WEBVTT 1 00:00:11.279 --> 00:00:15.919 Welcome to Veterans Chronicles. I'm Greg Corumbus. Our guest in this edition is 2 00:00:16.000 --> 00:00:20.920 retired US Air Force Colonel George Ferkey's. He served more than three decades in 3 00:00:21.000 --> 00:00:25.719 uniform, much of it in special operations. He was also part of Operation 4 00:00:25.839 --> 00:00:31.679 Eagle Claw. That's the daring nineteen eighty mission designed to rescue American hostages in 5 00:00:31.719 --> 00:00:35.159 Iran. And Colonel Ferkey's thanks so much for being with us. Oh my 6 00:00:35.240 --> 00:00:37.479 pleasure. Where were you born in ranks, sir? I was born in 7 00:00:37.600 --> 00:00:42.119 littletown in Indiana called Noblesville, Indiana, just north of Indianapolis. And was 8 00:00:42.119 --> 00:00:45.479 there a history of military service in your family? Oh no, not really. 9 00:00:45.920 --> 00:00:50.439 My dad wasn't didn't serve in World War Two, but he supported He 10 00:00:50.560 --> 00:00:55.280 was in the industrial firestone plant working. So did you have an interest in 11 00:00:55.359 --> 00:00:58.359 flying as a kid, No, not really. Surprisingly, it was one 12 00:00:58.399 --> 00:01:03.520 of those things where the opportunity came along. It looked exciting and something. 13 00:01:03.960 --> 00:01:06.519 You know, I was gonna look like I was gonna get drafted anyway, 14 00:01:06.560 --> 00:01:11.920 So I volunteered to become an Air Force officer and uh and go to flight 15 00:01:11.959 --> 00:01:19.680 school. Tell me about flight school. It was it was a unique experience. 16 00:01:19.760 --> 00:01:23.000 I think anybody that has been through whether air Force flight school or naval 17 00:01:23.000 --> 00:01:26.920 flight school, will tell you that it changed your life. I mean that 18 00:01:27.120 --> 00:01:33.079 as a student. You know, you're some people are already attuned to flying. 19 00:01:33.200 --> 00:01:37.879 I hadn't done much flying at all, and so it really a whole 20 00:01:37.920 --> 00:01:41.439 new perspective. You know, you're doing things that you never thought you would 21 00:01:41.439 --> 00:01:46.719 do. You're faced with challenges on uh, you know, first thing, 22 00:01:46.760 --> 00:01:52.280 attaining your your going solo and in the different airplanes, and it's a huge 23 00:01:52.280 --> 00:01:55.480 step to all of a sudden be given, especially as you get towards the 24 00:01:55.599 --> 00:02:00.319 end, and given this high powered jet aircraft to go out and do kinds 25 00:02:00.319 --> 00:02:05.519 of acrobatics and maneuvers and there's there's nobody there but you and then you're you 26 00:02:05.560 --> 00:02:08.680 know, thirty thousand feet and you're free as a bird. What was the 27 00:02:08.680 --> 00:02:13.840 most challenging part for you? Oh, you know, the academics sort of 28 00:02:13.919 --> 00:02:19.439 came naturally. I was mechanically and mathematically inclined, so that wasn't bad. 29 00:02:20.199 --> 00:02:22.719 I think, just to learn the stick and rudder stuff of it, you 30 00:02:22.759 --> 00:02:27.680 know, the aerodynamics uh uh, you know what what all the and the 31 00:02:27.719 --> 00:02:30.039 procedures. You know, you have to memorize procedures. So it's a it's 32 00:02:30.080 --> 00:02:34.919 a you know, there's a routine that you have to go through and that's 33 00:02:35.879 --> 00:02:39.159 a regiment and you've got to know that regiment, you know, by heart 34 00:02:39.199 --> 00:02:43.599 and boom boom, boom boom, and and that's that's sort of a different 35 00:02:43.599 --> 00:02:46.800 approach than when you're a kid and growing up and uh, you know, 36 00:02:46.879 --> 00:02:50.319 not not worried about going out and driving a car. This is an airplane 37 00:02:50.319 --> 00:02:53.719 and you have to know every step of it and be prepared for emergencies and 38 00:02:53.719 --> 00:02:57.919 and the loss of engine and all kinds of different things. So that was 39 00:02:58.000 --> 00:03:00.439 the part of it that was, you know, you really had to hit 40 00:03:00.479 --> 00:03:04.719 that hard. What were you flying in training? We started out in the 41 00:03:04.759 --> 00:03:07.400 T forty one, was just a high wing, single engine Piper cub type 42 00:03:07.439 --> 00:03:12.240 thing, and then we went to the T thirty seven, which is a 43 00:03:12.240 --> 00:03:17.479 little low wing uh jet, side by side seating in it. They're still 44 00:03:17.759 --> 00:03:23.199 I think they've gone away from that now. And then the candy coded training 45 00:03:23.240 --> 00:03:28.639 aid was the T thirty eight. It was a supersonic basically a low end 46 00:03:28.639 --> 00:03:34.159 fighter, and that was a tandem cockpit and that was the one that when 47 00:03:34.159 --> 00:03:37.120 you got to solo that and go out and do you know, you could 48 00:03:37.400 --> 00:03:40.240 do acrobatics on it and all kinds of things. And once you did that, 49 00:03:40.319 --> 00:03:46.199 and you are on your way to putting those silver wings on and so 50 00:03:46.280 --> 00:03:47.639 that of course it's still well in Vietnam. War is going on. So 51 00:03:47.879 --> 00:03:52.280 yeah, so what happened after you finished flight training? So every once you 52 00:03:52.319 --> 00:03:57.319 finished flight training, the students in the in the class are rated, you 53 00:03:57.360 --> 00:04:00.840 know, one through the end of the class, and the first one gets 54 00:04:00.080 --> 00:04:04.080 there's a block of airplanes that come down and everybody gets to choose and in 55 00:04:04.479 --> 00:04:12.080 the rating and and uh there was some some selection also by the instructor pilots. 56 00:04:12.120 --> 00:04:15.839 But but that's where you ended up with an airplane that you go that 57 00:04:15.959 --> 00:04:20.680 you got and I ended up with a O two a Super Skymaster, which 58 00:04:20.720 --> 00:04:24.839 was a forward air controller. There was about six of them in the class, 59 00:04:25.680 --> 00:04:30.160 and we all went obviously go right to went out right to Vietnam. 60 00:04:30.240 --> 00:04:35.240 We did both general survival training and then we went through jungle survival training on 61 00:04:35.279 --> 00:04:41.439 the way to Southeast Asia. And then then en route we learned to fly 62 00:04:41.519 --> 00:04:46.879 the the O two A here at four Wall Beach at Harvard and then we 63 00:04:46.920 --> 00:04:50.480 got over there and we were assigned to a location and uh either southeast at 64 00:04:50.480 --> 00:04:55.199 some place in Southeast Asia, either Vietnam or some of them were over in 65 00:04:55.519 --> 00:05:00.040 Thailand. Explain what a forward air controller does. He Basically, back in 66 00:04:59.920 --> 00:05:03.360 the those days, we didn't have all the high end communications with the ground 67 00:05:03.360 --> 00:05:09.120 troops, so we were the We were the communications link between the fighters and 68 00:05:09.199 --> 00:05:15.800 the ground troops. Our job was visualqu connaissance, close air support, battle 69 00:05:15.879 --> 00:05:19.800 damage assessment. Uh. Uh you know anything. We had an area and 70 00:05:19.879 --> 00:05:25.439 we were basically responsible for all the activities are going on when uh. And 71 00:05:25.560 --> 00:05:29.040 we stayed in contact with the troops that were underground in the movement. So 72 00:05:29.079 --> 00:05:32.639 we were the link if they wanted to close air support or artillery and they 73 00:05:32.639 --> 00:05:39.319 couldn't reach them with their radios. We were overhead and that's what we did 74 00:05:39.399 --> 00:05:43.360 day in, day out at night. Uh. That was the end country 75 00:05:43.399 --> 00:05:47.120 mission where we had troops underground out the facts that the outcountry were flying over 76 00:05:47.160 --> 00:05:53.519 the ho Chi Min trail day and night and doing interdiction mainly of the convoys 77 00:05:53.519 --> 00:05:57.040 coming down. So it was a sort of a different kind if you were 78 00:05:57.079 --> 00:05:59.920 in country or out country. Tell me a little bit about the O two 79 00:06:00.240 --> 00:06:03.040 what'd you like about It was about, well, it's a push pull airplane. 