And it hits me, Oh my gosh, this is that triangle. You
know, there's explanation for everything that occurred in the Randalchampars incident that doesn't involve
aliens at all. It was completely silent. It comes right over our heads.
He's so cussic Fini solci really standing into Cleary. He turned over to
my father and held his hand, and he looked in his eyes and said,
We're not alone. Welcome to podcast UFO for our live show. We're
live every Wednesday at eight pm Eastern Standard Time on the Dark Matter Radio Network.
Please remember to visit the website podcastufo dot com for past episodes, blogs
and forums. During the show, feel free to participate live in our chat
room, and don't forget to like us on our very active Facebook page.
Hello everyone, This is Martin willis your host, and first of all,
I would like to apologize for last week. It was Murphy's Law kicking in
every which way. We had high wins and on Dark Matter Radio we had
a fried hard drive. It was a comedy of aras and so we don't
really don't want that to happen again this week and our one and also helping
me out with the news. Is Chip Reichenthal. That's right, I said,
helping me out with the news. And guess what A le Hondro Rojas
somehow forgot to tell me he was on vacation this week. So I'm going
to be doing the news and Chip's going to help me, and I refuse
to let Murphy and his laws affect the show this week. So Chip will
be on later actually through our one, and he's going to be talking about
hypnosis of abductees. He's going to be talking about his first or his UFO
sighting, and this is an interesting topic. We're going to bring up ets
versus ghosts, which will be proven first and it's funny. I'm going to
talk to him about someone that was in my office today talking about ghosts.
It was kind of interesting. So an hour two we have something really kind
of exciting. It's a first time speaker, Rob Mercer, and Rob is
in Ohio moofon and he also was He happened to be on Craigslist a while
back and he saw something that was interesting and he went and checked it out
and it was a Project blue Book files. So he found out that who
the person was, where they originated from, contacted him. The gentleman is
still alive, I believe in his eighties and he got all kinds of great
move I'm sorry, Project blue Book stuff that we're going to talk about.
It's pretty exciting. So it's kind of like breaking news. And that's an
hour two. So I want to thank everyone for their support. And if
you haven't subscribed yet and you want to hear the full show for only a
dollar or more a month, that's just twenty three cents a week. And
I bought a Starbucks a latte the other day and it was like five something
and I was thinking, Wow, someone can listen for five months for this
one coffee. Anyway, if you'd like to do the support, you can
go to our website podcastufo dot com and just click on the support link right
on the sidebar. And if you can't support us, thank you for listening.
Anyway. We appreciate every single one of you. Don't forget we have
t shirts on our website. We're practically giving them away. Matter of fact,
if you just give me an offer, I'll probably send you one as
long as postage is covered. Now next week we are going to do shout
outs for people that support us for five dollars or more a month. So
if you want me to use your full name, please do email me this
week if you hear the show, it's at Martinette podcastufo dot com and we
are ready to bring in Chip and to do the news. Chip. How
are you? I'm great, Martin, you know, I always enjoy being
with you and I should love the show here. And I have to find
a sexier name so I can keep up with you know, Alejandro as far
as doing the news goes, But great to be here. Thank you.
You can latinize your name somehow, we'll y'll have to work on that,
but then it would be cheap and that just doesn't cut it, you know.
Well, first of all, I want to say, as far as
the news goes, all the links are right on our show notes at podcastufo
dot com and they're all from they all originate at Openminds dot tv. And
we're going to start out Pennsylvania UFO described as star Trek Shimmery. Now,
this guy sounds like a real observer. Here. He was out walking his
dog and he had a satellite app on his phone and he was looking at
satellites, spotting them and all of a sudden out of the corner of his
eye, he sees a like a black triangle and then it was like a
flying v across the southwest to the northwest. And he gives all this really
detailed information about holding his thumb up in front of his eye and trying to
see how big the thing was. He guesses approximately how big, how fast
it was going. Anyway, that story is right right on our website,
the link to it. And what do you think, did you read that?
Chip? Yeah? I did, Martin, And you know, I
look, I think a lot about this, especially in Pennsylvania, Lancaster County,
and I'm mainly known as a paranormal guy, but I'm very tied into
the UFO community. They'll move on level five, which means that there's more
sidings in the Pennsylvania and around that area, Lancaster County area, just about
any other state in the country. You know, nine sidings alone in February.
So it says a lot. You know, it ties into something.
And admittedly, you know, I'm a little sentimental today at that plane crash
in the French obse. You know, you see world leaders hugging each other
and crying and that kind I can't help but be affected by that. But
there's something that ties into this story, and I'll be brief about it.
But again, in southern France, there was the guy who works with helicopters
and quadricopters that builds these star Trek like flying devices and one is triangular shaped.
It's got led lights on it. He's been very proud of it.
This guy has been creating stuff in the south of France for a long time
now, you know, kind of like some of the guys we brought in
from Germany back in the forties to you know, help us out with rocket
propulsion and things of that nature. And it looks very much similar to what
this guy described, So it could be something you know, explainable here,
but it also could be something else. Because in Pennsylvania they've got Bigfoot,
they've got this dog man, you know, lots of UFO, So I
think move on level five. So there could be something to it, Yeah,
you do. You're right. You hear all kinds of things about Pennsylvania
and Bigfoot is no stranger there for sure. So secondly, i'd like to
talk about the SETI just had an upgrade, and I think it's kind of
funny if anyone is supporting the show, and they went in to look on
our on get joy Ride. They saw that I posted a debate with us
Seth Shostack from SETI. I posted it last week. It's still up there.
If anyone is supporting the show, they can listen and it's a UFO
debate. And I talked to him about sort of about this. Now they
have this new on the radio telescope, so doing an infrared thing. It's
an upgrade from just the radio waves. And that's one of the questions I
asked him. I said, isn't that kind of primitive, you know,
if you're thinking civilizations are real advanced, way advanced of us, and you're
looking for them in radio waves. And he said, well, you know,
basically he said, and I thought he actually had a good point.
He said that, well, it's better than doing nothing. We're just exploring
with what we know. And so I have to agree. It was really
hard to agree with that point, but I do agree with that point.
And did you Frank Drake. God, he's like eighty four years old or
something, and I don't really agree that much with the Drake equation and all
that, but he is a pioneer of SETI. Yeah, yeah, are
you familiar with SETI at all? There, Chip, I am, And
you know, look, I gotta be honest here because I like that they're
thinking infrared. But this guy started with radio. And if radio waves are
moving at the speed of light, then we've only hit what like maybe sixty
light years. I mean, we're in the asteroid belt maybe, so it'll
take a while really before we could reach the civilization that hears about radio.
You know, but these guys are more astronomers than Frank Drake is. You
know, he's working with microwaves. They're working with infrared, and from I
don't know my experience, astronomers seem to be kind of non believers. You
know. They see what they see and they don't see any evidence a life
elsewhere, even though they're really looking for it. And look, there's a
lot of possibilities on the moons and Jupiter and Saturn where they're seeing possibilities of
water very similar to what we have, and there could be maybe microbial life,
maybe even oceanic life. You know, I maybe there was something this
week just discovered on Mars. I don't know if you read that. Oh
yeah, with the soil samples. They kind of this is where kind of
like this week, it's opposed to last week where they're really making lemonade out
of lemons. Something leaked into their samples. But it turns out that they
found two percent water, which means there once was water there and could even
be something underground. I mean, there's a lot of possibilities. It seems
like, you know, if they're looking at the theory of panspermia, where
we originated from somewhere else, like an asteroid or something of the sort,
it could have been Mars. Absolutely. Okay, we're ready to move on
to the last story, and it's Ministry of Defense helicopter chases four UFOs in
England. This family was outdoors enjoying a barbecue and all of a sudden they
heard helicopter and they looked and it was chasing UFOs through the sky. Now,
the woman told her husband told her son, I guess to run and
get the camera. So he came back and it was just a regular camera,
nothing special, didn't have a zoom or anything. They snapped a couple
of photos. So if you look at we have a picture right on our
show notes or on our homepage on PODCASTUFO dot com. And it looks just
like what you would think of as Amari Island sighting, which was actually before
Roswell. Back in nineteen forty seven, they said they had these donut shaped
UFOs that were flying over and one of them started having trouble and started spilling
like this lava stuff off of it and landed on the boat, killed the
dog, injured the boy, all that stuff. Anyway, if you look
at this picture, it's definitely one of those donut shaped UFOs and they're back.
Did you look at it? I did, and look It's funny because
if you look around the world, there are many countries that take UFOs sightings
and extraterrestrials much more seriously than we do, and they're really out over it
much more than the United States and England. I mean, those are the
two places that seems to be the most reserved as far as admitting anything.
It's a miracle. We got Project blue Book, you know, which something
we'll talk about in the Ghosts Versus UFOs things later on the hour. I
take it very seriously, this one, especially because things seem to come back
to areas like England and Ireland, you know, and maybe it's something from
ancient times, but it just seems like things tend to show up there that
haven't shown up there in a long time. And you know, the English,
they don't really speak out much about this sort of thing, so there
has to be something to this one. I think. I remember, I'm
trying to remember a gentleman's name. His name was Simon Something. I interviewed
him in England. He was in an area of England that with really bad
weather, and I said, have you ever had a sight? And he
goes, no, I never even see the sky. That's hilarious. So
hey, well you know that's it for the news this week, and take
that, Alejandro Rojas, we did it. So hey, thanks Chip for
helping me out there. And let's get started with you because a number of
my listeners have not a clue who you are, So why don't you go
ahead and give you a background? Yeah. Absolutely, I'm actually more known
for a paranormal guy, but I'm very tied into the ufology and extraterrestrials and
I have a lot of friends who have been either what they call experiencers,
which means they had either benign or positive experiences was what they considered to be
extraterrestrial beings and abductees. And I'm also certified as a hypnotherapist. I'm familiar
with some of the hypnosis techniques that they use to talk to abductees. But
I'm probably that best known as a radio host, including a time here a
very honor time on dark Matter on a show called Keeping the Spirits Alive.
I was co host with my buddy John Tobin. I had opening editorials called
Chipisms. I have a book published that is more of a paranormal thing.
It's called Even the Dead Won't tell You the Truth. It's kind of a
murder mystery that is from the point of view of somebody who talks to dead
people, and you got some first person perspective there. But I've also written
a couple of science fiction books, and so I've done a lot of research
on extraterrestrials and uithology and some of the deeper stuff that you know, most
people don't get to see. But yeah, I'm currently hosting a show on
the A and B Radio network called Beyond the Norm where we talk about all
aspects of paranormal and metaphysical and neoithology. Wow great. Wow, Well,
it's great to have you on. I've always enjoyed talking to you. Oh
likewise, yeah, it's an honor, thank you, And let we were
going to talk this week. I'm trying to remember what the subjects were.
One of them was you had a sighting, so let's talk about that.
