A a a Hey everyone, thanks so much for tuning in to this special
five hundredth episode of Dog Meaning Counters Radio. It's so hard to just wrap
my mind around the fact that we're at the five hundredth episode now. I
mean, it seems like just yesterday August twenty second of twenty fifteen. When
I heard that first episode, it seems like it was just yesterday. There's
a little funny, behind the scenes bit of info I'm gonna share with you
when I aired that episode. When I recorded Episode one, of course,
I was getting my feet wet and how I was going to handle things,
and I didn't have a digital recorder back then. So we recorded that first
episode, and then after we wrapped, I went to check on the digital
file on the computer and it was gone. So right then and there,
I learned the importance of not relying on recording onto the computer, but rather
recording right into a digital recorder. Luckily, the guests were nice enough to
run it back and redo that whole recording right then and there. If they
wouldn't have done that, then I would have really been in a spot.
But just behind the scenes information that I wanted to share with you about what
happened with that first episode. Anyway, talking about the fact that it's the
five hundredth episode, I can't thank you as the listeners enough for supporting the
show the way you have. And by supporting this, you're not just supporting
the show, you're supporting the listeners. If you had a clue how much
your support has helped so many eyewitnesses, you just wouldn't believe it. It
helps so much more than you're ever gonna know, and I can't thank you
enough for that. But having said all that, for tonight's show, tonight's
guest has had encounters with dog men that just might be as intense or more
intense, and pretty much any encounters that we've aired on this show. I
mean when you listen to what he went through, Wow, he really went
through it. But without any further ado, let's bring him on here now,
Matt, please give us a brief bio in yourself from a small town
Isle and I'm thirty nine years old, blue collar fabrication welder worker. I
have five children and my wife and they're all really good and uh just simple
dude. Well that is given yourself enough credit there. You're not a simple
dude, but you're just being humble, That's all it is. Matt.
You've always had a love of wolves. Have your encounters with dog men affected
that? No, not really? Actually, I oh a wolf hybrid.
So, speaking of wolves hybrids, you had a female wolf hybrid with you
when you have these encounters. What can you tell us about her? Her
name was Crystal, and she was a hybrid gray wolf with German shepherd.
She was almost pure, pure white, a little bit of beige in her,
and then her eyes were a golden orange, just like a type of
wolf's. She was a great dog, very protective of me and my brother's
growing up. And she's very very good. I mean she had the qualities
of a wolf for sure, but also the qualities of German shepherd, which
I think it worked out pretty good. It was one of the best dogs
I ever owned in my life. Listening to you describe her, she sure
does sound like she was a great dog, a really good one. You
had your first inc You had your first encounter in the summer of eighty six
and the woods near the village of Savona, Ohio. How much time did
he spend in the woods back then? It was nineteen ninety six in July
and hot, and as kids, that's really all we had to do was
grow up there and just the woods was our thing. That we built forts
back there, jumped dirt, bikes and bikes, and just we did everything
you think of for at the time that we were doing that. We like
playing survival, so we would always get our backpacks full of just odds and
d stuff to think of what we would need to be on our own as
kids, you know, twelve years old at thirteen, and we just had
a good time, built little fires back there and played in the cornfields that
we were around in the woods and just untill I really had to do in
a little small town. So that's a great way to grow up, spending
all that time out in the woods. Yeah, if more kids grew up
that way, the world would be a much better place. Speaking of that
first encounter, it had a positive dog man related element to it, and
it also had really bad ones as well. Knowing it could have left you
with somewhat positive views of dog men or monstrous views of them. How do
you view them? Well? How to taste the boat? So I don't
you know, like we had discussed, and it could have been the case
of good cop, bad cop type deal, and I can see dogman working
together like that. You know, It's weird after I got done talking to
you, because I never really put a thought to it about the brown one
as far as it probably could be playing. But I also still have this
sneaky suspicion that it was a young one but and not knowing what you know,
the ways of what dogmen typically do from what I've heard from other encounters,
which is scared of crap out of people. But I got a taste
of both, so it was My thoughts are kind of open still, like
I don't want to go out and searching for one. I know what they're
capable of, what could they do, and I can only imagine, But
yeah, I don't think you can have one of the pet that's for sure.
Poor buddy for that matter. That's pretty much what I think about him.
Yeah, definitely not a pet. I don't see that happening. Maybe
somewhat of an amicable relationship where Okay, that's you over there and this is
me over here, but as far as patting its head and play fetch and
all that stuff, yeah, not going to happen. But I don't know
what they fetched for you. I imagine, Yeah, yeah, dear buddy
might come back with a leg Yeah, no kidding. You never know.
All right, Matt, You've got a lot to unpack for us, so
please tell us about your encounters. Now, give us every last detail that
comes to mind. Okay, Well, it was July, I think mid
July nineteen ninety six. I was twelve, and my brother was twelve.
He's my stepbrother, and my other brother was older than me. It was
my stepbrother. But we lived outside of the woods. Was probably about i'd
say a couple of football fields that we lived from it, and where we
lived at there was two horseshoes that they called the horseshoes. So you turn
into it and basically you got houses that you drive by and then yards and
you circle around like a horseshoe fashion. And in between the horseshoe fashion was
of woods that went back along a torn out railroad track. Well, that
torn out railroad track also ran alongside a I guess it was it's pervicco feed
grain that was there at one point. I don't know if it's still there.
I don't think it is. There was also back in the day before
I was even born. There was like a little grocery store that ran along
the railroad too, and then that got turned into a big giant house.
But so the woods had a runoff pond from the grain bind that was right
behind the pond, and you would see all kinds of stuff out there,
frogs, everything. People even dropped their goldfish out there and you'd see goldfish.
And so it was the woods would go along the torn out tracks for
miles and like, I still don't know where to hell those railroads laid it
led to, but I know also there's like woods that went along the I
would say the west, going towards west and then south and west. So
it was kind of like an angle of woods that would go along the whole
bay, huge long trail going west, and then the railroad tracks were going
south and north, but we had huge mounds that were back there. It
led to trails that we had created copping out like branches and trees and routs
out of the system so our bikes wouldn't get caught up in them and everything
else. But there was a lot of brush and a lot of thickness toward
the pond area, and we really never went around the pond area but there
was a trail that went through going toward the west. So one day we
were doing the whole survival game. It was like a Saturday, I think
either was Saturday Sunday. But I put a whole bunch of stuff in my
book bag and I was going to meet my two brothers back there in the
woods with our neighbor. Our neighbor girl, she was a tom girl.
