WEBVTT 1 00:00:00.040 --> 00:00:02.919 And we're sitting there around the fire, just kind of laughing, having a 2 00:00:02.919 --> 00:00:06.000 good time, and then out of the corner of my eye, I see 3 00:00:06.080 --> 00:00:09.759 something run through our campsite, and I mean run, and I've never seen 4 00:00:09.800 --> 00:00:12.240 anything move like that. And all of a sudden, you can hear it 5 00:00:12.279 --> 00:00:16.079 just take off and run around the perimeter of the tree line like you can 6 00:00:16.079 --> 00:00:19.079 hear it running through the woods. We had taken the logs off the fire, 7 00:00:19.120 --> 00:00:22.199 and something can move the logs back onto the fire. I'm freaked out 8 00:00:22.199 --> 00:00:24.160 at this point. You know, the fire just came back to life. 9 00:00:24.160 --> 00:00:27.160 There's this thing. You could hear it running around the campsite, and all 10 00:00:27.160 --> 00:00:30.399 of a sudden, we can smake out the silhouette and the tree line map 11 00:00:30.480 --> 00:00:34.079 and it's kind of peering around at us. Dustin has his weapon pointed at 12 00:00:34.079 --> 00:00:36.359 it, and I'm like, shoot it. Doesn't shoot it now, identify 13 00:00:36.439 --> 00:00:40.039 yourself now, or we're gonna shoot you. And nothing. It wouldn't respond. 14 00:00:40.359 --> 00:00:43.640 Ray had a glow stick and he took the glow stick and he chucks 15 00:00:43.679 --> 00:00:46.200 it into the woods at this thing. All of a sudden, that glowstick 16 00:00:46.240 --> 00:00:50.359 gets picked up and it chucks that glowstick on the ground that you can hear 17 00:00:50.359 --> 00:01:30.599 it running off. It took off. Mister Shaan Forker, Welcome to Bigfoot 18 00:01:30.640 --> 00:01:34.280 Crossroads. Man, how are you, my friend? It's an honor and 19 00:01:34.319 --> 00:01:38.439 a pleasure, and I'm doing great. I'm just glad you asked me on 20 00:01:38.519 --> 00:01:42.760 it. It's been forever since we talked. Yeah, I know, pretty 21 00:01:42.799 --> 00:01:47.760 crazy. We kind of started around the same time. I think, how 22 00:01:47.760 --> 00:01:52.480 long have you been doing this? Well, we did started doing cheap plug 23 00:01:52.519 --> 00:01:57.200 sasquatch experience since the beginning, well towards the end of two thousand and six, 24 00:01:57.359 --> 00:02:00.879 but we started doing it. It's kind of a Yahoo messaging group. 25 00:02:01.040 --> 00:02:05.480 We would all get together and talk about what was happening on the old big 26 00:02:05.480 --> 00:02:12.400 Foot forums. And you know, let's be honest, the media consumption of 27 00:02:12.639 --> 00:02:19.039 bigfoot stuff was a lot lesser back fifteen twenty years ago. We didn't have 28 00:02:19.479 --> 00:02:23.479 documentaries and YouTube channels and you know, things just popping up like we do 29 00:02:23.599 --> 00:02:29.759 today. It was a much different world in the mid to late two thousands. 30 00:02:30.000 --> 00:02:34.800 Yeah, I was telling somebody that back then it was really confined to 31 00:02:34.919 --> 00:02:39.199 field researchers. You know, the people going out in the field would get 32 00:02:39.240 --> 00:02:43.560 on message boards and talk and compare notes so to speak. I mean not 33 00:02:43.639 --> 00:02:49.280 really, but yeah, argue at least and talk about things. But outside 34 00:02:49.280 --> 00:02:53.560 of that, I mean, you didn't have like this huge field of just 35 00:02:53.840 --> 00:02:59.039 enthusiasts that are involved right alongside the researchers like you do now. Yeah, 36 00:02:59.039 --> 00:03:04.960 and it's it's very different, and your audience varies so much. Where we 37 00:03:05.120 --> 00:03:07.840 go back to years and years Matt, and you know, being researchers, 38 00:03:07.960 --> 00:03:13.479 right, and then in a way kind of changing gear and turning us into 39 00:03:13.599 --> 00:03:16.919 entertainers as well as researchers. Right. So not only are you trying to 40 00:03:16.919 --> 00:03:21.759 fulfill the needs of the actual research and the boots on the ground, but 41 00:03:21.840 --> 00:03:25.120 now you have to generate content for people that listen and not just want to 42 00:03:25.120 --> 00:03:29.360 know what you're doing, but what your opinion on everything, which sometimes is 43 00:03:29.360 --> 00:03:35.520 a lot more dangerous than what it's worth. But it's just amazing how much 44 00:03:35.560 --> 00:03:38.039 the field has changed. Like you said, it's gone from being a world 45 00:03:38.240 --> 00:03:44.120 of researchers, whether at armchair or those in the field. Those were people 46 00:03:44.159 --> 00:03:47.680 that were dedicated and passionate about bigfoot, right. It's a lot different today 47 00:03:47.719 --> 00:03:51.479 where you have that varying level of interest. Back then, I think you 48 00:03:51.479 --> 00:03:54.560 were a die hard or nothing. Now, it's just such a wide gamut. 49 00:03:54.560 --> 00:04:01.199 It's it's really hard to dial it down and be you're almost a generalist 50 00:04:01.240 --> 00:04:05.479 as an ambassador for the community, sharing what we're doing out to the populace 51 00:04:05.520 --> 00:04:09.960 because you don't know who your audience is all the time. Yeah, do 52 00:04:10.000 --> 00:04:15.560 you feel as a podcast host sort of that inner conflict being involved in the 53 00:04:15.600 --> 00:04:20.360 research side as well? I do, because so much of the research is 54 00:04:20.759 --> 00:04:26.199 you have to be careful because you got to watch what you're putting out there. 55 00:04:26.519 --> 00:04:30.439 And what I mean by that is us as researchers and podcasters have made 56 00:04:30.439 --> 00:04:34.639 it so easy to hoax things now because we're giving so much information. We're 57 00:04:34.639 --> 00:04:39.360 almost creating a brand new handbook for the smart to go out there and hoax 58 00:04:39.399 --> 00:04:42.920 us all the time. And now that you know, people want to talk 59 00:04:42.959 --> 00:04:46.199 about the areas of researching and you know, let's you use Salt Fork State 60 00:04:46.240 --> 00:04:49.600 Park for an example, right in Ohio. Would you, Matt, go 61 00:04:49.759 --> 00:04:56.439 and research bigfoot there now, knowing how saturated it is? Not a chance 62 00:04:57.480 --> 00:05:00.000 and would you be able to put your thumb print on any concrete evidence that 63 00:05:00.040 --> 00:05:02.959 came out of there? Because there's no way of saying it's concrete with so 64 00:05:03.000 --> 00:05:09.000 many people being there, Like a lot of the long term investigators that work 65 00:05:09.079 --> 00:05:13.560 that area won't even go back because of the oversaturation. So that's the information 66 00:05:13.600 --> 00:05:17.120 we put out there. We give location, We've created this handbook to hoax 67 00:05:18.360 --> 00:05:21.120 and trying to get information out there, good, solid and frad we created 68 00:05:21.160 --> 00:05:28.120 a whole conundrum for ourselves. Yeah, it's really kind of a double edged 69 00:05:28.120 --> 00:05:32.199 sword, you know, it really is. It's good to see like the 70 00:05:32.240 --> 00:05:36.480 Bigfoot community growing the way that it has over the past decade or so, 71 00:05:38.519 --> 00:05:41.800 but at the same time, it's just you know, open the doors for 72 00:05:41.920 --> 00:05:46.480 anybody and everybody to get through and you know, make a name for themselves, 73 00:05:46.160 --> 00:05:51.000 present themselves anyway they want to and not have to have that you know, 74 00:05:51.800 --> 00:05:57.800 resume or those accolades from their peers or anything to get there. Yeah, 75 00:05:57.839 --> 00:06:00.600 we used to have some pretty hard hitting vetters back in the day. 76 00:06:00.040 --> 00:06:04.399 If you remember Paul Vella yea rest as Soul was not any longer, Paul, 77 00:06:05.199 --> 00:06:09.240 and he just comes to mind, because you know, folks don't remember 78 00:06:09.240 --> 00:06:12.959 the Georgia Bigfoot hoax anymore, but we remember the Georgia Bigfoot hoax because we 79 00:06:12.959 --> 00:06:16.360 were knee deep and talking about it or in some way involved in it. 80 00:06:17.639 --> 00:06:24.519 You know, Paul Vella was really an instrumental part of you know, i'd 81 00:06:24.560 --> 00:06:28.600 like to say keeping it real. When that whole controversy started, there were 82 00:06:28.600 --> 00:06:31.519 allegations that myself and other people were involved. So I sent my phone records 83 00:06:31.560 --> 00:06:35.120 to Paul Vella, you know, to kind of clear my name and you 84 00:06:35.160 --> 00:06:39.959 know, establish my timeline. And that sounds serious. We took things back 85 00:06:39.959 --> 00:06:44.199 then. You know, all we had was our reputation in the field, 86 00:06:44.439 --> 00:06:47.680 and we weren't real, you know, considered ourselves and broadcasters or anything. 87 00:06:47.680 --> 00:06:50.959 We were just people that enjoyed Bigfoot talking about Bigfoot, and we had some 88 00:06:51.000 --> 00:06:56.800 pretty respectable people vetting us at every corner to make sure we were still staying 89 00:06:56.839 --> 00:07:01.000 legitimate. And now, man, that's the informations out there, but nobody 90 00:07:01.040 --> 00:07:05.120 cares about legitimacy. They care about the hot story, or they care about, 91 00:07:06.480 --> 00:07:10.160 you know, what's going to get clicks on YouTube. And that makes 92 00:07:10.199 --> 00:07:15.120 it very difficult for people who still have a passion for this subject and still 93 00:07:15.160 --> 00:07:18.160 really see this as a science and the podcasting as an outlet for that science 94 00:07:18.160 --> 00:07:24.120 as opposed to just entertainment and pop culture and all that jazz. You know, 95 00:07:24.759 --> 00:07:30.160 I have found that it's kind of overturned to what it used to be. 96 00:07:30.839 --> 00:07:34.040 The sides have kind of flipped, you know, talking about integrity of 97 00:07:34.120 --> 00:07:40.480 research and everything. Nowadays, it seems that if you try to hold anybody 98 00:07:41.079 --> 00:07:46.360 to a certain standard or scrutinize their claims, you become the bad guy. 99 00:07:46.639 --> 00:07:51.120 You become the enemy. We're back in our day, it was just the 100 00:07:51.199 --> 00:07:57.199 opposite. It was expected to happen. I was just talking with my co 101 00:07:57.360 --> 00:08:01.439 host Vans and James Baker a couple of weeks ago that, you know, 102 00:08:01.519 --> 00:08:05.160 creating content for the show. Why we don't talk to witnesses so much is 103 00:08:05.240 --> 00:08:09.160 because I don't want to be that guy that, you know, while we're 104 00:08:09.199 --> 00:08:11.240 talking to them, discover something and then all of a sudden you have to 105 00:08:11.279 --> 00:08:15.040 flip gears and be the bad guy, and you now have people listening to 106 00:08:15.079 --> 00:08:20.079 it, right, And like for me, I'd rather not talk to witnesses. 