WEBVTT 1 00:00:00.120 --> 00:00:05.200 Hello, and welcome to the Rojas Report. My name is Alejandro Rojas. 2 00:00:05.320 --> 00:00:11.000 That's the name Roja and I have with me Steve McDaniel and Steve. I'm 3 00:00:11.000 --> 00:00:16.960 going to actually read your bio that we had put together. And this is 4 00:00:16.960 --> 00:00:22.120 the first time I've had Steve on on the show. Actually Steve is viewing 5 00:00:22.199 --> 00:00:25.879 the roe hoarts and I'm very full for that, Thank you very much. 6 00:00:26.359 --> 00:00:32.000 But let me tell you something Steve, so you can understand why I'm so 7 00:00:32.079 --> 00:00:36.840 excited for this interview and how Steve can contribute to the conversation, which he's 8 00:00:36.920 --> 00:00:40.719 already had talked about that as well, even though he's kind of new to 9 00:00:42.000 --> 00:00:46.000 at least in the limelight in this field. But Steve McDaniel is a founder 10 00:00:46.039 --> 00:00:49.880 and lead software developer of sky Hub if you've heard about that. That's an 11 00:00:49.960 --> 00:00:55.520 organization that the Scientific Coalition for UFO or UAP Research just partnered with. But 12 00:00:55.920 --> 00:01:02.039 sky Hub is a community of volunteers that's dedicated to developing UAP UFO tracking software 13 00:01:02.399 --> 00:01:08.560 that enables users to deploy Skyhub trackers to help research the UFO UAP phenomenon. 14 00:01:08.799 --> 00:01:14.439 Steve has over twenty years of technical experience over a wide range of industries. 15 00:01:15.000 --> 00:01:19.280 Seventeen plus years of experience includes software development, reverse engineering, Windows Linux kernel 16 00:01:19.280 --> 00:01:26.239 development, and developing highly distributive systems. Several years of experience using a variety 17 00:01:26.280 --> 00:01:30.439 of tools, profiling tools and software assurance tools. And this next part I 18 00:01:30.519 --> 00:01:36.959 have found, especially with our friend Tim McMillan, it's extremely valuable experience. 19 00:01:37.000 --> 00:01:42.280 Which is Steve spent five years in naval intelligence in a total sixteen years in 20 00:01:42.359 --> 00:01:47.640 the intelligence community. Steve was also the one to discover the UAP report request 21 00:01:47.719 --> 00:01:53.280 for the Senate Select Committee on Intelligence in the Intelligence Authorization Actor for twenty twenty 22 00:01:53.319 --> 00:01:57.159 one. In fact, this has made big news, but nobody might have 23 00:01:57.239 --> 00:02:01.159 even noticed it if it wasn't for Steve. Discuss how Steve found this information 24 00:02:01.519 --> 00:02:07.760 and how it relates to his software driven search for you AP information. We'll 25 00:02:07.799 --> 00:02:13.599 also get his observations and perspectives on recent news. Welcome to the show, 26 00:02:13.639 --> 00:02:16.919 Steve, Thanks for having me on. It's great to be here, and 27 00:02:16.960 --> 00:02:22.759 thank you. Fantastic intro. Yeah, thank you for coming on. So 28 00:02:23.599 --> 00:02:28.520 I say, new to the field. I'm guessing that you've been into this 29 00:02:28.639 --> 00:02:36.439 topic for quite some time, though so somewhat so typically normally I would catch 30 00:02:36.479 --> 00:02:40.360 the occasional UFO documentary. Years ago, I watched a season or two of 31 00:02:40.439 --> 00:02:46.680 Ancient Aliens. Haven't watched it since, but you know, i'd catch occasional 32 00:02:46.719 --> 00:02:52.360 documentaries and I've always wondered if there was something to it. Late last year, 33 00:02:53.800 --> 00:02:58.719 actually over the Christmas holiday, I ended up writing a UFO tool that 34 00:02:58.879 --> 00:03:06.599 actually indexed thousands and thousands of UFO documents that had been released by world governments 35 00:03:07.000 --> 00:03:10.599 or through four year requests. And that's kind of what got me into the 36 00:03:10.840 --> 00:03:15.800 UFO Twitter community, and since then it's progressed into larger projects such as sky 37 00:03:15.960 --> 00:03:21.599 Hub. But I've I've really been participating in the community less than a year, 38 00:03:22.680 --> 00:03:29.800 so I'm somewhat of a newcomer. M So you know what, I 39 00:03:29.840 --> 00:03:36.719 guess drove you to do this then, So it's interesting years ago I saw 40 00:03:36.759 --> 00:03:42.400 a UFO so about it was about twenty years ago, in nineteen ninety six 41 00:03:43.199 --> 00:03:46.879 I actually saw UFO and still to this day, I have no idea what 42 00:03:46.960 --> 00:03:51.840 I saw, so I'm not exactly sure what I saw, but it was 43 00:03:52.919 --> 00:03:57.919 something I still can't explain. So that's that's kind of why I have an 44 00:03:57.919 --> 00:04:02.039 interest in a drive to to figure out what's going on. So kind of 45 00:04:02.039 --> 00:04:06.800 my perspective is is I think this is something that's worthy of scientific research, 46 00:04:08.199 --> 00:04:13.520 and kind of when I decided to get into the community, I wanted to 47 00:04:13.560 --> 00:04:17.439 have a very narrow focus and a very specific purpose. And I've tried to 48 00:04:17.480 --> 00:04:23.240 focus on that one thing and contribute what I can. And then once I 49 00:04:23.319 --> 00:04:27.199 do that, you know, we'll see that where that leads me. Mm 50 00:04:27.319 --> 00:04:30.680 hmm. As far as you're sighting, are you willing to like share any 51 00:04:30.800 --> 00:04:38.319 the days? Sure? Sure. So I was actually sleeping outside looking up 52 00:04:38.319 --> 00:04:42.959 at the stars with two other people, and as we were sitting there, 53 00:04:43.800 --> 00:04:48.959 a very bright red and orange object was moving across the sky and it was 54 00:04:49.720 --> 00:04:53.959 kind of floating across the sky, and all three of us saw it, 55 00:04:54.079 --> 00:04:57.040 and we're just like, what in the world is that thing? So, 56 00:04:57.160 --> 00:05:00.879 as it slowly was gliding across the sky, at its stopped and appeared to 57 00:05:00.920 --> 00:05:09.560 stay stationary for roughly ten seconds. Then it shot off in the opposite direction 58 00:05:10.399 --> 00:05:13.879 and was gone in one or two seconds, and it cleared the entire sky 59 00:05:13.959 --> 00:05:17.800 and horizon and was out of you. It was one of the strangest things 60 00:05:17.800 --> 00:05:23.680 I've ever seen. But you know, who knows the other thing is this 61 00:05:23.800 --> 00:05:30.000 is fourth of July weekend. It didn't look like a firework. But there's 62 00:05:30.040 --> 00:05:39.879 really like like witness testimony, like personal experience really isn't scientific, so it's 63 00:05:39.920 --> 00:05:44.360 hard to really base anything on a personal experience, something that you saw in 64 00:05:44.399 --> 00:05:47.560 the sky without data to back it up. So that's why that's why we're 65 00:05:47.560 --> 00:05:53.279 making sky hubs, so people have data to back up things that they see. 66 00:05:53.439 --> 00:05:58.839 M hm. It's interesting because my signings are somewhat i would say boring 67 00:05:59.040 --> 00:06:03.199 like yours, but like you, they still boggle me. And it's kind 68 00:06:03.240 --> 00:06:08.639 of funny because of the different reactions people have. So I've talked to a 69 00:06:08.639 --> 00:06:11.639 lot of people who are like, I've never seen a UFO. But then 70 00:06:11.680 --> 00:06:15.480 I explain, you know, a couple of my sightings which are similar to 71 00:06:15.560 --> 00:06:19.160 yours, point of light doing something it shouldn't be doing, and they often 72 00:06:19.199 --> 00:06:21.879 say, oh, I've seen something like that, but that's not a UFO. 73 00:06:23.000 --> 00:06:25.759 That's like a satellite or something, right, and they don't realize, 74 00:06:25.879 --> 00:06:29.600 well, no, that's not how satellites. They don't stop and turn around, 75 00:06:29.720 --> 00:06:32.600 you know, they go one direction. So it's kind of funny because 76 00:06:33.800 --> 00:06:40.120 the couple of sightings I've had are similar, but like you, they're very 77 00:06:40.199 --> 00:06:46.800 impactful although understated. Yeah, definitely, it's and it's interesting to see something 78 00:06:46.839 --> 00:06:50.160 and not be able to come up with a plausible explanation. So, like 79 00:06:50.199 --> 00:06:56.199 you said, it could be a satellite or an iridium flair a drone and 80 00:06:56.519 --> 00:07:00.199 you know over twenty years ago that wasn't really really drones around, so it's 81 00:07:00.279 --> 00:07:04.360 it's kind of hard to find an explanation and there definitely could be like a 82 00:07:04.480 --> 00:07:11.800 natural or prosaic explanation for it. And if sky Helb can help determine natural 83 00:07:11.839 --> 00:07:16.800 explanations, that's also a win. Mm let's get into Skyhub. So sky 84 00:07:16.920 --> 00:07:20.319 Hub, and I think you have a part of sky Hub behind you in 85 00:07:20.360 --> 00:07:24.720 the background there it looks like an idea with a dome. Yeah, it's 86 00:07:24.720 --> 00:07:27.839 one of my test cameras and my test set up back there for development. 87 00:07:28.879 --> 00:07:30.519 So in fact, I'm going to bring up the website, but go ahead. 88 00:07:31.600 --> 00:07:36.079 So yeah, so kind of the idea with sky Hub was we wanted 89 00:07:36.120 --> 00:07:45.480 to remove the human element from UAP observation. So people often talk about how 90 00:07:45.480 --> 00:07:51.319 difficult it is to study the phenomenon because it's not reproducible. Well that's perfect 91 00:07:51.360 --> 00:07:59.240 because that's what observational science is so we basically have made a platform that is 92 00:07:59.360 --> 00:08:03.639 free. The software is free, you'll have to purchase the hardware, but 93 00:08:03.680 --> 00:08:09.439 we use commodity off the shelf hardware to put together a platform to collect different 94 00:08:09.519 --> 00:08:16.680 data points about UFOs and UAPs. So we're collecting video data, Sensor data 95 00:08:16.959 --> 00:08:24.120 includes magnetic readings, atmospheric ratings, temperature barometer and things like that. And 96 00:08:24.120 --> 00:08:31.440 we're also tracking airplanes using ADSB, so we'll actually track airplanes flying within range 97 00:08:31.440 --> 00:08:35.799 of views so we can help roll out known aircraft from the sky, which 98 00:08:35.840 --> 00:08:39.919 is really helpful when you're trying to find things that shouldn't be there and that 99 00:08:39.960 --> 00:08:46.559 aren't explainable. So really what it is is it's a citizen science platform that 100 00:08:46.840 --> 00:08:52.159 anyone can get involved and deploy their own tracker and create a global data set 101 00:08:52.519 --> 00:08:56.519 that we plan on giving away for free. So the idea is we can 102 00:08:56.559 --> 00:09:01.480 accumulate this massive data set from trackers all over the globe and try to get 103 00:09:01.519 --> 00:09:07.720 academics and scientists involved to actually analyze and research this data. And to date 104 00:09:07.840 --> 00:09:13.679 it's been great, so we've gotten individuals. Actually, specifically we brought Chris 105 00:09:13.919 --> 00:09:20.360 Cogswell in he agreed to be our director of the science at sky Hub, 106 00:09:20.879 --> 00:09:24.600 so he's the director of the advisory board. So he's managed to reach out 107 00:09:24.639 --> 00:09:28.279 to watch of lots of scientists and academics, and we're getting individuals such as 108 00:09:30.120 --> 00:09:35.639 meteorologists and physicists involved. We've got astronomers involved, and now excuse me, 109 00:09:37.240 --> 00:09:43.320 astronomers involved that have basically more expertise in certain areas that really helped the project 110 00:09:43.360 --> 00:09:48.320 grow and develop. And that's what we want. We want academics to look 111 00:09:50.000 --> 00:09:54.279 at what we've done and realize that we've actually followed the scientific method and produced 112 00:09:54.279 --> 00:10:00.559 a data set that they don't have to worry about the stigma or or the 113 00:10:01.000 --> 00:10:05.559 fringe aspect of eufology. They get to focus on just pure data mm hmm, 114 00:10:07.200 --> 00:10:11.759 which is kind of a burgeoning area right now, although when I say 115 00:10:11.799 --> 00:10:18.840 that, you know, it's a slow growth, but it's there than it 116 00:10:20.080 --> 00:10:22.919 was in the past, and I do want to So it looks like your 117 00:10:22.960 --> 00:10:28.159 project is you provide the software, You create the software people, it's open 118 00:10:28.200 --> 00:10:31.799 source, anybody can use it, and then you give people directions on how 119 00:10:31.840 --> 00:10:35.679 to build their own device, like the one that we see in the picture 120 00:10:35.799 --> 00:10:41.519 here, which is it looks really cool and at least but the bottom part 121 