She's like our sister, and so we always hung out together. So I
had Crystal with me, my wolf I IB. We were going in there.
I had Blogney in my backpack. And but at first we were throwing
stuff like everywhere, like I would throw anything and she would go and fetch
it woods and she'd just come back tralloping and all that kind of stuff.
And then the one time she didn't come back, and I was like,
well, okay, I was sitting there looking around for looking around for her,
and then I happened. I noticed probably about i'd say I was twelve,
and I was probably a good five seven five eight then, and I
not was aaus, I'm walking around something. I was like it looked like
it was about thirty three feet up and there was brushed all the way around
it, and I noticed it looked like my dog Crystal, but it was
real dark brown, and I had a black stream line going down it's muzzle.
And I looked at it and I was like, wait, man,
I did a double take, and I just happened. I was like,
well, that looks just like Crystal. What the world? And you know,
for me and for us, we saw animals back there all the time,
including deer, raccoon, possum, and you know, other people's dogs
and neighbors dogs and stray dogs and whatever basically came down the railroad track.
It was back there, but it always seen us, and they'd either be
friendly or they'd just move along. And as I'm looking at this thing,
it looks at me, and it looks at me just like my dog's Ata
does at me when like she's a hambered and wondering what I'm doing. And
she's got yellow eyes just like this one had yellow like yellowish amber eyes,
almost like fire but not, but you could definitely tell as it looked at
you popped out and I was like, oh, there's another dog, That's
what I thought. So I reached my backpack and got the bologna out,
and I was like, well, while Crystal's out and about, I want
to go ahead and just hook this little dude up with some baloney. So
I threw a piece of bolognia over at it, and I was watching it,
and I grabbed a piece of bloney and I ate it and was showing
it that it's okay or whatever to eat it. It's sniffing, it's doing
its side to side motion up and down. It's looking at me like what
you do? What's that? And like it turned its head a little bit
to the left or right, I can't remember which one, but cocked it
head like a dog wood. And I'm only seeing the head of this thing.
And it was a massive head even you know, considered what the dogman
encounters I've heard and seeing myself the eight foots its eyes were probably like six
inches apart, and I was like, this is a big fill. I
don't know what kind of dog is. It was a big one. And
so like it got done sniffing, and it seemed to eat, and it
kind of showed its teeth but didn't it kind of it's like a half half
show. I don't know if you've ever seen dogs do that or not.
But it went down to smelled blooneia, and then all of a sudden,
it just started eating it and then apparently liked it because it started moving out
of the brush a little bit. And I guess the head kind of was,
I don't know how to say it, like coned it. Just as
it's coming out, you can see it like getting a little bit bigger because
you can see more details of the head. And I seen a little bit
of the neck at that point, and I was like, this is a
little bit bigger than a normal What the hell is this thing? I don't
think this is a dog. And I was like, it looks just like
Crystal, but way bigger and crystal. She just looked like a wolf,
big tongue, like what you would see in the wild. And so I
threw another piece of boloney at it, and I grabbed another piece and I
sat there and ate it and d ate the other piece, and then I
threw a couple more at it, and it started coming out for and as
it came out further, it was just almost all brown, just dark brown.
And at this point in time you can see like the muscle definition.
And this is like one o'clock during the day, so the sun is like
literally bright, but it's where we were at. It was kind of dark
for you know, as much brush was there, but you can see the
definition of muscle on this bad boy. I was like, Okay, this
is kind of creepy. What's going on here? And you know, as
it came out further and further, I threw another piece of bloonney like to
get it to kind of not come out any further because it was starting to
freak me out. And as I was looking, it didn't have like it
didn't have like paws like a dog, but it looked like a freaking super
built up muscular like pitbull front legs, but with hands like like all the
other encounters, really like the raccoon hands, but just beefy. And I
was at that point in time, maybe know being a kid, I didn't
know what I was looking at. You know, what I did think of
at the time was that it looked like the American werewolf in London type of
wolf, but like without looking crazy. And it looked like it had a
curious demeanor on it, like it didn't seem like its defenses were up.
It seemed I guess the word best word to be curious. It just and
it kind of just came out a little further. And as it came out
further, and then my all of a sudden, my doll, Crystal,
she all just started bolting tortoise and scared crap out of me because she's just
barking and ground behind and she's got in front of me. And as she
got in front of me, was ground and barking, and her ears were
caught down and cocked back at an angle like she was. I've never seen
her like that either, And she growled like something the double would do or
something. And this thing started showing its teeth and it growled a little bit,
and then next thing, you know, the trees in the distance,
probably thirty yards away, started splitting, and I was like, what in
the And I'm sitting there trying to look at the trees on the back and
looking at this thing in front of me and trying to get Crystal away,
and then the tree and it's getting closer towards me, and that it's just
I just seen the massive black head just pop. It was so fast I
didn't even have time to say what and up and it was on me.
It was right in front of me, and at that point in time,
and the brown one turned around like almost like a I don't know if you've
ever seen a cat jump up and then shift its weight to look back,
and it seemed that. And then it went up and it literally backed into
me and was basically it seemed like it was I don't know if it was
trying to protect me or what, but that was the sense I got out
of it. Crystals. In the meantime, she's pulling on my jeans trying
to get me to go, and I'm just stuck where I'm at. I
didn't know what to do. And what I'm looking at in front of the
brown one is this giant terminator looking steroided out black one with fur everywhere and
it's big dog haunchers and his calves on. This thing was as big as
my head. And I'm just looking at this thing. I wanting to cry,
wanting to just anything could think of it. I'm so stunned and shocked
at the same time. I just like, what do you do when it's
something that you see? Now that I can relate that one to would be
like the van helsing where wolf the black one and then the brown one looked
like the brown one in the van helsing one but different. And then the
black one had a lot more fur than the one in the van helsing.
But its eyes were God, those eyes were like fire like it was looking
at you could look at it without like actually looking down to look at it
was to feel like certain death, to be honest with you, that was
the fear. The feeling I got like I'm going to die if this if
I look at this thing in the eyes or anywhere near its face. And
the brown one just kind of kicked me back away from me and the black
woman it resembled like a parent scorning a child, or like somebody just yelling
at another one, and it's kind of like taking it, you know.
