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Patreon is the best way to support us, so go to patreon dot
com slash softcore History. Today. On today's episode, we talk about the
conflict that created the Roman Empire, the conflict that proved once and for all
that Rome would not take no for an answer, going from a little,
tiny, promising startup to a mammoth beast of a corporation. And my favorite
part is, no matter how many times Fate to gods whatever said you should
stop doing this, Rome persisted and pushed on through this republic was all gas,
no breaks. Today we cover the First Punic War. Welcome to Softcore
History. Welcome back to soft core History. I'm your host who Week,
Damna Jester, and I'm joined as always by Rob Fox and special guest,
our good pal Nick. I'm back. I'm back. Gave me the U
the old name because we're going way back in time on this one. Nicholas,
That Nicholas Gregorious Maximus. Now are you do you spell it all Greek?
Like? Is it just a k no n I k no, let's
h it's my middle name. Okay, yeah, you got you got anglicized
with it. I did, I did? You gotta go, you gotta
go, guy Fieri and de anglicize your name. All my Greek relatives liked
white women, and so I think the name just kind of trickled. Well,
who doesn't. Yeah, that's really what minorities don't realize. And it's
what I've done myself, even as a white man, is you need to
marry a white woman. That's how you move up in society. You marry
a white woman. The white are the white the higher in society. Yeah.
Now, for a long time that wasn't allowed. And that's exactly why,
because they knew that they were going to lose their white women to them,
to them boys, and they didn't want to lose them because they know
that's the that's the ladder, that's how that's how you climb the ladder.
We talked about this, The great replacement theory is me being attracted to giant
booty latinas I'm following. See, but think about that. That's how they
that's how they get you, right. They send in their big booty Latinas
and then you're like ay yayai, and you chase after it like a slobbering
fucking Warner Brothers. And then my kids are Hispanish. Yeah. But then
the men take the white ladies, especially the unmarriable ones, and you know,
hopefully Dad's got some money, and boom, all of a sudden,
the whole family is legitimized. You marry up, You marry up. That
is a tale of the oldest time. It's across cultures. It's exactly how
our topic today got starred. It is a bunch of guys in this country
that were all duded up, went and took a bunch of women from some
neighboring towns and expanded their empire. Let's we'll get to that. Let's go.
I told Georgia the topic beforehand. All right, with this, we
had to bring in a fellow Mediterranean. Yes, we're talking about the first
Punic Wars. You heard that off the top though with the intro we've talked
about Hannibal in the past, but we're doing the prequel. That's right.
Is this inspired by the podcast I sent you No, this is inspired by
Georgio, by Georgia particular, okay, because which we try to canter our
topic to the well. Also House of the Dragon, so that is a
prequel to Game of Thrones. There's less similarities in the Carthaginians and the Valerians.
Also, perhaps a dragon appears in the story. Yes, there has
been official quotes from a Roman that there was a dragon. Oh boy,
well that today has a theme then, because I got a lot of beasts
in my episode. Check that out on Patreon, Patreon dot com. Slash
softcore history. Yes, let's into the first Punic Wars. What made Rome?
Carthage was founded in eight fourteen BC as the Phoenician Trade Colony or in
Latin speaking Rome, the Punic trade colony. Yes, and that is where
the name comes from the Phoenicians. What area is that nowdn Lebanon Lebanon,
and it's initially or later become the Ottoman Empire or like the heart of Ottoman
Empire. Yeah, I mean all those cities that are up there, Lebanon,
sit On, Tire, there, t sartists, all those cities are
like massive trade hubs. It's all like imagine just like every single one of
them. Imagine like the East coast of the United States, right, you
have a huge port in Baltimore, a huge port in New York, huge
port in Yeah, we have a port yeah Philly, huge port in philadelph
Baltimore has a port. I know Baltimore does. They just said that boat
just hit it. Everybody like all just just a Boston, like a Boston
habba, like all these great port cities that are like commercial empires. Basically,
what I'm saying is they all sail west from basically what's now the Middle
East into the Mediterranean and it's northern Africa. Yeah. They were dope sailors
too, They were the best sailors. They were essentially just merchants and Carthage
is what came of the Phoenicians, and that was the empire. They set
up shop in northern Africa, and that was then it became its own thing.
Yeah. It was a semi democratic republic that built their superpower entirely off
trade in ivory, gold, slaves and offering up child sacrifices to Baal,
the god of plant fertility, a god that came over from Phoenicia from the
East. Yes, and in fact that is what Hannibal's name is based on.
This is all of us know way too much about this because you probably
just studied it or knew it already because you liked it, but studied it
more because you knew it was happening. I weirdly, incidentally, on accident,
listened to a different history podcast while I was mowing the lawn the last
two weeks, and it was about the punic hoors are you trying to kneecap
me in this episode? I'm trying to I'm trying to offer yourself up trying
to kneecap his host. No, I'm gonna what I'm gonna do is I'm
gonna protect you by kneecapping him and then the process it might take you out
as well, I guess, but I'm gonna I'm gonna kill his bit.
I'm catching astray. Yeah, yeah, yeah yeah. If you don't know,
the last time Georgia was on his entire bit was to just submarine fucking
torpedo Jake's episode by knowing more about Jake's topics than Jake. It was four
years ago. First of all, I want to say, as a Mediterranean
I'm just in love with the history and secondly, I think the first,
second, and your third Punic Wars represent uh, you know, the first
being naval, the second being land, and then the third being in the
air the greatest representation of the US military forces. Yes, what was the
third peedifor in the air? Okay, dragons, that is not true.
But to answer your early question, the Punic Wars, the first Pini Corps
was like two sixty Okay, that's two forty twenty four year span, which
is crazy to think about because that's like two hundred that's already So America's what
like two hundred fifty years old about roughly. Uh, in fact, in
two years to be two hundred fifty years old. Uh, the Roman Republic
is already basically two hundred and fifty years old. Well, it's already has
been around as long as the United States. They're just we're turning from a
monarchy too republic around this time. How much before this did that happen.
They're also kind of bucking right now. They're taking over the entire Italian peninsula.
Just fucked up the Etruscans. They haven't really explored outside of that though.
No, they've pretty much chopped the bottom all of Italy is now Rome.
M h clean your own house. This is upstart Yeah, clean your
own house, startup culture. We get ping pong tables, launch kidded every
Friday. We're family here. We don't really pay you much, but you
know, we'll give you some stock options for Rome. But what body of
water is right below that? Below the Mediterranean? Yeah, we're gonna get
to it. We're getting to Sicily. Please stop stepping all over my ship.
All right, you just go. I'm gonna I'm gonna mute you.
You're gone. I'll talk the first person we ever toss off the pot.
I'm the storyteller. You're supposed to add, We're supposed to jump in.
