1 00:00:00,320 --> 00:00:04,080 The best way to support Softcore History is by subscribing to our Patreon. Go 2 00:00:04,120 --> 00:00:09,080 to patreon dot com slash softcore History and for five dollars a month you will 3 00:00:09,080 --> 00:00:14,880 get eight episodes a month, plus over two years of back catalog evergreen content. 4 00:00:15,240 --> 00:00:18,320 Patreon is the best way to support us, so go to patreon dot 5 00:00:18,359 --> 00:00:25,359 com slash softcore History. Today. On today's episode, we talk about the 6 00:00:25,359 --> 00:00:31,199 conflict that created the Roman Empire, the conflict that proved once and for all 7 00:00:32,119 --> 00:00:37,000 that Rome would not take no for an answer, going from a little, 8 00:00:37,039 --> 00:00:43,600 tiny, promising startup to a mammoth beast of a corporation. And my favorite 9 00:00:43,640 --> 00:00:51,679 part is, no matter how many times Fate to gods whatever said you should 10 00:00:51,719 --> 00:00:58,200 stop doing this, Rome persisted and pushed on through this republic was all gas, 11 00:00:58,600 --> 00:01:07,719 no breaks. Today we cover the First Punic War. Welcome to Softcore 12 00:01:08,120 --> 00:01:12,319 History. Welcome back to soft core History. I'm your host who Week, 13 00:01:12,359 --> 00:01:18,760 Damna Jester, and I'm joined as always by Rob Fox and special guest, 14 00:01:19,359 --> 00:01:23,560 our good pal Nick. I'm back. I'm back. Gave me the U 15 00:01:23,879 --> 00:01:26,879 the old name because we're going way back in time on this one. Nicholas, 16 00:01:27,120 --> 00:01:34,400 That Nicholas Gregorious Maximus. Now are you do you spell it all Greek? 17 00:01:34,560 --> 00:01:38,120 Like? Is it just a k no n I k no, let's 18 00:01:38,480 --> 00:01:42,280 h it's my middle name. Okay, yeah, you got you got anglicized 19 00:01:42,319 --> 00:01:45,640 with it. I did, I did? You gotta go, you gotta 20 00:01:45,680 --> 00:01:49,480 go, guy Fieri and de anglicize your name. All my Greek relatives liked 21 00:01:49,519 --> 00:01:53,359 white women, and so I think the name just kind of trickled. Well, 22 00:01:53,359 --> 00:01:57,280 who doesn't. Yeah, that's really what minorities don't realize. And it's 23 00:01:57,319 --> 00:02:00,760 what I've done myself, even as a white man, is you need to 24 00:02:00,760 --> 00:02:05,079 marry a white woman. That's how you move up in society. You marry 25 00:02:05,079 --> 00:02:07,280 a white woman. The white are the white the higher in society. Yeah. 26 00:02:07,319 --> 00:02:09,719 Now, for a long time that wasn't allowed. And that's exactly why, 27 00:02:10,199 --> 00:02:15,319 because they knew that they were going to lose their white women to them, 28 00:02:15,439 --> 00:02:19,159 to them boys, and they didn't want to lose them because they know 29 00:02:19,240 --> 00:02:22,319 that's the that's the ladder, that's how that's how you climb the ladder. 30 00:02:22,319 --> 00:02:27,319 We talked about this, The great replacement theory is me being attracted to giant 31 00:02:27,360 --> 00:02:30,560 booty latinas I'm following. See, but think about that. That's how they 32 00:02:30,639 --> 00:02:32,240 that's how they get you, right. They send in their big booty Latinas 33 00:02:32,560 --> 00:02:37,159 and then you're like ay yayai, and you chase after it like a slobbering 34 00:02:37,199 --> 00:02:39,400 fucking Warner Brothers. And then my kids are Hispanish. Yeah. But then 35 00:02:39,759 --> 00:02:46,719 the men take the white ladies, especially the unmarriable ones, and you know, 36 00:02:46,800 --> 00:02:50,800 hopefully Dad's got some money, and boom, all of a sudden, 37 00:02:50,800 --> 00:02:53,639 the whole family is legitimized. You marry up, You marry up. That 38 00:02:53,719 --> 00:02:58,560 is a tale of the oldest time. It's across cultures. It's exactly how 39 00:02:58,599 --> 00:03:01,879 our topic today got starred. It is a bunch of guys in this country 40 00:03:02,199 --> 00:03:06,840 that were all duded up, went and took a bunch of women from some 41 00:03:06,879 --> 00:03:10,520 neighboring towns and expanded their empire. Let's we'll get to that. Let's go. 42 00:03:12,199 --> 00:03:15,439 I told Georgia the topic beforehand. All right, with this, we 43 00:03:15,520 --> 00:03:19,599 had to bring in a fellow Mediterranean. Yes, we're talking about the first 44 00:03:19,599 --> 00:03:23,159 Punic Wars. You heard that off the top though with the intro we've talked 45 00:03:23,199 --> 00:03:27,240 about Hannibal in the past, but we're doing the prequel. That's right. 46 00:03:27,800 --> 00:03:30,599 Is this inspired by the podcast I sent you No, this is inspired by 47 00:03:30,639 --> 00:03:34,960 Georgio, by Georgia particular, okay, because which we try to canter our 48 00:03:35,000 --> 00:03:38,039 topic to the well. Also House of the Dragon, so that is a 49 00:03:38,039 --> 00:03:42,879 prequel to Game of Thrones. There's less similarities in the Carthaginians and the Valerians. 50 00:03:43,000 --> 00:03:45,719 Also, perhaps a dragon appears in the story. Yes, there has 51 00:03:45,759 --> 00:03:47,840 been official quotes from a Roman that there was a dragon. Oh boy, 52 00:03:47,879 --> 00:03:53,199 well that today has a theme then, because I got a lot of beasts 53 00:03:53,240 --> 00:03:57,280 in my episode. Check that out on Patreon, Patreon dot com. Slash 54 00:03:57,319 --> 00:04:01,919 softcore history. Yes, let's into the first Punic Wars. What made Rome? 55 00:04:02,680 --> 00:04:08,840 Carthage was founded in eight fourteen BC as the Phoenician Trade Colony or in 56 00:04:08,919 --> 00:04:13,960 Latin speaking Rome, the Punic trade colony. Yes, and that is where 57 00:04:13,960 --> 00:04:18,000 the name comes from the Phoenicians. What area is that nowdn Lebanon Lebanon, 58 00:04:18,000 --> 00:04:21,920 and it's initially or later become the Ottoman Empire or like the heart of Ottoman 59 00:04:21,920 --> 00:04:25,720 Empire. Yeah, I mean all those cities that are up there, Lebanon, 60 00:04:25,839 --> 00:04:30,600 sit On, Tire, there, t sartists, all those cities are 61 00:04:30,639 --> 00:04:34,720 like massive trade hubs. It's all like imagine just like every single one of 62 00:04:34,759 --> 00:04:38,480 them. Imagine like the East coast of the United States, right, you 63 00:04:38,519 --> 00:04:42,040 have a huge port in Baltimore, a huge port in New York, huge 64 00:04:42,040 --> 00:04:46,720 port in Yeah, we have a port yeah Philly, huge port in philadelph 65 00:04:46,720 --> 00:04:49,040 Baltimore has a port. I know Baltimore does. They just said that boat 66 00:04:49,199 --> 00:04:54,319 just hit it. Everybody like all just just a Boston, like a Boston 67 00:04:54,360 --> 00:05:00,000 habba, like all these great port cities that are like commercial empires. Basically, 68 00:05:00,040 --> 00:05:02,399 what I'm saying is they all sail west from basically what's now the Middle 69 00:05:02,439 --> 00:05:08,560 East into the Mediterranean and it's northern Africa. Yeah. They were dope sailors 70 00:05:08,560 --> 00:05:13,000 too, They were the best sailors. They were essentially just merchants and Carthage 71 00:05:13,040 --> 00:05:15,920 is what came of the Phoenicians, and that was the empire. They set 72 00:05:15,000 --> 00:05:19,199 up shop in northern Africa, and that was then it became its own thing. 73 00:05:19,480 --> 00:05:25,600 Yeah. It was a semi democratic republic that built their superpower entirely off 74 00:05:25,639 --> 00:05:30,759 trade in ivory, gold, slaves and offering up child sacrifices to Baal, 75 00:05:30,439 --> 00:05:36,120 the god of plant fertility, a god that came over from Phoenicia from the 76 00:05:36,199 --> 00:05:41,279 East. Yes, and in fact that is what Hannibal's name is based on. 77 00:05:42,399 --> 00:05:45,439 This is all of us know way too much about this because you probably 78 00:05:45,480 --> 00:05:47,639 just studied it or knew it already because you liked it, but studied it 79 00:05:47,680 --> 00:05:53,959 more because you knew it was happening. I weirdly, incidentally, on accident, 80 00:05:54,319 --> 00:05:57,519 listened to a different history podcast while I was mowing the lawn the last 81 00:05:57,560 --> 00:06:00,160 two weeks, and it was about the punic hoors are you trying to kneecap 82 00:06:00,199 --> 00:06:04,639 me in this episode? I'm trying to I'm trying to offer yourself up trying 83 00:06:04,639 --> 00:06:08,839 to kneecap his host. No, I'm gonna what I'm gonna do is I'm 84 00:06:08,879 --> 00:06:12,160 gonna protect you by kneecapping him and then the process it might take you out 85 00:06:12,160 --> 00:06:14,120 as well, I guess, but I'm gonna I'm gonna kill his bit. 86 00:06:14,240 --> 00:06:16,800 I'm catching astray. Yeah, yeah, yeah yeah. If you don't know, 87 00:06:16,800 --> 00:06:21,000 the last time Georgia was on his entire bit was to just submarine fucking 88 00:06:21,040 --> 00:06:27,439 torpedo Jake's episode by knowing more about Jake's topics than Jake. It was four 89 00:06:27,519 --> 00:06:30,920 years ago. First of all, I want to say, as a Mediterranean 90 00:06:30,000 --> 00:06:34,279 I'm just in love with the history and secondly, I think the first, 91 00:06:34,319 --> 00:06:39,800 second, and your third Punic Wars represent uh, you know, the first 92 00:06:39,800 --> 00:06:43,000 being naval, the second being land, and then the third being in the 93 00:06:43,000 --> 00:06:49,120 air the greatest representation of the US military forces. Yes, what was the 94 00:06:49,120 --> 00:06:55,160 third peedifor in the air? Okay, dragons, that is not true. 95 00:06:56,360 --> 00:07:00,680 But to answer your early question, the Punic Wars, the first Pini Corps 96 00:07:00,759 --> 00:07:05,040 was like two sixty Okay, that's two forty twenty four year span, which 97 00:07:05,120 --> 00:07:09,600 is crazy to think about because that's like two hundred that's already So America's what 98 00:07:09,720 --> 00:07:13,519 like two hundred fifty years old about roughly. Uh, in fact, in 99 00:07:13,800 --> 00:07:16,759 two years to be two hundred fifty years old. Uh, the Roman Republic 100 00:07:16,839 --> 00:07:20,480 is already basically two hundred and fifty years old. Well, it's already has 101 00:07:20,519 --> 00:07:24,519 been around as long as the United States. They're just we're turning from a 102 00:07:24,560 --> 00:07:28,720 monarchy too republic around this time. How much before this did that happen. 103 00:07:28,800 --> 00:07:31,639 They're also kind of bucking right now. They're taking over the entire Italian peninsula. 104 00:07:31,839 --> 00:07:35,040 Just fucked up the Etruscans. They haven't really explored outside of that though. 