WEBVTT 1 00:00:14.960 --> 00:00:19.359 Hello from Houston, and welcome to episode two of prest of Magic, titled 2 00:00:19.480 --> 00:00:23.640 from pay per View to Plie. Here on the w W podcast where we 3 00:00:23.719 --> 00:00:28.519 are local for our stay side and we are international checking in once again, 4 00:00:28.640 --> 00:00:32.320 It's me, It's me, It's Rocket Tea. I'm here with the Captain 5 00:00:32.359 --> 00:00:37.640 of the Ship, the second best wrestling podcaster in Louisville, the Peppermaster, 6 00:00:37.840 --> 00:00:42.280 the gardener, mister Michael Gross, and we have a special guest this time 7 00:00:42.320 --> 00:00:47.399 to help us cover this top topic. You should almost definitely recognize his voice. 8 00:00:47.840 --> 00:00:51.200 He is the man that coined the term hill billy soap opera, the 9 00:00:51.280 --> 00:00:55.880 man who kindly asks you to spay and new to your pets. He helps 10 00:00:55.960 --> 00:01:02.799 from mullet manor the voice of our NXT review mister Memphis Mark Fellas, are 11 00:01:02.799 --> 00:01:06.680 we ready to make some magic? How are we doing? Man? That 12 00:01:06.879 --> 00:01:14.439 was a great, great interest. I appreciate that very much. That was 13 00:01:14.480 --> 00:01:19.200 something like David Copperfield would do on pay per view. You know, I 14 00:01:19.280 --> 00:01:25.239 try and USI paper view exactly because that's what you had to do to see 15 00:01:25.239 --> 00:01:27.640 the Statue of Liberty disappeared back in the day. Actually, we got the 16 00:01:27.680 --> 00:01:34.519 free purview later on on ABC and NBC would come on alright, so real 17 00:01:34.599 --> 00:01:38.359 quick before we get started. I don't know if this is a precurshow to 18 00:01:38.480 --> 00:01:42.719 anything, but before we recorded our first show last month, there was bad 19 00:01:42.760 --> 00:01:47.959 weather in Louisville. With you, Michael. Now, this episode was delayed 20 00:01:48.000 --> 00:01:53.040 last week due to the bad weather in Memphis with Mark. A few days 21 00:01:53.040 --> 00:01:57.079 before, there was actually a tropical storm that passed through Houston. Now, 22 00:01:57.280 --> 00:02:01.400 weather here in Houston has a bipolar disorder, so a bad weather here in 23 00:02:01.480 --> 00:02:06.400 Houston can literally change from one minute to the next. But I'm glad we 24 00:02:06.519 --> 00:02:13.520 all hopefully had clear skys today to make this record happening. I agree, 25 00:02:13.639 --> 00:02:19.000 absolutely definitely. I just think that's it's been so weird with the schizophrenic rather 26 00:02:19.120 --> 00:02:22.960 weather that has happened in Louisville. And I know when I lived in Memphis, 27 00:02:22.960 --> 00:02:24.039 it was the same thing. And then I saw what was coming your 28 00:02:24.080 --> 00:02:29.520 year or you know, Houston territory. Yeah, you're probably like that one. 29 00:02:29.599 --> 00:02:36.919 Mark. Just the fact that like this is a terrible, terrible weather 30 00:02:37.039 --> 00:02:42.159 situation for the last probably three or four months, and everybody talks about like 31 00:02:42.680 --> 00:02:47.000 Illnino years and Il Neino years, and I remember, like the first time 32 00:02:47.039 --> 00:02:53.319 I heard the Illnino term was like ninety four and it was the mildest winter 33 00:02:53.479 --> 00:02:58.039 I had ever seen, and this is supposed to be a replicated year. 34 00:02:58.360 --> 00:03:01.879 And then ninety six was one the worst winters I've ever seen in my life. 35 00:03:01.879 --> 00:03:08.159 So we've got great southern semi southern weathern but I pray for the people 36 00:03:08.159 --> 00:03:12.879 in the north. What about you, guys, how are you doing well? 37 00:03:12.919 --> 00:03:15.719 I'd have to say that we're we're on the lookout for not El Nino, 38 00:03:15.840 --> 00:03:25.599 but El Camino. That's the only thing we're worried about her. Alright, 39 00:03:25.639 --> 00:03:29.280 alright, well, there's like I said, I had clearous guys here 40 00:03:29.280 --> 00:03:30.800 in Houston. That's a couple of days after that tropical storm pass. But 41 00:03:32.919 --> 00:03:40.080 to dive into it um basically, So, this idea came to me the 42 00:03:40.199 --> 00:03:46.319 night of the Elimination Chamber after winning sing one of, if not the best 43 00:03:46.439 --> 00:03:50.919 B level pay per view slash Peel League main event of all time with Sammy 44 00:03:51.000 --> 00:03:54.759 versus Roman, I started to remember what other event used to be the buffer 45 00:03:54.840 --> 00:04:00.319 between bumble and mania before Elimination Chamber became its own pail in twenty ten. 46 00:04:00.800 --> 00:04:03.840 And the answer to that is no way out. We had that for a 47 00:04:04.240 --> 00:04:10.400 good decade or so. Besides WrestleMania, I don't always have a sense of 48 00:04:10.520 --> 00:04:15.000 urgency to watch any particular event life because of the world that we live in 49 00:04:15.680 --> 00:04:18.720 now being able to stream any pay per view any time. But this year's 50 00:04:18.759 --> 00:04:24.199 Chamber it was different. I had to watch this B level paree live. 51 00:04:24.759 --> 00:04:29.199 There was too much at stake not to but everything at stake for this match. 52 00:04:29.319 --> 00:04:33.680 It really felt like musty TV and a world where musty TV doesn't really 53 00:04:33.759 --> 00:04:39.600 mean what it used to. Then that made me think of how I and 54 00:04:39.879 --> 00:04:44.439 we as e w W universe consumed the product to get our progressing fixed. 55 00:04:45.240 --> 00:04:47.800 So before we get into the building blocks of how pay per view came to 56 00:04:47.879 --> 00:04:51.720 be, let me tell y'all exactly what pay per view means to me. 57 00:04:54.040 --> 00:04:57.519 Pay per view for me growing up, meant that friends and family were coming 58 00:04:57.560 --> 00:05:01.920 over this Sunday. It meant that pit was lit, pizza was being delivered, 59 00:05:01.959 --> 00:05:06.519 and drinks were iced into coolers. It meant backyard wrestling for me on 60 00:05:06.560 --> 00:05:10.680 the trampoline before the show started. So it was a great time for me 61 00:05:10.759 --> 00:05:15.199 growing up in the Attitude era. How did you guys gather or gear up 62 00:05:15.199 --> 00:05:21.120 for any pay per view back at end today or even nowadays. Well, 63 00:05:21.160 --> 00:05:27.759 you know, back in our day there wasn't pay per view, so we 64 00:05:27.759 --> 00:05:30.920 can start there. Mark and I grew up in a day, And I 65 00:05:30.920 --> 00:05:34.519 mean, I don't really want to speak for Memphis Mart, but I mean 66 00:05:34.560 --> 00:05:38.480 he's a good friend of mine, and we are in the same age bracket. 67 00:05:38.560 --> 00:05:42.319 We grew up in a different era. And that was an era where 68 00:05:43.240 --> 00:05:47.720 you lived in the territory and hopefully in cities where they could wire cable. 69 00:05:47.839 --> 00:05:55.959 That was the big thing about cable, so you could have closed circuit cable. 70 00:05:56.480 --> 00:05:59.959 That was the biggest thing in the world for any kind of wrestling. 71 00:06:01.079 --> 00:06:05.399 And that for me, well it was too expensive. But Mark, what 72 00:06:05.800 --> 00:06:10.519 about you? You grew up in that era before me. How did you 73 00:06:10.600 --> 00:06:15.160 do that? What was it liked? Well, with the close circuit, 74 00:06:15.920 --> 00:06:20.319 you've got usually of some kind of not a bano hall, but you some 75 00:06:20.399 --> 00:06:26.959 kind of banquet hall, or it could be local theaters or whatever it may 76 00:06:27.000 --> 00:06:30.439 be. But if you had to go in, you had to see the 77 00:06:30.519 --> 00:06:35.560 ad on your local grocery store and just to even know about it, or 78 00:06:35.600 --> 00:06:40.120 the radio. But yeah, close circuit was where it was, and you 79 00:06:40.120 --> 00:06:46.199 were really big in wrestling if you had close circuit events in your territory. 80 00:06:46.560 --> 00:06:50.639 You see, we talk about close circuit. I don't have any life experience 81 00:06:50.680 --> 00:06:56.720 with it or much knowledge, and but there's being such a large topic to 82 00:06:56.800 --> 00:06:59.959 cover on. What I mean by that is that it spans over many day 83 00:07:00.000 --> 00:07:02.279 decades and like I said, I've only been alive for the last three and 84 00:07:02.319 --> 00:07:06.319 a half. But Michael, you have a lot of knowledge about WWE, 85 00:07:06.639 --> 00:07:12.680 w GW and Japan, and you and Mark both have knowledge of the territory 86 00:07:12.720 --> 00:07:15.639 days where I do not. So when I figured out more or less what 87 00:07:15.800 --> 00:07:19.399 I wanted to cover on this topic, I knew I wanted to recruit Mark 88 00:07:19.480 --> 00:07:24.160 for this. So thank you Mark for taking the time to make this magical 89 00:07:24.360 --> 00:07:30.000 US. Oh, I definitely appreciate it, Absolutely appreciate it. So in 90 00:07:30.480 --> 00:07:33.600 the eighties there were about one hundred territories across the US, and each had 91 00:07:33.639 --> 00:07:39.560 their own promoter. After buying his dad's promotion, Vince aspired to go national 92 00:07:39.639 --> 00:07:45.240 and international. He wants to expand and the birth of WrestleMania will start to 93 00:07:45.279 --> 00:07:49.000 formulate. Now we've come a long way from closed circuit and vhas tapes in 94 00:07:49.040 --> 00:07:55.600 the seventies and eighties and DVDs and two DVR in the late nineties into the 95 00:07:55.639 --> 00:08:00.600 two thousands. Now operating in a digital age, surfing the digit the highway, 96 00:08:00.720 --> 00:08:05.959 we stream everything under the sun from our phones or our tablets. Now 97 00:08:05.680 --> 00:08:11.319 we have the luxury and not having to watch our shows live and all we 98 00:08:11.360 --> 00:08:13.720 have to do is open one of our shooting platforms like Hulu, Pee conqueror 99 00:08:13.839 --> 00:08:18.120 YouTube TV to watch it on delay. But let's go back and talk about 100 00:08:18.199 --> 00:08:22.360 the early days. So please guys inform you some more about these close circuit 101 00:08:22.439 --> 00:08:31.360 days. And were these close circuit events taking place at mark Go ahead, 102 00:08:31.560 --> 00:08:35.720 because you're gonna take take the king on this one. Well, yeah, 103 00:08:35.759 --> 00:08:41.600 I mean in Memphis we were lucky enough to have probably at one point in 104 00:08:41.679 --> 00:08:46.559 time of the hottest bit of wrestling in the territories, and we would put 105 00:08:48.120 --> 00:08:52.159 twelve I think it was actually eleven thousand, three hundred in the Mid South 106 00:08:52.240 --> 00:08:58.240 Coliseum on a Monday night. So if you got an out of town persons, 107 00:08:58.320 --> 00:09:03.279 say if you had back in the day Nick Bockwinkle, or you had 108 00:09:03.320 --> 00:09:09.039 a Harley Race come in, they could do a closed circuit which meaning they 109 00:09:09.039 --> 00:09:16.720 would film it streaming out live. Also and it would go out to certain 110 00:09:16.080 --> 00:09:22.960 select theaters that paid a fee. Now, Michael, please help me in 111 00:09:22.039 --> 00:09:26.759 here if I get get any of the wheels off the track. But that's 112 00:09:26.799 --> 00:09:30.600 pretty much. No, That's pretty much how it is. And if you 113 00:09:30.720 --> 00:09:33.799 to buy the rights to something like that, that was a pretty big deal. 114 00:09:33.879 --> 00:09:39.279 So, and like Michael kind of mentioned earlier, it was it wasn't 115 00:09:39.440 --> 00:09:46.399 cheap for that time. But if you were something like that and that was 116 00:09:46.840 --> 00:09:52.000 eighties prices easily, yeah, And if you were in that event, that 117 00:09:52.120 --> 00:10:00.000 was cool. Closed Circuit TV. The biggest thing was you had the exclusive. 118 00:10:00.200 --> 00:10:03.519 That's what they meant for everything. And the biggest thing with Close Circuit 119 00:10:03.559 --> 00:10:11.120 TV was it was big with boxing and so Dusty Dusty Rhodes getting the book 120 00:10:11.399 --> 00:10:18.720 over in the NWA and helping out with Jim Crockett Promotions, he said, 121 00:10:18.759 --> 00:10:22.879 we could do latmole with the Closed circuit I'm telling you, baby, could 122 00:10:24.120 --> 00:10:28.080 We could promote close second issue if we syndicate everything, and he did, 123 00:10:28.879 --> 00:10:35.080 and Close Circuit got bigger and bigger. But the idea was sad because sometimes 124 00:10:35.080 --> 00:10:37.759 when it got to the markets, it was already played out in the old 125 00:10:41.360 --> 00:10:46.360 There was times where the Closed Circuit wouldn't work because it was all a very 126 00:10:46.480 --> 00:10:54.480 early digital age of every way that you would communicate before satellites were really doing 127 00:10:54.519 --> 00:11:01.799 what they would and so there was another idea floating around. But the first 128 00:11:01.120 --> 00:11:07.480 closed circuit, really really really big wrestling event was Star Kid. A lot 129 00:11:07.519 --> 00:11:13.159 of people don't know that, but it really is. And that was a 130 00:11:13.200 --> 00:11:20.600 lot of Dusty's idea, and that's why it actually is the nickname of the 131 00:11:20.679 --> 00:11:26.559 Granddaddy Bit. All but one comes down to it. It was all there. 132 00:11:26.679 --> 00:11:28.960 You had to go to these places, you had to go to movie 133 00:11:28.960 --> 00:11:35.159 theaters and you had to pay forty dollars or like in my small market where 134 00:11:35.159 --> 00:11:41.200 I lived in Ashtabule, Ohio at the time, it was like twelve thirteen 135 00:11:41.240 --> 00:11:46.440 dollars, but that was nineteen eighty three. That's like thirty bucks. Oh 136 00:11:46.519 --> 00:11:50.759 yeah, And if you're going to go back, you know, we'll have 137 00:11:50.840 --> 00:11:54.879 to have to go back to the original guy who really made it the big 138 00:11:54.919 --> 00:12:01.039 time made it too must see, and that was that was mister Knebel, 139 00:12:01.159 --> 00:12:05.360 Evil Knevil. Well, that that was the whole thing that Evil was. 140 00:12:07.080 --> 00:12:11.519 He was doing things that a lot of people didn't do, and he made 141 00:12:11.559 --> 00:12:13.960 one of the biggest fans in the world. Do you know who that fan 142 00:12:13.240 --> 00:12:20.840 was? Hm? Well, was that maybe maybe somebody with a new a 143 00:12:20.960 --> 00:12:26.679 new mustache that would say to the name was thought he could promote the world, 144 00:12:26.799 --> 00:12:30.720 and he thought the whole world was going to be on pay per view, 145 00:12:31.080 --> 00:12:33.639 and his whole idea was going to be on pay per view. But 146 00:12:35.120 --> 00:12:39.320 his whole world was on the wings of Evil Knevil, which is the worst 147 00:12:39.399 --> 00:12:43.000 wings that you could probably put them on. And it's not Evil's problem. 148 00:12:43.679 --> 00:12:50.039 But moving forward, closed circuit was like a big thing. So I saw 149 00:12:50.200 --> 00:12:56.360 every time when I was probably watching a black and white television in my bedroom 150 00:12:56.399 --> 00:13:01.759 at nine years old and eighty four, they would talk about go to all 151 00:13:01.759 --> 00:13:05.679 these places, go see closed circuit, and then they would bring up like 152 00:13:05.840 --> 00:13:15.279 other little things like satellite dish. And then a couple of years went by 153 00:13:15.360 --> 00:13:22.159 and they said a different word, pay per view. It was a rod 154 00:13:22.200 --> 00:13:28.039 dance word. So before the days of pay per view, when you were 155 00:13:28.080 --> 00:13:31.279 to go to these close circuit events at movie theaters, were they all movie 156 00:13:31.320 --> 00:13:35.759 theaters or was there maybe like a Bengal har or something else they would use 157 00:13:35.799 --> 00:13:43.159 in the theaters. You could you would have them and anywhere that well, 158 00:13:43.240 --> 00:13:48.039 with boxing they needed certain size. You knew you were going to have this 159 00:13:48.159 --> 00:13:52.159 kind of a draw. With wrestling, a lot of that was you know, 160 00:13:52.240 --> 00:13:56.240 kind of trial and era for just a little bit until they because they 161 00:13:56.240 --> 00:13:58.639 didn't want to you know, of course have a too big of a place. 162 00:13:58.720 --> 00:14:03.120 But yeah, they had. They had them in movie theaters is one 163 00:14:03.120 --> 00:14:07.279 of the most common places. And it would literally they would back up a 164 00:14:07.440 --> 00:14:16.080 satellite that word that Michael just said, satellite and hardwired and damn you had 165 00:14:16.360 --> 00:14:22.519 closed circuit TV and were these theaters selling out that to the point where you'd 166 00:14:22.519 --> 00:14:26.120 have all the seats slit up and then maybe some standing room tickets or or 167 00:14:26.480 --> 00:14:31.519 And I second part B is how much would it cost you know back then 168 00:14:31.759 --> 00:14:35.799 for that I know you were saying a few things in your market, Michael, 169 00:14:35.799 --> 00:14:37.960 but what am I for you? Mark? Well, here you had 170 00:14:37.960 --> 00:14:45.279 it more of an educated clientele with the wrestling being such a so many people 171 00:14:45.279 --> 00:14:48.039 that were in it, so you would have now, of course, my 172 00:14:48.120 --> 00:14:54.240 first closed circuit would have probably been about twenty dollars. That's also when gas 173 00:14:54.320 --> 00:14:58.120 was less than a dollar, so that'll and when I say less than a 174 00:14:58.159 --> 00:15:05.000 dollar, I'm talking fifty cents. We're talking a little while back, and 175 00:15:05.120 --> 00:15:09.240 that like and yeah, it would be in a movie theater, but a 176 00:15:09.360 --> 00:15:13.679 large one. And they didn't towards the end, you didn't have chairs. 177 00:15:13.960 --> 00:15:20.960 It was standing room only. So yeah, and which Rocky also, this 178 00:15:20.039 --> 00:15:24.080 is something that you would not know about, but back in those days they 179 00:15:24.120 --> 00:15:28.120 would out also advertise you don't want to be standing room only, and then 180 00:15:28.159 --> 00:15:33.960 they would always say you can only get this in closed circuit, don't wait 181 00:15:33.080 --> 00:15:37.200 till the eleventh hour. That was a big thing that they would always say 182 00:15:37.720 --> 00:15:45.039 that they carried from the closed circuit to the pay per view realm of life, 183 00:15:45.080 --> 00:15:50.080 because they wanted you to believe that, no matter what, there was 184 00:15:50.159 --> 00:15:56.879 only so much limitation. So when they started berthing the pay per view era 185 00:15:56.720 --> 00:16:02.960 and Vince McMahon's vision, which we're going to bleed into here in a second, 186 00:16:03.039 --> 00:16:07.120 they only wanted you to believe that maybe if you had pay per view, 187 00:16:07.159 --> 00:16:14.840 there was only twelve tickets left and you only had five. Okay, 188 00:16:15.279 --> 00:16:18.720 well, I do have one little fun fact. I do know that for 189 00:16:18.000 --> 00:16:22.799 restume on you too, that in Pittsburgh, one of the receivers was that 190 00:16:22.919 --> 00:16:27.440 working everybody was refunded and then a few days later they broadcasted it and that 191 00:16:27.519 --> 00:16:33.120 TV market for free. And this was the only time that resume any it 192 00:16:33.399 --> 00:16:41.000 was showing for free. I did not know that. Yeah, that's a 193 00:16:41.080 --> 00:16:45.679 new one on me. I mean, that's that's right around the time I 194 00:16:45.759 --> 00:16:48.559 was starting watching wrestling, So I didn't I didn't know that. God, 195 00:16:48.559 --> 00:16:52.679 guy, I know about the Daniel Brian incident where a lot of people turned 196 00:16:52.720 --> 00:16:56.960 into receipts. But let's keep going, all right, So moving on, 197 00:16:57.159 --> 00:17:02.559 we're going to talk about tape trading. Now. This is something I didn't 198 00:17:02.559 --> 00:17:04.279 know it was a thing until Michael, you brought it up to me and 199 00:17:04.480 --> 00:17:10.079 told me that you wanted to cover it. Tape trading was the only way 200 00:17:10.079 --> 00:17:14.880 to see events from other states and cities that didn't air in your local market. 