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Hello, and welcome to the show. I'm Martin Willisher, host and we

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have i think an exciting show tonight, and it's mostly to do with Canada,

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but not all Canada. And you'll
understand that in just one second here

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and a few minutes. I have
a friend of the show and personal friend,

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Jordan Bonaparte from Nova Scotia. He'll
be joining us to talk about UFO

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news and things in Canada and all
that. Then we have renowned UFO investigator.

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Then that's Chris Ritkowski. He's coming
on at twenty five minutes into the

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show. I want to thank everyone
that supports the show, and I also

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want to thank every listener. I
don't do that enough. There are all

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different types of ways to listen.
You can catch us live on YouTube or

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live on KGr A Radio. Plus
there's a lot of other platforms as our

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podcast of course, which you can
get on your media player. And every

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Thursday night we're over at the Dark
Matter Digital Network. I'm not sure exactly

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what time it is on Thursday,
but there is a schedule, so check

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that out over there. At some
point and a few days ago, the

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anchor to the show, the anchor
show that is on the network and that's

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Art Bell's old show, Midnight in
the Desert. They got a new host

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and his name is Tim Wiseberg.
Nice guy, and so you can check

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out the shows. Anyone can actually
watch or listen to the shows. I

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should say over there at the dark
Matter Digital Network. Midnight in the Desert

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it's every night, and that is
on Eastern time. It's midnight to the

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wee hours in the morning or a
Pacific time it's nine pm. So check

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that over at the dark Matter Digital
Network. And for right now, all

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that being said, I would like
to introduce that get I mean that new

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host, Tim. Welcome to the
show, surprise guests. Yeah, thanks

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for having me. Yeah, it's
nice to be able to talk about stuff

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this early. And I have to
wait till midnight. Yes you are you

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know you're not in Canada. I
said this was a Canada show, but

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you know you're close enough. You're
in Massachusetts. And yeah, yeah,

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so you have to you have to
stay up late to do the show.

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That would I don't know if I
could do that, to be honest with

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you, those hours are and what
time do you I guess you have to

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reset your whole life. But you
get to bed at what four in the

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morning or something like that. Yeah, I try to go to bed.

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I leave my day job around you
know a little bit after that, go

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home, take a nap, wake
up, do the show, then go

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and take like another like three or
four hour nap, get up, go

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to work. You know. Oh
my goodness, so far, and it's

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working out so far. But we're
only in a week. Two talk to

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me in a couple of months.
Yeah, I've been a subscriber all the

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way back when our at Bell first
came back. I think it was twenty

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fifteen or something like that. But
our show, I do believe is the

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longest running show because of Keith over
there. He helped me go live for

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the very first time, and I've
been live ever since, and I think

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that was twenty thirteen. We've been
running on that network and we get quite

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a few listeners there on Thursday at
night, even though it's a career run.

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So it's it's it's well done,
and you have Michelle helping you getting

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guests, and I know you have
a good week coming up. But before

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we get into that, I want
to quickly say that I just listened this

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evening before the show on the episode
you did about the coronavirus, and I

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know it has absolutely nothing to do
with UFOs and not really paranormal, but

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there is so much hype about it. And the guest you had diala what

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was her name, Dalia Schweitzer.
Yeah, she was very good, and

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you know, you kind of put
a lot of things to bed. For

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instance, a lot more people die
from the flu than it just does not

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make any news, and there's so
much hype about this. You know,

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people are wearing masks everywhere. I
went into no I'm up in Maine and

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I went into physical therapy today and
at the office they said, have you

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been exposed to anyone with the coronavirus? I mean, it's really it's really

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overblown, And so I was glad
you did an episode about that. Yeah,

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I mean, I guess abundance of
caution is the phrase to use.

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But in actuality, it's the people
who are dying from this. It's not

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healthy average people. It's people that
are at the extremes, very young people,

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very old people. And always when
that happens, you tend to the

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hype and the horror stories that come
out because the media likes a sensationalized thing.

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So we tried to kind of peel
back some of that and get into

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not only the truth of this virus, but just the way that they cover

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viruses in general. Yeah. Yeah, so you are doing shows on all

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different types of subjects like that has
always been covered there, starting with the

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Art Bell's shows. But can you
give our listener here a little bit of

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your background and how you were able
to fill Art Bell's seat. Well,

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I don't know about that, but
we started doing my original radio show,

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which is now in its fourteen years, Spooky South Coast. We started that

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in two thousand and six, and
that was something where, you know,

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we didn't expect to get a big
audience. We thought it'd just be a

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local, regional show. But then
we started podcasting and that made all the

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difference in the world. And then
when the Dark Amount of Digital Network started

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up, Keith reached out and wanted
to carry the show. He said that

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he and Art felt like it was
something that kind of fit the mold of

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what Art was doing, and so
we've been on there ever since then.

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And then when Dave Schrader took over
Midnight in the Desert and he needed to

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have some filling hosts, I was
one of the people lucky enough to get

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that opportunity, and then I kind
of just became, I guess, you

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know, the Jay Leno to his
Johnny Carson, where I was usually the

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guy that they called first, and
more often than not I could do it.

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And then it just made sense with
his schedule now, with Holder Files

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going into a season two and everything, excuse me, everything on his plate,

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it just made sense for me to
kind of step into the big chair.

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Awesome. Well, if you ever
need a fill in, I'd be

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glad to do that. Hey,
we'll keep you on the lift. All

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right. I did promise Dave would
I would use him first though. Oh

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absolutely, Yeah, Dave is awesome. Dave does such a great show.

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But he is such a busy guy. Plus doesn't he have like ten kids

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or something like that, and he
has a lot of children something like that,

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and now as kids are having kids. Oh, I mean, he's

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just got a dog, So good
luck with that. Yeah, no,

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no, he's he does. He
does a wonderful job. But anyway,

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I'm really glad that you were able
to come on and just introduce yourself.

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I wish you all the luck.
I hope it goes really well for you

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over there and just enjoy yourself because
you're going to have some great guests as

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always there. All right, so
it's all about just have some fun late

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at night. That's what it's all
about. That's right. Yeah, Now

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it's time for you to go get
a nap if you can, I will

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do that. Thank you so much
for having me. All right, you

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take care, all right? All
right, our next guests we have Jordan

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and Jordan is there is Dada.
Hey Jordan, how are you? Yeah?

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Yeah, thanks for being on.
Hey, what happened to your microphone

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set up? You're using your iPhone
stuff here? Oh and it's the kids

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are upstairs screaming and if I have
a good enough mike, you're gonna hear

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gosh knows what. So I figured
this is like kind of the security against

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that I got it. You're hiding
in the basement or something like that.

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Yeah, so you are up in
the Halifax Nova, Scotia. Not we

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met over at Shag Harbor. How
many years I don't even want to think

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how many years ago that was?
Now, Yeah, I don't like thinking

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of time passing. That was like
that was two or three years ago,

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although it feels like two months ago
if that. Yeah, but it's a

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yeah, it was a time goes
by fast. I've been to some of

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the other festivals there since then.
They Shag Harbor got their own coins since

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you were last there, that's right. And are they doing that event every

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year now? Yeah? And I
met with Chris Stiles, who's the Upologists

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kind of take on a lot of
the planning. He claims that this year

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is going to be bigger than bigger
and better than ever. So it's still

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a while away. Another I guess
ten months from now or eight months from

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now, so I'm sure you'll hear
about it. Hopefully he'll find a way

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to get you up there again.
Well, I'll tell you I did something

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I will never ever do again.
As I drove from Maine from my house

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all the way up around the arm
of Nova Scotia, you know, stopped

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in worse Stand Freedman Lift h and
then just drove all the way around.

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I think it was two days of
driving or something ridiculous when I could have

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just taken the ferry and just popped
right over. Yeah, exactly. And

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then you lost your credit card along, that's right. That was a lot

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of fun and dog bit me,
my own dog bit me. You're walking

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around the UFO fest of Al asking
for handouts. Yeah, yeah, no,

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I had that. I had the
little basket and yeah the sunglass,

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I cried, but yeah, yeah, So hey, thanks for joining us.

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And I were on for I don't
know, another fifteen minutes or so,

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and I asked you if you could
look up a little bit of UFO

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news, what's going on? So
what did you find? Well? I

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got a few things, some that
lean a bit more towards the controversial and

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some that lead more towards the topic
of disclosure. So I think maybe we'll

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start with that. And there's been
an announcement that the Ministry of Defense and

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the UK has announced that they're going
to release basically what they're what they're referring

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to as their secret UFO files.
And it sounds like anyone who's done a

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lot of kind of research in the
Canadian UFO history. Basically, the Canadian

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government has a section of their website
where they store all of the UFO files

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or any reports related to UFOs,
basically wide open for public consumption. I

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can't think of the web address,
but if you search like Canada Government UFO,

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you'll find the division of the Canadian
government's website that shares that it sounds

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like the Ministry of Defense in the
UK is going to do something similar,

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which is basically creating a portal on
the government website to you know, release

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I guess whatever they're able to,
but by the sounds of what they've said

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so far, it's it's going to
be an abundance of documents spanning nineteen fifty

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to two thousand and nine. So
I think, you know, the people

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who are watching the skies are going
to have a lot of watching the computer

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screen and flipping through PDFs for a
while. But it's I just find like,

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what I like about something like this
is, for one, as it

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gets the topic and the news because
it gives something really interesting to talk about.

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But also it just kind of adds
to the acceptance of the phenomenon to

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hear the government, even in a
tongue in cheek way, tackling the topic

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and releasing the data. So I
think it's great news and fascinating stuff that's

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right, and just another thing moving
things along as it seems. Huh yeah.

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And it's you know, that's been
like since I started kind of following

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the UFO world, the idea of
disclosure, and the government finally admitting,

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you know, what's been going on
in the secret they've been hiding. It's

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it's just been, you know,
slowly, it's been inching along, but

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I feel like in the last year
or two things have really been moving the

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you know, the American government has
said a whole lot of stuff that you

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know, X files kind of predicted
they would, I guess, but it's

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the American government has said a lot. The Canadian government has never been that

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secretive about it and their interest in
it. But I think what else is

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interesting is lately is you're seeing a
lot of private researchers really opening the doors

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to their work. So of course, when Stanton Friedman passed Rest in Peace,

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Stanton, a wealth of UFO documents
were released. And I don't know

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if you gave it to a university, but I believe the plan is they're

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going to organize it and allow access
to it. And I don't know if

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many kind of UFO researchers of yester
years have done things like that, have

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really like publicly shared their life's work
basically, And I think that's just another

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step in uncovering what the heck is
going on up there. Interesting. I

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know, I think somebody did that
with photographs, and I don't want to

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get the name wrong, so I'm
not going to bring it up. But

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I think they gave or like legacy
of big photograph collection over two. I

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think Open Minds may have had had
purchased that or something. I'm not really

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sure exactly what happened, but yeah, what I like with like, say,

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what Stanton's done is it's not even
just a selection of his work or

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his research. It's basically the way
I understand it is it's like a truckload

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of documents and books and hard drives
with data of god knows what, and

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it's just like I would love to
be the person who is in charge of

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going through that, like I guess
the archibist who goes through and organizes that,

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because I'm sure there's some really interesting
things in there that even Stanton probably

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for good he uncovered back in you
know, the sixties or something. Sure,

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Yeah, I know Dave Marler,
who's going to be on the show

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coming up in a couple of weeks, has quite a library going in the

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States, you know, down in
the Albuquerque area, So he is really,

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you know, conserving a lot of
files and they're eventually going to go

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to a university there. So yeah, and I love when universities get things

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because you know, one thing,
it's going to be extremely well taken care

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of, exactly, and you know
in students, curious minds are going to

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have access to that stuff open to
everyone exactly. We won't steal his thunder

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because he's going to talk about it. But this topic is absolutely perfect for

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your guests, Chris Kowski, because
anyone who goes on Google and searches UFOs,

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you're in the last three four weeks
or so, you're going to find

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articles about him opening the doors of
his you know, in Canada, he's

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the guy. People call him the
Canadian UFO guy, and even that is

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understating it. Like him opening the
doors to his collection and sharing it is.

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I can't even express how amazing that
is for people who are interested in

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this topic. Yeah, speaking of
that, we do have a blog that's

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in the show notes that has to
do all with at collection that I'm gonna

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be talking to Chris about. We
also have a new blog up. These

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blogs are written by Charles Zeer,
who writes for the show. We have

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another blog up called UFOs over Canada. It's kind of a broadbrush strokes of

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a number of different UFO incidents in
Canada, you know, all the good

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famous ones, Falcon Lake and all
that. Who is writing that? Oh

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that's Charles Lear. He writes for
the show, okay, once a week.

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But we put out a blog,
okay, and that's okay. I

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thought it was like an ongoing blog. That's like one post is about the

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Canada UFO events. Cool. Yeah, yeah, we have some real interesting

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ones. I'm sure Chris is going
to get into it. But people who

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watch your show internationally outside of Canada, they probably don't know about the Falcon

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Lake UFO event. And that's Chris
is kind of the guy and telling that

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story and that story and his work
and maintaining the legacy of that story is

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going to blow your listener's minds.
And he gets into it. Yeah,

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yeah, I want to. I
do want to. I want to get

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into that because that's another fascinating one. Um. You know, I'm going

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to also mention that I think someone
has wrote me a while back saying that

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was all a hoax, and I
just want to hear what his thoughts are

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on that as well. Yeah,
I'm sure he'll have a lot to say

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about that. Yeah, yeah,
so you said earlier you you had did

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I hear you say something about some
dirt or something like that, Well,

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not dirt, I said, it's
just a controversial topic. And it's like,

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I'm sure if we even bring this
up, people in the comments are

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probably gonna tell me to go back
to Canada or you know, some awful

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thing like that. But it's I'm
sure, I'm sure you're aware of this.

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But there's been a lot of drama
surrounding the man behind this YouTube channel.

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Secure team name is yeah, Secure
Teams Tyler, Yeah, Secure Team

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ten. And of course, like
anyone who follows this topic is aware that

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there's a lot of debate about if
it's all you know, him creating hoax

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video as a way to you know, gain money and promote himself or whatever.

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And that's a topic neither of us
can figure out. But the big

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or neither of us probably care to
get into that. But yeah, the

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big kind of controversy right now is
he was criminal charges laid against him.

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He was arrested and charged with driving
while intoxicated. But shortly after the arrest,

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I guess as the channel went silent
for a bit, and then he

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came back with a video basically denying
it and claiming in no uncertain terms that

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he's the victim of a basically a
setup in a cover up. Did you

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did you see the video? Do
you know what I'm talking about? Um?

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Yeah, someone sent it to me, so I did. I did

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happen to watch it? Um?
You know? And uh, uh yeah,

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I mean if he if he's got
some type of issues, it's it's

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uh, you know, we don't
want to uh you know, get into

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that. But anyway, it's a
I don't have any problem though, talking

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about his videos because so um,
not all of them, but a lot

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of them are CGI and you know
a lot of them are hoaxes. And

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he has two million or so subscribers
to his channel. That's a money machine

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right there. Yeah, and you
know it makes it makes us all look

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bad, because that's right, his
channel has a huge reach. And often

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when I'm in kind of a mixed
company, if it ever comes up my

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interest in the UFO phenomenon, it's
it's very common that someone will say I

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see video. You know, there's
a guy on YouTube named Secure Team ten

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is videos are crazy and it's you
know, and so the public is kind

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of their first interaction with the phenomenon
beyond fiction like a movie hopefully isn't but

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maybe you know, a secure Team
ten video and that's that's kind of sad,

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well it you know, I've I've
said a few times on the show,

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and and I don't you know,
I do get a lot of backlash

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for any calling out that I do, but I will the person that is

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just getting interested in the topic,
that will go online and want to look

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at UFOs. I don't want them
to see fakes. There's plenty out there

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that isn't and there's been plenty of
sightings that aren't fake, and for someone

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to get tainted, you know,
right away, there's a third phase of

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the moon and uh and this site
and uh, you know, and not

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not all of the videos are fraudulent, but a lot of them are.

