WEBVTT 1 00:00:26.960 --> 00:00:30.239 Hello, and welcome to the show. I'm Martin Willis, your host, 2 00:00:30.519 --> 00:00:35.520 and I want to apologize for last week. I am on the road and 3 00:00:36.079 --> 00:00:40.679 last week at the last minute, the guests had to cancel for a family 4 00:00:40.759 --> 00:00:45.799 situation. So I do apologize to everyone out there for not, you know, 5 00:00:45.880 --> 00:00:51.399 having a show last week. And this week we have Kevin Randall. 6 00:00:52.280 --> 00:00:56.479 Always love having him on the show to get the square scoop of what's happening 7 00:00:56.479 --> 00:01:00.719 around out there and has happened and all. That's always really great to talk 8 00:01:00.759 --> 00:01:04.879 to him. And before that, I have Alejandro Rojas coming up with UFO 9 00:01:06.040 --> 00:01:08.680 updates, and I do want to thank everyone that supports a show. We 10 00:01:08.680 --> 00:01:14.480 couldn't do without you. And I'm here solo with a little tiny computer down 11 00:01:14.480 --> 00:01:18.680 in Florida, and I hope that I'm not going to mess too many things 12 00:01:18.760 --> 00:01:22.840 up. I'll do my best that I can. And Alejandro, welcome to 13 00:01:22.879 --> 00:01:26.439 the show. Hello, Hello, thanks for having me. Is that what 14 00:01:26.560 --> 00:01:30.519 you're orange? I am orange today? Yeah? Huh yeah, with that 15 00:01:30.599 --> 00:01:34.280 on purpose? Or is that just another no, it's the Sunshine State, 16 00:01:34.680 --> 00:01:38.599 Luke you orange? Oh okay, okay, great, No, actually orange, 17 00:01:38.840 --> 00:01:42.840 it's just the camera. Yeah, interesting? Interesting, Yeah, well, 18 00:01:42.959 --> 00:01:46.200 so, yes, I'm doing well, and I hope you're having a 19 00:01:46.200 --> 00:01:49.519 great time. I hear that the weather, it's finally you have the advantage 20 00:01:49.519 --> 00:01:52.840 over me. You've got the sun in the heat, whereas I'm freezing in 21 00:01:53.200 --> 00:01:57.040 uh sixty degree temperature. Oh six of you poor thing. Well it was 22 00:01:57.159 --> 00:02:00.920 ninety today. To me, that's that's a little too warm. That's you 23 00:02:00.959 --> 00:02:04.840 know, it's going to be seven degrees where I lived up in Maine tomorrow. 24 00:02:04.920 --> 00:02:09.439 So yeah, I feel so lucky to escape that. So what's going 25 00:02:09.479 --> 00:02:15.599 on in the UFO world. Well, there's always a lot going on. 26 00:02:15.759 --> 00:02:19.919 So there's a couple of interesting stories here that I wanted to mention. One 27 00:02:19.960 --> 00:02:23.840 of them on Nick Pope posted although he's living here in the US, it's 28 00:02:23.919 --> 00:02:27.879 kind of his Nick of the woods out there in the UK. And I'm 29 00:02:27.960 --> 00:02:30.479 going to And I didn't learn even though you and I had talked about this 30 00:02:30.599 --> 00:02:35.919 earlier, I didn't go edgecpe myself on how to say the names of these 31 00:02:35.960 --> 00:02:39.719 cities like I should have. But the headline is and this is from a 32 00:02:39.800 --> 00:02:46.199 paper called the Gloucestershire Live. And actually this is a paper that I refer 33 00:02:46.240 --> 00:02:50.759 to often because you know the UK just like the US. In these local 34 00:02:50.800 --> 00:02:53.919 papers they write about UFO stories and happenings in their areas quite a bit, 35 00:02:53.960 --> 00:03:00.240 and these guys write about different sightings once in a while as well. This 36 00:03:00.280 --> 00:03:05.479 one is a sighting over the M five, which is a highway that was 37 00:03:05.680 --> 00:03:09.680 headed towards the town of Bristol, and it was seen and reported by pilots, 38 00:03:10.159 --> 00:03:15.400 so very interesting case. It essentially was three orange orbs. But what's 39 00:03:15.439 --> 00:03:22.599 cool about this is Air Midwest actually tweeted about it. They wrote, there 40 00:03:22.639 --> 00:03:25.599 has been a lot of interest in the fact that our pilots observed UFOs last 41 00:03:25.680 --> 00:03:30.479 night during night flying exercises. So here's a brief summary of the situation. 42 00:03:30.960 --> 00:03:36.240 They posted this on February fifteenth. The sighting was on February fourteenth, but 43 00:03:36.400 --> 00:03:40.759 essentially they said last night, at about ten pm south of Glouceshire, there 44 00:03:40.800 --> 00:03:46.159 were airborne unidentified lights. So they talked about those a little bit, just 45 00:03:46.199 --> 00:03:50.120 that they were moving very fast. They sent planes on an intercept course, 46 00:03:50.159 --> 00:03:53.639 but they couldn't catch whatever it was. Now, these weren't jet fighters. 47 00:03:53.680 --> 00:04:00.520 I think these were just regular commercial aircraft. But there's also in this article 48 00:04:00.599 --> 00:04:05.919 on Glacier share Live an account from one of the pilots who just said he 49 00:04:06.000 --> 00:04:12.199 saw two large square orange lights, one on top of the other. They 50 00:04:12.240 --> 00:04:15.919 looked very strange to him. He did not believe they were balloons because of 51 00:04:15.960 --> 00:04:19.120 how fast that they moved. So this is a new kind of ongoing case 52 00:04:19.240 --> 00:04:23.560 in the media in the UK. That's that's pretty interesting. Well, we 53 00:04:23.560 --> 00:04:27.720 actually have someone in the chat room that's actually from Gloucestershire, and that's I 54 00:04:27.800 --> 00:04:30.600 just said it the way it's supposed to be pronounced Gloucestershire. According to him, 55 00:04:30.600 --> 00:04:34.800 he did it phonically in the chat room. Isn't that nice? That's 56 00:04:34.959 --> 00:04:40.879 very nice. Thank you, Gloucestershire. Yeah, and the Gloucester Shore Glacis 57 00:04:40.959 --> 00:04:43.920 shirt glaciershore. I gotta get that because I reference it to him quite a 58 00:04:43.959 --> 00:04:47.439 bit because they have so many EO photo sightings and so that is a yeah, 59 00:04:47.560 --> 00:04:53.160 great story. Yeah, just because we pronounce it correctly doesn't necessarily mean 60 00:04:53.199 --> 00:04:56.079 though that people are going to be able to find it when they look out 61 00:04:56.120 --> 00:04:59.079 there. But you can find it in my social media where I guess I 62 00:04:59.120 --> 00:05:03.000 could spell it quickly. It's g l O U c E s t e 63 00:05:03.480 --> 00:05:08.920 R is the name of the city put r E. Yeah, if you 64 00:05:09.000 --> 00:05:12.560 get the whole name, but if you put Gloucester Shore UFO, you'll find 65 00:05:12.639 --> 00:05:15.680 this story out there if you're opposed to going to my social media. So 66 00:05:15.800 --> 00:05:20.439 that's the first story of the day. Second one, this is kind of 67 00:05:20.600 --> 00:05:29.839 interesting Mensa writing about to the Stars and Luelsondo and the whole a tip situation, 68 00:05:30.800 --> 00:05:34.160 So it's very interesting. Menta of course, is the Intelligent you know 69 00:05:34.399 --> 00:05:39.879 organization. It's a club for people whose IQs are over I think one twenty 70 00:05:40.000 --> 00:05:43.759 four, one forty two, it can't remember exactly which one it is. 71 00:05:44.519 --> 00:05:48.800 They're they're tagline it is where brilliant belong. They're not shy about being proud 72 00:05:48.839 --> 00:05:55.639 of their higher iq s. But they wrote about this case in a very 73 00:05:55.680 --> 00:05:58.920 straightforward way. They kind of just talk about how, you know, there's 74 00:05:58.959 --> 00:06:04.120 been mysteries and science before, and now there are scientists and credible people tackling 75 00:06:04.279 --> 00:06:11.600 this issue. Now that this was kind of all brought together by Tom DeLong, 76 00:06:12.480 --> 00:06:15.680 and that they have this Adam project where they're looking at materials that they 77 00:06:15.800 --> 00:06:19.920 have obtained that they believe may be anomalous. But in particular, they do 78 00:06:20.040 --> 00:06:25.079 get a quote from someone we haven't heard from that often that's part of the 79 00:06:25.600 --> 00:06:30.199 to the Stars group, and that's Steve Justice. He is formally of Lockheed's 80 00:06:30.199 --> 00:06:33.519 skunk Works, and skunk Works is a team that created you know, the 81 00:06:33.600 --> 00:06:36.920 F twenty two raptor, the F thirty five Lightning, the stealth plane, 82 00:06:38.000 --> 00:06:42.519 the U Tube, the SR seventy one. Much of this developed that Area 83 00:06:42.639 --> 00:06:46.560 fifty one. They're the guys who built and were in charge of Area fifty 84 00:06:46.600 --> 00:06:49.000 one. A lot of that craft was inspired by the CIA or projects that 85 00:06:49.120 --> 00:06:55.759 were CIA sponsored, but that also of course led over to Air Force and 86 00:06:56.199 --> 00:07:00.600 other organizations. But so it's incredible that we have this guy with skunk Works 87 00:07:01.240 --> 00:07:04.839 who is working on UFO projects. One of his quotes that I liked, 88 00:07:04.920 --> 00:07:08.920 he said, to the Stars as a group of people who came together to 89 00:07:09.000 --> 00:07:15.360 answer the questions at most of society is afraid to ask. There's this overwhelming 90 00:07:15.519 --> 00:07:20.319 body of evidence that indicates something strange is going on. So essentially making the 91 00:07:20.480 --> 00:07:28.000 argument that UFOs are worthwhile study so really interesting. And then one more thing 92 00:07:28.079 --> 00:07:32.480 gets kind of along the lines is about a TIP and Luelzando is that that 93 00:07:32.800 --> 00:07:38.680 organization that in this MENSA article they mentioned that a TIP no longer exists, 94 00:07:38.720 --> 00:07:42.560 that it went from two thousand and seven to twenty twelve. However, according 95 00:07:42.639 --> 00:07:46.560 to Lou, that is not the case. The organizationization still does exist. 96 00:07:46.639 --> 00:07:49.639 In fact, he said that in the New York Times, but for whatever 97 00:07:49.720 --> 00:07:55.120 reason, the MENSA article didn't allude to that. The DoD did say that 98 00:07:55.360 --> 00:07:59.920 funding was pulled in twenty twelve. However, there's a gentleman, Danny sil 99 00:08:00.160 --> 00:08:03.319 who's got a website called Silver Record, and it's pretty good. He's been 100 00:08:03.399 --> 00:08:07.879 following all of this stuff and he wrote an article recently called A TIP Did 101 00:08:07.000 --> 00:08:11.680 Not End, and essentially he goes over all of the quotes and information around 102 00:08:11.879 --> 00:08:16.519 how a TIP still exists. And Lou told me, and this is a 103 00:08:16.600 --> 00:08:20.439 really I think it's pretty interesting. He told me, not only does it 104 00:08:20.600 --> 00:08:24.879 continue, but that who the people who are running at our very high level. 105 00:08:24.439 --> 00:08:28.680 He talked about kind of some of the ranks, but yeah, very 106 00:08:28.759 --> 00:08:33.360 very high level individuals that are still involved with a TIP. And you know, 107 00:08:33.440 --> 00:08:37.759 it's been debated, but the key players and the people who not only 108 00:08:37.840 --> 00:08:41.919 worked on the program but also started it have claimed, you know, UFOs 109 00:08:41.960 --> 00:08:46.879 were a big part of this program looking into UFO phenomena, including and their 110 00:08:46.919 --> 00:08:52.879 example was a USS Nimit situation. So yeah, so interesting things going on 111 00:08:52.879 --> 00:08:56.759 that is real. That is something. It's it's just you know, I 112 00:08:58.399 --> 00:09:01.240 wonder what it would be so nice to know what Lou knows. You know, 113 00:09:01.679 --> 00:09:05.159 Yes, it was as far as like he was running it and all 114 00:09:05.240 --> 00:09:09.000 that, and you know what, more information, you know, it would 115 00:09:09.000 --> 00:09:13.519 be great if we had all the scoop. And it seems like we may 116 00:09:13.600 --> 00:09:16.759 be getting it slow, you know, spoon fed a little bit here and 117 00:09:16.799 --> 00:09:22.159 there possibly, and you have you told me earlier today that you know, 118 00:09:22.240 --> 00:09:26.519 Lou was going to be on your show and had to call it off for 119 00:09:26.559 --> 00:09:30.960 a couple of weeks and he's involved in something. But you're actually going to 120 00:09:31.000 --> 00:09:35.360 be interviewing him fairly in the next few weeks, right, Yeah, so 121 00:09:35.480 --> 00:09:39.440 we can't do any media interviews for a few weeks. However, Luckily before 122 00:09:39.639 --> 00:09:45.240 that, I am I already planning to meet him one on one, a 123 00:09:45.360 --> 00:09:48.639 meeting we had already pre planned. So he said that he'll give me a 124 00:09:48.679 --> 00:09:52.320 little bit of information, a little bit more that, and some that can 125 00:09:52.480 --> 00:09:58.600 be shared when we do meet, and then once he's cleared to do interviews, 126 00:09:58.639 --> 00:10:01.759 he'll be able to share a lot more about like the current project. 127 00:10:01.440 --> 00:10:05.720 Someone had mentioned before. Tom de Long tweeted that they had some sort of 128 00:10:05.480 --> 00:10:09.200 you know, findings with the Adam project that they'll be able to share in 129 00:10:09.240 --> 00:10:15.120 the future. So we'll be able to get a lot more information out in 130 00:10:15.200 --> 00:10:20.039 a few weeks. So and this project that has you know, essentially delayed 131 00:10:20.120 --> 00:10:26.440 him being able to do my interview, has also delayed the release of information 132 00:10:26.600 --> 00:10:31.320 for quite some time. So they're very excited to be able to share a 133 00:10:31.440 --> 00:10:33.159 lot more about what they've been up to in the last few months. Now. 134 00:10:33.200 --> 00:10:35.840 Some people complain, oh, since they sorry, they made stillment to 135 00:10:35.879 --> 00:10:39.519 promises, but we haven't heard much. But you've got to remember it takes 136 00:10:39.559 --> 00:10:45.000 a long time to investigate this stuff, especially if you're dealing link with materials, 137 00:10:45.039 --> 00:10:48.480 where you have to get things analyzed and then that the analysis the data 138 00:10:48.519 --> 00:10:52.320 to be analyzed by another third party. So it takes a lot of time 139 00:10:52.360 --> 00:10:56.080 to do this. In fact, the SEU which we talked about earlier, 140 00:10:56.120 --> 00:11:00.480 and Kevin Randall's a part of that, the Science Centific Coalition for you Apology, 141 00:11:00.840 --> 00:11:05.039 those guys came out with their Aguadia report. It took them two years 142 00:11:05.200 --> 00:11:07.720 to research that and come out with that report, so well, you know, 143 00:11:09.360 --> 00:11:11.320 I would argue that it hasn't been that. You know, we've gotten 144 00:11:11.360 --> 00:11:16.120 quite a bit in this year or so, but it sounds like there's a 145 00:11:16.120 --> 00:11:20.240 lot more information to come. Yeah, yeah, exciting. This could be 146 00:11:20.360 --> 00:11:22.600 the year. Of course they've been saying that for you know, seventy years. 147 00:11:22.919 --> 00:11:24.840 But anyway, but you know what, you would be right. The 148 00:11:24.960 --> 00:11:28.679 last couple of years, twenty seventeen, we've found out about the Pentagon project 149 00:11:28.799 --> 00:11:31.200 or at least you know, and to the Stars started last year, we 150 00:11:31.279 --> 00:11:37.080 found out tons more about it. So each year twenty seventeen, twenty eighteen 151 00:11:37.200 --> 00:11:41.759 and have been banner years for this this field, and it seems like twenty 152 00:11:41.840 --> 00:11:48.000 nineteen will follow up with that. It's sure could happen. Heym, thank 153 00:11:48.039 --> 00:11:52.399 you very much. Alajundro all right, thank you, and I'll see you 154 00:11:52.480 --> 00:11:58.919 in Roswell Kevin, okay, sound good? All right, I'm getting ready 155 00:11:58.919 --> 00:12:01.759 to bring him in. All right, everyone, so hang in there just 156 00:12:01.919 --> 00:12:09.519 one second. Something's not working here, m okay, obs troubles anyway, 157 00:12:09.919 --> 00:12:13.480 Aljandro, thank you, and we'll talk to you next week. Calculator all 158 00:12:13.559 --> 00:12:18.120 right, all right, so my guest, I've been on the show many, 159 00:12:18.159 --> 00:12:26.279 many times. Kevin Randall. He is a very prominent figure in FO 160 00:12:26.360 --> 00:12:30.600 those of you who are new listeners in the UFO community. He's written over 161 00:12:30.720 --> 00:12:33.120 eighty books. I can't even remember how many books he's written. We'll talk 162 00:12:33.120 --> 00:12:37.799 a little bit about that. He was one of the first people in there 163 00:12:39.240 --> 00:12:43.960 investigating the Roswell incident. He's been writing lately. He's got the go to 164 00:12:43.120 --> 00:12:48.360 blog as far as I'm concerned when it comes to UFOs and getting the straight 165 00:12:48.440 --> 00:12:52.559 scoop. There's many times that I actually go to his blog to understand something 166 00:12:52.639 --> 00:12:56.960 that I'm a little confused about, which is quite often, and it's always 167 00:12:56.960 --> 00:13:01.440 a pleasure to have him on the show. Welcome Kevin. I hate to 168 00:13:01.480 --> 00:13:03.440 correct you at the very beginning of your show. Well, I think you 169 00:13:03.519 --> 00:13:07.639 did that last time, so I'm used to it, Okay, But I 170 00:13:07.720 --> 00:13:11.960 don't know why we're still hung up on this eighty books thing. No I 171 00:13:11.000 --> 00:13:16.080 said, I said, at least yes, Well that eighty books was like 172 00:13:16.159 --> 00:13:18.559 two decades ago. It's like one hundred and twenty five now. So all 173 00:13:18.600 --> 00:13:20.480 right, Well, you're going to get someone in there. They change your 174 00:13:20.519 --> 00:13:24.919 Wikipedia page. I think that's what it's all about. Maybe, Oh, 175 00:13:24.000 --> 00:13:31.480 well information is yeah. Wow. So do you ever take any time off? 176 00:13:31.440 --> 00:13:35.840 Yes, yeah, and most of the time I'm now I'm out snow 177 00:13:35.879 --> 00:13:39.440 blowing the driveway because yeah, we're in the cold weather. You're at ninety 178 00:13:39.480 --> 00:13:43.200 degrees. We'll be lucky. We'll beat about one two below zero tonight. 179 00:13:43.559 --> 00:13:48.720 Ah wow, yikes. Well that's only temporarily. I have to go back 180 00:13:48.759 --> 00:13:52.759 to the snow soon. But anyway, So Kevin, let's see, I 181 00:13:52.799 --> 00:13:56.600 think it's been I think you were on last July or something like that. 182 00:13:56.879 --> 00:14:01.440 I can't remember exactly when. And uh so there's always something happening. And 183 00:14:01.679 --> 00:14:09.320 uh, I see that lately you've been writing your opinion on the new Project 184 00:14:09.399 --> 00:14:16.279 Bluebook History Channels Project Bluebook and interviewing. Um, you know certain people involved 185 00:14:16.279 --> 00:14:22.879 in that, including m. Paul Heinik and also someone involved with the not 186 00:14:24.039 --> 00:14:28.399 the History Channel, but that was also involved in creating the show. Right. 