I'm Casey Tanner and I'm Camille Lewis, and this is safe word. Safe
word is sex therapy unhinged because instead of being a blank slate that's just here
to support you, we're telling you the details on our own sex lives,
relationships, identities, and more. This isn't sex and it's not therapy,
but we are sex therapists and what you hear today may excite you. Each
week we tackle a theme related to sex, relationships, gender, and more.
This week we're diving into the theme attachment styles. Let you know,
save Oklahoma outro knock it. Okay, Welcome to episode twenty four. I
forgot how much I missed the sound of your voice When it comes through a
loud microphone. It's sting to my soul. You would be alone in that.
I don't miss the sound of my voice. So this is our bonus
episode because we've missed you all. A bonus episode because we miss you.
But we're also tired, So for now, just this one and then dot
dot dot Yeah. Amen? Amen? Oh what have you been up to?
Casey? What? What wellity? I'm in? Like what I'm calling
like Schrodinger's cat for author right now, which is the space between my book
is written and it hasn't yet come out, and by the time this episode
comes out, it will be out in the world. Right now, I
get to sort of exist in this place of having written it, but it's
neither been successful or unsuccessful yet, which is like my ideal place to be.
So I planned to spend the next couple of weeks practicing, letting go
of outcome, just being proud that I wrote a book because honestly, top
five hardest things I've ever done. And you witnessed a lot of the highs
and lows of I mean, I feel like there were so many highs because
the end result is so beautiful. I can't wait for everybody to be able
to share in it with you and me and us and us. Yeah,
what about you? What's new? I'm like, not a whole lot is
new. But when I saw that this was episode twenty four, it reminded
me of the twenty four year old that I hooked up with a few weeks
ago, and so then I was like, and when I was doing that,
I was like, this would be so good for safe work. So
yeah, my raunchy era. Ooh, the twenty four year old that's over.
Now. What is I mean not that we can generalize for all twenty
four year olds, but what was it like to have such a big age
gap in that direction, because I feel like you've had an age gap in
the other direction. Definitely, Yes, hmmm. I think like the use
of like social media was coming up when we were doing whatever we were doing
in a very strange way. I think that is like he was over analyzing
a lot of things and a lot of things that he thought that I wanted,
and I was just like, I literally never said that I wanted any
of this. I'm just having fun. So is this the kind of thing
where like they monitor social media and they're like, well, you let you
viewed this story, but you didn't view this story and you liked this post
from yeah, three weeks ago, which means and it felt very strange,
And I was just like, I don't really, I don't know what you're
talking about. It like, I do not communicate my desires in that way.
No, No, not at all. I literally we'll just tell you
about them. And somehow they still were like assuming that I wanted more from
the relationship than I did, which I think is like having that expression in
this way, and I was like, I'm not tripping. Please, You're
like, I am not trying to marry a twenty four years No, no,
No, that's really it amazing. So we're talking about attachment today.
Do I know your attachment style? You've had to told me at some point.
I feel like maybe you could guess, Okay, I mean scorpio,
so just intense, yeah, no, and intense and attachment style are Yeah,
I think it is, it can be. I would guess that you
are Gosh. I see you as anxious sometimes and I see you as if
we did in other times. Are you just are you disorganized? Gali?
I feel like that in certain spaces, I show up in certain ways,
like I think that I think probably I lean more anxious relationally, but I
think I can quickly go into avoidant or once I hit a certain place,
it's just like I just can cut off real quick. So but I feel
like you've definitely seen me in bundo spaces totally. And I am a true
believer that even if you have quote unquote secure attachment style which never seen it,
don't believe it exists, but okay, don't know her, Yeah,
you still have avoidant and anxious parts of yourself that are going to show up
in different contexts. So that makes sense to me. But do you have
one where where like when people ask you the question, you typically say one
or the other. I think probably anxious. Yeah, yeah, I lean
anxious as well. And I feel like when I get avoidant, it's just
because I'm really anxious. It's like my anxiety has spilled over the top and
it became avoidance. Yeah. I feel like I resonate with that when I'm
just like, I can't, I can't be this exius anymore. Just like
got a power down? Yeah, yes, shut down, she DoD.
