And it hits me, Oh my gosh, this is that triangle. You
know, there's explanation for everything that occurred in the Randallsham Cars incident that doesn't
involve aliens at all. It was completely silent. It comes right over our
heads. Soulsa really standing into clearly. He turned over to my father and
held his hand, and he looked in his eyes and said, we're not
alone. Hello everyone, it's Martin Willis your host. Welcome to podcast UFO.
We have a great show for you this evening. A friend of mine,
Peter Robbins, is going to be on. He's always entertaining, and
we're gonna be talking a little bit about this amazing Russian close encounter that happened
back in nineteen eighty nine. Very very interesting and just kind of out of
this world, you know, nine foot creatures and all that. Really really
interesting, out of this world. I guess you'd call that a pun.
Anyway. Alejandro Rojasu be coming up in just a minute with UFO updates Live,
and I want to thank you for supporting the show. You can support
the show for a couple of dollars or more a month at Informations on Podcast
UFO. Dot com. I notice we're getting a lot, a lot of
downloads on our free shows because I can see it now, see how many
there are, and pretty impressive, and you could help us out for just
a couple of dollars to keep that in mind. If you can't, you
can listen to the full show always on YouTube live or on podcast UFO Live.
It's going to be this week and next week from one pm to three
pm Eastern Standard Time. Then it's going back to the regular slot of eight
pm to ten pm Eastern Standard time. You can also listen to the full
show, excuse me, full show on the Dark Matter Digital Network and that's
every Thursday evening and that's at let's see ten to midnight. And so that's
that's it for me for now, Alejandro, what's going on? Not a
whole life? You know, UFOs are going on. I shouldn't say that.
There's a lot of good stories out there. But the first thing we
have to do, I think, is go through our weekly list of apologies
because we seem to be offending a lot of people lately. We offended the
entire country of Canada last week. Apparently, no, actually it was just
one person. Hopefully we didn't offend any everybody, but I do want to
say apologize for my ignorance about Canada Day. It apparently is on the first,
but that UFO sting we talked about said they were celebrating it on the
second, which is their right to do. And of course we were teasing
the Canadians about stealing our thunder and you know, choosing July first a few
days before July fource so when July Force comes around, they could be like,
we already partied. Man, you guys are behind the times. But
yes, someone got a little upset about that. So I guess we were
just having fun and that of course I love Canadians. We talk a lot
about good stuff about Canadians, don't we. We certain actually yes, so
Stanton of course is out there. Grant Cameron is a Canadians. We love
Canadians. I had a Canadian on my show recently, who from Vancouver?
Who did? Who? He's got this documentary called Nocturnal Lights made in Canada
for the most part, which people have to check out. In fact,
I think I think your guest might from today might even be in it,
if I'm not mistaken. But anyway, uh yeah, Charles Lamreau was his
name, and go Canada. Just wanted to say that, and don't worry
if you are wondering, Hey, how come he's not apologizing for something he
said about me in the region that I live. Don't worry. I'm sure.
Just give it some time and we yeah, yeah, guaranteed. Yeah,
well, you know, that's that's fine. You know we have,
like you said, there's a lot of great people. And you and I
were on M Bonaparte. So what's his first trying to remember his first name,
Jordan Joe Jason, Jordan, Jordan Jordan Bonapartes. So we're on his
show up in Canada together, you and I and I'm actually heading up there
to Shag Harbor in October on the anniversary. I'm really excited to do that.
That should be a lot of fun. Cool. Yeah, so what's
going on? It should be fun, Yeah, it will be. So
what's going on m in the UFO news currently? Yeah, So we have
some cool sightings that Roger marsh I was one of them when I found I
think these were both of these are both from Roger, but of course he's
the director of communications to remove on and he posts some cool sightings on our
site on a regular basis, and we have a couple of cool ones here.
First of all from just the other day, and I love this one.
Uh this is an aviation mechanic who is unable to identify a you're a
shaped object. This was in Ohio, in Mahoning County. And the reason
I giggled a little bit is because this guy was cruising his scooter, which
is cool. Of course Arizona, we've got warm weather. We've got a
lot of people, these these older retirees on their scooters cruising around. And
at least this is the first time I can remember a UFO sighting from a
scooter, which is kind of cool. Those guys are scooting around quite a
bit. So you know, if you are scooting around right now while you're
listening to this podcast, keep your eyes to the sky. You may see
something strange like this gentleman. So anyway, this was on at about ten
pm on June tenth. Although I don't know, scooting at night might be
dangerous, but so be careful out there. But this guy says he went
when he saw this thing, he went to grab his cell phone charger out
of his scooter. Or no, he went to go grab his cellphone charger
out of his scooter and when he saw this object that he took a picture
of and got a little bit of video. But he says that he worked
on f sixteens. He has knowledge of planes and helicopters and falling space objects,
but he was not able to identify what this object is. We do
have the pictures, he says to him. It looks fear shaped in the
pictures. It looks more like an elongated object. But yeah, it's it's
not readily apparent what it is. And of course this person has experience with
looking at aircraft and he couldn't identify it. So it's an interesting one.
