Hello, and welcome to the show. I'm Martin Willis, your host,
and I want to apologize for last week. I am on the road and
last week at the last minute, the guests had to cancel for a family
situation. So I do apologize to everyone out there for not, you know,
having a show last week. And this week we have Kevin Randall.
Always love having him on the show to get the square scoop of what's happening
around out there and has happened and all. That's always really great to talk
to him. And before that, I have Alejandro Rojas coming up with UFO
updates, and I do want to thank everyone that supports a show. We
couldn't do without you. And I'm here solo with a little tiny computer down
in Florida, and I hope that I'm not going to mess too many things
up. I'll do my best that I can. And Alejandro, welcome to
the show. Hello, Hello, thanks for having me. Is that what
you're orange? I am orange today? Yeah? Huh yeah, with that
on purpose? Or is that just another no, it's the Sunshine State,
Luke you orange? Oh okay, okay, great, No, actually orange,
it's just the camera. Yeah, interesting? Interesting, Yeah, well,
so, yes, I'm doing well, and I hope you're having a
great time. I hear that the weather, it's finally you have the advantage
over me. You've got the sun in the heat, whereas I'm freezing in
uh sixty degree temperature. Oh six of you poor thing. Well it was
ninety today. To me, that's that's a little too warm. That's you
know, it's going to be seven degrees where I lived up in Maine tomorrow.
So yeah, I feel so lucky to escape that. So what's going
on in the UFO world. Well, there's always a lot going on.
So there's a couple of interesting stories here that I wanted to mention. One
of them on Nick Pope posted although he's living here in the US, it's
kind of his Nick of the woods out there in the UK. And I'm
going to And I didn't learn even though you and I had talked about this
earlier, I didn't go edgecpe myself on how to say the names of these
cities like I should have. But the headline is and this is from a
paper called the Gloucestershire Live. And actually this is a paper that I refer
to often because you know the UK just like the US. In these local
papers they write about UFO stories and happenings in their areas quite a bit,
and these guys write about different sightings once in a while as well. This
one is a sighting over the M five, which is a highway that was
headed towards the town of Bristol, and it was seen and reported by pilots,
so very interesting case. It essentially was three orange orbs. But what's
cool about this is Air Midwest actually tweeted about it. They wrote, there
has been a lot of interest in the fact that our pilots observed UFOs last
night during night flying exercises. So here's a brief summary of the situation.
They posted this on February fifteenth. The sighting was on February fourteenth, but
essentially they said last night, at about ten pm south of Glouceshire, there
were airborne unidentified lights. So they talked about those a little bit, just
that they were moving very fast. They sent planes on an intercept course,
but they couldn't catch whatever it was. Now, these weren't jet fighters.
I think these were just regular commercial aircraft. But there's also in this article
on Glacier share Live an account from one of the pilots who just said he
saw two large square orange lights, one on top of the other. They
looked very strange to him. He did not believe they were balloons because of
how fast that they moved. So this is a new kind of ongoing case
in the media in the UK. That's that's pretty interesting. Well, we
actually have someone in the chat room that's actually from Gloucestershire, and that's I
just said it the way it's supposed to be pronounced Gloucestershire. According to him,
he did it phonically in the chat room. Isn't that nice? That's
very nice. Thank you, Gloucestershire. Yeah, and the Gloucester Shore Glacis
shirt glaciershore. I gotta get that because I reference it to him quite a
bit because they have so many EO photo sightings and so that is a yeah,
great story. Yeah, just because we pronounce it correctly doesn't necessarily mean
though that people are going to be able to find it when they look out
there. But you can find it in my social media where I guess I
could spell it quickly. It's g l O U c E s t e
R is the name of the city put r E. Yeah, if you
get the whole name, but if you put Gloucester Shore UFO, you'll find
this story out there if you're opposed to going to my social media. So
that's the first story of the day. Second one, this is kind of
interesting Mensa writing about to the Stars and Luelsondo and the whole a tip situation,
So it's very interesting. Menta of course, is the Intelligent you know
organization. It's a club for people whose IQs are over I think one twenty
four, one forty two, it can't remember exactly which one it is.
They're they're tagline it is where brilliant belong. They're not shy about being proud
of their higher iq s. But they wrote about this case in a very
straightforward way. They kind of just talk about how, you know, there's
been mysteries and science before, and now there are scientists and credible people tackling
this issue. Now that this was kind of all brought together by Tom DeLong,
and that they have this Adam project where they're looking at materials that they
have obtained that they believe may be anomalous. But in particular, they do
get a quote from someone we haven't heard from that often that's part of the
to the Stars group, and that's Steve Justice. He is formally of Lockheed's
skunk Works, and skunk Works is a team that created you know, the
F twenty two raptor, the F thirty five Lightning, the stealth plane,
the U Tube, the SR seventy one. Much of this developed that Area
fifty one. They're the guys who built and were in charge of Area fifty
one. A lot of that craft was inspired by the CIA or projects that
were CIA sponsored, but that also of course led over to Air Force and
other organizations. But so it's incredible that we have this guy with skunk Works
who is working on UFO projects. One of his quotes that I liked,
he said, to the Stars as a group of people who came together to
answer the questions at most of society is afraid to ask. There's this overwhelming
body of evidence that indicates something strange is going on. So essentially making the
argument that UFOs are worthwhile study so really interesting. And then one more thing
gets kind of along the lines is about a TIP and Luelzando is that that
organization that in this MENSA article they mentioned that a TIP no longer exists,
that it went from two thousand and seven to twenty twelve. However, according
to Lou, that is not the case. The organizationization still does exist.
In fact, he said that in the New York Times, but for whatever
reason, the MENSA article didn't allude to that. The DoD did say that
funding was pulled in twenty twelve. However, there's a gentleman, Danny sil
who's got a website called Silver Record, and it's pretty good. He's been
following all of this stuff and he wrote an article recently called A TIP Did
Not End, and essentially he goes over all of the quotes and information around
how a TIP still exists. And Lou told me, and this is a
really I think it's pretty interesting. He told me, not only does it
continue, but that who the people who are running at our very high level.
He talked about kind of some of the ranks, but yeah, very
very high level individuals that are still involved with a TIP. And you know,
it's been debated, but the key players and the people who not only
worked on the program but also started it have claimed, you know, UFOs
were a big part of this program looking into UFO phenomena, including and their
example was a USS Nimit situation. So yeah, so interesting things going on
that is real. That is something. It's it's just you know, I
wonder what it would be so nice to know what Lou knows. You know,
Yes, it was as far as like he was running it and all
that, and you know what, more information, you know, it would
be great if we had all the scoop. And it seems like we may
be getting it slow, you know, spoon fed a little bit here and
there possibly, and you have you told me earlier today that you know,
Lou was going to be on your show and had to call it off for
a couple of weeks and he's involved in something. But you're actually going to
be interviewing him fairly in the next few weeks, right, Yeah, so
we can't do any media interviews for a few weeks. However, Luckily before
that, I am I already planning to meet him one on one, a
meeting we had already pre planned. So he said that he'll give me a
little bit of information, a little bit more that, and some that can
be shared when we do meet, and then once he's cleared to do interviews,
he'll be able to share a lot more about like the current project.
Someone had mentioned before. Tom de Long tweeted that they had some sort of
you know, findings with the Adam project that they'll be able to share in
the future. So we'll be able to get a lot more information out in
a few weeks. So and this project that has you know, essentially delayed
him being able to do my interview, has also delayed the release of information
for quite some time. So they're very excited to be able to share a
lot more about what they've been up to in the last few months. Now.
Some people complain, oh, since they sorry, they made stillment to
promises, but we haven't heard much. But you've got to remember it takes
a long time to investigate this stuff, especially if you're dealing link with materials,
where you have to get things analyzed and then that the analysis the data
to be analyzed by another third party. So it takes a lot of time
to do this. In fact, the SEU which we talked about earlier,
and Kevin Randall's a part of that, the Science Centific Coalition for you Apology,
those guys came out with their Aguadia report. It took them two years
to research that and come out with that report, so well, you know,
I would argue that it hasn't been that. You know, we've gotten
quite a bit in this year or so, but it sounds like there's a
lot more information to come. Yeah, yeah, exciting. This could be
the year. Of course they've been saying that for you know, seventy years.
But anyway, but you know what, you would be right. The
last couple of years, twenty seventeen, we've found out about the Pentagon project
or at least you know, and to the Stars started last year, we
found out tons more about it. So each year twenty seventeen, twenty eighteen
and have been banner years for this this field, and it seems like twenty
nineteen will follow up with that. It's sure could happen. Heym, thank
you very much. Alajundro all right, thank you, and I'll see you
in Roswell Kevin, okay, sound good? All right, I'm getting ready
to bring him in. All right, everyone, so hang in there just
one second. Something's not working here, m okay, obs troubles anyway,
Aljandro, thank you, and we'll talk to you next week. Calculator all
right, all right, so my guest, I've been on the show many,
many times. Kevin Randall. He is a very prominent figure in FO
those of you who are new listeners in the UFO community. He's written over
eighty books. I can't even remember how many books he's written. We'll talk
a little bit about that. He was one of the first people in there
investigating the Roswell incident. He's been writing lately. He's got the go to
blog as far as I'm concerned when it comes to UFOs and getting the straight
scoop. There's many times that I actually go to his blog to understand something
that I'm a little confused about, which is quite often, and it's always
a pleasure to have him on the show. Welcome Kevin. I hate to
correct you at the very beginning of your show. Well, I think you
did that last time, so I'm used to it, Okay, But I
don't know why we're still hung up on this eighty books thing. No I
said, I said, at least yes, Well that eighty books was like
two decades ago. It's like one hundred and twenty five now. So all
right, Well, you're going to get someone in there. They change your
Wikipedia page. I think that's what it's all about. Maybe, Oh,
well information is yeah. Wow. So do you ever take any time off?
Yes, yeah, and most of the time I'm now I'm out snow
blowing the driveway because yeah, we're in the cold weather. You're at ninety
degrees. We'll be lucky. We'll beat about one two below zero tonight.
Ah wow, yikes. Well that's only temporarily. I have to go back
to the snow soon. But anyway, So Kevin, let's see, I
think it's been I think you were on last July or something like that.
I can't remember exactly when. And uh so there's always something happening. And
uh, I see that lately you've been writing your opinion on the new Project
Bluebook History Channels Project Bluebook and interviewing. Um, you know certain people involved
in that, including m. Paul Heinik and also someone involved with the not
the History Channel, but that was also involved in creating the show. Right.
