Hello, and welcome to the show on Martin willis your host. And unfortunately,
I've just got a note from Alejandro just to just I don't know,
maybe twenty minutes ago. He says, dude, I have nothing to say,
And so I said, he was on a cruise last week. He
says he has absolutely no idea if a UFO even landed on the White House
lan nothing. He has no idea. So he said, I don't really
have anything to talk about. And so I said, well, why don't
you skip it? I said, I think I'm gonna be able to get
this guy that I have on the show. I think I'm going to be
able to get him to talk a little bit. And so our guest is
Derek Gilbert and he's written a very interesting book. It's actually a really good
read and a lot of really good points. I may have some objections to
some of the points, but that's what should make it a decent interview.
I also want to say on April we have a lot of great guests coming
up. Next week. It's going to be Greg Bishop, a great guy.
So but on April fourth, we have Robert Schroeder. Now he was
on a long, long time ago and he this weekend on March seventeenth,
Saturday, at two o'clock, he's going to be at the Morse Library and
Natick, Massachusetts. If anyone lives in that area, he's great and you
will see that on April fourth when he's here on the show. So that
is again, that's at the Morse Library and Natick, Massachusetts this Saturday at
two o'clock. And um So, without further ado, I would like to
bring our guest on and I have a whole bunch of questions for him.
We're gonna be talking about his book, which is The Day the Earth Stands
still a little play on words there unmasking the old gods behind ets UFOs and
the official Disclosure movement. Welcome to the show. It's my honor. Thanks
for having me on. Yes, now you know we've had I'm a I'm
in a hotel room. At first, I have to explain this. We're
having a little bit of internet issues, but not as bad as Josh.
Go ahead and tell what happened to your h It was gonna be a co
guest this evening right Well, Josh and I are co workers at SkyWatch TV,
which is a Christian television production company. We produce a number of programmers
there. The flagship program is syndicated. The rest are sent are sent out
through YouTube vivieo. But we noticed this afternoon as we were getting ready to
upload the last of the programs we needed to send out to our networks today
that our internet died and we've had some issues. We're located in a small
town in the Missouri Ozarks. You know. Our town in which we're based
is about fourteen hundred people. The county in which we live as twenty twenty
five thousand people, who maybe county seats four hundred and forty people. So
we don't expect great internet, but we do pay a premium to try to
get decent enough internet that we can send full HD video files back and forth.
Nothing happened after about two o'clock this afternoon, But it turns out we're
not alone. The entire state of Missouri. Practically Mediacom had somebody slice through
two Well it's not somebody, somebody's Two separate fiber optic cables were cut today
in different parts of the state. The main cable up in the northwest part
of the state, and it's according to local news here, the other in
the central part of the state, near the town of Cuba, which was
the backup line. So all media, cable and internet and phone customers in
Missouri from Saint Louis to the city are waiting for them to get the one
or both of those lines stitched back together. And of course Josh is one
of those customers. So wow, So was it the Russians? Yeah?
Probably, yeah, yeah, probably, I think so. Yeah, there
is a lot going on. Well at least it's not you know, some
nerve agent. Yeah. Yeah. Um so the book, as I said,
it was an interesting read and um so we got we got a long
time to kill here. But I want to ask you, first of all,
what was the h what was the source of you coming up with this
book? What what what started your path on it? Well, Josh and
I both are you know, geeks. From from way back. I was
a big, big, and still a big science fiction fan. Um loved
hard science fiction growing up. Read everything I can get my hands on by
Larry Niven, especially Jerry Purnell, which just recently passed away sadly, Um,
Isaac Asimov, Rubbert Heindline, So authors like that were were my bread
and butter. High school, Josh simpler Path, you know, always fascinated
with the idea that there might be life out there in outer space. Now
fast forward a few years, we find ourselves here in this place, both
of us coming at this from an unashamedly and openly Christian point of view,
but I think with a different perspective than a lot of Christians have on the
UFO phenomenon. A lot of the books that have been written about UFOs by
Christians tend to just dismiss the whole thing as either non existent or as the
return of the Nephelem. It's all demonic, in other words, and we
kind of fall somewhere in the middle. We don't deny that something is going
on, but we think the evidence suggests that it's something different than what most
people think it is. We also wanted to address a question that I think
a lot of Christians make Christians nervous about the phenomenon. If a UFO were
to land on the White House lawn, an actual, actual extraterrestrial spacecraft,
a lot of Christians, I think would find their faith really shaken. And
we address that in the book because we believe that a proper understanding of Christian
theology means we don't need to worry about Zeta Riticulus landing on the White House
Law and somehow debunking the Bible. Okay, So I was thinking about asking
you some questions along the line of, you know, I understand that there
is a really good point to be make made about that. It's sort of
like a religion, you know, UFOs can be and I have actually seen
and I do agree with a number of things in your book, especially in
every time I dropped this name name I get, I get some hate mail,
but you know, I agree with what you said about Stephen Greer and
um, you know a lot of people think the world of him, but
anyone that's anyone that's going to charge someone fifty dollars to take a picture of
him inside of a invisible UFO, I don't. I don't, you know,
I don't buy any I don't buy the stuff that he does. You
know he does. He did in the very beginning, he did something absolutely
wonderful. And then I just think up like in your book, you said
he gave up a half a million dollars a year job, you know,
to do this. So it's a there's not a lot of people though,
and I will will tell you this, and you may not even understand this,
because most people don't, but there's very very few people in the UFO
field you followist whatever you want to call him, that really make any money.
You know, for instance, Travis Walton. You know, I had
a conversation with him once. He says a lot of times, you know
he's retired now a lot of times he'll just pay us on expenses, so
sure, you know, they'll get him the hotel room and that's it.
Well, the interesting thing about that is it seemed to us as we went
down to the Roswell Festival last year, the seventieth anniversary of the famous Roswell
crash, and we saw you know, Lynda Moulton Howe and Stanton Friedman and
you know Nick, Nick Redfern, Greg Bishop got a chance to meet him,
would like to interview him, didn't have the opportunity while I was there.
We were busy working on the project that accompanied the book. But Jack
Brewer too, by the way, who whose work site in the book,
really really found his book. The grays have been framed to be very very
helpful. But it seemed to me that a lot of the speakers who go
to UFO conferences are very much like well, guys like me who go around
and speak at you know, Bible prophecy conferences and theology conferences. You do
it because you love it and because you think you've got something that you hope
is important to say. And that was the sense I got from those guys.
I didn't see any of those guys getting rich. Even the so called
stars in the field like Stanton Friedman and Linda Moulton, howe they were,
they were flying the same flights we were, so you know, they did
not look like they were they're getting high off the hog by pursuing this career.
So and I certainly didn't want to cast any dispersions on the character of
stephen career. Coming back to the question of the UFO phenomenon as a as
an alternate religion, that was really what triggered the idea for the book when
we were looking at research that came out last year that and comparing it with
research and came out last year on what American Christians were they and then compared
that with some surveys that have been done in recent years by National Geographic Channel
on what people believe about the existence of extra terrestrial life. And we found
that in America, and this is according to the twenty twelve survey by National
Geographic Channel when they were launching their UFO program, that they're six percent of
American adults believe that we're being visited by extraterrestrials. About seventy percent believe that
there is evidence that we might be being visited, but thirty six percent are
convinced that we're being visited by extraterrestrials. But now, the Barne Group,
which is a survey group that specializes in taking the theological temperature, if you
will, of Christians, found that in America today only ten percent of American
adults have a biblical worldview. Now about seventy percent of American adults are three
quarters roughly identify as Christians, but most are cultural Christians. When Barnet starts
asking questions, well, do you agree or disagree with this statement, and
then put forth the number of tenets of the Christian faith. For example,
did Jesus live a sinless life? Was he born of virgin? His satan
a literal entity and not just a concept of force. Things that according to
the Bible are Christianity one on one, and they define anyone who accepted six
core beliefs as having a biblical worldview. So out of the seventy five percent
of Americans who say they're Christian, only ten percent have a biblical worldview.
Ten percent of all American adults, but of those who claim to be evangelical
or born again Christians, only seventeen percent have a biblical worldview. So we
concluded from this that there are more people who believe we're being visited by extraterrestrials
than who believe in God as he's defined himself in the Bible. And so
when Christians ask us and this is something, we get some pushback within the
Christian community who say, well, you're really wasting your time. This is
a fringe topic, UFOs extra terrestrials. You should be preaching a gospel.
Well, okay, we agree. As Christians are Mischian. According to Jesus,
our prime directive, if you will, is who make disciples of all
nations. But the fact is there are more people out there who believe in
Et than believe in the words of this book, this Bible here that you
carry. So you know, yeah, and I think when you start down
the path of what the evidence shows that there's a lot of overlap, at
least in terms of the language between UFO researchers and biblical theology. Well,
you know, I also will say to you, first of all, what
makes you believe in the Bible? You know, I mean, it's a
good question. Here's another you know, another thing I do remember back in
somewhere in the nineteen nineties, I happened to be in a dentist office and
I saw a newsweek and on the newsweek it said something along the lines is
that our brains are wired to our brains are wired to create a god.
So if you don't have a god, you better create one. And I
think, you know, you look back, you know, we say we
have a monotheist, monotheistic society when it comes to Christians. Um. But
you know, how many um of those have there been, you know,
with a single deity worshiped UM who knows over there, you know, since
the beginning of time. So there's a lot of Um. There's a lot
of similarities. But also as far as the beliefs go, I think this
is kind of an interesting topic to compare the two. You know, why
does someone believe in God? Why does someone believe in aliens? Now,
I will tell you this. You know, maybe there have been things,
and we can talk about Fatima because that's an interesting I don't know if you
know anything about Fatima, BUTI has done a lot of research on Fatima.
Yep. But then you also here, here's the thing. I I know
what I saw. I saw something over me. I had a UFO experience
and it wasn't something that was made up in my mind or um. It
was a real experience. And there are so many people that have had these
real experiences. Now I'm not saying and so was Josh. Yeah so what
Josh? So is my wife? Yeah? Yeah? So Again, I
want to be very clear that we we we do not deny not only the
U phenomena, but we are not we don't deny that there are people who
are being severely traumatized by something that has been labeled at the alien abduction phenomenon.
