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Billified and all our social media platforms. Today a one on one with a
very interesting man at a very interesting time. It's Mikhail Gerstein, correct,
is that? Yeah? Yeah, yeah, yeah, perfect, See I
did it now. Michale made a documentary about his homeland, Ukraine, which
is the center of as we head into another presidential election, a source that
people are uh divided on on how to handle that sort of thing. But
I'd like to start with you, and you're living there and coming here,
and your experience is coming here. And I think that this plays even into
our immigration problems that we have in this country, where you know, there's
a whole lot of focus and a whole lot of rhetoric about the border,
but what we're not changing is our our immigration system, which is really tough
for many people. Well, someone said that our immigration system is way too
old, and yes, yeah, I think that's true. Very old computer
like from eighties. Yeah, live in the twenty fifth century. So that's
pretty much would be the good comparison. I guess. Yeah. In my
family, we were lucky. Yeah, there are lots of buckets in that
immigration. Hello, I'm Ukrainian born Jew, okay, and we came here.
Well you got the double WHAMMI right now, don't you? My goodness?
Well if Ukrainian and Jew two things that are really not popular right now.
And to add to it that I was born when it was Soviet Union.
Ah, oh, look at this. They're very complicated, all right.
So okay, so I have lots of questions, lots of questions for
kil How much do you guy? Right? What's that? How much time
we got. We got as much time as you have, right, as
much time as you have. So you left in nineteen ninety eight, nineteen
ninety eight, So you've been in this country for twenty seven years. No,
it's almost twenty five. Yeah, well twenty five would be two,
yeah, twenty six okay, so right, okay, so that's uh,
it's a long time, it is. Yes, How old were you when
he came? I was in my early thirties, in your early thirties,
married, had a family at the time, we were still married, but
we were an edge of divorce. Okay, but you had kids and all.
What was the impetus to make you come? Well, as I mentioned,
my second is a Jew. So there was a program for Jewish refugees
from former Soviet Union, and someone from the family immigrated here earlier in the
nineties, and then my father came with my younger brother and then I in
ninety seven, and then I came after them. Okay, So you came,
and what was happening over in at the time Soviet Union or Ukraine was
a Ukraine? Yes, it was Ukraine, always Ukraine. And well eight
ninety eight, that's the the year after what they called the wild nineties and
the former Soviet Union. Everything was been divided between different groups and different political
factions, not just political, but ethnic even ethnic and let's call it the
mafia. Okay, okay, just to be polite, yes, but understand
there there is there is a reason called wild nineties, the wild nineties,
because the mid nineties it was pretty intense on the territory of world former Soviet
Union. Okay, so just for safety reasons, asylum being a Jew feeling
like maybe that was exactly My father was here and he had to go for
the heart surgery or one of the heart procedures. Yes, So basically he
said, if you're not coming, I'm not going for So if you don't
come and I'm not coming, have with the heart surgery. Yeah, Jesus,
what a guilt trip. That's true. Yeah, that's uh, well,
you know you are Jewish. They lay guilt. I'm isn't it the
thing? Like they would see the Irish mother and the Jewish brother to come
over? What's that? He almost blackmailed me to come over? Yes,
are you happy you did? I'm yes, yes, I guess, yes,
I guess yes. Well I was lucky. I worked in the movies,
and television in Ukraine and Okay, since nineteen what was the big what
was the big movie you worked on? I don't think I've ever seen a
Ukrainian film. There was, Well, there was a movie that made in
actually a week. We picked it up and naty two when we made it,
and there were pretty big uh actors played there. Yeah, And at
some point in nineteen ninety four I had to work in Moscow and I worked
with the big directors. Yeah, like young Witherkevich was one of them,
pretty famous name. And so I got I gained some experience working in the
film which and then I cut the beginning of creation of the commercial television okay
and in Ukrainian in Moscow, in Moscow, and then when I came back
from Moscow, so wait, commercial television was just coming into existence over there
in the in the early nineties. Yes, really, it's amazing. I
mean the Soviet Union collapsing in ninety one took it took time and years.
Yeah, but prior to that, fighting the territory, the markets and all
of this. So ninety four, what was did they do any sitcoms like
we have here. I'm just curious did they have anything like later, Yes
they did. Yeah, did they have like the wacky American that lived over
there, because we always had the waki foreigner like Balky in uh bus and
Buddies or whatever. Well, one of the latest now in Ukraine, the
wiki Canadian lives there, a Wiki Canadian. Yeah, it's a pretty cool
Ukrainian Canadian or Canadian Ukrainian came to Ukraine and he's a he was a police
officer in Canada and he's a police sheriff or whatever in Ukraine. And what
language are they now? It's in Ukrainian. It's in Ukraine. I keep
saying, like my second wife, she's an ethnic Ukrainian, Okay, And
I kept saying too, like since the beginning of this full scale invasion.
Yeah, I've been saying that what Russians did first with invading in twenty twenty
two is they broke every single family is even thoughts of speaking in Russian because
so they don't want to speak in Russian, right, many people, I
know they refuse Eve when I started learning Ukrainian because did you speak Russian?
That's what the primary How many languages do you speak? Including swearing? But
English? Well, English still consider my second language. I would yeah,
although you do very well, thank you, But it's you know, this
is a language I speak for the last almost twenty twenty five plus years.
Yes, but as an adult, not easy to learn, and not in
language that with a lot of slang. So I'll tell you when I came
here and I thought I had all a's and English when I went in high
school and university, and when I couldn't understand the few things at the airport,
I go, well, there goes my English lesson, there goes my
English lessons. Right, so you've got so English you speak Russian? And
then and then now I can say I can speak and understand. Well I
understood the Ukrainian before, yes, but now I can I speak not fluently
fluent, right, But my Ukrainian friends when we talk, they go like,
wow, you really really doing well? Yes? So can you tell
a joke in Russian? I'm not asking you too, I'm just saying that
I this will sound kind of funny, but I always think you have a
good command of whatever language it is, if you can tell a joke,
Because a joke sometimes is a play on words, or an idea or sometimes
a surprise in some way, and language is the big effect in that,
and so I always think if you can, yes, I'll tell you one
which easy to translate. Okay, Actually I can tell you too, okay.