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And there's no you know, we're
in the wild West here, there's no

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way to regulate something like that.
So it's it's a viewer beware type of

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thing, you know. And it's
kind of like in the art world,

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we say that everything is guilty to
proven innocent, you know, and that's

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that's kind of how you have to
look at a UFO video is try to

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find something wrong with it and and
you know, and there was one recently.

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I don't know what channel was on
it, but whoever posted it said

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that there were and it was pretty
darn good looking too, if you ask

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me. And whoever posted it said
there were hundreds of hundreds of witnesses,

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but there were no other videos and
no, there was no other mention of

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who the witnesses were. Yeah,
so you know, I don't know.

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Yeah, there's a there's a guy
on I follow him on Facebook and YouTube,

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and I think people he's almost like
the kryptonite to Secure Team. I

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don't know if you ever heard of
him. His name is Scott Brando,

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but he uses I think he's Italian
in his channel and name on Twitter as

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UFO of Interest and basically his whole
purpose I guess that with his social media

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channel is to debunk hoaxers, and
he does a really good job at Like

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what he'll do is if there's ever
anything in you know, in the media

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or in the news of a viral
video going around, or if Secure Team

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posts something, he's very quick to
find kind of like the you know,

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the artwork, maybe that they are
manipulating and animating to make it look as

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a UFO video, or he's really
good at tracing the history of a viral

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video to figure out you know who
first posted it and you know who changed

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it or added a story to it
to exaggerate it more. But if you've

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never seen this guy, you should
look him up again. It's Scott Brando's

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UFO of interest. And actually,
Martin, I think if you checked him

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out, you'd you'd probably think of
him as a good guest for your show.

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He really knows the stuff. Well, there was I had a a

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Cay I'm on my show years ago, and she used to call herself Sheila

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Aliens and I don't know whatever happened
to her, but she was doing the

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basically the same thing she was.
She was going through and debunking and calling

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people out and she was really doing
a pretty good job at it. Interesting.

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Yeah, uh yeah, we need
to be self policing when it comes

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to this because you know, uh, you know, we have to watch

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out for the people getting interest in
this, because otherwise they'll just think it's

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all, you know, a big
hoax. And yeah, there's so much

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really going on. Yeah, it's
a delicate topic too. It's because it's

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00:22:11,200 --> 00:22:15,839
it's so vague and it's so much
is left to belief and whatnot that it's

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really hard. The barrier to entry
is very, very hefty, because you

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really got to know what to look
at and what to look for to really

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understand that I should come in.
And all it takes is somebody with a

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big voice that's just spewing nonsense to
really throw things off. You know,

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I haven't mentioned this yet, but
for the person that's first time that that's

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actually heard you on this show.
You and I met, of course quite

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a while ago. You were listening
to this show and we connected. But

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can you we have just a couple
of minutes here, can you tell them

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about your wonderful podcast that I actually
listened to. I listened to a handful

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of podcasts and yours is one of
them and kind of enjoyable. Yeah.

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My show is called Nighttime. I
cover Canadian crime mysteries, strange stories like

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kind of the way I see it
is. I just try to find interesting

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things from Canadian history and basically do
like an audio documentary or like a radio

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documentary to share the story. So
sometimes it's a missing person, sometimes it's

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a UFO event. And I've done
quite a bit of UFO centric episodes.

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So I think listeners your show if
they just searched Nighttime on Apple Podcasts,

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or go to Nighttime podcast dot com
or find my channel on YouTube which is

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just Nighttime Pod. Yeah, you'll
find some cool UFO stories that probably you're

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00:23:41,240 --> 00:23:48,400
that you're probably unaware of because again
I'm covering Canadian topics. Yeah right,

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00:23:48,720 --> 00:23:52,440
someone just wrote in the chat room
that UFO Interests has been at this for

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00:23:52,839 --> 00:23:56,680
six years. It looks like wow, Yeah, he really impressed me,

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that guy, Scott Brando. Yeah, So what do you have for shows

331
00:24:00,119 --> 00:24:03,839
coming up? Who had I was
trying to think of the ones recently,

332
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the one uh you had where that
their house people's houses got fried in the

333
00:24:08,680 --> 00:24:14,599
inside all the wiring. Yeah.
But the Bell Island boom, that's a

334
00:24:14,759 --> 00:24:18,960
Bell Island is a small island in
Newfoundland and it basically was a some kind

335
00:24:18,960 --> 00:24:23,400
of aerial explosion, basically an explosion
in the sky that caused all sorts of

336
00:24:23,440 --> 00:24:29,359
anomalous electrical activity. So I did
a three part series on that where I

337
00:24:29,480 --> 00:24:33,160
am Part one was just discussing the
event and going through kind of the news

338
00:24:33,279 --> 00:24:37,279
archives. The second part was breaking
it down a bit further with the hosts

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00:24:37,319 --> 00:24:41,599
of the Astonishing Legends podcast, which
are two guys that I partner with a

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lot. And then the third part
was I met with an interviewed. She

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was a young woman living in the
home at the time that is seen as

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00:24:49,079 --> 00:24:52,640
ground zero, but I interviewed her
now as an older lady still living in

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the house. And for anyone who
hasn't heard a Newfoundland accent, if you

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listen to that episode, you'll hear
something really unique. Right, Hey,

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00:25:00,920 --> 00:25:03,319
Jordan, we got to go to
break, so hey, thanks so much.

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00:25:03,359 --> 00:25:06,440
I really appreciate you. Thanks for
having me. Martin, say hi

347
00:25:06,480 --> 00:25:10,119
to Chris for me. I will
and we'll be right back. We're going

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00:25:10,160 --> 00:25:14,759
to a real break here and we'll
be right back with our guests. Chris

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Rototski. Alrighty, welcome back.
We have Chris Rotowski Rakowski. I have

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00:25:48,720 --> 00:25:51,400
a hard time with that name.
I'm sorry, Chris, all right,

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00:25:51,720 --> 00:25:55,079
all right, yeah, thank you
for coming on the show. It's been

352
00:25:55,119 --> 00:25:59,240
a long time. Last time.
I actually we kind of hung out a

353
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little bit here and there out in
Phoenix. How many years ago was that?

354
00:26:02,599 --> 00:26:07,359
Oh? Boy, was that twenty
sixteen or earlier than that. I

355
00:26:07,359 --> 00:26:11,920
can't even remember now. Yeah,
yeah, But anyway, I am excited

356
00:26:11,920 --> 00:26:15,960
to have you on the show for
a lot of reasons. But for the

357
00:26:17,039 --> 00:26:19,839
person that doesn't know who you are, can you give a little bit of

358
00:26:19,839 --> 00:26:25,480
your background and what got you interested
in this amazing topic. I think it's

359
00:26:25,519 --> 00:26:30,720
amazing. Oh well, it goes
back a few years. I started investigating

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UFOs back in the seventies. If
you can believe that, one of my

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00:26:34,319 --> 00:26:41,480
mentors was Alan Heineck himself. He
had come up to Canada as part of

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an investigation of his on some UFOs
that were seen up in Manitoba in nineteen

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00:26:48,880 --> 00:26:53,079
seventy five. I got to know
him back then. Actually, I formed

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00:26:53,640 --> 00:26:59,240
what was then called the Manitoba Center
for Ufo Studies and progressed into the ufology

365
00:26:59,279 --> 00:27:03,440
research of man Hobo and now simply
uphology research over the years. I've been

366
00:27:03,480 --> 00:27:08,160
investigating for quite a few years.
My background is in astronomy and education.

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00:27:08,200 --> 00:27:17,880
I have degrees in astronomy and education. I've traveled widely investigating, published many

368
00:27:18,400 --> 00:27:22,920
papers and books on the subject.
I'm probably best known for two things.

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One is the annual Canadian UFO Survey, which looks at all the UFO reports

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that were filed in Canada in a
single year. We're actually in our thirty

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00:27:30,160 --> 00:27:37,839
first year of doing this, which
yeah, wow for me too. And

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the other thing I think people have
probably seen me probably on some shows like

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00:27:41,960 --> 00:27:45,759
Unsolved Mysteries and a few others talking
about the Falcon Lake UFO case of nineteen

374
00:27:45,839 --> 00:27:52,160
sixty seven, which we reopened as
a cold case in the nineteen eighties and

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00:27:52,200 --> 00:28:00,359
just recently published a book called When
They Appeared with co author stand Hollak,

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00:28:00,359 --> 00:28:03,799
who is the son of the primary
witness, and we tell the story of

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00:28:04,759 --> 00:28:10,319
what really happened back then when they
appeared, not talking about they meeting aliens

378
00:28:10,319 --> 00:28:15,480
necessarily, but the family was taken
aback when the Row, Canadian Mounted Police,

379
00:28:15,559 --> 00:28:19,640
the Rote, Canadian Air Force,
UFO investigators, curiosity seekers all descended

380
00:28:19,680 --> 00:28:26,039
on their small home in the city
of Winnipeg after when the word got out

381
00:28:26,119 --> 00:28:32,000
that mister Stefan Mahalak had encountered what
was described as a flying saucerer, the

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00:28:32,000 --> 00:28:38,920
Hollywood style flying saucer about an hour
north of the American border. And the

383
00:28:40,000 --> 00:28:42,720
case has been one of the best
ones on record anywhere around the world.

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00:28:42,799 --> 00:28:48,480
So it's I've been investigating things recently
and then looking into some of the older

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00:28:48,519 --> 00:28:52,519
stuff too, because out of some
of the old cases you can find some

386
00:28:52,559 --> 00:28:56,640
real treasures. Absolutely, and I
do want to talk about the Falcon Lake

387
00:28:56,119 --> 00:29:00,279
case in depth a little bit later
on. First before we go there.

388
00:29:00,279 --> 00:29:06,119
Do you ever have any earthquakes in
uh in Canada? Oh? Absolutely,

389
00:29:06,119 --> 00:29:11,119
earthquakes in Canada. I'm just looking
behind you. I see those big bowling

390
00:29:11,160 --> 00:29:18,119
balls up on the top shelf.
Oh yes, my star globe and a

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00:29:18,200 --> 00:29:22,920
moon globe. Actually it's the astronomy
thing, plus some of my book.

392
00:29:23,000 --> 00:29:29,039
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, well yeah, oh yeah yeah yeah,

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00:29:29,079 --> 00:29:33,400
we've and actually one of the other
things I've produced was a detailed paper

394
00:29:33,640 --> 00:29:37,960
on the tectonic strain theory. Michael
Persinger, who his name might not be

395
00:29:38,000 --> 00:29:45,279
familiar to some people, but he
was a researcher in physiological psychology and experiential

396
00:29:45,440 --> 00:29:51,319
psychology who believed that earthquakes were related
to UFOs dating back to related to what

397
00:29:51,440 --> 00:29:56,000
gender and the Upper Midwest was studying
and so forth, and suggested that people

398
00:29:56,079 --> 00:30:03,400
are across North America, um,
we're seeing UFOs that were actually energy emissions

399
00:30:03,519 --> 00:30:08,200
from very very minor earthquakes that jumped
into the sky from from cracks that's eventually

400
00:30:08,319 --> 00:30:11,920
erupted. Yeah, yeah, the
earthquake lights. So yeah, I've heard.

401
00:30:11,279 --> 00:30:15,400
I've definitely heard about them, which
is really fascinating. I've wanted to,

402
00:30:17,319 --> 00:30:18,640
well, I think it's great.
First of all, their churner astronomer.

403
00:30:18,640 --> 00:30:22,759
And then you have an interest in
this because you know a lot of

404
00:30:22,759 --> 00:30:26,160
people will say things like, oh, you know, no one, you

405
00:30:26,160 --> 00:30:29,519
know, no astronomers are going to
be interested in in the UFO topic.

406
00:30:29,599 --> 00:30:33,759
Are you know it would hurt their
career or all that. Have you ever

407
00:30:33,880 --> 00:30:38,160
had any negative things happen to you
because you have an interest in UFOs as

408
00:30:38,160 --> 00:30:44,920
well? I wouldn't say negative necessarily. Certainly, some of my colleagues looked

409
00:30:44,920 --> 00:30:47,720
as scans at me when I took
an interest in UFOs. In fact,

410
00:30:47,720 --> 00:30:53,279
I got into the UFO thing because
as an undergraduate student in astronomy, my

411
00:30:53,359 --> 00:30:57,039
professors were insistent that UFOs were nonsense
and you know, the the you know,

412
00:30:57,039 --> 00:31:00,400
people who see them are a little
touched in the head or they're just

413
00:31:00,480 --> 00:31:04,839
seeing spots before their eyes or something
like that. And in the nineteen seventies

414
00:31:06,079 --> 00:31:12,279
there was a fairly significant flap in
fact, developed into a wave and I

415
00:31:12,480 --> 00:31:15,759
the call started coming into the astronomy
department, and my professors were getting a

416
00:31:15,759 --> 00:31:21,920
little bit flustered and annoyed at all
these people who are interrupting their serious research

417
00:31:21,960 --> 00:31:25,319
with their UFO stories. And I
sort of jumped in and said, well,

418
00:31:25,319 --> 00:31:27,400
you know what, why don't you
just give the calls to me,

419
00:31:27,440 --> 00:31:32,839
because I'm my office is right around
the corner from yours, and I'll be

420
00:31:32,839 --> 00:31:34,160
glad to talk to these people.
I thought I would suck up to the

421
00:31:34,200 --> 00:31:37,519
props, you know, try and
get on their good side. So I

422
00:31:37,559 --> 00:31:41,039
started talking with the people who were
calling, and Bygali, you know,

423
00:31:41,079 --> 00:31:45,279
these people didn't sound crazy. They
simply were seeing some things that were very

424
00:31:45,359 --> 00:31:49,759
unusual, and I could explain a
great many of them, but there were

425
00:31:49,799 --> 00:31:55,559
some cases that I just wasn't sure
what they were. And over the years

426
00:31:55,640 --> 00:32:00,480
I became you know, the guy
who was given the UFO. It's over

427
00:32:00,880 --> 00:32:06,440
over the course of time. Isn't
that something amazing? How how one little

428
00:32:06,440 --> 00:32:08,559
turn in the road can just change
your whole life like that. That's amazing.

429
00:32:08,640 --> 00:32:13,039
Absolutely absolutely, yeah, um,
you know, I know we're going

430
00:32:13,079 --> 00:32:17,640
to be doing the show on UFOs, but i've the dark matter and dark

431
00:32:17,759 --> 00:32:22,680
energy. UM. You know,
I had Seth Shostak on I don't know

432
00:32:22,720 --> 00:32:24,920
a few months ago and he was
saying, you know, give me some

433
00:32:25,039 --> 00:32:30,119
UFO evidence, and I said,
give me some dark matter evidence and not

434
00:32:30,359 --> 00:32:34,279
you know, but he basically you're
saying, there's plenty out there that shows

435
00:32:34,319 --> 00:32:37,119
that dark matter exists, but we
don't really know for sure. I mean,

436
00:32:37,519 --> 00:32:43,440
I eventually I'd like to talk to
someone an astronomer about um dark matter

437
00:32:43,480 --> 00:32:49,480
because you know, we're we're we're
assuming something is there by the way galaxies

438
00:32:49,799 --> 00:32:54,680
behave and you know, but maybe
there's something about gravity that we don't understand,

439
00:32:54,799 --> 00:33:00,680
or isn't there a lot of other
possibilities besides an actual matter that's causing

440
00:33:00,720 --> 00:33:05,680
these things to happen? Well,
I mean my astrophysics courses were quite a

441
00:33:05,680 --> 00:33:09,640
few years ago. But the problem
with the dark matter and the and the

442
00:33:09,680 --> 00:33:15,359
galaxies and the universe itself is that
we're we're, uh, we're not seeing

443
00:33:15,400 --> 00:33:22,039
the right number, the right amount
of material that's required to uh to you

444
00:33:22,039 --> 00:33:24,480
know, to keep their universe moving
the way it is. UM. And

445
00:33:24,960 --> 00:33:29,200
they're suggesting that, you know,
there's some matter that we simply don't don't

446
00:33:29,279 --> 00:33:34,000
see because it's hidden in galaxies and
it's hidden in various other ways. So

447
00:33:34,119 --> 00:33:38,000
yeah, the problem of dark matter
isn't an insignificant one. UM. But

448
00:33:38,079 --> 00:33:43,799
I mean there's many many other issues
in astronomy and astrophysics that are curious.

