walk two hundred and fifty yards or get up at you know, 395 00:32:52.400 --> 00:32:57.880 an extra hour early to be there. But to me, uh, the 396 00:32:57.960 --> 00:33:02.759 average sailor needs to to be treated with respect. We would treat any employee 397 00:33:02.759 --> 00:33:07.599 of of of you know, let's let's let's look at the GS situation in 398 00:33:07.640 --> 00:33:13.079 the Pentagon, you know, or how many people there can't find parking? 399 00:33:13.119 --> 00:33:15.279 And I think the answer is few, because that's a huge parking lot. 400 00:33:15.440 --> 00:33:20.240 And that's the way it ought to be. On the on the naval basis. 401 00:33:22.559 --> 00:33:25.000 Yeah, it's it's again. It's it's one of those simple and straightforward 402 00:33:25.119 --> 00:33:28.920 things that and I like the fact that you mentioned that you know, used 403 00:33:28.920 --> 00:33:30.680 to be you know a lot of people lived on base. Can't do that 404 00:33:30.720 --> 00:33:37.720 anymore, um, And you know you can't tell you try hard to recruit. 405 00:33:37.799 --> 00:33:42.039 You know, you look at the average struggle we have to recruit. 406 00:33:42.640 --> 00:33:45.519 I'll just use an example of somebody who's worth their weight in gold, a 407 00:33:45.640 --> 00:33:50.599 nuclear machinist. Mate. You know a lot of those guys already have college 408 00:33:50.640 --> 00:33:54.440 degrees. They're smarter than I am. They're really good guys, gals, 409 00:33:54.720 --> 00:34:02.160 um, and we need them. You don't want um a lower quartile person 410 00:34:02.240 --> 00:34:06.640 in your nuclear plant. And we're going to tell them, Hey, you 411 00:34:06.680 --> 00:34:07.920 know you need to show up. You need to show up at the park 412 00:34:08.000 --> 00:34:13.480 lot at five to fifteen so you can drive forty five minutes through through driving 413 00:34:13.599 --> 00:34:16.840 rain to work twelve hours and then you can walk forty five minutes back. 414 00:34:17.199 --> 00:34:22.400 And then because you you have two kids, you live forty five minutes away 415 00:34:22.440 --> 00:34:25.800 to an hour away, then you can drive back. So you're gonna work 416 00:34:25.840 --> 00:34:30.280 twelve hours a day. You're gonna have ninety two one hundred and twenty minutes 417 00:34:30.360 --> 00:34:36.639 commute and you're gonna have another ninety minutes of walking in the outside in all 418 00:34:36.719 --> 00:34:39.440 weather. Uh, please sign your realistment paperwork. It don't work that way, 419 00:34:39.719 --> 00:34:44.119 not in this not in this economy, not in the fight for quality. 420 00:34:44.599 --> 00:34:49.400 And you look at all these A lot of our listeners do live in 421 00:34:49.400 --> 00:34:52.679 parts of the country that are doing all right. You look at all the 422 00:34:52.719 --> 00:34:57.679 new construction that's going on, especially multi family housing. What are they putting 423 00:34:57.679 --> 00:35:01.119 in? They're they're putting in multi layer parking garages. You go on a 424 00:35:01.119 --> 00:35:06.880 lot of our naval bases, what do you have acres and acres of one 425 00:35:06.960 --> 00:35:16.800 layer parking because somebody has decided that's there's value in saving money from building a 426 00:35:16.880 --> 00:35:22.400 parking garage. Then there is in creating quality of work and quality of life 427 00:35:23.039 --> 00:35:27.119 for people who've decided to serve. And it's not a big thing, and 428 00:35:27.199 --> 00:35:35.400 it's pretty having good, effective, timely ability to park your car to come 429 00:35:35.440 --> 00:35:40.639 into work. It's a fairly egalitarian activity. It whether you have a signed 430 00:35:40.679 --> 00:35:45.719 parking spots right next to the ship or not. It's going to help your 431 00:35:45.840 --> 00:35:50.159 E three, it's going to help your E eight, it's going to help 432 00:35:50.199 --> 00:35:53.920 your O one, your oh three, everybody on up by having that, 433 00:35:54.000 --> 00:35:59.840 if not directly by having better parking, but by having sailors who don't show 434 00:35:59.880 --> 00:36:05.199 up in the morning already pissed off and bitter because for the second day of 435 00:36:05.199 --> 00:36:10.480 the road they showed up soaking wet, if not from sweat, from rain, 436 00:36:10.960 --> 00:36:15.599 and they're working off of their day five of four hours of sleep, 437 00:36:15.599 --> 00:36:21.920 and it's it's something that's actionable, but we've just like I said, it 438 00:36:22.800 --> 00:36:25.159 triggered me a bit because it's just it's just really frustrating. It would be 439 00:36:25.199 --> 00:36:31.239 as if we still had a drug problem in the Navy because people decided it 440 00:36:31.280 --> 00:36:35.440 would be too hard to try to fight it, and here we are in 441 00:36:35.480 --> 00:36:39.239 twenty twenty three having the same drug problem we had in nineteen seventy eight. 