So the first is that there was a very famous comedian, stand up
comedian and back from Soviet times to Yakov Smirnoff. No it was, he
passed away a couple of years ago, but I had a religion and honored
to meet him a couple of times. He's originally from the city where I
came from, Mandessa on the south of Ukraine. And there are a few
aphorisms that's still alive with in today, and people accuse it as jokes.
So one of them if you say it in Russian, and if people listen
to the people who speak Russian the lesson, they're probably gonna laugh. But
there was a It was about alcohol. So you're saying alcoholol madza palising lubicalchester,
which means the alcohol in small portions good for you in any amount,
You maya good for you in any amount. Yeah, bullshit. So pretty
much you can do little shots, but as long as you're here Estand so
another one I love to bring to my meteorologist friends, the synoptics about sidin
rats. Did the meteorologists making making mistakes only once? Yes, but every
day every day? Right, so, and no one cares, Like,
how do you keep your job when you keep getting wrong? You go outside,
you look outside and like, here we go, I'm gonna pull that.
I'm gonna just pull that moke back. Okay, it's heavy. I
think Mike started getting scared. I'm afraid of may be closer and closer to
it. So tell me when you came here, when you came to the
United States, your father does have the heart surgery. He had the heart
procedure and then later on he had the heart surgery quadruple bypass surgery, and
he survived. He leaved another almost what seven He died in two thousand and
seven, but she leaved. And you know, it was very, very
cool because when when I was growing up, I haven't I barely could see
my father because he wasn't in the military, okay, and in the military
for army, Soviet army. Yeah, and it was he he was always
he always the greatest example for me of being a man. Yeah. But
these past years here, you know, I could I had a chance to
spend time with him. How did he how did he feel about, you
know, having served in the Soviet army. Uh, big deal, right,
And usually that's somebody who's uh loyal to their country, a nationalist,
you would think for for the most part, what was his reason for coming?
Well, there was there was nothing there because he retired and he retirely
with a good terms and thinking mentioned eating eighty nine, I think, and
actually that retirement process cost a heart attack in his early age. Yeah,
eighty nine. And how old was he eighty nine? He was about forty
eight, forty eight, okay, and he had a heart attack at forty
eight, Yeah, and then came over here. How old was he when
he passed? Sixty six? Too many parochies, I'm kidding, I'm teasing.
Probably a lot of stress, a lot of I think. So,
yeah, when you say there was nothing there, I don't know that anybody's
really familiar. But the Soviet Union we when I was a kid that Russia
was the enemy. I say, in our country right now, we need
a unifying moment. We need a unifying moment for the citizens of this country.
Not a tragedy that unifies us, but an exciting moment, the last
big exciting moment that was unified US was when the US hockey team beat their
Soviets. Come on, Mikhail, but do you understand what I'm saying?
And it was with Reagan and we knew who the Soviets were. The Soviets
were, you know, we didn't want to, I understand. But what
I'm saying is it was a big win because you had a bunch of amateurs
for his pros. And I'm not trying to get under your skin. My
point, my main I've been I've been asking a question before honestly in college,
yes, but but my point is this, I feel like we had
a unifying moment that really wasn't tragic. It was exciting, and we beat
a country that we thought were the red comedie bastards and the blah blah blah.
Now we don't know is Russia the the enemy? Are they to be
trusted. We've got some political candidates telling us that he's a good guy.
Then we read about other things. So I'm just saying, like we don't
have the it was us first them. It was this Cold war kind of
thing at the time. I'm not saying it it's the right way to handle
it. I'm just saying, for this country. Personal opinion. Yeah,
Russia cannot be trusted. Okay, all right, well that's to make it
sure. Yeah, I can go on and on. No, No,
that's okay. My first education is historian. And yes, my good friend
EVN. Dohnson said, you just ask his name and he's going to start
talking and talking. Yes, that's but Russia cannot be trusted okay today,
Yeah, when they invaded the neighbor country under some BS reason. Right,
Well, I want to get to that, and I want to talk about
the film, but I want to go kind of through your life, if
you don't mind, just with your dad being here, I just I find
it absolutely fascinating that your father was in the Soviet Army and it sounds like
for most of his adult life. Yeah, yeah, and then decides when
he retires, there's nothing here, so they don't take care of the military.
There was no job like some people will retire to take care of the
military. My father grew to the ranks as a colonel, okay, but
when that was very unusual. Sure, So he was a colonel in the
Soviet that saw a high ranking official in the Soviet artist and so he retires
when I'm what I'm saying, is not take care of the army when you
retire. They don't. Yes, And he also work in some film after
he retired. Yeah, for years, a few years. And so,
Miquel, do you kind of get what I'm saying. We're over here.
The Soviets were the bad guys for lack of a better term, and your
dad was in that army and then he must have seen us as the bad
guy, and then all of a sudden comes over here because it's it's just
better. There was a term potential enemy. Potential enemy, Yes, and
I remember that term when I served in the Soviet Army. You served in
the Soviet Army as well. Commandary. I had to serve, I had
to go and it was mandatory. Yeah, I had to serve for two
years at what age eighteen? Well, I went a year later because I
was I was studied at university, so instead of going in eighty five,
I went to eighty six to eighty eight. Okay, So what was it
like in the Soviet Army? Did you learn skills that you still rely on
today? Is there discipline and things of that nature? Yes? Beneficial.
I mean those things are beneficial just as a human stay with another. Maybe,
well I'm older now and not healthier than thirty years ago. Yes,
yes, with a certain degree of the training, I can go back and
defend Ukraine if I need to, If you needed to, because of what
you learned with the Soviet Army, probably yes, and no Ukrainian armies.
Do you ask My friend, a very good friend told me two years ago.
When I asked him I want to go and fight, He told me,
no, we don't need you. Yeah, because we don't have time
to retrain you. And that he pushed. He pushed me to this film
idea later on. But Ukrainian Army is different from the Soviet Army. But
you were in the Soviet Army. Why were you in the Soviet Army and
not the Ukrainian Army? Well, did they not have a Ukrainian Army?
Did they not need? Back then there was a Soviet Union and it is
Soviet Union, So the Ukraine was part of Soviet Union when the when it
fell, Yes, the USSR fell, you know, right, So now
we've got you, you became your own country. This is very interesting because
I was called to actually serve serve in the Ukrainian Army in the ninety two.