We do a little bit of a like a brief one of one on attachment
for listeners who may not be as familiar. That sounds great, Okay,
all right, I'm gonna give it a go. All right, so way
to go. Whack at it? Sorry, we'll take a whack up.
Can you do the accent? Well, she's American when she says that,
Oh oh, they both say it. Whack at it, uh, listeners.
Camille and I had like a little weekend slumber party a couple of months
ago, and Camille so sweetly brought me the shirts that they wear well they
Why am I talking about them? Lindsay Lohand as two people wears in the
parent trap with the it's from the vineyard and the parent trap. I still
wear that to that most nights of the week. It's so comfortable. The
Parker Noll Vineyard pee before I give the one one? What kind of attachment
do you think we have to each other? I think I think that you
feel anxiously attached to me, and I feel securely attached to you. I'm
going to need you to get I'm gonna need you to explain. I don't
disagree. I honestly, I don't disagree. I think that I think I
don't know. I know I didn't get on the spot. No. I
think that genuinely, when you bring, when you present with your like anxious
kind of instinct, I feel maybe calm, more calm, like I feel
like usually I am very dramatic about most things. But I think that somehow
your anxiety makes me feel like I'm like, I just don't think this is
that deep? Yeah, and are secure based for me? Yeah? And
I think you're like, what you mean, it's not that deep? It
is and I'm just like it's it's deep to me, and I was like,
I think it's fine. I think you're great. I think we're great.
Yeah, maybe, but I will. I think one thing that we
both do is if we're feeling like our relationships like a little off, or
we're like feeling far away, then we like we we will like share TikTok,
or we'll get on text and we'll get off chat. We'll get on
text and we'll be like I still love you, you still love me?
Yeah, you know. We we're also really anxious is when one of us
is on vacation. Yeah, because it's not a person who's not on vacation
that's anxious. It's the person who's on vacation because they like, we will
text each other being like am I okay? Are we okay? Yeah?
Literally, yeah that's so true everything okay, yeah see you. But I
do think that, like we don't just have attachment to romantic partners to sexual
partners. We have attachment with our colleagues and with our bosses, with their
co workers. And it's different across the spectrum. So anyway we can get
into that in a second totally. I was also thinking about friends, like,
so yes, I'm like when I think about most relationships, I'm like,
ah, yeah, yeah, be obsessed with me. Luckily most people
are from okay attachment one oh one. Our ADHD is poppin' attachment. So
the way that I love to talk about attachment is less in terms of style
and more in terms of strategy. I'll explain. When we come into this
world, we have a nervous system, we have a cardiovascular system. We
also have an attachment system, and it's actually this very advanced form of regulating
whether or not we're safe. And it's really important, especially when we're young,
because if we're not in close proximity to a caregiver, we actually cannot
survive for that long. And so this attachment system tracks when we might be
in danger of being separated from that caregiving and then it sets the alarm off.
And when the alarm goes off, we have different strategies for pulling that
caregiving back in, whether that's crying, cooing, trying to make eye contact,
reaching right, if that, If those strategies work, if you reach
and someone comes, if you cry and someone soothes you, you move closer
and closer to secure strategies of maintaining attachment. But for many of us that
didn't happen, and I'm not somebody that is like it's all the parents fault.
I think caregivers have their own contexts, they have their own histories.
There's a lot of reasons why sometimes caregivers can't be attuned in that way.