201 00:17:15.440 --> 00:17:18.960 Tape trading is certainly a thing of the past. Before the boom of 202 00:17:18.000 --> 00:17:22.759 the internet in the late nineties, before there was ever a w Debe network 203 00:17:22.799 --> 00:17:27.440 to stream, we all operated on a thing called a VCR. And you 204 00:17:27.480 --> 00:17:32.279 know, more so than that, you would need to to make copies and 205 00:17:32.799 --> 00:17:37.599 w's events. So you know, for all the young bucks out there who 206 00:17:37.640 --> 00:17:41.359 don't know what a VCR is, enjoy the luxury of having every pay per 207 00:17:41.480 --> 00:17:48.039 view and documentary in a video library at your fingertips. And if anybody needs 208 00:17:48.039 --> 00:17:53.440 a visual just imagine the size of the first xbox. Pretty heavy, pretty 209 00:17:53.440 --> 00:18:00.640 wide, and you know that's what those things were. So if you knew 210 00:18:00.680 --> 00:18:03.960 somebody local to trade with, the all the better. But if not, 211 00:18:03.079 --> 00:18:08.319 you have to find somebody online that had an event that you wanted and you 212 00:18:08.359 --> 00:18:12.400 had wanted they wanted, so you would make a copy for yourself, then 213 00:18:12.480 --> 00:18:15.920 send them one and then they would send you a copy back in a return. 214 00:18:17.599 --> 00:18:23.759 So did either of you do any tape trading in those days? Yes, 215 00:18:26.000 --> 00:18:30.119 I mean yes, probably not to the extent of Mark, But I 216 00:18:30.160 --> 00:18:34.880 can tell you that I would always love to video record if I could. 217 00:18:34.880 --> 00:18:40.559 If I could afford it a tape you know that six bucks would you would 218 00:18:40.559 --> 00:18:48.200 be like twenty dollars now to see magnum Ta wrestle somebody on TVs, WTBS, 219 00:18:48.319 --> 00:18:52.640 excuse me my time. And it was. It was amazing stuff. 220 00:18:52.680 --> 00:18:56.319 But there was also like the underground where everybody started getting stuff. And then 221 00:18:56.440 --> 00:19:02.200 when you had that closed circuit which hadn't built pay per view yet. He 222 00:19:02.319 --> 00:19:07.119 said, we had these events in Minneapolis. We had these events down in 223 00:19:07.599 --> 00:19:12.279 Oklahoma. We had these events in Dallas, we had these events in Florida, 224 00:19:12.359 --> 00:19:15.240 we had these events in New York. Did I miss anything yet, 225 00:19:15.319 --> 00:19:21.319 Mark, any major territory? No, No, you nail them. And 226 00:19:21.559 --> 00:19:25.359 all those tapes had to be traded to other people because the tape trading, 227 00:19:25.680 --> 00:19:30.279 and something that we did not talk about before, was not only for the 228 00:19:30.359 --> 00:19:38.599 spectators, it was for the promoters and for the actual performers, the workers, 229 00:19:40.160 --> 00:19:44.759 because that's how they got all their work around. The tape trading actually 230 00:19:44.839 --> 00:19:51.440 came and started from the workers showing what they could do when they found a 231 00:19:51.519 --> 00:19:56.720 cheap way in VHS to send out their work to other people instead of relying 232 00:19:56.839 --> 00:20:03.799 upon promotors to save others things to promotors and hoping that they had nothing bad 233 00:20:03.839 --> 00:20:08.640 to say about them. So it was a different time. That was the 234 00:20:08.759 --> 00:20:15.400 birth, but it got really crazier and more important, and it bursts a 235 00:20:15.440 --> 00:20:18.319 lot more things and need a lot more things better Later on, Well, 236 00:20:18.400 --> 00:20:22.720 Mark, what do you remember about the tape trading era? Well, I'm 237 00:20:22.759 --> 00:20:29.880 gonna go a little bit further back, further than that xbox looking thing. 238 00:20:30.599 --> 00:20:34.799 I'm going to go back to how I got my knowledge and that came from 239 00:20:36.400 --> 00:20:44.480 wrestling magazines. You would go and that's each week when that truck stopped and 240 00:20:45.279 --> 00:20:49.400 dropped them bundles, you waited for the guy to put the Wrestling Illustrated Pro 241 00:20:49.519 --> 00:20:56.160 Wrestling there were there were several and you immediately opened it up and you went 242 00:20:56.200 --> 00:21:00.200 to the top ten and you would go, is you know to find out? 243 00:21:00.319 --> 00:21:03.000 Me being a Jerry Lawler fan growing up, I was always looking for 244 00:21:03.039 --> 00:21:06.759 the king on there. So where was it? Yet? Was he going 245 00:21:06.799 --> 00:21:11.799 to get a title match? So yeah, that's that's a little bit before 246 00:21:11.960 --> 00:21:18.119 tape trading. I remember having a w subscription, yearly subscription. I will 247 00:21:18.160 --> 00:21:21.599 good a new magazine every month in the mail, you know, with the 248 00:21:21.640 --> 00:21:26.960 bios and you know actually whoever was on the cover, whether it be either 249 00:21:26.079 --> 00:21:30.599 it ain't by ten or like a sixteen by twenty poster of the wrestler that 250 00:21:30.720 --> 00:21:33.000 was featured, and a couple of other ones. So my bedroom wall was 251 00:21:33.039 --> 00:21:37.839 literally filled from subsiding to the floor of all wrestling posters growing up as a 252 00:21:38.119 --> 00:21:45.160 young kid. Yeah, fair Foster, no mine u. You know now 253 00:21:45.200 --> 00:21:49.160 that I think about it. My older cousin had to have been heavy, 254 00:21:49.319 --> 00:21:53.720 heavy into tape trading and Devin tapes. So real quick, a little story 255 00:21:53.759 --> 00:21:57.039 about me. Um. My first pay per view event that I saw, 256 00:21:57.079 --> 00:22:00.640 I was wrestling A twelve. I remember asking my dad's to bias one for 257 00:22:00.720 --> 00:22:06.039 me, because you know, h became bread with my guys. I knew 258 00:22:06.079 --> 00:22:08.680 there were eleven Rossomanias before that one, but I had no way to access 259 00:22:08.880 --> 00:22:15.119 to watch these past events, So Resumed twelve took place in April of ninety 260 00:22:15.160 --> 00:22:18.079 six, when I was nine years old. That summer, I went to 261 00:22:18.160 --> 00:22:22.039 my uncle's to visit for two weeks and come to find out that there were 262 00:22:22.079 --> 00:22:26.240 stacks and stacks of VHS tapes that my cousin had, and now he did 263 00:22:26.279 --> 00:22:30.480 have most of the previous eleven Russomanias, some of the Rumbles, Summer Slam, 264 00:22:30.559 --> 00:22:33.680 Survirus series events, and a few of the in Your House events as 265 00:22:33.720 --> 00:22:38.440 well. Up to this point in the summer of ninety six, I had 266 00:22:38.480 --> 00:22:42.960 been to a handful of house shows down here in Texas and had watched as 267 00:22:42.960 --> 00:22:48.200 many Monday Night laws as possible. The passion that burns inside me for this 268 00:22:48.319 --> 00:22:53.119 industry was set on fire as an eternal flame that could never be extinguished. 269 00:22:53.240 --> 00:22:59.279 That summer after I was able to trace back and watch some of the most 270 00:22:59.279 --> 00:23:03.920 significant matches in DEBI history. I got to see things like Hogan versus Warrior, 271 00:23:04.680 --> 00:23:11.279 Hogan Slam, Andre, Steamboat versus Savage Red versus Own Win. I 272 00:23:11.359 --> 00:23:15.200 got to see HPK's two Rumbo wins, Flair Win the Title, and ninety 273 00:23:15.200 --> 00:23:19.240 two, you know, Undertaker's debut. You know, big moments like that. 274 00:23:19.920 --> 00:23:26.400 So imagine being a baby when the Attitude Era began, flourished and passed. 275 00:23:26.720 --> 00:23:30.279 Then by the time the Rutus Aggression era was ushered in is when you 276 00:23:30.319 --> 00:23:36.559 started to really become a wrestling fan but didn't know about or hadn't seen the 277 00:23:36.599 --> 00:23:40.160 best of the best from the Attitude era. Then you go over to a 278 00:23:40.200 --> 00:23:44.759 friend or family member's house and they have all of the Attitude Arab paper reviews 279 00:23:44.799 --> 00:23:48.519 available for you to go back and watch. It was it would be like 280 00:23:48.559 --> 00:23:52.480 finding a pot of gold. So after realizing that my cousin was a total 281 00:23:52.519 --> 00:23:56.880 bootlegger and how he must have got all these events on tight on tape, 282 00:23:57.640 --> 00:24:03.519 I started to think of the Terror Tories and the Independent and how they would 283 00:24:03.559 --> 00:24:07.559 get their product out without a TV deal. How would they survive and how 284 00:24:07.559 --> 00:24:11.240 would they make a profit. So my question is to you too, is 285 00:24:11.799 --> 00:24:18.319 which, if any promotion had there been that's solely dependent on tape trading to 286 00:24:18.400 --> 00:24:25.799 get their product out. Oh wow, that's interesting. Quick, Well I 287 00:24:26.200 --> 00:24:30.480 would have to ask which era, I mean, AWA could have survived another 288 00:24:30.319 --> 00:24:34.599 five years off of it. We look at I mean, I'm sorry, 289 00:24:34.640 --> 00:24:41.680 I'm Mark, I'm I'm gonna you know me, Jim Crockett promotions. If 290 00:24:41.680 --> 00:24:45.799 they knew what their library was worth. The fact is they couldn't sell to 291 00:24:45.960 --> 00:24:51.359 people who weren't born yet. So some of a fish. And then we 292 00:24:51.480 --> 00:24:57.920 look at I mean, you look at a modern day. So Mark, 293 00:24:59.000 --> 00:25:02.440 take me over because I'm dominate this conversation. Well, no, I was 294 00:25:02.480 --> 00:25:06.680 just I was going to throw in, you know, you've got to ECW. 295 00:25:07.400 --> 00:25:11.160 You know, got a lot out before they got on TV when and 296 00:25:11.240 --> 00:25:17.079 actually I think they for a little while they called it something a little different. 297 00:25:17.319 --> 00:25:18.680 I'm not even sure when they were trying to do some of the tapes. 298 00:25:19.119 --> 00:25:23.440 But yeah, you had in the old days, you had the wrestlers 299 00:25:23.440 --> 00:25:29.079 that were selling some of these things that were big time. You had wrestlers 300 00:25:29.119 --> 00:25:33.759 that were selling VH test But that was at the end of the merchandise style. 301 00:25:34.039 --> 00:25:40.480 It was like the most expensive thing there. But go ahead, I'm 302 00:25:40.480 --> 00:25:42.799 sorry, no, I was gonna say, well, I don't mean to 303 00:25:42.880 --> 00:25:48.279 interject. But ce ECW did have their roots in tape trading because a lot 304 00:25:48.319 --> 00:25:52.680 of their production was done by Gabe's Pulsky and it was also done by Rob 305 00:25:52.720 --> 00:25:57.039 Feinstein. And of course we all know that Rob Finstein was the king of 306 00:25:57.160 --> 00:26:02.000 tape trading and he still had a lot of stuff online or things like that. 307 00:26:02.039 --> 00:26:07.319 But Gabe Paulsky is a brilliant man and he was his backup. I 308 00:26:07.480 --> 00:26:11.000 bought a lot of tapes from them. But that was like the right place, 309 00:26:11.160 --> 00:26:18.920 right time for anything that was happening. Any ECW wasn't called indie, 310 00:26:18.960 --> 00:26:22.200 but it was indie. It was recognized as a world title at one point, 311 00:26:22.200 --> 00:26:26.559 which is weird, but I mean it was an aftermag So how really 312 00:26:26.440 --> 00:26:30.960 recognized is it? But brass tacks and baseball bats. When it comes down 313 00:26:32.000 --> 00:26:37.119 to it, everything that was going through there was done by a couple of 314 00:26:37.240 --> 00:26:41.079 kids who were doing a lot of tape trading and doing a lot of stuff 315 00:26:41.079 --> 00:26:45.640 that they were filming at ringside, and I think that they are brilliance was 316 00:26:45.839 --> 00:26:52.680 what really was the nineties tape trading as opposed to the eighties, which is 317 00:26:52.680 --> 00:26:56.960 what you and I would see, which is getting really garbage tapes from like 318 00:26:59.279 --> 00:27:06.079 mid Cell, like Ted DBAs taking on you know, Steve Williams in a 319 00:27:06.119 --> 00:27:10.880 blood bat that lasted half an hour and it broke up versus you know, 320 00:27:11.000 --> 00:27:18.559 Feinstein gave Spolski doing something that's like the best you could do with VHS in 321 00:27:18.720 --> 00:27:22.759 nineteen ninety eight. There was a difference there and that that made a really 322 00:27:22.799 --> 00:27:30.680 big difference in the style of wrestling and how wrestling became more prominent with other 323 00:27:30.839 --> 00:27:40.960 promotions that were outside WW outside WCW, ECW very much was prominent. Smoky 324 00:27:41.039 --> 00:27:47.559 Mountain didn't benefit from it, but New Japan and all Japan did at the 325 00:27:47.680 --> 00:27:52.720 time. Everything in Japan that was that was the only way you got it. 326 00:27:52.559 --> 00:27:59.079 You know, before cable that the only way to find out who the 327 00:27:59.160 --> 00:28:03.480 Great Baba was. Then if you don't know who the Great Baba was, 328 00:28:03.680 --> 00:28:11.000 go look him up. I remember my first DVD that I bought on my 329 00:28:11.079 --> 00:28:18.680 own was in ECW, like most violence Match Matches DVD. Um it must 330 00:28:18.720 --> 00:28:23.960 have been I think it was right after r VD must have debuted. Um, 331 00:28:25.160 --> 00:28:29.119 because when I saw this ECWM DVD, when I saw his name on, 332 00:28:29.279 --> 00:28:30.680 you know, on the back of the match list, I just knew 333 00:28:30.680 --> 00:28:40.160 I wanted to buy it right away. You know. I looked back at 334 00:28:40.279 --> 00:28:45.200 like every time I would sit there. Well, I only went to a 335 00:28:45.240 --> 00:28:48.400 few shows, okay, because I didn't have a whole lot of money, 336 00:28:48.680 --> 00:28:55.640 that's pretty honest. And one ECW show, I think it was ninety nine 337 00:28:55.960 --> 00:29:00.559 something like that, and I wanted to go Take and Whiz and my friend 338 00:29:00.680 --> 00:29:04.839 Don did instead of me, but I didn't. And it was a premium 339 00:29:04.880 --> 00:29:10.039 live show because it was ECW, so every show was a premium live show 340 00:29:10.119 --> 00:29:17.680 for them. And I come back and I'm just spending time at the merch 341 00:29:17.799 --> 00:29:22.119 table which was our video and was looking all these tapes and everything else, 342 00:29:22.160 --> 00:29:23.920 and I'm like, wow, I just want to buy all this. So 343 00:29:25.000 --> 00:29:26.720 I would ask him like should I get this one to that one? And 344 00:29:27.160 --> 00:29:30.839 they just buy the DVD just by this, just by that, and I'm 345 00:29:30.839 --> 00:29:37.240 like, that's not cool. Now. I remember, I know what Gabe 346 00:29:37.279 --> 00:29:41.400 Zapolsky looks like. He wasn't there. I think it was probably Rob Feinstein. 347 00:29:41.559 --> 00:29:47.039 I don't care. The point is like talking up a little bit. 348 00:29:47.039 --> 00:29:48.440 If you want to sell something like, if you really want this, do 349 00:29:48.559 --> 00:29:51.680 this. If you really want to do that, do that. But I'm 350 00:29:51.720 --> 00:29:55.119 in a different industry. Mark was in a different industry. You're a different 351 00:29:55.160 --> 00:30:02.599 industry. You don't just say get it. Imagine if somebody walked onto a 352 00:30:02.759 --> 00:30:07.000 car line and said, well, I don't know, get it. That's 353 00:30:07.000 --> 00:30:11.680 where you think get it. So that was my experience. I think with 354 00:30:11.880 --> 00:30:18.319 Rob Binstein, I really think it was so. But so let's move forward, 355 00:30:18.920 --> 00:30:22.559 all right. So moving along into the nineties, WWD was going through 356 00:30:22.599 --> 00:30:29.519 a metamorphosis. The steroid era shook up the foundation of what a prototype championship 357 00:30:29.599 --> 00:30:33.119 look like. Who huge stars like Hogan Savage, Lex Lucas, Scott Hall, 358 00:30:33.200 --> 00:30:38.400 and Kevin Nashwood jumping ships to ww plus the silly gimmicks made the WWE 359 00:30:38.640 --> 00:30:44.640 two cartoonish. The first half of the decade had wb looking like it could 360 00:30:44.680 --> 00:30:48.319 not keep up with the times that were changing, and the company was on 361 00:30:48.359 --> 00:30:52.119 the brink of bankruptcy. Ww needed to make some changes and needed to mature 362 00:30:52.160 --> 00:30:56.759 as a company. As we would see in the latter half of the ninety 363 00:30:56.000 --> 00:31:03.240 WWE would propel itself who unforeseen heights with the birth of the Attitude era during 364 00:31:03.279 --> 00:31:08.599 the first half of that decade, What do y'all think played the most significant 365 00:31:08.640 --> 00:31:14.000 part and the changes that ww would have to make to stay on our TV 366 00:31:14.119 --> 00:31:26.839 screens and to keep us fans buying pay per views? They yea, yes. 367 00:31:26.960 --> 00:31:34.480 The basic of this was the WCW was listening to the fans at that 368 00:31:34.599 --> 00:31:41.440 time and writing according accordingly, and wwe had gotten so like you had mentioned 369 00:31:42.240 --> 00:31:51.240 Rocky a comical and unbelievable and uh, you know it just it took WCW 370 00:31:52.200 --> 00:31:55.920 beating them in the ratings, of course, for them to actually see their 371 00:31:56.319 --> 00:32:02.920 mistakes and they corrected them, though they did correct them. Look, I 372 00:32:04.079 --> 00:32:07.240 looked back into history, and I look back at like what pay per view 373 00:32:07.240 --> 00:32:13.440 buys were, and we get a look at the nineties after the steroid era 374 00:32:13.640 --> 00:32:17.359 and the new generation and what we were going into. We only had like 375 00:32:17.400 --> 00:32:23.880 a few top stars and then they were trying to buy out younger territories or 376 00:32:24.000 --> 00:32:30.039 younger territory talent Chris Candidos, which they burned out. And I bet if 377 00:32:30.079 --> 00:32:35.880 he is in a room with Sean Hell and Michael or Sean Michaels in Hell, 378 00:32:35.960 --> 00:32:37.400 He's going to beat the hell out of him, and Michaels will never 379 00:32:37.440 --> 00:32:43.480 get out. You gotta live. Hey, it's my show. I could 380 00:32:43.480 --> 00:32:47.519 say whatever I want. You got to look at the fact that they were 381 00:32:47.559 --> 00:32:52.400 borrowing from ECW. But they made dirty, dirty deals with ECW. They 382 00:32:52.400 --> 00:32:58.079 made dirty deals with well, they made public deals with Smoky Mountain because Cornett 383 00:32:58.160 --> 00:33:04.519 does pretty much bub but they were seeing who was left. They were buying 384 00:33:04.519 --> 00:33:08.680 stuff out. They were doing really poor pay per view by race. I 385 00:33:08.680 --> 00:33:12.519 mean, we used to call it like the Yonner and Yonkers. When you'd 386 00:33:12.519 --> 00:33:15.559 find like the godwins versus the Body, Donna is like, yeah, you 387 00:33:15.640 --> 00:33:22.279 want me to buy something like that. So everything is going through a downward 388 00:33:22.480 --> 00:33:29.880 spiral, and it's I hate that term. What I prefer is a tornado. 389 00:33:30.480 --> 00:33:36.200 It's a tornado because it's a downward spirals being flushed down the toilet. 