WEBVTT

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Hello, and welcome to Open Mind
UFO Radio. I am your host,

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Alejandro Rojas, and I have with
me Jason Ghostbuster McClellan. That's fat Albert.

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I didn't say Jason fat Albert McClellan. No, you didn't, but

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that's what was in my mind.
It is still pretty cool. I liked

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it, so and uh, well
we'll just talk. I talk at say

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Ghostbusters because Maureen went out to visit
you in Boise and I don't know if

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you noticed in spacing out, uh
last week, I said Boise. I

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didn't notice that, but good job, dude. Yeah you think because you

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taught me. That's how the locals
say it, so that's how I said

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it. I didn't see any I
never I don't read the comments often in

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YouTube and for people out there,
I don't look at the comments much for

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two reasons. One, I'm too
busy. I mean, I can't be

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out there interacting because I'm writing stories
and everything. I'd rather get you guys

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more news and go interact on on
you know, social media or whatever.

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Two, uh, you know,
a lot of times it gives me a

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lot of heartache. And of course
we talked with Lee about this because he's

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always ranty about comments and stories and
everything when he comes on, So you

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know, because there's a lot of
jerk off trallers out there just trying to

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push buttons and stuff like that.
But thank you to all those who do

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make kind and intelligent comments, because
there are many of you, and we

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certainly very much appreciate that. But
how I got up on that tangent,

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Nobody commented to tell you congratulations.
You pronounced bose right right right. But

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speaking of Bois, Maureen went out
to visit you this weekend and you guys

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went ghost hunting, and maybe you
could tell us a little bit about that.

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Sure, it was a special ghost
hunt because it happened to be on

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Friday the thirteenth, so it was
extra spooky. And it's at a place

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that's supposed to be haunted anyway.
It's the old old State Penitentiary here in

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Boise, Idaho. Lots of people
died during their stay there, various suicides

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and shankings and then executions at the
old gallows, both inside and outside.

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They had both side and outside gallows, so lots of people died. There

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are lots of interesting stories. So
went with this group for an interesting ghost

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hunt on Friday the thirteenth, and
all hond some interesting stuff happened. Yeah,

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ghost hunts can be kind of boring, but yeah, no, there

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were interesting things here and there with
doors visibly being seen opening and closing,

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big heavy steel doors like opening and
slamming shut off. Yeah, explain that

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that's cool. Okay. So we
were in a one of the cell blocks

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with our little group, and this
pair of women were looking out a window

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across the courtyard over toward Maximum Security
and this heavy metal door. They observed

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it open by itself and then slammed
shut and everybody heard this, and that's

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when they told us what they observed. So the people leading our group took

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off from our cell block and went
over to investigate. They went inside.

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First, they radioed to their head
people to find out make sure there wasn't

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any groups over in that building at
the time. There wasn't, so they

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went over to check out this room, and when they went in, they

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heard footsteps for themselves, like strong
footsteps. They went around the entire building.

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There was nobody in there. So
when they came back out, they

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thought, well, maybe the wind
is blowing this door closed, but they

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felt it huge steel door, and
the wind wasn't really blowing that much,

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but they pushed the door all the
way open and left it there and watched

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it for a while, didn't move
at all, so they started walking away.

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They left the door open. They
started walking away, so they were

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not facing the door at this time. But everybody in our group staring out

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the window was watching this door as
they walked away, and the door just

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really hard did this huge slam and
slam shut behind him. It was pretty

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awesome to watch. Wow. Crazy. Yeah, so all of you got

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to see that door slam shut behind
him. Yeah, it was fun.

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There were some other things, interesting
rumbles, and some possible EVPs and some

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spikes on the EMF meter. All
in all, it was a very entertaining

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night. Cool. That'll be cool
if you get some EVPs, and I

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know we focus on UFOs, but
if you get some EVPs, we'll play

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them on the show. That's right, because we don't really know much about

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EVPs. They could be extraterrestrial communications, so why not good be Yeah,

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good point, very good point.
All right, So thank you for the

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Ghostbuster report, Jason. A little
bit about our guests. I told you

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all we would have the twin brothers
related to the Aligash case. I hope

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you all enjoyed last week's interview with
Jim Wiener. Now, the interviews start

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off kind of abruptly because you know, they were Skype interviews taken for video,

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and we're going to edit together interviews
with with Jim Waiter Jack Wiener.

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Those are the two twin brothers and
Chuck Foltz, who was speaking at the

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UFO Congress about the Aligash incident.
And we're going to put a video eventually

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online on YouTube together going over the
end today because it's such a cool case

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and so important. But we had
Jim Wiener who usually joined Chuck Folts doing

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talks on lectures on the incident.
But Jim also has back problems and health

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issues that he talked about, you
know, in the show, which is

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so coincidental and so interesting that that
you know, found him getting his way

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to John Mack and all of these
UFO researchers. But that also now is

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starting to hamper his ability to travel
and go to conferences, so he couldn't

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make it to the Congress. But
his twin brother, Jack has had health

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issues for a long time, and
he also he's really I think he said

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he only went to maybe one UFO
conference because his health issues don't allow him

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to travel. So luckily we were
able to get him on video and also

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do this audio interview. So I
want to share with you the audio interview

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today, and it's essentially talking about
the same top or subjects and incident for

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the most part, not completely as
Jim his brother, however, from his

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perspective, and these guys are cool. I hope you found that with Jim.

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If you know Chuck or we're at
the guil for Congress, you know

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that of him. They're just cool, down to earth people. So it's

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so fun to listen to them.
They're Boston guys, so they got this

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Boston accent, but they're just straightforward, regular guys, and so I think

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hearing it from their mouth is interesting. And the difference is in perspective.

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For the most part, they remember
the incident similarly, but just like any

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group of people witnessing something, they
remember different aspects of different things. And

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not only that, as you heard
with Jim last week, their artwork changed.

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They were all artists and they're completely
changed after this incident. So we'll

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hear from Jack's himself and how his
artwork changed and how it changed his life.

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He also shares some really interesting at
least one interesting incident that happened afterwards

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that he and Chuck experienced, which
is really weird. So some really cool

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stuff. I think these interviews to
me are terribly interesting, and I hope

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you find them interesting as well.
For me, they were so easy to

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sit down and listen to for an
hour each and you know, time flies

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by, You're like wow, just
because it's such interesting stuff and they tell

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the story so well. So we'll
be listening to Jack in just a minute.

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Here his side of the story with
the Ali Gash abductions. And just

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to catch you up, just in
case this is your first podcast that you've

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listened to with us or you didn't
get a listen to last week, the

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al abductions took place in nineteen seventy
sixth incidentally the year after the Travis Walton

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abduction experiences. But they were these
four guys who and decided to go take

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this kayak trip in Maine in an
area called the Allegash, and they had

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seen a UFO one night soon a
night after I think maybe it was a

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couple of nights after they saw this
thing up close and personal and had a

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harrowing experience with it, ended up
having some missing time later on due to

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nightmares. They got some regression done
and some they all had very similar things

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that they remembered independently, but as
you'll hear with Jack, they remember different

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stuff. So really cool. So
you hear more about that in a minute.

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But before we do that, as
usual, Jason and I like to

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share the UFO news of the week, and there's some really cool news came

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that happened this last week, and
so we'll let Jason start off. Which

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story do you want to talk about? But I'm going to talk about something

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that you know is a mini mini
trend here. And that's the way the

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news works. You know, if
you watch mainstream news, sometimes there's a

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big story that comes out on a
certain topic, and all of a sudden,

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it seems like there are a lots
of stories about that same topic,

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and you think it, why,
why is this happening? With plane crashes

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and things? For a wow,
more planes are crashing now. The reality

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is there are always that number of
plane crashes, but that's been what's been

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making headlines lately. So they kind
of focus on that topic. And that's

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what we're seeing right now, I
think with a lot of UFOs being captured

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on newscasts, and we see this
coming in trends. It comes and goes.

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But that's another trend right now.
UFO is caught during live newscasts and

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it's a pretty silly summer or hoaxes
for whatever reason. But there's one,

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Alejandro, and I want to hear
your opinion on this, but there was

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one last week. It was caught
on camera during an Oklahoma City newscast.

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Now, they were playing a video
in the background from one of their skycams,

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and there's just this kind of bright
dot that glides through the sky very

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quickly, but it moves all the
way across the frame and really interesting,

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it doesn't deviate it all. It
almost looks like the flight path of this

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thing looks like you would expect an
airplane on a time lapse camera coming in

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for landing at an airport. But
this is not a time lapse video.

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The way this thing looks on the
camera is very strange. The news station

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did they saw it. They didn't
see it at the time that the live

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broadcast was happening, but they did
post later the video on their website,

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a thirteen second video, and you
see this thing very clearly kind of moving

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through the sky. Now all on
Hunter. What they did was, after

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they published this video, they went
and spoke to people at a local college,

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and these experts whoever they spoke to
at this college very quickly wrote it

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off as being a like a p
sized mediaite or space debris. And I'm

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not an expert, and I'm not
going to claim to be, but we

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see a lot of these videos with
things going through the sky, and a

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lot of videos of mediaites and space
junk, and that's not what this looks

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like. You know those you see, you know, fiery tales. You

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see debris burning off of this thing. And as we see this going down,

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you know, there's no apparent impact. And some can argue that you

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even see it kind of slow down
and change trajectory when it gets closer to

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the ground. But I think this
is an interesting video. It's potentially there's

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a potential that it could simply be
a bug. But the thing that makes

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me think that it probably not a
bug is it seems to maintain its illumination

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throughout the entire course of its flight, it doesn't change in brightness at all,

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and then it has a really interesting
behavior when it gets close to the

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ground. It doesn't look like an
impacts or anything. So I like this

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video all hunter. It's fun.
Yeah, I like it too. I

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think it's really interesting and I have
not you know, personally, I don't

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feel like I know what it is
for certain. I didn't know about them

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talking to the college. So that's
really interesting, and I agree with you.

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I kind of was thinking it could
possibly be, you know, a

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meteorite or something, or possibly a
bug, but there's problems with both of

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those theories. Like you said,
I mean, if you look at the

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video, it's coming in at a
very low trajectory and it doesn't of course,

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we look at meteorite videos all the
time, and it doesn't look like

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that at all. I mean,
it doesn't seem to have a tail.

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It's kind of a streak, but
it seems that's more related to it moving

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fast across the screen. Like you
said, it's not a time lapse,

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and surprisingly, you know, Mark
d' antonio, Moufon's photo analyst experts,

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said he thinks it's a time lapse
because he thinks there are frame drops,

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I suggested, and I haven't followed
up to see what his comment was on

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this. At it, the camera
could be low frames per second, which

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could be making it look like it's
always possible and that, I mean,

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that's what a lot of these videos
can put together. But we have other

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things for reference. In this video. You see exacting lots. That's why

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it's not time laps at the appropriate
speed. So it is not time laps

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in my opinion exactly. The cars
are moving at typical speed, and you

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know video cams that the news goes
to for traffic are real time. They're

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not time laps. You know,
they'll do time labs for in and outs,

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you know, for for to look
cool, so it looks really neat,

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But this isn't this. The cars
are moving in regular speed, so

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if anything, it's it's very few
frames per second, which those cameras do

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sometimes to save memory. Multiple items
in the video to look at it to

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see that. I mean, you
see driving in the parking lot and you

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see cars driving on the street,
and they're both smooth motion. It's not

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you know, kind of blurry jittery
because they're missing frames. I mean,

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it looks like a real time video
to me, mm hmm. And with

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the thing that you know, seems
to eliminate the likelihood of something coming from

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space, something that would typically come
from space, you know, like a

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space junk or a media write.
This thing appears and it's hard to tell

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with the camera, but it appears
to be just white. That's really the

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only color we see, Whereas with
other things entering the atmosphere very quickly and

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based on their composition, they burn
different colors. Usually see you know,

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bright orange fireballs or things burning green
or other colors because of their elements.

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This is just a white light moving
through the sky. Yeah. I also

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saw in the forum, you know, very quickly the director of investigations for

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move On he felt, Steve Hudgens
that it was a bug, and which

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is a possibility. And even in
the story we draw the similarity between it

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and the drone footage, which most
likely was a bug you know, from

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last week. But the problem with
that is, like you said, it

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maintained its luminosity throughout the video.
And we've seen bug videos and usually they

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fade, they're in the spotlight for
a minute as and while they're in the

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spotlight, they look like a bright
white object as they zoom across, but

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usually once they get out of the
spotlight, you know, they fade.

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Now, his argument is that this
this area is well lit. There's lights

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all over the place, and this
thing is probably getting lit from those things.

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I guess it's a possibility, but
it just doesn't all. It doesn't

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look like it. It looks very
different work to be that size. Yeah,

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00:16:42.399 --> 00:16:45.879
it would need to be fairly close
to the camera. Yeah, and

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you know bugs, they usually zip, you know, that's why we see

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the things that people think are rods
and other you know, right, erratic

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flight behavior. This thing is just
a very slow, straight movement across the

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sky, not like a tip of
bug flight path. Yeah, it doesn't.