105 00:07:35,199 --> 00:07:39,680 No, they've pretty much chopped the bottom all of Italy is now Rome. 106 00:07:39,800 --> 00:07:43,319 M h clean your own house. This is upstart Yeah, clean your 107 00:07:43,319 --> 00:07:46,959 own house, startup culture. We get ping pong tables, launch kidded every 108 00:07:46,959 --> 00:07:51,360 Friday. We're family here. We don't really pay you much, but you 109 00:07:51,399 --> 00:07:55,519 know, we'll give you some stock options for Rome. But what body of 110 00:07:55,560 --> 00:08:01,920 water is right below that? Below the Mediterranean? Yeah, we're gonna get 111 00:08:01,920 --> 00:08:03,800 to it. We're getting to Sicily. Please stop stepping all over my ship. 112 00:08:05,079 --> 00:08:07,480 All right, you just go. I'm gonna I'm gonna mute you. 113 00:08:07,480 --> 00:08:11,680 You're gone. I'll talk the first person we ever toss off the pot. 114 00:08:13,319 --> 00:08:16,120 I'm the storyteller. You're supposed to add, We're supposed to jump in. 115 00:08:16,160 --> 00:08:20,560 All right. So the two are pretty amicable. For hundreds of years, 116 00:08:20,759 --> 00:08:24,959 they had good trade relations, formed alliances, and battled similar enemies. The 117 00:08:26,000 --> 00:08:30,959 spark of the conflict between these two powers was a little Italian mercenary group known 118 00:08:31,120 --> 00:08:39,320 as Go Ahead Giorgio. Ah, I love that. This is what ohmortins 119 00:08:39,600 --> 00:08:43,720 have? Memortines, memortines, memortines, member tans. How would you describe 120 00:08:43,720 --> 00:08:46,799 them? They were recently unemployed by the city of Syracuse and moseying around looking 121 00:08:46,840 --> 00:08:52,399 for some excitement and they're now dull lives. I guess if you want to 122 00:08:52,440 --> 00:08:58,320 go with the Game of Thrones comparisons the Golden Company, Golden Company or mixed 123 00:08:58,360 --> 00:09:01,879 with a little of Chippendale, I think, or like down Under, Like 124 00:09:01,879 --> 00:09:09,000 I see them you siled up? Just well, everyone's oiled up professional wrestler 125 00:09:09,039 --> 00:09:13,279 in the eighties exactly, but now like but now everyone knows wrestling's fake, 126 00:09:13,360 --> 00:09:16,399 so they have nothing to do. Yeah, Syracuse, by the way, 127 00:09:16,440 --> 00:09:24,200 your people, that's the Greek colony on Sicily. Yes, yeah, they 128 00:09:24,200 --> 00:09:28,480 find their way to the eastern tip of Sicily in the town a Masana in 129 00:09:28,480 --> 00:09:33,639 two eighty eight BC, where peaceful inhabitants welcome the hired swords with open arms. 130 00:09:35,279 --> 00:09:39,600 And boy was that a bad idea. It's it's like it's like welcoming 131 00:09:39,919 --> 00:09:45,720 a gang into your like subdivision. You're like gated community, you know what 132 00:09:45,759 --> 00:09:48,639 I mean? Like, Oh, they seem cool. I like their music. 133 00:09:50,200 --> 00:09:54,519 It's loud and has drum beats. Let's let them in there. They 134 00:09:54,559 --> 00:10:00,679 have weapons? Are you? Are you making a case for j education through 135 00:10:00,759 --> 00:10:05,000 the fuse pernicure? I am. I am pro gentrification. Yes, sweep 136 00:10:05,080 --> 00:10:09,759 the streets with money, brooms of money, sweep the rats into the storm 137 00:10:09,840 --> 00:10:18,720 off the pot. Do you want gentrification? I I I'm already gentrified, 138 00:10:18,759 --> 00:10:22,600 so it's fine. So what what they do in the city. They were 139 00:10:22,639 --> 00:10:28,679 bored so, realizing they would have virtually zero resistance, the Mammertines just decided 140 00:10:28,720 --> 00:10:31,320 to just take the town for themselves. Murdered and kicked out all the male 141 00:10:31,360 --> 00:10:37,519 population and divided up the property and women as they saw fit, and turned 142 00:10:37,519 --> 00:10:41,879 the place into a rating base for the next twenty years. Messina is northern 143 00:10:41,879 --> 00:10:46,960 Sicily, I think right, it's right on the tip Sicily and Italy kind 144 00:10:46,960 --> 00:10:50,480 of where they Yeah, I'm just what is the water the there's a street 145 00:10:50,679 --> 00:10:54,120 right there. Yeah, I don't know what the Straits called. Is that 146 00:10:54,159 --> 00:10:56,799 the Adriatic seekers at the one but Adriatics between Italy and Croatia, right, 147 00:10:58,159 --> 00:11:01,279 I think that's Adriatic. Yeah. Anyway, I'm just trying to remember my 148 00:11:01,360 --> 00:11:05,679 Rome total Warmap campaign map. It goes Messina, Syracuse and then a little 149 00:11:05,720 --> 00:11:09,519 bellum's on the far side. That's the Carthacinian city's little bellum. The Roman 150 00:11:09,559 --> 00:11:15,600 city is Messina, and the Greek city Syracuse. Well over these next twenty 151 00:11:15,679 --> 00:11:20,519 years, the Mamartines then began to plunder their former employer and territory of Syracuse, 152 00:11:20,519 --> 00:11:24,200 but, unlike the friendly city of Masana, Syracuse fought back. What 153 00:11:24,279 --> 00:11:28,120 a bunch of dicks, I know, right, How dare you let us 154 00:11:28,159 --> 00:11:31,200 have your women and your property. Hey, we we're just gonna either kill 155 00:11:31,240 --> 00:11:35,279 you or kick you out, send you to the countryside, or rape sell 156 00:11:35,679 --> 00:11:39,840 slaves, maybe make you a slave, do stuff to your wife. You'll 157 00:11:39,840 --> 00:11:45,399 watch. We'll sell your kids too. I thought they were gonna raise the 158 00:11:45,440 --> 00:11:48,919 kids. They're gonna raise money off the kids. Fair. We've said this 159 00:11:48,960 --> 00:11:52,000 before on the show, But when you're a hired gun or a hired sword, 160 00:11:52,080 --> 00:11:54,879 you're gonna raise a child. I don't think so. I feel like 161 00:11:54,960 --> 00:11:58,600 you all are like brothers from another mother in that sense, we like Earth. 162 00:12:00,279 --> 00:12:03,679 I don't think a hired sword really has a five year or ten year 163 00:12:03,759 --> 00:12:07,679 plan. I think they kind of live in the moment. Yeah. True, 164 00:12:07,720 --> 00:12:11,519 and the kid probably wants some retribution. Probably best get rid of him. 165 00:12:11,600 --> 00:12:13,879 Unless you're Andrew Jackson and you just find an Indian boy amongst all the 166 00:12:13,879 --> 00:12:16,919 people you slaughtered, and you're like, oh, you're cute, You're mine 167 00:12:18,000 --> 00:12:20,919 now, and you just raise him like your son, and then when he 168 00:12:20,000 --> 00:12:22,799 asks, you're just like, yeah, I don't know. Yeah, I 169 00:12:22,840 --> 00:12:26,960 killed him. Saved you from a life of savagery because I'm fucking Andrew Jackson. 170 00:12:26,039 --> 00:12:30,200 Did he make him March? No, he adopted. There was some 171 00:12:30,360 --> 00:12:33,039 like Indian like Native American kid he like adopted. But after a certain amount 172 00:12:33,039 --> 00:12:35,679 of time was Andrew Jackson like right off to Oklahoma? You go? Now? 173 00:12:35,759 --> 00:12:39,200 He kept him around the whole time he was. He was good as 174 00:12:39,279 --> 00:12:41,360 far as I know, good to him. I mean so after good to 175 00:12:41,480 --> 00:12:45,799 him after he murdered his family. He's good to one native after he murdered 176 00:12:45,799 --> 00:12:48,120 his family. It was probably just so he could point like, look I 177 00:12:48,120 --> 00:12:50,919 haven't I got one. Yeah, check out check out my black friend, 178 00:12:52,519 --> 00:12:54,240 check out my native son. How'd you get him? How do you become 179 00:12:54,279 --> 00:12:58,759 your son? Oh? He was an orphan? Oh? Who did? 180 00:12:58,080 --> 00:13:03,360 Did you make him an orphan? Or did someone? I'm taking care of 181 00:13:03,440 --> 00:13:07,600 them right, Yeah? You want you yeah, you want question you want 182 00:13:07,639 --> 00:13:11,559 to ask questions? Do you wanna you know? But the Mambartines, like 183 00:13:11,720 --> 00:13:16,200 I think that twenty years chilling there kind of made them soft. No, 184 00:13:16,279 --> 00:13:20,639 they were still plundering, they were, but like Syracuse was kind of giving 185 00:13:20,639 --> 00:13:22,519 it to them. They're not hitting, they're not hitting hard targets. Hider 186 00:13:22,519 --> 00:13:28,600 of the Second of Syracuse gathered up an army of Greek citizens, captured Mamartine 187 00:13:28,720 --> 00:13:33,559 leaders, and counter attacked the city Masana. And like you said, maybe 188 00:13:33,600 --> 00:13:37,159 they did get soft and they reached out to Carthage for help. That's kind 189 00:13:37,159 --> 00:13:39,559 of why I think, Like, look, w wrong, Vikings are cool, 190 00:13:41,200 --> 00:13:45,120 blah blah blah. They definitely conquered stuff, they took Paris whatever, 191 00:13:46,080 --> 00:13:48,679 But like a lot of this, like dude, Vikings are so bad as 192 00:13:48,720 --> 00:13:50,960 to it, like the craziest warriors. They would roll into like a village 193 00:13:52,320 --> 00:13:56,279 outnumbering them, like the Element of Surprise had the ELM's Prize outnumbered them, 194 00:13:56,600 --> 00:14:00,679 if not in like straight up ten to one numbers or five to what numbers, 195 00:14:01,080 --> 00:14:05,000 like because maybe the population was roughly the same of the but and stuff 196 00:14:05,039 --> 00:14:07,200 like that. I mean, they were just hitting, hitting the ball off 197 00:14:07,200 --> 00:14:11,120 the team most of the time. It took Paris, I know they did. 198 00:14:11,200 --> 00:14:16,480 They didn't do nothing. And they were the Byzantine Emperor's like favorite, 199 00:14:16,039 --> 00:14:18,799 uh, what is it the Varangian Guard or something like that, Like they 200 00:14:18,879 --> 00:14:22,840 was a fair. But I'm just saying a lot of most of what they 201 00:14:22,879 --> 00:14:28,279 did though, they were really just killing civilians, and people were like, 202 00:14:28,320 --> 00:14:31,159 well, so hard, dude, they're hard. They also had their women 203 00:14:31,240 --> 00:14:37,759 fight, so progressive. Hell yeah, you and your wife just slaughtering innocence, 204 00:14:37,480 --> 00:14:41,440 doing it in a puddle of blood, puddle of mud. Well, 205 00:14:43,480 --> 00:14:48,240 the blood made the mud. So the Mamartines reached out to Carthage. Carthage 206 00:14:48,240 --> 00:14:52,120 hopped on the opportunity, as they have long coveted the entire island of Sicily 207 00:14:52,120 --> 00:14:58,159 for themselves, fighting with Syracuse for centuries. They sent a force to then 208 00:14:58,240 --> 00:15:05,200 form a garrison in Masana. Carthage essentially took over the base of operations, 209 00:15:05,360 --> 00:15:09,240 much to the dismay of many Mamartine soldiers. There's a bit of a split 210 00:15:09,279 --> 00:15:16,919 between the Mamartine mercenaries and half reach out to Rome is the Mamartines. So 211 00:15:16,960 --> 00:15:20,960 if I like remember this correctly, you said the Marmarantines were like Italian mercenaries. 212 00:15:20,960 --> 00:15:24,799 They're Italian, Okay. So the first treaty between Rome and Carthage was 213 00:15:24,879 --> 00:15:28,639 essentially like, all right, we're Phoenicians, you're Latins. And then there's 214 00:15:28,639 --> 00:15:31,919 also the Greeks or whatever. But they were like you, we're cool with 215 00:15:31,960 --> 00:15:35,360 you, and we'll do business with you, but you keep your Latin shit 216 00:15:35,480 --> 00:15:39,279 to your Latin parts of the world, and we'll keep our Phoenician shit to 217 00:15:39,320 --> 00:15:43,440 our Phoenician parts of the world. And so I assume the Latins saw them 218 00:15:43,480 --> 00:15:46,120 taking over what they thought was a Latin part of the world and we're like, 219 00:15:46,559 --> 00:15:52,679 hey, hey, hey, we don't need ay, it's ain't you 220 00:15:52,799 --> 00:15:56,879 block. Yeah. When they saw the Carthage was setting up shop and they 221 00:15:56,879 --> 00:16:00,240 didn't really want to listen to them. They're like, Rome, we're Italians. 222 00:16:00,279 --> 00:16:06,919 You're Italians. That Rome was like we can wait wait what we can 223 00:16:06,960 --> 00:16:10,440 go to war? Oh finally, well not yet. No, we're not 224 00:16:10,440 --> 00:16:11,759 there yet. We can do some fighting. Sorry, do some fighting. 