All right. So the two are pretty amicable. For hundreds of years,
they had good trade relations, formed alliances, and battled similar enemies. The
spark of the conflict between these two powers was a little Italian mercenary group known
as Go Ahead Giorgio. Ah, I love that. This is what ohmortins
have? Memortines, memortines, memortines, member tans. How would you describe
them? They were recently unemployed by the city of Syracuse and moseying around looking
for some excitement and they're now dull lives. I guess if you want to
go with the Game of Thrones comparisons the Golden Company, Golden Company or mixed
with a little of Chippendale, I think, or like down Under, Like
I see them you siled up? Just well, everyone's oiled up professional wrestler
in the eighties exactly, but now like but now everyone knows wrestling's fake,
so they have nothing to do. Yeah, Syracuse, by the way,
your people, that's the Greek colony on Sicily. Yes, yeah, they
find their way to the eastern tip of Sicily in the town a Masana in
two eighty eight BC, where peaceful inhabitants welcome the hired swords with open arms.
And boy was that a bad idea. It's it's like it's like welcoming
a gang into your like subdivision. You're like gated community, you know what
I mean? Like, Oh, they seem cool. I like their music.
It's loud and has drum beats. Let's let them in there. They
have weapons? Are you? Are you making a case for j education through
the fuse pernicure? I am. I am pro gentrification. Yes, sweep
the streets with money, brooms of money, sweep the rats into the storm
off the pot. Do you want gentrification? I I I'm already gentrified,
so it's fine. So what what they do in the city. They were
bored so, realizing they would have virtually zero resistance, the Mammertines just decided
to just take the town for themselves. Murdered and kicked out all the male
population and divided up the property and women as they saw fit, and turned
the place into a rating base for the next twenty years. Messina is northern
Sicily, I think right, it's right on the tip Sicily and Italy kind
of where they Yeah, I'm just what is the water the there's a street
right there. Yeah, I don't know what the Straits called. Is that
the Adriatic seekers at the one but Adriatics between Italy and Croatia, right,
I think that's Adriatic. Yeah. Anyway, I'm just trying to remember my
Rome total Warmap campaign map. It goes Messina, Syracuse and then a little
bellum's on the far side. That's the Carthacinian city's little bellum. The Roman
city is Messina, and the Greek city Syracuse. Well over these next twenty
years, the Mamartines then began to plunder their former employer and territory of Syracuse,
but, unlike the friendly city of Masana, Syracuse fought back. What
a bunch of dicks, I know, right, How dare you let us
have your women and your property. Hey, we we're just gonna either kill
you or kick you out, send you to the countryside, or rape sell
slaves, maybe make you a slave, do stuff to your wife. You'll
watch. We'll sell your kids too. I thought they were gonna raise the
kids. They're gonna raise money off the kids. Fair. We've said this
before on the show, But when you're a hired gun or a hired sword,
you're gonna raise a child. I don't think so. I feel like
you all are like brothers from another mother in that sense, we like Earth.
I don't think a hired sword really has a five year or ten year
plan. I think they kind of live in the moment. Yeah. True,
and the kid probably wants some retribution. Probably best get rid of him.
Unless you're Andrew Jackson and you just find an Indian boy amongst all the
people you slaughtered, and you're like, oh, you're cute, You're mine
now, and you just raise him like your son, and then when he
asks, you're just like, yeah, I don't know. Yeah, I
killed him. Saved you from a life of savagery because I'm fucking Andrew Jackson.
Did he make him March? No, he adopted. There was some
like Indian like Native American kid he like adopted. But after a certain amount
of time was Andrew Jackson like right off to Oklahoma? You go? Now?
He kept him around the whole time he was. He was good as
far as I know, good to him. I mean so after good to
him after he murdered his family. He's good to one native after he murdered
his family. It was probably just so he could point like, look I
haven't I got one. Yeah, check out check out my black friend,
check out my native son. How'd you get him? How do you become
your son? Oh? He was an orphan? Oh? Who did?
Did you make him an orphan? Or did someone? I'm taking care of
them right, Yeah? You want you yeah, you want question you want
to ask questions? Do you wanna you know? But the Mambartines, like
I think that twenty years chilling there kind of made them soft. No,
they were still plundering, they were, but like Syracuse was kind of giving
it to them. They're not hitting, they're not hitting hard targets. Hider
of the Second of Syracuse gathered up an army of Greek citizens, captured Mamartine
leaders, and counter attacked the city Masana. And like you said, maybe
they did get soft and they reached out to Carthage for help. That's kind
of why I think, Like, look, w wrong, Vikings are cool,
blah blah blah. They definitely conquered stuff, they took Paris whatever,
But like a lot of this, like dude, Vikings are so bad as
to it, like the craziest warriors. They would roll into like a village
outnumbering them, like the Element of Surprise had the ELM's Prize outnumbered them,
if not in like straight up ten to one numbers or five to what numbers,
like because maybe the population was roughly the same of the but and stuff
like that. I mean, they were just hitting, hitting the ball off
the team most of the time. It took Paris, I know they did.
They didn't do nothing. And they were the Byzantine Emperor's like favorite,
uh, what is it the Varangian Guard or something like that, Like they
was a fair. But I'm just saying a lot of most of what they
did though, they were really just killing civilians, and people were like,
well, so hard, dude, they're hard. They also had their women
fight, so progressive. Hell yeah, you and your wife just slaughtering innocence,
doing it in a puddle of blood, puddle of mud. Well,
the blood made the mud. So the Mamartines reached out to Carthage. Carthage
hopped on the opportunity, as they have long coveted the entire island of Sicily
for themselves, fighting with Syracuse for centuries. They sent a force to then
form a garrison in Masana. Carthage essentially took over the base of operations,
much to the dismay of many Mamartine soldiers. There's a bit of a split
between the Mamartine mercenaries and half reach out to Rome is the Mamartines. So
if I like remember this correctly, you said the Marmarantines were like Italian mercenaries.
They're Italian, Okay. So the first treaty between Rome and Carthage was
essentially like, all right, we're Phoenicians, you're Latins. And then there's
also the Greeks or whatever. But they were like you, we're cool with
you, and we'll do business with you, but you keep your Latin shit
to your Latin parts of the world, and we'll keep our Phoenician shit to
our Phoenician parts of the world. And so I assume the Latins saw them
taking over what they thought was a Latin part of the world and we're like,
hey, hey, hey, we don't need ay, it's ain't you
block. Yeah. When they saw the Carthage was setting up shop and they
didn't really want to listen to them. They're like, Rome, we're Italians.
You're Italians. That Rome was like we can wait wait what we can
go to war? Oh finally, well not yet. No, we're not
there yet. We can do some fighting. Sorry, do some fighting.