Well, the guy is the senior vice president for Arts and Entertainment Network,
which owns History Channels. I see, right, he's a senior vice
president for scripted show so he was kind of one of the big wheels in
getting a program to the air. I guess, So, what do you
you know, I personally really liked the show. I know that it's you
know, there's a lot of people grumbling in the UFO community because of the
facts aren't exactly you know, it's a it's a show based on you know,
it says based on the truth, but sometimes it's a little bit loose
and people are you know, people that are the hardcore UFO people that want
the straight scooper a little bit upset about that. But what is your philosophy
in general about how it's going. I tuned in, I think the first
week to hate it and got sucked into it and realize that if you can
separate the drama from the fact, and it's when you say it's based on
real events, it's really loosely based on real events. But if you can
separate the two things that this is a drama, they're not making a documentary,
and just get into it, then I find it quite enjoyable. And
one of the questions that came up first was I wondered how Jael and Heineck
would have felt by the way he's betrayed in the program. And my thoughts
says, well, there's Heinick kids, what do they think? And I
got in touch with Paul Heineck to ask him, and he said, well,
my dad would have liked the show. He'd probably got himself a big
ball of popcorn, put his feet up and watched the show and had a
great time with it. So I'm thinking, if the Heineck family is on
board with the program, I can't dislike it because of the way Heineck is
portrayed in the program, because the family doesn't mind. And yeah, I
mean I can. I could pick it apart and I've done a little bit
of that. The military stuff is really horrendlessly portrayed. They don't know how
to salute, they don't understand military protocol, they don't understand how things developed
in the military. All of that stuff, which you could fix without spending
any money at all, insult you know. In fact, I told our
turo in Terion, our turin Terian, he's the senior vice president for Scripto
program. I told him when I had him on my show that the general
in it was wearying a Air Force Commendation medal, and I said that didn't
come into being until nineteen fifty eight, so he shouldn't be wearing that.
And I'm thinking I'm probably like one of three people that would have caught that.
Uh huh, well, you know, I mean, I'm kind of
it's kind of difficult for people to watch, you know, any vintage show
with me because I'm a you know, I'm an appraiser and I'm always looking
for you know, mistakes and movies. I do this all the time.
It's just a bad habit. And their sets are pretty good. I mean,
they're they're they're they're doing pretty well. Um, you know as far
as dating the vintage, um for everything else. But you know, I'm
surprised that they don't have an exact uh you know, as far as consulting
goes um, when you're telling me all these different things. In the military,
they must have some type of advisor. But uh uh it's it's yeah,
they're missing some things that sounds like, but it's really not there.
Man. It's everybody in Hollywood doesn't understand military protocol. They don't understand when
you salute, they don't understand the general. For example, military protocol says
you don't refer to a general as sir, you call it general. Most
people in the military, when they're addressing a general, they will say sir.
I always went out of my way to say general to them and see
if anybody would get mad at me about that. But I mean, if
you haven't been in the military, spend time in the military, some of
these things are very hard to understand. The protocol for saluting, for example,
you don't salute on the flight line. Why because there's a lot of
dangerous stuff going on in the flight line. And you don't wear your cover
on the flight line, meaning your hat. You don't wear it on the
flight line because they blow off and get sucked into the engines and blow them
up. So there's all these little things like that. But on the other
side, when you look at it from a perspective of having served in the
military, some people do that sort of thing. They don't understand they're new
to the military, or they forget about it, or they're not used to
being around the aircraft and that sort of thing. You know, there were
things we did as a pilot, we did that well. The best example
is I was a ward officer, which is a rank between the top king
sergeants and lowest officers, and one day my coal pilot was the first lieutenant
well on the ground, he outranked me, but in the aircraft I outranked
him. We were flying a colonel around to check on various fire support bases
and the colonel refused to talk to me. He would talk to the first
lieutenant, and the lieutenant would point to me. He says, he's the
aircraft commander. You've got to tell him. And so I mean, that's
kind of something that is a little bit bizarre to aviation, where you would
have the junior officer actually being the aircraft commander and the senior, more senior
officer being the coal pilot. And at one point we landed outside a fire
support base and I wasn't going to stay out there with the aircraft because we
were outside the wire and I wasn't in a safe place to be. So
we walked inside. We had the guy who's sergeant major with us, and
he saw the colonel walking to the aircraft. He said, we got to
hurry. The colonel is going to the aircraft, and I said he it's
not going any place without us. So, you know, but that sort
of being, you know, I look for that, but I understand that
Hollywood just doesn't get it. So I suggested to him they find a military
consultant, and they wouldn't really have to be somebody that was there all the
time. They could do it via skype, called the guy and says,
this is a uniform set up properly and that sort of thing. Yeah,
yeah, yeah, I wouldn't be surprised. And for the people that don't
know this, they just they just got an okay for a season two.
So yes, it's going to be going another season. So those out there
that hate you are going to have to hate it a little more. Well,
the other thing, the other thing he pointed out is they didn't know
how long the show was going to last, meaning they were going to go
for ten episodes, but if they expanded beyond that, then there were things
they could do. But they didn't know that. So when they began,
they have a character named Quinn and who he's sort of an ed Ruple type
guy, and the way it was explained to me said, but we don't
we didn't know where we're going to go on and if we had Rupled in
there at the beginning, and then of course he was only there for a
short time. Then we move into like Sneider and I forget the other guy's
name, who were rapidly anti UFO and or lack of daisical in the job.
So they didn't care. So they created this Quinn guy that trying to
take the role of the Air Force officer running the well because they're all over
the time frame as well run the Air Force end of it. And then
of course Heineck started at the very beginning and goes up into the nineteen sixties
with his consulting work with Project Bluebook. But like I said, yeah,
the other thing I remember is growing up as a kid, my mother told
me that George Custer had been promoted to brigadier general by mistake. And if
you go back and you read the Civil War history, you understand, no,
he wasn't promoted by mistake. That the academy graduates. As the Federal
Army expanded with all these volunteer and militia regiments that were brought in from the
State States regiments, they were putting active duty officers in charge, and so
I think Custer had been a captain and they they appointed him in charge of
the Michigan Brigade, which called for a brigadier general. So he was promoted
to brigadier general because he was now the commander of the Michigan Brigade. The
idea that he was promoted by mistake comes from the movie They Died with their
boots on, and there was the idea was the Michigan Well he had Custer
had taken a horse in the in the show taken a horse, and they
were starting a letter to him, you know, due to Captain Custer,
you know, you took the horse bringing back and they didn't get that far,
and so we need a brigadier from the Michigan Brigade. So it's the
guy just picked up a piece of paper and started riding on it and the
adjutant signed it and it was two Custer. So he became a brigadier general
by a mistake. But that's really not the way it happened in real honest,
the good this history. Yeah, so, I mean, but the
point is you look at the stories that you see on television. You see
are the movies, and they're based on real events. They compressed it,
They combined kara victors, they switch events around, so it's a much more
dramatic thing. And if you look at the Project Blue Book show, you
notice they go from like nineteen forty eight with the Gorman siding to nineteen fifty
one, which was illubic lights. I think they did oh the Flatwood Monster
nineteen fifty two. Then they're back into nineteen forty eight. So their timeline.
If you're following the timeline, it doesn't work. But there's all events
that had to do with Project Bluebook or the official Air Force investigations. You
look at all of that sort of thing, and you're looking at a drama
as opposed to a documentary, and you have to keep that in mind.
And I think the people who are really annoyed about the program are looking We're
looking for a documentary as opposed to a drama. Yes, yeah, that's
what That's what I'm getting out of it as well. And we're going to
run to break here. And so this is Martin Willis. My guest tonight
is Kevin Randall, and we will be right back. All right, we
are back, and my guest is Kevin Rindall, and we are talking Project
blue Book. So Kevin, about the you know, people getting the bits
and pieces of a of a real story. And I noticed on your website
you go into the details of certain stories. Do you think that this is
a this is a um in a way also a good thing that because my
personality is if I watch something on TV or a movie or you know,
wherever I watch it, I like to do research if I'm really interested in
the topic and interested in what actually happened. Anytime I see something that's based
on you know, fact, I want to know the facts. So I
do all my research, and uh, I love doing that. I don't
know if anyone else is like me, but do think overall that people are
going to be out there, you know, looking into what real happened in
these cases. I put up on the blog on my blog www dot Kevin
rendaldt blogspot dot com. I snuck it in there. You know, it's
the story. You can figure out what case they're really talking about, even
though they don't, you know, like the Gorman dog fight that was they
called it the Fuller. Fuller was the name of the pilot, and so
I put up on my blog the real facts as it developed out of that
specific case. And some of the explanations have gone longer, but I know
that people have come to the blog to look at that and get the story
as it truly transpired. And I think that's one of the things I thought
was was a good thing for it. It gets people interested in UFOs.
And I'm the same way. If I see something on television or I read
something like that, I go to various sources to see if I can figure
out what the real story is and where we are on on that. So
I think we're bringing people into the UFO field who may not have been interested
and say, well, this is based on real facts. What are the
real facts? And if they look at it the end of the program,
they take like thirty seconds to give you some of the real facts. But
if you don't catch that, and it's very very minimal what you get.
So if you type in Lubbic Lights, for example, I think you come
to my blog or you go to a lot of other sites that can give
you a more expanded explanation of what the Lubbic Lights case was really all about.
So I think it's a good thing and that we're they are able to
interest people in u folology who may not have taken an interest in it before
the program aired, and we should make it. We should make a point
here that when we say Project Blue Book, we're talking about the television series
as opposed to the actual Air Force investigation, which was also cleverly called Project
blue Book. So you know there is a distinction there right right and when
Project blue Book ended, and and you know, as far as we know,
you know, there's bits and pieces of the files out there. Does
anyone happen to know or do you happen to know if there's if they destroyed
a lot of their files or perhaps are archives somewhere. Do you know any
of that that situation, I know everything. That's why you're in the show.
Yeah. Absolutely. What happened is as they were cleaning out the offices
in nineteen sixty nine, I interviewed a guy named Carmen Morano who was technically
the last officer in charge of Blue Book, and it kind of evolved to
him. He was a first lieutenant and his job was to get rid of
the stuff, and he thought a lot of it should be saved, so
he saved it himself. Other they did put it together into an archive.
It went to Actuell Air Force Base, which was the Air Force Archives was
there at one point and it probably still there, and then it went to
the last smart Cars. What we what happened was they had all of this
material. Jack Webb was going to do a program called Project UFO, which
is essentially Project Bluebook, and he paid to have the files microfilmed, so
Air Force officers went through them and took out the names of everybody. It
redacted an awful lot of the stuff. I had been to the Project Bluebook
files at Maxwell Air Force Base right after they released, and that hadn't happened
yet. Files weren't redacted. One of the things that Bob Cornett, I'd
gone down there with a friend of mine, Bob Cornette and I did was
we wrote down all the cases, all the unidentified with the names. We
could put the names back into the unidentified cases. If you look at the
case files on some of the some of the cases, there'll be newspaper clippings
at the end. Those weren't redacted, so you could put the names back
there. And the best one I saw was they had done an interview with
Kenneth Arnold about his siding. There was a telephone interview and they had the
initials of the officer and Kenneth Arnold ka. They'd gone through and they had
crossed out all the ka's throughout the entire transcript and on the front page in
letters. It had to be a half inch high grease paincil pencil has said
arnold case, so you knew what it was all about. The point simply
is to answer your question. Yeah, the stuff was saved. Carmen Marndal
saved a lot of stuff that was not classified that had been used by various
individuals and desk drowds as opposed to the official filing cabinets. The stuff has
all been microfilms. You can find it on the internet. I've got a
complete set of microfilms and I've got pretty much the whole thing on digital copy
as well, so I can search stuff pretty easily. Fold three has the
stuff their Fold three is a history site you can join for free and access
the Project Bluebook files because they're public records, so you can access there,
so you can see a lot of the stuff. So the stuff is there.
