Welcome back, fellow thermonuclear affers. I am Dampa Valley coming at you with
yet another NBA team look Ahead that we will pray does not get outdated like
all the other ones. As soon as we finished recording, I am super
excited to be joined once again. Frequent guest and now longtime friend of the
podcast, Lazarus Jackson. Follow him on Twitter immediately and forever at Last Chance.
That's at LA z c H A n c E. He is a
co host of the Detroit bad Boys podcast, which is a fantastic podcast.
Go check it out. He's also an editor for the Detroit bad Boys website,
and he's a participant in hashtag NBA Twitter and the Dean of Pistons Twitter.
I hope that they pay you to be the Dean of Pistons Twitter.
Las. The most important question I will ask you this podcast. How the
heck are you? Dan? I'm doing so well right now. Media Day
was Monday. I'm very excited for the season to start. Is good to
be here and talk with you. I feel like the season isn't really around
the corner until you hit me up on Twitter. It was like, Hey,
you want to talk about the Bustins for an hour and I'm like,
yeah, yeah, let's do that. That sounds fun. Look, I
love these chats, but I feel like when I start doing these previews look
Aheads because they're not previews like these are. These are bougie and more in
depth there look Aheads. But that's when the season starts for me, is
when I have to start thinking about this. And I'm always thrilled when people
agree to come back on, especially if it's more than twice, because like
once or twice, you'd be like, oh, they don't really know what
they're getting into. But like you, this is like your eighth appearance on
this podcast, because we've done other stuff as well, so you know what
you're getting into. So I'm always humbled that you agree to come back.
I do have another question that's only semi Pistons related. How is Chance doing?
Chances doing great? We got him some dueling like University of Michigan Michigan
State gear, and so now whoever whoever wins the game the football game later
this year gets to dress him up and do all the Instagram posts and everything
he can walk. That's the other that's the other big news. So last
time we talked, he was just like a little you know, like Amiba
couldn't do anything. Now he can walk and that means he can walk away.
It means he can walk towards you, and that means in a second
he'll be able to run. And that's kind of terrifying. But chances doing
great. Thanks for asking. He already you before we started recording much.
He has homies already, So I was just like, I feel like he
was like not even like he was just crawling last time we spoke, So
he is growing up. How guted will you be if you lose the Michigan
versus Michigan State. I don't have to watch him where the others barb the
rest of the year. Devastated, devastated. That is quite literally the only
football game my wife cares about, and so to lose that game is just
like subject myself to twelve months of shit talking. I hate it, and
that what I ever hear people talk about college football. It makes me wish
that I cared about college football. But I just didn't attend to college.
Granted I was at Penn State for a year, but I just the college
I transferred to. It never got into it, but the way people are
so passionate about it, and even college basketball, I'm like, I wish
I was into that, and I'm just not. College football is a really
fun like ceremonial thing, right, Like you love the pageantry. You go
to a couple of games and it just kind of secks you in. But
also it's so funny that the characters kind of stay the same. You know,
the top five teams are the only teams with any shot at all to
win, and everybody else is just kind of floating. You just kind of
see what happens. So you tune in, and you know, some years
Tennessee is good and some years are in some years Michigan State Secondary can't cover
anybody, and I'm frustrated. So actually, let's talk about the Pistons.
Let me not get started on the Michigan State Spartan stateship. Yes, the
Pistons, which is why we're here. I think so based off the reaction
to the Brandon Bardonovitch trade nationally, it seems like there was the sense of,
well, what are the Pistons doing? And I kind of just viewed
everything they've done is like they're still rebuilding. They're just trying to optimize like
the youngsters around them and streamline their development. Is that the accurate theme of
what happened to this offseason or is there anything else that's sort of sticking with
you about their direction as we enter this year. I think for the most
part, that's that's fairly accurate. Like I mentioned, Media Day was yesterday,
Troy Weaver like does not talk to the media very often, and so
when he does talk, you sorry, you gotta get that one in there.
It was like, but when he does talk, right, you gotta
pay attention because he's only going to talk like twice a year, and whenever
you talk, he always like unveils like a piece of like branding for the
year, Like what what the theme of the year is going to be?
A couple of years ago, it was, you know, it was restoration.
Uh, you can't restore something that like wasn't already great. A couple
of year last year, it was the clip is going to be empty.
He's gonna fire everything in an attempt to make this team good. This year
it's ground zero. Where at ground zero? So my interpretation of what ground
zero meant is that when he took over the team two years ago, they
were underwater and now they have kid and they're not and so like that's that's
a pretty good thing, but it also means, right like at ground zero,
you still have you still have a place up to go. And I
think they expect the bulk of their progression to come from internal development of the
young guys. I think the framework you like establish of like young guys plus
like vets who complement their skill sets is accurate. But like you gotta remember,
Troy Weaver is at heart a scout from like upstate New York who didn't
it was like his dad wasn't in the NBA, right, Like, he
didn't know anybody. He ground his way up. He climbed up from the
mud, and he wants guys that are gonna, you know, echo that
sentiment. He wants guys who are gonna, you know, work really hard
themselves. And so uh, that's what I think the Pistons are headed this
season. Like they would. The expectations are a little weird, like they'd
be fine if they made the plan, but they're not like pushing really hard
for it, And even in like public comments or in like the moves they've
made, they don't seem like they think of themselves as a guaranteed like play
in team. But I also don't think they want to be one of the
teams with the three worst records in the league like they were last year.
At the top of the draft, there is like Scoot and Victor, like
it would be cool to add one of those guys. But I think that
they think that they already have a guy, the guy in Kade, and
they want to start the building around him process more than they feel like they
need another the guy. I will say, if they did end up with
Victor, Wemban Yaman and Kate counting him on the same team, I'm just
predicting a dynasty at that point. Like that's just that's that's where I'd be
going if they ended up with him. I can't, I can't let it
enter my heart just yet, Like I gotta, I gotta keep my self
separate. And because I think they're gonna endup with like the fifth or sixth
pick, right and and so like that that's where we're gonna go, Like
we have no shot at Victor, Like it's it's fine, it's fine,
it's fine. The Boy and Madonovias trade. Though I loved it for the
pistons even, I mean the opportunity cost was fine, Like you sort of
clear up a little bit of congestion at center, and then I don't really
know we're savingly factored in when you had Ivy and Killian Hayes and Kike Cunningham
as well, what did you think of the trade? And just about one
boyans fit? But then also too, how do you expect him to be
used with this team? I love the trade, I love the fit.
I loved his skill set, I love his contract. So it's like I
love basically everything about this trade. I think he fits in as a starter,
as an immediate starter. It would be a little like I've been surprised
at how many people aren't necessarily assuming that he will be a day one starter.
It's like it's a little weird on in my mind just because he might
be their second best player, like right away, and so like why why
wouldn't you start that guy? I know there's a desire to see the youth
movement, but this guy's still pretty good in terms of like what he brings
to the table. I expect him to can just continue to space the floor,
keep the offense moving with or without the ball, Bryce Simon, who
does a lot of work for us at Detroit Bad Boys and is a great
follow on Twitter and does a lot of YouTube content. He broke down by
a bunch brought to Utah last year, and there's a lot of stuff off
screens. There's a lot of stuff off movement. That an element that's really
an element the Pistons like didn't have at all last year. And to add
something like that in addition to like a guy who will shoot, you know,
high thirties, low forties percent from three is really useful. I think
he'll also be able to take like a little bit of playmaking ball handling duties
off of kid's plate. But that's not something I think that that's not like
why you brought him in, right. I think it's something he can do,
but that's not what I think he'll be asked to do like all the
time. There's also the possibility, like he gets flipped at question, like
there's I would I don't want to predict, but if they move him,
I think they get a first round pick for him. I think that the
Jazzer at a disadvantage because they were trying to you know, there are only
a few teams at had cap space. They were trying to shed salaries part
of this trade, and at this time of year, teams aren't willing to
like that. They're not willing to make if it's a star, sure,
but like teams are trying to figure out what they have, and Boyam O'donovitch
is very much a guy that maybe you acquire midstream when you understand, like
what's your proximity to contention, what does your roster actually need after undergoing changes?
