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Welcome to Open Minds Radio with Alejandro
Roja. Open Minds Radio is the UFO

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news authority presenting evidence and the latest
news regarding the UFO phenomena. Here's your

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host, Alejandro Roja. Thank you
for that wonderful introduction. This is Alejandro

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Rojas, your host for the evening, and I will be taking you on

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a wonderful trip through the beautiful planes
of Roswell. Were a UFO crashed and

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there were aliens and they freaked people
out, and the government hit them away

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and threatened people and lied to people, and oh my gosh, it's this

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crazy drama that is going to unfold
this evening right before your very ears.

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We have on as part of a
Roswell special because Roswell happened in early July.

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July third is when they I think
the actual craft crashed, which is

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coming up here in just a few
days. I know it's almost July already.

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My birthdays in July. That means
I'm going to be another year old.

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We have one of the top experts, Tom Carry on the show tonight.

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He has been researching Roswell for a
long time and it is now part

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of the dynamic duel with Don Schmidt. These are the top guys researching Roswell

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now, and he's written the last
book, Witness to Roswell with Don,

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and they've been doing a lot of
research. So we're going to talk to

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him about that research. Of course, what he thinks of Annie Jacobson's Area

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fifty one book, which recently alleged
that Roswell was due to, you know,

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the Russians dealing with the Nazis and
all kinds of craziness. So we'll

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talk about that and many other things. So this is going to be a

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lot of fun. And Antonio and
I are going to see Don and Tom

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and San Friedman read top UFO researchers. I think he has another one.

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Kevin Randall's gonna be there too,
So the top four those are really the

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top four in Roswell. Because we're
gonna be at the Roswell. He's in

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Antonio and I selling magazines and open
mind stuff. So come and see us,

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Come and see Tom and Don and
Stanton and everybody. Sit on Stanton's

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lap. He kind of looks like
Santa Claus, and you can make your

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Santa Claus wish there and it'll be
your Roswell wish he's a Roswell Santa Claus

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Man. It'll be a lot of
fun. Hell, he loves that,

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he loves the attention. And as
long as you buy a book, i'm

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sure you'll let you sit on this
lap and he'll sign up for you while

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you're there. So it's gonna be
a lot of fun this weekend, And

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it's gonna be a lot of fun
tonight talking to Tom. So, like

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I said, Roswell this weekend,
there's still rooms available. Actually, I

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was just reading in the news.
We've posted some news last week about Roswell

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and they said that there are rooms
available if you want to get a room

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to go check out the festivities there. So of course that's over the July

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fourth weekend, from the first to
the fourth. And I want to advise

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you we're not going to have a
show on the Force because Antonio and I

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will be coming back from Roswell and
all of you will be out partying and

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blowing stuff up, because that's what
we do. We light firecrackers and blow

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stuff up. For some reason,
I'm not sure why. Maybe it's to

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threaten the British that you better not
come back and because we'll blow you up.

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We've got everybody's got explosives in America
and weapons and we will blow you

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up. And it's that's probably why
we blow stuff up to keep him from

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coming back. We should do that
in front of the British Embassy then be

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like, you know, come on, you little wissie's we don't care if

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you bring James Bond, we'll blow
him up too. Put an m ad

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down his pants. So that's my
theory as to why we blow stuff up

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on Independence Day. Move On is
also coming up, the move On Symposium.

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Of course, we've had some of
their speakers as guests recently and that's

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going to be July twenty ninth through
the thirty first. Also, we do

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have a new online video up with
some news and information about our new magazine,

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Hollywood and UFOs. How exciting does
that sound? Well, if that

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sounds exciting, you're going to be
even more excited when you see the magazine

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because it's really cool. When we've
got a YouTube you can watch on that.

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Although we've got another YouTube video that
our news correspondent Jason McClellan put up

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that's like skyrocketed almost has one hundred
thousand views so far and you've probably seen

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that, because well, we have
about five hundred thousand listeners probably listening right

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now, maybe even three millions.
Not all of them have watched yet,

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because only one hundred thousand have watched, So go watch that video. I

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may be exaggerating our numbers a little
bit, but that person that I'm talking

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talking about, the news corresponding,
Jason McClellan, is actually in the studio

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to night because we put UFO News
up every day and Jason shares that UFO

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news with us. Jason, how
are you, buddy? Wonderful as usual,

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Alejandro, enjoying the stardom, the
stardom from your video doing so well

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that there is no stardom and I
enjoy that. Oh that's good too,

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Excellence. Well, thank you for
having me allejndro, It's good to be

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here, and greetings everyone. This
is your Open Minds News bree for Monday,

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June twenty seventh, twenty eleven.
There's a new film titled Montauk Chronicles,

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and it explores the legends of mind
control, time travel, and other

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experiments in the presence of extraterrestrials that
supposedly took place at Camp hero A.

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Now decommissioned Air Force base in Montauk, New York. Tales of experiments being

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conducted on nearly one hundred thousand people
over the course of ten years. Kidnapping's

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murder, torture, time travel,
mind control, and extraterrestrial contact are all

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said to have occurred at Camp hero
And this movie has a release date of

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July seventh of this year. And
Lee Spiegel from AOL sat down with the

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film's creator recently and spoke to him
about the process of making this film and

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his research and actually filming some of
it at Camp Heiro. But all,

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Hundra, what is your take on
all of this mon Talk story stuff.

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Well, I think the Montalk base
it does look interesting, more interesting than

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I thought. It used to look
like maybe it was just his tower,

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but it Yeah, it looks like
it was mostly underground in this park.

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But it's a park where like people
go, I mean, it's a park

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where people can go. You can't
go into these old bunkers or whatever.

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But yeah, the Montak cool story
is really zany crazy stuff with stargates and

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people going to Mars and time traveling, and there was even and I can't

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remember the details about stealing Jesus's spear
in order to save his life or something

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like that. They were doing all
these crazy battles aliens coming through the stargates

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and wreaking havoc, and I guess
they just like throw them through, get

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out of here, jerk and throw
them back, really really crazy wild stuff.

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So maybe there was I think,
you know, Spiegel kind of kind

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of alludes to in his story.
I think that maybe there were some brainwashing

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type of experimentation going on there.
Who knows. But it's a closed base

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now, and I really this Zanier
stuff, I'm not sure if I buy.

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Honestly, it's like the coolest thing
for me about that story. In

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the video that Spiegel did with the
film's creator, seeing the photos of the

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actual base. Yeah, seeing those
you know, manhole covers for the underground

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whatever and things. Parts of the
completely walled off with these brick walls and

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things just completely closed differences. Google
and I called Antonio overlook, And if

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you Google, you can google in
on some of that stuff, and you

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can google in on the big antenna
array and stuff is kind of neat.

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It's cool, interesting, Well,
it sounds like an interesting movie at least,

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so, but it sounds like it's
mostly an independent film, and now

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it looks like a documentary. It
does look like a documentary. Yeah,

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so it might be fun. It'll
be interesting, that's for sure. Right.

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Well, we talked about it last
week and we had a conversation about

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how I'd probably be speaking about it
again this week. And I'm not letting

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you down a Lejandro. I'm talking
about SETI, of course. Ah those

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The SETI, or Search for Extraterrestrial
Intelligence Institute, is seeking donations from the

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public to resume operations at the Allen
Telescope Array and had Creek, California.

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This move comes just two months after
Steady announced the indefinite suspension of operations the

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Allen Telescope Array due to budgetary cutbacks. SETI is calling their fundraising efforts SETI

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Stars and as The Huffington Post reports, the SETI Stars program was set up

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and presented to the SETI Institute by
a number of Silicon Valley technologists who wanted

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to help SETI raise money by creating
something that would take advantage of the evolving

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world of social networking. Tom Pearson, seti's CEO, told AOL that the

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institute's goal is to raise two hundred
thousand dollars from the public and combine that

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amount with funds that have already been
raised. This level of public support would

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enable SETI to resume operations, which
include utilizing their array of radio telescopes to

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listen for signals from extraterrestrials. According
to Pearson, the Allen telescope array costs

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brace yourself for this, okay,
it costs two and a half million dollars

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a year to operate. And you
and I had this conversation last week,

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Alejandro. There are so many things, so many other efforts that could be

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nicely benefited by two and a half
million dollars a year. With two and

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a half million dollars, I could
capture a flying saucer. Well, I

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don't know, but might at least
I could give it a good go.

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Certainly, it seems there are other
efforts out there other than listening for something

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that might not be there these weird
radio radio waves. But there are many

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other private companies right now working on
their spacecraft to go into space and explore,

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and it seems the money would be
better spent there. That's my opinion.

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I agree with you, yeah,
totally. I mean, if they

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wanted to send us a message they
could. I don't think we need to

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be doing these maybe having one guy
listening or paying attention, who's in charge

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of that? But I mean,
yeah, to spend all this money,

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like we're going to catch them off
guard. Ohen, we're going to catch

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one of their signals that was unintended. And as we pointed out before,

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said he's not the only organization doing
this. There are organizations around the world

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doing this with their radio telescopes.
Yeah, so two point five million dollars.

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I mean, I like what they're
doing, but you know, for

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that price tag, I think the
money's better spent elsewhere. We could have

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a network of people across the country
with infrared cameras and gear watching the skies

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every night. Yeah, we're much
better, better use of time and resources

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to have that many people watching for
UFOs, and then we can pay scientists

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to analyze this stuff, right and
you know, in a real sense and

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say, hey, you know,
get better things. And the skeptics telling

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us they're birds, right, but
we don't have two and a half million

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dollars a year. It's not up
to us, So we'll let them do

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what they do. Yeah, Well, in other news. Academy Award winning

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actor Morgan Freeman currently hosts a show
called Through the Wormhole on Discovery Network Science

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Channel. Freeman challenges viewers to ponder
the bold questions surrounding life and existence.

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According to The Hollywood Reporter, a
Huffington Post article recently stated, for Freeman,

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exploring the question of space and existence
has been a longtime love. One

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of his interests in science fiction.
It was that fiction that opened his eyes

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to the possibilities of reality. Freeman
ponders extraterrestrial life on the show. We've

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seen different manifestations of others, imaginations
of aliens. Aliens could look like anything.

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It depends a lot on their environment. We portray them as having two

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arms, two legs ahead, two
eyes, a nose, two ears,

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and that's not necessarily true. They
could look more lizardly, and they could

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look like anything. Freeman muses,
there's just no way of knowing. Through

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the Wormholes in its second season on
Science the show explored the topic of extraterrestrial

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life last season and continues to do
so this season. I just found out

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about this show, and I say
it looks pretty fascinating. Yeah, that's

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cool. I love Morgan Freeman.
Who doesn't love Morgan Freeman. I mean,

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he's one of the coolest guys,
does good work, guys on good

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stuff. That is one thing that
I liked about the War of the World's

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movie was his narration was great when
he did the Orson Wells pieces at the

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beginning and the end. That's about
all I liked of the New Or.

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He's one of my world raders.
Who doesn't love his voice? Yeah,

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he's great. He's really great.
So that is really exciting. Well,

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it's sort of an interesting side note. I mean, here's an actor who,

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on more than one occasion has portrayed
God. All right, that's true,

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and now he's hosting a show that's
taking a look at life. He's

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been the president at least once too, write I think so in that asteroid

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movie he was president, right,
right? But which asteroid movie? The

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one without the one with Bruce willis
the other one? The other one?