Morano. Oh. The interesting story. Guy named Rob Mercer would go
to would go to Craigslist to look to see if anybody put it in the
UFO stuff up and he found somebody who was selling a box of Project blue
Book material and he spent one hundred dollars to see what it was, and
it was most of the files duplicate files of the Lone Zamora siding from Skoro
of nineteen sixty four, and he talked to the guy who who had found
the box. He said the guy had said, well, I was at
a garage sale. I was buying this wood. They paid him that.
They told me to clean it out, and I came to this box of
UFO stuff and they didn't know who who belonged to or anything else. So
I put it up on eBay. Mercer bought it. Mercer, through a
wonderful piece of detective work, was able to trace the box back to the
house, learned who to own the house, which was Carmen Morano, the
last guy to be in charge of Project Blue Book. Traced him to his
home and talked to him and found out there was additional stuff that Morano had
saved. Hadn't looked at it in decades. He says, you can have
it if you want. So Mercery got all of this stuff. But the
interesting thing is, so you can compare the I guess you can say,
sort of the unofficial documents from Blue Book with the official files and see where
there are gaps and where there are changes and things like that. But that's
a long winded to say, Yeah, the Project blue Book stuff exists,
and I think most of it exists. I don't think they got a lot
rid of a lot of it. They got a rid of some of the
stuff in the beginning. We know based on correspondence. We know based on
testimony, for example, that in nineteen forty seven, nineteen forty seven,
the US government, the US military was interested in the ghost rockets in over
Scandinavia and they gathered a lot of that material. It does not appear in
the Project Bluebook files, although there are references to it in the blue Book
files. So it's some point they took out and destroyed all that material about
the ghost rockets, and this was done probably early on in the investigation.
There are other things. There are cases referenced in the final reports of Sign
and Grudge, but the cases aren't in the Project blue Book files and there's
nothing about them in the Bluebook files. Yet they're referenced in these the Grudge
reports. So you know, there were documents created about that, and the
documents have sense disappeared, And if you go through the index of Project Bluebook,
there's any Especially in the beginning, there's a lot of files that say
case missing, case missing, case missing, So at some point they had
cleaned the files out to get to purge them, and that material has gone
gone forever, although we know there's hints to where the case was and the
data the case, so we can kind of go back and put some of
that stuff together now for the I think it would be kind of fun to
do this one thing for the listener out there that actually watched the show on
say the Flatwoods Monster, and talk about the differences. I know that you
wrote a blog about this, so if you wouldn't mind to touch on some
of the differences between what the show portrayed in what actually happened. Well,
the one thing that bothered me most about that was that you seem to have
the townspeople up in arms like the farmers or the townspeople in the Frankenstein movie.
You know, they got their torches and their pitchforks and they're storming the
castle because doctor Frankenstein has created this monster. And you get this sort of
idea in the Flatwoods case that the people are there with their shotguns and they're
really annoyed about the story of the monster. Well, that never really happened.
The townspeople did come to Kathleen maythhouse he was one of the people involved
in seeing the thing, to talk to her, and then they went out
in search for the monster from that point, but there was no kind of
conflict between the townspeople and the people who had seen the UFO, And that
was the one thing that really bothered me about it. The explanation they come
up with the end. The Air Force shows, well, it's an owl
with the big eyes on a tree that had been kind of burned by something,
and that was kind of the Air Force explanation, and the way they
showed it in the program kind of made sense because it really did sort of
look like a monster, but it really was an owl in a tree.
I'm not sure that that's a legitimate explanation, but they take they take a
lot of liberties with the case. You know, they changed the name of
the people obviously. I think at the end of that case as somebody committed
suicide because they wouldn't listen to her, she jumped out of the hospital and
that sort of thing that those things didn't happen. But we're also they're also
creating a drama here, and you know, I thought that was a little
bit over the top, but it was part of the drama. So you
know, the case was, it really didn't have the conf between the towns
people. There was a certain amount of ridicule directed at the people that saw
the UFO or or what the monster, that sort of thing, but you
get that in any UFO case. Now there's a great deal of ridicule directed
at people who report that sort of thing, you know, And you look
at the mainstream media and their idea is and it's changing now. I see
them being much more consistent with their reporting, much more accurate with the reporting
it. But for the longest time, it was the idea that I'm too
sophisticated to believe in flying saucers, but I'll let you ramble on and then
I'll make fun of you when we're done here. And you would see that
in the local media doing UFO stores and that sort of thing. And the
one that really cracked me up was these two guys in New Jersey tried to
create a UFO siding by attaching flares to a balloon because you wanted wanted to
believe to prove that uf own investigators and researchers were credulous, and the witnesses
didn't know what they talked about. When you watched the stories as they unfolded
on the TV, you'd see the witnesses actually being very credible, explaining exactly
what they see, and you saw a reporter at one point saying, well,
the UFO seems to be its lights seemed to be flashing, and the
and the woman they were interview said no, no, it was passing behind
a tree and it was winter time and at nighttime, so you didn't really
see the tree, but you saw the lights blinking and she was able to
explain what that was. I thought, well, that's very good. She's
explaining exactly what was going on. And these two guys were attempting to create
this. But the one that got to me was the reporter going to a
little girl eating a lollipop and says, what do you think about the aliens?
I think nobody said a word about aliens. Nobody said a word about
anything. And then the person you will go interview with some seven year old
girl with a lollipop. You can't it can't interview a UFOL research. You
can't interview the witnesses, but we can find a little girl with a lollipop
but the idea of aliens in her head. But I see, I see
we getting much more legitimate reporting now. The New York Times was very kind
to the announcement about Blink one eighty two's UFO investigation. I mean they treated
it with a legitimate story, and I see more of that going on in
today's world. Yeah, yeah, I think a lot has changed. And
just you know, since you know, the Pentagon article came out, it
just seems so much more. I don't know, easy to talk about.
You know. Um, I spent the last weekend with a on an island
with a some the friends, uh next door neighbor of some friends I was
visiting, and he was a he was a commercial pilot with a fifty five
thousand hours, a lot of international fights and all that, and uh,
you know, I got up the courage to ask him if he had ever
seen anything unusual, and you know, he basically went into a couple of
near crash stories and stuff like that. But I still have a you know,
in certain mixture of companies, Uh, you know, kind of a
hard time you know, bringing up Hey, do you know what do you
think about UFO? Sometimes I feel comfortable with someone and can say it,
but it's it's still a little bit of that, you know, that pressure
not to go there. Well, when we deployed to Iraq, I mean,
almost everybody knew that I was the UFO guy. But but the questions
were legitimate and they were interested in what I had to say. It wasn't
anybody really making fun of what I was doing. And it might have been
one of two reasons. One is because they were highly interested in what I
had to say. Or I was one of the senior officers in the battalion,
so they were a little bit intimidated by But one of the interesting thing
is while in Iraq, we had satellite feeds, you know, satellite television,
and they they we got the History Channel, and a couple of guys,
a couple of the NCOs came up to me one day want to know
if I had had if I had a brother, And I said why They
said, what, we were watching this program on History the other day there
was a guy who with the same last name. It looks an awful lot
like you, And I said, yeah, I was me about ten years
ago. So they had seen that. But um, you know, inside
the inside that that community. If somebody had a question about it, they
would ask me, and I would I would answer the question as best I
could about what UFOs were. Nobody seemed to be really um taken aback by
by my interest in that topic. We had another guy who was very interested
in NASCAR, so he became the NASCAR guy. So, you know,
it's just people had an expertise that they brought to their military service, and
people who were interested in it would approach them to ask questions. But I
didn't ask you this. If you if you were a private, do you
think you would have been treated differently given? No, I don't think so.
I think it was I think it was just an interest in what was
going on. And I think in the military we respect those who have the
knowledge, regardless of the rank that they hold. And I noticed that when
we came back to the United States, there was a special who had worked
in the Joint Operations Center for many, many years, and if there was
a question about protocols, they would ask him the question. He was,
you know, an E four, very low ranking enlisted man, and you'd
have majors asking him questions about the specific protocols because he was the subject matter
expert. And that's the kind of the big catchphrase in the military. For
a while, there was subject matter expert. Who's your subject matter expert?
And you go to that person and ask the questions because he or she should
have those answers, And the rank didn't really factor into that much because this
was the person who had had the answers. Sometimes a subject matter expert happened
to be a major, or a captain or a colonel, and sometimes it
happened to be a sergeant or a specialist or a private. I don't remember
any privates, but me. The specialist was the one that popped into my
mind because I had seen officers asking him specific protocol questions and how to move
forward in a specific task to get it done right. So and he would
explain, you know, here's what we need to do. I've been having
I had a couple of shows kind of focused on the Nimitz case. And
I also have Kevin Day, who was the radar operator, coming up in
a few weeks and hopefully another witness. He said he would try to get
me another witness to what was going on there. But you know, the
military military encounters to me are fascinating and you being a military person, you
know, do you think that there is a lot more happening that you know?
I mean, it seems to me now that I've had five or six
military people on my show that I've talked about, you know, some type
of encounter, And I don't know if you know, because people are a
lot of people are out in the elements, is that one of the reasons
why they see, you know, possibly see UFOs or do you think there's
a connection any type of connection with military and UFO encounters. One thing you
have to remember, if you're outside, you're probably more likely to see one
than if you're inside looking or looking down at your cell phone. Right.
Yeah. But when I well, I talked to a few people that were
involved in insidings and some of them were kind of funny. I talking to
a colonel about the kin Ross disappearance, and the first thing he said to
me, as well, let me tell you a story, And he said,
we were flying up toward Canada and we saw this glow on the horizon.
