WEBVTT

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Hey guys, it's Jack. I
just wanted to talk to you today about

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a way that you can help support
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go and check us out at patreon
dot com. Slash The Teamhouse, Special

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Operations, cobert Os ASB and I
The Team House with Your Hopes, Jack

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Murphy and David bark. Hey,
everyone, welcome to the episode two hundred

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and eighty seven of The Team House. I'm Jack here with Dave and our

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guest on tonight's show. We're really
happy to have here in studio, Dave

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Fielding. He's the author of Into
the Darkness. Dave served in First Special

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Forces Group and then he went on
to be an Army intelligence officer. All

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kinds of fun stories and some not
so fun, but also a lot of

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good ones. So thank you for
coming in. Man. We're really happy

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to have you here tonight. Thank
you so much for having me. Guys,

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Like, seriously, this is this
is a really big opportunity. See

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that. That's how heavy the book
is. It might be thin, but

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you know it's knocking stuff over the
way it is knocked over our coffee.

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Yeah, exactly, can't do that. But no, seriously, really great

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to be here, and just thank
you so much for having me and help

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me get that message out there.
Well. And I mean you went above

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and beyond too by comparison to some
of our other guests. I mean I

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got pages of handwritten notes that you
gave me with little pps and wee weis

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drawn in the margins. Now I'm
just kidding about that part. But uh

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so let's let's jump into it man
and start. You want to do the

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important. VPN's are very important.
I never leave home without it. Definitely

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about PIVPN and back to you, Jack

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and Dave and me so also Dave. So let's let's jump a little bit

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into where you know, we'll start
your story from the beginning actually going way

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back to your grandpa. And I
know he had an interesting military history.

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I mean, can you tell us
a little bit about your family history.

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Absolutely, I'd love to. Uh
So. My grandfather originally emigrated over from

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Great Britain when he was about four
years old and settled in the Boston area.

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We come from a long line of
bricklayers from Birmingham area, which is

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I like to joke with my father
and say that we're really good at manual

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labor. I kind of transcended,
it transcends well into special operations, you

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know. But so but his story
begins in the sometime in the nineteen thirties.

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He joins the Marine Corps and he
was first airborne Marine Group. He

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was a tail gunner on the back
of the plane and he served in the

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Philippines. But at that time around
by the time he got out, the

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America was the only only it was
going to war to help out World War

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two. So he went up to
Canada and enlisted in the Royal Air Force

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at the time, and they because
of his airborne, his Marine Corps airborne

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experience, they made him an officer
and he was a navigator on a Lancaster

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airplane. And so it's kind of
cool because he was in one of the

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first special operation units that the British
had. He was in the Pathfinder Group.

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So their job was they would fly
far ahead of all the bombers and

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basically paint the targets for the bombers
behind them, find the factories, find

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you know, the sensitive sites,
the heavy water factories, all these things,

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you know, thousands of bombers to
come in and drop arms on.

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He was shot down in February nineteen
forty four and he was the only man

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that survived. He saved his own
life by parachuting out of the plane.

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But to make matters worse and the
madness that happened, he lost his boots.

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His boots got blown off, and
so he's running around evading capture for

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about two weeks. Where was this
that he got shot down? I think

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it was on he was coming back. He was on return from a mission

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from Frankfurt is where I think is
where he got shot down. I don't

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know where he ended up on the
map of Germany, to be honest,

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but I behind enemy lines, definitely
behind enemy lines, Like yeah, And

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it was kind of cool because,
like one of the stories that he told

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my father and my father told me
was when he was evading, he came

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up to a bridge and there was
like some a German century and he sat

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there and waited. He's like,
I know, this guy's got to take

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a piss at some point, and
it's just it's just kind of funny,

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like you know, in the moment, like you know, to see that

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thinking, to hear that thinking,
right, and then later in life,

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you know, going through se your
school and all the other stuff, and

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the Special Forces qualification course, it's
you know, to hear you know,

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think of those things too. You
know, learning from him, but he

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ends up getting captured and then they
he did a death march through I think

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they were bringing him to stalog loof
three when they marched him, and what

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kept him going was he saw a
horse and buggy carriage, but the horses

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were long gone, but it was
two. It was an older woman and

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a man frozen to death in it. And he just said, oh,

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I'm gonna keep moving man, I
gotta keep moving, right. And by

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the time he showed up to stalog
three, uh, they put him right

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in the infirmary because they were gonna
amputate his legs due to frostbite. Luckily,

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the German doctor just saved his legs. But also while he was in

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the infirmary, the Great Escape happened. And so afterwards, while he was

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recovering, he was helping working on
the second set of tunnels. So his

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job was he'd be sitting in his
little chair, can't move and he would

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close the book and they would stop
working on the tunnels. Right, So

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it's really so he helped out with
the Steacraft. Yeah, so he helped

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out the Steve the Queen movie.
So if you've seen the Steven, some

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of these things that you know,
a lot of those are his stories too,

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and later on he was a pow
for eighteen months when he was in

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that camp. But you know,
it's it's funny. I look at him

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and thank god they never took his
legs. They saved his legs as he

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run. He was running marathons well
into his sixties. Yeah, yeah,

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yeah, Jack Fielding, the tough, tough dude. You know, yeah,

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when when your grandpa was liberated from
the camp. I'm interested in kind

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of how that took place because I
recently read Sage's memoir, who was in

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the OSS and one of the founders
the Daddy's of Special Forces, and he

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actually fell in with the Soviets.
The Soviets were moving in and he ended

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up with this bizarre journey through Soviet
Russia and eventually getting out through Odessa.

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What was your grandpa's experience, Like, I know that I don't know all

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the details, but I know he
was he was liberated by the Russians,

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and then that that story kind of
got lost towards the EBB and flow of

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time. You know, Yeah,
but I wonder if he crossed paths with

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Jerry, And you know, it's
they're all so similar. M yeah,

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I know, and it's like it's
it's so crazy because you know, it

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was at first, at first my
grandmother got a letter that he was k

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I A. And then three four, six months, like I don't know

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how long, but it was several
months later of Red Cross, he got

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a red she got a Red Cross
message that he was alive. So keep

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to mind that he was all his
family was back in Boston, nass while

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you know, he was serving in
the in the in the British Mility or

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the RAF, the Royal Air Force. So you know, it was like

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obviously it was probably how do we
track this person out? So terrible.

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I mean imagine thinking your husband's dead
for three months and yeah yeah, and

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then all of a sudden, out
of no, you know, he's alive.

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Like I mean, it's I mean, thank god he is. I

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want to be here today. Yeah
right, wow. So your your grandpa,

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I mean probably he went through Odessa
also to get out of there and

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get repatriated, I would imagine.
But what was then the rest of like

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your family history from then on,
I mean obviously your parents and then you

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come along. Yeah, yeah,
definitely. So it was it was really

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interesting because you know, my grandfather, he when he was raising my dad,

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he would bring him up to the
White Mountains in New Hampshire and you

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know, do tough hikes, do
stuff outside, very outdoorsy, you know

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type stuff, and so it was
it kind of almost became came like a

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family rite of passage, so to
speak. And so I definitely remember the

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first hard thing that I did,
you know, growing up with tales of

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my grandfather, because he passed away
when I was very young, like two

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or three, and so everything I
you know, it's all living through you

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know, word of malt through my
father and his brothers and sisters and stuff

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like that. And so but I
remember I was, you know, living

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like it was a larger than life
legacy for me, and it was important

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to me to sort of he was
always a role model for me, even

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in death. I mean, he
was such a strong figure at that absolutely,

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and it's like just the story I
told you, it's like holy crap,

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you know, but he you know, you take my father up in

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the White Mountains. And so my
father made it a point when I was

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very young to take me up there, and I remember we did Mount Lafayette,

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which is about a nine mile loop
and I was like eight, I

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think I was eight years old,
eight years old, and I had my

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little eastpac backpack on and uh and
I had Tiva shoes on. Not exactly

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something that you want to be doing
a long hike in the White Mountains,

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but it was in the summertime.
But we got to the top and the

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weather got bad and we got caught
in a miststorm and I had no idea

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wasn't any danger at all, but
like, you know, my father's behind

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me, and he's like he's hanging
on the backpack and like hanging on a

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dear life while like I'm trying not
to blow off the ridge, right,

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and I'm like this is fun.
Yeah, you know. So but you

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know at the time, I was
like like flapping in the wind, like

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yeah, wait. But you know, I was like, I'm finishing this

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hike, you know, eight year
old me. He's like, I'm finishing

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this hike. I'm doing it for
Grandpa, you know, and it's like

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and so it was his legacy was
made me always wanted to do hard things,

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you know, reach for the stars, you know kind of, and

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it kind of led me into going
into boy Scouts. I found you know,

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I found out. I was like, oh, wait, you guys

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go hike in the mountains and you
guys camp at elevation and all this other

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stuff. So I not becoming an
eagle scout, but it was really good

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for me. I remember the first
overnight I did and boy Scouts, I

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was like twelve eleven or twelve was
winter survival, right, and probably I

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think like a lot of the the
character building that happened that night was being

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prepared, you know, with the
right gear. Pretty much everyone heard my

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teeth chattering like across a woodline.
Yeah, you know, I didn't have

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a ground pad, didn't have an
it didn't have a winter bag, yeah,

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winter sleeping bag. And so I
was like, oh, I'm never

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getting caught my pants down again.
So it was a lot of doing these

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these things like and and just going
up to the White Mountains all the time

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and having these challenging experiences, you
know, in thinking about, you know,

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what my grandfather stood for and how
he was as an individual, you

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know, and it kind of shaped
who I am, yeah, you know,

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and shaped kind of this sort of
mentality of like you know, what's

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reach you know, let's do hard
things, you know, hard things build

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character. And yeah, so it
was like pretty cool and yeah that led

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I mean at a certain point in
your life as a young man, you

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have what exactly was it a summer
camp at Norwich? Oh, thank you

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00:14:13.480 --> 00:14:18.679
for bringing that up. So it
was a weekend camparee they had at Norch

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University. So Norch University is a
military college up in Vermont, and it

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is not known for its acceptance rate. It's known for its attrition rate.

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And you know they'll take you as
you are, right, but it's very

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difficult to want to stay there,
you know, for you not only you're

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dealing with adjusting, you know,
to be you know, in a in

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a military environment doing cadet land stuff, but also adjusting to the weather up

206
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there too. You know, it's
like negative thirty in the month of January

207
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typically. And but so I was
on this when I was in my boy

208
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Scout troupe. I went to a
camparee and I remember the the early in

209
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the morning, five am. They
wake us up with the howitzer and the

210
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cadets are screaming and yelling. They're
like get out of bed, get the

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fuck out of bed, right,
and they're like kicking the tents and they're

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playing Hell's Bells from ac DC and
on the loud speaker, and they're yelling

213
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at us, and in the midst
of all the chaos, I'm looking around

214
00:15:20.559 --> 00:15:24.679
with this huge smile on my face, like this is fucking awesome. And

215
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I remember later on, I'm like, is this how it is every day?

216
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They're like yeah, And I'll just
say this, it was the only

217
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college I applied to. Was it
like that every day? Yeah? Yeah,

218
00:15:39.799 --> 00:15:43.440
yeah, it was like that every
day. And and god forbid,

219
00:15:43.440 --> 00:15:46.320
if you left your door unlocked to
your room, you know, you come

220
00:15:46.360 --> 00:15:48.639
back with you know everything, we
call it, you get it hurricaned,

221
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you know, turn upside down.
So you know, it was it definitely

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prepared me for, you know,
a life in the military, because you

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know, by the time I,
you know, fast years later, I

224
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met basic training. There's the penises. I knew they would be in here.

225
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Yeah, P and I, No, there's three of them, and

226
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there's there's stuff shooting. Yeah,
I think P and I is the And

227
00:16:14.919 --> 00:16:18.840
then you, uh, you get
corrupted at a certain point by Master Sergeant

228
00:16:18.960 --> 00:16:23.960
Shane Bailey. I love Master and
Shane Bailey corrupted in a good way,

229
00:16:26.159 --> 00:16:30.960
very good corruption. So here's another
mentor or another role model to to to

230
00:16:30.080 --> 00:16:34.240
live up to. And uh.
So I was a freshman at Norwich and

231
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I was like second semester and I
go to my biology class and no one

232
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sat next to this guy. And
he's in BDUs. This is back when

233
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he still wore BDU's right before the
ECUs and stuff like that. And he

234
00:16:45.519 --> 00:16:49.960
had his power tower right you know, long tab Special Forces Ranger Airborne.

235
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And no one else sat next to
him, and I was like, all

236
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right, cool, I'll sit next
to him. And so I sit down

237
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next to him and I look at
him and go special Forces, huh pretty

238
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bad as I didn't know what to
say. You know, I'm like eighteen

239
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nineteen years old. I'm trying to
build report this guy. I have no

240
00:17:04.359 --> 00:17:08.400
idea, but so me and him
end up being he's like my lab partner,

241
00:17:08.559 --> 00:17:12.079
you know, my buddy through biology. I remember we were sitting there.

242
00:17:12.200 --> 00:17:15.920
I was trying to use a scalpel
and he pulls out his gerber right

243
00:17:15.960 --> 00:17:19.279
and he flicked, you know,
flick of the wrist. He starts dissecting

244
00:17:19.279 --> 00:17:22.799
that frog like a like a surgeon. I don't know if he was an

245
00:17:22.799 --> 00:17:29.279
eighteen delta or not but hilarious.
But he's just who he was. Yeah,

246
00:17:29.359 --> 00:17:33.599
And he was in a five to
one for a long time Fifth Group

247
00:17:33.640 --> 00:17:37.880
guy, and then he retired in
two thousand and seven and then went on.

248
00:17:37.960 --> 00:17:42.240
I think he's a he's a game
warning now enjoying like cool, solid,

249
00:17:42.359 --> 00:17:45.400
awesome dude. But every single one
of us that was at Norwich at

250
00:17:45.400 --> 00:17:49.279
that time frame that was exposed to
him, we all ended up becoming Green

251
00:17:49.319 --> 00:17:52.720
Berace in one shape or the other. I think there was a guy I

252
00:17:52.799 --> 00:17:56.759
went to selection with just happenstance ran
into that. I went to Norwich with,

253
00:17:56.799 --> 00:18:00.000
you know, same class here,
found out that there, you know,

254
00:18:00.119 --> 00:18:02.839
and it was it was really funny
because I was just running into guys

255
00:18:03.359 --> 00:18:04.720
from Norwich, and you know,
we all signed up for the same thing.

256
00:18:04.759 --> 00:18:07.000
You know, we wanted to be
like shame man, you know,

257
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like just cool, calm and collective
under an old sarge who knows everything about

258
00:18:14.599 --> 00:18:17.319
everything, right, one of those
kind of guys. Absolutely, yeah,

259
00:18:17.519 --> 00:18:21.680
very like very quiet, you know, e pity me quiet professional this guy

260
00:18:21.839 --> 00:18:25.160
and and so, and you know, coming from Fifth Group, you know

261
00:18:25.200 --> 00:18:29.000
at that time, you know he's
done multiple tours over in Afghanistan and probably

262
00:18:29.079 --> 00:18:32.440
Iraq at the same time. So
it's just he was a real deal and

263
00:18:32.880 --> 00:18:37.119
we were all like, I want
to be you, you know. Okay,

264
00:18:37.160 --> 00:18:40.640
So then then you fucked up and
you went into the civilian life and

265
00:18:41.039 --> 00:18:45.200
came and hung out here in New
York City, uh, living your bohemian

266
00:18:45.240 --> 00:18:48.960
lifestyle. You heard it was all
hookers and blow and you were in.

267
00:18:48.160 --> 00:18:51.759
Yeah, it's like, oh man, I'm in you know, no,

268
00:18:52.960 --> 00:18:55.640
but yeah, that was it.
I I did fuck up, you know,

269
00:18:55.680 --> 00:18:59.680
and I think of like, so
I had some friends much older than

270
00:18:59.680 --> 00:19:02.039
me, you know, I knew
since I was a very young kid.

271
00:19:02.079 --> 00:19:04.039
And they were working in Manhattan.
One was working in finance, the other

272
00:19:04.200 --> 00:19:08.960
was working in tech advertising, tech
type stuff. And they're like, Dave,

273
00:19:10.400 --> 00:19:12.200
what are you doing? Like the
war is going to be over by

274
00:19:12.240 --> 00:19:15.559
the time you get over there,
right, They like, just come to

275
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New York make some money. And
I was like all right, And like

276
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I was coming down here to visit
them, and I was like, all

277
00:19:21.319 --> 00:19:23.920
right, this is cool, you
know, going down drinking and uh,

278
00:19:25.160 --> 00:19:29.039
you know East Village all that stuff, like even when I was in college,

279
00:19:29.079 --> 00:19:30.400
coming down there and visit them.
So I was like, all right,

280
00:19:30.480 --> 00:19:34.559
maybe I'll try it so my friend
he got me a job at an

281
00:19:34.559 --> 00:19:38.359
advertising agency, night agency, and
I was working on I was a project

282
00:19:38.359 --> 00:19:45.920
manager and I was working on like
Stay Later nine West Mark Girl makeup,

283
00:19:45.200 --> 00:19:49.960
like you know what I mean.
I'm doing like the stuff that changes,

284
00:19:51.400 --> 00:19:55.480
stuff that changes lives. And I'm
like, you come from doing hard stuff

285
00:19:55.480 --> 00:19:57.240
in Norwich hard, you know,
hard stuff in high school, all that

286
00:19:57.279 --> 00:20:03.119
stuff to this right, and I
think, like the Facebook was starting to

287
00:20:03.119 --> 00:20:06.039
become a thing then. And so
around that time, I was working for

288
00:20:06.079 --> 00:20:10.279
about a year year and a half, and all my buddies were graduating eye

289
00:20:10.559 --> 00:20:15.039
Infantry Officer basic course, graduating range
of school and taking platoons and going to

290
00:20:15.039 --> 00:20:19.000
Iraq and Afghanistan. And I'm like, I'm doing makeup and women's shoes,

291
00:20:19.119 --> 00:20:23.160
like you know what I mean.
And it was a good job, I

292
00:20:23.200 --> 00:20:26.720
can't knock it, but it wasn't
true to who I was. And you

293
00:20:26.759 --> 00:20:30.200
know where I realized that was.
I went down to ground zero. I

294
00:20:30.279 --> 00:20:33.039
wasn't too far from ground zero from
where my office was, but I went

295
00:20:33.079 --> 00:20:36.880
down there and it was still two
giant holes in the ground and they had

296
00:20:36.880 --> 00:20:40.480
the they had the chain link fence
around the tarp around it and you can

297
00:20:40.559 --> 00:20:42.839
kind of peering there and pulling it
up, but the whole sight of the

298
00:20:42.880 --> 00:20:47.359
whole thing I started. I just
broke down, broke down, and I

299
00:20:47.359 --> 00:20:49.920
had a friend she was like,
are you okay, Pat, you know,

300
00:20:51.160 --> 00:20:53.559
and and me like, you know, trying not to cry and everything

301
00:20:53.559 --> 00:20:56.680
and doing like you know, was
quintessential masculine moves, you know, which

302
00:20:56.720 --> 00:21:00.319
we'll get into later, you know, as we talk about this book and

303
00:21:00.319 --> 00:21:03.799
everything. But I went home that
night and I looked at myself in the

304
00:21:03.799 --> 00:21:07.920
mirror, and I was like,
what the fuck are we doing here,

305
00:21:07.000 --> 00:21:10.519
dude? What do we do?
This isn't true to who we are,

306
00:21:11.279 --> 00:21:15.599
Like you're you're a fucking fielding man, you know, think about your grandfather,

307
00:21:15.799 --> 00:21:21.480
right, And and I remember I
bought Chosen Soldier by Dick Couch and

308
00:21:21.559 --> 00:21:26.759
Masters a Chaos by Linda Robinson,
and I was like all right. And

309
00:21:26.799 --> 00:21:29.480
then that's how I found out about
the eighteen X ray program. I was

310
00:21:29.519 --> 00:21:30.920
like, all right, fuck this, I'm doing it. And then I

311
00:21:30.960 --> 00:21:36.359
quit my job. I started pting
a lot, doing you know, rocking.

312
00:21:36.559 --> 00:21:40.200
But you know, I went down
to the recruitment office and I said,

313
00:21:40.640 --> 00:21:42.680
give me a fucking eighteen X ray
contract. I will not take anything

314
00:21:42.680 --> 00:21:48.079
else. Like I was like,
okay, cool right here. Yeah,

315
00:21:48.119 --> 00:21:49.440
you know, whereas like people going
there like I don't know what I'm doing

316
00:21:49.440 --> 00:21:52.119
in my life, Like you know, I was at that point. I

317
00:21:52.160 --> 00:21:56.119
was twenty four years old, you
know, a lot older being eighteen an

318
00:21:56.119 --> 00:21:59.000
old man. Yeah, yeah,
totally, and I was like, no,

319
00:21:59.160 --> 00:22:00.799
this is what I wanted do,
Like, this is where I know

320
00:22:00.880 --> 00:22:04.839
I belong. So for the folks
out there who don't know, the eighteen

321
00:22:04.960 --> 00:22:10.759
X ray program is, you know, like the RASP program or the I

322
00:22:10.759 --> 00:22:12.599
can't remember the name of the contract, but anyway, what it allows is

323
00:22:12.640 --> 00:22:15.599
for recruits to go to the Army
sign a contract and it puts you into

324
00:22:15.599 --> 00:22:18.799
the Special Forces pipeline and if you
pass all the training, you go right

325
00:22:18.839 --> 00:22:23.799
into Special Forces. So you go
to Infantry Basic Training, Airborne School,

326
00:22:25.039 --> 00:22:30.000
the beloved SOPSY course to prepare you
for SFAs, and then to Special Forces

327
00:22:30.039 --> 00:22:33.000
selection. Well, now you're in
the military. I mean, what's it

328
00:22:33.079 --> 00:22:34.000
like for you? I mean,
did you enjoy it? Was it what

329
00:22:34.039 --> 00:22:38.960
you wanted it to be? Definitely
was. Yeah. It was the thing

330
00:22:38.960 --> 00:22:42.359
that blew my mind is that I
came from working eighty one hundred hour weeks.

331
00:22:42.920 --> 00:22:45.400
And granted, we're you know,
in training a lot, and you

332
00:22:45.440 --> 00:22:48.079
know it's a grind, but I
was like, oh crap, I get

333
00:22:48.119 --> 00:22:52.160
weekends off, not answering emails.
I don't have clients bother me. I

334
00:22:52.200 --> 00:22:55.319
don't, you know. And it's
like you're cut loose on Friday, you

335
00:22:55.359 --> 00:22:57.440
know, after training, you know, if you're not like in a small

336
00:22:57.559 --> 00:23:02.000
unit tactics or see your school or
any of that. But like you're free

337
00:23:02.039 --> 00:23:03.240
to your own advices. And I
was like, oh wow, this is

338
00:23:03.279 --> 00:23:07.039
great. And so for me it
was. I mean, granted, there

339
00:23:07.039 --> 00:23:10.960
was a lot of a lot of
fun, fun, interesting things that happened,

340
00:23:10.960 --> 00:23:14.559
you know, it was, you
know, like the stuff I did

341
00:23:14.640 --> 00:23:17.599
at Norwich, you know when they
were cadet, you know, cadets messing

342
00:23:17.640 --> 00:23:22.359
with you as a recruit at Norwich
completely fails in comparison to what Special Forces

343
00:23:22.480 --> 00:23:26.559
is like. But what year did
you go to SAPSEA and selection twenty ten?

344
00:23:27.079 --> 00:23:33.160
Okay? And I think I was
in this October class of twenty ten,

345
00:23:33.599 --> 00:23:37.599
which was great because it wasn't too
hot, it wasn't too cold,

346
00:23:37.160 --> 00:23:41.200
but I still had a cross scuba
road quite a bit turned the land a

347
00:23:41.640 --> 00:23:48.599
star course, but I think probably, you know, come to think of

348
00:23:48.640 --> 00:23:55.920
it, a lot of the we
were messed with so much as X rays

349
00:23:56.680 --> 00:24:00.440
that when the Act of duty guys
that got selected showed up to training,

350
00:24:00.839 --> 00:24:03.680
you know, they were expecting more
of a like a regular army experience,

351
00:24:03.720 --> 00:24:07.039
like they're gonna show up, they
give them their hours and and et cetera.

352
00:24:07.319 --> 00:24:11.599
No gang, this is Special Forces. And I remember one of my

353
00:24:11.680 --> 00:24:15.400
favorite moments in the Q course was
you go to something called Common Leader Training,

354
00:24:15.839 --> 00:24:22.880
which was like back back in the
day, it was like uh e

355
00:24:23.000 --> 00:24:30.559
five course. It became the Warrior
Leaders Course course, and then Advanced Leaders

356
00:24:30.599 --> 00:24:33.000
course and then who knows, they
probably the alphabet soup of acronyms, but

357
00:24:33.720 --> 00:24:38.200
yeah, and so it was I
remember we were at that that w l

358
00:24:38.279 --> 00:24:41.799
C a l C mix they call
c LT, and really in reality it

359
00:24:41.880 --> 00:24:47.480
was Selection Part two. And and
this time we had active duty guys with

360
00:24:47.559 --> 00:24:48.759
us, you know, because mostly
it was just all of our X ray

361
00:24:48.759 --> 00:24:51.880
buddies. We were all together,
and you know, a couple of active

362
00:24:51.920 --> 00:24:55.599
duty guys that were with us,
and and they had no idea what they

363
00:24:55.599 --> 00:24:56.599
were in for, you know,
So we show up to Camp McCall,

364
00:24:57.039 --> 00:25:00.960
you know, we do a layout
on in the airfield and then we do

365
00:25:02.000 --> 00:25:07.640
what is called the trail tears,
and yeah, you're walking with all your

366
00:25:07.640 --> 00:25:10.799
ship and the active duty guys are
going there's no way they can do this,

367
00:25:11.240 --> 00:25:12.880
and like we're all like, oh
but wait, it's gonna get worse.

368
00:25:14.039 --> 00:25:17.240
Guice, you don't know. And
then I remember a good buddy of

369
00:25:17.279 --> 00:25:19.039
mine, nor friend, he was
ahead of me in the Q course,

370
00:25:19.079 --> 00:25:25.839
Frank Armison. He saw me doing
the Burpie mile around the call with our

371
00:25:25.880 --> 00:25:27.880
gear right, and so we were
like, you had to throw your gear,

372
00:25:29.039 --> 00:25:32.240
do a burpie long jump, pick
up your gear, throw your gearn

373
00:25:32.359 --> 00:25:37.519
a burpee pump jump. And it
was really funny at the at the end

374
00:25:37.559 --> 00:25:41.440
of that, Eli Monroe, he
was a third group team sergeant, great

375
00:25:41.440 --> 00:25:45.000
fucking dude, right, Southern gentleman
too, you know, thick draw and

376
00:25:45.240 --> 00:25:48.759
thick cent, our ass accent.
He pulled us in. He's like,

377
00:25:49.039 --> 00:25:52.680
oh, y'all think this is over. I was like, we have a

378
00:25:52.720 --> 00:25:59.559
swamp rock tonight, gentlemen. And
I'm like and it reminded me when I

379
00:25:59.599 --> 00:26:02.559
was a kid, and you know, being in boy Scouts and doing hard

380
00:26:02.599 --> 00:26:04.480
things. When the going got tough, I just doubled down and with a

381
00:26:04.480 --> 00:26:07.039
big old shitty ing grin on my
face, right, And so I was

382
00:26:07.079 --> 00:26:10.079
like, all right, sweet,
I'm gonna survive this, you know.

383
00:26:10.119 --> 00:26:12.039
And that was like kind of the
eternal dialogue I had in myself. So

384
00:26:12.599 --> 00:26:15.319
all the active duty guys are going, no way, they can't do that.

385
00:26:15.400 --> 00:26:21.079
There's so many there's only so many
hours in the day they can fuck

386
00:26:21.160 --> 00:26:22.480
with us. There's no way they
have to give us sleep, blah blah

387
00:26:22.519 --> 00:26:26.440
blah. And I'm just kind of
sitting there like, Okay, denial is

388
00:26:26.440 --> 00:26:30.680
a hell of a drug. Yeah, exactly, all right, you stick

389
00:26:30.720 --> 00:26:34.000
with that. And so we're in
these like shitty trailers they have us in.

390
00:26:34.160 --> 00:26:37.240
It's just like assholes and elbows in
there, right, and you got

391
00:26:37.279 --> 00:26:41.680
two bunks wallwock or everything, right. I remember I went back. I

392
00:26:41.799 --> 00:26:45.160
like stracked my rock man, you
know, had forty five dry in it,

393
00:26:45.599 --> 00:26:49.200
water tight, you know, or
as best waterproof as possible, and

394
00:26:49.279 --> 00:26:56.119
no shit. Like around twelve,
right after midnight, Eli Monroe kicks in

395
00:26:56.160 --> 00:27:02.160
the back door of this trailer and
he's dreaming, this is fucking happening.

396
00:27:03.079 --> 00:27:07.319
It's fucking happen. And I remember
he pointed at me because I had I

397
00:27:07.359 --> 00:27:10.559
was just laughing, right, and
he's like, what the fuck are you

398
00:27:10.680 --> 00:27:14.319
laughing at? And he's like kicking
kids bunks right, and he's like get

399
00:27:14.359 --> 00:27:18.119
it. Fifteen minutes outside forty five
dry and the active duty kids that weren't

400
00:27:18.160 --> 00:27:21.160
prepared, they were like fuck fuck
fuck right, And I just jumped up,

401
00:27:21.359 --> 00:27:22.759
threw my stuff on, put my
rock, you know, check out

402
00:27:22.759 --> 00:27:25.960
my other buddies. It's like,
you're good, good to good, all

403
00:27:26.039 --> 00:27:30.079
right, cool, And we were
outside and uh and it was we lost

404
00:27:30.079 --> 00:27:36.279
a lot of dudes. Yeah,
we lost a lot of dudes that night,

405
00:27:36.319 --> 00:27:38.920
I'll say that. And it was
just so funny. Before we even

406
00:27:38.960 --> 00:27:41.599
started the ruck, they took us
a little pond and it was like they

407
00:27:41.599 --> 00:27:45.599
were all baped. They would check
our rock first for weight, and then

408
00:27:45.599 --> 00:27:48.480
they would daptize us in the pond
and then we'd be we'd started the ruck

409
00:27:48.559 --> 00:27:53.519
soaking what And you just can't help
but laugh of how bad the situation is.

410
00:27:53.599 --> 00:27:56.240
Yeah, you're just like the only
way out, the only way out

411
00:27:56.279 --> 00:28:00.799
is through many and that is probably
one, you know, one of my

412
00:28:00.880 --> 00:28:06.599
core memories from the Q course.
And you uh were the honor grad from

413
00:28:06.599 --> 00:28:11.480
the eighteen ECHO course the Special Forces
Communications sergeant training, tell us about,

414
00:28:11.599 --> 00:28:18.319
you know, you get assigned to
first Group ODAE. Tell us about your

415
00:28:18.359 --> 00:28:21.799
first real Special Forces experience, showing
up on your team, meeting your team

416
00:28:21.839 --> 00:28:26.480
sergeant. So I didn't even my
first experience. I was still at BRAG

417
00:28:26.160 --> 00:28:30.480
at the time, and it was
I want to say, September fifth,

418
00:28:30.960 --> 00:28:36.920
September fifth, twenty twelve, and
I'm just sitting waiting around for orders,

419
00:28:37.319 --> 00:28:40.319
right or I had my orders to
go to Oke. But you know,

420
00:28:40.359 --> 00:28:45.440
when you go outside the US,
there's all these wickets, you have to

421
00:28:45.440 --> 00:28:48.640
meet, paperwork, you're you know, bureaucracy wise, right, So I

422
00:28:48.680 --> 00:28:51.240
was like doing all that to try
to get out, get out there.

423
00:28:52.000 --> 00:28:56.440
I have an email from the ODA
eleven eleven team sergeant and he says,

424
00:28:56.640 --> 00:29:03.119
hey, we just lost a dude, Kia September first. You're coming this

425
00:29:03.240 --> 00:29:06.440
team, you better be fucking ready, dude. Right, Well, he

426
00:29:06.440 --> 00:29:08.279
didn't say dude, that's a very
bostome thing, but like, you know,

427
00:29:08.799 --> 00:29:12.680
and I remember I was sitting in
I was sitting in the barracks and

428
00:29:12.720 --> 00:29:15.039
I got that email and I was
like, oh god, I went out

429
00:29:15.079 --> 00:29:18.240
and I ran five miles. I
ran down our dents. You know.

430
00:29:18.240 --> 00:29:19.839
It was about like two and a
half out two and a half back,

431
00:29:21.119 --> 00:29:22.759
and I like ran my ass off, right, you know, I was

432
00:29:22.799 --> 00:29:29.119
like, holy shit, and you
know the gentleman was Staff Star Jeremy Border

433
00:29:29.759 --> 00:29:34.680
and I had no idea but the
oda that I was going to just got

434
00:29:34.720 --> 00:29:38.960
off the commando mission in Afghanistan.
And so for I'm sure you guys had

435
00:29:40.160 --> 00:29:42.759
had people on here and for the
audience, is that doing the commando mission

436
00:29:42.799 --> 00:29:47.200
in Afghanistan? That was some real
shit. You know, you were you

437
00:29:47.240 --> 00:29:51.160
were on four or five you know, four day off cycles. You're going

438
00:29:51.200 --> 00:29:56.240
out doing a raid, resetting,
getting reinserted, doing another raid, you

439
00:29:56.279 --> 00:29:59.880
know, doing s s all that
other stuff, right, and just stops,

440
00:30:00.119 --> 00:30:02.640
you know, ops keep on rolling. They did that for six months,

441
00:30:03.160 --> 00:30:08.039
and Jeremy was the heart of the
team. He really was the heart

442
00:30:08.079 --> 00:30:15.400
of team. He was the eighteen
Bravo. But really he was the kind

443
00:30:15.400 --> 00:30:21.279
of you know, the shadow government
of the team. Not that he was

444
00:30:22.160 --> 00:30:25.680
he was. Yeah, you know, all the guys listening and respected him,

445
00:30:25.920 --> 00:30:29.559
and it's it's really it's really amazing
because you know, you think like

446
00:30:29.640 --> 00:30:30.759
rank has anything to do with it, you know, him being a staff

447
00:30:30.759 --> 00:30:34.240
sergeant, but no, he was
just a very competent warrior, very competent

448
00:30:34.319 --> 00:30:38.000
his craft, you know in terms
of you know, leading that team from

449
00:30:38.200 --> 00:30:41.839
the you know, being the eighteen
Bravo weapons and tactics, dodent, the

450
00:30:41.839 --> 00:30:45.440
commit you know, direct action raids, you know. So it's uh,

451
00:30:47.039 --> 00:30:48.960
you know, he was a driving
force of the team. And so I

452
00:30:48.960 --> 00:30:52.240
showed up to the ODA, and
I showed up to the first battalion with

453
00:30:52.359 --> 00:31:00.000
like there was like fifteen of us
bucks Sergeant Cherry eighteen x ray. It's

454
00:31:00.079 --> 00:31:04.319
just the you know, lower than
ponds come right, and you know,

455
00:31:04.440 --> 00:31:07.880
you just got to keep your mouth
shut and just pray to you know,

456
00:31:07.960 --> 00:31:10.400
be good at your job. And
that's it, right, You're there to

457
00:31:10.480 --> 00:31:15.720
learn. And so the Q course
is humbling enough as it is. Going

458
00:31:15.759 --> 00:31:22.400
to a team is even more humbling
because now I'm with warriors, not just

459
00:31:22.480 --> 00:31:27.440
warriors you know that are far removed
guys that are hot out of theater right

460
00:31:27.799 --> 00:31:33.079
still dealing with the loss of a
great friend loss. And and it was

461
00:31:33.319 --> 00:31:37.920
you know for us, luckily,
you know, they all understand we were

462
00:31:37.960 --> 00:31:40.920
new guys, and so you know, they took us all under our wing.

463
00:31:41.000 --> 00:31:45.079
But you know, for the most
part, like a few months after

464
00:31:45.119 --> 00:31:47.880
that what. We lost a lot
of senior guys and then you know it

465
00:31:47.960 --> 00:31:49.519
was up to us, you know, all the new guys on the team.

466
00:31:49.519 --> 00:31:55.240
But I had I like to eate
equate my leadership at the time to

467
00:31:55.279 --> 00:31:59.599
the Big Three and the Celtics you
know ray L and KG and Paul Pierce

468
00:31:59.680 --> 00:32:01.400
like that in the day, you
know, so you know throw you know,

469
00:32:01.960 --> 00:32:05.960
the Boston roots thing. But you
know, our warrant, our team

470
00:32:06.000 --> 00:32:08.680
leader and our team sergeant were fucking
awesome dudes at that time, and they

471
00:32:08.759 --> 00:32:12.680
understood. They were like and they
were all, you know, multiple combat

472
00:32:12.720 --> 00:32:15.920
deployments. They knew what we needed
to do to be great. And the

473
00:32:15.960 --> 00:32:20.359
good thing about where we were at
is that we didn't have any bad habits.

474
00:32:20.839 --> 00:32:23.000
You know, it was only up
from there and and so it you

475
00:32:23.000 --> 00:32:30.119
know, we had a you know, growing into this role and and watching

476
00:32:30.160 --> 00:32:36.640
me go from new guy to senior
guy. Because I remember the first as

477
00:32:36.640 --> 00:32:38.079
soon as I showed up, I
was like slated to go to training.

478
00:32:38.359 --> 00:32:44.440
They sent me to a sawt and
I was like, huh and that was

479
00:32:44.440 --> 00:32:46.279
a that was a kick in the
nuts. Do you want to do you

480
00:32:46.319 --> 00:32:51.480
want to tell people what a saw
is? Uh, it's uh, a

481
00:32:51.640 --> 00:32:57.759
saw. It is like basically advanced
WRECKI course, it's an advanced reconnaissance course,

482
00:32:58.039 --> 00:33:00.559
right, teaches you a lot of
exposes you to a lot of tools

483
00:33:00.559 --> 00:33:04.240
of the trade. You know,
how do you get cold target reconnaissance?

