1 00:00:00,760 --> 00:00:06,599 You're listening to the Paranormal UK Radio Network, the best in paranormal talk radio 2 00:00:06,799 --> 00:00:32,759 in the UK and around the world. Welcome to the Paranormal Pendal Podcast, 3 00:00:33,039 --> 00:00:36,679 coming to you from the hearts of Pendle Witch Country in the northwest of England. 4 00:00:37,439 --> 00:00:41,880 My name is Craig Brant, author, investigator and collector of stories. 5 00:00:42,560 --> 00:00:48,799 Join me as we take a journey into the paranoral UFO sightings, cryptozoology and 6 00:00:48,920 --> 00:01:02,439 big cast. This is the Paranoral Pendal Podcast. Welcome to episode forty two 7 00:01:02,679 --> 00:01:08,200 of Paranorimal Pendal, broadcasting to the Paranormal UK Network at PAUK radio dot com. 8 00:01:08,799 --> 00:01:14,400 And for those who've got eagle eyes or eagle ears, whichever way you 9 00:01:14,439 --> 00:01:18,799 look at it. I've actually got the episode number right this time. The 10 00:01:18,879 --> 00:01:23,280 last episode I did with with Gary Jones, I actually mentioned that it was 11 00:01:23,319 --> 00:01:26,760 the wrong episode number, so I've got the right episode number. We are 12 00:01:26,760 --> 00:01:33,359 definitely on number forty two, So yeah. My guest on this episode is 13 00:01:33,560 --> 00:01:37,959 actually a returning guest. Great guests the first time around. Really looking forward 14 00:01:37,959 --> 00:01:45,239 to chatting to him again. Author and researcher Richard Rockbay. Richard has written 15 00:01:45,519 --> 00:01:49,959 a best selling book, The Lights upon the Hills about the Burton Dassett UFO 16 00:01:49,000 --> 00:01:53,319 event of nineteen twenty three, and he's I'm talking to him, Toterdario, 17 00:01:53,319 --> 00:01:57,319 because he's got some updated research and we're also going to have a chat about 18 00:01:57,319 --> 00:02:01,599 a few other subjects as well, hopefully so Richard, it's absolutely great to 19 00:02:01,599 --> 00:02:05,640 have you back. Thanks for coming back on again. Yeah, good evening, 20 00:02:05,840 --> 00:02:07,879 Craig, thanks very much for asking me, no problem. Can I 21 00:02:07,960 --> 00:02:12,479 just ask what the weather's like where you are, because it's absolutely freezing cold 22 00:02:12,479 --> 00:02:15,599 here and we've had a bit of snow and it's all very frosty and it's 23 00:02:15,639 --> 00:02:19,319 beginning to look a lot like Christmas as this it is. Yeah, so 24 00:02:19,360 --> 00:02:23,439 it's it's it's bright, but it's cold but bright here, so we have 25 00:02:23,479 --> 00:02:25,759 the best of both worlds. We've had a bit of sun, a bit 26 00:02:25,800 --> 00:02:31,919 of frost on the ground, but cold and fresh. Yes, it's nearly 27 00:02:32,000 --> 00:02:36,879 at that sea word, isn't it? But I tend to push mine back 28 00:02:37,439 --> 00:02:42,759 as close as possible to the actual tre bar humbug. I know everyone's shouting, 29 00:02:42,800 --> 00:02:50,639 but absolutely I think I'm becoming more more enamored by Christmas the older I 30 00:02:50,639 --> 00:02:53,599 get. I think the opposite way to most people I've been I've been badgering 31 00:02:53,879 --> 00:02:59,599 missus Bryant put the Christmas tree up for the last one. Well, I 32 00:02:59,639 --> 00:03:01,000 think it's up this weekend, so I'm looking for Yeah, there's no law 33 00:03:01,120 --> 00:03:05,479 against it, so you get your tree up whenever you want. There is 34 00:03:05,599 --> 00:03:07,840 not, although I do tend to shout to houses that have gotten them up 35 00:03:07,840 --> 00:03:14,960 in November. Anyway, we digress. Let's talk about your book, The 36 00:03:15,039 --> 00:03:20,039 Lights upon the Hills, the Burton Dassity, UFO events. What's the what's 37 00:03:20,120 --> 00:03:23,120 the crux of the story? Then? What what happened back in nineteen twenty 38 00:03:23,159 --> 00:03:29,080 three? Yeah, so well, yeah, a bit a bit of background. 39 00:03:29,159 --> 00:03:35,599 I originally wrote the book during COVID. I was I was. I 40 00:03:35,599 --> 00:03:38,599 worked through COVID. I was COVID, I was a police officer. But 41 00:03:38,439 --> 00:03:44,680 in the downtime I managed to abuse this this book, which was going to 42 00:03:44,680 --> 00:03:51,520 be an article for the Greater Outer Limits magazine, but it was viewed by 43 00:03:52,599 --> 00:03:59,080 Philip Mantle who suggested to make a book of it Flying Express, so we 44 00:03:59,439 --> 00:04:04,960 so I did that in twenty nineteen and got it published through find Fling Dispress 45 00:04:05,039 --> 00:04:10,719 in November twenty twenty, and I was really pleased with it. I got 46 00:04:10,759 --> 00:04:15,720 really good reception. Really surprised really at the reception it got. And I 47 00:04:15,759 --> 00:04:20,120 was on the podcasts such as Yourself as a great podcast such as Yourselves and 48 00:04:20,120 --> 00:04:26,639 in America, and yeah, it got really good response. But I always 49 00:04:26,680 --> 00:04:31,480 felt I could put more into it, and there was there was other research 50 00:04:31,519 --> 00:04:35,360 I could do, and I felt that, you know, one hundred years 51 00:04:35,360 --> 00:04:42,920 from the event, there might be something which may happen which be worth writing 52 00:04:42,920 --> 00:04:46,000 about. So I decided when I retired a couple of years ago that I 53 00:04:46,040 --> 00:04:50,639 would I would rewrite the book and update it, which is what I've done 54 00:04:50,720 --> 00:04:56,160 now, so it's now twice the size as it was, new research, 55 00:04:56,240 --> 00:05:00,360 fresh research for me. I also got managed to get acts to doctor David 56 00:05:00,439 --> 00:05:05,040 Clark's Spooklights paper, which is very helpful. So I'm aused to get all 57 00:05:05,079 --> 00:05:10,560 that in put and put it into a new updated book which I've now published 58 00:05:11,600 --> 00:05:15,800 on Amazon. So I've self published it now on Amazon. But the initial 59 00:05:15,879 --> 00:05:24,120 story started sort of February, sorry, December nineteen twenty two were lights that 60 00:05:24,160 --> 00:05:30,879 were described which were attributed to ghosts at the time were seen on Burton Dasset 61 00:05:30,920 --> 00:05:35,920 Hills. Now Burton Dasset Hills is in Warwickshire sight in the center of England. 62 00:05:36,800 --> 00:05:43,600 It's about twenty miles south of Birmingham, about twenty miles north of Oxford, 63 00:05:44,920 --> 00:05:53,079 and generally Warwickshire is a flat, rolling, flattis rulling countryside type area, 64 00:05:53,160 --> 00:05:58,040 so I often describe it like the Shire out of Middle Earth. But 65 00:05:58,160 --> 00:06:03,240 within that our model, if you like, is a series of five hills 66 00:06:03,759 --> 00:06:10,040 that reach up on the western side of the county. They're not particularly big 67 00:06:10,120 --> 00:06:15,160 by mountain standard, you know, it's not the Lakes or achieve Its or 68 00:06:15,160 --> 00:06:19,040 anything like that. In fact, they are about six hundred and ninety two 69 00:06:19,040 --> 00:06:25,439 feet is probably the highest one, but they're very prominent because everything else is 70 00:06:25,480 --> 00:06:30,920 relatively flat, and these five hills have had a history in themselves. There 71 00:06:30,959 --> 00:06:35,160 was a village up there, the village of Burton Asset, up to the 72 00:06:35,199 --> 00:06:41,000 medi in the Middle Ages. There's a church there which I'll come on to. 73 00:06:42,680 --> 00:06:46,920 In more recent times, there was a military base that was suspiciously in 74 00:06:46,959 --> 00:06:56,079 my mind, built in nineteen forty three, directly opposite Burton Asset. So 75 00:06:56,319 --> 00:07:00,480 you've got this sort of area, but in nineteen twenty two, by then 76 00:07:00,560 --> 00:07:04,040 it was a recreational area, just like it is now. It's a county 77 00:07:04,120 --> 00:07:10,199 park, so people can go up there and spend their summers and winters walking 78 00:07:10,240 --> 00:07:14,240 around it, walking the dog, taking the sites, etce. In nineteen 79 00:07:14,279 --> 00:07:17,879 twenty two it was often, you know, the past time would be to 80 00:07:17,920 --> 00:07:23,199 go up into the hills and have a walk around. But they started to 81 00:07:23,199 --> 00:07:29,959 get these reports of by various different local residents. Really it started off of 82 00:07:30,160 --> 00:07:35,920 lights were seeing traveling at different speeds, different altitudes on the hills and going 83 00:07:35,959 --> 00:07:42,040 over the hills and particularly round the church, and the