You play to win the game. You don't play to just play it.
That's a great thing about sports. You play to win, and I don't
care if you don't have any wins. You go play to win. When
you start telling me it doesn't matter to retire, get out because it matters.
Hey, Hope, you had a good weekend. Really excited for today
and all week long really, but there's at this time of the year a
lot more going on than I think many people would have expected. Welcome on
a Monday, and welcome to Exus and Bros. I'm Matt Shephard, Glad
you're with us again. Hope you had a great weekend. Our producer is
Trend Bally, and we're glad that he's with us as well. It's a
kind of an exciting time for both the Red Wings and the Pistons. Now.
We may not think so originally because we both know neither made the playoffs.
We both know that neither team is necessarily championship worthy. But there are
certain names associated with certain franchises that we felt were important to bring back,
and we'll get to that coming up here on a very busy Monday morning.
That includes our friend Ted Coulfin from the Detroit News. He's the Wings beat
writer. He's going to join us at seven thirty five. We're going to
talk with DeShawn Tate. Deshaun Tate is an NBA beat writer to a certain
extent. I mean he's a guy who really follows the NBA. And with
the Pistons alleged move of Cad Cunningham, even though that's not confirmed by the
team coming back and the hiring of JB. Bickerstaff as their head coach,
those are important topics to talk about. And the amount of free agency,
the number of contracts that are being doled out right now in NBA free agency.
I wouldn't say it's borderline irresponsible, but some of these I think are
a little bit more than I thought. Like James Harden two years, seventy
million dollars with the Clippers. I couldn't I couldn't comprehend that. I'm like,
Okay, go ahead, I mean, knock yourself out. To me,
I think it's a little ridiculous. But we'll get to all that.
First things First, Tigers salvage one from the Angels in a seven to six
win, snapping the Angels six game role Carson Kelly, Justin Henry molloy each
will hit homers for Detroit. The Tigers let it seven to one. In
the ninth inning, they had two outs, La gets a three run bomb
from Zach Netto. They get a two run shot from Joe Adell, and
suddenly you're left wondering, is this going to get blown? Is Shelby Miller
this bad? Fortunately, Shelby Miller out Tyler Holten in strikeout to end the
game. Miller pitches two thirds of an inning, allows five runs, three
hits, on a walk. It's been, it's been horrible. You've got
and ask yourself this. And look it's five after six in the morning,
so maybe this is tough to comprehend right away, but ask yourself this,
of all the players brought in in the off season for this Tigers team,
who's been worth a damn? Who's been the guy who said who you said,
Yeah, he's who I thought he was, you know, the that's
the old Dennis Green. They are who we thought they were. Who are
these guys? So tell me that, tell me the guys you feel like,
like, oh, this has been this has been good. Way to
go, Scott appreciate it very much. Jack Flairity's been better. Jack Flairty
has been better than you thought. Everybody else has been worse than you thought.
So depending on what statistic you want to marry with a certain player.
Case in point, Mark Canna. Mark Canna's betten two twenty eight. Maybe
you're not into batting averages. Wow, has almost as many strikeouts as walks.
Maybe you thought he was going to be a home run hitter. He's
got six bombs. That's it. So don't tell me that's been something that
you expected, Geo or Schella. It's betting two forty one. Again,
maybe you're not into batting average. Maybe you're into production hoping that he he's
got twenty one RBIs has he made He's made some nice plays at third,
but overall, has he been somebody you have been blown away by for the
contributions that he's made. His on base percentage, by the way, it's
two eighty one two eight one, So there you go. I mean,
there's two offensive guys that I bring up. These are the things that I
think about. Unfortunately, these are the things I think about when I'm watching
the Tigers. I want to know, I want to know who the guys
are who are helping this team move forward. Now, if you're unaware with
on base percentage, okay, I'll just give it to you. From a
team perspective, the average is three to eleven from a Major League baseball and
as I mentioned, he's at two eighty one. You want to know why
the Tigers have such a problem with on base percentage? And only Oakland,
Chicago and Miami are worse. All right, The White Socks, the Miami
Marlins, and the Oakland A's are the only teams worse than Detroit's on base
percentage. And part of the reason Geo Orchella has a two to eighty one
on base percentage. Right, there's your offense or the lack thereof in both
cases, and then you look defensive or you look pitching wise. Kent Tamada,
look, you can. You may not believe it's all associated with wins,
because it's really not. Riese Olsen is better than two wins, right,
absolutely, but kent to Maida has two wins and an ERA of almost
six. Those are numbers you can relate to. If you can't, and
you think gets overrated, then walks hits per innings pitched is pretty big.
