Hello, and welcome to the show. I'm Martin Willisher, host and we
have i think an exciting show tonight, and it's mostly to do with Canada,
but not all Canada. And you'll understand that in just one second here
and a few minutes. I have a friend of the show and personal friend,
Jordan Bonaparte from Nova Scotia. He'll be joining us to talk about UFO
news and things in Canada and all that. Then we have renowned UFO investigator.
Then that's Chris Ritkowski. He's coming on at twenty five minutes into the
show. I want to thank everyone that supports the show, and I also
want to thank every listener. I don't do that enough. There are all
different types of ways to listen. You can catch us live on YouTube or
live on KGr A Radio. Plus there's a lot of other platforms as our
podcast of course, which you can get on your media player. And every
Thursday night we're over at the Dark Matter Digital Network. I'm not sure exactly
what time it is on Thursday, but there is a schedule, so check
that out over there. At some point and a few days ago, the
anchor to the show, the anchor show that is on the network and that's
Art Bell's old show, Midnight in the Desert. They got a new host
and his name is Tim Wiseberg. Nice guy, and so you can check
out the shows. Anyone can actually watch or listen to the shows. I
should say over there at the dark Matter Digital Network. Midnight in the Desert
it's every night, and that is on Eastern time. It's midnight to the
wee hours in the morning or a Pacific time it's nine pm. So check
that over at the dark Matter Digital Network. And for right now, all
that being said, I would like to introduce that get I mean that new
host, Tim. Welcome to the show, surprise guests. Yeah, thanks
for having me. Yeah, it's nice to be able to talk about stuff
this early. And I have to wait till midnight. Yes you are you
know you're not in Canada. I said this was a Canada show, but
you know you're close enough. You're in Massachusetts. And yeah, yeah,
so you have to you have to stay up late to do the show.
That would I don't know if I could do that, to be honest with
you, those hours are and what time do you I guess you have to
reset your whole life. But you get to bed at what four in the
morning or something like that. Yeah, I try to go to bed.
I leave my day job around you know a little bit after that, go
home, take a nap, wake up, do the show, then go
and take like another like three or four hour nap, get up, go
to work. You know. Oh my goodness, so far, and it's
working out so far. But we're only in a week. Two talk to
me in a couple of months. Yeah, I've been a subscriber all the
way back when our at Bell first came back. I think it was twenty
fifteen or something like that. But our show, I do believe is the
longest running show because of Keith over there. He helped me go live for
the very first time, and I've been live ever since, and I think
that was twenty thirteen. We've been running on that network and we get quite
a few listeners there on Thursday at night, even though it's a career run.
So it's it's it's well done, and you have Michelle helping you getting
guests, and I know you have a good week coming up. But before
we get into that, I want to quickly say that I just listened this
evening before the show on the episode you did about the coronavirus, and I
know it has absolutely nothing to do with UFOs and not really paranormal, but
there is so much hype about it. And the guest you had diala what
was her name, Dalia Schweitzer. Yeah, she was very good, and
you know, you kind of put a lot of things to bed. For
instance, a lot more people die from the flu than it just does not
make any news, and there's so much hype about this. You know,
people are wearing masks everywhere. I went into no I'm up in Maine and
I went into physical therapy today and at the office they said, have you
been exposed to anyone with the coronavirus? I mean, it's really it's really
overblown, And so I was glad you did an episode about that. Yeah,
I mean, I guess abundance of caution is the phrase to use.
But in actuality, it's the people who are dying from this. It's not
healthy average people. It's people that are at the extremes, very young people,
very old people. And always when that happens, you tend to the
hype and the horror stories that come out because the media likes a sensationalized thing.
So we tried to kind of peel back some of that and get into
not only the truth of this virus, but just the way that they cover
viruses in general. Yeah. Yeah, so you are doing shows on all
different types of subjects like that has always been covered there, starting with the
Art Bell's shows. But can you give our listener here a little bit of
your background and how you were able to fill Art Bell's seat. Well,
I don't know about that, but we started doing my original radio show,
which is now in its fourteen years, Spooky South Coast. We started that
in two thousand and six, and that was something where, you know,
we didn't expect to get a big audience. We thought it'd just be a
local, regional show. But then we started podcasting and that made all the
difference in the world. And then when the Dark Amount of Digital Network started
up, Keith reached out and wanted to carry the show. He said that
he and Art felt like it was something that kind of fit the mold of
what Art was doing, and so we've been on there ever since then.
And then when Dave Schrader took over Midnight in the Desert and he needed to
have some filling hosts, I was one of the people lucky enough to get
that opportunity, and then I kind of just became, I guess, you
know, the Jay Leno to his Johnny Carson, where I was usually the
guy that they called first, and more often than not I could do it.
And then it just made sense with his schedule now, with Holder Files
going into a season two and everything, excuse me, everything on his plate,
it just made sense for me to kind of step into the big chair.
Awesome. Well, if you ever need a fill in, I'd be
glad to do that. Hey, we'll keep you on the lift. All
right. I did promise Dave would I would use him first though. Oh
absolutely, Yeah, Dave is awesome. Dave does such a great show.
But he is such a busy guy. Plus doesn't he have like ten kids
or something like that, and he has a lot of children something like that,
and now as kids are having kids. Oh, I mean, he's
just got a dog, So good luck with that. Yeah, no,
no, he's he does. He does a wonderful job. But anyway,
I'm really glad that you were able to come on and just introduce yourself.
I wish you all the luck. I hope it goes really well for you
over there and just enjoy yourself because you're going to have some great guests as
always there. All right, so it's all about just have some fun late
at night. That's what it's all about. That's right. Yeah, Now
it's time for you to go get a nap if you can, I will
do that. Thank you so much for having me. All right, you
take care, all right? All right, our next guests we have Jordan
and Jordan is there is Dada. Hey Jordan, how are you? Yeah?
Yeah, thanks for being on. Hey, what happened to your microphone
set up? You're using your iPhone stuff here? Oh and it's the kids
are upstairs screaming and if I have a good enough mike, you're gonna hear
gosh knows what. So I figured this is like kind of the security against
that I got it. You're hiding in the basement or something like that.
Yeah, so you are up in the Halifax Nova, Scotia. Not we
met over at Shag Harbor. How many years I don't even want to think
how many years ago that was? Now, Yeah, I don't like thinking
of time passing. That was like that was two or three years ago,
although it feels like two months ago if that. Yeah, but it's a
yeah, it was a time goes by fast. I've been to some of
the other festivals there since then. They Shag Harbor got their own coins since
you were last there, that's right. And are they doing that event every
year now? Yeah? And I met with Chris Stiles, who's the Upologists
kind of take on a lot of the planning. He claims that this year
is going to be bigger than bigger and better than ever. So it's still
a while away. Another I guess ten months from now or eight months from
now, so I'm sure you'll hear about it. Hopefully he'll find a way
to get you up there again. Well, I'll tell you I did something
I will never ever do again. As I drove from Maine from my house
all the way up around the arm of Nova Scotia, you know, stopped
in worse Stand Freedman Lift h and then just drove all the way around.
I think it was two days of driving or something ridiculous when I could have
just taken the ferry and just popped right over. Yeah, exactly. And
then you lost your credit card along, that's right. That was a lot
of fun and dog bit me, my own dog bit me. You're walking
around the UFO fest of Al asking for handouts. Yeah, yeah, no,
I had that. I had the little basket and yeah the sunglass,
I cried, but yeah, yeah, So hey, thanks for joining us.
And I were on for I don't know, another fifteen minutes or so,
and I asked you if you could look up a little bit of UFO
news, what's going on? So what did you find? Well? I
got a few things, some that lean a bit more towards the controversial and
some that lead more towards the topic of disclosure. So I think maybe we'll
start with that. And there's been an announcement that the Ministry of Defense and
the UK has announced that they're going to release basically what they're what they're referring
to as their secret UFO files. And it sounds like anyone who's done a
lot of kind of research in the Canadian UFO history. Basically, the Canadian
government has a section of their website where they store all of the UFO files
or any reports related to UFOs, basically wide open for public consumption. I
can't think of the web address, but if you search like Canada Government UFO,
you'll find the division of the Canadian government's website that shares that it sounds
like the Ministry of Defense in the UK is going to do something similar,
which is basically creating a portal on the government website to you know, release
I guess whatever they're able to, but by the sounds of what they've said
so far, it's it's going to be an abundance of documents spanning nineteen fifty
to two thousand and nine. So I think, you know, the people
who are watching the skies are going to have a lot of watching the computer
screen and flipping through PDFs for a while. But it's I just find like,
what I like about something like this is, for one, as it
gets the topic and the news because it gives something really interesting to talk about.
But also it just kind of adds to the acceptance of the phenomenon to
hear the government, even in a tongue in cheek way, tackling the topic
and releasing the data. So I think it's great news and fascinating stuff that's
right, and just another thing moving things along as it seems. Huh yeah.