00:10:41.720 --> 00:10:45.960 actually looks fairly simple. It looks a lot like the storage unit I have 122 00:10:46.120 --> 00:10:52.200 outside, like one of those outside storage type things. So it's actually pretty 123 00:10:52.200 --> 00:10:56.200 fantastic. So we had a member of the community that was involved early on. 124 00:10:56.279 --> 00:11:03.799 His name's Richard. He's from Austria and he actually designed this case. 125 00:11:05.320 --> 00:11:09.240 So he actually has one of these that he built and is sitting on his 126 00:11:09.360 --> 00:11:13.519 roof in Austria pointed up at the sky. So it's really great to see 127 00:11:13.519 --> 00:11:18.399 members of the community be major contributors to this project. So he's really solved 128 00:11:18.440 --> 00:11:22.559 a lot of the hardware and enclosure problems that we have. He's gone through 129 00:11:22.600 --> 00:11:26.519 like done weather testing, he's deployed it out in the rain for weeks at 130 00:11:26.519 --> 00:11:33.080 a time, and it's really really run well. And we're looking at building 131 00:11:33.080 --> 00:11:39.200 more of these enclosures and deploying more boxes that look just like this. So 132 00:11:39.960 --> 00:11:43.639 is it a combination of people can take the initiative to build their own, 133 00:11:43.759 --> 00:11:48.720 but also you're trying to raise funds to get them built and to distribute them. 134 00:11:50.039 --> 00:11:56.559 So ultimately right now it's very DIY. So there's actually a lot of 135 00:11:56.559 --> 00:11:58.840 these parts are three D printable, so you can actually print them in a 136 00:11:58.840 --> 00:12:03.279 three D printer and all those files are available. Over time, we would 137 00:12:03.320 --> 00:12:11.000 like to transition into buying the entire unit in one piece, because not everybody 138 00:12:11.000 --> 00:12:16.879 wants to do wiring or assembling or three D printing. So we have discussed 139 00:12:16.919 --> 00:12:24.240 doing something like a Kickstarter campaign or Indiegogo where we can go to a manufacturer 140 00:12:24.240 --> 00:12:28.919 and say, okay, here's the complete system, make us a thousand of 141 00:12:28.960 --> 00:12:33.000 them, or however many we get funded and actually be able to mass produce 142 00:12:33.279 --> 00:12:37.639 so people can just buy a box and plug it in. So that is 143 00:12:37.639 --> 00:12:41.000 a long term goal of ours because we would really like to see thousands of 144 00:12:41.000 --> 00:12:48.399 these deployed across the globe. And so you've got working units like right now, 145 00:12:48.480 --> 00:12:52.399 you have units that are working, and the ability like you've got it 146 00:12:52.440 --> 00:12:58.279 all worked out where this can actually be done created right now. Yes, 147 00:12:58.519 --> 00:13:01.919 so we have a bunch of tenes, so we hope to make a final 148 00:13:01.960 --> 00:13:07.080 release this month. But we have quick test notes across the United States and 149 00:13:09.159 --> 00:13:18.360 Austria that are currently processing live video data and basically collecting metadata and environmental data 150 00:13:18.960 --> 00:13:24.840 and shipping it to a central location in the cloud. So we're really close 151 00:13:24.879 --> 00:13:31.559 to having a public release that will be generally available to the public. That's 152 00:13:31.639 --> 00:13:35.120 cool. And the reason I state that is because, as you probably are 153 00:13:35.159 --> 00:13:43.919 aware, there have been several other projects to do this one. Let's see 154 00:13:43.000 --> 00:13:48.919 what is it, UFO photog or UFO TG you know which is backed. 155 00:13:48.919 --> 00:13:52.600 And I probably had this guy on the most marked' antonio because he's a friend 156 00:13:52.639 --> 00:13:58.440 of mine who works with the special effects guru of shows like Close Encounters, 157 00:13:58.919 --> 00:14:01.360 Douglas Trumbull, and they've tried to develop their own. Of course, they're 158 00:14:01.440 --> 00:14:09.000 just a two man team. Essentially. There's Chris he's in the San Luis 159 00:14:09.080 --> 00:14:15.879 Valley of Colorado. Chris O'Brien, who's created when he's actually deployed a few 160 00:14:16.399 --> 00:14:22.000 and then there's also, maybe even more important for what's going on right now, 161 00:14:22.120 --> 00:14:24.519 Chris Mellen, who's in the news so much in part of to the 162 00:14:24.559 --> 00:14:28.480 Stars and some of the other more serious researchers put together a group called UFO 163 00:14:28.639 --> 00:14:33.000 Data a few years ago and that kind of made headline. Ley Caine wrote 164 00:14:33.039 --> 00:14:37.840 about that for the Hufstington Post. Leslie Cane being one of the authors of 165 00:14:37.240 --> 00:14:43.919 the string of New York Times articles on UFOs, but nothing really came of 166 00:14:43.519 --> 00:14:48.240 that, really, not much, as Chris O'Brien's the only one to actually 167 00:14:48.320 --> 00:14:52.240 get one deployed out in the field. So it's kind of exciting that you 168 00:14:52.360 --> 00:14:56.879 guys, you know, came into this not at the beginning with something you 169 00:14:58.080 --> 00:15:03.039 hope to do, kind of like UFO Data did, but you actually are 170 00:15:03.200 --> 00:15:09.000 ready to deploy right So. And it's interesting because over a year ago I 171 00:15:09.080 --> 00:15:16.240 actually sent UFO Data a message because I wanted to join their team and work 172 00:15:16.279 --> 00:15:18.320 on it, but I never actually heard back, and I believe I reached 173 00:15:18.320 --> 00:15:24.240 out two times, and it's it's something I've kept my eye on, and 174 00:15:24.279 --> 00:15:30.559 they do occasional status updates, but I don't know how involved their project is 175 00:15:30.639 --> 00:15:33.320 or how much activity they have going on. But there are some great projects 176 00:15:33.360 --> 00:15:39.360 out there that appeared to have made some really good progress. UFODAP, I 177 00:15:39.360 --> 00:15:45.320 think it's done a very good job with their platform, but I wanted to 178 00:15:45.360 --> 00:15:50.159 take a different approach. I wanted this to be an open community, and 179 00:15:50.200 --> 00:15:54.039 I wanted the data to be open to the public. I mean, it's 180 00:15:54.080 --> 00:16:00.639 really not about the tracker, right It's about a public database of of UFO 181 00:16:00.799 --> 00:16:06.639 data that people own. So there's no cost. We've licensed everything under a 182 00:16:06.679 --> 00:16:11.799 Creative Commons license. All of our source code is licensed under an MIT license. 183 00:16:11.480 --> 00:16:15.200 Anybody can take anything we've done and use it for any purpose. There's 184 00:16:15.200 --> 00:16:21.840 only one stipulation on the data. It's free for public use and academic use. 185 00:16:22.519 --> 00:16:26.720 But we do have a stipulation and it is for you cannot use it 186 00:16:26.720 --> 00:16:33.000 for commercial use. So we want to make sure that that data it makes 187 00:16:33.039 --> 00:16:37.000 it to the public into academia without any cost at all. That's cool, 188 00:16:37.080 --> 00:16:42.840 that's great. So getting into some of the software side, like you mentioned 189 00:16:42.879 --> 00:16:48.080 on the site, AI a lot, so maybe you could share the role 190 00:16:48.240 --> 00:16:55.519 artificial intelligence takes in the project. So yeah, So one of the things 191 00:16:55.879 --> 00:17:02.759 that's very expensive when you do basically any type of cloud infrastructure is storage costs 192 00:17:02.799 --> 00:17:06.400 a lot. So one of the things that takes a lot of storage is 193 00:17:06.480 --> 00:17:11.160 video. So we want to keep video in its raw form and it takes 194 00:17:11.240 --> 00:17:15.880 a lot of space, so we can't just store every second of video from 195 00:17:15.920 --> 00:17:21.039 every tracker. We really want to do is have some sort of filtering mechanism 196 00:17:21.440 --> 00:17:26.039 that runs at the edge and that would be on the tracker. So the 197 00:17:26.039 --> 00:17:30.000 best way to filter is to use machine learning. So machine learning has progressed 198 00:17:30.279 --> 00:17:37.119 leaps and bounds over the years, and basically we're using machine learning models such 199 00:17:37.160 --> 00:17:45.160 as tiny, yolow and object tracking to identify and label objects. Now, 200 00:17:45.200 --> 00:17:48.319 often when we bring this up, people point out, well, how do 201 00:17:48.359 --> 00:17:53.000 you identify something that's unidentified? So it's a good question, right, So 202 00:17:53.240 --> 00:17:56.680 we start with the things that we know, so we can go through and 203 00:17:57.000 --> 00:18:03.119 classify birds and bugs, flies, planes, and things that we know should 204 00:18:03.160 --> 00:18:08.480 be in the sky, and we basically assign them a label. Unfortunately, 205 00:18:08.599 --> 00:18:14.599 there's lots of publicly available free machine learning models that we get to start with, 206 00:18:15.039 --> 00:18:18.079 so we start with all the known things, and over time, as 207 00:18:18.079 --> 00:18:22.240 we collect more and more data, we'll be able to tune and tweak our 208 00:18:22.279 --> 00:18:27.720 machine learning models to find truly abnormal things in the sky. So at some 209 00:18:27.799 --> 00:18:32.960 point there will be a human in the loop to analyze some of the anomalist 210 00:18:33.000 --> 00:18:36.960 stuff that we see. That that's exactly what we want. The machine learning 211 00:18:37.000 --> 00:18:41.599 is going to help us filter out all the video that we can't go through 212 00:18:41.200 --> 00:18:45.880 because if we have hundreds or thousands of trackers, there's just not enough time 213 00:18:45.920 --> 00:18:52.960 to analyze all that video. So we were taking advantage of AI to help 214 00:18:52.039 --> 00:19:00.480 save us time and be more efficient at finding anomalists activity is are you finding? 215 00:19:00.640 --> 00:19:07.599 Is that machine learning? I mean does it accidentally? Does it screw 216 00:19:07.680 --> 00:19:15.160 up? I guess yeah, it does absolutely So depending on what machine learning 217 00:19:15.160 --> 00:19:18.880 model you use, you might hit like seventy percent accuracy on labeling an object 218 00:19:19.000 --> 00:19:23.839 correctly with some of those machine learning models, up to a ninety percent accuracy. 219 00:19:25.440 --> 00:19:30.119 And training machine learning models isn't one of my expertises. I have done 220 00:19:30.119 --> 00:19:37.160 it in the past, but it really is based on your network topology and 221 00:19:37.200 --> 00:19:41.559 your training data set. So the quality of the training data set really dictates 222 00:19:41.240 --> 00:19:45.640 how accurate you're going to be. So it's kind of a balancing game between 223 00:19:45.119 --> 00:19:52.200 the size of your model, the performance, and the accuracy. So it's 224 00:19:52.240 --> 00:19:56.000 going to be something well, you know, if you're a machine learning expert, 225 00:19:56.079 --> 00:20:00.160 jump into the project, come help us train models. You know, 226 00:20:00.200 --> 00:20:06.160 we're definitely looking for expertise around the community to help improve the accuracy of our 227 00:20:06.200 --> 00:20:15.160 system. Now, uh, I guess one of the things is there like 228 00:20:15.200 --> 00:20:18.119 a threshold when it gives you does it have like a confidence level when it 229 00:20:18.240 --> 00:20:25.359 labels things? You know that it's pretty certain that this is a plane or 230 00:20:25.559 --> 00:20:30.000 you know it, there's a thirty percent chances is a plane. Does it 231 00:20:30.000 --> 00:20:33.839 give that sort of thing, Yes, it does. So generally it'll give 232 00:20:33.839 --> 00:20:40.279 you four or five probabilities on what object it is. So I might say 233 00:20:40.680 --> 00:20:44.640 there's an eighty two percent chance this is an airplane, in a seventeen percent 234 00:20:44.720 --> 00:20:48.880 chance this is a bird. Generally it's correct in the Let you take the 235 00:20:48.960 --> 00:20:55.039 highest probability and use that to actually tag and label the image. But the 236 00:20:55.039 --> 00:21:00.559 benefit of that is so one thing I love about sky hub because it's not 237 00:21:00.599 --> 00:21:07.400 all about UFOs we're collecting data on you could potentially use it for bird migration 238 00:21:07.279 --> 00:21:14.119 or tracking aircraft or planes. Because if you can identify all these known objects 239 00:21:14.160 --> 00:21:18.720 such as comets or helicopters or drones, you could really make a valuable data 240 00:21:18.759 --> 00:21:22.519 set for lots of different things and lots of different research that people would be 241 00:21:22.519 --> 00:21:29.680 interested in. Right. That's what uh go ahead. That's what's gotten me 242 00:21:29.759 --> 00:21:33.680 excited about other projects and why I'm so excited for these projects to launch. 