1 00:00:00,720 --> 00:00:06,599 You're listening to the Paranormal UK Radio Network, the best in paranormal talk radio 2 00:00:06,759 --> 00:00:12,599 in the UK and around the world. Welcome. When I first met Ron 3 00:00:12,679 --> 00:00:17,199 Kulberson at a social event, I told him that my expertise was in near 4 00:00:17,280 --> 00:00:23,519 death and shared death experiences. He explained his mission in life as bringing humor 5 00:00:23,879 --> 00:00:29,359 to hospice. Well, that got my attention. Welcome to the Afterlife Files, 6 00:00:29,399 --> 00:00:34,560 where we investigate near death experiences, shared death experiences, in all things 7 00:00:34,640 --> 00:00:40,119 afterlife, and how they affect you. Unlike podcasts that are just stories, 8 00:00:40,719 --> 00:00:43,960 we will give you a heads up on what to look for in our conversation, 9 00:00:44,240 --> 00:00:48,920 and then after the interviews stick around. We help you make sense of 10 00:00:48,920 --> 00:00:53,359 those accounts so you can incorporate the insights into your life. I think you'll 11 00:00:53,399 --> 00:00:59,240 find that once having your most profound questions answered, living life in the physical 12 00:00:59,359 --> 00:01:15,760 is filled with more peace and joy. We spent an awful lot of time 13 00:01:15,799 --> 00:01:23,079 at the Afterlife Files talking about what happens after death occurs. Rarely have we 14 00:01:23,159 --> 00:01:26,400 had the opportunity to talk about the process of dying and how to do it 15 00:01:26,439 --> 00:01:33,319 well. The concept of care, that is the hospice experience, is part 16 00:01:33,400 --> 00:01:38,599 of that having humor as part of that experience helps us look at the experience 17 00:01:38,640 --> 00:01:45,560 of dying with a new lighter lens. It gives us a new perspective. 18 00:01:47,079 --> 00:01:51,760 With a master's degree in social work, Ron Culberson spent the first part of 19 00:01:51,760 --> 00:01:57,400 his career working in a large hospice organization as a clinical social worker, middle 20 00:01:57,439 --> 00:02:02,799 manager and Seeing Your Leader. As a speaker, humorist, and author of 21 00:02:02,879 --> 00:02:07,719 four books, including Do It Well, Make It Fun, The Key to 22 00:02:07,840 --> 00:02:14,719 Success in Life, Death, and Almost Everything in Between. Ron's mission is 23 00:02:14,759 --> 00:02:21,319 to change the workplace culture so that organizations are more productive and staff are more 24 00:02:21,319 --> 00:02:28,479 content. He was the past president of the National Speakers Association and is a 25 00:02:28,520 --> 00:02:34,560 recognized expert on the benefit of humor and laughter. I hope you have fun 26 00:02:35,039 --> 00:02:46,960 watching our interview. Hey, Ron, we are really glad to have you 27 00:02:46,000 --> 00:02:50,719 with us here at the Afterlife Files. Welcome. Thanks a lot. I'm 28 00:02:50,759 --> 00:02:55,000 so glad to be here. I'm glad you're here too. So tell us 29 00:02:55,039 --> 00:03:00,879 about hospice. What does that mean? Are their misconceptions about what it is 30 00:03:00,919 --> 00:03:05,800 that happens in hospice. I think that's probably one of the most challenging parts 31 00:03:05,800 --> 00:03:09,759 of hospice is the understanding of what it's all about. So it came to 32 00:03:09,800 --> 00:03:16,280 this country in the late seventies and and basically it came about because in England 33 00:03:16,400 --> 00:03:23,159 a woman named Sicily Saunders found that when people got into a situation with a 34 00:03:23,280 --> 00:03:29,159 terminal illness or an illness that was not curable and may have some time limit, 35 00:03:29,240 --> 00:03:34,360 that really the mainstream healthcare system didn't have anything for them, and there 36 00:03:34,439 --> 00:03:39,000 was a lot of attempts at cure and putting people through unnecessary tests and just 37 00:03:39,719 --> 00:03:46,439 kind of an environment that really wasn't conducive to healing. So she created a 38 00:03:46,520 --> 00:03:50,800 concept of hospice. Down England, hospice was a place typically that you would 39 00:03:50,840 --> 00:03:54,919 go, but in the United States it's primarily home care. It's a concept 40 00:03:54,960 --> 00:04:00,879 of care. It's a holistic type of approach to care. So the vast 41 00:04:00,919 --> 00:04:03,319 majority of it's done in people's homes because that's where most people want to be. 42 00:04:04,039 --> 00:04:09,639 And it involves a team of professionals that include a social work or a 43 00:04:09,719 --> 00:04:16,040 nurse, a doctor, a chaplain, volunteers, occupational therapists and physical therapist 44 00:04:16,160 --> 00:04:21,319 is needed, but the idea is to treat the whole person with comfort measures 45 00:04:21,319 --> 00:04:26,560 and what's called palliative care. Not towards cure, but as a way to 46 00:04:26,600 --> 00:04:30,519 make the quality of their life better. And typically it's for people who have 47 00:04:30,639 --> 00:04:35,279 some sort of life limiting illness. And it used to be in the early 48 00:04:35,360 --> 00:04:42,720 days people use the term six months as the as the guideline, but nowadays 49 00:04:42,360 --> 00:04:46,439 they're starting palliative care much sooner, so people can get involved in programs and 50 00:04:46,720 --> 00:04:51,680 it evolves into hospice care at some point later down the line. But it's 51 00:04:51,720 --> 00:04:56,720 also covered by Medicave's a really good Medicare benefit that covers hospice care. And 52 00:04:56,800 --> 00:05:02,160 that's that's one of the better aspects of of the of the type of care 53 00:05:02,199 --> 00:05:06,040 that it is because it does have good support through Medicare. Yeah. Nice. 54 00:05:06,319 --> 00:05:12,680 And so when somebody enters into or why would people want to enter into 55 00:05:12,759 --> 00:05:15,240 the hospitale here, Well, I think it goes back to that concept that 56 00:05:15,920 --> 00:05:19,040 you know, when you're in a hospital or you're in a typical home care 57 00:05:19,079 --> 00:05:26,439 setting, those folks are not necessarily specifically trained to care for people at that 58 00:05:26,560 --> 00:05:30,199 point of an illness towards the end of life. There's a lot of pain 59 00:05:30,360 --> 00:05:33,480 management specialty that goes along with it. There's a lot of psychological and emotional 60 00:05:33,519 --> 00:05:39,360 support that needs to go along with it, and typically hospice folks are better 61 00:05:39,399 --> 00:05:42,480 at that because that's what they're trained to do and they have a lot of 62 00:05:42,519 --> 00:05:46,040 experience in it. So I think it's a point where people need a different 63 00:05:46,079 --> 00:05:50,720 kind of care and these comfort measures can actually be healing. I've seen people 64 00:05:50,720 --> 00:05:57,639 come into a hospice program and get better, not necessarily permanently, but for 65 00:05:57,720 --> 00:06:01,319 a period of time because the type of care is some it's better nice. 66 00:06:01,639 --> 00:06:08,800 So that begs the question of how did you get into it? Why you 67 00:06:08,879 --> 00:06:13,560 know, how does that happen? I don't think of that as a typical 68 00:06:13,680 --> 00:06:16,839 career path. Yeah, so I was the youngest person in my hospice Back 69 00:06:16,879 --> 00:06:20,639 in the day, in the mid eighties, most people didn't go into hospice 70 00:06:20,720 --> 00:06:24,680 right out of school. It was usually people doing a second career, like 71 00:06:25,480 --> 00:06:29,279 a nurse who might have been an oncology nurse or a family practice nurse going 72 00:06:29,319 --> 00:06:33,279 into into that as a second second part of her career or his career. 