442 00:36:40.280 --> 00:36:45.199 Some things are fixable. It just takes focus and work and telling people what 443 00:36:45.239 --> 00:36:55.039 you're doing. Yeah, you know, And I'm not talking about forgiving people 444 00:36:55.079 --> 00:37:01.559 who park in fire lanes or situations where they're actually endangering you know, the 445 00:37:02.360 --> 00:37:07.519 lives and safety of other people. But we are just talking about how hard 446 00:37:07.559 --> 00:37:10.519 it is if for the every sailor to find a decent place to park near 447 00:37:10.719 --> 00:37:15.599 where his his work is and his work is on a ship. And you 448 00:37:15.639 --> 00:37:17.719 know, if if the problem is we have too many ships in port at 449 00:37:17.719 --> 00:37:22.320 a time, then again, your solution, I think is a good one 450 00:37:22.400 --> 00:37:27.280 is let's move some of the ships to other ports. And you know, 451 00:37:27.320 --> 00:37:30.199 I know, I know Jacksonville now is home to a lot more ships than 452 00:37:30.280 --> 00:37:34.320 I than I was aware of originally. They've they've you've got all kinds of 453 00:37:34.360 --> 00:37:38.320 good stuff working out of there now. So uh, I think that helps 454 00:37:38.440 --> 00:37:43.920 ease the burden in uh In Norfolk, I would hope for the for the 455 00:37:44.000 --> 00:37:49.199 naval operating base there, And you know, since we lost Charleston and some 456 00:37:49.280 --> 00:37:55.079 of the other bases, and more and more people into these into these mega 457 00:37:55.639 --> 00:38:00.719 mega bases, and uh, I think that just makes life difficult for a 458 00:38:00.800 --> 00:38:05.039 vilion, you know. And and it's bad enough that you have to go 459 00:38:05.119 --> 00:38:08.920 through the gate situation, and that's usually a traffic can nightmare too, So 460 00:38:10.239 --> 00:38:19.559 it's it's complicated. It also goes into I will always and forever give great 461 00:38:19.559 --> 00:38:22.800 credit to Admiral Harvey his last year on active duty, and this in the 462 00:38:22.800 --> 00:38:28.400 first time you mentioned it, but he came out in public talking about strategic 463 00:38:28.480 --> 00:38:35.039 homeboarding and the usual suspects pooh pooed him. But it all depends upon who 464 00:38:35.119 --> 00:38:37.760 you are talking to. You know, are you if you take the short 465 00:38:37.960 --> 00:38:46.400 term, peacetime economic view of things, then you're going to do what we 466 00:38:46.440 --> 00:38:52.239 did. We just pack everybody in. And I'm looking for but I have 467 00:38:52.360 --> 00:38:58.079 not found a better phrase than strategic homeboarding because I don't think it captures a 468 00:38:58.159 --> 00:39:00.599 lot of the secondary effects. Like you has mentioned quality of live, quality 469 00:39:00.599 --> 00:39:07.239 of work, but you also have a situation and we've reached and let's use 470 00:39:07.280 --> 00:39:12.119 strategic. And when people will say strategic homeboarding, the concern was, well, 471 00:39:12.159 --> 00:39:15.400 at the big nuke coming in, taking out your entire fleet at Christmas. 472 00:39:15.800 --> 00:39:22.719 But there's we are in the age now of precision, global prompt strike, 473 00:39:23.639 --> 00:39:28.639 and every half decade more people are going to have that ability to do 474 00:39:28.719 --> 00:39:35.079 that. Whether it's a conventionally tipped ballistic missile, are it's a van load 475 00:39:35.239 --> 00:39:40.039 of twenty three year olds with a bunch of drones dropping gradaides off of the 476 00:39:40.280 --> 00:39:45.880 base, going after the ship and the fuel farms on base. If you 477 00:39:45.960 --> 00:39:53.239 have your fleet better distributed, then you decrease your strategic risk of your fleet 478 00:39:53.639 --> 00:40:00.360 being concentrated in a few places that are very vulnerable, and it well thing 479 00:40:00.400 --> 00:40:07.199 about everything in San Diego. It also gives me to hebe geebs is that's 480 00:40:07.239 --> 00:40:13.519 one of the most And we saw this a little bit up in Seattle and 481 00:40:13.639 --> 00:40:19.360 they had to shut down maintenance because of worries about earthquakes. Is your one 482 00:40:19.880 --> 00:40:23.039 natural disaster away which we know will happen. It may happen next week, 483 00:40:23.079 --> 00:40:29.000 it might happen a thousand years, but at some point that everything in San 484 00:40:29.000 --> 00:40:35.800 Diego that floats is going to find itself transported about two hundred two thousand yards 485 00:40:35.880 --> 00:40:39.119 inland with about fifteen minutes. Notice, because that's what's happened a lot in 486 00:40:39.199 --> 00:40:45.679 history. When you have your forces spread around both man made and natural disasters, 487 00:40:45.880 --> 00:40:50.079 you you're not one bad day away from having half the fleet you had 488 00:40:50.119 --> 00:40:58.679 the day before. Yeah, that's you know, we'll just the end of 489 00:40:58.760 --> 00:41:02.639 history. Theory keeps coming back to bid us in the rear end. And 490 00:41:05.360 --> 00:41:10.239 um, well, because you know, I remember remember Marshenko when he had 491 00:41:10.360 --> 00:41:15.039 he was talking about red teams and all that stuff. You know, I'm 492 00:41:15.079 --> 00:41:19.719 a big believer in red teeming things and having guys think about, you know, 493 00:41:20.079 --> 00:41:22.880 what if I were a bad guy, what would I do? How 494 00:41:22.920 --> 00:41:25.280 would I How would I screw things up royally? And you know a lot 495 00:41:25.320 --> 00:41:30.920 of these end up in novels these days. Uh and and uh. You 496 00:41:30.960 --> 00:41:37.000 know here's how you could screw royally if you did X and Y. But 497 00:41:37.159 --> 00:41:42.320 you know, just just stall a few vehicles in front of the main gates 498 00:41:42.360 --> 00:41:47.280 at at any of these naval bases and go okay, good luck, you 499 00:41:47.280 --> 00:41:51.239 know, And then and then cause something that will require the fleet to sortie 500 00:41:51.280 --> 00:41:54.000 and you you'd really have a you'd really mc quig murray. And it wouldn't 501 00:41:54.039 --> 00:42:00.960 it take all that much, wouldn't take any super