1 00:00:26,760 --> 00:00:31,719 Hello, and welcome to the show on Martin willis your host. And unfortunately, 2 00:00:32,240 --> 00:00:35,359 I've just got a note from Alejandro just to just I don't know, 3 00:00:35,399 --> 00:00:39,640 maybe twenty minutes ago. He says, dude, I have nothing to say, 4 00:00:40,679 --> 00:00:43,679 And so I said, he was on a cruise last week. He 5 00:00:43,719 --> 00:00:47,920 says he has absolutely no idea if a UFO even landed on the White House 6 00:00:48,000 --> 00:00:51,280 lan nothing. He has no idea. So he said, I don't really 7 00:00:51,280 --> 00:00:54,880 have anything to talk about. And so I said, well, why don't 8 00:00:54,880 --> 00:00:57,000 you skip it? I said, I think I'm gonna be able to get 9 00:00:57,000 --> 00:01:00,320 this guy that I have on the show. I think I'm going to be 10 00:01:00,320 --> 00:01:03,480 able to get him to talk a little bit. And so our guest is 11 00:01:03,640 --> 00:01:07,560 Derek Gilbert and he's written a very interesting book. It's actually a really good 12 00:01:07,599 --> 00:01:12,040 read and a lot of really good points. I may have some objections to 13 00:01:12,079 --> 00:01:17,120 some of the points, but that's what should make it a decent interview. 14 00:01:17,359 --> 00:01:22,480 I also want to say on April we have a lot of great guests coming 15 00:01:22,560 --> 00:01:26,079 up. Next week. It's going to be Greg Bishop, a great guy. 16 00:01:26,000 --> 00:01:32,280 So but on April fourth, we have Robert Schroeder. Now he was 17 00:01:32,359 --> 00:01:38,079 on a long, long time ago and he this weekend on March seventeenth, 18 00:01:38,079 --> 00:01:42,480 Saturday, at two o'clock, he's going to be at the Morse Library and 19 00:01:42,640 --> 00:01:48,920 Natick, Massachusetts. If anyone lives in that area, he's great and you 20 00:01:48,959 --> 00:01:53,040 will see that on April fourth when he's here on the show. So that 21 00:01:53,159 --> 00:01:57,799 is again, that's at the Morse Library and Natick, Massachusetts this Saturday at 22 00:01:57,799 --> 00:02:04,959 two o'clock. And um So, without further ado, I would like to 23 00:02:04,959 --> 00:02:07,240 bring our guest on and I have a whole bunch of questions for him. 24 00:02:07,280 --> 00:02:13,039 We're gonna be talking about his book, which is The Day the Earth Stands 25 00:02:13,080 --> 00:02:17,599 still a little play on words there unmasking the old gods behind ets UFOs and 26 00:02:17,639 --> 00:02:22,960 the official Disclosure movement. Welcome to the show. It's my honor. Thanks 27 00:02:22,960 --> 00:02:25,479 for having me on. Yes, now you know we've had I'm a I'm 28 00:02:25,479 --> 00:02:29,199 in a hotel room. At first, I have to explain this. We're 29 00:02:29,240 --> 00:02:31,759 having a little bit of internet issues, but not as bad as Josh. 30 00:02:31,800 --> 00:02:35,919 Go ahead and tell what happened to your h It was gonna be a co 31 00:02:36,120 --> 00:02:39,759 guest this evening right Well, Josh and I are co workers at SkyWatch TV, 32 00:02:39,919 --> 00:02:46,879 which is a Christian television production company. We produce a number of programmers 33 00:02:46,879 --> 00:02:52,479 there. The flagship program is syndicated. The rest are sent are sent out 34 00:02:52,479 --> 00:03:00,719 through YouTube vivieo. But we noticed this afternoon as we were getting ready to 35 00:03:00,159 --> 00:03:02,719 upload the last of the programs we needed to send out to our networks today 36 00:03:02,719 --> 00:03:07,360 that our internet died and we've had some issues. We're located in a small 37 00:03:07,400 --> 00:03:09,639 town in the Missouri Ozarks. You know. Our town in which we're based 38 00:03:09,719 --> 00:03:15,879 is about fourteen hundred people. The county in which we live as twenty twenty 39 00:03:15,319 --> 00:03:20,080 five thousand people, who maybe county seats four hundred and forty people. So 40 00:03:20,599 --> 00:03:23,159 we don't expect great internet, but we do pay a premium to try to 41 00:03:23,159 --> 00:03:28,560 get decent enough internet that we can send full HD video files back and forth. 42 00:03:29,360 --> 00:03:31,120 Nothing happened after about two o'clock this afternoon, But it turns out we're 43 00:03:31,120 --> 00:03:37,479 not alone. The entire state of Missouri. Practically Mediacom had somebody slice through 44 00:03:37,879 --> 00:03:43,520 two Well it's not somebody, somebody's Two separate fiber optic cables were cut today 45 00:03:44,039 --> 00:03:46,800 in different parts of the state. The main cable up in the northwest part 46 00:03:46,800 --> 00:03:50,680 of the state, and it's according to local news here, the other in 47 00:03:50,719 --> 00:03:52,960 the central part of the state, near the town of Cuba, which was 48 00:03:52,960 --> 00:03:58,879 the backup line. So all media, cable and internet and phone customers in 49 00:03:58,879 --> 00:04:00,680 Missouri from Saint Louis to the city are waiting for them to get the one 50 00:04:00,759 --> 00:04:04,199 or both of those lines stitched back together. And of course Josh is one 51 00:04:04,240 --> 00:04:09,360 of those customers. So wow, So was it the Russians? Yeah? 52 00:04:09,479 --> 00:04:12,560 Probably, yeah, yeah, probably, I think so. Yeah, there 53 00:04:12,639 --> 00:04:14,719 is a lot going on. Well at least it's not you know, some 54 00:04:14,840 --> 00:04:19,800 nerve agent. Yeah. Yeah. Um so the book, as I said, 55 00:04:19,800 --> 00:04:24,199 it was an interesting read and um so we got we got a long 56 00:04:24,240 --> 00:04:27,720 time to kill here. But I want to ask you, first of all, 57 00:04:28,160 --> 00:04:30,600 what was the h what was the source of you coming up with this 58 00:04:31,279 --> 00:04:35,879 book? What what what started your path on it? Well, Josh and 59 00:04:35,920 --> 00:04:40,879 I both are you know, geeks. From from way back. I was 60 00:04:40,920 --> 00:04:45,040 a big, big, and still a big science fiction fan. Um loved 61 00:04:45,120 --> 00:04:47,720 hard science fiction growing up. Read everything I can get my hands on by 62 00:04:47,879 --> 00:04:53,600 Larry Niven, especially Jerry Purnell, which just recently passed away sadly, Um, 63 00:04:53,680 --> 00:04:58,759 Isaac Asimov, Rubbert Heindline, So authors like that were were my bread 64 00:04:58,759 --> 00:05:04,399 and butter. High school, Josh simpler Path, you know, always fascinated 65 00:05:04,399 --> 00:05:09,399 with the idea that there might be life out there in outer space. Now 66 00:05:09,600 --> 00:05:12,319 fast forward a few years, we find ourselves here in this place, both 67 00:05:12,319 --> 00:05:15,879 of us coming at this from an unashamedly and openly Christian point of view, 68 00:05:15,920 --> 00:05:19,319 but I think with a different perspective than a lot of Christians have on the 69 00:05:19,439 --> 00:05:28,319 UFO phenomenon. A lot of the books that have been written about UFOs by 70 00:05:28,439 --> 00:05:35,680 Christians tend to just dismiss the whole thing as either non existent or as the 71 00:05:35,959 --> 00:05:40,439 return of the Nephelem. It's all demonic, in other words, and we 72 00:05:40,680 --> 00:05:45,199 kind of fall somewhere in the middle. We don't deny that something is going 73 00:05:45,240 --> 00:05:48,199 on, but we think the evidence suggests that it's something different than what most 74 00:05:48,199 --> 00:05:55,759 people think it is. We also wanted to address a question that I think 75 00:05:55,800 --> 00:06:02,079 a lot of Christians make Christians nervous about the phenomenon. If a UFO were 76 00:06:02,079 --> 00:06:08,399 to land on the White House lawn, an actual, actual extraterrestrial spacecraft, 77 00:06:09,319 --> 00:06:13,319 a lot of Christians, I think would find their faith really shaken. And 78 00:06:13,560 --> 00:06:17,519 we address that in the book because we believe that a proper understanding of Christian 79 00:06:17,560 --> 00:06:24,399 theology means we don't need to worry about Zeta Riticulus landing on the White House 80 00:06:24,439 --> 00:06:31,079 Law and somehow debunking the Bible. Okay, So I was thinking about asking 81 00:06:31,120 --> 00:06:39,560 you some questions along the line of, you know, I understand that there 82 00:06:39,680 --> 00:06:45,439 is a really good point to be make made about that. It's sort of 83 00:06:45,480 --> 00:06:50,639 like a religion, you know, UFOs can be and I have actually seen 84 00:06:50,680 --> 00:06:56,279 and I do agree with a number of things in your book, especially in 85 00:06:57,439 --> 00:07:00,879 every time I dropped this name name I get, I get some hate mail, 86 00:07:01,360 --> 00:07:04,959 but you know, I agree with what you said about Stephen Greer and 87 00:07:05,160 --> 00:07:10,519 um, you know a lot of people think the world of him, but 88 00:07:10,720 --> 00:07:14,680 anyone that's anyone that's going to charge someone fifty dollars to take a picture of 89 00:07:14,759 --> 00:07:20,560 him inside of a invisible UFO, I don't. I don't, you know, 90 00:07:20,680 --> 00:07:25,279 I don't buy any I don't buy the stuff that he does. You 91 00:07:25,319 --> 00:07:29,680 know he does. He did in the very beginning, he did something absolutely 92 00:07:29,720 --> 00:07:31,720 wonderful. And then I just think up like in your book, you said 93 00:07:31,720 --> 00:07:34,600 he gave up a half a million dollars a year job, you know, 94 00:07:34,680 --> 00:07:41,480 to do this. So it's a there's not a lot of people though, 95 00:07:41,519 --> 00:07:44,600 and I will will tell you this, and you may not even understand this, 96 00:07:44,600 --> 00:07:47,800 because most people don't, but there's very very few people in the UFO 97 00:07:47,920 --> 00:07:51,800 field you followist whatever you want to call him, that really make any money. 98 00:07:53,879 --> 00:07:56,360 You know, for instance, Travis Walton. You know, I had 99 00:07:56,399 --> 00:07:59,240 a conversation with him once. He says a lot of times, you know 100 00:07:59,279 --> 00:08:01,199 he's retired now a lot of times he'll just pay us on expenses, so 101 00:08:01,720 --> 00:08:03,879 sure, you know, they'll get him the hotel room and that's it. 102 00:08:05,360 --> 00:08:09,000 Well, the interesting thing about that is it seemed to us as we went 103 00:08:09,000 --> 00:08:11,959 down to the Roswell Festival last year, the seventieth anniversary of the famous Roswell 104 00:08:13,000 --> 00:08:16,519 crash, and we saw you know, Lynda Moulton Howe and Stanton Friedman and 105 00:08:16,959 --> 00:08:22,279 you know Nick, Nick Redfern, Greg Bishop got a chance to meet him, 106 00:08:22,720 --> 00:08:26,600 would like to interview him, didn't have the opportunity while I was there. 107 00:08:26,600 --> 00:08:31,600 We were busy working on the project that accompanied the book. But Jack 108 00:08:31,639 --> 00:08:33,480 Brewer too, by the way, who whose work site in the book, 109 00:08:35,080 --> 00:08:39,960 really really found his book. The grays have been framed to be very very 110 00:08:39,960 --> 00:08:43,679 helpful. But it seemed to me that a lot of the speakers who go 111 00:08:43,759 --> 00:08:48,519 to UFO conferences are very much like well, guys like me who go around 112 00:08:48,559 --> 00:08:52,720 and speak at you know, Bible prophecy conferences and theology conferences. You do 113 00:08:52,759 --> 00:08:56,759 it because you love it and because you think you've got something that you hope 114 00:08:56,879 --> 00:09:01,399 is important to say. And that was the sense I got from those guys. 115 00:09:01,440 --> 00:09:03,480 I didn't see any of those guys getting rich. Even the so called 116 00:09:03,559 --> 00:09:07,679 stars in the field like Stanton Friedman and Linda Moulton, howe they were, 117 00:09:07,720 --> 00:09:09,679 they were flying the same flights we were, so you know, they did 118 00:09:09,679 --> 00:09:16,759 not look like they were they're getting high off the hog by pursuing this career. 119 00:09:16,159 --> 00:09:20,600 So and I certainly didn't want to cast any dispersions on the character of 120 00:09:20,639 --> 00:09:26,679 stephen career. Coming back to the question of the UFO phenomenon as a as 121 00:09:26,720 --> 00:09:31,679 an alternate religion, that was really what triggered the idea for the book when 122 00:09:31,679 --> 00:09:37,399 we were looking at research that came out last year that and comparing it with 123 00:09:37,919 --> 00:09:41,320 research and came out last year on what American Christians were they and then compared 124 00:09:41,360 --> 00:09:46,320 that with some surveys that have been done in recent years by National Geographic Channel 125 00:09:46,039 --> 00:09:52,320 on what people believe about the existence of extra terrestrial life. And we found 126 00:09:52,360 --> 00:09:54,440 that in America, and this is according to the twenty twelve survey by National 127 00:09:54,440 --> 00:10:00,600 Geographic Channel when they were launching their UFO program, that they're six percent of 128 00:10:00,639 --> 00:10:07,720 American adults believe that we're being visited by extraterrestrials. About seventy percent believe that 129 00:10:07,759 --> 00:10:11,720 there is evidence that we might be being visited, but thirty six percent are 130 00:10:11,759 --> 00:10:15,519 convinced that we're being visited by extraterrestrials. But now, the Barne Group, 131 00:10:15,720 --> 00:10:20,639 which is a survey group that specializes in taking the theological temperature, if you 132 00:10:20,679 --> 00:10:26,519 will, of Christians, found that in America today only ten percent of American 133 00:10:26,559 --> 00:10:33,039 adults have a biblical worldview. Now about seventy percent of American adults are three 134 00:10:33,120 --> 00:10:37,919 quarters roughly identify as Christians, but most are cultural Christians. When Barnet starts 135 00:10:37,960 --> 00:10:41,879 asking questions, well, do you agree or disagree with this statement, and 136 00:10:41,919 --> 00:10:48,080 then put forth the number of tenets of the Christian faith. For example, 137 00:10:48,120 --> 00:10:50,960 did Jesus live a sinless life? Was he born of virgin? His satan 138 00:10:50,000 --> 00:10:54,519 a literal entity and not just a concept of force. Things that according to 139 00:10:54,559 --> 00:11:01,960 the Bible are Christianity one on one, and they define anyone who accepted six 140 00:11:01,360 --> 00:11:07,799 core beliefs as having a biblical worldview. So out of the seventy five percent 141 00:11:07,840 --> 00:11:11,759 of Americans who say they're Christian, only ten percent have a biblical worldview. 142 00:11:11,799 --> 00:11:16,240 Ten percent of all American adults, but of those who claim to be evangelical 143 00:11:16,320 --> 00:11:20,720 or born again Christians, only seventeen percent have a biblical worldview. So we 144 00:11:22,080 --> 00:11:26,600 concluded from this that there are more people who believe we're being visited by extraterrestrials 145 00:11:26,919 --> 00:11:31,240 than who believe in God as he's defined himself in the Bible. And so 146 00:11:31,759 --> 00:11:35,720 when Christians ask us and this is something, we get some pushback within the 147 00:11:35,759 --> 00:11:37,919 Christian community who say, well, you're really wasting your time. This is 148 00:11:37,919 --> 00:11:41,600 a fringe topic, UFOs extra terrestrials. You should be preaching a gospel. 149 00:11:41,960 --> 00:11:46,399 Well, okay, we agree. As Christians are Mischian. According to Jesus, 150 00:11:46,440 --> 00:11:50,080 our prime directive, if you will, is who make disciples of all 151 00:11:50,200 --> 00:11:54,799 nations. But the fact is there are more people out there who believe in 152 00:11:54,879 --> 00:11:58,519 Et than believe in the words of this book, this Bible here that you 153 00:11:58,600 --> 00:12:03,200 carry. So you know, yeah, and I think when you start down 154 00:12:03,279 --> 00:12:09,399 the path of what the evidence shows that there's a lot of overlap, at 155 00:12:09,440 --> 00:12:18,320 least in terms of the language between UFO researchers and biblical theology. Well, 156 00:12:18,360 --> 00:12:22,639 you know, I also will say to you, first of all, what 157 00:12:24,440 --> 00:12:28,320 makes you believe in the Bible? You know, I mean, it's a 158 00:12:28,360 --> 00:12:31,799 good question. Here's another you know, another thing I do remember back in 159 00:12:33,039 --> 00:12:35,879 somewhere in the nineteen nineties, I happened to be in a dentist office and 160 00:12:35,919 --> 00:12:41,240 I saw a newsweek and on the newsweek it said something along the lines is 161 00:12:41,879 --> 00:12:48,200 that our brains are wired to our brains are wired to create a god. 162 00:12:48,399 --> 00:12:50,600 So if you don't have a god, you better create one. And I 163 00:12:50,639 --> 00:12:54,960 think, you know, you look back, you know, we say we 164 00:12:54,000 --> 00:13:00,639 have a monotheist, monotheistic society when it comes to Christians. Um. But 165 00:13:01,279 --> 00:13:05,360 you know, how many um of those have there been, you know, 166 00:13:05,399 --> 00:13:11,000 with a single deity worshiped UM who knows over there, you know, since 167 00:13:11,000 --> 00:13:13,399 the beginning of time. So there's a lot of Um. There's a lot 168 00:13:13,399 --> 00:13:18,840 of similarities. But also as far as the beliefs go, I think this 169 00:13:18,960 --> 00:13:24,200 is kind of an interesting topic to compare the two. You know, why 170 00:13:24,240 --> 00:13:28,960 does someone believe in God? Why does someone believe in aliens? Now, 171 00:13:28,200 --> 00:13:31,799 I will tell you this. You know, maybe there have been things, 172 00:13:31,799 --> 00:13:35,039 and we can talk about Fatima because that's an interesting I don't know if you 173 00:13:35,080 --> 00:13:41,200 know anything about Fatima, BUTI has done a lot of research on Fatima. 174 00:13:41,360 --> 00:13:45,720 Yep. But then you also here, here's the thing. I I know 175 00:13:45,759 --> 00:13:48,879 what I saw. I saw something over me. I had a UFO experience 176 00:13:50,279 --> 00:13:54,080 and it wasn't something that was made up in my mind or um. It 177 00:13:54,159 --> 00:13:58,080 was a real experience. And there are so many people that have had these 178 00:13:58,120 --> 00:14:01,720 real experiences. Now I'm not saying and so was Josh. Yeah so what 179 00:14:01,879 --> 00:14:05,120 Josh? So is my wife? Yeah? Yeah? So Again, I 180 00:14:05,159 --> 00:14:07,879 want to be very clear that we we we do not deny not only the 181 00:14:09,000 --> 00:14:13,080 U phenomena, but we are not we don't deny that there are people who 182 00:14:13,120 --> 00:14:20,399 are being severely traumatized by something that has been labeled at the alien abduction phenomenon. 