225 00:16:11,799 --> 00:16:18,480 Excuse me no, Because so the Romans come down and they're confused. They're 226 00:16:18,480 --> 00:16:22,799 like, why is Carthage here. Carthage is like why why are the Romans 227 00:16:22,799 --> 00:16:25,000 coming down? Like we don't have any issues, we don't have any beef. 228 00:16:25,320 --> 00:16:30,159 And as I said earlier, this was not prime Roman empire that we 229 00:16:30,200 --> 00:16:33,360 all know and love just yet. Yeah, this is like Rome at this 230 00:16:33,440 --> 00:16:37,919 point, man, I'm trying to go a good example. Okay, it's 231 00:16:38,000 --> 00:16:42,200 a good parallel to the United States. Rome at this point is like pretty 232 00:16:42,360 --> 00:16:48,200 America in the eighteen thirties to the Mexican War. Basically right, not nothing, 233 00:16:48,960 --> 00:16:52,399 absolutely not nothing. So can certainly put up a fight. Not you 234 00:16:52,480 --> 00:16:56,600 know, they're they're they're they're someone to be reckoned with to an extent, 235 00:16:56,679 --> 00:16:59,759 like if they say something, you have to acknowledge it. But like, 236 00:17:00,240 --> 00:17:03,119 yeah, would be a dog, would be a dog in any fight, 237 00:17:03,160 --> 00:17:07,319 including the No one thought the US was gonna win the Mexican War. People 238 00:17:07,359 --> 00:17:10,799 thought that is our punic war. As far as I'm confid, I think 239 00:17:10,799 --> 00:17:12,279 I've said that on the show before. Nobody thought the US was gonna win 240 00:17:12,279 --> 00:17:17,319 the Mexican War. People thought Mexico was bigger and gonna have the upper hand. 241 00:17:17,359 --> 00:17:19,759 We obviously fucking housed him. At this time, Rome was not about 242 00:17:19,799 --> 00:17:25,319 allowing too much power at a time. They had two consules served one year 243 00:17:25,400 --> 00:17:29,599 at a time before being switched out. So what was a measure put in 244 00:17:29,640 --> 00:17:33,920 place to keep Roman leaders in check? Also created this pedal to the metal 245 00:17:33,160 --> 00:17:37,519 yolo mentality to conquer and gain glory and fame as much as they could under 246 00:17:37,519 --> 00:17:41,400 their command. For the year. You don't get a naked statue of yourself 247 00:17:42,039 --> 00:17:45,480 at home. You go to war and you conquer, and that's how you're 248 00:17:45,480 --> 00:17:49,759 remembered forever you And also I could be wrong about this, but I think 249 00:17:49,839 --> 00:17:55,240 like that also would make people want you to be counsel again. I don't 250 00:17:55,279 --> 00:17:56,480 know if there was a rule about serving twice in a row, but I'm 251 00:17:56,519 --> 00:18:00,440 pretty sure you could be council more than once. I think it was a 252 00:18:00,480 --> 00:18:03,000 bad look to be counsel more than once. Yeah, okay, I don't 253 00:18:03,079 --> 00:18:06,799 maybe you wait a term, Yeah you don't. I don't think. I 254 00:18:06,839 --> 00:18:08,799 don't go back to back. I'm pretty sure you could be. And so 255 00:18:08,839 --> 00:18:11,920 it's like, dude, let's get Flavius again. Flavius was dope, you 256 00:18:11,920 --> 00:18:17,799 weren't the old ship Flavor's dude. Look again. There also is a bunch 257 00:18:17,839 --> 00:18:22,400 of people all name the same thing. Yeah, you know, fucking dude. 258 00:18:22,839 --> 00:18:26,039 Actually, one thing I learned that was really funny and the Carthag ship 259 00:18:26,079 --> 00:18:30,920 I was listening to a couple of weeks ago, is that, uh boy, 260 00:18:30,079 --> 00:18:34,400 everyone is named fucking Hannibal. Everyone is named Hannibal. There are a 261 00:18:34,440 --> 00:18:38,880 lot of fucking handles. A couple of Hannibals. It's because Hannibal. It's 262 00:18:38,920 --> 00:18:44,480 a named It's like, uh a, it's named for ball, the god. 263 00:18:44,599 --> 00:18:48,920 Yeah, the god hand plant fertility. Yeah, it's Hannah means so 264 00:18:48,000 --> 00:18:52,400 many children got sacrificed too, So many children, Like hey, Dad, 265 00:18:52,400 --> 00:18:55,319 how about you just like water that plant instead? And he's like, na, 266 00:18:55,440 --> 00:18:56,680 son, just come here, hold on, yeah, throw him in 267 00:18:56,720 --> 00:19:03,480 the fire. Romans go into Massan and Carthage forces were confused and ultimately left 268 00:19:03,519 --> 00:19:07,759 without much conflict as they were being escorted out of the city walls by the 269 00:19:07,839 --> 00:19:14,160 Mammartines and Romans. General Hanno and his forces get back to Carthage, regroup 270 00:19:14,200 --> 00:19:18,119 and strategize how to respond to the surprise power struggle for Masana. Unfortunately, 271 00:19:18,200 --> 00:19:22,519 though, our boy Hanno never got a chance at redemption. In typical Carthage 272 00:19:22,559 --> 00:19:27,480 fashion, he was crucified for his cowardice and misjudgment. Yeah, they don't 273 00:19:27,519 --> 00:19:32,119 like a loser, no, no, And I think that kind of like 274 00:19:32,400 --> 00:19:37,359 also, like these two different ideologies are very important to go through all of 275 00:19:37,400 --> 00:19:41,480 the punic wars. Is a lot of the Carthaginians are very conservative because they 276 00:19:41,519 --> 00:19:44,119 don't want to come back as a failure and get crucified. Yeah, they 277 00:19:44,119 --> 00:19:48,039 don't want to die. So you have one side that's like we only get 278 00:19:48,079 --> 00:19:52,160 punished for failing, and the other sides like only upside. Yeah, we 279 00:19:52,200 --> 00:19:56,400 will get as much famin glory for what we do, and if we fail, 280 00:19:56,400 --> 00:19:59,599 it's not a really a big deal. So Romans kind of playing with 281 00:19:59,640 --> 00:20:06,960 house. Yes, Carthaginians are playing with their mortgage. Yeah, pretty much. 282 00:20:07,400 --> 00:20:11,119 And I'm already down half a stack. Yeah yeah, li metaphor kind 283 00:20:11,119 --> 00:20:15,759 of. It only makes sense because they were so rich they were Carthage. 284 00:20:15,839 --> 00:20:21,200 Oh yeah, so well half their forces too, aren't even their citizens, 285 00:20:21,359 --> 00:20:25,440 Yeah, just mercenary groups, which does never work well. That comes into 286 00:20:25,440 --> 00:20:30,279 play later with Romans encroaching on Syracuse territory. They made a pact with their 287 00:20:30,279 --> 00:20:34,680 traditional enemies in Carthage to put the Romans back in their place. They surrounded 288 00:20:34,680 --> 00:20:40,480 the city of Masana thinking they could get the occupied forces to pick up and 289 00:20:40,599 --> 00:20:45,200 leave, only to get their ass whipped by the Roman legions in the Battle 290 00:20:45,200 --> 00:20:51,599 of Massuna. Damn. And this is pre Like you were saying, like, 291 00:20:51,640 --> 00:20:53,480 this isn't Rome Rome yet, this is early Rome. So this is 292 00:20:53,559 --> 00:20:59,119 pre like the Marian reforms, So they're not even considered, they're not even 293 00:20:59,200 --> 00:21:06,079 legionaries legions yet, they're they're what are they called, like Hatatsai princips. 294 00:21:06,200 --> 00:21:08,920 I'm not doing that. I'm just gonna go with legion that's fine, but 295 00:21:08,960 --> 00:21:15,039 they are not. The Marian reforms kind of changed just the way this is 296 00:21:15,119 --> 00:21:18,160 pre the Roman army going like full sicko mode. Right, This is like 297 00:21:18,480 --> 00:21:25,799 the American army before World War Two, basically like world They're still pretty dope. 298 00:21:26,119 --> 00:21:30,359 They are the US army before before World War Two, but post World 299 00:21:30,359 --> 00:21:33,759 War Two, it just goes to a whole nother fucking level, like insane. 300 00:21:33,240 --> 00:21:38,160 Like if you look at the US military engagements from the end of World 301 00:21:38,200 --> 00:21:42,319 War Two on, like actual engagements like you know, certainly we didn't, 302 00:21:42,559 --> 00:21:47,960 Vietnam didn't, and the way we wanted it to Iraq and Iraq point two 303 00:21:48,000 --> 00:21:49,559 point zero in Afghanistan and the way we want to whatever. But in terms 304 00:21:49,599 --> 00:21:56,519 of like actual engagements, we never lose fights ever, it's only political losses. 305 00:21:56,880 --> 00:22:00,200 And that is eventually that kind of becomes like a Roman thing too for 306 00:22:00,240 --> 00:22:02,960 a while. But yeah, yeah, I'm just saying like they're not in 307 00:22:03,119 --> 00:22:07,839 even full sick o mode yet. Syracusan Sicilian forces immediately jump sides after this 308 00:22:08,000 --> 00:22:11,839 defeat. No one wants to be on the losing side. No, And 309 00:22:11,960 --> 00:22:17,480 also, aren't the Romans really more culturally actually, I guess that's debatable because 310 00:22:17,799 --> 00:22:22,720 the Greeks got their alphabet from the Phoenicians, so, but then the Romans 311 00:22:22,759 --> 00:22:26,000 are, I don't know. The Romans haven't conquered Greece yet, so they 312 00:22:26,039 --> 00:22:29,519 haven't really stolen a lot of their traditions yet. The Greeks adopted a lot 313 00:22:29,559 --> 00:22:33,680 more from the East and then took that to Sicily, where the Romans are. 314 00:22:33,799 --> 00:22:37,640 Romans adopted a lot more from the Gauls and the Celts. Correct early 315 00:22:37,680 --> 00:22:41,480 on, I think it was more yeah, and then but then once they 316 00:22:41,960 --> 00:22:45,680 were in quite a bit more contact with the Greeks sunting like that, they 317 00:22:45,680 --> 00:22:51,119 became more Greek. And then Rome expands everywhere and takes from everyone. Carthage 318 00:22:51,160 --> 00:22:56,440 builds up forces at Agrigentum, Rogantum lay siege. There's a bit of a 319 00:22:56,480 --> 00:23:02,000 starve off. They were certainly heard in the Carthage forces, but Roam themselves 320 00:23:02,039 --> 00:23:07,240 was lacking resources as it was truly the first time not fighting on the Italian 321 00:23:07,279 --> 00:23:11,480 peninsula and crossing water, so getting food and all the supplies they need across 322 00:23:11,519 --> 00:23:14,920 water was a bit of a problem, and it was eight I don't know 323 00:23:14,960 --> 00:23:18,279 what. We needed someone to look up the actual amount of mileage it is, 324 00:23:18,319 --> 00:23:22,759 but it's not very far, which is also at testament to the Roman's 325 00:23:22,839 --> 00:23:26,119 navy at this time being absolutely nothing. They're basically they have no barges. 326 00:23:26,240 --> 00:23:27,920 Yeah, they have no names. They're like pushing stuff and like hoping it 327 00:23:27,960 --> 00:23:32,799 floats. Yeah. But yeah, so they're getting starved off, and then 328 00:23:32,880 --> 00:23:37,519 something else happens, right, Carthage sends reinforcements. The siege, the Roman 329 00:23:37,559 --> 00:23:42,920 siege, Turpal siege powers, it's a siege outside of a siege, inside 330 00:23:42,960 --> 00:23:48,920 of a siege. It's in siege seption, in Schiegem, in Siegem. 