WEBVTT 1 00:00:01.000 --> 00:00:04.759 How'd you like to listen to dot net rocks with no ads? Easy? 2 00:00:05.320 --> 00:00:09.400 Become a patron for just five dollars a month. You get access to a 3 00:00:09.480 --> 00:00:14.240 private RSS feed where all the shows have no ads. Twenty dollars a month. 4 00:00:14.240 --> 00:00:18.399 We'll get you that and a special dot net Rocks patron mug. Sign 5 00:00:18.480 --> 00:00:23.679 up now at Patreon dot dot net rocks dot com. Hey Carlin Richard here. 6 00:00:24.039 --> 00:00:28.480 As you may have heard, NDC is back offering their incredible in person 7 00:00:28.559 --> 00:00:33.960 conferences around the world. DC Porto is happening October sixteenth through the twentieth. 8 00:00:34.240 --> 00:00:38.280 Go to dc porto dot com to register and check out the full lineup of 9 00:00:38.320 --> 00:01:02.079 conferences at NDC conferences dot com. Coming at you from the eye of the 10 00:01:02.159 --> 00:01:07.480 storm, Rock Hurricane it is in Yeah, that was Colleen Lavin and Richard 11 00:01:07.480 --> 00:01:14.560 and I are here in Denmark in copenating in an airstream and us understorm, 12 00:01:14.719 --> 00:01:19.840 exactly where you want to be in a thunderstorm. It's just a large metal 13 00:01:19.840 --> 00:01:23.599 box. I'm pretty sure this is a large metal box on rubber tires. 14 00:01:23.680 --> 00:01:29.640 Will this be the last ever episode of Rock Once for All? For roud 15 00:01:29.840 --> 00:01:34.840 by a thunderstick found in a smoldering ruin any card. What's on it? 16 00:01:37.640 --> 00:01:42.719 We better make it worth it before are given it to mis Oh my god, 17 00:01:42.719 --> 00:01:46.519 it's so much fun of robots think she's funny, but I'm pretty sure 18 00:01:46.560 --> 00:01:49.560 I think she's funny. It's pretty funny. Thank you very much. Well, 19 00:01:49.599 --> 00:01:52.920 we'll talk to Colleen in a minute, but first we have a little 20 00:01:52.920 --> 00:02:04.719 housekeeping starting with better no framework. Roll that music? All right, man, 21 00:02:04.719 --> 00:02:07.280 what do you got? Okay? So this was another suggestion by one 22 00:02:07.319 --> 00:02:09.199 of the AX guys. I think it might have even been Brian McKay. 23 00:02:10.000 --> 00:02:16.319 This is Cursor, the AI first code editor. So this is like a 24 00:02:16.400 --> 00:02:23.240 combination of GitHub, Copilot and you know, vs code, but more tightly 25 00:02:23.280 --> 00:02:28.199 integrated. And it's at Cursor dot s O. And I'm just going to 26 00:02:28.280 --> 00:02:31.759 read some of the comments that they posted here. Started using cursory yesterday and 27 00:02:31.800 --> 00:02:38.159 I'm blown away. It's how copilot should feel. I'm completely off vs code 28 00:02:38.199 --> 00:02:42.599 now, great work, you guys. Two concrete examples. One, it 29 00:02:42.719 --> 00:02:46.919 generated a new view set for me using the correct schema of my Django models 30 00:02:46.280 --> 00:02:52.639 that were mentioned in a completely different file. That's interesting too. I asked 31 00:02:52.639 --> 00:02:55.479 it a time zone question about a cron tab and it generated the answer in 32 00:02:55.520 --> 00:03:00.840 context in the correct place in my Celery Beats schedule. I love things like 33 00:03:00.879 --> 00:03:06.840 this because it feels like I'm reading science switching again in a completely different file, 34 00:03:06.879 --> 00:03:08.719 and there's about one hundred files in the whole project. It's awesome. 35 00:03:09.560 --> 00:03:13.520 So yeah, this is just one of the one of the things people are 36 00:03:13.639 --> 00:03:16.240 People are going nuts about this, I guess. And you can download it 37 00:03:16.319 --> 00:03:21.599 for Windows at Cursor dot s. There might be a Mac version too. 38 00:03:21.639 --> 00:03:24.560 I'm not sure. That's awesome. So who's talking to us today? Richard 39 00:03:24.599 --> 00:03:30.439 grabbed a Commatopper Show sixteen oh five. That's the one we did back in 40 00:03:30.520 --> 00:03:34.400 twenty eighteen. So it's been a while about IoT and edge computing. Jared 41 00:03:34.520 --> 00:03:38.360 Rose and that was we actually recorded that one in Prague at the Update conference 42 00:03:38.879 --> 00:03:40.039 in fact of the day, and this comments from Topper King he's been a 43 00:03:40.039 --> 00:03:43.680 regularistur for a long time. Hey, Chopper, hope ahead. Yeah, 44 00:03:43.719 --> 00:03:45.879 I'm pretty sure you already got to be used to go by, but don't 45 00:03:45.879 --> 00:03:47.800 hold that against us. Chopper said, you guys did a good job discuffing 46 00:03:47.879 --> 00:03:53.520 the creep and uncanny Valley aspects of IoT and sensor gathering too much data about 47 00:03:53.560 --> 00:03:57.919 individuals but one of the exciting things about good edge computing is that it can 48 00:03:57.919 --> 00:04:00.840 be used to overcome these issues. Pushing compute the edge you can allow you 49 00:04:00.879 --> 00:04:03.520 to get value from data well then ever transmitting it or saving it outside the 50 00:04:03.599 --> 00:04:09.400 environment it lives in. I had a fascinating discussion with a theme park technologist 51 00:04:09.439 --> 00:04:13.960 about doing sentiment anounces some people's facial expressions. They were rightfully concerned about people 52 00:04:14.000 --> 00:04:16.079 being creeked out that their mood was being tracked by the entire theme park. 53 00:04:16.319 --> 00:04:19.079 Yeah, but I suggested that if they never sent a frame of video or 54 00:04:19.120 --> 00:04:24.360 identifiable information, but deployed devices with cameras it only sent alerts when an edge 55 00:04:24.360 --> 00:04:29.240 device attected high unhappiness in a ride line, then they would preserve people's sense 56 00:04:29.279 --> 00:04:31.680 of privacy while still getting us giving a portion of the data they actually cared 57 00:04:31.680 --> 00:04:36.439 about. This is important implications for designs of all sorts for connected devices. 58 00:04:36.519 --> 00:04:40.120 I do want my fridge to tell me when I'm low on milk, but 59 00:04:40.199 --> 00:04:43.240 I don't want it to send pictures or even summary data of the contents of 60 00:04:43.240 --> 00:04:46.319 my fridge to general electric I don't care about my fridge telling me when I'm 61 00:04:46.360 --> 00:04:49.480 low on milk. The fact, you've heard me rant against that for many 62 00:04:50.399 --> 00:04:55.639 Why does my fridge need Wi Fi? I'm sorry, no, it should 63 00:04:55.639 --> 00:04:58.279 not. I fully agree with this, by the way, But you know 64 00:04:58.319 --> 00:05:02.079 what bugs me even more? WiFi connected in microwave. Oh yes, come 65 00:05:02.120 --> 00:05:08.040 on, I'm putting something in the microwave for sixty seconds on average. I 66 00:05:08.120 --> 00:05:10.720 do not need to control it from my phone. I don't care if that 67 00:05:10.720 --> 00:05:13.399 makes me a lot of I'm gonna be like my father and stand in front 68 00:05:13.399 --> 00:05:16.839 of me. Go come on, you just leave the door open. Then 69 00:05:16.839 --> 00:05:20.000 the WiFi seagles an't gonna be hurt anyway. Yeah, put your phone in 70 00:05:20.040 --> 00:05:25.040 there, you go. Yeah, microw have your phone. Let me let 71 00:05:25.040 --> 00:05:27.879 me finish stopper here. If you can deploy machine learning smarts all the way 72 00:05:27.920 --> 00:05:31.240 to the machine and keep them updated there, then device manufacturers can provide value 73 00:05:31.399 --> 00:05:34.800 in a much more respectful manner. Is already being supported a very cool manner 74 00:05:34.800 --> 00:05:40.279 by ours your cognitive services running inside locally hosted containers. I hope that both 75 00:05:40.279 --> 00:05:43.920 the marketing regulars drive IoT in this direction. What I love about this is 76 00:05:43.959 --> 00:05:46.920 it's five years old. Yes, like Chopper nailed it, nailed it five 77 00:05:47.040 --> 00:05:50.600 years ago. This is exactly