WEBVTT

1
00:00:00.560 --> 00:00:03.600
And it hits me, Oh my
gosh, this is that triangle. You

2
00:00:03.640 --> 00:00:08.039
know, there's explanation for everything that
occurred in the Randalchampars incident that doesn't involve

3
00:00:08.240 --> 00:00:13.080
aliens at all. It was completely
silent. It comes right over our heads.

4
00:00:13.400 --> 00:00:18.239
He's so cussic Fini solci really standing
into Cleary. He turned over to

5
00:00:18.320 --> 00:00:20.839
my father and held his hand,
and he looked in his eyes and said,

6
00:00:20.839 --> 00:00:29.280
We're not alone. Welcome to podcast
UFO for our live show. We're

7
00:00:29.320 --> 00:00:34.479
live every Wednesday at eight pm Eastern
Standard Time on the Dark Matter Radio Network.

8
00:00:34.880 --> 00:00:40.960
Please remember to visit the website podcastufo
dot com for past episodes, blogs

9
00:00:41.039 --> 00:00:45.159
and forums. During the show,
feel free to participate live in our chat

10
00:00:45.280 --> 00:00:49.560
room, and don't forget to like
us on our very active Facebook page.

11
00:00:49.880 --> 00:00:53.159
Hello everyone, This is Martin willis
your host, and first of all,

12
00:00:53.399 --> 00:00:57.880
I would like to apologize for last
week. It was Murphy's Law kicking in

13
00:00:58.079 --> 00:01:03.200
every which way. We had high
wins and on Dark Matter Radio we had

14
00:01:03.239 --> 00:01:08.799
a fried hard drive. It was
a comedy of aras and so we don't

15
00:01:08.840 --> 00:01:14.760
really don't want that to happen again
this week and our one and also helping

16
00:01:14.879 --> 00:01:18.760
me out with the news. Is
Chip Reichenthal. That's right, I said,

17
00:01:18.840 --> 00:01:21.560
helping me out with the news.
And guess what A le Hondro Rojas

18
00:01:22.319 --> 00:01:26.319
somehow forgot to tell me he was
on vacation this week. So I'm going

19
00:01:26.400 --> 00:01:29.640
to be doing the news and Chip's
going to help me, and I refuse

20
00:01:29.799 --> 00:01:34.159
to let Murphy and his laws affect
the show this week. So Chip will

21
00:01:34.200 --> 00:01:38.439
be on later actually through our one, and he's going to be talking about

22
00:01:38.120 --> 00:01:45.040
hypnosis of abductees. He's going to
be talking about his first or his UFO

23
00:01:45.200 --> 00:01:49.480
sighting, and this is an interesting
topic. We're going to bring up ets

24
00:01:49.799 --> 00:01:53.799
versus ghosts, which will be proven
first and it's funny. I'm going to

25
00:01:53.840 --> 00:01:57.200
talk to him about someone that was
in my office today talking about ghosts.

26
00:01:57.239 --> 00:02:01.599
It was kind of interesting. So
an hour two we have something really kind

27
00:02:01.640 --> 00:02:07.120
of exciting. It's a first time
speaker, Rob Mercer, and Rob is

28
00:02:07.599 --> 00:02:13.719
in Ohio moofon and he also was
He happened to be on Craigslist a while

29
00:02:13.840 --> 00:02:16.919
back and he saw something that was
interesting and he went and checked it out

30
00:02:17.120 --> 00:02:23.960
and it was a Project blue Book
files. So he found out that who

31
00:02:23.039 --> 00:02:28.000
the person was, where they originated
from, contacted him. The gentleman is

32
00:02:28.039 --> 00:02:31.080
still alive, I believe in his
eighties and he got all kinds of great

33
00:02:31.159 --> 00:02:37.039
move I'm sorry, Project blue Book
stuff that we're going to talk about.

34
00:02:37.039 --> 00:02:38.919
It's pretty exciting. So it's kind
of like breaking news. And that's an

35
00:02:38.919 --> 00:02:43.719
hour two. So I want to
thank everyone for their support. And if

36
00:02:43.759 --> 00:02:46.879
you haven't subscribed yet and you want
to hear the full show for only a

37
00:02:46.000 --> 00:02:51.039
dollar or more a month, that's
just twenty three cents a week. And

38
00:02:51.240 --> 00:02:53.800
I bought a Starbucks a latte the
other day and it was like five something

39
00:02:53.840 --> 00:02:58.199
and I was thinking, Wow,
someone can listen for five months for this

40
00:02:58.360 --> 00:03:02.439
one coffee. Anyway, if you'd
like to do the support, you can

41
00:03:02.520 --> 00:03:07.439
go to our website podcastufo dot com
and just click on the support link right

42
00:03:07.520 --> 00:03:12.680
on the sidebar. And if you
can't support us, thank you for listening.

43
00:03:12.759 --> 00:03:15.680
Anyway. We appreciate every single one
of you. Don't forget we have

44
00:03:15.280 --> 00:03:20.360
t shirts on our website. We're
practically giving them away. Matter of fact,

45
00:03:20.400 --> 00:03:22.960
if you just give me an offer, I'll probably send you one as

46
00:03:23.039 --> 00:03:27.479
long as postage is covered. Now
next week we are going to do shout

47
00:03:27.520 --> 00:03:30.919
outs for people that support us for
five dollars or more a month. So

48
00:03:31.000 --> 00:03:35.240
if you want me to use your
full name, please do email me this

49
00:03:35.360 --> 00:03:42.159
week if you hear the show,
it's at Martinette podcastufo dot com and we

50
00:03:42.439 --> 00:03:47.080
are ready to bring in Chip and
to do the news. Chip. How

51
00:03:47.159 --> 00:03:52.240
are you? I'm great, Martin, you know, I always enjoy being

52
00:03:52.319 --> 00:03:55.199
with you and I should love the
show here. And I have to find

53
00:03:55.240 --> 00:04:00.280
a sexier name so I can keep
up with you know, Alejandro as far

54
00:04:00.319 --> 00:04:01.719
as doing the news goes, But
great to be here. Thank you.

55
00:04:02.000 --> 00:04:04.960
You can latinize your name somehow,
we'll y'll have to work on that,

56
00:04:05.199 --> 00:04:08.879
but then it would be cheap and
that just doesn't cut it, you know.

57
00:04:09.680 --> 00:04:11.199
Well, first of all, I
want to say, as far as

58
00:04:11.240 --> 00:04:15.800
the news goes, all the links
are right on our show notes at podcastufo

59
00:04:15.879 --> 00:04:20.519
dot com and they're all from they
all originate at Openminds dot tv. And

60
00:04:20.600 --> 00:04:26.720
we're going to start out Pennsylvania UFO
described as star Trek Shimmery. Now,

61
00:04:26.800 --> 00:04:30.680
this guy sounds like a real observer. Here. He was out walking his

62
00:04:30.920 --> 00:04:33.040
dog and he had a satellite app
on his phone and he was looking at

63
00:04:33.120 --> 00:04:36.079
satellites, spotting them and all of
a sudden out of the corner of his

64
00:04:36.199 --> 00:04:44.040
eye, he sees a like a
black triangle and then it was like a

65
00:04:44.120 --> 00:04:47.680
flying v across the southwest to the
northwest. And he gives all this really

66
00:04:47.800 --> 00:04:53.040
detailed information about holding his thumb up
in front of his eye and trying to

67
00:04:53.240 --> 00:04:57.879
see how big the thing was.
He guesses approximately how big, how fast

68
00:04:57.920 --> 00:05:01.199
it was going. Anyway, that
story is right right on our website,

69
00:05:01.240 --> 00:05:03.519
the link to it. And what
do you think, did you read that?

70
00:05:04.120 --> 00:05:06.920
Chip? Yeah? I did,
Martin, And you know, I

71
00:05:08.519 --> 00:05:14.000
look, I think a lot about
this, especially in Pennsylvania, Lancaster County,

72
00:05:14.240 --> 00:05:18.399
and I'm mainly known as a paranormal
guy, but I'm very tied into

73
00:05:18.480 --> 00:05:25.120
the UFO community. They'll move on
level five, which means that there's more

74
00:05:25.240 --> 00:05:31.480
sidings in the Pennsylvania and around that
area, Lancaster County area, just about

75
00:05:31.480 --> 00:05:35.480
any other state in the country.
You know, nine sidings alone in February.

76
00:05:35.879 --> 00:05:40.360
So it says a lot. You
know, it ties into something.

77
00:05:40.560 --> 00:05:45.079
And admittedly, you know, I'm
a little sentimental today at that plane crash

78
00:05:45.160 --> 00:05:47.399
in the French obse. You know, you see world leaders hugging each other

79
00:05:47.519 --> 00:05:53.079
and crying and that kind I can't
help but be affected by that. But

80
00:05:53.199 --> 00:05:56.319
there's something that ties into this story, and I'll be brief about it.

81
00:05:57.279 --> 00:06:00.600
But again, in southern France,
there was the guy who works with helicopters

82
00:06:00.639 --> 00:06:09.439
and quadricopters that builds these star Trek
like flying devices and one is triangular shaped.

83
00:06:09.439 --> 00:06:12.480
It's got led lights on it.
He's been very proud of it.

84
00:06:12.639 --> 00:06:15.319
This guy has been creating stuff in
the south of France for a long time

85
00:06:15.480 --> 00:06:18.920
now, you know, kind of
like some of the guys we brought in

86
00:06:19.120 --> 00:06:25.319
from Germany back in the forties to
you know, help us out with rocket

87
00:06:25.360 --> 00:06:29.600
propulsion and things of that nature.
And it looks very much similar to what

88
00:06:29.720 --> 00:06:34.480
this guy described, So it could
be something you know, explainable here,

89
00:06:35.079 --> 00:06:40.040
but it also could be something else. Because in Pennsylvania they've got Bigfoot,

90
00:06:40.160 --> 00:06:43.759
they've got this dog man, you
know, lots of UFO, So I

91
00:06:43.800 --> 00:06:46.399
think move on level five. So
there could be something to it, Yeah,

92
00:06:46.519 --> 00:06:50.120
you do. You're right. You
hear all kinds of things about Pennsylvania

93
00:06:50.160 --> 00:06:56.120
and Bigfoot is no stranger there for
sure. So secondly, i'd like to

94
00:06:56.160 --> 00:07:00.480
talk about the SETI just had an
upgrade, and I think it's kind of

95
00:07:00.480 --> 00:07:03.439
funny if anyone is supporting the show, and they went in to look on

96
00:07:03.800 --> 00:07:09.680
our on get joy Ride. They
saw that I posted a debate with us

97
00:07:10.000 --> 00:07:14.240
Seth Shostack from SETI. I posted
it last week. It's still up there.

98
00:07:14.360 --> 00:07:16.519
If anyone is supporting the show,
they can listen and it's a UFO

99
00:07:16.639 --> 00:07:20.920
debate. And I talked to him
about sort of about this. Now they

100
00:07:21.040 --> 00:07:26.759
have this new on the radio telescope, so doing an infrared thing. It's

101
00:07:26.800 --> 00:07:29.720
an upgrade from just the radio waves. And that's one of the questions I

102
00:07:29.759 --> 00:07:31.160
asked him. I said, isn't
that kind of primitive, you know,

103
00:07:31.319 --> 00:07:36.800
if you're thinking civilizations are real advanced, way advanced of us, and you're

104
00:07:36.839 --> 00:07:41.360
looking for them in radio waves.
And he said, well, you know,

105
00:07:41.519 --> 00:07:43.839
basically he said, and I thought
he actually had a good point.

106
00:07:44.040 --> 00:07:46.680
He said that, well, it's
better than doing nothing. We're just exploring

107
00:07:46.720 --> 00:07:50.519
with what we know. And so
I have to agree. It was really

108
00:07:50.600 --> 00:07:54.480
hard to agree with that point,
but I do agree with that point.

109
00:07:56.199 --> 00:08:00.600
And did you Frank Drake. God, he's like eighty four years old or

110
00:08:00.639 --> 00:08:03.680
something, and I don't really agree
that much with the Drake equation and all

111
00:08:03.759 --> 00:08:07.920
that, but he is a pioneer
of SETI. Yeah, yeah, are

112
00:08:09.000 --> 00:08:11.800
you familiar with SETI at all?
There, Chip, I am, And

113
00:08:11.839 --> 00:08:18.199
you know, look, I gotta
be honest here because I like that they're

114
00:08:18.240 --> 00:08:24.000
thinking infrared. But this guy started
with radio. And if radio waves are

115
00:08:24.040 --> 00:08:28.959
moving at the speed of light,
then we've only hit what like maybe sixty

116
00:08:28.279 --> 00:08:33.480
light years. I mean, we're
in the asteroid belt maybe, so it'll

117
00:08:33.519 --> 00:08:37.000
take a while really before we could
reach the civilization that hears about radio.

118
00:08:37.679 --> 00:08:45.039
You know, but these guys are
more astronomers than Frank Drake is. You

119
00:08:45.120 --> 00:08:50.000
know, he's working with microwaves.
They're working with infrared, and from I

120
00:08:50.080 --> 00:08:54.559
don't know my experience, astronomers seem
to be kind of non believers. You

121
00:08:54.639 --> 00:09:01.279
know. They see what they see
and they don't see any evidence a life

122
00:09:01.360 --> 00:09:03.879
elsewhere, even though they're really looking
for it. And look, there's a

123
00:09:03.960 --> 00:09:09.840
lot of possibilities on the moons and
Jupiter and Saturn where they're seeing possibilities of

124
00:09:09.039 --> 00:09:13.120
water very similar to what we have, and there could be maybe microbial life,

125
00:09:13.159 --> 00:09:16.440
maybe even oceanic life. You know, I maybe there was something this

126
00:09:16.600 --> 00:09:20.639
week just discovered on Mars. I
don't know if you read that. Oh

127
00:09:20.759 --> 00:09:24.600
yeah, with the soil samples.
They kind of this is where kind of

128
00:09:24.759 --> 00:09:28.720
like this week, it's opposed to
last week where they're really making lemonade out

129
00:09:28.759 --> 00:09:33.679
of lemons. Something leaked into their
samples. But it turns out that they

130
00:09:33.799 --> 00:09:39.159
found two percent water, which means
there once was water there and could even

131
00:09:39.240 --> 00:09:43.399
be something underground. I mean,
there's a lot of possibilities. It seems

132
00:09:43.519 --> 00:09:48.799
like, you know, if they're
looking at the theory of panspermia, where

133
00:09:48.039 --> 00:09:52.279
we originated from somewhere else, like
an asteroid or something of the sort,

134
00:09:52.600 --> 00:09:56.440
it could have been Mars. Absolutely. Okay, we're ready to move on

135
00:09:56.600 --> 00:10:03.240
to the last story, and it's
Ministry of Defense helicopter chases four UFOs in

136
00:10:03.320 --> 00:10:07.759
England. This family was outdoors enjoying
a barbecue and all of a sudden they

137
00:10:07.840 --> 00:10:13.080
heard helicopter and they looked and it
was chasing UFOs through the sky. Now,

138
00:10:13.399 --> 00:10:18.960
the woman told her husband told her
son, I guess to run and

139
00:10:18.000 --> 00:10:22.080
get the camera. So he came
back and it was just a regular camera,

140
00:10:22.200 --> 00:10:24.720
nothing special, didn't have a zoom
or anything. They snapped a couple

141
00:10:24.759 --> 00:10:28.600
of photos. So if you look
at we have a picture right on our

142
00:10:28.799 --> 00:10:33.720
show notes or on our homepage on
PODCASTUFO dot com. And it looks just

143
00:10:33.919 --> 00:10:37.720
like what you would think of as
Amari Island sighting, which was actually before

144
00:10:37.919 --> 00:10:41.919
Roswell. Back in nineteen forty seven, they said they had these donut shaped

145
00:10:41.120 --> 00:10:46.519
UFOs that were flying over and one
of them started having trouble and started spilling

146
00:10:46.639 --> 00:10:50.759
like this lava stuff off of it
and landed on the boat, killed the

147
00:10:50.840 --> 00:10:54.039
dog, injured the boy, all
that stuff. Anyway, if you look

148
00:10:54.200 --> 00:10:56.879
at this picture, it's definitely one
of those donut shaped UFOs and they're back.

149
00:10:58.600 --> 00:11:03.759
Did you look at it? I
did, and look It's funny because

150
00:11:03.960 --> 00:11:09.159
if you look around the world,
there are many countries that take UFOs sightings

151
00:11:09.360 --> 00:11:13.759
and extraterrestrials much more seriously than we
do, and they're really out over it

152
00:11:15.279 --> 00:11:18.200
much more than the United States and
England. I mean, those are the

153
00:11:18.279 --> 00:11:22.919
two places that seems to be the
most reserved as far as admitting anything.

154
00:11:22.480 --> 00:11:26.759
It's a miracle. We got Project
blue Book, you know, which something

155
00:11:26.840 --> 00:11:31.200
we'll talk about in the Ghosts Versus
UFOs things later on the hour. I

156
00:11:31.320 --> 00:11:35.879
take it very seriously, this one, especially because things seem to come back

157
00:11:37.000 --> 00:11:41.120
to areas like England and Ireland,
you know, and maybe it's something from

158
00:11:41.919 --> 00:11:48.960
ancient times, but it just seems
like things tend to show up there that

159
00:11:48.120 --> 00:11:52.840
haven't shown up there in a long
time. And you know, the English,

160
00:11:52.879 --> 00:11:56.000
they don't really speak out much about
this sort of thing, so there

161
00:11:56.080 --> 00:11:58.440
has to be something to this one. I think. I remember, I'm

162
00:11:58.480 --> 00:12:03.559
trying to remember a gentleman's name.
His name was Simon Something. I interviewed

163
00:12:03.679 --> 00:12:07.320
him in England. He was in
an area of England that with really bad

164
00:12:07.440 --> 00:12:09.559
weather, and I said, have
you ever had a sight? And he

165
00:12:09.639 --> 00:12:16.919
goes, no, I never even
see the sky. That's hilarious. So

166
00:12:16.320 --> 00:12:20.039
hey, well you know that's it
for the news this week, and take

167
00:12:20.120 --> 00:12:24.720
that, Alejandro Rojas, we did
it. So hey, thanks Chip for

168
00:12:24.799 --> 00:12:30.399
helping me out there. And let's
get started with you because a number of

169
00:12:30.440 --> 00:12:31.879
my listeners have not a clue who
you are, So why don't you go

170
00:12:31.919 --> 00:12:37.399
ahead and give you a background?
Yeah. Absolutely, I'm actually more known

171
00:12:37.519 --> 00:12:43.200
for a paranormal guy, but I'm
very tied into the ufology and extraterrestrials and

172
00:12:43.200 --> 00:12:46.080
I have a lot of friends who
have been either what they call experiencers,

173
00:12:46.240 --> 00:12:52.240
which means they had either benign or
positive experiences was what they considered to be

174
00:12:52.559 --> 00:13:00.559
extraterrestrial beings and abductees. And I'm
also certified as a hypnotherapist. I'm familiar

175
00:13:00.600 --> 00:13:05.240
with some of the hypnosis techniques that
they use to talk to abductees. But

176
00:13:05.639 --> 00:13:11.639
I'm probably that best known as a
radio host, including a time here a

177
00:13:11.799 --> 00:13:15.960
very honor time on dark Matter on
a show called Keeping the Spirits Alive.

178
00:13:16.480 --> 00:13:20.399
I was co host with my buddy
John Tobin. I had opening editorials called

179
00:13:20.480 --> 00:13:24.559
Chipisms. I have a book published
that is more of a paranormal thing.

180
00:13:24.600 --> 00:13:26.759
It's called Even the Dead Won't tell
You the Truth. It's kind of a

181
00:13:26.919 --> 00:13:31.639
murder mystery that is from the point
of view of somebody who talks to dead

182
00:13:31.679 --> 00:13:37.440
people, and you got some first
person perspective there. But I've also written

183
00:13:37.440 --> 00:13:39.960
a couple of science fiction books,
and so I've done a lot of research

184
00:13:41.039 --> 00:13:45.679
on extraterrestrials and uithology and some of
the deeper stuff that you know, most

185
00:13:45.720 --> 00:13:52.440
people don't get to see. But
yeah, I'm currently hosting a show on

186
00:13:52.600 --> 00:13:56.159
the A and B Radio network called
Beyond the Norm where we talk about all

187
00:13:56.240 --> 00:14:01.440
aspects of paranormal and metaphysical and neoithology. Wow great. Wow, Well,

188
00:14:03.039 --> 00:14:05.240
it's great to have you on.
I've always enjoyed talking to you. Oh

189
00:14:05.440 --> 00:14:09.000
likewise, yeah, it's an honor, thank you, And let we were

190
00:14:09.039 --> 00:14:11.600
going to talk this week. I'm
trying to remember what the subjects were.

191
00:14:11.759 --> 00:14:15.799
One of them was you had a
sighting, so let's talk about that.