And it's you know, that's been like since I started kind of following
the UFO world, the idea of disclosure, and the government finally admitting,
you know, what's been going on in the secret they've been hiding. It's
it's just been, you know, slowly, it's been inching along, but
I feel like in the last year or two things have really been moving the
you know, the American government has said a whole lot of stuff that you
know, X files kind of predicted they would, I guess, but it's
the American government has said a lot. The Canadian government has never been that
secretive about it and their interest in it. But I think what else is
interesting is lately is you're seeing a lot of private researchers really opening the doors
to their work. So of course, when Stanton Friedman passed Rest in Peace,
Stanton, a wealth of UFO documents were released. And I don't know
if you gave it to a university, but I believe the plan is they're
going to organize it and allow access to it. And I don't know if
many kind of UFO researchers of yester years have done things like that, have
really like publicly shared their life's work basically, And I think that's just another
step in uncovering what the heck is going on up there. Interesting. I
know, I think somebody did that with photographs, and I don't want to
get the name wrong, so I'm not going to bring it up. But
I think they gave or like legacy of big photograph collection over two. I
think Open Minds may have had had purchased that or something. I'm not really
sure exactly what happened, but yeah, what I like with like, say,
what Stanton's done is it's not even just a selection of his work or
his research. It's basically the way I understand it is it's like a truckload
of documents and books and hard drives with data of god knows what, and
it's just like I would love to be the person who is in charge of
going through that, like I guess the archibist who goes through and organizes that,
because I'm sure there's some really interesting things in there that even Stanton probably
for good he uncovered back in you know, the sixties or something. Sure,
Yeah, I know Dave Marler, who's going to be on the show
coming up in a couple of weeks, has quite a library going in the
States, you know, down in the Albuquerque area, So he is really,
you know, conserving a lot of files and they're eventually going to go
to a university there. So yeah, and I love when universities get things
because you know, one thing, it's going to be extremely well taken care
of, exactly, and you know in students, curious minds are going to
have access to that stuff open to everyone exactly. We won't steal his thunder
because he's going to talk about it. But this topic is absolutely perfect for
your guests, Chris Kowski, because anyone who goes on Google and searches UFOs,
you're in the last three four weeks or so, you're going to find
articles about him opening the doors of his you know, in Canada, he's
the guy. People call him the Canadian UFO guy, and even that is
understating it. Like him opening the doors to his collection and sharing it is.
I can't even express how amazing that is for people who are interested in
this topic. Yeah, speaking of that, we do have a blog that's
in the show notes that has to do all with at collection that I'm gonna
be talking to Chris about. We also have a new blog up. These
blogs are written by Charles Zeer, who writes for the show. We have
another blog up called UFOs over Canada. It's kind of a broadbrush strokes of
a number of different UFO incidents in Canada, you know, all the good
famous ones, Falcon Lake and all that. Who is writing that? Oh
that's Charles Lear. He writes for the show, okay, once a week.
But we put out a blog, okay, and that's okay. I
thought it was like an ongoing blog. That's like one post is about the
Canada UFO events. Cool. Yeah, yeah, we have some real interesting
ones. I'm sure Chris is going to get into it. But people who
watch your show internationally outside of Canada, they probably don't know about the Falcon
Lake UFO event. And that's Chris is kind of the guy and telling that
story and that story and his work and maintaining the legacy of that story is
going to blow your listener's minds. And he gets into it. Yeah,
yeah, I want to. I do want to. I want to get
into that because that's another fascinating one. Um. You know, I'm going
to also mention that I think someone has wrote me a while back saying that
was all a hoax, and I just want to hear what his thoughts are
on that as well. Yeah, I'm sure he'll have a lot to say
about that. Yeah, yeah, so you said earlier you you had did
I hear you say something about some dirt or something like that, Well,
not dirt, I said, it's just a controversial topic. And it's like,
I'm sure if we even bring this up, people in the comments are
probably gonna tell me to go back to Canada or you know, some awful
thing like that. But it's I'm sure, I'm sure you're aware of this.
But there's been a lot of drama surrounding the man behind this YouTube channel.
Secure team name is yeah, Secure Teams Tyler, Yeah, Secure Team
ten. And of course, like anyone who follows this topic is aware that
there's a lot of debate about if it's all you know, him creating hoax
video as a way to you know, gain money and promote himself or whatever.
And that's a topic neither of us can figure out. But the big
or neither of us probably care to get into that. But yeah, the
big kind of controversy right now is he was criminal charges laid against him.
He was arrested and charged with driving while intoxicated. But shortly after the arrest,
I guess as the channel went silent for a bit, and then he
came back with a video basically denying it and claiming in no uncertain terms that
he's the victim of a basically a setup in a cover up. Did you
did you see the video? Do you know what I'm talking about? Um?
Yeah, someone sent it to me, so I did. I did
happen to watch it? Um? You know? And uh, uh yeah,
I mean if he if he's got some type of issues, it's it's
uh, you know, we don't want to uh you know, get into
that. But anyway, it's a I don't have any problem though, talking
about his videos because so um, not all of them, but a lot
of them are CGI and you know a lot of them are hoaxes. And
he has two million or so subscribers to his channel. That's a money machine
right there. Yeah, and you know it makes it makes us all look
bad, because that's right, his channel has a huge reach. And often
when I'm in kind of a mixed company, if it ever comes up my
interest in the UFO phenomenon, it's it's very common that someone will say I
see video. You know, there's a guy on YouTube named Secure Team ten
is videos are crazy and it's you know, and so the public is kind
of their first interaction with the phenomenon beyond fiction like a movie hopefully isn't but
maybe you know, a secure Team ten video and that's that's kind of sad,
well it you know, I've I've said a few times on the show,
and and I don't you know, I do get a lot of backlash
for any calling out that I do, but I will the person that is
just getting interested in the topic, that will go online and want to look
at UFOs. I don't want them to see fakes. There's plenty out there
that isn't and there's been plenty of sightings that aren't fake, and for someone
to get tainted, you know, right away, there's a third phase of
the moon and uh and this site and uh, you know, and not
not all of the videos are fraudulent, but a lot of them are.
And there's no you know, we're in the wild West here, there's no
way to regulate something like that. So it's it's a viewer beware type of
thing, you know. And it's kind of like in the art world,
we say that everything is guilty to proven innocent, you know, and that's
that's kind of how you have to look at a UFO video is try to
find something wrong with it and and you know, and there was one recently.
I don't know what channel was on it, but whoever posted it said
that there were and it was pretty darn good looking too, if you ask
me. And whoever posted it said there were hundreds of hundreds of witnesses,
but there were no other videos and no, there was no other mention of
who the witnesses were. Yeah, so you know, I don't know.
Yeah, there's a there's a guy on I follow him on Facebook and YouTube,
and I think people he's almost like the kryptonite to Secure Team. I
don't know if you ever heard of him. His name is Scott Brando,
but he uses I think he's Italian in his channel and name on Twitter as
UFO of Interest and basically his whole purpose I guess that with his social media
channel is to debunk hoaxers, and he does a really good job at Like
what he'll do is if there's ever anything in you know, in the media
or in the news of a viral video going around, or if Secure Team
posts something, he's very quick to find kind of like the you know,
the artwork, maybe that they are manipulating and animating to make it look as
a UFO video, or he's really good at tracing the history of a viral
video to figure out you know who first posted it and you know who changed
it or added a story to it to exaggerate it more. But if you've
never seen this guy, you should look him up again. It's Scott Brando's
UFO of interest. And actually, Martin, I think if you checked him
out, you'd you'd probably think of him as a good guest for your show.
He really knows the stuff. Well, there was I had a a
Cay I'm on my show years ago, and she used to call herself Sheila
Aliens and I don't know whatever happened to her, but she was doing the
basically the same thing she was. She was going through and debunking and calling
people out and she was really doing a pretty good job at it. Interesting.
Yeah, uh yeah, we need to be self policing when it comes
to this because you know, uh, you know, we have to watch
out for the people getting interest in this, because otherwise they'll just think it's
all, you know, a big hoax. And yeah, there's so much
really going on. Yeah, it's a delicate topic too. It's because it's
it's so vague and it's so much is left to belief and whatnot that it's
really hard. The barrier to entry is very, very hefty, because you
really got to know what to look at and what to look for to really
understand that I should come in. And all it takes is somebody with a
big voice that's just spewing nonsense to really throw things off. You know,
I haven't mentioned this yet, but for the person that's first time that that's
actually heard you on this show. You and I met, of course quite
a while ago. You were listening to this show and we connected. But
can you we have just a couple of minutes here, can you tell them
about your wonderful podcast that I actually listened to. I listened to a handful
of podcasts and yours is one of them and kind of enjoyable. Yeah.
My show is called Nighttime. I cover Canadian crime mysteries, strange stories like
kind of the way I see it is. I just try to find interesting
things from Canadian history and basically do like an audio documentary or like a radio
documentary to share the story. So sometimes it's a missing person, sometimes it's
a UFO event. And I've done quite a bit of UFO centric episodes.
So I think listeners your show if they just searched Nighttime on Apple Podcasts,
or go to Nighttime podcast dot com or find my channel on YouTube which is
just Nighttime Pod. Yeah, you'll find some cool UFO stories that probably you're
that you're probably unaware of because again I'm covering Canadian topics. Yeah right,
someone just wrote in the chat room that UFO Interests has been at this for
six years. It looks like wow, Yeah, he really impressed me,
that guy, Scott Brando. Yeah, So what do you have for shows
coming up? Who had I was trying to think of the ones recently,
the one uh you had where that their house people's houses got fried in the
inside all the wiring. Yeah. But the Bell Island boom, that's a
Bell Island is a small island in Newfoundland and it basically was a some kind
of aerial explosion, basically an explosion in the sky that caused all sorts of
anomalous electrical activity. So I did a three part series on that where I
am Part one was just discussing the event and going through kind of the news
archives. The second part was breaking it down a bit further with the hosts
of the Astonishing Legends podcast, which are two guys that I partner with a
lot. And then the third part was I met with an interviewed. She
was a young woman living in the home at the time that is seen as
ground zero, but I interviewed her now as an older lady still living in
the house. And for anyone who hasn't heard a Newfoundland accent, if you
listen to that episode, you'll hear something really unique. Right, Hey,
Jordan, we got to go to break, so hey, thanks so much.