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Deep Impact? Deep Impact? There
you go, I like that one better.

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Yeah. Well. Scientists believe that
one of Saturn's moons might have a

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salty ocean beneath it, beneath its
icy shell. A team of scientists use

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the Cassini space probe's cosmic dust analyzer
sounds cool. That probe has a cosmic

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dust analyzer on it sounds like star
Trek. They use this to examine plumes

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of water spouting from geysers on Saturn's
icy moon and Slatus. Analysts show that

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the particles closer to the Moon's surface
have a high salt concentration. Previous studies

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found low amounts of salt and particles
that make up Saturn's rings, but by

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sampling the geysers directly, research were
able to Research was able to determine that

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more than ninety nine percent of the
ice around the geyser is salt rich.

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According to space dot Com, this
new study suggests that the reservoirs that feed

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the Moon's geysers connect to a larger
ocean approximately fifty miles underground. Frank Postberg

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of the University of Heidelberg, who
led the study, point os out space

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dot Com that an underground ocean on
Ensulatus could be a target for locating extraterrestrial

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life. Space dot Com summarized Postbergs
explanation. Unlike other unseen oceans in the

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Solar System, the water on Ensulatus
is fairly easy to reach Jupiter's moon Europa,

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for instance, could have an ocean
under a layer of ice, but

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retrieving it would require significant effort.
By contrast, the geysers on ensulatas pole

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material and potentially life should it exist
there from its oceans and shoot it into

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space. The research was published in
the June twenty second online edition of the

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journal Nature. Yeah, that's really
exciting. I mean, a second planet

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with an underwater ocean. That is
just I love the thought of that because

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your imagination runs wild of the type
of creatures that could be in some sort

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of extraterrestrial ocean, right, and
what if life evolved there and became intelligent,

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I mean, an underwater civilization.
How cool is that? Then,

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just in the pescal of months,
we've also talked about new studies that add

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to the evidence to support that there
is an ocean underground ocean on Titan as

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well, another one of Saturn's moons. Yeah, that's exciting. What if

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there's an advanced civilization under water there. They came here and they have a

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secret base under the water. Maybe
though it's supposed based by Puerto Rico,

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that's these guys, it's certainly a
possibility there Allejandro amazing. But it's discoveries

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like this that, you know,
force us to rethink our search for extraterrestrial

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life. Because we've talked about this
before, it seems like there's a closed

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minded approach where they're just looking for
another Earth. Yeah, it's got to

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be exactly like Earth, or else
there can't be life. And it's these

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kinds of things. You have these
scientists with these closed minds, and it's

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these kind of things that have to
pry those minds open because out of the

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box is just a totally foreign thing
to these guys, right, they can't

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think out of the box, so
need these wild things that they discovered to

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kind of open up their their perception. Well, and then with this moon

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with assault ocean, you know that
that helps too, because that's more familiar

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to us as salt ocean, that's
like our ocean, you know, as

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opposed to other methane oceans or whatever
these some of these other planets might have.

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But when it's more familiar to us, something more earth like, then

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people pay attention to it and get
really excited about it. Yeah. But

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I'm with you there. I think
there's underwater stuff there and underwater stuff here.

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Dolphin people all underwater. Well,
this was pretty big news today.

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It continues to be big news,
and it's kind of mysterious as to why

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that is. But videos have surfaced
online that reportedly show multiple UFOs above London

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on the afternoon of Friday, June
twenty fourth, that's this past Friday.

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The UFOs and the videos are lights
in the daytime sky that don't have the

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appearance of the traditional metal aircraft.
These orbs are shown hovering in the sky,

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then dipping behind clouds, seemingly playing
hide and seek with the camera.

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Two videos of these orb UFOs were
uploaded to the Internet by the same person.

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He uploaded his first video on June
sixteenth, and the description accompanying that

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video explains that he had been seeing
these odd lights over central London randomly for

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the past week and he finally managed
to get them on camera on the evening

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of Wednesday, June fifteenth. According
to The Telegraph, this video is believed

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to have been shot from inside the
offices of a visual effects company called The

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Mill, a company that creates special
effects for the film industry. That's a

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little detail. It certainly raises doubts
regarding the authenticity of the alleged UFOs well.

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The second video uploaded is creating an
international buzz right now, and the

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description provided on that video states right
took over a week to get it,

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but finally managed to get these critters
on camera on a clear day and even

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get it close up. It seems
to be tracked in quite a crowd now

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when they appear. Can anyone explain
what on earth these lithar pleas? A

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response to this video is posted to
YouTube by a user by the user hoaxkiller

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one to point out a flaw in
the video is one of the one of

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the UFOs is passing behind a building. It's temporarily visible in front of the

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building instead of behind the building,
which led hoax killer one to conclude that

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this object is clearly fake and was
made using computer generated graphics. Another issue

249
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with the UFO in the video is
that at times they appear to match the

250
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movements of the shaky camera, something
that indicates less than perfect motion tracking by

251
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the video's creator. This flaw was
also noticed by hoax killer one, who

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stated in the description of his video, they didn't match move the UFO with

253
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enough precision to match the camera shake, so you can see it as bouncing

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around. There are other videos from
June twenty fourth that appear to show the

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same orbs in the sky above London, but the veracity of these videos is

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also unclear. It's under screwt because
the problems with the initial video, the

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UFOs and the videos. All of
the videos remain unidentified and while they're unconfirmed.

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While the theory is unconfirmed, the
general consensus is it's all bogus.

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Yeah, I mean, I think
it's getting so much play because it was

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over the BBC building and in the
video it looks like, you know,

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they're coming across people who are already
looking right, which could be their coworkers.

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Let's all go outside and stay interesting. And I think that's why it's

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so exciting, because what I had
noticed was two things, not only the

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shake, because the object should you
know, be totally aligned with like the

265
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clouds in its movement. If the
clouds wiggles, it should wiggle the same,

266
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and right it was there at least
one moment where they're shaking wasn't aligned

267
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correctly. The other is the soft
In a lot of the fakes, these

268
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objects, especially the smaller further away, will have like a soft halo around

269
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them, whereas real objects are hard. You know, look at a lot

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of the UFO videos, even some
that turn out to be birds or otherwise,

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and I've seen several of I've even
seen myself what appear to be orbs

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or something in the day sky,
a little thing flying by, and they're

273
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really hard edges, not kind of
this light edges like these things had.

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So that's what threw me. But
then the wall where the object is seen

275
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on the side of the wall when
it's supposed to be going behind the building.

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That is something that Bruce mcabee has
cut other people with fakes with that

277
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very thing before. So yeah,
it looks like it's a big hoaxer on

278
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this one, right, And I
think a lot of people were hopeful with

279
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this one that this could be something
credible, because like with the Jerusalem UFO,

280
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you've got different different locations here that
supposedly cost the same thing, multiple

281
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cameras, multiple locations, but lots
of red flags with this one. So

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yep, So obviously we don't know
for sure, but it looks like hoax.

283
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Yeah too bad looking bad yep.
Well, since I've just talked about

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London, I'll continue talking about London, good old, great especially since you

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sort of threatened the British blowing stuff
up, Alejandro, Well, we gained

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our independent that's what we're celebrating,
and we're blowing stuff up. That's just

287
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my guess as to why we blow
stuff up. Americans love to blow stuff

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up. Yeah, just for that
kind of Well, scientists and other experts

289
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will be gathering in London to discuss
the search for extraterrestrial life. As First

290
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Perspective reported this weekend, this will
be a two day meeting of Britain's Royal

291
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Society to consider the progress made and
the challenges posed in the hunt for alien

292
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beings. And as he has done
before, Arizona State University astrophysicist Paul Davies

293
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will be on hand to discuss how
aliens could be right under our noses or

294
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even in our noses. Davies,
of course speaks about microbial life that could

295
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have arrived here from another planet,
the old pin sperma theory. Yeah,

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yeah, which is always interesting.
So yeah, that's really cool, that's

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really cool. The Royal Society has
done this many times before, something they're

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very interested in. And these are
the top of the top scientists doing cool

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stuff. Yeah, absolutely, Yeah, hopefully, you know, they'll figure

300
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something out. Who knows they Well, we'll see. Yeah, all right,

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Ellehundra. That is it for the
news. Remember to check out these

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stories and more at openminds dot tv, your source for UFO related news.

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I'm Jason McClellan, your Open Minds
News correspondent, and you've been briefed back

304
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to you, Eleandro. All right, thank you, Jason, And actually

305
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I'm gonna write about this in a
couple of days about Moscow. There's another

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meeting going on, a SETI type
of meeting in Moscow this week, and

307
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they are much more open minded in
Russia than even our Western world friends out

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there in the UK when they are
friends. Hey, I love the UK.

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I'm not threatening to blow them up. I just think that maybe that's

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the thing we're doing for the Independence
Day. But this is really exciting,

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all this talk about science and astrobiology
and trying to discover ways to talk about

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UFOs and extraterustrial intelligence. In fact, there was a story just today that

313
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came out that one of these Russian
scientists is predicting that definitely in the next

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twenty years we will find extraterrestrial life. I think he's talking about probably some

315
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basic indications of life. And these
days, with all of these astronomical discoveries,

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I think people are feeling that that
could be a conservative estimate, it

317
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may be a lot sooner than that. So these are exciting times people.

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As far as some of the other
stories that we have going on on the

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website, we have I talked earlier
about Tom Carey, who's going to be

320
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on our show in a little bit, and we've had Don Schmidt on the

321
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show not too long ago, and
their book Witness to Roswell. They had

322
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made some pretty interesting discoveries and they
got these discoveries from witnesses, eyewitnesses mostly

323
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but not completely firsthand witnesses. One
of those being about people seeing a trailer

324
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caring what seemed to be a craft
through the town in Roswell. Michael wrote

325
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a story on that with some really
neat images from a gentleman named John McNeil

326
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who has kind of illustrated what that
might have looked like. And these are

327
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really cool images and we just posted
another one today and actually I'll be talking

328
00:26:00.160 --> 00:26:06.359
to Tom about this, and that
is the Secret of Hanger P Three So

329
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it was really P three was the
name of the hangar where they took the

330
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stuff, the Roswell vehicle and the
aliens, and John McNeil has then another

331
00:26:14.160 --> 00:26:19.400
cool graphic to show what that might
have looked like. But we talked about,

332
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you know, some of the witnesses
who had seen or heard about some

333
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of the military guys who were on
the actual base who saw the planes coming

334
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and going. How many planes were
coming and going? Why so many planes

335
00:26:37.039 --> 00:26:42.960
were coming and going? So Michael
Schratt wrote about that as well. So

336
00:26:44.480 --> 00:26:48.119
some really cool stories that we have
on Roswell now that we are gearing up

337
00:26:48.200 --> 00:26:53.880
for the anniversary which is coming up
in just a few days. What is

338
00:26:53.920 --> 00:27:00.079
that Monday Tuesday? That's like Sunday, the crashers on the third. I

339
00:27:00.119 --> 00:27:04.799
think the third is Sunday. I
can't believe it's July already. So those

340
00:27:04.799 --> 00:27:10.200
are some of the stories that you
can see on the website. Really,

341
00:27:10.240 --> 00:27:12.640
some of the stories that have been
getting a lot of press are the ones

342
00:27:12.680 --> 00:27:18.960
that Antonio wrote on the Argentina Air
Force and their UFO commission, because that's