weapons. No, it's 502 00:42:00.960 --> 00:42:05.599 just it's a challenge, and it's it's it's expensive, and we have, 503 00:42:05.760 --> 00:42:09.239 you know, lots of challenges are trying to meet um threats that we let 504 00:42:09.480 --> 00:42:15.400 creep up on us. Like there was a I had a double check in 505 00:42:15.440 --> 00:42:17.840 triple check. He is still an active duty I just found it surprising that 506 00:42:17.920 --> 00:42:22.239 such a position would be an active duty officer. My ignorance. I'm not 507 00:42:22.280 --> 00:42:29.840 a DC hand, but um US Air Force Major General Cameron Holt. He 508 00:42:30.039 --> 00:42:37.519 is the Deputy Assistant Secretary Defense for Acquisitions. He puts some nice figures out 509 00:42:37.639 --> 00:42:39.840 of things that, you know, we've talked about before that we all know 510 00:42:39.920 --> 00:42:47.639 intuitively it's just hard to really quantify him. But when we've all seen the 511 00:42:47.760 --> 00:42:52.760 pictures Shoegart, a bunch of other others guys, I know, sal and 512 00:42:53.440 --> 00:43:00.239 Macagliano again and John Cattery, they share all the pictures about these huge shipyards 513 00:43:00.280 --> 00:43:06.039 in China, you know, building three or four carriers in parallel and five 514 00:43:06.480 --> 00:43:10.440 cruiser sized DDGs in parallel. And part of the reasons they're able to do 515 00:43:10.480 --> 00:43:15.960 that, not just because they have four times our population and almost the same 516 00:43:16.039 --> 00:43:21.800 GDP as we do, is because of the nature of their economy, at 517 00:43:21.840 --> 00:43:28.079 least from the assistant Deputy Secretary of Defense this level is there seeing that the 518 00:43:28.119 --> 00:43:35.119 PRC gets weapons built about five to six times faster than we do. Again, 519 00:43:35.239 --> 00:43:40.119 that's and we've talked about before that our acquisitions program put the Ottomans to 520 00:43:40.239 --> 00:43:46.119 shame with its bureaucracy. So it's kind of sad that a communist country has 521 00:43:46.280 --> 00:43:52.199 a quicker cycle than we do. But they also perhaps aren't building as sophisticated 522 00:43:52.440 --> 00:43:57.639 items than we are, which is another argument altogether, but also said that 523 00:43:58.480 --> 00:44:00.760 rough but roughly the same cape ability. This is what really got me. 524 00:44:01.320 --> 00:44:06.400 The people who felt like the China for a dollar gets roughly the same capability 525 00:44:06.440 --> 00:44:14.119 that we get for twenty and you know, quality versus quantity to the side. 526 00:44:14.960 --> 00:44:19.719 If you have a country that even has just half the GDP that you 527 00:44:19.800 --> 00:44:28.960 have, those numbers are interesting to plan against, which begs the question. 528 00:44:29.559 --> 00:44:31.039 You know a lot of things we're talking about before is you don't go over 529 00:44:31.039 --> 00:44:37.880 the most efficient things is if this conversation keeps going forward and those numbers are 530 00:44:37.920 --> 00:44:42.960 even within you know, eighty percent accurate of what the actual numbers are, 531 00:44:43.400 --> 00:44:45.800 we're going to see an either their greater argument of trying to get the most 532 00:44:45.880 --> 00:44:52.239 out of every book that we have. That math is really hard if you 533 00:44:52.320 --> 00:44:57.960 run it forward for another another decade of what we've already seen in the last 534 00:44:58.039 --> 00:45:04.760 decade. I don't I don't have any answer to that. Um it's uh, 535 00:45:04.599 --> 00:45:14.719 that's some pretty tough numbers to ponder. Yeah, once again, I 536 00:45:14.719 --> 00:45:19.679 mean we keep talking like like quality solves all the all the problems. I 537 00:45:19.719 --> 00:45:22.559 mean the Chinese, among other things, they haven't. They don't spend a 538 00:45:22.599 --> 00:45:24.320 lot of money in R and D because they just steal it from from from 539 00:45:24.360 --> 00:45:28.920 the Western countries or they buy it from Western countries, you know, so 540 00:45:29.119 --> 00:45:32.960 they don't have the same costs built into their system that we have because they 541 00:45:32.960 --> 00:45:40.519 don't have to invent the the spy type radar because they've got they've got that 542 00:45:42.000 --> 00:45:46.679 from stuff they've stolen or been given. You know, it's their their approach 543 00:45:46.760 --> 00:45:52.280 to things. Uh, they don't have to they you know, they don't 544 00:45:52.360 --> 00:45:55.280 have to create new stuff. They just have to get the old stuff. 545 00:45:55.880 --> 00:45:59.719 They can make changes to it, but they can implement it a lot cheaper 546 00:45:59.719 --> 00:46:02.960 because I spend a long time in development. So uh, part of the 547 00:46:04.039 --> 00:46:07.360 question then is, well, they have a whole bunch of stuff that's and 548 00:46:07.440 --> 00:46:10.800 it maybe I don't know, seventy five percent sixty percent as good as our 549 00:46:10.840 --> 00:46:14.840 stuff, but they got more of it. So as we were talking to 550 00:46:14.840 --> 00:46:19.599 the pre show, you know, you can you can build jets like the 551 00:46:19.679 --> 00:46:22.760 Germans did with them two sixty twos, and and you know they still can't 552 00:46:22.760 --> 00:46:29.440 get shot down by uh P fifty ones. It's you know, because there 553 00:46:29.480 --> 00:46:32.519 weren't there were a lot more P fifty ones and there were uh m e 554 00:46:32.599 --> 00:46:38.239 two sixty twos, and you know, so there's a case where a slightly 