WEBVTT

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You are listening to the IFAH podcast
Network. For more amazing filmmaking and screenwriting

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podcasts, just go to ifahpodcastnetwork dot
com. Welcome to the Bulletproof Screenwriting Podcast,

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00:00:14.960 --> 00:00:19.640
Episode number three sixty five. Sometimes
people don't want to hear the truth

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because they don't want their illusions destroyed. Nietzsche broadcasting from a dark, windowless

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room in Hollywood when we really should
be working on that next draft. It's

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the Bulletproof Screenwriting Podcast, showing you
the craft and business of screenwriting while teaching

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you how to make your screenplay bulletproof. And here's your host, Alex Ferrari.

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Welcome, Welcome to another episode of
the Bulletproof Screenwriting Podcast. I am

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your humble host Alex Ferrari. Now. Today's show is sponsored by Bulletproof Script

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Coverage. Now. Unlike other script
coverage services, Bulletproof Script Coverage actually focuses

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on the kind of project you are
in the goals of the project you are,

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so we actually break it down by
three categories micro budget, indie film,

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market, and studio film. There's
no reason to get coverage from a

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reader that's used to reading tempole movies
when your movie is gonna be done for

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one hundred thousand dollars, and we
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Coverage, our readers have worked with
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NBC, HBO, Disney, Scott
Free, Warner Brothers, The Blacklist,

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and many many more. So if
you need your screenplay or TV script covered

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by professional readers, head on over
to covermiscreenplay dot com. Now, guys,

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today we have a success story.
That's a story of tvod actually working

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with Amazon and cracking the code of
Amazon and making money with an independent film.

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The filmmaker's name is Ismael Gomez and
his film is called Death of a

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Fool and he was able to use
nine thousand dollars of Facebook ads to generate

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seventy two thousand dollars in sales through
tvaugh on Amazon. And in our conversation

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I dig deep in his techniques,
how he did it, what his ideas

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were to target his specific niche audience, and much much more so. Without

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any further ado, please enjoy my
conversation with Ismael Gomez. I like to

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welcome so Gomez the third. How
are you doing this good, Alex?

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Thanks for having me on the show. Ah, thanks for reaching out,

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man, I appreciate it. Anytime
there's a filmmaker who wants to talk about

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distribution and the truth behind self distribution, numbers, raw data and all the

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other little warts and all good and
bad, I'd like to talk to them

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because it's rare. Like you said
in your email, it's a rare thing.

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There is not a lot of transparency
out there. So before we get

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into that, how did you get
into the film business? Uh? Well,

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you know, I was so.
I was born in Cuba, in

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Havana, and I grew Cuban.
I couldn't help it, man, I

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have theano. It just comes out, you know. So I was born

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and you know, I was born
in Havana, and I grew up watching

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you know, Disney Pixar movies.
And actually the first time I went to

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a theater was to see The Lion
King, and I was obsessed with it.

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Like when I came out of the
theater, I was telling my mom

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and my dad like, this is
what I want to make. And it

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started as a cartoon, you know, like animated films. And and then

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my dad, because he was very
well connected in the artistic world, he

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would get me into the film festivals
in Havana, and I saw Apocalypse Now

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when I was like nine, So
if you can imagine being nine years old

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and watching Apocalypse Now, so you
know, I got really obsessed with that,

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and and I had the opportunity when
I came to the United States.

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So I came to live. Immigrated
to the United States with my mom.

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My dad was already here, and
I came on a plane in two thousand

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and nine and I went for everybody
listening us Cubans we're known for being good

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swimmers, so I came on a
plane. My parents came on planes as

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well. Yeah, so I came
here, and I always had the passion

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in Cuba. But I you know, I finished high school in Cuba,

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so when I got here, I
went straight After one year that I got

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all my papers and everything, I
went to the New York Film Academy and

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I started studying film. And it
was a great experience because they're very hands

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on, you know, so I
really I've never shot I mean, I've

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made home videos, but I was
there shooting with bactu film like sixteen millimeters

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and thirty five millimeters, and it
was a pretty cool experience. It was

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an amazing experience and After that,
I moved back to Florida. I got

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my bachelor's and because my whole family
was here already, and uh so,

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after I graduated, I went back
to New York and I started working as

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an editor. Uh So, I
realized while I was in film school,

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I realized, all right, I
don't think people hire directors not very often,

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so you directors end up always working
on their stuff. So I have

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to develop a second skill, you
know. And I also realized for me,

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in the editing is where really the
magic happened. Like I would be

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able to save because my shootings were
always super chaotic, and when I got

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to the editing, I kind of
like make things work a little bit.

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So I realized, like, this
is where the magic happened. So I

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got to learn this skill. So
I got very you know, well versed

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in Final Cut seven, Rest in
Peace and and and they you know,

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and then Premiere when it came out, and Avid and then finally Cut Tin

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and so I started editing, and
I started editing my friends' short films,

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my own stuff, and then I
got my first feature film, and then

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I got my second one, and
I ended up editing like I don't know,

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like nine feature films, already independent
feature films, and yeah, so

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and then after that I moved back. You know, my girlfriend was here,

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my family was here. I was
up there by myself dealing with the

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winter. You know, my Caribbean
flesh. She's not used to that.

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They don't like that. They don't
winter so much. I couldn't deal with

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it. So I came back here
and I had this movie, Death of

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a Fool, and I had the
vision of my company, Robert Hole Pictures,

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And at that time, Moonlight came
out and I was like, I

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saw what Barry Jenkins did in Miami
and it was very inspiring, and I

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was like, you know, I
can I can do this. I can

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be let's say, big fish in
a small pound, right, I can

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start here, try to make fantasy
films, which I don't see. Actually,

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when I was doing a lot of
research when I made Death of a

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Fool and thinking about all the fantasy
films shot in Miami, and I couldn't

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like find anything. So I got
very inspired and I was like, you

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know what, and then to open
the company here. I'm gonna start making

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films here, and uh yeah,
that's kind of like how it happened.

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It's fun It's so funny because you
you've walked very similar path that I have,

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because I did the exact same thing. I was like, I'm going

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to be a director, but I
see that no one's hiring me right now

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because I am twenty whatever young.
And I started getting into the post and

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that's exactly, and it's and I
discovered the exact same things and peace found

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a cut seven. But also just
everything happens there, and that's sometimes I

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think a lot of filmmakers don't do
that. They don't understand that you need

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to have a skill that pays you
while you're chasing the dream, while you're

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building those tools in your toolbox.
That's street sure, But you jumped on

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your first feature much fatch. It
took me twenty years to jump out my

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first feature, So you've jumped much
quicker. So I thought, there's a

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lot of begging. Oh, I
can imagine, I can imagine, So

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tell me, Yeah, so tell
me tell me about your film Death of

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a Fool. Okay, So Death
of a Fool was actually based on a

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semester film that I did at NAIFA, the Film Academy, and so I

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have been writing it for two years
and I was already in Miami, and

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I started submitting it to screenplay competitions
and then I ended up being semi finalists

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in like three of them, and
then quarter finals in two of them,

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and then Blue Cat, it's a
screenplay competition in la We ended up winning

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it in two thousand and eight,
two and eighteen, Joe the co writer

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and I, so we both won
the competition and they gave you ten thousand

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dollars is the cash price. So
that was kind of like the beginning of

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the funding process of the film.
So after we won Blue Cat, we

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ended up like talking to some investors
that I have worked with in the past

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for other projects or other businesses that
I was running. And yeah, it

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just took a lot of convincing and
really and it also I got very prepared

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in terms of, you know,
not counting on sundans and or you know,

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the lottery ticket and really trying to
think how would I be able to

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recoup this money, you know.
So we were able to bring a few

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investors on board. Then I did
I would say like thirty percent of the

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financing myself. We'll be right back
after a word from our sponsor. And

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now back to the show, and
yeah, we got everything together. What

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was a budget? It ended up
being like one hundred and three thousand dollars,

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so one hundred thousand, which was
really challenging because let me tell you

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the stuff that we pulled with one
hundred thousand dollars because it's it's a fantasy

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film, and you know, you
got like you have a magic fruit,

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and you have like magical places,
and you have it's like flashbacks like the

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seventies, so there's a lot of
crazy stuff. And yeah, but you

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know, I had an amazing team, that's what I can say. The

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cinematographer, the producer, everyone was
just so awesome. And that's also the

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cool thing about shooting in Miami that
not a lot of films are being shot

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here, so everyone was really excited
about that. You know, people were

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willing to just work and give you
good rates and all that to make the

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film happen. Yeah, that's exactly
what happened with me when I made my

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first film there, and it was
so excited just to be like, oh,

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someone shooting's, let's do this.
You know it's not bad boys,

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but we'll do it. Let's go. Yeah, which is really cool.

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Now you when you made the you
finished the film. Now, I'm assuming

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you went down the festival circuit and
the distribution path, So tell me about

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what you felt. Did you do
the festival circuit at all? What did

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you feel? Well? I sorry, I sent the film to Sundance,

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of course, because we all have
to donate money to Robert Reforends retire now.

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So I was like, you know, let me send it here.