107 00:08:20.639 --> 00:08:22.600 I appreciate those of you that do, because that's a skill set and 108 00:08:22.680 --> 00:08:28.319 it's a balancing act. But you knew me way back in the day. 109 00:08:28.480 --> 00:08:31.639 You know, I was a pretty Robert Rousing kind of guy. If I 110 00:08:31.680 --> 00:08:33.879 got my dander up. I really didn't think as much as I have as 111 00:08:33.879 --> 00:08:37.480 i've become an older statesman, just not you know, you don't want to 112 00:08:37.480 --> 00:08:41.679 do that to somebody. James and I did a presentation in Hawking Hills, 113 00:08:41.679 --> 00:08:46.080 and I'm sorry if I'm jumping around here onead. One of the things we 114 00:08:46.200 --> 00:08:50.879 talked about was, you know, the trauma of a big foot sighting and 115 00:08:52.080 --> 00:08:56.879 how you work with a witness through that to give them kind of I use 116 00:08:56.960 --> 00:09:01.720 the term safe place, but it's culturally people now an outlet to share that 117 00:09:01.919 --> 00:09:07.000 and not really you know, put them in a seat of judgment more as 118 00:09:07.000 --> 00:09:11.039 a place of understanding. Where I feel like I've gone from being an interrogator 119 00:09:11.080 --> 00:09:15.600 to a counselor now Matt when I'm doing these bigfoot sightings. But you know, 120 00:09:15.600 --> 00:09:20.279 there's always that part of me that when you're investing, you're interviewing somebody, 121 00:09:20.320 --> 00:09:24.279 you're investigating the claims. You know, my part of the problems, 122 00:09:24.320 --> 00:09:28.960 my bullshit meter is always on. It's just how I react to that now 123 00:09:28.360 --> 00:09:33.320 that that makes it a lot different. You have to be so caring because 124 00:09:33.320 --> 00:09:37.200 some of these people, you know, the people that really had a sighting. 125 00:09:37.200 --> 00:09:39.720 Man and I think you've talked to enough people to know when somebody's really 126 00:09:39.720 --> 00:09:45.720 had an encounter and when somebody's bullying it, you know, it's traumatic and 127 00:09:45.799 --> 00:09:48.879 we're seeing that. And now that you know, we've gotten better with you 128 00:09:48.919 --> 00:09:52.519 know, psychology and understanding things like PTSD and it's not just something that happens 129 00:09:52.559 --> 00:09:56.200 from people, you know, in a war zone, that it happens from 130 00:09:56.200 --> 00:10:00.440 people dealing with traumatic experiences. You have to be really careful when you're interviewing 131 00:10:00.480 --> 00:10:07.440 people now and you're talking about these things because it's a much different concept. 132 00:10:07.480 --> 00:10:11.919 It's a much different application of science, and you have to be so careful 133 00:10:11.960 --> 00:10:18.159 not to damage them even more so, I'm thankful that I guess when I 134 00:10:18.559 --> 00:10:26.519 get sightings now, I don't really They're much more different to navigate in terms 135 00:10:26.679 --> 00:10:31.480 of, you know, a roadside crossing to somebody that had an absolute encounter, 136 00:10:31.799 --> 00:10:35.320 and then you can talk to those people that absolutely encounter and somehow you 137 00:10:35.399 --> 00:10:39.759 just know when someone's you know, really being honest with you. And if 138 00:10:39.799 --> 00:10:43.080 you you know, do some research into psychology and brush yourself up on it, 139 00:10:43.879 --> 00:10:50.399 the signs are there, from body language to cadence and voiced everything like, 140 00:10:50.440 --> 00:10:56.559 you can become much better at the actual investigating and interviewing people than we 141 00:10:56.679 --> 00:11:01.759 probably were twenty years ago. But to say those people aren't out there that 142 00:11:01.799 --> 00:11:05.720 aren't hoaxing, and they're really good at it and are probably getting through. 143 00:11:05.039 --> 00:11:09.559 There's probably some really good basers out there still making their way through, getting 144 00:11:09.559 --> 00:11:13.039 some really good sightings out, reports made up and put out there. But 145 00:11:13.120 --> 00:11:18.519 there are some people met that are just incredible and that you empathize with because 146 00:11:18.559 --> 00:11:22.720 they experience something that really did shake them to the core. And now I 147 00:11:22.840 --> 00:11:28.200 just have a different way of dealing with all that. The one thing that 148 00:11:28.240 --> 00:11:35.279 I will say about all of this that is possibly a positive. I see 149 00:11:35.279 --> 00:11:37.440 it as a positive. At least you may disagree, and that's fine, 150 00:11:39.320 --> 00:11:46.279 is that by opening the doors like this and having so many people come into 151 00:11:46.320 --> 00:11:52.000 the community at different levels and share their stories. Even though there is of 152 00:11:52.039 --> 00:11:58.519 course plenty of people out there that are just seeking attention or seeking some sort 153 00:11:58.559 --> 00:12:03.120 of you know, social thing, you know, a group of friends or 154 00:12:03.159 --> 00:12:07.960 a group that will accept them or whatever, and they're putting out these you 155 00:12:09.000 --> 00:12:15.600 know, false claims and making up these stories, it's still I think opens 156 00:12:15.639 --> 00:12:20.200 the door for a lot more actual witnesses to come forward and share their experiences 157 00:12:20.240 --> 00:12:26.519 where in the past they wouldn't have at least I don't recall, you know, 158 00:12:26.679 --> 00:12:31.240 so many of you know, the traumatic stories you know that we hear 159 00:12:31.799 --> 00:12:35.720 these days that you know are way more common than they used to be. 160 00:12:37.519 --> 00:12:41.279 I think it's an acceptance thing, you know, as this bigfoot phenomena, 161 00:12:41.360 --> 00:12:46.759 sasquad phenomena has really taken off in pop culture. People are that now people 162 00:12:46.879 --> 00:12:52.120 know that they're individuals out there who take this seriously and want to listen to 163 00:12:52.159 --> 00:12:56.919 them and want to talk where they might not have known that twenty thirty years 164 00:12:56.919 --> 00:13:00.879 ago. They might not have had that knowledge or that safety net of thinking, 165 00:13:00.919 --> 00:13:03.240 oh, I could talk to somebody, or everybody's going to think I'm 166 00:13:03.279 --> 00:13:05.759 crazy. If I talk to somebody about this, who do I talked about? 167 00:13:05.799 --> 00:13:07.919 That's not going to think I'm crazy? Or who am I going to 168 00:13:07.960 --> 00:13:09.200 talk to That's not going to put it out there, and then everybody's going 169 00:13:09.279 --> 00:13:11.399 to know it was me, and then I'm crazy, you know. So 170 00:13:11.519 --> 00:13:18.440 the acceptance level of this phenomena is at a higher rate, and I think 171 00:13:18.679 --> 00:13:22.799 that makes it, like you said, more accessible for people to come out 172 00:13:22.840 --> 00:13:26.320 and share their share their encounters, which it is a very good thing because 173 00:13:26.759 --> 00:13:31.240 as researchers investigators, we need that information. We need that data, but 174 00:13:31.360 --> 00:13:35.639 we have to understand that there's a human behind that and they can't just be 175 00:13:35.720 --> 00:13:39.799 treated like a data point like it has to be treated a lot differently than 176 00:13:39.799 --> 00:13:45.240 we did twenty thirty years ago, and kind of I don't know, Matt, 177 00:13:45.279 --> 00:13:46.519 if you still even frequent any of the forums. I don't go to 178 00:13:46.519 --> 00:13:50.399 the forums anymore because I don't know. I spent too much time on them 179 00:13:50.440 --> 00:13:54.639 in the early days that I just don't want to go into that level of 180 00:13:54.720 --> 00:14:00.519 negativity anymore. And they were a pretty place where they vetted things like crazy. 181 00:14:00.720 --> 00:14:05.120 Every detail was vetted. It's not like that so much today. You 182 00:14:05.159 --> 00:14:07.399 don't have that mass vetting going on because I think people, like you said, 183 00:14:07.399 --> 00:14:13.360 are at different levels and different interests, and people I think at this 184 00:14:13.399 --> 00:14:16.200 point just want to hear stories. They just want to find some way to 185 00:14:16.279 --> 00:14:20.440 keep this, to keep this phenomena going and keep this phenomena around. Yeah, 186 00:14:20.600 --> 00:14:28.000 I don't. I don't partake in any forums. I don't really join 187 00:14:28.080 --> 00:14:33.399 in any discussions any of the you know, social media groups or anything like 188 00:14:33.440 --> 00:14:37.440 that. I have a page that I keep very lighthearted I just put out 189 00:14:37.519 --> 00:14:43.000 memes mostly and whenever I release a new show. I recently opened up a 190 00:14:43.039 --> 00:14:46.879 Facebook group for the podcast and people that listen to it if they want to 191 00:14:46.960 --> 00:14:52.879 join and just you know, ask me questions or whatever and reach me outside 192 00:14:52.919 --> 00:15:00.320 of the podcast itself. But other than that, you know, very seldom 193 00:15:00.399 --> 00:15:03.399 do I ever open my mouth about anything anymore, which, as you know, 194 00:15:05.559 --> 00:15:07.279 is a complete one eighty from who I used to be. For sure, 195 00:15:09.559 --> 00:15:13.559 well right, and I feel you there, mainly because you don't want 196 00:15:13.559 --> 00:15:18.039 to alienate anybody, but you still, you know, have your beliefs, 197 00:15:18.320 --> 00:15:22.399 but sometimes your beliefs are better kept to yourself at this point instead of going 198 00:15:22.440 --> 00:15:24.720 on every you know, first of all, we couldn't be a member of 199 00:15:24.720 --> 00:15:28.879 every big Foot group if we wanted to. They are so numerous now it's 200 00:15:30.039 --> 00:15:35.639 it's unreal. But you're just wasting time at that point because someone's not going 201 00:15:35.679 --> 00:15:37.559 to agree with you. No matter what. You're going to be going back 202 00:15:37.559 --> 00:15:39.080 and forth for hours. Nothing's going to be solved. At the end of 203 00:15:39.080 --> 00:15:43.399 the day. You run the risk of looking like a jerk. And I 204 00:15:43.399 --> 00:15:46.039 don't got time for that. You don't have time for that, So it's 205 00:15:46.080 --> 00:15:50.559 it's almost an exercise and futility, and it's just it's funny to me how 206 00:15:50.080 --> 00:15:54.840 how much we've changed over the years in terms of this research. If you 207 00:15:54.840 --> 00:15:58.679 don't change, you haven't grown. Yeah, you have to adapt and evolve, 208 00:15:58.440 --> 00:16:02.279 you do. And that was where we're kind of at with that. 209 00:16:02.440 --> 00:16:06.720 Like the community today, like you know, we said, is much different 210 00:16:06.759 --> 00:16:11.279 now, good and bad. It's a different place. There's also the obstacle 211 00:16:11.360 --> 00:16:18.679 of every time that you do voice your opinion, especially a critical one, 212 00:16:21.080 --> 00:16:26.879 then you have to substantiate your your own opinion and it can be exhausting. 213 00:16:26.000 --> 00:16:32.559 I don't I just don't have it immy to take everybody to class, you 214 00:16:32.600 --> 00:16:36.399 know, over the past twenty years of events and things to explain how I 215 00:16:36.440 --> 00:16:41.240 reached my opinion about a specific person or topic or group or whatever. And 216 00:16:41.600 --> 00:16:47.960 that's what people want. Yeah, are you seeing things from the past coming 217 00:16:48.000 --> 00:16:52.600 back up and resurfacing over and over again. That is old hat to you, 218 00:16:52.000 --> 00:16:55.879 oh, all the time, But to all these people, it's brand 219 00:16:55.879 --> 00:16:59.080 new all the time. And most of it comes in the form of videos. 