WEBVTT

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Yeah, I cannot get it.
Yeah, ma'am. Good evening. Welcome

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back to calling all beings everybody.
I'm your host DJ, along with the

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executive producer, technical director, and
my everything brother from another money, Nate

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Thong. Greetings everybody, Happy Tuesday
evening. Very excited for the show tonight.

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We've been dying to get Thomas on
the show with us and talk about

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skinned Walker round. We're about to
do it. That's a ah man.

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He's channeling right now. Baby,
he's feeling it, but before before he

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feels that someone else gotta feel.
And that is our researcher of this show

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for a long, long long time, even though she got a sister from

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another mister up in here, and
that is a study of UAPs. Debs.

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How are you, debs. I'm
excited. I feel like my ranch

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ancestry is gonna come out today,
Like I feel proud that it's in my

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blood. Maybe she was born there
and we just don't know this all right.

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And now, last, but not
least, of course, is our

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another researcher, and we call her
Courtney Connected. She is the cab prospect.

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She's got the one percent patch in
the little sort of it says earth

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on the bottom rocker right there.
What's up, Courtney, what's up y'all?

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I'm so excited to be here tonight. And how about Thomas Winterton.

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We've all seen him, you know
on Skinwalker Ranch with the hat, you

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know, outside the building. It's
so cool to be here tonight to hear

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him and hear what he has to
say. We watched the we watched the

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preview episode and his hair looks great
even though he has the hat on.

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So I don't know. I mean, he could go either way, whereas

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for me, I should have a
hat on right now. Obviously we all

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to represent, but everybody will know
why real soon, all right, So

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this is what's going down. He
is the superinependent and serial entrepreneur and the

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og at Skinwalker Ranch. Part of
people put your hands together for Thomas winter

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Time. Cannot get it, man, I'm just gonna say it. I'm

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not saying it. Amen excited after
an intro like that, that was awesome.

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That's how we do it on here, and that's how we'll do it

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next time. You come on,
hopefully like best ever. I think that's

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the best one I've ever gotten.
Thank you very much, Thomas. I

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appreciate that we do sort of pride
ourselves on these sorts of things. I'm

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making people feel welcome and having fun, entertaining but yet interesting and deep conversations

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about the phenomenon. So with that, So, yeah, as we said,

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you are the superintendent of Skinwalker ranch
and a cereal entrepreneur. And that

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was particularly interesting to me because I'm
sort of one of these guys who goes

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to Whole Foods and will look at
all the different cereals. You know,

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all they have twenty seven different types
of granola. So I wanted to make

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sure what kind of cereal that you're
producing, because I'll buy your cereal.

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Oh yeah, yeah, I think
I think you'd be more familiar with the

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term like serial killer, you know, than cereal maker. Right, so

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cereal is in multiple How do you
guys see salt serial killer with the bowl

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of cereal on it and the spoon
inside? I mean, yeah, I

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thought there's gonna be Skinwalker granola.
But okay, special K, right,

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special K, super K protect the
rights of cereal. All right, let's

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let's jump right into it. Nathan, do you want to make him large

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on the screen or you want to
stay you want to stay with this format.

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Oh I don't hear Nathan. Nathan's
on mutemute. Sorry about that.

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So the show is starting tonight.
Everybody who doesn't know. Season five is

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kicking off this evening at nine Central
tent Eastern. And before we get into

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questions with Thomas, I thought it
would be good just to kind of get

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us a little bit hype by doing
a quick thirty second promo of the season.

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So I'm gonna put that on screen
the Thomas. We're going to jump

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right into questions. It is no
longer a question of whether the phenomena is

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real. It is now about what
we are documenting at Skinwalker Ranch. This

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is unlike in the experiment we've done
before. Who want that? They're coming

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down? What is inside the mesa? It's like jelly that can't be,

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but it is? What is that? The Secret of Skinwalker Ranch. New

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episode tonight at nine part of History
Strange and Unusual only on the History Channel

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and watch next day on the History
Channel app. That's what I'm talking about.

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I almost got through this today,
but with all that's been going on

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in my life that I'm not going
into right here, I didn't get to

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watch. But about part of it
untill we saw the couple helicopter guys that

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we're gonna go up and do a
new type of an experiment that you hadn't

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done. But before we get to
that portion of the phenomenon, Thomas,

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something I've been interesting, very interested
to ask you, since I've been watching

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this show for about I think three
seasons now and I love the show,

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is I'm very curious about a bigfoot
activity if there is bigfoot activity either on

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the ranch now or earlier before you
know, you had fifty cameras, because

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I know they're camera shy or camera
sensitive. Have you had any bigfoot activity

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that you're aware of, either before
you were at the ranch or since?

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So interesting question. So the easy
answer to that is no, But I

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will I will add to that.
It's interesting that we've had some some of

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the local Native Americans in the area
that have told us about, you know,

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bigfoot stories that have happened in the
I mean we're talking really close to

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the ranch, and we've had some
individuals from the previous eras of the ranch

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that have reported seeing you know,
big prints on the ranch. But during

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our time, and I don't know
anything. I don't know of any story

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specific to bigfoot related to the ranch, Yeah, thank you. Well,

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okay, so other than the prince
that somebody, one of your redecessors found

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prints that that appeared to be a
big human looking foot but oversized, I

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don't well, see, the thing
was is they reported a big print,

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but they never they they didn't give
a specific like whether it was a wolf

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or whether it was a They had
just indicated that they were they were big.

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If I remember right, it was
like it was the stride that had

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caught their attention. But I don't
think that they I don't remember them giving

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details like you know, barefoot or
it just they I think they just used

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the term print. And if I
remember the story right, this is this

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is going back to like season two
or three. We'd had somebody on as

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we tried to go back through the
different errors than anybody that may have information,

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and I just remember vaguely a story. If I remember right, the

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stride was like six feet apart,
you know, it was large. But

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I don't remember them. I don't
want to add to the story. Sure,

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uh and and indicate that they told
us more. I think they just

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said print and that was it was
left with that. Yeah, I mean

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six foot stride if they saw,
you know, a what And I'm I'm

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a kind of a junk amateur bigfoot
researcher. And so there's two things that

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that that we've you've covered here.
One is if there is a trackway meaning

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more than one print and there is
a five to six foot gap, that's

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fairly indicative of of something because I've
seen people try to recreate that and they

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just can't step that far. The
other thing is that a lot of researchers

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will tell people who are having a
habituation thing where they'll come and slap on

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someone's mobile home or even just their
home. Is you put up cameras,

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You put up cameras and motion lights, and they go away because they will

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not allow themselves to be filmed and
they seem to be able to see in

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that kind of eye r spectrum.
So the fact that you guys have more

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cameras than probably any ranch in you
know, in the West, in the

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Western United States, that would keep
that, in my mind, would keep

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them away. So but makes sense. Yeah, I'll pass on to the

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other cabs money Nathan Glad Sir.
Yeah, So Tomas, great having you

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with us. You know, I'm
kind of curious and usually alluded to this.

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The ranch has so many sensors on
it. You guys have conducted so

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many experiments trying to test various conditions, and you found some anomalous activity that

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seems pretty clear. Have you ever
wondered what you might find if you took

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a similar approach to just other pieces
of property, not Skinwalker Ranch. I

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guess what I'm trying to get out
here with this question is do you think

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there might be more happening just all
around us all the time that we're just

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not really able to pay attention to
or able to sense, and we're not

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looking for it. That is a
fantastic question, and it is indeed something

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that we have we've actually as a
team visited about that at length. You

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know, is it that we're seeing
more anomalies phenomena here simply because this is

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where the attention is being focused,
this is where where the instrumentation is or

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or is it you know, concentrated
And I could tell you so. I

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think we've got evidence to suggest that
both statements are true. I do believe

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after being on the ranch, I
think there's so much going on in this

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world that we just either can't see
or measure. So I think it's widespread,

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and I think it's pretty well documented. There are a lot of hot

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spots and strange you know, or
or i'll say places where strange things happen

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across the globe. You know,
Skinwalker Ranch does not have a monopoly on

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on phenomena. But that being said, I will say that we've had a

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couple incidents, and I'll give you
one example is go back a couple of

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seasons when we we were picking up
If I remember right, the RF spectrum

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was was really elevated, showing a
lot of activity, and it got to

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be where I started getting the pins
and needles sensation on my scalp, you

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know, kind of like when your
arm or your limb goes to sleep and

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then you finally get blood fall and
you got real pins and needles feeling.

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H That's when I started filling across
my entire scalp. And then I started

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to fill a slight throbbing start,
you know, back behind my eyes.

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And that's when I said, I've
got to get off the ranch. Yes,

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Travis stayed there. I evacuated the
ranch. I got in the jeep

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and I left. Now, the
interesting thing is is that as I left

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the ranch, the further I got
away, the less that I had the

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pins and needles. By the time
I got up to ute Plausea up there

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for in the middle of for Duchane, that sensation had stopped. And and

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and it took a little bit longer
for the headache to cease. But I

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know as I got further away from
the ranch that stopped. Now here's how

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I this is why I feel like
we have evidence to suggest that it was

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localized on the ranch is because Travis
guy stayed there and they continued to monitor.

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And if you remember, Travis like
actually had a spell there where he

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started having a hard time, uh
talking, He couldn't formulate a sentence,

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and they and and Dragon took him
and put him in the silo and they

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were able to see that when he
was inside the silo, the symptoms,

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uh you know, lessened, and
when he came out of the silo they

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they got greater. That was all
going on while I was off the ranch.