555 00:46:38.440 --> 00:46:47.519 lesser quality uh uh managed to beat uh UM and a higher quality. Well, 556 00:46:47.559 --> 00:46:51.519 the Germans done much with the six two sixty two was the end all 557 00:46:51.599 --> 00:46:54.039 and be all, but it was it was an impressive aircraft for the time. 558 00:46:54.800 --> 00:46:58.360 And you know, we see the same thing with the Sherman tag against 559 00:46:58.400 --> 00:47:01.719 the tire tank or the Sherman tank. Again it's the whatever the other Grum 560 00:47:01.800 --> 00:47:07.000 and big tanks were. So you know, the numbers make make a lot 561 00:47:07.039 --> 00:47:09.159 of difference. And that was one of the ways the American way of war 562 00:47:09.440 --> 00:47:15.159 was we would just outproduce the other side. And now we got a competitor 563 00:47:15.679 --> 00:47:20.800 who am going to outproduce us? And you know something that's got to be 564 00:47:20.960 --> 00:47:23.920 a real wake up call. I would think that that we got to quit 565 00:47:24.079 --> 00:47:29.920 spending money on I was looking at the fraud wasted abuse numbers. I get 566 00:47:29.960 --> 00:47:35.880 really excited about fraud waste abuse. But when they started talking about tens of 567 00:47:35.960 --> 00:47:43.719 billions or hundreds of billions of fraud and some of these COVID nineteen giveaway programs 568 00:47:43.760 --> 00:47:46.679 we had, I get really excited because you know, when you're talking fifty 569 00:47:46.840 --> 00:47:52.599 billion or one hundred billion dollars, you've got aircraft carriers, cruisers, destroyers, 570 00:47:52.679 --> 00:47:57.039 submarines at the yin Yang and under that scenario, So you know, 571 00:47:57.239 --> 00:48:00.679 are we ever going to reclaim that money? Probably not because a lot of 572 00:48:00.679 --> 00:48:05.679 them went to corrupt the gangs and probably shifts of overseas and all kinds of 573 00:48:05.719 --> 00:48:09.360 stuff. But you know that that sort of fraud, waste abuse really irks 574 00:48:09.440 --> 00:48:12.519 me. And when then they look at the midlitary and going, well, 575 00:48:12.559 --> 00:48:15.400 you know, you guys, your house isn't cleaned or our house is a 576 00:48:15.400 --> 00:48:20.800 lot cleaner than that. Yeah, that's I could do a lot with even 577 00:48:20.800 --> 00:48:24.079 twenty five billion, But you're right, I don't think we'll ever call that 578 00:48:24.119 --> 00:48:29.159 back. So much of it has been absorbed into the underground economy. Uh, 579 00:48:29.199 --> 00:48:32.360 it's it's really disgraceful. I don't think a lot of DC really wants 580 00:48:32.400 --> 00:48:36.559 to pull the thread on that because they won't like where a lot of those 581 00:48:36.559 --> 00:48:42.159 threads lead. But one thing about the challenge from China and a lot of 582 00:48:42.159 --> 00:48:44.760 this, you know the barn, the horse has already left the barn, 583 00:48:44.840 --> 00:48:46.519 but we can close the gate so that more horses don't get out of the 584 00:48:46.559 --> 00:48:54.079 barn. What I've liked so far that I've seen, Unfortunately, two of 585 00:48:54.119 --> 00:48:59.599 the really big advocates in the House of Representatives for the Navy. We're on 586 00:48:59.639 --> 00:49:04.719 the dimmer crat side of the House, Elaine Lauria who was defeated in the 587 00:49:04.760 --> 00:49:09.320 general and Mike Gallagher of Wisconsin on the Republican side of the House. Who 588 00:49:09.320 --> 00:49:14.360 you know, he's still in Congress, but he is really good in a 589 00:49:14.400 --> 00:49:19.559 lot of areas. So leadership has repurposed him in another area. They had 590 00:49:19.760 --> 00:49:23.679 his Select Committee on China. I think he's look, he's heading in some 591 00:49:23.719 --> 00:49:30.480 directions. I like, for instance, he's made he pulled some really low 592 00:49:30.519 --> 00:49:37.960 hanging fruit in a vineyard that I think is very very productive. And that's 593 00:49:38.039 --> 00:49:45.280 the non obvious national security threats that China has inside our own lifelines. He 594 00:49:45.400 --> 00:49:53.239 had a real interesting bipartisan press conference maybe a week and a half ago in 595 00:49:53.320 --> 00:50:00.360 New York City where they started to close down some of the Chinese police stations 596 00:50:00.360 --> 00:50:06.800 that they have in the US, kind of a more direct version of what 597 00:50:07.480 --> 00:50:10.360 they're slowly being shut down over the country. There's still a few the Confucius 598 00:50:10.440 --> 00:50:21.599 institutes where the Communist Party of China has the ability to threaten and intimidate Chinese 599 00:50:21.679 --> 00:50:24.599 nationals that happened to be in the US. That does lead you down to 600 00:50:25.280 --> 00:50:30.320 a point that makes some people uncomfortable, but it's just a plain reality. 