WEBVTT

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You. Chilly Effect is sponsored by
Wallstreet Window dot com and listeners like you

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Now and Now in our media Jack. Hopefully the introduction to the show was

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not overdriven and too loud, but
if it is, that's the way it

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will be retained in the podcast.
Anyway, Welcome to Wednesday. Woldnesday the

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middle of the week, and it
is allegedly the twentieth day of December twenty

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twenty three, according to that thing
we call a calendar. Welcome to the

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show where your host has a brand
new hole in his mouth where a tooth

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used to be, and still going
live despite the fact that I'm jammed up

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and had to test sound right before
I went to air. Anyway, enough

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of all that, and enough of
the Christmas chair that I really should have

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I think I don't know which.
By the way, anybody who wants to

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assist with that, there is the
donate BUTTONTTOCHELLI. I'm not gonna sit here

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and harp on it. But we
are also going to start in January sending

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out the archive emails. So if
you want to get in on that list,

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you can sign up as a supporter
at Ocelli dot com and for ten

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dollars a month, you get all
the stuff that the members used to get

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and all that good stuff. And
gee, I might even still have a

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promotional code out there, and I'll
get it before the end of the show

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and give it to you right at
the end, because I got to get

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to my guest who's here on an
unusual day, because on last Thursday I

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tried getting a hold of Larry Hancock
as I usually do by a Skype,

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and he couldn't hear me. Everything
else was working fine, but he couldn't

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hear me. And it turns out
it was just you know, Skype,

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and it's quirky, wonderful ways of
changing settings, is all it was.

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But it took us a little while
to sort it out, and by the

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time we did, I didn't want
to keep Larry waiting because we had already

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used the hour we were going to
speak to Well, you know, examine

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what the problem was with the skype
true story, right, Larry? Oh,

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yes, it another true story.
Although thinking back on it would have

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been kind of interesting to try to
do the show with you just typing in

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questions and he respond respondings that you
could hear me. But that might not

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have been as much fun. Well, it could have been fun if I

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put it on video though, and
like literally had your video reactions. Well,

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yeah, right, and so like
one minute you see the text and

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the next minute we see your video
reaction. You read it and then try

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and figure out what I was saying, because guarantee there'd be typos in it,

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and yeah, that would have been
fun as long as you promised not

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to forward a copy to Well,
anyway, won't go up into software updates.

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So are that subject? Well,
we could always just put it up

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on you know, the members section
or something or other, because I do

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have a Patreon where it could be
behind a paywall. So only if you're

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really a supporter of the show,
or I could put it in the member

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section at the website, would you
be able to get a hold of that,

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And that way, you know,
it wouldn't be the silly thing all

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around the world, right, it
would just be for our friends. So

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well, we know what to do
if it happens again. Hopefully it won't.

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There you go, but let's get
to it, Larry, I have

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not spoken to you in public anyway
since the Lancer conference and you were there.

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I was there. It was an
interesting time. I talked a little

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bit about the chaos of it that
I experienced that apparently other people didn't get

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to see because while I was working
and doing the best I could do more

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than just introduce people, because that's
what I actually thought I was gonna do

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when I said, yeah, i'll
MC. But you see, everybody forgets

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what that means the master of ceremonies. I mean, how are you going

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to master something if all you do
is introductions, right, because then you're

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just what what was that guy that
used to do Don Pardo or whatever on

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TV? Right? He was like
the announcer guy for like the whole network,

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So that's all he did pretty much
is tell you what was on next

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and do live announcements like that.
Now coming up on the stage, I'm

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Don Pardo, right, You remember
that. I could relate to that because

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of course I am seed several conferences
and was timekeeper, and amongst all that

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was trying to locate speakers when they
didn't show up on So I understand that

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full role. And you could at
the end of the conference you could ask

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me, well, what happened did
you learn? What'd you hear? And

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it's kind of like huh what?
Uh? Sorry, I missed the head.