331 00:23:52,279 --> 00:23:55,440 They're all losing their minds because they're essentially starve in and they're just like, 332 00:23:55,559 --> 00:23:57,960 fuck it, let's get on the battlefield, let's do this, let's handle 333 00:23:57,960 --> 00:24:02,880 this, let's handle business. Rum winds. And by wins, I mean 334 00:24:02,920 --> 00:24:07,559 they killed seven thousand Carthaginians goddamn, and lost thirty thousand men, but they 335 00:24:07,599 --> 00:24:12,359 won. It's a dub. I'm happy for them. They won with numbers 336 00:24:11,920 --> 00:24:17,480 that's like through bodies when you and your homies go out and you kind of 337 00:24:17,519 --> 00:24:21,799 have to, you know, take home the torta. It's still a dub. 338 00:24:21,920 --> 00:24:26,440 But is it? What's the torta? Large Mexican lady. Yeah, 339 00:24:26,440 --> 00:24:30,079 it's a win. It's a win. You're helping your boy out, That's 340 00:24:30,119 --> 00:24:36,400 what I'm saying. So he gets the dub, do you not? That's 341 00:24:36,440 --> 00:24:37,920 what I'm saying. It's exactly like this. You lost thirty thousand men. 342 00:24:40,240 --> 00:24:42,759 Rome wanted to build off the momentum for this win and take the entire island 343 00:24:42,759 --> 00:24:47,839 of Sicily, but that would require resources that they lacked in a navy they 344 00:24:47,839 --> 00:24:51,720 didn't have going against one of the best naval empires at that time, in 345 00:24:51,839 --> 00:24:57,640 Carthage, mind you. As luck would have it, the Carthaginian Quinquerian grounded 346 00:24:57,880 --> 00:25:03,519 on Italian soil. Roman Legion captured it, copied the design with the giant 347 00:25:03,559 --> 00:25:07,839 bronze brands in the front of the ships, and went to work on a 348 00:25:07,880 --> 00:25:11,559 fleet from scratch. They about one hundred and twenty warships in two months. 349 00:25:11,759 --> 00:25:17,039 It's it's like a thirty minute boat ride today across the Strait. Yeah, 350 00:25:17,119 --> 00:25:21,759 and Italy couldn't or Rome couldn't do that for the longest time until right now, 351 00:25:21,839 --> 00:25:26,079 until they have copy technology. They're the China of China. We did 352 00:25:26,079 --> 00:25:30,599 an episode on that not that long ago about how what China views. One 353 00:25:30,599 --> 00:25:33,680 of the main ways that empires rise is by stealing tech from other empires, 354 00:25:33,880 --> 00:25:41,920 and Rome did that consistently. Rome only stole Yes, I shields their gods. 355 00:25:41,759 --> 00:25:45,160 Good artist borrow great artists steel. Yeah, I'm a great artist. 356 00:25:45,440 --> 00:25:55,559 That was the greatest artist. So am I Dan Console Scipio Scipio Scipio, 357 00:25:55,640 --> 00:26:02,359 the younger Skipio goes out with his new boat to Lipara, believing he could 358 00:26:02,400 --> 00:26:06,680 convince them to join the Roman cause they entered the harbor and aur surrounded by 359 00:26:06,720 --> 00:26:11,440 a Carthaginian fleet. You may be able to copy someone's work, but when 360 00:26:11,480 --> 00:26:15,079 you have to put into practice of that knowledge that that was never truly yours, 361 00:26:15,599 --> 00:26:18,880 it quickly exposes you didn't know how to fight on water. Nope, 362 00:26:18,960 --> 00:26:23,359 not yet, big w for the Carthaginian not yet. Carthaginian Empire was built 363 00:26:23,400 --> 00:26:27,359 by seafaring people. It was in their blood. They were faster, fiercer, 364 00:26:29,240 --> 00:26:36,799 class and outmaneuvered the Romans with ease. Rarely adopted. The Roman fleet 365 00:26:37,200 --> 00:26:44,400 got pulverized and suffered a humilion in defeat. Cornelia Scipio or Scipio was given 366 00:26:44,480 --> 00:26:52,319 the nickname a Sina, which translates to donkey or ass. Yeah. I 367 00:26:52,400 --> 00:26:55,039 like donkey, but I actually think it's more insulting now to be called a 368 00:26:55,039 --> 00:26:57,240 donkey. Being called a donkey's yeah, way worse. Let's let's keep track 369 00:26:57,240 --> 00:27:03,079 of how many naval fleets Romans life. That is one so far, so 370 00:27:03,119 --> 00:27:06,519 far, not not the whole fleet though, it's just a couple of both. 371 00:27:06,599 --> 00:27:11,720 It don't matter, don't matter. Respawn. Yeah, so the Romans 372 00:27:11,720 --> 00:27:18,359 had a knack for replicating their enemies weapons and designs, but they also would 373 00:27:18,480 --> 00:27:25,680 like to improve on it. This is where this giant swivel and spiked boarding 374 00:27:25,720 --> 00:27:30,359 device called the CORVS is created by the Romans. I just love that they're 375 00:27:30,400 --> 00:27:34,400 like, they're essentially like Doude. You know what, Like, fighting on 376 00:27:34,480 --> 00:27:38,079 water is hard, but we're pretty thick at fighting on land. What if 377 00:27:38,079 --> 00:27:41,880 we make land fighting on water? Yeah? What if we just make a 378 00:27:41,920 --> 00:27:44,839 giant hammer? Yeah? What if we just land fight them on the water. 379 00:27:45,039 --> 00:27:47,599 You couldn't make land on the water, you idiot. Wait, hold 380 00:27:47,640 --> 00:27:51,960 on, hold on, we got no idea. Check out this plank I 381 00:27:52,039 --> 00:27:56,000 made with a knife in It just sticks into the oak and they're like, 382 00:27:56,039 --> 00:28:00,559 oh fuck, sick, bro. It's basically a like crane. It just 383 00:28:00,599 --> 00:28:03,480 swivels around and then dropping down and then you land fight on the water, 384 00:28:03,559 --> 00:28:08,319 and you also do some damage to their boat with a little spike. Not 385 00:28:08,599 --> 00:28:12,920 very aerodynamic though. Let's let's point that out as well, which is why 386 00:28:14,000 --> 00:28:18,039 Carthage was laughing at them when they saw it. Initially. Yeah, what 387 00:28:18,079 --> 00:28:22,759 the fuck is that thing? That's stupid? Yeah, the idiots giant Roman. 388 00:28:22,920 --> 00:28:27,000 So how was Carthage fighting on the water? Just like so that bronze, 389 00:28:27,359 --> 00:28:30,559 uh, the fact that he was talking about just shoots right through. 390 00:28:30,640 --> 00:28:36,680 That's my favorite through boats. That's my favorite part about the Confederate. So 391 00:28:36,759 --> 00:28:41,599 the Confederates made the first ironclad, right, and then Union came back with 392 00:28:41,640 --> 00:28:45,640 their little the monitored the little cheese boxing. But the Confederate one, they're 393 00:28:45,680 --> 00:28:48,359 like, all right, there's pull these cannons on it, and then you 394 00:28:48,400 --> 00:28:52,200 know what, fuck it, let's put a ram under it. So they 395 00:28:52,240 --> 00:28:56,599 just put like a ram underwater. Like several of the boats that the the 396 00:28:56,680 --> 00:29:00,160 CSS Merrimac sank were from ramming. Is it gonna keep talk about war that 397 00:29:00,200 --> 00:29:04,240 he knows about. I know about this, I'll fucking start dropping shit. 398 00:29:06,720 --> 00:29:11,119 When the Carthaginian fleet went to Ram, the Romans slammed down the Corvus and 399 00:29:11,160 --> 00:29:14,960 what board their enemy ships, turn in traditional sea battle into something more familiar 400 00:29:15,079 --> 00:29:18,160 in hand to hand combat. Into sixty BC, the Romans got their first 401 00:29:18,240 --> 00:29:25,920 naval win at the Battle of Male. What do were they were the Carthagenians 402 00:29:25,960 --> 00:29:27,960 even prepared for that? Was it just like boarding a cruise ship at that 403 00:29:29,000 --> 00:29:33,680 point? Like you have weapons and they don't really, Like I'm saying, 404 00:29:33,720 --> 00:29:37,400 like on the boats, were they even fucking prepared? Yeah, they had 405 00:29:37,440 --> 00:29:41,240 weapons, but like enough you know what I mean? Like, were they 406 00:29:41,279 --> 00:29:44,319 prepared for a boarding party? No, that's what That's what I'm saying. 407 00:29:44,319 --> 00:29:45,160 So it was a game changer. Yeah, Yes, that's that's what I'm 408 00:29:45,160 --> 00:29:48,160 saying. It's like I was just saying, is it like attacking a cruise 409 00:29:48,160 --> 00:29:49,640 ship? Like, yeah, I'm sure there's a couple of security guards. 410 00:29:49,720 --> 00:29:53,480 Yes, a cruise ship that tries to just run through fishing boats. But 411 00:29:53,720 --> 00:29:56,799 but the thing is, though their only weapon is the ram, maybe some 412 00:29:57,000 --> 00:30:02,680 archers, it's more like attacking like a cargo carrier where they put the water 413 00:30:02,759 --> 00:30:04,720 jets out for the Yeah, so it's like there's a little bit of defense, 414 00:30:04,880 --> 00:30:07,440 but not enough. Once you're on. Once you're on, you're good 415 00:30:07,480 --> 00:30:10,519 to go. You're on. I am the captain, know. Yeah. 416 00:30:10,880 --> 00:30:15,759 Carthage was stunned. The general in charge of the defeat, Hannibal Gisco, 417 00:30:15,480 --> 00:30:22,519 was of course crucified. Poor Gisco. Why even maybe your family would get 418 00:30:22,519 --> 00:30:23,680 fucked up if you didn't. I would just be like, I'll be jumping 419 00:30:23,720 --> 00:30:27,519 in the water now and swim in the other direction. Boys. The battle 420 00:30:27,519 --> 00:30:33,720 for Sicily turned into a slog siege is laid on town after town. Some 421 00:30:33,759 --> 00:30:37,440 would fall, Carthage would counterattack. Romans would answer, it's becoming a bit 422 00:30:37,440 --> 00:30:41,480 of a stalemate on the island, with territory getting swapped back and forth. 423 00:30:41,319 --> 00:30:48,839 In two fifty six PC console Marcus Attilius Regulus decided to forego more attacks on 424 00:30:48,880 --> 00:30:52,960 Sicily and made plans to just go for the head of the snake itself. 425 00:30:52,319 --> 00:30:56,720 Yep, just bazook Carthage right to Carthage, Baby, let's go run it 426 00:30:56,759 --> 00:31:03,039 to the end zone. The ramped up boat production and Carthage answered, hearing 427 00:31:03,079 --> 00:31:06,759 of these plans, It all came to a head at the Battle of Cape 428 00:31:07,279 --> 00:31:14,759 Economis, where six hundred and eighty warships and three hundred thousand men took part 429 00:31:14,799 --> 00:31:18,759 in one of the largest naval conflicts in human history. So I love the 430 00:31:18,799 --> 00:31:22,440 setup for this all right, So Carthage does like a blockade, so it's 431 00:31:22,480 --> 00:31:25,680 just a straight line of all the carthage Inian ships, I think, more 432 00:31:25,720 --> 00:31:30,440 ships than they've ever had to begin with, right, and then Rome is 433 00:31:30,480 --> 00:31:33,519 coming down and they do like a mighty ducks flying V formation because like we're 434 00:31:33,559 --> 00:31:37,720 gonna punch it the wedge yea, yeah, like we're gonna we're gonna wedge 435 00:31:37,759 --> 00:31:41,960 it through like we're the bears. Give it to the fridge there behind the 436 00:31:41,000 --> 00:31:45,119 net, they're like the view exactly exactly. So they're they're vet up because 437 00:31:45,200 --> 00:31:49,599 Roman is coming to see Rome's coming to siege Carthage. So they're also pulling 438 00:31:49,640 --> 00:31:53,240 a bunch of ships behind them with like farm animals and stuff to build, 439 00:31:53,359 --> 00:31:57,279 so like they're they're adi so they gotta stay tight and Carthage is spread out. 440 00:31:59,640 --> 00:32:04,039 So but the dummy tactics you gonna talk about keep going. So as 441 00:32:04,359 --> 00:32:08,319 you know, Rome tries to pierce through this thin line. Carthage just kind 442 00:32:08,319 --> 00:32:14,079 of surrounds them and golfs them. And what is like on a on land 443 00:32:14,119 --> 00:32:17,759 known as like a pincer, Yeah, a pincer formation, but on sea, 444 00:32:19,519 --> 00:32:22,319 I think Hannah or yeah, Hannibal to younger takes a lot of this 445 00:32:22,680 --> 00:32:27,079 and applies it to his land battles later in the Second Punic War, but 446 00:32:27,319 --> 00:32:31,519 in that case he literally has that pincer movement was eventually named after the most 447 00:32:31,519 --> 00:32:37,119 famous battle it was used in, called a Kane, But here it's a 448 00:32:37,119 --> 00:32:42,279 little different. Yeah, Carthaginians generals lord in the Romans, and the Romans 449 00:32:42,319 --> 00:32:46,839 ultimately came out on top, taking down ninety four Carthaginian ships and forty thousand 450 00:32:46,920 --> 00:32:52,480 soldiers while only suffering twenty four ships and ten thousand casualties of their own. 451 00:32:52,200 --> 00:32:58,920 But I mean, I think as far as the game plan went, Carthage 452 00:32:59,559 --> 00:33:02,119 like pulled what they wanted to do. I think it was a scaling issue. 