390 00:33:36.839 --> 00:33:42.200 Okay, it's gone. A tornado creates a path of destruction that you have 391 00:33:42.319 --> 00:33:47.160 to learn from, and that's what that was setting the path for. And 392 00:33:47.200 --> 00:33:52.079 so they were looking at a lot of indie talent, but they the pay 393 00:33:52.079 --> 00:33:58.240 per view producing at that point was sub level. It was subhuman. It 394 00:33:58.400 --> 00:34:07.079 was sub so with that, you know, a nice little segue of sub 395 00:34:07.119 --> 00:34:10.840 premium. I want to talk about the quote unquote B level pay per views. 396 00:34:12.320 --> 00:34:15.119 After all, the B level pay per views make up two thirds of 397 00:34:15.159 --> 00:34:19.760 the year. First of all, I don't like that we call them B 398 00:34:19.920 --> 00:34:23.199 level. After all, it is the main roster. You know, rosters 399 00:34:23.199 --> 00:34:28.760 all over the world dream of making it to the WW main roster. When 400 00:34:28.760 --> 00:34:31.280 I think of B level, I used to think of NXT, But even 401 00:34:31.360 --> 00:34:36.119 the NXT roster wants to make it to the main roster of SmackDown or Raw. 402 00:34:37.079 --> 00:34:40.239 And my eyes, if you made it to WW, then you made 403 00:34:40.239 --> 00:34:45.920 it to the main roster. If you're featured on a main roster pl E, 404 00:34:45.840 --> 00:34:50.480 then again, in my eyes, you are on a level pay per 405 00:34:50.559 --> 00:34:54.159 view. After all, WW is the mech of sports entertainment. Agreed, 406 00:34:55.320 --> 00:35:01.199 absolutely, Okay, so there's always spend the pillars what we call the Big 407 00:35:01.239 --> 00:35:07.079 four, which is Royal Rumble Wills, Lmania, Summer's Landman, Servirus Series. 408 00:35:07.400 --> 00:35:09.960 But back in the early nineties it was actually considered the Big five, 409 00:35:10.599 --> 00:35:15.639 with the King of the Ring being an established and respected pay per view in 410 00:35:15.760 --> 00:35:20.239 those years. The In Your House series was brought to you fruition in ninety 411 00:35:20.239 --> 00:35:24.039 five to be the quote B level pay per view that will take place between 412 00:35:24.079 --> 00:35:30.400 the major pay per views. Then the in your House shows would continue until 413 00:35:30.480 --> 00:35:36.280 February of ninety nine for the Saint Valentine's Day massacre event. This would also 414 00:35:36.320 --> 00:35:40.400 be the final in your House held as the company moved to install permanent names 415 00:35:40.400 --> 00:35:45.079 for each of its monthly pay per views, which began with backlash in April 416 00:35:45.079 --> 00:35:51.320 of ninety nine. So the in your House pay per view was the original 417 00:35:51.440 --> 00:35:55.039 be level pay per view. So let's talk about some of these quote unquote 418 00:35:55.199 --> 00:36:00.360 level pay per views. First, I would like to ask Yad's opinion on 419 00:36:00.440 --> 00:36:05.800 the gimmick pay per view events that we have like elimination Chamber and a sale 420 00:36:05.840 --> 00:36:10.639 and money in the bank. I hate them all, to be honest with 421 00:36:10.679 --> 00:36:15.400 you. It's a lazy booking. You can quote me as the number one 422 00:36:15.760 --> 00:36:22.760 best podcaster in Louisville when I said it, okay, let's just make it 423 00:36:22.840 --> 00:36:25.239 one of that and do that. No, I don't like that. That's 424 00:36:25.440 --> 00:36:30.719 that's why you have to build stories. That That was the whole thing with 425 00:36:30.840 --> 00:36:35.679 getting rid of actual story writers who made things event Four times a year was 426 00:36:35.760 --> 00:36:39.920 better than twelve times a year and I mean, I'm old, I get 427 00:36:39.960 --> 00:36:45.480 it. But you know what, my favorite movie in the whole world is 428 00:36:45.519 --> 00:36:51.360 The Wizard of Oz. And if you gave me every segment of the Wizard 429 00:36:51.400 --> 00:36:55.599 of Oz in a year, I would not really like it as much as 430 00:36:55.639 --> 00:37:00.760 I do in one movie, and that should be so mania, So how 431 00:37:00.800 --> 00:37:07.880 do I build to that it was the yellow bit brick road. I don't 432 00:37:07.880 --> 00:37:12.960 get that anymore. I get every little side road and every little character that 433 00:37:13.039 --> 00:37:19.679 we never cared about. So that's how I feel about all those little d 434 00:37:20.119 --> 00:37:23.679 level papers used and everything that they kind of broke up. I understand why 435 00:37:23.719 --> 00:37:29.239 they did things back in the day, but it's really bad that it's fallen 436 00:37:29.360 --> 00:37:35.559 so far from what it really could be. It's not Yeah, they when 437 00:37:35.599 --> 00:37:39.519 they took the building of the storyline out of it, that kind of watered 438 00:37:39.559 --> 00:37:44.159 it down. And then yeah, you got it every month, and they 439 00:37:45.239 --> 00:37:47.800 didn't. They did the short pound, they did the like a week or 440 00:37:47.800 --> 00:37:52.280 two before, and they it was just it's not the same and they're still 441 00:37:52.360 --> 00:37:55.960 using the same template as they did back in the day, and but the 442 00:37:57.000 --> 00:38:00.280 product has changed and they haven't caught up with that. So that is what 443 00:38:00.320 --> 00:38:06.800 we're going to be force fed. I believe guys. I believe you guys 444 00:38:06.800 --> 00:38:10.760 are right. Um, hopefully they do do away with you know, these 445 00:38:10.760 --> 00:38:15.480 domain pay per views. I think maybe her themsell I was gonna be first 446 00:38:15.480 --> 00:38:20.679 to go. Um. I believe that's what the rumor is. But you 447 00:38:20.719 --> 00:38:23.719 know, time will tell. Hopefully Triplated stays in charge long enough to implement 448 00:38:23.760 --> 00:38:30.320 these changes and make the permanent. But back to the Big five that we 449 00:38:30.480 --> 00:38:32.079 used to have, with King of the Ring being you know that in that 450 00:38:32.159 --> 00:38:38.519 fifth spot. This was one of my favorite concepts. But for the last 451 00:38:38.599 --> 00:38:43.800 five years or so, the only thing royal about this tournament is that it's 452 00:38:43.800 --> 00:38:46.400 been a royal pain in my book. Why well, let's look at the 453 00:38:46.440 --> 00:38:51.400 past few winners. The last successful king that we had, in my opinion, 454 00:38:51.519 --> 00:38:52.760 was King Booker, and that was all the way back in two thousand 455 00:38:52.800 --> 00:38:59.360 and six. Four years past to twenty ten, we get King Shamas, 456 00:38:59.559 --> 00:39:05.239 nothing said. Five years later we get King Wade Barrett not too significant. 457 00:39:05.960 --> 00:39:08.440 Four years down the line in twenty nineteen, King Corbin, and then, 458 00:39:08.480 --> 00:39:12.880 of course, you know, probably one of the worst kings of all two 459 00:39:12.960 --> 00:39:19.239 years ago and Xavier Woods now like really like Xavier Woods was our last king 460 00:39:19.840 --> 00:39:25.039 with no significant you know, push, no title opportunity, and Romans stopped 461 00:39:25.079 --> 00:39:30.880 the crown and dispected the whole concept, and that that kind of take me 462 00:39:30.920 --> 00:39:36.440 off. I mean, what the f capital endpoint of crowning the new King 463 00:39:36.599 --> 00:39:40.760 of the Ring if with you know, no significant push. I honestly think 464 00:39:40.840 --> 00:39:45.679 it was. This was nothing more than a consolation prize for Woods because KOFE 465 00:39:45.679 --> 00:39:50.840 and Biggie got their title, Notch and I don't believe Woods ever will get 466 00:39:50.880 --> 00:39:58.599 that push. You never will. It's too small. I mean, look, 467 00:39:58.679 --> 00:40:02.280 everyone talks about like Ballard being too small. The guy could also like 468 00:40:02.440 --> 00:40:07.000 quit today, be a model and make multimillions of dollars. But he's also 469 00:40:07.280 --> 00:40:13.039 multitalented. He's also the guy that you wouldn't have a w if you didn't 470 00:40:13.039 --> 00:40:16.400 have thin ballor people don't know that, but people are idiots because they follow 471 00:40:16.599 --> 00:40:23.760 WWE sometimes. Okay, so let's talk about realism and what the King of 472 00:40:23.840 --> 00:40:32.199 the Ring means to me. And never met a thing I've censored myself. 473 00:40:32.880 --> 00:40:38.320 I've always saw it as a BS crown. It's it's always garbage to me. 474 00:40:38.400 --> 00:40:42.280 And I'm like, I love because we're going to go back and forth 475 00:40:42.320 --> 00:40:45.840 on this one and Mark you, I definitely want to hear this one on 476 00:40:45.880 --> 00:40:53.280 this one, but I've never thought it's anything but defecating on the under titles. 477 00:40:54.920 --> 00:40:59.320 And it's like, well, we've got somebody who's going to be between 478 00:40:59.360 --> 00:41:06.440 the innerco Oinental and the heavyweight champion, but we don't know how to push 479 00:41:06.480 --> 00:41:09.199 him, so we're gonna give him this King of the Ring. Come on, 480 00:41:10.440 --> 00:41:16.519 That's the way any wrestling historian I thought saw it, and then anybody 481 00:41:16.559 --> 00:41:24.199 who was an actual champion, it was backwards because watch a man, Randy 482 00:41:24.280 --> 00:41:29.239 Savage was already a world champion. Then it becomes King of the Ring and 483 00:41:29.400 --> 00:41:35.119 he has to celebrate. What what do you really have to celebrate? Let 484 00:41:35.119 --> 00:41:38.480 me challenge you with that. Let me ask you what you really have to 485 00:41:38.599 --> 00:41:42.760 challenge after you've already been a champion and now all of a sudden you have 486 00:41:43.000 --> 00:41:46.880 nothing, but you get to be carried to the ring. So it's garbage 487 00:41:46.920 --> 00:41:52.079 to me. But yeah, it's supposed to be above Oh no, let 488 00:41:52.119 --> 00:41:57.719 me go. It's supposed to be above the Intercontinental. Now, those are 489 00:41:57.760 --> 00:42:00.079 the best workers in the world, and then you look at some of these 490 00:42:00.159 --> 00:42:07.039 Kings of the Ring and the best disappointment ever everybody knows is probably Nabel, 491 00:42:07.639 --> 00:42:15.360 obviously Nabel, and then the other one is Billy Gunn. And I'm sorry, 492 00:42:15.400 --> 00:42:16.519 Billy Gunn. If you're gonna beat my ass, go ahead. If 493 00:42:16.559 --> 00:42:20.079 you're astronomy, you're gonna beat the hell I mean, I don't care. 494 00:42:20.400 --> 00:42:24.440 I'll segmenthis mark on you. Sorry, buddy, But brass stacks and baseball 495 00:42:24.480 --> 00:42:32.320 bats, what does it really mean? You don't have the speaking everything. 496 00:42:32.440 --> 00:42:38.239 I hate that pay per view. I'm sorry. I am glad. It's 497 00:42:38.360 --> 00:42:45.079 not celebrated. It doesn't mean anything. It was just something for them to 498 00:42:45.159 --> 00:42:47.639 do. An I grab to say, look at this person too, But 499 00:42:47.800 --> 00:42:54.400 everybody they did it with minus and those three or four people who they were 500 00:42:54.519 --> 00:42:59.400 hoping that's really why they created, like we hope these guys do it, 501 00:42:59.440 --> 00:43:07.400 but anybody else were great. You didn't need a pay per view organically, 502 00:43:08.159 --> 00:43:13.199 right, So let me ask you this, what would you do different with 503 00:43:14.840 --> 00:43:24.360 the winner with the winner of like the the Oh yeah, well, if 504 00:43:24.400 --> 00:43:28.199 you won the King of the Ring, I give you the thirtieth spot in 505 00:43:28.199 --> 00:43:32.519 the Royal Rumble. But I want to get away from stipulations and stuff like 506 00:43:32.559 --> 00:43:36.599 that for pay per views. But it makes the most sense to make it 507 00:43:36.800 --> 00:43:43.239 the most prestigious, so you have something means something else something later, and 508 00:43:43.239 --> 00:43:45.960 then you can have people kind of feud over it and well, I'll bet 509 00:43:45.960 --> 00:43:49.800 it for you and bet it back. But at least you can create a 510 00:43:49.840 --> 00:43:54.760 storyline that way right now, like storyline pay per views are just whatever? 511 00:43:58.719 --> 00:44:04.360 Okay, that um you know, the king get returning. It's usually held 512 00:44:04.440 --> 00:44:07.199 in the last quarter of the year or so, so you could have the 513 00:44:07.239 --> 00:44:13.679 winner, you know, come out with the crown and scepter, maybe for 514 00:44:13.719 --> 00:44:17.760 a couple of months, even if they were to keep on with the accent 515 00:44:19.440 --> 00:44:23.440 up into the rumble, and then they would know, quote unquote catching the 516 00:44:23.480 --> 00:44:27.679 opportunity for the thirtieth spot, and then after the rumble, they could, 517 00:44:27.840 --> 00:44:30.159 you know, more or less drop the gimmick. They could still keep the 518 00:44:30.199 --> 00:44:32.079 moniker, but they don't have to keep up the gimmick. But yeah, 519 00:44:32.159 --> 00:44:36.880 I like that idea. What do you think, Mark? Yeah, I 520 00:44:36.960 --> 00:44:40.920 can go along the spot definitely. But you know, I'm a little funny 521 00:44:40.960 --> 00:44:45.679 about this because I come from a city that had our own king, King 522 00:44:45.760 --> 00:44:51.039 Jerry Longer, so I was a little different on that. And they've taken 523 00:44:51.519 --> 00:44:58.599 when they take somebody like Harley Race a freaking a legend, and they make 524 00:44:58.679 --> 00:45:05.920 him do these stupid promos with Andre and stuff and over in Europe and just 525 00:45:06.960 --> 00:45:09.840 it was wrong. It's wrong. The whole concept of that is wrong. 526 00:45:10.039 --> 00:45:16.039 And UH match okay, spot okay, all of the Malarchy and the Shenanigans 527 00:45:16.119 --> 00:45:22.559 craps that they pull off, No, no, totally against it all right, 528 00:45:22.039 --> 00:45:27.320 well, so let's just keep the training rolling. Um I do want 529 00:45:27.360 --> 00:45:30.199 to talk about some other legacy of pay per views. Um I have an 530 00:45:30.239 --> 00:45:35.519 honorable mention here for Vengeance two thousand and five, and I give credit to 531 00:45:35.559 --> 00:45:37.920 Anthony D. Marco for his retro show on his pay per view that he 532 00:45:38.239 --> 00:45:40.960 released on me first, So if you guys haven't heard it, go back 533 00:45:42.000 --> 00:45:45.760 and listen. You know what I really like about his retro show and our 534 00:45:45.800 --> 00:45:51.039 Wrestle Magic show is that they're not weekly weecaps, so they're good to listen 535 00:45:51.079 --> 00:45:55.079 literally anytime of the year. But that that particular event saw you know, 536 00:45:55.280 --> 00:46:00.280 HBK versus Kurdeingo and then the heading a sale match when it mean something between 537 00:46:00.360 --> 00:46:07.039 Batista and Tribal ch which was their the capop for the third UH for the 538 00:46:07.119 --> 00:46:10.519 trilogy. So I woant to honorable mention that one, and I would like 539 00:46:10.559 --> 00:46:14.880 to honorable mention um the Invasion pay per view in two thousand and one. 540 00:46:15.519 --> 00:46:20.519 I was fourteen at the time, and I thought when ww you know, 541 00:46:21.280 --> 00:46:23.760 w like, it was so huge. You know, I didn't have the 542 00:46:23.840 --> 00:46:29.400 business mind too to understand that there was only going to be one place to 543 00:46:29.440 --> 00:46:34.519 work and they were gonna have to cram everybody you know on the roster um. 544 00:46:34.559 --> 00:46:37.079 But when guys started showing up on w WTV, I was it was 545 00:46:37.119 --> 00:46:43.840 just a very very exciting type of me as a teenager. Um. Either 546 00:46:43.960 --> 00:46:50.800 you guys like that yourselves or that that was a different time. It was. 547 00:46:53.199 --> 00:47:00.320 I never wanted anything just to be completely bought, and I was in 548 00:47:00.880 --> 00:47:07.119 a different mode of my life saying, well, I'm gonna step away from 549 00:47:07.119 --> 00:47:14.599 wrestling because it's all gonna be Evinces now and I'm out of Vince Fan and 550 00:47:14.679 --> 00:47:19.280 so that's basically the way it went. And so I knew that everything that 551 00:47:19.400 --> 00:47:22.599 was produced at that point was going to be sports entertainment versus wrestling, and 552 00:47:23.039 --> 00:47:28.159 it was also prior to than that. But it wasn't what I wanted. 553 00:47:28.239 --> 00:47:37.400 It wasn't my praying that my family could make some money so I could watch 554 00:47:37.519 --> 00:47:42.679 war games when it meant something. When I had the Road Warriors and Nikki 555 00:47:42.719 --> 00:47:49.719 to Koloff and Dusty against yeah, the four Horsemen and a war Machine which 556 00:47:49.800 --> 00:47:52.519 was big Bubba. But you know, honestly, the first one was better 557 00:47:52.599 --> 00:47:57.519 with g J. Dilly. It was just it was great. That was 558 00:47:58.280 --> 00:48:02.920 so much musty TV. And I knew when all that happened that some kind 559 00:48:02.960 --> 00:48:09.840 of die. I see where you're coming from with that, and it would 560 00:48:09.920 --> 00:48:13.920 be a couple of years before we got the big names like the nWo and 561 00:48:14.000 --> 00:48:19.800 Goldberg and so forth and so on. But um, I don't know. 562 00:48:19.960 --> 00:48:24.119 I guess. I guess for me being strictly a w WF guy, a 563 00:48:24.280 --> 00:48:28.920 raw guy, you know, during the Monday Night Wars, it just felt 564 00:48:28.920 --> 00:48:32.480 good for me knowing that my team won. So let's keep this again, 565 00:48:32.519 --> 00:48:37.280 just keep on going. I'm gonna just do some rocket Cheese rapid fire here 566 00:48:37.360 --> 00:48:39.320 with some of the legacy pay per views. If there's anything significant you want 567 00:48:39.320 --> 00:48:45.800 to point out to stop me. So we had fast Lane, Cyber Sunday, 568 00:48:46.320 --> 00:48:55.079 fully Loaded, Armageddon, m Forgiving, Taboo Tuesday, Battleground Taboo Tuesday. 569 00:48:55.119 --> 00:48:59.760 That one was cool. Yeah, very interactive for its time. We 570 00:49:00.039 --> 00:49:05.559 had Judgment Day, No Marcy Breakdown, no Way Out like we mentioned earlier, 571 00:49:06.360 --> 00:49:12.440 Great Balls of Fire. Oh yeah, you know what you did? 572 00:49:12.440 --> 00:49:14.559 Tell me that you're right, I should have took that off, okay, 573 00:49:14.760 --> 00:49:22.199 Um, bragging rights over the Edge, great American badge, breaking point American 574 00:49:22.719 --> 00:49:27.360 for nostalgia alone for Dusty. Yes, and I really loved that they brought 575 00:49:27.400 --> 00:49:32.559 it back to n XT right. And then we have a New Year's Revolution 576 00:49:34.079 --> 00:49:37.880 um, which was a big well, the two thousand and six one was 577 00:49:38.000 --> 00:49:42.599 big for me because I was the first money in the bank cashing with Edge 578 00:49:42.599 --> 00:49:47.400 over Sena and I just very very much Despisinga at the time. Uh. 579 00:49:47.800 --> 00:49:52.840 Then there's Bad Blood, which was the very first head in the sale match 580 00:49:52.920 --> 00:49:58.519 between HPK and Taker, which also had Kane's debut. And then we have 581 00:49:58.599 --> 00:50:01.480 some of the UK tours, you know, like an Insurrection, which was 582 00:50:01.559 --> 00:50:07.760 the grounds for the plane right from Hell that happened on this tour. Do 583 00:50:07.800 --> 00:50:12.960 you like Insurrection? Yeah? Did I say that wrong? No? You 584 00:50:13.079 --> 00:50:17.360 did? Okay? And then um, another one of my favorite concepts is 585 00:50:17.440 --> 00:50:21.840 Knight of Champions. Now, I really like this concept of this pay per 586 00:50:21.880 --> 00:50:27.440 view because of course every Championship is defended on this night, you know, 587 00:50:27.480 --> 00:50:32.119 in my opinion, if not all, but it came from WCW right. 