It's a real phenomenon. Okay, both the UFO phenomena and alien abduction.
I'll put alien in air quotes because I reserve in judgment as to what
those those entities truly are. But I've got ideas based on the evidence.
But the point is we do not absolutely do not deny that something is going
on. I guess I didn't get that far enough and far enough into your
book to hit to read that part of it. Um. Oh no,
but you know, I do also understand that, you know, we have
a belief system. You know, when someone um, there's a friend of
mine, Sam Moronto, and he gets really his fathers get ruffled. When
someone says, do you believe in UFOs? He says, it's not a
belief. It's either they're you know, either they're here or they're not.
Um. Right, So I do understand. And when someone asked me if
I believe in UFOs because of Sam, I always kind of hesitate, and
it's what what do I you know? Is it a belief system? Um?
But so let's talk about, um, some of the research you did
and do you think, um, you think there it's like a cult or
what do you what do you where you going? No? No, not
at all. Um. I think what's happening is and this is really more
an indictment of um, well, the church, the Christian Church. I
don't think the Christian Church has done a very good job in teaching the reasons
why we should believe that the Bible is true. I had to do that
on my own. Um. I was brought to church in a week when
I was a kid, went through Sunday School with all the flannelboard little kid
pictures of no on his animals going into the ark and all that saff But
as soon as I got into college, I quit going. And Josh very
much the same way. Josh was. He'll tell you he was, you
know, full blown new Asier. He was practicing astral projection and doing a
lot of other things that yeah, we'll make for a really good story.
Yeah, you're missing out on some of the really good stuff because he's been
silenced by Russia tonight who did But so we we have different paths through which
we came. I kind of went back to my I guess my sci fi
upbringing, believing that our future was Star Trek, you know, that we
would overcome the superstition of religion and that science and technology we can solve all
of our problems in the future. Josh was just again, he was just
fascinated with the concept of life and outer space. I love me a good
space opera again, especially told from a hard science fiction perspective, but when
we start looking at the evidence now as adults, and at some point during
this conversation, yeah, I'd be happy to talk about Christian apologetics because that's
kind of what led me to all of this, you know, the reasons
that I can say that I'm convinced that Jesus of Nazareth actually lived, died,
and literally rose from the dead. But again, just being open and
honest, that's where I'm coming from from my starting point in looking at the
UFO phenomenon. And I will grant Martin that you and probably every person who
is a real student of the UFO phenomenon is at least as well informed on
the research, if not better than I am. I've had a passing interest
in it, kind of kept my eyes on it, but when it came
down to research for the book, I had to dig again and really start
looking at Morey Island and Kenneth Arnold, the influence of the intelligence community and
Joint Security Command, you know, the the presence of government agents in every
major UFO flap in the late forties. And there are researchers like Nick Redfern
to whom I will gladly defer who's done a lot more research and heavy lifting
on this. Again, not saying that those things didn't happen, just saying
that as somebody who had to look at the Bible or a critical I say,
Okay, let's weigh the evidence from the eyewitness testimony, to the archaeology,
to the ancient texts, to the history of the nations around ancient Israel,
which is kind of an area I'm specializing in right now. Let's apply
that same sort of critical thinking to the modern uf OL phenomena. Are there
other explanations that may fit the evidence better than the extraterrestrial hypothesis. Again,
something is going on. Some of those strange things in the sky may well
be government projects that we just don't know about yet. I would suggest that
that's a plausible explanation for the videos that have been released through the to the
Stars Academy of Arts and Sciences here in December and then again just this past
week, the objects caught on the infrared radar cameras of the FATEAM pilots.
There are some things that are misidentified commercial aircraft or natural phenomena of the planet
Venus to use an old cliche, but there are some that are legitimately not
explainable by natural phenomena or misidentified or secret aircraft. Those we're really interested in,
because there are some that appear to defy the laws of physics. But
there are researchers such as Jacques Ballet, who was not approaching this with a
Christian worldview, and others such as John Keel who concluded that the extra dimensional
hypothesis or interdimensional hypothesis is a better fit for the evidence, especially when you
look at the difficulty the technological scientific challenges in trying to cross the vast distances
between star systems, that it actually seems to make more sense that whatever these
things are that are visiting Earth, they're coming from outside our three perceivable dimensions
rather than from outside the Solar system. And that's kind of the approach we
take on the UFO phenomenon. We also touch on the abduction phenomenon, and
again you are looking at a phenomenon that at researchers such as doctor John Mack,
the late psychologist Harvard University, suggested, bore so many similarities to the
accounts of people who have been subjected to satanic ritual abuse that it was not
statistically likely that these things were not somehow interconnected. So again we start looking
at the evidence in that In that way, we're seeing that if we're drawing
a Venn diagram of say, you know, spiritual encounters and extraterrestrial encounters,
is a great deal of overlap there. And so I think we as Christians
and the UFO community can have a conversation here and just kind of compare notes.
I'm going back to the video you just mentioned that just came out a
few days ago. I was released Through to the Stars. I actually got
I wonder if I can read that. I actually got a note from a
military pilot on that particular video, which is kind of surprising. He says.
Or he was saying that this was not a classified video to begin with,
and that it was shown at a briefing that he was at, um,
you know, several many years ago. Um, I don't know,
maybe ten or something years ago. So he said it was it was a
great example of a slide and catch or something like that. I can't really
pull it up right now of what he said, but he said the reason
he was shown and the briefing was more about capturing it on a camera than
it was about you know what the object was, but they they thought,
you know, one time they thought it was some type of missile, but
then they just don't know what it is. But it's a very clear I'm
sure you looked at it as a very clear image of some type of object,
and it's moving very fast, about the same speed as the the F
eighteen itself. But I wrote an article about the previous release, the article
that was released the video that was released along with the New York Times article
back in mid December, which we couldn't have asked for better marketing because that
video came out like a week after a book came out, so perfect time.
But the story about that what's being called the the ussnmits UFO incident from
back in two thousand and four. You know, again, that's a classic
example of something that you cannot deny. I mean, there's something that was
seen and you're you're talking about military pilots, guys who don't stand to gain
anything by making stuff up. One Marine Corps pilot, a number of name
Navy pilots, plus the radar operators on the USX Lexington. I believe it
was so a number of trained observers spotted this thing. The thing I thought
was really bizarre was that the first pilot on the scene saw this whatever it
was hovering over the ocean and found that there was an area about a hundred
meters across that water was apparently breaking over the top of it, like something
really big was just submerged. In fact, the first pilot on the scene,
Commander Fraber I believe a Fraber was his name, thought that he had
arrived at the site of the crash of a commercial jetliner, so you know,
something was under the You don't hear much talk about that. I'm really
curious at what exactly was under the water that this thing was hovering over.
But anyway, as he began to descend and began to pursue the thing,
it took off in at a speed that his FA teen couldn't match. And
then the radar guys back at the USS Lexington not Lexington, Princeton. The
Princeton said, it's at the rally point. Well, the rally point was
far on if a way that when you do the math at how quickly it
got there, the thing was traveling in excess of thirty six hundred miles an
hour, which is like twice the speed of the F eighteen half again as
fast as the SR seventy one Blackbird, which is the fastest at that we
know of, fastest man made aircraft on the planet. But the thing is,
and it was really curious that the second flight of F A teens that
came out there, they're the ones who caught it on their infrared radar.
It wasn't outgassing anything hot, so it was not burning a fuel for propulsion
of any sort. So what was it we don't know. But that doesn't
necessarily mean, which is the idea that's been put forward by mister Alexando from
To the Stars Academy and obviously Christopher Mellan out there who's talking about the most
recent video, it doesn't necessarily mean that these objects came from outside the Solar
System. It may well be that it was a government project, whether United
States government, Russian, Chinese, something that moves in access of thirty six
hundred mile pur maybe it's something we want China and rush you to know about
yet. But well, I do have an argument in case of the second
Okay, go ahead. Well my argument is very simple, as this is
not the first time that they've seen something race away at a speed, and
there has been speeds clocked up to twenty thousand miles an hour that we were
talking, you know, thirty forty years ago. So another thing is and
if that Kenneth Arnold's, yeah, that's the sighting that Kenneth Arnald had back
in the nineteen forty seven was at some ludical speed. So yeah. But
my point is that that there's there's a tendency though on the part of some
observers to look at something like this and say, we don't know what it
is, therefore aliens And that's not necessarily the case. You're talking about,
Georgio, aren't you No? You know yet? The other thing I will
tell you is there's never there's never been a report that I'm familiar with at
this point where there's been the sound barrier broken. No matter what speed the
thing took off in it's another me real mystery. It doesn't make any sense.
There's and a lot of times, you know, the thing that I
saw had absolutely no sound, and that was the most that was almost the
most terrifying, if there was anything terrifying at all, It was more that
bothered me or or sad in my mind more than anything else. So when
these things are moving without making any noise, um, you know, it
really is bizarre. Now again, you mentioned the possibility of another dimension or
something like that, and I never ruled that out along with I never rule
out aliens either. But I do want to say that, you know,
perhaps there's just something in physics that they've figured out how to travel time,
um that you know, doesn't involve anything that we know of today for instances,
right, And you know, I do want to mention that poor Stephen
Hawkin um passed away. I just wanted to mention that, um in just
um, you know, he will be missed very deeply in the scientific community.
Um. He did not have too many nice things to say about people
that saw UFOs but Christians. Oh yeah. Other than that he was a
good man, and I think he did. He did a lot of really
spectacular things. So a lot of a lot of controversial and interesting thoughts that
man had. Yeah. So well, again, the existence of extraterrestrials is
not something we rule out now. For the record, we don't believe that
that there is concrete evidence that Earth has been visited by an extraterrestrial intelligence.
But like I said, one of the things we wanted to address in the
book is that if that proves to be incorrect, and you know, Clatt
stands up the White House long with Gort, hopefully we can all get along.
And it comes down to this, because it comes down to the definition
of what it means to be created in God's image. It's a problem with
translating Hebrew into English. English is not as nuanced to language as Hebrew.