453 00:33:02,240 --> 00:33:07,440 It was kind of like the team MMA in Russia exactly knock out you 454 00:33:07,480 --> 00:33:10,480 know, two or three guys. It's ten on ten, then it becomes 455 00:33:10,519 --> 00:33:15,279 ten on seven, and then it just gets easier. I mean, but 456 00:33:15,359 --> 00:33:17,599 then you just need to go into straight up like phalanx battle tactics, Like 457 00:33:17,599 --> 00:33:21,880 you can't just be like, you know, because I've seen those videos before 458 00:33:21,960 --> 00:33:23,559 where they're like everyone's just fighting and then yeah, a guy gets knocked out 459 00:33:23,599 --> 00:33:27,799 and then now there's somebody's two on one. You got to basically from the 460 00:33:27,839 --> 00:33:30,759 beginning go into a formation. I'm sure the first because by the way, 461 00:33:30,799 --> 00:33:35,839 the first battles that ever happened in modern human history. But by that I 462 00:33:35,880 --> 00:33:39,200 mean, like Paleolithic is not really easy to maneuver these boats, which was 463 00:33:39,200 --> 00:33:43,160 the whole point of the boat is there were so many boats. I think 464 00:33:43,240 --> 00:33:47,240 the whole thing this is all on c they're all jammed together. They spread 465 00:33:47,240 --> 00:33:52,799 out to three different like skirmishes, but it's still hard to move, especially 466 00:33:52,839 --> 00:33:55,839 when shits sink in things are on fire. They should have just been like 467 00:33:55,880 --> 00:34:00,559 scramble, like everyone just goes on their own yea. But then you go 468 00:34:00,559 --> 00:34:04,119 back to Carthage. You can get crucified. True, you can't go back 469 00:34:04,160 --> 00:34:07,720 to Carthage. You can gified. Just can't go back home. If you 470 00:34:07,759 --> 00:34:09,559 lose, you just gotta be like I'm out. You just need to go 471 00:34:09,559 --> 00:34:15,880 to area which you don't even know exists at that one degree. After this 472 00:34:15,960 --> 00:34:19,639 victory a smooth sound to Africa, the Phoenix decided to put all their resources 473 00:34:19,639 --> 00:34:23,840 to defending Carthage and let Rome have free rain to plunder Aspis in the countryside. 474 00:34:24,599 --> 00:34:30,960 Regulus and his forces begin their march to Carthage, where they allegedly encounter 475 00:34:31,039 --> 00:34:37,440 what ancient Roman scholar Livy described as a dragon. Okay, I guess they 476 00:34:37,519 --> 00:34:42,519 conquered the dragon. So they're in northern Africa just like pillaging these small towns. 477 00:34:42,679 --> 00:34:45,719 Like I'm assuming completely different ethnicities of people, to be honest, you 478 00:34:45,719 --> 00:34:50,400 think they're just like merked a giraffe probably or a big lizard. Probably. 479 00:34:50,480 --> 00:34:52,960 When did the Sahara become this to him? Remember it was probably already the 480 00:34:53,000 --> 00:34:55,280 Sahara at this point, but there was a while where the Sahara was like 481 00:34:55,880 --> 00:34:59,119 green. Yeah, it's some perfect, really lush. Could these be like 482 00:34:59,239 --> 00:35:02,599 large snake creek good bit. Yeah yeah, but I like to think, 483 00:35:02,800 --> 00:35:06,800 oh we took down a dragon, it's just a fucking giraffe. Honestly, 484 00:35:06,840 --> 00:35:13,880 this was just a like pillaging fuck fest. It was a twenty five BC. 485 00:35:14,800 --> 00:35:17,159 It stopped being kind of lush two thousand years yeah, So it was 486 00:35:17,159 --> 00:35:22,039 when they were building the Pyramids. Basically, the Carthaginians that weren't killed or 487 00:35:22,079 --> 00:35:25,519 captured and sold into slavery in the countryside all bolted for the city of Carthage 488 00:35:25,559 --> 00:35:30,239 and it became overran with traumatized citizens of the state, and resources and food 489 00:35:30,239 --> 00:35:37,119 were growing pretty quick. Regulus, realizing his year as console was almost up 490 00:35:37,639 --> 00:35:43,480 and he was so close to victory, he asked for the unconditional surrender of 491 00:35:43,519 --> 00:35:47,519 Carthage so he would get all the glory and not get foltured by his successor. 492 00:35:49,079 --> 00:35:52,440 So this is like a it's like a face. Let's use a fantasy 493 00:35:52,440 --> 00:35:55,239 football analogy here. It's the running back getting down to the one yard line 494 00:35:55,360 --> 00:35:59,559 and they bring in the third down running back. Yes, they bring down 495 00:35:59,559 --> 00:36:02,360 the goalie back and you don't get no, no, no, yeah, 496 00:36:02,480 --> 00:36:07,920 give come on, but I just ran at sixty yards over the course of 497 00:36:07,000 --> 00:36:10,320 like eight downs. Come on, and they're like, now we got to 498 00:36:10,320 --> 00:36:15,159 bring in the biggest motherfucker you've ever seen. So he's like a one yard 499 00:36:15,719 --> 00:36:20,239 or you know what. Another good acknowledge for that is just Tim Tebow snaking 500 00:36:20,280 --> 00:36:24,519 touchdowns from his own running backs. Yeah, yeah, that's how you went 501 00:36:24,559 --> 00:36:30,159 a Heisman, though you still here a goal line back who throws the ball. 502 00:36:30,400 --> 00:36:37,119 Yeah, basically taking great offense to his harsh demands. It reinvigorates Carthage. 503 00:36:37,360 --> 00:36:42,119 They hire a mercenary Spartan and this is your boy Xanthis I believe xanthepis 504 00:36:42,199 --> 00:36:47,039 Xanthias yess xanthepis to lead. They're already incredibly diverse. Let's talk about Anthus 505 00:36:47,079 --> 00:36:52,119 for a minute, and unorganized land forces. He's a Spartan Spartan. So 506 00:36:52,159 --> 00:36:54,360 they were like, oh crap, we're We're like, hold up. The 507 00:36:54,440 --> 00:36:58,960 siege is going horrible. All the resources are running out, and he's like, 508 00:36:59,320 --> 00:37:01,880 let's bring in the Greek. This is this is boondock Saints, like, 509 00:37:02,639 --> 00:37:07,440 let's let's they're calling the fixer. Yeah, exactly, the guy the 510 00:37:07,480 --> 00:37:12,119 prisoner who's in a bird cage, he's so dangerous exactly. Yeah. So 511 00:37:12,199 --> 00:37:15,159 he comes in and it's like, we have nowhere else to go. Yeah, 512 00:37:15,480 --> 00:37:19,159 let's talk about some of the So there's some early land battles between them 513 00:37:19,679 --> 00:37:23,000 before they bring They bring in Xantheus, and Carthage is just getting their butts 514 00:37:23,079 --> 00:37:29,800 kicked because apparently what they would do is not lead with the war elephants. 515 00:37:30,440 --> 00:37:34,119 No, so they're up on this hill, which seems like a mistake. 516 00:37:36,039 --> 00:37:40,159 It depends, Man, I look in my experience fighting with war and against 517 00:37:40,199 --> 00:37:45,679 war elephants uh in Rome Total War uh and also in Age of Empires and 518 00:37:45,679 --> 00:37:51,920 stuff like that. You guys are both insufferable this episode. No, But 519 00:37:52,000 --> 00:37:54,880 like in Rome Total War, if you just like send the elephants at the 520 00:37:55,039 --> 00:38:00,719 enemy, like first you'll get a unit, you'll knock unit or two out 521 00:38:00,760 --> 00:38:02,840 maybe, but then they're just they are gonna die, like they're gonna get 522 00:38:02,840 --> 00:38:07,719 surrounded. They're gonna fucking die. You need to use them as you want 523 00:38:07,719 --> 00:38:10,119 to use them fairly quickly in the battle. But like you want an intimidation 524 00:38:10,199 --> 00:38:13,920 factor. You want they're in the back, they're not really gonna do much 525 00:38:13,920 --> 00:38:16,159 and if they do get spooked, they're gonna run and kill your army. 526 00:38:16,320 --> 00:38:20,679 You want the enemy. It's it's honestly, it's kind of like any other 527 00:38:20,719 --> 00:38:23,719 cavalry to an extent, like you want the enemy engaged and then you use 528 00:38:23,800 --> 00:38:28,760 them to you use that, you use that unit, those units to break 529 00:38:28,800 --> 00:38:30,559 them. Well, you understood they had the Numidian Cavalry, which was some 530 00:38:30,639 --> 00:38:36,159 of Africa's finest horse riders, which is basically the doth racky of Africa at 531 00:38:36,159 --> 00:38:38,880 this point in time. Horse riders and spear throwers, and a lot of 532 00:38:38,920 --> 00:38:43,960 the base camps were on these hilly uneven terrains so they could look down upon 533 00:38:44,000 --> 00:38:50,119 the roaming encampments. But their cavalry and elephants were basically rendered useless what coming 534 00:38:50,119 --> 00:38:53,199 down the hills exactly because they always fought like uneven Land. They didn't have 535 00:38:53,199 --> 00:39:00,079 really good generals at this point except for a few who carthage. Okay, 536 00:39:00,079 --> 00:39:04,360 crucifying, they keep crucifying. Imagine like all they're good leaders. Grant loses 537 00:39:04,400 --> 00:39:07,119 one battle in the Civil War and they're like, well, buddy, it 538 00:39:07,199 --> 00:39:10,599 was a nice run. So dudes are getting promotion on the fly. And 539 00:39:10,920 --> 00:39:15,079 yeah, it's just like Hodgepodge Meltain Pod army. Yeah, nobody speaks the 540 00:39:15,079 --> 00:39:21,719 same language. You're constantly running into issues with your own men. That's actually 541 00:39:22,199 --> 00:39:27,519 a very underrated problem in a lot of armies over history in that like you 542 00:39:27,639 --> 00:39:30,639 use it. It's like like the Persians had this problem, lobulous problem where 543 00:39:30,639 --> 00:39:35,599 like you build this humongous army, but they speak twenty different languages because it's 544 00:39:35,599 --> 00:39:38,679 from all your diverse different territories or whatever, and it's just like, you 545 00:39:38,760 --> 00:39:45,079 gotta have like communications, the fucking problem. Xanthemis comes in, change the 546 00:39:45,119 --> 00:39:50,000 shit up it does, takes his army U now leading with the war offense, 547 00:39:50,599 --> 00:39:57,760 to meet Regulus at the Bigratis River, and he pulls off decisive victory, 548 00:39:58,119 --> 00:40:02,599 even capturing Regulus. Oh so they got the console. We don't negotiate 549 00:40:02,599 --> 00:40:07,800 with Terrass. So his reward for potentially saving Carthage, Xanthepis was chased out 550 00:40:07,800 --> 00:40:13,559 of town. Why Carthage the shine? The shine was too heavy on, 551 00:40:13,760 --> 00:40:17,079 too jealous. He came through stunting so hard. Oh whatever, dude, 552 00:40:17,079 --> 00:40:21,840 We could have fucking led with the war elephants, fucking like anyone could have 553 00:40:21,840 --> 00:40:23,519 came up with Nobody could have said, let's do the elephants first. Oh, 554 00:40:23,559 --> 00:40:27,480 do the elephants first. That's not even that creative. No, it 555 00:40:27,519 --> 00:40:29,880 was more like Drake. It was like, oh, this dude, this 556 00:40:29,960 --> 00:40:32,320 dude's a problem. We got we gotta we gotta get him out, sending 557 00:40:32,400 --> 00:40:37,280 Kendrick to kill him pretty much. I think they were maybe concerned that if 558 00:40:37,320 --> 00:40:40,800 he just kept winning battles, maybe the Carthage people would be like, hey, 559 00:40:42,119 --> 00:40:45,280 maybe he should just run everything. Yeah, you do it. The 560 00:40:45,280 --> 00:40:49,880 guy who keeps winning a bad way to run, and he shouldn't be afraid 561 00:40:49,920 --> 00:40:52,239 of success. Now yeah, yeah, you don't chase off the talent. 