WEBVTT 1 00:00:00.120 --> 00:00:03.160 And it hits me, Oh my gosh, this is that triangle. You 2 00:00:03.200 --> 00:00:07.240 know, there's explanation for everything that occurred in the Randallsham Cars incident that doesn't 3 00:00:07.280 --> 00:00:12.160 involve aliens at all. It was completely silent. It comes right over our 4 00:00:12.199 --> 00:00:18.440 heads. Soulsa really standing into clearly. He turned over to my father and 5 00:00:18.480 --> 00:00:20.719 held his hand, and he looked in his eyes and said, we're not 6 00:00:20.760 --> 00:00:29.800 alone. Hello everyone, it's Martin Willis your host. Welcome to podcast UFO. 7 00:00:30.280 --> 00:00:32.640 We have a great show for you this evening. A friend of mine, 8 00:00:32.840 --> 00:00:36.600 Peter Robbins, is going to be on. He's always entertaining, and 9 00:00:36.920 --> 00:00:42.719 we're gonna be talking a little bit about this amazing Russian close encounter that happened 10 00:00:42.759 --> 00:00:48.799 back in nineteen eighty nine. Very very interesting and just kind of out of 11 00:00:48.799 --> 00:00:52.479 this world, you know, nine foot creatures and all that. Really really 12 00:00:52.479 --> 00:00:55.240 interesting, out of this world. I guess you'd call that a pun. 13 00:00:55.920 --> 00:01:00.640 Anyway. Alejandro Rojasu be coming up in just a minute with UFO updates Live, 14 00:01:02.240 --> 00:01:04.599 and I want to thank you for supporting the show. You can support 15 00:01:04.599 --> 00:01:08.920 the show for a couple of dollars or more a month at Informations on Podcast 16 00:01:10.000 --> 00:01:14.480 UFO. Dot com. I notice we're getting a lot, a lot of 17 00:01:14.519 --> 00:01:18.200 downloads on our free shows because I can see it now, see how many 18 00:01:18.599 --> 00:01:22.879 there are, and pretty impressive, and you could help us out for just 19 00:01:22.959 --> 00:01:25.560 a couple of dollars to keep that in mind. If you can't, you 20 00:01:25.560 --> 00:01:30.200 can listen to the full show always on YouTube live or on podcast UFO Live. 21 00:01:30.280 --> 00:01:34.959 It's going to be this week and next week from one pm to three 22 00:01:34.959 --> 00:01:38.760 pm Eastern Standard Time. Then it's going back to the regular slot of eight 23 00:01:38.799 --> 00:01:42.680 pm to ten pm Eastern Standard time. You can also listen to the full 24 00:01:42.680 --> 00:01:46.959 show, excuse me, full show on the Dark Matter Digital Network and that's 25 00:01:47.040 --> 00:01:53.200 every Thursday evening and that's at let's see ten to midnight. And so that's 26 00:01:53.719 --> 00:01:59.159 that's it for me for now, Alejandro, what's going on? Not a 27 00:01:59.239 --> 00:02:01.599 whole life? You know, UFOs are going on. I shouldn't say that. 28 00:02:01.599 --> 00:02:05.760 There's a lot of good stories out there. But the first thing we 29 00:02:05.799 --> 00:02:09.000 have to do, I think, is go through our weekly list of apologies 30 00:02:10.560 --> 00:02:15.159 because we seem to be offending a lot of people lately. We offended the 31 00:02:15.319 --> 00:02:17.960 entire country of Canada last week. Apparently, no, actually it was just 32 00:02:19.080 --> 00:02:23.000 one person. Hopefully we didn't offend any everybody, but I do want to 33 00:02:23.000 --> 00:02:28.840 say apologize for my ignorance about Canada Day. It apparently is on the first, 34 00:02:28.960 --> 00:02:31.159 but that UFO sting we talked about said they were celebrating it on the 35 00:02:31.199 --> 00:02:36.120 second, which is their right to do. And of course we were teasing 36 00:02:37.400 --> 00:02:42.400 the Canadians about stealing our thunder and you know, choosing July first a few 37 00:02:42.479 --> 00:02:45.520 days before July fource so when July Force comes around, they could be like, 38 00:02:46.039 --> 00:02:50.120 we already partied. Man, you guys are behind the times. But 39 00:02:50.439 --> 00:02:53.439 yes, someone got a little upset about that. So I guess we were 40 00:02:53.560 --> 00:02:57.800 just having fun and that of course I love Canadians. We talk a lot 41 00:02:57.840 --> 00:03:02.240 about good stuff about Canadians, don't we. We certain actually yes, so 42 00:03:02.599 --> 00:03:07.240 Stanton of course is out there. Grant Cameron is a Canadians. We love 43 00:03:07.280 --> 00:03:10.719 Canadians. I had a Canadian on my show recently, who from Vancouver? 44 00:03:12.199 --> 00:03:15.879 Who did? Who? He's got this documentary called Nocturnal Lights made in Canada 45 00:03:16.080 --> 00:03:19.680 for the most part, which people have to check out. In fact, 46 00:03:19.719 --> 00:03:23.840 I think I think your guest might from today might even be in it, 47 00:03:24.240 --> 00:03:30.000 if I'm not mistaken. But anyway, uh yeah, Charles Lamreau was his 48 00:03:30.120 --> 00:03:37.039 name, and go Canada. Just wanted to say that, and don't worry 49 00:03:37.120 --> 00:03:40.240 if you are wondering, Hey, how come he's not apologizing for something he 50 00:03:40.319 --> 00:03:45.319 said about me in the region that I live. Don't worry. I'm sure. 51 00:03:45.520 --> 00:03:53.439 Just give it some time and we yeah, yeah, guaranteed. Yeah, 52 00:03:53.479 --> 00:03:54.879 well, you know, that's that's fine. You know we have, 53 00:03:55.919 --> 00:03:59.280 like you said, there's a lot of great people. And you and I 54 00:03:59.319 --> 00:04:03.879 were on M Bonaparte. So what's his first trying to remember his first name, 55 00:04:04.599 --> 00:04:09.120 Jordan Joe Jason, Jordan, Jordan Jordan Bonapartes. So we're on his 56 00:04:09.159 --> 00:04:13.360 show up in Canada together, you and I and I'm actually heading up there 57 00:04:13.400 --> 00:04:18.439 to Shag Harbor in October on the anniversary. I'm really excited to do that. 58 00:04:18.439 --> 00:04:25.439 That should be a lot of fun. Cool. Yeah, so what's 59 00:04:25.439 --> 00:04:27.519 going on? It should be fun, Yeah, it will be. So 60 00:04:27.600 --> 00:04:32.240 what's going on m in the UFO news currently? Yeah, So we have 61 00:04:32.319 --> 00:04:38.319 some cool sightings that Roger marsh I was one of them when I found I 62 00:04:38.319 --> 00:04:42.000 think these were both of these are both from Roger, but of course he's 63 00:04:42.040 --> 00:04:46.160 the director of communications to remove on and he posts some cool sightings on our 64 00:04:46.199 --> 00:04:49.560 site on a regular basis, and we have a couple of cool ones here. 65 00:04:49.600 --> 00:04:54.920 First of all from just the other day, and I love this one. 66 00:04:55.959 --> 00:05:00.360 Uh this is an aviation mechanic who is unable to identify a you're a 67 00:05:00.480 --> 00:05:06.480 shaped object. This was in Ohio, in Mahoning County. And the reason 68 00:05:06.519 --> 00:05:12.839 I giggled a little bit is because this guy was cruising his scooter, which 69 00:05:12.879 --> 00:05:15.720 is cool. Of course Arizona, we've got warm weather. We've got a 70 00:05:15.759 --> 00:05:19.160 lot of people, these these older retirees on their scooters cruising around. And 71 00:05:19.319 --> 00:05:24.680 at least this is the first time I can remember a UFO sighting from a 72 00:05:24.720 --> 00:05:28.279 scooter, which is kind of cool. Those guys are scooting around quite a 73 00:05:28.360 --> 00:05:31.000 bit. So you know, if you are scooting around right now while you're 74 00:05:31.000 --> 00:05:34.360 listening to this podcast, keep your eyes to the sky. You may see 75 00:05:34.399 --> 00:05:40.199 something strange like this gentleman. So anyway, this was on at about ten 76 00:05:40.279 --> 00:05:44.800 pm on June tenth. Although I don't know, scooting at night might be 77 00:05:44.920 --> 00:05:50.879 dangerous, but so be careful out there. But this guy says he went 78 00:05:51.720 --> 00:05:55.639 when he saw this thing, he went to grab his cell phone charger out 79 00:05:55.639 --> 00:05:58.600 of his scooter. Or no, he went to go grab his cellphone charger 80 00:05:58.720 --> 00:06:05.199 out of his scooter and when he saw this object that he took a picture 81 00:06:05.279 --> 00:06:10.800 of and got a little bit of video. But he says that he worked 82 00:06:10.800 --> 00:06:15.040 on f sixteens. He has knowledge of planes and helicopters and falling space objects, 83 00:06:15.040 --> 00:06:19.800 but he was not able to identify what this object is. We do 84 00:06:19.959 --> 00:06:27.160 have the pictures, he says to him. It looks fear shaped in the 85 00:06:27.199 --> 00:06:32.720 pictures. It looks more like an elongated object. But yeah, it's it's 86 00:06:32.759 --> 00:06:38.319 not readily apparent what it is. And of course this person has experience with 87 00:06:38.399 --> 00:06:42.120 looking at aircraft and he couldn't identify it. So it's an interesting one. 88 00:06:42.759 --> 00:06:48.839 It's