I really appreciate you. Thanks for having me. Martin, say hi
to Chris for me. I will and we'll be right back. We're going
to a real break here and we'll be right back with our guests. Chris
Rototski. Alrighty, welcome back. We have Chris Rotowski Rakowski. I have
a hard time with that name. I'm sorry, Chris, all right,
all right, yeah, thank you for coming on the show. It's been
a long time. Last time. I actually we kind of hung out a
little bit here and there out in Phoenix. How many years ago was that?
Oh? Boy, was that twenty sixteen or earlier than that. I
can't even remember now. Yeah, yeah, But anyway, I am excited
to have you on the show for a lot of reasons. But for the
person that doesn't know who you are, can you give a little bit of
your background and what got you interested in this amazing topic. I think it's
amazing. Oh well, it goes back a few years. I started investigating
UFOs back in the seventies. If you can believe that, one of my
mentors was Alan Heineck himself. He had come up to Canada as part of
an investigation of his on some UFOs that were seen up in Manitoba in nineteen
seventy five. I got to know him back then. Actually, I formed
what was then called the Manitoba Center for Ufo Studies and progressed into the ufology
research of man Hobo and now simply uphology research over the years. I've been
investigating for quite a few years. My background is in astronomy and education.
I have degrees in astronomy and education. I've traveled widely investigating, published many
papers and books on the subject. I'm probably best known for two things.
One is the annual Canadian UFO Survey, which looks at all the UFO reports
that were filed in Canada in a single year. We're actually in our thirty
first year of doing this, which yeah, wow for me too. And
the other thing I think people have probably seen me probably on some shows like
Unsolved Mysteries and a few others talking about the Falcon Lake UFO case of nineteen
sixty seven, which we reopened as a cold case in the nineteen eighties and
just recently published a book called When They Appeared with co author stand Hollak,
who is the son of the primary witness, and we tell the story of
what really happened back then when they appeared, not talking about they meeting aliens
necessarily, but the family was taken aback when the Row, Canadian Mounted Police,
the Rote, Canadian Air Force, UFO investigators, curiosity seekers all descended
on their small home in the city of Winnipeg after when the word got out
that mister Stefan Mahalak had encountered what was described as a flying saucerer, the
Hollywood style flying saucer about an hour north of the American border. And the
case has been one of the best ones on record anywhere around the world.
So it's I've been investigating things recently and then looking into some of the older
stuff too, because out of some of the old cases you can find some
real treasures. Absolutely, and I do want to talk about the Falcon Lake
case in depth a little bit later on. First before we go there.
Do you ever have any earthquakes in uh in Canada? Oh? Absolutely,
earthquakes in Canada. I'm just looking behind you. I see those big bowling
balls up on the top shelf. Oh yes, my star globe and a
moon globe. Actually it's the astronomy thing, plus some of my book.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, well yeah, oh yeah yeah yeah,
we've and actually one of the other things I've produced was a detailed paper
on the tectonic strain theory. Michael Persinger, who his name might not be
familiar to some people, but he was a researcher in physiological psychology and experiential
psychology who believed that earthquakes were related to UFOs dating back to related to what
gender and the Upper Midwest was studying and so forth, and suggested that people
are across North America, um, we're seeing UFOs that were actually energy emissions
from very very minor earthquakes that jumped into the sky from from cracks that's eventually
erupted. Yeah, yeah, the earthquake lights. So yeah, I've heard.
I've definitely heard about them, which is really fascinating. I've wanted to,
well, I think it's great. First of all, their churner astronomer.
And then you have an interest in this because you know a lot of
people will say things like, oh, you know, no one, you
know, no astronomers are going to be interested in in the UFO topic.
Are you know it would hurt their career or all that. Have you ever
had any negative things happen to you because you have an interest in UFOs as
well? I wouldn't say negative necessarily. Certainly, some of my colleagues looked
as scans at me when I took an interest in UFOs. In fact,
I got into the UFO thing because as an undergraduate student in astronomy, my
professors were insistent that UFOs were nonsense and you know, the the you know,
people who see them are a little touched in the head or they're just
seeing spots before their eyes or something like that. And in the nineteen seventies
there was a fairly significant flap in fact, developed into a wave and I
the call started coming into the astronomy department, and my professors were getting a
little bit flustered and annoyed at all these people who are interrupting their serious research
with their UFO stories. And I sort of jumped in and said, well,
you know what, why don't you just give the calls to me,
because I'm my office is right around the corner from yours, and I'll be
glad to talk to these people. I thought I would suck up to the
props, you know, try and get on their good side. So I
started talking with the people who were calling, and Bygali, you know,
these people didn't sound crazy. They simply were seeing some things that were very
unusual, and I could explain a great many of them, but there were
some cases that I just wasn't sure what they were. And over the years
I became you know, the guy who was given the UFO. It's over
over the course of time. Isn't that something amazing? How how one little
turn in the road can just change your whole life like that. That's amazing.
Absolutely absolutely, yeah, um, you know, I know we're going
to be doing the show on UFOs, but i've the dark matter and dark
energy. UM. You know, I had Seth Shostak on I don't know
a few months ago and he was saying, you know, give me some
UFO evidence, and I said, give me some dark matter evidence and not
you know, but he basically you're saying, there's plenty out there that shows
that dark matter exists, but we don't really know for sure. I mean,
I eventually I'd like to talk to someone an astronomer about um dark matter
because you know, we're we're we're assuming something is there by the way galaxies
behave and you know, but maybe there's something about gravity that we don't understand,
or isn't there a lot of other possibilities besides an actual matter that's causing
these things to happen? Well, I mean my astrophysics courses were quite a
few years ago. But the problem with the dark matter and the and the
galaxies and the universe itself is that we're we're, uh, we're not seeing
the right number, the right amount of material that's required to uh to you
know, to keep their universe moving the way it is. UM. And
they're suggesting that, you know, there's some matter that we simply don't don't
see because it's hidden in galaxies and it's hidden in various other ways. So
yeah, the problem of dark matter isn't an insignificant one. UM. But
I mean there's many many other issues in astronomy and astrophysics that are curious.
I mean, Uh, there's a colleague of mine at the university who studies
magnetars neutron stars that are so dense that they're basically giant magnets. Uh,
you know, hundreds and thousands of kilometers across that are are doing some very
strange things to other stars and to matter in the in the in the universe.
So there are some amazing things out there. And it's why I got
into astronomy because it's, uh, there are some great mysteries. It's the
type of thing you can just lie in your back and look up and um,
it gives you a completely different perspective when you can put all of that
behind you and see what's going on in the universe. Um. You know,
not to get too far off the UFO topic, but UM, I've
heard that there's you know, the theory of the multiverse, um fits in
nicely with all the Spider Man especially I think is right on with that.
Um okay, yeah, I mean there's no question that that, you know,
there's there's all sorts of great theories about multiverses and multidimensions and parallel universes
and all that sort of stuff, and I hear it all a lot in
uphology, and the problem is that it is just speculation. I mean,
we don't have any evidence that these things exist. And even is saying that,
you know, well, the UFO popped into another dimension, Well that's
a little flippant because the science behind that is simply a science fiction. At
this point, we don't have any way of even conceiving of how that could
be done. We know that there are other dimensions, you know, you
may have heard the fact that there's eleven dimensions inside of every atom, But
on the macro scale, what we got are these four that we are very
familiar with. So we have to deal with what we have. And right
now I like talking a little bit more of the nuts and bolts, even
though I know the latest thing in upology is consciousness and who knows where that
goes. Have you yourself ever had any type of sighting that you can explain?
No, I've never really had anything that really puzzled me, and people
say, well, why are you into this then, because I'm fascinated with
the possibility in addition to the astronomy aspect, and that's just one possibility with
regard to UFOs. I mean, I was also part of the Folklore Study
Association of Canada looking at UFOs as as part of a popular mythology and you
know, part of our quest for understanding who we are in the universe.
But also I've given lectures in to departments of religious studies, I've had interesting
discussions with people in an engineering fields, and I'm going to be judging a
science fair in a few weeks and so it's for me it's more important to
engage people in the discussions of possibilities, regardless of whether you believe that UFOs
exist or not, whether there's aliens out there or not. Even just talking
about it and getting into some fascinating realms of discourse I think really opens your
mind. Because we happen to live in the Steven Spielberg generation, or I
guess maybe we're in the James Cameron's generation now, where you can go to
a movie and uh and turn on the TV and see aliens pictured and conceive
of travel between the stars. So it's getting quite commonplace. And the fact
is that the study of UFO reports is really the foundation upon all of that,
and we use it very easily, you know, everyday conversation and papers
and books and magazines and all that sort of stuff. But the reality is
without the UFO reports, we don't have any connection to that, and that's
why I think it's important to look at the serious side of ufology and the
reports themselves. Yes, and I do want to talk about the reports that
you sent over to the University of Manitoba or and we will talk about that
in just a minute. But I did want to ask this question from a
listener before I forgot uh and you were off the show, and I remember
next week, so this is uh, Libertists. It's kind of a long
whisted, long winded question. But now Libertists asked the following. I have
recently learned you are Canada's representative to the Five Continents Forum. Other than their
articles of association which are available on the Internet and fact and the fact that
it is being funded by China, very little information is known about the organization
other than their first meeting was held in twenty eighteen in Moscow, Russia.