183 00:14:20,039 --> 00:14:24,440 It's a real phenomenon. Okay, both the UFO phenomena and alien abduction. 184 00:14:24,639 --> 00:14:28,639 I'll put alien in air quotes because I reserve in judgment as to what 185 00:14:28,679 --> 00:14:33,559 those those entities truly are. But I've got ideas based on the evidence. 186 00:14:33,440 --> 00:14:37,279 But the point is we do not absolutely do not deny that something is going 187 00:14:37,320 --> 00:14:43,720 on. I guess I didn't get that far enough and far enough into your 188 00:14:43,759 --> 00:14:48,080 book to hit to read that part of it. Um. Oh no, 189 00:14:48,840 --> 00:14:52,360 but you know, I do also understand that, you know, we have 190 00:14:52,399 --> 00:14:56,639 a belief system. You know, when someone um, there's a friend of 191 00:14:56,639 --> 00:15:01,879 mine, Sam Moronto, and he gets really his fathers get ruffled. When 192 00:15:01,919 --> 00:15:03,559 someone says, do you believe in UFOs? He says, it's not a 193 00:15:03,679 --> 00:15:07,840 belief. It's either they're you know, either they're here or they're not. 194 00:15:07,240 --> 00:15:11,200 Um. Right, So I do understand. And when someone asked me if 195 00:15:11,240 --> 00:15:16,000 I believe in UFOs because of Sam, I always kind of hesitate, and 196 00:15:16,000 --> 00:15:20,639 it's what what do I you know? Is it a belief system? Um? 197 00:15:20,720 --> 00:15:24,200 But so let's talk about, um, some of the research you did 198 00:15:24,240 --> 00:15:30,559 and do you think, um, you think there it's like a cult or 199 00:15:30,639 --> 00:15:33,759 what do you what do you where you going? No? No, not 200 00:15:33,799 --> 00:15:37,600 at all. Um. I think what's happening is and this is really more 201 00:15:37,639 --> 00:15:41,840 an indictment of um, well, the church, the Christian Church. I 202 00:15:41,919 --> 00:15:46,759 don't think the Christian Church has done a very good job in teaching the reasons 203 00:15:48,039 --> 00:15:50,559 why we should believe that the Bible is true. I had to do that 204 00:15:50,600 --> 00:15:54,240 on my own. Um. I was brought to church in a week when 205 00:15:54,279 --> 00:15:56,360 I was a kid, went through Sunday School with all the flannelboard little kid 206 00:15:56,480 --> 00:16:00,960 pictures of no on his animals going into the ark and all that saff But 207 00:16:00,000 --> 00:16:03,720 as soon as I got into college, I quit going. And Josh very 208 00:16:03,759 --> 00:16:07,200 much the same way. Josh was. He'll tell you he was, you 209 00:16:07,200 --> 00:16:11,399 know, full blown new Asier. He was practicing astral projection and doing a 210 00:16:11,480 --> 00:16:15,399 lot of other things that yeah, we'll make for a really good story. 211 00:16:15,480 --> 00:16:18,080 Yeah, you're missing out on some of the really good stuff because he's been 212 00:16:18,120 --> 00:16:29,000 silenced by Russia tonight who did But so we we have different paths through which 213 00:16:29,000 --> 00:16:33,320 we came. I kind of went back to my I guess my sci fi 214 00:16:33,639 --> 00:16:37,159 upbringing, believing that our future was Star Trek, you know, that we 215 00:16:37,200 --> 00:16:45,559 would overcome the superstition of religion and that science and technology we can solve all 216 00:16:45,559 --> 00:16:48,799 of our problems in the future. Josh was just again, he was just 217 00:16:48,840 --> 00:16:52,200 fascinated with the concept of life and outer space. I love me a good 218 00:16:52,200 --> 00:16:57,879 space opera again, especially told from a hard science fiction perspective, but when 219 00:17:00,039 --> 00:17:04,759 we start looking at the evidence now as adults, and at some point during 220 00:17:04,759 --> 00:17:08,319 this conversation, yeah, I'd be happy to talk about Christian apologetics because that's 221 00:17:08,400 --> 00:17:11,119 kind of what led me to all of this, you know, the reasons 222 00:17:11,160 --> 00:17:17,759 that I can say that I'm convinced that Jesus of Nazareth actually lived, died, 223 00:17:17,799 --> 00:17:22,079 and literally rose from the dead. But again, just being open and 224 00:17:22,079 --> 00:17:27,160 honest, that's where I'm coming from from my starting point in looking at the 225 00:17:27,240 --> 00:17:33,400 UFO phenomenon. And I will grant Martin that you and probably every person who 226 00:17:33,480 --> 00:17:40,640 is a real student of the UFO phenomenon is at least as well informed on 227 00:17:40,720 --> 00:17:45,160 the research, if not better than I am. I've had a passing interest 228 00:17:45,200 --> 00:17:47,359 in it, kind of kept my eyes on it, but when it came 229 00:17:47,359 --> 00:17:48,960 down to research for the book, I had to dig again and really start 230 00:17:49,079 --> 00:17:56,400 looking at Morey Island and Kenneth Arnold, the influence of the intelligence community and 231 00:17:56,119 --> 00:18:07,319 Joint Security Command, you know, the the presence of government agents in every 232 00:18:07,359 --> 00:18:15,279 major UFO flap in the late forties. And there are researchers like Nick Redfern 233 00:18:15,359 --> 00:18:19,160 to whom I will gladly defer who's done a lot more research and heavy lifting 234 00:18:19,160 --> 00:18:23,839 on this. Again, not saying that those things didn't happen, just saying 235 00:18:23,880 --> 00:18:29,279 that as somebody who had to look at the Bible or a critical I say, 236 00:18:29,319 --> 00:18:33,039 Okay, let's weigh the evidence from the eyewitness testimony, to the archaeology, 237 00:18:33,160 --> 00:18:36,599 to the ancient texts, to the history of the nations around ancient Israel, 238 00:18:37,319 --> 00:18:40,960 which is kind of an area I'm specializing in right now. Let's apply 239 00:18:41,039 --> 00:18:44,680 that same sort of critical thinking to the modern uf OL phenomena. Are there 240 00:18:44,680 --> 00:18:52,119 other explanations that may fit the evidence better than the extraterrestrial hypothesis. Again, 241 00:18:52,480 --> 00:18:57,359 something is going on. Some of those strange things in the sky may well 242 00:18:57,400 --> 00:19:04,559 be government projects that we just don't know about yet. I would suggest that 243 00:19:04,559 --> 00:19:10,240 that's a plausible explanation for the videos that have been released through the to the 244 00:19:10,240 --> 00:19:14,440 Stars Academy of Arts and Sciences here in December and then again just this past 245 00:19:14,480 --> 00:19:19,279 week, the objects caught on the infrared radar cameras of the FATEAM pilots. 246 00:19:21,839 --> 00:19:27,359 There are some things that are misidentified commercial aircraft or natural phenomena of the planet 247 00:19:27,480 --> 00:19:33,319 Venus to use an old cliche, but there are some that are legitimately not 248 00:19:34,160 --> 00:19:45,720 explainable by natural phenomena or misidentified or secret aircraft. Those we're really interested in, 249 00:19:45,759 --> 00:19:51,720 because there are some that appear to defy the laws of physics. But 250 00:19:51,799 --> 00:19:56,480 there are researchers such as Jacques Ballet, who was not approaching this with a 251 00:19:56,519 --> 00:20:03,680 Christian worldview, and others such as John Keel who concluded that the extra dimensional 252 00:20:03,920 --> 00:20:11,119 hypothesis or interdimensional hypothesis is a better fit for the evidence, especially when you 253 00:20:11,160 --> 00:20:17,880 look at the difficulty the technological scientific challenges in trying to cross the vast distances 254 00:20:17,880 --> 00:20:25,640 between star systems, that it actually seems to make more sense that whatever these 255 00:20:25,640 --> 00:20:32,279 things are that are visiting Earth, they're coming from outside our three perceivable dimensions 256 00:20:32,880 --> 00:20:36,319 rather than from outside the Solar system. And that's kind of the approach we 257 00:20:36,359 --> 00:20:42,480 take on the UFO phenomenon. We also touch on the abduction phenomenon, and 258 00:20:42,559 --> 00:20:48,839 again you are looking at a phenomenon that at researchers such as doctor John Mack, 259 00:20:48,960 --> 00:20:55,119 the late psychologist Harvard University, suggested, bore so many similarities to the 260 00:20:55,200 --> 00:21:03,759 accounts of people who have been subjected to satanic ritual abuse that it was not 261 00:21:03,960 --> 00:21:10,839 statistically likely that these things were not somehow interconnected. So again we start looking 262 00:21:10,880 --> 00:21:17,279 at the evidence in that In that way, we're seeing that if we're drawing 263 00:21:17,279 --> 00:21:22,519 a Venn diagram of say, you know, spiritual encounters and extraterrestrial encounters, 264 00:21:22,640 --> 00:21:27,119 is a great deal of overlap there. And so I think we as Christians 265 00:21:27,160 --> 00:21:33,839 and the UFO community can have a conversation here and just kind of compare notes. 266 00:21:33,680 --> 00:21:38,519 I'm going back to the video you just mentioned that just came out a 267 00:21:38,559 --> 00:21:45,359 few days ago. I was released Through to the Stars. I actually got 268 00:21:45,400 --> 00:21:48,119 I wonder if I can read that. I actually got a note from a 269 00:21:48,160 --> 00:21:57,359 military pilot on that particular video, which is kind of surprising. He says. 270 00:21:57,480 --> 00:22:03,559 Or he was saying that this was not a classified video to begin with, 271 00:22:03,160 --> 00:22:07,359 and that it was shown at a briefing that he was at, um, 272 00:22:07,640 --> 00:22:10,880 you know, several many years ago. Um, I don't know, 273 00:22:10,960 --> 00:22:14,319 maybe ten or something years ago. So he said it was it was a 274 00:22:14,359 --> 00:22:18,160 great example of a slide and catch or something like that. I can't really 275 00:22:18,200 --> 00:22:22,839 pull it up right now of what he said, but he said the reason 276 00:22:22,920 --> 00:22:26,759 he was shown and the briefing was more about capturing it on a camera than 277 00:22:26,799 --> 00:22:30,599 it was about you know what the object was, but they they thought, 278 00:22:30,799 --> 00:22:33,119 you know, one time they thought it was some type of missile, but 279 00:22:33,200 --> 00:22:37,079 then they just don't know what it is. But it's a very clear I'm 280 00:22:37,079 --> 00:22:40,359 sure you looked at it as a very clear image of some type of object, 281 00:22:40,400 --> 00:22:44,559 and it's moving very fast, about the same speed as the the F 282 00:22:44,720 --> 00:22:48,880 eighteen itself. But I wrote an article about the previous release, the article 283 00:22:48,920 --> 00:22:52,960 that was released the video that was released along with the New York Times article 284 00:22:53,000 --> 00:22:57,200 back in mid December, which we couldn't have asked for better marketing because that 285 00:22:57,319 --> 00:23:02,039 video came out like a week after a book came out, so perfect time. 286 00:23:03,480 --> 00:23:08,240 But the story about that what's being called the the ussnmits UFO incident from 287 00:23:08,279 --> 00:23:12,519 back in two thousand and four. You know, again, that's a classic 288 00:23:12,599 --> 00:23:17,000 example of something that you cannot deny. I mean, there's something that was 289 00:23:17,039 --> 00:23:19,519 seen and you're you're talking about military pilots, guys who don't stand to gain 290 00:23:19,599 --> 00:23:25,559 anything by making stuff up. One Marine Corps pilot, a number of name 291 00:23:25,960 --> 00:23:29,519 Navy pilots, plus the radar operators on the USX Lexington. I believe it 292 00:23:29,640 --> 00:23:37,359 was so a number of trained observers spotted this thing. The thing I thought 293 00:23:37,440 --> 00:23:41,039 was really bizarre was that the first pilot on the scene saw this whatever it 294 00:23:41,160 --> 00:23:45,599 was hovering over the ocean and found that there was an area about a hundred 295 00:23:45,599 --> 00:23:51,480 meters across that water was apparently breaking over the top of it, like something 296 00:23:51,559 --> 00:23:53,440 really big was just submerged. In fact, the first pilot on the scene, 297 00:23:55,880 --> 00:24:02,000 Commander Fraber I believe a Fraber was his name, thought that he had 298 00:24:02,440 --> 00:24:07,640 arrived at the site of the crash of a commercial jetliner, so you know, 299 00:24:07,720 --> 00:24:11,359 something was under the You don't hear much talk about that. I'm really 300 00:24:11,359 --> 00:24:14,720 curious at what exactly was under the water that this thing was hovering over. 301 00:24:15,039 --> 00:24:18,680 But anyway, as he began to descend and began to pursue the thing, 302 00:24:18,759 --> 00:24:22,720 it took off in at a speed that his FA teen couldn't match. And 303 00:24:22,759 --> 00:24:29,519 then the radar guys back at the USS Lexington not Lexington, Princeton. The 304 00:24:29,519 --> 00:24:33,319 Princeton said, it's at the rally point. Well, the rally point was 305 00:24:33,319 --> 00:24:36,400 far on if a way that when you do the math at how quickly it 306 00:24:36,559 --> 00:24:40,880 got there, the thing was traveling in excess of thirty six hundred miles an 307 00:24:40,880 --> 00:24:44,440 hour, which is like twice the speed of the F eighteen half again as 308 00:24:44,440 --> 00:24:48,319 fast as the SR seventy one Blackbird, which is the fastest at that we 309 00:24:48,400 --> 00:24:52,599 know of, fastest man made aircraft on the planet. But the thing is, 310 00:24:52,480 --> 00:24:56,920 and it was really curious that the second flight of F A teens that 311 00:24:56,920 --> 00:24:59,759 came out there, they're the ones who caught it on their infrared radar. 312 00:25:00,400 --> 00:25:06,680 It wasn't outgassing anything hot, so it was not burning a fuel for propulsion 313 00:25:06,960 --> 00:25:11,720 of any sort. So what was it we don't know. But that doesn't 314 00:25:11,720 --> 00:25:18,240 necessarily mean, which is the idea that's been put forward by mister Alexando from 315 00:25:18,319 --> 00:25:22,440 To the Stars Academy and obviously Christopher Mellan out there who's talking about the most 316 00:25:22,440 --> 00:25:27,519 recent video, it doesn't necessarily mean that these objects came from outside the Solar 317 00:25:27,519 --> 00:25:33,880 System. It may well be that it was a government project, whether United 318 00:25:33,880 --> 00:25:40,400 States government, Russian, Chinese, something that moves in access of thirty six 319 00:25:40,519 --> 00:25:44,640 hundred mile pur maybe it's something we want China and rush you to know about 320 00:25:44,680 --> 00:25:48,119 yet. But well, I do have an argument in case of the second 321 00:25:48,599 --> 00:25:52,680 Okay, go ahead. Well my argument is very simple, as this is 322 00:25:52,880 --> 00:25:57,440 not the first time that they've seen something race away at a speed, and 323 00:25:57,559 --> 00:26:03,039 there has been speeds clocked up to twenty thousand miles an hour that we were 324 00:26:03,039 --> 00:26:08,359 talking, you know, thirty forty years ago. So another thing is and 325 00:26:08,680 --> 00:26:11,640 if that Kenneth Arnold's, yeah, that's the sighting that Kenneth Arnald had back 326 00:26:11,680 --> 00:26:17,279 in the nineteen forty seven was at some ludical speed. So yeah. But 327 00:26:18,079 --> 00:26:19,960 my point is that that there's there's a tendency though on the part of some 328 00:26:21,000 --> 00:26:22,319 observers to look at something like this and say, we don't know what it 329 00:26:22,920 --> 00:26:29,599 is, therefore aliens And that's not necessarily the case. You're talking about, 330 00:26:29,599 --> 00:26:36,559 Georgio, aren't you No? You know yet? The other thing I will 331 00:26:36,559 --> 00:26:41,440 tell you is there's never there's never been a report that I'm familiar with at 332 00:26:41,480 --> 00:26:45,799 this point where there's been the sound barrier broken. No matter what speed the 333 00:26:45,839 --> 00:26:49,559 thing took off in it's another me real mystery. It doesn't make any sense. 334 00:26:49,599 --> 00:26:52,359 There's and a lot of times, you know, the thing that I 335 00:26:52,400 --> 00:26:56,119 saw had absolutely no sound, and that was the most that was almost the 336 00:26:56,160 --> 00:27:02,039 most terrifying, if there was anything terrifying at all, It was more that 337 00:27:02,319 --> 00:27:06,480 bothered me or or sad in my mind more than anything else. So when 338 00:27:06,480 --> 00:27:11,039 these things are moving without making any noise, um, you know, it 339 00:27:11,079 --> 00:27:15,880 really is bizarre. Now again, you mentioned the possibility of another dimension or 340 00:27:15,920 --> 00:27:21,240 something like that, and I never ruled that out along with I never rule 341 00:27:21,319 --> 00:27:25,640 out aliens either. But I do want to say that, you know, 342 00:27:25,720 --> 00:27:32,880 perhaps there's just something in physics that they've figured out how to travel time, 343 00:27:33,440 --> 00:27:38,160 um that you know, doesn't involve anything that we know of today for instances, 344 00:27:41,880 --> 00:27:44,519 right, And you know, I do want to mention that poor Stephen 345 00:27:44,519 --> 00:27:49,359 Hawkin um passed away. I just wanted to mention that, um in just 346 00:27:49,839 --> 00:27:53,920 um, you know, he will be missed very deeply in the scientific community. 347 00:27:55,440 --> 00:27:57,920 Um. He did not have too many nice things to say about people 348 00:27:57,960 --> 00:28:06,359 that saw UFOs but Christians. Oh yeah. Other than that he was a 349 00:28:06,359 --> 00:28:07,960 good man, and I think he did. He did a lot of really 350 00:28:08,000 --> 00:28:15,079 spectacular things. So a lot of a lot of controversial and interesting thoughts that 351 00:28:15,200 --> 00:28:21,119 man had. Yeah. So well, again, the existence of extraterrestrials is 352 00:28:21,160 --> 00:28:26,839 not something we rule out now. For the record, we don't believe that 353 00:28:26,839 --> 00:28:32,759 that there is concrete evidence that Earth has been visited by an extraterrestrial intelligence. 354 00:28:33,400 --> 00:28:34,920 But like I said, one of the things we wanted to address in the 355 00:28:34,960 --> 00:28:42,720 book is that if that proves to be incorrect, and you know, Clatt 356 00:28:44,000 --> 00:28:49,279 stands up the White House long with Gort, hopefully we can all get along. 357 00:28:51,039 --> 00:28:55,920 And it comes down to this, because it comes down to the definition 358 00:28:56,000 --> 00:29:00,519 of what it means to be created in God's image. It's a problem with 359 00:29:00,640 --> 00:29:06,240 translating Hebrew into English. English is not as nuanced to language as Hebrew. 