Excuse me no, Because so the Romans come down and they're confused. They're
like, why is Carthage here. Carthage is like why why are the Romans
coming down? Like we don't have any issues, we don't have any beef.
And as I said earlier, this was not prime Roman empire that we
all know and love just yet. Yeah, this is like Rome at this
point, man, I'm trying to go a good example. Okay, it's
a good parallel to the United States. Rome at this point is like pretty
America in the eighteen thirties to the Mexican War. Basically right, not nothing,
absolutely not nothing. So can certainly put up a fight. Not you
know, they're they're they're they're someone to be reckoned with to an extent,
like if they say something, you have to acknowledge it. But like,
yeah, would be a dog, would be a dog in any fight,
including the No one thought the US was gonna win the Mexican War. People
thought that is our punic war. As far as I'm confid, I think
I've said that on the show before. Nobody thought the US was gonna win
the Mexican War. People thought Mexico was bigger and gonna have the upper hand.
We obviously fucking housed him. At this time, Rome was not about
allowing too much power at a time. They had two consules served one year
at a time before being switched out. So what was a measure put in
place to keep Roman leaders in check? Also created this pedal to the metal
yolo mentality to conquer and gain glory and fame as much as they could under
their command. For the year. You don't get a naked statue of yourself
at home. You go to war and you conquer, and that's how you're
remembered forever you And also I could be wrong about this, but I think
like that also would make people want you to be counsel again. I don't
know if there was a rule about serving twice in a row, but I'm
pretty sure you could be council more than once. I think it was a
bad look to be counsel more than once. Yeah, okay, I don't
maybe you wait a term, Yeah you don't. I don't think. I
don't go back to back. I'm pretty sure you could be. And so
it's like, dude, let's get Flavius again. Flavius was dope, you
weren't the old ship Flavor's dude. Look again. There also is a bunch
of people all name the same thing. Yeah, you know, fucking dude.
Actually, one thing I learned that was really funny and the Carthag ship
I was listening to a couple of weeks ago, is that, uh boy,
everyone is named fucking Hannibal. Everyone is named Hannibal. There are a
lot of fucking handles. A couple of Hannibals. It's because Hannibal. It's
a named It's like, uh a, it's named for ball, the god.
Yeah, the god hand plant fertility. Yeah, it's Hannah means so
many children got sacrificed too, So many children, Like hey, Dad,
how about you just like water that plant instead? And he's like, na,
son, just come here, hold on, yeah, throw him in
the fire. Romans go into Massan and Carthage forces were confused and ultimately left
without much conflict as they were being escorted out of the city walls by the
Mammartines and Romans. General Hanno and his forces get back to Carthage, regroup
and strategize how to respond to the surprise power struggle for Masana. Unfortunately,
though, our boy Hanno never got a chance at redemption. In typical Carthage
fashion, he was crucified for his cowardice and misjudgment. Yeah, they don't
like a loser, no, no, And I think that kind of like
also, like these two different ideologies are very important to go through all of
the punic wars. Is a lot of the Carthaginians are very conservative because they
don't want to come back as a failure and get crucified. Yeah, they
don't want to die. So you have one side that's like we only get
punished for failing, and the other sides like only upside. Yeah, we
will get as much famin glory for what we do, and if we fail,
it's not a really a big deal. So Romans kind of playing with
house. Yes, Carthaginians are playing with their mortgage. Yeah, pretty much.
And I'm already down half a stack. Yeah yeah, li metaphor kind
of. It only makes sense because they were so rich they were Carthage.
Oh yeah, so well half their forces too, aren't even their citizens,
Yeah, just mercenary groups, which does never work well. That comes into
play later with Romans encroaching on Syracuse territory. They made a pact with their
traditional enemies in Carthage to put the Romans back in their place. They surrounded
the city of Masana thinking they could get the occupied forces to pick up and
leave, only to get their ass whipped by the Roman legions in the Battle
of Massuna. Damn. And this is pre Like you were saying, like,
this isn't Rome Rome yet, this is early Rome. So this is
pre like the Marian reforms, So they're not even considered, they're not even
legionaries legions yet, they're they're what are they called, like Hatatsai princips.
I'm not doing that. I'm just gonna go with legion that's fine, but
they are not. The Marian reforms kind of changed just the way this is
pre the Roman army going like full sicko mode. Right, This is like
the American army before World War Two, basically like world They're still pretty dope.
They are the US army before before World War Two, but post World
War Two, it just goes to a whole nother fucking level, like insane.
Like if you look at the US military engagements from the end of World
War Two on, like actual engagements like you know, certainly we didn't,
Vietnam didn't, and the way we wanted it to Iraq and Iraq point two
point zero in Afghanistan and the way we want to whatever. But in terms
of like actual engagements, we never lose fights ever, it's only political losses.
And that is eventually that kind of becomes like a Roman thing too for
a while. But yeah, yeah, I'm just saying like they're not in
even full sick o mode yet. Syracusan Sicilian forces immediately jump sides after this
defeat. No one wants to be on the losing side. No, And
also, aren't the Romans really more culturally actually, I guess that's debatable because
the Greeks got their alphabet from the Phoenicians, so, but then the Romans
are, I don't know. The Romans haven't conquered Greece yet, so they
haven't really stolen a lot of their traditions yet. The Greeks adopted a lot
more from the East and then took that to Sicily, where the Romans are.
Romans adopted a lot more from the Gauls and the Celts. Correct early
on, I think it was more yeah, and then but then once they
were in quite a bit more contact with the Greeks sunting like that, they
became more Greek. And then Rome expands everywhere and takes from everyone. Carthage
builds up forces at Agrigentum, Rogantum lay siege. There's a bit of a
starve off. They were certainly heard in the Carthage forces, but Roam themselves
was lacking resources as it was truly the first time not fighting on the Italian
peninsula and crossing water, so getting food and all the supplies they need across
water was a bit of a problem, and it was eight I don't know
what. We needed someone to look up the actual amount of mileage it is,
but it's not very far, which is also at testament to the Roman's
navy at this time being absolutely nothing. They're basically they have no barges.
Yeah, they have no names. They're like pushing stuff and like hoping it
floats. Yeah. But yeah, so they're getting starved off, and then
something else happens, right, Carthage sends reinforcements. The siege, the Roman
siege, Turpal siege powers, it's a siege outside of a siege, inside
of a siege. It's in siege seption, in Schiegem, in Siegem.
They're all losing their minds because they're essentially starve in and they're just like,
fuck it, let's get on the battlefield, let's do this, let's handle
this, let's handle business. Rum winds. And by wins, I mean
they killed seven thousand Carthaginians goddamn, and lost thirty thousand men, but they
won. It's a dub. I'm happy for them. They won with numbers
that's like through bodies when you and your homies go out and you kind of
have to, you know, take home the torta. It's still a dub.