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Actually, the cinematographer, Leila Kilborn, she was she had been to Sundance

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like seven times. She even won
with documentaries. So you know, I

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sent the film to Sundance, and
I did I think sun Dance was the

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film fastal. I had just finished
it and I didn't want to send like

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work in progress to film festivals,
you know. So I sent it to

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Sundance and then you know, got
the rejection letter and around the time I

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had a really tough call. This
is the where we get into distribution,

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because then twenty twenty had just started, you know, and I had to

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wait probably till the summer when the
film festivals were going to open again,

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you know, like the fantasy film
festivals also like yeah, Infantation, Fantastic

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fest you know. Although, so
I was like, should I wait until

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the summer, like waste six eight
months and wait for the film festival,

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or should I just launch do a
theatrical premier in the Coral Gables the Art

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Cinema and launch the film on Amazon, or should I just wait for the

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film festival? So I really hate
being passive, you know, and putting

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like hoping that someone else, you
know, allows And by the way,

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I didn't. I didn't even you
know, I heard about the coronavirus in

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China and all this this was like
in January of February. And also I

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had an eye opening experience because I
ended up going to Sundance with the co

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founder of Robert Whope Pictures, one
of my best friends, Larry. I

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told them, you know, we
should go to Sundance, even though we

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didn't get in. I feel that
we hear so much about Sundance and I've

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never been to Sundance, so we
should go check it out, you know.

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And for me when I went there, and the eye opening experience that

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I had is that even people that
I saw got into Sundance were struggling to

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get a distribution deal, oh absolutely, And I saw I saw everyone hustling

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and I'm like, Okay, they
need it here, and they're still hustling

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and trying to get a distribution deal
and thinking they might get like ripped off.

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So this is not even a guarantee, you know. So I think

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it might be better off just the
super in the film, myself learning this

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process, try to do my best
and really be self reliant, you know.

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So so yeah, so I I
made the call and I told,

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you know, I spoke to my
to the producer of the film, and

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I told her like, I think
this is a way to go. And

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we had the screening here are Coral
Gables. It was completely sold out.

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And then two weeks later, because
you know, it was still hot,

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you know, I I released the
film on on Amazon Video. No,

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did you did you get some deals? Did you get some deals offered to

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you? Yes? Yes, So
I spoke to a few. First of

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all, I saw all the episodes
on Indie Film Hustle about distribution, you

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know, and I wrote, like, I actually have a notepad and I

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wrote every time that I had an
insight or something that I didn't know about,

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I would write it down and then
revisit. You know, you were

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you were prepared, You were you
were locked a loaded when these guys came.

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Yeah, so they came, you
know, they came trying to bite

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a few of them. I think
a few of them had good intentions,

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I would say, But still I
was like, even though it so,

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what were the kind of deals you
were getting? You know what to say?

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It's just kind of deals. Yeah. So with sales agents, you

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know, I I feel them wanted
to wanted to charge me, which I

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thought, I don't know, if
you really think the film has potential and

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you can make some money, why
would you want to charge me, you

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know upfront? Put I guess,
you know, they need to keep their

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business going and all that. But
that for me was you know, a

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rep flag. I didn't want to
even though if you had good intentions,

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I didn't want to give into that
because it was money that I would use,

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you know that I can use some
Facebook ads or things like that.

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You know. And with distributors,
they a lot of them didn't reply,

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and the ones that did, they
had like fifteen year you know, fifty

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year contracts. Yeah, and I
was fifteen years, You're gonna own my

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movie for fifteen years. That's a
long time with no money up front,

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with no no minimum guarantee and was
there any was there any marketing capital or

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of course it was like onered thousands, like fifty thousand dollars every year.

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It was every year. Yeah,
And I was like, all right,

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you're gonna spend fifty thousand dollars in
my film every year? I as every

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year they had that sun So yeah, and then and then you could you

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could, you know, you could. I was like, is this negotiable?

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And then it was said yes,
and then okay, and then they

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would negotiate and bring it out to
ten years and you know, twenty thousand

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dollars. But isn't that But isn't
that interesting that they I've said this a

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bunch of times that they throw out
the worst deal to see if you fight,

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and if you fight, all good, I'm gonna screw you down.

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Yeah, and then if you want
to negotiate, I'm just gonna screw you

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a bit less. I'm still screwing
at the end of the day, you're

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getting screwed. Yeah. It's kind
of like they want to they want to

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stab you, right, and they
first put like shoved gun and you're like,

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oh, shotgun, that's really bad. And then they show you the

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knife, and okay, I guess
the knife is not that. Would you

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rather get your head blown off or
just a little a little stab in the

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back. It's just a little and
so so then so okay, so none

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of these obviously, none of these
deals. After listening to everything I've said,

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you just said no. If you
wouldn't have listened to all these podcasts,

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you might have been probably. Yeah. Probably. That's that's why I

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want that information to get out to
as many it's humanly possible, man,

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Yeah, it's they are. What
did they promise you? They promised you

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to get you on all the platforms, right, I'll get you on all

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the platforms. I know somebody over
at Netflix, so we'll pitch Netflix.

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I know somebody over at HBO.
Maybe I could get you an HBO deal.

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I guess I'm going to show Time. Maybe we could do a pay

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cable deal. What what's what's the
special placements? We're gonna get special pa

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iTunes? And because if you go
with us, like if you go through

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an aggregator, you're just gonna be
thrown in. But if you go with

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you get special placement on iTunes.
In that whole scenario, it's it's so,

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and it's getting worse. The predatory
aspect of distribution is getting worse and

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worse as everything starts to tighten tighten
around. So that's why I wanted to

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bring you out because you're pretty fresh. You're like, this is happening within

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the last three or four months.
Yeah, all right, So I sorry.

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And even the ones that have good
intentions, let's say there's still a

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business, you know, and they
still need to survive business model. See,

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and if they have ten films and
nine of them are performing better than

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mine, you know, they're gonna
they're gonna sell those, They're gonna pay

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more attention to those nine. And
it's not only that, it's also like

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I always put this analogy that it's
a business, right, And if my

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film is a tangerine, let's say, and people here buy watermelons, they

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will market my film as a watermelon
to people who like watermelons because they have

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to sell. And I don't want
my like I want people who like tandarines

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to see my film. I don't
care about people who like watermelons because then

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that's where the bat reviews come and
people and I feel that I'm actually,

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you know, cheating, right,
and I'm lying to people because I made

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you think that this was a watermelon
and you came saw my film, pay

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for it, and now you're feeling
happy, you know, And I understand

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that. So I that's that was
also for me, like I wanted to

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have full control. You know,
I'm a little bit of a city.

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So yeah, no. And obviously, so you're telling me that distributors might

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lie in trailers to get by the
movie. I can't believe that. That

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seems so unlike. Yeah. Uh. And that's the other thing that people

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that filmmakers don't understand is when they
do sign a deal with the distributor,

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unless it's in the contract, they
have no control of how that movie is

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presented. Will be right back after
a word from our sponsor, and now

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back to the show. Poster design, trailer design. I mean it's I

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mean, I remember when I had
my I had a short compilation and a

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distributor picked it up. I was
able to get it back from him,

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but he put on the cover some
woman with a gun who had nothing.

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She wasn't even in the movie.
It was it wasn't even in the movie.

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I was like, what what is
it? What is this? And

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it's it's it is the nature of
what they're trying to do. It's the

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old model of doing things. So
it's going to be interesting to see how

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this is all going to keep going. So obviously you decided that that the

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traditional distribution was not going to be
your path, and your budget range makes

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it a good viable option for for
self distribution. So tell me your journeys

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to your self distribution and what and
what's going on. What happened? So,

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you know, I started looking into
how would I sell distribute like where

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you know, what platform I would
use? So you know, there was

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Vimeo, which obviously has main like
an amazing potential because I think you keep

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like ninety percent of the revenues.
And then there was Amazon, and then

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there was other things like selling from
your website like gum road. I think

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it's called you know a bunch of
those. But for me, just thinking

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as an audience, like it's better, Like people trust is a big thing,

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right, So people trust Amazon.
People don't trust Vimeo or gum road.

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Not a lot of people, like
one percent other people, so not

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movie going people like people buying online
products or courses or things like that they

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00:21:47.759 --> 00:21:51.759
might want to do gum Road and
Video. The filmmaker will understand who they

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are, but general public will.
Yeah. So I was like, you

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know, Amazon is the best deal
in also, you know, even though

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I could have gone through an aggregator, right, I think I looked into

294
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film Hub and bit max. You
know, I felt like I don't want

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to sparse like the attention, Like
I want to just have one place where

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I can send everyone and here's the
film watching. Which I also think if

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all the sales go there is gonna
help with the algorithm and more people,

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they will promote the film to other
people, right right, So so I

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was like, you know, and
I actually I did. I did a

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few polls on Facebook groups and stuff
like that where do you watch movies?

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And I would see Amazon was always
the top one. So I was like,

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00:22:38.440 --> 00:22:41.839
okay, Amazon has to be And
I thought of myself, I mean,

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I rent movies on Amazon and so
so yeah, so I chose Amazon,

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which you know, Amazon is amazing. It's great that they give the

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opportunities to filmmakers, you know,
and I had spoken to them before.

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It's kind of you know, it
kind of sucks that they take fifty percent,

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you know, I think I wish
they would take less, like like

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Vimeo, but you know, it
is what it is. You gotta deal

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with so for people to understand,
so they take fifty percent of your transactional

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Yeah, like so transactional video t
VOD You know, if you if you

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00:23:15.640 --> 00:23:18.839
sell, if someone buys you movie
for ten dollars, five goes to Amazon

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and five goes to you. So
they take fifty percent of them. Yeah,

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and you know what, I have
the same I mean, I self

314
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published my books through Amazon and they're
actually worse worse than fifty percent sometimes.