But when that happens repeatedly over time, what we learn is that, oh,
I'm not actually very efficient in getting my needs met. I better change
my strategies. The way that I'm reaching for them isn't enough, and so
we might reach harder, cry louder, find these other ways of essentially exaggerating
our alarm system because the standard wasn't working. That is what I call anxious
attachment. Now, in situations where even that exaggeration isn't working, people still
aren't coming. That can be when I think folks veer into avoidant attachment,
because what they learn is I am expending so much energy setting off these alarm
bells and it is not working and no one is coming, and why would
we continue to exert that much energy? So it shifts into more of a
shutdown space where it's like I'm not even going to bother because it is too
painful to even take the risk, so that is more of an avoidant attachment
style, and then disorganized is a combination of both and often comes from a
childhood or a series of circumstances in life where there's just a ton of chaos
or unpredictability. Maybe we're putting a caregiving role really early in life. Maybe
there were experiences of abuse, neglect, oppression, lack of resources. So
that's sort of the one on one on infancy. But inevitably those strategies make
their way into our adult relationships, as we're talking about, and so even
when we have somebody that is safe, that is willing, that is a
tune sitting in front of us, we are still going to employ those strategies
when we were younger. And to make it more complicated, you know,
most of the time people who are anxious and avoidant also partner with folks who
are either avoidant or anxious, which means that we've got so predictable exactly,
we've got two or more disregulated alarm systems interacting with one another. Right,
and then that those are the folks that often find their way into our therapy
offices. And certainly some of the reasons I have found my way into a
therapy office in the past. I love how you didn't even talk about secure
attachment. I well, actually in my book, I'm like, dear reader,
if you have secure attachment, good for you. I didn't write this
for you up, hope you still like it, because you know, my
people are the insecure people. That's who we work with. That's the people
in my life, that's me. Mm hmmmm hmm. Yeah. I feel
like it's so interesting to notice the places where anxious and avoidant come into relationship
with one another. And I wonder why that happens so frequently. It's like
all the time, like with the relational work that I do as a therapist,
but then in my own personal relationships, I'm like, you know,
even with like my best friend, I'm like very physically affectionate, and she
could not hate that more. And I'm like, why don't you like this?
It's just like those opposites. It's so interesting. Well, I read
in a couple of different places. Some ideas about that are that we are,
you know, we are recreating what we know, rereach for familiarity.
Oftentimes, folks who develop in anxious attachment and childhood had avoidant caregivers and so
when we go to seek partnership in adulthood, we look for what we know,
and what we know is avoidance. That could be one reason. The
other thing that I've heard is that early on in that like new relationship energy
state, that anxious partners are really attracted to what appears to be an avoidant
partner's sense of security, independence, confidence. That's the side of an avoidant
partner that you tend to see during ENRI. And on the flip side,
the side of the anxious partner that you tend to see during ENRI is often
very vulnerable, very communicative, which for somebody with avoidant attachment can be very
attractive early on because you're like, that's something I don't have, right,
But as that plays out as NRI fades, that can become a dynamic that
is that is mutually triggering, but also a dynamic where it makes the way
for really immense healing if you have the resources and support to do that.
Wow, you're so smart. Oh thanks, you can't wait to reread your
book. Thanks for me. Okay, listener questions, Yeah, let's get
it all right. We have our first question. Does it really come down
to attachment or is it an over simplification. I think both kind because as
you were describing attachment, I was also thinking about, just like you know,
the things that we think of when we think of fight and flight and
freeze and fond of just how to determine safety and how to react when we
feel unsafe. That is kind of like the baseline for how we navigate the
world in so many different spaces. You know, when we think about people
whose identities have been oppressed by society, you largely will feel unsafe. And
so I think how that manifests is different for different people, but ultimately,
like the quest or desire for safety, for community, for solidarity is an
underlying human impulse, and trying to find relational connection is an underlying human impulse.
Our attachment styles are so varied in different spaces and places throughout our lives,
and that changes and evolves as we evolve and find our community and find
relationships that feel safe and heal old trauma wounds or disconnect from problematic family members.
Like all of these things I think are all tied into each other.