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00:17:02.440 --> 00:17:06.960
It doesn't look like the bug videos. That's why I like this video

218
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to me is a truly unknown Although
the problem with when it gets close to

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the ground, I think we can't
tell because they go they change cameras,

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and when they do it, they
fade. It's a dissolve from the city

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to the people, and so you
get a lot of weird looking things because

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then you get some of the white
objects from the next screen coming in,

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and so it can look weird when
it's not, so it's really hard to

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tell there if if I think if
it really does something different at the end

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because of that dissolve. But yeah, I think it's a great video.

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I'm excited about this when I think
it's really cool, and I think it's

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really cool that they posted it and
said, hey, did we catch UFO

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on camera? So yeah, I
don't think it's as easily dismissable as some

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of the other videos we've seen on
news things lately. Yeah, that's right.

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I do think this one is worthy
of a second look if people haven't

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looked at it more than once.
And I do think it's worthy of getting

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other expert opinions, you know,
beyond the people at the local university or

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local college they spoke with. Because
again I'm not claiming to be an expert,

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but you and I have seen many
videos of media writes and other space

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junk, and this is completely different. So yeah, it looks different than

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anything else we've seen cool stuff.
Of course, there's a big story some

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of you may be aware Obama talking
with Jimmy Kimmel about UFOs, But before

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we get to that, I want
to ask about one of the stories you

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00:18:41.480 --> 00:18:42.960
wrote real quick because I think this
is kind of a big deal and we'll

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try to cover this, I guess
fairly quickly. But the possibility of sea

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life on and Keledus Enceladus, Yep, yeah, what they find. So

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this is something that they've been looking
at for many years now. There's been

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00:19:02.480 --> 00:19:07.039
evidence that there, you know,
these geyser plumes shooting off of Saturn's moon

244
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Enceladus, and it's got this icy
crust like a lot of moons do.

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00:19:11.559 --> 00:19:17.279
But they saw water vapor being spewed
out by these geysers, and what teams

246
00:19:17.319 --> 00:19:22.319
were able to do is collect some
of this stuff and analyze what these geysers

247
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were actually spewing. Well, so
they used the cosmic dust analyzer aboard the

248
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Cassini spacecraft and they found out that
the spray contains ice crystals and fine silica

249
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dust. So scientists did a bunch
of experiments and found out that the only

250
00:19:37.720 --> 00:19:48.000
way that this particular mixture could be
created was through hydrotherbal events basically at the

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bottom of the ocean, or that's
what they compared it to here on Earth.

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They found those same conditions only in
these deep hydrotherbal events at the bottom

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of the Atlantic ocean and down there
they find all sorts of weird, creepy

254
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looking life that thrives without any sunlight, you know, super far from the

255
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surface. So they're saying that's most
likely what exists on this moon, making

256
00:20:12.720 --> 00:20:18.000
it extremely likely that there is a
host of life there because the water in

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the sea that exists on this moon
would be warm enough to sustain life.

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Cool. Huh, that's really wild. The warm water on this moon.

259
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That that's pretty exciting, I think
it. Yeah, it's really exciting.

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And there are because now more moons
in our solar system that have these subsurface

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oceans, so I think that's rapidly
becoming the norm. And again with astrobiologists

262
00:20:45.359 --> 00:20:48.839
in their search for life, they
always look for life as we know it,

263
00:20:48.880 --> 00:20:49.680
and what is life as we know
it? Need? Well? Water,

264
00:20:49.759 --> 00:20:53.559
you find water, you're gonna find
life. And it's funny and these

265
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stories like this story. You know, we had talked about how there's more

266
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and more evidence of life out there
there and even from mainstream science, and

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we talk about how that keeps escalating, and we get like this story,

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which is something neither of us I
think could have predicted even a couple of

269
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months ago, when we talked about
this, uh, and so it's even

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coming from areas which which we never
would have thought of. That's right.

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And as we've said before, I
think it's just kind of spiraling, spiraling

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out of control from here is just
going to keep coming at at a more

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accelerated pace. All of this news
because again, all of these tools out

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there doing their investigations of certain planets, and you know, all the grand

275
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hopes that NASA has in other countries
to get to these different bodies to better

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explore these worlds. We really don't
know anything about. That's all happening.

277
00:21:48.960 --> 00:21:53.000
But again, private space is going
crazy too. So yeah, things are

278
00:21:53.039 --> 00:21:56.720
looking good for my bed, Alejandro. We're finding them. We're finding them

279
00:21:56.720 --> 00:22:00.000
in the next two years. Looking
pretty good. Look, I'm pretty good.

280
00:22:00.079 --> 00:22:04.799
You might be winning. So and
Obama says that the government's under control

281
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of aliens. So Jimmy Kimmel and
I was going to write about it,

282
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but I didn't where I read on
an LA Time scene where Kimmel threatened that

283
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he was going to ask Obama about
aliens like he did with Clinton, and

284
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sure enough he did it. So
he had Obama on the other day,

285
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and just like he did when he
had you know, former President Clinton on,

286
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he said, the first thing I
would do if I were president is

287
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to race over and ask about area
fifty one in Aliens. And Obama said,

288
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that's why you're never going to be
president, and he laughed, and

289
00:22:36.960 --> 00:22:38.680
of course Kimmel says, well,
there's many reasons I'm not going to be

290
00:22:38.680 --> 00:22:44.119
president, but that's one of them. So so he said, you know,

291
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is that what you did? And
Obama said that the Aliens won't let

292
00:22:53.559 --> 00:23:00.759
it happen. They won't let you
reveal all of their secrets because they strict

293
00:23:00.839 --> 00:23:06.160
control over us. So kim O
laughed and Obama smiling and laughing, and

294
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so kim Oll told him, this
is kind of funny that, you know,

295
00:23:10.160 --> 00:23:11.160
there's gonna be a lot of people
that are going to look at your

296
00:23:11.200 --> 00:23:17.440
facial expressions and examine everything you say
here. And Obama says, well,

297
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I can't reveal anything. And it
makes it seem like he saw, you

298
00:23:21.359 --> 00:23:26.200
know, Ben Hansen's review of Clinton. Ben Hansen did that watch his face

299
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and his movements, and Ben Hanson
determined Clinton might be hiding something. Yeah,

300
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I think it was a little nod
there to bet So. And then

301
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kim referenced that. He said,
oh, really, you know, to

302
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they can't reveal everything because Clinton was
here, and he said he did go

303
00:23:42.559 --> 00:23:47.079
look into it and there was nothing
to it. And Obama said, well,

304
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that's what we're instructed to say.
So it was a really funny moment.

305
00:23:52.119 --> 00:23:57.599
You know, I don't know why
I feel a bit apologetic saying this,

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because there's a lot of people that
can so excited about stuff like this,

307
00:24:02.279 --> 00:24:07.079
but I have the feeling, you
know, being an Obama I'll admit

308
00:24:07.160 --> 00:24:10.079
it. I'm an Obama fan myself, and I think he has this great

309
00:24:10.119 --> 00:24:15.559
sense of humor and he really cracks
me up. He's hilarious. This made

310
00:24:15.559 --> 00:24:18.480
me laugh because I think it just
fits with his sense of humor. He's

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00:24:18.559 --> 00:24:22.119
just joking with Kimmel. He's making
kim O laugh. It was a really

312
00:24:22.160 --> 00:24:27.039
funny moment. But I don't believe
and I wrote in the story a bunch

313
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of evidence of you know, not
only other people presidents joking about UFOs,

314
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but Obama joking about UFOs because he's
done it before. But Obama seems to

315
00:24:38.480 --> 00:24:44.880
have absolutely no interest in UFOs and
aliens except for it to make some jokes

316
00:24:44.920 --> 00:24:48.200
about him. And I think this
was just jokes. But what do you

317
00:24:48.240 --> 00:24:51.759
think that seems about? Right?
You know, it's fitting with his character,

318
00:24:52.359 --> 00:24:55.960
Like you pointed out, he's done
it before. Yeah, and he's

319
00:24:55.960 --> 00:24:59.960
never really demonstrated any interest at all
on the subject other than using it for

320
00:25:00.119 --> 00:25:03.960
jokes. Yeah. It is late
night TV, and you know people like

321
00:25:03.000 --> 00:25:07.759
to say that, you know,
there's there's truth and every bit of truth

322
00:25:07.759 --> 00:25:11.519
in every lie. So many people
are reading a lot into these comments.

323
00:25:11.599 --> 00:25:21.559
Is some secretive admitting the truth but
I don't think so. Yeah, because

324
00:25:21.599 --> 00:25:23.640
of his lack of interest in the
subject, or apparent lack of interest,

325
00:25:25.799 --> 00:25:30.000
there's no reason for then the secret
people with all of the secret information to

326
00:25:30.079 --> 00:25:34.279
even bother giving him any of that
information not going to look for it,

327
00:25:34.680 --> 00:25:38.440
so they're not going to fill him
in. Yeah, whatever, I mean,

328
00:25:38.720 --> 00:25:42.039
it was a late night talk show. You can take what you want

329
00:25:42.079 --> 00:25:47.480
from it. I don't think he
was being serious at all, but that's

330
00:25:47.599 --> 00:25:49.519
just me. It'd be cool if
he was, but then again, not

331
00:25:49.640 --> 00:25:55.960
cool because who wants to know that
we're actually controlled by alien Yeah, it's

332
00:25:56.039 --> 00:26:00.359
kind of scary. So people aliens
are nice, Yeah, and if they're

333
00:26:00.359 --> 00:26:03.559
maybe they're controlling us to do nice
things where they're not controlling us to save

334
00:26:03.599 --> 00:26:07.680
our planet. I mean, we're
tearing the place apart. So yeah,

335
00:26:07.880 --> 00:26:12.599
so really, but it was fun
to look at. Of course, when

336
00:26:12.640 --> 00:26:17.480
Jason and I write our stories,
we try to be journalistic and unbiased and

337
00:26:17.559 --> 00:26:22.400
just share the information with you.
And certainly we appreciate everybody has their own

338
00:26:22.440 --> 00:26:29.119
opinion and we absolutely respect that and
that people have varying opinions. But you

339
00:26:29.119 --> 00:26:33.000
should read our story because I do
share a lot of information. Some more

340
00:26:33.039 --> 00:26:38.720
information about Obama's other comments. You
can also see President Clinton's comments. You

341
00:26:38.759 --> 00:26:45.799
can also see, you know,
a similar situation that's debated where Ronald Reagan

342
00:26:45.519 --> 00:26:49.440
was maybe joking about you ets.
It seems like he was. He was

343
00:26:49.559 --> 00:26:56.000
joking with Steven Spielberg. Spielberg says
he was joking, but some UFO researchers

344
00:26:56.079 --> 00:26:59.160
believe he wasn't. You could read
about that. So read about all this

345
00:26:59.319 --> 00:27:02.920
and then make up your decision for
yourself, and of course watch the videos

346
00:27:03.279 --> 00:27:07.960
because the comments without the videos can
really be taken out of context. The

347
00:27:07.039 --> 00:27:11.599
other thing which I think is fun
is you know all this talk about Area

348
00:27:11.640 --> 00:27:15.480
fifty one, and again it's just
kind of mind blowing to think that we

349
00:27:15.519 --> 00:27:18.880
had, we were able to spend
a little bit of time with Bob Lazar

350
00:27:19.200 --> 00:27:23.880
who started all the Area fifty one
stuff. It's just interesting that this one

351
00:27:23.920 --> 00:27:30.319
guy, in his claims, has
created such a big fervor about Area fifty

352
00:27:30.319 --> 00:27:33.720
one and everything, and here we
go we have the president. Not the

353
00:27:33.759 --> 00:27:38.880
first time the president's talked about Area
fifty one in Aliens. It's such a

354
00:27:40.000 --> 00:27:44.720
normal topic of conversation now and a
normal topic and movies and television, and

355
00:27:44.880 --> 00:27:47.599
it always has been. That's the
funny thing, Like, yeah, ever

356
00:27:47.680 --> 00:27:52.720
since Bob are it's common knowledge.
But fortunately last year, last year,

357
00:27:52.759 --> 00:27:59.000
it all came out, Alejandro,
all the secrets the last year, Yes

358
00:27:59.240 --> 00:28:02.440
that Area fifty one exists, because
oh right, you didn't know, right,

359
00:28:02.680 --> 00:28:04.799
Yeah, we were kept in the
dark. Everybody knew, and it's

360
00:28:04.839 --> 00:28:10.039
so funny. Yeah, it's really
funny. So and up until last year

361
00:28:10.039 --> 00:28:12.960
when the you know, the Area
fifty one is finally you know, the

362
00:28:14.079 --> 00:28:18.359
name being included in the documents.
There are a lot of people who didn't

363
00:28:18.359 --> 00:28:23.480
believe it existed, just because if
Bob Bzar and his attaching the et stuff

364
00:28:23.519 --> 00:28:26.039
with it, they thought it was
all made up. But now they know

365
00:28:26.240 --> 00:28:30.839
it was real. And I think
a lot of people still think they still

366
00:28:30.839 --> 00:28:33.599
don't know, yeah, you know, unless they follow the news or were

367
00:28:33.599 --> 00:28:37.480
actually paying attention when I was making
headlines. Many people still think that area

368
00:28:37.519 --> 00:28:41.000
fifty one is just a myth.
Yeah, true. But anyways, go

369
00:28:41.079 --> 00:28:45.680
check that out. Some people you
know asked, and we've got links all

370
00:28:45.720 --> 00:28:48.200
over the place to where you could
get the dvd, the full dvd in

371
00:28:48.279 --> 00:28:52.000
that story. I have a small
clip of the Bob Blazar talk so you

372
00:28:52.039 --> 00:28:56.119
can see that, but you'll definitely, I think, want to check that

373
00:28:56.160 --> 00:29:00.880
out George and Napp and his presentation
prior to Bob Bazaar, and then watch

374
00:29:00.920 --> 00:29:06.920
Bob Blizar because it's pretty interesting stuff
there and once in a lifetime kind of

375
00:29:06.960 --> 00:29:11.519
thing of him doing a Q and
A so exciting stuff. That's the news.

