1 00:00:00,160 --> 00:00:03,759 A lot going on, of course, with well, we had a few 2 00:00:03,759 --> 00:00:08,039 different options we were looking at as far as subjects we can discuss music industry 3 00:00:08,039 --> 00:00:13,640 related, but AI continues to be a major subject. And this story really 4 00:00:13,679 --> 00:00:18,280 caught my attention because this is an issue that I've actually worked on personally in 5 00:00:18,320 --> 00:00:22,559 the past, protecting identities, protecting information, of course, not to this 6 00:00:22,679 --> 00:00:27,359 extent of AI. Yeah, it's an aspect I didn't think about. Well, 7 00:00:27,440 --> 00:00:34,439 yeah, nobody, nobody did until relatively recently. And the way AI 8 00:00:34,560 --> 00:00:37,079 is impacting music. And by the way, this is not part of the 9 00:00:37,159 --> 00:00:40,200 main subject. I've got a story here that I want to look at, 10 00:00:40,200 --> 00:00:46,039 but involving Sony Music Group. But as kind of a side note, I 11 00:00:46,039 --> 00:00:48,200 don't know if I mentioned this at all on the show. I don't think 12 00:00:48,240 --> 00:00:52,039 so, but I posted on social media about this the new Motley Crue song 13 00:00:52,079 --> 00:00:57,439 Dogs of War. There's these There's a website called The Metal Den that started 14 00:00:57,439 --> 00:01:02,520 this that is not necessarily reputable in terms of their sourcing and whatnot, but 15 00:01:02,600 --> 00:01:07,400 they started this. They put out this story claiming that that the song that 16 00:01:07,439 --> 00:01:11,719 Bob Rock, the producer on the song create, actually created the song entirely 17 00:01:11,799 --> 00:01:15,400 out of AI. And that it's Motley Crue isn't even on the actual song. 18 00:01:15,719 --> 00:01:22,280 But I think that's just I don't think that's true. Yeah, it's 19 00:01:22,280 --> 00:01:26,760 notre Yeah, I don't. I don't think it's I don't think it's true. 20 00:01:26,799 --> 00:01:29,840 But it's something that this website put out there and it's been circulating. 21 00:01:30,120 --> 00:01:34,159 There's there's all kinds of stories about there's a story about now. I just 22 00:01:34,239 --> 00:01:40,879 saw that claiming that Scott Stapp, formerly of Creed, actually contributed vocals to 23 00:01:40,959 --> 00:01:45,719 the track and that it's not really uh, it's not really Vince Neil. 24 00:01:46,799 --> 00:01:49,680 Yeah, that that's a new rumor about it. I don't think any of 25 00:01:49,719 --> 00:01:53,719 that's true. You don't know, but I did. I mean, I 26 00:01:53,840 --> 00:01:59,040 understand the skepticism about Vince Neil's singing, but uh, even if he's terrible, 27 00:01:59,120 --> 00:02:00,519 and he is, you can fix all that in the studio. You 28 00:02:00,560 --> 00:02:05,439 don't need to replace him with a different singer and manipulate it to sound like 29 00:02:05,519 --> 00:02:09,120 Vince Neil. But I did, you know, Vince Neil takes a lot 30 00:02:09,120 --> 00:02:14,759 of crap for not being able to sing anymore basically, And I'd shared out 31 00:02:14,800 --> 00:02:19,680 recently on social media of video I saw of a recent concert that they did 32 00:02:19,719 --> 00:02:24,599 where they opened with Primal Scream, which is my favorite Motley Crue song, 33 00:02:24,639 --> 00:02:27,759 and I click on the video and I'm like, oh cool, and then 34 00:02:28,039 --> 00:02:31,560 Vince starts singing. It's so bad. It's like he's not even singing, 35 00:02:31,599 --> 00:02:38,960 he's just he's just kind of blurting out the words. It's so so horrible, 36 00:02:38,240 --> 00:02:43,800 and it reminded me of years ago, and it bumms me out because 37 00:02:43,800 --> 00:02:47,080 you know, one of my all time favorite vinces. Years ago, I 38 00:02:47,120 --> 00:02:51,000 saw Motley. It was the last time I seen Molly Crue live. It 39 00:02:51,039 --> 00:02:53,039 was when they did a co headlining tour with Kiss, and I was with 40 00:02:53,360 --> 00:02:58,400 Dan Randall of Dan Randall and the Randlettes. If you're a listener of Retrospectu 41 00:02:58,479 --> 00:03:04,919 Radio you might be familiar with Dan. We went and saw them at in 42 00:03:05,080 --> 00:03:10,199 a what was it at that point, the Comcast Center in uh some people 43 00:03:10,240 --> 00:03:15,520 still call it great Woods to this day anyway, but out in Mansfield. 44 00:03:15,639 --> 00:03:20,199 But we went and saw them and they played. Uh, there was a 45 00:03:20,240 --> 00:03:24,319 moment. See when you're actually there live, it's much harder too, because 46 00:03:24,360 --> 00:03:28,599 it's live. So if someone hits a wrong note or something, you don't 47 00:03:28,639 --> 00:03:31,800 really necessarily notice it unless you go back later and watch it on somebody's YouTube 48 00:03:31,879 --> 00:03:38,280 video. But there's a moment during uh, it was Don't Go Away Mad, 49 00:03:38,599 --> 00:03:40,919 another one of my favorites. You know the song, Yeah, girl, 50 00:03:40,960 --> 00:03:46,000 Don't go Away Mad. During that the fast part at the end, 51 00:03:46,039 --> 00:03:49,840 you know how the song kind of changes at the end, Vince Neil hit 52 00:03:49,879 --> 00:03:53,479 a note so sour that Dan and I actually looked at each other like, 53 00:03:53,840 --> 00:04:00,240 whoa, what was that? Anyway? So he's who knows. But I'm 54 00:04:00,240 --> 00:04:04,599 just saying I don't think the rumor is true about that song being created with 55 00:04:04,680 --> 00:04:09,960 AIS. The thing about AI, though, it's so hard to know what's 56 00:04:10,039 --> 00:04:13,479 real and what's not real these days. Well, there have been examples of 57 00:04:13,560 --> 00:04:15,959 yeah, of things being put out that have fooled people. Yeah, were 58 00:04:16,000 --> 00:04:20,720 AI generated some scary stuff that could actually be used to harm people? I 59 00:04:20,759 --> 00:04:27,199 mean this, this technology is really invasive in many, many, many ways. 60 00:04:28,040 --> 00:04:30,439 We talked on the show about that George Carlin special, Yeah, that 61 00:04:31,240 --> 00:04:35,120 it was completely AI created, of course, because he's passed away. Yes, 62 00:04:35,480 --> 00:04:41,600 if you were aware, AI is making the dead rise. Even that, 63 00:04:41,720 --> 00:04:46,360 though, there's some skepticism because the people who created that claim that the 64 00:04:46,600 --> 00:04:50,199 entire that that the whole thing was AI generated. And there's there's some people 65 00:04:50,199 --> 00:04:56,000 who are saying, there's no way AI wrote some of those jokes, because 66 00:04:56,120 --> 00:04:59,399 the thing is that that George Carlan thing. It actually I listen to the 67 00:04:59,439 --> 00:05:02,800 whole thing. Some of it's actually really good. But there's people some people 68 00:05:02,839 --> 00:05:06,040 are saying that, you know that the people who created it aren't being completely 69 00:05:06,040 --> 00:05:10,600 honest when it wasn't entirely AI generated. It couldn't have been because there's no 70 00:05:10,639 --> 00:05:14,160 way some of those jokes, some of those jokes are much too clever to 71 00:05:14,160 --> 00:05:18,319 to and and carlin esque I dare say to have actually been AI. Well, 72 00:05:18,399 --> 00:05:21,680 you really can't say that for one hundred percent certainty, because if you're 73 00:05:21,720 --> 00:05:29,000 training the AI with George Carlin, Okay, now right, George Carlin jokes, 74 00:05:29,040 --> 00:05:34,519 you've trained the AI to follow his history, his his cadence patterns, 75 00:05:34,920 --> 00:05:41,519 then yeah, why couldn't it potentially craft a Carlin esque joke? Right right? 76 00:05:42,000 --> 00:05:44,959 Well, here is uh, this is a story that just popped up. 77 00:05:44,959 --> 00:05:49,759 This is from NBC News NBC news dot com. Sony Music Group warns 78 00:05:50,040 --> 00:05:57,439 more than seven hundred companies against using its content to train AI. UH. 79 00:05:57,480 --> 00:06:01,560 The company said, songwriters and recording artists rights, including copyrights, still need 80 00:06:01,600 --> 00:06:05,959 to be respected amid innovations and AI, which also, by the way, 81 00:06:06,000 --> 00:06:10,639 this relates to some of the conversation we were having earlier with Hope the Rapper 82 00:06:11,199 --> 00:06:15,240 about about music and rights and royalties and all that kind of Yeah, exactly. 83 00:06:15,879 --> 00:06:23,160 AI has taken what was already a complex problem and exacerbated it quite a 84 00:06:23,160 --> 00:06:26,040 bit. So it says here one of the biggest record labels in the world 85 00:06:26,120 --> 00:06:32,160 is issuing notices warning hundreds of companies not to train artificial intelligence models on its 86 00:06:32,199 --> 00:06:36,040 content without permission. By the way, the first thing that comes to mind 87 00:06:36,079 --> 00:06:42,680 when I read that is how, I mean, so is Sony gonna start 88 00:06:42,680 --> 00:06:45,399 suing these companies? How are they even going to know? Like, how 89 00:06:45,399 --> 00:06:47,879 would you even how would you even be able to prove that that a company 90 00:06:47,959 --> 00:06:53,519 is using your content specifically to train an AI model. I think that would 91 00:06:53,560 --> 00:06:59,720 be be encoded into the AIS content as far as its own its it's memory 92 00:06:59,759 --> 00:07:02,720 bank, if you will, for use of a generic terminology, whatever's been 93 00:07:02,800 --> 00:07:06,000 utilized to help train it is going to be a part of its memory, 94 00:07:06,040 --> 00:07:13,399 a part of its collective computing. It doesn't get erased out afterwards. I 95 00:07:13,439 --> 00:07:17,360 don't think yeah, but I don't know. It has to have computer has 96 00:07:17,399 --> 00:07:21,120 to have something to draw its information from. It doesn't pull it out of 97 00:07:21,120 --> 00:07:25,079 thin air. It has to have places to go to pull that information. 98 00:07:25,560 --> 00:07:30,120 So if you're training it, you're feeding it all of this information, then 99 00:07:30,160 --> 00:07:34,199 it should, in theory be encoded into its information. So then you could 100 00:07:34,199 --> 00:07:38,920 go back and say, hey, you know you were using George Thoroughgood to 101 00:07:39,000 --> 00:07:44,199 train this AI. Are you using this to try and train kiss? But 102 00:07:44,279 --> 00:07:49,319 if you're teaching the computer via other artists, then those artists become a part 103 00:07:49,360 --> 00:07:54,319 of its persona, if you will, again trying to be generic on that, 104 00:07:56,600 --> 00:08:01,040 then is it not writing from those artists? But how is Sony? 105 00:08:01,079 --> 00:08:07,240 How if Sony is going to how's it gonna know that they're using Yeah? 106 00:08:07,279 --> 00:08:09,120 And I'm not posing this question thinking that there's an answer out there. I'm 107 00:08:09,120 --> 00:08:13,959 actually posing this question saying I don't think there's an answer out there yet, 108 00:08:13,160 --> 00:08:16,199 because this is also new. But how is Sony? And that's part of 109 00:08:16,199 --> 00:08:18,600 what makes it so fascinating to me? But how is Sony going to? 110 00:08:18,920 --> 00:08:22,720 Yeah? How are they going to know? And then how does Sony then 111 00:08:22,759 --> 00:08:28,560 approach a company and say we think, you know, we think you've been 112 00:08:28,680 --> 00:08:35,840 using our artist's work to train your you know, because it's all machine learning 113 00:08:35,919 --> 00:08:43,840 to train your AI systems. Uh, and you have to prove to us 114 00:08:43,279 --> 00:08:46,960 that you're not doing that. And if you can't prove to us that you're 115 00:08:48,000 --> 00:08:50,639 