484
00:33:05.240 --> 00:33:07.559
You know through you know, different
means, and so you do a lot

485
00:33:07.559 --> 00:33:14.799
of like urban hindsight, urban hindsights, you know, moving you know,

486
00:33:14.839 --> 00:33:19.920
moving in an urban environment, blending
in. So it was a very cool

487
00:33:20.000 --> 00:33:25.160
course for me to get exposed to
early on. But uh, it was

488
00:33:25.599 --> 00:33:31.200
very neat because then I remember we
go to Talisman Saber and we were the

489
00:33:31.240 --> 00:33:37.640
pilot team. So Talisman Saber is
a big exercise that happens in Australia every

490
00:33:37.720 --> 00:33:40.599
year, and we was for us. It was an unconventional warfare exercise and

491
00:33:40.680 --> 00:33:44.880
my team was tasked to be the
pilot team. So we had to do

492
00:33:44.920 --> 00:33:50.519
split team offs and then we would
infill and for us, we were infilling

493
00:33:50.519 --> 00:33:52.079
the outback. But this is what
I love about this. The story is

494
00:33:52.079 --> 00:33:57.559
that we're sitting in the team room
and guys were talking about punting koalas right,

495
00:33:58.240 --> 00:34:00.960
and my team, you know,
my grizzled teams Arge and Russ Banister,

496
00:34:00.079 --> 00:34:04.839
he turns around and he's like he's
like, oh yeah, He's like,

497
00:34:04.920 --> 00:34:12.159
you know what that Kuala has focus
and determination, right, and it's

498
00:34:12.239 --> 00:34:15.000
like he wasn't fucking kidding, right, and you want to talk like so

499
00:34:15.079 --> 00:34:17.599
we in Phil, we you know, we do our job. We get

500
00:34:17.599 --> 00:34:21.840
the follow on Oda's and and you
know we're all high five and on the

501
00:34:22.000 --> 00:34:24.719
X split team ops and you know
we're X fillin. Our half of the

502
00:34:24.719 --> 00:34:30.480
team's X Villain and and russes with
me and the warrant our warrant officer Cliff

503
00:34:30.679 --> 00:34:35.639
right and and I guess we were
kind of the more chill half of the

504
00:34:35.679 --> 00:34:37.079
team, you know, because they
were the old timers, whereas the other

505
00:34:37.119 --> 00:34:39.480
half of the team had the team
leader, and you know he was a

506
00:34:39.480 --> 00:34:45.320
hard charger, right, So you
know, but we're X Villain. And

507
00:34:45.440 --> 00:34:47.760
I remember the eighteen Bravo he's coming
up on the on a creek. Oh

508
00:34:47.760 --> 00:34:52.880
wait, I got a caveat this
we before we even started the exercise,

509
00:34:52.239 --> 00:34:58.760
the sas, the Australian Sas,
they give us a brief and they're going

510
00:34:58.800 --> 00:35:02.159
through all the floor and fun right
because everything is poisonous there, Everything is

511
00:35:02.199 --> 00:35:06.920
poisonous. For these are the plants
that can kill you. The faun is

512
00:35:06.960 --> 00:35:10.679
that these are all the animals,
right, And Russ is sitting in front

513
00:35:10.719 --> 00:35:14.480
of us, and we're kind of
all like sitting back and like this essays.

514
00:35:14.599 --> 00:35:16.159
Guy is like, yeah, you
don't want to get bit by this

515
00:35:16.199 --> 00:35:21.679
bugger. You're fucked right. And
and here was the thing. Most of

516
00:35:21.719 --> 00:35:23.760
the stuff would kill you in fifteen
minutes and mat of fact was forty five

517
00:35:23.760 --> 00:35:28.519
minutes out. Yeah, So like
it was like the real thing was don't

518
00:35:28.559 --> 00:35:31.079
get bit, right or don't get
hurt. And I remember he pulls up

519
00:35:31.119 --> 00:35:36.440
this slide and it was this monstrosity
and he's like, this is the bird

520
00:35:36.480 --> 00:35:38.400
eating spider. And Russ he turns
around, looks at us, he goes,

521
00:35:38.719 --> 00:35:46.440
motherfucker, is I told you bird
eating spider? And I remember,

522
00:35:47.519 --> 00:35:52.119
you know, we're X fillin and
we we were on foot and we had

523
00:35:52.119 --> 00:35:55.039
to like meet make our link up
point to get picked up and you know,

524
00:35:55.239 --> 00:36:01.000
end of exercise or whatever, and
we're Russ's thing was like, we're

525
00:36:01.000 --> 00:36:06.079
not getting wet whatever we do,
right, And you know this was his

526
00:36:06.199 --> 00:36:08.159
like last year on a team,
you know, right, and you know

527
00:36:08.440 --> 00:36:17.559
salty yeah, yeah, retirement type
of ship. So it's just like you

528
00:36:17.559 --> 00:36:21.400
know, we're all like yeah,
like yes, russ Ussan. That was

529
00:36:21.440 --> 00:36:24.480
our nickname from Russ Sussan, right, And and so we're going through this

530
00:36:24.559 --> 00:36:30.679
dry river bed and we're trying to
find it like good pot part to jump

531
00:36:30.719 --> 00:36:36.000
across, and and no ship like
the SAS is like there's no crocs that

532
00:36:36.079 --> 00:36:42.559
far inland and now back where we
were, okay, all right, dude,

533
00:36:42.679 --> 00:36:45.960
Yeah I took that word too strongly. But I'm in the back,

534
00:36:45.960 --> 00:36:50.320
I'm rear security, and we're in
a file. We find this like perfectly

535
00:36:50.360 --> 00:36:53.599
opportune spot to jump across. Well, just so happens that the entirety of

536
00:36:53.719 --> 00:37:00.440
nature is also crossing that spot,
so it attracts and predators yea, and

537
00:37:00.480 --> 00:37:02.320
no shit, Like you know,
it's at night time and I got my

538
00:37:02.400 --> 00:37:06.559
nods on and like I see this
thing like straight out of National Geographic like

539
00:37:06.679 --> 00:37:10.559
just start coming like here's us rustle
and the leaves and it comes up and

540
00:37:10.599 --> 00:37:15.519
it was like a leather bag floating
coming up. And the point man is

541
00:37:15.840 --> 00:37:20.320
Greg and I'm like Greg crok and
he turns around he goes what I'm like,

542
00:37:20.519 --> 00:37:22.000
crook fucking crock it out. And
before I knew it. He was

543
00:37:22.039 --> 00:37:25.440
behind me. And then Russ is
like, let's get the fuck out of

544
00:37:25.440 --> 00:37:30.000
here, right, we ran and
just a bunch of city slickers, dude,

545
00:37:30.400 --> 00:37:34.119
like you know, and we didn't
you know, we didn't have any

546
00:37:34.599 --> 00:37:37.760
We didn't even have sim rounds.
You know. We're busting through the outback

547
00:37:37.800 --> 00:37:40.480
with like you know, wild boar, crocodiles, yeah, and goddamn bird

548
00:37:40.480 --> 00:37:45.880
eating spiders which deserve to be shot
on site, you know, like and

549
00:37:45.159 --> 00:37:50.679
with nothing. And I remember me
and the senior Charlie, we take point

550
00:37:51.320 --> 00:37:52.599
and we're coming up on you know, we move around, get up,

551
00:37:52.599 --> 00:37:57.639
we're going through some brush getting out
of there, and uh some pheasants just

552
00:37:57.719 --> 00:38:01.920
like get startled and go and see
Charlie falls ass over tea kettle on me

553
00:38:02.320 --> 00:38:05.519
and everyone in the back is like
what the fuck was that? Right,

554
00:38:05.559 --> 00:38:07.960
and we're just super spooked and like
it was just so damn funny man,

555
00:38:08.400 --> 00:38:13.800
you know, and and just ship
like that like you can't, you know,

556
00:38:14.000 --> 00:38:15.840
you really can't make up, and
like I love I love ship like

557
00:38:15.880 --> 00:38:19.559
that on an od a man,
Like you know, it's you're all just

558
00:38:19.559 --> 00:38:22.320
going through that. It doesn't matter
how, you know, how grizz how

559
00:38:22.360 --> 00:38:23.679
much of a grizzle combat veteran you
are. Yeah, you know, we

560
00:38:23.760 --> 00:38:27.679
all have our limitations, you know. And it's like it's not even that,

561
00:38:27.719 --> 00:38:30.400
it's just like anything in that in
that in that bush could kill you.

562
00:38:30.519 --> 00:38:35.159
Yeah. Yeah, So let's let's
talk about oe F P. And

563
00:38:35.239 --> 00:38:37.639
as I'm reading this, you know
Danny Pomona, Yes, I know,

564
00:38:37.760 --> 00:38:40.159
dude, he's a good guy,
very good. Yeah. I've hung out

565
00:38:40.199 --> 00:38:45.119
with him out at uh uh can't
make say say, uh huh yeah Fort

566
00:38:45.159 --> 00:38:50.199
MC's I SI man. Yeah,
that's the heart of Filipino Special Forces.

567
00:38:50.280 --> 00:38:53.719
Yeah, it's like it's like their
equivalent Fort Bragg or quote unquote Fort Liberty.

568
00:38:53.880 --> 00:38:58.039
Yeah, he's a nice guy.
I owe him a Starbucks frappuccino.

569
00:38:58.199 --> 00:39:01.519
He will probably hold me to that
the next time I see him. At

570
00:39:01.519 --> 00:39:06.199
the time when I knew him,
he was a colonel and then he I

571
00:39:06.199 --> 00:39:09.760
think he retired as a three star
Yeah, in General solcom Commander in twenty

572
00:39:09.880 --> 00:39:17.400
nineteen. And so for the audience, Danny Pomonig is basically a legend in

573
00:39:17.440 --> 00:39:23.039
the Filipino Special Forces community. He
is known as the hero Zamba Wanga so

574
00:39:23.119 --> 00:39:29.280
in Zambawanga. At the time,
he was a colonel of their Tier one

575
00:39:29.400 --> 00:39:35.719
unit and he basically there was three
hundred Abusai F fighters. It was a

576
00:39:35.760 --> 00:39:39.000
mix. You know, in the
Philippines you have all these different terrorist groups,

577
00:39:39.039 --> 00:39:46.400
these offshoots, but this one they
assaulted and sieged the city of Zambawanga,

578
00:39:46.519 --> 00:39:51.400
these three hundred fighters, and they
just spread out and they were killing

579
00:39:51.440 --> 00:39:55.760
people, burning shit down, terrorizing
everything, trying to kill armed forces of

580
00:39:55.800 --> 00:40:01.079
Philippine soldiers, et cetera. Right, and him and his him and his

581
00:40:01.159 --> 00:40:08.800
crew. They fought for several several
days, and I remember one of the

582
00:40:08.800 --> 00:40:13.159
biggest things he said to I think
it was President Aquino at the time,

583
00:40:13.320 --> 00:40:17.599
it was the President of the Philippines, and he said that all I He's

584
00:40:17.639 --> 00:40:21.639
like, they've been fighting for days
at this point, fighting like dogs.

585
00:40:21.639 --> 00:40:24.400
And there was Odia's there was you
know, oh YFP was there supporting them.

586
00:40:24.719 --> 00:40:29.079
And in ways that they you know, they could with IR et cetera.

587
00:40:29.239 --> 00:40:31.320
You know, we're in the Philippines, were very limited and you know,

588
00:40:31.519 --> 00:40:34.679
they didn't want us going out and
getting in gun fights, even though

589
00:40:34.719 --> 00:40:39.639
we could definitely make a difference.
But at that time, so he he

590
00:40:39.719 --> 00:40:45.719
said to President Keno, he goes, Sir my men just need a couple

591
00:40:45.760 --> 00:40:50.480
of hours of sleep and then we'll
be good to go. And literally like

592
00:40:50.559 --> 00:40:54.440
cause they were they were like at
the bargaining table with them almost and it

593
00:40:54.519 --> 00:40:59.119
was like, no, we're going
to continue mission. And that's like one

594
00:40:59.159 --> 00:41:02.719
of the things I love about Andy
Pomonaga is atte he's I mean, like

595
00:41:02.880 --> 00:41:07.679
us, understands that the mission is
the most important thing. Even when odds

596
00:41:07.679 --> 00:41:12.199
are against you, it doesn't matter. And so they pushed through. They

597
00:41:12.280 --> 00:41:15.719
end up being victorious. They end
up killing a lot of those you know

598
00:41:15.920 --> 00:41:22.679
guys. So did you ever meet
White Reaction commander named Ted. Probably.

599
00:41:22.960 --> 00:41:27.559
Ted's a really cool guy and were
some of his Actually Ted was very reserved

600
00:41:27.559 --> 00:41:30.760
when I spoke to him about what
he did. But some of his lieutenants

601
00:41:30.800 --> 00:41:34.559
told me they were lieutenants at the
time, tell me stories about Ted taking

602
00:41:34.599 --> 00:41:42.000
them into Zambo and like we're gonna
put our talk right there in that abandoned

603
00:41:42.039 --> 00:41:44.400
schoolhouse, like right in the middle
of the battle, and like they go

604
00:41:44.480 --> 00:41:46.480
up there, take it by force. He sets up the field headquarters there

605
00:41:46.800 --> 00:41:51.800
and they fought for like days out
of that place. Hardcore guys. So

606
00:41:51.960 --> 00:41:57.800
one of his lieutenants I worked extensively
with on that deployment was Lieutenant Salazar and

607
00:41:57.880 --> 00:42:04.360
I probably you probably know that name. Yeah yeah, and uh great dude,

608
00:42:04.519 --> 00:42:07.800
you know, great dude, but
really good. Yeah yeah, and

609
00:42:07.800 --> 00:42:09.519
and and you know here, you
know, it's funny because like OEFP,

610
00:42:10.800 --> 00:42:15.239
you know, we're I don't have
Afghanistana, I have Iraq. This is

611
00:42:15.280 --> 00:42:20.679
like my first quote unquote combats apployment, right, and and so there's a

612
00:42:20.719 --> 00:42:23.679
lot of you know, you're not
that confident, right, you just don't

613
00:42:23.719 --> 00:42:27.039
you know, you're you're insecure,
right, You're like here on the sure

614
00:42:27.159 --> 00:42:30.800
And I was the guy. I
was on this counter terrorism Liaison Coordination element,

615
00:42:30.880 --> 00:42:34.599
so I was doing the combat ops. Everybody was. It was like

616
00:42:34.679 --> 00:42:37.840
for the rest of the company,
it was like an extended training, right,

617
00:42:38.039 --> 00:42:42.800
you know, extended training working with
the hosts, advising, assisting,

618
00:42:42.880 --> 00:42:45.840
and so you know, me,
we're going after Marwan. We're going you

619
00:42:45.880 --> 00:42:47.320
know, the first off I did, we were going after PASSI Usman.

620
00:42:47.800 --> 00:42:53.400
They deployed me early from OK two
weeks early, so I could we could

621
00:42:53.400 --> 00:42:57.159
do the handover with the ODEA that
was there. But also you know,

622
00:42:57.239 --> 00:43:00.519
I get my chops around me with
you know, working with the host nation

623
00:43:00.639 --> 00:43:01.840
and just be like doing a lot. You know, we're going in,

624
00:43:01.880 --> 00:43:05.960
We're going after Uzmann. Okay,
cool. You know me, I was

625
00:43:05.960 --> 00:43:09.960
a you know, e six at
the time, and I'm like holy shit

626
00:43:10.280 --> 00:43:15.239
and not knowing much. But you
know, it's been most surrounded by about

627
00:43:15.480 --> 00:43:21.639
six hundred mill fighters like like probably
you know, if something goes wrong,

628
00:43:21.840 --> 00:43:23.639
it's gonna be bad. Yeah,
right, type of thing. So that

629
00:43:24.039 --> 00:43:30.320
that deployment was much lower intensity than
you know, what my friends were doing,

630
00:43:30.559 --> 00:43:32.320
you know in fifth Group and third
Group and seventh Group going at rotations

631
00:43:32.320 --> 00:43:37.079
in Afghanistan everything, because I that's
still some hardcore stuff that you know,

632
00:43:37.280 --> 00:43:40.320
even just doing liaison stuff. I
mean, the Marwan thing was a disaster.

633
00:43:42.000 --> 00:43:45.400
It was, and I definitely want
to talk about that later. But

634
00:43:45.559 --> 00:43:49.280
like, you know, one of
the big like the one of the ops

635
00:43:49.360 --> 00:43:52.639
where and this is what I really
like talking about, like what it means

636
00:43:52.679 --> 00:43:58.119
to be a Green Beret, and
especially a first group green Beret is you

637
00:43:58.159 --> 00:44:00.239
know, you're not doing something you're
doing it's by with and through, by

638
00:44:00.320 --> 00:44:05.039
with and through you know, with
host nation, whether it's a gorilla force.

639
00:44:05.119 --> 00:44:07.000
You know, all those things that
we learned Robin stage. They all

640
00:44:07.000 --> 00:44:13.400
apply and so I think of like
I'm sitting there. So we it was

641
00:44:13.960 --> 00:44:17.400
Patty Cool, right, and we
were on Holo and there was two German

642
00:44:17.519 --> 00:44:22.239
kidnap victims among several other kidnap victims. And it was offshoot of ABUSAF group

643
00:44:22.360 --> 00:44:28.119
run by Sawa John and I think
like loosely Sahiron all these names might be

644
00:44:28.199 --> 00:44:31.159
familiar to you, you know type
of thing. And those guys were like

645
00:44:31.239 --> 00:44:39.880
the Hollo Boss, Busy Lawn,
Tawi Tawi offshoot of offshoot of Abusaf group.

646
00:44:39.960 --> 00:44:45.000
And and so they had these kidnap
victims and you know, Danny,

647
00:44:45.159 --> 00:44:51.519
Danny and the boys Ford deployed and
we were me and my eighteen Delta were

648
00:44:51.559 --> 00:44:55.719
waiting on air to get out there. And they ended up they ended up

649
00:44:55.760 --> 00:45:02.159
losing fifteen guys to a friendly FI
And now, yeah, they were about

650
00:45:02.599 --> 00:45:10.119
one kilometer selth offset from the ABUSA
F base and the you know, it

651
00:45:10.239 --> 00:45:14.599
turns out that they weren't they weren't
leveling the bubbles on the one twenties.

652
00:45:15.599 --> 00:45:20.320
You know that the smoke that was
running the pit wasn't level in the bubbles.

653
00:45:20.519 --> 00:45:23.400
You know, I sent the jay
Tack over there, who was There

654
00:45:23.480 --> 00:45:29.119
was also an m saw team that
was working there too, And so we

655
00:45:29.320 --> 00:45:32.719
show up and you want to talk
about some loss of rapport at this point.

656
00:45:32.840 --> 00:45:37.000
Yeah, And I remember me and
him are sitting in this were those

657
00:45:37.000 --> 00:45:40.880
American one twenties or Filipino one twenties, Filipino one twenties. Okay, thank

658
00:45:40.920 --> 00:45:46.159
you for so for For people who
don't know, we talk about the mortar,

659
00:45:46.199 --> 00:45:50.800
the one twenty mortars and and you
know, level in the bubbles is

660
00:45:50.920 --> 00:45:54.199
just like getting them make sure they're
set and centered. Every every single the

661
00:45:54.239 --> 00:45:58.360
bubbles aren't level, the rounds are
going the round, the rounds aren't going

662
00:45:58.639 --> 00:46:00.679
where you think they're going. Yeah, thank you, Yeah, yeah,

663
00:46:00.840 --> 00:46:04.880
I mean but basically that's what it
is. And and they were a k

664
00:46:05.360 --> 00:46:08.480
one kilometer off target. That's pretty
significant massively, and and all it was

665
00:46:08.679 --> 00:46:13.320
was one round. One round came
right into their little talk that they had

666
00:46:13.440 --> 00:46:17.039
that me and the eighteen Delta were
going to afford deploy to right to help

667
00:46:17.119 --> 00:46:22.000
them run their opera, help them
run their raid on the camp. And

668
00:46:22.159 --> 00:46:25.840
so and I just think I remember
looking at eighteen Delta, I was like,

669
00:46:25.840 --> 00:46:29.599
we could have been dead, you
know, and luckily, like air,

670
00:46:30.559 --> 00:46:34.559
you know, like us, they
did at that time. Yeah,

671
00:46:34.679 --> 00:46:38.159
you know so, but you know, here I am. We're down half

672
00:46:38.199 --> 00:46:42.519
a company now half a company of
dudes. And you know, uh,

673
00:46:42.679 --> 00:46:45.440
I think it was ten Moon in
action five K I A. And and

674
00:46:45.639 --> 00:46:51.039
Danny's like, dude, I'm pulling
out. And you know, I had

675
00:46:51.360 --> 00:46:53.239
orders from the task force commander.
He was like, this shit's happening.

676
00:46:53.360 --> 00:46:59.440
Make this happen, right, And
and also he was like, I think

677
00:46:59.480 --> 00:47:01.880
it was Colonel Warman at the time, or it might I forget who it

678
00:47:02.000 --> 00:47:05.719
was, but he was like,
whatever, you need to make this happen.

679
00:47:06.400 --> 00:47:08.159
We got you right type of thing. And it was great because I,

680
00:47:08.280 --> 00:47:12.320
you know, I had leadership,
buying, et cetera. But so

681
00:47:12.480 --> 00:47:17.440
sitting with I'm sitting with Danny.
We're in this open air concrete building in

682
00:47:17.559 --> 00:47:24.239
the jungle drinking I Parador light,
which is the drink of not saying meggs,

683
00:47:24.559 --> 00:47:29.920
not saying MiGs, but Imperador light
is this Filipino brandy is the drink

684
00:47:30.039 --> 00:47:34.800
of course, drink of choice by
the Light Reaction battalions. Right, So

685
00:47:36.760 --> 00:47:38.719
you're drinking it. You know that's
a report there. You got to drink

686
00:47:38.760 --> 00:47:42.840
that. And so you know,
I'm sitting there and we're sipping on We're

687
00:47:42.840 --> 00:47:47.440
sipping on the Imperador light and and
I'm like, so, you know,

688
00:47:47.880 --> 00:47:52.800
tell me what's going on. He's
like, we're pulling out. I'm like,

689
00:47:52.880 --> 00:47:57.840
well, why, you know,
not simply you know, not gonna

690
00:47:57.840 --> 00:47:59.400
just sit there and be like,
okay, cool, all right, we'll

691
00:47:59.440 --> 00:48:01.199
beat you back, mana type of
thing. No, like, you know,

692
00:48:01.760 --> 00:48:07.599
make this happen, man, you
know, make mission. And he

693
00:48:07.719 --> 00:48:10.960
goes to me, and he like
leans in and he's like, I can't

694
00:48:12.039 --> 00:48:19.519
stand to tell another mother and father
that their son is dead. And here

695
00:48:19.599 --> 00:48:25.480
I am Cherry six right, first
apployment, and I'm trying to, you

696
00:48:25.559 --> 00:48:30.440
know, understand this guy, you
know. And and I sit there for

697
00:48:30.480 --> 00:48:36.440
a second and I said, do
you remember what you said to the President

698
00:48:36.440 --> 00:48:39.599
of the Philippines. I just need
my men, just need a few hours

699
00:48:39.639 --> 00:48:43.239
of sleep. And we're getting right
back after it. I was like,

700
00:48:44.760 --> 00:48:49.840
whatever you need, you know,
we're going to support you, Metavac everything

701
00:48:50.679 --> 00:48:53.039
that was. And he's like he's
sitting there, he's thinking about it.

702
00:48:53.960 --> 00:48:59.199
Me and him are going back and
forth, you know. And all I

703
00:48:59.280 --> 00:49:01.400
did was I just reminded of who
he was, and you know, I'm

704
00:49:01.440 --> 00:49:05.000
like you know what, Danny,
we're guys, We're all about the mission.

705
00:49:05.400 --> 00:49:10.239
If we pull out on this mission, those guys died in vain for

706
00:49:10.480 --> 00:49:15.519
nothing, you know, to a
friendly fire incident, and I'm pretty sure

707
00:49:15.239 --> 00:49:21.960
most of your men want to live
up to that. And remember he kind

708
00:49:22.000 --> 00:49:24.719
of like sat there and thinking,
he goes, all right, I need

709
00:49:24.800 --> 00:49:30.559
two more companies. I'm like,
whatever takes, you know, and then

710
00:49:32.599 --> 00:49:37.719
we continued mission, you know,
with it until we couldn't anymore, you

711
00:49:37.840 --> 00:49:42.039
know, But it was really interesting
that, you know, that's appointment for

712
00:49:42.199 --> 00:49:45.800
me was a lot of the human
side of things. And and I think

713
00:49:45.840 --> 00:49:50.239
of like when you're a Green Beret, you're this is a lot of the

714
00:49:50.280 --> 00:49:52.800
stuff that you do, you know, not not You're not always going to

715
00:49:52.800 --> 00:49:57.079
be kicking in the door, you
know. Hey, granted we all set

716
00:49:57.199 --> 00:50:00.360
up to do mac v saug stuff, you know, Jawbreaker, jew yet

717
00:50:00.559 --> 00:50:05.679
all these all these really cool,
you know, storied things of unconventional warfare.

718
00:50:05.800 --> 00:50:08.039
So was this the mass count incident
that you're talking about here, and

719
00:50:08.639 --> 00:50:12.440
you know, the eighteen Delta's got
to go to work on some of these

720
00:50:12.480 --> 00:50:17.840
guys, Yes, And so for
me that was getting a taste of what

721
00:50:19.000 --> 00:50:21.480
it was I signed up to do, yeah, and I would say probably

722
00:50:21.559 --> 00:50:25.480
that afterwards. We're doing you know, we're supporting this up. We're running

723
00:50:25.480 --> 00:50:30.480
into we're running ir every night.
We're trying to we're trying to get some

724
00:50:30.639 --> 00:50:34.360
sort of BdL on you know,
where these kidnap victims are at, so

725
00:50:34.440 --> 00:50:37.519
we can actually do the raid and
it be successful right to a certain extent.

726
00:50:38.119 --> 00:50:42.760
And you know, because we were
estimating it was about sixty to eighty,

727
00:50:43.639 --> 00:50:46.119
I would say, f dudes,
you know in the in this camp.

728
00:50:46.239 --> 00:50:53.519
And so like we ended up.
We had a supporting element Marine Filipino

729
00:50:53.559 --> 00:51:00.599
Marine Corps element that got it was
a complex ambush and they got caught in

730
00:51:00.679 --> 00:51:05.159
one they got caught in. So
I ed plus opening up a whole lot

731
00:51:05.159 --> 00:51:07.000
of five five six on them.
A lot of I would say, off

732
00:51:07.039 --> 00:51:10.039
the carry M sixties. You know, they get their hands on M sixties,

733
00:51:10.039 --> 00:51:16.079
a lot of like old Vietnam or
US made stuff. So these guys

734
00:51:16.199 --> 00:51:20.599
made it back to base. They
had one KA and there was five o

735
00:51:20.719 --> 00:51:23.159
their wounded in action and it's like
all right, I'm jumping in. I'm

736
00:51:23.239 --> 00:51:25.440
jumping in. I'm gonna do my
training. I'm gonna you know me and

737
00:51:25.480 --> 00:51:30.239
the eighteen delta are gonna start working
on these guys. And I remember we

738
00:51:30.360 --> 00:51:35.639
had this one guy who was the
driver and he was the most fucked up

739
00:51:35.679 --> 00:51:42.320
at anybody else, right, And
so like I remember gunshot wound tension nemo

740
00:51:42.400 --> 00:51:46.280
thorax. So tension nemo thorax is
when one side of the lung cavity collapses

741
00:51:47.079 --> 00:51:52.880
and you have to basically plug the
hole and then stable and then release the

742
00:51:52.920 --> 00:51:57.440
pressure on the opposite side to kind
of I don't know the science behind it,

743
00:51:57.639 --> 00:52:00.559
I know that's what you gotta do. Yeah, the attention more facts

744
00:52:00.599 --> 00:52:05.239
of what happens is there's a hole
in the lung. But but but the

745
00:52:05.880 --> 00:52:10.840
danger of attention newmreu thor x is
that when people like breathe in or whatever,

746
00:52:12.480 --> 00:52:17.119
that air fills uh, air fills
the gap between the lung and and

747
00:52:17.360 --> 00:52:22.719
the like or x. Yes,
so so that pressure keeps building and it

748
00:52:22.840 --> 00:52:28.199
starts to collapse the lung. So
you have to do some sort of decompression

749
00:52:28.239 --> 00:52:30.039
on it. And I remember,
well there was a whole lot of things.

750
00:52:30.119 --> 00:52:35.480
I did a intra ososis because at
the time our sitting operating procedure.

751
00:52:35.480 --> 00:52:39.559
If someone's unconscious, I owe him
push light a cane, push I you

752
00:52:39.599 --> 00:52:42.800
know, push the bone rror out
of the way. And this guy they

753
00:52:43.159 --> 00:52:45.239
loaded him up with kenmye as soon
as he came in to kind of calm

754
00:52:45.360 --> 00:52:49.199
him down a little bit, you
know, after getting his vitals, and

755
00:52:49.440 --> 00:52:51.880
I remember he can't. He woke
right up when I did that, and

756
00:52:51.960 --> 00:52:53.039
I was like, oh god,
I look at my eighteen deel. He's

757
00:52:53.039 --> 00:52:55.039
like, you're fine, Yeah,
you're fine, right, And this is

758
00:52:55.159 --> 00:52:58.920
my eighteen del. This is first
time doing any of this stuff outside the

759
00:52:59.000 --> 00:53:00.400
Q course too, so it's like, you know, me and him,

760
00:53:00.440 --> 00:53:06.840
and I remember I helped him.
There was like this machine he had.

761
00:53:07.000 --> 00:53:08.599
I don't know the science of it, but basically we had to put it

762
00:53:08.639 --> 00:53:14.840
in his gunshot wound and his long
to stabilize his his long cavity because we

763
00:53:14.920 --> 00:53:19.480
were gonna airlift him. We're gonna
metavac him out in a pressurized helicopter,

764
00:53:20.079 --> 00:53:24.639
right because the Filipinos had Hueys,
which you know our old Vietnam era huiz

765
00:53:24.679 --> 00:53:29.199
Yeah, and you know they're open
doors. You know, they can't go

766
00:53:29.360 --> 00:53:34.480
that high elevation wise, and so
we had to do that. I remember

767
00:53:34.519 --> 00:53:37.440
that was kind of gnarly but the
word, the thing that always stuck with

768
00:53:37.519 --> 00:53:44.480
me was we were his tourniquet wasn't
tight on his arm because he got shot.

769
00:53:44.519 --> 00:53:45.920
He had a five five six round
you know, entry wound on the

770
00:53:45.960 --> 00:53:52.719
outside, exit wound. Bicep was
gone. Right. I remember the the

771
00:53:53.119 --> 00:53:58.639
audible sound of his the meat of
his arm plopping on the table and my

772
00:53:58.760 --> 00:54:01.639
eighteen double going, oh, that's
not good. That's not good day,

773
00:54:01.920 --> 00:54:07.159
right, And we packed him up
and everything. But I remember the funniest

774
00:54:07.199 --> 00:54:09.400
thing he said that night, and
this is the only time I ever smoked

775
00:54:09.400 --> 00:54:15.000
a cigarette in my entire life,
and he's like, we packed this guy

776
00:54:15.159 --> 00:54:17.480
up, and he was like,
Jesus will not take this one, right,

777
00:54:17.599 --> 00:54:21.760
And it was like it was just
so fucking funny to me, right,

778
00:54:21.840 --> 00:54:23.280
you know, and like, you
know, the proudness of watching him,

779
00:54:23.760 --> 00:54:30.119
you know, go from new guy
doing his training exactly what he's set

780
00:54:30.199 --> 00:54:32.360
up to and saving some lives,
and it was it was really cool.

781
00:54:32.480 --> 00:54:36.400
So you're saying five five, but
the M sixties were seven six two,

782
00:54:36.559 --> 00:54:39.840
right, and then the ak's are
seven sixty? Were they firing? They

783
00:54:39.880 --> 00:54:45.960
had M sixteen's six sixteen's and they
had M sixties. Ok. Yeah,

784
00:54:45.039 --> 00:54:49.360
So like so they had a lot
of Vietnam era small arms whatever they were,

785
00:54:49.639 --> 00:54:52.119
Yes, but it was definitely the
size of the entry room. Yea

786
00:54:52.119 --> 00:54:55.000
was small, right, so it
was like the five five six down,

787
00:54:55.119 --> 00:54:59.000
Yeah, like one the central five. I mean, it's really cool to

788
00:54:59.039 --> 00:55:04.199
hear this story in the sense that
the cooperation between the American and the Filipino

789
00:55:04.320 --> 00:55:07.880
forces and a lot of people here
in the States don't understand. Like when

790
00:55:07.880 --> 00:55:13.639
I went and visited and I didn't
even realize this existed until a friend took

791
00:55:13.679 --> 00:55:17.719
me there. Huge. It looks
like Arlington and it's the American and Filipino

792
00:55:17.840 --> 00:55:24.079
soldiers buried together from World War Two
in the same cemetery. It just it's

793
00:55:24.119 --> 00:55:29.039
an incredible relationship that goes back like
over one hundred years at this point.

794
00:55:29.800 --> 00:55:32.719
I remember going down to a Filipino
Marine Corps event down in Tawi, Tawi

795
00:55:34.400 --> 00:55:38.840
and the guy stands up and is
given the presentation of all like the NPA

796
00:55:38.960 --> 00:55:47.719
and abusif guys they killed that year
like fourteen July six kia RH It's like

797
00:55:47.800 --> 00:55:52.159
the American Marine Corps like, holy
shit, like what have we done?

798
00:55:52.559 --> 00:55:54.880
Yeah, no, I know,
I think we did a fine job.

799
00:55:54.960 --> 00:56:00.039
If you ask me you know,
and it's a strong relationship and it's proceeded.

800
00:56:00.480 --> 00:56:07.280
The relationship is even stronger than the
tumultuous politics of the Philippines in America,

801
00:56:08.000 --> 00:56:15.360
be it Donald Trump or de Turte
Dite. That relationship between military and

802
00:56:15.480 --> 00:56:19.400
military persists, which I think speaks
to what you and your teammates did.

803
00:56:19.440 --> 00:56:22.280
Yeah, for sure, absolutely,
I mean it was it was all about

804
00:56:22.320 --> 00:56:24.880
rapport, you know. I mean
that's what they beat into your skull or

805
00:56:24.960 --> 00:56:29.079
or poor or port. You know, be technically intactically proficient. First,

806
00:56:29.199 --> 00:56:31.360
you know, everybody on ODA is
a shooter first, you know, but

807
00:56:31.679 --> 00:56:36.440
you know, know your mos,
know your job. But it's also all

808
00:56:36.519 --> 00:56:39.960
the people skills, having the emotional
intelligence, you know, reading the room,

809
00:56:40.039 --> 00:56:44.000
reading you know, what the host
nations feeling, you know, listening

810
00:56:44.039 --> 00:56:47.880
to their concerns. But it's also
the carmaraderie. You cannot beat the fucking

811
00:56:47.920 --> 00:56:52.199
carmaraderie, especially with them like and
and and I think you know, the

812
00:56:52.280 --> 00:56:55.119
stronger the bond you have, you
know, the easier it is to do

813
00:56:55.239 --> 00:57:01.079
hard shit with the host nation.
And that's something that separate screen Berets from

814
00:57:01.519 --> 00:57:05.920
everybody else. Well, and it's
interesting too, And I'm glad to hear

815
00:57:06.719 --> 00:57:13.079
that that you and others of your
generation, and you know, add that

816
00:57:13.199 --> 00:57:17.079
sort of attitude because I think like
during the g WAT, because the sexy

817
00:57:17.199 --> 00:57:23.119
part was was in the kicking and
the doors, so many guys in in

818
00:57:23.199 --> 00:57:27.079
the Green berets, so many guys
in the SF community were like, well,

819
00:57:27.119 --> 00:57:30.320
we don't want to do that,
you know, that host nation shit,

820
00:57:30.400 --> 00:57:32.079
like we're door kickers. Like you
can't be a door kicker with all

821
00:57:32.199 --> 00:57:36.639
guys like you in a semi permiss
environment, Like you need those host nation

822
00:57:36.800 --> 00:57:39.800
forces or those other forces to help
you do that. Absolutely, And I

823
00:57:39.920 --> 00:57:44.400
think like that's exactly what the experience
was, like, yeah, you know,

824
00:57:44.960 --> 00:57:46.719
I you know, I signed up
for the Adventure plus package. Yeah,

825
00:57:46.800 --> 00:57:50.800
don't get me wrong, man,
I was ready to go die with

826
00:57:51.039 --> 00:57:52.760
eleven other of my best friends on
the side of the hand New Kush too,

827
00:57:53.039 --> 00:57:58.559
like you know, and but we
sign up for the action. But

828
00:57:58.639 --> 00:58:02.199
the reality is is that's where we
make all the money is in those relationships.

829
00:58:02.239 --> 00:58:07.000
So that was actually the vibe for
a lot of us. And and

830
00:58:07.280 --> 00:58:10.239
you know, we all signed up, you know, we wanted to do

831
00:58:10.320 --> 00:58:14.599
the job, you know, right, wrong or different, whatever, however

832
00:58:14.599 --> 00:58:15.880
it came. We were happy to
do the job, you know, to

833
00:58:15.960 --> 00:58:19.920
wear the green beret and to serve, you know in the capacity that we

834
00:58:20.039 --> 00:58:24.519
did. So I think it's being
in Oknawa, being in first Battalion for

835
00:58:24.559 --> 00:58:29.400
a special Forces group. You're forced
to be creative, right, So you're

836
00:58:29.440 --> 00:58:34.239
working with senior guys that that majority
of their career they were door kickers,

837
00:58:34.559 --> 00:58:38.119
commando mission, commando mission in Iraq, right, and that's all that mattered,

838
00:58:38.679 --> 00:58:43.079
right, if you were you know, gas in Iraq, No one

839
00:58:43.159 --> 00:58:45.800
cared, nothing else mattered. My
sergeant major at the time knew I had

840
00:58:45.840 --> 00:58:49.519
a crazy flare in my eye,
and he was always like, all right,

841
00:58:49.519 --> 00:58:52.719
I gotta pull on this guy.
He is itching to get in a

842
00:58:52.760 --> 00:58:57.360
fucking gun. F yeah, yeah, exactly like that whole that whole mission.