376
00:29:11.599 --> 00:29:17.039
Anything else you wanted to mention their
big Jay, No, sir,

377
00:29:17.160 --> 00:29:21.000
that's it for me. All right. Well, thank you as usual for

378
00:29:21.079 --> 00:29:26.559
joining us and sharing us your ghost
hunt info and we look forward to hearing

379
00:29:26.599 --> 00:29:33.440
if there are any other results.
All right, Well, you're very skinny

380
00:29:33.440 --> 00:29:37.519
guy, so but so it's ironic
to call you fat, but thank you

381
00:29:37.640 --> 00:29:41.759
very much, Fat Jason, my
pleasure. All right, So, let's

382
00:29:41.799 --> 00:29:47.720
go ahead and hear Jack Wiener on
his side of the story of the Alligash

383
00:29:47.799 --> 00:29:52.440
abductions. So I guess to start
off, we'll go all the way to

384
00:29:52.920 --> 00:29:59.480
the night of when it all happened, and we'll start with when you first

385
00:29:59.640 --> 00:30:04.039
saw the object over the lake,
what your impressions were, What did you

386
00:30:04.119 --> 00:30:15.000
what did you see? Well,
the first thing that we saw was this

387
00:30:15.480 --> 00:30:21.039
the bright The object itself was rising
out of the forest, and it was

388
00:30:21.119 --> 00:30:27.319
about two hundred maybe two hundred and
fifty yards away, And as soon as

389
00:30:27.519 --> 00:30:32.920
as soon as I saw it,
I knew it was something strange. It.

390
00:30:33.759 --> 00:30:37.960
For one thing, it didn't make
any sound at all, nothing,

391
00:30:37.640 --> 00:30:45.279
not a buzz, not a hum, absolutely soundless. And it was large.

392
00:30:45.359 --> 00:30:52.759
I mean this, I would I
would estimate that it was probably I

393
00:30:52.799 --> 00:31:00.440
remember thinking that it was big in
diameter as a tractor trailer truck is long

394
00:31:00.759 --> 00:31:03.480
whatever that is, sixty seventy feet
something like that. It wasn't small,

395
00:31:04.240 --> 00:31:10.160
it was fairly large, and I
remember thinking, well, how could something

396
00:31:10.279 --> 00:31:15.079
like that not make any sound?
So we watched it. The four of

397
00:31:15.119 --> 00:31:21.480
us were watching it, and it
was rising up out of the forest very

398
00:31:21.519 --> 00:31:27.119
slowly, until the whole thing was
in view, and then it just stopped

399
00:31:27.319 --> 00:31:33.640
and hovered above the trees, and
it still wasn't making any sound, and

400
00:31:36.400 --> 00:31:41.839
it was definitely not an airplane,
but we couldn't figure out what it was.

401
00:31:41.880 --> 00:31:47.640
At first, we thought maybe it
was a helicopter because it was hovering,

402
00:31:48.240 --> 00:31:51.599
but it didn't make any sound,
and it didn't have the kind of

403
00:31:51.680 --> 00:31:55.519
lights that a helicopter has. I
mean, we've all seen helicopters at night.

404
00:31:56.079 --> 00:31:59.920
We know what they look like and
sound like. This wasn't anything like

405
00:31:59.920 --> 00:32:02.799
that. So then we thought,
well, maybe it's a balloon. You

406
00:32:02.839 --> 00:32:07.599
know, somebody's fooling around with a
balloon, a rather big balloon, but

407
00:32:07.599 --> 00:32:13.759
it's possible. So we watched it
for a few more minutes and we noticed

408
00:32:13.799 --> 00:32:17.440
that it didn't move at all.
It was just stationary in that place.

409
00:32:19.319 --> 00:32:22.400
So we said, well, it
can't be a balloon because balloons kind of

410
00:32:22.440 --> 00:32:28.000
float around a little bit. They
can't just be stuck in a place,

411
00:32:29.119 --> 00:32:32.720
even if they're tied down. A
window blow it around. So we discounted

412
00:32:32.759 --> 00:32:42.440
the balloon and so we had no
balloon, no helicopter, no airplane.

413
00:32:42.720 --> 00:32:47.279
We couldn't figure out what it was. But and that's when we said well,

414
00:32:49.599 --> 00:32:52.640
maybe it's swamp gas. That's what
we thought it was swamp gas,

415
00:32:52.680 --> 00:32:57.880
because here we were in a swamp, but the thing itself wasn't in the

416
00:32:57.960 --> 00:33:02.079
swamp. It was over the tree, the trees away from the swamp.

417
00:33:04.039 --> 00:33:08.359
So but we said, well it's
it's probably swamp gas. So we watched

418
00:33:08.359 --> 00:33:15.079
it for a few more minutes and
then Charlie Folts said, well, you

419
00:33:15.079 --> 00:33:19.680
know, maybe it's a UFO.
And we were like, wow, you

420
00:33:19.720 --> 00:33:22.720
know, it does kind of look
like that thing we saw the other night

421
00:33:22.079 --> 00:33:29.480
from mud Brook camp site, and
so we said, oh, yeah,

422
00:33:29.519 --> 00:33:32.640
maybe it's a UFO. So Charlie
said, well, I'll signal it with

423
00:33:32.720 --> 00:33:39.799
his flashlight. He picked up a
flashlight and signaled an SOS. I think

424
00:33:39.839 --> 00:33:44.720
he said it was. I didn't
know what it was until afterwards because I

425
00:33:44.759 --> 00:33:50.319
don't know Morse code, but Charlie
does. And as soon as he did

426
00:33:50.359 --> 00:33:53.799
that, Alejandro, I mean,
the second he blinked that light at it,

427
00:33:53.799 --> 00:34:00.200
it just started moving towards us,
quietly, completely silent, but it

428
00:34:00.279 --> 00:34:07.920
was definitely seemed to be responding to
that signal. So the four of us

429
00:34:07.960 --> 00:34:12.159
are sitting in the canoe and we
said, oh, you know, we

430
00:34:12.239 --> 00:34:15.679
got a response from this thing,
Now what do we do? So we

431
00:34:15.840 --> 00:34:21.360
kind of spent a few seconds basically
saying, well, let's just sit here

432
00:34:21.400 --> 00:34:27.000
and wait and see what happens.
Just sit tight. So it was coming

433
00:34:27.079 --> 00:34:32.679
right towards the edge of the lake, and when it got over the water,

434
00:34:34.599 --> 00:34:38.440
we noticed that it was it had
this huge reflection in the water,

435
00:34:38.519 --> 00:34:43.320
which one would expect, right,
So we said, oh, you know,

436
00:34:44.159 --> 00:34:50.480
yeah, you know, this thing
is definitely really there because it's reflecting

437
00:34:50.519 --> 00:34:57.920
in the water. So at that
point it was maybe not even fifty yards

438
00:34:57.920 --> 00:35:05.079
away from a Salajandro, not even
and it was definitely coming down in altitude.

439
00:35:05.119 --> 00:35:14.159
It was headed right for us.
So all of a sudden, this

440
00:35:14.400 --> 00:35:19.880
beam came out of it, which
was very very strange because it wasn't a

441
00:35:20.000 --> 00:35:24.320
light. You know, like light
travels at what eight hundred and eight hundred

442
00:35:24.440 --> 00:35:30.840
thousand miles of a second, and
so when you turn on a light,

443
00:35:30.960 --> 00:35:36.639
it's instantaneous. This thing wasn't like
that at all, Alejandro. It was

444
00:35:36.719 --> 00:35:42.039
like this cone, like a cone
of light that came out of it,

445
00:35:42.079 --> 00:35:46.000
but it it like lowered. You
could see the bottom of this cone,

446
00:35:46.000 --> 00:35:50.840
and it just kind of lowered itself
down to the water. It was weird,

447
00:35:51.840 --> 00:35:55.480
and once we saw that, it
was like, uh oh, this

448
00:35:55.679 --> 00:36:02.880
is not normal. This thing is
deaf, not a familiar thing because light

449
00:36:04.039 --> 00:36:09.199
doesn't do that. So at that
point we said, okay, let's go

450
00:36:09.360 --> 00:36:15.320
to shore, because obviously we're dealing
with something here that we don't want to

451
00:36:15.320 --> 00:36:21.199
be out in the middle of a
swamp trying to deal with it because if

452
00:36:21.239 --> 00:36:24.440
we fall into the water, we're
probably drowned. It was full of submerged

453
00:36:24.480 --> 00:36:30.360
branches and tree stumps, that kind
of thing, you know, So we

454
00:36:30.360 --> 00:36:34.679
didn't want to wind up into water, and the canoe was overloaded with four

455
00:36:34.719 --> 00:36:37.159
guys in our fishing gear, so
it wasn't like, you know, we

456
00:36:37.199 --> 00:36:43.079
could really kind of tear out of
there and stuff. So we decided,

457
00:36:43.119 --> 00:36:47.840
okay, maybe we should go back
to shore, and if this thing keeps

458
00:36:47.920 --> 00:36:52.199
chasing us down, at least we're
on solid ground when it gets to us.

459
00:36:52.960 --> 00:36:59.119
So we started. We said,
okay, We turned the canoe back

460
00:36:59.159 --> 00:37:05.320
towards our camp and I could plainly
see the campfire was still burning really brightly

461
00:37:06.199 --> 00:37:10.280
because before we went out fishing,
we had built this huge fire, which

462
00:37:10.320 --> 00:37:16.239
we've come under fire for building such
a huge fire in a public campground and

463
00:37:16.239 --> 00:37:24.840
then leaving it to go fishing.
But you know whatever, we could see

464
00:37:24.880 --> 00:37:32.519
the campfire across the lake plainly.
It was gigantic. So we started paddling

465
00:37:32.760 --> 00:37:44.360
towards the campsite, and as we
were going heading towards shore, I kept

466
00:37:44.400 --> 00:37:50.840
looking over my shoulder to see where
this thing was. And it was really

467
00:37:50.880 --> 00:37:58.840
weird, Alejandro, like, this
thing was maybe twenty five thirty yards behind

468
00:37:58.920 --> 00:38:02.639
us, with this beam of light
coming across the water right towards us.

469
00:38:04.840 --> 00:38:10.159
And I turned around and I saw
that. I did a couple of paddles

470
00:38:10.199 --> 00:38:15.760
with my hand out the side of
the canoe. I looked back again,

471
00:38:15.960 --> 00:38:20.039
and this time it was like a
jump in a second. It was like

472
00:38:20.800 --> 00:38:23.519
all of a sudden, it was
right there behind us. It seemed to

473
00:38:23.559 --> 00:38:29.400
have just gotten there in a flash. And I could see that the beam

474
00:38:29.480 --> 00:38:32.480
of light was I mean, it
was gonna get us. There was no

475
00:38:32.599 --> 00:38:38.119
outrunning this thing. And in my
mind I said to myself, Yeah,

476
00:38:38.480 --> 00:38:42.960
we're not gonna make it. We're
not gonna make it the shore. This

477
00:38:43.039 --> 00:38:51.840
thing is right there. The next
thing I remembered was that the canoe was

478
00:38:52.320 --> 00:38:59.880
completely surrounded in this kind of tube
er. It wasn't like a tube,

479
00:39:00.000 --> 00:39:06.800
but it was like a hollow column
of this light that was coming out of

480
00:39:06.840 --> 00:39:10.760
this thing. But it was different
than that, Alejandro. It wasn't just

481
00:39:12.280 --> 00:39:17.960
light like a flashlight. It had
this weird quality to it that was it's

482
00:39:17.960 --> 00:39:23.679
hard to describe, but it was
very, very strange. It was definitely

483
00:39:24.159 --> 00:39:35.119
affecting the space around our canoe.
And the last thing I remembered was looking

484
00:39:35.239 --> 00:39:38.320
up straight up and this thing was
right above us. I mean, it

485
00:39:38.360 --> 00:39:47.239
was this huge, huge orangish yellow
ball of bright, bright light and this

486
00:39:47.719 --> 00:39:55.679
like bluish beam cone or something around
us. And then all of a sudden

487
00:39:55.719 --> 00:40:01.039
we were on the shore. The
next thing I remember was we got to

488
00:40:01.119 --> 00:40:09.559
the campsite, but we were I'll
tell you something, Alejandro. When we

489
00:40:09.559 --> 00:40:15.719
were paddling towards the canoe, everything
seemed, you know, like you would

490
00:40:15.800 --> 00:40:22.159
think, you know, we were
excited, we were adrenaline going and stuff.