We thought it was the moon coming up. As we got closer,
we realized it's not the moon because the moon was in a different part of
the sky. And there's this orange glow that really bothered us until we got
close enough and discovered it was a horse fire. So you know, they
got to the point where you know, they're talking UFO, but they've got
an explanation. The other the other story he told me is about kin Ross,
and that's the eighty nine that disappeared off radar. The object, the
UFO blip, and the F eighty nine blip merged and everybody thought, well,
he flew over it or under it, that sort of thing, But
the blips never separated and the single blip left. So what happened to the
F eighty nine? And that was nineteen fifty three, and we still don't
know. The odds are I probably went into the lake Superior, but we
don't know that. And what he was telling me was that there were two
school thoughts at kin Ross at the time, because he had been there,
and one of them was that it was UFO and it took him. The
other school, which was probably the more prominent school of thought, was that
the airplane had crashed and gone into the lake. But he was saying that
he was up in a fighter doing their thing and were approached by a UFO
it was pacing them, and he said to the wing his wingman, Okay,
we're going to count to three and we're going to turn into it to
see what happens. And I thought, well, this is really a dumb
plan, but that's what their plan was. And he counted three, they
turned towards the uf own they just sped off. And so you've got these
guys who were kin Ross at the time after the disappearance of the F eighty
nine talking about another legitimate UFO signing and what they did. They don't know
what they saw or what happened, but that was what he told me.
So I've talked to military pilots and military personnel who have told me their UFO
stores. My own experience, now, I didn't see anything. I did
have a top secret clearance as an intelligence officer in the Air Force and then
in the Guard. When we went to a rack, so I was seeing
top secret. I could see top secret stuff. Most of the stuff we
saw was classified secret. And that's the other thing to the uf field talks
about top secrets and all this stuff, and they don't understand that the the
difference between secret and top secret is just astronomical. Secret stuff can be stored
in a state safe or locking file cabinet, not not a tin file cabinet,
but but one like that. Top secrets requires a vault. You've got
to sign it out, you've got to make notations where it's gone, where
and when it comes back. I mean, it's very very strict on the
dealing with top secrets. In my military experience, I never saw a top
secret document that dealt with UFOs. Never I saw secret documents that did.
And the sightings were pretty mundane, the kind of sightings that we get all
the time the time, the kind of sightings that we see pilots seeing the
things, people on the ground seeing the things. I talked to people who
told me their UFO stories, but it was not in any kind of official
capacity, So you know, it's just, well, that's an interesting story,
and I'll just file it away in case it comes up later on.
So, you know, I think it just depends on what your mission is,
where you are, what you're doing that you happen to see these things.
And I think if you look at the statistics that you'll find out that
most UFO sidings take place between like six pm and night and ten o'clock at
night. Well, why would that be, Well, there's more people outside,
you know, and when when do you get most of the sidings?
When you get them in the summertime, why more people are outside? You
know, in today's environment, they may be outside, but they're still staring
at the damn phone, so they're not seeing anything. But but I think
if you look at the statistics, you know, and you break them down
that way, you know, it makes sense about when are you most likely
to see something? And what are you doing when you see it? When
you're outside doing something. The one thing that I think I remembered, and
this was like decades ago, that somebody had analyzed at the day and most
likely to see a UFO was I think April twenty fourth, and the and
the I think the day of the week was Wednesday. Wow, if I
remember, I don't remember exactly, but but it just struck me, you
know. And then you started about breaking it down time, Well, it's
after six pm at night and prior to midnight, say, you see it
because the people are outside looking up. So when you ask the question,
I think that the reason you get the military part of the reason you get
the military pilots involved. Of course, is the Air Defense Command and the
requirement to check on aircraft penetrating the air defense zones around the coast players of
the United States. So something penetrates that and is not a commercial flight,
and it's not a flight that has been logged on through the various ways you
do those sorts of things like the FAA. Then the Air Force scrambles to
take a look at it to see what it is. Oftentimes, most times
it turns out to be a commercial aircraft that's off its course or somebody,
you know, it didn't file the proper flight plan. When I was in
flight school, and I didn't know this because I was like eighteen years old,
but we were flying the darn thh fifty five, which has a service
ceiling and like twelve thousand feet, and but you could get it higher if
you if you worked at it and you get the ways, you could defeat
that. And I think I got up to fifteen thousand feet once and then
came down from it, and I realized a little later that the AA requires
a flight plan for everybody over fourteen thousand feet. So I was in violation
of FAA regulations unknowingly. But I don't know if I came up on radar
and then disappeared or what exactly happened. But I think if they if the
radar operator it was going on and knew what was going on in the area,
say well, I wasn't those damn helicopter students trying to see what he
can do that sort of thing. So, I mean, you look at
that sort of thing, so you'd expect the military pilot to maybe see something
more often. US pilots who fly late at night may see something more often
because it's much easier to see the things at night than it would be during
the daylight hours. You know. So I think I don't think there's really
any conspiracy going on about that. Well they're looking for at the military morsel
in the civilian world. Yeah. By the way, April twenty fourth this
year is on a Wednesday, so everyone ought to be outside after six pm.
After six pm, right, And speaking of helicopters, and you know,
the one case I think is really intriguing as the Larry Coin case incident
back in seventy three or whenever it was a helicopter and what do you think
of that case? That's first of all, I had to laugh at Philip
Class because he wrote in his book when he was degrading the case, downgrading
the case, denigrating mckayse, he was he was concerned because Coin took over
the controls from it was a Jesse who was flying it, and but he
didn't. He said, well, as the craft was the aircraft, the
helicopter was going down, plunging down, and he couldn't he couldn't do anything
about it. And then suddenly they popped up to thirty five hundred feet classes,
well, maybe Jesse took over the collectives and pulled up on it so
that because he could see what was going on. I said, no,
not the way it works. I knew they had the same They had the
same training I did. And the one thing you always did. If I
was a pilot in command and I wanted the co pilot to fly, I
would have my hands on the control. I'd say, you've got it.
He would put his hands on the control and said I've got it. I
would release them. Or if I wanted to take control, I would say
i've got it, put my hands on the control. He would release it.
And so Jesse, who was in the other seat wouldn't have been pulling
up on the collective without informing Cone what he was doing. He just wouldn't
work that way. He would have said, he would have. He would
have either mentioned it to him or he would have taken the controls because he
sees the aircraft is about to crash and he says, I've got it.
And I was in experience it with my co pilots as an aircraft commander in
Vietnam. Once the copilot took the aircraft away and made a dive because he
thought we were about to hit another airplane, and he just said, I've
got it. I said, you've got it, and let go of and
he dove and then I said what are you doing? And he said,
I thought we were going to hit that airplane. So now I had it
in sight, it's like, you know, half a mile away, don't
worry about it. But he just caught it, and he thought the aircraft
was in danger, and he took controls. I mean, we were trained
on how to do that. So when Class said that the Jesse had pulled
up on the collective and keep reaching down for the collective because it was with
your left hand the collective pitch which controls up and down it just wouldn't have
happened that way. And both of them are military pilots. Both of them
had been trained the same way I was, with the same flight schools.
I knew exactly what was going on. But I think it's a very good
in case you've got four military people. I talked to one of the guys.
In fact, I had him on my radio show to talk. No
I had invited on me. He didn't want to do it, but I
talked to him about that and what he'd seen and how the things, how
things went in the aircraft. So I got a better idea I did I
did. I think I did a thing on my blog about that and what
he had seen and how that happened. Class, in his analysis ignored one
of the one of the crewmen who had seen the object out the left side
of the aircraft as it passed by the left side, and then it came
up on the right side of the aircraft, so it circled around the aircraft.
So Class was completely wrong on that. But I think it's a very
good case. I don't think there's a good explanation for it. There was
a there was a fellow who said that it was airysfueling aircraft that was supposed
to be air refueling a helicopter in the area, and the air refueling aircraft
got too close to the helicopt Well, you have no air refueling capability on
a Huey helicopter, for one thing. And in the United States, the
air refueling operations take place in certain areas and this wasn't one of the areas
where it would take place. So the explanation kind of failed on those points.
But I mean it was a legitimate attempt to explain the sighting. He
thought he had a good a good explanation, and he pointed out there and
we took a look at it nice When I say we, I mean me,
and talk to some of the people about it. We decided, well,
it's an interesting theory, but I don't think it works based on the
facts. So I think it's a very good case based on the testimonies by
the crew member who were on board. I know Jesse's explanations were a little
bit different than the rest of the crew. He didn't quite agree with some
of the things they said. But you go back and you take a look
at the original statements and you find his statement is more in line with their
statements. As a statement later on sort of um diverge from what they had
to say. Kevin, we got to go to break, and when we
come back for the new listener, Well let's go over like a nutshell of
what actually transpired during that sighting. All right, everyone, My guest tonight
is Kevin Randall, and we'll be right back right after these messages. All
right, we're back. My guest is Kevin Randall. And before the break
we were talking about the Larry Coin case nineteen seventy five. I can't remember
exactly what that is, but I was thinking, you know, for the
new listeners to the show and people are just getting interested in UFOs, do
you know the basic story on what happened? I could say it, but
I think I might miss some miss some things or say it wrong actually for
a lot of it. Well, as I've said before, I know everything.
Okay, that's yeah, Yeah, I believe it was nineteen seventy fan,
it was October of nineteen seventy three, and it was one helicopter.
I've got like I've got like fifteen hundred hours, fourteen hundred hours in the
UH one helicopter eleven hundred of a combat time, so I'm familiar with the
aircraft of how it works. They were on a they had been to um
Dayton, Ohio. I forgued where they've been in a while, Yes,
but they were They had gone for a flight physical and they were flying back
to their home station around Madison, Ohio. And as they were traveling along,
flying along, minding their own business, one of the one of the
crewmen saw light coming at them and it approached on the left side. It
went down the side of the aircraft and disappeared in a few moments later.
The other other crewmen said that it was coming up on the right side,
heading toward them, and that at that point, I think Jesse was flying
the aircraft. Coin was sitting there letting him do that as the air As
the thing came close, he said, I've got it. He took over
control of the aircraft. UM. The objects sort of stopped over the over
the helicopter and big green object that they could see and watched it for a
minute. UM. They the aircraft seemed to be descending at that point,
their aircraft, the helicopter seemed to be sitting descending. UM because Coin didn't
want to collide with this object. Um, then there was some kind there
was there's some kind of radio interference as well. They had been talking to
the Mansfield Airport and they lost radio communication with it. So they because he
were asking for there's other traffic in the area, I mean the other other
aircraft in the area. And the object then shot off and as as it
did, Coin noticed they were in a climb and he couldn't arrest the climb.
And I know what you do in a situation like that. You put
the collective full down and if that doesn't work, you roll off the throttle
to what was called the flight idle d tent. And if that doesn't work,
the last the last thing you do is kick the petals out of trim
and the aircraft out of trim so it would fall faster. Um, that
wasn't working. I don't know if you went through all those procedures or not.
I had a situation where flying in a formation, I was in the
slot position and there were aircraft on each side of me and behind me,
and we were descending into an LZ and the air my aircraft was floating,
and that's what I had to do. I rolled off the throat. I
had the collective pulled out a roll off the throat like kick the pedals out
of trim. And as as that happened, you know, I was able
to stay in my position to the flight couldn't break either way, which which
is what I would have done. And we got close to the ground.