And so if the Pistons do move him, my bet would be I'm
not saying they'll get a lottery pick, but I might bet would be they
get a protected first round pick for him. I hope you're right, but
it feels weird to transform like Mason plum Lely into Kelly Olnik into Boyon plus
another like top twenty five pick like that. That daisy chain feels a little
weird. But you justified as it is the only plumb Ly left in the
league, and so perhaps he's like, that's hot commodity. So we follow
that trade tree to a first round pick? Makes sense? It does,
it does, but it's weird to me to expect to get like a top
twenty five pick four Boyon in the future when Utah wasn't able to extract a
top twenty five pick, and like, you're right, you know, mid
season. My thinking is like, you know, somebody gets injured, some
playoff team needs reinforcements, and so like there and they think they're closer,
like they think they'd be closer with boy On, and so they're more willing
to part with something like a future asset. But for right now, like
I think he probably just ends up a free agent at the end of the
season with the Pistons, we say, you know, we shake his hand,
say thank you for the memories, thank you for the forty percent from
three and giving Kaide a lot of space. It's like, we appreciate it.
Let's get the nineteen million dollars in cap space in here, please.
What are you looking to see from Kaide in year two? And I think
a lot of people are going to be well, the efficiency needs to climb,
which sure, and I guess he has more space. I look,
I'm fascinating to see how he develops as like a passer, looking specifically at
the turnovers. But what's the biggest thing are you looking at year two?
Kid? Cunning him. The biggest thing for me is the three point accuracy,
which is also kind of like another like big like dumb moment, Like,
yes, he needs to shoot better than thirty one percent from three,
But once he starts being more proficient on like pull up or off the dribble
threes, that forces defenses to go over on screens, which opens up like
driving lanes and pay touches for him. And that opens up, you know,
help defenders coming at him to avoid like giving up shots at the rim,
and that opens up playmaking avenues for him, and so like him being
able to draw defenses in like in that way is the route from which,
like the rest of his game should be able to grow. I expect the
efficiency to go up as he takes more free throws, not even like shoots
better from free throw all right, Like he shot like eighty five percent from
the line, Like that's fine, but he only took like two and a
half a game, And there were very clearly a lot of times last year
where he was not getting to the line at a rate. Commiserate with somebody
who was like who had the ball as much as like he had the ball
last year he scored like against Denver, he had like thirty points and zero
free throws and he got like whacked like four times. And it's just like,
I don't It's like it's just rookie stuff, right, Like you you
expect the trips of the line to go up. I expect the turnovers to
go down, just as he gets more used to the speed of the game.
He also he came into media day reportedly looking stronger, reportedly gained weight,
reportedly shoulders a little bit bigger, and the whole nine yeah, the
whole nine yards, right, the full pr propaganda campaign. But there were
times last year where he was like very clearly winded at the end of games.
And there were also times last year where the lack of strength displayed itself
in his handle. He would just like lose the ball and you it was
like, that's weird. But it's also like two points going the other way
and you gotta fix that. And so I do hope that, you know,
some of the physical strength, some of the physical changes he made this
season help in those departments, and it also like helps him again like draw
free throws and everything. The other thing is like if he doesn't make that
improvement from three, if he if he doesn't shoot better than like thirty three
thirty four percent from three, it really limits like the other things he'll be
able to accomplish as a playmaker. Defenses will just be able to go under
screens, wall up around the paint, and he won't get to take advantage
of one of his like better skills, which is his passing ability. And
so he really needs to shoot better from three, but he needs to shoot
better on self created threes they needed last season. When you watch him though
last year, it was like, okay, if they had someone where he
could either trade off ball handling responsibilities with or more critically better space in the
half court, I just expect that efficiency to climb just watching him, like
I'm not I don't want to be eye test guy here, but it's just
like Kate Cunningham has it in every single way. To me, do you
think they have surrounded him with enough complimentary talent, whether you think that secondary
ball handling or shooting for him to at least optimize him or put him in
the best situation to make the improvements that you're talking about. Before the boy
On trade, I would have said like tenuously yes. Now with boy On,
like I can say like absolutely, like yes, they added two guys
who shot in the forty percent range from three last year, and Burs and
boy On, you can like safely assume that like one of those guys will
be on the court with Kaide at all times, and then like, yes,
you are relying on a lot of internal improvement from three from guys like
from guys like Sadique Bay who shot worse from three than you imagine, and
we're gonna talk about that in the future, from guys like Jade and Ivey,
who is I think I think it's fair to call him an inconsistent but
not bad shooter right now, from guys like Killy and Hayes, who I
think it's fair to call a like a not great shooter at this time.
But so adding another guy who you can like you can play Burks and boy
On together, and then all of a sudden, like there's no play,
there's no safe place on either one on other wing from for the defense to
hide. And so like yes, with the boy On trade, I can
safely say they added enough three point spacing a round cade that I feel comfortable
about his improvement and development going into the season. You mentioned jay N Ivey,
who I won't pretend to know a ton about his game because I don't
really get into rookies until they entered the league. But do you have any
general impressions on his game and his fitnext to Cade early on? And two
how do we like, do you have any expectation of how he's going to
be used? Like, is this going to be the case nous of Oh,
Jade and Ivy's gonna have a very short leash? Or is he gonna
have like the agency to make mistakes and play a bunch to start? I
think he gets the short leash. Casey talked a lot about how he gave
Killian like too much leash to start and how he feels like that probably wasn't
great for him. And so, prior to the news we got about Alec
Burksley's still recovering from his injury, I was I was expecting that Jade and
Ivy come off the bench to start the season. Now that we know that
Burke's probably won't be ready for the season, he like probably won't play much
in training camp, he won't be ready at all a preseason, And so
I think it's safe to say that like Jade and Ivy will be the starting
shooting guard like by default, because the other option is like starting Corey Joseph
and like, I don't want to do that again. Like I got a
lot more love in Kojo for Cojo in my heart than I used to,
but like I saw enough of that last year, Like we don't need it,
and like now the Kojo player option was one of my favorite things of
these the twenty twenty one off season. I think it was whatever was that
was one of just my favorite, Like, oh, Kojo got a player
option. I'm with it. They cut him. He had like five million
dollars worth of dead money on our books. They resigned him and gave him
a player option. It's just Troy. We were loves doing favors for dudes
and like that. That was a big favor for Kojo. But back to
Jade and Ivy. I'm gonna get in trouble. Yeahs aggregator alert, aggregate
it. This is one of those things where it's like I am I have
the unpopular opinion on Piston's in Piston's Land, Like everybody wants to be really
really excited about the number five overall. Pick the like flashy guy who like
has a lot of highlights and does fun stuff. And he does have a
lot of highlights, and he does do fun stuff, and like he would
be a really nice fit next to Kade. But the thing that I keep
coming back to is that the partnership between them seems more beneficial for Jade Nivey
than it does for Kade. So that makes me. That makes me dubious,
because it's supposed to be all about Cade, right, Like Ivy's a
really good compliment to him, the as like the fire and Ice, right,
Like Jade wants to play fast, Kade likes to play at his own
pace. We saw in Las Vegas how transformational of the pace of the game,
like Jade Nivey can play at it, Like especially in the Portland game
that was the first game. In the first half, he kind of struggled.