491
00:40:22.800 --> 00:40:27.039
But when we got to the shore, we were all like half asleep

492
00:40:27.920 --> 00:40:34.000
and we just stood there staring at
this thing, which at that point was

493
00:40:34.119 --> 00:40:39.400
hovering over the water, and it
was sitting on this kind of weird beam.

494
00:40:40.559 --> 00:40:50.400
Can you see that. That's exactly
what it looked like. It was

495
00:40:50.519 --> 00:40:53.960
hovering over the water, and there
was this bluish beam underneath it like that,

496
00:40:55.360 --> 00:40:59.960
and it just hung there, completely
silent. You can imagine, Alohana,

497
00:41:00.280 --> 00:41:05.800
this thing's the size of a truck
and it's right there, completely silent.

498
00:41:06.800 --> 00:41:12.280
And I remember standing on the beach
just staring at this thing, and

499
00:41:12.320 --> 00:41:15.719
I was thinking, you know,
wow, this is I don't know what

500
00:41:15.840 --> 00:41:19.960
to think, except I couldn't take
my eyes off it. I wanted to

501
00:41:20.039 --> 00:41:23.400
see. I kept thinking, I
gotta see this thing so I can remember

502
00:41:23.440 --> 00:41:29.840
what it looks like. But every
time I looked at it directly, it

503
00:41:29.960 --> 00:41:36.239
was like somebody grabbed me by my
stomach and tried to lift me up by

504
00:41:36.280 --> 00:41:39.119
my stomach and it was like,
oh boy, you know, I don't

505
00:41:39.199 --> 00:41:44.920
like that. So I would look
away, but then I would think I

506
00:41:45.079 --> 00:41:47.239
have to look at this thing.
I have to see it, and so

507
00:41:47.280 --> 00:41:52.039
I'd look at it again and it
just hung there like that. And that

508
00:41:52.239 --> 00:41:54.960
was I don't even remember what the
other guys were doing at that time.

509
00:41:55.000 --> 00:42:00.639
It was as if, you know, I was alone or something. And

510
00:42:01.639 --> 00:42:07.360
it just hung there for several minutes, at least, three or four minutes

511
00:42:07.400 --> 00:42:14.280
at least, and then the beam
of light that was underneath. It just

512
00:42:14.400 --> 00:42:17.199
kind of rose up into it the
same way it came out. It just

513
00:42:17.280 --> 00:42:23.039
kind of like an elevator or something
up into it. And then it started

514
00:42:23.119 --> 00:42:30.679
moving away slowly back across the lake, again not making a sound, nothing,

515
00:42:30.880 --> 00:42:37.719
And when it got towards the other
shore of the lake, it started

516
00:42:37.840 --> 00:42:45.360
rising up into the air. And
it was weird because it looked like like

517
00:42:45.440 --> 00:42:50.360
it like it would blink out,
like it was there, and all of

518
00:42:50.400 --> 00:42:53.599
a sudden there was nothing, and
it was like, WHOA, what was

519
00:42:53.639 --> 00:42:59.960
that? And then it would reappear, but further up in a higher elevation,

520
00:43:00.760 --> 00:43:05.320
so it seemed to be making these
weird jumps up into the sky.

521
00:43:06.599 --> 00:43:09.639
And oh, the other detail that
I almost forgot was while it was doing

522
00:43:09.679 --> 00:43:17.519
that, that beam that was coming
down from it was now pointing up at

523
00:43:17.559 --> 00:43:22.800
an angle, and it seemed to
be following that like it would shoot this

524
00:43:22.920 --> 00:43:28.679
beam out and then all of a
sudden it would just disappear but reappear higher.

525
00:43:29.519 --> 00:43:36.800
And it did that two or three
times until it was way way it

526
00:43:36.880 --> 00:43:40.960
was really high, and then it
just shot into the stars. No sound,

527
00:43:43.039 --> 00:43:49.280
no va portrayal, no sonic boom, nothing, But I'll tell you

528
00:43:49.320 --> 00:43:54.840
Alejandro that thing was so fast.
It was like that fast it went from

529
00:43:54.960 --> 00:44:01.039
where we were watching it to the
stars and was gone, and the four

530
00:44:01.079 --> 00:44:08.159
of us were just left there standing
there in shock, basically. And it

531
00:44:08.280 --> 00:44:15.159
was weird because you would think that
four artists would be up all night discussing

532
00:44:15.199 --> 00:44:19.800
this, you know, drawing pictures
of it, whatever, but we didn't

533
00:44:19.800 --> 00:44:23.440
do that at all. I think
we were in shock because all we did

534
00:44:23.679 --> 00:44:30.360
was walk back silently to the picnic
table that was at the campsite and we

535
00:44:30.400 --> 00:44:36.920
sat down and I recalled just saying, boy, I feel really tired.

536
00:44:37.199 --> 00:44:43.199
I got to go to sleep.
And Jim was sitting next to me and

537
00:44:43.239 --> 00:44:45.960
he said the same thing. He
was like, man, I am exhausted.

538
00:44:46.079 --> 00:44:50.880
But we didn't really talk about the
thing. It was weird. You

539
00:44:50.920 --> 00:44:53.639
think that would be obviously the main
topic of discussion. We were just,

540
00:44:54.400 --> 00:44:58.119
oh, man, I'm really tired. I got to go to sleep.

541
00:44:58.800 --> 00:45:02.800
Well. Charlie wandered over to where
the campfire was and he was poking at

542
00:45:02.800 --> 00:45:06.920
it with a stick and he went, hey, guys, the fire's out.

543
00:45:06.960 --> 00:45:08.599
Should we build another fire? And
we were like, nah, the

544
00:45:08.719 --> 00:45:14.719
heck with it, going to sleep
anyway, And we didn't even think not

545
00:45:14.920 --> 00:45:17.880
one of us sat back and said, holy mackerel, how'd the fire go

546
00:45:19.000 --> 00:45:24.000
out so fast? I mean,
we just followed it three minutes ago.

547
00:45:24.119 --> 00:45:29.079
We were out in the canoe.
There's the thing, there's the fire.

548
00:45:29.119 --> 00:45:32.760
It's huge. It only took us. It didn't take us more than five

549
00:45:32.880 --> 00:45:38.320
or ten minutes. It seemed to
get back to shore. But none of

550
00:45:38.400 --> 00:45:42.840
us connected, you know, well, what happened to the big fire we

551
00:45:43.000 --> 00:45:46.639
just saw five minutes ago. It
didn't make sense, but we didn't think

552
00:45:46.639 --> 00:45:51.880
about it until the next day.
Actually, we talked about that, but

553
00:45:52.039 --> 00:45:55.480
that was another weird thing. And
the four of us were just spent.

554
00:45:55.639 --> 00:46:00.199
I mean, it was like we
didn't stay up and discuss it. It

555
00:46:00.159 --> 00:46:06.599
nothing. We just like, in
fact, I fell asleep on the on

556
00:46:06.719 --> 00:46:09.119
the uh, leaning on the top
of the table the picnic. I didn't

557
00:46:09.119 --> 00:46:14.360
even make it to my sleeping bag. I just like put my head down

558
00:46:14.440 --> 00:46:15.880
and woke up. The next morning, it was like, what the heck?

559
00:46:16.760 --> 00:46:22.119
And then the next morning we didn't
even talk about it. Really,

560
00:46:22.920 --> 00:46:25.719
we didn't say anything. We just
said, oh, okay, uh,

561
00:46:27.079 --> 00:46:30.320
it's time to leave. I don't
even remember much of it, and we

562
00:46:30.360 --> 00:46:37.599
all got in the canoe and paddled
away in the canoe, and then I

563
00:46:37.599 --> 00:46:45.079
don't know how long afterwards, we
found ourselves hung up on some branches at

564
00:46:45.079 --> 00:46:49.000
the on the shore of the lake. And it was that kind of like

565
00:46:49.119 --> 00:46:51.159
woke us up. We were like, wait a second, you know,

566
00:46:51.239 --> 00:46:53.280
how do we get here? What's
going on? What are we doing in

567
00:46:53.320 --> 00:46:59.119
the canoe? And where's our stuff? And so we're like, well,

568
00:47:00.320 --> 00:47:06.400
okay, we must have left the
canoe back at the other campsite. But

569
00:47:06.519 --> 00:47:08.480
none of us discussed, well,
why would we do that. You know,

570
00:47:08.559 --> 00:47:10.920
it was like, oh, okay, well, I guess we'll have

571
00:47:10.960 --> 00:47:20.440
to go back and get the stuff. So yeah, yeah, right,

572
00:47:20.760 --> 00:47:22.960
we just kind of took off from
the campsite. You know, when I

573
00:47:23.000 --> 00:47:30.039
look back at the time, we
weren't even thinking about anything really obviously,

574
00:47:30.159 --> 00:47:34.360
when I look back at it,
we were in shocked, deep shot or

575
00:47:34.400 --> 00:47:36.719
something. I don't know. I
mean, that's the only way I can

576
00:47:36.800 --> 00:47:42.320
describe it. But once we came
back to our senses, that's when we

577
00:47:42.400 --> 00:47:45.760
started. That's when I think.
So. In fact, it was at

578
00:47:45.800 --> 00:47:50.000
that moment when we were hung up
in the bushes in the canoe where I

579
00:47:50.039 --> 00:47:53.960
think Jim said, hey, do
you guys remember seeing that thing last night,

580
00:47:54.800 --> 00:48:00.480
we were like, oh, yeah, right, that thing that you

581
00:48:00.519 --> 00:48:04.559
know, yeah, I remember that. And that's then we started talking about

582
00:48:04.559 --> 00:48:07.440
it, like, wow, that
was a UFO or something, wasn't it,

583
00:48:07.480 --> 00:48:15.119
you know, And and so that
was when we really started to remember

584
00:48:16.360 --> 00:48:20.920
the thing. But we didn't remember
any abduction or anything. We just remembered

585
00:48:21.760 --> 00:48:25.880
being chased across the lake by this
thing and then it went away, you

586
00:48:25.880 --> 00:48:29.800
know, it was there for a
few minutes, hovering, then it went

587
00:48:29.840 --> 00:48:34.199
away. We didn't think we were
abducted at all, but none of us,

588
00:48:34.880 --> 00:48:39.320
for some reason, we blocked out
the whole fire thing. We didn't

589
00:48:39.320 --> 00:48:44.000
even it was like, you know, it was so obvious, but we

590
00:48:44.039 --> 00:48:52.920
didn't even discuss it. So later
then you began having nightmares, you and

591
00:48:52.960 --> 00:48:55.599
your brother. Yeah, so about
when did that happen and what do you

592
00:48:55.679 --> 00:49:02.400
remember? Well, that happened about
the end of the nineteen eighties. It

593
00:49:02.480 --> 00:49:09.239
was about eighty seven, I think
eighty six or eighty seven. I started

594
00:49:09.280 --> 00:49:16.199
having these horrible nightmares and they were
really really intense, you know, like

595
00:49:16.239 --> 00:49:20.000
most people have nightmares or something.
They wake up they go, oh,

596
00:49:20.039 --> 00:49:22.800
wow, that was an intense nightmare, you know, But then you go

597
00:49:22.840 --> 00:49:27.559
on with your day, don't even
remember it after you know, a couple

598
00:49:27.599 --> 00:49:31.719
hours at work. But this dream
was like, wow, you know,

599
00:49:31.920 --> 00:49:38.119
this is really heavy. It was
like just totally freaking me out. And

600
00:49:38.199 --> 00:49:44.360
I told Mary about it, but
she was the only one I would discuss

601
00:49:44.440 --> 00:49:47.159
it with at the time because I
thought it was just bad dreams. But

602
00:49:47.199 --> 00:49:53.760
I kept, yeah, Mary's my
wife. And the problem was is that

603
00:49:53.800 --> 00:50:00.480
they kept recurring over and over again, and it was the same in tense