343
00:27:19.000 --> 00:27:26.680
really exciting that they have a real
UFO commission. They're working with civilian UFO

344
00:27:26.279 --> 00:27:32.960
ufologists. And then also Jason's UFO
over Mexico video that I talked about earlier,

345
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that's on our YouTube, or you
can, of course come and see

346
00:27:36.480 --> 00:27:41.400
it on our website openlind dot tv. But without further ado, let's go

347
00:27:41.519 --> 00:27:51.359
ahead and bring on Tom Carey and
talk some Roswell. All right, I

348
00:27:51.400 --> 00:27:55.440
am very happy to have on the
phone Tom, carry Tom. Thank you

349
00:27:55.480 --> 00:28:00.880
for joining us. My pleasure,
alhandro have a great day. Sun's out

350
00:28:00.920 --> 00:28:04.519
here, and I hope it's sunny
where you're at. Oh yeah, we're

351
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in Arizona. So we're in the
desert and it's sunny and very hot one

352
00:28:08.799 --> 00:28:12.440
hundred and fifteen today. I think, oh my goodness. Yeah, but

353
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it's dry, right, it's dry
heat. It is dry. It is

354
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very different in fact, and plus
the low elevation, like in Colorado where

355
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I'm from, you know, you
would die. And I used to think

356
00:28:23.079 --> 00:28:26.599
people must die in Arizona. But
it's different. You can tolerate a higher

357
00:28:26.640 --> 00:28:33.279
heat out here, absolutely so.
And it's we're going to be talking about

358
00:28:33.279 --> 00:28:37.920
the desert that the New Mexico Desert. I guess to start off, I

359
00:28:37.960 --> 00:28:45.799
wanted to know how you first got
interested in the Roswell case. Well,

360
00:28:45.880 --> 00:28:49.400
I never heard of the Roswell Case. To be honest with you, until

361
00:28:49.480 --> 00:29:00.680
nineteen eighty, I was a graduate
student at the University of Toronto and someone

362
00:29:00.759 --> 00:29:04.400
had I was in a local UFO
group there and someone mentioned that a book

363
00:29:04.519 --> 00:29:11.759
was coming out on the Roswell Incident. And I had lived in California,

364
00:29:11.079 --> 00:29:18.480
in Sacramento for ten years, and
just east of Sacramento was a town called

365
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Roseville. So I thought, oh, they mean Roseville, not Roswell,

366
00:29:22.559 --> 00:29:26.079
and they said, no, Roswell, New Mexico. I never heard of

367
00:29:26.119 --> 00:29:30.880
it. So in nineteen eighty when
the book came out, of course I

368
00:29:30.880 --> 00:29:41.559
bought it and I was just transfixed
by this story that, as opposed to

369
00:29:41.640 --> 00:29:48.839
lights in the sky and people describing
lights flitting about, here was a craft

370
00:29:48.960 --> 00:29:56.359
that apparently allegedly had crashed with wreckage
and bodies, and it had been covered

371
00:29:56.440 --> 00:30:03.960
up for decades and this had just
everything that piqued my interest. So that

372
00:30:04.119 --> 00:30:10.559
was my original introduction to the Roswell
case, was the nineteen eighty book The

373
00:30:10.640 --> 00:30:15.599
Roswell Incident. And were you already
interested in UFOs, then yes, I

374
00:30:15.880 --> 00:30:22.200
was, Alejandro. I was interested. As a teenager, I read the

375
00:30:22.279 --> 00:30:29.119
Donald Keyhoe books, who to this
day remains my favorite author about UFOs.

376
00:30:29.599 --> 00:30:34.359
Kehoe wrote half a dozen or so
books about flying saucers as they were known

377
00:30:34.480 --> 00:30:42.920
then, and that the interest really
never died. I sort of suppressed it

378
00:30:44.000 --> 00:30:47.240
for a while while I was in
graduate school, but I still read.

379
00:30:47.720 --> 00:30:52.000
I was still interested in UFOs and
read books even when I was in graduate

380
00:30:52.039 --> 00:30:59.920
school, and so it never really
died. And when I came back to

381
00:31:00.039 --> 00:31:07.960
Philadelphia in the late seventies, and
I guess on into the mid eighties,

382
00:31:08.039 --> 00:31:12.000
I wanted to actually do something other
than just read the books. I wanted

383
00:31:12.000 --> 00:31:21.039
to become involved. And by that
time there were additional articles coming out about

384
00:31:21.160 --> 00:31:26.480
the Roswell case by Kevin Randall and
Don Schmidt, who were writing in the

385
00:31:27.160 --> 00:31:33.519
periodical The International Reporter for the Jay
Allen Heinez Center for you excuse me,

386
00:31:33.599 --> 00:31:38.960
UFO Studies. So that's how I
became re acquainted with UFOs, and especially

387
00:31:40.039 --> 00:31:48.039
the Roswell incident was in that manner. And so eventually, of course she

388
00:31:48.119 --> 00:31:55.920
became partnered up with that Don,
And now you continue that partnership looking into

389
00:31:55.960 --> 00:32:00.640
it. How did that happen?
Yes, Well, as you know,

390
00:32:00.880 --> 00:32:07.160
nineteen ninety seven was the fiftieth anniversary
year of the Roswell Incident nineteen forty seven

391
00:32:07.240 --> 00:32:13.720
and nineteen ninety seven, and all
of the hooplah that's around the case sort

392
00:32:13.759 --> 00:32:19.000
of came to a crescendo with national
media coverage. Most of the books ever

393
00:32:19.039 --> 00:32:23.039
written about Roswell were written in nineteen
ninety seven, and by that time I

394
00:32:23.160 --> 00:32:31.079
had been working with Don Schmidt and
Kevin Randall in their investigation of the Roswell

395
00:32:31.119 --> 00:32:42.119
incident. I was oh. I
joined the team by investigating one aspect of

396
00:32:42.200 --> 00:32:47.279
the case for them, and by
ninety seven the case was on the cover

397
00:32:47.319 --> 00:32:51.640
of Time magazine, was on all
the networks, et cetera, et cetera.

398
00:32:52.480 --> 00:32:59.960
So after the ninety seven hoopla,
most of the researchers left the field.

399
00:33:00.240 --> 00:33:02.559
They had written their books and it
was never going to get any more

400
00:33:02.599 --> 00:33:07.640
popular than that it was in ninety
seven. But I wanted to continue a

401
00:33:07.839 --> 00:33:14.599
proactive and I emphasized the word proactive
investigation of the Roswell Incident. And by

402
00:33:14.720 --> 00:33:19.839
proactive, I mean not just sitting
around waiting for people to call me or

403
00:33:19.920 --> 00:33:23.480
send me emails, but to actually
go out there and start shaking the tree

404
00:33:23.839 --> 00:33:34.440
for witnesses and information. And at
that point I met Don Schmidt in Chicago

405
00:33:34.680 --> 00:33:42.799
during a QFOS for the Center for
UFO Studies meeting, and we decided to

406
00:33:42.960 --> 00:33:50.319
take a trip to Roswell together in
May of nineteen ninety eight to just see

407
00:33:50.359 --> 00:33:58.200
what if there was anything left to
investigate. And that's been what thirteen years

408
00:33:58.200 --> 00:34:02.680
ago, and we're still a team, and there's been plenty to learn since

409
00:34:02.759 --> 00:34:08.480
then. It wasn't it wasn't a
dead case. There were still nuggets to

410
00:34:09.800 --> 00:34:15.760
find and we're still working on it. So in that trip in nineteen eighty

411
00:34:15.840 --> 00:34:22.760
nine, you Wall discovered there was
more to research. What did you discover

412
00:34:22.880 --> 00:34:28.559
on that trip, well, this
would be nineteen ninety eighth, ninety eight.

413
00:34:30.480 --> 00:34:36.599
The first thing we discovered was there
was a old time witness still alive

414
00:34:36.719 --> 00:34:45.800
named Frank Joyce, and I remember
it distinctly. We Joyce lived in Albuquerque.

415
00:34:45.960 --> 00:34:52.360
He had been just retired as a
newsman, a features editor, a

416
00:34:52.360 --> 00:35:00.039
features reporter for KOB TV in Albuquerque, and over the years, Joyce had

417
00:35:00.239 --> 00:35:14.559
told his story about being a reporter
on the radio station KGFL in Roswell in

418
00:35:14.639 --> 00:35:20.440
nineteen forty seven when Mac Brasel the
sheep Brancher. He's the one that first

419
00:35:20.480 --> 00:35:28.320
found the wreckage join his ranch the
strange wreckage, and he came in and

420
00:35:29.679 --> 00:35:34.679
Brasel came into town and went to
the Sheriff's office and told his story to

421
00:35:34.719 --> 00:35:40.599
Sheriff George Wilcox. And just at
that point, Wilcox received a phone call

422
00:35:40.719 --> 00:35:46.079
from Frank Joyce, who at that
point was spinning records and talking about cattle

423
00:35:46.119 --> 00:35:53.920
feed and good bargains and farming equipment
and stuff like that on the radio station.

424
00:35:55.079 --> 00:36:00.360
And he asked Wilcox, the sheriff, or do you have any good

425
00:36:00.400 --> 00:36:05.000
stories I can use on the air, you know, some human interest anything

426
00:36:05.039 --> 00:36:07.039
happened. Let me know. I'll
put it on the air. And he

427
00:36:07.039 --> 00:36:10.360
says, well, by the way, I have a fellow standing here right

428
00:36:10.400 --> 00:36:15.719
next to me, by the name
of mac Brasel. He runs a sheep

429
00:36:15.800 --> 00:36:20.840
ranch out in near Corona, and
he's found all of this, this strange

430
00:36:20.880 --> 00:36:24.079
wreckage on his ranch. And here, let me put him on the phone.

431
00:36:24.320 --> 00:36:32.079
And so Joyce interviewed Brassel over the
phone, and he told Joyce some

432
00:36:32.159 --> 00:36:39.760
things that Joyce never revealed to anyone
until that day in May of nineteen ninety

433
00:36:39.800 --> 00:36:45.079
eight that Don Schmidt and I visited
with him. He said, I'm going

434
00:36:45.159 --> 00:36:49.199
to tell you some things I've alluded
to over the years but never really told

435
00:36:49.239 --> 00:36:53.880
anybody until now. I'm going to
tell you. So once I get started,

436
00:36:53.960 --> 00:36:58.400
don't stop me, because I might
not I might, I just might

437
00:36:58.400 --> 00:37:02.480
not start up again. So we
let him talk, and he revealed the

438
00:37:02.559 --> 00:37:08.079
so called rest of the story that
he knew about Brasl, most notably that

439
00:37:08.199 --> 00:37:15.000
Brazl had found bodies in addition to
the Strange wreckage. All these years,

440
00:37:15.719 --> 00:37:22.519
Joyce had talked about the Strange wreckage, but never mentioned the bodies that Brasel

441
00:37:22.599 --> 00:37:29.800
had found. And he said,
I have Joyce to quote, and he

442
00:37:29.800 --> 00:37:34.079
said, I always said there was
more to my story, but that I

443
00:37:34.159 --> 00:37:37.360
didn't want to reveal it until that
day in May and nineteen ninety eight,

444
00:37:37.440 --> 00:37:43.840
when fortuitously Don Schmidt and I showed
up and he felt like revealing it.