843
00:58:57.400 --> 00:59:00.559
And Patty Cole He's like, where
the fuck are you? He's like,

844
00:59:00.840 --> 00:59:02.639
you will send me six hour updates
of where you are on the map,

845
00:59:02.760 --> 00:59:06.400
right, like, And it was
just like because he knew, he

846
00:59:06.519 --> 00:59:08.440
fucking knew, right, and as
a dude who's been there himself, right

847
00:59:08.559 --> 00:59:14.159
and and so, but it allows
you, it teaches you this creativity.

848
00:59:14.599 --> 00:59:19.559
So I I go to become the
team's eighteen Fox, which is the special

849
00:59:19.599 --> 00:59:22.559
forces and intelligence sergeant on the team. And you're doing you know, you

850
00:59:22.679 --> 00:59:27.840
research intelligence and you kind of you
see what the enemy is doing, and

851
00:59:27.920 --> 00:59:32.000
then you help devise mission and operations
with the rest of the team. So

852
00:59:34.039 --> 00:59:38.119
what I am in lieu of being
in a combat environment or going to Iraq

853
00:59:38.159 --> 00:59:42.800
in Afghanistan, which I always wanted
to do, I was gonna make the

854
00:59:42.840 --> 00:59:45.039
most of it where I was,
you know, and and so being a

855
00:59:45.079 --> 00:59:49.920
good green berets, what's the number
one rule? Figure it out, dude,

856
00:59:50.159 --> 00:59:53.639
right, figure it out. So
I did two bads. I did

857
00:59:53.719 --> 00:59:59.159
two J sets to the Philippines two
years after that rotation, right, and

858
00:59:59.440 --> 01:00:02.480
I ended up bo I was like, you know what, here's the idea.

859
01:00:04.119 --> 01:00:07.360
I'm gonna train them on F three
a D. Find fixed, finish,

860
01:00:07.280 --> 01:00:10.880
exploit, assessed to seminate. Right. So F three a D is

861
01:00:10.920 --> 01:00:17.119
the process that we use and counter
terrorism intelligence operator, and not just intelligence

862
01:00:17.119 --> 01:00:21.519
operation, but the whole counter terrorism
life cycle, right, is you find

863
01:00:21.599 --> 01:00:25.360
the bad guy, you get a
fix on their location, you finish airstrike

864
01:00:25.480 --> 01:00:30.440
raid however you need to do it, and then you get all the intel

865
01:00:30.519 --> 01:00:34.360
off of that, and then that
feeds into the next cycle of operations,

866
01:00:35.000 --> 01:00:38.920
and so I went there. It
was like early twenty sixteen, and this

867
01:00:39.119 --> 01:00:43.760
was the This served as the I'm
all about crawl. So being a green,

868
01:00:43.880 --> 01:00:46.480
right, you guys remember this crawl
walk run methodology. All right,

869
01:00:46.519 --> 01:00:50.440
I have an idea for a concept. Let's crawl first. So go down

870
01:00:50.480 --> 01:00:55.760
there. I'm working with the PMP, the Philippine National Police Force, and

871
01:00:55.840 --> 01:01:00.519
they're targeting all these bad dudes.
And so all I really did is I

872
01:01:00.599 --> 01:01:05.840
went in there using my eighteen fox
knowledge. I realized that they had no

873
01:01:05.960 --> 01:01:09.079
way of visualizing their intelligence at all
like they would. You know, they're

874
01:01:09.119 --> 01:01:14.480
calling human intelligence sources, they're talking
to they're talking to action agents, all

875
01:01:14.559 --> 01:01:17.719
these other things, principal agent network, stuff like that, but they're not

876
01:01:17.800 --> 01:01:21.239
putting it on a map and they're
not drawing a lot, you know,

877
01:01:21.599 --> 01:01:24.159
just like just make him a coup, you know, military combined opscle overlay.

878
01:01:24.760 --> 01:01:29.039
And so I just give them a
very simple class in that. And

879
01:01:29.239 --> 01:01:32.679
ray A Reno, who was one
of the guys that did the Marwan raid,

880
01:01:34.239 --> 01:01:37.920
right, I was working with his
dudes, just real staff, the

881
01:01:37.000 --> 01:01:43.840
staff, right, special Action force. And he's like he's like, none

882
01:01:43.880 --> 01:01:45.920
of the guys I was training.
Thought I was going to bring him in

883
01:01:45.039 --> 01:01:51.639
because I knew him from OEFP.
And he comes in and they're briefing him

884
01:01:51.719 --> 01:01:54.960
target intelligence packages and then he gets
on the phone He's like, why haven't

885
01:01:54.960 --> 01:01:59.679
we actioned this? I want this
action tonight. And so we just saw

886
01:01:59.800 --> 01:02:02.639
this and you know live, you
know, building capacity, and they go

887
01:02:02.719 --> 01:02:07.360
out and do it. So version
two point zero of that was I did

888
01:02:07.400 --> 01:02:10.119
it again, but this time we
went after an ISIS target. At this

889
01:02:10.239 --> 01:02:15.400
point, it's in twenty sixteen.
A lot of the ABUSAF groups, a

890
01:02:15.440 --> 01:02:17.800
lot of the offshoots that the abusaief
Group have pledge allegiance to ISIS. This

891
01:02:17.920 --> 01:02:22.000
is about when Marawi's about to kick
off. Yes, it was actually right

892
01:02:22.719 --> 01:02:28.800
right before Marawi, because Marawi happened
in May of twenty fifteen, I think.

893
01:02:30.039 --> 01:02:36.760
And that was Insulin Haplon and the
Mate group and you know, over

894
01:02:36.760 --> 01:02:39.480
the years we were watching that kind
of the Mate group was like the carrier

895
01:02:39.519 --> 01:02:45.400
of black flag ideology because we were
kicking so much ass in Sentcom and kicking

896
01:02:45.440 --> 01:02:49.079
ass in the Philippines that they were
they were kind of losing a steam.

897
01:02:49.679 --> 01:02:53.400
But then when IIS popped off,
it really like breathed a ton of life

898
01:02:53.440 --> 01:02:59.599
into the gi hotties. There's an
interesting story there about how through the Madrasas

899
01:02:59.800 --> 01:03:04.039
and you know, golf money was
flown into the Philippines like after nine to

900
01:03:04.039 --> 01:03:07.480
eleven around that time frame, and
we did some work to mitigate that.

901
01:03:07.199 --> 01:03:10.559
But then as ISIS pops off.
I mean to what you're talking about,

902
01:03:10.880 --> 01:03:16.519
some of these groups pledged allegiance to
ISIS to try to acquire overseas international funding.

903
01:03:19.039 --> 01:03:27.079
The the I forget what FtF is
foreign something financial, I forget the

904
01:03:27.119 --> 01:03:30.760
acronym, but yeah, the whole
count CTF counter our finance, right,

905
01:03:30.000 --> 01:03:34.920
and it was huge and all these
to raise their profile, right, Yeah,

906
01:03:35.079 --> 01:03:38.559
that they're out there basically like they're
they're like what are the baseball team

907
01:03:38.599 --> 01:03:42.280
the minor leagues or the not even
the minor leagues, but you know like

908
01:03:42.639 --> 01:03:45.719
the little Triple A. Yeah,
yeah, they're out there like Triple A

909
01:03:45.840 --> 01:03:49.519
teams, like trying to like say
hey look at us. No, that's

910
01:03:49.639 --> 01:03:53.320
that's not far off, man,
Because these these guys were like bandits and

911
01:03:53.440 --> 01:03:57.159
then all of a sudden they like, oh, actually were ice. Yeah,

912
01:03:57.159 --> 01:03:59.920
if we say we're ISIS, maybe
we'll get some Maybe it gets on

913
01:04:00.079 --> 01:04:01.840
money, and that was the thing
you saw that obviously, I have group

914
01:04:01.880 --> 01:04:05.039
in the early two thousands when al
Qaeda was you know, had all his

915
01:04:05.119 --> 01:04:08.400
tree credit in the world to who
they were. But then you know,

916
01:04:08.519 --> 01:04:13.199
you fast forward isis is Isis takes
over the bank in Mozoul, gets access

917
01:04:13.199 --> 01:04:15.519
to what it was like two hundred
and fifty million dollars or something like that.

918
01:04:15.639 --> 01:04:18.199
I still have a trouble processing this
story that there's two hundred and fifty

919
01:04:18.199 --> 01:04:21.119
million dollars in a bank in Missool. I have a hard time with that.

920
01:04:23.119 --> 01:04:27.559
You're tell you about the Golden Fort
Knox, No, I know,

921
01:04:28.559 --> 01:04:31.639
I have a hard time with that. But it was they were doling out

922
01:04:31.679 --> 01:04:35.960
two milli to you pledge to be
a will Willia will give you two million

923
01:04:36.000 --> 01:04:40.400
dollars. Yeah, and so you
know who's first in line, hap on

924
01:04:40.440 --> 01:04:42.480
On and the boys, you know
what I mean, Like they were like,

925
01:04:42.760 --> 01:04:45.360
oh yeah, well we got free
two million dollars and you know,

926
01:04:45.440 --> 01:04:47.239
we get to do this, Oh
oh, we got to basically, you

927
01:04:47.320 --> 01:04:50.920
know, do a siege. Okay. And you know at that point,

928
01:04:51.119 --> 01:04:55.760
I was on battalion staff waiting to
get in the position, you know,

929
01:04:55.960 --> 01:05:00.480
to become go the intelligence officer do
the intelligence officer thing. But you know,

930
01:05:00.519 --> 01:05:03.039
I was doing a lot of support
for those guys as an eighteen fox,

931
01:05:03.320 --> 01:05:05.199
you know, and they did it. They did a pretty good job,

932
01:05:05.360 --> 01:05:09.480
like you know, and we got
him and it was a huge celebration

933
01:05:09.599 --> 01:05:14.119
because every single First Group Green Beret
at one point in their career went after

934
01:05:14.199 --> 01:05:16.039
half on one, you know what
I mean. Yeah, it's like a

935
01:05:16.159 --> 01:05:18.920
tale as old as time. Same
thing with Marwan, you know, and

936
01:05:19.079 --> 01:05:21.719
everyone, like, you know,
I talked to I talked to GB's like,

937
01:05:21.760 --> 01:05:24.760
oh yeah, I know that raid
you're talking about, you know,

938
01:05:24.840 --> 01:05:27.920
the raid that never happened, like
you know, and and it's it's kind

939
01:05:27.960 --> 01:05:32.119
of funny, but I mean it's
what it is, right, So yeah,

940
01:05:32.320 --> 01:05:40.119
targeting isis anything else about the Philippines
before we move on? No,

941
01:05:40.239 --> 01:05:43.840
it was just funny. I remember
that that isis target that we brought down

942
01:05:44.199 --> 01:05:45.920
or help bring down. It was
all the Filipinos that did it. But

943
01:05:46.119 --> 01:05:49.760
uh I remember, like they were
like, hey, thank you so much

944
01:05:49.840 --> 01:05:53.880
for that j set that was very
critical in us being able to get this

945
01:05:53.960 --> 01:05:58.280
target. And at the time it
was General Fenton was a sock pack commander

946
01:05:58.559 --> 01:06:00.440
right now he's a so confident,
and he's like front of the line and

947
01:06:00.480 --> 01:06:04.320
the set rep man that goes from
the line line of the set rep and

948
01:06:04.440 --> 01:06:10.000
it goes up to so calm.
And I remember I was on battalion staff

949
01:06:10.000 --> 01:06:15.760
at this point. I get a
phone. I remember my S three great

950
01:06:15.880 --> 01:06:18.519
dude, but he was not going
to take this phone call. And he

951
01:06:18.639 --> 01:06:25.559
was like, oh, started fielding, it's for you. It's like I

952
01:06:25.599 --> 01:06:29.039
think the Deputy Director of Operations G
three so calm. And I was like,

953
01:06:30.519 --> 01:06:31.920
and they're like, what the fuck
did you do right now? You

954
01:06:31.960 --> 01:06:33.360
know? And I told him the
story. It was like, we just

955
01:06:33.400 --> 01:06:38.599
build partner force capacity so fucking well
that they had the confidence to go out

956
01:06:38.639 --> 01:06:41.199
there and hint it themselves. Yeah, And he's like, beautiful, cool,

957
01:06:41.320 --> 01:06:45.239
We're good, right, And I'm
like, oh shit, yeah,

958
01:06:45.239 --> 01:06:47.039
well I thought I was in deep
shit, you know what I mean?

959
01:06:47.119 --> 01:06:49.679
Well, thank you at an alibi, right, like you guys were on

960
01:06:49.760 --> 01:06:53.280
your way out of country when it
happened. Totally, we were one one

961
01:06:53.360 --> 01:06:57.239
thirty no way, yeah, none
the wiser innocent brother. The glove does

962
01:06:57.320 --> 01:07:01.599
not fit, yeah exactly exactly,
yeah, no way. We got our

963
01:07:01.639 --> 01:07:04.639
hand in that way. We were
on We're on our way. Yeah,

964
01:07:04.679 --> 01:07:11.880
you know. Yeah, So Okay, somewhere around this time frame, this

965
01:07:12.159 --> 01:07:15.960
idea of you know, the army
intelligence comes into your mind somehow, some

966
01:07:16.159 --> 01:07:21.559
way. So I guess the question
first off is were you spooky and did

967
01:07:21.639 --> 01:07:29.199
you feel the love? Definitely felt
the love. Definitely felt the love,

968
01:07:29.519 --> 01:07:32.239
and so the the I was reading
a lot of spine novels at the time,

969
01:07:32.760 --> 01:07:39.320
and Taker Tailor Soldier Spy, you
know that whole Carlo by La ca

970
01:07:39.360 --> 01:07:45.159
Care and Lacare excuse me, and
a variety of different other spy novels and

971
01:07:45.280 --> 01:07:50.400
stuff, and so the whole idea
of human intelligence operations was very cool to

972
01:07:50.480 --> 01:07:56.320
me. You see a lot of
movies and you've been to a SAT You've

973
01:07:56.360 --> 01:08:00.760
been to eighteen five quars, so
you had a bit of the annual piece

974
01:08:00.039 --> 01:08:04.320
and you had a bit of the
trade the tradecraft a little bit. Yeah,

975
01:08:05.400 --> 01:08:09.559
yeah, a little bit, yeah, exactly, just a taste,

976
01:08:10.079 --> 01:08:13.039
just just a tease. I'm like, this is tease. I want to

977
01:08:13.079 --> 01:08:16.800
go. You want to know what
that knee looks like? Yeah, give

978
01:08:16.840 --> 01:08:19.239
you the name, let's go.
We'll go from there. Yeah. By

979
01:08:19.279 --> 01:08:21.439
the time I gets to n I'm
sure I'm good, right, Yeah,

980
01:08:23.920 --> 01:08:27.079
But like and that that's really what
it was. And so we had two

981
01:08:27.119 --> 01:08:29.760
individuals. They came out to the
battalion and they briefed, it's on this

982
01:08:29.880 --> 01:08:32.920
program and they would basically it was
like, hey, this is the path

983
01:08:33.000 --> 01:08:35.720
to become a case officer, and
you know, you can do this,

984
01:08:36.000 --> 01:08:41.039
you can do that. And you
know, for me, I was pretty

985
01:08:41.079 --> 01:08:45.159
tired, you know. I even
though at the time where when I was

986
01:08:45.199 --> 01:08:51.520
in ok I was going on average
eight months on average eight months at every

987
01:08:51.600 --> 01:08:56.000
year. You know, it was
always like you know, oh yeah,

988
01:08:56.159 --> 01:08:58.760
after OEFP, I got a little
bit of downtime, and then it was

989
01:08:58.840 --> 01:09:05.720
like eighteen fox course. Then Tyley
and j said Philippines training here, training

990
01:09:05.760 --> 01:09:10.079
in Korea, you know, the
Paul but you know, all over the

991
01:09:10.159 --> 01:09:14.119
map. And so I and I
was married at the time, and I'm

992
01:09:14.239 --> 01:09:16.319
like, you know, hey,
clock sticking. You know, I think

993
01:09:16.359 --> 01:09:19.960
it's time that you know, we
start thinking about having kids. And and

994
01:09:20.039 --> 01:09:24.520
I kind of looked at that career
as being this is going to sound insane.

995
01:09:24.600 --> 01:09:27.600
So you think being a spy is
more stable than being on an ODA,

996
01:09:29.199 --> 01:09:31.640
you know. But they sold that
to you too, right, They're

997
01:09:31.760 --> 01:09:35.680
like, oh, you know you
we'll put you somewhere, that's where you'll

998
01:09:35.720 --> 01:09:39.680
work, no worries. Yeah,
and that's exactly it. And you're like,

999
01:09:39.840 --> 01:09:42.520
you know, the you allerre.
Oh you can do your job during

1000
01:09:42.560 --> 01:09:45.319
the day and then you go home
or you have a night job, and

1001
01:09:45.399 --> 01:09:48.079
then you go your home with your
family and everything else, and like no

1002
01:09:48.199 --> 01:09:51.079
one's the wiser. And I was
kind of cool. But I was also

1003
01:09:51.119 --> 01:09:56.960
attracted to the fact of like just
sheerly being able to get away with shit,

1004
01:09:57.399 --> 01:10:00.520
like the excitement of like getting away
with something yeah was technically illegal.

1005
01:10:01.079 --> 01:10:06.520
And you know, this is like
kind of there is a dichotomy of being

1006
01:10:06.880 --> 01:10:13.000
an intelligence officer or human intelligence officer, right, and it's I remember in

1007
01:10:13.159 --> 01:10:15.680
high school. Yeah, I'm an
eagle scout. I was a varsity athlete,

1008
01:10:17.119 --> 01:10:20.039
solid B student, you know what
I mean. I had too much

1009
01:10:20.119 --> 01:10:25.000
going on. But then by night, me and my friends, you know,

1010
01:10:27.600 --> 01:10:31.079
yeah, showed up to house parties
returntables and microphones, right and and

1011
01:10:31.319 --> 01:10:35.119
like mceing house parties and uh,
you know, running beer for the town,

1012
01:10:35.560 --> 01:10:38.239
right, you know, with all
the other high school kids. So

1013
01:10:38.239 --> 01:10:42.479
it was like it was like the
right amount of like all right, this

1014
01:10:42.680 --> 01:10:45.119
is like kind of a balance and
it was like something I understood inherently just

1015
01:10:45.199 --> 01:10:48.239
who I am, and and and
I kind of looked at its fun and

1016
01:10:48.359 --> 01:10:50.680
for me at the time, I
was like, I get to work by

1017
01:10:50.720 --> 01:10:56.199
myself and the challenge of that.
There was a couple there was a couple

1018
01:10:56.239 --> 01:11:00.399
of ops I did just in you
know, Southeast Asia that I was doing

1019
01:11:00.439 --> 01:11:02.520
singleton stuff. Yeah, you know, or just you know two man teams

1020
01:11:02.560 --> 01:11:09.840
too. Yeah. And so it
was like this idea of being armed with

1021
01:11:10.119 --> 01:11:14.560
nothing, with nothing more of our
wit. But yeah, we need we

1022
01:11:14.640 --> 01:11:17.399
need more booze, right, Okay, cool, It's it's funny. It's

1023
01:11:17.439 --> 01:11:21.680
funny while we're taking that psych refilled
break. It's funny how you bring that

1024
01:11:21.840 --> 01:11:28.159
up, because I I remember when
I took my m M P I you

1025
01:11:28.239 --> 01:11:30.199
know, for so dick, right, because you have to take that psych

1026
01:11:30.279 --> 01:11:32.880
test so to make sure that you're
not the one the about whether or not

1027
01:11:32.960 --> 01:11:38.039
you like flowers. Yeah, yeah, if and and and and if you

1028
01:11:38.199 --> 01:11:45.239
know the person who's responsible responsible for
all your problems exactly, yeah, yeah,

1029
01:11:45.079 --> 01:11:49.840
and dad, And so when the
doc came out, you know,

1030
01:11:51.079 --> 01:11:55.199
definitely what you say on the snipers. When when the shrink came out,

1031
01:11:55.359 --> 01:11:58.800
you know, I was just joking
around. It's like, so am I

1032
01:11:58.960 --> 01:12:01.600
saying? And he goes as saying
as everybody else that you know that is

1033
01:12:01.680 --> 01:12:03.880
in your line of work and takes
this test, I'm like, well,

1034
01:12:03.960 --> 01:12:06.800
what does that man? And he
goes, well, he goes, interestingly

1035
01:12:06.920 --> 01:12:11.560
enough, he goes, you all
have sociopathic tennessees, you're not sociopaths,

1036
01:12:11.640 --> 01:12:14.920
like the test would show us if
you're a sociopath. He goes, but

1037
01:12:15.119 --> 01:12:18.640
what what like people in this field? I guess military, you know,

1038
01:12:19.600 --> 01:12:26.039
psychiatrists, psychologists. What we don't
understand is you guys have the same like

1039
01:12:26.199 --> 01:12:31.840
sociological or the psychological profile as criminals. We just don't know why one of

1040
01:12:31.960 --> 01:12:38.960
you goes one way and the other
group goes the other way. So there's

1041
01:12:39.039 --> 01:12:43.159
always that appeal of being you know, pirates and hooligans, right, That's

1042
01:12:43.199 --> 01:12:46.000
exactly it. Yeah. Probably one
of my favorite quotes is from Sergeant Major

1043
01:12:46.079 --> 01:12:51.760
Chuck Ritter. I was at the
senior leader's course back in twenty seventeen or

1044
01:12:51.840 --> 01:12:55.880
whatever, and he was falling around
in leadership. But he came in,

1045
01:12:56.000 --> 01:12:59.920
you know, because he has like
three or four purple hearts and awesome,

1046
01:13:00.119 --> 01:13:03.000
dude, riot of a human being
like absolutely riot. But he says,

1047
01:13:03.079 --> 01:13:05.000
he's like, you know what,
you know what it's like being an ODA.

1048
01:13:05.960 --> 01:13:09.319
It's like you're just in the pirate
ship with all the other pirates.

1049
01:13:09.720 --> 01:13:12.439
Everyone's got fucking scurvy, right,
you know what I mean? Right?

1050
01:13:12.560 --> 01:13:14.520
You know, like for me,
I was like a first group experience.

1051
01:13:14.520 --> 01:13:16.760
I'm like deng gay, malaria,
fucking you know, all these things,

1052
01:13:16.880 --> 01:13:20.119
right, And it was a riot. But there is that element and like

1053
01:13:20.199 --> 01:13:23.439
there's a lot of guys out there
who are like, I want to do

1054
01:13:23.520 --> 01:13:27.279
hood rat ship with my friends,
and that that's really what it is.

1055
01:13:27.640 --> 01:13:30.920
And you know, in the book, it's like at the extreme level,

1056
01:13:30.399 --> 01:13:34.039
you know, we're going to go
out and you know we have carte blanche

1057
01:13:34.840 --> 01:13:40.520
to produce intelligence, you know,
kill, capture isis and Alcaida, right,

1058
01:13:40.680 --> 01:13:45.720
and and you know the ice isis
leadership and by any means necessary,

1059
01:13:45.920 --> 01:13:48.119
obviously within the legal left and right
limits of whatever. Lawyer is a scientist,

1060
01:13:48.560 --> 01:13:51.079
the group and stuff. But like
it's just just legal much fun.

1061
01:13:51.439 --> 01:13:57.039
It's legal. It's legal for you
to do it in the purview of the

1062
01:13:57.159 --> 01:14:00.520
United States, but it's very illegal
for you to do it in the country

1063
01:14:00.600 --> 01:14:02.600
that you're in. Totally. Yeah, totally. I mean, I mean

1064
01:14:02.640 --> 01:14:05.520
I don't understand all the relationships and
everything else. I mean, we're there,

1065
01:14:06.000 --> 01:14:12.720
We're doing this job in support of
counter terrorism operations, right, which

1066
01:14:12.760 --> 01:14:15.720
is establishing you know, creating more
secure environment, you know, better economic

1067
01:14:15.760 --> 01:14:18.680
circumstances, all these other things.
So it's like, all right, there,

1068
01:14:19.039 --> 01:14:24.720
you gotta have a crew of dudes
willing to go all the way.

1069
01:14:25.479 --> 01:14:30.399
And that's kind of how I viewed
that job, you know. And so

1070
01:14:30.560 --> 01:14:33.840
these so these two guys named mister
Smith show up and give you a briefing.

1071
01:14:34.359 --> 01:14:39.760
They you know, was this just
for Foxes or was this for like

1072
01:14:39.920 --> 01:14:45.239
any senior SF guys? It was
it was open to the battalion. I

1073
01:14:45.359 --> 01:14:47.359
don't remember how many. There was
a bunch of us that attended. There

1074
01:14:47.479 --> 01:14:53.000
was like some guys that were you
know into you know, kind of looking

1075
01:14:53.079 --> 01:14:57.680
to do the spooky thing. But
I think I was the only dude that

1076
01:14:57.800 --> 01:15:00.880
applied out of it. But I
applied, and I didn't hear for like

1077
01:15:01.319 --> 01:15:04.159
a year and a half. And
at this point I was looking at getting

1078
01:15:04.199 --> 01:15:09.039
out of the army and and and
I was like, all right, well

1079
01:15:09.039 --> 01:15:11.600
I'm just going to figure this out. Use my gi Bill benefits, go

1080
01:15:11.720 --> 01:15:14.840
back to school whatever, figuring out
my you know, my at the time

1081
01:15:14.960 --> 01:15:18.319
wife, right, And but then
I get this like email, this memo

1082
01:15:18.479 --> 01:15:23.239
from this four star general you know, and sipper. It was like congratulations

1083
01:15:23.279 --> 01:15:26.840
you got picked up and we're gonna
work on your orders and blah blah blah

1084
01:15:26.840 --> 01:15:29.239
blah blah. And I was like, oh, holy shit, this is

1085
01:15:29.359 --> 01:15:33.319
happening. Okay. Cool. So
and in the the the squadron that I

1086
01:15:33.439 --> 01:15:41.239
was going to at the time,
the squadron commander was a Green Beret and

1087
01:15:42.239 --> 01:15:46.079
he was hot to bring in Green
berets. So I was the first Green

1088
01:15:46.159 --> 01:15:50.840
Beret this unit ever had. Where
where else, if you can talk about

1089
01:15:50.880 --> 01:15:59.560
it, where else was this unit
pulling people from generally everywhere? But what

1090
01:15:59.720 --> 01:16:03.319
I was a lot of former soft
enablers, former soft enablers who are already

1091
01:16:03.479 --> 01:16:11.279
like in the intel world type of
thing. We had some other I think

1092
01:16:11.319 --> 01:16:18.199
we had trying to think specifically,
I think it was mostly, if not

1093
01:16:18.399 --> 01:16:23.119
all, people with an intelligence MLS
or discipline, you know, and it

1094
01:16:23.279 --> 01:16:25.960
was like the same thing. They
wanted to get out outside the wire,

1095
01:16:26.159 --> 01:16:29.319
do some cool shit, you know. I know, you'd prefer that we

1096
01:16:29.479 --> 01:16:34.000
not name any units or specifics like
that. But I would like to point

1097
01:16:34.039 --> 01:16:39.439
out how it incorrect me if I'm
coming off base here at any point that

1098
01:16:40.199 --> 01:16:45.159
you left Special Forces and now you're
in an unconventional career track, totally on

1099
01:16:45.239 --> 01:16:49.800
conventional career track, and I'm still
being rated as an s F NCO,

1100
01:16:50.199 --> 01:16:57.279
but now you're on DASSER and you
are going into a different this alphabet soup

1101
01:16:57.359 --> 01:17:00.560
of things I didn't even understand.
I mean, I was terrible with admin,

1102
01:17:00.119 --> 01:17:02.119
you know, I don't think a
single s F guy is good at

1103
01:17:02.119 --> 01:17:04.920
admin shit, right, you know, and so like let alone all this

1104
01:17:05.079 --> 01:17:09.000
other stuff, you know, but
you know someone was managing it, yeah

1105
01:17:09.159 --> 01:17:14.840
and whatever. But because of the
certifications you get in the uniqueness of the

1106
01:17:14.960 --> 01:17:19.680
career path, I made eight pretty
quick, you know, first look at

1107
01:17:19.720 --> 01:17:23.520
eight, I you know, I
got, you know, I got,

1108
01:17:23.880 --> 01:17:27.000
I was eligible to pick up you
know, I you know, got out

1109
01:17:27.159 --> 01:17:31.720
still as an E seven special starting
first class. But like but really,

1110
01:17:31.880 --> 01:17:36.479
you know, for the audiences,
you know, you this job now,

1111
01:17:38.079 --> 01:17:41.319
coming into it, I didn't know
what to expect jumping into it, you

1112
01:17:41.359 --> 01:17:45.439
know, didn't know you know,
the three letter agencies I was gonna be

1113
01:17:45.479 --> 01:17:47.039
working for, had no no expectations
but I was like, I want to

1114
01:17:47.079 --> 01:17:50.680
do human intelligence operations, like this
is cool, this is it. I'm

1115
01:17:50.680 --> 01:17:54.680
gonna do surveillance detection rounds. I'm
gonna do trade craft. I'm gonna do

1116
01:17:54.800 --> 01:17:59.920
bumps. I'm gonna do you know, right, like all this sexy stuff,

1117
01:18:00.239 --> 01:18:03.119
like and scoot my briefcase under a
table to somebody. Yeah, with

1118
01:18:03.239 --> 01:18:08.520
like a solid couple grand in there, right, bar gold bars, yeah,

1119
01:18:09.359 --> 01:18:12.960
yeah for us, you know,
yeah, yeah, you know,

1120
01:18:13.119 --> 01:18:18.119
I hoisted them out of there.
But you heard it here first, yeah,

1121
01:18:18.520 --> 01:18:23.399
first. Yeah, but there's a
there's a there's a good story about

1122
01:18:23.640 --> 01:18:27.880
heists in the book. I'll save
that for later. But like they but

1123
01:18:28.039 --> 01:18:30.319
so it was you know, opening
up of this world. But for me,

1124
01:18:30.479 --> 01:18:32.800
the op tempo was more stable and
I just had to get through this.

1125
01:18:33.000 --> 01:18:36.359
It ended up being like twenty something
months of training. So I started

1126
01:18:36.439 --> 01:18:42.840
off twenty eighteen. I reported to
d C, had no idea where I

1127
01:18:42.960 --> 01:18:44.960
was going. They're like, hey, stay in you know, you can

1128
01:18:45.000 --> 01:18:47.079
stay in this area and we'll call
you in this and the ard thing and

1129
01:18:47.239 --> 01:18:50.640
you go through this process where you
get a badge and all the ship and

1130
01:18:50.720 --> 01:18:54.560
so it takes months. So at
that point they've lined me up for all

1131
01:18:54.640 --> 01:18:59.119
the spy training that I was doing, and it was and we'll kind of

1132
01:18:59.199 --> 01:19:01.520
we'll transition into the book, because
this is where the book picks up is,

1133
01:19:01.920 --> 01:19:05.239
you know, I go to this, I go this this training and

1134
01:19:05.279 --> 01:19:10.319
this prep course that they had us
go to and you have this like forty

1135
01:19:10.399 --> 01:19:15.279
year thirty five to forty year veteran
of the CIA, and and he's talking

1136
01:19:15.359 --> 01:19:18.279
all SF guys right getting ready to
do this training and shit, and I

1137
01:19:18.399 --> 01:19:23.520
love this because he says, gentlemen, what you're getting to learn, what

1138
01:19:23.640 --> 01:19:28.800
you're about to learn to do is
a felony or capital crime. And basically

1139
01:19:29.039 --> 01:19:33.399
every country you're doing this in and
in this business, no one gives a

1140
01:19:33.479 --> 01:19:38.720
fuck about you. And and it
always stuck with me and the whole no

1141
01:19:38.760 --> 01:19:43.039
one gives a fuck about you,
bline is really about it's all about the

1142
01:19:43.159 --> 01:19:45.119
source, right, and it's all
about Carr and the source, and like

1143
01:19:45.239 --> 01:19:48.640
none of your ego none. And
if you're doing this job right, it's

1144
01:19:48.720 --> 01:19:53.800
extremely fucking inconvenient to you. Yeah, as a case officer, like you're

1145
01:19:53.880 --> 01:19:58.800
busting your fucking ass all the time. Como. You know, communication plans,

1146
01:19:58.960 --> 01:20:03.520
right, cables irs, But like
you know you're doing your sigilance in

1147
01:20:03.560 --> 01:20:06.720
section round, you got to make
sure you're sort of around it all off

1148
01:20:06.800 --> 01:20:11.800
sack everything with it. You know. Not only that you're you're constantly assessing

1149
01:20:11.840 --> 01:20:15.560
this human being, you know,
for flaws, vulnerabilities, changes and accesses,

1150
01:20:15.720 --> 01:20:20.279
changes and motivations, you know,
and anything else that's going on in

1151
01:20:20.399 --> 01:20:24.680
a life. But you have this
person that's in front of you, right

1152
01:20:24.840 --> 01:20:27.560
when you finally, as we like
to say, lift the skirt, and

1153
01:20:27.640 --> 01:20:30.720
you're like, oh, surprise,
the United States Intelligence, you know,

1154
01:20:31.600 --> 01:20:36.920
like, this is really what this
relationship? Right, if you've done they

1155
01:20:38.000 --> 01:20:42.159
usually don't. Yeah, if you've
done your development right, they usually know

1156
01:20:42.239 --> 01:20:44.439
what's up by that. You're like, look, I don't really like the

1157
01:20:44.560 --> 01:20:50.079
Kardashians. I just said that because
yeah, and usually I mean I would

1158
01:20:50.119 --> 01:20:54.640
imagine a person that watches that show. There they're going to attract certain certain

1159
01:20:54.640 --> 01:20:57.680
attributes, you know, that that
would be interesting. But you know,

1160
01:20:57.760 --> 01:21:01.640
as we like to say, it's
it's not about them simply wanting the money.

1161
01:21:01.800 --> 01:21:04.319
It's what the money's for, right, you know, right, and

1162
01:21:04.439 --> 01:21:10.159
so but it was really cool for
me. So but at this time,

1163
01:21:10.199 --> 01:21:12.399
you know, and this is really
what the book is about. Is more

1164
01:21:12.880 --> 01:21:15.520
less about the sexy shit, but
more about all the mental health aspects and

1165
01:21:15.560 --> 01:21:19.439
the internal dialogue, right, you
know, because I'm coming off of you

1166
01:21:19.560 --> 01:21:25.880
know, four plus years of team
time, right, you know, going

1167
01:21:25.920 --> 01:21:28.960
here, there, everywhere in Southeast
Asia, never home, and you know,

1168
01:21:29.079 --> 01:21:31.920
I'm I'm swapping it for also a
high stress career. And you know,

1169
01:21:32.000 --> 01:21:34.880
but to me, my optic is
like, you know, most of

1170
01:21:34.880 --> 01:21:38.600
the situation, it's not my job
to go kicking a door, right,

1171
01:21:38.760 --> 01:21:41.119
I'm I'm the guy that's going to
figure out which door to kick in,

1172
01:21:41.279 --> 01:21:43.960
right, And and that was like
kind of the cool you know, the

1173
01:21:44.079 --> 01:21:49.439
dynamic of coming from my ODA was
at the time was ut you know,

1174
01:21:49.560 --> 01:21:53.520
more focused on direct action. We
were a boat team, and but we

1175
01:21:53.600 --> 01:21:57.600
were all direct action, you know, so always breaching, oh you know,

1176
01:21:58.159 --> 01:22:00.079
going live nods in the house,
you know, pushing the limit.

1177
01:22:01.279 --> 01:22:04.279
But so you know, taking all
that experience of like how we set up

1178
01:22:04.279 --> 01:22:08.840
a raid, doing doing stuff on
OEFP that you know, exposed me that

1179
01:22:08.880 --> 01:22:11.560
stuff is like, all right,
now I'm the guy that's doing the intel.

1180
01:22:11.600 --> 01:22:15.960
Now do you know out of curiosity? One, how did you deal

1181
01:22:16.039 --> 01:22:20.359
with that? And two do you
think that you dealt with it better or

1182
01:22:20.520 --> 01:22:27.000
worse than say somebody who had been
in a neighbor and had moved been moved

1183
01:22:27.079 --> 01:22:29.720
up, I don't want to say
moved up, but they were in more

1184
01:22:29.720 --> 01:22:31.600
of an action oriented role, but
they still weren't the number one guy in

1185
01:22:31.680 --> 01:22:35.840
the door. Did some of them
want that out of the job where you

1186
01:22:36.000 --> 01:22:42.560
had already sort of had that and
you were fine with like being the that's

1187
01:22:42.600 --> 01:22:45.840
it guy. I was totally fine
being with that's a guy. But you

1188
01:22:46.279 --> 01:22:51.159
what I experienced was you had a
lot of people chasing prestige. M hm.

1189
01:22:51.520 --> 01:22:56.640
You do like the sexiness of the
job of doing you know, high

1190
01:22:56.720 --> 01:23:05.359
level intelligence operations for all these three
letter eight agencies that like you had have

1191
01:23:05.479 --> 01:23:09.800
like this sort of dichotomy, right, It's the same thing and corporate environments.