80 00:06:03.040 --> 00:06:08.639 It's got a twin boom. It's a fairly maneuverable, it's not real 81 00:06:08.720 --> 00:06:12.920 fast. It didn't have a lot of armament. Uh. It carries h 82 00:06:13.519 --> 00:06:17.279 T two pods of rockets, seven on each side, and also as a 83 00:06:17.319 --> 00:06:23.720 station where you can carry uh flares or other things like that. And there's 84 00:06:23.800 --> 00:06:27.199 no guns. The only gun was what we shot out the window if we 85 00:06:27.360 --> 00:06:31.399 decided we wanted to shoot our air fifteen out the window. UM. And 86 00:06:31.759 --> 00:06:36.759 it's pretty slow, I mean, you know, one thirty one forty UM. 87 00:06:36.800 --> 00:06:41.839 And it was good observation. I had very good observation. The windows 88 00:06:41.839 --> 00:06:45.319 came all the way down to about your below your waist, so you could 89 00:06:45.759 --> 00:06:48.319 see out of it. Uh. It was twin seats and actually it was 90 00:06:48.360 --> 00:06:53.319 a third seat in the back of it. We had five radios in it. 91 00:06:53.920 --> 00:06:58.519 But it wasn't irrefuelable. So our missions were about the long mission was 92 00:06:58.560 --> 00:07:00.240 four and a half hours. You were you are in fumes by the time 93 00:07:00.279 --> 00:07:02.959 you did it there, but most of our missions ran two and a half 94 00:07:03.000 --> 00:07:08.720 to three hours. Through the major operations, you were connected with Dewey Canyon, 95 00:07:08.759 --> 00:07:13.040 two and support of fire support based Fuller, So tell me a little 96 00:07:13.040 --> 00:07:16.560 bit about those operations. Dewey Canyon two was also known as Lamps On seven 97 00:07:16.639 --> 00:07:23.720 one nine, and it was an early nineteen seventy there was a decision made 98 00:07:23.839 --> 00:07:30.720 for the South Vietnamese to make an incursion into Laos and cut the coaching men 99 00:07:30.759 --> 00:07:36.839 trail at a town called Hippone. Chapone was highly defended by the North Vietnamese. 100 00:07:39.959 --> 00:07:45.000 The plants were made in secret. They were going to supply five five 101 00:07:45.079 --> 00:07:49.240 divisions, had an armored division, an infantry division, a paratroop division, 102 00:07:49.279 --> 00:07:55.279 a marine division, and there was one other division. And they reopened Cason 103 00:07:55.399 --> 00:08:01.519 to do that. All the airlift for the insertions were by US Army helicopters 104 00:08:01.839 --> 00:08:07.600 which all came from basically the northern part of South Vietnam, and we reopened 105 00:08:07.680 --> 00:08:11.639 Cason and that's where they did the transce load to it and put them into 106 00:08:11.639 --> 00:08:16.199 all these different fire support bases that they reopened or made during that time. 107 00:08:16.879 --> 00:08:22.560 We went from having four O twos and four OV tens a Quang Tree where 108 00:08:22.560 --> 00:08:26.439 I was stationed, to having forty of each. So it was an unbelievable 109 00:08:28.040 --> 00:08:35.120 large exercise. We provided all the day and night air cover as FOURD air 110 00:08:35.159 --> 00:08:41.639 controllers and generally directed all the air strikes that came in. It was unfortunately 111 00:08:41.720 --> 00:08:46.200 not very successful. They did reach Hippone but turned back immediately. The casualties 112 00:08:46.240 --> 00:08:52.320 for the South Vietnamese were tremendous. Most of those divisions never came back in 113 00:08:52.480 --> 00:09:00.240 any more than in pieces and parts. It was a huge defeat, though 114 00:09:00.240 --> 00:09:05.120 they claimed a victory and that was sort of the beginning of the end uh 115 00:09:05.799 --> 00:09:13.519 for the that that era for Fire Support Base Fuller was again. By that 116 00:09:13.559 --> 00:09:18.639 time the South Vietnamese Army was Second Regiment, First Arvan Division owned the DMZ. 117 00:09:18.320 --> 00:09:22.200 They took over from Marines there and so we were there forward air controllers 118 00:09:22.159 --> 00:09:28.720 and they and we worked with the either US Special Forces or US Marine Advisors 119 00:09:28.879 --> 00:09:35.919 or the Australian Army Advisors, which are the Australian let's see what ATTV Australian 120 00:09:37.000 --> 00:09:41.919 Army Tachnical Training Team Vietnam. And actually I'm still in contact with one of 121 00:09:41.919 --> 00:09:46.480 those guys. But the base of the Fire Support Base base was getting overrun. 122 00:09:46.879 --> 00:09:52.120 We were covern at night and day. There was a Special Forces advisor 123 00:09:52.200 --> 00:09:56.240 with them, and we ended up talking to him quite a bit. We 124 00:09:56.360 --> 00:10:01.039 put in I think the h that for that se age over three days. 125 00:10:01.039 --> 00:10:07.039 I myself put in forty forty three air strikes one day twenty three and that 126 00:10:07.120 --> 00:10:13.039 was the day we finally broke the assault on it. And so they did, 127 00:10:13.080 --> 00:10:16.120 they got pushed off of it and then they reclaimed it at the end. 128 00:10:16.159 --> 00:10:24.440 But it was probably one of the more fierce firefights and um, you 129 00:10:24.480 --> 00:10:26.879 know things. But it was at the end of the war. It was 130 00:10:26.120 --> 00:10:33.679 that was April of May of seventy so the war was coming to a close. 131 00:10:33.240 --> 00:10:39.320 But it was it was you know, they wanted they wanted to push 132 00:10:39.360 --> 00:10:41.600 down on the DMZ in in seventy one seventy two they did. They put 133 00:10:41.639 --> 00:10:45.960 came right across the DMZ. So that was one of the first probes down 134 00:10:46.000 --> 00:10:48.960 there, and it was it was a fierce battle. They put brigade after 135 00:10:50.000 --> 00:10:56.159 brigade and battalion after battalion into that overrun that firebase and and unfortunately we lost 136 00:10:56.159 --> 00:11:01.120 to sell out of South Vietnamese. We lost a couple of advisers during that, 137 00:11:01.399 --> 00:11:03.559 uh that siege. What's it like to be in the middle of that. 138 00:11:03.759 --> 00:11:09.679 It was crazy, I mean, it was it was tents. It 139 00:11:09.799 --> 00:11:15.720 was. It was one of those things where there was It wasn't a moment 140 00:11:15.759 --> 00:11:18.559 where you didn't know that there was. You needed to be there. I 141 00:11:18.559 --> 00:11:26.000 mean we we were put in continuous air strikes, army, helicopter, gun 142 00:11:26.080 --> 00:11:33.759 ships, artillery. It was non stop activity. And uh and that whole 143 00:11:33.799 --> 00:11:37.720 time that the North Vietnamese were pouring across the dam Z and they set up 144 00:11:37.919 --> 00:11:43.440 fifty one cow guns all around the base and trying to shoot down the helicopters 145 00:11:43.480 --> 00:11:46.799 and in the forward air controllers and in the fighters and uh. And I'm 146 00:11:46.840 --> 00:11:52.440 talking to the to the special Forces captain I was talking with, and he's 147 00:11:52.519 --> 00:11:58.960 whispering because he's hunkered down in a in a tunnel or just a part of 148 00:11:58.000 --> 00:12:03.720 the fire sport basis still there. With what's left of the South Vietnamese. 149 00:12:03.320 --> 00:12:09.480 It was pretty tense. Fortunately he survived and the number of the South Vietnamese 150 00:12:09.519 --> 00:12:13.600 did, but there were casualty, large casualts on both sides. You were 151 00:12:13.600 --> 00:12:18.960 awarded a silver Star. The captain who was down there was put in for 152 00:12:18.960 --> 00:12:26.679 a silver Star. I knew him very well, Dave Dickinson, and and 153 00:12:26.080 --> 00:12:31.559 he in turn submitted me for a Silver Star. I was just you know, 154 00:12:31.600 --> 00:12:33.679 you don't go out there and that stuff. You right place, right 155 00:12:33.679 --> 00:12:39.440 time and doing the right thing. And fortunately we were he survived and we 156 00:12:39.440 --> 00:12:45.960 were able to save some of the South Vietnamese troops. And but that was 157 00:12:46.039 --> 00:12:50.120 the essence of that. I mean, everybody, everybody got involved in it. 158 00:12:50.159 --> 00:12:54.720 We put, like I said, three or four days of constant air 159 00:12:54.279 --> 00:13:00.360 and artillery and gun ship in there, and it was pretty amazing that he 160 00:13:00.480 --> 00:13:01.159 was, like I said, when I was talking to him, he was 161 00:13:01.200 --> 00:13:05.480 hunkered down in a tunnel someplace whishpern into, just like in the movies. 162 00:13:05.559 --> 00:13:09.000 And so, I mean, it was it was the real thing. And 163 00:13:09.480 --> 00:13:13.720 I still can still have a little few thoughts about that. George. Let's 164 00:13:13.720 --> 00:13:16.320 take a quick break. When we come back, we'll tell much more of 165 00:13:16.320 --> 00:13:20.840 your story here on Veterans Chronicles. Our guest is George Furkeys. He is 166 00:13:20.879 --> 00:13:24.320 a retired US Air Force colonel. When we come back, we'll talk about 167 00:13:24.320 --> 00:13:28.759 his role in Operation Eagle Claw, the attempt to rescue American hostages in Iran 168 00:13:28.080 --> 00:13:33.960 in nineteen eighty I'm Greg Corumbus. This is Veterans Chronicles. This is Veterans 169 00:13:35.039 --> 00:13:37.440 Chronicles. I'm Greg Corumbus. Honor to be joined today by George Furkeys. 