WEBVTT 1 00:00:01.159 --> 00:00:04.160 Welcome to Hacking Your Leadership. I'm Chris, I'm Lorenzo, and welcome to 2 00:00:04.160 --> 00:00:07.759 this week's Thoughtful Thursday. Don't forget to follow us on YouTube at Hacking Your 3 00:00:07.839 --> 00:00:10.839 Leadership and leave us a review on iTunes. On this Thoughtful Thursday, I 4 00:00:10.839 --> 00:00:15.880 want to talk about a recent HR survey out of Gartner that said basically that 5 00:00:16.239 --> 00:00:21.120 out of thirty five hundred people that they interviewed, more than half of them 6 00:00:21.359 --> 00:00:27.120 accepted a job offer and then later backed out on it before their first day 7 00:00:27.160 --> 00:00:31.320 of work. And that is those are incredibly high numbers. If you think 8 00:00:31.359 --> 00:00:35.079 about the number of people who accept a job, it means that what they 9 00:00:35.119 --> 00:00:40.320 went through to get that offer and that acceptance in some cases, unfortunately it's 10 00:00:40.399 --> 00:00:44.119 months in many cases. In most cases, it's weeks talking to several people 11 00:00:44.399 --> 00:00:47.719 to get a job offer, to accept the job, and then in that 12 00:00:47.840 --> 00:00:51.840 roughly one to three week period between you know, getting the acceptance and starting 13 00:00:51.920 --> 00:00:56.399 it, they back out. And that's causing problems for a lot of you 14 00:00:56.439 --> 00:01:00.520 know, recruiters and hiring managers and companies who believe they have these roles filled 15 00:01:00.560 --> 00:01:03.439 and then they don't. But I think there's a lot that goes into why 16 00:01:03.480 --> 00:01:06.599 this is happening. What are your thoughts about this? Yeah, I think 17 00:01:06.640 --> 00:01:08.879 there is a lot that goes into why this is happening. I think there's 18 00:01:08.920 --> 00:01:15.400 a lot that is kind of a cross industries right now, just the juggling 19 00:01:15.599 --> 00:01:19.000 of those looking for work, those jobs that are open, the influx of 20 00:01:21.760 --> 00:01:26.359 interest. I think people are still you know, settling into the life and 21 00:01:26.439 --> 00:01:29.640 the work that they want to be able to do and also the way they 22 00:01:29.680 --> 00:01:30.719 want to be able to do the work. There's just a lot out there 23 00:01:30.799 --> 00:01:34.599 right now. And I see it like every day, you know, we 24 00:01:34.640 --> 00:01:38.000 spend a lot of time on LinkedIn, you know, in in connecting with 25 00:01:38.239 --> 00:01:42.319 people on LinkedIn, answering questions, jumping into different threads, you know, 26 00:01:42.000 --> 00:01:47.040 i know, writing for articles things like that. And I see a ton 27 00:01:48.000 --> 00:01:53.519 still of movement around people moving industries, careers. We've continued to see a 28 00:01:53.599 --> 00:01:59.280 lot of organizations and companies you know, moving forward with plans around layoffs still. 29 00:01:59.680 --> 00:02:01.640 And I mean it's just there's a lot going on. So I'm not 30 00:02:01.719 --> 00:02:07.159 surprised one bit that there's you know, that there's some some I wouldn't say 31 00:02:07.240 --> 00:02:12.280 newness, but a there's a different thing going on than we've ever seen before 32 00:02:12.319 --> 00:02:15.960 in regards to like the jobs that people are accepting and how they're taking a 33 00:02:15.039 --> 00:02:19.240 job and then taking a different job. I think that there's just a lot 34 00:02:19.280 --> 00:02:22.280 of noise in the system right now that we've never experienced before. Right Well, 35 00:02:22.319 --> 00:02:23.759 if you look at people who are applying for jobs, you know, 36 00:02:23.800 --> 00:02:28.639 there's the there's the person who's out of work and needs a job, and 37 00:02:28.680 --> 00:02:31.240 then there's a person who is currently employed but they don't necessarily love where they 38 00:02:31.240 --> 00:02:35.800 are and they're looking to make a change, and so they're applying to and 39 00:02:35.840 --> 00:02:39.840 