1192
01:23:09.880 --> 01:23:13.680
The same thing everywhere else is that
you have ops guys, right,

1193
01:23:13.800 --> 01:23:15.319
and then you have you know,
guys that like to do the soft skill

1194
01:23:15.359 --> 01:23:19.720
stuff in the backside and the leadership
and you know talk and good idea fairy

1195
01:23:20.520 --> 01:23:24.600
briefing, right, And I'm like, you know, and that was like

1196
01:23:24.720 --> 01:23:27.239
kind of the mindset I brought to
this job was the same mindset I had

1197
01:23:27.279 --> 01:23:30.760
on the ODA. Was like operationally
Ford leaning operationally Ford leaning. And so

1198
01:23:31.039 --> 01:23:36.279
it's for the people out there,
it's at the job is extreme, like

1199
01:23:38.199 --> 01:23:41.960
we there's all these different units out
there, right, you have like I

1200
01:23:42.039 --> 01:23:45.840
know, like TFO, Right,
you have jasock units, tiered units,

1201
01:23:45.920 --> 01:23:51.680
et cetera. Right, all that
stuff. Where I was at the level

1202
01:23:51.760 --> 01:23:59.960
ontomony was huge, Right, you
had to be extremely entrepreneurial on your own,

1203
01:24:00.920 --> 01:24:03.399
even when they deployed me last minute
to Iraq and Syria. You know,

1204
01:24:03.600 --> 01:24:05.600
a lot of the ship I was
doing on the ground over there,

1205
01:24:05.960 --> 01:24:11.399
other than you know, helping you
know, produce intelligence against ISIS and l

1206
01:24:11.479 --> 01:24:15.520
CATA targets, I was working on
strategic ship strategic ship too, you know.

1207
01:24:15.720 --> 01:24:20.920
So it was like you had you
only so you can go talk to

1208
01:24:21.119 --> 01:24:25.560
five people. You know, one
of those people, one of those persons

1209
01:24:25.600 --> 01:24:29.880
are gonna work out, you know, and and and so it's it's having

1210
01:24:29.920 --> 01:24:33.479
a lot of irons in the fire. But I found, though, is

1211
01:24:33.640 --> 01:24:41.319
that you had for two people like
people that come from an intelligence background getting

1212
01:24:41.319 --> 01:24:45.359
the certification, becoming a case officer, becoming that right, going to FTC

1213
01:24:45.960 --> 01:24:49.159
or the other courses or anything like
that. They have that that wasson now,

1214
01:24:49.520 --> 01:24:53.039
right, and and and and that's
really what it was. And for

1215
01:24:53.119 --> 01:24:57.600
them it was like a self actualization, whereas more like I was like,

1216
01:24:58.880 --> 01:25:04.800
this is just a cool thing I
want to do, you know, where

1217
01:25:04.880 --> 01:25:09.399
for them this was sort of the
pinnacle of the field that they were in

1218
01:25:09.479 --> 01:25:16.479
a lot of times. Absolutely so
without without getting into you know, obviously

1219
01:25:17.159 --> 01:25:19.760
say as much or as little as
you want to. But you know,

1220
01:25:19.840 --> 01:25:25.760
when we look at the different agencies
who have UH and and even within the

1221
01:25:25.840 --> 01:25:30.680
military, the different organizations under the
d i A or whomever who have case

1222
01:25:30.760 --> 01:25:41.039
officer qualified people. Here you're in
a very small project UH a special access

1223
01:25:41.119 --> 01:25:48.000
program and also trained to conduct these
human intelligence operations and also working with people

1224
01:25:48.039 --> 01:25:55.560
who have their own people. Can
you talk at all about where you guys

1225
01:25:55.800 --> 01:26:01.039
fit in in the tactical strategic picture
of a this if you can, if

1226
01:26:01.119 --> 01:26:08.239
absolutely and it's not it's not anything. I don't think it's anything hard to

1227
01:26:08.359 --> 01:26:11.239
really talk about. It's if you
look at it this way, right,

1228
01:26:12.000 --> 01:26:15.520
every unit they have a mission,
right, and just in the intelligence community

1229
01:26:16.039 --> 01:26:19.800
and in these intelligent secretive intelligence units
that you know, one of which I

1230
01:26:19.880 --> 01:26:26.359
belong to, is you have information
needs, right, and you have something

1231
01:26:26.399 --> 01:26:30.600
called an operating directive. Every CIA
station has an operating directive, right,

1232
01:26:30.640 --> 01:26:33.800
and they're like, all right,
the case officers, these are this is

1233
01:26:33.880 --> 01:26:38.159
all the shit we care about.
Go out there and collect against that.

1234
01:26:39.800 --> 01:26:46.000
What makes us special is that our
O D Operating directive was so vast right

1235
01:26:46.079 --> 01:26:49.600
in what we could go after.
And a lot of it is working buy

1236
01:26:49.680 --> 01:26:54.439
with and through all these other three
three letter agencies. So if you take

1237
01:26:54.680 --> 01:26:58.920
take my green Beret background, a
buy width and through host nation, you

1238
01:26:59.000 --> 01:27:00.760
know a lot of it. What
it is is I go out there,

1239
01:27:00.800 --> 01:27:05.520
I find something right, it might
answer this intelligence requirement. There's a customer

1240
01:27:05.600 --> 01:27:12.000
everywhere, and that's where it's like, you're not even so how it fits

1241
01:27:12.039 --> 01:27:15.520
into the tactical you know, and
strategic you know, our tactical operational strategic

1242
01:27:15.640 --> 01:27:19.479
level like effects is like, you
know, you have customers all over the

1243
01:27:19.520 --> 01:27:24.039
place, and you know, there
was we were talking, we were talking

1244
01:27:24.079 --> 01:27:29.479
earlier. It was like I had
this one op where I didn't you know,

1245
01:27:29.560 --> 01:27:30.800
I had intel. I was like, I don't know what to do

1246
01:27:30.880 --> 01:27:35.399
with this. And I reached out
to a particular you know, area of

1247
01:27:35.479 --> 01:27:39.239
the world and I was like,
hey, you know, I think you

1248
01:27:39.319 --> 01:27:42.479
guys should care about this and they're
like, oh, yeah, we really

1249
01:27:42.520 --> 01:27:45.239
do. And then we work together
and we ended up shutting down this adversary

1250
01:27:45.479 --> 01:27:50.000
operation there, right. So it's
like a lot of it is taking something

1251
01:27:50.239 --> 01:27:56.279
very tactical that no one else thinks
who you care about, right in spotting

1252
01:27:56.359 --> 01:28:01.319
the opportunity. And that's why I
say that entrepreneurial. It's so entrepreneurial.

1253
01:28:01.479 --> 01:28:04.760
And and this is the thing,
it's like you're either growing or you're dying,

1254
01:28:05.359 --> 01:28:11.520
right and the day and the dangerous
thing is that when you are so

1255
01:28:11.760 --> 01:28:15.960
wrapped up in your identity of doing
the job and the mission and everything else,

1256
01:28:16.640 --> 01:28:23.039
it does require a lot from you. Before we jump too far ahead,

1257
01:28:23.159 --> 01:28:26.640
I want to talk about you're going
through all this you know, spy

1258
01:28:26.800 --> 01:28:29.720
schools, all this training that you're
going through, but at the same time,

1259
01:28:29.840 --> 01:28:33.079
your personal life is starting to come
unwound. And that's in your book

1260
01:28:33.119 --> 01:28:36.880
Into the Darkness I mean, I
mean, because we want to talk about

1261
01:28:36.920 --> 01:28:42.119
this piece of it as well,
tell us about what was going on with

1262
01:28:42.239 --> 01:28:45.359
you, you know, not just
professionally, but also personally. So a

1263
01:28:45.399 --> 01:28:48.439
lot of the book is about those
internal dialogues, right, I think as

1264
01:28:48.560 --> 01:28:55.000
like a case officer, right or
an intelligence human intelligence professional. You learn,

1265
01:28:55.680 --> 01:29:00.720
right, you you learn it's mostly
a job about emotional intelligence and in

1266
01:29:00.760 --> 01:29:05.880
building genuine connection with yourself and most
importantly asking yourself why and and so in

1267
01:29:06.000 --> 01:29:11.960
this book or in you know,
my story really is like, you know,

1268
01:29:12.119 --> 01:29:15.720
I make all these sacrifices for my
ex wife, and you know,

1269
01:29:15.760 --> 01:29:19.479
because I wanted to start a family, we wanted to you know, we're

1270
01:29:19.479 --> 01:29:24.000
gonna have more stability. You know, I was sold on all these things.

1271
01:29:24.159 --> 01:29:26.199
I was like, yeah, you
know, you know, the potential

1272
01:29:26.239 --> 01:29:29.199
will be an operational where I live, and I'll be home, I'll be

1273
01:29:29.279 --> 01:29:31.239
home for dinner right right, and
you won't have to raise the kids by

1274
01:29:31.279 --> 01:29:35.399
yourself. And so it's like,
but you know, I make all these

1275
01:29:35.439 --> 01:29:40.079
sacrifices. I sign up for six
more years and uncle Sam, I take

1276
01:29:40.119 --> 01:29:45.439
this job. And you know,
so we moved to DC, and you

1277
01:29:45.560 --> 01:29:48.680
know, I look at like this
time being you know, potentially the most

1278
01:29:48.720 --> 01:29:53.640
stable time. And they're already talking
about like when there's the squadron is already

1279
01:29:53.640 --> 01:29:56.199
talking about when they were slating me
to deploy, and I was like,

1280
01:29:56.239 --> 01:30:00.039
all right, cool, Like it
really turns onto the most unstable time in

1281
01:30:00.119 --> 01:30:01.439
terms of the most undistable time.
So you know, I'm sitting down,

1282
01:30:01.479 --> 01:30:06.359
I'm having all a glass of Balveni
with my you know, with my wife,

1283
01:30:06.399 --> 01:30:09.119
and I was like, you know
what I think this is that we

1284
01:30:09.119 --> 01:30:12.079
should start trying this year, just
start trying to have a kid. And

1285
01:30:13.079 --> 01:30:15.039
you know, at this point,
I had like one iteration of like my

1286
01:30:15.199 --> 01:30:18.920
intelligence training you know, knocked out, or two iterations of intelligence training that

1287
01:30:19.039 --> 01:30:24.960
knocked out at this point. And
and She's like, I don't think so

1288
01:30:25.119 --> 01:30:29.000
I want to travel more. And
I'm like, we're done traveling, yeah,

1289
01:30:29.239 --> 01:30:31.359
you know, like this is yeah, we lived in Japan for five

1290
01:30:31.439 --> 01:30:34.000
years. Like we're good, you
know what I mean, Like I want

1291
01:30:34.039 --> 01:30:36.199
to be on the East coast,
close to my family, close to your

1292
01:30:36.239 --> 01:30:40.279
family, everything else like that.
So I was, uh, you know,

1293
01:30:40.399 --> 01:30:44.600
I I and instead of being what
the fuck are you saying? Right,

1294
01:30:44.640 --> 01:30:46.079
I was like new, you know, this new intelligence training. I

1295
01:30:46.119 --> 01:30:49.000
was starting to like, you know, what's going on here? And I'm

1296
01:30:49.039 --> 01:30:53.119
like, you know what, I
should ask why? Right? And and

1297
01:30:53.239 --> 01:30:54.960
I was like, well, why
do you feel that way? You know,

1298
01:30:55.039 --> 01:30:57.760
we just lived here and I'm trying
to frame it and everything else.

1299
01:30:57.840 --> 01:31:00.279
And she gets really uneasy and she's
just like you know, I don't want

1300
01:31:00.279 --> 01:31:03.640
to ever have kids, right eventually, And I was like, huh,

1301
01:31:04.479 --> 01:31:06.960
I'm like all right, well,
like when we signed up to do this,

1302
01:31:08.239 --> 01:31:10.640
you know, when we got married, this was like eventually the long

1303
01:31:10.760 --> 01:31:15.039
term plan. So at the time
I was, I was training for my

1304
01:31:15.079 --> 01:31:19.840
first ultra marathon. And you know
my grandfather was you know, Jack Fielding.

1305
01:31:19.920 --> 01:31:24.800
He was like one of the og
long distance runner, ran marathons into

1306
01:31:24.840 --> 01:31:30.479
his sixties and he did a double
century, a double century cycling ride.

1307
01:31:31.319 --> 01:31:33.760
I don't know how. I think
he was in his late fifties early sixties

1308
01:31:35.319 --> 01:31:40.720
from from from Boston to Portland,
Maine, which is like one hundred hour

1309
01:31:40.880 --> 01:31:44.159
hundred back, right, and all
he had in his bag was like tuna

1310
01:31:44.199 --> 01:31:49.960
fish in water, which I think
talk about it like I like, if

1311
01:31:50.000 --> 01:31:53.920
I am not my grandfather, you
know, if I am not of his

1312
01:31:54.039 --> 01:31:56.359
blood, I'd be really surprised,
you know what I mean. I'm the

1313
01:31:56.399 --> 01:31:59.520
same exact way like you just learn
you know, his years of being a

1314
01:31:59.560 --> 01:32:01.520
pow you are, your collective years
of being green bray. You just learned

1315
01:32:01.560 --> 01:32:05.359
to like live without shitsterity. Yeah, you're like, oh fuck it,

1316
01:32:05.399 --> 01:32:08.720
I'll be fine, Right, It's
somebody as bad as that one time,

1317
01:32:08.920 --> 01:32:12.800
yeah, and so like but anyways, like you know, I was training

1318
01:32:12.800 --> 01:32:18.159
for my first Ultra and I'm doing
like fifteen eighteen mile training runs. And

1319
01:32:18.640 --> 01:32:25.319
what's an Ultra thirty six or fifty? It's thirty The baby Ultra is thirty

1320
01:32:25.399 --> 01:32:28.479
miles thirty it's like thirty thirty one
miles, right, it's a fifty K.

1321
01:32:28.760 --> 01:32:31.560
So I was training for a fifty
K and and I'm out there,

1322
01:32:31.640 --> 01:32:34.199
I'm in the woods. I'm just
logging miles and I'm like, fuck,

1323
01:32:34.279 --> 01:32:38.079
man, what the fuck do I
do? Dude? Right? And I'm

1324
01:32:38.159 --> 01:32:41.680
like, I'm like, do I
divorce her? Like you know, and

1325
01:32:42.000 --> 01:32:45.800
I'm running and you know, all
these intern all this internal dialogue is you

1326
01:32:45.840 --> 01:32:47.199
know, on repeat in my mind, like what do I do? And

1327
01:32:47.279 --> 01:32:51.880
then I'm like scared shitless to date
again? Right? And and not that

1328
01:32:51.960 --> 01:32:56.399
I know because I was with her
my entire twenty So it's like I don't

1329
01:32:56.439 --> 01:33:00.720
know how to fucking do that again, like you know, But and so

1330
01:33:00.359 --> 01:33:04.840
I do. My first Ultra did
it in like six and a half hours,

1331
01:33:05.399 --> 01:33:13.000
thirty thirty miles and some change in
fifty k, and we end up.

1332
01:33:13.439 --> 01:33:16.079
You know, it was it was
a friend that called me, a

1333
01:33:16.199 --> 01:33:20.119
Norch friend who called me. And
this is where the shit gets wild,

1334
01:33:20.399 --> 01:33:25.079
right, And you know in the
army you do all a suicide awareness training

1335
01:33:25.159 --> 01:33:28.840
and all of a sudden what Yeah, and this guy like me and him

1336
01:33:28.880 --> 01:33:31.520
watch this video click next, yeah, click next. Or if you're a

1337
01:33:31.560 --> 01:33:34.960
new guy on the team, you're
doing the entire teams like all their fifty

1338
01:33:35.039 --> 01:33:38.840
nasal training, right, that was
the right of passage for a lot of

1339
01:33:38.960 --> 01:33:43.920
guys. Yeah, I did their
cyber awareness training. You're gonna do my

1340
01:33:44.079 --> 01:33:51.039
cide right, But fucking anyways,
like we so this good friend of mine,

1341
01:33:51.159 --> 01:33:57.159
Jean, I was his upper classman
at Norwich. I was when I

1342
01:33:57.279 --> 01:34:00.039
was a sophomore. I was his
corporal cadre and so he was my my

1343
01:34:00.159 --> 01:34:03.000
fire team and I took care of
him. And this kid was going to

1344
01:34:03.039 --> 01:34:09.319
be a general officer someday. Easy. Like infantry was our you know,

1345
01:34:10.159 --> 01:34:15.079
served in one hundred first Rocaissan Paktika
Province. I think it was, you

1346
01:34:15.119 --> 01:34:17.319
know, nine months of slugging an
out with the Taliban, good fucking range,

1347
01:34:17.359 --> 01:34:21.479
qualified off, you know, infantry
officer obviously, you know, not

1348
01:34:21.560 --> 01:34:25.079
going to get a platoon without it, right, type of thing and conventional

1349
01:34:25.119 --> 01:34:28.880
forces. And but when I was
in the Q course, like me,

1350
01:34:29.159 --> 01:34:33.720
he lived outside of Fort Bragg,
and you know, I would go up

1351
01:34:33.760 --> 01:34:36.479
to him. We'd play golf.
We get fucking wasted, you know,

1352
01:34:36.520 --> 01:34:41.560
we drive around a golf cart,
chasing after deer and you know, at

1353
01:34:41.680 --> 01:34:45.239
night and you know, just doing
funny ass dude shit familiar. Yeah,

1354
01:34:45.520 --> 01:34:48.920
And so he calls me. He
hits me up at like eight o'clock in

1355
01:34:49.000 --> 01:34:51.520
the morning, and he's like,
dude, I need to talk. And

1356
01:34:51.720 --> 01:34:57.960
the only time I hear from him
is like he's you know in the you

1357
01:34:58.039 --> 01:35:00.680
know, half in the bag,
right, I love you, but brother,

1358
01:35:00.119 --> 01:35:02.359
right, you know, in the
middle of the night. Wake it

1359
01:35:02.479 --> 01:35:05.279
awesome, kid, right. You
know, he's from Boston area too.

1360
01:35:05.399 --> 01:35:11.600
So but at eight am was a
giant, red fucking flag and so I

1361
01:35:11.680 --> 01:35:14.560
was like, hey, I'll call
you as soon as I get on the

1362
01:35:14.640 --> 01:35:18.560
road, and and so I give
him a ring and and he's like,

1363
01:35:20.640 --> 01:35:23.600
I don't know how to say this, So I'm just gonna say this,

1364
01:35:24.319 --> 01:35:29.159
and this is completely out all I
field. He's like, I'm not really

1365
01:35:29.359 --> 01:35:32.680
a man, I'm really a woman. And I was like, huh.

1366
01:35:34.159 --> 01:35:38.560
But at the same time, though, this is a guy like, you

1367
01:35:38.640 --> 01:35:41.960
know, I shared a lot of
shared suffering with Yeah, and I didn't

1368
01:35:41.960 --> 01:35:44.920
know how the fuck to take it. But yeah, I'm thinking, I'm

1369
01:35:45.039 --> 01:35:49.359
like knowing him or her? Right, excuse me, there's a forty five

1370
01:35:49.439 --> 01:35:54.920
on the table, and I have
no idea if I'm the last phone call

1371
01:35:55.600 --> 01:36:00.800
before right, just to see and
you know, I tell him her or

1372
01:36:00.159 --> 01:36:04.680
tell her, and I'm like,
I'm like, you know, I don't

1373
01:36:04.720 --> 01:36:08.279
care whatever the fuck you are,
You'll always be a brother at me,

1374
01:36:08.800 --> 01:36:13.159
you know, not knowing anybody,
you know what I mean? And then

1375
01:36:13.439 --> 01:36:19.159
he or she started crying and and
going into it. But the thing about

1376
01:36:19.520 --> 01:36:25.760
Jean, this is Jean in the
book, And the thing that really fucking

1377
01:36:25.760 --> 01:36:30.560
stuck with me was that what what
what they said to me was I can't

1378
01:36:30.600 --> 01:36:34.279
go another day without being happy orout
being true to myself. Yeah, not

1379
01:36:34.359 --> 01:36:40.279
being who you are. And the
entire fucking time I'm going out doing hours

1380
01:36:40.359 --> 01:36:45.119
of training on the trail afraid of
you know, the stigma of a divorce,

1381
01:36:45.319 --> 01:36:47.199
the you know, a broken marriage, what that is? Who the

1382
01:36:47.279 --> 01:36:50.199
fuck wants to date a guy in
his mid thirties, right, you know,

1383
01:36:50.640 --> 01:36:53.840
with all this other stuff, right, and I'm like, I don't

1384
01:36:53.840 --> 01:36:57.680
even know how to date anymore.
And this dude, excuse me, a

1385
01:36:57.760 --> 01:37:00.479
girl, right, this chick,
yeah, this guy twin girls on the

1386
01:37:00.520 --> 01:37:03.800
way with his wife. Right.
And it's like, you know, I

1387
01:37:03.960 --> 01:37:09.439
know exactly who you're talking about,
right, probably, but I am not

1388
01:37:09.600 --> 01:37:12.319
gonna I'm not gonna put it up. No, no, I won't either.

1389
01:37:14.760 --> 01:37:16.000
But I know, I know,
I I definitely know that, you

1390
01:37:16.159 --> 01:37:20.399
know, you know, and wild
story. It is a wild story.

1391
01:37:20.560 --> 01:37:25.640
But you know, for me,
was like this in their life, they

1392
01:37:25.680 --> 01:37:29.239
are a powerlifter. I don't think. So I don't know, Okay,

1393
01:37:29.319 --> 01:37:33.840
maybe maybe it is a different person. I've lost contact with Jean because around

1394
01:37:33.880 --> 01:37:38.720
this time, you know, in
the subsequent months of me going through more

1395
01:37:38.760 --> 01:37:42.319
spy training and everything else, like
I couldn't you know, I couldn't go,

1396
01:37:42.560 --> 01:37:45.960
you know, I couldn't go doing
everything that was going on my personal

1397
01:37:45.960 --> 01:37:46.880
life. I couldn't deal with anyone
else, right, you know what I

1398
01:37:47.000 --> 01:37:50.720
mean. And so I remember I
said to myself, I was like,

1399
01:37:51.199 --> 01:37:55.680
what the fuck am I afraid of? You know, a divorce whatever?

1400
01:37:55.960 --> 01:37:58.319
Right, you know what I mean? And so I remember it was kind

1401
01:37:58.319 --> 01:38:00.800
of inspiring, right that, like
Gene called you up and was like,

1402
01:38:00.960 --> 01:38:03.479
hey, I'm this now. Yeah
that took some balls, right, it

1403
01:38:03.600 --> 01:38:09.920
took some real balls or lack of
or whatever, like you know, but

1404
01:38:10.119 --> 01:38:12.840
like but it took and like it
took. Yeah, it took. It

1405
01:38:12.920 --> 01:38:15.560
took. Yeah, it definitely took
a lot of courage, right yeah.

1406
01:38:15.680 --> 01:38:20.039
And you know, and so with
that, I was looking at, you

1407
01:38:20.119 --> 01:38:23.000
know, my wife at the time, and I was like, I'm really

1408
01:38:23.039 --> 01:38:26.920
afraid of like you know, I
have all these internal dialogues that I'm like,

1409
01:38:27.279 --> 01:38:29.840
I'm afraid of what's going to happen, you know, what's the secondary

1410
01:38:29.920 --> 01:38:32.439
or effects of this? So like
that falling conversation the falling weekend, and

1411
01:38:32.520 --> 01:38:36.239
like I decided to have the conversation
with my wife and it did not go

1412
01:38:36.399 --> 01:38:40.520
as well as I thought it was
going to go. I'm thinking I have

1413
01:38:40.760 --> 01:38:43.600
like I'm hot shit, I'm hot
shit. I got like, you know,

1414
01:38:43.680 --> 01:38:45.560
this little bit of intel training.
I'm like, oh, I can

1415
01:38:45.600 --> 01:38:47.199
frame it. Yeah, and you
know I could be friendly, firm,

1416
01:38:47.239 --> 01:38:50.039
fair, and final, right,
which is uh, you know the terminology

1417
01:38:50.199 --> 01:38:55.199
run a source through determination meeting.
And as it turns out, there were

1418
01:38:55.199 --> 01:39:00.720
a limitations. This training received,
very much limitation. I've received not as

1419
01:39:00.800 --> 01:39:03.520
cool as I thought one should be
able to look at the CIA divorce rates

1420
01:39:03.600 --> 01:39:09.760
and figure that out. Yeah,
exactly right, Like like there's a whole

1421
01:39:09.840 --> 01:39:15.960
body of evidence there that says some
things cannot be solved through trade, trade

1422
01:39:16.000 --> 01:39:23.720
craft exactly. Clever conversations and all
these tools and every and emotional intelligences is

1423
01:39:23.760 --> 01:39:26.840
ill limit for sure. But she
got on a plane the next day and

1424
01:39:26.880 --> 01:39:29.960
I never saw her again. Wow, man, yeah man. And it

1425
01:39:30.119 --> 01:39:32.399
was like we were together for I
think in total, like twelve years between

1426
01:39:32.479 --> 01:39:34.960
marriage and dating. What did What
did that feel like? Man? That

1427
01:39:35.119 --> 01:39:38.960
like you're living your truth, but
at the same time, I mean there

1428
01:39:39.039 --> 01:39:45.399
is very like real personal consequences.
Well in the classic day fielding sense is

1429
01:39:45.600 --> 01:39:48.560
like you know, at the time
was I'm just gonna continue on bury myself

1430
01:39:48.640 --> 01:39:51.399
in work, bury myself in work. And so they were like, hey,

1431
01:39:51.479 --> 01:39:55.600
we want you to They're like,
we want you to finish all your

1432
01:39:55.680 --> 01:39:58.079
human training this year, and I
was like, yeah, fuck yeah,

1433
01:39:58.159 --> 01:40:00.720
let me let me finish. I
got nothing else for two now, right,

1434
01:40:01.279 --> 01:40:04.520
And so you know, I take
off for spy school. But all

1435
01:40:04.600 --> 01:40:06.920
this shit is with me. Sure, all this shit is with me.

1436
01:40:08.439 --> 01:40:11.000
And every time, you know,
we turn in all our phones, you

1437
01:40:11.079 --> 01:40:14.960
turn in your wallet, and you
get swapped out. And you know,

1438
01:40:15.079 --> 01:40:18.079
one of the gatekeepers that I talk
about in the book, he was he

1439
01:40:18.199 --> 01:40:24.000
was a former SF guy, and
it was wicked funny because I think he

1440
01:40:24.119 --> 01:40:29.479
picked my like fake name, like
they kind of do it based on personality,

1441
01:40:29.800 --> 01:40:34.960
and I was Jackie ray Biggs.
So I like completely fucking leaned into

1442
01:40:35.000 --> 01:40:38.760
that, right, Jackie ray Biggs. So I'd leave, I'd become Jackie

1443
01:40:38.840 --> 01:40:41.800
ray Biggs, and I'd come back
and I'd have some serious fucking day fielding

1444
01:40:41.880 --> 01:40:45.600
problems which were like this, you
know, more bad law, more bad

1445
01:40:45.680 --> 01:40:48.800
news for my lawyers. Right,
I was getting, you know, wanted

1446
01:40:48.920 --> 01:40:53.920
alimony, wanted all his shit,
and you know I would always I'd be

1447
01:40:53.960 --> 01:40:56.960
out in the road. I'm doing
these long ass surveillance detection routes and I'm

1448
01:40:57.000 --> 01:41:00.880
remembering all my turns, all my
cover stops, time hacks. I need

1449
01:41:00.960 --> 01:41:02.319
to be there, you know,
So time hacks is like you know,

1450
01:41:02.560 --> 01:41:09.640
time on target that you need to
be there, And meanwhile remembering the commo

1451
01:41:09.720 --> 01:41:14.119
plan for my source and then showing
you know, showing up and being excited

1452
01:41:14.199 --> 01:41:17.439
to see them. And I'm like
in this car and I'm just fucking like

1453
01:41:17.720 --> 01:41:21.399
all these things are on repeat in
my head, you know, this negative

1454
01:41:21.439 --> 01:41:26.640
internal dialogue that just is like I'm
never gonna win. And that was the

1455
01:41:26.640 --> 01:41:30.439
biggest mistake that I made with this
in the start of this was that I

1456
01:41:30.560 --> 01:41:33.000
looked at you know, depending on
the outcome of the divorce was me as

1457
01:41:33.079 --> 01:41:38.000
winning or losing. Right. And
you know, to add insult to injury

1458
01:41:38.239 --> 01:41:41.760
was a lot of my you know, you like to say war money you

1459
01:41:41.840 --> 01:41:44.439
make on deployments and stuff. You
know, I paid off a lot of

1460
01:41:44.479 --> 01:41:48.479
her chre student loans and stuff like
that. So out of curiosity. I

1461
01:41:48.520 --> 01:41:50.960
don't know if you know this,
but did she get married within like two

1462
01:41:51.039 --> 01:41:55.279
years and have kids? I have
no idea, Yeah, I have no

1463
01:41:55.399 --> 01:42:00.279
I feel as though, I mean, first, the things that we do,

1464
01:42:00.960 --> 01:42:02.560
uh you know, people say thank
you for your service, but things

1465
01:42:02.600 --> 01:42:08.319
that we do are are are very
selfish, Like we we are living the

1466
01:42:08.439 --> 01:42:14.840
dream, like we we are living
the lives that we imagine to small kids,

1467
01:42:15.119 --> 01:42:18.039
right, the lives that they make
movies about. And when we're married

1468
01:42:18.079 --> 01:42:21.479
and we're doing that, I think
we forget that we're leaving somebody. You

1469
01:42:21.560 --> 01:42:27.960
know, somebody got married to be
in a partnership, yes, and all

1470
01:42:28.000 --> 01:42:30.279
of a sudden they're at home alone. I mean they've got their own mife

1471
01:42:30.319 --> 01:42:39.319
obviously in job and whatever they're doing, but they also are single but married.

1472
01:42:39.680 --> 01:42:43.920
And we're out there like live in
the dream, Live in the dream,

1473
01:42:44.000 --> 01:42:46.279
baby, and and we leave a
lot of people behind. I think

1474
01:42:46.319 --> 01:42:49.239
when we do that, and you
know what, I agree, I'll agree

1475
01:42:49.439 --> 01:42:54.520
to that, you know. And
there there is stress on both ends the

1476
01:42:54.600 --> 01:42:58.359
spectrum, you know, but you
know, there wasn't any lack of pining

1477
01:42:58.479 --> 01:43:00.439
for each other. Yeah, you
know, yeah out there and it wasn't

1478
01:43:00.479 --> 01:43:03.319
like I was just like I'm on
the OA, I'm with the boys,

1479
01:43:03.359 --> 01:43:05.880
I can't talk to you. Yeah. I was like always making an effort,

1480
01:43:06.079 --> 01:43:09.680
always making an effort, you know, and no matter what, like

1481
01:43:10.000 --> 01:43:12.800
I had any downtime, I'd spend
it talking to her. And this is

1482
01:43:12.840 --> 01:43:16.680
the great thing about living in the
age we live in is that we have

1483
01:43:18.239 --> 01:43:21.920
Skype and all these other things,
FaceTime, et cetera. So there was

1484
01:43:23.000 --> 01:43:26.680
no lack of effort on my behalf. But it was, I mean,

1485
01:43:26.920 --> 01:43:30.760
for me, it felt as though
I just signed six more years in the

1486
01:43:30.920 --> 01:43:35.359
army because you thought, because I
thought we were going to have more stability.

1487
01:43:35.600 --> 01:43:40.119
Yeah, I was gonna be home
a lot more, and you know,

1488
01:43:40.600 --> 01:43:43.520
it would be great for us.
But what I ended up starting to

1489
01:43:43.600 --> 01:43:48.319
see was I saw the person that
I wasn't around anymore, you know,

1490
01:43:48.399 --> 01:43:54.239
when I was on deployment and stuff
like that. And really it was she

1491
01:43:54.560 --> 01:43:59.560
had a vision for her life that
was different than a vision that I had

1492
01:43:59.640 --> 01:44:01.399
for us together. You know.
You know, she had her version,

1493
01:44:01.720 --> 01:44:04.159
I had my version. It just
wasn't gonna work out right, and so

1494
01:44:05.159 --> 01:44:09.960
and these are things that we all
deal with, you know, and the

1495
01:44:10.039 --> 01:44:14.479
high divorce rate within special operations,
high divorce rate within you know, intelligence

1496
01:44:14.479 --> 01:44:16.000
community c I A for you know, for example, and stuff like that.

1497
01:44:16.800 --> 01:44:23.920
And as as as you're going through
this training, uh that, I

1498
01:44:24.000 --> 01:44:29.239
mean, there comes another woman into
the picture. And as we were talking

1499
01:44:29.279 --> 01:44:31.000
about a little bit earlier, you
know, some of your friends read the

1500
01:44:31.039 --> 01:44:33.840
book and they're like, really,
Dave, like what the fuck? Man?

1501
01:44:34.479 --> 01:44:38.119
And and I thought the same thing. As I was reading your book,

1502
01:44:38.159 --> 01:44:40.479
I'm like, dude, really,
But then as I think about it

1503
01:44:40.520 --> 01:44:43.039
a little bit more, I'm like, I did all the same things,

1504
01:44:48.439 --> 01:44:53.880
dude. I know. It's a
story as oldest time. It's a story

1505
01:44:54.000 --> 01:44:56.840
is oldest time, Like, you
get down with that divorce, right,

1506
01:44:57.199 --> 01:45:01.039
I show him I'm this hot shit
green beret know in this special you know,

1507
01:45:01.199 --> 01:45:06.359
SAPPED Intel unit, and and you
know, they find out I'm going,

1508
01:45:06.439 --> 01:45:09.680
you know, some of these women
find out I'm going for the divorce,

1509
01:45:09.720 --> 01:45:12.720
and it's like, oh, he's
open, he's open season, man.

1510
01:45:12.920 --> 01:45:15.479
Yeah. Right, And there's just
something I have a very good friend

1511
01:45:15.520 --> 01:45:18.359
of mine, he's a very senior
sergeant major in Special Forces. Love the

1512
01:45:18.479 --> 01:45:20.720
dude to death. And he was
like, he said to me after he

1513
01:45:20.760 --> 01:45:24.279
read the book, He's like,
Dave, I don't fucking get it what

1514
01:45:24.399 --> 01:45:29.239
it is with you know, run
the mill female intel officers and loving s

1515
01:45:29.399 --> 01:45:32.000
F guys. But this is the
quintessential story, right, And I think

1516
01:45:32.079 --> 01:45:34.760
I know what it is. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, And

1517
01:45:34.880 --> 01:45:41.079
it's also like it's not like there
aren't any cautionary tales out there for us

1518
01:45:41.159 --> 01:45:45.600
to learn from. It's just that
this time it'll be different. This time

1519
01:45:45.640 --> 01:45:48.760
will be different. And and to
your point, I had friends going really

1520
01:45:48.880 --> 01:45:51.960
Dave. And so for the audience, I'm not gonna spoil too much of

1521
01:45:53.000 --> 01:45:57.399
the book for you, but you
know, I end up in this spicy

1522
01:45:57.520 --> 01:46:01.279
relationship, very spicy, very spicy
re ship, you know, the the

1523
01:46:01.439 --> 01:46:05.600
individual, you know, I feel
like it's a tale as old as time,

1524
01:46:05.760 --> 01:46:09.880
like I said earlier, but it's
especially true to you know, a

1525
01:46:10.000 --> 01:46:14.159
Boston white kid, kid from Boston, a white kid from Boston, you

1526
01:46:14.239 --> 01:46:17.000
know, with a latina. Yes, right, Ben Affleck needs to read

1527
01:46:17.039 --> 01:46:23.239
this fucking book. Yeah right,
Like yeah, like that's that's I mean,

1528
01:46:23.279 --> 01:46:25.920
if a man knows it's that dude. Yeah right. You know,

1529
01:46:26.239 --> 01:46:30.720
I've never seen a telenovela. You
you have no idea what you're getting and

1530
01:46:30.880 --> 01:46:32.439
I never did. Yeah, and
I had no idea what I was getting

1531
01:46:32.439 --> 01:46:35.079
myself into. But it was like
I had a buddy of mine. He

1532
01:46:35.159 --> 01:46:38.399
sent a screenshot from the book.
He's like, really, Dave, three

1533
01:46:38.439 --> 01:46:41.399
divorces and you didn't You said you
were going to be the one to change

1534
01:46:41.439 --> 01:46:43.359
it all. Yeah, And it
was like, yeah, I'm a fucking

1535
01:46:43.479 --> 01:46:46.720
you know, I'm intel, fucking
you know, master conversationalist, EQ master

1536
01:46:47.359 --> 01:46:50.800
Nujitsu. Right. It's like,
no, no, I was not ready

1537
01:46:50.840 --> 01:46:55.319
for that. Yeah, you know
what, three divorces before thirty there's something

1538
01:46:55.720 --> 01:46:58.640
going on there. Yeah, and
you know what, it's just I can

1539
01:46:58.720 --> 01:47:03.319
fix her it's a tail poll.
But also too is like you know me

1540
01:47:03.399 --> 01:47:06.800
at that time is like I look
at myself for who I you know,

1541
01:47:08.159 --> 01:47:10.439
like in that time, I was
in a fucking rush. Yeah, you

1542
01:47:10.479 --> 01:47:15.479
know, my wife didn't want to
have kids and you know, in the

1543
01:47:15.680 --> 01:47:19.079
madness of this relationship that it was. So it's like we'll just kind of

1544
01:47:19.159 --> 01:47:23.840
walk you know, everyone through this, but like it was a secret relationship.

1545
01:47:24.720 --> 01:47:28.319
It had to be, you know, because she was technically your supervisor.