73 00:06:34,000 --> 00:06:38,839 Doctors same way. So I had had an experience in graduate school where I 74 00:06:38,879 --> 00:06:42,639 had a seven year old nephew that died of a brain tumor, and it 75 00:06:42,639 --> 00:06:46,800 occurred to me at that point that I'm twenty five years old and never really 76 00:06:46,879 --> 00:06:51,040 thought about this, thought about the process, thought about grief, thought about 77 00:06:51,079 --> 00:06:55,040 loss. I grew up in a small town, so I went to a 78 00:06:55,120 --> 00:06:59,279 lot of funerals growing up, but it just didn't process it and just start 79 00:06:59,319 --> 00:07:02,439 exploring it. Did a paper in grad school on it. When I came 80 00:07:02,439 --> 00:07:06,360 out of school as a social worker, applied to a number of different jobs 81 00:07:06,480 --> 00:07:10,439 and that was the one I got. And I'll tell you, as a 82 00:07:10,519 --> 00:07:13,160 twenty five year old, I don't think there's a better job to start your 83 00:07:13,160 --> 00:07:16,079 career off than working with people at the end of their lives and sort of 84 00:07:16,160 --> 00:07:23,160 learning from them about what they they learned and processed in their own lives. 85 00:07:24,399 --> 00:07:30,959 Okay, give us a hint on what some of those high moments where well, 86 00:07:30,040 --> 00:07:34,120 I think I think the biggest ehah for me was is nobody knows when, 87 00:07:34,240 --> 00:07:39,240 where, or how they're going to die. We all know we will, 88 00:07:39,279 --> 00:07:42,839 I mean, that's pretty much a guarantee, but but we don't know. 89 00:07:43,040 --> 00:07:45,439 We don't know when or when that will happen, how that will happen. 90 00:07:45,480 --> 00:07:49,600 And so this I used to have a button in my office at hospice 91 00:07:49,639 --> 00:07:53,560 that said, live each day as if it were your last, because one 92 00:07:53,600 --> 00:07:57,639 day'll be right. And I think that's hilarious. It's both, it's both 93 00:07:57,720 --> 00:08:01,040 hilarious and so profound. Now it doesn't mean you throw caution in the way 94 00:08:01,079 --> 00:08:05,160 and do anything you want. But what it what it taught me was you 95 00:08:05,279 --> 00:08:09,879 live. You have to live in order to have that full experience of life. 96 00:08:09,120 --> 00:08:15,519 And and and sometimes we worked too much, or we put off those 97 00:08:15,519 --> 00:08:20,279 things that are important too long. And and just very briefly, I met 98 00:08:20,319 --> 00:08:24,560 a number of people who, you know, said they worked their whole life 99 00:08:24,560 --> 00:08:28,240 to retire and then six months after they retired, they were dead or they 100 00:08:28,240 --> 00:08:33,120 had a terminal illness, and and I just thought, well, that's that's 101 00:08:33,159 --> 00:08:35,679 not the way to do this, that's not the route to go. So 102 00:08:35,840 --> 00:08:41,440 that had a huge impact changed everything in the way that I saw life and 103 00:08:41,480 --> 00:08:46,799 death. That's nice. I imagine you met some extraordinary people at the end 104 00:08:46,799 --> 00:08:52,399 of their life. Oh yeah, it really I told I tell people I 105 00:08:52,440 --> 00:08:56,279 speak a lot in healthcare, So I tell people in these jobs where they're 106 00:08:56,279 --> 00:09:00,720 working in healthcare environments, if you're not learning from your patients, really are 107 00:09:00,759 --> 00:09:05,240 not paying attention, because they teach us they've already lived, so they you 108 00:09:05,279 --> 00:09:09,519 can learn so much from that process. So I met extraordinary people as patients, 109 00:09:09,559 --> 00:09:13,519 but also the people that worked beside me. Just the people that are 110 00:09:13,600 --> 00:09:16,799 drawn to that type of work are I think, are really kind of cool 111 00:09:16,879 --> 00:09:24,080 people. Yeah, I really huge, heart rounded, yep, smart, 112 00:09:24,039 --> 00:09:28,519 you know, I really admire the people who have chosen that field. So 113 00:09:28,879 --> 00:09:35,919 what kind of memories do you have of of people and incidents that stick out 114 00:09:35,960 --> 00:09:41,919 for you. Well, I this is a story I often tell, and 115 00:09:41,960 --> 00:09:46,399 I'll try to abbreviate it, but one of the things that I talk about 116 00:09:46,639 --> 00:09:52,519 is the balance between seeking excellence and enjoying the process in life, So doing 117 00:09:52,559 --> 00:09:56,399 a good job at whatever you do, but making the journey fun. And 118 00:09:56,480 --> 00:10:03,039 I remember meeting this woman who who just was this extraordinary person. And when 119 00:10:03,120 --> 00:10:07,440 I met her and her family, I realized that this family was just so 120 00:10:07,519 --> 00:10:11,000 tight and great relationships, and it all went back to her. It was 121 00:10:11,039 --> 00:10:15,360 just who she was. She had created this environment where she had a great 122 00:10:15,399 --> 00:10:20,679 relationship with her husband and kids, and she was terminally ill and she had 123 00:10:20,679 --> 00:10:24,559 a change in her health. They didn't think it was related to her illness. 124 00:10:24,960 --> 00:10:30,480 They thought it might be something like an infection or medication reaction. So 125 00:10:30,600 --> 00:10:35,000 they brought her into our inpatient facility. We had a twelve bed infacient facility 126 00:10:35,360 --> 00:10:39,679 that was very comfortable setting like a home and just you know, flowered sheets, 127 00:10:39,840 --> 00:10:43,600 wallpaper, hardwood floors, just a beautiful setting. And I went to 128 00:10:43,639 --> 00:10:46,480 see her one day when she got in there, a couple of days after 129 00:10:46,480 --> 00:10:52,240 she got in there, and I could tell that she was definitely different than 130 00:10:52,279 --> 00:10:56,000 when i'd seen her before. She she didn't her color was different. She 131 00:10:56,039 --> 00:11:00,679 was having trouble breathing. She looked very weak, and I asked her how 132 00:11:00,679 --> 00:11:03,559 she was doing, and she said not good. And I said, are 133 00:11:03,600 --> 00:11:05,679 you getting everything she need? You need? And she just she just went, 134 00:11:05,720 --> 00:11:11,360 oh, they're spoiling me. They anticipate my needs. I didn't expect 135 00:11:11,399 --> 00:11:15,000 the answer. Yeah, they bring me things before I know I need them. 136 00:11:15,360 --> 00:11:18,519 And then she just leaned up on the bed and she was trembling because 137 00:11:18,559 --> 00:11:22,279 she was so weak, and just took this long gaze around the room and 138 00:11:22,320 --> 00:11:26,720 she said, you know this place, this place, it's so beautiful. 139 00:11:26,840 --> 00:11:28,039 She said, you know, I'd heard so much about it. I was 140 00:11:28,120 --> 00:11:33,120 dying to see it. Oh, and then she fell fell back on her 141 00:11:33,120 --> 00:11:37,200 pillow and just started laughing and uh, you know, I'm sitting there thinking 142 00:11:37,320 --> 00:11:41,480 as a social worker, what am I supposed to do now? And uh 143 00:11:41,600 --> 00:11:45,360 and so we just had this moment of laughter, just rich moment of laughter, 144 00:11:46,200 --> 00:11:50,559 and six hours later she died. And I will tell you it was 145 00:11:50,639 --> 00:11:56,759 just it was just extraordinary. It had a profound impact on me because she 146 00:11:56,919 --> 00:12:01,480 lived her life the way that I tried to encourage people think about living, 147 00:12:01,480 --> 00:12:05,600 which is that she did it well. Clearly her family was evidence of that. 148 00:12:05,159 --> 00:12:09,960 But in that moment when most of us could think of nothing else than 149 00:12:09,000 --> 00:12:13,200 our illness, she wasn't going to miss a chance to laugh and enjoy the 150 00:12:13,279 --> 00:12:18,960 moment. So there's just so much packed into that experience that I'll never forget 151 00:12:20,000 --> 00:12:24,320 it. Oh that's a that's a lovely thing. And we spoiled it with 152 00:12:24,399 --> 00:12:31,919 flowered cheets and yeah. Yeah. So sometimes