Okay, but back then I was, uh, you know, I
just graduated in ninety one from with the degree of World history and archaeology.
Uh, the career there didn't work. So I just started working in a
film in the movies. Yes, yes, and I was pretty okay with
that. When they called me in, I was. I made a joke.
I told the guy, how you how you see the Jewish captain become
the commander of platoon of the Ukrainian Army with a bunch of Ukrainians. What
do you think if the war when I'm when I'm gonna die? That was
a joke, That's funny. But I did attend a couple of training training
camps. You did, yes, But I was I think ninety two and
a couple of times. So both of them like, and I was like,
I was home, but I would go to the camp during the day,
that kind of thing. And I just refused, and I had a
you know, I had a reason to refuse, and I didn't want to
repeat my father's career. Yes, so the army talk to me, talk
to me about how hard it is. I think, like a lot of
times, as Americans were ignorant, we're ignorant to the rest of the world.
Uh. And I think when you look at sort of the the Baltic
countries and things, the things were ripped away, you know, like creating
Yugoslavia, which was the Slavics and others. Right, So you're trying to
take people who identified and felt like they had a territory, go, well,
you don't have it anymore. We're all one, and so it doesn't
it doesn't work because there's pride. I'm not Russian, I'm Ukrainian. Yeah,
you know what I mean. Yeah, it takes people called me Russian.
Sure. When I came in the country, when I start working at
WX Society for many years, people called me Russian. Yes, and I
kept repeating over and over and over, I'm Ukrainian. I am not Russian.
I'm a Ukrainian born Jews. Yeah. And it's a different country,
Yes it is. And they took a while, right, And how did
the Ukrainians, I mean there had to be some that still identified as Ukrainian
while part of the Soviet Union. Correct. Maybe older generation thinks, yes,
that's what I'm saying. Yes, they're from Soviet Union, They're from
Soviet Union. I haven't met that kind of people. Yeah, but I
mean, well, Ukrainians have been Ukrainians for over a thousand years, yes,
and so what I mean so that that that's what I'm saying. And
so now this country comes into formation what in the early nineties, not exactly,
not exactly. No, the Ukraine existed way before, way before that.
Even Russia came to write this is what I this is what I'm trying
to get you to tell. So and then it was there, and then
Russia sort of swallowed it up. Yes, unfortunate thing. Yes. And
so then when the USSR dissolves the Ukraine, Ukraine comes back to being it's
Ukraine again, yes, or at least identifying as that. Ukraine was always
identified as Ukraine, yes, and inside of the Soviet Union, okay,
but there was always suppressed. Right, So there's a pride, and I
have to think I would think of bitterness almost that you're part of this country
and not able to identify as yourself I'm part of because I wouldn't think of
Russia as a melting pot. Do you understand what I'm saying? The United
States is known as a melting pot. My family primarily Ireland, right,
Well, Russia also someone like what they have, like a hundred plus nationalities.
Yes, but are they welcoming to them? Is there racism over there?
Yes, I mean pretty open. Actually not just racism. I would
call it the fascism. Fascism, okay, when they no respect to the
smaller nations. Yes, like with the war in Ukraine, with this full
full scale invasion. Yes, the most people who come to fight in Ukraine,
and they're dead right now. Yes, according to the numbers, are
over four hundred thousand now dead, and so that's pretty but most of them
are from small nations, smaller the big cities the Russians. Russians supposedly leave,
well they swallowed up, so the Buriats and all those smaller you know,
nations from all over the Russia, right, they all was sud there.
That's what the question. When you came to Ukraine to defend supposedly defend
Russia, if you leave nineteen thousand kilometers away from from what Russia is,
from what Ukraine is, I understand. So you come over here in ninety
eight, you have been here since then, you go back often you have
dual citizenship, No, I don't have a dual citizenship. You don't my
Ukrainian citizenship, I think expire them two thousand and eight. Okay, and
you're a US citizen and I'm a US citizen for many years. But how's
the immigration for you? Hard? The hardness was to learn to relearn the
language, which to re learn language. But I mean in terms of the
policies of coming over, did they get because you mentioned I think getting a
daughter, a friend's daughter over and what a process that is. Is it
tougher now than it was? Probably? Yes. I wouldn't say that the
United States immigration policies are easy. Yes, maybe they seems like. But
for example, to bring over my wife's daughter from Ukraine, and it took
us a while. We had to wait, we had to get all the
paperwork. I am a citizen, my wife became a citizen. We had
to wait for some time before we even get in respond. That's why I
asked Louis Order's office to help at least to get the response. And the
immigration the bureaucracy is a universal, Yes, it's just it's a different subject
for no I understand. But I think like one of the hot issues right
now is border and these absurd numbers that are told to US. I always
kind of go, could it possibly be twenty thousand a day or whatever?
The it seems ridiculous to me that illegals coming over when on there, I
doubt it. Yeah, that's what I'm saying. I'm not there. It
seems seems crazy to me. But from what I've heard from some Ukrainians actually
who came here two years ago and they leave and they had to enter through
the Texas and Texas from Mexico, and they were saying that they stayed in
camp for some time before being allowed to even allow to cross the border.
Yeah, the situation. So Ukrainians coming over the southern border or two,
Yes, they were, that's the and why is that? Were there people
helping them? I think at the beginning of the war. I think there
was one of the ways, yea, when the people thought they would faster,
one was to try to get it that way up to Mexico and then
say try to get asylum. Yeah. Yeah, well, and that's they
didn't have these issues to get asylum because they were already coming under that program
United for Ukraine. United for Ukraine. You could come over you twenty four
or something like that. You for you. Yeah, when the Ukrainian refugees
from war come over, and so they didn't have the issues, right,
it's just the way time. Yeah. How are those who I've just asked
popped into my head? How are those who leave viewed by those who stay
and fight? It depends? Yeah? Are there is there some animosity?
You think? I think so? Yeah, disappointment. Let's put it this
way, and I can say it because I already told about it. I've
seen the young men from Ukraine living, not living, fleeing the country.
They don't want to fight. They don't want to fight. Uh, they
use any means possible, it means possible to leave, including the money.