315
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But the different the problem exposure.
Yeah, you are the largest marketplace where

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everybody has their credit card and everyone
trusts everything. So a fifty to fifty

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00:23:42.160 --> 00:23:48.000
split might sound bad, but the
amount of the amount of access you're getting

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for that fifty percent is the only
thing that makes sense for that scenario.

319
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But now, if you would have
signed a deal with a distributor, then

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they would have taken a percentage of
of of it. So at the end

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00:23:59.359 --> 00:24:02.960
of the day you might now you
might even get really ten percent. What

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00:24:03.880 --> 00:24:07.799
I'm really curious about is like how
much like how much Amazon. I wonder

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00:24:07.799 --> 00:24:12.640
if Amazon offers that same type of
deal to big companies like Disney and one

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00:24:12.680 --> 00:24:18.640
of the brothers if they give them
fifty to fifty or if they offer because

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00:24:18.680 --> 00:24:22.519
I feel like, you know,
it's a small business as an entrepreneur the

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00:24:22.640 --> 00:24:26.119
starting, they should offer better deals
for us than Disney. But you know,

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00:24:26.839 --> 00:24:30.640
but that's the way. That's not
the way the game. So that's

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00:24:30.680 --> 00:24:33.640
not the way the world works.
But we can have a whole episode just

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00:24:33.640 --> 00:24:37.200
talk about Amazon and how they treat
filmmakers. But at the end of the

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00:24:37.279 --> 00:24:41.000
day, they have opened up a
marketplace that filmmakers. So if you like,

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00:24:41.079 --> 00:24:44.839
let's take let's take Amazon off the
table that they shut down and like

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00:24:44.880 --> 00:24:48.960
no more filmmakers. Yeah, yeah, that really that really hurts a lot

333
00:24:49.000 --> 00:24:52.759
of a lot of businesses. It's
amazing. I'm really grateful. I think

334
00:24:52.759 --> 00:24:56.440
it's amazing. I think it's amazing
what they're doing. But I agree with

335
00:24:56.480 --> 00:25:00.599
you it should be like seventy thirty
is fair. Seventy thirty, seventy thirty.

336
00:25:00.599 --> 00:25:02.720
I mean, I think it's amazing. I'm really grateful that I can

337
00:25:02.759 --> 00:25:04.400
do this stuff, you know,
but if I have Jim Bezos in front

338
00:25:04.440 --> 00:25:07.160
of me, it will be something
that I will bring up. Also,

339
00:25:07.400 --> 00:25:15.559
also a Cuban brother, Yeah exactly. So yeah, so I decided Amazon

340
00:25:15.759 --> 00:25:22.000
and then and mostly right, yeah, I personally, you know, I

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00:25:22.359 --> 00:25:26.480
have seen a bunch of my friends
gone through distribution and gone through Amazon too,

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00:25:27.200 --> 00:25:34.000
And for me, something that I
learned is to not undervalue your art.

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And this is something that I learned
actually in the theatrical screening. So

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when I had the premiere at core
Gables, we sold out the whole screening

345
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and I actually brought some merchandise and
I remember, you know, it was

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00:25:49.039 --> 00:25:52.359
like this. My cousin who's an
artist, made like this. She printed

347
00:25:52.400 --> 00:25:57.279
a poster on like this wooden kind
of like frame and it was really beautiful.

348
00:25:59.200 --> 00:26:03.400
And we only made like twenty and
I was thinking, you know,

349
00:26:03.400 --> 00:26:04.359
I'm not going to make it too
many, and I we're gonna sell them

350
00:26:04.359 --> 00:26:07.039
for twenty box or whatever because you
know, not a lot of people are

351
00:26:07.039 --> 00:26:10.920
going to buy it and stuff.
And like we got there, we screened

352
00:26:10.920 --> 00:26:12.599
the movie and right when people came
out, it got sold out and like

353
00:26:12.759 --> 00:26:17.599
literally and one minute, and people
wanted like we want more, we want

354
00:26:17.599 --> 00:26:18.599
more, and I was like,
oh my god, she'd have brought this

355
00:26:18.640 --> 00:26:22.279
more, like I should make more, you know, And that the screening

356
00:26:22.359 --> 00:26:26.160
was sold out, like they were
like, so let's stop, let's stop

357
00:26:26.240 --> 00:26:29.079
numbers. So let's talk numbers on
that screening. So you rented out the

358
00:26:29.079 --> 00:26:33.799
theater or was it a split?
I four walled the screening so I ended

359
00:26:33.880 --> 00:26:37.000
So what did it cost? It
was like, so they do by the

360
00:26:37.039 --> 00:26:40.799
hour, so it was like two
fifty an hour, and I ended up

361
00:26:41.400 --> 00:26:45.720
doing three hours, so it was
like seven fifty. And yeah I did.

362
00:26:45.759 --> 00:26:49.079
I did like the Q and A
afterwards with the cast and how much

363
00:26:49.119 --> 00:26:53.160
and how much did you and the
tickets ticket sales. Yeah, so I

364
00:26:53.240 --> 00:26:57.960
ended up using event right again,
full control, you know. I put

365
00:26:59.000 --> 00:27:03.799
the price of the takeover thing,
and between the tickets and the merchandise,

366
00:27:03.160 --> 00:27:08.759
I ended up making like thirteen fourteen
hundred bucks. So it was a good

367
00:27:08.839 --> 00:27:12.160
day. You're a profit, you're
in profit. And then about the merch

368
00:27:12.240 --> 00:27:15.720
how much of the merchantdake give over
the time? Well, that's well the

369
00:27:15.799 --> 00:27:18.720
merch was like the tickets were like
eleven hundred and the merch was like three

370
00:27:18.759 --> 00:27:23.720
hundred, so combined they were like
fourteen hundred you know the day. Yeah,

371
00:27:23.759 --> 00:27:26.400
and I thought of I mean,
I thought, like, you know,

372
00:27:26.440 --> 00:27:30.119
I can keep doing theatrical in Florida, South Florida. Maybe you know,

373
00:27:30.680 --> 00:27:36.759
do like five or ten more of
these, you know. But then

374
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I ended up like two weeks after, on February twentieth, I launched the

375
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film on Amazon. So the first
thing that I did was oh so talking

376
00:27:48.319 --> 00:27:53.599
about Amazon for me, learning from
that experience, I was like, you

377
00:27:53.640 --> 00:27:57.759
know, I'm going to put my
film for sale first, so you can

378
00:27:57.799 --> 00:28:03.839
only buy it for like only purchase
option and purchase just straight first, because

379
00:28:03.839 --> 00:28:08.640
I knew the people that had just
seen the movie were going straight to get

380
00:28:08.720 --> 00:28:11.720
on teavot that we're going to rent
it. You know, there was a

381
00:28:11.720 --> 00:28:15.599
lot of people I got all their
emails that were waiting, so I went

382
00:28:15.680 --> 00:28:19.960
straight to t vot. I think
I put like fourteen ninety nine was the

383
00:28:19.960 --> 00:28:26.440
first price that I did. And
I put no rentals like the first week,

384
00:28:26.799 --> 00:28:27.920
like the first ten days, because
I knew it was going to be

385
00:28:27.960 --> 00:28:30.359
hot, you know, those people
were going to come and buy the movie,

386
00:28:30.880 --> 00:28:36.839
so I did that. I put
it for purchase option only. I

387
00:28:36.880 --> 00:28:40.440
didn't do any Oh so, I
got a lot of you know, uh,

388
00:28:40.599 --> 00:28:44.720
newspapers, radio everywhere, you know, talking about the premiere or core

389
00:28:44.799 --> 00:28:51.599
gables like local news. And then
a lot of social media and all over

390
00:28:51.720 --> 00:28:56.400
Facebook and Instagram, and then I
ended up just putting the purchase option for

391
00:28:56.599 --> 00:29:02.480
those ten first days, so and
then only the let's say, the warm

392
00:29:02.759 --> 00:29:07.720
audience, the loyal audience, right, the true fans came those those first

393
00:29:07.119 --> 00:29:11.440
ten days and they purchased the movie. I can't remember the exact number of

394
00:29:11.440 --> 00:29:15.000
how many people, you know,
but I was, well, that was

395
00:29:15.039 --> 00:29:19.319
happening. I started learning Facebook ads. I already had, like ran Facebook

396
00:29:19.319 --> 00:29:25.200
ads in the past and Instagram with
some other businesses that I that I had

397
00:29:25.200 --> 00:29:29.759
in the past, and also with
the with rabbit Hole on Instagram. But

398
00:29:29.839 --> 00:29:33.759
I hire someone to pretty much kind
of teach me like all the ins and

399
00:29:33.799 --> 00:29:37.440
outs, you know, all the
tricks and little things. And even though

400
00:29:37.720 --> 00:29:41.119
I thought that I knew a lot, like this person really taught me a

401
00:29:41.119 --> 00:29:41.920
bunch of stuff that I was like, oh, wow, that's how it

402
00:29:42.000 --> 00:29:48.519
works. Okay. So so that
gave me a lot of insights and I

403
00:29:48.640 --> 00:29:55.880
slowly started using Facebook ads and Instagram
ads. We'll be right back after a

404
00:29:55.920 --> 00:30:04.200
word from our sponsor and now back
to the show. And for me,

405
00:30:06.119 --> 00:30:11.119
what I think has worked so far, which I told you in the email,

406
00:30:11.319 --> 00:30:15.880
Like I feel that a lot of
people always want to like, I

407
00:30:15.960 --> 00:30:21.000
want my film to be seen as
many you know, that many people as

408
00:30:21.039 --> 00:30:23.200
possible see my film, right,
and a film that's a big mistake.