449
00:33:44,559 --> 00:33:47,720
I mean, Uh, there's a
colleague of mine at the university who studies

450
00:33:47,759 --> 00:33:55,039
magnetars neutron stars that are so dense
that they're basically giant magnets. Uh,

451
00:33:55,079 --> 00:34:00,480
you know, hundreds and thousands of
kilometers across that are are doing some very

452
00:34:00,480 --> 00:34:05,920
strange things to other stars and to
matter in the in the in the universe.

453
00:34:05,960 --> 00:34:09,400
So there are some amazing things out
there. And it's why I got

454
00:34:09,440 --> 00:34:13,800
into astronomy because it's, uh,
there are some great mysteries. It's the

455
00:34:13,840 --> 00:34:17,480
type of thing you can just lie
in your back and look up and um,

456
00:34:19,039 --> 00:34:22,239
it gives you a completely different perspective
when you can put all of that

457
00:34:22,599 --> 00:34:25,800
behind you and see what's going on
in the universe. Um. You know,

458
00:34:27,000 --> 00:34:30,880
not to get too far off the
UFO topic, but UM, I've

459
00:34:30,880 --> 00:34:35,960
heard that there's you know, the
theory of the multiverse, um fits in

460
00:34:36,119 --> 00:34:39,280
nicely with all the Spider Man especially
I think is right on with that.

461
00:34:40,280 --> 00:34:45,800
Um okay, yeah, I mean
there's no question that that, you know,

462
00:34:45,840 --> 00:34:50,719
there's there's all sorts of great theories
about multiverses and multidimensions and parallel universes

463
00:34:50,760 --> 00:34:52,360
and all that sort of stuff,
and I hear it all a lot in

464
00:34:52,519 --> 00:34:55,840
uphology, and the problem is that
it is just speculation. I mean,

465
00:34:55,840 --> 00:35:00,440
we don't have any evidence that these
things exist. And even is saying that,

466
00:35:00,480 --> 00:35:04,840
you know, well, the UFO
popped into another dimension, Well that's

467
00:35:04,840 --> 00:35:09,840
a little flippant because the science behind
that is simply a science fiction. At

468
00:35:09,840 --> 00:35:14,880
this point, we don't have any
way of even conceiving of how that could

469
00:35:14,920 --> 00:35:16,840
be done. We know that there
are other dimensions, you know, you

470
00:35:17,000 --> 00:35:21,880
may have heard the fact that there's
eleven dimensions inside of every atom, But

471
00:35:22,079 --> 00:35:24,840
on the macro scale, what we
got are these four that we are very

472
00:35:24,840 --> 00:35:29,719
familiar with. So we have to
deal with what we have. And right

473
00:35:29,760 --> 00:35:32,239
now I like talking a little bit
more of the nuts and bolts, even

474
00:35:32,280 --> 00:35:36,679
though I know the latest thing in
upology is consciousness and who knows where that

475
00:35:36,719 --> 00:35:40,960
goes. Have you yourself ever had
any type of sighting that you can explain?

476
00:35:43,320 --> 00:35:45,760
No, I've never really had anything
that really puzzled me, and people

477
00:35:45,800 --> 00:35:51,000
say, well, why are you
into this then, because I'm fascinated with

478
00:35:51,039 --> 00:35:55,400
the possibility in addition to the astronomy
aspect, and that's just one possibility with

479
00:35:55,400 --> 00:35:59,960
regard to UFOs. I mean,
I was also part of the Folklore Study

480
00:36:00,559 --> 00:36:06,639
Association of Canada looking at UFOs as
as part of a popular mythology and you

481
00:36:06,679 --> 00:36:08,519
know, part of our quest for
understanding who we are in the universe.

482
00:36:09,280 --> 00:36:17,840
But also I've given lectures in to
departments of religious studies, I've had interesting

483
00:36:17,840 --> 00:36:23,320
discussions with people in an engineering fields, and I'm going to be judging a

484
00:36:23,400 --> 00:36:30,280
science fair in a few weeks and
so it's for me it's more important to

485
00:36:30,360 --> 00:36:36,159
engage people in the discussions of possibilities, regardless of whether you believe that UFOs

486
00:36:36,199 --> 00:36:38,960
exist or not, whether there's aliens
out there or not. Even just talking

487
00:36:39,000 --> 00:36:46,360
about it and getting into some fascinating
realms of discourse I think really opens your

488
00:36:46,400 --> 00:36:52,039
mind. Because we happen to live
in the Steven Spielberg generation, or I

489
00:36:52,039 --> 00:36:55,360
guess maybe we're in the James Cameron's
generation now, where you can go to

490
00:36:55,440 --> 00:37:01,440
a movie and uh and turn on
the TV and see aliens pictured and conceive

491
00:37:01,480 --> 00:37:06,320
of travel between the stars. So
it's getting quite commonplace. And the fact

492
00:37:06,400 --> 00:37:14,280
is that the study of UFO reports
is really the foundation upon all of that,

493
00:37:14,440 --> 00:37:20,679
and we use it very easily,
you know, everyday conversation and papers

494
00:37:20,679 --> 00:37:24,960
and books and magazines and all that
sort of stuff. But the reality is

495
00:37:24,960 --> 00:37:29,760
without the UFO reports, we don't
have any connection to that, and that's

496
00:37:29,760 --> 00:37:32,159
why I think it's important to look
at the serious side of ufology and the

497
00:37:32,199 --> 00:37:37,119
reports themselves. Yes, and I
do want to talk about the reports that

498
00:37:37,159 --> 00:37:42,360
you sent over to the University of
Manitoba or and we will talk about that

499
00:37:42,400 --> 00:37:45,519
in just a minute. But I
did want to ask this question from a

500
00:37:45,599 --> 00:37:49,679
listener before I forgot uh and you
were off the show, and I remember

501
00:37:49,760 --> 00:37:52,719
next week, so this is uh, Libertists. It's kind of a long

502
00:37:52,719 --> 00:37:59,760
whisted, long winded question. But
now Libertists asked the following. I have

503
00:37:59,800 --> 00:38:07,159
recently learned you are Canada's representative to
the Five Continents Forum. Other than their

504
00:38:07,320 --> 00:38:13,559
articles of association which are available on
the Internet and fact and the fact that

505
00:38:13,639 --> 00:38:17,639
it is being funded by China,
very little information is known about the organization

506
00:38:17,800 --> 00:38:23,320
other than their first meeting was held
in twenty eighteen in Moscow, Russia.

507
00:38:23,519 --> 00:38:29,760
Would you please tell us about the
organization, how many countries it involves,

508
00:38:29,840 --> 00:38:37,039
and what its goals are. There's
very little information in the US right well.

509
00:38:37,039 --> 00:38:44,960
The Five Continents Group has met twice. The first one was you know,

510
00:38:45,199 --> 00:38:50,000
some time ago in China. The
most recent one was in Moscow.

511
00:38:50,800 --> 00:38:54,239
I was invited to go, unfortunately
at the last minute I was unable to

512
00:38:54,280 --> 00:39:01,239
go. And the ideas to create
a scientific forum bringing together some experts from

513
00:39:01,360 --> 00:39:08,639
the various countries to engage a little
bit more and try and hammer out what's

514
00:39:08,679 --> 00:39:15,360
really going on from a scientific standpoint. I know the Bill Chalker from Australia

515
00:39:16,079 --> 00:39:21,039
went to the first one. In
fact, we discussed about going to the

516
00:39:21,440 --> 00:39:25,320
Moscow one. He wasn't able to
go as well. But there are a

517
00:39:25,400 --> 00:39:28,840
number of people involved, and I
have to be honest, since I didn't

518
00:39:28,840 --> 00:39:34,119
go to the Moscow one, I
don't know much about what was discussed there.

519
00:39:34,960 --> 00:39:43,280
But I think it's a really grood
opportunity for scientists and experts from around

520
00:39:43,320 --> 00:39:45,639
the globe to get together. I
mean we talk about you know, mouf

521
00:39:45,679 --> 00:39:51,639
On conferences and the UFO Congress every
year but just imagine if you could get

522
00:39:51,679 --> 00:39:58,079
together the UFO experts from literally all
the continents on Earth just to talk a

523
00:39:58,119 --> 00:40:01,159
little bit and share information. That's
very ambitious and I actually I'm not even

524
00:40:01,280 --> 00:40:07,199
sure of who's funding this, but
it's it's quite an ambitious project, and

525
00:40:07,239 --> 00:40:09,079
I look forward to knowing more about
it in some of the future meetings.

526
00:40:09,159 --> 00:40:13,519
That's about all I know. Wow, yeah, that is interesting. I

527
00:40:13,519 --> 00:40:15,760
had never even heard about it until
this listener wrote me about it. I

528
00:40:15,800 --> 00:40:19,880
guess he's been doing a lot of
digging trying to figure out what is going

529
00:40:19,920 --> 00:40:23,639
on. Curious that you don't know
who that who's funding it? That that

530
00:40:23,800 --> 00:40:27,519
is imp If I had gone to
mocks in Moscow, I would have found

531
00:40:27,519 --> 00:40:30,000
out. But yeah, I never
I never met them. How about that?

532
00:40:30,480 --> 00:40:35,960
Well, I hope it's someone that
just has pure interest and no other,

533
00:40:36,239 --> 00:40:39,159
you know, motives other than that. Most likely it sounds like it.

534
00:40:39,960 --> 00:40:45,599
M Yeah, so we have about
ten minutes, and I don't think

535
00:40:45,639 --> 00:40:49,239
that's going to be long enough to
get into the Falcon Lake. But let's

536
00:40:49,280 --> 00:40:53,840
talk about what your donation right now, If you google your name, many

537
00:40:54,000 --> 00:40:59,599
articles come up that you donate it. I think it's twenty thousand UFO reports

538
00:41:00,440 --> 00:41:05,519
to the university. So let's talk
about that in general. What was what

539
00:41:05,920 --> 00:41:08,679
is that about? It's actually a
little bit more than twenty thousand. And

540
00:41:08,800 --> 00:41:15,840
I mentioned earlier that we're doing the
annual Canadian UFO Survey, and we've been

541
00:41:15,880 --> 00:41:22,639
doing it for thirty one years and
every year there's somewhere around a thousand UFO

542
00:41:22,719 --> 00:41:29,719
reports in Canada alone that are filed
in previous years. As we started,

543
00:41:29,920 --> 00:41:32,639
there's a little bit less than that, but in total, there's something like

544
00:41:32,679 --> 00:41:37,440
twenty thousand UFO reports up until last
year. We're a little bit over that

545
00:41:37,519 --> 00:41:43,599
now. And in addition, you
know, talk about Falcon Lake, but

546
00:41:43,639 --> 00:41:46,840
there's also other government documents that are
part of the donation. Behind me,

547
00:41:46,880 --> 00:41:52,880
you can see some of my bookshelves
which are starting to get a little bear.

548
00:41:52,920 --> 00:41:54,360
You may not be able to tell
that from from behind me, but

549
00:41:54,559 --> 00:41:59,840
I'm also donating my UFO library.
And the idea was that I was speaking

550
00:42:00,079 --> 00:42:04,559
with somebody at the archives at the
University of Manitoba, and I guess I

551
00:42:04,599 --> 00:42:08,960
have a bit of a reputation.
I do some media and i'd actually won

552
00:42:10,920 --> 00:42:19,199
an award for outreach in education regarding
UFOs and astronomy and because of this,

553
00:42:20,639 --> 00:42:24,639
my collection has been quite significant over
the years in gathering steam. And the

554
00:42:24,719 --> 00:42:29,719
archivist said, well, you know, we have eclectic collections in the University

555
00:42:29,719 --> 00:42:35,440
of Manitoba Archives. And most people
are unaware that the University of Manitoba Archives

556
00:42:35,559 --> 00:42:45,239
has a huge collection of paranormal artifacts. It has. Dan Ackroyd's father,

557
00:42:45,320 --> 00:42:51,280
for example, was a ghost hunter
and paranormala investigator, and his archives his

558
00:42:51,400 --> 00:42:54,679
funds are in the archives at University
of Manitoba, along with many many others

559
00:42:54,719 --> 00:43:02,920
who are into everything from channeling,
say on is uh electronic voice phenomena esp

560
00:43:04,079 --> 00:43:09,599
psychic research. Um, you know
there are spoons bent by uh some uh

561
00:43:10,440 --> 00:43:15,320
you know people who are into uh
you know some of the psychic events around

562
00:43:15,320 --> 00:43:20,119
those. Um, there are crystals, there's dowsing. Uh. It's a

563
00:43:20,199 --> 00:43:23,440
huge collection, and some of that
already included a little bit about UFOs.

564
00:43:23,679 --> 00:43:28,360
So I thought the uh, it
seemed a no brainer to include the UFO

565
00:43:28,400 --> 00:43:30,639
stuff in my collection. And so
I was approached and I said, you

566
00:43:30,639 --> 00:43:34,639
know, what are you going to
do with this stuff eventually? And I

567
00:43:34,719 --> 00:43:37,960
was wondering about that. Um,
you know, twenty thousand UFO reports take

568
00:43:38,039 --> 00:43:42,880
up a lot of room in my
home. The books actually take up more

569
00:43:42,960 --> 00:43:47,519
than than one room. Uh.
And then there's all the other uphod zines

570
00:43:47,760 --> 00:43:53,719
and other artifacts that comprised my collection, and you know, for the offer

571
00:43:53,760 --> 00:44:00,679
to make them available uh to people
in the future some tour searchers was quite

572
00:44:00,719 --> 00:44:06,199
an appealing. And there's also a
crowdfunding campaign that the university has started up

573
00:44:06,519 --> 00:44:12,079
to digitize the collection so that in
the future would be possible in the same

574
00:44:12,119 --> 00:44:15,400
way that some of the other collections. Blue Book at one time was available

575
00:44:15,400 --> 00:44:17,960
online and it's sort of disappeared now, but some people have copies of it.

576
00:44:19,719 --> 00:44:23,280
But you know, twenty thousand cases, plus all the government documents that

577
00:44:23,320 --> 00:44:28,360
I've acquired over the years, which
most of which have not seen the light

578
00:44:28,400 --> 00:44:34,559
of day, and the book.
So the giving campaign for the crowdfunding is

579
00:44:34,559 --> 00:44:38,000
a great opportunity for the average person
with an interest in UFOs to help fund

580
00:44:38,159 --> 00:44:43,480
UFO research. And you know,
literally every dollar accounts and I think I

581
00:44:43,519 --> 00:44:49,079
gave you the link to provide to
readers of the blog and website if they

582
00:44:49,079 --> 00:44:52,679
want to help contribute to this.
Yes, I will be in the show

583
00:44:52,719 --> 00:44:55,199
notes for anyone that's listening on the
show and I'll try to get that up

584
00:44:55,239 --> 00:44:59,679
on their YouTube channel as a while. It maybe already. I believe it's

585
00:44:59,719 --> 00:45:02,920
actually there right now. Okay,
good, Yeah, So that's that's great.

586
00:45:04,199 --> 00:45:07,000
Are you familiar with Dave Marler.
He's kind of planning the same type

587
00:45:07,000 --> 00:45:12,679
of thing, you know, down
the road. I've met Dave and I'm

588
00:45:12,679 --> 00:45:15,519
a little bit further along than him
and age as well, so I have

589
00:45:15,559 --> 00:45:19,880
a little bit more more than in
the collection. But it's you know,

590
00:45:19,880 --> 00:45:22,480
it's the type of thing where you
know, bigali to be able to look

591
00:45:22,480 --> 00:45:28,239
at this stuff online. Uh,
And I mean a lot of the the

592
00:45:28,280 --> 00:45:36,039
Canadian National Archives have had it's UFO
archives available, uh, in physical form

593
00:45:36,239 --> 00:45:40,719
right from the start. I mean
there's disclosure in Canada is a real nothing

594
00:45:40,800 --> 00:45:46,079
because we have we've always had access
to the UFO files from the National Research

595
00:45:46,199 --> 00:45:50,880
Council than the groal, Canadian Air
Force and so forth. Simply they were

596
00:45:50,960 --> 00:45:54,079
in the National Archives. And the
National Archives of Canada have digitized eight or

597
00:45:54,159 --> 00:45:59,800
nine thousand documents in their collection,
so this is a little bit larger than

598
00:45:59,800 --> 00:46:04,519
their collection, um and twenty thousand
UFO reports is actually larger than blue books.