604
00:50:01.079 --> 00:50:09.159
dream of these non human entities doing
things to me, and I could see

605
00:50:09.199 --> 00:50:15.400
their faces and stuff, and it
was just totally freaking me out. So,

606
00:50:15.719 --> 00:50:17.880
you know, I was dealing with
it. I was going to work

607
00:50:17.920 --> 00:50:21.159
and stuff like that, and I
just figured, oh, boy, you

608
00:50:21.159 --> 00:50:25.360
know, I don't know what this
is all about. And then I was

609
00:50:25.400 --> 00:50:31.159
talking to Jim and he was he
told me he was having problems with his

610
00:50:31.960 --> 00:50:37.719
epilepsy and I was asking him,
you know, how he was doing and

611
00:50:37.760 --> 00:50:40.559
stuff, because we're real close,
and he said, well, you know,

612
00:50:43.119 --> 00:50:46.280
I'm not doing good because I can't
sleep. And so I was like,

613
00:50:46.360 --> 00:50:50.960
well, you know, I mean
does epilepsy do that? And he

614
00:50:51.000 --> 00:50:54.119
said, well, I don't know, but I've been having these horrible nightmares,

615
00:50:54.760 --> 00:50:58.199
and I was like, really,
what kind of nightmares? And he

616
00:50:58.360 --> 00:51:04.119
was describing the exact same thing thing
that I was having nightmayers about. And

617
00:51:04.280 --> 00:51:10.880
so in the Jim even was was
so freaked out by these nightmayers that he

618
00:51:12.039 --> 00:51:16.760
was locking pad locking his room at
night to keep them out of his room

619
00:51:17.440 --> 00:51:22.800
because he thought these dreams were more
than dreams. And so that's how freaked

620
00:51:22.840 --> 00:51:25.920
out Jim was. He was actually
pad locking his room at night. Of

621
00:51:25.920 --> 00:51:32.039
course didn't stop him. Well,
the dreams that we were both having,

622
00:51:32.199 --> 00:51:43.880
it turned out, were lying on
our backs and these non human entities hovering

623
00:51:43.920 --> 00:51:52.960
around with the bright lights behind them
and putting their faces like right in your

624
00:51:53.320 --> 00:51:59.760
right in my face, like and
you know, like this far away and

625
00:51:59.840 --> 00:52:07.960
I could, you know, just
looking at these black, void, voidless

626
00:52:08.519 --> 00:52:16.320
eyes or something. And it was
just terrifying, totally terrifying. And in

627
00:52:16.360 --> 00:52:24.840
my dreams and Jim's both are dreams, we were seeing these non human entities

628
00:52:27.840 --> 00:52:31.000
hovering over each other, you know, like I was watching him hovering over

629
00:52:31.159 --> 00:52:37.679
Jim, he was watching him hovering
over me, and it was just too

630
00:52:37.719 --> 00:52:39.280
bizarre, you know. Jim and
I were like, Jesus, you know

631
00:52:39.400 --> 00:52:45.519
what the heck is this all about? And uh, we didn't even think.

632
00:52:45.519 --> 00:52:47.480
I didn't even think about the Alligash. I didn't think there was any

633
00:52:47.480 --> 00:52:53.599
connection because in my mind I didn't
remember being abducted or anything on the Alley

634
00:52:53.679 --> 00:53:00.360
Gash, although there was some you
know, missing time obviously, but I

635
00:53:00.079 --> 00:53:07.559
wasn't thinking that, you know,
this is alien stuff. And and then

636
00:53:07.719 --> 00:53:13.760
Jim called me up one time and
said, hey, have you ever heard

637
00:53:13.800 --> 00:53:19.920
of a guy named Streiber? And
I said no, no, I never

638
00:53:20.000 --> 00:53:23.079
have. Why And he said,
well, somebody just gave me a book

639
00:53:23.119 --> 00:53:30.239
about this guy's Striiber, who wrote
about alien abductions. And he said,

640
00:53:30.280 --> 00:53:34.679
you know it really rings a bell
jack it really, you know, I

641
00:53:34.719 --> 00:53:37.760
think there's something to this and it
might be related to the Alley Gash.

642
00:53:38.880 --> 00:53:44.840
So I was like, well,
you know that's neither here nor there.

643
00:53:44.880 --> 00:53:47.440
I hadn't read the book, so
I was like, well, I don't

644
00:53:47.480 --> 00:53:52.880
know, I don't know about that, and and that was pretty much it.

645
00:53:53.000 --> 00:53:55.639
You know, we didn't really go
out of our I didn't go out

646
00:53:55.639 --> 00:54:01.519
of my way to talk to an
investigator or anything like that. I just

647
00:54:01.639 --> 00:54:07.760
kind of dealt with it. And
then Jim called one day and said,

648
00:54:07.639 --> 00:54:13.800
hey, I ran into this guy
named Ray Fowler, who is a UFO

649
00:54:13.960 --> 00:54:19.360
investigator, and I met him at
at a lecture he was giving and I

650
00:54:19.440 --> 00:54:22.719
told him the story of the allegash, and he seems really interested in investigating

651
00:54:22.760 --> 00:54:30.599
that. But you're going to have
to, you know, reveal your soul

652
00:54:30.760 --> 00:54:36.119
in the whole nine yards, so
you know, think it over. And

653
00:54:36.199 --> 00:54:42.559
so I discussed it with my wife
Mary, and we said, well,

654
00:54:42.840 --> 00:54:46.360
you know, this is obviously bothering
me a lot, so I want to

655
00:54:46.360 --> 00:54:49.800
get to the bottom of it.
I want to see if it really has

656
00:54:49.840 --> 00:54:57.079
anything to do with the alligash.
And so we agreed to do the investigation

657
00:54:58.280 --> 00:55:01.400
with Ray Fowler. And so he
sent us these forms. You know,

658
00:55:01.440 --> 00:55:12.239
it was an official move on form
where you could report a UFO sighting or

659
00:55:12.360 --> 00:55:15.880
encounter or whatever. And we filled
those out with several pages, a lot

660
00:55:15.880 --> 00:55:23.159
of detailed descriptions, stuff like that, you know. And about two weeks

661
00:55:23.239 --> 00:55:29.119
later, I got a phone call
from Ray Fower saying that he read my

662
00:55:29.239 --> 00:55:36.519
account on the report form and he
thought it was an interesting case and he

663
00:55:36.559 --> 00:55:42.079
wanted to investigate it further if it
was okay with me. And I said,

664
00:55:42.079 --> 00:55:45.239
well, yeah, I think it's
okay. I really want to get

665
00:55:45.280 --> 00:55:49.039
to the bottom of this. And
you know, I mean, obviously we

666
00:55:49.159 --> 00:55:53.960
saw the thing that wasn't even in
question, but what happened between that beam

667
00:55:54.119 --> 00:56:00.960
coming to the canoe and getting to
shore was, oh, there was no

668
00:56:00.079 --> 00:56:07.719
explanation. There was a blank space, and these nightmares. I was hoping

669
00:56:07.760 --> 00:56:15.440
that maybe they would go away.
So that's when Ray started his official investigation

670
00:56:16.320 --> 00:56:30.400
and decided that he would use or
try deep hypnosis and what's that called relaxation,

671
00:56:31.400 --> 00:56:38.360
Yes, regression hypnosis and deep relaxation. And so we agreed to do

672
00:56:38.440 --> 00:56:43.519
that and he did us one by
one. I believe he did Jim first,

673
00:56:44.679 --> 00:56:49.039
and then he did me, and
then he did Charlie Foltz, and

674
00:56:49.079 --> 00:56:53.800
then he did Chuck Rack last.
And in the end it wound up that

675
00:56:53.880 --> 00:56:59.840
I think he did me three times. I had to go back two more

676
00:57:00.119 --> 00:57:07.960
times for to finish up some loose
ends, and he did the other guys.

677
00:57:07.000 --> 00:57:13.480
I think he did Jim once,
Charlie once, and he did Chuck

678
00:57:13.599 --> 00:57:21.679
Rack twice. But it was amazing, I'll tell you, Alejandro. You

679
00:57:21.719 --> 00:57:27.960
know these investigators, as you well
know, and being one, they take

680
00:57:28.000 --> 00:57:31.239
a lot of guff from people you
know, and they're you know, they

681
00:57:31.280 --> 00:57:37.199
want people to believe that these investigators
are a little wacky or they're unprofessional,

682
00:57:37.360 --> 00:57:40.679
or you know. But Ray wasn't
like that at all, and neither was

683
00:57:40.719 --> 00:57:49.159
Tony. They were two of the
most level headed, professional people I've ever

684
00:57:49.239 --> 00:57:53.880
run into. There's no way that
they were joking around or anything. I

685
00:57:53.880 --> 00:58:00.760
mean, these guys were serious,
serious stuff, and so I think that

686
00:58:00.840 --> 00:58:10.119
really helped, because having confidence in
the person who's performing the hypnosis session and

687
00:58:10.320 --> 00:58:19.360
having confidence in Ray Fowler as being
a normal, great guy allows you to

688
00:58:19.760 --> 00:58:22.960
open up because you trust them.
I mean I trusted these guys. I

689
00:58:23.000 --> 00:58:28.199
still do. In fact, I
would trust Ray Fowler with my life.

690
00:58:28.199 --> 00:58:30.840
I told him that one time.
He called me up and asked if I

691
00:58:30.880 --> 00:58:35.920
could send them copies of some of
the artwork that we did for him for

692
00:58:36.000 --> 00:58:42.639
this class he was teaching. And
I said, Ray, I'll just send

693
00:58:42.639 --> 00:58:45.320
the originals to you and you can
send them back to me when you're done.

694
00:58:45.480 --> 00:58:49.639
And he said, well, jeez, Jack, I don't expect you

695
00:58:49.679 --> 00:58:52.199
to send your original art work.
I mean, what if something happens to

696
00:58:52.239 --> 00:58:57.639
it. And I said, Ray, I would trust you with my life.

697
00:58:58.119 --> 00:59:01.360
My artwork is nothing. Don't worry
about it. I'll send it to

698
00:59:01.440 --> 00:59:06.519
you, you know, use it
for your classes when you're done back.

699
00:59:06.760 --> 00:59:12.679
But that's true. I mean Ray
Fowler and Tony to me. My impression

700
00:59:12.920 --> 00:59:22.840
was that I could trust him with
my life, and so oh. I

701
00:59:22.920 --> 00:59:30.400
remembered a lot in the regression.
I remembered that when the beam hit the

702
00:59:30.440 --> 00:59:36.800
canoe and I was looking up at
it, that's when they got us somehow.

703
00:59:36.840 --> 00:59:40.920
That light thing was some type of
transport beam or I don't know what

704
00:59:40.960 --> 00:59:47.960
you'd call it. But the next
thing I remembered was under hypnosis, was

705
00:59:49.079 --> 00:59:54.239
lying on my back, only being
able to move my eyes. I was

706
00:59:54.320 --> 01:00:01.039
like paralyzed, but I could move
my eyes, and I recall looking towards

707
01:00:01.119 --> 01:00:09.519
my left and just out of the
periphal periphery of my vision, I could

708
01:00:09.960 --> 01:00:15.079
tell that the other three guys were
in this room with me, but they

709
01:00:15.119 --> 01:00:22.079
were like immobile. They were just
sitting on this like bench or something.

710
01:00:22.119 --> 01:00:27.599
It was something that came out of
this wall or something, and that's all

711
01:00:27.679 --> 01:00:30.639
I could see. But I knew
they were there, and I was thinking,

712
01:00:30.840 --> 01:00:37.320
you know, there's something really wrong
here, and why aren't those guys

713
01:00:37.400 --> 01:00:40.719
helping me? What is with these
guys? They're just sitting there doing nothing,

714
01:00:40.760 --> 01:00:46.599
and I'm over here paralyzed what is
going on? And I'm trying to

715
01:00:46.639 --> 01:00:51.159
figure out the space I was in, but it was impossible. It was

716
01:00:52.000 --> 01:00:58.760
so bright. It was this bright, bright space that I couldn't even see

717
01:00:58.800 --> 01:01:01.800
the walls. It was like a
fog, but it wasn't fog. It

718
01:01:01.880 --> 01:01:08.079
was from these bright, bright lights. And then the next thing I noticed

719
01:01:09.159 --> 01:01:19.440
were like these kind of hazy silhouette
kind of things coming out of this haze

720
01:01:20.119 --> 01:01:23.599
towards me. And there were three
of them. There was one on each

721
01:01:23.679 --> 01:01:30.760
side and one at my feet.
And when they got close to me,

722
01:01:30.239 --> 01:01:36.280
then I could see what was going
on and they weren't human. They were

723
01:01:36.320 --> 01:01:44.880
obviously inhuman somethings and they were just
standing there looking at me, and I

724
01:01:45.000 --> 01:01:47.320
was freaking out. I mean,
I was wishing I could get up and

725
01:01:47.480 --> 01:01:54.400
run, but I couldn't move.
So I knew that once I saw them.