people that are in hospice are 153 00:12:33,120 --> 00:12:39,279 afraid of their transition and you know, what did you do to, you 154 00:12:39,320 --> 00:12:41,759 know, help them get over that? Well, you know, if you 155 00:12:41,799 --> 00:12:45,399 look at the research, and you know, I have been out of it 156 00:12:45,399 --> 00:12:46,679 for a number of years, so this may have been updated, but I 157 00:12:48,320 --> 00:12:52,440 remember back then that much of the research said that the vast majority of people 158 00:12:52,480 --> 00:12:56,000 were more concerned about the process than the actual death. That it was being 159 00:12:56,159 --> 00:13:01,960 in pain or either psychologically or physically. It was the process of dying that 160 00:13:03,159 --> 00:13:09,320 scared people, and I think in particular of people who might be dying of 161 00:13:09,360 --> 00:13:13,799 some sort of respiratory disease. How how how scary that is to not be 162 00:13:13,879 --> 00:13:18,799 able to breathe or to feel that you can't get your breath. So so 163 00:13:18,039 --> 00:13:24,279 in a hospice environment, we had chaplains and social workers to help with the 164 00:13:24,360 --> 00:13:30,559 spiritual and the psychological challenges that people would have, to help them wrestle with 165 00:13:30,639 --> 00:13:33,320 some of that and what the fear was about or what, you know, 166 00:13:33,399 --> 00:13:41,480 how their spirituality was affected. And then we had amazing physicians and nurses who 167 00:13:41,559 --> 00:13:46,000 were really really good at managing symptoms. So whether it be a breathing issue 168 00:13:46,159 --> 00:13:50,879 or a pain issue, they were able to manage it where they didn't have 169 00:13:50,919 --> 00:13:54,679 to knock somebody out with a lot of medication. They could they could you 170 00:13:54,960 --> 00:14:00,240 help them to relieve the symptoms, but allow them to still be alert and 171 00:14:00,360 --> 00:14:03,919 enjoy some quality time. So I think it was the combination of looking at 172 00:14:03,919 --> 00:14:09,320 it holistically that really helped support people. Now. Of course people still had 173 00:14:09,399 --> 00:14:15,639 challenges, but I think that approach was just a great way to do it 174 00:14:15,720 --> 00:14:20,519 because you hit all areas of what someone might experience. I know my grandfather 175 00:14:20,759 --> 00:14:26,559 was really concerned that they were going to drug him up and that he would 176 00:14:26,600 --> 00:14:33,879 spend his last moments in days and not be able to participate with the people 177 00:14:33,879 --> 00:14:39,559 who are coming to visit them to say goodbye. I remember I remember a 178 00:14:39,600 --> 00:14:43,480 physician saying that the body is a really amazing, amazing work of art, 179 00:14:43,639 --> 00:14:50,440 and that the body knows how to protect us and oftentimes the body does what 180 00:14:50,480 --> 00:14:54,399 it needs to do as we near that process, and maybe we don't need 181 00:14:54,440 --> 00:14:58,039 as much of the external help. And I was really struck by that. 182 00:14:58,080 --> 00:15:01,840 But you when when when someone is at a point where the pain is so 183 00:15:01,960 --> 00:15:07,960 great, or they're already slipping in and out of awareness or getting very close, 184 00:15:07,279 --> 00:15:13,679 um, you know, the medications can can truly help ease that process. 185 00:15:13,360 --> 00:15:20,639 Yeah, I have this this, I got it. It was Woody 186 00:15:20,720 --> 00:15:24,919 Allen who said, I'm not afraid of death. I just don't want to 187 00:15:24,919 --> 00:15:28,879 be there when it happened, right exactly. I think that's that's very true 188 00:15:28,919 --> 00:15:37,159 of a lot of people. Um, So, you know, a lot 189 00:15:37,200 --> 00:15:46,159 of my folks who come and watch this are really into the what happens after 190 00:15:46,279 --> 00:15:50,759 we die, because you know, near death experiences it's all about, you 191 00:15:50,799 --> 00:15:54,919 know, what happens when we leave our physical bodies and enter into the non 192 00:15:56,000 --> 00:16:03,080 physical. Um. So, did you see people, did they have premonitions 193 00:16:03,159 --> 00:16:07,279 about you know, did they see their dead relatives waiting for them? You 194 00:16:07,320 --> 00:16:11,440 know what kind of tell us a couple of cool stories here. Yeah, 195 00:16:11,480 --> 00:16:18,480 you know, it's interesting. So I worked in hospice care for ten years 196 00:16:18,519 --> 00:16:22,279 now. I only worked in a clinical capacity for about five of those. 197 00:16:22,840 --> 00:16:27,360 And you know, during all of that time, I never was with someone 198 00:16:27,440 --> 00:16:32,240 when they actually died. I was with both of my parents when they died, 199 00:16:32,279 --> 00:16:38,200 and that was really a profound experience to be witness to that. But 200 00:16:38,320 --> 00:16:42,360 I never was really in a hospice setting with someone. I was certainly there 201 00:16:42,879 --> 00:16:48,360 shortly before and shortly after, but not at the time. But it was 202 00:16:48,480 --> 00:16:52,840 not uncommon at all for patients to say that they had dreamed of taking a 203 00:16:52,960 --> 00:16:59,639 trip shortly before they died. It could have been they had a dream about 204 00:16:59,679 --> 00:17:04,079 being a train or catching an airplane. It was not uncommon for people to 205 00:17:04,119 --> 00:17:07,960 say that they had had a dream. That's usually the terms they would use. 206 00:17:08,000 --> 00:17:14,559 I had a dream about seeing a loved one who had died, and 207 00:17:14,599 --> 00:17:18,920 it was consistent enough and frequent enough that it wasn't just random, And so 208 00:17:18,960 --> 00:17:23,279 we did believe there was something too that. While we didn't have the ability 209 00:17:23,319 --> 00:17:30,200 to to say what that was or how that works, it certainly did happen. 210 00:17:30,279 --> 00:17:36,640 And two of two of my friends who worked in hospice with me, 211 00:17:37,640 --> 00:17:42,279 Maggie Collan and Pat Kelly, wrote the book Final Gifts, where they just 212 00:17:42,359 --> 00:17:48,079 give one after another, right, one after another. Example advertisement right there. 213 00:17:48,160 --> 00:17:51,680 Yeah, yeah, And they just had so many examples that they had 214 00:17:51,720 --> 00:17:59,960 seen where people did somehow convey that they were nearing death and that we who 215 00:18:00,039 --> 00:18:03,960 weren't tuned into that might have missed it. But they saw consistent patterns. 216 00:18:04,119 --> 00:18:11,000 And I can't really say that I had anything extraordinary other than the idea that 217 00:18:11,079 --> 00:18:15,200 someone saw someone they loved when they knew where that they've dreamed they were going 218 00:18:15,240 --> 00:18:18,319 on a trip. But um, but they certainly had a number of those 219 00:18:18,359 --> 00:18:25,480 experiences. Yeah. I had a friend of mine who wound up with a 220 00:18:25,640 --> 00:18:36,440 terminal disease and his dream was, um, he was on deck waiting at 221 00:18:36,480 --> 00:18:41,680 the first tee, waiting to tee off. You know, he just loved 222 00:18:41,680 --> 00:18:48,440 the golf and and you know that was that was his his metaphor for where 223 00:18:48,480 --> 00:18:55,519 I'm I'm getting ready to step up and really enjoy this last round. Yeah, 224 00:18:55,559 --> 00:19:04,319 that's great. So you mentioned that um humor is was was a great 225 00:19:04,359 --> 00:19:11,640 thing where you were introduced to it by this lovely woman, and that has 226 00:19:11,680 --> 00:19:17,400 been kind of a focus of yours. Yeah, so how did that happen? 227 00:19:17,759 --> 00:19:21,960 And you know, tell us a little bit about how you shifted into 228 00:19:22,079 --> 00:19:26,960 helping people. Um see the humor and hospice. I love a literation. 