599
00:46:04,559 --> 00:46:07,679
So when this is finally made available. Um, you know it's it's

600
00:46:07,679 --> 00:46:13,920
going to be an interesting resource.
Yes, and as I believe I mentioned

601
00:46:13,920 --> 00:46:15,559
to Jordan maybe was off air,
I don't even know. But once,

602
00:46:16,039 --> 00:46:20,519
once this is in the hands of
a university, you know it's going to

603
00:46:20,559 --> 00:46:25,039
be taken care of. Absolutely,
it's in climate controlled conditions rather than a

604
00:46:25,159 --> 00:46:30,159
dusty basement. Yeah, so you
get your basement back, I do.

605
00:46:30,320 --> 00:46:31,480
Yeah, you're gonna have to make
a what do they call it a man

606
00:46:31,559 --> 00:46:36,840
cave or something out of it.
Yes, absolutely, UFO free. Um.

607
00:46:37,199 --> 00:46:40,800
Well, well that that's very very
kind of you to offer that,

608
00:46:40,920 --> 00:46:45,360
and uh, you know it'll be
a legacy also, um, you know,

609
00:46:45,519 --> 00:46:50,880
in tribute to all your work you've
done. Now, have you collected

610
00:46:50,920 --> 00:46:58,599
these UFO reports basically for Canada is
Yeah, this is this is all Canada.

611
00:46:58,800 --> 00:47:01,639
If you can just imagine, these
cases are all Canada. UM.

612
00:47:01,760 --> 00:47:06,880
I do have some cases from the
United States. I had did actually investigate

613
00:47:06,920 --> 00:47:10,320
in North Dakota and Minnesota personally,
uh, since it actually pretty close.

614
00:47:10,519 --> 00:47:15,800
Um. And then I have some
files on some of the more noted cases.

615
00:47:15,880 --> 00:47:17,400
You know, I have would do
a file on Roswell for example,

616
00:47:17,599 --> 00:47:23,679
and uh a Kecksburg and a cash
Landrum and things like that. So,

617
00:47:23,920 --> 00:47:28,800
I mean, I do have some
reports, but this is mostly a Canadian

618
00:47:28,800 --> 00:47:32,880
collection. Um. Standard Freedman.
After his passing, his family donated his

619
00:47:34,000 --> 00:47:38,960
huge amount of archives to the Province
of New Brunswick. So it's in government

620
00:47:39,079 --> 00:47:43,880
archives. Um. And you know
there are other archives that have been developed

621
00:47:43,880 --> 00:47:47,159
over the years. Uh. So
the you know, James McDonald has has

622
00:47:47,199 --> 00:47:52,679
his papers elsewhere. So you know, this is a fine tradition. And

623
00:47:52,079 --> 00:47:57,280
I think it's preserving this information so
it simply doesn't get lost, that's right.

624
00:47:57,519 --> 00:48:01,519
And digitizing, I think that's digitizing. That's so important for anyone that

625
00:48:01,800 --> 00:48:07,840
is curious and wants wants to book. Um. If you we just have

626
00:48:07,039 --> 00:48:13,599
a couple of minutes to break,
Um, besides the Falcon Lake incident,

627
00:48:13,679 --> 00:48:19,440
what are some of the really big
cases that really stand out in the history

628
00:48:19,480 --> 00:48:23,039
of Canada since you've been at this, well, I mean, I uh,

629
00:48:23,760 --> 00:48:29,159
a lot of cases have popped up
over the past forty years or so.

630
00:48:29,679 --> 00:48:31,320
UM, But I mean I have
to mention some of the other cases

631
00:48:31,360 --> 00:48:36,039
besides the Falcon Lake Shang Harbor,
which also took place in nineteen sixty seven.

632
00:48:36,079 --> 00:48:39,840
The object that I was supposed to
fall into the harbor UM. I

633
00:48:39,960 --> 00:48:45,320
was just over there last year for
their conference UM and uh, you know

634
00:48:45,400 --> 00:48:51,519
there there's a museum, there's a
commemoration sign and a and a guide post

635
00:48:51,639 --> 00:48:54,920
right at the at the shore.
Some of the witnesses are still around and

636
00:48:55,199 --> 00:49:00,880
I had an opportunity to speak with
them at at the conference, and they're

637
00:49:00,880 --> 00:49:04,679
going to be doing it again every
year to have something. Falcon Lake has

638
00:49:04,719 --> 00:49:07,559
something like this as well, and
then across Canada there have been a number

639
00:49:07,599 --> 00:49:15,079
of their cases. I know there's
a conference about the nineteen is it nineteen

640
00:49:15,159 --> 00:49:22,519
eighty nineteen ninety anniversary of the Hotel
Bonaventure report in Montreal. There's a conference

641
00:49:22,519 --> 00:49:28,280
actually happening in Montreal this year for
the celebration. And this is a case,

642
00:49:28,320 --> 00:49:35,639
if people aren't familiar, where dozens
and dozens of people including members of

643
00:49:35,679 --> 00:49:39,719
the police. There's some newspapers,
reporters. They took photographs of an object

644
00:49:39,800 --> 00:49:45,760
that was hovering or appeared to hover
over up on the top floor of a

645
00:49:45,880 --> 00:49:51,800
high rise hotel right in downtown Montreal. And too many this has not been

646
00:49:52,079 --> 00:49:57,000
satisfactorily explained as well. So you
know, there's some fascinating cases out there,

647
00:49:57,039 --> 00:49:59,960
and I just a matter of digging
out the information and trying to understand

648
00:50:00,119 --> 00:50:04,760
what was going on. Excellent.
So it looks like we're just about ready

649
00:50:04,760 --> 00:50:07,960
to go into break, so we
might as we'll hit that now and when

650
00:50:07,960 --> 00:50:12,559
we come back we will talk about
the Falcon Lake incident during the break.

651
00:50:12,559 --> 00:50:15,599
I want to speak to you too, because I always get a I always

652
00:50:15,599 --> 00:50:21,679
get a UFO event confused, and
I want to sort that out with you,

653
00:50:21,920 --> 00:50:24,159
and maybe we can talk about that
as well. In about a half

654
00:50:24,199 --> 00:50:29,840
hour in or so, we'll start
taking calls. So all right, everyone,

655
00:50:30,119 --> 00:50:32,400
so we're gonna go hit the break
right now and we'll be right back

656
00:50:32,960 --> 00:51:01,960
right after these see. All right, welcome back. My guest this evening

657
00:51:02,079 --> 00:51:12,559
is Chris Ratkowski and up in Canada
and we are talking Canada UFOs and there

658
00:51:12,559 --> 00:51:15,199
are a lot of great cases.
And Chris, thank you for helping me

659
00:51:15,239 --> 00:51:21,639
with the case. I was having
trouble remembering exactly, but you said it

660
00:51:20,760 --> 00:51:25,440
was. It was in the yukon
nineteen ninety six Fox Lake. The thing

661
00:51:25,440 --> 00:51:31,280
that struck me was and I remember
either reading about it or I must have

662
00:51:31,320 --> 00:51:36,880
read about it, that the witnesses
saw this a long way away and it

663
00:51:36,960 --> 00:51:42,639
was huge and there were many independent
witnesses, but they didn't all like get

664
00:51:42,679 --> 00:51:45,320
together, so there were separate accounts
of this incident. Can you talk about

665
00:51:45,320 --> 00:51:50,559
it right? A really great Canadian
researcher by the name of Martin ja Sek,

666
00:51:51,000 --> 00:51:55,599
as part of UFO BC, investigated
he had just heard something in the

667
00:51:55,639 --> 00:52:02,559
wind literally that something may have been
seen, and talked to some radio personalities

668
00:52:02,559 --> 00:52:05,400
and they said, well, yeah, we think it was a tip that

669
00:52:05,440 --> 00:52:08,239
happened somewhere in Fox Lake. He
ended up going from town to town to

670
00:52:08,239 --> 00:52:15,039
town talking to people if they had
seen this object. And what emerged was

671
00:52:15,119 --> 00:52:21,159
a very very consistent series of reports
of an object that in nineteen ninety six

672
00:52:22,760 --> 00:52:27,440
slowly and ponderously made its way along
the length of a of a lake as

673
00:52:27,480 --> 00:52:30,159
a highway that goes along the lake
between the lake and the mountain. And

674
00:52:30,960 --> 00:52:36,519
he found these uh he did what
was called a dig in ufology, where

675
00:52:36,559 --> 00:52:39,880
you go into an area that you
suspect there are some reports and just persistently

676
00:52:39,920 --> 00:52:45,440
talk to people at gas stations and
corner stores and bars until you find people.

677
00:52:46,039 --> 00:52:51,159
And he found originally thirty one and
I think over the course of a

678
00:52:51,199 --> 00:52:54,760
few more years he found in the
forties, and these people never spoke to

679
00:52:54,760 --> 00:53:00,760
one another. He had to track
them down. Family were living, you

680
00:53:00,800 --> 00:53:05,320
know, several miles away from one
another and never thought to tell anybody about

681
00:53:05,360 --> 00:53:09,320
what they had seen. They all
painted a similar picture of a very large

682
00:53:09,360 --> 00:53:16,760
object with windows that moved from the
lake over the mountain. And there were

683
00:53:17,039 --> 00:53:22,679
two brothers, sorry, two cousins, if I'm not mistaken, who had

684
00:53:22,719 --> 00:53:30,559
seen this object simultaneously from two different
directions. They're driving in two different vehicles.

685
00:53:30,559 --> 00:53:34,480
One was ahead of the other,
the further ahead. One stopped his

686
00:53:34,559 --> 00:53:39,039
truck, got out and watched this
thing fly directly overhead and described a very

687
00:53:39,159 --> 00:53:45,000
very round object with a bright light
on the bottom, like a classic saucer.

688
00:53:45,280 --> 00:53:51,519
But his cousin, who was about
a mile or two away, sought,

689
00:53:52,119 --> 00:53:54,519
you know, from a different ang
He sought from an oblique angle and

690
00:53:54,679 --> 00:54:00,000
saw what he described as a large
disc shaped object or a long cigar shape

691
00:54:00,119 --> 00:54:04,800
object, passing um, you know, directly over his brother's vehicles. So

692
00:54:05,360 --> 00:54:08,960
that's quite interesting. Now. There
have been some attempts to explain this,

693
00:54:09,320 --> 00:54:14,039
uh, and there's no question that
some of the reports do seem to coincide

694
00:54:14,079 --> 00:54:17,119
with the entry of a of a
Russian rocket booster about the same time.

695
00:54:19,079 --> 00:54:22,039
The trouble is that we do have
some disparate reports that that don't seem to

696
00:54:22,119 --> 00:54:25,119
line up with that. So what
do you do with those, especially since

697
00:54:25,119 --> 00:54:29,559
the witnesses, you know, are
adamant that what they saw was was something

698
00:54:29,599 --> 00:54:34,320
completely different. It would be very
strange for a UFO to be flying underneath

699
00:54:34,320 --> 00:54:38,199
the descent of a rocket booster.
But uh, you know, it's,

700
00:54:38,320 --> 00:54:44,679
it's, it's It adds up to
a very fascinating exercise in in UFO research

701
00:54:44,719 --> 00:54:49,159
and investigation. So you know,
Martin did a fantastic job, and you

702
00:54:49,199 --> 00:54:52,639
know, Ranks is one of the
best investigative pieces I've ever seen. In

703
00:54:52,679 --> 00:54:57,760
fact, he produced a report on
this which was given to the Yukon government,

704
00:54:58,760 --> 00:55:05,119
which tabled it in their one of
their sessions and discussed it. Uh,

705
00:55:05,880 --> 00:55:08,320
you know, the the Yukon Ministry
I think of the Environment discussed it

706
00:55:08,599 --> 00:55:13,599
within council. So you know,
here we have a government that took an

707
00:55:13,599 --> 00:55:16,920
interest in a UFO case that happened
in Canada in nineteen ninety six. That

708
00:55:17,079 --> 00:55:22,559
is that is amazing. I can't
think of any other case where someone basically

709
00:55:22,599 --> 00:55:28,559
had boots on the ground like as
they say, and actually knocking on doors

710
00:55:28,639 --> 00:55:31,519
or whatever. This guy did gass
Steve's corner stores bars as you say,

711
00:55:32,199 --> 00:55:38,320
and actually took on a case like
that before having a primary witness. I

712
00:55:38,360 --> 00:55:44,719
mean, that's a leap of faith
right there, and it sounds very effective

713
00:55:45,119 --> 00:55:49,039
and especial. We dont all these
different you know people saying the same thing.

714
00:55:49,079 --> 00:55:52,519
Doesn't sound like a rocket booster,
no, but you know, we

715
00:55:52,039 --> 00:55:57,239
it's something that's that's not in uphology
anymore. It used to be in the

716
00:55:57,239 --> 00:56:01,400
fifties and sixties it was actually common
practice is to do that where you know,

717
00:56:01,440 --> 00:56:06,280
you suspected that if a UFO was
seen, you know, point a

718
00:56:06,480 --> 00:56:08,960
over here, then somebody over there, you know, probably did see it

719
00:56:09,000 --> 00:56:12,920
as well, and just a matter
of talking to people until you found one.

720
00:56:14,039 --> 00:56:20,280
And in Canada in nineteen seventy five
seventy six, uh, you know,

721
00:56:20,280 --> 00:56:24,519
I went off into the countryside knocking
on doors trying to find people who

722
00:56:24,519 --> 00:56:28,960
had seen some UFOs during a wave
that was going on at that time.

723
00:56:29,039 --> 00:56:31,119
So it's it used to be quite
common. You don't hear about it as

724
00:56:31,239 --> 00:56:36,320
much anymore, but it still is, you know, a really good practice

725
00:56:36,719 --> 00:56:43,679
for UFO investigators now Besides shag Harbor, are there a number of cases that

726
00:56:43,840 --> 00:56:49,760
involve the police department in one way
or another other Royal Canadian or the Mounties

727
00:56:49,880 --> 00:56:52,599
wounded police RCMP, Yeah, oh
yeah. In fact, there's there's quite

728
00:56:52,599 --> 00:56:59,199
a few cases that involved the RCMP
as well as the Royal Canadian Air Force

729
00:56:59,480 --> 00:57:06,559
as well mentioned Shake Harbor, there
was a case in um uh Let's treat

730
00:57:06,760 --> 00:57:14,679
uh Uh Rivers Manitoba in uh in
the nineteen sixties, and more recently we've

731
00:57:14,719 --> 00:57:21,519
had reports where Mounties were witnesses to
some uh some cases in the nineteen seventies

732
00:57:21,519 --> 00:57:24,480
and into the nineteen eighties, and
we do have copies of those reports.

733
00:57:24,960 --> 00:57:30,400
Um It's It's also true that in
in nineteen sixty seven, if you can

734
00:57:30,440 --> 00:57:37,639
believe nineteen sixty seven, the Royal
Canadian Mounted Police helped investigate the first crop

735
00:57:37,719 --> 00:57:42,920
circles uh. They weren't they didn't
start in Britain, They've actually started elsewhere.

736
00:57:43,239 --> 00:57:49,360
And they're actually photographs of these uh
these impressions in the in the fields

737
00:57:50,159 --> 00:57:53,000
that were produced by the RCMP,
and the RCMP crime Lab also took a

738
00:57:53,000 --> 00:57:58,920
look at it. So you know, the Canadian military and police have a

739
00:57:59,000 --> 00:58:02,239
long history of looking into this.
In fact, part of what I have

740
00:58:02,320 --> 00:58:07,440
in my collection are the reports from
the Row Canadian Mounted Police, who were

741
00:58:07,559 --> 00:58:14,599
charged with in investigating UFOs up until
about nineteen ninety five, and so a

742
00:58:14,679 --> 00:58:19,159
lot of the cases we get our
courtesy of the Row Canadian Mounted Police,

743
00:58:19,679 --> 00:58:27,039
because what happened is that the Canadian
what was Canadian Space Agency was then called

744
00:58:27,039 --> 00:58:31,920
the National Research Council Hertzberg Institute of
Astrophysics, and they were interested in collecting

745
00:58:31,960 --> 00:58:37,119
meteorites, and well, you need
to have reports of meteors and shooting stars

746
00:58:37,119 --> 00:58:42,280
and things falling through the sky in
order to find meteorites. So the scientists

747
00:58:42,280 --> 00:58:45,760
decided, well, there's all these
reports of UFOs that are probably meteors.