192
00:14:16.440 --> 00:14:20.360
Yeah. I did a couple of
them, actually, and the one I

193
00:14:20.480 --> 00:14:24.960
didn't mention to you maybe more profound
than the first one. But the first

194
00:14:26.000 --> 00:14:30.200
one when I was ten years old. I was with my best friend growing

195
00:14:30.279 --> 00:14:35.639
up and we were having an argument, which was very rare because we got

196
00:14:35.679 --> 00:14:39.559
along really well, and all of
a sudden, we saw this thing up

197
00:14:39.600 --> 00:14:43.799
in the sky and it was very
close to us. When I'm kind of

198
00:14:43.840 --> 00:14:48.080
old, so when I was ten, there's a show called Lost in Space

199
00:14:48.240 --> 00:14:52.559
on TV, and they had a
spaceship that looked at Yeah. Oh yeah,

200
00:14:52.720 --> 00:14:54.919
oh good, Hey Billy, Mummy
and I talk on Facebook now and

201
00:14:54.960 --> 00:15:00.200
then no kidding, Oh, everybody
thought I looked like him. It was

202
00:15:00.320 --> 00:15:03.320
like a kind of a twin of
his. So that's a wow, small

203
00:15:03.440 --> 00:15:09.399
world. Please send him my love
next time you talk to him. I

204
00:15:09.639 --> 00:15:11.360
invite him on this show. So
he decided to ignore me. Oh,

205
00:15:11.559 --> 00:15:16.559
don't you hate it when that happened? I know, right, But anyway,

206
00:15:16.759 --> 00:15:20.480
I mean, this thing was it
was almost exactly like the lost in

207
00:15:20.559 --> 00:15:24.399
spaceship. It was. It was
you know, round and kind of they

208
00:15:24.559 --> 00:15:28.399
I mean, it was close up
to us and there were multi colored lights

209
00:15:28.639 --> 00:15:31.879
about a third of the circumference of
this disc, and it hovered over us

210
00:15:33.000 --> 00:15:39.200
for maybe eleven seconds and then jolted
like quickly to the left and then quickly

211
00:15:39.360 --> 00:15:45.879
to like the southwest, and then
darted off and we just well, needless

212
00:15:45.919 --> 00:15:50.120
to say, it stopped our argument. But a couple of years later,

213
00:15:50.240 --> 00:15:54.360
we saw one and it was a
cloud in the sky, and it was

214
00:15:54.480 --> 00:15:58.919
the kind of day where the clouds
were moving along, but this one cloud

215
00:16:00.480 --> 00:16:06.039
stayed still and even other clouds were
penetrating through it. And even though we

216
00:16:06.120 --> 00:16:08.399
were rather young at the time,
still it was I think we were thirteen,

217
00:16:10.039 --> 00:16:12.000
you know. It was over a
buddy's house in the same neighborhood,

218
00:16:12.960 --> 00:16:18.639
and it really for about three hours
just hovered there. Wow. And then

219
00:16:18.799 --> 00:16:23.600
like we all I don't know,
got distracted and we turned and the thing

220
00:16:23.759 --> 00:16:29.080
was gone. And I'm thinking,
you know, if you talk abduction cases

221
00:16:29.200 --> 00:16:32.720
or things like that, where other
neighbors don't see this thing a lot of

222
00:16:32.799 --> 00:16:37.120
times, and you know, maybe
if they're hovering in some sort of cloud

223
00:16:37.200 --> 00:16:40.399
type of thing, you know,
then maybe they could get away with a

224
00:16:40.440 --> 00:16:42.759
lot of stuff that way. How
about that? Well, I want to

225
00:16:42.799 --> 00:16:48.159
remind everyone who's listening live, you
can jump over to podcastufo dot com.

226
00:16:48.600 --> 00:16:51.399
Right on the right hand side.
There's a chat room. You can jump

227
00:16:51.480 --> 00:16:55.000
in there and you can ask our
guests question. It's really easy sign up.

228
00:16:55.759 --> 00:16:57.919
So, Chip, So, how
did that? Did you talk about

229
00:16:57.960 --> 00:17:03.200
it with your friends a lot after
that happened? Yeah, we did,

230
00:17:03.480 --> 00:17:10.119
you know, And look it's at
a time where, I mean, you

231
00:17:10.279 --> 00:17:14.200
just didn't talk about that stuff.
So it was I mean the first sighting

232
00:17:14.319 --> 00:17:17.519
was my best buddy and I Yeah, we talked about that one a lot.

233
00:17:17.920 --> 00:17:19.960
We thought it was cool, you
know, because it tied into Lost

234
00:17:21.000 --> 00:17:22.599
in Space, and it was like
our favorite show at the time, you

235
00:17:22.640 --> 00:17:26.720
know, I mean, that was
a big, huge show in its day.

236
00:17:27.400 --> 00:17:32.200
You know. It's like everybody at
school talked about it, you know,

237
00:17:32.319 --> 00:17:34.119
the next day. It was that
sort of thing. But we didn't

238
00:17:34.119 --> 00:17:37.559
really talk about it with other people
that much. We mentioned it to our

239
00:17:37.640 --> 00:17:42.079
parents, and our parents each encouraged
us to kind of keep it quiet because

240
00:17:42.119 --> 00:17:45.480
that's the type of thing that might
give you a freak label or get you

241
00:17:45.559 --> 00:17:51.480
ostracized, just like a paranormal experience. You know, in that day and

242
00:17:51.519 --> 00:17:53.559
age, you just didn't mention it. So we kind of kept mom on

243
00:17:53.680 --> 00:18:00.200
it. But for me, when
other people talk about sightings, you know,

244
00:18:00.359 --> 00:18:03.519
there's still even in this day and
age where everything seems out there on

245
00:18:03.599 --> 00:18:07.319
the internet and even the news has
to be a little TMI now, you

246
00:18:07.400 --> 00:18:14.319
know, it still comes with some
risk when you talk about sightings or abductions

247
00:18:14.400 --> 00:18:18.240
or experiences or anything of that nature. So I look, I tend to

248
00:18:19.079 --> 00:18:22.640
take it at face value if somebody
comes out and says something, you know,

249
00:18:22.759 --> 00:18:27.480
because I'm dealing with people that go
to haunted houses and see apparitions for

250
00:18:27.519 --> 00:18:33.200
a living, you know, and
there's a lot of similarities in some of

251
00:18:33.279 --> 00:18:38.039
the I kind of pay attention to
some of the quantum physics because there's some

252
00:18:38.240 --> 00:18:42.319
potential explanations. I don't think we're
quite there yet, but maybe in fifty

253
00:18:42.400 --> 00:18:45.759
years or so, you know,
things will get clearer. And the physics

254
00:18:45.799 --> 00:18:52.359
that we're learning at CERN in Geneva
and the way particles go about and maybe

255
00:18:52.480 --> 00:18:57.200
wroomholes and multiple universes and stuff like
that. You know, everything will make

256
00:18:57.279 --> 00:19:02.400
a lot more sense. But yeah, I'm a believer, but I'll tell

257
00:19:02.400 --> 00:19:08.039
you what. It makes no some
of quantum physics, quantum mechanics and you

258
00:19:08.200 --> 00:19:14.240
make absolutely no sense. Well that's
you know what kills me about It is

259
00:19:14.519 --> 00:19:19.599
look, and especially as either a
ghost or a UFO or ET guy,

260
00:19:21.799 --> 00:19:25.359
you look at electricity. Nobody really
knows how it works. They just know

261
00:19:25.519 --> 00:19:29.839
that it works. It's something that's
an energy. They can't see, microwaves,

262
00:19:30.160 --> 00:19:33.319
radio signals, you know, in
for red lights. These are all

263
00:19:33.400 --> 00:19:37.160
things that we can't see, but
we're perfectly acceptable of, especially science.

264
00:19:37.680 --> 00:19:41.680
And it just seems that, you
know, science right now thinks it's got

265
00:19:42.200 --> 00:19:45.680
its bearings, you know. I
mean in the fifteen hundreds, they thought

266
00:19:45.720 --> 00:19:49.880
they knew everything when the world was
flat, right, you know. So,

267
00:19:51.559 --> 00:19:55.200
I mean it just seems in each
day and age, we think that

268
00:19:55.319 --> 00:19:59.160
the physics that we have or the
science that we have is the end all

269
00:19:59.279 --> 00:20:03.279
know all, you know, And
these guys are talking about spokey action at

270
00:20:03.319 --> 00:20:07.000
a distance, but they won't they
won't entertain ghosts. That kills me a

271
00:20:07.039 --> 00:20:12.200
little bit. I actually am starting
to believe that it's possible that apparitions or

272
00:20:12.279 --> 00:20:18.079
ghosts could actually be living people in
a time work because our physics is starting

273
00:20:18.200 --> 00:20:23.559
to go there. I like,
now they're talking about this multiverse theory.

274
00:20:25.000 --> 00:20:29.000
If our universe is infinite, then
just by definition, there has to be

275
00:20:29.079 --> 00:20:34.039
an infinite amount of universes parallel to
ours, and these travelers could possibly come

276
00:20:34.119 --> 00:20:41.799
from completely different universes through wormholes.
And what they say about these multiverses.

277
00:20:41.920 --> 00:20:48.079
You know, each potential universe has
its own space and time, so a

278
00:20:48.279 --> 00:20:52.599
universe parallel to ours could be us
ten years ago, you know, or

279
00:20:52.680 --> 00:20:56.880
one hundred years ago. And maybe
sometimes those things meld and we see people

280
00:20:57.000 --> 00:21:00.920
from the eighteen nineties, you know, or the nineteen sixties telling us to

281
00:21:00.960 --> 00:21:07.440
get out of their house. I
think some of these extraterrestrial sightings could also

282
00:21:07.559 --> 00:21:12.519
be that. I mean, some
of that stuff makes sense because of the

283
00:21:14.000 --> 00:21:18.119
black holes. I look, I'm
an Einstein guy. I like what he

284
00:21:18.200 --> 00:21:22.119
said and what he did, and
some of this wroomhole thing, I mean,

285
00:21:23.240 --> 00:21:29.759
opening stargates is a very likely possible
thing. But the people that report

286
00:21:30.039 --> 00:21:34.759
the extraterrestrial sightings, and I especially
pay attention to experiencers, those who have

287
00:21:34.880 --> 00:21:41.039
had either benign or positive sightings.
Because I'm a good guy and I like

288
00:21:41.160 --> 00:21:45.440
positive things, so I pay attention
to them. But also with abductees,

289
00:21:47.039 --> 00:21:53.279
and every case seems similar in that
they're communicating with us telepathically. And look,

290
00:21:53.359 --> 00:21:57.279
I work with a lot of psychics. Psychics use this thing in their

291
00:21:57.400 --> 00:22:02.440
brain called the pineal gland. It's
like the third eye, you know,

292
00:22:02.599 --> 00:22:07.680
in meditation and things like that.
It opens them up. And there's some

293
00:22:07.880 --> 00:22:15.480
conspiracy theories, interestingly enough, that
seem to kind of kill that theory,

294
00:22:18.400 --> 00:22:25.480
you know, But I just I
like to think that if we can better

295
00:22:25.680 --> 00:22:30.119
use our pineal glands. It says
that there's fluoride in the water. These

296
00:22:30.160 --> 00:22:37.079
conspiracy theories, by the way,
sorry I drifted there from and TV,

297
00:22:37.279 --> 00:22:41.920
early television, is all designed to
kill our peneal glands. So we're more

298
00:22:42.880 --> 00:22:48.720
determined to follow others and not be
individuals but be part of a group,

299
00:22:48.279 --> 00:22:56.519
you know. So it's kind of
interesting to note that some of these extraterrestrials,

300
00:22:56.640 --> 00:23:00.599
especially the most positive ones, are
these light beams. They don't even

301
00:23:00.720 --> 00:23:03.279
need their own bodies to travel.
They can do it with their minds and

302
00:23:03.440 --> 00:23:08.160
use their minds to communicate, and
these grays that the abductees talk about,

303
00:23:10.240 --> 00:23:12.880
they function like a group of insects
almost. You know, there seems to

304
00:23:12.960 --> 00:23:17.559
be a queen bee, and there's
drones, and there's workers. They're not

305
00:23:17.720 --> 00:23:22.480
emotional, they're doing their job.
It's like the way we would treat monkeys

306
00:23:22.519 --> 00:23:26.480
in a science lab. It's kind
of the same thing. And you know,

307
00:23:26.599 --> 00:23:32.640
look, if we're going to grow
to be as advanced as these extraterrestrials

308
00:23:32.720 --> 00:23:36.359
seemingly, then we would have to
maybe one hundred, two hundred, three

309
00:23:36.440 --> 00:23:41.359
hundred years from now, be even
more superior. And they're saying that our

310
00:23:41.440 --> 00:23:45.960
heads will get bigger and our eyes
could get bigger. These could be us

311
00:23:45.000 --> 00:23:51.799
from the future, you know,
recreating their own great great great great great

312
00:23:51.880 --> 00:23:53.960
great grandchildren. I mean, we
don't know that. Yeah, I've actually

313
00:23:55.240 --> 00:23:59.640
I think I've actually said that before, only only because I was listening to

314
00:23:59.799 --> 00:24:04.720
a scientists talk about you know,
the difference in a billion years from now

315
00:24:06.079 --> 00:24:10.240
is like a difference from billion years
in the past, that we will be

316
00:24:10.440 --> 00:24:14.880
unrecognizable, you know, I mean
if if the evolution, if evolution,

317
00:24:15.559 --> 00:24:21.920
you know, moves forward, it's
just natural science that we will be completely

318
00:24:22.039 --> 00:24:25.839
what we're not if they actually survive
that is well, yeah, and it

319
00:24:25.920 --> 00:24:30.000
doesn't look likely. And and look, I saw the show the other night

320
00:24:30.079 --> 00:24:33.640
about the end of days, and
yeah, you look from ancient times.

321
00:24:33.880 --> 00:24:37.839
You know, you've got Hope,
the Indians and all these the Egyptians and

322
00:24:38.400 --> 00:24:44.079
uh, you know, all these
ancient societies that all had kind of their

323
00:24:44.200 --> 00:24:47.400
end of day's thing. And it's
very similar to you know, the Bible,

324
00:24:47.519 --> 00:24:52.799
then the New Testament and the Koran
each have their own version, but

325
00:24:52.039 --> 00:24:56.920
in each version they're the good guys
who are alive at the end and for

326
00:24:56.039 --> 00:25:00.160
everybody to come together as a society, that's the any cri So that can't

327
00:25:00.240 --> 00:25:06.079
happen because whoever makes that happen is
the ultimate evil. So it's really set

328
00:25:06.160 --> 00:25:10.720
up for us not to survive as
a society. And in order to do

329
00:25:10.880 --> 00:25:15.559
that once we genetically create and boy, I hate to say that, because

330
00:25:15.640 --> 00:25:19.079
Martin, I mean, we could
be the last real human beings in existence

331
00:25:19.480 --> 00:25:22.680
for all we know. We don't
know if they've really cloned us yet,

332
00:25:23.000 --> 00:25:27.680
are what they're doing with that technology
which they do have, And look,

333
00:25:27.759 --> 00:25:33.279
it's banned in this country but not
around the world, So they could already

334
00:25:33.359 --> 00:25:37.519
be a better, stronger, smarter
us that they're working on. And once

335
00:25:37.559 --> 00:25:41.160
they do that, the best way
to survive as a new society in a

336
00:25:41.240 --> 00:25:45.200
superior society is to function like insects, like bees, like a it's or

337
00:25:45.240 --> 00:25:49.359
they function as one brain, you
know. And there's no good or evil

338
00:25:49.720 --> 00:25:53.400
in any of these encounters. And
I don't know, you probably have heard

339
00:25:53.440 --> 00:25:57.440
differently, but in all the people
that I've talked to, both with abductee

340
00:25:57.640 --> 00:26:03.240
and experience er type of you know, encounters, they seem to think that

341
00:26:03.880 --> 00:26:07.039
there is no good and evil in
any of these beings. You know,

342
00:26:07.559 --> 00:26:11.640
they're either here to help us or
here to hurt us. But it's not

343
00:26:11.960 --> 00:26:15.079
like personal or there's no supreme being. And if there is, it's a

344
00:26:15.200 --> 00:26:18.359
queen bee type of thing, you
know. But there's no good in evil

345
00:26:18.680 --> 00:26:23.559
in the in the extraterrestrial community,
seemingly just like there's no good and evil

346
00:26:25.079 --> 00:26:29.920
in the animal kingdom. There's no
good and evil in the universe with planets

347
00:26:29.960 --> 00:26:34.599
and stars, you know. So
what do you think about the singularity fairy?

348
00:26:37.440 --> 00:26:40.960
Are you familiar with that? You
remind me, please, Well,

349
00:26:41.000 --> 00:26:45.640
it's basically where man in machine kind
of emerge. Oh, man, No,

350
00:26:45.839 --> 00:26:49.160
I hope that doesn't happen. That
can't go well. It just simply

351
00:26:49.200 --> 00:26:53.079
can't go well. And look that
they just I saw today they have a

352
00:26:53.200 --> 00:26:57.359
Mercedes that drives itself. Oh yeah, yeah, well they've had an Audi

353
00:26:57.559 --> 00:27:03.640
and BMW drive themselves. Actually they
had a car go with a driver in

354
00:27:03.720 --> 00:27:07.960
it from coast to coast. I
think I had something to do with something

355
00:27:07.079 --> 00:27:14.079
Google was doing and completely untouched,
you know, by human hands, just

356
00:27:14.519 --> 00:27:17.000
it went on its own. Really. Oh yeah, there was a driver

357
00:27:17.119 --> 00:27:21.319
inside just in case, just in
case. That scares the heck out of

358
00:27:21.400 --> 00:27:26.000
me. And I saw a cartoon
of all things called Wall E and it

359
00:27:26.279 --> 00:27:30.680
was a futuristic type thing where robots
cleaned up our garbage and we couldn't even

360
00:27:30.799 --> 00:27:34.119
walk because we're in these flying machines
with computers just you know, glued to

361
00:27:34.240 --> 00:27:37.440
our computers and our phones because we
didn't have to. There was nothing for

362
00:27:37.559 --> 00:27:41.039
us to do. Everything's automated,
so there's no need for us to work.

363
00:27:41.359 --> 00:27:48.839
And we just became this kind of
narcissistic waste of a pleasure seeking society.

364
00:27:48.400 --> 00:27:52.359
And look, I'm a pleasure seeker, so I don't want to give

365
00:27:52.400 --> 00:27:55.680
that a bad rep You know,
but that scared the daylights out of me,

366
00:27:55.799 --> 00:27:59.480
because that's closer to truth than any
movie that I've seen about the future,

367
00:27:59.559 --> 00:28:03.000
you know, and when a cartoon
kind of outdes a good science fiction,

368
00:28:03.559 --> 00:28:07.720
that's some scary stuff, you know. I like what Stephen Hawking thinks,

369
00:28:08.240 --> 00:28:14.559
you know, with either singularity or
trying to reach out to other societies.

370
00:28:15.039 --> 00:28:17.759
I have a little difficulty with that
one because I think there are some

371
00:28:17.920 --> 00:28:21.400
good ones out there. Just by
probability alone, there has to be some,

372
00:28:22.160 --> 00:28:25.720
you know. One of the things
he says that that I never really

373
00:28:25.920 --> 00:28:29.799
liked. It's like only kooks and
nuts, you know, cufos. You

374
00:28:29.880 --> 00:28:33.119
know, that part's not so good. But yeah, I like that though.

375
00:28:33.119 --> 00:28:36.799
I'll happily be a kook and nut
in that case. You know,

376
00:28:37.200 --> 00:28:40.240
you got to wear it with some
pride, I think, because look,

377
00:28:40.359 --> 00:28:44.359
you have to think outside of the
box. Yeah, well, yeah,

378
00:28:44.440 --> 00:28:48.720
that's for sure. Well let's talk
a little bit about your talking about abductees,

379
00:28:48.559 --> 00:28:52.720
because I actually have a friend that
she might even be listening tonight.

380
00:28:52.799 --> 00:28:57.400
She listens to every show and she
is studying right now. She had a

381
00:28:57.480 --> 00:29:02.240
major citing or a couple of them
when she was young and we were actually

382
00:29:02.319 --> 00:29:07.400
born on the very same day,
on the very same hour. Wow,

383
00:29:07.759 --> 00:29:11.559
very same city, Boston. That's
cool, and you both in the very

384
00:29:11.720 --> 00:29:15.599
same line of work. Kind of
yeah, we just kind of She found

385
00:29:15.640 --> 00:29:19.000
me on Facebook and you know,
listened to the show and saw my birthdate,

386
00:29:19.079 --> 00:29:22.119
and then we started talking. It
was like, where were you born

387
00:29:22.160 --> 00:29:25.000
Boston? Where were you born in
Boston? What time were you born?

388
00:29:25.519 --> 00:29:30.640
Nine? Nine thirty? I was
born at nine Bizarre. But anyway,

389
00:29:32.000 --> 00:29:37.039
she is right now studying to be
a hypnotherapist and wants to get involved with

390
00:29:38.640 --> 00:29:42.039
with the abductees. Now I want
to I want to talk to you first

391
00:29:42.039 --> 00:29:45.599
of all, going back to your
childhood. I just want to know where

392
00:29:45.599 --> 00:29:49.200
you grew up. Oh, I
grew up in New Albany, New York.

393
00:29:49.839 --> 00:29:53.279
It's a suburb of Albany. It's
the capital of the Empire State.