Would you please tell us about the organization, how many countries it involves,
and what its goals are. There's very little information in the US right well.
The Five Continents Group has met twice. The first one was you know,
some time ago in China. The most recent one was in Moscow.
I was invited to go, unfortunately at the last minute I was unable to
go. And the ideas to create a scientific forum bringing together some experts from
the various countries to engage a little bit more and try and hammer out what's
really going on from a scientific standpoint. I know the Bill Chalker from Australia
went to the first one. In fact, we discussed about going to the
Moscow one. He wasn't able to go as well. But there are a
number of people involved, and I have to be honest, since I didn't
go to the Moscow one, I don't know much about what was discussed there.
But I think it's a really grood opportunity for scientists and experts from around
the globe to get together. I mean we talk about you know, mouf
On conferences and the UFO Congress every year but just imagine if you could get
together the UFO experts from literally all the continents on Earth just to talk a
little bit and share information. That's very ambitious and I actually I'm not even
sure of who's funding this, but it's it's quite an ambitious project, and
I look forward to knowing more about it in some of the future meetings.
That's about all I know. Wow, yeah, that is interesting. I
had never even heard about it until this listener wrote me about it. I
guess he's been doing a lot of digging trying to figure out what is going
on. Curious that you don't know who that who's funding it? That that
is imp If I had gone to mocks in Moscow, I would have found
out. But yeah, I never I never met them. How about that?
Well, I hope it's someone that just has pure interest and no other,
you know, motives other than that. Most likely it sounds like it.
M Yeah, so we have about ten minutes, and I don't think
that's going to be long enough to get into the Falcon Lake. But let's
talk about what your donation right now, If you google your name, many
articles come up that you donate it. I think it's twenty thousand UFO reports
to the university. So let's talk about that in general. What was what
is that about? It's actually a little bit more than twenty thousand. And
I mentioned earlier that we're doing the annual Canadian UFO Survey, and we've been
doing it for thirty one years and every year there's somewhere around a thousand UFO
reports in Canada alone that are filed in previous years. As we started,
there's a little bit less than that, but in total, there's something like
twenty thousand UFO reports up until last year. We're a little bit over that
now. And in addition, you know, talk about Falcon Lake, but
there's also other government documents that are part of the donation. Behind me,
you can see some of my bookshelves which are starting to get a little bear.
You may not be able to tell that from from behind me, but
I'm also donating my UFO library. And the idea was that I was speaking
with somebody at the archives at the University of Manitoba, and I guess I
have a bit of a reputation. I do some media and i'd actually won
an award for outreach in education regarding UFOs and astronomy and because of this,
my collection has been quite significant over the years in gathering steam. And the
archivist said, well, you know, we have eclectic collections in the University
of Manitoba Archives. And most people are unaware that the University of Manitoba Archives
has a huge collection of paranormal artifacts. It has. Dan Ackroyd's father,
for example, was a ghost hunter and paranormala investigator, and his archives his
funds are in the archives at University of Manitoba, along with many many others
who are into everything from channeling, say on is uh electronic voice phenomena esp
psychic research. Um, you know there are spoons bent by uh some uh
you know people who are into uh you know some of the psychic events around
those. Um, there are crystals, there's dowsing. Uh. It's a
huge collection, and some of that already included a little bit about UFOs.
So I thought the uh, it seemed a no brainer to include the UFO
stuff in my collection. And so I was approached and I said, you
know, what are you going to do with this stuff eventually? And I
was wondering about that. Um, you know, twenty thousand UFO reports take
up a lot of room in my home. The books actually take up more
than than one room. Uh. And then there's all the other uphod zines
and other artifacts that comprised my collection, and you know, for the offer
to make them available uh to people in the future some tour searchers was quite
an appealing. And there's also a crowdfunding campaign that the university has started up
to digitize the collection so that in the future would be possible in the same
way that some of the other collections. Blue Book at one time was available
online and it's sort of disappeared now, but some people have copies of it.
But you know, twenty thousand cases, plus all the government documents that
I've acquired over the years, which most of which have not seen the light
of day, and the book. So the giving campaign for the crowdfunding is
a great opportunity for the average person with an interest in UFOs to help fund
UFO research. And you know, literally every dollar accounts and I think I
gave you the link to provide to readers of the blog and website if they
want to help contribute to this. Yes, I will be in the show
notes for anyone that's listening on the show and I'll try to get that up
on their YouTube channel as a while. It maybe already. I believe it's
actually there right now. Okay, good, Yeah, So that's that's great.
Are you familiar with Dave Marler. He's kind of planning the same type
of thing, you know, down the road. I've met Dave and I'm
a little bit further along than him and age as well, so I have
a little bit more more than in the collection. But it's you know,
it's the type of thing where you know, bigali to be able to look
at this stuff online. Uh, And I mean a lot of the the
Canadian National Archives have had it's UFO archives available, uh, in physical form
right from the start. I mean there's disclosure in Canada is a real nothing
because we have we've always had access to the UFO files from the National Research
Council than the groal, Canadian Air Force and so forth. Simply they were
in the National Archives. And the National Archives of Canada have digitized eight or
nine thousand documents in their collection, so this is a little bit larger than
their collection, um and twenty thousand UFO reports is actually larger than blue books.
So when this is finally made available. Um, you know it's it's
going to be an interesting resource. Yes, and as I believe I mentioned
to Jordan maybe was off air, I don't even know. But once,
once this is in the hands of a university, you know it's going to
be taken care of. Absolutely, it's in climate controlled conditions rather than a
dusty basement. Yeah, so you get your basement back, I do.
Yeah, you're gonna have to make a what do they call it a man
cave or something out of it. Yes, absolutely, UFO free. Um.
Well, well that that's very very kind of you to offer that,
and uh, you know it'll be a legacy also, um, you know,
in tribute to all your work you've done. Now, have you collected
these UFO reports basically for Canada is Yeah, this is this is all Canada.
If you can just imagine, these cases are all Canada. UM.
I do have some cases from the United States. I had did actually investigate
in North Dakota and Minnesota personally, uh, since it actually pretty close.
Um. And then I have some files on some of the more noted cases.
You know, I have would do a file on Roswell for example,
and uh a Kecksburg and a cash Landrum and things like that. So,
I mean, I do have some reports, but this is mostly a Canadian
collection. Um. Standard Freedman. After his passing, his family donated his
huge amount of archives to the Province of New Brunswick. So it's in government
archives. Um. And you know there are other archives that have been developed
over the years. Uh. So the you know, James McDonald has has
his papers elsewhere. So you know, this is a fine tradition. And
I think it's preserving this information so it simply doesn't get lost, that's right.
And digitizing, I think that's digitizing. That's so important for anyone that
is curious and wants wants to book. Um. If you we just have
a couple of minutes to break, Um, besides the Falcon Lake incident,
what are some of the really big cases that really stand out in the history
of Canada since you've been at this, well, I mean, I uh,
a lot of cases have popped up over the past forty years or so.
UM, But I mean I have to mention some of the other cases
besides the Falcon Lake Shang Harbor, which also took place in nineteen sixty seven.
The object that I was supposed to fall into the harbor UM. I
was just over there last year for their conference UM and uh, you know
there there's a museum, there's a commemoration sign and a and a guide post
right at the at the shore. Some of the witnesses are still around and
I had an opportunity to speak with them at at the conference, and they're
going to be doing it again every year to have something. Falcon Lake has
something like this as well, and then across Canada there have been a number
of their cases. I know there's a conference about the nineteen is it nineteen
eighty nineteen ninety anniversary of the Hotel Bonaventure report in Montreal. There's a conference
actually happening in Montreal this year for the celebration. And this is a case,
if people aren't familiar, where dozens and dozens of people including members of
the police. There's some newspapers, reporters. They took photographs of an object
that was hovering or appeared to hover over up on the top floor of a
high rise hotel right in downtown Montreal. And too many this has not been
satisfactorily explained as well. So you know, there's some fascinating cases out there,
and I just a matter of digging out the information and trying to understand
what was going on. Excellent. So it looks like we're just about ready
to go into break, so we might as we'll hit that now and when
we come back we will talk about the Falcon Lake incident during the break.