When it says God said, let us create man in our image, it
doesn't mean mankind looks like God, that God is a biped that stands between
five and a half and six feet tall, or whatever what it means in
the Hebrew. The sense we get is that we are God's image bearers.
We are his moral agents on earth. That's the role that humans have been
created to fill. And that applies to all of us, regardless of how
old we are, how well developed we are, our lack or gift of
cognitive abilities, any disabilities or special abilities that we might have, it applies
to us merely because we are human. All of us are created as God's
image bearers. Now some of us you know that out better than others.
It doesn't change depending on again, you know how well educated we are,
how rich we are, what all of us on Earth are created in God's
image In that respect, and the landing on the White House lawn, the
sudden appearance of an actual extraterrestrial in front of the United Nations would not change
that status. So as a Christian, if an actual et were to land
on the White House lawn, I would not throw out my Bible and say,
Okay, well, I guess this is just a bunch of lies.
No, say hey, cool, God's creation is even more amazing and convoluted
than I thought it was. Yeah. One of the things I was going
to ask you is, you know, how does the Christian faith line up
with the possibility of being visited You you kind of answered that. But another
thing is, you know, I think it's if you went back in time,
say one hundred years or two hundred years or something like that, I
don't think there would be any openness at all, just something about I don't
think they would be comprehendable and there I don't think, well, I don't
think go ahead. That's actually one of the things we went into in the
book because, in the contrary what most people think, the possibility of life
and outer space. The life on other planets is actually something that Christian theologians
have done a lot of thinking about over the centuries. It's only been the
last hundred years or so that Christians have kind of shut down that idea,
in part because I think a lot of Roman Catholic theologians over the centuries have
said, well, you know, we can't rule out that God might have
created other worlds. I mean, because to say that he didn't do it
or couldn't do it is putting a limit on God, and that's that's not
allowable. So no, actually, history you find that, yeah, Christians
going back centuries, hundreds and hundreds of years were actually considering the possibility of
other planets and other occupied planets. Now, when you just said a minute
ago that you know man was created in God's image or however that is termed,
is this your own interpretation of you saying this to make it fit or
where are you getting that information from? Hebrew scholar by the name of doctor
Michael Heiser, he's the scholar in residence for logost Bible Software and he's also
a respected upologist. He has looked at that and that is not a let's
say that's not a fringe interpretation of that verse in Genesis. Again, when
you dig into the Hebrew and understand what that means, it is a it's
a little more nuanced than created in God's image. It's again, this is
why I say that we the Christian Church have not done really an adequate job
of educating people who call themselves Christians as to what the Bible's says and why
we should leave it. It's sure, Um, so what do you think,
um in your mind? Like the extraterrestrial intelligences as you called them out
there. Um, we we're not having a very good track record as far
as the way we treat each other, the way we kill each other,
the way there's wars and all that. Um. Now, so far as
we know, whatever it is that's visiting us hasn't really interfered or you know,
there's a couple of cases where there was possibility that there was some type
of you know, a shootdown or something of an aircraft or whatever. One
in Australia, and there's one somewhere in the Mid States. But as far
as we know, we may be you know, it may not be other
creations that are violent like we are. I mean, do you ever think
about that. I mean, we're we're not. We don't have a very
good track record. No, that's true, we don't. And in fact,
that's entirely consistent. I'll just point out that's entirely consistent with a Christian
worldview that says, you know, we say we have no sin, we
deceive ourselves and the truth there's not in us. The heart is inherently wicked.
But I think Stephen Hawking might have been onto something here where he said,
you know, the just looking at the history of the world, when
a more advanced civilization comes across a less advanced civilization, it usually doesn't work
out well for the less advanced civilization. So he was not really looking forward
the possibility of encountering a more advanced civilization from outside the Solar system. Yeah,
but you know, that's I argue with that, because that's human nature.
We don't know the nature of what another intelligence is, and it all
boils down to how it how it evolved, you know, really how it
survived whatever to you know, evolve into what it has evolved into, the
natural instincts to become tribal or hunt and whatever, you know, have turned
now into you know, violence against each other. You know, who knows
if they even think in those terms. No, we don't, because they
may be so alien and so utterly to us that they can't even imagine what
their thought processes are. I mean, they may take no more notice of
us than we take of the ants on the sidewalk. On the other hand,
they might be entirely benevolent. Don't know. Personally speaking, I don't
think. I don't think there is other life out there, at least not
that is contacting us directly. I think, And again, this is not
a theological hill, but I'm going to dine on, which is why we
address the issue of what it means to be created in God's image, because
we think that's an important point one that is a stumbling block to Christians when
they start looking into the UFO on what happens if there is other Does that
mean that they're creating God's image too, and would Jesus have to die for
them as well? No, but it is a I don't think that something
that big would have been left out of God's word. In other words,
if there was a possibility that Zeta reticulans, We're going to land and begin
communications with us. That's probably something God would have told us. But again
that speculation on my part. I don't have a enough information, biblical or
otherwise to make that a theological hill on which I'm going to, you know,
defend to the death. A friend of ours has a belief that he
calls the doctrine of stated intent, in which he points to the fact that
in the Bible, God said he created the stars in the sky to mark
the times and the seasons, and so that's their stated intent. He did
not say that I put these stars in the sky to host inhabited planets with
civilizations that might someday visit you. Okay, I can. I can see
where he's getting as supporting it with the evidence. But again, one way
or the other, whether we are alone in the universe or whether someday an
advanced civilization makes contact with us, that does not change our status as God's
image bearers on planet Earth. And so one way or the other, I'm
secure in my Christian faith. Well, um, all right, um,
someone just asking the chat room, they said, I'm confused, does he
believe in ets or not? So I'm thinking that Okay, let me let
me give you one word answer. Nokay, you know, and don't you
don't you think that's a little bit And I'm not saying that you are arrogant,
but don't you think that's a little bit arrogant? Well? No,
I mean we have to reach a conclusion one way or the other. I
mean I could say I don't know for sure, but I don't believe that
there are now. Like I said, I'm not If I'm proven wrong,
it's not going to crush my world view. Okay, I've been I've been
wrong about lots of things in my life. All right now. I've been
a Chicago Cubs fan since I was six years old. I only got right
the one time back in twenty sixteen. So, uh, let me ask
you something. Do you about the your views of God? I guess do
you think first of all, God always was yes? And so there was
never a beginning? He just always was. Now, now I'm going to
say something sound a little silly, but okay, if that's the case,
then why did he wait for un till only fourteen billion years ago to start
the universe? He always was? What was he doing all that time?
Well, that's what I'm going to take the I don't know if I could
know the mind of God, if I could understand the mind of God,
God would be is small where you could fit inside this head here, and
he'd be a pretty small guy. You know. That's that's that's a cop
out. I guess, sure, yeah, um, and you know I'm
not him, so I can't answer that question. I've seen I've seen a
few different debates UM with Hitch Hitchens and and uh and and I've seen kind
of you know that that um, you know, I'm I've seen that that
cop out. I don't know, you know, I mean, that's that's
better than making something up. Yes, but there's plenty of things we can
certainly say that about UM and that that's h exactly what I say about UM.
Whether I think they're um UFOs have ets in them or not, I
don't know, you know, So I guess I'm kind of along the same
I'll take the fifth as well. Well. You know, some might think
it's a cop out. I just think it's being honest. I have no
idea. I don't know. I don't know that the universe is fourteen million
years old. Yeah, you know, I I'm not really sure about the
Big Bang If that's you know, I think it's very possible that some day,
you know, and there's so many things that do point to it,
but someday they may uncover something. Oh so this is what happened. I
mean, how many times has that happened in science? As we went along?
You know, you think about the Church going back to the church having
Galileo, um, you know, and under house arrest for taking Copernicus' view
that the Earth went around the Sun. Um. You know, there's there's
a lot of things in religion that have stifled science, you know, real
science. Well, I think there was more going on there with Galileo than
just his view of astrophysics. I think there were some things that he had
been saying that the Church took issue with in terms of theology. It wasn't
just the science. And would those things be acceptable in today's world? The
things that he were saying, I mean, can you give an example.
This is not an area of my study, but I will say this,
the Roman Catholic Church sure shows a lot of interest in what might be coming
from out there. In fact, they've been talking openly about their willingness to
baptize their space brothers, and even go so far as to talk theology with
them, because if an advanced civilization comes to Earth from somewhere out there,
they may have a more developed theology that might require some recalibration on their part
as far as Christian doctrine. M okay, I can't go there again.
I think that the eyewitness testimony of the ministry life, death resurrection of Jesus
of Nazareth, that that, to me is the anchor point for all of
the stuff in the Old Testament that he validated as history. And again just
my own research into what the neighbors of the ancient Israelites believe the pagan nations
around there supports some things in the Bible that otherwise doesn't make any sense.
But that's that I could do two hours just on that topic Cologne. So
rather than go down the rabbit trail. The Roman Catholic Church is a lot
more open to things today then they probably were in Galileo's day. Theologically speaking,
they're open more open now than they were probably fifty years ago. In
the teachings of say the Jesuit priest Prr. Chardin, who was the character.
He was the guy on which they based the character Father Lancaster Marrin and
The Exorcist, you know, the guy discovers that, you know, little
statue of the demon Puzuzu in Iraq, and then it winds up traveling to
Washington, DC, which explains a lot about our political system, I think.
But he believed that the universe and that all of creation was getting more
and more sentient. He was credited with coining the term the social network,
and that there was the geosphere, the biosphere, and then the noo sphere,
which is a network of human interaction, human knowledge that was ever growing,
and that someday, as we developed and grew in love and knowledge,
we would all come together in what he called the Omega point and become one
with the cosmos and one with the Creator. That's very Eastern, that's not
Orthodox Christianity, and a lot of his writings were restricted. The distribution of
his writings was restricted by the Vatican back in the early sixties, but just
recently, a group of Vaticans are rather Jesuit scientists, because all the Jesuits
are well scientists by training, set a letter to Pope Francis asking him to
essentially remove the warning labels from Tayard's writings and Essentially, when you take what
Tayard taught from a Jesuit perspective and move it into the Silicon Valley, you
essentially have the singularity terror movement, and you've got the instead of the Omega
point, you've got the singularity of doctor Raymond Kerswile. So you know,
there there's there's a lot more overlap between theology and science than most people would
like to think. Um, and again, coming back to the UF phenomenon,
A lot of people and again I certainly don't want to accuse anyone who's
interested in the subject of being in a cult, and certainly not all researchers
are looking at the phenomenon for the big answers of life are answers to the
big questions of life, which are where do we come from, why are
we here? And what happens to us when we die? But there are
a lot of people who do. And you know, God love him.