748
00:58:45,039 --> 00:58:50,559
Let's get the RCMP to talk to
the witnesses and we'll find the meteorites that

749
00:58:50,639 --> 00:58:52,920
actually did happen. It did work
in a few instances, but most of

750
00:58:52,920 --> 00:58:57,000
the reports they got, of course, we're not meteors. They were reports

751
00:58:57,000 --> 00:59:02,039
of disc shape objects were certainly not
meteors, and those fell into what was

752
00:59:02,079 --> 00:59:08,039
called the non meteor Excitings file,
which was collected in Ottawa in the Herzberg

753
00:59:08,119 --> 00:59:14,280
Institute of Astrophysics. I visited with
the office a number of times and those

754
00:59:14,320 --> 00:59:17,559
are the reports that made it into
the National Canadian Archives. So you know,

755
00:59:17,679 --> 00:59:22,039
police have had a good history of
being involved in this. Wow.

756
00:59:22,159 --> 00:59:28,840
Very interesting. Before we get to
Falcon the Falcon Lake incident, there's one

757
00:59:29,039 --> 00:59:32,960
other case. It just came to
mind with me that there was a UM.

758
00:59:34,000 --> 00:59:38,920
There was a mounted one of the
count Royal Canadian Mountias. Yeah.

759
00:59:39,280 --> 00:59:46,079
Um, and this was I believe
a single UM officer that saw this cigar

760
00:59:46,159 --> 00:59:52,519
shape thing at a distance and used
his binoculars and uh now he's uh,

761
00:59:52,840 --> 00:59:57,800
I think he's called like the raccoon
whisperer. Yeah, you know what I'm

762
00:59:57,840 --> 01:00:01,199
talking about. Yeah, that was
claire Ville and Newfoundland. And oh boy,

763
01:00:01,239 --> 01:00:05,920
I'm trying to think when that was
now, I think back in the

764
01:00:06,039 --> 01:00:08,400
sixties as well, or maybe seventies. Anyways, Yeah, he saw this

765
01:00:08,440 --> 01:00:15,800
object, watched it progress over over
a Newfoundland and was very adamant. You

766
01:00:15,800 --> 01:00:19,360
know, this is where you know, he says he if you don't believe

767
01:00:19,400 --> 01:00:22,039
me, you don't believe me,
but you know, I'll stake my badge

768
01:00:22,039 --> 01:00:27,360
on the line. And he did. And um. He has since retired

769
01:00:27,599 --> 01:00:32,199
and actually has YouTube videos now where
he is surrounded by raccoons. He has

770
01:00:32,280 --> 01:00:36,760
this this thing where raccoons, uh, you know, want to want to

771
01:00:36,760 --> 01:00:40,639
come and spend time with him.
So from from aliens to raccoons, it's

772
01:00:40,639 --> 01:00:45,760
not that much of a stretchase of
and uh uh, I know he went

773
01:00:46,280 --> 01:00:50,320
there was a lot of stress in
his life because of that situation or something.

774
01:00:50,320 --> 01:00:52,400
I remember something about that if he
took a lot of ribbing. He

775
01:00:52,440 --> 01:00:58,480
took a lot of ribbing from from
from his colleagues and from the general publicum.

776
01:00:58,800 --> 01:01:00,760
But as I said, he he
insisted, if you don't believe me,

777
01:01:00,760 --> 01:01:04,679
you don't believe me, but this
is this is what happened. Yeah,

778
01:01:04,760 --> 01:01:08,639
yeah, And I think it was
a cigar shape but very very interesting

779
01:01:09,480 --> 01:01:15,119
case as well. All right,
so let's get into the Falcon Lake and

780
01:01:15,760 --> 01:01:20,000
I want to hear all about that
incident, for we do have a lot

781
01:01:20,039 --> 01:01:22,719
of new listeners and a lot of
people are not familiar at all with it.

782
01:01:22,119 --> 01:01:27,440
So can you go over that if
you would please? Sure? And

783
01:01:27,920 --> 01:01:30,840
you know, as an intro to
this, I have to say, if

784
01:01:30,840 --> 01:01:35,400
you don't know the Falcon Lake UFO
case, you're missing something because this is

785
01:01:35,400 --> 01:01:40,360
a case that has everything you would
possibly want in a UFO case happened a

786
01:01:40,400 --> 01:01:44,519
while ago, nineteen sixty seven.
As a matter of fact, we had

787
01:01:44,559 --> 01:01:51,239
we celebrated the fiftieth anniversary at the
site with the witness's son, and there's

788
01:01:51,239 --> 01:01:54,400
been some commemorative events. The Canadian
government recognizes this as a as a real

789
01:01:54,440 --> 01:02:00,039
event. Wow. Back back in
May of nineteen sixty seven, and a

790
01:02:00,199 --> 01:02:06,440
fellow names stefanmi Hollick was doing some
amateur rock hounding, some prospecting. He

791
01:02:06,480 --> 01:02:09,280
was, you know, his background
actually is in the military, as an

792
01:02:09,280 --> 01:02:15,199
immigrant from eastern Europe. And in
May of nineteen sixty seven, you know,

793
01:02:15,320 --> 01:02:19,519
had driven out or sorry, I
had taken a bus out to this

794
01:02:19,559 --> 01:02:22,800
little town called Falcon Lake, which
is about an hour north of the American

795
01:02:22,840 --> 01:02:27,719
border, in about an hour east
of the city of Winnipeg. And he

796
01:02:27,840 --> 01:02:30,599
traveled there because he, you know, had staked some claims and he was

797
01:02:30,639 --> 01:02:36,320
curious about the rock formations out there. And he entered the bush about six

798
01:02:36,320 --> 01:02:39,719
o'clock in the morning and packed himself
a lunch. It's very rugged territory,

799
01:02:42,000 --> 01:02:45,840
very very rocky, you know,
very very few people in that particular area

800
01:02:45,840 --> 01:02:52,440
of the Canadian Great Canadian Shield.
And was poking around and then around lunchtime,

801
01:02:52,679 --> 01:02:55,559
literally around noon. He had stopped
for lunch, had set up his

802
01:02:55,920 --> 01:03:01,239
pack on a on a large rock, and there was a He was on

803
01:03:01,320 --> 01:03:09,079
a ridge and below the ridge was
a pond which some geese were swimming.

804
01:03:09,159 --> 01:03:12,960
All of a sudden, the geese
took flight, and he was concerned that

805
01:03:12,960 --> 01:03:15,119
there was a bear around, because
that's there are bears around there, and

806
01:03:15,119 --> 01:03:21,960
he thought maybe there was one nearby. He looked around, couldn't see any

807
01:03:22,039 --> 01:03:27,559
bears. But in the sky there
were two what he described as cigar shapes

808
01:03:28,320 --> 01:03:31,159
that were very very bright white in
color. They seemed to be descending,

809
01:03:31,239 --> 01:03:37,679
one state fairly high. The other
one seemed to descend and land not far

810
01:03:37,960 --> 01:03:40,679
from where he was. He crouched
down behind a bush and this object,

811
01:03:40,679 --> 01:03:44,519
which turned out not to be cigar
shaped at all, but a disc shaped,

812
01:03:44,519 --> 01:03:47,760
a Hollywood style flying saucer. It
was changing color from white to yellow,

813
01:03:47,800 --> 01:03:51,920
to orange to red as it cooled
down. Eventually he was the color

814
01:03:51,960 --> 01:03:55,920
of burnished steel, as he described
it, and it descended. It was

815
01:03:55,960 --> 01:04:00,119
thirty five feet in diameter, twelve
feet high, dome on top, lights

816
01:04:00,199 --> 01:04:05,440
for coming from the top, and
this thing was sitting about a one hundred

817
01:04:05,440 --> 01:04:11,760
and fifty yards away. He was
watching it for some time, and because

818
01:04:11,800 --> 01:04:15,159
of his military background, he was
convinced that this was some sort of physical

819
01:04:15,760 --> 01:04:19,280
vehicle, a test aircraft of some
sort. This was just at the beginning

820
01:04:19,320 --> 01:04:24,440
of the Apollo program, and he
thought maybe this was a moon lander that

821
01:04:24,440 --> 01:04:29,760
that got off course as it was
being tested by the Americans. Washed for

822
01:04:29,880 --> 01:04:33,639
some time, suddenly a door opened
in the side of this thing, a

823
01:04:33,760 --> 01:04:38,440
very very small door, but through
the door he could see some bright lights

824
01:04:38,599 --> 01:04:42,719
and he could hear some very high
pitched voices, and he was convinced that

825
01:04:42,719 --> 01:04:45,639
this was an American craft then,
so he stood up, walked towards it,

826
01:04:45,639 --> 01:04:48,880
and shouted, you can just imagine, come on, Yankee boys,

827
01:04:49,239 --> 01:04:54,400
I'll give you a hand fixing your
broken down flying machine. Because he figured

828
01:04:54,440 --> 01:05:00,039
they were stopped for repairs. Well, he's walking towards the voices stopped and

829
01:05:00,039 --> 01:05:04,199
he realized, oh, maybe not
American. So he happened to be multilingual,

830
01:05:04,320 --> 01:05:09,920
so he called out in other languages, including Russian. By this time,

831
01:05:09,960 --> 01:05:13,840
he was already touching up the side
of this touched the side of this

832
01:05:13,880 --> 01:05:17,360
thing with his rubberized glove, which
he had on to protect his hands from

833
01:05:17,559 --> 01:05:21,599
the sharp rocks. His rubberized glove
melted because the side of this thing was

834
01:05:23,000 --> 01:05:28,239
too hot. The door shut,
the entire thing rotated so that there was

835
01:05:28,280 --> 01:05:31,960
sort of an exhaust vent right in
front of him, and blast of hot

836
01:05:32,000 --> 01:05:35,239
gas came out, hit him in
the chest, knocked him down, set

837
01:05:35,280 --> 01:05:40,079
his clothes on fire, set fire
to pine needles and leaves that were around

838
01:05:40,280 --> 01:05:45,440
the thing took off and at the
last he saw of it, but he

839
01:05:45,719 --> 01:05:48,719
tore off his shirt, stamped out
the shirt as best he could, and

840
01:05:48,760 --> 01:05:53,360
he was very dizzy. He was
vomiting. Whatever the chemical was in this

841
01:05:53,559 --> 01:05:57,880
gas was making him very very ill. He eventually made it back to civilization,

842
01:05:58,000 --> 01:06:00,960
was taken to a hospital where he
was examined and found to have first

843
01:06:00,960 --> 01:06:08,079
and second degree burns. In addition, on his lower chest he had red

844
01:06:08,119 --> 01:06:12,079
marks and a pattern that corresponded,
according to him, to this exhaust vent,

845
01:06:12,159 --> 01:06:16,880
the holes on this exhaust vent.
And then the story came out and

846
01:06:17,760 --> 01:06:23,679
the case was investigated by the Royal
Canadian Mounted Police, the Royal Canadian Air

847
01:06:23,679 --> 01:06:27,320
Force. It was even part of
Blue Book. It's actually in the Condon

848
01:06:27,440 --> 01:06:32,800
Report, and we have remarkably all
the doc Well, I'm not going to

849
01:06:32,880 --> 01:06:35,760
say all. There's probably a few
others, but we have three hundred pages

850
01:06:35,760 --> 01:06:42,280
of documents from these various agencies,
the transcripts of the interviews that the Royal

851
01:06:42,280 --> 01:06:46,719
Canadian Mounted Police did with him,
the records that show that they visited with

852
01:06:46,760 --> 01:06:54,400
the hotel owner of the hotel he
state and overnight, the housekeeping staff.

853
01:06:55,159 --> 01:06:58,639
They checked with the bar to find
out whether he's drinking himself silly the night

854
01:06:58,679 --> 01:07:06,320
before. There's documents between members of
parliament, the Canadian politicians talking about this

855
01:07:06,360 --> 01:07:12,760
because it was quite a big thing, and then we have the opportunity of

856
01:07:12,920 --> 01:07:16,519
speaking or when I opened the case
again in the nineteen eighties, I knew

857
01:07:16,519 --> 01:07:21,760
the family because it turns out that
the witness's son lived literally two blocks away

858
01:07:21,760 --> 01:07:27,840
from me, and I used to
hang out with them and ride bicycles when

859
01:07:27,880 --> 01:07:30,880
I was a kid and things like
that. And so after my investigations of

860
01:07:31,000 --> 01:07:33,320
some of the cases in Manitoba,
I thought, well, I want to

861
01:07:33,320 --> 01:07:38,000
know more about this case. Ended
up talking with the family who had actually

862
01:07:38,519 --> 01:07:44,519
turned away media because they were sick
and tired of being made fun of and

863
01:07:44,559 --> 01:07:47,239
the people who are always showing up
and not really telling the story properly.

864
01:07:48,039 --> 01:07:53,840
So A few years ago, the
witness's son and myself wrote a book called

865
01:07:54,280 --> 01:07:59,000
titled When They Appeared, giving the
story of not only the witness's words,

866
01:07:59,000 --> 01:08:02,199
because there was a pamphlet which was
produced describing what happened in his words,

867
01:08:02,480 --> 01:08:08,199
but also from the Sun's words,
my investigation and then the later fallout,

868
01:08:08,440 --> 01:08:12,679
plus the givement dots and photographs.
Now I'm not done yet. There was

869
01:08:12,719 --> 01:08:16,520
actually radioactive material found at the site
by the Royal Canadian Air Force and the

870
01:08:16,640 --> 01:08:23,079
RCMP. They had actually considered closing
off the area to the public because of

871
01:08:23,079 --> 01:08:29,600
a perceived danger, and then a
year later radioactive material was found in the

872
01:08:29,640 --> 01:08:34,560
crack in a rock over which this
object had hovered. That material was found

873
01:08:34,560 --> 01:08:41,840
to be almost pure silver that was
radioactive, and it was tested by a

874
01:08:42,000 --> 01:08:46,399
number of institutes, the University of
Chicago, University of Illinois as well University

875
01:08:46,439 --> 01:08:51,039
of Arizona. The Lorenzs had it
from for APRO for a while. It's

876
01:08:51,039 --> 01:08:59,680
been tested by the Royal Canadian Mounted
Police themselves, and very recently we have

877
01:09:00,079 --> 01:09:04,560
we still have one of these pieces
which we tested at a material's institute to

878
01:09:04,800 --> 01:09:13,000
verify that this was in fact of
pure silver. So we have testimony from

879
01:09:13,000 --> 01:09:15,760
the witness who only passed away just
before the turn of the millennium, so

880
01:09:15,800 --> 01:09:21,399
I spoke with him at length.
The witnesses family. We have the documents

881
01:09:21,479 --> 01:09:30,439
from the official investigators. We have
the Condon's notes, actually not Condon himself,

882
01:09:30,439 --> 01:09:35,279
at one of his investigator's notes on
the case, Michael's swords notes on

883
01:09:35,319 --> 01:09:40,920
the case. Plus we have the
physical evidence. We have the medical records.

884
01:09:41,239 --> 01:09:45,520
He actually went down to the Mayo
Clinic to be tested down there,

885
01:09:45,640 --> 01:09:50,159
not only physiologically but psychologically. In
fact, we have the evaluation by the

886
01:09:50,199 --> 01:09:54,960
Mayo Clinic psychiatrist who said, this
is not somebody who makes up stories.