Yeah. What other countries are they going to besides Germany? France? In
France, it'll think, I think it'll lead too, but mainly Germany and
Frands, Poland, Poland, Yeah, America in America right, well,
I I That's what I'm saying. Beyond that, because I don't think I
know quite a few who came here who came here. So and the reason
this is my opinion, and that because my step son in law stayed.
He stayed and he's fighting at the front line. Yeah, yes, give
me you know you're talking a lot about that, but you simulated you didn't
have any issues. Your a thirty year old man when you come over,
so a little bit older learning the language. Was it easy to find jobs?
Was it easy to Were you treated well? I think I was lucky
when the production manager back then in nineteen ninety nine, Eric Funden, after
an interview with me with my broken English and everything, hired me to work
as a production assistant in wxxcisey Okay. And it happened right before my mom's
built in October, so it was like a present. And back then actually
for my interview, right the day or two before I failed my driving test.
So my father drove me to the station. And have you ever driven
a car? Well you had to in yeah, without a driver lesson but
yeah, yeah, okay, but on the right, the same side of
the road. We're not. Well, we'll Britain, you know, it's
different and Britain and I think Japan. I think, yes, Japan.
Yes, So everything the same. It's just the same crazy drivers, Yeah,
everywhere, all those crazy Yukis of you. You know the roads I
mean now the roads are better, yes, in certain areas which didn't touch
by the war. But I was actually surprised in twenty twenty one when I
came, when I visited your brand first after immigrating. Yes, my first
visit was in in the fall of twenty twenty one. So the war's going
on and you decided to go back. Well, the war started, lay
there I start. So I visited the Ukraine first in October of September,
October of twelfth. God it started in twenty twenty two. Yeah, I'm
thinking started in twenty They forget we're in twenty twenty absolutely different because Alkait,
So you went back just as to see No I came. I went back
in twenty one to reinstate and continue my work on the documentary about Holocaust survivors.
Okay, with your family Holocaust survivors, second generation, Yeah, I
would say my father, Yes, your father was. My father was five
months old when the family left Key, right before those mass murderers and bobbin
Yard started. Yeah, so I'm alive today because they managed to leave the
city. Unbelievable, right, I mean unbelievable. You think you never think
about it until you actually see the Bobby Yar. Yeah, and that's when
I first out in twenty one. I saw Babynyar with my own eyes?
Why did you want to see that? Well, the Holocaust documentaries and in
works for almost twenty years. Okay, what's the title and where can you
see? For now? I keep the title. I may change it,
but for now as the unknown heroes, the Jews of the Soviet Union and
the Holocaust. Okay, so the Jesus Soviet Union not really talked about.
No, they don't really like talking. No, of course, I managed
to take only four interviews from the local Do people not want to identify as
Jewish and Russia? Yes and no, Yes and no. But these survivors
don't want to talk. They don't want to relieve for this again, of
course, and it's very hard, the same as in Ukraine those who lost
their loved ones. Yes, they don't want to talk about that. Okay,
it's very painful. Let's so this documentary, the one on the Holocaust
completed. No, no, still and still. There was a plan,
yes between me and my friend, that I'll come back in April May of
twenty twenty two, okay, to work on finishing the film about Holocausts.
And then February twenty four happened. Yes, and it changed everything everything.
Yeah, you did go back though, yes I did, and you made
a different documentary. Yes, and this one about the war that's happening.
Where where is that now that we can? I know you've shown it.
There was a screening, Yes, yes, are you going to put it
out anywhere? Well? First, as my daughter said that, you and
I we have to sit down and go for your mistakes and errors. Grammar
simple like subtitles, for example, some translations from Russian or Ukrainian, because
in the film it's not just my voice. I had to do the voice
over my films time ever and then that took a while. But the interview
I've I've had with the people through zoom or there, either in Russian or
Ukrainian. What's the title? What? What is the title of this document?
This one has wore in Ukraine a view from inside of you inside?
So how many people have seen it with some power? By that, I
mean like, have we had anybody? I showed it a couple of government
former government official forms. But on the trailer part, the trailer and the
promo, I really hope to be able to show it two members of the
Congress to show them how people in Ukraine live and what they do to help
without any power to help the country to win. Yeah, Russia deciding that
Ukraine was part of the USSR is still their territory, coming in to take
it back, is that Russia. Russia thinks that Ukraine doesn't exist, doesn't
exist, the same thing as Russian propaganda things that the Ukrainians. Why so
long? Why wait from ninety eight to or excuse me, early nineties,
like ninety two to now to take it back? Well, why are we
going over thirty years? We're forgetting that. It was two thousand and fourteen,
the annexation of Crimea. Yes, when Russia annexed these countries. So
they Russia started in two thousand and fourteen, and there was a and those
little those those it was a test how the international community will react. Yes,
so okay, let's take camea. Everybody was silent. Yeah, even
though like Obama was trying to do something and uh Ugashi and the sanctions which
sometimes working sometimes not. Then they took Downbass region. Okay, and again
the world was selling. As one of my friends maybe I can call him
friend, that one of the producer's main producers in Ukraine. When I interviewed
him he said, the world forgets that this war is started in two thousand
and fourteen. And Ukrainians soldier. Did anybody stand up back then when Crimea
and others were taken over? No one, they didn't. They just sort
of rolled. That's how the famous monthy my dad started in Ukraine. Yes,
because people thought that the president Ynikovich back then will sell the country to
Russia. Peace. So now so these other so Russia is trying to expand
their territory and their influence and their control. I think Russia, I mean
Russia. I think the the person who think that he is a collector of
the Russian Yes, yes, lands yes uh. Which there is a medical
term for this kind of people, a lunatic. Would you he think that
the would you say his name or no? I don't, I'm not.
I'm just asking you don't have to. But do you do you speak his
name? Ever? Sometimes sometimes okay, I didn't know if it was when
I have to, I'm not. I'm not. I don't want to force
you. A part of the put in his address when he announced the special
military operation, and they I'm surprised at how how guy in a few minutes
can not just announce it, but also threatened the world like do not do
not intervene. Yeah, and the world has and the world didn't just first
time since twenty fourteen. In the world didn't listen. The world didn't listen.