562 00:40:52,480 --> 00:40:55,400 No, no, So we got Regulus and he's captured. He is, 563 00:40:58,320 --> 00:41:04,519 So Regulus goes back to the Carthage. They do, but they ask that 564 00:41:04,639 --> 00:41:09,840 he goes to Rome ask for their unconditional surrender. Sure, and then after 565 00:41:12,559 --> 00:41:16,360 come on back and die. Oh, then we need your word that you're 566 00:41:16,400 --> 00:41:20,119 gonna go to Rome. You're gonna ask for their surrender. You guys are 567 00:41:20,119 --> 00:41:22,159 gonna surrender. You're gonna come back with the peace treaty, the offering, 568 00:41:22,880 --> 00:41:27,760 bend the knee, and then also what we're gonna take your head right then 569 00:41:27,800 --> 00:41:32,840 we will behead you after you've done all these things for us. So Regulus, 570 00:41:34,599 --> 00:41:40,159 being a man of honor, does just that. What he goes back 571 00:41:40,159 --> 00:41:44,960 to Rome. Obviously, the senate are like, why the hell will we 572 00:41:45,000 --> 00:41:49,800 take the l We're so close to catching the dub Regulus agrees and they should 573 00:41:49,800 --> 00:41:53,079 continue to fight. But since he gave Carthage his word he would return, 574 00:41:54,440 --> 00:41:59,000 and he did just that. He went back to Carthage was torched to death, 575 00:41:59,800 --> 00:42:07,079 and he became an immortalized symbol of Roman virtue by Carthage for keeping his 576 00:42:07,119 --> 00:42:10,360 word. So he got what he originally wanted because he got his statues. 577 00:42:10,840 --> 00:42:15,599 Want to make a statue, ye, just by the people on the other 578 00:42:15,679 --> 00:42:22,480 side, because he's a man of his words. Flags fly forever. You 579 00:42:22,519 --> 00:42:25,679 didn't specify where he won't wear that flag was gonna fly, but hooker by 580 00:42:25,719 --> 00:42:31,000 crook. Roman ships went to pick up the rest of the soldiers stuck in 581 00:42:31,039 --> 00:42:37,599 Africa after Regulus gets executed, to regroup and strategize again in Sicily. After 582 00:42:37,639 --> 00:42:42,719 picking up the stranded, they were caught in a massive storm on the way 583 00:42:42,760 --> 00:42:46,039 back off the coast. In two hundred and eighty four Roman ships, or 584 00:42:46,079 --> 00:42:51,159 nearly eighty percent of their entire fleet, was lost, and over one hundred 585 00:42:51,199 --> 00:42:54,880 thousand men drowned. Good lord, it'd be a sick place to send James 586 00:42:54,880 --> 00:43:00,039 Cameron. Just find all those ships. Yeah, you'll find one hundred thousand 587 00:43:00,119 --> 00:43:07,360 Roman bones loosely, all in the same place. Yeah, although they're obviously 588 00:43:07,400 --> 00:43:09,400 dissolved, I guess of that, but you can find other stuff. Would 589 00:43:09,400 --> 00:43:12,559 they be dissolved? Oh yeah, yeah, you're right. Yeah, they're 590 00:43:12,679 --> 00:43:15,960 long God, but Uh, the all their other shit should still be there, 591 00:43:16,039 --> 00:43:20,280 like any metal yeah, whatever, that'll be there. Get those bronze 592 00:43:20,360 --> 00:43:25,079 ram in devices. Hell yeah, get the corpus. They go back to 593 00:43:25,119 --> 00:43:30,440 pick up the boys and then everyone's gone. They took an L from gods. 594 00:43:30,639 --> 00:43:35,239 Yeah, so in the Carthage is like, all right, ball, 595 00:43:35,519 --> 00:43:39,079 You'll start to realize that Rome takes a lot of nature. L's not a 596 00:43:39,119 --> 00:43:45,239 whole lot of l's on the battlefield Rome. But Rome also doesn't take no 597 00:43:45,400 --> 00:43:50,599 for an answer. They don't even even if it seems overwhelmingly obvious that the 598 00:43:50,679 --> 00:43:55,119 answer is no. They themselves are like no, they're too aggressive. Yeah, 599 00:43:55,159 --> 00:44:01,280 like they just no. Is like, there's rob the console only has 600 00:44:01,280 --> 00:44:05,960 a year, Yeah, to accomplish what he wants to do. And when 601 00:44:06,000 --> 00:44:09,039 you make glory, when swelory When when one console gets a no, that's 602 00:44:09,039 --> 00:44:13,719 just that's not a console to or that's not a node to Rome, that's 603 00:44:13,719 --> 00:44:17,039 a note of the console, then there's a new console. Question gets reasked, 604 00:44:17,199 --> 00:44:21,000 all gas, no breaks, Yeah, all gas. But we are 605 00:44:21,039 --> 00:44:29,159 on now leon Roy Jenkins. Uh the third fleet of ships not yet or 606 00:44:29,159 --> 00:44:30,840 they're building it. Sorry. This is the second this second one that goes 607 00:44:30,880 --> 00:44:34,679 down, uh real quick, before we keep going, we do have some 608 00:44:34,760 --> 00:44:37,519 ads. First up, head to Factor Meals dot Com slash Softcore fifty and 609 00:44:37,639 --> 00:44:42,920 use the code Softcore fifty to get fifty percent off your first box plus twenty 610 00:44:42,920 --> 00:44:46,840 percent off your next month. 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Maybe 689 00:50:04,079 --> 00:50:07,679 not jobs, but maybe slaves, probably slaves. Yeah, whatever, it 690 00:50:07,760 --> 00:50:15,320 still is creating jobs because there's just not they're not that many slaves. They 691 00:50:15,320 --> 00:50:21,079 send their brand new fleet out and it gets caught in another massacre of a 692 00:50:21,119 --> 00:50:24,920 storm and they lose one hundred and fifty ships almost immediately. Eh, right 693 00:50:24,920 --> 00:50:30,280 after they build two hundred and twenty eh, build some more. At this 694 00:50:30,400 --> 00:50:35,559 point they do. Rome was still not deterred and went back to building more 695 00:50:35,599 --> 00:50:38,440 ships, as Carthage was just stunned at the audacity of their enemies actions. 696 00:50:38,559 --> 00:50:44,639 Spite me once, these guys will not stop. Yeah, they keep just 697 00:50:44,719 --> 00:50:49,199 getting lost to the sea, but they come back strong. There's nothing like 698 00:50:49,320 --> 00:50:53,079 Neptune literally rises up every time they touch water and just murders them. And 699 00:50:53,119 --> 00:50:59,239 they're like, you won't do it again. You won't Rome decides though, 700 00:50:59,400 --> 00:51:02,519 maybe let's shift the war back to Sicily. It's closer. You don't have 701 00:51:02,519 --> 00:51:07,079 to navigate the season, Yeah, a little easier to They lay siege to 702 00:51:07,239 --> 00:51:13,559 the incredibly fortified city of Lily Bayum in two hundred and fifty PC that would 703 00:51:13,599 --> 00:51:16,960 last for nine years. During this time, Carthage sends their best military mind, 704 00:51:17,519 --> 00:51:24,679 Hamilcar Barka Handibal's dad, to Sicily, and he starts a gorilla warfare 705 00:51:24,679 --> 00:51:30,199 campaign picking off Roman legions behind the enemy lines. Okay, I feel like 706 00:51:30,239 --> 00:51:34,079 Sicily is not that big, but I guess everything is bigger back then because 707 00:51:34,119 --> 00:51:37,239 you can't travel as fast. So they're laying siege on this giant town, 708 00:51:37,519 --> 00:51:43,800 this giant city, on Sicily, and Hamilcar is just kind of going rogue, 709 00:51:43,960 --> 00:51:46,639 just hitting the supply line, doing his own thing. Yeah. Yeah, 710 00:51:47,320 --> 00:51:52,800 so he's not even really attached to anybody else in the Carthage military. 711 00:51:52,199 --> 00:51:57,880 Also, I know they're laying siege to it, but like, does little 712 00:51:57,920 --> 00:52:05,280 Bio or whatever still have access to the sea uninterrupted? So it does. 713 00:52:05,440 --> 00:52:07,960 It's a port, right, which means there's no blockade at this time. 714 00:52:08,039 --> 00:52:13,119 Now. Yeah, so it's fine, Like the whole point of a siege 715 00:52:13,239 --> 00:52:16,840 is like, you can't get stuff. We surrounded you. Romans try to 716 00:52:16,840 --> 00:52:21,719 have a little blockade right there, but it's not really successful what they're doing, 717 00:52:21,960 --> 00:52:24,880 right, so supply they just built these boats again, Supplies still come 718 00:52:25,960 --> 00:52:29,679 pouring in, because again, the whole point of a siege is like in 719 00:52:29,800 --> 00:52:34,599 four years, you won't have any food left. But if you have an 720 00:52:34,599 --> 00:52:38,400 open port and you're a part of a naval empire and no one can blockade 721 00:52:38,440 --> 00:52:43,079 your port from let it getting shit in there, then then your siege is 722 00:52:43,159 --> 00:52:45,800 just you're just standing outside of a city at that point, true, man, 723 00:52:45,800 --> 00:52:50,719 At this point, come, Yeah, most of Carthag's ships are tied 724 00:52:50,800 --> 00:52:52,119 up in the war effort, and a lot of them have been destroyed. 725 00:52:52,159 --> 00:52:55,960 They aren't churning ships out like Romas. I don't think they're like rebuilding their 726 00:52:57,039 --> 00:53:00,519 navy quite as much. Rome's taking these huge l's and Carthage just taking like 727 00:53:00,800 --> 00:53:05,400 little percentages here and there by a thousand cuts. Yeah, like Carthage is 728 00:53:05,719 --> 00:53:12,039 your RPG player, and they're not getting heels. Yeah, but the war 729 00:53:12,199 --> 00:53:15,400 see lands start to grind to a standstill. At this time, Roman Council 730 00:53:15,519 --> 00:53:22,679 Claudius Pulcher once to go off the map and attack the Carthage fleet at Drypana. 731 00:53:22,519 --> 00:53:27,079 Before engaging, however, he tried to feed some chickens to see if 732 00:53:27,119 --> 00:53:30,119 it was a sign from the gods that they would feast. The chickens would 733 00:53:30,159 --> 00:53:35,480 not eat, however, so poultr delayed the attack, waiting for another sign. 734 00:53:35,639 --> 00:53:42,760 Smart. Smart. The gods answered by having the rum and boats dismantled 735 00:53:42,760 --> 00:53:45,800 by Carthaginians. What like they showed up as a press attack, pulled them 736 00:53:45,840 --> 00:53:52,320 apart or ram them. Okay, classic Carthaginians, Yeah, naval tactics, 737 00:53:52,400 --> 00:53:54,559 Yeah, ram through them. So he didn't read the sign right. The 738 00:53:54,639 --> 00:53:59,239 chickens weren't eating, and it's like you both ain't gonna eat either. Well, 739 00:53:59,280 --> 00:54:01,639 this is also like an over coaching tactic too, because the Romans at 740 00:54:01,679 --> 00:54:06,880 this point in time have pulled the corpuses off the ships. But what the 741 00:54:06,920 --> 00:54:09,880 corpus? Oh yeah, so the thing that was basically winning them all their 742 00:54:09,920 --> 00:54:14,440 battles on the rebuilding process, they were like, yeah, we don't really 743 00:54:14,440 --> 00:54:17,599 need they're getting too cute yep, what got them to the dance they no 744 00:54:17,639 --> 00:54:21,679 longer took. Yeah, it's like type of thing where it's like there was 745 00:54:21,719 --> 00:54:23,119 a time in colleg football for a while where you do the spread offense. 