It's being investigated by Joseph Pavlanski if or Ohio Mufon right now, so we'll
see what they figure out there. But that's that's kind of a cool when
you saw that, right, Oh yeah, yeah, I think it's a
really interesting one. And then another interesting one where there were at least a
couple of witnesses. Uh was gentleman in California, Landers, California. That's
another town name that for some reason makes me laugh. I guess it's because
I think of Flanders. The Flanders. You know that. The Simpsons,
of course, funny people. Oh yeah, I'm gonna get We're gonna get
emails from Landers now saying we're But this is an interesting one because this,
this gentleman says he believes, you know, this aircraft or this this object
was being chased by a jet and this was seen during a UFO conference in
the Joshua Tree area. So this happened on May twenty first. It was
also about ten pm. The video they did capture some video and it was
with night vision goggles and in the view you do see two sets of lights.
You see one set behind another. The first set has, you know,
the lights are consistent they're on. The second set are blinking, so
you can tell it's an aircraft. The witnesses, of which there were quite
a few, said that they could hear the jet noise, you know,
so they knew that there was a jet. I guess there were about fifty
people out there looking for UFOs when they saw this. Somebody had a pair
of night vision goggles and they said they felt that they could tell what the
shape of the object is and that it was recortain or a diamond shaped.
A lot of people though, you know, when you hear that diamond shape,
it often triggers this kind of red flag, which is just that often
the aperture and cameras is diamond shaped in a bright light kind of feels it's
so strong that it takes the shape of the aperture. So that's a possibility.
People who know more about this equipment no better than I could probably make
some more educated comments on that. That's possibly why she saw a diamond shape.
But yeah, so this is an interesting sighting. I know the person
investigating this is Earl Gray Anderson, so he's a cool dude. He is
in our Open Mind UFO forum news forum quite a bit and commenting. So
really good guy Earl Gray out there in California. And I love his name
because it harkens back to, of course Jean Luc Picard. Another name I
like to say it is that of course it sounds French. Maybe he's French
Canadian Jean Luc Picard. But I feel like I should drink Earl Gray tea.
I know, I was feeling like I should get up and get some
tea right now, but yeah, he should in honor of Earl Gray.
Maybe he's even listening so a really neat guy out of California. He's investigating.
He does. He is a little bit wary, he says, though,
because we have seen from this conference other pictures and videos of alleged objects
and beings that do not pan out. So especially at this conference, there's
kind of a frenzy, you know, where people are are talking about UFOs
and aliens. So people want to see UFO and aliens, and it seems
like they have misidentified some pictures and images in the past. So he's a
little worried that maybe this kind of uh you know, need or frenzy to
see something weird has influenced their opinions. But yeah, he's looking into it
and we'll see what he discovers. Hey, Alan Hunter, we have a
lot of people up in the in the chat room UM and one just posts
a quick question for you. They want to know if there was any possibility
of ordering back issues of the UM you know, the UFO magazine. Oh
is that a real chatter? Oh yes, that's awesome. That that's like
set spike, you know, perfect, They're setting me up to promo the
magazines. Yes, and I love that question because our magazines. I love
our magazine so much in fact behind me, and maybe that's what triggered that
thought. You can see some of our posters of our magazine covers. In
fact, this one here is written by Ryan Sprague, and he references your
guest a lot in the article he wrote in this this uh particular issue.
But anyway, um, Ryan is just giving a shout out as we speak
on the chart room. Really he's a cool dude. Love that guy Sprague
too. Oh, I keep saying it wrong. Damn. He corrected me
last time he was on my show. Sprague, It's Sprague. Oh,
I'm sorry, but I guess I shouldn't worry. People have been pronounced my
name a lot and I don't mind. But anyway, Yes, you can
go to open mind stat tv. Click on the shop link and you'll be
able to um order some videos. Sorry, pause there because I just got
fired from Peter Robin. You're fire. He's very upset about me mispronouncing it
is good buddies, there's a little buddy's name there. But yeah, you
can't go to open minds dot tv and you can't order back orders. We're
out of like about the first six magazines. However, we do post stories
online from the magazine and I'll continue to do that and do that more often
so that people can still get that content because we had a lot of great
contributors like Ryan who wrote some great stories, and I like to get that
information out there because that's the whole point. But the magazine is beautiful.
Eric McFarlane did the artwork for the most part, and he's just a genius
in my eyes. He does most of the artwork for Open Minds in the
UFO Congress. But yes, you can get those magazines at open Minds dot
tv. We have a shop there a link for that and check those out.