409
00:30:23.240 --> 00:30:26.920
I mean, if they could see
it for free, of course, try

410
00:30:26.000 --> 00:30:29.599
as many people as you can.
But when you have to pay for the

411
00:30:29.640 --> 00:30:34.480
Facebook ads, you have to make
sure that the person that watches the film

412
00:30:34.799 --> 00:30:40.839
right, the trailer, the teaser, they're really you know, they trust

413
00:30:41.119 --> 00:30:44.880
the brand, and if they don't
know the brand, you know, why

414
00:30:44.880 --> 00:30:49.759
would they click to watch the movie. So for me, the name Miami

415
00:30:51.079 --> 00:30:55.920
right was that trust. So for
example, when I was running ads,

416
00:30:55.960 --> 00:31:00.680
I realized the copy that would get
the most let's say, engagement was when

417
00:31:00.680 --> 00:31:07.359
I would put like, you know, Miami releases a new mystical adventure,

418
00:31:07.519 --> 00:31:11.240
a new fantasy film. Because I
thought if I put like rabbit Hole Pictures

419
00:31:11.279 --> 00:31:15.640
releases a new you know mystically,
they're like, who's rabbit Hole Pictures?

420
00:31:15.720 --> 00:31:21.720
But when you put Miami, people
somehow in their heads that's what I'm guessing.

421
00:31:21.759 --> 00:31:23.839
They're they're guessing like, oh so, Miami, it's kind of like

422
00:31:25.440 --> 00:31:29.519
made this film like the city itself, you know, it's made in Miami.

423
00:31:29.599 --> 00:31:37.680
So then I only targeted like twenty
five mile radios races in Miami and

424
00:31:37.920 --> 00:31:41.359
that started getting you know, a
lot of attraction. Then you know a

425
00:31:41.400 --> 00:31:47.240
lot of experimenting. I think you
have to do a lot of testing,

426
00:31:47.839 --> 00:31:49.839
like a lot like you know,
I had a teaser onder one minute.

427
00:31:49.880 --> 00:31:53.079
I had a trailer which was a
minute and forty. I had pictures.

428
00:31:53.680 --> 00:31:59.680
You know, I have different copywriting. And also you have to get this

429
00:31:59.759 --> 00:32:04.359
is a trick that I learned also
that you have to have social proof before

430
00:32:04.440 --> 00:32:07.880
you sent out. So when I
would first create the ad, I'd had

431
00:32:07.960 --> 00:32:12.359
like my small group of you know, friends and family that I would send

432
00:32:12.359 --> 00:32:15.359
it to them and be like,
okay, like this comments that you saw

433
00:32:15.519 --> 00:32:19.480
that you loved it or whatever.
So when the advertisement will go out right,

434
00:32:19.480 --> 00:32:22.480
you had social proof. So one
season they're like, oh, there's

435
00:32:22.480 --> 00:32:24.400
people coming to there's people liking it, let me check it out right.

436
00:32:25.119 --> 00:32:31.640
And so what I started doing also
the strategy was I would do video views,

437
00:32:31.720 --> 00:32:35.720
so it's one of the options when
you run Facebook ads. I first

438
00:32:35.839 --> 00:32:39.680
started doing traffic, which was kind
of like a mistake that you the traffic

439
00:32:42.440 --> 00:32:46.440
strategies pretty much Facebook finds people that
would click on the ad and would go

440
00:32:46.519 --> 00:32:52.599
to the website where you send them. But by doing video views, Facebook

441
00:32:52.640 --> 00:32:59.880
pretty much finds people that usually watch
videos, like they watch the most percent,

442
00:33:00.279 --> 00:33:02.759
let's say, of videos. So
I started using the video ads and

443
00:33:02.839 --> 00:33:07.559
that started getting better results and people
will still click on it and go to

444
00:33:07.599 --> 00:33:13.839
the website. Right. And then
I would do video views Monday through Friday,

445
00:33:14.279 --> 00:33:20.960
and then Saturday and Sunday I would
do a reach strategy Facebook ad which

446
00:33:21.000 --> 00:33:23.039
I would say, Okay, so
from Monday through Friday, I do this

447
00:33:23.240 --> 00:33:29.720
video views, and then Saturday Sunday, I create an audience that everyone who

448
00:33:29.799 --> 00:33:34.799
watched the video from Monday through Friday
ninety five percent of like people who watched

449
00:33:35.160 --> 00:33:38.519
ninety five percent of my videos,
right, I would make that an audience.

450
00:33:38.559 --> 00:33:43.400
Facebook would find all those people,
create a custom audience, and then

451
00:33:43.400 --> 00:33:47.960
on Saturday and Sunday, I would
just target those people again and with a

452
00:33:49.039 --> 00:33:52.599
reach strategy and be like, Okay, now reach as many people as you

453
00:33:52.640 --> 00:33:57.839
can within this parameter that I just
put that they're already a warm audience because

454
00:33:57.839 --> 00:34:00.839
they saw the teaser, and find
them and show them again, you know,

455
00:34:01.119 --> 00:34:06.000
the trailer. So that would bring
that would bring really good you're using

456
00:34:06.440 --> 00:34:09.199
but you're using this based off of
a fourteen ninety nine price point, not

457
00:34:10.079 --> 00:34:13.679
when I started. Yeah, when
when I started doing Facebook ads, I

458
00:34:13.679 --> 00:34:17.639
already had the rental option, so
I actually brought it down to nine ninety

459
00:34:17.719 --> 00:34:22.519
nine and five ninety nine. So
I started seeing, you know what,

460
00:34:22.760 --> 00:34:25.679
most of the rentals will be on
Amazon, and I saw a bunch of

461
00:34:25.719 --> 00:34:30.360
like new releases were not five ninety
nine for rentals, so I put it

462
00:34:30.400 --> 00:34:36.639
five ninety nine. And actually,
this was really funny because you have to

463
00:34:36.880 --> 00:34:39.599
you have to test things out.
You have to just don't be afraid of

464
00:34:39.760 --> 00:34:44.599
like sometimes people want to be too
like logical, and you think of like,

465
00:34:44.679 --> 00:34:46.519
oh, my film is an indie
film, who would rent it?

466
00:34:46.599 --> 00:34:52.639
Who would pay five ninety nine?
And a lot of people don't know,

467
00:34:52.280 --> 00:34:55.400
you know, like normal audiences they
don't know. They just see. They

468
00:34:55.480 --> 00:34:59.679
just see a film if it's a
cool trailer, a cool poster. Maybe

469
00:34:59.679 --> 00:35:02.280
they don't all the actors, but
the genre itself, right, since it's

470
00:35:02.280 --> 00:35:07.719
a fantasy kind of mystical supernatural film, the genre itself will sell the film,

471
00:35:07.760 --> 00:35:10.519
and if they connect with Miami,
they will sell it. And actually

472
00:35:12.199 --> 00:35:15.960
I did a crazy thing for like
a week. I didn't make a profit,

473
00:35:15.000 --> 00:35:21.199
but I broke even. But when
the whole coronavirus hit, they started

474
00:35:21.199 --> 00:35:27.320
doing this whole theatrical premieres for nineteen
ninety nine, so I actually for a

475
00:35:27.360 --> 00:35:30.320
week, I removed everything and I
put it for nineteen ninety nine. I

476
00:35:30.360 --> 00:35:34.280
was like, you know what,
maybe people will confuse me with like Disney

477
00:35:34.599 --> 00:35:38.400
and like The Invisible Man that was
also coming out during that time, and

478
00:35:40.400 --> 00:35:43.880
like, I don't know, like
ten people bought it, like ten people

479
00:35:43.920 --> 00:35:45.519
bought it, and you know,
it cost me a lot on Facebook ad,

480
00:35:45.559 --> 00:35:49.159
so I kind of like I ended
up breaking even. So I was

481
00:35:49.239 --> 00:35:51.920
like, you know, I know
that I can find more people, but

482
00:35:52.519 --> 00:35:54.239
it will cost me more, so
let me just let me just bring it

483
00:35:54.280 --> 00:35:59.559
back to a different price and kind
of like what I had it before.

484
00:35:59.599 --> 00:36:01.960
But it was it was it was
a you know, an interesting experience seeing

485
00:36:02.000 --> 00:36:06.679
that they would actually someone be willing
to pay nineteen ninety nine for the film,

486
00:36:07.159 --> 00:36:09.440
just like they would pay for any
of those big studio films. You

487
00:36:09.519 --> 00:36:13.559
know. So it's about let me
ask you. In regards to the Facebook,

488
00:36:13.880 --> 00:36:16.519
Facebook ads and Instagram ads, a
lot of times I found that filmmakers

489
00:36:16.559 --> 00:36:22.039
who spend a lot of money on
those the ROI doesn't make sense the return

490
00:36:22.079 --> 00:36:25.559
on an investment because they they're either
not optimizing properly or their their offer is

491
00:36:25.639 --> 00:36:30.320
just too low a price, Like
you talk about ninety nine cents ninety nine.