I want to speak to you too, because I always get a I always
get a UFO event confused, and I want to sort that out with you,
and maybe we can talk about that as well. In about a half
hour in or so, we'll start taking calls. So all right, everyone,
so we're gonna go hit the break right now and we'll be right back
right after these see. All right, welcome back. My guest this evening
is Chris Ratkowski and up in Canada and we are talking Canada UFOs and there
are a lot of great cases. And Chris, thank you for helping me
with the case. I was having trouble remembering exactly, but you said it
was. It was in the yukon nineteen ninety six Fox Lake. The thing
that struck me was and I remember either reading about it or I must have
read about it, that the witnesses saw this a long way away and it
was huge and there were many independent witnesses, but they didn't all like get
together, so there were separate accounts of this incident. Can you talk about
it right? A really great Canadian researcher by the name of Martin ja Sek,
as part of UFO BC, investigated he had just heard something in the
wind literally that something may have been seen, and talked to some radio personalities
and they said, well, yeah, we think it was a tip that
happened somewhere in Fox Lake. He ended up going from town to town to
town talking to people if they had seen this object. And what emerged was
a very very consistent series of reports of an object that in nineteen ninety six
slowly and ponderously made its way along the length of a of a lake as
a highway that goes along the lake between the lake and the mountain. And
he found these uh he did what was called a dig in ufology, where
you go into an area that you suspect there are some reports and just persistently
talk to people at gas stations and corner stores and bars until you find people.
And he found originally thirty one and I think over the course of a
few more years he found in the forties, and these people never spoke to
one another. He had to track them down. Family were living, you
know, several miles away from one another and never thought to tell anybody about
what they had seen. They all painted a similar picture of a very large
object with windows that moved from the lake over the mountain. And there were
two brothers, sorry, two cousins, if I'm not mistaken, who had
seen this object simultaneously from two different directions. They're driving in two different vehicles.
One was ahead of the other, the further ahead. One stopped his
truck, got out and watched this thing fly directly overhead and described a very
very round object with a bright light on the bottom, like a classic saucer.
But his cousin, who was about a mile or two away, sought,
you know, from a different ang He sought from an oblique angle and
saw what he described as a large disc shaped object or a long cigar shape
object, passing um, you know, directly over his brother's vehicles. So
that's quite interesting. Now. There have been some attempts to explain this,
uh, and there's no question that some of the reports do seem to coincide
with the entry of a of a Russian rocket booster about the same time.
The trouble is that we do have some disparate reports that that don't seem to
line up with that. So what do you do with those, especially since
the witnesses, you know, are adamant that what they saw was was something
completely different. It would be very strange for a UFO to be flying underneath
the descent of a rocket booster. But uh, you know, it's,
it's, it's It adds up to a very fascinating exercise in in UFO research
and investigation. So you know, Martin did a fantastic job, and you
know, Ranks is one of the best investigative pieces I've ever seen. In
fact, he produced a report on this which was given to the Yukon government,
which tabled it in their one of their sessions and discussed it. Uh,
you know, the the Yukon Ministry I think of the Environment discussed it
within council. So you know, here we have a government that took an
interest in a UFO case that happened in Canada in nineteen ninety six. That
is that is amazing. I can't think of any other case where someone basically
had boots on the ground like as they say, and actually knocking on doors
or whatever. This guy did gass Steve's corner stores bars as you say,
and actually took on a case like that before having a primary witness. I
mean, that's a leap of faith right there, and it sounds very effective
and especial. We dont all these different you know people saying the same thing.
Doesn't sound like a rocket booster, no, but you know, we
it's something that's that's not in uphology anymore. It used to be in the
fifties and sixties it was actually common practice is to do that where you know,
you suspected that if a UFO was seen, you know, point a
over here, then somebody over there, you know, probably did see it
as well, and just a matter of talking to people until you found one.
And in Canada in nineteen seventy five seventy six, uh, you know,
I went off into the countryside knocking on doors trying to find people who
had seen some UFOs during a wave that was going on at that time.
So it's it used to be quite common. You don't hear about it as
much anymore, but it still is, you know, a really good practice
for UFO investigators now Besides shag Harbor, are there a number of cases that
involve the police department in one way or another other Royal Canadian or the Mounties
wounded police RCMP, Yeah, oh yeah. In fact, there's there's quite
a few cases that involved the RCMP as well as the Royal Canadian Air Force
as well mentioned Shake Harbor, there was a case in um uh Let's treat
uh Uh Rivers Manitoba in uh in the nineteen sixties, and more recently we've
had reports where Mounties were witnesses to some uh some cases in the nineteen seventies
and into the nineteen eighties, and we do have copies of those reports.
Um It's It's also true that in in nineteen sixty seven, if you can
believe nineteen sixty seven, the Royal Canadian Mounted Police helped investigate the first crop
circles uh. They weren't they didn't start in Britain, They've actually started elsewhere.
And they're actually photographs of these uh these impressions in the in the fields
that were produced by the RCMP, and the RCMP crime Lab also took a
look at it. So you know, the Canadian military and police have a
long history of looking into this. In fact, part of what I have
in my collection are the reports from the Row Canadian Mounted Police, who were
charged with in investigating UFOs up until about nineteen ninety five, and so a
lot of the cases we get our courtesy of the Row Canadian Mounted Police,
because what happened is that the Canadian what was Canadian Space Agency was then called
the National Research Council Hertzberg Institute of Astrophysics, and they were interested in collecting
meteorites, and well, you need to have reports of meteors and shooting stars
and things falling through the sky in order to find meteorites. So the scientists
decided, well, there's all these reports of UFOs that are probably meteors.
Let's get the RCMP to talk to the witnesses and we'll find the meteorites that
actually did happen. It did work in a few instances, but most of
the reports they got, of course, we're not meteors. They were reports
of disc shape objects were certainly not meteors, and those fell into what was
called the non meteor Excitings file, which was collected in Ottawa in the Herzberg
Institute of Astrophysics. I visited with the office a number of times and those
are the reports that made it into the National Canadian Archives. So you know,
police have had a good history of being involved in this. Wow.
Very interesting. Before we get to Falcon the Falcon Lake incident, there's one
other case. It just came to mind with me that there was a UM.
There was a mounted one of the count Royal Canadian Mountias. Yeah.
Um, and this was I believe a single UM officer that saw this cigar
shape thing at a distance and used his binoculars and uh now he's uh,
I think he's called like the raccoon whisperer. Yeah, you know what I'm
talking about. Yeah, that was claire Ville and Newfoundland. And oh boy,
I'm trying to think when that was now, I think back in the
sixties as well, or maybe seventies. Anyways, Yeah, he saw this
object, watched it progress over over a Newfoundland and was very adamant. You
know, this is where you know, he says he if you don't believe
me, you don't believe me, but you know, I'll stake my badge
on the line. And he did. And um. He has since retired
and actually has YouTube videos now where he is surrounded by raccoons. He has
this this thing where raccoons, uh, you know, want to want to
come and spend time with him. So from from aliens to raccoons, it's
not that much of a stretchase of and uh uh, I know he went
there was a lot of stress in his life because of that situation or something.
I remember something about that if he took a lot of ribbing. He
took a lot of ribbing from from from his colleagues and from the general publicum.
But as I said, he he insisted, if you don't believe me,
you don't believe me, but this is this is what happened. Yeah,
yeah, And I think it was a cigar shape but very very interesting
case as well. All right, so let's get into the Falcon Lake and
I want to hear all about that incident, for we do have a lot
of new listeners and a lot of people are not familiar at all with it.
So can you go over that if you would please? Sure? And
you know, as an intro to this, I have to say, if
you don't know the Falcon Lake UFO case, you're missing something because this is
a case that has everything you would possibly want in a UFO case happened a
while ago, nineteen sixty seven. As a matter of fact, we had
we celebrated the fiftieth anniversary at the site with the witness's son, and there's
been some commemorative events. The Canadian government recognizes this as a as a real
event. Wow. Back back in May of nineteen sixty seven, and a
fellow names stefanmi Hollick was doing some amateur rock hounding, some prospecting. He
was, you know, his background actually is in the military, as an
immigrant from eastern Europe. And in May of nineteen sixty seven, you know,
had driven out or sorry, I had taken a bus out to this
little town called Falcon Lake, which is about an hour north of the American
border, in about an hour east of the city of Winnipeg. And he
traveled there because he, you know, had staked some claims and he was
curious about the rock formations out there. And he entered the bush about six
o'clock in the morning and packed himself a lunch. It's very rugged territory,
very very rocky, you know, very very few people in that particular area
of the Canadian Great Canadian Shield. And was poking around and then around lunchtime,
literally around noon. He had stopped for lunch, had set up his
pack on a on a large rock, and there was a He was on
a ridge and below the ridge was a pond which some geese were swimming.