229 00:19:27,720 --> 00:19:30,759 Yeah. Well, um, I was the guy that wanted to be class 230 00:19:30,839 --> 00:19:37,559 clown in high school and and I surprised me. Yeah, I got teachers 231 00:19:37,599 --> 00:19:41,200 pet which just really irritated me. But I grew up in a small town 232 00:19:41,279 --> 00:19:45,839 and I knew everybody, so that that certainly made sense. But so I 233 00:19:45,960 --> 00:19:49,440 was I was never the kind of guy that was drawn to doing stand up 234 00:19:49,480 --> 00:19:53,319 comedy. A number of my friends have done that, and I just didn't 235 00:19:53,359 --> 00:19:56,480 like the environment. I thought, you know, to be in a club 236 00:19:56,839 --> 00:20:00,200 with a lot of drunk people. And of course, back when I was 237 00:20:00,240 --> 00:20:03,240 younger, people would be smoking, I just thought, and then everybody's expectations 238 00:20:03,240 --> 00:20:07,519 were so high that just sounded miserable to me. But I had always been 239 00:20:07,559 --> 00:20:11,960 a fan of humor. I'd always been funny. I always liked humor. 240 00:20:11,359 --> 00:20:15,720 I just studied comedians when I was young. So I got to grad school 241 00:20:15,759 --> 00:20:19,200 and one of my professors, the guy that was my professor for my research 242 00:20:19,279 --> 00:20:26,039 project, my thesis, he allowed me to study a relationship between humor and 243 00:20:26,039 --> 00:20:29,440 depression. So I did a research study at the University of Virginia in their 244 00:20:29,480 --> 00:20:33,160 Department of Behavioral Medicine because that's where I was working part time, and we 245 00:20:33,200 --> 00:20:40,319 studied how people saw, of all things far side cartoons, which we now 246 00:20:40,400 --> 00:20:44,839 know is deeply flawed because if some of them are so bizarre, how they 247 00:20:44,880 --> 00:20:49,279 saw humor at different points during stages of depression. And it didn't come up 248 00:20:49,279 --> 00:20:55,079 with anything profound or different. It just replicated previous studies that showed that when 249 00:20:55,119 --> 00:20:57,880 people are seriously depressed, they didn't see anything funny, but as they started 250 00:20:57,880 --> 00:21:03,960 to heal or would sometimes speed up the process or help the process. So 251 00:21:04,119 --> 00:21:11,279 I'm asked this just boxes and boxes of research on humor and literally became an 252 00:21:11,319 --> 00:21:15,400 expert in the benefits of humor, and I thought, well, you know, 253 00:21:15,440 --> 00:21:17,839 I'm kind of a ham I like being in front of people, so 254 00:21:17,920 --> 00:21:21,839 maybe I can start teaching this. And let's started going to a few conferences 255 00:21:21,839 --> 00:21:25,440 and teaching about the therapeutic benefits of humor, why it helps us, why 256 00:21:25,440 --> 00:21:30,880 it's beneficial to us. And that's how I ultimately got into the professional speaking 257 00:21:30,920 --> 00:21:36,319 career that I've been doing for the past twenty six years. Was that I 258 00:21:36,359 --> 00:21:40,880 did that in my role in hospice by speaking in hospice conferences but about humor, 259 00:21:41,000 --> 00:21:44,839 why humor is helpful to us. And you know, as I've said 260 00:21:44,880 --> 00:21:48,000 before, if you're talking about humor at a hospice conference, you stand out 261 00:21:48,039 --> 00:21:52,960 like a sore thumb. Nobody else is doing, you know, So to 262 00:21:52,119 --> 00:21:57,480 my great benefit, I did stand out and started getting a lot of requests 263 00:21:57,480 --> 00:22:02,920 to speak. But but also in my clinical work in hospice, I always 264 00:22:03,000 --> 00:22:07,519 asked that in my initial interview patients what role humor played in their life or 265 00:22:07,920 --> 00:22:11,880 if they valued humor. And my purpose for that was it would give you 266 00:22:11,960 --> 00:22:18,359 a window into their psychological way of looking at the world. If if I 267 00:22:18,359 --> 00:22:21,160 asked somebody how they use humor and they said, well, what's funny about 268 00:22:21,160 --> 00:22:27,119 this? You clearly could see defensiveness and maybe a lack of being able to 269 00:22:27,799 --> 00:22:30,799 use or see humor. But if somebody said, oh, you know, 270 00:22:30,920 --> 00:22:36,319 we we do joke telling sessions every night after dinner, then you know they 271 00:22:36,319 --> 00:22:38,839 were open to the idea and perhaps it could be used as a tool to 272 00:22:38,920 --> 00:22:44,559 help them balance out the stress of the illness. So I did use it 273 00:22:44,599 --> 00:22:48,240 in that way in my clinical work, but primarily I used it in teaching. 274 00:22:51,799 --> 00:22:56,079 And so when you were doing this, this hospice work and you were 275 00:22:56,079 --> 00:23:03,079 talking about humor, is this for the initiations? Was it for the management 276 00:23:03,160 --> 00:23:08,400 staff, for everybody? I mean, how did that work? My primary 277 00:23:08,519 --> 00:23:15,359 role, or my primary way of teaching about humor was to always use it 278 00:23:15,440 --> 00:23:25,359 as a psychological advantage or a social advantage. And so to get into sort 279 00:23:25,359 --> 00:23:29,599 of the mechanics of it. There are two things specifically in the humor research 280 00:23:29,680 --> 00:23:33,279 that I think allows us to cope with stress. One is that if you 281 00:23:33,319 --> 00:23:37,279 can laugh in the midst of something stressful, you create a moment of reprieve 282 00:23:37,440 --> 00:23:41,079 from the stress, which gives you a little bit of distance from the stress 283 00:23:41,160 --> 00:23:45,960 and the stress. Research will show that if you can get a break from 284 00:23:45,000 --> 00:23:49,200 it, it helps you rejuvenate even just a second or two, and allows 285 00:23:49,200 --> 00:23:52,680 you to continue coping. So that was one way, So just being able 286 00:23:52,759 --> 00:23:56,759 to laugh in the midst of stress can be helpful. But the second and 287 00:23:56,880 --> 00:24:00,960 a more powerful way that I think humor benefits is that, by its very 288 00:24:02,119 --> 00:24:07,039 nature, changes our way of seeing things. So let's just say that a 289 00:24:07,079 --> 00:24:10,000 lot of stress is based on how we see something, not so much what's 290 00:24:10,039 --> 00:24:14,160 happening, but how we're seeing it. If we could change the way we're 291 00:24:14,200 --> 00:24:18,559 seeing it, perhaps it wouldn't be stressful in the first place, and we 292 00:24:18,559 --> 00:24:22,960 can get into a whole other area of mindfulness when it comes to this kind 293 00:24:22,960 --> 00:24:26,759 of thing about what we're actually processing in our minds. But the very nature 294 00:24:26,799 --> 00:24:32,359 of a joke is that it takes you down one path and then changes directions, 295 00:24:32,799 --> 00:24:37,240 forcing you to see the original premise differently. Well, that's just changing 296 00:24:37,240 --> 00:24:41,000 your perspective. So my theory is is that the more humor we enjoy, 297 00:24:41,079 --> 00:24:47,160 the more we allow ourselves to train the neural pathways in our brain to see 298 00:24:47,200 --> 00:24:52,279 the humor in life, then perhaps that allows us to also manage the way 299 00:24:52,319 --> 00:24:56,119 we see stress. A little bit differently, and so I was always teaching 300 00:24:56,119 --> 00:24:59,240 people just to try to incorporate it more in their lives, whether it be 301 00:24:59,359 --> 00:25:03,200 in management leadership. I definitely think there's a communication benefit. If somebody is 302 00:25:03,240 --> 00:25:07,279 funny in the way that communicate something, it sticks, People remember it, 303 00:25:07,319 --> 00:25:11,960 People remember the person. And I mean I used to say, I'm no 304 00:25:11,119 --> 00:25:15,880 dummy. I know that if I say something funny, people will remember me. 305 00:25:15,920 --> 00:25:18,720 So it was the way I used to always go into new situations was 306 00:25:18,799 --> 00:25:22,839 that's how people would remember me. And so I used it as an advantage 307 00:25:23,000 --> 00:25:30,759 in a lot of different ways. Yeah. Well, similarly, I wear 308 00:25:30,799 --> 00:25:34,920 a kilt, so people often remember you know who I am because I show 309 00:25:36,000 --> 00:25:38,039 up and I you know, there's a guy in a skirt who don't call 310 00:25:38,079 --> 00:25:44,559 it that, you know I Yeah, yeah, Well it's because of you 311 00:25:44,599 --> 00:25:48,559 know, this academic area that I'm in, because you know, in order 312 00:25:48,599 --> 00:25:53,720 for me to be get really smart and about near death experiences, you have 313 00:25:53,759 --> 00:25:56,920 to talk to a whole bunch of people who have been guilt and brought back 314 00:25:56,920 --> 00:26:03,279 to life again. Yeah, you're right, right, all right, dad, 315 00:26:03,359 --> 00:26:07,119 joke there. Okay, Well, you know, give you an example, 316 00:26:07,160 --> 00:26:10,880 because I think there's so much truth to that. And first time I 317 00:26:10,920 --> 00:26:14,680 met you, you were wearing killed, so I definitely remember that. And 318 00:26:15,000 --> 00:26:21,000 ironically, one of my best friends, his last name is mckeyon and and 319 00:26:21,200 --> 00:26:25,359 he his daughter got married recently and he were killed to the wedding, so 320 00:26:25,839 --> 00:26:29,000 you know, it was it was just a few weeks after before I saw 321 00:26:29,039 --> 00:26:33,559 you. But let me give you an example. So we talked about offline. 322 00:26:33,599 --> 00:26:36,160 We talked a little bit about rotary. And I was involved in a 323 00:26:36,240 --> 00:26:38,720 chamber of commerce for a little while and we would have these networking meetings where 324 00:26:38,759 --> 00:26:44,440 you would go and you'd need other businesses and either would always have be that 325 00:26:44,519 --> 00:26:47,599 time during the meeting, say, you know, fifteen twenty people there and 326 00:26:47,599 --> 00:26:49,079 you go around the room, tell us who you are and what you do. 327 00:26:49,559 --> 00:26:53,279 There's always that and I just think everybody does the same thing. You 328 00:26:53,319 --> 00:26:57,000 know. I work with organizations who do this, and it's just standard. 329 00:26:57,240 --> 00:27:00,880 So I'm like, I just don't. I never operate that way. So 330 00:27:00,319 --> 00:27:03,240 one time I was at a meeting and the person on one side of me 331 00:27:03,359 --> 00:27:07,759 was a massage therapist and the person on the other side of me coincidentally was 332 00:27:07,799 --> 00:27:12,279 a physical therapist, and I just thought that was interesting and so when it 333 00:27:12,319 --> 00:27:18,880 got to me, I said, ironically, I'm sitting in between a massage 334 00:27:18,920 --> 00:27:26,279 therapist and a physical therapist. I am so relaxed, and I literally slid 335 00:27:26,359 --> 00:27:30,480 out of my chair into the floor, just like that. And it's the 336 00:27:30,599 --> 00:27:36,079 silliest sort of visual thing. And all of a sudden, everybody's just like, 337 00:27:36,240 --> 00:27:40,799 what is this guy doing? And I had probably six or eight people 338 00:27:41,480 --> 00:27:45,400 standing in line to talk to me after the meeting, and so you know, 339 00:27:45,599 --> 00:27:49,359 to me, that's my little research project. It works. It worked. 340 00:27:49,400 --> 00:27:53,480 Yeah, it was silly, but I got people's attention, and you 341 00:27:53,559 --> 00:27:56,920 know that led to potential. Say, if I'm in a business, potential 342 00:27:56,960 --> 00:28:03,240 business for me, it's true. And if you ever get a chance to 343 00:28:03,279 --> 00:28:07,720 go to a near death conference, I have to tell you, these are 344 00:28:07,799 --> 00:28:15,480 folks that are just filled with joy and they just they have learned how to 345 00:28:15,559 --> 00:28:21,200 be present, and you know they already know what's going to happen on the 346 00:28:21,200 --> 00:28:25,759 other side because they've been there and they come back and you know it's a 347 00:28:25,799 --> 00:28:30,200 really good plan. Then we leave our physical body, so you know, 348 00:28:30,480 --> 00:28:37,359 let's enjoy this time we have right now, which speaks to your mindfulness thing 349 00:28:37,440 --> 00:28:45,200 you were just talking about. So talk a little bit about maybe your practice 350 00:28:45,359 --> 00:28:51,119 or how you help people do that kind of mindful work. Mindfulness work. 351 00:28:51,559 --> 00:28:53,680 Yeah, so this is a relatively new thing for me. And when I 352 00:28:53,680 --> 00:28:57,920 say relatively new, it's probably only been about fifteen years that I've really become 353 00:28:59,799 --> 00:29:04,839 more. We're aware of mindfulness in and of itself. And I told somebody, 354 00:29:04,839 --> 00:29:07,279 I said, I wish this was something I was taught when I was 355 00:29:07,319 --> 00:29:14,440 in first grade, Oh, because it just it would serve our lives so 356 00:29:14,519 --> 00:29:18,000 much better. Now that being said, When I went through social work school, 357 00:29:18,160 --> 00:29:23,160 one of the things we are taught is awareness. We are taught how 358 00:29:23,200 --> 00:29:26,480 to be aware of process, like if you're in a group therapy setting, 359 00:29:26,480 --> 00:29:30,240 the process of not only what the conversation is, but what's going on under 360 00:29:30,279 --> 00:29:36,440 the surface there. Awareness of where someone is coming from, what their background 361 00:29:36,480 --> 00:29:38,839 might be, what their personality might be. And so I would call that 362 00:29:38,920 --> 00:29:45,960 paying attention. And as somebody who you know calls themselves a humorist, I 363 00:29:47,039 --> 00:29:51,279 have always been paying attention my whole life. That's where humor is. It's 364 00:29:51,319 --> 00:29:53,720 out there in the world, it's everywhere, and I've always been paying attention. 365 00:29:55,160 --> 00:29:57,599 So I think there was part of me that was already doing this, 366 00:29:57,799 --> 00:30:04,400 and the mindfulness literature and study that I've done just reinforced it. But the 367 00:30:04,480 --> 00:30:10,119 way that I make the link between humor is I show people how being mindful 368 00:30:10,119 --> 00:30:12,640 and aware will lead you to more humor. You will see more humor in 369 00:30:12,640 --> 00:30:18,279 the world. But I think as an awareness, my practice, if you 370 00:30:18,319 --> 00:30:22,160 want to call it, that, is just that I am constantly aware. 371 00:30:22,359 --> 00:30:26,559 I'm like, this morning, I was on a walk and I'm just aware 372 00:30:26,680 --> 00:30:30,119 of every aspect of the walk. And so I'm trying to practice it in 373 00:30:30,359 --> 00:30:37,200 every in every part of my daily existence. I'm not as good at the 374 00:30:37,240 --> 00:30:41,279 meditation and some of the things to reinforce that, but I think I'm pretty 375 00:30:41,279 --> 00:30:47,119 good at it from just a daily practice of awareness perspective. Yeah, I'm 376 00:30:47,119 --> 00:30:53,799 thinking of about twenty years ago, I made a a shift in my life 377 00:30:55,440 --> 00:30:59,799 that it was about being well. Techer Totle aids, be here now, 378 00:31:00,319 --> 00:31:04,119 right, you know, being present is all you can and then when you 379 00:31:04,160 --> 00:31:08,400 catch yourself flipping off into the future or flipping into the past, just go 380 00:31:10,000 --> 00:31:15,480 cancel that. Yeah, yeah, be here now. What's going on now? 381 00:31:15,119 --> 00:31:22,319 Right? And man, that's a that's a tough practice. It's just 382 00:31:22,200 --> 00:31:27,799 I mean it becomes easier as you put yourself as a habit. But wow, 383 00:31:29,640 --> 00:31:33,720 you know, we're kind of we're kind of wired to to flip into 384 00:31:33,799 --> 00:31:37,279 the future. Right, what's next? It's what's going to happen next? 385 00:31:37,319 --> 00:31:38,640 What do I have to prepare for? What I have to worry about? 