And Crystal pull means she's starting to drag me at that point in time,
because I've seen her drag deers. She had two deers, and she's dragged
out that wood before for our family left the backyard for us, and I
guess I was a perk of having a wolf fire. But she had started
dragging me out, and I kind of caught like conscious or whatever, and
I was probably about twenty or thirty yards from the exit of the woods,
and I freaking paled like as fast as I could, and Crystal was right
next to me as I was running away and finally got to my house.
I didn't even stop running. I finally got there. That was the end
of the first encounter. I didn't see nothing, to hear nothing after that
for a minute. So it was I don't even think it was a week
later, not even maybe a couple of days. I'm at sleeping at night
time. And this is in regards to the second encounter. And it must,
it must attract me back to my house being only like two football fields
away, I'm sure, and everything else that I've heard on other counters,
that's what happens. It sensed me and smelled me and probably smelled my dog
and tracked me back to my house. And like, as I was sleeping,
I felt like I was getting talked to in my head and like I
was having a weird dream, like like I don't know how to explain it,
like like don't come into the woods, the woods aren't safe right now,
and YadA, YadA, YadA. And I woke up to tapping on
glass and there it was the brown one and I could see it almost we
had a light on the left side. As I'm looking out of my window.
We had a light on my neighbor's house and it wasn't directly shining on
it, but it was like a glare off that light that you could see
it without being in the light. So I knew it was the brown One.
And it was almost like it was talking to me in my sleep.
And it was weird because I know it sounds crazy, but that's what it
felt like. And I didn't even feel like I was in danger with that
Brown One, and I kind of freaked out and I didn't know what to
do, and I ran to my mom and dad in their room. They
told me I was having a nightmare and it was the werewolf movies. That
I need to stop the were wolf movies. And I'm like, I have
only watched like two or three of them in my life, halling gain.
One of them was Scared the Crap album I was a kid, and I
want to say Silver Bullet and American Worbolf from London, those are the ones.
As a kid, I was like, I never watched I watched them
one time and never wanted to watch them again. Just scared the crap out
of me. But I went back to my room when mom and dad told
me to go back to my room and they weren't there. It wasn't there,
and they just kept telling me it was a dream and I'm like,
no, this was real, and I'm telling you it was. They argued
with me for a while and they thought I was crazy, and I told
my brothers about it, told my neighbor about it, and they all did
that I was nuts and it was just another dog and just I'm messing with
him, which I kind of can't blame him because I wasn't jokester back in
the day, and yeah, being an immateurre a twelve year old and just
growing up with them and stuff. But that was the end of my second
encounter. My third encounter with them was at nighttime again, and this it
was way worse than any other ones. I was sitting there sleeping, and
again it felt like I was This time, I felt like really weird and
scared, like something was wrong, and you just get that sensation of like
something's bad and it's about to happen. And it woke me up out of
dead sleep and as I'm looking the I kind of shake a little bit now
and I'm really getting out of this. Uh. I see the black one
and it's huge and it's literally staring right at me, and you can see
the fog from its breath, and it was a cool night, and its
hand was like a third of my window and its head was the rest of
it, and as like it was, it licked the window and I could
see the eyes just glowing at me, and then it licks the window.
It glicks the fog right off that window, and it's just smell smelling me,
and I don't know what to do on that when I freaked out and
went back to mom and Dad's room again, and Dad got up and looked
and wasn't there. And that just that one threw me for a loop because
it basically, you know, I heard the growl and it rattled the window,
and it almost like it rattles the very core of your body when you
happens. And the fourth one, it wasn't so bad, but it was
scary and I was sleeping again, and the brown werewolf or dog man,
what do you want to call it, basically was there and like it.
I swear it sounds weird, but it's like it was talking to me.
And I said that you don't have to worry no more. We're getting ready
to leave. The woods will be fine and safe. That's the vibe I
was getting in my head like it was weird, and the Black One pushed
it over and kind of gave me this sneer and growl and I disappeared.
And it's pretty much the gist of it. Those were allmind counters. That's
way too much for any kid to have to deal with, for any adult
to deal with. But when you're that young, yeah, you just don't
handle stressful situations nearly as well as an adult. Wood. But like I
said, even if you're an older adult, I mean, how do you
take those experiences and deal with them in a healthy way? Yeah, that's
not easy at all. Matt. I've got a question for you from fiber
Geek, and fiber Geek wants to know, Matt, do you think the
Big One was a male protecting a female or maybe a parent protecting a child.
I never thought about the aspect of a female during the story. I
likened it to a parent protecting a child. It's the only thing I can
think of because of how Crystal was acting toward it is the literal only reason
I can think of that it did what it did. But it could be
just me being in the mere presence of it, I don't know, Or
it could have been both. I mean, I try to put myself in
the shoes as the black woman, and if I would have saul or sensed
my young one or my woman, you know, or my female and some
sort of danger, I would have definitely done the same thing to you know
that I think about it. So it very well could have been both or
one or the other as far as that goes. Did you notice any anatomical
features on the brown one that might have given the impression it might have been
a female. No, I didn't notice any of that that, you know,
in my recollection, females, you know, as far as dogs as
I'm looking at it as a kid, females always had their I guess,
aerials or you know, they're teats that have like six of them, you
know, three on each side going down towards their stomach area. And that's
you know, that's where I would have thought it would have been if I
just I didn't notice anything like that. It's just too enambored with what the
hell was in front of me. Oh of course, yeah, if you
have all that going on. Looking for teats is the last thing that's going
to be in your mind. But when it comes to female dog man,
it can go both ways. Some female dogmen have two teats, others have
molultiples. So there really is no rhyme nor reason on that looks like.
I have another question for you from Aline Isabelle, and that question is couldn't
your dad see any lick marks on your window? Well? Yeah, probably,
but we had dogs and all that kind of stuff, so they were
always on our windows or you know, as out in the country, it
is dirt on your windows regardless if you especially since we lived next to a
field, so I mean a very welcome That's not something I would have.
I mean, you see paul marks on our glass and all the time,
so that's just not something that was strange to us. No, I understand.
I've got another question for you from shennon human Easier and Shannon's question is
where did this happen? At? What state? Happened in Savonnah village?