He was like looking to make reads in the half court. He threw
the ball like right to a wing defender like one time and a turnover that
like I just can't get out of my head. But in the second half
he was just like screw it, Like I'm just gonna go barreling head first
into the rim at every opportunity and no one could stay in front of him.
They started like setting picks from like thirty feet away like Yannis, like
just to give him a runway, and it was working. And so it's
like if you can get away from doing that at the next level, like
absolutely, you should do that. And it's fun to watch you do that.
It's fun to just like watch you like blow past everybody with like your
hundred speed on NBA two k The thing is like Kate doesn't want to play
that way, and if you have Jaden who wants to play that way,
and Kad who doesn't, and Kade is the guy. Like again, they're
they're complimentary, but my desire was to get someone who amplified Kaide. They're
not complimenting him. Right. The way Jade and Ivy makes Kid's life easier
is by taking the ball out of his hands to play at a tempo that
Kaye can play at. But I want Kade playing at the tempo he's comfortable
with, right, Like I want him playing in the way they're like he
feels most comfortable playing. I think Jay Navy is like a really really good
player. I always get accused of like hating Jade and Ivy. I've gotten
it into like it with a lot of people on social media about like how
much I hate Jade Nivy And I don't hate Jade Nivy. I think he's
a really really good player. But when you look at like the comparisons people
made to the type of player they expected him to be, right, it
was your Donovan Mitchell's, your Russell Westbrooks, your Victor Oladipo's, Like those
guys did their their damage alongside like the Ricky Rubios and Andre Roberson's of the
league. And like Kade is not Ricky Rubio, right, like we like
we should not limit Kay to being Ricky Rubio like in that way. And
that's not that's not prescriptive, right, It's not set in stone. There
are ways you can do. You can work around this. Jade and Ivy
could be a better on ball and off ball defender than he was in college,
and that would be like one way to make this pairing work a little
bit better. He can be a more consistent off ball shooter. He made
shots in summarily, but uh, like when he threw it up, I
did not know if it was going in or not. And I think that
that is I think teams are going to force him to shoot and try and
like wall him out of the paint because they know he can get to the
paint. But if they're going to make him a shooter, so like he
has to make more shots like that going forward, and then you can you
can stagger them, right, Like that's the other obvious thing, just like
always have one of them on the floor, and like when when the guy
is when each guy is on the floor by themselves, they can play at
whatever pace they feel most comfortable at. And that's tough for the defense to
adjust to. And I understand and like respect that. And like Jay and
Ivy also needs to get better between the arc and the paint, Like he
has no mid range game to speak of, and like that is where the
bulk of his decision making like really turns into a big question mark. He's
so used to being able to go from zero to like eighty that when he
has to go from like zero like fifty five and make it a vision still
kind of doesn't know really what to do with the ball. And that's that's
troubling for me. I don't love that. But like if he does all
these things too, like you're kind of taking away from makes some special right,
like if you if you take the ball out of his hands, he's
like not Donovan Mitchell anymore. And so then you feel like you're not really
hitting the most, you're not getting the most out of like what Jade Nivey
could be right? It was like I would I would love to be wrong
about this, but as like I fear I'm right, but like I would
just love to, like fast forward twenty two months and like where the pairing
didn't quite work out and they turned Jade Nivey into r J. Barrett.
Oh god, I would I would love to turn uh not c A A
client RJ Barrett into c A A client Jade nive How does that sound from
H? I'm not I'm like terrible of covering the NBA now because I need
to care more about who's rep by who and I don't. But if Jay
Nivy is indeed rep by CIA, you'll get more more than RJ. Barrett
for him then, so there's some good news. You have you thought way
more about it than I have. You know way more about Jay and Ivy's
game than I do. But that was my overarching concern is that it feels
like if this pairing was going to work. It takes more adaptation on Kade's
part than Jay and Ivy's part, largely because to me, I don't know
what Jay and Ivy is if you take the ball out of his hands right
now, and I if anything begins with I understand that, you know,
the dichotomy can be good. And as you mentioned, you stagger and I'm
never gonna if you have two. I'm never gonna say teams have too much
creation on their team. But like, if anything begins with both, Ka
just needs to play off the ball more. I'm out, Like, I'm
just like taking the ball outvocate, cutting hands hands is just not the answer
to me. It's like the Russell Westbrook Lebron James stuff. Oh this is
gonna work because when Lebron doesn't play, or you can move Lebron off the
ball. And I'm like, if any solution begins with, well, don't
put the ball in le Bronze hands, or look how good we'll be without
Lebron, I don't really want to hear it. And this is on a
different level. Jay and Ivy so so young, and he's already probably better
off ball shooter than Russell Westbrook but like I don't, do you have any
sense of what he could be off the ball? And I will say,
I know you mentioned you're concerned about his decision making when he can get sort
of going downhill when he got the early comps to John Morant, I think
those were white off base. I will say some of like the passes and
decisions he has made after leaving his feet where like I didn't recognize they were
happening. I see the vision there, but again I don't that doesn't really
impact like or optimize his fit alongside Kade at all. No, I get
you, And it's like all right, it's like not even like Russell Westbrook,
that's a very loaded topic and like Kaid's not Lebron either, like Mabe.
I would love for that to happen, but that's probably not gonna happen,
So just put this aside for a second. It's talking about like Luca,
right, Like Luca I think is a Luca's also like way better than
Kade it was at this point in his career. But I think that's like
a more achievable outcome in terms of It's like that's in terms of degrees like
from Luca to Lebron, but like also like let's just keep it going.
Jalen Brunson was like a really good partner with Luca don chit like last season,
and a lot of it was because like Jalen Brunson could do weird stuff
like post up and like make off the make off the catch threes, right,
I don't see how It's like, I hope Jade and Ivy is able
to like reach that level as a catch and shoot player, but like,
I don't think that's going to be the way it goes. Like right out
of the gate, Brunson was undersized as a defender, but competitive in a
way that I think you hope Jade and Ivy emulates. But Jaden is more
of the guy who a lot of Jalen's like defensive Jaden's defensive impact came from
like him operating as like a help side guy, threatening passing lanes with his
insane athleticism, rather than like as an on ball decision maker guy. Right,
it was like, I I hope this works, but like I don't
want to. I like I want Kaide to be the guy. And if
Jade and Ivy is also like a guy, it's like I feel like you're
not getting the most out of Jade and Ivy in that scenario. This is
this is like this is a very tenuous spot of contention, right because like
everybody wants to love Jade and Ivy. I also want to love Jade and
Ivy, but like I also am trying to be realistic, Like, if
the Pistons are gonna go anywhere, it's gonna because it's going to be because
they were driven there by Kaide, and so like you've got to make Kaide's
life easier and taking the ball out of his hands, like it is not
necessarily like easier, right, So for the aggregators, you can till a
Pistons insider, Thanks, Pistons need to trade Jade and Ivy for basically,
yeah, you're welcome. So the Pistons have been pretty adamant that Isaiah Stewart's
going to play alongside another big At media day, I saw he was talking
about how he watched a lot about Horford this summer, which at one point
makes me really excited it and then a little bit terrified, like is that
he's like a realistic player for him to emulate his game? After what do
you make of that? Do you think that they're really gonna give him more
of a license to chuck threes this year. Who's the front corp partner you
most want to see him alongside. I'm just I'm I guess I'm like morbidly
fascinated by the whole like Isaiah Stewart plan in Detroit. So it's really funny
too, because like if you just like glance, you're like, oh yeah,
like if he learns to shoot, like he could totally be Al Horford
undersized like center, power forward guy. And then you like think about how
how Al Horford's like basketball like Q is and how that plays in like how
he operates offensively and defensively. And I love Stu, but like he hasn't
always like shown that level of basketball field and so like comparing him to Al
Horford is like a little bit much probably, But he's one hundred percent going
to take more threes this year, right, Like they they really focused and
emphasize that. In Summer League, he shot I think five of nine from
three in two games, and so it was great to see. He's massive
sample size by the way he's been able to He's anytime he got the green
light to take threes, like they're during his rookie year, during like the
last ten games, they were like, sure, man, go crazy,
and he didn't look he didn't look horribly uncomfortable taking them. Right, they
didn't go in all the time, but he didn't look uncomfortable doing it.
