The views and opinions expressed by the guests of Sasquatch Experience do not necessarily reflect
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As always, listener discretion is advised. We got someone or something crawling around
out here? Does a legend walk among us working in the forests of our
world? Did you see what it was? Was it a person or an
animal? Or I can't go. All I know is that my vener light
came on and I did that with the glen and see this thing running across
the yard. A good fight man or nothing works like a man. I
don't know what it was. For over fifteen years, we've talked with scientists,
researchers, investigators, and witnesses trying to gain insight and truth around the
distance of this mysterious entity. Jesus Que, Carol, Hello, get somebody
out here. What's going announce their invective about six foot? I don't know,
easy announce there, Yes, I'm walking right away. Oh okay,
hand on her yarn? Yeah, got you're big? Okay, what's he
doing in your yard? We're gonna move. You join us as we continue
into the investigation of the Sasquatch Experience. Well, good evening, everybody.
Welcome to Sasquatch Experience for Monday. What is this March twenty fifth, twenty
twenty four. Guys. We've had a lot go on today behind the scenes
to put this show together. I mean, we put a lot into tonight's
show and hopefully it goes as smooth as it was supposed to. Matt unfortunately
got called into duty tonight, so we lost Matt this evening. He was
really looking forward to the show. So we send our apologies and matp be
safe out there, my friend. He's out there on a call as he
is a law enforcement officer, so we always wish him the best, and
particularly tonight as he's got a difficult assignment ahead of him. And then Henry
May is being ravaged down south by some severe weather and he couldn't keep a
connection if his life depended on it. Therefore, we lost Henry tonight as
well. So it's just the three of us, the three Amigos, the
three Stooges, the three and apparently tonight's also a musical. What the hell?
So there you are, guys. Tonight is a really, really a
special show. For me because this is a person w D forty, that
frickin chairman for the love of christ one the chair. Yeah, that's awful,
that's awful. Anyhow, this show titled Simply Freeman about Paul Freeman Paul
Freeman's footage, and this is where I was hoping Henry was here tonight because
Henry has been around the mill probably along the same time as Paul Freeman,
and had a lot more insight. So hopefully as the weather clears up,
he may join us. But where we're at is what it is. But
years ago, maz Adams and I interviewed Michael Freeman, who's the son of
Paul Freeman, the gentleman we're talking about tonight, for an episode of our
podcast at the time called The Nocturnal Journal, and it was a real intimate
look into the life of his father, Paul. And you know, something
special about a son being able to reminisce about his dad, who's really a
legend in this field, you know, almost as big as the Sasquatch legends
himself. Oftentimes, we have built up these folklore around the investigators who have
been part of this story. I mean, without them, it's just a
bunch of people going around in the woods looking for a big, hairy ape
loses a little bit of the romanticism. And guys, if you think about
it, the human experience is just that our quest for you know, knowledge
and adventure, and it's just not you know, this research isn't the same
without the colorful personalities that have been a part of it even well before we
came onto the scene. But an avid hunter and outdoorsman, Paul's life changed
in June of nineteen eighty two when he encountered what he believed to be assassquatch
in the Blue Mountains of Washington State. After the encounter, Paul became a
man obsessed with proving the existence of the creature, and during the eighties into
the nineties worked with researchers such as Vance Orchard and West Summerlind stomping the Blue
Mountain region, finding footprints and following up on citing reports pretty much what we
do today, and that was you know, he got a good fifteen year
run and then unfortunately he at the age of fifty nine due to complications with
diabetes. The most remarkable thing about Paul was that on one August day in
nineteen ninety two August twentieth, nineteen ninety two, in an area known as
the d Duck Springs Watershed. He followed the footprints that he found in the
ground. With his Sony camcorder in hand, he filmed the almost eight minute
video of what could very well be a sasquatch. Today we call the Freeman
Footage, and tonight it's all about talking about this legendary researcher, his footage
and more so, we got a good show lined up before we dive into
this. We do have some housekeeping notes. Come see us this Saturday at
the pen Ohio Paranormal Conference at the Hickory VFW from ten to six. Five
speakers Tony Lavorne, Diamond, Jim Boardwine, David Kerrie Rupert, Robert Solomon,
and Christine Soltis with more than forty vendors, and Amy Boo, our
dear friend Amy Boo will be the mc ME. Matt and Baker will be
there to represent Sasquatch experience, and we'll be doing some live streaming. So
stop by and say hi. We could talk more about this show tonight.
You can come and abuse us, beat us up, whatever you like to
do, but we'll be there from ten to six. Yeah, seriously,
bring your stories. We do like to listen and get them, map them,
and go out and research them. In fact, that's why starting on
April eighth, we're returning to a bi weekly format, which is being done
to take more time to make bonus content, spend more time involved in the
research. We've got a lot going on. I know, Matt and I
are really hitting the woods heavy. We got some great projects going up with
our friends at Small Town Monsters and some other assorted assignments. We just got
a lot going on. So I think I've talked enough. Oh wait a
minute, just a couple more things, Matt Arner. Next week we'll be
on Sasquatch Watch Radio at nine pm over on Facebook, you know, just
running contemporary, and that night we'll have Chester More with us, long time
researcher and author of the book Bigfoot South, which is now available for purchase
at the website Bigfootsouth dot com. And as much as we love live streaming,
Sasquatch Experience is still a podcast. That's where we make our money.