386 00:31:38,680 --> 00:31:41,680 I mean, my wife and I talk about this all the time because she 387 00:31:42,000 --> 00:31:47,799 kind of genetically is a warrior, and I think her mother was kind of 388 00:31:47,799 --> 00:31:52,839 like that or is still like that, and I was always one of those 389 00:31:52,839 --> 00:31:57,039 people. It'll work out fine unless something tells me otherwise. It doesn't mean 390 00:31:57,079 --> 00:32:01,279 I don't worry about things, but I'm not just naturally worrying about everything. 391 00:32:01,640 --> 00:32:07,000 Um, they're very specific areas that I worry about. UM, But I 392 00:32:07,039 --> 00:32:09,880 don't like if my kids drive home, I don't worry that they got home 393 00:32:09,920 --> 00:32:13,559 safely, because I figure if they did, now find out about it. 394 00:32:13,599 --> 00:32:15,440 And that's not to say I don't care about them, or that I would. 395 00:32:15,440 --> 00:32:20,480 I would be concerned about them, but but I don't assume that something's 396 00:32:20,480 --> 00:32:23,200 going to happen. And there's also not much you can do about it, 397 00:32:23,400 --> 00:32:34,440 right exactly exactly? Yeah, So how does that, um tell me a 398 00:32:34,480 --> 00:32:42,200 story about you know, somebody who is trying to put some humor into their 399 00:32:42,240 --> 00:32:45,319 management life or for instance, or you know how to run an organization, 400 00:32:45,559 --> 00:32:52,039 just like we're way too serious around here. Yeah, I think. I 401 00:32:52,079 --> 00:32:57,920 think from a leadership and management perspective, one of the greatest forms of humor 402 00:32:58,000 --> 00:33:04,720 that can be used in that specific in that instance or that style is self 403 00:33:04,839 --> 00:33:10,279 deprecating. Is someone who's so comfortable in their abilities that they can make fun 404 00:33:10,279 --> 00:33:19,160 of themselves. This ties into mindfulness too, because you're talking about the idea 405 00:33:19,200 --> 00:33:23,960 that someone's not worried about how they appear. They're comfortable in their skin. 406 00:33:24,480 --> 00:33:28,640 And if you're comfortable in your skin, you can make fun of yourself. 407 00:33:29,079 --> 00:33:30,720 And when you do that, I think what happens is it makes you more 408 00:33:30,759 --> 00:33:37,119 approachable, It makes you more endearing to the people. I used to say 409 00:33:37,200 --> 00:33:42,039 a leader needs to be worth following to be a leader, and if you're 410 00:33:42,119 --> 00:33:45,160 so closed off or so guarded or not connected to people, they're not gonna 411 00:33:45,160 --> 00:33:47,920 want to follow you. And one specific example, I remember working with the 412 00:33:49,000 --> 00:33:54,079 CEO one time who wanted some help on his presentation skills, and he was 413 00:33:54,119 --> 00:34:00,880 in a hospice environment and he was a business guy. He came into that 414 00:34:00,079 --> 00:34:05,759 role with a business background, even though it was a nonprofit healthcare environment. 415 00:34:06,359 --> 00:34:09,039 He used to actually say, he used to say, we're a nonprofit organization. 416 00:34:09,079 --> 00:34:13,119 We didn't start out that way, just ended up that way. So 417 00:34:14,119 --> 00:34:16,119 it's always thought that was funny. But but he would always do a lot 418 00:34:16,119 --> 00:34:21,920 of numbers in his presentation. Would he would here's how many patients we have, 419 00:34:22,079 --> 00:34:24,960 here's the demographics, Here's where they live, here's the you know, 420 00:34:25,039 --> 00:34:29,880 here's the kind of coverage we have Medicare and all the And I said to 421 00:34:29,960 --> 00:34:31,679 him, I said, think about who your audience is. You're talking to 422 00:34:31,800 --> 00:34:37,039 new employees, and you're talking to employees, and they're caregivers. They don't 423 00:34:37,079 --> 00:34:40,679 care about the numbers. Now, granted, if you need them to know 424 00:34:40,760 --> 00:34:44,559 this information, we can provide it in some other format, but you don't 425 00:34:44,559 --> 00:34:49,159 need to do it during the presentation. He was doing an orientation program every 426 00:34:49,199 --> 00:34:52,760 month for new employees. I said, why don't you tell a story about 427 00:34:52,760 --> 00:34:57,440 the first time he went to see a hospice patient. And the next time 428 00:34:57,480 --> 00:35:00,559 he did his presentation, he told the story about going to visit his first 429 00:35:00,599 --> 00:35:06,280 hospice patient and just the impact the experience had on him and so all of 430 00:35:06,320 --> 00:35:09,599 a sudden, this guy almost stepped down, if you will, from his 431 00:35:09,760 --> 00:35:15,159 CEO role and became a human being. And you could see people sitting there 432 00:35:15,599 --> 00:35:20,719 and they leaned up and they connected with him, and he used a little 433 00:35:20,719 --> 00:35:22,920 bit of humor in the story, so it made it even better. And 434 00:35:22,960 --> 00:35:27,079 then afterwards, all these people wanted to come up and shake his hand and 435 00:35:27,119 --> 00:35:30,000 talk to him. After I told him, I said, if you could 436 00:35:30,039 --> 00:35:34,039 just see the difference in that experience and previously when you wanted to talk about 437 00:35:34,039 --> 00:35:38,119 graphs and charts, you just you know, it made him more human. 438 00:35:38,199 --> 00:35:42,559 And that's what I think humor does. It makes us more human, and 439 00:35:42,679 --> 00:35:46,480 people appreciate that. Now we still have to be good at what we do. 440 00:35:46,679 --> 00:35:53,480 Oh yeah, it's always that. That just reminds me exactly. I 441 00:35:53,599 --> 00:36:00,480 used to run a chain of department and specialty stores and one day I when 442 00:36:00,480 --> 00:36:06,039 I took over the job, I went to a new employee orientation. Yeah, 443 00:36:06,079 --> 00:36:08,760 and it was, you know, here's how you use the cash register, 444 00:36:08,880 --> 00:36:12,840 and here's how you do a return, and here's how you check in 445 00:36:12,960 --> 00:36:19,760 merchandise. And it was like, hey, the poor employees are asleep. 446 00:36:20,199 --> 00:36:27,000 Yeah, and it isn't at all in mission with who we are, right, 447 00:36:27,760 --> 00:36:31,880 So I made it a rule that for the first two weeks they couldn't 448 00:36:31,920 --> 00:36:37,760 touch a piece of paper, they couldn't touch a cash register. All they 449 00:36:37,800 --> 00:36:43,360 had to do was go out there and figure out what our customers wanted and 450 00:36:43,639 --> 00:36:47,679 just make friends with our customers, right right, What a difference? Yeah, 451 00:36:47,760 --> 00:36:52,360 yeah, yeah, it's well, it's it's you know, it's also 452 00:36:52,400 --> 00:36:57,800 you're getting at what's the big picture here? The details are important to learn, 453 00:36:57,840 --> 00:37:00,400 but if you don't understand the big picture. When I was a manager, 454 00:37:00,440 --> 00:37:02,559 I used to have all my employees go to every department in the organization 455 00:37:02,639 --> 00:37:07,679 to learn what every other department did. And my reasoning for that was whoever, 456 00:37:07,920 --> 00:37:12,119 who knows. One day you get a phone message that was like routed 457 00:37:12,159 --> 00:37:15,119 to the wrong place, and you have to direct it back to where it 458 00:37:15,159 --> 00:37:19,000 needs to go. Hey, you know where it should go. But be 459 00:37:19,639 --> 00:37:23,400 you understand where you fit in this bigger, bigger organization and how it all 460 00:37:23,440 --> 00:37:29,960 makes