445
00:37:43.920 --> 00:37:50.000
And that was the first inkling to
us that there is more to learn about

446
00:37:50.000 --> 00:37:58.920
the Roswell story. And right off
the bat we got that information right and

447
00:37:58.960 --> 00:38:00.960
then and you can continued. I
mean, you found this witness, and

448
00:38:01.000 --> 00:38:06.119
you continue to find more witnesses,
and you continue to find them to this

449
00:38:06.239 --> 00:38:12.199
day. Absolutely, we've got some
new ones the last week. Wow,

450
00:38:12.280 --> 00:38:16.280
we're still working on them. But
it's not that they come forward and say,

451
00:38:16.320 --> 00:38:20.840
oh boy, here I am.
I want to be interviewed. It's

452
00:38:20.880 --> 00:38:25.199
just not that way at all.
And when that happens, ninety nine times

453
00:38:25.239 --> 00:38:30.039
out of one hundred, the stories
are bogus, and the witnesses or bogus.

454
00:38:30.639 --> 00:38:35.840
The witnesses that really are genuine are
the ones that we have to really

455
00:38:35.960 --> 00:38:42.440
search for and dig out because they
don't come forward. You have to actually

456
00:38:42.519 --> 00:38:45.119
find them. It's like I said, shake the tree. If you're not

457
00:38:45.239 --> 00:38:50.480
shaking the tree, you're not going
to find any because they're not going to

458
00:38:50.679 --> 00:39:00.199
fall into your lap. So it's
a very detailed, a labor of the

459
00:39:00.599 --> 00:39:04.719
what they call it labor intensive.
It's labor intensive. It's you just don't

460
00:39:04.760 --> 00:39:07.119
sit back and they come rolling in. You've got to go after them.

461
00:39:07.320 --> 00:39:15.639
And a lot of people find that
daunting. And I know myself when when

462
00:39:15.679 --> 00:39:19.440
it's a day where I'm going to
make phone calls to try to locate and

463
00:39:19.559 --> 00:39:25.280
interview witnesses, I have to psych
myself up because it is very daunting to

464
00:39:25.679 --> 00:39:30.519
call somebody up. Yeah, out
of the blue, cold Turkey. They

465
00:39:30.519 --> 00:39:36.000
don't know me, and the first
ten seconds are critical to identify yourself and

466
00:39:36.039 --> 00:39:39.280
the reason you're calling and hope that
they don't hang up on you. So

467
00:39:39.960 --> 00:39:45.679
that's and I'm still doing that.
So and the procedure you guys go through,

468
00:39:45.679 --> 00:39:49.840
so essentially, for instance, you'll
find out who the officers or who

469
00:39:49.840 --> 00:39:53.880
the people at the base were and
then start tracking those people. Absolutely,

470
00:39:54.519 --> 00:40:00.679
it's lots of times we'll get leads. Lots of times people will give us

471
00:40:00.760 --> 00:40:04.159
leads, but they won't give us
name. So how can we check something

472
00:40:04.199 --> 00:40:08.000
if we don't have names? So
what we do, short of someone telling

473
00:40:08.079 --> 00:40:15.599
us go interview former airman John Smith, what we do is we have a

474
00:40:15.639 --> 00:40:22.719
copy of the Roswell based yearbook from
nineteen forty seven with three hundred I'm sorry,

475
00:40:22.719 --> 00:40:27.679
three thousand pictures and names to go
with them in the yearbook. So

476
00:40:28.559 --> 00:40:34.440
what I do is I'll pick names, not like John Smith or Sam Jones

477
00:40:34.639 --> 00:40:40.440
or George Brown. You know,
you have to pick a name that's idiosyncratic,

478
00:40:40.519 --> 00:40:45.519
that's unique enough that you have a
stand a chance of finding the name

479
00:40:45.639 --> 00:40:54.480
in the online directory. That's how
we do it, and I've been very

480
00:40:54.480 --> 00:40:59.280
successful at that. If you don't
if the person is still is no longer

481
00:40:59.320 --> 00:41:04.199
alive, in most cases, they
are not no longer they are no longer

482
00:41:04.199 --> 00:41:08.519
alive. You'll get a family member, because oftentimes they'll list they'll still list

483
00:41:08.599 --> 00:41:15.079
the the name under the deceased,
the husband, if it's a if it's

484
00:41:15.079 --> 00:41:20.599
a wife, they'll they'll still list
it under the husband husband's name, even

485
00:41:20.599 --> 00:41:24.199
though he's deceased. Have you ran
across the situation where you get a hold

486
00:41:24.199 --> 00:41:28.159
of one of these guys and they're
relieved to hear from you. They're like,

487
00:41:28.239 --> 00:41:32.239
I've been wanting to talk to somebody
about this once. In all of

488
00:41:32.280 --> 00:41:37.920
the hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of
phone calls that I've made, it's happened

489
00:41:37.960 --> 00:41:43.559
once, and that was Earl Fulford. Oh, I'd say about six years

490
00:41:43.599 --> 00:41:46.599
ago. It just happened to I. He was just a name and a

491
00:41:46.679 --> 00:41:53.320
face in the yearbook, former sergeant
in the A five oh ninth bomb Group,

492
00:41:54.920 --> 00:42:00.599
worked in the Air Engineering Squadron that
the refurbished to be twenty nine engines.

493
00:42:01.960 --> 00:42:06.320
And I called him. He lives. He lived, He just died

494
00:42:06.400 --> 00:42:13.079
recently. His wife is still alive. They live in Plano, Florida.

495
00:42:14.039 --> 00:42:17.119
And I called the number, not
knowing if the the was still alive or

496
00:42:17.280 --> 00:42:22.079
you know, and his wife answered, and she says, Oh, I'm

497
00:42:22.159 --> 00:42:25.559
so glad you've called. Yes,
my husband is right here. He's been

498
00:42:25.960 --> 00:42:30.880
he is ready to talk. He
wants to talk to somebody. I couldn't

499
00:42:30.880 --> 00:42:37.760
believe it. Yes, it was. It was so out of the ordinary.

500
00:42:37.920 --> 00:42:39.719
I couldn't I thought I was dreaming. I thought I was dreaming.

501
00:42:39.840 --> 00:42:45.440
And he turned out to be a
terrific witness. He knew a lot.

502
00:42:45.719 --> 00:42:52.679
He told us everything that he knew
and as a matter of fact, he

503
00:42:52.800 --> 00:42:58.400
was featured in the UFO Hunter's Show
when we were in Roswell two years ago.

504
00:42:59.199 --> 00:43:01.280
He took us out to the hangar
where he worked, and we took

505
00:43:01.400 --> 00:43:07.239
him out to the Brazle ranch where
the all the wreckage came down, and

506
00:43:09.079 --> 00:43:17.039
unfortunately he died within two weeks of
returning home. So h but he was

507
00:43:17.159 --> 00:43:23.079
just a great guy. And I
still correspond with his wife and uh,

508
00:43:23.360 --> 00:43:30.000
that was the one case where someone
actually was happy to have me call him.

509
00:43:31.039 --> 00:43:36.039
He's it's the other way around.
And with him, what what was

510
00:43:36.079 --> 00:43:40.119
some of the stuff he revealed to
you immediately are or well? He was

511
00:43:40.199 --> 00:43:44.440
one first of all, he was
one of the airmen. He was a

512
00:43:44.480 --> 00:43:52.440
sergeant that we'll call him airman that
was UH put on a truck and driven

513
00:43:52.480 --> 00:43:58.920
out to the debris field site to
actually pick up the wreckage. And he

514
00:43:59.079 --> 00:44:02.760
described to us how many airmen were
with him at the time, what they

515
00:44:02.800 --> 00:44:09.719
did, and he described the wreckage
that he actually personally handled. And his

516
00:44:09.880 --> 00:44:19.280
description was was typical of the description
for this so called memory metal, the

517
00:44:19.320 --> 00:44:23.599
metal that you can wade up in
your hand. You can crickle it up

518
00:44:23.880 --> 00:44:28.719
into a ball and just let it
go and it'll flatten right out before it

519
00:44:28.800 --> 00:44:34.599
hits the ground or a table or
something like that. You can't cut it,

520
00:44:34.679 --> 00:44:39.440
scratch it, burn it, or
deform it, or deface it in

521
00:44:40.079 --> 00:44:47.039
he manner. And he described how
he had trouble putting these pieces of memory

522
00:44:47.079 --> 00:44:52.159
metal in his burlap sack. They
were each each chairman was given a burlap

523
00:44:52.320 --> 00:45:00.880
sack to put to put anything that
wasn't natural that was those were the instructions,

524
00:45:00.199 --> 00:45:07.360
put anything that's not natural into this
burlac burlap sack. And then they

525
00:45:07.360 --> 00:45:13.119
would UH on their way out,
they would hand over the sacks and they

526
00:45:13.119 --> 00:45:17.639
would all be dumped into a wheelbarrow. So he described how he would pick

527
00:45:17.719 --> 00:45:24.559
up a piece of this memory metal
and crinkle it up like a piece of

528
00:45:24.719 --> 00:45:29.480
you know, paper that you're just
wadding up to toss in the trash can.

529
00:45:30.079 --> 00:45:32.880
He would toss it in there,
but it would flatten right out immediately

530
00:45:34.000 --> 00:45:37.159
and it would get stuck. He
would miss the bag, he would it

531
00:45:37.199 --> 00:45:42.400
would just float around, and he
says, what is this? So he

532
00:45:42.480 --> 00:45:45.920
got he finally got the neck of
it. He kept his hand wrapped around

533
00:45:46.039 --> 00:45:51.840
the piece of the metal, memory
metal, and he would put his hand

534
00:45:51.960 --> 00:45:55.920
way down in the burlap bag before
he released it so it would stay in

535
00:45:57.000 --> 00:46:01.320
the bag. And that was sort
of ant because he's the only one that

536
00:46:01.400 --> 00:46:09.199
really described something utilitarian as putting a
piece of it in a bag and the

537
00:46:09.239 --> 00:46:15.199
way he had to do it.
So and you know, when their shift

538
00:46:15.280 --> 00:46:19.800
was over, they would they you
know, they lined up and they handed

539
00:46:19.800 --> 00:46:25.119
their bags to a central depository and
then they were taken back to the base.

540
00:46:25.960 --> 00:46:34.000
The other interesting story he told There
were two other stories that Earl Fulford

541
00:46:34.079 --> 00:46:39.159
told us. The one was that
he at this time he got off his

542
00:46:39.320 --> 00:46:45.159
shift. This was the on July
the eighth, nineteen forty seven, actually

543
00:46:45.440 --> 00:46:50.639
a day or two before they drove
him out to the crash site. He

544
00:46:50.719 --> 00:46:54.840
had a friend in his squadron who
was a truck driver, and they were

545
00:46:54.880 --> 00:47:05.239
eating chow or they were eating breakfast
at the alcohol about six am, and

546
00:47:06.199 --> 00:47:13.880
they noticed his friend, the sergeant
George Howke, having breakfast by himself and

547
00:47:14.719 --> 00:47:20.000
they could see out in the parking
lot this long, low boy tractor trailer.