those are different people, but they are they still apply in most cases to 40 00:02:40.479 --> 00:02:45.159 many many jobs. Because as we've seen, it is a numbers game out 41 00:02:45.159 --> 00:02:50.400 there. There's AI that runs that will filter out applications that don't have certain 42 00:02:50.439 --> 00:02:53.800 words that companies are looking for. Because let's be realistic, if you put 43 00:02:53.800 --> 00:02:58.199 a job out there and you know five thousand people apply for it, you 44 00:02:58.240 --> 00:03:01.840 don't have the resources to read through five thousand resumes and applications. You have 45 00:03:01.879 --> 00:03:07.800 a program that runs that filters out everybody that doesn't have certain words or certain 46 00:03:07.840 --> 00:03:10.879 things in their resume or their employment history or their you know, their credentials, 47 00:03:12.080 --> 00:03:14.520 and then you go through you know, the top five or top ten 48 00:03:14.520 --> 00:03:16.400 percent of those, and you move forward there. And because of that, 49 00:03:17.039 --> 00:03:20.800 a person who's looking for a job, in a lot of cases will apply 50 00:03:20.879 --> 00:03:24.280 to hundreds of jobs, hundreds of organizations in the time that it takes to 51 00:03:24.360 --> 00:03:28.080 kind of, you know, make that jump or to become employed. And 52 00:03:28.159 --> 00:03:32.840 so if I'm doing this and I am in the process of hiring with a 53 00:03:32.919 --> 00:03:38.159 company, if I'm a hiring manager, I'm hiring somebody, it's pretty naive 54 00:03:38.240 --> 00:03:42.280 of me to think that this person is not interviewing with other places too, 55 00:03:42.360 --> 00:03:46.960 Like what's so special about my organization that says that the person I'm talking to 56 00:03:46.560 --> 00:03:50.719 isn't looking at other places as well. If they need a job or if 57 00:03:50.719 --> 00:03:53.439 they're looking to exit their job, if they're smart, they're keeping their options 58 00:03:53.479 --> 00:03:55.919 open and they're trying to figure out where the best place is. And so 59 00:03:55.960 --> 00:04:00.159 it does make sense that people be in this process with multiple companies. So 60 00:04:00.159 --> 00:04:02.599 then it also makes sense that if you happen to be their first job offer, 61 00:04:02.879 --> 00:04:06.639 they're going to say yes if they're especially if they're unemployed, or if 62 00:04:06.639 --> 00:04:12.159 they're really disliking the place they're at. But then let's say during that kind 63 00:04:12.199 --> 00:04:16.319 of transitional period, they get another offer from another organization that they like better. 64 00:04:16.480 --> 00:04:18.759 Well, what's to stop them from saying no to you and then taking 65 00:04:18.800 --> 00:04:21.480 that next one? If they have all these people kind of knocking at the 66 00:04:21.519 --> 00:04:26.959 door. And so I think that there's because the job market is tough. 67 00:04:27.040 --> 00:04:30.079 And I'm using air quotes here because it's tough right now. I think a 68 00:04:30.120 --> 00:04:33.680 lot of organizations think that means that they hold all the cards. And really, 69 00:04:33.720 --> 00:04:36.360 if you have talent and you have skills that people are looking for, 70 00:04:36.759 --> 00:04:40.040 the job market is not tough for you. That you have a lot of 71 00:04:40.040 --> 00:04:43.319 options. If you are a talented, skilled employee that can bring a lot 72 00:04:43.360 --> 00:04:45.279 to the table. And so what I want to ask you, Lorenzo, 73 00:04:45.399 --> 00:04:48.279 is have you ever offered a job to somebody They accepted, they went through 74 00:04:48.279 --> 00:04:51.279 the whole process, everything was great, and then before the day they started 75 00:04:51.480 --> 00:04:56.199 they reached out and said no, never mind, you know for knowing certain 76 00:04:56.319 --> 00:04:59.680 terms, Sorry, but you won't be seeing me again. So I want 77 00:04:59.720 --> 00:05:00.240 to ask you up at first, I'm wanna