I believe he's sincere. But Stephen Grewer, doctor Stephen grew is one of
those fellas Doctor edgar Mitchell was another. Right, Um, now we may
we may take some calls. Is that okay? If we take a phone
call or two? Okay? So anyum, so the numbers up on the
screen. If you're listening live, hey, while I have you people live
right now, And for listeners that check this out as a podcast at some
point and you would like to listen live, I'm actually thinking about moving the
day the day that I do the show, possibly to Saturday, Sunday or
Monday. So and that's that's only because sometimes I get busy and Wednesdays are
really tough for me to do. So if you'd like to put your note
in the chat room now, so either Saturday, Sunday or Monday, I
may switch the day too. I may keep it the way it is,
but if someone would just reply to that, or if you're listening as a
podcast and you would like to contact me because you do listen occasionally live,
it's Martin at podcast ufo dot com. Martin at podcast ufo dot com is
the email address. So, UM, about the Bible, there is there's
a lot of people who have talked like you, there's some connections with UFOs
or et s and the Bible. But my first question about that is what
makes you I said this earlier, what makes you believe the Bible is or
what do you think it is, and why do you think it is what
you think it is? Okay, that's a good question. That's something that
I began to really look at seriously. About twenty years ago. I was
found myself as a mister mom of a young daughter, and I realized one
night I couldn't explain to her why I thought right was right and wrong was
wrong. I didn't know why I believed what I believed, as I said
before, I was raised in the Church, but could not give an answer
for why I thought the Bible it would be true. Okay, yeah,
this is this is all nice stuff in here, but what if it's all
made up? So I again looking at the textual evidence, the archaeological evidence,
and so forth, books like the Case for Christ by Least Roble,
other resources like that. When you come right down to it, the texts
that have been collated into the New Testament have been preserved more accurately, more
carefully over the last two thousand years than any other texts that exists from the
classical world. I mean, if one were to say we can't trust these
documents, because then to apply the same standard to the writings of Caesar,
the Roman historians, the Greeks, like you know, Homer, Aristotle play.
We have to throw all of that out because all of the there are
fewer copies and they're much newer than the texts that make up the Bible.
You look at, and I could, I could go through a number of
other reasons, but what cinched it for me was the fifteenth chapter of Paul's
First Letter to the Corinthians First Corinthians fifteen, where he says to the church
at Corinth, Look, this is what was passed on to me, and
he goes through, you know, this is what we believe as Christians,
and that on the third day he rose again and appeared first to Peter,
and then to James, James his half brother, and then to the twelve,
and then to five hundred brothers at once, some of whom have fallen
asleep, but most are still alive. Essentially, what he was telling the
church at Corinth, which is in Turkey today, was that there were a
lot of witnesses who saw this guy who had been crucified and yet was alive
again. And even though he was writing the letter twenty years later, most
of them were still alive. So if you don't believe me, go to
Jerusalem. And ask around because there are witnesses still walking around who saw this.
In verify what I what I'm saying to you, what I'm writing to
you? Um? Uh that And then in his half brother James, his
story the fact that he was martyred in the year sixty seven A d um
you know, Gospel of John chapter seven James and his brothers. Go ahead,
pardon me for just one second, where we are having an issue with
our phone line. I'm using a different computer. I do need to answer
this real quickly, and you'll be put on hold for just a second.
I'll be right back to you. Sure, sure, all right, Derek
here you are okay, all right? Um? So what happens? I
mean A um, actually, UM, I guess it didn't come through the
skype? Is the phone call. I'm in a hotel room, so I'm
using a different computer and this Skype is not allowing me to add calls.
I really apologize for that. So our caller did ask um. So,
I don't know. Maybe there was a bunch of silence just now on there.
The caller wanted to know, um, what your thoughts were on Father
al Ducci and his thoughts of extraterrestrial life. I'm not familiar with father al
Ducci, sadly or father you talking about Balducci the maybe at so I couldn't
quite understand what he said. That's probably it, Yes, okay, Yeah,
he's one of the researchers with the Vaticans, the Vatican Observatory. Well,
again, I think that the Vatican is trying to hedge its bets.
Yeah, and again they've been open to the possibility of extraterrestrial life for a
long time now. I can't say that I agree with their proposal that they
would baptize extraterrestrials should they exist. But again, in that respect, we're
getting into an area of theology that's highly speculative, and until we have hard
evidence that etis actually exist in are visiting us and have some in just in
pursuing faith in Jesus Christ. Well, it's an interesting exercise. I would
rather deal with what we know in the evidence that we have in front of
us now. It's it's a topic that my colleague, in fact, my
boss, Tom Horne, the CEO of Skywash TV, has done some research
on. He's the author of Exobaticana and has actually been down to the Vatican
observatory and talked to some of the folks connected with the research. So we
took it in a different direction because we felt Tom and the late Chris Putnam
is co author, really covered that subject really well. Now you've been mentioning
Jesus Christ a lot, and so you're going back to a couple of thousand
years. You know, mankind's been around forever. Why do why do we
think that Jesus Christ existed? Or is the end all to the way things
should be in the one God that you believe in. Well, it's a
fair question, and again I come back to the eyewitness testimony. We've got
the eyewitness testimony of people who saw him, lived with him, worked with
him, learned from him. The Gospels Matthew John were disciples of his.
Mark was the disciple of Peter Luke was an historian who in the beginning of
the Gospel of Luke says that he basically talked to people who've been involved with
the movement since the beginning, and was very careful to compile an account of
what had happened so that others might believe. Luke also wrote the Book of
Acts and the Company Paul On some of his travels. And again, as
Paul mentioned in his letter to the Church Corinth, you had the five witnesses,
some of whom he said had died. But we're still around. As
I said, in a sense telling the church at Corinth, if you don't
believe the story that I'm telling you, there are still witnesses walking around who
saw this guy rise from the dead. So it's the eyewitness testimony. And
again the fact that those texts have been preserved better than any other document from
the classical world is the anchor point for me. I would find it really
difficult to accept that, yes, this guy walked on water, Yes this
guy performed these miracles and cast out these demons and did this, that and
the other thing, if it had not been for the eyewitness testimony and the
fact that the eyewitnesses were then willing to die for that testimony. Yes,
people will die for their beliefs, even if those beliefs are wrong. But
people who are sane anyway aren't likely to die for something that they know is
a lie. So unless all of the apostles were really wrong about what they
saw, because the record shows that to all accept John were martyred what they
believe and again as I started to say. The thing that's insted for me
was James, the half brother of Jesus, who in John chapter seven is
one of the brothers of Jesus, who confronted him and say, hey,
aren't you going to go down to the festival in Jerusalem, because if you
want to be known, you can't just keep preaching up here and out in
the sticks in Galilee. For even his brothers did not believe in him.
And yet about thirty five years later, James was willing to be martyred rather
than recant his testimony that Jesus was Messiah. Now why would he do that?
I mean, if my sister had come to me one day and said,
hey, before Abraham was I am, yeah, right, we'd be
calling for medical help. And that's kind of the position that James and his
brothers Jude and others Simeon were in. And yet something changed between the time
of the crucifixion and the time when James was actually martyred. And it's no
from Paul's testimony and others that James was a leader in the early Church.
What changed? First Corinthians fifteen, the risen Jesus appeared first to Peter then
to James, that might change your world views. Seeing your brother rise from
the dead, that's what changed my worldview. M Yeah, I don't know
what to I'm just gonna stay agnostic when it comes to things like that and
this, kind of the same way I approach the UFO topic. I try
to be anyway. You know, there's Christianity. He's been around for a
couple of thousand years. I already mentioned that humans have been around for maybe
two hundred thousand. There's it's questionable how long. Maybe three hundred, maybe
longer. There's been so many religions where they said this is it, this
is it. There's still religions now around the world that this is the right
religion. Why do you think Christianity is the only religion? I mean,
do you agree that other people have the rights to practice their own religions.
Oh? Sure. See, that's the thing. When God created us all
with free will, and that includes the free will to do bad things.
In fact, that's the answer I think, or an answer anyway, for
why bad things happen to good people. God did not create us to be
automatons, to only do according to His will or only operate within a certain
range of actions. You know, I'll let you swing your arm this far,
but I'm going to step in and stop you before you hit someone else
in the nose. No, he gave us free will to choose, and
sadly a lot of us choose to do bad things. So and now now
I'm not equating doing bad things with choosing to believe in another God. Again,
that's that's part of our creation. God created us all with free will
and then sent his son in order to draw men to him. But again,
the choice is up to us. So when I talk about this with
other people, I try not to be you know, I get passionate about
it, but I try not to be too overbearing about it because ultimately I
can't twist anyone's arm. I can't you take out a gun or use the
point of a sword, which sadly has been done by people in the name
of Christ in the past, and there's no biblical support for that. Let
me point out, I'm happy to share the reasons I have faith in Jesus
Christ and the reasons for the hope that I have in Christ, which is
part of our calling as Christians. But it is not up to me to
compel you, and certainly not to try to force you to choose. That
is up to you. That is your choice, your decision. So to
our Jewish brothers and sisters, Muslim brothers and sisters, Hindus, Buddhists,
Jane's shintos, whatever, you have the right to choose. But I'll be
happy to share you know, if you want, I'll be happy to share
the evidence. Now, why do I believe Jesus is the way? Because
he said so, I am the Way, the Truth and the life,
and no one comes to the Father except through me. That's pretty clear.