All right. When we had that first conversation, Matt, I was really
on the fence about whether to pose that possibility, to raise that possibility to
you about it possibly being a situation where those two were playing good dog me
and bad dog mean on you. That maybe they're in on that together,
but I don't really see any benefit to them doing that. If they would
have done that to manipulate you into letting your guard down, that'd be one
thing, and then later after the fact, do something that would exploit that,
exploit the fact that you'd lowered your guard. But nothing like that ever
happened. So the more I think about it, I just doubt that was
the case. I think that brown one actually was displaying altruistic behavior, trying
to look out for your best interests. I really do. Like I said
that, it's kind of what I gathered from it, Like it didn't seem
like it was wanting to harm me when it showed I showed it like you
know, I guess kindness in a way like you've given free food out to
somebody, and not showing any type of ill will towards something or someone.
If they're this intelligent creature that I've heard from other people on other encounters and
as far as when we had discussed you said they were super intelligent, and
I feel like they're intelligent myself, so I don't see any reason. Well,
they definitely are super intelligent. Yeah, definitely. I've got another question
for you from Blood Vipa, and his question is do you think your dad
denied it trying to protect you. I don't know, to be honestly,
I know he made me watch a lot of world movies afterwards. I don't
know if you liked it because I've freaked out about them or what. But
he might have probably tried to desensitize me with all watching them, because that
was what he would do all the time for a good month. Huh.
That is strange. Maybe he was trying to in some way desensitize you.
After all. It's hard to say that was a good way to do it
because some movies back in the day when I was a kid, you scared
the crap out of me. So then you have those experiences, Yeah,
those are and you see what's messed up. It's like, I really I
stopped even trying to talk about that kind of stuff because you know, when
your own dad, your own mom, your own brothers, and your neighbor
he was all close to you, tell you you just full of crap and
you're just joking. I was like, I know, I promise you I'm
not joking literally, I wish that. You know. It's to the point
where, like I almost wish I had a claw mark or something just to
prove them, like I got a slice luck. I don't know why you
can't believe me, but after a while, you know, I'm almost forty
twelve years old. It's twenty eight years of really not being able to talk
about it. Yeah, it's really unfortunate. I call that a prison without
walls. So many eyewitnesses go through that, they have these horrendous encounters with
dog men, and unfortunately they can't reach out to their significant others in a
lot of cases or they're a family because they become a punchline if they do.
If I had a nickel for every time I was told that someone told
their significant other about a bad dogman encounter and they were made fun of,
and then after that did every family get together. They become the punchline.
Family members poke fun at them for their quote unquote where wolf encounter, I'd
be a really rich man. And if it doesn't, it just doesn't get
more disgusting than that. That's just horrible. It really is. You told
us about how much time you like to spend in the woods before these encounters
happened. But after the encounters did happen, did you spend any time in
the woods or did you just totally swear off going back in. It was
let's see, it happened. Yeah, it happened in the timeframe which was
weird, from ninety six of summer of ninety six to the fall of ninety
seven. That was the lasting encounter we had, and I really didn't go
back there too much, if at all. It just didn't, you know,
feel right. But after that last encounter, basically, you know,
I didn't know if it was trying to be legit tell me that they were
no longer growing to be in the area or something. I noticed we didn't
have any deer anymore, Like nobody hunted back there, no more, not
for sure. Yeah, there was no deer ever, so I know those
were probably taken out and it must have went dry or on the food source,
you know what I mean. There was there was a pond there,
yeah, but it was a lot of the wildlife that was missing. You
know, we used to see a bunch it was teeming with wildlife on our
woods and we had cornfields one side beans on another. So they had an
ample amount of food supply anywhere they went as far as the animals, so
there would be no reason why they would not be there. So but during
the fall time we started going back there again that we would do, you
know, our bike riding, our sledding back here because of all the drifts
and stuff, and well, they were never there anymore. And you could
definitely tell because the trees had no leaves, there was no brush, no
nothing. You could actually look through the woods and yeah, we never nobody
got any freakiness weird feelings. I sure didn't, and you know the first
mettion, A couple of times I did after that. It was really the
big issue. I think I've dealt with the best because they have them while
I was young, I had a lot of years to do on it.
Well, that can work for you or against you. In some instances it
works to your favor, but there are quite a few instances where it doesn't,
unfortunately. And talking about all the game that was depleted, people ask
me all the time if it's a common thing for eyewitnesses to report seeing more
than one dog me in together, and I tell them, no, it's
not a common thing. It's not unprecedented. Credible eyewitnesses do report seeing more
than one dog me in together. But I think that's got to be a
very rare thing. And I'll tell you why. I'll tell you the same
thing I tell them. If you think about the daily caloric requirements of a
dog men, just imagine if you have more than one in an area,
how much quicker all the resources are going to be depleted. I mean,
if two dog men, three dogmen especially or more stayed in one particular area
for any period of time, I don't think there would be anything left to
eat. So that's why I think they almost always make it happen to just
hang out alone, because that's not that big of a threat. By doing
that, compared to sticking around in numbers, you said it yourself that there
weren't any more dear the game just pretty much disappeared. What's clear that,
at least for a certain period of time, you had two dog men in
that area. So that could very easily be why, very easily be why
I would say subconsciously, that's definitely why. You know, thinking about it
and all that kind of stuff. As I got older about a lot of
things led a lot of time to get some different perception and clarity a lot
of this stuff. Oh, it definitely makes sense. I've got another question
for you from Dennis's theory alt and Dennis's question is how has this affected your
life and your outlook on life? No, I don't think, okay,
I guess kind of like when I was younger, I always used to use
the the rage and the seriousness and how the black One acted. I guess
I always kept that image and how it acted in my head. Whenever I
came to like an altercation with with somebody in the human world, when like
they deserved it, like like a fight or something, I would it almost
like ivibing the spirit of that black the black One. And as I got
older and I had children, I guess I invibed the spirit of that one,
because that's why I feel like that the brown one was it's it was
like the half the size of it, you know, the black one had
to be eight and a half nine feet. I don't know. At twelve
years old, it's kind of hard to judge when something's towering over top of
you and you're not really good at measurement math at that point in your life.
But you know, as I got older, I have children on my
own, and I can only imagine what I do if somebody I didn't know
was around my child. And I'm pretty sure i'd act like that protective in
nature and I wouldn't mess around. But other than that, like it hasn't
really affected me, and it has to this extent. There'd be times where
I can let my dogs out in at night time, I can stare off
in the in my yard and all of a sudden, I feel like I
see a black one, but I know for a fact it's not there.
But that's about the only way I can, I guess say it affected me.