But they haven't really gotten involved other than financially and equipment and even that
I'll call more financial. Yeah, and the equipment some of it wasn't any
good conditions too. Okay, we're sending your our ship. Oh yeah,
you can say that are used. I mean some of the tanks which arrived
by small portions and late. Yeah, Like I read a couple reports,
like for example, out of twelve tanks that arrived, four or I think
four had to be repaired, another two didn't work completely had to be replaced.
So if to get this ratio to this two hundred, three hundred tanks
that were center Ukraine, not at once but through you know, the stretch
of time. If you consider that out of three hundred tanks not really working
where we're going, where we're going, where we're going, and well,
they could be dummies, you could kind of you know, you know what
I'm saying, a decoy Ukraine is the actual And but and I keep saying,
like the native if they saw, you know, strongly supporting Ukraine,
they have way better operational ammunition that they can give Ukraine, and not like
in pieces, but in bigger, bigger chunks, And so what do you
say? I have a couple of questions because there this is becoming a hotter
issue as we approach a political season, and I am very interested in in
your opinion. Someone says, well, what do you care? You live
here, You live here, You've lived here for thirty years. It was
a Russian territory at one point. I understand that people identify as Ukrainian,
but hey, you know, this shit happens. What do you say to
that Ukraine is still my motherland? Yes, I have my you know,
my ancestors buried there. My friends are they're fighting. Yeah, I've seen
in twenty two the cities which are deere to my heart beautiful. By the
way, architecture, history, all this historical architecture, which is just gorgeous,
destroyed the identity of a people. And Russians are still when they're saying,
let's wipe them all up, the cities with the people, yeah,
and then maybe we'll maybe we will rebuild it later now I do you can
rebuild something that was built in fifteen well in sixteen seventeen, eighteenth century,
you cannot rebuild that anymore. Yeah, it's gone, do you. There
was some talk in the beginning that young men who were in the Soviet army
at times didn't want to fight the Ukraine. They saw them as brothers,
understood maybe had family that identified as Ukraine, and maybe they went to the
Soviet but they didn't. There were at least there were some reports early on
there are people who don't want to fight. Yeah, that serving the army
very small drops in the sea, in the ocean, but mainly they go
there for money or not. But they go there, they fight, they
kill, they rape, the torture. Yeah, Like there was a religious
reports that Russians now killing the prisoners, these Ukrainian soldiers who are giving up
to become a prisoners of war. They're just killed them right there at the
positions they were Like videos from drones. You cannot hide this anymore. There
are videos from drones and you can clearly see how Russians are killing Ukrainian soldiers
right there at the tranches who were giving up. I mean, when when
I raise surrendering, I surrender and then killing them and they're killing them.
So yes, I wanted to, you know, go and fight, even
in my age, and uh, the two rolling back to your we save
here, No, we are not. You're not safe here, none of
us, none of us. You're not safe, all of the Americans.
You're not safe. If you think that you somewhere in Texas, Arizona,
New York State, or wherever, and you saved because Russia is somewhere far
far away on the other side of the ocean and they're not reaching you your
own It will take about thirty minutes if that lunatic and the Kremlin decide to
push that button. It will take about thirty minutes before rockets will start flying
here and not flying lending here, lending from Siberia to California even faster.
Do you think and what you're going to do to run for your life and
be safe for your life or your children? Do you think that that is
a real possibility with the dictator at this state of mind we're putting this right
now, everything is possible. The dictators are hard to predict, very hard
to predict, and the dictator, who is also crazy, it's even harder
to predict, do you, And we are not safe here and what Ukraine
does right now and Ukrainian people and my friends, they are a shield to
save all of us. They are chilled, the real Oh, they are
the shield to save all of us. I mean we know that. What
do you say, probably going to be fast first to attack by Russians.
Yes, if they see they destroy Ukraine right now, it's going to be
probably Baltic countries, Poland, and then according to the Russian propaganda, which
is stating pretty openly, Russian tanks will go through the Europe. Russian tanks
will go for Europe, through Europe up until I don't know, Madrid and
everything that they openly stating that they need to burn Berlin, Paris and everything
else up unto up to Madrid. So it's a Russian propaganda, Russian propaganda,
but it is being said. You're saying that the state channels. That
means that someone in the government, so they have a plan, supports this
idea. Yeah, So okay, to that end, there are many people
in the United States that get upset when they hear that we're sending ninety three
million or billion or I don't even know the actual number. I know ninety
three was there, right, but let's say one hundred and six. I
heard ninety three was the latest thing. So I don't know if a million
or I'm assuming MILLI I'm going to sound ignorant. Point doesn't matter. The
number doesn't matter. People feel like that money shouldn't be going to the Ukraine.
We should be helping our own hearing the United States. What do you
say to that to those people? Because you go ahead, I'll let you
answer. And then all I think when government relocates, there's kind of money
to help Ukraine, in Israel and Taiwan being know what they're doing, and
I'm pretty sure there are social programs that still in fact to help people here
in the United States, I understand. And do you think that the government
program still exists expensions and other you know, other programs medical and stuff like
that. So I'm assuming relocating that big money be not taking it from you
or me, They've taken it from somewhere else. Well, some people feel
like then they're printing money, and if we're printing money, we lower the
value of the dollar. And there's these are things that are said. My
point being that what you have laid forth to me is a sound argument as
to why you want to stop this and we don't. Instead of putting our
own people on the lines in the Ukraine to prevent Russia and probably escalating things
if if that were to happen, it is an easier way to fund it,
because we don't want Russia then to take over. And if the propaganda
is as you say, and I had not heard that until you said it,
go march to Madrid. But I avoid the news sometimes because it's very
depressive. I I can't live like that, Miguel, I can't live like
that. I've I you're Jewish, you love misery. It's just yeah,
it's it's in the DNA. I'm but it's I don't know what to say
to these people. We had the older man at at my premiere, at
the premiere of the film, towards the end, he was demanding that let's
freeze this war, let's stop the killing. And without understanding, if we
freeze the war right now where it is, let's say whatever Russian's just captured,
we stop it so Russia gets what they captured. Yeah, we call
it the ceasefire, right, Yeah, And then how much of the country.
Have they captured under twenty percent? I think take like eighteen or something.