How many walks in he's pitched or hits, I should say, and he's
pitched. Are you allowing in other words, base runners? In other words,
you're getting yourself in trouble. Derek Scoobel one of the best in the
league at point ninety four. Kent to Mayda one point four. Two teams
are batting two point eighty against Kent to Maida. That was another signing.
How's that worked out for you? Not too good? Then you look at
Shelby Miller. He has an ERA of six point two three for anyone who
has been on this team for an extended period of time. So I'm not
gonna count a guy like Mason Englert, if that's okay. I'm not gonna
count a guy like Kider Montero. If that's all right, I'm gonna call
Shelby Miller. Shelby Miller has an ERA of six point twenty three. Those
can be slightly misleading because of when he comes in the game. Guys coming
out of a bullpen, their era can skyrocket because they come in for an
inning and they don't have that many innings under their belt or associated with them,
and guys can score on them and suddenly your era is inflated. But
he walks too many guys and he has given up six bombs in twenty four
appearances, six bombs in twenty six innings. There's been one guy who's been
worth a damn. We'll talk more of that on the other side. X'es
and bros. Just starting here on a Monday morning and really fired up because
we're gonna get a chance to talk football, basketball, hockey, baseball,
any that's on your mind. It's exes and Bros. Across the great state
of Michigan. Bill Simonson here from my good friend Josh Garvey. Now he's
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here on XES and Bros. Throughout the Great State of Michigan. Whereever you
may be listening. Maybe you're in Flint on WTRX and that's Sports Extra thirteen
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The Ticket. We were talking about the Tigers with a nice win. And
sometimes I feel there's a little bit of guilt lciated with this for me because
even when they win, it's like they finally win a game and you're ragging
on some of the things they do because even when they win, you're not
comfortable at times a lot of times, and yesterday really should not You shouldn't
have to go back to your bullpen again. Now, it's very it's a
minor detail because today they have off. They're in Minnesota today. They may
have stayed last night in California. I doubt it, but they probably flew
to Minnesota. They have today off in Minnesota. You'd rather have a day
off in La than Minnesota, probably, but anyway for a three game series
against the Twins and then it's three games against Cincinnati and then your back home.
So today Tyler Holton and others get a chance to rest. Not a
huge deal, right. Bottom line is you're trying to get Shelby Miller right,
and he's not helping himself. And he's been terrible. I'm sorry,
he's been terrible. Can has been bad, or Shell has been bad,
has been bad, My eight has been bad. Flaherty's been the only one
worth of damn in your offseason signing, and you're going to trade him if
you're smart, You're going to trade him. All right, this is the
month we're getting there, man, Today's July first. The trade deadline is
at the end of the month. Your team is fifteen games back in this
division. These are the hardcore realities of what you and I have been dealing
with with baseball for most of this season. They are fifteen games back in
the division to the Cleveland Guardians, who have fifty two wins. I mean,
credit where credit is due. They have the third most wins in the
American League. Only Baltimore and New York have more, and the Yankees have
been spiraling. They've been terrible. As of late fifty two wins fifth most
in all of baseball. I mean, the Guardians have as many wins as
the Dodgers. Who would have thought that? Think about that for a second.
I mean, in Cleveland, you are absolutely giddy. There's no way
you would have ever thought that your team at this stage. I'm not saying
they're going to finish with the same number of wins. I mean, Trent,
would you say Cleveland is the biggest surprise in all of baseball so far?
Oh? Absolutely. I think at large, the entire al Central has
been a surprise, and that's why it stinks for the Tigers and Tigers fans
to be in fourth, because it ain't like being ahead of the White Sox
is anything to cheer about. Yeah, yeah, it's a good point.
I mean, I think the division is as well, so I think that's
a fair comment. I think Cleveland is maybe Kansas City's in that conversation,
is biggest surprise in baseball. But who would have thought in a positive way?
But who would have thought? Think about this, folks. The Dodgers
have a payroll of two hundred and thirty one million dollars two hundred and thirty
one million. That is seventh in all of baseball. The Tigers, by
the way, ranked twenty third. Cleveland has a payroll of one hundred million.