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So what that tells us as two
things is one, as I got

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further away it the symptoms got less. But we know the symptom, or

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we know that the phenomena or whatever
it was going on there continued. So

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it wasn't that the it wasn't that
whatever was causing that just you know,

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was diminishing and getting less. It
continued. We had people on the ranch

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that you know, we were measuring
this u they were able to show that

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that continued for quite a while.
Travis had his himp, so it continued

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on the ranch and me getting away
from the ranch solved it. So in

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that case, I think that's some
pretty strong evidence suggests that in that instance

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it was localized on the ranch.
Yeah, great, excellent. I think

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that was better than the granola question, Nathan, I really do appreciate.

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But yeah, let me let me
go to Debs. Debs, go ahead,

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ma'am. Yeah. So we got
to speak to TJ. Allard,

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who was very nice and has come
on CAB a few times. Yeah,

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and he's kind of hinted that there
are some things that happen to people that

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are not caught on the show.
So that was my question, is what

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are some of the weird stories that
don't make it into the show that you

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want to share with us. That's
a great question, and he's absolutely right.

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It is accurate to say that there
have been quite a few medical related

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instances that have happened to team members
as well as other individuals that are on

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the ranch that are not. You
know, it's it's tough when we start

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getting into when we start getting into
those medical instances. Now we have to

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weigh the person's privacy with the science. And there's some of them. There's

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some of the individuals that have had
some pretty serious and remarkable things happen.

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And I say remarkable just in that
like unexplained, but they were very sensitive

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about talking about it, and and
so we always want to be very respectful

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of their privacy. Now, I
will say, you know, I think

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the show has shown some of those
instances that have happened to some of us.

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I don't know. In in TJ's
podcast with you, did he ever

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share any of the things that he
experienced personally, Yeah, the fray effect

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where he was hearing the music and
that's he kind of implied that's why he

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doesn't go to the ranch anymore.
And he also talks about his phone getting

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messed up. Uh huh. Did
he did he talk about any of the

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effects that he had after he left? As far as I gotta be careful

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here. I don't want to.
I don't want to said he went to

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the hospital. I think. Okay, all right, yes, so you

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know there's an example of somebody that
and I won't I won't allude to.

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I just always get so cautious about
talking about people's healthcare and their their anceymptoms.

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But I will tell you this,
there have been multiple individuals that have

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not been on the show that have
had to go seek medical attention and and

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some of them, uh, some
of them were fairly serious, were very

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serious. And some of them the
diagnosis that I mean, the doctors were

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not able to determine what was causing
it. It was it was elusive as

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far as being able to diagnose what
exactly was going on. That's that's happened

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multiple times with multiple individuals. It
doesn't surprise me in the least. Miss

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Miss Courtney has a question. Hey, Thomas, this is a story,

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and so I'm just wondering what your
commentary might be around the two potential UAP

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Task Force folks that came to Skinwalker
Ranch. They brought instrumentation to study,

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you know, anomalous phenomenon. And
I guess according to the story, there

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was a wormhole or a portal that
opened up. They were on the ground,

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of course, and I think it
was night according to the story,

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and as they looked through this portal, it was daylight on the other side.

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And not only that, there was
a signature derived from this event happening.

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I mean, is there anything you
can say about it? Yeah,

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so I have heard about that.
We've we've discussed that, you know,

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short of interviewing the individuals and just
trying to get their account in a science

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investigation, you know, we're kind
of left. We're like, Okay,

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we've got the story, but what
do you do with it? Right,

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there's we weren't able to get any
measurements. And I have to say that

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that happened that predated our tenure on
the ranch. And we've been we've heard

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a lot of these stories. We've
talked and interviewed some of the people that

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were involved with these stories. But
the one thing that we've never been given

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is any data relating to these So
you talk about the signature being picked up,

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Well, we're told there's a signature, but we've never been given that

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data. We don't know what it
was. You know, Eric has,

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our principal investigator, Eric Bard has
uh just thoroughly combed through all of the

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previous records anything we could get our
hands on, because we didn't inherit anything

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other than a narrative from the previous
ownership. Nothing. So we got we

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got some stories, but no data. And so Eric has combed through anything

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to see if he could find any
trace of data measurable, you know,

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if they were picking up a signature, what were they picking it up with,

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what was what was the measurement and
and we don't have any of that

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and that hasn't been shared with us
to this day. So just but had

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you heard that something like that happened
because the name yes, okay, because

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the names are slightly up because the
UAP Task Force existed at the time when

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you were at the ranch. So
it may have been a SAP or it

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may have been AFSAP that that that
happened in that regime. So I'm yeah,

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I'm familiar with the story, and
I'm familiar with the individuals that were

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involved with that. Yes, okay, awesome, great job Courtney, Courtney

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connected And look who Vinnie Adams is
here? Hi, Vinnie Adams. I

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don't know if you've been on his
show. Or not disclose your team.

237
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But boy, he's uh, he's
got a great one. So what I

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wanted to ask you, I'm curious, Thomas if in all these experiences,

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I mean, what's coming to my
mind is in your twenties in and around

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Utah, working in different areas,
you couldn't have imagined that you'd be doing

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science experiments at this time in your
life, which I think is probably really

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cool, right, But what I
wanted to ask you is, at any

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time have you gone out of doors
on the ranch and tried to communicate with

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something or felt like something was communicating
with you. Yes, yes I have.

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And I will say, look even
six, if you told me eight

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years ago that I'd be doing this, I would have laughed at you.

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You know, I came on the
ranch purely for business purposes. I didn't

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even I had zero interest in this
genre, this space, and I was

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focused in on business only. And
so I'll say that you know earlier on,

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and I'll preface that by saying,
it took me a couple of years

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before I'd even admit that this was
real. Uh, and maybe not a

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couple of maybe a year year and
a half before I would admit that it

253
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was real. And then and then
to your question about communicating, I think

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it was first done kind of ingest, kind of mockingly. You know,

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I've heard this all these stories and
people are like, oh, it's trying

256
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and communicate, and so I think
that when I first started doing it,

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it was kind of mockingly and I
think it good example of that is is

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we had we had KSL Television come
out and spend a day with us on

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the ranch here a couple of years
ago. It was right around Halloween,

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and they sent a reporter and uh
videographer out there and they came and spent

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the day with us, and uh
they brought their drone obviously to fly and

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to get some aerial shots. And
this is all they They did the report

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on it, and this is all
on their report. You can you can

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go search it find it on YouTube
KSL. But the interesting thing was is

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that this uh, this videographer,
she had a drone and Eric had been

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we'd just been his side command center
and Eric had been briefing them on on

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the different things that we've seen,
and he was talking specifically to her about

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the electromagnetic interference that we've been experiencing
and now he felt like, you know,

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there was a magnetic fingerprint, if
you will, on some of the

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phenomena. He's been able to replicate
some of the things we've seen using a

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very strong magnet. And so he's
talking about this. We go outside and

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and her drone won't take off,
and there's a message on the screen saying

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electromagnetic interference. Move the drum in
the command center, right, yeah,

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well this is out on the helipad. O yep. So she moved.

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They finally get up in the air, and then we decided to go down

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to Homestead two and do a shot. And we put her drone down and

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it will not connect. And I've
got this on video. I videoed this

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on my phone. She sat there
and we literally tried everything she could think

279
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of to get this drone to connect
and take off, and it wouldn't.

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She tried taking the batteries out,
put him back in, restarting it,

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reloading, I mean, you name
it. She tried, it wouldn't go

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up. So we moved it to
a different spot a couple hundred feet down

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the road, and the same thing
and just again, I you know,

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I look back at it. I
in my heart it was kind of mocking

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a little bit, but I raised
my arms up in the air and I

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said, will you please, hey, ranch, will you please let her

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drone connect so she can get this
shot. And I'm not even kidding.

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Almost instantaneously after I said that,
the drone connected and took off and she

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got her daughter's shot. And you
know, we tell people all the time,

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it's not what happens on the ranch
necessarily, it's when it happens.

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You know, the drone connecting taking
off by hisself was not a big deal,

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but when you preface that with the
fact that we've been trying for twenty

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minutes to get it connected, wouldn't
And it wasn't until I put my arms

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up the air and say that.
So I've had a number of incidents where

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I've done that, and I have
to say they started out kind of like

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mockingly, but I said, but
I'll tell you right now, I think

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up to the point now they're less
mocking and more like, you know,

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I've witnessed it too many times and
I'm like, there might be something to

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this. I'm not gonna mock it
because I might end up looking like the

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fool in the end. So you
know, it's been a journey, it's

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00:24:02.160 --> 00:24:06.799
been a progression. And yes I
have I have talked out loud out there

302
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and and I sound crazy. Oh
my gosh, I can't even believe how

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far I've come. I sound crazy, Threving admitting this, But I do

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feel like something out there here's me, and there is some type of communication.