But in reality, I don't think it has much. I learned from
it more than anything. Well, I'm sure you did. I'm sure you
learned a lot of things from that experience or those experiences. I've got another
question for you from Blood Vipa, and he wants to know do you think
that it was a family unit or a pack. I would tend to think
it was a family unit. A pack would seem to be I would say
at least four or five, and I only seem two. There could have
been a mom, there could have been I don't know if that was the
mom, I would assume it's a dad's was. I hate to see what
mom would look like, dude, because you're worse from all the other encounters,
they're more vicious. But I don't know, I really don't know.
Yeah, that's normally not the case. Normally the males are going to be
more prone to not necessarily violence, but do violent displays. I guess to
try and get a rise out of you. Yeah, I've got another question
for you from Keith Smith, and Keith wants to know. I know this
is a weird question, but do dogmen have genitalia like a human man or
like a dog? Now, I know you're not a researcher, so you
wouldn't know this, and I'm not a researcher either. I just happen to
know quite a few things about dog men. So I'm going to answer this
question for you, Kate, to let you know that normally their faullous looks
like that of a dog's. I can say this for from my point of
view, and I was pretty much head level, I would assume it had
a big old hang dang. Yeah, I'd say some grape fruits. That's
about it. Did you notice it swingers on the front or on the back?
Can you reiterate that? Sure? If you saw it swingers, did
you see it when it turned around and had its back to you or from
the front, did you say fingers swingers testicles? Oh? Okay, gotcha.
Well I've seen it from the back. As I'm running away, I'm
kind of keeping my head going back toward it and towards the exit of it.
And just like how you see a Rott Waller's, it's pretty much the
same premise there. It is. I knew i'd seen a question by someone
that wasn't in all caps. I just found it. It's from Tommy Cooper,
and Tommy wants to know, do you think they're a harbinger of death?
They're definitely capable of that, without of doubt. In my mind,
they could from what I saw, they could probably just tear a human in
half. And I mean there's as far as a harbinger, I don't think
it's. It definitely bring you death if you call I mean, if it
calls for it, it'll bring you death. And I mean if you confront
it and challenge it, I'm sure you're probably gonna die. There's no ifstands
but about it. You'd have to have one of the largest calibers they make
to probably take this thing down, and I mean probably four or five times,
and that's assuming you can even have the speed to shoot it before it
gets to you that end, put that bullet on target where it needs to
go. So, I mean the way they make you feel, I'd be
impressed if you ain't shaken four or five inches from each side. Oh sure,
yeah, definitely. Yeah, something like that standing in front of you,
that's giving the impression that it wants to wipe you off the map,
then yeah, it's really going to rattle you. Definitely it is. And
because of the trauma from those experiences. We talked about this in our first
conversation, that big black dog man, if it really wanted to kill you,
there wasn't a thing that little brown one could have done to stop it
if it really wanted to do that. Like I said in that first conversation,
that brown one might have slowed it down just a little bit, but
it definitely could not have stopped it. So every indication is that black one
it just wanted to get a rise out of you. That's a repeating m
with these guys. They'll do everything they can to make you think they want
to eviscerate you, but when it comes down to it, you'll leave the
experience without a heart, without a single scratch on your body. So please
don't lose sight of that. Got a question for you from Camille Jonas,
and Camille's question is have you shared your story with your wife and children?
If so, how have they responded? Uh? Oh, can you hear
me? Oh? Was right? Can you hear me? Sorry about that?
No, you're fine? Can you hear me now? Yes, sir?
Okay, great. I've got a question for you from Camille Jonas,
and Camille's question is have you shared your story with your wife and children?
If so, how they responded. As far as my wife, no,
I don't, and she's probably gonna know tonight after this, and she's probably
can think I'm crazy, like I told her, because I told her I
was going to do your show, and I didn't tell her what it was
about, but I said, you just think I'm crazy, And if he
wants to use it for the show or whatever, then you'll find out.
But as far as my kids now, it's kind of fun though to use
a werewolf mask for to have fun with them, because that's I found out
that that really does strike fear into him when you do some pranks to them.
So other than that, No, my kids will probably think I'm crazy.
Not just like I said, kept it to myself understandably so and like
I said, it really is a shame it has to be that way.
But it's totally understandable. And if your wife and kids do think you're crazy,
I mean, that's on them, you know the truth. They don't
and that's why they feel the way they do if they do wind up thinking
that you're crazy. So yeah, that's when it comes down to it.
That's not a you problem, that's a them problem. Please remember that.
I've got a question for you from Scott B. And Scott wants to know
have you ever been to Land between the Lakes lbl Oh No, absolutely not.
No, I don't want to wrong guy now going I've heard too many
stories about that place and then you're guaranteed to probably get hemmed up by one
of them bad boys. Yep. As far as wanting to go like it's
the same premise of going out into the ocean, the deep sea ocean they're
in the shark's kitchen. Yeah, you're definitely in their kitchen at that point
in time. It's so secluded and desolate out there. I'm good. Yeah,
a lot of bad things have happened out there, so I get it.
I understand. I've got another question for you from Cody Lusario. And
Cody's question is any guesses on how tall each dog man was. As far
as brown one, it never really stood up fully, I mean, as
it did try to stand up back then toward me like having its like it
had its arms out like, and I was behind it and Crystal was underneath
my legs at that point in time when the black one come out, and
the black one literally, oh man, I'm telling you it probably eight and
a half nine feet tall. And then I'd say the brown one hunched over
was every bit of four and a half five feet twelve as it was hunched
over. If it stood up, I imagine it was probably maybe six and
a half seven, but I don't know for sure. That's pretty big,
Bud, Yeah, compared to the black one, not that big at all.
I've got another question for you from Blood Vipa, and he wants to
know seeing that at such a young age. How did it affect your going
out in the forest in the area. It didn't affect me so much,
so probably nineteen ninety eight and above the whole pretty much the whole year rest
of ninety six and the whole year of ninety seven, it kind of it
kind of got to me. But like I said, it was during the
fall that I had to last encounter, and we went out there during when
it was snow time, so I would say December, December January area.
That's when I started going back into the woods. I felt like the brown
one didn't lie to me or if that's you know, what happened, because
like I said, it felt like it was talking to me when I was
in my sleep. And I don't know if that's legit or if that's a
clairvoyance or something. I don't know, if that's God, I don't know.
They could be a plethora of things for all I know. But all
I know is they weren't back there anymore after that. Thank goodness for that.