director, you're moving in with machine learning models 78 00:05:50.720 --> 00:05:54.360 to the edge and that sort of thing. I just don't know how much 79 00:05:54.360 --> 00:05:57.720 people think about primacing this context. I think most people see a camera and 80 00:05:57.800 --> 00:06:00.639 presume you're misusing that data. So you have two problems. You have the 81 00:06:00.680 --> 00:06:05.480 privacy problem, where you know companies are legally bound to disclose what they're using 82 00:06:06.519 --> 00:06:10.399 for you. You would hope, hey, we hope. You also have 83 00:06:10.480 --> 00:06:15.079 the problem of understanding on the part of the consumer. They may not understand 84 00:06:15.160 --> 00:06:17.920 that it's for their own benefit and they may thank big brothers watching blah blah 85 00:06:17.920 --> 00:06:21.319 blah. I don't like that. And then on top of that, if 86 00:06:21.399 --> 00:06:25.680 you do say, hey, we're taking pictures you, we're gathering telemetry for 87 00:06:25.720 --> 00:06:29.480 your benefit, then a smart user will be able to game it. Yep. 88 00:06:29.600 --> 00:06:34.199 Yeah, so it's look pissed off, Yeah exactly, Look look look 89 00:06:34.279 --> 00:06:38.199 pissed off. And then somebody's going to come over and offer you a hot 90 00:06:38.240 --> 00:06:43.360 lotze. Yeah. Something. It's very interesting anyway, Greek Greek conversation starter 91 00:06:43.439 --> 00:06:46.360 there, topper, and thanks so much for listening to the show and contributing 92 00:06:46.439 --> 00:06:48.199 as always, and a copy of us to Code buy is honest. Way 93 00:06:48.199 --> 00:06:50.759 to you, actually, I suspect you already have one if you'd like a 94 00:06:50.759 --> 00:06:54.079 copy of used to Code I read a comment on the website at dot net 95 00:06:54.199 --> 00:06:56.720 rocks dot com or on the facebooks we published every show there, and if 96 00:06:56.759 --> 00:06:58.720 you comment there at ever ready on the show, we'll send you a copy 97 00:06:58.720 --> 00:07:01.480 of music code by And you should definitely follow us on Twitter or x or 98 00:07:01.519 --> 00:07:05.759 whatever the hell they're calling it these days. But I'm also on Mastodon, 99 00:07:05.920 --> 00:07:10.199 and as of yesterday, Richard, I'm on blue Ston Welcome to the Blue 100 00:07:10.199 --> 00:07:12.920 Sky class. So I'm also on LinkedIn and stuff, and I just figured 101 00:07:13.000 --> 00:07:15.839 I'm just gonna send people at Carl Franklin dot com because all of my social 102 00:07:15.879 --> 00:07:20.480 media links are there. Yeah, but what's your Mastodon? Mastodon is rich 103 00:07:20.519 --> 00:07:24.680 Campbell at mastodon dot social. My Blue Sky is rich Campbell as well. 104 00:07:25.360 --> 00:07:30.560 My Threads is rich candul and your Twitter slash x is at rich Campbell as 105 00:07:30.560 --> 00:07:32.720 well. So do you rest to grab one name? Right? So you 106 00:07:32.759 --> 00:07:35.319 might want to have like a do what I do, like make a Richard 107 00:07:35.319 --> 00:07:39.720 Campbell dot c a website and put them all there. Yeah, kind of 108 00:07:39.759 --> 00:07:42.360 about me somewhere with a bunch of that stuff. You should probably clean that 109 00:07:42.480 --> 00:07:46.160 up you know, well, there's nothing like the digital effluent that scatters across 110 00:07:46.279 --> 00:07:50.360 the Internet, and then when it goes down people remind you too. Yeah, 111 00:07:50.560 --> 00:07:55.360 hey, your your static website is down? Did you not pay your 112 00:07:55.360 --> 00:08:00.199 bill? Well, anyway, let's introduce Colleen for sure. Colleen l is 113 00:08:00.240 --> 00:08:05.000 the lead developer Advocated Particle with the background and software development and product management. 114 00:08:05.360 --> 00:08:09.920 She's worked with NASA Cool, We're in Royalty here in the Presence of Royalty, 115 00:08:09.000 --> 00:08:15.839 and was featured on Gimlet Media's startup podcast Great Great Podcast. When she's 116 00:08:15.879 --> 00:08:20.240 not playing with robots more on that later or coding, you can usually find 117 00:08:20.240 --> 00:08:24.279 her lost in the woods or on Twitter at Colleen Codes. Welcome. Hello, 118 00:08:24.439 --> 00:08:26.879 thank you very much for having me today. What do you like this? 119 00:08:28.120 --> 00:08:31.559 You like this rustic kind of podcast environment here? You know, I 120 00:08:31.600 --> 00:08:35.919 know it'll be audited out later, but I find the sound of the rain 121 00:08:35.080 --> 00:08:39.559 very calming. Yeah, okay, yeah, it's it is kind of epic. 122 00:08:39.600 --> 00:08:46.679 And look at this whole airstream trailer sort of approach of recording shows is 123 00:08:46.919 --> 00:08:50.039 like style over substance, Like it's very cool. Yeah, but it is 124 00:08:50.080 --> 00:08:54.919 a metal box not your ideal recording environment or we're going to try our best 125 00:08:54.960 --> 00:08:58.360 to remove the white noise from the background, but every once in a while 126 00:08:58.360 --> 00:09:03.080 you might hear some thunder or some an increase in some white noise or whatever, 127 00:09:03.240 --> 00:09:05.559 or maybe the large static verse of us being electrocuted by a lightning bolt. 128 00:09:07.000 --> 00:09:11.399 Only the audience is really lucky. We're not. I'm taking my hands 129 00:09:11.440 --> 00:09:16.879 off my computer right now. I've got my feet off the medical metal ground. 130 00:09:16.559 --> 00:09:20.480 So do the Robots think You're funny? Is? What is that all 131 00:09:20.519 --> 00:09:26.000 about? Do the robots think You're funny? So? I just wrapped up 132 00:09:26.039 --> 00:09:31.039 a few days ago, actually a full run at the end Refringe, with 133 00:09:31.120 --> 00:09:35.399 a comedy show entitled Do the Robots Think I'm Funny? It's a show where 134 00:09:37.240 --> 00:09:41.120 I wrote a program and on stage had a robot with me that listened for 135 00:09:41.159 --> 00:09:46.440 the sound of the audience laughter and kept what I like to call the laugh 136 00:09:46.600 --> 00:09:54.120 score throughout and so whenever, so the program would check in every so often, 137 00:09:54.240 --> 00:09:56.960 and when the last score wasn't where he wanted it to be. And 138 00:09:58.039 --> 00:10:01.759 I don't know why I called the robotic, but his name is murder Bots, 139 00:10:01.840 --> 00:10:07.679 so statistically I felt like it was probably so whenever he didn't think that 140 00:10:07.759 --> 00:10:11.919 I was as funny as I should have been at that point in the show. 141 00:10:11.399 --> 00:10:15.840 He would heckle me on stage, and then at the end I would 142 00:10:15.919 --> 00:10:20.240 run an analysis and murder Boat would say whether or not I was funny that 143 00:10:20.320 --> 00:10:24.080 day. But then, and here's the part that I liked a lot. 144 00:10:24.200 --> 00:10:28.039 Then, no matter what, the audience would get to vote whether or not 145 00:10:28.200 --> 00:10:33.200 they gave a hoot what murder Bot said, oh so, and whether or 146 00:10:33.279 --> 00:10:39.000 not it matched up. What was the result the results overall, well, 147 00:10:39.000 --> 00:10:43.279 there were like twenty two shows of it, so the result changed a lot. 148 00:10:43.360 --> 00:10:48.960 I also, I would say the first week it wasn't as accurate it 149 00:10:48.000 --> 00:10:52.720 was as it was later on, because especially the first couple of days, 150 00:10:52.120 --> 00:10:56.879 I had to retrain it with new data. I recorded every show on my 151 00:10:56.960 --> 00:11:01.240 phone and then would add that at every night. Well, okay, I 152 00:11:01.279 --> 00:11:07.200 skipped one or two nights, but I would overall add it to the models 153 00:11:07.200 --> 00:11:11.159 so it would become more and more accurate. Okay, And overall I was 154 00:11:11.200 --> 00:11:15.799 fairly lucky. The robot did things that I was funny a lot of the 155 00:11:15.840 --> 00:11:22.039 time. But