187 00:14:28.480 --> 00:14:33.519 Well, the guy is the senior vice president for Arts and Entertainment Network, 188 00:14:33.879 --> 00:14:37.360 which owns History Channels. I see, right, he's a senior vice 189 00:14:37.440 --> 00:14:39.879 president for scripted show so he was kind of one of the big wheels in 190 00:14:41.120 --> 00:14:46.320 getting a program to the air. I guess, So, what do you 191 00:14:46.840 --> 00:14:52.039 you know, I personally really liked the show. I know that it's you 192 00:14:52.080 --> 00:14:54.320 know, there's a lot of people grumbling in the UFO community because of the 193 00:14:54.440 --> 00:15:01.600 facts aren't exactly you know, it's a it's a show based on you know, 194 00:15:01.679 --> 00:15:05.440 it says based on the truth, but sometimes it's a little bit loose 195 00:15:05.840 --> 00:15:09.720 and people are you know, people that are the hardcore UFO people that want 196 00:15:09.799 --> 00:15:13.840 the straight scooper a little bit upset about that. But what is your philosophy 197 00:15:13.879 --> 00:15:20.159 in general about how it's going. I tuned in, I think the first 198 00:15:20.200 --> 00:15:26.120 week to hate it and got sucked into it and realize that if you can 199 00:15:26.159 --> 00:15:30.279 separate the drama from the fact, and it's when you say it's based on 200 00:15:30.440 --> 00:15:33.639 real events, it's really loosely based on real events. But if you can 201 00:15:33.679 --> 00:15:37.799 separate the two things that this is a drama, they're not making a documentary, 202 00:15:39.639 --> 00:15:43.679 and just get into it, then I find it quite enjoyable. And 203 00:15:43.840 --> 00:15:48.000 one of the questions that came up first was I wondered how Jael and Heineck 204 00:15:48.080 --> 00:15:50.799 would have felt by the way he's betrayed in the program. And my thoughts 205 00:15:50.840 --> 00:15:54.879 says, well, there's Heinick kids, what do they think? And I 206 00:15:54.919 --> 00:15:56.960 got in touch with Paul Heineck to ask him, and he said, well, 207 00:15:58.000 --> 00:16:00.360 my dad would have liked the show. He'd probably got himself a big 208 00:16:00.440 --> 00:16:03.039 ball of popcorn, put his feet up and watched the show and had a 209 00:16:03.120 --> 00:16:07.080 great time with it. So I'm thinking, if the Heineck family is on 210 00:16:07.279 --> 00:16:11.679 board with the program, I can't dislike it because of the way Heineck is 211 00:16:11.720 --> 00:16:17.399 portrayed in the program, because the family doesn't mind. And yeah, I 212 00:16:17.440 --> 00:16:19.080 mean I can. I could pick it apart and I've done a little bit 213 00:16:19.159 --> 00:16:25.000 of that. The military stuff is really horrendlessly portrayed. They don't know how 214 00:16:25.080 --> 00:16:30.240 to salute, they don't understand military protocol, they don't understand how things developed 215 00:16:30.279 --> 00:16:33.679 in the military. All of that stuff, which you could fix without spending 216 00:16:33.679 --> 00:16:40.159 any money at all, insult you know. In fact, I told our 217 00:16:40.240 --> 00:16:45.480 turo in Terion, our turin Terian, he's the senior vice president for Scripto 218 00:16:45.519 --> 00:16:51.240 program. I told him when I had him on my show that the general 219 00:16:51.360 --> 00:16:55.960 in it was wearying a Air Force Commendation medal, and I said that didn't 220 00:16:55.960 --> 00:16:59.720 come into being until nineteen fifty eight, so he shouldn't be wearing that. 221 00:17:00.240 --> 00:17:03.360 And I'm thinking I'm probably like one of three people that would have caught that. 222 00:17:03.000 --> 00:17:07.799 Uh huh, well, you know, I mean, I'm kind of 223 00:17:07.039 --> 00:17:11.279 it's kind of difficult for people to watch, you know, any vintage show 224 00:17:11.359 --> 00:17:14.240 with me because I'm a you know, I'm an appraiser and I'm always looking 225 00:17:14.319 --> 00:17:17.319 for you know, mistakes and movies. I do this all the time. 226 00:17:17.359 --> 00:17:21.599 It's just a bad habit. And their sets are pretty good. I mean, 227 00:17:21.680 --> 00:17:25.680 they're they're they're they're doing pretty well. Um, you know as far 228 00:17:25.759 --> 00:17:32.079 as dating the vintage, um for everything else. But you know, I'm 229 00:17:32.160 --> 00:17:36.960 surprised that they don't have an exact uh you know, as far as consulting 230 00:17:37.039 --> 00:17:40.720 goes um, when you're telling me all these different things. In the military, 231 00:17:40.799 --> 00:17:45.279 they must have some type of advisor. But uh uh it's it's yeah, 232 00:17:45.319 --> 00:17:48.640 they're missing some things that sounds like, but it's really not there. 233 00:17:48.759 --> 00:17:52.759 Man. It's everybody in Hollywood doesn't understand military protocol. They don't understand when 234 00:17:52.839 --> 00:17:57.000 you salute, they don't understand the general. For example, military protocol says 235 00:17:57.000 --> 00:18:00.400 you don't refer to a general as sir, you call it general. Most 236 00:18:00.440 --> 00:18:03.319 people in the military, when they're addressing a general, they will say sir. 237 00:18:03.480 --> 00:18:07.680 I always went out of my way to say general to them and see 238 00:18:07.680 --> 00:18:11.599 if anybody would get mad at me about that. But I mean, if 239 00:18:11.640 --> 00:18:15.279 you haven't been in the military, spend time in the military, some of 240 00:18:15.319 --> 00:18:18.359 these things are very hard to understand. The protocol for saluting, for example, 241 00:18:18.519 --> 00:18:21.880 you don't salute on the flight line. Why because there's a lot of 242 00:18:21.960 --> 00:18:25.039 dangerous stuff going on in the flight line. And you don't wear your cover 243 00:18:25.160 --> 00:18:26.279 on the flight line, meaning your hat. You don't wear it on the 244 00:18:26.319 --> 00:18:30.400 flight line because they blow off and get sucked into the engines and blow them 245 00:18:30.519 --> 00:18:33.319 up. So there's all these little things like that. But on the other 246 00:18:33.359 --> 00:18:37.039 side, when you look at it from a perspective of having served in the 247 00:18:37.079 --> 00:18:41.559 military, some people do that sort of thing. They don't understand they're new 248 00:18:41.599 --> 00:18:45.000 to the military, or they forget about it, or they're not used to 249 00:18:45.039 --> 00:18:48.599 being around the aircraft and that sort of thing. You know, there were 250 00:18:48.640 --> 00:18:55.079 things we did as a pilot, we did that well. The best example 251 00:18:55.319 --> 00:19:00.200 is I was a ward officer, which is a rank between the top king 252 00:19:00.240 --> 00:19:03.480 sergeants and lowest officers, and one day my coal pilot was the first lieutenant 253 00:19:03.519 --> 00:19:07.680 well on the ground, he outranked me, but in the aircraft I outranked 254 00:19:07.799 --> 00:19:11.480 him. We were flying a colonel around to check on various fire support bases 255 00:19:11.920 --> 00:19:15.799 and the colonel refused to talk to me. He would talk to the first 256 00:19:15.880 --> 00:19:18.680 lieutenant, and the lieutenant would point to me. He says, he's the 257 00:19:18.720 --> 00:19:22.359 aircraft commander. You've got to tell him. And so I mean, that's 258 00:19:22.480 --> 00:19:26.240 kind of something that is a little bit bizarre to aviation, where you would 259 00:19:26.279 --> 00:19:33.359 have the junior officer actually being the aircraft commander and the senior, more senior 260 00:19:33.440 --> 00:19:37.839 officer being the coal pilot. And at one point we landed outside a fire 261 00:19:37.880 --> 00:19:41.359 support base and I wasn't going to stay out there with the aircraft because we 262 00:19:41.440 --> 00:19:45.200 were outside the wire and I wasn't in a safe place to be. So 263 00:19:45.319 --> 00:19:48.000 we walked inside. We had the guy who's sergeant major with us, and 264 00:19:48.160 --> 00:19:51.319 he saw the colonel walking to the aircraft. He said, we got to 265 00:19:51.400 --> 00:19:52.599 hurry. The colonel is going to the aircraft, and I said he it's 266 00:19:52.640 --> 00:19:59.759 not going any place without us. So, you know, but that sort 267 00:19:59.799 --> 00:20:02.440 of being, you know, I look for that, but I understand that 268 00:20:02.519 --> 00:20:07.200 Hollywood just doesn't get it. So I suggested to him they find a military 269 00:20:07.279 --> 00:20:10.119 consultant, and they wouldn't really have to be somebody that was there all the 270 00:20:10.200 --> 00:20:11.680 time. They could do it via skype, called the guy and says, 271 00:20:11.720 --> 00:20:15.720 this is a uniform set up properly and that sort of thing. Yeah, 272 00:20:15.799 --> 00:20:21.079 yeah, yeah, I wouldn't be surprised. And for the people that don't 273 00:20:21.200 --> 00:20:23.720 know this, they just they just got an okay for a season two. 274 00:20:25.799 --> 00:20:30.039 So yes, it's going to be going another season. So those out there 275 00:20:30.119 --> 00:20:32.960 that hate you are going to have to hate it a little more. Well, 276 00:20:33.039 --> 00:20:34.799 the other thing, the other thing he pointed out is they didn't know 277 00:20:34.880 --> 00:20:37.839 how long the show was going to last, meaning they were going to go 278 00:20:37.960 --> 00:20:42.559 for ten episodes, but if they expanded beyond that, then there were things 279 00:20:42.880 --> 00:20:47.079 they could do. But they didn't know that. So when they began, 280 00:20:47.279 --> 00:20:49.559 they have a character named Quinn and who he's sort of an ed Ruple type 281 00:20:49.599 --> 00:20:52.799 guy, and the way it was explained to me said, but we don't 282 00:20:53.119 --> 00:20:56.880 we didn't know where we're going to go on and if we had Rupled in 283 00:20:56.920 --> 00:20:59.200 there at the beginning, and then of course he was only there for a 284 00:20:59.240 --> 00:21:02.119 short time. Then we move into like Sneider and I forget the other guy's 285 00:21:02.240 --> 00:21:07.160 name, who were rapidly anti UFO and or lack of daisical in the job. 286 00:21:07.240 --> 00:21:11.759 So they didn't care. So they created this Quinn guy that trying to 287 00:21:11.880 --> 00:21:15.960 take the role of the Air Force officer running the well because they're all over 288 00:21:17.000 --> 00:21:21.759 the time frame as well run the Air Force end of it. And then 289 00:21:21.799 --> 00:21:25.880 of course Heineck started at the very beginning and goes up into the nineteen sixties 290 00:21:25.960 --> 00:21:29.640 with his consulting work with Project Bluebook. But like I said, yeah, 291 00:21:30.359 --> 00:21:33.960 the other thing I remember is growing up as a kid, my mother told 292 00:21:33.000 --> 00:21:37.440 me that George Custer had been promoted to brigadier general by mistake. And if 293 00:21:37.480 --> 00:21:41.039 you go back and you read the Civil War history, you understand, no, 294 00:21:41.200 --> 00:21:47.720 he wasn't promoted by mistake. That the academy graduates. As the Federal 295 00:21:47.880 --> 00:21:52.599 Army expanded with all these volunteer and militia regiments that were brought in from the 296 00:21:52.680 --> 00:21:57.960 State States regiments, they were putting active duty officers in charge, and so 297 00:21:59.480 --> 00:22:03.799 I think Custer had been a captain and they they appointed him in charge of 298 00:22:03.880 --> 00:22:07.799 the Michigan Brigade, which called for a brigadier general. So he was promoted 299 00:22:07.799 --> 00:22:11.839 to brigadier general because he was now the commander of the Michigan Brigade. The 300 00:22:12.039 --> 00:22:15.119 idea that he was promoted by mistake comes from the movie They Died with their 301 00:22:15.119 --> 00:22:21.920 boots on, and there was the idea was the Michigan Well he had Custer 302 00:22:21.960 --> 00:22:23.480 had taken a horse in the in the show taken a horse, and they 303 00:22:23.519 --> 00:22:26.240 were starting a letter to him, you know, due to Captain Custer, 304 00:22:26.400 --> 00:22:30.279 you know, you took the horse bringing back and they didn't get that far, 305 00:22:30.319 --> 00:22:34.799 and so we need a brigadier from the Michigan Brigade. So it's the 306 00:22:36.039 --> 00:22:37.240 guy just picked up a piece of paper and started riding on it and the 307 00:22:37.519 --> 00:22:41.319 adjutant signed it and it was two Custer. So he became a brigadier general 308 00:22:41.400 --> 00:22:45.279 by a mistake. But that's really not the way it happened in real honest, 309 00:22:45.319 --> 00:22:48.319 the good this history. Yeah, so, I mean, but the 310 00:22:48.359 --> 00:22:52.000 point is you look at the stories that you see on television. You see 311 00:22:52.039 --> 00:22:56.559 are the movies, and they're based on real events. They compressed it, 312 00:22:56.720 --> 00:23:03.519 They combined kara victors, they switch events around, so it's a much more 313 00:23:03.640 --> 00:23:07.039 dramatic thing. And if you look at the Project Blue Book show, you 314 00:23:07.480 --> 00:23:12.319 notice they go from like nineteen forty eight with the Gorman siding to nineteen fifty 315 00:23:12.359 --> 00:23:15.279 one, which was illubic lights. I think they did oh the Flatwood Monster 316 00:23:15.440 --> 00:23:19.279 nineteen fifty two. Then they're back into nineteen forty eight. So their timeline. 317 00:23:19.279 --> 00:23:23.400 If you're following the timeline, it doesn't work. But there's all events 318 00:23:23.440 --> 00:23:30.000 that had to do with Project Bluebook or the official Air Force investigations. You 319 00:23:30.079 --> 00:23:33.400 look at all of that sort of thing, and you're looking at a drama 320 00:23:33.480 --> 00:23:37.160 as opposed to a documentary, and you have to keep that in mind. 321 00:23:37.519 --> 00:23:41.640 And I think the people who are really annoyed about the program are looking We're 322 00:23:41.680 --> 00:23:47.000 looking for a documentary as opposed to a drama. Yes, yeah, that's 323 00:23:47.000 --> 00:23:49.759 what That's what I'm getting out of it as well. And we're going to 324 00:23:51.640 --> 00:23:55.720 run to break here. And so this is Martin Willis. My guest tonight 325 00:23:56.359 --> 00:24:03.359 is Kevin Randall, and we will be right back. All right, we 326 00:24:03.559 --> 00:24:08.519 are back, and my guest is Kevin Rindall, and we are talking Project 327 00:24:08.720 --> 00:24:15.000 blue Book. So Kevin, about the you know, people getting the bits 328 00:24:15.000 --> 00:24:22.359 and pieces of a of a real story. And I noticed on your website 329 00:24:22.759 --> 00:24:26.599 you go into the details of certain stories. Do you think that this is 330 00:24:26.720 --> 00:24:32.839 a this is a um in a way also a good thing that because my 331 00:24:33.319 --> 00:24:37.880 personality is if I watch something on TV or a movie or you know, 332 00:24:38.240 --> 00:24:42.039 wherever I watch it, I like to do research if I'm really interested in 333 00:24:42.119 --> 00:24:48.039 the topic and interested in what actually happened. Anytime I see something that's based 334 00:24:48.119 --> 00:24:49.559 on you know, fact, I want to know the facts. So I 335 00:24:49.640 --> 00:24:52.720 do all my research, and uh, I love doing that. I don't 336 00:24:52.720 --> 00:24:56.559 know if anyone else is like me, but do think overall that people are 337 00:24:56.640 --> 00:25:00.440 going to be out there, you know, looking into what real happened in 338 00:25:00.519 --> 00:25:07.720 these cases. I put up on the blog on my blog www dot Kevin 339 00:25:07.759 --> 00:25:14.680 rendaldt blogspot dot com. I snuck it in there. You know, it's 340 00:25:14.839 --> 00:25:17.799 the story. You can figure out what case they're really talking about, even 341 00:25:17.839 --> 00:25:22.519 though they don't, you know, like the Gorman dog fight that was they 342 00:25:22.559 --> 00:25:26.359 called it the Fuller. Fuller was the name of the pilot, and so 343 00:25:26.519 --> 00:25:30.519 I put up on my blog the real facts as it developed out of that 344 00:25:30.680 --> 00:25:33.559 specific case. And some of the explanations have gone longer, but I know 345 00:25:33.680 --> 00:25:40.160 that people have come to the blog to look at that and get the story 346 00:25:40.279 --> 00:25:45.079 as it truly transpired. And I think that's one of the things I thought 347 00:25:45.200 --> 00:25:48.240 was was a good thing for it. It gets people interested in UFOs. 348 00:25:48.240 --> 00:25:52.960 And I'm the same way. If I see something on television or I read 349 00:25:52.079 --> 00:25:56.400 something like that, I go to various sources to see if I can figure 350 00:25:56.440 --> 00:26:00.079 out what the real story is and where we are on on that. So 351 00:26:00.160 --> 00:26:03.519 I think we're bringing people into the UFO field who may not have been interested 352 00:26:03.559 --> 00:26:06.279 and say, well, this is based on real facts. What are the 353 00:26:06.359 --> 00:26:08.640 real facts? And if they look at it the end of the program, 354 00:26:10.200 --> 00:26:12.000 they take like thirty seconds to give you some of the real facts. But 355 00:26:12.119 --> 00:26:17.119 if you don't catch that, and it's very very minimal what you get. 356 00:26:17.319 --> 00:26:19.039 So if you type in Lubbic Lights, for example, I think you come 357 00:26:19.079 --> 00:26:22.960 to my blog or you go to a lot of other sites that can give 358 00:26:22.000 --> 00:26:27.559 you a more expanded explanation of what the Lubbic Lights case was really all about. 359 00:26:27.680 --> 00:26:33.839 So I think it's a good thing and that we're they are able to 360 00:26:33.799 --> 00:26:37.359 interest people in u folology who may not have taken an interest in it before 361 00:26:37.359 --> 00:26:41.440 the program aired, and we should make it. We should make a point 362 00:26:41.480 --> 00:26:44.759 here that when we say Project Blue Book, we're talking about the television series 363 00:26:45.160 --> 00:26:48.759 as opposed to the actual Air Force investigation, which was also cleverly called Project 364 00:26:48.799 --> 00:26:56.920 blue Book. So you know there is a distinction there right right and when 365 00:26:56.519 --> 00:27:03.440 Project blue Book ended, and and you know, as far as we know, 366 00:27:04.079 --> 00:27:10.880 you know, there's bits and pieces of the files out there. Does 367 00:27:10.920 --> 00:27:15.480 anyone happen to know or do you happen to know if there's if they destroyed 368 00:27:15.480 --> 00:27:18.680 a lot of their files or perhaps are archives somewhere. Do you know any 369 00:27:18.720 --> 00:27:25.240 of that that situation, I know everything. That's why you're in the show. 370 00:27:25.559 --> 00:27:32.640 Yeah. Absolutely. What happened is as they were cleaning out the offices 371 00:27:32.640 --> 00:27:36.559 in nineteen sixty nine, I interviewed a guy named Carmen Morano who was technically 372 00:27:36.599 --> 00:27:38.880 the last officer in charge of Blue Book, and it kind of evolved to 373 00:27:40.000 --> 00:27:42.480 him. He was a first lieutenant and his job was to get rid of 374 00:27:42.519 --> 00:27:45.079 the stuff, and he thought a lot of it should be saved, so 375 00:27:45.279 --> 00:27:51.599 he saved it himself. Other they did put it together into an archive. 376 00:27:51.680 --> 00:27:55.759 It went to Actuell Air Force Base, which was the Air Force Archives was 377 00:27:55.799 --> 00:27:59.559 there at one point and it probably still there, and then it went to 378 00:27:59.599 --> 00:28:03.559 the last smart Cars. What we what happened was they had all of this 379 00:28:03.720 --> 00:28:07.440 material. Jack Webb was going to do a program called Project UFO, which 380 00:28:07.519 --> 00:28:17.480 is essentially Project Bluebook, and he paid to have the files microfilmed, so 381 00:28:17.880 --> 00:28:22.160 Air Force officers went through them and took out the names of everybody. It 382 00:28:22.319 --> 00:28:26.000 redacted an awful lot of the stuff. I had been to the Project Bluebook 383 00:28:26.000 --> 00:28:29.240 files at Maxwell Air Force Base right after they released, and that hadn't happened 384 00:28:29.319 --> 00:28:33.799 yet. Files weren't redacted. One of the things that Bob Cornett, I'd 385 00:28:33.839 --> 00:28:36.759 gone down there with a friend of mine, Bob Cornette and I did was 386 00:28:36.880 --> 00:28:41.119 we wrote down all the cases, all the unidentified with the names. We 387 00:28:41.160 --> 00:28:45.079 could put the names back into the unidentified cases. If you look at the 388 00:28:45.119 --> 00:28:48.440 case files on some of the some of the cases, there'll be newspaper clippings 389 00:28:48.480 --> 00:28:52.000 at the end. Those weren't redacted, so you could put the names back 390 00:28:52.079 --> 00:28:55.839 there. And the best one I saw was they had done an interview with 391 00:28:55.920 --> 00:28:59.440 Kenneth Arnold about his siding. There was a telephone interview and they had the 392 00:28:59.480 --> 00:29:03.440 initials of the officer and Kenneth Arnold ka. They'd gone through and they had 393 00:29:03.480 --> 00:29:07.720 crossed out all the ka's throughout the entire transcript and on the front page in 394 00:29:08.359 --> 00:29:12.519 letters. It had to be a half inch high grease paincil pencil has said 395 00:29:12.880 --> 00:29:18.640 arnold case, so you knew what it was all about. The point simply 396 00:29:18.759 --> 00:29:21.160 is to answer your question. Yeah, the stuff was saved. Carmen Marndal 397 00:29:21.240 --> 00:29:26.880 saved a lot of stuff that was not classified that had been used by various 398 00:29:26.960 --> 00:29:30.000 individuals and desk drowds as opposed to the official filing cabinets. The stuff has 399 00:29:30.000 --> 00:29:33.519 all been microfilms. You can find it on the internet. I've got a 400 00:29:33.559 --> 00:29:37.160 complete set of microfilms and I've got pretty much the whole thing on digital copy 401 00:29:37.200 --> 00:29:41.359 as well, so I can search stuff pretty easily. Fold three has the 402 00:29:41.480 --> 00:29:48.680 stuff their Fold three is a history site you can join for free and access 403 00:29:48.799 --> 00:29:53.880 the Project Bluebook files because they're public records, so you can access there, 404 00:29:55.440 --> 00:29:56.599 so you can see a lot of the stuff. So the stuff is there. 