Yeah. I did a couple of them, actually, and the one I
didn't mention to you maybe more profound than the first one. But the first
one when I was ten years old. I was with my best friend growing
up and we were having an argument, which was very rare because we got
along really well, and all of a sudden, we saw this thing up
in the sky and it was very close to us. When I'm kind of
old, so when I was ten, there's a show called Lost in Space
on TV, and they had a spaceship that looked at Yeah. Oh yeah,
oh good, Hey Billy, Mummy and I talk on Facebook now and
then no kidding, Oh, everybody thought I looked like him. It was
like a kind of a twin of his. So that's a wow, small
world. Please send him my love next time you talk to him. I
invite him on this show. So he decided to ignore me. Oh,
don't you hate it when that happened? I know, right, But anyway,
I mean, this thing was it was almost exactly like the lost in
spaceship. It was. It was you know, round and kind of they
I mean, it was close up to us and there were multi colored lights
about a third of the circumference of this disc, and it hovered over us
for maybe eleven seconds and then jolted like quickly to the left and then quickly
to like the southwest, and then darted off and we just well, needless
to say, it stopped our argument. But a couple of years later,
we saw one and it was a cloud in the sky, and it was
the kind of day where the clouds were moving along, but this one cloud
stayed still and even other clouds were penetrating through it. And even though we
were rather young at the time, still it was I think we were thirteen,
you know. It was over a buddy's house in the same neighborhood,
and it really for about three hours just hovered there. Wow. And then
like we all I don't know, got distracted and we turned and the thing
was gone. And I'm thinking, you know, if you talk abduction cases
or things like that, where other neighbors don't see this thing a lot of
times, and you know, maybe if they're hovering in some sort of cloud
type of thing, you know, then maybe they could get away with a
lot of stuff that way. How about that? Well, I want to
remind everyone who's listening live, you can jump over to podcastufo dot com.
Right on the right hand side. There's a chat room. You can jump
in there and you can ask our guests question. It's really easy sign up.
So, Chip, So, how did that? Did you talk about
it with your friends a lot after that happened? Yeah, we did,
you know, And look it's at a time where, I mean, you
just didn't talk about that stuff. So it was I mean the first sighting
was my best buddy and I Yeah, we talked about that one a lot.
We thought it was cool, you know, because it tied into Lost
in Space, and it was like our favorite show at the time, you
know, I mean, that was a big, huge show in its day.
You know. It's like everybody at school talked about it, you know,
the next day. It was that sort of thing. But we didn't
really talk about it with other people that much. We mentioned it to our
parents, and our parents each encouraged us to kind of keep it quiet because
that's the type of thing that might give you a freak label or get you
ostracized, just like a paranormal experience. You know, in that day and
age, you just didn't mention it. So we kind of kept mom on
it. But for me, when other people talk about sightings, you know,
there's still even in this day and age where everything seems out there on
the internet and even the news has to be a little TMI now, you
know, it still comes with some risk when you talk about sightings or abductions
or experiences or anything of that nature. So I look, I tend to
take it at face value if somebody comes out and says something, you know,
because I'm dealing with people that go to haunted houses and see apparitions for
a living, you know, and there's a lot of similarities in some of
the I kind of pay attention to some of the quantum physics because there's some
potential explanations. I don't think we're quite there yet, but maybe in fifty
years or so, you know, things will get clearer. And the physics
that we're learning at CERN in Geneva and the way particles go about and maybe
wroomholes and multiple universes and stuff like that. You know, everything will make
a lot more sense. But yeah, I'm a believer, but I'll tell
you what. It makes no some of quantum physics, quantum mechanics and you
make absolutely no sense. Well that's you know what kills me about It is
look, and especially as either a ghost or a UFO or ET guy,
you look at electricity. Nobody really knows how it works. They just know
that it works. It's something that's an energy. They can't see, microwaves,
radio signals, you know, in for red lights. These are all
things that we can't see, but we're perfectly acceptable of, especially science.
And it just seems that, you know, science right now thinks it's got
its bearings, you know. I mean in the fifteen hundreds, they thought
they knew everything when the world was flat, right, you know. So,
I mean it just seems in each day and age, we think that
the physics that we have or the science that we have is the end all
know all, you know, And these guys are talking about spokey action at
a distance, but they won't they won't entertain ghosts. That kills me a
little bit. I actually am starting to believe that it's possible that apparitions or
ghosts could actually be living people in a time work because our physics is starting
to go there. I like, now they're talking about this multiverse theory.
If our universe is infinite, then just by definition, there has to be
an infinite amount of universes parallel to ours, and these travelers could possibly come
from completely different universes through wormholes. And what they say about these multiverses.
You know, each potential universe has its own space and time, so a
universe parallel to ours could be us ten years ago, you know, or
one hundred years ago. And maybe sometimes those things meld and we see people
from the eighteen nineties, you know, or the nineteen sixties telling us to
get out of their house. I think some of these extraterrestrial sightings could also
be that. I mean, some of that stuff makes sense because of the
black holes. I look, I'm an Einstein guy. I like what he
said and what he did, and some of this wroomhole thing, I mean,
opening stargates is a very likely possible thing. But the people that report
the extraterrestrial sightings, and I especially pay attention to experiencers, those who have
had either benign or positive sightings. Because I'm a good guy and I like
positive things, so I pay attention to them. But also with abductees,
and every case seems similar in that they're communicating with us telepathically. And look,
I work with a lot of psychics. Psychics use this thing in their
brain called the pineal gland. It's like the third eye, you know,
in meditation and things like that. It opens them up. And there's some
conspiracy theories, interestingly enough, that seem to kind of kill that theory,
you know, But I just I like to think that if we can better
use our pineal glands. It says that there's fluoride in the water. These
conspiracy theories, by the way, sorry I drifted there from and TV,
early television, is all designed to kill our peneal glands. So we're more
determined to follow others and not be individuals but be part of a group,
you know. So it's kind of interesting to note that some of these extraterrestrials,
especially the most positive ones, are these light beams. They don't even
need their own bodies to travel. They can do it with their minds and
use their minds to communicate, and these grays that the abductees talk about,
they function like a group of insects almost. You know, there seems to
be a queen bee, and there's drones, and there's workers. They're not
emotional, they're doing their job. It's like the way we would treat monkeys
in a science lab. It's kind of the same thing. And you know,
look, if we're going to grow to be as advanced as these extraterrestrials
seemingly, then we would have to maybe one hundred, two hundred, three
hundred years from now, be even more superior. And they're saying that our
heads will get bigger and our eyes could get bigger. These could be us
from the future, you know, recreating their own great great great great great
great grandchildren. I mean, we don't know that. Yeah, I've actually
I think I've actually said that before, only only because I was listening to
a scientists talk about you know, the difference in a billion years from now
is like a difference from billion years in the past, that we will be
unrecognizable, you know, I mean if if the evolution, if evolution,
you know, moves forward, it's just natural science that we will be completely
what we're not if they actually survive that is well, yeah, and it
doesn't look likely. And and look, I saw the show the other night
about the end of days, and yeah, you look from ancient times.
You know, you've got Hope, the Indians and all these the Egyptians and
uh, you know, all these ancient societies that all had kind of their
end of day's thing. And it's very similar to you know, the Bible,
then the New Testament and the Koran each have their own version, but
in each version they're the good guys who are alive at the end and for
everybody to come together as a society, that's the any cri So that can't
happen because whoever makes that happen is the ultimate evil. So it's really set
up for us not to survive as a society. And in order to do
that once we genetically create and boy, I hate to say that, because
Martin, I mean, we could be the last real human beings in existence
for all we know. We don't know if they've really cloned us yet,
are what they're doing with that technology which they do have, And look,
it's banned in this country but not around the world, So they could already
be a better, stronger, smarter us that they're working on. And once
they do that, the best way to survive as a new society in a
superior society is to function like insects, like bees, like a it's or
they function as one brain, you know. And there's no good or evil
in any of these encounters. And I don't know, you probably have heard
differently, but in all the people that I've talked to, both with abductee
and experience er type of you know, encounters, they seem to think that
there is no good and evil in any of these beings. You know,
they're either here to help us or here to hurt us. But it's not
like personal or there's no supreme being. And if there is, it's a
queen bee type of thing, you know. But there's no good in evil
in the in the extraterrestrial community, seemingly just like there's no good and evil
in the animal kingdom. There's no good and evil in the universe with planets
and stars, you know. So what do you think about the singularity fairy?
Are you familiar with that? You remind me, please, Well,
it's basically where man in machine kind of emerge. Oh, man, No,
I hope that doesn't happen. That can't go well. It just simply
can't go well. And look that they just I saw today they have a
Mercedes that drives itself. Oh yeah, yeah, well they've had an Audi
and BMW drive themselves. Actually they had a car go with a driver in
it from coast to coast. I think I had something to do with something
Google was doing and completely untouched, you know, by human hands, just
it went on its own. Really. Oh yeah, there was a driver
inside just in case, just in case. That scares the heck out of
me. And I saw a cartoon of all things called Wall E and it
was a futuristic type thing where robots cleaned up our garbage and we couldn't even
walk because we're in these flying machines with computers just you know, glued to
our computers and our phones because we didn't have to. There was nothing for
us to do. Everything's automated, so there's no need for us to work.
And we just became this kind of narcissistic waste of a pleasure seeking society.
And look, I'm a pleasure seeker, so I don't want to give
that a bad rep You know, but that scared the daylights out of me,
because that's closer to truth than any movie that I've seen about the future,
you know, and when a cartoon kind of outdes a good science fiction,
that's some scary stuff, you know. I like what Stephen Hawking thinks,
you know, with either singularity or trying to reach out to other societies.
I have a little difficulty with that one because I think there are some
good ones out there. Just by probability alone, there has to be some,
you know. One of the things he says that that I never really
liked. It's like only kooks and nuts, you know, cufos. You
know, that part's not so good. But yeah, I like that though.
I'll happily be a kook and nut in that case. You know,
you got to wear it with some pride, I think, because look,
you have to think outside of the box. Yeah, well, yeah,
that's for sure. Well let's talk a little bit about your talking about abductees,
because I actually have a friend that she might even be listening tonight.
She listens to every show and she is studying right now. She had a
major citing or a couple of them when she was young and we were actually
born on the very same day, on the very same hour. Wow,
very same city, Boston. That's cool, and you both in the very
same line of work. Kind of yeah, we just kind of She found
me on Facebook and you know, listened to the show and saw my birthdate,
and then we started talking. It was like, where were you born
Boston? Where were you born in Boston? What time were you born?
Nine? Nine thirty? I was born at nine Bizarre. But anyway,
she is right now studying to be a hypnotherapist and wants to get involved with
with the abductees. Now I want to I want to talk to you first
of all, going back to your childhood. I just want to know where
you grew up. Oh, I grew up in New Albany, New York.