more importantly, the whenever the robot said I wasn't funny, 156 00:11:22.200 --> 00:11:28.399 the audience would start booing it. I almost liked it more when the robot 157 00:11:28.440 --> 00:11:33.200 disliked me because the level of solidarity I felt with the audience in that moment 158 00:11:33.240 --> 00:11:35.879 absolutely, And you know you can both, you know, use the robot 159 00:11:35.919 --> 00:11:39.080 as the scapecoat, right, Oh yeah, yeah, it's not hey, 160 00:11:39.159 --> 00:11:43.080 it's not me. That's not funny. You know, don't boo me boo 161 00:11:43.120 --> 00:11:45.720 the robot. Oh so that, Oh yeah, I forgot about that. 162 00:11:46.080 --> 00:11:50.519 So this was actually an audience suggestion. A lovely audience member pulled me aside 163 00:11:50.519 --> 00:11:56.399 and gave me the suggestion that I added in. So whenever the robot heckled 164 00:11:56.440 --> 00:12:01.320 me, the audience was allowed to boo, and if they booed the robot, 165 00:12:01.799 --> 00:12:05.759 that got added in to my last score as a positive because they liked 166 00:12:05.840 --> 00:12:13.720 me. And that was a little like a little less accurate, because I 167 00:12:13.759 --> 00:12:16.720 will say the problem with that is when a lot of people say the word 168 00:12:16.759 --> 00:12:22.000 boo at once, it doesn't necessarily always sound like the word boo because you 169 00:12:22.159 --> 00:12:26.279 have one person starting and then the other and it's a lot harder with the 170 00:12:26.360 --> 00:12:33.000 inflections to do boo versus boo. Yeah. True. Yeah. So was 171 00:12:33.039 --> 00:12:37.000 this an anthropomorphic robot? Did it look human or was it just a box 172 00:12:37.559 --> 00:12:43.120 so or somewhere in between a little bit in between. I can share pictures 173 00:12:43.159 --> 00:12:46.960 with you, guys. I can send you a picture of him murder Bot. 174 00:12:46.039 --> 00:12:52.360 Yeah, so his original name had been Gorge from the Days, Such 175 00:12:52.360 --> 00:12:54.559 a good movie. But I kept on wanting to murder him, so I 176 00:12:54.600 --> 00:13:01.960 called a murder bot. So wait, you called him? So whether it's 177 00:13:01.960 --> 00:13:05.480 a heat or she or an it is or they is completely up in the 178 00:13:05.480 --> 00:13:09.279 air. I mean gore is all was also referred to as a heat. 179 00:13:09.720 --> 00:13:13.039 Well that's true. Yeah, yeah, okay, I felt that I'm telling 180 00:13:13.200 --> 00:13:16.879 the robot it. I don't know why. Something in my brain was like, 181 00:13:16.120 --> 00:13:20.919 if I'm sharing a stage with this creature, we have I have to 182 00:13:20.960 --> 00:13:28.159 add some sort of professional level of respect that I'm programmed to hate me. 183 00:13:28.879 --> 00:13:33.759 Oh so, how do we jump into IoT from from such the best IoT 184 00:13:33.919 --> 00:13:37.720 story I've ever heard? It is? I mean, everything's going to go 185 00:13:37.759 --> 00:13:45.600 downhill and boring from here. So you do, I mean you have a 186 00:13:46.519 --> 00:13:52.120 quote I'm air quoting here, real job I do. Particle was very lucky 187 00:13:52.159 --> 00:13:56.039 to let me work, or very nice. I was very lucky they let 188 00:13:56.080 --> 00:14:01.879 me work from Scotland and take a little time off to do the fringe. 189 00:14:01.480 --> 00:14:05.000 But Also, it's a whole month long. I wasn't taking a whole month, 190 00:14:05.559 --> 00:14:09.279 but can you imagine the amount of emails I would have to catch on 191 00:14:09.559 --> 00:14:11.240 at the end of the month. It's the end of the world. You 192 00:14:11.240 --> 00:14:15.559 have to clear email bankruptcy at that so you have to fake your own death 193 00:14:15.639 --> 00:14:24.080 at that point. But yes, I run the DevRel program at Particle, 194 00:14:24.559 --> 00:14:33.240 it's a wonderful company. We do connected micro controller boards. Basically, what 195 00:14:33.279 --> 00:14:39.360 that means is you got a hardware board that you can immediately connect to the 196 00:14:39.360 --> 00:14:46.399 cell signal or Wi Fi, depending on what model you got. I recalled 197 00:14:46.440 --> 00:14:50.080 Particle is Photon. Isn't that the product that was the first ever board? 198 00:14:50.120 --> 00:14:54.360 Actually mean, well, no, here's the thing, the Photon too. 199 00:15:00.840 --> 00:15:03.240 It's funny because this is the first time they've ever had a Photon or we've 200 00:15:03.240 --> 00:15:07.960 ever had a Photon two or anything with a two. But so you saw 201 00:15:09.039 --> 00:15:11.720 hardware, So I'm looking at the Photon, the Photon two, monitor one 202 00:15:11.879 --> 00:15:18.440 tracker one Wi Fi devices, cellular devices, and and then you obviously have 203 00:15:18.559 --> 00:15:24.720 developers because you're developer relations. So how do we program these things? Then? 204 00:15:24.240 --> 00:15:28.240 Are they different from any other dot net kind of platform that we would 205 00:15:28.360 --> 00:15:35.320 program yeah, so I would say the the big thing is you program them 206 00:15:35.320 --> 00:15:43.799 primarily in a C C plus plus sort of language. Officially the frameworks called 207 00:15:43.080 --> 00:15:48.720 wiring, but anyone who's used in our DW know before we'll recognize it. 208 00:15:48.080 --> 00:15:54.519 Okay, it's the way you program it is very similar to programming our DW 209 00:15:54.679 --> 00:16:02.200 knows. But you can also program it from We have a couple of ideas 210 00:16:02.360 --> 00:16:07.879 that you can use. There's the web based one and there's also my favorite, 211 00:16:07.879 --> 00:16:11.559 which is Particle Workbench, our Visual Studio code extension. Nice work in 212 00:16:11.639 --> 00:16:17.039 studio with an extension loaded in, and if you go, that's pretty much. 213 00:16:17.279 --> 00:16:19.960 You plug in. I might actually have one in my backpack, but 214 00:16:21.600 --> 00:16:25.159 you just plug it in, set it up, and go. Very easy 215 00:16:25.159 --> 00:16:27.799 setup experience. I'm actually really proud of how we read into the setup experience 216 00:16:27.879 --> 00:16:33.639 recently. You just go to setup dot Particle dot io and plug in your 217 00:16:33.679 --> 00:16:41.320 device. Everything gets set up really quickly, which doesn't sound like a big 218 00:16:41.320 --> 00:16:48.559 deal. My favorite thing about particle devices and our general goal is making it 219 00:16:48.600 --> 00:16:52.039 so things just work. Yes, so you don't have to install a million 220 00:16:52.120 --> 00:16:56.879 drivers. You don't the Battle of the Arduino. It's like, just plug 221 00:16:56.919 --> 00:17:00.840 into my qusp port please please. Oh yeah, and I love ourd ween 222 00:17:02.000 --> 00:17:06.000 devices too. But it's a battle. It can be a battle, especially 223 00:17:06.039 --> 00:17:10.680 if you're trying to do a Wi Fi connected device or and is typically what 224 00:17:10.720 --> 00:17:14.680 you do is connect just my WiFi, not plug it in. We do 225 00:17:15.160 --> 00:17:18.799 plug in my USB because it's a lot I have found that the setup process 226 00:17:18.799 --> 00:17:22.480 when you do that, it's a lot faster, a lot easier. Yeah, 227 00:17:22.200 --> 00:17:29.440 like, and we do have alternate means and setup, but I fully 228 00:17:29.519 --> 00:17:34.599 recommend just plug in, run the setup tool, and go because it's a 229 00:17:34.640 --> 00:17:41.160 lot faster. And web USB is just such a wonderful. It's interestingly how 230 00:17:41.240 --> 00:17:45.319 much better it's gotten from the old days of trying to do serial you are 231 00:17:45.400 --> 00:17:49.480 connections And so how does the rest API come into play here? Can we 232 00:17:49.599 --> 00:17:55.680 use any kind of client to program the device? Yeah, HP rest, 233 00:17:56.240 --> 00:18:00.119 Yeah you can, that's essentially yeah. Yeah, I don't have a very 234 00:18:00.160 --> 00:18:04.640 long answer for that. But so I'm bringing