243 00:21:33.720 --> 00:21:38.880 Of course, it's very interesting to capture unidentified objects, but that's far and 244 00:21:38.880 --> 00:21:45.680 few between. But other rare natural occurrences, there's a lot of potential. 245 00:21:45.839 --> 00:21:52.680 There also and there's a lot of learning that can happen. It seems like 246 00:21:52.759 --> 00:21:56.960 from the deployment of objects of equipment like this in that, you know, 247 00:21:57.000 --> 00:22:02.400 we can learn so much more about our natural environment. Oh, definitely, 248 00:22:03.319 --> 00:22:07.240 definitely. And one of the there's a project called pressure net. I don't 249 00:22:07.279 --> 00:22:11.319 know if you're familiar with it. I might be mistaken. I think it 250 00:22:11.359 --> 00:22:17.599 was run by Stanford University. Someone will probably correct me after this, but 251 00:22:17.960 --> 00:22:23.079 essentially they made a mobile app that ran on phones and it read the air 252 00:22:23.119 --> 00:22:29.440 pressure from your phone, so it just grabbed the barometric pressure and return that 253 00:22:29.519 --> 00:22:33.640 data back to a central server in California. So they have thousands of people 254 00:22:33.920 --> 00:22:41.559 returning barometric readings to a central database, which helps with weather prediction and understanding 255 00:22:41.640 --> 00:22:48.359 how pressure truly is changing across the globe. And we'll be able to do 256 00:22:48.400 --> 00:22:53.920 things like that. We'll be able to measure all these different atmospheric readings and 257 00:22:55.759 --> 00:23:00.599 provide a central database where people can do analysis and research and potentially, you 258 00:23:00.599 --> 00:23:06.319 know, get better at detecting earthquakes or you know, weather events or pressure 259 00:23:06.480 --> 00:23:11.519 temperature. So you know, if you ask a scientist or researcher what he 260 00:23:11.599 --> 00:23:15.319 wants, he wants money and he wants data and we can at least help 261 00:23:15.319 --> 00:23:21.079 with one of those things. M right, potentially the most important part because 262 00:23:21.119 --> 00:23:25.359 usually the money, well, it funds the capturing of data, which can 263 00:23:25.400 --> 00:23:30.240 be really expensive, which has been kind of the gatekeeper for the most part, 264 00:23:30.319 --> 00:23:34.599 I think in this community and why we've had to rely on such poor 265 00:23:34.720 --> 00:23:42.039 data because getting good data on projects such as yours historically has been very expensive, 266 00:23:42.200 --> 00:23:49.200 and even now it's relatively expensive, Like the average person would probably hurt 267 00:23:49.200 --> 00:23:53.640 their pocket book a bit to dive in and try to build one of these 268 00:23:53.720 --> 00:23:57.960 themselves, right, and you know, we've really tried to focus on that. 269 00:23:59.519 --> 00:24:04.720 So for about three hundred dollars, you can launch a bare minimum tracker 270 00:24:06.359 --> 00:24:10.799 that will watch the sky's twenty four to seven. And you know, it's 271 00:24:10.799 --> 00:24:15.559 not super cheap, but it's affordable for a lot of people, especially people 272 00:24:15.559 --> 00:24:18.839 that are interested in the topic. You know, three hundred dollars isn't too 273 00:24:18.839 --> 00:24:22.519 bad, and we really wanted to try to make this as accessible as possible. 274 00:24:25.160 --> 00:24:30.839 But on the higher end, you can literally go spy spend thousands of 275 00:24:30.920 --> 00:24:36.160 dollars on a single camera. So you know, if if someone has the 276 00:24:36.680 --> 00:24:41.480 funds and access to the equipment. They can set up a very sophisticated sky 277 00:24:41.599 --> 00:24:45.079 Hub tracker and we'll support that. So we so cool. Yeah, we've 278 00:24:45.119 --> 00:24:49.960 really tried to captivate a large audience. We really like to get as many 279 00:24:51.000 --> 00:24:56.359 people deploying these as possible, and cost is a big deal. Unfortunately, 280 00:24:56.759 --> 00:25:02.440 computers keep getting cheaper and cheaper, and Nvidio has released a Jetson platform that 281 00:25:03.119 --> 00:25:07.599 is designed for AI and machine learning, and that's what we're basing the skyhubtracker 282 00:25:07.640 --> 00:25:14.559 on is an Nvidia platform that's used for UAVs and self driving cars and things 283 00:25:14.640 --> 00:25:19.960 like that. When it comes to the thresholds we talked about earlier on you 284 00:25:21.000 --> 00:25:27.799 know, tagging unidentified, I guess what are those kind of malleable? Are 285 00:25:27.799 --> 00:25:32.839 those things that you're working on constantly? And like if I was to have 286 00:25:32.920 --> 00:25:37.599 my own unit, what I kind of set those parameters myself, So for 287 00:25:37.680 --> 00:25:41.319 instance, you know, I want to identify anything that has under a fifty 288 00:25:41.359 --> 00:25:48.839 percent confidence level and identification as something I want to review. So we kind 289 00:25:48.880 --> 00:25:52.359 of set a baseline for the whole network. So the plan is to deploy 290 00:25:53.160 --> 00:25:59.079 the same configuration to all the trackers. You really want to collect data in 291 00:25:59.119 --> 00:26:02.720 the same way you kind of have a control if you want, like a 292 00:26:02.880 --> 00:26:07.319 valid, consistent data set, So those those features and vectors that we're tracking 293 00:26:07.519 --> 00:26:14.200 will be controlled as a community. So basically we'll push out that configuration configuration 294 00:26:14.240 --> 00:26:18.200 to everyone. But long term, as we start getting more data, we 295 00:26:18.759 --> 00:26:25.240 actually want people to volunteer and help identify and label objects. So what we'll 296 00:26:25.279 --> 00:26:29.440 plan on doing, and this is probably something that will happen hopefully in the 297 00:26:29.480 --> 00:26:33.720 next year or so, we'll have a database of images and videos that people 298 00:26:33.720 --> 00:26:38.680 can go through and help us label and identify. So that's how Google and 299 00:26:38.799 --> 00:26:44.640 Facebook and Amazon have done it. They've used humans to train these data sets, 300 00:26:44.799 --> 00:26:48.079 because I mean, that's what you have to do. You have to 301 00:26:48.160 --> 00:26:52.119 use humans to go generate a data set to at least get started with the 302 00:26:52.200 --> 00:26:57.319 automatic detection. So in time, we'll have a platform where users can come 303 00:26:57.359 --> 00:27:06.519 in and help identify objects that we can't classify, and hopefully we'll get to 304 00:27:06.519 --> 00:27:11.720 the point where we can identify most known things and some anomaloust things. And 305 00:27:11.119 --> 00:27:15.359 I think it just makes the data that much better, especially to get people 306 00:27:15.400 --> 00:27:19.240 involved to help you build that data set in that knowledge base that you need 307 00:27:19.279 --> 00:27:26.359 for machine learning. Yeah, that's exciting now with the Scientific Coalition of Eupology. 308 00:27:26.440 --> 00:27:29.960 Some of them aren't have been in UFO Data or I should say Scientific 309 00:27:30.000 --> 00:27:34.000 Coalition for UAP Research, the name changed an organization now that you all have 310 00:27:34.079 --> 00:27:38.359 partnered with the group that I was there with beginning, and I work with 311 00:27:38.480 --> 00:27:44.680 quite a bit and one of the few groups of people trying to gather data 312 00:27:44.680 --> 00:27:49.000 and new science to investigate this field. One of those people is Robert Powell, 313 00:27:49.400 --> 00:27:52.680 who I also work with that mofin he was a functional director who was 314 00:27:52.720 --> 00:27:59.359 in charge of the scientific Advisory Board there and so in looking at the data, 315 00:27:59.359 --> 00:28:03.400 which Robert and I both have kind of a passion for, one of 316 00:28:03.440 --> 00:28:07.559 the struggles has always been Moffon collects a lot of reports and there are a 317 00:28:07.599 --> 00:28:15.160 lot of especially media and some others who try to distill something from those reports. 318 00:28:15.200 --> 00:28:19.079 But one of the problems that we have we found early on Robert and 319 00:28:19.119 --> 00:28:23.079 I and I always identify is that it's really poor data. I mean, 320 00:28:23.559 --> 00:28:30.920 really you have untrained observers looking at things. I think that you know, 321 00:28:32.359 --> 00:28:37.880 for instance, in Arizona that who has They've got a really really great chief 322 00:28:37.920 --> 00:28:45.559 investigator there and they come up with about three perns so the vast ninety percent 323 00:28:45.559 --> 00:28:49.000 of sightings are something that are misidentified, and that's so the data is really 324 00:28:49.079 --> 00:28:56.200 really dirty essentially, whereas something like this is much more clean and you have 325 00:28:56.240 --> 00:29:02.559 a lot more information that comes along with that data. It seems to me, 326 00:29:02.720 --> 00:29:07.640 even though we have these thousands of reports that organizations like move On collects, 327 00:29:07.960 --> 00:29:15.160 there's limited value to that data scientifically, And so the data you're collecting, 328 00:29:15.200 --> 00:29:18.920 although it may appear and some people feel like, oh, we have 329 00:29:18.000 --> 00:29:22.519 so much data, we can tell so much about UFOs, the reality is 330 00:29:22.839 --> 00:29:30.279 we have very little good, clean data as of this moment in time. 331 00:29:30.440 --> 00:29:36.000 Would you agree with that? Yeah, it's really tough. I mean it's 332 00:29:36.440 --> 00:29:41.400 hard to get. Like if you're an investigator and you're going out to see 333 00:29:41.400 --> 00:29:45.920 someone that has the UFO siding and you fill out a report, you know, 334 00:29:45.519 --> 00:29:49.480 the report itself could bias the person based on the questions that you ask 335 00:29:49.559 --> 00:29:56.319 them. Maybe they remember details different than how they actually happened. So it's 336 00:29:56.359 --> 00:30:00.640 really a difficult problem. And also the person feel out the report for them, 337 00:30:00.880 --> 00:30:07.359 Like, you have all these different factors that make it difficult to study. 338 00:30:07.079 --> 00:30:11.680 It's I'm not saying it's not studiable, but kind of removing the human 339 00:30:11.720 --> 00:30:21.200 element is useful because your perception might is much different than than a piece of 340 00:30:21.240 --> 00:30:26.559 equipment. So so why we use very specific, fine tuned pieces of equipment 341 00:30:26.680 --> 00:30:30.920 for studying, you know, quantum particles, that's what you use. Why 342 00:30:30.920 --> 00:30:34.640 we use them in physics. They're very specific for you know, a very 343 00:30:34.759 --> 00:30:40.640 narrow focus. That's kind of what what our aim is. We're going to 344 00:30:40.640 --> 00:30:45.920 collect very specific things in a very consistent manner and and do that on a 345 00:30:45.960 --> 00:30:52.440 global scale. MD. It's just gonna say that's why these projects are so 346 00:30:52.559 --> 00:30:56.519 exacting, because I mean, I think there's been at least for the folks 347 00:30:56.519 --> 00:31:00.440 in SEU and and those of us looking for better in our data to figure 348 00:31:00.519 --> 00:31:06.640 things out on it's exciting to have these projects. That's why so many of 349 00:31:06.720 --> 00:31:11.480 us have been so excited about UFO data or some of these other organizations and 350 00:31:11.759 --> 00:31:15.880 so let down that really none of them have got off the ground unfortunately. 351 00:31:15.920 --> 00:31:22.839 Although on the same note, at least acide there. I shouldn't say there's 352 00:31:22.000 --> 00:31:27.480 no value to that data that an organization like MOFON is gathering, because what 353 00:31:27.599 --> 00:31:34.359 is interesting is I think you can which does help trend how humans react. 