not doing that, then we're going to see you or something like how. 116 00:08:50,799 --> 00:08:56,559 I don't know how this is going to work. You can't train AI without 117 00:08:56,039 --> 00:09:00,759 information. And if you're going to train it on music, how do you 118 00:09:00,799 --> 00:09:05,120 train music without using music to teach it what music is? Right? So, 119 00:09:05,320 --> 00:09:09,720 yeah, this is pretty It's like, where's that where's that line on 120 00:09:09,879 --> 00:09:16,000 AI creation? How do you tell when it's crossing over? I mean, 121 00:09:16,080 --> 00:09:18,440 I still think there's going to be something inside of the computer's memory banks itself, 122 00:09:18,919 --> 00:09:22,519 some kind of something that you can go, yeah, that's in there 123 00:09:22,559 --> 00:09:26,240 and it's such and such artist. But how do you get into that? 124 00:09:26,879 --> 00:09:33,879 How do you know? Now? The article, the NBC article shows that 125 00:09:33,000 --> 00:09:39,519 Europe is ahead of us on this issue. The European Unions already created law 126 00:09:41,080 --> 00:09:48,159 to try and protect artists and and kind of try and spell out what kind 127 00:09:48,240 --> 00:09:54,159 of content they're allowed to use to train these AI models or these AI systems 128 00:09:54,799 --> 00:10:00,000 or what you call them. Yeah, models, I suppose that works. 129 00:10:01,279 --> 00:10:03,360 Chris Warrior or our friend Chrispy the comedian says, Hi, guys, can 130 00:10:03,360 --> 00:10:11,799 you get a restraining order on AI? I don't think so. Yeah, 131 00:10:11,080 --> 00:10:16,000 Selfie, uh, I'm sorry, Spelfie Ham said, I wish there was 132 00:10:16,039 --> 00:10:20,600 an AI robot following eleanor and I through BJ's trying to play Marco Polo with 133 00:10:20,639 --> 00:10:24,639 me. Well, it sounds fun, it's not all bad. So if 134 00:10:24,679 --> 00:10:28,720 an AI song, like, if it's a singer, you're gonna probably write, 135 00:10:28,720 --> 00:10:33,320 You're gonna recognize the voice. So I suppose if you like you're a 136 00:10:33,360 --> 00:10:39,200 basis you know, certain each artist has a certain tone or intonation that's unique 137 00:10:39,200 --> 00:10:43,120 onto themselves. I suppose if you pick up on something like that, then 138 00:10:43,159 --> 00:10:46,559 maybe you can try and say, oh, this is my you know, 139 00:10:46,639 --> 00:10:50,720 you've encroached on me. But but even that, even that, because because 140 00:10:50,759 --> 00:10:54,759 even with human generated music, which it sounds strange to even say that, 141 00:10:54,799 --> 00:10:58,120 but even with human generated music, everybody's in See, this is where it 142 00:10:58,120 --> 00:11:03,919 gets really complicated really fast. Everybody's influenced by artists who came before them, 143 00:11:05,840 --> 00:11:07,360 right, right, So you take AI out of the equation, Well, 144 00:11:07,440 --> 00:11:11,600 human beings. And this is why human beings sue each other for things like 145 00:11:11,639 --> 00:11:16,639 copyright infringement and intellectual property and all of it. Because and plagiarism, because 146 00:11:16,759 --> 00:11:20,679 human beings are all influenced by other human beings, and every musician is influenced 147 00:11:20,679 --> 00:11:26,799 by all the music that came before them. So even that gets very dicey. 148 00:11:26,799 --> 00:11:31,399 Because we've done on retrospectrum radio, we've done shows, actually we've done 149 00:11:31,399 --> 00:11:35,600 a bunch of them now where the theme has been musical plagiarism. Yeah, 150 00:11:35,639 --> 00:11:39,559 you know, and and Paul will play a song and play another song and 151 00:11:39,559 --> 00:11:41,759 say, okay, these two songs. You know, one artist sued the 152 00:11:41,799 --> 00:11:46,039 other, and we all have to say, you know, do we think 153 00:11:46,080 --> 00:11:50,639 the artist is guilty or not guilty of plagiarism. And I'm very lenient with 154 00:11:50,679 --> 00:11:54,240 that because I believe everybody was influenced by somebody else, so I'll usually say 155 00:11:54,279 --> 00:12:01,080 not guilty unless it's Led Zeppelin, the most plagiaristic musicians and history. I 156 00:12:01,120 --> 00:12:05,360 think that Europe's really got something going here because they've passed a comprehensive law and 157 00:12:05,399 --> 00:12:11,519 it requires these companies to make public with sufficient details, a summary of the 158 00:12:11,559 --> 00:12:16,240 content that they used to train those models, So they have to give you 159 00:12:16,320 --> 00:12:20,480 a this is what we used to train it. They have to make it 160 00:12:20,559 --> 00:12:22,720 public. That would be something that I think would be very good to do 161 00:12:22,759 --> 00:12:28,399 here in the United States to help protect artists here that you've got to make 162 00:12:28,440 --> 00:12:31,600 public what you're doing to train this stuff, so when music comes out of 163 00:12:31,639 --> 00:12:37,039 you, we know whether or not you're plagiarizing another artist. I guess that's 164 00:12:37,919 --> 00:12:41,559 I mean, there has to be a way to control what AI is doing, 165 00:12:41,679 --> 00:12:45,720 or it's just going to railroad artists and artists aren't going to be making 166 00:12:45,720 --> 00:12:48,000 money off of their music at all. They're not gonna be able to control 167 00:12:48,080 --> 00:12:50,440 their likeness. They're not going to be able to control their music. On 168 00:12:50,480 --> 00:12:56,279 the other hand, though, and maybe I'm consider this plain Devil's advocate, 169 00:12:56,320 --> 00:13:01,320 because obviously I want to advocate for artists always it's so hard to make money 170 00:13:01,320 --> 00:13:05,080 with music as it is. But on the other hand, I'm not sure, 171 00:13:05,200 --> 00:13:11,480 and on a practical sense, going back to you know, if you're 172 00:13:11,519 --> 00:13:16,639 a human, you're learning from everything you were influenced by, from all the 173 00:13:16,720 --> 00:13:20,799 music you've heard, So why then would it be any different for an AI 174 00:13:20,919 --> 00:13:26,679 model. You're regardless, I mean, all music that is being created, 175 00:13:28,159 --> 00:13:33,840 is being created based on music that's already been created, because I think AI 176 00:13:33,039 --> 00:13:41,559 can sometimes it can be almost a carbon copy, and it has the ability 177 00:13:41,639 --> 00:13:50,399 to take in an artist and then spit it back out with different words and 178 00:13:50,559 --> 00:13:52,919 it's the same artist, but it's reutilizing that. You know what I'm saying. 