story start to grow 84 00:07:42,560 --> 00:07:47,959 until it gets national press. Local press go band because the band Bury Gazette 85 00:07:48,279 --> 00:07:51,639 do a big feature on it and send reporters up to see these lights, 86 00:07:51,639 --> 00:07:57,600 and then the Birmingham Times, the London Times all start sending reporters to the 87 00:07:57,720 --> 00:08:03,560 area to report on the lights which are seen and recorded. And I had 88 00:08:03,639 --> 00:08:09,120 detailer reports from the newspapers and from the locals sort of in the book. 89 00:08:11,120 --> 00:08:20,680 And the lights are attributed to ghosts, I think completely understandably because in nineteen 90 00:08:20,759 --> 00:08:26,199 twenty two we're still suffering from the First World War. Warwickshire was as hit 91 00:08:26,240 --> 00:08:33,240 as hard as any English or British county. Whole villagers can be that the 92 00:08:33,240 --> 00:08:37,919 men folk could be wiped out in a single battle. We'd had the Spanish 93 00:08:37,919 --> 00:08:41,480 flu, which did have its effect over here, but not as bad as 94 00:08:41,519 --> 00:08:48,200 it did perhaps on the continent, so a lot of people had lost their 95 00:08:48,919 --> 00:08:56,399 loved ones and spiritualism which had started off in a round about eighteen sixty seven. 96 00:08:56,559 --> 00:09:00,159 I think it was the Fox Sisters brought it over from America following a 97 00:09:00,559 --> 00:09:07,559 civil war. It had it had it had a sort of naissance after the 98 00:09:07,559 --> 00:09:13,440 First World War, so people would attribute these lights to ghosts, despite them 99 00:09:13,480 --> 00:09:20,080 not being what you would call traditional ghostly sightings. And I think people wanted 100 00:09:20,120 --> 00:09:22,600 to go up to and see these lights. There's a sort of corroboration for 101 00:09:22,679 --> 00:09:28,600 their own spiritualist views at that time. You know that there was some hope 102 00:09:28,600 --> 00:09:33,519 that if there was ghosts on Dassett Hills, then there was an afterlife and 103 00:09:33,720 --> 00:09:39,320 they would see their sons again. So yeah, I think that, and 104 00:09:39,360 --> 00:09:45,960 that's part of the reason it got the attention it did was because of when 105 00:09:46,000 --> 00:09:48,840 it when it happened. But you know this, this is very early on 106 00:09:48,919 --> 00:09:54,720 in in Ufo sightings. Looking looking back now, of course, they had 107 00:09:54,720 --> 00:10:00,879 the Fatima, the Miracle of Fatima, which some people attribute to UFOs. 108 00:10:01,399 --> 00:10:05,080 Some people say it was you know, it was a Christian miracle. But 109 00:10:05,120 --> 00:10:09,399 some people attributed to your UFOs, including her Vongdanik, and he talks at 110 00:10:09,440 --> 00:10:13,440 length about it, and a few other sightings, had a few sightings in 111 00:10:13,480 --> 00:10:18,360 America and a crash ship Aurora and places like that. But this is before 112 00:10:18,480 --> 00:10:24,600 there is any aircraft or drones or anything. Well, there is aircraft, 113 00:10:24,639 --> 00:10:31,519 but it's big, loudy loud biplanes rather than small lights like this. So 114 00:10:31,200 --> 00:10:37,080 yeah, and I guess you know. I found the story initially in a 115 00:10:37,639 --> 00:10:43,200 booking titled The Ghosts of Warwickship by Betty Smith, who's quite a famous local 116 00:10:43,279 --> 00:10:52,039 historian and completely understandable by it was portrayed in nineteen twenties and you know later 117 00:10:52,120 --> 00:10:56,840 on as ghosts. But I just felt, looking back through the prism of 118 00:10:56,879 --> 00:11:01,720 what we know about UFOs now or you pas, to me, it was 119 00:11:01,759 --> 00:11:07,799 a it was a very well recorded, you know, multi witnessed u FO 120 00:11:07,879 --> 00:11:11,679 event, and that was certainly the sort of angle I took took in the 121 00:11:11,679 --> 00:11:16,480 book, and the conclusion I came to in the book when you when you 122 00:11:16,440 --> 00:11:22,879 rule out all the other theories and hypotheses which I have done, and I 123 00:11:24,000 --> 00:11:26,879 detail why it couldn't have been many of other things. Then you are left 124 00:11:28,039 --> 00:11:31,759 if you if you trust the reports that all these people have made, then 125 00:11:31,799 --> 00:11:35,200 you are left with a u FO event that's all really only only thing it 126 00:11:35,240 --> 00:11:39,879 can really be. Yeah, I mean, I suppose if it had been 127 00:11:39,960 --> 00:11:48,799 sort of one or two reports, you could probably dispel most most theories with 128 00:11:48,919 --> 00:11:52,759 regards to U A, P S or UFOs. But you know, it 129 00:11:52,879 --> 00:11:58,919 is interesting that we're talking one hundred years ago, and obviously man flight was, 130 00:11:58,159 --> 00:12:03,639 you know, despite the great leapsfolding technology or during the First World War, 131 00:12:03,080 --> 00:12:09,600 man flight was still in its infancy. And it is interesting that actually, 132 00:12:09,639 --> 00:12:13,080 I mean, I have come across quite a few reports from around about 133 00:12:15,360 --> 00:12:20,840 the turn of the century and into the twenties and thirties, certainly up until 134 00:12:20,000 --> 00:12:26,399 the Second World War, were they did seem to be a spate of UFO 135 00:12:26,559 --> 00:12:31,000 sightings in different areas of the country. Obviously, I'm in the northwestern England, 136 00:12:31,000 --> 00:12:35,399 and there were quite a number in the nineteen twenties and the nineteen thirties 137 00:12:35,720 --> 00:12:39,559 in this area as well. So perhaps these, you know, perhaps these 138 00:12:39,559 --> 00:12:45,279 were sort of like part of a pattern. Yeah, yeah, I mean, 139 00:12:46,440 --> 00:12:50,440 I guess, like I've done with this, people attributed them to different 140 00:12:50,480 --> 00:12:52,639 things at the time, so that we have the ghost rockets, don't we 141 00:12:52,679 --> 00:12:58,320 around about in the Scandinavian countries around about nineteen thirty or which were attributed to 142 00:13:00,200 --> 00:13:07,480 Nazi Germany. Again understandably and not wasn't just the Northwest in Hull and I 143 00:13:07,519 --> 00:13:13,919 think about nineteen or seven there was a report of a craft we'd call it 144 00:13:13,960 --> 00:13:16,639 now going in and out the Humber and bright craft going in out the Humber 145 00:13:16,679 --> 00:13:22,080 and seen by lots of people. So yeah, there's certainly where the reports 146 00:13:22,120 --> 00:13:26,919 there are happening. And in some ways, you know, we need to 147 00:13:26,000 --> 00:13:33,480 push back the reports of UFO sightings beyond nineteen forty seven, which tends to 148 00:13:33,519 --> 00:13:39,200 get you know, tends to be shown as the starting point. But you 149 00:13:39,200 --> 00:13:41,960 know that there is a good body of evidence to say it was happening. 150 00:13:43,200 --> 00:13:46,039 You know, there was there was regular sightings in that early sort of turn 151 00:13:46,080 --> 00:13:50,039 of the twentieth century. Yeah, and I've got no doubt that it goes 152 00:13:50,120 --> 00:13:52,679 back back in history further than that. Well, yes, yeah, without 153 00:13:52,679 --> 00:13:56,240 without doubt, I would say, without doubting it. It's to do with 154 00:13:56,279 --> 00:14:01,399 the record keeping, I guess and as the record the record keeping has got 155 00:14:01,399 --> 00:14:05,519 better, then suddenly, you know, in my view, it's not a 156 00:14:05,639 --> 00:14:09,879 question do UFOs exist anymore that that, you know, you'd like to say 157 00:14:09,919 --> 00:14:13,759 that case has been settled. It now moves on to what are they and 158 00:14:13,799 --> 00:14:18,080 why? I guess, but exactly. Yeah, I mean there was one. 159 00:14:18,120 --> 00:14:20,519 There was one in the sixteenth century in Germany. I think, wasn't 160 00:14:20,559 --> 00:14:22,519 that very famous one? Yeah? Yeah, it was at Nuremberg. I 161 00:14:22,559 --> 00:14:26,279 think that's the one. Yeah that they just yeah, yeah, to re 162 00:14:26,320 --> 00:14:28,039 mind as you're mentioning that. So yeah, I mean, going back, 163 00:14:28,320 --> 00:14:31,759 you know, maybe hundreds of years. I think it's I think it's really 164 00:14:31,759 --> 00:14:35,480 interesting. So what I mean obviously you did a massive amount of research when 165 00:14:35,519 --> 00:14:39,720 when you wrote the first version of the book. But the updated book, 166 00:14:41,039 --> 00:14:43,200 from what you're saying, is now twice the size of the