It's more than twice as many for LA and they have the same number
of victories. That's nuts, absolutely nuts, And that's a sign of a
well run franchise. You don't have to look too much further than moving off
Francisco Lindor. Everyone thought they were crazy at the time. I did.
I said, you're gonna have to spend some money somewhere in fairness both organizations.
I think it's also a sign of how good they are at developing players.
I mean the Dodgers. Sure, the big names of Otani and Freemen
and bets are all rightfully so on the headlines, but they have home your
own players who are really good and instrumental in getting them to where they are
today too, Like Will Smith for example, hell of a catcher, you
could argue outside jt Rila Muto perhaps the best catcher in baseball, one of
them anyway, Same thing with Cleveland homegrown guys. You're not drafting or you're
not signing a bunch of free agents as that organization so full props. It's
frustrating. I mean, your borderline pissed off, But I mean you got
to give them credit where credit is due. So you're fifteen games back bottom
line, Detroit, fifteen games back, thirty eight up and forty six down.
Okay, eight games under five hundred folks. Now, the optimist in
me might say, hey, wait a minute now, I mean the defending
world champion Texas Rangers have the same record as the Detroit Tigers. The Toronto
Blue Jays have the same number of wins as the Detroit Tigers. And just
so people are aware, Toronto is a top ten payroll in all of baseball,
they're number nine. Maybe there's a part of you that says, well,
wait a minute, look at the Reds and the Cubs that they have
roughly the same number of wins. And I would say, okay, so
does Washington. How does that grab you anything special there? And by the
way, the Cubs are arguably the biggest disappointment in baseball. They rank eighth
in payroll. Thought Craig Council would be much better than what he's done so
far. I don't know how much it's on him and how much it's on
the roster that they put together, but Detroit has to be has to be
a seller at the trade deadline. They have to be one because and I'm
sorry to talk about this so early in July and so early in the morning,
but that's because you know, they're eight games back of the wild card
too. Remember there was a time where people said, oh, hey,
all the articles were being written, all the beat writers. Yeah, but
they're only four and a half games back of the wild card. Even though
they're struggling, they are only four and a half games back in the wildcard.
This is like the beginning of June. And I said, on this
show. I said, Yeah, here's the problem. Houston's behind them,
Tampa's behind them, Toronto's behind them. And I said, they're all better
than the Tigers. They're all going to leap frog Detroit. I said that
on this program, and that's exactly what's come to fruition. Texas has also
leaped frog them. The only teams worse than the Tigers in the American League
record why are the Angels who just beat them three out of four, Oakland,
who's horrible, I mean just god awful. And the White Sox,
who's minus one eighty two in run differential is the worst in baseball one sixty
two. Rather, yes, scep the White Sox in the A's let's not
sugarcoat it. Are historically awful. It's not just for this season, right,
historically awful. Oakland, by the way, has the lowest payroll in
all of baseball, so let's not use that as the mangarine stick. And
they're leaving town, and they're leaving town and they have no atmosphere, and
they have a horrible ballpark, and they're horribly run and they don't have a
guy. You look, you don't they don't have one guy you look at
and say, got to have them. What's my what's my perspective? Folks?
What do I say? I say all the time look at my team,
look across the diamond, the field, next to the ice or whatever,
and say, I gotta have that guy. Is there a guy on
that team that you say that about? And the answer to that primarily is
no. So you gotta be sellers. Flirty's going to be sold. He's
being traded. That means you're off season produced nothing, no redeeming value.
The phone number on the Meyer hotline eight sixty six eight three, eight forty
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We've got a poll question for you. We'll get to that and a whole
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the Myer app Vanandal Institute. Purple Community is a grassroots fundraising network powered by
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Parkinson's, as well as VII science education programs. Learn how you can get
involved at Purplecommunity dot org. Every morning, my expectation is to just go
through the headlines and then use it as a jumping off point, and I
got to get better at this, but I just get stuck as soon as
I start talking about the Tigers and scene what is taking place, you know.
I mean you can barely get wet had half an hour and barely get
through the Tigers entire game summary if you will. Because the Shelby Miller problem
has given me issues, and the Tigers in general have given me issue.