601 00:50:30.920 --> 00:50:36.760 A lot of the advances that Chinese have an industry that competes with US and 602 00:50:36.760 --> 00:50:40.960 it transfers into the national security arena can be things direct, such as Laurel 603 00:50:42.039 --> 00:50:50.599 Aerospace teaching them how to MERV missiles by quote using sending different more than one 604 00:50:50.639 --> 00:50:54.880 satellite up on a rocket that's called a MIRV, something that directed at or 605 00:50:54.920 --> 00:51:00.920 indirected. The fact that for decades I know because I knew a couple of 606 00:51:00.960 --> 00:51:04.280 them when I was in undergrad back in the eighties. The people who are 607 00:51:04.320 --> 00:51:07.280 Republic of China since some of their best students to the United States to study, 608 00:51:07.800 --> 00:51:13.440 and they're not studying underwater basket weaving. They're not majoring in compared to 609 00:51:13.599 --> 00:51:21.480 French literature, they're not majoring in interpretive dance. They're majoring in mathematics, 610 00:51:21.519 --> 00:51:30.760 physics, chemistry, engineering, all the hard majors, especially in our major 611 00:51:30.800 --> 00:51:37.719 resource institutions at the graduate level. People who've been to college graduations recently, 612 00:51:38.039 --> 00:51:45.440 they've seen it. So we are in these billets are finite. Anybody has 613 00:51:45.559 --> 00:51:51.360 people like me and their family who are applying for graduate level positions, there's 614 00:51:51.360 --> 00:51:55.840 a finite number. They're highly competitive, and we are having people from the 615 00:51:55.840 --> 00:52:01.599 People's Republic of China studying in these dual use technology areas that have family and 616 00:52:01.679 --> 00:52:07.239 connections back home that the Communist Party uses against them, and they take that 617 00:52:07.360 --> 00:52:12.480 knowledge base home that and they have some great universities over there as well. 618 00:52:12.719 --> 00:52:17.760 They send a lot of people to universities and the UK, Germany, Italy, 619 00:52:19.400 --> 00:52:24.199 Spain and Australia to do similar things. And if we are serious about 620 00:52:25.159 --> 00:52:29.599 the competition, we need to look at more than who has this number of 621 00:52:29.639 --> 00:52:35.440 ships and aircraft. We need to look at the intellectual infrastructure. And just 622 00:52:35.480 --> 00:52:43.519 like you wouldn't want American shipyards building submarines for the People's Republican China, why 623 00:52:43.559 --> 00:52:52.920 would we want Harvard Stanford, John Hopkins, UCLA, University of Texas at 624 00:52:52.920 --> 00:52:58.800 Austin MIT educating the people that are going to be developed being quantum computers, 625 00:52:59.559 --> 00:53:05.960 as is engineering, chemical engineering, bioengineering, genetic engineering, and then having 626 00:53:05.960 --> 00:53:10.440 them take that education home as opposed to hear That's the next direction I would 627 00:53:10.480 --> 00:53:15.679 really like to see that committee take because it looks like they're going to open 628 00:53:15.719 --> 00:53:22.480 the aperture a bit to look at a variety of things that do control internally 629 00:53:22.119 --> 00:53:30.239 that can stop us from adding to what alway already is a significant China Communist 630 00:53:30.239 --> 00:53:36.800 Party challenge. Yeah, I think it's when we had Dan chang on talking 631 00:53:36.840 --> 00:53:40.920 about his book Cyber Dragon, I think it is, you know, he 632 00:53:43.119 --> 00:53:50.320 he just scratched the surface of the way the Chinese approach cyber warfare and getting 633 00:53:50.400 --> 00:53:53.920 into a hacking. I mean, the Russians doing the same thing, and 634 00:53:54.000 --> 00:53:58.199 so a lot of other countries do too. But the China's got I mean, 635 00:53:58.239 --> 00:54:00.400 they can their solution to every problems to throw a lot of people at 636 00:54:00.440 --> 00:54:06.599 it, and they you know, they don't just have a team of one 637 00:54:06.639 --> 00:54:13.039 hundred or five hundred folks trying to crack every system they can find an US 638 00:54:13.440 --> 00:54:16.639 They've got, They've got thousands of people doing that. And uh, you 639 00:54:16.679 --> 00:54:23.159 know, we we continue to do business. A lot of people continue to 640 00:54:23.159 --> 00:54:25.880 do business with China, and a lot of people that are doing business with 641 00:54:25.960 --> 00:54:32.639 China are people in our in our computer cyber world. And you know that. 642 00:54:32.880 --> 00:54:37.440 I hope Gallagher and and at all are looking into that too, because 643 00:54:37.440 --> 00:54:45.280 we've got to stop pretending that, uh, if we are nice to China 644 00:54:45.360 --> 00:54:47.960 that they're somehow going to change their minds about about how the world works, 645 00:54:49.000 --> 00:54:52.119 and they're going to adopt the They're gonna they're really going to come true believers 646 00:54:52.199 --> 00:54:58.039 in the existing world order rather than trying to impose the world order they want 647 00:54:58.079 --> 00:55:01.000 to see, which puts China in the middle, in the middle Kingdom as 648 00:55:01.000 --> 00:55:09.320 they used to be a zillion years ago. Yeah, I think that those 649 00:55:09.360 --> 00:55:15.440 people have lost the argument, though they're they're still making it. Still see 650 00:55:15.480 --> 00:55:20.599 them out there the South China and the unfortunate thing is, and we've talked 651 00:55:20.639 --> 00:55:22.920 about it a little bit over here during the years. One of my hobby 652 00:55:23.320 --> 00:55:28.519 horses civil service reform at the Department of State. There's still a lot of 653 00:55:28.519 --> 00:55:32.440 people the Department State who don't know what time it is specifically related to China. 654 00:55:32.719 --> 00:55:38.000 And these are career people. You can't ask them to go pursue excellence 655 00:55:38.039 --> 00:55:42.559 in a different career field. They're stuck there. But they are a weight. 