But I think I just deeply believe that being relational is what makes us human,
and it is like the most important human imperative. And if that is
the case, then I think it feels very important to consider what attachment looks
like. But I think it also is important to consider how that comes to
be totally. Yeah. I mean, I think whenever we try to zero
in on a concept that is about the individual or even just the family of
origin, like attachment, and we're not looking at those systemic factors, that
we're missing a huge piece of it. Yeah, because so much of the
way that anxious or avoidant attachment gets passed down through generations is through generational trauma,
right, and generation oppression, and especially if we grow up in communities
that share a particular kind of oppression and we're co regulating with folks within that
community, like that could be another way that attachment shifts is passed down along
with resiliencies, right, Yeah. I mean the other thing it makes me
think about is how there's nothing adaptive about feeling safe when you're not safe,
Like, are we actually trying to work towards helping people feel safe in situations
where they aren't safe? No, And there are many situations that don't call
for a sense of security because there isn't a sense of security And naming that
is actually what health looks like. And so yeah, I think it's also
important to say, like, yes, there's insecure insecure attachment style, but
it's also very possible to be a person that is like within your values and
growing and still feeling insecure because your environment is insecure. In those cases,
we have to build those secure structures first, right. I feel like that's
like the biggest part of when you're a therapist and you have like therapists of
imposter syndrome, and it's like validating is enough. It's like, but validating
is so important. You know. I work with a lot of black clients
and a lot of black queer clients, and a lot of it is like
being like, well, yeah, of course you feel fucked up about these
things because these things are fucked up. You aren't meant to feel good there,
You're not meant to thrive there. So I think part of that is
like, oh, okay, Like I'm not tripping for not excelling and feeling
good and being able to do the millions of things a day because I'm operating
in a system that is inherently unsafe and not meant for me to be okay
totally. And I think that in some ways gets at one of the biggest
questions that I get about attachment, which is for folks who are in an
unsafe situation, or they may be in a relationship and they know themselves to
be an anxiously attached person or avoidantly attached person, having a really hard time
deciphering between like is my gut feeling that I should leave right or is this
my anxious attachment style telling me to leave, and like panic at not knowing
the difference, because it feels like there's a lot of weight on a decision
like that, and it is really hard to know the difference. How do
you move past triggering each other's attachment wounds and start building security. I think
that we spin our wheels when we try to tell ourselves, like be less
triggered, be less triggering, right, It's like, actually impossible to just
make that decision. The attachment reactions we have, as you named, fight,
flight, freeze, fond. We don't get to make choices about that
that just happens in our bodies. So what I say to folks is instead
of instead of even thinking about the actions and the behaviors, building a more
secure relationship with yourself and with other people. It starts with expanding your nervous
system resources, and like starts in the body. If you basically insecure attachment
style is I'll use some jargon and then I'll try to explain it and secure
attachment style. Folks with insecure attachment tend to have a more narrow window of
tolerance, meaning that they are more easily dysregulated. So the way that we
can develop more secure attachment is by expanding that window of tolerance, which means
learning techniques to regulate our nervous system when we notice that it's disregulated or it's
not even about getting regulated, it's about actually having an outlet for that dysregulation.
Right if we want to if we feel angry, I think often from
an avoidant place, we might try to shut that down and say, don't
be angry, don't be triggering, But actually that anger needs to go somewhere,
it needs to be released. I talk to folks about like getting into
a boxing class. I really believe that the shift starts in the body and
being attuned to where you're at in the body. Are you in fight,
are you in flight? Are you in font? Because if you can start
to attune to those states. Those states can give you information about what needs
to happen next. If I'm in a fight place, that means that I
have some angri or upset energy that needs to go somewhere. I have a
choice whether that comes out in this conversation with my partner or I use other
techniques to get that out. If I'm in a fawning place, I have
a choice. Do I fond in the conversation I'm having with my partner,
or do I go and do some breath work and see if I can move
my body out of that place and into a more engaged place. So,
anyway, all that to say, I think it's way less about say this
differently or behave differently, and much more about getting to know how it feels
in your body when you are starting to move into an insecure attachment response,
slowing down and giving yourself a few minutes app so that different choices open up
for you than the one that you would impulsively make from a place of just
regulation. Yeah. I also think that building that resource in relationships lets our
partners know how to notice those things about us. I often ask couples that
I work with, how do you know when so and so is feeling this.
How do you know and so and so is feeling this. We're able
to be like, oh my gosh, when I like start pacing, or
like when my eye starts twitching, or I would like start to rub my
shoulder, then I know that I'm getting a bit disregulated. But if your
partner partners can also point to those things and be like and name it out
loud, literally, be like, hey, I notice that you're you know,
you're getting shifty in your seat. We need to take a second.
And then you start to have this language, just like I think, a
somatic language between the group of you that also feel safe, because I think
all of it is also feeling seen. If somebody's able to say, hey,
it looks like or might you need this? Or would it feel good?