Uh huh alajandro h. Now that you're you're just going to be able
to do this live for just a couple of weeks and we have to go
back to pre recording. Um. But you know, I gotta tell you,
I want to thank all the people that have been involved in these h
these YouTube videos. Since I've been in Russia now for this very long time,
I've noticed that more people are watching this show. But it's you know,
mostly in the UK and throughout Europe. More people watching this show live
than ever than it is in my regular time slot. That is so cool.
Yeah, and I may, I may. I don't know. My
regular listeners may not want to hear this, but I may consider changing the
time slot a little, just to try to get more people in. Well,
I'm sure you'll get some feedback. Having given that comment, I'm sure
I will. All right, anything else going on, no, I think
that's about it. Otherwise, let's see in the in the regular headlines,
we're posting headlines on a regular basis about UFOs, and there aren't quite fu
UFO stories in the mainstream news, so I think people should check that out.
There's a lot going on out there, so it's pretty cool, all
right. And while Ryan's here, I just want to say Ryan were Ryan
once runs a great show, really good podcast since really become quite a success.
It's called Somewhere in the Skies and dot com and Somewhere in the Skies
dot com you can see it. And also is a book, a very
interesting book. He's been on the show recently. So Alejandro, thank you
so much. Thank you my friend. All right, and we will be
chatting to you next week. Somehow, you just went off the screen here,
so let me figure out what's going on, and I'll talk to you
next week, Alejandro, all right, tell you later. All right,
okay, everyone, So now we're going to be bringing in our guests,
Peter Robbins. And Peter is an amazing artist, first of all, but
he's been involved in the UFO topic for a very long time. He's been
doing lectures all over the world. Actually, and tonight we're going to be
talking about the of Rona's incident, close encounter. It's really incredible, plus
a bunch of other things. So, Peter, I want to welcome you
to the show. How are you good, Martin And it's great to be
back. Yes, let me just try to adjust what's going on here there.
You are all right? Yes, I know it's been a while since
you've been on the show, hasn't it. I'm trying to I don't know,
nineteen forty three or four. I think I think it was just before
the big UFO flap that started forty seven, if I got that right.
But no, So for the person who has not heard you before, Peter,
can you just give a quick background about yourself. Yeah, I'm an
investigative writer who specializes in the subject of UFOs, have been obsessed to interested
in the subject for about forty years, beginning with a memory returned some years
ago of a childhood siding I had with one of my sisters, and make
it my business to do the best I can to research, investigate, and
write about the subject more often than not, though not the hottest, sexiest,
most exotic cases, but ones with real roots in post war history.
I guess I see my role in this having developed over the decades more as
somebody who focuses on trying to get reasonable thinking and skeptical thinking, well educated,
open minded people or whatever level of education through that first door to take
a serious look at the subject to a degree to get clear of the ridicule
factor, which is a particular interest of mine. How the subject of seeing
something in the sky that you couldn't identify has become internationally wild up, wired
up with delusion, hoaxing, mysticism and everything that it has nothing to do
with. And this past month I've been lucky enough in my work to travel
to Athens, Greece, along with my good friend and close colleague Richard Dolan,
to speak at a Wilhelm Reich conference that focus in on the UFO subject,
and then just a few weeks ago in Roswell, New Mexico to speak
at one of the three conferences going on there for the seventieth anniversary. And
here I am back home again, just outside of Ithaca, New York,
in a beautiful part of rural New York State. Now, Peter, when
you and I first met, I want to say it was back in twenty
eleven. You were up in Maine at the experience to speak. It was
a little town in Maine, like Gorham, Maine. I want to say
it was so we first met, and I remember you telling me the story
about you and your sisters sighting the silvery disks or something like that. Can
you can you go over that sighting? Because I remember it was there was
more than one, right, there was a number of objects. Yeah.
We were basically just kids gooping around on the front lawn on a late spring
or early summer, late morning, not a cloud in the sky. I
grew up in New York City, lived most of my life there, but
really came of age in a very pretty little village called Rockville Center, about
thirty miles east of Manhattan. And we were playing on the front lawn and
I caught something out of my right peripheral vision and either said, look,
or my sister's name, Helen, and she looked up and coming in at
a very high rate of speed, and then stopping stock still were five silvery
white disc shaped objects, all tipped at the same angle, so they appeared
like ellipses like a dinner plate would if you held it at an angle.
There was no ambiguity to the Martin. They were disc shaped, no appendages
whatsoever, and in a very precise V type formation, also close enough that
we could both make out regular off color detail around the edge of each that
when we compared notes on it many years later, because I made it the
repressed memory of my childhood. If I have another one, I don't remember
it. And they looked like windows on a commercial airliner at an appreciable distance,
and we looked and looked and looked. This was a very different time.