being investigated by Joseph Pavlanski if or Ohio Mufon right now, so we'll 89 00:06:48.879 --> 00:06:51.360 see what they figure out there. But that's that's kind of a cool when 90 00:06:51.360 --> 00:06:54.040 you saw that, right, Oh yeah, yeah, I think it's a 91 00:06:54.120 --> 00:06:59.600 really interesting one. And then another interesting one where there were at least a 92 00:06:59.639 --> 00:07:06.480 couple of witnesses. Uh was gentleman in California, Landers, California. That's 93 00:07:06.519 --> 00:07:11.600 another town name that for some reason makes me laugh. I guess it's because 94 00:07:11.600 --> 00:07:15.480 I think of Flanders. The Flanders. You know that. The Simpsons, 95 00:07:15.519 --> 00:07:19.720 of course, funny people. Oh yeah, I'm gonna get We're gonna get 96 00:07:19.759 --> 00:07:28.079 emails from Landers now saying we're But this is an interesting one because this, 97 00:07:28.079 --> 00:07:33.199 this gentleman says he believes, you know, this aircraft or this this object 98 00:07:33.639 --> 00:07:40.720 was being chased by a jet and this was seen during a UFO conference in 99 00:07:40.759 --> 00:07:45.199 the Joshua Tree area. So this happened on May twenty first. It was 100 00:07:45.279 --> 00:07:49.079 also about ten pm. The video they did capture some video and it was 101 00:07:49.120 --> 00:07:54.480 with night vision goggles and in the view you do see two sets of lights. 102 00:07:55.079 --> 00:07:58.959 You see one set behind another. The first set has, you know, 103 00:07:59.000 --> 00:08:01.399 the lights are consistent they're on. The second set are blinking, so 104 00:08:01.519 --> 00:08:05.560 you can tell it's an aircraft. The witnesses, of which there were quite 105 00:08:05.560 --> 00:08:09.480 a few, said that they could hear the jet noise, you know, 106 00:08:09.560 --> 00:08:13.160 so they knew that there was a jet. I guess there were about fifty 107 00:08:13.199 --> 00:08:18.319 people out there looking for UFOs when they saw this. Somebody had a pair 108 00:08:18.360 --> 00:08:22.319 of night vision goggles and they said they felt that they could tell what the 109 00:08:22.360 --> 00:08:26.399 shape of the object is and that it was recortain or a diamond shaped. 110 00:08:28.879 --> 00:08:31.480 A lot of people though, you know, when you hear that diamond shape, 111 00:08:31.639 --> 00:08:39.000 it often triggers this kind of red flag, which is just that often 112 00:08:39.039 --> 00:08:43.200 the aperture and cameras is diamond shaped in a bright light kind of feels it's 113 00:08:43.240 --> 00:08:48.480 so strong that it takes the shape of the aperture. So that's a possibility. 114 00:08:48.600 --> 00:08:54.159 People who know more about this equipment no better than I could probably make 115 00:08:54.240 --> 00:08:58.240 some more educated comments on that. That's possibly why she saw a diamond shape. 116 00:08:58.279 --> 00:09:05.080 But yeah, so this is an interesting sighting. I know the person 117 00:09:05.200 --> 00:09:09.480 investigating this is Earl Gray Anderson, so he's a cool dude. He is 118 00:09:09.600 --> 00:09:16.399 in our Open Mind UFO forum news forum quite a bit and commenting. So 119 00:09:16.639 --> 00:09:20.440 really good guy Earl Gray out there in California. And I love his name 120 00:09:22.000 --> 00:09:26.679 because it harkens back to, of course Jean Luc Picard. Another name I 121 00:09:26.799 --> 00:09:30.039 like to say it is that of course it sounds French. Maybe he's French 122 00:09:30.120 --> 00:09:35.720 Canadian Jean Luc Picard. But I feel like I should drink Earl Gray tea. 123 00:09:35.919 --> 00:09:39.480 I know, I was feeling like I should get up and get some 124 00:09:39.559 --> 00:09:43.360 tea right now, but yeah, he should in honor of Earl Gray. 125 00:09:43.399 --> 00:09:46.240 Maybe he's even listening so a really neat guy out of California. He's investigating. 126 00:09:46.399 --> 00:09:50.799 He does. He is a little bit wary, he says, though, 127 00:09:50.919 --> 00:09:58.039 because we have seen from this conference other pictures and videos of alleged objects 128 00:09:58.080 --> 00:10:03.080 and beings that do not pan out. So especially at this conference, there's 129 00:10:03.159 --> 00:10:07.440 kind of a frenzy, you know, where people are are talking about UFOs 130 00:10:07.440 --> 00:10:11.919 and aliens. So people want to see UFO and aliens, and it seems 131 00:10:11.919 --> 00:10:16.879 like they have misidentified some pictures and images in the past. So he's a 132 00:10:16.919 --> 00:10:22.320 little worried that maybe this kind of uh you know, need or frenzy to 133 00:10:22.399 --> 00:10:26.519 see something weird has influenced their opinions. But yeah, he's looking into it 134 00:10:26.559 --> 00:10:30.639 and we'll see what he discovers. Hey, Alan Hunter, we have a 135 00:10:30.639 --> 00:10:33.240 lot of people up in the in the chat room UM and one just posts 136 00:10:33.240 --> 00:10:37.240 a quick question for you. They want to know if there was any possibility 137 00:10:37.360 --> 00:10:43.679 of ordering back issues of the UM you know, the UFO magazine. Oh 138 00:10:46.200 --> 00:10:48.840 is that a real chatter? Oh yes, that's awesome. That that's like 139 00:10:50.159 --> 00:10:54.559 set spike, you know, perfect, They're setting me up to promo the 140 00:10:54.639 --> 00:11:00.559 magazines. Yes, and I love that question because our magazines. I love 141 00:11:00.600 --> 00:11:05.120 our magazine so much in fact behind me, and maybe that's what triggered that 142 00:11:05.159 --> 00:11:07.840 thought. You can see some of our posters of our magazine covers. In 143 00:11:07.919 --> 00:11:13.279 fact, this one here is written by Ryan Sprague, and he references your 144 00:11:13.360 --> 00:11:20.440 guest a lot in the article he wrote in this this uh particular issue. 145 00:11:20.879 --> 00:11:26.000 But anyway, um, Ryan is just giving a shout out as we speak 146 00:11:26.039 --> 00:11:33.000 on the chart room. Really he's a cool dude. Love that guy Sprague 147 00:11:33.000 --> 00:11:37.320 too. Oh, I keep saying it wrong. Damn. He corrected me 148 00:11:37.440 --> 00:11:41.399 last time he was on my show. Sprague, It's Sprague. Oh, 149 00:11:41.519 --> 00:11:48.159 I'm sorry, but I guess I shouldn't worry. People have been pronounced my 150 00:11:48.240 --> 00:11:52.679 name a lot and I don't mind. But anyway, Yes, you can 151 00:11:52.679 --> 00:11:56.039 go to open mind stat tv. Click on the shop link and you'll be 152 00:11:56.159 --> 00:12:01.399 able to um order some videos. Sorry, pause there because I just got 153 00:12:01.440 --> 00:12:07.120 fired from Peter Robin. You're fire. He's very upset about me mispronouncing it 154 00:12:07.159 --> 00:12:11.840 is good buddies, there's a little buddy's name there. But yeah, you 155 00:12:11.879 --> 00:12:16.519 can't go to open minds dot tv and you can't order back orders. We're 156 00:12:16.559 --> 00:12:22.759 out of like about the first six magazines. However, we do post stories 157 00:12:24.240 --> 00:12:28.120 online from the magazine and I'll continue to do that and do that more often 158 00:12:28.200 --> 00:12:31.480 so that people can still get that content because we had a lot of great 159 00:12:31.519 --> 00:12:35.720 contributors like Ryan who wrote some great stories, and I like to get that 160 00:12:35.799 --> 00:12:39.240 information out there because that's the whole point. But the magazine is beautiful. 161 00:12:39.480 --> 00:12:43.360 Eric McFarlane did the artwork for the most part, and he's just a genius 162 00:12:43.399 --> 00:12:46.519 in my eyes. He does most of the artwork for Open Minds in the 163 00:12:46.600 --> 00:12:50.919 UFO Congress. But yes, you can get those magazines at open Minds dot 164 00:12:50.960 --> 00:12:54.440 tv. We have a shop there a link for that and check those out. 165 00:12:56.080 --> 00:13:01.759 Uh huh alajandro h. Now that you're you're just going to be able 166 00:13:01.799 --> 00:13:03.840 to do this live for just a couple of weeks and we have to go 167 00:13:03.879 --> 00:13:07.559 back to pre recording. Um. But you know, I gotta tell you, 168 00:13:07.600 --> 00:13:11.799 I want to thank all the people that have been involved in these h 169 00:13:11.240 --> 00:13:18.320 these YouTube videos. Since I've been in Russia now for this very long time, 170 00:13:18.279 --> 00:13:22.240 I've noticed that more people are watching this show. But it's you know, 171 00:13:22.360 --> 00:13:26.360 mostly in the UK and throughout Europe. More people watching this show live 172 00:13:26.840 --> 00:13:31.200 than ever than it is in my regular time slot. That is so cool. 173 00:13:31.559 --> 00:13:33.279 Yeah, and I may, I may. I don't know. My 174 00:13:33.320 --> 00:13:37.840 regular listeners may not want to hear this, but I may consider changing the 175 00:13:37.960 --> 00:13:41.919 time slot a little, just to try to get more people in. Well, 176 00:13:41.919 --> 00:13:46.000 I'm sure you'll get some feedback. Having given that comment, I'm sure 177 00:13:46.039 --> 00:13:50.240 I will. All right, anything else going on, no, I think 178 00:13:50.240 --> 00:13:54.399 that's about it. Otherwise, let's see in the in the regular headlines, 179 00:13:54.440 --> 00:14:00.440 we're posting headlines on a regular basis about UFOs, and there aren't quite fu 180 00:14:01.080 --> 00:14:05.480 UFO stories in the mainstream news, so I think people should check that out. 181 00:14:05.480 --> 00:14:09.519 There's a lot going on out there, so it's pretty cool, all 182 00:14:09.600 --> 00:14:13.360 right. And while Ryan's here, I just want to say Ryan were Ryan 183 00:14:13.480 --> 00:14:18.559 once runs a great show, really good podcast since really become quite a success. 