179 00:13:54,200 --> 00:13:58,360 I do. It's like a it's almost it's like memorycks in a way. 180 00:13:58,399 --> 00:14:01,480 It's taking it in and it's it back out, making it sound a 181 00:14:01,519 --> 00:14:05,320 little different. But it's that artist. That's what people are worried about. 182 00:14:05,399 --> 00:14:07,519 That's what people are saying. You know, I don't want to see AI 183 00:14:09,200 --> 00:14:16,600 using this one's voice or taking this one's specific guitar style and duplicating it into 184 00:14:16,639 --> 00:14:20,799 its own creation. It's it's not a human creation. It's a machine creation. 185 00:14:22,039 --> 00:14:26,759 Not that that makes it bad machine creation, but when it's utilizing, 186 00:14:26,799 --> 00:14:28,840 when it's sucking in all that data and spitting it out making it sound a 187 00:14:28,879 --> 00:14:35,759 little different, that's bad. That to me is is that's that's plagiarism, 188 00:14:35,159 --> 00:14:39,720 and we can't let AI do that. And it's so hard to protect musicians 189 00:14:39,720 --> 00:14:45,480 as it is now. Artists have a very hard time getting paid for what 190 00:14:45,600 --> 00:14:48,279 they do everybody else makes money off of them. Wait a minute, though, 191 00:14:48,440 --> 00:14:54,840 so this is important, But so if an AI model learns an artist's 192 00:14:54,879 --> 00:15:00,639 style and you know, whether it be writing, how they write, or 193 00:15:00,679 --> 00:15:03,200 production, whatever it is, their sound, their vibe, whatever it is, 194 00:15:05,039 --> 00:15:13,159 and then creates a work based on that style that sounds like that artist 195 00:15:13,480 --> 00:15:18,799 but doesn't sound like any specific song by that artist, just sounds like their 196 00:15:18,960 --> 00:15:24,440 style. That's not plagiarism, is it. How can that be plagiarism if 197 00:15:24,799 --> 00:15:30,279 if it creates and we're just talking their intellectual property, and because ging it 198 00:15:30,399 --> 00:15:33,559 back out a slightly different But here's the problem though. By that logic, 199 00:15:33,600 --> 00:15:39,399 you could say, like the band Greta van Fleet, who sounds exactly a 200 00:15:39,440 --> 00:15:43,279 young newer Yeah they've been around for a little bit now, maybe a decade, 201 00:15:43,320 --> 00:15:48,960 but a newer band, younger band that sounds exactly like and I don't 202 00:15:48,000 --> 00:15:54,440 mean influenced by, I don't mean kind of like that sounds exactly like led 203 00:15:54,519 --> 00:16:00,759 Zeppelin. So should we call that plagiarism? Just LEDs up will allow it? 204 00:16:00,639 --> 00:16:03,399 Well, they have no choice because Greta van Fleet. See here's the 205 00:16:03,440 --> 00:16:06,559 thing. This is where it gets tricker. So they sound like them, 206 00:16:06,600 --> 00:16:11,399 but they but they're all original songs. They don't plagiarize any of Zeppelin's songs. 207 00:16:11,000 --> 00:16:15,480 They sound exactly like led Zeppelin. If if you put on a Greta 208 00:16:15,720 --> 00:16:19,320 Van Fleet song and you didn't know who it was, and someone told you, 209 00:16:19,399 --> 00:16:23,559 hey, I found an unreleased led Zeppelin track that that never came out, 210 00:16:23,600 --> 00:16:26,120 and they played it for you, you would you would think it was 211 00:16:26,200 --> 00:16:29,000 led Zeppelin. I mean, I don't know if you've ever listened to Greta 212 00:16:29,080 --> 00:16:30,799 van Fleet, but they have not. I have exactly like led Zeppelin. 213 00:16:30,919 --> 00:16:33,639 You're caught, Yeah, but I think you're dirting my pool because you're mixing 214 00:16:33,639 --> 00:16:37,759 apples orthonages. You're taking human beings that are here in the now that are 215 00:16:37,799 --> 00:16:41,559 doing one specific thing that the other person does have the option to maybe go 216 00:16:41,639 --> 00:16:45,799 to court or have a claim that it that it's tangible that they can deal 217 00:16:45,879 --> 00:16:52,679 with. AI is a completely different animal. AI is accept is taking everything 218 00:16:52,799 --> 00:17:00,639 in and spitting out that it's not it's to me. It's best different when 219 00:17:00,679 --> 00:17:06,720 you're taking everybody else's information and you're using it to create something. You're stealing 220 00:17:06,720 --> 00:17:11,640 all these people's data, all these people's personality information, and then trying to 221 00:17:11,680 --> 00:17:14,839 spit it back out as your own. It's kind of like having somebody else 222 00:17:14,880 --> 00:17:17,720 take the test for you and then you put your name on it. Here's 223 00:17:17,759 --> 00:17:21,519 your own. But how is that any different from how a human being operating? 