588 00:50:34.039 --> 00:50:37.679 In my opinion, if not all, most championships should be defended at any 589 00:50:37.760 --> 00:50:44.199 given pay per review. But you know, news just broke recently that King 590 00:50:44.360 --> 00:50:50.760 and Queen Paper or pre Lee has been changed to Night of Champions. So 591 00:50:50.800 --> 00:50:55.159 what do you guys think of WWD actually reviving the Night of the Knight of 592 00:50:55.239 --> 00:51:00.440 Champions pay review or pere lee for romans, I was in day celebration. 593 00:51:02.639 --> 00:51:10.119 Well that I can almost I get behind, and I agree every event that 594 00:51:10.239 --> 00:51:16.039 you're paying for or used to pay for, you should get some championship matches. 595 00:51:16.679 --> 00:51:21.360 That is what it was supposed to be like. And where it got 596 00:51:21.440 --> 00:51:25.320 changed and when it got changed is kind of stupid, you know, stupid 597 00:51:25.360 --> 00:51:31.960 to me, but there is just my opinion. So you're ready for Grandpa 598 00:51:32.079 --> 00:51:38.960 to take off as slippers ready, alright? So Nine the Champions was something 599 00:51:39.079 --> 00:51:45.159 special and it was something that you should hold, so they want to give 600 00:51:45.159 --> 00:51:50.559 it away. They don't want to always use key elle with it, but 601 00:51:50.679 --> 00:51:57.239 they associated with it because None of the Champions was really the first free per 602 00:51:57.480 --> 00:52:08.960 view it was on TBS at like five o'clock on a Sunday or a Saturday 603 00:52:09.039 --> 00:52:14.119 or Friday or something like. It was it was white trash delight. I 604 00:52:15.039 --> 00:52:19.159 was it, So I can honestly say that, and it was it. 605 00:52:20.079 --> 00:52:23.360 So they are revisiting this, and I love the fact that they're gonna, 606 00:52:23.400 --> 00:52:30.119 like say, deal with it. Well, we'll see how long it actually 607 00:52:30.199 --> 00:52:36.760 sticks around for maybe it's another one officers for the celebration. But speaking of 608 00:52:36.800 --> 00:52:39.440 one offs, we have had a few one off pay per views, like 609 00:52:39.519 --> 00:52:45.880 the Insurrection one last year, we had Clash at the Castle. When I 610 00:52:45.920 --> 00:52:50.400 was checking the PL events for this year, Raw thirty was actually on the 611 00:52:50.519 --> 00:52:53.960 PL list for twenty two and three, so you could consider that a one 612 00:52:53.960 --> 00:53:00.519 off. But one of my personal favorite one offs of all time is the 613 00:53:00.519 --> 00:53:06.039 one i'd only in Birmingham, England, with the main event of HBK versus 614 00:53:06.039 --> 00:53:09.199 the British Bool Dog for the European Championship. This happened in ninety seven. 615 00:53:12.079 --> 00:53:15.480 I remember this match feeling like a big, big deal. I was ten 616 00:53:16.320 --> 00:53:22.280 at this time and I could literally feel the animosity of the crowd towards HBK, 617 00:53:22.800 --> 00:53:27.000 you know, keeping him mind HBK. It's my guy. I knew 618 00:53:27.000 --> 00:53:30.840 I wanted HBK to win, but I honestly didn't think it was going to 619 00:53:30.920 --> 00:53:36.320 happen. And then I was totally surprised when he got the one, two 620 00:53:36.360 --> 00:53:46.599 three. Well, my things with that were there was so much backstage politics 621 00:53:46.599 --> 00:53:50.920 at that time and all that kind of goofy stuff going on that if you 622 00:53:51.000 --> 00:53:54.920 read the dirt sheets and everything else, that it didn't really matter as much, 623 00:53:55.280 --> 00:54:00.079 whereas like, it was really cool. It was really I'm not gonna 624 00:54:00.119 --> 00:54:05.119 lie, it was really really cool. Side. You got the way Rocky 625 00:54:05.199 --> 00:54:09.280 was looking at it. He's a young kid seeing this and just taken back 626 00:54:09.320 --> 00:54:14.440 by Now, that is something that is cool. The backstage and all that 627 00:54:14.440 --> 00:54:16.880 that was going on at the time, I totally agree with, But I 628 00:54:17.039 --> 00:54:21.559 didn't. You see it kind of in history that if your birthday or you're 629 00:54:21.599 --> 00:54:25.079 in your home city, you're going to lose that match that night. It's 630 00:54:25.159 --> 00:54:30.360 like the Wicks it to you. Yes, it's it's like a weird taboo 631 00:54:30.440 --> 00:54:36.159 thing that they do that like if it's your your home city, usually if 632 00:54:36.159 --> 00:54:37.639 it's like a raw or a SmackDown or something like that, but if you 633 00:54:38.920 --> 00:54:43.639 yeah, you lose. There's a couple of exceptions, like a cempung get 634 00:54:43.679 --> 00:54:46.480 the money in bank in Chicago. Yeah, but it's also the same idea 635 00:54:46.639 --> 00:54:52.480 that whoever sets up the table is the one that's going through it. Yeah, 636 00:54:52.599 --> 00:54:58.519 good way of putty. That's really good. Like my son just noticed 637 00:54:58.559 --> 00:55:01.519 that with the the submatch between Edge and Fin. He's like, why did 638 00:55:01.639 --> 00:55:05.119 Ed set up the table and then he goes through it. I'm like, 639 00:55:05.199 --> 00:55:09.039 that's just the way it happens to home, Like, yeah, yeah, 640 00:55:09.159 --> 00:55:12.679 that was He's about to be nine, but you know, I got him 641 00:55:12.719 --> 00:55:15.360 thinking that he's going to go to book a cheese wrestling school when he's a 642 00:55:15.400 --> 00:55:20.800 teenager. So but anyways, um so a couple of other one offs. 643 00:55:21.039 --> 00:55:24.760 We had a Capital Carnage stopping ground the Greatest War Rubble, which was not 644 00:55:24.880 --> 00:55:29.840 great at all. And then this is a one that I didn't know what 645 00:55:29.920 --> 00:55:32.320 actually happened, and I'm glad that it happened in my home state. And 646 00:55:32.360 --> 00:55:37.280 I know, Mike, you can talk about this is this Tuesday in Texas 647 00:55:37.400 --> 00:55:40.920 and ninety one where Hogan versus the Taker for the title would happened here. 648 00:55:43.360 --> 00:55:46.599 Yeah, you know, that was a strange one, apparently, I mean, 649 00:55:46.840 --> 00:55:52.039 being a Russell Fin back then w CW wasn't necessarily on the ropes, 650 00:55:52.119 --> 00:55:55.599 but it was just like kind of floating out in the middle of nowhere. 651 00:55:55.960 --> 00:56:04.480 And so I watching WWE and Mark Mark Calloway comes in as Undertaker and everything 652 00:56:04.480 --> 00:56:07.119 else, and we've got title changes. So they say that there's gonna be 653 00:56:07.119 --> 00:56:10.599 this special Tuesday pay per view and I'm like, I thought, who that 654 00:56:12.639 --> 00:56:17.559 is going to watch it on a Tuesday, And of course me, Doug, 655 00:56:19.360 --> 00:56:24.559 Yeah, exactly the wrestling plan. So I went and I watched it 656 00:56:24.880 --> 00:56:30.440 at a friend's house, Mark Jones. It was his name, still his 657 00:56:30.519 --> 00:56:34.239 name because he's not dead or anything. But the fact is I was like 658 00:56:34.519 --> 00:56:37.599 this really was like, why did I do this on a Tuesday? And 659 00:56:37.679 --> 00:56:43.440 the thought process was, it's the same reason that we have wrestling on Monday. 660 00:56:43.840 --> 00:56:47.840 There's nothing else to do besides football season on Mondays. So you watch 661 00:56:47.880 --> 00:56:52.039 wrestling on Monday, you have all week to talk about it until next Monday. 662 00:56:52.079 --> 00:56:55.280 And then if you have a pay per view on Sunday, do you 663 00:56:55.360 --> 00:56:59.440 talk about it more on Monday and you can't wait to watch what happens on 664 00:56:59.519 --> 00:57:04.760 Monday. When I screwed up is putting wrestling on Friday, because if You're 665 00:57:04.920 --> 00:57:10.119 demographic is nails. Do you think they really want to hang in to watch 666 00:57:10.159 --> 00:57:15.280 wrestling on Friday? That's why I worked better on Thursdays. But brass Saxton 667 00:57:15.320 --> 00:57:21.920 baseball, That's like I always say this Tuesday in Texas. I remember watching 668 00:57:21.920 --> 00:57:23.519 it and the whole thing kind of fell flat. But it was it was 669 00:57:23.559 --> 00:57:28.320 their experiment, and the by rate was so low it was unreal, and 670 00:57:28.400 --> 00:57:31.280 the results were garbage, and people were actually booing it out of the building. 671 00:57:31.320 --> 00:57:37.239 But I watched it live because I'm a wrestling fan. Well, another 672 00:57:37.280 --> 00:57:39.920 thing I'm assuming it was an experiment because we haven't seen another one since, 673 00:57:40.360 --> 00:57:45.159 was the All Women's Head Review Evolution, which happened in twenty sixteen, I 674 00:57:45.199 --> 00:57:50.760 believe, Yeah, so yeah. So Then one other thing I came across 675 00:57:50.840 --> 00:57:52.760 that was interesting to me that I'm sure either one of you could speak on 676 00:57:52.960 --> 00:57:58.440 was it was called the Wrestling Summit, the only time New Japan, All 677 00:57:58.519 --> 00:58:02.880 Japan, and WWA did a three promotion show together. This was headlined by 678 00:58:04.000 --> 00:58:09.440 Bret Hart versus Hygermask and Whole Cogan versus Stan Hansen. Either you too speak 679 00:58:09.440 --> 00:58:16.840 to that never promoted in America? Yeah, yeah, the Hogan uh Stan 680 00:58:16.920 --> 00:58:22.320 Hansen actually have seen that match, and be thankful that most of you haven't, 681 00:58:22.320 --> 00:58:28.280 because Hogan definitely looks like Hogan U in that match. But yeah, 682 00:58:28.320 --> 00:58:30.679 that's that. I believe that was the only time that's ever happened. And 683 00:58:31.199 --> 00:58:36.800 you're getting back to the women's pay per view. Um, if that pay 684 00:58:36.800 --> 00:58:39.639 per view would have done better, I believe in the you know, as 685 00:58:39.639 --> 00:58:45.239 far as box office, you would have probably seen uh whatever she calls herself 686 00:58:45.239 --> 00:58:50.880 now, Mercedes still in the WWE because that drawing power. But I think 687 00:58:50.880 --> 00:58:55.119 that they just went back to the regular staples of Charlotte Oscar in your basics 688 00:58:55.679 --> 00:59:00.480 after that. Well, a lot of it also had to do with promoting, 689 00:59:01.000 --> 00:59:09.079 um, what was that terrible No holds Barred Dunkeys? And then who 690 00:59:09.480 --> 00:59:15.840 Stan Hanson was in that movie? People forget it? So that's that. 691 00:59:15.840 --> 00:59:21.159 That was a big part of it. But god it was. It wasn't 692 00:59:21.159 --> 00:59:25.280 a bad show. It's just the fact that w WF at the time doesn't 693 00:59:25.280 --> 00:59:29.480 want to be shown up and they don't want to be outclassed, and they 694 00:59:29.679 --> 00:59:34.559 really are in the talent when you're not showing a WWF guy versus a New 695 00:59:34.639 --> 00:59:37.480 Japan guy. And you had Savage who could work against somebody, and you 696 00:59:37.559 --> 00:59:40.880 had Steamboat maybe in the time back. I can't remember everybody on the pay 697 00:59:40.880 --> 00:59:46.239 per view, but you had certain people who could work against the Japanese style 698 00:59:46.280 --> 00:59:53.559 of fast paced impact whatever became the attitude era of ussling, Whereas then you 699 00:59:53.599 --> 01:00:00.480 have Hogan now now now now, Michael, I will have to interject this 700 01:00:00.679 --> 01:00:07.440 one aspect on Hogan's behalf. If anybody has ever seen Hogan work when he 701 01:00:07.519 --> 01:00:14.400 was in Japan, he was a different type of wrestler when he worked just 702 01:00:14.559 --> 01:00:17.559 Japan, before the w unit, before the Big Day, It's a different 703 01:00:17.639 --> 01:00:21.719 whole Kogan. You just have to go back and check it out for yourself. 704 01:00:22.440 --> 01:00:28.880 We we we covered it with mudas the only evidence that I've seen it 705 01:00:28.960 --> 01:00:31.079 was a Muda match that I've seen him work like that, and I was 706 01:00:31.320 --> 01:00:36.559 blown away that anything he could do, anything besides the body slam, clothesline, 707 01:00:36.559 --> 01:00:39.159 and the leg drop. Anyways, So yeah, well, when you're 708 01:00:39.199 --> 01:00:43.119 making that much money just to do those three, I guess he just decided 709 01:00:43.159 --> 01:00:47.320 that's all you're gonna get. Yeah, um, all right, So moving 710 01:00:47.360 --> 01:00:51.679 on with to B level pay per views. You know, speaking of B 711 01:00:51.840 --> 01:00:58.320 level pay per views, the ICY Title is considered the quote unquote B level 712 01:00:58.400 --> 01:01:01.719 or secondary title, even though it's usually postled upon the ord coast of the 713 01:01:01.760 --> 01:01:08.039 company. This reminds me of when the IC title was actually considered a more 714 01:01:08.320 --> 01:01:15.280 high profile title than the WW title match. It's in itself now, this 715 01:01:15.400 --> 01:01:20.800 took place at summer time ninety two. Bread versus Bridge Bulldog was the only 716 01:01:20.880 --> 01:01:25.719 time that I've been able to uncover that the Innercardinal Title was the main event 717 01:01:27.760 --> 01:01:32.199 over a WW title match. This one was a classic. It blows. 718 01:01:32.199 --> 01:01:37.519 It really blows the mind to think that the Innercardinal Title was so respected and 719 01:01:37.639 --> 01:01:43.039 so prestigious at this time that it was the main event of in that show 720 01:01:43.400 --> 01:01:49.320 over the title match featuring ultimate ware watching that can either view. Guys, 721 01:01:49.719 --> 01:01:53.880 remember a time where the Icy title was the main event over THEW title match. 722 01:01:54.800 --> 01:02:00.760 Oh, it's gotta be with Pat Patterson. I can't think off the 723 01:02:00.760 --> 01:02:02.719 top of my head of that. But I want to say there may have 724 01:02:02.760 --> 01:02:07.280 been a couple of times with Pat Patterson, but I don't want Yeah, 725 01:02:07.320 --> 01:02:09.320 but that's how far you got to go back, though, right, And 726 01:02:09.360 --> 01:02:12.880 I didn't go that far back in their research, I stop, you know. 727 01:02:13.039 --> 01:02:17.440 But and then Honestly, I'm gonna say WrestleMania three, everybody talks about 728 01:02:17.480 --> 01:02:22.480 Hogan slamming Andre, but what was the match that saved the whole thing? 729 01:02:23.880 --> 01:02:30.079 Steamboat and Savage for the Intercontinental title. It didn't headline, but it did 730 01:02:30.239 --> 01:02:37.760 theoretically that's the show. Yeah, yeah, I mean there's that. And 731 01:02:37.800 --> 01:02:39.920 then you talk about like yours stuff with King of the Rings. I mean, 732 01:02:40.880 --> 01:02:46.960 is there any title online? No, there's not, and that somehow 733 01:02:47.079 --> 01:02:53.199 jumped over the Intercontinental title, which is not cool in my opinion. And 734 01:02:53.280 --> 01:02:58.840 so that, yeah, you look at your King of the Rings what they 735 01:02:58.880 --> 01:03:00.639 did, and oh the King of the Rings list, the King of the 736 01:03:00.719 --> 01:03:06.960 Ring is that, and you have to minus a few people who wanted that 737 01:03:07.960 --> 01:03:13.960 didn't have to use the British accent act like a goofball and they got pushes 738 01:03:14.119 --> 01:03:17.920 out the frame. Mightus Mabel get rid of Mabel? Right? So speaking 739 01:03:17.960 --> 01:03:24.159 of how bad Mabel was, I want to I want to cite some of 740 01:03:24.199 --> 01:03:29.360 the worst main events on that paper view of all time. Now this is 741 01:03:29.519 --> 01:03:32.119 there's an extensive list, but an extensive list, but in the sake of 742 01:03:32.199 --> 01:03:37.159 time, I's going to cite a few. Um one that means you Michael 743 01:03:37.159 --> 01:03:40.639 had talked about before was the Battleground main event in twenty seventeen, which was 744 01:03:40.760 --> 01:03:49.719 a twenty seven minute Punjabi prison match between Gender Mahall and Randy Orton went on 745 01:03:49.840 --> 01:03:55.079 like twenty six minutes to exactly, and then to the point of King Mabel. 746 01:03:55.440 --> 01:04:00.280 Another terrible main event was the Summerside mighty five main event between him and 747 01:04:00.320 --> 01:04:09.400 Diesel, and Diesel would also have another stinker they was it the year before 748 01:04:09.400 --> 01:04:13.719 I Believe and in Your House four which was titled The Great North, where 749 01:04:13.760 --> 01:04:17.119 he defended the title against the British Bulldog. Now, this match was so 750 01:04:17.199 --> 01:04:23.960 bad that Davey Boy and his manager Jim Cornett went backstage after the match and 751 01:04:24.079 --> 01:04:28.920 personally apologize to Vince for how bad the match was. Yes, I've heard 752 01:04:28.920 --> 01:04:33.039 of this. First of all, Kevin Nash put on a bad match. 753 01:04:33.639 --> 01:04:39.000 You gotta be kidding me. He's only the person that they coined the five 754 01:04:39.079 --> 01:04:41.360 Moves of Doom. And I don't care if he listens to this, and 755 01:04:41.360 --> 01:04:43.920 if he wants to say anything, then he's seven foot tall. He's a 756 01:04:43.960 --> 01:04:46.559 big tough guy. You can't beat up a baseball bat. So no, 757 01:04:46.760 --> 01:04:49.440 I'm not I'm not like that. But when it comes down to it, 758 01:04:49.519 --> 01:04:55.280 like Kevin Nash was just terrible. He was entertaining, but that's what they 759 01:04:55.320 --> 01:04:58.679 wanted time entertaining him big. But God, he was gone off of the 760 01:04:58.760 --> 01:05:04.480 ring and he couldn't He had no chemistry. What the voice? No Greco 761 01:05:04.639 --> 01:05:10.599 Roman was never going to be mentioned in the same sentence with Kevin. I 762 01:05:10.679 --> 01:05:20.199 don't think you. I would love to see what his three point average was 763 01:05:20.239 --> 01:05:24.440 when the draft him from the Hawks, because I bet it wasn't in that 764 01:05:24.519 --> 01:05:29.239 great either when he played for Tennessee. But getting back to it, all 765 01:05:29.960 --> 01:05:34.599 h main events that were stinkers. Well, can either of you remember a 766 01:05:34.719 --> 01:05:41.840 main event where the crowd was starting to walk out because I cited backlash eighteen 767 01:05:41.960 --> 01:05:49.559 Roman versus Samoa Joe that that wasn't their fault. Yeah, for another time 768 01:05:49.599 --> 01:05:56.360 before where either it wasn't there for the guy's fault or the fans were just 769 01:05:56.400 --> 01:06:01.639 into it and they just started to walk out on a main event. You 770 01:06:01.679 --> 01:06:06.760 know, I might have to go back to your boy, Uh, Michael 771 01:06:06.880 --> 01:06:14.159 Adrian Adrian Street. Uh. There were some people at times that were so 772 01:06:15.280 --> 01:06:19.280 his He was so good at what he did that he pissed so many people 773 01:06:19.400 --> 01:06:23.559 off that I can. I don't know if it was a pay per view, 774 01:06:23.599 --> 01:06:28.119 but I know locally that he had He made some people so mad that 775 01:06:28.199 --> 01:06:32.000 they left early, but they still paid their admission fee and got their coke 776 01:06:32.079 --> 01:06:35.599 and got their program. Uh, and they came back next week to see 777 01:06:35.639 --> 01:06:40.880 him get you know, get destroyed, they hoped. But that's about it. 778 01:06:41.199 --> 01:06:45.360 That's the only thing I can't think of. Well, you look at 779 01:06:45.400 --> 01:06:47.840 men events like that though, I mean, we don't know really who if 780 01:06:47.880 --> 01:06:51.400 you can remember who, if Adrian was wrestling, and I love you Adrian, 781 01:06:51.480 --> 01:06:57.880 if you're listening, um, that's that's a really big thing. Whereas 782 01:06:57.920 --> 01:07:03.199 like I look at it, like looking back, a lot of people say 783 01:07:03.199 --> 01:07:10.719 WrestleMania too was terrible and it was shown through three different venues. It was 784 01:07:11.000 --> 01:07:18.400 first I think Starcade did it through a close circuit before WrestleMania did. But 785 01:07:18.480 --> 01:07:26.679 Rustlemania two definitely did three different venues, and they did Hogan versus Bundy and 786 01:07:26.719 --> 01:07:30.800 they said everybody just said it was the DSS. I'll tell you about that 787 01:07:31.440 --> 01:07:35.679 off air, Rocky. But it was not a good thing. And basically, 788 01:07:35.760 --> 01:07:40.039 like everybody hated it and I watched it and I was a kid, 789 01:07:40.039 --> 01:07:44.119 and I was this is when I was becoming like a hard fan. So 790 01:07:44.400 --> 01:07:46.280 I was like, why didn't Bundy beat him up? He's way bigger, 791 01:07:47.199 --> 01:07:58.159 and so I remember that falling flats. Yeah, like I said, Roman 792 01:07:58.320 --> 01:08:00.920 versus Samo Joe wasn't their fault. It was the fact that it was the 793 01:08:01.039 --> 01:08:09.719 Roman bush and everybody hated that. So it's not the draw, it's the 794 01:08:09.800 --> 01:08:15.279 result that you already knew. I would say anything anything from TNA Slash Impact 795 01:08:15.399 --> 01:08:24.479 from twenty o nine to now. I hate to say it like that, 796 01:08:24.520 --> 01:08:27.600 but they're I mean, they try, They've done a lot of stuff. 