I had a ridiculously innocent childhood. At that age and adolescence I was
a boy scout. Major passions included collecting rocks and bugs and stamps and fossils.
The only resonance that the subject of UFOs, or as they were called
more often back then in the sixties, flying saucers had for me was on
Saturday sometimes going to our local movie theater with some of my buddies and having
fun or you know, getting fake scared at some of the great b movies,
always almost all in black and white. But I think, in so
many words, the adult notion was simply something that I had assimilated. Probably
like a lot of young people at the time, I just never gave them
a thought. They had nothing to do with my interests in my life,
and yet there they were. And it was a shattering experience for me in
that I tried as well as I could to rationalize what I was seeing.
And in the many years that I've done investigatory work, and for many of
those years working as Bud Hopkins assistant, Bud being arguably the father of scientific
abduction related studies, perhaps the most complex and challenging area of UFO studies,
I had the privilege of working with him on literally hundreds of investigations with quite
a few hundred individuals who alleged to have had these kinds of experiences. And
I spoke to many people that went through similar reactions when they had an initial
or their initial UFO sighting or experience. I call it the checklist response,
where you look up and you see a thing or things that are completely out
of your understanding, and your rational mind goes planes, helicopters, blimps,
balloons, reflections from the ground, flotsam and jetsam birds, weird shaped clouds,
and then you hit the wall. And that's what happened to me so
much so, and I think that a big part of my repressing the memory
was I was at that time being run by wanting to be a cooler kid
instead of a very short, bespectacled, geeky nerd kid. I has starting
to think a lot about this thing called sex, and I knew enough about
girls to know if I were to tell any girl I knew about this,
every girl in the world would soon learn about it. And this thing called
sex would probably never be open to me. And I'm only half kidding.
I mean, these were the things that were driving me to repress this memory,
and in a matter of weeks I had And it was more than fourteen
years before that memory came roaring back into my mind and to put it,
mildly changed my life overnight. Wow. Yeah, that is something else that
I have heard of people repressing them. As a matter of fact, a
friend of mine in the antiques business. Basically stumbled on my website and he
had repressed his memory of a youth. He was telling me about it,
and it was he was walking with some buddies in an object came over him
and they all looked up at it and they felt like the thing was either
controlling them or they felt they felt like the thing was angry. He didn't
know how I was to explain it, like there were feelings coming down,
and so him and his bodies all just stood there and they decided they weren't
going to look up again, and then they finally did. But he repressed
that for years, and it just came out like I don't know, something
he watched on TV or something, and bang there it was. So I
do I think you know when people talk about abductions. You mentioned it earlier
that you know people are repressing, and I think more on that than probably
encounters. Well, yes, and no. Part of the mythology is people
who have had these experiences, And make no mistake to anybody in your audience,
these things happen, and they happen to more people than any of us
would be comfortable with. If we had hard statistics on him. Many of
the people who approached Bud Hopkins in those many years that I worked with them,
and obviously otherwise had their memories intact or had partial memories. A percentage
had a free floating anxiety that was triggered by any number of what we would
call presenting signs, any one, two, or five on their own,
not necessarily indicative. But if it's like fifteen different things that you know,
came together as a profile over the years of working with these folks, then
the chances were serious that perhaps they had had an experience like this. M
Now one of the things I set off the batter I've been telling everyone because
since I'm in Russia and I'm only gonna be here one more week, Um,
this is the fifth week going to be here. It's been six weeks
A long time to be here. That veronez veronez is that how you pronounce
that? And I should know better. I believe it's vernes vernes, and
so you know it's I could probably believe it, or I've been learning Cyrillica
could probably pronounce it better if if it was in there. And I take
that back, it's also i've heard it pronounced varanos. Well, I don't
know, yes, you will have to find out for us how Russians pronounce
it. Yeah, I'm going to look while we're here, end up,
So let's talk about that. I want to tell you though, I've talked
to about ten or fifteen people here and no one remembers it. I was
thinking for sure. Now I'm to the south of Moscow by about eight hundred
or a thousand miles, and I know this was two hundred miles away or
so from Moscow. So but this thing hit worldwide news. So so let's
why don't you do this to me? I heard about this sighting when I
first started really looking seriously into this topic, and it's always fascinating me.
I was really excited when you said you were looking into this and revisiting it.