492
00:36:30.800 --> 00:36:35.440
You've got to get volume, you
know. So if you spend five

493
00:36:35.480 --> 00:36:38.800
dollars to get a one ninety nine
rental, that's not business. So how

494
00:36:38.800 --> 00:36:43.760
did you make it work? Well? Yeah, I mean I kept the

495
00:36:43.760 --> 00:36:47.199
price of five ninety nine, you
know, good rental and purchased at nine

496
00:36:47.320 --> 00:36:52.239
ninety nine. So I knew that
every time there would be a sale,

497
00:36:52.840 --> 00:37:00.000
I would make pretty much three dollars, right, So from five ninety nine

498
00:37:00.039 --> 00:37:05.159
fifty so I knew that, okay, I have to make under you know,

499
00:37:05.239 --> 00:37:08.719
under three dollars, and so I
would make sure. And this is

500
00:37:08.760 --> 00:37:15.960
really hard to what happens with Amazon
is really hard to track the sales that

501
00:37:15.039 --> 00:37:20.639
come from the Facebook ads because Amazon
doesn't give you the information, right,

502
00:37:20.679 --> 00:37:22.920
Amazon keeps all the data for themselves. You have no so you can't do

503
00:37:22.960 --> 00:37:28.639
a Facebook pixel with it for Amazon. No, you can't because it's it's

504
00:37:28.639 --> 00:37:32.599
on the Amazon page, right,
And so they're not gonna let you pixel

505
00:37:32.679 --> 00:37:36.400
that, so you could I couldn't
do a pixel. So it was But

506
00:37:36.719 --> 00:37:40.079
what happens is that I say,
like people, what I'm guessing. Like

507
00:37:40.119 --> 00:37:45.400
people, a lot of times they
try many strategies at the same Like what

508
00:37:45.440 --> 00:37:49.679
I would do is like I'm gonna
stick with one strategy one week to see

509
00:37:49.719 --> 00:37:52.920
the results of that week, right, and then I will see, Okay,

510
00:37:52.920 --> 00:37:57.480
so this week I spent this much
and this much came in, and

511
00:37:57.639 --> 00:38:00.480
you know, I wasn't doing anything
else, and I have kind of the

512
00:38:00.559 --> 00:38:04.480
clicks on the Facebook ads, and
I saw that, you know, every

513
00:38:04.480 --> 00:38:08.639
twenty five cents, someone was clicking
on the ad. So I started kind

514
00:38:08.679 --> 00:38:13.199
of like comparing the numbers. And
then after one week I would switch to

515
00:38:13.280 --> 00:38:15.400
a different strategy and that way,
you know, I would kind of like

516
00:38:15.559 --> 00:38:22.920
know what strategy work the most.
But again for me, it was all

517
00:38:22.960 --> 00:38:25.480
about that, like you have to
know your audience, you know. And

518
00:38:27.000 --> 00:38:36.000
for example, I also thought,
even though the film has let's say the

519
00:38:36.000 --> 00:38:38.079
film is about a grandson a grandfather, right, they were like after life

520
00:38:38.079 --> 00:38:44.480
investigators, So there is a younger
audience and there's an older audience. And

521
00:38:44.599 --> 00:38:51.960
for me, I focused mostly on
the older audience because they have funny number

522
00:38:51.960 --> 00:38:54.360
one. You know, younger audiences. I say it, you know,

523
00:38:54.440 --> 00:38:59.760
for my sister, they don't like
to pay for stuff. They want to

524
00:38:59.800 --> 00:39:01.599
just free content, you know,
because I mean, you know, they

525
00:39:01.639 --> 00:39:06.840
grew up on YouTube. And even
I sometimes like struggle, like I should

526
00:39:06.880 --> 00:39:08.679
have paid Should I really rent this
movie or should I wait until it comes

527
00:39:08.679 --> 00:39:15.440
out on Netflix or anything? You
know. So it's that's the subscription mode

528
00:39:15.679 --> 00:39:17.679
has changed, you know, people's
mentality when it comes to that. Right.

529
00:39:19.119 --> 00:39:22.280
So I was like, I have
to focus on the older audience because

530
00:39:22.280 --> 00:39:25.400
they're the ones that are really gonna
pay for this, right and most of

531
00:39:25.440 --> 00:39:30.760
the time maybe they'll bring their children, you know, their grandchildren whatever to

532
00:39:30.840 --> 00:39:34.800
watch the movie. Now, the
problem with you also have to think about

533
00:39:34.800 --> 00:39:38.320
the downsides. Like the problem with
the older audience is so so they don't

534
00:39:38.360 --> 00:39:44.039
leave a lot of reviews, right, Older people don't go and the Amazon

535
00:39:44.159 --> 00:39:46.239
start reviewing, you know, like, oh I love the film or whatever,

536
00:39:49.039 --> 00:39:55.039
we'll be right back after a word
from our sponsor and now back to

537
00:39:55.079 --> 00:40:01.360
the show. And which actually,
you know, the reviews. It's such

538
00:40:01.400 --> 00:40:08.679
a tricky game because you know,
mostly like people who only have negative things

539
00:40:08.719 --> 00:40:14.039
to say are the ones that go
and review, Like you watch the movie

540
00:40:14.239 --> 00:40:16.079
as the world did. It's like
this was the best movie ever. And

541
00:40:16.119 --> 00:40:20.440
you don't go on like IMDb or
Rotten Tomatoes and you don't review it.

542
00:40:20.679 --> 00:40:23.599
You're like, this was amazing.
But then you know those fascinators, negative

543
00:40:23.599 --> 00:40:28.760
people, the trolls, they just
go there and start like, oh,

544
00:40:28.800 --> 00:40:31.599
this was awful, you know,
but it is what it is. But

545
00:40:31.639 --> 00:40:36.000
then I try to, like,
you know, if I saw someone watched

546
00:40:36.079 --> 00:40:39.159
the movie or tag the trailer or
the post or something, I would message

547
00:40:39.199 --> 00:40:43.559
them like, please, if you
like the movie, leave us a review

548
00:40:43.599 --> 00:40:46.400
on Amazon because it can help,
you know. So. But it was

549
00:40:46.440 --> 00:40:52.119
a combination Alex of a lot of
like work on my side, I did

550
00:40:52.159 --> 00:40:57.440
a lot of like say, you
know, gorilla marketing myself with you know,

551
00:40:57.639 --> 00:41:01.280
on Instagram. I for example,
the core Gables Arts Cinema. I

552
00:41:01.360 --> 00:41:06.599
went on Instagram and I saw,
you know that they had eight thousand followers.

553
00:41:06.639 --> 00:41:09.199
So I would go to each one
of those followers and literally message them

554
00:41:09.320 --> 00:41:13.480
like, Hey, we're in Miami
Film Company. We just make this film.

555
00:41:13.840 --> 00:41:15.400
If you like you know this type
of genre, go check it out.

556
00:41:15.599 --> 00:41:21.079
Literally every day I would message until
like Instagram blocked me pretty much like

557
00:41:21.800 --> 00:41:25.400
you exceeded like you limit for today, so you know, so it was

558
00:41:25.440 --> 00:41:28.960
it was a combination of things,
you know, and like being on the

559
00:41:29.000 --> 00:41:34.639
Miami Herald, on the newspaper also
you know, brought sales and then just

560
00:41:34.719 --> 00:41:39.800
combining all that with Facebook, Instagram
and just doing a lot of work and

561
00:41:39.800 --> 00:41:45.360
also, like I told you,
trying a lot of different content. People.

562
00:41:45.360 --> 00:41:49.960
Sometimes you create a trailer and that's
it, like they market everything with

563
00:41:50.000 --> 00:41:53.360
that trailer. Like you know,
I had trailer teaser short clips, like

564
00:41:53.719 --> 00:41:58.960
at least like I don't know,
like thirty different types of like assets,

565
00:41:59.119 --> 00:42:05.039
let's say. You know. The
The thing that's fascinating as well is that

566
00:42:05.119 --> 00:42:09.599
you decided to focus on your local
regional market, which is something that most

567
00:42:09.679 --> 00:42:14.360
filmmakers don't think about because they're like, oh, it's just the local.

568
00:42:14.519 --> 00:42:17.599
I need to be big. I
need the world to see my movie.

569
00:42:17.639 --> 00:42:22.840
I I need to be as big
as Tarantee and Tino and Nolan. I

570
00:42:22.920 --> 00:42:27.760
need to be that where you focus
on the regional, which is extremely powerful.

571
00:42:28.079 --> 00:42:30.440
That's a much warmer audience, if
I can take your term, it's

572
00:42:30.480 --> 00:42:35.360
a much warmer audience. Uh,
And a lot of people will just support

573
00:42:35.400 --> 00:42:37.920
because you're a local boy. And
Miami is not a small town either.