548
00:47:20.760 --> 00:47:24.119
And so he goes over and he
says, so you know what you're

549
00:47:24.119 --> 00:47:28.760
doing here, George, And he
says, oh, I'm I'm going up

550
00:47:28.800 --> 00:47:32.760
north, going up north. This
was the north of town. And oh,

551
00:47:32.840 --> 00:47:35.960
that's interesting. Do you know why? He says, No, they

552
00:47:36.079 --> 00:47:39.559
just told me to get a low
boy and head north of town. After

553
00:47:39.599 --> 00:47:44.480
he had have breakfast. Well that, you know, that was sort of

554
00:47:44.840 --> 00:47:46.440
the end of the you know,
great, have a great day, you

555
00:47:46.480 --> 00:47:52.679
know. So Fulford's getting off his
shift around four No, I guess it's

556
00:47:52.679 --> 00:48:00.400
about about four pm in the afternoon, and he can he's heading for his

557
00:48:00.039 --> 00:48:05.800
car. He had a car,
and they were he and another fellow were

558
00:48:05.800 --> 00:48:09.519
heading for the car, heading for
the parkt Nope, I strike that they

559
00:48:09.519 --> 00:48:15.400
were heading for the NCO Club.
That's where they were heading. They were

560
00:48:15.400 --> 00:48:19.880
heading for the NCO Club across the
base and they were walking across the parkty

561
00:48:20.280 --> 00:48:25.119
they saw this low boy coming in
in through the through the main gate and

562
00:48:25.280 --> 00:48:31.480
heading heading for them, and it
was actually heading for the the big hangar

563
00:48:31.559 --> 00:48:39.639
where all of the wreckage was being
deposited. And he says, that's that's

564
00:48:39.679 --> 00:48:44.840
George halk and he could see there
was a tarpouland on the back and something

565
00:48:44.920 --> 00:48:50.679
under the tarpoulan. So he goes
out into the middle of the road there

566
00:48:50.719 --> 00:48:55.760
and we went to that spot when
the Earl was was brought to Roswell two

567
00:48:55.840 --> 00:49:00.119
years ago. I said, George, where Earl word had this happen?

568
00:49:00.199 --> 00:49:02.079
He says, right, okay,
let me take you to it. So

569
00:49:02.119 --> 00:49:07.199
we stood right there where he flagged
down this big tractor trailer with a low

570
00:49:07.239 --> 00:49:13.119
boy, and so the tractor stops
and it's George Houcken there and so Earl

571
00:49:13.199 --> 00:49:15.960
says, where you been, George? He says, well, I've been

572
00:49:15.039 --> 00:49:19.519
up north And he says, well, what do he got there under the

573
00:49:19.559 --> 00:49:22.760
tarp And he says, I can't
tell you. He says, oh,

574
00:49:22.800 --> 00:49:25.760
sure you can. So Earl and
his friend they head back to the back

575
00:49:25.800 --> 00:49:31.000
of the low boy and they're about
to lift up the tarp to see what's

576
00:49:31.039 --> 00:49:35.239
under there, and help jumps out
of the truck and he says, get

577
00:49:35.280 --> 00:49:37.960
away from there, get away from
there. You can't look, And he

578
00:49:38.000 --> 00:49:40.400
says why not. He says,
I don't know. They just told me

579
00:49:40.440 --> 00:49:49.480
not to let anyone look under the
tar. Well, so with that he

580
00:49:50.599 --> 00:49:53.599
tells Fulford and his friend to go, you know, get out of there,

581
00:49:54.039 --> 00:49:59.960
and which they do. They continued
across to the NCA Club and how

582
00:50:00.280 --> 00:50:04.639
drives the low Boy right into the
big hangar where all of the wreckage is

583
00:50:04.679 --> 00:50:12.760
being deposited. Well, we know
from witnesses in Roswell who saw the trailer

584
00:50:13.079 --> 00:50:16.679
go right through the center of town
with this tarp that there was wreckage underneath.

585
00:50:16.679 --> 00:50:22.000
They could see parts of it sticking
out, and at least one occasion

586
00:50:22.480 --> 00:50:30.280
the tarp flap back and someone could
see an egg shaped, silvery egg shaped

587
00:50:30.480 --> 00:50:37.320
craft underneath the tarp, parts of
it anyway, so we know that's what

588
00:50:37.360 --> 00:50:40.599
it was. We know he came
from the so called impact site, which

589
00:50:40.719 --> 00:50:46.119
was different from the BRASL site,
and the impact site is where the part

590
00:50:46.159 --> 00:50:51.679
of the shift that didn't disintegrate when
it exploded. The rest of it went

591
00:50:51.719 --> 00:50:55.199
another thirty miles and came to rest
just north of Broswell and that's what how

592
00:50:55.559 --> 00:51:00.599
was hauling back to the base.
Have you ever been able to get a

593
00:51:00.599 --> 00:51:06.840
hold of him, Yes, he's
still alive. I've talked to him several

594
00:51:06.920 --> 00:51:14.880
times. And first he tried to
claim he didn't know Earl Fulford and they

595
00:51:14.880 --> 00:51:19.199
were best friends. And I can
tell you, having been in the Air

596
00:51:19.239 --> 00:51:23.480
Force myself in the sixties, you
never forget who your best friends were.

597
00:51:25.320 --> 00:51:30.199
And he tried to claim he never
heard of Earl Fulford. And then I

598
00:51:30.360 --> 00:51:32.480
reminded him of this story and he
says, oh, yes, I know

599
00:51:32.519 --> 00:51:39.719
who you're talking about. He wouldn't
devulge what it was. In fact,

600
00:51:39.760 --> 00:51:45.400
he wouldn't have. He denied driving
the truck. Now, Earl Fulford has

601
00:51:45.440 --> 00:51:53.039
never lied to me. Everything he
said has checked out. And how first

602
00:51:53.079 --> 00:51:58.480
denied that he drove the truck,
and my most recent call to him,

603
00:51:59.000 --> 00:52:05.760
which was maybe a six months ago, he denied ever hearing about the Roswell

604
00:52:06.079 --> 00:52:13.639
incident or being aware of anything on
the base that took place of this nature,

605
00:52:13.800 --> 00:52:20.480
which is just absolute nonsense. So
that's his fall back position. I

606
00:52:20.519 --> 00:52:22.800
don't know what you're talking about.
I never heard of Roswell. I wasn't

607
00:52:22.800 --> 00:52:28.400
aware of anything that took place.
On the base, and so he's what

608
00:52:28.440 --> 00:52:35.000
we call a reluctant witness. When
you're calling these witnesses, what percentage I

609
00:52:35.039 --> 00:52:39.159
mean, are most of them reluctant
or what is kind of the percentage?

610
00:52:39.519 --> 00:52:45.320
They're very tight lift because you're now
sixty four years removed from the event,

611
00:52:46.679 --> 00:52:52.119
And if we're just finding them now
and they've not spoken to anybody, that

612
00:52:52.199 --> 00:53:00.159
means that they've made a conscious decision
not to say anything. So you can

613
00:53:00.199 --> 00:53:06.440
tell by the tenseness in their voice, by the tone of their voice whether

614
00:53:06.480 --> 00:53:16.039
they're trying to snow you or they're
lying to you. So it's actually sometimes

615
00:53:16.039 --> 00:53:22.519
it's a benefit when the person has
actually passed away and it's a family member

616
00:53:22.519 --> 00:53:30.199
that you're talking to. Oftentimes they
feel less constrained than the deceson. So

617
00:53:30.440 --> 00:53:32.800
even when you get a hold of
the family member, you'll still kind of

618
00:53:32.800 --> 00:53:37.559
of a deceased person. You'll still
explain who you are and what you're doing

619
00:53:37.920 --> 00:53:44.760
and ask them if they have any
stories. Yes, yes, And like

620
00:53:44.800 --> 00:53:51.840
I said, sometimes it's a benefit
because the family member is less constrained.

621
00:53:52.599 --> 00:53:55.800
Sometimes they're not. They I mean
some I mean sometimes they're just as constrained

622
00:53:55.800 --> 00:54:00.239
as the season who's probably told them, don't ever talk about this, so

623
00:54:01.199 --> 00:54:05.159
we never know what we're going to
get, is what I'm trying to tell

624
00:54:05.239 --> 00:54:10.280
you. And usually the ones,
the ones that were thinking, oh,

625
00:54:10.320 --> 00:54:15.639
this person really knows what happened,
they claim not to know anything. And

626
00:54:15.320 --> 00:54:20.920
oftentimes when you're just calling a name
that you don't know that, they will

627
00:54:20.920 --> 00:54:23.920
surprise you and know quite a bit. Wow. And then have you ran

628
00:54:24.000 --> 00:54:29.159
across a family member who's been like
that where they're they're happy, they want

629
00:54:29.159 --> 00:54:37.599
to share what. Yes. A
woman named Carlene Green, she's in our

630
00:54:37.639 --> 00:54:43.039
book, both of our editions of
Witness to Roswell. She told us of

631
00:54:43.079 --> 00:54:49.719
a deathbed confession of her father,
and no one had interviewed her. We

632
00:54:49.920 --> 00:54:55.559
just found her, oh, just
at random. And her father was a

633
00:54:55.599 --> 00:55:04.039
sergeant again out at the crash site, ticking up the debris, and he

634
00:55:04.119 --> 00:55:07.559
also saw the bodies. He described
the bodies just as others had described them

635
00:55:07.559 --> 00:55:15.000
as three to four feet tall,
large head, frail body, no nose,

636
00:55:15.119 --> 00:55:19.840
no ears, just a little slit
for a mouth and slightly slanted eyes.

637
00:55:20.000 --> 00:55:25.599
And he never told his daughter,
Carlene Green about it until he was

638
00:55:25.760 --> 00:55:31.239
literally on his deathbed. The ambulance
was coming to pick him up to take

639
00:55:31.280 --> 00:55:37.519
him into the hospital for open heart
surgery. He didn't know and she didn't

640
00:55:37.519 --> 00:55:42.719
know if he was going to make
it, and just deserved about to wheel

641
00:55:42.840 --> 00:55:46.880
him into the ambulance. He calls
his daughter over and he says, I

642
00:55:47.039 --> 00:55:51.880
just want to tell you that Roswell. Now here's a guy on his deathbed

643
00:55:52.199 --> 00:55:55.079
and he wants to tell his daughter
about Roswell, about the fact that it

644
00:55:55.119 --> 00:55:59.360
was real, It really happened.
He was out there and he saw the

645
00:55:59.400 --> 00:56:07.159
bodies, the wreckage and can you
imagine that? Wow? And he told

646
00:56:07.199 --> 00:56:12.280
her talk to your brother. He
knows everything that I've told him. So

647
00:56:12.519 --> 00:56:16.000
he had told his son, but
he didn't tell his He never told his

648
00:56:16.119 --> 00:56:21.880
daughter until he was on the guarney
being wheeled out to the ambulance. So,

649
00:56:22.760 --> 00:56:25.400
yeah, that was a case where
she was happy to talk to us.