1546
01:47:28.520 --> 01:47:30.399
Yeah, exactly. And it's not
you know, that's kind of not

1547
01:47:31.039 --> 01:47:34.479
not kosher in a lot of circles, and you know, and you know,

1548
01:47:34.640 --> 01:47:39.279
it's like it's not like it was
like my ODA team later, you

1549
01:47:39.399 --> 01:47:41.800
know what I mean. It's not
like they're gonna you know, it was

1550
01:47:41.840 --> 01:47:44.840
more of like an administrative role than
anything else. And so it was like

1551
01:47:45.039 --> 01:47:47.359
and there was a lot of promises
made. But here was the thing is

1552
01:47:47.399 --> 01:47:53.239
that it was kind of like a
cat and mouse game. And like I

1553
01:47:53.479 --> 01:47:59.159
never been in a situation where I
had like, you know, an attractive

1554
01:47:59.199 --> 01:48:01.760
female like interested in me and you
know what I mean, like trying to

1555
01:48:01.840 --> 01:48:04.479
chase me. It was always me, you know, I think of like

1556
01:48:04.960 --> 01:48:08.319
how it was the relationship I have
with my wife. I chased her,

1557
01:48:08.840 --> 01:48:11.439
you know what I mean, And
and so to be in this like different

1558
01:48:11.920 --> 01:48:13.920
scenario, I was like, oh, this is really cool, this is

1559
01:48:14.039 --> 01:48:17.359
unique, and so like there was
but the thing about it is that it

1560
01:48:17.479 --> 01:48:19.920
wasn't good for her. It wasn't
good for me. The whole thing was

1561
01:48:19.960 --> 01:48:26.760
based on lust, you know.
And so but it didn't help that I

1562
01:48:26.960 --> 01:48:31.479
worked in a fucking unit with a
bunch of other spies, right, and

1563
01:48:31.640 --> 01:48:39.479
so it's like eventually someone's gonna get
put put it all together. You talk

1564
01:48:39.560 --> 01:48:44.520
about this like triple life that you're
living at this point that like people are

1565
01:48:44.640 --> 01:48:49.920
finding out about this relationship and you're
running these like dis info ops. You

1566
01:48:50.039 --> 01:48:54.239
brought you brought in. It was
like one of your friends from high school

1567
01:48:54.279 --> 01:48:57.439
or something like that I brought in. It was she was one of my

1568
01:48:57.560 --> 01:49:00.239
close friends from Norwich. It was
her sister I brought. I brought her

1569
01:49:00.319 --> 01:49:03.079
in. So so basically the bottom
line, you know, the whole thing

1570
01:49:03.119 --> 01:49:08.000
with the story is one of the
guys at the unit found out I was

1571
01:49:08.039 --> 01:49:12.239
going through divorce. And I came
back from all nice by training in like

1572
01:49:12.359 --> 01:49:17.239
December of twenty nineteen, and I
was like wiped out, exhausted, but

1573
01:49:17.399 --> 01:49:21.399
haven't been laid in a very long
time. And so I was like he

1574
01:49:23.159 --> 01:49:26.560
had a place in Baltimore and he
and he was getting ready to go to

1575
01:49:26.720 --> 01:49:29.680
FTC. So I was like,
all right, hey, he wanted me

1576
01:49:29.800 --> 01:49:31.520
to live there, watch the house, you know, after all to Baltimore.

1577
01:49:31.920 --> 01:49:34.960
Right, It's like right, not, you know, don't leave anything

1578
01:49:35.000 --> 01:49:39.359
in your car, right, you
know what I mean? Like it's you

1579
01:49:39.439 --> 01:49:42.359
know, street smarts, you know, one hundred percent you know, head

1580
01:49:42.399 --> 01:49:45.079
on a swivel, getting it out
of your car, walking through your door

1581
01:49:45.159 --> 01:49:47.520
type of shit. Right, and
and and even though I was in a

1582
01:49:47.560 --> 01:49:51.239
nice neighborhood of Baltimore, the crime
affects everybody there, right, So he's

1583
01:49:51.359 --> 01:49:55.760
like, yeah, you can live
here and then and be cool. And

1584
01:49:55.880 --> 01:50:00.079
I was like all right, sweet
and so I but he ends up like

1585
01:50:00.479 --> 01:50:08.000
being suspect of this relationship. And
so he's got like the nanny cams up

1586
01:50:08.000 --> 01:50:10.640
in his place to see what you're
doing. Yeah, exactly so, but

1587
01:50:10.800 --> 01:50:14.600
like I don't know, I'd always
detach the camera. It's also you know,

1588
01:50:14.760 --> 01:50:17.119
it's some Karen ship Man. Why
do you care? Exactly? Like,

1589
01:50:17.239 --> 01:50:21.600
why are you gonna yuck up?
My yum, why are you gonna

1590
01:50:21.680 --> 01:50:27.000
yuck? It was a good thing
going. You know, I just feel

1591
01:50:27.079 --> 01:50:30.039
like if that was some ship that
happened in group, the sergeant majors would

1592
01:50:30.079 --> 01:50:32.920
pat me on the back. It's
a good job. You're a fucking idiot.

1593
01:50:33.000 --> 01:50:34.920
You have to work on the B
team for a couple of months.

1594
01:50:35.039 --> 01:50:39.600
Yeah, you know, that's exactly
how it go. And it would have

1595
01:50:39.680 --> 01:50:42.920
been like over with right, you
know what I mean, And they would

1596
01:50:42.960 --> 01:50:45.199
have like, you know, the
slap on the wrist type of thing.

1597
01:50:45.279 --> 01:50:47.079
But like, you know, the
stakes are high, so obviously you know,

1598
01:50:47.920 --> 01:50:50.960
I know, for me, it
was like I could do this.

1599
01:50:51.279 --> 01:50:58.720
But so I throw this straightforward deception
off, right. I fly out one

1600
01:50:58.720 --> 01:51:02.000
of my friend's sisters to to play
as her as a girlfriend, as my

1601
01:51:02.119 --> 01:51:08.000
girlfriend Gabriella. And you know,
the story that I gave my roommate was

1602
01:51:08.119 --> 01:51:12.520
that she was a congressional staffer,
which are dim a fucking doesn't in d

1603
01:51:12.680 --> 01:51:16.199
C, right, and so fits
a bill you know, easy cover story.

1604
01:51:16.479 --> 01:51:19.960
But it turns out that this,
you know, my my friend's sister

1605
01:51:20.439 --> 01:51:25.239
actually did work. She worked for
Scott Brown when he was a senator from

1606
01:51:25.279 --> 01:51:29.760
Massachusetts, so she could think speak, the talk everything else. And so

1607
01:51:29.920 --> 01:51:31.560
she lands at bw I. You
know, I fly her out. You

1608
01:51:31.600 --> 01:51:35.439
know, now does she know what
her she knows her cover for status,

1609
01:51:35.560 --> 01:51:42.319
cover for action coming in. So
my my friend informed her what was going

1610
01:51:42.399 --> 01:51:47.840
on, and she's like, I'm
in, like, we'll do whatever it

1611
01:51:47.920 --> 01:51:50.079
takes. Help out Dave, right, you know what I mean? That

1612
01:51:50.279 --> 01:51:54.680
is the coolest. Yeah. And
so she and like, you know,

1613
01:51:55.039 --> 01:51:59.319
true to like real life training and
everything else. Treat your source as well.

1614
01:51:59.640 --> 01:52:02.000
I fly her business class, I
picked her up from I pick her

1615
01:52:02.039 --> 01:52:05.319
up from b w I, and
I'm going fucking full send with this,

1616
01:52:05.680 --> 01:52:11.319
you know, case officer ship and
this is this is the real This is

1617
01:52:11.520 --> 01:52:15.199
like the adult version of my girlfriend
goes to another school. Right, It's

1618
01:52:15.319 --> 01:52:18.840
like she said, another high school. You wouldn't know her, You wouldn't

1619
01:52:18.840 --> 01:52:23.560
know, you would know it really
is it really is. I pick her

1620
01:52:23.680 --> 01:52:25.840
up, I take her to take
her out for a long launch and I

1621
01:52:26.039 --> 01:52:30.960
train her cover, I give her
cover. I you know, I have

1622
01:52:30.119 --> 01:52:36.279
like printouts of what her apartment looks
like, you know, and and we

1623
01:52:36.520 --> 01:52:42.680
go we go full fucking send on
this man, because I'm up against Facebook.

1624
01:52:42.880 --> 01:52:45.840
Facebook in a relationship. No,
no, Facebook, not in a

1625
01:52:45.880 --> 01:52:50.000
relationship, don't even have Facebook.
Okay sorry, it was like, okay,

1626
01:52:50.119 --> 01:52:54.439
no announcements on that, right,
No one in that community I think

1627
01:52:54.520 --> 01:53:00.399
has Facebook at least. Well we'll
admit it, but like we I'm training

1628
01:53:00.439 --> 01:53:02.000
her and cover, right, I'm
giving her. You know, this is

1629
01:53:02.000 --> 01:53:04.800
where we met. These are the
friends that we hung out with, right,

1630
01:53:04.840 --> 01:53:06.279
And I was like, you know, I was out with some other

1631
01:53:06.399 --> 01:53:10.239
gb buddies in DC, right,
which was accurate. You know, I

1632
01:53:10.319 --> 01:53:12.680
hung out with some other g you
know, Green Beret friends that were you

1633
01:53:12.760 --> 01:53:15.479
know, stationed in the area and
stuff like that. And we met at

1634
01:53:15.560 --> 01:53:18.720
Dirty Water, which was a Boston
base bar. I don't know if it's

1635
01:53:18.720 --> 01:53:21.600
still there, but it was on
like I forget the street, but trainer

1636
01:53:21.720 --> 01:53:27.000
on all these things. And so
you know Richard, you know, my

1637
01:53:27.119 --> 01:53:30.439
roommate fresh out of the farm,
fresh out of the fucking farm, right,

1638
01:53:30.960 --> 01:53:34.520
And he's like a grilling her.
Yeah, you go to the kitchen

1639
01:53:35.039 --> 01:53:39.439
and he's like it's like it's like
a cover challenge. Yeah, straight up

1640
01:53:39.479 --> 01:53:43.159
fucking cover challenge. And you know
he starts at the light report. Oh

1641
01:53:43.159 --> 01:53:46.920
would you guys meet, right,
you know, like really met, Yeah,

1642
01:53:47.479 --> 01:53:50.239
and type of thing and he's like, oh, you live. Where

1643
01:53:50.279 --> 01:53:54.880
the hell is she said where we
say she lived? It was Eastern Market,

1644
01:53:55.279 --> 01:53:59.199
you know, like bougie apartment complexes
of the Eastern Market. And he's

1645
01:53:59.239 --> 01:54:02.520
like, oh, really, like
legit was like, describe her place to

1646
01:54:02.600 --> 01:54:05.119
me, right, And I was
like, I'm sitting there in the fucking

1647
01:54:05.199 --> 01:54:09.920
kitchen. I'm like, bro,
what you don't think I don't know what's

1648
01:54:09.960 --> 01:54:13.840
going on right now? And she
just is like okay, but she executes

1649
01:54:13.880 --> 01:54:18.600
beautifully, yeah, And and so
like he's frustrated, you know, with

1650
01:54:19.039 --> 01:54:23.640
like you know, he's frustrated with
the whole thing, like it's not working.

1651
01:54:24.079 --> 01:54:28.520
And so we leave and then you
know, and I remember she was

1652
01:54:28.640 --> 01:54:31.560
like he's a fucking asshole, right, and she's like, you were not

1653
01:54:31.680 --> 01:54:36.279
fucking kidding, and and so I
remember we went out and you know,

1654
01:54:36.439 --> 01:54:39.680
you got to live the cover,
right, So I took her out and

1655
01:54:39.680 --> 01:54:42.520
went out to eat and stuff like
that. And you know, meanwhile,

1656
01:54:42.720 --> 01:54:45.760
you know my Gabriella, right,
the woman I'm seeing in the book,

1657
01:54:46.000 --> 01:54:49.439
right, you know, a woman
I'm seeing at the time, She's like,

1658
01:54:50.159 --> 01:54:55.039
fucking you know, you're cheating,
I mean, right, you know,

1659
01:54:55.560 --> 01:54:58.920
the thing she got like super drunk
and was like texting me and calling

1660
01:54:59.039 --> 01:55:00.920
and I was like, listen,
I'm sleeping on the fucking floor in here,

1661
01:55:01.079 --> 01:55:04.560
all right, Like she gets to
bed, I'm sleeping on the floor.

1662
01:55:04.920 --> 01:55:09.960
It's done, it worked, done, story, but it doesn't end

1663
01:55:10.000 --> 01:55:14.640
there. Yeah. After that,
it was the like the cover is complete

1664
01:55:14.880 --> 01:55:17.079
and then she what did she text
your sergeant major, like a picture of

1665
01:55:17.159 --> 01:55:20.239
the two of you together something like
this. Yeah, it was. It

1666
01:55:20.399 --> 01:55:24.920
was a squadron first sergeant, I
think, right, And I was like,

1667
01:55:25.039 --> 01:55:28.439
oh Jesus fuck, like at a
concert, and it was supposed to

1668
01:55:28.479 --> 01:55:30.760
be. It was supposed to be
like a concert for the victory, like

1669
01:55:30.880 --> 01:55:34.279
we got through this, you know, I'm gonna be out from under her,

1670
01:55:34.640 --> 01:55:38.439
you know, purview. Now I'm
in an operational squadron, not the

1671
01:55:38.479 --> 01:55:44.319
training squadron. And it's like said
done complete, playing works perfectly. And

1672
01:55:44.560 --> 01:55:46.800
I remember in the moment, I
was like I freaked out. I was

1673
01:55:46.840 --> 01:55:49.760
like, fuck, man, this
costs me so much goddamn money to make

1674
01:55:49.800 --> 01:55:54.760
this like off happen. It's all
like I'm dipping into off fun to use

1675
01:55:54.800 --> 01:55:59.600
it. This is all fucking fields
paycheck right right right right? No,

1676
01:56:00.079 --> 01:56:01.680
you know. Meanwhile, my divorce
is in final eyes. So it's like

1677
01:56:02.000 --> 01:56:05.520
you spent seven hundred dollars on what
you know what I mean, like and

1678
01:56:05.760 --> 01:56:12.079
and so and and I remember real
quickly, I you know, I text

1679
01:56:12.159 --> 01:56:14.039
him back and I was like,
oh, hey, man, you know

1680
01:56:14.119 --> 01:56:16.399
I ran in a so and so. You know at this concert I was

1681
01:56:16.479 --> 01:56:19.960
with another chick. Is it going
to be cool? And he was like,

1682
01:56:20.039 --> 01:56:23.039
oh, yeah, man, you're
fine. She likes you. Don't

1683
01:56:23.039 --> 01:56:25.760
worry about it, you know,
because you know, I was like trying

1684
01:56:25.800 --> 01:56:28.880
to play, like play got card, but I was really you know with

1685
01:56:29.039 --> 01:56:31.920
her. But he eventually figured it
out, you know, because of the

1686
01:56:31.960 --> 01:56:36.159
tubbleware and the fridge. And I'm
not going to spoil it too much for

1687
01:56:36.239 --> 01:56:39.279
the for the audience with the book, but I'm taking it through it.

1688
01:56:39.359 --> 01:56:44.920
But more importantly, other than the
hilarity of this situation, was like the

1689
01:56:45.000 --> 01:56:47.079
mental dialogue that was going on.
Yeah, you know, because for me,

1690
01:56:47.239 --> 01:56:50.159
it was like the stress of that
the stress, you know, the

1691
01:56:50.439 --> 01:56:57.600
stress of the divorce still was still
was there right the you know, Gabriella,

1692
01:56:57.760 --> 01:57:00.720
you know, you know my ex
girlfriend, you know obviously now,

1693
01:57:00.840 --> 01:57:05.319
but like very intense human being,
you know, a version of relationship thing

1694
01:57:05.399 --> 01:57:10.159
I've never experienced, was very ill
prepared for, let me tell you that.

1695
01:57:10.760 --> 01:57:14.920
And no amount of intelligence training is
going to prepare you for fucking that,

1696
01:57:15.239 --> 01:57:20.159
right, you know. And and
so I end up I remember,

1697
01:57:21.399 --> 01:57:26.760
you know, they're like, I'm
still dealing with my divorce, right and

1698
01:57:27.439 --> 01:57:30.960
it's still not going away. You
had to pay a substantial dowry to escape

1699
01:57:31.960 --> 01:57:35.600
bad marriage you don't want to be
in, exactly, and so like I

1700
01:57:36.159 --> 01:57:40.439
literally, you know, jump through
all these hoops, jump through all these

1701
01:57:40.479 --> 01:57:44.760
hoops to you know, thank you, thank you, jump through all these

1702
01:57:44.800 --> 01:57:48.920
hoops to just make this relationship work
right out of love right right, which

1703
01:57:49.800 --> 01:57:53.560
was really just a formal lust.
Well you know what I mean, life

1704
01:57:53.600 --> 01:57:58.399
feels exactly the same as love for
two years, like you can't tell the

1705
01:57:58.479 --> 01:58:02.199
two a part. And I thank
you for that because you know, I

1706
01:58:02.239 --> 01:58:05.000
would have never known, you know, I would have never known. And

1707
01:58:05.199 --> 01:58:08.079
and like, you know, for
me, I'm like, this is the

1708
01:58:08.159 --> 01:58:10.840
one, right, you know,
wants to have my kids all this other

1709
01:58:10.880 --> 01:58:15.560
stuff, right, So it's like
intensely tense, genuine, you know,

1710
01:58:15.840 --> 01:58:19.079
intensely tense relationship, but this divorce
is gone on the background, yeah,

1711
01:58:19.079 --> 01:58:25.079
and it's pressuring me and everything else
and so she did not know. At

1712
01:58:25.119 --> 01:58:27.960
this point, I learned, I'm
not going to tell her about any issues

1713
01:58:28.079 --> 01:58:31.720
cover wise with the relationship, right
the figuring out with the tubblewear and shit

1714
01:58:31.840 --> 01:58:38.720
like that. So they it was
like after Labor Day weekend, I get

1715
01:58:38.760 --> 01:58:41.520
a call from the squad, you
know, the the unit sergeant major.

1716
01:58:41.560 --> 01:58:45.079
They pull me in the office and
they're like, hey, we need you

1717
01:58:45.079 --> 01:58:46.319
to go to fucking Iraq. We
need you to go to Iraq and Syria

1718
01:58:46.359 --> 01:58:49.199
in thirty days. And I was
like humhm, Like, you know I

1719
01:58:49.279 --> 01:58:53.279
had plans with this woman, right, you know, I was slated to

1720
01:58:53.319 --> 01:58:56.920
go the next year. You know, when you when you're working in these

1721
01:58:57.039 --> 01:59:00.760
units, you know, you're they
take your bog to wells. Dwell time

1722
01:59:00.840 --> 01:59:03.079
is basically like, you know,
amount of time deployed, amount of time

1723
01:59:03.119 --> 01:59:06.399
of training, you know, and
you know they manage it properly. But

1724
01:59:06.439 --> 01:59:10.680
they were like, they wanted to
send me right away because they wanted to

1725
01:59:10.720 --> 01:59:15.880
send the green Ray down range.
And there was an entire fucking class of

1726
01:59:15.960 --> 01:59:18.439
people ahead of me that graduated that
haven't even been operationally yet, right,

1727
01:59:18.600 --> 01:59:25.520
And I was kind of like,
but I had the pressure of this relationship

1728
01:59:26.039 --> 01:59:29.079
and I said, you know,
in this split seconds, you know,

1729
01:59:29.159 --> 01:59:31.359
and I had the divorce still on
my thing. I still had to deal

1730
01:59:31.399 --> 01:59:33.880
with the divorce. And I looked
at him and I said, I was

1731
01:59:33.960 --> 01:59:38.880
like, hey, I was like, oh go, but I should be

1732
01:59:38.960 --> 01:59:42.079
your last option. I was like, I have a divorce, I have

1733
01:59:42.159 --> 01:59:45.880
a court date, and if I
miss this court date, I am fucked

1734
01:59:46.239 --> 01:59:49.199
right, And you know, I
explained it to it. And Sergeant Major

1735
01:59:51.359 --> 01:59:56.880
wasn't a very experienced guy, you
know, operationally wise, but also too

1736
01:59:56.920 --> 02:00:01.520
It's like you would think in this
unit of spies, you'd have a higher

1737
02:00:01.640 --> 02:00:06.039
level of EQ emotional emotional intelligence among
everybody else. And he was just like,

1738
02:00:08.159 --> 02:00:11.399
I've been through a divorce. It's
not that bad, right, And

1739
02:00:11.479 --> 02:00:15.039
I'm kind of like, uh,
you don't really know all the you know,

1740
02:00:15.199 --> 02:00:17.520
details of it, right, doesn't
mean and everybody goes through shit differently,

1741
02:00:17.920 --> 02:00:20.880
but you know, I said,
I was like, you know,

1742
02:00:21.000 --> 02:00:25.520
I'll go, but I'll be the
last choice. And then you know,

1743
02:00:25.680 --> 02:00:29.479
my girlfriend at the time loses her
fucking mind, right, because she's in

1744
02:00:29.600 --> 02:00:32.399
the leadership circle. She hears all
the shit and and they're like, yeah,

1745
02:00:32.640 --> 02:00:36.399
like she heard basically he said yes, right, and and don't get

1746
02:00:36.439 --> 02:00:40.680
me wrong, is that Green Berets
are never gonna fucking say no to it's

1747
02:00:40.680 --> 02:00:44.720
to port right, right. I
would never dishonor myself, you know what

1748
02:00:44.800 --> 02:00:49.399
I mean? And and that the
mission is too important. The mission is

1749
02:00:49.439 --> 02:00:55.640
too fucking important, right. But
also though some time and distance between me

1750
02:00:55.640 --> 02:01:00.720
and her to give some space to
the snoops also not a bad option.

1751
02:01:01.479 --> 02:01:09.279
But I remember she was fighting with
me, and you know, I never

1752
02:01:09.399 --> 02:01:13.600
really was one to fight with a
significant other. And I just wasn't fucking

1753
02:01:13.640 --> 02:01:17.000
equipped to do that. I didn't
have the equipment and dynamic to do it.

1754
02:01:17.119 --> 02:01:19.960
And there was a lot of gaslighting, a lot of shit like that,

1755
02:01:20.159 --> 02:01:24.000
you know, stuff I never experienced
before, and I just didn't know

1756
02:01:24.039 --> 02:01:27.279
how to deal with it. And
I remember I was in the literal fucking

1757
02:01:27.319 --> 02:01:30.640
depths of my spare on my I
moved out of the apartment in Baltimore and

1758
02:01:30.760 --> 02:01:33.760
moved to DC. I go there, right, I go to DC to

1759
02:01:33.840 --> 02:01:40.239
be close to her, and and
I just like she hates me. I'm

1760
02:01:40.279 --> 02:01:45.199
fucking deploying and I still don't have
a finalized divorce. I am literally fucked

1761
02:01:45.800 --> 02:01:51.039
right, And there was those internal
dialogues from when I was in spy school

1762
02:01:51.600 --> 02:01:58.720
of feeling like not being able to
win, absolutely fucking hopeless, can't win.

1763
02:01:59.239 --> 02:02:02.319
No one's in my corner. Yeah, and not even her, not

1764
02:02:02.479 --> 02:02:08.119
even the woman I love, right, And it was like soul crushing because

1765
02:02:08.359 --> 02:02:11.920
at this point, I've made so
many sacrifices for others, you know,

1766
02:02:12.279 --> 02:02:15.439
in my mind, you know,
took the job for my ex wife to

1767
02:02:15.439 --> 02:02:17.000
start a family. Didn't work,
she didn't want to have a family.

1768
02:02:17.079 --> 02:02:19.520
Okay, cool, see you later. Right now, I'm with this woman,

1769
02:02:20.000 --> 02:02:25.479
right, making all the sacrifices for
and again doesn't appreciate them, and

1770
02:02:25.520 --> 02:02:31.039
stuff like that. So I remember
a conversation with my mother got me up

1771
02:02:31.079 --> 02:02:33.079
off the floor and I called my
lawyer. I was like, I don't

1772
02:02:33.079 --> 02:02:38.479
fucking care, let's just settle.
And it cost me ninety fucking grand ah,

1773
02:02:38.600 --> 02:02:45.000
my goddamn money. Yeah. And
then about two weeks later, I

1774
02:02:45.000 --> 02:02:48.880
showed up to Iraq ready to fucking
go. Yeah, broke broke as a

1775
02:02:48.960 --> 02:02:53.199
joke. I was still with Gabriella
at the time, and it was like,

1776
02:02:54.199 --> 02:03:00.159
but at this point, how much
the back in fourth of the relationship

1777
02:03:00.399 --> 02:03:03.680
was. I was very insecure about
it, you know what I mean.

1778
02:03:03.760 --> 02:03:06.960
It wasn't like it wasn't a place
of stability. It wasn't a place of

1779
02:03:08.000 --> 02:03:15.000
stability. But like you know,
we talk about like a GB move here,

1780
02:03:15.159 --> 02:03:17.159
I would imagine, you know,
but before I left for that deployment,

1781
02:03:18.199 --> 02:03:25.199
we lost somebody you know, on
that deployment before and there was a

1782
02:03:25.319 --> 02:03:30.239
chance I could die. But you
know, for me, like you know,

1783
02:03:31.000 --> 02:03:34.560
guys like us were like, you
know, risk, We're okay with

1784
02:03:34.640 --> 02:03:38.239
the high amount of danger. You
know, when it's your time, it's

1785
02:03:38.279 --> 02:03:40.600
your time. And that's kind of
like an old saying, like you don't

1786
02:03:40.640 --> 02:03:44.079
think about the dangers. You just
say, hey, it's gonna happen,

1787
02:03:44.079 --> 02:03:45.319
it's gonna happen, it's my time, it's my time, right, and

1788
02:03:45.399 --> 02:03:48.479
you think about this is how I'm
gonna act in this moment, like all

1789
02:03:48.560 --> 02:03:55.800
those operator traits. And but she
said to me before I left, she

1790
02:03:55.840 --> 02:03:58.640
would have my kids if anything happened
to me. So he went to a

1791
02:03:58.720 --> 02:04:02.600
sperm bank and I made a donation
in her name. So this is this

1792
02:04:02.840 --> 02:04:08.560
is the status of that relationship when
I leave Iraq right right for Iraq right,

1793
02:04:08.640 --> 02:04:14.399
And it was like it's a total
mindfulg yeah right, And so you

1794
02:04:14.479 --> 02:04:17.640
know I'm I'm I'm in Iraq,
and you know, I'm working with a

1795
02:04:17.800 --> 02:04:24.039
task force that our sole job is
to kill capture Isis and al Qada leadership.

1796
02:04:24.479 --> 02:04:28.000
And you know, my job was
produced intelligence to make that shit happen,

1797
02:04:28.279 --> 02:04:32.560
right, And and it was awesome. We had a good fucking time.

1798
02:04:32.680 --> 02:04:35.039
Yeah, yeah, tell us about
that. You want to talk about

1799
02:04:35.920 --> 02:04:40.479
what we talked about earlier. A
bunch of fucking goddamn criminals, you know,

1800
02:04:40.800 --> 02:04:45.199
like just hood Rat's doing hood rat
ship. Yeah, and like that

1801
02:04:45.439 --> 02:04:47.600
was that was it. I get
off the plane, they hand me four

1802
02:04:47.680 --> 02:04:51.479
hundred thousand dollars cash. They say, spend this how you need? Just

1803
02:04:51.560 --> 02:04:54.920
get shipped done? And I was
like what right. I was like,

1804
02:04:55.319 --> 02:04:57.600
holy shit, I'm going to cut
her. I'll see you guys in a

1805
02:04:57.600 --> 02:05:03.680
while. Yeah, yeah, exactly
right, And uh you know, and

1806
02:05:03.800 --> 02:05:06.439
it was like, you know,
for the first time in my career,

1807
02:05:06.479 --> 02:05:10.239
I was like, I'm in the
varsity league now, yeah, you know,

1808
02:05:10.720 --> 02:05:15.199
going after abousaiaf Like granted, important, working with the Filipinos and their

1809
02:05:15.199 --> 02:05:19.199
security important. But like you said
earlier, is that I grew up in

1810
02:05:19.239 --> 02:05:24.399
a period of g watt where all
the fight that mattered was in Afghanistan or

1811
02:05:24.439 --> 02:05:28.199
Iraq, right, And if you
didn't do that, then you know,

1812
02:05:28.319 --> 02:05:30.159
you didn't really earn your chops,
right, so to speak. So you

1813
02:05:30.239 --> 02:05:33.840
know, for me, it was
like, fucking finally I get to be

1814
02:05:33.960 --> 02:05:38.720
unleashed, yeah, right, you
know, and I was like, just

1815
02:05:39.359 --> 02:05:41.760
you know, not only I was
dealing with like all these emotions, but

1816
02:05:41.840 --> 02:05:44.399
I was gonna fucking take it out
on the goddamn enemy, right, you

1817
02:05:44.520 --> 02:05:47.479
know. Yeah, And so you
know, I hit the ground running,

1818
02:05:48.119 --> 02:05:54.359
hit the fucking ground running, and
eighteen hour work days longer than that,

1819
02:05:55.000 --> 02:05:59.000
sometimes rolling from one OP three hours
of sleep, rolling into a second OP.

1820
02:06:00.920 --> 02:06:03.479
It didn't matter everything that we were
doing. You know, when you

1821
02:06:03.720 --> 02:06:09.640
work in counter terrorism, human intelligence
operations or just counter terrorism intelligent operations,

1822
02:06:09.800 --> 02:06:13.199
you have to move at the speed
of counter terrorism. That's fucking relentless.

1823
02:06:13.279 --> 02:06:15.920
Man. You don't know how long
this guy is gonna hang out at this

1824
02:06:16.039 --> 02:06:20.199
location for, right, And we
either either a GM that motherfucker with the

1825
02:06:20.239 --> 02:06:25.119
one to fourteen, or we send
out a raid force, right, or

1826
02:06:25.159 --> 02:06:30.239
a combination of bull who knows gun
run whatever? Right, And and so

1827
02:06:30.439 --> 02:06:33.760
it was you know, for me, it was exhilarating. But you know,

1828
02:06:33.880 --> 02:06:41.319
when I it was also coming from
first Crew, the bougiest deployment I've

1829
02:06:42.399 --> 02:06:46.800
right, I had my own chew, which is like a little like they

1830
02:06:46.880 --> 02:06:50.039
basically take us half a shipping container, cut it in half, put an

1831
02:06:50.039 --> 02:06:54.640
air conditioning unit in a bed,
and I was like, this is sick.

1832
02:06:54.800 --> 02:06:58.800
Yeah right, you know, and
didn't have to worry about deng gay

1833
02:06:58.840 --> 02:07:01.319
and malaria. You know, three
hots. It was like three hots and

1834
02:07:01.359 --> 02:07:04.720
a cot man. And in a
lot of the times, in most situations

1835
02:07:04.800 --> 02:07:08.520
I was in in Southeast Asia,
I was like, you got to figure

1836
02:07:08.560 --> 02:07:12.439
out food on your own. You're
out on a out in the local,

1837
02:07:12.840 --> 02:07:15.239
you know, figuring it out.
And you know, the fact I had

1838
02:07:15.319 --> 02:07:17.359
like three hots and a cot and
you know we were going out, you

1839
02:07:17.439 --> 02:07:21.560
know, outside doing clandestine operations you
know here, there and everywhere. But

1840
02:07:21.840 --> 02:07:27.960
like the fact I had that like
stability allowed me to really focus on just

1841
02:07:28.119 --> 02:07:33.560
work. Whereas like being on an
Operational Attachment Alpha SF team in Southeast Asia,

1842
02:07:33.560 --> 02:07:35.359
you got to do all that ship
on your own. You know,

1843
02:07:35.479 --> 02:07:42.640
logistics, every fucking everything is on
the team on the ODA and a lot

1844
02:07:42.640 --> 02:07:44.720
of that they take all that burden
off of you, so you just focus

1845
02:07:44.760 --> 02:07:47.720
on your job. That did you
miss that though. Did you miss like

1846
02:07:47.960 --> 02:07:54.239
being your own sort of internal intelligence, you know, creating the entire intel

1847
02:07:54.319 --> 02:07:59.319
cycle, the entire f F three, like having all that for you?

1848
02:07:59.520 --> 02:08:01.680
Did you miss that at all?
I definitely did. And the fact that,

1849
02:08:03.000 --> 02:08:05.640
like I had so much experience with
it showing up there and it was

1850
02:08:05.840 --> 02:08:13.680
like understanding how intel drives ops and
knowing that, and and I was kind

1851
02:08:13.720 --> 02:08:16.960
of extra dangerous in that. In
that regard, I think of, like

1852
02:08:16.199 --> 02:08:18.600
I don't want to get too far
ahead as some of these stories, but

1853
02:08:20.760 --> 02:08:22.960
you know, I think about like
the you know, the Christmas Day raid

1854
02:08:24.039 --> 02:08:26.520
we were trying to do, and
uh, you know I was tracking this

1855
02:08:26.760 --> 02:08:33.119
icist guy and helping this SF team
track the sisist guy and you know,

1856
02:08:33.199 --> 02:08:35.600
the guy met trigger right, so, which was like basically we had a

1857
02:08:35.640 --> 02:08:39.840
BdL, you know, two forms
of intelligence disciplines confirming that this guy was

1858
02:08:39.880 --> 02:08:45.039
at this location. And you know, I'm in my depths of despair right

1859
02:08:45.079 --> 02:08:50.159
at this point, and you know, for me, I just wanted to

1860
02:08:50.199 --> 02:08:56.760
get my gun on right, yeah, and get out the door and and

1861
02:08:56.920 --> 02:09:01.840
fucking just do a fucking raid,
right and just let go of everything right,

1862
02:09:01.439 --> 02:09:09.079
and the team I was working with, I go I call over there,

1863
02:09:09.319 --> 02:09:11.880
and I'm like, hey man,
and at this point my reputation over

1864
02:09:11.960 --> 02:09:15.920
there. Every time I showed up, shit would start spinning up. And

1865
02:09:16.000 --> 02:09:18.079
it was like I was doing my
own ops. And you know one of

1866
02:09:18.119 --> 02:09:22.960
the characters in the book, Arman, who I love dearly, you know,

1867
02:09:22.119 --> 02:09:26.119
he was over there too doing ops, and I would support his ops.

1868
02:09:26.119 --> 02:09:30.039
He'd support my operations sometimes, you
know, either the security wingman,

1869
02:09:30.319 --> 02:09:33.720
you know type type of stuff like
that, they'd be running point on,

1870
02:09:33.880 --> 02:09:37.000
you know, source operations, staircase. But then like I'm doing the surmails

1871
02:09:37.000 --> 02:09:39.159
detection und for ye yeah, you
know he's in the back of the car,

1872
02:09:39.239 --> 02:09:43.279
yeah yeah or whatever, right,
And so but I get this team

1873
02:09:43.359 --> 02:09:48.720
all spun up, and I'm like, hey, how about this Christmas Day

1874
02:09:48.920 --> 02:09:54.439
raid. No one's expecting us on
Christmas. George Washington crossed the Delaware to

1875
02:09:54.560 --> 02:10:00.439
kill the British on Christmas. We're
going to cross Iraq to kill isis right.

1876
02:10:00.880 --> 02:10:03.880
And you had guys who are like, yeah, fuck yeah, right,

1877
02:10:05.000 --> 02:10:07.039
like let's fucking go dude, right, and you know we had it

1878
02:10:07.159 --> 02:10:11.640
was just some ice a shithead,
right, And it was like and I

1879
02:10:11.720 --> 02:10:13.199
got everybody riled up, and we're
gonna like you know, roll in with

1880
02:10:13.279 --> 02:10:16.800
the thirty man raid force on like
you know, two or three guys,

1881
02:10:16.880 --> 02:10:22.159
and it's staying a fucking chance,
right, and so you know the concept

1882
02:10:22.199 --> 02:10:26.000
of operations goes up and they're like, all right, uh, you know

1883
02:10:26.600 --> 02:10:28.439
this is why you know. The
response was, this is why I love

1884
02:10:28.520 --> 02:10:33.000
doing this job because I work with
fine gentlemen like you. But for Jesus

1885
02:10:33.119 --> 02:10:35.000
Christ, guys, call your fucking
wives. It's Christmas, like, you

1886
02:10:35.079 --> 02:10:37.880
know what I mean, you're not
going out and we're like, oh shit.

1887
02:10:39.239 --> 02:10:41.479
You know, but the backstory to
that, and I'm sure you got

1888
02:10:41.560 --> 02:10:46.960
a question for that, you know, well, I mean no, I

1889
02:10:46.039 --> 02:10:50.560
mean, if there's something else you
wanted to elaborate on, I want to.

1890
02:10:50.840 --> 02:10:52.880
I mean, there's a big the
big mish that comes up. But

1891
02:10:54.039 --> 02:10:58.920
before that, I think you know, you have your your brush with a

1892
02:10:58.079 --> 02:11:01.439
very dark place that I mean,
I think we should talk about because that's

1893
02:11:01.560 --> 02:11:07.720
really the topic of your book.
How do that culminate? I mean,

1894
02:11:07.039 --> 02:11:09.680
you know, quite frankly, like
you came within a cunt here, right

1895
02:11:11.159 --> 02:11:15.840
basically, yeah, and so it's
so let me build up to that and

1896
02:11:15.880 --> 02:11:18.000
thank you for bringing me back there. You know, you know when you

1897
02:11:18.039 --> 02:11:20.319
have a TBI, You're like like
all over the fucking place, you know

1898
02:11:20.359 --> 02:11:24.319
what I mean. And everyone used
to have a jack in their pocket for

1899
02:11:24.399 --> 02:11:30.119
those times. Honestly, Yeah,
cattle prod me. You know, I

1900
02:11:30.159 --> 02:11:35.239
will provide that role. Yeah,
So you know, we're rolling into Christmas

1901
02:11:35.840 --> 02:11:41.800
at this point. The relationship with
Gabriella is like I feel like I'm on

1902
02:11:41.880 --> 02:11:45.159
ice, right, you know,
a lot of the love that I'm trying

1903
02:11:45.199 --> 02:11:48.119
to give, the same things that
I did with my ex wife, right,

1904
02:11:48.319 --> 02:11:52.479
all these things just simply wasn't being
reciprocated. Yeah, And so for

1905
02:11:52.640 --> 02:11:54.279
me, I'm like, you know, not only I was a kicked puppy

1906
02:11:56.000 --> 02:11:58.880
going into this deployment, right,
but it was like all those internal,

1907
02:12:00.279 --> 02:12:05.560
like raw internal dialogues of like,
fuck, she's gonna fucking I know she's

1908
02:12:05.560 --> 02:12:07.119
gonna break up with me, right, I know, right, And like

1909
02:12:07.239 --> 02:12:13.560
I made all these sacrifices, you
know, and and it's like I keep

1910
02:12:13.640 --> 02:12:16.520
saying to myself, like I can't
fucking win, you know, I just

1911
02:12:16.600 --> 02:12:18.880
want to fucking have a family.
I want to do this. I'm gonna

1912
02:12:18.920 --> 02:12:24.560
fucking rush man, right because it
didn't work out with my ex wife,

1913
02:12:24.800 --> 02:12:33.560
right, So I all these these
issues, these internal dialogues, like especially

1914
02:12:33.680 --> 02:12:37.600
the thing I can't win, and
that a lot of self hate. What

1915
02:12:37.720 --> 02:12:39.800
did I do wrong? What could
I have done better? How could I

1916
02:12:39.920 --> 02:12:43.520
have been a more? What am
I doing wrong? What am I doing

1917
02:12:43.640 --> 02:12:48.880
wrong? Yeah? I never looked
at the other way. I looked in.