original one. 167 00:14:43,279 --> 00:14:48,840 So what sort of you know, new evidence did you find then when when 168 00:14:48,879 --> 00:14:54,279 you went looking for it? Yeah, So the I suppose with the initial 169 00:14:54,559 --> 00:15:01,120 encounter in nineteen twenty twenty two to February twenty three, I managed to get 170 00:15:01,200 --> 00:15:07,440 hold of more details of the reports from the paper so paper. So originally 171 00:15:07,919 --> 00:15:15,879 I was working with just the Banbury Gazette and a few references to the London 172 00:15:15,960 --> 00:15:20,360 Times. I managed to get hold of some more information. A lot came 173 00:15:20,399 --> 00:15:26,080 from Dr David Clark's Booklights, which he which is a really interesting paper written 174 00:15:26,080 --> 00:15:31,440 by him and a number of others, which talks about lights generally going around 175 00:15:31,480 --> 00:15:39,120 the country and the lights that have been seeing near churches and willow the wisps, 176 00:15:39,159 --> 00:15:43,159 et cetera. But he does talk about Burton Dasset in the context of 177 00:15:43,159 --> 00:15:50,039 it being a booklight flap is how he describes it, and that that give 178 00:15:50,240 --> 00:15:52,120 give us a lot more, give me a lot more information, and pointed 179 00:15:52,159 --> 00:15:58,240 me towards some of the papers that did more sent up reporters, so that 180 00:15:58,320 --> 00:16:03,120 the Birmingham Times in London Time Times sent up reporters to see to see if 181 00:16:03,120 --> 00:16:07,519 they could find these lights, and very often they did. There's a really 182 00:16:07,559 --> 00:16:15,159 good report of a journalist from the London Times who's been sent up, very 183 00:16:15,159 --> 00:16:19,159 skeptical, spends a bit of time in the pub with the locals waiting to 184 00:16:19,200 --> 00:16:23,240 go out just after just as it's turning dark, to see if you can 185 00:16:23,279 --> 00:16:29,639 see these lights, and he toops up the up the hill to tinned up 186 00:16:29,639 --> 00:16:33,080 for the lights and he's sort of saying, well, I didn't see anything 187 00:16:33,120 --> 00:16:37,399 that was that unusual that couldn't be explained. He ends up on Windmill Hill, 188 00:16:37,440 --> 00:16:41,159 which is the tallest hill of the five, and he's looking out just 189 00:16:41,200 --> 00:16:48,120 as the sun going down, and he describes how he saw a golden orb 190 00:16:48,480 --> 00:16:52,600 drop down from the clouds and illuminate the cloud base. So you can imagine 191 00:16:52,600 --> 00:16:57,200 as it's turning dark and this cloud, this object comes down from the clouds 192 00:16:57,399 --> 00:17:03,039 and it's so bright to to cast its light onto the bottom of the clouds 193 00:17:03,200 --> 00:17:07,400 and then sees it zip off at speed to the horizon horizon. Has absolutely 194 00:17:07,440 --> 00:17:14,400 amazed as to what he's seen. And other reporters have come in and they 195 00:17:14,440 --> 00:17:21,160 managed to talk to locals that have seen the lights. And then there's one 196 00:17:21,200 --> 00:17:26,480 where I did mention it in the first book. A man called George Cottrell 197 00:17:26,480 --> 00:17:32,640 who's a local groom, and he sees a light, bluish light which is 198 00:17:32,680 --> 00:17:37,559 near a pond and it's it freaks out the horse that he's with. And 199 00:17:37,599 --> 00:17:41,359 this light has seemed to be moving around at speed and across the hills, 200 00:17:41,839 --> 00:17:45,799 and that was to be later attributed to, you know, the the euthologist 201 00:17:45,920 --> 00:17:53,960 nemesis that is marsh Gas many years later, but you know it clearly wasn't 202 00:17:55,119 --> 00:18:00,720 marsh Gas. But then that reporter actually bumps into somebody fair down the road 203 00:18:00,720 --> 00:18:06,279 that also sees the light, sees the light traveling down north North End village 204 00:18:06,680 --> 00:18:11,160 and he steps out and he sees this light coming at him. So within 205 00:18:11,880 --> 00:18:17,079 an hour or so, you know, maybe less than half a mile away, 206 00:18:18,240 --> 00:18:23,400 that George Cottle account is corroborated by somebody else. So the the paper, 207 00:18:23,599 --> 00:18:30,680 the new information we've got very often corroborated accounts that we knew we already 208 00:18:30,720 --> 00:18:40,000 had. So the there was a My favorite account is the reil wayman who 209 00:18:40,920 --> 00:18:49,599 was in a railway observation signal box and he sees an orange jaw perhaps similar 210 00:18:49,680 --> 00:18:55,720 to the one that reports in Windmill Hill, Uh fly and fly down and 211 00:18:55,839 --> 00:18:59,720 just sort of stop in front of his signal box, and he panics and 212 00:18:59,720 --> 00:19:04,000 he know what to do, and I'm goastually get some more details about that 213 00:19:04,079 --> 00:19:11,599 accounting. The signalman was called W. Corbett, and it says how he 214 00:19:11,599 --> 00:19:17,039 he grabs the giant spanner that they used for changing the signals back then and 215 00:19:17,400 --> 00:19:23,079 goes out to confront this craft. But fortunately perhaps for the craft. The 216 00:19:23,079 --> 00:19:27,799 craft flew off at that point, but he he did ring it through to 217 00:19:27,880 --> 00:19:32,759 the nearby station, who said ring it through to the police. The police 218 00:19:33,039 --> 00:19:37,680 sent out a vehicle to take it account. I mean, you know, 219 00:19:37,720 --> 00:19:44,720 it's they're they're really solid accounts these people have seen and for a signalman to 220 00:19:44,799 --> 00:19:49,400 do that back then, when it's threatening his livelihood, really, you know, 221 00:19:49,440 --> 00:19:52,599 if if people had taken it wrong, he would have just been out 222 00:19:52,599 --> 00:19:56,799 of a job because he had a very responsible job. But he was willing 223 00:19:56,880 --> 00:20:02,880 to put his you know, livelihood on the on the line, reputation on 224 00:20:02,920 --> 00:20:06,839 the line as well to report this. And I think that's partly because there 225 00:20:06,839 --> 00:20:11,680 were so many reports around at that time. Heaf enough to do so excuse 226 00:20:11,720 --> 00:20:15,720 me. So we brought in so I brought in some more information from that, 227 00:20:17,359 --> 00:20:19,160 some more accounts from the paper. We managed to put some more names 228 00:20:19,200 --> 00:20:25,400 to people. There is a good account which was it was a lady that 229 00:20:25,480 --> 00:20:30,799 worked in the vicarage as a maid and previously her her account was that she 230 00:20:32,359 --> 00:20:36,880 just saw a light. She saw a light that she was walking to work 231 00:20:37,000 --> 00:20:41,759 in the vicarage through Burton. That's it. She saw one of these lights 232 00:20:41,799 --> 00:20:45,119 which she describes going hither and thither across the hills. So you imagine go 233 00:20:45,160 --> 00:20:48,920 back to the forwards, up and down, and it's the light that's moving. 234 00:20:49,640 --> 00:20:53,880 But I'm actually get some more information to Although this lady isn't named, 235 00:20:55,440 --> 00:21:00,000 a great great granddaughter, a great granddaughter is and the story was passed down 236 00:21:00,119 --> 00:21:07,240 to her first hand about what she saw, and she states that she did 237 00:21:07,279 --> 00:21:10,640 see the light going when she was walking to work and went to work and 238 00:21:10,680 --> 00:21:15,119 made in the vicarage. But then she had a period of time where every 239 00:21:15,119 --> 00:21:17,519 time she poked her head out of the door to look at it, the 240 00:21:17,599 --> 00:21:21,920 light would appear, and she would poke her head back in, and then 241 00:21:21,960 --> 00:21:22,880 she'd try and do it again, and she poke her head out and the 242 00:21:22,920 --> 00:21:26,400 light would appear again. So you know that this is this isn't you know, 243 00:21:26,440 --> 00:21:33,599 an intelligent light form or it's showing some degree of intelligence. So that 244 00:21:33,680 --> 00:21:37,759 was really good as well, and all sorts of all corroborates you know what 245 00:21:37,960 --> 00:21:42,480 what I had detailed first time round again. Another favorite story of mine is 246 00:21:42,920 --> 00:21:48,359 George White and his and his three friends that go up onto the hill with 247 00:21:48,440 --> 00:21:52,359 a view of you know, saying it's a lord of nonsense, and then 248 00:21:52,400 --> 00:21:59,079 they see a light go over them. And what George says is George White 249 00:21:59,079 --> 00:22:03,319 says, is if felt