360 00:29:07,119 --> 00:29:11,640 When it says God said, let us create man in our image, it 361 00:29:11,680 --> 00:29:15,279 doesn't mean mankind looks like God, that God is a biped that stands between 362 00:29:15,400 --> 00:29:19,599 five and a half and six feet tall, or whatever what it means in 363 00:29:19,640 --> 00:29:23,960 the Hebrew. The sense we get is that we are God's image bearers. 364 00:29:25,119 --> 00:29:30,119 We are his moral agents on earth. That's the role that humans have been 365 00:29:30,160 --> 00:29:34,880 created to fill. And that applies to all of us, regardless of how 366 00:29:34,880 --> 00:29:41,640 old we are, how well developed we are, our lack or gift of 367 00:29:41,720 --> 00:29:48,559 cognitive abilities, any disabilities or special abilities that we might have, it applies 368 00:29:48,599 --> 00:29:53,720 to us merely because we are human. All of us are created as God's 369 00:29:53,759 --> 00:29:59,160 image bearers. Now some of us you know that out better than others. 370 00:30:00,039 --> 00:30:04,960 It doesn't change depending on again, you know how well educated we are, 371 00:30:06,000 --> 00:30:10,079 how rich we are, what all of us on Earth are created in God's 372 00:30:10,079 --> 00:30:12,000 image In that respect, and the landing on the White House lawn, the 373 00:30:12,119 --> 00:30:18,839 sudden appearance of an actual extraterrestrial in front of the United Nations would not change 374 00:30:18,839 --> 00:30:22,000 that status. So as a Christian, if an actual et were to land 375 00:30:22,039 --> 00:30:26,359 on the White House lawn, I would not throw out my Bible and say, 376 00:30:26,400 --> 00:30:27,480 Okay, well, I guess this is just a bunch of lies. 377 00:30:27,920 --> 00:30:33,720 No, say hey, cool, God's creation is even more amazing and convoluted 378 00:30:33,720 --> 00:30:37,079 than I thought it was. Yeah. One of the things I was going 379 00:30:37,119 --> 00:30:41,920 to ask you is, you know, how does the Christian faith line up 380 00:30:41,400 --> 00:30:48,400 with the possibility of being visited You you kind of answered that. But another 381 00:30:48,440 --> 00:30:52,640 thing is, you know, I think it's if you went back in time, 382 00:30:52,759 --> 00:30:57,039 say one hundred years or two hundred years or something like that, I 383 00:30:57,039 --> 00:31:00,519 don't think there would be any openness at all, just something about I don't 384 00:31:00,519 --> 00:31:07,240 think they would be comprehendable and there I don't think, well, I don't 385 00:31:07,240 --> 00:31:11,519 think go ahead. That's actually one of the things we went into in the 386 00:31:11,519 --> 00:31:18,240 book because, in the contrary what most people think, the possibility of life 387 00:31:18,240 --> 00:31:22,240 and outer space. The life on other planets is actually something that Christian theologians 388 00:31:22,240 --> 00:31:25,319 have done a lot of thinking about over the centuries. It's only been the 389 00:31:25,440 --> 00:31:30,880 last hundred years or so that Christians have kind of shut down that idea, 390 00:31:32,240 --> 00:31:36,920 in part because I think a lot of Roman Catholic theologians over the centuries have 391 00:31:37,039 --> 00:31:40,759 said, well, you know, we can't rule out that God might have 392 00:31:40,799 --> 00:31:42,960 created other worlds. I mean, because to say that he didn't do it 393 00:31:44,079 --> 00:31:47,680 or couldn't do it is putting a limit on God, and that's that's not 394 00:31:47,720 --> 00:31:53,799 allowable. So no, actually, history you find that, yeah, Christians 395 00:31:53,799 --> 00:31:59,359 going back centuries, hundreds and hundreds of years were actually considering the possibility of 396 00:31:59,400 --> 00:32:05,720 other planets and other occupied planets. Now, when you just said a minute 397 00:32:05,720 --> 00:32:10,440 ago that you know man was created in God's image or however that is termed, 398 00:32:12,519 --> 00:32:16,920 is this your own interpretation of you saying this to make it fit or 399 00:32:17,880 --> 00:32:22,240 where are you getting that information from? Hebrew scholar by the name of doctor 400 00:32:22,319 --> 00:32:27,279 Michael Heiser, he's the scholar in residence for logost Bible Software and he's also 401 00:32:27,319 --> 00:32:34,440 a respected upologist. He has looked at that and that is not a let's 402 00:32:34,480 --> 00:32:39,200 say that's not a fringe interpretation of that verse in Genesis. Again, when 403 00:32:39,200 --> 00:32:43,720 you dig into the Hebrew and understand what that means, it is a it's 404 00:32:43,720 --> 00:32:49,279 a little more nuanced than created in God's image. It's again, this is 405 00:32:49,319 --> 00:32:53,119 why I say that we the Christian Church have not done really an adequate job 406 00:32:53,200 --> 00:33:00,880 of educating people who call themselves Christians as to what the Bible's says and why 407 00:33:00,920 --> 00:33:05,039 we should leave it. It's sure, Um, so what do you think, 408 00:33:05,400 --> 00:33:12,400 um in your mind? Like the extraterrestrial intelligences as you called them out 409 00:33:12,440 --> 00:33:17,119 there. Um, we we're not having a very good track record as far 410 00:33:17,279 --> 00:33:22,920 as the way we treat each other, the way we kill each other, 411 00:33:23,119 --> 00:33:30,319 the way there's wars and all that. Um. Now, so far as 412 00:33:30,359 --> 00:33:35,240 we know, whatever it is that's visiting us hasn't really interfered or you know, 413 00:33:35,279 --> 00:33:37,720 there's a couple of cases where there was possibility that there was some type 414 00:33:37,720 --> 00:33:43,519 of you know, a shootdown or something of an aircraft or whatever. One 415 00:33:43,559 --> 00:33:49,480 in Australia, and there's one somewhere in the Mid States. But as far 416 00:33:49,559 --> 00:33:53,759 as we know, we may be you know, it may not be other 417 00:33:54,000 --> 00:33:59,000 creations that are violent like we are. I mean, do you ever think 418 00:33:59,000 --> 00:34:00,200 about that. I mean, we're we're not. We don't have a very 419 00:34:00,240 --> 00:34:04,880 good track record. No, that's true, we don't. And in fact, 420 00:34:04,920 --> 00:34:07,239 that's entirely consistent. I'll just point out that's entirely consistent with a Christian 421 00:34:07,239 --> 00:34:10,119 worldview that says, you know, we say we have no sin, we 422 00:34:10,159 --> 00:34:15,119 deceive ourselves and the truth there's not in us. The heart is inherently wicked. 423 00:34:15,559 --> 00:34:19,599 But I think Stephen Hawking might have been onto something here where he said, 424 00:34:19,639 --> 00:34:22,719 you know, the just looking at the history of the world, when 425 00:34:22,719 --> 00:34:28,679 a more advanced civilization comes across a less advanced civilization, it usually doesn't work 426 00:34:28,719 --> 00:34:34,800 out well for the less advanced civilization. So he was not really looking forward 427 00:34:34,960 --> 00:34:43,039 the possibility of encountering a more advanced civilization from outside the Solar system. Yeah, 428 00:34:43,079 --> 00:34:45,480 but you know, that's I argue with that, because that's human nature. 429 00:34:45,760 --> 00:34:51,280 We don't know the nature of what another intelligence is, and it all 430 00:34:51,480 --> 00:34:54,320 boils down to how it how it evolved, you know, really how it 431 00:34:54,440 --> 00:35:00,239 survived whatever to you know, evolve into what it has evolved into, the 432 00:35:00,480 --> 00:35:07,400 natural instincts to become tribal or hunt and whatever, you know, have turned 433 00:35:07,400 --> 00:35:12,519 now into you know, violence against each other. You know, who knows 434 00:35:12,519 --> 00:35:15,039 if they even think in those terms. No, we don't, because they 435 00:35:15,119 --> 00:35:21,800 may be so alien and so utterly to us that they can't even imagine what 436 00:35:21,840 --> 00:35:23,599 their thought processes are. I mean, they may take no more notice of 437 00:35:23,679 --> 00:35:28,039 us than we take of the ants on the sidewalk. On the other hand, 438 00:35:28,119 --> 00:35:34,360 they might be entirely benevolent. Don't know. Personally speaking, I don't 439 00:35:34,480 --> 00:35:38,320 think. I don't think there is other life out there, at least not 440 00:35:38,400 --> 00:35:43,519 that is contacting us directly. I think, And again, this is not 441 00:35:43,599 --> 00:35:45,840 a theological hill, but I'm going to dine on, which is why we 442 00:35:45,880 --> 00:35:50,880 address the issue of what it means to be created in God's image, because 443 00:35:50,880 --> 00:35:58,599 we think that's an important point one that is a stumbling block to Christians when 444 00:35:58,639 --> 00:36:00,960 they start looking into the UFO on what happens if there is other Does that 445 00:36:00,960 --> 00:36:04,679 mean that they're creating God's image too, and would Jesus have to die for 446 00:36:04,719 --> 00:36:13,719 them as well? No, but it is a I don't think that something 447 00:36:13,840 --> 00:36:19,320 that big would have been left out of God's word. In other words, 448 00:36:19,360 --> 00:36:24,760 if there was a possibility that Zeta reticulans, We're going to land and begin 449 00:36:24,840 --> 00:36:29,760 communications with us. That's probably something God would have told us. But again 450 00:36:30,000 --> 00:36:37,599 that speculation on my part. I don't have a enough information, biblical or 451 00:36:37,639 --> 00:36:40,679 otherwise to make that a theological hill on which I'm going to, you know, 452 00:36:42,280 --> 00:36:45,280 defend to the death. A friend of ours has a belief that he 453 00:36:45,320 --> 00:36:50,519 calls the doctrine of stated intent, in which he points to the fact that 454 00:36:50,559 --> 00:36:53,800 in the Bible, God said he created the stars in the sky to mark 455 00:36:53,880 --> 00:36:58,880 the times and the seasons, and so that's their stated intent. He did 456 00:36:58,880 --> 00:37:02,760 not say that I put these stars in the sky to host inhabited planets with 457 00:37:02,840 --> 00:37:07,480 civilizations that might someday visit you. Okay, I can. I can see 458 00:37:07,480 --> 00:37:14,119 where he's getting as supporting it with the evidence. But again, one way 459 00:37:14,199 --> 00:37:20,679 or the other, whether we are alone in the universe or whether someday an 460 00:37:20,679 --> 00:37:24,599 advanced civilization makes contact with us, that does not change our status as God's 461 00:37:24,639 --> 00:37:30,199 image bearers on planet Earth. And so one way or the other, I'm 462 00:37:30,199 --> 00:37:34,679 secure in my Christian faith. Well, um, all right, um, 463 00:37:35,320 --> 00:37:39,199 someone just asking the chat room, they said, I'm confused, does he 464 00:37:39,280 --> 00:37:44,079 believe in ets or not? So I'm thinking that Okay, let me let 465 00:37:44,079 --> 00:37:47,559 me give you one word answer. Nokay, you know, and don't you 466 00:37:47,920 --> 00:37:52,480 don't you think that's a little bit And I'm not saying that you are arrogant, 467 00:37:52,480 --> 00:37:54,320 but don't you think that's a little bit arrogant? Well? No, 468 00:37:54,400 --> 00:37:58,440 I mean we have to reach a conclusion one way or the other. I 469 00:37:58,440 --> 00:38:01,159 mean I could say I don't know for sure, but I don't believe that 470 00:38:01,199 --> 00:38:06,320 there are now. Like I said, I'm not If I'm proven wrong, 471 00:38:06,559 --> 00:38:09,159 it's not going to crush my world view. Okay, I've been I've been 472 00:38:09,239 --> 00:38:14,039 wrong about lots of things in my life. All right now. I've been 473 00:38:14,079 --> 00:38:16,079 a Chicago Cubs fan since I was six years old. I only got right 474 00:38:16,079 --> 00:38:22,199 the one time back in twenty sixteen. So, uh, let me ask 475 00:38:22,239 --> 00:38:27,559 you something. Do you about the your views of God? I guess do 476 00:38:27,599 --> 00:38:32,719 you think first of all, God always was yes? And so there was 477 00:38:32,800 --> 00:38:37,119 never a beginning? He just always was. Now, now I'm going to 478 00:38:37,199 --> 00:38:42,519 say something sound a little silly, but okay, if that's the case, 479 00:38:42,559 --> 00:38:46,039 then why did he wait for un till only fourteen billion years ago to start 480 00:38:46,039 --> 00:38:51,800 the universe? He always was? What was he doing all that time? 481 00:38:52,559 --> 00:38:55,440 Well, that's what I'm going to take the I don't know if I could 482 00:38:55,519 --> 00:38:59,199 know the mind of God, if I could understand the mind of God, 483 00:38:59,320 --> 00:39:01,039 God would be is small where you could fit inside this head here, and 484 00:39:01,079 --> 00:39:05,480 he'd be a pretty small guy. You know. That's that's that's a cop 485 00:39:05,480 --> 00:39:09,519 out. I guess, sure, yeah, um, and you know I'm 486 00:39:09,519 --> 00:39:13,280 not him, so I can't answer that question. I've seen I've seen a 487 00:39:13,280 --> 00:39:20,840 few different debates UM with Hitch Hitchens and and uh and and I've seen kind 488 00:39:20,840 --> 00:39:25,480 of you know that that um, you know, I'm I've seen that that 489 00:39:25,559 --> 00:39:30,000 cop out. I don't know, you know, I mean, that's that's 490 00:39:30,039 --> 00:39:35,199 better than making something up. Yes, but there's plenty of things we can 491 00:39:35,320 --> 00:39:39,960 certainly say that about UM and that that's h exactly what I say about UM. 492 00:39:40,039 --> 00:39:44,880 Whether I think they're um UFOs have ets in them or not, I 493 00:39:44,880 --> 00:39:46,800 don't know, you know, So I guess I'm kind of along the same 494 00:39:47,920 --> 00:39:51,559 I'll take the fifth as well. Well. You know, some might think 495 00:39:51,559 --> 00:39:53,039 it's a cop out. I just think it's being honest. I have no 496 00:39:53,159 --> 00:39:57,400 idea. I don't know. I don't know that the universe is fourteen million 497 00:39:57,519 --> 00:40:01,039 years old. Yeah, you know, I I'm not really sure about the 498 00:40:01,039 --> 00:40:06,239 Big Bang If that's you know, I think it's very possible that some day, 499 00:40:06,440 --> 00:40:09,639 you know, and there's so many things that do point to it, 500 00:40:09,679 --> 00:40:14,519 but someday they may uncover something. Oh so this is what happened. I 501 00:40:14,519 --> 00:40:17,039 mean, how many times has that happened in science? As we went along? 502 00:40:17,079 --> 00:40:22,360 You know, you think about the Church going back to the church having 503 00:40:22,400 --> 00:40:29,199 Galileo, um, you know, and under house arrest for taking Copernicus' view 504 00:40:29,280 --> 00:40:34,039 that the Earth went around the Sun. Um. You know, there's there's 505 00:40:34,079 --> 00:40:37,639 a lot of things in religion that have stifled science, you know, real 506 00:40:37,679 --> 00:40:40,000 science. Well, I think there was more going on there with Galileo than 507 00:40:40,039 --> 00:40:44,079 just his view of astrophysics. I think there were some things that he had 508 00:40:44,119 --> 00:40:46,800 been saying that the Church took issue with in terms of theology. It wasn't 509 00:40:46,840 --> 00:40:53,760 just the science. And would those things be acceptable in today's world? The 510 00:40:53,800 --> 00:40:57,480 things that he were saying, I mean, can you give an example. 511 00:40:58,559 --> 00:41:00,039 This is not an area of my study, but I will say this, 512 00:41:00,159 --> 00:41:05,280 the Roman Catholic Church sure shows a lot of interest in what might be coming 513 00:41:05,320 --> 00:41:07,559 from out there. In fact, they've been talking openly about their willingness to 514 00:41:07,960 --> 00:41:13,719 baptize their space brothers, and even go so far as to talk theology with 515 00:41:13,800 --> 00:41:17,039 them, because if an advanced civilization comes to Earth from somewhere out there, 516 00:41:17,079 --> 00:41:22,159 they may have a more developed theology that might require some recalibration on their part 517 00:41:22,159 --> 00:41:30,119 as far as Christian doctrine. M okay, I can't go there again. 518 00:41:30,199 --> 00:41:36,840 I think that the eyewitness testimony of the ministry life, death resurrection of Jesus 519 00:41:36,840 --> 00:41:39,920 of Nazareth, that that, to me is the anchor point for all of 520 00:41:39,920 --> 00:41:45,840 the stuff in the Old Testament that he validated as history. And again just 521 00:41:45,880 --> 00:41:51,480 my own research into what the neighbors of the ancient Israelites believe the pagan nations 522 00:41:51,519 --> 00:41:54,519 around there supports some things in the Bible that otherwise doesn't make any sense. 523 00:41:57,000 --> 00:42:00,400 But that's that I could do two hours just on that topic Cologne. So 524 00:42:00,519 --> 00:42:04,960 rather than go down the rabbit trail. The Roman Catholic Church is a lot 525 00:42:05,000 --> 00:42:10,760 more open to things today then they probably were in Galileo's day. Theologically speaking, 526 00:42:10,760 --> 00:42:14,559 they're open more open now than they were probably fifty years ago. In 527 00:42:14,599 --> 00:42:21,440 the teachings of say the Jesuit priest Prr. Chardin, who was the character. 528 00:42:21,599 --> 00:42:24,239 He was the guy on which they based the character Father Lancaster Marrin and 529 00:42:24,280 --> 00:42:28,840 The Exorcist, you know, the guy discovers that, you know, little 530 00:42:29,000 --> 00:42:34,199 statue of the demon Puzuzu in Iraq, and then it winds up traveling to 531 00:42:34,239 --> 00:42:37,679 Washington, DC, which explains a lot about our political system, I think. 