220 00:16:59.519 --> 00:17:03.360 You know, they find this stuff we went over it years and years 221 00:17:03.360 --> 00:17:10.839 ago, or how history looks on research and this researchers in this field a 222 00:17:10.839 --> 00:17:14.799 lot differently than when we did when we were actually when some of those people 223 00:17:14.799 --> 00:17:18.039 were still alive, or when some of those people were still active. You 224 00:17:18.079 --> 00:17:22.680 know, people can go and rewrite their own history if they want to too, 225 00:17:22.720 --> 00:17:27.839 because the attention span is very short. You know, people don't want 226 00:17:27.839 --> 00:17:32.720 to have to do their homework. They don't And so I had this guy 227 00:17:33.039 --> 00:17:37.960 messaging me from the radio show page just ask watch experience page on Facebook, 228 00:17:38.000 --> 00:17:41.759 and he's asking me all these questions, and I just got fed up with 229 00:17:41.799 --> 00:17:44.720 it. It's like three o'clock in the morning. I'm like, dude, 230 00:17:44.799 --> 00:17:47.240 do some reading here. Check this book out. This is going to answer 231 00:17:47.279 --> 00:17:51.920 all the questions you're asking me. Do some work, Like the stuff's here, 232 00:17:52.640 --> 00:17:56.519 the information's out there. And I honestly feel that by people that aren't 233 00:17:56.519 --> 00:18:00.160 going out and reading the books that are out there, and they're not going 234 00:18:00.200 --> 00:18:03.079 on the journey for themselves and they just want to be spoon fed, they're 235 00:18:03.119 --> 00:18:06.720 missing out on some critical thinking. But they're missing out on a lot of 236 00:18:06.759 --> 00:18:11.039 the history that makes this field so unique. You know that it's been it's 237 00:18:11.079 --> 00:18:15.319 been happening a lot more than you know, a lot longer than two thousand, 238 00:18:15.359 --> 00:18:18.960 Like it's gone back to the fifties, you know, when the genesis 239 00:18:18.960 --> 00:18:21.440 of all this really started. But people don't want to go back that far. 240 00:18:21.960 --> 00:18:26.440 That's why I appreciate guys like Todd Prescott and the Sasquatch Archives putting videos 241 00:18:26.440 --> 00:18:30.680 out there from like the nineties of the researchers like de Hindent and everybody, 242 00:18:30.000 --> 00:18:34.599 because you can go back and see what those guys were like and get to 243 00:18:34.680 --> 00:18:37.720 understand them and see them, and then you read their materials and it all 244 00:18:37.720 --> 00:18:42.359 comes together. You know, you can finally put that puzzle together for yourself. 245 00:18:44.400 --> 00:18:48.079 And I think there's a sense of accomplishment from that. But people don't 246 00:18:48.119 --> 00:18:52.119 want to do that anymore. They just want current or they want you know, 247 00:18:52.119 --> 00:18:55.599 they want cliff notes. They don't want to go in it and really 248 00:18:55.640 --> 00:18:57.160 dive deep. And they have to. If you really want to embrace this 249 00:18:57.200 --> 00:19:03.119 field and everything it's about, you've got to know the history. So let's 250 00:19:03.119 --> 00:19:07.880 talk about your history. I don't think I've ever even asked you what got 251 00:19:07.920 --> 00:19:11.920 you interested in this subject to begin with. Well, you know, we 252 00:19:12.119 --> 00:19:17.160 go back, you know, as we say history. I was about eight 253 00:19:17.200 --> 00:19:19.960 or nine years old on a family trip to Virginia Beach and I like to 254 00:19:19.960 --> 00:19:26.240 talk that's no mystery, and my dad trying to drive it just needed something 255 00:19:26.279 --> 00:19:27.880 to shut me up. So he got a book and the book was Sasquatched 256 00:19:27.880 --> 00:19:33.920 the Apes among Us. Wow, yeah, he got it for himself. 257 00:19:33.079 --> 00:19:37.839 But I've in my house growing up. You know, the good memories that 258 00:19:37.920 --> 00:19:44.279 I have from my childhood with my dad and family is that we used to 259 00:19:44.319 --> 00:19:49.319 watch things like Arthur C. Clark Mysterious World in Search of Unsolved mysteries. 260 00:19:49.319 --> 00:19:52.079 Those things were always on in my house since I can remember as a kid. 261 00:19:52.119 --> 00:19:56.559 My grandfather had books at his house with strange creatures from the Amazon, 262 00:19:56.319 --> 00:20:00.559 a book by Vincent Price called Monsters that I still I have up in my 263 00:20:00.599 --> 00:20:04.480 attic. And so I always grew up around this stuff and I found it 264 00:20:04.519 --> 00:20:08.119 to be really interesting. But reading that book on that vacation just got me 265 00:20:08.200 --> 00:20:14.799 hooked. And so that started. Then when I got to be in my 266 00:20:14.839 --> 00:20:21.240 teens, we know, the internet became a thing. It wasn't so readily 267 00:20:21.279 --> 00:20:23.119 available in my younger childhood for as it was for most of us, because 268 00:20:23.119 --> 00:20:26.640 it wasn't really a thing besides the concept yet. And then I got a 269 00:20:26.720 --> 00:20:30.720 computer and started getting on the internet talking to people on the Internet, which 270 00:20:30.720 --> 00:20:33.759 I don't advise folks unless you know who they are. He got on chat 271 00:20:33.839 --> 00:20:41.480 rooms like the Virtual Internet Bigfoot Conference and got to know some researchers. I 272 00:20:41.519 --> 00:20:45.400 think I was talking to Cliff Barrickman last year at Ohio and he remembers us 273 00:20:45.400 --> 00:20:51.920 talking in like the nineties, which just blew my mind. And so I'd 274 00:20:51.920 --> 00:20:55.319 have those conversations. And I started field work when I was about, you 275 00:20:55.359 --> 00:20:57.319 know, anecdotically, you know, a tongue in cheek, like fourteen, 276 00:20:57.359 --> 00:21:00.640 but really seriously, and I was about seventeen. I started going out to 277 00:21:00.720 --> 00:21:07.079 citing locations. I started meeting investigators and getting really serious about this. So 278 00:21:07.200 --> 00:21:12.359 probably in a nutshell, I've been doing this now twenty eight years mat or 279 00:21:12.359 --> 00:21:15.519 you know, from reading books to building. And there weren't as many books 280 00:21:15.519 --> 00:21:19.559 back then either. I remember the library, I could get like four or 281 00:21:19.559 --> 00:21:25.839 five books about Bigfoot and that's all they had. And now I have that 282 00:21:25.880 --> 00:21:27.200 many books just sitting right here in a pile of my desk I got to 283 00:21:27.240 --> 00:21:33.160 read. Yet it's it's beautiful to see all this, you know, all 284 00:21:33.160 --> 00:21:38.079 this information about this now, but it didn't exist then. So I feel 285 00:21:38.160 --> 00:21:45.559 very fortunate to be part of a research group or a research field that I 286 00:21:45.680 --> 00:21:48.880 got to grow up with as I grew up, because my perspective on things 287 00:21:48.880 --> 00:21:52.400 have changed, how I deal with people has changed, and I've learned a 288 00:21:52.400 --> 00:21:56.119 lot, you know, from doing this. A lot of the people I 289 00:21:56.200 --> 00:22:03.480 investigate with now are former cops, the retired or and one still an active 290 00:22:03.519 --> 00:22:06.960 cop, my buddy Matt Arner, who's a good friend of mine and a 291 00:22:07.079 --> 00:22:11.680 research partner. So I'm learning a lot from them, you know, so 292 00:22:11.200 --> 00:22:18.599 constantly, still developing myself and learning myself. I've changed as my experiences have 293 00:22:18.759 --> 00:22:22.079 changed. My dealing with people in the field has changed, and witnesses have 294 00:22:22.200 --> 00:22:25.480 changed. So like you know, like I said just a little bit ago, 295 00:22:25.559 --> 00:22:27.920 like the growth that I've seen in myself over this has been amazing, 296 00:22:29.000 --> 00:22:33.799 but the growth in the community has been equally as amazing because it's very different, 297 00:22:33.880 --> 00:22:37.240 and that's that's a good thing. It's also comes comes at a price, 298 00:22:37.319 --> 00:22:40.400 right like anything else. So I've been doing it a long time and 299 00:22:40.559 --> 00:22:42.400 I still I still have a passion for it. The moment, I don't 300 00:22:42.440 --> 00:22:45.920 have a passion for it anymore. I'll I'll go, I'll go do something 301 00:22:45.920 --> 00:22:52.079 else like bowling or something. So what was your first major outing like? 302 00:22:55.279 --> 00:23:00.440 So that was with the Pennsylvania Bigfoot Society, a group Eric Altman, who 303 00:23:00.799 --> 00:23:04.119 man I still consider one of my mentors in this field, had a gathering 304 00:23:04.359 --> 00:23:11.279 in Keystone State Park in southwestern Pennsylvania, which is like the epicenter of big 305 00:23:11.279 --> 00:23:17.079 Foot activity on the East Coast. I mean, it's a hugely saturated bigfoot 306 00:23:17.119 --> 00:23:25.440 residing area. And we went and investigated a the park, different areas of 307 00:23:25.480 --> 00:23:29.359 the park that have had some sightings, and I thought it was just going 308 00:23:29.400 --> 00:23:30.519 to be a you know, a weekend in the woods, but we had 309 00:23:30.519 --> 00:23:36.359 a very interesting encounter that happened that weekend. And this is my first outing. 310 00:23:36.359 --> 00:23:40.759 It's not my first my first sighting investigation or whatnot. It was just 311 00:23:40.799 --> 00:23:45.160 my first outing with a large group of people. And I was hiking with 312 00:23:45.720 --> 00:23:52.079 Cindy Darragison who just passed away, and Tim Cassidy, who's a park ranger 313 00:23:52.359 --> 00:24:00.359 and a biologist, and we were out hiking a part of the park where 314 00:24:00.440 --> 00:24:07.440 all of a sudden, Tim was hit with this overwhelming sense of euphoria and 315 00:24:07.519 --> 00:24:11.279 I was hit by this real intense sense of nausea, and we're sitting there 316 00:24:11.319 --> 00:24:15.759 trying to figure out what the heck's going on, and all of a sudden, 317 00:24:15.359 --> 00:24:19.799 it sounded like a bulldozer just took off through the brush. Well, 318 00:24:19.880 --> 00:24:25.039 fight or flight kicked in and I chased after it, trying to figure out 319 00:24:25.039 --> 00:24:30.519 what it was. And I have on my tail Eric Altman and some of 320 00:24:30.559 --> 00:24:34.400 the guys chasing me because I'm doing something unsafe. I'm running after something I 321 00:24:34.440 --> 00:24:38.839 can't see, and we don't know what it is. And at one point 322 00:24:38.960 --> 00:24:44.480 we thought we had this thing surrounded and it managed to evade us. We 323 00:24:44.519 --> 00:24:48.279 never did see what it was. And as we're walking down the power line 324 00:24:48.319 --> 00:24:51.880 cut out to get back to the area to the cars to go back to 325 00:24:52.000 --> 00:24:59.119 the main site for dinner, somebody on the group says they saw a humanoid 326 00:24:59.160 --> 00:25:03.519 shaped figure the opposite side of the tree line, watching us as we relieving. 327 00:25:03.680 --> 00:25:07.200 I never saw it, but somebody in the group said we did, 328 00:25:07.240 --> 00:25:11.279 so I thought that was a very interesting, uh you know, first kind 329 00:25:11.319 --> 00:25:15.079 of major group X, you know outing that's really an expedition. We weren't 330 00:25:15.079 --> 00:25:18.559 going to the Himalayas or anything, but a large group outing in a very 331 00:25:18.599 --> 00:25:22.279 active area of PA and that one kind of sticks with me to this day. 332 00:25:22.279 --> 00:25:26.160 Matt, I don't know what it was. All I know is that 333 00:25:26.160 --> 00:25:33.319 that feeling I made me so nauseous, and it was it was compelling. 