The brown one definitely helped you out. But yeah, I'm just glad
that both of them left because if even the brown one hung around, oh
yeah, really unsure to say, what would have happened down. If the
brown one hung out, I'd just be afraid to get a scratch and it
smelled my blood, and it really won't me. You know, even they
would try to help me, or they'd help me or whatever, I'd still
be worried about being lunch. Oh sure, that'n understand about it. Because
even my wolf that I have now my hybrid, if she sees or smells
raw meat, you know, next to her regular diet of dog food,
if she smells the raw meat, when I pull that out to give to
her, her eyes go different, just like the black ones was. So
I know for a fact that would have been meat lunch meat to the brown
one. If I ever, you know, felt like it wanted to eat
me, that had blood or anything on me, I'm pretty sure it would
act just like a wolf and come after me. I really doubt that,
because if these guys had trouble feeding themselves, that'd be one thing. But
if you think mountain lions are deer killing machines, these guys make mountain lions
look like rank amateurs. So, like I said, they don't have any
trouble feeding themselves. And if you think about it, why is a dog
man want to eat a nasty tasting human when it could go and just dispatch
a deer and enjoy venison. So I can appreciate you feeling that way because
the fear factor. But yeah, I mean the evidence, after speaking with
thousands and thousands of dogmen eyewitnesses, the evidence points in a different direction,
So please keep that in mind. Did you suffer from insomnia because of the
trauma number one and also those conversations those mind speak seemingly mine speak conversations in
your sleep or were you still able to sleep fairly well? Oh, I
have been zombia to this day. I I I probably get about not a
lucky night, four and a half hours of sleep, but it's interrupted sleep.
I catch myself, I wake myself up, like by talking in my
sleep. Just weird stuff I've had. It was not even not even four
or five months ago. I had a dream and felt like I was back
at the back when I was twelve years old again and just different aspects of
that dream of what happened. Just but I know what really happened. You
know, there's just different scenarios of play along in dreams you have no control
over. But yeah, it was like three or four months ago that I
had a dream where I was back there again, but it happened differently.
Wow. I was hoping that all the nightmares would be a thing of the
past now, but unfortunately, Yeah, sounds like that's not the case.
Hopefully before too long they won't keep popping up. But I guess time will
tell them that. I've got a comment from Scott b in reference to that
question he asked about the LBL. He says, I lived three hours from
LBL the land between the lakes. I fished tournaments there quite a lot.
Never seen one. It's something to keep in mind there. Pretty fortunate,
Yeah, definitely. I mean if I was here, I just got straight
on fish instead of looking out in the woods and trying to look for something.
Just do your thing and fish and you'll be lucky. Well, life
does go on. I mean, you're a young guy. You're a really
young guy, Matt, and I hope at some point you know, not
too much weight on a young back, but I hope at some point down
the road you are comfortable enough to head back into the woods again. Baby
steps. Don't just rush out there. But I hope you can't good in
the woods now it's just when he was talking about the Land between Legs and
the LBL, which is absolutely famous for Cryptid's period, let alone the dogmen,
and me being already familiar with the dog Man, I don't want to
even know what else is out there, let alone a whole bunch of dog
men's sightings encountered out there. I am good. I just know when not
to go into another's kitchen. Being able to head back into the woods is
one thing. Being able to head back into the woods and actually enjoy yourself,
that's something totally different when you do head back into the woods. Now,
can you enjoy yourself at all? Or are you just on edge the
whole time? Uh? Yes, and no. You know I was always
you know, when I have a hundred friends, hunter buddies and stuff like
that, you know it's something to enjoy. But it's also something you know.
You're acting when you're hunting, and you're acting as if you're a prouder
to yourself, So you have to be on edge. You have to be
aware of your surroundings in the same sense. So I've always kind of had
that going into the woods, irregardless of whether I was seeing them or not.
I just I guess it's sixth sense to always be when you're always out
in the woods anyway, you have wild animals constantly. You know, I'm
not sitting there thinking about a dog man at any point in time. There's
other animals out there that can hurt you. And so you'd have to be
a fool to go to the woods and not necessarily on edge, but at
least be aware of your surroundings. That is what I typically do. I
wouldn't say I'm on edge anymore when I like I was when I was a
kid. That's good, That's really good. Yeah, sounds like you can
enjoy your time in the woods. Of course, you're not letting your guard
down. You're staying aware of your surroundings, which, just like you said,
that's always a very good idea And as strange as it might sound to
some people, I head into the woods myself. I mean, I go
when I can. Because of my work schedule, it's not very easy.
But when I get when I can, I like to go for nice long
walks through the woods. I've got a woods here, a big woods behind
me that it does have dog men, it does have sasquatch. And I
had out unarmed. As strange as it might sound, some of these people
where I see posting comments that if you go into the woods unarmed, you're
just a lunatic. If you only knew how many times I've headed into the
woods and walked from miles without anyone else with me, without a gun.
And here I am if you talk about a chess piece. If the dog
men, if they wanted me, they'd have me dead to rights. And
I truly because of all the dogmen eyewitnesses I help, I'm like the queen
on the chess board. I guess probably even the king on the chess board.
If they could take me out, then you know, they could affect
all these eyewitnesses and I'd be one less person out there trying to help them
recover. So yeah, I mean, if they were nearly as dan dress
as it's all too easy to make them out to be, even yeah,
I just flat out wouldn't be here. Am I gonna say that they're safe
to be around? No, I'm not going to say that anymore than anything
out there is safe to be around, because, yeah, you have devint
examples of whatever you name it, and you're gonna find devent examples there are
deviant people, serial killers who will kill you as soon as look at you.
So how could you say that? That? Right there is why I'm
not going to say that. I will say this. You being out in
the woods where there's no dog man, you got some big swangers like yourself,
like the black dog Man I've seen. You got some big swangers yourself,
buddy, with uh no side arm. The way I look at it
is, I want to be in that woods with a side arm, and
if they do get me, which it's possible they could, I'm still gonna
try and put a bullet in that thing and leave a mark in it before
I go. I'm not gonna sit there and not let it get some sort
of revenge on it. I guess they better hope they're getting good. I'm
six three and three hundred pounds, so big snack. Understand Matt that in
a lot of cases, these guys will bluff charge you with no intentions on
following through and actually attacking you. So if you're going to fire on one,
I always tell people, please be sure that you're just convinced that you're
going to die anyway, because if this is a bluff charge and you shoot
one that didn't intend to actually take you out, if it was just a
bluff charge. If you shoot it now, things really get sideways, So
please keep that in mind. The way I think about it is if I
just approach it, and from all the encounters that I've listened to over this
past oh I can't even remember how long now, but all the encounters I've
listened to, I think it really debates. It really depends on on your
spirit, who you are, how you react, and you know, I'm
assuming if you do shoot it, it's probably going to get you or do
some malicious things to mess with you. All kinds of things can go wrong
with that, but it's you know, having a sidearm regardless. To me,
it gives me a peace of mind. And that's all I really need
when you're in the woods is have a piece of mind. Knowing that they're
an apex predator and we aren't the apex predator. That kind of sucks,
but in the same sense, I you know, I'm well adjusted to it.