354 00:31:34.680 --> 00:31:41.519 I mean that's really what you're you're looking at is what prompts humans to report 355 00:31:41.000 --> 00:31:47.279 sidings? What are they reporting? And it's kind of that social factor which 356 00:31:47.319 --> 00:31:52.359 can help with scientific data. For instance, you know how many UFO sidings 357 00:31:52.880 --> 00:31:57.119 are there? You know increases there when the latest season of Unidentified is out 358 00:31:57.720 --> 00:32:01.039 because I found you know, certainly these TV shows that are very impactful for 359 00:32:01.200 --> 00:32:08.039 like that even chan aliens they drive a lot or UFO reports. The interesting 360 00:32:08.119 --> 00:32:14.720 thing about the personal sightings to get reported. So I would love to see 361 00:32:15.319 --> 00:32:20.039 when sky Hub starts getting deployed in more areas, if someone has a sighting, 362 00:32:20.640 --> 00:32:24.519 if you can actually correlate that siding with an event in the sky Hub 363 00:32:24.559 --> 00:32:29.920 network. So I think when you're able to do that kind of correlation on 364 00:32:30.000 --> 00:32:36.720 reporting where you take witness testimony and correlate that with what is collected on a 365 00:32:36.720 --> 00:32:38.920 sky Hub tracker, I think it gets even more interesting. Right, so 366 00:32:38.960 --> 00:32:44.680 you have something saw something and a tracker caught it with a sensor array, 367 00:32:45.119 --> 00:32:51.079 I think the data set gets that much more interesting. Truly, you can 368 00:32:51.119 --> 00:32:57.559 start, you know, studying different aspects of the phenomenon. M So I 369 00:32:57.599 --> 00:33:00.559 want to kind of transition also over in to some of the latest news and 370 00:33:00.640 --> 00:33:04.680 some of the Navy and all of this sort of thing. One of the 371 00:33:04.680 --> 00:33:07.920 things that I've been finding and the kind of thinking of quite a bit lately 372 00:33:07.079 --> 00:33:14.039 is, and I'd love your input on this, is intelligence work is fairly 373 00:33:14.200 --> 00:33:20.920 similar to journalism, and in that, for instance, the reports I write 374 00:33:20.920 --> 00:33:24.839 for Open Minds, if I were to be doing this for an intelligence agency, 375 00:33:24.920 --> 00:33:30.559 essentially writing a report of a summary of a situation, it'd be fairly 376 00:33:30.599 --> 00:33:34.519 similar, especially if you're doing a good job as a journalist where you're citing 377 00:33:34.519 --> 00:33:40.960 your sources and your you know, not filling it with opinion or bias. 378 00:33:42.640 --> 00:33:46.319 So you have good intelligence, right, I mean, does that ring true? 379 00:33:46.640 --> 00:33:51.519 I think so. I mean, when you're researching anything, you follow 380 00:33:51.599 --> 00:33:54.119 the data. I mean, you basically have leads that you try to verify 381 00:33:54.240 --> 00:34:00.640 and that and you have to establish a good foundation for making claims in an 382 00:34:00.640 --> 00:34:06.519 anything you do, whether it be intelligence work or science or journalism. I 383 00:34:06.519 --> 00:34:12.199 think generally you have to have a strong foundation of data in facts to support 384 00:34:12.239 --> 00:34:16.480 anything. Mm hmm. So when it comes to then the videos that we've 385 00:34:16.480 --> 00:34:20.440 gotten out of the Navy, of course, to the Stars is released, 386 00:34:20.840 --> 00:34:28.480 there's a bit of limited value to that data, but part of it is 387 00:34:28.960 --> 00:34:32.519 due to it seems like there's probably a lot of telemetry that was gathered that 388 00:34:32.559 --> 00:34:38.760 we aren't privy too besides just the video. You know, it's possible. 389 00:34:40.039 --> 00:34:45.599 I really don't know. So the tough thing about this is we're working off 390 00:34:45.639 --> 00:34:52.119 limited evidence. So I've talked to a bunch of the guys from the Knimts. 391 00:34:52.880 --> 00:34:58.400 It's a very compelling story and it's actually one of the stories that piqued 392 00:34:58.400 --> 00:35:04.079 my interest to start getting more into UFOs. But if you actually look at 393 00:35:04.119 --> 00:35:09.599 it from a scientific perspective, what is publicly available, it's it's not that 394 00:35:09.920 --> 00:35:15.519 useful, So we need more data. So I think it's very unlikely. 395 00:35:16.360 --> 00:35:21.119 I don't know this. I think it's very unlikely we'll ever see that data 396 00:35:22.960 --> 00:35:28.880 for it to become declassified. I think it's really unlikely. I think ultimately, 397 00:35:28.920 --> 00:35:32.840 if we want to see data on UFOs, the public has to go 398 00:35:32.840 --> 00:35:42.840 get it themselves unless there's more transparency. But I just don't see collection systems 399 00:35:42.920 --> 00:35:50.119 or intelligence systems being made available to the public. And beyond that, I 400 00:35:50.159 --> 00:35:55.480 mean in your estimation, and of course your guess, but it's an educated 401 00:35:55.519 --> 00:36:01.880 guess. I mean with your background. The Navy says they take this stuff 402 00:36:02.000 --> 00:36:07.239 seriously, but how seriously do you think they take it? So do you 403 00:36:07.280 --> 00:36:10.280 think that they would dedicate resources? It seems like it would be worthwhile. 404 00:36:10.440 --> 00:36:16.760 So, for instance, in the in situation, perhaps a wiser protocol would 405 00:36:16.800 --> 00:36:23.239 be, if you're witnessing unidentified objects, you know it's on radar, that 406 00:36:23.320 --> 00:36:28.480 you record that, and that you have some sort of protocol to record that 407 00:36:28.599 --> 00:36:34.519 information so that it can be analyzed later to figure out whether it's an error 408 00:36:34.800 --> 00:36:42.400 into STEM or some other because it certainly affects the safety of you know, 409 00:36:42.559 --> 00:36:47.679 your guys out there doing training in the area and your ability to identify pottles. 410 00:36:47.719 --> 00:36:51.280 I mean if that was that was a training situation, but if it 411 00:36:51.320 --> 00:36:59.000 was a live, you know, battlefield type of situation, then those unidentified 412 00:36:59.119 --> 00:37:05.519 could cause a lot of Oh definitely purely from like a defense perspective, to 413 00:37:05.559 --> 00:37:10.039 have an aircraft of any kind get close to a battle group or any navy 414 00:37:10.119 --> 00:37:15.079 vessel is a big deal. So I mean, consider if something got within 415 00:37:15.199 --> 00:37:19.239 firing range to a naval carrier, that's a really big deal. You don't 416 00:37:19.280 --> 00:37:24.679 want that to happen. So even ignoring that they're unidentified, you can't let 417 00:37:24.679 --> 00:37:30.440 that happen. So you can't have some sophisticated aircraft get close to any any 418 00:37:30.599 --> 00:37:36.320 military asset. It's a big risk. It's it's really I mean, if 419 00:37:36.320 --> 00:37:38.880 you want to maintain a national security mission, you have to stay on top 420 00:37:38.920 --> 00:37:44.159 of this kind of stuff and be able to identify and mitigate potential risks. 421 00:37:44.760 --> 00:37:47.039 So yeah, I think there's a lot of risk to having and that's what 422 00:37:47.119 --> 00:37:52.639 it's really about, mitigating risk. So if you want to mitigate that risk, 423 00:37:52.719 --> 00:37:55.800 you need to understand what you're dealing with. And I'm not sure we 424 00:37:55.880 --> 00:38:00.840 fully understand what we're dealing with. And I think that they videos is a 425 00:38:00.880 --> 00:38:05.320 perfect example. So you have a lot of very compelling witness testimony from a 426 00:38:05.400 --> 00:38:13.119 number of people, and then a couple of videos that shows something like completely 427 00:38:13.239 --> 00:38:17.599 unknown. We have not done well to explain it. So yeah, I 428 00:38:17.599 --> 00:38:22.840 think it poses a big problem, especially when you you know, hear things 429 00:38:22.840 --> 00:38:27.320 that David Fraber said in his initial thoughts were the things from out of this 430 00:38:27.360 --> 00:38:32.840 world and interacting with a sophisticated aircraft. So it does seem problematic that we 431 00:38:32.920 --> 00:38:38.599 haven't quite at least publicly figured out what it is. And I think people 432 00:38:38.599 --> 00:38:45.400 should push very hard to to make the government accountable and to be about this. 433 00:38:45.760 --> 00:38:52.840 And it seems like perhaps there was some analysis done in that allegedly you 434 00:38:52.880 --> 00:38:59.800 know, RDAR data, video data was acquired and taken away by some some 435 00:39:00.440 --> 00:39:06.039 and then potentially examined, but it was reactionary. It was after the fact, 436 00:39:06.440 --> 00:39:12.800 and so whatever they were able to obtain, you know, was not 437 00:39:13.039 --> 00:39:17.000 intentional. It was happenstance that you know, someone like Kevin Day paid attention. 438 00:39:17.079 --> 00:39:21.239 If he would have just really blown it off, then they wouldn't have 439 00:39:21.239 --> 00:39:24.480 had anything to gather and jets wouldn't have been scrambled. So it doesn't seem 440 00:39:24.559 --> 00:39:34.360 as as big of an issue or something they're paying it to as much at 441 00:39:34.400 --> 00:39:37.800 that time and potentially not now. It was more like, well, if 442 00:39:37.840 --> 00:39:39.480 something happens, we'll take a look at it, but we're not going to 443 00:39:39.519 --> 00:39:45.400 actively try investigating these things or gather data, at least at the NIM even 444 00:39:45.440 --> 00:39:49.880 in Roosevelt, I think it. I think we heard similar sort of things 445 00:39:50.280 --> 00:39:54.360 and that kind of alludes to that, although well, the idea that they 446 00:39:54.400 --> 00:40:00.760 haven't been really taking it that seriously and perhaps because of that boo and it 447 00:40:00.840 --> 00:40:06.440 sounds counterintuitive. I think that people, especially the more conspiracy minded that you 448 00:40:06.480 --> 00:40:08.519 know, of course they're doing everything. There's there's all this you know, 449 00:40:08.639 --> 00:40:13.119 research and secret stuff going on. Well we didn't really see that. We 450 00:40:13.199 --> 00:40:16.880 haven't seen that in military cases. What we've seen is more of a reactionary 451 00:40:16.920 --> 00:40:22.039 type of stant where sure, maybe after the fact they'll take it seriously, 452 00:40:22.079 --> 00:40:27.239 but before the fact, it's not really something people are thinking about and even 453 00:40:27.280 --> 00:40:31.800 avoiding. So it's kind of interesting. So I'm not real up to date 454 00:40:31.880 --> 00:40:36.920 on UFO history, but I have a Project Blue Books, so there are 455 00:40:37.000 --> 00:40:43.840 times where we have taken UFO seriously. And I was shocked that when Louel 456 00:40:43.880 --> 00:40:50.480 Azando came out publicly that there was actually a program studying unidentified aircrafts. So, 457 00:40:51.280 --> 00:40:55.960 I mean there has been programs running. Who knows, Like the the 458 00:40:57.039 --> 00:41:00.599 classified world is is very stovepiped, so for all we know, there could 459 00:41:00.599 --> 00:41:07.440 be programs we know of at least a tip and asapp and potentially more might 460 00:41:07.480 --> 00:41:14.159 be known in the future. So it's really hard to know how long this 461 00:41:14.199 --> 00:41:20.039 has actually gone on inside the government and classified programs, But unfortunately we have 462 00:41:20.079 --> 00:41:22.199 to stick with the facts. We at least know that a tip and asap 463 00:41:22.559 --> 00:41:28.719 OSAP existed, so there seems to be interest. Internally, it doesn't seem 464 00:41:28.760 --> 00:41:31.440 to be a lot of interest. I know some of the numbers were thrown 465 00:41:31.440 --> 00:41:36.639 out, like twenty two million dollars were spent. I'm not sure they spent 466 00:41:36.719 --> 00:41:40.880 more than that, but from a defense budget perspective, that's super low. 467 00:41:42.239 --> 00:41:46.599 That's that's now much so, and we may find out in the future that 468 00:41:46.639 --> 00:41:54.400 there is more more ongoing. I do believe that the intelligence community and the 469 00:41:54.480 --> 00:41:59.320 d OD is actually taking this more serious now, and I think the Senate 470 00:41:59.360 --> 00:42:07.239 Intelligence Committee report is evidence of that. So there's politicians and legislators that are 471 00:42:07.119 --> 00:42:10.719 they they might have been baffled, you know, over the last two years 472 00:42:10.760 --> 00:42:16.480 finding out there are truly unidentified objects flying around m HM. And that brings 473 00:42:16.559 --> 00:42:22.960 us to that Senate Intelligence Committee, which is really interesting because another part of 474 00:42:23.079 --> 00:42:30.480 your use of AI, and you mentioned this in your introduction, is the 475 00:42:30.599 --> 00:42:36.039 use of you know, scrubbing the net to look for information and for documents, 476 00:42:36.639 --> 00:42:40.559 And so maybe you could share how did you come across this mention of 477 00:42:40.599 --> 00:42:49.000 this UAP report request that the Senate Intelligence Committee was making. So this is 478 00:42:49.000 --> 00:42:52.920 actually kind of funny. It was a total accident. This was not intentional 479 00:42:52.960 --> 00:42:58.679 at all. So I rarely, very rarely look for documents. I happen 480 00:42:58.719 --> 00:43:02.719 to be on youv info dot com and I searched for UFO and a couple 481 00:43:02.760 --> 00:43:07.400 of documents popped up, nothing related to UFO, So I was like, 482 00:43:07.440 --> 00:43:09.320 well, I'll search you AP. Nothing showed up, so I was like, 483 00:43:09.360 --> 00:43:14.639 well, I'll type out the full phrase. I searched Unidentified Aerial Phenomenon 484 00:43:14.760 --> 00:43:19.280 and I was like, they published a new document four days ago. So 485 00:43:19.360 --> 00:43:22.320 I opened it up and I read the whole thing. And I have a 486 00:43:22.320 --> 00:43:25.400 private chat with a couple guys from sky Hub and shared it in there and 487 00:43:25.440 --> 00:43:31.119 I was like, have you guys seen this? Like they actually proposed UAP 488 00:43:31.320 --> 00:43:38.599 task Force. So I read the document, I went to work, so 489 00:43:38.800 --> 00:43:43.239 like eight or nine hours later, I ended up posting it to Twitter because 490 00:43:43.760 --> 00:43:45.119 you know, I was wondering, like why am I not hearing about this? 491 00:43:45.760 --> 00:43:51.360 Yeah, so I went and posted it and it kind of exploded from 492 00:43:51.360 --> 00:43:54.159 there, and yeah, that's sort of how it happened. It was a 493 00:43:54.159 --> 00:43:59.760 complete accident. I just happened to search the right phrase on the right day. 494 00:44:00.760 --> 00:44:04.719 So and it's sort of interesting, and I really I think I dropped 495 00:44:04.760 --> 00:44:07.719 the ball in asking this, and hopefully I'll be able to get this answer 496 00:44:07.079 --> 00:44:15.199 soon. I would assume that Chris Mellen knew Chris Mellen with a tip or 497 00:44:15.239 --> 00:44:17.119 with to the Stars Academy, and he's the guy who you know, used 498 00:44:17.119 --> 00:44:22.239 to work for the Senate Intelligence Committee, has done a lot of work in 499 00:44:22.280 --> 00:44:28.199 the government. He's on unidentified He essentially was lobbying that to Senate Intelligence Committee 500 00:44:28.239 --> 00:44:32.280 do this, and it happened the only person really actively lobbying for this as 501 00:44:32.320 --> 00:44:37.400 far as I know of, even coming up with verbiage and obviously had quite 502 00:44:37.440 --> 00:44:44.360 an effect my opinion. They knew it was coming, So when I posted 503 00:44:44.440 --> 00:44:50.119 on Twitter, I think Chris Mellan missed my original tweet of that article. 504 00:44:51.039 --> 00:44:54.920 Later that day, he made a tweet that I responded with something along the 505 00:44:54.960 --> 00:45:00.920 lines, is that why we're seeing you know a you know, basically UAP 506 00:45:00.159 --> 00:45:06.599 task Force verbiage in the Senate Intelligence Committee report, and then he responded with 507 00:45:06.760 --> 00:45:12.559 more to coom dot dot dot. Within hours, TTSA was pumping out press 508 00:45:12.599 --> 00:45:17.559 releases and blog articles covering that document. I think they knew it was coming, 509 00:45:19.440 --> 00:45:22.760 they just didn't know when. And I think it just went unnoticed by 510 00:45:22.800 --> 00:45:27.039 everybody. Yeah, I mean the other possibility is they knew, they just 511 00:45:27.119 --> 00:45:32.280 wanted to keep it under wraps, which would probably be wise too until it 512 00:45:32.400 --> 00:45:40.480 passed, because certainly the circus has come to town and it's your fault actually 513 00:45:40.519 --> 00:45:45.599 partially, And maybe the New York Times might have been wanting to reveal this 514 00:45:45.760 --> 00:45:51.960 themselves. They maybe had going to get the scoop but just didn't get the 515 00:45:52.000 --> 00:45:54.800 scoop actually because of you. Brian Bender with Politico got the scoop as far 516 00:45:54.800 --> 00:46:02.599 as mainstream media. But it's interesting that it was kept so secretive and so 517 00:46:02.840 --> 00:46:07.639 quiet until you ran across it and really blew things up. Yeah. I 518 00:46:07.880 --> 00:46:14.480 was sort of amazed about it, because you know, I'm not a journalist. 519 00:46:13.880 --> 00:46:16.320 I read the article and I was like, wow, this is pretty 520 00:46:16.320 --> 00:46:21.519 groundbreaking. But I didn't really think to say, hey, I should probably 521 00:46:21.559 --> 00:46:24.800 send this to a journalist, Like it just didn't cross my mind. I 522 00:46:24.880 --> 00:46:29.880 was just fascinated by the article after I read it. But you know, 523 00:46:30.079 --> 00:46:34.840 one of the reasons I shared it is because I wanted to get other people's 524 00:46:34.880 --> 00:46:37.480 analysis, and there was a lot of really great articles about it, and 525 00:46:37.679 --> 00:46:45.000 MJ and Tim and others put out great great coverage of that article of the 526 00:46:45.079 --> 00:46:49.159 report, and even Adam Kehoe has put out some really great interpretations of some 527 00:46:49.199 --> 00:46:52.719 of the verbiage in there. Mm hm. So I guess I was a 528 00:46:52.719 --> 00:46:55.400 little selfish and sharing it with everybody. I just wanted to see what they 529 00:46:55.440 --> 00:46:59.360 had to say about it. No, I think it's great. I think 530 00:46:59.400 --> 00:47:05.480 everybody is really appreciative that you did that, and I think it's great. 531 00:47:05.519 --> 00:47:07.760 I mean, really, it's yours to share. You're the one who found 532 00:47:07.840 --> 00:47:14.679 it so funny that you had just run across it in that manner, not 533 00:47:14.840 --> 00:47:21.480 using AI, using bi brain intelligence. You know, it's funny because I'd 534 00:47:21.519 --> 00:47:27.440 never been to gov info dot com before and I just happened to happen to 535 00:47:27.519 --> 00:47:30.880 navigate there, and I was like, oh great, here's a place where 536 00:47:30.880 --> 00:47:36.719 they actually digitize documents from the Federal Register and from Congress. So I started 537 00:47:36.719 --> 00:47:42.239 searching for documents there and I just got lucky, Yeah, well done, 538 00:47:42.280 --> 00:47:49.199 Because I mean it's a huge it really is a huge game changer. And 539 00:47:49.239 --> 00:47:55.039 I think that the impacts of the significance of the Senate asking for this information 540 00:47:55.119 --> 00:48:00.559 and then the manner in which they did, and even Chris Mellen's influence and 541 00:48:00.679 --> 00:48:07.960 participation is a much bigger story than what we've seen thus far. And you 542 00:48:07.000 --> 00:48:10.360 know, I guess that brings us too. I think Brian Bender did a 543 00:48:10.400 --> 00:48:15.480 pretty good job and just sticking with the facts and he puts them. He 544 00:48:15.519 --> 00:48:20.159 got a hold of Chris Mellon and got some responses from him on all of 545 00:48:20.199 --> 00:48:23.559 this, but like maybe even very quickly, like the day after you posted 546 00:48:23.760 --> 00:48:29.360 or something like that, very soon after. But it brings us to the 547 00:48:29.400 --> 00:48:32.320 New York Times story on this, which was really weird. I mean, 548 00:48:32.519 --> 00:48:37.559 I have been one of the hugest fans of Leslie Kane for many years. 549 00:48:37.599 --> 00:48:39.440 She's a good friend. I like her a lot, and I've had some 550 00:48:39.480 --> 00:48:44.400 conversation with her in the last couple of weeks. But the article was so 551 00:48:44.599 --> 00:48:52.000 strange, especially in that a lot of paraphrasing without quotes or sourcing, and 552 00:48:52.039 --> 00:48:57.880 then not only that, kind of mudding the waters or at least mixing the 553 00:48:57.960 --> 00:49:01.400 messages, and that, hey, there's this intelligence committee. They're asking for 554 00:49:01.519 --> 00:49:06.800 more information, so we're going to get more information from this task force that 555 00:49:07.000 --> 00:49:13.880 was likely, you know, an a tip, but in a new form. 556 00:49:13.920 --> 00:49:16.880 However, then they throw in this weird stuff about these guys convinced that 557 00:49:16.880 --> 00:49:22.280 there's UFO crashes, and it really kind of muddled muddied things up, and 558 00:49:22.320 --> 00:49:27.280 it was kind of strange. Did you find it odd? Yes? So, 559 00:49:28.280 --> 00:49:30.800 I mean there's a lot of history, as you know, that led 560 00:49:30.880 --> 00:49:36.000 up to the New York Times article. It almost sounds like potentially the article 561 00:49:36.039 --> 00:49:38.480 tipped off a number of people that there was going to be a UFO crash 562 00:49:38.519 --> 00:49:43.920 retiever or were coming out at some point. And it had to do a 563 00:49:44.000 --> 00:49:51.119 lot with the Wilson leaks. So I read those when they initially came out. 564 00:49:51.440 --> 00:49:55.199 I didn't think much of them. There's really no evidence, well, 565 00:49:55.440 --> 00:50:00.199 there's really no good evidence inside those documents. There's lots of claims, a 566 00:50:00.280 --> 00:50:06.800 lot of lots of anecdotal stuff, but not much actionable evidence. Sure you 567 00:50:06.840 --> 00:50:09.360 can vent the sources that are mentioned in the document, but leading up to 568 00:50:09.400 --> 00:50:15.719 the article, it's interesting to see more articles, but you know, through 569 00:50:15.760 --> 00:50:22.280 the retractions and corrections, and I guess it didn't do much for me. 570 00:50:22.400 --> 00:50:29.719 I really want to see more evidence in transparency and hopefully this article will produce 571 00:50:29.800 --> 00:50:34.760 something more. But it was just such a weird chain of events, especially 572 00:50:34.760 --> 00:50:40.320 watching the Twitter community talk about the Wilson Lenks and the UFO Crash Retriever article 573 00:50:40.360 --> 00:50:45.960 that was coming in the article than what I expected. I actually expected no 574 00:50:45.159 --> 00:50:51.280 article. I didn't think anything related was going to happen. But you know, 575 00:50:51.719 --> 00:50:55.840 an article did come out that had a slightly different narrative. M your 576 00:50:55.880 --> 00:51:00.639 thoughts. I thought an article was coming out, but I didn't think it 577 00:51:00.679 --> 00:51:06.480 would contain the Wilson documents and just just quick a nutshell for those who are 578 00:51:06.519 --> 00:51:12.079 not familiar. The Wilson documents are these documents that came out allegedly, and 579 00:51:12.159 --> 00:51:15.920 I think this has been fairly well established from Edgar Mitchell's since he passed away 580 00:51:16.000 --> 00:51:22.079 some of the files that he had. And these allegedly notes from Eric Davis, 581 00:51:22.079 --> 00:51:27.280 a physicist who worked with a tip who is in this New York Times 582 00:51:27.400 --> 00:51:31.760 article saying that he believes and he has briefed the Pentagon on off world, 583 00:51:32.400 --> 00:51:40.119 you know, devices vehicles being captured. But these notes allegedly from Eric Davis 584 00:51:40.440 --> 00:51:44.000 or him meeting with his admiral, and the admiral says, yeah, I 585 00:51:44.039 --> 00:51:46.639 found out about the UFO crash retrieval program. I tried to go in there 586 00:51:46.679 --> 00:51:51.159 and get information. I tried to walk in and say I'm an admiral let 587 00:51:51.199 --> 00:51:54.119 me in and they said, no, I mean, and I'm sorry for 588 00:51:54.199 --> 00:51:57.440 making fun of the notes, but they are silly like that. I mean, 589 00:51:57.480 --> 00:52:00.960 you read the notes and even the interactions really weird and certainly not the 590 00:52:01.000 --> 00:52:04.639 type of thing, maybe the type of thing you'd see even the TV show. 591 00:52:05.159 --> 00:52:07.760 John Greenwald even speculated they read more like a TV show script than they 592 00:52:07.800 --> 00:52:12.400 do real life. And I think that's true. And a lot of people 593 00:52:12.440 --> 00:52:15.119 have talked about how really this is breaking so many protocols and Admiral would be 594 00:52:15.159 --> 00:52:22.239 familiar with. So Eric Davis will not comment on the notes. Admiral Wilson, 595 00:52:22.239 --> 00:52:25.440 who is supposedly the guy who tried to figure this stuff out, says 596 00:52:25.519 --> 00:52:29.360 this never happened. I was never even in Vegas. I haven't been in 597 00:52:29.400 --> 00:52:34.400 Vegas for years, so that they're not true. So that's kind of what 598 00:52:34.440 --> 00:52:37.119 the Wilson documents were. They weren't mentioned in the article, which makes sense 599 00:52:37.159 --> 00:52:40.639 because nobody's fessing up to it. It would have been really weird to mention 600 00:52:40.719 --> 00:52:45.840 it. But even though they did, what they did mention was essentially Eric 601 00:52:45.920 --> 00:52:50.599 Davis's opinions. And I just wrote an article yesterday a follow up to another 602 00:52:50.679 --> 00:52:54.360 one which was essentially based off of Chris Mellen's response, which seems to