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00:24:21.880 --> 00:24:25.279
It's no different than people talking to
God. Right. It's not something

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that you can see, but you
feel it, right. So yeah,

307
00:24:27.519 --> 00:24:33.079
and that is that is really cool
to know. We have about five minutes

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00:24:33.119 --> 00:24:36.240
with you, and I want at
least the other caves that each get a

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question, so I'll shut up and
please go ahead, money Nathan. Yeah,

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00:24:40.079 --> 00:24:42.559
So, Thomas, you alluded to
the incident you were describing earlier about

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00:24:42.599 --> 00:24:45.799
the sensation you were feeling. And
I don't know if you've kept up with

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00:24:45.839 --> 00:24:51.000
this in the news, but sixteen
minutes to the piece about the directed energy

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weapons and Havana syndrome, and you
know, there seemed to be this connection

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to Russia with these directed energy weapons. It sounds like a lot of the

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00:24:59.359 --> 00:25:04.960
phenomenon that people experienced physiologically could be
described as directed energy. And I don't

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00:25:06.000 --> 00:25:07.920
know if you've thought about that or
you guys have explored that sources of that

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00:25:08.079 --> 00:25:11.839
energy, whether it's coming from off
the ranch below the ranch, and we're

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00:25:11.920 --> 00:25:17.119
kind of exploring that through different sensors. But what's your take on kind of

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00:25:17.160 --> 00:25:21.240
the havana syndrome and you know what
might be the root cause of that.

320
00:25:23.720 --> 00:25:27.920
Well, you know, I had
a severe head injury in twenty seventeen that

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almost cost me my life. I
was in the hospital and my doctors,

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I mean I was to the point
that the doctors called my wife in and

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00:25:36.799 --> 00:25:40.960
told her to start preparing the family
for you know, it didn't look like

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I was going to pull through.
I haven't. I've been reluctant to talk

325
00:25:48.319 --> 00:25:51.279
about that, and I haven't to
this day. I mean, we're all

326
00:25:51.319 --> 00:25:56.960
skirt around it. They show my
cat scan at nauseum and I say that

327
00:25:56.960 --> 00:26:00.960
they they do such a great job
on show. But you know, you've

328
00:26:00.960 --> 00:26:06.039
seen my cat scan on the screen
a lot. You know, we skirt

329
00:26:06.039 --> 00:26:08.759
around it. I haven't ever dived
into it, but I I will just

330
00:26:08.839 --> 00:26:15.519
tell you to your question, go
look at the time my injury. My

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00:26:15.640 --> 00:26:19.200
symptoms started showing themselves on March fourth
to twenty seventeen, Go back and look

332
00:26:19.240 --> 00:26:26.359
at when they evacuated the Havanah Embassy, the Cuba embassy there in Havana,

333
00:26:26.799 --> 00:26:32.119
and look at the timeline there,
and then start diving in and you start

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looking at the symptoms those people exhibited. And I'll just tell you right now

335
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that those are the people that have
come forward and talked. There's many more

336
00:26:41.960 --> 00:26:47.440
that haven't. And I'll just tell
you that I follow it extremely closely.

337
00:26:48.279 --> 00:26:55.400
I have since day one, and
well I haven't since we started really diving

338
00:26:55.400 --> 00:26:59.640
in and looking closely at my injuries. So that's that's probably all I'll say

339
00:26:59.640 --> 00:27:03.039
about that. But I'll just tell
you I you're on the right track,

340
00:27:03.079 --> 00:27:07.039
and I think there's, uh,
there's a lot we we ought to be

341
00:27:07.079 --> 00:27:12.519
paying attention to that really really closely. Wonderful, Thank you, miss.

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00:27:14.799 --> 00:27:18.680
I was gonna say, I concur
because U ap Med was looking at that

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00:27:18.720 --> 00:27:23.079
when I was helping them out Hevana
syndrome, and we've learned quite a bit

344
00:27:26.000 --> 00:27:30.720
how that worked. There's more to
that story, for sure, but I'm

345
00:27:30.799 --> 00:27:36.079
just going to keep my question quick
and simple. My question is what do

346
00:27:36.119 --> 00:27:42.920
you think's under the ranch dirt?
You know, come on, Thomas,

347
00:27:45.640 --> 00:27:51.480
Uh, that's a great question.
I think that's the question. I think

348
00:27:51.480 --> 00:27:53.400
that's the question that all of us
team members have. It's like what is

349
00:27:53.480 --> 00:28:00.960
under there? And and I'll tell
you it's been fascinating as we have really

350
00:28:00.039 --> 00:28:03.160
gone in and explored. Are you
guys on a tight timeline if I go

351
00:28:03.200 --> 00:28:06.039
over a minute or two as I
don't know? No, No, we're

352
00:28:06.079 --> 00:28:10.319
we're good. We just want to
take your time. Yeah, I want

353
00:28:10.319 --> 00:28:12.759
to make sure I answered this question, give it the time it deserves.

354
00:28:12.839 --> 00:28:21.440
So as we've tried to explore underground, you know, we inherited this narrative

355
00:28:21.480 --> 00:28:25.359
of don't dig, bad things happen
when you dig, diserve the earth and

356
00:28:25.480 --> 00:28:30.720
uh, and I've seen enough to
say there's, uh, there's some correlation

357
00:28:30.880 --> 00:28:33.400
there. Whether or not it's causation, I don't think we could say,

358
00:28:33.400 --> 00:28:37.240
but there are definitely a lot of
correlation to suggest that in fact, when

359
00:28:37.279 --> 00:28:44.680
we do digging exercises, bad things
happen. But we see these guys come

360
00:28:44.720 --> 00:28:52.880
out with these sophisticated GPR instruments ground
penetrating radar, it seems like, and

361
00:28:52.920 --> 00:28:56.640
we've we've had a number of them
out there, different experts, different pieces

362
00:28:56.640 --> 00:29:00.480
of equipment, different even different types
of technology on how they go about getting

363
00:29:00.480 --> 00:29:04.559
this information. Uh. And they've
just been showcased on the show throughout the

364
00:29:04.599 --> 00:29:11.039
seasons. And one of the things
that is consistent that comes back is that

365
00:29:11.119 --> 00:29:15.240
when they when they do these GPR
scans on the ranch. We had Jan

366
00:29:15.279 --> 00:29:21.039
frank out last year, season four, and Jan's been all over the world.

367
00:29:21.319 --> 00:29:23.880
I forget, He's been, I
mean one hundred and something countries.

368
00:29:23.920 --> 00:29:30.160
He's gone and done GPR in Uh. Very one of the most I would

369
00:29:30.200 --> 00:29:34.400
say he's probably one of the top
experts in his field. He comes out

370
00:29:34.400 --> 00:29:38.359
to the ranch. First of all, his equipment will not operate the way

371
00:29:38.400 --> 00:29:41.920
it's supposed to. It completely baffles
him. He can't figure it out.

372
00:29:41.920 --> 00:29:47.519
He's never he's only he told us
he's only seen that kind of interference one

373
00:29:47.519 --> 00:29:51.400
other time, and that was down
I believe, he said, in Columbia

374
00:29:52.440 --> 00:29:56.079
and they found out that they were
really close to a military base. It's

375
00:29:56.119 --> 00:30:02.440
only it's only time he's experienced that
type of interference, which I found interesting.

376
00:30:02.839 --> 00:30:06.640
But the other interesting thing is is
that as they try to get GPR

377
00:30:06.680 --> 00:30:10.880
into our soil, they I'll tell
us the same thing, your soil is

378
00:30:11.039 --> 00:30:18.640
really highly conductive, and the soil
being highly conductive just causes so much interference

379
00:30:18.680 --> 00:30:22.839
that they can't make heads or tails
beyond nine or ten feet down. What's

380
00:30:22.880 --> 00:30:27.759
there? So to your question,
what's below Skinwalker Ranch? I keep saying,

381
00:30:27.920 --> 00:30:37.680
what is causing this high conductivity that's
in our soil, that's causing this

382
00:30:37.799 --> 00:30:41.039
interference? What is it? And
then we go into the Mesa and we

383
00:30:41.119 --> 00:30:45.880
find this metal three hundred feet into
the mesa for which you know, we

384
00:30:45.200 --> 00:30:49.400
ship it off the University of Utah
and they're telling us this is not natural,

385
00:30:49.519 --> 00:30:56.079
this is forged. And we're asking
ourselves, why is there metal three

386
00:30:56.160 --> 00:31:03.279
hundred feet inside this dry deserty Mesa
for which we have no evidence of mining

387
00:31:03.359 --> 00:31:07.480
in that area? As far as
that specific spot, we have the US

388
00:31:07.519 --> 00:31:14.440
geological surveys that show I think it's
the US geological that we have them back

389
00:31:14.440 --> 00:31:18.480
to nineteen thirty seven, shows no
sign of digging in that area. And

390
00:31:18.559 --> 00:31:25.759
so we don't know's We honestly don't
know what's below the surface. We've been

391
00:31:26.279 --> 00:31:30.039
we inherited a narrative. I mean, we've been told so many stories from

392
00:31:30.079 --> 00:31:34.200
people during the Bigelower era that there
was this vast network of tunnels under the

393
00:31:34.279 --> 00:31:38.960
ranch. We've been told there's a
military base deep down below the ranch.

394
00:31:41.039 --> 00:31:44.480
All these things, well, I'll
tell you right now if that's true.