But is it? What's the torta? Large Mexican lady. Yeah,
it's a win. It's a win. You're helping your boy out, That's
what I'm saying. So he gets the dub, do you not? That's
what I'm saying. It's exactly like this. You lost thirty thousand men.
Rome wanted to build off the momentum for this win and take the entire island
of Sicily, but that would require resources that they lacked in a navy they
didn't have going against one of the best naval empires at that time, in
Carthage, mind you. As luck would have it, the Carthaginian Quinquerian grounded
on Italian soil. Roman Legion captured it, copied the design with the giant
bronze brands in the front of the ships, and went to work on a
fleet from scratch. They about one hundred and twenty warships in two months.
It's it's like a thirty minute boat ride today across the Strait. Yeah,
and Italy couldn't or Rome couldn't do that for the longest time until right now,
until they have copy technology. They're the China of China. We did
an episode on that not that long ago about how what China views. One
of the main ways that empires rise is by stealing tech from other empires,
and Rome did that consistently. Rome only stole Yes, I shields their gods.
Good artist borrow great artists steel. Yeah, I'm a great artist.
That was the greatest artist. So am I Dan Console Scipio Scipio Scipio,
the younger Skipio goes out with his new boat to Lipara, believing he could
convince them to join the Roman cause they entered the harbor and aur surrounded by
a Carthaginian fleet. You may be able to copy someone's work, but when
you have to put into practice of that knowledge that that was never truly yours,
it quickly exposes you didn't know how to fight on water. Nope,
not yet, big w for the Carthaginian not yet. Carthaginian Empire was built
by seafaring people. It was in their blood. They were faster, fiercer,
class and outmaneuvered the Romans with ease. Rarely adopted. The Roman fleet
got pulverized and suffered a humilion in defeat. Cornelia Scipio or Scipio was given
the nickname a Sina, which translates to donkey or ass. Yeah. I
like donkey, but I actually think it's more insulting now to be called a
donkey. Being called a donkey's yeah, way worse. Let's let's keep track
of how many naval fleets Romans life. That is one so far, so
far, not not the whole fleet though, it's just a couple of both.
It don't matter, don't matter. Respawn. Yeah, so the Romans
had a knack for replicating their enemies weapons and designs, but they also would
like to improve on it. This is where this giant swivel and spiked boarding
device called the CORVS is created by the Romans. I just love that they're
like, they're essentially like Doude. You know what, Like, fighting on
water is hard, but we're pretty thick at fighting on land. What if
we make land fighting on water? Yeah? What if we just make a
giant hammer? Yeah? What if we just land fight them on the water.
You couldn't make land on the water, you idiot. Wait, hold
on, hold on, we got no idea. Check out this plank I
made with a knife in It just sticks into the oak and they're like,
oh fuck, sick, bro. It's basically a like crane. It just
swivels around and then dropping down and then you land fight on the water,
and you also do some damage to their boat with a little spike. Not
very aerodynamic though. Let's let's point that out as well, which is why
Carthage was laughing at them when they saw it. Initially. Yeah, what
the fuck is that thing? That's stupid? Yeah, the idiots giant Roman.
So how was Carthage fighting on the water? Just like so that bronze,
uh, the fact that he was talking about just shoots right through.
That's my favorite through boats. That's my favorite part about the Confederate. So
the Confederates made the first ironclad, right, and then Union came back with
their little the monitored the little cheese boxing. But the Confederate one, they're
like, all right, there's pull these cannons on it, and then you
know what, fuck it, let's put a ram under it. So they
just put like a ram underwater. Like several of the boats that the the
CSS Merrimac sank were from ramming. Is it gonna keep talk about war that
he knows about. I know about this, I'll fucking start dropping shit.
When the Carthaginian fleet went to Ram, the Romans slammed down the Corvus and
what board their enemy ships, turn in traditional sea battle into something more familiar
in hand to hand combat. Into sixty BC, the Romans got their first
naval win at the Battle of Male. What do were they were the Carthagenians
even prepared for that? Was it just like boarding a cruise ship at that
point? Like you have weapons and they don't really, Like I'm saying,
like on the boats, were they even fucking prepared? Yeah, they had
weapons, but like enough you know what I mean? Like, were they
prepared for a boarding party? No, that's what That's what I'm saying.
So it was a game changer. Yeah, Yes, that's that's what I'm
saying. It's like I was just saying, is it like attacking a cruise
ship? Like, yeah, I'm sure there's a couple of security guards.
Yes, a cruise ship that tries to just run through fishing boats. But
but the thing is, though their only weapon is the ram, maybe some
archers, it's more like attacking like a cargo carrier where they put the water
jets out for the Yeah, so it's like there's a little bit of defense,
but not enough. Once you're on. Once you're on, you're good
to go. You're on. I am the captain, know. Yeah.
Carthage was stunned. The general in charge of the defeat, Hannibal Gisco,
was of course crucified. Poor Gisco. Why even maybe your family would get
fucked up if you didn't. I would just be like, I'll be jumping
in the water now and swim in the other direction. Boys. The battle
for Sicily turned into a slog siege is laid on town after town. Some
would fall, Carthage would counterattack. Romans would answer, it's becoming a bit
of a stalemate on the island, with territory getting swapped back and forth.
In two fifty six PC console Marcus Attilius Regulus decided to forego more attacks on
Sicily and made plans to just go for the head of the snake itself.
Yep, just bazook Carthage right to Carthage, Baby, let's go run it
to the end zone. The ramped up boat production and Carthage answered, hearing
of these plans, It all came to a head at the Battle of Cape
Economis, where six hundred and eighty warships and three hundred thousand men took part
in one of the largest naval conflicts in human history. So I love the
setup for this all right, So Carthage does like a blockade, so it's
just a straight line of all the carthage Inian ships, I think, more
ships than they've ever had to begin with, right, and then Rome is
coming down and they do like a mighty ducks flying V formation because like we're
gonna punch it the wedge yea, yeah, like we're gonna we're gonna wedge
it through like we're the bears. Give it to the fridge there behind the
net, they're like the view exactly exactly. So they're they're vet up because
Roman is coming to see Rome's coming to siege Carthage. So they're also pulling
a bunch of ships behind them with like farm animals and stuff to build,
so like they're they're adi so they gotta stay tight and Carthage is spread out.