get up to word for one 78 00:05:00.240 --> 00:05:04.399 of our sponsors. All right, Lorenzo, has anyone ever agreed to a 79 00:05:04.519 --> 00:05:08.839 job and you worked out all the details and it seemed like everything was great 80 00:05:08.839 --> 00:05:11.279 and then all of a sudden, it just didn't happen. I mean we're 81 00:05:11.279 --> 00:05:14.360 talking about me right right, Like, like, how could anybody tell me? 82 00:05:14.360 --> 00:05:15.160 No, Yeah, of course it's happened. Yes, it's happened, 83 00:05:15.199 --> 00:05:19.319 Yes, I think. And this is again how this is kind of new 84 00:05:19.439 --> 00:05:24.720 in this space, is it's happened before, especially in the retail world, 85 00:05:25.240 --> 00:05:29.319 where where I've you know, worked with somebody all the way through an offer 86 00:05:29.360 --> 00:05:32.560 standpoint and in their current company had countered, right, and sometimes that company 87 00:05:32.600 --> 00:05:36.519 had countered with more money, maybe a new position, maybe some more promises, 88 00:05:36.560 --> 00:05:40.720 whatever that might be. But I've had that that that happened to me, 89 00:05:40.920 --> 00:05:43.800 where we've gotten to that point of the offer and they came back and 90 00:05:43.839 --> 00:05:46.720 said, I'm going to have to decline after all of that work. What's 91 00:05:46.759 --> 00:05:51.160 been new recently that I've seen is what you explained earlier, which is somebody 92 00:05:51.240 --> 00:05:56.120 accepting the job and then starting to do the you know, not just the 93 00:05:56.120 --> 00:05:59.360 paperwork, but like the schedule of getting things going, and then them saying, 94 00:05:59.360 --> 00:06:01.800 oh, sorry, I actually took a different job instead. Like that, 95 00:06:01.800 --> 00:06:08.079 that's relatively new, you know, every blue moon, maybe I've seen 96 00:06:08.120 --> 00:06:11.920 that happen where, especially in retail, where sometimes you'll do you know, 97 00:06:12.040 --> 00:06:15.319 temporary hiring dear in holidays and things like that. Well, then you understand, 98 00:06:15.319 --> 00:06:16.839 like somebody's looking for a part time job and it's a temporary job, 99 00:06:16.879 --> 00:06:19.480 and if they are looking for multiple places, you know, they kind of 100 00:06:19.480 --> 00:06:21.879 make a decision on what makes sense for them. But when it comes to 101 00:06:23.040 --> 00:06:28.240 actual roles, you know, permanent roles, leadership roles. This is something 102 00:06:28.360 --> 00:06:32.720 new that that I have not really seen before where where it's been like, 103 00:06:33.079 --> 00:06:36.360 yes, I take I want the job, and then I've decided to take 104 00:06:36.360 --> 00:06:42.720 a different job somewhere else. I've seen that more recently, uh, with 105 00:06:42.720 --> 00:06:46.360 with what's going on in the world, than I ever have before. Yeah, 106 00:06:46.439 --> 00:06:48.759 So if I'm thinking about as a hiring manager or a recruiter or someone 107 00:06:49.079 --> 00:06:51.759 and I want to kind of, you know, lessen the likelihood of this 108 00:06:51.839 --> 00:06:55.480 happening, I think there's a few things that people can do to kind of 109 00:06:55.600 --> 00:07:00.439 to lower this this instance. The first thing is, you know, inmployees 110 00:07:00.639 --> 00:07:04.000 and potential employees are looking to have connections with their with their employers. They're 111 00:07:04.040 --> 00:07:09.560 looking to have kind of a process that says, you know what on an 112 00:07:09.600 --> 00:07:12.079 emotional level. This is the right place for me. This is where I 113 00:07:12.120 --> 00:07:14.759 want to be. It's not just a place to clock in and clock out 114 00:07:14.800 --> 00:07:17.680 and collect a paycheck and move on. There's such a bleed between work and 115 00:07:17.720 --> 00:07:23.639 personal life that they have to really want to be at a place in order 116 00:07:23.639 --> 00:07:26.040 to do their best work. And honestly, you should want them