224 00:17:21,640 --> 00:17:25,839 Human being is one individual entity that a person can actually see, touch, 225 00:17:26,240 --> 00:17:29,920 take to court. We can control this. AI is something that is 226 00:17:30,799 --> 00:17:36,799 international worldwide. If you don't control it at the start, you cannot control 227 00:17:36,839 --> 00:17:38,480 it at the other end. Well, at least with a human being, 228 00:17:38,519 --> 00:17:42,480 I have the ability to put a stop to that human being. I can 229 00:17:42,519 --> 00:17:45,359 take them to court, I can do something with them. But if I'm 230 00:17:45,400 --> 00:17:48,759 a human being as a human being, which I am, by the way, 231 00:17:48,759 --> 00:17:51,519 for anyone who doesn't know, there's a rumor that I'm some sort of 232 00:17:51,559 --> 00:17:57,559 android. Yeah, I shouldn't even go there. But it's very complicated. 233 00:17:57,880 --> 00:18:03,240 But but if I as a human being, so if I write a song, 234 00:18:06,200 --> 00:18:11,839 I'm what informs me, and my ability to create music is all the 235 00:18:11,960 --> 00:18:15,799 music that I've heard over the course of my life. That's different. Why 236 00:18:15,880 --> 00:18:18,200 though, Because I think it's different because, well, for one thing, 237 00:18:18,200 --> 00:18:22,799 you're a human being. You're absorbing information from multiple entities, and you're you're 238 00:18:22,799 --> 00:18:29,359 doing that as a human differently with the AI system. Individuals are with intent 239 00:18:30,000 --> 00:18:36,160 loading this computer with your specifics, with the intent of it spitting out something 240 00:18:36,200 --> 00:18:40,920 in return that is similar to or identical to that's entirely different. This is 241 00:18:40,960 --> 00:18:45,799 intentional. I'm going to use my computer to steal every ounce of what makes 242 00:18:45,839 --> 00:18:48,720 you you and spit it back out to the world in every way that I 243 00:18:48,759 --> 00:18:51,960 possibly can. And you're the horses out of the bond. You can't control 244 00:18:52,000 --> 00:18:55,039 that. So we have to have it on the front end that we control 245 00:18:55,400 --> 00:19:00,279 what is allowed to be fed into these AI systems, right, because there's 246 00:19:00,319 --> 00:19:04,759 a difference there. Human beings absorb everything around them and spit that back out 247 00:19:04,759 --> 00:19:10,759 in their own way. But if I intentionally load a computer with all of 248 00:19:10,799 --> 00:19:15,119 you with the intent of its spitting you back out, but for me without 249 00:19:15,160 --> 00:19:21,039 you see what I'm saying. But if that computer spits something out that is 250 00:19:21,039 --> 00:19:23,039 a completely original work. In other words, if if you but it's not 251 00:19:23,119 --> 00:19:29,440 original, if you train the AI model but to absorb all of this work 252 00:19:29,480 --> 00:19:33,079 that's already been created, but then to create an original work. I'm gonna 253 00:19:33,079 --> 00:19:37,640 correct you there. You cannot say a computer absorbs well, however, you 254 00:19:37,640 --> 00:19:41,200 you absorb information and spit it back out a certain way. But a computer 255 00:19:41,400 --> 00:19:45,640 is fed and that's the only information it has to go by, is what 256 00:19:45,680 --> 00:19:48,799 it's fed. Sure, well, that's also true for all of us. 257 00:19:48,799 --> 00:19:51,039 So I mean, if I'm no, no, no, no, no, 258 00:19:51,039 --> 00:19:52,880 no, I don't think so well. If I'm if I'm a kid 259 00:19:53,200 --> 00:19:57,759 riding in a car and one of my parents is playing the radio, They're 260 00:19:57,839 --> 00:20:02,799 they're feeding me whatever that station is planned. I don't control the radio. 261 00:20:02,920 --> 00:20:06,039 The adult in the car controls the radio. No, no, nice, 262 00:20:06,319 --> 00:20:11,279 try red herring, red having I mean, seriously, you are You're a 263 00:20:11,400 --> 00:20:17,319 human being taking information in multiple facets. Nobody's in control of that, not 264 00:20:17,440 --> 00:20:19,240 your Give me a break, you year, You're a human. You're getting 265 00:20:19,640 --> 00:20:22,960 You're getting your senses all at the same time. You know, the men 266 00:20:22,079 --> 00:20:26,240 is something, your ears are hearing something. There's so many influences around you 267 00:20:26,799 --> 00:20:32,319 that conflate or compound what it is that's in your environment. This is a 268 00:20:32,400 --> 00:20:37,240 difference. This is a box if you will, that is given card of 269 00:20:37,359 --> 00:20:40,799 information, then that's all the information it gets. And I, as a 270 00:20:40,880 --> 00:20:47,039 human being, intentionally feed that in and I intentionally tell it give it to 271 00:20:47,160 --> 00:20:52,319 me with something new. I am totally ripping you off. But there's something 272 00:20:52,400 --> 00:20:56,079 new part though, isn't that what changes that? But that's not new when 273 00:20:56,119 --> 00:20:59,000 I'm doing it off of all of you. I take your body of work 274 00:20:59,839 --> 00:21:03,440 and go, hey, I twisted it a bit, and here this is 275 00:21:03,519 --> 00:21:07,039 new. So I get to have it and you can go pound sand that's 276 00:21:07,200 --> 00:21:11,359 that's no, No, it's not it's I did uh huh. No. 277 00:21:11,640 --> 00:21:15,720 I here's the thing. I agree with you in principle. But but there's 278 00:21:15,759 --> 00:21:18,440 also the practical application of all of this, and that's what I'm skeptical about. 279 00:21:18,559 --> 00:21:22,079 Practical in other words, how to Sony, how does Sony pursuit They'll 280 00:21:22,119 --> 00:21:27,079 mix practical with legal? Well, how does Sony? Well? Legally fine, 281 00:21:27,160 --> 00:21:30,400 how does Sony? How does Sony follow up on their threat? They're 282 00:21:30,400 --> 00:21:36,720 threatening these companies, they will have to look for if they hear their artist's 283 00:21:36,759 --> 00:21:38,319 voice coming out, that would be an easy one, I guess. But 284 00:21:38,799 --> 00:21:44,160 if and that's the thing. Europe is addressing this issue. We have an 285 00:21:44,160 --> 00:21:48,400 address this issue in Europe. The law is very specific. I've been sitting 286 00:21:48,400 --> 00:21:51,799 here reading some of the law that was passed in the European Union. So 287 00:21:51,880 --> 00:21:56,559 this is across the entire European Union the EU, and that they're required to 288 00:21:56,640 --> 00:22:02,240 keep one hundred percent up to date all the information and documentation that they use 289 00:22:02,640 --> 00:22:07,400 to teach these AI models. They're not allowed. It says they cannot. 