395
00:31:44.920 --> 00:31:49.119
I mean, the area could have
been chosen because there's highly if we've got

396
00:31:49.799 --> 00:31:53.000
satellites up there that are capable of
seeing below the earth surface, which we

397
00:31:53.079 --> 00:31:59.759
do now that can see like six
kilometers into the Earth's surface, that's a

398
00:31:59.759 --> 00:32:05.759
long ways down. If that's truly
the case, then if you're gonna put

399
00:32:05.759 --> 00:32:09.119
a military base or some kind of
type of installation, picking someplace that's got

400
00:32:09.160 --> 00:32:15.240
a high conductivity would sure be a
great masking, you know, to distort

401
00:32:15.400 --> 00:32:22.200
and cause all kinds of interference.
So they drilled an oil well to the

402
00:32:22.240 --> 00:32:24.920
southwest of the ranch, not on
the ranch, one of our neighboring properties,

403
00:32:25.000 --> 00:32:30.319
just to the southwest. I talked, I talked to the guy that

404
00:32:30.480 --> 00:32:36.119
was in charge of He was I
forget the name, the title that he

405
00:32:36.160 --> 00:32:39.440
has, but he was in charge
of the entire drilling operation on that specific

406
00:32:39.480 --> 00:32:46.319
coal and he told us that that
drilling rig experienced so many problems that the

407
00:32:46.480 --> 00:32:51.960
entire drilling crew was was convinced they
were on top of an Indian burial ground,

408
00:32:52.400 --> 00:32:54.559
and they actually ended up pulling the
pipe up out of the hole.

409
00:32:55.440 --> 00:32:58.720
I don't know how far down they
got, but they ended up moving the

410
00:32:58.799 --> 00:33:02.640
rig and drilling the whole the well
and it you know, they moved it

411
00:33:02.680 --> 00:33:07.400
over a little bit and tried it
again. So it's interesting that they couldn't

412
00:33:07.440 --> 00:33:14.160
achieve this oil well right there.
And So to answer your question, I

413
00:33:14.160 --> 00:33:16.720
mean, I just that was a
long winded answer. We've got a lot

414
00:33:16.759 --> 00:33:22.720
of data trying to get in there. But personally I think that there's there's

415
00:33:22.759 --> 00:33:27.559
got to be something a piece of
technology. There's got to be something that's

416
00:33:27.640 --> 00:33:30.119
causing all that. I don't know, is the honest answer. You know,

417
00:33:30.160 --> 00:33:34.640
the metal makes me think maybe there's
an ancient spaceship or something in there,

418
00:33:34.640 --> 00:33:39.319
but I don't know, maybe got
a crash site. Well, I

419
00:33:39.319 --> 00:33:45.240
mean, it's hard not to go
there because all the other so you're looking,

420
00:33:45.279 --> 00:33:49.480
you're like, we know there wasn't. I would imagine if there's any

421
00:33:49.519 --> 00:33:52.960
mining in the nineteen hundreds, it
would have shown up on those first photographs,

422
00:33:52.960 --> 00:33:55.599
and they're just there's no sign of
any tailings, there's no sign of

423
00:33:55.640 --> 00:33:59.960
any roads in there. Out of
the maze that there's no signs to suggest

424
00:34:00.079 --> 00:34:04.640
there's mining. So then that puts
us into the eighteen hundreds and you look

425
00:34:04.640 --> 00:34:07.679
at the metal there and you're like, I don't know, did we have

426
00:34:07.800 --> 00:34:12.000
technology back in the eighteen hundreds to
forge metal like that. I mean,

427
00:34:12.000 --> 00:34:16.239
we're talking about metal that is the
width of card stock, that's different materials

428
00:34:16.280 --> 00:34:20.719
on one side than it is on
the other, and is so uniform.

429
00:34:21.280 --> 00:34:23.679
And we didn't just pull out one
piece. We brought out a lot of

430
00:34:23.719 --> 00:34:27.800
pieces. I mean we got we
got a ziploc bag of this stuff.

431
00:34:28.360 --> 00:34:32.079
Uh, and it's so uniform and
so perfect that you look and you're like,

432
00:34:32.199 --> 00:34:36.519
what, what could be three hundred
feet inside that mesa that has that

433
00:34:36.760 --> 00:34:42.320
so uh, you do say,
maybe maybe it is a crash site.

434
00:34:43.440 --> 00:34:46.519
I mean, maybe the conductive soil
one of these uh, you know,

435
00:34:46.559 --> 00:34:51.239
trans medium craft went into the mason
We've got We've got so many stories of

436
00:34:51.239 --> 00:34:53.320
the mesa opening up and craft flying
in and out of it. And when

437
00:34:53.360 --> 00:34:57.480
I say stories, I've talked about
people that were in the Big Low era

438
00:34:57.599 --> 00:35:00.800
that were on the ranch as well
as I have interview neighbors are surrounding properties

439
00:35:00.800 --> 00:35:06.079
that are there today and people that
lived there back in the eighties who tell

440
00:35:06.159 --> 00:35:08.519
me they sat out on their porch
and watched things fly in and out of

441
00:35:08.519 --> 00:35:14.480
the MESA, and these are people
that seem really well grounded, very credible.

442
00:35:14.880 --> 00:35:16.559
So when you start thinking about that, you're like, well, maybe

443
00:35:16.559 --> 00:35:20.880
if there's something like that, that, if there's some truth to that,

444
00:35:21.320 --> 00:35:25.039
maybe they got into that conductive soil
jammed their instrumentation, they got stuck in

445
00:35:25.079 --> 00:35:30.440
there. I mean, your guess
is as good as mine. That was

446
00:35:30.480 --> 00:35:36.679
a great answer, very comprehensive.
Thank you. And for the last question,

447
00:35:37.000 --> 00:35:43.400
is our research or Courtney connected?
Okay, so I'm not sure how

448
00:35:43.519 --> 00:35:45.599
up to date you are on this
or not, so you can just say

449
00:35:45.880 --> 00:35:49.400
no, not, and then I'll
go to my second question real quick.

450
00:35:49.920 --> 00:35:57.719
Have you gone through Jim Sigala's slides
or anything from the Moupas research study?

451
00:35:57.800 --> 00:36:00.079
Yes? Okay, So one of
the things I noticed when I looked at

452
00:36:00.079 --> 00:36:05.880
the data, that was twenty two
times the gamma in the sensor data,

453
00:36:05.920 --> 00:36:08.119
in the in the in the studies, in the participants. Have you seen

454
00:36:08.199 --> 00:36:13.239
readings like that on Skinwalker too?
Because I know the sample size or the

455
00:36:14.000 --> 00:36:17.159
or the participants were part of Skinwalker
Ranch. So I'm just wondering if you

456
00:36:17.159 --> 00:36:22.039
were able to correlate at all these
individuals and these gamma signatures and these gamma

457
00:36:22.119 --> 00:36:28.360
sensors with the ranch locations. Well, I'll just I'll preface it by this.

458
00:36:29.519 --> 00:36:37.280
I consider Jim a good friend.
We worked with him, but I

459
00:36:37.360 --> 00:36:39.639
don't know, like, I don't
know enough about his sensor package to know

460
00:36:39.679 --> 00:36:45.159
how it's put together. So I
without being able to speak to the validity

461
00:36:45.159 --> 00:36:46.880
of the sensor itself, it's hard
to say. Here's what I'll tell you.

462
00:36:47.320 --> 00:36:53.599
We have seen very enormous readings similar
to what he's seen. But the

463
00:36:53.639 --> 00:36:57.639
problem that we're having as a team
and I don't I can't speak to him

464
00:36:57.679 --> 00:37:00.800
because I don't know what he's done
on his sense. The problem is is,

465
00:37:00.880 --> 00:37:04.920
let's talk about gamma rays. We
get the gamma ray hit. Are

466
00:37:04.920 --> 00:37:10.119
we actually seeing gamma ray hits or
are we seeing electromagnetic interference with the with

467
00:37:10.239 --> 00:37:15.119
the circuitry itself that's spoofing it and
making it think that it's seeing that,

468
00:37:15.599 --> 00:37:20.519
but it's not actually seeing gamma rays. It's seeing it's seeing an interference in

469
00:37:20.559 --> 00:37:25.519
the circuitry. Does that make sense? Like? Yes, So we you

470
00:37:25.559 --> 00:37:30.679
know, we've tried different experiments of
trying to put like these sensors, like

471
00:37:30.719 --> 00:37:35.599
these gamma rays sensors UH in a
Faraday cage to try to block out the

472
00:37:35.760 --> 00:37:40.440
MF so that we could tell whether
it's truly gamma or not. And as

473
00:37:40.480 --> 00:37:45.079
of right now, I'm going to
just say that I think it's still up

474
00:37:45.079 --> 00:37:49.000
in the air with us. We
still can't discern whether it's E MF or

475
00:37:49.039 --> 00:37:53.119
if it's actually gamma. So how
about in the ground, did you bury

476
00:37:53.159 --> 00:37:57.119
it down into the ground, because
and he was talking about it around people's

477
00:37:57.159 --> 00:37:59.480
homes. He was saying they could
be buried down into the ground to a

478
00:37:59.519 --> 00:38:01.239
certain amout on the feet and it
was pretty deep. So just to follow

479
00:38:01.320 --> 00:38:07.519
up quick, what what exactly on
that? What what exact measurement or reading

480
00:38:07.559 --> 00:38:10.199
are we talking about? Are we
talking about gammas? Are we talking about

481
00:38:10.920 --> 00:38:15.440
UH like RF? Are we talking
groundsonic? He went into it. He

482
00:38:15.480 --> 00:38:20.239
did multi sensor, but he did
say specifically that they buried the gamma down

483
00:38:20.280 --> 00:38:22.360
into the ground. So that was
the only reason why I asked it,

484
00:38:22.400 --> 00:38:24.920
if you guys have done that as
one of your test measures test measures?