So but the dummy tactics you gonna talk about keep going. So as
you know, Rome tries to pierce through this thin line. Carthage just kind
of surrounds them and golfs them. And what is like on a on land
known as like a pincer, Yeah, a pincer formation, but on sea,
I think Hannah or yeah, Hannibal to younger takes a lot of this
and applies it to his land battles later in the Second Punic War, but
in that case he literally has that pincer movement was eventually named after the most
famous battle it was used in, called a Kane, But here it's a
little different. Yeah, Carthaginians generals lord in the Romans, and the Romans
ultimately came out on top, taking down ninety four Carthaginian ships and forty thousand
soldiers while only suffering twenty four ships and ten thousand casualties of their own.
But I mean, I think as far as the game plan went, Carthage
like pulled what they wanted to do. I think it was a scaling issue.
It was kind of like the team MMA in Russia exactly knock out you
know, two or three guys. It's ten on ten, then it becomes
ten on seven, and then it just gets easier. I mean, but
then you just need to go into straight up like phalanx battle tactics, Like
you can't just be like, you know, because I've seen those videos before
where they're like everyone's just fighting and then yeah, a guy gets knocked out
and then now there's somebody's two on one. You got to basically from the
beginning go into a formation. I'm sure the first because by the way,
the first battles that ever happened in modern human history. But by that I
mean, like Paleolithic is not really easy to maneuver these boats, which was
the whole point of the boat is there were so many boats. I think
the whole thing this is all on c they're all jammed together. They spread
out to three different like skirmishes, but it's still hard to move, especially
when shits sink in things are on fire. They should have just been like
scramble, like everyone just goes on their own yea. But then you go
back to Carthage. You can get crucified. True, you can't go back
to Carthage. You can gified. Just can't go back home. If you
lose, you just gotta be like I'm out. You just need to go
to area which you don't even know exists at that one degree. After this
victory a smooth sound to Africa, the Phoenix decided to put all their resources
to defending Carthage and let Rome have free rain to plunder Aspis in the countryside.
Regulus and his forces begin their march to Carthage, where they allegedly encounter
what ancient Roman scholar Livy described as a dragon. Okay, I guess they
conquered the dragon. So they're in northern Africa just like pillaging these small towns.
Like I'm assuming completely different ethnicities of people, to be honest, you
think they're just like merked a giraffe probably or a big lizard. Probably.
When did the Sahara become this to him? Remember it was probably already the
Sahara at this point, but there was a while where the Sahara was like
green. Yeah, it's some perfect, really lush. Could these be like
large snake creek good bit. Yeah yeah, but I like to think,
oh we took down a dragon, it's just a fucking giraffe. Honestly,
this was just a like pillaging fuck fest. It was a twenty five BC.
It stopped being kind of lush two thousand years yeah, So it was
when they were building the Pyramids. Basically, the Carthaginians that weren't killed or
captured and sold into slavery in the countryside all bolted for the city of Carthage
and it became overran with traumatized citizens of the state, and resources and food
were growing pretty quick. Regulus, realizing his year as console was almost up
and he was so close to victory, he asked for the unconditional surrender of
Carthage so he would get all the glory and not get foltured by his successor.
So this is like a it's like a face. Let's use a fantasy
football analogy here. It's the running back getting down to the one yard line
and they bring in the third down running back. Yes, they bring down
the goalie back and you don't get no, no, no, yeah,
give come on, but I just ran at sixty yards over the course of
like eight downs. Come on, and they're like, now we got to
bring in the biggest motherfucker you've ever seen. So he's like a one yard
or you know what. Another good acknowledge for that is just Tim Tebow snaking
touchdowns from his own running backs. Yeah, yeah, that's how you went
a Heisman, though you still here a goal line back who throws the ball.
Yeah, basically taking great offense to his harsh demands. It reinvigorates Carthage.
They hire a mercenary Spartan and this is your boy Xanthis I believe xanthepis
Xanthias yess xanthepis to lead. They're already incredibly diverse. Let's talk about Anthus
for a minute, and unorganized land forces. He's a Spartan Spartan. So
they were like, oh crap, we're We're like, hold up. The
siege is going horrible. All the resources are running out, and he's like,
let's bring in the Greek. This is this is boondock Saints, like,
let's let's they're calling the fixer. Yeah, exactly, the guy the
prisoner who's in a bird cage, he's so dangerous exactly. Yeah. So
he comes in and it's like, we have nowhere else to go. Yeah,
let's talk about some of the So there's some early land battles between them
before they bring They bring in Xantheus, and Carthage is just getting their butts
kicked because apparently what they would do is not lead with the war elephants.
No, so they're up on this hill, which seems like a mistake.
It depends, Man, I look in my experience fighting with war and against
war elephants uh in Rome Total War uh and also in Age of Empires and
stuff like that. You guys are both insufferable this episode. No, But
like in Rome Total War, if you just like send the elephants at the
enemy, like first you'll get a unit, you'll knock unit or two out
maybe, but then they're just they are gonna die, like they're gonna get
surrounded. They're gonna fucking die. You need to use them as you want
to use them fairly quickly in the battle. But like you want an intimidation
factor. You want they're in the back, they're not really gonna do much
and if they do get spooked, they're gonna run and kill your army.
You want the enemy. It's it's honestly, it's kind of like any other
cavalry to an extent, like you want the enemy engaged and then you use
them to you use that, you use that unit, those units to break
them. Well, you understood they had the Numidian Cavalry, which was some
of Africa's finest horse riders, which is basically the doth racky of Africa at
this point in time. Horse riders and spear throwers, and a lot of
the base camps were on these hilly uneven terrains so they could look down upon
the roaming encampments. But their cavalry and elephants were basically rendered useless what coming
down the hills exactly because they always fought like uneven Land. They didn't have
really good generals at this point except for a few who carthage. Okay,
crucifying, they keep crucifying. Imagine like all they're good leaders. Grant loses
one battle in the Civil War and they're like, well, buddy, it
was a nice run. So dudes are getting promotion on the fly. And
yeah, it's just like Hodgepodge Meltain Pod army. Yeah, nobody speaks the
same language. You're constantly running into issues with your own men. That's actually
a very underrated problem in a lot of armies over history in that like you
use it. It's like like the Persians had this problem, lobulous problem where
like you build this humongous army, but they speak twenty different languages because it's
from all your diverse different territories or whatever, and it's just like, you
gotta have like communications, the fucking problem. Xanthemis comes in, change the
shit up it does, takes his army U now leading with the war offense,
to meet Regulus at the Bigratis River, and he pulls off decisive victory,
even capturing Regulus. Oh so they got the console. We don't negotiate
with Terrass. So his reward for potentially saving Carthage, Xanthepis was chased out
of town. Why Carthage the shine? The shine was too heavy on,
too jealous. He came through stunting so hard. Oh whatever, dude,
We could have fucking led with the war elephants, fucking like anyone could have
came up with Nobody could have said, let's do the elephants first. Oh,
do the elephants first. That's not even that creative. No, it
was more like Drake. It was like, oh, this dude, this
dude's a problem. We got we gotta we gotta get him out, sending
Kendrick to kill him pretty much. I think they were maybe concerned that if
he just kept winning battles, maybe the Carthage people would be like, hey,
maybe he should just run everything. Yeah, you do it. The
guy who keeps winning a bad way to run, and he shouldn't be afraid
of success. Now yeah, yeah, you don't chase off the talent.