It's a suburb of Albany. It's the capital of the Empire State.
It's kind of midway between New York City and Montreal, a kind of dead
center between them and very dull community really because we're the political capital, you
know, so politicians get in trouble and none of us can act that way
ever again, so kind of a double place. But yeah, but at
least we had a couple of UFO sightings. Someone wants to know on the
board, and it may even be the person I'm talking about here, it's
all nice. She wants to know how many let's see, how many hypnotherapy
sessions do you do with a client. Well, it really depends because there
are different focuses. You know, My main focuses were past life regression,
and some of that is kind of similar to the techniques they use when they
talk to abductees. Look and look, there's weight loss and smoking cessation and
pain management or feeling better about your job performance or confidence and things of that
nature. But when you're talking to an abductee, and I want to kind
of keep it at least for the listener's sake and for your friend's sake,
which I think is so cool, by the way. Look, I've seen
it on documentaries, you know, there's these guys that the experience was so
traumatic that they blocked it out and that kind of hysterical associative. It's a
neurotic reaction. Actually, it's in the DSM. It's a psychiatric manual as
a disorder. So it's very you have to be kind of tender in bringing
these things back in. But a lot of non believers watching will say,
well, it's a very suggestive process. So of course they're going to make
up a story because you tell them to make a story up. And here's
the thing, especially for your friend that's listening, you really have to watch
your language so you don't have them create a memory. You have to keep
the language very plain as you bring them under. And look, hypnosis is
not this spooky thing. I mean, if you drive from Boston to New
York City Martin and you know, three hours go by, and you go,
wow, that was quick. It was like I wasn't even thinking then
all of a sudden, I'm here. Well, you've been in a hypnotic
state. Most of the things that we do we're doing with our subconscious mind.
Tying our shoes, using silverware, when we eat. These are all
things that we learned at a young age and now they're kind of we do
it automatically. So that's a subconscious process. Really, our subconscious mind is
in charge ninety five percent of the time, and it's this supercomputer basically that
keeps track of all of our senses. Everything we've ever seen, smell,
felt, tasted, or touched is in this supercomputer. But this per computer
has the emotional inability of maybe a two year old child, and it's being
safeguarded by this judgment belief. You know, things that you really groove up
taught, you know, to believe or not to believe. You know,
we might have religion that tells us we can't think about certain things because that's
evil and you can't get involved in them. We have friends and neighbors to
say the same thing. So you know, really your own experience, anything
that you experience, comes from all this stuff, and all that stuff is
blocking the supercomputer, even though it's used ninety five percent of the time.
So you have to use some very ginger and special ways to get through that
cloud of judgment and belief and relax your patient into kind of a very relaxed
state. And there are some people who live, well, you'll never hypnotize
me because I'm always thinking. So you have them do a mathematical problem in
their head while you're feeding them this calm information. It's all about relaxation,
I mean, really, that's it. You get them to relax and you
can focus on reprogramming that supercomputer so you'll allow it to not want to have
a cigarette or not want to eat so much or to go back to a
previous life. And the thing is, and I'll tell you, I thought
that was the biggest bunk in the world, past life aggression hypnosis. I
thought it was the dumbest thing I ever heard back when I was in college,
you know. But over the years and as I learned what it's really
about, it's actually kind of a cathartic process, you know, because you
can answer questions that have been puzzling you all your life, and so it
kind of fills holes, you know. And I don't want to get into
it too much, but all I can say is, once I've learned the
process, it doesn't matter if they've actually had this form of life. Personally,
I do believe in it. From what I've worked with with spirit mediums
and you know, psychics and even paranormal investigators. You know, there is
something to that, and it is very possible. And that kind of goes
into the ghost versus UFO thing we'll talk about in a little while. But
here, when you see somebody in a documentary getting somebody who's been an abductee
who's blocked it out traumatically, it's a very ginger thing, you know,
in the hypnosis community, especially in hypnotherapy, it's very dangerous to work with
people who have been diagnosed as bipolar or psychotic. Nothing against my bipolar and
psychotic friends, you know, Hey, everybody's got some good sides to them.
You know, that's my thing. But a lot of people see this
and say, well, you know it's there. It's a suggestive thing,
and of course they're creating it. But no, because these these hypnotherapists that
have worked on these abductees to get these traumatic things out, it's a very
specialized and ginger process. And the people that are studying hypnotherapy have to learn
a lot of psychology and even psychiatry, you know, and some of some
of even the basic things, so you know where the boundaries are. And
there's even you can even use a subliminal thing. Uh, you know if
if you say you are going deeper, you can hide it and sentences.
You know, you are thinking about a coffee cup and you are looking at
that coffee cup, and as you think about that, you go deeper.
So those four accentuated words you are going deeper are kind of supplanted in your
method. There's I mean, there's so much to this that I really have
to kind of defend the process. And I actually think not only is it
actually happening, and these people are really they're not making this stuff up because
they're told to. We have to watch that language very carefully. We have
to make sure that we keep them from suggestibility but allow them to feel relaxed
about some of the things that have been haunting them, kind of like the
past life regression hypnosis. It's a very cathartic type of thing. And even
though you see the guys in some of these documented that they're crying and all
they you know, they're they're meeting kids with grays and you know, and
they're remembering being stabbed and hurt and you know, all these things while with
these non emotive beings, you know, working on their reproductive system for you
without their permission and stealing them from their homes. I mean, you know,
look, I would love to meet an extraterrestrial someday. I think it
would be an honor, But I don't think i'd like to be prodded,
you know, like some of these people, or or you know, just
abducted without permission. So if you assume that it's true and it has happened
to these people. And again we're talking about if they come out you know,
to anybody, friends, neighbors, to you know, who are they
going to tell cops, you know, their pastors or priests or whatever.
You know. I mean, they're going to take some plaque and there their
authority in society is going to be clouded by that. So it's kind of
a thing where you can't win, you know, for losing Ki. A
couple of things. First of all, thanks for all that explanation. And
I have to say, you know, I'm not afraid to say this that
I've never said it on the show or anything, but you know, I
did go to therapy. I did not have the best of childhood. So
I went to therapy for a good a good while. And I know that
I was led astray by that therapist. You know. Oh I'm so sorry.
Well I was so big on psychology, but I'm not big on the
practice. I think, no, seriously, and I'm not afraid to say
it. Look, I worked in a nonprofit teaching computer skills and vocational skills
to schizophrenics, you know, and there are such a stigma against schizophrenics.
Again, they can't win for losing and in the most primitive tribal societies,
if somebody has a psychotic thing, you know, a psychotic break, the
entire community comes together and it's none of the behaviors are addressed or blamed on
the persons. It's an evil spirit. So the entire community comes together with
a medicine man or shaman and very nurturing factor, you know, the support
and nurturing is there, and they can eliminate this behavior and drive that evil
spirit out in a matter of weeks or days. So they've basically cured a
psychotic illness in less than a month. Here in this society with the way
we treat it, where if you think there's something wrong with you, you
have to go to somebody smarter than you to say, oh, yeah,
you're screwed up. How are you going to come out of that? Our
psychotic disorders have on average cure ratio of twenty seven years. Brother, because
the way the therapy works or doesn't work well. I was saying that people,
I just thought i'd chime in, you know, because you're a long
winded guy, and you know, no, that's good because whenever I need
you back again and I need to fill some time. Oh yeah, I'm
just using you man, But no, just say Chip, how you doing?
And you've got three hours, you know. But no, I wanted
I didn't want to leave me, you know, hanging when I just said
that remark. I also wanted to say that I ended up going to someone
that corrected all the time I lost and everything. So it ended up being
a really good thing. But I didn't recognize what I was going to get
at. And my point is I wasn't recognizing that this was happening, that
I was being led down a wrong path, and I started believing things that
never really happened to me and all that, and belie the truth. The
truth is tough. Nobody wants to hear the truth. Yeah. But but
but the bottom line is, I wonder that must happen if someone is not
really on the on the mark with hypnotherapy. And let me just ask you
this. I think that it's very possible that some people that uh use hypnotherapy
on abductees possibly do lead them. I'm not saying that. I'm not saying
that nearly all them or something, but I'm saying that some of them,
I'm sure do because it's just kind of human nature. If you're not,
yeah, I know, but I'm saying for the sake of the documentaries that
I've seen. Look, there's some good documentaries out there now, I mean
really good, pretty much from two thousand and eight up. They've been next
level and you watch some of them and you go, oh my god,
you know, what kind of world do I live in? I mean,
I absolutely believe. I think one hundred percent of the people in this country
believe that their government has lied to them one way or another. Even though
the statistics say about seventy percent, I think it's one hundred percent, you
know, So you just really never know. But in a situation like that,
admittedly, look it's a crapshoot, you know, but I think that
we're all born with instinct, even if we come in to where we are
now a little broken. You know. Look, everybody's broken in one way
or another. Everybody's been traumatized or hurt or feels inferior. And the reality
is that we all want to be respected, you know. Heard, I'm
believed, you know, and this is it's just not set up for that
to happen, right, But I think that we all, if we really
think about it, do have this thing called the sixth sense. It's really
a gut feeling you kind of know when you're walking into trouble before it happens.
I think anybody listening could could could agree with that. I just go,
you know, yeah, I have to cut in here because we have
we have like twenty minutes left and no right, we have like something really
important to talk about. Yes we do, so I'm sorry, I just
want to change that course a little bit. You kind of have to with
me. But that's okay. Well, no, that was all. That
was all very fascinating. I'm not really sure what I think about past lives,
and I know, last time I said that on the show, I
got some email. I actually got an email from a scientist that supports a
show and saying, you know that he actually believed in it, and I
thought that, wow, amazing. Wow. So but I'm not really sure.
I'm on the fence about that. But also the person I was talking
about earlier that's going through hypnotherapy is doing some work on that as well,
so I'm going to be talking to her about that. Yeah, good for
her. I think it's cool that she listens to the podcast. I think
it's cool that you were born at the same time in the same area.
I mean, you know how many of us can find somebody like that,
especially with such similar interests. It's almost like a twin connection of sorts.
Yeah, there's a message up on the message board. Then, I just
they just want to clarify this before we move on to the next subject.
I'm sorry getting a little pushy here, but I don't want to run out
of time. Do you think that all mental illness is caused by evil spirits?
Absolutely not, No, okay, absolutely want to clarify that. No,
I'm just saying that in primitive society, what the societies that we think
of as primitive, you know, they can actually cure a psychotic illness in
a series of months, where here it takes you know, decades. Uh.
And and it's because they don't treat the behavior of the person is wrong.