290 00:22:07,400 --> 00:22:11,400 It says they have to supply this information without prejudice to the need to observe 291 00:22:11,440 --> 00:22:17,440 and protect intellectual property rights and confidential business information or trade secrets in accordance with 292 00:22:17,480 --> 00:22:19,599 the Union. YadA, YadA, YadA. They have to give them everything 293 00:22:19,599 --> 00:22:25,400 they've got to keep records and turn over everything that they've used to train that 294 00:22:25,559 --> 00:22:29,480 AI. And when I look at your AI records and see that you've got 295 00:22:29,519 --> 00:22:33,079 you all over the place, you didn't approve that, then yes, I 296 00:22:33,119 --> 00:22:36,799 get to step in and say, hey, you're ripping off my artists, 297 00:22:37,839 --> 00:22:41,359 So I get to do that. We need something like that here in the 298 00:22:41,440 --> 00:22:45,160 United States to protect American artists so they're not ripped off by these companies. 299 00:22:45,480 --> 00:22:49,680 And that's where you come into the laws that control how much you get to 300 00:22:49,720 --> 00:22:55,160 control your own image and your own work. And that's what I meant by 301 00:22:55,200 --> 00:23:00,960 talking about that earlier. There's a writer here in New Hampshire. Oh my 302 00:23:00,000 --> 00:23:04,720 gosh, it was Schallenger. Yes, Sallenger. The family wanted to control 303 00:23:04,799 --> 00:23:08,599 the identity, and depending on when you live in the world depends on how 304 00:23:08,640 --> 00:23:14,799 much you can control your identity inellctual property. So if you die in New 305 00:23:14,799 --> 00:23:17,799 Hampshire, you live in New Hampshire, you're only allowed to control your identity 306 00:23:17,880 --> 00:23:19,880 until you're dead, and then your family has no control over it. You 307 00:23:19,920 --> 00:23:23,839 should go to California, your family gets to control your identity for one hundred 308 00:23:23,920 --> 00:23:30,720 years or essentially trying to be one generation. So that's where this stuff comes 309 00:23:30,759 --> 00:23:34,920 in too. Now we're making this situation war compounded because now we have AI. 310 00:23:36,440 --> 00:23:40,880 So now I could theoretically feed Sallenger books into AI and come out with 311 00:23:40,920 --> 00:23:44,880 a new Sallenger book because I gave it all of Salinger's works to train. 312 00:23:45,640 --> 00:23:52,160 So isn't that theft? I don't know. I mean because again, if 313 00:23:52,200 --> 00:23:56,079 what if JD. Salinger is your favorite author and you decide I'm going to 314 00:23:56,119 --> 00:24:02,720 write a book based on the style of JD. Salinger, that's you writing 315 00:24:02,759 --> 00:24:06,720 a book based on the style of JD. Salinger, not you feeding a 316 00:24:06,799 --> 00:24:10,359 computer all of his books and then say, hey, spit me out a 317 00:24:10,400 --> 00:24:15,559 new book. So that's that's the thing. That's why we have to start 318 00:24:15,559 --> 00:24:19,759 at the beginning of where they're training these things and control that if we're going 319 00:24:19,839 --> 00:24:26,720 to have any kind of hope of protecting the artists. Yeah, a little 320 00:24:26,759 --> 00:24:30,519 bit, a little bit more to this, Yeah, says Sony Music Group, 321 00:24:30,559 --> 00:24:34,279 which owns well known labels as Columbia, RCAA and Epic, has started 322 00:24:34,279 --> 00:24:38,720 sending formal letters to more than seven hundred generative AI company. There's a lot 323 00:24:38,720 --> 00:24:45,400 of companies doing this and streaming platforms prohibiting them from mining text or data, 324 00:24:45,720 --> 00:24:52,079 webscraping, or otherwise using any SMG content without explicit licensing agreements. That covers 325 00:24:52,119 --> 00:24:57,119 a wide variety of content, including audio recordings, musical compositions including lyrics, 326 00:24:57,359 --> 00:25:02,160 cover artwork, and metada. According to a copy of the letter obtained by 327 00:25:02,240 --> 00:25:06,759 NBC News. In its letter, SMG said it recognizes the significant potential and 328 00:25:06,799 --> 00:25:11,359 advancement of AI. It wrote, quote, However, on authorized use of 329 00:25:11,440 --> 00:25:15,640 SMG content in the trading, development, or commercialization of AI systems deprives SMG 330 00:25:15,759 --> 00:25:22,880 companies and SMG talent of control over and appropriate compensation for the users of SMG 331 00:25:22,000 --> 00:25:30,400 content. Conflicts with the normal exploitation of those works unreasonably prejudices our legitimate interests 332 00:25:30,440 --> 00:25:36,880 and infringes our intellectual property and other rights. Unquote. Such activity quote conflicts 333 00:25:36,920 --> 00:25:42,400 with the normal exploitation of these works unreasonably prejudices our legitimate interests and infringes our 334 00:25:42,480 --> 00:25:48,960 intellectual property and other rights unquote. Asks for comment. A spokesperson for SMG 335 00:25:48,079 --> 00:25:55,200 referred NBC News to a declaration the company posted online on Thursday. It wrote 336 00:25:55,240 --> 00:25:57,559 in the post, quote, evolutions and technology have frequently shifted the course of 337 00:25:57,559 --> 00:26:03,599 creative industries. I will likely