They are going to open up a three game series in Minnesota tomorrow. Trek
Scougbel gets the nod in Game one, so that that allows everybody to do
it a big sigh of relief. I will say this in talking with friends
over the weekend, and I think it's a pretty good barometer because all my
friends are huge sports fans, and they're all Tigers fans. They have lost
complete interest in this baseball team. They're done. It's amazing. I tweeted
something out yesterday on X about Patrick king. How Emily Kaplan of ESPN said
that the Red Wings have agreed to a one year deal with Patrick Kane.
That's good. I think that's good. I think it's a great move,
quite honestly by Steve Eiserman. My fear was it was going to be a
really long not really, but it was going to be a three year contract
for a thirty five year old, and it was going to be financially strapping,
and it is not. It's a one year contract. So to me,
I think it's I think it's a really smart move for Eiserman and the
Wings, and I think it's a good move. Guy had twenty goals for
this team a year ago. That's pretty damn good, all right, And
I think he adds a little something more than just goal scoring. The leadership,
yeah, leadership, yeah, intangibles and for four million bucks and he's
got a chance to make what six and a half I think it's two and
a half according to Kaplan, two and a half million dollars in incentives.
Sometimes for me, I mean the word leadership oftentimes gets overused, but I
don't think it's inappropriate here. I think they do have some guys who've been
around a little bit. I mean, Dylan Larkin's been around long enough,
right, I mean, but you need more than one personality in that sense.
Now, does that mean that Steven Stamcoast is out or the possibility of
a Steven Stampcoast. No, No, the Red Wings have a lot of
cap space. It's about thirty three million dollars, but remember half of that
is going to be set aside to try and make sure Cider and Raymond are
happy. Okay, And by the way, that thirty three million was before
Patrick Kane is brought back, So it's a little bit less than that.
We'll talk about that with Ted Coulfin of the Detroit News. He's going to
join us at seven thirty five here on Exus and bro So. I mean
that's where you know, my mindset was headed well talking about the Tigers,
and when I tweeted that out last night, somebody said, this is a
good start. We need to see a little bit more. I can only
speak for myself. I don't expect to Stanley Cup, but I do expect
a playoff, Berth. If I can't get that, I don't know what's
going to happen. The Pistons, Wings and Tigers have worn me out.
That's what somebody said. I think the nail on the head there, Chef.
I think absolutely emotionally more than physically. You know, Trent, you
and I talk about this a lot. It's all about expectations, right,
So what was your expectation? I hurt myself by expecting more out of the
Tigers. Me too. My benchmark, Chef, is always the fourth of
July. If the Tigers watchable by the fourth of July, which as we
know the last six to eight years they haven't been. If they're watchable by
the fourth of July, I'm in a good head space. What does watchable
mean to you? More than two runs a game? Yeah? Quite Frankly,
to me, it means being such a generic word, but I'm gonna
use it anyway. Competitive, Yeah, I watch them, and it's not
that I love baseball. You love baseball. It's not that we don't think
they can win because in any given day, right, But like you said,
the offense you worry about constantly. You know, it's a bad defensive
team, and there's not one guy outside of for me anyway, Riley Green.
It's not that I don't like Matt Vererling. I like them a lot,
but they're not making me tune in. I think another aspect of this
two chef just quickly, is that some of the players you were looking forward
to watching, like Spencer tarclsen Casey, Miz Matt Manning, they've all fallen.
They've face planted. Quite frankly, Yeah, that's true. Think think
of the guys in just a few different teams, okay, and who who
you would tune in to watch. So if let's see huse Baltimore as an
example. You want to watch Gunner Henderson, You're damn right you do.
You want to watch Addlie Rushman, You're damn right you do. That's just
two names. New York, Soto Judge, even to a certain extent,
Volpi, who's a young, nice piece. Absolutely you want to watch those
guys. Cleveland. You want to watch Jose Ramirez every day. Absolutely,
get a chance to watch him. You want to watch Bobby Witt Junior every
day in Kansas City, Hell yeah you do. Houston, Texas. You
can pick a lot of guys, and both those teams. I think Houston
just one the other day. So they're over five hundred and they're coming.
You know, somebody told me earlier this year they're not that good. I
said, really, you're gonna judge them already. They're just fine. They've
got a lot of talent. Don't give me this that they're terrible bull crap.