They don't treat the person as broken. They think that there is something
beside the person that causes that, and the belief system helps that unconscious mind
subconscious mind say you know what, they're right, I'm wrong, and the
behavior stops. I just think it's kind of miraculous and it should be a
lesson to the way we treat our mentally. Ill. That's all I have
to say about it, right, Okay, so let's move on, and
yeah, the baby this is a pretty exciting topic because yeah, and I'll
just paraphrase what we had said before, and that is which is going to
get the proof first, UFOs or ghosts? And and I don't know how
you came up with that topic, but I want to hear what you have
to say about it. Well, I've been doing articles for a magazine called
Supernatural Magazine, and it's going to be my next article. So I've been
working on it. And look, I'm primarily a ghost guy, but I
pay a lot of attention to the UFO community because as a responsible radio host,
you know, you have to get into these things. Yeah, there's
an astronomy guy, and now I know everything about astronomy. You know.
Look, jack of all trades, master of most of them, because I
just have the time and effort to do that sort of thing. And look,
you go to paranormal conventions, you go to UFO conventions, and it's
always kind of on the table, you know, which you think is going
to get proven first, ghost of UFOs and the ghost people will say,
oh, ghosts, you know, because we're in there trying to look for
them, and we know what we're doing and we'll figure it out, which
I, even though I'm with them, don't believe and the ufologists and I
actually believe that the answer is pretty clear. I think it's easy, and
I do think it's UFOs and look, but you have to think of the
ramifications of each and I'll speak to ghosts first. We do have a couple
of minutes, you know, to work on that. There are a lot
of different things that ghost could be, and there's a lot of different ghostly
type of things. And look, I've worked with spirit mediums. I was
actually at tuned as one for about seven years. That's a story for another
show. No, no, no, I just want to know what as
a tune to one means. Oh, I spoke to dead people for a
while. I asked them some very detailed questions and look, you know,
it is what it is. I I lost a lot of friends, so
I let it go. And it's kind of ironic because you know, seven
years later, No, I'm a radio guy representing spirit mediums and ghost hunters,
you know, so, and I can't get it back. I just
can't you know, And it's kind of it's a sad thing, but I
asked very detailed questions when I did have that ability, and look, you
know, you can believe it or not, but you know, these are
things that I experienced. And look, ghosts is a different kind of energy,
and I think I don't don't like the practice. I think they're doing
a kind of wrong because for somebody to be in a house and maybe at
a different time or a secondary dimension or a ghost and have trespassers come in
on your property, you know that you built with your blood, sweat and
tears, and call you evil or think that you're going to push them down
a flight of stairs, Well what would you do? I'd push them down
the flight is there? You know, as people are coming into my house
with all this equipment that I had never seen before. They're like aliens.
You know, I'd want to get them out of there if I was from
eighteen ninety or nineteen fifty. So you think of them with respect. You
talk to them in the language and the culture of the time period where you
think they originally. You do research on the property, think who could be
there, and try to communicate with them. That's communicating with an interdimensional being.
It's very similar to extraterrestrial I don't really see that much difference between the
two because if you can communicate successfully and a respectful and nurturing manner, you
know that's the dream. And look, I don't want to prove ghosts,
but I will say this, in order to prove the existence of ghosts,
you kind of have to tell every religious community that they're wrong, because it
basically says that it doesn't matter what you do, how you behave in life,
you will still go on, and you will be with like minded people
wherever you go, and you will be taught and you will have multiple lifetimes
to learn all the lessons in life. Look the way we look at time,
you know, the past is behind us, the future is not yet
here. So everything's moments, and we're so time conscious that the moments are
urgent. We have to know the emotional things now. Well, you know,
we have to have answers now. So if we're trying to talk with
people who might have died, then we think of them in our living state
with all this urgency, and if they're dead, they don't their hearts aren't
beating anymore. And things are really relaxed with them, so the grudges don't
count anymore. All they really want is people they're connected with, and they
want to watch over them. It's kind of a guardian angel thing. They
don't have supernatural abilities and they're not automatically psychic, just because they're dead and
they really haven't changed all that much from when they were alive. So if
they're a little grumpy when they're alive, they'll be a little grumpy when they're
dead. You know. If they're really nice when alive, will be really
nice when they're dead. If they were a serial killer went alive, then
well they can't kill you, they can't really harm you. But the whole
thing is, in order to prove the belief of ghosts, you have to
pretty much wipe away all the faith in the world, because all the faith
in the world is say no, our guy says, you know, he's
the only one that you know died and came back, and we can't do
that, and we can't talk to people who did that, and you know,
that's just wrong, that's just evil and it's not happening, and you
know, we have to live on our own lives and watch our sinful behaviors
and our good behaviors and yah yeah. On the other hand was UFOs.
Now, if you think of it, we've had a Canadian Minister of Defense
who spoke in parliament saying that he was personally aware that the major governments of
the world since the mid nineteen forties or so, really when we started working
with or thinking about working on nuclear armaments, you know, we had the
Roswell thing, and basically since then, they've been in lead with our major
governments. We're swapping technology and letting them play with our people because we don't
care about our people. We care about technology. We want anti gravity first,
you know, we want stealth first, these things. We want interstellar
travel, you know, we want that kind of technology. So they're kind
of joining us along. This guy says there's like twenty different species that he's
personally, you know, familiar with. Then you got a guy recently about
a month ago, two months ago, well maybe longer, on his deathbed,
he confessed he worked in Area fifty one. He was this aeronautical engineer
at lockheedon Martin and other places, and said it was more like twenty seven
different species. Some he actually worked with that were like two hundred and fifty
years of age or older. And some are going to be good to us.
Some don't care about us. You know, they are who they are,
but we're in league with them. And to have these kinds of things
being told to us, and to see these stories on the internet daily about
you know, you look at the Mars thing and look, we talked about
the scientific aspects of that today, but you see, oh, there's a
statue there, and there's a coffin there, and you know, here's evidence
that there were a species there. And you know, most of these are
either photographic anomalies or somebody's imagination. You know, we look at stuff,
we make patterns on them. That's what our brains do. But if you're
going to prepare the people for disclosure, that's the way you do do it.
So it may be in full swing already, and by the time they
come out with it, say ten years, even from now, most of
us will be used to the idea because we're in this inner web, you
know, and everybody knows everything. Now you can't hide anything from anybody,
which really kind of stinks. For the news, I can't watch the news
anymore. They have to go TMI on us. You know, they have
to show too much information because if they don't, people will find it on
the internet, and that's what they're competing with. So it makes the news
really hard to watch. Yeah, Chip, just to interrupt you a little
bit, sure, I'll probably have to do that when I close out.
Someone on the chatroom wants to know what type of coffee you drink. But
actually, red Bull okay, red Bull okay, I might have to take
that before my next show. But you know, a couple of things you
just said. I just wanted to just talk about quickly. And that is,
first of all, Paul Heller. Actually he and I communicate. I
lo I like that and uh, and he has many times slated for the
show and just has not made it, and hopefully he'll be on sooner or
later. Uh. It's a little bit controversial what what he has said.
This is just in upology in general, a little bit controversial. The things
that he said. I would let him speak anyway and say his peace.
And also about the deathbed confession, there's a there's controversy about that too.
There's uh, you know, as as you know, as I know,
nothing uh is is really one hundred percent clear on these type of things,
you know, I mean, uh, the interesting story, but there was
some Uh, there's a there's been a little backlash about both of those people,
especially Paul Hellier and uh, which you know, very prestigious. Uh,
he had a very prestigious position with the government, and he was very
very well connected. He's a nice gentleman. He's sharp. He's very sharp
for ninety years old. I believe that's what he is. But he has
he has definitely, without a doubt, made some far reaches and some assumptions.
Yeah, you know, he's an interesting guy. And look, he's
authoritative. But even for me in my mid fifties, he's a little old
school, you know, and I'm looky, Yeah, you have to look.
I'm I don't get along with you know, all the twenty year old
kids out there, but I have to get along with son. I have
a daughter that age. You know, I'm keeping my eye on her,
so I have to learn her community. In order to do that. We've
been the cool parents in the neighborhood, you know. But he also have
to pay attention. And they're very different than you know, people at my
age group is, and so there's some distance between what we will accept and
not accept, and even me as a bit liberal, you know, for
that level, but you know, somebody at Paul's age, and look,
I'm not saying anything against him because look, he's one of my heroes truly,
but I have to say, in this internet day and age, you
know, everything you have to take with grain of salt. And I have
read some articles that are disparaging with regard to the Canadian Prime minister or the
ad Minister of Defense rather and the guy's deathbed confession. But the news organizations
that brought these stories out are the things that I pay attention to. And
look, some have a lot of kind of wishy washy stuff where you know
they're really trying to sell you know, blogs or magazines or whatever. And
some have been authoritative figures and wouldn't really publish this stuff unless they felt good
about it. And you see the kind of or news organizations that carry those
stories, and that's why I tend to believe them, especially when some of
the documents I've seen with experiencers and abductees or people that have been in classified
government organizations that are coming out. Now, you know, there's a lot
of risk in doing that, so it really depends. You know, we're
just about out of time, Chippen. How can someone find you? Oh,
it's kind of hard to do, unfortunately. At the moment. I'm
on Facebook at Chip Reichenthal and Chip, you know, like Potato Chip or
computer Chip. It's Chip and Reichenthal is like the third Reich, which I
hate to say, R E I C H and then E N T H
A L. Actually, there's good information about me on the podcast page,
so they can they can find me or at least my book through the podcast
page. I'm on LinkedIn at Chip Reich and Thal Facebook, I'm on Twitter.
Well you can't. Victims of Retail. Actually, i'm my old band
name. I'm changing all of that in a couple of months. I'm starting
a website and it'll be easier to find me. But meantime that's probably the
best way. And you can email me if you want. Victims of Retail
at the dot com that's my band name. Victims is plural victims of retail.
We all are, you know, it's kind of my collective harmony type
of thing. I guess we are. Yeah, So this has been a
This has been a lot of fun and I had just one more thing.
Are you planning to write another book at any point? Oh, A couple
of books and a couple of the next one is actually a sequel to my
current book, but I'm adding some UFOs to it. Very interesting. The
first book was really about spirit medium and handling a murder mystery, and the
sequel has him having to chase a ghost who convinced this guy who was alleged
to be mentally let's say, deranged. It was his brother who suicided,
and the spirit of his brother told him to kill a police officer who is
the partner of the homicide investigator who is the main character in my first book.
Okay, you lost me at UFO. I know. By the way,
can you make that UFO in the book donut shape one like Maury Island?
For anything? For anything for you, brother, Yeah, it would
be an honor. And I'll also name you, you know in the acknowledgment
it says on the side of the ship Marty, Marty, I like that.
Yeah, Hey, well, hey Chip, thanks so much, and
we'll have you back. You're you're a good guy, a friend and uh
and I'd love to have you back on sometime. It's always a pleasure and
an honor brother. I love talking with you. Thank you so much.
We are going to be right back. This is just a little bit tricky
for us here because we usually don't switch guests in the middle, but I'm
going to try this. Hopefully it'll all work out. Hang in there,
please ya do a Rob Mercer, how are you? Oh, not doing
too bad? Thank you for for joining us in our two and uh,
this is your first time you've ever been on a show, am I right?