184 00:14:18.679 --> 00:14:24.799 It's called Somewhere in the Skies and dot com and Somewhere in the Skies 185 00:14:24.799 --> 00:14:28.360 dot com you can see it. And also is a book, a very 186 00:14:28.360 --> 00:14:31.559 interesting book. He's been on the show recently. So Alejandro, thank you 187 00:14:31.600 --> 00:14:35.759 so much. Thank you my friend. All right, and we will be 188 00:14:35.960 --> 00:14:39.879 chatting to you next week. Somehow, you just went off the screen here, 189 00:14:39.919 --> 00:14:43.440 so let me figure out what's going on, and I'll talk to you 190 00:14:43.440 --> 00:14:46.639 next week, Alejandro, all right, tell you later. All right, 191 00:14:46.440 --> 00:14:50.679 okay, everyone, So now we're going to be bringing in our guests, 192 00:14:50.159 --> 00:14:56.039 Peter Robbins. And Peter is an amazing artist, first of all, but 193 00:14:56.279 --> 00:15:01.279 he's been involved in the UFO topic for a very long time. He's been 194 00:15:01.320 --> 00:15:05.639 doing lectures all over the world. Actually, and tonight we're going to be 195 00:15:05.679 --> 00:15:13.399 talking about the of Rona's incident, close encounter. It's really incredible, plus 196 00:15:13.440 --> 00:15:16.679 a bunch of other things. So, Peter, I want to welcome you 197 00:15:16.759 --> 00:15:20.399 to the show. How are you good, Martin And it's great to be 198 00:15:20.440 --> 00:15:24.240 back. Yes, let me just try to adjust what's going on here there. 199 00:15:24.279 --> 00:15:28.240 You are all right? Yes, I know it's been a while since 200 00:15:28.240 --> 00:15:33.320 you've been on the show, hasn't it. I'm trying to I don't know, 201 00:15:33.480 --> 00:15:35.639 nineteen forty three or four. I think I think it was just before 202 00:15:35.679 --> 00:15:41.360 the big UFO flap that started forty seven, if I got that right. 203 00:15:43.120 --> 00:15:46.600 But no, So for the person who has not heard you before, Peter, 204 00:15:46.639 --> 00:15:52.440 can you just give a quick background about yourself. Yeah, I'm an 205 00:15:52.480 --> 00:16:02.320 investigative writer who specializes in the subject of UFOs, have been obsessed to interested 206 00:16:02.440 --> 00:16:08.840 in the subject for about forty years, beginning with a memory returned some years 207 00:16:08.840 --> 00:16:15.039 ago of a childhood siding I had with one of my sisters, and make 208 00:16:15.080 --> 00:16:21.799 it my business to do the best I can to research, investigate, and 209 00:16:21.840 --> 00:16:27.120 write about the subject more often than not, though not the hottest, sexiest, 210 00:16:27.200 --> 00:16:33.480 most exotic cases, but ones with real roots in post war history. 211 00:16:33.559 --> 00:16:41.279 I guess I see my role in this having developed over the decades more as 212 00:16:41.320 --> 00:16:48.320 somebody who focuses on trying to get reasonable thinking and skeptical thinking, well educated, 213 00:16:48.360 --> 00:16:56.519 open minded people or whatever level of education through that first door to take 214 00:16:56.519 --> 00:17:03.519 a serious look at the subject to a degree to get clear of the ridicule 215 00:17:03.599 --> 00:17:10.799 factor, which is a particular interest of mine. How the subject of seeing 216 00:17:10.799 --> 00:17:17.039 something in the sky that you couldn't identify has become internationally wild up, wired 217 00:17:17.119 --> 00:17:22.480 up with delusion, hoaxing, mysticism and everything that it has nothing to do 218 00:17:22.559 --> 00:17:30.759 with. And this past month I've been lucky enough in my work to travel 219 00:17:30.839 --> 00:17:36.839 to Athens, Greece, along with my good friend and close colleague Richard Dolan, 220 00:17:37.319 --> 00:17:42.119 to speak at a Wilhelm Reich conference that focus in on the UFO subject, 221 00:17:42.680 --> 00:17:48.519 and then just a few weeks ago in Roswell, New Mexico to speak 222 00:17:48.519 --> 00:17:53.559 at one of the three conferences going on there for the seventieth anniversary. And 223 00:17:55.000 --> 00:17:57.359 here I am back home again, just outside of Ithaca, New York, 224 00:17:57.920 --> 00:18:02.880 in a beautiful part of rural New York State. Now, Peter, when 225 00:18:02.880 --> 00:18:04.960 you and I first met, I want to say it was back in twenty 226 00:18:06.240 --> 00:18:12.440 eleven. You were up in Maine at the experience to speak. It was 227 00:18:12.440 --> 00:18:15.119 a little town in Maine, like Gorham, Maine. I want to say 228 00:18:15.119 --> 00:18:21.759 it was so we first met, and I remember you telling me the story 229 00:18:21.799 --> 00:18:26.720 about you and your sisters sighting the silvery disks or something like that. Can 230 00:18:26.799 --> 00:18:30.759 you can you go over that sighting? Because I remember it was there was 231 00:18:30.799 --> 00:18:36.599 more than one, right, there was a number of objects. Yeah. 232 00:18:36.640 --> 00:18:41.799 We were basically just kids gooping around on the front lawn on a late spring 233 00:18:41.000 --> 00:18:48.039 or early summer, late morning, not a cloud in the sky. I 234 00:18:48.079 --> 00:18:51.000 grew up in New York City, lived most of my life there, but 235 00:18:51.079 --> 00:18:56.599 really came of age in a very pretty little village called Rockville Center, about 236 00:18:56.640 --> 00:19:00.160 thirty miles east of Manhattan. And we were playing on the front lawn and 237 00:19:00.680 --> 00:19:06.359 I caught something out of my right peripheral vision and either said, look, 238 00:19:07.160 --> 00:19:11.599 or my sister's name, Helen, and she looked up and coming in at 239 00:19:11.599 --> 00:19:18.599 a very high rate of speed, and then stopping stock still were five silvery 240 00:19:18.640 --> 00:19:25.519 white disc shaped objects, all tipped at the same angle, so they appeared 241 00:19:25.559 --> 00:19:29.400 like ellipses like a dinner plate would if you held it at an angle. 242 00:19:30.039 --> 00:19:36.640 There was no ambiguity to the Martin. They were disc shaped, no appendages 243 00:19:36.720 --> 00:19:44.720 whatsoever, and in a very precise V type formation, also close enough that 244 00:19:44.759 --> 00:19:49.359 we could both make out regular off color detail around the edge of each that 245 00:19:49.400 --> 00:19:53.880 when we compared notes on it many years later, because I made it the 246 00:19:55.039 --> 00:19:57.319 repressed memory of my childhood. If I have another one, I don't remember 247 00:19:57.319 --> 00:20:03.599 it. And they looked like windows on a commercial airliner at an appreciable distance, 248 00:20:04.279 --> 00:20:11.160 and we looked and looked and looked. This was a very different time. 249 00:20:11.000 --> 00:20:18.160 I had a ridiculously innocent childhood. At that age and adolescence I was 250 00:20:18.680 --> 00:20:25.839 a boy scout. Major passions included collecting rocks and bugs and stamps and fossils. 251 00:20:26.839 --> 00:20:32.279 The only resonance that the subject of UFOs, or as they were called 252 00:20:33.119 --> 00:20:38.799 more often back then in the sixties, flying saucers had for me was on 253 00:20:38.920 --> 00:20:44.519 Saturday sometimes going to our local movie theater with some of my buddies and having 254 00:20:44.759 --> 00:20:48.079 fun or you know, getting fake scared at some of the great b movies, 255 00:20:48.319 --> 00:20:53.799 always almost all in black and white. But I think, in so 256 00:20:53.880 --> 00:21:00.359 many words, the adult notion was simply something that I had assimilated. Probably 257 00:21:00.359 --> 00:21:03.079 like a lot of young people at the time, I just never gave them 258 00:21:03.079 --> 00:21:06.839 a thought. They had nothing to do with my interests in my life, 259 00:21:06.880 --> 00:21:11.079 and yet there they were. And it was a shattering experience for me in 260 00:21:11.160 --> 00:21:18.440 that I tried as well as I could to rationalize what I was seeing. 