656 00:55:43.840 --> 00:55:47.880 And we've seen this in the utter complete failure of our diplomats and the 657 00:55:47.920 --> 00:55:53.519 island nations of the South and Southwest Pacific. Recently we started to push back 658 00:55:53.559 --> 00:55:58.480 on it, but we're a decade late on pushing back against what China has 659 00:55:58.519 --> 00:56:04.400 been doing. There, they're a little more realistic, but they're embedded in 660 00:56:04.440 --> 00:56:12.119 our government's permanent, ruly nomencultura. There is still the nice China theory that 661 00:56:13.199 --> 00:56:17.840 has more weight than it really should, and there's kind of even on with 662 00:56:17.880 --> 00:56:23.719 the China Hawks. What I've been really frustrated with recently because I think it's 663 00:56:23.800 --> 00:56:28.679 I understand the argument, and if you wanted to pay my consulting fee, 664 00:56:28.760 --> 00:56:32.880 I could make it, But I don't think it survives the following question, 665 00:56:34.440 --> 00:56:37.760 and that is a lot of people are making the argument, as we are 666 00:56:38.239 --> 00:56:47.159 aiding aiding Ukraine in their battle against the Russians, that somehow that effort is 667 00:56:47.239 --> 00:56:57.280 going to prevent us, our distract us from trying to match the rising challenge 668 00:56:57.280 --> 00:57:00.360 from China. I think we can walk and chew gum at the same time, 669 00:57:00.400 --> 00:57:02.119 which will trigger some of those people because they don't like that phrase. 670 00:57:04.079 --> 00:57:09.719 But I think two things are true. One, what Ukraine needs to fight 671 00:57:09.760 --> 00:57:21.679 the Russians is a different set of tools than we need to effectively address what 672 00:57:21.840 --> 00:57:28.880 is an aerospace and maritime challenge in the Western Pacific. And two, I'm 673 00:57:28.880 --> 00:57:34.440 old enough to remember not just before twenty fourteen, but afterwards, how everybody 674 00:57:34.639 --> 00:57:39.159 was saying that, you know, the United States and her allies face two 675 00:57:39.199 --> 00:57:45.039 major challenges. One was the People's Republic of China and one is Russia. 676 00:57:45.400 --> 00:57:52.480 Well, we're at a relatively small cost to what could happen if they win. 677 00:57:53.480 --> 00:58:02.960 We are keeping distracted and wearing down the war fighting capability of the Russians 678 00:58:04.000 --> 00:58:09.800 in a war they started in a different country. That if we really wanted 679 00:58:09.840 --> 00:58:15.519 to go back to twenty three February of twenty twenty two, when the war 680 00:58:15.639 --> 00:58:20.599 started, and we could look at the damage that's been done to the Russian 681 00:58:20.639 --> 00:58:28.760 military and more importantly, their ability to project power anywhere else but Ukraine for 682 00:58:29.039 --> 00:58:34.639 the next decade at least, I could argue even longer because of their demographics, 683 00:58:34.760 --> 00:58:38.719 then we should be doing both. And you can go into the moral 684 00:58:38.760 --> 00:58:44.679 and philosophical reasons why. But if you just want to play a very cold 685 00:58:44.679 --> 00:58:49.880 eyed view of things, that Russia and China were always going to be getting 686 00:58:49.920 --> 00:58:53.519 in bed together anyway, I don't accept that argument that they would do it 687 00:58:53.559 --> 00:59:00.039 any less if Russia was able to take the territorial games that they wanted in 688 00:59:00.159 --> 00:59:05.840 Ukraine. I think that if you just want to take a cold look at 689 00:59:05.840 --> 00:59:10.079 the situation, not only can we do both, we probably should do both, 690 00:59:10.360 --> 00:59:14.960 if for no other reason that I think you have a better odd to 691 00:59:15.039 --> 00:59:20.840 creating a more favorable strategic position for the United States having just to look at 692 00:59:21.400 --> 00:59:25.360 as opposed to point seven five China, point two five Russia, if we 693 00:59:25.360 --> 00:59:30.320 can do point nine China, point one Russia, that would be to our 694 00:59:30.360 --> 00:59:35.360 game. Yeah, it's kind of hard to argue with that. I mean, 695 00:59:35.360 --> 00:59:40.480 it's and you know, I'm I'm I'm interested that China is William apparently 696 00:59:40.559 --> 00:59:46.119 to talk to the Russians about, you know, giving them some help, 697 00:59:47.199 --> 00:59:53.639 because I think China needs that distraction too. I think China says, you 698 00:59:53.679 --> 00:59:59.039 know, if if if we don't help out the Russians and they and they 699 00:59:59.199 --> 01:00:06.400 actually lose this war they started, then the West can turn their attention to 700 01:00:06.519 --> 01:00:13.199 us in a much stronger fashion. So the enemy of my enemy is my 701 01:00:13.320 --> 01:00:16.199 friend temporarily. So I'll, you know, let's look at what we can 702 01:00:16.239 --> 01:00:22.480 do to assist the Russians. Same thing with Iran. I mean, Iran 703 01:00:22.960 --> 01:00:28.000 is obviously trying to provide and does provide stuff to the Russians because they view 704 01:00:28.079 --> 01:00:30.840 the West as their enemy, and the Russians are fighting the West, which 705 01:00:31.159 --> 01:00:35.679 you know, we all thought Russia may someday become a Western country, but 706 01:00:35.760 --> 01:00:39.599 I clearly I'm that seems to be a fit out of the question these days. 707 01:00:40.719 --> 01:00:45.440 Speak. Yeah, there were a few generations from that, I think. 