485
00:38:25.599 --> 00:38:29.320
Yeah, I don't know. I
mean, we've got we do have a

486
00:38:29.360 --> 00:38:37.119
couple different subsurface places that we have
instrumentation. We have one that's called Uh,

487
00:38:37.280 --> 00:38:42.840
We've got the Satan's pit that's out
in the field. That's blow surface.

488
00:38:43.760 --> 00:38:49.440
Eric's got its sentinel assignment, telemetry
and notification system. It's an acronym,

489
00:38:49.480 --> 00:38:52.679
but it's at The acronym is Satan
and it's and it monitors below ground.

490
00:38:52.679 --> 00:38:58.639
And Eric has a multiple sensors,
the infrasonic. I don't know though,

491
00:38:58.800 --> 00:39:04.079
Like I'm not a scientist. I
can't speak to that. I the

492
00:39:04.119 --> 00:39:06.960
gamma rays in the ground is that. I don't know what to say about

493
00:39:06.960 --> 00:39:12.840
that. So I'll just have to
pass. I'm not knowledgeable enough to speak

494
00:39:12.880 --> 00:39:15.840
intelligently on it. How about that? No problem? I was going to

495
00:39:15.880 --> 00:39:21.159
say, that was a great question, Courtney and Thomas. It just really

496
00:39:21.199 --> 00:39:24.280
amazing, Like I alluded to earlier, that you've gone from ranch hand to

497
00:39:24.400 --> 00:39:30.119
ranch manager to associate scientist and that
must be something very powerful, you know,

498
00:39:30.320 --> 00:39:34.360
just in your everyday life when you're
talking with people and they're like,

499
00:39:34.400 --> 00:39:37.880
wow, man, Thomas has a
lot about science, you know, and

500
00:39:37.880 --> 00:39:42.960
how to take measurements and evaluate results. And so I congratulations to you on

501
00:39:43.119 --> 00:39:45.719
just that sort of you know,
evolution of yourself. I'm sure we would

502
00:39:45.719 --> 00:39:50.960
all love to, you know,
have that opportunity to to learn about science

503
00:39:50.960 --> 00:39:55.239
and and uh and be able to
have that knowledge so awesome. Uh.

504
00:39:55.360 --> 00:39:59.880
The last thing I'm just gonna say
it just it's sort of a yes or.

505
00:40:00.280 --> 00:40:02.800
But what I was thinking about before
is, at one point, you

506
00:40:02.840 --> 00:40:08.840
guys did some sort of an experiment
and Eric went back into the command center

507
00:40:09.159 --> 00:40:16.199
and there was something on the screen
that was looked like the phenomenon projected something

508
00:40:16.239 --> 00:40:22.679
onto the screen. Do you remember
that or am I imagining that? Sure

509
00:40:22.719 --> 00:40:27.400
exactly which incident you're talking about?
Yeah, I'm not sure that was the

510
00:40:27.800 --> 00:40:34.400
living incident. Right. Oh,
thank you God, bless you so.

511
00:40:35.159 --> 00:40:42.559
Uh. I believe Eric. That's
a long story. It's it is incredible,

512
00:40:42.920 --> 00:40:46.239
but I'll tell you this. Eric
has shared that story several times.

513
00:40:46.239 --> 00:40:53.880
I believe. We have the Skinwalker
Ranch Insider's page. It's a it's a

514
00:40:53.880 --> 00:41:00.480
subscription based platform, but it gives
those that are really enthusiastic about our investigation

515
00:41:00.519 --> 00:41:06.679
the opportunity to get behind the scenes
and more data and more. And Eric

516
00:41:06.719 --> 00:41:09.400
has shared that in there. So
for those individuals that are interested in that,

517
00:41:10.079 --> 00:41:15.079
they could go to that go to
our Skinwalker dash ranch dot com and

518
00:41:15.119 --> 00:41:20.000
sign up being an insider and the
other insiders will direct them on where that's

519
00:41:20.000 --> 00:41:22.519
at. Eric tells that story goes
in length on it. It's incredible.

520
00:41:23.760 --> 00:41:28.719
It still gives me chills to this
day to hear him tell it. It's

521
00:41:28.760 --> 00:41:31.800
got to be one of the most
mind blowing things that's happened at the Ranch.

522
00:41:31.880 --> 00:41:36.880
That's irrefutable is how that writing got
there, you know, but that

523
00:41:37.199 --> 00:41:39.039
we don't need to take it down. That all. We're talking about the

524
00:41:39.079 --> 00:41:45.639
Secrets of Skinwalker Ranch on History Channel, debuting tonight at ten Eastern nine Center.

525
00:41:46.719 --> 00:41:51.840
So, Thomas, we're gonna go
with Kabby goodbyes, and then we're

526
00:41:51.840 --> 00:41:55.239
gonna continue the show and just talk
about stuff and how much fun this was,

527
00:41:55.280 --> 00:41:58.880
and we're gonna let you go,
but let's start with Courtney. Please,

528
00:41:59.280 --> 00:42:02.280
Cabby goodbyes. Hey, Thomas,
thanks for being willing to feel my

529
00:42:02.519 --> 00:42:07.400
difficult questions, and good luck with
the next season. Good luck with your

530
00:42:07.440 --> 00:42:09.159
health. It was so nice to
be able to meet you here tonight and

531
00:42:09.199 --> 00:42:14.679
to ask you some of those questions. Good luck. Thank you. Debs.

532
00:42:19.199 --> 00:42:23.400
The mute button is uh oh,
Deb's gone mute, Nathan, we

533
00:42:23.400 --> 00:42:25.880
can come back to Debs. Oh, I'm here, I'm here, Okay,

534
00:42:27.079 --> 00:42:30.039
Sorry, I didn't realize I was
still muted because I go from the

535
00:42:30.079 --> 00:42:36.079
mic. So I'm going to pull
out some of my old research into the

536
00:42:36.119 --> 00:42:43.159
medical things and recommend that you google
Brad Moss, who did an ah I

537
00:42:43.239 --> 00:42:50.280
at Foyer and it's very in depth
about what is happening with what is commonly

538
00:42:50.320 --> 00:42:53.960
known as Havana syndrome and how it
impacts people. And it's one of the

539
00:42:54.039 --> 00:43:00.119
most detailed documents. I just googled
it and something called Salon dot com has

540
00:43:00.159 --> 00:43:04.199
it out there for some reason.
I don't know why that's where it ended

541
00:43:04.360 --> 00:43:07.800
up, but it's out there.
The foya is available to the public if

542
00:43:07.880 --> 00:43:14.079
anyone wants to learn more about HI. And of course I'm mentioning this because

543
00:43:15.039 --> 00:43:17.599
all my heart's going out to you
for dealing with that, Frankly, and

544
00:43:17.679 --> 00:43:22.679
thank you so much for talking to
us about that and everything else. Well,

545
00:43:22.679 --> 00:43:27.480
thank you. I appreciate you sharing
that with me. Yeah, we

546
00:43:27.559 --> 00:43:30.719
can send that to Thank you to
Kirby Dixon of History Channel. Thank you,

547
00:43:30.800 --> 00:43:35.519
Kirby, ma'am for setting this all
up with Thomas. We really appreciate

548
00:43:35.519 --> 00:43:39.639
it. It was so much fun. And we will send that foya to

549
00:43:39.920 --> 00:43:44.760
Kirby so she can forward it to
you and money Nathan. Yeah, Thomas,

550
00:43:44.880 --> 00:43:47.119
A huge pleasure to have you with
us. Big fan of the show,

551
00:43:47.159 --> 00:43:51.400
watched every season, really rooting for
you guys to get to the bottom

552
00:43:51.440 --> 00:43:53.639
of this and know nobody wants to
know the answer more than you do as

553
00:43:53.679 --> 00:43:57.760
to what's going on out there.
And I hope you guys get some answers

554
00:43:57.800 --> 00:44:00.719
soon. So best of luck with
season five and hopefully we'll get a chance

555
00:44:00.760 --> 00:44:04.559
to talk to you again in the
future. So thanks again for joining us.

556
00:44:05.840 --> 00:44:08.400
Thank you. Yeah, I'd love
to come back. Oh yeah,

557
00:44:08.480 --> 00:44:10.960
definitely, we would love to have
you back. I want to thank you

558
00:44:12.000 --> 00:44:15.599
Thomas for all the obvious hard work. I'll never forget. It looked like

559
00:44:15.679 --> 00:44:21.840
you were just like sweating bullets when
you were trying to drill horizontally into the

560
00:44:21.880 --> 00:44:24.760
Mason trying to get you know,
keep everything together and get get some of

561
00:44:24.760 --> 00:44:29.360
the samples out, and and all
your hard work that you've done on the

562
00:44:29.440 --> 00:44:34.559
ranch, and also you know,
the sort of development of your science base

563
00:44:34.679 --> 00:44:37.760
to be able to assist to you
and Dragon and everybody else has gotten involved.

564
00:44:37.880 --> 00:44:42.320
It's very impressive and thank you so
much for your time, and we'll

565
00:44:42.400 --> 00:44:45.000
definitely like to host you on cab
again, so now must day. Thank

566
00:44:45.039 --> 00:44:50.480
you very much. It sounds good. Thanks guys, appreciate it all right,

567
00:44:50.599 --> 00:45:00.119
bye, Thomas, take care all
right, guys. Great job,

568
00:45:00.199 --> 00:45:04.000
Kaby, Yeah, very good stuff. I love talking to that guy.