sense. Oh and how many times has that happened to you? You 461 00:37:30,000 --> 00:37:35,960 get off on some extension and somebody, oh, they sent you to the 462 00:37:36,000 --> 00:37:39,320 wrong place. But it's really you know, Sandra, that you need to 463 00:37:39,360 --> 00:37:44,239 talk to let me hook you up with Sandra because she's awesome at solving your 464 00:37:44,280 --> 00:37:49,320 problem. Right. Oh, okay, that puts me in a good frame 465 00:37:49,400 --> 00:38:00,800 of mind, you knowing that there's a Sandra in my life exactly. Oh, 466 00:38:00,960 --> 00:38:07,840 I'm thinking of I'm back to the the folks who you have met at 467 00:38:07,920 --> 00:38:15,000 hospice conferences and and and you know, the kinds of people that show up 468 00:38:15,039 --> 00:38:22,599 for this kind of work. You know, and clearly you stayed in that 469 00:38:22,760 --> 00:38:29,480 arena. You do presentations and speeches for other people too, but you know 470 00:38:29,559 --> 00:38:35,559 you're kind of known for this this humor and hospice thing. What keeps bringing 471 00:38:35,559 --> 00:38:39,239 you back? Well, I think if you ask any person that worked in 472 00:38:39,320 --> 00:38:43,880 hospice, the first thing they would say was that it was a great privilege 473 00:38:43,920 --> 00:38:47,760 to be able to do that work. The people that don't do that work, 474 00:38:47,800 --> 00:38:52,159 I think it's depressing and think it's really heavy. Thinks think it would 475 00:38:52,199 --> 00:38:55,599 burn you out very quickly. But this sounds odd, But it was the 476 00:38:55,599 --> 00:39:00,960 most fun job I ever had because the people that did it were they understood 477 00:39:01,000 --> 00:39:07,079 the importance of the balance, and I believe they saw every single day the 478 00:39:07,199 --> 00:39:12,679 more tragic side of life, so they really embraced and understood the need for 479 00:39:12,880 --> 00:39:15,039 the other side of life, the joy and the richness of life. So 480 00:39:15,079 --> 00:39:19,400 I think they pursued it, and I think we all got that on some 481 00:39:19,519 --> 00:39:23,639 level. So to be immersed with those people and around those people, to 482 00:39:23,760 --> 00:39:28,360 me is like nothing else. I mean, I just when I'm speaking at 483 00:39:28,400 --> 00:39:32,039 a hospice conference or at an individual hospice organization, I just I feel like 484 00:39:32,039 --> 00:39:36,280 I'm home with family because I get it. I know that I know what 485 00:39:36,360 --> 00:39:37,760 goes on in their mind, I know how they see the world. I 486 00:39:37,840 --> 00:39:44,159 understand the challenges of the work. But I think most of those folks would 487 00:39:44,159 --> 00:39:49,599 tell you that we really benefited way more than our patients did just by being 488 00:39:49,599 --> 00:39:55,440 in that environment. How interesting. So I was looking at the list of 489 00:39:55,519 --> 00:40:00,000 books that you have written, and one of them had a title that I 490 00:40:00,079 --> 00:40:06,480 just can't figure out. It is my kneecap seemed too loose. I knew 491 00:40:06,519 --> 00:40:12,239 that would be it. I just started to chuckle right away. So what 492 00:40:12,559 --> 00:40:15,320 is that all about? Yeah? So, so checking them right now? 493 00:40:15,440 --> 00:40:19,639 You know, I know I seem to be so Yeah. So if you 494 00:40:19,719 --> 00:40:23,119 straighten your knee leg out, your kneecap is loose, and which always seemed 495 00:40:23,119 --> 00:40:27,360 odd to me, that it stays there the whole your whole life and doesn't 496 00:40:27,360 --> 00:40:31,679 really go anywhere. But so my first book was on seeing the Humor in 497 00:40:32,039 --> 00:40:36,559 life. And then I felt like I needed to do something else for my 498 00:40:36,599 --> 00:40:39,119 second book, and I just I didn't have like a book in me, 499 00:40:39,320 --> 00:40:42,840 you know, I just didn't. I couldn't think of what it would be. 500 00:40:43,519 --> 00:40:45,360 So I wrote that I started. It was right around the time that 501 00:40:45,480 --> 00:40:51,199 Facebook was getting very, very popular, and I was trying to write something 502 00:40:51,320 --> 00:40:55,960 funny on Facebook every day, just some random thought, just weird thought. 503 00:40:57,159 --> 00:41:00,599 And one day I was sitting there and I'm moves my kneecap back and forth, 504 00:41:00,639 --> 00:41:02,440 and I thought, well, that's weird. So I just wrote, 505 00:41:02,440 --> 00:41:07,159 my kneecap seems too loose. And then the next day, you know, 506 00:41:07,280 --> 00:41:14,000 I wrote something like, um, you know, if if your belly button 507 00:41:14,199 --> 00:41:17,079 continues to get if you wore the same sweater for your whole life, would 508 00:41:17,360 --> 00:41:22,119 your belly button eventually eat the sweater? The whole sweater, you know, 509 00:41:22,199 --> 00:41:28,400 like you know, these random things like what like like uh anyway, like 510 00:41:28,400 --> 00:41:32,119 like um, why do we call it a watch rather than an arm clock? 511 00:41:36,239 --> 00:41:39,000 Just so, so then I got this idea. I'm gonna write one 512 00:41:39,159 --> 00:41:44,239 every day for a year. Now. Obviously I would sit down sometimes and 513 00:41:44,280 --> 00:41:45,519 write three or four at a time. But um, so that was the 514 00:41:45,519 --> 00:41:50,360 book. It was just it was called three hundred and sixty five Random Thoughts 515 00:41:51,159 --> 00:41:57,320 to inspire deeply shallow thinking, and it was just goofing. Now here's the 516 00:41:57,360 --> 00:42:00,159 best part of this whole thing. Um. I got a call one day 517 00:42:00,239 --> 00:42:06,719 from the Mayo Clinic and they ordered twenty copies of that book because they thought 518 00:42:06,719 --> 00:42:13,400 it was a medical book. Well it is. We know the benefits of 519 00:42:13,519 --> 00:42:16,039 humor, we covered that are reading. Unfortunately, a month later they called 520 00:42:16,039 --> 00:42:19,599 back and said, can we return this? This isn't what we thought. 521 00:42:22,719 --> 00:42:25,000 But yeah, so yeah, that was just that was just a goofy book. 522 00:42:25,039 --> 00:42:29,199 But I enjoyed writing it and I still will post things on Twitter or 523 00:42:29,199 --> 00:42:31,360 Facebook that are from that book just because I think they make me laugh. 524 00:42:31,400 --> 00:42:37,840 So I love it. And we are bumping up against our time. So 525 00:42:38,800 --> 00:42:45,519 what haven't I asked you that you would like to kind of wrap this conversation 526 00:42:45,639 --> 00:42:50,320 up with Gosh, that's a really good question, I guess since were just 527 00:42:50,360 --> 00:42:52,400 talking about books, you know, we can talk about the book. Do 528 00:42:52,440 --> 00:42:57,760 it well? Make it fun that's really my primary book. But you know 529 00:42:57,760 --> 00:43:00,320 when we talked about humor when we hit the the two thousands, like two 530 00:43:00,360 --> 00:43:05,360 thousand and eight seven, when the economy tanked, what I found in my 531 00:43:05,400 --> 00:43:08,400 speaking business was people really wanted humor, but they didn't have the funds to 532 00:43:08,440 --> 00:43:14,880 pay for it because everybody was hurting financially. And I started thinking about what 533 00:43:14,920 --> 00:43:19,440 I had been doing for years and just turned my topic into that. I 534 00:43:19,440 --> 00:43:22,159 had been talking to people years about how humor in the workplace is valuable, 535 00:43:22,159 --> 00:43:25,280 but you can't use humor if you're not good at your job. We've all 536 00:43:25,360 --> 00:43:29,559 had those people in the work environments who are not good at what they do, 537 00:43:29,920 --> 00:43:31,760 and then when they try to be funny, everybody just rolls their eyes. 538 00:43:31,800 --> 00:43:36,239 They're not taken