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You were listening to Carrie Letz's Financial
Survival Network, where you get valuable information

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gift Financial Survival Network now more than ever,

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and welcome. This is Financial Survival
Network. I'm your host, Carrie

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Leuts. We have a very special
guest for you today. The last time

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I had him on the show was
eleven years ago. He had a best

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selling book that's been translated into thirty
two languages around the globe. The name

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is Joe Navarro, Joe former FBI
agent. That was quite a career in

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and of itself, but it looks
like your career as an author, as

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a motivational speaker, as a train
as far eclipsed what was an extraordinary career

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in the FBI. The book that
I first met you on it was your

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first book back in two twelve,
was what everybody is saying. I want

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to say personally that thank you for
it. It has served me, or

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the ten ninety nine that I paid
for it, I believe I've gotten returns

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in the many, many thousands in
interviews on my podcast, in dealing with

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company CEOs and officials, thussing out
what they're really saying rather than what I

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hear them saying. So that was
great. And now the latest book you

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did out a while ago, be
Exceptional master the five traits that set extraordinary

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people apart. So thank you for
coming on the show. Your first trait

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is self mastery and you define that. What does that mean? Yeah,

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and carry. It's good to see
you again. I've always enjoyed the questions

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that you ask. I think you
have one of the finest shows programs out

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there because you ask good questions.
Mastery of self. You know, when

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I was in the Beer I did
thousands of interviews. In fact, it's

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somewhere it's around thirteen thousand interviews.
And it's too easy always to focus on

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the negative things. And so I
look back on those interviews and people I've

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met over the years, and I
looked at, well, what were the

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positive attributes. And one of the
things that I found was that exceptional individuals

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really have mastery over themselves. They
had the capacity to fulfill obligations, they

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had the ability to focus on what
they need to focus on. They are

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conscientious, and they had the ability
to moderate their emotions so that they're not

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not out of control. And of
course, uh, you know, within

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reason, Um, they don't do
things that get him in trouble with drugs

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or alcohol or or the law and
so forth. And just looking back throughout

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history and you think, well,
what would be an example in history?

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And you look at Leonardo da Vinci, and you think, oh, the

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most valuable painting in the world was
painted by his man, by this man,

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but he had no mastery over himself. In fact, he was looking

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anywhere from eight to eleven lawsuits during
his life for failure to complete jobs that

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he had been paid for, what
we call that felony. And so I

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was looking at that and sometimes because
of you know who they are, we

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think, oh they were exceptional,
no doubt, nobody painted like he did.

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But the man did not have mastery
over his life. In fact,

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he was always on the run because
someone was always after him. And I

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think this is something that you know, you and I were talking earlier,

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that introspection, being able to look
at our lives, being honest with ourselves,

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because that is so hard to be
honest and say, you know what,

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I don't do this very well,
or I'm failing here, or you

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know, I'm going from my thirties
to my forties, and am I still

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the same person? Am I not
changed? I think that honesty has to

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to kick in. And I think
exceptional individuals, you know, harness everything

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that they can, even if it's
not perfect, but they have and they

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exercise mastery over their own lives.
I think that's a great point. Two

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things come to mind. Number one
is there's a book by a guy named

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Scott Adams talking about failing your way
to success. So self mastery means learning

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from failure, not being defeated by
it. Right absolutely, That's how we

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learned to use computers. You know, everyone I talked to, which which

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it was, everything from farmers to
day laborers to physicians, they took whatever

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circumstances they had and whatever failure they
had, and they said, failure is

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not going to define me. What's
going to define me? They didn't put

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it this way, but I discerned
this from them. What's going to define

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me is what I do each day
in furtherance of where I want to go

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and what I want to be.
A young, young man I talked to.

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He said he was so poor that
everything they read, or he and

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his siblings read, they got from
garbage cans. And you know, you

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could sit there and and take pity
on that, and they said, please

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don't. I got a lot of
reading done. People throw up a lot

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of stuff. He was defining his
life by where he was headed. He

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knew he had to be to educate
himself, and so he created the architecture,

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which a lot of people don't do. They expect they outsource everything.

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Oh, school teach me everything I
need to know. No it won't.

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One book will not teach you everything
you need to know. They apprentice themselves.