574
00:42:38.079 --> 00:42:40.960
No, it's I mean it's it's
a big city. It's one of the

575
00:42:40.960 --> 00:42:45.360
big in the in the US,
absolutely so. But even with that,

576
00:42:45.760 --> 00:42:51.000
you were still able to generate interest
and revenue from that. So that's that's

577
00:42:51.039 --> 00:42:53.599
a really great way of doing it. And that's not you know, that's

578
00:42:54.079 --> 00:42:58.559
also like, you know, this
was like I at the same time,

579
00:42:59.000 --> 00:43:01.239
while I was in post, you
know, I really studied a lot of

580
00:43:01.280 --> 00:43:06.519
like marketing, you know, like
Seth godin Sure, you know, you

581
00:43:06.519 --> 00:43:10.280
know the Purple Cow and uh,
there's another guy called Roy Sutherland, he's

582
00:43:10.280 --> 00:43:15.239
from London, you know, and
really started marketing, uh, and try

583
00:43:15.280 --> 00:43:20.280
to learn as much as possible.
And one of the ideas is like how

584
00:43:20.480 --> 00:43:24.920
you know how ideas like spread,
right, and everything starts small, Like

585
00:43:24.960 --> 00:43:29.880
if you think about Facebook, how
did Facebook start? Facebook started in Harvard

586
00:43:30.199 --> 00:43:34.480
and then it started with only IVY
leagues, right, and then once they

587
00:43:34.519 --> 00:43:37.920
got the IVY leagues, when people
see something that they like, they will

588
00:43:37.920 --> 00:43:40.480
tell their friends, and the friends
will to tell the friends and that's how

589
00:43:40.519 --> 00:43:44.639
things spread. So I was like, I'm only going to focus in Miami

590
00:43:44.800 --> 00:43:50.400
and then from there on, actually, later on, I started seeing there

591
00:43:50.440 --> 00:43:54.119
was some sales in the UK where
I was doing no marketing, and which

592
00:43:54.199 --> 00:43:57.079
was really interesting. I was like, I don't know how people in the

593
00:43:57.199 --> 00:44:00.960
UK are watching this, but I
guess they're just because they see as an

594
00:44:00.000 --> 00:44:04.559
American movie, they're they're watching it. But you know, I really focused

595
00:44:04.679 --> 00:44:12.280
just on local and make like I
would target Miami twenty five miles radius,

596
00:44:12.360 --> 00:44:15.320
right, and I would say people
who liked Pixar, Disney, Harry Potter,

597
00:44:15.360 --> 00:44:19.360
you know, films that kind of
had the same tone that my film.

598
00:44:20.719 --> 00:44:25.920
And then I would also do besides
that and would narrow down down the

599
00:44:27.000 --> 00:44:30.519
audience that they would also purchase on
Amazon dot Com, which it's pretty much

600
00:44:30.519 --> 00:44:35.119
everyone, but you know, but
that would really put it like, just

601
00:44:35.239 --> 00:44:38.159
find those people that have purchased on
Amazon, which you know, they like,

602
00:44:38.239 --> 00:44:43.440
they have Amazon Instant Video or whatever, and they like these type of

603
00:44:43.440 --> 00:44:46.320
films that are similar. Now,
what, so let's get some numbers if

604
00:44:46.360 --> 00:44:51.079
you don't mind, What are the
returns of all of this work and how

605
00:44:51.159 --> 00:45:00.639
much revenue have you generated with off
of Amazon? So Amazon has been like

606
00:45:00.400 --> 00:45:07.000
thirty six thousand dollars, which that's
insane which is I mean, when you

607
00:45:07.039 --> 00:45:10.320
really think about it, with seventy
two you know, so that's thirty six

608
00:45:10.360 --> 00:45:15.000
to you, thirty six to me. Yeahy, So you generated seventy two

609
00:45:15.039 --> 00:45:21.079
thousand grows off of this technique,
off of what you're doing, and you're

610
00:45:21.320 --> 00:45:25.719
and you're one hundred thousand dollars.
Yeah, indeed with no stars attached and

611
00:45:25.840 --> 00:45:31.480
a unique genre being like fantasy is
not you know, it's it's it's there's

612
00:45:31.559 --> 00:45:36.360
less water, there's less sharks or
less blood in that water. It's a

613
00:45:36.360 --> 00:45:38.599
little bit more blue oceany if you
want, the fishing is better in your

614
00:45:38.639 --> 00:45:42.960
area. So it's a niche.
It's a niche. It's a large niche,

615
00:45:42.960 --> 00:45:45.119
but it's a niche. So you've
been able to generate And then how

616
00:45:45.199 --> 00:45:49.760
much does that cost you? And
then yeah, and then nine thousand dollars

617
00:45:49.800 --> 00:45:52.239
in marketing, around nine thousand dollars
so far, So the profit ends up

618
00:45:52.280 --> 00:45:59.400
being like what twenty seven plus the
what I've made in the theatrical premiere.

619
00:46:00.360 --> 00:46:02.760
I don't know about I don't know
about you, but I will spend nine

620
00:46:02.840 --> 00:46:08.679
thousand dollars every day to get twenty
seven thousand. All day. I'll just

621
00:46:08.800 --> 00:46:14.880
continue to feed that beast. So
it's fascinating. You're one of the few

622
00:46:15.480 --> 00:46:20.599
heard of your making it work.
Now you have a very there's a lot

623
00:46:20.639 --> 00:46:23.440
of unique elements, like in every
project, like and you mentioned Range fifteen

624
00:46:23.880 --> 00:46:29.079
in your email, that was a
unique set of circumstances in a unique time

625
00:46:29.199 --> 00:46:31.440
period. Every movie is going to
be a little bit different. Like your

626
00:46:31.480 --> 00:46:36.159
movie might be hitting at the right
time with the right movie. That also

627
00:46:36.239 --> 00:46:39.159
helped, you know the I mean
the hope that everyone was stock home,

628
00:46:39.280 --> 00:46:43.840
you know, stock at home.
I'm looking for new, fresh content and

629
00:46:43.880 --> 00:46:47.039
then you just happen to be I've
got fresh content. I also know how

630
00:46:47.039 --> 00:46:51.280
to market it because I've done my
homework. I've done my research, and

631
00:46:51.440 --> 00:46:53.599
I want you, I want to
I want you to tell all the filmmakers

632
00:46:53.679 --> 00:46:57.400
out there, please, because I've
been preaching this for the longest time,

633
00:46:57.440 --> 00:47:00.920
that filmmakers need to understand marketing.
They need to educate themselves on the distribution

634
00:47:01.239 --> 00:47:06.039
processes, the self distribution process,
all the non sexy because everything you're talking

635
00:47:06.039 --> 00:47:08.719
about is not sexy. It's not
as sexy as the new lexap with the

636
00:47:08.800 --> 00:47:13.480
new the cook lens, yeah,
you know, and the techno crane that

637
00:47:13.519 --> 00:47:16.199
I'm going to work on and it's
not the sexy stuff. Can you please

638
00:47:16.239 --> 00:47:22.760
tell the audience the value that you
have found by doing that deep dive into

639
00:47:22.760 --> 00:47:28.079
marketing, because obviously it's working.
Yeah, I mean I would tell you

640
00:47:28.159 --> 00:47:31.000
this. This is how I think
about it. If you know how to

641
00:47:31.119 --> 00:47:35.199
market, if you know how to
distribute, if you know how to sell

642
00:47:35.400 --> 00:47:39.280
anything, then you can make anything. Right. It's not like you make

643
00:47:39.360 --> 00:47:44.360
something and then like how am I
going to sell this? It's like learn

644
00:47:44.400 --> 00:47:46.559
how to sell things. Like I
think of like Steve Jobs, which I

645
00:47:46.559 --> 00:47:52.199
think is once one of the greatest
marketers ever, right, how he created

646
00:47:52.599 --> 00:47:58.880
Apple and all those things, and
he would find uh how to like think

647
00:47:58.920 --> 00:48:01.519
about it, like how people hey
six times more for an iPhone, which

648
00:48:01.599 --> 00:48:06.679
is pretty much does the same as
a as an android, you know,

649
00:48:06.679 --> 00:48:09.800
an LG. Like it's just not
as pretty. It's just not as pretty,

650
00:48:09.800 --> 00:48:14.880
and it's the brand because he grew
the brand and that he connected with

651
00:48:15.039 --> 00:48:17.960
a certain type of appeal. And
for me, it was like I thought

652
00:48:17.960 --> 00:48:22.239
about, like you know, I
have because people just like to make things.

653
00:48:22.320 --> 00:48:24.960
You know, as an artist,
you just want to think about the

654
00:48:24.960 --> 00:48:30.039
creative process, but then you end
up being you know, at the mercy

655
00:48:31.280 --> 00:48:35.639
of like, you know, distributor, and sometimes you will find a good

656
00:48:35.639 --> 00:48:39.400
distributor. But like even if you
have a good distributor, wouldn't you want

657
00:48:39.440 --> 00:48:44.800
to know how that works? And
they might not even even you. I

658
00:48:44.840 --> 00:48:49.239
mean, if you know your audience, if you know your movie, your

659
00:48:49.360 --> 00:48:53.039
input might be you know, so
valuable for them that might help even with

660
00:48:53.119 --> 00:48:58.400
the sales. So for me,
it's like you have to learn, you

661
00:48:58.440 --> 00:49:04.079
know again, like I was reckoned
men Seth godin UH all his YouTube videos.

662
00:49:04.119 --> 00:49:07.320
He also has a course that I
took online. It's called the semin

663
00:49:07.440 --> 00:49:15.400
the Marketing Seminar uh Roy Sauerland from
h from Great Britain. You know garyvy

664
00:49:15.440 --> 00:49:20.199
it's amazing. Yeah, you know
he's actually doing UH tea with Gary Vee

665
00:49:20.199 --> 00:49:22.880
every morning at nine am. I
fought, Yeah, he's he's pretty cool.

666
00:49:22.960 --> 00:49:25.760
He's got a bunch of good stuff, you know. And and yeah,

667
00:49:25.880 --> 00:49:30.719
and watching in the film Hustle all
the episodes about distribution, you know,

668
00:49:30.800 --> 00:49:34.679
try to learn as much as you
can because that's the only way that

669
00:49:36.239 --> 00:49:42.239
you can be self reliant and and
and not depend again on the lottery ticket

670
00:49:42.360 --> 00:49:45.639
of getting into sun Dance. And
and I also thought about that. I

671
00:49:45.679 --> 00:49:51.320
was telling Larry, my friend,
the co founder, we'll be right back

672
00:49:51.440 --> 00:50:00.039
after a word from our sponsor,
and now back to the show. I

673
00:50:00.000 --> 00:50:01.559
I told them, like, you
know, like I think of Disney.