I know if they want to kill me, they'll get me regardless,
and that's anybody for that matter. So you know you're the one to help
me out. Really point that out. Months ago, when I listened to
one of your shows, you sat there and said, no do man wanted
to get you, get you? And I was like, you know,
as simple as that is, it's so true. Is there nothing you can
do to stop that thing? That's right, It's good you understand that.
I had a conversation with a guest named Frank. I forgot his last name,
but I think he was on episode three point thirty two. He's a
really nice guy who really knows a lot about the woods, and he told
me that he initially had plans on heading out and trying to bag a dog
man, and he walked me through all these steps that he had carefully planned
out and thought out to see that through, and then I brought it to
his attention. Okay, I can appreciate you wanting to do that for the
reasons you laid out for me, but understand those those things that you just
laid out for me, that is not going to be enough to protect you
from one of these guys ripping you apart. He didn't realize these guys climbed
trees, and that other abilities and other things that they do and do awfully
well that would make it really foolish to try to actually go out and hunt
one to bag one. So after I laid all this information out for him,
yeah, he didn't have any interest. At least he told me he
didn't have any interest in trying to actually hunt one after that. So they're
an ambush predator, that's what they do. I mean, they have that
similarity to a wolf or a wolf pack, and it's mixed with human maybe
whatever, or it looks like a human. I mean, it's obviously bipedle
and it has the arms of human being, a chest like one, and
hands somewhere. You know, it's got a posable thumb. I'm assuming it
has some sort of humanity in it or you know, I know, it's
an animal, but mixed with that kind of stuff, it's going to be
smarter than the average wolf. So that's something that you don't want to mess
with. And that guy would be in fatal error. I'm assuming if he
tried to do that. Oh, I'm sure he would. Yeah, there's
just no future in trying to hunt dogmen. There really isn't new. And
also something else to consider. Let's say you go out and you do shoot
at one, maybe you win one and you get away. What about the
next group of people or the next person that heads into that area and runs
into that dog men, what's going to happen to that person? So,
yeah, that's also something to consider. Yeah, that would not be good
for them people. No, wouldn't not at all. I've got a comment
from actually, you know what, I'm going to back up so I don't
skip this question from squatching Grandmama, and her question is how close to Youngstown,
Ohio was Matt when he had his encounter? This one is. I
think Youngstown, Ohio is up north from me. I can't remember how far
it is, but this one's in Dark County, Ohio, in southwest Ohio.
It's about forty to forty five minutes from Dayton, Ohio. And I
know there was a lot of Germantown encounters that happened in Ohio from what I've
been told and seeing and did research on. And that was a little close
home to me because I'll have a lot of family in Germantown myself. Yeah,
there are a lot of encounters that happened around there, in and around
Germantown. I've got a question or actually a comment from fiber Geek. He
says, you showing kindness and sharing your bologna probably saved you. And I
can appreciate fiber geek fiber geek feeling that way, but I don't agree.
I don't think that. I think if you wouldn't have thrown the bologna out,
I don't think it really matters. You wouldn't have been harmed either way,
because if one of these guys wanted to harm you, then throwing a
slice or two or ten slices of bologna out there, that's not going to
stop them from taking you out. So I appreciate the idea that fiber put
out there, but I definitely disagree with that. It could have been a
number of factors in all actuality. I mean, you know who you are,
spiritually, kindness, I mean it, Who knows what can really go
on? Just with hundreds and thousands of captures and encounters and stuff. There's
so many different people that have so many different things that are alike yet different,
and they could be bored and I want to mess with you. They
could be a bad a dog man and just say, you know what,
let's do this, Let's get them. All kinds of factors can work in
against you or or with you just depends really on the situation, scenario and
everything. I assume me I got the feel for I guess a good cop,
bad cop, or maybe the parent protecting a child or what. I
don't know. I got the both sides of it. So I don't know
if that helped me out being better, because I can only imagine if it
was all bad, I don't think I could have came back from that.
You know, just seeing that eight and a half nine foot was just oh,
yeah, that'll yeah, we understand, we do understand. If you
look at your living room ceiling, well, for most people that's eight feet,
so out to that, and then I'll kind of give you an idea
of what Matt's talking about when he says, a nine footer that's up there.
That's awfully tall. And if you find yourself face to face with something
like this that looks like the worst monstrosity out of your worst nightmare, that's
that tall. Number one, it's so traumatic just to see something that looks
that way. And then compounding the trauma is how big this guy was.
So yeah, that's just going to send you into overload. I don't care
who you are, Yeah, it's I mean, the Bible even talks about
Neshelm and giants and stuff like that and how the following ones came down and
corrupted every creature. So I don't know, they very well could be an
felon that very well could be a natural God made the creature, or I'm
assuming that's what it is. I mean, even Egypt had a Nubis,
and Anubis look pretty close to some of these dog man encounters that I've heard
over the years. Anubis in almost every portrayal in hieroglyphs on pyramids or in
tombs, Anubis has hominid style legs, not digitigrade style legs. So I'm
not really sure what, if any correlation between dog men and a Nubis there
might be, But that does kind of throw a monkey wrench into just being
able to point at Anubis and saying, okay, well, Anubis must have
been a dog man that people saw for that reason. Sheila Kelly made a
comment. She says, I'm in Vermont if anyone knows of any in Vermont.
Great show. Thanks for joining, Shila, I appreciate it. And
then blood Vipa has a comment. He says, Matt, many thanks for
sharing your experiences with us. And I agree, ain't no problem. It's
kind of nice to get it out every twenty eight years of silence. It's
always a good thing to be able to get something like this out now.