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Yeah, in all honesty, I
didn't watch too many presentations because I'm

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carrying around tables, running around looking
for thumb drives, trying to figure out

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who goes next, canceling somebody else, putting somebody else in another slot,

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making sure we're on time. Oh
and by the way, trying to figure

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out why people in the back of
the room can't hear it. Uh,

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you know, stuff like that.
But I look, and I don't want

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anybody to think that it was a
total disaster, because apparently it wasn't.

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And frankly, I've watched a couple
of the presentations and they went off pretty

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smoothly. Indeed, we even had
an impromptu, you know, roundtable discussion

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of sorts, but it wasn't all
that round the table because Gayle Nick Jackson

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wound up featuring in the midst of
a panel discussion and that was not on

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the agenda, that was not in
the program. That was kind of a

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well, an impromptu edition, and
you were part of it as well,

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David Boylin. Let's see, before
I forget anybody, Doug Campbell and I

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gave up my spot so that there
was enough microphones because I was going to

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be on that panel, but it
wound up being the Gail Knick Jackson Show

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for a minute, and it was
a pretty good one that I got to

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see a bunch of or hear a
bunch of. Anyway, what were your

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thoughts on that, by the way, Well, I think it was great.

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It was great to be there with
Gayo, and I think it's it

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brings up an interesting observation to me
in that, you know, it shows

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how valuable in person conf its attendance
can be because I ended up having lengthy

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discussions with Gail, who I'd known
before. But again, you get a

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chance to be really much more focused
to the conference when you can step away

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and get into a good discussion.
And so I have really gone back and

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am working then the whole Walker issue
again, combining Gail's remark and Gail's book

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along with some work that Gregg Doubt
had done. So I'm I'm kind of

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off on attangent again after the conference
working on that. I think I've fallen

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into like three different follow up dialogues
with people that I really had not anticipated

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doing before we got together in Dallas
and kind of spurred each other's interests.

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So yeah, I really enjoyed interacting
with everybody. It just it brought back

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to me how much that person contact
can trigger further research. You know,

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you're not you don't just have to
listen to presentations. It really gives you

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an opportunity to get in there and
engage. Right. And another nice thing

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is this is going to give you
some additional well, some additional insights,

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some additional leads, some additional possibilities
regarding one of the things that you also

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gave a presentation on at the conference, which which is Oswald and his entanglements.

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Right, Reframing Oswald is what I
keep saying. But you're working on

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a monograph, and I do have
a couple of listeners who are very interested

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and want to know, you know, what the progress is on that,

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and are actually waiting to see what
you have to say regarding a re evaluation

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of who the alleged accused assassin.
Right. I put both words in front

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of it, because why not.
But but here we are a lot of

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reframing needs to be done because,
as we discussed at length on another show,

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previous observations might be quite outdated,
even your own, with all humility,

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you said, so you know,
here we go you're working on that,

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what's the progress and did the U
did the conference itself have an influence

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over maybe some of the directions you
were looking into, or some of the

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material that you thought was more or
less important before or after? What do

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you have to say about that?
Yeah, I think the conference, you

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know, I had already kind of
kicked myself into into if you want to

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call or reframe or revisit a Basically, what's become clear to me is that

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we've been trapped. Right, Certainly, I've been trapped. I won't say

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everybody's been entrapped, but I've been
trapped in a lot of what I've written

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about Oswald because I was functioning honestly, totally within the JFK research community,

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rather than looking at it for my
true historical analysis the way I'm supposed to

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be trained to do. And I
accepted too many things. I made too

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many inferences based on things that I'd
read in tertiary literature. I like MJFK

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books. Well, if those guys, I brought along too much baggage,

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And as I went on along writing
more books, I didn't necessarily get rid

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of that baggage. And at this
point in time, That's what I'm kind

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of busy doing is stepping back to
look at Oswald. I mean check,

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you know, we've got three views
of Oswald. We've got the popular public

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view of Oswell, which actually formed
over started within you know, twenty four

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hours. Over the first several months. I mean, the public was given

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a view of Oswald by what was
being leaked from the FBI report, which

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was done in two weeks, agonized
enough, leaked by you know people,