650
00:56:25.760 --> 00:56:30.719
Wow. And so even though there's
a lot of people who are reluctant

651
00:56:30.800 --> 00:56:36.480
to speak about it, you've still
gathered quite a number of witnesses. Yes,

652
00:56:36.599 --> 00:56:44.440
this is over the years. This
includes everybody that that we've ever talked

653
00:56:44.440 --> 00:56:51.840
to that knew and told us something
about the Roswell incident. We've made many

654
00:56:51.920 --> 00:56:58.440
more calls than than the six hundred
plus witnesses that we have, but of

655
00:56:59.000 --> 00:57:05.360
the we've probably made twenty five hundred
calls and that we've got over six hundred

656
00:57:05.440 --> 00:57:09.679
that have have had information to share
with us. Now, they're not all

657
00:57:09.800 --> 00:57:16.559
first hand witnesses. Many of them
are secondhand witnesses, but they they corroborate

658
00:57:16.800 --> 00:57:22.920
what the first hands have told us. Now, sometimes we'll get a witness

659
00:57:25.440 --> 00:57:31.119
you know, if you get if
you have enough witnesses that are saying pretty

660
00:57:31.199 --> 00:57:40.000
much the same thing, you a
template forms of an image, and if

661
00:57:40.039 --> 00:57:45.400
you get someone whose story is so
far out of that template, you more

662
00:57:45.480 --> 00:57:52.320
or less have to dismiss that as
as either bogus or something just that just

663
00:57:52.360 --> 00:58:00.000
doesn't fit, you know, because
if you get enough testimony that that it's

664
00:58:00.599 --> 00:58:06.800
and somebody is telling you Q,
then you know that that's not it's either

665
00:58:06.960 --> 00:58:12.239
not part of the same story or
it's fogus. So that's how we've been

666
00:58:12.280 --> 00:58:16.440
able to more or less put all
of the pieces. It looks like a

667
00:58:16.519 --> 00:58:22.360
jigsaw puzzle. The more pieces that
you fit in, the clearer the picture

668
00:58:22.440 --> 00:58:27.719
becomes. And that's where we're at
now. I'd say we have perhaps ninety

669
00:58:27.800 --> 00:58:36.639
percent of the story what we're missing
is what happened to the bodies after they

670
00:58:36.719 --> 00:58:44.159
left Fort Worth and Roswell and wound
up at right Field or right Patterson Air

671
00:58:44.199 --> 00:58:47.599
Force Base. What happened to them, especially the one that was alive that

672
00:58:47.920 --> 00:58:52.920
the witnesses have told us about that
air that part of the story is still

673
00:58:52.920 --> 00:58:58.360
a little foggy. Out of those
six hundred witnesses, about how many what

674
00:58:58.480 --> 00:59:05.639
percentage of those would you say are
firsthand? That's a good question. See,

675
00:59:05.639 --> 00:59:08.800
our mandate is to interview as many
as we can, so right now

676
00:59:08.800 --> 00:59:14.719
we don't have the statistics, but
I would say firsthand, I would say

677
00:59:15.239 --> 00:59:20.719
a third, So that's still what
like two hundred people? Yes, that's

678
00:59:20.760 --> 00:59:23.440
a lot, Yes, somewhere,
I would say somewhere between a quarter and

679
00:59:23.480 --> 00:59:30.199
a third. The rest are second
hand. Yeah, but these secondhand ones

680
00:59:30.199 --> 00:59:34.000
we're telling you about are the ones
that corroborate with the first hands. I've

681
00:59:34.320 --> 00:59:37.360
told her help fill in the picture. And the reason I asked that is

682
00:59:37.400 --> 00:59:43.920
because, of course we've seen the
Annie Jacobson Area fifty one book come out.

683
00:59:44.559 --> 00:59:50.760
Yes, recently Yahoo News did a
really terrible Rockwell story where their facts

684
00:59:50.800 --> 00:59:57.320
are not straight and they never addressed
the witnesses. Nope, they see in

685
00:59:57.360 --> 01:00:05.159
the case of Annie Jacobson now here
we have over six hundred witnesses and we've

686
01:00:05.280 --> 01:00:07.239
named them. You know, it's
not like, jeez, I wonder who

687
01:00:07.239 --> 01:00:13.199
these people are. We've named them. She has a single witness that's anonymous.

688
01:00:13.880 --> 01:00:22.880
Now, you know, any court
of law would dismiss that as hearsay.

689
01:00:22.880 --> 01:00:29.320
And it's only one one. We've
got hundreds, and you know,

690
01:00:29.440 --> 01:00:37.000
the way of evidence is just overwhelming. When you try to pit one explanation

691
01:00:37.079 --> 01:00:44.559
against the other, it's just not
even a contest. There are other claimed

692
01:00:45.159 --> 01:00:52.360
explanations, but again those are usually
based on anonymous witnesses. And unfortunately for

693
01:00:52.519 --> 01:00:57.280
Annie Jacobs and she didn't know anything
about Roswell before, and she doesn't know

694
01:00:57.639 --> 01:01:04.920
how to separate what would the fact
from fiction, and so whatever this anonymous

695
01:01:05.199 --> 01:01:13.519
person told her, apparently she believed. And it isn't worth worth anything because

696
01:01:13.559 --> 01:01:19.360
it's the witness is anonymous. It's
unfortunate too that people like her don't do

697
01:01:19.440 --> 01:01:23.440
their research, and you all have
made it very easy for them to do

698
01:01:23.480 --> 01:01:29.800
that. You've got your book Witness
to Oswell people can refer to get a

699
01:01:29.840 --> 01:01:32.719
fuller story about what's going on.
And like you said, named witnesses that

700
01:01:32.760 --> 01:01:37.360
they can even contact themselves. Well, what you do in those cases if

701
01:01:37.360 --> 01:01:44.320
you're like anti Jacobson, you don't
want to know what's been the learned so

702
01:01:44.480 --> 01:01:49.480
far. You just don't want to
know because it contradicts what you're trying to

703
01:01:49.519 --> 01:01:53.400
say. So, I mean,
journalists do it all the time when they

704
01:01:53.440 --> 01:01:59.000
when they have a point of view
that they want to advance, they don't

705
01:01:59.039 --> 01:02:05.880
consult what's going before because they don't
want to know. So that's what she's

706
01:02:05.920 --> 01:02:10.440
done. And I think what's interesting
is her book was supposed to be about

707
01:02:10.480 --> 01:02:20.880
Area fifty one, but everybody focused
on what she said about Roswell, and

708
01:02:21.079 --> 01:02:23.840
she got to a point where she
didn't want to talk about the Roswell part

709
01:02:23.920 --> 01:02:28.760
of her book because she was taking
a lot of heat for it, and

710
01:02:29.719 --> 01:02:36.559
rightly so. But it's the same
with the Nick Redford story about the what

711
01:02:36.719 --> 01:02:40.639
is it bodies and mattress in the
desert something like that. Well, he

712
01:02:40.760 --> 01:02:46.119
had anonymous sources as well, and
you can't you can't face a theory on

713
01:02:46.199 --> 01:02:52.159
an you know that you want to
put in a book on anonymous sources.

714
01:02:52.199 --> 01:02:58.440
It just doesn't it doesn't have any
weight then you can do that happen,

715
01:02:58.519 --> 01:03:01.280
and you know it's most the kind
of a fiction type of piece. I

716
01:03:01.320 --> 01:03:07.440
mean, I mean you can you
can make up anything. Yeah, that's

717
01:03:07.280 --> 01:03:15.239
that's why they're uh, they're not
a secondhand testimony or hearsay is not is

718
01:03:15.320 --> 01:03:23.000
not allowable in courts of law because
you can make up anything, and I

719
01:03:23.119 --> 01:03:30.159
submit that they have. Yeah.
So do you feel there's a lot more

720
01:03:30.199 --> 01:03:35.519
work to be done on the Roswell
case? Well, uh, we are

721
01:03:35.719 --> 01:03:42.119
just in a of course, we're
I would say ninety five percent of the

722
01:03:42.280 --> 01:03:50.320
people who were involved in Roswell firsthand
are gone now and there are very few

723
01:03:50.400 --> 01:03:55.719
left. That's becoming clearer and clearer
to me, very few left. But

724
01:03:57.440 --> 01:04:03.119
we will take second hand sources because
they they especially if they corroborate what everyone

725
01:04:03.159 --> 01:04:08.880
else has told us. What we
are really focusing on now is trying to

726
01:04:08.960 --> 01:04:15.119
find a piece of physical evidence,
the only thing we're missing. And whenever

727
01:04:15.199 --> 01:04:23.039
we debate a debunker, usually you
know somebody like what is that fella's name?

728
01:04:24.360 --> 01:04:30.559
Bill? Now? Is that Bill
ny? Mister science? He doesn't

729
01:04:30.639 --> 01:04:39.199
know anything about Roswell, hardly anything. The fallback position for them is,

730
01:04:39.320 --> 01:04:42.519
well, show me a piece of
show me a piece of the ship.

731
01:04:43.840 --> 01:04:47.159
See. To them, that's evidence
is if you have physical evidence, that's

732
01:04:47.199 --> 01:04:51.559
the evidence. But the thing is
in courts of law, testimony, if

733
01:04:51.599 --> 01:04:59.519
compelling enough is evidence. Testimony has
sent many a person to the gas chamber.

734
01:05:00.039 --> 01:05:05.079
And uh, but to the debunkers, the only evidence that's acceptable is

735
01:05:05.159 --> 01:05:10.679
physical evidence. So, uh,
we think we've won the case. Legally.

736
01:05:11.559 --> 01:05:14.920
We've been told many times by lawyers
that it would be a slam dunk,

737
01:05:15.159 --> 01:05:19.880
but uh, scientifically, we need
a piece of physical evidence, and

738
01:05:19.920 --> 01:05:25.639
that's uh, that's that's what we're
focusing on. We call it the holy

739
01:05:25.719 --> 01:05:30.559
Grail of Roswell. Would be a
piece of physical evidence. Now. The

740
01:05:30.639 --> 01:05:34.559
only story I can recall of someone
having a piece was uh, what was

741
01:05:34.559 --> 01:05:43.880
it, Matt Brassele's brother, Oh, his son Bill Bill we used we

742
01:05:44.079 --> 01:05:48.559
usually refer to him as Bill Junior
to uh differentiate him from his father.

743
01:05:48.679 --> 01:05:57.519
But it's just the Bill Bill Brassele
hm. Uh. For for two years,

744
01:05:58.320 --> 01:06:00.519
you know, whenever he wrote the
Ring, and he was still finding

745
01:06:00.599 --> 01:06:05.960
little pieces of he called them scraps, but they were pieces of the ship.

746
01:06:08.559 --> 01:06:14.199
Especially after a rain, you know, they would wash up and he

747
01:06:14.239 --> 01:06:17.679
would whatever he found he put in
a cigar box and included some of the

748
01:06:17.719 --> 01:06:25.280
memory metals. And so in nineteen
forty nine, this is two years after

749
01:06:25.360 --> 01:06:31.760
the crash, he was in Corona
in the bar there Wade's Bar, talking

750
01:06:31.800 --> 01:06:35.960
about it that he had a cigar
box. He mentioned he had a cigar

751
01:06:36.000 --> 01:06:46.679
box full of that stuff. And
the very next day, some airmen showed

752
01:06:46.760 --> 01:06:53.079
up at his house, his ranch
house, and they said, well,

753
01:06:53.119 --> 01:07:00.480
we understand that you have a cigar
box full of some items, and he

754
01:07:00.519 --> 01:07:06.559
said yes. And Bill said he
could tell by their demeanor that they were

755
01:07:06.599 --> 01:07:13.280
going to have that cigar box.
So they asked him for the cigar box,

756
01:07:13.320 --> 01:07:16.960
and he gave it to them.
And he said later on that he

757
01:07:17.800 --> 01:07:23.559
wished he hadn't given it to them, But back in nineteen forty nine,

758
01:07:23.599 --> 01:07:30.559
you pretty much did what the military
said. You know, they had just

759
01:07:30.599 --> 01:07:33.800
won World War Two and they were
at the height of their power and influence

760
01:07:33.840 --> 01:07:40.559
among the American people, and so
he gave it to them. But he

761
01:07:39.639 --> 01:07:44.960
had he had some wreckage in there. Yeah, and unfortunately it's gone.