569
00:45:04.400 --> 00:45:07.719
Very knowledgeable. Awesome. Yeah,
I mean you could tell, man.

570
00:45:07.760 --> 00:45:13.480
I mean like he obviously had to
get himself into a position where he would

571
00:45:13.599 --> 00:45:19.280
understand what Eric and Travis are talking
about to be able to go and execute

572
00:45:19.280 --> 00:45:22.360
these experiments and not look like a
meathead, which is what I would look

573
00:45:22.400 --> 00:45:27.119
like if I were out in the
ranch. And that's a process, you

574
00:45:27.159 --> 00:45:32.039
know, that's not something that that
just happens. Yeah. One, And

575
00:45:32.639 --> 00:45:37.000
when you have a kind of personal
stake in it like he does. This

576
00:45:37.119 --> 00:45:40.320
is not just somebody that is showing
up to get a paycheck. He's been

577
00:45:40.400 --> 00:45:45.079
personally impacted by the activity there at
the ranch, and I think he wants

578
00:45:45.119 --> 00:45:51.639
answers understand what happened to him.
And I think it's incredible that he had

579
00:45:51.679 --> 00:45:59.639
such a life threatening medical experience an
emergency level, which was obviously addressed after

580
00:45:59.679 --> 00:46:01.360
it happen, but that he came
back. I always thought that was profound

581
00:46:01.400 --> 00:46:06.559
that he came back, kept working
and so I wonder what part of that

582
00:46:06.679 --> 00:46:08.880
is, like an insatiable desire to
try to understand what happened, But to

583
00:46:08.920 --> 00:46:14.000
be able to arm yourself after having
that experience and coming back to the ranch

584
00:46:14.079 --> 00:46:19.960
is pretty impressive, and that's pretty
courageous. I feel like what I'm seeing

585
00:46:20.639 --> 00:46:24.880
or what I feel is that this
is not just dudes that are thrown together

586
00:46:24.960 --> 00:46:29.559
to do a TV show or dudes
that are local in the area. I

587
00:46:29.599 --> 00:46:35.400
believe Brandon treats them like family.
He has referred I've heard him refer to

588
00:46:35.400 --> 00:46:39.119
them as family. I've heard him
talk about his many years relationship with the

589
00:46:39.239 --> 00:46:44.920
Dragon, and I believe that's what
brought him back more so than the science

590
00:46:45.039 --> 00:46:47.880
or wanting to know about the ranch. I believe they feel like they're a

591
00:46:47.920 --> 00:46:52.039
family unit. And the real difficult
part was when you bring in this outlier

592
00:46:52.400 --> 00:46:57.880
in Travis Taylor, and I'm sure
there was a I'm sure they give each

593
00:46:57.920 --> 00:47:00.760
other crap. You know, you've
you've heard Dragon do it. And I

594
00:47:00.800 --> 00:47:07.239
think he had to earn their trust
to become one of them because they had

595
00:47:07.239 --> 00:47:10.039
already been there and experiences. So
that that's my feeling. But Debs,

596
00:47:10.239 --> 00:47:15.960
what's your take? Man, I've
got to meet Brandon in New York,

597
00:47:15.159 --> 00:47:21.760
and he was just a gentleman and
very nice and very genuine. I feel

598
00:47:21.760 --> 00:47:27.960
like he not only really is curious
about the phenomenon, but he really cares

599
00:47:27.960 --> 00:47:31.719
about what's happening on the ranch.
And he's very concerned about his people.

600
00:47:32.400 --> 00:47:37.960
And he's always very quick to like
try to encourage safety and caution if there's

601
00:47:38.000 --> 00:47:42.760
something that you know is a little
dangerous. So he's a good man.

602
00:47:42.840 --> 00:47:46.519
He's a good leader for them,
and they have a lot of good leaders

603
00:47:46.719 --> 00:47:51.800
working on this project. So I
got to give them all props. And

604
00:47:51.920 --> 00:47:55.880
speaking of props, Brandon has some
of the best props. I don't know

605
00:47:55.920 --> 00:48:04.360
if y'all seen his office, like
in some of the interviews I so,

606
00:48:04.559 --> 00:48:08.559
I feel like like he earned a
lot of like respect points from me for

607
00:48:08.719 --> 00:48:15.039
some of those. I gotta say, Yeah, he's a gen He's that

608
00:48:15.320 --> 00:48:19.719
is a guy that you talk about
leadership, that's a guy who's a great

609
00:48:19.760 --> 00:48:23.000
leader. I would I'd gladly go
out there and follow that guy's lead because

610
00:48:23.039 --> 00:48:27.199
I know that he was going to
care about me. And there's a sort

611
00:48:27.199 --> 00:48:30.679
of saying it's not only in the
military, but we did use it.

612
00:48:30.719 --> 00:48:35.400
But it's also outside the military.
People don't care how much you know until

613
00:48:35.440 --> 00:48:38.480
they know how much you care.
If they know you care genuinely about them,

614
00:48:39.039 --> 00:48:43.920
then they'll want to follow your lead
in some case. I mean,

615
00:48:43.960 --> 00:48:46.960
there's more to leadership than just that. But uh, if they just think

616
00:48:47.000 --> 00:48:52.000
you're just a stepping stone for them
to get what they want, then they're

617
00:48:52.039 --> 00:48:55.960
going to do the least amount possible
that they can. Uh, you know,

618
00:48:57.119 --> 00:49:00.679
in in whatever endeavor that that you're
trying to him up on. And

619
00:49:00.719 --> 00:49:04.840
he's done an outstanding job. Well, I have a question for everyone.

620
00:49:05.119 --> 00:49:10.239
If you don't mind, would you
go to the ranch? Oh? Yeah,

621
00:49:10.480 --> 00:49:14.159
I was going to ask the same
question. I was going to ask

622
00:49:14.199 --> 00:49:16.960
the same sad question, Nathan.
Is that a question? I mean I'd

623
00:49:16.960 --> 00:49:22.559
go absolutely, Oh you wouldn't even
nobody here? What has your teammates here?

624
00:49:22.639 --> 00:49:25.280
I mean, nobody here is hesitating. We're going to the ranch,

625
00:49:25.480 --> 00:49:29.360
all right, and because we feel
like our intention is going to carry the

626
00:49:29.440 --> 00:49:32.360
day. Yeah, we didn't get
to ask about intention. I really wish

627
00:49:32.440 --> 00:49:37.280
we had gotten to because a lot
of people say that that's a big part

628
00:49:37.280 --> 00:49:40.559
of it, and like, my
intention would be one hundred percent to go

629
00:49:40.639 --> 00:49:45.599
out there and try to communicate with
whatever's going on. Yeah, I mean

630
00:49:45.599 --> 00:49:50.119
that's why I asked him that question, and I was sure that he had

631
00:49:50.800 --> 00:49:54.440
and if something had tried to communicate
with him, that might not be comfortable

632
00:49:54.480 --> 00:50:00.360
to share something like that maybe right
in that community, Nathan that Yeah.

633
00:50:00.400 --> 00:50:04.039
I mean, look, I think
we're talking about something really important about this

634
00:50:04.119 --> 00:50:07.960
show. It's got heart, you
know, it's it's a scientific it's really

635
00:50:07.000 --> 00:50:13.719
trying hard to deliver scientific data and
results. But you can clearly see that

636
00:50:13.840 --> 00:50:17.039
this team has a lot of heart
for the project, hard for each other.

637
00:50:17.760 --> 00:50:22.519
It's a it's it's a dynamic thing. It's not a very like flat

638
00:50:22.920 --> 00:50:28.840
just laboratory and let me get this
data. Let me and this is challenging

639
00:50:28.880 --> 00:50:30.400
too. And we've all, I
know, everybody on the show here can

640
00:50:30.679 --> 00:50:36.199
understand this, that there's this demand
for data, this strong demand for data,

641
00:50:36.239 --> 00:50:40.119
this data that we can replicate in
the laboratory environment, we can so

642
00:50:40.199 --> 00:50:45.480
we can prove something is there.
But we also really familiar with many accounts

643
00:50:45.480 --> 00:50:52.800
of individuals that really seem to defy
the kind of standard data collection that our

644
00:50:52.280 --> 00:50:57.800
science, you know, sort of
expects. And so you've got this strange

645
00:50:57.880 --> 00:51:01.719
dichotomy. You really can't have a
I don't think six Skinwalkers the Secret Skinwalker

646
00:51:01.800 --> 00:51:07.760
Ranch has established itself itself as a
show that is going to have an episode

647
00:51:07.800 --> 00:51:12.639
showing Thomas Winterton, you know,
talking to the ranch. But clearly that's

648
00:51:12.639 --> 00:51:17.039
a dynamic at work on the ranch
itself that I would not be surprised.