797 01:08:27.640 --> 01:08:32.920 But yeah, that's that's that's that's fall and flat anytime anything with a celebrity 798 01:08:33.439 --> 01:08:38.399 falls four yea. So let's stop there because we have a celebrity talk coming 799 01:08:38.479 --> 01:08:43.279 up. So on the other side of the coin of worst main events of 800 01:08:43.279 --> 01:08:48.640 all time, I want to talk about really solid matches, classic matches on 801 01:08:48.680 --> 01:08:56.520 a really bad card. Now I've I've cited um. The Ussos had two 802 01:08:56.560 --> 01:09:01.279 battleground matches twenty fourteen and twenty eighteen and fourteen the Ussos versus the Whites, 803 01:09:02.199 --> 01:09:10.520 Redbeard and Harper, and a twenty three fourth match, and then there are 804 01:09:10.520 --> 01:09:14.399 twenty eighteen match versus The New Day for the tag titles, which was one 805 01:09:14.399 --> 01:09:16.760 of the best matches of the year and one of the best future of the 806 01:09:16.840 --> 01:09:25.560 year. Another one would be Triple Aged versus Taker at resumeating twenty seven on 807 01:09:25.760 --> 01:09:30.800 an unremarkable card, and then the Triangle Ladder match at Resume in two thousand 808 01:09:32.600 --> 01:09:36.039 and then you could also throw in Bred versus s Don't Cold the Restume in 809 01:09:36.239 --> 01:09:43.359 thirteen, which was the unofficial birthplace of the Attitude era. So that's the 810 01:09:43.439 --> 01:09:45.920 few that I sighted, and then actually one that you might not like. 811 01:09:46.520 --> 01:09:51.359 If anybody's out there is looking for a decent, very good mismatch, then 812 01:09:51.760 --> 01:09:57.640 check out Black Last twenty eighteen. Now, the reason why it was good 813 01:09:57.760 --> 01:10:00.960 is because Seth Wallin carried him through the match and it was for the ice 814 01:10:00.119 --> 01:10:05.199 title. This was that at the Backlash twenty eighteen. So if you're doing 815 01:10:05.239 --> 01:10:10.920 any homework on miss check that one out. And if you are, please 816 01:10:11.119 --> 01:10:17.319 get some help because you know what I'm about to say, Well, yes, 817 01:10:17.720 --> 01:10:24.000 yeah, definitely doing something that he should do best, which is cutting 818 01:10:24.039 --> 01:10:27.199 promos. He is not a great pro wrestler. I love the fact that 819 01:10:27.239 --> 01:10:30.640 the fall one Crispin one made him change outside the dress room because he wasn't 820 01:10:30.680 --> 01:10:36.199 good enough for it. Scrutiness. Okay, all right, so let's circle 821 01:10:36.239 --> 01:10:41.119 back to the celebrities. Now, celebrities are broad and checking, more eyes 822 01:10:41.159 --> 01:10:45.199 on the product, and mostly you're brought out on pay per views. It 823 01:10:45.279 --> 01:10:47.359 makes sense most eyes are on a pay per view. If you have a 824 01:10:47.399 --> 01:10:50.199 celebrity, you know, debut when are coming out for a match, then 825 01:10:50.239 --> 01:10:53.760 you would assume you give him a pay per view, buy some more views. 826 01:10:54.439 --> 01:10:59.479 Two pioneers of the celebrity variety are City Lauper and Mister T. They 827 01:10:59.560 --> 01:11:03.199 helped the crossover with w W and pop culture. Now, over the years, 828 01:11:03.239 --> 01:11:09.000 we've had you know, many celebrities, um, just to name a 829 01:11:09.000 --> 01:11:13.880 few, um, besides the ones that we've had recently that have been pretty 830 01:11:13.920 --> 01:11:17.000 decent and at least in the ring wise, which between back Buddy and Logan 831 01:11:17.039 --> 01:11:21.239 Paul Um. One of my favorites was the Mayweather match. Was the big 832 01:11:21.239 --> 01:11:27.680 show. Um. I enjoyed that a lot. Um and then also Mike 833 01:11:27.720 --> 01:11:30.880 Tyson the rest of Man in fourteen. What were some of you guys' favorite 834 01:11:30.880 --> 01:11:39.520 celebrity appearances or ones that you hated? M Man, I'm gonna jump straight 835 01:11:39.560 --> 01:11:45.880 in here, Pete Rose getting in tombstoned or vaccine or slam. That was 836 01:11:46.000 --> 01:11:48.840 great. And and I know a lot of people are not gonna know who 837 01:11:48.840 --> 01:11:58.680 this is, but Bob Yuer Bobby was freaking great because oh he was doing 838 01:11:58.680 --> 01:12:01.840 the commercials. Remember he would be sitting they'd move him out of his seat 839 01:12:01.840 --> 01:12:05.640 and he'd go, I must be sitting in the front road And that was 840 01:12:05.680 --> 01:12:11.000 always a skit. Well they'd used that on the advertising commercials leading up to 841 01:12:11.119 --> 01:12:15.560 that, and it was absolutely great. And he did a fantastic job because 842 01:12:15.560 --> 01:12:19.399 when Andre grabbed his throat, it looked like he was coming unseen. So 843 01:12:19.640 --> 01:12:25.600 that's just a couple of mine. I'm gonna go at the best of all 844 01:12:25.600 --> 01:12:29.199 time, the guy to just run into the whole fame Andy Coulston. Ah, 845 01:12:30.079 --> 01:12:33.640 wow, that's the whole. That was. It was the greatest angle 846 01:12:33.680 --> 01:12:36.880 of all time. When you look at it, it lasted thirty plus years 847 01:12:36.880 --> 01:12:42.479 and it was never on pay per view or pl e. How could you 848 01:12:42.520 --> 01:12:45.279 have something that beautiful? But what they did was something more important. Is 849 01:12:45.319 --> 01:12:48.439 that you look at the fact that you don't have pay per view or p 850 01:12:49.399 --> 01:12:58.920 by rates that Dave Letterman had in nineteen eighty was it two or three? 851 01:12:59.399 --> 01:13:03.279 Yeah, with Kaufman on the show and Jerry Lawler coming out and slapping a 852 01:13:03.319 --> 01:13:09.760 living snot out of him, and so that was that that that's that's my 853 01:13:09.800 --> 01:13:15.479 best celebrity involvement ever, because you're not supposed to go over and and it's 854 01:13:15.640 --> 01:13:19.039 it's like some of the historians say, are you gonna be here tomorrow? 855 01:13:20.880 --> 01:13:25.439 Probably not? So why why are you destroying the talent now? Unless you're 856 01:13:25.439 --> 01:13:30.640 the minutes to go ahead and destroy him? I would also say, um, 857 01:13:30.840 --> 01:13:34.840 you know, I look, I never cared for celebrity involvement. I 858 01:13:34.920 --> 01:13:39.479 looked back at some of the celebrities, like when they did U involvement, 859 01:13:39.640 --> 01:13:43.640 like guest hosts and they had the muppets on. The muppets would talk to 860 01:13:43.680 --> 01:13:46.960 like Shamus and like, you guys, wonder why I hate Shamus. He 861 01:13:47.079 --> 01:13:50.920 talked to a muppet like it was a real human being, So yes, 862 01:13:51.520 --> 01:13:56.720 he sucks um. And then I also look at well, they had Jared 863 01:13:56.800 --> 01:14:02.680 Vogel on how's he doing? By the way, Oh, I haven't heard 864 01:14:02.720 --> 01:14:08.159 that. I haven't heard that so long. I was gonna respond, I 865 01:14:08.279 --> 01:14:13.840 was, I'm choking. Excuse me, I mean I just speak it the 866 01:14:13.840 --> 01:14:15.239 way I see it, in the way I see it is the way like 867 01:14:15.399 --> 01:14:19.800 my wrestling historian mind is. And just the fact that, yeah, they 868 01:14:19.880 --> 01:14:25.319 had a guy that turned out to be a pedal on the show. Ne 869 01:14:25.399 --> 01:14:32.079 did I say more? No? More so. I enjoyed the storyline, 870 01:14:32.319 --> 01:14:38.399 the comedy store line between Sammy Zane and Johnny Knoxville. I was a fan 871 01:14:38.720 --> 01:14:42.279 of the match, but I really didn't think Knoxville was going to go over. 872 01:14:42.399 --> 01:14:45.640 There was no point to it. But for Sammy to be able to 873 01:14:45.680 --> 01:14:48.840 bounce back to where he is now, you know, a year, one 874 01:14:48.960 --> 01:14:54.439 year and a half later, um really speaks to the volumes of how good 875 01:14:54.439 --> 01:14:59.840 he is just all around. Um. Can either of you think of an 876 01:15:00.079 --> 01:15:04.239 the wrestler that took a loss but to a celebrity or with an embarrassed by 877 01:15:04.239 --> 01:15:12.079 celebrity and was seen in the light that sent me is seen now Piper? 878 01:15:14.880 --> 01:15:17.840 Yeah, okay, that's gonna be about the only one though, that I 879 01:15:17.880 --> 01:15:23.920 can think of every time it's an embarrassment. But Piper was Piper. You 880 01:15:23.920 --> 01:15:30.239 couldn't stop him. He was like punk, He's like he was the most 881 01:15:30.319 --> 01:15:34.119 unstoppable machine. Piper was Piper Man. You didn't. You did not mess 882 01:15:34.159 --> 01:15:39.000 with Piper. He could take a whist to anybody and just pay it back 883 01:15:39.039 --> 01:15:43.479 the next week. It was so amazing what Piper could do. So whenever 884 01:15:43.560 --> 01:15:46.239 he did on pay per view or peel least, it didn't matter because he 885 01:15:46.319 --> 01:15:53.399 was going to be just promoting and destroying the product the next week. I 886 01:15:53.520 --> 01:16:01.039 like that, all right. So this next little subtopic is can be everybody 887 01:16:01.039 --> 01:16:06.800 has their vias opinion. It's debatable in a lot of different ways, but 888 01:16:08.119 --> 01:16:14.119 the top of this one is best Resumania match. Now, I'm very biased 889 01:16:14.119 --> 01:16:17.239 to the subject because I was an attendance for my two top picks, which 890 01:16:17.319 --> 01:16:24.720 was Wresumanian seventeen Austin versus Rock Again. I give credit to Anthony DeMarco. 891 01:16:24.800 --> 01:16:28.479 He did a retro episode on this a while back, specifically on this WrestleMania 892 01:16:29.199 --> 01:16:31.600 I took. I went back and took a look at the matches, and 893 01:16:32.600 --> 01:16:36.600 every match on this card had at least one Hall of Famer in it, 894 01:16:38.399 --> 01:16:42.880 not to mention the triple third TLC match, which had six Hall of Famers 895 01:16:42.880 --> 01:16:46.319 in it. It broke the attendance record with sixty seven thousand fans in the 896 01:16:46.359 --> 01:16:53.720 Astrodome. I was opposite the hard Can that was my view of the stadium. 897 01:16:54.720 --> 01:16:58.680 And then my second one of this Restumania twenty five of HPK versus Undertaker 898 01:16:59.279 --> 01:17:03.800 that was also another attendance breaker was seventy two thousand plus in Reliance Stadium. 899 01:17:03.960 --> 01:17:09.119 I was actually stage left for this event, so I could see behind the 900 01:17:09.239 --> 01:17:15.079 stage area and was able to see the wrestlers walking into guerrilla position. This 901 01:17:15.119 --> 01:17:19.079 one, well, another one for me real quick that was larger than life 902 01:17:19.119 --> 01:17:25.600 for me as a kid was the Hogan versus Warrior match with both the titles 903 01:17:25.600 --> 01:17:30.000 on the line. And then a little cool fact. I know you know 904 01:17:30.000 --> 01:17:32.880 the answer to this, Michael, for that wrestlemaning a sixth match between Hogan 905 01:17:32.960 --> 01:17:42.600 Warrior who was in an attendance that would be a future w restuator Mark, 906 01:17:42.680 --> 01:17:46.399 you have any idea man, no on the future like that? No, 907 01:17:46.960 --> 01:17:50.479 please tell me. It's two best friends. It was at one. It 908 01:17:50.560 --> 01:17:57.239 was two people. It was Edging Christian right. Also Landstorm was there and 909 01:17:57.479 --> 01:18:05.079 Renee yup. A lot of people who are really really touched by WrestleMania. 910 01:18:05.279 --> 01:18:10.760 I don't know if that touches me as much as old NWA events, but 911 01:18:10.880 --> 01:18:16.520 I can tell you like the crowning moment for me in WrestleMania was Eddie hugging 912 01:18:16.600 --> 01:18:24.880 falling one at a Madison Square garden. There was no better moment. That 913 01:18:24.960 --> 01:18:31.000 was the perfect WrestleMania. Everybody knows it. Everybody knows it was and for 914 01:18:31.520 --> 01:18:38.039 emotion was down point. Yes, I understand where you're coming from. In 915 01:18:38.239 --> 01:18:42.560 ring in ring, it was the best matches that. It was everything that 916 01:18:42.600 --> 01:18:47.640 you wanted. It's just we have to look at everything else that happened with 917 01:18:47.680 --> 01:18:51.279 it, and we can't talk about that. But we are wrestle Magic. 918 01:18:51.279 --> 01:18:57.039 We can talk about anything. Um that's gonna be a different topic for a 919 01:18:57.039 --> 01:19:02.279 different day, but that was that to me was Yeah, how about you 920 01:19:02.319 --> 01:19:08.840 mark best their favorite WrestleMania match. Man, You'll have to put me with 921 01:19:08.880 --> 01:19:14.720 anything with Eddie Guerrero or anything with HBK, because it seems like HBK showed 922 01:19:14.800 --> 01:19:18.760 up at those events. What you say, what you want to about him, 923 01:19:19.079 --> 01:19:24.920 the guy put on WrestleMania moments, h And that's for sure, it's 924 01:19:24.960 --> 01:19:28.119 my favorite of all time. Yeah. So, and man, I get 925 01:19:28.159 --> 01:19:31.479 a lot of flat to that. A lot of people apparently are Sean Hayters 926 01:19:31.560 --> 01:19:34.279 now, but you got to consider man, any guy that could come out 927 01:19:34.319 --> 01:19:39.840 and call himself a boy toy and pull it off. You were a bad 928 01:19:39.920 --> 01:19:45.000 boy. You were a bad man. Oh okay, okay. So you 929 01:19:45.000 --> 01:19:49.159 know, I look back at some of those events, I mean, Taker 930 01:19:49.199 --> 01:19:53.720 and Kane. This is something that people sweep on the rug. But it 931 01:19:53.760 --> 01:19:58.159 was a two year few and they put on great matches and they had a 932 01:19:58.199 --> 01:20:01.520 few that spanned well over year. Everybody knows I'm a really big Glenn Jacob's 933 01:20:01.600 --> 01:20:06.880 fan. And to find the perfect foil and then just to make it revisit 934 01:20:08.000 --> 01:20:12.960 the whole year to do it again, that's pretty awesome. And I don't 935 01:20:12.960 --> 01:20:17.399 really know, We've had a couple of you know, WrestleMania matches revisited, 936 01:20:17.439 --> 01:20:21.479 but for him to go from one to another, that's that's pretty awesome, 937 01:20:21.680 --> 01:20:25.399 you know. So I always like that, and I love the fact that 938 01:20:25.720 --> 01:20:30.600 we actually watched like two big men put on what a lot of like the 939 01:20:30.720 --> 01:20:35.560 new modern crowd would say is athletic wrestling. I think that's really cool. 940 01:20:35.640 --> 01:20:40.439 So that that definitely sticks out in my mind, that that that is I 941 01:20:40.520 --> 01:20:43.239 forgot all about that. That's a great point. And Michael, I think 942 01:20:43.239 --> 01:20:46.119 we got to have to start calling a mayor king. Well, yeah, 943 01:20:46.359 --> 01:20:50.159 we'll call him mayor, We'll call him mayor, but you look closer to 944 01:20:50.239 --> 01:20:57.760 him. So I got two honorable mentions with just Manya Tan's match between brother 945 01:20:57.880 --> 01:21:00.520 versus Brother, Bret versus all In. Uh, this is one of the 946 01:21:00.560 --> 01:21:05.199 matches I saw that summer, um and I was has gone away with the 947 01:21:05.239 --> 01:21:09.359 fact that it was brother versus brother and then the wrestling clinic that these guys 948 01:21:09.439 --> 01:21:15.600 put on. Um. Another one was the hbk Razor Icee ladder match Resume 949 01:21:15.640 --> 01:21:19.479 at ten. Now, this was a first ladder match in the company's history 950 01:21:19.760 --> 01:21:25.199 and a little fun of fact, also was the first five star about rating 951 01:21:25.319 --> 01:21:30.560 that Dave Meltzer ever gave out. No, did not know that. Yeah, 952 01:21:31.159 --> 01:21:36.720 uncle uncle Dave gives out a lot of ratings. So I mean it's 953 01:21:36.760 --> 01:21:42.199 it's past Davy nine, which he already gave six stars to h to Steam 954 01:21:42.239 --> 01:21:47.359 Bolton Flare, but it's it's he is what he is. Um. No, 955 01:21:47.520 --> 01:21:50.760 that's a great match. That's a phenomenal match. And like we look 956 01:21:50.800 --> 01:21:56.319 at like overlook some of the stuff with with perfect and and and Brett. 957 01:21:57.439 --> 01:22:02.359 That was great and and people don't realize like Henny was hurt a lot when 958 01:22:02.359 --> 01:22:06.079 he was wrestling those matches. And I actually did a live chat back in 959 01:22:06.159 --> 01:22:12.600 the nineties with Larry the Acs which was really cool, and yeah, I 960 01:22:12.720 --> 01:22:16.920 marked out really bad and I asked him, I was like, who do 961 01:22:16.960 --> 01:22:19.720 you wrestle most like? And He's like, my son, you know. 962 01:22:20.199 --> 01:22:25.119 And I looked back at when I saw him in the old a Wa territories 963 01:22:25.119 --> 01:22:28.399 in Minnesota, how much more crisp he was, and when he came in 964 01:22:28.479 --> 01:22:30.840 he had the perfect look. I knew who he was, so I already 965 01:22:30.920 --> 01:22:38.800 knew his pedigree, but I don't think that WWE f fans ever got to 966 01:22:38.840 --> 01:22:42.960 see really what he was capable of. The man was hurt all the time. 967 01:22:43.920 --> 01:22:46.159 So I mean he was a true professional. He was a really true 968 01:22:46.159 --> 01:22:55.239 professional. So getting back to it, you know, maybe another match mightel 969 01:22:55.479 --> 01:23:00.319 I mean always, I still always go to back the Savage Steamboat because I 970 01:23:00.359 --> 01:23:06.199 love the psychology between it. DBS put on a lot of matches that were 971 01:23:06.199 --> 01:23:11.439 really great. They were just always against not that great opponents. Is that 972 01:23:11.479 --> 01:23:21.039 a fair assessment? Yeah, But oh he was man. Everything he did 973 01:23:21.079 --> 01:23:27.399 in Mid South was just so great. I wish more people would see that. 974 01:23:27.439 --> 01:23:31.279 But anyway, I'm getting rabbit hole. Yeah, so speaking of the 975 01:23:31.319 --> 01:23:35.039 B level again, UM, I know I said earlier, I don't like 976 01:23:35.840 --> 01:23:40.960 how we say B level payer review. Also, I don't like the term 977 01:23:41.000 --> 01:23:46.920 between when talking about rosmcdown B show. Um when considering rossmcdown. To me 978 01:23:47.119 --> 01:23:51.039 again, if you make it to WW, then you've made it to the 979 01:23:51.039 --> 01:23:57.039 A level. And in this industry, I feel that people look at NXT 980 01:23:57.199 --> 01:24:01.199 brand as the B level. Then when the talent from NXC gets called up 981 01:24:01.239 --> 01:24:05.239 to the main roster, it's not seen it's seen as a big deal. 982 01:24:05.239 --> 01:24:09.840 But to me, it should be seen more of a bigger deal. Uh, 983 01:24:10.079 --> 01:24:14.319 it just seems like not enough people make it a big deal. Um. 984 01:24:15.359 --> 01:24:17.880 Would let me ask you this question real quick. Would you rather be 985 01:24:17.920 --> 01:24:24.199 on that main roster but not featured on TV every week? You rather be 986 01:24:24.239 --> 01:24:30.319 an annext showcase in your craft every Tuesday? Oh, I'm definitely wanted to 987 01:24:30.680 --> 01:24:33.039 get my my my image out. You want to get yourself out. That's 988 01:24:33.039 --> 01:24:38.399 only why you make money. And and I agree with you. When you 989 01:24:38.399 --> 01:24:41.319 make it to the w W, it's almost like you're you made it to 990 01:24:41.359 --> 01:24:44.920 the major league. You're either in the American League or the National League. 