There was like a ten game stretch in before the end of the season,
but like kind of in the dog days last season where they were also like,
hey, yes, dude, like go go take some threes. Man,
go for it. And like he also again like looked semi comfortable and
competent, like doing that in college, he was really good from the mid
range. Is like an eighteen and end guy on pick and pops, and
like the footwork is largely the same, and so I was just like,
yeah, just do that. The thing I worry about is that, like
four now, all of his threes are what tylu would define his butt naked
open threes, because everybody's like sure, yeah, man, like it's like
year six eight and we don't know if you can shoot or now because you've
taken you know, fewer than one hundred NBA threes in the NBA, like
go ahead, and like take him. It's like, what will he start
doing when teams are like, oh, like we're actually going to try and
contest this three, right, Like, is he gonna be able to attack
closeouts? Like as maybe maybe I hope so, but maybe it's like if
you play him on the floor with another big like Danny LaRue always talks about
like two dribbles in a good decision, Right, It's like, is he
gonna like be able to do like the Al Horford thing where he like he
takes two dribbles and like whips into the corner, Like, uh, maybe
you're gonna be able to play like highlo with him with him and inserts other
center here. I think in time they would like it to be jayalen Dern
because like I would also like to see that pairing just to discover if it
could work or not. But like that's going to require a lot more processing
power on offense than we've ever been able to see from Isaiah Stewart. So
they'll they'll definitely try it. I don't know if it's going to work or
not, but at the absolute least, he's gonna shoot like more threes than
he's ever shot in his NBA career this season. It's like, at worst,
you know it doesn't work, and he's a perfect sixteen game backup center.
You can just like switch everything and downsize and you don't lose anything on
the glass, and he's able to like stretch people out. You can play
five out with him and like he'll he'll be effective in a way that I
think would make him valuable for a playoff setting. So it's just like,
yeah, it's like even if this doesn't work, he's still fine. So
it's like I get, you know, the experimentation during the season. It's
kind of pretty pivotal though, that he does develop a three point shot or
at least have the volume to like make teams make different decisions on defense,
because when you look at the other bigs that he's gonna be playing with in
the front court, like you're not getting that from during You're not getting that
from the well, probably not getting that from Marvin Bagley. It was more
of a floor game. But he's not spacing the floor in the conventional sense.
Oh no, oh, no, Dan, you missed you missed earlier,
Coach Casey is saying, and they're like, no, stew and Bagley,
those are going to be our stretched biggs this season. I just put
my hands in my head on that one. If this was towards the end
of Marvin Bagley's rookie season, I'd probably be buying into that stock. But
since we're, you know, another three and a half years down the line.
I mean, look, he had a good clot, very good close
to the year with Detroit, so I don't want to belittle what he did.
I really did not involve shooting threes. No, it did not,
So that is the other thing to consider. I love Stu though, just
defensively for this team, because he is like a very just like shot changer.
He's one of the guys where some of my favorite stats aside are like
when you have a player where opposing teams are taking a lot less shots at
the rim and then shooting worse on those looks when the players on the court,
he is one of those players. And then if you go back and
watch like defense or offenses, excuse me, seemed to feel him or like
second guests because he's around his activity and so I think he's super important,
But you look at the other bigs around him, it's like if he doesn't
develop into at least like someone who's shooting real volume and getting up to thirty
three percent or whatever on threes. There's a probably a lot of questions and
how they're going to build out their front court rotation. Yeah, and tactically
right like they were. They were leveraging his ability to switch a lot last
season after playing him and drop a lot his rookie season, and he proved
himself like able to defense switches like pretty well, there was a there's was
really noticeable. There's a game against Dallas where he like hung with Luca on
a couple of switches in a row, and everybody's like, oh, like
that, m that's pretty interesting. But if he's going to be like an
NBA four, is like, okay, well, is he going to be
able to impact the defensive glass from the from the what's essentially like a wing
position now? And uh like, is he going to be able to uh
like attack a close out defensively and like chop his feet and like get back
we'll we'll, we'll teams still be able to fill feel him if he's out
on the perimeter all the time playing next to another big who's presumably like parked
in the paint. So it's you know, Irvin Bagley to get out there,
and so when it's like I have this number burned in my head because
like it was so bad when Bagley and Stewart were on the floor together.
I think their defensive rating was like one eighteen, which is bad. That's
very, very bad. And we know Stewart is a good defender, so
we know who we can attribute that too. But at the same time,
as like he like he was on the floor and that happened, so it's
like he's got to take some of the blame for that. But yeah,
I hope to put stew in positions where he feels comfortable so that he can
be successful as opposed to just like trying to fit him as a square peg
in a round hole, because your only other like four option is like Boyanovitch,
right, who you just acquired. Right to your point, I looked
at this up because that was exceedingly high. But one twenty one point two
defensive rating with Beef, stew and Bagley on the floor por cleaning the glass,
so there's no garbage time in there. So one eighteen maybe by NBA
dot com. That is high. That is very high. Also probably not
that surprising when you're really big about it, don't get me started on Marvin
Bagley. I am a blank slate when it comes to Joyn Duran. So
what are your I know, like the I know the skeleton of his game,
but like, what are your early impressions of what he does for this
team and do you have any overarching concerns about how he fits in? Okay?
So, Jayalen Durn' is obviously like the other rookie. I gave the
big speech about Jade and Ivy about how he doesn't how he compliments Kade and
he doesn't amplify Kaide like no theoretical Jaden Duran. He amplifies Kade right,
Like that's a two man game that we have like classically seen have success in
the NBA level. Jade Shade, Jayalen durn In an action with Kade just
like running down the lane, threatening and tear the rim off the backboard,
Like that is the thing defenses care about in a way that like they don't
care about. For Isaiah Stewart, I love me as I'm Jalen during I'm
way more excited about Jayalen during the Jade Ivy concerns. He's eighteen and he's
got the usual concerns for an eighteen year old, you know, the little
stuff like doesn't know how to play NBA defense yet it's like doesn't do little
things like boxing out because he's so used to just using his insane athleticism against
high school kids to grab every rebound. So he's not technically proficient, right
is will is athleticism look as insane as it did in like the Atlantic Conference
next to other NBA players, Like probably not, but like he's still very
clearly an upper tier NBA athlete. And it's like he's also eighteen, so
he'll probably foul everything in sight for the first eighteen months of his career.
And it was just like okay, Like that's the usual stuff, right,
like if you have an eighteen year old big man. The other thing that
makes people fearful is that in recent memory, the Pistons have turned a very
young, very athletic, very promising big man into a really big disappointment.
And Jalen durn did come in and choose that big man's number, which made
my stomach like turn a little bit the first this time I saw that I
wanted to like throw my body in front of that one, like you you
can't give him Andrea's old number. But the thing that makes me feel a
lot better about this is that like Jalen Duran has Kay cunning him, and
Andre Drummond never had Kate cunning him, right, and so like the hierarchy
coming in is already very clearly established, like whose team it is with Andrea,
it was always a weird question because he was the most talented player,
but probably not a guy who like you should have had be your quote unquote
best player. Who do you want to see him play with most in the
front court? And also how much do you expect him to play early on
for this team. I expect him to not play at all until like December
January, even with like the Noel injury and stuff. You don't do that.