No, no, So we got Regulus and he's captured. He is,
So Regulus goes back to the Carthage. They do, but they ask that
he goes to Rome ask for their unconditional surrender. Sure, and then after
come on back and die. Oh, then we need your word that you're
gonna go to Rome. You're gonna ask for their surrender. You guys are
gonna surrender. You're gonna come back with the peace treaty, the offering,
bend the knee, and then also what we're gonna take your head right then
we will behead you after you've done all these things for us. So Regulus,
being a man of honor, does just that. What he goes back
to Rome. Obviously, the senate are like, why the hell will we
take the l We're so close to catching the dub Regulus agrees and they should
continue to fight. But since he gave Carthage his word he would return,
and he did just that. He went back to Carthage was torched to death,
and he became an immortalized symbol of Roman virtue by Carthage for keeping his
word. So he got what he originally wanted because he got his statues.
Want to make a statue, ye, just by the people on the other
side, because he's a man of his words. Flags fly forever. You
didn't specify where he won't wear that flag was gonna fly, but hooker by
crook. Roman ships went to pick up the rest of the soldiers stuck in
Africa after Regulus gets executed, to regroup and strategize again in Sicily. After
picking up the stranded, they were caught in a massive storm on the way
back off the coast. In two hundred and eighty four Roman ships, or
nearly eighty percent of their entire fleet, was lost, and over one hundred
thousand men drowned. Good lord, it'd be a sick place to send James
Cameron. Just find all those ships. Yeah, you'll find one hundred thousand
Roman bones loosely, all in the same place. Yeah, although they're obviously
dissolved, I guess of that, but you can find other stuff. Would
they be dissolved? Oh yeah, yeah, you're right. Yeah, they're
long God, but Uh, the all their other shit should still be there,
like any metal yeah, whatever, that'll be there. Get those bronze
ram in devices. Hell yeah, get the corpus. They go back to
pick up the boys and then everyone's gone. They took an L from gods.
Yeah, so in the Carthage is like, all right, ball,
You'll start to realize that Rome takes a lot of nature. L's not a
whole lot of l's on the battlefield Rome. But Rome also doesn't take no
for an answer. They don't even even if it seems overwhelmingly obvious that the
answer is no. They themselves are like no, they're too aggressive. Yeah,
like they just no. Is like, there's rob the console only has
a year, Yeah, to accomplish what he wants to do. And when
you make glory, when swelory When when one console gets a no, that's
just that's not a console to or that's not a node to Rome, that's
a note of the console, then there's a new console. Question gets reasked,
all gas, no breaks, Yeah, all gas. But we are
on now leon Roy Jenkins. Uh the third fleet of ships not yet or
they're building it. Sorry. This is the second this second one that goes
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back to the show. Run responds by building two hundred and twenty more ships
in the next three months. Good lord, they were a factory that economy
boom and create jobs. Oh yeah, Carthage is a job creator. Maybe
not jobs, but maybe slaves, probably slaves. Yeah, whatever, it
still is creating jobs because there's just not they're not that many slaves. They
send their brand new fleet out and it gets caught in another massacre of a
storm and they lose one hundred and fifty ships almost immediately. Eh, right
after they build two hundred and twenty eh, build some more. At this
point they do. Rome was still not deterred and went back to building more
ships, as Carthage was just stunned at the audacity of their enemies actions.
Spite me once, these guys will not stop. Yeah, they keep just
getting lost to the sea, but they come back strong. There's nothing like
Neptune literally rises up every time they touch water and just murders them. And
they're like, you won't do it again. You won't Rome decides though,
maybe let's shift the war back to Sicily. It's closer. You don't have
to navigate the season, Yeah, a little easier to They lay siege to
the incredibly fortified city of Lily Bayum in two hundred and fifty PC that would
last for nine years. During this time, Carthage sends their best military mind,
Hamilcar Barka Handibal's dad, to Sicily, and he starts a gorilla warfare
campaign picking off Roman legions behind the enemy lines. Okay, I feel like
Sicily is not that big, but I guess everything is bigger back then because
you can't travel as fast. So they're laying siege on this giant town,
this giant city, on Sicily, and Hamilcar is just kind of going rogue,
just hitting the supply line, doing his own thing. Yeah. Yeah,
so he's not even really attached to anybody else in the Carthage military.
Also, I know they're laying siege to it, but like, does little
Bio or whatever still have access to the sea uninterrupted? So it does.
It's a port, right, which means there's no blockade at this time.
Now. Yeah, so it's fine, Like the whole point of a siege
is like, you can't get stuff. We surrounded you. Romans try to
have a little blockade right there, but it's not really successful what they're doing,
right, so supply they just built these boats again, Supplies still come
pouring in, because again, the whole point of a siege is like in
four years, you won't have any food left. But if you have an
open port and you're a part of a naval empire and no one can blockade
your port from let it getting shit in there, then then your siege is
just you're just standing outside of a city at that point, true, man,
At this point, come, Yeah, most of Carthag's ships are tied
up in the war effort, and a lot of them have been destroyed.
They aren't churning ships out like Romas. I don't think they're like rebuilding their
navy quite as much. Rome's taking these huge l's and Carthage just taking like
little percentages here and there by a thousand cuts. Yeah, like Carthage is
your RPG player, and they're not getting heels. Yeah, but the war
see lands start to grind to a standstill. At this time, Roman Council
Claudius Pulcher once to go off the map and attack the Carthage fleet at Drypana.
Before engaging, however, he tried to feed some chickens to see if
it was a sign from the gods that they would feast. The chickens would
not eat, however, so poultr delayed the attack, waiting for another sign.
Smart. Smart. The gods answered by having the rum and boats dismantled
by Carthaginians. What like they showed up as a press attack, pulled them
apart or ram them. Okay, classic Carthaginians, Yeah, naval tactics,
Yeah, ram through them. So he didn't read the sign right. The
chickens weren't eating, and it's like you both ain't gonna eat either. Well,
this is also like an over coaching tactic too, because the Romans at
this point in time have pulled the corpuses off the ships. But what the
corpus? Oh yeah, so the thing that was basically winning them all their
battles on the rebuilding process, they were like, yeah, we don't really
need they're getting too cute yep, what got them to the dance they no
longer took. Yeah, it's like type of thing where it's like there was
a time in colleg football for a while where you do the spread offense.