back to the language, right, 235 00:18:04.799 --> 00:18:07.400 if you want to write directly on the device, it's like a CC 236 00:18:07.599 --> 00:18:11.920 plus plus some hybradors, right, But you can program with the ABI in 237 00:18:12.440 --> 00:18:18.000 any language. Yeah, yeah, well maybe not fortun any language that works 238 00:18:18.000 --> 00:18:22.119 with a yeah, yeah, I guess if you really want it. So 239 00:18:22.440 --> 00:18:27.240 the programs that you're writing going to go on the device or are they? 240 00:18:27.440 --> 00:18:32.480 Are you manipulating it? How? Like? How does the programming work? 241 00:18:32.599 --> 00:18:37.279 So that highly dependence on what you're doing. So you will almost certainly be 242 00:18:37.359 --> 00:18:41.759 writing some firmware, right, But a lot of what a lot of people 243 00:18:41.799 --> 00:18:45.119 like to do is write some firmware, flash it to the device, and 244 00:18:45.200 --> 00:18:48.960 have that mostly communicate with stuff that goes on outside of the device. Yeah. 245 00:18:49.720 --> 00:18:55.480 Like I'm a big compundent of using webhooks to do everything I can. 246 00:18:56.160 --> 00:19:00.119 Yeah. Sure, So while you would be pushing that to it communicating with 247 00:19:00.839 --> 00:19:07.960 let's say, I don't know, I just always use IoT devices to control 248 00:19:07.039 --> 00:19:11.440 my LIFs because that is the The blinking LED is a definitive Hello World. 249 00:19:12.519 --> 00:19:18.079 It is, you've got it. I always like blinking the LED in the 250 00:19:18.079 --> 00:19:26.559 Morse code for Hello World. That's legit. I remember getting a basic You 251 00:19:26.599 --> 00:19:30.759 were talking about basic stamp. This is years of years ago, twenty years 252 00:19:30.759 --> 00:19:34.759 ago maybe, and I said, what's that and you said, oh, 253 00:19:36.119 --> 00:19:42.160 I'm sorry, you're about to go down a rabbit. I bought a thing 254 00:19:42.240 --> 00:19:48.240 to you know. It was like one of the first little device programmers, 255 00:19:48.440 --> 00:19:52.200 and you're right, they go down the rabbit hole and you have to apologize 256 00:19:52.200 --> 00:19:56.680 for it. You apologize, have stolen hundreds of hours of your life just 257 00:19:56.720 --> 00:20:00.680 by saying these words, if the simultaneous a apology and a you're welcome, 258 00:20:02.519 --> 00:20:08.759 welcome to a new obsession because you didn't have enough. Oh yeah, why 259 00:20:10.119 --> 00:20:17.480 buy an iote device when you can make wise? I haven't burned my fingers 260 00:20:17.559 --> 00:20:22.039 enough lately. Always the problem with these products and the inevitably like once you 261 00:20:22.079 --> 00:20:25.440 get past the blinking ladies, like what am I doing here? What do 262 00:20:25.559 --> 00:20:29.640 I need this for? Don't you need it for? And that's the problem. 263 00:20:29.680 --> 00:20:33.680 It's like it's almost too much like you almost you don't have enough lines 264 00:20:33.759 --> 00:20:37.039 around it. Like what did I do with the basic stamp back in the 265 00:20:37.119 --> 00:20:41.079 day. I wired it to a hydraulic actuator on my server closet because as 266 00:20:41.079 --> 00:20:47.880 a server closet and b the air conditioner would fail. Yeah, you have 267 00:20:47.880 --> 00:20:49.000 to put a button pusher on it, right, so the air when the 268 00:20:49.160 --> 00:20:53.559 when the temperature would get above eighty fahrenheit, you know, thirty twenty seven 269 00:20:53.599 --> 00:20:59.079 degrees centigrade, that that little gizmo would just activate and push those doors open, 270 00:21:00.079 --> 00:21:03.240 right, and and the basic stamp for a couple of bucks was enough 271 00:21:03.359 --> 00:21:07.720 logic to be able to set those rules and then send a notice sake yeah 272 00:21:07.279 --> 00:21:11.799 over temperature, keep the keep the machines from melting down. One of the 273 00:21:11.839 --> 00:21:17.319 first IoT device projects that the after the next guys and I did when we 274 00:21:17.359 --> 00:21:25.880 got together was a phartometer on base on a Raspberry Pi with a methane detector. 275 00:21:26.119 --> 00:21:30.759 Oh no, And you basically would just put it on a table and 276 00:21:30.200 --> 00:21:37.920 would detect the smell of mething before anybody's nose. But the window. Yeah, 277 00:21:37.960 --> 00:21:41.279 we thought that was just great. I think you weren't wearing in the 278 00:21:41.359 --> 00:21:48.480 right place. Don't bring nothing to a harm there you go. Yeah, 279 00:21:48.279 --> 00:21:52.839 but always going on. But you know, at least Richard's example was practical. 280 00:21:52.240 --> 00:21:56.319 I had thought of, like when you set a hydraulic actuator. I 281 00:21:56.400 --> 00:22:00.160 thought of something that I could stick with velcro over the coffee maker button, 282 00:22:00.440 --> 00:22:04.759 right, and so I could actually turn on my coffee maker and start the 283 00:22:04.799 --> 00:22:07.599 coffee process when I woke up in the morning, so by the time about 284 00:22:07.680 --> 00:22:11.359 the shower, I don't have to go downstairs turning on to back up. 285 00:22:11.160 --> 00:22:14.160 And you don'tn't use your times. You never know when you're waking up. 286 00:22:14.240 --> 00:22:18.039 Don't never know when you're waking up exactly. Well, that's actually something like 287 00:22:18.079 --> 00:22:22.079 that is one of the common gateway projects that I like to call to make 288 00:22:22.119 --> 00:22:32.880 it like meth le different. Yes, the common the common gateway drug math 289 00:22:36.000 --> 00:22:42.720 start with then move on to the hard stuff like CBD. I like you 290 00:22:42.720 --> 00:22:48.559 you can stay here. I just find it good. I was worried. 291 00:22:48.079 --> 00:22:52.640 Please don't kick me off to the rain. Oh, there are really common 292 00:22:52.680 --> 00:22:57.920 gate gateway projects though, like my one of my favorites that I see over 293 00:22:57.960 --> 00:23:02.400 and over again, and it's my favorite because of how surprising it is. 294 00:23:02.640 --> 00:23:06.279 But when you think about it, it's not too surprising. One thing that 295 00:23:06.440 --> 00:23:11.400 tends one of the most common things that will get people into making hardware is 296 00:23:11.480 --> 00:23:19.759 getting chickens, right deal. It's a huge deal. Chicken based projects are 297 00:23:21.039 --> 00:23:26.880 huge coop monitoring light projects because apparently and I do not have chickens, by 298 00:23:26.920 --> 00:23:33.480 the way, but I've learned a lot about chickens by reading these chicken projects 299 00:23:33.839 --> 00:23:38.519 and figuring out why they need to exist. Like apparently chickens lace you are 300 00:23:38.559 --> 00:23:42.000 eggs in the winter, And part of that is due to their sun exposure 301 00:23:42.000 --> 00:23:49.759 and temperature exposure. So one really cool project I've seen is controlling heat lamps 302 00:23:49.799 --> 00:23:59.559 in the chicken coop by checking local weather data and adjusting for a daily or 303 00:24:00.400 --> 00:24:03.839 coop monitorings. Another big one open and closing the gates so when they when 304 00:24:04.000 --> 00:24:07.480 they allowed out in the yard when, and you know, sort of safety 305 00:24:07.519 --> 00:24:11.359 around all of that. So certainly temperature monitory things like that. There was 306 00:24:11.359 --> 00:24:14.680 the one of the top twitch channels way in the beginning was a chicken coop 307 00:24:14.680 --> 00:24:17.839 where you could spend twenty five cents feed the chickens. Yea, we had 308 00:24:17.839 --> 00:24:21.200 a little automation to drop a little feed out right. That's great. How 309 00:24:21.279 --> 00:24:25.799 fun is that? So one of the another one of our projects that have 310 00:24:25.920 --> 00:24:30.000 been max This is a real company that we did some work for and Scott 311 00:24:30.039 --> 00:24:37.000 Ratley