887
01:09:55,439 --> 01:10:00,039
Can you think of any other case
that has all this evidence? Probably not

888
01:10:00,439 --> 01:10:06,319
even Roswell. Wow, amazing.
Now, last time I talked about this

889
01:10:06,720 --> 01:10:12,800
incident on the show, someone wrote
me and said, oh, you don't

890
01:10:12,840 --> 01:10:16,520
know that that was a hoax?
Has there been like a rumor that's going

891
01:10:16,600 --> 01:10:23,279
around there? And if so,
what is there? You know, what's

892
01:10:23,319 --> 01:10:28,119
their standby of what they're considering a
hoax? Well, it's quite interesting because

893
01:10:28,239 --> 01:10:32,439
the Roe Canadian Mounted Police and the
Roe Canadian Air Force both issued reports that

894
01:10:32,520 --> 01:10:40,600
it unequivocally stated that they labeled this
case unexplained, and you don't get that

895
01:10:40,840 --> 01:10:44,840
too often. And the only other
possible explanation, I mean, there's two

896
01:10:44,880 --> 01:10:47,840
possible explanations. Either it happened as
he said, or it's completely made up.

897
01:10:48,800 --> 01:10:51,640
But I guess you have to figure
out if he made it up,

898
01:10:54,159 --> 01:10:59,880
how would you manufacture some of this
material getting the radiation at the site.

899
01:11:00,720 --> 01:11:03,439
This was actually melted silver that was
found in a rock, in a crack

900
01:11:03,479 --> 01:11:09,840
in the rock. And you can
actually get to the site now. In

901
01:11:09,880 --> 01:11:15,880
fact, you have to take a
horseback ride to get there, because you

902
01:11:15,920 --> 01:11:17,760
could walk in, but it would
take you quite some time across swamps.

903
01:11:18,199 --> 01:11:21,479
But the best way in right now
is through a forty five to an hour

904
01:11:23,159 --> 01:11:28,760
horseback ride over some pretty rugged territory, not for the not for the amateur

905
01:11:28,800 --> 01:11:32,000
horseback rider, by the way.
Um and uh, so you you know,

906
01:11:32,039 --> 01:11:35,359
to manufacture this, And then you
have to consider the fact that the

907
01:11:35,520 --> 01:11:41,039
RCMP and r CEF took the matter
very seriously and didn't charge him with mischief.

908
01:11:42,640 --> 01:11:45,000
The story was very very consistent.
He did not change his story.

909
01:11:45,520 --> 01:11:49,840
Um. Uh you know all the
years that followed, Um, I know

910
01:11:49,880 --> 01:11:55,039
that some hardcore debunkers and skeptics,
you know, just dismiss it out of

911
01:11:55,039 --> 01:12:00,079
hand because I mean, why not, um, but uh, but you

912
01:12:00,119 --> 01:12:03,840
know, there's a lot of evidence
here in this particular case, and a

913
01:12:03,880 --> 01:12:08,720
lot of the things that were said
about him were simply untrue. For example,

914
01:12:09,079 --> 01:12:15,800
the bartender at the hotel told the
Royal Canadian Air Force that the witness

915
01:12:15,039 --> 01:12:19,039
had, you know, bought many
many drinks when he showed up at eight

916
01:12:19,159 --> 01:12:23,359
thirty in the evening and he drank
until a closing time or something like that.

917
01:12:23,920 --> 01:12:29,479
Well it turns out that that's completely
impossible because the bus that brought him

918
01:12:29,520 --> 01:12:33,000
to that town to where the hotel
was didn't get intil nine thirty. And

919
01:12:34,640 --> 01:12:38,640
the house cleaning staff said, well, there never went any bottles in his

920
01:12:38,760 --> 01:12:43,880
room, and you know, there
simply wasn't any way that he was drunk.

921
01:12:44,039 --> 01:12:45,359
And I guess the other thing is, if he, you know,

922
01:12:45,439 --> 01:12:49,039
really was drunk, many people saw
him leave the hotel, many people saw

923
01:12:49,079 --> 01:12:54,399
him coming and going. You know, the story itself doesn't make any sense.

924
01:12:54,439 --> 01:12:58,399
And being drunk alone wouldn't allow you
know, some of this evidence to

925
01:12:58,439 --> 01:13:01,239
be procured and make up such an
credible story. You know, it's that

926
01:13:01,359 --> 01:13:06,520
that self doesn't um, you know, explain anything. Um, it's a

927
01:13:06,600 --> 01:13:12,199
very fascinating case. And um,
you know, in the book and even

928
01:13:12,760 --> 01:13:18,399
the witness himself never talked in terms
of aliens. Um, he never talked

929
01:13:18,399 --> 01:13:23,680
in terms of little green guys.
He thought it was a physical space landing

930
01:13:23,720 --> 01:13:29,600
craft produced by Americans or Russians or
something. Um. And in our book,

931
01:13:29,680 --> 01:13:32,600
you know, we simply state we
leave this case open. It you

932
01:13:32,640 --> 01:13:36,920
know, simply dismissing it as a
hoax is insufficient. But we also don't

933
01:13:36,960 --> 01:13:41,720
have any proof that this was actually, you know, an alien spacecraft.

934
01:13:41,960 --> 01:13:45,960
It's a fascinating case, of fascinating
case study. And one of the reasons

935
01:13:45,960 --> 01:13:48,560
we told the story in this form
was to to get the information out and

936
01:13:49,359 --> 01:13:54,800
all of this material, um,
you know, the documents, the government

937
01:13:54,840 --> 01:14:00,000
documents from the RCMP and the RCAF, plus our own investigation files, plus

938
01:14:00,079 --> 01:14:05,039
letters on file from UFOE investigators themselves, the doctor's reports and so forth.

939
01:14:05,600 --> 01:14:12,119
We've I've turned that over already to
the University of Manitoba Archives and it's in

940
01:14:12,119 --> 01:14:16,760
the process of digitizing that as well, so that that'll be available for researchers

941
01:14:16,800 --> 01:14:21,119
to take a look at as well. So I don't know it's it's it's

942
01:14:21,159 --> 01:14:27,039
a great case and has all the
elements you want on a UFO case.

943
01:14:27,119 --> 01:14:30,680
But if that's not enough, hey, that's that's fine. Right now,

944
01:14:30,680 --> 01:14:34,199
I'm putting up on YouTube for those
people over there. You can see the

945
01:14:35,199 --> 01:14:43,760
grid marks that this whatever it was
left looks very very painful. And and

946
01:14:44,000 --> 01:14:48,880
what type of health issues did he
have because of this? Did he have?

947
01:14:49,039 --> 01:14:53,520
Well? Well, he did.
In fact, he was very very

948
01:14:53,600 --> 01:14:58,319
nauseous, lost a lot of weight, couldn't hold food down. His son

949
01:14:58,439 --> 01:15:02,840
said that there was this odor in
his bedroom. Because he eventually was released

950
01:15:02,840 --> 01:15:06,560
from the hospital and he was sent
home, there was this odor that he

951
01:15:06,720 --> 01:15:14,039
said it was like rotten eggs sulfur
that was emanating from his body itself.

952
01:15:15,680 --> 01:15:21,800
He was given blood tests, there
were you know, there's no question that

953
01:15:21,840 --> 01:15:26,439
he had these marks. In fact, this grid mark thing he described as

954
01:15:26,479 --> 01:15:30,760
his buttons because they healed, but
you could actually feel the scar tissue under

955
01:15:30,760 --> 01:15:36,479
his chest and stomach right just under
the skin. He had a series of

956
01:15:36,479 --> 01:15:41,399
fainting spells. In fact, the
Mayo Clinic suggested there was some sort of

957
01:15:42,880 --> 01:15:46,079
talksin that was in his system that
needed to eventually work its way out.

958
01:15:47,279 --> 01:15:51,880
And you know, over the course
of many years he had relapses his allergic

959
01:15:51,920 --> 01:15:57,399
reaction, his body swelled up,
passed out, and so forth. He

960
01:15:57,439 --> 01:16:00,479
was an otherwise healthy man and had
never been sick a day his life.

961
01:16:00,039 --> 01:16:04,720
And by the people that interviewed him
and talked to him, you know,

962
01:16:04,800 --> 01:16:09,840
after this happened, Um, what
was his You said that he never thought

963
01:16:09,920 --> 01:16:14,920
it was never mentioned alien or whatever. But did he go his entire wife,

964
01:16:15,199 --> 01:16:16,880
you know, trying to figure out
what this thing was or did he

965
01:16:16,920 --> 01:16:20,439
just trying to move on from that? Do you know? No, he

966
01:16:20,800 --> 01:16:27,800
didn't fact try to move on.
Uh uh. You know, graudastically cut

967
01:16:27,840 --> 01:16:33,279
down on his his time going into
the bush. Um he again, you

968
01:16:33,279 --> 01:16:36,000
know, like so many people said, you know, if people don't believe

969
01:16:36,039 --> 01:16:39,680
me, they don't believe me.
But this is this is what happened to

970
01:16:39,680 --> 01:16:44,680
me. In fact, it took
a great deal of arm twisting to convince

971
01:16:45,239 --> 01:16:49,119
him and his wife and his son
to go on Unsolved Mysteries. NBC flew

972
01:16:49,720 --> 01:16:56,199
myself and them down to their set
to do the recreation for Unsolved Mysteries,

973
01:16:56,199 --> 01:17:00,720
the original version with with Robert Stack. Yeah, and I think it was

974
01:17:00,760 --> 01:17:08,640
redone and re edited. Um there
and they really didn't do very many more

975
01:17:08,760 --> 01:17:12,960
interviews after that. I know it
was done on A and E's unexplained UM

976
01:17:12,960 --> 01:17:16,720
and a few others uh, and
which we participated in, but they really

977
01:17:16,760 --> 01:17:21,000
really pulled back and didn't want to
talk about things very much after that because

978
01:17:21,600 --> 01:17:27,960
UM. In our book, uh, the witness, his son described how

979
01:17:27,960 --> 01:17:30,600
he was bullied at school. You
know, you're our dads alienship, you

980
01:17:30,640 --> 01:17:34,000
know that sort of stuff. Um, and he was treated very very badly.

981
01:17:34,239 --> 01:17:38,640
UM. The family uh uh you
know had a lot more to lose

982
01:17:39,079 --> 01:17:43,439
than gain from telling the story.
It did not gain any any money financially,

983
01:17:44,199 --> 01:17:49,920
um. And uh. You know, it was truly truly an amazing

984
01:17:49,960 --> 01:17:56,920
experience to and to to uh you
know, to to read and what the

985
01:17:56,960 --> 01:18:00,199
Sun wrote in our book and to
hear him talk about it himself. In

986
01:18:00,239 --> 01:18:02,720
fact, there's a very powerful moment
and I think I have it on one

987
01:18:02,760 --> 01:18:08,119
of my YouTube channels where the Sun
had never gone out to the site in

988
01:18:08,159 --> 01:18:13,600
all the fifty years since this happened, and he went out with us by

989
01:18:13,680 --> 01:18:19,600
horseback for the fiftieth anniversary, and
one of the things he had was a

990
01:18:19,640 --> 01:18:23,720
copy of a map that his father
had drawn of the lay of the land

991
01:18:23,760 --> 01:18:29,560
where this thing happened, and he
had that copy of the map with him

992
01:18:29,560 --> 01:18:32,439
when we went to the site,
and when we were standing at the location

993
01:18:32,520 --> 01:18:41,239
where this happened, he was almost
brought to tears because the map corresponded completely

994
01:18:41,279 --> 01:18:45,479
with what his father said it looked
like at that time, and he just

995
01:18:45,840 --> 01:18:48,319
he looked into the camera. He
said, he was telling the truth.

996
01:18:48,920 --> 01:18:54,319
This actually happened, and it happened
right here. Wow, it's a very

997
01:18:54,439 --> 01:19:00,039
very profound Yeah. Yeah, Now
you mentioned that this saying rotating, It

998
01:19:00,319 --> 01:19:04,000
was probably almost like an exhaust.
Was there any type of like loud noise

999
01:19:04,600 --> 01:19:10,800
or any do you talk about that
at all? There was a rush of

1000
01:19:10,840 --> 01:19:15,039
wind um Yeah, yeah, no
rocket exhaust or anything like that. In

1001
01:19:15,079 --> 01:19:17,920
fact, he had heard while this
thing was landed. He described the sound

1002
01:19:17,920 --> 01:19:23,760
as if a bellows was expelling and
bringing in air while it was on the

1003
01:19:23,760 --> 01:19:26,640
ground. So those are the types
of things. And he said, there's

1004
01:19:26,680 --> 01:19:30,239
a smell like a burning electrical motor. All these little tiny details that that

1005
01:19:30,359 --> 01:19:36,319
add up to a really profound experience
and a detail. It was some of

1006
01:19:36,359 --> 01:19:41,680
details that you know, really add
up to something I suggested really was something

1007
01:19:41,720 --> 01:19:45,479
physical there. Now, what about
landing gear or impressions or anything like that.

1008
01:19:45,640 --> 01:19:50,159
Was there anyone that ever discussed He
actually never saw any. In fact,

1009
01:19:50,199 --> 01:19:55,119
there's some discussion about whether it was
actually landed or just hovering above.

1010
01:19:55,840 --> 01:20:02,760
Where this took place was on a
pretty solid rock rock base, and so

1011
01:20:03,319 --> 01:20:09,000
you know, there wouldn't be anything
any any landing pad that could have made

1012
01:20:09,000 --> 01:20:13,560
a dent or anything like that.
Right, did he after this incident happened?

1013
01:20:13,560 --> 01:20:16,520
Did he still prospect like he was
doing at that case or was this

1014
01:20:16,880 --> 01:20:19,720
something that not as much? Not
as much? In fact, his wife

1015
01:20:19,760 --> 01:20:25,319
told him, you're done. Basically, you're done. Yeah, especially with

1016
01:20:25,359 --> 01:20:30,039
the health reasons. That's especially yeah, yeah, yeah, And I'm sorry

1017
01:20:30,039 --> 01:20:35,079
you may have already mentioned this.
But was there any radioactivity? Well,

1018
01:20:35,079 --> 01:20:39,800
there was radio activity found at the
site by the RCF and UH and the

1019
01:20:39,920 --> 01:20:47,439
RCMPUM and then a year later these
radioactive metal pieces were found at the site.

1020
01:20:47,920 --> 01:20:53,800
UM. The radioactivity that was found
originally may have been due to radon,

1021
01:20:54,359 --> 01:20:59,640
may have been due to some natural
uranium pitch plan that's one possibility.

1022
01:21:00,520 --> 01:21:04,399
But there was definitely a radioactivity above
normal background that was found at the site.

1023
01:21:05,279 --> 01:21:11,600
And then but the radioactivity that was
found on this silver was definitely anomalous,

1024
01:21:11,720 --> 01:21:15,720
and uh, you know that's a
that's still a matter of debate.

1025
01:21:16,399 --> 01:21:20,199
Would you consider this case? You
said it has basically all the bells and

1026
01:21:20,239 --> 01:21:27,279
whistles. Is this like Canada's Roswell
in a way. I think it's definitely

1027
01:21:27,279 --> 01:21:31,000
Canada's roswell, But I would say
better than Roswell because the United States government

1028
01:21:31,039 --> 01:21:35,000
doesn't acknowledge that Roswell happened, whereas
the Canadian government. You know, does

1029
01:21:35,800 --> 01:21:41,560
we know where this happened, to
a precise location. We GPS marked it

1030
01:21:41,720 --> 01:21:46,560
very recently. We actually have the
physical evidence in our hands. In fact,

1031
01:21:46,600 --> 01:21:49,560
I could reach over and touch one
of them right now. Can you

1032
01:21:49,560 --> 01:21:55,239
put something in front of the camera. I can move away for a second.

1033
01:21:55,439 --> 01:21:58,319
Is that okay? Fine? Sure? Yeah, okay, yeah,

1034
01:21:58,319 --> 01:22:00,039
you know vamp just a second here? Yeah, yeah, no problem.

1035
01:22:00,720 --> 01:22:06,199
So my guest, Chris Rikkowski,
he is off to get some evidence.

1036
01:22:06,199 --> 01:22:11,640
We're going to see this actually on
YouTube. UM, so if you're listening

1037
01:22:11,680 --> 01:22:15,159
to this as a podcast, UM, I can't tell you exactly how many

1038
01:22:15,399 --> 01:22:18,079
many minutes A good, good,
good job vamping. Okay, So I

1039
01:22:18,119 --> 01:22:24,399
have it. I have this here, um, and it's in a glass

1040
01:22:24,880 --> 01:22:30,000
case because it is still slightly radioactive. I'm just taking it out right now.