And if you want to go watch bat live and listen to us in the
podcast, we're okay with that too, But either way, we're glad you're
here. So, folks, welcome to tonight's show. A little bit about
Paul Freeman. I'm gonna take a break from talking vance Baker. I'm gonna
let you guys go at it for a minute. What questions do you got
or what are your feelings about this legendary researcher. Well, Bake, if
you want to go first, and if you steal my questions or my thoughts,
I'm gonna have to hit you. But you can go first. Well,
gee, thanks there threatening me and all that. Okay, Well,
with the with him, it seemed like he spent a lot of time in
you know, the field and things like that over the ten years. Was
the footage the only thing that we got from that, or did he have
other other times that there were other big, big evidence. Yeah, I'm
glad you brought that up because Paul Freeman. Paul, and I think it's
because aware he lived. You know, here in the East Coast, we
have a hard time getting footprints because of the type of soil we have.
It's very rocky, hard soil, not really conducive of getting footprints unless there's
mud or something that's kind of mucking it up or sand. However, out
in the Pacific Northwest, it's a lot of volcanic ash. And as I
did some research today into this, because I had a lot of things that
I was doing, there is a something in the substrate called lois. Yes,
it's called lois, and it's akin to what they call glacial flour,
which is very fine particles of sediment. And these particles of sediment are great
for retaining detail. So that's why Paul was able to get so many footprint
castings and so on and so forth. Because of that substrate out there,
he was able to really get some good, decent impressions. And Paul had
a lot of foot casts. In fact, many people that we know.
Gwen Purcell are good friend over at Gotten Knockers, also one of our sponsors.
She has quite a few that she was able to procure for Mike Freeman.
I know Mike was selling quite a bit. I think Dave Groves,
another one of our friends, had some footprints from himself. I mean,
there's an awful lot of footprints that all was able to cast. And I
think because of that that gave people some doubt to his credibility because here's this
guy going out and every time he's going out, he's seeing footprints, he's
getting footprints. And if that's the case, well, no shit, I
mean he's he's got the perfect soil composition out there. And the other thing
you have to remember in this area, there's no roads. There's no man
made roads. They're all kind of nature cut paths and forest roads, but
they're not pavement like, it's no wonder that he's able to find so many
of these footprint castings. And also keep in mind we've had Jenny and Jamie
King, and one of the things they've always talked about for since I've known
them was having a micro study area, an area you consistently went back to,
spent a lot of time at, and spent the time doing the investigation.
And essentially what they've done Wes summerlind and Vance Orchard and Paul As they
took this area and made it a micro research area in a way. Maybe
not micro in the truest fence, but that area was their research area.
That's where they went and that's where they spent their time. So it's no
wonder they were able to get so much information and evidence from that spot.
Well, the answer the question. You know. The thing with what you
said was is you know they talk about people, they get too much evidence.
But the thing is, though, was that's why I hate reality TV.
Like I like a lot of people on the TV. I've talked to
them, We've hung out with them. They're good people. But like it's
kind of like a fish and show. You know, those guys didn't sit
there half hour and catch nine humongous trout. They were their twelve hours straight
and they copulated, compiled. Either way, there's no fish population, you
know. That's that's how they're letting the mesh. Now it's not weights anymore,
okay, anyway, oh so like so like anyway, it's like you
watch a lot of these shows and it's like at the end of the night,
we have these fifteen bags of evidence, twenty seven tracks and I know,
but like if you have a got you know, and you know this
as much as I do, Sean is we have a little area that's just
land I own. You get could know that area. I know when dare
have been in certain spots. I know when things have changed. I know
where certain sounds are coming from. So like the same with having a you
know, even if it's you know, three acres or it's twenty, you
know, something's been there, you know. Yeah, good point man.
You know. Unfortunately, like you said at the top of the there is
some serious weather going through where Henry is at, and unfortunately he's not able
to be with us at least currently. But the question I'll throw out to
the two of you is, and this is a question being asked because I
want to respond to it, regarding the Freeman film, at what point in
the books that have been written, do you suppose the year or at least
the era in which the tracks were noted that they are in line with each
other as they are seen. And the reason why I bring that up is
because Paulsey's tracks, he's recording it on his VHS recorder, his Sony recorder,
and he casts the Prince and then he turns the camera back on,
and I noticed the four prints that he casted are directly in line with each
other. But yet he never once said anything of ooh, look, these
tracks are in line with each other. And I'm curious to know when did
that observation come about in the genre of bigfoot research as far as tracks being
in line with each other? As they're discovered. I want to say,
probably you go back to the construction site with Jerry Crewe when they were finding
all the footprints around the heavy equipment out in California, probably in the fifties
would be when I was first exposed to know large concentrated amounts of footprints.
You think I remember, feet don't excite me, like I don't get really
excited about footprint impressions. At the end of the day, there are very
large footprint impressions. I don't like feet, so therefore I don't have an
interest in big footprints. The things that interest me are the hair samples that
come back, unidentified sounds. Even tree knocking doesn't get me that excited.