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They create an apprenticeship for themselves.
I was talking to this young man,

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and he says, I scavenged for
books. I asked people for books,

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any book. And he created his
own learning program. And and I

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think that's what sets extraordinary people apart. That is mastery of self. What

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we often see is people say,
well, I'm overwhelmed by life and everything

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that has gone against me. And
and I listen, I understand. My

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My family was poor. We live
my mother lived on tips, people living

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leaving fifteen cents on the table.
I understand poverty, but it's what you

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do with that and and the concept
of or the construct of I don't care

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what life presents. I'm going to
go the other way. I'm going to

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keep create the architecture to go in
the other direction. And that's what really

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sets exceptional people apart. All right. So I remember a former Speaker of

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the House, John Bayner, said, I have to deal with every son

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of a bitch who walks through the
door, whether I like them or not,

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whether I want what he wants or
not. I got to deal with

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them. And isn't that really an
encapsulation, a summation of life. You've

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got to deal with these people,
A lot of them. You don't like,

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a lot of them. You like, Hey, you're in the federal

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bureaucracy. There's superiors who you just
want to punch out because they just really

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But then you realize, I have
to make this work. I can't just

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act out on emotion. I've got
to communicate, which is communicate, build

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a bridge and get to where take
that bridge where I want to go.

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But isn't that like the most difficult
thing when you're dealing with people, A

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lot of them. Person we seem
to be in a society dominated by personality

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disorders, and we got to deal
with these people on our day to day

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life. What can you tell us
how we do this more effectively? Joe?

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Yeah, And you bring up a
great point. You know what,

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when four percent of the population is
antisocial, at least one percent is psychopath

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and anywhere from to the eight percent
of certain occupations are just filled with the

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narcissistic personality, including as you say, in politics, you never know what's

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going to come through the door.
But I can tell you this, if

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you don't have mastery over yourself,
then whatever comes through that door, you're

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not gonna be able to deal with
it. Because the easiest thing for humans

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to do is go emotional, and
that's what often happens. Hey, how

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did this get out of control?
Well, somebody had to be the adult

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in the room. Somebody had to
control their emotions, and someone didn't.

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And that is a very difficult thing
to get across if you don't begin to

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practice that at an early age.
If you grow up with the belief system

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that if they're angry, then I
have to be angry, otherwise I'm perceived

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as weak. You're you're going to
have problems all your life, because the

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most exceptional people that I dealt with
learn to observe that things we're getting out

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of control, or that this person
has problems, or they come in with

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emotional luggage, as I'm sure speaker
Baner faced all the time. And the

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question is how do we move forward? Because you know there are many ways

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to de escalate. You can do
it with distance. You can do it

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by angling your body so that you're
not as intense in somebody's space, by

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lowering your voice, speaking with cadence, tilting your head. These things de

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escalate and it's up to you.
And you said, and I do these

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things all the time. I don't
see it as weakness. In fact,

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I see it as power because by
me being in control of my nonverbals,

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including my voice, I'm actually in
a way controlling them because I can literally

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see them calming down. How can
I help you? First of all,

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what is your name? All right? I have a seat? You know

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all the things that you learn in
what everybody is saying, and be exceptional.

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It's about being able to observe these
things and then using the mastery over

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yourself so that then you can exert
influence on others you, and you have

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to realize that this is not a
losing proposition. That by me being in

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control, I'm exercising dominance the me
in it I go emotional, it's over

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because once the emotional brain kicks in, right, this is the subcortical area

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of the brain. We have the
neo cortex, the outer area that thanks

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the executive brain, the more primitive
area, the limbic system, is all

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emotions. And if you're doing everything
there, then it's just about physicality,

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pushing your chest out, you know, breathing heavy and so forth, and

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you're you're out of control. So
the exceptional individual learns to control themselves knowing

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that by how I look at you, the angles, the distance, the

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breathing, I can actually begin to
get you to change. That's that's not

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just influence, that's power. Sure, And it makes me think about the

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media because the media in general,
they're just pot stirs. They want to

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shift you to that retilient emotional brain. Right then you accept information uncritically and

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you just believe whatever they tell you, because hey, when you see a

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kid in a horrible situation, it
immediately shifts you into that primitive brain emotional

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state. And then you just once
your critical mind shuts off, they own

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you. And you know it's so
hard to do that. I've just stopped

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watching news for the most part because
I felt like I can't control it.

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You know, watching like the World
Trade Center come down still affects me very

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deeply. And I have to be
careful when I get into that emotionally charred

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state, because that's when for me, I make mistakes. When I'm in

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that state, I'll believe things that
people tell me because I want to believe

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them, not because I've proven a
true to myself right. And and that's

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part of what you said earlier.
It's at self honesty. I know the

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things that trigger me. I've been
I've been to too many autopsies. I've

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been at too many optous autopsies where
there were children. To this day,

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forty years later, I'm still affected
by those autopsies. The little broken hands

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at in the Oklahoma building, the
the the baby that was well in Youume,

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Arizona in nineteen seventy nine. I
cannot get that out of my head.