The fleet flares out and everything everything was okay. So they, you know,
I speculate that they that Coin had done the same thing trying to keep
the aircraft to stop. He said he felt the ump. They were thirty
five hundred feet, he felt to thump, and he was able to regain
the air The control of aircraft flew onto their home station, landed and made
the report about what it was said. The compass was spinning wildly. I
think Jesse said they replaced it. They replaced it was a magnetic compass as
opposed to ADF and I think Jesse said, you know, we replaced the
compass, but Coin said we did that, and one of them said it
didn't work properly. Still, I think Coin said after they replaced it worked
okay. Jesse was saying it didn't work properly the second time they replaced it
because there was some kind of interference in the aircraft. And I know when
you put a magnetic compass in an aircraft, you have to do what they
called swinging the compass, which means you align on the air On airfields,
there's what's called a compass road. Just set set an aircraft down there and
you use that to align magnetic north so that you know exactly you can you
know where the compass is, so it's magnetic north and the compass was spinning.
I think um Jenny Zeidman learned that after they had replaced the compass it
worked, okay, So you know, another effect of being close to the
UFO. There were some people on the ground that saw the green light and
saw the helicopter and that sort of thing. So other witnesses on the ground
as well, So it wasn't just the aircrew but all the aircrew, but
other witnesses saw the thing as well. There was no radar return, but
in today's world with stealth aircraft, who cares. You know that stealth aircraft
kind of renders that the no radar return argument moot. So yeah, that's
kind of the basics of it. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah,
you covered that really well. And yeah, that's a real, real good
one, I think, and very scary. You know, you talked about
that military UM. I forget what aircraft was. Were they merged or it
looked like they emerged on radar UM and uh, you know probably went into
the lake U. That's what reminded me of this because you know, it
was almost like they were going to be uh, you know, abducted the
whole unit. You know, in a way it was similar. Well,
there's there's there's any number of aircraft who have disappeared chasing UFOs, and there's
other other encounters with UFOs that caused some kind of problems with the aircraft.
Interestingly, I've noticed, you know, we have the stories of cars being
stole by close approach or UFOs, engines are stalled, the lights fade out
and the radios fade away. We've had close approaches of UFOs to aircraft where
it has affected the electronic systems, the avionics of the aircraft, and yet
it doesn't stall the engines. And yeah, you think you think back to
the day the Earth stood still, where Michael Rennie is going to have to
figure out some kind of demonstration of power and Sam Jeffey said, well,
a little demonstration or anybody get hurt and see shut off all the electricity.
But but they said, even even the exceptions were interesting. You know,
airplanes in flight spittals, things like that. You know, they didn't lose
their electrical power. It was just everybody else. And you know, one
of the things I think about is we don't have a case where an aircraft
accident was caused by the electromagnetic effect. And I couch it in those terms
specifically because there's there's the Australian case where the pilot disappeared, and of course
at F eighty nine that disappeared as well. But you've got close approaches of
UFOs that do affect the avionics and things like that, but don't shut down
the engines. So that's kind of an interesting thing. The other which we
might I mean other here's another point as well, the electromagnetic effects that shut
down the engines the content committing. Others have said, well, we know
of no mechanism to suppress an engine working, you know that way, and
then when the UFO leaves, the engine begins to work properly again. But
I went back and I studied several hundred of these cases of engines being stalled,
and I what I saw was a lot of times they said, well,
the engine worked properly after the UFO left, but it didn't say it
started spontaneously. And you look closer, you find more cases as well.
Once the UFO was gone, I was able to start the car. Yeah,
so they started the engine. So it's not like the engine comes back
spontaneously, but the driver had to take some action to get to get the
engine started. There are cases where they say it started spontaneously, but the
majority of the cases seemed to be that the driver took some kind of action
to start the engine. Even though the radio came back, the lights brightened
up again, the driver had to do something to start to start the engine
of the of the vehicles. You know. Kind of one of the things
that I've noticed as you study some of these cases in depth. Yeah,
you know, I never thought of those cases always really interest me too.
And actually, um, the fact that the engine and the airplane, I
never thought of that. That why does everything else get effective but not that?
And you know I had mentioned on the show a couple of times over
in Russia this, Uh, it's basically my girlfriend's father. You know,
had an encounter where everyone in this mountain pass their engines stalled, and they
went over to the side of the road and got out and watched the cigar
shaped thing, you know with portholes float over. All the engines were stalled
in every car, and after the thing went over, everyone was able to
start up their car and go on, you know. So it's those cases
that just fascinate me. And led Stringfield talked about his encounter with it.
It said it started the engines of the C forty seven to operate roughly,
and the copotit said, you know, prepared to ditch, and then of
course the three objects left and the engine smoothed out and they were able to
continue their trip to Japan. It's right after the end of World War two,
by the way, so and they were leaving from Ewojima to go to
Japan right after the end of the war. And but but the aircraft didn't
crash and the things moved away, so that the engines moved out. So,
you know, I look at all of that sort of thing as a
way of you know, there is there patterns two sidings and things like that.
One of the things I've noticed and something I was putting together. There
was a siding in Cherio Creek, New York in nineteen sixty five, and
they found after the UFO was gone, they found some oily like stubb substance
on the in the fields, and they found some sort of like skid marks
in the past years. And I thought, you know, there's a number
of cases where the physical evidence like that has been found, but nobody's ever
linked them before, you know, And it got me to think, on
do we need a big database, I mean a big spreadsheet where you can
quickly look at that sort of thing. But we mentioned the flat which case
earlier because of the Project Bluebook. In the real case, they did find
some skid marks on the ground and some oily substance left behind. So we've
got this case from nineteen fifty two, and now we have a case from
nineteen sixty five, but the same sort of thing as gone. There was
another case called the tin Can Man from Minnesota, I think, also in
nineteen sixty five, where they found an oily substance. And there's another case
where they found the skid marks and the oily substance. And I can't find
the case because I didn't write it. Down at the time because I just
noted it, but I can't find it out to go back to the files
to see if I can find the specific case. But then I started looking
for cases like that where you've got a skid marks and you know, like
two feet long two three foot long marks, maybe side by side, parallel
or one after another, that sort of thing in the fields where the UFOs
were seen. And you know, I don't know if anybody's ever put that
kind of thing together. Was it Ted? Ted Phillips had done an analysis
of landing traces where he put it together. I think he had four four
thousand and five thousand cases. He said, if you tell me the landing
gear, I'll tell you the shape of the object, So that you know,
that was kind of an interesting thing for him to say. Or if
you tell me the shape of the object, I'll tell you the kind of
landing gear it had. And so if he was able to deduce a pattern
between the shape of the object and the landing gear pattern that you would see
if there was landing your patterns left behind. And he had about four thousand
cases. One of the problems that we when we run into with some of
those landing trace cases is oftentimes the craft isn't seen on the ground, the
craft is seen in proximity, and so there's an assumption that there's a correlation
between the markings on the ground and the craft scene in the sky, and
that may not be a valid scientific conclusion to draw. But by the same
token, you know, as I said, Phillips was able to deduce the
landing year based on the shape of the craft and vice versa. So it's
kind of an interesting thing that I think we need more of in uphology if
we're going to move us to a more scientific realm, is to look at
some of these cases that may be widely separated in time and distance, but
have some of the same physical evidence attributes that maybe would help us understand things
a little bit better. Yeah, I think things like that should be noted.
It reminds me of I know, there's there's pictures of a very unusual
craft that are something like twenty years apart. I can't remember ones in France,
and I just can't remember where the other one was taken, and it
looks like an exact same craft, very mcmonville mcmonville, or maybe it is
mcmonville. Yeah, but the problem the problem with that, I think the
French French picture was taken in nineteen fifty four, so it's only you know,
it's like four years apart. Oh it's four years, okay, but
there's but there's no good source for the French picture. We know, we
know who took the pictures in mcminville, you know, we know all that,
all that information about it. But with the French picture, we don't
have all of that information. So it becomes a little bit problematic. But
that's exactly the sort of thing. And that's the other thing, you know,
how come we when we see pictures of UFOs. Of course, what
we have to remember is about ninety nine percent of them were taken by teenage
boys and of those or hoaxes. But we do not have uh pictures that
were the same object kind of reappears in I was gonna say, a regular
pattern, but not necessarily regular, but regularly, but but reappears in different
places at different times. We don't really have any good photographs like that.
I think the problem of the problems this course, back when you UFOs first
began visiting us, as we say, in the modern era, not everybody
had cameras. Nobody we traveled with cameras and and people were afraid of burning
up film for something that might not come out, so they didn't take pictures,
unlike the ubiquitous cell phone with its twenty six megapixel camera has been embedded
in it, but they don't see the UFOs because they're busy looking at the
phone as a pose ups in the sky. Yeah, that was the one
thing that I've always wanted is a photographic case where you've got independent witnesses at
two or three different locations shooting the same object. And if you had that,
you could get good information about the size of the object, the height
that it was, and the speed it was moving because you can triangulate from
that point. When we don't have a case like that, we've had we've
got we've got cases where we have people in multiple locations seeing a similar thing
Levelland, Texas in nineteen fifty seven, stalling the car engines, and you've
got witnesses, I know, witnesses, witnesses at least thirteen separate locations reporting
the same thing independently to the sheriff or the police department level Land Texas.
But by nineteen fifty seven, everybody was so busy arguing with the Air Force
about what was real and what was not, that nobody was bothering to investigate
the case in depth, and we would have much better information had we now
had those sort of arguments. Keijo said, well, there were nine people
who saw the object and the Air Forces now there was only three people.
And you go through the Air Force file and the documentation available, you find
people at thirteen separate locations it saw this thing and had it interact with the
environment, and there's now information that suggests the sheriff who said, well I
saw the red light in the distance, I didn't get close. I actually
got close enough for it to stall his car engine and that's based on what
his family said. But he had also told him on the Air Force asked
me not to talk about it, and oftentimes the Air Force would ask people,
well, you know, don't talk about your siding, not threatening them
with anyoney, just asked them not to talk, and they wouldn't. They
clammed up at that point. Um Sheriff Wilcox from from Roswell said that when
reporters called him after the Evans, he as well, I'm working with those
boys out at the base and I can't really talk about it. Didn't say
anything about being threatened or any of that. I just said, I,
you know, I can't talk about it. So you know, we've got
those problems in ufology as well, which is kind of a divergent from where
we were going. Hey, I've had a couple of questions come in the
chat rooms quite active tonight, and I haven't really looked for any questions in
there yet. I did catch one earlier that I wrote down, but someone
just emailed me earlier and asked what you thought about the Aurora, Texas case,
which I thought was I don't hope. I want to use the word
debunked, but it heines, Yeah, it's a hoax. It's a hoax.
Well, it was explained right. It was a It was a hoax.
It was just a hoax. Nothing happened. Nothing happened. But here's
the interesting part that people don't realize. Number One is the reporter who initially
reported it did it because he wanted people to become interested in Aurora, Texas.