So it's just, you know, a personal preference. You ask good question,
my answer, and I could be wrong, and if anybody says I'm
wrong, you could put it in the comments. I'd probably say in the
fifties with the Jerry Crue prints, Okay, that's interesting within itself. But
he never once mentioned the fact that ooh, in the video, ooh,
look, these tracks are in line and unfortunately, being that it's low quality
VHS, and I get it right, he had the tape measure laid out
and he said, oh, this footprint is nine inches long. But he
also made the comment that because as you watch the video you see tracks moving
in both directions up the hill and down the hill, and whether or not
the sediment in which these footprints were left in were very soft or not,
they're pretty deep impressions. I you know, you're talking a half inch maybe
an inch in some of the cases that he was tak making the videos of.
But it's impressive because I don't think you or I could leave an impression
that deep in that type of sentiment. So well, just because you happened
to print the foot just because you happened to bring up the footprints, I
wanted to notate, and one of our listeners, Dan had commented, but
I also wanted to notate that in ninety one January fourteenth, nineteen ninety one,
called the Mill Creek Road footprints, they call it the seven mile tracks.
Paul Freeman and them followed prints for two miles or a man named Greg
May followed them for a cumulative six to eight miles of tracks for these prints,
which is probably longer than I think the London track away which they've been
talking about for a long time. But then Dan points out there was one
point where the FBI identified his footprints as an unknown species, which back then
was a pretty big deal. Yeah. I mean, the problem that we
always run into with Paul Freeman, and I think it's an unfair problem,
but it's a problem of his own devices, is that so many people were
skeptical of his character because, either through memory issues or other situations, she
just wasn't able to recall specifics of his sightings, or sometimes the details would
change. You know what, I hate to tell you something, folks.
You tell a story long enough, sometimes the details just change. Sometimes you
add little embellishments to make it a little bit more exciting. You know,
Baker bust my balls all the time because you know, tell a story for
a long time, a Baker's like, well, I don't remember it that
way. Well, you know, we have to add a little color.
As long as the concept in the core of it remains true, the specific
he said, she said, is it really that important? Right, Like,
as long as the core of it remained, you know what's the difference.
And I think a lot of times that gets broad into people who are
colorful, people who are very creative people that have to keep it entertaining from
themselves in order to tell a good story. Well, I think that rolls
both ways, though, because there's some times where I'm telling a story and
you have fill in the blanks, the specifics because I don't remember somebody's name,
or like we were in Tennessee, No, we were in Kentucky,
you know, And because to me, the core is to get you to
know what the conversation was, where his is. He wants to make sure
you understand all the facts of the conversation, almost make sure you're paying attention.
Yeah. Yeah, But I also believe that a lot of times these
people tell the same story over and over again and it becomes robotic that they
shed part as much as they add parts. Hey, I'm not going to
mention that it was raining today because it wasn't important to the core of the
story. But if the ground was wet, and that's how come I got
the better tracks, and I need to mention it was raining, you know
where it rained earlier. Same with the fact as we talk about you said
about the video was is you know, he didn't measure the difference between the
feet and the different things you got to realizes sometimes in the beginning of some
of these investigators, it isn't like today where I can look on the internet
or I can call Matt Arner and go, hey, man, how would
you if you had six foot prints near a house and you were looking for
a suspect? How would you handle those prints? And a police officer could
walk you through the steps? Back then, they were kind of shooting from
the hit, you know, and like, so there might have been moments
in the video he's like, wasn't important, And then you know, two
years later he's like, oh shit, I did measure that. Here it's
in a magic notebook. I forgot now, or hey it didn't you know,
or hey, I just didn't bring it up because it wasn't as important
in the front of my mind as much as it's in front of Vance's mind.
Point I want to make, and you said it very well, is
that they were shooting from the hip. They didn't have a Meldrum at that
point. Meldrum doesn't come along till ninety five ninety six. That's doctor Jeff
Meldrim. They did have Grover Krantz, but Grover Krantz was a you know,
not a professor in anatomy, right. He was an anthropology professor,
so that was a little a little different speciality there, and I mean,
there's there's just so much of what Paul discovered in that area. He also
discovered a handprint, you know, which I'll try to find a picture and
post that up at some point during the show because I'm still trying to get
a copy of that. I would love to have a copy of the hammer.
I have a copy of the knuckle print, but I don't have a
copy of the handprint. I got the knuckle print and a footprint cast from
Meldrum at at Cabela's when they were having that event at Caabella's a few years
back, not the newer one, but the one way, you know,
preceding that Rare, Strange and Unusual Creature Sightings Weekend is what that was called.
Not that that matters to the overall story, but he, you know,
was able to get some prints that were very unique and that other folks
hadn't really done at the time. I mean, who who here can say
in this you know, at least the between us three panelists that you know,
how common is it for us to run into a handprint sighting? No
kidding. And the other thing is, though you look at it from his
perspective, if you want to put Meldrum pulled Framan out, put Meldrum in
his place, what if the evidence read different, maybe because Meldron might have
gone, Okay, here's the trigonometry of where the handprint is to where the
footprint is, so he might be this high. And since that, you
know, there might have been a lot more maths and detective work if another
researcher was in that place, right, Gwen. State's also back in the
early nineties there wasn't cell phones or the internet, so contacting people was not
as easy. You're right. You had to rely on snail mail and hopefully
somebody was at home by by their telephone in order to get a phone calls
that maybe beepers. You're right, but still who had those? You know?