it go over him. So again, this isn't 250 00:22:03,839 --> 00:22:07,440 this, This is something changing the atmosphere, perhaps giving off downward pressure, 251 00:22:08,079 --> 00:22:14,039 you know, something tangible, you know, all these things to me say 252 00:22:14,079 --> 00:22:18,000 that you know that this was a U f O U a p event rather 253 00:22:18,960 --> 00:22:25,359 something you know, more more wistful or yeah, yeah natural. Yeah, 254 00:22:25,400 --> 00:22:29,839 yeah, that's interesting. I mean that there's obviously then the more you sort 255 00:22:29,839 --> 00:22:36,599 of delved into it, the more firsthand accounts you seem to be finding, 256 00:22:36,640 --> 00:22:40,559 and there does seem to be a lot from there, you know, from 257 00:22:40,640 --> 00:22:45,480 from people have varied shall we say, social standing at the time, because 258 00:22:45,480 --> 00:22:52,160 obviously, you know, you had the maid who who was obviously you know, 259 00:22:52,920 --> 00:22:56,720 slightly down on the on the social scale, shall we say, from 260 00:22:56,119 --> 00:23:00,519 from the guy who was the signal man on the railway. So it's quite 261 00:23:00,880 --> 00:23:06,279 quite a cross section of the population in the area that have seen these things, 262 00:23:06,319 --> 00:23:10,039 isn't there. Yeah, there is, and you know, I think 263 00:23:10,039 --> 00:23:12,319 it was probably seen by hundreds of people, but the you know, it 264 00:23:12,359 --> 00:23:17,720 was the ones that made it into the papers or made it into local accounts 265 00:23:17,839 --> 00:23:21,279 with the tip of the iceberg. You know, people were going up to 266 00:23:21,319 --> 00:23:23,240 see these like it's just for the short period of time, you know, 267 00:23:25,640 --> 00:23:30,640 you know, three three months really, but yeah, I think it was 268 00:23:30,640 --> 00:23:33,480 seen by hundreds of people, but they you know, it was it was 269 00:23:33,519 --> 00:23:38,079 lost but four for the national papers to get involved, you know that the 270 00:23:38,079 --> 00:23:44,400 the surge of reports must have been such that they felt they needed to send 271 00:23:44,480 --> 00:23:48,920 people to it. Yeah, I mean the guy from the from London, 272 00:23:48,119 --> 00:23:52,440 the journalists from London, I think I quite like to have been a fly 273 00:23:52,519 --> 00:23:56,079 on the wall when he got back to got back to his in London after 274 00:23:56,240 --> 00:24:02,119 after his Yeah, I mean, I think a lot of a lot of 275 00:24:02,200 --> 00:24:06,759 journalists start from a you know, no disrespects journalist, but they start from 276 00:24:06,759 --> 00:24:12,200 a position of looking for any reason to debunk these sort of yeah stories. 277 00:24:12,240 --> 00:24:15,480 And then obviously if something like that happened to him, and it obviously sounded 278 00:24:15,559 --> 00:24:22,720 like, you know, quite a dramatic sighting that he had, I can 279 00:24:22,799 --> 00:24:26,839 just imagine how that must have affected him. Yeah, And I think it 280 00:24:26,920 --> 00:24:30,400 wasn't you know, again, they wouldn't back back then, It wasn't just 281 00:24:30,640 --> 00:24:34,400 you know, an hour and twenty minutes up the m forty to get to 282 00:24:34,440 --> 00:24:37,440 get people from London. They have to put a lot of effort to get 283 00:24:37,519 --> 00:24:41,720 journalists up there to see it. But it is funny to say about how 284 00:24:41,759 --> 00:24:47,480 the journalists haven't changed. So when I first released the book on Boxing Day, 285 00:24:48,480 --> 00:24:55,839 the Star ran an article about my book with the headline uphologists believe ghosts 286 00:24:55,839 --> 00:25:02,000 to World War One soldiers are UFOs, which which which wasn't what my intention 287 00:25:02,279 --> 00:25:07,640 was at all. But you know, some things never something's never changed, 288 00:25:07,039 --> 00:25:11,480 don't. Of course, headlines like that sell sell papers, don't they. 289 00:25:11,720 --> 00:25:15,519 Yeah, it's more likely to get attention. But yeah, there we are. 290 00:25:15,079 --> 00:25:18,599 Yeah. No, it's but it's been unfair, isn't it Because it's 291 00:25:18,640 --> 00:25:21,519 it's not it's not what you found, and it's not it's not what you 292 00:25:21,640 --> 00:25:23,880 talk about, is it? So no, no, you know it's not. 293 00:25:25,680 --> 00:25:29,400 Yeah, there are one hundred years on and nothing changes, does it. 294 00:25:30,240 --> 00:25:33,519 That's right. Yeah. I think about politicians as well, but yeah, 295 00:25:34,119 --> 00:25:38,200 yeah, So I mean it's interesting, isn't then that it was over 296 00:25:38,400 --> 00:25:44,160 such a short period of time. It was only over what about three months? 297 00:25:45,559 --> 00:25:52,240 And I assumed that it started abruptly and abruptly sorry, and finished ended 298 00:25:52,359 --> 00:25:56,119 abruptly. I mean, is is there any any indication at all as to 299 00:25:56,200 --> 00:26:00,920 why it was just this three month period? You know, No, there 300 00:26:00,960 --> 00:26:03,160 isn't. I mean, I guess if we knew the reason why the lights 301 00:26:03,160 --> 00:26:08,839 were there, that would help us. But yeah, it's stopped by end 302 00:26:08,880 --> 00:26:15,640 of February nineteen twenty three. After that, strangely, there was an earthquake. 303 00:26:15,880 --> 00:26:21,359 I know, Warwickshaw might not might seem a funny place for earthquakes, 304 00:26:21,400 --> 00:26:26,920 but I remember two thousand and two when we just moved up into the area, 305 00:26:26,559 --> 00:26:30,640 there was an earthquake where we lived, which was I don't know, 306 00:26:30,680 --> 00:26:33,440 maybe ten miles away from bertand As it itself. So Warwickshire does get the 307 00:26:33,480 --> 00:26:37,559 occasional earthquake, but they are few and far between. But I think it 308 00:26:37,640 --> 00:26:44,799 was around March or April nineteen twenty three that the area did did suffer an 309 00:26:44,839 --> 00:26:49,759 earthquake or be subjects of an earthquake. So that maybe feeds in to the 310 00:26:52,160 --> 00:26:57,799 earth light spooklike type theory of what these lights were. But you know, 311 00:26:59,200 --> 00:27:06,319 I have discounted that because the earthlights like the ones in the normal Hassled and 312 00:27:06,720 --> 00:27:10,720 lights in Norway, et cetera. You know, they have been videoed and 313 00:27:10,839 --> 00:27:14,920 they're you know, they're quite short lived really and don't seem to be acting 314 00:27:14,960 --> 00:27:19,680 with any purpose, whereas the descriptions we get from the lights of Burton ass 315 00:27:19,759 --> 00:27:26,720 It do seem to have some sort of purpose to them. And yeah, 316 00:27:26,720 --> 00:27:33,119 I mean again, I like to think of them as one of two things, 317 00:27:33,160 --> 00:27:37,400 either probes that have come down and looking at the area because the area 318 00:27:37,480 --> 00:27:44,920 has some geological interest to them, or intelligent light forms, which as the 319 00:27:45,000 --> 00:27:52,640 term Paul Sinclair coined for his sightings out on the Northeast coast, and the 320 00:27:52,640 --> 00:28:00,880 intelligent life form hypothesis I do think fits a lot. And I I describe 321 00:28:00,400 --> 00:28:10,039 I go into in the book some accounts of commercial pilots who have seen and 322 00:28:10,319 --> 00:28:17,039 had real interactions with intelligence life forms, and you know, the more I 323 00:28:17,119 --> 00:28:19,240 read, the more we research about them, that that does seem to be 324 00:28:23,240 --> 00:28:29,799 more likely, I think than perhaps mechanical not some bolts craft. I do 325 00:28:29,839 --> 00:28:37,599 think there is something in this intelligent like form, a sort of entity in 326 00:28:37,640 --> 00:28:41,960 itself, rather than rather than something mechanical, as you said, Yeah, 327 00:28:42,039 --> 00:28:45,799 yeah, I think that's a good way of putting it. Yeah, I 328 00:28:45,799 --> 00:28:52,079 mean I was. I was very much in the nuts and bolts camp and 329 00:28:52,480 --> 00:29:02,400 these light objects being extraterrestrial origin, I guess I've I've moved somewhat more towards 330 00:29:02,480 --> 00:29:10,880 into dimensional origins. Or it's certainly that is a possibility, yea, And 331 00:29:11,480 --> 00:29:15,440 yeah, because the intelligent like form phenomena, they do seem to be, 332 00:29:17,200 --> 00:29:18,920 you know, for want of a better word, creatures in their own right, 333 00:29:19,000 --> 00:29:23,839 with their own intelligence that can appear and disappear and move search for things 334 00:29:25,519 --> 00:29:27,920 have you know. And again I give a description of in the book of 335 00:29:27,920 --> 00:29:33,079 how one of these light lights illuminated a house as if looking for something, 336 00:29:34,519 --> 00:29:38,519 and it was and the person in the house described it as enough to read 337 00:29:38,559 --> 00:29:45,039 by wow. Yeah, so so there is something in that And isn't it 338 00:29:45,880 --> 00:29:51,079 Yeah, yeah, a little bit sort of stein tingling tingling real, isn't 339 00:29:51,079 --> 00:29:53,079 it? Yeah? It is? I mean, you know, what what 340 00:29:53,359 --> 00:29:59,319 were they doing? But yeah, so I managed to find just through my 341 00:29:59,480 --> 00:30:06,680 research of intelligent like forms, I found a really interesting story of a commercial 342 00:30:06,759 --> 00:30:21,519 pilot that, whilst on a a flight between Germany and England, had a 343 00:30:21,680 --> 00:30:26,880 citing him and his core pilot had a sighting of of two intelligence life forms. 