continue that long standing trend. However, that 338 00:26:03,680 --> 00:26:08,200 innovation must ensure that songwriters and recording artists rights, including copyrights, are respected, 339 00:26:08,359 --> 00:26:14,519 unquote. The letter asks companies who either confirm that they have not used 340 00:26:14,599 --> 00:26:19,119 SMG content without permission or if they have to provide details about how the content 341 00:26:19,279 --> 00:26:25,720 was used in AI training. And I think that's excellent that they literally went 342 00:26:25,759 --> 00:26:27,640 to them and said, listen, you need to tell us if you've done 343 00:26:27,640 --> 00:26:30,839 this or not. But you know, I mean a lot of these companies 344 00:26:32,920 --> 00:26:34,759 are gonna say, pound Sand, we don't have to tell you anything, 345 00:26:36,240 --> 00:26:41,240 not necessarily because depending on the state there and there may be laws that what's 346 00:26:41,279 --> 00:26:45,160 the word I'm looking for compel them, Yeah, to release the information there 347 00:26:45,200 --> 00:26:48,680 may be, but there have already been issues. There's ones here that there 348 00:26:48,720 --> 00:26:52,200 has been incidences of AI used and when it was found out, it was 349 00:26:52,279 --> 00:26:59,799 forced to be removed. So we're already seeing it happen. Drake released Taylor 350 00:26:59,839 --> 00:27:04,000 Mayd freestyle that has an IP generated voice of the late wrapper two bucks Core 351 00:27:04,200 --> 00:27:10,599 Yeah now and that, But that track ended up being removed from Drake's x 352 00:27:10,599 --> 00:27:17,319 and his Instagram accounts after shakurz Estate threatened to sue him. Yeah, we 353 00:27:17,400 --> 00:27:22,039 do know. History tells us that government UH is generally very poor at keeping 354 00:27:22,119 --> 00:27:30,039 up with technology. Sure, yeah, it says here. While regulators protecting 355 00:27:30,119 --> 00:27:34,200 human made works still lag in the US, regulations rather many companies have begun 356 00:27:34,240 --> 00:27:38,480 to negotiate their own agreements around the licensing of their content for AI model training. 357 00:27:38,839 --> 00:27:42,960 Some have also used A Some have also sued rather AI companies, claiming 358 00:27:44,160 --> 00:27:52,640 their AI models were trained on copyrighted materials. Some tracks that appear oh sorry, 359 00:27:52,680 --> 00:27:56,119 some tracks that appear to use AI generated vocals have already popped up online. 360 00:27:56,279 --> 00:27:59,799 Last year, a viral song called Heart on My Sleeve, created by 361 00:27:59,839 --> 00:28:03,720 an an anonymous musician who goes by Ghostwriter, featured vocals that sound like those 362 00:28:03,799 --> 00:28:07,759 of Drake and The Weekend. Yeah, I remember that it was quickly taken 363 00:28:07,799 --> 00:28:14,559 down from streaming services because of the copyright claim by Universal Music Group. In 364 00:28:14,599 --> 00:28:17,839 April, Drake released Tailor Made Freestyle. Yep, you talked about that talking 365 00:28:17,839 --> 00:28:19,720 about that, Yeah, yeah, yeah, And it's interesting at least something 366 00:28:19,839 --> 00:28:23,599 has been getting done in the fact that there was a recent hearing where the 367 00:28:23,640 --> 00:28:27,880 CEO of Warner Music Group, Robert how do you say his name? Connects? 368 00:28:29,759 --> 00:28:33,839 Not sure? It's k y and cl for our listeners, I apologize 369 00:28:33,839 --> 00:28:40,279 for not pronouncing it correctly where he's asking for the United States to put laws 370 00:28:40,319 --> 00:28:44,880 in place to protect artists. I like his quote, he said. Quote. 371 00:28:44,920 --> 00:28:48,279 Our fundamental position on AI is simple. Everyone should have the right to 372 00:28:48,319 --> 00:28:52,519 decide how their own name, likeness, and voice is used, he said 373 00:28:52,599 --> 00:28:57,720 in preparing his remarks, These characteristics are the very foundation of our individuality. 374 00:28:59,079 --> 00:29:03,240 They are not simply data to be taken and used by others. Each person's 375 00:29:03,279 --> 00:29:07,200 identity must not be used in ways that they would never condone or wish to 376 00:29:07,240 --> 00:29:11,680 participate in, and that you know, you think about deep fakes, and 377 00:29:11,720 --> 00:29:15,720 that's taking somebody else's will away from them as they're not consenting to how they're 378 00:29:15,759 --> 00:29:22,640 being used in this computer model. So we do need to have and we 379 00:29:22,680 --> 00:29:26,200 need to hurry up because, like you said, we're pretty bad at keeping 380 00:29:26,279 --> 00:29:32,359 up with technology, because you know, this is going to undermine artists everywhere 381 00:29:32,960 --> 00:29:36,480 and we can't have that. You know, we can't have that. We 382 00:29:36,480 --> 00:29:40,720 can't allow artists don't make a lot as is. I mean, let's talk 383 00:29:40,720 --> 00:29:45,400 about the fact that musicians really get very little of the money that they generate. 