I mean, not exactly. Gone back on the video first footprint.
On that video that Paul took, he had his tape measure laid out.
Again, I can't read the tape measure because it's VHS low quality. He
said it's nine inches, it must be a younger one. But what he
also did is he laid the tape measure out in the stride, and he
showed the stride at thirty two inches. Now I want to see you,
either one of the two of you or four of us do a stride at
thirty two inches in line. And that's what made it peculiar to me to
say, well, that's completely not like somebody would have been on a hike
at least with their toes showing. Because there are a couple of the casts
that Paul did take and you can see toe prints. Are we out there
barefoot in it? At nine foot? Look, my shoe size currently is
twelve feet. Am I a juvenile and still able to take a thirty two
inch stride? That's pretty peculiar, but it's very convincing at the same time.
So what we have to show folks tonight is a twenty five second clip
that's been stabilized of the Freeman Freeman footage. Now, keep in mind this
was taken on a Sony cam quarter in nineteen ninety two. A lot of
people mistake it for nineteen ninety four. It was done in nineteen ninety two.
That's right, it's important. I mean, the quality of it you're
going to see is nineteen ninety two, folks, I'm gonna cue up here
so you can see. It's twenty five seconds a stabilized footage of Paul Freeman's
VHS footage. Oh there you go, Yeah, get up here and seeing
foot Now, Paul Freeman sounds a lot like me. You know, he's
six foot five, I'm five. I'm five foot six. We both go
about the same weight. So there's a little bit of exasperation and what have
you. There. But now keep in mind twenty five second clip of that
seven minute video, which we'll put links to it in the show notes so
folks can go and make up their own minds. But to me, I
think that footage is something special. I think, to me it's more I
don't know, I've always had more validity in that than the Patterson film.
But I mean, if you take a couple notes from it, there's that
side view of that. It looks at the camera right, looks back,
probably seeing what the hell's going on, takes off very big, bulky creature
doesn't move so fast, which everybody thinks Gond tributes to it being older.
I don't know if that's the case or not. But when they went and
did some surveys of the tree. I believe it was. The tree measured
sixteen and a half foot tall, and he said it came up to about
the halfway point of the tree, which would put it at eight feet.
Measurements give it seven feet. And of course now they always talk that the
patty subject was probably only six foot three, six foot four, not seven
feet. So it's definitely a big figure that you're talking about. Dan says,
you can hear his genuine surprise and shock and all in the video.
Absolutely, And I think that's the one thing of all the things you could
say, Oh there, he goes, like, if you're gonna fabricate something,
don't you think you'd have something a little bit more Exactly then the Jesus,
like I get it. It does say that, And I'm glad you
brought that up because his specific quote as soon as he sees that movement,
he at first he said he hears popping in the shrubs, and then he
says, oh there, he goes, well, that's probably something I would
say if I saw that too, And then as soon as he clearly sees
it, he says, Jesus and his breathing listen to his breathing pattern as
it's walking away. Aa oh there you go. Yes, get up here,
Al, I'm seeing your foot, yeah, I mean. Jamie King
notes what always impressed me was how shiny the hair appears, like it's kind
of glistening from something kind of greasy or or wet. Now I believe.
He also states that he felt they were drinking from the watershed down there,
so there's a potentiality of why it might also be damp looking. It's it
is nine twenty seven, folks, We do have to take our break.
Stay tuned. We'll be back. Sean Palker, Vince James Baker, Sasquatch
Experience will see you on the other side. Steve I. Simon, Our
life always brings camping is a tradition in my family. Hey, it was
a tradition in everyone's family till we came up with the house. My parents
never took me camping. You know why, because they loved me. Okay,
it closes into nature. I want to keep the relationship professional. If
it's so great outside, why are all the bugs trying to get in my
house? Ah? Yes, just the season for the camping reason. This
is the bigfoot bullhorn right here on the Sasquatch experience. Anybody have any fun
camping stories they'd like to share. I'll go first. While dating my fiance
at the time years ago, we decided to go camping, got to the
camp site a little bit late, about ten o'clock at night, and set
the tent up, and of course we had a inflatable mattress, and in
my genius, I brought along a metal foot pump to fill that mattress.
So by ten thirty at night, campground's dead, silent, and all you
could hear coming out of our tent was the looks I got from our neighbors
the next morning while cooking breakfast, winks and nods. Anyway, this is
the big football horn. Like I mentioned earlier, and a couple of weeks
ago, we did a news story here about the resurrection and de extinction of
the wooly mammoth. Now me personally, I don't think that's such a good
idea, but that project is in full swing, along with a documentary that
is currently being produced. I just don't think it's a good idea. They
went extinct through selection, not by man's hand, but science is at it
again for another creature that went extinct, the thylazine or Tasmanian tiger is an
animal that for many Australians is almost a legend confined to history. They were
driven to extinction. Yet for an animal that was completely wiped out of existence
nearly ninety years ago, it continues to hold the place of endearment in the
eyes of the public. The thylazine was a unique marsupial species that is unlike
any other around today as an apex predator that looked physically like a dog or
wolf. According to Professor Andrew Pass from the University of Melbourne, it was
the king of the marsupials until it's extinction in nineteen thirty six. Now,
unlike its common name suggests, the Tasmanian tiger was once broadly distributed around Australia.