1918
02:12:48.159 --> 02:12:52.600
I constantly was looking internally to be
like how did I fuck up?

1919
02:12:52.159 --> 02:12:58.399
Right? And and so it's like
about a week and a half, two

1920
02:12:58.399 --> 02:13:03.840
weeks before Christmas, I think she
gives me. She calls me and she's

1921
02:13:03.880 --> 02:13:11.800
out shopping somewhere and not reciprocating text
messages, not reciprocating you know, things

1922
02:13:11.880 --> 02:13:13.960
like that, like you know,
my my shoe or my you know,

1923
02:13:15.079 --> 02:13:18.439
my little apartment, tiny apartment,
you're dumpster housing contained, dumpster housing container.

1924
02:13:18.800 --> 02:13:24.000
The rich Carlton, I would say, of of deployments, right,

1925
02:13:24.079 --> 02:13:26.520
the ritch call of deployments for me. You know I had pictures of her.

1926
02:13:26.840 --> 02:13:31.920
You know it's just her us,
right, guns, grenades, you

1927
02:13:33.000 --> 02:13:37.399
know, radios, Yeah, fucking
nag stacked high shit like that, my

1928
02:13:37.520 --> 02:13:41.760
kit, everything else, right,
And and then that was that was my

1929
02:13:41.920 --> 02:13:48.880
purpose, That was my purpose on
that deployment. And I remember she calls

1930
02:13:48.960 --> 02:13:52.960
me, she says, I don't
see where this is where we're gonna be.

1931
02:13:52.239 --> 02:13:56.960
I don't see where this is,
which is so which is so insane

1932
02:13:56.319 --> 02:14:03.239
because you're on a deployment. You
were relationship has definitely has made zero movement

1933
02:14:03.359 --> 02:14:09.960
forwards or backwards while you're on deployment. But she's in her head like she's

1934
02:14:09.000 --> 02:14:16.319
creating this whole thing thing I do
not even know. I don't I don't

1935
02:14:16.399 --> 02:14:20.680
even really fully understand it. But
the thing that fucking killed me was that

1936
02:14:20.880 --> 02:14:26.039
I could hear Christmas music in the
background. It was like, you know,

1937
02:14:26.159 --> 02:14:30.960
you could call me, you know, from your apartment, yeah whatever,

1938
02:14:31.439 --> 02:14:35.840
but it was like done out in
public, talk to you later.

1939
02:14:37.520 --> 02:14:43.039
And so I go. You know, green Berets are never arms sisters away

1940
02:14:43.079 --> 02:14:48.000
from their weapon, fucking fact.
And you know I had my you know,

1941
02:14:48.119 --> 02:14:52.600
my pistol was right there in my
nightstand. And here I am,

1942
02:14:54.439 --> 02:15:00.600
all these internal dialogues overwhelming me,
overwhelming me at once. Yeah, I

1943
02:15:00.720 --> 02:15:03.840
can't win. No one will love
me. How the fuck am I?

1944
02:15:03.520 --> 02:15:07.319
No one's gonna take me. I
just wanted a family. All I wanted

1945
02:15:07.319 --> 02:15:11.359
to do is be happy. I
did everything right in my life. I

1946
02:15:11.479 --> 02:15:16.640
did right by this, I did
right by that. And then there was

1947
02:15:16.720 --> 02:15:24.439
a whisper just fucking ended, just
fucking ended. Dude, You're never gonna

1948
02:15:24.520 --> 02:15:30.279
win. You're never gonna win,
right. And I sat there, and

1949
02:15:30.279 --> 02:15:33.760
I don't know how long I sat
there, but I stared at my pistol,

1950
02:15:33.319 --> 02:15:37.439
and I thought how I was gonna
do it. I didn't think about

1951
02:15:37.520 --> 02:15:43.880
anything else, right, And you
know this isn't in the book, right,

1952
02:15:45.079 --> 02:15:50.399
But I don't know what happened.
There was a fucking presence in that

1953
02:15:50.520 --> 02:15:54.159
room though, whether it was my
grandfather, you know, higher power,

1954
02:15:54.640 --> 02:16:01.840
Jesus, God, whatever, but
I could feel it. I could feel

1955
02:16:01.880 --> 02:16:07.479
that, and it was like and
I remember I said to myself in that

1956
02:16:07.560 --> 02:16:09.560
moment, I felt that presence and
I was crying, and I said,

1957
02:16:11.439 --> 02:16:16.600
all I have is the mission.
All I have is the fucking mission,

1958
02:16:16.720 --> 02:16:24.119
dude. That's all I have now. And I remember I pushed my pistol

1959
02:16:24.119 --> 02:16:28.359
away and I said, I have
to go to the fucking gym. I

1960
02:16:28.479 --> 02:16:30.800
have to go to the fucking gym. I have to go to the fucking

1961
02:16:30.880 --> 02:16:33.879
gym. And I went to the
little gym that they had for Sarah,

1962
02:16:35.040 --> 02:16:37.959
and I think it was like probably
three four o'clock in the morning, and

1963
02:16:39.040 --> 02:16:43.840
I proceeded to fucking slay myself till
chow opened up at seven point thirty for

1964
02:16:43.920 --> 02:16:48.040
breakfast, which I never made because
I was always sleeping till noon, you

1965
02:16:48.120 --> 02:16:52.520
know, because I was up all
night. Isn't it interesting too that you're

1966
02:16:52.639 --> 02:16:58.000
operating at such a high level,
you know, professionally, you know,

1967
02:16:58.079 --> 02:17:01.360
the pinnacle of your military career,
really, while your personal life is just

1968
02:17:01.559 --> 02:17:09.600
a disaster, complete and utter fucking
disaster. And the thing about being in

1969
02:17:09.639 --> 02:17:13.479
the military is that you're always in
a location. You're away from things that

1970
02:17:13.600 --> 02:17:18.520
make you strong. You're away from
your family, You're away from familiar locations,

1971
02:17:18.559 --> 02:17:20.719
you're away from You're always forced to
learn make new friends. You're always

1972
02:17:20.760 --> 02:17:24.959
forced to, you know, make
these new relationships every couple of years that

1973
02:17:24.040 --> 02:17:28.360
you PCs et cetera. Right,
I was away from the strength of the

1974
02:17:28.479 --> 02:17:31.959
ODA, right because I know if
I was going through the ship on my

1975
02:17:33.120 --> 02:17:37.280
ODA back in Oki, fucking Ikey
Mo Love your brother and my buddy Johnny

1976
02:17:37.319 --> 02:17:41.559
would have made me sleep in their
fucking basement and bang paychecks away to crawl

1977
02:17:41.639 --> 02:17:45.719
myself out of financial ruin. Yeah, and I also would have had a

1978
02:17:45.760 --> 02:17:48.719
sergeant major that would be like,
hey, man, Listen, I've been

1979
02:17:48.799 --> 02:17:52.479
through this ship. You're gonna be
fine. But here's what we're gonna do

1980
02:17:52.559 --> 02:17:54.920
for you. You know what I
mean, Because every starge major has been

1981
02:17:54.959 --> 02:18:00.440
through that literally literally you know.
Yeah, I mean I think I honestly,

1982
02:18:00.799 --> 02:18:03.000
honestly, I think it's one of
the requirements to becoming a sergeant major.

1983
02:18:03.799 --> 02:18:07.840
If not, it should be.
Yeah, definitely, definitely. It

1984
02:18:07.920 --> 02:18:09.680
makes you. It makes you way
more personable. Yeah, you know what

1985
02:18:09.760 --> 02:18:13.639
I mean. And it's a humbling
experience, that's the thing is. And

1986
02:18:13.920 --> 02:18:18.920
because because even though you were around
solid dudes who were bros, they weren't.

1987
02:18:20.079 --> 02:18:22.600
They weren't your bros, you know
you. They were guys who you

1988
02:18:22.680 --> 02:18:28.280
got along with and guys who had
the same mentality, but they weren't guys

1989
02:18:28.399 --> 02:18:31.959
that you were comfortable feeling vulnerable with. Guys who would be like, you

1990
02:18:31.079 --> 02:18:35.319
know, maybe they tease you about
it to give you some shit about it,

1991
02:18:35.399 --> 02:18:37.520
but also in a very loving way
and a very like you know,

1992
02:18:37.959 --> 02:18:43.680
but yeah, but at that time, it's like you the mission is priority

1993
02:18:43.799 --> 02:18:48.440
right right. So and this is
where we get into the the sweet sweet

1994
02:18:48.520 --> 02:18:52.520
mish, the big mish, the
big mish. And so I'm in the

1995
02:18:52.600 --> 02:18:56.520
death of my despair. Right,
I go to breakfast, I am not

1996
02:18:56.719 --> 02:18:58.959
going back to my room, and
I just throw myself into fucking work,

1997
02:19:00.600 --> 02:19:05.680
right quint essentially running for myself again, right right there is really you're on

1998
02:19:05.760 --> 02:19:09.280
a deployment. There's nothing you can
do. The mission is all I have.

1999
02:19:09.879 --> 02:19:11.959
Go fucking all in, dude,
And and that you know that,

2000
02:19:11.079 --> 02:19:15.440
and that can become very pure in
its own way, that if you just

2001
02:19:15.559 --> 02:19:18.920
focus on the mission, everything else
can disappear. Like it doesn't get better.

2002
02:19:20.319 --> 02:19:22.559
It does not, but but it
can. It can you can like

2003
02:19:24.040 --> 02:19:26.879
put it off for a lot.
And that's exactly what it is. And

2004
02:19:26.959 --> 02:19:28.239
we'll kind of get in that later. But like, you know, the

2005
02:19:30.079 --> 02:19:33.639
the mission, I walk in,
you know, people wake up around like

2006
02:19:33.760 --> 02:19:37.280
ten or twelve, right, and
people floating into our little tiny office.

2007
02:19:37.399 --> 02:19:41.440
It's just you know, this little
dentist spies doing doing doing the work that

2008
02:19:41.520 --> 02:19:45.920
we were doing. And they're like, hey, Dave, you know,

2009
02:19:46.360 --> 02:19:48.959
come on in. Right. I'm
talking to one of the senior leaders and

2010
02:19:50.079 --> 02:19:52.959
he's like, I need you to
drop everything what you're fucking doing. I

2011
02:19:52.040 --> 02:19:54.959
was like what, I'm like,
you know, I'm working on strategic shit.

2012
02:19:56.040 --> 02:19:58.719
I'm working on you know, the
ship for you know, count terrorism

2013
02:19:58.760 --> 02:20:01.799
stuff. Yeah, I'm like fucking
all over the map. Man. I

2014
02:20:01.959 --> 02:20:05.239
was like falling that icis target for
that fucking you know those guys and you

2015
02:20:05.319 --> 02:20:09.000
know, doing doing you know,
million irons in the fire, like I

2016
02:20:09.079 --> 02:20:13.799
talked about earlier, earlier in the
show, right, and and I was

2017
02:20:13.879 --> 02:20:16.840
like, well, what the fuck
do you want me to do? What

2018
02:20:16.920 --> 02:20:20.200
am I doing? He's like,
trust me, dude, you want to

2019
02:20:20.239 --> 02:20:24.559
work on this? And I was
like, oh, okay, cool.

2020
02:20:26.040 --> 02:20:28.360
Now at this point we didn't even
talk about this, but I had a

2021
02:20:28.440 --> 02:20:33.239
tiny piece of bag daddy, very
very very small piece. All the credit

2022
02:20:33.280 --> 02:20:35.879
goes to the fucking guys that did
the raid and the people that found him.

2023
02:20:35.159 --> 02:20:39.040
All I really was like a second
set of eyes, you know,

2024
02:20:39.200 --> 02:20:41.719
ope, operational preparation environment, you
know, type of type of shit.

2025
02:20:41.959 --> 02:20:46.559
That was it. But people were
like, oh wow, you know the

2026
02:20:46.600 --> 02:20:48.799
people I was working with, like
he worked on Bad Gatty, And I

2027
02:20:48.879 --> 02:20:50.639
was like I didn't really you know
what I mean, Like, yeah,

2028
02:20:50.719 --> 02:20:52.440
all right, you know, I
wasn't a dude that was like did the

2029
02:20:52.479 --> 02:20:54.719
fucking raid, you know what I
mean? Like, I wasn't the dog

2030
02:20:54.879 --> 02:20:58.959
that tried to bite his ass.
Yeah, you know, he deserves all

2031
02:20:58.319 --> 02:21:03.360
credit, you know. Yeah,
And but you know, so I was

2032
02:21:03.440 --> 02:21:07.159
like, you know, I had
you know, I was doing some really

2033
02:21:07.200 --> 02:21:11.000
impactful work intelligence wise, not just
on the CT side, but strategic side

2034
02:21:11.040 --> 02:21:16.159
too, and so I ended up
I was kind of a trusted agent,

2035
02:21:16.440 --> 02:21:20.280
you know, and all having a
long tab goes along fucking way, dude,

2036
02:21:20.399 --> 02:21:22.879
right, you know what I mean. So it's we all think the

2037
02:21:22.959 --> 02:21:26.719
same GBS. You think alike,
right, green braves think alike. And

2038
02:21:26.719 --> 02:21:30.639
he's like, trust me, you
want to work on this, you know,

2039
02:21:31.879 --> 02:21:35.600
And you know I did my piece
with it, and you know,

2040
02:21:35.680 --> 02:21:39.719
it was team of three of us, and so every day for like two

2041
02:21:39.840 --> 02:21:43.559
fucking weeks or a week and a
half, whatever it was, it was

2042
02:21:43.600 --> 02:21:48.559
getting worse. Like I would,
you know, we would get some intel

2043
02:21:48.639 --> 02:21:52.360
in right, send it out and
like forty five you know, never we

2044
02:21:52.479 --> 02:21:56.680
get like a reply back like that, like half hour, forty five minutes

2045
02:21:56.760 --> 02:21:58.239
later, they're like, hey,
we want more of this. I'm like,

2046
02:21:58.399 --> 02:22:03.120
what the Fuck'm like, and I
look at I look at my dude.

2047
02:22:03.159 --> 02:22:05.200
I can't even say his name,
but I was like, bro,

2048
02:22:05.360 --> 02:22:07.399
what the fuck is this? You
know what I mean? What are we

2049
02:22:07.520 --> 02:22:11.360
doing here? Right? Because you
haven't really been told what the op is.

2050
02:22:11.639 --> 02:22:13.559
Haven't been told what the op is? Are you starting to get a

2051
02:22:13.639 --> 02:22:16.319
clue from what, like the p
I rs are that are coming in?

2052
02:22:16.799 --> 02:22:20.840
No, not at all. Really, it was very limited. The fucking

2053
02:22:20.959 --> 02:22:24.159
j two brilliant mastermind genius whoever the
fuck that guy is, right, you

2054
02:22:24.200 --> 02:22:28.719
know what I mean? But and
and don't get me wrong, there was

2055
02:22:28.760 --> 02:22:31.639
probably multiple elements that work this thing. Yeah, I have no idea,

2056
02:22:33.440 --> 02:22:39.440
right, and so so anyways,
like I'm in the death of my despair

2057
02:22:39.680 --> 02:22:41.159
and I'm just fucking all right,
fuck it, I'm going all in on

2058
02:22:41.280 --> 02:22:46.079
this and you know, responding to
everything, responding to every task and comes

2059
02:22:46.120 --> 02:22:50.399
back, you know, working with
my buddy, you know, working with

2060
02:22:50.440 --> 02:22:52.760
the two other dudes. All right, hey, you know we should consider

2061
02:22:52.879 --> 02:22:56.440
this. You consider that, you
know, human intelligence wise, right,

2062
02:22:56.479 --> 02:23:01.159
all these things and intel comes in, goes out, get you know,

2063
02:23:01.719 --> 02:23:05.639
comes right back. Fuck all right, We've got a retask, right.

2064
02:23:05.719 --> 02:23:09.760
You know. It's very rapid pace. And it was expensive too. It

2065
02:23:09.879 --> 02:23:13.239
was expensive, a little expensive up. So I think it was the night

2066
02:23:13.440 --> 02:23:22.040
of January two, twenty twenty.
I'm fucking exhausted. Not only I'm dealing

2067
02:23:22.159 --> 02:23:26.639
with having just fucking almost killed myself
a little while ago, but you know,

2068
02:23:26.799 --> 02:23:33.079
an uncomfortable relationship with my now pistol, all these fucking things. I

2069
02:23:33.600 --> 02:23:37.000
don't even care. I just want
to sleep. You know, I'm about

2070
02:23:37.440 --> 02:23:41.280
three and a half four months into
this deployment. At this point. Typically

2071
02:23:43.399 --> 02:23:46.479
guys are rotating back on four,
but I'm on a full six, right,

2072
02:23:46.920 --> 02:23:52.040
I'm on a full six, which
at that fucking pace of operations,

2073
02:23:52.120 --> 02:23:56.079
it builds up, you know,
the alistatic there's something in science called alistatic

2074
02:23:56.159 --> 02:24:01.239
load. Like you're fucking you're capped
out right, you know. These mad

2075
02:24:01.360 --> 02:24:03.319
scientists have figured out that like four
months is the magic number. But I'm

2076
02:24:03.319 --> 02:24:07.239
still on I'm on a six month
pump. Yeah, And so it was

2077
02:24:07.319 --> 02:24:09.799
hard because you'd have like a change
of leadership and they have like this new

2078
02:24:09.959 --> 02:24:15.280
fire right, and I'm like,
all right, whatever, Yeah, I'm

2079
02:24:15.319 --> 02:24:18.360
gonna go collect and tell and we're
gonna kill this prick, right, like

2080
02:24:18.440 --> 02:24:20.639
you know, you know what I
mean, like you know, and and

2081
02:24:20.920 --> 02:24:24.799
and but so anyways, I'm I'm
bit and we're in this little or a

2082
02:24:24.840 --> 02:24:28.479
little dentist spies and I'm like,
I'm going to bed. Fuck you.

2083
02:24:28.600 --> 02:24:31.959
I don't care what's going on tonight. But all the ISR birds are at

2084
02:24:31.680 --> 02:24:35.600
are at bat you know, Bagdad
International Airport, And so like, I've

2085
02:24:35.639 --> 02:24:39.760
been devin this target for a fucking
a week and a half, two weeks,

2086
02:24:39.040 --> 02:24:43.879
you know, two other dudes,
right, and who knows slew of

2087
02:24:43.000 --> 02:24:48.000
others that I don't know about that
worked on this, and and so I'm

2088
02:24:48.040 --> 02:24:50.280
like, oh, well, something's
gonna happen. But I'm like, nothing's

2089
02:24:50.319 --> 02:24:52.600
fucking happening. No way, nothing's
happened, nothing's happened this far. I'm

2090
02:24:52.639 --> 02:24:58.159
going to bed and and my buddy's
like, no, you're fucking staying awake

2091
02:24:58.200 --> 02:25:01.200
for this. You're staying awake.
And he pulls out one of those like

2092
02:25:01.200 --> 02:25:03.920
shitty metal chairs. He sets it
down right in the middle of our little

2093
02:25:03.959 --> 02:25:07.879
talk, our little talk, and
you know, we have ISR on the

2094
02:25:07.920 --> 02:25:11.600
big screens, and shit, He's
like, sit the fuck down. And

2095
02:25:11.680 --> 02:25:16.040
so we're sitting there and I'm watching
it, and so it's like a pread

2096
02:25:16.079 --> 02:25:22.399
feed, it's pread feed, right, and I'm watching it and plane pulls

2097
02:25:22.479 --> 02:25:28.159
up and just like we thought on
buy app on buy app right, plane

2098
02:25:28.239 --> 02:25:33.959
pulls up and just like we thought
planned and all this other stuff. Dude,

2099
02:25:33.000 --> 02:25:37.319
gets off. Black SUVs come up, gets in the suv, right,

2100
02:25:39.639 --> 02:25:43.399
guy takes off, starts going down
Route Irish, which is you know,

2101
02:25:43.680 --> 02:25:48.840
very familiar with a lot of people, and then the fucking bird blocks

2102
02:25:48.920 --> 02:25:56.040
on and fires an ageism and then
you know, target wrecked, and my

2103
02:25:56.120 --> 02:26:01.559
buddy goes, slaps me on the
back and goes, congratulations, you just

2104
02:26:01.719 --> 02:26:05.360
bagged cost some Sola money. And
we were like, I'm like, we

2105
02:26:05.440 --> 02:26:11.840
were like, holy fuck right,
like fucking thrown shit right, like screaming,

2106
02:26:13.360 --> 02:26:18.120
hooting, hollering, like total fucking
animals. Just a bunch off guys,

2107
02:26:18.200 --> 02:26:20.879
like, holy shit, we just
bagged the super fucking bowl of targets.

2108
02:26:20.959 --> 02:26:26.040
Yeah, right, yeah, And
that's probably a more significant target than

2109
02:26:26.159 --> 02:26:30.120
bin Laden in Begdaddy put together.
Absolutely. I mean, you think of

2110
02:26:30.239 --> 02:26:33.079
fucking anybody that's in this country right
now that's an Iraq vat that's missing a

2111
02:26:33.200 --> 02:26:37.280
limb, it is because of him. You think about the sheer amount of

2112
02:26:37.399 --> 02:26:41.760
fucking suffering that like has been put
through by ri Iraq vets early in the

2113
02:26:41.840 --> 02:26:46.399
war, right, you know,
quadruple ampeity stuff like that. That was

2114
02:26:46.479 --> 02:26:50.239
him and Kud's force and all those
ass bringing all the e fps into country.

2115
02:26:50.559 --> 02:26:54.280
You know, defeating defeating our armor. Yeah, absolutely, Yeah.

2116
02:26:54.399 --> 02:26:56.680
They were the madness of the science
behind all that, and they were the

2117
02:26:58.000 --> 02:27:01.959
the impetus. He was behind all
that, yep. And the you know,

2118
02:27:03.159 --> 02:27:07.040
in the build up of that strike, we were you know, the

2119
02:27:07.120 --> 02:27:11.159
embassy was under imminent attack. We
thought the embassy was going to get big

2120
02:27:11.280 --> 02:27:16.479
gazied right again, and we were
producing information, you know, for retaliatory

2121
02:27:16.559 --> 02:27:20.040
strikes. We were producing information to
like the force pro side of it,

2122
02:27:20.159 --> 02:27:22.959
all the force pro shit like that. We were talking people down there,

2123
02:27:24.440 --> 02:27:26.239
you know. It was like,
you know, jokingly, I was talking

2124
02:27:26.280 --> 02:27:28.840
about buddy of mine, he was
working in security down there. You know.

2125
02:27:28.159 --> 02:27:31.479
There was like a loose warno that
went out was like if you're a

2126
02:27:31.639 --> 02:27:35.239
Ranger or eighteen series, you gotta
be on standby and yeah, holy fuck

2127
02:27:35.319 --> 02:27:39.399
right. Yeah, Like we were
like, oh shit, man, like

2128
02:27:39.040 --> 02:27:43.840
the stack is not deep and with
a very special set of qualification. And

2129
02:27:45.120 --> 02:27:46.959
it was fucking funny because I was
talking to my buddy that was down there,

2130
02:27:48.159 --> 02:27:50.879
and uh, you know, we
have a whole gunlocker, a shit

2131
02:27:50.000 --> 02:27:54.319
three twenties, two four nines,
and I'm like and I'm like hey,

2132
02:27:54.399 --> 02:27:54.920
man, like, so what do
you want me to bring. I'm like,

2133
02:27:56.000 --> 02:27:58.000
I got a two four nine.
He's like, yep, bring that

2134
02:27:58.639 --> 02:28:00.719
right, and I'm like put in
the l A five on this, you

2135
02:28:00.799 --> 02:28:03.879
know, the optics and everything else. But obviously it never happened. But

2136
02:28:03.639 --> 02:28:11.639
the the all the intelligence was indicating
that they were gonna do some ship right

2137
02:28:11.760 --> 02:28:16.000
and and and instead you got the
ballistic missile attack. But killing him,

2138
02:28:16.360 --> 02:28:22.920
killing Solimani was the thing I believe
that stopped all that ship from the opening

2139
02:28:22.440 --> 02:28:26.760
because what here's what I thought was
gonna happen. I don't fucking know shit,

2140
02:28:26.000 --> 02:28:28.719
right, I don't know what General
McKenzie came out with. He was

2141
02:28:28.719 --> 02:28:33.959
a cent Com commander at the time. He came out with the a a

2142
02:28:35.760 --> 02:28:39.600
article in The Atlantic about you know, the decision making process. It was

2143
02:28:39.639 --> 02:28:45.079
really funny because we're fucking it's like
chaos every day, and for General McKenzie,

2144
02:28:45.120 --> 02:28:48.680
it was like a fucking Friday afternoon, right you know. He like

2145
02:28:48.040 --> 02:28:52.000
he like went and did like a
tip off at some like NC double a

2146
02:28:52.120 --> 02:28:56.239
football game, right right, yeah, and then like he did the open

2147
02:28:56.799 --> 02:29:00.159
or whatever, yeah yeah, and
like you know, meanwhile we're all like

2148
02:29:00.200 --> 02:29:03.520
we're over there like holy shit,
like this is fucking madness, what's going

2149
02:29:03.600 --> 02:29:09.399
on? And but you know,
the stakes were fucking high. But that

2150
02:29:09.559 --> 02:29:13.520
was the response to killing the contractor
on K one, Yeah, which was

2151
02:29:13.799 --> 02:29:18.120
you know, not only the appropriate
response, but also all the ship that

2152
02:29:18.239 --> 02:29:22.159
was going on behind the fucking scenes
that didn't make that didn't make the you

2153
02:29:22.239 --> 02:29:26.399
know level. I think you're right
too when you point out that, you

2154
02:29:26.479 --> 02:29:31.079
know, Sola money was irreplaceable.
Oh, he was like the Bill Donovan

2155
02:29:31.000 --> 02:29:35.760
of you know, Iranian special ops. Yeah. He was one of those

2156
02:29:35.920 --> 02:29:46.120
rare cases where talent and ability found
its place quite do what yeah does.

2157
02:29:46.159 --> 02:29:48.559
And I think that's true to this
day absolutely. I mean I think,

2158
02:29:48.680 --> 02:29:52.920
like as a case study, if
I was teaching the eighteen Alpha course,

2159
02:29:52.959 --> 02:29:56.840
which is the Special Forces Officer course, I would teach him as probably one

2160
02:29:56.840 --> 02:30:01.239
of the greatest special Forces officers of
the time, just objectively sure of what

2161
02:30:01.360 --> 02:30:05.440
he could do. Yeah, is
he a fucking tyrant? Did he fuck

2162
02:30:05.479 --> 02:30:07.840
with us? Sure? Yeah?
Did he need to die? Of course?

2163
02:30:07.239 --> 02:30:11.799
Right? Yeah? And and and
so what right decision one? You

2164
02:30:11.879 --> 02:30:16.760
know? And yeah, he was
a talented professional, I mean, and

2165
02:30:16.520 --> 02:30:22.319
able to be in order to be
able to wage a war by proxy the

2166
02:30:22.399 --> 02:30:28.079
way he did in Iraq. With
you know, with their militias and also

2167
02:30:28.159 --> 02:30:33.360
with the FPS and and everything else. It is a masterclass and it really

2168
02:30:33.440 --> 02:30:39.479
fucking is. It just goes to
shows that like when you have political support,

2169
02:30:39.680 --> 02:30:45.520
which he had, he had a
line to he had to line like

2170
02:30:45.680 --> 02:30:50.920
a direct line community, right,
and like he could do no wrong,

2171
02:30:50.159 --> 02:30:52.760
you know, cuts forces. I
think it stands for Holy force, right,

2172
02:30:54.000 --> 02:30:58.600
you know, in in Persian,
and so it's you have. But

2173
02:30:58.680 --> 02:31:05.440
it's also a very dangerous. It's
very dangerous too. You have ideology rooted

2174
02:31:05.520 --> 02:31:07.840
in religion. They justify all their
actions in their religion, yes, right,

2175
02:31:09.040 --> 02:31:13.479
and you know we justify all our
actions in law right, and everything

2176
02:31:13.600 --> 02:31:16.799
we do is legally, you know, through and through you know, vetted

2177
02:31:16.840 --> 02:31:22.120
by some you know lawyer right right, who has done the homework and everything

2178
02:31:22.120 --> 02:31:26.639
else. So it's there is a
difference, and it's very scary when you

2179
02:31:26.920 --> 02:31:31.639
have an entire country not you can't
say an entire country because you have to

2180
02:31:31.680 --> 02:31:35.639
say the regime, yeah, because
it isn't the average Iranian person, The

2181
02:31:35.680 --> 02:31:37.879
average Iranian person in that in that
country is suffering, right, you know,

2182
02:31:39.639 --> 02:31:43.680
and yeah, sanctions everything else for
their for their for their wrong ways,

2183
02:31:43.120 --> 02:31:46.520
and not just from US, but
from their own government, like the

2184
02:31:46.799 --> 02:31:50.799
treatment that they receive from their own
government. Like Iranians, Runians are not

2185
02:31:50.920 --> 02:31:54.360
bad people, They're they're held down
by a tyrannical reason. There is a

2186
02:31:54.840 --> 02:31:58.479
epilogue to this story that I would
like to hear you tell that's that's in

2187
02:31:58.559 --> 02:32:03.760
your book about Edith. Absolutely,
and this is where it gets even spicier.

2188
02:32:03.840 --> 02:32:09.479
Gang, This is where it gets
even spicier. So you know,

2189
02:32:09.920 --> 02:32:13.000
when you bring down a big target
like that, you got big problems,

2190
02:32:13.719 --> 02:32:22.319
big problems in the subsequent weeks.
I can't obviously articulate a lot on it

2191
02:32:22.520 --> 02:32:26.200
because there was a lot of heroics
by a lot of dudes that I work

2192
02:32:26.239 --> 02:32:31.360
closely with going after the PM.
You totally making shit happen to keep people

2193
02:32:31.440 --> 02:32:39.040
safe. Right, And so Edith, unbeknownst to all of us, who

2194
02:32:39.159 --> 02:32:41.879
is Edith? Before? She was
an interpreter. Okay, she's an interpreter

2195
02:32:43.520 --> 02:32:48.520
and she was working for us.
I brought her on offs talked, you

2196
02:32:48.559 --> 02:32:52.040
know, I brought her with me. Everybody brought her with me. She

2197
02:32:52.120 --> 02:32:54.639
had massive rapport with all the operators. She was like a Cat three interpreter.

2198
02:32:56.319 --> 02:32:58.440
Yeah, is that the highest level? Yeah? She had to be

2199
02:32:58.520 --> 02:33:01.280
read on the TS stuff, right, yeah, and so I think she

2200
02:33:01.479 --> 02:33:07.639
was that right. And so it
turns out like January eighth is when they

2201
02:33:07.719 --> 02:33:11.719
did the ballistic missile attack on us. And you know, me being a

2202
02:33:11.799 --> 02:33:16.200
good n c O. I was
going around cheering people up right, and

2203
02:33:16.520 --> 02:33:20.280
my buddy Arman, who is you
know former Oh he is a Green Beret,

2204
02:33:20.559 --> 02:33:24.200
but he was on his fourth pomp
and OI R doing this job case

2205
02:33:24.239 --> 02:33:30.600
officer shit, right, good fucking
dude, but he like he ended up

2206
02:33:30.680 --> 02:33:39.000
like busting his collarbone doing trying to
train guys on dirt bikes to do to

2207
02:33:39.120 --> 02:33:43.040
do a close target and it was
like a whole fucking thing with him,

2208
02:33:43.159 --> 02:33:46.799
right, But he didn't want to
leave, right, so they sent him

2209
02:33:46.799 --> 02:33:50.799
to Germany and then he came back
right, and he was like he knew

2210
02:33:50.799 --> 02:33:52.840
it was his last deployment, right, and he was like I'm fucking sick

2211
02:33:52.879 --> 02:33:56.000
on this one out guys, right, and and uh just walking around with

2212
02:33:56.040 --> 02:34:05.200
this lollipop in a slang. Yeah
that's right. But like you know,

2213
02:34:05.399 --> 02:34:11.200
he was sitting outside the bunker fully
kitted up, like snoozing, and he

2214
02:34:11.319 --> 02:34:13.000
was like, it's just gonna be
a bunch of one O seven rockets right

2215
02:34:13.200 --> 02:34:18.840
one of the catushas they fucking they
look all cool and intimidating, and they

2216
02:34:18.920 --> 02:34:22.239
go all this, they go in
all these different directions. But actually it

2217
02:34:22.360 --> 02:34:26.799
was a fucking short. It was
a medium range bully submission at our base

2218
02:34:26.879 --> 02:34:33.799
and or Beal and then at Alice
Saide, right, and we were lucky

2219
02:34:35.399 --> 02:34:37.879
that it wasn't a direct hit where
we were at. But I remember the

2220
02:34:39.000 --> 02:34:43.680
booms hitting and then his ass popping
up out of his cart, out of

2221
02:34:43.719 --> 02:34:48.200
his chair, diving right into the
bunker, and we were kind of quiet

2222
02:34:48.360 --> 02:34:54.319
for a little bit, and I
remember how I was going. I was

2223
02:34:54.399 --> 02:34:58.000
like, wow, we're going to
war boys. And I looked at one

2224
02:34:58.040 --> 02:35:01.280
of the new analysts. It was
his first apployment. I said, you're

2225
02:35:01.399 --> 02:35:07.920
the first to die, right,
and you like said right, And I

2226
02:35:07.000 --> 02:35:13.079
mean it was terrible, but it
was terrible, but that was the reality

2227
02:35:13.200 --> 02:35:18.079
that set in. Yeah, And
so you know, in the subsequent weeks,

2228
02:35:18.719 --> 02:35:22.000
we were working our fucking asses off, Yeah, working our fucking asses

2229
02:35:22.040 --> 02:35:24.079
off, requirements just pouring in,
you know, and then I think at

2230
02:35:24.120 --> 02:35:28.799
one there was at one point,
I don't know when the fuck this happened,

2231
02:35:28.879 --> 02:35:31.079
but they pull us in and they
go, hey, so you know,

2232
02:35:31.120 --> 02:35:33.760
it's like five or six of us, and they were like, this

2233
02:35:33.879 --> 02:35:37.040
is the pilot team for Iran,
right, And I'm like, oh shit,

2234
02:35:39.360 --> 02:35:41.159
well, you know, at first
I make a joke because dark humor

2235
02:35:41.319 --> 02:35:45.360
is our number one, right,
but I say, you know, at

2236
02:35:45.399 --> 02:35:48.479
least they'll be a book about us, right, Yeah. And then and

2237
02:35:48.520 --> 02:35:52.159
then I said, and this is
this is the serious thing I say.

2238
02:35:52.239 --> 02:35:56.200
I was like, you know,
they can't take us alive. And they

2239
02:35:56.239 --> 02:35:58.719
were like, what the fuck do
you mean. I was like, guys,

2240
02:35:58.520 --> 02:36:01.239
we all have heads full fucking secrets. Dude. Yeah. I was

2241
02:36:01.280 --> 02:36:05.360
like, if we'd go all in
on this, right and we get captured,

2242
02:36:05.559 --> 02:36:09.879
you think we're gonna put the government
in a bad position. And they're

2243
02:36:09.000 --> 02:36:11.840
like, oh fuck, you're not
right. And I was like, you

2244
02:36:11.879 --> 02:36:15.639
don't think it's gonna be You think
they're gonna follow Geneva conventions, dude?

2245
02:36:15.680 --> 02:36:20.920
Yeah? No, yeah, like
no, this is a all or nothing

2246
02:36:20.040 --> 02:36:26.239
type of thing. And I remember
everybody in that room was like, he's

2247
02:36:26.360 --> 02:36:28.559
right, he's not wrong, you
know what I mean. And it was

2248
02:36:28.639 --> 02:36:33.559
like one of those things, and
you know, it never happened, obviously

2249
02:36:33.920 --> 02:36:41.479
never happened, but what we weren't
prepared for. Was Edith the Catherine interpreter

2250
02:36:41.920 --> 02:36:46.799
betraying us, who has been with
you through source meetings, been with you

2251
02:36:48.040 --> 02:36:54.040
through and you know, uh document
exploitation, been with you through everything because

2252
02:36:54.120 --> 02:37:01.360
she Shiaba's she was the cultural conduit. Yeah know, speaks the language,

2253
02:37:01.159 --> 02:37:09.520
and it was we just didn't know
how to fucking take it, but we

2254
02:37:09.879 --> 02:37:11.920
just reacted accordingly. So what did
you how did you find what did you

2255
02:37:11.959 --> 02:37:16.079
find out? And how did you
find that out? That was not my

2256
02:37:16.280 --> 02:37:22.959
job. I found out. Somebody
else figured that out. And I'm very

2257
02:37:22.120 --> 02:37:26.399
I can't really talk about it,
you know, but they did all their

2258
02:37:26.440 --> 02:37:35.680
homework. I think the way the
way they did it was I can't even

2259
02:37:35.760 --> 02:37:39.360
remember because at that time I was
just dealing with the depths of my despair

2260
02:37:41.040 --> 02:37:43.159
and you know what I mean,
like, so, how did how did

2261
02:37:43.239 --> 02:37:46.200
you? How did you find out? I mean, I mean, long

2262
02:37:46.280 --> 02:37:50.559
story short, Edith was transmitting classified
information to the Iranians. Yes, yes,

2263
02:37:50.799 --> 02:38:00.879
it turns out that she was has
belaw sympathizer like from particular area of

2264
02:38:00.959 --> 02:38:05.959
Lebanon that they missed in her s
F eighty six. So the s F

2265
02:38:05.000 --> 02:38:09.319
eighty six is what you all fill
out to get a clearance, you go

2266
02:38:09.479 --> 02:38:11.760
through all year, which as of
like twenty fourteen, China has them all

2267
02:38:11.879 --> 02:38:15.559
now yeah probably, yeah, you
know, I'm definitely on their yeah,

2268
02:38:15.600 --> 02:38:18.360
you know, definitely on their targeting
list too. Yeah, you know.