708 01:00:45.360 --> 01:00:49.800 Yeah. Speaking of which, though, you've talked about the Sea of 709 01:00:49.800 --> 01:00:52.800 azof in in our pre show thing, and I'm sure you want to mention 710 01:00:52.800 --> 01:00:59.440 that because that's kind of an important topic. Yeah, I um, this 711 01:00:59.519 --> 01:01:04.639 is not this of things that triggered soul today. But we've all seen it 712 01:01:04.679 --> 01:01:07.440 before and we've talked about before. But I would encourage everybody to look at 713 01:01:09.480 --> 01:01:15.039 a chart slash map depending upon your confession of the Black Sea. Territorial sea 714 01:01:15.079 --> 01:01:22.760 clanes are identified stuff. And before twenty fourteen, not only did Ukraine have 715 01:01:22.000 --> 01:01:31.280 almost twice the seabed of the Black Sea that in Russia did, it also 716 01:01:31.639 --> 01:01:37.000 had two thirds of the Sea of Asof Based upon now, if Russia was 717 01:01:37.039 --> 01:01:40.159 able to maintain her territorial gains, you get one hundred percent of the Sea 718 01:01:40.159 --> 01:01:47.800 of Asof And would people are where you drew the line as opposed to Ukraine 719 01:01:47.920 --> 01:01:57.480 having twice the square squire footage of seabed in the Black Seed in Russia, 720 01:01:57.639 --> 01:02:00.360 it would have maybe twenty percent of what Russia have, even less than what 721 01:02:00.440 --> 01:02:07.760 Bulgaria has. And you know that has huge implications because everybody talks about aggressive 722 01:02:07.800 --> 01:02:12.719 war to for taking land, and you know they're talking about dry land. 723 01:02:12.760 --> 01:02:15.280 But I think, especially in our modern era, that we need to think 724 01:02:15.360 --> 01:02:22.039 more about land is land, whether it's covered with grass or covered with one 725 01:02:22.079 --> 01:02:28.000 hundred meters of water. And the fact that all that seabed there is are 726 01:02:28.119 --> 01:02:32.239 hydro carbons, whether it's gas or oil. In a large parts of the 727 01:02:32.280 --> 01:02:38.679 world, we're on just almost to the point of making economically viable mining the 728 01:02:38.719 --> 01:02:43.760 seabed for rare minerals. If everybody wants an electric or a hybrid car, 729 01:02:44.079 --> 01:02:45.760 we're gonna have to do that, because if you want to get those rare 730 01:02:45.800 --> 01:02:47.960 metals, you're not going to get it where we have it right now. 731 01:02:51.119 --> 01:02:59.840 You also are athwart trade routes. Whether you know nations like Japan, Asians 732 01:02:59.880 --> 01:03:05.719 like the UK, they can't feed themselves. They have to have ships moving 733 01:03:06.400 --> 01:03:10.239 food across water in order to be able to deliver food. And you also 734 01:03:10.320 --> 01:03:20.039 have a Chinese tie in one of our leaders leaders. Jordian Slip, one 735 01:03:20.079 --> 01:03:22.800 of my readers over on Twitter reminded me and I think it may actually have 736 01:03:22.840 --> 01:03:32.119 been Salmar Cagliano with my earlier today that the eastern part of the Black Sea 737 01:03:34.039 --> 01:03:38.599 is the terminus of China's rail links to Europe. So China does have an 738 01:03:38.639 --> 01:03:43.960 interest and whoever owns that seabed, and you look at the South China Sea. 739 01:03:44.440 --> 01:03:49.679 For reasons best explained by people at the State Department and people who've been 740 01:03:49.719 --> 01:03:52.360 our Secretary of State for the last twenty years, we have allowed China to 741 01:03:52.400 --> 01:04:00.800 do a huge land grab in the South China Sea. We that's just I 742 01:04:00.880 --> 01:04:04.519 encourage people. Look at the globe, look at the map, look at 743 01:04:04.559 --> 01:04:11.880 what we have given them effective control over with minimal interference. And people have 744 01:04:12.000 --> 01:04:15.760 all I know, regular listeners of mid Rats have heard this for decades. 745 01:04:16.559 --> 01:04:23.559 But everybody says that the international system we have today is all based upon the 746 01:04:23.599 --> 01:04:28.960 post World War Two era of the United States Navy guaranteeing access to the open 747 01:04:29.039 --> 01:04:34.039 seas for everybody. That's not true anymore. That's not true by what's happened 748 01:04:34.039 --> 01:04:43.400 in the South China Sea. That's also going to be true should Russia when 749 01:04:43.880 --> 01:04:47.840 whatever definition to win that is in Ukraine and is able to seize so much 750 01:04:47.840 --> 01:04:57.480 square footage of the territorial waters in the Black Seat, and that should give 751 01:04:57.519 --> 01:05:01.159 everybody pause. They need to stop looking just at land. You need to 752 01:05:01.159 --> 01:05:10.800 look at the sea. Technology and trade is such that allowing hostile nations to 753 01:05:12.000 --> 01:05:20.159 grab territory at sea is should be seen just as important and critical in the 754 01:05:20.239 --> 01:05:28.159 international world as somebody rolling tank rolling tanks across eastern Ukraine to see those resources 755 01:05:28.199 --> 01:05:30.840 there. And you know, you can say, well, what about the 756 01:05:30.960 --> 01:05:38.000 UN what about international law? Yeah, what about it? It makes no 757 01:05:38.079 --> 01:05:44.639 impact when the international when nobody respects international law and the United Nations has become 758 01:05:44.679 --> 01:05:50.639 the self parending organization, you have to go back to other forms of enforcing 759 01:05:50.679 --> 01:06:01.239 international norms. That involves large gray ships and leaders and nations that are willing 760 01:06:01.320 --> 01:06:06.840 to not step back anymore. That has its own problems, But that was 761 01:06:06.880 --> 01:06:11.400 one of the things I would like for people to look at more, is 762 01:06:11.800 --> 01:06:16.679 look at these nations where you have these conflicts. What's happening with the area 763 01:06:17.000 --> 01:06:23.400 of sea, whether that's continental shelf, exclusive economic zones. You know, 764 01:06:23.559 --> 01:06:29.960 what's there under the water, whether it's hydrocard carbons, whether it's metals and 765 01:06:30.039 --> 01:06:35.599 nodules on the seabed, whether it's fish, or whether it's big natural gas. 766 01:06:36.639 --> 01:06:44.480 Internet protocol are other type of pipelines and cables that are going across. 