did the work actually made was for this company that had lab mice and 312 00:24:37.279 --> 00:24:41.519 in experiments and stuff, and they had warehouse with all sorts of lab nice 313 00:24:41.599 --> 00:24:45.480 and they wanted to detect when there was something going on with a nice. 314 00:24:45.559 --> 00:24:49.680 So they had all sorts of sensors like ammonias sensors and other other things that 315 00:24:49.720 --> 00:24:53.799 they could detect chemicals that they could detect in the air that would say, 316 00:24:53.799 --> 00:24:57.240 oh, there's something wrong with nice two hundred and thirty two hundred and thirty 317 00:24:57.240 --> 00:25:00.400 four. We can go and look at them and see if they need to 318 00:25:00.839 --> 00:25:04.599 you know, they've expired or they you know, they're sick or something like 319 00:25:04.640 --> 00:25:08.759 that. Eating each other. Yeah, that is an application. I haven't 320 00:25:08.839 --> 00:25:14.559 bought them. And I grew up around lab mice. Okay, Yeah, 321 00:25:14.640 --> 00:25:18.359 I spent a lot of a weird amount of my childhood, which I suppose 322 00:25:18.400 --> 00:25:22.079 it's any amount of my childhood hanging out at a pharmaceutical testing lab. You 323 00:25:22.079 --> 00:25:30.039 know, you do no any day I didn't have They let me hang out 324 00:25:30.039 --> 00:25:33.680 there. I would like to point out that nobody in my family worked there. 325 00:25:34.400 --> 00:25:38.799 My soccer coach did, and she thought it was fun having me there. 326 00:25:40.160 --> 00:25:42.359 Her kids also hung out. There's a place to hang out. Yeah, 327 00:25:42.359 --> 00:25:48.079 we had a we had a club in a storage and a lot. 328 00:25:48.480 --> 00:25:52.039 But yeah, lab mice. Yeah, it's Euthanasian day. Let's go. 329 00:25:56.079 --> 00:26:00.039 We weren't allowed in the killing room. That's bring your children to a place. 330 00:26:00.039 --> 00:26:04.359 It has a killing room. There was you know, it was the 331 00:26:04.519 --> 00:26:10.519 strangest, most wonderful place because it wasn't just a pharmaceutical testing lab. Because 332 00:26:11.200 --> 00:26:15.119 the dad, my friend Dabby's dad, he also was a carpenter and he 333 00:26:15.160 --> 00:26:19.640 had his carpentery workshop there, and there was a vegetable garden up front and 334 00:26:19.680 --> 00:26:25.359 a little playground in the courtyard shop and you can just never go home. 335 00:26:25.559 --> 00:26:29.599 This this is the ideal daycare. It's like, I have sharp tools and 336 00:26:29.680 --> 00:26:33.279 rodents, what more do you need? I asked my mom about this recently 337 00:26:34.519 --> 00:26:40.720 in hindsight as an adult. I asked her about it because I mentioned this 338 00:26:40.960 --> 00:26:44.960 in my comedy show and my parents came to see it once, So that 339 00:26:45.039 --> 00:26:49.319 meant that I got to interrogate them in front of an audience, because people 340 00:26:49.880 --> 00:26:55.160 like that's if you see that story on stage at a comedy show, you 341 00:26:55.200 --> 00:26:57.359 will question it. Oh yeah, because does not seem real. It does 342 00:26:57.400 --> 00:27:02.720 not seem real. So I asked my mom and her answer was, who 343 00:27:02.759 --> 00:27:10.400 am I to turn down free childcare? Yeah, it's like some of us 344 00:27:10.799 --> 00:27:14.440 Sesame Street. You liked it there, right, you were learning things. 345 00:27:14.799 --> 00:27:21.759 They have a lot of bookcases with classic novels because the the lady who ran 346 00:27:21.799 --> 00:27:26.759 the ran the labrad her kids grew up there. So there were shelves of 347 00:27:26.400 --> 00:27:33.279 board games and books and if you could make a really great sport in a 348 00:27:33.319 --> 00:27:37.799 conference table. Yeah, nice is everything you need. And I'm going to 349 00:27:37.880 --> 00:27:45.599 interrupt for one moment, this very important message and we're back. Okay. 350 00:27:45.640 --> 00:27:51.160 Well that's Carl Franklin with our friend Colleen Livin and laughing our butts off. 351 00:27:51.200 --> 00:27:53.400 The rain has subsided none of us been a good day. It's a good 352 00:27:53.480 --> 00:27:57.640 day. And I wanted to ask you about some of these other devices like 353 00:27:57.759 --> 00:28:04.480 Monitor one of field ready and customizable gateway for monitoring industrial equipment. What makes 354 00:28:04.640 --> 00:28:08.359 this is a more specialized in terms of the sensors you can put on it 355 00:28:08.359 --> 00:28:12.599 than folt Onto. So not necessarily you can technically put a lot of the 356 00:28:12.640 --> 00:28:17.480 same sensors on here. But the difference from Monitor one is we noticed that 357 00:28:17.559 --> 00:28:22.359 a lot of companies were making basically the same thing and it wasn't part of 358 00:28:22.359 --> 00:28:26.039 their product. They weren't selling it or anything. What they were doing was 359 00:28:26.119 --> 00:28:32.640 making this sort of monitoring system because that's what you need. That's what they 360 00:28:32.640 --> 00:28:36.000 needed, So we figured why not make their lives a little bit easier. 361 00:28:36.279 --> 00:28:38.960 Waterproofing is a pain in the butt, Like I've done a bunch myself right 362 00:28:40.039 --> 00:28:44.960 having to buy the bulkheads and an IP sixty seven seal, and like it's 363 00:28:45.000 --> 00:28:48.039 a nuisance to make a proper protective case. It's such a pain you have, 364 00:28:48.720 --> 00:28:53.720 like you have to usually redo it three or four times. And I 365 00:28:53.759 --> 00:29:00.240 will say there are some great templates on the particle community because people have done 366 00:29:00.279 --> 00:29:03.359 something like this over and over. But if you don't want to do it 367 00:29:03.400 --> 00:29:07.519 over and over, and you just want something that works right out of the 368 00:29:07.519 --> 00:29:11.160 box, does what you need to and it's also customizable for your specific needs. 369 00:29:11.240 --> 00:29:15.680 Those subtle things like is this not got enough heat dispersion in it? 370 00:29:15.720 --> 00:29:18.640 Like put this board in here running it at full more twenty four hours a 371 00:29:18.720 --> 00:29:22.119 day. Is it too hot? And monitoring is one thing that we see 372 00:29:22.119 --> 00:29:26.559 people do with our devices over and over again. Like I know, I'm 373 00:29:26.599 --> 00:29:33.200 not supposed to have favorite customers, However I have some favorites. One of 374 00:29:33.240 --> 00:29:41.160 my favorites is this guy out of Wisconsin, Jeff, who uses particle devices 375 00:29:41.599 --> 00:29:47.119 to monitor maple syrup tanks which are called by the way, which are called 376 00:29:47.160 --> 00:29:55.240 sugar bushes. And if any other particle customers are upset that they were not 377 00:29:55.319 --> 00:30:03.119 listed as one of my favorites, Jeff sent me maple syrups. So what 378 00:30:03.279 --> 00:30:06.599 I mean, what would you monitor in his syrup tank? Capture, temperature 379 00:30:06.599 --> 00:30:15.359 of humidity, yes, leak detections another another thing like for him. One 380 00:30:15.559 --> 00:30:22.759 one of the reasons he started his company was he is a Maple syrups and 381 00:30:22.839 --> 00:30:29.000 so he had a Maple Syrup pank but it was about I think a forty 382 00:30:29.000 --> 00:30:32.640 five minute drive from his house, and so he had to drive there pretty 383 00:30:32.680 --> 00:30:34.920 much daily to check up on that. Remote monitoring is this is a huge 384 00:30:34.960 --> 00:30:37.559 part of this equation and it's not this I want stuff monitored, he said, 385 00:30:37.559 --> 00:30:41.920 I'm nowhere near it when it's being one. Yeah, nowhere near like 386 00:30:41.599 --> 00:30:48.839 Field and Field kids in particular, getting something that will survive the weather. 