532 00:42:37,719 --> 00:42:45,599 But he believed that the universe and that all of creation was getting more 533 00:42:45,639 --> 00:42:51,440 and more sentient. He was credited with coining the term the social network, 534 00:42:52,079 --> 00:42:55,239 and that there was the geosphere, the biosphere, and then the noo sphere, 535 00:42:55,320 --> 00:43:01,599 which is a network of human interaction, human knowledge that was ever growing, 536 00:43:02,280 --> 00:43:07,960 and that someday, as we developed and grew in love and knowledge, 537 00:43:07,960 --> 00:43:12,159 we would all come together in what he called the Omega point and become one 538 00:43:12,320 --> 00:43:16,360 with the cosmos and one with the Creator. That's very Eastern, that's not 539 00:43:16,840 --> 00:43:23,679 Orthodox Christianity, and a lot of his writings were restricted. The distribution of 540 00:43:23,719 --> 00:43:29,639 his writings was restricted by the Vatican back in the early sixties, but just 541 00:43:29,719 --> 00:43:35,599 recently, a group of Vaticans are rather Jesuit scientists, because all the Jesuits 542 00:43:35,599 --> 00:43:43,480 are well scientists by training, set a letter to Pope Francis asking him to 543 00:43:43,800 --> 00:43:50,239 essentially remove the warning labels from Tayard's writings and Essentially, when you take what 544 00:43:50,400 --> 00:43:58,400 Tayard taught from a Jesuit perspective and move it into the Silicon Valley, you 545 00:43:58,480 --> 00:44:04,199 essentially have the singularity terror movement, and you've got the instead of the Omega 546 00:44:04,280 --> 00:44:09,199 point, you've got the singularity of doctor Raymond Kerswile. So you know, 547 00:44:09,440 --> 00:44:16,119 there there's there's a lot more overlap between theology and science than most people would 548 00:44:16,159 --> 00:44:21,559 like to think. Um, and again, coming back to the UF phenomenon, 549 00:44:21,639 --> 00:44:24,159 A lot of people and again I certainly don't want to accuse anyone who's 550 00:44:24,199 --> 00:44:30,639 interested in the subject of being in a cult, and certainly not all researchers 551 00:44:30,679 --> 00:44:37,760 are looking at the phenomenon for the big answers of life are answers to the 552 00:44:37,760 --> 00:44:40,960 big questions of life, which are where do we come from, why are 553 00:44:40,960 --> 00:44:45,679 we here? And what happens to us when we die? But there are 554 00:44:45,679 --> 00:44:49,599 a lot of people who do. And you know, God love him. 555 00:44:49,639 --> 00:44:52,360 I believe he's sincere. But Stephen Grewer, doctor Stephen grew is one of 556 00:44:52,400 --> 00:45:00,639 those fellas Doctor edgar Mitchell was another. Right, Um, now we may 557 00:45:00,800 --> 00:45:02,320 we may take some calls. Is that okay? If we take a phone 558 00:45:02,400 --> 00:45:07,199 call or two? Okay? So anyum, so the numbers up on the 559 00:45:07,239 --> 00:45:09,840 screen. If you're listening live, hey, while I have you people live 560 00:45:10,079 --> 00:45:15,320 right now, And for listeners that check this out as a podcast at some 561 00:45:15,440 --> 00:45:20,320 point and you would like to listen live, I'm actually thinking about moving the 562 00:45:20,440 --> 00:45:25,320 day the day that I do the show, possibly to Saturday, Sunday or 563 00:45:25,440 --> 00:45:32,880 Monday. So and that's that's only because sometimes I get busy and Wednesdays are 564 00:45:32,920 --> 00:45:39,800 really tough for me to do. So if you'd like to put your note 565 00:45:39,840 --> 00:45:45,480 in the chat room now, so either Saturday, Sunday or Monday, I 566 00:45:45,679 --> 00:45:46,880 may switch the day too. I may keep it the way it is, 567 00:45:47,440 --> 00:45:52,920 but if someone would just reply to that, or if you're listening as a 568 00:45:52,000 --> 00:46:00,199 podcast and you would like to contact me because you do listen occasionally live, 569 00:46:00,480 --> 00:46:05,880 it's Martin at podcast ufo dot com. Martin at podcast ufo dot com is 570 00:46:05,920 --> 00:46:13,960 the email address. So, UM, about the Bible, there is there's 571 00:46:14,000 --> 00:46:17,320 a lot of people who have talked like you, there's some connections with UFOs 572 00:46:17,519 --> 00:46:23,559 or et s and the Bible. But my first question about that is what 573 00:46:23,760 --> 00:46:30,239 makes you I said this earlier, what makes you believe the Bible is or 574 00:46:30,639 --> 00:46:32,519 what do you think it is, and why do you think it is what 575 00:46:32,639 --> 00:46:37,119 you think it is? Okay, that's a good question. That's something that 576 00:46:37,599 --> 00:46:44,360 I began to really look at seriously. About twenty years ago. I was 577 00:46:45,360 --> 00:46:49,559 found myself as a mister mom of a young daughter, and I realized one 578 00:46:49,599 --> 00:46:52,280 night I couldn't explain to her why I thought right was right and wrong was 579 00:46:52,320 --> 00:46:57,320 wrong. I didn't know why I believed what I believed, as I said 580 00:46:57,320 --> 00:47:00,800 before, I was raised in the Church, but could not give an answer 581 00:47:00,039 --> 00:47:04,920 for why I thought the Bible it would be true. Okay, yeah, 582 00:47:04,920 --> 00:47:07,159 this is this is all nice stuff in here, but what if it's all 583 00:47:07,599 --> 00:47:12,199 made up? So I again looking at the textual evidence, the archaeological evidence, 584 00:47:12,239 --> 00:47:15,599 and so forth, books like the Case for Christ by Least Roble, 585 00:47:15,840 --> 00:47:22,840 other resources like that. When you come right down to it, the texts 586 00:47:22,880 --> 00:47:30,400 that have been collated into the New Testament have been preserved more accurately, more 587 00:47:30,440 --> 00:47:34,119 carefully over the last two thousand years than any other texts that exists from the 588 00:47:34,159 --> 00:47:37,800 classical world. I mean, if one were to say we can't trust these 589 00:47:37,840 --> 00:47:45,119 documents, because then to apply the same standard to the writings of Caesar, 590 00:47:45,880 --> 00:47:50,800 the Roman historians, the Greeks, like you know, Homer, Aristotle play. 591 00:47:50,880 --> 00:47:52,039 We have to throw all of that out because all of the there are 592 00:47:52,039 --> 00:47:57,159 fewer copies and they're much newer than the texts that make up the Bible. 593 00:47:57,960 --> 00:48:00,400 You look at, and I could, I could go through a number of 594 00:48:00,400 --> 00:48:07,800 other reasons, but what cinched it for me was the fifteenth chapter of Paul's 595 00:48:07,840 --> 00:48:12,800 First Letter to the Corinthians First Corinthians fifteen, where he says to the church 596 00:48:12,840 --> 00:48:17,320 at Corinth, Look, this is what was passed on to me, and 597 00:48:17,400 --> 00:48:20,840 he goes through, you know, this is what we believe as Christians, 598 00:48:21,400 --> 00:48:23,079 and that on the third day he rose again and appeared first to Peter, 599 00:48:23,559 --> 00:48:29,840 and then to James, James his half brother, and then to the twelve, 600 00:48:30,880 --> 00:48:35,199 and then to five hundred brothers at once, some of whom have fallen 601 00:48:35,239 --> 00:48:37,760 asleep, but most are still alive. Essentially, what he was telling the 602 00:48:37,840 --> 00:48:43,280 church at Corinth, which is in Turkey today, was that there were a 603 00:48:43,360 --> 00:48:46,960 lot of witnesses who saw this guy who had been crucified and yet was alive 604 00:48:47,000 --> 00:48:51,679 again. And even though he was writing the letter twenty years later, most 605 00:48:51,679 --> 00:48:52,880 of them were still alive. So if you don't believe me, go to 606 00:48:52,960 --> 00:48:59,239 Jerusalem. And ask around because there are witnesses still walking around who saw this. 607 00:48:59,320 --> 00:49:01,719 In verify what I what I'm saying to you, what I'm writing to 608 00:49:01,760 --> 00:49:07,800 you? Um? Uh that And then in his half brother James, his 609 00:49:07,840 --> 00:49:12,400 story the fact that he was martyred in the year sixty seven A d um 610 00:49:12,559 --> 00:49:16,480 you know, Gospel of John chapter seven James and his brothers. Go ahead, 611 00:49:16,480 --> 00:49:20,719 pardon me for just one second, where we are having an issue with 612 00:49:20,760 --> 00:49:23,760 our phone line. I'm using a different computer. I do need to answer 613 00:49:23,760 --> 00:49:27,480 this real quickly, and you'll be put on hold for just a second. 614 00:49:27,519 --> 00:49:30,440 I'll be right back to you. Sure, sure, all right, Derek 615 00:49:30,480 --> 00:49:35,400 here you are okay, all right? Um? So what happens? I 616 00:49:35,440 --> 00:49:37,920 mean A um, actually, UM, I guess it didn't come through the 617 00:49:38,000 --> 00:49:43,760 skype? Is the phone call. I'm in a hotel room, so I'm 618 00:49:43,840 --> 00:49:46,159 using a different computer and this Skype is not allowing me to add calls. 619 00:49:47,000 --> 00:49:52,639 I really apologize for that. So our caller did ask um. So, 620 00:49:52,119 --> 00:49:55,039 I don't know. Maybe there was a bunch of silence just now on there. 621 00:49:55,320 --> 00:49:59,920 The caller wanted to know, um, what your thoughts were on Father 622 00:50:00,119 --> 00:50:06,519 al Ducci and his thoughts of extraterrestrial life. I'm not familiar with father al 623 00:50:06,599 --> 00:50:14,599 Ducci, sadly or father you talking about Balducci the maybe at so I couldn't 624 00:50:14,679 --> 00:50:17,599 quite understand what he said. That's probably it, Yes, okay, Yeah, 625 00:50:17,840 --> 00:50:24,400 he's one of the researchers with the Vaticans, the Vatican Observatory. Well, 626 00:50:24,599 --> 00:50:28,159 again, I think that the Vatican is trying to hedge its bets. 627 00:50:29,599 --> 00:50:34,679 Yeah, and again they've been open to the possibility of extraterrestrial life for a 628 00:50:34,679 --> 00:50:39,360 long time now. I can't say that I agree with their proposal that they 629 00:50:39,400 --> 00:50:46,679 would baptize extraterrestrials should they exist. But again, in that respect, we're 630 00:50:46,679 --> 00:50:53,880 getting into an area of theology that's highly speculative, and until we have hard 631 00:50:53,920 --> 00:51:00,920 evidence that etis actually exist in are visiting us and have some in just in 632 00:51:00,760 --> 00:51:07,960 pursuing faith in Jesus Christ. Well, it's an interesting exercise. I would 633 00:51:07,760 --> 00:51:12,760 rather deal with what we know in the evidence that we have in front of 634 00:51:12,840 --> 00:51:19,960 us now. It's it's a topic that my colleague, in fact, my 635 00:51:20,000 --> 00:51:23,880 boss, Tom Horne, the CEO of Skywash TV, has done some research 636 00:51:24,000 --> 00:51:30,039 on. He's the author of Exobaticana and has actually been down to the Vatican 637 00:51:30,039 --> 00:51:35,119 observatory and talked to some of the folks connected with the research. So we 638 00:51:35,360 --> 00:51:38,000 took it in a different direction because we felt Tom and the late Chris Putnam 639 00:51:38,079 --> 00:51:45,280 is co author, really covered that subject really well. Now you've been mentioning 640 00:51:45,400 --> 00:51:52,599 Jesus Christ a lot, and so you're going back to a couple of thousand 641 00:51:52,719 --> 00:51:58,840 years. You know, mankind's been around forever. Why do why do we 642 00:51:59,000 --> 00:52:06,880 think that Jesus Christ existed? Or is the end all to the way things 643 00:52:06,960 --> 00:52:13,400 should be in the one God that you believe in. Well, it's a 644 00:52:13,400 --> 00:52:16,159 fair question, and again I come back to the eyewitness testimony. We've got 645 00:52:16,199 --> 00:52:20,760 the eyewitness testimony of people who saw him, lived with him, worked with 646 00:52:20,800 --> 00:52:29,119 him, learned from him. The Gospels Matthew John were disciples of his. 647 00:52:29,280 --> 00:52:34,480 Mark was the disciple of Peter Luke was an historian who in the beginning of 648 00:52:34,480 --> 00:52:37,760 the Gospel of Luke says that he basically talked to people who've been involved with 649 00:52:37,760 --> 00:52:43,360 the movement since the beginning, and was very careful to compile an account of 650 00:52:43,400 --> 00:52:45,599 what had happened so that others might believe. Luke also wrote the Book of 651 00:52:45,639 --> 00:52:52,199 Acts and the Company Paul On some of his travels. And again, as 652 00:52:52,280 --> 00:52:58,400 Paul mentioned in his letter to the Church Corinth, you had the five witnesses, 653 00:52:58,400 --> 00:53:02,159 some of whom he said had died. But we're still around. As 654 00:53:02,199 --> 00:53:05,599 I said, in a sense telling the church at Corinth, if you don't 655 00:53:05,599 --> 00:53:08,960 believe the story that I'm telling you, there are still witnesses walking around who 656 00:53:09,000 --> 00:53:15,239 saw this guy rise from the dead. So it's the eyewitness testimony. And 657 00:53:15,280 --> 00:53:19,719 again the fact that those texts have been preserved better than any other document from 658 00:53:19,679 --> 00:53:22,480 the classical world is the anchor point for me. I would find it really 659 00:53:22,480 --> 00:53:27,559 difficult to accept that, yes, this guy walked on water, Yes this 660 00:53:27,639 --> 00:53:31,320 guy performed these miracles and cast out these demons and did this, that and 661 00:53:31,400 --> 00:53:35,280 the other thing, if it had not been for the eyewitness testimony and the 662 00:53:35,320 --> 00:53:39,320 fact that the eyewitnesses were then willing to die for that testimony. Yes, 663 00:53:39,400 --> 00:53:45,280 people will die for their beliefs, even if those beliefs are wrong. But 664 00:53:45,639 --> 00:53:51,320 people who are sane anyway aren't likely to die for something that they know is 665 00:53:51,360 --> 00:53:57,760 a lie. So unless all of the apostles were really wrong about what they 666 00:53:57,760 --> 00:54:05,320 saw, because the record shows that to all accept John were martyred what they 667 00:54:05,360 --> 00:54:07,719 believe and again as I started to say. The thing that's insted for me 668 00:54:07,920 --> 00:54:13,960 was James, the half brother of Jesus, who in John chapter seven is 669 00:54:14,000 --> 00:54:15,960 one of the brothers of Jesus, who confronted him and say, hey, 670 00:54:16,480 --> 00:54:20,440 aren't you going to go down to the festival in Jerusalem, because if you 671 00:54:20,519 --> 00:54:22,239 want to be known, you can't just keep preaching up here and out in 672 00:54:22,280 --> 00:54:27,960 the sticks in Galilee. For even his brothers did not believe in him. 673 00:54:29,199 --> 00:54:32,599 And yet about thirty five years later, James was willing to be martyred rather 674 00:54:32,639 --> 00:54:37,960 than recant his testimony that Jesus was Messiah. Now why would he do that? 675 00:54:38,000 --> 00:54:39,920 I mean, if my sister had come to me one day and said, 676 00:54:39,960 --> 00:54:45,719 hey, before Abraham was I am, yeah, right, we'd be 677 00:54:45,719 --> 00:54:49,840 calling for medical help. And that's kind of the position that James and his 678 00:54:49,920 --> 00:54:55,480 brothers Jude and others Simeon were in. And yet something changed between the time 679 00:54:55,559 --> 00:54:59,880 of the crucifixion and the time when James was actually martyred. And it's no 680 00:55:00,239 --> 00:55:02,960 from Paul's testimony and others that James was a leader in the early Church. 681 00:55:04,639 --> 00:55:09,559 What changed? First Corinthians fifteen, the risen Jesus appeared first to Peter then 682 00:55:09,599 --> 00:55:14,639 to James, that might change your world views. Seeing your brother rise from 683 00:55:14,639 --> 00:55:20,960 the dead, that's what changed my worldview. M Yeah, I don't know 684 00:55:20,960 --> 00:55:25,960 what to I'm just gonna stay agnostic when it comes to things like that and 685 00:55:27,679 --> 00:55:31,519 this, kind of the same way I approach the UFO topic. I try 686 00:55:31,559 --> 00:55:37,840 to be anyway. You know, there's Christianity. He's been around for a 687 00:55:37,920 --> 00:55:43,800 couple of thousand years. I already mentioned that humans have been around for maybe 688 00:55:43,800 --> 00:55:47,199 two hundred thousand. There's it's questionable how long. Maybe three hundred, maybe 689 00:55:47,239 --> 00:55:53,440 longer. There's been so many religions where they said this is it, this 690 00:55:53,559 --> 00:55:58,559 is it. There's still religions now around the world that this is the right 691 00:55:58,679 --> 00:56:04,599 religion. Why do you think Christianity is the only religion? I mean, 692 00:56:04,639 --> 00:56:08,039 do you agree that other people have the rights to practice their own religions. 693 00:56:08,239 --> 00:56:12,440 Oh? Sure. See, that's the thing. When God created us all 694 00:56:12,480 --> 00:56:16,440 with free will, and that includes the free will to do bad things. 695 00:56:16,440 --> 00:56:21,320 In fact, that's the answer I think, or an answer anyway, for 696 00:56:21,440 --> 00:56:23,159 why bad things happen to good people. God did not create us to be 697 00:56:23,199 --> 00:56:30,079 automatons, to only do according to His will or only operate within a certain 698 00:56:30,199 --> 00:56:35,840 range of actions. You know, I'll let you swing your arm this far, 699 00:56:35,880 --> 00:56:37,320 but I'm going to step in and stop you before you hit someone else 700 00:56:37,400 --> 00:56:42,320 in the nose. No, he gave us free will to choose, and 701 00:56:42,440 --> 00:56:47,719 sadly a lot of us choose to do bad things. So and now now 702 00:56:47,719 --> 00:56:55,119 I'm not equating doing bad things with choosing to believe in another God. Again, 703 00:56:55,159 --> 00:56:59,000 that's that's part of our creation. God created us all with free will 704 00:56:59,400 --> 00:57:05,800 and then sent his son in order to draw men to him. But again, 705 00:57:05,800 --> 00:57:09,079 the choice is up to us. So when I talk about this with 706 00:57:09,079 --> 00:57:13,599 other people, I try not to be you know, I get passionate about 707 00:57:13,639 --> 00:57:17,079 it, but I try not to be too overbearing about it because ultimately I 708 00:57:17,119 --> 00:57:22,559 can't twist anyone's arm. I can't you take out a gun or use the 709 00:57:22,639 --> 00:57:25,760 point of a sword, which sadly has been done by people in the name 710 00:57:25,800 --> 00:57:30,599 of Christ in the past, and there's no biblical support for that. Let 711 00:57:30,679 --> 00:57:36,119 me point out, I'm happy to share the reasons I have faith in Jesus 712 00:57:36,239 --> 00:57:37,480 Christ and the reasons for the hope that I have in Christ, which is 713 00:57:37,480 --> 00:57:40,000 part of our calling as Christians. But it is not up to me to 714 00:57:40,079 --> 00:57:45,639 compel you, and certainly not to try to force you to choose. That 715 00:57:45,760 --> 00:57:49,920 is up to you. That is your choice, your decision. So to 716 00:57:49,920 --> 00:57:52,320 our Jewish brothers and sisters, Muslim brothers and sisters, Hindus, Buddhists, 717 00:57:53,360 --> 00:57:59,760 Jane's shintos, whatever, you have the right to choose. But I'll be 718 00:57:59,800 --> 00:58:01,159 happy to share you know, if you want, I'll be happy to share 719 00:58:01,159 --> 00:58:06,559 the evidence. Now, why do I believe Jesus is the way? Because 720 00:58:06,559 --> 00:58:08,599 he said so, I am the Way, the Truth and the life, 721 00:58:08,599 --> 00:58:13,719 and no one comes to the Father except through me. That's pretty clear. 