However, the poor genetic health of the species, much worse than that
of the Tasmanian devil. In present day, the introduction of dingos and other
factors wiped out the thilazine from the mainland. Since its extinction, the thylazine
has endured in the Australian's consciousness as a symbol of regret for the role in
its decline and the decline of other species. But what if there was a
way to bring them back, and if there was, should we The thilazine
may be gone, but researchers at the University of Melbourne, led by Professor
Andrew Pask are working towards its de extinction. No longer the stuff of science
fiction, bringing a species back from extinctnction is now a feasible scientific reality.
The first step in reviving an extinct species is to find a good source of
DNA. While DNA is fortunately quite hardy, it's subject to damage by various
enzymes and chemicals, microorganisms, and ultraviolet light. This means that while there
are numerous thilazine samples found in collections and in museums, few have been stored
in such a way to completely protect the DNA from denigration. Although this is
good news for those concerned about a Jurassic Park situation, as all dinosaur DNA
is irreparably destroyed. Andrew did piece together the best preserved DNA from a thylazine
specimen a ten million piece puzzle and sequenced the thylazine genome, providing all all
the instructions needed to make a thylazine me personally, I'm looking forward to keeping
you all abreast of the Wooly Mammoth Resurrection and a thylazine resurrection. As time
marches on, when we come back one of our favorite events, it's got
its announcement to be made. You're listening to the big Koot bullhorn right here
on the Sasquatch Experience. Wow. Are you a vegan who just misses the
entire meat eating process? Do you crave not just the juicy taste of dead
flesh, but want to be part of the medieval tradition of killing it?
Will come on down to Vick Vegan slaughter House. At Vicks Vegan Slaughterhouse,
you'll be given a personal tour of our organic vegetable garden and get to pick
your victim personally. Then you'll launch as we joyfully put a bullet in the
head of your squash, radish or cabbage. If you're especially bloodthirsty. There's
nothing like electrocuting a kill Vicks Vegan Slaughterhouse. You don't have to eat meat
to enjoy torturing and killing a living thing. Bring the kids and get a
free side of murdered peas. Back by popular demand, It's Monsterfest and it
will return to Campon, Ohio on June twenty eighth and twenty ninth of this
year Friday June twenty eighth the Canton Palace Theater downtown Campton, Ohio and Double
Tree by Hilton. There will be vendors and guest speakers and of course live
podcasts for monster Fest two presented by Small Town Monsters and of course kids under
the age of twelve get in absolutely free unless you want to pay for them.
For more information, just visit Stmmonsterfest dot com. Thanks again for listening
to this edition of The Big Football Horn exclusively right here on the Sasquatch Experience,
and of course, as always, gentlemen, until we meet again,
keep your toe in the mind mine sticky, keep your toes in the mud.
Welcome back, folks. Sasquatch Experience. Sean Fokervince has it. James
Baker, our guest, our co host Henry May, who's not able to
make it via video tonight, did share this comment and the Facebook Freeman's footage
is so criminally understudied. Scientists ignoring this footage you need to get their heads
out of the rear ends and take a look at it. Something special about
that, and as hard as you can and pull your head out of your
butt. Good to see you guys. Missed you last week. We missed
you too, Jenny King. I like how Bigfoot stomps like you can't see
me. You can't see me. I'm right here in a tree. Stop
not stomp Blue. Hello, several reputable people have got the DNA filazine that
had to have been your commercial, and then me saying, keep the comments
coming, Keep them coming, folks. We love to hear your comments.
Read them during the show. Keeps us interactive. But I did get a
question from our executive producer, Brian Corbin during the break. He sent me
a message asking if I had any photos of cast I have one better actually
nineteen eighty six. There's a place called Elk Wallow down at the bottom I
think near Low Canyon. Could be wrong, but if you read, there's
a great book out called the Freeman Bigfoot Files. Well worth the money.
Go get yourself a copy. Hangar when publishing Doug Highchack's companies putting it out
there gives a grade overwritten by Paul Freeman in conjunction with some other researchers about
you know, written by Mike about his father Paul, and one of the
things they talk about in there is the knuckle cast. And I told you
guys, I procured a knuckle cast from doctor Jeff Meldrum. So I'm going
to show this to you guys. Right here. This was the knuckle print,
and that's my hand. I don't exactly have a small hand, but
you can see the sasquatch potential sasquatch knuckle right there for fingers and a thumb,
and then just put that in comparison to mine. That's a pretty big
ass, big ass knuckle print, right. I have it on display here
at the studio among some other artifacts. But it's remarkable because those are few
and far between. You know, often we get the footprints, but we
don't get the Now that's a meat hook, Yeah it is. It is,
griff. That's a one hell of imagine taking a shot from a sasquatch.
It's gonna sting just a little bit. But rarely there's another one out
there too. And I'll see if I can pull some pictures up here.
So when you search Paul Freeman, a lot pops up. I like to
be sure that what we're looking at is actually Paul's and it takes a little
time, especially now more than ever, but a Sasquatch legend. Meet science.