334 00:25:33.480 --> 00:25:37.920 And to have two people have two different reactions but still kind of a you 335 00:25:37.960 --> 00:25:41.200 know, a reaction to something we couldn't you couldn't see, we could only 336 00:25:41.240 --> 00:25:48.400 feel, was just very very intense. Okay, that derails me, Uh, 337 00:25:48.799 --> 00:25:52.480 thanks a lot, So I have, you know, just going off 338 00:25:52.559 --> 00:25:57.200 that infrasound, man, is that what you think it was? Were your 339 00:25:57.200 --> 00:26:02.839 thoughts on that theory that these things can produce infrasound to this day, I 340 00:26:02.960 --> 00:26:06.880 do. And one of the things I'm trying to find reliably is some sort 341 00:26:06.880 --> 00:26:11.319 of infrasound detector that we can take woods with us. But you know, 342 00:26:11.359 --> 00:26:14.000 you see things on the internet that are just you know, junk, someone 343 00:26:14.039 --> 00:26:18.160 selling to take your money. But there has to be some sort of detector 344 00:26:18.200 --> 00:26:22.319 out there that they can use, because listen, we know there are animals 345 00:26:22.359 --> 00:26:27.240 that use infrasound. Tires use infrasound, elephants use infrasound, Like, it's 346 00:26:27.319 --> 00:26:33.759 not unknown for mammals to use this. We just don't know of any primates 347 00:26:33.920 --> 00:26:38.279 that use this, and all it is is frequency. It's the ability to 348 00:26:38.359 --> 00:26:44.440 emit frequency and incredibly low tone. So who's to say that this creature doesn't 349 00:26:44.440 --> 00:26:47.599 have that capability. We just don't have any way of really documenting it, 350 00:26:47.720 --> 00:26:49.920 and we need to. So if we can document that, do you not 351 00:26:51.079 --> 00:26:52.160 think that's still a good piece of the puzzle, Like, all of a 352 00:26:52.200 --> 00:26:56.519 sudden, Hey, you know, we might not have physical proof, but 353 00:26:56.640 --> 00:27:00.119 something's paining us out there, and this is how we've got recording of it. 354 00:27:00.279 --> 00:27:06.440 We have physical evidence in the form of you know, data that showing 355 00:27:06.519 --> 00:27:07.640 that, all of a sudden, I was hit by this at this time. 356 00:27:07.680 --> 00:27:11.799 This is how I felt. Right, that's compelling, Right, That's 357 00:27:11.839 --> 00:27:15.079 not as easy to dismiss as someone saying I saw something run across the road 358 00:27:15.079 --> 00:27:21.960 at incredible speeds. You know, that's real scientific data right there. Do 359 00:27:22.039 --> 00:27:27.000 you have any certain encounters or encounter stories that have kind of been influential on 360 00:27:27.079 --> 00:27:32.839 you over the years that really stand out? You know, there's been so 361 00:27:32.880 --> 00:27:37.920 many over over the years. You go to the classics right that you know, 362 00:27:37.920 --> 00:27:40.759 we all you know grew up with, you know, Bobby Short's website 363 00:27:40.799 --> 00:27:45.920 big Foot Encounters was loaded with them. Locally, I had a gentleman who 364 00:27:47.039 --> 00:27:51.440 was a marine, a retired marine. He was out fishing and hiking. 365 00:27:52.480 --> 00:27:55.799 And when he was hiking, he was sitting on this big rock and was 366 00:27:55.799 --> 00:28:00.519 getting towards getting towards dusk. And that he's sitting there on the rock, 367 00:28:00.000 --> 00:28:04.279 mine in his own business. He hears this trumping through the brush and just 368 00:28:04.440 --> 00:28:08.559 below him on the rock, it just barely missed his dangling legs. He 369 00:28:08.680 --> 00:28:15.039 says, a sasquatch walked right past him, across the path and into the 370 00:28:15.039 --> 00:28:18.480 brush. This guy had no reason to lie to me about anything. He 371 00:28:18.519 --> 00:28:22.680 was impressed by, you know what he had just witnessed. And it wasn't 372 00:28:22.680 --> 00:28:29.519 an incredibly long encounter. But in two thousand and seven, not long not 373 00:28:29.680 --> 00:28:33.839 far from that area, there was a gentleman who contacted me and this sighting. 374 00:28:33.839 --> 00:28:37.720 He also contacted the BFRO, so this is on the BFRO website. 375 00:28:37.039 --> 00:28:44.559 While he was out dumping stone at an old conservation civilian conservation camp he had 376 00:28:44.920 --> 00:28:47.319 was getting ready to drop the stone. As he looked in the mirror, 377 00:28:47.319 --> 00:28:51.039 he saw sasquatch in the rearview mirror. As he turned around, he looked 378 00:28:51.039 --> 00:28:56.279 at his one in front of him, and he didn't even drop the bed. 379 00:28:56.359 --> 00:28:59.079 He just took off like a bat at a hell out of that campground, 380 00:28:59.119 --> 00:29:02.000 dumping that stone as he went, and he never lowered it, and 381 00:29:02.000 --> 00:29:07.400 he never went back. I called him, you know. Eventually we did 382 00:29:07.440 --> 00:29:11.839 go back there, but it took some prying and it was just an incredible 383 00:29:11.880 --> 00:29:15.079 you know, just how it was impacted this guy. He never wanted to 384 00:29:15.160 --> 00:29:19.880 go back there. Right, It's just so, you know, a freakish 385 00:29:19.880 --> 00:29:23.240 story. As he's sitting there doing his day job in the middle of the 386 00:29:23.319 --> 00:29:26.200 day, mind you, this isn't even at nighttime, in the middle of 387 00:29:26.240 --> 00:29:30.319 the day, and he has this encounter and then one more that I have 388 00:29:30.480 --> 00:29:36.160 that really got me a gentleman. To this day, he's asked me to 389 00:29:36.240 --> 00:29:41.680 keep him, you know, anonymous to the public. He had about a 390 00:29:41.680 --> 00:29:47.720 five six thousand acre private hunting lease up in north northern PA, right next 391 00:29:47.759 --> 00:29:52.000 to the New York border, and he had gone out there for twenty years. 392 00:29:52.000 --> 00:29:56.319 One morning, when he was out in his tree stand, he's just 393 00:29:56.359 --> 00:30:03.559 scoping it out, and out of the woods come a large creature. Goes 394 00:30:03.599 --> 00:30:08.759 into the woods, comes out of the woods into the clearing, sees him 395 00:30:08.759 --> 00:30:11.519 in the tree stand and they have kind of a little a little bit of 396 00:30:11.519 --> 00:30:17.960 a standoff, and you know, that's going on for just a little bit. 397 00:30:18.000 --> 00:30:22.680 The creature goes walks back into the woods. He gets down, takes 398 00:30:22.680 --> 00:30:25.519 off like a bat out of hell, out of there. Comes back the 399 00:30:25.559 --> 00:30:30.440 next day and something had taken the the the about an inch and a half 400 00:30:30.440 --> 00:30:34.680 two inch aluminum pipe and wrapped it around the tree. Wow, and he 401 00:30:34.759 --> 00:30:38.119 would not go back there after that. We went back probably a couple of 402 00:30:38.160 --> 00:30:42.160 years later with him. He actually we got him to bring us out to 403 00:30:42.240 --> 00:30:47.880 that area. We had a hell of a time Matt trying to get him 404 00:30:47.880 --> 00:30:49.759 into the truck to take us to the area where he had this encounter. 405 00:30:49.880 --> 00:30:55.480 He did not want to go back to this spot, like or he didn't 406 00:30:55.480 --> 00:30:59.119 want to be out there anywhere were there, you know, he didn't feel 407 00:30:59.200 --> 00:31:00.759 you know, safe, There wasn't going to be a copious amount of light. 408 00:31:02.240 --> 00:31:04.200 And we did manage to convince him to take him down there. It's 409 00:31:04.240 --> 00:31:07.039 like, look, you know, you're with us, there's a bunch of 410 00:31:07.119 --> 00:31:10.200 us here. You're okay, We're not going anything happen to you. And 411 00:31:10.240 --> 00:31:15.160 he ended up researching with us through the entire night and had a little bit 412 00:31:15.200 --> 00:31:19.240 of a different appreciation for you know, the kind of the science and the 413 00:31:19.599 --> 00:31:23.880 research behind it. But he was just, man, I tell you, 414 00:31:25.079 --> 00:31:30.640 just scared. And that's what starts getting my gear going about treating witnesses and 415 00:31:30.720 --> 00:31:33.920 how to some people, yeah, Bigfoot's you know, a great folk story, 416 00:31:33.960 --> 00:31:37.079 a great fantasy, right, can't be real. But to the people 417 00:31:37.119 --> 00:31:42.839 that have experienced it, man, it's it's something special, and it's it's 418 00:31:42.920 --> 00:31:47.559 life changing. And to this gentleman, you know, he works in the 419 00:31:47.559 --> 00:31:52.160 woods. He's an official with the Game Commission. That's what he does for 420 00:31:52.200 --> 00:31:55.920 a living. And to not want to go out into the woods anymore, 421 00:31:56.640 --> 00:32:02.640 you know, that's affecting your livelihood. I think the human element is one 422 00:32:02.680 --> 00:32:08.720 of the biggest parts of the whole Bigfoot phenomenon. And I know that a 423 00:32:08.759 --> 00:32:15.839 lot of people really like to hear, you know, the scary horror stories 424 00:32:15.880 --> 00:32:22.160 and you know the stories that people tell of you know, special military units 425 00:32:22.200 --> 00:32:30.000 going out and hunting these things. For me, whenever I talk to someone 426 00:32:30.440 --> 00:32:37.559 and I hear the emotion in their voice and I hear them reliving the moment, 427 00:32:38.160 --> 00:32:44.200 those are the stories that stand out to me because of that human element 428 00:32:44.240 --> 00:32:47.480 and like you're saying the way that it affects people, and maybe that's kind 429 00:32:47.480 --> 00:32:51.920 of sick of me. I don't know. It's not that I'm happy that 430 00:32:51.920 --> 00:32:57.119 they're going through the trauma or anything, but those stories always hit harder to 431 00:32:57.240 --> 00:33:00.640 me. They always seem more real to me than these, you know, 432 00:33:01.359 --> 00:33:07.079 big dramatic stories that you hear a lot of times on podcasts, including my 433 00:33:07.119 --> 00:33:13.720 own I'm Guilty as Charged. But it sounds like you're kind of the same 434 00:33:13.799 --> 00:33:16.920 way. Yeah, I like the people element of it, right, and 435 00:33:17.920 --> 00:33:22.440 Matt it kind of you know. I guess for the longest time I was 436 00:33:22.480 --> 00:33:25.440 a fence center on whether this thing really existed or not, saying the infrasound. 437 00:33:25.920 --> 00:33:29.680 You know, I had rocks thrown at me with Billy Willard once, 438 00:33:30.079 --> 00:33:32.440 and you know, so, yeah, you had things like that that happened 439 00:33:32.440 --> 00:33:37.960 that really don't really seem significant, right that they're anecdotal in all this, 440 00:33:38.559 --> 00:33:42.920 I don't know at the point I ever wanted to have an encounter until I 441 00:33:42.960 --> 00:33:47.200 had one of my own in twenty fourteen, I'm sorry twenty twelve, and 442 00:33:47.279 --> 00:33:54.000 it changed my life. I almost left everything behind and quit this field and 443 00:33:54.119 --> 00:34:00.400 just was done with it because it really shook me to the core. I 444 00:34:01.359 --> 00:34:06.559 to this day at times, I still have times dealing with it because of 445 00:34:07.960 --> 00:34:13.960 being in the field and trying to be unbiased and trying to you know, 446 00:34:14.079 --> 00:34:17.079 not let any of my own experiences contaminate when I'm working with somebody else, 447 00:34:17.079 --> 00:34:23.199 to let my own bias take over. When we had our encounter, and 448 00:34:23.199 --> 00:34:25.920 I'll tell you about it if you'd like me to, Yeah, for sure. 449 00:34:27.480 --> 00:34:31.639 It was one of my best friends, Dustin Kinley, a guy is 450 00:34:31.679 --> 00:34:37.519 like my brother Ray Hendershot. We had met up with Dave Rupert, Eric 451 00:34:37.519 --> 00:34:42.400 Altman, and Ryan Cavalen to go do some preliminary work for an outing. 