261 00:21:18.960 --> 00:21:23.079 And in the many years that I've done investigatory work, and for many of 262 00:21:23.119 --> 00:21:30.559 those years working as Bud Hopkins assistant, Bud being arguably the father of scientific 263 00:21:30.039 --> 00:21:37.839 abduction related studies, perhaps the most complex and challenging area of UFO studies, 264 00:21:37.519 --> 00:21:42.799 I had the privilege of working with him on literally hundreds of investigations with quite 265 00:21:42.799 --> 00:21:48.920 a few hundred individuals who alleged to have had these kinds of experiences. And 266 00:21:51.680 --> 00:21:55.640 I spoke to many people that went through similar reactions when they had an initial 267 00:21:55.839 --> 00:22:00.559 or their initial UFO sighting or experience. I call it the checklist response, 268 00:22:00.599 --> 00:22:06.480 where you look up and you see a thing or things that are completely out 269 00:22:06.519 --> 00:22:11.960 of your understanding, and your rational mind goes planes, helicopters, blimps, 270 00:22:12.039 --> 00:22:18.960 balloons, reflections from the ground, flotsam and jetsam birds, weird shaped clouds, 271 00:22:19.000 --> 00:22:23.200 and then you hit the wall. And that's what happened to me so 272 00:22:23.279 --> 00:22:29.079 much so, and I think that a big part of my repressing the memory 273 00:22:29.880 --> 00:22:34.400 was I was at that time being run by wanting to be a cooler kid 274 00:22:34.599 --> 00:22:41.880 instead of a very short, bespectacled, geeky nerd kid. I has starting 275 00:22:41.880 --> 00:22:47.359 to think a lot about this thing called sex, and I knew enough about 276 00:22:47.400 --> 00:22:49.640 girls to know if I were to tell any girl I knew about this, 277 00:22:51.400 --> 00:22:55.400 every girl in the world would soon learn about it. And this thing called 278 00:22:55.440 --> 00:22:59.079 sex would probably never be open to me. And I'm only half kidding. 279 00:22:59.119 --> 00:23:03.400 I mean, these were the things that were driving me to repress this memory, 280 00:23:03.559 --> 00:23:06.519 and in a matter of weeks I had And it was more than fourteen 281 00:23:06.599 --> 00:23:11.880 years before that memory came roaring back into my mind and to put it, 282 00:23:11.920 --> 00:23:18.519 mildly changed my life overnight. Wow. Yeah, that is something else that 283 00:23:18.559 --> 00:23:22.119 I have heard of people repressing them. As a matter of fact, a 284 00:23:22.160 --> 00:23:27.720 friend of mine in the antiques business. Basically stumbled on my website and he 285 00:23:27.759 --> 00:23:32.279 had repressed his memory of a youth. He was telling me about it, 286 00:23:32.319 --> 00:23:37.880 and it was he was walking with some buddies in an object came over him 287 00:23:37.559 --> 00:23:41.720 and they all looked up at it and they felt like the thing was either 288 00:23:41.799 --> 00:23:45.359 controlling them or they felt they felt like the thing was angry. He didn't 289 00:23:45.359 --> 00:23:49.720 know how I was to explain it, like there were feelings coming down, 290 00:23:49.839 --> 00:23:53.519 and so him and his bodies all just stood there and they decided they weren't 291 00:23:53.519 --> 00:23:57.559 going to look up again, and then they finally did. But he repressed 292 00:23:57.599 --> 00:24:03.880 that for years, and it just came out like I don't know, something 293 00:24:03.920 --> 00:24:07.680 he watched on TV or something, and bang there it was. So I 294 00:24:07.079 --> 00:24:12.400 do I think you know when people talk about abductions. You mentioned it earlier 295 00:24:12.440 --> 00:24:18.039 that you know people are repressing, and I think more on that than probably 296 00:24:18.160 --> 00:24:26.079 encounters. Well, yes, and no. Part of the mythology is people 297 00:24:26.119 --> 00:24:30.319 who have had these experiences, And make no mistake to anybody in your audience, 298 00:24:30.799 --> 00:24:34.119 these things happen, and they happen to more people than any of us 299 00:24:34.160 --> 00:24:40.519 would be comfortable with. If we had hard statistics on him. Many of 300 00:24:40.559 --> 00:24:45.799 the people who approached Bud Hopkins in those many years that I worked with them, 301 00:24:45.839 --> 00:24:52.799 and obviously otherwise had their memories intact or had partial memories. A percentage 302 00:24:53.279 --> 00:24:59.119 had a free floating anxiety that was triggered by any number of what we would 303 00:24:59.160 --> 00:25:03.319 call presenting signs, any one, two, or five on their own, 304 00:25:03.680 --> 00:25:08.359 not necessarily indicative. But if it's like fifteen different things that you know, 305 00:25:10.039 --> 00:25:14.920 came together as a profile over the years of working with these folks, then 306 00:25:15.079 --> 00:25:19.599 the chances were serious that perhaps they had had an experience like this. M 307 00:25:21.559 --> 00:25:25.640 Now one of the things I set off the batter I've been telling everyone because 308 00:25:25.680 --> 00:25:29.279 since I'm in Russia and I'm only gonna be here one more week, Um, 309 00:25:29.440 --> 00:25:33.079 this is the fifth week going to be here. It's been six weeks 310 00:25:33.079 --> 00:25:40.599 A long time to be here. That veronez veronez is that how you pronounce 311 00:25:40.720 --> 00:25:45.960 that? And I should know better. I believe it's vernes vernes, and 312 00:25:47.000 --> 00:25:49.920 so you know it's I could probably believe it, or I've been learning Cyrillica 313 00:25:49.960 --> 00:25:53.160 could probably pronounce it better if if it was in there. And I take 314 00:25:53.200 --> 00:25:57.720 that back, it's also i've heard it pronounced varanos. Well, I don't 315 00:25:57.720 --> 00:26:02.440 know, yes, you will have to find out for us how Russians pronounce 316 00:26:02.519 --> 00:26:03.920 it. Yeah, I'm going to look while we're here, end up, 317 00:26:04.200 --> 00:26:07.759 So let's talk about that. I want to tell you though, I've talked 318 00:26:07.759 --> 00:26:11.799 to about ten or fifteen people here and no one remembers it. I was 319 00:26:11.880 --> 00:26:18.000 thinking for sure. Now I'm to the south of Moscow by about eight hundred 320 00:26:18.079 --> 00:26:21.759 or a thousand miles, and I know this was two hundred miles away or 321 00:26:21.759 --> 00:26:26.839 so from Moscow. So but this thing hit worldwide news. So so let's 322 00:26:26.920 --> 00:26:30.599 why don't you do this to me? I heard about this sighting when I 323 00:26:30.640 --> 00:26:33.839 first started really looking seriously into this topic, and it's always fascinating me. 324 00:26:33.880 --> 00:26:37.440 I was really excited when you said you were looking into this and revisiting it. 325 00:26:37.839 --> 00:26:41.119 So for the person that's never heard about this incident, why don't you 326 00:26:41.160 --> 00:26:47.480 go through the whole thing. Yeah. First, I think it's it's fascinating 327 00:26:47.680 --> 00:26:52.720 that the people that you've been in contact with, obviously some who are involved 328 00:26:52.759 --> 00:26:56.400 in this subject, did not have a recall of it. I think there's 329 00:26:56.440 --> 00:27:02.960 actually a really good reason for that. It happened in the autumn of nineteen 330 00:27:03.039 --> 00:27:11.400 eighty nine, and the coverage the research and investigation bridged from that time into 331 00:27:11.519 --> 00:27:17.440 nineteen ninety one. That is, if you superimpose it on what was going 332 00:27:17.480 --> 00:27:21.880 on in world history at that time, it is literally a perfect match for 333 00:27:22.160 --> 00:27:26.519 the complete disintegration of the Soviet Union. In fact, I kept a separate 334 00:27:26.559 --> 00:27:32.839 notebook. I was just fascinated with this long moment in history, growing up 335 00:27:32.839 --> 00:27:38.640 as a Cold War kid, and how literally this whole communist experiment was dying 336 00:27:38.680 --> 00:27:44.720 before our eyes. I think part of the American mythology is because Ronald Reagan 337 00:27:44.759 --> 00:27:48.079 made it happen. I think if you look closer, you will see that 338 00:27:48.480 --> 00:27:53.440 essentially, the Premier and then the first President of the Soviet of Russia, 339 00:27:53.920 --> 00:27:59.759 Mikhail Gorbachev, one of the most fascinating individuals of the twentieth century. I 340 00:27:59.799 --> 00:28:04.039 think he basically walked away from the game. He ran the numbers. They 341 00:28:04.079 --> 00:28:10.640 couldn't afford to continue doing what they were doing, and so the Soviet Union 342 00:28:10.759 --> 00:28:15.519 fell. And even for people who might have had an interest, your average 343 00:28:15.519 --> 00:28:21.000 Soviet citizen