be 603 00:52:55.159 --> 00:53:01.760 more along the lines of you know, responsible response, which was Eric Davis 604 00:53:02.159 --> 00:53:08.440 gave the Pentagon people at the Pentagon leads so they could potentially confirm this information, 605 00:53:09.000 --> 00:53:12.920 but essentially saying that's all they are is leads, and that's been my 606 00:53:13.039 --> 00:53:15.679 argument, whereas a lot in the UFO community have ran with this is confirmation, 607 00:53:15.760 --> 00:53:21.320 there's UFO crashes. Roswell's real blah blah blah will know you know, 608 00:53:21.519 --> 00:53:23.760 as he told me an Open Mind GFO Radio, which I think is his 609 00:53:23.880 --> 00:53:29.760 longest interview on all of this, he heard from colleagues who knew he was 610 00:53:29.840 --> 00:53:36.119 interested in UFOs, who shared classified information with him, at least information they 611 00:53:36.119 --> 00:53:42.079 felt was classified. That certainly, I would imagine if you're sharing classified information 612 00:53:42.119 --> 00:53:45.880 with someone else who has a clearance, I don't think you're expecting that person 613 00:53:45.920 --> 00:53:50.400 to share that information publicly with the New York Times and so forth, so 614 00:53:51.519 --> 00:53:53.280 or with Open Mind GUFO Radio, which he did, you know, and 615 00:53:53.679 --> 00:54:01.519 essentially so the information is kind of sketchy as hearsay to begin with, But 616 00:54:02.119 --> 00:54:05.480 you know, I did mention this, and I would like your thoughts on 617 00:54:05.519 --> 00:54:08.159 this. I did mention there is a purpose that is served in that at 618 00:54:08.239 --> 00:54:12.920 least Alessando says he's convinced of this. Davis, of course, is convinced 619 00:54:12.920 --> 00:54:19.320 of this. It is signaling I guess from them that we believe there are 620 00:54:19.480 --> 00:54:23.360 UFO crashes or UFO debris that you all have, so we want to hear 621 00:54:23.400 --> 00:54:29.760 about that and these reports that are upcoming, right, So I'm a little 622 00:54:29.760 --> 00:54:35.400 curious. So Alessando has publicly stated I believe that. I think he believes 623 00:54:35.400 --> 00:54:42.360 that we have UFO debris. He told Fox News yes to UFO material Then 624 00:54:42.400 --> 00:54:46.440 Tucker Carlson kind of mentioned UFO debris, but Alexander was talking at the time, 625 00:54:47.840 --> 00:54:52.079 so essentially he says, yes, UFO materials. However, I did 626 00:54:52.119 --> 00:54:55.800 ask. I said, the New York Times is now saying you're convinced there's 627 00:54:55.960 --> 00:55:00.800 UFO crashes and materials, and he said he felt that was He was fine 628 00:55:00.840 --> 00:55:06.039 with that framing. He didn't really tell me, well, where is this 629 00:55:06.159 --> 00:55:07.920 source? Did they interview? Do you directly? He just said he's fine 630 00:55:07.960 --> 00:55:12.400 with that framing, and he didn't really he doesn't like talking about this stuff 631 00:55:12.400 --> 00:55:16.760 that much. So it's so interesting because it's such a huge claim. It 632 00:55:16.840 --> 00:55:22.840 is exactly. It's like a lot of people seem to accept that potentially, 633 00:55:22.119 --> 00:55:27.719 And when we're talking about UFO in this context, we were talking about ET, 634 00:55:28.079 --> 00:55:36.440 right, No, So now Davis believes that and he says he's believed, 635 00:55:36.480 --> 00:55:40.360 but Elesander has been very clear UFO does not equal necessarily equal alien to 636 00:55:40.440 --> 00:55:45.199 him. So I don't think that he's using that term in that context. 637 00:55:45.360 --> 00:55:47.360 I would be he doesn't believe it's Russian or Chinese, but he doesn't know 638 00:55:47.360 --> 00:55:51.239 what it is, right, And I think that's the correct definition. I 639 00:55:51.239 --> 00:55:58.239 can't. I don't think we can assume that UFO equals ET. But if 640 00:55:58.280 --> 00:56:04.159 it's not ET, something else. So it seems like what would that body 641 00:56:04.199 --> 00:56:08.880 of evidence even look like to establish that it's not man made? So there 642 00:56:08.920 --> 00:56:13.599 has to be so much research done, And I've read the papers about arts 643 00:56:13.639 --> 00:56:19.760 parts in some of the material that tts EV TTSA eventually got a hold of, 644 00:56:20.440 --> 00:56:23.800 and I'm just not convinced. I don't think there's enough evidence there to 645 00:56:23.840 --> 00:56:30.280 actually establish that anything that they have is not natural or not man made. 646 00:56:30.760 --> 00:56:38.920 So it's really difficult to really establish that someone has an anomalist like truly unknown 647 00:56:39.159 --> 00:56:45.880 material or piece of equipment. I guess it's possible. But I take the 648 00:56:45.920 --> 00:56:50.679 perspective and that we have to deal with the things that we know. We 649 00:56:50.760 --> 00:56:58.559 have to deal We have to basically progress on data and evidence. Trying to 650 00:56:59.079 --> 00:57:07.119 trying to do search and investigation and scientific analysis on claims is really not useful, 651 00:57:07.079 --> 00:57:14.480 right And yeah, and I mean I've relied on throughout the years. 652 00:57:14.559 --> 00:57:17.599 Chris Cogswell, Now your lead scientists, you know, part of your scientific 653 00:57:17.639 --> 00:57:23.960 advisory board who's been extremely critical of to the Stars and their discussions about these 654 00:57:24.079 --> 00:57:30.119 meta materials or anomalist materials. Although kind of rightfully so, I believe because 655 00:57:30.119 --> 00:57:34.719 he brings up, you know, the challenges that this is not a cake 656 00:57:34.760 --> 00:57:37.000 walk. You can't just walk into the scientific community and say, look what 657 00:57:37.119 --> 00:57:40.000 we found, guys. I mean, if you look at the Mars Rock, 658 00:57:40.079 --> 00:57:45.039 the evidence for you know, life on this Mars rock that even President 659 00:57:45.039 --> 00:57:49.039 Clinton said it looks like we found life, and it's still debated. It's 660 00:57:49.079 --> 00:57:52.639 not a foregone conclusion among all the scientific community that that was not evidence of 661 00:57:52.679 --> 00:57:58.960 life, just not enough proof. And that's the hard part is the the 662 00:57:59.000 --> 00:58:04.519 bar for the evidence that you need is like Chris Mellen says is unidentified. 663 00:58:04.519 --> 00:58:07.079 He says, you know, you need extraordinary claims, require extraordinary evidence. 664 00:58:07.079 --> 00:58:09.480 Of course, he follows that up on the show and says, now we 665 00:58:09.599 --> 00:58:15.079 have that, but as far as UFO crashes or even materials, we don't 666 00:58:15.119 --> 00:58:17.559 have that, and it is something that will have to be scrutinized in the 667 00:58:17.679 --> 00:58:23.280 scientific community before those kind of claims can be made. And I think that's 668 00:58:23.360 --> 00:58:30.880 fair to ask for that, and I think that's really important. So I 669 00:58:30.880 --> 00:58:36.599 guess my question now, if you're an intelligence person, of course, I'm 670 00:58:36.599 --> 00:58:39.320 looking at this from a media perspective, so you know, I'm thinking, 671 00:58:39.719 --> 00:58:47.320 whoa guys, these are you know, unverifiable or unsubstantiated claims that you're making 672 00:58:47.480 --> 00:58:55.800 regarding UFO crashes based on apparently hearsay. However, if you have this opportunity 673 00:58:57.719 --> 00:59:00.079 and it could have been you know, maybe it's not really going to hurt 674 00:59:00.159 --> 00:59:07.800 us so much if we take this opportunity to signal than it that we believe 675 00:59:08.519 --> 00:59:14.320 these materials are or this evidence is out there, so that if it is, 676 00:59:14.360 --> 00:59:17.199 you better include it or you're going to hear from us. That might 677 00:59:17.280 --> 00:59:22.880 be sort of their thinking as to why they would talk to The New York 678 00:59:22.920 --> 00:59:25.559 Times and say these kind of things. That's my gas. Does that seem 679 00:59:25.679 --> 00:59:32.679 like a potentially the case or I mean potentially I mean if you really So, 680 00:59:34.119 --> 00:59:38.119 if you really want to find out and collect intelligence on something, I 681 00:59:38.159 --> 00:59:44.599 mean you basically you're going to perform a huge signals intelligence mission. And that's 682 00:59:44.599 --> 00:59:50.599 what we're doing with sky Hub. We're collecting signals intelligence and collecting data about 683 00:59:50.599 --> 00:59:54.239 it. And that's that's ultimately what you want, right, So data is 684 00:59:54.320 --> 01:00:00.599 the answer, and that's what's going to get people involved. So kind of 685 01:00:00.639 --> 01:00:05.320 the whole premise of this. There's a lot of people involved in ufology that 686 01:00:05.480 --> 01:00:09.400 is doing a lot of research, right, but it seems that a lot 687 01:00:09.440 --> 01:00:15.280 of people aren't using good processes for data. There's some people using science, 688 01:00:15.320 --> 01:00:22.079 and there's some people that think that science can't observe the phenomenon. I reject 689 01:00:22.119 --> 01:00:29.960 that for now. So I think we want scientists involved in the community, 690 01:00:30.000 --> 01:00:36.480 But it seems like sometimes a community makes it so difficult for academics and scientists 691 01:00:36.480 --> 01:00:43.559 to actually do research. There's a lot of fringe ideas in pseudoscience that's involved, 692 01:00:44.079 --> 01:00:47.119 and we need to get over that. So one thing I like to 693 01:00:47.119 --> 01:00:52.960 think is we don't need scientists involved to use the scientific method now. We 694 01:00:52.000 --> 01:00:58.400 are all capable of applying the scientific method and critical thinking to what we're doing 695 01:00:58.400 --> 01:01:01.400 in eufology right now. And I think as a community, we can actually 696 01:01:01.880 --> 01:01:08.800 use better processes and you know, basically methods for acquisitioning knowledge and testing and 697 01:01:09.760 --> 01:01:19.079 using science to build the body of evidence that large researchers and academics will want. 698 01:01:19.760 --> 01:01:25.159 So I think, really we can make it easier for academics to get 699 01:01:25.159 --> 01:01:31.320 involved. And the ANSWER's data, and the answer is applying the scientific method. 700 01:01:32.199 --> 01:01:37.079 And you know, maybe some people are right the scientific method won't work 701 01:01:37.119 --> 01:01:43.719 in this case, but I don't think we've exhausted that. I totally agree, 702 01:01:43.760 --> 01:01:49.039 because I agree with you that scientific method has not been It's rare that 703 01:01:49.079 --> 01:01:55.760 it's been applied fully and rigorously in this field. So I think that still 704 01:01:55.800 --> 01:02:01.000 needs to happen. Some of that happened apps in blue Book, but not 705 01:02:01.119 --> 01:02:07.119 much that I can think of. Some of that happened in the Condon Report, 706 01:02:08.199 --> 01:02:13.800 some of which was revelatory in that it showed some of those things were 707 01:02:13.840 --> 01:02:19.079 true on identified at their best efforts. So I totally agree with you, 708 01:02:20.320 --> 01:02:24.119 and you know it also makes me think scientists want data, but they don't 709 01:02:24.119 --> 01:02:30.000 care where it comes from as long as it's good data, whether that comes 710 01:02:30.039 --> 01:02:35.199 from the Navy or whether it comes from sky Hub, what it's The crux 711 01:02:35.239 --> 01:02:38.840 of the issue is going to be how good is that data? And that's 712 01:02:38.880 --> 01:02:43.440 going to be the key. So and everything's going to be questioned, whether 713 01:02:43.480 --> 01:02:47.639 it comes from the Navy or otherwise. Everything's going to be questioned by the 714 01:02:47.639 --> 01:02:52.480 scientific community. Yep. And I think that's why it's so important to have 715 01:02:52.519 --> 01:02:57.239 people like Chris Cogswell involved. You know, we want to be transparent on 716 01:02:57.280 --> 01:03:00.960 how we collect data with We're going to be transparent about what hardware is used 717 01:03:00.960 --> 01:03:06.159 to collect it, so when a researcher comes along, he knows exactly what 718 01:03:06.280 --> 01:03:14.119 we did to produce that data. So we want to be completely transparent about 719 01:03:14.480 --> 01:03:20.000 every way we're handling the data. So it's important especially when they want to 720 01:03:20.000 --> 01:03:22.039 study it. They need to know air rates, they need to know how 721 01:03:22.079 --> 01:03:25.599 it is collected. So, you know, we want to be able to 722 01:03:25.599 --> 01:03:31.960 provide the best data we possibly can. Mm hmm. It seems like secrecy. 