They will be there in the end. That's who they are. They
have dogs, and that's a good thing. I don't mean dogs is in
they're lazy. I mean they've got dogs who will get after it. Name
the team. For the most part, Jazz Chisholm doesn't necessarily make my blood
pressure boil in a good way. C. J. Abrams doesn't do that
in Washington either, or Mackenzie Gore. But I'm saying, for the most
part, you're looking at teams around baseball and they've got a guy or two
at least that makes you go, can't wait to watch it tonight. Trent
and I aren't doing that. It's not happening. We're not looking at this
ball club and going, I cannot wait to see what this guy does here
today. And if there is one of those guys that's trek school and that's
once a week right right now, perhaps cold Keith has started to turn around.
Maybe that is a guy who moves your needle. Justin Henry malloy with
a Little League inside the Parker Little League home run yesterday. Maybe Okay,
I mentioned Riley Green. But you're not judging Justin Henry molloy yet, you're
not. It's not a guy that's making you tune in. You're going to
talk to your buddies down the hall and say, how about what Justin Henry
molloy did yesterday. They're going to say, who the hell is that?
It feels very a Keel bado esque from a few years ago, Remember when
he burst onto the scene. Yeah, yeah, I understand that. Because
neither one are good defensively, both are offense. I think I think mlloy's
a lot better offensively than the Kiel bad A lot like he is. The
difference is he's got a much better idea of the strike zone. Always has,
all right. I don't see him swinging and missing often at mid ninety
fast balls down the middle of the plate, So things like that, I
don't know. I think, excuse me. I think sometimes we get wrapped
up in comparing certain positions with certain young players. The troubling aspect is Justin
Henry mlloyd doesn't really have a position. I know, they've shifted him to
the outfield. Atlanta did the same thing in case people didn't know. Originally
the third baseman Atlanta signs Austin Riley, do a long term deal. They
have a future for Justin Henry mulloy, so they make him off and then
he comes to Detroit and they kind of, you know, they were tweaking
a little bit and thinking maybe it's not a bad idea to moving back to
third base, and they've decided third base wise, he's just not good enough,
so they moved to the outfield. And that's again a problem within the
system. The problem within the system is they've got guys who quote unquote can
hit, but where do you find room for them? Defensively? It's a
lot of platooning. Shep all over that. I mean, everywhere in the
clubhouse is platooning. I don't know if there's to your point earlier, there's
not many guys that you point at like you could with the eighty four Tigers
and say he's playing there every single day, and this is what the lineup
is. Barn On right, And even if you don't want to go eighty
four Tigers, just just give me the Phillies this this year. Give me
Sure Baltimore Orioles this year. Give me the New York Yankees. This year
the Indians. Look, or the Guardians. Excuse me, yeah, go
go Guardians. Go Cancer City absolutely, look they Kansas City took a kid
by the name of MJ. Melendez. He was a catcher. They moved
him to the outfield. I don't I'm not particularly fond of him because I
think he swings and miss his way too much. He's made more of a
natural transition than the guy like I think Justin Henry molloy has or will.
But the bottom line is not just platooning. It's position less. Platooning is
one thing like you know Zach McKinstry. Oh, I can play some second,
he can play some short he can play some third, he can play
some center field. Okay, But if you said, look, he's going
to be a shortstop or he's going to be a second baseman, you can
understand the athletic gifts that he possesses to bring you that legitimate argument not that
he's an everyday guy, so that's the reason he's a platoon guy. But
he's got that feel right. Cole Keith is stiff at second. Jace Young
is a guy who, even though he played second base at Texas Tech,
is not gifted defensively. A guy like Justin Henry molloy is. This is
in the same situation. They just don't have those guys. They don't have
a long term shortstop. They don't have a long term third baseman. That's
a problem. They don't. I don't know about Dylan Dingler, but I'm
are you sold on their catching? No me either. This there in lies
the problems. I feel like sometimes when I'm talking about the Tigers, I'm
talking about the Lions of about five years ago, six years ago, where
I'm saying, you need another defensive pressure off the edge, you need guys
in the secondary, you need a third a second wide receiver, you need
a couple of linebackers. There's a whole you need there. And with the
Tigers, I feel like it's the same thing. You need fill in the
blank. Okay, go ahead and wait for Max Clark in center field.
Go ahead. I don't know. I mean the guy's playing in Lakeland.