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And I have to be careful.
As you say, you have to

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be careful with emotions. This is
why mastery is so important because you know,

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I tell people, I give people
the example, think of how many

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times you've been in an argument,
and then an hour later you think of

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all the clever lines you should have
said. And the reason you didn't think

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of those clever lines in the moment
is because you want emotional. You want

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emotional. It's only when we are
cognitive, when we're in the thinking mode,

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and emotions are a side that we
think of all those Churchillian things that

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we could have said, which reminds
me of when Churchill. Somebody said to

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Churchill, Sarah, if you were
my husband, I'd feed you poison,

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and he retorted, as only he
can, and Madam, if you were

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my wife, I'd drink it.
You can only think of those things when

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your mind is clear. But yeah, we have to be careful not to

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be driven to the emotional side.
We have to be able to think through

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things, all right. So get
into a little touchy subject. So men

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and women are different, regardless what
the medium might be telling us. Now,

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they're distinct differences between the sexes,
and one is female operating system is

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based on emotion and experiential more so
than men. Not that women can't be

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rational. I'm not saying that at
all, but um in dealing in these

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interpersonal relationships, men are coming out
it often from a logical standpoint, women

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from an emotional standpoint. What I'm
saying is that that this is the crux

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of all the problems that we have
in society today. A lot of what

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you're saying there, Well, let
me answer it this way, because I've

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looked at the literature, and what
we know is this, our brains are

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not necessarily all wired the same way. We know that in women they're the

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connections between the right and the left
side of the brain. They're more inconnect

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interconnected, men less. So we're
barely now starting to understand the brain.

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We know that the times while we're
growing up, we're testosterone sort of is

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infused into us at different intervals,
and even estrogen is infused at different intervals,

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begins to shape us. There are
internal differences, and of course there

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are the external ones. I think
the biggest mistake that we make, and

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I tell this to everybody, and
it has nothing to do with whether you're

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a man or a woman, It
is the failure to understand or the failure

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to think that you talk to everybody
the same way. And that everybody responds

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should respond the same way. And
I wish universities on a minimum and schools

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maximum would begin to teach that,
just as you and I carry find our

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own way of communicating with each other, and of for instance, something as

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simple as turn yielding our agreement behaviors, realize that every single person on this

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planet we should address differently because we
all. Some people think very fast,

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some people are slower, Some people
are more pensive. Some people are emotional.

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We may not know why they're emotional
at normoust we sit there in judgment

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over that. The fact of the
matter is, and I been. I

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was in a room with about seventy
six other FBI agents and we had just

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come back from the Murrah building and
on the wall on the wall were little

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hands that had been drawn by local
children in and every single man that was

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there was in tears. So I
don't want to hear about well, some

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people are more emotional than others.
Let me tell you something. If it's

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emotional enough, right, unless you're
a psychopath, you're gonna cry. All

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these men that were there, I
don't remember any women on that particular day,

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although there were many there. We
were all crying just because of the

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imagery. What's important is, because
I may be in a position to be

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working both with both men and women. Is what are the specific needs,

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wants, desires and preferences of each
individual when I hold when I hold my

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training and we do training around the
world. In fact, we've got one

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coming up in Amsterdam in June.
I say, hey, what do we

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use no verbals for. It's not
the detect deception. It's to assess individuals

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for their needs, their wants,
their desires, their preferences. And if

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you get this one right, you're
gonna win. Their fears. What do

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they fear you? As an investor, what do you fear I'm going to

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get the losing money losing money right? We don't say I fear it.

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You know, I'm doing the due
diligence because I don't want that to happen.

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But the brain works on fear.
And if you can do that for

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every person, if you can figure
out what are their preferences for talking to

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each other, I think we're better
ahead. I think to a certain extent,

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the media and society wants to park
us into these the silos of men,

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women alternets. This boy scouts this. No, the Mormons are over

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here, and you know it's like
stop, stop, we're one species,

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but it but we need to be
individuated because we all have references. Yeah,

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well, I couldn't agree more.
It's these preprogrammed responses where you know,

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you shoot the messenger without to the
message, you immediately discount the message

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because you don't like the messenger.
And when you were talking before, you

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get into an argument, and then
an hour later you realize you were wrong

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and why didn't I it was wrong
then? And the emotions when they kick

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in, they're so powerful and they're
always there right, just waiting to come

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to the surface. Yeah. Yeah, it's um and and that's part of

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it. And you know, there's
so much good advice out there about dealing

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with emotions and so forth. And
you know, even programs like yours,

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where you know, there's a lot
of things I don't know about business,

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but you can create your own learning
experience so much easier now than in the

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sixties and the seventies and in the
eighties. So really there's no excuse.