394
00:29:53.839 --> 00:30:00.880
It's kind of midway between New York
City and Montreal, a kind of dead

395
00:30:00.960 --> 00:30:06.200
center between them and very dull community
really because we're the political capital, you

396
00:30:06.279 --> 00:30:11.640
know, so politicians get in trouble
and none of us can act that way

397
00:30:11.720 --> 00:30:17.480
ever again, so kind of a
double place. But yeah, but at

398
00:30:17.599 --> 00:30:22.039
least we had a couple of UFO
sightings. Someone wants to know on the

399
00:30:22.119 --> 00:30:23.839
board, and it may even be
the person I'm talking about here, it's

400
00:30:23.880 --> 00:30:30.200
all nice. She wants to know
how many let's see, how many hypnotherapy

401
00:30:30.319 --> 00:30:37.599
sessions do you do with a client. Well, it really depends because there

402
00:30:37.640 --> 00:30:45.039
are different focuses. You know,
My main focuses were past life regression,

403
00:30:45.480 --> 00:30:49.559
and some of that is kind of
similar to the techniques they use when they

404
00:30:49.680 --> 00:30:56.720
talk to abductees. Look and look, there's weight loss and smoking cessation and

405
00:30:57.039 --> 00:31:04.880
pain management or feeling better about your
job performance or confidence and things of that

406
00:31:06.119 --> 00:31:11.200
nature. But when you're talking to
an abductee, and I want to kind

407
00:31:11.240 --> 00:31:14.000
of keep it at least for the
listener's sake and for your friend's sake,

408
00:31:14.079 --> 00:31:19.440
which I think is so cool,
by the way. Look, I've seen

409
00:31:19.519 --> 00:31:25.400
it on documentaries, you know,
there's these guys that the experience was so

410
00:31:25.759 --> 00:31:32.880
traumatic that they blocked it out and
that kind of hysterical associative. It's a

411
00:31:32.960 --> 00:31:38.599
neurotic reaction. Actually, it's in
the DSM. It's a psychiatric manual as

412
00:31:38.640 --> 00:31:44.400
a disorder. So it's very you
have to be kind of tender in bringing

413
00:31:44.480 --> 00:31:48.079
these things back in. But a
lot of non believers watching will say,

414
00:31:48.160 --> 00:31:52.079
well, it's a very suggestive process. So of course they're going to make

415
00:31:52.160 --> 00:31:56.440
up a story because you tell them
to make a story up. And here's

416
00:31:56.519 --> 00:32:00.920
the thing, especially for your friend
that's listening, you really have to watch

417
00:32:01.039 --> 00:32:09.880
your language so you don't have them
create a memory. You have to keep

418
00:32:09.920 --> 00:32:15.119
the language very plain as you bring
them under. And look, hypnosis is

419
00:32:15.240 --> 00:32:19.160
not this spooky thing. I mean, if you drive from Boston to New

420
00:32:19.279 --> 00:32:22.240
York City Martin and you know,
three hours go by, and you go,

421
00:32:22.359 --> 00:32:25.480
wow, that was quick. It
was like I wasn't even thinking then

422
00:32:25.519 --> 00:32:29.160
all of a sudden, I'm here. Well, you've been in a hypnotic

423
00:32:29.200 --> 00:32:34.240
state. Most of the things that
we do we're doing with our subconscious mind.

424
00:32:34.359 --> 00:32:37.039
Tying our shoes, using silverware,
when we eat. These are all

425
00:32:37.119 --> 00:32:40.039
things that we learned at a young
age and now they're kind of we do

426
00:32:40.200 --> 00:32:45.480
it automatically. So that's a subconscious
process. Really, our subconscious mind is

427
00:32:45.559 --> 00:32:52.279
in charge ninety five percent of the
time, and it's this supercomputer basically that

428
00:32:52.440 --> 00:32:54.640
keeps track of all of our senses. Everything we've ever seen, smell,

429
00:32:54.880 --> 00:33:00.680
felt, tasted, or touched is
in this supercomputer. But this per computer

430
00:33:00.920 --> 00:33:07.640
has the emotional inability of maybe a
two year old child, and it's being

431
00:33:07.799 --> 00:33:17.200
safeguarded by this judgment belief. You
know, things that you really groove up

432
00:33:17.720 --> 00:33:21.680
taught, you know, to believe
or not to believe. You know,

433
00:33:22.079 --> 00:33:25.880
we might have religion that tells us
we can't think about certain things because that's

434
00:33:25.920 --> 00:33:30.920
evil and you can't get involved in
them. We have friends and neighbors to

435
00:33:30.039 --> 00:33:34.799
say the same thing. So you
know, really your own experience, anything

436
00:33:34.880 --> 00:33:37.799
that you experience, comes from all
this stuff, and all that stuff is

437
00:33:37.960 --> 00:33:44.720
blocking the supercomputer, even though it's
used ninety five percent of the time.

438
00:33:45.319 --> 00:33:50.079
So you have to use some very
ginger and special ways to get through that

439
00:33:51.079 --> 00:33:59.759
cloud of judgment and belief and relax
your patient into kind of a very relaxed

440
00:33:59.799 --> 00:34:02.039
state. And there are some people
who live, well, you'll never hypnotize

441
00:34:02.119 --> 00:34:07.240
me because I'm always thinking. So
you have them do a mathematical problem in

442
00:34:07.279 --> 00:34:13.079
their head while you're feeding them this
calm information. It's all about relaxation,

443
00:34:13.400 --> 00:34:17.000
I mean, really, that's it. You get them to relax and you

444
00:34:17.159 --> 00:34:24.360
can focus on reprogramming that supercomputer so
you'll allow it to not want to have

445
00:34:24.480 --> 00:34:29.400
a cigarette or not want to eat
so much or to go back to a

446
00:34:29.519 --> 00:34:32.760
previous life. And the thing is, and I'll tell you, I thought

447
00:34:32.800 --> 00:34:36.960
that was the biggest bunk in the
world, past life aggression hypnosis. I

448
00:34:37.079 --> 00:34:39.159
thought it was the dumbest thing I
ever heard back when I was in college,

449
00:34:39.719 --> 00:34:43.800
you know. But over the years
and as I learned what it's really

450
00:34:43.880 --> 00:34:49.119
about, it's actually kind of a
cathartic process, you know, because you

451
00:34:49.199 --> 00:34:54.760
can answer questions that have been puzzling
you all your life, and so it

452
00:34:55.239 --> 00:35:00.880
kind of fills holes, you know. And I don't want to get into

453
00:35:00.960 --> 00:35:05.079
it too much, but all I
can say is, once I've learned the

454
00:35:05.159 --> 00:35:08.199
process, it doesn't matter if they've
actually had this form of life. Personally,

455
00:35:08.239 --> 00:35:13.079
I do believe in it. From
what I've worked with with spirit mediums

456
00:35:13.159 --> 00:35:16.199
and you know, psychics and even
paranormal investigators. You know, there is

457
00:35:16.320 --> 00:35:21.360
something to that, and it is
very possible. And that kind of goes

458
00:35:21.400 --> 00:35:24.079
into the ghost versus UFO thing we'll
talk about in a little while. But

459
00:35:24.639 --> 00:35:30.760
here, when you see somebody in
a documentary getting somebody who's been an abductee

460
00:35:31.239 --> 00:35:36.480
who's blocked it out traumatically, it's
a very ginger thing, you know,

461
00:35:37.599 --> 00:35:43.679
in the hypnosis community, especially in
hypnotherapy, it's very dangerous to work with

462
00:35:43.880 --> 00:35:52.360
people who have been diagnosed as bipolar
or psychotic. Nothing against my bipolar and

463
00:35:52.440 --> 00:35:57.920
psychotic friends, you know, Hey, everybody's got some good sides to them.

464
00:35:58.119 --> 00:36:02.119
You know, that's my thing.
But a lot of people see this

465
00:36:02.239 --> 00:36:06.000
and say, well, you know
it's there. It's a suggestive thing,

466
00:36:06.079 --> 00:36:09.519
and of course they're creating it.
But no, because these these hypnotherapists that

467
00:36:09.719 --> 00:36:15.639
have worked on these abductees to get
these traumatic things out, it's a very

468
00:36:15.719 --> 00:36:21.400
specialized and ginger process. And the
people that are studying hypnotherapy have to learn

469
00:36:21.480 --> 00:36:24.920
a lot of psychology and even psychiatry, you know, and some of some

470
00:36:25.079 --> 00:36:30.280
of even the basic things, so
you know where the boundaries are. And

471
00:36:30.960 --> 00:36:36.039
there's even you can even use a
subliminal thing. Uh, you know if

472
00:36:36.239 --> 00:36:42.000
if you say you are going deeper, you can hide it and sentences.

473
00:36:42.239 --> 00:36:46.840
You know, you are thinking about
a coffee cup and you are looking at

474
00:36:46.880 --> 00:36:52.159
that coffee cup, and as you
think about that, you go deeper.

475
00:36:52.280 --> 00:36:59.599
So those four accentuated words you are
going deeper are kind of supplanted in your

476
00:36:59.679 --> 00:37:04.360
method. There's I mean, there's
so much to this that I really have

477
00:37:04.639 --> 00:37:09.199
to kind of defend the process.
And I actually think not only is it

478
00:37:09.440 --> 00:37:15.039
actually happening, and these people are
really they're not making this stuff up because

479
00:37:15.079 --> 00:37:20.360
they're told to. We have to
watch that language very carefully. We have

480
00:37:20.519 --> 00:37:28.320
to make sure that we keep them
from suggestibility but allow them to feel relaxed

481
00:37:28.519 --> 00:37:31.079
about some of the things that have
been haunting them, kind of like the

482
00:37:31.119 --> 00:37:36.880
past life regression hypnosis. It's a
very cathartic type of thing. And even

483
00:37:36.920 --> 00:37:39.679
though you see the guys in some
of these documented that they're crying and all

484
00:37:39.800 --> 00:37:44.920
they you know, they're they're meeting
kids with grays and you know, and

485
00:37:45.000 --> 00:37:50.159
they're remembering being stabbed and hurt and
you know, all these things while with

486
00:37:50.280 --> 00:37:53.920
these non emotive beings, you know, working on their reproductive system for you

487
00:37:54.239 --> 00:37:58.840
without their permission and stealing them from
their homes. I mean, you know,

488
00:37:59.719 --> 00:38:02.079
look, I would love to meet
an extraterrestrial someday. I think it

489
00:38:02.119 --> 00:38:06.039
would be an honor, But I
don't think i'd like to be prodded,

490
00:38:06.360 --> 00:38:08.320
you know, like some of these
people, or or you know, just

491
00:38:08.400 --> 00:38:16.199
abducted without permission. So if you
assume that it's true and it has happened

492
00:38:16.199 --> 00:38:21.400
to these people. And again we're
talking about if they come out you know,

493
00:38:21.559 --> 00:38:23.880
to anybody, friends, neighbors,
to you know, who are they

494
00:38:23.920 --> 00:38:29.199
going to tell cops, you know, their pastors or priests or whatever.

495
00:38:30.480 --> 00:38:37.519
You know. I mean, they're
going to take some plaque and there their

496
00:38:37.039 --> 00:38:42.440
authority in society is going to be
clouded by that. So it's kind of

497
00:38:42.480 --> 00:38:45.920
a thing where you can't win,
you know, for losing Ki. A

498
00:38:46.039 --> 00:38:50.480
couple of things. First of all, thanks for all that explanation. And

499
00:38:50.599 --> 00:38:52.800
I have to say, you know, I'm not afraid to say this that

500
00:38:53.199 --> 00:38:55.639
I've never said it on the show
or anything, but you know, I

501
00:38:55.719 --> 00:39:00.679
did go to therapy. I did
not have the best of childhood. So

502
00:39:00.920 --> 00:39:05.840
I went to therapy for a good
a good while. And I know that

503
00:39:06.039 --> 00:39:08.559
I was led astray by that therapist. You know. Oh I'm so sorry.

504
00:39:08.760 --> 00:39:13.599
Well I was so big on psychology, but I'm not big on the

505
00:39:13.639 --> 00:39:16.679
practice. I think, no,
seriously, and I'm not afraid to say

506
00:39:16.719 --> 00:39:22.800
it. Look, I worked in
a nonprofit teaching computer skills and vocational skills

507
00:39:22.840 --> 00:39:28.360
to schizophrenics, you know, and
there are such a stigma against schizophrenics.

508
00:39:29.000 --> 00:39:34.400
Again, they can't win for losing
and in the most primitive tribal societies,

509
00:39:34.519 --> 00:39:40.000
if somebody has a psychotic thing,
you know, a psychotic break, the

510
00:39:40.239 --> 00:39:46.840
entire community comes together and it's none
of the behaviors are addressed or blamed on

511
00:39:46.960 --> 00:39:52.880
the persons. It's an evil spirit. So the entire community comes together with

512
00:39:52.039 --> 00:39:58.199
a medicine man or shaman and very
nurturing factor, you know, the support

513
00:39:58.400 --> 00:40:02.920
and nurturing is there, and they
can eliminate this behavior and drive that evil

514
00:40:04.000 --> 00:40:08.480
spirit out in a matter of weeks
or days. So they've basically cured a

515
00:40:08.559 --> 00:40:14.360
psychotic illness in less than a month. Here in this society with the way

516
00:40:14.400 --> 00:40:15.800
we treat it, where if you
think there's something wrong with you, you

517
00:40:16.039 --> 00:40:20.039
have to go to somebody smarter than
you to say, oh, yeah,

518
00:40:20.360 --> 00:40:23.199
you're screwed up. How are you
going to come out of that? Our

519
00:40:23.320 --> 00:40:30.000
psychotic disorders have on average cure ratio
of twenty seven years. Brother, because

520
00:40:30.239 --> 00:40:36.920
the way the therapy works or doesn't
work well. I was saying that people,

521
00:40:37.400 --> 00:40:39.960
I just thought i'd chime in,
you know, because you're a long

522
00:40:40.039 --> 00:40:45.320
winded guy, and you know,
no, that's good because whenever I need

523
00:40:45.400 --> 00:40:49.800
you back again and I need to
fill some time. Oh yeah, I'm

524
00:40:49.880 --> 00:40:52.519
just using you man, But no, just say Chip, how you doing?

525
00:40:52.599 --> 00:40:55.559
And you've got three hours, you
know. But no, I wanted

526
00:40:55.639 --> 00:40:59.679
I didn't want to leave me,
you know, hanging when I just said

527
00:40:59.719 --> 00:41:02.679
that remark. I also wanted to
say that I ended up going to someone

528
00:41:02.760 --> 00:41:07.719
that corrected all the time I lost
and everything. So it ended up being

529
00:41:07.800 --> 00:41:10.519
a really good thing. But I
didn't recognize what I was going to get

530
00:41:10.519 --> 00:41:15.000
at. And my point is I
wasn't recognizing that this was happening, that

531
00:41:15.159 --> 00:41:19.679
I was being led down a wrong
path, and I started believing things that

532
00:41:20.119 --> 00:41:24.760
never really happened to me and all
that, and belie the truth. The

533
00:41:24.840 --> 00:41:29.159
truth is tough. Nobody wants to
hear the truth. Yeah. But but

534
00:41:29.480 --> 00:41:34.880
but the bottom line is, I
wonder that must happen if someone is not

535
00:41:35.559 --> 00:41:38.559
really on the on the mark with
hypnotherapy. And let me just ask you

536
00:41:38.639 --> 00:41:49.679
this. I think that it's very
possible that some people that uh use hypnotherapy

537
00:41:49.920 --> 00:41:58.159
on abductees possibly do lead them.
I'm not saying that. I'm not saying

538
00:41:58.239 --> 00:42:00.519
that nearly all them or something,
but I'm saying that some of them,

539
00:42:00.880 --> 00:42:05.360
I'm sure do because it's just kind
of human nature. If you're not,

540
00:42:05.960 --> 00:42:08.400
yeah, I know, but I'm
saying for the sake of the documentaries that

541
00:42:08.480 --> 00:42:13.360
I've seen. Look, there's some
good documentaries out there now, I mean

542
00:42:13.440 --> 00:42:16.280
really good, pretty much from two
thousand and eight up. They've been next

543
00:42:16.400 --> 00:42:20.559
level and you watch some of them
and you go, oh my god,

544
00:42:20.920 --> 00:42:22.360
you know, what kind of world
do I live in? I mean,

545
00:42:22.800 --> 00:42:27.599
I absolutely believe. I think one
hundred percent of the people in this country

546
00:42:27.679 --> 00:42:30.000
believe that their government has lied to
them one way or another. Even though

547
00:42:30.119 --> 00:42:35.559
the statistics say about seventy percent,
I think it's one hundred percent, you

548
00:42:35.639 --> 00:42:38.119
know, So you just really never
know. But in a situation like that,

549
00:42:38.440 --> 00:42:42.880
admittedly, look it's a crapshoot,
you know, but I think that

550
00:42:44.719 --> 00:42:49.119
we're all born with instinct, even
if we come in to where we are

551
00:42:49.239 --> 00:42:52.519
now a little broken. You know. Look, everybody's broken in one way

552
00:42:52.599 --> 00:42:59.360
or another. Everybody's been traumatized or
hurt or feels inferior. And the reality

553
00:42:59.480 --> 00:43:04.880
is that we all want to be
respected, you know. Heard, I'm

554
00:43:04.920 --> 00:43:08.280
believed, you know, and this
is it's just not set up for that

555
00:43:08.440 --> 00:43:12.800
to happen, right, But I
think that we all, if we really

556
00:43:13.199 --> 00:43:16.679
think about it, do have this
thing called the sixth sense. It's really

557
00:43:16.760 --> 00:43:22.559
a gut feeling you kind of know
when you're walking into trouble before it happens.

558
00:43:22.639 --> 00:43:27.400
I think anybody listening could could could
agree with that. I just go,

559
00:43:28.119 --> 00:43:30.480
you know, yeah, I have
to cut in here because we have

560
00:43:30.039 --> 00:43:35.039
we have like twenty minutes left and
no right, we have like something really

561
00:43:35.079 --> 00:43:38.519
important to talk about. Yes we
do, so I'm sorry, I just

562
00:43:38.559 --> 00:43:42.440
want to change that course a little
bit. You kind of have to with

563
00:43:42.559 --> 00:43:44.760
me. But that's okay. Well, no, that was all. That

564
00:43:44.880 --> 00:43:47.760
was all very fascinating. I'm not
really sure what I think about past lives,

565
00:43:47.800 --> 00:43:50.960
and I know, last time I
said that on the show, I

566
00:43:51.039 --> 00:43:54.599
got some email. I actually got
an email from a scientist that supports a

567
00:43:54.639 --> 00:43:59.480
show and saying, you know that
he actually believed in it, and I

568
00:43:59.519 --> 00:44:02.719
thought that, wow, amazing.
Wow. So but I'm not really sure.

569
00:44:02.840 --> 00:44:07.840
I'm on the fence about that.
But also the person I was talking

570
00:44:07.880 --> 00:44:12.400
about earlier that's going through hypnotherapy is
doing some work on that as well,

571
00:44:12.840 --> 00:44:15.280
so I'm going to be talking to
her about that. Yeah, good for

572
00:44:15.400 --> 00:44:17.360
her. I think it's cool that
she listens to the podcast. I think

573
00:44:17.400 --> 00:44:21.320
it's cool that you were born at
the same time in the same area.

574
00:44:21.760 --> 00:44:23.639
I mean, you know how many
of us can find somebody like that,

575
00:44:24.159 --> 00:44:29.239
especially with such similar interests. It's
almost like a twin connection of sorts.

576
00:44:29.559 --> 00:44:32.760
Yeah, there's a message up on
the message board. Then, I just

577
00:44:34.400 --> 00:44:37.880
they just want to clarify this before
we move on to the next subject.

578
00:44:37.960 --> 00:44:39.760
I'm sorry getting a little pushy here, but I don't want to run out

579
00:44:39.800 --> 00:44:44.639
of time. Do you think that
all mental illness is caused by evil spirits?

580
00:44:45.360 --> 00:44:49.440
Absolutely not, No, okay,
absolutely want to clarify that. No,

581
00:44:49.920 --> 00:44:52.800
I'm just saying that in primitive society, what the societies that we think

582
00:44:52.840 --> 00:44:57.440
of as primitive, you know,
they can actually cure a psychotic illness in

583
00:44:57.480 --> 00:45:00.199
a series of months, where here
it takes you know, decades. Uh.

584
00:45:00.400 --> 00:45:06.639
And and it's because they don't treat
the behavior of the person is wrong.

585
00:45:06.840 --> 00:45:09.840
They don't treat the person as broken. They think that there is something

586
00:45:09.960 --> 00:45:17.639
beside the person that causes that,
and the belief system helps that unconscious mind

587
00:45:17.880 --> 00:45:22.480
subconscious mind say you know what,
they're right, I'm wrong, and the

588
00:45:22.559 --> 00:45:28.960
behavior stops. I just think it's
kind of miraculous and it should be a

589
00:45:29.119 --> 00:45:30.960
lesson to the way we treat our
mentally. Ill. That's all I have

590
00:45:31.079 --> 00:45:36.000
to say about it, right,
Okay, so let's move on, and

591
00:45:36.679 --> 00:45:39.840
yeah, the baby this is a
pretty exciting topic because yeah, and I'll

592
00:45:39.960 --> 00:45:45.320
just paraphrase what we had said before, and that is which is going to

593
00:45:45.360 --> 00:45:51.239
get the proof first, UFOs or
ghosts? And and I don't know how

594
00:45:51.280 --> 00:45:52.280
you came up with that topic,
but I want to hear what you have

595
00:45:52.360 --> 00:45:57.599
to say about it. Well,
I've been doing articles for a magazine called

596
00:45:57.639 --> 00:46:01.719
Supernatural Magazine, and it's going to
be my next article. So I've been

597
00:46:01.800 --> 00:46:06.559
working on it. And look,
I'm primarily a ghost guy, but I

598
00:46:06.719 --> 00:46:10.079
pay a lot of attention to the
UFO community because as a responsible radio host,

599
00:46:10.519 --> 00:46:13.960
you know, you have to get
into these things. Yeah, there's

600
00:46:14.239 --> 00:46:16.400
an astronomy guy, and now I
know everything about astronomy. You know.