722 00:58:15,400 --> 00:58:19,920 It would be a lot easier to be a Christian if we could do like 723 00:58:20,559 --> 00:58:22,880 In fact, I just talked about this today on sky Watched TV. I 724 00:58:22,880 --> 00:58:25,880 do a daily news update about ten fifteen minutes in length. A mega church 725 00:58:25,920 --> 00:58:30,840 pastor in Chicago, who and I'm sure you heard the story and all the 726 00:58:30,960 --> 00:58:32,760 you know, the fewer are from Christians. When Joy Behar on the View 727 00:58:32,800 --> 00:58:39,199 said that Vice President Pence saying that he gets messages or hears from Jesus is 728 00:58:39,239 --> 00:58:43,639 a sign of insanity. Well, a mega church pastor at a Christian church 729 00:58:43,679 --> 00:58:46,960 in Chicago said that the idea that Jesus is the only way to heaven is 730 00:58:47,000 --> 00:58:51,360 insanity. And this isn't a fringe guy. This is a guy who is 731 00:58:51,719 --> 00:58:57,280 an adjunct professor at the Chicago Theological Seminary. He's also on the He's a 732 00:58:57,360 --> 00:59:01,920 dean at the Duke University Divinity School. So this is not a fringe guy. 733 00:59:01,920 --> 00:59:05,639 This is a guy who pastors a church of more than ten thousand members. 734 00:59:05,719 --> 00:59:08,239 Saying Jesus isn't the only way? Well, okay, then what I 735 00:59:08,280 --> 00:59:13,199 say is that you're not in any real sense a Christian. I'm sorry not. 736 00:59:13,360 --> 00:59:15,960 You cannot square that with Jesus's own words. I am the Way, 737 00:59:16,280 --> 00:59:19,599 the Truth, and the Life. Now, like I said, it'd be 738 00:59:19,599 --> 00:59:22,239 a lot easier if we could say he is a way, but that's not 739 00:59:22,239 --> 00:59:30,199 what he said. Do you explain that things happening like the Crusades, where 740 00:59:30,559 --> 00:59:35,599 you know so many people were killed in the name of Christianity and other you 741 00:59:35,639 --> 00:59:39,360 know, conflicts, do you push that off as free will of man as 742 00:59:39,360 --> 00:59:45,159 well? Free will? But I mean, you know, free will is 743 00:59:45,199 --> 00:59:46,280 a very broad topic. It doesn't mean a good thing, and it's not 744 00:59:46,360 --> 00:59:52,039 excusing it. Certainly, you know the fact that somebody chooses to shoot seventeen 745 00:59:52,119 --> 00:59:54,519 people in a school in Florida. Yeah, that's an example of free will, 746 00:59:54,519 --> 00:59:59,639 but doesn't excuse what he did. Now, the Crusades are a little 747 00:59:59,679 --> 01:00:04,480 more new wants the people like to like to think. There were a lot 748 01:00:04,519 --> 01:00:07,440 of bad things that happened as the Crusaders got into the Holy Land and started 749 01:00:07,480 --> 01:00:10,360 slaughtering people, you know, innocence for no reason, and that is inexcusable. 750 01:00:10,360 --> 01:00:16,480 And again there's no biblical support for doing that. But the Crusades were 751 01:00:16,519 --> 01:00:23,119 in large measure of response to the violent expansion of Islam from the seventh century 752 01:00:23,159 --> 01:00:29,280 on. So you know, there's some political there's some geopolitical stuff in there 753 01:00:29,320 --> 01:00:32,639 as well. Killing in the name of Jesus though no, that that's never 754 01:00:32,800 --> 01:00:38,800 that's not in the Bible. It's never. It's not supported anywhere. Yeah, 755 01:00:38,880 --> 01:00:43,840 unfortunately, and the name of many religions, there has been a lot. 756 01:00:43,880 --> 01:00:49,639 I think Christianity certainly has its major share. Yeah. So one of 757 01:00:49,639 --> 01:00:52,559 the things I noticed you had some talking points that you sent my way. 758 01:00:53,360 --> 01:00:57,400 But before that, there is a question in chat someone wanted me to get 759 01:00:57,440 --> 01:01:00,800 to actually was a caller. A second question by him, and he wanted 760 01:01:00,840 --> 01:01:07,880 to know what your thoughts on ets holding religion or dogma so high as humans 761 01:01:07,920 --> 01:01:09,920 too. Do you think that's a possibility. First of all, you already 762 01:01:09,920 --> 01:01:14,559 said you don't believe there is ets, right, but if there were less 763 01:01:14,639 --> 01:01:19,960 hypothetically, if there were ets, well yeah, Like politicians, I don't 764 01:01:19,960 --> 01:01:23,400 like to answer hypotheticals because they always come back to bite you. But but 765 01:01:23,800 --> 01:01:30,480 let me say this. One of the things that we hear from from contacts. 766 01:01:30,159 --> 01:01:36,280 We often hear messages from contacts that have religious themes. And that's one 767 01:01:36,320 --> 01:01:38,440 of the things that we explored in the book. In fact, I'd make 768 01:01:38,480 --> 01:01:44,760 the case in the book and Josh as well. You know, Josh did 769 01:01:45,000 --> 01:01:50,360 more of the more recent stuff. Looking at the wiki leaks release of John 770 01:01:50,400 --> 01:01:58,039 Podesta's emails between the Apollo astronaut doctor Edgar Mitchell and Podesta, who was Hillary 771 01:01:58,039 --> 01:02:02,760 Clinton's campaign share, trying to make contact with Barack Obama, and the reason 772 01:02:04,039 --> 01:02:09,360 Mitchell wanted to contact the president was to pass along offers from what he called 773 01:02:09,800 --> 01:02:17,599 extraterrestrials from the contiguous Universe, a neighboring universe again the extra dimensional hypothesis apparently 774 01:02:17,639 --> 01:02:23,719 in view there and doctor Mitchell, as the co founder the Institute of Noetic 775 01:02:23,800 --> 01:02:31,159 sciences has a long history in looking for scientific tools to try to understand the 776 01:02:31,199 --> 01:02:38,039 supernatural realm. So for him this was a spiritual quest as well as a 777 01:02:38,079 --> 01:02:46,519 scientific quest. And the messages that he was receiving from these entities, and 778 01:02:46,559 --> 01:02:50,719 I'm not and I believe he was hearing from something. I just don't think 779 01:02:50,760 --> 01:02:55,400 they were what he thinks they were, had some spiritual and religious overtones. 780 01:02:55,440 --> 01:03:00,320 One group that he in fact called celestials. Well, celestials is a word 781 01:03:00,320 --> 01:03:08,719 that shows up in the New Testament, where some Gnostic believers were criticized by 782 01:03:08,760 --> 01:03:16,920 both Peter and Jude in their letters for blaspheming the celestial ones. So what 783 01:03:16,960 --> 01:03:21,480 are we talking about here? Are we talking about angelic beings? Possibly? 784 01:03:22,199 --> 01:03:27,840 Could it be that doctor Mitchell was talking about angelic beings? Certainly his colleague 785 01:03:27,920 --> 01:03:35,360 Terry Maine thought so. But are they loyal to God? And if so, 786 01:03:35,519 --> 01:03:39,639 which God? My previous book, The Great Inception, I make the 787 01:03:39,679 --> 01:03:44,920 case that the gods, small g gods at the Old Testament, such as 788 01:03:44,960 --> 01:03:49,880 Molech, kimash Dagon, Ashura, Bail, etc. We're real entities, 789 01:03:50,079 --> 01:03:52,280 fallen angels, if you will, But God's nonetheless God in the Bible calls 790 01:03:52,280 --> 01:03:58,519 them gods. So we're dealing with a supernatural realm, of spiritual realm that's 791 01:03:58,519 --> 01:04:01,519 more heavily populated than most of us have been taught to, which kind of 792 01:04:02,760 --> 01:04:06,159 help doesn't help us when it comes try when it comes to trying to understand 793 01:04:08,119 --> 01:04:11,679 what doctor Mitchell was talking about and what other contents have been talking about. 794 01:04:12,719 --> 01:04:16,000 But we hear from other contacts, who hear from groups that identify themselves as 795 01:04:16,000 --> 01:04:20,800 things like the Ashtar Command or you know, going back to Helena Blobotsky, 796 01:04:20,639 --> 01:04:27,079 the Great White Brotherhood, the Masters of Ascended Wisdom, entities intelligences that live 797 01:04:28,239 --> 01:04:30,559 outside the Solar System or at least off planet, that have come from other 798 01:04:30,599 --> 01:04:40,039 worlds, and they very often are bringing messages about how mankind is to evolve 799 01:04:40,679 --> 01:04:44,119 and that they're there to offer us their help in so doing. Certain that's 800 01:04:44,119 --> 01:04:46,920 what doctor doctor Mitchell believed, that there were tools and technologies that they were 801 01:04:46,960 --> 01:04:49,880 willing to offer us, such as zero point energy if we could show that 802 01:04:49,920 --> 01:04:55,559 we would not be violent and take our violent ways out into the into the 803 01:04:56,199 --> 01:05:03,159 universe. So there are often messages from these entities that deal with matters that 804 01:05:04,079 --> 01:05:11,039 we can call spiritual, and yet they're often contradictory. Even their points of 805 01:05:11,039 --> 01:05:15,480 origin are contradictory. They seem to or originate from from different places from contact 806 01:05:15,519 --> 01:05:19,599 DA, contact D. And one of the things I mentioned in the book 807 01:05:20,159 --> 01:05:30,559 is that when you look at the the theory itself of ancient astronauts and ancient 808 01:05:30,599 --> 01:05:39,320 aliens, you can draw you can see that the inspiration for the hypothesis that 809 01:05:39,480 --> 01:05:45,280 the gods of the ancient world or the angels of the ancient world were nothing 810 01:05:45,320 --> 01:05:50,239 more than visitors from other worlds with far superior technology comes right out of the 811 01:05:50,280 --> 01:05:58,639 occult teachings of the nineteenth century of Helena Pulaski and Alistair Crowley. Right, 812 01:06:00,079 --> 01:06:02,639 Yeah, I did see a little bit of that in your book. I 813 01:06:02,719 --> 01:06:09,079 was reading that. Here's here's an interesting question in the chat um, say 814 01:06:09,239 --> 01:06:15,880 ets were proven that they did exist, and you mentioned earlier that you could 815 01:06:15,920 --> 01:06:20,039 still keep your faith sure the second part of the question, how then would 816 01:06:20,119 --> 01:06:26,519 you reconcile the Crucifixion and resurrection with that? In other words, do you 817 01:06:26,559 --> 01:06:32,840 think that they would happen on other worlds? Also, in other words, 818 01:06:33,039 --> 01:06:36,639 why would we if if if ets are out there and there's like billions of 819 01:06:36,679 --> 01:06:43,480 planets with ets etis as you call them. Um, does each world have 820 01:06:43,599 --> 01:06:46,519 its own Jesus and crucifixion and resurrection? Well, you know, obviously we 821 01:06:46,599 --> 01:06:48,679 have no way to know that answer. I mean, the Bible doesn't tell 822 01:06:48,719 --> 01:06:56,320 us, and there's no solid evidence one way or the other that that exists 823 01:06:56,320 --> 01:06:59,440 anywhere else. I mean, that is an interesting thought problem, and it's 824 01:06:59,440 --> 01:07:03,480 one that theologians have wrestled with, believe it or not, for well centuries. 825 01:07:03,519 --> 01:07:06,119 I mean, if there were ets on another planet, would they have 826 01:07:06,199 --> 01:07:09,760 to have their own savior? Would Jesus have to die again and again and 827 01:07:09,800 --> 01:07:13,199 again for all of it? Don't know. That's why I tend to believe 828 01:07:13,199 --> 01:07:15,039 that if that were the case, God probably would have told us in his 829 01:07:15,079 --> 01:07:19,400 word. And that's why I don't personally believe we are ever going to see 830 01:07:19,800 --> 01:07:26,159 a true disclosure movement. And I should point out that the website for the 831 01:07:26,159 --> 01:07:29,480 book by the Way, where we've got an offer on the book and a 832 01:07:29,559 --> 01:07:32,480 variety of other products over three hundred dollars worth of video and book product for 833 01:07:32,559 --> 01:07:36,559 just thirty nine dollars, is official disclosure dot com. So if you go 834 01:07:36,599 --> 01:07:43,400 there, it's cheaper than Amazon Official disclosure dot Com. I don't think we're 835 01:07:43,400 --> 01:07:47,480 going to see official disclosure because I don't think there's anything officially to disclose. 836 01:07:48,880 --> 01:07:51,199 And I approached this a couple of ways, And first of all, I 837 01:07:51,199 --> 01:08:01,960 don't think we've got hard evidence of actual, confirmable extraterrestrial presence on the planet. 838 01:08:02,440 --> 01:08:09,519 Secondly, I think that if and again I will say that Josh and 839 01:08:09,559 --> 01:08:15,039 I do conclude that we have been visited by inhuman entities for literally thousands of 840 01:08:15,119 --> 01:08:17,600 years. But again, if we look at it from the standpoint of the 841 01:08:17,640 --> 01:08:25,079 extra dimensional hypothesis, well then we're talking about the possibility that these entities are 842 01:08:25,119 --> 01:08:33,560 the fallen angels that the Bible tells us about. If the promise of official 843 01:08:33,560 --> 01:08:40,119 disclosure right around the corner is of any use to these rebels against the Creator, 844 01:08:41,119 --> 01:08:45,840 then I think they're going to get more use out of that promise by 845 01:08:45,920 --> 01:08:47,680 keeping that carrot out in front of the horse and never letting the horse catch 846 01:08:47,760 --> 01:08:53,359 up to it. It's like when you go see a monster film and they 847 01:08:53,439 --> 01:08:58,520 reveal the monster too soon, it loses its impact. You know, if 848 01:08:58,560 --> 01:09:01,039 the monster is always just off screen, just you know, the shadow, 849 01:09:02,600 --> 01:09:10,399 just you know, the anticipation is kept up far longer into the film. 850 01:09:10,880 --> 01:09:15,920 I think the promise of official disclosure is more useful. And again this is 851 01:09:15,520 --> 01:09:19,840 my hypothesis as a as a Christian, but I think it's more useful to 852 01:09:19,880 --> 01:09:26,039 these entities that have been visiting Earth than actually revealing what they've got, because 853 01:09:26,399 --> 01:09:32,880 once we saw the actual evidence, I don't think we'd be as impressed as 854 01:09:32,920 --> 01:09:38,640 some folks think we would be. Well, you know, there may be 855 01:09:39,399 --> 01:09:45,640 it may be a letdown to some, but it would really depend on in 856 01:09:45,720 --> 01:09:48,600 my opinion, this is my opinion. I guess it really depend on what 857 01:09:48,680 --> 01:09:53,760 type of communication we had with whatever they are. You know, in other 858 01:09:53,800 --> 01:09:58,840 words, do they know something that we don't know about? The three questions 859 01:09:58,840 --> 01:10:00,760 you mentioned earlier? Sure, you know, where do we come from? 860 01:10:00,760 --> 01:10:03,840 Where do we go when we die? And why we hear? Or whatever? 861 01:10:03,880 --> 01:10:09,520 I can't remember, but um, those questions, yeah, those questions, 862 01:10:09,640 --> 01:10:12,960 Um, you know, if they actually knew or had an idea what 863 01:10:13,079 --> 01:10:17,199 those what those answers that were. We had a lot of contacts, sure, 864 01:10:17,359 --> 01:10:20,680 and a lot of contact. Das had said that they had been getting 865 01:10:20,720 --> 01:10:26,800 answers like that from these entities, and of course they never seem to track 866 01:10:26,840 --> 01:10:29,399 with the Bible, where I've not at least heard of any that track with 867 01:10:29,520 --> 01:10:35,039 the Bible in terms of, you know, the path to salvation. And 868 01:10:35,079 --> 01:10:38,920 again it comes down to that one you know, sticking point there where Jesus 869 01:10:38,960 --> 01:10:42,359 says, you know, he's the only way you don't get that message from 870 01:10:42,680 --> 01:10:48,880 contacts. So that's that's why I think it's it's more useful to them to 871 01:10:49,079 --> 01:10:56,079 keep dangling the promise of evidence out there without actually disclosing it. Um, 872 01:10:56,279 --> 01:11:00,680 there are people again who I am sure are hearing from entities. There are 873 01:11:00,680 --> 01:11:03,319 people I'm sure who are seeing things again. Josh and I make it clear 874 01:11:03,319 --> 01:11:09,079 in the book that we don't deny that things are going on, just based 875 01:11:09,119 --> 01:11:14,479 on the evidence. It may not be what people think it is. And 876 01:11:14,560 --> 01:11:16,800 I think it comes down to the ability to corroborate some of these things. 877 01:11:17,960 --> 01:11:24,119 You know, doctor Greer, for all of his sincerity, he has not 878 01:11:24,720 --> 01:11:31,399 produced anything yet that is on the order of say, a dead man coming 879 01:11:31,439 --> 01:11:34,119 back and appearing to you know, hundreds of people at a single time. 880 01:11:36,279 --> 01:11:42,640 You know, somebody that people saw in a very public way expire, give 881 01:11:42,680 --> 01:11:46,640 up the ghost and spend you know, three days in a tomb. So 882 01:11:47,199 --> 01:11:54,800 until something like that happens, we're depending on the testimony of generally speaking, 883 01:11:55,399 --> 01:11:57,880 I mean, and there are some examples, some some exceptions to this. 884 01:11:57,960 --> 01:12:00,960 For example, Fatima is one magical as another. Where you know, multitudes 885 01:12:00,960 --> 01:12:04,079 of people see, you know, similar things at the same time, But 886 01:12:04,279 --> 01:12:10,920 what comes to specific messages about who these visitors are and what they want to 887 01:12:10,960 --> 01:12:15,279 offer to us or what they want from us. We never hear from more 888 01:12:15,279 --> 01:12:20,000 than one or two at a time, and again often the stories are contradictory. 889 01:12:20,399 --> 01:12:26,159 The question I have is, if these entities are truly that advanced, 890 01:12:27,600 --> 01:12:30,439 why can't they reach out to more than one person at a time. Why 891 01:12:30,520 --> 01:12:35,439 is the contact almost always telepathic spiritual? In other words? You know, 892 01:12:35,880 --> 01:12:40,319 I mean, I'm using a webcam and I'm not certainly a technical genius. 893 01:12:40,640 --> 01:12:43,800 Why can't they use a webcam, send up a flare, you know, 894 01:12:45,279 --> 01:12:50,399 use this other phone. There was a case several years ago at the Caronado 895 01:12:50,800 --> 01:12:58,279 Hotel out in California where there's supposedly was several people that claim that they were 896 01:12:58,319 --> 01:13:02,159 all abducted at the same time, you know. And you know, I 897 01:13:02,760 --> 01:13:08,880 have been a lot of times on the fence about you know, abductions. 