746 00:54:23,159 --> 00:54:25,840 But then people would be like, we gotta grow up, man, We 747 00:54:25,880 --> 00:54:29,719 can't just keep doing the spread, you know, like on the rock. 748 00:54:29,840 --> 00:54:30,840 Yeah, but you got you gotta be like if you want to be like 749 00:54:30,880 --> 00:54:35,280 a real successful team, you gotta start, you know, yeah, pounding 750 00:54:35,320 --> 00:54:37,280 the rock. Are you getting a little more pro style? Like, Okay, 751 00:54:37,320 --> 00:54:39,519 it's fine the spread, goddess this far, It's like, no, 752 00:54:39,639 --> 00:54:44,880 dude, keep slinging it, slinging, sling it forever away from the bubble 753 00:54:44,880 --> 00:54:51,039 screen. Also, another storm just savages a Roman fleet and fifty thousand more 754 00:54:51,119 --> 00:54:55,199 men die. Is this? I feel like the Mediterranean is kind of storm 755 00:54:55,280 --> 00:55:00,760 free. It must have hit a bad month, like for real, like 756 00:55:00,119 --> 00:55:07,760 the Mediterranean, So like southern California is considered a Mediterranean climate, right, 757 00:55:07,000 --> 00:55:10,679 Okay, there's earthquakes certainly there, but that's not even a Mediterranean thing. 758 00:55:10,679 --> 00:55:15,079 It's just where la is but in San Francisco and stuff is. But like, 759 00:55:15,599 --> 00:55:20,519 in general, it's pretty mild in terms of like storms and shit like 760 00:55:20,559 --> 00:55:29,400 that. Global warming bro oh hmmm hm different times. Yeah. Well, 761 00:55:29,679 --> 00:55:35,800 also gods attracted yeah yeah. Also the Carthaginians apparently had obviously the ball. 762 00:55:36,000 --> 00:55:38,679 This Ball a storm god. No, he's a plant god plant fertility. 763 00:55:39,239 --> 00:55:45,679 But it requires rain for plant fertility, so maybe he does control the weather. 764 00:55:45,880 --> 00:55:51,079 Okay, I don't know. Oh no, no, yeah. Storm 765 00:55:51,280 --> 00:55:55,920 Ball was particularly associated with the storm and fertility god Hadad and his local manifestations. 766 00:55:55,960 --> 00:56:00,920 So like balls, they just make Ball got of everything he was. 767 00:56:00,960 --> 00:56:02,199 I mean, he was their main guy. He was there, dude, 768 00:56:04,079 --> 00:56:08,239 so he probably took over multi He wore many hats, so Hadad was Ball's 769 00:56:08,239 --> 00:56:12,880 boy, I think. Okay, So like Ball would just be like, 770 00:56:13,159 --> 00:56:17,119 hey, my guys or are in trouble. I'm gonna call my best friend, 771 00:56:17,159 --> 00:56:21,400 the storm god. It's a good plan. Yeah yeah, yeah, 772 00:56:21,679 --> 00:56:23,920 it seems sorry. Ball is the god of fertility, weather, rain, 773 00:56:24,039 --> 00:56:27,760 wind, lightning, seasons, war, and sailors. There you go. 774 00:56:27,960 --> 00:56:30,880 So this is uh oh dude, Carthage probably sacrificed so many children during this 775 00:56:30,920 --> 00:56:35,760 time over twenty three years. Oh how many kids? How did they even 776 00:56:35,800 --> 00:56:43,159 have any people left at that point? It's like the Ukraine pretty much. 777 00:56:43,920 --> 00:56:47,840 After twenty three years, both sides were exhausted. They had no money, 778 00:56:47,920 --> 00:56:52,960 no supplies, no men, and neither was particularly close to claiming the overall 779 00:56:52,039 --> 00:56:58,679 win, Carthage called back much of their naval and landforces and left Hamilcar to 780 00:56:58,760 --> 00:57:02,880 essentially fend for himself in Sicily, thinking there was no way Rome would continue 781 00:57:02,920 --> 00:57:10,880 to triple and quadruple and just a hundred down on their new fleet. They 782 00:57:10,920 --> 00:57:15,639 would just keep building boats. But they're wrong. No for an answer. 783 00:57:15,760 --> 00:57:20,679 No, no is never a final answer to Rome. It's an answer. 784 00:57:21,880 --> 00:57:23,400 But they're just like, all right, it's like the worst, the most 785 00:57:23,440 --> 00:57:27,480 annoying salesman you've ever dealt with. They're like, Okay, I hear you, 786 00:57:27,519 --> 00:57:31,280 I hear you. I better like there was ever you live in a 787 00:57:31,320 --> 00:57:35,400 house, right, yeah, if you get the fucking bug people al soliciting 788 00:57:35,440 --> 00:57:38,920 by fuck dude. No, it's more like startup culture again. They're just 789 00:57:38,960 --> 00:57:44,639 like, we're failing. Let's spend our way out of this. Something will 790 00:57:44,639 --> 00:57:49,760 make it big. Yeah. Carthage turned much of their military fleet back into 791 00:57:49,800 --> 00:57:52,679 merchant ships and tried to get back to making that sweet, sweet trade in 792 00:57:52,719 --> 00:57:59,760 money, unaware that Rome refused to fizzle out. The final straw was at 793 00:57:59,800 --> 00:58:05,039 the End Gates, where the new Roman fleet dismantled a now underfunded and minimal 794 00:58:05,199 --> 00:58:10,840 Carthage war fleet Realizing Rome would never quit under any circumstances, Carthage called for 795 00:58:10,880 --> 00:58:15,800 Hamilcar to negotiate a peace deal. Hamilcar, displeased with the order and film 796 00:58:15,840 --> 00:58:22,599 betrayed by his own senate, hinted it off to a subordinate Gisco. I 797 00:58:22,679 --> 00:58:24,639 like, that's just such a nightmare to be like, oh my god, 798 00:58:25,199 --> 00:58:30,519 oh my god, they're back. Oh Jesus Christ, they will not stop. 799 00:58:30,599 --> 00:58:35,320 Also, Hamilcar has to be thinking, they're asking me to surrender. 800 00:58:35,840 --> 00:58:39,280 But everyone that surrenders or loses a bat or does anything gets crucified. Right, 801 00:58:40,039 --> 00:58:45,880 what am I gonna do? He's just been playing solo campaign, just 802 00:58:46,039 --> 00:58:50,400 crushing it. He's at the blackjack table. Yeah, he's doing well. 803 00:58:50,480 --> 00:58:52,920 Yeah yeah yeah. So he's like, what do you mean me surrender? 804 00:58:53,239 --> 00:58:59,679 What we have to go home? It's your problem, Yeah, it's marketing 805 00:58:59,719 --> 00:59:05,119 problem. Rushing it in Sicily the Treaty of Lutatius. I believe it's called 806 00:59:05,159 --> 00:59:09,960 Lutatious. I didn't look it up. Whatever was signed, Carthage evacuated Sicily, 807 00:59:10,119 --> 00:59:15,960 handed over all Roman prisoners, and agreed to a payment of thirty two 808 00:59:15,039 --> 00:59:20,800 hundred talents of silvery year to the Romans over the next ten years, which 809 00:59:22,199 --> 00:59:23,880 I didn't do the translation with a lot of money. Yeah, I'm sure 810 00:59:24,679 --> 00:59:28,039 it's like a crippling amount of money. Well, they hit them. They 811 00:59:28,079 --> 00:59:31,480 hit them with the twenty two thousand silver talents they had to pay over twenty 812 00:59:31,559 --> 00:59:36,559 years, and they were like Gucci, and they came back with the Nah, 813 00:59:36,599 --> 00:59:38,719 we're gonna need that like another ten on top of that, and then 814 00:59:38,719 --> 00:59:43,800 I'm gonna need it in ten. I think it's worth noting that Carthage did 815 00:59:43,880 --> 00:59:49,480 control the biggest silver mines in the known world at that time. Spain good 816 00:59:49,480 --> 00:59:52,679 silver country. Not yet, No, Yeah they were, they were mining 817 00:59:52,679 --> 00:59:55,880 silver in Spain. The silver never leaves, no, But I thought it 818 00:59:57,039 --> 01:00:01,639 was Hannibal's campaign in Spain where they gained those silver mines. I'm pretty sure 819 01:00:01,639 --> 01:00:05,639 they already had them. There could be wrong with that, but I could 820 01:00:05,679 --> 01:00:10,559 have sworn they already had him Rome along with the silver, and Sicily took 821 01:00:10,760 --> 01:00:16,639 Sardina and Corsica without conflict, even though that was not a part of the 822 01:00:16,639 --> 01:00:22,400 treaty like we had Sicily. Those kind of looked like Sicily. Their islands 823 01:00:22,440 --> 01:00:28,599 they're around us. Corsica obviously the birthplace of Napoleon. Yep, these harsh 824 01:00:28,679 --> 01:00:34,480 and even unagreed to terms led to a simmeron rage and Carthage, specifically in 825 01:00:34,519 --> 01:00:39,280 the household of Hamil called Barca, who would of course passed down his unfiltered 826 01:00:39,320 --> 01:00:44,360 hatred for the Romans to his son Hannibal. Thank god he didn't have any 827 01:00:44,440 --> 01:00:47,480 Jews to blame. It's like Germany between World War One and World War Two. 828 01:00:47,480 --> 01:00:51,039 They're like, I swear to God, we should have won. We 829 01:00:51,079 --> 01:00:55,360 should have won. Somebody's fault. That's kind of how animals like the politicians. 830 01:00:55,480 --> 01:01:00,599 Yeah, it's like those damn politicians made me surrender. And he's like, 831 01:01:00,639 --> 01:01:04,599 now we got to go basically go to Spain and murder a bunch of 832 01:01:04,639 --> 01:01:07,320 people and get all this money for them. And Carthage is a pretty diverse 833 01:01:07,360 --> 01:01:12,480 place at this point. Yeah, it's like a fucking crossroads. Like it's 834 01:01:12,519 --> 01:01:15,880 it's a merchant it's like a port city. Yeah, he goes He goes 835 01:01:15,960 --> 01:01:17,559 up to young Hannibal in his crib and grabs him and he's like, you 836 01:01:17,639 --> 01:01:22,760 will you will avenge me, avenge me, son, avenge coffee me. 837 01:01:23,559 --> 01:01:28,079 Yeah, and you want to hear about the Second Punic War. We did 838 01:01:28,119 --> 01:01:32,559 an episode on that on Hannibal. Yes with with Jake way back. Not 839 01:01:32,599 --> 01:01:37,119 that you're like you're ago when Oppenheimer came out. I wrote it when I 840 01:01:37,159 --> 01:01:42,599 was on Mushrooms after oh yeah, because we'd already done our Oppenheimer episode, 841 01:01:42,599 --> 01:01:45,960 so we went and saw Oppenheimer. Then you were on Mushrooms already and it 842 01:01:45,000 --> 01:01:47,079 was like one in the morning. You're like, I was like, I'll 843 01:01:47,079 --> 01:01:51,159 just stay up and write an episode on Hannibal. Sounds like a nightmare. 844 01:01:51,559 --> 01:01:53,679 That was great, not a good time. I had a great time here 845 01:01:53,719 --> 01:01:57,239 tonight. Thank you guys for having me here. I really appreciate it coming 846 01:01:57,320 --> 01:02:00,119 man, ha would you learn today if you learned anything I learned, Uh, 847 01:02:00,159 --> 01:02:02,639 don't step on the host toes or he will throw you out of a 848 01:02:02,679 --> 01:02:08,719 podcast. I heard that Rob will apply every tactic that he can try to 849 01:02:08,719 --> 01:02:12,960 get a leg up a total conversation. Uh, and how I am Rome 850 01:02:14,079 --> 01:02:15,559 at this point? I think you're sponsored by Total War. I don't know 851 01:02:15,559 --> 01:02:19,360 if they're giving you a check that you haven't told Dan about. But I 852 01:02:19,360 --> 01:02:22,800 haven't seen her dying, nor will you ever. You don't even know who 853 01:02:22,800 --> 01:02:27,800 makes Total War. That's the company, so well I want to they will 854 01:02:27,840 --> 01:02:31,519 never sponsor this show use promo code softcore. That's nothing. We got to 855 01:02:31,559 --> 01:02:36,320 get like one of those awful phone games to sponsor us, right, I 856 01:02:36,360 --> 01:02:39,880 know, right, Like what is uh like Classic Clans? Is that cad 857 01:02:39,960 --> 01:02:45,119 Upton's thing? No, but that was even fucking lamer. That was what 858 01:02:45,159 --> 01:02:47,840 was that dumb shit? That was like ebony or was a thing for the 859 01:02:49,039 --> 01:02:52,320 five minutes, it's like build your empire and she's just like in this like 860 01:02:52,400 --> 01:02:55,199 Greek outfit, but it's like a medieval game, I think or something, 861 01:02:55,239 --> 01:03:00,920 and they're like, your empire will last a thousand years. See that? 862 01:03:00,039 --> 01:03:05,239 That's that's Carthage spending a bunch of money trying to break into a market. 