So for the person that's never heard about this incident, why don't you
go through the whole thing. Yeah. First, I think it's it's fascinating
that the people that you've been in contact with, obviously some who are involved
in this subject, did not have a recall of it. I think there's
actually a really good reason for that. It happened in the autumn of nineteen
eighty nine, and the coverage the research and investigation bridged from that time into
nineteen ninety one. That is, if you superimpose it on what was going
on in world history at that time, it is literally a perfect match for
the complete disintegration of the Soviet Union. In fact, I kept a separate
notebook. I was just fascinated with this long moment in history, growing up
as a Cold War kid, and how literally this whole communist experiment was dying
before our eyes. I think part of the American mythology is because Ronald Reagan
made it happen. I think if you look closer, you will see that
essentially, the Premier and then the first President of the Soviet of Russia,
Mikhail Gorbachev, one of the most fascinating individuals of the twentieth century. I
think he basically walked away from the game. He ran the numbers. They
couldn't afford to continue doing what they were doing, and so the Soviet Union
fell. And even for people who might have had an interest, your average
Soviet citizen slash going into Russian citizen at that time, this was not the
most important thing going on in your life, even though it was a major
event. The story broke here in America on October ninth. My treatment of
the story actually becomes a very personal one because of how deeply I became involved
with one of the leading Soviet and then Russian researchers and developed a very close
friendship with a great deal of correspondence back and forth. That if things had
been set back a year and a half or two years, I don't think
most of our communications would have gotten back and forth to each other. We
were writing letters and nothing else, and sending packages to each other with books
and you know, gifts and this kind of thing. It is in the
world of anomalies that that uphology represents. This is one of the most anomalous
UFO events on record. It literally is so different than just about any other
really credible one that it is in something of a place by itself. The
story first was broken by tasks the Soviet news agency. This did not come
through the equivalent of a tabloid. There weren't any in the Soviet Union at
the time. This was a story that came through the official Soviet news agency,
the specifics of which were backed by the Soviet government. Now, a
conspiracy minded or a a suspicious mind might immediately say hmm. This must have
been some kind of propaganda thing, you know, or some kind of psyops
or tests to see how folks in the Soviet Union and outside would react.
But there were too many credible witnesses, and interestingly, like the very important
Zimbabwe case that the late doctor John mac did so much to investigate, a
good portion of the witnesses where children school had just gotten. Now. The
basics of it are that a craft was seen to come in over a park.
It came and went, and then it landed in a tree. A
creature came down, A robot kind of creature came down. Their descriptions match
literally nothing that we have seen before. They walked through the park. At
a certain point, a boy made a noise and, much like the wonderful
science fiction robot from the Day of the Years, stood still gort A beam
came out of the part of its head and the boy disappeared. The boy
disappeared, and when they went back up into the craft, he reappeared.
This is the most basic part of it. There was a landing on the
ground. It left traces with radioactivity in the soil. I guess one of
the things that caught my attention most was that even though it had happened in
September, it took several weeks for the story to make its way into tasks
and of course be released. That way. Where it became personal for me
was on that afternoon. I was living in an apartment on West fifty seventh
Street in Manhattan, and as was my habit at the time, I often
had the TV news on in the background instead of music as some people might,
a bit of a news junkie, and was working away and the first
report started to come on the news, and I slapped in a video cassette
that dates the event, and then just started to go back and forth between
the news stations. Cable news was still fairly new, but it was one
report after another, report after another, and I thought to myself, the
Task News Agency. They have their American headquarters in Rockefeller Center. I walked
by their office regularly, and I thought, maybe I can get in there
somehow, and I cold called the Task News Agency and put on my best
grown up voice, said I was a investigative writer who lived in Manhattan and
was very interested in the story that was breaking right then and there, and
that as an American of Russian ancestry which I am. I wondered if there
was any chance that there was anybody at Task that I could talk to about
this, And whoever I was on the phone with, I could literally hear
people in the background with a lot of excitement. I mean, it was
happening right then and there, and he invited me over and it's not a
long walk, and less than an hour later I was in the offices of
Tasks. I brought them some official, declassified, fully available documents to kind
of impress upon them that I was serious in the subject. And as telexes
were coming off their telex machines and being ripped off and looked at, I
asked if I might have copies of them. And when I left there about
an hour later, with great goodwill these people that work there and mine back
to them, I walked out with all of the breaking news as it was
coming out of their printers. Some months later, through a friend of mine
who happens to be a psychotherapist and very involved in the work of doctor Wilhelm
Reich. In fact, she was at the time the editor of the twice
a year major American Reich journal. She had received a request from a Soviet
professor asking for a copy of their journal and sending along a copy of the
first edition of a book that he and colleagues had rushed into print, and
she said, I think you're the person to contact him. I did.