Yes, that's it. And let's uh, let's first of all,
before we get into why you're here? Uh, why don't you tell the
listening audience? And I'm actually seeing you on video here well, and you
can actually shut that off if you want to do. All you have to
do is over over with your mouse and you'll see a little camera and just
click it off and that way we'll have a much clearer signal. That's better
because I saw the picture of UFOs in your background there. Okay, So
why don't you, yeah, why don't you tell the listening audience who you
are? Okay, my name's Rob Mercer. I'm a move on field investigator
and stay section director here in the Southwestern part of Ohio. I've done it
for a few years. That's pretty much the extent of it. I also,
I've been following UFOs my whole life, reading about him, you know,
everything I could find on them, and what's kind of led me to
what I have to share on here. Now? What did you started in
a fascination with UFOs to begin with? I had an uncle when I was
younger that was really into it, and he got me going on it.
We just just all we used to do talk about and every time he came
over. Now, how did mom and dad feel about that? Oh?
No, they didn't seem care. They had their own siding when I was
young. They I personally myself and I've never had one that I couldn't figure
out yet. But they did when we were in bed one night. It's
back probably when back in the early eighties. But now they I mean I
didn't. I kind of kept it to myself, and you know I did
it in my own time. I had a big family. I always like
to hear about sightings. Do you mind? Do you have any details of
what your parents saw? We lived in an old farmhouse up in Champagne County,
Ohio, and they were in the middle of the night they saw a
light out in the backyard, and I just remember brief parts of it,
but they saw the light hovering over the house. And I don't have an
exact time as far as year to do any investigating myself. I would like
to, but it's something I need to work on as try to my mom
was no longer around, but work with my dad to try to find out
a little better details on that. Mm hmm. Yeah. You know a
lot of times i'se still. You know, you've heard you hear people say
something like, oh, you know they'll remember something wrong. Well, I'm
telling you, when it's such a traumatic situation, you pretty much, I
believe you pretty much remember quite a bit about the details. Well, they
weren't shook up about it. I remember him telling us about it the next
day. I was just so young that I didn't write down the details.
But they were sure that it wasn't of this earth. Uh huh. Wow,
that is a statement and a half. Now. So your uncle had
he had a sighting as well. He I remember he did. He was
driving home from work and he had seen some lights and thought they were following
him, and he was I was me and him were real good friends.
And I say he was came out to my house and was telling me about
it, and I remember we went out looking for it. And from then
on he always had a telescope, and you know, we was just always
kind of into the sci fi thing here as far as looking looking for things,
going to different events things like that. Uh huh. So now,
just for the listening audience, you can go on our website podcast to if
you scroll down into the show notes or on the homepage the week that this
show is running, you will see a link to Rob's website where he has
a number of these documents posted that we're going to be talking about, and
they are actually Project blue Book files. And first of all, Rob,
let's talk about this is a Craigslist fine to begin with the very start of
it, can you tell us what happened? Oh yeah, I live like
say, right with about twenty minutes from right Pat, and I've done service
work in the area over around there for years. So I was just one
night. Well, I check all the time on Craigslist for UFO collections because
being in a lot of people's houses over the years, I've seen them.
I know they have them. People tend to throw things out. You're rid
of things when somebody passes away. You know, I just to interrupt you
first quick second here, I'm more or less like in the antique you know,
fine arts business. I checked for antiques and fine art on Craigslist and
all that. I'm really into UFOs and I've never even once thought of doing
that. You may be one of the very few people that actually do that.
That's a good idea. Well that's what I thought. I mean,
I never thought i'd find anything like this. You know, I'm just looking
for people's other investigators. You know, you only investigate a few years,
you tend to get burnt out on it. Things like that, other people's
files. But yeah, I was very surprised that I came across this.
And on my website there, I've got an actual screenshot of the ad that
was on there that particular night. Yep, it's down a little bit,
you can see it. I guess i'd better tell you about that. I
created that website just the area. I'm a moof on field investigator and I'm
always part of our investigation process is you check the internet for correlating cases that
may have happened around the time of the one you're investigating. And I started
noticing that I live in Springfield. I mean, I was never getting cases
from this area yet I'd get on some where like the National UFO Reporting Center,
and they just have cases left and right, you know, from around
here. So I fegure I would create a local website for people in the
area that would go to maybe to get them to kind of report more for
us, you know, tell share their stories a little bit more. And
that's kind of the purpose of that website. It's that's why it's called We're
technically called the Miami Valley and that's what that's for. Just for some reason,
I was thinking they had something to do with Miami, Florida, and
I saw that, and I wonder what the connection was. It would be
surprised how many people from Florida are actually visit that website. To it,
I may have to make some changes to it, but it just I just,
you know, try to link to news. I'm trying to get people
to report, to report them so they'll be investigated when they see things.
There's I mean a lot I've been doing a lot of blue Book research and
there's been a lot of cases from around this area, so I'm just trying
to make sure I get some of them. But that night, it was
in September of twenty thirteen, we'd had to move on meeting over over in
Columbus, and I was home at night and it was kind of had it
on my mind, and I was on Craigslist and all I did was under
for sale type in UFO, which I had done one hundred times before,
and i'd seen that ad. I don't know if he'body seeing it on there,
but it's an ad that said the guy had files that had come from
it said from a captain in Project blue Book. So I texted him.
It was, you know, about midnight that night when I texted him and
told him to hang on to him. So I got off of work the
next day and I drove down and looked for it or down to see him.
They were a little south of Dayton, and sure enough, it's what
he said it was. It was a couple of black binders full of photos
and what I call case they're called case summaries, just like the card with
the basic description of the sighting on him and what the finding was. There
was a several boxes of slides there was three binders that have basically they go
from nineteen forty seven to nineteen sixty nine and list every case that there is.
You know that there was for blue Book. Now you'll find these online,
but everything's redacted as far as the witnesses names. Oh yeah, he's
nothing of this is it's all untouched. Wow. And there was you know,
some other documents and there a lot of files in there. So the
guy, I gave him what he wanted for it. Let's I got to
hear what it is. How much did you have to pay? I paid
one hundred dollars for that first box, but to me, that was worth
it. Just oh no, laughing history guy too. I'm laughing because there's
probably a lot of people listening to the show right now that would pay ten
times at and uh, you know I probably would be pretty close to that
there as well. So and by the way, I just want to say
on the area, because I know he's listening, is Chris Lambright. He's
the one who connected you and I together, who you have spoke with and
uh, you also has spoke with someone He's going to be on the show,
and I don't know, maybe two or three weeks Ray Stanford, Uh,
and we got he took me up with talking to him. How I
got hooked up with Chris. Yeah, Ray. I not knew much about
Ray before that point, but I had found some files in there, some
paperwork in there that were of interest to him with his story. Yeah,
and I've got I'll tell you guys about those. But with those files that
I had, I sat on them for about I had a couple of people
from mouf On over that weekend after I was excited to show them to people
that have been in the business a lot longer than me, just kind of
get their take on it. So I had three guys over from our move
on in Ohio and we spent about eight hours of my basement going through them,
and we were convinced when it was over that the guy gave I mean,
we knew the lieutenant that they belonged to gave briefings on the subject just
by documents that were in there. There were a lot of slides explaining statistics
and different policies. So I just kind of sat on them for about nine
months after that, researching him, trying to find out who he was,
if he was alive, not really knowing what to do with not get him
in trouble or anything or have him wanting them back from me. You know,
I'd even drive by his house where I put the story together where they
came from the garage that they were found in, and the whole timeline to
that, and knew about where he was living, and you know, I
drive by hoping to catch him outside just to kind of confirm it without calling
him and creeping him out. But after a while, I, you know,
finally he was you know, knowing he was former Air Force. I
have a friend here in Moufon it was former Air Force, and came to
a conclusion that I might have him give him a call for me and break
the ice, and he wanted to. So he gave him a call at
his house here in Farborne, and turned out him and his wife had divorced
several years ago when he'd moved out of state. Well, his wife was
nice, nice enough to give us his phone number where he lived now.
So my friend Pete Pete Harninger from Moufon, he had called him and talked
to him a few minutes and called me back and said, you know,
Lieutenant said to give him a call. He wants to hear about the stuff
he founded of his So I gave him a call, and he was a
little confused even a few minutes later when I called him, But once I
you know, explained what happened, he basically told me, Yeah, they'd
gotten a divorce and he'd forgot he left those behind, forgot they were up
in the garage. It was a two story garage with an addicin at the
kind of place that you'd store stuff for years and years and kind of forget
that you had. Now, how old was he when he was with a
Project blue Book Because mid to late twenties. Oh okay, and so that
was nineteen sixty nine, so when it shut down, I'd say he was
probably about twenty seven when it shut down. Twenty eight okay, so he
is he seventy something? Yes? Yeah, the seventies? Now? Yeah?
Is he? The number one thing I think of when I'm hearing all
this. I just can't help myself with would he be the type of person
that would actually want to talk about this? Well, he didn't like to
talk about the program. I mean, he likes to tell me, you
know, stuff that went on, gives me the basics, but he doesn't
have a good memory of a specifics on there. I mean basically, when
it shut down and he left, he that he quit even messing with UFOs.
He went in a fan, a sci fi fan, and he told
me he was going to prove they were real. But he was there for
a little over two years, and by the time it shut down, he
he was convinced otherwise, he told me, and he kind of put them
all way. And I've asked him questions about well, I mean, I
asked him the most common question you ask somebody is you know, what's what's
your opinion on Roswell? And it's honest to god, he said he'd never
heard of Roswell my goodness, which is I mean, it did go a
way till about you know, till in the seventies one, that's right,
came back to nine or something like that. Yeah, And I didn't sense
that he was lying, So I kind of tend to believe him there as
far as that goes. So, and I've asked him, you know,
what do you think about you know, astronauts and a lot of credible people
with reports, you know, I mean, that's hard to get around.
You know, you have no reason not to believe him, and he said
he didn't know anything about him, but he said everybody has an ulterior motive.
Huh, So, I mean he just I could not. I've I've
sent him a few books, you know, for my collection, just to
try to get him to read him and get back into it a little bit
and you not call him from time to time, but he's, uh,
I don't. I'm not getting any feedback from him for that. But he'll
talk about some of the cases, you know, from when he was there.
I can't really go back before he was there because he doesn't know a
whole lot about him. Yeah, uh, just what he had. He
still would be He probably does not want to talk about it at all,
like especially like on the show or something like that. But he probably talked
to one person, you know, a person if you called him. Yeah,
but I don't know that he would want to come on a show.