405 00:29:57.799 --> 00:30:06.799 Morano. Oh. The interesting story. Guy named Rob Mercer would go 406 00:30:06.960 --> 00:30:11.720 to would go to Craigslist to look to see if anybody put it in the 407 00:30:11.880 --> 00:30:15.799 UFO stuff up and he found somebody who was selling a box of Project blue 408 00:30:15.839 --> 00:30:19.319 Book material and he spent one hundred dollars to see what it was, and 409 00:30:19.480 --> 00:30:26.039 it was most of the files duplicate files of the Lone Zamora siding from Skoro 410 00:30:26.079 --> 00:30:33.839 of nineteen sixty four, and he talked to the guy who who had found 411 00:30:33.880 --> 00:30:36.000 the box. He said the guy had said, well, I was at 412 00:30:36.079 --> 00:30:38.759 a garage sale. I was buying this wood. They paid him that. 413 00:30:40.039 --> 00:30:42.039 They told me to clean it out, and I came to this box of 414 00:30:42.240 --> 00:30:47.240 UFO stuff and they didn't know who who belonged to or anything else. So 415 00:30:47.279 --> 00:30:48.960 I put it up on eBay. Mercer bought it. Mercer, through a 416 00:30:49.039 --> 00:30:52.480 wonderful piece of detective work, was able to trace the box back to the 417 00:30:52.599 --> 00:30:56.359 house, learned who to own the house, which was Carmen Morano, the 418 00:30:56.720 --> 00:31:00.599 last guy to be in charge of Project Blue Book. Traced him to his 419 00:31:00.720 --> 00:31:04.200 home and talked to him and found out there was additional stuff that Morano had 420 00:31:04.279 --> 00:31:07.400 saved. Hadn't looked at it in decades. He says, you can have 421 00:31:07.480 --> 00:31:11.480 it if you want. So Mercery got all of this stuff. But the 422 00:31:11.559 --> 00:31:15.920 interesting thing is, so you can compare the I guess you can say, 423 00:31:15.960 --> 00:31:21.000 sort of the unofficial documents from Blue Book with the official files and see where 424 00:31:21.000 --> 00:31:23.720 there are gaps and where there are changes and things like that. But that's 425 00:31:23.720 --> 00:31:26.599 a long winded to say, Yeah, the Project blue Book stuff exists, 426 00:31:27.319 --> 00:31:30.759 and I think most of it exists. I don't think they got a lot 427 00:31:30.920 --> 00:31:32.480 rid of a lot of it. They got a rid of some of the 428 00:31:32.559 --> 00:31:37.920 stuff in the beginning. We know based on correspondence. We know based on 429 00:31:37.160 --> 00:31:44.400 testimony, for example, that in nineteen forty seven, nineteen forty seven, 430 00:31:44.960 --> 00:31:49.480 the US government, the US military was interested in the ghost rockets in over 431 00:31:49.599 --> 00:31:55.119 Scandinavia and they gathered a lot of that material. It does not appear in 432 00:31:55.200 --> 00:31:57.960 the Project Bluebook files, although there are references to it in the blue Book 433 00:31:59.000 --> 00:32:02.440 files. So it's some point they took out and destroyed all that material about 434 00:32:04.720 --> 00:32:08.200 the ghost rockets, and this was done probably early on in the investigation. 435 00:32:08.799 --> 00:32:15.359 There are other things. There are cases referenced in the final reports of Sign 436 00:32:15.480 --> 00:32:19.480 and Grudge, but the cases aren't in the Project blue Book files and there's 437 00:32:19.519 --> 00:32:22.880 nothing about them in the Bluebook files. Yet they're referenced in these the Grudge 438 00:32:22.920 --> 00:32:25.160 reports. So you know, there were documents created about that, and the 439 00:32:25.279 --> 00:32:30.279 documents have sense disappeared, And if you go through the index of Project Bluebook, 440 00:32:30.319 --> 00:32:34.079 there's any Especially in the beginning, there's a lot of files that say 441 00:32:34.160 --> 00:32:37.119 case missing, case missing, case missing, So at some point they had 442 00:32:37.160 --> 00:32:42.799 cleaned the files out to get to purge them, and that material has gone 443 00:32:43.079 --> 00:32:45.200 gone forever, although we know there's hints to where the case was and the 444 00:32:45.279 --> 00:32:47.519 data the case, so we can kind of go back and put some of 445 00:32:47.599 --> 00:32:54.920 that stuff together now for the I think it would be kind of fun to 446 00:32:55.079 --> 00:33:00.920 do this one thing for the listener out there that actually watched the show on 447 00:33:01.079 --> 00:33:07.200 say the Flatwoods Monster, and talk about the differences. I know that you 448 00:33:07.359 --> 00:33:10.599 wrote a blog about this, so if you wouldn't mind to touch on some 449 00:33:10.720 --> 00:33:17.680 of the differences between what the show portrayed in what actually happened. Well, 450 00:33:17.720 --> 00:33:22.119 the one thing that bothered me most about that was that you seem to have 451 00:33:22.400 --> 00:33:28.240 the townspeople up in arms like the farmers or the townspeople in the Frankenstein movie. 452 00:33:28.680 --> 00:33:31.039 You know, they got their torches and their pitchforks and they're storming the 453 00:33:31.160 --> 00:33:36.240 castle because doctor Frankenstein has created this monster. And you get this sort of 454 00:33:36.400 --> 00:33:39.680 idea in the Flatwoods case that the people are there with their shotguns and they're 455 00:33:39.720 --> 00:33:44.599 really annoyed about the story of the monster. Well, that never really happened. 456 00:33:45.279 --> 00:33:51.599 The townspeople did come to Kathleen maythhouse he was one of the people involved 457 00:33:51.640 --> 00:33:53.720 in seeing the thing, to talk to her, and then they went out 458 00:33:53.759 --> 00:33:58.119 in search for the monster from that point, but there was no kind of 459 00:33:58.279 --> 00:34:01.200 conflict between the townspeople and the people who had seen the UFO, And that 460 00:34:01.319 --> 00:34:06.839 was the one thing that really bothered me about it. The explanation they come 461 00:34:06.920 --> 00:34:07.960 up with the end. The Air Force shows, well, it's an owl 462 00:34:08.719 --> 00:34:13.800 with the big eyes on a tree that had been kind of burned by something, 463 00:34:14.280 --> 00:34:15.960 and that was kind of the Air Force explanation, and the way they 464 00:34:16.000 --> 00:34:20.760 showed it in the program kind of made sense because it really did sort of 465 00:34:21.280 --> 00:34:23.320 look like a monster, but it really was an owl in a tree. 466 00:34:24.280 --> 00:34:30.119 I'm not sure that that's a legitimate explanation, but they take they take a 467 00:34:30.159 --> 00:34:32.639 lot of liberties with the case. You know, they changed the name of 468 00:34:32.719 --> 00:34:37.719 the people obviously. I think at the end of that case as somebody committed 469 00:34:37.760 --> 00:34:42.840 suicide because they wouldn't listen to her, she jumped out of the hospital and 470 00:34:43.000 --> 00:34:45.639 that sort of thing that those things didn't happen. But we're also they're also 471 00:34:45.719 --> 00:34:52.000 creating a drama here, and you know, I thought that was a little 472 00:34:52.000 --> 00:34:57.480 bit over the top, but it was part of the drama. So you 473 00:34:57.559 --> 00:35:00.880 know, the case was, it really didn't have the conf between the towns 474 00:35:00.960 --> 00:35:04.320 people. There was a certain amount of ridicule directed at the people that saw 475 00:35:04.400 --> 00:35:07.400 the UFO or or what the monster, that sort of thing, but you 476 00:35:07.519 --> 00:35:13.679 get that in any UFO case. Now there's a great deal of ridicule directed 477 00:35:13.719 --> 00:35:16.599 at people who report that sort of thing, you know, And you look 478 00:35:16.639 --> 00:35:22.800 at the mainstream media and their idea is and it's changing now. I see 479 00:35:22.800 --> 00:35:28.159 them being much more consistent with their reporting, much more accurate with the reporting 480 00:35:28.199 --> 00:35:30.719 it. But for the longest time, it was the idea that I'm too 481 00:35:30.800 --> 00:35:36.159 sophisticated to believe in flying saucers, but I'll let you ramble on and then 482 00:35:36.199 --> 00:35:39.119 I'll make fun of you when we're done here. And you would see that 483 00:35:39.280 --> 00:35:44.599 in the local media doing UFO stores and that sort of thing. And the 484 00:35:44.679 --> 00:35:49.119 one that really cracked me up was these two guys in New Jersey tried to 485 00:35:49.199 --> 00:35:52.760 create a UFO siding by attaching flares to a balloon because you wanted wanted to 486 00:35:52.800 --> 00:35:59.440 believe to prove that uf own investigators and researchers were credulous, and the witnesses 487 00:35:59.480 --> 00:36:02.360 didn't know what they talked about. When you watched the stories as they unfolded 488 00:36:02.400 --> 00:36:07.920 on the TV, you'd see the witnesses actually being very credible, explaining exactly 489 00:36:07.960 --> 00:36:09.400 what they see, and you saw a reporter at one point saying, well, 490 00:36:09.599 --> 00:36:13.280 the UFO seems to be its lights seemed to be flashing, and the 491 00:36:13.519 --> 00:36:15.920 and the woman they were interview said no, no, it was passing behind 492 00:36:15.960 --> 00:36:19.440 a tree and it was winter time and at nighttime, so you didn't really 493 00:36:19.480 --> 00:36:21.880 see the tree, but you saw the lights blinking and she was able to 494 00:36:21.920 --> 00:36:23.280 explain what that was. I thought, well, that's very good. She's 495 00:36:23.320 --> 00:36:28.480 explaining exactly what was going on. And these two guys were attempting to create 496 00:36:28.519 --> 00:36:31.599 this. But the one that got to me was the reporter going to a 497 00:36:31.639 --> 00:36:35.679 little girl eating a lollipop and says, what do you think about the aliens? 498 00:36:36.039 --> 00:36:37.920 I think nobody said a word about aliens. Nobody said a word about 499 00:36:37.960 --> 00:36:42.000 anything. And then the person you will go interview with some seven year old 500 00:36:42.079 --> 00:36:45.000 girl with a lollipop. You can't it can't interview a UFOL research. You 501 00:36:45.079 --> 00:36:47.719 can't interview the witnesses, but we can find a little girl with a lollipop 502 00:36:47.880 --> 00:36:52.840 but the idea of aliens in her head. But I see, I see 503 00:36:52.880 --> 00:37:00.440 we getting much more legitimate reporting now. The New York Times was very kind 504 00:37:00.599 --> 00:37:07.280 to the announcement about Blink one eighty two's UFO investigation. I mean they treated 505 00:37:07.320 --> 00:37:12.000 it with a legitimate story, and I see more of that going on in 506 00:37:12.079 --> 00:37:15.440 today's world. Yeah, yeah, I think a lot has changed. And 507 00:37:15.599 --> 00:37:17.960 just you know, since you know, the Pentagon article came out, it 508 00:37:19.079 --> 00:37:22.719 just seems so much more. I don't know, easy to talk about. 509 00:37:23.800 --> 00:37:29.599 You know. Um, I spent the last weekend with a on an island 510 00:37:29.679 --> 00:37:34.280 with a some the friends, uh next door neighbor of some friends I was 511 00:37:34.400 --> 00:37:37.960 visiting, and he was a he was a commercial pilot with a fifty five 512 00:37:38.000 --> 00:37:43.039 thousand hours, a lot of international fights and all that, and uh, 513 00:37:43.239 --> 00:37:45.639 you know, I got up the courage to ask him if he had ever 514 00:37:45.719 --> 00:37:49.840 seen anything unusual, and you know, he basically went into a couple of 515 00:37:49.960 --> 00:37:53.199 near crash stories and stuff like that. But I still have a you know, 516 00:37:53.920 --> 00:37:58.599 in certain mixture of companies, Uh, you know, kind of a 517 00:37:58.679 --> 00:38:00.519 hard time you know, bringing up Hey, do you know what do you 518 00:38:00.559 --> 00:38:04.800 think about UFO? Sometimes I feel comfortable with someone and can say it, 519 00:38:05.599 --> 00:38:07.719 but it's it's still a little bit of that, you know, that pressure 520 00:38:09.360 --> 00:38:14.159 not to go there. Well, when we deployed to Iraq, I mean, 521 00:38:14.320 --> 00:38:19.320 almost everybody knew that I was the UFO guy. But but the questions 522 00:38:19.320 --> 00:38:22.480 were legitimate and they were interested in what I had to say. It wasn't 523 00:38:22.480 --> 00:38:24.960 anybody really making fun of what I was doing. And it might have been 524 00:38:25.039 --> 00:38:28.719 one of two reasons. One is because they were highly interested in what I 525 00:38:28.800 --> 00:38:30.639 had to say. Or I was one of the senior officers in the battalion, 526 00:38:31.559 --> 00:38:37.679 so they were a little bit intimidated by But one of the interesting thing 527 00:38:37.800 --> 00:38:43.119 is while in Iraq, we had satellite feeds, you know, satellite television, 528 00:38:43.760 --> 00:38:46.559 and they they we got the History Channel, and a couple of guys, 529 00:38:46.599 --> 00:38:49.440 a couple of the NCOs came up to me one day want to know 530 00:38:49.480 --> 00:38:52.239 if I had had if I had a brother, And I said why They 531 00:38:52.280 --> 00:38:55.400 said, what, we were watching this program on History the other day there 532 00:38:55.440 --> 00:38:58.719 was a guy who with the same last name. It looks an awful lot 533 00:38:58.800 --> 00:39:00.800 like you, And I said, yeah, I was me about ten years 534 00:39:00.840 --> 00:39:07.159 ago. So they had seen that. But um, you know, inside 535 00:39:07.199 --> 00:39:09.840 the inside that that community. If somebody had a question about it, they 536 00:39:09.880 --> 00:39:13.360 would ask me, and I would I would answer the question as best I 537 00:39:13.480 --> 00:39:19.079 could about what UFOs were. Nobody seemed to be really um taken aback by 538 00:39:19.639 --> 00:39:22.280 by my interest in that topic. We had another guy who was very interested 539 00:39:22.320 --> 00:39:27.000 in NASCAR, so he became the NASCAR guy. So, you know, 540 00:39:27.039 --> 00:39:30.519 it's just people had an expertise that they brought to their military service, and 541 00:39:30.719 --> 00:39:35.320 people who were interested in it would approach them to ask questions. But I 542 00:39:35.400 --> 00:39:37.599 didn't ask you this. If you if you were a private, do you 543 00:39:37.639 --> 00:39:42.239 think you would have been treated differently given? No, I don't think so. 544 00:39:43.039 --> 00:39:45.480 I think it was I think it was just an interest in what was 545 00:39:45.559 --> 00:39:51.599 going on. And I think in the military we respect those who have the 546 00:39:51.760 --> 00:39:54.880 knowledge, regardless of the rank that they hold. And I noticed that when 547 00:39:54.960 --> 00:40:00.800 we came back to the United States, there was a special who had worked 548 00:40:00.840 --> 00:40:07.880 in the Joint Operations Center for many, many years, and if there was 549 00:40:07.920 --> 00:40:12.679 a question about protocols, they would ask him the question. He was, 550 00:40:12.760 --> 00:40:15.000 you know, an E four, very low ranking enlisted man, and you'd 551 00:40:15.039 --> 00:40:21.239 have majors asking him questions about the specific protocols because he was the subject matter 552 00:40:21.400 --> 00:40:24.679 expert. And that's the kind of the big catchphrase in the military. For 553 00:40:24.719 --> 00:40:29.599 a while, there was subject matter expert. Who's your subject matter expert? 554 00:40:30.360 --> 00:40:35.320 And you go to that person and ask the questions because he or she should 555 00:40:35.760 --> 00:40:40.320 have those answers, And the rank didn't really factor into that much because this 556 00:40:40.519 --> 00:40:45.639 was the person who had had the answers. Sometimes a subject matter expert happened 557 00:40:45.679 --> 00:40:50.920 to be a major, or a captain or a colonel, and sometimes it 558 00:40:51.000 --> 00:40:53.679 happened to be a sergeant or a specialist or a private. I don't remember 559 00:40:53.679 --> 00:40:57.760 any privates, but me. The specialist was the one that popped into my 560 00:40:57.840 --> 00:41:06.239 mind because I had seen officers asking him specific protocol questions and how to move 561 00:41:06.320 --> 00:41:09.440 forward in a specific task to get it done right. So and he would 562 00:41:09.559 --> 00:41:15.159 explain, you know, here's what we need to do. I've been having 563 00:41:15.280 --> 00:41:19.280 I had a couple of shows kind of focused on the Nimitz case. And 564 00:41:19.400 --> 00:41:23.880 I also have Kevin Day, who was the radar operator, coming up in 565 00:41:24.320 --> 00:41:29.320 a few weeks and hopefully another witness. He said he would try to get 566 00:41:29.360 --> 00:41:31.880 me another witness to what was going on there. But you know, the 567 00:41:32.039 --> 00:41:40.480 military military encounters to me are fascinating and you being a military person, you 568 00:41:40.559 --> 00:41:46.440 know, do you think that there is a lot more happening that you know? 569 00:41:46.480 --> 00:41:49.760 I mean, it seems to me now that I've had five or six 570 00:41:50.039 --> 00:41:52.679 military people on my show that I've talked about, you know, some type 571 00:41:52.679 --> 00:41:59.719 of encounter, And I don't know if you know, because people are a 572 00:41:59.800 --> 00:42:04.079 lot of people are out in the elements, is that one of the reasons 573 00:42:04.280 --> 00:42:07.679 why they see, you know, possibly see UFOs or do you think there's 574 00:42:07.679 --> 00:42:15.440 a connection any type of connection with military and UFO encounters. One thing you 575 00:42:15.519 --> 00:42:17.719 have to remember, if you're outside, you're probably more likely to see one 576 00:42:17.760 --> 00:42:22.280 than if you're inside looking or looking down at your cell phone. Right. 577 00:42:22.559 --> 00:42:30.239 Yeah. But when I well, I talked to a few people that were 578 00:42:30.280 --> 00:42:36.440 involved in insidings and some of them were kind of funny. I talking to 579 00:42:36.519 --> 00:42:40.039 a colonel about the kin Ross disappearance, and the first thing he said to 580 00:42:40.119 --> 00:42:43.119 me, as well, let me tell you a story, And he said, 581 00:42:43.159 --> 00:42:47.159 we were flying up toward Canada and we saw this glow on the horizon. 