898 01:13:09,039 --> 01:13:14,560 I just don't know, But I also am open minded to the fact that 899 01:13:14,600 --> 01:13:19,239 it possibly is happening. It just seems to me that it's kind of bizarre 900 01:13:19,279 --> 01:13:25,439 that there'd be so many, you know, possibly millions of people coming through. 901 01:13:25,680 --> 01:13:29,000 And I think in your book somewhere you mentioned why would they keep coming 902 01:13:29,039 --> 01:13:35,279 back? Maybe that was about something else that was actually why the UFOs keep 903 01:13:35,359 --> 01:13:39,960 coming back? Is that right? Is that right? Well? The I 904 01:13:40,000 --> 01:13:43,560 think the question is, you know, why, if these are advanced entities 905 01:13:43,600 --> 01:13:49,399 and they're doing something to these contact these, many of whom are clearly traumatized 906 01:13:49,439 --> 01:13:55,079 by what they experience. If these are truly advanced entities, you would think 907 01:13:55,119 --> 01:13:59,680 that they would be able to detect the fact that they're inflicting trauma upon these 908 01:14:00,079 --> 01:14:06,079 these contacts and abductees. Certainly, when we abduct a lower life form for 909 01:14:08,520 --> 01:14:15,079 experimentation in a laboratory, okay, we can tell when we're inflicting trauma on 910 01:14:14,720 --> 01:14:18,840 a guinea pig or on a monkey, we can tell. That's why there 911 01:14:18,840 --> 01:14:25,319 are animal rights activists who get very upset about experimenting on animals. If these 912 01:14:25,640 --> 01:14:30,039 entities are as advanced as we would like to think they are, and clearly 913 01:14:30,119 --> 01:14:32,239 must be in order to you know, if they did in fact cross the 914 01:14:32,439 --> 01:14:36,760 vast gulf of space to get here. Why do they keep hurting people? 915 01:14:38,319 --> 01:14:44,399 Why do the people who've been through this experience find themselves well? As doctor 916 01:14:44,479 --> 01:14:49,640 John mac pointed out, you new study with so many points of correlation, 917 01:14:49,760 --> 01:14:56,039 something like more than two dozen, I think three dozen points of correlation between 918 01:14:56,039 --> 01:15:00,720 the accounts of abductees and the accounts of people who have been rich really abused. 919 01:15:01,800 --> 01:15:05,359 At some point you would think that they say, Okay, we're hurting 920 01:15:05,520 --> 01:15:10,680 these these things, and maybe they don't consider a centship, maybe they don't 921 01:15:10,720 --> 01:15:14,199 care. I don't know, but that again, that speaks to their nature 922 01:15:14,920 --> 01:15:18,520 and perhaps to their intent. And again one of the things I'm really influential 923 01:15:18,800 --> 01:15:23,239 reading Jack. I didn't talk to him very long at the Roswell conference, 924 01:15:23,279 --> 01:15:26,560 but I did read his book and listen to a number of interview cities that 925 01:15:26,600 --> 01:15:30,039 he's given. The Jack Brewer book, The Grays Have Been Framed is a 926 01:15:30,239 --> 01:15:36,880 really serious and hard look at the way abductees are treated in the UFO community, 927 01:15:38,600 --> 01:15:43,239 and it really changed my view, shifted my view on the abduction phenomena. 928 01:15:44,079 --> 01:15:45,520 I believe it's real. Again, I just don't think it is what 929 01:15:46,600 --> 01:15:55,520 most in the community think it is so. If so, you actually think 930 01:15:55,760 --> 01:16:00,840 that the disclosure going back to that, you actually think that as being controlled 931 01:16:00,960 --> 01:16:08,800 by whatever the entities are that are showing up here. Did I catch that 932 01:16:08,920 --> 01:16:12,119 right? Well to a degree. I mean again, that's I'm just trying 933 01:16:12,119 --> 01:16:15,319 to figure out. I have a hypothesis here. I think the belief that 934 01:16:15,319 --> 01:16:19,239 the government controls all this information and is just not wanting to let it out. 935 01:16:20,119 --> 01:16:24,920 I think that maybe getting the government a little too much credit for what 936 01:16:25,039 --> 01:16:30,479 it actually knows or what it thinks it knows. I think that this deception, 937 01:16:30,520 --> 01:16:38,000 and I'll use that word purposely, the deception that we're being visited by 938 01:16:38,000 --> 01:16:42,399 extra terrestrial entities, because again I don't think they're extra terrestrial. Extra dimensional, 939 01:16:42,479 --> 01:16:50,479 Yeah I can I can buy that is useful if we hypothesize extra dimensional 940 01:16:50,640 --> 01:16:56,880 entities that have a specific agenda in mind, and if these extra dimensional entities 941 01:16:56,920 --> 01:17:00,800 are what we as Christians would call fallen angels, well, what would their 942 01:17:00,840 --> 01:17:04,920 agenda be. It's to get people to believe anything but that one thing that 943 01:17:04,960 --> 01:17:08,760 I talked about earlier, which is, you know, faith in Jesus Christ. 944 01:17:09,279 --> 01:17:15,800 So they don't really care if you believe in Allah or in Zeta reticulans 945 01:17:15,960 --> 01:17:19,680 or whatever, or you know, as long as it's not the one thing, 946 01:17:20,359 --> 01:17:25,640 they're good. And I think as you look at the history of the 947 01:17:25,720 --> 01:17:30,640 UFO phenomenon and how the craft, the types of craft that witnesses have seen 948 01:17:30,279 --> 01:17:38,479 had changed over years to where it seems to match the culture, so that 949 01:17:38,520 --> 01:17:43,760 people seeing an unidentified flying ship would relate it to something that they were familiar 950 01:17:43,800 --> 01:17:46,560 with. The Texas UFO FLA from the eighteen nineties, so they were seeing 951 01:17:46,920 --> 01:17:53,399 airships flying airships. Alexander the Great in the fourth century BC saw flying shield 952 01:17:54,319 --> 01:17:59,079 the modern flying saucer phenomenon. When you look at the sketch that Kenneth Arnold 953 01:17:59,119 --> 01:18:01,880 drew and Kenneth Arnal sighting was really the first major sighting of the post war 954 01:18:01,960 --> 01:18:06,520 era. He didn't actually describe them as looking like saucers. They looked a 955 01:18:06,520 --> 01:18:14,000 little more like flying wings, which was a type of aircraft that the United 956 01:18:14,039 --> 01:18:19,119 States and Germany were experimenting with in the forties. In fact, it's the 957 01:18:19,159 --> 01:18:24,720 shape of some of our more modern aircraft that are flying today, stealth aircraft 958 01:18:24,720 --> 01:18:29,920 and stealth bomber. But he said that they moved like and I'm sure you 959 01:18:29,960 --> 01:18:32,720 know this Martin moved like saucers being skipped across the water, and hence we 960 01:18:32,800 --> 01:18:40,279 get flying saucers and suddenly everybody's seeing these round saucer shaped things. So I 961 01:18:40,319 --> 01:18:42,960 think the enemy, and I'll use that word as you know, capital e 962 01:18:43,119 --> 01:18:47,439 enemy, these fallen angels. And again this is my hypothesis, with the 963 01:18:47,439 --> 01:18:50,800 evidence that we have available to us, if they are in fact responsible for 964 01:18:50,840 --> 01:19:00,199 these extra dimensional incursions into our realm, choose whatever shape or form would prove 965 01:19:00,239 --> 01:19:08,800 most useful to their to their storyline, to promoting their narrative, which is 966 01:19:08,800 --> 01:19:15,000 that we're being visited by extra terrestrial intelligences who were in fact our creators, 967 01:19:16,079 --> 01:19:20,159 and now they're back to help us evolve to the next level of our development. 968 01:19:21,680 --> 01:19:26,840 Just to let you know, the Alexander the great you know, flying 969 01:19:26,880 --> 01:19:32,760 shield thing is can only be traced back to nineteen fifty nine when MacArthur wrote 970 01:19:32,760 --> 01:19:36,960 it in a book. So that has been kind of deconstructed. Yep, 971 01:19:38,039 --> 01:19:43,800 okay, But and there's there's also Mari Island. The last time I was 972 01:19:43,840 --> 01:19:47,119 talking that, I had all these people tell me that that has been totally 973 01:19:47,159 --> 01:19:51,640 debunked. I don't really know. I've never seen the debunking of Marie Island. 974 01:19:51,640 --> 01:19:57,279 But I would be interested if someone could email me that information. Where 975 01:19:57,319 --> 01:20:00,199 that information lies, I just don't know. I think it's really curious that 976 01:20:00,199 --> 01:20:03,239 Fred Krisman, who was one of the principal witnesses to the Maury Island incident, 977 01:20:03,520 --> 01:20:09,600 as a guy who shows up in connection with a number of other famous 978 01:20:09,680 --> 01:20:15,079 conspiracies over the of the in the US here over the last seventy years. 979 01:20:15,399 --> 01:20:19,439 He was a friend of the father of Michael Rikona Shooto, who was connected 980 01:20:19,479 --> 01:20:25,920 to the Promise software theft and the whole Octopus investigation or not if you're familiar 981 01:20:25,960 --> 01:20:30,600 with that, Okay, Michael Rikonda shoot is an interesting fellow. I think 982 01:20:30,640 --> 01:20:33,800 he's been in prison. May may just have been released within the last six 983 01:20:33,800 --> 01:20:38,640 months or so. But yeah, that's a whole story of nineteen eighty four 984 01:20:38,840 --> 01:20:42,800 eighty five, a company called Inslaw developed program called Promise pr O MS, 985 01:20:42,880 --> 01:20:46,000 which was case management software for I think anyway kind of shoot I'll figured out 986 01:20:46,000 --> 01:20:49,439 how to swipe it on behalf of some other folks. Anyway, Fred Christmas 987 01:20:49,439 --> 01:20:57,239 shows up there. Jim Garrison in the JFK investigation in New Orleans thought that 988 01:20:57,319 --> 01:21:00,439 Chrisman, who was flown the one of the tramps through the railiard. I 989 01:21:00,439 --> 01:21:11,239 think there's another bit of another quote from a book that I included in the 990 01:21:11,319 --> 01:21:15,199 data Earth stand Still about Chrisman, who was apparently the source for information that 991 01:21:15,359 --> 01:21:21,920 was turned into a UFO television series in the nineteen sixties. So Chrisman is 992 01:21:21,960 --> 01:21:26,680 one of those intelligence community guys who keeps showing up at a number of these 993 01:21:26,680 --> 01:21:30,279 stories, and he was right there at Moran. Isn't that something? Wow? 994 01:21:30,560 --> 01:21:35,359 Hey? M One thing I wanted to tell you is we have the 995 01:21:35,439 --> 01:21:40,520 images that you sent us over that we can load up as we're talking. 996 01:21:40,560 --> 01:21:45,840 So if you think the topic that you are speaking of represents that image, 997 01:21:45,840 --> 01:21:49,840 could you please tell us so the show producer can pop that up. Unfortunately, 998 01:21:49,840 --> 01:21:51,840 I never got a chance to look at the images, so I don't 999 01:21:51,880 --> 01:21:58,000 know what's there. Fallen angels. You mentioned that a couple of times in 1000 01:21:58,039 --> 01:22:05,159 the Bible, So other are possible things that people can connect to the Bible 1001 01:22:05,760 --> 01:22:12,079 when it comes to while we want to say extraterrestrial or you know, being 1002 01:22:12,159 --> 01:22:16,039 visited, is there any other parallels that you can think of when it comes 1003 01:22:16,079 --> 01:22:19,600 to the Bible. Well, one of the things we thought was really strange. 1004 01:22:19,640 --> 01:22:23,880 We started digging into the research here. Several years ago. I had 1005 01:22:23,880 --> 01:22:28,199 the opportunity to interview Peter Lavenda, who has researched the occult quite a bit, 1006 01:22:28,239 --> 01:22:30,520 but he's also done a lot of research into the space program and the 1007 01:22:30,560 --> 01:22:36,079 odd connections between you know, Nazis, UFOs and NASA. He wrote a 1008 01:22:36,119 --> 01:22:45,359 book called The Dark Lord in which he traced those strange connections between the fiction 1009 01:22:45,479 --> 01:22:49,600 of HP Lovecraft, who was the creator of the Cthulhu mythus back in the 1010 01:22:49,600 --> 01:22:56,119 twenties and thirties, and Alistair Crowley, who was the occultist who founded Telema, 1011 01:22:56,680 --> 01:23:03,560 probably the best known occultists in the twentieth century. Lavenda showed that when 1012 01:23:03,600 --> 01:23:06,600 he wrote The Cthulhu Mythos in nineteen twenty six, and he said there's no 1013 01:23:06,640 --> 01:23:12,760 evidence that Lovecraft knew of Crowley's work. He might have known or heard Crowley's 1014 01:23:12,840 --> 01:23:16,760 name, but he didn't know of Crowley's work. And Lovecraft was an atheist, 1015 01:23:16,800 --> 01:23:24,119 professing atheist, but he was tappy as a horror author to draw on 1016 01:23:24,319 --> 01:23:30,399 the teachings of occultists like Blovotsky. He mentions theosophy a number of times in 1017 01:23:30,399 --> 01:23:34,800 his stories and use it as grist for his mill. Well in nineteen twenty 1018 01:23:34,840 --> 01:23:38,720 six when he wrote The Call of Cthulhu, which is the story that he's 1019 01:23:38,720 --> 01:23:43,720 best known for and his best known monster off you will, Cthulhu was the 1020 01:23:45,960 --> 01:23:50,399 dead dead but not dead dead but sleeping dead but dreaming God who lies in 1021 01:23:50,439 --> 01:23:55,720 this ruined city at at the bottom of the ocean. And already you've got 1022 01:23:55,800 --> 01:23:58,840 a number of things there that come out of theosophy, you know, the 1023 01:23:59,079 --> 01:24:03,159 lost continents, megalithic architecture and stuff like that, created by a superior ancient 1024 01:24:03,239 --> 01:24:10,479 race that might return some day when the stars aligned correctly. Lavenda pointed out 1025 01:24:10,520 --> 01:24:14,840 that in the story, Lovecraft set the action back in nineteen oh seven, 1026 01:24:14,960 --> 01:24:19,279 on Halloween Night of nineteen or seven, in particular, when in the story 1027 01:24:19,520 --> 01:24:23,199 the police in New Orleans find the statue of this little you know, this 1028 01:24:23,239 --> 01:24:28,439 little statue of Cthulhu, who was the the star of the story. Well, 1029 01:24:28,640 --> 01:24:32,720 it just so happens that on Halloween night in nineteen o seven, Alistair 1030 01:24:32,720 --> 01:24:38,760 Crowley was channeling something, channeling and entity that was feeding him the teachings that 1031 01:24:38,800 --> 01:24:43,640 became some of the books of the Books of the Law for his religion Telema, 1032 01:24:44,079 --> 01:24:46,640 and in the course of writing on Halloween night. One of the things 1033 01:24:46,640 --> 01:24:54,680 that he wrote down in this channeling session was the name Tutulu sounds kind of 1034 01:24:54,720 --> 01:24:59,439 like Cthulhu, not exactly, but kind of like it. But Lavenda pointed 1035 01:24:59,439 --> 01:25:06,800 out that Crowley's personal secretary and successor, Kenneth Grant, who took Crowley's teachings 1036 01:25:06,840 --> 01:25:13,119 and developed it into what he called the Typhonian Order or the Typhonian Oto, 1037 01:25:14,800 --> 01:25:20,239 believed that Crowley just misheard the word and that what he should have heard was 1038 01:25:20,840 --> 01:25:28,079 Cutulu or Cuthulu. In other words, Grant and thus Lavenda, in his 1039 01:25:28,119 --> 01:25:32,800 research, concluded that Crowley and Lovecraft were channeling the same source. Even though 1040 01:25:32,840 --> 01:25:39,079 Lovecraft believed he was an atheist, they believed that he was hearing from the 1041 01:25:39,159 --> 01:25:45,399 same spirit entity that was speeding information to Alister Crowley. Well Kenneth Grant took 1042 01:25:45,479 --> 01:25:49,399 Crowley's teachings. As I said, Crowley believed he was welcoming in what he 1043 01:25:49,439 --> 01:25:53,720 called Eon of Horace, Horace, who was one of the Egyptian gods. 1044 01:25:54,920 --> 01:26:01,000 Grant developed his teachings and believed that what he was bringing in or inaugurating was 1045 01:26:01,279 --> 01:26:09,119 the eon of Set Well Set is the chaos god of Egypt, the god 1046 01:26:09,560 --> 01:26:15,720 the Greeks called Typhon, hence the Typhonian Order. So and it believed that 1047 01:26:16,840 --> 01:26:19,720 what he was hearing, or what he was what he had learned from the 1048 01:26:19,760 --> 01:26:26,079 teachings of Crowley, was what he called the serious set current or the set 1049 01:26:26,239 --> 01:26:29,479 serious current, in other words, something coming from the star system, serious, 1050 01:26:30,439 --> 01:26:34,920 from this entity, this chaos god, who was coming back to Earth 1051 01:26:35,000 --> 01:26:39,760 someday, just as Lovecraft wrote that these old gods would someday return when the 1052 01:26:39,800 --> 01:26:45,239 stars were right and reclaimed dominion over the Earth. And apparently Grant was very 1053 01:26:45,279 --> 01:26:48,159 disturbed about that and why he spent so much time researching and trying to develop 1054 01:26:48,199 --> 01:26:53,239 this form of chaos magic. Well, I don't know if your viewers listeners 1055 01:26:53,239 --> 01:26:56,800 are are familiar with chaos magic. It's certainly not something I'm very well educated 1056 01:26:56,840 --> 01:27:00,199 on. But apparently this is a bigger deal than I realized. And we 1057 01:27:00,399 --> 01:27:03,640 got into researching the book here it wasn't quite the direction we expected things to 1058 01:27:03,680 --> 01:27:11,399 go, but looking at this belief that and let me finish a point here 1059 01:27:11,439 --> 01:27:14,880 and come back to them why this is important. The reason this is important 1060 01:27:14,960 --> 01:27:17,520 was when you tie this together with the research of a gentleman named Jason Colobdo, 1061 01:27:18,199 --> 01:27:23,760 who was generally speaking as skeptic when it comes to the supernatural. He 1062 01:27:23,800 --> 01:27:30,039 shows that the fiction of HP. Lovecraft was very influential on the modern Ancient 1063 01:27:30,239 --> 01:27:34,720 Aliens movement, because after Lovecraft's death in nineteen thirty six, a number of 1064 01:27:34,880 --> 01:27:39,680 friends of Lovecraft kept writing in the same genre, using some of the creations 1065 01:27:39,680 --> 01:27:44,920 and creatures that Lovecraft invented, and Lovecraft's work was republished. It was sent 1066 01:27:44,920 --> 01:27:47,199 out to soldiers during World War Two to entertain them while they were out in 1067 01:27:47,239 --> 01:27:51,800 the trenches. The French, it turns out, in the nineteen fifties discovered 1068 01:27:51,920 --> 01:27:57,960 HP. Lovecraft and loved Lovecraft. His stuff was translated into French and republished 1069 01:27:58,000 --> 01:28:00,760 in a number of magazines there and a couple of science fiction magazine publishers named 1070 01:28:00,760 --> 01:28:06,920 Powells and Bergier, drawing on the work of Lovecraft and the themes that he 1071 01:28:08,000 --> 01:28:14,239 incorporated. It was cyclopean architecture, you know, megalithic structures that nobody could 1072 01:28:14,239 --> 01:28:18,720 explain, how they came to be old gods and the return of the return 1073 01:28:18,760 --> 01:28:25,000 of these old guys. Wrote a book called Morning of the Magicians, published 1074 01:28:25,000 --> 01:28:29,600 in about nineteen sixty which again explored a lot of these themes that we see 1075 01:28:29,680 --> 01:28:34,760 in ancient aliens today. Well. It was translated into English about sixty three, 1076 01:28:34,920 --> 01:28:41,560 sold pretty well, and like anything, when you create something new in 1077 01:28:42,680 --> 01:28:46,720 literature or movies or music that sells well, people pick up on it and 1078 01:28:46,960 --> 01:28:51,439 try to replicate it, copy it and sell their own well. One author 1079 01:28:51,479 --> 01:28:58,880 who picked up on Powells and Burgier's work inspired by Lovecraft, which Crowdy Successor 1080 01:28:58,920 --> 01:29:05,880 believed was just channel Alister Crowley, was a hotel operator in Switzerland by the 1081 01:29:05,960 --> 01:29:11,880 name of Eric Bondanikan and Bondanikin published Chariots of the Gods in nineteen seventy. 