slash going into Russian citizen at that time, this was not the 344 00:28:21.000 --> 00:28:23.079 most important thing going on in your life, even though it was a major 345 00:28:23.200 --> 00:28:32.480 event. The story broke here in America on October ninth. My treatment of 346 00:28:32.519 --> 00:28:37.839 the story actually becomes a very personal one because of how deeply I became involved 347 00:28:37.839 --> 00:28:44.279 with one of the leading Soviet and then Russian researchers and developed a very close 348 00:28:44.680 --> 00:28:48.160 friendship with a great deal of correspondence back and forth. That if things had 349 00:28:48.200 --> 00:28:52.240 been set back a year and a half or two years, I don't think 350 00:28:52.440 --> 00:28:56.119 most of our communications would have gotten back and forth to each other. We 351 00:28:56.119 --> 00:29:02.359 were writing letters and nothing else, and sending packages to each other with books 352 00:29:02.400 --> 00:29:07.880 and you know, gifts and this kind of thing. It is in the 353 00:29:07.920 --> 00:29:14.920 world of anomalies that that uphology represents. This is one of the most anomalous 354 00:29:15.319 --> 00:29:22.880 UFO events on record. It literally is so different than just about any other 355 00:29:23.839 --> 00:29:33.960 really credible one that it is in something of a place by itself. The 356 00:29:33.039 --> 00:29:37.880 story first was broken by tasks the Soviet news agency. This did not come 357 00:29:37.920 --> 00:29:42.559 through the equivalent of a tabloid. There weren't any in the Soviet Union at 358 00:29:42.559 --> 00:29:48.680 the time. This was a story that came through the official Soviet news agency, 359 00:29:48.920 --> 00:29:53.839 the specifics of which were backed by the Soviet government. Now, a 360 00:29:56.079 --> 00:30:03.400 conspiracy minded or a a suspicious mind might immediately say hmm. This must have 361 00:30:03.440 --> 00:30:07.400 been some kind of propaganda thing, you know, or some kind of psyops 362 00:30:07.519 --> 00:30:14.000 or tests to see how folks in the Soviet Union and outside would react. 363 00:30:14.680 --> 00:30:21.319 But there were too many credible witnesses, and interestingly, like the very important 364 00:30:21.440 --> 00:30:26.359 Zimbabwe case that the late doctor John mac did so much to investigate, a 365 00:30:26.359 --> 00:30:32.319 good portion of the witnesses where children school had just gotten. Now. The 366 00:30:32.359 --> 00:30:40.319 basics of it are that a craft was seen to come in over a park. 367 00:30:41.799 --> 00:30:48.720 It came and went, and then it landed in a tree. A 368 00:30:48.880 --> 00:30:55.400 creature came down, A robot kind of creature came down. Their descriptions match 369 00:30:55.519 --> 00:31:03.000 literally nothing that we have seen before. They walked through the park. At 370 00:31:03.000 --> 00:31:08.000 a certain point, a boy made a noise and, much like the wonderful 371 00:31:08.119 --> 00:31:15.160 science fiction robot from the Day of the Years, stood still gort A beam 372 00:31:15.160 --> 00:31:21.400 came out of the part of its head and the boy disappeared. The boy 373 00:31:21.480 --> 00:31:26.880 disappeared, and when they went back up into the craft, he reappeared. 374 00:31:30.200 --> 00:31:34.759 This is the most basic part of it. There was a landing on the 375 00:31:34.799 --> 00:31:45.319 ground. It left traces with radioactivity in the soil. I guess one of 376 00:31:45.319 --> 00:31:49.599 the things that caught my attention most was that even though it had happened in 377 00:31:49.640 --> 00:31:56.400 September, it took several weeks for the story to make its way into tasks 378 00:31:56.799 --> 00:32:00.160 and of course be released. That way. Where it became personal for me 379 00:32:00.880 --> 00:32:05.960 was on that afternoon. I was living in an apartment on West fifty seventh 380 00:32:05.960 --> 00:32:09.319 Street in Manhattan, and as was my habit at the time, I often 381 00:32:09.400 --> 00:32:15.440 had the TV news on in the background instead of music as some people might, 382 00:32:15.960 --> 00:32:20.839 a bit of a news junkie, and was working away and the first 383 00:32:20.880 --> 00:32:25.400 report started to come on the news, and I slapped in a video cassette 384 00:32:25.599 --> 00:32:30.400 that dates the event, and then just started to go back and forth between 385 00:32:30.480 --> 00:32:34.440 the news stations. Cable news was still fairly new, but it was one 386 00:32:34.480 --> 00:32:37.759 report after another, report after another, and I thought to myself, the 387 00:32:37.880 --> 00:32:43.920 Task News Agency. They have their American headquarters in Rockefeller Center. I walked 388 00:32:43.920 --> 00:32:49.039 by their office regularly, and I thought, maybe I can get in there 389 00:32:49.079 --> 00:32:53.799 somehow, and I cold called the Task News Agency and put on my best 390 00:32:53.839 --> 00:33:00.440 grown up voice, said I was a investigative writer who lived in Manhattan and 391 00:33:00.720 --> 00:33:05.359 was very interested in the story that was breaking right then and there, and 392 00:33:06.079 --> 00:33:10.759 that as an American of Russian ancestry which I am. I wondered if there 393 00:33:10.799 --> 00:33:15.920 was any chance that there was anybody at Task that I could talk to about 394 00:33:15.000 --> 00:33:20.720 this, And whoever I was on the phone with, I could literally hear 395 00:33:20.799 --> 00:33:24.039 people in the background with a lot of excitement. I mean, it was 396 00:33:24.160 --> 00:33:29.279 happening right then and there, and he invited me over and it's not a 397 00:33:29.319 --> 00:33:31.640 long walk, and less than an hour later I was in the offices of 398 00:33:31.720 --> 00:33:42.079 Tasks. I brought them some official, declassified, fully available documents to kind 399 00:33:42.079 --> 00:33:46.119 of impress upon them that I was serious in the subject. And as telexes 400 00:33:46.119 --> 00:33:52.319 were coming off their telex machines and being ripped off and looked at, I 401 00:33:52.359 --> 00:33:54.559 asked if I might have copies of them. And when I left there about 402 00:33:54.559 --> 00:34:01.680 an hour later, with great goodwill these people that work there and mine back 403 00:34:01.720 --> 00:34:06.880 to them, I walked out with all of the breaking news as it was 404 00:34:06.920 --> 00:34:13.360 coming out of their printers. Some months later, through a friend of mine 405 00:34:13.400 --> 00:34:17.320 who happens to be a psychotherapist and very involved in the work of doctor Wilhelm 406 00:34:17.360 --> 00:34:22.400 Reich. In fact, she was at the time the editor of the twice 407 00:34:22.440 --> 00:34:29.039 a year major American Reich journal. She had received a request from a Soviet 408 00:34:30.039 --> 00:34:37.199 professor asking for a copy of their journal and sending along a copy of the 409 00:34:37.239 --> 00:34:43.360 first edition of a book that he and colleagues had rushed into print, and 410 00:34:43.880 --> 00:34:46.360 she said, I think you're the person to contact him. I did. 411 00:34:47.039 --> 00:34:54.239 His name is Yuri Lozosev, and we began at first a very businesslike correspondence 412 00:34:54.639 --> 00:35:00.039 that over the next two years became a very personal one, with him translating 413 00:35:00.079 --> 00:35:04.639 a lot of what was in the book for me because it's only come out 414 00:35:04.639 --> 00:35:07.480 in Russian sent me a later edition of the book as well, unfortunately, 415 00:35:07.519 --> 00:35:10.840 which I've never been able to read. It is only never come out in 416 00:35:10.880 --> 00:35:15.840 English. And that was how I got involved in the case. But the 417 00:35:17.199 --> 00:35:22.960 secondary story, which is very important or should be to Americans involved in the 418 00:35:22.000 --> 00:35:32.360 subject, is how incredibly cavalier major American news coverage was of this event, 419 00:35:34.559 --> 00:35:37.159 and they obsessed about it, led by the New York Times, which had 420 00:35:37.199 --> 00:35:45.679 more coverage on the voters incident in nineteen eighty nine and nineteen ninety than it 421 00:35:45.800 --> 00:35:52.039 had ever given over to any single UFO incident since nineteen fifty two, and 422 00:35:52.239 --> 00:35:57.880 the overflights over Washington, DC, and so I immediately began to collect all 423 00:35:57.880 --> 00:36:01.880 the coverage I could from every major and regional newspaper that I could, and 424 00:36:02.079 --> 00:36:13.239 once again that pattern of condescension, sarcasm, innuendo, every kind of pseudo 425 00:36:13.320 --> 00:36:21.920 pseudo science imaginable, and how the rationales arct as the Soviet Union went into 426 00:36:22.679 --> 00:36:28.960 its deadly