344 00:30:26,960 --> 00:30:32,720 And then I don't want to spoil it for the people buy the book 345 00:30:32,759 --> 00:30:40,880 but basically he has an amazing experience interaction with that like form that goes on 346 00:30:41,000 --> 00:30:45,440 for a period of time afterwards. And yeah, quite a remarkable story which 347 00:30:45,839 --> 00:30:48,519 you know has never been published before. So yeah, that that is in 348 00:30:48,559 --> 00:30:52,880 the book as well, which I'm really pleased about. So can I can 349 00:30:52,920 --> 00:30:56,480 I just tease a little bit how to you. I don't want you to 350 00:30:57,000 --> 00:31:03,680 go into it because it will deter people from buying the book, and I'm 351 00:31:03,720 --> 00:31:08,000 all for for you know, fellow authors. Well, he's yeah, so 352 00:31:08,160 --> 00:31:12,720 he was he was on a flight and he saw he saw a light very 353 00:31:12,759 --> 00:31:19,279 similar to what was described in in Bernandasse in that time nineteen twenty two twenty 354 00:31:19,319 --> 00:31:26,000 three, and he's he's flying a cargo plane actually, and he sees two 355 00:31:26,079 --> 00:31:33,119 lights coming towards him, green lights, and he knows they're not aircraft lights 356 00:31:33,160 --> 00:31:36,839 because they're on the wrong side. So in order for them to be at 357 00:31:36,839 --> 00:31:40,319 the side he's seeing him, it means the plane to flying black backwards right, 358 00:31:40,480 --> 00:31:44,359 And he wakes up his core pilot and these two lights approach him at 359 00:31:44,400 --> 00:31:49,599 speed, and one goes above the plane and one goes underneath the plane, 360 00:31:51,200 --> 00:31:56,519 and the one above he manages to see fly off the one that goes underneath 361 00:31:56,559 --> 00:32:01,319 he loses track of I'm not sure where that went, but there is a 362 00:32:01,519 --> 00:32:08,079 remarkable story of what he says happened to him after that after he saw that 363 00:32:08,200 --> 00:32:15,519 light. And it's interesting you mentioned about the geology as well, just going 364 00:32:15,559 --> 00:32:24,279 back to the area around where all these these lights were being seen, because 365 00:32:24,319 --> 00:32:30,440 I agree that there is there is something to do with geology with a lot 366 00:32:30,480 --> 00:32:36,640 of these repeated sightings and areas where there are a number of sightings. And 367 00:32:36,720 --> 00:32:42,039 I just thought it was interesting that you mentioned that there was an earthquake shortly 368 00:32:42,079 --> 00:32:47,440 afterwards, and I wonder if there's a correlation between between the two things. 369 00:32:47,839 --> 00:32:55,359 Yeah, it would certainly lend itself to that if if you'd go down the 370 00:32:57,680 --> 00:33:02,240 earth light theory. And also we have the roll Right Stones, which are 371 00:33:02,559 --> 00:33:09,720 ten miles sort of due northeast of Burton. That's it now. The all 372 00:33:09,759 --> 00:33:17,359 Right Stones are an ancient monument date from something around the time of Stonehenge, 373 00:33:17,400 --> 00:33:24,640 so two thy five hundred BC something like that, and they are a ring 374 00:33:24,920 --> 00:33:32,200 of stones that are only a sort of knee high something are a bit bigger 375 00:33:32,240 --> 00:33:36,599 than that, but they go from knee high up to maybe chest head height. 376 00:33:37,480 --> 00:33:40,599 And the interesting thing about that is so the legend goeses no matter how 377 00:33:40,640 --> 00:33:45,720 many times you count them, you never get the same number twice. But 378 00:33:45,920 --> 00:33:49,240 I have to add that it does work. So there's somewhere. Even in 379 00:33:49,279 --> 00:33:53,039 the guidebooks they's say there's somewhere between seventy nine to eighty five stones, because 380 00:33:53,079 --> 00:33:58,880 no one's ever really got to the bottom of how many there in that. 381 00:33:59,039 --> 00:34:01,440 Yeah, but that has been an area of report. You've got like blue 382 00:34:01,720 --> 00:34:08,480 lights earthlights being seen there, so they're not too far away. And the 383 00:34:08,480 --> 00:34:13,880 the ground of Burton d Asset is built on an iron ore sort of iron 384 00:34:13,920 --> 00:34:20,440 ore rock foundation, and so much to it was used for mining in the 385 00:34:20,800 --> 00:34:29,480 in sort of Dark Ages and the forgetting mine out. So when you go 386 00:34:29,559 --> 00:34:35,000 to the park there is lots of scoops out of the ground which are open 387 00:34:35,079 --> 00:34:39,039 casts, small open cast mines which probably date from the Dark Ages and so 388 00:34:39,320 --> 00:34:45,320 up until nineteen nineteen. So during the First World War there was a railway 389 00:34:45,440 --> 00:34:51,039 line that went up to the top of the hills because it was used for 390 00:34:51,119 --> 00:34:54,840 mining. And the iron ore has been taken out for the First World War. 391 00:34:54,920 --> 00:35:06,199 So the geology of the of the area is important and again this this 392 00:35:06,440 --> 00:35:08,000 may be out at left field, but I did feel it was important to 393 00:35:08,039 --> 00:35:14,039 include it in the book. Is because you've you've got these three main hills 394 00:35:14,559 --> 00:35:19,199 that are on the west side of the park and they very much match up 395 00:35:19,239 --> 00:35:25,480 with Orion's belt, so they have that two parallel and one slightly off formation. 396 00:35:28,079 --> 00:35:30,519 And you know, I've done it myself. You go up there in 397 00:35:30,559 --> 00:35:38,719 February and Ryan Orion as a constellation and it looks like Oryan is stood on 398 00:35:38,840 --> 00:35:46,119 the hills and Orion's belt correlates to the hills below it sort of thing which 399 00:35:46,280 --> 00:35:51,880 which again I find fascinating. And it was one of those things with all 400 00:35:51,880 --> 00:35:54,320 of Burndas. If it was just one thing on its own, then you 401 00:35:54,320 --> 00:35:59,840 would probably discount it. But it has all these factors, these sights, 402 00:36:00,719 --> 00:36:12,159 the church, the military base, the links to Oriyon, the witchcraft and 403 00:36:12,199 --> 00:36:15,599 all these sort of things all in the sort of same area. So yeah, 404 00:36:15,679 --> 00:36:20,840 So just going back to your point, Craig, it is and it 405 00:36:20,960 --> 00:36:23,199 is one of the reasons that it could be these type of earth lights. 406 00:36:23,519 --> 00:36:31,559 But the witness reports, the witness reports that we have gathered do say that 407 00:36:31,639 --> 00:36:37,400 the lights have do seem to have a purpose they you know, interact with 408 00:36:37,480 --> 00:36:44,519 people, they're scanning the area, they're moving in purposely as if searching for 409 00:36:44,559 --> 00:36:47,679 something. So I don't think they are the earthlights, but I can completely 410 00:36:47,760 --> 00:36:52,920 understand why people would think that. And I suppose with all these things, 411 00:36:52,920 --> 00:36:54,960 you know that the book is there, the information is there, people will 412 00:36:55,039 --> 00:37:00,920 make their own their own minds as to what it was. Yeah, no, 413 00:37:00,039 --> 00:37:04,559 it's it is interesting. There's there's obviously a lot of different factors, 414 00:37:04,599 --> 00:37:07,559 isn't there. It's one of those areas that there seem to be a lot 415 00:37:07,599 --> 00:37:13,039 of a lot of different different factors that all sort of come together that you 416 00:37:13,079 --> 00:37:17,280 can you can sort of see why it will be an area of uh, 417 00:37:19,280 --> 00:37:23,920 you know, high instances of of of these strange, strange types of phenomena. 