If that's also I think a really safe place to start operating from is
if you can kind of do that coregulation once you've I mean or in tandem
with identifying those sensations in yourself. Yeah, what a gift that is to
partners when we can do that, Because I think, at least for I'll
speak for myself, if someone came to me and was like, I don't
like how you're talking to me, you're being defensive. You know, I
could probably hear that, but that would take a lot of energy for me
to hear that and shift. But if somebody just observed me and said,
I feel you shutting down, or I see that you're you know, I
see that you're pacing, that's not something I can I can really even argue
with. In the moment, it's like, okay, yeah, it sort
of cuts to the heart of it, the way that opens a door.
I really love that. How does attachment style show up during sex? The
way that anxious attachment shows up for me is a wanting affirmation and attention in
a specific way, and I lean to more of a submissive sexually. And
I think that it feels safe to have somebody making decisions or taking a bit
more control, or being more interactive or having, yeah, having some attention
towards me, or also trying to suggest or offer sex when I'm feeling anxious
as a way to connect. Yeah, totally. I think it's so insightful
that if you're somebody that's drawn towards power dynamics, there's very likely and it's
something attachment related at play, right, Because what is the original power dynamic
of our lives, usually with our caregivers, right, so it makes all
the sense in the world. This is a lot of what my book is
about is the intersection of attachment and sex, And what I was finding in
the research is that kind of unsurprisingly, the more weight a relationship has in
your life, the more triggering it is likely to be. And because our
culture, because most cultures put so much emphasis on sexual partnership and romantic partnership,
it is typically in our sexual relationships that we get the most triggered because
those are the ones that hold the most societal weight. Now, if you
know, as we shift gears and are in this revolution where we're starting to
uplift our platonic relationships as just as if not more important than those relationships,
I think that will shift for people. But you know, more often than
not this is the case. And exactly like you said, the way that
you either reach for sex, say yes to sex, say no to sex.
Those are all attachment strategies and we don't have to pathologize them. I
mean we can because sex happens in the body. Sex can actually be a
way to move through an anxious attachment reaction. It can. Just like when
we were little, we reached for closeness, and when we got that closeness
we were soothed. As adults, we might reach for sex and when we
get that closeness feel soothed. But of course, like with anything else,
when you take that to certain extremes, it can become a barrier to intimacy.
So a really easy narrative to glob onto because of all of our sex
miseducation is that sex equals love and sex equals care. Yes, so if
that is our conceptualization, then every time we want sex, if every time
we want care or connection, the thing we go to as sex, and
if we are in a relationship where our sex life waxes and wains, or
our partners on the A spectrum or whatever, we might feel totally unloved and
uncared for because we've equated sex with love and care, so we have to
I think there are a lot of ways we're reaching for sex as a form
of care is really conducive to connection. But if you get siloed into thinking
that that's the only route forwards connection, then your sex life will collapse under
the pressure. It's just too much for any sex life to hold. My
girlfriend says she thinks I'm anxious because I don't remember details from our fights.
But it's not like I'm consciously trying to be avoidant. I genuinely just don't
remember. Is this anxious avoidance? What do you think case? I think
it could be. I mean, there is research that suggests that folks with
insecure attachment styles anxious or avoidant, have more challenges with remembering high intensity conversations
than folks with secure attachment, which makes perfect sense. When our nervous systems
are just regulated, when we're in fight flight free spawn, our bodies aren't
focused on memory. They're focused on surviving, right, So of course,
if you're just regulated in these conversations, your memory is going to shift.
And in no way would somebody ever do that on purpose. That's actually not
a choice that we can make. The only thing I would say here is
I would never look at one sign of an attachment style and then say that
means you're anxious, or that means you're blianing. There could be so many
other reasons this is happening. I have ADHD, and I know that that
absolutely impacts my memory for these kinds of conversations, and there could just literally
be differences in cognition and memory that have nothing to do with attachment or are
related to attachment. So I wouldn't be so quick to be diagnostic about it,
but you know, it's worth being curious. And if the if this
is the complaint or the request that a partner is making that they want they
wish for you to remember things more, then it might be going back to
what we just said in And I think one of the recent questions which is
slowing down some of these conversations a little bit, because there's you know,
if they're moving at a fast pace in their high intensity, it is almost
impossible for us to encode what's happening there. Is it appropriate to tell someone
my style and needs on the first date? I like this question, Is
it appropriate? I don't see why it wouldn't be appropriate. I think that
if you're dating or if you're interested in somebody, talking about your needs is
essential. And I don't think that it has to be like a list of
demands. But I think that there are ways to integrate showing parts of yourself
to somebody to see if there's compatibility there. And I think that when it
comes to talking about your attachment style. I think it would depend on the
person that you're on a date with and what you're trying to communicate, Because
are you saying I have an anxious attachment style? Like what are you hoping
to get from that? That you could also just like offer in different ways.