674
00:50:01.599 --> 00:50:06.119
Okay, they're so successful, but
I think of Disney, I think of

675
00:50:06.320 --> 00:50:08.119
like you know, Wonder Brothers.
They don't go to know, film festivals,

676
00:50:08.119 --> 00:50:12.119
they don't care about film festivals.
They go straight to the audience.

677
00:50:12.159 --> 00:50:15.559
Why should we And I love film
festivals and I have nothing against them,

678
00:50:15.960 --> 00:50:20.639
right, but you're playing by the
rules, So why should we be like

679
00:50:20.760 --> 00:50:22.960
waiting? I was, I would
keep some men into film festival, but

680
00:50:23.000 --> 00:50:28.440
we shouldn't be waiting for that to
be our strategy. We should be just

681
00:50:28.480 --> 00:50:31.639
getting straight to the audience, you
know. So so yeah, so that's

682
00:50:31.800 --> 00:50:37.159
that's it's it's it's an inspiring story, brother, I really appreciate it.

683
00:50:37.199 --> 00:50:40.199
You've been able to do the numbers
that you've talked about, which is like,

684
00:50:40.280 --> 00:50:44.480
no one's getting rich. You're not
getting you're not rolling around in it.

685
00:50:44.559 --> 00:50:49.480
But it's you're building a business my
investors. That that's the most important

686
00:50:49.480 --> 00:50:52.280
thing. Now that I'll be able
to pay my investors. You know that

687
00:50:52.360 --> 00:50:54.639
I can talk again for my second
feature film that I want to you know,

688
00:50:54.719 --> 00:50:59.920
so it also creates that you know, trust, which is really import

689
00:51:00.159 --> 00:51:02.400
and I'm building my audience as well, people who already saw the movie and

690
00:51:02.559 --> 00:51:07.440
liked it and you know, saw
the company in Miami. So I just

691
00:51:07.480 --> 00:51:12.119
think, just thinking from listening to
your story, I think you could definitely

692
00:51:12.199 --> 00:51:15.360
benefit from reading the Rise of the
film entrepreneur. I think your head's going

693
00:51:15.440 --> 00:51:20.000
to explode getting it, getting it
for sure. If I may do a

694
00:51:20.039 --> 00:51:22.159
self plug, No, I think
there's a lot of I think you're leaving

695
00:51:22.159 --> 00:51:27.480
a lot of money on the table
honestly with this. But you're doing fantastic

696
00:51:27.519 --> 00:51:30.480
by the way, You're doing better
than ninety nine point five percent of the

697
00:51:30.480 --> 00:51:34.039
filmmakers I talked to, So you're
doing extremely well. But I think you

698
00:51:34.079 --> 00:51:37.559
could even do you could take it
to the next level. But I'm really

699
00:51:37.519 --> 00:51:43.719
you know, I'm really excited that
you are a good example of what how

700
00:51:43.760 --> 00:51:46.920
filmmakers can make money on Amazon during
COVID. This is all happening. This

701
00:51:46.960 --> 00:51:51.599
is all happening during COVID. Uh
And what are your plans now? Because

702
00:51:51.679 --> 00:51:54.159
you know you did this all tivot, which is something that unless you know

703
00:51:54.199 --> 00:51:59.440
how to drive traffic. T VOT
is a lost cause unless you can drive

704
00:51:59.480 --> 00:52:02.320
track, I can target an audience
or have an audience to bring along with

705
00:52:02.360 --> 00:52:07.079
you. Yeah, I mean,
I'm gonna keep you know. Sometimes the

706
00:52:07.400 --> 00:52:09.880
sales are down, sometimes they go
up. It's a little bit, you

707
00:52:09.960 --> 00:52:14.679
know, but I'll keep investing a
little. I think I may expand now

708
00:52:14.719 --> 00:52:20.400
to Florida, try to expand to
Orlando, Tampa, you know. But

709
00:52:20.519 --> 00:52:22.840
yeah, I'm gonna keep it.
I actually put you know, I found

710
00:52:22.840 --> 00:52:25.760
the right spot. Now I have
the movie for two ninety nine and fourteen

711
00:52:25.840 --> 00:52:34.440
ninety nine because I feel there's actually
I feel that somehow I'm getting sales without

712
00:52:34.440 --> 00:52:37.760
marketing. Sometimes I think Amazon is
promoting the movie itself. I brought money

713
00:52:37.800 --> 00:52:43.480
for them, so I guess the
the algorithm or whatever. But I would

714
00:52:43.480 --> 00:52:47.559
tell this also going back to the
whole the schuberting and stuff like for me,

715
00:52:50.519 --> 00:52:53.280
I would never put my movie for
free. That's just like, so

716
00:52:53.320 --> 00:52:57.760
you're not gonna put it in asbad
like Amazon price, And I see I

717
00:52:58.199 --> 00:53:00.559
would suggest to everyone, I mean, put ninety nine cents, you know,

718
00:53:00.880 --> 00:53:05.280
like that's that's an okay price if
you have a movie. That unless

719
00:53:06.079 --> 00:53:09.639
unless you really don't care about recouping
your money because it was your own money

720
00:53:09.760 --> 00:53:13.960
or something, and you just want
to get people to see your film.

721
00:53:14.360 --> 00:53:15.559
And in that case, I mean, you know, you can also put

722
00:53:15.559 --> 00:53:19.920
it on YouTube, right if that's
your strung. But if you really have

723
00:53:20.039 --> 00:53:24.519
to make money to pay investors to
recoup some money, forget about SVOD.

724
00:53:24.679 --> 00:53:28.880
Like you're not going to make a
lot of money unless maybe you have it

725
00:53:28.920 --> 00:53:32.039
on I don't know to be like
AVOD at all the places, but just

726
00:53:32.119 --> 00:53:37.920
put it in about about about at
a certain point when you're when your sales

727
00:53:37.920 --> 00:53:39.440
have gotten down to a point,
because like, nobody really makes a whole

728
00:53:39.440 --> 00:53:44.480
lot of money on the spot Amazon
platform anymore. That's pretty much gone.

729
00:53:45.159 --> 00:53:49.880
But a VOD as we speak today
is really I've seen the numbers. I

730
00:53:49.880 --> 00:53:52.480
mean, there's tens of thousands of
dollars being made by certain films and certain

731
00:53:52.519 --> 00:53:58.480
genres. So there is potential there. But I absolutely milk this cow for

732
00:53:58.519 --> 00:54:00.360
as long as you can. AVOD
could wait, it could wait a year,

733
00:54:00.920 --> 00:54:07.119
it could wait two years before before
you go to AVAS. Sorry I

734
00:54:07.159 --> 00:54:10.119
forgot to mention that I actually I
put the film also on film hob now

735
00:54:12.039 --> 00:54:15.679
as VOD because the rest of like
other English speaking countries don't have Tea bod

736
00:54:16.159 --> 00:54:19.639
So I couldn't the rabbit Hole picture, you know, I couldn't put it

737
00:54:19.639 --> 00:54:22.840
on the rest of like Latin America
to say, also because I do have

738
00:54:22.880 --> 00:54:25.599
some Hispanic stars that are well known
in Latin America. So and I have

739
00:54:25.679 --> 00:54:30.880
the movie subtitles. Oh that's something
that actually bothered me too from Amazon that

740
00:54:30.920 --> 00:54:35.559
they didn't let me. They didn't
let me put Spanish subtitles. They don't

741
00:54:35.559 --> 00:54:38.519
have that option, which I thought, like you're missing out, Like,

742
00:54:38.960 --> 00:54:46.239
yeah, they can't deal with that
kind of complexity from the masses. They

743
00:54:46.239 --> 00:54:51.079
can deal with that complexity from distributors
who handle two, three, four hundred

744
00:54:51.119 --> 00:54:54.880
movies and they allow that situation.
It's a completely different business model. Well

745
00:54:54.960 --> 00:54:59.199
no, like if you go and
actually no, no, like Amazon doesn't

746
00:54:59.400 --> 00:55:04.199
doesn't allow how Spanish subtitles on any
film doesn't matter, Like oh, yeah,

747
00:55:04.199 --> 00:55:06.400
now they stopped it. Yeah,
you're right, they did stop the

748
00:55:06.480 --> 00:55:08.360
subtitling. Now it has to be
I think it's I don't know if it's

749
00:55:08.400 --> 00:55:12.199
a legal issue or what, but
I told them, like Netflix has been

750
00:55:12.199 --> 00:55:15.039
doing this for like years, and
like, if you really want to compete

751
00:55:15.079 --> 00:55:20.159
like you're missing on like, you
know, the whole like Hispanic audience in

752
00:55:20.199 --> 00:55:22.159
the United States that would rather,
you know, like my a lot of

753
00:55:22.159 --> 00:55:25.800
my family members, you know,
they I actually put the movie with subtitles

754
00:55:25.960 --> 00:55:29.800
because they understand English. But you
know, you will miss a lot of

755
00:55:29.800 --> 00:55:32.000
little detail. It's not the same
reading it in your first language, you

756
00:55:32.000 --> 00:55:37.280
know. So yeah, that was
one thing, but through film Hub that

757
00:55:37.400 --> 00:55:42.159
now I'm putting it on Latin America. But have you had anything from them

758
00:55:42.239 --> 00:55:45.519
yet? Nothing come in yet?
No, nothing. It's been recent.