767 01:06:44.159 --> 01:06:47.639 It's just as important as what's happening in shore. It's just hard to visualize. 768 01:06:49.559 --> 01:06:54.199 Yeah, I know we're getting we've already gone over. But there's a 769 01:06:54.239 --> 01:06:59.719 really good report put up by the Royal United Services Institute for Defense and Security 770 01:06:59.719 --> 01:07:06.800 Study's on illegal, unreported, unregulated fishing trends UM and China. I don't 771 01:07:08.280 --> 01:07:12.239 I remember exactly if they get mentioned there by name, but you know, 772 01:07:12.320 --> 01:07:15.239 all you need to do is follow the Chinese fishing fleet and realize how aggressive 773 01:07:15.320 --> 01:07:26.760 they are at claiming chunks of the of the world's food and other assets for 774 01:07:26.800 --> 01:07:31.519 themselves. And they don't do it in the in the uh, let's save 775 01:07:31.679 --> 01:07:39.440 enough seed corn for next year's crop. I mean, they're absolutely devastating fish 776 01:07:39.480 --> 01:07:44.400 stocks in the South China Sea and they're going because they've done that, they're 777 01:07:44.679 --> 01:07:49.119 they're in they're far the far world. You know, they're in the Pacific, 778 01:07:49.199 --> 01:07:55.480 off the Galapagos, in waters that probably are Ecuadorian or very close to 779 01:07:55.480 --> 01:08:01.559 Equadorian waters. Uh it is, you know, a tragedy that they're allowed 780 01:08:01.559 --> 01:08:05.719 to do this. And as you say, international law is only as good 781 01:08:05.800 --> 01:08:12.719 as the enforcement mechanism, and the enforcement mechanism unless the US does it. 782 01:08:12.880 --> 01:08:16.359 I don't know of anybody who's going out there and or the US supports people 783 01:08:16.600 --> 01:08:19.880 who who who will go out there and say, Okay, enough is enough. 784 01:08:19.920 --> 01:08:24.279 You've got to you've got to knock this off. You're you're ruining the 785 01:08:24.319 --> 01:08:28.359 world for the rest of us. And China is they get away with a 786 01:08:28.399 --> 01:08:31.399 lot of stuff they're you know, they're they're viewed as a developing country for 787 01:08:32.239 --> 01:08:38.439 the forgiveness of a lot of their environmental damage that they do. And uh 788 01:08:38.479 --> 01:08:42.760 it, and you know they get they get away with the slave labor stuff 789 01:08:42.760 --> 01:08:46.119 that they've got going on. Uh you know, it's all you know, 790 01:08:46.159 --> 01:08:50.159 it's you're you're accusing us falsely. They get you know, they they're just 791 01:08:50.279 --> 01:08:55.119 outrageous in the way they lie about what they're actually up to. And it 792 01:08:55.279 --> 01:09:00.560 is I keep saying this a Chinese their bullies and and they you know, 793 01:09:00.640 --> 01:09:04.640 they lie in their own interest. There's nothing unusual about that in countries, 794 01:09:04.640 --> 01:09:12.720 but China is they need to be challenged on every front, and you know 795 01:09:12.800 --> 01:09:15.319 that includes, as we said earlier, cutting off some of the trade and 796 01:09:15.439 --> 01:09:18.520 other deals that they've been allowed to get away thinking that we were going to 797 01:09:18.520 --> 01:09:26.840 somehow co opt them into the existing world order. And that's my speech for 798 01:09:26.840 --> 01:09:30.479 the day. And well we both scientificated, which is pretty good for our 799 01:09:30.760 --> 01:09:34.439 free for all formats, and I guess we can wrap it up there. 800 01:09:34.760 --> 01:09:39.439 I just let everybody know we have a couple of guests line up, but 801 01:09:39.520 --> 01:09:45.159 they just need to refine what week best works for their schedule. So our 802 01:09:45.199 --> 01:09:48.880 next show, because we could go another hour, we may do another free 803 01:09:48.880 --> 01:09:51.600 for all, but I think next week we have chances of one of our 804 01:09:51.640 --> 01:09:54.920 guests will be able to make it, if not brought to slide to the 805 01:09:55.039 --> 01:10:00.640 right some So I think we've run out of our leave. So Rats is 806 01:10:00.640 --> 01:10:03.560 going to be back for a while. Uh and UM, it's always great 807 01:10:03.560 --> 01:10:08.560 to talk talk to Uh, talk to you Mark and Uh. It's great 808 01:10:08.600 --> 01:10:12.439 to see the folks in the chat room and I appreciate everybody join us for 809 01:10:12.560 --> 01:10:15.680 another edition of mid Rats. And until next time, I hope everybody has 810 01:10:15.680 --> 01:10:31.239 a great Navy Day. Cheers YEA thanks for being here today. Everyone to 811 01:10:32.239 --> 01:10:44.680 having Mike Maloney want to marry me, and all your being to blame, 812 01:10:45.960 --> 01:10:55.520 love me, silly folding, all of the same. It's a long way, 813 01:10:58.520 --> 01:11:08.880 It's a long way. It's a long way to Differany be greening I 814 01:11:09.319 --> 01:11:19.880 know, don't by piccondillywell left talk to where it's a long long way to 815 01:11:20.079 --> 01:11:25.199 differ. It's but my life b