His name is Yuri Lozosev, and we began at first a very businesslike correspondence
that over the next two years became a very personal one, with him translating
a lot of what was in the book for me because it's only come out
in Russian sent me a later edition of the book as well, unfortunately,
which I've never been able to read. It is only never come out in
English. And that was how I got involved in the case. But the
secondary story, which is very important or should be to Americans involved in the
subject, is how incredibly cavalier major American news coverage was of this event,
and they obsessed about it, led by the New York Times, which had
more coverage on the voters incident in nineteen eighty nine and nineteen ninety than it
had ever given over to any single UFO incident since nineteen fifty two, and
the overflights over Washington, DC, and so I immediately began to collect all
the coverage I could from every major and regional newspaper that I could, and
once again that pattern of condescension, sarcasm, innuendo, every kind of pseudo
pseudo science imaginable, and how the rationales arct as the Soviet Union went into
its deadly nosedive. One of the most dismissive and fascinating theories that the American
press put forward was, you know, these poor Russian people and the Russian
republics. Of course, the Soviet Republics were had been living for more than
seventy years under the heel of repressive communism, but at heart they were mystical,
you know, Greek Orthodox Catholics who longed to recontact with all of their
mystical heritage, and that, of course we should expect in this moment where
freedom of the press was starting to open up, that we would see wild
exaggerations and the like, which was I thought very insulting to the witnesses that
had the courage to come forward. No matter how outlandish the specifics of the
case seemed to be to the press in America, they were very well documented,
and I think it's obviously felt strongly enough that it was a case worth
reinvestigating that I did just that. And in fact, the paper that I
gave in June last month at the Contact with Space conference in Athens, Greece
was on Varnos, and you are pronouncing that right. I just looked at
the I looked at the cyrillic. So Peter, this, uh, first
of all, one of the accounts that I either read or I watched something
maybe on this said that it was not the beam that came out of his
head, but something a stick or something the figure held in his hand and
waved at the boy that disappeared. So maybe there's some miss You know,
there's misrepresentation there out if. I don't even think misrepresentation as much as when
you have an incidence, be it paranormal or normal. Let's compare it to
you're minding your own business in an urban area and you hear a terrible sound
and you actually see the except for the first second, a automobile crash,
two cars coming together, people being hurt. You know, a terrible sound.
The physiology of human shock, auditory exclusion, tunnel vision, Epinephrine and
adrenaline dumps into the body cause variances in human memory. And again I use
car crash, because that's the classic example of when you see police reports of
an accident, it's almost inevitable that quote unquote witnesses are going to report having
seen different nuances of the same thing. The car was green, No,
it was blue green. You know it came out of in this case the
forehead or a stick that being was holding. Some of these questions would probably
never have answered. And what I should probably do, Martin, is after
the show, send you a copy of a paper that I've written on this
that you can post on your website and that your listeners can review for themselves.
Yes, certainly so the listener who's listening to the podcasts. This will
be in the show notes if you want to check that out. So,
Peter, one of the first questions that comes to mind is the boy that
disappeared and reappeared, What did he have to say about that particular experience?
Well, absolutely nothing that was recorded. Many of these children, you know,
they made their initial reports and then they're still living in the Soviet Union
parents did not allow them to comment. Further, To draw attention to yourself
on something so controversial in a totalitarian state is probably not a good idea to
start with. So there are accounts that we have initial aspects of the accounts,
and then when Uri and his research team chased down many of the individuals,
they had quote unquote nothing to add, and maybe they even were concerned
about what they had said initially. But again, there were enough credible accounts
to suggest to me that not only were these people not interested in attention anything,
but nobody was interested in writing a book or becoming a celebrity about this
anything. But in this kind of situation, um that there was no motivation
to lie to investigators. Again, this thing of wanting to feel special,
that's one of my favorite phil class rationales for people who come forward with a
UFO story. Please there there are ways to feel special that will draw less
higher or less joking at your expense. To put it mildly, By the
way, earlier you said when I was mentioning that no one had heard about
this, I have not really spoken to anyone in the UFO field out here.
So perhaps people in the field, oh, I would know that I
would have imagine because it is it's not Roswell. But in the same way
that the Randelshom incident in the UK from nineteen eighty the press in Britain sometimes
referred to it as Britain's Roswell. Has nothing to do with any similarities in
the case, just that it's their most famous case. So I'm sure I
would imagine in the UFO research community in Greater Russia and the Old Republics that
it would certainly be a case that is known and studied, and that a
number of books have been written on, not just UFOs and Bodanos the book
that I have copies of now has anyone like followed these children, and as
far as being able to get in touch with them these days or anytime shortly
after that, not to the best of my knowledge, And when I was
last in touch with Yuri, and that's nineteen ninety three. Now, again,
this happened in nineteen eighty nine. We began to correspond either late eighty
nine or early ninety. No, again, we have to remember that there
were historic earth shaking events going on behind this at the time, and a
paranormal incident compared to the entire collapse of an empire, because that's what we're
talking about here, it's it's not the same. And again, this is
very unlike the follow up work that has been done with many of the child
witnesses in the Zimbabwe case. That for me is also that is in a
class by itself. In the last years since mac Is, since he died,
since he was killed by a drunken drive UH in England in two thousand
and four, loss uthology in the States still has some getting over to do.