601
00:46:16.559 --> 00:46:21.719
Look, jack of all trades,
master of most of them, because I

602
00:46:22.400 --> 00:46:25.119
just have the time and effort to
do that sort of thing. And look,

603
00:46:25.679 --> 00:46:30.719
you go to paranormal conventions, you
go to UFO conventions, and it's

604
00:46:30.960 --> 00:46:32.960
always kind of on the table,
you know, which you think is going

605
00:46:34.039 --> 00:46:36.599
to get proven first, ghost of
UFOs and the ghost people will say,

606
00:46:36.639 --> 00:46:38.679
oh, ghosts, you know,
because we're in there trying to look for

607
00:46:38.840 --> 00:46:42.800
them, and we know what we're
doing and we'll figure it out, which

608
00:46:42.880 --> 00:46:47.000
I, even though I'm with them, don't believe and the ufologists and I

609
00:46:47.760 --> 00:46:52.440
actually believe that the answer is pretty
clear. I think it's easy, and

610
00:46:52.679 --> 00:46:57.639
I do think it's UFOs and look, but you have to think of the

611
00:46:57.760 --> 00:47:00.719
ramifications of each and I'll speak to
ghosts first. We do have a couple

612
00:47:00.760 --> 00:47:04.760
of minutes, you know, to
work on that. There are a lot

613
00:47:04.800 --> 00:47:07.920
of different things that ghost could be, and there's a lot of different ghostly

614
00:47:07.079 --> 00:47:10.400
type of things. And look,
I've worked with spirit mediums. I was

615
00:47:10.480 --> 00:47:15.440
actually at tuned as one for about
seven years. That's a story for another

616
00:47:15.480 --> 00:47:16.559
show. No, no, no, I just want to know what as

617
00:47:16.559 --> 00:47:22.199
a tune to one means. Oh, I spoke to dead people for a

618
00:47:22.280 --> 00:47:25.559
while. I asked them some very
detailed questions and look, you know,

619
00:47:25.679 --> 00:47:29.800
it is what it is. I
I lost a lot of friends, so

620
00:47:29.920 --> 00:47:31.920
I let it go. And it's
kind of ironic because you know, seven

621
00:47:32.000 --> 00:47:37.000
years later, No, I'm a
radio guy representing spirit mediums and ghost hunters,

622
00:47:37.039 --> 00:47:42.599
you know, so, and I
can't get it back. I just

623
00:47:42.679 --> 00:47:45.679
can't you know, And it's kind
of it's a sad thing, but I

624
00:47:45.760 --> 00:47:49.840
asked very detailed questions when I did
have that ability, and look, you

625
00:47:49.960 --> 00:47:52.559
know, you can believe it or
not, but you know, these are

626
00:47:52.599 --> 00:47:57.840
things that I experienced. And look, ghosts is a different kind of energy,

627
00:47:58.119 --> 00:48:00.880
and I think I don't don't like
the practice. I think they're doing

628
00:48:00.960 --> 00:48:07.679
a kind of wrong because for somebody
to be in a house and maybe at

629
00:48:07.679 --> 00:48:14.079
a different time or a secondary dimension
or a ghost and have trespassers come in

630
00:48:14.480 --> 00:48:16.320
on your property, you know that
you built with your blood, sweat and

631
00:48:16.360 --> 00:48:21.159
tears, and call you evil or
think that you're going to push them down

632
00:48:21.199 --> 00:48:23.360
a flight of stairs, Well what
would you do? I'd push them down

633
00:48:23.400 --> 00:48:27.239
the flight is there? You know, as people are coming into my house

634
00:48:27.320 --> 00:48:30.400
with all this equipment that I had
never seen before. They're like aliens.

635
00:48:30.559 --> 00:48:32.840
You know, I'd want to get
them out of there if I was from

636
00:48:32.880 --> 00:48:37.000
eighteen ninety or nineteen fifty. So
you think of them with respect. You

637
00:48:37.199 --> 00:48:40.760
talk to them in the language and
the culture of the time period where you

638
00:48:40.880 --> 00:48:45.159
think they originally. You do research
on the property, think who could be

639
00:48:45.239 --> 00:48:50.599
there, and try to communicate with
them. That's communicating with an interdimensional being.

640
00:48:50.679 --> 00:48:53.840
It's very similar to extraterrestrial I don't
really see that much difference between the

641
00:48:53.920 --> 00:49:00.599
two because if you can communicate successfully
and a respectful and nurturing manner, you

642
00:49:00.679 --> 00:49:05.840
know that's the dream. And look, I don't want to prove ghosts,

643
00:49:05.880 --> 00:49:09.039
but I will say this, in
order to prove the existence of ghosts,

644
00:49:09.440 --> 00:49:14.519
you kind of have to tell every
religious community that they're wrong, because it

645
00:49:14.639 --> 00:49:19.079
basically says that it doesn't matter what
you do, how you behave in life,

646
00:49:19.480 --> 00:49:22.079
you will still go on, and
you will be with like minded people

647
00:49:22.199 --> 00:49:29.199
wherever you go, and you will
be taught and you will have multiple lifetimes

648
00:49:29.440 --> 00:49:32.679
to learn all the lessons in life. Look the way we look at time,

649
00:49:34.320 --> 00:49:36.920
you know, the past is behind
us, the future is not yet

650
00:49:37.000 --> 00:49:42.280
here. So everything's moments, and
we're so time conscious that the moments are

651
00:49:42.440 --> 00:49:45.480
urgent. We have to know the
emotional things now. Well, you know,

652
00:49:45.559 --> 00:49:47.639
we have to have answers now.
So if we're trying to talk with

653
00:49:47.760 --> 00:49:52.880
people who might have died, then
we think of them in our living state

654
00:49:52.079 --> 00:49:55.519
with all this urgency, and if
they're dead, they don't their hearts aren't

655
00:49:55.559 --> 00:50:00.960
beating anymore. And things are really
relaxed with them, so the grudges don't

656
00:50:00.039 --> 00:50:05.679
count anymore. All they really want
is people they're connected with, and they

657
00:50:05.719 --> 00:50:07.840
want to watch over them. It's
kind of a guardian angel thing. They

658
00:50:07.880 --> 00:50:13.079
don't have supernatural abilities and they're not
automatically psychic, just because they're dead and

659
00:50:13.119 --> 00:50:15.480
they really haven't changed all that much
from when they were alive. So if

660
00:50:15.480 --> 00:50:19.960
they're a little grumpy when they're alive, they'll be a little grumpy when they're

661
00:50:20.039 --> 00:50:22.320
dead. You know. If they're
really nice when alive, will be really

662
00:50:22.400 --> 00:50:25.679
nice when they're dead. If they
were a serial killer went alive, then

663
00:50:27.079 --> 00:50:30.119
well they can't kill you, they
can't really harm you. But the whole

664
00:50:30.239 --> 00:50:34.960
thing is, in order to prove
the belief of ghosts, you have to

665
00:50:35.079 --> 00:50:38.400
pretty much wipe away all the faith
in the world, because all the faith

666
00:50:38.480 --> 00:50:42.920
in the world is say no,
our guy says, you know, he's

667
00:50:42.960 --> 00:50:46.519
the only one that you know died
and came back, and we can't do

668
00:50:46.639 --> 00:50:50.320
that, and we can't talk to
people who did that, and you know,

669
00:50:50.480 --> 00:50:52.519
that's just wrong, that's just evil
and it's not happening, and you

670
00:50:52.599 --> 00:50:57.920
know, we have to live on
our own lives and watch our sinful behaviors

671
00:50:58.199 --> 00:51:01.000
and our good behaviors and yah yeah. On the other hand was UFOs.

672
00:51:01.079 --> 00:51:07.320
Now, if you think of it, we've had a Canadian Minister of Defense

673
00:51:07.800 --> 00:51:14.400
who spoke in parliament saying that he
was personally aware that the major governments of

674
00:51:14.440 --> 00:51:19.159
the world since the mid nineteen forties
or so, really when we started working

675
00:51:19.199 --> 00:51:22.320
with or thinking about working on nuclear
armaments, you know, we had the

676
00:51:22.440 --> 00:51:27.800
Roswell thing, and basically since then, they've been in lead with our major

677
00:51:27.880 --> 00:51:34.079
governments. We're swapping technology and letting
them play with our people because we don't

678
00:51:34.159 --> 00:51:37.719
care about our people. We care
about technology. We want anti gravity first,

679
00:51:37.880 --> 00:51:43.559
you know, we want stealth first, these things. We want interstellar

680
00:51:44.320 --> 00:51:47.679
travel, you know, we want
that kind of technology. So they're kind

681
00:51:47.719 --> 00:51:52.599
of joining us along. This guy
says there's like twenty different species that he's

682
00:51:52.639 --> 00:51:57.000
personally, you know, familiar with. Then you got a guy recently about

683
00:51:57.039 --> 00:52:00.440
a month ago, two months ago, well maybe longer, on his deathbed,

684
00:52:00.559 --> 00:52:06.079
he confessed he worked in Area fifty
one. He was this aeronautical engineer

685
00:52:06.480 --> 00:52:10.199
at lockheedon Martin and other places,
and said it was more like twenty seven

686
00:52:10.239 --> 00:52:15.800
different species. Some he actually worked
with that were like two hundred and fifty

687
00:52:15.880 --> 00:52:19.960
years of age or older. And
some are going to be good to us.

688
00:52:20.360 --> 00:52:22.280
Some don't care about us. You
know, they are who they are,

689
00:52:22.840 --> 00:52:27.199
but we're in league with them.
And to have these kinds of things

690
00:52:27.320 --> 00:52:30.840
being told to us, and to
see these stories on the internet daily about

691
00:52:30.960 --> 00:52:35.159
you know, you look at the
Mars thing and look, we talked about

692
00:52:35.440 --> 00:52:37.960
the scientific aspects of that today,
but you see, oh, there's a

693
00:52:38.039 --> 00:52:43.400
statue there, and there's a coffin
there, and you know, here's evidence

694
00:52:43.440 --> 00:52:46.000
that there were a species there.
And you know, most of these are

695
00:52:46.079 --> 00:52:52.079
either photographic anomalies or somebody's imagination.
You know, we look at stuff,

696
00:52:52.119 --> 00:52:54.559
we make patterns on them. That's
what our brains do. But if you're

697
00:52:54.599 --> 00:53:00.280
going to prepare the people for disclosure, that's the way you do do it.

698
00:53:00.079 --> 00:53:05.199
So it may be in full swing
already, and by the time they

699
00:53:05.280 --> 00:53:07.719
come out with it, say ten
years, even from now, most of

700
00:53:07.840 --> 00:53:13.719
us will be used to the idea
because we're in this inner web, you

701
00:53:13.800 --> 00:53:16.760
know, and everybody knows everything.
Now you can't hide anything from anybody,

702
00:53:17.119 --> 00:53:21.719
which really kind of stinks. For
the news, I can't watch the news

703
00:53:21.719 --> 00:53:23.599
anymore. They have to go TMI
on us. You know, they have

704
00:53:23.679 --> 00:53:28.400
to show too much information because if
they don't, people will find it on

705
00:53:28.480 --> 00:53:31.039
the internet, and that's what they're
competing with. So it makes the news

706
00:53:31.119 --> 00:53:36.039
really hard to watch. Yeah,
Chip, just to interrupt you a little

707
00:53:36.039 --> 00:53:37.639
bit, sure, I'll probably have
to do that when I close out.

708
00:53:37.719 --> 00:53:40.760
Someone on the chatroom wants to know
what type of coffee you drink. But

709
00:53:43.320 --> 00:53:45.840
actually, red Bull okay, red
Bull okay, I might have to take

710
00:53:45.920 --> 00:53:51.079
that before my next show. But
you know, a couple of things you

711
00:53:51.199 --> 00:53:53.599
just said. I just wanted to
just talk about quickly. And that is,

712
00:53:53.800 --> 00:54:00.239
first of all, Paul Heller.
Actually he and I communicate. I

713
00:54:00.400 --> 00:54:06.599
lo I like that and uh,
and he has many times slated for the

714
00:54:06.719 --> 00:54:08.360
show and just has not made it, and hopefully he'll be on sooner or

715
00:54:08.440 --> 00:54:13.480
later. Uh. It's a little
bit controversial what what he has said.

716
00:54:13.559 --> 00:54:16.360
This is just in upology in general, a little bit controversial. The things

717
00:54:16.400 --> 00:54:20.400
that he said. I would let
him speak anyway and say his peace.

718
00:54:20.840 --> 00:54:24.360
And also about the deathbed confession,
there's a there's controversy about that too.

719
00:54:24.480 --> 00:54:30.599
There's uh, you know, as
as you know, as I know,

720
00:54:30.800 --> 00:54:37.000
nothing uh is is really one hundred
percent clear on these type of things,

721
00:54:37.159 --> 00:54:40.480
you know, I mean, uh, the interesting story, but there was

722
00:54:40.599 --> 00:54:45.719
some Uh, there's a there's been
a little backlash about both of those people,

723
00:54:45.760 --> 00:54:51.679
especially Paul Hellier and uh, which
you know, very prestigious. Uh,

724
00:54:52.079 --> 00:54:57.440
he had a very prestigious position with
the government, and he was very

725
00:54:57.559 --> 00:55:00.119
very well connected. He's a nice
gentleman. He's sharp. He's very sharp

726
00:55:00.159 --> 00:55:06.000
for ninety years old. I believe
that's what he is. But he has

727
00:55:06.280 --> 00:55:10.960
he has definitely, without a doubt, made some far reaches and some assumptions.

728
00:55:12.760 --> 00:55:15.119
Yeah, you know, he's an
interesting guy. And look, he's

729
00:55:15.159 --> 00:55:19.880
authoritative. But even for me in
my mid fifties, he's a little old

730
00:55:19.920 --> 00:55:23.039
school, you know, and I'm
looky, Yeah, you have to look.

731
00:55:23.119 --> 00:55:28.000
I'm I don't get along with you
know, all the twenty year old

732
00:55:28.079 --> 00:55:30.400
kids out there, but I have
to get along with son. I have

733
00:55:30.440 --> 00:55:32.119
a daughter that age. You know, I'm keeping my eye on her,

734
00:55:32.519 --> 00:55:36.920
so I have to learn her community. In order to do that. We've

735
00:55:36.960 --> 00:55:39.119
been the cool parents in the neighborhood, you know. But he also have

736
00:55:39.239 --> 00:55:44.159
to pay attention. And they're very
different than you know, people at my

737
00:55:44.280 --> 00:55:47.760
age group is, and so there's
some distance between what we will accept and

738
00:55:47.840 --> 00:55:52.360
not accept, and even me as
a bit liberal, you know, for

739
00:55:52.800 --> 00:55:59.119
that level, but you know,
somebody at Paul's age, and look,

740
00:55:59.239 --> 00:56:02.400
I'm not saying anything against him because
look, he's one of my heroes truly,

741
00:56:04.039 --> 00:56:07.119
but I have to say, in
this internet day and age, you

742
00:56:07.199 --> 00:56:08.559
know, everything you have to take
with grain of salt. And I have

743
00:56:08.719 --> 00:56:15.000
read some articles that are disparaging with
regard to the Canadian Prime minister or the

744
00:56:15.159 --> 00:56:22.639
ad Minister of Defense rather and the
guy's deathbed confession. But the news organizations

745
00:56:22.679 --> 00:56:25.079
that brought these stories out are the
things that I pay attention to. And

746
00:56:25.440 --> 00:56:30.199
look, some have a lot of
kind of wishy washy stuff where you know

747
00:56:30.280 --> 00:56:34.480
they're really trying to sell you know, blogs or magazines or whatever. And

748
00:56:34.679 --> 00:56:39.239
some have been authoritative figures and wouldn't
really publish this stuff unless they felt good

749
00:56:39.280 --> 00:56:45.079
about it. And you see the
kind of or news organizations that carry those

750
00:56:45.159 --> 00:56:50.360
stories, and that's why I tend
to believe them, especially when some of

751
00:56:50.440 --> 00:56:57.480
the documents I've seen with experiencers and
abductees or people that have been in classified

752
00:56:58.400 --> 00:57:01.199
government organizations that are coming out.
Now, you know, there's a lot

753
00:57:01.280 --> 00:57:07.400
of risk in doing that, so
it really depends. You know, we're

754
00:57:07.519 --> 00:57:12.159
just about out of time, Chippen. How can someone find you? Oh,

755
00:57:12.239 --> 00:57:15.599
it's kind of hard to do,
unfortunately. At the moment. I'm

756
00:57:15.679 --> 00:57:19.960
on Facebook at Chip Reichenthal and Chip, you know, like Potato Chip or

757
00:57:20.000 --> 00:57:23.599
computer Chip. It's Chip and Reichenthal
is like the third Reich, which I

758
00:57:23.679 --> 00:57:29.159
hate to say, R E I
C H and then E N T H

759
00:57:29.239 --> 00:57:32.440
A L. Actually, there's good
information about me on the podcast page,

760
00:57:32.840 --> 00:57:37.199
so they can they can find me
or at least my book through the podcast

761
00:57:37.320 --> 00:57:42.719
page. I'm on LinkedIn at Chip
Reich and Thal Facebook, I'm on Twitter.

762
00:57:44.079 --> 00:57:46.400
Well you can't. Victims of Retail. Actually, i'm my old band

763
00:57:46.480 --> 00:57:50.960
name. I'm changing all of that
in a couple of months. I'm starting

764
00:57:50.960 --> 00:57:53.920
a website and it'll be easier to
find me. But meantime that's probably the

765
00:57:54.000 --> 00:57:59.440
best way. And you can email
me if you want. Victims of Retail

766
00:57:59.639 --> 00:58:04.960
at the dot com that's my band
name. Victims is plural victims of retail.

767
00:58:05.119 --> 00:58:07.840
We all are, you know,
it's kind of my collective harmony type

768
00:58:07.880 --> 00:58:12.440
of thing. I guess we are. Yeah, So this has been a

769
00:58:12.599 --> 00:58:14.960
This has been a lot of fun
and I had just one more thing.

770
00:58:15.360 --> 00:58:19.320
Are you planning to write another book
at any point? Oh, A couple

771
00:58:19.360 --> 00:58:23.519
of books and a couple of the
next one is actually a sequel to my

772
00:58:23.679 --> 00:58:29.280
current book, but I'm adding some
UFOs to it. Very interesting. The

773
00:58:29.360 --> 00:58:34.119
first book was really about spirit medium
and handling a murder mystery, and the

774
00:58:34.280 --> 00:58:40.320
sequel has him having to chase a
ghost who convinced this guy who was alleged

775
00:58:40.360 --> 00:58:46.840
to be mentally let's say, deranged. It was his brother who suicided,

776
00:58:47.079 --> 00:58:51.639
and the spirit of his brother told
him to kill a police officer who is

777
00:58:51.719 --> 00:58:55.119
the partner of the homicide investigator who
is the main character in my first book.

778
00:58:55.320 --> 00:58:59.360
Okay, you lost me at UFO. I know. By the way,

779
00:58:59.719 --> 00:59:02.920
can you make that UFO in the
book donut shape one like Maury Island?

780
00:59:04.159 --> 00:59:06.800
For anything? For anything for you, brother, Yeah, it would

781
00:59:06.840 --> 00:59:09.159
be an honor. And I'll also
name you, you know in the acknowledgment

782
00:59:10.320 --> 00:59:15.800
it says on the side of the
ship Marty, Marty, I like that.

783
00:59:15.159 --> 00:59:19.000
Yeah, Hey, well, hey
Chip, thanks so much, and

784
00:59:19.440 --> 00:59:22.000
we'll have you back. You're you're
a good guy, a friend and uh

785
00:59:22.400 --> 00:59:27.559
and I'd love to have you back
on sometime. It's always a pleasure and

786
00:59:27.599 --> 00:59:30.760
an honor brother. I love talking
with you. Thank you so much.

787
00:59:30.920 --> 00:59:36.280
We are going to be right back. This is just a little bit tricky

788
00:59:36.400 --> 00:59:39.039
for us here because we usually don't
switch guests in the middle, but I'm

789
00:59:39.079 --> 00:59:43.039
going to try this. Hopefully it'll
all work out. Hang in there,

790
00:59:43.079 --> 01:01:35.760
please ya do a Rob Mercer,
how are you? Oh, not doing

791
01:01:35.800 --> 01:01:40.199
too bad? Thank you for for
joining us in our two and uh,

792
01:01:40.760 --> 01:01:45.280
this is your first time you've ever
been on a show, am I right?

793
01:01:45.000 --> 01:01:49.280
Yes, that's it. And let's
uh, let's first of all,

794
01:01:49.320 --> 01:01:52.239
before we get into why you're here? Uh, why don't you tell the

795
01:01:52.360 --> 01:01:55.880
listening audience? And I'm actually seeing
you on video here well, and you

796
01:01:55.960 --> 01:01:59.440
can actually shut that off if you
want to do. All you have to

797
01:01:59.519 --> 01:02:01.800
do is over over with your mouse
and you'll see a little camera and just

798
01:02:01.880 --> 01:02:06.559
click it off and that way we'll
have a much clearer signal. That's better

799
01:02:07.159 --> 01:02:10.440
because I saw the picture of UFOs
in your background there. Okay, So

800
01:02:10.599 --> 01:02:14.440
why don't you, yeah, why
don't you tell the listening audience who you

801
01:02:14.519 --> 01:02:17.960
are? Okay, my name's Rob
Mercer. I'm a move on field investigator

802
01:02:19.039 --> 01:02:22.800
and stay section director here in the
Southwestern part of Ohio. I've done it

803
01:02:22.840 --> 01:02:30.440
for a few years. That's pretty
much the extent of it. I also,

804
01:02:30.960 --> 01:02:32.519
I've been following UFOs my whole life, reading about him, you know,

805
01:02:32.559 --> 01:02:36.159
everything I could find on them,
and what's kind of led me to

806
01:02:36.480 --> 01:02:39.960
what I have to share on here. Now? What did you started in

807
01:02:40.039 --> 01:02:44.760
a fascination with UFOs to begin with? I had an uncle when I was

808
01:02:44.840 --> 01:02:47.719
younger that was really into it,
and he got me going on it.