418 00:37:24,159 --> 00:37:29,280 Yeah, I mean again, you know, so I mentioned within the 419 00:37:29,280 --> 00:37:34,480 book we do all these areas. Pendle is what rendalsomp Forest is another. 420 00:37:34,840 --> 00:37:37,480 And you and you you just in the UK that is you know, and 421 00:37:37,559 --> 00:37:44,719 you tend to find that these areas have a depth of high strangers back going 422 00:37:44,760 --> 00:37:47,679 back a long time, and that has something to do with it. And 423 00:37:49,039 --> 00:37:52,039 you know, a lot of people that know the subject far better than me 424 00:37:52,119 --> 00:37:53,960 would say that they are all connected. Even as far as you know, 425 00:37:54,679 --> 00:38:00,960 dog men and were wolves and various different sightings all seem to be connected around 426 00:38:01,000 --> 00:38:09,360 these areas. But you know, I mean, I have primarily concentrated on 427 00:38:09,400 --> 00:38:15,199 the ufology angle. I do drift a bit into into witchcraft, but generally 428 00:38:15,599 --> 00:38:19,760 it's that's what I'm looking at. But I have no doubt there is many 429 00:38:20,079 --> 00:38:23,760 there's many strange things that happen in I mean Burtondasset Country Park. It's it's 430 00:38:23,880 --> 00:38:27,679 quite small, you know, it's maybe a mile and a half by a 431 00:38:27,719 --> 00:38:30,480 mile and a half. It's not a big area, and you can walk 432 00:38:30,480 --> 00:38:34,119 around it in a in an afternoon or a morning, so it's quite quite 433 00:38:34,360 --> 00:38:37,679 but it has all these sort of areas within it. Quite concentrated. Then, 434 00:38:37,280 --> 00:38:40,199 yeah, it's it's very concentrated. You drive, you drive up to 435 00:38:40,239 --> 00:38:43,480 it. It's a very steep drive up to it, and then you're on 436 00:38:43,519 --> 00:38:47,480 the sort of plateau with the five hills there. There's a wood at the 437 00:38:47,519 --> 00:38:52,679 back of it. The church is down a sort of a side lane and 438 00:38:52,800 --> 00:38:58,039 you can pass between north End and fenny Compton, the two villages, and 439 00:38:58,119 --> 00:39:00,880 a lot of people have said to me they've bought book and then gone to 440 00:39:00,920 --> 00:39:02,760 the area and use the book as a bit of a guide book, which 441 00:39:02,760 --> 00:39:07,000 I think is a is a great thing to do. Absolutely. So you 442 00:39:07,079 --> 00:39:14,079 mentioned witchcraft, which is a subject that I'm quite interested in, obviously because 443 00:39:14,119 --> 00:39:16,599 of because of where I live. I mean, is there a history of 444 00:39:16,639 --> 00:39:21,519 witchcraft in the area. Do you think do you think that might have anything 445 00:39:21,599 --> 00:39:27,039 to do with with historical sightings? Well, I'm not sure about the sightings, 446 00:39:27,039 --> 00:39:30,360 but there was witchcraft connected with the area, definitely. So this what's 447 00:39:30,599 --> 00:39:36,880 bout my interest on the witchcraft is one of the updates and a number of 448 00:39:36,920 --> 00:39:40,320 new updates and your own personal experiences in the area in the new book. 449 00:39:40,800 --> 00:39:47,480 And we were I was taking I do tours sometimes so people can can contact 450 00:39:47,519 --> 00:39:52,960 me on my email and and I'll take them and take them for a walk 451 00:39:52,960 --> 00:39:57,760 around the area and show them the area and explain the story. And a 452 00:39:57,800 --> 00:40:00,320 couple of fellow authors actually came up to to see me, and we had 453 00:40:00,320 --> 00:40:06,920 to walk around the area. And we walked into foxcover wood, which is 454 00:40:07,159 --> 00:40:10,559 which is a small wood of the on the eastern side the back of the 455 00:40:10,639 --> 00:40:15,159 hills really and there is a there is a clear ring which is about halfway 456 00:40:15,159 --> 00:40:21,320 around a path which takes you around the wood which I have done a bit 457 00:40:21,360 --> 00:40:25,920 of wild camping there before, and it is it is a perfect area for 458 00:40:27,000 --> 00:40:30,039 that sort of thing. But it was always clear, clear before and it 459 00:40:30,119 --> 00:40:35,440 was unspoilt. But this time when we walked in there, this would have 460 00:40:35,480 --> 00:40:43,000 been about May two thousand and twenty two, when we walked in, as 461 00:40:43,000 --> 00:40:50,039 you approached, the area of a pentagram had been sprayed. It looked like 462 00:40:50,119 --> 00:40:55,519 with white spray onto a tree as you approached it in a circle, and 463 00:40:55,599 --> 00:40:59,800 on one side of the tree, on the floor there was a dotted line 464 00:41:00,119 --> 00:41:01,519 and the other one there was a solid line, solid line, so it 465 00:41:01,559 --> 00:41:07,320 was clearly an entrance into an area. So you walk through the dotted line 466 00:41:07,360 --> 00:41:12,519 and there's a sort of loosely marked out path and it took you into this 467 00:41:12,559 --> 00:41:16,320 sort of natural cathedral, natural arena really where there was a tree in the 468 00:41:16,360 --> 00:41:24,000 center. Again it had the pentagon symbol spread on and then another symbol which 469 00:41:24,119 --> 00:41:29,800 was a bit like an hour glass type symbol and triangles, and then on 470 00:41:29,920 --> 00:41:36,760 the trees there were strange symbols or letters and numbers or letters and numbers all 471 00:41:36,760 --> 00:41:38,440 in a circle, and it was immaculate. It had been cleared out, 472 00:41:38,639 --> 00:41:43,320 there's no rubbish there or anything. And then every so often there was these 473 00:41:45,199 --> 00:41:51,039 little constructions of branches where I would say two people could sit in, with 474 00:41:51,119 --> 00:41:54,679 evidence that the fires had been lit there. So I walked around and took 475 00:41:54,719 --> 00:42:00,280 photos of it all, and I put some photos into the book, and 476 00:42:00,320 --> 00:42:04,039 it really sort of piqued me interest as to well the fact it was happening 477 00:42:04,079 --> 00:42:08,079 modern day and and what it all meant. So I carried out a bit 478 00:42:08,119 --> 00:42:10,840 of research. I thought, who's going to know about this? Well, 479 00:42:10,920 --> 00:42:16,840 a witch will know about it, possibly if it's a wickan or pagan it. 480 00:42:17,519 --> 00:42:22,639 I was happy that it wasn't Satanic because of the little I knew the 481 00:42:22,719 --> 00:42:24,719 way the pentagons were. They had to start at the top rather than the 482 00:42:24,760 --> 00:42:30,000 two stars either side, which is supposed to look like a goat and symbolize 483 00:42:30,039 --> 00:42:34,599 the devil. So I was happy it was a It was a pentagon and 484 00:42:34,360 --> 00:42:38,480 a and a wicker or pagan area rather than a Satanic area. So I 485 00:42:38,480 --> 00:42:44,039 thought, well, I'll need to speak to somebody that does witchcraft. So 486 00:42:44,079 --> 00:42:52,280 I managed to find a lady in Glastonbury and she told me what it what 487 00:42:52,360 --> 00:42:58,119 it was and what all the symbols meant and what her theory was around it, 488 00:42:58,280 --> 00:43:04,760 and she I think the thing she was she was in one way pleased 489 00:43:04,840 --> 00:43:07,679 to see it, and she give an explanation which a detailed the book of 490 00:43:07,760 --> 00:43:12,400 what it might be all about. But what she was a bit dismayed at 491 00:43:12,440 --> 00:43:15,320 was the fact that what should have been used to mark out these areas was 492 00:43:15,360 --> 00:43:21,639 ash rather than spray paint. So that give her a clue as to who 493 00:43:21,679 --> 00:43:24,039 she thought had done it. But it was really interesting. And then and 494 00:43:24,079 --> 00:43:29,239 then from there I looked back in look back in the area, and there 495 00:43:29,280 --> 00:43:35,400 had been a couple of Satanic murders, and the reason why they were classed 496 00:43:35,400 --> 00:43:40,239 as Satanic murders because there was there was a there was a murder just after 497 00:43:40,280 --> 00:43:51,400 the war were a normal perhaps well to do you know mild mannered man had 498 00:43:51,519 --> 00:43:58,800 had gone a bit a rye and killed a random woman in the street with 499 00:43:58,840 --> 00:44:02,320 a pitchfork. Yeah, so the pitch the pitch for death by pitchfork is 500 00:44:02,360 --> 00:44:08,400 trasitionally a way that you would you could kill a witch. Okay, I've 501 00:44:08,400 --> 00:44:12,239 never heard that one. Yeah, this is this is where I had come 502 00:44:12,239 --> 00:44:15,199 across as well. And then that was just before the war. And then 503 00:44:15,320 --> 00:44:20,400 round about I think it was nineteen or three or something like that, a 504 00:44:20,719 --> 00:44:28,239 police constable in the Kate was supposed betawling the Lion pub in fenny Compton. 