2269
02:38:18.280 --> 02:38:24.440
Yeah. But like so you look
at you, but you know, for

2270
02:38:24.600 --> 02:38:31.879
her was you know, completely compromising
us, completely compromising the people we were

2271
02:38:31.920 --> 02:38:37.879
working with. And so the fallout
of that is, well, we have

2272
02:38:37.959 --> 02:38:43.079
a lot of work to do and
then kind of before you know, the

2273
02:38:43.120 --> 02:38:48.520
funny thing about being a Green Beret
is we always think about Fallujah Ramadi,

2274
02:38:48.959 --> 02:38:52.680
the guys that didn't field in Afghanists. We think about Nurse Stan Silver fucking

2275
02:38:52.719 --> 02:38:56.319
Star Valley, Right, you think
about all these guys that have done but

2276
02:38:56.479 --> 02:39:01.079
in hairy ticks Vietnam should even mac
v Sacks. So tick stands for time.

2277
02:39:01.280 --> 02:39:05.000
Was it a time of cons and
contact troops and contact? Right,

2278
02:39:05.079 --> 02:39:09.520
So you know you think of all
these dudes, and Harry asked tics and

2279
02:39:09.719 --> 02:39:13.360
you know, I was, I
knew Earl Plumley, you know, I

2280
02:39:13.440 --> 02:39:16.680
know or Pumley, Earl Plumley Medal
of Honor recipient. Awesome fucking dude.

2281
02:39:16.840 --> 02:39:24.479
He was in Okey on the tail
end of my tour there right, talk

2282
02:39:24.520 --> 02:39:26.840
about a hell of a fucking Green
Beret being right place, right time,

2283
02:39:28.040 --> 02:39:31.479
right his story and Metal Honor recipient. So it's like we always think of,

2284
02:39:31.840 --> 02:39:35.719
you know, these things like that's
the ultimate danger, that's the ultimate

2285
02:39:35.799 --> 02:39:39.440
danger. But you know, for
me, I'm like, you know,

2286
02:39:39.520 --> 02:39:43.920
talking to my buddies locally, I'm
like, what are the two requirements that

2287
02:39:45.040 --> 02:39:48.239
you would have if they assassinated one
of our people? Like if they went

2288
02:39:48.280 --> 02:39:52.200
after Gina Haspell for instance, love
Gina right, great human being, like

2289
02:39:52.319 --> 02:39:56.959
you know, leadership wise, everything
else right, But like if they took

2290
02:39:58.000 --> 02:40:01.120
her out, for instance, which
would would have been the equivalent of of

2291
02:40:01.520 --> 02:40:05.799
Solomony, I think, right,
what are the first two questions we would

2292
02:40:05.799 --> 02:40:09.280
ask? Who the fuck did it? And where the fuck are they?

2293
02:40:09.920 --> 02:40:16.280
Right? And so when I kind
of put that in perspective, the Iranians

2294
02:40:16.399 --> 02:40:20.399
know exactly who did it and where
they're yeah, exactly, especially with Edith

2295
02:40:22.280 --> 02:40:26.159
Edith right next to you guys.
Yeah, And so I'm kind of like,

2296
02:40:26.399 --> 02:40:28.440
it's a nightmare. We're fucked,
right. So I was like,

2297
02:40:31.120 --> 02:40:35.040
you know, two weeks, two
weeks shy of my sixth finishing my six

2298
02:40:35.120 --> 02:40:39.360
months there packed in the sea one
or packed in the C seventeenth sent fucking

2299
02:40:39.440 --> 02:40:43.840
home. And it goes back to
what we were talking about regarding Solomoni.

2300
02:40:43.040 --> 02:40:48.520
I mean, she wasn't recruited after
the assassination, right the attack. She

2301
02:40:50.200 --> 02:40:52.000
you know, she was recruited well
beforehand. And I don't know when,

2302
02:40:52.200 --> 02:40:58.040
but had to be had to be
had. I don't know the details of

2303
02:40:58.200 --> 02:41:01.559
it, but it's like they're good
at what they do. They're good at

2304
02:41:01.559 --> 02:41:05.559
what they fucking do. They're they're
equally good at what we do too.

2305
02:41:05.760 --> 02:41:09.000
I mean, like and we think
that I would say this, the Arab

2306
02:41:09.079 --> 02:41:16.000
world is generally very good at human
intelligence because it's the cheapest form of intelligence

2307
02:41:16.040 --> 02:41:18.559
they can afford. You know what
they think about it. You know what

2308
02:41:18.600 --> 02:41:22.760
the Filipinos told me once, They
said, you know how you guys Americans

2309
02:41:22.840 --> 02:41:26.760
have analysts notebook and you have these
computer programs that connect all of these different

2310
02:41:26.799 --> 02:41:31.159
things, Like we do that genetically. We just understand it in our mind.

2311
02:41:31.639 --> 02:41:35.719
Yeah. Yeah, And that was
like one of the hardest things of

2312
02:41:35.799 --> 02:41:37.959
me when I was working there,
was like, hey, you need to

2313
02:41:37.959 --> 02:41:41.280
put it on a map, you
know, and you should do this,

2314
02:41:41.479 --> 02:41:43.680
do it this way, And well, I think I think one of the

2315
02:41:43.760 --> 02:41:46.639
things I mean is a lot of
the Arab culture is so conspiracy oriented to

2316
02:41:46.719 --> 02:41:54.600
begin with that that that they'll make
connections. They'll make a lot of connections

2317
02:41:54.639 --> 02:41:58.440
that aren't correct, but they'll make
connections that are correct just because like they're

2318
02:41:58.559 --> 02:42:05.000
they're their minds go there a broken
clos Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

2319
02:42:05.840 --> 02:42:07.680
You know. The other thing that
the Solomon and Rate did was was

2320
02:42:09.000 --> 02:42:13.200
it really I personally felt when it
happened. I felt like it was kind

2321
02:42:13.239 --> 02:42:18.040
of a master stroke of sort of
like diplomacy in the sense of just three

2322
02:42:18.120 --> 02:42:24.639
weeks or two weeks before the Ayatola
had publicly told Trump you can't do anything

2323
02:42:24.639 --> 02:42:28.440
about it, you know, about
the attack, and then you know,

2324
02:42:28.520 --> 02:42:33.520
three weeks later we take out a
major figure of THEIRS, A major and

2325
02:42:33.639 --> 02:42:37.719
not just not just a political figure, not just uh, you know,

2326
02:42:37.879 --> 02:42:43.399
a kind of an empty sort of
figurehead, but somebody who's very operational.

2327
02:42:43.559 --> 02:42:48.120
Operation Laden was not really operation right, Solomani was operating. Yeah, it

2328
02:42:48.319 --> 02:42:52.399
was, you know what, And
this is what I think about, And

2329
02:42:52.559 --> 02:42:56.120
I don't really know all the details, but if I was him, I

2330
02:42:56.239 --> 02:42:58.000
put myself in his shoes. As
an eighteen fox, you always put yourself

2331
02:42:58.040 --> 02:43:03.360
in the enemy's shoes based on what
was happening on the ground with catab Has

2332
02:43:03.440 --> 02:43:09.079
blah, you know, planning,
plotting and planning and scheming to do an

2333
02:43:09.079 --> 02:43:11.360
attack on the embassy for some sort
of win. I would imagine that he

2334
02:43:11.520 --> 02:43:16.399
was going to let that happen and
then come in and then pull his dogs

2335
02:43:16.479 --> 02:43:18.200
off, right and be like,
hey, the Americans, I pulled my

2336
02:43:18.319 --> 02:43:22.159
dogs off. What you're gonna do
for me? Type of thing? And

2337
02:43:24.399 --> 02:43:26.719
I think it was like one of
those is like quintessential, we don't negotiate

2338
02:43:26.760 --> 02:43:33.799
with terrorists, but but that's it's
all like he understood that cat and mouse

2339
02:43:33.879 --> 02:43:39.120
game. He understood the diplomacy,
He understood all aspects of it. He

2340
02:43:39.639 --> 02:43:41.799
you know, studied the shit out
of us. Yeah, the dude was

2341
02:43:43.040 --> 02:43:50.399
a true master and in a very
formidable foe that a we we don't only

2342
02:43:50.559 --> 02:43:56.920
you know it's he did horrible things
against us, sure, but in terms

2343
02:43:56.000 --> 02:44:01.319
of his effectiveness, he should be
studied very hard, right and and and

2344
02:44:03.159 --> 02:44:07.600
in depth and not to be because
objectively have we you know since whild Bill

2345
02:44:07.680 --> 02:44:11.959
Donovan, who do we got since
then? You know, that was like

2346
02:44:11.120 --> 02:44:16.280
that influential. He was a professional
and if we were in that same position

2347
02:44:16.559 --> 02:44:20.680
geographically, we'd be doing exactly the
same thing. Mm hm. Well and

2348
02:44:20.879 --> 02:44:26.079
and you know, and he'd had
years to study, you know, he

2349
02:44:26.120 --> 02:44:30.280
had years you know, our actions
at Tora Bora where they said, hey,

2350
02:44:30.399 --> 02:44:33.799
back you know, where the enemy
says, hey, back off,

2351
02:44:33.040 --> 02:44:39.799
and we back off with with Solder
and Solder City, with Jayshalmadi, we'd

2352
02:44:39.879 --> 02:44:43.360
go in kick his ass until he
go, okay, hey, hey,

2353
02:44:43.440 --> 02:44:48.440
look, I'm a religious figure like
peace, you know, peace and blessings,

2354
02:44:48.479 --> 02:44:52.079
and we'd back off while he'd build
his forces back up, you know,

2355
02:44:52.399 --> 02:44:56.479
like he had plenty of time to
see our response to those situations and

2356
02:44:56.559 --> 02:45:01.760
how we do give people the space
to fuck with us because we want we

2357
02:45:01.920 --> 02:45:05.440
want to, like you try to
take the peaceful route. Well, here's

2358
02:45:05.479 --> 02:45:09.319
the thing is like it's like centers
of gravity. You look at something,

2359
02:45:09.680 --> 02:45:13.440
you know, understanding our center of
gravity analysis, looking at the population right

2360
02:45:13.520 --> 02:45:18.440
and that being the key the key
holder of our success. And not only

2361
02:45:18.479 --> 02:45:22.760
do encounter insurgency, but like unconventional
warfare, we talk about it, you

2362
02:45:22.840 --> 02:45:28.479
know. And and and that's he
understood that we would say we would pull

2363
02:45:28.600 --> 02:45:31.639
back, not send our guys out
at night you know, not do as

2364
02:45:31.719 --> 02:45:35.680
many raids, right, right,
and ship like you know back then,

2365
02:45:35.959 --> 02:45:41.600
right to appease certain people, to
win the population too, in hopes that

2366
02:45:41.719 --> 02:45:46.639
they would reject this extremism, you
know, view and fighting us and trying

2367
02:45:46.680 --> 02:45:52.120
to make a more peaceful environment.
Right. So they send you guys home

2368
02:45:52.239 --> 02:45:56.200
because I mean, essentially this entire
program has been compromised because of Edith.

2369
02:45:56.200 --> 02:46:01.600
Uh So they they send you guys
back home. What's the next step for

2370
02:46:01.760 --> 02:46:03.559
you? I mean, I'm interested
to hear about, like kind of the

2371
02:46:03.600 --> 02:46:07.879
rest of your life, what happens
after all of that. Thank you so

2372
02:46:07.000 --> 02:46:11.120
much for asking that, because this
is where the real battle of my mental

2373
02:46:11.200 --> 02:46:15.559
health starts. I go back.
So I'm living in Capitol Hill. I'm

2374
02:46:15.559 --> 02:46:22.079
about two blocks from the Capitol building, and I live in an English basement

2375
02:46:22.079 --> 02:46:26.840
apartment. My landlord's a congressman.
My neighbor's Lindsay Graham, center of Graham,

2376
02:46:28.040 --> 02:46:31.000
right. And I didn't really live
there before the deployment because I was

2377
02:46:31.040 --> 02:46:35.000
at my ex girlfriend's house, you
know, most of the time, and

2378
02:46:35.159 --> 02:46:43.680
so here I was now no mission, right, no personal life, in

2379
02:46:43.760 --> 02:46:50.239
the middle of fucking COVID. I
returned. I was RTB March eighteenth,

2380
02:46:50.319 --> 02:46:52.959
twenty twenty. Wow. If you
look at the news, they shut down

2381
02:46:52.040 --> 02:46:56.600
all the airports on March eighteenth.
Yeah, last burn in right, And

2382
02:46:56.680 --> 02:47:03.719
I'm in my DC apartment alone with
these fucking thoughts, no mission now,

2383
02:47:03.440 --> 02:47:07.399
and I'm like, holy fuck,
dude, And COVID is hitting too.

2384
02:47:07.680 --> 02:47:13.399
COVID is hitting. I can't go
home and see my family right because they

2385
02:47:13.399 --> 02:47:18.360
don't know what's happening. Every restriction
of movement everywhere, and I'm just basically

2386
02:47:18.440 --> 02:47:20.559
told to sit in place. And
they told me, they were like,

2387
02:47:20.040 --> 02:47:24.159
hey, you're earning some time off. Just just chill. I'm like,

2388
02:47:24.319 --> 02:47:28.799
just chill. Yeah, I want
my fucking life back, right, Like

2389
02:47:28.000 --> 02:47:33.520
chilling isn't staying in an apartment yeah, and isolated? Yeah. And and

2390
02:47:33.959 --> 02:47:41.719
so in this moment, all the
thoughts of suicide come rushing back, and

2391
02:47:41.840 --> 02:47:46.440
I'm battling with it every fucking day. But the thing they said to myself

2392
02:47:48.040 --> 02:47:50.840
the first thing I said to myself, and this, this is the whole

2393
02:47:50.879 --> 02:47:54.000
reason why I wrote the book.
I wrote this book for my GB friends

2394
02:47:54.239 --> 02:47:58.680
out there, Green Beret friends out
there struggling, right, And for the

2395
02:47:58.719 --> 02:48:03.600
first time in my life, I
had fucking compassion for myself. I said,

2396
02:48:03.799 --> 02:48:07.120
we're not running. We're not gonna
do an ultramarathon. We're not gonna

2397
02:48:07.159 --> 02:48:11.040
fucking you know what I mean.
We're not gonna like try to replace this

2398
02:48:11.719 --> 02:48:18.600
void with some sort of succet material
success or climbing ever there extrinsic success,

2399
02:48:18.760 --> 02:48:22.920
right. I said, We're gonna
fucking sit with this and we're gonna figure

2400
02:48:22.920 --> 02:48:26.360
it the fuck out, whatever this
is. And I told myself, I've

2401
02:48:26.360 --> 02:48:33.639
been through a lot, and I
didn't drink right, but every day I,

2402
02:48:33.920 --> 02:48:37.799
you know, was committed to fitness, committed to fitness. And there's

2403
02:48:39.040 --> 02:48:43.840
many case studies out there that that
talk about people with mental health disorders,

2404
02:48:43.879 --> 02:48:46.600
people that are struggling, you know, and the dopamines hit, dopamine hits

2405
02:48:46.639 --> 02:48:50.840
you get from fitness, and how
to improves their symptoms. Unbeknownst to me

2406
02:48:50.920 --> 02:48:54.440
at the time, that was my
fucking default. Just like I went to

2407
02:48:54.520 --> 02:49:01.360
the gym that morning and slay myself
on equipment before I blew my fucking brains

2408
02:49:01.399 --> 02:49:03.159
out. I was doing the same
thing every day, and I would run

2409
02:49:03.280 --> 02:49:07.959
to I was about roughly three miles
to the Lincoln Memorial from my house,

2410
02:49:09.040 --> 02:49:13.600
so it was a six mile round
trip and I would run out to honest

2411
02:49:13.600 --> 02:49:16.479
say it, and there was no
one on the mall, no one on

2412
02:49:16.520 --> 02:49:20.920
the DC mall. And I would
sit there on his fucking steps, and

2413
02:49:22.120 --> 02:49:24.040
I like, I would like look
at him, be like, what the

2414
02:49:24.120 --> 02:49:26.120
fuck, dude, what do I
do? You know what I mean?

2415
02:49:26.719 --> 02:49:31.079
And and I would sit there and
I just I'd sit with my shit,

2416
02:49:31.559 --> 02:49:37.120
you know. And it wasn't until
I was clearing out an old storage unit

2417
02:49:37.040 --> 02:49:39.959
that I had with my ex wife, getting rid of all the fucking shit

2418
02:49:41.040 --> 02:49:48.280
from our marriage, right, it
hit me in a very concrete way and

2419
02:49:48.559 --> 02:49:52.360
I literally got hit with the fucking
concret by a concrete truck on three ninety

2420
02:49:52.399 --> 02:49:58.200
five. Yeah. Yeah, And
I've been to an evasive driving course,

2421
02:49:58.479 --> 02:50:01.000
you know, for the job,
and so like in the moment that like

2422
02:50:01.159 --> 02:50:05.680
training kicked in and I got safely
to the side of the road, and

2423
02:50:05.719 --> 02:50:07.639
I remember the driver was like coming
out and he was like are you okay?

2424
02:50:09.559 --> 02:50:13.399
And I was like, I was
devastated, you know, because the

2425
02:50:13.440 --> 02:50:16.159
internal dialogue at the time was like
I missed my fucking chance to die,

2426
02:50:16.440 --> 02:50:20.559
to die. Yeah, I missed
my chance to die, to end my

2427
02:50:20.719 --> 02:50:26.680
fucking pain to not because well I
just want to point out that around this

2428
02:50:26.879 --> 02:50:31.440
time, like, there were also
a couple of suicides like around you absolutely,

2429
02:50:31.520 --> 02:50:35.520
and one was an old friend and
one was a colleague. I don't

2430
02:50:35.520 --> 02:50:39.159
know if you're comfortable with me saying
his name on here, but you know

2431
02:50:39.399 --> 02:50:43.559
Jake in your book, Well,
I appreciate that. We'll stick with Jake,

2432
02:50:43.079 --> 02:50:48.920
you know, but Jake's suicide at
this around this time, right,

2433
02:50:50.680 --> 02:50:56.200
I there was an all call about
Jake's suicide, right, And Jake's suicide

2434
02:50:56.879 --> 02:51:00.479
was basically like they brought us all
in, we're all on his zoom call

2435
02:51:00.600 --> 02:51:03.040
or whatever, and they talk about
the details that happened, and they basically

2436
02:51:03.120 --> 02:51:11.719
equated it to his He had multiple
TBIs and Jake has done Jaysok deployments.

2437
02:51:11.840 --> 02:51:16.959
Jacob as an infantry guy. Yeah, before he was an intelligence operative like

2438
02:51:18.159 --> 02:51:20.319
very you know, getting after a
type of career, right, Like,

2439
02:51:22.479 --> 02:51:24.319
but he was going through a ton
of shit on the sideline, right,

2440
02:51:24.680 --> 02:51:28.719
similar to you, very similar to
me, and and you know, and

2441
02:51:30.079 --> 02:51:31.879
he had a divorce, you know, in the works and shit like that

2442
02:51:33.079 --> 02:51:35.520
too. Okay, Well I'm not
I'm not tracking that, but like,

2443
02:51:35.639 --> 02:51:41.079
yeah, I know I'm tracking a
lot of that stuff. And I don't

2444
02:51:41.079 --> 02:51:46.200
you know. He It's one of
those situations where it's like, you know,

2445
02:51:46.280 --> 02:51:48.840
from the outside looking in, people
are like, oh my god,

2446
02:51:48.920 --> 02:51:52.799
how could that happen? But when
you really like look at the person's life

2447
02:51:52.799 --> 02:51:54.319
and you start to pick it apart
and you see all the little details,

2448
02:51:54.399 --> 02:51:58.920
it's like it flips to how could
that not happen? Like this poor guy

2449
02:52:00.079 --> 02:52:03.559
had so much stuff on him.
And that's that's exactly it. And and

2450
02:52:03.879 --> 02:52:09.920
I think for me not understanding all
the details of what was going on in

2451
02:52:11.319 --> 02:52:16.079
his life, right, but just
a dude going through some ship with some

2452
02:52:16.200 --> 02:52:20.399
empathy, right and having some understanding
of like, I know what that feels

2453
02:52:20.479 --> 02:52:26.239
like. I saw a dude who
was just trying to chase happiness, you

2454
02:52:26.319 --> 02:52:28.719
know, That's what I saw,
right, and and so and and that's

2455
02:52:28.760 --> 02:52:33.079
how it hit me, just to
find some peace, peace exactly right,

2456
02:52:33.600 --> 02:52:37.680
Peace, tranquility. But I mean, there isn't a whole lot of this.

2457
02:52:37.840 --> 02:52:41.639
And he was chasing the dragon,
just like you were exactly chasing the

2458
02:52:41.719 --> 02:52:46.639
high. And don't get me wrong, his girlfriend, she was she was

2459
02:52:46.639 --> 02:52:50.440
an amazing human being, right,
not gonna lie right, like, and

2460
02:52:50.799 --> 02:52:54.200
there is there is a high with
that, right when you meet someone that's

2461
02:52:54.239 --> 02:53:01.200
like very like minded and everything else, and so and so it's like we're

2462
02:53:01.239 --> 02:53:05.639
on the all call for Jake and
we're listening in and the fucking the same

2463
02:53:05.719 --> 02:53:09.360
sergeant major that callously just fucking was
like, Yeah, you're gonna go to

2464
02:53:09.479 --> 02:53:13.840
right and everything's gonna be fine,
you know, without a tinge of operational

2465
02:53:13.959 --> 02:53:18.799
experience compared to me or other or
a guy like Jake for instance, had

2466
02:53:20.040 --> 02:53:24.479
putting hold a candle to this guy, Yeah, he goes and he's like,

2467
02:53:24.879 --> 02:53:30.239
oh, yeah, it was TBIs
And I'm like, really, dude,

2468
02:53:30.280 --> 02:53:35.440
we're not gonna talk about everything else
going on because at that moment and

2469
02:53:35.959 --> 02:53:41.040
I saw they were, like someone
on the all call said what are we

2470
02:53:41.159 --> 02:53:46.440
doing in memoriam for Jake? And
that sergeant major replied, this is it.

2471
02:53:46.559 --> 02:53:48.959
And that's when I took myself off
of mute and I said, this

2472
02:53:50.079 --> 02:53:54.760
is fucking bullshit. I read that
sergeant major's reports on the fifteen six,

2473
02:53:56.079 --> 02:54:01.920
and I mean he had like three
sentences to say about that gentleman's death.

2474
02:54:03.920 --> 02:54:16.159
I think it personally, how can
you be running this unit and doing the

2475
02:54:16.280 --> 02:54:20.520
training that we do and the genuineness
and establishing connection with sources and having the

2476
02:54:20.600 --> 02:54:26.000
emotional intelligence that we're trained to have
that you're not going to extend it to

2477
02:54:26.719 --> 02:54:31.559
your fellow dudes, guys and gals. Well, but I was just gonna

2478
02:54:31.559 --> 02:54:37.000
say, but he showed that clearly
when you said I have these issues,

2479
02:54:37.440 --> 02:54:43.520
and he said your issues aren't real
issues exactly. And so when I look

2480
02:54:43.600 --> 02:54:48.479
at Jake's thing, well, they
treated my shit like that, right,

2481
02:54:50.559 --> 02:54:52.920
what is to say they didn't treat
his shit like that? Right? And

2482
02:54:54.040 --> 02:54:58.239
so that is why everyone's like,
well, you talk about in the community

2483
02:54:58.680 --> 02:55:01.840
and you're working in these high level
positions, right, why guys are afraid

2484
02:55:01.879 --> 02:55:05.000
of why guys and gals are going
afraid to go to mental health, because

2485
02:55:05.920 --> 02:55:09.639
that's exactly the fucking reason, right. It's like, you can't you can't

2486
02:55:09.719 --> 02:55:13.000
own your ship, right, That's
what I say in the book is own

2487
02:55:13.000 --> 02:55:16.520
your fucking ship. But like,
you go to these these things, you're

2488
02:55:16.559 --> 02:55:20.840
gonna lose the last thing that you
fucking have. And that's a goddamn mission.

2489
02:55:20.280 --> 02:55:24.920
And and and you know, a
lot of us to work in these

2490
02:55:24.959 --> 02:55:30.479
positions, we train our whole goddamn
lives at this fucking point. You know,

2491
02:55:30.719 --> 02:55:33.319
That's that's what that guy was holding
on to you know, just like

2492
02:55:33.799 --> 02:55:39.559
we're talking to Bill Moulder's widow the
other day. And that's why yeah started

2493
02:55:39.680 --> 02:55:45.120
sound off, which is which is
an app that connects you with a therapist

2494
02:55:45.280 --> 02:55:52.120
anonymously. Exactly. Sound could have
saved Jack it exactly for these reasons,

2495
02:55:52.159 --> 02:55:56.799
because nobody is going to risk their
clearance, their job. They're they're not

2496
02:55:56.920 --> 02:56:03.760
gonna risk it for to talk to
somebody. And then and the problem is

2497
02:56:03.840 --> 02:56:07.319
is I think, like you know
this, like once you get to the

2498
02:56:07.360 --> 02:56:13.040
point where you're where you're thinking about
it, mm hmm, you're you're you're

2499
02:56:13.159 --> 02:56:18.520
like deep in It's it's rare that
you're going to go, oh, I

2500
02:56:18.559 --> 02:56:22.479
should make maybe I should talk to
somebody about it. Like you're like you're

2501
02:56:22.520 --> 02:56:28.159
there with it, and and it's
based on you know, your own personal

2502
02:56:28.280 --> 02:56:33.840
resources the moment, you know,
those types of things as to whether or

2503
02:56:33.879 --> 02:56:41.760
not, whether or not it happens. And it's like any intervention, like

2504
02:56:43.440 --> 02:56:48.760
like I think of like just checking
in on somebody, you know what I

2505
02:56:48.879 --> 02:56:52.200
mean that little fight I know in
the book I talk about I was I'm

2506
02:56:52.200 --> 02:56:58.239
a very avid CrossFit athlete, and
I remember the day after or that the

2507
02:56:58.440 --> 02:57:01.799
day well was still the same day, but it was much later that day

2508
02:57:03.319 --> 02:57:07.959
that I had my brush with wanting
to blow my fucking brains out. I

2509
02:57:07.000 --> 02:57:11.120
had a CrossFit coat. My CrossFit
coach in Baltimore reached out to me and

2510
02:57:11.319 --> 02:57:15.079
she was like, hey, how
you doing, because he was like close

2511
02:57:15.120 --> 02:57:18.120
to Christian, Yeah, and I
just fucking like emotionally vomited everything that was

2512
02:57:18.200 --> 02:57:20.639
going on. And she was like, don't worry to I have a find

2513
02:57:20.639 --> 02:57:22.479
you a nice girl and you get
home, right, you know what I

2514
02:57:22.559 --> 02:57:26.840
mean, just being a supportive person. But it's like, and this is

2515
02:57:26.959 --> 02:57:31.200
really why, this is what's difficult
working in these units, and we kind

2516
02:57:31.239 --> 02:57:35.879
of talked about this earlier on,
is that it doesn't have the same carmaraderie

2517
02:57:35.079 --> 02:57:41.200
that being on an odea, being
in ranger regiment, being on a CEL

2518
02:57:41.319 --> 02:57:43.760
team, all these other things,
right, And it's like, because you're

2519
02:57:43.840 --> 02:57:48.879
largely by yourself and you're working with
people like that Sergeant Major that guess what,

2520
02:57:50.920 --> 02:57:54.440
are just looking out for themselves.
And so to your point, not

2521
02:57:54.520 --> 02:57:58.719
that I've read any of that stuff, but the three lines that he wrote

2522
02:58:00.360 --> 02:58:03.200
is largely out of survival, right, That's what that sounds like to me,

2523
02:58:03.920 --> 02:58:09.879
you know, And you're talking about
it suicide note No. Fifteen six.

2524
02:58:11.040 --> 02:58:16.079
Yeah, Yeah, And that's and
that's the thing, is that one

2525
02:58:16.239 --> 02:58:20.840
officers need to stop being punished for
ship that they really can't control, you

2526
02:58:20.920 --> 02:58:26.040
know, because in this in this
case, Jake, I mean, he

2527
02:58:26.280 --> 02:58:31.280
was having like he was failing to
recognize his colleagues in the office. There's

2528
02:58:31.399 --> 02:58:35.239
people who had to walk him to
his car because you couldn't recognize his vehicle.

2529
02:58:35.799 --> 02:58:43.479
He articulated an entire suicide plan to
a colleague a couple of days before

2530
02:58:43.600 --> 02:58:46.479
he took his own life. That's
a fucking wild Yeah. And it's like

2531
02:58:46.639 --> 02:58:52.520
it's it's just you know what,
I almost think like probably whoever that colleague

2532
02:58:52.719 --> 02:58:56.920
was at a self preservation for their
job didn't report it and they knew it

2533
02:58:56.000 --> 02:59:01.000
was going to be a career.
I'm sure that guy blames himself because I

2534
02:59:01.079 --> 02:59:05.319
read his report in the fifteen six
to the poor guy. But it's not

2535
02:59:05.440 --> 02:59:09.000
to blame everything on that one person. It's just to say that there were

2536
02:59:09.079 --> 02:59:13.959
all of these different warning indicators that
the unit should have taken action on.

2537
02:59:15.239 --> 02:59:18.360
But but what you know, what
I was saying is that officers need to

2538
02:59:18.399 --> 02:59:24.159
stop being punished for things they can't
control and start being rewarded for an uncovering

2539
02:59:24.399 --> 02:59:31.079
or revealing sexual assault, for like
uncovering and revealing and helping soldiers who are

2540
02:59:31.120 --> 02:59:37.440
in crisis, as opposed because the
the and soldiers should not be punished for

2541
02:59:39.360 --> 02:59:43.639
receiving help when they're in crisis.
They shouldn't lose their jobs and their clearances,

2542
02:59:43.040 --> 02:59:50.559
especially when sometimes that the whole suicidal
ideation thing can be such a brief

2543
02:59:50.600 --> 02:59:54.600
period of time, whether it's just
one time or you know, over the

2544
02:59:54.680 --> 02:59:58.600
course of a number of mens months, but it doesn't define who a person

2545
02:59:58.799 --> 03:00:03.799
is. And I love that you
said that. I want to segue you

2546
03:00:03.879 --> 03:00:05.920
know, a couple things that you
guys both said. But this is the

2547
03:00:07.000 --> 03:00:09.719
thing, This is why I wrote
the book, right, The whole reason

2548
03:00:09.760 --> 03:00:13.239
why I wrote the book is,
like you said, no one recognized the

2549
03:00:13.280 --> 03:00:16.000
warning signs. Yeah, you know, I wasn't that close to Jake.

2550
03:00:16.479 --> 03:00:20.479
I just knew of him, right, you know. But the the thing

2551
03:00:20.639 --> 03:00:26.239
is is that because someone goes through
with it and completes and dies by suicide,

2552
03:00:26.079 --> 03:00:31.559
it's not that you failed. But
there's all these recognition signals. Like

2553
03:00:31.680 --> 03:00:35.559
if that's why I start with,
you know, just simply taking care of

2554
03:00:35.680 --> 03:00:39.360
me. Hey, you know,
realizing that I have a lot of shit

2555
03:00:39.440 --> 03:00:43.959
going on, we should probably not
deploy him right or that you know,

2556
03:00:45.440 --> 03:00:48.920
maybe we give him the time that
he needs and then he handles his shit.

2557
03:00:48.120 --> 03:00:52.600
And then because I know in special
Forces, like hey, you know,

2558
03:00:52.719 --> 03:00:56.200
they'll fucking Sargeant Major's help out dudes
all the time with shit like that,

2559
03:00:56.440 --> 03:01:01.319
you know, and and and so
the thing is is that how do

2560
03:01:01.399 --> 03:01:05.760
we how do we encapsulate like what
you said is how do we turn those

2561
03:01:05.840 --> 03:01:09.159
things into wins for them? You
know, as opposed to, Hey,

2562
03:01:09.239 --> 03:01:11.360
look, I took care of so
many people, especially in this case within

2563
03:01:11.639 --> 03:01:16.879
a special access program where you know, as one person told me once,

2564
03:01:18.000 --> 03:01:20.559
how far does an IG complaint go
within a SAP? Not very far at

2565
03:01:20.600 --> 03:01:22.639
all. Yeah, I mean,
I have no idea. I never made

2566
03:01:22.639 --> 03:01:24.760
an IG complain about anything, you
know what I mean? But like,

2567
03:01:26.159 --> 03:01:28.959
but I would imagine that's how it
is. It's just like it runs.

2568
03:01:28.040 --> 03:01:33.159
And yeah, it's that we were
talking about a little bit before the show

2569
03:01:33.239 --> 03:01:39.520
that like it's fundamentally different than being
on an oudier or a ranger platoon or

2570
03:01:39.600 --> 03:01:43.520
a seal platoon, that being in
a SAP, it doesn't have that quite

2571
03:01:43.680 --> 03:01:46.680
the same type of leadership and camaraderie
that you would find in those units.

2572
03:01:46.840 --> 03:01:52.239
Absolutely, I mean that is just
so true. It's so true. And

2573
03:01:52.600 --> 03:01:56.520
and you know, for me,
I never felt like I had an advocate

2574
03:01:56.840 --> 03:02:01.600
or someone that I could could write, because all I saw with Jake was

2575
03:02:01.159 --> 03:02:05.920
he raised his hand and said,
hey, I'm struggling, and they were

2576
03:02:05.000 --> 03:02:07.559
like, fuck you. And then
they were like, all right, we're

2577
03:02:07.639 --> 03:02:11.879
gonna take your you know what.
They benched him and then he was dead

2578
03:02:11.000 --> 03:02:16.040
within two months. Yep, right, And that's what I saw. And

2579
03:02:16.159 --> 03:02:20.399
then I saw like on the backside
on that, all call was they were

2580
03:02:20.520 --> 03:02:22.239
like, oh yeah, this is
all we're doing for him. A man

2581
03:02:22.360 --> 03:02:26.520
that definitely earned a stretch of highway
named after him, you know what I

2582
03:02:26.639 --> 03:02:30.239
mean, in terms of his sacrifices
and things that he made in his country.

2583
03:02:30.280 --> 03:02:31.840
And this and this is the thing
and this is the thing that bothers

2584
03:02:31.920 --> 03:02:35.719
me. And I'm gonna try not
to get emotional about it, but like

2585
03:02:35.600 --> 03:02:41.000
my buddy lou and I'll just say
it, Bobby Barrios, Right, That's

2586
03:02:41.000 --> 03:02:43.520
who lou Is is, Bobby Barrios. And because I've had a lot of

2587
03:02:43.600 --> 03:02:48.520
guys in group reach out to me
and who knew. They're like, dude,

2588
03:02:48.879 --> 03:02:50.280
it's Bobby, isn't it. And
I'm like, yeah, And so

2589
03:02:50.479 --> 03:02:58.079
Bobby, I was with a former
friend of mine, I'll say fucking former

2590
03:02:58.239 --> 03:03:03.479
in the strongest words. Right,
I'm in the depths of my despair and

2591
03:03:03.559 --> 03:03:05.920
I meet up with this guy in
DC during COVID and he's a he's a

2592
03:03:05.959 --> 03:03:09.239
Green Beret, you know, operating
you know, part of you know the

2593
03:03:09.319 --> 03:03:16.879
alphabet super shit, you know that's
in d C, right, and and

2594
03:03:16.040 --> 03:03:18.559
you know we're going, you know, we're sharing war stories and stuff like

2595
03:03:18.639 --> 03:03:26.399
that. And you know, Bobby
or aka Lou, right, he fucking

2596
03:03:26.440 --> 03:03:31.399
he failed SLC the first time he
went. And it was a PT test.

2597
03:03:31.479 --> 03:03:35.840
A fucking Green beret failing a PT
test is a goddamn red flag as

2598
03:03:37.040 --> 03:03:39.159
high as a red flag as you
can possibly imagine, you know. And

2599
03:03:39.360 --> 03:03:45.680
and this is a high performance dude, safartic, a saut fucking halo right,

2600
03:03:46.600 --> 03:03:48.319
way more schools than I have,
right, you know what I mean?

2601
03:03:48.520 --> 03:03:54.440
Like high performing dude. And I
remember this guy, well, not

2602
03:03:54.680 --> 03:03:58.200
name, I forget the fucking name. I give him the book, but

2603
03:03:58.399 --> 03:04:03.399
we'll call him shithead for lack of
a better word. He went to SLC

2604
03:04:03.559 --> 03:04:07.120
the same time I did with Bobby. So this is Bobby's second round of

2605
03:04:07.200 --> 03:04:09.799
going to fucking SLC. And when
I was working on Battalion staff, I'd

2606
03:04:09.920 --> 03:04:13.680
like, you know, he was
S three air and he's working his fucking

2607
03:04:13.760 --> 03:04:18.239
ass off moving oda's all over Asia, right, and I'm like, hey,

2608
03:04:18.280 --> 03:04:20.120
man, we gotta go running.
I know you failed two mile,

2609
03:04:20.200 --> 03:04:24.520
dude, I fucking got you.
I was training for an ultra, right,

2610
03:04:24.600 --> 03:04:26.799
So I'm like dragging his ass out
during lunchtime. You know, heated

2611
03:04:26.840 --> 03:04:30.559
a day type shit to get ready
for. I mean, we're in Okie.

2612
03:04:30.600 --> 03:04:33.079
The heat's way worse than it is
at Fort Bragg, right, And

2613
03:04:33.200 --> 03:04:35.440
so I'm like trying to I'm trying
to bring him, you know, bring

2614
03:04:35.520 --> 03:04:39.319
him into the fucking fold, right, being just a good dude. Right,

2615
03:04:39.799 --> 03:04:43.680
And so we go out to SLC. He fails a PT test again.