Doctor Meldrim talks about the the Freeman Prince. I mean, doctor Meldrim
spent a lot of time with the Paul Freeman Prince, and I have to
tell you if it left him in print, it left him impressed. I
think we all should be a little impressed by them. He is a national
treasure, national treasure, the good doctor. What other questions do you,
gentlemen have? I try to find this vance. You were on a roll
before I cut us off to go to break well, I don't know that
I was on a roll. Was just the fact of, you know,
talking about the fact of how he said, oh here there he goes to
a statement like that in the video. Seems so spontaneous and realistic to me.
And then he's like Jesus and he moves up the trail and you can
hear how his breathing ray changed immediately. I mean, just watch a video.
His breathing ray changed immediately, because you can tell the adrenaline started to
pump right there. Is that a fake? Yeah? I don't think so.
Oh that's that's pretty genuine to me. I'm more convinced than it not
being a fake from the second half of the video compared to the first half.
One oh here he goes to me, is like, okay, that's
showtime. Are my puppets out there? Compared to Jesus? And he's barely
breathing trying to move around because it's freaking him out. If he was prepared
for this thing to be doing this, like how many other videos have we
seen where oh, it's sasquatch and now like and then then they happened to
pan the camera just right, and then they panted the camera where where he
happened, you know what I mean? You could tell them whatever in the
beginning, Like if it would have just been just that statement and it would
have been some other things, I would have said, well, that seems
like he was prepped for it to happen, right, you know, Like
you know, like like we always talk about the evaporating deer story, but
the fact is is, like we were prepped. We were prepped for the
action that was going to happen. We were prepped that someone was going to
hit that deer. We were not prepped for the fact there was nobody and
it exploded, you know what I mean. But when he kind of said
that. In the beginning, I was kind of like, okay, so
your actors in place, you know, that's kind of your action phrase.
But then he's like Jesus, and you know, he's he's having trouble breathing
and stuff like that. That tells me either he sincerely out of shape,
that he didn't expect he'd have to move four feet, that he really is
like this is not a drill. Yeah. Well, all I could say
is for any of our listeners, if they want to go to YouTube and
put in Paul Freeman footage and just watch it for yourself, or watch what
Shawn has put up, just watch it for yourself. I really think there's
a lot of unscripted yeah events that happened because he's all he's doing is he's
video recording footprints and he's trying to make sense of oh, well, the
footprints moved up and then they came back down again. They're clearly moving back
and forth, and then this happened, and that's when he said, oh,
there he goes. That changed the entire dichotomy of what the video was
showing. And that's my point too. And the nice thing I like about
this video is you get a lot of the b roll. And that's the
one thing I always argue about when you see these videos, it's like nothing,
nothing, nothing, we got nothing but sasquatch, you got nothing after
you got nothing before. Okay, so all day you didn't use the video
camera at all, but you happen to have it popped up when this sucker
wanders by. Now, if you were taking pictures of you and your you
know, you take a video you guys having a nice little picnic, and
then a couple of minutes later you pop up the video and there's a hairy
thing trying to eat your wife, you know, Like that's realistic compared to
but there's no other video, and then there's this thing coming to you.
Why did you have the camera out if you weren't prepared, you know what
I mean, Like what was the purpose of the camera. Like when I
go somewhere, like I take pictures of projects I'm working on, or me
and Forker are going to go somewhere and like I have an idea what I
want to do, but I want to mentor like work on it. I'll
take a lot of pictures so I have to be fun after reel of that
and in between there's a bigfoot segment. Then you could look at those and
go okay. Baker had his camera out because he was trying to figure out
if he wanted to put a porch here, or if you wanted to how
he wanted to do the roof on a shed or whatever. And then as
he's looking, there's a soft squatch standing there, you know, and then
he's like, I fixated on that, And then there's you know, video
of me forgetting the cameras on and running because I'm not gonna get killed,
you know, no. But but you bring up the most important point that
you know, Baker and myself and Sean we've all exemplified upon if you're gonna
post a video, we want to see the entire thing, from the moment
you turn it on to the moment you turn it off. Let's see everything
in between. With the Paul Freeman footage, that's what you get. The
only time he turns it off was when he made plaster to pour it into
the footprints. That's the only time he turned the camera off. I understand
why. But after he turns the camera back on, he's showing you this
inline trackway of four footprints that are all in line with each other. He
never says anything about it. He keeps talking, and then he's recording more
footprints that he did not cast that came down towards him on the hill,
or I'm assuming it looked like a hill coming towards him in a different size
than the ones that he's casting. And none of this was taken on a
context. That's the important thing. I've seen way too many videos that have
music put in it and it's taken out of context, and oh, we
got to make this more dramatic than whatever. I don't want to see that.