452 00:34:42.440 --> 00:34:45.519 We were going to have that weekend up in Clearfield County, Pennsylvania, which 453 00:34:45.559 --> 00:34:50.880 is another area of PA in the north northwestern part of the state, no 454 00:34:51.039 --> 00:34:54.480 central, the northwestern part of the state, near the Allegheny National Forest, 455 00:34:57.280 --> 00:35:00.360 And we had, you know, set up our camp site and we're just 456 00:35:00.440 --> 00:35:04.400 kind of getting stuff ready for the weekend, and we were going to call 457 00:35:04.440 --> 00:35:06.480 it an early night because we were going to get up really early in the 458 00:35:06.480 --> 00:35:09.159 morning, like two three o'clock in the morning to go do some like late 459 00:35:09.320 --> 00:35:14.119 night you know, early morning, squatching right to be out there at you 460 00:35:14.119 --> 00:35:17.880 know, at that dust to dawn kind of scenario. So Eric and Dave 461 00:35:17.960 --> 00:35:22.159 and Ryan left and we were going to stay out there to get ready, 462 00:35:22.239 --> 00:35:28.840 myself, Dustin and Ray and we build a fire and we're sitting there around 463 00:35:28.880 --> 00:35:32.480 the fire just kind of laughing, having a good time, and then out 464 00:35:32.480 --> 00:35:37.400 of the corner of my eye, I see something run through our campsite, 465 00:35:38.800 --> 00:35:45.000 and I mean run. It was large. It wasn't bulky ball kids, 466 00:35:45.039 --> 00:35:49.280 actually built like a big NBA player, And to this day, I still 467 00:35:49.320 --> 00:35:52.360 describe it as sloth like like it. It just moved, it glided, 468 00:35:52.880 --> 00:35:58.960 It moved so fast mad I've never seen anything move like that. And Ray's 469 00:35:59.039 --> 00:36:00.800 back was to it. Ray wasn't seeing what was going on, but Dustin 470 00:36:00.880 --> 00:36:04.519 it also saw it. So Dustin and I jumped up and we ran to 471 00:36:04.559 --> 00:36:07.639 the edge of the woods. It's starting to get dark, so you couldn't 472 00:36:07.639 --> 00:36:09.320 see very far, but you can still hear this thing taking off through it. 473 00:36:12.880 --> 00:36:15.800 Not really know what in hell we just experienced. We're sitting there kind 474 00:36:15.800 --> 00:36:17.719 of gobsmacked, like, man, what the what, What's just going on 475 00:36:17.880 --> 00:36:23.079 here? So we're like, well, if something like this is going to 476 00:36:23.159 --> 00:36:27.800 hang around or is out here. It's probably, you know, gonna be 477 00:36:27.800 --> 00:36:30.280 out here. Let's go to bed, Let's try to relax, and let's 478 00:36:30.280 --> 00:36:31.320 see if we can get up really early and see if we can get any 479 00:36:31.320 --> 00:36:37.639 more of this right. Put the fire out, go in the tent, 480 00:36:37.000 --> 00:36:42.039 lay down on the tent. We're in there about forty five minutes to an 481 00:36:42.039 --> 00:36:45.840 hour, and all of a sudden we hear something walking through our campsite. 482 00:36:45.719 --> 00:36:50.480 Now, Matt, we're miles from the road. We're in an area that's 483 00:36:50.519 --> 00:36:53.239 pretty remote. Not a lot of people knew we were out there, So 484 00:36:54.800 --> 00:36:58.519 to this day, I rule out anybody hoaxing us. It made no sense 485 00:36:58.519 --> 00:37:00.199 for anybody to hoax us because a lot of people know we were there, 486 00:37:00.480 --> 00:37:08.400 right, and they're not really anybody close by to do that. And definitely 487 00:37:08.400 --> 00:37:13.239 by petal, because you can hear it moving around like you know, it's 488 00:37:13.280 --> 00:37:17.920 locomotions different than a deer. And I see the little light come on a 489 00:37:19.000 --> 00:37:24.199 dustin's sleeping bag and there's no phone service in the tent. You have to 490 00:37:24.280 --> 00:37:28.440 run to the middle of this little meadow we're camping in the kit phone service 491 00:37:29.800 --> 00:37:32.480 and a bar or two it that and I see the light. Come on, 492 00:37:32.480 --> 00:37:35.039 I see Dustin. You hear that? He goes, yeah, I 493 00:37:35.119 --> 00:37:38.480 hear it. I'm like, well, what do you want to do is 494 00:37:38.480 --> 00:37:43.800 so let's just sit here and listen. Hear it going on. So Dustin 495 00:37:43.840 --> 00:37:47.199 gets up, he unzips the tent, he gets out. I'm getting ready 496 00:37:47.199 --> 00:37:50.119 to put my boots on, and he goes, hey, fork or throw 497 00:37:50.199 --> 00:37:52.599 me my gun. Well, like an idiot, I throw him his gun 498 00:37:52.719 --> 00:37:57.440 and not thinking that, hey, just throw a firearm. But I'm getting 499 00:37:57.480 --> 00:38:00.119 ready to get out. He goes, shit, take a look, and 500 00:38:00.119 --> 00:38:04.840 as I turned my head that the same thing that ran through our campsite earlier 501 00:38:05.880 --> 00:38:09.320 is going up this little hillside and all of a sudden you can hear it 502 00:38:09.400 --> 00:38:15.480 just take off and run around the perimeter of the of the tree line like 503 00:38:15.519 --> 00:38:21.480 you can hear it running through the woods. I'm like, what the heck 504 00:38:21.639 --> 00:38:23.360 is going on here? So at this point I'm kind of frightened because hey, 505 00:38:23.400 --> 00:38:28.159 this is the same thing we saw earlier. It's come back. Well, 506 00:38:28.199 --> 00:38:30.400 what I didn't tell you is I gotta go back and say I left 507 00:38:30.400 --> 00:38:32.039 this part out, and I don't know how I left this part out. 508 00:38:34.079 --> 00:38:37.039 What got us out of the tent is because we started seeing the fire can 509 00:38:37.360 --> 00:38:42.280 rink kindling. We had taken the logs off the fire, and something can 510 00:38:42.320 --> 00:38:45.159 move the logs back onto the fire. Wow, all right, that's what 511 00:38:45.199 --> 00:38:52.079 got us out. Okay, I don't know, and I'm sorry, and 512 00:38:52.119 --> 00:38:55.280 so I'm freaked out at this point. You know, the fire just came 513 00:38:55.320 --> 00:38:59.079 back to life. They just think you could hear it running around the campsite. 514 00:38:59.119 --> 00:39:02.320 So I run to the middle of the little meadow and I pick up 515 00:39:02.320 --> 00:39:07.239 the phone and I called Dave Rupert's wife and I said, hey, Carrie, 516 00:39:07.280 --> 00:39:09.639 did Dave make it home yet? She goes, no, he's still 517 00:39:09.679 --> 00:39:13.599 you know, he's still out. I'm like, can you call him and 518 00:39:13.639 --> 00:39:15.079 get him back here to me? We got some shit going on. I 519 00:39:15.199 --> 00:39:19.199 want to get out of here. And she goes, okay, let's you 520 00:39:19.280 --> 00:39:22.800 know. So she, you know, hangs up with me, calls me 521 00:39:22.800 --> 00:39:25.880 back. A few minutes later, she goes, listen, Dave and Ryan 522 00:39:25.960 --> 00:39:29.960 had stopped off at a place down the road. They're still there. They're 523 00:39:29.960 --> 00:39:35.000 going to come back to you. About a half hour later, here comes 524 00:39:35.079 --> 00:39:37.639 Dave and Ryan and I can see the flashlights. We run up the little 525 00:39:37.719 --> 00:39:40.679 hillside to go talk to him. And Ryan still may have this on film 526 00:39:40.719 --> 00:39:45.320 because he was making a movie back then, and he was, you know, 527 00:39:45.440 --> 00:39:49.320 always filming. He was filming everything back in the day. And they 528 00:39:49.360 --> 00:39:52.719 stumbled upon us, and you know, we start talking about, you know, 529 00:39:52.800 --> 00:39:57.320 what's going on. So, you know, we we're revisiting everything that's 530 00:39:57.360 --> 00:40:00.239 going on. And Dave goes, well, let's see if we you can 531 00:40:00.239 --> 00:40:02.280 get this, you know, keep things going here. We're out here with 532 00:40:02.320 --> 00:40:06.000 you now, you're not by yourselves. So as you guys go back in 533 00:40:06.039 --> 00:40:07.480 the tent, here's the radios. We'll talk back and forth. And they 534 00:40:07.519 --> 00:40:14.480 kind of bib whacked down and like this little hunkered covered in a you know, 535 00:40:14.719 --> 00:40:19.360 a bush type type area. We're in the tent. We're out there 536 00:40:19.400 --> 00:40:22.599 for a while and nothing happens. Right, of course, nothing's going to 537 00:40:22.639 --> 00:40:27.440 happen now, so they talked to some nothing's happened. We're gonna come back 538 00:40:27.440 --> 00:40:29.519 out in the morning. We're gonna go home for a while and get some 539 00:40:29.559 --> 00:40:32.440 sleep, and you know, we'll be back with you guys in the morning. 540 00:40:32.440 --> 00:40:35.960 All right. They build our confidence up, like this is why you're 541 00:40:35.960 --> 00:40:37.000 out here. Come on, guys, you can do this, And sure, 542 00:40:37.000 --> 00:40:44.960 what the hell, why not so they left and a while later, 543 00:40:45.360 --> 00:40:51.199 here comes the footsteps again. This time we're ready, we jump out, 544 00:40:52.159 --> 00:40:54.400 you know, we all we can hear at this point is something still moving 545 00:40:54.400 --> 00:40:58.880 along the tree line. And all of a sudden we can smake out the 546 00:40:58.960 --> 00:41:01.920 silhouette and the tree line, Matt, and it's kind of peering around at 547 00:41:02.000 --> 00:41:07.039 us. And I told Dustin, I Dustin has its weapon, his weapon 548 00:41:07.079 --> 00:41:09.000 pointed at it. And I'm like, shoot at Dustin, shoot it now. 549 00:41:09.119 --> 00:41:12.000 And he's like, Sean, I can't. I said, listen, 550 00:41:12.000 --> 00:41:15.199 if you're somebody out here you're messing with it, we're gonna shoot you. 551 00:41:15.239 --> 00:41:20.119 Identify yourself now or you know, we're gonna shoot you. And nothing, 552 00:41:20.320 --> 00:41:25.239 it wouldn't respond. And so Ray had a glow stick and he took the 553 00:41:25.239 --> 00:41:30.400 glow stick and he chucks it into the woods at this thing right, well 554 00:41:30.440 --> 00:41:35.880 for a moment, nothing happens. All of a sudden, that glowstick gets 555 00:41:35.880 --> 00:41:40.199 picked up, all right at a decent hype. Nope, and I think, 556 00:41:40.400 --> 00:41:45.039 like day out of here now, and it chucks that glowstick on the 557 00:41:45.079 --> 00:41:49.760 ground and you can hear running off. And we decided that at the same 558 00:41:49.800 --> 00:41:52.840 point we're gonna we're gonna charge at this thing at the tree line. Okay, 559 00:41:52.840 --> 00:41:54.400 we're tired of this thing messing with us, and so the three of 560 00:41:54.480 --> 00:42:01.639 us just in unison kind of charge at it and it took off. So 561 00:42:02.360 --> 00:42:06.760 we're sitting there like, okay, as soon as daylight breaks were out of 562 00:42:06.760 --> 00:42:09.119 here, We're not pissing around in this place anymore. I'm done. It's 563 00:42:09.159 --> 00:42:13.639 come back twice on us, now technically three times if you count the time 564 00:42:13.639 --> 00:42:16.480 with the fire. I'm done with this. So we go back in the 565 00:42:16.480 --> 00:42:21.360 tent. It starts raining. We think we're safe. You know, nothing's 566 00:42:21.360 --> 00:42:25.800 going on. Notate this really odd, strange flash of light. Man, 567 00:42:27.559 --> 00:42:30.679 it's not lightning, there's nothing. It was just as I thought, maybe 568 00:42:30.679 --> 00:42:32.639 one of the game cameras that had been set up and had taken a picture 569 00:42:32.639 --> 00:42:39.119 of something right morning hits. We pack everything up in a toe and our 570 00:42:39.119 --> 00:42:42.559 fat asses are out of there. We ran that mile and a half, 571 00:42:42.559 --> 00:42:45.000 two miles, I swear sixty eight minutes we were out there. We didn't 572 00:42:45.880 --> 00:42:50.159 everything out. We got into a car into my van. I called my 573 00:42:50.199 --> 00:42:52.239 wife and the way home and I said, listen, we're done. I'm 574 00:42:52.239 --> 00:42:54.440 coming home. I'm freaked out. I don't want to do this anymore. 575 00:42:54.719 --> 00:43:00.000 Like and now I guess think about it today, the impact still there. 