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And it's amazing what leaked out of
the Dallas Police Department, out of the

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DA's office, all of which went
directly to the press, none of which

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should have happened, none of which
should have happened if Oswad was alive and

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had been prosecuted in a normal legal
fashion. Instead, he was literally tried

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in the court of opinion. Well
he was convicted in two weeks by the

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FBI, but he was tried in
the court of opinion, you know,

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within weeks and months before the Warren
Commission ever offered an official view. So

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we've got to face the fact that
those views were out there. And then

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the research community, the skeptics,
first generation skeptics, responded to to clearly

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what were problems with the Warren Commission
report. Not so much with what they've

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put in the appendices, because there's
some really good stuff in the volumes,

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but in their report. And I
will say I want to hand off some

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kudos. I have been rereading some
work done by Pat Spear, who has

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collected a lot of the internal Warren
Commission dialogue, stuff that we didn't see

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for three or four decades, right, stuff that's been released then that really

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shows how much internal criticism there was, where somebody like Leebler was not even

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satisfied with what they were putting in
the report because he didn't think they could

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support it, and people responding it's
kind of like, well, it's all

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right, we don't want to say
too much because we don't want to leave

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any doors open. And just rereading
that impressed so much onto me that you

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know, yeah, we've got a
good reason to be skeptical of what's in

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the report, and that's encouraged.
That's encouraged me to kind of answer your

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coil question, to step back like
historians are supposed to do, and take

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a look at primary sources and qualify
secondary sources, and not just repeat what's

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out there, but to go back
and really treat it methodically. So if

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you ask me what I'm doing,
I've stepped back into the monograph that I

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had about eighty percent done, and
I'm going to restructure it. And it

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looks like it's going to be about
double in size to do a really concrete

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job with it. So that's where
that's going. And yes, I'm making

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more work for myself. Yeah,
well, you kind of wind up having

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to because again people were relying and
this is why some of your remarks I

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think it was maybe it was the
banquet remarks, I'm not sure, but

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some of your remarks during the conference
where you said, you know, look,

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no offense to all the authors the
room, and there were many,

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but you know, when you're going
to discover something new, something of significance,

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and you're going to be able to
add to these discussions and move the

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conversation and the knowledge base, you
know forward. Quite frankly, you're not

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going to find it in anybody's book. It's just that simple. You're going

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to have to do the actual work. Get with the people, get with

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the primary sources, go back to, you know, some of the earlier

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stuff, and also look at what
has been newly released. What has changed

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since that time period. Pat Spier, course is the wonderful guy who created

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The Mysterious Death of Number thirty five
right, which was a really great series

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on the Internet and at one point
was released as a DVD. I highly

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recommend it, even though it's got
a completely different focus than what we're talking

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about right here. It's more about
medical evidence and has a shocking interesting piece

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about you know, what we've all
referred to as the mystery photograph and all

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that. But Pat spears very quietly, actually done an incredible amount of work

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on a diverse area, a diverse
many areas, excuse me, within the

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JFK evidence universe, one way or
another, and that includes documentation, but

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nobody ever points to it. I
actually want to get Pat on the show

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soon. I don't think anybody's really
been talking to him lately, and I'm

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certain, given some of the things
that he said privately, that his work

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has continued much like many other people's. You know, just because a book

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is not being published doesn't mean people
have stopped working too. Let's remember that,

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you know. Yeah, he covers
a broad gamut of different areas,

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and one of the things again,
because if I'm going to do an appropriate

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job of this. I've got to
go back and visit these three you know,

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the different views of oswel how they
were formed, so everybody understands the

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weaknesses and issues with each of the
views, like including my earlier views.