384 00:29:45,799 --> 00:29:48,640 Right, the venue does, their manager does, everybody else gets a 385 00:29:48,640 --> 00:29:52,359 piece of the pie. By the time it gets down to the individual artists, 386 00:29:52,400 --> 00:29:55,720 it's not usually a whole heck of a lot. Most artists make most 387 00:29:55,720 --> 00:29:59,279 of their money off of their merchandise. Right. But if you're taking what 388 00:29:59,319 --> 00:30:03,079 little makes not my music, and you're taking that and feeding it into a 389 00:30:03,119 --> 00:30:06,279 computer, and now that computer is spitting out songs that you are going to 390 00:30:06,319 --> 00:30:10,960 make money on. But it's my likeness, it's my style, it's my 391 00:30:11,200 --> 00:30:18,279 music. I think that's theft. I really think that's theft. Well, 392 00:30:19,119 --> 00:30:22,920 Oh, by the way, a Spelfy said in the chat room the first 393 00:30:22,920 --> 00:30:26,559 time sheared Greta van Fleet she thought it was led Zeppelin. Yeah, well, 394 00:30:26,599 --> 00:30:30,240 it'll be so interesting to see where all this goes. And of course, 395 00:30:30,480 --> 00:30:37,599 technology does often really alter the course of the music industry. Your favorite 396 00:30:37,599 --> 00:30:42,000 bandit Kiss. There's mini Kiss, but Kiss approves of many kiss right, 397 00:30:42,359 --> 00:30:45,319 Yeah, are there some kind of a thing there. This is an individual 398 00:30:45,400 --> 00:30:48,200 that that Kiss can look at and say, yeah, we approve our Yeah, 399 00:30:48,200 --> 00:30:51,240 we don't like you. Don't do this anymore. We can sue you. 400 00:30:51,559 --> 00:30:56,920 You can't do that when you're used to train an entire system. By 401 00:30:56,960 --> 00:31:00,839 the way, you mentioned deep fakes. And before we get to a break 402 00:31:00,880 --> 00:31:07,599 and bring in our next guests, do you remember do you remember this? 403 00:31:07,000 --> 00:31:11,079 A classic moment from Matt Connorton Unleashed Matt Connorton, Unleashed? Do is this? 404 00:31:12,240 --> 00:31:15,359 Hey? Matt, this is actually you calling in. Thanks for taking 405 00:31:15,400 --> 00:31:19,079 my call. Wow, this is wonderful. I always dreamt of the day 406 00:31:19,079 --> 00:31:25,079 where I'd get to talk to myself. I'm curious if you remembered to pick 407 00:31:25,119 --> 00:31:26,519 up toilet paper or if you plan to do it on the way home. 408 00:31:27,200 --> 00:31:33,599 We needed to wipe our little bottom. Oh my goodness. Wow, I 409 00:31:33,640 --> 00:31:36,200 did not know that we were out, but I'm really glad that you told 410 00:31:36,400 --> 00:31:40,519 or I'm really glad that I told me. Our little bottom can get a 411 00:31:40,519 --> 00:31:42,400 bit messy. Sometimes it feels like we use too much of that dang stuff 412 00:31:42,880 --> 00:31:47,880 toilet pape, I mean right right, toilet pape. I've never actually called 413 00:31:48,039 --> 00:31:49,920 it. John Hopwood, Oh John, I'm always thought of him as a 414 00:31:49,920 --> 00:31:53,640 father figure, mostly because he always tries to spank my little bottom. I 415 00:31:53,720 --> 00:31:57,960 never let him, but he keeps asking, this must be an AI thing. 416 00:31:59,720 --> 00:32:04,839 Yeah he does, he does. How did I know that? I 417 00:32:04,920 --> 00:32:07,079 just mostly wanted to say that I am very nice and very much a sweet 418 00:32:07,079 --> 00:32:10,039 little boy, and even though my bottom gets a bit messy, I am 419 00:32:10,039 --> 00:32:15,680 a nice guy and someone that people love. Ah, that's very nice. 420 00:32:15,759 --> 00:32:19,440 Thanks you. And one more thing. Hopwood looks like an eighty six year 421 00:32:19,440 --> 00:32:23,640 old toddler and he makes us mush up bananas for him for lunch. Well, 422 00:32:23,799 --> 00:32:28,880 yes, yes that is uh goodbye, Matt, you at home in 423 00:32:28,920 --> 00:32:30,920 the mirror? Thank you? Yes, well, very sud I'll tell you 424 00:32:30,960 --> 00:32:34,799 what. That's a first for me. I've never gotten to uh speak to 425 00:32:34,839 --> 00:32:37,480 myself. Now, is it possible that someone so? Anyway? Yeah, 426 00:32:37,519 --> 00:32:40,359 that was sure. That wasn't a time. I mean, you guys have 427 00:32:40,440 --> 00:32:45,240 that time machine Friday night. That's true, that's true. No, we 428 00:32:45,240 --> 00:32:47,519 should give him a plug. That's actually from not even a show, our 429 00:32:47,559 --> 00:32:52,759 friend Chris James, one of my favorite Canadians. Uh, not even a 430 00:32:52,759 --> 00:32:58,640 show. That was Yes, that that happened live on my show, but 431 00:32:58,880 --> 00:33:02,079 that was him calling my show with a prank and we we love Chris. 432 00:33:02,160 --> 00:33:05,599 Yeah, that was really that was pretty cool. That was pretty cool. 433 00:33:05,640 --> 00:33:10,480 But I did also upload it to my YouTube channel as well. But yeah, 434 00:33:10,519 --> 00:33:13,839 Spelfie said in the chat room, I say please and thank you when 435 00:33:13,839 --> 00:33:16,319 I talk to AI. I hope when AI takes over the world, maybe 436 00:33:16,400 --> 00:33:21,599 if I'm polite, they will remember that and spare me because I was nice 437 00:33:21,640 --> 00:33:24,759 to them. Maybe, you know, it's war against the machine. You 438 00:33:24,759 --> 00:33:28,599 know. It's funny about that though, Honestly, and this is true. 439 00:33:29,119 --> 00:33:32,319 When I'm using chat GPT and I ask it to do something for me, 440 00:33:32,559 --> 00:33:37,160 I I do have a tendency to type please, just out of habit because 441 00:33:37,200 --> 00:33:42,920 I'm just I'm unfailingly polite, and I just because if I know, because 442 00:33:42,920 --> 00:33:45,640 if I'm writing, like if I'm writing an email to someone, you know, 443 00:33:45,680 --> 00:33:47,279 I'm going to say please if I'm asking them to do something for me, 444 00:33:47,400 --> 00:33:50,880 I do just out of habit. I do that with chat GPT, 445 00:33:51,240 --> 00:33:57,960 even though I'm I'm communicating with a Sometimes I think I've heard you do that. 446 00:33:58,119 --> 00:34:00,400 Yeah, I mean, hey, that's I was raised. I knew 447 00:34:00,480 --> 00:34:05,960 my please and thank you. Yes, yes, exactly, exactly. Well, 448 00:34:06,000 --> 00:34:08,719 anyway, it's an interesting subject and uh, it will be fascinating to 449 00:34:09,880 --> 00:34:15,880 watch as we move forward into this this brave new world of AI, which 450 00:34:15,920 --> 00:34:17,719 in some ways isn't that as new as people perceive it to be. But 451 00:34:17,840 --> 00:34:22,000 that's okay, But but it will be very interesting