170 00:13:37.799 --> 00:13:41.960 He has a retired US Air Force colonel. He is a Vietnam veteran. 171 00:13:43.000 --> 00:13:46.840 He is also a veteran of Operation Eagle Claw, that's the daring nineteen eighty 172 00:13:46.879 --> 00:13:52.360 mission designed to rescue American hostages in Iran. And so, George, before 173 00:13:52.360 --> 00:13:54.840 we get to that, just tell us a little bit about what you did 174 00:13:56.279 --> 00:14:01.399 after Vietnam and before Operation Eagle Claw, or what kind of assignments did you 175 00:14:01.440 --> 00:14:03.320 have in between. You know, after Vietnam, it was a boy. 176 00:14:03.399 --> 00:14:05.240 The time I got back here, you know, I was starting to roll 177 00:14:05.320 --> 00:14:09.879 down, and I did a little bit of flying at the Tinker Air Force 178 00:14:09.919 --> 00:14:13.000 Base. I was flying T T twenty nine at T thirty nine, supporting 179 00:14:13.080 --> 00:14:18.600 a maintenance teams that came out of there to the different places around uh the 180 00:14:18.720 --> 00:14:22.039 US for about three years doing that, and then the Latin the next three 181 00:14:22.120 --> 00:14:28.360 years. Since the Air Force was drawing down, I got I was assigned 182 00:14:28.360 --> 00:14:31.639 to the Rated Supplement. So for two of those three years I was in 183 00:14:31.720 --> 00:14:35.679 the Rated Supplement. I was a headquarters squadron section commander, learned all about 184 00:14:35.759 --> 00:14:41.559 taking care of the young troops and what first sergeants do to make the commander's 185 00:14:41.639 --> 00:14:45.279 job easier, and at that time there were a lot of drug things going 186 00:14:45.320 --> 00:14:50.240 on, so discipline was was a big issue. It taught me a lot 187 00:14:50.279 --> 00:14:56.600 about command and uh and discipline and you know, taking care of the young 188 00:14:56.639 --> 00:15:00.159 troops and what works and what doesn't work and uh. Fortunately I had a 189 00:15:00.759 --> 00:15:05.519 chief who was my first sergeant, and he taught me a lot about how 190 00:15:05.559 --> 00:15:09.559 to manage on and command and lead. And so I did that for two 191 00:15:09.600 --> 00:15:13.759 years and then last year I was the aide to the two start at Tinker 192 00:15:15.480 --> 00:15:20.080 and from there I went on to Combat Talents and Herbert Field. Well, 193 00:15:20.120 --> 00:15:24.480 the American hostages were taken on November fourth, nineteen seventy nine, and from 194 00:15:24.519 --> 00:15:28.480 what I've read, planning for a rescue started just a couple of days later. 195 00:15:28.120 --> 00:15:33.039 So at what point did you start hearing about plans for a mission? 196 00:15:33.279 --> 00:15:35.600 It bubbled up a little bit around the squadron that you know something was going 197 00:15:35.679 --> 00:15:41.159 on, and obviously they just opened the doors to everybody right away. The 198 00:15:41.200 --> 00:15:45.600 senior leadership and the squadron was sort of huddled up. You know, what 199 00:15:45.639 --> 00:15:46.840 we're going to do. What do they want us to do? Because I 200 00:15:46.879 --> 00:15:50.639 don't think they knew at that time exactly what the deal would do. But 201 00:15:50.720 --> 00:15:54.600 we had, you know, a state side. We were the only special 202 00:15:54.600 --> 00:16:02.200 operations see one squadron in the state side. We did had a squadron of 203 00:16:02.240 --> 00:16:07.279 gunships, but for infiltration expiltration, we're the only one. So we got 204 00:16:07.279 --> 00:16:11.639 initially tapped to do that. Started out with just our senior senior crew guys 205 00:16:11.679 --> 00:16:15.360 figuring out what we're going to do, and they're sitting behind closed doors and 206 00:16:15.759 --> 00:16:19.720 obviously it was going to be more than just a few of the senior instructors 207 00:16:19.720 --> 00:16:26.399 and evaluators, so they started forming former cruise. We ended up with the 208 00:16:27.240 --> 00:16:33.919 i think three crews full up cruise and some spares and some other special things 209 00:16:33.919 --> 00:16:37.879 that we were doing. So about three two thirds of the squadron was involved. 210 00:16:37.360 --> 00:16:44.120 But it was all very very kept, very very close hold. I 211 00:16:44.159 --> 00:16:48.159 mean, it was like you can't say a thing, and when when the 212 00:16:48.159 --> 00:16:51.480 boss brings you in, closes the door and said, I'm going to bring 213 00:16:51.480 --> 00:16:56.360 you on board. But here's the deal. Don't ask questions. You know, 214 00:16:56.879 --> 00:17:00.240 when you when you told do something, go do it. And that's 215 00:17:00.240 --> 00:17:06.519 when we got got acquainted with the night vision goggles and uh. But it 216 00:17:06.599 --> 00:17:11.839 was a it was a selection basically a selection process of of who wanted to 217 00:17:11.960 --> 00:17:15.079 who was ready to. I mean, obviously some of us had been We 218 00:17:15.079 --> 00:17:18.400 had some gunship guys had been flying AC went thirty gun ships in Vietnam. 219 00:17:18.519 --> 00:17:22.279 We had, you know, a missionash. Almost all the one thirty guys 220 00:17:22.359 --> 00:17:26.799 and had had been in Vietnam. I mean it was you know, only 221 00:17:26.839 --> 00:17:30.400 six or seven years since then that we'd quit flying over there. So it 222 00:17:30.440 --> 00:17:34.319 was fairly experienced a bunch of guys. But slowly we built the crews who 223 00:17:34.359 --> 00:17:37.960 was going to be on what And actually that even changed, you know, 224 00:17:37.000 --> 00:17:41.440 I started on one crew and ended up as a co pilot on the on 225 00:17:41.599 --> 00:17:44.400 the your first airpoint. Only by you know, that's just the way that 226 00:17:44.519 --> 00:17:47.880 the cards fell. How much experience had you had with the gun ships by 227 00:17:47.880 --> 00:17:52.640 this time I had my own experience with them, was was being associated a 228 00:17:52.680 --> 00:17:57.599 little bit with them in Vietnam A one thirties, we got the AC one 229 00:17:57.720 --> 00:18:03.039 nineteens or the forty seven's in country. The AC one thirties were all flying 230 00:18:03.200 --> 00:18:10.720 out country on the trail, supporting the trail facts out there and that sort 231 00:18:10.759 --> 00:18:12.440 of stuff. And most of them were coming out of fine out of time 232 00:18:12.599 --> 00:18:18.640 end. But Yeah, the gunship was awesome. Awesome weapons still is today. 233 00:18:18.240 --> 00:18:22.599 Now, this is an operation that involved four different branches of the military. 234 00:18:22.680 --> 00:18:26.599 Any turf wars in the planning process, Uh no, you know, 235 00:18:26.720 --> 00:18:30.720 we were too focused on just our little piece of it. We were probing 236 00:18:32.240 --> 00:18:34.519 brand new ground the whole time. I mean, we knew what our partner, 237 00:18:34.720 --> 00:18:38.359 but we knew that, we knew that the uh the rotary wing guys 238 00:18:38.440 --> 00:18:41.799 were, they were it was different for them. They didn't all come from 239 00:18:41.799 --> 00:18:45.039 the same unit they were. They were struggling with it. They didn't couldn't 240 00:18:45.039 --> 00:18:51.559 always make their roots and times on the on the on the practices we were 241 00:18:51.839 --> 00:18:55.000 doing, and you know, all of us, even even we had some 242 00:18:55.119 --> 00:18:57.119 issues when things went wrong. I mean, for example, one time we 243 00:18:57.720 --> 00:19:02.839 got a three ship of air planes going out all the way across the country 244 00:19:02.920 --> 00:19:08.119 and had to hit a casey one thirty five tankers to get it. Well, 245 00:19:08.839 --> 00:19:14.240 we take off, we get to the tanker route and no tankers. 