He still would if he did, He still would be very interesting no matter
what his opinion. Oh yeah, oh yeah. He's got a physicist background
and very smart guy. Very smart guy. But we uh, you know,
we talk a lot about politics and a little bit of everything. We
don't specifically talk about UFOs all the time. But after talking to him that
first time for an hour or so and you know, telling him what I
had, and he saw how interested I was and everything, he told me
that, you know, I've got a few more boxes of that stuff that
you know at my house where I stay in the summer. He said,
call me back in a month or so and i'll mel it to you.
I said, okay. So you know, he gave me his number and
I called him back a few months later and reminded him. He remembered,
and you know, he said, well, I got to sort through it.
It's got a lot of trash and junk and stuff in And I said,
I'll take anything that you know was Air Force and Blue Book related and
you know, pencils even doesn't matter. He said, okay, he said,
well I got you know is He was eventually promoted to captain at a
Nowke base out west he in a missile launch site. He said, well,
I got my you know, buttons and everything. He said, I
don't really have anybody give them to and he sent all that to me in
the in the boxes. It's basically I got three more boxes from him.
The files. They were good boxes full of books and I mean, there's
not every file. It's a good collection of files. A lot of them
are just single page. There's a lot of complete files in there. Now,
let me ask. It took me a while. I'll go ahead,
go ahead, Yeah, how how would someone in his position actually take these
out of the office, you know, I just I just can't see how
that would be possible unless they when they closed Project Blue Book in nineteen sixty
nine, they've just said, hey, you know, take whatever you want
to what's in your desk, we have the main files or something like that.
How could someone actually take those what he had? Well, he said
they spent a couple of weeks declassifying everything, you know, all the Navy
files they had to pitch out because you can't. They're all they could.
You couldn't declassify those, he said, because of you can't give away locations.
But everything else they declassified that they could. And the only thing I
can figure is some of these, I mean, everything I have file wise,
you can find the case file online. It may not I may have
you know, better look, quality of pictures, things like that, but
they're all on the case files themselves are all online. So I don't think
there's nothing in there that he didn't, you know, bring home. But
for a while I was trying to figure it out. You know, it
was this stuff out of his desk, And the last time I was talking
to him he was talking about a little bit more. I assumed it was
because of the briefings. I've got documents where he's had gave. He gave
briefings on UFOs to the Air Force, three or four of them. I'm
sure he did more than that. I just those are just what I have,
But a lot of it seems to be his personal stuff out of his
desk. But also he revealed to me the last time I was talking to
him, is he put a press kit together when he got there. You
know, the press was always going at it with the blue book staff wanting
to see things. So he charged himself with putting it. And I've even
got his basically a resume he put up of his duties that's in here.
He charges off with straightening up the files a little bit and making it easier
for the press to come in and look at things. So when he was
doing that kind of quintinella, which I call on quintinella only because that's what
the lieutenant calls him, I'm probably not pronouncing it right, but it's easier
to stay that way. Quinnella came in and jumping for doing that, basically
said, you know, the press is always on us, you know,
don't do anything to help them. Well, he did it anyway, made
him nice and organized for them to look at, and of course then they
loved it. Well then he told me that Quininella tried to take the credit
for it being his idea after that. But a lot of these are I
think a lot of these are photos that they had to show the press case
files, but some of them, some of the numbers on some of these
files are from the you know, the early fifties three digit case number files,
I mean, and the files are so old they almost look original.
So it's really hard for me to say for sure. That's what I'm kind
of my ongoing research trying to figure out the time period that these were actually
copied and made. I don't know if some of these are originals and copies
were made and putting the file more organized, but I've got, you know,
a lot of the early fifties cases on here too that are actually complete.
They're actually in brown folders. They weren't loose like a lot of the
other files in there. But yet if you go online you'll see the brown
folders scanned in on you know, the fold three website or the government website.
So there's a lot of I'm still trying to figure out the complete system
as far as that goes, but there has been a lot of I've found
things in here that I can't find online, as far as documents, regulations,
office memos, lots of things like that that came through the system.
Yeah, let's look anything stand out that you'd like to talk about. Well,
I'll start with with this Coro case and Ray. I we had a
couple guys from Muffan, Virginia. They're helping James Fox to look up some
do some researching on Scorro, and I contacted them telling them about the file.
I had not really knowing what they were looking for, just kind of
basically telling them about it. And they told me about Ray, which prompted
me to look into Ray. So I was reading about him on the internet
and I saw his symbol that he had, you know, for years,
had been saying the inverted V with the three lines through it. As I
was looking at that, and I was thinking, oh, I know I
have seen that in one of these books. So as I got my scorro
file. It's the most complete file I have. It's a it's all x
rocks, but it's one hundred basically one hundred and seventy some pages with the
complete file, and inside there are probably I'm guessing about fifteen pages of notes,
taking the best way I can figure notes taken from right Patterson over these
these mimograph notes are the originals. They're handwritten. There's the xerox copies,
but there handwritten originals and then xerox the page of xerox and I stuck one
of them on my website and it's actually got the symbol on it, and
it you know, it talks about Sergeant Shavez saying that it says air Force
personnel, which I believe that the original story was supposed to be Army.
Captain Holder told him, but air Force personnel said the substitute as symbol.
That doesn't prove, you know, that that symbol that is the truth,
but they wrote it down. I mean, it does prove all these years
that raised all that symbol was told that symbol If you ask me because all
the it says on there that the police officers told, you know, the
air Force, that they were told to use a different symbol. Line he
was told to use a different symbol down there, right. And then there
are also real good quality pictures that came with. I got a Manila folder
that came with like thirteen folders from the scene really and the site actually where
the pad Oh yeah, yeah, you can see the burnt bushes and they're
better than anything you can see online. I put a few of them on
my site there. You can see the scorch burst bushes. They were taken
the next day. I believe a lot of them were taken by the newspaper,
but not all of them. And you have the police officers had already
placed the rocks around the impressions. But they're pretty good quality pictures. Now.
When I when the Black Vault had the Blue Book files there for a
week or two, and that was that was nice to get on air and
compare compare things. Oh you had how long have you had these? Now?
You said over a year. I've had the first box ince September of
twenty thirteen. But I kind of just kept them to myself. I got
the other stuff actually last June. Okay, just to remind the we have
a number of people in the chat room. No one's really too active in
there, but if you're listening live, you can jump in the chat room
on PODCASTUFO dot com and it's really easy sign in and ask our guests a
question. Also, if Chris happened to be listening out there and you want
to call in, either one of you or both of you that six zero
three nine six seven four o three to zero one more time six h three
nine six seven four oh three to zero, You're welcome to call in.
Okay, so sorry to interrupt you, and go ahead. They but yeah,
that the scorero file. I'm trying to put a timeline. I talked
to Lieutenant about that file, you know that. I asked him, did
you put this one together for the press, and he said it was put
together by David Moody, who was the sergeant Moody, he was the guy
from right Patterson that was down there investigating, and he said that he had
put that together and he had spoke to him about that case. I mean
that one he remembered talking to him about. And he said Moody was convinced
that it was a NASA one of their lunar landers himself, which I've never
bought that story. That's totally ridiculous. Speak them things. I made them
things for wobble, and there would have been a crew out there that was
the case. Yeah, there's a lot that didn't make any sense with that
claim, but that's was there. But there's a lot of I mean a
lot a lot of things. You'll see. I was going page for page
on the Black Vault, seeing what I have. Some stuff I have that's
not that not in the government files. Some stuff that's in the government files
is not in my book. So I was just trying to I steal a
lot of research to do that try to figure those out. MA that Black
Vault was handy, but it only lasted a week or so and they took
it away. So kind of the other ones are a little harder to look
into things. It's time consuming, I'll put that way. But I've also
got a lot of just some of the let's say, some of the photos
I have. I'm going to point out another case here in particular, nineteen
fifty two Cuba. It's one that in the Project Blue Book files is listed
as a case missing a card missing. I got several pictures. It's just
a dot from that one citing I've got a Homer, New York and April
eleventh, nineteen sixty four had a doctor him and his wife and their two
kids were having a picnic and saw a craft come down and break off into
different pieces and maneuver around over a forty five minute period. Was why they
didn't have a camera. And his wife sketched the pictures for the Air Force,
and I don't have it written in my files, but I've seen it
online where they submitted, you know, seven photos and seven glass slides to
the Air Force. Well, the glass slides are in this collection. I
doubt the Air Force would have made duplicates of them. So there's a you
know, quite a few things in here that aren't that are are one of
a kind that I've you know, I haven't figure out what to do with
yet. There are several lots of books in here too. I'm looking right
now at the book Incident at Exeter. Oh yeah, it's a xerox copy,
but it was Heinez copy because it's got his name on it. I
mean it was his original. I think he copied it and gave it to
the Air Force. But it is heavily highlighted inside is as well, not
annotated. Well, I mean there's question marks and different things and smiley faces
and things like that, but a lot of highlights, smiley faces, yeah,
just different little doodles and things in it where they've I mean, it's
a lot of the I've got a lot of the research tools. That's why.
I think a lot of it came from their desk. Lots of manuals
and regulations and everything, and they had some pretty interesting books in here.
They even had a copy of the Nightcap Evident UFO Evidence Book from nineteen sixty
four. Well, hey, let me let me just ask you this up
was this is just out of my own ignorance. Here was a project blue
book at Wright Patterson. Oh yeah, yeah, see I didn't even know
that, but I mean now that you know, it even makes more sense.
Yeah, it was there the whole time they started their Well, project
Signs started there in forty seven, blue book starting fifty two and went up
to sixty nine. But I've got a lot of memos, you know about
telling that basically, it's a lot of notes that they had telling them what
was coming as far as you know, the Condon Report and lots of There's
even a folder in here that's I think it's the actual stuff they sent for
the Condon Report. It's got a lot of sightings listed in it, photographs
put in it. It's what they sent out to Colorado. That's what the
folder says on the side of it. So I don't know if it's a
copy of the one or the actual one, but it's got a lot of
stats in it and everything, and they've got a lot of statistics that came
with this. There's I'm trying to grab some of these books here, just
different. They had memberships to meteor clubs, so they could, you know,
a lot of the research tools of things they were looking into. Now
when they were there at the end, the lieutenant, it was just down
to him and basically three other guys when he was there when it shut down
at the end, and then for the last couple of months it was just
him and Quininella. So they were I mean, they were stretched thin as
far as investigating a lot going on. Now, I've they also got a
box of reference cards and their notes that they used. Basically I'm assuming for
typing up things, you know, when people call and ask them a question.
And what I found in here was on the estimate of the situation.
I haven't found that in here. I wish I would. That's one of
the things first things I was looking for. I've found several letters and correspondences
that mention it, and I got one here. That's basically it's what they're
to say. Best I can figure, is what they're to say if somebody
inquires about the estimate of the situation and it says that basically Captain Rupel said
everything about it that he could say in his book. I mean, basically,
they're saying what he said was true as far as it was brought up
through the chains, and then they told him to kill it and burn it.