582 00:42:47.239 --> 00:42:50.960 We thought it was the moon coming up. As we got closer, 583 00:42:51.000 --> 00:42:52.519 we realized it's not the moon because the moon was in a different part of 584 00:42:52.559 --> 00:42:55.719 the sky. And there's this orange glow that really bothered us until we got 585 00:42:55.760 --> 00:43:00.960 close enough and discovered it was a horse fire. So you know, they 586 00:43:01.039 --> 00:43:05.480 got to the point where you know, they're talking UFO, but they've got 587 00:43:05.559 --> 00:43:08.400 an explanation. The other the other story he told me is about kin Ross, 588 00:43:08.960 --> 00:43:15.800 and that's the eighty nine that disappeared off radar. The object, the 589 00:43:15.920 --> 00:43:19.519 UFO blip, and the F eighty nine blip merged and everybody thought, well, 590 00:43:19.519 --> 00:43:21.760 he flew over it or under it, that sort of thing, But 591 00:43:21.840 --> 00:43:25.000 the blips never separated and the single blip left. So what happened to the 592 00:43:25.079 --> 00:43:29.079 F eighty nine? And that was nineteen fifty three, and we still don't 593 00:43:29.159 --> 00:43:31.719 know. The odds are I probably went into the lake Superior, but we 594 00:43:31.840 --> 00:43:35.960 don't know that. And what he was telling me was that there were two 595 00:43:36.039 --> 00:43:37.519 school thoughts at kin Ross at the time, because he had been there, 596 00:43:38.239 --> 00:43:40.639 and one of them was that it was UFO and it took him. The 597 00:43:40.719 --> 00:43:45.239 other school, which was probably the more prominent school of thought, was that 598 00:43:45.360 --> 00:43:50.320 the airplane had crashed and gone into the lake. But he was saying that 599 00:43:51.159 --> 00:43:57.679 he was up in a fighter doing their thing and were approached by a UFO 600 00:43:57.760 --> 00:44:00.800 it was pacing them, and he said to the wing his wingman, Okay, 601 00:44:00.840 --> 00:44:02.880 we're going to count to three and we're going to turn into it to 602 00:44:02.960 --> 00:44:06.840 see what happens. And I thought, well, this is really a dumb 603 00:44:06.920 --> 00:44:10.960 plan, but that's what their plan was. And he counted three, they 604 00:44:12.039 --> 00:44:15.599 turned towards the uf own they just sped off. And so you've got these 605 00:44:15.679 --> 00:44:20.360 guys who were kin Ross at the time after the disappearance of the F eighty 606 00:44:20.480 --> 00:44:24.760 nine talking about another legitimate UFO signing and what they did. They don't know 607 00:44:24.880 --> 00:44:29.679 what they saw or what happened, but that was what he told me. 608 00:44:29.800 --> 00:44:34.960 So I've talked to military pilots and military personnel who have told me their UFO 609 00:44:35.039 --> 00:44:37.719 stores. My own experience, now, I didn't see anything. I did 610 00:44:37.800 --> 00:44:43.519 have a top secret clearance as an intelligence officer in the Air Force and then 611 00:44:43.559 --> 00:44:45.960 in the Guard. When we went to a rack, so I was seeing 612 00:44:45.039 --> 00:44:49.840 top secret. I could see top secret stuff. Most of the stuff we 613 00:44:49.960 --> 00:44:54.599 saw was classified secret. And that's the other thing to the uf field talks 614 00:44:54.639 --> 00:45:00.239 about top secrets and all this stuff, and they don't understand that the the 615 00:45:00.840 --> 00:45:06.400 difference between secret and top secret is just astronomical. Secret stuff can be stored 616 00:45:06.400 --> 00:45:09.719 in a state safe or locking file cabinet, not not a tin file cabinet, 617 00:45:09.760 --> 00:45:14.760 but but one like that. Top secrets requires a vault. You've got 618 00:45:14.880 --> 00:45:19.400 to sign it out, you've got to make notations where it's gone, where 619 00:45:19.960 --> 00:45:22.639 and when it comes back. I mean, it's very very strict on the 620 00:45:22.719 --> 00:45:27.559 dealing with top secrets. In my military experience, I never saw a top 621 00:45:27.599 --> 00:45:31.320 secret document that dealt with UFOs. Never I saw secret documents that did. 622 00:45:32.119 --> 00:45:36.280 And the sightings were pretty mundane, the kind of sightings that we get all 623 00:45:36.320 --> 00:45:38.800 the time the time, the kind of sightings that we see pilots seeing the 624 00:45:38.880 --> 00:45:44.159 things, people on the ground seeing the things. I talked to people who 625 00:45:44.320 --> 00:45:49.639 told me their UFO stories, but it was not in any kind of official 626 00:45:49.719 --> 00:45:52.519 capacity, So you know, it's just, well, that's an interesting story, 627 00:45:52.559 --> 00:45:54.760 and I'll just file it away in case it comes up later on. 628 00:45:55.480 --> 00:46:00.360 So, you know, I think it just depends on what your mission is, 629 00:46:00.599 --> 00:46:05.800 where you are, what you're doing that you happen to see these things. 630 00:46:05.880 --> 00:46:09.199 And I think if you look at the statistics that you'll find out that 631 00:46:09.360 --> 00:46:15.000 most UFO sidings take place between like six pm and night and ten o'clock at 632 00:46:15.079 --> 00:46:17.519 night. Well, why would that be, Well, there's more people outside, 633 00:46:19.440 --> 00:46:22.159 you know, and when when do you get most of the sidings? 634 00:46:22.199 --> 00:46:27.199 When you get them in the summertime, why more people are outside? You 635 00:46:27.280 --> 00:46:30.320 know, in today's environment, they may be outside, but they're still staring 636 00:46:30.320 --> 00:46:35.440 at the damn phone, so they're not seeing anything. But but I think 637 00:46:35.440 --> 00:46:37.880 if you look at the statistics, you know, and you break them down 638 00:46:37.000 --> 00:46:42.800 that way, you know, it makes sense about when are you most likely 639 00:46:42.880 --> 00:46:45.000 to see something? And what are you doing when you see it? When 640 00:46:45.039 --> 00:46:47.800 you're outside doing something. The one thing that I think I remembered, and 641 00:46:49.079 --> 00:46:52.679 this was like decades ago, that somebody had analyzed at the day and most 642 00:46:52.719 --> 00:46:58.800 likely to see a UFO was I think April twenty fourth, and the and 643 00:46:59.079 --> 00:47:02.800 the I think the day of the week was Wednesday. Wow, if I 644 00:47:02.920 --> 00:47:07.239 remember, I don't remember exactly, but but it just struck me, you 645 00:47:07.280 --> 00:47:09.039 know. And then you started about breaking it down time, Well, it's 646 00:47:09.320 --> 00:47:15.119 after six pm at night and prior to midnight, say, you see it 647 00:47:15.119 --> 00:47:16.920 because the people are outside looking up. So when you ask the question, 648 00:47:17.000 --> 00:47:21.159 I think that the reason you get the military part of the reason you get 649 00:47:21.199 --> 00:47:23.960 the military pilots involved. Of course, is the Air Defense Command and the 650 00:47:24.159 --> 00:47:31.480 requirement to check on aircraft penetrating the air defense zones around the coast players of 651 00:47:31.519 --> 00:47:36.119 the United States. So something penetrates that and is not a commercial flight, 652 00:47:36.159 --> 00:47:40.079 and it's not a flight that has been logged on through the various ways you 653 00:47:40.199 --> 00:47:44.519 do those sorts of things like the FAA. Then the Air Force scrambles to 654 00:47:44.599 --> 00:47:46.559 take a look at it to see what it is. Oftentimes, most times 655 00:47:46.599 --> 00:47:52.320 it turns out to be a commercial aircraft that's off its course or somebody, 656 00:47:53.159 --> 00:47:55.559 you know, it didn't file the proper flight plan. When I was in 657 00:47:55.639 --> 00:48:00.840 flight school, and I didn't know this because I was like eighteen years old, 658 00:48:01.679 --> 00:48:05.920 but we were flying the darn thh fifty five, which has a service 659 00:48:05.960 --> 00:48:09.639 ceiling and like twelve thousand feet, and but you could get it higher if 660 00:48:09.679 --> 00:48:14.239 you if you worked at it and you get the ways, you could defeat 661 00:48:14.320 --> 00:48:17.679 that. And I think I got up to fifteen thousand feet once and then 662 00:48:19.000 --> 00:48:22.920 came down from it, and I realized a little later that the AA requires 663 00:48:22.960 --> 00:48:27.280 a flight plan for everybody over fourteen thousand feet. So I was in violation 664 00:48:27.320 --> 00:48:31.280 of FAA regulations unknowingly. But I don't know if I came up on radar 665 00:48:31.320 --> 00:48:37.599 and then disappeared or what exactly happened. But I think if they if the 666 00:48:37.719 --> 00:48:39.119 radar operator it was going on and knew what was going on in the area, 667 00:48:39.159 --> 00:48:42.960 say well, I wasn't those damn helicopter students trying to see what he 668 00:48:43.000 --> 00:48:45.719 can do that sort of thing. So, I mean, you look at 669 00:48:45.760 --> 00:48:49.840 that sort of thing, so you'd expect the military pilot to maybe see something 670 00:48:49.960 --> 00:48:53.480 more often. US pilots who fly late at night may see something more often 671 00:48:53.480 --> 00:48:57.159 because it's much easier to see the things at night than it would be during 672 00:48:57.199 --> 00:49:01.480 the daylight hours. You know. So I think I don't think there's really 673 00:49:01.599 --> 00:49:08.880 any conspiracy going on about that. Well they're looking for at the military morsel 674 00:49:09.000 --> 00:49:14.519 in the civilian world. Yeah. By the way, April twenty fourth this 675 00:49:14.719 --> 00:49:20.480 year is on a Wednesday, so everyone ought to be outside after six pm. 676 00:49:20.599 --> 00:49:24.239 After six pm, right, And speaking of helicopters, and you know, 677 00:49:24.360 --> 00:49:30.480 the one case I think is really intriguing as the Larry Coin case incident 678 00:49:30.840 --> 00:49:37.199 back in seventy three or whenever it was a helicopter and what do you think 679 00:49:37.239 --> 00:49:42.760 of that case? That's first of all, I had to laugh at Philip 680 00:49:42.840 --> 00:49:47.280 Class because he wrote in his book when he was degrading the case, downgrading 681 00:49:47.320 --> 00:49:53.960 the case, denigrating mckayse, he was he was concerned because Coin took over 682 00:49:54.039 --> 00:50:01.519 the controls from it was a Jesse who was flying it, and but he 683 00:50:01.599 --> 00:50:06.800 didn't. He said, well, as the craft was the aircraft, the 684 00:50:07.079 --> 00:50:14.280 helicopter was going down, plunging down, and he couldn't he couldn't do anything 685 00:50:14.320 --> 00:50:19.679 about it. And then suddenly they popped up to thirty five hundred feet classes, 686 00:50:19.719 --> 00:50:22.159 well, maybe Jesse took over the collectives and pulled up on it so 687 00:50:22.239 --> 00:50:22.920 that because he could see what was going on. I said, no, 688 00:50:23.599 --> 00:50:27.239 not the way it works. I knew they had the same They had the 689 00:50:27.320 --> 00:50:30.199 same training I did. And the one thing you always did. If I 690 00:50:30.360 --> 00:50:32.800 was a pilot in command and I wanted the co pilot to fly, I 691 00:50:32.880 --> 00:50:36.320 would have my hands on the control. I'd say, you've got it. 692 00:50:36.960 --> 00:50:38.719 He would put his hands on the control and said I've got it. I 693 00:50:38.760 --> 00:50:43.880 would release them. Or if I wanted to take control, I would say 694 00:50:44.000 --> 00:50:46.480 i've got it, put my hands on the control. He would release it. 695 00:50:46.920 --> 00:50:52.199 And so Jesse, who was in the other seat wouldn't have been pulling 696 00:50:52.280 --> 00:50:55.639 up on the collective without informing Cone what he was doing. He just wouldn't 697 00:50:55.639 --> 00:50:58.480 work that way. He would have said, he would have. He would 698 00:50:58.480 --> 00:51:00.400 have either mentioned it to him or he would have taken the controls because he 699 00:51:00.440 --> 00:51:04.880 sees the aircraft is about to crash and he says, I've got it. 700 00:51:05.320 --> 00:51:08.800 And I was in experience it with my co pilots as an aircraft commander in 701 00:51:08.880 --> 00:51:15.280 Vietnam. Once the copilot took the aircraft away and made a dive because he 702 00:51:15.360 --> 00:51:19.400 thought we were about to hit another airplane, and he just said, I've 703 00:51:19.440 --> 00:51:21.239 got it. I said, you've got it, and let go of and 704 00:51:21.719 --> 00:51:24.039 he dove and then I said what are you doing? And he said, 705 00:51:24.039 --> 00:51:25.719 I thought we were going to hit that airplane. So now I had it 706 00:51:25.800 --> 00:51:29.679 in sight, it's like, you know, half a mile away, don't 707 00:51:29.719 --> 00:51:32.159 worry about it. But he just caught it, and he thought the aircraft 708 00:51:32.280 --> 00:51:35.679 was in danger, and he took controls. I mean, we were trained 709 00:51:35.679 --> 00:51:38.480 on how to do that. So when Class said that the Jesse had pulled 710 00:51:38.559 --> 00:51:43.360 up on the collective and keep reaching down for the collective because it was with 711 00:51:43.440 --> 00:51:51.679 your left hand the collective pitch which controls up and down it just wouldn't have 712 00:51:51.719 --> 00:51:53.239 happened that way. And both of them are military pilots. Both of them 713 00:51:53.280 --> 00:51:57.039 had been trained the same way I was, with the same flight schools. 714 00:51:57.079 --> 00:51:59.960 I knew exactly what was going on. But I think it's a very good 715 00:52:00.039 --> 00:52:02.400 in case you've got four military people. I talked to one of the guys. 716 00:52:06.800 --> 00:52:08.039 In fact, I had him on my radio show to talk. No 717 00:52:08.199 --> 00:52:10.440 I had invited on me. He didn't want to do it, but I 718 00:52:10.519 --> 00:52:15.239 talked to him about that and what he'd seen and how the things, how 719 00:52:15.639 --> 00:52:19.199 things went in the aircraft. So I got a better idea I did I 720 00:52:19.320 --> 00:52:22.199 did. I think I did a thing on my blog about that and what 721 00:52:22.400 --> 00:52:27.079 he had seen and how that happened. Class, in his analysis ignored one 722 00:52:27.119 --> 00:52:31.800 of the one of the crewmen who had seen the object out the left side 723 00:52:31.840 --> 00:52:35.679 of the aircraft as it passed by the left side, and then it came 724 00:52:35.760 --> 00:52:38.039 up on the right side of the aircraft, so it circled around the aircraft. 725 00:52:38.920 --> 00:52:42.320 So Class was completely wrong on that. But I think it's a very 726 00:52:42.360 --> 00:52:45.639 good case. I don't think there's a good explanation for it. There was 727 00:52:45.679 --> 00:52:52.480 a there was a fellow who said that it was airysfueling aircraft that was supposed 728 00:52:52.480 --> 00:52:58.559 to be air refueling a helicopter in the area, and the air refueling aircraft 729 00:52:58.599 --> 00:53:01.519 got too close to the helicopt Well, you have no air refueling capability on 730 00:53:01.559 --> 00:53:06.679 a Huey helicopter, for one thing. And in the United States, the 731 00:53:06.719 --> 00:53:10.599 air refueling operations take place in certain areas and this wasn't one of the areas 732 00:53:10.599 --> 00:53:15.800 where it would take place. So the explanation kind of failed on those points. 733 00:53:15.199 --> 00:53:19.039 But I mean it was a legitimate attempt to explain the sighting. He 734 00:53:19.119 --> 00:53:22.239 thought he had a good a good explanation, and he pointed out there and 735 00:53:22.280 --> 00:53:24.519 we took a look at it nice When I say we, I mean me, 736 00:53:25.079 --> 00:53:28.360 and talk to some of the people about it. We decided, well, 737 00:53:28.519 --> 00:53:30.960 it's an interesting theory, but I don't think it works based on the 738 00:53:30.039 --> 00:53:37.960 facts. So I think it's a very good case based on the testimonies by 739 00:53:37.039 --> 00:53:45.400 the crew member who were on board. I know Jesse's explanations were a little 740 00:53:45.440 --> 00:53:47.480 bit different than the rest of the crew. He didn't quite agree with some 741 00:53:47.599 --> 00:53:51.559 of the things they said. But you go back and you take a look 742 00:53:51.599 --> 00:53:54.760 at the original statements and you find his statement is more in line with their 743 00:53:54.840 --> 00:54:01.920 statements. As a statement later on sort of um diverge from what they had 744 00:54:01.960 --> 00:54:05.480 to say. Kevin, we got to go to break, and when we 745 00:54:05.559 --> 00:54:09.719 come back for the new listener, Well let's go over like a nutshell of 746 00:54:09.960 --> 00:54:15.440 what actually transpired during that sighting. All right, everyone, My guest tonight 747 00:54:15.760 --> 00:54:23.199 is Kevin Randall, and we'll be right back right after these messages. All 748 00:54:23.280 --> 00:54:29.119 right, we're back. My guest is Kevin Randall. And before the break 749 00:54:29.199 --> 00:54:34.559 we were talking about the Larry Coin case nineteen seventy five. I can't remember 750 00:54:34.599 --> 00:54:37.320 exactly what that is, but I was thinking, you know, for the 751 00:54:37.519 --> 00:54:40.599 new listeners to the show and people are just getting interested in UFOs, do 752 00:54:40.679 --> 00:54:45.960 you know the basic story on what happened? I could say it, but 753 00:54:46.000 --> 00:54:53.800 I think I might miss some miss some things or say it wrong actually for 754 00:54:53.920 --> 00:54:57.960 a lot of it. Well, as I've said before, I know everything. 755 00:54:59.400 --> 00:55:02.400 Okay, that's yeah, Yeah, I believe it was nineteen seventy fan, 756 00:55:02.440 --> 00:55:07.639 it was October of nineteen seventy three, and it was one helicopter. 757 00:55:08.800 --> 00:55:14.400 I've got like I've got like fifteen hundred hours, fourteen hundred hours in the 758 00:55:14.480 --> 00:55:17.400 UH one helicopter eleven hundred of a combat time, so I'm familiar with the 759 00:55:17.400 --> 00:55:23.199 aircraft of how it works. They were on a they had been to um 760 00:55:23.880 --> 00:55:27.320 Dayton, Ohio. I forgued where they've been in a while, Yes, 761 00:55:27.800 --> 00:55:30.800 but they were They had gone for a flight physical and they were flying back 762 00:55:30.880 --> 00:55:37.559 to their home station around Madison, Ohio. And as they were traveling along, 763 00:55:37.719 --> 00:55:40.440 flying along, minding their own business, one of the one of the 764 00:55:40.480 --> 00:55:46.199 crewmen saw light coming at them and it approached on the left side. It 765 00:55:46.480 --> 00:55:51.599 went down the side of the aircraft and disappeared in a few moments later. 766 00:55:51.760 --> 00:55:54.320 The other other crewmen said that it was coming up on the right side, 767 00:55:54.400 --> 00:56:00.760 heading toward them, and that at that point, I think Jesse was flying 768 00:56:00.800 --> 00:56:05.599 the aircraft. Coin was sitting there letting him do that as the air As 769 00:56:05.639 --> 00:56:07.719 the thing came close, he said, I've got it. He took over 770 00:56:07.840 --> 00:56:12.639 control of the aircraft. UM. The objects sort of stopped over the over 771 00:56:12.679 --> 00:56:19.400 the helicopter and big green object that they could see and watched it for a 772 00:56:19.440 --> 00:56:23.360 minute. UM. They the aircraft seemed to be descending at that point, 773 00:56:23.400 --> 00:56:29.760 their aircraft, the helicopter seemed to be sitting descending. UM because Coin didn't 774 00:56:29.800 --> 00:56:35.800 want to collide with this object. Um, then there was some kind there 775 00:56:35.880 --> 00:56:38.039 was there's some kind of radio interference as well. They had been talking to 776 00:56:38.119 --> 00:56:44.599 the Mansfield Airport and they lost radio communication with it. So they because he 777 00:56:44.679 --> 00:56:47.280 were asking for there's other traffic in the area, I mean the other other 778 00:56:47.320 --> 00:56:53.119 aircraft in the area. And the object then shot off and as as it 779 00:56:53.239 --> 00:56:59.239 did, Coin noticed they were in a climb and he couldn't arrest the climb. 780 00:57:00.000 --> 00:57:02.000 And I know what you do in a situation like that. You put 781 00:57:02.079 --> 00:57:06.679 the collective full down and if that doesn't work, you roll off the throttle 782 00:57:07.159 --> 00:57:09.599 to what was called the flight idle d tent. And if that doesn't work, 783 00:57:09.639 --> 00:57:13.000 the last the last thing you do is kick the petals out of trim 784 00:57:13.159 --> 00:57:16.800 and the aircraft out of trim so it would fall faster. Um, that 785 00:57:17.000 --> 00:57:20.280 wasn't working. I don't know if you went through all those procedures or not. 786 00:57:20.559 --> 00:57:23.199 I had a situation where flying in a formation, I was in the 787 00:57:23.639 --> 00:57:28.360 slot position and there were aircraft on each side of me and behind me, 788 00:57:28.480 --> 00:57:30.800 and we were descending into an LZ and the air my aircraft was floating, 789 00:57:31.360 --> 00:57:34.920 and that's what I had to do. I rolled off the throat. I 790 00:57:34.960 --> 00:57:37.559 had the collective pulled out a roll off the throat like kick the pedals out 791 00:57:37.599 --> 00:57:42.280 of trim. And as as that happened, you know, I was able 792 00:57:42.320 --> 00:57:45.519 to stay in my position to the flight couldn't break either way, which which 793 00:57:45.559 --> 00:57:47.760 is what I would have done. And we got close to the ground. 