809
01:02:49.559 --> 01:02:52.000
We just just all we used to
do talk about and every time he came

810
01:02:52.079 --> 01:02:55.639
over. Now, how did mom
and dad feel about that? Oh?

811
01:02:55.760 --> 01:02:59.719
No, they didn't seem care.
They had their own siding when I was

812
01:02:59.760 --> 01:03:02.840
young. They I personally myself and
I've never had one that I couldn't figure

813
01:03:02.880 --> 01:03:07.519
out yet. But they did when
we were in bed one night. It's

814
01:03:07.559 --> 01:03:12.800
back probably when back in the early
eighties. But now they I mean I

815
01:03:12.880 --> 01:03:15.639
didn't. I kind of kept it
to myself, and you know I did

816
01:03:15.639 --> 01:03:16.960
it in my own time. I
had a big family. I always like

817
01:03:17.000 --> 01:03:21.039
to hear about sightings. Do you
mind? Do you have any details of

818
01:03:21.159 --> 01:03:24.599
what your parents saw? We lived
in an old farmhouse up in Champagne County,

819
01:03:24.639 --> 01:03:29.000
Ohio, and they were in the
middle of the night they saw a

820
01:03:29.079 --> 01:03:31.880
light out in the backyard, and
I just remember brief parts of it,

821
01:03:32.000 --> 01:03:37.400
but they saw the light hovering over
the house. And I don't have an

822
01:03:37.440 --> 01:03:42.559
exact time as far as year to
do any investigating myself. I would like

823
01:03:42.679 --> 01:03:45.119
to, but it's something I need
to work on as try to my mom

824
01:03:45.199 --> 01:03:47.840
was no longer around, but work
with my dad to try to find out

825
01:03:47.840 --> 01:03:52.519
a little better details on that.
Mm hmm. Yeah. You know a

826
01:03:52.599 --> 01:03:55.280
lot of times i'se still. You
know, you've heard you hear people say

827
01:03:55.360 --> 01:04:00.280
something like, oh, you know
they'll remember something wrong. Well, I'm

828
01:04:00.280 --> 01:04:03.679
telling you, when it's such a
traumatic situation, you pretty much, I

829
01:04:03.920 --> 01:04:09.360
believe you pretty much remember quite a
bit about the details. Well, they

830
01:04:09.440 --> 01:04:12.039
weren't shook up about it. I
remember him telling us about it the next

831
01:04:12.119 --> 01:04:15.920
day. I was just so young
that I didn't write down the details.

832
01:04:15.400 --> 01:04:19.719
But they were sure that it wasn't
of this earth. Uh huh. Wow,

833
01:04:20.599 --> 01:04:25.920
that is a statement and a half. Now. So your uncle had

834
01:04:26.000 --> 01:04:29.199
he had a sighting as well.
He I remember he did. He was

835
01:04:29.679 --> 01:04:32.159
driving home from work and he had
seen some lights and thought they were following

836
01:04:32.239 --> 01:04:35.760
him, and he was I was
me and him were real good friends.

837
01:04:35.800 --> 01:04:39.280
And I say he was came out
to my house and was telling me about

838
01:04:39.280 --> 01:04:42.400
it, and I remember we went
out looking for it. And from then

839
01:04:42.440 --> 01:04:45.480
on he always had a telescope,
and you know, we was just always

840
01:04:45.519 --> 01:04:48.480
kind of into the sci fi thing
here as far as looking looking for things,

841
01:04:49.079 --> 01:04:53.880
going to different events things like that. Uh huh. So now,

842
01:04:54.599 --> 01:05:00.320
just for the listening audience, you
can go on our website podcast to if

843
01:05:00.360 --> 01:05:03.599
you scroll down into the show notes
or on the homepage the week that this

844
01:05:03.800 --> 01:05:10.679
show is running, you will see
a link to Rob's website where he has

845
01:05:10.719 --> 01:05:15.679
a number of these documents posted that
we're going to be talking about, and

846
01:05:15.000 --> 01:05:20.559
they are actually Project blue Book files. And first of all, Rob,

847
01:05:20.679 --> 01:05:26.719
let's talk about this is a Craigslist
fine to begin with the very start of

848
01:05:26.760 --> 01:05:30.079
it, can you tell us what
happened? Oh yeah, I live like

849
01:05:30.199 --> 01:05:33.800
say, right with about twenty minutes
from right Pat, and I've done service

850
01:05:33.840 --> 01:05:39.079
work in the area over around there
for years. So I was just one

851
01:05:39.199 --> 01:05:43.760
night. Well, I check all
the time on Craigslist for UFO collections because

852
01:05:44.280 --> 01:05:45.639
being in a lot of people's houses
over the years, I've seen them.

853
01:05:45.679 --> 01:05:48.559
I know they have them. People
tend to throw things out. You're rid

854
01:05:48.559 --> 01:05:53.440
of things when somebody passes away.
You know, I just to interrupt you

855
01:05:54.360 --> 01:05:58.880
first quick second here, I'm more
or less like in the antique you know,

856
01:05:58.960 --> 01:06:01.920
fine arts business. I checked for
antiques and fine art on Craigslist and

857
01:06:01.960 --> 01:06:05.960
all that. I'm really into UFOs
and I've never even once thought of doing

858
01:06:06.079 --> 01:06:10.719
that. You may be one of
the very few people that actually do that.

859
01:06:11.320 --> 01:06:14.239
That's a good idea. Well that's
what I thought. I mean,

860
01:06:14.280 --> 01:06:16.079
I never thought i'd find anything like
this. You know, I'm just looking

861
01:06:16.159 --> 01:06:20.280
for people's other investigators. You know, you only investigate a few years,

862
01:06:20.320 --> 01:06:24.800
you tend to get burnt out on
it. Things like that, other people's

863
01:06:24.840 --> 01:06:27.519
files. But yeah, I was
very surprised that I came across this.

864
01:06:28.000 --> 01:06:33.199
And on my website there, I've
got an actual screenshot of the ad that

865
01:06:33.360 --> 01:06:35.840
was on there that particular night.
Yep, it's down a little bit,

866
01:06:36.360 --> 01:06:39.679
you can see it. I guess
i'd better tell you about that. I

867
01:06:39.719 --> 01:06:43.880
created that website just the area.
I'm a moof on field investigator and I'm

868
01:06:43.880 --> 01:06:48.760
always part of our investigation process is
you check the internet for correlating cases that

869
01:06:48.840 --> 01:06:53.800
may have happened around the time of
the one you're investigating. And I started

870
01:06:53.840 --> 01:06:58.519
noticing that I live in Springfield.
I mean, I was never getting cases

871
01:06:58.559 --> 01:07:00.960
from this area yet I'd get on
some where like the National UFO Reporting Center,

872
01:07:01.000 --> 01:07:04.280
and they just have cases left and
right, you know, from around

873
01:07:04.360 --> 01:07:09.079
here. So I fegure I would
create a local website for people in the

874
01:07:09.199 --> 01:07:12.800
area that would go to maybe to
get them to kind of report more for

875
01:07:13.000 --> 01:07:15.960
us, you know, tell share
their stories a little bit more. And

876
01:07:15.039 --> 01:07:18.800
that's kind of the purpose of that
website. It's that's why it's called We're

877
01:07:19.079 --> 01:07:24.599
technically called the Miami Valley and that's
what that's for. Just for some reason,

878
01:07:24.639 --> 01:07:27.159
I was thinking they had something to
do with Miami, Florida, and

879
01:07:27.280 --> 01:07:30.199
I saw that, and I wonder
what the connection was. It would be

880
01:07:30.280 --> 01:07:32.519
surprised how many people from Florida are
actually visit that website. To it,

881
01:07:32.840 --> 01:07:36.440
I may have to make some changes
to it, but it just I just,

882
01:07:36.559 --> 01:07:39.599
you know, try to link to
news. I'm trying to get people

883
01:07:39.679 --> 01:07:43.599
to report, to report them so
they'll be investigated when they see things.

884
01:07:43.840 --> 01:07:46.199
There's I mean a lot I've been
doing a lot of blue Book research and

885
01:07:46.239 --> 01:07:49.519
there's been a lot of cases from
around this area, so I'm just trying

886
01:07:49.559 --> 01:07:54.079
to make sure I get some of
them. But that night, it was

887
01:07:54.119 --> 01:07:57.800
in September of twenty thirteen, we'd
had to move on meeting over over in

888
01:07:57.880 --> 01:08:00.400
Columbus, and I was home at
night and it was kind of had it

889
01:08:00.480 --> 01:08:02.440
on my mind, and I was
on Craigslist and all I did was under

890
01:08:02.480 --> 01:08:05.920
for sale type in UFO, which
I had done one hundred times before,

891
01:08:06.880 --> 01:08:10.320
and i'd seen that ad. I
don't know if he'body seeing it on there,

892
01:08:10.400 --> 01:08:14.480
but it's an ad that said the
guy had files that had come from

893
01:08:14.639 --> 01:08:18.199
it said from a captain in Project
blue Book. So I texted him.

894
01:08:18.239 --> 01:08:20.720
It was, you know, about
midnight that night when I texted him and

895
01:08:20.720 --> 01:08:23.640
told him to hang on to him. So I got off of work the

896
01:08:23.720 --> 01:08:27.560
next day and I drove down and
looked for it or down to see him.

897
01:08:27.560 --> 01:08:30.960
They were a little south of Dayton, and sure enough, it's what

898
01:08:30.119 --> 01:08:33.159
he said it was. It was
a couple of black binders full of photos

899
01:08:33.880 --> 01:08:39.680
and what I call case they're called
case summaries, just like the card with

900
01:08:39.800 --> 01:08:44.800
the basic description of the sighting on
him and what the finding was. There

901
01:08:44.920 --> 01:08:50.800
was a several boxes of slides there
was three binders that have basically they go

902
01:08:50.840 --> 01:08:56.880
from nineteen forty seven to nineteen sixty
nine and list every case that there is.

903
01:08:57.159 --> 01:08:59.960
You know that there was for blue
Book. Now you'll find these online,

904
01:09:00.960 --> 01:09:04.000
but everything's redacted as far as the
witnesses names. Oh yeah, he's

905
01:09:04.119 --> 01:09:08.960
nothing of this is it's all untouched. Wow. And there was you know,

906
01:09:09.079 --> 01:09:12.680
some other documents and there a lot
of files in there. So the

907
01:09:12.760 --> 01:09:15.399
guy, I gave him what he
wanted for it. Let's I got to

908
01:09:15.399 --> 01:09:16.760
hear what it is. How much
did you have to pay? I paid

909
01:09:16.760 --> 01:09:19.960
one hundred dollars for that first box, but to me, that was worth

910
01:09:20.000 --> 01:09:25.439
it. Just oh no, laughing
history guy too. I'm laughing because there's

911
01:09:25.479 --> 01:09:28.399
probably a lot of people listening to
the show right now that would pay ten

912
01:09:28.479 --> 01:09:32.399
times at and uh, you know
I probably would be pretty close to that

913
01:09:33.039 --> 01:09:36.720
there as well. So and by
the way, I just want to say

914
01:09:36.880 --> 01:09:41.840
on the area, because I know
he's listening, is Chris Lambright. He's

915
01:09:41.880 --> 01:09:45.239
the one who connected you and I
together, who you have spoke with and

916
01:09:45.680 --> 01:09:50.439
uh, you also has spoke with
someone He's going to be on the show,

917
01:09:50.479 --> 01:09:55.560
and I don't know, maybe two
or three weeks Ray Stanford, Uh,

918
01:09:56.279 --> 01:09:58.760
and we got he took me up
with talking to him. How I

919
01:09:58.760 --> 01:10:02.399
got hooked up with Chris. Yeah, Ray. I not knew much about

920
01:10:02.479 --> 01:10:06.199
Ray before that point, but I
had found some files in there, some

921
01:10:06.960 --> 01:10:12.199
paperwork in there that were of interest
to him with his story. Yeah,

922
01:10:13.520 --> 01:10:17.199
and I've got I'll tell you guys
about those. But with those files that

923
01:10:17.319 --> 01:10:19.840
I had, I sat on them
for about I had a couple of people

924
01:10:19.880 --> 01:10:24.880
from mouf On over that weekend after
I was excited to show them to people

925
01:10:24.920 --> 01:10:27.680
that have been in the business a
lot longer than me, just kind of

926
01:10:27.680 --> 01:10:30.319
get their take on it. So
I had three guys over from our move

927
01:10:30.399 --> 01:10:33.600
on in Ohio and we spent about
eight hours of my basement going through them,

928
01:10:34.159 --> 01:10:38.880
and we were convinced when it was
over that the guy gave I mean,

929
01:10:38.920 --> 01:10:43.199
we knew the lieutenant that they belonged
to gave briefings on the subject just

930
01:10:43.319 --> 01:10:46.439
by documents that were in there.
There were a lot of slides explaining statistics

931
01:10:46.560 --> 01:10:51.119
and different policies. So I just
kind of sat on them for about nine

932
01:10:51.159 --> 01:10:56.000
months after that, researching him,
trying to find out who he was,

933
01:10:56.159 --> 01:11:00.359
if he was alive, not really
knowing what to do with not get him

934
01:11:00.359 --> 01:11:04.119
in trouble or anything or have him
wanting them back from me. You know,

935
01:11:04.119 --> 01:11:08.760
I'd even drive by his house where
I put the story together where they

936
01:11:08.800 --> 01:11:13.600
came from the garage that they were
found in, and the whole timeline to

937
01:11:13.680 --> 01:11:15.520
that, and knew about where he
was living, and you know, I

938
01:11:15.680 --> 01:11:19.159
drive by hoping to catch him outside
just to kind of confirm it without calling

939
01:11:19.239 --> 01:11:24.520
him and creeping him out. But
after a while, I, you know,

940
01:11:24.600 --> 01:11:26.640
finally he was you know, knowing
he was former Air Force. I

941
01:11:26.680 --> 01:11:29.399
have a friend here in Moufon it
was former Air Force, and came to

942
01:11:29.399 --> 01:11:31.239
a conclusion that I might have him
give him a call for me and break

943
01:11:31.279 --> 01:11:35.399
the ice, and he wanted to. So he gave him a call at

944
01:11:35.439 --> 01:11:39.479
his house here in Farborne, and
turned out him and his wife had divorced

945
01:11:39.479 --> 01:11:42.439
several years ago when he'd moved out
of state. Well, his wife was

946
01:11:42.520 --> 01:11:45.079
nice, nice enough to give us
his phone number where he lived now.

947
01:11:45.319 --> 01:11:50.279
So my friend Pete Pete Harninger from
Moufon, he had called him and talked

948
01:11:50.279 --> 01:11:53.159
to him a few minutes and called
me back and said, you know,

949
01:11:53.399 --> 01:11:56.680
Lieutenant said to give him a call. He wants to hear about the stuff

950
01:11:56.680 --> 01:12:00.359
he founded of his So I gave
him a call, and he was a

951
01:12:00.399 --> 01:12:02.920
little confused even a few minutes later
when I called him, But once I

952
01:12:03.239 --> 01:12:06.359
you know, explained what happened,
he basically told me, Yeah, they'd

953
01:12:06.359 --> 01:12:10.680
gotten a divorce and he'd forgot he
left those behind, forgot they were up

954
01:12:10.680 --> 01:12:14.399
in the garage. It was a
two story garage with an addicin at the

955
01:12:14.479 --> 01:12:16.880
kind of place that you'd store stuff
for years and years and kind of forget

956
01:12:16.920 --> 01:12:20.319
that you had. Now, how
old was he when he was with a

957
01:12:20.640 --> 01:12:26.520
Project blue Book Because mid to late
twenties. Oh okay, and so that

958
01:12:26.600 --> 01:12:30.680
was nineteen sixty nine, so when
it shut down, I'd say he was

959
01:12:30.720 --> 01:12:33.800
probably about twenty seven when it shut
down. Twenty eight okay, so he

960
01:12:34.079 --> 01:12:39.520
is he seventy something? Yes?
Yeah, the seventies? Now? Yeah?

961
01:12:40.359 --> 01:12:43.319
Is he? The number one thing
I think of when I'm hearing all

962
01:12:43.359 --> 01:12:47.279
this. I just can't help myself
with would he be the type of person

963
01:12:47.399 --> 01:12:53.479
that would actually want to talk about
this? Well, he didn't like to

964
01:12:53.560 --> 01:12:55.920
talk about the program. I mean, he likes to tell me, you

965
01:12:55.960 --> 01:12:59.159
know, stuff that went on,
gives me the basics, but he doesn't

966
01:12:59.199 --> 01:13:03.439
have a good memory of a specifics
on there. I mean basically, when

967
01:13:03.479 --> 01:13:09.079
it shut down and he left,
he that he quit even messing with UFOs.

968
01:13:09.760 --> 01:13:12.439
He went in a fan, a
sci fi fan, and he told

969
01:13:12.479 --> 01:13:15.000
me he was going to prove they
were real. But he was there for

970
01:13:15.119 --> 01:13:16.640
a little over two years, and
by the time it shut down, he

971
01:13:17.439 --> 01:13:20.600
he was convinced otherwise, he told
me, and he kind of put them

972
01:13:20.600 --> 01:13:24.600
all way. And I've asked him
questions about well, I mean, I

973
01:13:24.680 --> 01:13:28.039
asked him the most common question you
ask somebody is you know, what's what's

974
01:13:28.039 --> 01:13:31.279
your opinion on Roswell? And it's
honest to god, he said he'd never

975
01:13:31.319 --> 01:13:36.159
heard of Roswell my goodness, which
is I mean, it did go a

976
01:13:36.199 --> 01:13:39.760
way till about you know, till
in the seventies one, that's right,

977
01:13:40.439 --> 01:13:44.239
came back to nine or something like
that. Yeah, And I didn't sense

978
01:13:44.279 --> 01:13:47.760
that he was lying, So I
kind of tend to believe him there as

979
01:13:47.800 --> 01:13:50.640
far as that goes. So,
and I've asked him, you know,

980
01:13:50.680 --> 01:13:54.640
what do you think about you know, astronauts and a lot of credible people

981
01:13:55.399 --> 01:13:58.000
with reports, you know, I
mean, that's hard to get around.

982
01:13:58.119 --> 01:14:00.000
You know, you have no reason
not to believe him, and he said

983
01:14:00.039 --> 01:14:03.319
he didn't know anything about him,
but he said everybody has an ulterior motive.

984
01:14:03.920 --> 01:14:08.760
Huh, So, I mean he
just I could not. I've I've

985
01:14:08.800 --> 01:14:12.720
sent him a few books, you
know, for my collection, just to

986
01:14:12.800 --> 01:14:15.119
try to get him to read him
and get back into it a little bit

987
01:14:15.159 --> 01:14:17.159
and you not call him from time
to time, but he's, uh,

988
01:14:18.279 --> 01:14:21.199
I don't. I'm not getting any
feedback from him for that. But he'll

989
01:14:21.239 --> 01:14:24.640
talk about some of the cases,
you know, from when he was there.

990
01:14:25.039 --> 01:14:27.680
I can't really go back before he
was there because he doesn't know a

991
01:14:27.720 --> 01:14:30.960
whole lot about him. Yeah,
uh, just what he had. He

992
01:14:30.079 --> 01:14:33.960
still would be He probably does not
want to talk about it at all,

993
01:14:34.520 --> 01:14:39.840
like especially like on the show or
something like that. But he probably talked

994
01:14:39.840 --> 01:14:42.079
to one person, you know,
a person if you called him. Yeah,

995
01:14:43.399 --> 01:14:45.960
but I don't know that he would
want to come on a show.

996
01:14:45.319 --> 01:14:48.399
He still would if he did,
He still would be very interesting no matter

997
01:14:48.439 --> 01:14:51.560
what his opinion. Oh yeah,
oh yeah. He's got a physicist background

998
01:14:51.640 --> 01:14:58.159
and very smart guy. Very smart
guy. But we uh, you know,

999
01:14:58.239 --> 01:15:00.960
we talk a lot about politics and
a little bit of everything. We

1000
01:15:00.039 --> 01:15:04.119
don't specifically talk about UFOs all the
time. But after talking to him that

1001
01:15:04.199 --> 01:15:06.399
first time for an hour or so
and you know, telling him what I

1002
01:15:06.479 --> 01:15:11.800
had, and he saw how interested
I was and everything, he told me

1003
01:15:11.880 --> 01:15:14.359
that, you know, I've got
a few more boxes of that stuff that

1004
01:15:14.840 --> 01:15:16.560
you know at my house where I
stay in the summer. He said,

1005
01:15:16.800 --> 01:15:18.760
call me back in a month or
so and i'll mel it to you.

1006
01:15:20.039 --> 01:15:23.439
I said, okay. So you
know, he gave me his number and

1007
01:15:23.479 --> 01:15:27.960
I called him back a few months
later and reminded him. He remembered,

1008
01:15:28.000 --> 01:15:30.079
and you know, he said,
well, I got to sort through it.