Okay, but it is under Russian controls PRIMEA I'm assuming. Yeah,
So let's assume we froze the war right now. What Russia will do it
will escalate the production of the weapons and ammunitions and within the year two three
it will start over again. And if we freeze the war right now,
Russia may start not just with the Ukraine, it may go further the war.
It will show to Putting that the world and the United States are weak,
they're not standing and the Russian and and it's going to just support his
uh crazy statements that the Russia is the best country in the world and the
Russian army is the strongest in the world. Ukraine right now, in the
last two years after open invasion, showing the world that Russian army is not
the strongest in the world. It's not even the second Goliath type situation.
Correct, Yes, yeah, I mean you don't. Ukraine has an organized
military, yes, but but smaller smaller for sure, yeah, but but
organized. But some of these people fighting or not, they're just citizens who
have decided to stay. They well, the army and the city is in
territorial defense. Yes, territorial defense, like my son in law for example,
my brother in law. Yeah, yeah, there is a territorial defense.
That's what was When was the last time you talked to one of them?
We have a chance, like over the weekend to talk with my son
in law once in a while, Like we're going to be discussing right now,
because some of the money will be sent to them. The boys need
help. So every time I have chance, we I help with whatever I
can. Yeah, is this why you work? Tell people what you do?
Oh, what do you mean, Oh my second job? Yeah?
What's your second job? Oh? Deliver pizzas? And you deliver pizza?
Okay? Are you doing that just to send money back? Well yeah,
I assume you don't need over the money help to you know, pay bills
and someone might try to collect and send back. Will you you work a
regular job? Yes? Yeah, but it costs money also to put the
documentary together, well more than mostly it costs time time, but a little
bit, but money. But time is money in a way, right,
because that means you're not working. And then are you still at XXI or
yeah, so you're still working there? And then you're delivering pizzas. How
many hours a week do you work? Well, what are you? Exxci?
Okay? And then another sometimes fifteen twenty hours, so you're working.
So you're probably working sixty hours twelve, average twelve okay, average twelve.
All right, you're lazy? Get going? Uh so? And may I
ask? May I ask without being I hope this isn't rude. But how
old a man are you? I'm I'm gonna be fifty seven this year.
You're gonna be fifty seven. Okay, so you're not that old. No,
no, you got a lot of energy. And then i'm you're young
and inside yes, younger, yes, younger. Okay. Do you did
you ever have pizza before you came here? Yeah? You did in the
Ukraine. Do they have pizza in Ki they have pizza? Well, you
can call it the pizza. I'm just curious. I'm just curious, like
you know dad. So yeah, yeah, yeah it was a pizza.
What was the first time you had fast food? What do you think of
that? And didn't like it? Of course, not tastes like shit,
didn't like it? Yeah, I actually was in Moscow when the first McDonald's
was open. You were yeh okay. And what was that? Like?
Huge lie of people find up to try to try it, something that no
one ever tried before. Right? Did they hate it? I don't know.
I didn't go, you didn't go. Was that seen as the Western
well, I mean Russia's western world, but the America sort of expansion in
a way, I don't know. It seemed like there's nothing, look McDonald's.
Maybe real democracy right now right here after the Soviet Union collapse, Yes,
I don't know. There were I mean when after collapse of the Soviet
Union, when the old days uh you know, big stores and McDonald's and
whatever start coming to Russia Ukraine, it looked like the Iron curtain headphoned completely
fallen and broke. Yeah. Right, but so are they trying to reassemble
the Iron Curtain? Yes? Yeah, they are trying to reassemble what Russia?
And so you think that it's very important that the United States and other
countries continue to fund to stop the spread of Russia. Yes, meaning that
they will take over and the propaganda being set on state television in Russia.
I wouldn't know this other than you, is that they they their intention is
to run their tanks and take over Europe up to Madrid and possibly further.
Yes, okay, and they don't you Ohio that the Washington as an ax
Washington d C from what I read the Washington d C and not even the
number one target. It is not the number one target. No, there
is nothing in Washington, d C. But Capitol Yes, right, So
what's the number one target? New York City? I'm assuming something that has
more people, the populated area, it has a power great and the nearby,
which means Rochester Buffalo. You think Rochester Buffalo is gonna be taken over?
We have power plant right there, the Niagara Niagara power plans. You
realize how crazy you sound. I'm just saying, yes, what I assume?
Yes, I'm I'm only playing the other side to you that and that's
possible. Do you think that that's the possibility? Big cities? Now do
they come through? Do they come through Canada? Well, Canada probably another
target. I mean, now they go and create with the crazy ideas that
Alaska still belong to Russia. So what is the idea? What they have
to take it over? What's the end game? What's the purpose of all
this power? The power? We do realize that there's enough game as power
is power to what to run the world. Probably that's what That's what every
dictator won. Napoleon wanted it, yes, Julius says one. Yes,
Alexander the great one of it. Hitler wanted it. Yes, Now put
In want of it? Right, History unfortunately sometimes repeat itself does. And
you know, between Hitler and Napoleon there was a significant amount of time,
but between Hitler and Puttin it shortens. So the sparrow gets shorter. But
do we think that what does Putin stand? I mean, we knew that
the enemy clearly was anybody who wasn't uh you know, blue eyed, blonde
haired aryan race for Russia excuse me for Germany. But is there there's no
ethnic cleansing idea with Russia? Is there? Well? They they now they
just trying to erase all these tatars. Boyats the trying to erase them.
They're trying to like there is the meaning bringing is like we all Russians,
Yeah, we're all Russians, right, yeah, yeah, which I would
say historically the Russia doesn't exist. Historically, Russia doesn't exist. Russian Federation.