to want 117 00:07:26.079 --> 00:07:28.680 to be there if they want to do their best work. You don't want 118 00:07:28.680 --> 00:07:32.079 someone who's just like running from something and finding you as a landing spot. 119 00:07:32.480 --> 00:07:39.040 They should want to be there. But creating that connection involves the candidate meeting 120 00:07:39.199 --> 00:07:43.360 with you if you're the hiring manager or the potential leader, not just this 121 00:07:43.519 --> 00:07:47.800 kind of vague and detached process with several people who get who they perceive is 122 00:07:47.879 --> 00:07:50.360 making the decision for you, and I get it. You have to have 123 00:07:50.399 --> 00:07:56.040 people in there that can lower the likelihood of inherent biases that can exist in 124 00:07:56.079 --> 00:07:59.160 the hiring process. You want to make sure that it's not just one person 125 00:07:59.199 --> 00:08:01.680 making the decision. You have to get a lot of people involved. But 126 00:08:01.759 --> 00:08:05.040 if you are the person that this potential candidate is reporting to, you need 127 00:08:05.079 --> 00:08:09.399 to be talking to this person in the process to make sure that they feel 128 00:08:09.399 --> 00:08:13.279 comfortable with not just the job, but with you. Because remember people leave 129 00:08:13.360 --> 00:08:16.399 leaders, they don't leave organizations, and so if you can create that connection 130 00:08:16.480 --> 00:08:18.399 with you as the leader, you're gonna have a better time with this. 131 00:08:18.720 --> 00:08:22.639 The second thing is once a person's accepted a job offer, the reality is 132 00:08:22.839 --> 00:08:26.519 that doesn't mean that they've accepted the job offer. It just means that you 133 00:08:26.800 --> 00:08:28.759 believe. You can kind of rest on your laurels and assume they're going to 134 00:08:28.759 --> 00:08:31.480 start on Monday morning when they say they're going to start. But this is 135 00:08:31.519 --> 00:08:35.000 the time when a lot of people decide to take other job offers because they 136 00:08:35.000 --> 00:08:39.440 were also in the process with other organizations. So continue to reach out to 137 00:08:39.480 --> 00:08:39.960 them, say, hey, you know what. I know you don't start 138 00:08:41.039 --> 00:08:43.679 until you know, two weeks from now, but I would love to get 139 00:08:43.720 --> 00:08:46.320 together and have lunch and just chat. I would love to know what your 140 00:08:46.360 --> 00:08:48.159 expectations of me are as your leader. So if you have an hour for 141 00:08:48.559 --> 00:08:52.039 lunch one day coming up, let's sit down and have a talk. You 142 00:08:52.080 --> 00:08:54.159 know, you want to make sure you're having these conversations with people in that 143 00:08:54.279 --> 00:08:58.000 interim so you don't let the doubt set in. You don't let them kind 144 00:08:58.039 --> 00:09:01.320 of think to themselves. Maybe I made the wrong decision going with this organization. 145 00:09:01.559 --> 00:09:05.759 I haven't heard them from them since I accepted the job offer. So 146 00:09:05.159 --> 00:09:07.960 there are things you can do. It's not going to stop it permanently, 147 00:09:09.039 --> 00:09:11.360 but you can lessen it by creating that emotional connection. Yeah. I think 148 00:09:11.399 --> 00:09:18.559 that's great advice. And I think that in my kind of perspective of recruiting 149 00:09:18.600 --> 00:09:20.759 in a time that I spend talking to people in talent, especially in like 150 00:09:20.840 --> 00:09:24.639 leadership roles, that's actually a part of my process is like I want to 151 00:09:24.679 --> 00:09:30.960 have some dialogue and conversations outside of an interview process. I'd rather connect with 152 00:09:31.159 --> 00:09:33.720 people when their job isn't open. Fer say, so, if I'm getting 153 00:09:33.759 --> 00:09:37.279 to know people, if I see some great behaviors, if I if I'm 154 00:09:37.279 --> 00:09:41.960 like this person may work well for me and my organization, that