It's low way for crying out loud, but so many people are sold on
him. Okay, I hope he is everything that people say he is.
That's not coming anytime soon, So you're hoping your short term hope, I
would guess would be Parker Meadows would find it in Toledo and be better,
and that allows you to strengthen your left field with Riley Green. But right
now that's not the case, is it. So you're forcing left and right
field into this lineup, not normal or everyday guys at both positions. Same
thing at third base, same thing at shortstop, And don't give me hobby
or bias. He's gonna do some rehabbing and he's gonna be some simulation down
in Florida and so on and so forth, and then he's gonna come back.
Yeah. I can't wait to have the one to eighty four hitter back
in the lineup. That's gonna be great. I was just gonna say,
if he can scratch two hundred, we're happy, quote unquote, Yeah,
what does that tell you? Meanwhile, the second base is still a problem.
First base a little bit of an issue. I don't want Mark Canada
there every day to you. Hell no. It outlines the deep rooted issue
this team has. It has not built a system full of guys who are
everyday players, future everyday players at that position. And shep to your point.
I think when the team does go on a heater or they do show
flashes, it's a lot of smoke and mirrors. It's not sustainable. You
look at the batting average of the team, or they win a game when
schoobl pitches on his back they win two to one or something like that.
That's not sustainable. No, there's no way. I mean, you've got
to score runs, man, there's no doubt about that. Yeah. I
don't know if they've gone on a heater this year, maybe five to zero
to start the year. Maybe there's your heater. But this team's not consistent,
nor can they be not with this offense. You can't be that.
You can't be consistent, can. I know what people say, pitching in
defense wins championships, fair enough, I don't disagree with that. You're not
playing one hundred and sixty two games strictly on pitching in defense and winning.
You're not. Nobody does that, and this team too often is going two
runs or less. I think a perfect example of that is a week ago
or a week or so ago, when they were unable to sweep the White
Sox and the game they lost was five to one. Yeah, well,
not just that, think of this. So they win the game against the
Angels seven to six. They lose a six to five game the night before,
which was ridiculous. They scored two runs in the second game, they
got shut out in the first game. They scored two runs against the Phillies.
They scored one run against the Phillies in the first game of that series.
Right, it's it's pretty constant. I think they're more consistently bad offensively
than they would be consistently good pitching wise. And that's a lot to say,
because I mean, pitching wise, with Olsen and Flaherty and schooball,
they've been pretty damn good. But their offense has been consistently horrible. And
perhaps the bigger problem is there's nothing you can do about it right now.
There's nobody down in Toledo that is tearing the cover off the ball so much
that you've got to get them up here right away. So people right now
are frustrated because they feel like, well, what's really let this offense down
is two young guys who were expected to do something Torkosen and Meadows. Okay,
now, Metals has never been a high average or high production type guy
in the minor leagues, So I don't know why you would have been led
to believe that or feel like that would have been the case. If you
felt that way about Tourkosen, that's fine, you want to lay it at
his feet, go right ahead, all on. The only reason I brought
this up at five after the hour about Urshela and Canna is because it's more
than Torkosen. The expectation in the off season was britt You know, Torkosen
builds on last year, and then we're going to bring in two qualified,
established hitters who are going to help the depth of this lineup. Swinging a
miss, swinging a miss, swinging a miss, keep going. But it's
just those I'm just saying, those were three guys. You expected Green to
carry over. You expected Veerlin perhaps to get a little bit better. I
didn't expect much out of Cold Keith to start. He's been better recently than
I think anybody could have hoped. But it's just those three guys, think
of this. This team would be in a much better spot, much better
if Torkelsen, Canna and Urshela were what you expected and to your earlier point,
Sheep. That's where expectations can really bite you. Yeah, it's okay
to have had those expectations about Torkulsen. I had him that he hasn't lived
up to it this year. The other two guys never moved my needle.
But that's what this organization was banking on, and they miscalculated. As simple
as that phone number on the Meyer hotline eighty six six eight three eight forty
eight forty three, you can text the program sports ready to twenty one thousand.
Don't forget to vote on our poll question. We get to that when
we come back in. Ted Kulfit joins us at the bottom of the hour
to Trade News Red Wings Beat writer. We'll talk about the draft. We'll
talk about Patrick Kaine, Steven Stampcos and Moore coming up here on exis and
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