726
01:01:54.880 --> 01:01:59.599
The next thing was in like they're
gonna cut me like a trout.

727
01:01:59.679 --> 01:02:02.920
I don't know who these guys are
what they are, but I don't like

728
01:02:04.000 --> 01:02:07.320
it, and I don't trust them, and they're gonna gut me like a

729
01:02:07.360 --> 01:02:12.039
trout. I'm done, And so
you can imagine that kind of fear,

730
01:02:12.119 --> 01:02:15.000
you know. I mean, I'm
fearing for my life here and these three

731
01:02:15.239 --> 01:02:22.159
inhuman things they're standing there looking at
me, and then one of the one

732
01:02:22.159 --> 01:02:28.880
on my left side takes me by
my wrist. And they had these really

733
01:02:28.920 --> 01:02:36.400
weird hands that had only four digits, and their hands had like a like

734
01:02:36.440 --> 01:02:42.280
a crease down the middle in the
back so that when they can have like

735
01:02:42.320 --> 01:02:45.920
their fingers, you know, like
that or like that, and then this

736
01:02:46.000 --> 01:02:52.159
thing would like move and they could
make their fingers do this, and it

737
01:02:52.320 --> 01:03:01.000
seemed I remember recalling how dexterous they
were and looking at these four digit hands,

738
01:03:01.039 --> 01:03:05.199
if that's what you want to call
them, and I was thinking,

739
01:03:05.239 --> 01:03:07.800
oh, my gosh, you know, that's amazing. How can they be

740
01:03:07.880 --> 01:03:20.360
so dexterous without a thumb? So
excuse me, So I recalled that part

741
01:03:20.360 --> 01:03:24.920
of it. I was really focused
on their hands because obviously I was worried

742
01:03:24.920 --> 01:03:30.599
about what they were going to do
with them. And the other thing that

743
01:03:30.639 --> 01:03:37.320
I noticed that I was really focused
on was their heads and their eyes especially.

744
01:03:37.920 --> 01:03:45.280
They had these amazing huge kind of
black black eyes or something. They

745
01:03:45.280 --> 01:03:49.599
weren't eyes like ours. They were
I don't know, like a lens,

746
01:03:50.480 --> 01:03:53.000
you know, Alejandro, When I
think about it, I think they were

747
01:03:53.039 --> 01:04:00.840
wearing something, some kind of protective
something, you know, because it didn't

748
01:04:00.880 --> 01:04:05.800
look like flesh or organic stuff.
It looked, you know, like glass

749
01:04:05.920 --> 01:04:13.000
or plastic or something. But they
were huge, and there was no nose

750
01:04:13.440 --> 01:04:17.679
and no mouth, and they had
this like pointy kind of chin. And

751
01:04:17.760 --> 01:04:23.840
my impression was that there was this
little slit down here at the bottom,

752
01:04:24.239 --> 01:04:27.840
but it didn't look like a mouth
or anything. It was just tiny.

753
01:04:27.880 --> 01:04:30.199
So I don't know what that was
all about, but that was one of

754
01:04:30.239 --> 01:04:38.400
the things I noticed. And they
had no ears and no hair. They

755
01:04:38.440 --> 01:04:45.559
were kind of like this pale,
whitish. I wouldn't call them gray,

756
01:04:45.840 --> 01:04:48.960
but they weren't, you know,
they didn't have blood or something. They

757
01:04:49.039 --> 01:04:56.000
weren't, you know, like we
are. And the other thing I remembered

758
01:04:57.119 --> 01:05:02.119
was watching their elbows, like this
part when they would move their arms in

759
01:05:02.159 --> 01:05:06.039
their hands, and I thought,
for the things you think of. I

760
01:05:06.119 --> 01:05:12.519
don't know why, but I remember
thinking, Okay, okay, you know,

761
01:05:12.599 --> 01:05:15.280
I don't know what's going on with
these guys, but if they're wearing

762
01:05:15.320 --> 01:05:20.239
a suit or something, it's going
to have creases when they move. Maybe

763
01:05:20.320 --> 01:05:24.920
you know like ours do when we
move, And so for some reason,

764
01:05:24.960 --> 01:05:29.000
I focused on that part of their
arms and I kept looking at it,

765
01:05:29.079 --> 01:05:32.599
waiting for wrinkles or something to happen, but there weren't any. And I

766
01:05:32.639 --> 01:05:35.400
remember thinking, well, this just
doesn't make sense. I mean, they're

767
01:05:35.440 --> 01:05:39.920
either wearing something or they're not.
How could they? You know? It

768
01:05:39.960 --> 01:05:46.559
was weird. It was very difficult
to really understand what the heck I was

769
01:05:46.599 --> 01:05:51.559
looking at. And the other thing
is is I never saw their feet.

770
01:05:53.400 --> 01:05:56.639
I never saw their feet for some
reason. If I did, I don't

771
01:05:56.679 --> 01:06:01.639
remember what their feet were like or
how many they But ha ha tue,

772
01:06:04.719 --> 01:06:14.000
uh huh, that's right, that's
right. We promised Ray that because he

773
01:06:14.119 --> 01:06:19.079
said before we went into the hypnotic
regressions, he said, look, I

774
01:06:19.079 --> 01:06:24.360
don't want to waste my time because
it's it's expensive and it's time consuming.

775
01:06:25.039 --> 01:06:28.320
And if you guys are going to
talk to each other after you know the

776
01:06:28.440 --> 01:06:31.119
hip, it's not gonna, it's
not gonna. It's useless to do that

777
01:06:31.280 --> 01:06:39.639
why bother. So you have to
promise me and agree not to discuss your

778
01:06:39.800 --> 01:06:45.320
sessions until I've done all of you
guys, and I get you all together

779
01:06:45.400 --> 01:06:48.239
at the end, and then we
discuss what each other said and we said,

780
01:06:48.719 --> 01:06:58.280
Okay, I mean we understand that, except uh, I wasn't really

781
01:06:58.360 --> 01:07:02.079
that astounded. I wasn't that astounded. I mean, it was all pretty

782
01:07:02.159 --> 01:07:06.559
much the same, you know,
except uh, you know, people focus

783
01:07:06.639 --> 01:07:13.480
on different things, you know,
and uh, but it was it wasn't

784
01:07:13.599 --> 01:07:15.840
like, oh, really, you
know, because we were all there.

785
01:07:15.880 --> 01:07:19.559
We knew what happened. We just
didn't know that part of it. But

786
01:07:19.639 --> 01:07:29.480
it didn't surprise us because it just
you know, it was definitely uh answering

787
01:07:29.599 --> 01:07:35.480
some questions, especially about the missing
time. So I mean at first,

788
01:07:36.079 --> 01:07:40.719
I mean I have letters I've written. I wrote to Ray afterwards, saying,

789
01:07:40.760 --> 01:07:44.119
you know, Jesus Ray, you
know, I can't believe this.

790
01:07:44.239 --> 01:07:47.000
It's it's hard for me to believe. If I hadn't been there myself in

791
01:07:47.079 --> 01:07:51.000
the canoe and someone told me the
story, I'd find it hard to believe.

792
01:07:51.079 --> 01:07:56.199
But I I was there, I
know it happened, but I don't

793
01:07:56.239 --> 01:07:59.199
know what to think about it yet. You know, this is this is

794
01:07:59.599 --> 01:08:06.440
stuff comes out of crazy people,
not normal people. And his reaction was,

795
01:08:06.840 --> 01:08:15.599
Jack, I totally understand. It's
hard to accept these things, but

796
01:08:15.680 --> 01:08:18.560
you have to because you're going to
go on with the rest of your life,

797
01:08:18.600 --> 01:08:25.439
you've got to deal with it.
But he said, don't. Don't

798
01:08:25.479 --> 01:08:30.199
what's the word obsess, which he
said, if you start obsessing on this

799
01:08:30.239 --> 01:08:34.479
stuff, it'll make it go crazy. And so I tried not to do

800
01:08:34.520 --> 01:08:40.680
that. But you can't not obsess
on it. I found. It's something

801
01:08:40.680 --> 01:08:45.600
that you know, it's on my
mind twenty four to seven. But what

802
01:08:45.760 --> 01:08:51.359
I decided was that instead of having
it tear me down and you know,

803
01:08:51.880 --> 01:08:58.399
ruin my psyche and stuff, I
decided to deal with it creatively. And

804
01:08:58.479 --> 01:09:01.439
so I tried to do that.
And one of the things that really helps

805
01:09:02.399 --> 01:09:10.159
was to meet other people that had
a similar experience and talk to them,

806
01:09:11.079 --> 01:09:16.520
and that really helped finding out that
in fact, at the time, I

807
01:09:16.600 --> 01:09:20.479
thought we were the only ones,
you know, who were abducted by aliens

808
01:09:20.560 --> 01:09:25.720
or something. I had no idea
there were other people out there like that.

809
01:09:26.840 --> 01:09:31.119
Except for one thing. I remember. Back in the nineteen sixties,

810
01:09:31.159 --> 01:09:40.880
a book came out about that couple
in New Hampshire, Benny and Barney Hill,

811
01:09:41.000 --> 01:09:45.680
right, And I remember seeing that
book laying around somewhere, and I

812
01:09:45.760 --> 01:09:49.000
picked it up and started reading the
introduction and I never got past that.

813
01:09:49.199 --> 01:09:53.399
I remember thinking, well, this
is horseshit or something. I don't know,

814
01:09:54.159 --> 01:09:58.119
not all about the abduct the aliens
abducting people and stuff, and so

815
01:09:58.199 --> 01:10:08.600
I never read it until after the
hypnotic regression and stuff. And I was

816
01:10:08.680 --> 01:10:17.239
working in a little shop up in
Mount Snow where I was printing T shirts

817
01:10:17.279 --> 01:10:24.239
for the tourists, and Chuck Rat
came in the shop one day. I

818
01:10:24.279 --> 01:10:30.840
hadn't seen him in a long time, since since the regressions and or wait

819
01:10:30.840 --> 01:10:33.840
a second, was that before?
I think it was after he came in

820
01:10:33.920 --> 01:10:40.039
with a copy of Striber's book and
said, hey, this is this is

821
01:10:40.119 --> 01:10:42.239
Have you read this? And I
was like, no, I haven't read

822
01:10:42.279 --> 01:10:46.960
it. And it was kind of
weird to find out that there are other

823
01:10:47.000 --> 01:10:51.279
people like us. That was a
real shock. One of the things Chuck

824
01:10:51.399 --> 01:10:55.840
describes is when he spent the night
at your house and he had a strange

825
01:10:55.880 --> 01:11:00.079
experience and then he told you about
it, and you said you had a

826
01:11:00.199 --> 01:11:03.960
similar experience, So could you explain
that? Yeah, Well, you know,

827
01:11:04.159 --> 01:11:08.399
Charlie Faults is a real good friend
of ours. He's like a brother,

828
01:11:09.399 --> 01:11:12.800
and he comes up every now and
then spends time. He helped Mary

829
01:11:12.800 --> 01:11:16.960
and I build our house when we
were building it originally. And he comes

830
01:11:17.039 --> 01:11:20.840
up not so much now because he
doesn't drive much because of his heart and

831
01:11:20.880 --> 01:11:26.239
stuff, But back then he was
a frequent visitor. He would come up

832
01:11:26.279 --> 01:11:30.000
and help Mary and I do certain
things. And one of the times he

833
01:11:30.159 --> 01:11:35.239
was up was in I think it
was an early winter because it was real

834
01:11:35.399 --> 01:11:44.159
cold. I remember we had a
real, real heavy frost. And I

835
01:11:44.239 --> 01:11:49.479
woke up one morning and I said, Mary, there's something wrong with my

836
01:11:49.640 --> 01:11:53.720
feet. There's something wrong with him. And she was like what, And

837
01:11:53.760 --> 01:11:59.119
I showed her and my feet looked
like they just the bottoms, just the

838
01:11:59.119 --> 01:12:04.720
bottoms of my feet. All the
skin was like burned or not crispy burned,

839
01:12:04.720 --> 01:12:10.439
but like frozen, and it was
all chafy and you know, coming

840
01:12:10.520 --> 01:12:14.079
off and stuff. And I said
to Mary, you all, this doesn't

841
01:12:14.119 --> 01:12:18.079
look like athleteses feet or anything.
It's not in my toes or this is

842
01:12:18.159 --> 01:12:23.640
weird. I don't know what this
is. And so we came down for

843
01:12:23.720 --> 01:12:27.760
breakfast side and mentioned it. You
know, we just forgot about it,

844
01:12:27.800 --> 01:12:32.960
basically, and Charlie came down for
breakfast that morning, and when he got

845
01:12:32.960 --> 01:12:41.720
to the table, he was obviously
not himself. I mean, he seemed

846
01:12:41.760 --> 01:12:45.279
like he was in some kind of
a funk, like his mind was somewhere

847
01:12:45.319 --> 01:12:49.600
else. And Mary and I both
noticed it immediately. He said, Charlie,

848
01:12:49.640 --> 01:12:51.920
what the heck's wrong with you today? Would you have a bad night?