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I mean you you you've had the
world class speakers on your program. Um,

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you know, I don't have time
to travel around the country to cashe

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spokes. So there really is no
excuse for not working on mastery of self.

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It really should be should be a
lifelong learner, and you're never fully

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the master of yourself. So now
lifelong occupation, if you will. And

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it's the most important one, I
think, because it's going to determine your

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success in life, your success relationships. And you know, so many times

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you say something and because you're in
that emotionally charged state and you can't take

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it back, and then the wreckage
follows. Yeah, and once it's out,

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it doesn't go back. Yeah.
So you're doing, uh, these

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boot camps on the communication. You
know, I just have a joke for

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you. You know they say that
the eighty percent of all communication is nonverbal.

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But me and my X, we
have that beat. One hundred percent

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of ours was not just stopped talking. Huh. That applies to a lot

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of lives that I know. Mary
Um. You know, over the years,

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I've been asked that question, what's
the number? What exactly is a

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number of how important body language is? I can tell you this. It

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is the principal means by which we
humans communicate. It is the best way

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that we communicate. Empathy. It
is the way that we assess for our

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mate, whether we play with them
for ten minutes or we marry them.

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We do this nonverbally. It's how
we assess for danger and safety. And

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it's certainly assists us in socializing.
So when people say, well, so,

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what percentage is that, I say, it really depends on where you're

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at. You could be staring at
a loved one and you know, and

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it's one hundred percent or maybe down
to sixty in a business meeting. But

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it's never much lower than that because
I've sat in business meetings where we were

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talking numbers and we were all kind
of reading each other the way we were

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saying the information. What our attitude
was is how confident we were. And

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you know, all of that was
nonverbal. So um, it's an important

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part of our lives. And and
and I would just caution everybody stop looking

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for deception. It's useful to look
for issues, right, look for psychological

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discomfort, as I teach in my
books, but uh, and use it

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to communicate effectively. Right. I
couldn't agree more. Hey, Joe,

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where is the best place to find
you? These days? All your books

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obviously on Amazon? That's where I
purchased them, but the West, which

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one's the best to find? Yeah, my website if you go to Joe

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Navarro dot net, everything is there. And I've got my books articles psychology

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today and uh and this wonderful event
that we're going to be doing. It's

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two days of intense training in Amsterdam. It's one of my favorite cities,

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and we really do a deep dive
into how we use nonverbals. And I

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tell folks, especially in the you
know, most of the people that I

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work with are in the financial sector. The most important thing that we can

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do is to try to understand the
other person, communicate with them effectively.

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But also is what messages are we
sending? Are we are we sending messages

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that you know, sometimes we come
across as a little too plightful, maybe

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crass, maybe narcissistic, whatever is
we have a role to play and what

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messages am I sending when I sit
there in a meeting and so forth,

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And so we explore that those those
kinds of things, because it's not just

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about reading others. Always remember everybody
else is reading you, and the question

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is what message are they getting?
Do they see you as competent, do

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they see you as with hesitation.
Do they see you equivocating? Do you

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have to bite your lip and pull
on your shirt collar to answer a simple

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question? Delays in answering a throat
clearing. I remember Bob Gates when who

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was I think for a while there
he was the CIA, then he was

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at the Pentagon, and obviously the
media would ask him questions he wasn't allowed

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to answer it. He always cleared
his throat when he was gonna have to

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bamboozle us. If you got to
clear your throat to answer a question,

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I want to ask more questions.
That's that's very clearing your throat, Yeah,

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exactly. They Well, if you've
got a question for Joe, shoot

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me an email kl at Kerry Lutz
dot com and we'll get you an answer.

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And the link to Joe's website is
in the show notes this interview.

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All the books are available on Amazon
or wherever fine books used to be sold.

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And Joe really appreciate you coming on
spending time with us, and we

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really appreciate it, and we will
talk to you again soon. That's great.

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Thank you for having me, Carrie, and let's not wait eleven more

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years. Huh. Definitely, thanks
for listening to Carry Lutz's Financial Survival Network,

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00:28:40,359 --> 00:28:45,160
your solution to today's trying times.
For the latest, go to Financial

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00:28:45,240 --> 00:28:49,839
Survival Network dot com. Financial Survival
Network now more than ever,