nosedive. One of the most dismissive and fascinating theories that the American 427 00:36:29.079 --> 00:36:35.000 press put forward was, you know, these poor Russian people and the Russian 428 00:36:35.000 --> 00:36:38.119 republics. Of course, the Soviet Republics were had been living for more than 429 00:36:38.199 --> 00:36:45.000 seventy years under the heel of repressive communism, but at heart they were mystical, 430 00:36:45.599 --> 00:36:52.199 you know, Greek Orthodox Catholics who longed to recontact with all of their 431 00:36:52.519 --> 00:36:57.880 mystical heritage, and that, of course we should expect in this moment where 432 00:36:58.159 --> 00:37:00.760 freedom of the press was starting to open up, that we would see wild 433 00:37:00.800 --> 00:37:07.800 exaggerations and the like, which was I thought very insulting to the witnesses that 434 00:37:07.840 --> 00:37:15.239 had the courage to come forward. No matter how outlandish the specifics of the 435 00:37:15.320 --> 00:37:22.840 case seemed to be to the press in America, they were very well documented, 436 00:37:22.239 --> 00:37:29.079 and I think it's obviously felt strongly enough that it was a case worth 437 00:37:29.119 --> 00:37:35.719 reinvestigating that I did just that. And in fact, the paper that I 438 00:37:35.760 --> 00:37:45.239 gave in June last month at the Contact with Space conference in Athens, Greece 439 00:37:45.760 --> 00:37:50.679 was on Varnos, and you are pronouncing that right. I just looked at 440 00:37:50.679 --> 00:37:55.079 the I looked at the cyrillic. So Peter, this, uh, first 441 00:37:55.119 --> 00:38:00.440 of all, one of the accounts that I either read or I watched something 442 00:38:00.480 --> 00:38:04.679 maybe on this said that it was not the beam that came out of his 443 00:38:05.119 --> 00:38:10.159 head, but something a stick or something the figure held in his hand and 444 00:38:10.239 --> 00:38:15.119 waved at the boy that disappeared. So maybe there's some miss You know, 445 00:38:15.199 --> 00:38:24.000 there's misrepresentation there out if. I don't even think misrepresentation as much as when 446 00:38:24.039 --> 00:38:30.880 you have an incidence, be it paranormal or normal. Let's compare it to 447 00:38:30.639 --> 00:38:35.079 you're minding your own business in an urban area and you hear a terrible sound 448 00:38:35.599 --> 00:38:42.400 and you actually see the except for the first second, a automobile crash, 449 00:38:42.679 --> 00:38:46.159 two cars coming together, people being hurt. You know, a terrible sound. 450 00:38:50.000 --> 00:38:55.840 The physiology of human shock, auditory exclusion, tunnel vision, Epinephrine and 451 00:38:57.440 --> 00:39:06.679 adrenaline dumps into the body cause variances in human memory. And again I use 452 00:39:06.840 --> 00:39:10.800 car crash, because that's the classic example of when you see police reports of 453 00:39:10.840 --> 00:39:17.400 an accident, it's almost inevitable that quote unquote witnesses are going to report having 454 00:39:17.440 --> 00:39:22.119 seen different nuances of the same thing. The car was green, No, 455 00:39:22.239 --> 00:39:25.679 it was blue green. You know it came out of in this case the 456 00:39:25.679 --> 00:39:31.320 forehead or a stick that being was holding. Some of these questions would probably 457 00:39:31.400 --> 00:39:37.960 never have answered. And what I should probably do, Martin, is after 458 00:39:37.000 --> 00:39:43.320 the show, send you a copy of a paper that I've written on this 459 00:39:43.800 --> 00:39:49.840 that you can post on your website and that your listeners can review for themselves. 460 00:39:50.280 --> 00:39:53.280 Yes, certainly so the listener who's listening to the podcasts. This will 461 00:39:53.320 --> 00:39:55.960 be in the show notes if you want to check that out. So, 462 00:39:57.000 --> 00:40:00.039 Peter, one of the first questions that comes to mind is the boy that 463 00:40:00.199 --> 00:40:06.360 disappeared and reappeared, What did he have to say about that particular experience? 464 00:40:07.000 --> 00:40:13.920 Well, absolutely nothing that was recorded. Many of these children, you know, 465 00:40:13.960 --> 00:40:19.480 they made their initial reports and then they're still living in the Soviet Union 466 00:40:20.840 --> 00:40:27.800 parents did not allow them to comment. Further, To draw attention to yourself 467 00:40:28.199 --> 00:40:34.880 on something so controversial in a totalitarian state is probably not a good idea to 468 00:40:34.880 --> 00:40:39.079 start with. So there are accounts that we have initial aspects of the accounts, 469 00:40:39.480 --> 00:40:45.079 and then when Uri and his research team chased down many of the individuals, 470 00:40:45.719 --> 00:40:51.559 they had quote unquote nothing to add, and maybe they even were concerned 471 00:40:51.559 --> 00:40:55.840 about what they had said initially. But again, there were enough credible accounts 472 00:40:57.320 --> 00:41:05.920 to suggest to me that not only were these people not interested in attention anything, 473 00:41:05.960 --> 00:41:10.079 but nobody was interested in writing a book or becoming a celebrity about this 474 00:41:10.760 --> 00:41:17.440 anything. But in this kind of situation, um that there was no motivation 475 00:41:17.840 --> 00:41:23.800 to lie to investigators. Again, this thing of wanting to feel special, 476 00:41:24.159 --> 00:41:30.840 that's one of my favorite phil class rationales for people who come forward with a 477 00:41:30.000 --> 00:41:38.360 UFO story. Please there there are ways to feel special that will draw less 478 00:41:38.440 --> 00:41:45.519 higher or less joking at your expense. To put it mildly, By the 479 00:41:45.559 --> 00:41:50.960 way, earlier you said when I was mentioning that no one had heard about 480 00:41:51.000 --> 00:41:54.360 this, I have not really spoken to anyone in the UFO field out here. 481 00:41:54.440 --> 00:41:59.559 So perhaps people in the field, oh, I would know that I 482 00:41:59.599 --> 00:42:07.280 would have imagine because it is it's not Roswell. But in the same way 483 00:42:07.280 --> 00:42:14.760 that the Randelshom incident in the UK from nineteen eighty the press in Britain sometimes 484 00:42:14.760 --> 00:42:19.679 referred to it as Britain's Roswell. Has nothing to do with any similarities in 485 00:42:19.679 --> 00:42:23.800 the case, just that it's their most famous case. So I'm sure I 486 00:42:23.800 --> 00:42:31.639 would imagine in the UFO research community in Greater Russia and the Old Republics that 487 00:42:31.760 --> 00:42:37.440 it would certainly be a case that is known and studied, and that a 488 00:42:37.559 --> 00:42:43.599 number of books have been written on, not just UFOs and Bodanos the book 489 00:42:43.599 --> 00:42:50.920 that I have copies of now has anyone like followed these children, and as 490 00:42:50.960 --> 00:42:55.360 far as being able to get in touch with them these days or anytime shortly 491 00:42:55.400 --> 00:43:00.079 after that, not to the best of my knowledge, And when I was 492 00:43:00.199 --> 00:43:05.599 last in touch with Yuri, and that's nineteen ninety three. Now, again, 493 00:43:05.639 --> 00:43:09.280 this happened in nineteen eighty nine. We began to correspond either late eighty 494 00:43:09.320 --> 00:43:16.639 nine or early ninety. No, again, we have to remember that there 495 00:43:16.679 --> 00:43:22.239 were historic earth shaking events going on behind this at the time, and a 496 00:43:22.800 --> 00:43:29.639 paranormal incident compared to the entire collapse of an empire, because that's what we're 497 00:43:29.639 --> 00:43:35.400 talking about here, it's it's not the same. And again, this is 498 00:43:35.599 --> 00:43:42.360 very unlike the follow up work that has been done with many of the child 499 00:43:42.400 --> 00:43:47.880 witnesses in the Zimbabwe case. That for me is also that is in a 500 00:43:47.960 --> 00:43:58.159 class by itself. In the last years since mac Is, since he died, 501 00:43:58.199 --> 00:44:01.280 since he was killed by a drunken drive UH in England in two thousand 502 00:44:01.280 --> 00:44:07.239 and four, loss uthology in the States still has some getting over to do. 503 00:44:07.880 --> 00:44:14.480 UM researchers have been able to interview a good number of these people who 504 00:44:14.519 --> 00:44:19.000 are now young adults or adults in no uncertain terms, and every single one 505 00:44:19.039 --> 00:44:25.679 of them UH stands by their original accounts and in no uncertain terms. Now 506 00:44:27.000 --> 00:44:31.320 it's UH. I wonder how things would be different today if that happened. 