849
01:12:54.000 --> 01:13:00.119
And he said, you know,
I had the most terrifying dream last

850
01:13:00.199 --> 01:13:02.239
night. And we were like,
oh, really, what was it?

851
01:13:02.800 --> 01:13:09.000
And he told us about this dream
that because he was sleeping downstairs on a

852
01:13:09.800 --> 01:13:14.760
mattress, and he said, I
had this dream that there was this bright

853
01:13:14.840 --> 01:13:23.560
light outside your door and that there
were aliens or something came into the house

854
01:13:24.479 --> 01:13:30.239
and I went right through the door
and was out in the snow. And

855
01:13:31.399 --> 01:13:36.359
I was like, really, see
that's really intense, Charlie, Uh,

856
01:13:36.640 --> 01:13:39.880
what do you think? And he
goes, I don't know, but check

857
01:13:39.920 --> 01:13:44.000
out my feet. And he showed
us his feet and they were just like

858
01:13:44.199 --> 01:13:48.920
mine. They were all chafed and
it looked like they were frozen or something

859
01:13:49.399 --> 01:13:55.840
like the skin had been obviously been
traumatized, but they were just like my

860
01:13:56.000 --> 01:14:00.439
feet. And we were like,
wait a second, you know. So

861
01:14:01.359 --> 01:14:04.880
we went outside and we were like, are there footprints out here? Something?

862
01:14:04.920 --> 01:14:10.119
I don't remember if we saw any
or not, but it was very

863
01:14:10.279 --> 01:14:14.840
very strange, and it was obvious
that it seemed more like a dream,

864
01:14:15.560 --> 01:14:21.800
I mean, more more real than
a dream. And so we discussed that

865
01:14:21.960 --> 01:14:30.560
for a while and we decided that
you know, they come back every now

866
01:14:30.600 --> 01:14:35.640
and then. That's what Ray told
us because after his investigation, I said,

867
01:14:35.720 --> 01:14:39.279
Ray, you know, what do
I do with this? You know,

868
01:14:39.479 --> 01:14:41.960
I mean, I don't know what
to do with this stuff now it's

869
01:14:43.039 --> 01:14:46.279
the worms are out of the can. And he said, well, just

870
01:14:46.399 --> 01:14:51.239
try and go on with your life
and live your life, you know,

871
01:14:51.399 --> 01:14:57.720
try not to dwell on it.
But like I said before, that's possible,

872
01:14:58.640 --> 01:15:02.359
impossible. I think they've been back
several times. In fact, I

873
01:15:02.399 --> 01:15:09.399
know they have. And Ray said, you know, you guys, I

874
01:15:09.399 --> 01:15:11.720
don't want to scare you, and
I hate to tell you this, but

875
01:15:11.800 --> 01:15:15.880
I gotta be truthful. But she
always was with us. He said,

876
01:15:15.079 --> 01:15:20.640
you know they're going to come back
because it seems to us and after this

877
01:15:20.800 --> 01:15:27.760
study that you guys have been labeled
or something. You're tagged, and just

878
01:15:27.880 --> 01:15:32.800
like we tag wolves and dolphins and
whatever. He said, you're tagged and

879
01:15:33.439 --> 01:15:38.760
for some reason, they're going to
follow you throughout your life and he said,

880
01:15:38.800 --> 01:15:42.640
don't be surprised if they come back
every now and then to check up

881
01:15:42.640 --> 01:15:48.479
on you, because that's what our
research shows happens. And so he said,

882
01:15:48.520 --> 01:15:53.199
you know, I hate to leave
that with you, but those are

883
01:15:53.199 --> 01:16:00.479
the facts, and I believe they
have been back and it's been a real,

884
01:16:00.439 --> 01:16:06.600
amazing, amazing journey. Let me
tell you, Alejandro, I'll tell

885
01:16:06.600 --> 01:16:12.279
you something. I don't usually tell
people this, but I got to tell

886
01:16:12.319 --> 01:16:17.359
you this. The last time I
was taken by whatever these things are,

887
01:16:17.920 --> 01:16:27.000
they're not you, they're not from
here. They showed me an image of

888
01:16:27.039 --> 01:16:31.399
our galaxy, the whole galaxy,
and it was a barred galaxy. You

889
01:16:31.479 --> 01:16:36.680
know what a barred galaxy is,
right, Yeah, okay, it was

890
01:16:36.720 --> 01:16:44.359
a barred galaxy. And they showed
me this section in this one arm of

891
01:16:44.399 --> 01:16:51.159
the galaxy where they said they illuminated
this part, and they said, there

892
01:16:51.199 --> 01:17:00.520
are civilizations here, advanced, highly
advanced civilizations on these story in the star

893
01:17:00.600 --> 01:17:04.159
systems, and they're pretty close to
us. They're in the Orion Spur,

894
01:17:05.159 --> 01:17:11.199
they're not that far from us.
And they showed them to me, and

895
01:17:11.239 --> 01:17:14.920
I remember looking at this thinking,
well, that's not our galaxy. We

896
01:17:14.960 --> 01:17:17.680
don't have a barred galaxy. We've
got one with a big ball in the

897
01:17:17.720 --> 01:17:25.359
middle, you know. So I
don't understand this. But beside that point,

898
01:17:25.399 --> 01:17:30.840
they told me, well, this
is going to shock you, but

899
01:17:30.920 --> 01:17:39.600
I got to tell you. They
told me that those civilizations represent advanced civilizations

900
01:17:40.600 --> 01:17:49.239
that get their energy from unconditional love. There, I've said it. That's

901
01:17:49.279 --> 01:17:54.399
what they told me. And I
didn't understand what they meant. But this

902
01:17:54.600 --> 01:18:00.960
thing then that was communicating to me
reached out and touched to me, and

903
01:18:00.039 --> 01:18:03.880
I felt it. I mean it
was like, you know, the love

904
01:18:03.960 --> 01:18:11.840
you have for your wife or your
mother or whatever, brothers, except amplified

905
01:18:12.920 --> 01:18:18.720
kajillions of times. It was as
if everything in the universe that was capable

906
01:18:18.800 --> 01:18:25.680
of feeling love had focused it to
me so that I could feel it and

907
01:18:25.800 --> 01:18:30.359
know what they were talking about.
And yeah, I'm you know, I'm

908
01:18:30.399 --> 01:18:34.920
not a lovey dovey person, a
landro, you know, and and I'm

909
01:18:34.960 --> 01:18:40.840
certainly not capable of practicing unconditional love. I mean, everybody has baggage.

910
01:18:41.560 --> 01:18:46.840
But I felt it and it was
real, and it said after it did

911
01:18:46.880 --> 01:18:51.359
that, it told me that I
was ready, said you're ready, and

912
01:18:51.439 --> 01:18:55.159
I said, I don't get it. I don't know what you're talking about?

913
01:18:55.600 --> 01:19:00.000
What am I ready for? And
it answered, when the time comes,

914
01:19:00.039 --> 01:19:05.520
you'll know. And then they brought
me back and I was back in

915
01:19:05.600 --> 01:19:10.800
my house after that, and I
woke up that morning, and my wife

916
01:19:10.800 --> 01:19:15.319
can attest I was like shocked.
In fact, when I woke up,

917
01:19:15.520 --> 01:19:23.800
I could still feel that uncombat overwhelming
energy that came from the uncon It made

918
01:19:23.840 --> 01:19:28.680
me cry. I woke up and
I cried because I thought, my god,

919
01:19:28.920 --> 01:19:33.439
you know, I how could something
that profound exist? But it did

920
01:19:33.640 --> 01:19:40.079
and I felt it. And ever
since then, I've had a different uh

921
01:19:41.720 --> 01:19:45.479
outlook on what's happening. I don't
know why they told me this. I

922
01:19:45.479 --> 01:19:50.319
don't know why, but you know, there's a lot of unanswered questions about

923
01:19:50.319 --> 01:19:55.680
this stuff, Alejandro. And someday
I'll, you know, I'll I'll know

924
01:19:56.479 --> 01:20:00.520
when the time comes, I'll know, you know. But who knows?

925
01:20:00.640 --> 01:20:04.279
Or maybe they just mean a moment
of unconditional love that you felt for your

926
01:20:05.079 --> 01:20:09.960
you know, in your life.
Who knows n well? You know,

927
01:20:10.039 --> 01:20:13.800
Alejandro, I think a little bit
helps more than none, you know,

928
01:20:13.960 --> 01:20:19.439
And whoever we have unconditional love towards
is a help. And uh, you

929
01:20:19.479 --> 01:20:25.000
know, I try and keep that
attitude for everyone that I meet and have

930
01:20:25.079 --> 01:20:29.800
to deal with every day and in
my life, and and I try to

931
01:20:29.840 --> 01:20:34.640
do that. There's a couple of
people out there that you know there,

932
01:20:34.880 --> 01:20:43.560
yeah, that my unloving behavior shows
about. But it was it was a

933
01:20:43.640 --> 01:20:48.000
remarkable, uh revelation in a way, Alejandra, I'll tell you it was.

934
01:20:48.760 --> 01:20:55.119
It changed me. And and the
thing is is, I know,

935
01:20:56.000 --> 01:21:00.159
I know, at least I you
know, I think I know that we're

936
01:21:00.199 --> 01:21:05.520
not the only ones. They showed
me where in our galaxy these civilizations were.

937
01:21:05.960 --> 01:21:11.159
And then oh, here's the clincher. It was like years, like

938
01:21:11.960 --> 01:21:18.319
seven years or almost ten years later, I picked up a copy of Astronomy

939
01:21:18.399 --> 01:21:24.159
magazine because I was into, you
know, telescopes and stuff like that,

940
01:21:24.319 --> 01:21:28.479
just reading about them, and this
issue. In fact, I still have

941
01:21:28.560 --> 01:21:34.880
it here somewhere. Had an article
about the new information about our galaxy that

942
01:21:34.960 --> 01:21:41.279
they've been able to assemble with all
the new probes and telescopes, radio tele

943
01:21:41.880 --> 01:21:46.159
you know, all that stuff.
It's a barred galaxy. It turns out

944
01:21:46.239 --> 01:21:51.720
our galaxy is a barred galaxy.
It looked exactly like the thing they showed

945
01:21:51.760 --> 01:21:57.439
me exactly, And then I was
like, holy mackerel. You know,

946
01:21:57.520 --> 01:22:00.479
I thought that was all boloney because
I thought, you know, the barred

947
01:22:00.600 --> 01:22:05.560
galaxy was wrong, so therefore everything
else was wrong. But it wasn't it.

948
01:22:05.640 --> 01:22:12.039
Really. They showed me a picture
of our barred galaxy before we even

949
01:22:12.119 --> 01:22:16.560
knew it was one, So you
know, stuff like that. You know,

950
01:22:16.600 --> 01:22:23.439
it's hard to assimilate stuff like that, but I think I'm doing a

951
01:22:23.479 --> 01:22:26.520
pretty good job. One more thing
I wanted to talk to you about.

952
01:22:26.840 --> 01:22:31.279
All of you were artists, and
it seemed your art changed, and even

953
01:22:31.439 --> 01:22:36.279
in your case, especially skills it
seemed you acquired. Could you talk about

954
01:22:36.319 --> 01:22:43.840
that. Yeah, yeah, it's
another weird thing about this exposure to whatever

955
01:22:43.880 --> 01:22:49.680
that was. Before we went to
the Allygash, I was in art school

956
01:22:49.760 --> 01:22:56.279
and my major was painting, and
I was a very traditional painter. Landscapes

957
01:22:56.399 --> 01:23:00.880
is what I was into. Landscapes
and still lives, you know, setting

958
01:23:00.880 --> 01:23:03.159
things up, painting pictures, that
kind of stuff. It was very traditional,

959
01:23:04.119 --> 01:23:11.359
and immediately, in fact, after
the Outgash, I never painted again.

960
01:23:11.880 --> 01:23:17.439
I never used paint Immediately after I
came back, I became obsessed with

961
01:23:18.560 --> 01:23:29.119
mathematics and geometry and trigonometry and four
dimensional physics and all this weird stuff.

962
01:23:29.760 --> 01:23:32.199
I don't know where it was coming
from, Alejandro, but I was obsessed

963
01:23:32.239 --> 01:23:39.880
with it. And I started making
these constructions out of paper and string and

964
01:23:40.119 --> 01:23:45.479
tax and it was three dimensional math. It was all three dimensional mathematics.

965
01:23:46.079 --> 01:23:54.199
And I was folding paper. I
was drawing these mathematical patterns that were based

966
01:23:54.239 --> 01:23:58.720
on five, which is the number
one point six, one eight, blah

967
01:23:58.800 --> 01:24:03.199
blah blah blah blah. And I
didn't I didn't understand why I I was.