But then people would be like, we gotta grow up, man, We
can't just keep doing the spread, you know, like on the rock.
Yeah, but you got you gotta be like if you want to be like
a real successful team, you gotta start, you know, yeah, pounding
the rock. Are you getting a little more pro style? Like, Okay,
it's fine the spread, goddess this far, It's like, no,
dude, keep slinging it, slinging, sling it forever away from the bubble
screen. Also, another storm just savages a Roman fleet and fifty thousand more
men die. Is this? I feel like the Mediterranean is kind of storm
free. It must have hit a bad month, like for real, like
the Mediterranean, So like southern California is considered a Mediterranean climate, right,
Okay, there's earthquakes certainly there, but that's not even a Mediterranean thing.
It's just where la is but in San Francisco and stuff is. But like,
in general, it's pretty mild in terms of like storms and shit like
that. Global warming bro oh hmmm hm different times. Yeah. Well,
also gods attracted yeah yeah. Also the Carthaginians apparently had obviously the ball.
This Ball a storm god. No, he's a plant god plant fertility.
But it requires rain for plant fertility, so maybe he does control the weather.
Okay, I don't know. Oh no, no, yeah. Storm
Ball was particularly associated with the storm and fertility god Hadad and his local manifestations.
So like balls, they just make Ball got of everything he was.
I mean, he was their main guy. He was there, dude,
so he probably took over multi He wore many hats, so Hadad was Ball's
boy, I think. Okay, So like Ball would just be like,
hey, my guys or are in trouble. I'm gonna call my best friend,
the storm god. It's a good plan. Yeah yeah, yeah,
it seems sorry. Ball is the god of fertility, weather, rain,
wind, lightning, seasons, war, and sailors. There you go.
So this is uh oh dude, Carthage probably sacrificed so many children during this
time over twenty three years. Oh how many kids? How did they even
have any people left at that point? It's like the Ukraine pretty much.
After twenty three years, both sides were exhausted. They had no money,
no supplies, no men, and neither was particularly close to claiming the overall
win, Carthage called back much of their naval and landforces and left Hamilcar to
essentially fend for himself in Sicily, thinking there was no way Rome would continue
to triple and quadruple and just a hundred down on their new fleet. They
would just keep building boats. But they're wrong. No for an answer.
No, no is never a final answer to Rome. It's an answer.
But they're just like, all right, it's like the worst, the most
annoying salesman you've ever dealt with. They're like, Okay, I hear you,
I hear you. I better like there was ever you live in a
house, right, yeah, if you get the fucking bug people al soliciting
by fuck dude. No, it's more like startup culture again. They're just
like, we're failing. Let's spend our way out of this. Something will
make it big. Yeah. Carthage turned much of their military fleet back into
merchant ships and tried to get back to making that sweet, sweet trade in
money, unaware that Rome refused to fizzle out. The final straw was at
the End Gates, where the new Roman fleet dismantled a now underfunded and minimal
Carthage war fleet Realizing Rome would never quit under any circumstances, Carthage called for
Hamilcar to negotiate a peace deal. Hamilcar, displeased with the order and film
betrayed by his own senate, hinted it off to a subordinate Gisco. I
like, that's just such a nightmare to be like, oh my god,
oh my god, they're back. Oh Jesus Christ, they will not stop.
Also, Hamilcar has to be thinking, they're asking me to surrender.
But everyone that surrenders or loses a bat or does anything gets crucified. Right,
what am I gonna do? He's just been playing solo campaign, just
crushing it. He's at the blackjack table. Yeah, he's doing well.
Yeah yeah yeah. So he's like, what do you mean me surrender?
What we have to go home? It's your problem, Yeah, it's marketing
problem. Rushing it in Sicily the Treaty of Lutatius. I believe it's called
Lutatious. I didn't look it up. Whatever was signed, Carthage evacuated Sicily,
handed over all Roman prisoners, and agreed to a payment of thirty two
hundred talents of silvery year to the Romans over the next ten years, which
I didn't do the translation with a lot of money. Yeah, I'm sure
it's like a crippling amount of money. Well, they hit them. They
hit them with the twenty two thousand silver talents they had to pay over twenty
years, and they were like Gucci, and they came back with the Nah,
we're gonna need that like another ten on top of that, and then
I'm gonna need it in ten. I think it's worth noting that Carthage did
control the biggest silver mines in the known world at that time. Spain good
silver country. Not yet, No, Yeah they were, they were mining
silver in Spain. The silver never leaves, no, But I thought it
was Hannibal's campaign in Spain where they gained those silver mines. I'm pretty sure
they already had them. There could be wrong with that, but I could
have sworn they already had him Rome along with the silver, and Sicily took
Sardina and Corsica without conflict, even though that was not a part of the
treaty like we had Sicily. Those kind of looked like Sicily. Their islands
they're around us. Corsica obviously the birthplace of Napoleon. Yep, these harsh
and even unagreed to terms led to a simmeron rage and Carthage, specifically in
the household of Hamil called Barca, who would of course passed down his unfiltered
hatred for the Romans to his son Hannibal. Thank god he didn't have any
Jews to blame. It's like Germany between World War One and World War Two.
They're like, I swear to God, we should have won. We
should have won. Somebody's fault. That's kind of how animals like the politicians.
Yeah, it's like those damn politicians made me surrender. And he's like,
now we got to go basically go to Spain and murder a bunch of
people and get all this money for them. And Carthage is a pretty diverse
place at this point. Yeah, it's like a fucking crossroads. Like it's
it's a merchant it's like a port city. Yeah, he goes He goes
up to young Hannibal in his crib and grabs him and he's like, you
will you will avenge me, avenge me, son, avenge coffee me.
Yeah, and you want to hear about the Second Punic War. We did
an episode on that on Hannibal. Yes with with Jake way back. Not
that you're like you're ago when Oppenheimer came out. I wrote it when I
was on Mushrooms after oh yeah, because we'd already done our Oppenheimer episode,
so we went and saw Oppenheimer. Then you were on Mushrooms already and it
was like one in the morning. You're like, I was like, I'll
just stay up and write an episode on Hannibal. Sounds like a nightmare.
That was great, not a good time. I had a great time here
tonight. Thank you guys for having me here. I really appreciate it coming
man, ha would you learn today if you learned anything I learned, Uh,
don't step on the host toes or he will throw you out of a
podcast. I heard that Rob will apply every tactic that he can try to
get a leg up a total conversation. Uh, and how I am Rome
at this point? I think you're sponsored by Total War. I don't know
if they're giving you a check that you haven't told Dan about. But I
haven't seen her dying, nor will you ever. You don't even know who
makes Total War. That's the company, so well I want to they will
never sponsor this show use promo code softcore. That's nothing. We got to
get like one of those awful phone games to sponsor us, right, I
know, right, Like what is uh like Classic Clans? Is that cad
Upton's thing? No, but that was even fucking lamer. That was what
was that dumb shit? That was like ebony or was a thing for the
five minutes, it's like build your empire and she's just like in this like
Greek outfit, but it's like a medieval game, I think or something,
and they're like, your empire will last a thousand years. See that?