507 00:44:31.599 --> 00:44:35.639 First of all, you have you know, you have the iPhone. Even 508 00:44:35.719 --> 00:44:40.719 here you have you have Internet, you have it's it's more free. UM. 509 00:44:42.199 --> 00:44:45.519 I have been talking to people here about what had changed when it used 510 00:44:45.519 --> 00:44:52.960 to be communist communism UM and UM. They know. One thing that everybody 511 00:44:52.000 --> 00:44:57.760 says is it was very very controlled. Everything was very controlled, of course, 512 00:44:57.960 --> 00:45:02.360 and and punishment. You could get punished for about anything. I think 513 00:45:02.400 --> 00:45:07.880 the answer to your question is everything would have been different about this event, 514 00:45:08.400 --> 00:45:16.440 the reportage around it, the overt curiosity rather than covert curiosity, and as 515 00:45:16.480 --> 00:45:22.360 you mentioned, I would guess that if it happened now, almost everybody in 516 00:45:22.360 --> 00:45:27.679 that park would have their smartphones out and be filming the hell out of this. 517 00:45:28.119 --> 00:45:31.519 There wouldn't be any question. The American press wouldn't have a leg to 518 00:45:31.639 --> 00:45:37.000 stand on to dish on it on the level that they did, and it 519 00:45:37.079 --> 00:45:43.480 was scathing and insulting and demeaning. This would have been a huge difference. 520 00:45:43.760 --> 00:45:49.239 Those images could have gone right up on the Internet, and although it is 521 00:45:49.519 --> 00:45:54.679 a very double edged sword to rely on internet sources for your UFO related information, 522 00:45:55.320 --> 00:46:02.039 this would have been one of those cases where credible UM videographer, film 523 00:46:02.079 --> 00:46:08.400 analysts, people like doctor Bruce mccabee who was for so many years the go 524 00:46:08.519 --> 00:46:17.199 to guy relative to UFO analysis film analysis, and now uh Marc D'Angelo d' 525 00:46:17.280 --> 00:46:29.639 antonio D'Antonio, who is now I believe MUFON's official film analyst, a brilliant 526 00:46:29.639 --> 00:46:36.400 scientist and for me, a very singular personality in the work. Validation for 527 00:46:36.440 --> 00:46:44.079 the images would have come in very quickly. And because it you know, 528 00:46:44.239 --> 00:46:47.920 it's I will be generous and say I think that it is a somewhat corrupt 529 00:46:47.960 --> 00:46:52.639 government, but it is a freewheeling and open government in its own way, 530 00:46:53.639 --> 00:47:00.519 that you know, repressing a UFO story under putin. I I don't think 531 00:47:00.519 --> 00:47:04.880 it would really happen or not happen in a way that would you make it 532 00:47:05.039 --> 00:47:09.719 verbodin or something that people were locked up for warned against. It'd be out 533 00:47:09.760 --> 00:47:14.360 there, it'd be out there, it'd be discussed by folks like the ones 534 00:47:14.400 --> 00:47:17.280 that you're mixing with on a regular basis, that would not be confined to 535 00:47:17.320 --> 00:47:22.280 the so called UFO research community in Russia anything. But if it happened now 536 00:47:22.880 --> 00:47:29.480 now were their sightings, quite a few sightings around there right after this or 537 00:47:29.559 --> 00:47:32.880 right before it as well. There were follow ups and there were reports of 538 00:47:32.920 --> 00:47:40.000 earlier ones. In January of nineteen ninety, the legendary doctor Jacques Valet, 539 00:47:40.400 --> 00:47:45.480 certainly one of the most respected people in the history of UFO research who does 540 00:47:45.559 --> 00:47:51.079 not take, to put it mildly, a strictly extraterrestrial explanation. He has 541 00:47:51.119 --> 00:47:57.599 always been one of our freest and most open minded thinkers. He met with 542 00:47:58.079 --> 00:48:01.800 he was in the Soviet Union at the time, and he met with members 543 00:48:02.039 --> 00:48:13.320 of the research community in Varnos, and he had said in fact that the 544 00:48:13.440 --> 00:48:20.559 sightings that were happening on both of Varnos in the Soviet Union were part of 545 00:48:20.559 --> 00:48:25.280 a worldwide wave of UFO visitations, and he characterized it as the largest one 546 00:48:25.719 --> 00:48:30.480 that he was aware of that had happened in the past decade. Wow. 547 00:48:30.000 --> 00:48:36.559 Wow, Yeah, Now you were saying revisited. How are you revisiting? 548 00:48:36.599 --> 00:48:39.360 In what way? Are you doing research? I know I haven't read your 549 00:48:39.360 --> 00:48:45.320 paper, but are you doing research when it comes to looking at old reports 550 00:48:45.320 --> 00:48:52.519 of this worldwide? Or how you doing that? Yeah? Essentially, what 551 00:48:52.679 --> 00:49:00.880 I've done has been to pull together all of the mainstream coverage that was reported 552 00:49:00.960 --> 00:49:04.559 in the States. So it's somewhat limited in that sense. I do have 553 00:49:04.719 --> 00:49:10.599 copies of a lot of the Soviet coverage from an assortment of publications that came 554 00:49:10.639 --> 00:49:15.280 out at that time and immediately after, but of course they're all in Russian. 555 00:49:16.119 --> 00:49:22.360 I put it all in chronological order. I've kind of superimposed the actual 556 00:49:22.480 --> 00:49:35.559 witness reports against the extremely dismissive major media coverage in this on this subject. 557 00:49:36.000 --> 00:49:45.360 Also adding into the timeline the fact that Eurylazotsev and his research team in December 558 00:49:43.800 --> 00:49:52.199 eighteen, nineteen eighty nine, they appeared in a nationally broadcast two hour documentary 559 00:49:52.719 --> 00:49:59.039 entitled UFOs and Vodanos, which was completely unknown in this country and completely historic 560 00:49:59.519 --> 00:50:08.239 in the Soviet Union at that time. They introduced the physical evidences that they 561 00:50:08.480 --> 00:50:13.239 had gotten even at that early date. Again, it happened in September, 562 00:50:14.719 --> 00:50:19.800 the story broke in the West in October, and by December in a national 563 00:50:19.880 --> 00:50:25.480 two hour broadcast, they were presenting evidence for phosphorus affecting the soil one hundred 564 00:50:25.519 --> 00:50:30.880 times in excess of that found in control samples in the area of background radiation 565 00:50:31.000 --> 00:50:40.480 counts. The fact that pressure tests on the landing impressions told a tale of 566 00:50:40.760 --> 00:50:47.440 a five and three quarter ton weight that sat there, that the background radiation, 567 00:50:49.199 --> 00:50:58.000 that microorganisms were missing in the soil samples that they pulled, that were, 568 00:50:58.239 --> 00:51:01.320 you know, control samples taken from twenty five feet away or whatever. 569 00:51:01.679 --> 00:51:06.119 We're alive with micro organisms as you're going to find almost anywhere in the world. 570 00:51:07.679 --> 00:51:13.519 I let the reader, people who have listened to this lecture draw ultimately 571 00:51:13.559 --> 00:51:20.960 their own conclusions. But once again we see how damning your traditional, dismissive 572 00:51:21.039 --> 00:51:25.599 Western coverage of the subject can be to people who otherwise might want to learn 573 00:51:25.679 --> 00:51:34.559 more about it. It did not help that the beings, the life forms, 574 00:51:34.599 --> 00:51:42.239 if you will, or the mechanical accompanying creatures of the life forms were 575 00:51:42.320 --> 00:51:47.679 so unusual in the many years that I worked with. But in particular, 576 00:51:49.280 --> 00:51:52.880 I don't have an actual statistic for it, but I'm gonna off the top 577 00:51:52.880 --> 00:52:00.000 of my head, I'll say that maybe three quarters of the beings that legitimate 578 00:52:00.039 --> 00:52:07.960 abductees legitimate in our minds, certainly after research and investigation family histories, cat 579 00:52:07.079 --> 00:52:17.480 scans, corroborating information from mental health professionals and medical professionals, that let's say, 580 00:52:17.519 --> 00:52:23.880 seventy five percent of the life forms that they were reporting were slight variations 581 00:52:23.880 --> 00:52:30.800 one way or the other on the archetypical gray and the other quarter of reports 582 00:52:30.239 --> 00:52:40.679 varied wildly, everything from insectoids to reptoids to almost anything imaginable. With the 583 00:52:40.760 --> 00:52:46.159 understanding that there's no question in my mind, and it's I think a lot 584 00:52:46.199 --> 00:52:55.800 of my colleagues would agree, these intelligences can, if not control, affect 585 00:52:55.880 --> 00:53:02.480 human perception and put something in our mind that is not there, perhaps because 586 00:53:02.559 --> 00:53:07.719 we cannot tolerate what we're actually seeing, and it is their way of giving 587 00:53:07.800 --> 00:53:14.119 us sort of an out. A perfect example is reports on and off over 588 00:53:14.159 --> 00:53:19.119 the decades have come in from somebody with the history of the abduction phenomena saying, 589 00:53:19.559 --> 00:53:22.320 I saw a white owl on my window sill and it was three or 590 00:53:22.360 --> 00:53:29.360 four feet tall. Well, we can safely dismiss that as a realistic possibility. 