794 00:57:47.800 --> 00:57:52.079 The fleet flares out and everything everything was okay. So they, you know, 795 00:57:52.320 --> 00:57:57.880 I speculate that they that Coin had done the same thing trying to keep 796 00:57:57.920 --> 00:58:00.360 the aircraft to stop. He said he felt the ump. They were thirty 797 00:58:00.400 --> 00:58:02.599 five hundred feet, he felt to thump, and he was able to regain 798 00:58:02.639 --> 00:58:07.039 the air The control of aircraft flew onto their home station, landed and made 799 00:58:07.079 --> 00:58:10.800 the report about what it was said. The compass was spinning wildly. I 800 00:58:10.880 --> 00:58:15.119 think Jesse said they replaced it. They replaced it was a magnetic compass as 801 00:58:15.159 --> 00:58:20.679 opposed to ADF and I think Jesse said, you know, we replaced the 802 00:58:20.719 --> 00:58:24.239 compass, but Coin said we did that, and one of them said it 803 00:58:24.320 --> 00:58:28.800 didn't work properly. Still, I think Coin said after they replaced it worked 804 00:58:28.880 --> 00:58:32.480 okay. Jesse was saying it didn't work properly the second time they replaced it 805 00:58:32.519 --> 00:58:36.360 because there was some kind of interference in the aircraft. And I know when 806 00:58:36.360 --> 00:58:38.960 you put a magnetic compass in an aircraft, you have to do what they 807 00:58:39.000 --> 00:58:44.519 called swinging the compass, which means you align on the air On airfields, 808 00:58:44.519 --> 00:58:47.440 there's what's called a compass road. Just set set an aircraft down there and 809 00:58:47.559 --> 00:58:52.920 you use that to align magnetic north so that you know exactly you can you 810 00:58:53.039 --> 00:58:59.559 know where the compass is, so it's magnetic north and the compass was spinning. 811 00:58:59.599 --> 00:59:04.000 I think um Jenny Zeidman learned that after they had replaced the compass it 812 00:59:04.079 --> 00:59:07.320 worked, okay, So you know, another effect of being close to the 813 00:59:07.480 --> 00:59:12.440 UFO. There were some people on the ground that saw the green light and 814 00:59:12.519 --> 00:59:15.480 saw the helicopter and that sort of thing. So other witnesses on the ground 815 00:59:15.920 --> 00:59:19.400 as well, So it wasn't just the aircrew but all the aircrew, but 816 00:59:19.519 --> 00:59:22.119 other witnesses saw the thing as well. There was no radar return, but 817 00:59:22.280 --> 00:59:29.000 in today's world with stealth aircraft, who cares. You know that stealth aircraft 818 00:59:29.119 --> 00:59:36.280 kind of renders that the no radar return argument moot. So yeah, that's 819 00:59:36.360 --> 00:59:38.039 kind of the basics of it. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, 820 00:59:38.119 --> 00:59:43.440 you covered that really well. And yeah, that's a real, real good 821 00:59:43.519 --> 00:59:46.760 one, I think, and very scary. You know, you talked about 822 00:59:47.159 --> 00:59:52.599 that military UM. I forget what aircraft was. Were they merged or it 823 00:59:52.679 --> 00:59:58.159 looked like they emerged on radar UM and uh, you know probably went into 824 00:59:58.239 --> 01:00:01.760 the lake U. That's what reminded me of this because you know, it 825 01:00:01.920 --> 01:00:06.960 was almost like they were going to be uh, you know, abducted the 826 01:00:07.079 --> 01:00:08.920 whole unit. You know, in a way it was similar. Well, 827 01:00:08.960 --> 01:00:15.920 there's there's there's any number of aircraft who have disappeared chasing UFOs, and there's 828 01:00:15.960 --> 01:00:21.400 other other encounters with UFOs that caused some kind of problems with the aircraft. 829 01:00:21.639 --> 01:00:24.559 Interestingly, I've noticed, you know, we have the stories of cars being 830 01:00:24.639 --> 01:00:29.159 stole by close approach or UFOs, engines are stalled, the lights fade out 831 01:00:29.199 --> 01:00:34.519 and the radios fade away. We've had close approaches of UFOs to aircraft where 832 01:00:34.559 --> 01:00:38.039 it has affected the electronic systems, the avionics of the aircraft, and yet 833 01:00:38.079 --> 01:00:44.119 it doesn't stall the engines. And yeah, you think you think back to 834 01:00:44.199 --> 01:00:45.920 the day the Earth stood still, where Michael Rennie is going to have to 835 01:00:46.480 --> 01:00:51.400 figure out some kind of demonstration of power and Sam Jeffey said, well, 836 01:00:51.400 --> 01:00:53.960 a little demonstration or anybody get hurt and see shut off all the electricity. 837 01:00:54.800 --> 01:00:58.559 But but they said, even even the exceptions were interesting. You know, 838 01:00:58.679 --> 01:01:01.360 airplanes in flight spittals, things like that. You know, they didn't lose 839 01:01:01.360 --> 01:01:05.960 their electrical power. It was just everybody else. And you know, one 840 01:01:06.000 --> 01:01:12.440 of the things I think about is we don't have a case where an aircraft 841 01:01:12.480 --> 01:01:19.119 accident was caused by the electromagnetic effect. And I couch it in those terms 842 01:01:19.159 --> 01:01:22.400 specifically because there's there's the Australian case where the pilot disappeared, and of course 843 01:01:22.440 --> 01:01:28.280 at F eighty nine that disappeared as well. But you've got close approaches of 844 01:01:28.400 --> 01:01:30.800 UFOs that do affect the avionics and things like that, but don't shut down 845 01:01:30.880 --> 01:01:35.679 the engines. So that's kind of an interesting thing. The other which we 846 01:01:35.760 --> 01:01:39.599 might I mean other here's another point as well, the electromagnetic effects that shut 847 01:01:39.679 --> 01:01:43.440 down the engines the content committing. Others have said, well, we know 848 01:01:43.559 --> 01:01:52.039 of no mechanism to suppress an engine working, you know that way, and 849 01:01:52.199 --> 01:01:54.599 then when the UFO leaves, the engine begins to work properly again. But 850 01:01:54.760 --> 01:02:02.000 I went back and I studied several hundred of these cases of engines being stalled, 851 01:02:02.360 --> 01:02:06.519 and I what I saw was a lot of times they said, well, 852 01:02:06.559 --> 01:02:09.199 the engine worked properly after the UFO left, but it didn't say it 853 01:02:09.320 --> 01:02:14.519 started spontaneously. And you look closer, you find more cases as well. 854 01:02:14.880 --> 01:02:16.960 Once the UFO was gone, I was able to start the car. Yeah, 855 01:02:17.159 --> 01:02:21.679 so they started the engine. So it's not like the engine comes back 856 01:02:21.960 --> 01:02:27.639 spontaneously, but the driver had to take some action to get to get the 857 01:02:27.719 --> 01:02:31.280 engine started. There are cases where they say it started spontaneously, but the 858 01:02:31.400 --> 01:02:35.800 majority of the cases seemed to be that the driver took some kind of action 859 01:02:36.440 --> 01:02:39.199 to start the engine. Even though the radio came back, the lights brightened 860 01:02:39.239 --> 01:02:45.119 up again, the driver had to do something to start to start the engine 861 01:02:45.119 --> 01:02:47.000 of the of the vehicles. You know. Kind of one of the things 862 01:02:47.039 --> 01:02:51.719 that I've noticed as you study some of these cases in depth. Yeah, 863 01:02:52.039 --> 01:02:54.960 you know, I never thought of those cases always really interest me too. 864 01:02:55.480 --> 01:03:01.599 And actually, um, the fact that the engine and the airplane, I 865 01:03:01.719 --> 01:03:07.239 never thought of that. That why does everything else get effective but not that? 866 01:03:07.840 --> 01:03:12.039 And you know I had mentioned on the show a couple of times over 867 01:03:12.119 --> 01:03:16.159 in Russia this, Uh, it's basically my girlfriend's father. You know, 868 01:03:16.320 --> 01:03:21.960 had an encounter where everyone in this mountain pass their engines stalled, and they 869 01:03:22.360 --> 01:03:23.920 went over to the side of the road and got out and watched the cigar 870 01:03:24.039 --> 01:03:29.559 shaped thing, you know with portholes float over. All the engines were stalled 871 01:03:29.599 --> 01:03:31.920 in every car, and after the thing went over, everyone was able to 872 01:03:31.960 --> 01:03:36.800 start up their car and go on, you know. So it's those cases 873 01:03:36.840 --> 01:03:43.760 that just fascinate me. And led Stringfield talked about his encounter with it. 874 01:03:44.199 --> 01:03:47.119 It said it started the engines of the C forty seven to operate roughly, 875 01:03:47.800 --> 01:03:52.960 and the copotit said, you know, prepared to ditch, and then of 876 01:03:52.039 --> 01:03:55.440 course the three objects left and the engine smoothed out and they were able to 877 01:03:55.480 --> 01:03:59.960 continue their trip to Japan. It's right after the end of World War two, 878 01:04:00.039 --> 01:04:02.079 by the way, so and they were leaving from Ewojima to go to 879 01:04:02.239 --> 01:04:09.000 Japan right after the end of the war. And but but the aircraft didn't 880 01:04:09.000 --> 01:04:14.880 crash and the things moved away, so that the engines moved out. So, 881 01:04:15.079 --> 01:04:16.320 you know, I look at all of that sort of thing as a 882 01:04:16.400 --> 01:04:24.079 way of you know, there is there patterns two sidings and things like that. 883 01:04:24.440 --> 01:04:27.199 One of the things I've noticed and something I was putting together. There 884 01:04:27.320 --> 01:04:31.159 was a siding in Cherio Creek, New York in nineteen sixty five, and 885 01:04:31.679 --> 01:04:35.320 they found after the UFO was gone, they found some oily like stubb substance 886 01:04:35.400 --> 01:04:40.159 on the in the fields, and they found some sort of like skid marks 887 01:04:40.840 --> 01:04:44.559 in the past years. And I thought, you know, there's a number 888 01:04:44.599 --> 01:04:48.199 of cases where the physical evidence like that has been found, but nobody's ever 889 01:04:48.360 --> 01:04:51.400 linked them before, you know, And it got me to think, on 890 01:04:51.519 --> 01:04:55.880 do we need a big database, I mean a big spreadsheet where you can 891 01:04:56.320 --> 01:05:00.480 quickly look at that sort of thing. But we mentioned the flat which case 892 01:05:00.599 --> 01:05:04.840 earlier because of the Project Bluebook. In the real case, they did find 893 01:05:05.000 --> 01:05:11.039 some skid marks on the ground and some oily substance left behind. So we've 894 01:05:11.079 --> 01:05:13.519 got this case from nineteen fifty two, and now we have a case from 895 01:05:13.599 --> 01:05:15.360 nineteen sixty five, but the same sort of thing as gone. There was 896 01:05:15.360 --> 01:05:19.039 another case called the tin Can Man from Minnesota, I think, also in 897 01:05:19.159 --> 01:05:23.280 nineteen sixty five, where they found an oily substance. And there's another case 898 01:05:23.679 --> 01:05:26.639 where they found the skid marks and the oily substance. And I can't find 899 01:05:26.719 --> 01:05:29.480 the case because I didn't write it. Down at the time because I just 900 01:05:29.719 --> 01:05:31.800 noted it, but I can't find it out to go back to the files 901 01:05:31.800 --> 01:05:35.119 to see if I can find the specific case. But then I started looking 902 01:05:35.159 --> 01:05:41.280 for cases like that where you've got a skid marks and you know, like 903 01:05:41.559 --> 01:05:46.159 two feet long two three foot long marks, maybe side by side, parallel 904 01:05:46.320 --> 01:05:50.960 or one after another, that sort of thing in the fields where the UFOs 905 01:05:51.000 --> 01:05:55.119 were seen. And you know, I don't know if anybody's ever put that 906 01:05:55.320 --> 01:06:00.679 kind of thing together. Was it Ted? Ted Phillips had done an analysis 907 01:06:00.920 --> 01:06:04.400 of landing traces where he put it together. I think he had four four 908 01:06:04.480 --> 01:06:09.760 thousand and five thousand cases. He said, if you tell me the landing 909 01:06:09.840 --> 01:06:13.199 gear, I'll tell you the shape of the object, So that you know, 910 01:06:13.280 --> 01:06:15.960 that was kind of an interesting thing for him to say. Or if 911 01:06:15.000 --> 01:06:16.920 you tell me the shape of the object, I'll tell you the kind of 912 01:06:17.039 --> 01:06:21.800 landing gear it had. And so if he was able to deduce a pattern 913 01:06:23.760 --> 01:06:28.000 between the shape of the object and the landing gear pattern that you would see 914 01:06:28.000 --> 01:06:31.519 if there was landing your patterns left behind. And he had about four thousand 915 01:06:31.599 --> 01:06:35.880 cases. One of the problems that we when we run into with some of 916 01:06:35.920 --> 01:06:42.000 those landing trace cases is oftentimes the craft isn't seen on the ground, the 917 01:06:42.400 --> 01:06:45.840 craft is seen in proximity, and so there's an assumption that there's a correlation 918 01:06:45.920 --> 01:06:49.400 between the markings on the ground and the craft scene in the sky, and 919 01:06:49.719 --> 01:06:56.880 that may not be a valid scientific conclusion to draw. But by the same 920 01:06:56.960 --> 01:07:01.559 token, you know, as I said, Phillips was able to deduce the 921 01:07:01.719 --> 01:07:04.800 landing year based on the shape of the craft and vice versa. So it's 922 01:07:04.880 --> 01:07:10.239 kind of an interesting thing that I think we need more of in uphology if 923 01:07:10.280 --> 01:07:14.800 we're going to move us to a more scientific realm, is to look at 924 01:07:14.880 --> 01:07:20.320 some of these cases that may be widely separated in time and distance, but 925 01:07:20.840 --> 01:07:28.559 have some of the same physical evidence attributes that maybe would help us understand things 926 01:07:28.559 --> 01:07:33.079 a little bit better. Yeah, I think things like that should be noted. 927 01:07:33.800 --> 01:07:38.719 It reminds me of I know, there's there's pictures of a very unusual 928 01:07:38.840 --> 01:07:42.960 craft that are something like twenty years apart. I can't remember ones in France, 929 01:07:43.559 --> 01:07:45.719 and I just can't remember where the other one was taken, and it 930 01:07:45.800 --> 01:07:50.280 looks like an exact same craft, very mcmonville mcmonville, or maybe it is 931 01:07:50.320 --> 01:07:54.599 mcmonville. Yeah, but the problem the problem with that, I think the 932 01:07:54.679 --> 01:07:58.079 French French picture was taken in nineteen fifty four, so it's only you know, 933 01:07:58.119 --> 01:08:00.679 it's like four years apart. Oh it's four years, okay, but 934 01:08:00.800 --> 01:08:03.960 there's but there's no good source for the French picture. We know, we 935 01:08:04.079 --> 01:08:08.679 know who took the pictures in mcminville, you know, we know all that, 936 01:08:08.960 --> 01:08:13.039 all that information about it. But with the French picture, we don't 937 01:08:13.079 --> 01:08:16.079 have all of that information. So it becomes a little bit problematic. But 938 01:08:16.560 --> 01:08:19.479 that's exactly the sort of thing. And that's the other thing, you know, 939 01:08:19.520 --> 01:08:23.880 how come we when we see pictures of UFOs. Of course, what 940 01:08:24.000 --> 01:08:27.039 we have to remember is about ninety nine percent of them were taken by teenage 941 01:08:27.079 --> 01:08:34.560 boys and of those or hoaxes. But we do not have uh pictures that 942 01:08:35.119 --> 01:08:42.199 were the same object kind of reappears in I was gonna say, a regular 943 01:08:42.239 --> 01:08:45.520 pattern, but not necessarily regular, but regularly, but but reappears in different 944 01:08:45.640 --> 01:08:50.079 places at different times. We don't really have any good photographs like that. 945 01:08:50.920 --> 01:08:57.000 I think the problem of the problems this course, back when you UFOs first 946 01:08:57.319 --> 01:09:00.239 began visiting us, as we say, in the modern era, not everybody 947 01:09:00.319 --> 01:09:06.199 had cameras. Nobody we traveled with cameras and and people were afraid of burning 948 01:09:06.319 --> 01:09:11.000 up film for something that might not come out, so they didn't take pictures, 949 01:09:11.279 --> 01:09:15.800 unlike the ubiquitous cell phone with its twenty six megapixel camera has been embedded 950 01:09:15.840 --> 01:09:18.720 in it, but they don't see the UFOs because they're busy looking at the 951 01:09:18.720 --> 01:09:23.640 phone as a pose ups in the sky. Yeah, that was the one 952 01:09:23.720 --> 01:09:28.199 thing that I've always wanted is a photographic case where you've got independent witnesses at 953 01:09:28.199 --> 01:09:31.239 two or three different locations shooting the same object. And if you had that, 954 01:09:31.479 --> 01:09:34.560 you could get good information about the size of the object, the height 955 01:09:34.640 --> 01:09:39.680 that it was, and the speed it was moving because you can triangulate from 956 01:09:39.760 --> 01:09:43.439 that point. When we don't have a case like that, we've had we've 957 01:09:43.479 --> 01:09:47.479 got we've got cases where we have people in multiple locations seeing a similar thing 958 01:09:48.119 --> 01:09:53.960 Levelland, Texas in nineteen fifty seven, stalling the car engines, and you've 959 01:09:54.000 --> 01:10:00.720 got witnesses, I know, witnesses, witnesses at least thirteen separate locations reporting 960 01:10:00.760 --> 01:10:04.479 the same thing independently to the sheriff or the police department level Land Texas. 961 01:10:05.960 --> 01:10:10.720 But by nineteen fifty seven, everybody was so busy arguing with the Air Force 962 01:10:10.800 --> 01:10:14.600 about what was real and what was not, that nobody was bothering to investigate 963 01:10:14.680 --> 01:10:18.880 the case in depth, and we would have much better information had we now 964 01:10:19.000 --> 01:10:21.479 had those sort of arguments. Keijo said, well, there were nine people 965 01:10:21.520 --> 01:10:25.840 who saw the object and the Air Forces now there was only three people. 966 01:10:26.279 --> 01:10:29.920 And you go through the Air Force file and the documentation available, you find 967 01:10:29.960 --> 01:10:32.520 people at thirteen separate locations it saw this thing and had it interact with the 968 01:10:32.640 --> 01:10:36.840 environment, and there's now information that suggests the sheriff who said, well I 969 01:10:36.920 --> 01:10:40.720 saw the red light in the distance, I didn't get close. I actually 970 01:10:40.800 --> 01:10:44.000 got close enough for it to stall his car engine and that's based on what 971 01:10:44.479 --> 01:10:46.279 his family said. But he had also told him on the Air Force asked 972 01:10:46.319 --> 01:10:50.239 me not to talk about it, and oftentimes the Air Force would ask people, 973 01:10:50.279 --> 01:10:55.039 well, you know, don't talk about your siding, not threatening them 974 01:10:55.079 --> 01:10:59.439 with anyoney, just asked them not to talk, and they wouldn't. They 975 01:11:00.239 --> 01:11:06.760 clammed up at that point. Um Sheriff Wilcox from from Roswell said that when 976 01:11:08.239 --> 01:11:12.000 reporters called him after the Evans, he as well, I'm working with those 977 01:11:12.079 --> 01:11:14.960 boys out at the base and I can't really talk about it. Didn't say 978 01:11:15.000 --> 01:11:15.960 anything about being threatened or any of that. I just said, I, 979 01:11:16.039 --> 01:11:20.560 you know, I can't talk about it. So you know, we've got 980 01:11:20.600 --> 01:11:24.760 those problems in ufology as well, which is kind of a divergent from where 981 01:11:24.800 --> 01:11:29.119 we were going. Hey, I've had a couple of questions come in the 982 01:11:29.199 --> 01:11:32.720 chat rooms quite active tonight, and I haven't really looked for any questions in 983 01:11:32.800 --> 01:11:36.680 there yet. I did catch one earlier that I wrote down, but someone 984 01:11:36.760 --> 01:11:43.960 just emailed me earlier and asked what you thought about the Aurora, Texas case, 985 01:11:44.119 --> 01:11:46.560 which I thought was I don't hope. I want to use the word 986 01:11:46.600 --> 01:11:51.720 debunked, but it heines, Yeah, it's a hoax. It's a hoax. 987 01:11:53.399 --> 01:11:56.760 Well, it was explained right. It was a It was a hoax. 988 01:11:56.920 --> 01:12:00.520 It was just a hoax. Nothing happened. Nothing happened. But here's 989 01:12:00.520 --> 01:12:04.840 the interesting part that people don't realize. Number One is the reporter who initially 990 01:12:04.920 --> 01:12:09.880 reported it did it because he wanted people to become interested in Aurora, Texas. 