1009
01:15:30.119 --> 01:15:31.960
It's got a lot of trash and
junk and stuff in And I said,

1010
01:15:31.960 --> 01:15:36.039
I'll take anything that you know was
Air Force and Blue Book related and

1011
01:15:36.079 --> 01:15:40.319
you know, pencils even doesn't matter. He said, okay, he said,

1012
01:15:40.319 --> 01:15:43.159
well I got you know is He
was eventually promoted to captain at a

1013
01:15:44.000 --> 01:15:47.119
Nowke base out west he in a
missile launch site. He said, well,

1014
01:15:47.119 --> 01:15:49.159
I got my you know, buttons
and everything. He said, I

1015
01:15:49.159 --> 01:15:51.920
don't really have anybody give them to
and he sent all that to me in

1016
01:15:53.039 --> 01:15:56.840
the in the boxes. It's basically
I got three more boxes from him.

1017
01:15:56.880 --> 01:16:03.239
The files. They were good boxes
full of books and I mean, there's

1018
01:16:03.319 --> 01:16:06.720
not every file. It's a good
collection of files. A lot of them

1019
01:16:06.720 --> 01:16:11.880
are just single page. There's a
lot of complete files in there. Now,

1020
01:16:12.000 --> 01:16:13.760
let me ask. It took me
a while. I'll go ahead,

1021
01:16:13.760 --> 01:16:18.520
go ahead, Yeah, how how
would someone in his position actually take these

1022
01:16:18.680 --> 01:16:23.039
out of the office, you know, I just I just can't see how

1023
01:16:23.119 --> 01:16:28.039
that would be possible unless they when
they closed Project Blue Book in nineteen sixty

1024
01:16:28.119 --> 01:16:30.079
nine, they've just said, hey, you know, take whatever you want

1025
01:16:30.159 --> 01:16:34.439
to what's in your desk, we
have the main files or something like that.

1026
01:16:34.600 --> 01:16:38.960
How could someone actually take those what
he had? Well, he said

1027
01:16:39.000 --> 01:16:42.439
they spent a couple of weeks declassifying
everything, you know, all the Navy

1028
01:16:42.520 --> 01:16:45.920
files they had to pitch out because
you can't. They're all they could.

1029
01:16:45.920 --> 01:16:49.039
You couldn't declassify those, he said, because of you can't give away locations.

1030
01:16:50.159 --> 01:16:55.600
But everything else they declassified that they
could. And the only thing I

1031
01:16:55.760 --> 01:17:00.359
can figure is some of these,
I mean, everything I have file wise,

1032
01:17:00.199 --> 01:17:05.159
you can find the case file online. It may not I may have

1033
01:17:05.560 --> 01:17:10.079
you know, better look, quality
of pictures, things like that, but

1034
01:17:10.119 --> 01:17:13.960
they're all on the case files themselves
are all online. So I don't think

1035
01:17:14.159 --> 01:17:16.760
there's nothing in there that he didn't, you know, bring home. But

1036
01:17:18.359 --> 01:17:20.319
for a while I was trying to
figure it out. You know, it

1037
01:17:20.399 --> 01:17:24.840
was this stuff out of his desk, And the last time I was talking

1038
01:17:24.880 --> 01:17:27.000
to him he was talking about a
little bit more. I assumed it was

1039
01:17:27.039 --> 01:17:30.239
because of the briefings. I've got
documents where he's had gave. He gave

1040
01:17:30.359 --> 01:17:33.560
briefings on UFOs to the Air Force, three or four of them. I'm

1041
01:17:33.560 --> 01:17:35.840
sure he did more than that.
I just those are just what I have,

1042
01:17:36.000 --> 01:17:39.439
But a lot of it seems to
be his personal stuff out of his

1043
01:17:39.560 --> 01:17:43.319
desk. But also he revealed to
me the last time I was talking to

1044
01:17:43.399 --> 01:17:46.039
him, is he put a press
kit together when he got there. You

1045
01:17:46.119 --> 01:17:49.319
know, the press was always going
at it with the blue book staff wanting

1046
01:17:49.359 --> 01:17:54.640
to see things. So he charged
himself with putting it. And I've even

1047
01:17:54.680 --> 01:17:58.600
got his basically a resume he put
up of his duties that's in here.

1048
01:17:59.319 --> 01:18:01.800
He charges off with straightening up the
files a little bit and making it easier

1049
01:18:01.880 --> 01:18:08.119
for the press to come in and
look at things. So when he was

1050
01:18:08.199 --> 01:18:13.119
doing that kind of quintinella, which
I call on quintinella only because that's what

1051
01:18:13.239 --> 01:18:16.279
the lieutenant calls him, I'm probably
not pronouncing it right, but it's easier

1052
01:18:16.720 --> 01:18:21.239
to stay that way. Quinnella came
in and jumping for doing that, basically

1053
01:18:21.359 --> 01:18:25.359
said, you know, the press
is always on us, you know,

1054
01:18:25.560 --> 01:18:28.439
don't do anything to help them.
Well, he did it anyway, made

1055
01:18:28.520 --> 01:18:30.520
him nice and organized for them to
look at, and of course then they

1056
01:18:30.600 --> 01:18:33.439
loved it. Well then he told
me that Quininella tried to take the credit

1057
01:18:33.520 --> 01:18:40.000
for it being his idea after that. But a lot of these are I

1058
01:18:40.079 --> 01:18:44.359
think a lot of these are photos
that they had to show the press case

1059
01:18:44.439 --> 01:18:48.199
files, but some of them,
some of the numbers on some of these

1060
01:18:48.239 --> 01:18:54.920
files are from the you know,
the early fifties three digit case number files,

1061
01:18:55.399 --> 01:18:58.119
I mean, and the files are
so old they almost look original.

1062
01:18:58.199 --> 01:19:01.079
So it's really hard for me to
say for sure. That's what I'm kind

1063
01:19:01.119 --> 01:19:04.640
of my ongoing research trying to figure
out the time period that these were actually

1064
01:19:04.720 --> 01:19:09.000
copied and made. I don't know
if some of these are originals and copies

1065
01:19:09.039 --> 01:19:12.920
were made and putting the file more
organized, but I've got, you know,

1066
01:19:13.720 --> 01:19:16.159
a lot of the early fifties cases
on here too that are actually complete.

1067
01:19:16.159 --> 01:19:19.520
They're actually in brown folders. They
weren't loose like a lot of the

1068
01:19:19.600 --> 01:19:24.319
other files in there. But yet
if you go online you'll see the brown

1069
01:19:24.359 --> 01:19:30.600
folders scanned in on you know,
the fold three website or the government website.

1070
01:19:30.800 --> 01:19:34.279
So there's a lot of I'm still
trying to figure out the complete system

1071
01:19:34.479 --> 01:19:39.680
as far as that goes, but
there has been a lot of I've found

1072
01:19:39.760 --> 01:19:44.359
things in here that I can't find
online, as far as documents, regulations,

1073
01:19:44.680 --> 01:19:47.760
office memos, lots of things like
that that came through the system.

1074
01:19:48.039 --> 01:19:54.079
Yeah, let's look anything stand out
that you'd like to talk about. Well,

1075
01:19:54.119 --> 01:19:59.720
I'll start with with this Coro case
and Ray. I we had a

1076
01:19:59.760 --> 01:20:04.640
couple guys from Muffan, Virginia.
They're helping James Fox to look up some

1077
01:20:05.199 --> 01:20:10.600
do some researching on Scorro, and
I contacted them telling them about the file.

1078
01:20:10.680 --> 01:20:14.760
I had not really knowing what they
were looking for, just kind of

1079
01:20:15.039 --> 01:20:18.319
basically telling them about it. And
they told me about Ray, which prompted

1080
01:20:18.359 --> 01:20:23.000
me to look into Ray. So
I was reading about him on the internet

1081
01:20:23.079 --> 01:20:26.279
and I saw his symbol that he
had, you know, for years,

1082
01:20:26.319 --> 01:20:29.760
had been saying the inverted V with
the three lines through it. As I

1083
01:20:29.840 --> 01:20:30.239
was looking at that, and I
was thinking, oh, I know I

1084
01:20:30.279 --> 01:20:34.159
have seen that in one of these
books. So as I got my scorro

1085
01:20:34.279 --> 01:20:38.800
file. It's the most complete file
I have. It's a it's all x

1086
01:20:39.000 --> 01:20:43.560
rocks, but it's one hundred basically
one hundred and seventy some pages with the

1087
01:20:43.640 --> 01:20:48.039
complete file, and inside there are
probably I'm guessing about fifteen pages of notes,

1088
01:20:49.760 --> 01:20:55.840
taking the best way I can figure
notes taken from right Patterson over these

1089
01:20:56.199 --> 01:21:00.960
these mimograph notes are the originals.
They're handwritten. There's the xerox copies,

1090
01:21:00.000 --> 01:21:04.479
but there handwritten originals and then xerox
the page of xerox and I stuck one

1091
01:21:04.479 --> 01:21:08.680
of them on my website and it's
actually got the symbol on it, and

1092
01:21:09.159 --> 01:21:15.359
it you know, it talks about
Sergeant Shavez saying that it says air Force

1093
01:21:15.439 --> 01:21:18.600
personnel, which I believe that the
original story was supposed to be Army.

1094
01:21:19.600 --> 01:21:25.000
Captain Holder told him, but air
Force personnel said the substitute as symbol.

1095
01:21:26.000 --> 01:21:29.239
That doesn't prove, you know,
that that symbol that is the truth,

1096
01:21:29.319 --> 01:21:31.960
but they wrote it down. I
mean, it does prove all these years

1097
01:21:32.000 --> 01:21:35.680
that raised all that symbol was told
that symbol If you ask me because all

1098
01:21:35.720 --> 01:21:40.479
the it says on there that the
police officers told, you know, the

1099
01:21:40.800 --> 01:21:43.760
air Force, that they were told
to use a different symbol. Line he

1100
01:21:43.840 --> 01:21:46.479
was told to use a different symbol
down there, right. And then there

1101
01:21:46.520 --> 01:21:51.880
are also real good quality pictures that
came with. I got a Manila folder

1102
01:21:51.960 --> 01:21:58.479
that came with like thirteen folders from
the scene really and the site actually where

1103
01:21:58.520 --> 01:22:00.840
the pad Oh yeah, yeah,
you can see the burnt bushes and they're

1104
01:22:00.880 --> 01:22:04.199
better than anything you can see online. I put a few of them on

1105
01:22:04.239 --> 01:22:09.560
my site there. You can see
the scorch burst bushes. They were taken

1106
01:22:09.680 --> 01:22:12.880
the next day. I believe a
lot of them were taken by the newspaper,

1107
01:22:12.920 --> 01:22:16.199
but not all of them. And
you have the police officers had already

1108
01:22:16.279 --> 01:22:23.600
placed the rocks around the impressions.
But they're pretty good quality pictures. Now.

1109
01:22:23.640 --> 01:22:27.199
When I when the Black Vault had
the Blue Book files there for a

1110
01:22:27.239 --> 01:22:30.279
week or two, and that was
that was nice to get on air and

1111
01:22:30.359 --> 01:22:33.399
compare compare things. Oh you had
how long have you had these? Now?

1112
01:22:33.640 --> 01:22:38.479
You said over a year. I've
had the first box ince September of

1113
01:22:38.520 --> 01:22:41.920
twenty thirteen. But I kind of
just kept them to myself. I got

1114
01:22:41.960 --> 01:22:45.880
the other stuff actually last June.
Okay, just to remind the we have

1115
01:22:45.920 --> 01:22:48.319
a number of people in the chat
room. No one's really too active in

1116
01:22:48.399 --> 01:22:51.079
there, but if you're listening live, you can jump in the chat room

1117
01:22:51.119 --> 01:22:57.399
on PODCASTUFO dot com and it's really
easy sign in and ask our guests a

1118
01:22:57.560 --> 01:23:00.760
question. Also, if Chris happened
to be listening out there and you want

1119
01:23:00.760 --> 01:23:04.279
to call in, either one of
you or both of you that six zero

1120
01:23:04.600 --> 01:23:12.640
three nine six seven four o three
to zero one more time six h three

1121
01:23:13.279 --> 01:23:16.000
nine six seven four oh three to
zero, You're welcome to call in.

1122
01:23:16.840 --> 01:23:21.880
Okay, so sorry to interrupt you, and go ahead. They but yeah,

1123
01:23:21.920 --> 01:23:28.319
that the scorero file. I'm trying
to put a timeline. I talked

1124
01:23:28.359 --> 01:23:30.000
to Lieutenant about that file, you
know that. I asked him, did

1125
01:23:30.039 --> 01:23:32.520
you put this one together for the
press, and he said it was put

1126
01:23:32.560 --> 01:23:36.840
together by David Moody, who was
the sergeant Moody, he was the guy

1127
01:23:38.560 --> 01:23:42.239
from right Patterson that was down there
investigating, and he said that he had

1128
01:23:42.319 --> 01:23:45.399
put that together and he had spoke
to him about that case. I mean

1129
01:23:45.439 --> 01:23:48.279
that one he remembered talking to him
about. And he said Moody was convinced

1130
01:23:48.279 --> 01:23:53.800
that it was a NASA one of
their lunar landers himself, which I've never

1131
01:23:53.840 --> 01:23:57.439
bought that story. That's totally ridiculous. Speak them things. I made them

1132
01:23:57.520 --> 01:24:00.439
things for wobble, and there would
have been a crew out there that was

1133
01:24:00.479 --> 01:24:03.119
the case. Yeah, there's a
lot that didn't make any sense with that

1134
01:24:03.239 --> 01:24:06.520
claim, but that's was there.
But there's a lot of I mean a

1135
01:24:06.560 --> 01:24:10.800
lot a lot of things. You'll
see. I was going page for page

1136
01:24:10.840 --> 01:24:14.760
on the Black Vault, seeing what
I have. Some stuff I have that's

1137
01:24:14.800 --> 01:24:17.479
not that not in the government files. Some stuff that's in the government files

1138
01:24:17.880 --> 01:24:21.119
is not in my book. So
I was just trying to I steal a

1139
01:24:21.159 --> 01:24:24.720
lot of research to do that try
to figure those out. MA that Black

1140
01:24:24.800 --> 01:24:27.359
Vault was handy, but it only
lasted a week or so and they took

1141
01:24:27.399 --> 01:24:30.159
it away. So kind of the
other ones are a little harder to look

1142
01:24:30.199 --> 01:24:33.880
into things. It's time consuming,
I'll put that way. But I've also

1143
01:24:33.920 --> 01:24:39.000
got a lot of just some of
the let's say, some of the photos

1144
01:24:39.039 --> 01:24:43.680
I have. I'm going to point
out another case here in particular, nineteen

1145
01:24:43.760 --> 01:24:48.000
fifty two Cuba. It's one that
in the Project Blue Book files is listed

1146
01:24:48.079 --> 01:24:53.000
as a case missing a card missing. I got several pictures. It's just

1147
01:24:53.079 --> 01:24:59.880
a dot from that one citing I've
got a Homer, New York and April

1148
01:25:00.319 --> 01:25:04.359
eleventh, nineteen sixty four had a
doctor him and his wife and their two

1149
01:25:04.439 --> 01:25:09.199
kids were having a picnic and saw
a craft come down and break off into

1150
01:25:09.199 --> 01:25:14.760
different pieces and maneuver around over a
forty five minute period. Was why they

1151
01:25:14.760 --> 01:25:18.520
didn't have a camera. And his
wife sketched the pictures for the Air Force,

1152
01:25:19.319 --> 01:25:23.479
and I don't have it written in
my files, but I've seen it

1153
01:25:23.560 --> 01:25:29.239
online where they submitted, you know, seven photos and seven glass slides to

1154
01:25:29.359 --> 01:25:32.439
the Air Force. Well, the
glass slides are in this collection. I

1155
01:25:32.560 --> 01:25:36.720
doubt the Air Force would have made
duplicates of them. So there's a you

1156
01:25:36.760 --> 01:25:42.159
know, quite a few things in
here that aren't that are are one of

1157
01:25:42.239 --> 01:25:45.439
a kind that I've you know,
I haven't figure out what to do with

1158
01:25:45.600 --> 01:25:50.880
yet. There are several lots of
books in here too. I'm looking right

1159
01:25:50.920 --> 01:25:57.319
now at the book Incident at Exeter. Oh yeah, it's a xerox copy,

1160
01:25:57.399 --> 01:26:00.720
but it was Heinez copy because it's
got his name on it. I

1161
01:26:00.800 --> 01:26:02.159
mean it was his original. I
think he copied it and gave it to

1162
01:26:02.199 --> 01:26:09.800
the Air Force. But it is
heavily highlighted inside is as well, not

1163
01:26:09.960 --> 01:26:15.039
annotated. Well, I mean there's
question marks and different things and smiley faces

1164
01:26:15.119 --> 01:26:17.800
and things like that, but a
lot of highlights, smiley faces, yeah,

1165
01:26:18.039 --> 01:26:23.000
just different little doodles and things in
it where they've I mean, it's

1166
01:26:23.000 --> 01:26:25.359
a lot of the I've got a
lot of the research tools. That's why.

1167
01:26:25.399 --> 01:26:28.680
I think a lot of it came
from their desk. Lots of manuals

1168
01:26:28.720 --> 01:26:31.600
and regulations and everything, and they
had some pretty interesting books in here.

1169
01:26:31.640 --> 01:26:38.479
They even had a copy of the
Nightcap Evident UFO Evidence Book from nineteen sixty

1170
01:26:38.520 --> 01:26:41.239
four. Well, hey, let
me let me just ask you this up

1171
01:26:41.800 --> 01:26:45.439
was this is just out of my
own ignorance. Here was a project blue

1172
01:26:45.479 --> 01:26:49.399
book at Wright Patterson. Oh yeah, yeah, see I didn't even know

1173
01:26:49.479 --> 01:26:51.880
that, but I mean now that
you know, it even makes more sense.

1174
01:26:53.800 --> 01:26:58.039
Yeah, it was there the whole
time they started their Well, project

1175
01:26:58.119 --> 01:27:01.920
Signs started there in forty seven,
blue book starting fifty two and went up

1176
01:27:02.000 --> 01:27:05.399
to sixty nine. But I've got
a lot of memos, you know about

1177
01:27:06.359 --> 01:27:13.680
telling that basically, it's a lot
of notes that they had telling them what

1178
01:27:13.880 --> 01:27:17.199
was coming as far as you know, the Condon Report and lots of There's

1179
01:27:17.199 --> 01:27:20.840
even a folder in here that's I
think it's the actual stuff they sent for

1180
01:27:21.000 --> 01:27:28.159
the Condon Report. It's got a
lot of sightings listed in it, photographs

1181
01:27:28.239 --> 01:27:31.800
put in it. It's what they
sent out to Colorado. That's what the

1182
01:27:31.880 --> 01:27:34.279
folder says on the side of it. So I don't know if it's a

1183
01:27:34.319 --> 01:27:38.319
copy of the one or the actual
one, but it's got a lot of

1184
01:27:39.560 --> 01:27:44.279
stats in it and everything, and
they've got a lot of statistics that came

1185
01:27:44.359 --> 01:27:49.000
with this. There's I'm trying to
grab some of these books here, just

1186
01:27:49.119 --> 01:27:55.199
different. They had memberships to meteor
clubs, so they could, you know,

1187
01:27:55.640 --> 01:28:00.279
a lot of the research tools of
things they were looking into. Now

1188
01:28:00.359 --> 01:28:02.199
when they were there at the end, the lieutenant, it was just down

1189
01:28:02.279 --> 01:28:06.319
to him and basically three other guys
when he was there when it shut down

1190
01:28:06.359 --> 01:28:09.760
at the end, and then for
the last couple of months it was just

1191
01:28:09.880 --> 01:28:15.640
him and Quininella. So they were
I mean, they were stretched thin as

1192
01:28:15.680 --> 01:28:21.600
far as investigating a lot going on. Now, I've they also got a

1193
01:28:21.760 --> 01:28:29.880
box of reference cards and their notes
that they used. Basically I'm assuming for

1194
01:28:30.000 --> 01:28:31.720
typing up things, you know,
when people call and ask them a question.

1195
01:28:32.039 --> 01:28:34.600
And what I found in here was
on the estimate of the situation.

1196
01:28:35.840 --> 01:28:39.159
I haven't found that in here.
I wish I would. That's one of

1197
01:28:39.199 --> 01:28:43.319
the things first things I was looking
for. I've found several letters and correspondences

1198
01:28:43.359 --> 01:28:48.920
that mention it, and I got
one here. That's basically it's what they're

1199
01:28:49.199 --> 01:28:53.520
to say. Best I can figure, is what they're to say if somebody

1200
01:28:53.600 --> 01:29:00.359
inquires about the estimate of the situation
and it says that basically Captain Rupel said

1201
01:29:00.439 --> 01:29:03.279
everything about it that he could say
in his book. I mean, basically,

1202
01:29:03.359 --> 01:29:06.479
they're saying what he said was true
as far as it was brought up

1203
01:29:06.560 --> 01:29:10.880
through the chains, and then they
told him to kill it and burn it.