387 00:30:48.079 --> 00:30:56.240 Yeah, oh man. One of another customer who I very much like a 388 00:30:56.279 --> 00:30:59.960 company, Oh yeah. The first company, by the way, was called 389 00:31:00.200 --> 00:31:07.559 Maple IoT. Shout out to them and their SAP spy. But another customer 390 00:31:07.559 --> 00:31:14.960 who's really done a lot of great open source work on casing is this guy 391 00:31:15.119 --> 00:31:19.119 Chip, who runs a company called c Insights. And yes, Charles McClelland, 392 00:31:21.359 --> 00:31:27.519 but he goes by Chip. He is genuinely a delight. So I 393 00:31:27.559 --> 00:31:32.720 realized whenever you say the phrase genuinely a delight. It sounds sarcastic, but 394 00:31:32.920 --> 00:31:37.480 it really isn't. He's wonderful, but he's run into an issue. So 395 00:31:37.720 --> 00:31:42.559 his company makes park monitoring systems so national and state parks can know their user 396 00:31:42.640 --> 00:31:47.519 data because you don't necessarily have a check in at the state park, and 397 00:31:47.680 --> 00:31:49.720 it's good to know like who's going on what trail, stuff like that. 398 00:31:52.079 --> 00:31:59.160 However, those devices are living outside forever. Yeah, he has had devices 399 00:31:59.200 --> 00:32:04.519 that have actually gotten struck by lightning before. I think he generally not survivable, 400 00:32:04.640 --> 00:32:07.680 like just smoking bits when you were doing you find them. He did 401 00:32:07.720 --> 00:32:12.079 say that it was still intact, but you chose not to continue using it. 402 00:32:13.119 --> 00:32:15.680 On my first album, I programmed the drum tracks myself, so we 403 00:32:15.759 --> 00:32:22.640 gave Chip Franklin album credit, and you know it was Franklin brother, Chip 404 00:32:22.680 --> 00:32:27.559 Franklin Frums. I do very much like the idea of a hardware guy named 405 00:32:27.640 --> 00:32:29.839 Chip. Yeah, that's great. It's kind of kind of the rule. 406 00:32:29.880 --> 00:32:31.839 All right. So here's a question we've when we talked about IoT in the 407 00:32:31.839 --> 00:32:36.279 past, and admittedly we haven't in a long time, because there was a 408 00:32:36.319 --> 00:32:39.799 time when it was a craze and and then it kind of died down. 409 00:32:40.400 --> 00:32:45.680 But yeah, but did it? But well it did? It did for 410 00:32:45.799 --> 00:32:49.200 us in our on our show, that's all I'm saying. Oh yeah, 411 00:32:49.720 --> 00:32:52.279 but I remember talking to guys that say, well, you want to prototype 412 00:32:52.359 --> 00:32:57.000 with something that's easy take sensors on and off. But if you're going to 413 00:32:57.079 --> 00:33:00.279 do production, you want to get the board's main facture. Yes, And 414 00:33:00.319 --> 00:33:04.759 so you, guys, I see, have an option for that. So 415 00:33:04.799 --> 00:33:07.279 you prototype with boats on two and then you have this thing called the P 416 00:33:07.480 --> 00:33:14.160 two. So what's guess that basically is the board that we would recommend for 417 00:33:14.519 --> 00:33:22.559 production. You'd get that made in or attached to a PCB and it it 418 00:33:22.599 --> 00:33:27.880 isn't something that you would need to use a bread board for for instance. 419 00:33:28.160 --> 00:33:34.720 Like it's more akin to if you open up any any piece of technology, 420 00:33:35.400 --> 00:33:38.200 it looks more like that. Yeah, but the code is all burned in. 421 00:33:38.640 --> 00:33:44.599 It's all more secure than a prototyping board, right I would actually so, 422 00:33:44.759 --> 00:33:52.720 yes, and no so particle in particular, our boards all have extremely 423 00:33:52.759 --> 00:33:57.799 good security, so you could because look, I think it's very important to 424 00:33:57.799 --> 00:34:02.039 have security for home projects as well, because a lot of our hobby board 425 00:34:02.079 --> 00:34:07.840 projects are used to control people's homes. Right, You don't want that to 426 00:34:07.840 --> 00:34:15.960 be easily hacked. Are the particle device? iOS automatically has built in security. 427 00:34:15.199 --> 00:34:20.079 A lot of the tools for security are more often used in a production 428 00:34:20.199 --> 00:34:25.280 environment, but they are very secure devices overall. So why would you want 429 00:34:25.320 --> 00:34:30.719 to get a board manufactured for you know, for retail, let's say, 430 00:34:31.320 --> 00:34:36.079 rather than having something that you can you know you have to make piecemeal or 431 00:34:36.119 --> 00:34:39.400 whatever. Oh well, because if you're in a production environment, it's a 432 00:34:39.400 --> 00:34:45.239 lot easier. It's a lot it's more compact. You can mass produce them. 433 00:34:45.320 --> 00:34:49.440 You can mass produce it. Question is how many? At what point 434 00:34:49.440 --> 00:34:51.920 does it make more since have the manufactured product, Like if I only need 435 00:34:52.039 --> 00:34:55.719 two of these things, then maybe staying on the prototype system, a little 436 00:34:55.719 --> 00:35:00.840 bit of hardwiring instead of breadboard. But it's it's got to be I'm just 437 00:35:00.840 --> 00:35:02.519 wanting to a thresher. It was like, if he doesn't just haven't made, 438 00:35:04.119 --> 00:35:06.480 I would actually go a little higher than that. So it also depends 439 00:35:06.519 --> 00:35:10.840 on your purpose sure, Like for instance, there are some people like educators. 440 00:35:10.880 --> 00:35:15.480 I'm never going to tell an educator to move to a P two over 441 00:35:15.519 --> 00:35:21.119 a photon too, because this is great for a learning environment. But if 442 00:35:21.159 --> 00:35:29.119 you're if you have already tested out your prototype and you're wanting to start manufacturing 443 00:35:29.119 --> 00:35:34.679 at scale. Yeah, I think when you make your first order of let's 444 00:35:34.719 --> 00:35:38.559 say, one hundred devices, that's around the time you should start thinking about 445 00:35:39.000 --> 00:35:44.599 moving to a P two, moving to massacred number. This is enough that 446 00:35:44.679 --> 00:35:46.480 it's like, this is just a lot, right, Like think that will 447 00:35:46.519 --> 00:35:51.280 have a lot so, but you should also have now refined your design enough 448 00:35:51.320 --> 00:35:55.199 that making it more compact, Like does it take a few iterations to actually 449 00:35:55.239 --> 00:35:58.920 get to a P two product you're happy with? Or is it going to 450 00:35:58.960 --> 00:36:01.639 be right the first time? Oh? I don't think anything's right the first 451 00:36:01.639 --> 00:36:07.519 time, and I would not. Why are you disabusing my illusions? Okay, 452 00:36:07.599 --> 00:36:14.519 that is a classic programmer fallacy. You know what I have found the 453 00:36:14.559 --> 00:36:21.760 most the programmer who is daydreaming about a project is the most optimistic person in 454 00:36:21.800 --> 00:36:25.280 the world. Nobody's happier about building hardware than someone who's never built one bare 455 00:36:25.360 --> 00:36:30.039 yeah, or somebody who has built on something in the past and now has 456 00:36:30.079 --> 00:36:37.880 selective amnesia. Yeah, that time. But you know why I find this 457 00:36:37.000 --> 00:36:40.239 time it's gonna be wonderful. We're going to have the best time ever. 458 00:36:40.360 --> 00:36:44.679 Most of the folks that had known who've had to build hardware like this end 459 00:36:44.760 --> 00:36:50.320 up moving to Hong Kong and going to Shenzen every day for three months to 460 00:36:50.360 --> 00:36:52.719 get to a product. They're happy, yeah, at least and consider it 461 00:36:52.719 --> 00:37:00.360 a win. When Particles started out, actually it was part of a hardware 462 00:37:00.360 --> 00:37:04.280 accelerator. I believe in sin and this is way before I joined Particle, 463 00:37:04.960 --> 00:37:07.559 but that is essentially what they were doing every day. I think I ran 464 00:37:07.599 --> 00:37:10.159 into them. Why I knew the name off the top of my head was 465 00:37:10.239 --> 00:37:14.039 like, no, I