I mean, that's what they even. I found it surprisingly to see
that that they had that written down in here, because normally therefore said it
didn't exist, never existed at all. So there's a lot of little little
things like that in there. Wow. So if I offered you like a
grand right now, would you take it? Oh? No, I'm just
I'm a history guy to myself. I enjoy Still I'm not done looking at
it. Yet put that way, give the people of Ohio a chance to
see it. I take it to the libraries around here. Things like that
kind of showed it off a little bit. On a serious note, you
know, I think of stuff like this. I actually have. I actually
have a former museum. It's actually literally a former museum with the showcases and
you know, an alarm system and all that, and I keep thinking,
wow, I would love to like house something like that, so a lot
of people could come in and take a look. So maybe when you get
tired of them down the road, we'll talk to some other people I can
talk to about this. But it would be a fun place because it's like
B and B. People could stay and you know, read the stuff.
So if you're listening and you have tons of money and you want to help
out with the project and open a UFO museum, I got the place.
Okay. Well, yeah, I'm not sure what I'm gonna do just yet,
but I'll keep that in mind. I know I'd like it to end
up somewhere where public can see it sometime. I mean, I hate when
things like that get put away and nobody gets to look at them again.
Yeah, and you can I think on a serious note. I mean,
you know, I'm sort of joking around a little bit, but but a
little bit of it, you know, like I could always be you know,
talk to about stuff like this. But I do want to say how
that works a lot of times is you can have things out on loan.
You know, things can be out and loans different like historical societies or someone
that actually, uh, someone that would really have an interest, like let's
just say let's throw this out there, that the Roswell Museum would take it
in and display it for you for a year or two. That these are
all possibilities, and that is a place right there where definitely people interested would
get a chance. I've been down there. It's a nice, nice little
setup to have back there a few years ago. Well, I took all
these, a lot of the loose file there were when I got these,
and I opened all the boxes and stacked everything. It was probably five foot
tall of papers and books involved. Now a lot some of these books are
xerox copies, but you know, they're still decent books, but they were.
It took me a while to separate everything out, trying to figure and
I've put everything in binders, you know, in acid free binder sleeves.
That way people when they when I do come and share them with somebody there,
they actually get to touch them and look at them. There were a
lot of I guess I haven't even talked about the films. There were films
in there, like sixteen millimeters or something sixteen. There's a sixteen millimeter of
the tree Mentton sighting from nineteen fifty two. But I went to have him.
I had them all transferred to digital format. That one was I was
disappointed in it. First of all. I was hoping because Officer knew House
You always said that there was about twenty feet missing off his film when he
got it back from the Air Force, so you know it's I didn't try
to measure it. I kind of wanted to get account on it when I
got done. But the thing is sixty years old and was very brittle.
So it's kind of disappointed in the quality of the video I got from it.
But I was able to get a copy of it. But what you
can find online looks better. It's unknown if it's longer just because of the
quality, but I will say it finishes it off. It's got somebody sewing.
I'm assuming it's you know, him or his wife, so it may
have the extra on it. It's just I've not been able to to totally
determine that yet. Or is it a gray sewing Oh yeah, now,
person, I thought soldern, but it took me a little bit figure out
that's a sewing machine. Okay. Now, is there actually negatives as well?
There are on photos? Yes, yeah, there's quite a few negatives,
quite a few negatives. They're not all of them, but some of
them there are. Uh now, I did back to the score O case.
There was an interesting mock up in there that there was a toy police
car and a toy police officer running and then a craft, you know,
down in a golly desert scene that you know, looked like the Coro craft.
Obviously the car wasn't the same color. But on the back on the
envelope there was nine copies of this picture in a Manila envelope and it actually,
pardon me, they actually made a setup of this and took a picture
of it. I don't know if they made it or somebody made it and
sent it to them, but the negatives are in there and nine copies of
the picture and it says the coro, which I mean it was, That's
what it was. But it says the coro mock up on you know they'd
written on the back of the pictures. Wow, I've been able to figure
that out. I've actually here in the last few days a few days came
up with a few phone numbers from former Blue Book staff people. I haven't
called him yet. You know a couple of secretaries that are still live.
That's one of my endeavors is to try to I want to try to figure
out where that picture came from, if it was the Air Force that made
it. I'm hoping that somebody that was back there in sixty four, which
I have a lady's phone number that was. I don't know that she'll remember
it or probably not, but I want to kind of ask her and see
what she says. I don't know if it was made from somebody down that
way. I just have no answer for that. And the lieutenant didn't either.
Like I said, it was two and a half years before his times
he had he didn't even remember that they were in there. Now. Another
film I had was the Maline, Illinois officer Fisher. He had taken seen
the scars shape or the box car shaped craft in the sky. There was
an eight millimeter of that. I have another sixteen millimeter. It's just a
dot in the sky and the only thing written on the case is UFO Unclassified
and Foreign Technology Division. So I've not really been able to figure out exactly
what it is. But there were sound, real real tapes in there also.
One of them was from that It was a March of nineteen sixty eight,
ended up being a zon Russian satellite re enter in the atmosphere. But
as there's probably a good hour interview with police officers from Morgantown, West Virginia,
this siding was all over the northeast, and the lieutenant actually told me
it was one of his favorite ones, you know, and he was never
more sure about a sighting than that one right there, and he'd never figured
out exactly where it landed, but he had it down to like a fifty
square mile area up in northeastern Pennslvania, southern New York in that area.
But there was also a lot of radio interviews on there from shows back in
the fifties on some of these sound tapes too, So the Air Force kept
track of a lot of that stuff. Now, did they have anything really
fringy on there, you know, like some real fringy books on contactees or
anything as well, or was it really sticking to cases more or less?
You know, there was one book and it was a Frank Stranger's book,
Flying Salcerama, and it was autographed to another guy in fifty nine. But
it was in that box and stuff, so I'm assumed the only thing.
I can't assume it was around their desks there in the Blue Book office,
you know, when he was cleaning up and he just kind of threw it
in. So yeah, there was I mean, that was the only thing
fringy I found in there. Everything else was more. I mean, there
was a lot of neat reference books, like I'm looking at one here.
It's the reference for Outstanding UFO Siding Reports. And they had a lot of
reference books like that. There were a couple of textbooks for physics from the
US Air Force Academy also, but they actually do talk about unidentified flying objects
in these books. The lieutenant didn't remember. I was asking particular about him
because he has you know, he's a physicist by training. He didn't remember
if they were from his training or Project blue Book material. He couldn't tell
me. He didn't even remember them. He just sent them to me.
There are lots of books of Another thing that was in there was a rollodex
of every kind of a who's who of UFOs back in the sixties. Stanton
Friedman's names in there, and you know his address and everything, phone numbers,
addresses and everything like that. Now, just just Nightcap. Let's talk
a little bit about Nightcap. Now, Nightcap was was actually going on the
same time somewhere in the sixties. So Project Blue Book and Nightcap were both,
you know, uh in session basically at the same time. Is there
have you found any reference to NICAP and NCAP papers or anything mixed in there
as well? I found a few. I found a few. Nothing that's
groundbreaking, but I mean there's a lot of Nightcap books, so they obviously
either shared information with them or at least followed them. M h. They
there's several of these reference books are you know, are NICAP related. And
there are paperworking there that's you know that sny CAP. Lots of correspondences from
Carl Sagan, I mean a ton of them from Philly Philip class uh something,
I mean, he he, There's almost not a letter without him making
fun of somebody. Yeah, like you know, that's into the subject.
I mean, I didn't know much about him himself, so I started looking
at these and kind of got you know, a better handle on what what
he what he did he Uh. There's a lot of uh things like that
in there. Correspondences though, between James McDonald and Uh, I got a
book set up here. There was also they had a folder on Nora AD
and space defense. A lot of I mean this stuff it's fifty years old,
hopefully it's not relevant anymore, but pictures, you know, inside the
place, the pictures of their telescopes, pictures of radar locations, charts,
things like that, lots of things from the FAA and this same folder also
Once again though, I mean they did a lot of research. They can't
deny that they didn't try, just by seeing the stuff they have in here.
Now, what was the tone of the McDonald that correspondence? He was
usually more I can't think of them right off. Just second here I'm getting
that book out. He was his cases were more trying to offer solutions,
you know, logical solutions what they had guesses more. Now I've got a
lot from Donald Roby. He wrote a lot of books on the green meteors
and the fireballs and plasma. A lot in there from him. You know,
there's a lot of most of the correspondences are trying to help them explain.
They would send these guys papers. Even I've got a document from sixty
six where the Air Force says they're going to start using scientists. But some
of these are from way before that, where they were actually using them and
asking them questions about things. I'll have to get some of the some of
those scanned in and put on my website. Though. There are a lot
of Air Force publications about AIDS, but I'm looking at one now, aids
to Identification of Flying Objects. I mean there's three or four different issues of
that. Inside it would have the stats and then you know, tell you
what the latest airplanes that are out there. Things like that. Stuff I've
never seen anywhere before. There's a lot of stuff on Heinech. Now.
You know, by the time the lieutenant was there, Heinich had already kind
of changed as far as pro UFO pro aliens and the Lieutenant him butted heads
a lot. Now, even in his book he mentions the Lieutenant you know,
said that the lieutenant was surprised that Marunt that Heinich talked about him in
a good way because he had to get on him so much. He had
to get on him. Taken six months to complete a case. A lot
of these files that I have that are single page, they'll have written on
it Heinek Special, you know, an inak Pen. Basically it was at
the late the ones in the late sixties, basically where the lieutenant said everything
he saw he wanted to unidentify. So they kind of butt heads a little
bit. But I do have like one of his contracts and a lot of
his bills that he would send the Air Force copies of him not the originals,
copies of his bills for his time, for his each phone call he
made places he went from the late say. So there there's some pretty neat
stuff in there like that. But there's just a lot of little books,
a lot of pictures, a lot of color pictures. I mean when you
get online now, like on full three's website, and I'm going to pull
out one hearing from particular is Governor's Island, New York in nineteen fifty two.
July of nineteen fifty two. It ended up being an unidentified case and
I've got you know, I've got four. There were six pictures taken.
I guess I've got four of them. They're pretty pretty interesting pictures with the
color and everything which you can see in them as far as you know what
the black and white parts are. So you know, I'm not opposed to
sharing them with people if they you know, if somebody's interested in a particular
case and a to shoot me an email and if I have anything on it,
I'll kind of share it with them. That's how I kind of got
hooked up with Ray and Chris, and I got another guy that's probably been
on your show before, Dave Marler out of Albuquerque, New Mexico. He's
coming up on April fifteenth. Actually, I always think, okay, well,
me and him, we do a lot of share and information over the
internet, and he kind of helps me out a little bit when questions down
that way too. So I've got a couple guys of working with me a
little bit trying to sort this stuff out. Speaking of Dave Marler, he's
known for triangular UFOs. He wrote a book on it. Great guy.