These attachment styles and language are very social media heavy right now, like
everybody is talking about this sort of thing, and so I guess I would
just be curious, like, what are you trying to communicate to that person?
I think needs is fine. I think however you want to communicate it
is fine, But I'd be curious, what are you trying to get out
of that and trying to warn them of something, prepare them for something?
Do you feel really seen and explained by that? I would be curious about
that bit of it, but I don't think it's inappropriate. My experience on
like sapphic first dates is that this almost always comes up on a first date
and it's sort of like, here are the things we're going to cover on
a sapphic first date. We're going to talk about astrology and we're maybe definitely
astrology. Yeah, We're talk about astrology, and we're going to talk about
our attachment style. I've definitely talked about my attachment style on a number of
first dates. But now I'm asking myself a question you're asking Tomial, which
is like, what, yeah, what is the desire are? What are
we desiring to get out of that? I think within the queer community,
attachment style is often a shared language and a quick way that we can sort
of signal this is, this is what you're going to get if you get
into this. But but yeah, maybe sometimes we are too quick to silo
ourselves to that and don't actually explain and practice what that means. It's so
interesting. I'm like, maybe like it's and like just to do another gay
ass thing. I'm like, well, maybe it's the scorpio in me,
But I just feel like I'm a little too private to be sharing that on
the birthday, Like I'd be like, you don't, don't worry about it,
Like why are you trying to get to know me so well? And
there's your importance? Yeah? Exactly. Well, and I'm a Pisces,
so I'm like my big three, I'm a Pisces, I'm anxious, and
I don't know. I'd probably give them my personality to test results as well
as partners. We are each other's teachers about ourselves, and at a good
teacher ty traits information. You don't throw out terms that you don't know whether
or not the other person understands. You don't teach when somebody isn't able to
comprehend or isn't emotionally ready for what you're saying. So I think be a
two to the person that you're sitting across. Do they know what attachment style
is? Maybe start with that question, Hey, how do you feel about
attachment? Is that something you think about? It wouldn't be cool if I
shared a little bit about mine. You know, t treate the information.
You don't have to get it all out there day one. Yeah, do
you think someone with a predominantly fearful, avoidant attachment style would thrive more in
polyamorous relationships as opposed to a monogamous relationship. No, I do not.
I don't know. I think that I think that anyone of any attachment style
can learn how to thrive in a monogamous relationship and can learn how to thrive
in a polyamorous relationship. But I do understand where this question comes from.
I think like people who might struggle with jealousy or anxiety might feel like,
Gosh, if I just cared less, if I was less anxious or less
jealous, then I do really well in a polyamorous relationship. And I think
that that is a little bit of a misunderstanding of what avoidance means is I
think people who have avoidant attachment are just as anxious, if not more anxious,
than people would think attachment. They just express it differently. And then
one thing that is required for the success of both monogamous and polyamorous relationships is
being able to communicate what's going on for you. And I think that an
avoidant attachment style, if you haven't had the chance to look at that and
work through that yet, can make that kind of communication really challenging. Folks
with avoidant attachment might bottle things up and then their feelings might come out in
ways that surprise them and their partners. So I don't think any attachment style
precludes you from any relationship style, and I think we should remember that that
all of us are anxious. It just shows up differently depending on what your
attachment style is. Yeah, I think you really hit the nail on the
head with that. So I think that that's where people can often go when
thinking about polyamory. They're like, oh, I'm way too anxious for that
and really kind of write it off in that way. And so they're like,
oh, well, if you're avoidant, like you would just thrive because
it's being like misaligned with not caring. And yeah, like you said,
in any type of nominogamy, I think communication and transparency are really important.