246 00:19:15.440 --> 00:19:19.559 We had dedicated tankers for those, and so we turn around, where are 247 00:19:19.599 --> 00:19:22.799 they? Where are they? So by track it down we're headed back home. 248 00:19:22.839 --> 00:19:26.559 We find out the two tankers one of them had an issue, so 249 00:19:26.599 --> 00:19:30.920 the other one sympathetic aborted. We could have done it with one tanker and 250 00:19:30.960 --> 00:19:37.279 continued the training exercise and done at all, but now we had zero, 251 00:19:37.400 --> 00:19:40.039 so the whole thing crashed. So we'll think, you know, and it 252 00:19:40.160 --> 00:19:42.920 was like, why that never never happened again. In a matter of fact, 253 00:19:44.279 --> 00:19:48.079 I think they changed that leadership then. But those are the kinds of 254 00:19:48.119 --> 00:19:52.519 things you run, you know, just things that you don't come expect and 255 00:19:52.559 --> 00:19:55.480 then it happens, and you know, the process of learn how to fly 256 00:19:56.160 --> 00:20:00.400 on night vision goggles. It was an interesting one because you know, most 257 00:20:00.440 --> 00:20:07.200 of us hadn't seen night vision before. Now I'd seen it because we used 258 00:20:07.480 --> 00:20:11.759 starlight scopes out of the fort the forward air controller at night, and the 259 00:20:11.839 --> 00:20:15.920 guys on the trail used them every night. And basically it was a sighting 260 00:20:15.960 --> 00:20:21.240 device for a recoilist rifle is about this big and weighed about twenty pounds, 261 00:20:21.240 --> 00:20:23.599 and you had putting on a strap and hung out the side of the the 262 00:20:23.799 --> 00:20:30.519 O two and looked at for lights and that would actually you could see those 263 00:20:30.559 --> 00:20:34.359 stin lights of the of the North Vietnamese trucks going down the trail. And 264 00:20:34.400 --> 00:20:37.119 that was one of the one of the ways they found them, and we 265 00:20:37.240 --> 00:20:41.960 had one in our little element of to use at night if we need it. 266 00:20:42.039 --> 00:20:45.640 So I'd seen it a couple of times. But then you get them 267 00:20:45.640 --> 00:20:48.480 and we've got the full face goggles on, and I'm saying, I've seen 268 00:20:48.559 --> 00:20:53.000 this picture before. Oh yeah, I remember when. But but putting it 269 00:20:53.039 --> 00:20:57.799 on your face, putting in the cockpit, which is the cockpits lights are 270 00:20:59.480 --> 00:21:02.160 made so you can see them with the naked eye. You put on the 271 00:21:02.240 --> 00:21:04.279 night vision goggles and they just blow them out. They basically shut them down. 272 00:21:04.319 --> 00:21:11.039 So that process, I mean, every night we're learning new things about 273 00:21:11.079 --> 00:21:14.119 it. What light we have to tape over, and how many layers of 274 00:21:14.160 --> 00:21:15.319 tape we have to put out, how long it's going to take to do 275 00:21:15.400 --> 00:21:18.480 this stuff before we can't even go fly with it. We're going out and 276 00:21:18.519 --> 00:21:22.079 walking around with them, We're you know, we're taking them home and sleeping 277 00:21:22.160 --> 00:21:27.599 with them. I mean, it's it was a huge step forward and we 278 00:21:27.680 --> 00:21:30.240 did, you know, and actually it wasn't wasn't one big step. It 279 00:21:30.279 --> 00:21:37.160 was little baby steps. And so in the other unit that participated over in 280 00:21:37.119 --> 00:21:41.839 the Pacific, they had they got some also, and they were doing it 281 00:21:41.119 --> 00:21:45.200 parallel to us, but not necessarily in the same step. So when we 282 00:21:45.240 --> 00:21:48.319 came together, it was what are you guys doing or how do you have 283 00:21:48.359 --> 00:21:52.599 a set up? And finally we got meshed together and we all did it 284 00:21:52.640 --> 00:21:55.720 the same way by the time we were heading down to to do the admission. 285 00:21:56.480 --> 00:22:00.440 And to this day there's still you know, they've got beautiful new goggles 286 00:22:00.440 --> 00:22:06.880 and they're still learning ways to the cockpits are now vg comal compatible. Even 287 00:22:06.880 --> 00:22:08.839 the fighters should have done this, I mean it was. It was a 288 00:22:10.440 --> 00:22:15.440 leading in technology then, but we were doing it without a well, without 289 00:22:15.440 --> 00:22:18.839 the scientists, without all the R and D. We were just doing it 290 00:22:18.880 --> 00:22:22.279 by sitting out and the we'd take the air points on at night and sit 291 00:22:22.359 --> 00:22:26.400 out on a ramp and just fiddle with lights and the see what worked and 292 00:22:26.480 --> 00:22:30.160 what didn't. When we come back, we'll talk about the mission itself. 293 00:22:30.200 --> 00:22:33.279 George, let's pause one more time. Here we're talking with George Ferkeys, 294 00:22:33.359 --> 00:22:37.200 retired US Air Force colonel. He is a veteran of Vietnam, recipient of 295 00:22:37.240 --> 00:22:41.680 the Silver Star, and veteran of Operation Eagle Claw, the nineteen eighty mission 296 00:22:41.720 --> 00:22:45.000 designed to rescue American hostages in Iran. And we'll talk much more about that 297 00:22:45.039 --> 00:22:51.559 when we come back. I'm Greg Corumbas and this is Veterans Chronicles. This 298 00:22:51.680 --> 00:22:55.400 is Veterans Chronicles. I'm Greg Corrumbus. I'm honored to be joined today by 299 00:22:55.440 --> 00:22:59.079 George Ferkeys. He has a retired US Air Force colonel. He's a veteran 300 00:22:59.119 --> 00:23:03.119 of Vietnam who's more than three decades in uniform. And he was also a 301 00:23:03.160 --> 00:23:07.160 significant part of Operation Eagle Claw, the nineteen eighty mission designed to rescue American 302 00:23:07.200 --> 00:23:12.359 hostages in Iran and sou George. This was I've called it a daring mission. 303 00:23:12.400 --> 00:23:18.079 There were so many different components to it. So explain if you can, 304 00:23:18.799 --> 00:23:21.400 what the design of the plan was, How was it supposed to go? 305 00:23:22.079 --> 00:23:26.039 Well, the design of the plan when the final plan was after many 306 00:23:26.119 --> 00:23:34.000 different well, I say possibilities, because we had no eyes on the target 307 00:23:34.039 --> 00:23:40.079 we had we had no friends in Iran, so we were there were no 308 00:23:40.160 --> 00:23:45.279 friendly airfields to go into and the distances were huge. So the final plan 309 00:23:45.480 --> 00:23:52.519 was to do a landing of six airplane six C one thirties at a desert 310 00:23:52.599 --> 00:23:57.160 landing strip that was not really an airfield but a just basically a hard packed 311 00:23:57.200 --> 00:24:03.920 area that had been surveyed a clandestine mission to make sure that would take the 312 00:24:03.920 --> 00:24:07.839 weight of the airplanes and there was no obstacles in it, and that was 313 00:24:07.920 --> 00:24:14.079 known as Desert one. So the plan was for the six airplanes, three 314 00:24:14.359 --> 00:24:18.640 MC one thirties which were special Ops airplanes, and three borrowed airplanes that had 315 00:24:18.680 --> 00:24:22.880 big cargo compartments but also had avery fueling capability, which we needed. They 316 00:24:22.920 --> 00:24:26.839 were EC one thirties, but they were flown by special Ops crews, so 317 00:24:26.880 --> 00:24:33.000 we had in those aircraft. We had the Delta force was in three of 318 00:24:33.000 --> 00:24:38.279 the they were in the MC one thirties and in the EC one thirties we 319 00:24:38.359 --> 00:24:44.559 had the fuel bladders with the h that we called them far forward Airy fueling 320 00:24:44.880 --> 00:24:48.359 crews, so and their job was to set up a forward every fueling point 321 00:24:48.440 --> 00:24:53.759 for the six. So actually it was supposed to be eight Navy helicopters flown 322 00:24:53.799 --> 00:25:00.480 by a mix of Navy, Air Force and Marine pilots and crew off a 323 00:25:00.599 --> 00:25:07.000 carrier and fly and rendezvous at Desert one. The helicopters would be refueled, 324 00:25:08.759 --> 00:25:15.440 the troops would be cross loaded to the helicopters. They would take off and 325 00:25:15.480 --> 00:25:19.599 go to a hide sight for night one. That see one thirties. All 326 00:25:19.640 --> 00:25:29.119 of us would depart Desert one and go back to massirah Oman and then the 327 00:25:29.240 --> 00:25:33.640 Night two would start. Some of some of the Night one crews would transition 328 00:25:33.720 --> 00:25:40.000 to Egypt and fly Night two. So that was that was, and that 329 00:25:40.079 --> 00:25:44.319 became known as Desert one, and it was a it was like I said, 330 00:25:44.359 --> 00:25:48.880 it was a barren piece of ground that had been looked at prior when 331 00:25:49.920 --> 00:25:55.039 we made the decision to do that with. Our plan was for for lead 332 00:25:55.079 --> 00:26:00.319 airplane, which I was a co pilot on, would be a good our 333 00:26:00.400 --> 00:26:04.200 head of the other five airplanes. We would make the approach and land on 334 00:26:04.319 --> 00:26:11.440 this desert area which had been surveyed. And also they had buried some ir 335 00:26:11.880 --> 00:26:18.400 lights that could be triggered to pop up out of the ground. And that 336 00:26:18.480 --> 00:26:21.880 was the first thing. So we kind of as we made our cross of 337 00:26:21.920 --> 00:26:25.920 the I came in found found the area. We had very good radar, 338 00:26:26.079 --> 00:26:30.640 very good navigators. We found the area. So it was a moment of 339 00:26:32.119 --> 00:26:36.640 well should I say, you know what was going to happen. We take 340 00:26:36.680 --> 00:26:40.200 out the overhead escape patch which you can do on a one thirty, took 341 00:26:40.200 --> 00:26:47.200 out the antenna to the the vice and hit the switch and the lights came 342 00:26:47.240 --> 00:26:49.319 on so we could see it. We knew there was a box one, 343 00:26:49.440 --> 00:26:52.359 two, three, four and at the end of the boxing one is what 344 00:26:52.400 --> 00:26:56.920 we called it, and it was set up, so we knew we had 345 00:26:56.960 --> 00:26:59.839 the right place. We knew we had a place that had been surveyed. 