According to some experts, Russian Federation probably don't don't even have a place
in United Nations, right, it just took over the USSR. Yes,
so it doesn't. But it is recognized though. Well. But the papers,
Yes, what the papers? There are no papers. I understand what
you're saying. Yes, this is interesting because I think there's a whole part
of the world that we don't understand. And history still evolving, right,
I mean, and history is still evolving, it's being rewritten the way the
way you put in wants, yes, because we think of a lot of
time. As you know, history is ancient, right, and the world
is the way it is, But we're not You can't pay attention. Do
you think then, would you go so far as to buy into Yeah,
you seem I'm going to say paranoid that there could be the Russia is on
the brink of trying to get world domination. I'm not paranoid. I'm trying
to look at the the picture with a little pessimism, probably because well,
when you say that no one's safe, you're not safe. Family is not
safe. In order to in order to realize the the what is it right
now? Yes, one maybe need to go and see it with his own
Ice might have no intention of doing that. But I've seen what the destruction
Yesh breins over to Ukraine. People probably seeing those videos from CNN and NBC
of Destroit, Mariopaul and Marianca and Bachmut and now Afdijka. This is what
Russia breens. This is what may happen with Warsaw, Poland, yeah,
or other countries if Ukraine breaks. Do those countries do Polish people live in
fear of that. Polish people right now trying to prevent Ukrainian grain and the
other products go through Poland. From what I've heard and seen, say that
again, Polish farmers now blocking the borders. They're blocking the borders saying that
they they don't want the Ukrainian products, the trucks, they don't want them
coming in. They want to come through technically Ukrainian trucks going through Poland further
with the Ukrainian grain and corn and whatever, and Poland doesn't want that anymore.
They just there were incidents on the border. They they were, you
know, throwing it off on the ground. Are they on the Russian side?
I would assume that the Russia put put the hand on it, put
a little pressure on them. No hand, there's somebody there. Do you
think there's a Do you think that there's a Russian operative in the Polish government?
Maybe not in a government, but you don't have to be in a
government, but somewhere. You need to be on the farms and say something
to a farmer that So the farmers themselves are doing this. This is a
citizen thing, yep, and they will go to we'll go further spread.
Yeah. So do you think then that Poland will align with Russia in order
to keep their own identity in their own country, or do you think that
Russia would then try to annex them and take them over. They will annex
them, they will annex them. You believe they will annex them. So
Poland will remain Poland, but it'll be a Russian territory. Oh, I
don't know. They already started talking about that Poland was also created by different
neighboring countries. Yes, and that the Poland used to be part of the
Poland used to belong to Russia. Yes, and it was Russian empires,
it was historically right, and part of it was belonged to Germany. And
I mean, according to Putin, it's Poland's fault, that's the world War
two started. It's Poland's fault that World War two started. Yeah, so
he's going to come back. So, as I said, it's very hard
to predict the right dit dictator with the mind of the lunatic, and that
that kind of dictator pudding is. Yeah, how would people if there's somebody
who listens and hears this and wants to support in some way, what do
they do? Do you know of any funds or anything? Well? Here
in registers a Rock May Down as one of the biggest organizations that helps Ukraine
since twenty fourteen. What is it called? Rock may Don r O C
m A I d E. And it's pretty rock Maiden rock may Down that
way you pronounced it rock may done A I d O N. I think
So all right, it's okay, it's okay. But and is that what
are the people will send supplies? We could the actually I think just sam
like twenty be container to help your brain? What do you need? Like
socks? And I'm telling you socks, And I know that sounds funny,
but I think that socks are almost a luxury when you're if you're fighting.
You know, we've been we've been sending socks to the I know, I
know it sounds silly, but I'm just saying that can help. And sure,
what's the weather like there now? Like this similar? I mean so
cold, the the the the sprint there is coming sooner than here. Okay,
so it is coming, okay, and it will be warmer and that
will lead to more fight. Uh, it will lead to more fight.
But it's also don't forget. With the end of winter, the roads will
be harder, like you know, they becomesh oh wet. Well, what
do you mean there's no paved roads. A lot of paved roads, yes,
but then there are no paved paved roads at the front lines. Oh,
I got you. Okay, not at the front lines so over there.
See what about Easter Ukrainian Easter? You Easter? Well, Easter is
probably not a Jewish holiday so much because you don't well we have put them
yeah, porum okay, Yeah. And because the Jewish people don't believe that
Jesus was the son of God. Well, would that be the basis,
I'm not h it's Jewish people believe in a bit different. Yeah, I
mean I've been a while since said I've read Dora or anything else, but
they yeah, they believe are different different. Yeah, A great teacher,
my daughter, but the God is a great teacher. Yes, yes,
yes, yes, I have a different belief myself to some things that probably
more than I was brought up traditionally. Uh, but that almost every one
of us have it inside of us, the spirit of God. You are
an extension of the Creator. I just it's interesting to me because I have
a a I believe that there's enough of everything for everyone that you don't need
to worry about someone taking your whatever. But yet we live in this human
see it, touch it, smell it, feel it world, this realistic
world that we want to take it because you got it and that's mine,
and so therefore I'm going to take it. There is always someone who wants
to take yours, yes, but who want to take something that doesn't belong
to them. I understand that's it. I understand you're very passionate about this,
and I you almost it almost Uh worries me a bit. What I
was going to ask you before, though it would be more of a conspiracy
theory in a way, do you think a lot of times not a lot
of times, do you believe in any way anything inside you believe at all
that all this social media is just a wonderful distraction for the rest of the
world to not be paying attention. Well, it depends on what social media
does. Social media can also spread the news of and give you frontline.
We can go Facebook live and you can see things and messages can get out.
But what I'm thinking is TikTok and how many people get involved in TikTok
for for so long? I'm not there. I know you're not there,
but I'm saying like there are parts of the world that you know. The
resecial media is very powerful, yes, uh, instrument right, and things
can be manipulated messages right, we I mean I've seen some of my own
friends hands and may go cuckoo. Yes that's a good one. I'll just
say it that way, batshit crazy, yes, cuckoo, right, but
but could be good. Did you do any social media when you were in
Ukraine filming the documentary of Lines and then twenty two? Yeah, yes,
that was well. I was trying when don't forget that was a war zone.
What are you times there were no electricity? What or no Internet?
What do you say to guys like Elon Musk who sent up the satellite link
for that to help that I haven't. I haven't used it because they were
back when I was there. It was mainly for the govern and emergency.
I've seen sometimes in the Wi FI like a key for example, the option
to move to startling. His help is helping. I mean, obviously it's
very powerful AH way of communication and support communication. Although I've heard that there
are failures in some points. I also heard that Russians start getting it through
their countries, which is they're taking it over. Yeah, well hacking in
at some point that it should have happened. I'm assuming like when Mask said
that he has nothing to do and he didn't sell anything to Russians, Well
probably he's right, but someone else did. I don't know Kazakhstan or even
Turkey or whatever. Right, so, but Musk can stop to all these
small But Musk can stop. It's what you're saying, and he's not.