worked with this at one time, and I used 466 00:37:14.039 --> 00:37:17.440 to do gigs in Hong Kong and went to Shenzen and saw the insanity that 467 00:37:17.559 --> 00:37:20.760 was at place. I don't know what it's like today. I don't know 468 00:37:20.800 --> 00:37:25.280 that i'd go today. But it just was a realization that the physical, 469 00:37:25.519 --> 00:37:30.400 the physical construction of these things is way harder than your thing. There's so 470 00:37:30.440 --> 00:37:35.440 many little problems that crop up, and that's why Particle exists to make that 471 00:37:36.000 --> 00:37:40.320 a lot easier. Because a lot of the times when you're building, whether 472 00:37:40.360 --> 00:37:49.280 you're building an at home project or you're building something to scale, there are 473 00:37:49.320 --> 00:37:52.800 things that you don't think of that just start to go wrong, and so 474 00:37:53.119 --> 00:37:57.639 Particles our job is to make that a lot easier. So you can go 475 00:37:57.840 --> 00:38:01.039 from hey, I want to build this thing to oh, I just built 476 00:38:01.039 --> 00:38:07.679 its. Like when I used to be really into hackathons, back before I 477 00:38:07.760 --> 00:38:15.880 needed sleep to function, and my secret weapon at the time was actually a 478 00:38:15.920 --> 00:38:22.320 particle photon, right, because if you had a particle photon, you didn't 479 00:38:22.400 --> 00:38:31.480 have to worry about getting everything put together, getting all of the little features 480 00:38:31.480 --> 00:38:38.119 set up, because you already had a device that could connect. Within twenty 481 00:38:38.159 --> 00:38:43.599 minutes of setting it up, you could have something. We have these things 482 00:38:44.239 --> 00:38:50.880 at Particle, like Particle publish and Particle subscribe, where you could make an 483 00:38:50.920 --> 00:38:55.039 event and just listen to that event. And so in like five lines of 484 00:38:55.119 --> 00:39:00.440 code, you've got basic monitoring. John, Right, you're grabbing data off 485 00:39:00.480 --> 00:39:04.320 of a off of a sensor and being able to direct it somewhere. And 486 00:39:04.480 --> 00:39:10.000 that's extremely useful for prototyping getting something out the door really fast. But it's 487 00:39:10.039 --> 00:39:15.159 also something that scales very well. Right now, is this right? I'm 488 00:39:15.199 --> 00:39:20.960 looking at the photon two? Is it really nine dollars for this month only? 489 00:39:21.000 --> 00:39:25.119 Actually usually it's nineteen. It is on sale for the month. Wow, 490 00:39:25.239 --> 00:39:29.239 And to be clear, we're recording on August thirty first. When you 491 00:39:29.320 --> 00:39:32.320 hear this, it is an August thirty first anymore. So if people reach 492 00:39:32.360 --> 00:39:36.920 out to me, I might have a couple of coupon codes for that on 493 00:39:37.039 --> 00:39:43.840 Twitter at machine codes. But you aren't talking. That's not including sensors obviously, 494 00:39:43.920 --> 00:39:47.159 right, Yeah, no, but you could get some sensors pretty cheap. 495 00:39:47.559 --> 00:39:52.320 Yeah, the sensors on the expensive part the device in general is for 496 00:39:52.400 --> 00:39:59.440 the Photon two. We specifically wanted to make an affordable device that gets people 497 00:40:00.119 --> 00:40:05.000 excited about building stuff, right, And here's an edge mL kit machine learning 498 00:40:05.480 --> 00:40:13.599 yes two for sixty bucks. Yes, So we partnered up with edge Impulse 499 00:40:14.239 --> 00:40:21.719 Machine Learning to build a kit that uses the edge Impulse particle library basically makes 500 00:40:21.760 --> 00:40:27.920 it so your Photon two can run classifications and stuff on it. Because the 501 00:40:27.960 --> 00:40:32.840 Photon two and my memory is a little shot today, but so I'm not 502 00:40:32.880 --> 00:40:37.880 going to quote exact numbers, but the Photon two has amazing memory. It 503 00:40:37.920 --> 00:40:45.000 has this very powerful capability, so you can actually run this AI software on 504 00:40:45.039 --> 00:40:46.840 it. So, for instance, one of my favorite we have, We've 505 00:40:46.880 --> 00:40:52.400 got a couple example projects, and one that I find very delightful is a 506 00:40:52.440 --> 00:40:59.199 project called more Muted where you can This by the way, only works if 507 00:40:59.320 --> 00:41:02.119 you put it on your own device device, because we're not going to have 508 00:41:02.239 --> 00:41:07.719 other people controlling them. Wrong. Yeah, but it listens for the term 509 00:41:08.159 --> 00:41:15.679 you're muted to be sad. If it is sad, then it automatically on 510 00:41:15.880 --> 00:41:17.559 mute to you. If you are muted, it does nothing if you're not 511 00:41:17.639 --> 00:41:24.239 muted. Yeah, that's the classic you know, COVID era problem of zoom 512 00:41:24.320 --> 00:41:31.119 right now, it's right here. So it is really good. If you've 513 00:41:31.159 --> 00:41:35.840 just been asked a question, you can't think of an answair just like mullowed 514 00:41:35.880 --> 00:41:38.880 a couple of words for a minute, and then you're like blah blah, 515 00:41:38.920 --> 00:41:44.119 and then by the time you actually have to un mute yourself, you've thought 516 00:41:44.119 --> 00:41:46.480 of things. It's terrible, by the way, if anyone on your team 517 00:41:46.559 --> 00:41:51.280 knows how to read lips right, insert that video kid in. But then 518 00:41:51.360 --> 00:41:54.159 you know we're basically describing toppers comment. It's like, here's the bits to 519 00:41:54.239 --> 00:41:58.480 make the thing you were talking about. I mean, obviously this is not 520 00:41:58.519 --> 00:42:06.800 going to run GPT three interface with it to an extent, Like, but 521 00:42:07.079 --> 00:42:10.159 you're talking about maybe an image recognizer or an expression recognizer, like this is 522 00:42:10.159 --> 00:42:14.800 reasonable to run. It have so many products here, it's not just the 523 00:42:14.800 --> 00:42:20.000 three that I listed off. Oh, like the Wi Fi antennas and U 524 00:42:21.400 --> 00:42:27.880 NFC antennas. Yeah. Oh there's a fruit feather wings. Yeah, so 525 00:42:27.920 --> 00:42:32.079 that's another thing. It's compatible with eight of fruits feather wings, so that 526 00:42:32.760 --> 00:42:38.039 makes it even easier to start out. A feather wing is basically a shield 527 00:42:38.119 --> 00:42:43.440 that you can attach to your device that already has some stuff in it to 528 00:42:43.480 --> 00:42:46.079 get you started, like for interfacing more yeah, for interfacing. So for 529 00:42:46.119 --> 00:42:51.400 instance, it could have a bunch of sensors already tottered on, and then 530 00:42:51.440 --> 00:42:55.039 you can just go build your project immediately. And there are some really cool 531 00:42:55.079 --> 00:43:04.039 feather wings out there. I have. I have so many of them because 532 00:43:04.039 --> 00:43:09.480 when I when I first started the business, well when I first started a 533 00:43:09.960 --> 00:43:17.119 particle, we all get an education stipend and they told me I was allowed 534 00:43:17.159 --> 00:43:22.519 to use it on parts if I wanted to. So heta fruit got the 535 00:43:22.559 --> 00:43:28.239 majority of my education stipends. Do I have to click plus one on every 536 00:43:28.239 --> 00:43:35.320 one of these things? Can you just send me please? Yes? The 537 00:43:35.559 --> 00:43:39.960 skull shield, the skull feather skull shaped feather wing is very vital to my 538 00:43:40.079 --> 00:43:49.320 development has a programmer training, and you know what. The big problem with 539 00:43:49.480 --> 00:43:52.559 that, by the way, and the problem that I see with so many 540 00:43:52.599 --> 00:43:59.320 makers that you were kind of preferring to earlier is paralysis by the sheer amount 541 00:43:59.599 --> 00:44:04.719 of options out there. So like one thing that I've seen happen over and 542 