991 01:12:10.399 --> 01:12:13.319 That was his hometown and he was trying to get people interested in Texas 992 01:12:13.359 --> 01:12:17.479 because the railroad had gone had bypassed Aurora. But the other thing is within 993 01:12:17.600 --> 01:12:21.079 ten years of this event, which took place in April I think April seventeenth 994 01:12:21.119 --> 01:12:25.720 of nine, eighteen ninety seven. Within ten years of that, there were 995 01:12:25.760 --> 01:12:29.520 two books written about the history of Wise County, Aurora's and Wise County. 996 01:12:30.880 --> 01:12:36.000 Neither of those books mentioned this event. I'm thinking if there was a crash 997 01:12:36.079 --> 01:12:44.640 of some kind of bizarre ship an airship in Aurora, Texas in eighteen ninety 998 01:12:44.680 --> 01:12:48.359 seven, without the CIA and the Air Force and everybody trying to suppress the 999 01:12:48.439 --> 01:12:54.960 information, it would have been mentioned in those books. Wow, here's something 1000 01:12:55.000 --> 01:12:58.680 interesting that happened in Aurora back in eighteen ninety seven, and it's not mentioned 1001 01:12:58.720 --> 01:13:00.119 there, And that, to me is the real for the Aurora, Texas 1002 01:13:00.520 --> 01:13:06.840 case. Not to mention other facts that came out. The signal the uh 1003 01:13:08.079 --> 01:13:12.399 T J Wims, the signal officer that they quoted a lot of the stories, 1004 01:13:12.439 --> 01:13:15.560 he turned out to be the local blacksmith. And for some reason in 1005 01:13:16.239 --> 01:13:19.920 eighteen ninety seven they when you when you thought signal officer, you were thinking 1006 01:13:20.039 --> 01:13:29.760 intelligence. Signal officers, he's interested in communications as opposed to gathering intelligence. 1007 01:13:29.840 --> 01:13:34.000 He was gathering he was he wasn't. But there's there's nothing has ever been 1008 01:13:34.079 --> 01:13:41.319 found my blog, I have pictures of the graveyard where the uh the ninety 1009 01:13:41.359 --> 01:13:46.640 seven airship or hoaxes. The Great Great Alexander Hamilton calf napping turned out to 1010 01:13:46.680 --> 01:13:53.359 be a hoax, and Jerry Clark interviewed the daughter of Alexander Hamilton. Yeah, 1011 01:13:53.439 --> 01:13:58.239 not the guy killed by reading kidnapped, And then they found the remains 1012 01:13:58.279 --> 01:14:01.119 of it in a field like it had been dropped from the sky, which 1013 01:14:01.560 --> 01:14:06.720 were really interesting in the days of cattle mutilations. But Jerry Clark talked to 1014 01:14:06.760 --> 01:14:10.560 the daughter and she said, no, it didn't happen. My father belonged 1015 01:14:10.560 --> 01:14:15.039 to a liar's club and they were making stuff up. But then then m 1016 01:14:15.640 --> 01:14:24.600 Eddie Board found a story in a newspaper from eighteen ninety seven in Atrikin, 1017 01:14:24.720 --> 01:14:28.199 Kansas, I think it was anyway, he found a story in there where 1018 01:14:28.239 --> 01:14:32.720 Hamilton and sent owners and I made the whole thing up so that so you've 1019 01:14:32.800 --> 01:14:35.319 got, you know, the documentation the story was made up. So an 1020 01:14:35.319 --> 01:14:41.199 awful lot of the stories you go back in the airship stories, there's a 1021 01:14:41.239 --> 01:14:45.399 lot of them where the people are talking about their building airships so they can 1022 01:14:45.439 --> 01:14:50.640 go to cubiited bomb the Spanish because this is just prior to the Spanish American 1023 01:14:50.720 --> 01:14:55.960 War. In eighteen ninety eight, there was a wonderful story that I read 1024 01:14:56.000 --> 01:14:59.600 in the Cedar Rapids Gazette and had a story article of the thing that had 1025 01:14:59.680 --> 01:15:05.199 cracked Waterloo, Iowa or landed emergency landed there and the professor who had built 1026 01:15:05.239 --> 01:15:10.079 the thing was killed and they were talking about it, and there was an 1027 01:15:10.119 --> 01:15:13.279 illustration in the Cedar Rapids Gazette that I had, of course used a number 1028 01:15:13.279 --> 01:15:17.039 of times with the permission of the gazette. And I did a book called 1029 01:15:17.560 --> 01:15:21.760 I Think It's the Alien Mysteries Book, and one of the editor's jobs was 1030 01:15:21.800 --> 01:15:27.479 to find photographs for the book. The guy found a photograph of this thing 1031 01:15:27.560 --> 01:15:30.880 that had landed in Waterloo, Iowa. He had a photograph of it, 1032 01:15:30.720 --> 01:15:32.680 and so it appears in the book, and I put it up on my 1033 01:15:32.760 --> 01:15:36.319 blog too, so you can see the illustration that was done by the gazette 1034 01:15:36.359 --> 01:15:42.279 and the actual photograph of the thing. But one of the guys, one 1035 01:15:42.319 --> 01:15:45.800 of the guys was recognized as a Waterloo resident, and the whole thing collapsed 1036 01:15:45.840 --> 01:15:48.279 at that point because they realized it was a hoax and get your garbage off 1037 01:15:48.319 --> 01:15:53.960 our fairgrounds type thing. But what fascinated me was it was an actual photograph 1038 01:15:54.760 --> 01:15:57.439 and I never thought to go to Waterloo and look at the courier to see 1039 01:15:57.439 --> 01:16:00.600 if there was a photograph of the thing. Because there was, there was 1040 01:16:00.600 --> 01:16:03.119 a holograph of it. Kind of blew me away. Yeah, yeah, 1041 01:16:03.600 --> 01:16:09.640 um, what are you know along those lines there? You know, because 1042 01:16:09.720 --> 01:16:13.920 what happens is sometimes once a story is out there, it's out there so 1043 01:16:14.079 --> 01:16:16.920 long that people just take it as fact, you know, without um, 1044 01:16:17.960 --> 01:16:23.239 without really looking into it. Are there's some other fairly sizable stories like that 1045 01:16:23.439 --> 01:16:28.760 that you're aware of that uh you know, like for instance, I'm trying 1046 01:16:28.760 --> 01:16:35.039 to remember there's an early one that that was claimed I've heard claimed to be 1047 01:16:35.319 --> 01:16:39.880 a hoax, you know, right after the Kenneth Arnold's sighting or just before 1048 01:16:39.960 --> 01:16:44.319 it. Um Island, Yeah, Maury Island? Is that a hoax? 1049 01:16:44.399 --> 01:16:46.560 Do you know? Yeah? Absolutely? Yeah. See, there there's a 1050 01:16:46.640 --> 01:16:49.920 couple like that that I end up being hoaxes. And that's another one that 1051 01:16:50.159 --> 01:16:55.960 almost is down in you know, the UFO lore as a solid case. 1052 01:16:56.800 --> 01:17:00.760 If you if you go back and you the one a thing with the Internet 1053 01:17:00.840 --> 01:17:02.960 is you can check all of this stuff out now. And what you have 1054 01:17:03.159 --> 01:17:08.119 to do is look at multiple sources. You can't find a single source and 1055 01:17:08.239 --> 01:17:12.800 read about Marie Island and determine well, that's the truth. You have to 1056 01:17:12.880 --> 01:17:15.840 look at multiple sources and see what they have to say and compare all that 1057 01:17:16.039 --> 01:17:19.720 information and documentation and then decide for yourself whether it's a hoax. And I 1058 01:17:19.800 --> 01:17:24.760 believe Morey Islands as a hoax. It turns out the harbor patrolman, which 1059 01:17:24.920 --> 01:17:28.960 gives them some sort of status, were not harbor patrolman. They were in 1060 01:17:29.079 --> 01:17:35.720 fact scavenger salvage operators in Pugeit Sound and they would take their boat around and 1061 01:17:35.760 --> 01:17:39.920 they would pull logs out of Puget Sound or records. They could find out 1062 01:17:39.920 --> 01:17:42.600 a Puget Sound and take it and sell it. This is the story of 1063 01:17:43.319 --> 01:17:47.119 They saw six don't it shaped UFOs flying in formation, and one of them 1064 01:17:47.199 --> 01:17:50.439 was spewing metal out because it seemed to have been in some kind of trouble, 1065 01:17:50.520 --> 01:17:55.399 and the metal fell on their boat and it injured the guy's son, 1066 01:17:55.760 --> 01:18:00.680 Harold Dall's son. I think it was killed the dog, But people have 1067 01:18:00.760 --> 01:18:04.319 found Harold Dolls Sonny's not never happened. You know, you go to the 1068 01:18:04.439 --> 01:18:09.640 hospital, and you can't find any records of the kid being treated. All 1069 01:18:09.680 --> 01:18:11.680 those sorts of things. You have to look at all of that sort of 1070 01:18:11.720 --> 01:18:15.239 thing. The sad thing about it is Kenneth Arnold was asked to investigate the 1071 01:18:15.319 --> 01:18:20.239 case by Ray Palmer, who was a editor of a science fiction magazine, 1072 01:18:20.520 --> 01:18:24.600 Amazing Stories, I think it was, and they had been doing the Shaver 1073 01:18:24.720 --> 01:18:28.159 mystery, which was this idea that there were the flying saucers came out of 1074 01:18:28.199 --> 01:18:30.399 the inner Earth, and there were good robots and there were bad robots, 1075 01:18:30.439 --> 01:18:33.560 and they were fighting some kind of war, and all the bad stuff that 1076 01:18:33.640 --> 01:18:41.119 happened on Earth the surface of the Earth was the result of these evil robots. 1077 01:18:41.720 --> 01:18:45.119 And when the flying Saucer things started, Palmer thought, ah validation for 1078 01:18:45.279 --> 01:18:54.560 my stories about about this sort of thing, and so he wanted Kenneth Arnold 1079 01:18:54.640 --> 01:18:57.960 to investigate the Maury Island story. When he learned about it, Marnold went 1080 01:18:58.039 --> 01:19:03.680 to Tacoma, Washington to interview they. He called two Air Force officers who 1081 01:19:03.760 --> 01:19:08.760 had been their Bobrey. Air Forces officers actually too, who had come up 1082 01:19:08.800 --> 01:19:15.000 to investigate his sighting. M. Davidson and and I can't remember the other 1083 01:19:15.039 --> 01:19:19.600 guy's name Brown Brown. He called them to help him with the investigation. 1084 01:19:19.640 --> 01:19:23.840 They got up there, interviewed Doll and Chrissman, who was the other harber 1085 01:19:23.920 --> 01:19:27.720 Trollman, and realized it was a hoax right away. In the middle they 1086 01:19:27.760 --> 01:19:30.239 had recovered we just kind of a useless slag. They didn't want to take 1087 01:19:30.279 --> 01:19:39.199 the samples back to their Fort ham of Hamilton Air Force Base, but they 1088 01:19:39.239 --> 01:19:42.079 were pressed on up. They got in their B twenty five to fly back 1089 01:19:42.159 --> 01:19:45.720 to Hamilton and the thing crash. So of course then there's all speculation that 1090 01:19:45.079 --> 01:19:48.640 the aircraft was shot down to keep the samples out of the hands of the 1091 01:19:48.760 --> 01:19:53.399 military and that sort of thing. Before they took off to go back home, 1092 01:19:53.479 --> 01:19:57.359 they'd talked to the operations officer at the base where they landed the B 1093 01:19:57.479 --> 01:20:00.680 twenty five and said, nah, They said it was a hoax. They 1094 01:20:00.720 --> 01:20:02.800 didn't say anything to Arnold because they didn't want to embarrass him. They liked 1095 01:20:02.920 --> 01:20:05.960 Arnold and they thought Arnold had you know, Arnold had a good sighting and 1096 01:20:06.199 --> 01:20:12.119 Arnold Arnold was just out of his depth. And so you know that Marie 1097 01:20:12.199 --> 01:20:15.119 Island turned out to be a hoax. When when you began talking about it, 1098 01:20:15.560 --> 01:20:18.640 the sighting that came to mind was the Child's wooded sighting from nineteen forty 1099 01:20:18.680 --> 01:20:21.800 eight, where the two airline pilots saw a cigar shaped craft shoot by them 1100 01:20:21.840 --> 01:20:28.279 with a lighted cockpit and square windows along the side, and the first reaction 1101 01:20:28.399 --> 01:20:31.119 I think of Heineck was that he sounded like a bow light to him, 1102 01:20:31.840 --> 01:20:35.399 and they didn't see it. They didn't didn't believe it. A lot of 1103 01:20:35.439 --> 01:20:39.279 the military got into it and thought this was a really solid sighting, and 1104 01:20:39.359 --> 01:20:42.840 it was kind of one of the precipitating events for the great estimate of the 1105 01:20:42.920 --> 01:20:47.760 situation that we hear about in uphology in nineteen sixty eight. I think the 1106 01:20:47.880 --> 01:20:53.239 Zon four re entered. It was a Soviet spacecraft and it fell and it 1107 01:20:53.359 --> 01:20:56.680 broke up. Most people knew what it was, saw what it was, 1108 01:20:56.800 --> 01:21:00.760 but a lot of people thought it was some kind of our shape craft was 1109 01:21:00.319 --> 01:21:04.520 windows along the side, and what happens is is the thing begins to break 1110 01:21:04.680 --> 01:21:10.600 up apart and it strings out. You get this idea that's a cigar shape 1111 01:21:10.640 --> 01:21:13.880 with windows along the side. And some of the drawings that were made of 1112 01:21:14.000 --> 01:21:16.920 the Zon for reentry in which we know it was resembled to a great extent 1113 01:21:17.399 --> 01:21:21.640 the drawings made by Childs and Witted. I think that case, which was 1114 01:21:23.560 --> 01:21:27.640 I guess one of the found foundations of the UFO field, is now explained 1115 01:21:27.840 --> 01:21:32.399 as a bowline. There was on YouTube something called meteor compilation. I think 1116 01:21:32.439 --> 01:21:35.840 it's three minutes of nineteen seconds that I found and what I want somebody put 1117 01:21:35.880 --> 01:21:42.039 together meteor falls that had been recorded on video. And you look at some 1118 01:21:42.119 --> 01:21:44.880 of those and you're thinking, you know, as a thing breaks up and 1119 01:21:45.079 --> 01:21:48.119 the lights begin to strink out, string out, if you just catch a 1120 01:21:48.199 --> 01:21:53.399 glimpse of it, well, it's psychologist I'm called gestalt, where you put 1121 01:21:53.439 --> 01:21:57.840 all these things together in your mind. You see an image even though there's 1122 01:21:57.840 --> 01:22:00.159 no image there. You try to try to group of the whole thing together. 1123 01:22:00.479 --> 01:22:02.479 So if you just get a quick look at it, it's going to 1124 01:22:02.560 --> 01:22:06.199 look like a lighted cockpit which square windows along the side. And I think 1125 01:22:06.279 --> 01:22:12.720 that's a legitimate explanation for Childs wooded, which does not diminish the UFO field 1126 01:22:12.720 --> 01:22:15.840 at all. Just here we have an explanation for this case that was basically 1127 01:22:15.960 --> 01:22:20.119 unexplained for the longest time, at least in the world of the ufology. 1128 01:22:20.159 --> 01:22:24.079 The Air Force wrote it off as a bowl eight, then changed it, 1129 01:22:24.159 --> 01:22:27.119 and then wrote it off as a bowl eight again. But I think the 1130 01:22:27.199 --> 01:22:30.399 point is that in that respect, the Air Force got that one right. 1131 01:22:30.279 --> 01:22:32.600 They were right on that one. But that's a case. It was kind 1132 01:22:32.640 --> 01:22:39.640 of a classic UFO case that we now have, I think a legitimate explanation 1133 01:22:39.760 --> 01:22:42.479 for. So we can look at those sort of things. And that's the 1134 01:22:42.560 --> 01:22:45.319 thing we have to do is go back and look at these things carefully. 1135 01:22:45.479 --> 01:22:48.439 When you get back to eighteen ninety seven, you have to say, you 1136 01:22:48.479 --> 01:22:53.000 have to remember that the reporting there was a little bit looser than it is 1137 01:22:53.039 --> 01:22:55.399 today. And then I think, you know, fake news, And I 1138 01:22:55.479 --> 01:22:59.199 mean we see example after example that in the day's world, where the reporters 1139 01:22:59.239 --> 01:23:04.920 just run off on tangents without knowing the full story, and after days we 1140 01:23:05.079 --> 01:23:10.800 begin to filter things out and realize what's going on. But in eighteen ninety 1141 01:23:10.840 --> 01:23:14.920 seven, um, it was the Hearst Corporation was pushing for a war with 1142 01:23:15.039 --> 01:23:17.880 Spain, and when the main blew up in the Harbor, they pushed the 1143 01:23:17.920 --> 01:23:20.840 story that it was sabotaged, and that kind of dragged us into that war. 1144 01:23:23.199 --> 01:23:24.960 So you had a lot of that, and you had a lot of 1145 01:23:25.000 --> 01:23:29.039 the stuff where the reporters were making things up, and the Great the Great 1146 01:23:29.039 --> 01:23:31.399 Airship is the prime example of that that the reporters would make up the stories 1147 01:23:31.439 --> 01:23:35.640 to have something in the newspaper. There were telegraphers in Iowa who kept the 1148 01:23:35.680 --> 01:23:39.239 story alive. You know, one telegra for in the town would say, 1149 01:23:39.239 --> 01:23:41.199 well, it's over here, and it's heading toward the next town. And 1150 01:23:41.279 --> 01:23:44.680 pretty soon the telegra for there would come on it, Yeah it's over here, 1151 01:23:44.720 --> 01:23:46.800 and now it's heading to a different town, and so they we kind 1152 01:23:46.840 --> 01:23:49.680 of track it around the state of Iowa. But it was all made up 1153 01:23:49.720 --> 01:23:53.520 by the telegraphers and just having a little bit of fun. Now, the 1154 01:23:53.600 --> 01:23:58.560 reporter that was that was that the late nineteenth century. That was eighteen ninety 1155 01:23:58.760 --> 01:24:01.840 The Great Airship of eighteen ninety seven. Jerry Clark and I disagree on this. 1156 01:24:02.079 --> 01:24:05.159 I think it was all bogus. I don't think there was ever an 1157 01:24:05.199 --> 01:24:10.159 airship. Jerry Clark thinks there was a core of good sightings that came out 1158 01:24:10.199 --> 01:24:13.880 of California in eighteen ninety six that kind of sparked us. I think I 1159 01:24:13.960 --> 01:24:16.039 think Jerry's wrong on that. But and Jerry thinks I'm wrong. So you 1160 01:24:16.079 --> 01:24:19.239 know, it's one of those things where we disagree, but we can disagree 1161 01:24:19.399 --> 01:24:23.079 as gentlemen and say, well, you know, we'll have to agree to 1162 01:24:23.159 --> 01:24:27.880 disagree. But I think the eighteen ninety seven airship is basically the figment of 1163 01:24:27.920 --> 01:24:31.199 a lot of people's imagination and a lot of hoaxing going on. People just 1164 01:24:31.319 --> 01:24:34.760 having a good time with the stories, right right. You know, one 1165 01:24:34.800 --> 01:24:38.840 thing I forgot to explain at the beginning of the show, some of just 1166 01:24:39.000 --> 01:24:43.680 asking the chat room is why is my show Monday night? And why is 1167 01:24:43.720 --> 01:24:46.960 it later? And I never I never even mentioned that. So, yeah, 1168 01:24:47.039 --> 01:24:50.680 it was you. It's my fault, my fault. Yeah, but 1169 01:24:50.760 --> 01:24:55.119 that's okay. I've looked at it this you know, I look at it 1170 01:24:55.239 --> 01:24:58.960 this way. It's always great having you on, and I don't mind accommodating 1171 01:24:59.000 --> 01:25:01.680 you in this s and circumstance. So yeah, well I appreciate that. 1172 01:25:02.119 --> 01:25:08.760 Yeah, well, Tuesday nights at seven o'clock hours, just I can't do 1173 01:25:08.880 --> 01:25:12.279 it at seven o'clock on Tuesday nights. Yeah, so it was my fault. 