UM researchers have been able to interview a good number of these people who
are now young adults or adults in no uncertain terms, and every single one
of them UH stands by their original accounts and in no uncertain terms. Now
it's UH. I wonder how things would be different today if that happened.
First of all, you have you know, you have the iPhone. Even
here you have you have Internet, you have it's it's more free. UM.
I have been talking to people here about what had changed when it used
to be communist communism UM and UM. They know. One thing that everybody
says is it was very very controlled. Everything was very controlled, of course,
and and punishment. You could get punished for about anything. I think
the answer to your question is everything would have been different about this event,
the reportage around it, the overt curiosity rather than covert curiosity, and as
you mentioned, I would guess that if it happened now, almost everybody in
that park would have their smartphones out and be filming the hell out of this.
There wouldn't be any question. The American press wouldn't have a leg to
stand on to dish on it on the level that they did, and it
was scathing and insulting and demeaning. This would have been a huge difference.
Those images could have gone right up on the Internet, and although it is
a very double edged sword to rely on internet sources for your UFO related information,
this would have been one of those cases where credible UM videographer, film
analysts, people like doctor Bruce mccabee who was for so many years the go
to guy relative to UFO analysis film analysis, and now uh Marc D'Angelo d'
antonio D'Antonio, who is now I believe MUFON's official film analyst, a brilliant
scientist and for me, a very singular personality in the work. Validation for
the images would have come in very quickly. And because it you know,
it's I will be generous and say I think that it is a somewhat corrupt
government, but it is a freewheeling and open government in its own way,
that you know, repressing a UFO story under putin. I I don't think
it would really happen or not happen in a way that would you make it
verbodin or something that people were locked up for warned against. It'd be out
there, it'd be out there, it'd be discussed by folks like the ones
that you're mixing with on a regular basis, that would not be confined to
the so called UFO research community in Russia anything. But if it happened now
now were their sightings, quite a few sightings around there right after this or
right before it as well. There were follow ups and there were reports of
earlier ones. In January of nineteen ninety, the legendary doctor Jacques Valet,
certainly one of the most respected people in the history of UFO research who does
not take, to put it mildly, a strictly extraterrestrial explanation. He has
always been one of our freest and most open minded thinkers. He met with
he was in the Soviet Union at the time, and he met with members
of the research community in Varnos, and he had said in fact that the
sightings that were happening on both of Varnos in the Soviet Union were part of
a worldwide wave of UFO visitations, and he characterized it as the largest one
that he was aware of that had happened in the past decade. Wow.
Wow, Yeah, Now you were saying revisited. How are you revisiting?
In what way? Are you doing research? I know I haven't read your
paper, but are you doing research when it comes to looking at old reports
of this worldwide? Or how you doing that? Yeah? Essentially, what
I've done has been to pull together all of the mainstream coverage that was reported
in the States. So it's somewhat limited in that sense. I do have
copies of a lot of the Soviet coverage from an assortment of publications that came
out at that time and immediately after, but of course they're all in Russian.
I put it all in chronological order. I've kind of superimposed the actual
witness reports against the extremely dismissive major media coverage in this on this subject.
Also adding into the timeline the fact that Eurylazotsev and his research team in December
eighteen, nineteen eighty nine, they appeared in a nationally broadcast two hour documentary
entitled UFOs and Vodanos, which was completely unknown in this country and completely historic
in the Soviet Union at that time. They introduced the physical evidences that they
had gotten even at that early date. Again, it happened in September,
the story broke in the West in October, and by December in a national
two hour broadcast, they were presenting evidence for phosphorus affecting the soil one hundred
times in excess of that found in control samples in the area of background radiation
counts. The fact that pressure tests on the landing impressions told a tale of
a five and three quarter ton weight that sat there, that the background radiation,
that microorganisms were missing in the soil samples that they pulled, that were,
you know, control samples taken from twenty five feet away or whatever.
We're alive with micro organisms as you're going to find almost anywhere in the world.
I let the reader, people who have listened to this lecture draw ultimately
their own conclusions. But once again we see how damning your traditional, dismissive
Western coverage of the subject can be to people who otherwise might want to learn
more about it. It did not help that the beings, the life forms,
if you will, or the mechanical accompanying creatures of the life forms were
so unusual in the many years that I worked with. But in particular,
I don't have an actual statistic for it, but I'm gonna off the top
of my head, I'll say that maybe three quarters of the beings that legitimate
abductees legitimate in our minds, certainly after research and investigation family histories, cat
scans, corroborating information from mental health professionals and medical professionals, that let's say,
seventy five percent of the life forms that they were reporting were slight variations
one way or the other on the archetypical gray and the other quarter of reports
varied wildly, everything from insectoids to reptoids to almost anything imaginable. With the
understanding that there's no question in my mind, and it's I think a lot
of my colleagues would agree, these intelligences can, if not control, affect
human perception and put something in our mind that is not there, perhaps because
we cannot tolerate what we're actually seeing, and it is their way of giving
us sort of an out. A perfect example is reports on and off over
the decades have come in from somebody with the history of the abduction phenomena saying,
I saw a white owl on my window sill and it was three or
four feet tall. Well, we can safely dismiss that as a realistic possibility.