968
01:24:04.319 --> 01:24:10.560
It was a compulsion. It was
weird, and I never painted again.

969
01:24:10.880 --> 01:24:16.159
Never. I was doing silk screening
at the time and I still kept

970
01:24:16.199 --> 01:24:24.319
that up, but all my artwork
changed to this mathematical kind of geogeometry,

971
01:24:25.960 --> 01:24:32.920
really bizarre, like four dimensional physics
and stuff that I was trying to make

972
01:24:34.079 --> 01:24:39.119
my art from. And it was
really weird. Alhadra, I almost went

973
01:24:39.199 --> 01:24:44.640
crazy because I was making these things
constantly. I mean, my whole life

974
01:24:45.520 --> 01:24:54.359
became obsessed with this mathematics and and
not only just the math, but everything

975
01:24:55.199 --> 01:25:02.560
you every year of Neomoto Musashi or
of Japan, Yeah, okay, well,

976
01:25:03.319 --> 01:25:10.680
I became obsessed with the geometry of
his sword style. He had a

977
01:25:11.079 --> 01:25:16.600
two sword style and it was all
based on the geometry of the human bodies

978
01:25:16.800 --> 01:25:24.800
ability and limits of movement, and
like that was another thing I became obsessed

979
01:25:24.840 --> 01:25:30.079
with was how Neomodum Musashi could figure
out the geometry and mathematics of his moves

980
01:25:30.079 --> 01:25:36.840
and stuff. It was crazy.
It's totally crazy. Oh yeah, Oh

981
01:25:36.920 --> 01:25:45.560
yeah, it absolutely did. Because
one of the things it changed was my

982
01:25:47.239 --> 01:25:51.079
ability to communicate with people. For
some reason, I got into teaching.

983
01:25:51.920 --> 01:25:57.920
I wanted to teach, and I
was teaching people how to do silk screens

984
01:25:58.079 --> 01:26:02.800
and poster art and design using silk
screens. And I became really involved in

985
01:26:02.880 --> 01:26:09.039
that, and that was an extension
from my time at the Graphic Workshop in

986
01:26:09.119 --> 01:26:16.520
Boston while I was in school.
But I became here's another weird thing.

987
01:26:16.640 --> 01:26:25.079
I suddenly became mechanically adept. Before
I couldn't change a spark plug in a

988
01:26:25.159 --> 01:26:28.760
car, and then all of a
sudden, it was like, oh,

989
01:26:28.800 --> 01:26:32.479
I can fix that, and I
could do this stuff, and it goes

990
01:26:32.520 --> 01:26:39.640
on today. People my neighbors bring
me stuff that's broken, like a broken

991
01:26:41.479 --> 01:26:45.159
air conditioner or something like that,
and I fix it. I've never I

992
01:26:45.159 --> 01:26:48.880
don't know where this comes from.
I'll tell you. Alejandro it's just like

993
01:26:50.359 --> 01:26:53.960
I'm getting known as you know,
Jack, to fix it, man,

994
01:26:54.039 --> 01:26:56.600
you can fix anything. I don't
know where that came from, but it

995
01:26:56.640 --> 01:27:02.680
was immediately after that experience where I
seem to develop these interests that I never

996
01:27:02.760 --> 01:27:09.600
had before. In fact, mathematics. I hated math. I flunked every

997
01:27:09.640 --> 01:27:14.720
math course I ever had in my
life, and suddenly I was obsessed with

998
01:27:14.800 --> 01:27:18.319
it. In fact, I took
a course of advanced Mathematics at mass College

999
01:27:18.359 --> 01:27:23.199
of Art and ACE the class.
That's the first time I ever got an

1000
01:27:23.199 --> 01:27:27.159
A in math in my life.
And I don't know where, you know,

1001
01:27:27.239 --> 01:27:34.439
it was just it just was pouring
out of me and it remains today.

1002
01:27:34.479 --> 01:27:42.479
I still do very mathematical geometrical art
work, and you know, I

1003
01:27:42.560 --> 01:27:47.000
want to find out what's going on, but I think I'm closer to the

1004
01:27:47.039 --> 01:27:55.039
answer. And I'll tell you something
else too, is it's people like you

1005
01:27:55.560 --> 01:28:00.239
that are actually helpful because it allows
me to think that, Okay, I

1006
01:28:00.239 --> 01:28:04.600
can tell people this. It's okay
to think about it. I'm not nuts.

1007
01:28:05.479 --> 01:28:10.960
It's okay to think about it.
It's okay to try and investigate and

1008
01:28:11.000 --> 01:28:16.199
get to the bottom of it.
And it allows me to contact other people

1009
01:28:16.279 --> 01:28:23.319
like yourself and maybe learn something that
I don't know yet, like what am

1010
01:28:23.319 --> 01:28:26.560
When Am I going to be ready? You know, I don't. I

1011
01:28:26.600 --> 01:28:30.760
don't think I am yet. That's
the hard part is all of this is

1012
01:28:30.840 --> 01:28:35.000
so enigmatic that it's almost as if
we're just not meant to know, We're

1013
01:28:35.159 --> 01:28:40.880
meant to experience. And maybe we
know on some subconscious level that we'll never

1014
01:28:41.000 --> 01:28:47.640
understand consciously. But and maybe that's
what they're referring to. But it's difficult

1015
01:28:47.680 --> 01:28:51.560
because as the years go on and
I do this and I interview people,

1016
01:28:51.680 --> 01:28:57.000
interact with people, or you read
books, people in the past who have

1017
01:28:57.720 --> 01:29:02.760
been given similar messages have passed a
way without ever knowing yeah or no change.

1018
01:29:02.800 --> 01:29:06.000
Really, I look at the world
around us now and I think,

1019
01:29:06.039 --> 01:29:11.920
man, we're way off from having
unconditional love on this planet. Yeah,

1020
01:29:11.920 --> 01:29:17.359
that's why Ray Faller Roy I have
a great respect for him and everything that

1021
01:29:17.399 --> 01:29:20.720
he told you, that you've told
me, he told you he's a very

1022
01:29:20.760 --> 01:29:25.199
wise person. I think he's exactly
correct, and everything that he told you,

1023
01:29:25.399 --> 01:29:31.039
Ray has been he's been unbelievably helpful, very very helpful and understanding.

1024
01:29:32.079 --> 01:29:36.239
All Right, Thank you, very
very much to Jack Wiener really neat guy.

1025
01:29:36.399 --> 01:29:41.479
I love these Wiener brothers and Chuck
Folts too, really really cool guys.

1026
01:29:41.520 --> 01:29:44.920
So we'll have some more information,
as I said up, we'll have

1027
01:29:45.000 --> 01:29:48.039
some videos and things like that.
Also, if you want to see Chuck

1028
01:29:48.119 --> 01:29:55.800
Foltz's presentation where he goes through all
of this and more, Chuck Folts actually

1029
01:29:55.840 --> 01:30:01.399
gets a lot more in depth than
these last two interviews because he starts from

1030
01:30:01.399 --> 01:30:05.279
the beginning to the end, so
you'll get to hear more details about their

1031
01:30:05.359 --> 01:30:11.840
trip out there at the Aligash If
you watch the presentation by Chuck Foltz at

1032
01:30:11.840 --> 01:30:16.000
the IUFO C the International UFO Congress, and you can get those at Openminds

1033
01:30:16.039 --> 01:30:20.840
dot tv the store if you click
the store link you'll find those, so

1034
01:30:21.000 --> 01:30:27.079
yeah, really good stuff. Also, you could get all of the lectures

1035
01:30:27.359 --> 01:30:30.520
at the store there and all the
news that Jason and I talked about at

1036
01:30:30.600 --> 01:30:36.880
Openminds dot Tv. So a great
case. I really want to keep reminding

1037
01:30:36.880 --> 01:30:41.920
people and getting information out about the
Aligash case because I don't want it to

1038
01:30:41.920 --> 01:30:45.880
be forgotten. And I think it's
just a really important case that everybody should

1039
01:30:45.880 --> 01:30:49.279
know about. And these guys are
so accessible that they're still here and they're

1040
01:30:49.319 --> 01:30:53.800
still around, unlike some of the
other great cases out there like Betty and

1041
01:30:53.840 --> 01:30:58.000
Barney Hill, where they have passed
away. So I want to keep this

1042
01:30:58.399 --> 01:31:02.800
story alive and the miss Street I'm
still looked into and keep it fresh in

1043
01:31:02.840 --> 01:31:09.479
people's memories because it's important stuff.
So stay tuned for more on that.

1044
01:31:10.319 --> 01:31:15.600
Otherwise, thank you all so much
for joining us. Thank you to Caleb

1045
01:31:15.680 --> 01:31:19.800
Haiggs for the opening and close music. Also, don't forget to watch spacing

1046
01:31:20.000 --> 01:31:24.920
Out on our YouTube channel. We
had one last week. I got mixed

1047
01:31:25.000 --> 01:31:29.119
up on when you know Maureen was
going to be on her trip to Boise

1048
01:31:29.720 --> 01:31:32.960
and that actually happened last week,
so she will be back in time to

1049
01:31:33.039 --> 01:31:38.399
do another spacing Out this week,
So we'll have another one coming out on

1050
01:31:38.560 --> 01:31:44.560
Friday and into the near future foreseeable
future, we will have those out every

1051
01:31:44.600 --> 01:31:50.199
Friday, so check that out.
Otherwise, we'll have a new Open minds

1052
01:31:50.319 --> 01:31:56.479
UFO Radio next week. I do
want to thank link Tai who invited me

1053
01:31:56.600 --> 01:32:02.239
to her annual celebration for the Phoenix
Lights at a local movie theater. It

1054
01:32:02.399 --> 01:32:06.760
always it is their biggest theater and
it gets sold out every year. A

1055
01:32:06.880 --> 01:32:12.159
packed house to watch her documentary on
the Phoenix Lights and then she has some

1056
01:32:12.239 --> 01:32:15.560
of us lecture afterwards, and that's
a lot of fun. One of the

1057
01:32:15.600 --> 01:32:20.960
people she had lecture was Travis Walton, and he is doing his own event

1058
01:32:21.079 --> 01:32:28.000
in November, which is the fortieth
anniversary of his abduction experience, and in

1059
01:32:28.039 --> 01:32:35.239
fact, on the day of the
fortieth anniversary of the event, he will

1060
01:32:35.279 --> 01:32:41.119
be taking people out to the forest
to be at the spot where they saw

1061
01:32:41.159 --> 01:32:45.000
the UFO at the time they saw
the UFO. So this is going to

1062
01:32:45.039 --> 01:32:48.800
be really cool. You could see
what's available thus far at Skyfiresummit dot com.

1063
01:32:48.960 --> 01:32:55.039
They'll have more information out there soon, but LINKTI, Travis Walton,

1064
01:32:55.359 --> 01:33:00.840
and myself will all be at that
event, but will also all be Contact

1065
01:33:00.920 --> 01:33:03.039
in the Desert, so all three
of us will be lecturing there, so

1066
01:33:03.079 --> 01:33:08.239
you can check out more there about
that at Contact in the Desert just google

1067
01:33:08.279 --> 01:33:11.600
it. That's going to be like
in the last weekend of May, so

1068
01:33:11.680 --> 01:33:14.399
that'll be a lot of fun.
So a lot going on and coming up

1069
01:33:14.439 --> 01:33:16.600
where you can come hang out with
us. We always love to see you

1070
01:33:16.720 --> 01:33:21.399
and of course we always love to
see you all at the Congress, So

1071
01:33:21.479 --> 01:33:25.359
thank you all. Those of you
listeners who were able to make it.

1072
01:33:25.800 --> 01:33:28.960
I know many others of you wish
you could have, and of course there'll

1073
01:33:29.000 --> 01:33:31.159
be more in the future, so
hopefully you'll be able to join us.

1074
01:33:31.159 --> 01:33:34.680
But it was great to see those
of you. And we greatly greatly appreciate

1075
01:33:34.720 --> 01:33:40.079
when people come up and say,
hey, love the radio show because or

1076
01:33:40.239 --> 01:33:44.039
spacing out, because we put a
lot of work into getting all these stories

1077
01:33:44.039 --> 01:33:47.520
out and getting this information out to
you. We love doing it, and

1078
01:33:47.640 --> 01:33:53.479
you know, we're overjoyed when people
are actually taking advantage of our hard work

1079
01:33:53.520 --> 01:33:57.600
and being able to read and listen
and watch everything that we do. Thank

1080
01:33:57.640 --> 01:34:00.520
you so much so you can see
more of every thing at open minds dot

1081
01:34:00.600 --> 01:34:05.399
tv. Again, thank you for
listening, and we will talk to you

1082
01:34:05.439 --> 01:35:01.760
next week. People audio smooth touches
my shimming sound. The glass t is

1083
01:35:01.960 --> 01:35:05.000
hovering on my second