505 00:44:28,559 --> 00:44:34,199 Disappeared from his beat but was found in the Oxford Canal a couple of days 506 00:44:34,280 --> 00:44:39,960 later, and he'd been killed with a pitchfork and they had never found anybody 507 00:44:40,920 --> 00:44:45,679 for that murder. So yeah, so that there is, and again I'd 508 00:44:45,679 --> 00:44:50,559 go into more details within the book, but there is these these two satanic 509 00:44:50,679 --> 00:44:55,800 murders that were in that area, so dating back to the turn of the 510 00:44:55,800 --> 00:45:00,480 twentieth century again but no doubt, no going back a lot further. And 511 00:45:00,559 --> 00:45:06,360 when you look at the map, what's what's remarkable to me is the area 512 00:45:06,400 --> 00:45:13,920 where this pagan wicker Sight is is exactly the mirror image where all Saints churches 513 00:45:14,039 --> 00:45:17,960 just the other side of the park. So it's almost as if it's been 514 00:45:19,039 --> 00:45:24,679 chosen out because it, you know, it's the opposite of the Christian Church. 515 00:45:25,239 --> 00:45:30,559 Yeah, that's interesting. I mean you mentioned the last time we spoke 516 00:45:30,559 --> 00:45:35,199 about the Christian Church, when just just recently there's there's that's that's quite an 517 00:45:35,239 --> 00:45:38,119 interesting building in itself, isn't that. Yeah, yeah, so All Saints 518 00:45:38,239 --> 00:45:44,519 Church is sometimes called the Cathedral. The Cotswolves started off as a Saxon nave, 519 00:45:45,000 --> 00:45:52,679 but and then in the eighth ninth century was recorded in the Doomsday Book 520 00:45:52,960 --> 00:45:59,000 following the Norman conquest, which I think Doomsday Book was ten eighty seven as 521 00:45:59,039 --> 00:46:06,400 a Saxon nave. But around about the fourteenth century it receives a big uplift 522 00:46:06,519 --> 00:46:12,320 in cash, probably Templar cash, and the Knights Temple were based that there 523 00:46:12,400 --> 00:46:16,960 was a They had a base at hem Temple Hedwig, which is directly opposite 524 00:46:17,119 --> 00:46:23,400 and more or less underneath now the military base of Mr d Kiton, But 525 00:46:23,719 --> 00:46:29,559 it did have a big uplifting money the church and within the church it also 526 00:46:29,719 --> 00:46:37,199 had the paintings which are initially as you walk into the church there is paintings 527 00:46:37,199 --> 00:46:44,800 of the Virgin Murray and Saint Michael above the eastern sort of side of the 528 00:46:44,920 --> 00:46:50,119 church and they're fantastic and writing more than life size. And then on the 529 00:46:50,159 --> 00:46:53,840 left hand side of the wall there is pictures of as described as a gargole 530 00:46:53,960 --> 00:46:59,760 or an angel type character doesn't look like either, to be honest, but 531 00:46:59,800 --> 00:47:02,039 there a strange there's a strange character but drawn on the wall. And then 532 00:47:02,079 --> 00:47:09,239 there's two kings, and there's different there's different stories around that, but one 533 00:47:09,320 --> 00:47:15,960 king is holding is holding a head, and that's believed to be the official 534 00:47:16,599 --> 00:47:21,320 literature. If you like, would they would say that these paintings are fourteenth 535 00:47:21,320 --> 00:47:25,559 century paintings of ninth century kings, and that and that king who's holding his 536 00:47:25,599 --> 00:47:31,239 old head is is King Ethelbert, who was beheaded in Winchester not too far 537 00:47:31,320 --> 00:47:37,039 away. And then another another king, which the church would say is a 538 00:47:37,119 --> 00:47:43,000 mage eye, so one of the three wise men, because he is he 539 00:47:43,079 --> 00:47:45,840 is holding a bottle in his left hand up into the air. Now that 540 00:47:46,360 --> 00:47:52,039 bottle to me looks like a child's top. It's got underlating lines on it, 541 00:47:52,119 --> 00:47:58,480 perhaps to give the appearance that it is spinning. But the the real 542 00:47:58,800 --> 00:48:02,320 eureka moment for me was when I when I first saw that painting of the 543 00:48:02,679 --> 00:48:09,599 king with this with this orb or bottle on his hand. Is that the 544 00:48:09,599 --> 00:48:15,079 the bottle is not resting on his hand. It's floating about two or three 545 00:48:15,159 --> 00:48:19,239 cent to me two or three inches sorry, above his hand. It's been 546 00:48:19,280 --> 00:48:24,760 deliberately portrayed as floating, so it's a revolving orb floating in the air and 547 00:48:24,960 --> 00:48:28,400 when you again, when you look at everything else that's going on, a 548 00:48:28,480 --> 00:48:31,800 burned that's it, you know. And my view is that is maybe depicting 549 00:48:32,039 --> 00:48:38,280 a u a p and unidentified flying object that was seen perhaps in the ninth 550 00:48:38,320 --> 00:48:43,280 century by a local king and they wanted to claim the kudos of it, 551 00:48:43,360 --> 00:48:47,480 claim control of it. Yeah, yeah, yeah, But again the pictures 552 00:48:47,920 --> 00:48:51,800 are in the book and I would just ask anyone to have a look and 553 00:48:52,079 --> 00:48:54,559 see what you think. I mean, there has been some erosion, either 554 00:48:54,639 --> 00:49:00,239 deliberately, because I'll be honest, the church hasn't been either in twenty nineteen 555 00:49:00,360 --> 00:49:06,280 or when I updated the book, they haven't been that forthcoming, which is 556 00:49:06,280 --> 00:49:09,000 a bit of a shame really. So it's either they have this erosion between 557 00:49:09,000 --> 00:49:13,920 the hand and the bottle of the bottom of the object. But you can 558 00:49:13,960 --> 00:49:19,400 clearly see that the hand is, you know, two three inches below is 559 00:49:19,480 --> 00:49:24,960 floating orb So yeah, the church is interesting in itself, but I wonder 560 00:49:25,000 --> 00:49:29,480 if these paintings are telling is another story. And as well as that, 561 00:49:29,599 --> 00:49:35,559 we have unusual carvings on one side of the church and north side of the 562 00:49:35,639 --> 00:49:39,199 church which does face Burton d Asse. It is traditionally the evil side of 563 00:49:39,239 --> 00:49:44,119 a church, so gargoyles, etcetera be put on that side, so there's 564 00:49:44,159 --> 00:49:45,159 none on the other side. But on the north side of the church there's 565 00:49:45,159 --> 00:49:51,599 these fantastic carvings which depict the Green Man, which is often associated with two 566 00:49:52,480 --> 00:50:00,079 worlds, generally Christianity and Paganism joining together, but strange ani alls half lizard, 567 00:50:00,159 --> 00:50:07,079 half men type of animals, half dragon, half men animals, and 568 00:50:07,119 --> 00:50:12,719 two creatures which you're upside down, so where you've normally got the the their 569 00:50:12,760 --> 00:50:15,800 feet are on the bottom. Two creatures are actually upside down, as if 570 00:50:15,039 --> 00:50:22,239 perhaps floating up in the air, you know. So the the carvings and 571 00:50:22,280 --> 00:50:25,920 the paintings I think are key to the mystery of Burton ass it really yeah, 572 00:50:27,000 --> 00:50:30,159 I mean, the the the imagery that sort of you know, coming 573 00:50:30,159 --> 00:50:35,199 into into my mind as you're explaining them. I think it's quite interesting, 574 00:50:37,199 --> 00:50:44,639 especially the holding, the floating the floating oil bar or whatever it was. 575 00:50:44,679 --> 00:50:46,679 I think it's really interesting. And then you have to wonder, you know, 576 00:50:47,000 --> 00:50:52,840 where they were getting the ideas for these sort of quite fantastical creatures from 577 00:50:52,880 --> 00:50:58,760 as well. I mean, you know I did see these these things. 