That was his hometown and he was trying to get people interested in Texas
because the railroad had gone had bypassed Aurora. But the other thing is within
ten years of this event, which took place in April I think April seventeenth
of nine, eighteen ninety seven. Within ten years of that, there were
two books written about the history of Wise County, Aurora's and Wise County.
Neither of those books mentioned this event. I'm thinking if there was a crash
of some kind of bizarre ship an airship in Aurora, Texas in eighteen ninety
seven, without the CIA and the Air Force and everybody trying to suppress the
information, it would have been mentioned in those books. Wow, here's something
interesting that happened in Aurora back in eighteen ninety seven, and it's not mentioned
there, And that, to me is the real for the Aurora, Texas
case. Not to mention other facts that came out. The signal the uh
T J Wims, the signal officer that they quoted a lot of the stories,
he turned out to be the local blacksmith. And for some reason in
eighteen ninety seven they when you when you thought signal officer, you were thinking
intelligence. Signal officers, he's interested in communications as opposed to gathering intelligence.
He was gathering he was he wasn't. But there's there's nothing has ever been
found my blog, I have pictures of the graveyard where the uh the ninety
seven airship or hoaxes. The Great Great Alexander Hamilton calf napping turned out to
be a hoax, and Jerry Clark interviewed the daughter of Alexander Hamilton. Yeah,
not the guy killed by reading kidnapped, And then they found the remains
of it in a field like it had been dropped from the sky, which
were really interesting in the days of cattle mutilations. But Jerry Clark talked to
the daughter and she said, no, it didn't happen. My father belonged
to a liar's club and they were making stuff up. But then then m
Eddie Board found a story in a newspaper from eighteen ninety seven in Atrikin,
Kansas, I think it was anyway, he found a story in there where
Hamilton and sent owners and I made the whole thing up so that so you've
got, you know, the documentation the story was made up. So an
awful lot of the stories you go back in the airship stories, there's a
lot of them where the people are talking about their building airships so they can
go to cubiited bomb the Spanish because this is just prior to the Spanish American
War. In eighteen ninety eight, there was a wonderful story that I read
in the Cedar Rapids Gazette and had a story article of the thing that had
cracked Waterloo, Iowa or landed emergency landed there and the professor who had built
the thing was killed and they were talking about it, and there was an
illustration in the Cedar Rapids Gazette that I had, of course used a number
of times with the permission of the gazette. And I did a book called
I Think It's the Alien Mysteries Book, and one of the editor's jobs was
to find photographs for the book. The guy found a photograph of this thing
that had landed in Waterloo, Iowa. He had a photograph of it,
and so it appears in the book, and I put it up on my
blog too, so you can see the illustration that was done by the gazette
and the actual photograph of the thing. But one of the guys, one
of the guys was recognized as a Waterloo resident, and the whole thing collapsed
at that point because they realized it was a hoax and get your garbage off
our fairgrounds type thing. But what fascinated me was it was an actual photograph
and I never thought to go to Waterloo and look at the courier to see
if there was a photograph of the thing. Because there was, there was
a holograph of it. Kind of blew me away. Yeah, yeah,
um, what are you know along those lines there? You know, because
what happens is sometimes once a story is out there, it's out there so
long that people just take it as fact, you know, without um,
without really looking into it. Are there's some other fairly sizable stories like that
that you're aware of that uh you know, like for instance, I'm trying
to remember there's an early one that that was claimed I've heard claimed to be
a hoax, you know, right after the Kenneth Arnold's sighting or just before
it. Um Island, Yeah, Maury Island? Is that a hoax?
Do you know? Yeah? Absolutely? Yeah. See, there there's a
couple like that that I end up being hoaxes. And that's another one that
almost is down in you know, the UFO lore as a solid case.
If you if you go back and you the one a thing with the Internet
is you can check all of this stuff out now. And what you have
to do is look at multiple sources. You can't find a single source and
read about Marie Island and determine well, that's the truth. You have to
look at multiple sources and see what they have to say and compare all that
information and documentation and then decide for yourself whether it's a hoax. And I
believe Morey Islands as a hoax. It turns out the harbor patrolman, which
gives them some sort of status, were not harbor patrolman. They were in
fact scavenger salvage operators in Pugeit Sound and they would take their boat around and
they would pull logs out of Puget Sound or records. They could find out
a Puget Sound and take it and sell it. This is the story of
They saw six don't it shaped UFOs flying in formation, and one of them
was spewing metal out because it seemed to have been in some kind of trouble,
and the metal fell on their boat and it injured the guy's son,
Harold Dall's son. I think it was killed the dog, But people have
found Harold Dolls Sonny's not never happened. You know, you go to the
hospital, and you can't find any records of the kid being treated. All
those sorts of things. You have to look at all of that sort of
thing. The sad thing about it is Kenneth Arnold was asked to investigate the
case by Ray Palmer, who was a editor of a science fiction magazine,
Amazing Stories, I think it was, and they had been doing the Shaver
mystery, which was this idea that there were the flying saucers came out of
the inner Earth, and there were good robots and there were bad robots,
and they were fighting some kind of war, and all the bad stuff that
happened on Earth the surface of the Earth was the result of these evil robots.
And when the flying Saucer things started, Palmer thought, ah validation for
my stories about about this sort of thing, and so he wanted Kenneth Arnold
to investigate the Maury Island story. When he learned about it, Marnold went
to Tacoma, Washington to interview they. He called two Air Force officers who
had been their Bobrey. Air Forces officers actually too, who had come up
to investigate his sighting. M. Davidson and and I can't remember the other
guy's name Brown Brown. He called them to help him with the investigation.
They got up there, interviewed Doll and Chrissman, who was the other harber
Trollman, and realized it was a hoax right away. In the middle they
had recovered we just kind of a useless slag. They didn't want to take
the samples back to their Fort ham of Hamilton Air Force Base, but they
were pressed on up. They got in their B twenty five to fly back
to Hamilton and the thing crash. So of course then there's all speculation that
the aircraft was shot down to keep the samples out of the hands of the
military and that sort of thing. Before they took off to go back home,
they'd talked to the operations officer at the base where they landed the B
twenty five and said, nah, They said it was a hoax. They
didn't say anything to Arnold because they didn't want to embarrass him. They liked
Arnold and they thought Arnold had you know, Arnold had a good sighting and
Arnold Arnold was just out of his depth. And so you know that Marie
Island turned out to be a hoax. When when you began talking about it,
the sighting that came to mind was the Child's wooded sighting from nineteen forty
eight, where the two airline pilots saw a cigar shaped craft shoot by them
with a lighted cockpit and square windows along the side, and the first reaction
I think of Heineck was that he sounded like a bow light to him,
and they didn't see it. They didn't didn't believe it. A lot of
the military got into it and thought this was a really solid sighting, and
it was kind of one of the precipitating events for the great estimate of the
situation that we hear about in uphology in nineteen sixty eight. I think the
Zon four re entered. It was a Soviet spacecraft and it fell and it
broke up. Most people knew what it was, saw what it was,
but a lot of people thought it was some kind of our shape craft was
windows along the side, and what happens is is the thing begins to break
up apart and it strings out. You get this idea that's a cigar shape
with windows along the side. And some of the drawings that were made of
the Zon for reentry in which we know it was resembled to a great extent
the drawings made by Childs and Witted. I think that case, which was
I guess one of the found foundations of the UFO field, is now explained
as a bowline. There was on YouTube something called meteor compilation. I think
it's three minutes of nineteen seconds that I found and what I want somebody put
together meteor falls that had been recorded on video. And you look at some
of those and you're thinking, you know, as a thing breaks up and
the lights begin to strink out, string out, if you just catch a
glimpse of it, well, it's psychologist I'm called gestalt, where you put
all these things together in your mind. You see an image even though there's
no image there. You try to try to group of the whole thing together.
So if you just get a quick look at it, it's going to
look like a lighted cockpit which square windows along the side. And I think
that's a legitimate explanation for Childs wooded, which does not diminish the UFO field
at all. Just here we have an explanation for this case that was basically
unexplained for the longest time, at least in the world of the ufology.
The Air Force wrote it off as a bowl eight, then changed it,
and then wrote it off as a bowl eight again. But I think the
point is that in that respect, the Air Force got that one right.
They were right on that one. But that's a case. It was kind
of a classic UFO case that we now have, I think a legitimate explanation
for. So we can look at those sort of things. And that's the
thing we have to do is go back and look at these things carefully.
When you get back to eighteen ninety seven, you have to say, you
have to remember that the reporting there was a little bit looser than it is
today. And then I think, you know, fake news, And I
mean we see example after example that in the day's world, where the reporters
just run off on tangents without knowing the full story, and after days we
begin to filter things out and realize what's going on. But in eighteen ninety
seven, um, it was the Hearst Corporation was pushing for a war with
Spain, and when the main blew up in the Harbor, they pushed the
story that it was sabotaged, and that kind of dragged us into that war.
So you had a lot of that, and you had a lot of
the stuff where the reporters were making things up, and the Great the Great
Airship is the prime example of that that the reporters would make up the stories
to have something in the newspaper. There were telegraphers in Iowa who kept the
story alive. You know, one telegra for in the town would say,
well, it's over here, and it's heading toward the next town. And
pretty soon the telegra for there would come on it, Yeah it's over here,
and now it's heading to a different town, and so they we kind
of track it around the state of Iowa. But it was all made up
by the telegraphers and just having a little bit of fun. Now, the
reporter that was that was that the late nineteenth century. That was eighteen ninety
The Great Airship of eighteen ninety seven. Jerry Clark and I disagree on this.
I think it was all bogus. I don't think there was ever an
airship. Jerry Clark thinks there was a core of good sightings that came out
of California in eighteen ninety six that kind of sparked us. I think I
think Jerry's wrong on that. But and Jerry thinks I'm wrong. So you
know, it's one of those things where we disagree, but we can disagree
as gentlemen and say, well, you know, we'll have to agree to
disagree. But I think the eighteen ninety seven airship is basically the figment of
a lot of people's imagination and a lot of hoaxing going on. People just
having a good time with the stories, right right. You know, one
thing I forgot to explain at the beginning of the show, some of just
asking the chat room is why is my show Monday night? And why is
it later? And I never I never even mentioned that. So, yeah,
it was you. It's my fault, my fault. Yeah, but
that's okay. I've looked at it this you know, I look at it
this way. It's always great having you on, and I don't mind accommodating
you in this s and circumstance. So yeah, well I appreciate that.
Yeah, well, Tuesday nights at seven o'clock hours, just I can't do
it at seven o'clock on Tuesday nights. Yeah, so it was my fault.