Not to be the dead horse, but like I told you before, if
that black one wanted to harm you, it definitely would have. But I
don't want someone to get it twisted in the thinking that I'm saying, like
I said before, that all dog men are safe to be around because the
black one didn't want to harm you, that no dog men in that situation
would. I'm not saying that because, yeah, I fully believe that there
are dogmen out there that are dangerous to be around. I do believe there
are dogmen out there that will kill you if they get a chance. But
that again goes back to the whole fact that there are devent examples of anything
that you might run into, so you really never know if the dog men
you encounter is a dangerous one, is a belligerent one that is going to
just rip you apart as soon as look at You're not so something to keep
it why I sure as hell didn't go near that window and it was looking
it. Don't blame you if you could freaking reach through the window and get
to me, which he probably very well could have. But I was,
I was against my wall and I was six feet away, So if you
had a six foot arms fan, then he could have snatched me up quick.
I know that fair a fact. That holy crap. I sure thought
that if it wanted to get me, you can get me. It sure
could have. Yeah, definitely. I've got another question for you from Stella
Feral and Stella wants to know, Matt, did your dog act funny after
the encounter? Yeah, yeah, Crystal was. She didn't really leave my
side like Crystal was me and her man. She was she was like a
sister or something. I don't know. She didn't leave my at all the
time, Like she would be by my door or end my bed, or
right and the lane next to me underneath my bed. Yeah, she was
real protective of me. Then there was a few times when we started going
back in the woods that she would be hesitant. And there was a time
when we went back there, and it was right at the beginning she would
start pulling my jeans to like pull me back out. And I will listen
to her every time, because you know, she's got the big beautiful wolf
heres and me, I'm just a dumb kid, and I'd walk back out
if she grabbed my jeans, and I wouldn't mess around. But yeah,
she uh, she act to funny for a minute. It sure sounds to
me like she was a real keeper. You were so fortunate to have her.
Yeah, she was the best dog that we had. And she was
probably about one hundred and sixty pounds, that's how big she was, and
pure white, pure muscle, beautiful, just a beautiful Maine o her.
And unfortunately when she had puppies, she became uncontrollably protective of them. Like
my mom and dad couldn't get near the puppies. We couldn't get near the
puppies. And she broke down our front screen door when it was summertime.
She broke our front screen door down getting through to go after a girl who
was I think she was sixteen or seventeen at the time. She was a
big junior type girls in high school. Her name was Adrian, and she
used to throw sticks at my dog when she was ain't up in the back
and enjoined the son and stuff, and she got her revenge on her.
She thought she was either protecting them or what. But she was just driving
by a bike and she pulled her all the way off the bike by her
leg, drew a massive amount of blood off of her. And yeah,
we had to get rid of Crystal unfortunately. But she went to a big,
big, huge and nice farm where she could run around. Wow.
So hardy to hear that. Yeah she was. We had it for six
years, I want to say six or seven something like that. So farmer
ended up having her for three years I think, and then she passed.
Well, she we all balled like babies. She was a great dog.
Yeah, sounds like it unless you get on her bad side. Yah.
She had that wolf in her so she didn't play around when it comes to
protection. And never seen her lose a dog fight. I know that she
was really awesome at it. She dragged deer from the woods to our back
porch twice. I know. If that was like a gift or something,
I don't have no clue, but that was pretty cool seeing to drag a
whole freaking two hundred pound deer back. It definitely sounds like she was a
real deal. Mm hmmm. Yeah, she definitely weird. She liked like
there was a movie that come out, Blood Moon or Bad Moon. I
think it's called Bad Moon. Oh yeah. And that German Shepherd that was
in there. She was just like that German Shepherd, which used to make
me miss her a lot when I see that movie. That German Shepherd was
awesome in that movie, and she was just like just a little bit more
rougher around the edges, so to speak. That movie came out, all
let's see, now, when did it come out? I think in the
Yeah, I think the early nineties, so it didn't come out with late
nineties. Was it the late nineties, Not sure? I think it was
early nineties. It wasn't that long after he had that first encounter or the
group of encounters. Did you watch that right after it came out or is
that something that you stumbled upon years after the fact. That was something we
stumbled upon years after the facts. When I saw it, though, it
it creeped me out. I know that when he changed himself up to that
tree to try to stop him from eating his own sister, and then all
of a sudden you've seen the full of effect of it. It was almost
like a nasty little flashback. And that was one of the things that kind
of got in my brain like me, and I think could have done the
same thing to me, like it followed her home, like yeah, of
course, or he is trying not to think about that too much. Oh
that was a kid then when I saw that kind of stuff, I'm totally
at peace with what you know goes on or could go on. So that's
good, that's really good. Well, it's about time for us to get
out of here, map, But before we do, do you have any
clothes in comments you'd like to share. I wouldn't let it bother people that
hasn't had the encounter, or even if you had the encounter, I wouldn't
let it bother you too much, like just like Vick says, if it
wanted to get you, to get you, and you know, being in
the woods is something that all creatures on this earth should be able to enjoy.
And I do enjoy going to the woods. Like I said, I'm
just I'm not on edge. I'm just making sure I know my surroundings when
I'm in there, and the woods are for everybody and dog meen, I
have to think know that too, or there'd be a lot more people being
killed by them. And yeah, just I don't think they're If they were
super malicious and super just dangerous, nobody could ever go in the woods.
You wouldn't want to. Our population. Human population would be depleted highly.
That's right. Many there are. Yeah, if that was the case,
I wouldn't have spoken with thousands upon thousands of people who have had direct encounters
with these guys. So yeah, something to keep in mind. But Matt,
I can't thank you enough for coming on and not only sharing the details
of those experiences, but answering all these questions that the listeners had. I
really appreciate it. It's no big deal. Everybody needs to know about it.
Yes, sister twenty eight years do say something? Well, better late
than ever, So we're glad you. Oh I'm going to know about it
now. Well maybe that's a good thing. I just hope that she acts
responsibly and doesn't try to rip you or or give you a hard time about
it a me too, It would be great. Yeah, I guess we'll
see. But please remember if you ever need help down the road, if
you start to regress on your dealings with these experiences, just please send me
a message let me know, and by all means I'll call you back and
I'll find out what's giving you trouble, so you're never going to be alone
with this again. I surely appreciate it, Vick, and thank you for
your time, and thanks for listening and letting me get my story out there.
Oh you're welcome, glad to do it. And for the listeners again,
thank you so much for listening to this show, for supporting the show.
I can't tell you how much I appreciate it. I really do,
but thanks again so much for listening, and have a great night.