649
00:51:17.159 --> 00:51:21.159
I don't think any of us would
be surprised if every team member there has

650
00:51:21.199 --> 00:51:25.159
had some sort of quote unquote WU
experience related to the ranch. That is,

651
00:51:25.519 --> 00:51:31.360
it doesn't fall neatly into that data
scientific experiment bucket. And I think

652
00:51:31.360 --> 00:51:35.519
that's a real challenge, right,
This is the challenge that is in front

653
00:51:35.559 --> 00:51:38.079
of us, Like, if it
doesn't conform to our paradigm of collection,

654
00:51:38.679 --> 00:51:46.360
then it's not real. And clearly
whatever this is seemingly is kind of demanding

655
00:51:46.440 --> 00:51:51.800
us to widen our expectations and you
know, change the paradigm that we're even

656
00:51:51.920 --> 00:51:54.760
using to try to understand it.
And that's a huge challenge. I have

657
00:51:54.920 --> 00:51:58.639
something to share in add on to
that, Oh, go ahead, deb

658
00:51:59.199 --> 00:52:02.599
Yeah, I just want to throw
out there also that people really misunderstand scientists

659
00:52:02.679 --> 00:52:09.480
anyway, like they always envisioned something
very sterile that people lose their humanity scientists

660
00:52:09.559 --> 00:52:13.639
that they're just like all by the
numbers, and you know, like that's

661
00:52:13.679 --> 00:52:17.360
not what a scientist is. They're
real people trying to figure something out,

662
00:52:19.360 --> 00:52:23.639
working hopefully with the hypothesis, and
trying to find evidence for it. And

663
00:52:24.000 --> 00:52:29.880
yeah, so that's that's all I
wanted to say about that. So I

664
00:52:29.920 --> 00:52:32.800
was just going to say I met
with somebody recently, you know, involved

665
00:52:32.840 --> 00:52:35.880
with the task force, and he
said that, you know, he had

666
00:52:35.920 --> 00:52:40.079
the opportunity to take people out to
Skinwalker Ranch and he sat around and asked

667
00:52:40.159 --> 00:52:45.639
all these different people who had been
out there, you know, how many

668
00:52:45.679 --> 00:52:51.559
people have had the hitchhiker effect?
And everybody raised their hand. Everybody raised

669
00:52:51.599 --> 00:52:54.480
their hand, which I was astonished
that. I was just astonished by that.

670
00:52:54.519 --> 00:52:58.119
I was thinking maybe one percent,
maybe five percent, but it was

671
00:52:58.280 --> 00:53:02.440
unilateral. So that's how something.
What do you think of a hitchhiker affect,

672
00:53:02.559 --> 00:53:06.800
Nathan? What what do you think
is going on there? Yeah,

673
00:53:07.039 --> 00:53:08.880
it's I mean, I think there's
a lot of things going on there.

674
00:53:09.000 --> 00:53:19.760
I think it's it's not purely psychological, it's not it's sort of purely like

675
00:53:19.840 --> 00:53:22.960
hard science and rational, like it's
somebody that's like some sort of chemical like

676
00:53:23.000 --> 00:53:29.559
that. I think it's a much
more dynamic. I hate I hate the

677
00:53:29.559 --> 00:53:32.239
way that it sounds because it sounds
so mysterious and elusive like, and we

678
00:53:32.239 --> 00:53:37.079
were being giving it kind of a
boogey Man type of name, this Hitchhiker

679
00:53:37.119 --> 00:53:40.039
effect, and you know, it
has it concox all these strange theories.

680
00:53:40.079 --> 00:53:46.000
But you know, from what we
seem to be knowing or learning about ways

681
00:53:46.039 --> 00:53:51.119
in which uh, you know,
sort of objects are connected to it to

682
00:53:51.119 --> 00:53:54.679
one another, that that we might
be connected to one another absence of distance,

683
00:53:54.800 --> 00:54:00.639
like the non local connection between information, then you know, Hitchhiker effect

684
00:54:00.639 --> 00:54:05.480
could very well be something that that
is akin to that some sort of you

685
00:54:05.480 --> 00:54:10.280
know, kind of coupling of of
effects from one place that are that are

686
00:54:10.320 --> 00:54:14.960
then coupled somehow entwined or entangled if
we want to use that you know,

687
00:54:15.039 --> 00:54:19.719
kind of quantum language to this individual
regardless of where they happen to be.

688
00:54:21.440 --> 00:54:23.760
And then there's also you know where
I think we brought it up on the

689
00:54:23.760 --> 00:54:27.320
show before, but it's been probably
quite some time. There's something called the

690
00:54:27.360 --> 00:54:31.119
Philip experiment, where there's like this
group of people that basically get together and

691
00:54:31.199 --> 00:54:37.239
they they collectively they come up with
this character named Philip, and then they

692
00:54:37.320 --> 00:54:40.400
kind of imagine what this character is
like, and then and they try to

693
00:54:40.440 --> 00:54:45.920
communicate with it in there, and
then they independently start getting information from this

694
00:54:45.400 --> 00:54:51.880
character that they concocted. So there's
something about uh, I think what that

695
00:54:51.960 --> 00:54:58.000
says. There's something about group intention, there's something about the collection of minds

696
00:54:58.000 --> 00:55:01.760
and will and inner you focus.
That that is, you know, kind

697
00:55:01.760 --> 00:55:07.360
of tied into this what we would
call the Hitchhiker effect. I don't think

698
00:55:07.360 --> 00:55:09.280
we understand it at all, but
you know, clearly it seems to be

699
00:55:09.719 --> 00:55:16.800
at play. Could you conceive of
it possibly being energy that projects as a

700
00:55:17.079 --> 00:55:22.840
result of your physical presence in this
area, projects itself into you and then

701
00:55:22.880 --> 00:55:27.239
when you leave, it remains into
you and which makes people feel ill and

702
00:55:27.280 --> 00:55:30.800
then dissipates. Do you think it's
it's an energy? Yeah, I mean

703
00:55:30.800 --> 00:55:32.760
that's I don't know. I mean, I don't have a good answer for

704
00:55:32.800 --> 00:55:37.920
that, because you know, it
partly speaks to like what are we?

705
00:55:37.360 --> 00:55:42.000
Right? I think that that's that's
the big mystery here, is like what

706
00:55:42.159 --> 00:55:47.159
are we that that even allows and
enables effects like this to occur? So

707
00:55:47.719 --> 00:55:52.000
when I look at you, you
know, Courtney deb whatever I'm seeing,

708
00:55:52.119 --> 00:55:54.760
you know, what I see.
But but how much of you is not

709
00:55:54.800 --> 00:55:59.280
what I see? You know?
How much of you extends beyond just what

710
00:55:59.320 --> 00:56:04.239
I'm seeing now and into some other
realm, some other dimensional space. And

711
00:56:04.360 --> 00:56:07.280
we use these words because we don't
really have good words for that. But

712
00:56:07.679 --> 00:56:14.320
how har does our presence truly extend? And you know, maybe some of

713
00:56:14.360 --> 00:56:17.559
these places, you know, a
lot of our ancient cultures know kind of

714
00:56:17.559 --> 00:56:21.800
call them at these places like thin
places, and I think in the in

715
00:56:21.840 --> 00:56:25.320
the Celtic tradition, you know,
they're called thin places where the boundary between

716
00:56:25.679 --> 00:56:30.239
you know, the waking world and
the spirit world is very very thin.

717
00:56:30.440 --> 00:56:34.559
There's this overlap, this kind of
collapsing that occurs. And that's again it's

718
00:56:34.559 --> 00:56:38.480
just a placeholder language to explain a
kind of phenomena that they experience that we

719
00:56:38.519 --> 00:56:44.840
would now call something like a hitchhiker
effect or something like paranormal experience that is

720
00:56:45.639 --> 00:56:50.320
extra normal than what we experience in
our day to day waking states. Or

721
00:56:50.559 --> 00:56:53.519
is it like those rice paper doors
in the Japanese homes, you know that

722
00:56:53.639 --> 00:57:00.199
where you slide the I mean you
saw a showgun the original anyway, Courtney,

723
00:57:00.239 --> 00:57:04.719
are we energy or are we something? Well, you know, I've

724
00:57:04.760 --> 00:57:08.199
studied a lot of different energy you
know, modalities and complementary mental health,

725
00:57:08.239 --> 00:57:13.360
and so I definitely ascribe to the
energy models, don't. I don't think

726
00:57:13.400 --> 00:57:15.519
that it's always just one. But
I think when you do, you know,

727
00:57:15.559 --> 00:57:21.280
submerse yourself in those practices, you
can feel it. You can feel

728
00:57:21.280 --> 00:57:23.960
it embodied within your body, which
is like a feult sense, and so

729
00:57:24.039 --> 00:57:29.039
it doesn't go into all the descriptions
you know of you know how consciousness,

730
00:57:29.519 --> 00:57:31.199
you know, feels that it's a
felt sense. And so yeah, just

731
00:57:31.199 --> 00:57:36.760
because of my own subjective experience and
teachings in those studies, I definitely think

732
00:57:36.920 --> 00:57:42.159
energy is a big part of it
and consciousness together linked deb so that that

733
00:57:42.480 --> 00:57:45.840
sort of aura that people bring with
them into the room and you can feel

734
00:57:45.880 --> 00:57:51.719
it when they enter, and it
could also you know, form why there's

735
00:57:51.760 --> 00:57:54.639
sort of a connection with some of
these places. How do you like to

736
00:57:54.679 --> 00:57:59.159
refer to that last comment? And
then we're going to get out of here,

737
00:57:59.199 --> 00:58:04.639
but go ahead, Well, scientists
call that the biofield malet. It's

738
00:58:04.639 --> 00:58:08.360
had a lot of different names,
she chakra, you know, other names

739
00:58:08.480 --> 00:58:14.320
of ethereal energy, you know,
the people talk about it. I can

740
00:58:14.840 --> 00:58:20.840
sense the energy within my body and
if you think about it, basically are

741
00:58:20.920 --> 00:58:25.679
very electrical beings, water which is
a conduit, and electricity, and you

742
00:58:25.679 --> 00:58:30.760
can see some of our energy,
the thermal energy, you know, with

743
00:58:30.840 --> 00:58:37.559
like thermal goggles and stuff like that, you can sense the temperature from another

744
00:58:37.639 --> 00:58:42.679
person, you know, like there's
different ways that energy forms. The spectrum's

745
00:58:42.719 --> 00:58:49.559
pretty vast. But I have a
different perspective on a hitchhiker, please man.