591 00:53:29.760 --> 00:53:32.599 There are no white owls that are three or four feet tall. However, 592 00:53:34.199 --> 00:53:37.719 whether or not that was a function they're seeing, it was a function 593 00:53:38.280 --> 00:53:42.519 of something that was put in their mind what we call a screen memory, 594 00:53:43.039 --> 00:53:50.280 or a function of their own physiological shock and denial and the human minds ability 595 00:53:50.480 --> 00:53:54.480 to create an image that is more acceptable until you can wrap your head around 596 00:53:54.679 --> 00:53:59.800 what you really saw, perhaps at a later day, right, right, 597 00:54:00.039 --> 00:54:06.400 And do you think that what they were seeing the nine foot being and then 598 00:54:06.400 --> 00:54:09.719 the smaller one, do you think they they were considering them all robots or 599 00:54:09.800 --> 00:54:17.920 just the smaller one. The smaller one was the one that almost every witness 600 00:54:19.400 --> 00:54:27.239 described as robot or robot like the other ones, including the one that had 601 00:54:27.239 --> 00:54:32.159 a humanoid form torso arms, legs, but just the tiniest little, you 602 00:54:32.239 --> 00:54:40.840 know, blip up here to suggest ahead that my best sense from the descriptions 603 00:54:40.880 --> 00:54:47.960 I've read is that they were, you know, actual creatures of some sort 604 00:54:49.079 --> 00:54:53.960 or another android or bio android or biological or what have you. Again, 605 00:54:54.000 --> 00:54:58.840 when we get into this realm, the only thing we really have is informed 606 00:54:58.840 --> 00:55:04.760 speculation. Anybody that says that they know is somebody I think to smiling back 607 00:55:04.800 --> 00:55:09.079 away from slowly. Now, the question in the chat room did the robots 608 00:55:09.199 --> 00:55:15.400 or figures I guess give off a fear response in the humans? I mean, 609 00:55:15.400 --> 00:55:21.239 we're people really scared. If they were, they weren't shrieking and running 610 00:55:21.239 --> 00:55:29.280 away. People were standing their ground, they were observing. In nineteen eighty 611 00:55:29.360 --> 00:55:34.119 nine in the Soviet Union, very few people would have been out and about 612 00:55:34.159 --> 00:55:37.719 with a camera. Overall. That was a luxury item, and hence there 613 00:55:37.760 --> 00:55:44.440 are no photos. That may seem almost impossible to somebody growing up in the 614 00:55:44.480 --> 00:55:47.559 age of you know, smartphone selfies, but that's the way it was. 615 00:55:47.960 --> 00:55:52.559 But no, I'm not really okay. And also another question, was there 616 00:55:52.639 --> 00:56:00.480 another landing close by there or any other landings known that we're relaying to that, 617 00:56:00.880 --> 00:56:07.199 Yes, there was another one in the same area, within the same 618 00:56:07.239 --> 00:56:12.119 time frame. And um, I'm working off the top of my head here, 619 00:56:12.519 --> 00:56:15.800 but um, let me see if I can find a reference to it. 620 00:56:15.199 --> 00:56:25.119 Bring up some notes here, and while you're doing that, I'll make 621 00:56:25.119 --> 00:56:31.760 you multitask. So this this being, if I remember right, it had 622 00:56:31.800 --> 00:56:37.440 like what appeared to be three eyes, yes, two eyes, and then 623 00:56:37.559 --> 00:56:40.280 something above it in the center. And is that where the beam of the 624 00:56:40.320 --> 00:56:45.920 beam came out of as one of the eyes. Possibly certainly yeah, by 625 00:56:45.480 --> 00:56:52.880 one of the accounts that I researched, and again and just trying to see 626 00:56:53.039 --> 00:57:02.559 if I can come right on that account. Let me give you a couple 627 00:57:02.559 --> 00:57:07.440 of facts about it, or the closest thing we have. First, that 628 00:57:07.599 --> 00:57:12.480 the UFO first appeared about six thirty PM. Red light descended toward the ground. 629 00:57:13.519 --> 00:57:17.840 The light took on the appearance of a spherical or egg like shape by 630 00:57:17.920 --> 00:57:23.760 some accounts. It circled the immediate area, agitating the grass for about forty 631 00:57:23.760 --> 00:57:29.800 feet below it. It then flew off and returned a few minutes later and 632 00:57:29.880 --> 00:57:34.800 hovered over the park. A hatch was seen to open or a door call 633 00:57:34.800 --> 00:57:37.360 it what you will, in the lower half of the object, and the 634 00:57:37.480 --> 00:57:44.719 UFO with the open hatch came to settle down into a good sized poplar tree, 635 00:57:45.039 --> 00:57:51.320 causing the tree to bend under its weight. Now child and adult witnesses 636 00:57:52.599 --> 00:57:57.639 all pretty much agreed that the diameter, and again we're dealing with young people 637 00:57:58.119 --> 00:58:04.480 who might be harder pressed to estimate a size at an appreciable distance, but 638 00:58:04.519 --> 00:58:13.679 they came in at between thirty and forty five feet diameter. The tallest one, 639 00:58:14.039 --> 00:58:17.719 yeah, one account, one account I have here, was in excess 640 00:58:17.719 --> 00:58:22.480 of ten feet by most accounts, not nine feet, and that was the 641 00:58:22.519 --> 00:58:28.079 one that wore silvery suit with a very small head, not much more than 642 00:58:28.159 --> 00:58:35.559 a bump peaking above its whatever it was wearing. It climbed out of the 643 00:58:35.800 --> 00:58:39.880 spacecraft I mean imagine, climbed down the tree, as did the small robot 644 00:58:39.960 --> 00:58:46.239 like entity or entities, depending on the account. A luminous rectangle appeared under 645 00:58:46.280 --> 00:58:51.400 them, and they when they stepped on the ground, it disappeared. When 646 00:58:51.440 --> 00:58:55.320 the taller one made a sound. The being touched some knobs on the robot's 647 00:58:55.440 --> 00:59:01.679 chest as the two began to move about the park. As they progressed through 648 00:59:01.679 --> 00:59:07.519 the park, a nearby boy shouted something, possibly in fear. This would 649 00:59:07.519 --> 00:59:10.280 have been the only account of somebody screaming that we have in the case, 650 00:59:10.440 --> 00:59:16.840 or having a fear sound reaction causing the being to stare at the child as 651 00:59:16.880 --> 00:59:22.320 a beam of light came from its center eye. This seemingly paralyzed boy remained 652 00:59:22.360 --> 00:59:28.039 motionless until the tall one looked away. The tall one then climbed up into 653 00:59:28.039 --> 00:59:31.119 the tree and into the craft to retrieve a pistol light device, which was 654 00:59:31.159 --> 00:59:37.400 then aimed at the boy. Then I'm sorry, then aimed at another individual, 655 00:59:37.440 --> 00:59:40.400 a young man walking in the vicinity, and witnesses maintained that he then 656 00:59:40.480 --> 00:59:46.119 disappeared as the device was trained on him, and reappeared only after the beings 657 00:59:46.199 --> 00:59:53.559 and craft departed. I mean, this is arguably wild stuff, but this 658 00:59:53.679 --> 01:00:01.880 is what we have, and to dismiss it just because even for research specialists 659 01:00:01.880 --> 01:00:08.719 like myself and a lot of my colleagues, is maybe a way of not 660 01:00:08.760 --> 01:00:15.079 taking responsibility for you know, one more anomaly in the thing. I mean, 661 01:00:15.320 --> 01:00:20.239 I think about and if you Bud Hopkins used to have a wonderful thing 662 01:00:20.280 --> 01:00:23.320 on his wall. I think it was from National Geographic and it showed pictures 663 01:00:23.360 --> 01:00:32.239 of a young Eskimo boy, a very old Chinese man, a a animist 664 01:00:34.039 --> 01:00:37.440 kind of witch doctor from um, you know, deep in the South American 665 01:00:37.519 --> 01:00:43.639 forest, a Scandinavian woman, and on and on and on, a very 666 01:00:43.679 --> 01:00:47.480 black African person down the pantheon and saying, you know, are these how 667 01:00:47.519 --> 01:00:52.159 can these all be from the same species. Well, that's it for the 668 01:00:52.159 --> 01:00:55.280 free part of the show. Thank you so much for listening. We'll be 669 01:00:55.320 --> 01:01:01.480 back next week with Kevin Goodman. We're going to be talking about Warmester UFOs. 670 01:01:01.559 --> 01:01:06.119 Remember you can support the show and listen to the full shows for only 671 01:01:06.199 --> 01:01:09.719 two dollars or more per month, plus all the archives and that's a lot 672 01:01:09.760 --> 01:01:28.800 of listening. Thanks so much, and remember to keep your eyes to the sky.