It would be a lot easier to be a Christian if we could do like
In fact, I just talked about this today on sky Watched TV. I
do a daily news update about ten fifteen minutes in length. A mega church
pastor in Chicago, who and I'm sure you heard the story and all the
you know, the fewer are from Christians. When Joy Behar on the View
said that Vice President Pence saying that he gets messages or hears from Jesus is
a sign of insanity. Well, a mega church pastor at a Christian church
in Chicago said that the idea that Jesus is the only way to heaven is
insanity. And this isn't a fringe guy. This is a guy who is
an adjunct professor at the Chicago Theological Seminary. He's also on the He's a
dean at the Duke University Divinity School. So this is not a fringe guy.
This is a guy who pastors a church of more than ten thousand members.
Saying Jesus isn't the only way? Well, okay, then what I
say is that you're not in any real sense a Christian. I'm sorry not.
You cannot square that with Jesus's own words. I am the Way,
the Truth, and the Life. Now, like I said, it'd be
a lot easier if we could say he is a way, but that's not
what he said. Do you explain that things happening like the Crusades, where
you know so many people were killed in the name of Christianity and other you
know, conflicts, do you push that off as free will of man as
well? Free will? But I mean, you know, free will is
a very broad topic. It doesn't mean a good thing, and it's not
excusing it. Certainly, you know the fact that somebody chooses to shoot seventeen
people in a school in Florida. Yeah, that's an example of free will,
but doesn't excuse what he did. Now, the Crusades are a little
more new wants the people like to like to think. There were a lot
of bad things that happened as the Crusaders got into the Holy Land and started
slaughtering people, you know, innocence for no reason, and that is inexcusable.
And again there's no biblical support for doing that. But the Crusades were
in large measure of response to the violent expansion of Islam from the seventh century
on. So you know, there's some political there's some geopolitical stuff in there
as well. Killing in the name of Jesus though no, that that's never
that's not in the Bible. It's never. It's not supported anywhere. Yeah,
unfortunately, and the name of many religions, there has been a lot.
I think Christianity certainly has its major share. Yeah. So one of
the things I noticed you had some talking points that you sent my way.
But before that, there is a question in chat someone wanted me to get
to actually was a caller. A second question by him, and he wanted
to know what your thoughts on ets holding religion or dogma so high as humans
too. Do you think that's a possibility. First of all, you already
said you don't believe there is ets, right, but if there were less
hypothetically, if there were ets, well yeah, Like politicians, I don't
like to answer hypotheticals because they always come back to bite you. But but
let me say this. One of the things that we hear from from contacts.
We often hear messages from contacts that have religious themes. And that's one
of the things that we explored in the book. In fact, I'd make
the case in the book and Josh as well. You know, Josh did
more of the more recent stuff. Looking at the wiki leaks release of John
Podesta's emails between the Apollo astronaut doctor Edgar Mitchell and Podesta, who was Hillary
Clinton's campaign share, trying to make contact with Barack Obama, and the reason
Mitchell wanted to contact the president was to pass along offers from what he called
extraterrestrials from the contiguous Universe, a neighboring universe again the extra dimensional hypothesis apparently
in view there and doctor Mitchell, as the co founder the Institute of Noetic
sciences has a long history in looking for scientific tools to try to understand the
supernatural realm. So for him this was a spiritual quest as well as a
scientific quest. And the messages that he was receiving from these entities, and
I'm not and I believe he was hearing from something. I just don't think
they were what he thinks they were, had some spiritual and religious overtones.
One group that he in fact called celestials. Well, celestials is a word
that shows up in the New Testament, where some Gnostic believers were criticized by
both Peter and Jude in their letters for blaspheming the celestial ones. So what
are we talking about here? Are we talking about angelic beings? Possibly?
Could it be that doctor Mitchell was talking about angelic beings? Certainly his colleague
Terry Maine thought so. But are they loyal to God? And if so,
which God? My previous book, The Great Inception, I make the
case that the gods, small g gods at the Old Testament, such as
Molech, kimash Dagon, Ashura, Bail, etc. We're real entities,
fallen angels, if you will, But God's nonetheless God in the Bible calls
them gods. So we're dealing with a supernatural realm, of spiritual realm that's
more heavily populated than most of us have been taught to, which kind of
help doesn't help us when it comes try when it comes to trying to understand
what doctor Mitchell was talking about and what other contents have been talking about.
But we hear from other contacts, who hear from groups that identify themselves as
things like the Ashtar Command or you know, going back to Helena Blobotsky,
the Great White Brotherhood, the Masters of Ascended Wisdom, entities intelligences that live
outside the Solar System or at least off planet, that have come from other
worlds, and they very often are bringing messages about how mankind is to evolve
and that they're there to offer us their help in so doing. Certain that's
what doctor doctor Mitchell believed, that there were tools and technologies that they were
willing to offer us, such as zero point energy if we could show that
we would not be violent and take our violent ways out into the into the
universe. So there are often messages from these entities that deal with matters that
we can call spiritual, and yet they're often contradictory. Even their points of
origin are contradictory. They seem to or originate from from different places from contact
DA, contact D. And one of the things I mentioned in the book
is that when you look at the the theory itself of ancient astronauts and ancient
aliens, you can draw you can see that the inspiration for the hypothesis that
the gods of the ancient world or the angels of the ancient world were nothing
more than visitors from other worlds with far superior technology comes right out of the
occult teachings of the nineteenth century of Helena Pulaski and Alistair Crowley. Right,
Yeah, I did see a little bit of that in your book. I
was reading that. Here's here's an interesting question in the chat um, say
ets were proven that they did exist, and you mentioned earlier that you could
still keep your faith sure the second part of the question, how then would
you reconcile the Crucifixion and resurrection with that? In other words, do you
think that they would happen on other worlds? Also, in other words,
why would we if if if ets are out there and there's like billions of
planets with ets etis as you call them. Um, does each world have
its own Jesus and crucifixion and resurrection? Well, you know, obviously we
have no way to know that answer. I mean, the Bible doesn't tell
us, and there's no solid evidence one way or the other that that exists
anywhere else. I mean, that is an interesting thought problem, and it's
one that theologians have wrestled with, believe it or not, for well centuries.
I mean, if there were ets on another planet, would they have
to have their own savior? Would Jesus have to die again and again and
again for all of it? Don't know. That's why I tend to believe
that if that were the case, God probably would have told us in his
word. And that's why I don't personally believe we are ever going to see
a true disclosure movement. And I should point out that the website for the
book by the Way, where we've got an offer on the book and a
variety of other products over three hundred dollars worth of video and book product for
just thirty nine dollars, is official disclosure dot com. So if you go
there, it's cheaper than Amazon Official disclosure dot Com. I don't think we're
going to see official disclosure because I don't think there's anything officially to disclose.
And I approached this a couple of ways, And first of all, I
don't think we've got hard evidence of actual, confirmable extraterrestrial presence on the planet.
Secondly, I think that if and again I will say that Josh and
I do conclude that we have been visited by inhuman entities for literally thousands of
years. But again, if we look at it from the standpoint of the
extra dimensional hypothesis, well then we're talking about the possibility that these entities are
the fallen angels that the Bible tells us about. If the promise of official
disclosure right around the corner is of any use to these rebels against the Creator,
then I think they're going to get more use out of that promise by
keeping that carrot out in front of the horse and never letting the horse catch
up to it. It's like when you go see a monster film and they
reveal the monster too soon, it loses its impact. You know, if
the monster is always just off screen, just you know, the shadow,
just you know, the anticipation is kept up far longer into the film.
I think the promise of official disclosure is more useful. And again this is
my hypothesis as a as a Christian, but I think it's more useful to
these entities that have been visiting Earth than actually revealing what they've got, because
once we saw the actual evidence, I don't think we'd be as impressed as
some folks think we would be. Well, you know, there may be
it may be a letdown to some, but it would really depend on in
my opinion, this is my opinion. I guess it really depend on what
type of communication we had with whatever they are. You know, in other
words, do they know something that we don't know about? The three questions
you mentioned earlier? Sure, you know, where do we come from?
Where do we go when we die? And why we hear? Or whatever?
I can't remember, but um, those questions, yeah, those questions,
Um, you know, if they actually knew or had an idea what
those what those answers that were. We had a lot of contacts, sure,
and a lot of contact. Das had said that they had been getting
answers like that from these entities, and of course they never seem to track
with the Bible, where I've not at least heard of any that track with
the Bible in terms of, you know, the path to salvation. And
again it comes down to that one you know, sticking point there where Jesus
says, you know, he's the only way you don't get that message from
contacts. So that's that's why I think it's it's more useful to them to
keep dangling the promise of evidence out there without actually disclosing it. Um,
there are people again who I am sure are hearing from entities. There are
people I'm sure who are seeing things again. Josh and I make it clear
in the book that we don't deny that things are going on, just based
on the evidence. It may not be what people think it is. And
I think it comes down to the ability to corroborate some of these things.
You know, doctor Greer, for all of his sincerity, he has not
produced anything yet that is on the order of say, a dead man coming
back and appearing to you know, hundreds of people at a single time.
You know, somebody that people saw in a very public way expire, give
up the ghost and spend you know, three days in a tomb. So
until something like that happens, we're depending on the testimony of generally speaking,
I mean, and there are some examples, some some exceptions to this.
For example, Fatima is one magical as another. Where you know, multitudes
of people see, you know, similar things at the same time, But
what comes to specific messages about who these visitors are and what they want to
offer to us or what they want from us. We never hear from more
than one or two at a time, and again often the stories are contradictory.
The question I have is, if these entities are truly that advanced,
why can't they reach out to more than one person at a time. Why
is the contact almost always telepathic spiritual? In other words? You know,
I mean, I'm using a webcam and I'm not certainly a technical genius.
Why can't they use a webcam, send up a flare, you know,
use this other phone. There was a case several years ago at the Caronado
Hotel out in California where there's supposedly was several people that claim that they were
all abducted at the same time, you know. And you know, I
have been a lot of times on the fence about you know, abductions.
I just don't know, But I also am open minded to the fact that
it possibly is happening. It just seems to me that it's kind of bizarre
that there'd be so many, you know, possibly millions of people coming through.