And I you know, if we could have done it an hour later
or whatever, that would have been fine. But you know, Tuesday night
just didn't work for me, so yeah, yeah, and I appreciate the
accommodation too, by the way, Yeah, taking doing this for me,
helping me out. Well, it seems like we have a lot more people
on YouTube. Maybe it's a good time spot. Maybe you help me discover
something. I'm not sure. Someone wrote early on and when we first started
the show they wanted you two. And I think you've talked about this on
a show, maybe not the last one, the time you were on before.
But what your thoughts are about Roswell, now, that's what the question
is. Yeah, give me a chance to promote a book. I did
a book called Roswell in the twenty first Century, which is available right now
this minute on Kindle. You could be reading it in thirty seconds. But
what I did was I looked at the Roswell case as a cold case,
gone back to all the witnesses, gone back to the documentation, gone back
to everything that I could find on Roswell, looking at it as dispassionately as
I possibly could, and then put it all together in the book. And
I think that while in the early nineteen nineties a lot of us thought that
Roswell was a very robust case with a lot of good stuff. Since that
time, Laval witnesses have blown up. Lat of witnesses proved out to be
proved to be less than candid with their descriptions of what they saw. We
haven't been able to find any documentation. I'm concerned that we couldn't find a
diary somebody kept a private diary that explains some of this stuff. Although Denise
Marcel and some of the Marcell family said that their father, their grandfather,
Jesse Marcell Senior, did keep a diary and it's in their hands and they're
doing various testings so that when the skeptics say, ah, you guys just
wrote this last week, they can say no, here here's the evidence that
show that this diary was completed in the nineteen forty seven nineteen forty eight time
frame. We did find one diary kept by Ruth Barnett, which has to
do with the planes of Sant Augustine crashed it delt was brought into the Roswell
case. No mention of anything on the planes of Sant Augustine in that diary,
which was very disturbing, suggesting that you know, we got the time
frame wrong, or nothing happened for some reason. Barney Barnett was spinning the
tail. But we never find anything like that. So I looked at all
of this and put it together as best I could in the book Roswal in
the twenty first century looked in depth at the Project Mogul explanation, which I
am absolutely astonished that we have a document written by the man who was in
charge of Project Mogul, Albert Crary, doctor Creary, who says on the
flight that supposedly landed on the Braswel ranch and explains the whole thing, wrote
on the date June fourth, no flight today. Excuse me, doesn't that
pretty well rule out Mogul? I think you know that sort of thing.
I looked at the MJA twelve documents in depth, looked at a lot of
these sorts of things in depth, tried to put the story together at best
I could, based as it is a cold case. So my feeling is
it's not nearly as robust as it was. Some of the witnesses aren't as
good as we thought they were. Some of the evidence is not panned out
like we hoped it would. And when we get right down to it.
We're left with no explanation for what fell at Roswell. And that's I can
lean toward the extraterrestrial because there I can find no terrestrial explanation for it.
But by the same token, that may be a leap that I do not
want to take without some better evidence for it. So where we are right
now is we've got some very interesting stories about the Roswell case, and we
got to look at all of that stuff. We have no nation for what
fell at Roswell. Does is that sufficient to take us to the extraterrestial I
think the person reading the book or studying the case has to make that determination
for himself or herself. Well. Another thing, besides the diaries, people
write letters, you know, And I'm surprised the letter has never surfaced that
someone wrote, you know, either from the base, you know, to
a loved one or whatever, say hey mom, you know you can't believe
what I saw, or something like that. And I've still got all the
letters that I wrote home from Vietnam in sixty eight and sixty nine, which
gives you an idea of how old I am if my picture didn't give it
away. But uh, but I have I have. I have those letters,
and I know my wife's got though the letters that her father wrote home
to his to her mother from World War two. So families keep those sorts
of things. And the best we can look at is Inez Wilcox, who
was the uh sure wife the sheriff George Wilcox in Rosinal in nineteen forty seven.
And Wilcox was involved and she did a story she thought for She wrote
it for the reader's digest. I guess called three four years in the County
Jail and the gag was, of course, she was a matron for the
jail when her husband was the sheriff, so they weren't incarcerated, they were
running the jail. And in there she put the story of the of the
seeing the little the crash and the little men. The problem with it is
it's not dated. We don't know when she wrote it, and it was
an addition that she added to the story after the original story had been written.
It never got published, but it was I think it was like page
eight A or something like this, and there was a paragraph about the UFO
the Flying Saucer crash. But it's not dated. I found out that she
had passed away in nineteen eighty nine, while the Rosale Incident book came out
in nineteen eighty so it wasn't like you, So it could she could have
been intaminated from that source or some of the documentaries I think in Search of
did something on Roswell in the early nineteen eighties, So it's possible that she
had seen that. But that you know, we're not that document It's interesting,
but without a date on it, we're just kind of well, you
know, she could have written it long after the story became well known in
the public arena. Also, when you were talking about the Marcel's supposed diary,
it would be very hard to prove that that diary is from nineteen forty
seven because there could be so many uh, you know, there are I
just see so many different ways people even fake thinks as early as Abraham Lincoln
autographs and things like that. There's there's ways to to find Civil War paper,
there's ways to find, you know, nineteen forties diaries that are empty,
and you know, I mean, it's going to be a real tough
one to prove. I think, Well, but but then you can look
at the ink and you can look for anachronisms. UM. There are things
that you can be done to validate it, validate the um the diary.
I don't think that Marcel family would participate in any kind of hope that I'm
just talking about the skeptics, But I think, but I think the ink
can be the ink can be UM. The formulation of the ink can be
examined. That's true. Is if it's pencil, then you know, that's
that's a little tougher you been around, you know, But you can take
a look at the way the graphite is on the page and things like that
to see if it's aged properly. So there are things you can do.
The big thing is talking in that arena the Dala Pinya diary from the Alamo,
which is the one where the story that Davy Crockett surrendered comes from.
And uh, the idea. You know, they looked at the ink,
they looked at all of that sort of thing, and they were unable to
establish the provenance of the diary. So you can believe that the day La
Penya diary is an authentic document from the Texas Revolution, or it was a
modern forgery, you know, depending on what you want to believe. And
so we understand that on the other side of that coin, we had the
great faked um George W. Bush documents that got Dan rather in trouble,
and they were able to establish that the documents were modern right, and he
just went down the tubar. They wanted to believe so badly that George W.
Bush had not fulfilled his duty properly, and the documentations that they had
that proved it. Just the documents they had were copies. They didn't have
the real documents. And at that point, you know, you're dead in
the water and trying to validate this stuff. And after they got called on
it, then they began to look at it. Specifically. Peter Titel,
who by the way, was the first person approached by Stan Freedman to validate
the MJ twelve documents and believes them to be a hoax, was called by
CBS to validate these papers, and by the time he got back to him,
he was out of town or something. By the time he got back
to him, they had found other document for document examiners to look at it.
But Peter Titel was originally approached by CBS to validate those documents. So
now we got Peter Titel, who's tied into MJ twelve and the great George
W. Bush document forgery fiasco wowow, which by the way, I should
point out, does not mean that George W. Bush fulfilled his National Guard
service properly. It means the documents they were going to to prove it were
forgeries and they could they couldn't find other documents to support the allegations. Yeah,
I think I'm going to I think I'm going to attempt to take a
phone call now, as I mentioned earlier, on this little tiny Mac computer,
and I'm not really sure if I'm going to be able to, but
that phone number is going up on the line right now. If someone wants
to call in and ask a question, that number six h three nine six
seven four zero three zero. I get calls all the time off off you
know, off hours. And someone called the other day and asked to speak
to Stanton Friedman because I did this show with him several months ago. So
they watch it on YouTube and watch the number come up. So this is
showtime only. This phone numbers active showtime only. And so if someone wants
to try to call in ahead they like stands phone number I have it.
I'm sure he'd appreciate me giving it out. Yeah, that's right, let's
give it over live. Yeah. So so I'm sure there's other questions up
on the chat and let's see. I just want to see if I can
pull up anything right now. But the direction that you think until we have
you know, either someone call in or I find a question and up here?
What do you think that you think the direction is going pretty good as
far as u uthology goes, or what's your thoughts on it? You know,
some people you say they should drain the swamp, you know, on
and on and on, But what do you think in general? M since
uh, you know, for instance, since the we have a call coming
in, it looks like I'm not able to join the call. So we're
gonna have to take down the call number. I'm sorry. I'm using a
different computer and I thought it would work. No call tonight. If you
have any questions, um, please just put that in the chat room and
I'll try to get to that. And so I basically was asking Kevin,
what do you think the direction of uthology is going in in general? Oh?
I'd like to say I'm hopeful, but I see too much nonsense being
embraced. There was a woman on a radio program, oh a year ago
or so that decided that her research had proven that none of us had been
into Iraq. We had actually been to Mars and yeah, and fought on
Mars, and then we were brainwashed when we came back to be convinced we
were in Iraq and um, and people buy that nonsense. There's these guys
claiming to be time travelers. Um. You know, if you're a time
traveler, give me the lottery numbers, please, thank you. Um,
tell me what stock to buy tomorrow. You know, what's the price of
gold? Going to do anything that I could, I could become rich on
Uh. And they embraced this nonsense. One guy claimed that he had been
abducted as a teenager, fought on Mars for twenty years and returned been returned
home like fifteen minutes later after he disappeared through some kind of time manipulation.
And I'm thinking, people buy this crap, and unfortunately they do. But
it's been that way since the beginning. You had the contact ease where their
nonsensical stuff. Georgia Damski was you know, his pals on Venus. I'm
thinking, Yeah, what kind of metal do they make their spaceships out of?
Them? On Venus there doesn't make it really really hot. Yeah,
what kind of air conditioning build do they have? Um? You know,
and I see that stuff and I think, you know, people just don't
apply any logic to what they're being told. Some of the stories are just
so outrageous and people say, yeah, that's true, and the next thing
you know, they're well, they're spouting that stuff off. And that's kind
of worrisome. And I know that there's been people waiting for the old garden
you followed you to die off so the young whipper snappers can take over and
get us to the answers. What I'm thinking, if there don't have any
better powers of critical thinking than they've displayed, they're going to take it off
into a really weird place. Well, I think a lot of that is
the people that latch onto that are are looking for something to latch onto.
I think there's a lot more logic well, you know, like the flat
earthers or you know, any of that. But I think there's a lot
of people out there that are more you know, well, at least the
people that listen to the show I get. I get a lot of email.
They like the fact that I try to follow logic as much as possible
and try to keep you know, away from the fringe as much as possible.