863 01:03:05,599 --> 01:03:09,480 UCF my my college also has a little bit of an identity crisis with we 864 01:03:09,519 --> 01:03:14,480 have the Medieval Night, but we also have a bunch of like Greek mythology 865 01:03:14,519 --> 01:03:19,800 and all these different things that then a car together and the spaceman Space Orange, 866 01:03:19,880 --> 01:03:23,079 Space Orange, Space Orange. Could you do a space night? Yeah? 867 01:03:23,199 --> 01:03:29,599 I think you need an astronaut riding some sort of alien steed on a 868 01:03:29,719 --> 01:03:34,719 well he rides Pegasus, all right, astronaut riding Pegasus with a lightsaber? 869 01:03:36,639 --> 01:03:39,559 What do you call that? Fucking thing, the pole, the jousting pole, 870 01:03:39,760 --> 01:03:47,719 joust just a lightsaber jazz whatever lance lance a lightsaber lance a jousted. 871 01:03:47,840 --> 01:03:52,039 You just said that with confidences. What it's called jousting. Well, yeah, 872 01:03:52,079 --> 01:03:57,039 it is jousting. Yeah, hopefully they were trying to make joust in 873 01:03:57,079 --> 01:03:59,960 the thing as like our like it was kind of it was kind of scat 874 01:04:00,840 --> 01:04:03,639 It's it's hard to do like in person goes like this, but if you 875 01:04:03,760 --> 01:04:08,840 do it wrong, you almost like are white nationalists. Yeah, but if 876 01:04:08,840 --> 01:04:11,760 you turn it this way, it's justin Yeah, it's not doesn't work. 877 01:04:11,840 --> 01:04:15,639 It doesn't work at all. It's just too close. It's a euphanism for 878 01:04:15,719 --> 01:04:19,400 sex. Yeah. And also yeah, there's nothing there's nothing good with that. 879 01:04:19,400 --> 01:04:27,559 That's yeah, that doesn't work. Who's today's Hitler? Carthage just for 880 01:04:27,639 --> 01:04:33,880 crucifying everyone that took one l They they killed themselves by killing themselves, killing 881 01:04:33,960 --> 01:04:38,440 too, so many children died. Yeah, I guess Carthage is the bad 882 01:04:38,440 --> 01:04:41,039 guy here. And that's not so there's some people that say, like, 883 01:04:41,079 --> 01:04:45,960 oh, that was like Roman propaganda or whatever. No, they found temples 884 01:04:45,440 --> 01:04:49,800 filled, especially you know what baby bones. It was the Mamartines. They're 885 01:04:49,920 --> 01:04:55,880 lost to history. But they started essentially what was the ancient World War. 886 01:04:56,280 --> 01:05:00,960 Yeah, yep, and they were just a bunch of dudes. It out 887 01:05:00,719 --> 01:05:04,320 just there, you know what. They were welcomed again with open arms to 888 01:05:04,519 --> 01:05:09,960 a very friendly city and they were just bored him, like this is ours 889 01:05:09,960 --> 01:05:15,000 now. Yeah, sucks about killing anyone here. You get you've like you've 890 01:05:15,000 --> 01:05:18,079 already gotten laid. You're pretty drunk, you're kind of over whatever, like 891 01:05:18,239 --> 01:05:21,400 game gambling game is being played at the time, and you're like, dude, 892 01:05:23,679 --> 01:05:26,559 the sweetest thing to do is kill people, Like, just let's just 893 01:05:26,599 --> 01:05:30,880 do it on bored You know, I've lost all my money in this dice 894 01:05:30,920 --> 01:05:34,920 came. It sucks, dude. That's the episode for today. Thanks for 895 01:05:35,000 --> 01:05:40,079 joining us, Nicholas, you're really good people find you. You can find 896 01:05:40,079 --> 01:05:43,320 me at just Georgio on Instagram. Uh me and Dan you should have a 897 01:05:43,320 --> 01:05:45,000 pod together that we might be restarting again. If it ever comes back to 898 01:05:45,039 --> 01:05:47,599 my house, we'll see you. Got to be in town. Also, 899 01:05:47,679 --> 01:05:51,400 I just it feels really good UFC podcast by the way, Yeah, fighting 900 01:05:51,719 --> 01:05:55,960 all things Mixed martial arts. Just to be back in the studio, you 901 01:05:56,000 --> 01:06:00,159 know, it feels like old times. It's nothing has changed, but there's 902 01:06:00,159 --> 01:06:02,719 a bunch more furniture in here now pretty much. Yeah, and uh yeah, 903 01:06:02,760 --> 01:06:06,000 all you old drinking bros fans softcore fans hit me up. I also 904 01:06:06,079 --> 01:06:10,320 don't want to change anything in the studio because only me and you know how 905 01:06:10,360 --> 01:06:13,239 everything work here, right, And if you touch one thing it could cause 906 01:06:13,280 --> 01:06:16,119 like a no, No, it's not that. It's job security. If 907 01:06:16,119 --> 01:06:18,920 I change anything and teach people how to do it, I could lose my 908 01:06:19,000 --> 01:06:23,719 job. Yeah, it's true. I mean you teaching me how to do 909 01:06:23,760 --> 01:06:26,880 anything? That's that was on me. That's kind of why you lost your 910 01:06:26,960 --> 01:06:30,360 job. I was regulus. I pushed too hard off the goal line when 911 01:06:30,400 --> 01:06:32,000 I should have, and I've altered that touch the goal line back over. 912 01:06:32,199 --> 01:06:34,960 Yeah, you did the same thing to me once. It's fine, damn 913 01:06:35,239 --> 01:06:39,400 Yeah. Why do we still like him? I don't know. Do you 914 01:06:39,480 --> 01:06:42,760 make more money than you have ever made in your entire life because of me? 915 01:06:43,760 --> 01:06:46,599 You still still goal line back to me? No? You you, 916 01:06:46,800 --> 01:06:50,800 I've said before you immigrant jobbed me. Yeah yeah, I was a cheaper 917 01:06:50,880 --> 01:06:56,400 labor. Yeah yeah, but I already worked there. I know. Still 918 01:06:57,039 --> 01:06:59,559 they saw, they saw another option, and you you took it instead of 919 01:06:59,639 --> 01:07:03,039 instead of standing on business like Hannibal does. How do we get the same 920 01:07:03,079 --> 01:07:09,840 app output with half the mouth and only three quotas of the money. I'm 921 01:07:09,880 --> 01:07:14,559 a quiet worker, hard man, puts his head down, gets the job 922 01:07:14,639 --> 01:07:19,400 done. But go subscribe to the software history Patreon because keeps these guys in 923 01:07:19,440 --> 01:07:23,960 the furs and the boots. Yeah, we could also just do this for 924 01:07:24,639 --> 01:07:28,239 our whole job if we get to the point where And wouldn't all of you 925 01:07:28,280 --> 01:07:30,920 fans love that because you'll get more content if you don't even want to know 926 01:07:31,039 --> 01:07:35,559 what us off the chain is like, well, this is our only content 927 01:07:35,599 --> 01:07:39,960 we have to focus on. You get stuff from Rob at home. Wouldn't 928 01:07:39,960 --> 01:07:44,079 you want to see dad life? Yeah? Rob came in a little late. 929 01:07:44,840 --> 01:07:47,679 Baby had an oopsie. Hey, he had a little oopsie, dais. 930 01:07:47,679 --> 01:07:53,280 He fell face first onto our fireplace, split his head open. Had 931 01:07:53,320 --> 01:07:57,320 to take him into the er to get a to get some stitches. I 932 01:07:57,320 --> 01:08:00,800 actually still have toddler blood on me. Giorgio was trying to drink it before 933 01:08:00,840 --> 01:08:02,159 I got in for the Adrina crone. Yeah, let me get that lick 934 01:08:02,199 --> 01:08:04,440 it off. I was actually trying to make a sacrifice. Two ball, 935 01:08:04,679 --> 01:08:08,000 two ball, Oh, I bet your Orange are going to go great this 936 01:08:08,079 --> 01:08:11,880 year. Yeah, I just want the patreon to grow, and that was 937 01:08:11,880 --> 01:08:15,320 what the ball sacrifice was for. Don't make me finish the job. Subscribe 938 01:08:15,320 --> 01:08:16,960 to our patreon at patreon dot com. So last sophomore history, yep, 939 01:08:17,680 --> 01:08:20,159 all right, guess and I'm glad it was Finn. You know, he 940 01:08:20,199 --> 01:08:25,119 has to go through some adversity. I mean they've both been to the hospital 941 01:08:25,119 --> 01:08:27,000 at this point. I did that when I was a kid, when I 942 01:08:27,039 --> 01:08:29,720 was too I split my lip open and kind of hunt them down. Oh 943 01:08:29,760 --> 01:08:31,760 really, yeah, do this thing was deep. I fell through a window. 944 01:08:31,920 --> 01:08:34,239 My wife like ran over and she was like, he's bleeding. Get 945 01:08:34,239 --> 01:08:38,800 a thing, like, get a talent. I can see his skull and 946 01:08:39,239 --> 01:08:43,119 literally I was like, uh like within a split second thing and I was 947 01:08:43,159 --> 01:08:45,359 like, no, we need to go to the hospital right now. Like 948 01:08:45,520 --> 01:08:48,640 that needs stitches full stop. That Now that Courtney is a stay at home 949 01:08:48,640 --> 01:08:53,279 mom, she needs to learn how to just kind of put in stitches. 950 01:08:53,359 --> 01:08:55,800 I think I did see his skull, to be honest, I'm not even 951 01:08:55,840 --> 01:08:58,760 joking, because I had to sit there at least it's so it's still soft. 952 01:08:58,840 --> 01:09:00,039 Yeah. Well no, the no, that would be bad because the 953 01:09:00,079 --> 01:09:02,760 front part's the first part that gets hard on the baby because that's where they 954 01:09:02,800 --> 01:09:06,119 eat it the most. And uh like they were telling me about that, 955 01:09:06,119 --> 01:09:09,800 but I had to. So the way you give a one year old stitches, 956 01:09:09,840 --> 01:09:11,479 by the way, you got to get them one of those helmets a 957 01:09:11,560 --> 01:09:17,439 stew pickles makes and rugrats and then play football in with the milk. Uh 958 01:09:18,359 --> 01:09:20,439 Rory had one of those, but that was because his skull was weird. 959 01:09:20,680 --> 01:09:25,680 How you have a baby stitches is you wrap them up in a sheet so 960 01:09:25,760 --> 01:09:29,279 they can't move, and then you lay down on them while a nurse holds 961 01:09:29,319 --> 01:09:31,960 their fucking head because they're just like no, no, no, So god, 962 01:09:31,960 --> 01:09:35,680 what I'd like watch a needle go into his not even his epidermis, 963 01:09:35,720 --> 01:09:39,239 like just dermis. I mean you could see well I can see like the 964 01:09:39,279 --> 01:09:43,680 fat in his like for it. It was. It's not great. It's 965 01:09:43,720 --> 01:09:45,319 not what you want to see anyway. Yeah, I had to just like 966 01:09:45,479 --> 01:09:49,359 lean on my child as he's staring at me, like why are you're doing 967 01:09:49,439 --> 01:09:55,760 this to me? They're like it's okay, twinkle twinkle little. He's like, 968 01:09:55,800 --> 01:10:00,520 no, that's a lie. No stars are Twinkler and take him to 969 01:10:00,680 --> 01:10:04,399 uh dermatologists afterwards, he'll be fine. He's one years old. That scar 970 01:10:04,479 --> 01:10:06,680 is gonna be gone. I mean, I've had the ditches on my face 971 01:10:06,720 --> 01:10:10,479 and scars are gone. And that happened to like in college, and shit, 972 01:10:12,079 --> 01:10:15,439 your whole face is like one big scar. What damn fuck does that 973 01:10:15,520 --> 01:10:20,439 mean? It's not nice, but it's mean. I don't understand it, 974 01:10:20,560 --> 01:10:24,600 but it was mean. And with that you just got soft served