576 00:43:00.039 --> 00:43:04.920 I still get the goose bump from the story. I've told it enough times 577 00:43:04.920 --> 00:43:07.360 now where I feel like the impact has lessened on me. But when I 578 00:43:07.400 --> 00:43:09.239 go back and still think about what happened to us to that night and how 579 00:43:09.960 --> 00:43:15.519 scary it was when we were experiencing it, it kind of brings that back 580 00:43:15.599 --> 00:43:19.159 up to us and Matt, I've never experienced anything like that before. I've 581 00:43:19.239 --> 00:43:22.280 not experienced anything like that since that one night. But we knew the going 582 00:43:22.280 --> 00:43:25.559 into it. This was a hot bet of activity, had been a hot 583 00:43:25.559 --> 00:43:31.239 bagot of activity. Why we reacted that way, I don't know. For 584 00:43:31.320 --> 00:43:36.559 people that have had the experience we had, it still scared us right like 585 00:43:36.679 --> 00:43:38.400 it. It frightened the hell out of me. I wanted to quit. 586 00:43:39.239 --> 00:43:43.480 I called Dave Rupert, It called Eric Altman. I told Eric Man, 587 00:43:43.480 --> 00:43:45.360 I love you, but I'm done. I don't want to do this anymore. 588 00:43:45.440 --> 00:43:46.480 I called David, said, hey, when you go back after this 589 00:43:46.519 --> 00:43:52.199 week, look at those game cameras because the flash went off and there might 590 00:43:52.199 --> 00:43:53.079 be a picture on there. And he goes, Sean, none of those 591 00:43:53.079 --> 00:43:57.360 cameras have flashes on the I'm like, well, what the hell? And 592 00:43:57.400 --> 00:44:00.360 then that really cemented me not wanting to go back at It took me years 593 00:44:00.400 --> 00:44:02.719 to go back out to that location. And when I went back out to 594 00:44:02.760 --> 00:44:06.639 that location, we had like fourteen people with us, so I felt really 595 00:44:06.679 --> 00:44:09.960 safe. But when we were out there again that night, we experienced a 596 00:44:10.039 --> 00:44:15.039 strange flash alight for no reason. We experienced that same flash of light and 597 00:44:15.480 --> 00:44:19.159 none of us can figure out what it is or what it was, or 598 00:44:19.159 --> 00:44:24.800 why it happened. And so that experience, I think that's what triggered in 599 00:44:24.920 --> 00:44:30.119 me that we really have to start looking at the at the impact that this 600 00:44:30.239 --> 00:44:35.559 has on witnesses and how I treat witnesses because I know what I experienced and 601 00:44:35.559 --> 00:44:38.599 I know how I'd want to be treated if someone was asking me about this 602 00:44:38.679 --> 00:44:44.920 encounter. That literally changed my whole perspective on this, and it was enough 603 00:44:44.920 --> 00:44:46.920 to get me to quit, Like I really wanted to give up. And 604 00:44:47.000 --> 00:44:50.639 so after about a few months of talking to people, and you know, 605 00:44:50.679 --> 00:44:52.960 talking to my wife and she's like, you really enjoy doing this? Do 606 00:44:52.960 --> 00:44:58.440 you really want to give this up? Because it's important to you, I 607 00:44:58.519 --> 00:45:00.880 was like, not really, but it's going to take a long time before 608 00:45:00.920 --> 00:45:02.880 I get my confidence back. And I don't really think I got my confidence 609 00:45:02.920 --> 00:45:07.880 Batmack to like twenty sixteen where I was really comfortable again, you know, 610 00:45:07.960 --> 00:45:13.000 four years later going back out into the woods and doing like I used to. 611 00:45:13.280 --> 00:45:15.400 I didn't camp like almost that entire time. It took me a long 612 00:45:15.440 --> 00:45:20.159 time to get back into it. Yeah, whenever I was going out in 613 00:45:20.159 --> 00:45:25.840 the field, there was a couple of events that took place that shook me 614 00:45:25.920 --> 00:45:31.320 up pretty bad. One specifically, I mean it sent me out of the 615 00:45:31.320 --> 00:45:35.679 wood. I was done. I didn't go At the time, I was 616 00:45:36.280 --> 00:45:43.320 very active in the field. Primary research location was like a three hour car 617 00:45:43.400 --> 00:45:46.079 ride. I had friends there that I could stay with, you know, 618 00:45:46.280 --> 00:45:53.079 I was able to afford to do it at the time. This event, 619 00:45:53.400 --> 00:45:55.480 I mean, it knocked me out of the woods. For three months straight. 620 00:45:55.960 --> 00:46:00.840 I would not go back, and it was it was one of those 621 00:46:00.880 --> 00:46:04.360 situations where it was like, Okay, well, I've been doing this for 622 00:46:04.440 --> 00:46:07.119 years, but this it's not being normal. It's not acting like it's supposed 623 00:46:07.119 --> 00:46:13.119 to act. Something's weird about this, and it just terrified me and I 624 00:46:13.159 --> 00:46:16.480 just couldn't do it. I just couldn't do it and then not be able 625 00:46:16.480 --> 00:46:20.880 to quantify it, Like that's the part that you know, it really got 626 00:46:20.920 --> 00:46:23.360 to me. And you know, I, like I said, sometimes I 627 00:46:23.400 --> 00:46:27.760 feel like because I've told the story it, you know, it's kind of 628 00:46:27.760 --> 00:46:30.559 burned out on me. Like, but to people listening to this for the 629 00:46:30.599 --> 00:46:32.000 first time, they're probably like, why the hell would you go back into 630 00:46:32.039 --> 00:46:36.719 it? Because it really is and I think you can relate to this. 631 00:46:36.760 --> 00:46:42.880 Man, there's something about this that's not like anything else, and it maybe 632 00:46:42.920 --> 00:46:45.239 it's part of wanting to be somebody to solve the mystery or wanting to be 633 00:46:45.320 --> 00:46:51.039 a part of this, the story of this because there's a time invested now, 634 00:46:51.239 --> 00:46:54.400 you know, Like I don't know, it's it's different, and I 635 00:46:54.400 --> 00:46:57.840 I love it. I love it more now I think than I did when 636 00:46:57.880 --> 00:47:01.199 I started. But I'll tell you one of the things that makes it difficult 637 00:47:01.239 --> 00:47:06.920 to continue to carry on podcasting for myself is that I feel like there's not 638 00:47:06.960 --> 00:47:09.519 a lot of new stuff going on, Like there's not a lot of new 639 00:47:09.519 --> 00:47:15.159 evidence, or that we should be further along in the evidence with evidence collection 640 00:47:15.280 --> 00:47:19.480 or with new stuff than what's actually out there. Do you share that like 641 00:47:19.559 --> 00:47:23.360 we should have something better at this point. Yeah. So someone else I 642 00:47:24.119 --> 00:47:30.239 know just recently mentioned that on another podcast, how this particular researcher had started 643 00:47:30.239 --> 00:47:35.239 a podcast and was going for a while and had stopped and geez, I 644 00:47:35.280 --> 00:47:38.239 don't think they've even done one for like a couple of years now. But 645 00:47:38.440 --> 00:47:42.400 he was a guest on a different show, and he said the reason that 646 00:47:42.400 --> 00:47:46.599 we quitz because there's just nothing new to report, there's no new information, 647 00:47:49.159 --> 00:47:54.039 and there's really not for something. I mean, in all aspects of the 648 00:47:54.079 --> 00:47:58.920 world, everything has progressed over the past fifty years, but this is one 649 00:47:58.920 --> 00:48:02.239 subject that has not. Yeah, it hasn't. It's almost like it stood 650 00:48:02.239 --> 00:48:07.000 still. And a lot of people I just recently I'm not going to mention 651 00:48:07.119 --> 00:48:13.400 who it was because I don't want to start any drama, but I just 652 00:48:13.599 --> 00:48:15.079 you know, there's a couple of different people, as a matter of fact, 653 00:48:15.119 --> 00:48:19.800 this past week, who have talked about, hey, I've got this 654 00:48:19.880 --> 00:48:22.840 new idea. We're really trying to do something different that's never been done before. 655 00:48:22.880 --> 00:48:24.760 And I'm just like, yeah, that was going on twenty years ago. 656 00:48:27.000 --> 00:48:30.280 That's that's art. Yeah, that's frustration. Like, yeah, read 657 00:48:30.320 --> 00:48:34.159 a little bit go back and look into this stuff, because you're gonna find 658 00:48:34.920 --> 00:48:37.199 a lot of what you're trying to do has already been tried. Like it's 659 00:48:37.239 --> 00:48:40.039 it's been done. And I hate to be that been there, done that, 660 00:48:40.199 --> 00:48:44.039 you know, Matt, but it has been. We had a lot 661 00:48:44.079 --> 00:48:47.280 of really smart people, people that are far smarter than I'll ever be in 662 00:48:47.320 --> 00:48:51.920 this field at one point in time where they tried to do some pretty remarkable 663 00:48:51.960 --> 00:48:55.079 things, oh for sure, for sure, and they almost sometimes almost as 664 00:48:55.159 --> 00:48:59.320 much as they started, they left because I think they knew that this mystery 665 00:48:59.360 --> 00:49:04.119 is harder to then it looks on paper. You know, we're talking about 666 00:49:04.159 --> 00:49:07.119 something that has some form of intelligence, may or may not have abilities we 667 00:49:07.239 --> 00:49:12.719 can or can't document document in other animals. I'm not saying, and that's 668 00:49:12.719 --> 00:49:15.719 a stretch statement for me if you've known me for all those years, Like, 669 00:49:15.400 --> 00:49:21.440 there is an element to this that is kind of and I'm folks, 670 00:49:21.519 --> 00:49:23.480 I'm not a paranormalist, but there's a kind of elements sometimes that are a 671 00:49:23.519 --> 00:49:31.239 little paranormal rights. There is something going on out there that can't be explain 672 00:49:31.360 --> 00:49:37.519 or quantified with modern science period. Right, I've taught over the weekend, 673 00:49:37.559 --> 00:49:40.519 I talked to some pretty smart people that you know, you wanted to have 674 00:49:40.559 --> 00:49:44.480 a conversation with me about it because you know who you're the bigfoot guy. 675 00:49:45.679 --> 00:49:47.599 Have you thought about I have thought about this, but you know, if 676 00:49:47.639 --> 00:49:51.519 I bring that up to somebody with a scientific brain, I look like a 677 00:49:51.599 --> 00:49:55.400 quack. But you bringing it up kind of makes me think that maybe there's 678 00:49:55.440 --> 00:50:00.079 something into this. And that conversation was and I I feel still even talking 679 00:50:00.079 --> 00:50:05.320 about it, Matt, But you know they had anybody thought about has anybody 680 00:50:05.360 --> 00:50:07.199 thought about portals? Well, yeah, because they're not into this field really 681 00:50:07.239 --> 00:50:12.519 besides you know, knowing me, Yeah, they've talked about portals. And 682 00:50:12.559 --> 00:50:15.000 I say, this is why I said, there's no way to document this, 683 00:50:15.159 --> 00:50:17.760 that they will prove that they're real, and he goes, well, 684 00:50:19.000 --> 00:50:22.760 or maybe it's because the genesis of them isn't on this side. This is 685 00:50:22.800 --> 00:50:27.679 just the exit point. You might not be able to detect it through its 686 00:50:27.679 --> 00:50:30.840 exit. Maybe you're only able to detect it from the area that originates and 687 00:50:30.920 --> 00:50:34.400 we can't detect that because we're not there. Not too long ago, I 688 00:50:34.480 --> 00:50:42.719 was privy to being a part of another podcast calling All Beings It's more UFO 689 00:50:42.840 --> 00:50:45.039 based. That's how I'm at all those people, but they have interest in 690 00:50:45.079 --> 00:50:50.000 Bigfoot as well. And I'm multifaceted, you know, I'm interested in all 691 00:50:50.039 --> 00:50:52.320 of it. But they had a T. J. Allard on there as 692 00:50:52.360 --> 00:50:57.280 a guest. T J. Allard is a producer for a Skinwalker ranch, 693 00:50:59.000 --> 00:51:02.440 