1041
01:22:30,960 --> 01:22:34,760
Yeah, yeah, and it's double
lined. I'm just taking it out

1042
01:22:35,439 --> 01:22:45,479
and here we go. Oh,
I think I saw this online. This

1043
01:22:45,880 --> 01:22:51,840
is one. This is radioactive.
It's almost pure silver. It's actually quite

1044
01:22:51,880 --> 01:23:00,279
heavy. Um. And it's been
tested by a number of laboratories and um

1045
01:23:00,199 --> 01:23:04,560
uh it's definitely subject pure silver.
Yeah, subject to a lot of heat.

1046
01:23:05,239 --> 01:23:08,680
You can definitely tell that. We've
had it. We put it on

1047
01:23:08,720 --> 01:23:13,000
electron microscope last year. As a
matter of fact. Wow, So there's

1048
01:23:13,039 --> 01:23:17,720
nothing anomalous about it, is It
is just the element of silver basically.

1049
01:23:17,800 --> 01:23:21,279
Yes, in fact is very well, that's what's anomal anomalous. Actually it's

1050
01:23:21,399 --> 01:23:27,399
almost pure silver. Yeah, and
that in itself is a is a little

1051
01:23:27,439 --> 01:23:30,560
bit strange unless it comes directly from
the center of a vein. Um.

1052
01:23:31,279 --> 01:23:34,079
You know, well, this is
this is more commercial grade silver. It's

1053
01:23:34,079 --> 01:23:41,159
actually very very pure silver. Veins
wouldn't be you know, sterling silvers,

1054
01:23:41,199 --> 01:23:45,279
you know anywhere from uh you know
a nine point two i mean ninety two

1055
01:23:45,279 --> 01:23:49,000
point five percent of strolling silver fans
higher than that. This, Yeah,

1056
01:23:49,039 --> 01:23:53,199
this is a you know, the
lab reports verify that this is this is

1057
01:23:53,239 --> 01:23:58,399
definitely a high quality silver. Amazing, And it was just it was basically

1058
01:23:58,439 --> 01:24:01,199
just sitting there on location. Well
that's sitting it was. They had to

1059
01:24:01,239 --> 01:24:05,520
dig it out of the and I
guess you know this. You know,

1060
01:24:06,439 --> 01:24:12,079
if you assume, I want to
believe that this was left behind by a

1061
01:24:12,159 --> 01:24:15,840
saucer of some sort, you have
to wonder, you know, what would

1062
01:24:15,880 --> 01:24:21,319
saucers drip silver or something? I
mean that in itself doesn't make any sense.

1063
01:24:21,880 --> 01:24:28,520
In fact, what's fascinated about this
case? It really makes you have

1064
01:24:28,600 --> 01:24:32,760
more questions than answers and uh as
I say, it's more of a case

1065
01:24:32,800 --> 01:24:38,720
study of a case. And for
me, that's that's part of the challenge,

1066
01:24:38,760 --> 01:24:43,640
to try and understand what really happened. Yes, yeah, so really

1067
01:24:43,720 --> 01:24:49,439
amazing. Now there was another you're
talking about the government actually, you know,

1068
01:24:49,479 --> 01:24:55,359
admitting that you have a saucer.
They did also in shag Harbor.

1069
01:24:55,399 --> 01:25:00,880
Am I getting that right? Yeah? There are government documents regarding shank Harbor.

1070
01:25:00,960 --> 01:25:03,640
I think there's only five or something
like that, whereas with Falcon Lake

1071
01:25:03,680 --> 01:25:08,720
we have three or four hundred something
like that. But the five really are

1072
01:25:08,760 --> 01:25:13,720
quite interesting. They show that there's
something related happened there was some discussion at

1073
01:25:13,720 --> 01:25:17,079
a high level and the Canadian Navy
was encouraged to go in and try and

1074
01:25:17,119 --> 01:25:24,479
recover whatever it was that was under
the water. And although there are many,

1075
01:25:24,479 --> 01:25:29,079
many fascinating reports like that, and
I'm as a matter of fact,

1076
01:25:29,079 --> 01:25:33,079
one of my next projects is going
into some forensic ufology, if you can

1077
01:25:33,119 --> 01:25:38,760
believe that, trying to go back
and look at some cold cases and the

1078
01:25:38,800 --> 01:25:44,000
government records themselves excellent. Well,
we are open for calls if anyone would

1079
01:25:44,000 --> 01:25:47,279
like to call in, and that
phone number if you're over at KGr A

1080
01:25:47,479 --> 01:25:54,479
radio, that phone number is eight
five five four seven two five four eighty

1081
01:25:54,560 --> 01:25:58,680
three. That numbers up on the
screen if you're on YouTube, So we

1082
01:25:58,800 --> 01:26:02,039
do have a call screener. Race
will be standing by um, so you're

1083
01:26:02,079 --> 01:26:06,840
welcome to call in. The line
is open. Um. This is uh,

1084
01:26:06,960 --> 01:26:10,920
this is really a great talk.
I'm you know, it's one of

1085
01:26:12,800 --> 01:26:16,399
it's it's it's been a really really
fun show for me so far. And

1086
01:26:16,680 --> 01:26:21,600
let's talk about some of the other
incidents that you find have a lot of

1087
01:26:21,680 --> 01:26:27,319
merit, because from what I understand, tell me if I'm wrong, but

1088
01:26:28,359 --> 01:26:31,840
I have heard over the years that
you're very, very cautious and you're a

1089
01:26:31,840 --> 01:26:36,359
good skeptic. You're not a debunker, but you're a skeptic and um and

1090
01:26:36,359 --> 01:26:41,439
and you really like to present,
you know, things that are solidum.

1091
01:26:42,000 --> 01:26:45,960
If you're going to get involved at
all. Well, yeah, in fact,

1092
01:26:46,119 --> 01:26:50,439
hardcore believers are convinced that I'm a
skeptic and a debunker, whereas debunkers

1093
01:26:50,439 --> 01:26:55,640
and the real skeptics. I mean, uh, like Schaefer and phil play,

1094
01:26:55,720 --> 01:26:58,039
she'll play is nothing good to say
about me. Let me just say

1095
01:26:58,079 --> 01:27:01,560
that I'm too much of a belief
ever. Um. So I'm sitting on

1096
01:27:01,600 --> 01:27:04,319
the fence, and you know,
those pointy picket fences are really tough to

1097
01:27:04,319 --> 01:27:10,279
sit on. They're they're really painful. But I mean, I I have

1098
01:27:10,319 --> 01:27:14,039
the you know, an astronomy background, so I know the likelihood of star

1099
01:27:14,199 --> 01:27:18,479
stellar evolution and other planets and life
elsewhere. Um um. I have a

1100
01:27:18,520 --> 01:27:21,600
good knowledge of what's in the sky, and most of the reports that I

1101
01:27:21,640 --> 01:27:25,880
get of Venus these days, I
can just say that the people you're watching

1102
01:27:25,960 --> 01:27:29,039
Venus, I know it's very bright
right now, but that that's what it

1103
01:27:29,159 --> 01:27:33,000
is. Um um. But at
the same time, you know, I

1104
01:27:33,000 --> 01:27:39,680
I like to say that, don't
believe the believers necessarily, but be skeptical

1105
01:27:39,720 --> 01:27:44,239
of skeptics. And the other thing
I often say in my lectures is that

1106
01:27:45,720 --> 01:27:54,399
um uh, you know, if
the UFO phenomenon um is as a physical

1107
01:27:54,439 --> 01:28:02,039
component um or perhaps a psychological or
a sociological opponent in any of those categories,

1108
01:28:02,199 --> 01:28:05,880
it's worth a study and investigation.
And uh, you know, there

1109
01:28:05,880 --> 01:28:13,319
are so many masters thess and PhD
thess being done on UFOs. Uh right

1110
01:28:13,359 --> 01:28:15,560
now. I mean over the years, there's been hundreds and hundreds and hundreds

1111
01:28:15,560 --> 01:28:19,199
and you know, just over the
past I don't know, six months,

1112
01:28:19,239 --> 01:28:26,359
I've had a half dozen doctoral and
master's thesis students from all across North America,

1113
01:28:27,640 --> 01:28:30,279
you know, asking for help and
doing some of the research into the

1114
01:28:30,279 --> 01:28:35,039
their their UFO topics. So there's
serious scientific research that's being done out there.

1115
01:28:36,560 --> 01:28:43,000
But at the same time, we're
bombarded all the time with pop ufology.

1116
01:28:43,319 --> 01:28:49,000
Uh, you know of you know, mysterious drones and videos that appear

1117
01:28:49,079 --> 01:28:56,239
on YouTube with some release, you
know, doubt, dubious providence and things

1118
01:28:56,279 --> 01:29:00,000
like that. Plus a lot of
things that are being talked about at conferences

1119
01:29:00,079 --> 01:29:03,760
is now about you know, how
aliens fly use consciousness and esp to pilot

1120
01:29:03,800 --> 01:29:08,680
their their planes. And you know, we've had seventy six varieties of aliens

1121
01:29:08,680 --> 01:29:11,520
from this planet and this planet,
and some are reptilian and some are at

1122
01:29:11,520 --> 01:29:15,000
second and whatever the reality is,
we don't know. We simply don't have

1123
01:29:15,119 --> 01:29:19,560
good information on that. And that
sheer speculation, which is fun. But

1124
01:29:19,640 --> 01:29:23,640
at the same time, is there
some meat down there? Because one of

1125
01:29:23,640 --> 01:29:27,479
the things I do is I liaise
with a scientific community in order to talk

1126
01:29:27,520 --> 01:29:32,279
about UFOs with the scientists, and
you'd be surprised how how many are willing

1127
01:29:32,279 --> 01:29:35,760
to talk. As long as you
don't wear tinfoil hats and have pyramids on

1128
01:29:35,800 --> 01:29:42,560
your heads or or put their name
in print. Maybe some of them are

1129
01:29:43,479 --> 01:29:50,119
are okay with that. Now,
back in twenty thirteen, the Kepler basically

1130
01:29:53,239 --> 01:30:00,279
as far as the earthlike possibilities of
planets within just our Milky Way be as

1131
01:30:00,359 --> 01:30:03,199
high as forty billion. I like
to ask up people that know a little

1132
01:30:03,199 --> 01:30:09,159
bit about astronomy, that have interest
in this topic, this question, just

1133
01:30:09,239 --> 01:30:14,520
to hear what you would say about
it, And that is, why would

1134
01:30:14,520 --> 01:30:18,760
we be so special if there is
a possibility of that many earthlike planets with

1135
01:30:18,880 --> 01:30:23,880
life? Just say, intelligent life. If there's a fraction of them that

1136
01:30:23,920 --> 01:30:29,079
could have intelligent life on it,
that's still billions, And so why would

1137
01:30:29,079 --> 01:30:32,840
we be so popular that would be
visited, especially as much as we're being

1138
01:30:32,920 --> 01:30:38,359
visited. Just your opinion. Well, you know the Drake equation which which

1139
01:30:38,399 --> 01:30:45,399
calculates some upper and lower bounds for
the number of habitat planets with intelligent life.

1140
01:30:46,000 --> 01:30:50,560
It's really an approximation, and you
know it's true there will be you

1141
01:30:50,600 --> 01:30:53,600
know, given the size of the
galaxy, there will be you know,

1142
01:30:54,319 --> 01:30:59,840
many many planets out there that are
earthlike and supporting life and possibly have intelligent

1143
01:30:59,840 --> 01:31:02,479
life, but not all that many. And the other problem is that the

1144
01:31:02,479 --> 01:31:06,319
distance between them is going to be
very very very large. I mean even

1145
01:31:06,119 --> 01:31:13,279
the nearest star, uh you know
proximates Censure I is you know, three

1146
01:31:13,319 --> 01:31:18,119
and a half light years away at
its closest, and so you know that

1147
01:31:18,199 --> 01:31:21,800
that's that's pretty decent, and you
know, James Cameron is telling us all

1148
01:31:21,840 --> 01:31:29,359
about it in his movies that are
upcoming, and it's possible that there could

1149
01:31:29,359 --> 01:31:31,520
be a moon like that around one
of the planets, around another Censure I

1150
01:31:31,640 --> 01:31:36,399
system m but you know, it's
really tough to travel between the stars and

1151
01:31:36,439 --> 01:31:41,279
why would we be special, Well, probably because of water. Water actually

1152
01:31:41,359 --> 01:31:45,000
is very very rare UM and carbon
based life, even though you know it's

1153
01:31:45,000 --> 01:31:48,840
possible to have silicon based life,
carbon based life seems to be the easiest

1154
01:31:49,079 --> 01:31:55,159
to produce UM. And for that
you need liquid water in the right temperature

1155
01:31:55,279 --> 01:32:00,439
zone and so forth. So you
know, it's the fact that you need

1156
01:32:00,479 --> 01:32:05,399
water in an atmosphere there's not too
reducing, uh, you know, suggest

1157
01:32:05,399 --> 01:32:11,279
that we are fairly unique. UM. And you know, there's certainly a

1158
01:32:11,319 --> 01:32:15,720
possibility, I know Seth Shottak has
talked about this that will probably discover life

1159
01:32:15,760 --> 01:32:19,720
or have verification of life elsewhere in
the universe probably within five or ten years.

1160
01:32:20,119 --> 01:32:25,560
Yes, that's so, that's so, yeah, But that though those

1161
01:32:25,600 --> 01:32:29,239
are going to be like bacteria or
fungus or something like that, we're not

1162
01:32:29,319 --> 01:32:33,960
talking advanced intelligent life UM. And
you know, those are going to be

1163
01:32:34,039 --> 01:32:36,880
very very rare. And in fact, you know, you may have heard

1164
01:32:36,920 --> 01:32:43,159
the analogy that you know, even
to produce the DNA molecule is so radically

1165
01:32:43,199 --> 01:32:47,319
difficult and to require so many steps
that it's the equivalent of saying that,

1166
01:32:47,840 --> 01:32:54,960
UM, a tornado came through a
junkyard and left behind a fully formed jeep

1167
01:32:54,960 --> 01:33:00,359
wrangler. I mean, uh,
you know that's that's as unlikely as you

1168
01:33:00,359 --> 01:33:02,720
know, as the odds have it, and yet we're here, so we

1169
01:33:02,800 --> 01:33:08,760
know that it's possible. Um,
it's to make sure part of it.

1170
01:33:08,880 --> 01:33:11,479
Sorry, go ahead, I just
say it just makes you really, you

1171
01:33:11,520 --> 01:33:15,680
know, appreciate the likelihood and the
numbers involved, and that that it may

1172
01:33:16,039 --> 01:33:20,720
also make you think, well,
maybe life didn't originate here, maybe the

1173
01:33:20,960 --> 01:33:28,800
pan spermia you know, um theory
as maybe life was started elsewhere, but

1174
01:33:29,119 --> 01:33:30,520
that first spark of life, what
the heck was it? And how did

1175
01:33:30,479 --> 01:33:34,159
it happen? You know that that
that type of thing. It's it's it's

1176
01:33:34,159 --> 01:33:39,159
all fascinating, and there's so many
ways that we could not be here,

1177
01:33:39,319 --> 01:33:41,800
Like, for instance, if we
didn't have a moon, perhaps we wouldn't

1178
01:33:41,840 --> 01:33:45,439
be here. We didn't have extinction
events, most likely would we wouldn't be

1179
01:33:45,479 --> 01:33:48,840
here. You know, there's just
h it's just an amazing thing how it

1180
01:33:48,880 --> 01:33:53,159
all fell into place. And yeah, yeah, Neil de grass Tyson has

1181
01:33:53,199 --> 01:33:57,279
a has a great series on you
know the Universe is trying to kill you?