Yeah, I think I think they'll leverage some smaller lineups we're gonna talk
about like Isaiah Livers in a second. They got away with like playing Livers
at the four off in bench lineups last year. I think that I think
he won't play that much just because like again, the first time he sees
run and he has two foulsan and thirty seconds and Dwayne's just gonna be like
all right, Like I can't play this kid at all until he learns,
and he won't learn until like he practices for a good you know, six
to eight weeks at the NBA level, so I think. But as the
season goes on, right like as we get to the end of the year
where the game's only matter for draft position, like, you will absolutely see
a lot of Jalen durn And you'll see I think you'll see him in a
lot of variety of different ways. I think he'll always be like the nominal
center. But you will see him like next to Stewart, You'll see him
next to Bagley, You'll see him next to Livers at the four, You'll
see him next to like Boyan at the four or sadiqu at the four.
But at the same time, like he's he's got a ways to go,
but what he is right now is so tantalizing that you'd like have to let
him play it out, moving right along. But this became a top conversation
this podcast towards the end of last year of what was the better long term
weapon for the Pistons Killian Hayes is like in between efficiency and finishing at the
rim towards the end of last year or Sadique Bays like turnaround jumper explorations that
we're going down at one point, for Killian Hayes specifically, where are you
at with his trajectory now? Especially based off his comments at Media Day which
make it seem like he has higher aspirations than the Pistons do for him and
is his I mean I think the answers yet, but like does the arrival
of Jade and Ivy sort of complicate like where they go with Killian Hayes at
all? Yes, absolutely, I still believe in Killian as an NBA player
and as a like contributing factor to the Pistons like when they're going to be
good. But he also has to play better, right, Like he has
to play with more aggression, He has to play with more assertiveness, and
he also like has to do the thing where like the ball goes through the
rim more often like that that would probably be good. He said all the
right things in Media Day. He said the word aggression like twice in like
five minutes, which is more than than usual for him. He talked about
revamping his jumper work, working with like multiple shooting coaches and so we're we're
gonna see I am glad that Killian has higher aspirations for himself than just like
third guard sixth man, which is what you can like very easily like pencil
his role into this team with but at the same time, like he has
to prove it, like does he have the drive and ability to supplant Jade
Nivey as like the pencil n starter. Does he had invented him to coerce
Casey to play well enough? Or does he have it in him to play
well enough to coerce Casey into playing like all three of those guys at the
same time, which is something that like you you don't have to push Dwayne
Casey hard to put multiple point guards on the floor at the same time,
but like if but like Killian has to play well in order to make that
happen. It's it's really interesting to me how often everyone like on and around
the team is like, oh, yeah, Killian's clearly the best pass around
the team. Okay, like he's better than Kaide at passing. But in
today's NBA, you you shoot to set up the pass, you don't pass
the set up the shot, and Killian like doesn't shoot enough. He just
like hasn't been aggressive enough and so he hasn't his ability to play make despite
like the other nine guys on the floor, knowing that like he wants what
he wants to do is pass the ball. Is impressive if it wasn't like
already like making life so difficult for him. So he just needs to He
needs to look to score more. He needs to keep driving to the rim.
He needs to attack the rim with a little more diversity. Right,
he's got like he's got like two moves. He's got like an off foot
goofy left hand scoot finish, and he's got like a lefty like floater.
It's like he needs to be able to snake, to go back right,
to go left. He has really nice like right to left crossover if he
gets you like going right, but everyone sits on his left hand, so
you know you see fewer and fewer people fall for it. So he needs
a better like bag around the rim. I would be I'd be hopeful that
he can incorporate some speed finishes and some off hand stuff this season. I
mean, he also just needs to shoot better. If he shoots better from
the perimeter, like his defense will enable him to play as a compliment next
to Kade and like then you're fine right for what it's worth. Chart topping
podcaster and popular NBA analyst Nikaias Duncan, who I knew before he got big
shout out to Nikaias he agrees with me on Killian's potential fit next to Kade,
and he's a smart dude, So I feel like a smart dude when
I agree with him. And so does this mean I think Nikaias was on
the who definitely will not be listening to this so he won't do that guy
out. But well, are you like higher? I don't know wanted Killian
hates to start for Detroit? Is that where you are? And are you
kind of it sounds like you might be higher or less concerned about his fit
moving forward with kay than Jane and Ivy exactly right, I think I think
the fit for Killian and Kade is a lot cleaner simply because, like,
Killian does a lot of the same things that Kaye does, but it is
also like able to take on defensive matchups in a way that like, I
don't trust Jade and Ivy two right now, and like if they prove themselves
to be like roughly equivalent as shooters, which is not the case right now.
Jade and Ivy's probably a better shooter than what we've seen from killing Hay
so far, like makes him a better again like amplifier of what Kade wants
to do. But until like until we see it happen, Like we don't
know for certain. This is all theoretical, but I like, he's twenty
one. It's way too early for me to write off his ability to be
a you know, to be a starting level guard, to be a contributor
to this team, like when they want to be good. I think about
like, like you you had oh, I forget his name, but the
Orlando Sentinel guy on to talk about Kobe Price, okay to talk about the
Magic and you talked about Jalen Suggs's struggle right like he he broke his thumb,
he had like an ankle thing. He shot terribly, but everyone's still
kind of like positive about his ability to turn things around because of like what
they've seen from him. It's like you go look at Suggs's and Killian's numbers
and they're not that different. And Killian was also dealing with a strong hand
thumb injury like throughout the season, and so I was like, if you
if you think Jalen Suggs can turn it around, there's no real reason to
think Killian Hayes like can't turn it around as well. Look, and he
convinced me closing the season too, like he shot forty six plus percent on
his floaters after the All Star break. He was like on just driving sort
of layups or finishes, like his efficiency skyrocketed there. So I'm optimistic with
him as well. I am just I guess I'm surprised that you and then
also the kais like as high on his fit next decade is as you are.
But this is also like I said, I'm like you and have not
dug as deeply into it obviously, but like concerned about jay n ives Fitt
next decade, and so Killian Hayes just having more experience and sort of knowing
at least when looking at last season towards the end of it, what he
can be. I guess it does make sense, but I guess I probably
trust more Jade and I mean to knock down and this is too basic,
but a spot up three to dot the arc like behind kick dunning it more
than I wouldn't Billy and Hayes at this point. Now, that's that's totally
fair, and like I I think that's like that's probably going to be the
case right away, but that's not factoring in improvement. I still think it's
possible with Killian Hayes. Oh yeah, and he's just been a very underrated
defender like for his career so far, which as well, here's a big
part of their switching scheme. He's really willing to take on and defend larger
guys. There was there was one play where like he got called for the
foul but he like almost cleanly blocked in bead like on a switch. It
was just like that was a big time like whoa moment. And so you
you get those occasional like whoe moments from Killian. They're just interspersed in between
a lot of really ugly misses from from the mid range. I will also
say, I know if he's listed at six five, I just double checked
that as you were talking, but he plays like he might be six seven.
Like most NBA players feel like their height might be inflated. I'm like,
I'd like to get another measurement on him, feel like he might beat
six six or maybe a little bit bigger than that, just based off how
he plays defensively. Anyway, I've caught a lot of shit for everything I've
said about Marvin Bagley this offseason, which is I guess it's hypocritical because I
talked about and I did. I think I wrote about a little bit how
good he was offensively once he went to the Pistons. Then I'm like,
well, why did they give him thirty seven million guarantee with a player option.