And I think in your book somewhere you mentioned why would they keep coming
back? Maybe that was about something else that was actually why the UFOs keep
coming back? Is that right? Is that right? Well? The I
think the question is, you know, why, if these are advanced entities
and they're doing something to these contact these, many of whom are clearly traumatized
by what they experience. If these are truly advanced entities, you would think
that they would be able to detect the fact that they're inflicting trauma upon these
these contacts and abductees. Certainly, when we abduct a lower life form for
experimentation in a laboratory, okay, we can tell when we're inflicting trauma on
a guinea pig or on a monkey, we can tell. That's why there
are animal rights activists who get very upset about experimenting on animals. If these
entities are as advanced as we would like to think they are, and clearly
must be in order to you know, if they did in fact cross the
vast gulf of space to get here. Why do they keep hurting people?
Why do the people who've been through this experience find themselves well? As doctor
John mac pointed out, you new study with so many points of correlation,
something like more than two dozen, I think three dozen points of correlation between
the accounts of abductees and the accounts of people who have been rich really abused.
At some point you would think that they say, Okay, we're hurting
these these things, and maybe they don't consider a centship, maybe they don't
care. I don't know, but that again, that speaks to their nature
and perhaps to their intent. And again one of the things I'm really influential
reading Jack. I didn't talk to him very long at the Roswell conference,
but I did read his book and listen to a number of interview cities that
he's given. The Jack Brewer book, The Grays Have Been Framed is a
really serious and hard look at the way abductees are treated in the UFO community,
and it really changed my view, shifted my view on the abduction phenomena.
I believe it's real. Again, I just don't think it is what
most in the community think it is so. If so, you actually think
that the disclosure going back to that, you actually think that as being controlled
by whatever the entities are that are showing up here. Did I catch that
right? Well to a degree. I mean again, that's I'm just trying
to figure out. I have a hypothesis here. I think the belief that
the government controls all this information and is just not wanting to let it out.
I think that maybe getting the government a little too much credit for what
it actually knows or what it thinks it knows. I think that this deception,
and I'll use that word purposely, the deception that we're being visited by
extra terrestrial entities, because again I don't think they're extra terrestrial. Extra dimensional,
Yeah I can I can buy that is useful if we hypothesize extra dimensional
entities that have a specific agenda in mind, and if these extra dimensional entities
are what we as Christians would call fallen angels, well, what would their
agenda be. It's to get people to believe anything but that one thing that
I talked about earlier, which is, you know, faith in Jesus Christ.
So they don't really care if you believe in Allah or in Zeta reticulans
or whatever, or you know, as long as it's not the one thing,
they're good. And I think as you look at the history of the
UFO phenomenon and how the craft, the types of craft that witnesses have seen
had changed over years to where it seems to match the culture, so that
people seeing an unidentified flying ship would relate it to something that they were familiar
with. The Texas UFO FLA from the eighteen nineties, so they were seeing
airships flying airships. Alexander the Great in the fourth century BC saw flying shield
the modern flying saucer phenomenon. When you look at the sketch that Kenneth Arnold
drew and Kenneth Arnal sighting was really the first major sighting of the post war
era. He didn't actually describe them as looking like saucers. They looked a
little more like flying wings, which was a type of aircraft that the United
States and Germany were experimenting with in the forties. In fact, it's the
shape of some of our more modern aircraft that are flying today, stealth aircraft
and stealth bomber. But he said that they moved like and I'm sure you
know this Martin moved like saucers being skipped across the water, and hence we
get flying saucers and suddenly everybody's seeing these round saucer shaped things. So I
think the enemy, and I'll use that word as you know, capital e
enemy, these fallen angels. And again this is my hypothesis, with the
evidence that we have available to us, if they are in fact responsible for
these extra dimensional incursions into our realm, choose whatever shape or form would prove
most useful to their to their storyline, to promoting their narrative, which is
that we're being visited by extra terrestrial intelligences who were in fact our creators,
and now they're back to help us evolve to the next level of our development.
Just to let you know, the Alexander the great you know, flying
shield thing is can only be traced back to nineteen fifty nine when MacArthur wrote
it in a book. So that has been kind of deconstructed. Yep,
okay, But and there's there's also Mari Island. The last time I was
talking that, I had all these people tell me that that has been totally
debunked. I don't really know. I've never seen the debunking of Marie Island.
But I would be interested if someone could email me that information. Where
that information lies, I just don't know. I think it's really curious that
Fred Krisman, who was one of the principal witnesses to the Maury Island incident,
as a guy who shows up in connection with a number of other famous
conspiracies over the of the in the US here over the last seventy years.
He was a friend of the father of Michael Rikona Shooto, who was connected
to the Promise software theft and the whole Octopus investigation or not if you're familiar
with that, Okay, Michael Rikonda shoot is an interesting fellow. I think
he's been in prison. May may just have been released within the last six
months or so. But yeah, that's a whole story of nineteen eighty four
eighty five, a company called Inslaw developed program called Promise pr O MS,
which was case management software for I think anyway kind of shoot I'll figured out
how to swipe it on behalf of some other folks. Anyway, Fred Christmas
shows up there. Jim Garrison in the JFK investigation in New Orleans thought that
Chrisman, who was flown the one of the tramps through the railiard. I
think there's another bit of another quote from a book that I included in the
data Earth stand Still about Chrisman, who was apparently the source for information that
was turned into a UFO television series in the nineteen sixties. So Chrisman is
one of those intelligence community guys who keeps showing up at a number of these
stories, and he was right there at Moran. Isn't that something? Wow?
Hey? M One thing I wanted to tell you is we have the
images that you sent us over that we can load up as we're talking.
So if you think the topic that you are speaking of represents that image,
could you please tell us so the show producer can pop that up. Unfortunately,
I never got a chance to look at the images, so I don't
know what's there. Fallen angels. You mentioned that a couple of times in
the Bible, So other are possible things that people can connect to the Bible
when it comes to while we want to say extraterrestrial or you know, being
visited, is there any other parallels that you can think of when it comes
to the Bible. Well, one of the things we thought was really strange.
We started digging into the research here. Several years ago. I had
the opportunity to interview Peter Lavenda, who has researched the occult quite a bit,
but he's also done a lot of research into the space program and the
odd connections between you know, Nazis, UFOs and NASA. He wrote a
book called The Dark Lord in which he traced those strange connections between the fiction
of HP Lovecraft, who was the creator of the Cthulhu mythus back in the
twenties and thirties, and Alistair Crowley, who was the occultist who founded Telema,
probably the best known occultists in the twentieth century. Lavenda showed that when
he wrote The Cthulhu Mythos in nineteen twenty six, and he said there's no
evidence that Lovecraft knew of Crowley's work. He might have known or heard Crowley's
name, but he didn't know of Crowley's work. And Lovecraft was an atheist,
professing atheist, but he was tappy as a horror author to draw on
the teachings of occultists like Blovotsky. He mentions theosophy a number of times in
his stories and use it as grist for his mill. Well in nineteen twenty
six when he wrote The Call of Cthulhu, which is the story that he's
best known for and his best known monster off you will, Cthulhu was the
dead dead but not dead dead but sleeping dead but dreaming God who lies in
this ruined city at at the bottom of the ocean. And already you've got
a number of things there that come out of theosophy, you know, the
lost continents, megalithic architecture and stuff like that, created by a superior ancient
race that might return some day when the stars aligned correctly. Lavenda pointed out
that in the story, Lovecraft set the action back in nineteen oh seven,
on Halloween Night of nineteen or seven, in particular, when in the story
the police in New Orleans find the statue of this little you know, this
little statue of Cthulhu, who was the the star of the story. Well,
it just so happens that on Halloween night in nineteen o seven, Alistair
Crowley was channeling something, channeling and entity that was feeding him the teachings that
became some of the books of the Books of the Law for his religion Telema,
and in the course of writing on Halloween night. One of the things
that he wrote down in this channeling session was the name Tutulu sounds kind of
like Cthulhu, not exactly, but kind of like it. But Lavenda pointed
out that Crowley's personal secretary and successor, Kenneth Grant, who took Crowley's teachings
and developed it into what he called the Typhonian Order or the Typhonian Oto,
believed that Crowley just misheard the word and that what he should have heard was
Cutulu or Cuthulu. In other words, Grant and thus Lavenda, in his
research, concluded that Crowley and Lovecraft were channeling the same source. Even though
Lovecraft believed he was an atheist, they believed that he was hearing from the
same spirit entity that was speeding information to Alister Crowley. Well Kenneth Grant took
Crowley's teachings. As I said, Crowley believed he was welcoming in what he
called Eon of Horace, Horace, who was one of the Egyptian gods.
Grant developed his teachings and believed that what he was bringing in or inaugurating was
the eon of Set Well Set is the chaos god of Egypt, the god
the Greeks called Typhon, hence the Typhonian Order. So and it believed that
what he was hearing, or what he was what he had learned from the
teachings of Crowley, was what he called the serious set current or the set
serious current, in other words, something coming from the star system, serious,
from this entity, this chaos god, who was coming back to Earth
someday, just as Lovecraft wrote that these old gods would someday return when the
stars were right and reclaimed dominion over the Earth. And apparently Grant was very
disturbed about that and why he spent so much time researching and trying to develop
this form of chaos magic. Well, I don't know if your viewers listeners
are are familiar with chaos magic. It's certainly not something I'm very well educated
on. But apparently this is a bigger deal than I realized. And we
got into researching the book here it wasn't quite the direction we expected things to
go, but looking at this belief that and let me finish a point here
and come back to them why this is important. The reason this is important
was when you tie this together with the research of a gentleman named Jason Colobdo,
who was generally speaking as skeptic when it comes to the supernatural. He
shows that the fiction of HP. Lovecraft was very influential on the modern Ancient
Aliens movement, because after Lovecraft's death in nineteen thirty six, a number of
friends of Lovecraft kept writing in the same genre, using some of the creations
and creatures that Lovecraft invented, and Lovecraft's work was republished. It was sent
out to soldiers during World War Two to entertain them while they were out in
the trenches. The French, it turns out, in the nineteen fifties discovered
HP. Lovecraft and loved Lovecraft. His stuff was translated into French and republished
in a number of magazines there and a couple of science fiction magazine publishers named
Powells and Bergier, drawing on the work of Lovecraft and the themes that he
incorporated. It was cyclopean architecture, you know, megalithic structures that nobody could
explain, how they came to be old gods and the return of the return
of these old guys. Wrote a book called Morning of the Magicians, published
in about nineteen sixty which again explored a lot of these themes that we see
in ancient aliens today. Well. It was translated into English about sixty three,
sold pretty well, and like anything, when you create something new in
literature or movies or music that sells well, people pick up on it and
try to replicate it, copy it and sell their own well. One author
who picked up on Powells and Burgier's work inspired by Lovecraft, which Crowdy Successor
believed was just channel Alister Crowley, was a hotel operator in Switzerland by the
name of Eric Bondanikan and Bondanikin published Chariots of the Gods in nineteen seventy.