All of a sudden, the geese took flight, and he was concerned that
there was a bear around, because that's there are bears around there, and
he thought maybe there was one nearby. He looked around, couldn't see any
bears. But in the sky there were two what he described as cigar shapes
that were very very bright white in color. They seemed to be descending,
one state fairly high. The other one seemed to descend and land not far
from where he was. He crouched down behind a bush and this object,
which turned out not to be cigar shaped at all, but a disc shaped,
a Hollywood style flying saucer. It was changing color from white to yellow,
to orange to red as it cooled down. Eventually he was the color
of burnished steel, as he described it, and it descended. It was
thirty five feet in diameter, twelve feet high, dome on top, lights
for coming from the top, and this thing was sitting about a one hundred
and fifty yards away. He was watching it for some time, and because
of his military background, he was convinced that this was some sort of physical
vehicle, a test aircraft of some sort. This was just at the beginning
of the Apollo program, and he thought maybe this was a moon lander that
that got off course as it was being tested by the Americans. Washed for
some time, suddenly a door opened in the side of this thing, a
very very small door, but through the door he could see some bright lights
and he could hear some very high pitched voices, and he was convinced that
this was an American craft then, so he stood up, walked towards it,
and shouted, you can just imagine, come on, Yankee boys,
I'll give you a hand fixing your broken down flying machine. Because he figured
they were stopped for repairs. Well, he's walking towards the voices stopped and
he realized, oh, maybe not American. So he happened to be multilingual,
so he called out in other languages, including Russian. By this time,
he was already touching up the side of this touched the side of this
thing with his rubberized glove, which he had on to protect his hands from
the sharp rocks. His rubberized glove melted because the side of this thing was
too hot. The door shut, the entire thing rotated so that there was
sort of an exhaust vent right in front of him, and blast of hot
gas came out, hit him in the chest, knocked him down, set
his clothes on fire, set fire to pine needles and leaves that were around
the thing took off and at the last he saw of it, but he
tore off his shirt, stamped out the shirt as best he could, and
he was very dizzy. He was vomiting. Whatever the chemical was in this
gas was making him very very ill. He eventually made it back to civilization,
was taken to a hospital where he was examined and found to have first
and second degree burns. In addition, on his lower chest he had red
marks and a pattern that corresponded, according to him, to this exhaust vent,
the holes on this exhaust vent. And then the story came out and
the case was investigated by the Royal Canadian Mounted Police, the Royal Canadian Air
Force. It was even part of Blue Book. It's actually in the Condon
Report, and we have remarkably all the doc Well, I'm not going to
say all. There's probably a few others, but we have three hundred pages
of documents from these various agencies, the transcripts of the interviews that the Royal
Canadian Mounted Police did with him, the records that show that they visited with
the hotel owner of the hotel he state and overnight, the housekeeping staff.
They checked with the bar to find out whether he's drinking himself silly the night
before. There's documents between members of parliament, the Canadian politicians talking about this
because it was quite a big thing, and then we have the opportunity of
speaking or when I opened the case again in the nineteen eighties, I knew
the family because it turns out that the witness's son lived literally two blocks away
from me, and I used to hang out with them and ride bicycles when
I was a kid and things like that. And so after my investigations of
some of the cases in Manitoba, I thought, well, I want to
know more about this case. Ended up talking with the family who had actually
turned away media because they were sick and tired of being made fun of and
the people who are always showing up and not really telling the story properly.
So A few years ago, the witness's son and myself wrote a book called
titled When They Appeared, giving the story of not only the witness's words,
because there was a pamphlet which was produced describing what happened in his words,
but also from the Sun's words, my investigation and then the later fallout,
plus the givement dots and photographs. Now I'm not done yet. There was
actually radioactive material found at the site by the Royal Canadian Air Force and the
RCMP. They had actually considered closing off the area to the public because of
a perceived danger, and then a year later radioactive material was found in the
crack in a rock over which this object had hovered. That material was found
to be almost pure silver that was radioactive, and it was tested by a
number of institutes, the University of Chicago, University of Illinois as well University
of Arizona. The Lorenzs had it from for APRO for a while. It's
been tested by the Royal Canadian Mounted Police themselves, and very recently we have
we still have one of these pieces which we tested at a material's institute to
verify that this was in fact of pure silver. So we have testimony from
the witness who only passed away just before the turn of the millennium, so
I spoke with him at length. The witnesses family. We have the documents
from the official investigators. We have the Condon's notes, actually not Condon himself,
at one of his investigator's notes on the case, Michael's swords notes on
the case. Plus we have the physical evidence. We have the medical records.
He actually went down to the Mayo Clinic to be tested down there,
not only physiologically but psychologically. In fact, we have the evaluation by the
Mayo Clinic psychiatrist who said, this is not somebody who makes up stories.
Can you think of any other case that has all this evidence? Probably not
even Roswell. Wow, amazing. Now, last time I talked about this
incident on the show, someone wrote me and said, oh, you don't
know that that was a hoax? Has there been like a rumor that's going
around there? And if so, what is there? You know, what's
their standby of what they're considering a hoax? Well, it's quite interesting because
the Roe Canadian Mounted Police and the Roe Canadian Air Force both issued reports that
it unequivocally stated that they labeled this case unexplained, and you don't get that
too often. And the only other possible explanation, I mean, there's two
possible explanations. Either it happened as he said, or it's completely made up.
But I guess you have to figure out if he made it up,
how would you manufacture some of this material getting the radiation at the site.
This was actually melted silver that was found in a rock, in a crack
in the rock. And you can actually get to the site now. In
fact, you have to take a horseback ride to get there, because you
could walk in, but it would take you quite some time across swamps.
But the best way in right now is through a forty five to an hour
horseback ride over some pretty rugged territory, not for the not for the amateur
horseback rider, by the way. Um and uh, so you you know,
to manufacture this, And then you have to consider the fact that the
RCMP and r CEF took the matter very seriously and didn't charge him with mischief.
The story was very very consistent. He did not change his story.
Um. Uh you know all the years that followed, Um, I know
that some hardcore debunkers and skeptics, you know, just dismiss it out of
hand because I mean, why not, um, but uh, but you
know, there's a lot of evidence here in this particular case, and a
lot of the things that were said about him were simply untrue. For example,
the bartender at the hotel told the Royal Canadian Air Force that the witness
had, you know, bought many many drinks when he showed up at eight
thirty in the evening and he drank until a closing time or something like that.
Well it turns out that that's completely impossible because the bus that brought him
to that town to where the hotel was didn't get intil nine thirty. And
the house cleaning staff said, well, there never went any bottles in his
room, and you know, there simply wasn't any way that he was drunk.
And I guess the other thing is, if he, you know,
really was drunk, many people saw him leave the hotel, many people saw
him coming and going. You know, the story itself doesn't make any sense.
And being drunk alone wouldn't allow you know, some of this evidence to
be procured and make up such an credible story. You know, it's that
that self doesn't um, you know, explain anything. Um, it's a
very fascinating case. And um, you know, in the book and even
the witness himself never talked in terms of aliens. Um, he never talked
in terms of little green guys. He thought it was a physical space landing
craft produced by Americans or Russians or something. Um. And in our book,
you know, we simply state we leave this case open. It you
know, simply dismissing it as a hoax is insufficient. But we also don't
have any proof that this was actually, you know, an alien spacecraft.
It's a fascinating case, of fascinating case study. And one of the reasons
we told the story in this form was to to get the information out and
all of this material, um, you know, the documents, the government
documents from the RCMP and the RCAF, plus our own investigation files, plus
letters on file from UFOE investigators themselves, the doctor's reports and so forth.
We've I've turned that over already to the University of Manitoba Archives and it's in
the process of digitizing that as well, so that that'll be available for researchers
to take a look at as well. So I don't know it's it's it's
a great case and has all the elements you want on a UFO case.
But if that's not enough, hey, that's that's fine. Right now,
I'm putting up on YouTube for those people over there. You can see the
grid marks that this whatever it was left looks very very painful. And and
what type of health issues did he have because of this? Did he have?
Well? Well, he did. In fact, he was very very
nauseous, lost a lot of weight, couldn't hold food down. His son
said that there was this odor in his bedroom. Because he eventually was released
from the hospital and he was sent home, there was this odor that he
said it was like rotten eggs sulfur that was emanating from his body itself.
He was given blood tests, there were you know, there's no question that
he had these marks. In fact, this grid mark thing he described as
his buttons because they healed, but you could actually feel the scar tissue under
his chest and stomach right just under the skin. He had a series of
fainting spells. In fact, the Mayo Clinic suggested there was some sort of
talksin that was in his system that needed to eventually work its way out.
And you know, over the course of many years he had relapses his allergic
reaction, his body swelled up, passed out, and so forth. He
was an otherwise healthy man and had never been sick a day his life.
And by the people that interviewed him and talked to him, you know,
after this happened, Um, what was his You said that he never thought
it was never mentioned alien or whatever. But did he go his entire wife,
you know, trying to figure out what this thing was or did he
just trying to move on from that? Do you know? No, he
didn't fact try to move on. Uh uh. You know, graudastically cut
down on his his time going into the bush. Um he again, you
know, like so many people said, you know, if people don't believe
me, they don't believe me. But this is this is what happened to
me. In fact, it took a great deal of arm twisting to convince
him and his wife and his son to go on Unsolved Mysteries. NBC flew
myself and them down to their set to do the recreation for Unsolved Mysteries,
the original version with with Robert Stack. Yeah, and I think it was
redone and re edited. Um there and they really didn't do very many more
interviews after that. I know it was done on A and E's unexplained UM
and a few others uh, and which we participated in, but they really
really pulled back and didn't want to talk about things very much after that because
UM. In our book, uh, the witness, his son described how
he was bullied at school. You know, you're our dads alienship, you
know that sort of stuff. Um, and he was treated very very badly.
UM. The family uh uh you know had a lot more to lose
than gain from telling the story. It did not gain any any money financially,
um. And uh. You know, it was truly truly an amazing
experience to and to to uh you know, to to read and what the
Sun wrote in our book and to hear him talk about it himself. In
fact, there's a very powerful moment and I think I have it on one
of my YouTube channels where the Sun had never gone out to the site in
all the fifty years since this happened, and he went out with us by
horseback for the fiftieth anniversary, and one of the things he had was a
copy of a map that his father had drawn of the lay of the land
where this thing happened, and he had that copy of the map with him
when we went to the site, and when we were standing at the location
where this happened, he was almost brought to tears because the map corresponded completely
with what his father said it looked like at that time, and he just
he looked into the camera. He said, he was telling the truth.