578 00:50:59,159 --> 00:51:00,639 Yeah, I mean, we you know, we we don't know. I 579 00:51:00,639 --> 00:51:07,719 mean the carvings of fourteenth century as well, and the other churches, because 580 00:51:07,760 --> 00:51:10,519 they all have carvings without without a doubt, but I think that the ones 581 00:51:10,559 --> 00:51:15,719 here are just a strange collection. There's a lot of strange carvings as opposed 582 00:51:15,760 --> 00:51:21,119 to your traditional angel heads and people's heads, et cetera. You know, 583 00:51:21,159 --> 00:51:24,639 there is these strange animals. I mean, the the the green Man depicted 584 00:51:24,719 --> 00:51:34,280 isn't that common in Christian churches either, isn't it really? It's generally a 585 00:51:34,320 --> 00:51:37,639 pagan thing, but it was often like a lot of things that the Christianity 586 00:51:37,679 --> 00:51:45,280 did was trying to supersede paganism, pagan festivals, et cetera, with Christian 587 00:51:45,320 --> 00:51:50,440 dogma. So the pagan was say that the green Man was often news as 588 00:51:50,480 --> 00:51:54,239 the joining together of paganism and Christianity. But it's still quite rare. And 589 00:51:54,280 --> 00:51:57,360 then you you've got these, I mean as if you look down, I 590 00:51:57,400 --> 00:52:01,400 think there was seven or eight columns. Everything has got something really unusual and 591 00:52:01,440 --> 00:52:07,039 interesting about it. Yeah, I think it sounds like, you know, 592 00:52:07,199 --> 00:52:10,400 the church itself is worth a visit, let alone, let alone the area. 593 00:52:12,440 --> 00:52:15,719 And and also I mean I wonder from what you just said there, 594 00:52:15,760 --> 00:52:22,400 whether there was some sort of you know, equally unexplainable event that perhaps happened, 595 00:52:22,559 --> 00:52:27,840 happened back in the Dark Ages in the thirteenth or fourteenth century, you 596 00:52:27,840 --> 00:52:36,320 know that that sort of prompted this almost like a visual record in the church 597 00:52:36,559 --> 00:52:43,519 of what people may have seen, because obviously they will have automatically linked anything 598 00:52:43,639 --> 00:52:49,480 strange that they saw to something you know, that that was that was maybe 599 00:52:49,639 --> 00:52:52,360 you know, created by God, or you know, some sort of vision 600 00:52:52,719 --> 00:52:57,840 vision of God or from God or something like that. So if if there 601 00:52:57,840 --> 00:53:00,280 were strange things going on at that time in history, then that's how they'd 602 00:53:00,320 --> 00:53:04,840 interpreted it, and wasn't they Yeah, I think, And the fact that 603 00:53:04,840 --> 00:53:09,079 these paintings survived as well, So my understanding was and I'm certainly an expert 604 00:53:09,119 --> 00:53:14,320 in medieval paintings and churches, but man stand, there's a lot of them 605 00:53:14,320 --> 00:53:17,159 were whitewashed over because of when the Puritans came in and because of the Reformation 606 00:53:17,719 --> 00:53:22,639 as well. But these seem to have survived. You know, they haven't 607 00:53:22,760 --> 00:53:29,639 been whitewashed over. People seem to have known instinctively that they're special and then 608 00:53:29,840 --> 00:53:34,920 they needed to be preserved and seen. So I do think it's just more 609 00:53:34,960 --> 00:53:39,400 than decoration. I do think that those pictures are telling us a story. 610 00:53:39,559 --> 00:53:45,360 But maybe about the UFOs. Other people would say that because they were probably 611 00:53:45,400 --> 00:53:49,639 created and paid for by the Knights Templar. Either depicting you know, the 612 00:53:49,639 --> 00:53:52,760 head of John the Baptist and the Holy Grail. I don't know, but 613 00:53:52,800 --> 00:53:58,079 people have put them theories forward and again I had discuss them in the book 614 00:53:58,079 --> 00:54:01,079 as to various different theories around the paintings. But for me, when you 615 00:54:01,159 --> 00:54:07,320 take it into context and put it alongside the military basis and the sightings of 616 00:54:07,400 --> 00:54:13,639 nineteen twenty two to twenty three, I think it's it is showing, it 617 00:54:13,719 --> 00:54:19,719 is depicting, or certainly the Maji figure is depicting an object that was seen 618 00:54:20,159 --> 00:54:27,039 floating flying around the area. Well, it's it's an amazing story, it 619 00:54:27,119 --> 00:54:30,920 really isn't It's You've done some amazing research as well, and I think I 620 00:54:30,960 --> 00:54:34,480 think it's great how it all. It all obviously comes together, It all 621 00:54:34,480 --> 00:54:39,320 obviously locks together and suggests that something is going on that we've we've not quite 622 00:54:39,320 --> 00:54:45,039 got that understanding for in you know, in that that relatively small area, 623 00:54:45,079 --> 00:54:49,519 isn't it as well? Which is quite interesting? So Yeah, it's it's 624 00:54:49,880 --> 00:54:55,800 I think it's fascinating better research. You mentioned the books on Amazon. Yeah, 625 00:54:55,840 --> 00:55:02,320 it's on Amazon, Kindle and Amazon as a paperback. The paperback. 626 00:55:02,960 --> 00:55:07,400 Very proud, was very keen with the paperback this time to have color photos 627 00:55:07,440 --> 00:55:10,159 because I really think it shows the details of the paintings and the carving. 628 00:55:10,239 --> 00:55:16,480 So we've got color photos in this time. Yeah, available on Amazon, 629 00:55:16,599 --> 00:55:21,679 and yeah, I hope people enjoy it and you know, make their own 630 00:55:21,719 --> 00:55:25,159 mind up. That's what I'm all about. I've put one theory for people 631 00:55:25,280 --> 00:55:29,719 and more than willing to listen to people disagree with me, and you know, 632 00:55:29,800 --> 00:55:31,719 contact me if there's any points you want to make. You know, 633 00:55:31,719 --> 00:55:36,199 it all adds to the story. Really. Yeah, what's what's your contact 634 00:55:36,199 --> 00:55:37,719 details if people want to get in contact with you? So it Yeah, 635 00:55:37,760 --> 00:55:45,800 so my email is Richard Rugby Rugby is r Okay e b y at yahoo 636 00:55:45,920 --> 00:55:51,199 dot com. Okay, excellent, Well it's been it's been really interesting talking 637 00:55:51,239 --> 00:55:52,840 to you again. I think it's fascinating subjects. I really do. There's 638 00:55:52,840 --> 00:55:57,079 there's lots of lots of things in there. I thing that are quite thought 639 00:55:57,079 --> 00:56:01,199 provoking. Yeah. I just help people by the book because it's obviously been 640 00:56:01,320 --> 00:56:07,519 very well researched and put together, and good luck for any any future projects 641 00:56:07,639 --> 00:56:14,440 that you've you've got on the go, anything in the pipeline. Well so, 642 00:56:14,559 --> 00:56:16,000 yeah, Well, firstly, Greig, thanks for having me on. 643 00:56:16,079 --> 00:56:21,800 I've always enjoyed the show, and yeah, absolutely and really really enjoyed our 644 00:56:21,880 --> 00:56:30,599 chat. I still have a couple of ideas to research the German flying saucer, 645 00:56:31,239 --> 00:56:35,280 Nazi flying saucer, Hitler's flying saucer, whatever you want to call it. 646 00:56:35,960 --> 00:56:39,000 That is that is a rabbit hole that you disappear down and is very 647 00:56:39,079 --> 00:56:43,840 dark. But I do feel that you know that that we've got a separate 648 00:56:43,920 --> 00:56:45,880 fact from fiction with with that, with those accounts, you know, did 649 00:56:46,519 --> 00:56:53,119 did the Third Right manage to get a flying saucer with anti gravity technology flying? 650 00:56:53,159 --> 00:56:57,960 And if so, how and why what happened to that technology? It's 651 00:56:58,000 --> 00:57:01,760 a fantastic story, but it is a huge piece of work. But I'm 652 00:57:01,800 --> 00:57:07,199 still chipping away that and then and then the other thing is my interest in 653 00:57:07,239 --> 00:57:13,320 remote viewing. I'm still working away at that. And again that's to do 654 00:57:13,400 --> 00:57:15,599 with the Cold War and remote viewing. How that's going forward? Is that 655 00:57:15,719 --> 00:57:19,440 still in use now? So? Yeah, I have. I have a 656 00:57:19,480 --> 00:57:23,239 couple of projects. They keep me busy. Well, we'll look forward to 657 00:57:23,239 --> 00:57:27,760 to seeing the fruits of your labors on those two. Thanks. Thanks again 658 00:57:27,800 --> 00:57:30,800 for coming on the podcast. It's been an absolute pleasure. It's it's always 659 00:57:30,800 --> 00:57:35,039 great speech here. It should take care and we won't mention the C word, 660 00:57:35,119 --> 00:57:38,760 but but have a great have a great time anyway. Yes, yeah, 661 00:57:38,880 --> 00:57:45,360 yeah for the holiday period. That's the one. That's the one great 662 00:57:46,000 --> 00:57:52,159 is tech care. Thank you. You can visit my website at www dot 663 00:57:52,159 --> 00:57:58,280 Craig Bryant dot co dot uk. Parimalpendle will return and remember to keep watching 664 00:57:58,320 --> 00:58:16,840 the shadows. Don't don't don'