What I want to see is an unedited version of what it is that
you witnessed from point A when you turn the camera on to point B when
you turn the camera off. And that's that's what makes them more convincing to
me, because he did state that comment. I don't know what else you
would say. I'm not really sure, but when you say, oh,
there he goes, that's totally unscripted. To me, I'm very convinced by
that. I think that photo I posted there is the one of the Freeman
handprint photos. The North American Bigfoot Center in Boring, Oregon are good friend
Cliff Barrickman's place has a whole diorama of handprints, and there aren't as many
as you'd think. I think there's maybe like six or seven on that diorama
that he's put together, and I think that's kind of telling with the you
know, amount of footprint castings there are, how rare it is to find
a handprint. And then of course you go back to the whole conversation of
the Skukum cast which is another story for another time, right, Like,
I mean, just look at that. That's a normal size vending table,
and that's a big ass hand right, that's pretty pretty sizeble. Yeah,
it's it's it's definitely has some distracting. And first off, if you're gripping
into a surface to pull yourself forward in a locomotive motion, you're not using
your thumb. So that cast print shows four fingers, but the thumb is
not involved because that's not really part of And think of it for yourself.
If you're pulling yourself forward, your thumb is parallel to the surface, it's
your think bump, I think them, yeah, there might be, but
it's your fingers that are doing the majority of the pull forward, not so
much your thumb, and your thumb is for stability at that point. Being
a tall bi bettal creature, most of your handprints per se would be higher
up. That would only be as if you know, you'd have to look
at the track and dear if you had a track near where the hand was,
is a track near it a slightly askew like it tripped and it's using
its hand to picking up or you know, like there's a lot of little
factors that go into assessing what usefulness that print is. But one thing I
want to mention is it doesn't look like a regular hand unless they're andre the
giant. And secondly is I don't see clause and some of the other because
one of the things we kind of learned last week was or the week before
was think Bigfoot last. You know, Henry may put it really well,
think Bigfoot last. And the thing is, though that doesn't seem like a
bear print, you know, there would be more of a claw and there'd
be less you know, like whether their animal could make that, Like I
said, it'd have to be a large ass human and I don't know any
animals that have that kind of gape that are that are not you know that
that are running in that area. I mean, it's not somewhere where you
have like orangutangs and stuff like that, with which would have a large hand
like that. I'm assessing a less want to escape from the zoo. But
then the prince would be different because the prince wouldn't be long legged creature.
They'd be squatty and you know whatever. You know, so you had to
look at the mechanics of a bear print. Could a bear Paul do that?
Fans? I don't think so, not in the with the death Right,
and I think the clause would have been a prominent of that print,
and they don't see that in this right. I have to ask, right,
Griff states, I look at the obvious hoaxes today and they are painfully
obvious. If the Freeman footage is fake, he's a lot better than what
they're doing today. And you know the fact is, you go back to
capacity and capability to do that, and did he have the means? Paul
Freeman wasn't an extremely wealthy dude. Roger Patterson. You know, we accuse
these guys of doing some significant Hollywood level hoaxes and they just don't have the
financial means or the abilities. They didn't have LucasArts, they didn't have industrial
light and magic. You're right, they right, that's true. It's true.
And would have they have bought through? So let's go back to Patterson
Gimlin. Would they have really given enough consideration to say, hey, let's
put boobs on this thing and call it a female. Well, so you
know, listen, we say that, but we go back to the William
Rowe photograph or not photograph sketch that he made the creature. He saw what
was one of the prominent features in the William Rowe sighting breasts, right,
huge hairy tits. And I said that just for you, Baker, just
for you there he made me stoop that well, I said it. Okay,
folks, send your hate mail to James Baker at he doesn't give a
damn dot com. I'll send you a free picture of my ass. No,
don't don't do that. No. Speaking of two dollars, you can
be a Patreon support or as little. It's two dollars a month, folks,
two bucks a month, which we have some excited content coming and working
on the investigation of Montour Road Part two. We got another Baker's hot takes
coming vance. Of course, we'll probably do another Man on the Street at
some point in time. We got a lot going on out there. Don't
give up on us because we got a lot going on. We're just busy
men. This is a labor of love for us, it really is.
We're just trying to make it. You make one point that's valid that everybody
seems to forget from nineteen sixty to nineteen eighty I'll even go nineteen eighty five
ninety, there was no joy in being a bigfoot expert or seeing a bigfoot.
You weren't getting money from Jackline's jerkey. You weren't getting you weren't getting
to be on twelve different podcasts and twenty different shows and get to be on
Finding Bigfoot. There was the guys at the bar laughed at you, and
you hoped you were strong enough that get your whoop butt wop. So with
a lot of these people that this stuff happened to, like Patterson Gimlin and
that like is there's story. It wasn't worth baking, right yeah, And
cable television was not a thing at that time, And I think that ms
your point. He just made fun of you, right, Well, you
know or ignored you completely as the rummy, you know, And I think
that's the so I think that's the miscon consternation. I made that word up.
I think of Paul Freeman and Roger Patterson. You know, Patterson was
trying to make this his life's work and was trying to make a dime,
and that's okay, you know, just be transparent about him. But Paul
Freeman was really a man of passion from it when he had a sighting.
And he was a contentious person in this field, not because of his personality
by all accounts. And I never got to meet Paul Freeman, unfortunately,
because he passed away in two thousand and three at the age of fifty nine.
You know, he's not around to defend himself anymore. Neither is Roger
Patterson. But I really feel that there was an honesty about Paul, nothing
nefarious. You know, his personality was he was a big personality, but
as a very generous person, very giving. You know, it was to
kind of give your you know, give me the shirt off your back kind
of guy if he needed it. And you know, he just marred by
by certain things. Bob Titmas was not a fan of Paul Freeman. But
you know, Tipmos had his distractors too. They were saying people that thought
Bob Titmos was the world's greatest you know, tracker, and he couldn't find
mouse shit. So like, I mean, there were a lot of people
who had, you know, the personalities in that time in the eighties.