Powells and Burgier were not pleased because they felt that his work was a little
too close to theirs for coincidence. But be that as it may, Chariots
of the Gods become the best selling archaeology book in history, and Bondanikin has
gone on to sell something like sixty million copies of books around the world.
A couple of years after Chariots of the Gods, Zecharia Sitchen came along and
published The Twelfth Planet, which made the case that the Sumerian gods the Onunaki
were actually aliens who came to Earth and created humanity as a slave race.
Again, this tracks with some of the themes of Helena Blovotsky and Theosophy from
the eighteen eighties. So again you've got Blobotsky Crowley filtered through Lovecraft, repackaged
by Bonte anikin Incision, and now Ancient Aliens is in its twelfth season on
the History Channel. It is essentially warmed over occult teachings. In fact,
that's why there are some critics like Colobido who say Ancient Aliens is nothing more
than televangelism for Theosophy. So it's got religious overtones that I don't think people
who are intrigued by the idea or even aware of. I know a Zachariah
Stitch and I heard he was a very very nice man, but he had
he had some really far out things to say. And we've had Eric van
Danik canon a couple of times. Interesting man. I know, he's he's
had kind of a a little bit of a checkered pass on. A number
of people have sent me lengths and things. Still a nice man, you
know, seems to be a very fun person to talk to. I always
enjoy talking to him. Well, I didn't showing hiving a conversation with him.
I doubt that I would agree with him very much, but I certainly
don't want to be unkind to either him or to the late mister Sitchon,
who, yes, by all ac councils very nice. But I've been reading
a lot of Sumerian cosmology over the last couple of years. I'm not a
scholar in it, and I'm certainly not an expert in it, but I
have yet to see anything in any credential academic paper about what the Sumerians believed
about their gods that leads me to conclude that there was any hint that those
things were anything or thought to be anything other than supernatural beings. And our
friend doctor Michael Heiser, whose name I mentioned earlier, who can read the
Sumerian, has said that, you know, mister Sitchen just he either didn't
know what he was translating or because the words just don't say what he claimed
that they said. Right now, in your book you talk about Moufon,
and this is where you and I agree, and that is the fact that
the two thousand and seventeen you know, a symposium. Yeah, yeah,
I had some way way out fringy topics, and I think that was a
big mistake myself. I understand there's an entertainment value, but they you know,
it just muddies the water of people that are trying to figure this thing
out. So, um, not only that, let's talk about there's the
mof on Inner Circle. Yeah, and let's talk a little bit about that.
Um. And actually I think that's changed because I want to try to
find the website here today and could not find the listening of the Inner Circles.
So maybe I you know, the website has been updated and maybe the
circle has been changed. But I know this this came out just about the
time we went to Roswell last year, where there was a controversy about a
couple of things, and one of them I don't want to even get into
because I don't know enough of the backstory. It's about some personal beliefs of
one of the other members of the Inner Circle that had to do with just
yeah, an issue I don't want a cannon worms. I don't want to
open. But you talk about the racist remarks, yes, yeah, And
I don't know enough about that to say to make any comments on that.
But in the case of jay Z Knight, and you know, the Inner
Circle and move On at least, and that, in fact I put it.
That's one of the images I put in that it's up now right now,
okay. And I circled jay Z Knight because she is, or was,
at least at the time I took that, which was last July or
August, a member of the Inner Circle, which is sort of an advisory
council per move On, which builds itself as the world's leading organization for the
scientific investigation of unidentified flying objects. Well, there's no nice way to put
this, but jay Z Knight is a cult leader, and she claims to
channel a thirty six thousand year old warrior from the lost continent of Lemuria.
Now, again, Lemuria goes right back to Helena Blobotsky. That was part
of her teachings the origin of humanity. The root races came from this continent
of Lemuria, where the noble warriors of Lemuria had to do battle with the
evil wizards and sorcerers of Atlantis. Again, there's been no hard evidence that
either of those continents exist. In fact, Lemuria was only hypothesized eighteen sixty
six. What is it a paleontologist or who noticed that there were similar monkey
fossils in India and a Maticascar. Now, if you look at a globe
and you see that there's an awful lot of ocean between India and Meticascar.
So he was trying to figure out how you could get Lemur fossils small monkeys
that are almost identical in those two places. So hence there must have been
a lost continent somewhere in the Indian Ocean. Thus Lemuria that became part of
Lavotsky's religion. That's who Jay Z Knight channels as her source of spiritual wisdom,
Ranth of the Enlightened One, and somehow she was able to pay the
fee to become a member of the Inner Circle of Muffan. I can see
serious thousand dollars a five thousand dollars donation, Yeah, and I can I
can see how serious researchers into UFOs who would be a little a little upset
at that. I think it's I don't think it's a good idea at all.
Anytime anything like that happens, then you're putting some type of control in
the hands of someone that doesn't necessarily deserve it. And I listened to Kevin
Randall was doing a show for a short time, and here's one of the
articles that I read about that. Yeah, he interviewed Source of Permission.
Yes, he interviewed Jan Harson, and he he is m He basically asked
them flat out, why are you doing that? You know? I mean,
it's it's really you know, he called them on it, and I
think it's um I've I think I'm not a move on member right now.
I don't have you know, things against them, but I do think that
they have taken a few wrong turns. U Jan Harson's trying to do a
really good job. He's got a lot of pressure on his plate to bring
membership up. Membership is not it's only like thirty five U or something like
that. It's not a really big membership. So but when these people are
donating five thousand dollars to get into the inner circle, I just think that's
a I think that's taboo for any organization. Myself. Well, yeah,
I think that's that opens a kind of words. It's it's a dangerous practice.
And as you mentioned, there's some other controversy about that as well.
But especially when you've got somebody who's approaching topic this way from from her perspective,
that that really is a Clini knows the orderzation I belong to. We
certainly wouldn't want somebody on the board of directors who brings a worldview that would
call our work, that would be contrary to what we believe, but would
call our organization into into question in any way. So again, you know,
one of our friends, good friend Joe Jordan, was a is still
a director with MUFAN. He came out of the state of Florida. He's
now the national director for South Korea. But like me, like Josh,
he is a professing Christian, openly Christian, and what led him to his
Christian faith was his research, his investigations into the abduction phenomenon and found that,
to his surprise, there were a number of cases that other researchers had
basically not publicized or not told anyone about because they didn't know what to make
of the information, which was that the abductions could be stopped by people calling
on the name of Jesus. You know, if these were entities from another
world, one wonders why that would happening effect whatsoever. But if this was
a spiritual phenomenon, and in the Bible we see that the demons that Jesus
encountered were always subject to people giving them commands in his name, that well,
that is an interesting bit of evidence. And as he began to research,
he found more and more of these cases. And Joe, like Josh,
admits that at the time he began his investigations, he was a he
was a new ager. He said, you know, carry into crystals and
you know, doing all you know, the meditating and stuff as a like
a good new ager. And those are basically how Joe describes it now how
I would describe it. But but he says, the evidence just led him
in a different direction. And so you know, that's really what Josh and
I are saying. Let's just find all of the evidence where it leads.
And again, it may be that I'm wrong. Maybe extraterrestrials do exist and
that God decided it wasn't important for us to know and put it in the
Bible. I don't think that's the case, but you know, hey,
I could be wrong about that. But what I do know is that what
the Bible tells me is that me you everyone watching this assuming you're human,
created in God's image, created in God's image, and that status will not
change regardless, regardless of what happens in the future. Interesting, I like
talking to people like you because, you know, just because one of the
reasons I do this show is that I just like to hear people's opinions of
what they think is going on. And this is certainly one that I have
not heard before. I'm glad to hear that, because we were hoping that
that would be the case. There was a a talking point you had here
about what wiki leaks revealed about the role of the pope and the previous US
presidents. I didn't know there was something in those leaked emails that had directly
to do with that. There was something you found, Well, this is
actually that's a section of the book that Josh really dug into. So I
would prefer it if Josh, you know, if media comp hadn't shut that,
if Russia I hadn't shut up Josh tonight, that's probably what they were
trying to stop, because he's better educated on that. There was another point
that it just occurred to me. I never got back to when I was
talking about the whole Lulu bandanikin thing. And this gets back to the chaos
magic aspect of it. If you don't mind, if I can just elucid
because this comes back to the Bible in GENESISI one, verse two. There
is a verse there, and let me bring it up here electronically, because
it deals with an entity that this Kenneth Grant, who was Alister Early's successor,
named as the God that he believed was reaching out to try to contact
him, this typhon or set, this God of chaos, who he believed
we needed to get right with because he was coming back someday. And actually
this is an entity that's mentioned in the Bible, but it's just another one
that we never hear about it the church because you start digging into theology,
you start digging into the original Hebrew text and it gets a little complex.
But you know, I would suggest when you're dealing with matters of eternal consequence,
you know, like heaven and Hell, maybe it's worth our time to
study it. Anyway. In the beginning, God created the heavens in the
earth, the earth was without form and void, and darkness was over the
face of the deep. The word translated deep there is a Hebrew word to
home. That word to home is a cognate that means same word different language
with the Nkadian word tempt. That word ten Tun was the name of the
chaos dragon of Sumerian mythology called Tiamat, and this chaos dragon or the chaos
serpent shows up in a number of ancient Near Eastern religions. In the Bible,
it's called Leviathan. The Canaanites had a name for it. They called
it Lo Tan you had set and Typhon. Typhon was the Greek version of
this chaos monster. But the theme was the same in all of these ancient
religions that a warrior god. In the Bible, it's Yahweh. The Sumerians
it was first end Lil, and then later it was Marduk. When the
Babylonians took over. In the Canaanite mythology, it was Bail, and then
Zeus in the Greek myth had to defeat the chaos monster Typhon in order to
establish order out of chaos, if you will. But this theme was that
chaos was represented by the ocean and especially sea monster. Do you see it
mentioned a few times in the Bible, there are times when the ocean is
clearly used as a symbol for chaos or disorder. But we see that even
though this chaos entity is defeated by the second verse of the Bible, it's
not dead. I mean, it's supernatural. It's not dead yet. But
there's an interesting reference right at the end of the Bible in the second to
last chapter, Revelation chapter twenty one. And of course, now our internet
is getting slow. The apostle John in Revelation twenty one rights, then I
saw a new Heaven and a new Earth, for the first heaven and the
first Earth had passed away. This is a prophecy of something in the future,
a new Heaven and a new Earth, because the first one passed away.