And this is also coming from someone who has been like, we need
to look at these deals in the context of the new cap climate. I
think it's an innocuous contract. I guess I just don't see the vision for
Marvin Bagley with this team long term. Do you care to enlighten me at
all? I just like Marvin Bagley's fit and how he's going to be using
the larger context of a front court rotation. I did not see the comment
about how Marvin Bagley is going to be one of their stretch bigs. I
will say that makes me probably more alarmed than I was when we started this
podcast if that's how they play it on using him. But I'm just to
see where you land on that. I am also alarmed about what the Pistons
saw and Marvin Bagley. My my big hope is that, like, Okay,
what what you saw from Marvin Bagley's explosion offensively like after the trade was
the fact that the Pistons like literally did not have a player on the roster
who could jump in the air like Marvin Bagley could, right, Like that
that was kind of beneficial for the other guards on the roster to have a
lob threat, and so like, yes, Bagley was extremely useful. I
think he shot like sixty percent from two and his time as a Piston,
which is like again like really efficient. It was really good around the rim.
It's like when when he did the stuff he was good at, he
was great. It's just like what he's good at is not particularly valuable,
and it's also like easily replicable, right, My my big hope is that,
like Jalen Duran makes Bagley entirely duplicative in like a year and a half,
but in the way that I envisioned, like Isaiah Stewart is like a
perfect sixteen game backup center or perfect playoff backup center. I imagine Bagley's like
a really great eighty two game backup center. Just come in, get these
lobs, get these easy buckets off the bench. Give Kada lob threat,
give killing a lob threat, trail jad nivy in transition, and just like
playoff of him and like who cares about defense? Like it's just the bench
lineup for a bad team, Like who cares? But like by the time
you want to be good, by the time you want to start like making
noise in the play in or the playoffs. Bagley is expressly the type of
player who gets played off the floor very quickly in a playoff setting, And
so I was disappointed that we didn't see like a partial guarantee or a team
option like on that final year. I think like with the cap climate,
with the upcoming expected you know, cap spike, that they'll smooth out over
a couple of years. I do think that like twelve and a half million
is not going to be completely untradable, especially if he continues to just like
average fifteen points a game off the bench, like somebody will be like,
oh yeah, like we could totally use that. But at the same time,
like to just like have a guy that you know can't play when the
games are at a high level, like when when you start to play on
playoff settings. It's like that was just pretty frustrating for me. It's just
like, well, but they need the skill set until they get to that
level, So I get it. But yeah, I'm I am not super
high on what Marvin Bagley is going to bring to this team in the long
term before now. He's fine. He's fine as a floor runner next to
Ivy, and then like as someone who I think a lot of the aesthetics
of like his turnaround and his hook shot like are better than obviously the efficiency
on those. And then just as an alley finisher, like I think all
that stuff can be valuable like in those units with Ivy too, like second
unit heavy combinations. But I'm probably maybe I'm latching onto what you said about
the floor spacing too much. He shot under twenty four percent on jump shots
with Detroit last season, Like I've yet to see the evidence aside from that
very small subset of his rookie season where he shot the lights out on catching
shoot twos. By the way, it wasn't even like three pointers, it
was catching shoot twos. So I have something else to file with the Pistons
because I'm I'm just again, I think he's I'm with you, I think
he's fine. I'm just I guess I'm more curious about what this team envisions
for him because he should not have the I don't even want to say the
type of freedom, but like, I just like they shouldn't need him or
want to need him as much as they were using him towards the end of
last year. No, that's totally fair. And it was so striking too,
Like we were like watching film with him in Sacramento. Right, A
lot of the time he's just like parked in the corner, and it's just
like, okay, Like if if he gets the ball in the corner,
what is he going to do with it. It's like he's gonna dribble into
a left hand post up and try and finish from the basket, or he's
gonna take a corner three, which is like not a good shot, and
freeing him from that role and making him a more effective player, only to
a year later be like, oh, yeah, we want to play you
next to Jayalen dr and oh yeah, we want to play you next Isaiah
Stewart. Oh yeah, we want to play you next to Neurali's Noel,
so go stand in the corner again, Like that doesn't make any sense,
but it's just like that that apparently is what's gonna happen, Like yeah,
yeah, yeah, I'm going to spare the listeners the long preamble to this
question that I gave you, but I will preface by saying, Sadiq bay
is my favorite drug on the Detroit Pistons. But what is who is Sadiq
bay I just I feel also like there's and the only preamble actually gave it.
I does feel like there's a discrepancy between what he actually is and what
he's vie nationally because when people call him like this three and D guy,
I'm like, well, if you kind of like take away the defense a
little bit and then also recognize that he does way more than just shoot threes
on offense, and so yeah, he doesn't really fit that bill at all.
So who the hell is Sadiq bay? Side is like a little overstretched
currently, a little overrated. Currently he's streakier than you think, right,
Like I was looking at this and there was I think for like a six
week period at the beginning of the season, you couldn't throw the ball in
the ocean and so like this maybe isn't fair to him. But last year
he had twenty five games. That's a lot of games with one or fewer
made threes, right for for a guy who a lot of his value comes
from his ability to be a floor spacing threat. To have you know,
a quarter of the season essentially where you only made one or few or threes
a night, like that's not great. On the other hand, he had
ten games where he made five or more threes. That's a lot. That's
a lot. And that includes and that that includes the fifty one point night
where he made ten threes, right like he was just running off screens,
just like dribbling into people's faces, like busting poor Franz Walker's ass, like
the entire night. But like and and so, like you you would like
to see more consistency from deep from Sadiq before you got really into like the
nitty gritty of like what you can expect him to be as a player.
The other thing I'll say is that like he's a dog, that dude were
his butt off. He spent like the entire summer in Colorado at elevation like
working out to better prepare himself for the rigors of an NBA season. He
had one of my favorite moments of last season where he made like a huge
three to send to help send the game to overtime against Charlotte, a team
that like strangely had the Pistons number, we like hadn't beaten them in four
years and it's like the weirdest streak in team history. And he was like
shit talking one dude in the crowd specifically, it was great. I think
about that shot all the time. Yeah, He's just he would benefit from
like a slightly reduced offensive role and so, like you think the development of
Jaalen Dur and Slash Jade and n Ivey into the secondary guy behind Kig can
make that more of a reality. Like in your in your write up in
your spiel that you like didn't deliver, you put you said a possession by
a possession agency, and I really liked that, right, Like, you
know, sometimes he is to be really effective and have a lot of agency
for this team, and sometimes he's just gonna be like, hey, Sdi,
go sit in the corner and like be a huge threat for this k
pick and roll that's happening on the other side of the floor. Like that's
fine. That's fine. It's like my dream line up for the Pistons in
the future is kade Jalen durn and three clones of mkhale Bridges. I was
hoping you would say this on the podcast. I saw that and you're right
up, and that was fantastic. It was like, so you would love
Sadiq to be like a little bit better defensively like Bridges is, and a
little bit better from catch and shoot, a little bit more reliable from catch
and shoot like bridges is. But like the things he can bring that McHale
kind of doesn't that ability to self create, that ability to to get to
the paint, to get to the rim, to use his strength to like
create space to take like these these mid range jumpers that are like very Chris
Middleton esque. Like you, you also want to give him the license to
do that just because he's like maybe he can, right, And if he
can, like that's that's an amazing addition to have any work so hard that
I don't want to bet against the possibility of him doing that, right,
It's like I don't want to bet against Eak in any possible way again,
like he's just a dog, Like I hate betting against him, So to
call him like overstretched and overrated like makes me feel bad, but it is
kind of true about the perception around what he offers right now? Is there
there's like a mental tug of war here for me? Where is it?