762
01:07:45.000 --> 01:07:48.000
Now over the years, you've probably
had other people come and tell you they've

763
01:07:48.000 --> 01:07:55.280
got pieces and parts. We've had
some, but they've all that they've all

764
01:07:56.320 --> 01:08:01.480
when it came to producing it,
they all couldn't produce it. It was

765
01:08:01.519 --> 01:08:09.000
somebody else or it was somewhere else. So those stories you have to conclude

766
01:08:09.000 --> 01:08:14.440
were bogus. Yeah, so I
guess your plan then is probably to do

767
01:08:14.719 --> 01:08:21.640
more archaeological kind of Yes, we
are planning another archaeological dig on the Brazle

768
01:08:21.720 --> 01:08:27.920
Ranch, the JB. Foster Ranch, which was run by mac Brasel.

769
01:08:28.279 --> 01:08:32.479
This is where most of the debris
came down and little pieces. The difference

770
01:08:32.560 --> 01:08:39.079
this time will be that we're going
to dig in outlying areas, even away

771
01:08:39.119 --> 01:08:45.800
from the crash site, because the
material from all descriptions was very light and

772
01:08:46.239 --> 01:08:50.159
the wind kicks up out there.
So the thought is that the wind had

773
01:08:50.199 --> 01:08:58.640
blown pieces of it away from the
site that the GI's, the GIS or

774
01:08:58.680 --> 01:09:03.000
the airmen who were sent out clean
up the site would have missed. And

775
01:09:03.520 --> 01:09:06.880
so that's what we're going to do. We're going to concentrate on the outlying

776
01:09:06.960 --> 01:09:13.840
areas to the site, and granted
it's still a needle in the haystack situation,

777
01:09:15.479 --> 01:09:20.119
it will be totally fortuitous if we
find anything because it's a big desert

778
01:09:20.159 --> 01:09:27.880
out there and the wind blows in
circles and it can blow that stuff away

779
01:09:28.000 --> 01:09:32.479
for miles. So it definitely will
be a just a matter of luck if

780
01:09:32.479 --> 01:09:38.239
we find something. But that's the
only proactive thing we can do as far

781
01:09:38.279 --> 01:09:42.640
as trying to find a piece of
the wreckage, short of someone saying,

782
01:09:42.680 --> 01:09:47.600
well, we've had a piece in
the family for sixty years and we're ready

783
01:09:47.640 --> 01:09:53.359
to let you have a look at
it. So I had a fellow I

784
01:09:53.439 --> 01:09:56.039
talked to a couple of years ago. He says, oh, yeah,

785
01:09:56.279 --> 01:09:59.319
we had a piece of it.
We used it as a door stop for

786
01:09:59.479 --> 01:10:02.479
years, lived in Roswell. He
said, yeah, we used it as

787
01:10:02.520 --> 01:10:05.079
a doorstop. I said, well, where is it? He says,

788
01:10:05.239 --> 01:10:09.279
well, I don't know. We've
moved a couple of times and it got

789
01:10:09.319 --> 01:10:13.479
lost in the shuffle of moving.
So that's well, you know, we

790
01:10:13.560 --> 01:10:16.680
get stuff like that. That's funny. So people in Roswell should check their

791
01:10:16.720 --> 01:10:26.279
doorstops. Then we have another woman
whose husband ran the radio station in Roswell

792
01:10:26.319 --> 01:10:31.479
back in forty seven and their son
had gone out to the crash site and

793
01:10:31.560 --> 01:10:36.800
they had taken some pieces before the
military got there, and the story is

794
01:10:36.800 --> 01:10:42.600
that he kept it locked up in
a bank deposit. What do they have

795
01:10:42.680 --> 01:10:46.199
in banks, some sort of deposit
box or something you can keep things in.

796
01:10:46.880 --> 01:10:53.760
He kept it for decades there,
and then he brought it home and

797
01:10:54.239 --> 01:10:59.279
put it in the attic. And
I even volunteered to go through in her

798
01:10:59.319 --> 01:11:02.720
attic to look for it. And
she says, oh no, she says,

799
01:11:02.760 --> 01:11:06.600
I've already done that and I can't
find it. So there's another case.

800
01:11:06.640 --> 01:11:13.079
Another case is Jesse Marcel. We
think there's a piece, a good

801
01:11:13.199 --> 01:11:17.079
chance that they put a piece of
the wreckage underneath the patio. They had

802
01:11:17.119 --> 01:11:24.520
just poured a patio outside their back, outside the back door, and they

803
01:11:24.560 --> 01:11:28.680
had a piece of it, and
they, you know, they said,

804
01:11:28.680 --> 01:11:31.800
well, we better get rid of
this, and so they went out Marcel

805
01:11:31.920 --> 01:11:39.680
and Sheridan cabt the counterintelligence cap and
they went out back with the piece and

806
01:11:39.720 --> 01:11:44.000
came back without it. So well, we think that they put it underneath

807
01:11:44.039 --> 01:11:51.159
the patio. Unfortunately, the patio
is now part of a a not an

808
01:11:51.239 --> 01:11:55.720
extension, but an add on to
the house. It's now a you know,

809
01:11:55.840 --> 01:11:59.479
a utility room, the base of
a utility room inside the house.

810
01:11:59.520 --> 01:12:05.560
So to dig that up you'd have
to tear down the structure of the additional

811
01:12:06.159 --> 01:12:11.560
building. You know, oh man. So we've also had a story that

812
01:12:11.600 --> 01:12:16.720
there's a piece that someone put in
the wall of the big hangar. Okay,

813
01:12:16.720 --> 01:12:19.239
well that's a big hangar. What
part of the wall? You know?

814
01:12:21.319 --> 01:12:27.920
So stuff like that that so far
we are unable to follow up one.

815
01:12:28.399 --> 01:12:32.560
Do you have any feeling or any
hope that there would be any way

816
01:12:32.640 --> 01:12:39.159
to get the government to come clean
on Roswaw. No, they will never

817
01:12:39.239 --> 01:12:44.039
come clean on Roswell, and by
extension, they will never come clean on

818
01:12:44.159 --> 01:12:51.119
UFOs because they don't want to answer
any questions about Roswell, most notably the

819
01:12:51.159 --> 01:13:00.119
brutish behavior that they engaged into silence
civilian witnesses back in nineteen forty seven.

820
01:13:00.439 --> 01:13:06.319
They were today we would call them
civil rights violations. They used threats of

821
01:13:06.680 --> 01:13:13.840
life and limb to silence civilians,
which they cannot do. So they will

822
01:13:13.880 --> 01:13:19.479
never come clean on Roswell because of
that. So there's just no hope there,

823
01:13:20.159 --> 01:13:26.880
no, And by extension, we
believe that they won't ever come clean

824
01:13:26.920 --> 01:13:30.840
on UFOs because as sooner or later, the question will get back to what

825
01:13:31.000 --> 01:13:38.920
happened at Roswell and they don't want
to answer those questions, no matter how

826
01:13:39.039 --> 01:13:46.640
silly their position today looks that it
was a balloon and these anthropomorphic dummies from

827
01:13:46.640 --> 01:13:53.239
the sky that were dropped from parachutes
just ridiculous. Well then you know,

828
01:13:53.520 --> 01:13:58.359
even reading that like in the recent
Yahoo News I think it was Yeahoo News,

829
01:13:58.520 --> 01:14:00.600
and they wrote about how the Air
Force has already come clean. They

830
01:14:00.680 --> 01:14:05.239
already told us it was the Mogul
balloon. And then later these stories of

831
01:14:05.399 --> 01:14:12.720
bodies were these crash just dummies and
the people are confusing their memory. They're

832
01:14:13.600 --> 01:14:17.079
they're just the following the Air Force
line, that's all they're They don't want

833
01:14:17.119 --> 01:14:25.760
to know anything else, so they're
just accepting at face value what the Air

834
01:14:25.800 --> 01:14:29.159
Force said that it was a Project
Mogul. First there was a weather balloon

835
01:14:29.479 --> 01:14:33.479
and they admitted they lied about that, and then it became a Project Mogul

836
01:14:33.479 --> 01:14:42.439
balloon, which sounds good until you
actually examine that position and it falls apart

837
01:14:42.560 --> 01:14:45.279
like a cheap suit. But they
don't want to know the facts, so

838
01:14:45.359 --> 01:14:51.479
they just parrot the Air Force position, and you know, how can you

839
01:14:51.560 --> 01:14:56.399
debate somebody like that. They don't
want to know, they don't know the

840
01:14:56.479 --> 01:15:01.319
facts, and they just they just
repeat the the Air Force line. Yeah,

841
01:15:02.319 --> 01:15:11.760
that's unfortunate. Yeah, it's it's
a very juvenile way of looking something.

842
01:15:11.800 --> 01:15:15.920
You know. It's like in grade
school you do a book report.

843
01:15:15.000 --> 01:15:19.279
You know, you don't know a
whole lot, so you just basically parrot

844
01:15:19.319 --> 01:15:23.640
what was in the book. And
in this case, they they don't want

845
01:15:23.640 --> 01:15:30.479
to know the alternative explanations because it
might upset their their the point of view

846
01:15:30.520 --> 01:15:36.199
that they're trying to put forth,
so they just they accept the Air Force

847
01:15:36.279 --> 01:15:42.760
story that that it was a Project
Mogul balloon and that the stories about little

848
01:15:42.840 --> 01:15:47.680
people were actually these anthropomorphic dummies that
they dropped from the sky actually ten years

849
01:15:47.720 --> 01:15:55.239
after Roswell. So it's just absolutely
no connection. And that's that's such a

850
01:15:55.279 --> 01:16:01.079
flimsy excuse or answer they have for
that, which is that the witness's memories

851
01:16:01.119 --> 01:16:06.720
are fuzzy. Yeah, and they're
mistakingly saying it happened something they call time

852
01:16:06.880 --> 01:16:13.800
compression. Now, I've never come
across anybody that's suffered from time compression,

853
01:16:14.239 --> 01:16:24.600
meaning that if as you age,
your mind loses its ability to separate events

854
01:16:24.840 --> 01:16:32.119
in your life time wise. And
in this case, they're claiming that the

855
01:16:32.159 --> 01:16:39.520
people who reported seeing the little bodies
back in nineteen forty seven were actually referring

856
01:16:39.600 --> 01:16:46.319
to these anthrowarphic dummies, which were
six feet tall and were dropped from the

857
01:16:46.359 --> 01:16:53.560
sky by the Air Force and parachute
tests in the nineteen fifties. They're saying

858
01:16:53.600 --> 01:17:00.159
that they are unable to do or
they're they're conflating or confusing the time periods

859
01:17:00.239 --> 01:17:06.960
involved. Well, anybody that knows
anything about aging the aging process, is

860
01:17:06.960 --> 01:17:14.039
that what happens to as you age, And this doesn't happen to everybody,

861
01:17:14.039 --> 01:17:16.319
it only happens to some people,
is that you you might forget what you

862
01:17:16.479 --> 01:17:23.640
had for dinner last night, but
your long term memory remains intact. Mm.