There are no white owls that are three or four feet tall. However,
whether or not that was a function they're seeing, it was a function
of something that was put in their mind what we call a screen memory,
or a function of their own physiological shock and denial and the human minds ability
to create an image that is more acceptable until you can wrap your head around
what you really saw, perhaps at a later day, right, right,
And do you think that what they were seeing the nine foot being and then
the smaller one, do you think they they were considering them all robots or
just the smaller one. The smaller one was the one that almost every witness
described as robot or robot like the other ones, including the one that had
a humanoid form torso arms, legs, but just the tiniest little, you
know, blip up here to suggest ahead that my best sense from the descriptions
I've read is that they were, you know, actual creatures of some sort
or another android or bio android or biological or what have you. Again,
when we get into this realm, the only thing we really have is informed
speculation. Anybody that says that they know is somebody I think to smiling back
away from slowly. Now, the question in the chat room did the robots
or figures I guess give off a fear response in the humans? I mean,
we're people really scared. If they were, they weren't shrieking and running
away. People were standing their ground, they were observing. In nineteen eighty
nine in the Soviet Union, very few people would have been out and about
with a camera. Overall. That was a luxury item, and hence there
are no photos. That may seem almost impossible to somebody growing up in the
age of you know, smartphone selfies, but that's the way it was.
But no, I'm not really okay. And also another question, was there
another landing close by there or any other landings known that we're relaying to that,
Yes, there was another one in the same area, within the same
time frame. And um, I'm working off the top of my head here,
but um, let me see if I can find a reference to it.
Bring up some notes here, and while you're doing that, I'll make
you multitask. So this this being, if I remember right, it had
like what appeared to be three eyes, yes, two eyes, and then
something above it in the center. And is that where the beam of the
beam came out of as one of the eyes. Possibly certainly yeah, by
one of the accounts that I researched, and again and just trying to see
if I can come right on that account. Let me give you a couple
of facts about it, or the closest thing we have. First, that
the UFO first appeared about six thirty PM. Red light descended toward the ground.
The light took on the appearance of a spherical or egg like shape by
some accounts. It circled the immediate area, agitating the grass for about forty
feet below it. It then flew off and returned a few minutes later and
hovered over the park. A hatch was seen to open or a door call
it what you will, in the lower half of the object, and the
UFO with the open hatch came to settle down into a good sized poplar tree,
causing the tree to bend under its weight. Now child and adult witnesses
all pretty much agreed that the diameter, and again we're dealing with young people
who might be harder pressed to estimate a size at an appreciable distance, but
they came in at between thirty and forty five feet diameter. The tallest one,
yeah, one account, one account I have here, was in excess
of ten feet by most accounts, not nine feet, and that was the
one that wore silvery suit with a very small head, not much more than
a bump peaking above its whatever it was wearing. It climbed out of the
spacecraft I mean imagine, climbed down the tree, as did the small robot
like entity or entities, depending on the account. A luminous rectangle appeared under
them, and they when they stepped on the ground, it disappeared. When
the taller one made a sound. The being touched some knobs on the robot's
chest as the two began to move about the park. As they progressed through
the park, a nearby boy shouted something, possibly in fear. This would
have been the only account of somebody screaming that we have in the case,
or having a fear sound reaction causing the being to stare at the child as
a beam of light came from its center eye. This seemingly paralyzed boy remained
motionless until the tall one looked away. The tall one then climbed up into
the tree and into the craft to retrieve a pistol light device, which was
then aimed at the boy. Then I'm sorry, then aimed at another individual,
a young man walking in the vicinity, and witnesses maintained that he then
disappeared as the device was trained on him, and reappeared only after the beings
and craft departed. I mean, this is arguably wild stuff, but this
is what we have, and to dismiss it just because even for research specialists
like myself and a lot of my colleagues, is maybe a way of not
taking responsibility for you know, one more anomaly in the thing. I mean,
I think about and if you Bud Hopkins used to have a wonderful thing
on his wall. I think it was from National Geographic and it showed pictures
of a young Eskimo boy, a very old Chinese man, a a animist
kind of witch doctor from um, you know, deep in the South American
forest, a Scandinavian woman, and on and on and on, a very
black African person down the pantheon and saying, you know, are these how
can these all be from the same species. Well, that's it for the
free part of the show. Thank you so much for listening. We'll be
back next week with Kevin Goodman. We're going to be talking about Warmester UFOs.
Remember you can support the show and listen to the full shows for only
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