It's probably gonna be harder for them to plumb the depths of his offense now
with Ivy and killing and Hayes and Kid cutting him. Right, But then
could there all still be a benefit to I don't want to use the word
pigeonholing, but maybe restricting parts of his offensive game and so like her is
there, like does it help or I don't want to say hurt. Does
it help or complicate his development at all? Now that you have Ivy,
Hayes and Kid cutting him on this team? I think I think it helps.
I think it's something that it's like okay, it's like he tries it
early in the game because like it doesn't work. It's like okay, we
like we can go to other stuff. He tries it early in the game,
it works, It's like okay, we can go to this, as
opposed to like last season where it's like okay, uh, it's like we
have to keep trying this because there's nobody else on the floor who can really
get their own and we want to see what we got and so yeah,
I think it helps him more than it hurts him. The other thing is
like we haven't talked about Boyon in a while, but I assume like that
will be. You're starting like three four Sadique Bay and Boyan and that's a
like really interesting crafty old man stretched the floor, herky jerky game that I
think Sadique could learn from him, And I think that's a so like that.
I also appreciate like the development potential that Sadiq like gets from being able
to watch boy On attacks the rim and like get the shots he gets in
the way that he does. Like if this were two K He's like okay,
like Boyan like mentor Sadiq like get some of his badges and like we
can we can go from there. It's at this point where you could tell
I have too many questions about the Pistons because I have to forget a way
to lump certain players together. And I'll even lump Habituti Jallo into here.
He's like someone that I just like, oh this, this guy's still on
this team. But looking at Howmnudi Allo, Alec Burks, knowledge, Noel
and Corey Joseph. Who is most important to this team this season? Who
do you expect to make the biggest impact among those those guys. I hope
it's Alec Burks as another like floor spacer, like pressure valve for the young
guards, guy who can get his own bucket. It's like, I hope
Burks plays a large role for the team. His injury are like the recovery
from his injury, like coming into training camp was a little disappointing for me.
I was expecting I was expecting him to start out of the gate,
partially because like he offers floor spacing next to Kade, and partially be because
they probably didn't want to overtax Jade, and I'd be like coming out of
the gate. But Dwyne Casey has just like this huge soft spot in his
heart for Corey Joseph, and so like, Corey Joseph's gonna play like four
hundred and fifty minutes this season. And I'm not gonna know how any of
it happened, but he was so weirdly effective for them last season. He
was at times he was the best floor spacer they could play next to Kade
that it's like you you you, It's like, it's not terrible if he's
on the floor, but like man he was, Like I wish Keilly and
Hayes was playing Instea or like man, I wish Jade and Ivy was on
the floor instead, or something like that. New Lens is New Orleans is
interesting between the foot injury and how much they love Jalen Duran. I don't
think we see much Nerlands this year unless somebody else, another big gets hurt.
I joked that, like ner Lens, main goal is to just like
be like Jalen Duran's Looper is just like dragging around be like I was like
you once. Don't be like me. It's like, do you see what
happened? It's like, don't fire your agent right before restricted free agency.
It's like, don't do that. My other question on that's rotation too,
is I campaign for Iday Livers to start before the boy on Madonna's trip,
Bogdanovit trade. Where does he fit into this? Like on nights where Casey
isn't emptying the bench, Let's say, do you expect him to play all?
I hope so, I hope so he was so good last year as
just a guy who came in and papered over the cracks as a spartan.
It pained me how useful Livers was. Like as soon as he was healthy
enough to play, he made threes. He communicated, He communicates really well
on defense, which is like a credit to the Michigan coaching staff. It
seems like all their guys like communicated really well on defense, and like you
just made some more threes after that, and it's like every team could use
a guy like Isaiah Livers, and so I do hope that they find a
way to carve out spots for him to play. Like we talked so much
about the potential of like two big lineups for this team, because like,
now that you have boyon and now that you have Livers, you can just
play those guys at the four, and like I don't have to worry about
that as much hopefully maybe. Uh. And then we've talked about so many
players on this team, and the Pistons did make a trade for Bodanovitch,
which is you wouldn't call it win now, but it was a trade for
someone who helps him immediately. Should they still be viewed as like just because
they're going to be a team that is I guess is not in a mix
If it, maybe they stumble into the mixer playing spot. But if they're
not, they have veterans in no well In Berks, in Bagdanovitch will be
sought after the deadline. Do we still view this team as like playing catering
to the big pictures such that they will still be sellers, are willing to
make moves where they're divesting talent in the middle of the season. I think
they sell, but I don't know if they're sellers selling like being sellers implies
a level of like bottoming out after the trade deadline that I think goes against
like what we talked about at the very beginning of the show, like getting
complimentary vets to help facilitate the development of the young guys. So like maybe
they sell like one of a Boyon or a Burk's or a Nerleans, but
like all three of those guys, like I would say, like two of
them probably like make it all the way through the year. It's it's really
important to have guys like Burks and Boyon like on the floor to see if
Kaden, Ivy and Killian are making the developmental strides you want to see them
make throughout the entirety of the season. If you trade away those guys,
you know, and there's not as much spacing, it's harder to tell if
they're developing the way you want them to. What does the ten man rotation
top ten man rotation look like for this team? And when I went through
it and did it, I would feel confident in naming they have X amount
of locks to be within the ten. But when I was trying to fill
out the starting lineup, I was like, I'd feel comfortable guaranteeing you that
kid Cunningham starts and then I'm done. So I think I think Kade starts.
I think you go to start the year, I think you go,
Kade Ivy beat a Sadiq Boyon Stewart right, So that one big two wings
Sadiq, Bay and Boyan and like Jade and Ivy starting the season and then
after that it's like Killian, Alec Burke's maybe Hommy maybe not Hommy Bagley and
like Livers right. I think that is like generally what your ten man rotation
is going to be. And so that's that's one big lineups, right.
That's and you notice I did not mention Jalen during at all because I don't
expect we'll see him again intil like December January. And so those those are
both one big lineups and a lot of guards on the floor at the same
time, which is what I think Dwane Casey wants to do. Uh.
But like who starts is going to change as the season goes along, simply
because like they'll want to give more leash to the young guys that prove themselves
and you'll get like, you know, maybe a boy on trade or like
maybe Alec Burkes, like you know, isn't ready to start the season and
stuff like that, and so like maybe Cojoe and there's the bench lineups in
a way that he can like help facilitate Killians development. And so like there's
no like guaranteed locked in top ten, which is probably why you had such
a hard time figuring out what the guaranteed locked in top ten was going to
be. Uh yeah, I would say, so, so you're the coach,
you're doing crunch time. This can be matchup dependent, I think,
especially for this team, But what would be your go to clutch unit.
There's four guys I feel have to be in that unit, and that's Kade,
Sadike Boyon, and Isaiah Stewart. Whichever guard you feel like has it
going that night slash, Like, whatever guard you feel like gives you the
best of what you need for that particular like game scenario. Whether that's like
Killian for defense, whether that's like Jade and Ivy for the ability to like
get to the rim and cause some havoc, whether it's Burks for like shooting's
like that's that's the like triumphant around like what you put in that Crunch Time
lineup. But like, yeah, Cade, Sadiq, Boyon, Isaiah Stewart,
Like that's your car, that's the core of your Crunch Time lineup.