723 01:03:32.000 --> 01:03:37.000 And of course there's the Federation of the FAS. I can't remember their 724 01:03:37.599 --> 01:03:40.360 federation. I don't think it's American scientists. Maybe it is actually, but 725 01:03:40.880 --> 01:03:49.599 essentially it's kind of this battle between when it comes to the military and government 726 01:03:49.719 --> 01:03:55.800 science that's done in secrecy. Science requires transparency, like you're talking about, 727 01:03:57.039 --> 01:04:01.320 so that everything can be verified. And I think it seems like there's these 728 01:04:01.440 --> 01:04:08.320 kind of dangerous echo chambers that can happen in the classified world in that Eric 729 01:04:08.360 --> 01:04:12.599 Davis even told us about the difficulty of getting help. If you have a 730 01:04:12.639 --> 01:04:16.480 classified program, you can't go to a scientist or a mathematician who you need 731 01:04:16.559 --> 01:04:20.360 help from directly. They've got to be read into the program, they need 732 01:04:20.400 --> 01:04:25.519 to be classified. There's this whole procedure before you can even have this person 733 01:04:25.639 --> 01:04:30.320 help you with your project. So it's a very difficult thing. And without 734 01:04:30.440 --> 01:04:32.559 you know, I'm sure when it comes to bureaucracy, there's a tendency then 735 01:04:32.639 --> 01:04:39.639 not to seek outside help or your ability to get outside help is hampered, 736 01:04:40.119 --> 01:04:44.079 So then you probably have and they could be the case. And when we're 737 01:04:44.119 --> 01:04:48.519 talking about these UFO crashes, this echo chamber where these rumors get started or 738 01:04:48.559 --> 01:04:53.760 there's this or that that's going on, these rumors about you know, hey, 739 01:04:53.880 --> 01:05:00.119 project X is created anti gravity or they think they're there onto anti gravity. 740 01:05:00.440 --> 01:05:04.039 But when you have you know, le a small amount of scientists looking 741 01:05:04.079 --> 01:05:10.320 at this who can't have their colleagues verify their data, then it's going to 742 01:05:10.360 --> 01:05:15.119 hamper their ability to actually work on these projects. So it's a hard problem. 743 01:05:15.199 --> 01:05:17.480 So, I mean some of the things I observed over the years, 744 01:05:18.000 --> 01:05:24.719 so things were very stove piped and they basically ran on a need to know 745 01:05:24.920 --> 01:05:31.719 policy, so you knew about the program that you worked in with. After 746 01:05:31.800 --> 01:05:36.280 nine to eleven, they kind of transition to a need to share policy on 747 01:05:36.519 --> 01:05:42.559 intelligence sharing, so you basically share the more openly with the intelligence community to 748 01:05:42.599 --> 01:05:48.039 avoid things like nine to eleven. Well, after Snowden that that definitely shifted 749 01:05:48.079 --> 01:05:57.360 back to a need to know and it actually changed how information is shared significantly 750 01:05:58.639 --> 01:06:03.440 inside the intelligence community. But when you talk about programs like SAPs, it's 751 01:06:03.440 --> 01:06:10.880 a it's a whole different it's a totally different ballgame like they're they're I mean 752 01:06:11.000 --> 01:06:15.960 it's called a special access program. I mean it's very controlled, it's very 753 01:06:15.000 --> 01:06:18.719 limited on who gets to work in those So yeah, I can see how 754 01:06:18.719 --> 01:06:25.559 these things happen where you have a limited number of people and you don't seek 755 01:06:27.079 --> 01:06:30.599 you possibly don't seek the right expertise all the time, and when it comes 756 01:06:30.599 --> 01:06:34.719 to you SAPs, you can't even talk about the program's existence, so you 757 01:06:34.760 --> 01:06:40.320 can't even acknowledge that it exists. So yeah, and I think there's even 758 01:06:40.360 --> 01:06:45.079 more problems with that. So I can see how you know, these stove 759 01:06:45.119 --> 01:06:51.159 pipes and classified programs can kind of get stuck and have very little oversight. 760 01:06:54.320 --> 01:06:58.800 So I it's it's how do you solve that problem? Though you're and they're 761 01:06:58.840 --> 01:07:02.199 not doing nefarius things. These are These are people just like you and I 762 01:07:02.239 --> 01:07:08.079 go into work every day and they're trying to solve national security problems and creating 763 01:07:08.119 --> 01:07:12.039 new technology that they don't want any anyone to know about. What that's the 764 01:07:12.119 --> 01:07:15.920 real goal, right, It's there. They are people that are working diligently 765 01:07:15.960 --> 01:07:20.199 in their jobs trying to solve a problem. Right, no one can know, 766 01:07:23.199 --> 01:07:26.599 right, And which is kind of interesting. On the other flip side 767 01:07:26.639 --> 01:07:29.639 too, is that, Okay, let's say these UFO crash programs are real 768 01:07:30.599 --> 01:07:34.239 and they are highly classified. If that's the case, then there is some 769 01:07:34.360 --> 01:07:41.119 delicacy needed in that. You know, we can't just go bushwhack and charging 770 01:07:41.159 --> 01:07:47.840 into this that there are national security concerns, especially around technologies. If it's 771 01:07:48.000 --> 01:07:55.239 true any have been gleaned from back engineering something you're used to, I guess 772 01:07:55.719 --> 01:07:58.000 you said you did that. I would guess you did that on the tech 773 01:07:58.079 --> 01:08:02.119 side of things. Yeah, but hardware and software, mostly software, So 774 01:08:02.199 --> 01:08:08.639 you've been there, and so those are very sensitive projects. I'd imagine, 775 01:08:08.880 --> 01:08:12.320 Oh, yeah, they're they're very sensitive, and we're just I mean, 776 01:08:13.079 --> 01:08:16.039 I don't I'm not big on speculating. It can be fun, but it's 777 01:08:16.800 --> 01:08:21.640 I guess it's for me, it's not too useful. But if to speculate 778 01:08:21.680 --> 01:08:28.319 on if we have crashed UFOs is I just don't feel like we have evidence 779 01:08:28.640 --> 01:08:33.000 enough evidence to to really pursue that to its end. And people will disagree 780 01:08:33.039 --> 01:08:39.920 with me. I'm I'm I'm a I'm a big skeptic, even when it 781 01:08:39.920 --> 01:08:43.640 comes to UFOs. I'm pretty much skeptical about everything, and I think that's 782 01:08:43.680 --> 01:08:48.640 important. And like you know, people will knock mcwest, but we need 783 01:08:48.680 --> 01:08:54.399 people like mcwest. If if you have an idea or an opinion that can't 784 01:08:54.439 --> 01:08:58.840 stand up to scrutiny, well then potentially it's not an idea in our opinion, 785 01:08:59.119 --> 01:09:04.000 that's that's work holding, right, So, if you talk about crash 786 01:09:04.039 --> 01:09:13.079 retrievals, I guess it's possible. We've we honestly really haven't seen a strong 787 01:09:13.199 --> 01:09:17.319 indication that there are There seem to be a number of people that are convinced 788 01:09:17.640 --> 01:09:26.000 that we have retrieved crash UFOs. But what they're really saying is they have 789 01:09:26.079 --> 01:09:30.079 something that they recovered that they don't know what it is. That's it, 790 01:09:30.399 --> 01:09:35.279 right, So right, So I'm not really sure what I can derive from 791 01:09:35.279 --> 01:09:41.439 that. There's something that they have that they don't understand. So there's a 792 01:09:41.439 --> 01:09:45.640 lot of things we don't understand, right, I don't know what to make 793 01:09:45.680 --> 01:09:47.840 of that. So I think, what we need more data, and we 794 01:09:47.880 --> 01:09:54.039 need more evidence. And I think it's great the work that tts tt s 795 01:09:54.119 --> 01:09:57.800 A is doing and the work that skyhub is doing, and the folks over 796 01:09:57.800 --> 01:10:02.119 at uap X are looking to hands on research. So I think as these 797 01:10:02.119 --> 01:10:06.720 groups start pushing for further and further, hopefully we'll be able to get more 798 01:10:06.760 --> 01:10:13.880 clarity on some of these claims. M Yeah, I've posted on Open Minds 799 01:10:14.600 --> 01:10:19.439 articles on I think what are probably the most convincing crashes in the US and 800 01:10:19.960 --> 01:10:26.279 international cases some of them are very interesting. But of course some of them 801 01:10:26.359 --> 01:10:30.880 have turned out to be space debris, which would make sense. That's the 802 01:10:30.920 --> 01:10:35.560 whole point. If it's unidentified, it could be foreign technology, and foreign 803 01:10:35.560 --> 01:10:41.319 technology of course typically meaning Chinese or Russian or some other government, which has 804 01:10:41.359 --> 01:10:45.359 turned out to be the case in many cases. So I think you're right, 805 01:10:45.399 --> 01:10:50.039 you know, none of those cases, even Roswell. I wrote a 806 01:10:50.079 --> 01:10:55.039 piece on that recently, just kind of I'm just trying to educate people on 807 01:10:55.199 --> 01:11:00.239 UFO crashes and what's out there historically regarding UFO crashes, so they can have 808 01:11:00.520 --> 01:11:03.520 all the information and you know, determined for themselves. But I would say 809 01:11:03.520 --> 01:11:09.960 you're right, they all pretty much rely on anecdotal information, which is sort 810 01:11:09.960 --> 01:11:16.279 of difficult. And I would say none often non. Well, yeah, 811 01:11:16.439 --> 01:11:24.279 the anecdotal information. So it's really difficult especially if and I keep saying this, 812 01:11:24.399 --> 01:11:28.439 if you want the scientific community involved, we we have to we have 813 01:11:28.479 --> 01:11:33.279 to get better data. And as you collect that data and be more rigorous 814 01:11:33.720 --> 01:11:40.159 on how you build your body of information about UFOs, people will take that 815 01:11:40.199 --> 01:11:45.479 seriously. You know, people will knock Neil de grass Tyson or recently, 816 01:11:45.960 --> 01:11:50.279 you know, I commented on Seth Shostak's article about UFO, and a lot 817 01:11:50.359 --> 01:11:57.399 of people criticize me for, you know, saying, great article. But 818 01:11:57.520 --> 01:12:01.079 these are the types of people, maybe not specifically Tyson or Shawstak, but 819 01:12:01.119 --> 01:12:05.560 these are the types of people where we really do want involved. We want 820 01:12:05.600 --> 01:12:12.920 these people that have devoted their careers to physics and searching for life in the 821 01:12:12.960 --> 01:12:17.600 galaxy. So we want these types of people involved in the discussion. But 822 01:12:17.760 --> 01:12:23.079 the only way you're going to get them involved is credible data. They want 823 01:12:23.159 --> 01:12:27.439 data. Yeah, I agree with you one thousand percent, and I think 824 01:12:27.520 --> 01:12:31.119 one of the problems is and that's what is kind of difficult. Maybe Skyhub 825 01:12:31.199 --> 01:12:35.560 will finally be that person nobody has been willing to kind of stand up and 826 01:12:35.720 --> 01:12:44.560 counter or at least debate Shostak and others kind of a in a peer to 827 01:12:44.640 --> 01:12:49.399 peer type of way. And I'm hopeful that will happen because we do need 828 01:12:49.439 --> 01:12:54.439 a setti of UAPs essentially, and to the Stars has kind of been had 829 01:12:54.479 --> 01:12:58.079 their own focus. They have limited resources, despite what many people think, 830 01:12:58.560 --> 01:13:05.279 and they've also made I think an astronomical amount of headway in this field right 831 01:13:05.319 --> 01:13:09.640 now. Just I never could have imagined, you know, I mean, 832 01:13:09.640 --> 01:13:13.840 they've gotten the Senate intelligence community to ask these questions. That's you know, 833 01:13:14.359 --> 01:13:20.760 amazing. So they've definitely been doing their part. But yeah, hopefully in 834 01:13:20.800 --> 01:13:26.439 the not too distant future, we'll have you know, people challenging them with 835 01:13:26.520 --> 01:13:29.479 more than just you know, we'll go look at the internet. You'll see 836 01:13:29.600 --> 01:13:33.960 this and that, or you know, with more challenging points and facts and 837 01:13:34.079 --> 01:13:38.119 data, because certainly, I think there's room there. Certainly, I don't 838 01:13:38.119 --> 01:13:42.279 know if you'd agree with this. Shostack is an intelligent thinker, but he 839 01:13:43.239 --> 01:13:49.439 doesn't seem to have all the information when he is espousing his opinions. Potentially, 840 01:13:49.520 --> 01:13:56.880 I mean, so consider this. So, if you're interested in astrophysics, 841 01:13:56.920 --> 01:14:02.239 it doesn't necessarily make you interested in UFOs. So I assume that Seth 842 01:14:02.359 --> 01:14:10.920 has pursued SETI because he's passionate about it, and maybe