This actually happened, and it happened right here. Wow, it's a very
very profound Yeah. Yeah, Now you mentioned that this saying rotating, It
was probably almost like an exhaust. Was there any type of like loud noise
or any do you talk about that at all? There was a rush of
wind um Yeah, yeah, no rocket exhaust or anything like that. In
fact, he had heard while this thing was landed. He described the sound
as if a bellows was expelling and bringing in air while it was on the
ground. So those are the types of things. And he said, there's
a smell like a burning electrical motor. All these little tiny details that that
add up to a really profound experience and a detail. It was some of
details that you know, really add up to something I suggested really was something
physical there. Now, what about landing gear or impressions or anything like that.
Was there anyone that ever discussed He actually never saw any. In fact,
there's some discussion about whether it was actually landed or just hovering above.
Where this took place was on a pretty solid rock rock base, and so
you know, there wouldn't be anything any any landing pad that could have made
a dent or anything like that. Right, did he after this incident happened?
Did he still prospect like he was doing at that case or was this
something that not as much? Not as much? In fact, his wife
told him, you're done. Basically, you're done. Yeah, especially with
the health reasons. That's especially yeah, yeah, yeah, And I'm sorry
you may have already mentioned this. But was there any radioactivity? Well,
there was radio activity found at the site by the RCF and UH and the
RCMPUM and then a year later these radioactive metal pieces were found at the site.
UM. The radioactivity that was found originally may have been due to radon,
may have been due to some natural uranium pitch plan that's one possibility.
But there was definitely a radioactivity above normal background that was found at the site.
And then but the radioactivity that was found on this silver was definitely anomalous,
and uh, you know that's a that's still a matter of debate.
Would you consider this case? You said it has basically all the bells and
whistles. Is this like Canada's Roswell in a way. I think it's definitely
Canada's roswell, But I would say better than Roswell because the United States government
doesn't acknowledge that Roswell happened, whereas the Canadian government. You know, does
we know where this happened, to a precise location. We GPS marked it
very recently. We actually have the physical evidence in our hands. In fact,
I could reach over and touch one of them right now. Can you
put something in front of the camera. I can move away for a second.
Is that okay? Fine? Sure? Yeah, okay, yeah,
you know vamp just a second here? Yeah, yeah, no problem.
So my guest, Chris Rikkowski, he is off to get some evidence.
We're going to see this actually on YouTube. UM, so if you're listening
to this as a podcast, UM, I can't tell you exactly how many
many minutes A good, good, good job vamping. Okay, So I
have it. I have this here, um, and it's in a glass
case because it is still slightly radioactive. I'm just taking it out right now.
Yeah, yeah, and it's double lined. I'm just taking it out
and here we go. Oh, I think I saw this online. This
is one. This is radioactive. It's almost pure silver. It's actually quite
heavy. Um. And it's been tested by a number of laboratories and um
uh it's definitely subject pure silver. Yeah, subject to a lot of heat.
You can definitely tell that. We've had it. We put it on
electron microscope last year. As a matter of fact. Wow, So there's
nothing anomalous about it, is It is just the element of silver basically.
Yes, in fact is very well, that's what's anomal anomalous. Actually it's
almost pure silver. Yeah, and that in itself is a is a little
bit strange unless it comes directly from the center of a vein. Um.
You know, well, this is this is more commercial grade silver. It's
actually very very pure silver. Veins wouldn't be you know, sterling silvers,
you know anywhere from uh you know a nine point two i mean ninety two
point five percent of strolling silver fans higher than that. This, Yeah,
this is a you know, the lab reports verify that this is this is
definitely a high quality silver. Amazing, And it was just it was basically
just sitting there on location. Well that's sitting it was. They had to
dig it out of the and I guess you know this. You know,
if you assume, I want to believe that this was left behind by a
saucer of some sort, you have to wonder, you know, what would
saucers drip silver or something? I mean that in itself doesn't make any sense.
In fact, what's fascinated about this case? It really makes you have
more questions than answers and uh as I say, it's more of a case
study of a case. And for me, that's that's part of the challenge,
to try and understand what really happened. Yes, yeah, so really
amazing. Now there was another you're talking about the government actually, you know,
admitting that you have a saucer. They did also in shag Harbor.
Am I getting that right? Yeah? There are government documents regarding shank Harbor.
I think there's only five or something like that, whereas with Falcon Lake
we have three or four hundred something like that. But the five really are
quite interesting. They show that there's something related happened there was some discussion at
a high level and the Canadian Navy was encouraged to go in and try and
recover whatever it was that was under the water. And although there are many,
many fascinating reports like that, and I'm as a matter of fact,
one of my next projects is going into some forensic ufology, if you can
believe that, trying to go back and look at some cold cases and the
government records themselves excellent. Well, we are open for calls if anyone would
like to call in, and that phone number if you're over at KGr A
radio, that phone number is eight five five four seven two five four eighty
three. That numbers up on the screen if you're on YouTube, So we
do have a call screener. Race will be standing by um, so you're
welcome to call in. The line is open. Um. This is uh,
this is really a great talk. I'm you know, it's one of
it's it's it's been a really really fun show for me so far. And
let's talk about some of the other incidents that you find have a lot of
merit, because from what I understand, tell me if I'm wrong, but
I have heard over the years that you're very, very cautious and you're a
good skeptic. You're not a debunker, but you're a skeptic and um and
and you really like to present, you know, things that are solidum.
If you're going to get involved at all. Well, yeah, in fact,
hardcore believers are convinced that I'm a skeptic and a debunker, whereas debunkers
and the real skeptics. I mean, uh, like Schaefer and phil play,
she'll play is nothing good to say about me. Let me just say
that I'm too much of a belief ever. Um. So I'm sitting on
the fence, and you know, those pointy picket fences are really tough to
sit on. They're they're really painful. But I mean, I I have
the you know, an astronomy background, so I know the likelihood of star
stellar evolution and other planets and life elsewhere. Um um. I have a
good knowledge of what's in the sky, and most of the reports that I
get of Venus these days, I can just say that the people you're watching
Venus, I know it's very bright right now, but that that's what it
is. Um um. But at the same time, you know, I
I like to say that, don't believe the believers necessarily, but be skeptical
of skeptics. And the other thing I often say in my lectures is that
um uh, you know, if the UFO phenomenon um is as a physical
component um or perhaps a psychological or a sociological opponent in any of those categories,
it's worth a study and investigation. And uh, you know, there
are so many masters thess and PhD thess being done on UFOs. Uh right
now. I mean over the years, there's been hundreds and hundreds and hundreds
and you know, just over the past I don't know, six months,
I've had a half dozen doctoral and master's thesis students from all across North America,
you know, asking for help and doing some of the research into the
their their UFO topics. So there's serious scientific research that's being done out there.
But at the same time, we're bombarded all the time with pop ufology.
Uh, you know of you know, mysterious drones and videos that appear
on YouTube with some release, you know, doubt, dubious providence and things
like that. Plus a lot of things that are being talked about at conferences
is now about you know, how aliens fly use consciousness and esp to pilot
their their planes. And you know, we've had seventy six varieties of aliens
from this planet and this planet, and some are reptilian and some are at
second and whatever the reality is, we don't know. We simply don't have
good information on that. And that sheer speculation, which is fun. But
at the same time, is there some meat down there? Because one of
the things I do is I liaise with a scientific community in order to talk
about UFOs with the scientists, and you'd be surprised how how many are willing
to talk. As long as you don't wear tinfoil hats and have pyramids on
your heads or or put their name in print. Maybe some of them are
are okay with that. Now, back in twenty thirteen, the Kepler basically
as far as the earthlike possibilities of planets within just our Milky Way be as
high as forty billion. I like to ask up people that know a little
bit about astronomy, that have interest in this topic, this question, just
to hear what you would say about it, And that is, why would
we be so special if there is a possibility of that many earthlike planets with
life? Just say, intelligent life. If there's a fraction of them that
could have intelligent life on it, that's still billions, And so why would
we be so popular that would be visited, especially as much as we're being
visited. Just your opinion. Well, you know the Drake equation which which
calculates some upper and lower bounds for the number of habitat planets with intelligent life.
It's really an approximation, and you know it's true there will be you
know, given the size of the galaxy, there will be you know,
many many planets out there that are earthlike and supporting life and possibly have intelligent
life, but not all that many. And the other problem is that the
distance between them is going to be very very very large. I mean even
the nearest star, uh you know proximates Censure I is you know, three
and a half light years away at its closest, and so you know that
that's that's pretty decent, and you know, James Cameron is telling us all
about it in his movies that are upcoming, and it's possible that there could
be a moon like that around one of the planets, around another Censure I
system m but you know, it's really tough to travel between the stars and
why would we be special, Well, probably because of water. Water actually
is very very rare UM and carbon based life, even though you know it's
possible to have silicon based life, carbon based life seems to be the easiest
to produce UM. And for that you need liquid water in the right temperature
zone and so forth. So you know, it's the fact that you need
water in an atmosphere there's not too reducing, uh, you know, suggest
that we are fairly unique. UM. And you know, there's certainly a
possibility, I know Seth Shottak has talked about this that will probably discover life
or have verification of life elsewhere in the universe probably within five or ten years.