1204
01:29:11.880 --> 01:29:15.000
I mean, that's what they even. I found it surprisingly to see

1205
01:29:15.039 --> 01:29:16.600
that that they had that written down
in here, because normally therefore said it

1206
01:29:16.640 --> 01:29:23.399
didn't exist, never existed at all. So there's a lot of little little

1207
01:29:23.439 --> 01:29:29.039
things like that in there. Wow. So if I offered you like a

1208
01:29:29.119 --> 01:29:32.520
grand right now, would you take
it? Oh? No, I'm just

1209
01:29:33.439 --> 01:29:38.079
I'm a history guy to myself.
I enjoy Still I'm not done looking at

1210
01:29:38.119 --> 01:29:42.680
it. Yet put that way,
give the people of Ohio a chance to

1211
01:29:42.720 --> 01:29:46.079
see it. I take it to
the libraries around here. Things like that

1212
01:29:46.359 --> 01:29:51.560
kind of showed it off a little
bit. On a serious note, you

1213
01:29:51.600 --> 01:29:56.359
know, I think of stuff like
this. I actually have. I actually

1214
01:29:56.439 --> 01:30:02.199
have a former museum. It's actually
literally a former museum with the showcases and

1215
01:30:03.520 --> 01:30:05.760
you know, an alarm system and
all that, and I keep thinking,

1216
01:30:05.880 --> 01:30:10.560
wow, I would love to like
house something like that, so a lot

1217
01:30:10.600 --> 01:30:13.760
of people could come in and take
a look. So maybe when you get

1218
01:30:13.800 --> 01:30:15.800
tired of them down the road,
we'll talk to some other people I can

1219
01:30:15.880 --> 01:30:19.239
talk to about this. But it
would be a fun place because it's like

1220
01:30:19.640 --> 01:30:23.720
B and B. People could stay
and you know, read the stuff.

1221
01:30:23.840 --> 01:30:27.000
So if you're listening and you have
tons of money and you want to help

1222
01:30:27.039 --> 01:30:30.000
out with the project and open a
UFO museum, I got the place.

1223
01:30:30.760 --> 01:30:32.960
Okay. Well, yeah, I'm
not sure what I'm gonna do just yet,

1224
01:30:33.039 --> 01:30:36.079
but I'll keep that in mind.
I know I'd like it to end

1225
01:30:36.159 --> 01:30:40.039
up somewhere where public can see it
sometime. I mean, I hate when

1226
01:30:40.079 --> 01:30:42.560
things like that get put away and
nobody gets to look at them again.

1227
01:30:42.760 --> 01:30:45.279
Yeah, and you can I think
on a serious note. I mean,

1228
01:30:45.399 --> 01:30:48.439
you know, I'm sort of joking
around a little bit, but but a

1229
01:30:48.520 --> 01:30:53.039
little bit of it, you know, like I could always be you know,

1230
01:30:53.199 --> 01:30:56.880
talk to about stuff like this.
But I do want to say how

1231
01:30:56.960 --> 01:30:59.680
that works a lot of times is
you can have things out on loan.

1232
01:31:00.439 --> 01:31:03.079
You know, things can be out
and loans different like historical societies or someone

1233
01:31:03.119 --> 01:31:08.800
that actually, uh, someone that
would really have an interest, like let's

1234
01:31:09.000 --> 01:31:13.279
just say let's throw this out there, that the Roswell Museum would take it

1235
01:31:13.359 --> 01:31:15.119
in and display it for you for
a year or two. That these are

1236
01:31:15.159 --> 01:31:20.640
all possibilities, and that is a
place right there where definitely people interested would

1237
01:31:20.680 --> 01:31:24.079
get a chance. I've been down
there. It's a nice, nice little

1238
01:31:24.079 --> 01:31:28.840
setup to have back there a few
years ago. Well, I took all

1239
01:31:28.920 --> 01:31:31.520
these, a lot of the loose
file there were when I got these,

1240
01:31:31.760 --> 01:31:35.239
and I opened all the boxes and
stacked everything. It was probably five foot

1241
01:31:35.319 --> 01:31:40.079
tall of papers and books involved.
Now a lot some of these books are

1242
01:31:40.159 --> 01:31:44.920
xerox copies, but you know,
they're still decent books, but they were.

1243
01:31:45.199 --> 01:31:47.319
It took me a while to separate
everything out, trying to figure and

1244
01:31:47.359 --> 01:31:51.399
I've put everything in binders, you
know, in acid free binder sleeves.

1245
01:31:51.680 --> 01:31:56.960
That way people when they when I
do come and share them with somebody there,

1246
01:31:57.479 --> 01:31:59.640
they actually get to touch them and
look at them. There were a

1247
01:31:59.680 --> 01:32:01.199
lot of I guess I haven't even
talked about the films. There were films

1248
01:32:01.239 --> 01:32:06.760
in there, like sixteen millimeters or
something sixteen. There's a sixteen millimeter of

1249
01:32:06.840 --> 01:32:14.520
the tree Mentton sighting from nineteen fifty
two. But I went to have him.

1250
01:32:14.560 --> 01:32:18.079
I had them all transferred to digital
format. That one was I was

1251
01:32:18.159 --> 01:32:21.600
disappointed in it. First of all. I was hoping because Officer knew House

1252
01:32:21.880 --> 01:32:25.960
You always said that there was about
twenty feet missing off his film when he

1253
01:32:26.000 --> 01:32:30.119
got it back from the Air Force, so you know it's I didn't try

1254
01:32:30.159 --> 01:32:32.680
to measure it. I kind of
wanted to get account on it when I

1255
01:32:32.720 --> 01:32:36.119
got done. But the thing is
sixty years old and was very brittle.

1256
01:32:36.600 --> 01:32:40.560
So it's kind of disappointed in the
quality of the video I got from it.

1257
01:32:40.680 --> 01:32:43.119
But I was able to get a
copy of it. But what you

1258
01:32:43.199 --> 01:32:47.159
can find online looks better. It's
unknown if it's longer just because of the

1259
01:32:47.239 --> 01:32:53.239
quality, but I will say it
finishes it off. It's got somebody sewing.

1260
01:32:53.439 --> 01:32:57.479
I'm assuming it's you know, him
or his wife, so it may

1261
01:32:57.600 --> 01:33:00.479
have the extra on it. It's
just I've not been able to to totally

1262
01:33:00.560 --> 01:33:04.640
determine that yet. Or is it
a gray sewing Oh yeah, now,

1263
01:33:05.600 --> 01:33:08.680
person, I thought soldern, but
it took me a little bit figure out

1264
01:33:08.680 --> 01:33:13.000
that's a sewing machine. Okay.
Now, is there actually negatives as well?

1265
01:33:14.079 --> 01:33:17.000
There are on photos? Yes,
yeah, there's quite a few negatives,

1266
01:33:17.119 --> 01:33:20.239
quite a few negatives. They're not
all of them, but some of

1267
01:33:20.319 --> 01:33:24.880
them there are. Uh now,
I did back to the score O case.

1268
01:33:24.920 --> 01:33:30.319
There was an interesting mock up in
there that there was a toy police

1269
01:33:30.359 --> 01:33:33.039
car and a toy police officer running
and then a craft, you know,

1270
01:33:33.159 --> 01:33:38.399
down in a golly desert scene that
you know, looked like the Coro craft.

1271
01:33:40.239 --> 01:33:43.640
Obviously the car wasn't the same color. But on the back on the

1272
01:33:43.720 --> 01:33:46.840
envelope there was nine copies of this
picture in a Manila envelope and it actually,

1273
01:33:47.079 --> 01:33:49.840
pardon me, they actually made a
setup of this and took a picture

1274
01:33:49.880 --> 01:33:53.800
of it. I don't know if
they made it or somebody made it and

1275
01:33:53.880 --> 01:33:57.319
sent it to them, but the
negatives are in there and nine copies of

1276
01:33:57.399 --> 01:34:00.399
the picture and it says the coro, which I mean it was, That's

1277
01:34:00.439 --> 01:34:02.359
what it was. But it says
the coro mock up on you know they'd

1278
01:34:02.359 --> 01:34:05.960
written on the back of the pictures. Wow, I've been able to figure

1279
01:34:06.039 --> 01:34:11.399
that out. I've actually here in
the last few days a few days came

1280
01:34:11.479 --> 01:34:15.520
up with a few phone numbers from
former Blue Book staff people. I haven't

1281
01:34:15.560 --> 01:34:17.840
called him yet. You know a
couple of secretaries that are still live.

1282
01:34:19.239 --> 01:34:23.119
That's one of my endeavors is to
try to I want to try to figure

1283
01:34:23.119 --> 01:34:26.079
out where that picture came from,
if it was the Air Force that made

1284
01:34:26.119 --> 01:34:29.640
it. I'm hoping that somebody that
was back there in sixty four, which

1285
01:34:29.680 --> 01:34:31.880
I have a lady's phone number that
was. I don't know that she'll remember

1286
01:34:31.920 --> 01:34:35.319
it or probably not, but I
want to kind of ask her and see

1287
01:34:35.319 --> 01:34:39.439
what she says. I don't know
if it was made from somebody down that

1288
01:34:39.560 --> 01:34:43.960
way. I just have no answer
for that. And the lieutenant didn't either.

1289
01:34:44.079 --> 01:34:45.319
Like I said, it was two
and a half years before his times

1290
01:34:45.920 --> 01:34:50.319
he had he didn't even remember that
they were in there. Now. Another

1291
01:34:50.399 --> 01:34:59.520
film I had was the Maline,
Illinois officer Fisher. He had taken seen

1292
01:34:59.560 --> 01:35:02.760
the scars shape or the box car
shaped craft in the sky. There was

1293
01:35:02.840 --> 01:35:09.760
an eight millimeter of that. I
have another sixteen millimeter. It's just a

1294
01:35:09.840 --> 01:35:14.239
dot in the sky and the only
thing written on the case is UFO Unclassified

1295
01:35:14.960 --> 01:35:18.000
and Foreign Technology Division. So I've
not really been able to figure out exactly

1296
01:35:18.079 --> 01:35:23.359
what it is. But there were
sound, real real tapes in there also.

1297
01:35:24.640 --> 01:35:29.840
One of them was from that It
was a March of nineteen sixty eight,

1298
01:35:30.560 --> 01:35:34.399
ended up being a zon Russian satellite
re enter in the atmosphere. But

1299
01:35:34.760 --> 01:35:39.920
as there's probably a good hour interview
with police officers from Morgantown, West Virginia,

1300
01:35:40.159 --> 01:35:44.119
this siding was all over the northeast, and the lieutenant actually told me

1301
01:35:44.159 --> 01:35:46.800
it was one of his favorite ones, you know, and he was never

1302
01:35:47.119 --> 01:35:53.520
more sure about a sighting than that
one right there, and he'd never figured

1303
01:35:53.560 --> 01:35:56.119
out exactly where it landed, but
he had it down to like a fifty

1304
01:35:56.159 --> 01:36:01.000
square mile area up in northeastern Pennslvania, southern New York in that area.

1305
01:36:02.199 --> 01:36:08.199
But there was also a lot of
radio interviews on there from shows back in

1306
01:36:08.239 --> 01:36:11.479
the fifties on some of these sound
tapes too, So the Air Force kept

1307
01:36:11.479 --> 01:36:14.199
track of a lot of that stuff. Now, did they have anything really

1308
01:36:14.279 --> 01:36:17.960
fringy on there, you know,
like some real fringy books on contactees or

1309
01:36:17.960 --> 01:36:23.800
anything as well, or was it
really sticking to cases more or less?

1310
01:36:24.199 --> 01:36:27.359
You know, there was one book
and it was a Frank Stranger's book,

1311
01:36:28.880 --> 01:36:34.159
Flying Salcerama, and it was autographed
to another guy in fifty nine. But

1312
01:36:34.760 --> 01:36:38.399
it was in that box and stuff, so I'm assumed the only thing.

1313
01:36:38.399 --> 01:36:42.600
I can't assume it was around their
desks there in the Blue Book office,

1314
01:36:42.880 --> 01:36:45.680
you know, when he was cleaning
up and he just kind of threw it

1315
01:36:45.760 --> 01:36:47.399
in. So yeah, there was
I mean, that was the only thing

1316
01:36:47.479 --> 01:36:50.199
fringy I found in there. Everything
else was more. I mean, there

1317
01:36:50.279 --> 01:36:54.159
was a lot of neat reference books, like I'm looking at one here.

1318
01:36:54.159 --> 01:36:57.720
It's the reference for Outstanding UFO Siding
Reports. And they had a lot of

1319
01:36:57.760 --> 01:37:01.760
reference books like that. There were
a couple of textbooks for physics from the

1320
01:37:02.479 --> 01:37:08.439
US Air Force Academy also, but
they actually do talk about unidentified flying objects

1321
01:37:08.520 --> 01:37:13.039
in these books. The lieutenant didn't
remember. I was asking particular about him

1322
01:37:13.039 --> 01:37:16.319
because he has you know, he's
a physicist by training. He didn't remember

1323
01:37:16.319 --> 01:37:19.840
if they were from his training or
Project blue Book material. He couldn't tell

1324
01:37:19.880 --> 01:37:23.479
me. He didn't even remember them. He just sent them to me.

1325
01:37:24.760 --> 01:37:29.800
There are lots of books of Another
thing that was in there was a rollodex

1326
01:37:29.840 --> 01:37:34.359
of every kind of a who's who
of UFOs back in the sixties. Stanton

1327
01:37:34.399 --> 01:37:39.239
Friedman's names in there, and you
know his address and everything, phone numbers,

1328
01:37:39.279 --> 01:37:44.000
addresses and everything like that. Now, just just Nightcap. Let's talk

1329
01:37:44.000 --> 01:37:46.600
a little bit about Nightcap. Now, Nightcap was was actually going on the

1330
01:37:46.680 --> 01:37:55.359
same time somewhere in the sixties.
So Project Blue Book and Nightcap were both,

1331
01:37:56.159 --> 01:38:00.239
you know, uh in session basically
at the same time. Is there

1332
01:38:00.880 --> 01:38:04.000
have you found any reference to NICAP
and NCAP papers or anything mixed in there

1333
01:38:04.039 --> 01:38:08.239
as well? I found a few. I found a few. Nothing that's

1334
01:38:08.560 --> 01:38:12.880
groundbreaking, but I mean there's a
lot of Nightcap books, so they obviously

1335
01:38:14.000 --> 01:38:16.920
either shared information with them or at
least followed them. M h. They

1336
01:38:17.399 --> 01:38:20.800
there's several of these reference books are
you know, are NICAP related. And

1337
01:38:20.880 --> 01:38:27.880
there are paperworking there that's you know
that sny CAP. Lots of correspondences from

1338
01:38:29.119 --> 01:38:33.279
Carl Sagan, I mean a ton
of them from Philly Philip class uh something,

1339
01:38:33.319 --> 01:38:38.039
I mean, he he, There's
almost not a letter without him making

1340
01:38:38.079 --> 01:38:41.000
fun of somebody. Yeah, like
you know, that's into the subject.

1341
01:38:41.439 --> 01:38:44.800
I mean, I didn't know much
about him himself, so I started looking

1342
01:38:44.840 --> 01:38:46.720
at these and kind of got you
know, a better handle on what what

1343
01:38:46.880 --> 01:38:53.439
he what he did he Uh.
There's a lot of uh things like that

1344
01:38:53.600 --> 01:38:58.000
in there. Correspondences though, between
James McDonald and Uh, I got a

1345
01:38:58.039 --> 01:39:02.680
book set up here. There was
also they had a folder on Nora AD

1346
01:39:03.479 --> 01:39:09.319
and space defense. A lot of
I mean this stuff it's fifty years old,

1347
01:39:09.359 --> 01:39:13.520
hopefully it's not relevant anymore, but
pictures, you know, inside the

1348
01:39:13.600 --> 01:39:18.079
place, the pictures of their telescopes, pictures of radar locations, charts,

1349
01:39:18.479 --> 01:39:23.600
things like that, lots of things
from the FAA and this same folder also

1350
01:39:24.319 --> 01:39:28.760
Once again though, I mean they
did a lot of research. They can't

1351
01:39:29.439 --> 01:39:31.439
deny that they didn't try, just
by seeing the stuff they have in here.

1352
01:39:31.840 --> 01:39:40.520
Now, what was the tone of
the McDonald that correspondence? He was

1353
01:39:40.600 --> 01:39:44.760
usually more I can't think of them
right off. Just second here I'm getting

1354
01:39:44.800 --> 01:39:50.199
that book out. He was his
cases were more trying to offer solutions,

1355
01:39:51.359 --> 01:39:56.159
you know, logical solutions what they
had guesses more. Now I've got a

1356
01:39:56.199 --> 01:40:02.359
lot from Donald Roby. He wrote
a lot of books on the green meteors

1357
01:40:02.560 --> 01:40:08.079
and the fireballs and plasma. A
lot in there from him. You know,

1358
01:40:08.119 --> 01:40:11.840
there's a lot of most of the
correspondences are trying to help them explain.

1359
01:40:12.359 --> 01:40:16.960
They would send these guys papers.
Even I've got a document from sixty

1360
01:40:17.000 --> 01:40:20.439
six where the Air Force says they're
going to start using scientists. But some

1361
01:40:20.600 --> 01:40:25.079
of these are from way before that, where they were actually using them and

1362
01:40:25.119 --> 01:40:30.840
asking them questions about things. I'll
have to get some of the some of

1363
01:40:30.880 --> 01:40:34.800
those scanned in and put on my
website. Though. There are a lot

1364
01:40:34.840 --> 01:40:39.439
of Air Force publications about AIDS,
but I'm looking at one now, aids

1365
01:40:39.479 --> 01:40:44.520
to Identification of Flying Objects. I
mean there's three or four different issues of

1366
01:40:44.600 --> 01:40:46.960
that. Inside it would have the
stats and then you know, tell you

1367
01:40:47.239 --> 01:40:51.600
what the latest airplanes that are out
there. Things like that. Stuff I've

1368
01:40:51.640 --> 01:40:58.159
never seen anywhere before. There's a
lot of stuff on Heinech. Now.

1369
01:40:58.600 --> 01:41:00.720
You know, by the time the
lieutenant was there, Heinich had already kind

1370
01:41:00.760 --> 01:41:08.880
of changed as far as pro UFO
pro aliens and the Lieutenant him butted heads

1371
01:41:08.920 --> 01:41:13.640
a lot. Now, even in
his book he mentions the Lieutenant you know,

1372
01:41:13.800 --> 01:41:19.720
said that the lieutenant was surprised that
Marunt that Heinich talked about him in

1373
01:41:19.800 --> 01:41:23.520
a good way because he had to
get on him so much. He had

1374
01:41:23.520 --> 01:41:28.920
to get on him. Taken six
months to complete a case. A lot

1375
01:41:29.000 --> 01:41:32.119
of these files that I have that
are single page, they'll have written on

1376
01:41:32.199 --> 01:41:36.800
it Heinek Special, you know,
an inak Pen. Basically it was at

1377
01:41:36.840 --> 01:41:41.960
the late the ones in the late
sixties, basically where the lieutenant said everything

1378
01:41:42.039 --> 01:41:45.359
he saw he wanted to unidentify.
So they kind of butt heads a little

1379
01:41:45.359 --> 01:41:48.560
bit. But I do have like
one of his contracts and a lot of

1380
01:41:48.600 --> 01:41:53.520
his bills that he would send the
Air Force copies of him not the originals,

1381
01:41:54.000 --> 01:41:56.800
copies of his bills for his time, for his each phone call he

1382
01:41:56.920 --> 01:42:02.239
made places he went from the late
say. So there there's some pretty neat

1383
01:42:02.239 --> 01:42:05.199
stuff in there like that. But
there's just a lot of little books,

1384
01:42:05.439 --> 01:42:11.000
a lot of pictures, a lot
of color pictures. I mean when you

1385
01:42:11.039 --> 01:42:15.399
get online now, like on full
three's website, and I'm going to pull

1386
01:42:15.439 --> 01:42:19.439
out one hearing from particular is Governor's
Island, New York in nineteen fifty two.

1387
01:42:19.560 --> 01:42:24.479
July of nineteen fifty two. It
ended up being an unidentified case and

1388
01:42:25.840 --> 01:42:28.800
I've got you know, I've got
four. There were six pictures taken.

1389
01:42:28.840 --> 01:42:33.640
I guess I've got four of them. They're pretty pretty interesting pictures with the

1390
01:42:33.680 --> 01:42:38.159
color and everything which you can see
in them as far as you know what

1391
01:42:38.239 --> 01:42:41.880
the black and white parts are.
So you know, I'm not opposed to

1392
01:42:41.920 --> 01:42:45.159
sharing them with people if they you
know, if somebody's interested in a particular

1393
01:42:45.279 --> 01:42:47.079
case and a to shoot me an
email and if I have anything on it,

1394
01:42:47.119 --> 01:42:49.279
I'll kind of share it with them. That's how I kind of got

1395
01:42:49.319 --> 01:42:54.680
hooked up with Ray and Chris,
and I got another guy that's probably been

1396
01:42:54.720 --> 01:42:58.079
on your show before, Dave Marler
out of Albuquerque, New Mexico. He's

1397
01:42:58.159 --> 01:43:00.039
coming up on April fifteenth. Actually, I always think, okay, well,

1398
01:43:00.119 --> 01:43:03.640
me and him, we do a
lot of share and information over the

1399
01:43:03.680 --> 01:43:08.199
internet, and he kind of helps
me out a little bit when questions down

1400
01:43:08.279 --> 01:43:11.800
that way too. So I've got
a couple guys of working with me a

1401
01:43:11.840 --> 01:43:15.680
little bit trying to sort this stuff
out. Speaking of Dave Marler, he's

1402
01:43:15.800 --> 01:43:20.880
known for triangular UFOs. He wrote
a book on it. Great guy.