he's not passionate about 843 01:14:11.000 --> 01:14:16.560 UFOs. You really don't go researching UFOs and ufology unless you have a deep 844 01:14:16.600 --> 01:14:23.800 interest or a curiosity about it. And also, you know, I'm sure 845 01:14:23.840 --> 01:14:29.439 his job's fairly demanding and he would actually have to like prioritize researching UFOs, 846 01:14:29.520 --> 01:14:34.840 which I wouldn't expect anyone anyone just to go out and start researching UFOs. 847 01:14:34.920 --> 01:14:40.800 But if you go to someone and like say, oh, there's unidentified like 848 01:14:41.000 --> 01:14:45.560 and of course there's ets flying around our atmosphere, someone that has devoted their 849 01:14:45.600 --> 01:14:50.279 life to searching for extraterrestrial intelligence and the galaxy is going to be like, 850 01:14:51.880 --> 01:14:57.640 yeah, I'm not convinced, and they're they're probably not going to look at 851 01:14:57.640 --> 01:15:01.119 it unless you give them really compelling information. Can't be anecdotal, can't be 852 01:15:01.159 --> 01:15:06.960 cleaned stories. So my only argument is Stan Friedman has did debate him before 853 01:15:06.960 --> 01:15:11.520 he passed away quite a few times and did give him materials. And for 854 01:15:11.560 --> 01:15:15.640 instance, I've written an article and I do a lecture about astronomers and UFOs, 855 01:15:15.960 --> 01:15:18.640 And I guess that's my main contention with him is that he always claims 856 01:15:18.760 --> 01:15:25.079 astronomers don't see UFOs, they're not interested in UFOs, when I think I 857 01:15:25.119 --> 01:15:29.600 can show in my article and in my lectures that astronomers are the ones who 858 01:15:29.640 --> 01:15:33.720 started in neufology, beginning with like doctor j Allen Heinek, he was an 859 01:15:33.720 --> 01:15:39.600 astronomer and he wrote a paper. And there's another guy, Peter Sturk, 860 01:15:39.600 --> 01:15:45.399 who wrote a paper, a book about astronomers and UFOs demonstrating including doing inventories 861 01:15:45.439 --> 01:15:51.920 with large astronomy associations. And I know Friedman in particular has shared this information 862 01:15:51.960 --> 01:15:56.359 with Shatstack, these books and information, and to this date, even though 863 01:15:56.359 --> 01:16:00.319 it's been decades, to this date, it doesn't appear that he's read or 864 01:16:00.399 --> 01:16:06.840 reviewed any of that material. So it is my opinion he is actively staying 865 01:16:06.880 --> 01:16:12.880 away from trying to educate himself in this area, and possibly for the reason 866 01:16:12.880 --> 01:16:15.239 that you mentioned is that you know it would be a lot to tackle. 867 01:16:15.840 --> 01:16:19.399 But at the very least he could read those reports. The Heinech wrote a 868 01:16:19.439 --> 01:16:24.079 report on astronomers and UFOs, there's a book. If he read those things, 869 01:16:24.119 --> 01:16:28.840 at least he would be able to correct that inaccurate statement. I mean 870 01:16:28.880 --> 01:16:32.479 we could ask him, I mean, I know, ask him. Yeah, 871 01:16:32.640 --> 01:16:38.800 I'm confident he'd give us an answer. Yeah, well he has been 872 01:16:38.840 --> 01:16:43.119 asked, and essentially just as I'm not aware of that material, and that's 873 01:16:43.159 --> 01:16:46.680 all he'll say. So unfortunately, but I think things will change as more 874 01:16:46.720 --> 01:16:53.399 people and people who are at a higher level begin to to get involved with 875 01:16:53.439 --> 01:17:00.039 the conversation and I and it always comes back to data. I think we 876 01:17:00.119 --> 01:17:05.079 were to present Shawstak or any other scientists with credible data that showed something truly 877 01:17:05.199 --> 01:17:10.119 interesting, they would probably, I mean the scientific community, let's be honest, 878 01:17:10.119 --> 01:17:12.960 they would jump all over that. Yeah, if you could actually too 879 01:17:13.079 --> 01:17:17.800 give them evidence, they would like they would be all over UFOs. And 880 01:17:17.840 --> 01:17:20.479 I can't blame them in that. Typically, you know, this has not 881 01:17:20.520 --> 01:17:27.800 been the most disciplined or scientific kind of area of study. So I think 882 01:17:27.880 --> 01:17:31.199 the vast majority happens to us, happened to you right now. Vast majority 883 01:17:31.239 --> 01:17:39.239 of information that is shared with you is less than credible or usually very dubious, 884 01:17:39.279 --> 01:17:43.600 and you, for my case, I'll spend days or hours researching it 885 01:17:43.760 --> 01:17:47.239 just to find out it isn't something credible. So it's interesting. I've actually 886 01:17:47.239 --> 01:17:56.520 become more skeptical of UFOs after getting involved with the subject. So, like 887 01:17:57.439 --> 01:18:00.479 you know, as I dig in and like learn more about some of the 888 01:18:00.479 --> 01:18:04.239 different aspects in eupology, I'm even more skeptical about most of the things. 889 01:18:04.640 --> 01:18:09.920 And one of the primary reasons I'm actually even involved is because of Chris Mellen 890 01:18:10.520 --> 01:18:14.880 and lluell'esde. When they got out was it twenty seventeen, they came out 891 01:18:14.920 --> 01:18:18.479 on stage and showed the Like got the videos out in the New York Times 892 01:18:18.800 --> 01:18:26.079 and they announced TTSA was That's what kind of dragged me in is seeing two 893 01:18:26.199 --> 01:18:32.760 really credible people from the intelligence community jump into the UFO topic, which I 894 01:18:32.760 --> 01:18:36.960 found very interesting. So I probably wouldn't be doing this today if it wasn't 895 01:18:36.960 --> 01:18:41.600 for those two. Yeah, that's awesome, and I think that's true for 896 01:18:41.640 --> 01:18:44.880 a lot of people. And I think whether you like it or not, 897 01:18:45.560 --> 01:18:51.359 your work is going to get a lot more people involved and that that's going 898 01:18:51.439 --> 01:18:57.600 to be exciting. One last question before we it's a bad time we end 899 01:18:57.600 --> 01:19:00.520 this. That's okay, you got time, yep, I okay. My 900 01:19:00.600 --> 01:19:05.880 last question here is there was kind of a debate that I thought was really 901 01:19:05.880 --> 01:19:10.079 interesting and I'm not sure if you had seen that, you might have been 902 01:19:10.119 --> 01:19:14.720 involved with this Twitter debate between Like and the people we're mentioning, Adam Kehoe, 903 01:19:15.039 --> 01:19:19.399 Tim McMillan, Chris mellan, and Tyler Rogaway. And it was kind 904 01:19:19.399 --> 01:19:24.319 of not that Chris mellon was definitely involved with the conversation, but he certainly 905 01:19:24.359 --> 01:19:29.159 prompted it by statements he had made and essentially someone asked, you know, 906 01:19:29.199 --> 01:19:35.800 how comprehensive was their review of information to determine these objects weren't from another country, 907 01:19:36.279 --> 01:19:41.159 especially China or Russia, and he said it was very comprehensive. And 908 01:19:41.199 --> 01:19:47.399 he argues that you know, they do have oversight. He did when he 909 01:19:47.439 --> 01:19:51.960 worked with the Senate, have oversight of all of the SAPs and USAPS, 910 01:19:53.000 --> 01:19:57.560 and so he's very confident when he says these aren't ours, and we don't 911 01:19:57.640 --> 01:20:00.600 have programs with these sort of things, and he would be in a position 912 01:20:00.680 --> 01:20:06.800 to know. Some people argued, surprisingly, even Tyler Rogaway, defense writer 913 01:20:08.039 --> 01:20:12.920 journalist, that it could be possible that there could be projects or programs that 914 01:20:13.119 --> 01:20:21.840 are outside of you know, normal oversight. Do you think that's possible. 915 01:20:23.119 --> 01:20:28.600 I think Mellon seemed skeptical of that. So did most Brian Bender, I 916 01:20:28.640 --> 01:20:32.960 think even commented at another defense policy you know journalist, skeptical of that. 917 01:20:34.560 --> 01:20:39.880 What are your thoughts? So I never really worked at that level, right, 918 01:20:40.159 --> 01:20:45.359 So I worked cleared programs, of course, But as far as a 919 01:20:45.439 --> 01:20:50.079 program existing without oversight would be, it would seem difficult. It would seem 920 01:20:50.119 --> 01:20:56.279 to be difficult. I'm not exactly sure. I guess in theory it's possible. 921 01:20:58.000 --> 01:21:02.880 I never witnessed anything that was done in the shadows. It's just sensitive, 922 01:21:02.960 --> 01:21:06.920 right, They're just trying to protect information. I guess it's conceivable there 923 01:21:08.000 --> 01:21:13.840 might be a program somewhere, but there's got to be somewhere someone wondering where 924 01:21:13.880 --> 01:21:17.840 all this money is going. So they're accountable to someone because they need money 925 01:21:18.079 --> 01:21:28.640 and they're getting it somehow, So there's always some trail of paperwork or money. 926 01:21:29.359 --> 01:21:31.800 So I'm not really sure. I'm probably not the best person to ask 927 01:21:31.880 --> 01:21:38.079 that. It would seem no, just your experience is interesting. It would 928 01:21:38.079 --> 01:21:43.760 seem difficult to do because a lot of people have like kind of an interesting 929 01:21:43.800 --> 01:21:47.720 perspective of the government, like this well oiled machine, hiding secrets from the 930 01:21:47.760 --> 01:21:51.920 people and conspiring against the people. But really it's just people like you and 931 01:21:51.960 --> 01:21:56.359 I. It's your neighbors, it's your friends, it's your family that are 932 01:21:56.359 --> 01:22:00.760 going to work every day getting a job done. And it's really not a 933 01:22:00.760 --> 01:22:03.680 well oiled machine. It's just a bunch of random people showing up every day 934 01:22:03.920 --> 01:22:09.439 trying to get a job done. And you know, people should be surprised 935 01:22:09.439 --> 01:22:14.800 the government runs as well as it does. But uh, yeah, it's 936 01:22:15.640 --> 01:22:19.359 I just don't see like working inside the government and being a part of it. 937 01:22:21.319 --> 01:22:28.439 Nobody's conspiring. People are just trying to get jobs done, and you 938 01:22:28.479 --> 01:22:33.520 know, things are sensitive you can't share with the public right So skyhub dot 939 01:22:33.640 --> 01:22:39.319 org is where people can go see more about sky Hub. Also, when 940 01:22:39.319 --> 01:22:43.479 you said to you you found all these government documents are tho shared online somewhere, 941 01:22:44.239 --> 01:22:48.720 so they were so I used to have everything hosted at fluxufo, but 942 01:22:48.840 --> 01:22:53.520 since I got involved in sky Hub, that has kind of been pushed to 943 01:22:53.560 --> 01:22:57.840 the wayside. So my collection of documents is not currently accessible. It is 944 01:22:57.920 --> 01:23:02.279 possible they will be back on line in the future. But there is another 945 01:23:02.399 --> 01:23:12.199 project that's popping up called Sightings that will incorporate witness testimony and potentially other data 946 01:23:12.279 --> 01:23:16.399 sources of documents and things like that. So I would keep keep your ears 947 01:23:17.359 --> 01:23:20.920 peak for that one. That might be an interesting project to keep your eye 948 01:23:20.960 --> 01:23:25.560 on. Yeah. Well, I'm super excited about what you're doing. If 949 01:23:25.600 --> 01:23:29.119 Open Minds dot tv can help in any way, please do let us know 950 01:23:30.119 --> 01:23:35.880 and keep up the great work. Your involvement thus far has been very helpful 951 01:23:36.119 --> 01:23:41.479 and definitely appreciated by people like me, and I know the guys at SCU 952 01:23:41.640 --> 01:23:46.279 who do appreciate you know, the scientific method and better, more credible ways 953 01:23:46.319 --> 01:23:50.920 of collecting and sharing data. So keep up the and I have a feeling 954 01:23:50.960 --> 01:23:57.079 this is going to be the first of many, cos I think so well. 955 01:23:57.119 --> 01:24:00.680 I really appreciate you having me on. It's been great my pleasure. 956 01:24:00.760 --> 01:24:04.600 Thank you so much for taking the time to do it. And I guess 957 01:24:04.640 --> 01:24:09.920 we'll see you, hopefully in the audience again next time we do a show. 958 01:24:10.399 --> 01:24:14.359 Oh definitely, and don't forget catch us at skyhub dot org and come 959 01:24:14.439 --> 01:24:17.840 check out the project. Yep, I hope. I'll definitely be pushing that 960 01:24:17.920 --> 01:24:23.760 quite a bit. It's really exciting and the finished product is really good looking 961 01:24:23.800 --> 01:24:29.600 too. Oh, thank you all right, thanks man, talk to you 962 01:24:29.720 --> 01:24:30.479 later. Thank you.