So I think there is there's just a second. But on the other
side of that coin, you know, I come on your program, for
example, and I try to explain logically with evidence what has happened and what's
going on, and then I'm attacked and vilified. Well, you're nothing but
a show for the Air Force. You're some kind of special agent for the
Air Force with a mission to h disinformation mission. Yeah. I've actually had
someone write me about you, Yes, something similar. Yeah, well there
you go. But the point is if you if you look at the evidence
and where it goes, I go where the evidence goes. That's where you
should And if and if the evidence doesn't take me there, I'm not going
to go there. If I wanted to be the number one UFO guy would
stand moving out of the way. I would brace everything. Yep, cattle
are being mutilated by UFOs. Yep, crop circles are real. Yep,
people are being abducted a wholesale you buy into all of you. But yes,
I was truly on Mars. And now that my my the ten years
has been since a fifteen years since I got back my security clearances expired,
I can tell you about the big war on Mars. And it was brilliant
because what they did was if we were to call an email or buy online
something from Walmart, we would get it within a week. Talk about the
distribution system against stuff from Walmart to Mars in a week, for crying out
loud, we could call home with no time delay, you know, rather
than you know, eight or nine minutes between wherever we happen to the orbits
happened to match up wherever it was, maybe as much as twenty minutes,
we could call home with instantaneous you know, all of that stuff not a
problem. And so I just cannot embrace all of that stuff. If I've
got an explanation for case, I've got to give it. You want a
case that's great, look at level Land. There's no explanation for that.
And you've got the UFO seen by everybody. That's a wonderful case that suggests
some kind of visitation. When is that one November of nineteen fifty seven,
You know, um, there's there's great cases out there that are lost in
the noise of the crap. Cases that people want to promote that just make
no sense and don't fit into the UFO a phenomenon properly. Well, let's
you know, lightness on that case in particular, if you would, but
level land. Yeah. November two, nineteen fifty seven, M. Pedro
Cecido, who was a career war veteran, I mentioned that because reward veterans
deserve some recognition, had his car his truck stall object landed near him,
the lights faded, the truck stalled. He was panic jumped out of the
truck, rolled underneath that. The passenger sat there staring at the UFO.
It took off the car, his truck started. He went and it's not
clear whether he called the sheriff or he visited the sheriff, but people ignored
him didn't believe his story. Not long after that, other people began having
similar circu experiences with UFO approaching them, the car dying, the lights going
out. There were two farmers in Pettit, Texas who were running two column
combines. They both died at the same time with the UFO produce closely so
you've got people at thirteen separate locations talking about these sorts of interactions with the
environment. The sheriff goes out looking for it. The original story was he
saw a streak of light in the distance, but the family says no,
he got a lot closer and his car stalled out. There was information that
there was a landing trace case. It was burned circle on a ranch close
to level Land, Texas that the sheriff saw and went out to take a
look at that. If we had investigated that case in nineteen fifty seven properly,
rather than the Air Force officer shouldn't say officer Air Force NCO who investigated
most of the day in level Land talking to a few of the people,
the Air Force rote it off as ball lightning, a phenomenon they couldn't even
prove existed in nineteen fifty seven, so they explained an unknown phenomenon with another
unknown phenomenon, and everybody said, yeah, ball lightning works for me.
Ball lightning is very small and very short lived and very rare. But it's
a case with all of the UFOSC, the UFO interacting with the environment.
You had lots of witnesses independently reporting to the police and the sheriff. You
had law enforcement officers seeing the thing, This would be a case that would
have been great. Two hours later, I think it was something is seen
at White Sand's missile range by a couple of MP's there. I talked to
one of the MPs, guy named Glenn Toy told me, told me that
the Air Force explanation of it being the moon didn't work because they saw land
one hundred yards away and men take off. The next day, two more
MPs saw a similar thing. So you've got a series of sightings that take
place over about a twelve hour period around leveland Texas, where the UFO is
seen by lots of different people and interacts with the environment. Great case.
But then you look at Child's Witted for example, which we talked about a
little bit earlier. I think there's a legitimate explanation. I'm not going to
ignore what is it legitimate explanation for this case based on the evidence, especially
when we've got a similar case from nineteen sixty eight that is explainable by things
breaking up in the atmosphere as it returned to Earth. So you know you've
got to you can look at all of that sort of thing. But if
I wanted to be the number one UF Oh gay yeah, Rord Texas.
Yeah, alien spacecraft crash there. Yes, I'm on board. I'm on
board. Well, in fact, I was at Wright Patterson Air Force Base,
and now that I'm out, I can tell you I saw the bodies
at Wright Patterson Air Force Base. I was right there in the hangar with
him and looked down at him, me and me and Corso. Oh he
was at Fort Riley. I'm sorry at Fort Riley. But you know,
you've got to go where the evidence takes you and release your belief structure and
what you want to believe and look at wherever the evidence takes you. Yeah,
they're very well said, very well said. In the chat room,
someone wanted you to talk about. I don't think you had any connection to
this case, but the ja L sixteen twenty eight, you know, over
Alaska, that case, which I think is a really fantastic case. But
it's a great case. Yeah. I actually I actually foyed a couple of
radar operations on that to see if I could determine a little bit more about
the radar and got some got a quick response from the Air Force on that
what I was trying to do is a lot of times the radar facilities feed
the radar information to different entities like the FAA or the Air Force. The
Air Force puts its own discrimination on the radar returns. The fa puts different
discrimination on it to read out the mundane like birds and that sort of thing.
But you've got a great case. You've got pilots who've seen the thing
for a long time. What is more important about that is the reaction to
the guy lost his flying job after reporting the UFO. But I don't think
there's a good explanation for that case, and I think it's I think it's
a wonderful case with the only the only bad thing is they didn't get a
good picture. They had cameras, they just didn't take pictures. I don't
I don't know, but in those sorts of circumstances, and if you're the
pilot sometimes it's really hard to worry about taking pictures of something if you're trying
to fly the airplane at the same time. But they did. They did
the sort of thing you would expect them to do in an attempt to identify
what it was, and they were unable to do so. So there,
that's a very good case as well. I wrote about it in one of
I think the Government UFO Files book. I think I wrote about that and
there and at that point I was I did some foil work into the Air
Force and that sort of thing. From what I understand, Nightcap was able
to help that pilot get his get um well Richard Haynes. Richard Haynes,
Yeah, he was able to get him get his flying job back. He
had been he had been devoted to a desk, and they did manage to
get back into a flying job. But that also kind of underscores that,
well, if you see a UFO, you may lose your flying job,
which would inhibit people from talking about I didn't see any of that. It
wasn't in the those encounters whore they asked the airline PID, do you want
to report you? If I said no, I don't think so. Yeah,
I didn't see anything. Yeah, and you know, I understand,
but I think I think that's loosening up. We've seen evidence of that recently
with the Arizona um faa uh situation, also Oregon and the Irish, well
Irish, that's Ireland a whole different thing. But still there's been a couple
of cases where the FAA has been very responsive. Um at least I had
Tyler Rogeway who writes for the War Zone, and he was able to get
information right away or even recordings. So it seems like they're loosening up a
little bit. On the ja L case. I talked to John Callahan,
who was the fa investigator on that, and I got his, uh,
you know, after he'd given his talk at the citizen hearing in Washington,
d C. Nineteen UM twenty thirteen. I actually got the transcript of his
remarks. He gave them to me. So what I did my report on
it for for the book, I had his remarks from from his talk and
that the things that he learned because they had the radar track of the of
the object and they could put together everything in a in a timeline. The
one thing he did say is the f the CIA guys showed up and said,
we weren't here, you know, we didn't. We didn't we didn't
hear this. We're not here. Yeah, but uh, but you know,
so that's a good case. And I talked to John Callahan for a
while about it and got got his uh. The transcript of his remark.
So I have you know some good information on that that came from another one
of the people who was directly involved in the investigation, right, and just
we only have three minutes left just for again, we have a lot of
new listeners and um, you know someone has written in the chat room,
oh I'm going to look into that case or whatever. So U can you
can you give the overall of this case what happened which it was just it
was just it was just the the pilot and the crew of I think it
was a cargo plane as opposed to a pastor plan had seen seen the object,
kept track of it. They made a number of turns to see if
they could um get any more information or how it reacted their turns, and
eventually it disappeared in the distance and they flew on and completed their mission.
But there's the radar information about it. I mean, if you go you
go to the internet, look up ja L sixteen twenty eight and you'll get
a lot of information. I think it's in uh, I can't remember if
it's in the government UFO files book that I did. You can you can
go there and take a look at that which is available on Kindle. You
can be looking at it in twenty minutes or twenty seconds. Um, I
don't I don't believe I did anything on my blog about it, though,
I don't think that's on the blog yet. So yeah, yeah, that
that was really an amazing thing. It was like looked like the shape of
a walnut or something like that. Yeah, oh yeah, it was huge
and h and they had it on the weather radar, which is important because
the weather radar is on the aircraft and then the radar on the ground track
the things. So you've got two separate eight radar returns of it as well.
Yeah, yeah, two independent radars showing this object. So there was
something real there. And they did that big circle and the thing falled along,
which is uh yeah, something else. And I don't know, it
must have scared the heck out of them. I would think, you know,
how do you explain something like that? It's pretty It's such a mystery.
I don't I don't understand why in the day is world people would be
frightened by this. But you know, I read all kinds of cases where
the first reaction is fear, and I'm thinking, you know, I think
flying I would have. I would have fear flying more than anything else.
You know, if I was up, if I was a pilot flying a
plane, I saw something. You just feel vulnerable up in the sky,
you know, I think. See I'm not sure I agree with that because
being a combat pilot, we saw lots of stuff in the sky. Well
of lights in the sky. Yeah, yeah, called tracers. So if
you would give out your your blog, your blogspot and how people can uh
get your books and all that. Amazon right, oh Amazon, Kendall has
the book so you can get them immediately. The blog is www dot Kevin
Randall dot blogspot dot com. There's a lot of stuff on there. Um,
there's there's information about the programs that I have, the program I hosted
as well, and one of the ones that just recently was Treasure Quest and
about how much reality is involved in that program. That got a lot of
people looking into it. And I had one of the guys on the ship
from the show on my program, so you can go listen to what he
has to say about Treasure Quest. But that's at www dot Kevin Randall dot
blog dot com. The books are at Kendall. Just type my name in
there and you can find it and there's usually some information about it, so
you can just termine which book you want. The latest book was Encounter in
the Desert, which is about the Lonnis of More sighting in nineteen sixty four,
which is a good sighting Lannie. Yeah, so this one that I
don't debunk. Yeah, yeah, that's a great one. All right.
Kevin, Hey, thanks so much, pleasure as always, Thank you very
much, appreciate all the time. Oh you bet, and we'll have you
on again as a regular guest, I'm sure. So you take care,
all right, you too, Thank you much. All right, thank you.
All right, everyone, So that's it for our show, and let's
see next week we have another interesting show, and that is we have a
U follogists from I think he's Beijing, China's actually a Chinese you follogists.
He speaks English a little bit of an accent, but I've he's very understandable
and I think you're going to really love the show next week. His name
is he likes to be called Chuck, so that's what we're gonna call him,
Chuck Faye, and he will be on next week. I want to
thank everyone that helps out with the show and behind the scenes and you the
listener, and I also want to thank the people that support the show.
All right, everyone, so remember to keep your eyes to the sky.