346 00:27:00.240 --> 00:27:04.039 So we now we make our circuit to come back around and land, and 347 00:27:04.079 --> 00:27:08.440 it took us three more times before we landed, because one time we were 348 00:27:08.440 --> 00:27:11.839 misaligned, another time there was traffic coming down there. It came down there. 349 00:27:11.880 --> 00:27:17.519 So we've been across it now three times and we have delta for in 350 00:27:17.599 --> 00:27:21.440 the back, so they're they're getting nancy because it was supposed to be only 351 00:27:21.440 --> 00:27:27.440 just one time around in land. So we landed and when when we came 352 00:27:27.480 --> 00:27:32.279 down, you know, it put down pretty pretty firmly, and all of 353 00:27:32.319 --> 00:27:40.000 a sudden there's dust everywhere. And in route to the Desert one, we 354 00:27:40.039 --> 00:27:45.720 had experienced suspended dust in the air, and we went through about two sections 355 00:27:45.759 --> 00:27:48.559 of it, and we were I was sitting at the copilot and I'm looking 356 00:27:48.559 --> 00:27:52.759 out there and it's got dusty, it got a real hot and we're looking 357 00:27:52.799 --> 00:27:57.079 around. I'm sort of talking on the intercommon the airplane and what is it? 358 00:27:57.119 --> 00:28:02.720 What's going on? And then actually the guy that put in those lights 359 00:28:02.839 --> 00:28:07.400 with the with the clandestinely said, oh, that's a haboob. We're going 360 00:28:07.440 --> 00:28:12.759 on. What's a haboob? And it's a big cloud of suspended dust and 361 00:28:14.400 --> 00:28:18.000 that different from a sandstorm. It's the same as except it's real, real 362 00:28:18.079 --> 00:28:21.519 fine. Okay, I mean it stays in the air. Sand sands is 363 00:28:21.559 --> 00:28:25.920 heavier and bigger. It's it's like talcum powder. It is that fine. 364 00:28:26.839 --> 00:28:30.559 So so we went through two areas of it, and by the time we 365 00:28:30.599 --> 00:28:34.240 got to the landing area it was clear. Little did we know that was 366 00:28:34.960 --> 00:28:40.200 also covered this deep. It's like about five six inches of it all over, 367 00:28:40.359 --> 00:28:44.920 maybe in some places where it drifted a foot or more. So when 368 00:28:44.960 --> 00:28:48.519 we landed the airplane and put it put the props in reverse to slow down, 369 00:28:48.559 --> 00:28:53.400 it just completely covers the airplane in this huge cloud of dust. And 370 00:28:53.440 --> 00:28:57.400 we're going, oh, no, you know, we got and we lowered 371 00:28:57.400 --> 00:29:04.119 the ramp and the guards go out. The team goes out, and I'm 372 00:29:04.119 --> 00:29:08.079 talking on the intercom to the loadmaster and back he said, you won't believe 373 00:29:08.079 --> 00:29:12.440 it. And it's it is over my boots. I said, what's over 374 00:29:12.480 --> 00:29:15.400 your boots? He said, the dust. The dust is over, So 375 00:29:15.440 --> 00:29:22.359 that's how deep it was, and that, in the end was one of 376 00:29:22.400 --> 00:29:26.759 the reasons that we probably the main reason we had the accident later on. 377 00:29:26.279 --> 00:29:30.119 So now we've we get there, we set up the other side of the 378 00:29:30.200 --> 00:29:34.279 runway. Because we have the special tactics, guys with us can set up 379 00:29:34.319 --> 00:29:37.559 another one way just like the one we landed on the box and one, 380 00:29:37.880 --> 00:29:42.640 so now we have two of them. They also set out a portable navigation 381 00:29:44.720 --> 00:29:48.720 called a tac an and they set that up and powered that up, so 382 00:29:48.759 --> 00:29:55.759 now there is a navigation aid as well as a two runways. So now 383 00:29:55.759 --> 00:29:59.480 the other five airplanes come in and the sequence that we want. We got 384 00:29:59.519 --> 00:30:02.839 six air planes on the ground. We're ready to go, waiting for the 385 00:30:02.839 --> 00:30:06.799 helicopters. Helicopters are supposed to be like twenty minutes or thirty minutes behind us. 386 00:30:06.799 --> 00:30:08.440 We know they're airborne. We can hear them, but we can't talk 387 00:30:08.480 --> 00:30:14.400 to them, so we're waiting for him. We set up the forward every 388 00:30:14.400 --> 00:30:18.880 feeling points. We're all set to go of everything seems to be going good. 389 00:30:18.960 --> 00:30:22.880 Unfortunately, when we landed, I sort of should have hit this beginning 390 00:30:22.920 --> 00:30:27.319 when we landed. Just as we rolled out, a Iranian bus full of 391 00:30:27.559 --> 00:30:33.720 tourists comes down the road and the security guys stopped it, and so we 392 00:30:33.839 --> 00:30:40.839 now have forty Iranians under guard. We aren't sure what we're going to do 393 00:30:40.839 --> 00:30:44.000 with them. We got to work that out. One of the thoughts was 394 00:30:44.000 --> 00:30:45.720 we'd take them back with us and then night to take them to the other 395 00:30:45.759 --> 00:30:51.640 place and drop them off. But we would have figured it out before. 396 00:30:51.839 --> 00:30:56.119 It's not all the airplanes got down. A rogue fuel truck came down the 397 00:30:56.200 --> 00:31:00.279 road and we had road guards out. You know, they're trying to stop 398 00:31:00.359 --> 00:31:04.799 him. He didn't stop, so they so they launched a law which is 399 00:31:04.839 --> 00:31:08.440 a like a little rocket, blew him up. So now we have a 400 00:31:08.519 --> 00:31:14.440 huge fire. So we got a fire, we got a bus, we 401 00:31:14.559 --> 00:31:18.039 have the runways set up, we got dust up to our knees. But 402 00:31:18.160 --> 00:31:21.720 we're still a go. There's no reason why we can't make this work. 403 00:31:21.759 --> 00:31:26.359 Because the guys on the truck jumped off the truck and there was a little 404 00:31:26.359 --> 00:31:29.640 pickup behind him. It was a big tanker truck and it's burning like crazy. 405 00:31:30.119 --> 00:31:33.039 There was a little pickup behind him. They run back to that and 406 00:31:33.079 --> 00:31:37.440 off they go. And the intel guys that were there said, you know, 407 00:31:37.480 --> 00:31:41.039 they're probably black market fuel guys. They probably aren't going to go tell 408 00:31:41.079 --> 00:31:45.839 anybody, So we'll roll the dice and let that go. We aren't going 409 00:31:45.920 --> 00:31:52.000 to go chase him down. We'll probably never find him anyway. So that's 410 00:31:52.079 --> 00:31:57.400 the scenario of that's the picture of the of the Desert One with the fuel 411 00:31:57.440 --> 00:32:02.160 truck burning, the two venway set up, the six airplanes on the ground 412 00:32:02.480 --> 00:32:07.480 waiting for the helicopters to come in, and we also with the with the 413 00:32:07.480 --> 00:32:14.640 portable Native aid. So helicopters come limping in. They've they've had issues holding 414 00:32:14.720 --> 00:32:19.480 formation, they're flying little level. They through the hubbub, they're down too. 415 00:32:19.519 --> 00:32:22.200 By the time they get there, they're down to six helicopters. We 416 00:32:22.319 --> 00:32:27.440 need six to do the mission. Six have to leave the night one Desert 417 00:32:27.440 --> 00:32:32.240 One before they can continue on the mission. So we finally get six down 418 00:32:32.240 --> 00:32:37.839 there by then says the lead airplane, we left to make room for him. 419 00:32:37.920 --> 00:32:40.559 So we had taken off just after I think the sixth airplane got there. 