You know, you hear his name A lot. And speaking of that,
I noticed in these pictures there's a triangular UFO and a light formation daylight sighting.
Is it a color picture, No, it's a black and white picture.
I can't pull it up right now, but I just was going to
ask you. It sounds like you wouldn't be able to cite where that particular
one was. Yeah, it's actually out of a window of a car or
a train or oh that's the that's the one in Massachusets Salem, Massachusetts in
nineteen fifty two. I believe it sets up on the photo image July fifty
two, Massachusetts. Yes, you got it. Yeah, now they I
mean the Air Force. I believe that one was classified as an unknown Some
people will say it's reflection of lights inside. Now that picture, when you
normally when you see that picture, it's cropped, you can't see the actual
window, but you can see there that they're inside of a building taking that
picture out in that picture and that one, I can't the exact classification that
one's escaping me right now, but I know it's one you're talking about.
And I'm pretty sure that one ended up being unidentified, even though a lot
of people say it's lights reflect you know, lights off of a ceiling reflecting
through the glass. Well, that is a possibility for sure, you know,
look at it. And I've got the paperwork on that. And they,
you know, in their investigation, they're talking about the way the sun's
hitting the cars and the shadows and the reflections off the cars. A lot
of these I'd like to as I get time, I try to one of
them. I mean, I've got some many things I'm trying to do with
these. Count how many he's in there, but I'm trying to investigate cases,
you know, with present technology as far as star charts and everything,
and it's a little time consuming, but that's one I want to work on
a little bit. And one thing I did not say the three books I
was telling you about to have all the case listings. They've got it.
First of all, they've got all the It's funny, they've got all the
navy listings in them, all the military at sea ones, all the coordinates,
which when I told him I had those books, he said, you
know, I probably shouldn't say this, but you know, there might be
stuff in those books that we didn't send down the Maxwell. Now, all
that did was make me try to count them all, and that's a horror.
I just I just went through counting the Ohio ones and that took me
a good week trying to get you see how many there were there. But
that's you can't really do it online. I mean, there's just so many
different versions of things out there and things blacked out. So you know,
over time here, I hope to have more answers on the actual count in
those books to see if it's the same Twelvey six hundred and eighteen that Blue
Books supposed to had. You know, in the same seven hundred and one.
There could be more, could be less. That's kind of what I'm
one of my projects I'm working on. I know Ohio alone, in the
twenty two years of project Blue Book and Sign and Grudge had eleven and twenty
four sightings, so twenty two of them aroundknowns that's Ohio had a lot of
them, and especially the Dayton area, which kind of surprised me. Well,
I believe that's what our guest said last week, if I remember right,
also from Ohio. I was looking at a couple of documents I wanted
to talk about one and we have a FAA Federal Aviation agency document here basically
on reporting of identified flying objects. And that's interesting, you know, because
basically the FAA wants nothing to do with UFOs today. Yeah, they've got
I've got a there was a huge file on FAA and space tracking and radar
tracking in here. Yeah, trying to find that particular one. That's okay.
I mean, I'm just gonna you know, I mean, there's just
a couple of them that were intriguing. How many documents would you say that
you have approximately I've got thirty binders that I put together that are probably two
inches thick on average. And then I have a tub full of actual files,
probably have forty files in them that are you know, the original ones
I'm not wanting to break up out of the brown folders. A lot of
those are I mean historic ones Trinidad Island, I mean, just the whole
interviews with all the officers, a lot of military sightings in there, but
a lot of them are just single case files. Also, you know,
just one pay And I asked the lieutenant about that, I said, you
know, is that all there was on ease? He said, no,
those were that's because he had pulled them for the press, just the case
summaries. Yeah, I would say I saw a couple of things from or
I saw one piece here from Carl Sagan. Interesting, Yeah, Lieutenant,
he remembered that one because when he when I was talking to him at you
know, first or second time, He's like, well, there's one letter
I'm going to send you, you know, he said, an autograph from
Carl Sagan directly to Quininella. And he said, you'll like that. I'm
not sure. I'm trying to determine if that's Carl Sagan's signature or actual secretaries.
Uh, that's actually we can talk offline, and that's something I could
do. I do a lot of research like that. But yeah, that's
interesting and what and as you can see that one's not a copy, and
there's a lot of these that aren't copies. But but all the case files
himself are you know, our copies, Like I say, I've got those
glass slides. You know, I've got some other photos and things in here
that I'm assuming most of them, like, I've not been able to research
all of them. If that Black Vault has been still around, what they
were easy to search, you know, they had I would have had a
little little I'll have a little more answers as I get some more time to
go through that stuff. Yep, Yeah, that was a lot of wasted
work by I know, it was just easy. I mean the other ones,
like say, you can search them, but that one was so easy
to just get on there and put in what you wanted. And I mean
I was really able to cruise right through the scorero file page for page and
just see what I had and what I did, And that's kind of how
I came across, you know, that stuff for Ray. Would you assume
that these cartoons that were in the lot were just sent like from friends or
you know, those were I think they were clearly collected by the staff,
and some of them are I mean I think by the staff the whole time.
Some of them from the early fifties. They have dates on them.
You probably can't see them on there, but there's a some of them updates,
you know, as I say, it's fifty one, fifty two.
And then there's one of them there that's got a doodle about Captain Gregory on
it, and there might be more than one that's actually doodled about him.
So I think it's this guy sitting in the office, you know, clipping
and collecting. There's a I mean even the funny thing is that I've got
there's probably one hundred and fifty cartoons. Oh wow. Yeah. Some of
them's napkin. I mean one of them's a napkin with aliens on it.
You know, just anything they could find, you know, that stuff on
there they kept. Kind of it's kind of funny how they did. I
mean some of them are pretty good too. But my favorite one is the
one I put on the website there of Quintinella hypnotized in the crowd. I
mean that's all somebody did that obviously from sixty six on scribbled that one on
there. I'll have to have to check that out. Now, there is
one picture I did want to talk to you about. In it looks like
a disc shaped UFO behind the tail of a jet from the cockpit. Yeah,
that's like yeah, And I've tried to figure that one out. That
one was loose in the box. I mean, all the other slides were
in a slide box, but that one was just loose in there in the
papers, and the only thing written on it was B forty seven tail.
Wow. I mean, that's quite an object in the back and it was
dirty. The thing was had like a film all over it. So I
you know, I bought some special alcohol and was able to clean it up.
And I've been trying I've dated it's kind of a tie in as far
as that alien slide that's coming out here in May right, as far as
the dating goes, I was able to date that. Well, there's another
picture in there that shows this on my website that shows for seven silver slides.
Those are the Homer New York glass slides, but also down at the
bottom it's got a red and white slide that's that particular one the casing,
and it's from you know, I dated it from forty nine. I think
the fifty Somewhere in that period is when that one was made. I'm sorry,
forty nine, the fifty seven. So I've tried to determine it whether
or not that that's a few years before the B the B forty seven that
went around there and around Mississippi River Air Texas and Mississippi. The RB forty
seven, I don't know if it's from that one. I mean, I've
done a lot of search and B forty seven's in Project blue Book on the
Internet, and surprisingly there was a bunch of them, and I can't find
one in particular that said there was pictures like that. Now, the RB
forty seven said there supposedly was pictures, but nobody knows where they are.
I have I've never been able to confirm if that's what that is. But
I know it's a pretty picture. I mean, you can it almost looks
fake, and I can't tell if that's I mean, that's probably a glare,
but I can't tell what that is, and that I've stared at that
thing for hours trying to figure it out. It's what's following it, if
it's an actual object or it looks like it, and I'm wondering if that
can be enhanced somehow. But that's just as far as that slide go.
That actual picture. I projected it on the wall and my you know,
my house on my screen and just snapped a picture of it. Even that's
fairly good quality if I took it somewhere and had it actually transferred. I've
kind of been hesitant about taking this stuff and leaving it places. Sure,
I mean, I well, it killed me to do that to the film,
but I had no choice. Ray will make you even more scared if
you talk to him about it. Oh yeah, yeah, he told me
had stuff come up missing from his house and everything, soh yeah, yeah,
he's had a bunch of stuff like that happening. We have We have
about about three minutes or so left. Actually, we only have a couple
of minutes left. So let's talk quickly about First of all, we already
talked about what your future plans possibly are. Yeah, and so if we
uh no where someone can find all these and let's just say that someone has
enough of an interest that they actually want to view these in hand, is
that something you'd actually make possible? Yeah? Yeah, yeah, I mean
if they wanted to come to where I'm at. Yeah, no, I
take them around Ohio here, and I may end up taking them farther.
But we're having a one place I can tell you in particular that it going
to be is in June sixth, move on of Ohio. We're having our
conference. It's up northern Ohio and Ashland, a little south of Columbus or
Cleveland. I'm going to have them there all day. I'm not doing any
presentations or anything. I took the first box I had last year, and
people loved coming up and looking at it. Well, this one, I'm
going to have a couple of tables and set everything out so people can,
you know, browse through them during the conference conferences six or seven hours long,
you know, in between speakers and during lunch. Yeah. People,
anybody that wants to come to that welcome to come and browse them. James
Fox is going to be there. He's got the he's been working on that
movie seven oh one right in tend hopefully to show them to him. Well
that's that'd be great. I'm sure he'd be very that could actually be part
of that that film. So we have a we have a little less in
a minute left, So can you give out your website if you would,
Yes, Miami Valley UFO Society dot com. Oh wow, that's a long
one, Miami Valley UFO Society dot com. And that will be in our
show notes, okay, And I say I just try to it's just a
link to news sources. It's mainly for to try to get people around here,
you know, a local place. Maybe they'll start giving reports, clicking
them our away, what's they'll go to move move on if they come through
my site. But mainly it's just try to get people around here talking about
the subject. So many people have had relatives work there, right Pat,
I mean there's stories out there to be found. He's got to find them,
that's right. Well, thanks so much. I really appreciate it all
right, Prevent, it's been a real pleasure, And good luck with with
these and be interested to see what happens down the road. So that's it
for the show this evening. I want to thank you for being our guest
tonight, and I also want to thank people that helped. Actually it was
Alejandro Rojas did not help with the news this week. It was Chip Reichenthal
helped me out there. Alejandro should be back next week. He didn't tell
me if it was a two week vacation though, so I don't know for
sure. Kerry Lloyd white House has provided the music for us. Peggy Shunning.
I want to thank her for managing the Facebook page. Remember you can
like us on Facebook for all the latest UFO news, and you can check
us out live right here on the Dark Matter Radio Network and every Wednesday at
eight pm to ten pm Eastern Standard time. Next week we have Terry Ray.
He's the offer of the complete story of the worldwide invasion of ORBS.
I've always I wanted to talk to him about this, so that should be
great. So tune in next week. And this is Martin Willis signing off.