type of 155 00:09:41.960 --> 00:09:45.080 thing, I'm going to go approach them and say, hey, you know, 156 00:09:45.240 --> 00:09:46.039 this is who I am, this is what I do. You know, 157 00:09:46.080 --> 00:09:48.200 I'd love to talk with you a little bit. Would you be open 158 00:09:48.200 --> 00:09:50.320 to having just a cup of coffee and discussing, you know, and just 159 00:09:50.320 --> 00:09:54.440 getting to know each other and seeing there's any interest there at all, And 160 00:09:54.480 --> 00:09:58.799 then that way you don't have this formality of process that's going to happen potentially, 161 00:09:58.120 --> 00:10:01.919 but you have the opportun to connect with the person to talk about what 162 00:10:01.960 --> 00:10:05.679 are they looking to achieve, not just you know, with a job, 163 00:10:05.759 --> 00:10:09.279 but like in life, in their career, what are things that are important 164 00:10:09.279 --> 00:10:11.960 to them. You get a chance to really connect with someone to understand like 165 00:10:13.039 --> 00:10:16.720 not only are they aligned with values, but like how do they show up 166 00:10:16.799 --> 00:10:20.000 and discuss the work that they do when they're not in a interview process answering 167 00:10:20.120 --> 00:10:24.120 very specific questions And I think these are all things that if you're looking to 168 00:10:24.240 --> 00:10:30.360 avoid people making that last minute decision and just looking at job versus job, 169 00:10:30.440 --> 00:10:33.159 but considering the environment, the leaders, the connections, you're going to have 170 00:10:33.200 --> 00:10:39.679 to put for some of that work on the front end to make that a 171 00:10:39.679 --> 00:10:43.039 deciding factor and how people make a decision. Sometimes I think that's spot on. 172 00:10:43.120 --> 00:10:46.399 I also think that there's this element of kind of disarming the process when 173 00:10:46.480 --> 00:10:50.360 you do that, too. And what I mean to that is that you 174 00:10:50.360 --> 00:10:54.840 know there are people who really know how to interview well, and they know 175 00:10:54.879 --> 00:10:58.639 how to put their best foot forward. And I've been in situations where someone 176 00:10:58.720 --> 00:11:03.360 was hired and after words, I think this person is not like the person 177 00:11:03.399 --> 00:11:07.320 that we interviewed, right, And if you are a skilled interview were you 178 00:11:07.360 --> 00:11:09.639 can get through a lot of that. If you're a skilled interview if you 179 00:11:09.679 --> 00:11:11.120 know the right questions to ask, you can kind of see through some of 180 00:11:11.159 --> 00:11:15.639 the bs that people can put out there. But there are people out there 181 00:11:15.679 --> 00:11:18.000 who are very good at this. And if you can have a personal connection 182 00:11:18.039 --> 00:11:22.200 with somebody that disarms them to the process, you are more likely to see 183 00:11:22.200 --> 00:11:26.399 the real them and the interview process to begin with, in those conversations that 184 00:11:26.440 --> 00:11:30.000 you're having, you're less likely to see that person who thinks they have to 185 00:11:30.039 --> 00:11:33.480 polish something up in order to present it to you, and you're more likely 186 00:11:33.519 --> 00:11:37.399 to see somebody who is more comfortable being the real them during that interview process 187 00:11:37.519 --> 00:11:41.919 if you can kind of disarm that. So you're only serving yourself well to 188 00:11:41.240 --> 00:11:46.080 make sure you're getting the person that you think you're getting, but you're also 189 00:11:46.399 --> 00:11:48.519 once you get that person, you're also setting up to make sure that they 190 00:11:48.600 --> 00:11:52.720 feel good about it and that they're less likely to back out absolutely. And 191 00:11:52.799 --> 00:11:54.200 with that it brings us to the end of this episode. This is hacking 192 00:11:54.200 --> 00:11:58.159 your leadership. I'm Lorenzo and I'm Chris and have a great day.