420 00:32:42.319 --> 00:32:45.319 We're out of the way, we're going home, and we're calms out. 421 00:32:45.400 --> 00:32:50.680 We don't we aren't. We aren't underground. But that started the whole 422 00:32:50.960 --> 00:32:58.440 whole process of finding out that one of those six helicopters not fliable. It's 423 00:32:58.480 --> 00:33:01.599 got a hydraulic problem. Main hydraulic pump is out and it's not good to 424 00:33:01.599 --> 00:33:06.240 fly with this one. Whatever the issue, was not going to tell the 425 00:33:06.279 --> 00:33:08.200 helicopter guys, but you know, anyway, they made the decision it was 426 00:33:08.240 --> 00:33:13.640 not fliable. So now they're down to five and the ground forces. You 427 00:33:13.640 --> 00:33:15.920 know, we cannot do this mission with just five. We have to leave 428 00:33:15.960 --> 00:33:19.680 here with six. Is there any way you can fix it? Obviously they 429 00:33:19.680 --> 00:33:23.200 went through all the possibilities, etc. The other two one had stopped and 430 00:33:23.400 --> 00:33:28.839 left in the desert on the way because of a bad rotor blade, and 431 00:33:28.920 --> 00:33:30.799 one of them had turned back and gone to God, back to the carrier 432 00:33:31.000 --> 00:33:38.680 because he was disoriented and couldn't couldn't fly anymore. So we by then the 433 00:33:38.759 --> 00:33:45.920 mission has been scrubbed. The decision was made reluctantly that we're gonna have to 434 00:33:45.000 --> 00:33:53.720 call it off. So we started re transloading and reconfiguring to leave desert one 435 00:33:54.720 --> 00:34:00.480 and moving helicopters around and see where everybody's going to go. And as we 436 00:34:00.480 --> 00:34:07.400 were moving one of the helicopters. Uh it lifted off from behind one of 437 00:34:07.400 --> 00:34:10.079 the EC one thirties that came up, hit the tail and rolled over on 438 00:34:10.159 --> 00:34:14.559 the top of it. We lost the three five guys in the cockpit and 439 00:34:14.760 --> 00:34:20.119 three off the helicopter. That's eight guys that we lost there. And we 440 00:34:20.119 --> 00:34:22.960 were airborne during that time frame, and we were we were communications out. 441 00:34:23.000 --> 00:34:28.239 We didn't we weren't talking to them. We were really we being the first 442 00:34:28.280 --> 00:34:32.239 airplane, we didn't find out till we landed back at Massirah just as we 443 00:34:32.000 --> 00:34:37.039 we were found out the missions have been canceled and that we lost eight guys 444 00:34:37.880 --> 00:34:43.960 and it was devastating. So we you know, got off the airplane, 445 00:34:44.000 --> 00:34:46.840 waited for the other guys come back. There were casualties. By then the 446 00:34:47.519 --> 00:34:55.719 whole process started. We got airback one forty ones in there to take care 447 00:34:55.719 --> 00:35:01.079 of the burnt guys that had burns on them and get the uh the depth 448 00:35:01.159 --> 00:35:05.920 force out of there. And it was you know, didn't just you didn't. 449 00:35:06.000 --> 00:35:13.480 You don't just stop and just quit. You gotta finish it. So 450 00:35:13.719 --> 00:35:19.280 we you know, lift our wounds, got got got everybody taken care of 451 00:35:19.320 --> 00:35:28.239 that we could had a got everybody together had a roll call, identified officially 452 00:35:28.239 --> 00:35:36.239 who was who is missing from our Air Force crews and uh and then started 453 00:35:36.239 --> 00:35:39.679 packing up and getting ready to come home. That was that was it. 454 00:35:40.960 --> 00:35:46.400 That was a mission was scrubbed. Obviously, George, I can see the 455 00:35:46.400 --> 00:35:52.559 emotion still on your face and your voice as you discussed that. And obviously 456 00:35:52.639 --> 00:35:58.760 you're very desirous to free these Americans who are in Iran. So how do 457 00:35:58.840 --> 00:36:01.880 you go on not only from the fact that the mission had to be called 458 00:36:01.880 --> 00:36:06.960 off, but that you lost those eight personnel. You sort of get back 459 00:36:06.960 --> 00:36:09.960 into the mode that you know you were taught to do. You go back 460 00:36:09.960 --> 00:36:12.840 and you know, you know, you gotta get the airplanes home. You 461 00:36:12.880 --> 00:36:15.400 got to get back to your families, you have, you got to take 462 00:36:15.440 --> 00:36:22.960 care of those other families, got to bury your buddies, and then you 463 00:36:22.039 --> 00:36:28.719 know what's next. And there was something next. You know, we said, 464 00:36:28.800 --> 00:36:32.360 you know, we're gonna gonna do continue to perfect us, you know, 465 00:36:32.480 --> 00:36:37.239 try to try to get them home. So we had called an Operation 466 00:36:37.320 --> 00:36:42.719 Honey Badger, and the armada was huge, but we were still involved. 467 00:36:42.760 --> 00:36:46.039 We were still the leading MC one thirties. We're leading the way and some 468 00:36:46.119 --> 00:36:51.119 kind of seizure and it was now the whole nation is going on, My 469 00:36:51.119 --> 00:36:52.719 goodness, you know, why didn't we have this? Why didn't we have 470 00:36:52.800 --> 00:36:58.239 that? And you know Defense Department's going you know what all do you want 471 00:36:59.039 --> 00:37:01.519 the why didn't we got to have this in beforehand? And you know they 472 00:37:01.639 --> 00:37:07.079 stood up the Army, UH, Special Obs Aviation and um the whole deal 473 00:37:07.119 --> 00:37:12.800 with you know lots and then we had the Holloway Commission that examined it in 474 00:37:13.000 --> 00:37:17.199 detail. We all got to say, say a few things so that most 475 00:37:17.239 --> 00:37:21.679 of that was pretty straightforward if you read it. Deal. They had a 476 00:37:21.719 --> 00:37:25.880 few few conclusions, most of which I agreed with. Some they were I 477 00:37:25.960 --> 00:37:34.840 think political, but they but it changed. It changed how we're how the 478 00:37:34.960 --> 00:37:40.920 um US Defenses Department is organized. It started to joint Special Operations Command, 479 00:37:42.320 --> 00:37:46.920 and it's set up the Army, Navy, and Air Force Special Operations Commands 480 00:37:46.960 --> 00:37:52.199 and the United States Special Operations Command down to Tampa. All that was a 481 00:37:52.239 --> 00:38:00.679 result of the Evil Claude Desert Won mission failure. I want to bring up 482 00:38:00.679 --> 00:38:04.159 a couple of reactions to the mission, one of which I know you know 483 00:38:04.199 --> 00:38:07.440 about. In one you probably don't, but you might. First of all, 484 00:38:07.599 --> 00:38:09.840 tell us about the message and the gift you got from British commanders. 485 00:38:10.199 --> 00:38:19.320 Oh, yes, that's to this day. It's a I guess I bad 486 00:38:19.360 --> 00:38:25.960 you, honor. So we're going through the process of of licking our wounds, 487 00:38:25.960 --> 00:38:30.440 if you will, trying to figure out what we're gonna do, where 488 00:38:30.440 --> 00:38:34.960 we're gonna go, how you know, starting to get our gear together and 489 00:38:35.000 --> 00:38:39.679 head home, and little British jeep pulls up besides one of the tents I 490 00:38:39.719 --> 00:38:44.920 mean you t flap was halfway up, and you see these two men get 491 00:38:44.920 --> 00:38:47.639 out and these two legs come over here and they pop down two cases of 492 00:38:49.519 --> 00:38:52.960 didn't know at time, but two cases of cold beer, and they get 493 00:38:52.960 --> 00:38:55.159 back in their jeep and go. They don't say anything, and somebody said, 494 00:38:55.199 --> 00:38:58.679 hey, but oh we got cold beer. And then on the flap 495 00:38:58.719 --> 00:39:02.480 of it, it's from us all to you all for having the guts to 496 00:39:02.639 --> 00:39:09.239 drive. What a gesture. I'm going to tell you one more about four 497 00:39:09.280 --> 00:39:14.360 years ago I spoke with one of the Iranian hostages. His name was Kevin 498 00:39:14.400 --> 00:39:17.039 Hermaning. He was a young marine guard at the embassy when it was overrun, 499 00:39:17.679 --> 00:39:21.920 and I talked to him around the fortieth anniversary of him and the others 500 00:39:21.960 --> 00:39:25.199 being taken hostage. And as we got towards the end of the conversation, 501 00:39:25.239 --> 00:39:30.119 I asked him what it was like to come home to this rapturous welcome from 502 00:39:30.119 --> 00:39:32.679 the