1174 01:25:12.319 --> 01:25:14.880 And I you know, if we could have done it an hour later 1175 01:25:14.960 --> 01:25:16.720 or whatever, that would have been fine. But you know, Tuesday night 1176 01:25:16.840 --> 01:25:19.960 just didn't work for me, so yeah, yeah, and I appreciate the 1177 01:25:20.000 --> 01:25:24.600 accommodation too, by the way, Yeah, taking doing this for me, 1178 01:25:24.880 --> 01:25:27.479 helping me out. Well, it seems like we have a lot more people 1179 01:25:27.520 --> 01:25:30.840 on YouTube. Maybe it's a good time spot. Maybe you help me discover 1180 01:25:30.000 --> 01:25:35.039 something. I'm not sure. Someone wrote early on and when we first started 1181 01:25:35.119 --> 01:25:40.279 the show they wanted you two. And I think you've talked about this on 1182 01:25:40.439 --> 01:25:44.239 a show, maybe not the last one, the time you were on before. 1183 01:25:44.640 --> 01:25:47.840 But what your thoughts are about Roswell, now, that's what the question 1184 01:25:48.000 --> 01:25:50.800 is. Yeah, give me a chance to promote a book. I did 1185 01:25:50.880 --> 01:25:55.680 a book called Roswell in the twenty first Century, which is available right now 1186 01:25:55.760 --> 01:26:00.079 this minute on Kindle. You could be reading it in thirty seconds. But 1187 01:26:00.239 --> 01:26:02.840 what I did was I looked at the Roswell case as a cold case, 1188 01:26:03.800 --> 01:26:08.720 gone back to all the witnesses, gone back to the documentation, gone back 1189 01:26:08.760 --> 01:26:13.319 to everything that I could find on Roswell, looking at it as dispassionately as 1190 01:26:13.399 --> 01:26:17.239 I possibly could, and then put it all together in the book. And 1191 01:26:17.319 --> 01:26:23.880 I think that while in the early nineteen nineties a lot of us thought that 1192 01:26:24.720 --> 01:26:28.319 Roswell was a very robust case with a lot of good stuff. Since that 1193 01:26:28.520 --> 01:26:31.720 time, Laval witnesses have blown up. Lat of witnesses proved out to be 1194 01:26:32.319 --> 01:26:36.359 proved to be less than candid with their descriptions of what they saw. We 1195 01:26:36.520 --> 01:26:41.680 haven't been able to find any documentation. I'm concerned that we couldn't find a 1196 01:26:41.800 --> 01:26:46.119 diary somebody kept a private diary that explains some of this stuff. Although Denise 1197 01:26:46.239 --> 01:26:49.920 Marcel and some of the Marcell family said that their father, their grandfather, 1198 01:26:50.479 --> 01:26:55.159 Jesse Marcell Senior, did keep a diary and it's in their hands and they're 1199 01:26:55.880 --> 01:26:59.479 doing various testings so that when the skeptics say, ah, you guys just 1200 01:26:59.600 --> 01:27:02.159 wrote this last week, they can say no, here here's the evidence that 1201 01:27:02.199 --> 01:27:08.279 show that this diary was completed in the nineteen forty seven nineteen forty eight time 1202 01:27:08.359 --> 01:27:14.880 frame. We did find one diary kept by Ruth Barnett, which has to 1203 01:27:14.960 --> 01:27:18.079 do with the planes of Sant Augustine crashed it delt was brought into the Roswell 1204 01:27:18.119 --> 01:27:24.640 case. No mention of anything on the planes of Sant Augustine in that diary, 1205 01:27:24.680 --> 01:27:28.720 which was very disturbing, suggesting that you know, we got the time 1206 01:27:28.760 --> 01:27:31.199 frame wrong, or nothing happened for some reason. Barney Barnett was spinning the 1207 01:27:31.239 --> 01:27:34.680 tail. But we never find anything like that. So I looked at all 1208 01:27:34.760 --> 01:27:39.239 of this and put it together as best I could in the book Roswal in 1209 01:27:39.239 --> 01:27:44.239 the twenty first century looked in depth at the Project Mogul explanation, which I 1210 01:27:44.399 --> 01:27:49.680 am absolutely astonished that we have a document written by the man who was in 1211 01:27:49.840 --> 01:27:55.159 charge of Project Mogul, Albert Crary, doctor Creary, who says on the 1212 01:27:55.279 --> 01:27:59.760 flight that supposedly landed on the Braswel ranch and explains the whole thing, wrote 1213 01:28:00.039 --> 01:28:03.880 on the date June fourth, no flight today. Excuse me, doesn't that 1214 01:28:04.039 --> 01:28:09.560 pretty well rule out Mogul? I think you know that sort of thing. 1215 01:28:09.680 --> 01:28:14.079 I looked at the MJA twelve documents in depth, looked at a lot of 1216 01:28:14.159 --> 01:28:16.840 these sorts of things in depth, tried to put the story together at best 1217 01:28:17.279 --> 01:28:21.840 I could, based as it is a cold case. So my feeling is 1218 01:28:23.680 --> 01:28:27.319 it's not nearly as robust as it was. Some of the witnesses aren't as 1219 01:28:27.399 --> 01:28:30.319 good as we thought they were. Some of the evidence is not panned out 1220 01:28:30.399 --> 01:28:33.279 like we hoped it would. And when we get right down to it. 1221 01:28:33.399 --> 01:28:40.640 We're left with no explanation for what fell at Roswell. And that's I can 1222 01:28:40.800 --> 01:28:45.000 lean toward the extraterrestrial because there I can find no terrestrial explanation for it. 1223 01:28:45.960 --> 01:28:48.520 But by the same token, that may be a leap that I do not 1224 01:28:48.720 --> 01:28:53.640 want to take without some better evidence for it. So where we are right 1225 01:28:53.720 --> 01:28:57.840 now is we've got some very interesting stories about the Roswell case, and we 1226 01:28:57.920 --> 01:29:00.760 got to look at all of that stuff. We have no nation for what 1227 01:29:00.960 --> 01:29:04.600 fell at Roswell. Does is that sufficient to take us to the extraterrestial I 1228 01:29:04.680 --> 01:29:10.680 think the person reading the book or studying the case has to make that determination 1229 01:29:10.760 --> 01:29:15.079 for himself or herself. Well. Another thing, besides the diaries, people 1230 01:29:15.159 --> 01:29:20.039 write letters, you know, And I'm surprised the letter has never surfaced that 1231 01:29:20.319 --> 01:29:23.560 someone wrote, you know, either from the base, you know, to 1232 01:29:23.640 --> 01:29:26.600 a loved one or whatever, say hey mom, you know you can't believe 1233 01:29:26.640 --> 01:29:30.520 what I saw, or something like that. And I've still got all the 1234 01:29:30.640 --> 01:29:35.720 letters that I wrote home from Vietnam in sixty eight and sixty nine, which 1235 01:29:35.760 --> 01:29:40.199 gives you an idea of how old I am if my picture didn't give it 1236 01:29:40.279 --> 01:29:44.359 away. But uh, but I have I have. I have those letters, 1237 01:29:44.399 --> 01:29:46.600 and I know my wife's got though the letters that her father wrote home 1238 01:29:46.680 --> 01:29:51.840 to his to her mother from World War two. So families keep those sorts 1239 01:29:51.880 --> 01:29:57.520 of things. And the best we can look at is Inez Wilcox, who 1240 01:29:57.680 --> 01:30:02.960 was the uh sure wife the sheriff George Wilcox in Rosinal in nineteen forty seven. 1241 01:30:03.000 --> 01:30:09.319 And Wilcox was involved and she did a story she thought for She wrote 1242 01:30:09.319 --> 01:30:12.840 it for the reader's digest. I guess called three four years in the County 1243 01:30:12.920 --> 01:30:15.920 Jail and the gag was, of course, she was a matron for the 1244 01:30:16.039 --> 01:30:20.119 jail when her husband was the sheriff, so they weren't incarcerated, they were 1245 01:30:20.239 --> 01:30:25.800 running the jail. And in there she put the story of the of the 1246 01:30:28.079 --> 01:30:31.600 seeing the little the crash and the little men. The problem with it is 1247 01:30:31.760 --> 01:30:36.199 it's not dated. We don't know when she wrote it, and it was 1248 01:30:36.399 --> 01:30:41.439 an addition that she added to the story after the original story had been written. 1249 01:30:41.760 --> 01:30:45.000 It never got published, but it was I think it was like page 1250 01:30:45.039 --> 01:30:49.800 eight A or something like this, and there was a paragraph about the UFO 1251 01:30:49.880 --> 01:30:55.640 the Flying Saucer crash. But it's not dated. I found out that she 1252 01:30:55.800 --> 01:30:59.680 had passed away in nineteen eighty nine, while the Rosale Incident book came out 1253 01:30:59.760 --> 01:31:03.079 in nineteen eighty so it wasn't like you, So it could she could have 1254 01:31:03.119 --> 01:31:09.159 been intaminated from that source or some of the documentaries I think in Search of 1255 01:31:09.359 --> 01:31:14.640 did something on Roswell in the early nineteen eighties, So it's possible that she 1256 01:31:14.800 --> 01:31:17.560 had seen that. But that you know, we're not that document It's interesting, 1257 01:31:18.039 --> 01:31:21.239 but without a date on it, we're just kind of well, you 1258 01:31:21.319 --> 01:31:26.399 know, she could have written it long after the story became well known in 1259 01:31:26.479 --> 01:31:31.439 the public arena. Also, when you were talking about the Marcel's supposed diary, 1260 01:31:32.680 --> 01:31:36.520 it would be very hard to prove that that diary is from nineteen forty 1261 01:31:36.560 --> 01:31:41.720 seven because there could be so many uh, you know, there are I 1262 01:31:42.119 --> 01:31:45.760 just see so many different ways people even fake thinks as early as Abraham Lincoln 1263 01:31:46.039 --> 01:31:50.560 autographs and things like that. There's there's ways to to find Civil War paper, 1264 01:31:50.600 --> 01:31:55.880 there's ways to find, you know, nineteen forties diaries that are empty, 1265 01:31:56.000 --> 01:31:57.960 and you know, I mean, it's going to be a real tough 1266 01:31:58.039 --> 01:32:00.640 one to prove. I think, Well, but but then you can look 1267 01:32:00.680 --> 01:32:05.760 at the ink and you can look for anachronisms. UM. There are things 1268 01:32:05.800 --> 01:32:11.760 that you can be done to validate it, validate the um the diary. 1269 01:32:12.079 --> 01:32:15.359 I don't think that Marcel family would participate in any kind of hope that I'm 1270 01:32:15.399 --> 01:32:18.880 just talking about the skeptics, But I think, but I think the ink 1271 01:32:18.920 --> 01:32:24.239 can be the ink can be UM. The formulation of the ink can be 1272 01:32:24.720 --> 01:32:28.239 examined. That's true. Is if it's pencil, then you know, that's 1273 01:32:28.439 --> 01:32:32.439 that's a little tougher you been around, you know, But you can take 1274 01:32:32.479 --> 01:32:38.439 a look at the way the graphite is on the page and things like that 1275 01:32:38.680 --> 01:32:41.840 to see if it's aged properly. So there are things you can do. 1276 01:32:42.439 --> 01:32:48.159 The big thing is talking in that arena the Dala Pinya diary from the Alamo, 1277 01:32:49.079 --> 01:32:53.560 which is the one where the story that Davy Crockett surrendered comes from. 1278 01:32:54.439 --> 01:32:57.680 And uh, the idea. You know, they looked at the ink, 1279 01:32:57.760 --> 01:33:00.199 they looked at all of that sort of thing, and they were unable to 1280 01:33:00.319 --> 01:33:02.800 establish the provenance of the diary. So you can believe that the day La 1281 01:33:02.920 --> 01:33:08.119 Penya diary is an authentic document from the Texas Revolution, or it was a 1282 01:33:08.239 --> 01:33:11.880 modern forgery, you know, depending on what you want to believe. And 1283 01:33:12.039 --> 01:33:15.479 so we understand that on the other side of that coin, we had the 1284 01:33:15.560 --> 01:33:20.199 great faked um George W. Bush documents that got Dan rather in trouble, 1285 01:33:20.840 --> 01:33:28.199 and they were able to establish that the documents were modern right, and he 1286 01:33:28.399 --> 01:33:31.960 just went down the tubar. They wanted to believe so badly that George W. 1287 01:33:32.159 --> 01:33:38.600 Bush had not fulfilled his duty properly, and the documentations that they had 1288 01:33:38.680 --> 01:33:43.359 that proved it. Just the documents they had were copies. They didn't have 1289 01:33:43.439 --> 01:33:45.439 the real documents. And at that point, you know, you're dead in 1290 01:33:45.479 --> 01:33:49.399 the water and trying to validate this stuff. And after they got called on 1291 01:33:49.520 --> 01:33:55.319 it, then they began to look at it. Specifically. Peter Titel, 1292 01:33:55.479 --> 01:34:00.520 who by the way, was the first person approached by Stan Freedman to validate 1293 01:34:00.560 --> 01:34:03.039 the MJ twelve documents and believes them to be a hoax, was called by 1294 01:34:03.159 --> 01:34:08.560 CBS to validate these papers, and by the time he got back to him, 1295 01:34:08.600 --> 01:34:10.520 he was out of town or something. By the time he got back 1296 01:34:10.560 --> 01:34:15.119 to him, they had found other document for document examiners to look at it. 1297 01:34:15.239 --> 01:34:17.880 But Peter Titel was originally approached by CBS to validate those documents. So 1298 01:34:17.960 --> 01:34:24.880 now we got Peter Titel, who's tied into MJ twelve and the great George 1299 01:34:24.960 --> 01:34:30.960 W. Bush document forgery fiasco wowow, which by the way, I should 1300 01:34:31.000 --> 01:34:34.600 point out, does not mean that George W. Bush fulfilled his National Guard 1301 01:34:34.680 --> 01:34:39.720 service properly. It means the documents they were going to to prove it were 1302 01:34:39.760 --> 01:34:45.960 forgeries and they could they couldn't find other documents to support the allegations. Yeah, 1303 01:34:46.520 --> 01:34:50.079 I think I'm going to I think I'm going to attempt to take a 1304 01:34:51.000 --> 01:34:56.800 phone call now, as I mentioned earlier, on this little tiny Mac computer, 1305 01:34:57.119 --> 01:34:59.800 and I'm not really sure if I'm going to be able to, but 1306 01:35:00.000 --> 01:35:02.760 that phone number is going up on the line right now. If someone wants 1307 01:35:02.800 --> 01:35:06.600 to call in and ask a question, that number six h three nine six 1308 01:35:06.760 --> 01:35:13.399 seven four zero three zero. I get calls all the time off off you 1309 01:35:13.479 --> 01:35:16.960 know, off hours. And someone called the other day and asked to speak 1310 01:35:17.000 --> 01:35:20.520 to Stanton Friedman because I did this show with him several months ago. So 1311 01:35:20.640 --> 01:35:24.039 they watch it on YouTube and watch the number come up. So this is 1312 01:35:24.119 --> 01:35:29.560 showtime only. This phone numbers active showtime only. And so if someone wants 1313 01:35:29.600 --> 01:35:31.960 to try to call in ahead they like stands phone number I have it. 1314 01:35:33.680 --> 01:35:36.079 I'm sure he'd appreciate me giving it out. Yeah, that's right, let's 1315 01:35:36.079 --> 01:35:43.720 give it over live. Yeah. So so I'm sure there's other questions up 1316 01:35:43.800 --> 01:35:48.239 on the chat and let's see. I just want to see if I can 1317 01:35:48.319 --> 01:35:56.279 pull up anything right now. But the direction that you think until we have 1318 01:35:56.479 --> 01:36:00.479 you know, either someone call in or I find a question and up here? 1319 01:36:00.880 --> 01:36:04.439 What do you think that you think the direction is going pretty good as 1320 01:36:04.520 --> 01:36:11.000 far as u uthology goes, or what's your thoughts on it? You know, 1321 01:36:11.119 --> 01:36:13.840 some people you say they should drain the swamp, you know, on 1322 01:36:13.960 --> 01:36:18.000 and on and on, But what do you think in general? M since 1323 01:36:18.199 --> 01:36:23.000 uh, you know, for instance, since the we have a call coming 1324 01:36:23.039 --> 01:36:26.319 in, it looks like I'm not able to join the call. So we're 1325 01:36:26.359 --> 01:36:30.239 gonna have to take down the call number. I'm sorry. I'm using a 1326 01:36:30.239 --> 01:36:32.039 different computer and I thought it would work. No call tonight. If you 1327 01:36:32.119 --> 01:36:36.800 have any questions, um, please just put that in the chat room and 1328 01:36:36.840 --> 01:36:42.920 I'll try to get to that. And so I basically was asking Kevin, 1329 01:36:42.960 --> 01:36:47.720 what do you think the direction of uthology is going in in general? Oh? 1330 01:36:49.399 --> 01:36:56.760 I'd like to say I'm hopeful, but I see too much nonsense being 1331 01:36:56.840 --> 01:37:01.439 embraced. There was a woman on a radio program, oh a year ago 1332 01:37:01.560 --> 01:37:06.359 or so that decided that her research had proven that none of us had been 1333 01:37:06.680 --> 01:37:13.960 into Iraq. We had actually been to Mars and yeah, and fought on 1334 01:37:14.119 --> 01:37:16.399 Mars, and then we were brainwashed when we came back to be convinced we 1335 01:37:16.479 --> 01:37:21.239 were in Iraq and um, and people buy that nonsense. There's these guys 1336 01:37:21.279 --> 01:37:26.199 claiming to be time travelers. Um. You know, if you're a time 1337 01:37:26.239 --> 01:37:30.239 traveler, give me the lottery numbers, please, thank you. Um, 1338 01:37:30.640 --> 01:37:32.920 tell me what stock to buy tomorrow. You know, what's the price of 1339 01:37:33.000 --> 01:37:36.479 gold? Going to do anything that I could, I could become rich on 1340 01:37:38.239 --> 01:37:42.239 Uh. And they embraced this nonsense. One guy claimed that he had been 1341 01:37:42.399 --> 01:37:47.920 abducted as a teenager, fought on Mars for twenty years and returned been returned 1342 01:37:47.960 --> 01:37:53.800 home like fifteen minutes later after he disappeared through some kind of time manipulation. 1343 01:37:54.319 --> 01:37:59.079 And I'm thinking, people buy this crap, and unfortunately they do. But 1344 01:37:59.199 --> 01:38:01.239 it's been that way since the beginning. You had the contact ease where their 1345 01:38:01.680 --> 01:38:06.840 nonsensical stuff. Georgia Damski was you know, his pals on Venus. I'm 1346 01:38:06.920 --> 01:38:11.039 thinking, Yeah, what kind of metal do they make their spaceships out of? 1347 01:38:11.079 --> 01:38:15.760 Them? On Venus there doesn't make it really really hot. Yeah, 1348 01:38:16.039 --> 01:38:19.800 what kind of air conditioning build do they have? Um? You know, 1349 01:38:20.600 --> 01:38:23.880 and I see that stuff and I think, you know, people just don't 1350 01:38:23.920 --> 01:38:28.399 apply any logic to what they're being told. Some of the stories are just 1351 01:38:28.439 --> 01:38:31.520 so outrageous and people say, yeah, that's true, and the next thing 1352 01:38:31.560 --> 01:38:34.039 you know, they're well, they're spouting that stuff off. And that's kind 1353 01:38:34.079 --> 01:38:38.600 of worrisome. And I know that there's been people waiting for the old garden 1354 01:38:38.640 --> 01:38:41.279 you followed you to die off so the young whipper snappers can take over and 1355 01:38:41.319 --> 01:38:44.279 get us to the answers. What I'm thinking, if there don't have any 1356 01:38:44.319 --> 01:38:47.680 better powers of critical thinking than they've displayed, they're going to take it off 1357 01:38:47.720 --> 01:38:51.439 into a really weird place. Well, I think a lot of that is 1358 01:38:53.199 --> 01:38:57.720 the people that latch onto that are are looking for something to latch onto. 1359 01:38:58.000 --> 01:39:00.439 I think there's a lot more logic well, you know, like the flat 1360 01:39:00.520 --> 01:39:03.640 earthers or you know, any of that. But I think there's a lot 1361 01:39:03.680 --> 01:39:06.840 of people out there that are more you know, well, at least the 1362 01:39:08.000 --> 01:39:10.680 people that listen to the show I get. I get a lot of email. 1363 01:39:10.720 --> 01:39:14.880 They like the fact that I try to follow logic as much as possible 1364 01:39:15.000 --> 01:39:18.439 and try to keep you know, away from the fringe as much as possible. 