So I think that everybody, when they're trying to learn more about themselves and
learn about how they function in relationships, if that is a guidepost, then
really anything is for everyone. Okay, this conversation about attachment obviously perfectly segues
into talking about your book, and we got to hear a bit about your
book writing process, and I'd love to ask you a few more questions about
it. You're ready, You're ready? Yeah, Oh, I like this
one. Will we get an audio book, so feel it all. It
does come out in an audiobook. I did the audio recording a few weeks
ago, and it's really a bonus because I was quite ill when I did
this, and so my voice, yeah, I was like quite raspy,
so it's very asmr. I feel like there's like an extra layer of enjoyment
to be had because my voice is like, ooh oh, that's amazing.
I love when I get more than I know favorite things I know. So
anyway, yeah, I highly recommend that you check out the audio book.
Oh how soothing. What was the hardest part about writing your book. I'm
so used to writing in such small spurts on Instagram, write like three paragraphs
at a time, and so to sit down with what it is now,
like two hundred and seventy or whatever pages, and to have to weave my
own story into it and ask myself, like what parts of myself I was
ready to give to the world, Because I do share vulnerabily on social media,
but I like to talk about how there's like level one vulnerability, level
two vulnerability, level three vulnerability, and on social media I kind of like
toggle between like level zero and level two, and I think in this book
we really get to level three. And I'm sharing parts of my story from
long before I was a queer sex therapist, a lot about when I myself
was a client of sex there and I was deeply struggling with severe mental illness,
which isn't a part of myself that I talk about a lot on social
media, and so I think it was a long time ago somebody had given
me the advice don't talk about your mental health history. It'll it'll decredit you.
And even though logically I was like, that's bullshit, it really the
shame of that has been a barrier and I did have to through this process.
I did have to break through that and really believe that, like this
wouldn't destroy my career, that this actually is why I'm good at what I
do, and I can only sort of hope that that others feel the same
way. And I believe like that the people that I want to be in
community with will feel that way. Yeah, got to say, those are
some of my favorite parts and moments of the book. Is just learning more
about you and feeling your humanity, which I think you did so well in
sharing that and bringing people into your story, which I think helps them reflect
on their own. So thank you, Thanks for digging deep. Thanks a
lot. Yeah, could you share a quote that you're really proud of and
why that quote is special to you? I will share one that I have
that I know off the top of my head, but that I also it's
just it's so simple. It's sometimes the sound of sexual awakening is a scream.
And what I feel like that quote encompasses is that, like, obviously,
this whole white Western wellness composite would have us thinking that our awakenings have
to take place like buy the sea on a yoga matt deep breathing, or
like with a partner in bed having a really intimate moment. But I really
believe that the type of sexual awakening that we need is this sort of like
midday running errands, middle of being stressed moments, small moments that compile over
time, and that the process of awakening can be really painful, like this
is a rebirth, and birth comes with labor pains, and so this might
hurt. All right, this might be painful, And I think I want
to give folks permission to embrace what is happening with our sexuality as an awakening,
even if it doesn't look the way that we're taught that awakenings should look
or have looked for other people. But this week's safe word et has suggested
one for us, and it is asparagus, which is great, you know,
a good springtime vet. We're here for it. Safe word is hosted
by Casey Tanner and Neil Lewis, and is produced by coordinator E. T.
Townsend. Our theme song is written and performed by Emma Jane and Toria
Rainey. To support the show, please follow us on Spotify and take a
moment right now to give us five stars. We also love rave reviews on
Apple Podcasts or wherever you listen to podcasts. Ready for your next sexual awakening.
You're never too old, too traumatized, or too inexperienced to begin or
begin again. I wrote my book to usher in a new kind of awakening,
not one that leaves you feeling like you should have a certain kind of
sex, be in a particular kind of relationship, or feel positively all the
time. Feel It All is an invitation to coming back home to yourself.
Order it now to be one of the first people to read it. Yay
if anything today. May be curious about seeking support. The Expansive Group has
a great team of therapists and mentors to discuss challenges you may be facing.
Go to the Expansivegroup dot com, submit a contact form and we'll help you
get connected. We're not sure yet when we're going to be back onto a
new season. We're really valuing our rest right now, but we'll get back
to you soon. Yes we will. And for behind the scenes look at
Safeword and podcast updates, find us on Instagram at safeword pod