American people. And when I asked him about that, he said, 503 00:39:32.679 --> 00:39:37.760 as nice as that was, it was the men on Eagle Claw who are 504 00:39:37.760 --> 00:39:40.960 the ones who deserved it the most. And here's what he said, it's 505 00:39:42.000 --> 00:39:45.400 the three Marines and the five airmen who gave their lives selflessly so that we 506 00:39:45.480 --> 00:39:51.400 might be freed. Just the very idea that people will step up to volunteer 507 00:39:52.199 --> 00:39:57.519 to rescue people they don't know because they consider it their duty and their responsibility 508 00:39:58.039 --> 00:40:00.880 and they love their fellow man. It's something that has stayed with me for 509 00:40:00.880 --> 00:40:06.840 forty years. What do you think of when you hear that kind of appreciation, 510 00:40:07.039 --> 00:40:09.360 Well, you know I have. I have met Kevin on a number 511 00:40:09.400 --> 00:40:15.280 of occasions. We've had him down here for as a speaker at our memorial 512 00:40:15.320 --> 00:40:21.920 dinner, and he is a super dude, is a super troop. He 513 00:40:22.039 --> 00:40:28.519 supports us continues to this day. And in those those words obviously made a 514 00:40:28.519 --> 00:40:34.199 lot to me and to all of us that are involved, and and they're 515 00:40:34.199 --> 00:40:37.159 from his heart. I know that I've played golf with him, I've you 516 00:40:37.159 --> 00:40:40.519 know, drank beer with him, and he is Yeah. I mean, 517 00:40:40.519 --> 00:40:45.119 there's it's hard hard to say anything else. Just a few minutes left in 518 00:40:45.119 --> 00:40:51.719 our conversation here, George. After Eagle Claw and the preparations that went into 519 00:40:52.239 --> 00:40:55.400 Operation Honey Badger, um, there were other operations you were part of, 520 00:40:55.400 --> 00:41:00.119 and including Granada and then a couple other major headline that folks may remember from 521 00:41:00.159 --> 00:41:06.039 the eighties when twa flight A forty seven was hijacked and the cruise ship A 522 00:41:06.159 --> 00:41:10.840 chille Laro was hijacked. You were involved in planning responses to all three of 523 00:41:10.840 --> 00:41:15.360 those. So yeah, I mean after we finished Honey Badger, I went 524 00:41:15.360 --> 00:41:19.360 off to Internet at Service School for a little bit and then came back and 525 00:41:19.480 --> 00:41:24.239 was a in the J three Air Shop up at Operational Airshop at Jaysack. 526 00:41:24.840 --> 00:41:30.559 Spent three three years. There was the early days of Jaysok. Those three 527 00:41:30.599 --> 00:41:36.880 events happened. We were busy day and night. We were not only real 528 00:41:36.880 --> 00:41:42.519 world but also trying to do training and new equipment, I mean, the 529 00:41:42.599 --> 00:41:45.400 whole gamut. And it was one of the I mean, it really was 530 00:41:45.480 --> 00:41:51.519 an exciting time. I mean money was not an issue. No, there 531 00:41:51.559 --> 00:41:53.440 were no barriers. If there was a barrier, we found a way around 532 00:41:53.480 --> 00:41:58.800 it. We'd either climb over or blow it down, you know. And 533 00:41:58.880 --> 00:42:02.760 it was the beginning of of the jointness for the whole Department of Defense. 534 00:42:05.519 --> 00:42:12.400 I remember Grenada. I mean we put together the whole uh what we called 535 00:42:12.440 --> 00:42:16.920 the execution Checklist, the sequence of events, and General Schults went up to 536 00:42:19.480 --> 00:42:23.360 brief the Chairman and the Joint Chiefs and came back. We were all ready 537 00:42:23.400 --> 00:42:27.559 to go. We were putting it all together, and he turns to us, 538 00:42:27.559 --> 00:42:32.159 he said, not so fast, guys. We're moving the eah hour 539 00:42:32.639 --> 00:42:37.480 ahead. I think it was one hour. So it's a daylight because the 540 00:42:37.559 --> 00:42:42.719 Marines have been told, have asked to play, and the Joint Chiefs says 541 00:42:42.719 --> 00:42:45.639 that they will play, and they had not been in any of the planning. 542 00:42:45.000 --> 00:42:51.920 So here we are. I've got two hundred sheets of the Execution Checklist, 543 00:42:51.960 --> 00:42:54.639 which has got three hundred events on it, each of them with a 544 00:42:54.719 --> 00:43:00.360 code word, and it's getting ready to go on the airport to the cruise 545 00:43:00.440 --> 00:43:05.039 down in the Savannah. I think they were picking up the rangers down there. 546 00:43:06.440 --> 00:43:09.559 So I grabbed it grabbed it, I said, burn knees, grabbed 547 00:43:09.599 --> 00:43:15.119 the grabbed the master, putting on the top, changed the eh hour plus 548 00:43:15.159 --> 00:43:20.440 one hour, make an adjustments as required. Put they flapped it onto him. 549 00:43:20.480 --> 00:43:23.559 Made you know, five hundred new copies. The airplane sitting out there 550 00:43:23.559 --> 00:43:27.360 on the ramp, did them put them on that and off we go. 551 00:43:27.960 --> 00:43:34.199 And then obviously the uh the the drop. I knew the guys flying the 552 00:43:34.239 --> 00:43:38.599 cruise that did the drop on the on the on the airfield. And my 553 00:43:38.679 --> 00:43:45.280 good friend Jim Hopson made the air drop after the first one aboarded, and 554 00:43:45.519 --> 00:43:50.199 I got the got the Air Force Award for that and got those gay dropped 555 00:43:50.239 --> 00:43:53.679 him I think at five hundred feet I mean right underneath the guns. I 556 00:43:53.760 --> 00:44:00.119 mean it was. It was an exciting adventurer and I mean it's like grenade, 557 00:44:00.159 --> 00:44:05.159 but it's I was at I visited Grenada later and they have a different 558 00:44:05.199 --> 00:44:07.840 story at how it all went, but anyway, it was. I mean, 559 00:44:07.840 --> 00:44:10.280 those are the kinds of things. I mean A twa forty seven. 560 00:44:10.599 --> 00:44:15.400 Uh No, it's Achille Laurel. So we've got force deployed all over the 561 00:44:15.440 --> 00:44:20.519 med most of them are at Acritari. We got two one forty one's full 562 00:44:20.519 --> 00:44:27.440 of troops. I'm at Sigonella as the liaison to the Navy base there because 563 00:44:27.480 --> 00:44:29.679 we've been staging out of there. We had a couple of I think a 564 00:44:29.760 --> 00:44:31.559 squad of seals were still there. They were headed home. So who were 565 00:44:31.559 --> 00:44:35.519 sitting around watching this? And then you know, oh no, Now they're 566 00:44:35.559 --> 00:44:39.480 on an airplane coming out of Egypt. And I'm talking to the bosses telling 567 00:44:39.480 --> 00:44:44.519 me, okay, but we've got a plan. They're gonna the Navy is 568 00:44:44.559 --> 00:44:50.559 going to force that airplane down at Sigonella. Okay, And he says, 569 00:44:50.960 --> 00:44:53.440 make sure it doesn't take off and we will will be right behind it in 570 00:44:53.480 --> 00:44:59.239 the one forty one. He's teld me this on them, you know radio. 571 00:45:00.079 --> 00:45:05.039 Okay, So I go. I briefed the beef to the base and 572 00:45:05.079 --> 00:45:08.320 they said okay, and and the and I said then to the seal h 573 00:45:08.840 --> 00:45:12.480 platoon commander, I said, okay, you guys, you guys are going 574 00:45:12.480 --> 00:45:15.800 to be the first one on the airplane because that one forty one can't get 575 00:45:15.800 --> 00:45:21.360 the shooters off in time. You'll have to to be there with the vehicles 576 00:45:21.400 --> 00:45:27.480 to take it down. It was a corporate jet, okay. So they 577 00:45:27.519 --> 00:45:30.760 said, we need some help though. I said, what's up? He 578 00:45:30.800 --> 00:45:35.320 says, our everything is packed away into connects, all our weapons, all 579 00:45:35.360 --> 00:45:39.079 our gear. So okay. So I turned to the to the deputy I 580 00:45:39.119 --> 00:45:42.960 was working with there, and I said, I need guns and I need 581 00:45:43.079 --> 00:45:45.760 vehicles. He said, you got him. So he brings out. He 582 00:45:45.159 --> 00:45:49.000 goes over the marine barracks, He gets all the all the weapons of the 583 00:45:49.039 --> 00:45:52.800 seals need. He goes to the to the airfield said what what weapons do 584 00:45:52.840 --> 00:45:57.239 you or what the vehicles do you want? I want all these step vans 585 00:45:57.239 --> 00:46:00.480 because we can drive him out on the airfield. And they know these guys 586 00:46:00.480 --> 00:46:04.280 are trained to do this, and so they got them all lined up. 587 00:46:04.280 --> 00:46:07.199 They're getting ready to it. And and I'm looking over