He's not. You know, what's exactly what those things are? The station,
right, so he can stop that station exactly where it is, he
can turn it off. Yeah. Interesting, Uh do you think these other
small countries live in fear? Turkey, Romania, Poland? Poland? Not
so small, But I'm not sure about Turkey. Turky is interesting, always
been, actually yes, historically, yes, it seems like Turkey is a
part of a native But at the same time, Turkey it's still sort of
in the communications and sort of trazy with Russia. Trades with Russia, they
depend on Russia. They're codependent and relationship. Interesting because at the same time
Russia saying that native is enemy. Yes, but so Turkey seems to have
a foot in both camps. Well, right, there is a way of
sitting with one ass and two chairs, but one ass on two chairs.
I got you very good, you know, but sometimes these chairs go yeah,
so you're you're the thing to people who talk about the money and the
aid coming from the United States would be it is needed to prevent the spread
of Russia, if we're not going to escalate this and put it into a
war. He is the Russian mindset of the nationalists there is to expand that
country and influence over the world, and so to prevent that from happening.
To be able to keep your own identity and your freedom, think of it
as a long term, long term investment. Yes, do you feel like
we talk about freedom in this country? A lot is are you freer here
than you are in Russia? I know that that sounds like a ridiculous question
because the answer yes, you idiot. But my point being that if you
speak out against the Russian government, which someone has and then ended up dead,
yeah, right, like Valley right, So that being different here you
can say things, you can burn our flag. What would happen if you
burn the flag in Russia? Probably you may get up to death, beat
up to okay by police, because I think that many people would like to
see that happen if you burn the American flag. But my point is here
you have those freedoms to express yourself, practice your own religion. Do those
sorts of things? Uh similar? Do you have those freedoms freedom of religion?
And so that the Union? Yes, no, not exactly. I
mean what's that it was proclaimed? It was proclaimed freedom of religion. But
you don't feel like that that's necessarily true. And in today's Russia, the
religion is a way which is supposed to be for peace. Right, Yes,
it supports the war, okay, which is absolutely wrong. Okay,
I mean every religion is it for peace? Yes? Freedom of press doesn't
exist in Russia now definitely not no. And what about in terms of like
you know, variety, is it state controlled radio? Is their independent radio
station? It is state control everything, stay controlled, every free or democratic.
Yes, media outlets they're gone, they're gone. They they are there,
they talk, but they are like streaming on YouTube. And I don't
think they are in Russia. They probably somewhere else, somewhere else do because
there are people on YouTube and I watch them and they they talk and they're
trying to tell sends into Russian's minds, explaining that putting is wrong. And
look, this is what happened, and why we need to invade the other
countries when we cannot even fix our own. When half of the Russia lives
in excuse me, in increments, there are no in the country, which
is one of the richest on oil and gas. At least twenty five percent
of the country doesn't have gas in their homes, or electricity or water they
don't have. In twenty twenty four, there are parts of Russia no running
water, no running water. There was a report one village somewhere in Siberia
for three months they don't have waters in their houses because the water tower frozen.
I'm sorry to let you sure that wasn't poland that sounds polish to me.
I'm kidding. It's lefable, but it's true. And there are videos
they show in the Russian homes you're gonna call them homes. I mean,
you work in a multi apartment building and you think that from the first floor
to the second you can you need to walk, But you see the ice
coming from down and up inside of a Why do people want to live there?
People not just live there. They still think that it's not Putt in
its fault, and you're saying it is. This is something the government could
say, government steals from its own people. It's government's fault. But people
still believe no. Putting is like guitar who worries about people? Yes,
and there are multiple videos all over internet when all these people almost on the
knees asking Putting help us our whatever, our house without electricity and water.
Yeah, kids are sick, please help us? Really and nothing interesting?
Well, this has been fascinating. Where can people see the documentary? You're
editing again, you're going back through. Yeah, I need to go and
fix some stuff in this version, and then I'm planning to work on a
broadcast copy with hopes to show it on TV at some point. Okay,
it's going to be longer and more detailed than what was at the screening.
I'm hoping for another screening, maybe in March, in March, closer to
end of March, maybe end of March. Where would people find out information
about that? Can they follow you on Facebook? Facebook? Yes? Yeah,
Facebook? And the Instagram doesn't the one too, I'm using it.
I'm not on the TikTok. So you're not on the TikTok. Now,
you don't want to be on the tee. You can't do the dances on
the tictok no anymore that you want to go back and fight, you can
dance. And it's two different. That is true. That is true.
Uh, Michael Gerstein very interesting and very very passionate. And I think a
different perspective because I think people want to just turn it off and he's not
that bad, and yeah, we're living over here, not our not our
problem. You're not safe anymore anywhere. We're not safe the century. You
know, the rockets can fly. This is scary. Maybe it sounds better
annoying, but yes, it's it's a possibility. It's a possibility. As
I said, Dictator is not predictable or very hard to predict. Yeah,
I uh, I appreciate you coming in. Thank you, thank you.
Yeah. I think what you do is uh, it's gutsy, it's gutsy.
Do you ever fear yourself for saying some of the things you say that
no other Russia will find? I'm not afraid. I've been. I've been.
Fred you have you have I've had. Yeah, I've been. I'm
okay. Well for Michael, I'm Bill Moran. We'll see tomorrow, Mack
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because it's been so darn cold, but the warm weather will be here.
You will have backyard bangers, you will have corporate events, you will have
graduation parties and wedding receptions, and you may want Jimmy Z's Plates and Shakes
truck to come out to any of those. You could find out how to
make that happen by going to Plates and Shakes dot com. It's still there,
yeah, Plates Andshakes dot com. You can also find out how to
get the catering from Jimmy Z's Plates and Shakes. Wouldn't be great at a
graduation party to tell everybody I got Jimmy Z's Plates and Shakes. Yeah,
boy, let me tell you something that would be a hit. You'd have
strangers you never even met before from your neighborhood showing up because they could smell
the beautiful aromas of Jimmy Z's Plates and Shakes. Find out more at Platesandshakes
dot com.