1365 01:39:18.960 --> 01:39:24.399 So I think there is there's just a second. But on the other 1366 01:39:24.479 --> 01:39:27.640 side of that coin, you know, I come on your program, for 1367 01:39:27.720 --> 01:39:31.119 example, and I try to explain logically with evidence what has happened and what's 1368 01:39:31.159 --> 01:39:33.960 going on, and then I'm attacked and vilified. Well, you're nothing but 1369 01:39:34.039 --> 01:39:38.439 a show for the Air Force. You're some kind of special agent for the 1370 01:39:38.520 --> 01:39:43.640 Air Force with a mission to h disinformation mission. Yeah. I've actually had 1371 01:39:43.680 --> 01:39:48.279 someone write me about you, Yes, something similar. Yeah, well there 1372 01:39:48.359 --> 01:39:51.439 you go. But the point is if you if you look at the evidence 1373 01:39:51.439 --> 01:39:55.199 and where it goes, I go where the evidence goes. That's where you 1374 01:39:55.239 --> 01:39:58.760 should And if and if the evidence doesn't take me there, I'm not going 1375 01:39:58.840 --> 01:40:01.359 to go there. If I wanted to be the number one UFO guy would 1376 01:40:01.359 --> 01:40:06.520 stand moving out of the way. I would brace everything. Yep, cattle 1377 01:40:06.520 --> 01:40:11.199 are being mutilated by UFOs. Yep, crop circles are real. Yep, 1378 01:40:11.279 --> 01:40:15.520 people are being abducted a wholesale you buy into all of you. But yes, 1379 01:40:15.640 --> 01:40:18.720 I was truly on Mars. And now that my my the ten years 1380 01:40:18.760 --> 01:40:23.439 has been since a fifteen years since I got back my security clearances expired, 1381 01:40:23.560 --> 01:40:27.159 I can tell you about the big war on Mars. And it was brilliant 1382 01:40:27.239 --> 01:40:32.279 because what they did was if we were to call an email or buy online 1383 01:40:32.439 --> 01:40:36.000 something from Walmart, we would get it within a week. Talk about the 1384 01:40:36.079 --> 01:40:41.720 distribution system against stuff from Walmart to Mars in a week, for crying out 1385 01:40:41.760 --> 01:40:46.159 loud, we could call home with no time delay, you know, rather 1386 01:40:46.279 --> 01:40:50.279 than you know, eight or nine minutes between wherever we happen to the orbits 1387 01:40:50.319 --> 01:40:53.800 happened to match up wherever it was, maybe as much as twenty minutes, 1388 01:40:53.800 --> 01:40:57.640 we could call home with instantaneous you know, all of that stuff not a 1389 01:40:57.720 --> 01:41:03.479 problem. And so I just cannot embrace all of that stuff. If I've 1390 01:41:03.520 --> 01:41:06.640 got an explanation for case, I've got to give it. You want a 1391 01:41:06.680 --> 01:41:11.479 case that's great, look at level Land. There's no explanation for that. 1392 01:41:11.600 --> 01:41:15.359 And you've got the UFO seen by everybody. That's a wonderful case that suggests 1393 01:41:15.399 --> 01:41:20.479 some kind of visitation. When is that one November of nineteen fifty seven, 1394 01:41:21.319 --> 01:41:29.039 You know, um, there's there's great cases out there that are lost in 1395 01:41:29.359 --> 01:41:33.640 the noise of the crap. Cases that people want to promote that just make 1396 01:41:33.760 --> 01:41:39.640 no sense and don't fit into the UFO a phenomenon properly. Well, let's 1397 01:41:39.680 --> 01:41:43.920 you know, lightness on that case in particular, if you would, but 1398 01:41:44.159 --> 01:41:49.520 level land. Yeah. November two, nineteen fifty seven, M. Pedro 1399 01:41:49.720 --> 01:41:56.159 Cecido, who was a career war veteran, I mentioned that because reward veterans 1400 01:41:56.199 --> 01:42:00.560 deserve some recognition, had his car his truck stall object landed near him, 1401 01:42:00.600 --> 01:42:04.520 the lights faded, the truck stalled. He was panic jumped out of the 1402 01:42:04.560 --> 01:42:08.840 truck, rolled underneath that. The passenger sat there staring at the UFO. 1403 01:42:08.960 --> 01:42:13.039 It took off the car, his truck started. He went and it's not 1404 01:42:13.119 --> 01:42:18.920 clear whether he called the sheriff or he visited the sheriff, but people ignored 1405 01:42:18.960 --> 01:42:24.399 him didn't believe his story. Not long after that, other people began having 1406 01:42:24.479 --> 01:42:31.239 similar circu experiences with UFO approaching them, the car dying, the lights going 1407 01:42:31.319 --> 01:42:39.600 out. There were two farmers in Pettit, Texas who were running two column 1408 01:42:40.159 --> 01:42:45.319 combines. They both died at the same time with the UFO produce closely so 1409 01:42:45.439 --> 01:42:53.159 you've got people at thirteen separate locations talking about these sorts of interactions with the 1410 01:42:53.319 --> 01:42:57.520 environment. The sheriff goes out looking for it. The original story was he 1411 01:42:57.560 --> 01:43:00.279 saw a streak of light in the distance, but the family says no, 1412 01:43:00.359 --> 01:43:03.399 he got a lot closer and his car stalled out. There was information that 1413 01:43:03.520 --> 01:43:10.039 there was a landing trace case. It was burned circle on a ranch close 1414 01:43:10.119 --> 01:43:15.119 to level Land, Texas that the sheriff saw and went out to take a 1415 01:43:15.199 --> 01:43:19.119 look at that. If we had investigated that case in nineteen fifty seven properly, 1416 01:43:20.279 --> 01:43:26.239 rather than the Air Force officer shouldn't say officer Air Force NCO who investigated 1417 01:43:26.600 --> 01:43:29.520 most of the day in level Land talking to a few of the people, 1418 01:43:29.840 --> 01:43:33.079 the Air Force rote it off as ball lightning, a phenomenon they couldn't even 1419 01:43:33.119 --> 01:43:39.039 prove existed in nineteen fifty seven, so they explained an unknown phenomenon with another 1420 01:43:39.159 --> 01:43:42.479 unknown phenomenon, and everybody said, yeah, ball lightning works for me. 1421 01:43:43.600 --> 01:43:48.159 Ball lightning is very small and very short lived and very rare. But it's 1422 01:43:48.159 --> 01:43:54.039 a case with all of the UFOSC, the UFO interacting with the environment. 1423 01:43:54.079 --> 01:43:58.000 You had lots of witnesses independently reporting to the police and the sheriff. You 1424 01:43:58.119 --> 01:44:01.960 had law enforcement officers seeing the thing, This would be a case that would 1425 01:44:01.960 --> 01:44:05.840 have been great. Two hours later, I think it was something is seen 1426 01:44:05.920 --> 01:44:11.720 at White Sand's missile range by a couple of MP's there. I talked to 1427 01:44:11.800 --> 01:44:14.960 one of the MPs, guy named Glenn Toy told me, told me that 1428 01:44:15.079 --> 01:44:18.119 the Air Force explanation of it being the moon didn't work because they saw land 1429 01:44:18.800 --> 01:44:23.479 one hundred yards away and men take off. The next day, two more 1430 01:44:23.640 --> 01:44:28.560 MPs saw a similar thing. So you've got a series of sightings that take 1431 01:44:28.680 --> 01:44:32.359 place over about a twelve hour period around leveland Texas, where the UFO is 1432 01:44:32.359 --> 01:44:36.760 seen by lots of different people and interacts with the environment. Great case. 1433 01:44:39.359 --> 01:44:42.600 But then you look at Child's Witted for example, which we talked about a 1434 01:44:42.640 --> 01:44:45.279 little bit earlier. I think there's a legitimate explanation. I'm not going to 1435 01:44:45.399 --> 01:44:50.640 ignore what is it legitimate explanation for this case based on the evidence, especially 1436 01:44:50.720 --> 01:44:56.319 when we've got a similar case from nineteen sixty eight that is explainable by things 1437 01:44:56.399 --> 01:44:59.600 breaking up in the atmosphere as it returned to Earth. So you know you've 1438 01:44:59.600 --> 01:45:02.399 got to you can look at all of that sort of thing. But if 1439 01:45:02.439 --> 01:45:04.960 I wanted to be the number one UF Oh gay yeah, Rord Texas. 1440 01:45:05.079 --> 01:45:09.760 Yeah, alien spacecraft crash there. Yes, I'm on board. I'm on 1441 01:45:09.880 --> 01:45:13.720 board. Well, in fact, I was at Wright Patterson Air Force Base, 1442 01:45:13.840 --> 01:45:16.479 and now that I'm out, I can tell you I saw the bodies 1443 01:45:16.479 --> 01:45:19.680 at Wright Patterson Air Force Base. I was right there in the hangar with 1444 01:45:19.840 --> 01:45:25.920 him and looked down at him, me and me and Corso. Oh he 1445 01:45:26.039 --> 01:45:30.079 was at Fort Riley. I'm sorry at Fort Riley. But you know, 1446 01:45:30.359 --> 01:45:36.640 you've got to go where the evidence takes you and release your belief structure and 1447 01:45:36.800 --> 01:45:41.239 what you want to believe and look at wherever the evidence takes you. Yeah, 1448 01:45:41.439 --> 01:45:45.600 they're very well said, very well said. In the chat room, 1449 01:45:45.680 --> 01:45:48.800 someone wanted you to talk about. I don't think you had any connection to 1450 01:45:48.920 --> 01:45:53.560 this case, but the ja L sixteen twenty eight, you know, over 1451 01:45:53.640 --> 01:45:58.159 Alaska, that case, which I think is a really fantastic case. But 1452 01:45:58.560 --> 01:46:01.800 it's a great case. Yeah. I actually I actually foyed a couple of 1453 01:46:02.199 --> 01:46:08.000 radar operations on that to see if I could determine a little bit more about 1454 01:46:08.000 --> 01:46:12.479 the radar and got some got a quick response from the Air Force on that 1455 01:46:13.279 --> 01:46:17.279 what I was trying to do is a lot of times the radar facilities feed 1456 01:46:17.359 --> 01:46:23.920 the radar information to different entities like the FAA or the Air Force. The 1457 01:46:24.000 --> 01:46:28.239 Air Force puts its own discrimination on the radar returns. The fa puts different 1458 01:46:28.279 --> 01:46:31.840 discrimination on it to read out the mundane like birds and that sort of thing. 1459 01:46:33.359 --> 01:46:36.840 But you've got a great case. You've got pilots who've seen the thing 1460 01:46:36.920 --> 01:46:41.359 for a long time. What is more important about that is the reaction to 1461 01:46:41.680 --> 01:46:45.479 the guy lost his flying job after reporting the UFO. But I don't think 1462 01:46:45.520 --> 01:46:48.560 there's a good explanation for that case, and I think it's I think it's 1463 01:46:48.560 --> 01:46:56.840 a wonderful case with the only the only bad thing is they didn't get a 1464 01:46:56.880 --> 01:47:00.760 good picture. They had cameras, they just didn't take pictures. I don't 1465 01:47:00.800 --> 01:47:03.840 I don't know, but in those sorts of circumstances, and if you're the 1466 01:47:03.920 --> 01:47:09.439 pilot sometimes it's really hard to worry about taking pictures of something if you're trying 1467 01:47:09.439 --> 01:47:12.279 to fly the airplane at the same time. But they did. They did 1468 01:47:12.359 --> 01:47:15.319 the sort of thing you would expect them to do in an attempt to identify 1469 01:47:15.479 --> 01:47:17.039 what it was, and they were unable to do so. So there, 1470 01:47:17.159 --> 01:47:19.880 that's a very good case as well. I wrote about it in one of 1471 01:47:20.319 --> 01:47:24.319 I think the Government UFO Files book. I think I wrote about that and 1472 01:47:24.399 --> 01:47:28.520 there and at that point I was I did some foil work into the Air 1473 01:47:28.600 --> 01:47:32.560 Force and that sort of thing. From what I understand, Nightcap was able 1474 01:47:32.640 --> 01:47:39.600 to help that pilot get his get um well Richard Haynes. Richard Haynes, 1475 01:47:39.720 --> 01:47:44.720 Yeah, he was able to get him get his flying job back. He 1476 01:47:44.800 --> 01:47:47.880 had been he had been devoted to a desk, and they did manage to 1477 01:47:47.920 --> 01:47:51.600 get back into a flying job. But that also kind of underscores that, 1478 01:47:51.680 --> 01:47:54.960 well, if you see a UFO, you may lose your flying job, 1479 01:47:55.600 --> 01:47:59.279 which would inhibit people from talking about I didn't see any of that. It 1480 01:47:59.359 --> 01:48:01.840 wasn't in the those encounters whore they asked the airline PID, do you want 1481 01:48:01.840 --> 01:48:05.239 to report you? If I said no, I don't think so. Yeah, 1482 01:48:06.039 --> 01:48:10.600 I didn't see anything. Yeah, and you know, I understand, 1483 01:48:10.680 --> 01:48:15.039 but I think I think that's loosening up. We've seen evidence of that recently 1484 01:48:15.560 --> 01:48:24.479 with the Arizona um faa uh situation, also Oregon and the Irish, well 1485 01:48:24.520 --> 01:48:28.039 Irish, that's Ireland a whole different thing. But still there's been a couple 1486 01:48:28.079 --> 01:48:32.479 of cases where the FAA has been very responsive. Um at least I had 1487 01:48:32.600 --> 01:48:41.199 Tyler Rogeway who writes for the War Zone, and he was able to get 1488 01:48:41.239 --> 01:48:45.159 information right away or even recordings. So it seems like they're loosening up a 1489 01:48:45.199 --> 01:48:47.600 little bit. On the ja L case. I talked to John Callahan, 1490 01:48:47.680 --> 01:48:51.960 who was the fa investigator on that, and I got his, uh, 1491 01:48:53.479 --> 01:48:57.880 you know, after he'd given his talk at the citizen hearing in Washington, 1492 01:48:57.960 --> 01:49:03.039 d C. Nineteen UM twenty thirteen. I actually got the transcript of his 1493 01:49:03.199 --> 01:49:08.199 remarks. He gave them to me. So what I did my report on 1494 01:49:08.399 --> 01:49:14.399 it for for the book, I had his remarks from from his talk and 1495 01:49:14.720 --> 01:49:20.439 that the things that he learned because they had the radar track of the of 1496 01:49:20.560 --> 01:49:26.039 the object and they could put together everything in a in a timeline. The 1497 01:49:26.119 --> 01:49:29.359 one thing he did say is the f the CIA guys showed up and said, 1498 01:49:29.560 --> 01:49:30.439 we weren't here, you know, we didn't. We didn't we didn't 1499 01:49:30.479 --> 01:49:33.840 hear this. We're not here. Yeah, but uh, but you know, 1500 01:49:33.920 --> 01:49:38.039 so that's a good case. And I talked to John Callahan for a 1501 01:49:38.119 --> 01:49:41.680 while about it and got got his uh. The transcript of his remark. 1502 01:49:41.760 --> 01:49:44.640 So I have you know some good information on that that came from another one 1503 01:49:44.640 --> 01:49:48.039 of the people who was directly involved in the investigation, right, and just 1504 01:49:48.600 --> 01:49:53.359 we only have three minutes left just for again, we have a lot of 1505 01:49:53.640 --> 01:49:56.800 new listeners and um, you know someone has written in the chat room, 1506 01:49:57.000 --> 01:50:00.319 oh I'm going to look into that case or whatever. So U can you 1507 01:50:00.760 --> 01:50:08.439 can you give the overall of this case what happened which it was just it 1508 01:50:08.560 --> 01:50:13.279 was just it was just the the pilot and the crew of I think it 1509 01:50:13.359 --> 01:50:16.600 was a cargo plane as opposed to a pastor plan had seen seen the object, 1510 01:50:17.399 --> 01:50:20.039 kept track of it. They made a number of turns to see if 1511 01:50:20.079 --> 01:50:26.039 they could um get any more information or how it reacted their turns, and 1512 01:50:26.159 --> 01:50:30.640 eventually it disappeared in the distance and they flew on and completed their mission. 1513 01:50:30.680 --> 01:50:32.800 But there's the radar information about it. I mean, if you go you 1514 01:50:32.880 --> 01:50:36.960 go to the internet, look up ja L sixteen twenty eight and you'll get 1515 01:50:36.960 --> 01:50:41.119 a lot of information. I think it's in uh, I can't remember if 1516 01:50:41.119 --> 01:50:45.560 it's in the government UFO files book that I did. You can you can 1517 01:50:45.640 --> 01:50:48.439 go there and take a look at that which is available on Kindle. You 1518 01:50:48.520 --> 01:50:53.600 can be looking at it in twenty minutes or twenty seconds. Um, I 1519 01:50:53.680 --> 01:50:56.279 don't I don't believe I did anything on my blog about it, though, 1520 01:50:56.479 --> 01:50:59.840 I don't think that's on the blog yet. So yeah, yeah, that 1521 01:51:00.159 --> 01:51:02.960 that was really an amazing thing. It was like looked like the shape of 1522 01:51:03.000 --> 01:51:06.439 a walnut or something like that. Yeah, oh yeah, it was huge 1523 01:51:06.840 --> 01:51:11.600 and h and they had it on the weather radar, which is important because 1524 01:51:11.640 --> 01:51:15.159 the weather radar is on the aircraft and then the radar on the ground track 1525 01:51:15.199 --> 01:51:17.000 the things. So you've got two separate eight radar returns of it as well. 1526 01:51:17.359 --> 01:51:21.119 Yeah, yeah, two independent radars showing this object. So there was 1527 01:51:21.199 --> 01:51:27.439 something real there. And they did that big circle and the thing falled along, 1528 01:51:28.199 --> 01:51:32.199 which is uh yeah, something else. And I don't know, it 1529 01:51:32.880 --> 01:51:35.920 must have scared the heck out of them. I would think, you know, 1530 01:51:36.119 --> 01:51:40.279 how do you explain something like that? It's pretty It's such a mystery. 1531 01:51:40.399 --> 01:51:43.760 I don't I don't understand why in the day is world people would be 1532 01:51:43.880 --> 01:51:45.600 frightened by this. But you know, I read all kinds of cases where 1533 01:51:45.640 --> 01:51:48.159 the first reaction is fear, and I'm thinking, you know, I think 1534 01:51:48.239 --> 01:51:51.560 flying I would have. I would have fear flying more than anything else. 1535 01:51:53.399 --> 01:51:55.560 You know, if I was up, if I was a pilot flying a 1536 01:51:55.600 --> 01:51:58.359 plane, I saw something. You just feel vulnerable up in the sky, 1537 01:51:58.560 --> 01:52:04.399 you know, I think. See I'm not sure I agree with that because 1538 01:52:04.920 --> 01:52:11.560 being a combat pilot, we saw lots of stuff in the sky. Well 1539 01:52:13.159 --> 01:52:17.479 of lights in the sky. Yeah, yeah, called tracers. So if 1540 01:52:17.520 --> 01:52:23.960 you would give out your your blog, your blogspot and how people can uh 1541 01:52:24.720 --> 01:52:28.600 get your books and all that. Amazon right, oh Amazon, Kendall has 1542 01:52:28.640 --> 01:52:31.560 the book so you can get them immediately. The blog is www dot Kevin 1543 01:52:31.680 --> 01:52:36.000 Randall dot blogspot dot com. There's a lot of stuff on there. Um, 1544 01:52:36.359 --> 01:52:41.920 there's there's information about the programs that I have, the program I hosted 1545 01:52:41.960 --> 01:52:45.279 as well, and one of the ones that just recently was Treasure Quest and 1546 01:52:45.319 --> 01:52:49.039 about how much reality is involved in that program. That got a lot of 1547 01:52:49.079 --> 01:52:51.920 people looking into it. And I had one of the guys on the ship 1548 01:52:53.039 --> 01:52:55.920 from the show on my program, so you can go listen to what he 1549 01:52:56.000 --> 01:52:59.680 has to say about Treasure Quest. But that's at www dot Kevin Randall dot 1550 01:52:59.760 --> 01:53:02.039 blog dot com. The books are at Kendall. Just type my name in 1551 01:53:02.159 --> 01:53:05.319 there and you can find it and there's usually some information about it, so 1552 01:53:05.399 --> 01:53:10.119 you can just termine which book you want. The latest book was Encounter in 1553 01:53:10.159 --> 01:53:13.600 the Desert, which is about the Lonnis of More sighting in nineteen sixty four, 1554 01:53:13.640 --> 01:53:16.439 which is a good sighting Lannie. Yeah, so this one that I 1555 01:53:16.520 --> 01:53:19.479 don't debunk. Yeah, yeah, that's a great one. All right. 1556 01:53:19.560 --> 01:53:24.319 Kevin, Hey, thanks so much, pleasure as always, Thank you very 1557 01:53:24.399 --> 01:53:28.000 much, appreciate all the time. Oh you bet, and we'll have you 1558 01:53:28.119 --> 01:53:30.760 on again as a regular guest, I'm sure. So you take care, 1559 01:53:31.279 --> 01:53:33.359 all right, you too, Thank you much. All right, thank you. 1560 01:53:34.079 --> 01:53:39.520 All right, everyone, So that's it for our show, and let's 1561 01:53:39.560 --> 01:53:44.279 see next week we have another interesting show, and that is we have a 1562 01:53:44.600 --> 01:53:49.359 U follogists from I think he's Beijing, China's actually a Chinese you follogists. 1563 01:53:49.399 --> 01:53:56.119 He speaks English a little bit of an accent, but I've he's very understandable 1564 01:53:56.159 --> 01:53:58.960 and I think you're going to really love the show next week. His name 1565 01:53:59.159 --> 01:54:02.039 is he likes to be called Chuck, so that's what we're gonna call him, 1566 01:54:02.119 --> 01:54:05.279 Chuck Faye, and he will be on next week. I want to 1567 01:54:05.279 --> 01:54:11.560 thank everyone that helps out with the show and behind the scenes and you the 1568 01:54:11.680 --> 01:54:15.279 listener, and I also want to thank the people that support the show. 1569 01:54:15.920 --> 01:54:18.319 All right, everyone, so remember to keep your eyes to the sky.