You know, Peter Burn, you know, was good enough to go out
with Freeman, and you know, and of course sometimes happens with Peter Burn.
The fallout happened afterwards, like at some point he found out it wasn't
as hot as he thought it was going to be and jumped off. Daniel
Perez November twenty twenty two has a full front page article on The Bigfoot Times
about Paul Freeman, and it's worth the read. Every time I write about
mister Freeman, a lightning rock for controversy, in my estimation, I feel
like I'm about to pop the party balloon. And you know, he tries
to argue that, he tries to make the point that anything he posts about
Paul Freeman is you know, good journalism, fact checking and looking for the
proof, and in this case the primary source is Paul Freeman. And again
we go back and talk about the different times that Paul had either misspoke or
got details wrong or stepped back, which you know, again, I don't
think is the strongest case in point to prove somebody was a liar. Good
Morning America fiasco in nineteen eighty seven, I believe, which we play if
you go back and listen to an episode of Sasquatch Experience Still Searching Blue Mountains.
Bigfoot actually is the interview that Maz and I did with Paul with Mike
Freeman talking about his dad, and we go into that and how the Good
Morning America actually kind of hurt him and hurt his credibility where they asked him
if he faked Prince and his full answer was yes, I faked Prince.
I faked him in the garden to measure, and they never went that the
course. The only part they went with was that sound bite, yes,
I've faked tracks right. Cryptid Creatures Reborn says that he was humble and even
didn't like talking about it towards the end. Yeah, and I can imagine
they met Crypto Creature every Born another podcast out there, folks, check it
out. He's on X And for some reason I can't post back to him.
So if you can hear this, you know we're acknowledging you. We're
just having a you know, Baker, that's a great point. We faked
a track to learn how to cast, and no matter how much we told
people that that cast was fake, people still tried to buy it. We
put it in a shadow box with a map of where we did it.
It said James Baker, like like the worst, Like it was just trmndous
had little Pennsylvania map behind it. It wasn't bad. I mean, he's
he's making it wasn't bad, but it but it clearly said but it clearly
said James Baker, size twelve, and folks still were trying to buy it.
We must have had this is not a real print right to do it.
So, no matter even if you do put out that truth and lending
statement that hey you know this is you know this is fake. You know,
people still are gonna make up their own mind and believe what they want
to. Right, And there's a lot of I think you need to just
good stuff from Take a look at Todd's standing. You know you can't put
him in the same category lapse. No, but it's the same thing and
that that's where everything starts to collapse. But it's not. And it's like,
come on, you're you're gonna show us, and the entire thing collapses
below us. Todd's standing's clearly trying to promote a fucking muppet out there and
promote us a big foot. Freeman never did that. Freeman like different,
they can't be in the same they can't be in the same category. That's
the point, Like it's they're just too different. And I don't know Freeman.
To me, there was a genuine folksy honesty to him, and I
never got to meet him, so everything I see is from either video and
and you know, listening to his son, you know, you know when
you get to know somebody and you really want to get the real, true
read on somebody, you know, ask their kids talk to him. And
we did that with Michael, and Michael and I haven't spoken some time,
but my last I thoroughly enjoyed that conversation. And go back and take a
listen Sasquatch Experience still searching Blue Mountain, Bigfoot. It is a it's a
good listen. It's it's a little long. I think it's about two hours,
but it's worth every second if you wanted to get a good read on
more about this topic, because, believe it or not, we're almost at
a friggin time right. No, I don't thing is when I don't like
about the Folk conversation was you know that he went on there and he admitted
he faked things. Well, we've all done it, and that bothers me.
You remember we got that certificate from Jeff Meltram he technically faked four bigfoot
casts in front of us. Well, but you're sporting the hairs. I
mean that was an educational purpose as opposed to a but that was what he
was trying to say. Yes, I've made I've made fake ones to find
out how to do it. So, you know, I think it was
it might have been Gwen, or it might have been Amy, but one
of them said, how do you learn If you try to learn why you've
got the cast in front of you've already failed. Right, You got to
learn beforehand. You've got to know how to do mix this stuff right,
because when we did ours got to practice craft. If we'd have done ten
more, the first one looked horrible. The second, third day to all
progressed into something better. You know, my fiancee likes cows. Every cow
picture I paint looks a little bit more like a cow. Well, moo,
moo, mo guy, it's that time we have to call it.
Folks. You've been listening to The Sasquatch Experience. Sean Falker, Vince has
been, James Baker on behalf of Henry May and Matt Arner tonight. Next
week we've got chestermore Bigfootsouth dot com pick up his book Bigfoot South, and
Matt will also be on Sasquatch Watch Radio at the same time. We hope
you come back. We had a great turnout tonight, folks. Thank you
for being so engaged. And we just scratched the surface of Paul Freeman,
episode ninety eight, Freeman on Behalf of Henry May. You folks have a
safe all y'all be good or be good. Well he tried it, I
didn't. He tried it miss And for the love of God think Bigfoot last.
And you know what, just just keep on squatching. Good night.
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