863
01:17:24.359 --> 01:17:27.840
So that's I mean, that's the
fact, is that your long term

864
01:17:27.840 --> 01:17:33.359
memory remains, but you you lose
track of more recent things. And that's

865
01:17:33.399 --> 01:17:40.840
only in certain you know, a
percentage of cases. But uh, that's

866
01:17:40.840 --> 01:17:45.680
what I think. That's the Air
Force position. Silly is as silly as

867
01:17:45.720 --> 01:17:50.000
it is very silly. So you're
going to be in Roswell this weekend.

868
01:17:51.079 --> 01:18:00.159
Yes, they have the annual UFO
Festival, and Don Schmid and I have

869
01:18:00.239 --> 01:18:06.319
been speakers there and Stan Friedman as
well. For i'd say well over ten

870
01:18:06.399 --> 01:18:13.039
years, maybe fifteen years, we're
speakers down there, and this year we're

871
01:18:13.079 --> 01:18:21.119
going to be talking about Roswell's reluctant
witnesses naming names, and another talk we're

872
01:18:21.119 --> 01:18:28.279
giving is about the alternative explanations for
Roswell that have been put forth over the

873
01:18:28.359 --> 01:18:38.439
years, most recently the anti Jacobsen
book, where they I guess her theory

874
01:18:38.520 --> 01:18:44.600
is that it was the Russians were
trying to scare us, right, so

875
01:18:45.800 --> 01:18:49.199
we'll be talking about that as well. And he used Nazi technology to do

876
01:18:49.279 --> 01:18:56.479
it, yes, And Joseph Mangle, the always popular Joseph Mangle, came

877
01:18:56.560 --> 01:19:00.319
up from Argentina, I guess to
tell them how to do it. It's

878
01:19:00.359 --> 01:19:06.039
just it's so ridiculous on its face, it really doesn't deserve any discussion.

879
01:19:06.199 --> 01:19:15.800
But she got a lot of notoriety
because she's allegedly a journalist, and I

880
01:19:15.800 --> 01:19:20.800
think she's just a contributing editor to
LA magazine, you know, the Sunday

881
01:19:20.840 --> 01:19:27.880
Supplement, and I think that's what
she is. But it's because she had

882
01:19:27.640 --> 01:19:32.479
the term journalist after her name,
she got all this. She got more

883
01:19:32.560 --> 01:19:41.199
exposure for her book than we have
for all of the things we've written over

884
01:19:41.239 --> 01:19:45.239
the years, over twenty years.
Yes, well, I know in the

885
01:19:45.279 --> 01:19:55.039
past she's written the other stories been
criticizing for over hyping things for you know,

886
01:19:55.159 --> 01:19:59.079
just to get things over sensational.
I think, yes, yes,

887
01:19:59.119 --> 01:20:03.560
and I guarantee you he knew nothing
about Roswell other than the name. And

888
01:20:03.720 --> 01:20:08.039
we we you know, there's a
lot of people, I say a lot

889
01:20:08.039 --> 01:20:11.479
of people. There's some people that
say, well, I'm going to go

890
01:20:11.560 --> 01:20:15.439
to Roswell over this weekend and I'm
going to solve the case. Well,

891
01:20:15.479 --> 01:20:17.800
you know, we've been on this
case twenty over twenty years, each of

892
01:20:17.880 --> 01:20:24.800
us, and we're still learning things. But you take somebody like Annie Jacobson,

893
01:20:25.159 --> 01:20:29.520
I would guess that she she didn't
spend over an hour on this case.

894
01:20:30.560 --> 01:20:38.560
She talked to this anonymous witness and
wrote everything he said down and that

895
01:20:38.720 --> 01:20:42.279
was all that was all her.
That was some total of her research,

896
01:20:42.680 --> 01:20:47.720
right, and she gets she gets
to go on every show. I think

897
01:20:47.760 --> 01:20:51.079
she was on CNN, Fox,
you name it, she was on it.

898
01:20:53.119 --> 01:20:57.640
And we are just we were just
stunned up the coverage she got for

899
01:20:57.720 --> 01:21:02.600
this. And well, I'm excited
for this weekend. And there are still

900
01:21:02.640 --> 01:21:06.800
hotel rooms I've read, so people
can still go out to Roswell this weekend.

901
01:21:08.560 --> 01:21:12.199
Of course, it's the big festival
where a lot going on, and

902
01:21:12.239 --> 01:21:15.439
you guys are speaking at the museum. We're actually going to have a table

903
01:21:15.479 --> 01:21:20.159
there too, so you are yeah, yep, all right, yeah.

904
01:21:20.199 --> 01:21:26.960
Our last magazine was on Roswell and
Don and Stanton contributed to it. So

905
01:21:27.159 --> 01:21:32.800
people can come and see those guys
and learn a lot of information and see

906
01:21:32.800 --> 01:21:38.800
some of your talks. They sound
really interesting. Well, yes, and

907
01:21:38.840 --> 01:21:45.159
we will also have a panel every
Saturday night and I guess it's Saturday night

908
01:21:45.199 --> 01:21:51.439
this time. There we always have
a panel with Stan, Don and myself

909
01:21:51.479 --> 01:21:58.319
and this year I think we're including
Kevin Randalls, so it probably probably will

910
01:21:58.359 --> 01:22:01.840
be the four of us, right, the top four Roswell researchers. You

911
01:22:01.960 --> 01:22:08.760
got it. That's cool. So
that's as good as it gets. Yes,

912
01:22:09.720 --> 01:22:14.039
we hope. All right, Well, thank you so much. Listen

913
01:22:14.079 --> 01:22:19.600
to your website is Roswell Investigator dot
com. Yes, and Manica is Witness

914
01:22:19.640 --> 01:22:28.600
to Roswell and Stan, myself and
Don we contributed to another book that just

915
01:22:28.680 --> 01:22:32.640
came out. It's called UFOs and
Aliens. Is There is there Anybody out

916
01:22:32.640 --> 01:22:39.840
there? It's by our publisher,
New Page Books, and it's what it

917
01:22:39.920 --> 01:22:46.600
is. It's an anthology about UFOs
and covers abductions and Roswell and every every

918
01:22:46.680 --> 01:22:53.119
aspect of UFOs, and it just
came out UFOs and aliens. Is there

919
01:22:53.159 --> 01:22:56.640
anybody out there UFOs and aliens?
I didn't know about that? Great?

920
01:22:57.279 --> 01:23:02.239
Yes, all right, thanks for
updating us and looking forward to this weekend,

921
01:23:02.239 --> 01:23:05.039
and thank you so much for joining
us. Well, I guess we'll

922
01:23:05.039 --> 01:23:09.079
see you down there. Yep,
we'll see you there, all right?

923
01:23:09.279 --> 01:23:15.119
You hanging out? Take care you
two? Hello? Hello, Hello,

924
01:23:15.600 --> 01:23:23.199
is there anybody in there? Hello? That wasn't really David Gilmore. That

925
01:23:23.319 --> 01:23:28.600
was me. David Gilmore, by
the way, now that i'm thinking of

926
01:23:28.680 --> 01:23:32.760
him, is a supporter of Gary
McKinnon, the UFO hacker. I wonder

927
01:23:32.840 --> 01:23:39.359
if he believes in UFOs. If
any of you know him, ask him

928
01:23:39.520 --> 01:23:44.000
and let us know what you discover. Hey, maybe i'll see him in

929
01:23:44.079 --> 01:23:48.199
Roswell next weekend. Maybe I'll see
you in Roswell next weekend. If you're

930
01:23:48.199 --> 01:23:51.880
gonna be in Roswell, come by
and say hi. I'll probably be Hopefully

931
01:23:51.880 --> 01:23:57.600
I'll be in the table next to
Don and Tom, or next to Stanton

932
01:23:57.720 --> 01:24:00.920
or who knows. There are all
my buddies out there lots of cool people

933
01:24:00.960 --> 01:24:04.920
go to Roswell and do some talks
at the museum and have tables there where

934
01:24:05.039 --> 01:24:14.359
they are signing books and sharing their
information, and that's what the famous international

935
01:24:14.560 --> 01:24:25.760
euthologist Antonio Juneos and myself Alejandro Rojas
with Hispanic names like that. So close

936
01:24:25.800 --> 01:24:30.680
to the border, hopefully we won't
get in any trouble. And you know,

937
01:24:30.720 --> 01:24:33.119
funny enough, our route really goes
right on the border of the Mexico

938
01:24:33.399 --> 01:24:38.720
out and we kind of loop down
and sneak up on Roswell coming from the

939
01:24:38.760 --> 01:24:44.920
south, So hopefully we won't run
into any trouble taking that route, sneaking

940
01:24:45.319 --> 01:24:49.279
in this way. But yeah,
we're going to be there selling our Roswell

941
01:24:49.399 --> 01:24:55.640
magazines like I've talked about. So
we won't be able to have our show

942
01:24:55.720 --> 01:24:59.680
next week, as I mentioned earlier, so we're taking the week off,

943
01:25:00.239 --> 01:25:02.439
and I don't have an old interview
to kind of throw up there for you

944
01:25:02.439 --> 01:25:08.039
guys either, like I did for
a Memorial weekend. So you're just gonna

945
01:25:08.079 --> 01:25:12.119
have to if you miss me,
because I know I'm gonna miss you guys

946
01:25:12.560 --> 01:25:17.239
a whole lot. But of course
we have dozens and dozens and dozens of

947
01:25:18.000 --> 01:25:24.680
archived interviews, so if there's one
you know, go look there and see

948
01:25:24.720 --> 01:25:27.439
all those tons of interviews we have, and if there's one you missed,

949
01:25:28.119 --> 01:25:30.960
check it out. Or if you
want to listen again, like Grant Cameron,

950
01:25:31.000 --> 01:25:34.560
I love the Grand Cameron one where
we're talking about Spielberg and UFOs.

951
01:25:34.640 --> 01:25:39.039
Of course that wasn't too long ago, but you can pick up my old

952
01:25:39.279 --> 01:25:44.520
Don Schmidt interview from over a year
ago and hear some more about Roswell and

953
01:25:44.560 --> 01:25:47.760
his take on some of what Tom
and I talked about, or a number

954
01:25:48.279 --> 01:25:51.560
of others. Or you can listen
to Nick Pope, and in honor of

955
01:25:51.600 --> 01:25:57.159
the British and our independence from them, you can go listen to the UK

956
01:25:58.239 --> 01:26:01.800
guy Nick Pope, who's a British
gentleman who of course worked for the Ministry

957
01:26:01.840 --> 01:26:06.399
of Defense, which is I think
where James Bond works. So really cool

958
01:26:06.439 --> 01:26:13.000
guy. He's always a lot of
fun. Anyway, we will be back

959
01:26:13.159 --> 01:26:19.680
in two weeks with a phenomenal guest
who I'm going to be very excited to

960
01:26:19.720 --> 01:26:24.800
talk to, because I'm very excited
to talk to all of our guests.

961
01:26:25.399 --> 01:26:30.359
You guys, have a wonderful fourth
of July and we will talk to you

962
01:26:30.479 --> 01:26:31.640
later. Audio Smooth Taco's