2616
03:04:45.239 --> 03:04:46.120
I'm like, bro, what are
you doing? Man, come on,

2617
03:04:46.280 --> 03:04:48.399
you can do this, right,
you know, trying to give him

2618
03:04:48.440 --> 03:04:52.600
PEP talk. I was on a
different team, and then he ends up

2619
03:04:52.639 --> 03:04:58.440
failing the PT test again. So
like Army standard or whatever the Army protocol

2620
03:04:58.520 --> 03:05:03.239
is, like, you fail a
P Professional Military Education course needed for promotion

2621
03:05:03.399 --> 03:05:05.840
twice you're out, And I think
that's what happened to him. I say,

2622
03:05:05.840 --> 03:05:09.399
I think that's what happened to him
because I lost, you know,

2623
03:05:09.680 --> 03:05:13.479
going to the clandestine life. Yeah, I didn't really talk to many guys,

2624
03:05:15.000 --> 03:05:16.399
you know, back in Oki and
shit like that, and you know,

2625
03:05:16.559 --> 03:05:20.799
all around first group and stuff.
So I'm meeting with this this friend

2626
03:05:20.840 --> 03:05:24.399
of mine who I'd known for a
long time. We went to new work

2627
03:05:24.440 --> 03:05:31.559
together, and this fucking dude has
a goddamn motherfucking audacity to say, hey,

2628
03:05:33.879 --> 03:05:41.879
you know that piece of shit he
killed himself? What in me?

2629
03:05:43.120 --> 03:05:46.920
Struggling? I was in the fucking
depths of mind to stare despair summer twenty

2630
03:05:46.000 --> 03:05:50.520
twenty, still struggling every day to
figure out why, you know, ask

2631
03:05:50.680 --> 03:05:58.159
myself, why doing the you know, all these things? And I hate

2632
03:05:58.200 --> 03:06:03.040
myself because the only encourage I had
was to say he was a good dude,

2633
03:06:03.879 --> 03:06:05.799
when deep down, the man who
I am would have beat the fucking

2634
03:06:05.840 --> 03:06:11.719
shit out of that kid, you
know, And that's what motivated you to

2635
03:06:11.760 --> 03:06:15.840
write this book. That's one the
reason why I wrote this fucking book.

2636
03:06:16.239 --> 03:06:18.000
One hundred percent the reason why I
wrote this book. I wrote it for

2637
03:06:18.079 --> 03:06:22.719
all my buddies, you know,
GB Green Beret friends, you know saw

2638
03:06:22.840 --> 03:06:26.760
friends, whoever's out there, you
know. And this is what I say,

2639
03:06:28.040 --> 03:06:35.000
come back to. Not just Bobby
right, not just Jake right.

2640
03:06:35.200 --> 03:06:39.120
I found out, like not that
long ago, a bunch of guys like

2641
03:06:39.239 --> 03:06:45.239
Matt Hayes, guy starved with,
died by suicide. So many examples of

2642
03:06:45.319 --> 03:06:50.079
this happening all the time, all
over everywhere. Right. But the power

2643
03:06:50.120 --> 03:06:54.879
in the fucking book isn't just telling
it. I mean, the power is

2644
03:06:54.920 --> 03:06:58.440
telling the story. But the thing
is is that when I got hit by

2645
03:06:58.520 --> 03:07:01.319
that concrete truck that I mentioned in
them a little while ago, I went

2646
03:07:01.520 --> 03:07:07.600
back to my little fucking English basement
apartment and I looked in the mirror the

2647
03:07:07.680 --> 03:07:11.719
same way I looked in the mirror
when I said when I was in New

2648
03:07:11.799 --> 03:07:13.559
York City, and I said,
what the fuck am I doing here?

2649
03:07:13.719 --> 03:07:18.120
And I said to myself, I
was like, I finally verbalized for the

2650
03:07:18.200 --> 03:07:22.559
first time. I was struggling for
months. I verbalized. I said,

2651
03:07:22.639 --> 03:07:24.479
I looked at myself in the eye. I said, I want to kill

2652
03:07:24.559 --> 03:07:31.280
myself. And I said twice,
I want to kill myself. And then

2653
03:07:31.360 --> 03:07:39.639
I said why, what the fuck
went wrong, and I did. I

2654
03:07:39.840 --> 03:07:43.079
took all this intel training that I
had, and I turned it against myself.

2655
03:07:45.520 --> 03:07:48.799
I was afraid because of what happened
to Jake to go to any sort

2656
03:07:48.840 --> 03:07:52.760
of mental health right, anything,
Right? So I sat there and I

2657
03:07:52.799 --> 03:07:56.559
said to myself, I was like, I wide myself to death. It's

2658
03:07:56.600 --> 03:08:01.440
the most important question you have as
a case officer is asking yourself why,

2659
03:08:03.040 --> 03:08:05.760
or asking excuse me, asking your
source why. So I turned it against

2660
03:08:05.760 --> 03:08:09.000
myself and I wied my fucking self
to death. I wied my like,

2661
03:08:09.079 --> 03:08:13.760
why did this relationship fail? Why
did I not have boundaries? Why?

2662
03:08:13.879 --> 03:08:16.600
You know, I didn't even understand
what boundaries were then at that point,

2663
03:08:16.920 --> 03:08:20.559
right, But like, you know, why did I let this happen to

2664
03:08:20.680 --> 03:08:24.000
me? Who the fuck am I? Where is this fucking kid that is

2665
03:08:24.159 --> 03:08:30.120
the grandson of jack Field dang the
Great Escape Pow, you know what I

2666
03:08:30.239 --> 03:08:31.799
mean? It was like, who
the fuck is this dude? Right?

2667
03:08:33.559 --> 03:08:37.319
I didn't even know myself at this
point. And I sat there and I

2668
03:08:37.399 --> 03:08:41.120
fucking said, I owned my ship, and that's why I tell people to

2669
03:08:41.200 --> 03:08:46.879
own your shit. I own my
shit. And the conclusion that I came

2670
03:08:46.959 --> 03:08:56.479
to at that time was that my
entire identity was tied to the value other

2671
03:08:56.600 --> 03:09:01.399
people had in me. I had
no control, right, and the uniform

2672
03:09:01.520 --> 03:09:07.920
does that being an intelligence operative does
that? You know, you're only a

2673
03:09:09.000 --> 03:09:11.239
Green Bereat does that? It's You're
only as good as like your ops.

2674
03:09:11.280 --> 03:09:13.520
You're only as good as the intelligence
produce. You're only as good as this,

2675
03:09:13.680 --> 03:09:18.520
right. And it was like this
fucking reckoning that I had to have

2676
03:09:18.719 --> 03:09:26.200
with myself. And I'm telling anybody
that's out there right now, if you're

2677
03:09:26.239 --> 03:09:30.319
struggling, you go into the darkness. When you come out, you will

2678
03:09:30.360 --> 03:09:35.639
never go back, and you will
unlock a fucking superpower because I am the

2679
03:09:35.719 --> 03:09:39.079
most genuine form of my fucking self
that I've ever been. And you know

2680
03:09:39.120 --> 03:09:43.120
what I mean, It's like I
look at that and what I had to

2681
03:09:43.239 --> 03:09:48.280
go through and talking to you know, in the book. Since it's been

2682
03:09:48.360 --> 03:09:50.000
out, I've had Green Beret friends
reach out to me. They're like,

2683
03:09:50.079 --> 03:09:52.520
bro, I went to the same
fucking thing. Yeah, right, And

2684
03:09:52.760 --> 03:09:56.840
it's like, what was that first
step for you that you you have this

2685
03:09:56.920 --> 03:10:01.639
epiphany like I have a problem,
Like what was it for you as far

2686
03:10:01.680 --> 03:10:07.120
as like your path to recovery getting
treatment? I think it was very not

2687
03:10:07.399 --> 03:10:16.559
unconventional, just like green berets are
a lot of it was realizing the negative

2688
03:10:16.600 --> 03:10:20.239
self talk, realizing the negative internal
dialogues. You know, when I started

2689
03:10:20.319 --> 03:10:24.440
looking wine, I was unpacking deeply. I was like, where's that coming

2690
03:10:24.479 --> 03:10:26.959
from? And then I started realizing
I would wake up every day and start

2691
03:10:28.040 --> 03:10:31.360
with this whole negative internal dialogue myself. Right, I would say, oh,

2692
03:10:33.000 --> 03:10:35.079
you know, we're not gonna get
what you want, We're not gonna

2693
03:10:35.079 --> 03:10:37.440
win. You suck, you suck, You're a piece of shit, right,

2694
03:10:37.559 --> 03:10:43.879
Like it was so rooted in self
hate, right, and it came

2695
03:10:43.959 --> 03:10:48.600
from a collective of a of a. It came from a collective of experiences

2696
03:10:48.959 --> 03:10:54.000
that led me there. That's what
trauma does, you know. Trauma Trauma

2697
03:10:54.079 --> 03:10:56.840
fucks you up, you know,
and and and and that's the thing.

2698
03:10:56.879 --> 03:11:00.879
It's like, doing what we do
in this job. It was to such

2699
03:11:01.040 --> 03:11:05.440
extremes, right, saw trucking extremes, right, And wh're working with extreme

2700
03:11:05.520 --> 03:11:07.639
personalities. I feel like, I
mean, I can be an extreme personality

2701
03:11:07.639 --> 03:11:09.879
at times. You know, trying
to convince a bunch of dudes to go

2702
03:11:09.959 --> 03:11:13.760
fucking murder isis on Christmas Day?
You know what I mean? Like,

2703
03:11:13.360 --> 03:11:18.479
sometimes it's a necessity other times,
you know, but other times it's just

2704
03:11:18.520 --> 03:11:22.559
for shits and grins. Yeah,
you can try to tell yourself that you're

2705
03:11:22.600 --> 03:11:26.639
some sort of like rogue outside or
outlier, but really we're all just part

2706
03:11:26.680 --> 03:11:31.440
of the colorful cast of characters,
absolut fucking dude. And the biggest thing

2707
03:11:31.600 --> 03:11:33.959
is that it doesn't matter how fucking
cool you are. We all put our

2708
03:11:35.000 --> 03:11:37.440
pants on the same every morning.
Yeah. And the thing is is that

2709
03:11:39.399 --> 03:11:45.399
I had to like really look at
myself internally and and just wrangle those internal

2710
03:11:45.479 --> 03:11:50.600
those negative internal dialogues that I was
having, Yeah, And it didn't come

2711
03:11:50.719 --> 03:11:56.159
with you know, I had a
subsequent you know, I was the operations

2712
03:11:56.319 --> 03:12:00.239
sergeant major or squadron sergeant major,
right, even though I didn't hold the

2713
03:12:00.280 --> 03:12:01.559
title of sergeant major, but I
was fill in the position, right.

2714
03:12:01.639 --> 03:12:07.600
So it's like, you know,
during those times, like you know,

2715
03:12:07.280 --> 03:12:11.040
I actually had fucking space to kind
of like really think about myself. But

2716
03:12:11.159 --> 03:12:18.040
the thing I never gave up.
And this is why I think exercise is

2717
03:12:18.120 --> 03:12:22.079
so important. And it's the same
thing like my grandfather always exercised, always

2718
03:12:22.159 --> 03:12:26.479
running, always boxing, Right,
I never gave up on it. I

2719
03:12:26.559 --> 03:12:30.200
was always going across your class every
day. I was always running, I

2720
03:12:30.280 --> 03:12:33.399
was always doing these things. I
was getting those little dopamine hits. I

2721
03:12:33.479 --> 03:12:39.159
was getting those little confidence boosters to
say, all right, hey, we're

2722
03:12:39.159 --> 03:12:43.399
good. You know what I mean, Like we're we're okay, things are

2723
03:12:43.479 --> 03:12:46.799
fine. And it would, it
would, it would calm the internal storm,

2724
03:12:46.920 --> 03:12:50.520
yeah, you know. And it's
just I would say that I'm even

2725
03:12:50.840 --> 03:12:56.840
now. And here's the thing.
The healing journey never ends. It never

2726
03:12:56.959 --> 03:13:01.799
does. And I'm learning stuff about
myself every fucking week now, peeling that

2727
03:13:01.959 --> 03:13:07.079
goddamn onion. Yeah right, And
it's not like and here's the thing.

2728
03:13:07.120 --> 03:13:11.479
It's like so many people want to
undo and forget that identity of being a

2729
03:13:11.559 --> 03:13:15.639
GB, being a greenberry, being
a ranger, being everything else. I'll

2730
03:13:15.719 --> 03:13:18.920
never stop being fucking dangerous. I'm
sorry, Like you know, that's that's

2731
03:13:18.000 --> 03:13:22.719
like kind of the more you have, the more you try to run away

2732
03:13:22.799 --> 03:13:26.559
from it, the more problematic it
becomes. Right, doesn't really work.

2733
03:13:26.760 --> 03:13:30.520
After fucking lily, I see fucking
LinkedIn posts dudes being like, oh I

2734
03:13:30.639 --> 03:13:33.559
finally let go. There's some like
shot that fuck up? Yeah right,

2735
03:13:33.319 --> 03:13:37.280
You're a dangerous human beings just accepted
for what it is right, you know

2736
03:13:37.360 --> 03:13:39.760
what I mean, But like it's
a temperament and I think really is like

2737
03:13:39.959 --> 03:13:45.360
as a warrior, right, adopting
this warrior mindset, like you have to

2738
03:13:45.440 --> 03:13:48.319
have a mentor. I have mentors, right, I have coaches, I

2739
03:13:48.399 --> 03:13:52.600
have people I trust, you know, and they're all green berets. And

2740
03:13:54.000 --> 03:13:58.760
you know, when you think of
this sort of warrior ethos, to this

2741
03:13:58.920 --> 03:14:03.360
warrior ideology is like you're hanging up
the rucksack, right, but you're still

2742
03:14:03.399 --> 03:14:05.399
true to who you are, you
know, And that was I was a

2743
03:14:05.479 --> 03:14:09.479
warrior when I was eight years old, fucking climbing up La Fayette, you

2744
03:14:09.600 --> 03:14:13.000
know what I mean, with dad
like trying to keep me from blowing off

2745
03:14:13.000 --> 03:14:18.399
the side of the fucking mountain.
But like warriors are forged, they're not

2746
03:14:18.559 --> 03:14:22.719
born, right, And the thing
is is I feel as though, and

2747
03:14:22.799 --> 03:14:26.840
this is something I'm still figuring out
now, is you know, living with

2748
03:14:26.959 --> 03:14:31.799
this and it's not. I'm still
who I am and I'm proud, you

2749
03:14:31.879 --> 03:14:35.879
know, have pride in who you
are and pride for the things that you've

2750
03:14:35.920 --> 03:14:41.000
been through, and the things that
you've been through make you more resilient.

2751
03:14:41.280 --> 03:14:45.520
Yeah, And don't forget how fucking
strong you are, you know, because

2752
03:14:45.920 --> 03:14:50.159
this is the thing I love that
green Beret will say say more about you

2753
03:14:50.879 --> 03:14:56.600
than you ever will say about yourself, and that is fucking facts. We

2754
03:14:56.719 --> 03:15:01.799
have questions for Dave Sweet and if
you guys want to pick up his book

2755
03:15:01.120 --> 03:15:05.719
Into the Darkness, there's gonna be
a link down in the description. I

2756
03:15:05.799 --> 03:15:07.680
read it on my kindle. You
can also pick up a hard copy.

2757
03:15:07.879 --> 03:15:13.399
Hope you guys will go and check
it out. We also just passed like

2758
03:15:13.479 --> 03:15:16.399
two weeks. It's an audiobook is
available too, awesome. Did you read

2759
03:15:16.399 --> 03:15:18.840
it or did you have somebody else
to do it? I now read it.

2760
03:15:20.120 --> 03:15:22.079
Yeah, of course, plenty of
you know quotes from my father,

2761
03:15:22.520 --> 03:15:28.959
you know, said with a thick
Bosston accent. So there, wait,

2762
03:15:28.040 --> 03:15:35.600
where's my show? Chat? Okay? Uh so somebody somebody I haven't been

2763
03:15:35.600 --> 03:15:37.879
able to pay attention to chat and
pay attention to you, but I think

2764
03:15:37.920 --> 03:15:43.680
there's somebody who knows you in chat, who's been uh, who's been cheering

2765
03:15:43.959 --> 03:15:50.040
cheering you on JWS nineteen eighty three, not not I think that's anyway.

2766
03:15:52.239 --> 03:15:54.959
But let's see here, what are
are I think that's who it was,

2767
03:15:54.000 --> 03:15:58.000
I'm not sure. Uh. Okay, So questions. M Corbyn, thank

2768
03:15:58.040 --> 03:16:03.719
you very much. What happened with
the eese knife and assault lift during seer?

2769
03:16:07.159 --> 03:16:13.360
I love you? Chris So Sere
school, I was, uh,

2770
03:16:16.360 --> 03:16:18.879
we're in CRC and we're going to
survival survival mode. So there's like three

2771
03:16:18.920 --> 03:16:22.959
phase. There's a couple phases,
right, you know, you do you

2772
03:16:22.120 --> 03:16:26.840
do your evasion right, and we
were in the survival phase. So we

2773
03:16:28.000 --> 03:16:31.239
ended up we evaded like it's like
eighteen fucking miles on, like no food

2774
03:16:31.680 --> 03:16:37.200
or sleep, and we're at our
survival site. And here was the thing

2775
03:16:37.360 --> 03:16:41.200
like having done like you know,
being an eagle scout, done winter survival,

2776
03:16:41.280 --> 03:16:46.520
building shelters and everything else, you
know, to save we need food

2777
03:16:46.520 --> 03:16:50.319
at that time. So I was
like, hey, all right, I'll

2778
03:16:50.399 --> 03:16:56.360
build us the fucking Hilton in the
woods. You guys go forge food and

2779
03:16:56.639 --> 03:17:01.000
like you know in all these military
lanes right like their pick try, and

2780
03:17:01.079 --> 03:17:05.079
we were right it was it was
I think it was January February was our

2781
03:17:05.559 --> 03:17:09.520
serier school. So there was fucking
nothing right, right, there was nothing

2782
03:17:09.680 --> 03:17:16.159
And and I remember here's my thing. I packed the packing list. Every

2783
03:17:16.239 --> 03:17:20.239
time, you know, I've seen
guys get like scuffed up for having too

2784
03:17:20.280 --> 03:17:22.520
much shit. But you know,
one of my buddies on that team,

2785
03:17:24.159 --> 03:17:26.280
you know, he had this like
boozy, bougie ass knife, right,

2786
03:17:26.760 --> 03:17:28.840
and I was like, hey man, you know, can I borrow this?

2787
03:17:30.520 --> 03:17:35.000
You know? And I hack this
fucking thing up. I'm like chopping

2788
03:17:35.120 --> 03:17:39.639
branches. I'm trying to build this
like beautiful shelter, right, cover concealment.

2789
03:17:39.120 --> 03:17:41.959
Right, I'm not gonna lie.
Everyone was warm and dry, not

2790
03:17:43.040 --> 03:17:46.479
gonna lie, but it was warm
and dry at night. But like I

2791
03:17:46.600 --> 03:17:48.319
ended up like chip putting a bunch
of chips in it, you know,

2792
03:17:48.360 --> 03:17:52.559
a chip in the dent. I
mean, this is a survival situation,

2793
03:17:52.719 --> 03:17:54.879
right this right, don't bring a
bougie knife, Like, don't bring a

2794
03:17:54.959 --> 03:17:58.559
knife you don't want to use in
the field. Did you? Did you

2795
03:17:58.680 --> 03:18:01.239
not just hear that crests side,
because that's what I just heard, right.

2796
03:18:01.520 --> 03:18:05.680
But but anyway, so to this
day, he always gives me shit

2797
03:18:05.760 --> 03:18:09.799
about it, like, you know, and I'll never fucking live it down.

2798
03:18:09.920 --> 03:18:13.000
So you know, hopefully we pick
up some copies of the book and

2799
03:18:13.040 --> 03:18:15.559
I'll buy him a new fucking knife
and can get off my ass about it.

2800
03:18:15.639 --> 03:18:18.600
But like it was, it was
really fucking funny. And did you

2801
03:18:18.639 --> 03:18:22.200
guys have as salt like to attract
game or something. I don't I don't

2802
03:18:22.200 --> 03:18:26.479
really remember. Probably I think so, yeah, like because we were in

2803
03:18:26.600 --> 03:18:31.680
like a hunting area, I think, and they were recawning just to see

2804
03:18:31.680 --> 03:18:35.319
if like any deer whatsoever. And
I mean we're only armed with like what

2805
03:18:35.479 --> 03:18:43.360
you build, right, so fucking
you know I had were they eighteen bravos

2806
03:18:43.440 --> 03:18:46.000
yet? I don't know if they
were eighteen Bravos. I don't know if

2807
03:18:46.000 --> 03:18:50.120
they did back then we did ms
after seer it's different now, I don't

2808
03:18:50.159 --> 03:18:54.360
know. But like they're constructing like
bone and arrows, you know, like

2809
03:18:54.520 --> 03:18:56.719
trying to make like all right,
how do we bag a deer? Yeah,

2810
03:18:56.879 --> 03:19:01.399
like bare minimum? Right, I
think like it was just it was

2811
03:19:01.479 --> 03:19:09.719
really funny, but we just ended
up starving. That's the trend. Yeah,

2812
03:19:09.719 --> 03:19:11.360
I mean survival is it is his
own thing. I think it's one

2813
03:19:11.399 --> 03:19:15.120
of the reasons why they took it
out, like took the main part of

2814
03:19:15.280 --> 03:19:18.520
part of it out of like the
old ranger schools, because it's like like,

2815
03:19:18.600 --> 03:19:20.760
if you're trying to survive behind enemy
lines, you're not hitting your ENNI

2816
03:19:20.879 --> 03:19:24.000
lanes, like you're not You're not
actually doing your job. Yeah, you

2817
03:19:24.079 --> 03:19:26.879
know, I mean obviously you should
know how to you know, get food

2818
03:19:26.920 --> 03:19:31.520
if you need it. But it's
really interesting, Like it definitely is a

2819
03:19:31.840 --> 03:19:33.479
it's it's just a grit test,
yeah, you know, and it's like

2820
03:19:33.559 --> 03:19:37.159
how bad do you want to be
here? And the thing I love about

2821
03:19:37.200 --> 03:19:41.120
to your school is like, you
see, like that dude that I was

2822
03:19:41.200 --> 03:19:43.159
with, like you know, we're
in the phase where you know, we're

2823
03:19:43.200 --> 03:19:48.600
all fucking POW's and ship and I
remember me and him like stages fight and

2824
03:19:48.719 --> 03:19:52.239
he's he's a hardcore New Yorker and
I'm from Boston, so he's like the

2825
03:19:52.319 --> 03:19:56.520
fucking Red Sox suck and I'm like, fuck you fucking nik suck. Right,

2826
03:19:56.799 --> 03:19:58.600
you just start beating the ship out
of each other, right, And

2827
03:19:58.799 --> 03:20:01.079
you know that was what we were
told by s ro Oh senior ranking officer

2828
03:20:01.120 --> 03:20:05.479
and senior ranking elisted right, So
it was just like it was really cool.

2829
03:20:05.520 --> 03:20:09.879
But you also saw guys who like
shie away and you're like, hmmm,

2830
03:20:09.120 --> 03:20:11.600
are you really all about this ship? But you know what I mean,

2831
03:20:11.799 --> 03:20:16.600
like yeah, yeah, m Corman, thank you, thanks again.

2832
03:20:16.760 --> 03:20:22.959
Is there any true to notion I
mean of the brain being able to orient

2833
03:20:24.200 --> 03:20:31.200
uh, orientate process and decide on
any four things in the smallest perceivable time

2834
03:20:31.280 --> 03:20:35.520
frame. What in the fuck that
is some big brain ship And I wish

2835
03:20:35.600 --> 03:20:37.879
I was on a gramo psilocybin and
really fully answered that the next question,

2836
03:20:39.200 --> 03:20:46.360
but yeah, any four things.
I don't know, bro, this isn't

2837
03:20:46.399 --> 03:20:50.440
a Tibetan temple, Okay. I
mean we try our best here, but

2838
03:20:54.000 --> 03:20:58.479
I mean from personal experience, i'd
say no, Like when when when you

2839
03:20:58.719 --> 03:21:03.200
like orient Like like that's where what
target fixation is? Right? Like you

2840
03:21:03.479 --> 03:21:09.239
you have one thing in your your
view and that thing overcomes all other things.

2841
03:21:09.360 --> 03:21:13.559
And I think probably doing this sheer
amount of CQB training I've done,

2842
03:21:13.799 --> 03:21:18.120
and the biggest thing that you learn
is taking your eyes out of the out

2843
03:21:18.120 --> 03:21:20.760
of the scope, right, or
taking your out of the reflex site.

2844
03:21:20.840 --> 03:21:24.680
Right. It's being down here,
yeah and looking yeah, and then just

2845
03:21:26.440 --> 03:21:30.079
you know what I mean, O
d A right, yeah, right.

2846
03:21:30.200 --> 03:21:33.159
And And that's that's kind of how
I take that question. It's it's it

2847
03:21:33.280 --> 03:21:37.159
comes with, it's discipline, it's
training, it's you know, it's a

2848
03:21:37.200 --> 03:21:41.920
lot of different things. It's like
you know your your reaction and in building

2849
03:21:41.840 --> 03:21:48.159
when you learn new skills you build
new connections and neurons and brains, so

2850
03:21:48.200 --> 03:21:50.920
it's like very important to I would
say, how I reply that, how

2851
03:21:50.959 --> 03:21:52.920
do I do that? Now?
On the Similian side, you know,

2852
03:21:52.959 --> 03:21:54.760
I just learned to ski this past
winter. I fucking love it, right,

2853
03:21:54.799 --> 03:21:56.280
you know what I mean? And
I'm going to continue to like,

2854
03:21:56.360 --> 03:21:58.760
you know, learn new skills and
stuff like that that I never did.

2855
03:21:58.799 --> 03:22:03.639
It's vicial forces. So I think
probably how do you develop a better,

2856
03:22:03.959 --> 03:22:07.959
you know, a more lethal mind
is always be learning new things, growth

2857
03:22:07.000 --> 03:22:15.760
mindset, you know so? Uh? Jennery Colly, thank you very much.

2858
03:22:16.760 --> 03:22:22.360
Did you ever meet former Norwich Commandant
Chacala and if so, did he

2859
03:22:22.559 --> 03:22:28.360
tell you about his time with the
cords program? Uh? No, I

2860
03:22:28.520 --> 03:22:35.440
never met him. My time at
Norwich was from three to seven and Rear

2861
03:22:35.559 --> 03:22:41.840
Dmal Schneider was our commandant at the
time. Great dude, and uh but

2862
03:22:41.959 --> 03:22:45.760
no, I don't know that individual. Sorry. Sean McDonald, thank you

2863
03:22:45.840 --> 03:22:50.120
very much for subscribing. Eric,
thank you very much. I didn't see

2864
03:22:50.120 --> 03:22:52.319
a question. If there is one, throat and chat and I'll look for

2865
03:22:52.399 --> 03:22:54.159
it at the very bottom. Adam
White, hey, buddy, great to

2866
03:22:54.200 --> 03:22:58.959
see you. Great entertaining a great
entertaining and informed of show tonight. Guys

2867
03:23:00.520 --> 03:23:07.280
keep on rocking. Long lived Boston
Humans. I feel like every because Adam

2868
03:23:07.440 --> 03:23:11.319
is also you know, Adam's Boston
and he was a human turn. I

2869
03:23:11.000 --> 03:23:15.799
have this image in my mind of
every guy who does human being from Washington

2870
03:23:15.879 --> 03:23:18.440
is like from Boston, Like,
yeah, this source is wicked connected.

2871
03:23:20.239 --> 03:23:22.639
That's yeah, they're wicked sick dude, they got everything, you know what

2872
03:23:22.719 --> 03:23:26.920
I mean. Like it's like the
we're running the Whitey Bulger of fucking you

2873
03:23:28.000 --> 03:23:31.040
know what I mean, Like you
know you think you had Winter Hill Gang.

2874
03:23:31.399 --> 03:23:35.559
I don't know, right, but
it's it's just like we have such

2875
03:23:35.600 --> 03:23:37.719
a way with people up there.
Yeah, it really is like just a

2876
03:23:37.879 --> 03:23:41.040
very different way with people, and
you know, growing up growing up in

2877
03:23:41.079 --> 03:23:45.879
that environment, like we're all like
no one's no one's shy to be like

2878
03:23:45.920 --> 03:23:48.200
what the fuck's up with you?
Dude? Yeah, what's the matter?

2879
03:23:48.440 --> 03:23:50.799
Right? You know what I mean? Like it just they'll pry, you

2880
03:23:50.879 --> 03:23:56.600
know, they'll reach into you,
and it's just otherwise like don't make eye

2881
03:23:56.639 --> 03:24:01.760
contact on the fucking street, right, you know why. It's just it's

2882
03:24:01.840 --> 03:24:09.319
such a weird Boston is such a
very aggressive but incredibly like emotional, you

2883
03:24:09.399 --> 03:24:11.639
know it tie in like so like
I like to joke, I like,

2884
03:24:11.719 --> 03:24:16.319
you know, I grew up my
my mother's My mother was Italian. She

2885
03:24:16.440 --> 03:24:18.520
passed away a few years ago,
but she's Italian. My father's Irish and

2886
03:24:18.559 --> 03:24:24.200
English. Right, fucking fiery relationship, man, I bet fiery relationship.

2887
03:24:24.120 --> 03:24:30.600
But like and like Boston thing thrown
on top of the Boston thing, right,

2888
03:24:30.639 --> 03:24:33.280
it's like a force multiplayer. Yeah, totally. I mean my father,

2889
03:24:33.600 --> 03:24:37.239
like, I love him to death, but he's like a fucking cartoon

2890
03:24:37.360 --> 03:24:41.520
character in terms of like, you
know, Boston fucking tradesman. You know,

2891
03:24:43.360 --> 03:24:46.079
you know, it's just it's just
really funny. We're a special kind

2892
03:24:46.200 --> 03:24:50.040
up there, you know. Own
regard Luisascaz, thank you very much,

2893
03:24:50.479 --> 03:24:56.280
thank you for the amazing interview.
And what was your favorite driving experience?

2894
03:24:56.920 --> 03:25:00.680
My favorite driving experience, I feel
like it's a loaded question. Was the

2895
03:25:00.879 --> 03:25:05.000
driving course I went to? And
I would, oh, wait, I

2896
03:25:05.200 --> 03:25:09.399
know, I know this fucking question. I know what's trying to be said

2897
03:25:09.440 --> 03:25:13.239
here, all right? So is
this a setup? This is a setup,

2898
03:25:13.280 --> 03:25:15.600
And I'm gonna fucking tell it because
it's too good, all right.

2899
03:25:15.680 --> 03:25:18.239
So I'm doing a source I'm doing
a source meeting, right, and I

2900
03:25:18.280 --> 03:25:22.159
got two dudes with me. I
got one doing long eye, you know

2901
03:25:22.280 --> 03:25:24.440
long you know, long gun,
and I got guy doing one guy doing

2902
03:25:24.520 --> 03:25:28.159
near side security. And the guy
that's doing nearside security he's a former ranger,

2903
03:25:28.520 --> 03:25:33.959
right, fucking enormous human being,
just never miss a day at the

2904
03:25:35.000 --> 03:25:39.920
gym. And the guy that's doing
you know, my long eye is he

2905
03:25:39.239 --> 03:25:43.959
was uh former eighteen delta, right, And so I'm about to you know,

2906
03:25:45.399 --> 03:25:48.680
go do this fucking dick dance with
the source and everything else. And

2907
03:25:48.760 --> 03:25:54.680
and so we're in the car and
you know, you know, super ranger

2908
03:25:54.760 --> 03:25:58.200
there he you know, we got
the party bag of grenades, uh,

2909
03:25:58.319 --> 03:26:01.200
empty fucking five. Right, I'm
ready to go. He's ready to go,

2910
03:26:01.520 --> 03:26:05.440
rady, you know, ready for
anything. Right, and he pulls,

2911
03:26:07.479 --> 03:26:11.399
uh, you know, one of
the many brands of water you get

2912
03:26:11.399 --> 03:26:13.639
on deployment, So the little shitty
water ball. He goes, oh,

2913
03:26:13.159 --> 03:26:16.319
got a pee, And I'm like, dude, we're on the X man,

2914
03:26:16.879 --> 03:26:20.159
I'm about to meet the fucking sort
like we need to know. And

2915
03:26:20.280 --> 03:26:24.440
he's like, oh right, and
he's taking a piss and I have colms,

2916
03:26:26.079 --> 03:26:28.399
and you know, we're just like
several weeks. I'm several weeks on

2917
03:26:28.440 --> 03:26:35.440
this deployment, high stress right and
the long eye he's like, he's like,

2918
03:26:35.600 --> 03:26:37.639
is he taking a piss? And
I just start fucking dying laughing.

2919
03:26:39.600 --> 03:26:45.040
Here he is pissing in the car
and it was just outrageous. But it's

2920
03:26:45.120 --> 03:26:54.440
like this quintessential like soft dudes a
in a high stress situation just being ridiculous.

2921
03:26:54.479 --> 03:26:56.879
Yeah, you know what I mean, not taking anything serious, Yeah,

2922
03:26:56.200 --> 03:27:00.239
no shots are fired whatever. He
was like, yeah, I'm just

2923
03:27:00.239 --> 03:27:03.920
gonna take a piss right here.
And I'm laughing because he's this massive duty

2924
03:27:03.959 --> 03:27:07.639
He's got his long rifle between his
legs and how the fuck you you know,

2925
03:27:07.799 --> 03:27:09.399
with plates on, Like how the
fuck are you doing this? You

2926
03:27:09.479 --> 03:27:13.680
know, Ye're all like rolling like
low viz plates. But it's fucking funny.

2927
03:27:15.280 --> 03:27:18.360
It's it's sort of the quintessential.
Uh what what do the kids say?

2928
03:27:18.440 --> 03:27:22.000
Now? I d g a f
like I don't give a fuck culture

2929
03:27:22.399 --> 03:27:26.000
Like it's just like yeah, and
it's like, uh, we're probably not

2930
03:27:26.120 --> 03:27:30.840
gonna get shot at. Things are
fine, and you know, like danger

2931
03:27:30.959 --> 03:27:33.440
is a very relative thing to a
Green Beret, a ranger, and you

2932
03:27:33.520 --> 03:27:39.559
know, we kind of think of
those extreme circumstances, like honestly, it's

2933
03:27:39.600 --> 03:27:45.680
like I'm meeting a dude in an
alley way, you know, it's it's

2934
03:27:45.719 --> 03:27:50.520
whatever, right, Like it can't
what is gonna really happen? Right,

2935
03:27:50.600 --> 03:27:52.959
you know what I mean? Like
and just looking for what it is,

2936
03:27:54.319 --> 03:28:03.559
Delta Zulu, thank you very much. So he's he's asking, uh so,

2937
03:28:03.760 --> 03:28:07.559
first off, I'll say what he
said, great interviewer, a great

2938
03:28:07.639 --> 03:28:09.520
interview, by the way, and
thank you for your service. And then

2939
03:28:09.719 --> 03:28:15.120
he's asking specifics about units you guys
worked with and deconflictions. And I'm just

2940
03:28:15.200 --> 03:28:18.120
going to answer that form and say
that he worked with a variety of task

2941
03:28:18.159 --> 03:28:22.040
forces and units, and we won't
go into specifics like which units specifically.

2942
03:28:22.200 --> 03:28:24.840
Yeah, I can't really go Unfortunately, I can't go like you know,

2943
03:28:24.879 --> 03:28:28.040
I can only go what's been approved
in the book. But you know,

2944
03:28:28.319 --> 03:28:33.680
it's it's just this massive enterprise,
you know, between it's this cohesion between

2945
03:28:35.000 --> 03:28:41.280
you know, top units and three
letter agencies and everybody gets to say and

2946
03:28:41.360 --> 03:28:46.000
it's at times it's very competitive,
but you know, we figure we figure

2947
03:28:46.079 --> 03:28:48.959
the fuck out and we work together
and make great things happen, you know.

2948
03:28:48.040 --> 03:28:52.879
Yeah, So I just want to
remind people please check out our patreons

2949
03:28:54.000 --> 03:28:58.159
down the description and you subscribe to
us and get all these episodes ad free.

2950
03:29:00.159 --> 03:29:07.319
D Who do we have next week? Is it Alan? Okay?

2951
03:29:09.600 --> 03:29:13.840
Well one second? So yeah,
is there anything else you want to tell

2952
03:29:13.879 --> 03:29:16.920
people about the book Into the Darkness? Check it out. I mean they

2953
03:29:16.959 --> 03:29:20.239
can find it on Amazon. Absolutely, you can find it on Amazon.

2954
03:29:20.360 --> 03:29:24.520
There, it's on audible, Spotify, A lot of the audiobook is on

2955
03:29:24.639 --> 03:29:30.719
myriad of apps. Hard copy,
hard copy covers available paperback but Amazon.

2956
03:29:30.840 --> 03:29:33.920
To find it the easiest way just
look up Into the Darkness by Dave Fielding

2957
03:29:35.600 --> 03:29:41.840
and yeah, man, be ready
for a good ride. Can we have

2958
03:29:41.879 --> 03:29:46.959
anything on patron negative? No,
But next week we have David Nielsen from

2959
03:29:46.079 --> 03:29:56.639
a Army special missing a great to
talk to him. We missed no.

2960
03:29:56.879 --> 03:30:00.239
No, thank you guys very much
for having me on this. Yeah,

2961
03:30:00.440 --> 03:30:03.959
we covered it has been about three
and a half hours. Yeah we covered

2962
03:30:05.000 --> 03:30:07.879
a lot, Yeah for sure,
but also just scratched the surface. So

2963
03:30:09.120 --> 03:30:13.600
I hope people will go and check
out the book Into the Darkness and we'll

2964
03:30:13.639 --> 03:30:16.000
be back next Friday. Thanks everybody, Thank you, Thanks Dave