00:44:04.719 --> 00:44:09.039 over again that I'm trying to combat by making cool projects available, but is 543 00:44:09.159 --> 00:44:14.519 getting a device thinking well, I'm going to make something cool with it, 544 00:44:14.960 --> 00:44:17.119 and then thinking, oh, there are too many cool things out there, 545 00:44:17.679 --> 00:44:22.440 how can I do this? Picking one is the I know people say naming 546 00:44:22.519 --> 00:44:28.400 is the hardest part of computer science, but picking something's even harder. Yeah, 547 00:44:28.719 --> 00:44:30.880 so what's next for you? What's in your inbox after you leave here? 548 00:44:31.119 --> 00:44:34.639 Well, I've just been an Edin refringe for a month and then came 549 00:44:34.679 --> 00:44:36.840 straight here, So I think I'm going to go home and sleep for a 550 00:44:36.840 --> 00:44:42.280 little bit. But after that, I've got a couple other conferences coming out, 551 00:44:42.719 --> 00:44:47.119 and I'm absolutely stoked. Particle is sponsoring this year is Bay Area Major 552 00:44:47.239 --> 00:44:53.480 Fair, and we have got some pretty cool stuff in flight for for that, 553 00:44:53.920 --> 00:45:00.480 We've got a very fun booth coming along and some interactive projects. Where's 554 00:45:00.519 --> 00:45:04.280 the maker fair. It's in the Bay Area. Okay, so this year 555 00:45:04.519 --> 00:45:07.119 bay Area it is odd. I usually one of the convention centers. No, 556 00:45:07.440 --> 00:45:15.079 this year it's on an island, and I'm island. I think that's 557 00:45:15.079 --> 00:45:21.000 across from San Francisco. Yes, you've gotta. I think we're flat. 558 00:45:21.039 --> 00:45:24.000 We're all sign them to the Oakland Airport and going there. It looks beautiful 559 00:45:24.639 --> 00:45:31.679 and I haven't been to a big Maker event since pre Covide four years. 560 00:45:31.920 --> 00:45:38.400 It's it's so exciting. The it's funny, the whole team right now. 561 00:45:38.800 --> 00:45:45.559 We're like giddy little kids, excitedly talking about it, like we can do 562 00:45:45.599 --> 00:45:49.039 this, we can do that. Do you think this? These people are 563 00:45:49.039 --> 00:45:52.599 going to have that booth. Uh, we're making a little carnival game. 564 00:45:52.039 --> 00:45:55.280 I'm just wondering. You know, folks went head down for a few years. 565 00:45:55.400 --> 00:45:58.719 I wonder what they're going to come out with. What do they bring 566 00:45:58.760 --> 00:46:01.920 into the fair that you might surprise us? All, Well, that's actually 567 00:46:01.920 --> 00:46:08.320 a really interesting thing too. Is Mare Island there? Okay? There? 568 00:46:08.800 --> 00:46:13.480 I don't know why I thought. I think I know someone who lives on 569 00:46:13.519 --> 00:46:20.039 the other island and they were talking about it. But I it's very interesting 570 00:46:20.079 --> 00:46:24.039 to me how much makerdom has changed in the past few years, because when 571 00:46:24.119 --> 00:46:30.239 particles started and when I first started getting interested in maker stuff, it was 572 00:46:30.400 --> 00:46:37.679 much more in person like. Maker spaces were everywhere. Now they've kind of 573 00:46:37.679 --> 00:46:39.079 gone away a lot. You could go to a maker fair and see a 574 00:46:39.119 --> 00:46:43.960 lot. There are still some amazing maker spaces. But what I found is 575 00:46:45.039 --> 00:46:50.239 since a lot of these tools are getting cheaper yea, and people were stuck 576 00:46:50.280 --> 00:46:54.719 at home, be hard pressed to find someone who doesn't have a three D 577 00:46:54.800 --> 00:47:00.280 printer out of I got a three D printer years before I got a two 578 00:47:00.360 --> 00:47:05.360 D printer, like I only just purchased a two D printer a couple of 579 00:47:05.400 --> 00:47:07.199 months ago. It's when you mix the two up and you actually print a 580 00:47:07.239 --> 00:47:14.119 word document in plastics. I know, it's very wasteful. The other I 581 00:47:14.159 --> 00:47:17.800 got into the routine, there's a couple of great mill spots, these digital 582 00:47:17.880 --> 00:47:21.760 mills, so I would just send my files to them and they'd send it 583 00:47:21.800 --> 00:47:25.719 back to the back the objects and often in a single day turnaround, so 584 00:47:25.800 --> 00:47:30.599 you could experiment to your heart's content. Really, it's a little more expensive 585 00:47:30.599 --> 00:47:35.760 than just having the machine yourself. I also appreciate, like having having a 586 00:47:35.880 --> 00:47:39.639 pla printer yourself, but then sending it out for a different plastic or a 587 00:47:39.719 --> 00:47:45.119 mixed plastic or even I've had one minute rendered in centered toluminum or even resin. 588 00:47:45.519 --> 00:47:50.360 Like, I am not going to have a resin printer where I live 589 00:47:50.480 --> 00:47:54.320 because I have asthma and they're a bit spilling. The fumes are bad for 590 00:47:54.360 --> 00:47:58.400 your lungs. Yeah, you need a build, you need a vent I'd 591 00:47:58.480 --> 00:48:04.360 like whoever use as a resin printer to have very good ventilation. Ventilation. 592 00:48:06.280 --> 00:48:08.760 It's not a bad idea. It's not a bad idea. And masking up 593 00:48:08.840 --> 00:48:14.480 is always good when you're doing anything that require that involves a lot of fumes. 594 00:48:14.480 --> 00:48:16.920 So you're talking about the range, how how far did you go down 595 00:48:16.960 --> 00:48:20.679 the maker path? Right? So, when you have a room that has 596 00:48:20.719 --> 00:48:23.480 a mask requirement on the outside, you've gone a certain path distance down the 597 00:48:23.480 --> 00:48:28.960 path. See I'm very excited because I've been living in apartments for a while, 598 00:48:29.440 --> 00:48:32.320 but I just bought my place for the first time with my partner, 599 00:48:32.360 --> 00:48:38.719 and that means I get to have a room with pegboards on the wall. 600 00:48:38.719 --> 00:48:42.719 I get a pegboard room. So you need you need a hood fan right 601 00:48:42.760 --> 00:48:51.320 away. No, we've agreed that the anything that requires venting will happen in 602 00:48:51.639 --> 00:48:55.920 the garage because we're lucky enough to have a garage. And also my pegboard 603 00:48:57.000 --> 00:49:00.280 room is right next to the kitchen, so we're not mixing those fear, 604 00:49:00.480 --> 00:49:06.159 that's not a good combination. Why does the raman smell like resin? Did 605 00:49:06.199 --> 00:49:12.079 I accidentally put plastic in my tea? Again? You don't have to, 606 00:49:12.239 --> 00:49:17.400 There was already plastic there. Micro plastics off. This is a hurt. 607 00:49:17.679 --> 00:49:21.840 Thank you, Thank you so much for having me fun to geeked out and 608 00:49:22.000 --> 00:49:24.480 talking. It looks like some great products you out here. Yeah, like 609 00:49:24.519 --> 00:49:30.320 the basic stamps. There goes hundreds of hours, but joy flow, isn't 610 00:49:30.360 --> 00:49:34.800 it so much fun? Well? Thanks again, thank you so much for 611 00:49:34.880 --> 00:50:00.360 having me. Welcome and we'll see you next time on dot net rocks. 612 00:50:00.639 --> 00:50:06.280 Dot net rocks is brought to you by Franklin's Net and produced by Pop Studios, 613 00:50:06.679 --> 00:50:10.599 a full service audio, video and post production facility located physically in New 614 00:50:10.599 --> 00:50:16.599 London, Connecticut, and of course in the cloud online at pwop dot com. 615 00:50:16.800 --> 00:50:22.280 Visit our website at dt n et r ocks dot com for RSS feeds, 616 00:50:22.480 --> 00:50:27.719 downloads, mobile apps, comments, and access to the full archives. 617 00:50:27.800 --> 00:50:30.800 Going back to show number one, recorded in September two thousand and two, 618 00:50:31.320 --> 00:50:35.480 and make sure you check out our sponsors. They keep us in business. 619 00:50:35.960 --> 00:50:39.599 Now go write some code, see you next time. We got the