Yes, that's so, that's so, yeah, But that though those
are going to be like bacteria or fungus or something like that, we're not
talking advanced intelligent life UM. And you know, those are going to be
very very rare. And in fact, you know, you may have heard
the analogy that you know, even to produce the DNA molecule is so radically
difficult and to require so many steps that it's the equivalent of saying that,
UM, a tornado came through a junkyard and left behind a fully formed jeep
wrangler. I mean, uh, you know that's that's as unlikely as you
know, as the odds have it, and yet we're here, so we
know that it's possible. Um, it's to make sure part of it.
Sorry, go ahead, I just say it just makes you really, you
know, appreciate the likelihood and the numbers involved, and that that it may
also make you think, well, maybe life didn't originate here, maybe the
pan spermia you know, um theory as maybe life was started elsewhere, but
that first spark of life, what the heck was it? And how did
it happen? You know that that that type of thing. It's it's it's
all fascinating, and there's so many ways that we could not be here,
Like, for instance, if we didn't have a moon, perhaps we wouldn't
be here. We didn't have extinction events, most likely would we wouldn't be
here. You know, there's just h it's just an amazing thing how it
all fell into place. And yeah, yeah, Neil de grass Tyson has
a has a great series on you know the Universe is trying to kill you?
Yeah, because it's just impossible to to you know to fathom exactly how
we could have got here given all the odds stacked against us. Exactly Again,
the lines open. I thought we'd get some calls tonight how we us
should do eight five five four seven two five four eight three. They probably
just love what you're saying and want to have you keep talking. That's maybe
what it is. We have a screener standing by waiting to take your calls
and UH, and that is available. UM, well, let me tell
you that I am working on I've mentioned I've done the Canadian UFO Survey for
quite a number of years. I'm currently working on the twenty nineteen version of
the Canadian UFO Survey. We're always a year out because it takes some time
to gather the data. UM. I have assistants who are helping enter the
information to a database. They look at every UFO report that's that's filed or
given to organizations, and the reports come from UH, you know, organizations
like move on On, like UFO Info. There's a number of Quebec organizations
from UFO BC, but also from Transport Canada, the equivalent of the FAA,
from other official sources and reports that come directly to US. So oh,
and certainly we're going through social media now for cases, A lot of
things are reported simply on YouTube with somebody's video, and so we were looking
at all these sources to get a true picture, not just one organization's analysis,
but a true picture of all the organizations that are accepting UFO reports.
New Fork. You know, Peter Davenport's group is part of this as well.
And you know, as I mentioned, over the course of the time,
we've noticed somewhere around a thousand cases. I've heard and seen some reports
saying that the numbers of UFO reports are skyrocketing and going up because of all
the interest in the subject. We're not seeing that reflected in the actual data.
I can tell you that right now, our twenty nineteen report will not
be available until probably at least another month or two. There's a lot of
work that has to be done in terms of the analysis, but we're not
seeing big increases in UFO reports. In fact, we've noticed this significant dip
this year. It'll be we're trying to figure out exactly how how much that
dip is going to be, but it's a significant decrease from from years past.
We've had a very good plateau of high levels of reports. The UFO
reports have generally increased with time up until a peak around twenty twelve, I
think, and then it's sort of stayed fairly high throughout the teens and as
we reached nineteen twenty, we've noticed a decrease in the number of reports that
are being filed right across the board, through all organizations. So why this
is so, We're not sure, but we won't have the actual data for
another few months. And you know, I would say, despite what you
hear, we just don't have the information yet. Wow. I do want
to apologize to the people that are trying to call in. Evidently there is
an issue. The phone will not ring. So race, if you are
listening, my phone just went dead. I try to try to connect with
your race. But anyway, maybe the government, the government doesn't want us.
That's exactly what it is. So I will in this particular case,
if people want to call in, I'm going to change the number up there.
You may call in until this gets fixed. That is, you may
call in at six O three nine six seven four O three zero and I'll
put that number up that's six H three nine six seven four O three zero,
and I will take your call for that smartin's personal cell phone. Use
it as much as you want. You can't believe it's not, but you
can't believe how many people do call when the show is not when the show's
not live, constantly call. But that is. I will thank you for
mentioning that, so I remember to say that that is a show only call,
and so we will take the call. I'll take that call over here
at Skype. And again that's six h three nine six seven four zero three
zero. I'm sure we'll get the other phone line all straightened out before the
next show, unfortunately not now. So again that number is up on the
screen, six h three nine six seven four h three zero. Go ahead
and call in if you'd like, and we should see some calls come in.
And we don't have a whole lot of time. We have looks like
about seven minutes or so left, so we can only take one call if
you'd like to call in. And so two thousand and nineteen, twenty eighteen,
twenty seventeen, I actually I either somehow I get your wait a minute,
the old phone numbers working. Someone's calling in an old number, and
and that number just U. That call just ended, so looks like that
call that line might be working. If someone like to call over there again,
I'll pop that number back. And I think I think the button in
front of you is for the Iowa Caucus. Just want to push that one
there. Now, we have someone calling in on my personal line. So
here we are. We'll get through this. All right, caller, your
first name, where you're calling from? Caller, you're there. Let's try
this one. Caller, where are you calling from? And your first name?
It just keeps hanging up, but this Sorry, we wouldn't have a
show without technical difficulties. And it looks like we have someone over. We
have someone ready to go. We have Vince Vince from Ohio. Welcome to
the show. Vince. Can you hear me? Vince? Vince is vanished?
Vince? Are you there? Race? We can't. We cannot hear
the We cannot hear the caller. All right, you know what, I'm
just gonna skip callson. I have one more person trying to call here.
This is Martin. I've got him on. I can hear him, he
can hear you. Okay, well we're not hearing him over here. All
right, caller, are you there. Yeah, speak up if you would
here. Can you hear anyone? It sounds like you're on a soup can
on a string, So we're gonna have to pass on the call. Thanks
for trying it, and uh, okay, we don't want to end the
show like this caller. Welcome to the show. Your first name where you're
calling from? All right, guess what, no more calls. I'm shutting
the phone down. Yeah, alright, I'm sorry. Um, you know,
people can always check me out on my blog. I think you have
a link there and the sight let me see, okay, so yeah,
go ahead, give your blog over there and people can contact Chris that way.
I'll just try this call one more time. Call it your first name
where you're calling from. No, no more calls, please, no more
calls. Thank you all for trying to get through. And uh, I'm
sorry it just didn't work out tonight. I'm also the admit for UFO updates,
uh the UFO discussion group in Facebook. So if you want I know
that one. That's a good one. Yeah, yeah, yeah, thank
you. Yeah, I admit. I was asked to take it over following
the passing of Earl Bruce Napp, who ran it for many years and people
from no, I didn't he passed. Yeah, um, so I'm actually
the admin for that, and so join UFO updates and join the discussion.
And there's a lot of interesting people on their you know, trying to keep
abreast of UFO news and UFO cases. And in Canada there's one called UFOs
over Canada. So you know, the social media is an excellent way to
keep in touch with what's going on. And you can even follow me at
you followed you research on Twitter. So um, there's so much information out
there. But I would just urge people to uh, you know, to
have an open mind and because it's very important to have an open mind,
except not so open that your brains fall out. And you know, there's
a lot of gray matter on the sidework that you have to step in through
these so try and try and stay level and but you know, there's so
much cool stuff out there. Just keep an eye out. Yeah. So
I'm just I mentioned this again. I'm sorry, we're not going to take
anymore. We're not going to try to take calls. Thank you so much
for trying to call though, we really do appreciate it, and sorry you
couldn't get through tonight. So I would like to ask this, because you
have been at this so long, do you ever get the burnout with you
know, you've had it, This is just too much and you know you
want to move on and just not look back. Do you ever get that
you seem to have a great attitude. Well, you know, because I
don't have as much invested in it. I'm not trying to prove that aliens
are here. Like so many people, I'm fascinated with the subject. I
find it interesting from a number of standpoints, and I continually, you know,
talk to people about cases. We have the unique opportunity to examine each
and every report that is filed in Canada, and we end up following up
and talking to very many people. We we have, um, you know,
the the advantage of looking at all the cases we you know this is
this is beyond what you hear on TV and on Project Bluebook and all those
shows that are are mostly fiction. These are the actual cases. This is
what people really are reporting. And we share those every year on the Canadian
UFO Survey UM and we talk about them on Facebook. And you know,
I do get I don't do a lot of conferences compared to what a lot
of the pop ones do. But I do go to some and I don't
do all that many podcasts actually, so yes, I know it, but
maybe you actually have to have me back and just do phone calls. Well,
um, I know it. I actually started bugging you a few years
ago because you were on once way back and then and then we met at
the conference, and uhum, I would love to have you back on again
because this is the type of talking I really enjoy the most, and it's
been extremely pleasurable for me. Oh, it's a great to drink. You'd
be on. Thanks, Yeah, all right, everyone, So anyway,
good night Chris, and thank thanks so much. And I'm sorry we couldn't
take the calls and we'll talk to you soon, okay, thanks, good
night, good night, all right everyone. So that is it for the
show tonight, and next week we will back with we will be back with
Chuck Zukowski. And I'm glad I didn't get the names confused tonight between Chris
Rutkowski and Chuck Zukowski. So he'll be back next week with him. And
thanks so much for listening to the show. Anyone can support it, can
go over to Patreon or over to our website. Don't forget to check out
the blogs over there, and I do want to thank people that help behind
the scenes as well. And remember everyone to keep your eyes to this guy.