1182
01:33:57,600 --> 01:34:01,640
Yeah, because it's just impossible to
to you know to fathom exactly how

1183
01:34:01,680 --> 01:34:06,319
we could have got here given all
the odds stacked against us. Exactly Again,

1184
01:34:06,359 --> 01:34:11,199
the lines open. I thought we'd
get some calls tonight how we us

1185
01:34:11,199 --> 01:34:15,640
should do eight five five four seven
two five four eight three. They probably

1186
01:34:15,680 --> 01:34:18,079
just love what you're saying and want
to have you keep talking. That's maybe

1187
01:34:18,079 --> 01:34:23,520
what it is. We have a
screener standing by waiting to take your calls

1188
01:34:24,039 --> 01:34:27,479
and UH, and that is available. UM, well, let me tell

1189
01:34:27,520 --> 01:34:30,640
you that I am working on I've
mentioned I've done the Canadian UFO Survey for

1190
01:34:30,760 --> 01:34:35,560
quite a number of years. I'm
currently working on the twenty nineteen version of

1191
01:34:35,560 --> 01:34:39,640
the Canadian UFO Survey. We're always
a year out because it takes some time

1192
01:34:39,640 --> 01:34:45,439
to gather the data. UM.
I have assistants who are helping enter the

1193
01:34:45,119 --> 01:34:50,279
information to a database. They look
at every UFO report that's that's filed or

1194
01:34:50,319 --> 01:34:59,399
given to organizations, and the reports
come from UH, you know, organizations

1195
01:34:59,439 --> 01:35:02,760
like move on On, like UFO
Info. There's a number of Quebec organizations

1196
01:35:02,840 --> 01:35:09,560
from UFO BC, but also from
Transport Canada, the equivalent of the FAA,

1197
01:35:10,239 --> 01:35:15,039
from other official sources and reports that
come directly to US. So oh,

1198
01:35:15,039 --> 01:35:16,760
and certainly we're going through social media
now for cases, A lot of

1199
01:35:16,800 --> 01:35:21,760
things are reported simply on YouTube with
somebody's video, and so we were looking

1200
01:35:21,760 --> 01:35:27,600
at all these sources to get a
true picture, not just one organization's analysis,

1201
01:35:27,600 --> 01:35:30,760
but a true picture of all the
organizations that are accepting UFO reports.

1202
01:35:30,960 --> 01:35:34,199
New Fork. You know, Peter
Davenport's group is part of this as well.

1203
01:35:35,600 --> 01:35:40,199
And you know, as I mentioned, over the course of the time,

1204
01:35:40,279 --> 01:35:45,640
we've noticed somewhere around a thousand cases. I've heard and seen some reports

1205
01:35:45,680 --> 01:35:48,680
saying that the numbers of UFO reports
are skyrocketing and going up because of all

1206
01:35:48,680 --> 01:35:55,159
the interest in the subject. We're
not seeing that reflected in the actual data.

1207
01:35:55,239 --> 01:35:59,079
I can tell you that right now, our twenty nineteen report will not

1208
01:35:59,159 --> 01:36:02,680
be available until probably at least another
month or two. There's a lot of

1209
01:36:02,680 --> 01:36:08,720
work that has to be done in
terms of the analysis, but we're not

1210
01:36:08,880 --> 01:36:14,439
seeing big increases in UFO reports.
In fact, we've noticed this significant dip

1211
01:36:14,520 --> 01:36:17,399
this year. It'll be we're trying
to figure out exactly how how much that

1212
01:36:17,479 --> 01:36:21,800
dip is going to be, but
it's a significant decrease from from years past.

1213
01:36:23,199 --> 01:36:27,840
We've had a very good plateau of
high levels of reports. The UFO

1214
01:36:27,920 --> 01:36:33,159
reports have generally increased with time up
until a peak around twenty twelve, I

1215
01:36:33,199 --> 01:36:42,279
think, and then it's sort of
stayed fairly high throughout the teens and as

1216
01:36:42,359 --> 01:36:46,920
we reached nineteen twenty, we've noticed
a decrease in the number of reports that

1217
01:36:46,960 --> 01:36:51,920
are being filed right across the board, through all organizations. So why this

1218
01:36:53,000 --> 01:36:57,119
is so, We're not sure,
but we won't have the actual data for

1219
01:36:57,159 --> 01:37:01,399
another few months. And you know, I would say, despite what you

1220
01:37:01,520 --> 01:37:05,279
hear, we just don't have the
information yet. Wow. I do want

1221
01:37:05,279 --> 01:37:10,239
to apologize to the people that are
trying to call in. Evidently there is

1222
01:37:10,279 --> 01:37:14,640
an issue. The phone will not
ring. So race, if you are

1223
01:37:14,800 --> 01:37:18,279
listening, my phone just went dead. I try to try to connect with

1224
01:37:18,279 --> 01:37:23,840
your race. But anyway, maybe
the government, the government doesn't want us.

1225
01:37:23,960 --> 01:37:27,960
That's exactly what it is. So
I will in this particular case,

1226
01:37:28,239 --> 01:37:32,399
if people want to call in,
I'm going to change the number up there.

1227
01:37:32,600 --> 01:37:36,960
You may call in until this gets
fixed. That is, you may

1228
01:37:38,000 --> 01:37:43,640
call in at six O three nine
six seven four O three zero and I'll

1229
01:37:43,640 --> 01:37:47,760
put that number up that's six H
three nine six seven four O three zero,

1230
01:37:48,279 --> 01:37:53,840
and I will take your call for
that smartin's personal cell phone. Use

1231
01:37:53,880 --> 01:37:57,680
it as much as you want.
You can't believe it's not, but you

1232
01:37:57,680 --> 01:38:01,279
can't believe how many people do call
when the show is not when the show's

1233
01:38:01,319 --> 01:38:06,000
not live, constantly call. But
that is. I will thank you for

1234
01:38:06,119 --> 01:38:10,920
mentioning that, so I remember to
say that that is a show only call,

1235
01:38:11,720 --> 01:38:14,720
and so we will take the call. I'll take that call over here

1236
01:38:14,720 --> 01:38:17,399
at Skype. And again that's six
h three nine six seven four zero three

1237
01:38:17,479 --> 01:38:23,239
zero. I'm sure we'll get the
other phone line all straightened out before the

1238
01:38:23,960 --> 01:38:29,880
next show, unfortunately not now.
So again that number is up on the

1239
01:38:29,880 --> 01:38:32,680
screen, six h three nine six
seven four h three zero. Go ahead

1240
01:38:32,680 --> 01:38:38,560
and call in if you'd like,
and we should see some calls come in.

1241
01:38:40,319 --> 01:38:43,079
And we don't have a whole lot
of time. We have looks like

1242
01:38:43,199 --> 01:38:47,279
about seven minutes or so left,
so we can only take one call if

1243
01:38:47,279 --> 01:38:55,199
you'd like to call in. And
so two thousand and nineteen, twenty eighteen,

1244
01:38:55,279 --> 01:39:00,479
twenty seventeen, I actually I either
somehow I get your wait a minute,

1245
01:39:00,560 --> 01:39:05,800
the old phone numbers working. Someone's
calling in an old number, and

1246
01:39:05,800 --> 01:39:11,960
and that number just U. That
call just ended, so looks like that

1247
01:39:12,000 --> 01:39:14,960
call that line might be working.
If someone like to call over there again,

1248
01:39:15,279 --> 01:39:23,279
I'll pop that number back. And
I think I think the button in

1249
01:39:23,279 --> 01:39:25,960
front of you is for the Iowa
Caucus. Just want to push that one

1250
01:39:26,000 --> 01:39:30,399
there. Now, we have someone
calling in on my personal line. So

1251
01:39:30,560 --> 01:39:33,760
here we are. We'll get through
this. All right, caller, your

1252
01:39:33,760 --> 01:39:41,119
first name, where you're calling from? Caller, you're there. Let's try

1253
01:39:41,159 --> 01:39:45,119
this one. Caller, where are
you calling from? And your first name?

1254
01:39:46,520 --> 01:39:50,479
It just keeps hanging up, but
this Sorry, we wouldn't have a

1255
01:39:50,479 --> 01:40:00,239
show without technical difficulties. And it
looks like we have someone over. We

1256
01:40:00,319 --> 01:40:04,880
have someone ready to go. We
have Vince Vince from Ohio. Welcome to

1257
01:40:04,880 --> 01:40:13,880
the show. Vince. Can you
hear me? Vince? Vince is vanished?

1258
01:40:14,399 --> 01:40:18,479
Vince? Are you there? Race? We can't. We cannot hear

1259
01:40:18,520 --> 01:40:25,800
the We cannot hear the caller.
All right, you know what, I'm

1260
01:40:25,840 --> 01:40:30,319
just gonna skip callson. I have
one more person trying to call here.

1261
01:40:30,600 --> 01:40:33,119
This is Martin. I've got him
on. I can hear him, he

1262
01:40:33,840 --> 01:40:38,520
can hear you. Okay, well
we're not hearing him over here. All

1263
01:40:38,600 --> 01:40:43,880
right, caller, are you there. Yeah, speak up if you would

1264
01:40:45,760 --> 01:40:49,119
here. Can you hear anyone?
It sounds like you're on a soup can

1265
01:40:49,159 --> 01:40:56,800
on a string, So we're gonna
have to pass on the call. Thanks

1266
01:40:56,800 --> 01:41:04,399
for trying it, and uh,
okay, we don't want to end the

1267
01:41:04,399 --> 01:41:10,680
show like this caller. Welcome to
the show. Your first name where you're

1268
01:41:10,680 --> 01:41:16,439
calling from? All right, guess
what, no more calls. I'm shutting

1269
01:41:16,439 --> 01:41:21,960
the phone down. Yeah, alright, I'm sorry. Um, you know,

1270
01:41:23,439 --> 01:41:26,319
people can always check me out on
my blog. I think you have

1271
01:41:26,359 --> 01:41:32,680
a link there and the sight let
me see, okay, so yeah,

1272
01:41:32,760 --> 01:41:38,000
go ahead, give your blog over
there and people can contact Chris that way.

1273
01:41:38,039 --> 01:41:40,840
I'll just try this call one more
time. Call it your first name

1274
01:41:40,880 --> 01:41:44,720
where you're calling from. No,
no more calls, please, no more

1275
01:41:44,720 --> 01:41:48,479
calls. Thank you all for trying
to get through. And uh, I'm

1276
01:41:48,479 --> 01:41:56,520
sorry it just didn't work out tonight. I'm also the admit for UFO updates,

1277
01:41:56,840 --> 01:42:00,000
uh the UFO discussion group in Facebook. So if you want I know

1278
01:42:00,079 --> 01:42:02,880
that one. That's a good one. Yeah, yeah, yeah, thank

1279
01:42:02,880 --> 01:42:08,399
you. Yeah, I admit.
I was asked to take it over following

1280
01:42:08,399 --> 01:42:11,680
the passing of Earl Bruce Napp,
who ran it for many years and people

1281
01:42:12,359 --> 01:42:16,000
from no, I didn't he passed. Yeah, um, so I'm actually

1282
01:42:16,000 --> 01:42:20,840
the admin for that, and so
join UFO updates and join the discussion.

1283
01:42:20,880 --> 01:42:25,760
And there's a lot of interesting people
on their you know, trying to keep

1284
01:42:25,760 --> 01:42:29,880
abreast of UFO news and UFO cases. And in Canada there's one called UFOs

1285
01:42:30,079 --> 01:42:35,680
over Canada. So you know,
the social media is an excellent way to

1286
01:42:35,720 --> 01:42:39,520
keep in touch with what's going on. And you can even follow me at

1287
01:42:39,560 --> 01:42:45,000
you followed you research on Twitter.
So um, there's so much information out

1288
01:42:45,039 --> 01:42:48,319
there. But I would just urge
people to uh, you know, to

1289
01:42:48,399 --> 01:42:53,119
have an open mind and because it's
very important to have an open mind,

1290
01:42:54,199 --> 01:42:57,520
except not so open that your brains
fall out. And you know, there's

1291
01:42:57,520 --> 01:43:00,159
a lot of gray matter on the
sidework that you have to step in through

1292
01:43:00,199 --> 01:43:05,439
these so try and try and stay
level and but you know, there's so

1293
01:43:05,560 --> 01:43:11,359
much cool stuff out there. Just
keep an eye out. Yeah. So

1294
01:43:11,399 --> 01:43:13,800
I'm just I mentioned this again.
I'm sorry, we're not going to take

1295
01:43:13,800 --> 01:43:15,840
anymore. We're not going to try
to take calls. Thank you so much

1296
01:43:15,840 --> 01:43:19,199
for trying to call though, we
really do appreciate it, and sorry you

1297
01:43:19,199 --> 01:43:23,840
couldn't get through tonight. So I
would like to ask this, because you

1298
01:43:23,880 --> 01:43:29,600
have been at this so long,
do you ever get the burnout with you

1299
01:43:29,640 --> 01:43:32,000
know, you've had it, This
is just too much and you know you

1300
01:43:32,039 --> 01:43:34,640
want to move on and just not
look back. Do you ever get that

1301
01:43:35,199 --> 01:43:40,000
you seem to have a great attitude. Well, you know, because I

1302
01:43:40,039 --> 01:43:43,720
don't have as much invested in it. I'm not trying to prove that aliens

1303
01:43:43,720 --> 01:43:46,640
are here. Like so many people, I'm fascinated with the subject. I

1304
01:43:47,079 --> 01:43:55,960
find it interesting from a number of
standpoints, and I continually, you know,

1305
01:43:56,039 --> 01:44:00,359
talk to people about cases. We
have the unique opportunity to examine each

1306
01:44:00,399 --> 01:44:04,319
and every report that is filed in
Canada, and we end up following up

1307
01:44:04,319 --> 01:44:09,600
and talking to very many people.
We we have, um, you know,

1308
01:44:09,640 --> 01:44:13,359
the the advantage of looking at all
the cases we you know this is

1309
01:44:13,439 --> 01:44:17,680
this is beyond what you hear on
TV and on Project Bluebook and all those

1310
01:44:17,720 --> 01:44:21,359
shows that are are mostly fiction.
These are the actual cases. This is

1311
01:44:21,399 --> 01:44:27,199
what people really are reporting. And
we share those every year on the Canadian

1312
01:44:27,279 --> 01:44:30,680
UFO Survey UM and we talk about
them on Facebook. And you know,

1313
01:44:31,039 --> 01:44:34,640
I do get I don't do a
lot of conferences compared to what a lot

1314
01:44:34,680 --> 01:44:39,920
of the pop ones do. But
I do go to some and I don't

1315
01:44:39,960 --> 01:44:43,840
do all that many podcasts actually,
so yes, I know it, but

1316
01:44:43,920 --> 01:44:47,560
maybe you actually have to have me
back and just do phone calls. Well,

1317
01:44:47,680 --> 01:44:50,880
um, I know it. I
actually started bugging you a few years

1318
01:44:50,880 --> 01:44:56,159
ago because you were on once way
back and then and then we met at

1319
01:44:56,159 --> 01:44:59,760
the conference, and uhum, I
would love to have you back on again

1320
01:45:00,119 --> 01:45:04,199
because this is the type of talking
I really enjoy the most, and it's

1321
01:45:04,239 --> 01:45:09,479
been extremely pleasurable for me. Oh, it's a great to drink. You'd

1322
01:45:09,520 --> 01:45:12,800
be on. Thanks, Yeah,
all right, everyone, So anyway,

1323
01:45:13,199 --> 01:45:15,560
good night Chris, and thank thanks
so much. And I'm sorry we couldn't

1324
01:45:15,560 --> 01:45:19,640
take the calls and we'll talk to
you soon, okay, thanks, good

1325
01:45:19,720 --> 01:45:24,239
night, good night, all right
everyone. So that is it for the

1326
01:45:24,319 --> 01:45:28,760
show tonight, and next week we
will back with we will be back with

1327
01:45:28,880 --> 01:45:35,119
Chuck Zukowski. And I'm glad I
didn't get the names confused tonight between Chris

1328
01:45:35,600 --> 01:45:41,159
Rutkowski and Chuck Zukowski. So he'll
be back next week with him. And

1329
01:45:41,479 --> 01:45:45,279
thanks so much for listening to the
show. Anyone can support it, can

1330
01:45:45,279 --> 01:45:48,039
go over to Patreon or over to
our website. Don't forget to check out

1331
01:45:48,079 --> 01:45:51,920
the blogs over there, and I
do want to thank people that help behind

1332
01:45:51,920 --> 01:45:59,119
the scenes as well. And remember
everyone to keep your eyes to this guy.