1082 01:29:11,880 --> 01:29:15,239 Powells and Burgier were not pleased because they felt that his work was a little 1083 01:29:15,239 --> 01:29:19,640 too close to theirs for coincidence. But be that as it may, Chariots 1084 01:29:19,640 --> 01:29:27,000 of the Gods become the best selling archaeology book in history, and Bondanikin has 1085 01:29:27,000 --> 01:29:30,560 gone on to sell something like sixty million copies of books around the world. 1086 01:29:31,319 --> 01:29:35,039 A couple of years after Chariots of the Gods, Zecharia Sitchen came along and 1087 01:29:35,039 --> 01:29:41,359 published The Twelfth Planet, which made the case that the Sumerian gods the Onunaki 1088 01:29:41,760 --> 01:29:45,279 were actually aliens who came to Earth and created humanity as a slave race. 1089 01:29:45,319 --> 01:29:51,479 Again, this tracks with some of the themes of Helena Blovotsky and Theosophy from 1090 01:29:51,479 --> 01:29:58,960 the eighteen eighties. So again you've got Blobotsky Crowley filtered through Lovecraft, repackaged 1091 01:29:59,000 --> 01:30:03,199 by Bonte anikin Incision, and now Ancient Aliens is in its twelfth season on 1092 01:30:03,199 --> 01:30:08,159 the History Channel. It is essentially warmed over occult teachings. In fact, 1093 01:30:08,159 --> 01:30:12,600 that's why there are some critics like Colobido who say Ancient Aliens is nothing more 1094 01:30:12,640 --> 01:30:20,680 than televangelism for Theosophy. So it's got religious overtones that I don't think people 1095 01:30:21,079 --> 01:30:30,319 who are intrigued by the idea or even aware of. I know a Zachariah 1096 01:30:30,359 --> 01:30:31,880 Stitch and I heard he was a very very nice man, but he had 1097 01:30:32,399 --> 01:30:41,000 he had some really far out things to say. And we've had Eric van 1098 01:30:41,039 --> 01:30:45,520 Danik canon a couple of times. Interesting man. I know, he's he's 1099 01:30:45,560 --> 01:30:50,720 had kind of a a little bit of a checkered pass on. A number 1100 01:30:50,720 --> 01:30:56,039 of people have sent me lengths and things. Still a nice man, you 1101 01:30:56,079 --> 01:30:59,479 know, seems to be a very fun person to talk to. I always 1102 01:30:59,520 --> 01:31:01,479 enjoy talking to him. Well, I didn't showing hiving a conversation with him. 1103 01:31:01,640 --> 01:31:04,399 I doubt that I would agree with him very much, but I certainly 1104 01:31:04,399 --> 01:31:09,960 don't want to be unkind to either him or to the late mister Sitchon, 1105 01:31:10,000 --> 01:31:13,800 who, yes, by all ac councils very nice. But I've been reading 1106 01:31:13,800 --> 01:31:15,760 a lot of Sumerian cosmology over the last couple of years. I'm not a 1107 01:31:15,880 --> 01:31:19,039 scholar in it, and I'm certainly not an expert in it, but I 1108 01:31:19,199 --> 01:31:27,239 have yet to see anything in any credential academic paper about what the Sumerians believed 1109 01:31:27,239 --> 01:31:30,720 about their gods that leads me to conclude that there was any hint that those 1110 01:31:30,800 --> 01:31:38,760 things were anything or thought to be anything other than supernatural beings. And our 1111 01:31:38,800 --> 01:31:42,279 friend doctor Michael Heiser, whose name I mentioned earlier, who can read the 1112 01:31:42,359 --> 01:31:46,680 Sumerian, has said that, you know, mister Sitchen just he either didn't 1113 01:31:46,760 --> 01:31:53,479 know what he was translating or because the words just don't say what he claimed 1114 01:31:53,479 --> 01:31:58,760 that they said. Right now, in your book you talk about Moufon, 1115 01:31:59,640 --> 01:32:06,560 and this is where you and I agree, and that is the fact that 1116 01:32:08,399 --> 01:32:15,079 the two thousand and seventeen you know, a symposium. Yeah, yeah, 1117 01:32:15,119 --> 01:32:18,399 I had some way way out fringy topics, and I think that was a 1118 01:32:18,479 --> 01:32:25,039 big mistake myself. I understand there's an entertainment value, but they you know, 1119 01:32:25,279 --> 01:32:29,279 it just muddies the water of people that are trying to figure this thing 1120 01:32:29,359 --> 01:32:34,560 out. So, um, not only that, let's talk about there's the 1121 01:32:36,079 --> 01:32:42,239 mof on Inner Circle. Yeah, and let's talk a little bit about that. 1122 01:32:42,640 --> 01:32:45,319 Um. And actually I think that's changed because I want to try to 1123 01:32:45,359 --> 01:32:48,359 find the website here today and could not find the listening of the Inner Circles. 1124 01:32:48,359 --> 01:32:51,000 So maybe I you know, the website has been updated and maybe the 1125 01:32:51,039 --> 01:32:54,359 circle has been changed. But I know this this came out just about the 1126 01:32:54,399 --> 01:33:00,800 time we went to Roswell last year, where there was a controversy about a 1127 01:33:00,880 --> 01:33:02,239 couple of things, and one of them I don't want to even get into 1128 01:33:02,239 --> 01:33:05,359 because I don't know enough of the backstory. It's about some personal beliefs of 1129 01:33:05,439 --> 01:33:11,800 one of the other members of the Inner Circle that had to do with just 1130 01:33:12,199 --> 01:33:14,720 yeah, an issue I don't want a cannon worms. I don't want to 1131 01:33:14,760 --> 01:33:17,760 open. But you talk about the racist remarks, yes, yeah, And 1132 01:33:17,840 --> 01:33:20,600 I don't know enough about that to say to make any comments on that. 1133 01:33:21,640 --> 01:33:26,760 But in the case of jay Z Knight, and you know, the Inner 1134 01:33:26,800 --> 01:33:30,239 Circle and move On at least, and that, in fact I put it. 1135 01:33:30,560 --> 01:33:33,760 That's one of the images I put in that it's up now right now, 1136 01:33:33,840 --> 01:33:39,800 okay. And I circled jay Z Knight because she is, or was, 1137 01:33:39,880 --> 01:33:43,159 at least at the time I took that, which was last July or 1138 01:33:43,159 --> 01:33:45,680 August, a member of the Inner Circle, which is sort of an advisory 1139 01:33:45,760 --> 01:33:51,560 council per move On, which builds itself as the world's leading organization for the 1140 01:33:51,640 --> 01:33:57,800 scientific investigation of unidentified flying objects. Well, there's no nice way to put 1141 01:33:57,880 --> 01:34:00,279 this, but jay Z Knight is a cult leader, and she claims to 1142 01:34:01,319 --> 01:34:08,439 channel a thirty six thousand year old warrior from the lost continent of Lemuria. 1143 01:34:09,079 --> 01:34:13,079 Now, again, Lemuria goes right back to Helena Blobotsky. That was part 1144 01:34:13,119 --> 01:34:16,159 of her teachings the origin of humanity. The root races came from this continent 1145 01:34:16,199 --> 01:34:20,039 of Lemuria, where the noble warriors of Lemuria had to do battle with the 1146 01:34:20,199 --> 01:34:27,000 evil wizards and sorcerers of Atlantis. Again, there's been no hard evidence that 1147 01:34:27,199 --> 01:34:31,479 either of those continents exist. In fact, Lemuria was only hypothesized eighteen sixty 1148 01:34:31,560 --> 01:34:41,239 six. What is it a paleontologist or who noticed that there were similar monkey 1149 01:34:41,319 --> 01:34:45,880 fossils in India and a Maticascar. Now, if you look at a globe 1150 01:34:45,920 --> 01:34:48,159 and you see that there's an awful lot of ocean between India and Meticascar. 1151 01:34:48,239 --> 01:34:54,159 So he was trying to figure out how you could get Lemur fossils small monkeys 1152 01:34:54,680 --> 01:34:58,319 that are almost identical in those two places. So hence there must have been 1153 01:34:58,319 --> 01:35:03,319 a lost continent somewhere in the Indian Ocean. Thus Lemuria that became part of 1154 01:35:03,520 --> 01:35:11,640 Lavotsky's religion. That's who Jay Z Knight channels as her source of spiritual wisdom, 1155 01:35:11,880 --> 01:35:15,079 Ranth of the Enlightened One, and somehow she was able to pay the 1156 01:35:15,159 --> 01:35:18,640 fee to become a member of the Inner Circle of Muffan. I can see 1157 01:35:19,119 --> 01:35:24,000 serious thousand dollars a five thousand dollars donation, Yeah, and I can I 1158 01:35:24,079 --> 01:35:29,920 can see how serious researchers into UFOs who would be a little a little upset 1159 01:35:29,960 --> 01:35:32,760 at that. I think it's I don't think it's a good idea at all. 1160 01:35:32,800 --> 01:35:39,680 Anytime anything like that happens, then you're putting some type of control in 1161 01:35:39,800 --> 01:35:47,199 the hands of someone that doesn't necessarily deserve it. And I listened to Kevin 1162 01:35:47,319 --> 01:35:51,720 Randall was doing a show for a short time, and here's one of the 1163 01:35:51,880 --> 01:35:56,279 articles that I read about that. Yeah, he interviewed Source of Permission. 1164 01:35:56,920 --> 01:36:03,119 Yes, he interviewed Jan Harson, and he he is m He basically asked 1165 01:36:03,199 --> 01:36:05,399 them flat out, why are you doing that? You know? I mean, 1166 01:36:05,479 --> 01:36:09,279 it's it's really you know, he called them on it, and I 1167 01:36:09,359 --> 01:36:15,479 think it's um I've I think I'm not a move on member right now. 1168 01:36:15,760 --> 01:36:19,159 I don't have you know, things against them, but I do think that 1169 01:36:19,279 --> 01:36:24,199 they have taken a few wrong turns. U Jan Harson's trying to do a 1170 01:36:24,279 --> 01:36:27,000 really good job. He's got a lot of pressure on his plate to bring 1171 01:36:27,119 --> 01:36:31,119 membership up. Membership is not it's only like thirty five U or something like 1172 01:36:31,239 --> 01:36:34,359 that. It's not a really big membership. So but when these people are 1173 01:36:34,399 --> 01:36:39,119 donating five thousand dollars to get into the inner circle, I just think that's 1174 01:36:39,199 --> 01:36:43,359 a I think that's taboo for any organization. Myself. Well, yeah, 1175 01:36:43,399 --> 01:36:45,640 I think that's that opens a kind of words. It's it's a dangerous practice. 1176 01:36:45,840 --> 01:36:50,199 And as you mentioned, there's some other controversy about that as well. 1177 01:36:50,239 --> 01:36:56,920 But especially when you've got somebody who's approaching topic this way from from her perspective, 1178 01:36:57,000 --> 01:37:00,199 that that really is a Clini knows the orderzation I belong to. We 1179 01:37:00,239 --> 01:37:05,279 certainly wouldn't want somebody on the board of directors who brings a worldview that would 1180 01:37:06,479 --> 01:37:13,399 call our work, that would be contrary to what we believe, but would 1181 01:37:13,399 --> 01:37:16,960 call our organization into into question in any way. So again, you know, 1182 01:37:17,359 --> 01:37:21,479 one of our friends, good friend Joe Jordan, was a is still 1183 01:37:21,720 --> 01:37:26,399 a director with MUFAN. He came out of the state of Florida. He's 1184 01:37:26,439 --> 01:37:30,880 now the national director for South Korea. But like me, like Josh, 1185 01:37:31,119 --> 01:37:35,840 he is a professing Christian, openly Christian, and what led him to his 1186 01:37:35,960 --> 01:37:43,640 Christian faith was his research, his investigations into the abduction phenomenon and found that, 1187 01:37:44,680 --> 01:37:49,680 to his surprise, there were a number of cases that other researchers had 1188 01:37:51,359 --> 01:37:56,600 basically not publicized or not told anyone about because they didn't know what to make 1189 01:37:56,640 --> 01:38:01,000 of the information, which was that the abductions could be stopped by people calling 1190 01:38:01,079 --> 01:38:05,880 on the name of Jesus. You know, if these were entities from another 1191 01:38:06,239 --> 01:38:13,399 world, one wonders why that would happening effect whatsoever. But if this was 1192 01:38:13,439 --> 01:38:17,720 a spiritual phenomenon, and in the Bible we see that the demons that Jesus 1193 01:38:17,800 --> 01:38:28,279 encountered were always subject to people giving them commands in his name, that well, 1194 01:38:28,359 --> 01:38:31,439 that is an interesting bit of evidence. And as he began to research, 1195 01:38:31,520 --> 01:38:34,079 he found more and more of these cases. And Joe, like Josh, 1196 01:38:34,800 --> 01:38:39,159 admits that at the time he began his investigations, he was a he 1197 01:38:39,359 --> 01:38:41,640 was a new ager. He said, you know, carry into crystals and 1198 01:38:42,359 --> 01:38:45,960 you know, doing all you know, the meditating and stuff as a like 1199 01:38:46,039 --> 01:38:49,880 a good new ager. And those are basically how Joe describes it now how 1200 01:38:49,880 --> 01:38:55,159 I would describe it. But but he says, the evidence just led him 1201 01:38:55,840 --> 01:38:59,159 in a different direction. And so you know, that's really what Josh and 1202 01:38:59,199 --> 01:39:00,239 I are saying. Let's just find all of the evidence where it leads. 1203 01:39:00,479 --> 01:39:05,640 And again, it may be that I'm wrong. Maybe extraterrestrials do exist and 1204 01:39:05,760 --> 01:39:10,279 that God decided it wasn't important for us to know and put it in the 1205 01:39:10,399 --> 01:39:13,079 Bible. I don't think that's the case, but you know, hey, 1206 01:39:13,159 --> 01:39:15,199 I could be wrong about that. But what I do know is that what 1207 01:39:15,239 --> 01:39:20,600 the Bible tells me is that me you everyone watching this assuming you're human, 1208 01:39:21,359 --> 01:39:26,359 created in God's image, created in God's image, and that status will not 1209 01:39:26,520 --> 01:39:33,720 change regardless, regardless of what happens in the future. Interesting, I like 1210 01:39:33,920 --> 01:39:39,640 talking to people like you because, you know, just because one of the 1211 01:39:39,680 --> 01:39:45,079 reasons I do this show is that I just like to hear people's opinions of 1212 01:39:45,159 --> 01:39:47,439 what they think is going on. And this is certainly one that I have 1213 01:39:47,640 --> 01:39:51,279 not heard before. I'm glad to hear that, because we were hoping that 1214 01:39:51,399 --> 01:39:58,960 that would be the case. There was a a talking point you had here 1215 01:39:59,319 --> 01:40:03,279 about what wiki leaks revealed about the role of the pope and the previous US 1216 01:40:03,359 --> 01:40:09,680 presidents. I didn't know there was something in those leaked emails that had directly 1217 01:40:09,800 --> 01:40:14,680 to do with that. There was something you found, Well, this is 1218 01:40:14,680 --> 01:40:17,279 actually that's a section of the book that Josh really dug into. So I 1219 01:40:17,319 --> 01:40:20,920 would prefer it if Josh, you know, if media comp hadn't shut that, 1220 01:40:21,000 --> 01:40:24,560 if Russia I hadn't shut up Josh tonight, that's probably what they were 1221 01:40:24,600 --> 01:40:29,399 trying to stop, because he's better educated on that. There was another point 1222 01:40:29,840 --> 01:40:32,039 that it just occurred to me. I never got back to when I was 1223 01:40:32,079 --> 01:40:39,600 talking about the whole Lulu bandanikin thing. And this gets back to the chaos 1224 01:40:39,720 --> 01:40:42,039 magic aspect of it. If you don't mind, if I can just elucid 1225 01:40:42,880 --> 01:40:49,279 because this comes back to the Bible in GENESISI one, verse two. There 1226 01:40:49,439 --> 01:40:55,399 is a verse there, and let me bring it up here electronically, because 1227 01:40:55,399 --> 01:41:00,000 it deals with an entity that this Kenneth Grant, who was Alister Early's successor, 1228 01:41:02,199 --> 01:41:04,960 named as the God that he believed was reaching out to try to contact 1229 01:41:05,039 --> 01:41:14,479 him, this typhon or set, this God of chaos, who he believed 1230 01:41:14,479 --> 01:41:16,960 we needed to get right with because he was coming back someday. And actually 1231 01:41:17,039 --> 01:41:21,039 this is an entity that's mentioned in the Bible, but it's just another one 1232 01:41:21,119 --> 01:41:28,239 that we never hear about it the church because you start digging into theology, 1233 01:41:28,279 --> 01:41:31,239 you start digging into the original Hebrew text and it gets a little complex. 