What is Is there a weirdo bonk ors quirky lineup that you want Dwayne Casey
to try this season? I think like Durn Stewart is like sufficiently unconventional for
our purposes. I know you like to go small, so like I would
be curious to see like a Killian, Ivy, Kade lineup like all on
the court. At the same time, I think that like having that many
guards on the floor is definitely something Dwayne Casey would do. And then from
a perspective of like what would make Pistons fans the most angry. It'd be
like Kojoe Burke's, Rodney McGruder, boy On and Noel, just like all
the vets, the expendables, all the guys like no one paid to gum
see, like all those guys on the floor at the same time. That
would be hilarious. Dwyen case would totally do that. By the way,
mine is as you've predicted, unhinged. I want to see cade Hays,
Bay, boy On and Livers. That's how small I'm gonna want to skew
if you if you need to pull Killian for Isaiah Stewarts that you can have
like a big on the floor. Fine, I just want to see them.
Those are the lineups. I mean, you know at this point haven't
come out so off like, those are the lineups I skew towards. And
so I will root for Dwayne Casey and win another Coach of the Year award
if he rolls out that lineup at any point, the Sadiq Bads Center lineup,
I gotta say I didn't see that coming. I'm just getting smaller and
smaller as as time marches on. Uh, their current wind total at this
point is set at twenty nine point five. Would you hit the over or
the under on that? And where do you see them sort of winding up
in the larger context of the East. Vegas is so good at this because,
like I've been telling people, twenty nine wins and so to have it
like right at twenty nine and a half is just like, oh, so
I would I would go under. I think the under is safer. That
accounts for injuries, that accounts for you know, uneven development, that accounts
for you know, just weird stuff that happens across the course of a regular
season. And you know, the the East is really loaded. The East
is weirdly loaded. Like to make the play in. It's like there's a
lot of optimism around in the fan base around like the ability to make the
play in, but like, in order to do that, you'd have to
be better than like all ten teams that made it last year New York,
who is like who just had a Jalen Brunson, who's like, you know,
got the Donovan Mitchell package. If not Donovan Mitchell, to get the
next like disgruntled superstar, you gotta be better than Washington who's like Kris Stops
apparently like you've looked really good in EuroBasket. Bradley Bill is still there and
like very competent. They're and you gotta better than Charlotte, who I expect
to win fewer games. But Steve Clifford is like a coach that will not
let them lose a bunch of games they're supposed to lose. And then on
top of that, like from below, you have Orlando who is frightening and
their core is just as good as yours is. They got they have Paolo,
they have suddenly legitimately frightening Franz Wagner, and you know they have they
have Jalen Suggs, they have Cole Anthony. It's like the only team I
can guarantee you the Pistons are going to be better than than the East is
Indiana. And that's only because Indiana decided, like literally came out and said,
like Jalen Smith has a starting job for us, which is the functional
equivalent of like a seven foot like white flag in the air on the season,
right like you if they don't trade Miles Turner, by the way,
we riot that he needs to. He has like been I guess him,
and I don't know who be like the players that have been talked about being
traded without actually being traded, I'm trying to just remember, like what player
has gone longer? It's year eight for Miles Turner and nine somehow the trade
rumors explain that, I know, right, So it's like the Pistons could
win twenty nine games and be like in the exact same place in the standings
functionally like it it would it would be weird. The NBA needs to expand
there's too much talent. Yeah, expansion. There's the biggest support for it
is the East this year, and you outlined it perfectly. I would say
I won't even guarantee they'd be better than the Pacers, just because I love
Tyrese Haliburton. And there's probably a world in which the Pacers just don't trade
Miles Turner, and if they play him, they might be they might stumble
into more wins than we think. But yeah, I probably go, you're
the first. This is the I think this is number eight or number nine
or our team. Look aheads, you're the first person to hit the under
on the team that I brought them on for. But to be fair,
this is only the second team that I've also hit the under four, So
I'm way too I'm gonna have to read my I'm way too optimistic on everywhere
I have. I have training camp brain first, they have training camp brain
right now. I'm with you though on the Under and the East is just
it's fascinating, like because it's so deep and I'm I'm curious to see,
like can the Pistons sort of shot us? But as I said before,
you outlined it perfectly with the teams that they need to be better than even
the ones that you don't trust, which the Knicks, the Hornets, the
Wizards, and yes, the Nets, who are They're doomed. The Nets
are doomed. I want to make that clear. But those are still teams
where it's like, can you be better than like three of them? I
don't. I'd probably bet against No. Is there anything I did not ask
you about with the Pistons that you think isn't talked about enough or needs to
be discussed before I let you go. We didn't mention Hommy at all,
and like Hommy was weirdly chaotically important for this team for stretches last season,
and like I didn't fit him into the rotation. Like, I don't know
why he plays, but I also know why he couldn't play, aside from
the fact he's like never shot the ball well, and it's like that's kind
of a problem. But like the absolute like last thing I want to say
is like Kade's the guy. Like Kate is really effing good. Kate is
like so good. I only like sometimes think about what this team would look
like like future ten time All Defensive Team member evermobli Right, Kate's so good.
I'm mad we're not on national TV, even though we would more than
likely embarrass ourselves on front of Doris Burke and everybody. Kate is so good.
I don't care his post rookie extension is gonna be two hundred million dollars.
I don't care. Everything for this team has to be around Kaide for
the next like half decade. I would hate to do it, but like,
if you get to the middle of his post rookie extension and you're not
where you need to be, you got to blow it up again and like
figure it out, because he's the only way you're making it to a conference
finals slash championship level. Like in Detroit for the next like I don't know
how long. So like Kaid's the guy, everything has to flow through Kaide.
Everything has to be about like what makes Caide better? Everything has to
be about like how can we help Kaide be the best player he can be?
How do we get Kaide to be this like top eight tops of an
NBA player that you're going to need if you want to compete for championships.
Kaid's the truth. Kaid's the fucking truth. I would the fucking truth is
the perfect way to put it. And I would as someone who is like
ten million of fet away from the Pistons. Kay Cunningham is so good that
as good as Evan Mobley and Scotty Barnes were last season, there's no question
in my mind that Kate Cunningham is gonna end up being the best player of
those three. That's just how good Kay Cunningham is. I just his control
over the game even when things aren't necessarily working. That is, you can't
dream that shit up in a lab sometimes. And so I'm with you on
everything you said, like this is no, I don't think they need to
go out and trade for a star right now, because Kate Cunningham is so
good, but I think everything needs to revolve around him, even if you're
not going the full Luka, don Chich Prime, James Harden, Trey Young
before Dejan Day route of so Heliocentric is the term is. But everything that
you do needs to be in the image of how do we optimize Kate Cunningham
because he is that much of the fucking truth. As you said, Absolutely,
Las, this was great as always. Thank you, like usual for
giving me so much of your time in case anyone skipped the introduction in the
seventy plus minute podcast. Are you able to tell our listeners where they can
find you and all the fantastic work that you do. No, Absolutely,
thank you again for having me Dan. I love talking to you. I
love that you ask such fun questions about my team coming into the season.
If you want to follow me, you can follow me on Twitter at last
Chance that's at l A z H A n CE. You can also download
the Detroit Badboys podcast. Wherever you're listening to this podcast on you can probably
find it there as well, and you should go to Detroit Badboys dot com,
which is the best place on the internet for Pistons news and analysis this
season and every season echo everything he said there. Detroit Badboys is great.
Anytime I need to like something happens with the Pistons and I want to get
like the in depth perspective, that's the place that I go. And the
podcast when Lads is hosting it just amazing as well. Also, if he's
ever solo, one of the best solo probably viv I'm gonna say it,
probably the single best solo podcaster I've ever listened to. And I guess there
aren't a ton of solo podcasters, but you do. You did a great
job when you were running solo for so long. So thank you again for
coming on and as you know by now, I'll be festing you again in
the future. And also for an emergency podcast when the Jay and Ivy for
r J Barrett Spop goes down later this year. We're looking forward to it.
Dan looking forward to it.