seriously, they're not respected. So I used to tell 539 00:43:36,320 --> 00:43:37,400 people, I said, first and foremost, you've got to be good at 540 00:43:37,400 --> 00:43:42,159 your job, then you can be fun and people will like that. If 541 00:43:42,159 --> 00:43:44,639 you're good at what you do, people respect you, and if you're fun, 542 00:43:44,719 --> 00:43:49,119 people want to be around you. So that gave birth to the concept 543 00:43:49,159 --> 00:43:52,519 of do it well, make it fun, and it took my material and 544 00:43:52,679 --> 00:43:58,880 morphed it into this under this umbrella of be good at what you do first 545 00:43:59,119 --> 00:44:02,400 and then make there an even fun and it was a concept that really resonated 546 00:44:02,440 --> 00:44:07,360 with people and it totally changed my career, changed my life in the sense 547 00:44:07,440 --> 00:44:12,079 that for the first time, I felt like I stumbled on something that people 548 00:44:12,199 --> 00:44:16,639 got and it worked for them and they appreciated it. And I'm not kidding 549 00:44:16,639 --> 00:44:20,920 anybody, I don't have it. Nobody's ever said I've had too much deep 550 00:44:21,000 --> 00:44:24,000 content. I don't. You know. There's a lot of what I do 551 00:44:24,480 --> 00:44:30,480 is entertainment, but the message is buried in there, so metaphorically, hopefully 552 00:44:30,480 --> 00:44:34,280 I'm sinking this stuff in to people's brains in a different way, but it's 553 00:44:34,320 --> 00:44:37,000 intended to be entertaining. But that concept, I think is I just want 554 00:44:37,039 --> 00:44:43,119 to explain that because I think it's It really came from my hospice experience, 555 00:44:43,440 --> 00:44:46,159 was that I realized that we have a journey in front of us, and 556 00:44:46,199 --> 00:44:51,519 we have to orchestrate how we manage that journey. Nobody's going to do it 557 00:44:51,559 --> 00:44:53,960 for us, and if we can do it in a way that we're proud 558 00:44:54,039 --> 00:44:58,280 of what we did and we succeed at what we do because we try to 559 00:44:58,280 --> 00:45:00,599 be good at it. But it was fun too. I mean, I 560 00:45:00,800 --> 00:45:04,800 don't think you can ask for anything more. I'll go to that church. 561 00:45:04,840 --> 00:45:08,599 Jamn brother. Yeah yeah. So how do people get a hold of you, 562 00:45:08,719 --> 00:45:13,599 Ron, Well, it's very simple. Ron Culberson dot COM's the website 563 00:45:13,760 --> 00:45:15,159 and there's a lot of information on there. I will say, there's a 564 00:45:15,159 --> 00:45:19,719 lot of free stuff where you know, the books are on there, but 565 00:45:19,760 --> 00:45:24,760 there's articles, there's blog there are videos, and then I have a bibliography 566 00:45:24,800 --> 00:45:29,039 with a lot of the books that had an impact on me. And so 567 00:45:29,239 --> 00:45:30,480 make it easy on people. They can just click it and it goes right 568 00:45:30,519 --> 00:45:34,079 to Amazon. I don't get I don't get a cut for that, but 569 00:45:34,119 --> 00:45:37,440 it just makes it easy. So if people want to read more about some 570 00:45:37,480 --> 00:45:44,440 of the topics that have influenced men, they're there. Awesome, thank you. 571 00:45:44,599 --> 00:45:50,440 What a wonderful way to spend an afternoon having humor and hospice and chatting 572 00:45:50,440 --> 00:45:52,320 with you. This has been great, Ryan, Thanks well, thank you, 573 00:45:52,320 --> 00:45:58,000 Scott. I really appreciate being included and stick around everybody because I've got 574 00:45:58,039 --> 00:46:00,960 a couple of ideas that I'd like to explore a review. So with that 575 00:46:01,000 --> 00:46:15,880 note, Ron, see you later, by thy care well. This interview 576 00:46:15,920 --> 00:46:22,079 should lighten your spirits. I found it to be filled with nuggets of wisdom. 577 00:46:22,119 --> 00:46:24,119 Just to be clear, these are my viewpoints, but that's why you 578 00:46:24,199 --> 00:46:30,039 watch the Afterlife files to gain perspective by using more than one lens which to 579 00:46:30,199 --> 00:46:37,920 view this rich information. Ron started this interview with honesty. He was a 580 00:46:38,000 --> 00:46:43,000 twenty five year old young man that, as a result of a tragic death 581 00:46:43,000 --> 00:46:47,679 of his nephew, was forced to deal with the reality of death and afterwards 582 00:46:47,960 --> 00:46:52,480 what it meant to live life fully. It was that way for me too, 583 00:46:53,280 --> 00:46:58,079 when I was twenty seven. It took the act of losing two people 584 00:46:58,159 --> 00:47:01,559 that I loved in a car accident to really look at what it meant to 585 00:47:01,599 --> 00:47:09,639 be alive. Second, I also appreciate his honesty about what people fear the 586 00:47:09,719 --> 00:47:15,320 process of dying rather than death itself. I think that insight can be really 587 00:47:15,360 --> 00:47:21,239 helpful when talking about death with a friend or a loved one. Third, 588 00:47:21,920 --> 00:47:27,000 a key insight for me was how humor works by taking you down one path 589 00:47:27,079 --> 00:47:34,199 and an arc abruptly changing direction, forcing you to see the original premise differently. 590 00:47:35,159 --> 00:47:42,920 Ron called that changing perspective near death experiences are like that. We think 591 00:47:42,960 --> 00:47:46,599 we have a handle on how the world works. Then in an instant we 592 00:47:46,719 --> 00:47:53,079 discover our truths just don't hold up. We learn through experiencing the non physical 593 00:47:53,079 --> 00:48:00,519 world that the reality of a universe based on unity changes everything. The concept 594 00:48:00,760 --> 00:48:08,000 that consciousness is foundational and comes before matter rocks the world of many of an 595 00:48:08,079 --> 00:48:15,000 endy ear fourth, when we know that we all win, meaning that we 596 00:48:15,079 --> 00:48:21,199 are all unconditionally love, no matter what mistakes we've made in our physical life, 597 00:48:22,239 --> 00:48:27,760 gives us the grace to not take ourselves too seriously. It's just the 598 00:48:27,840 --> 00:48:32,280 kind of attitude that is best in a leadership position, and that explains how 599 00:48:32,320 --> 00:48:40,159 self deprecating humor can be so effective. Lastly, I love how he emphasizes 600 00:48:40,199 --> 00:48:47,639 how paying attention being here now is the way to appreciate life and find humor 601 00:48:47,679 --> 00:48:53,320 in it. Many a near death experiencer has come back from their experience with 602 00:48:53,400 --> 00:49:00,960 a commitment to paying attention to every precious moment in physical life that it has 603 00:49:00,039 --> 00:49:05,840 to give us not only for the experience, but also as a vehicle for 604 00:49:06,000 --> 00:49:12,280 listening to Spirit as it contacts us through those coincidences that come our way. 605 00:49:12,760 --> 00:49:16,480 I do hope that videos such as this give you some insight on what near 606 00:49:16,559 --> 00:49:22,360 death and shared death experiencers discover about the afterlife, the nature of consciousness, 607 00:49:22,360 --> 00:49:28,039 and how to live your life more fully. If you've not already hit that 608 00:49:28,119 --> 00:49:34,400 subscribe button, I would encourage you to do so. If you're watching on 609 00:49:34,519 --> 00:49:39,360 YouTube, please like, subscribe and comment. You can find The Afterlife Files 610 00:49:39,400 --> 00:49:44,960 on all podcasts, streaming apps, Apple, Google, Spotify, Audible a 611 00:49:45,039 --> 00:49:49,840 lot of them. Follow us on Facebook, Instagram, and TikTok, or 612 00:49:50,239 --> 00:49:54,119 pay us a visit at Near Death Meditations dot com. I'll repeat that Near 613 00:49:54,239 --> 00:50:00,639 Death Meditations dot com Buy now, see next time, and thank you for 614 00:50:00,760 --> 00:50:04,280 joining us at the Afterlife Files