1234 01:41:32,039 --> 01:41:35,760 But you know, I would suggest when you're dealing with matters of eternal consequence, 1235 01:41:35,920 --> 01:41:40,079 you know, like heaven and Hell, maybe it's worth our time to 1236 01:41:40,159 --> 01:41:43,920 study it. Anyway. In the beginning, God created the heavens in the 1237 01:41:44,000 --> 01:41:46,359 earth, the earth was without form and void, and darkness was over the 1238 01:41:46,439 --> 01:41:51,159 face of the deep. The word translated deep there is a Hebrew word to 1239 01:41:51,279 --> 01:41:57,840 home. That word to home is a cognate that means same word different language 1240 01:41:57,840 --> 01:42:03,439 with the Nkadian word tempt. That word ten Tun was the name of the 1241 01:42:04,239 --> 01:42:13,079 chaos dragon of Sumerian mythology called Tiamat, and this chaos dragon or the chaos 1242 01:42:13,359 --> 01:42:16,960 serpent shows up in a number of ancient Near Eastern religions. In the Bible, 1243 01:42:17,000 --> 01:42:20,399 it's called Leviathan. The Canaanites had a name for it. They called 1244 01:42:20,439 --> 01:42:26,119 it Lo Tan you had set and Typhon. Typhon was the Greek version of 1245 01:42:26,199 --> 01:42:31,319 this chaos monster. But the theme was the same in all of these ancient 1246 01:42:31,399 --> 01:42:36,359 religions that a warrior god. In the Bible, it's Yahweh. The Sumerians 1247 01:42:36,399 --> 01:42:41,359 it was first end Lil, and then later it was Marduk. When the 1248 01:42:41,399 --> 01:42:46,600 Babylonians took over. In the Canaanite mythology, it was Bail, and then 1249 01:42:46,720 --> 01:42:51,920 Zeus in the Greek myth had to defeat the chaos monster Typhon in order to 1250 01:42:53,399 --> 01:42:58,880 establish order out of chaos, if you will. But this theme was that 1251 01:42:59,399 --> 01:43:02,560 chaos was represented by the ocean and especially sea monster. Do you see it 1252 01:43:02,640 --> 01:43:05,159 mentioned a few times in the Bible, there are times when the ocean is 1253 01:43:05,199 --> 01:43:13,399 clearly used as a symbol for chaos or disorder. But we see that even 1254 01:43:13,479 --> 01:43:19,119 though this chaos entity is defeated by the second verse of the Bible, it's 1255 01:43:19,159 --> 01:43:24,279 not dead. I mean, it's supernatural. It's not dead yet. But 1256 01:43:24,439 --> 01:43:27,479 there's an interesting reference right at the end of the Bible in the second to 1257 01:43:27,600 --> 01:43:32,000 last chapter, Revelation chapter twenty one. And of course, now our internet 1258 01:43:32,000 --> 01:43:36,479 is getting slow. The apostle John in Revelation twenty one rights, then I 1259 01:43:36,560 --> 01:43:40,760 saw a new Heaven and a new Earth, for the first heaven and the 1260 01:43:40,880 --> 01:43:44,079 first Earth had passed away. This is a prophecy of something in the future, 1261 01:43:44,439 --> 01:43:46,119 a new Heaven and a new Earth, because the first one passed away. 1262 01:43:46,399 --> 01:43:53,119 But then he adds, and the sea was no more. The sea 1263 01:43:53,239 --> 01:43:55,840 was no more. Well, obviously the first Heaven the first Earth passed away. 1264 01:43:55,920 --> 01:43:59,760 The sea would have passed away with the first Earth, right the John 1265 01:44:00,439 --> 01:44:04,800 separately, because again in the Bible and in the ancient Near East for thousands 1266 01:44:04,840 --> 01:44:10,479 of years, the sea represented chaos. Was this chaos entity. In fact, 1267 01:44:11,159 --> 01:44:14,359 in the Canaanite myth, their chief god Bail, who was the storm 1268 01:44:14,439 --> 01:44:19,279 god, had to fight against the god of the sea called Yam and defeat 1269 01:44:19,319 --> 01:44:26,079 it in order to claim his kingship over the gods. The Bible reflects this 1270 01:44:27,359 --> 01:44:30,800 Genesis one, verse two, spirit of God hovering over the face of the 1271 01:44:30,880 --> 01:44:34,359 deep, almost as though it was containing it and keeping it restrained. But 1272 01:44:34,479 --> 01:44:39,479 it isn't until Revelation twenty one knew Heaven new Earth, and the sea chaos 1273 01:44:39,920 --> 01:44:45,399 was no more. Kenneth Grant believes that this chaos monster set or Typhon, 1274 01:44:46,119 --> 01:44:48,920 is what's coming back, and he developed his whole magical system about it. 1275 01:44:49,239 --> 01:44:55,039 Do a search on the web if you're feeling brave for chaos magic. You'll 1276 01:44:55,079 --> 01:45:00,279 see a lot of information out there about how to practice it and what's good 1277 01:45:00,279 --> 01:45:03,119 for today. I don't recommend dabbling in it, obviously as a Christian. 1278 01:45:03,359 --> 01:45:08,359 I'm just telling you that it's out there. It's a thing. But the 1279 01:45:09,159 --> 01:45:13,840 thing that I find really curious about this is that the search for extraterrestrial intelligence, 1280 01:45:14,159 --> 01:45:16,840 which is the search for signals coming from outer space. The acronym Seti 1281 01:45:18,039 --> 01:45:23,319 is the Egyptian word that means man of set, man of the chaos god, 1282 01:45:24,880 --> 01:45:29,680 and Richard Greer's organization, the Center for the Study of extra Terrestrial Intelligence 1283 01:45:30,520 --> 01:45:36,560 c SET. Likewise Man of Set, probably a coincidence. Probably fine, 1284 01:45:38,119 --> 01:45:41,640 Oh, I don't know. So the Bible, you know, you were 1285 01:45:41,680 --> 01:45:45,800 talking about translation. You know, it was I guess from Hebrew to Greek 1286 01:45:45,000 --> 01:45:49,760 sometime around the third century BC, and then the Dead Sea scrolls were found. 1287 01:45:50,880 --> 01:45:58,560 But the translation of the Bible. Then there's King James Bible, and 1288 01:45:58,720 --> 01:46:03,119 then there's them I don't know what you would call it, the when they 1289 01:46:03,279 --> 01:46:10,159 changed everything everything to yao, thou shalt and all that stuff. You know, 1290 01:46:10,239 --> 01:46:13,600 there's been many translations, is what I'm getting at. How do we 1291 01:46:13,760 --> 01:46:17,319 know how? First of all, you know this is of course is a 1292 01:46:17,359 --> 01:46:21,920 show about UFOs, But it's still interesting to me to ask you this question. 1293 01:46:23,279 --> 01:46:26,760 How do we know what you're reading today in the Bible? Is anything 1294 01:46:27,319 --> 01:46:31,960 like? It's kind of like the game Telephone. What started out as that's 1295 01:46:32,000 --> 01:46:35,239 a really excellent question, and it gets back to what I said earlier that 1296 01:46:35,520 --> 01:46:41,239 there are more old copies of texts for the Bible than there is for anything 1297 01:46:41,279 --> 01:46:46,079 else out of the ancient world. The oldest complete copy of the book probably 1298 01:46:46,119 --> 01:46:48,359 goes back about three twenty six And you think, okay, well that's three 1299 01:46:48,439 --> 01:46:51,640 hundred years after Jesus died. That's not very new. Well yeah, okay, 1300 01:46:53,079 --> 01:46:57,800 but the oldest copy that we have rather, yeah, the oldest copy 1301 01:46:57,840 --> 01:47:00,840 of anything that we've got from say Julius Caesar, who lived about fifty years 1302 01:47:00,880 --> 01:47:08,000 before Jesus of Nazareth. Date's about a thousand BC. Are thousand a d. 1303 01:47:08,239 --> 01:47:11,720 Rather, So you've got a thousand years But nobody questions that Julius Caesar 1304 01:47:11,800 --> 01:47:16,159 actually wrote his history of how he defeated the Celtic tribes in Gaul. There 1305 01:47:16,199 --> 01:47:19,960 are other examples like that. But the thing that really got it for me 1306 01:47:20,159 --> 01:47:26,399 is this when you look at the letters of the Early Church Fathers, and 1307 01:47:26,560 --> 01:47:29,920 we're talking about before the Council of Nicea, because I know there are a 1308 01:47:29,920 --> 01:47:33,000 lot of people who think, oh, yeah, Constantine the Great basically took 1309 01:47:33,119 --> 01:47:36,159 the books that he want and throw everything else out at the Council of Nicea. 1310 01:47:36,279 --> 01:47:41,760 Well, that's actually not true. But setting that aside, when you 1311 01:47:41,880 --> 01:47:46,000 take the letters of the Early Church Fathers from the second early second through early 1312 01:47:46,119 --> 01:47:48,840 third century, so about from one hundred a d. To the early two 1313 01:47:48,920 --> 01:47:53,520 hundreds, the letters that they wrote back and forth, they quoted so much 1314 01:47:53,880 --> 01:47:59,479 scripture new Testament Scripture New Testament Scripture, that you could reconstruct the entire New 1315 01:47:59,560 --> 01:48:03,399 Testament from their writings except for about fifteen verses, and none of those fifteen 1316 01:48:03,479 --> 01:48:08,840 verses have anything to do with doctrine. In other words, Jesus died in 1317 01:48:08,920 --> 01:48:11,880 the ground three days, rose again from the dead, died for our sins. 1318 01:48:12,199 --> 01:48:15,640 None of that was in those fifteen missing verses. So you can use 1319 01:48:15,840 --> 01:48:21,000 their letters as a cross check on what we got later to see if stuff 1320 01:48:21,039 --> 01:48:24,640 has changed. And scholars who have done this, they found that the Bible 1321 01:48:24,760 --> 01:48:29,039 is over ninety eight percent the New Testament over ninety eight percent unchanged, and 1322 01:48:29,159 --> 01:48:30,720 none of those two and most of those two percent changes are like you know, 1323 01:48:31,640 --> 01:48:38,319 grammatical things or or you know, missing diacritical marks of apostrophees and commas 1324 01:48:38,359 --> 01:48:44,119 and things. So again they can really, we really can know the texts, 1325 01:48:44,479 --> 01:48:47,960 texts that we have been accurately preserved for the last two thousand years. 1326 01:48:50,159 --> 01:48:58,520 Interesting, Yeah, but how you know, getting back to the languages, 1327 01:48:58,720 --> 01:49:01,760 you know, I know that that's always tough to translate wondering whige to another 1328 01:49:02,119 --> 01:49:05,399 you know, I mean, but we get the gist of it is in 1329 01:49:05,600 --> 01:49:10,960 the stories of the stories which I think are kind of some of them are 1330 01:49:11,039 --> 01:49:17,000 pretty far out there. And then you know, for God asking Abraham to 1331 01:49:17,279 --> 01:49:21,680 sacrifice his son, that is one thing I just I don't get. I 1332 01:49:21,720 --> 01:49:24,760 don't think there would be a god like that. I don't get that. 1333 01:49:25,359 --> 01:49:28,800 Well, that's interesting you mentioned it, because that's actually an area of study. 1334 01:49:28,800 --> 01:49:30,680 An that you mentioned that I'm going to have to include them in the 1335 01:49:30,760 --> 01:49:35,720 forthcoming book. In the culture from which Abraham emerged, that was actually not 1336 01:49:35,920 --> 01:49:43,279 uncommon. That was not uncommon. Now again we have to assume that there 1337 01:49:43,279 --> 01:49:47,359 were other small g gods, fallen angels if you prefer, who were whispering 1338 01:49:47,439 --> 01:49:50,800 things in other ears. But when you look at the religion of the ancient 1339 01:49:50,840 --> 01:49:57,319 world, the amor Rights in particular, who were a people known the scholars 1340 01:49:57,520 --> 01:50:00,319 for you last couple hundred years, But in days of Abraham, they controlled 1341 01:50:00,359 --> 01:50:04,000 the entire ancient nearest everything on a map today that's Iraq, Syria, Jordan, 1342 01:50:04,159 --> 01:50:08,880 Israel, Lebanon, even northern Egypt. I mean, when the Israelites 1343 01:50:08,920 --> 01:50:12,359 were in Egypt, they weren't Egyptians ruling northern Egypt. They were amor Rights. 1344 01:50:12,560 --> 01:50:17,359 They were Semitic speaking people like the Hebrews, and they were really into 1345 01:50:17,960 --> 01:50:25,840 venerating dead ancestors and sacrificing children if need be, in order to ensure the 1346 01:50:25,920 --> 01:50:30,359 favor of their gods. In fact, in May, my wife and I 1347 01:50:30,479 --> 01:50:33,720 and a group of about one hundred people are touring Israel, Jordan and then 1348 01:50:33,800 --> 01:50:38,119 going to Roman Sardinia with a smaller group. And one of the things we'll 1349 01:50:38,119 --> 01:50:41,840 be looking at are the toe FETs of the Phoenicians, who were the descendants 1350 01:50:41,840 --> 01:50:45,039 of the Amorrits, where they sacrificed their children to their gods. So this 1351 01:50:45,199 --> 01:50:47,680 was not an unknown thing. But when God said okay, do this, 1352 01:50:48,359 --> 01:50:50,760 okay, testing Abraham's faith, but then he stopped him and say, okay, 1353 01:50:50,920 --> 01:50:55,199 stop, this is not who I am. Look over here there's a 1354 01:50:55,279 --> 01:51:01,199 ram cotton the thicket sacrifice that instead. But yeah, shout sacrifice, adult 1355 01:51:01,239 --> 01:51:09,760 sacrifice not an uncommon thing in the ancient world. Yeah, not good either. 1356 01:51:10,399 --> 01:51:15,439 So your next books, we talked a little bit just before the start 1357 01:51:15,439 --> 01:51:18,439 of the show, is kind of going. This trip that you're going to 1358 01:51:18,479 --> 01:51:24,920 be making sounds absolutely fantastic, And is that in part of research for this 1359 01:51:25,079 --> 01:51:28,439 book you have and go ahead and announce what that's going to be. Well, 1360 01:51:28,520 --> 01:51:31,319 we'll be in Israel from May six through the sixteenth, and then heading 1361 01:51:31,840 --> 01:51:34,760 from there to Jordan for a few days. We'll get to see mountain Ebo, 1362 01:51:34,840 --> 01:51:41,520 where Moses looked across the Jordan River to see the promised land. We'll 1363 01:51:41,560 --> 01:51:45,000 also get to see some of those Dolmans, which are like good miniature stone 1364 01:51:45,039 --> 01:51:48,199 hinges. Yes, I saw them in Russia. They're really interesting. They 1365 01:51:48,239 --> 01:51:51,279 don't even know how old they are because they're made of stone. They could 1366 01:51:51,319 --> 01:51:55,840 be twenty five thousand years old. They have no idea exactly. Most scholars 1367 01:51:55,880 --> 01:51:58,640 in the ancient year East along the Jordan River bound they put into a three 1368 01:51:58,680 --> 01:52:00,840 thousand years or so, which is just four Abraham came along three or four 1369 01:52:00,880 --> 01:52:04,680 thousand years or so. But still we'll get a chance to see those, 1370 01:52:04,720 --> 01:52:08,479 and it is significant. I don't want to take too much time here, 1371 01:52:08,520 --> 01:52:12,720 but it ties in with the prophecy of God, and may God there's a 1372 01:52:13,000 --> 01:52:18,239 curious reference to something called the Valley at the Travelers in the prophecy of that 1373 01:52:18,439 --> 01:52:23,680 war that relates to the Dolmans. But then we'll be going on the nineteenth 1374 01:52:23,800 --> 01:52:26,600 of May to Rome and then to Sardinians, so we'll get the tour of 1375 01:52:26,600 --> 01:52:30,239 the Vatican. We'll also see the historical sites of Rome and then in Sardinia, 1376 01:52:30,279 --> 01:52:33,920 where there are a number of tofats, which are ritual sites where children 1377 01:52:33,960 --> 01:52:40,119 were sacrificed and buried to their god bail Hammon, whose scholars equated with the 1378 01:52:40,159 --> 01:52:46,039 Greek god Chronos or Saturn of the Romans l of the Canaanites. The Chronos, 1379 01:52:46,199 --> 01:52:49,319 of course, was the god who Zeus and the Olympians, leader of 1380 01:52:49,359 --> 01:52:53,479 the Titans, who Zeus and the Olympians overthrew and then sent down to Tartarus. 1381 01:52:54,199 --> 01:52:58,800 There's actually a mention in the Bible of angels who sinned and were punished 1382 01:52:58,800 --> 01:53:03,800 by being sent to Tartarus. Wow. I don't know how we could have 1383 01:53:03,880 --> 01:53:09,479 ever had the mindset that it's okay to sacrifice our children. That's just horrible. 1384 01:53:10,039 --> 01:53:15,039 But but God ever entered his mind, So that's that's part of the 1385 01:53:15,119 --> 01:53:18,039 point. These these are rebel gods who convinced the people around ancient Israel to 1386 01:53:18,119 --> 01:53:21,199 do it. And I mean, if if we looked to hear it in 1387 01:53:21,279 --> 01:53:25,119 our continent, it was a sacrifice. It was a practice that was taking 1388 01:53:25,159 --> 01:53:28,960 place here in the Americus. Yeah, there's a lot of things that have 1389 01:53:29,319 --> 01:53:32,840 taken place. Um yeah, I know, even um, slavery among Native 1390 01:53:32,840 --> 01:53:35,920 Americans, even you know, among themselves. Um so, a lot of 1391 01:53:36,000 --> 01:53:40,800 things that we don't know about or ever talked about in history learned in school. 1392 01:53:40,840 --> 01:53:44,319 Anyway, Thanks so much, it's been a real pleasure. And again, 1393 01:53:44,680 --> 01:53:46,640 hold your book up for the people on YouTube. One more time. 1394 01:53:48,680 --> 01:53:53,560 Can you hear me? Okay, well I think we just lost him. 1395 01:53:54,800 --> 01:53:58,680 Did we just lose you? All right? Um he's gone. Oh there 1396 01:53:58,720 --> 01:54:01,960 you are. Okay, yeah, more time. Oh, appreciate it again. 1397 01:54:02,159 --> 01:54:08,159 Website is Official disclosure dot com. It's official disclosure dot com. Official 1398 01:54:08,279 --> 01:54:14,399 disclosure dot com. Thanks so much, it's been a real pleasure. All 1399 01:54:14,520 --> 01:54:18,880 right. Um, let's see all right, you can if you could. 1400 01:54:18,920 --> 01:54:21,760 I'm having trouble with this skype. I'm gonna have to ask you to hang 1401 01:54:21,840 --> 01:54:27,000 up if you would. Thank you very much. All right, all right, 1402 01:54:27,079 --> 01:54:30,159 everyone appreciate it. I really enjoyed it. Yes I did too, 1403 01:54:30,279 --> 01:54:33,840 Thank you all right. Everyone. So that's it for the show. Thanks 1404 01:54:33,880 --> 01:54:38,880 so much for checking us out and listening. If you support the show, 1405 01:54:39,000 --> 01:54:41,880 thanks so much. If you'd like to do that, um, and you 1406 01:54:42,000 --> 01:54:45,239 haven't, all you have to do is go to podcast ufo dot com and 1407 01:54:45,359 --> 01:54:48,439 that's right there. Um, so we'll be back next week with Greg Bishop. 1408 01:54:48,600 --> 01:54:54,359 I'm really excited about that. Um he's got a wonderful podcast called Radio 1409 01:54:54,560 --> 01:54:59,000 Mysterio. So and so he'll be on next week. He'll be live streaming 1410 01:54:59,439 --> 01:55:02,199 U with us here as usual. And I want to thank some people that 1411 01:55:02,279 --> 01:55:05,439 help out with the show. First of all, Evan the show producer, 1412 01:55:05,640 --> 01:55:11,840 thank you. We had a challenge tonight and you pulled through. I also 1413 01:55:11,880 --> 01:55:15,319 want to thank Peggy for managing the Facebook page. You can like us on 1414 01:55:15,439 --> 01:55:19,079 Facebook. I think we have a lot of people there and there's postings every 1415 01:55:19,159 --> 01:55:24,560 day on that site. We also have a guest blog. You can check 1416 01:55:24,640 --> 01:55:29,840 that out at podcast ufo dot com and that's about to the Stars an opinion 1417 01:55:29,920 --> 01:55:33,479 about that. So that's it, and I hope I didn't leave anyone else 1418 01:55:33,760 --> 01:55:39,960 for Yeah, of course I want to thank our guests Derek Gilbert that was 1419 01:55:40,000 --> 01:55:43,399 on the show tonight. I don't want to forget that. And so that's 1420 01:55:43,439 --> 01:55:47,359 it, and thank you all and remember to keep your eyes to the sky.