1403
01:43:21.279 --> 01:43:25.720
You know, you hear his name
A lot. And speaking of that,

1404
01:43:25.960 --> 01:43:32.600
I noticed in these pictures there's a
triangular UFO and a light formation daylight sighting.

1405
01:43:33.720 --> 01:43:36.600
Is it a color picture, No, it's a black and white picture.

1406
01:43:38.800 --> 01:43:43.319
I can't pull it up right now, but I just was going to

1407
01:43:43.359 --> 01:43:46.439
ask you. It sounds like you
wouldn't be able to cite where that particular

1408
01:43:46.640 --> 01:43:50.479
one was. Yeah, it's actually
out of a window of a car or

1409
01:43:50.560 --> 01:43:56.840
a train or oh that's the that's
the one in Massachusets Salem, Massachusetts in

1410
01:43:57.279 --> 01:44:03.840
nineteen fifty two. I believe it
sets up on the photo image July fifty

1411
01:44:03.880 --> 01:44:06.720
two, Massachusetts. Yes, you
got it. Yeah, now they I

1412
01:44:06.800 --> 01:44:12.600
mean the Air Force. I believe
that one was classified as an unknown Some

1413
01:44:12.720 --> 01:44:16.399
people will say it's reflection of lights
inside. Now that picture, when you

1414
01:44:16.680 --> 01:44:20.079
normally when you see that picture,
it's cropped, you can't see the actual

1415
01:44:20.159 --> 01:44:24.479
window, but you can see there
that they're inside of a building taking that

1416
01:44:24.560 --> 01:44:30.439
picture out in that picture and that
one, I can't the exact classification that

1417
01:44:30.479 --> 01:44:32.840
one's escaping me right now, but
I know it's one you're talking about.

1418
01:44:32.920 --> 01:44:36.079
And I'm pretty sure that one ended
up being unidentified, even though a lot

1419
01:44:36.119 --> 01:44:40.720
of people say it's lights reflect you
know, lights off of a ceiling reflecting

1420
01:44:40.800 --> 01:44:44.319
through the glass. Well, that
is a possibility for sure, you know,

1421
01:44:44.680 --> 01:44:46.800
look at it. And I've got
the paperwork on that. And they,

1422
01:44:46.960 --> 01:44:50.239
you know, in their investigation,
they're talking about the way the sun's

1423
01:44:50.279 --> 01:44:55.359
hitting the cars and the shadows and
the reflections off the cars. A lot

1424
01:44:55.399 --> 01:44:59.239
of these I'd like to as I
get time, I try to one of

1425
01:44:59.239 --> 01:45:00.399
them. I mean, I've got
some many things I'm trying to do with

1426
01:45:00.520 --> 01:45:04.840
these. Count how many he's in
there, but I'm trying to investigate cases,

1427
01:45:04.920 --> 01:45:08.840
you know, with present technology as
far as star charts and everything,

1428
01:45:10.079 --> 01:45:13.479
and it's a little time consuming,
but that's one I want to work on

1429
01:45:13.560 --> 01:45:16.479
a little bit. And one thing
I did not say the three books I

1430
01:45:16.600 --> 01:45:19.920
was telling you about to have all
the case listings. They've got it.

1431
01:45:20.000 --> 01:45:23.119
First of all, they've got all
the It's funny, they've got all the

1432
01:45:23.239 --> 01:45:27.279
navy listings in them, all the
military at sea ones, all the coordinates,

1433
01:45:27.319 --> 01:45:30.600
which when I told him I had
those books, he said, you

1434
01:45:30.640 --> 01:45:33.560
know, I probably shouldn't say this, but you know, there might be

1435
01:45:33.640 --> 01:45:40.800
stuff in those books that we didn't
send down the Maxwell. Now, all

1436
01:45:40.880 --> 01:45:44.439
that did was make me try to
count them all, and that's a horror.

1437
01:45:44.520 --> 01:45:47.000
I just I just went through counting
the Ohio ones and that took me

1438
01:45:47.079 --> 01:45:51.000
a good week trying to get you
see how many there were there. But

1439
01:45:51.119 --> 01:45:56.159
that's you can't really do it online. I mean, there's just so many

1440
01:45:56.359 --> 01:45:59.840
different versions of things out there and
things blacked out. So you know,

1441
01:46:00.119 --> 01:46:02.079
over time here, I hope to
have more answers on the actual count in

1442
01:46:02.159 --> 01:46:06.199
those books to see if it's the
same Twelvey six hundred and eighteen that Blue

1443
01:46:06.199 --> 01:46:10.199
Books supposed to had. You know, in the same seven hundred and one.

1444
01:46:11.439 --> 01:46:13.880
There could be more, could be
less. That's kind of what I'm

1445
01:46:14.279 --> 01:46:19.600
one of my projects I'm working on. I know Ohio alone, in the

1446
01:46:20.239 --> 01:46:26.359
twenty two years of project Blue Book
and Sign and Grudge had eleven and twenty

1447
01:46:26.439 --> 01:46:30.640
four sightings, so twenty two of
them aroundknowns that's Ohio had a lot of

1448
01:46:30.680 --> 01:46:35.439
them, and especially the Dayton area, which kind of surprised me. Well,

1449
01:46:36.119 --> 01:46:40.199
I believe that's what our guest said
last week, if I remember right,

1450
01:46:40.720 --> 01:46:45.079
also from Ohio. I was looking
at a couple of documents I wanted

1451
01:46:45.119 --> 01:46:53.880
to talk about one and we have
a FAA Federal Aviation agency document here basically

1452
01:46:54.119 --> 01:47:00.640
on reporting of identified flying objects.
And that's interesting, you know, because

1453
01:47:00.920 --> 01:47:09.479
basically the FAA wants nothing to do
with UFOs today. Yeah, they've got

1454
01:47:09.560 --> 01:47:13.800
I've got a there was a huge
file on FAA and space tracking and radar

1455
01:47:13.960 --> 01:47:17.159
tracking in here. Yeah, trying
to find that particular one. That's okay.

1456
01:47:17.359 --> 01:47:19.520
I mean, I'm just gonna you
know, I mean, there's just

1457
01:47:19.520 --> 01:47:24.039
a couple of them that were intriguing. How many documents would you say that

1458
01:47:24.119 --> 01:47:30.520
you have approximately I've got thirty binders
that I put together that are probably two

1459
01:47:30.560 --> 01:47:38.479
inches thick on average. And then
I have a tub full of actual files,

1460
01:47:39.319 --> 01:47:44.920
probably have forty files in them that
are you know, the original ones

1461
01:47:44.920 --> 01:47:46.920
I'm not wanting to break up out
of the brown folders. A lot of

1462
01:47:46.960 --> 01:47:50.640
those are I mean historic ones Trinidad
Island, I mean, just the whole

1463
01:47:51.119 --> 01:47:56.760
interviews with all the officers, a
lot of military sightings in there, but

1464
01:47:56.960 --> 01:47:59.319
a lot of them are just single
case files. Also, you know,

1465
01:47:59.479 --> 01:48:01.319
just one pay And I asked the
lieutenant about that, I said, you

1466
01:48:01.399 --> 01:48:03.479
know, is that all there was
on ease? He said, no,

1467
01:48:03.600 --> 01:48:06.920
those were that's because he had pulled
them for the press, just the case

1468
01:48:08.000 --> 01:48:13.520
summaries. Yeah, I would say
I saw a couple of things from or

1469
01:48:13.640 --> 01:48:18.159
I saw one piece here from Carl
Sagan. Interesting, Yeah, Lieutenant,

1470
01:48:18.239 --> 01:48:21.159
he remembered that one because when he
when I was talking to him at you

1471
01:48:21.199 --> 01:48:24.279
know, first or second time,
He's like, well, there's one letter

1472
01:48:24.319 --> 01:48:26.800
I'm going to send you, you
know, he said, an autograph from

1473
01:48:26.960 --> 01:48:30.720
Carl Sagan directly to Quininella. And
he said, you'll like that. I'm

1474
01:48:30.800 --> 01:48:36.840
not sure. I'm trying to determine
if that's Carl Sagan's signature or actual secretaries.

1475
01:48:38.439 --> 01:48:41.800
Uh, that's actually we can talk
offline, and that's something I could

1476
01:48:41.840 --> 01:48:44.560
do. I do a lot of
research like that. But yeah, that's

1477
01:48:44.600 --> 01:48:48.880
interesting and what and as you can
see that one's not a copy, and

1478
01:48:48.960 --> 01:48:53.560
there's a lot of these that aren't
copies. But but all the case files

1479
01:48:53.640 --> 01:48:56.439
himself are you know, our copies, Like I say, I've got those

1480
01:48:56.479 --> 01:49:00.840
glass slides. You know, I've
got some other photos and things in here

1481
01:49:00.920 --> 01:49:04.600
that I'm assuming most of them,
like, I've not been able to research

1482
01:49:04.640 --> 01:49:08.640
all of them. If that Black
Vault has been still around, what they

1483
01:49:08.680 --> 01:49:12.199
were easy to search, you know, they had I would have had a

1484
01:49:12.239 --> 01:49:14.920
little little I'll have a little more
answers as I get some more time to

1485
01:49:15.000 --> 01:49:17.960
go through that stuff. Yep,
Yeah, that was a lot of wasted

1486
01:49:18.039 --> 01:49:23.960
work by I know, it was
just easy. I mean the other ones,

1487
01:49:24.000 --> 01:49:26.960
like say, you can search them, but that one was so easy

1488
01:49:27.039 --> 01:49:30.000
to just get on there and put
in what you wanted. And I mean

1489
01:49:30.039 --> 01:49:32.479
I was really able to cruise right
through the scorero file page for page and

1490
01:49:32.640 --> 01:49:35.560
just see what I had and what
I did, And that's kind of how

1491
01:49:35.600 --> 01:49:39.680
I came across, you know,
that stuff for Ray. Would you assume

1492
01:49:39.800 --> 01:49:45.439
that these cartoons that were in the
lot were just sent like from friends or

1493
01:49:45.119 --> 01:49:49.279
you know, those were I think
they were clearly collected by the staff,

1494
01:49:49.600 --> 01:49:53.479
and some of them are I mean
I think by the staff the whole time.

1495
01:49:53.600 --> 01:49:57.239
Some of them from the early fifties. They have dates on them.

1496
01:49:57.960 --> 01:50:00.800
You probably can't see them on there, but there's a some of them updates,

1497
01:50:00.840 --> 01:50:01.840
you know, as I say,
it's fifty one, fifty two.

1498
01:50:02.920 --> 01:50:08.479
And then there's one of them there
that's got a doodle about Captain Gregory on

1499
01:50:08.600 --> 01:50:11.720
it, and there might be more
than one that's actually doodled about him.

1500
01:50:11.880 --> 01:50:15.279
So I think it's this guy sitting
in the office, you know, clipping

1501
01:50:15.319 --> 01:50:17.880
and collecting. There's a I mean
even the funny thing is that I've got

1502
01:50:17.960 --> 01:50:23.079
there's probably one hundred and fifty cartoons. Oh wow. Yeah. Some of

1503
01:50:23.199 --> 01:50:26.640
them's napkin. I mean one of
them's a napkin with aliens on it.

1504
01:50:26.920 --> 01:50:30.720
You know, just anything they could
find, you know, that stuff on

1505
01:50:30.800 --> 01:50:31.880
there they kept. Kind of it's
kind of funny how they did. I

1506
01:50:31.920 --> 01:50:34.359
mean some of them are pretty good
too. But my favorite one is the

1507
01:50:34.399 --> 01:50:40.239
one I put on the website there
of Quintinella hypnotized in the crowd. I

1508
01:50:40.319 --> 01:50:45.720
mean that's all somebody did that obviously
from sixty six on scribbled that one on

1509
01:50:45.840 --> 01:50:48.399
there. I'll have to have to
check that out. Now, there is

1510
01:50:48.479 --> 01:50:51.359
one picture I did want to talk
to you about. In it looks like

1511
01:50:51.439 --> 01:51:00.319
a disc shaped UFO behind the tail
of a jet from the cockpit. Yeah,

1512
01:51:00.399 --> 01:51:04.039
that's like yeah, And I've tried
to figure that one out. That

1513
01:51:04.199 --> 01:51:08.359
one was loose in the box.
I mean, all the other slides were

1514
01:51:08.399 --> 01:51:11.880
in a slide box, but that
one was just loose in there in the

1515
01:51:11.920 --> 01:51:15.800
papers, and the only thing written
on it was B forty seven tail.

1516
01:51:15.399 --> 01:51:19.119
Wow. I mean, that's quite
an object in the back and it was

1517
01:51:19.199 --> 01:51:24.560
dirty. The thing was had like
a film all over it. So I

1518
01:51:24.840 --> 01:51:27.760
you know, I bought some special
alcohol and was able to clean it up.

1519
01:51:29.039 --> 01:51:31.359
And I've been trying I've dated it's
kind of a tie in as far

1520
01:51:31.439 --> 01:51:36.039
as that alien slide that's coming out
here in May right, as far as

1521
01:51:36.079 --> 01:51:40.880
the dating goes, I was able
to date that. Well, there's another

1522
01:51:40.920 --> 01:51:46.159
picture in there that shows this on
my website that shows for seven silver slides.

1523
01:51:46.960 --> 01:51:51.039
Those are the Homer New York glass
slides, but also down at the

1524
01:51:51.039 --> 01:51:55.560
bottom it's got a red and white
slide that's that particular one the casing,

1525
01:51:56.279 --> 01:51:59.479
and it's from you know, I
dated it from forty nine. I think

1526
01:51:59.520 --> 01:52:04.720
the fifty Somewhere in that period is
when that one was made. I'm sorry,

1527
01:52:04.840 --> 01:52:09.880
forty nine, the fifty seven.
So I've tried to determine it whether

1528
01:52:09.960 --> 01:52:17.000
or not that that's a few years
before the B the B forty seven that

1529
01:52:17.439 --> 01:52:23.920
went around there and around Mississippi River
Air Texas and Mississippi. The RB forty

1530
01:52:24.000 --> 01:52:27.920
seven, I don't know if it's
from that one. I mean, I've

1531
01:52:28.079 --> 01:52:31.560
done a lot of search and B
forty seven's in Project blue Book on the

1532
01:52:31.600 --> 01:52:34.880
Internet, and surprisingly there was a
bunch of them, and I can't find

1533
01:52:34.960 --> 01:52:39.239
one in particular that said there was
pictures like that. Now, the RB

1534
01:52:39.439 --> 01:52:43.720
forty seven said there supposedly was pictures, but nobody knows where they are.

1535
01:52:45.239 --> 01:52:47.800
I have I've never been able to
confirm if that's what that is. But

1536
01:52:47.880 --> 01:52:50.720
I know it's a pretty picture.
I mean, you can it almost looks

1537
01:52:50.760 --> 01:52:54.600
fake, and I can't tell if
that's I mean, that's probably a glare,

1538
01:52:54.640 --> 01:52:57.600
but I can't tell what that is, and that I've stared at that

1539
01:52:57.680 --> 01:53:00.760
thing for hours trying to figure it
out. It's what's following it, if

1540
01:53:00.760 --> 01:53:03.800
it's an actual object or it looks
like it, and I'm wondering if that

1541
01:53:03.840 --> 01:53:10.479
can be enhanced somehow. But that's
just as far as that slide go.

1542
01:53:10.720 --> 01:53:13.640
That actual picture. I projected it
on the wall and my you know,

1543
01:53:13.760 --> 01:53:15.800
my house on my screen and just
snapped a picture of it. Even that's

1544
01:53:16.000 --> 01:53:20.359
fairly good quality if I took it
somewhere and had it actually transferred. I've

1545
01:53:20.399 --> 01:53:24.840
kind of been hesitant about taking this
stuff and leaving it places. Sure,

1546
01:53:25.960 --> 01:53:29.199
I mean, I well, it
killed me to do that to the film,

1547
01:53:29.239 --> 01:53:31.239
but I had no choice. Ray
will make you even more scared if

1548
01:53:31.279 --> 01:53:34.399
you talk to him about it.
Oh yeah, yeah, he told me

1549
01:53:34.640 --> 01:53:38.640
had stuff come up missing from his
house and everything, soh yeah, yeah,

1550
01:53:38.640 --> 01:53:42.760
he's had a bunch of stuff like
that happening. We have We have

1551
01:53:42.960 --> 01:53:46.800
about about three minutes or so left. Actually, we only have a couple

1552
01:53:46.840 --> 01:53:54.000
of minutes left. So let's talk
quickly about First of all, we already

1553
01:53:54.000 --> 01:53:59.079
talked about what your future plans possibly
are. Yeah, and so if we

1554
01:53:59.399 --> 01:54:03.239
uh no where someone can find all
these and let's just say that someone has

1555
01:54:03.439 --> 01:54:08.359
enough of an interest that they actually
want to view these in hand, is

1556
01:54:08.399 --> 01:54:13.279
that something you'd actually make possible?
Yeah? Yeah, yeah, I mean

1557
01:54:14.520 --> 01:54:16.119
if they wanted to come to where
I'm at. Yeah, no, I

1558
01:54:16.159 --> 01:54:19.560
take them around Ohio here, and
I may end up taking them farther.

1559
01:54:20.359 --> 01:54:25.039
But we're having a one place I
can tell you in particular that it going

1560
01:54:25.079 --> 01:54:28.279
to be is in June sixth,
move on of Ohio. We're having our

1561
01:54:28.359 --> 01:54:32.039
conference. It's up northern Ohio and
Ashland, a little south of Columbus or

1562
01:54:32.359 --> 01:54:35.520
Cleveland. I'm going to have them
there all day. I'm not doing any

1563
01:54:35.560 --> 01:54:40.479
presentations or anything. I took the
first box I had last year, and

1564
01:54:40.560 --> 01:54:44.039
people loved coming up and looking at
it. Well, this one, I'm

1565
01:54:44.039 --> 01:54:45.800
going to have a couple of tables
and set everything out so people can,

1566
01:54:46.119 --> 01:54:50.479
you know, browse through them during
the conference conferences six or seven hours long,

1567
01:54:51.039 --> 01:54:55.319
you know, in between speakers and
during lunch. Yeah. People,

1568
01:54:55.760 --> 01:54:58.960
anybody that wants to come to that
welcome to come and browse them. James

1569
01:54:59.000 --> 01:55:01.239
Fox is going to be there.
He's got the he's been working on that

1570
01:55:01.520 --> 01:55:06.399
movie seven oh one right in tend
hopefully to show them to him. Well

1571
01:55:06.479 --> 01:55:10.399
that's that'd be great. I'm sure
he'd be very that could actually be part

1572
01:55:10.439 --> 01:55:13.479
of that that film. So we
have a we have a little less in

1573
01:55:13.520 --> 01:55:15.520
a minute left, So can you
give out your website if you would,

1574
01:55:16.000 --> 01:55:20.880
Yes, Miami Valley UFO Society dot
com. Oh wow, that's a long

1575
01:55:20.960 --> 01:55:26.960
one, Miami Valley UFO Society dot
com. And that will be in our

1576
01:55:27.000 --> 01:55:30.560
show notes, okay, And I
say I just try to it's just a

1577
01:55:30.640 --> 01:55:34.239
link to news sources. It's mainly
for to try to get people around here,

1578
01:55:34.920 --> 01:55:39.640
you know, a local place.
Maybe they'll start giving reports, clicking

1579
01:55:39.680 --> 01:55:42.000
them our away, what's they'll go
to move move on if they come through

1580
01:55:42.079 --> 01:55:45.439
my site. But mainly it's just
try to get people around here talking about

1581
01:55:45.479 --> 01:55:47.279
the subject. So many people have
had relatives work there, right Pat,

1582
01:55:48.039 --> 01:55:50.560
I mean there's stories out there to
be found. He's got to find them,

1583
01:55:50.760 --> 01:55:54.720
that's right. Well, thanks so
much. I really appreciate it all

1584
01:55:54.800 --> 01:55:58.960
right, Prevent, it's been a
real pleasure, And good luck with with

1585
01:55:59.119 --> 01:56:04.079
these and be interested to see what
happens down the road. So that's it

1586
01:56:04.199 --> 01:56:09.319
for the show this evening. I
want to thank you for being our guest

1587
01:56:09.399 --> 01:56:13.439
tonight, and I also want to
thank people that helped. Actually it was

1588
01:56:14.960 --> 01:56:18.239
Alejandro Rojas did not help with the
news this week. It was Chip Reichenthal

1589
01:56:18.640 --> 01:56:23.640
helped me out there. Alejandro should
be back next week. He didn't tell

1590
01:56:23.680 --> 01:56:25.680
me if it was a two week
vacation though, so I don't know for

1591
01:56:25.800 --> 01:56:30.760
sure. Kerry Lloyd white House has
provided the music for us. Peggy Shunning.

1592
01:56:31.119 --> 01:56:33.800
I want to thank her for managing
the Facebook page. Remember you can

1593
01:56:33.920 --> 01:56:39.439
like us on Facebook for all the
latest UFO news, and you can check

1594
01:56:39.520 --> 01:56:43.720
us out live right here on the
Dark Matter Radio Network and every Wednesday at

1595
01:56:43.760 --> 01:56:47.399
eight pm to ten pm Eastern Standard
time. Next week we have Terry Ray.

1596
01:56:47.520 --> 01:56:51.880
He's the offer of the complete story
of the worldwide invasion of ORBS.

1597
01:56:53.479 --> 01:56:56.079
I've always I wanted to talk to
him about this, so that should be

1598
01:56:56.199 --> 01:57:00.520
great. So tune in next week. And this is Martin Willis signing off.