759
00:55:45.039 --> 00:55:49.760
It's been recent. I haven't done
any marketing also out there. So I'm

760
00:55:49.800 --> 00:55:52.760
just letting it to see, you
know, see what happens organically, to

761
00:55:52.800 --> 00:55:57.960
see what happens well, keep us
in, keep us updated. In the

762
00:55:57.960 --> 00:56:00.639
film Hub thing, I'm really curious
to see. I haven't heard a lot

763
00:56:00.719 --> 00:56:05.880
of success stories from film Hub,
meaning that filmmaker is actually making a lot

764
00:56:05.920 --> 00:56:09.119
of money. So I'm curious to
see. In theory, he sounds great

765
00:56:09.159 --> 00:56:13.480
in the in the in the the
marketplace sounds great, but I'm curious to

766
00:56:13.519 --> 00:56:16.559
see real hard numbers come in.
But man, you're an inspiration brother,

767
00:56:17.480 --> 00:56:21.079
without question, I'm gonna ask you
a few questions I ask on my guests,

768
00:56:21.639 --> 00:56:23.360
what advice would you give a filmmaker
trying to break into the business today.

769
00:56:28.039 --> 00:56:37.159
Hmm, I would say, focus
on providing value to others, which

770
00:56:37.199 --> 00:56:44.960
is something that you know me as
a director when I started, a lot

771
00:56:45.000 --> 00:56:46.760
of my friends now that work with
me had a really hard time working with

772
00:56:46.760 --> 00:56:52.000
me because I was sort of a
dictator and it was always like, you

773
00:56:52.000 --> 00:56:53.960
know, I would always think of
my movie and this needs to be perfect

774
00:56:54.079 --> 00:56:57.480
because it's my film and my name
is on Is and I'm the director.

775
00:56:57.960 --> 00:57:01.440
And then I was just bring a
lot of suffering really because I would be

776
00:57:01.480 --> 00:57:07.480
self frustrated and stuff. And when
I kind of switched their mentality and started

777
00:57:07.480 --> 00:57:13.599
thinking about being, you know,
a provider's value service to authors, to

778
00:57:13.719 --> 00:57:19.519
the crew. I want the to
really try to have everyone in the crew

779
00:57:19.559 --> 00:57:22.840
to reach their maximum potential. And
the cast. I want the actors to

780
00:57:22.960 --> 00:57:24.440
do the best performance that they can. I want the DP to have the

781
00:57:24.480 --> 00:57:30.559
best images, and I'm just the
catalyst for these people to really push them

782
00:57:30.599 --> 00:57:34.559
hard so they can get there,
you know. And also for the audience

783
00:57:34.599 --> 00:57:37.239
that's gonna watch my movie. It's
not like watch my film, it's like,

784
00:57:37.719 --> 00:57:43.320
how can I really make your time
worth that. You can spend an

785
00:57:43.320 --> 00:57:45.599
hour and a half watching my movie
and you're gonna have a lot of fun.

786
00:57:45.880 --> 00:57:49.400
So I just kind of like switching
that mentality of, you know,

787
00:57:49.440 --> 00:57:53.039
providing value to others. And it
really you can tell when you work with

788
00:57:53.119 --> 00:57:58.119
someone who's just there for a paycheck, you know, and don't I don't

789
00:57:58.159 --> 00:58:00.280
like working with those type of people. I feel. I can see when

790
00:58:00.320 --> 00:58:05.559
there's someone there who obviously I want
to pay everyone, and I think everyone

791
00:58:05.559 --> 00:58:09.320
should get paid, but they're there
because they care about their craft more than

792
00:58:09.480 --> 00:58:13.519
the paycheck, you know. So
I would say that now, and what

793
00:58:13.639 --> 00:58:15.639
is the lesson that took you the
longest to learn, whether in the film

794
00:58:15.679 --> 00:58:27.239
business or in life, uh,
film or or in life, I would

795
00:58:27.280 --> 00:58:34.480
say, Uh, don't take it
personal. That's it. Don't take don't

796
00:58:34.519 --> 00:58:38.039
take film reviews personally. You don't
know who that person is. If they

797
00:58:38.199 --> 00:58:42.960
like if they like happy endings,
then you had a sad ending. Of

798
00:58:43.239 --> 00:58:45.960
course they're gonna hate your movie,
you know, Uh they had. Don't

799
00:58:46.000 --> 00:58:52.039
take personal the film rejection, the
film festival rejections. Maybe they didn't even

800
00:58:52.079 --> 00:58:55.360
watch your film. Maybe that person
had a bad day, God knows.

801
00:58:55.480 --> 00:59:00.840
Right, don't take it personal.
It's it doesn't It doesn't say anything about

802
00:59:00.880 --> 00:59:05.840
the quality of your craft and or
of your film. So that's it,

803
00:59:05.920 --> 00:59:07.480
you know. And then what are
three of your favorite films of all time?

804
00:59:09.719 --> 00:59:14.840
Uh, that's such a tough question. Three that comes to your head

805
00:59:14.920 --> 00:59:20.079
right now? Well, I mean
definitely The Lion King, you know,

806
00:59:20.880 --> 00:59:24.239
as a child and in Cuba,
I would say I think of films in

807
00:59:24.280 --> 00:59:29.800
like different stages of my life,
so I would say definitely as a child,

808
00:59:29.880 --> 00:59:34.920
The Lion King and The gold Rush
from Chaplain. Yeah. Gold Rush.

809
00:59:35.000 --> 00:59:37.719
Yeah, it's a fun movie.
I always love to watching in a

810
00:59:37.760 --> 00:59:42.719
movie. Now as a grown up, I think, you know, I've

811
00:59:42.760 --> 00:59:45.960
seen brilliant films. Uh, you
know a lot of brilliant films. But

812
00:59:46.000 --> 00:59:52.679
I feel that films that like say
that I really saw and where like really

813
00:59:52.800 --> 01:00:00.760
changed my perspective on what a movie
could be. Will be right back after

814
01:00:00.800 --> 01:00:08.280
a word from our sponsor, and
now back to the show that I was

815
01:00:08.320 --> 01:00:13.000
like, I've never seen anything like
this, I would say The Tree of

816
01:00:13.039 --> 01:00:17.760
Life from Terrence Malick in Sinet du
Key, New York. From Charlie Kaufman,

817
01:00:19.400 --> 01:00:22.599
which is which is really funny because
I see Kaufman, which I think,

818
01:00:23.320 --> 01:00:30.559
in my opinion, he's the most
original writer and creator like in Hollywood

819
01:00:30.679 --> 01:00:34.639
when it comes to film, I
think his stories are the most original.

820
01:00:35.239 --> 01:00:38.920
And I see him struggling to make
it film, to get financing, and

821
01:00:39.000 --> 01:00:43.199
I'm like, I mean, if
Kaufman it's like going through this, I'm

822
01:00:43.239 --> 01:00:46.880
okay, you know, it's fine. Exactly now, where can people find

823
01:00:46.920 --> 01:00:51.880
you your movie and your work.
Well, the movie's on Amazon, you

824
01:00:51.920 --> 01:00:55.679
know, on Amazon Video, and
they can find us on you know,

825
01:00:55.800 --> 01:01:01.840
rabbit Hole Pictures, on Instagram,
rabbit Hole Pictures, Rebert Hold Pictures on

826
01:01:01.880 --> 01:01:07.559
Facebook, everywhere, rabbit hople Pictures. Yeah, Ama, thank you so

827
01:01:07.639 --> 01:01:09.719
much for being on the show.
Brother, You're an inspiration. I'm glad

828
01:01:09.800 --> 01:01:15.719
to highlight a success story you know, on Amazon in today's world and TVOD

829
01:01:15.760 --> 01:01:19.880
and everything else. So thank you
so much for coming on and being so

830
01:01:20.000 --> 01:01:22.599
raw and honest with your with your
numbers and your experience. Man, Thank

831
01:01:22.599 --> 01:01:24.400
you, brother, Thank you,
Alex. I hope this really helps a

832
01:01:24.440 --> 01:01:30.840
lot of filmmakers out there, and
you know, pay hustle. You could

833
01:01:30.840 --> 01:01:37.320
hear at the end that we finished
that interview with a thunderous applause background that

834
01:01:37.559 --> 01:01:42.880
lightning strike HAP and wonderful Miami thunderstorms. Oh so well, I want to

835
01:01:42.920 --> 01:01:46.320
thank you. It's my for come
the show and dropping those knowledge bombs on

836
01:01:46.360 --> 01:01:52.000
the tribe and inspiring filmmakers that you
can make money on Amazon, and you

837
01:01:52.079 --> 01:01:58.000
can make money on ti vod,
but it takes work and you really need

838
01:01:58.039 --> 01:02:04.239
to understand what you're doing. In
Ismail is an amazing example of that.

839
01:02:04.639 --> 01:02:07.159
If you want to get links to
anything we talked about in this episode,

840
01:02:07.239 --> 01:02:10.199
including watching his film Death of a
Fool, please head over to the show

841
01:02:10.239 --> 01:02:15.800
notes at Bulletproof Screenwriting dot tv.
Forward slash three sixty five. Thank you

842
01:02:15.840 --> 01:02:19.159
so much for listening to guys.
As always, keep on writing no matter

843
01:02:19.199 --> 01:02:22.159
what. I'll talk to you soon. Thanks for listening to the Bulletproof Screenwriting

844
01:02:22.199 --> 01:02:25.239
podcast at Bulletproofscreenwriting dot tv.