991 01:24:45.479 --> 01:24:48.600 Yeah, you're still in the major leagues exactly. So, like I said, 992 01:24:48.640 --> 01:24:51.960 I used to think of NXC as the B level, but then I 993 01:24:53.000 --> 01:24:57.439 start thinking about it. It's just it's just the NXC brand. If you 994 01:24:57.600 --> 01:25:00.399 it's because it's under the w w M. Fella, if you made his 995 01:25:00.600 --> 01:25:03.640 WWE, you've made it to the big time. You just on a different 996 01:25:03.640 --> 01:25:09.880 tier. So not necessarily B level or Triple A or like you said, 997 01:25:09.880 --> 01:25:14.800 that's a good reference between the American League and a National league. You know, 998 01:25:15.039 --> 01:25:17.479 you're just on a on a different tier. That's all. Well, 999 01:25:17.479 --> 01:25:21.319 this is very interesting that you bring this up, because honestly, about five 1000 01:25:21.399 --> 01:25:26.399 years ago, six years ago, the NXT was the closest thing the old 1001 01:25:26.439 --> 01:25:31.199 school in wa Mark am I right. Absolutely, they got the hottest talent. 1002 01:25:31.239 --> 01:25:39.279 And what Triple H did is that he bought everybody who was feuding against 1003 01:25:39.319 --> 01:25:43.159 each other, who had a rivalry. That was beautiful. Sammy Zane, 1004 01:25:43.239 --> 01:25:50.079 Kevin Owens, Johnny Gargano and what's his name that I get a picture with 1005 01:25:50.159 --> 01:25:56.119 the ball guy Toamaso Champo, Yes, yeah, exactly. I couldn't give 1006 01:25:56.199 --> 01:26:00.880 his name. And he was just getting rivals. And that's the same thing 1007 01:26:00.880 --> 01:26:05.760 that Vince did with the national expansion. No one saw it because people aren't 1008 01:26:05.760 --> 01:26:13.720 watching the indies and people weren't paying attention. So you had instant classics that 1009 01:26:13.760 --> 01:26:19.359 were already built in rings before they ever touched theirs. So all you have 1010 01:26:19.399 --> 01:26:25.399 to do is put it on a pay per view or premium live event and 1011 01:26:25.560 --> 01:26:29.920 put your production on it and make it that much better. Absolutely, it 1012 01:26:30.000 --> 01:26:33.920 was beautiful and what Vince is doing, Vince's idea of it, like the 1013 01:26:34.119 --> 01:26:40.880 bron Breaker, Carmelo Hayes and I mean all the UK guys are great. 1014 01:26:40.960 --> 01:26:43.960 I love the UK guys. Aside from that, you don't have anything coming 1015 01:26:43.960 --> 01:26:47.279 out. Everybody that he's trying to sign who are like collegiate athletes are not 1016 01:26:48.079 --> 01:26:50.680 going to turn out. I got I got news for you. They're never 1017 01:26:51.000 --> 01:26:57.479 going to turn out. And they were talking about you'll love this. The 1018 01:26:57.520 --> 01:27:00.600 fact that oh we're announcing another draft. I wonder I have a Gable Stevenson 1019 01:27:01.119 --> 01:27:04.119 being part of a draft. Have we seen him? It's been like two 1020 01:27:04.399 --> 01:27:12.079 three years, yeah, yeah years. So I don't want to see more 1021 01:27:12.680 --> 01:27:19.399 people through Vince's system as adverse through William Regal and Triple H system when they 1022 01:27:19.399 --> 01:27:23.880 were getting established stars with people who already had a following. That's why it 1023 01:27:24.000 --> 01:27:30.399 got hot, and that's why it got a TV deal. So and it's 1024 01:27:30.520 --> 01:27:35.960 it's the TV deal was on the WW network, which was pay per view. 1025 01:27:38.319 --> 01:27:40.840 That's right now. We're gonna get into that here in a second. 1026 01:27:41.039 --> 01:27:43.960 Um, I want to cover I want to go back real quick to NXT. 1027 01:27:44.479 --> 01:27:47.319 Now what I what I like with the new NXT so to speak, 1028 01:27:47.439 --> 01:27:53.319 is that they are recursurrecting some of these legacy pay per views. They've resurrected 1029 01:27:53.399 --> 01:27:57.760 the vegetate pay per view, the in your House monitor, they use that 1030 01:27:57.840 --> 01:28:00.399 as a pay per view title. Now, the Great American Badge like we 1031 01:28:00.439 --> 01:28:05.279 spoke about a while ago, and they've been resurrected in old WCW pay per 1032 01:28:05.319 --> 01:28:12.640 view in Halloween Havoc. With all these pay per views being resurrected, with 1033 01:28:12.720 --> 01:28:15.520 all the paid legacy pay per views that we've had over the years, and 1034 01:28:15.680 --> 01:28:21.079 pay per review changing with the digital age, I want to talk about a 1035 01:28:21.119 --> 01:28:28.920 little bit about some some of the events that broke or set records, pay 1036 01:28:28.920 --> 01:28:35.079 per view buys and things like that. So, before WW launched its subscription 1037 01:28:35.159 --> 01:28:41.680 channel, the success if any pay per view was monitored by itself. The 1038 01:28:41.760 --> 01:28:46.000 individual pay per view sales was determined by the success of each pay per view, 1039 01:28:46.000 --> 01:28:50.479 I mean each ww event. Pay per reviews were one of the biggest 1040 01:28:50.479 --> 01:28:58.960 revenues revenue generators for WWE, and buy rates were one of the biggest indicators 1041 01:28:58.960 --> 01:29:02.560 of the company's success. So let's look at some of the most selling rescue 1042 01:29:02.560 --> 01:29:09.840 pay per views of all time, and oddly enough, the top ten or 1043 01:29:09.840 --> 01:29:16.840 all WrestleMania buys. WrestleMania twenty eight had a one point two million Restumeentia twenty 1044 01:29:16.840 --> 01:29:21.159 three had one point two and then he had most of those WrestleManias in the 1045 01:29:21.159 --> 01:29:27.920 twenties had been a million, just over a million, rounding out the top 1046 01:29:27.960 --> 01:29:32.359 ten. WrestleMania twenty two in the ninth spot only had nine hundred and seventy 1047 01:29:32.439 --> 01:29:36.359 thousand pay per view buys, and restle Mania twenty five, which I was 1048 01:29:36.399 --> 01:29:43.119 at again, had nine hundred and sixty So I want to give everyone an 1049 01:29:43.159 --> 01:29:48.439 idea of how WrestleMania pay per view buys stack up against other sports. Now, 1050 01:29:48.520 --> 01:29:55.000 other events that surpassed one million pay per view buys eight months after the 1051 01:29:55.119 --> 01:29:59.079 upset of Mike Tyson Buster Douglas versus the abandoned. Holy Field had more than 1052 01:29:59.159 --> 01:30:02.800 a million pay per view buys. The Bernard Hopkins versus Oscar de la Hoyo 1053 01:30:02.880 --> 01:30:09.720 match, Um they brought lesser. UFC versus Randy coltur match had a million 1054 01:30:09.760 --> 01:30:15.319 buys. Um even Amanda Units versus Round the Rows they had a million pay 1055 01:30:15.359 --> 01:30:21.479 per view buys and Logan Paul versus came Inside back in twenty eighteen also drew 1056 01:30:21.600 --> 01:30:27.199 one hundred I mean a million of pay per view buys. So wabs up 1057 01:30:27.199 --> 01:30:30.840 there at the level with Boxing and UFC for most pay per view buys of 1058 01:30:30.159 --> 01:30:39.119 all time. And that speaks volumes to the company the promoted the matches, 1059 01:30:39.439 --> 01:30:44.600 just the talent and how global, like how much of a universe this company 1060 01:30:44.640 --> 01:30:54.479 really is? Um, what do you guys think about that? It's it's 1061 01:30:54.520 --> 01:31:00.039 all about the buy rates because that money that it comes from them and from 1062 01:31:00.119 --> 01:31:05.359 that revenue stream was revolutionary in the eighties and nineties. It's not revolutionary now 1063 01:31:05.439 --> 01:31:09.520 when you can launch your own channel and make all the money. But that's 1064 01:31:09.520 --> 01:31:12.600 why it all comes down to a person I said earlier, evil can evil 1065 01:31:12.960 --> 01:31:15.000 and like I said, we'll get back to him at the end of the 1066 01:31:15.039 --> 01:31:23.680 show. But it brass acts. It's he is. Vince was genius with 1067 01:31:23.760 --> 01:31:30.760 the way he marketed. However, the marketing and the marketing children and everything 1068 01:31:30.760 --> 01:31:33.960 else is what killed every wrestling fan out there after a while. And that's 1069 01:31:34.119 --> 01:31:39.720 that's why we didn't care about Hogan holding the belt and things like that after 1070 01:31:39.840 --> 01:31:44.039 time, because WrestleMania didn't mean anything when every baby face won. There was 1071 01:31:44.079 --> 01:31:47.359 no storylines coming out of it. There was nothing. There was a time 1072 01:31:47.399 --> 01:31:55.680 where it got really complacent, really just boring. And so you know when 1073 01:31:55.760 --> 01:32:01.880 they jettison, well, Hogan jettison himself and and WCW became a competitor and 1074 01:32:01.920 --> 01:32:06.279 actually gone on pay per view and started making some revenue stream out of that, 1075 01:32:09.119 --> 01:32:11.039 you know, there was a little bit of a difference, and then 1076 01:32:11.119 --> 01:32:14.359 that's when you know, you start the Attitude era and everything else. But 1077 01:32:14.840 --> 01:32:16.880 knowing that they could compete with those numbers were great, But look what you 1078 01:32:16.960 --> 01:32:19.960 had the time. Then you look at current product, and you have to 1079 01:32:20.000 --> 01:32:28.239 also look at all those gaps between those years, all those gaps and what 1080 01:32:28.399 --> 01:32:31.640 sold them out. It's kind of crazy, like we live in an age, 1081 01:32:31.640 --> 01:32:35.000 at digital age where people are that they have no attention span, So 1082 01:32:35.039 --> 01:32:38.880 of course logan, Paul is going to get something because they think it's gonna 1083 01:32:39.079 --> 01:32:41.800 last only a couple of minutes. And how much do I really believe it's 1084 01:32:41.880 --> 01:32:45.640 legit? And how much do I believe it's bus fifty fifty? I really 1085 01:32:45.640 --> 01:32:54.079 think it's fifty fifty. But I also live in an age where I wouldn't 1086 01:32:54.079 --> 01:33:00.319 fight him. And we look at our current products, we haven't really had 1087 01:33:00.359 --> 01:33:03.680 great writing or storylines or anything that we want to sink our teeth in two 1088 01:33:03.800 --> 01:33:11.279 besides two or three different storylines between two or three different companies. So that's 1089 01:33:11.279 --> 01:33:13.760 why we're not selling out pay per views the way it used to be. 1090 01:33:14.199 --> 01:33:17.680 But to go against the boxing, Boxing was the king of pay per views, 1091 01:33:17.840 --> 01:33:23.119 and that's I mean. Vince wanted always to touch that. He always 1092 01:33:23.119 --> 01:33:29.479 wanted to put his dirty little fingers on them. So to touch those numbers 1093 01:33:29.560 --> 01:33:32.119 is great, But what else has touched those numbers on pay per view? 1094 01:33:32.439 --> 01:33:36.079 Did you ever look at it like when pay per view was for movies? 1095 01:33:36.439 --> 01:33:41.880 No one ever looks at this. You look at a movie like say Braveheart, 1096 01:33:42.319 --> 01:33:45.439 but it would be on the pay per view channel and you'd have to 1097 01:33:45.439 --> 01:33:48.960 buy it. Do you know how many buys they got I guarantee Wrestlemanian ever 1098 01:33:49.000 --> 01:33:56.319 touched those numbers. Yeah, you're right, one thinks about the real, 1099 01:33:56.720 --> 01:34:01.319 the real statistics out there versus what you're really against. And that was a 1100 01:34:01.359 --> 01:34:04.800 little surprised. I hit you with an ipolgos for that, Rocky, But 1101 01:34:04.880 --> 01:34:10.239 it's all good. You know, any Mark, did you think about things 1102 01:34:10.239 --> 01:34:13.680 like that? Well, yeah, you make a great point on that, 1103 01:34:13.800 --> 01:34:16.800 and uh, and I truly think as far as the WrestleMania's go, you 1104 01:34:16.800 --> 01:34:21.560 know, of course, I was distinctly watching all the first and all the 1105 01:34:21.600 --> 01:34:27.840 way all the way through, so the first say five to seven of them, 1106 01:34:27.920 --> 01:34:30.159 it was a spectacle. It was an event. It was it was 1107 01:34:30.840 --> 01:34:33.640 you just wanted to see who they were going to bring out, what was 1108 01:34:33.680 --> 01:34:39.359 going to happen. Then it got to be, uh, kind of you 1109 01:34:39.760 --> 01:34:43.880 it wasn't quite the event. They brought everybody out. They kind of dumbed 1110 01:34:43.920 --> 01:34:47.439 it down and dulled it up, and like you said, the gaps came 1111 01:34:47.479 --> 01:34:51.880 in there, and I really think they were so new and so cutting edge 1112 01:34:53.439 --> 01:34:56.439 they didn't follow it up for a while. And when they did, that 1113 01:34:56.520 --> 01:35:00.279 was the attitude era, or you know, in that era, and now 1114 01:35:00.319 --> 01:35:01.960 it seems like they're ashamed of it. They love to talk about it, 1115 01:35:02.079 --> 01:35:05.039 But if they went back to something like that, I think there would be 1116 01:35:05.079 --> 01:35:10.840 a lot more interest, just you know my opinion. All right, well, 1117 01:35:11.399 --> 01:35:15.359 let's close out that part. But the pay per views, um so, 1118 01:35:15.520 --> 01:35:18.279 manias, I do want to cite two little facts here. Uh, 1119 01:35:18.640 --> 01:35:24.199 and let's see if either one of you can guess the answer. Highest WW 1120 01:35:24.439 --> 01:35:28.600 pay per view win percentage with at least one hundred pay per view matches. 1121 01:35:29.079 --> 01:35:35.199 Who do you think it is? Hm? Undertaker? Uh yeah or Big 1122 01:35:35.279 --> 01:35:41.159 Big Match Bob John Cina holds the record for the highest pay per view win 1123 01:35:41.199 --> 01:35:45.159 percentage in history as of today, His overall pay per view record sixty one 1124 01:35:45.239 --> 01:35:50.880 three and forty one, with sixty of being wins. All right, second 1125 01:35:50.920 --> 01:36:00.079 one, and then we're moving on most w W paper matches in history. 1126 01:36:00.479 --> 01:36:08.319 UM get to go see that after that? You can't? Yeah? Yeah, 1127 01:36:05.720 --> 01:36:11.399 you Randy order, so you, Mike, you had your you had 1128 01:36:11.439 --> 01:36:15.439 your your answers crossed. Undertaker holds the record for competing in the most pay 1129 01:36:15.479 --> 01:36:21.239 per view matches in debt history with uh of course with the Undefeated Street but 1130 01:36:23.000 --> 01:36:26.880 he has one hundred and sixty pay per view matches in his career, HM, 1131 01:36:27.800 --> 01:36:33.000 workhorse, Yeah, yeah, all right. So uh so moving on 1132 01:36:33.079 --> 01:36:39.680 here. Now, something that ties directly into pay per view buys and how 1133 01:36:39.760 --> 01:36:43.920 we watch the product is the demo, the audience, and the ratings. 1134 01:36:44.199 --> 01:36:47.960 So before the Peacock deal, WWW was in about one point five million homes. 1135 01:36:48.920 --> 01:36:56.960 Now that they've merged with Peacock, WW is considerably in about twenty million 1136 01:36:57.039 --> 01:37:00.880 homes because about twenty million homes half Peacocks. So without being said, you 1137 01:37:00.920 --> 01:37:08.079 know, more eyes can be on a product in that sense to help the 1138 01:37:08.359 --> 01:37:15.079 diffuse, the metrics that we followed throughout the last few decades of wresting television 1139 01:37:15.159 --> 01:37:20.640 history have changed. Reports dwell on TV ratings, which is a number with 1140 01:37:20.800 --> 01:37:28.239 one or two decimal places. Those numbers measure a program's total audience. Keep 1141 01:37:28.279 --> 01:37:32.119 it in mind that the demographic that is most desired is the eighteen to forty 1142 01:37:32.159 --> 01:37:36.600 nine year old bracket. This is the audience that is most desired due to 1143 01:37:36.680 --> 01:37:42.239 the fact that this demo are the working class and have money to spend. 1144 01:37:42.680 --> 01:37:45.840 And it's so important to the networks because this is the age group that most 1145 01:37:45.920 --> 01:37:53.560 ad cells are targeted for. Key demographics, very bad outlet time of day, 1146 01:37:55.479 --> 01:38:00.119 programming type. You know things like that. Now this is such and 1147 01:38:00.159 --> 01:38:02.920 an in debt profit to cover that, we just don't have the time. 1148 01:38:02.960 --> 01:38:05.760 So just let me give you a little scratch the surface with a little bit 1149 01:38:05.760 --> 01:38:12.319 of info, a little bit more. INMPLO TV ratings, what exactly does 1150 01:38:12.319 --> 01:38:16.520 that mean? All TV ratings are basically percentages, but how do we determine 1151 01:38:16.520 --> 01:38:21.880 this? We use a denominator which is what we which is what the rating 1152 01:38:23.079 --> 01:38:29.279 is actually a percentage of. And this also varies, so this means that 1153 01:38:29.319 --> 01:38:34.359 there are different kinds of ratings depending on the desominator being used. We have 1154 01:38:34.680 --> 01:38:40.640 a national rating, which is essentially a percentage of the national population as viewing. 1155 01:38:41.479 --> 01:38:46.760 There's the coverage rating that's the percentage of the population viewing who has access 1156 01:38:46.800 --> 01:38:51.880 to the program's channel, and then a household rating, and that's the percentage 1157 01:38:51.920 --> 01:39:00.520 of household viewing. Do you either one of you know any other way that 1158 01:39:00.640 --> 01:39:05.600 they manage here or how do they determine how many people are actually viewing the 1159 01:39:05.720 --> 01:39:12.479 product? Because we know that they can go off of DVR recordings, you 1160 01:39:12.520 --> 01:39:20.439 know how many people watched the events on delay? I would say maybe starting 1161 01:39:20.439 --> 01:39:26.279 your own YouTube channel for highlights and stuff like that, not giving away full 1162 01:39:26.359 --> 01:39:30.640 matches and seeing how many people look at that. Aside from that, and 1163 01:39:30.720 --> 01:39:36.279 of course you know daily motion, but I don't know you know much more 1164 01:39:38.159 --> 01:39:43.119 then however you would track it. Yeah, so this was something that I 1165 01:39:43.159 --> 01:39:45.760 had to study a few times to try to understand it. There's just a 1166 01:39:45.800 --> 01:39:50.119 lot of key components and how they figure out these factors in I think you 1167 01:39:50.359 --> 01:39:56.159 mentioned YouTube. That's how I went back to watch old Tama matches after I 1168 01:39:56.199 --> 01:40:00.039 found out that Kurt was heading over there. I just had to know, 1169 01:40:00.079 --> 01:40:04.239 how, I said, pare athlete every in general like Kurt, why he 1170 01:40:04.279 --> 01:40:09.199 would jump to any promotion not knowing at the time of his addiction or the 1171 01:40:09.239 --> 01:40:13.520 extended its injuries. But that brings me to something that you had brought up, 1172 01:40:13.960 --> 01:40:17.199 which was that T and A would advertise two hour specials that you could 1173 01:40:17.239 --> 01:40:21.359 watch for eight dollars a week, making it seem like the audience was getting 1174 01:40:21.359 --> 01:40:25.800 any pay per view every week. Tell me where all that was about. 