But then he adds, and the sea was no more. The sea
was no more. Well, obviously the first Heaven the first Earth passed away.
The sea would have passed away with the first Earth, right the John
separately, because again in the Bible and in the ancient Near East for thousands
of years, the sea represented chaos. Was this chaos entity. In fact,
in the Canaanite myth, their chief god Bail, who was the storm
god, had to fight against the god of the sea called Yam and defeat
it in order to claim his kingship over the gods. The Bible reflects this
Genesis one, verse two, spirit of God hovering over the face of the
deep, almost as though it was containing it and keeping it restrained. But
it isn't until Revelation twenty one knew Heaven new Earth, and the sea chaos
was no more. Kenneth Grant believes that this chaos monster set or Typhon,
is what's coming back, and he developed his whole magical system about it.
Do a search on the web if you're feeling brave for chaos magic. You'll
see a lot of information out there about how to practice it and what's good
for today. I don't recommend dabbling in it, obviously as a Christian.
I'm just telling you that it's out there. It's a thing. But the
thing that I find really curious about this is that the search for extraterrestrial intelligence,
which is the search for signals coming from outer space. The acronym Seti
is the Egyptian word that means man of set, man of the chaos god,
and Richard Greer's organization, the Center for the Study of extra Terrestrial Intelligence
c SET. Likewise Man of Set, probably a coincidence. Probably fine,
Oh, I don't know. So the Bible, you know, you were
talking about translation. You know, it was I guess from Hebrew to Greek
sometime around the third century BC, and then the Dead Sea scrolls were found.
But the translation of the Bible. Then there's King James Bible, and
then there's them I don't know what you would call it, the when they
changed everything everything to yao, thou shalt and all that stuff. You know,
there's been many translations, is what I'm getting at. How do we
know how? First of all, you know this is of course is a
show about UFOs, But it's still interesting to me to ask you this question.
How do we know what you're reading today in the Bible? Is anything
like? It's kind of like the game Telephone. What started out as that's
a really excellent question, and it gets back to what I said earlier that
there are more old copies of texts for the Bible than there is for anything
else out of the ancient world. The oldest complete copy of the book probably
goes back about three twenty six And you think, okay, well that's three
hundred years after Jesus died. That's not very new. Well yeah, okay,
but the oldest copy that we have rather, yeah, the oldest copy
of anything that we've got from say Julius Caesar, who lived about fifty years
before Jesus of Nazareth. Date's about a thousand BC. Are thousand a d.
Rather, So you've got a thousand years But nobody questions that Julius Caesar
actually wrote his history of how he defeated the Celtic tribes in Gaul. There
are other examples like that. But the thing that really got it for me
is this when you look at the letters of the Early Church Fathers, and
we're talking about before the Council of Nicea, because I know there are a
lot of people who think, oh, yeah, Constantine the Great basically took
the books that he want and throw everything else out at the Council of Nicea.
Well, that's actually not true. But setting that aside, when you
take the letters of the Early Church Fathers from the second early second through early
third century, so about from one hundred a d. To the early two
hundreds, the letters that they wrote back and forth, they quoted so much
scripture new Testament Scripture New Testament Scripture, that you could reconstruct the entire New
Testament from their writings except for about fifteen verses, and none of those fifteen
verses have anything to do with doctrine. In other words, Jesus died in
the ground three days, rose again from the dead, died for our sins.
None of that was in those fifteen missing verses. So you can use
their letters as a cross check on what we got later to see if stuff
has changed. And scholars who have done this, they found that the Bible
is over ninety eight percent the New Testament over ninety eight percent unchanged, and
none of those two and most of those two percent changes are like you know,
grammatical things or or you know, missing diacritical marks of apostrophees and commas
and things. So again they can really, we really can know the texts,
texts that we have been accurately preserved for the last two thousand years.
Interesting, Yeah, but how you know, getting back to the languages,
you know, I know that that's always tough to translate wondering whige to another
you know, I mean, but we get the gist of it is in
the stories of the stories which I think are kind of some of them are
pretty far out there. And then you know, for God asking Abraham to
sacrifice his son, that is one thing I just I don't get. I
don't think there would be a god like that. I don't get that.
Well, that's interesting you mentioned it, because that's actually an area of study.
An that you mentioned that I'm going to have to include them in the
forthcoming book. In the culture from which Abraham emerged, that was actually not
uncommon. That was not uncommon. Now again we have to assume that there
were other small g gods, fallen angels if you prefer, who were whispering
things in other ears. But when you look at the religion of the ancient
world, the amor Rights in particular, who were a people known the scholars
for you last couple hundred years, But in days of Abraham, they controlled
the entire ancient nearest everything on a map today that's Iraq, Syria, Jordan,
Israel, Lebanon, even northern Egypt. I mean, when the Israelites
were in Egypt, they weren't Egyptians ruling northern Egypt. They were amor Rights.
They were Semitic speaking people like the Hebrews, and they were really into
venerating dead ancestors and sacrificing children if need be, in order to ensure the
favor of their gods. In fact, in May, my wife and I
and a group of about one hundred people are touring Israel, Jordan and then
going to Roman Sardinia with a smaller group. And one of the things we'll
be looking at are the toe FETs of the Phoenicians, who were the descendants
of the Amorrits, where they sacrificed their children to their gods. So this
was not an unknown thing. But when God said okay, do this,
okay, testing Abraham's faith, but then he stopped him and say, okay,
stop, this is not who I am. Look over here there's a
ram cotton the thicket sacrifice that instead. But yeah, shout sacrifice, adult
sacrifice not an uncommon thing in the ancient world. Yeah, not good either.
So your next books, we talked a little bit just before the start
of the show, is kind of going. This trip that you're going to
be making sounds absolutely fantastic, And is that in part of research for this
book you have and go ahead and announce what that's going to be. Well,
we'll be in Israel from May six through the sixteenth, and then heading
from there to Jordan for a few days. We'll get to see mountain Ebo,
where Moses looked across the Jordan River to see the promised land. We'll
also get to see some of those Dolmans, which are like good miniature stone
hinges. Yes, I saw them in Russia. They're really interesting. They
don't even know how old they are because they're made of stone. They could
be twenty five thousand years old. They have no idea exactly. Most scholars
in the ancient year East along the Jordan River bound they put into a three
thousand years or so, which is just four Abraham came along three or four
thousand years or so. But still we'll get a chance to see those,
and it is significant. I don't want to take too much time here,
but it ties in with the prophecy of God, and may God there's a
curious reference to something called the Valley at the Travelers in the prophecy of that
war that relates to the Dolmans. But then we'll be going on the nineteenth
of May to Rome and then to Sardinians, so we'll get the tour of
the Vatican. We'll also see the historical sites of Rome and then in Sardinia,
where there are a number of tofats, which are ritual sites where children
were sacrificed and buried to their god bail Hammon, whose scholars equated with the
Greek god Chronos or Saturn of the Romans l of the Canaanites. The Chronos,
of course, was the god who Zeus and the Olympians, leader of
the Titans, who Zeus and the Olympians overthrew and then sent down to Tartarus.
There's actually a mention in the Bible of angels who sinned and were punished
by being sent to Tartarus. Wow. I don't know how we could have
ever had the mindset that it's okay to sacrifice our children. That's just horrible.
But but God ever entered his mind, So that's that's part of the
point. These these are rebel gods who convinced the people around ancient Israel to
do it. And I mean, if if we looked to hear it in
our continent, it was a sacrifice. It was a practice that was taking
place here in the Americus. Yeah, there's a lot of things that have
taken place. Um yeah, I know, even um, slavery among Native
Americans, even you know, among themselves. Um so, a lot of
things that we don't know about or ever talked about in history learned in school.
Anyway, Thanks so much, it's been a real pleasure. And again,
hold your book up for the people on YouTube. One more time.
Can you hear me? Okay, well I think we just lost him.
Did we just lose you? All right? Um he's gone. Oh there
you are. Okay, yeah, more time. Oh, appreciate it again.
Website is Official disclosure dot com. It's official disclosure dot com. Official
disclosure dot com. Thanks so much, it's been a real pleasure. All
right. Um, let's see all right, you can if you could.
I'm having trouble with this skype. I'm gonna have to ask you to hang
up if you would. Thank you very much. All right, all right,
everyone appreciate it. I really enjoyed it. Yes I did too,
Thank you all right. Everyone. So that's it for the show. Thanks
so much for checking us out and listening. If you support the show,
thanks so much. If you'd like to do that, um, and you
haven't, all you have to do is go to podcast ufo dot com and
that's right there. Um, so we'll be back next week with Greg Bishop.
I'm really excited about that. Um he's got a wonderful podcast called Radio
Mysterio. So and so he'll be on next week. He'll be live streaming
U with us here as usual. And I want to thank some people that
help out with the show. First of all, Evan the show producer,
thank you. We had a challenge tonight and you pulled through. I also
want to thank Peggy for managing the Facebook page. You can like us on
Facebook. I think we have a lot of people there and there's postings every
day on that site. We also have a guest blog. You can check
that out at podcast ufo dot com and that's about to the Stars an opinion
about that. So that's it, and I hope I didn't leave anyone else
for Yeah, of course I want to thank our guests Derek Gilbert that was
on the show tonight. I don't want to forget that. And so that's
it, and thank you all and remember to keep your eyes to the sky.