That's that's Carthage spending a bunch of money trying to break into a market.
UCF my my college also has a little bit of an identity crisis with we
have the Medieval Night, but we also have a bunch of like Greek mythology
and all these different things that then a car together and the spaceman Space Orange,
Space Orange, Space Orange. Could you do a space night? Yeah?
I think you need an astronaut riding some sort of alien steed on a
well he rides Pegasus, all right, astronaut riding Pegasus with a lightsaber?
What do you call that? Fucking thing, the pole, the jousting pole,
joust just a lightsaber jazz whatever lance lance a lightsaber lance a jousted.
You just said that with confidences. What it's called jousting. Well, yeah,
it is jousting. Yeah, hopefully they were trying to make joust in
the thing as like our like it was kind of it was kind of scat
It's it's hard to do like in person goes like this, but if you
do it wrong, you almost like are white nationalists. Yeah, but if
you turn it this way, it's justin Yeah, it's not doesn't work.
It doesn't work at all. It's just too close. It's a euphanism for
sex. Yeah. And also yeah, there's nothing there's nothing good with that.
That's yeah, that doesn't work. Who's today's Hitler? Carthage just for
crucifying everyone that took one l They they killed themselves by killing themselves, killing
too, so many children died. Yeah, I guess Carthage is the bad
guy here. And that's not so there's some people that say, like,
oh, that was like Roman propaganda or whatever. No, they found temples
filled, especially you know what baby bones. It was the Mamartines. They're
lost to history. But they started essentially what was the ancient World War.
Yeah, yep, and they were just a bunch of dudes. It out
just there, you know what. They were welcomed again with open arms to
a very friendly city and they were just bored him, like this is ours
now. Yeah, sucks about killing anyone here. You get you've like you've
already gotten laid. You're pretty drunk, you're kind of over whatever, like
game gambling game is being played at the time, and you're like, dude,
the sweetest thing to do is kill people, Like, just let's just
do it on bored You know, I've lost all my money in this dice
came. It sucks, dude. That's the episode for today. Thanks for
joining us, Nicholas, you're really good people find you. You can find
me at just Georgio on Instagram. Uh me and Dan you should have a
pod together that we might be restarting again. If it ever comes back to
my house, we'll see you. Got to be in town. Also,
I just it feels really good UFC podcast by the way, Yeah, fighting
all things Mixed martial arts. Just to be back in the studio, you
know, it feels like old times. It's nothing has changed, but there's
a bunch more furniture in here now pretty much. Yeah, and uh yeah,
all you old drinking bros fans softcore fans hit me up. I also
don't want to change anything in the studio because only me and you know how
everything work here, right, And if you touch one thing it could cause
like a no, No, it's not that. It's job security. If
I change anything and teach people how to do it, I could lose my
job. Yeah, it's true. I mean you teaching me how to do
anything? That's that was on me. That's kind of why you lost your
job. I was regulus. I pushed too hard off the goal line when
I should have, and I've altered that touch the goal line back over.
Yeah, you did the same thing to me once. It's fine, damn
Yeah. Why do we still like him? I don't know. Do you
make more money than you have ever made in your entire life because of me?
You still still goal line back to me? No? You you,
I've said before you immigrant jobbed me. Yeah yeah, I was a cheaper
labor. Yeah yeah, but I already worked there. I know. Still
they saw, they saw another option, and you you took it instead of
instead of standing on business like Hannibal does. How do we get the same
app output with half the mouth and only three quotas of the money. I'm
a quiet worker, hard man, puts his head down, gets the job
done. But go subscribe to the software history Patreon because keeps these guys in
the furs and the boots. Yeah, we could also just do this for
our whole job if we get to the point where And wouldn't all of you
fans love that because you'll get more content if you don't even want to know
what us off the chain is like, well, this is our only content
we have to focus on. You get stuff from Rob at home. Wouldn't
you want to see dad life? Yeah? Rob came in a little late.
Baby had an oopsie. Hey, he had a little oopsie, dais.
He fell face first onto our fireplace, split his head open. Had
to take him into the er to get a to get some stitches. I
actually still have toddler blood on me. Giorgio was trying to drink it before
I got in for the Adrina crone. Yeah, let me get that lick
it off. I was actually trying to make a sacrifice. Two ball,
two ball, Oh, I bet your Orange are going to go great this
year. Yeah, I just want the patreon to grow, and that was
what the ball sacrifice was for. Don't make me finish the job. Subscribe
to our patreon at patreon dot com. So last sophomore history, yep,
all right, guess and I'm glad it was Finn. You know, he
has to go through some adversity. I mean they've both been to the hospital
at this point. I did that when I was a kid, when I
was too I split my lip open and kind of hunt them down. Oh
really, yeah, do this thing was deep. I fell through a window.
My wife like ran over and she was like, he's bleeding. Get
a thing, like, get a talent. I can see his skull and
literally I was like, uh like within a split second thing and I was
like, no, we need to go to the hospital right now. Like
that needs stitches full stop. That Now that Courtney is a stay at home
mom, she needs to learn how to just kind of put in stitches.
I think I did see his skull, to be honest, I'm not even
joking, because I had to sit there at least it's so it's still soft.
Yeah. Well no, the no, that would be bad because the
front part's the first part that gets hard on the baby because that's where they
eat it the most. And uh like they were telling me about that,
but I had to. So the way you give a one year old stitches,
by the way, you got to get them one of those helmets a
stew pickles makes and rugrats and then play football in with the milk. Uh
Rory had one of those, but that was because his skull was weird.
How you have a baby stitches is you wrap them up in a sheet so
they can't move, and then you lay down on them while a nurse holds
their fucking head because they're just like no, no, no, So god,
what I'd like watch a needle go into his not even his epidermis,
like just dermis. I mean you could see well I can see like the
fat in his like for it. It was. It's not great. It's
not what you want to see anyway. Yeah, I had to just like
lean on my child as he's staring at me, like why are you're doing
this to me? They're like it's okay, twinkle twinkle little. He's like,
no, that's a lie. No stars are Twinkler and take him to
uh dermatologists afterwards, he'll be fine. He's one years old. That scar
is gonna be gone. I mean, I've had the ditches on my face
and scars are gone. And that happened to like in college, and shit,
your whole face is like one big scar. What damn fuck does that
mean? It's not nice, but it's mean. I don't understand it,
but it was mean. And with that you just got soft served