1175 01:40:26.520 --> 01:40:29.359 Well back in the day when T and A first came out. A lot 1176 01:40:29.359 --> 01:40:32.479 of people don't know this, but when Bob Ryder got together with the Jared's, 1177 01:40:32.560 --> 01:40:39.000 Jerry and Jeff govershed your souldierry. They had the idea that we would 1178 01:40:39.079 --> 01:40:44.119 launch an alternative to WWE because everybody was fed up when WCW went under that 1179 01:40:44.159 --> 01:40:46.800 there was nothing else that you could watch, so it was Vince shoved down 1180 01:40:46.840 --> 01:40:50.159 your throat and you did not like it. We really didn't. It was 1181 01:40:50.199 --> 01:40:56.119 just it's my way of the highway. And so for eight dollars a week 1182 01:40:57.520 --> 01:41:01.880 you could get a pay per view one hour to two hour special sometimes of 1183 01:41:02.479 --> 01:41:06.039 TNA Wrestling when they first started, and the idea was, we're going to 1184 01:41:06.079 --> 01:41:09.520 bring wrestling back to what it used to be, which is what we all 1185 01:41:09.560 --> 01:41:13.520 wanted, was the old NWA, and it was sponsored by the NWA. 1186 01:41:13.560 --> 01:41:19.159 It was actually called NWATNA, So we got it, and we didn't get 1187 01:41:19.159 --> 01:41:25.920 it because they hired some goofballs like Russo, and I won't talk about that 1188 01:41:25.960 --> 01:41:31.920 too much, but what I will talk about is Bob Ryder and Jeremy Borash. 1189 01:41:32.199 --> 01:41:38.920 We're really good about responding to emails, and I actually spent some time 1190 01:41:39.159 --> 01:41:43.439 sending emails back and forth to them with ideas for shows, and it's kind 1191 01:41:43.479 --> 01:41:45.039 of funny how they kind of show up on the shows. But I've never 1192 01:41:45.039 --> 01:41:50.880 got any credit for it. It was good, it was great. But 1193 01:41:50.960 --> 01:41:56.000 I've never seen a company that can actually start on pay per view, which 1194 01:41:56.000 --> 01:42:02.359 is the goal is to get on pay per view, versus to have everything 1195 01:42:02.399 --> 01:42:06.039 reversed and have it like in an magnanimous way, in a way I can 1196 01:42:06.560 --> 01:42:15.399 really explain that is the first pay per view that ECW ever did. They 1197 01:42:15.720 --> 01:42:19.000 if everything didn't go off perfect, it would have been just a garbage show, 1198 01:42:19.039 --> 01:42:26.640 because they say that like five minutes after the show filmed that the generator 1199 01:42:26.680 --> 01:42:29.640 blew that was running the whole building because they had no money to had no 1200 01:42:29.720 --> 01:42:33.800 budget, whereas the Jarrets did and they had everything with TNA and so everything 1201 01:42:33.840 --> 01:42:38.560 blacked out. But that made them money, a little bit of money, 1202 01:42:38.560 --> 01:42:42.159 at least enough money to pay the talent half their paychecks or whatever. But 1203 01:42:43.479 --> 01:42:45.840 whereas TNA starts on pay per view, and nobody ever does that, and 1204 01:42:46.079 --> 01:42:50.000 I never thought of a company that could do something like that and start such 1205 01:42:50.039 --> 01:42:59.760 a revolutionary idea. Well, speaking of revolutionary ideas, something that would also 1206 01:43:00.960 --> 01:43:03.640 you know, into our lives is the network. And I remember at the 1207 01:43:03.640 --> 01:43:09.640 time of these announcements, I was just so excited that all my WW programming, 1208 01:43:10.119 --> 01:43:12.920 all past pay per views of documentaries are going to be in one spot 1209 01:43:13.000 --> 01:43:18.760 for me. So since WW launched in February of twenty fourteen, it's been 1210 01:43:18.800 --> 01:43:25.199 streaming WW content continuously for more than four to three thousand hours. This award 1211 01:43:25.239 --> 01:43:28.760 winning w network features again, like I said, every pay per view, 1212 01:43:29.359 --> 01:43:33.640 passing President, documentaries, and more. But the WW network wasn't the first 1213 01:43:33.640 --> 01:43:41.039 of a kind, was it? No. WWN or World Wrestling Network is 1214 01:43:41.039 --> 01:43:46.720 an American professional wrestling organization known for and branded after its video streaming service. 1215 01:43:47.199 --> 01:43:51.479 It was founded in two thousand and one as a DVD company before it later 1216 01:43:51.600 --> 01:43:58.319 evolved into an internet video on demand business. Fast forward to twenty fifteen, 1217 01:43:58.920 --> 01:44:04.000 WWN opened a training facility in Trinity, Florida. The same year, Evolve 1218 01:44:04.479 --> 01:44:11.359 began a partnership with WWE. Or Evolves talent were featured onwb dot com while 1219 01:44:11.399 --> 01:44:15.920 an ext talent like Emmy's and n chackab will keep part in Evolved events. 1220 01:44:16.000 --> 01:44:20.760 Then in twenty twenty, Evolved assets were sold to WWE. So you were 1221 01:44:20.840 --> 01:44:26.039 actually the one Michael then told me about WW and I had no idea about 1222 01:44:26.039 --> 01:44:29.399 it. So this is just a little bit info I found on it. 1223 01:44:29.399 --> 01:44:31.920 What else can you tell? Me about it. Oh well, okay, 1224 01:44:32.239 --> 01:44:36.560 Memphis smart, you're a smart guy. We've been our industry forever as far 1225 01:44:36.600 --> 01:44:41.159 as restaurants and nightclubs. Okay, so we're gonna put all of us in 1226 01:44:41.239 --> 01:44:46.319 the same kind of pool. When you see something that you can buy and 1227 01:44:46.520 --> 01:44:50.960 exploit and make it better, you would do it. Mark and I had 1228 01:44:50.960 --> 01:44:59.239 a boss who would do that kind of thing. And so the WWN was 1229 01:44:59.319 --> 01:45:03.800 founded by both Gabe Zapolski and Rob Einstein who started and well they didn't start, 1230 01:45:03.840 --> 01:45:10.079 but they pioneered tape trading starting working for ECW and then they got on 1231 01:45:10.119 --> 01:45:13.199 the I pay per view business when everybody thought that I pay per views in 1232 01:45:13.279 --> 01:45:18.039 the nineties and two thousands were secondary and garbage for the indies. Except they 1233 01:45:18.039 --> 01:45:23.560 started this little company called Ring of Honor based all that off all that money. 1234 01:45:23.840 --> 01:45:29.880 Who gave us seth Rollins, Sampunk, Daniel Brynson or Brian Danielson. 1235 01:45:30.319 --> 01:45:35.600 They gave us everybody who's everybody who's in the industry today. AJ Styles came 1236 01:45:35.640 --> 01:45:41.279 through their SMO Joe came through there. Everybody and their brother came through there. 1237 01:45:41.560 --> 01:45:50.600 Who became a star or passed through And so I look up what has 1238 01:45:50.680 --> 01:45:58.159 happened with it, And it was so funny that they had this internet streaming 1239 01:45:58.199 --> 01:46:00.760 service that was five different was four or five different companies. I think one 1240 01:46:00.840 --> 01:46:06.800 was a female wrestling company, but it was like Evolved, which was named 1241 01:46:06.800 --> 01:46:11.439 by Brian Danielson. People don't know this. Gabe Zapolsky said, we're going 1242 01:46:11.479 --> 01:46:13.760 to start a new company. What do you want to call it? And 1243 01:46:13.840 --> 01:46:16.840 Brian Danielson said to him, Evolve, because we're going to do something different. 1244 01:46:18.479 --> 01:46:24.279 Then you have like FIP, which is like what was there was their 1245 01:46:24.359 --> 01:46:28.640 version of an ECW and a few others, and so they were the first 1246 01:46:28.640 --> 01:46:36.439 person people to do this. And then ww Network launches at the same time, 1247 01:46:36.560 --> 01:46:41.760 like really close to the same time. They buy out Gabe Zapolsky. 1248 01:46:41.840 --> 01:46:47.000 They buy out all of his assets with WWN, and then they start the 1249 01:46:47.119 --> 01:46:51.399 network, which is eerily similar at the time as just a streaming service. 1250 01:46:53.079 --> 01:47:00.439 Would you call that infringement rights maybe or covering? That's a gray area. 1251 01:47:00.840 --> 01:47:08.199 It's fluid. There you go, it's fluid, Okay, I mean we 1252 01:47:08.199 --> 01:47:11.319 we we worked for a lot of the same people. We we knew a 1253 01:47:11.319 --> 01:47:13.600 lot of the same people. It's if you didn't like it, you bought 1254 01:47:13.640 --> 01:47:15.479 it, or if you liked it too much, you bought it. That's 1255 01:47:15.520 --> 01:47:18.920 it. That's it. If you liked it and they were successful, you 1256 01:47:19.000 --> 01:47:24.079 bought it and made it even better, and that's you're you're right, that's 1257 01:47:24.159 --> 01:47:28.920 that's exactly what they did. And they let the other person take the risk, 1258 01:47:29.439 --> 01:47:32.119 and then when they saw it was worth the reward, they took the 1259 01:47:32.199 --> 01:47:40.680 reward. And the thing that was interesting about WWN is that I think it 1260 01:47:40.720 --> 01:47:45.760 was per appearance contracts. So at like one point you had like EC three 1261 01:47:46.399 --> 01:47:53.439 and Drew McIntire as like tag team champions, when one work for Impact the 1262 01:47:53.479 --> 01:47:59.119 other one worked for I don't know whatever, and they were going, yeah, 1263 01:47:59.119 --> 01:48:03.479 it's like people who worked for like New Japan and some other indie promotion, 1264 01:48:04.239 --> 01:48:09.159 Rig of honor something like that, And so this all gets bought and 1265 01:48:09.199 --> 01:48:14.640 then like Gabe gets sucked into it all. It's very interesting how he was 1266 01:48:14.680 --> 01:48:17.079 brought into this fold and then with the Nick con era he was released and 1267 01:48:17.159 --> 01:48:20.199 all of a sudden, triple Achier he's brought back. But I'd bring that 1268 01:48:20.239 --> 01:48:27.399 guy back too, because he's created how many great wrestlers over the years. 1269 01:48:26.399 --> 01:48:31.399 It's really funny that there was that meld and people do not pay attention to 1270 01:48:31.439 --> 01:48:35.960 that being a very important turning point in life. And you think, well, 1271 01:48:36.800 --> 01:48:43.880 I question people to think what would have happened had Gabe Zapolski not went 1272 01:48:43.920 --> 01:48:47.439 to work for w W and sold his assets. Would we have that work? 1273 01:48:47.680 --> 01:48:51.840 Would we have had a lawsuit? Maybe I don't know, there never 1274 01:48:53.000 --> 01:48:56.319 was one, But do you think that maybe you can't say you were the 1275 01:48:56.359 --> 01:49:01.920 first wrestling streaming service. It's very very interesting right now we can just dive 1276 01:49:02.000 --> 01:49:05.239 deeper into that. But for the second time, we gotta gotta move on, 1277 01:49:05.319 --> 01:49:12.319 guys. I do want to touch on Prestomania being two nights twenty twenty, 1278 01:49:12.439 --> 01:49:15.600 was the first time they were headed to night WrestleMania for the first time 1279 01:49:15.600 --> 01:49:19.000 a resumenias for the first time a resume in is history. Restumentia thirty six 1280 01:49:19.079 --> 01:49:23.960 was taped and held across two nights. The tapings occurred on March twenty fifth 1281 01:49:24.000 --> 01:49:29.039 and twenty six, twenty twenty, and multiple locations, including the w W 1282 01:49:29.159 --> 01:49:32.479 Performance Center in Orlando, Florida. It would then air on tape delay on 1283 01:49:32.600 --> 01:49:38.359 April fourth and fifth. This was the only resumeting history with no fans in 1284 01:49:38.399 --> 01:49:42.279 attendance due to the pandemic area, and this was the first. It was 1285 01:49:42.319 --> 01:49:46.600 the first major even affected by the pandemic. This new format can be looked 1286 01:49:46.640 --> 01:49:50.840 at in both a good way and a bad way in the terms of money 1287 01:49:50.920 --> 01:49:57.359 and time for the company and for us as defens money wise, ww can 1288 01:49:57.399 --> 01:50:01.600 capitalize on selling package deals for two nights tickets, two night's worth of merchant 1289 01:50:01.640 --> 01:50:06.680 and two night's worth of concession cells, but that's kind of offset it. 1290 01:50:06.880 --> 01:50:11.399 And because w DEBE has to run out the stadium for two nights as well 1291 01:50:12.159 --> 01:50:15.800 as for time. I know, I enjoyed the two night format because it 1292 01:50:15.840 --> 01:50:20.279 gives us a four day restumening weekend. You got Friday night SmackDown with the 1293 01:50:20.319 --> 01:50:25.760 Hall of Fame. Saturday afternoon we got Stating Deliver and Next Tea and the 1294 01:50:25.960 --> 01:50:30.039 night one of WrestleMania. Then we have Night two of Mania, and then 1295 01:50:30.079 --> 01:50:34.720 we have Raw. So whichever city deb is in really really benefits big time 1296 01:50:34.760 --> 01:50:41.239 from weekend and all of this every day universe being in town. Now. 1297 01:50:41.359 --> 01:50:45.720 The time factor. The complaint was that resume MANI on one night was running 1298 01:50:45.760 --> 01:50:49.800 way too long between the time that you left your house or your hotel drove 1299 01:50:49.840 --> 01:50:54.439 to the stadium. Parts waiting in line get into the stadium, had to 1300 01:50:54.520 --> 01:51:00.159 pre show and then have been ten to twelve matches and one night. It's 1301 01:51:00.239 --> 01:51:02.319 close to an eight eight hour day. So by the time but we got 1302 01:51:02.319 --> 01:51:08.560 to the main event, the crowd was winded, tired, and or losing 1303 01:51:08.640 --> 01:51:12.840 interest. I can attest to this, haven't been an attendance to resume twenty 1304 01:51:12.840 --> 01:51:16.760 five, which had eleven matches. I can also confirm that not just for 1305 01:51:16.840 --> 01:51:19.800 me, but for most of the crowd. Energy it was gone for the 1306 01:51:19.840 --> 01:51:26.680 main event, especially after how much emotional energy was spent for the Taker HBK 1307 01:51:26.880 --> 01:51:30.520 match. So by the time we got to a Randy Orton versus Tripulates for 1308 01:51:30.560 --> 01:51:34.199 the main event, I could feel the crowd losing the interest. And that's 1309 01:51:34.199 --> 01:51:38.880 a shame because that storyline was done very, very well in my opinion, 1310 01:51:39.800 --> 01:51:43.840 and I was so excited to see the match. The only complaint I had 1311 01:51:43.960 --> 01:51:47.279 for it was that there was no blood, which I really truly felt that 1312 01:51:47.439 --> 01:51:53.279 riber recalled for I was expecting it. So now that we have a two 1313 01:51:53.359 --> 01:52:00.239 night Mania schedule dis favors you know the time factor for us and then Ivan 1314 01:52:00.760 --> 01:52:02.640 you know the four day MENI a weekend. How do you guys feel about 1315 01:52:02.640 --> 01:52:12.000 it. Well, I'm gonna take this from a business aspect because we've done 1316 01:52:12.119 --> 01:52:16.680 live events before where we have bands for two days or three day events, 1317 01:52:17.319 --> 01:52:23.760 and this is all about the company. The company can take all of these 1318 01:52:24.640 --> 01:52:28.760 the amount of video they have, they can cut this up, divide it 1319 01:52:28.840 --> 01:52:32.359 up in so many different ways. The crowd on an event like that is 1320 01:52:32.439 --> 01:52:35.880 not, in my opinion, is not that big of a deal in those 1321 01:52:35.960 --> 01:52:42.600 matches because they're doing so much editing and chopping up of this stuff. It's 1322 01:52:42.720 --> 01:52:45.640 it's the as far as being live, yes, I could definitely see it 1323 01:52:45.720 --> 01:52:48.399 being a let down on that, but as far as the moneymaking, they're 1324 01:52:48.399 --> 01:52:54.079 getting incentives from the city, from the state on taxes, They're getting breaks 1325 01:52:54.159 --> 01:52:58.640 on all these different things because they are bringing so much tax dollars in. 1326 01:52:59.399 --> 01:53:03.359 So it's a big win for the company, and I think it's it's probably 1327 01:53:03.359 --> 01:53:06.600 if you were to break it down, it is the biggest thing they do, 1328 01:53:06.680 --> 01:53:11.159 of course, but that's just you know, looking at it from a 1329 01:53:11.239 --> 01:53:16.319 business side only. Okay, so this is where I'm gonna interject. First 1330 01:53:16.319 --> 01:53:19.119 of all, Rustling, it was getting to be too big of a one 1331 01:53:19.199 --> 01:53:24.680 day event for all of us it was boring us to tears, and at 1332 01:53:24.720 --> 01:53:27.760 one point the booking was so bad that we just didn't care about it. 1333 01:53:27.800 --> 01:53:31.840 So breaking up into two days is good, it's relieving. However, you 1334 01:53:31.880 --> 01:53:36.119 always feel which day I'm ne hatch if if you work like myself in my 1335 01:53:36.279 --> 01:53:44.039 industry, you don't always have like congruent days off, so you know, 1336 01:53:44.199 --> 01:53:46.279 always get to see everything that you want to see. However, on the 1337 01:53:46.279 --> 01:53:51.720 flip side, it's what New Japan has been doing for years, and so 1338 01:53:51.960 --> 01:53:56.359 it was it was basically, Okay, what's New Japan doing. It's working 1339 01:53:56.359 --> 01:54:00.039 for them. So you know, New Japan had like this hot young group 1340 01:54:00.079 --> 01:54:03.479 called Bullet Club kind of come up and all of a sudden, like they 1341 01:54:03.880 --> 01:54:09.520 actually started a whole other wrestling companies. So maybe we should rip off what's 1342 01:54:09.560 --> 01:54:13.640 going on over there for a little bit, because it's easier to digest, 1343 01:54:13.840 --> 01:54:21.000 easier to make for the family, make for your time. You can hear 1344 01:54:21.039 --> 01:54:25.000 about one day, you can watch the other day, or maybe watch both 1345 01:54:25.079 --> 01:54:28.239 days. Like I said, I can't do four days of wrestling in a 1346 01:54:28.319 --> 01:54:33.640 row. I'm old. I can't, and and I worked too way too 1347 01:54:33.720 --> 01:54:40.399 much. However, some people can. Some people can absolutely digest it and 1348 01:54:40.439 --> 01:54:44.199 take it and have it as their whole thing. But getting back to it, 1349 01:54:44.600 --> 01:54:48.119 what really came down is it was it was an idea that obviously they 1350 01:54:48.159 --> 01:54:54.880 got from New Japan, which was a good idea. Now it would be 1351 01:54:54.880 --> 01:54:59.840 better if you took out the celebrities and the pageantry and all the garbage, 1352 01:55:00.039 --> 01:55:02.680 made it more about the wrestling and more about what really happened to build These 1353 01:55:02.680 --> 01:55:06.560 storylines are supposed to be the biggest things in the world, so there's ups 1354 01:55:06.600 --> 01:55:10.640 and downs to both. That's where I am with that. Well, I 1355 01:55:10.640 --> 01:55:15.600 think the celebrity involvement is kind can play into part of what pushes those pay 1356 01:55:15.600 --> 01:55:20.039 per view buyers back in the day two over the million mark. Now with 1357 01:55:20.680 --> 01:55:26.640 the streaming world that we live in, we have what what ww's calling a 1358 01:55:26.760 --> 01:55:30.359 premium live event. Now, I do know how some of our counterparts feel 1359 01:55:30.399 --> 01:55:35.800 to that. So just a little fact here. January one, twenty two, 1360 01:55:36.319 --> 01:55:42.159 Day One was the w's first event to be branded as a Premium Live 1361 01:55:42.199 --> 01:55:46.600 Event pl E is a term the company introduced to refer to their events airing 1362 01:55:47.039 --> 01:55:53.319 on pay per view and ww's live streaming platforms. With the boom of streaming 1363 01:55:53.880 --> 01:55:59.720 and with less focus on given to traditional pay perview channels and due to the 1364 01:56:00.000 --> 01:56:04.119 American version of the WB network merged, merging under Peacock and with the W 1365 01:56:04.239 --> 01:56:09.920 network still available in in gannal markets in twenty twenty two of the company, 1366 01:56:10.000 --> 01:56:13.359 that's when they began, or best when they began and why they started using 1367 01:56:13.439 --> 01:56:16.359 premium live event. I don't think I'm ever gonna get used to the same 1368 01:56:16.479 --> 01:56:21.560 plea or premium live event. Pay per views just sounds we was off the 1369 01:56:21.600 --> 01:56:30.039 tongue better. What do you guys feel about the ple moniker here? I've 1370 01:56:30.039 --> 01:56:33.000 had, Yeah, I've had to view this. Yeah, and when I've 1371 01:56:33.000 --> 01:56:38.880 described these on the Weekly Show and it's, uh, it's a joke. 1372 01:56:39.840 --> 01:56:43.439 I hate it, absolutely hate it. But I don't like change. And 1373 01:56:43.680 --> 01:56:47.680 maybe it's just I'm being an old guy and I'm not conforming. But it'll 1374 01:56:47.720 --> 01:56:53.279 always be pay per views. I'm kind of the same way, man. 1375 01:56:53.319 --> 01:56:58.119 I'm not that much younger than Mark Man. Honestly, you know, I 1376 01:56:58.199 --> 01:57:05.800 hated seeing at w W well A WrestleMania too, Mike Rotundo and and Barry 1377 01:57:05.800 --> 01:57:13.520 Wyndham defending the you know, WWE WWF at that time tag Team Championships. 