you know, the popular TV series, and the discussion of portal came up 694 00:51:02.440 --> 00:51:07.719 with him, and he said something that I hadn't even thought about. And 695 00:51:07.880 --> 00:51:14.440 that's about the way that we use our words and everything and we talk about 696 00:51:14.639 --> 00:51:22.960 portals. It automatically paints a picture of some sort of portal exactly what it 697 00:51:22.039 --> 00:51:27.280 is, an entrance of some kind of a doorway to go between here and 698 00:51:27.320 --> 00:51:32.320 there. But what if it's not a portal? What if it's just a 699 00:51:34.159 --> 00:51:42.079 situation that allows for a manifestation or a window as opposed to a doorway, 700 00:51:42.239 --> 00:51:45.320 you know, something of that nature. And I hadn't even like thought about 701 00:51:45.360 --> 00:51:51.519 that sort of thing. But I think one of the huge problems with all 702 00:51:51.519 --> 00:51:54.519 of the paranormal stuff as far as us old school flesh and blood guys are 703 00:51:54.559 --> 00:52:00.320 concerned, not that you know, I grew up experience paranormal activity in my 704 00:52:00.360 --> 00:52:06.960 home. I was into the paranormal before Bigfoot I don't have an issue with 705 00:52:07.079 --> 00:52:13.639 paranormal stuff. My issue is I'm well aware that with flesh and blood I 706 00:52:13.679 --> 00:52:15.920 can look for tracks and cast them and look for hair samples and all that. 707 00:52:15.960 --> 00:52:21.480 But with paranormal stuff, you know, we're sol there's nothing we can 708 00:52:21.519 --> 00:52:25.519 do about it. There's no way to prove anything or test anything. Whenever 709 00:52:25.559 --> 00:52:29.719 it comes to the paranormal I agree with you one hundred percent. And that's 710 00:52:29.760 --> 00:52:32.800 kind of the conundrum or at and us old flesh and blood guys. I 711 00:52:32.800 --> 00:52:37.920 mean, the fact of the matter is where I've tried to start, you 712 00:52:37.960 --> 00:52:40.840 know, bringing myself to the discussion that it's okay for me to think in 713 00:52:40.880 --> 00:52:47.559 these terms, and that seems silly. Is that because it's not documentable scientifically 714 00:52:47.599 --> 00:52:52.039 doesn't mean it's not possible, right, And I think I can rest better 715 00:52:52.119 --> 00:52:57.280 with that thinking that, you know, maybe I'm not joining the paranormal train, 716 00:52:57.360 --> 00:52:59.880 but there's aspects of this that just can't be explained. I mean, 717 00:53:00.000 --> 00:53:04.000 think about it. Footprints they just end. They're not doing the world's greatest 718 00:53:04.000 --> 00:53:07.760 moonwalk back through them. Where did the footprints go? Where do they just 719 00:53:07.079 --> 00:53:12.320 end? And we've been documenting that for years. Stan Gordon himself you know, 720 00:53:12.559 --> 00:53:16.719 a pretty big name in Pennsylvania research and UFO all uphology, and even 721 00:53:16.840 --> 00:53:22.800 he you know, there has to be an explanation. They just don't stop. 722 00:53:22.840 --> 00:53:25.880 Where do they go? And I don't have an answer for that, 723 00:53:25.960 --> 00:53:30.119 and that that's always bothered me, not being able to answer a question that 724 00:53:30.280 --> 00:53:35.760 seems so simple and the answer is simple, but just kind of bringing myself 725 00:53:35.800 --> 00:53:37.960 to say, hey, it's a potentiality, you know, has always been 726 00:53:38.000 --> 00:53:43.880 hard because it didn't fit in my wheelhouse right right, didn't feel what my 727 00:53:43.960 --> 00:53:46.760 perception of what bigfoot is. And as I as I said, as we've 728 00:53:46.880 --> 00:53:51.960 rowned through this and have grown through this, that's changed a little bit. 729 00:53:51.960 --> 00:53:54.000 That doesn't mean I'm going to believe everything, you know. I still want 730 00:53:54.039 --> 00:53:59.440 proof. I want some pretty good proof. But I don't think I'm going 731 00:53:59.519 --> 00:54:01.320 to throw it out anymore. I'm going to put it into that's interesting, 732 00:54:01.400 --> 00:54:06.119 or let's notate it, because that's the scientific thing to do. Let's notate 733 00:54:06.199 --> 00:54:10.599 this, but let's try to gather evidence to support everything we're talking about here. 734 00:54:10.639 --> 00:54:15.199 And I think for me, Matt, the biggest problem with trying to 735 00:54:15.239 --> 00:54:20.079 find an answer to something is you can't answer it with another mystery right. 736 00:54:21.480 --> 00:54:23.719 You know, that's just not how it works. And we have a hard 737 00:54:23.880 --> 00:54:28.599 enough time. We had, I think a hard enough time trying to get 738 00:54:28.599 --> 00:54:30.920 people to take us seriously. Now people take us seriously, it's still I 739 00:54:30.960 --> 00:54:36.559 think they want they want proof. They just want proof. And you know, 740 00:54:36.679 --> 00:54:40.400 unfortunately we haven't had anything. We haven't had any good proof or any 741 00:54:40.440 --> 00:54:45.519 good evidence in years. Here's a question I'll ask you that I've been asking 742 00:54:45.559 --> 00:54:51.840 a lot of people lately. Removing the Patterson Gimlin film from the equation entirely 743 00:54:52.519 --> 00:54:57.920 not up for debate. What's the best piece of evidence besides that? You 744 00:54:57.960 --> 00:55:00.239 know, I honestly think it's all the audio we had. I really think 745 00:55:00.280 --> 00:55:05.800 all the audio recordings we have that can't be explained, and we've got a 746 00:55:05.840 --> 00:55:12.639 lot of people looking at this now is compelling. Because something's making those sounds. 747 00:55:12.639 --> 00:55:15.760 That's a physical manifestation. And if you can rule that out based on 748 00:55:16.840 --> 00:55:22.480 you know, spectrographs of other creatures and other noises and within frequencies and so 749 00:55:22.599 --> 00:55:25.400 on and so forth, that gets a little harder to dispel. We may 750 00:55:25.480 --> 00:55:31.480 not have And look, you know, I think the biggest mistake people make 751 00:55:31.599 --> 00:55:36.000 is trying to use the Patterson film as the foundation for their big belief. 752 00:55:37.519 --> 00:55:43.440 I think you're just setting yourself up for fail there what I think? You 753 00:55:43.480 --> 00:55:45.800 know? Also, you know kind of I guess the jury's out in the 754 00:55:45.840 --> 00:55:50.280 Scukum cast anymore too, right, like Scuokum cast, which I mean if 755 00:55:50.280 --> 00:55:52.679 you talk to some people, the jury's always been out. Yeah, Like 756 00:55:53.519 --> 00:56:00.480 I mean, nothing physical has been concrete enough to say, yeah, this 757 00:56:00.559 --> 00:56:02.400 is what it is. You know, you can you know, we even 758 00:56:02.440 --> 00:56:07.760 go back to the doctor Ketchum DNA study and how that was poorly mishandled. 759 00:56:07.760 --> 00:56:12.519 And regardless of what anybody feels, the fact of the matter is science and 760 00:56:12.639 --> 00:56:16.719 your reputation go hand in hand. And if you don't aren't reputable, you're 761 00:56:16.760 --> 00:56:20.239 not going to be taken seriously. So does it matter if you have the 762 00:56:20.280 --> 00:56:23.199 world's greatest evidence or greatest study. You're not credible. They're not even going 763 00:56:23.239 --> 00:56:25.920 to listen to it. You're going to throw it out. When you act 764 00:56:25.960 --> 00:56:30.039 in a way that's you know, makes it even less credible, it gets 765 00:56:30.039 --> 00:56:34.559 harder. So we've had a lot of junk science and a lot of mishandling, 766 00:56:34.599 --> 00:56:37.639 and a lot of amateur mistakes that have caused I think perhaps it's sometimes 767 00:56:37.639 --> 00:56:43.719 some really good evidence to just not even be considered. So we just have 768 00:56:43.800 --> 00:56:49.559 to act. We have to find scientists that ethically, scientists that are willing 769 00:56:49.599 --> 00:56:52.880 to sit down and really agree to look at this. And I think we 770 00:56:52.960 --> 00:56:57.440 have to have people that are trained to collect evidence better. And I think 771 00:56:57.880 --> 00:57:01.239 we have a responsibility ourselves to put ourselves through that, to train and to 772 00:57:01.360 --> 00:57:07.400 get that that technique down. Which is why I think working with more people 773 00:57:07.440 --> 00:57:12.280 of law enforcement has been beneficial for me, because I'm learning how to collect 774 00:57:12.320 --> 00:57:16.719 evidence in a more forensic manner, a better way that's not contaminated, and 775 00:57:16.880 --> 00:57:22.400 it's you know, going to be more accepted if you if you can have 776 00:57:22.400 --> 00:57:24.360 a chain of custody from the moment you collected that evidence to how it was 777 00:57:24.400 --> 00:57:29.559 handled in documentation, all the way up to the time it's processed and analyzed, 778 00:57:29.639 --> 00:57:34.960 how can you dispute that? Right, There's there's so much arguing that 779 00:57:35.039 --> 00:57:38.960 doesn't even have to take place that constantly does. We don't have to argue 780 00:57:39.000 --> 00:57:45.760 about whether or not these things have paranormal attributes or whatever. We should all 781 00:57:45.800 --> 00:57:52.320 be working on the same page to you know, figure out definitive, definitively 782 00:57:52.880 --> 00:57:54.679 how to prove that they're out there to begin with, and then we can 783 00:57:54.679 --> 00:57:59.800 start worrying about all that other stuff. You're right, and and that's that's 784 00:57:59.800 --> 00:58:01.800 why I think I've come to all this in the last few years. Mat 785 00:58:02.719 --> 00:58:06.800 is what you just said. How about we find ways to document and prove 786 00:58:06.880 --> 00:58:10.280 this exists. If through this existence we discover that, hey, the thing 787 00:58:10.360 --> 00:58:14.800 came out of a portal and we have proof of that, I'll eat the 788 00:58:14.800 --> 00:58:16.639 biggest slice of humble pie in my life. I'll be glad to say I 789 00:58:16.800 --> 00:58:21.480 was wrong. Nothing would make me happier to say it was wrong, because 790 00:58:21.480 --> 00:58:22.840 at the end of the day, we proved it was real. That's what 791 00:58:22.960 --> 00:58:28.159 really matters. Everything else we can learn after the fact. But we know 792 00:58:28.239 --> 00:58:30.440 here we are. You know, like you said, we have the argument 793 00:58:30.480 --> 00:58:35.280 and fight over the stupidest things. Let's come together and say, let's just 794 00:58:35.360 --> 00:58:38.800 collect. It doesn't matter what you or Bob or myself believe. It's what 795 00:58:38.840 --> 00:58:43.880 we're documenting in what we're getting that will tell the story, whether we agree 796 00:58:43.920 --> 00:58:47.719 with the you know together or not initially, at the end we'll all come 797 00:58:47.760 --> 00:58:53.360 together on its proof and then we'll let that tell the story. Are there 798 00:58:53.400 --> 00:58:59.440 any other cryptids that you're into or that you think exists out there besides Bigfoot. 799 00:59:00.960 --> 00:59:05.920 Oh, you know, my sister's a big lake monster enthusiast, My 800 00:59:06.480 --> 00:59:09.159 little sister. She's not really little anymore, but you know, she's in 801 00:59:09.159 --> 00:59:14.719 her thirties now, but she's always been a lake monster enthusiast. I feel 802 00:59:14.800 --> 00:59:21.119 like there could be some merit to Lockness. I don't think it's what we 803 00:59:21.199 --> 00:59:23.440 think it is. I think it's something. I don't think it's the giant 804 00:59:23.480 --> 00:59:30.800 pleasi so or everybody believes after that. I don't know. I have a 805 00:59:30.800 --> 00:59:36.000 hard time with dog Man. I've always had a hard time with it, 806 00:59:36.199 --> 00:59:39.760 and it kind of for me, I feel like it's been misidentified Bigfoot. 