746
00:58:50.360 --> 00:58:57.599
Well, Colm keller Heer and Kit
Green were studying hitchhiker and they talk

747
00:58:57.639 --> 00:59:04.000
about it as if it were a
contagion, which leads me to another aspect

748
00:59:04.079 --> 00:59:09.679
that it might not be. It
might be something I just haven't been able

749
00:59:09.719 --> 00:59:15.159
to explain yet that is a little
bit like. Okay, So I was

750
00:59:15.199 --> 00:59:22.360
watching the movie or the show about
some of the meltdowns that have happened with

751
00:59:22.480 --> 00:59:27.840
radiation, and I found out that
radiation is contagious, Like you can go

752
00:59:27.960 --> 00:59:32.719
up to someone who's been irradiated and
become irradiated yourself, and when you are

753
00:59:32.920 --> 00:59:42.039
irradiated, you can have symptoms like
schizophrenia when you are extremely irradiated. So

754
00:59:42.639 --> 00:59:46.760
My thought is this might be a
different form of something like a radiation exposure,

755
00:59:47.639 --> 00:59:52.280
and that's why I kind of lean
towards their contagion model with it.

756
00:59:52.760 --> 00:59:58.400
And we just don't fully understand what
it is yet. Damn everyone knows that

757
00:59:58.400 --> 01:00:01.199
that's how Godzilla can make that blue
flame come out of his mouth. I

758
01:00:01.199 --> 01:00:07.960
mean, this is nothing new,
that's true. It's also actually the story

759
01:00:07.039 --> 01:00:12.880
about how the Japanese comic Ultraman came
about. Yeah, there you go,

760
01:00:12.960 --> 01:00:21.519
there's precedents here deb Ultraman. All
right, all right, yeah, I'm

761
01:00:21.519 --> 01:00:24.719
just trying to make us all X
men basically, way to finish it off,

762
01:00:24.760 --> 01:00:30.360
and it doesn't Spider Man, I
don't know if anyway, Man,

763
01:00:30.519 --> 01:00:34.920
that was so much fun. So
tomorrow night we have Sean Munger. He

764
01:00:35.119 --> 01:00:42.880
is Bob plisk Snake zero nine or
Bob Pliskin on on Twitter. He is

765
01:00:43.039 --> 01:00:51.360
a government lawyer. He is also
available to represent whistleblower types that would like

766
01:00:51.440 --> 01:00:55.960
to come out consult with him.
And there's a team of maybe a dozen

767
01:00:57.119 --> 01:01:02.360
lawyers I think he said that are
in this arena and he's one of them.

768
01:01:02.559 --> 01:01:08.719
Former Marine Corps enlisted who went and
got his degree in law and did

769
01:01:08.719 --> 01:01:15.239
the damn thing and became a lawyer. And he is a staunch advocate.

770
01:01:15.280 --> 01:01:17.440
You know, those of you who
know, like Rob Sheridan, you know,

771
01:01:17.559 --> 01:01:24.719
the Irish disclosure advocate is ferocious.
So Sean Munger is equally ferocious.

772
01:01:24.880 --> 01:01:29.360
He's the American version of that.
And go figure. He lives in Boston.

773
01:01:29.360 --> 01:01:32.400
There's an Ireland connection there. So
we're gonna get to talk to him

774
01:01:32.400 --> 01:01:38.440
tomorrow. He's going to talk about
sort of methodologies of ways people can come

775
01:01:38.480 --> 01:01:45.920
out and disclose and and maybe being
a safer spot and shield yourself a little

776
01:01:45.920 --> 01:01:49.519
bit. And we'll get into that
tomorrow. Courtney. You'll have some things

777
01:01:49.519 --> 01:01:53.159
and we're going to try to,
you know, get everybody calm down,

778
01:01:54.159 --> 01:02:00.079
right, Nathan, from what happened
last weekend when people try to disclose and

779
01:02:00.159 --> 01:02:06.800
write and just kind of you know, everybody, just take a breath.

780
01:02:07.039 --> 01:02:10.960
These people want to tell a story
of what happened to them, and just

781
01:02:12.239 --> 01:02:17.880
calm down and don't freak out because
they're doing it because they want the phenomenon

782
01:02:17.920 --> 01:02:25.320
to be known, just like you. Yeah, looking forward to and I

783
01:02:25.360 --> 01:02:29.800
can't wait to meet Munger. I've
just learned about to Unger. I cannot

784
01:02:29.800 --> 01:02:32.320
wait to meet this guy, and
I missed the last time we had him

785
01:02:32.320 --> 01:02:37.239
on, so I'm excited to and
look, how often do we get to

786
01:02:37.280 --> 01:02:42.199
do a back to back cabbage a
double feature. So exciting week for the

787
01:02:42.199 --> 01:02:45.000
show. Here to to do that. We're back within in the next twenty

788
01:02:45.000 --> 01:02:51.559
four hours. Lots of affairs,
Yes, we got lots of fairs,

789
01:02:51.599 --> 01:02:53.639
and we will thank you so much. You guys were just amazing tonight.

790
01:02:53.679 --> 01:02:58.119
Man. Usually we say this on
our our private chat. We'll do kind

791
01:02:58.119 --> 01:03:02.000
of show debriefs and stuff. You
guys is just we're awesome again. Man,

792
01:03:02.119 --> 01:03:06.960
you killed it so uh and I'm
sorry I ruined it with the granola

793
01:03:07.079 --> 01:03:10.639
question, but CeAl Killer came out
of it. That was nice. That

794
01:03:10.719 --> 01:03:15.599
was nice entree into the whole thing, and I want that sounds great.

795
01:03:17.920 --> 01:03:21.800
Well, I saw one women see
it. I saw one woman see it.

796
01:03:21.880 --> 01:03:24.079
She was like, that is offensive. That is offensive. And I

797
01:03:24.119 --> 01:03:30.039
was like, oh, she didn't
like cereal Killer. Yeah, And I

798
01:03:30.159 --> 01:03:32.360
was totally going with granola. I
mean, I literally one of these guys

799
01:03:32.559 --> 01:03:37.760
who spends you know, five minutes
or ten minutes in front of the that

800
01:03:37.960 --> 01:03:40.920
Island Whole Foods because I have seventy
five different granolas to choose from. It's

801
01:03:40.960 --> 01:03:45.119
too much. And I want to
tell you guys something, When you go

802
01:03:45.199 --> 01:03:49.920
to choose a granola, it's either
gonna be You're either gonna love it or

803
01:03:50.000 --> 01:03:53.800
you're gonna hate it. And it
really is okay, I gotta ask everybody.

804
01:03:53.840 --> 01:03:57.599
This is like the big takeaway.
I gotta know. So you do

805
01:03:57.679 --> 01:04:00.559
you guys do like fruit? Do
you do you do your cranberry or blueberry

806
01:04:00.559 --> 01:04:04.199
and your granola? Are you more
like? No? No? No?

807
01:04:06.880 --> 01:04:14.239
Is it bad that I don't really
eat that big like fruit, nut,

808
01:04:14.599 --> 01:04:17.079
granola, you know, all of
it. But I think some people don't

809
01:04:17.119 --> 01:04:20.840
like the fruit. I think,
honestly, if I had yogurt and it

810
01:04:20.880 --> 01:04:26.239
came with that little thing on the
lid, with like the little the granola

811
01:04:26.320 --> 01:04:30.880
or whatever, then I would eat
it little the sauce, make a little

812
01:04:30.920 --> 01:04:36.960
jem. It's a three year old. I look, I've got some in

813
01:04:38.039 --> 01:04:41.480
the pantry downstairs. There's no fruit
in it. I don't hate fruit in

814
01:04:41.480 --> 01:04:43.719
the granola, but it needs to
be something that I can chew. I

815
01:04:43.760 --> 01:04:45.920
don't like when I get the fruit
in there that's like so hard you feel

816
01:04:45.920 --> 01:04:51.239
like you're gonna break it too.
That's good hard blueberries are not. I'm

817
01:04:51.239 --> 01:04:58.760
not conducive to a good mouth.
Feel folks, you come to calling all

818
01:04:58.840 --> 01:05:05.480
beings to get your We need sponsor
now, all right, Nathan, get

819
01:05:05.559 --> 01:05:13.000
us out of here for Courtney Divs
and Nathan, we will see you tomorrow

820
01:05:13.079 --> 01:05:18.519
night with Seawan Monger's uh Bob pluskin
be here, peace out, one love.

821
01:05:18.760 --> 01:05:23.199
We'll see you down the road.
And we're always wondering what's up around

822
01:05:23.280 --> 01:05:23.599
the Bend.