1378 01:57:13.680 --> 01:57:18.720 Then years later, Mike Rotundo comes back and he's known as I RS don't 1379 01:57:18.760 --> 01:57:25.680 rename things. Don't do that to me. And it really defecates on anybody 1380 01:57:25.680 --> 01:57:29.920 who buys a ticket to any house show or any other show, because you're 1381 01:57:29.920 --> 01:57:34.680 saying it's a sub premium show. That's not fair. And that's part of 1382 01:57:34.680 --> 01:57:39.560 why the reason why I don't like the B level you know name for those 1383 01:57:39.560 --> 01:57:44.760 shows, because like I said, any pay per view is supposed to be 1384 01:57:44.760 --> 01:57:47.199 a big deal. You're supposed to have the best stor lives, the best 1385 01:57:47.199 --> 01:57:54.800 matches, title matches. So to your point about its being subpremium, if 1386 01:57:54.800 --> 01:58:00.000 you're at NWW, you are premium just playing simple, your premium athlete. 1387 01:58:00.560 --> 01:58:04.399 You're a premium talian U. With the different tiers of NXT, your on 1388 01:58:04.479 --> 01:58:11.239 SmackDown, you can, you're featured on a premium channel. So that's just 1389 01:58:11.319 --> 01:58:15.640 where I stand on it. It's it's it's it just it. It definitely 1390 01:58:15.720 --> 01:58:19.880 defecates on the product to say that you're on any other show besides a premium 1391 01:58:19.920 --> 01:58:24.319 live event. And so what are you gonna say, Yeah, I'm gonna 1392 01:58:24.319 --> 01:58:27.439 see a subpremium live event to your friends. They're gonna look at you like 1393 01:58:27.479 --> 01:58:33.159 you grew through the dironeball and that's silly. There's so many different terms you 1394 01:58:33.159 --> 01:58:35.720 could have used. Why change the term? It makes no sense, like 1395 01:58:35.760 --> 01:58:41.720 the medical facility versus hospital. There's so many things that do not make sense. 1396 01:58:42.279 --> 01:58:47.520 But but the fact is, like I don't care about the verbiage there. 1397 01:58:48.000 --> 01:58:50.359 You know, I'm gonna tell you honestly, I've never been to a 1398 01:58:50.399 --> 01:58:55.079 pay per view. I've never actually witnessed one in my life. I had 1399 01:58:55.119 --> 01:58:58.760 the opportunity to go to an impact one a few months ago, and Matt 1400 01:58:58.800 --> 01:59:00.960 and I talked about it. At was like, you know, if you 1401 01:59:01.000 --> 01:59:04.039 do it, you can cover it for the show. But I knew nothing 1402 01:59:04.079 --> 01:59:08.239 about what was going on in the product time, so it wasn't fair. 1403 01:59:10.079 --> 01:59:14.600 So I can tell you though about a friend of mine who passed away a 1404 01:59:14.600 --> 01:59:17.760 long time ago. He was he knew more about wrestling than me. Was 1405 01:59:17.880 --> 01:59:23.760 his name was Scott Blair, And he told me about how he won tickets 1406 01:59:24.079 --> 01:59:31.279 to a Survivor series in Cleveland, got his nineties, and he told me 1407 01:59:31.359 --> 01:59:36.840 how redneck it was, and he was he was sitting up there and this, 1408 01:59:38.000 --> 01:59:40.920 I mean, this guy was a red like he makes Mark and I 1409 01:59:41.079 --> 01:59:47.079 look pretty not basic, but he could put us in our places and definitely 1410 01:59:47.079 --> 01:59:51.000 correct us on stuff. So he was telling me how he's sitting in the 1411 01:59:51.039 --> 01:59:59.640 stands and Savio Vega is like putting gold dust in an armbar and someone screams, 1412 02:00:00.199 --> 02:00:01.840 break it for real, Savio do it for me. I don't like 1413 02:00:01.960 --> 02:00:08.760 that, and uses an explicative that I can't use on the show for a 1414 02:00:08.840 --> 02:00:17.079 gay slur. Then he talks about how, like another guy just had a 1415 02:00:17.159 --> 02:00:25.159 kid next to him screaming at invader cheater and cheater for like three and four 1416 02:00:25.399 --> 02:00:29.680 probably he said it went on for four minutes or five minutes, but it 1417 02:00:29.760 --> 02:00:33.000 felt like an eternity. And so I know, like some of those are 1418 02:00:33.039 --> 02:00:36.199 like really difficult to deal with when you do it and see it live, 1419 02:00:36.319 --> 02:00:40.880 And kind of one of the reasons I never have gone to one live because 1420 02:00:40.920 --> 02:00:43.000 if I'm not going to do it, I'm well, if I'm going to 1421 02:00:43.079 --> 02:00:45.640 do it, I'm not gonna sit I have to sit ringside, or I'm 1422 02:00:45.640 --> 02:00:50.359 not going to do it as one I'm trying to say, and I am 1423 02:00:50.399 --> 02:00:54.199 not going to spend a thousand dollars a ticket. And that's another thing we 1424 02:00:54.199 --> 02:00:59.760 should probably dust off and talk about right now. I mean, what look 1425 02:00:59.760 --> 02:01:04.800 at the ticket prices these days. They are absolutely insane and just for raws 1426 02:01:05.039 --> 02:01:12.560 and smackdowns, But those aren't premium live fence, So why would you want 1427 02:01:12.560 --> 02:01:16.840 to spend that much money for a sub premium life of that? Mark? 1428 02:01:17.000 --> 02:01:20.920 Would you spend to go to the Memphis calls him to see a banger that 1429 02:01:20.960 --> 02:01:26.760 would sell a place? Well, um, I would cut a yard and 1430 02:01:26.880 --> 02:01:33.600 take two coke bottles and exchange them and pay my two dollars and two twenty 1431 02:01:33.600 --> 02:01:39.039 five to get in. You paid a nickel for the program, and you 1432 02:01:39.119 --> 02:01:43.920 bought a fifteen cent coke and uh and if you were really cool and they 1433 02:01:43.920 --> 02:01:47.119 were really busy and you helped them empty, some trash guy coffee would let 1434 02:01:47.159 --> 02:01:54.800 you eat all the popcorn and about four extra hot dogs. So that's that's 1435 02:01:54.600 --> 02:01:59.039 that's my my upbringing. So you could go to a show for less than 1436 02:01:59.119 --> 02:02:04.159 what it had costs today's even park. Oh absolutely, yeah, yeah yeah 1437 02:02:04.640 --> 02:02:10.880 inside. Now here's here's the thing. When we talk about like pay per 1438 02:02:10.960 --> 02:02:13.600 view, premium live events and everything, we got to bring it back to 1439 02:02:13.640 --> 02:02:17.159 Evil caneval So, Mark, do you know why I bring his name up? 1440 02:02:18.039 --> 02:02:27.199 The King of closed circuit TV? Is evil Knevil And do you remember 1441 02:02:27.239 --> 02:02:30.479 what he was going to do pay per view? If you're referring to the 1442 02:02:30.479 --> 02:02:35.640 Snake River Canyon, that that is the biggest event that I can remember, 1443 02:02:35.760 --> 02:02:40.600 if that's what you're referring to. And it was a failed attempt, right, 1444 02:02:41.119 --> 02:02:45.960 absolutely failed if you look at it. And as far as him jumping, 1445 02:02:45.560 --> 02:02:49.039 but as far as sales and everything else, no, not a failed 1446 02:02:49.039 --> 02:02:56.359 event. So nobody bought anything after that. Well that's that's that's true, 1447 02:02:56.600 --> 02:03:00.720 that's true. But it was freaking evil caneval In. You had to see 1448 02:03:00.760 --> 02:03:04.000 it. Could he do it? He's broken every bone in his body? 1449 02:03:04.119 --> 02:03:10.560 Could he do it? And who was trying to fund all that? Oh? 1450 02:03:10.600 --> 02:03:13.960 Man, well now you're getting to you're gonna get me on that one 1451 02:03:14.520 --> 02:03:16.520 I had that. I had to change studios, as you remember, and 1452 02:03:16.600 --> 02:03:30.239 my notes are in the other room. Vince is Vince wanted to do nothing 1453 02:03:30.279 --> 02:03:34.720 more than to start pay per view as we know it as events, So 1454 02:03:36.359 --> 02:03:42.760 Vince his idea. When it failed with that and seeing the money loss and 1455 02:03:42.920 --> 02:03:49.399 potentials, he bought out his dad's company. And his dad said doing he 1456 02:03:49.520 --> 02:03:54.560 said, don't take it national, You're gonna step on other people's toes. 1457 02:03:55.079 --> 02:03:59.359 And he only had the idea of grandeur of pay per view because of the 1458 02:03:59.399 --> 02:04:01.880 revenue st and you would get out of it. We have pay per view 1459 02:04:02.399 --> 02:04:06.680 today because of Vince, and we have premium live events because he wants to 1460 02:04:06.760 --> 02:04:15.920 change the world. And gross mustache and thank you somebody else, but go 1461 02:04:15.920 --> 02:04:18.760 ahead. I was just wondered when the mustache was gonna. Okay, were 1462 02:04:18.800 --> 02:04:25.119 it's ugly face, mister mustachio. But I mean, let's let's let's break 1463 02:04:25.119 --> 02:04:29.680 it down, guys. The realism is if you read sex, Lives and 1464 02:04:29.720 --> 02:04:32.880 headlocks or death the territories, Vince wanted to be in the pay per view 1465 02:04:32.920 --> 02:04:38.399 business. He never wanted to be in the wrestling business. It's failed ventures 1466 02:04:38.439 --> 02:04:43.800 that brought him to where he was. And that's why Evil Knevil's name is 1467 02:04:43.840 --> 02:04:48.119 really important. You base it off of one venture and then you can't make 1468 02:04:48.159 --> 02:04:56.920 another venture. Wow. Well that seems like another in depth topic for another 1469 02:04:57.000 --> 02:05:03.119 day, but we have to recap and sign fellas today. We started with 1470 02:05:03.279 --> 02:05:10.760 the title of pay per view to p E. We covered the early days 1471 02:05:10.800 --> 02:05:15.159 of wrestling before wrestling was on TV. We covered the closed circuit days, 1472 02:05:15.479 --> 02:05:20.000 the tape trading days, the new generation steroid era, the B level pay 1473 02:05:20.039 --> 02:05:26.640 per views. We covered the network and streaming, the w w N, 1474 02:05:26.800 --> 02:05:33.880 which was the first online streaming company. We covered fifty year history here, 1475 02:05:33.920 --> 02:05:38.359 Fellas. UM. I know we had to condense it due to the time. 1476 02:05:38.840 --> 02:05:43.079 UM, and there's just so much we could just go in depth about. 1477 02:05:43.520 --> 02:05:45.640 UM. I think we covered a lot of the media potatoes of it. 1478 02:05:45.840 --> 02:05:49.199 UM. So let's let's sign off, Fellas. I know, Mark, 1479 02:05:49.199 --> 02:05:53.159 you're gonna be on tonight doing your NXT review. It is Tuesday. 1480 02:05:53.239 --> 02:05:56.840 You'll be doing that. UM. Tell our listeners where they can find you 1481 02:05:56.840 --> 02:06:01.279 on social media going forward. Oh, you can find me on Twitter at 1482 02:06:01.319 --> 02:06:05.800 Memphis. Mark for you on Twitter, and of course every Tuesday night on 1483 02:06:05.880 --> 02:06:12.840 the next review and generally other than that, I'm hiding from everybody for a 1484 02:06:12.840 --> 02:06:15.800 little while. Rock cast I'm just gonna hide for a little while. Rocky, 1485 02:06:16.520 --> 02:06:18.920 I've been there. What about you, Mike, as we all know 1486 02:06:19.560 --> 02:06:26.960 on Twitter, Captain one four four four or one one four four captain, 1487 02:06:27.039 --> 02:06:30.640 it's four captain. You know you can find me. You want to talk 1488 02:06:30.640 --> 02:06:33.439 wrestling, you want to do anything wrestling related, just reach out to me. 1489 02:06:33.520 --> 02:06:36.199 Man. This show isn't for us as much as it is for you 1490 02:06:36.239 --> 02:06:41.279 guys, because if you're getting fed up with Den's being back ter mustachio, 1491 02:06:41.359 --> 02:06:44.479 which I've gotten a lot of credit from that one, I want to make 1492 02:06:44.560 --> 02:06:46.520 more shows for you folks. So let's talk about the things that no one's 1493 02:06:46.520 --> 02:06:53.159 talking about. We have beautiful shows like this today was great. Yes, 1494 02:06:53.680 --> 02:06:57.800 thank you both for coming on giving your input. I can be reached at 1495 02:06:58.079 --> 02:07:01.960 Rockies Club zero zero seven on Twitter. That's my dedicated resting page where everything 1496 02:07:02.039 --> 02:07:05.560 resting. Anybody you want to hit me up between an inbox we can talk 1497 02:07:05.560 --> 02:07:11.199 to something further. Mike, Well quick, do we have a topic or 1498 02:07:11.800 --> 02:07:15.159 we have a list of topics that where we're considering for the next show. 1499 02:07:15.319 --> 02:07:19.520 Well, you know, I really liked the idea of Calgary Stampeda. Somebody 1500 02:07:19.600 --> 02:07:24.199 has sent me some requests about, hey, why don't you cover all the 1501 02:07:24.239 --> 02:07:28.399 greats that he came out of the heart territory from up north. So I 1502 02:07:28.439 --> 02:07:30.359 really like that. But it's you know, you and I have to decide 1503 02:07:30.359 --> 02:07:35.720 together. This is our show, it's not just mine, and so that's 1504 02:07:35.800 --> 02:07:43.399 that's one that's out there. I've also heard best brawlers ever because people liked 1505 02:07:43.439 --> 02:07:46.920 when I did my show, and I talked about Bruiser Brody, and I've 1506 02:07:47.039 --> 02:07:54.960 recently become a fan of Bruiser Brody. People want to actually hear more about 1507 02:07:54.960 --> 02:07:57.399 like some of the best brawlers. They always say like, oh shame, 1508 02:07:57.439 --> 02:07:59.319 this is great, And I'm like, you don't know what great is. 1509 02:08:00.039 --> 02:08:03.239 Don't You've never seen buzz Sawyer, You've never seen Brutes Brody. And so 1510 02:08:03.520 --> 02:08:09.600 some people are like asking fans listeners, I don't know what to I don't 1511 02:08:09.640 --> 02:08:13.439 want to call you seedlings because Rockies here, Mark's here, It's it's not 1512 02:08:13.520 --> 02:08:18.319 just my fan, but when you reach me, I want to hear your 1513 02:08:18.399 --> 02:08:24.439 voice. So that's that's another good one. I thinking about maybe talking to 1514 02:08:24.479 --> 02:08:30.359 a couple other people, some wrestlers, some retired wrestlers, but it's it's 1515 02:08:30.439 --> 02:08:33.720 it's all a work in progress as far as what you and I can condra 1516 02:08:33.000 --> 02:08:41.279 a little bit of wrestle magic with. I also want to tell people a 1517 02:08:41.399 --> 02:08:46.000 song in a movie. Yes, go ahead, okay, so everybody. 1518 02:08:46.199 --> 02:08:50.920 The song I'm going to give you is called No Fair Fights by the band 1519 02:08:52.079 --> 02:09:00.439 Prick, and the movie I'm gonna give You for Everybody is Brotherhood of Wolf. 1520 02:09:00.439 --> 02:09:03.479 It is a Spanish movie. It's a lot of fun to watch. 1521 02:09:03.560 --> 02:09:07.560 It's very long, and it's not Spanish, it's a French movie, excuse 1522 02:09:07.560 --> 02:09:11.840 me, but it's a fun movie, has a little something for everybody. 1523 02:09:11.880 --> 02:09:13.760 I wouldn't have the kids in the room because there's a little bit of nudity 1524 02:09:13.840 --> 02:09:18.760 in it. But it's just a great movie. And you know you want 1525 02:09:18.760 --> 02:09:22.159 to kill a couple of hours and you have nothing to do at the end 1526 02:09:22.159 --> 02:09:24.560 of the night. Sure you have to read the subtitles, but you'll love 1527 02:09:24.560 --> 02:09:28.600 the movie, all right, Mark, you got something for us, man, 1528 02:09:28.680 --> 02:09:33.760 I'm just gonna in this with real, simple and sweet man. Be 1529 02:09:33.960 --> 02:09:37.279 nice to everybody because you don't know what they're going through. And if you 1530 02:09:37.439 --> 02:09:41.600 can rescue, there's animals out there that need some help. And always spay 1531 02:09:41.640 --> 02:09:48.000 your New Year, all right. And for myself, I don't have any 1532 02:09:48.000 --> 02:09:50.720 new shows to put out there right now. The last few movies I saw 1533 02:09:50.000 --> 02:09:54.159 was Chapter four of John Wick, so if you've seen those, definitely check 1534 02:09:54.199 --> 02:09:58.359 it out. It is a lengthy movies, almost going three hours, but 1535 02:09:58.600 --> 02:10:01.720 it's very good. And for all the families out there, if you haven't 1536 02:10:01.720 --> 02:10:05.479 already, get out there and see the do Mario Brothers movie. I Took 1537 02:10:05.520 --> 02:10:07.720 My Kid last Week is very good. This movie is definitely going to be 1538 02:10:07.800 --> 02:10:16.000 a trilogy, maybe even more. And a little a little saying for people 1539 02:10:16.039 --> 02:10:20.000 out there. Love being the target of enemy. It means you're winning. 1540 02:10:20.560 --> 02:10:24.159 But if you're living on the slope where you slip, where you slope, 1541 02:10:24.279 --> 02:10:31.079 stop doing rain dances. And one last thing, and I quote, hard 1542 02:10:31.119 --> 02:10:37.039 work pays off, dreams come true, Bad times don't last, but by 1543 02:10:37.439 --> 02:10:43.920 guys do Yeah. I love this show. All right, fellas, I 1544 02:10:43.920 --> 02:10:48.840 guess that's gonna close it out and we'll talk to everybody next time. All 1545 02:10:48.920 --> 02:10:54.359 right, it's right bye, guys. Thanks for listening to the w w 1546 02:10:54.600 --> 02:11:01.039 E Podcast. Don't forget to subscribe on your favorite podcast app so you don't 1547 02:11:01.119 --> 02:11:05.119 miss a show, or head to WWE podcast dot com and for all of 1548 02:11:05.159 --> 02:11:13.039 these shows ad free head over to Patreon dot com SLASHWWE podcast. Until then, 1549 02:11:13.199 --> 02:11:15.359 we'll see you next time.