807 00:59:40.400 --> 00:59:45.559 That's what I always felt, and I think when we start adding attributes to 808 00:59:45.639 --> 00:59:51.039 it, it's more fantasy than truth. But again then I never saw one 809 00:59:51.079 --> 00:59:53.280 either, so how can I say that. It's just again you go to 810 00:59:53.280 --> 00:59:58.119 what I'm comfortable with. Right, it's hard for us bigfoot guys to get 811 00:59:58.119 --> 01:00:02.199 off that stunt man is it is? It's very difficult. It's hard. 812 01:00:02.480 --> 01:00:06.599 So I don't know. I think maybe Lochness, like I said, and 813 01:00:07.840 --> 01:00:10.360 I'm open minded on the dogman type thing. But I don't know. I'm 814 01:00:10.400 --> 01:00:16.480 so burnt on on some of these other cryptids, Like don't you know in 815 01:00:16.599 --> 01:00:20.639 Mothman. I think Mothman's a great story. I go to the Mothman Festival 816 01:00:20.679 --> 01:00:23.159 every year. I think it's a blast. But I think it's just built 817 01:00:23.800 --> 01:00:34.119 on an owl. I do. Yeah. I just interviewed moth Boy Matt 818 01:00:34.199 --> 01:00:38.360 from the moth Boys podcast, and yeah, he's part of this, you 819 01:00:38.400 --> 01:00:45.239 know, this younger generation that we've seen, these guys and gals and miscellaneous 820 01:00:45.239 --> 01:00:50.880 others that are in their twenty somethings and early thirties that have kind of swept 821 01:00:50.960 --> 01:00:55.880 over the cryptid community and turned in kind of a a festival type setting, 822 01:00:57.840 --> 01:01:00.599 which is awesome. I haven't met an anybody that I haven't liked so far, 823 01:01:02.119 --> 01:01:06.840 but Crypted's are kind of trendy now they are. They're kind of trendy, 824 01:01:07.079 --> 01:01:10.119 and the more obscure crypted the better. It's no longer you know, 825 01:01:10.199 --> 01:01:14.760 like, oh, you know, as serious old guys talking about Bigfoot. 826 01:01:14.960 --> 01:01:19.119 It's now just like whatever is out there is on the table and it's all 827 01:01:19.119 --> 01:01:22.159 cool and you know, get a tattoo of it and sell some T shirts 828 01:01:22.199 --> 01:01:27.639 and it's crazy Man, it's so different than what we came up in. 829 01:01:28.679 --> 01:01:30.239 And you know what, folks need to enjoy it while they can. Yeah, 830 01:01:30.280 --> 01:01:34.320 because it's gonna lose. It's gonna lose it at some point. You 831 01:01:34.360 --> 01:01:37.159 know, we've been through the EBB and flows before. Yeah, it's gonna 832 01:01:37.199 --> 01:01:40.360 lose. It's dirty, and then we'll still be here doing, you know 833 01:01:40.440 --> 01:01:44.559 what we do. And I don't get bet out of shape about the festival 834 01:01:44.559 --> 01:01:46.920 because I think anything that can create awareness to what we're doing. You don't 835 01:01:46.920 --> 01:01:50.440 know who that's going to attract. If you don't know who that's going to 836 01:01:50.480 --> 01:01:52.639 inspire, and believe it or not. You know, if we're going to 837 01:01:52.760 --> 01:01:55.480 keep this field of research going, it still needs people, it still needs 838 01:01:55.480 --> 01:02:00.920 boots on the ground, and you know we're are some of our favorite researchers 839 01:02:00.920 --> 01:02:06.440 aren't here anymore, you know, and we have to keep that mantle. 840 01:02:07.039 --> 01:02:09.119 You know, we have to keep it going, and it's going to need 841 01:02:09.280 --> 01:02:13.480 more and more people to be involved with it. I was always hoping that 842 01:02:13.519 --> 01:02:15.519 one of my kids would be involved in this. I have three kids, 843 01:02:16.679 --> 01:02:20.519 and I have a daughter that's twenty, a sound seventeen, and one that's 844 01:02:20.559 --> 01:02:25.119 twelve, and my seventeen year old son Gabe's on my Facebook page with me 845 01:02:25.199 --> 01:02:28.679 going out on these. He's the one. I'm always hopeful that he's going 846 01:02:28.719 --> 01:02:31.360 to get bit by this and really be interested. But I think to them 847 01:02:31.400 --> 01:02:34.559 it's still something to do with that. I don't think they have a real 848 01:02:34.599 --> 01:02:37.320 interest, which is a shame. So now I have you know, we 849 01:02:37.440 --> 01:02:40.639 just got to If I can't grow my own, I have to find my 850 01:02:40.639 --> 01:02:44.760 own. So like I'm going to have to find a new protege to go 851 01:02:44.840 --> 01:02:47.800 out and get to investigate the take over for the day where I can't do 852 01:02:47.840 --> 01:02:52.599 this anymore if we haven't solved it. Like, I want people in this 853 01:02:52.679 --> 01:02:55.840 mystery. I want them to be a part of this. It's at the 854 01:02:55.920 --> 01:03:00.159 end of the day, Matt, We're I'm just a page on this story, 855 01:03:00.920 --> 01:03:05.159 this great story that's been ongoing, and I want more and more people 856 01:03:05.199 --> 01:03:07.760 involved in this until we solve it. We need we need boots on the 857 01:03:07.760 --> 01:03:10.559 ground. We need people involved, and if they're brought to us by a 858 01:03:10.639 --> 01:03:15.079 crypted bash or a moth Man festival, have at it. I'm glad. 859 01:03:15.320 --> 01:03:20.519 I'm happy. So after it's all said and done, what does the Sean 860 01:03:20.639 --> 01:03:24.719 Forker legacy look like, why do you hope to have accomplished by the time 861 01:03:24.920 --> 01:03:29.360 you're all done with this journey? And how do you want to be remembered. 862 01:03:30.800 --> 01:03:31.800 Well, I think with everybody, I want to be the one that 863 01:03:31.840 --> 01:03:35.360 solves it. I'm not going to be, but I think I would like 864 01:03:35.400 --> 01:03:37.199 to be the one who does it. But you know what, I hope 865 01:03:37.239 --> 01:03:42.280 people understood I was a fat kid that cared amen brother, I was a 866 01:03:42.360 --> 01:03:45.679 kid that had a passion of this growing up. I started a podcast and 867 01:03:45.760 --> 01:03:50.920 oh six to talk about it, and I just dedicated a lot of my 868 01:03:51.000 --> 01:03:55.000 life to investigating it and you know, being out in the woods and meeting 869 01:03:55.000 --> 01:03:59.239 great people. I've met so many tremendous people I never would have met if 870 01:03:59.239 --> 01:04:03.679 it wasn't for this this field, and I'm thankful for that as it has 871 01:04:03.719 --> 01:04:10.119 been frustrating. Absolutely it's been frustrating. But you know, looking back on 872 01:04:10.159 --> 01:04:12.960 this now of twenty eight years of it, I don't regret anything. I 873 01:04:12.960 --> 01:04:15.800 think they're well, you know what, I have one regret. I wish 874 01:04:15.840 --> 01:04:18.840 I would have been a lot more open minded sooner and maybe that could have 875 01:04:18.920 --> 01:04:24.199 led to some different results later on down the road. But aside from that 876 01:04:24.320 --> 01:04:29.480 regret, I really don't have anything compelling that I wish I could have changed. 877 01:04:29.880 --> 01:04:31.960 I've enjoyed it. It's been fun, and I look forward to another. 878 01:04:32.000 --> 01:04:35.360 I'm still young. I'm not forty yet, so I've done this for 879 01:04:35.360 --> 01:04:39.639 a long time, so I've got another fifty sixty years. I've told my 880 01:04:39.639 --> 01:04:42.079 family I'm going to live till on one hundred and fifty. You got to 881 01:04:42.119 --> 01:04:44.800 have goals. So if this keeps me on it right, you know, 882 01:04:44.880 --> 01:04:48.079 I'm going to be you know, I might be the world's oldest sasquatch researcher 883 01:04:48.119 --> 01:04:50.639 at some point. That'll be a heck of a thing to be remembered for. 884 01:04:50.840 --> 01:04:56.599 Are we going to get a book by mister Shan Forkery. I've been 885 01:04:56.599 --> 01:05:00.119 writing this this book now for I think five years, and I've deleted it 886 01:05:00.159 --> 01:05:04.079 twice. Like I've had some good parts of it written and I've deleted it 887 01:05:04.079 --> 01:05:08.719 because it's not where I wanted to go. I want it to have the 888 01:05:08.800 --> 01:05:11.679 humor when you read it. I want you to read it in my voice. 889 01:05:11.760 --> 01:05:15.480 I want you to have the humor and the excitement and the love because 890 01:05:15.480 --> 01:05:17.800 it's gonna be not just about some of the cases. It's about the people 891 01:05:17.840 --> 01:05:20.360 too. And it's about the experience. I said, it's going to be 892 01:05:20.880 --> 01:05:28.000 part biography, part field research, and part you know, case studies. 893 01:05:28.079 --> 01:05:30.800 Like I think it's a it's going to be unique, a unique type of 894 01:05:30.840 --> 01:05:36.920 book that hopefully people add to their collection. Should I ever get it finished, 895 01:05:38.199 --> 01:05:41.280 Well, sir, I hope you do, and I hope I get 896 01:05:41.280 --> 01:05:44.239 an autograph copy of it. You'll you'll definitely get one. Man, it's 897 01:05:44.280 --> 01:05:46.360 been a long time since we've done this. Uh, you know, I 898 01:05:46.440 --> 01:05:50.679 got Sasquatch Experience with me because you just all we've been a good dude. 899 01:05:50.840 --> 01:05:58.639 I think we've been uh you know, acquainted through this since the early days, 900 01:05:58.719 --> 01:06:01.079 and good or bad, I've always had a respect for you. Rather 901 01:06:01.079 --> 01:06:03.880 we've been on the same side of an issue or not. And it's just 902 01:06:03.960 --> 01:06:06.239 good to talk to you. I've had so much fun tonight. Thank you. 903 01:06:06.519 --> 01:06:11.519 Yeah for sure. Well, let everybody know where they can find you 904 01:06:11.719 --> 01:06:15.719 and the Sasquatch Experience. Well, you can find me on every social media 905 01:06:15.960 --> 01:06:20.199 at Sean Forker, it's my name. I don't hide behind a pseudonym or 906 01:06:20.239 --> 01:06:25.159 anything. I'm an open book. And then you go to Sasquatch Experience dot 907 01:06:25.239 --> 01:06:28.480 Com and get tell all our links. If you like what you hear, 908 01:06:28.519 --> 01:06:32.280 subscribe. You know, it's not always for everybody, but there's something we 909 01:06:32.320 --> 01:06:35.079 try to make something for everybody. We're just a little different, you know. 910 01:06:35.119 --> 01:06:41.760 We try to do a little bit more news and opinion than witness interviews. 911 01:06:42.039 --> 01:06:44.159 But you never know what you're going to hear when you tune in, 912 01:06:44.199 --> 01:06:46.960 so it's always a good time. I got vance Nesbit, Henry May and 913 01:06:47.039 --> 01:06:50.679 James Baker with me. We're a four man team, which is daunting in 914 01:06:50.719 --> 01:06:55.960 itself, but Henry May there, Matt has been another name that's been around 915 01:06:55.960 --> 01:07:03.199 forever, bro the Bigfoot Encyclopedia himself Elf Henry May he is and I yeah, 916 01:07:03.239 --> 01:07:06.880 he's very blessed to have him around when you when I have a question, 917 01:07:08.079 --> 01:07:12.440 he's always there, Dame Well, I appreciate it, Sean. And 918 01:07:12.559 --> 01:07:15.840 if you've had your own experience with something you can't explain Bigfoot or otherwise, 919 01:07:15.960 --> 01:07:20.800 email me at Bigfootcrossroads at gmail dot com. Check out Bigfootcrossroads dot com for 920 01:07:20.920 --> 01:07:25.920 links to the social media, contact information, links to the merch everything you 921 01:07:25.960 --> 01:07:30.639 need all in one place. And until next time, I remember, there's 922 01:07:30.679 --> 01:07:30.559 something in the woods.