there and here's this, 588 00:46:07.199 --> 00:46:09.800 this young lieutenant. He's got the butt of the rifles of boom boom 589 00:46:09.840 --> 00:46:15.119 for all them. Every light on that that vehicle is broken out. And 590 00:46:15.159 --> 00:46:17.760 I said, well, what's going on? He says, we don't have 591 00:46:17.840 --> 00:46:21.559 time to find diffuse this for him, and we have we're going out with 592 00:46:21.760 --> 00:46:24.599 him. We have to have the lights out. So I mean, those 593 00:46:24.639 --> 00:46:30.840 are the kinds of things you remember from from those kinds of operations. So 594 00:46:30.880 --> 00:46:34.360 the guys in the one forty one that they were in them for hours and 595 00:46:32.840 --> 00:46:37.840 the remember and the boss finally said, General Stinify said, quit bringing them 596 00:46:37.880 --> 00:46:45.360 food. There's no place for him to poop. And then and finally the 597 00:46:45.320 --> 00:46:50.000 corporate jet took off and um no, it was actually I'm sorry it was 598 00:46:50.039 --> 00:46:52.679 the seven seven twenty seven, seven thirty seven. It took off and they 599 00:46:52.719 --> 00:46:57.199 followed it in a T thirty nine, the Navy T thirty nine. They 600 00:46:57.239 --> 00:47:00.960 had three of our jay Saw guys on it, and they're following them and 601 00:47:00.320 --> 00:47:06.079 headed back to Italy off the boat and they're gonna go I end up in 602 00:47:06.119 --> 00:47:09.880 Yugoslavia. So they're up near Rome and the T thirty nine two navy pilots 603 00:47:09.880 --> 00:47:14.280 and got three of the Jasak guys in there, and they're hoping they can 604 00:47:14.360 --> 00:47:17.440 get him to land and they'll arrest them or whatever. So out there, 605 00:47:17.639 --> 00:47:22.840 all of a sudden, two Italian I think they had one oh fours at 606 00:47:22.880 --> 00:47:27.800 that time comes up beside him. So they're intercepting the T thirty nine, 607 00:47:28.199 --> 00:47:31.960 and they wiggled their wigs, said you must land now or we're going to 608 00:47:32.000 --> 00:47:37.719 shoot you down because they said you are not authorized to follow this airplane. 609 00:47:37.239 --> 00:47:42.920 So they landed in Rome and the and the airplane went on and Abou Abas 610 00:47:43.000 --> 00:47:45.079 I think was the name of the guy, and uh he went on to 611 00:47:45.280 --> 00:47:50.159 I believe in the Yuoslavia. He finally passed away. But yeah, I 612 00:47:50.159 --> 00:47:52.360 mean, those are the kinds of things that you remember. The it was. 613 00:47:52.480 --> 00:47:55.440 It was a wild time. I mean, it is it was, 614 00:47:57.960 --> 00:48:00.559 you know, find a way to do it. I mean, there was 615 00:48:00.039 --> 00:48:04.119 not a lot of red tape. Final couple of questions here, George. 616 00:48:04.239 --> 00:48:08.239 First of all, after such a distinguished career with so many different facets to 617 00:48:08.280 --> 00:48:12.400 it that we've discussed, what are you most proud of? And you know, 618 00:48:12.440 --> 00:48:15.960 it's hard to say, you know, I was. I was happy 619 00:48:16.039 --> 00:48:20.880 to be able to do the things I did, you know, the flight 620 00:48:20.920 --> 00:48:23.400 school and the flight school and and and doing you know, each of those, 621 00:48:23.400 --> 00:48:29.480 each of those steps in my career were good times. And you know, 622 00:48:29.559 --> 00:48:31.400 being and and and I like, you know, I like being with 623 00:48:31.440 --> 00:48:36.920 the troops. So you know, I'm it's not just aviation, you know, 624 00:48:36.960 --> 00:48:40.320 I enjoyed being with the ground guys, I mean the shooters and rubbing 625 00:48:40.400 --> 00:48:45.840 elbows with them and tell them war stories and and and you know, you're 626 00:48:45.960 --> 00:48:51.159 you're part of a pretty special organization and I and I think that's that's what 627 00:48:51.320 --> 00:48:54.679 stands out for me is being able to do the things and and uh, 628 00:48:54.760 --> 00:48:59.599 you know, and then the following onto that is that, you know, 629 00:48:59.639 --> 00:49:02.039 we love lost the eight guys, and there were seventeen kids left behind, 630 00:49:04.039 --> 00:49:06.920 and we said we're going to take care of them. We've done that and 631 00:49:07.000 --> 00:49:09.880 more with the Special Ups Warrior Foundation. You know, we're to we put 632 00:49:09.960 --> 00:49:15.079 over five around five hundred kids through college. We've got a thousand weight and 633 00:49:15.559 --> 00:49:17.480 every one of them is going to be wherever they want to go to school. 634 00:49:17.480 --> 00:49:21.360 We've got to pay for everything. We pay for for tutoring, we 635 00:49:21.400 --> 00:49:25.079 pay for preschool, we pay I mean, the Special Opportunations Warrior Foundation is 636 00:49:25.119 --> 00:49:29.920 just a continuation of that that, let's get it done. We have a 637 00:49:29.920 --> 00:49:31.039 way to day this. We can take care of this, we can we 638 00:49:31.079 --> 00:49:34.639 can make it happen. I'm so glad you mentioned the foundation. That was 639 00:49:34.679 --> 00:49:37.440 going to be my next question about guys. I know you're very very active 640 00:49:37.480 --> 00:49:40.440 in it, uh, not only taking care of the children of the fallen, 641 00:49:40.519 --> 00:49:46.639 but promoting and making sure we know about the record of them. And 642 00:49:46.920 --> 00:49:51.679 you know, also the severely wounded. When they come back, we make 643 00:49:51.719 --> 00:49:54.440 sure they get connected with VA and and to get their families there early on, 644 00:49:54.559 --> 00:49:59.519 and that sort of thing too. It's sort of the we sometimes forget 645 00:49:59.519 --> 00:50:01.800 about that, but that is that's another big thing that we do, and 646 00:50:01.880 --> 00:50:06.639 we work. One of the things we do is we work directly with it's 647 00:50:06.639 --> 00:50:09.320 called the Carol Coalition at the United States. Special Operations come in so we 648 00:50:09.440 --> 00:50:14.480 know when when it gets to a point that those families are ready to engage 649 00:50:14.480 --> 00:50:19.480 with us at the word round nation and boom we're there. So last question, 650 00:50:19.519 --> 00:50:22.119 sir, what does it mean to you to have the American Veteran Center 651 00:50:22.119 --> 00:50:24.840 collecting stories like yours and others? Well, I'm glad. I'm glad you're 652 00:50:24.880 --> 00:50:30.519 doing it, because you know, we aren't here forever. Sometimes, you 653 00:50:30.519 --> 00:50:36.039 know, we just we tell war stories with my my buddies who've all been 654 00:50:36.599 --> 00:50:38.880 part of this at the at the bar or at the you know, we 655 00:50:38.960 --> 00:50:44.880 are luncheons or wherever. But now we've got it captured in a little bit 656 00:50:44.880 --> 00:50:49.079 of a more more formal way, and and it makes me happy, it 657 00:50:49.159 --> 00:50:52.079 really does. And I appreciate you guys doing it. Well, Thank you, 658 00:50:52.119 --> 00:50:53.199 sir, thank you for your time today and most of all, thank 659 00:50:53.239 --> 00:50:57.840 you for your tremendous service to our country. My pleasure. We've been speaking 660 00:50:57.880 --> 00:51:01.079 with retired US Air Force Colonel George ferk Is, a Vietnam veteran recipient of 661 00:51:01.119 --> 00:51:06.360 the Silver Star and then for many, many years and special operations in the 662 00:51:06.400 --> 00:51:09.960 Air Force, including Operation Eagle Claw, the mission designed to rescue American hostages 663 00:51:10.159 --> 00:51:14.920 in Iran, but as you've heard, many other operations as well. I'm 664 00:51:14.960 --> 00:51:29.239 Greg Corumbus. This is Veterans Chronicles. Hi, this is Greg Corumbus, 665 00:51:29.360 --> 00:51:34.360 and thanks for listening to Veterans Chronicles, a presentation of the American Veterans Center. 666 00:51:35.000 --> 00:51:39.079 For more information, please visit American Veterans Center dot org. You can 667 00:51:39.119 --> 00:51:45.400 also follow the American Veterans Center on Facebook and on Twitter. We're at AVC 668 00:51:45.760 --> 00:51:51.280 update. Subscribe to the American Veterans Center YouTube channel for full oral histories and 669 00:51:51.440 --> 00:51:55.960 special features, and of course, please subscribe to the Veterans Chronicles podcast wherever 670 00:51:57.039 --> 00:52:00.480 you get your podcasts. Thanks again for listening and please join us next time. 671 00:52:00.719 --> 00:52:02.039 Four Veterans Chronicles