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But one of the things he cites
is some an internal document within the Warrant

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Commission that says basically, basically it's
saying that they're concerned about actually handing over

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the evidence to NARA so that people
can see it. And it's like,

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we have got to negotiate with the
archivists at NARA to delay turning over the

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evidence that we've looked at as long
as possible. And you're going why,

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and essentially their reason was they they're
very concerned about providing ammunition for the first

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generation critics right now, which was
does not speak to one thinking that you

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have a really strong case. Can
you can Can you imagine an attorney going

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into court saying, well, we've
got to make sure nobody sees the prosecution's

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evidence because you know, we're going
to win this case without it. That's

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00:16:14.679 --> 00:16:18.919
that's strange. Well, tactically it's
weird because it's almost a reversal philosophically of

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what you would expect from a defense
attorney. A defense attorney might look to

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serve their client by trying to get
evidence excluded, delayed, let me object

206
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to it being entered in the first
place. This and that. Generally speaking,

207
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the prosecution, for the most part, if they developed the evidence,

208
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wants it all in. If they
developed it, you know, I mean,

209
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unless they found something that's really truly
exculpatory, they generally will want it

210
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all in. So that usually speaks
to look if the prosecution in this case,

211
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the government effectively serving as prosecution despite
the fact that there was no prosecution

212
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or truly adversarial procedure officially done,
you would expect that the prosecution, if

213
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they had such a super solid case, would be looking to include as much

214
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evidence in the in the public court
of opinion, you know, they would

215
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seek to let's release this stuff so
the public sees this to undermine in a

216
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legitimate way the backlash we're getting because
of these Warrant Commission critics. But that's

217
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not what we see. That's not
what we observe, is it. No,

218
00:17:29.920 --> 00:17:33.839
it's exactly the opposite of what you
think it should. In fact,

219
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I think I've only seen this in
one other place from a prosecution, and

220
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that is in the Robert Kennedy trial, where the prosecution asked the defense simply

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to admit all of the evidence without
challenge, which defense did, which is

222
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amazing. You know that that's insane, Okay, and then they very quickly

223
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moved to destroy a good bit of
it or completely hide most of it in

224
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the California I Archives to make it
extremely difficult to get to. This is

225
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Yeah, this brings up some very
fundamental questions about the prosecution and and it's

226
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the sort of thing you did mention. You know, what do we see

227
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now that we didn't see before?
We saw none of this information about the

228
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internal concerns within the commission itself for
decades. This is brand new. Well,

229
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with the exception of what was it
Weisberg and Rohan, I think with

230
00:18:37.000 --> 00:18:41.400
their Boyer request, right, that's
the only getting some of the executive sessions

231
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in the public sphere to be observed. With that exception, I would say,

232
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you got nothing about what was actually
internally happening outside of the you know,

233
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the pr face if you will,
of the Warrant Commission, like when

234
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they made that trip to Texas.
It was public. You know, you

235
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had you had the news there,
you had other people recording it. That's

236
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why we have the pictures of you
know, Arlin Arlen Specker and indeed,

237
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oh god, who else are we
thinking of? Like it's kind of striking

238
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to see Alan Dulles outside of the
school book depository right looking up at the

239
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window. Have you seen these clips? Right? Yep. So I'm also

240
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fascinated by the press releases and in
fact, the wire releases that come out

241
00:19:27.319 --> 00:19:33.440
at different time periods. I'm actually
actively looking at those and collecting some of

242
00:19:33.440 --> 00:19:38.359
them, even myself currently, because
it's remarkable to see what it is they

243
00:19:38.359 --> 00:19:42.440
were doing in sixty four regarding these
you know, these photographs. Yes,

244
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indeed, we know about the photographs
that were released, but if you take

245
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a look at the text and the
intent and the things they're trying to demonstrate,

246
00:19:51.319 --> 00:19:56.240
even with the selection of what the
Associated Press and the UPI is sending

247
00:19:56.279 --> 00:20:02.480
to everybody, you know, newspapers, TV, it's it's really fascinating to

248
00:20:02.480 --> 00:20:07.079
take a look at what's happening in
sixty four and then how they are reacting

249
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to public criticism. By the time
you get to seventy three, because it's

250
00:20:11.799 --> 00:20:15.160
around the tenth anniversary. See,
this is why these anniversaries are so significant

251
00:20:17.839 --> 00:20:23.839
from the standpoint of studying the media's
coverage, Okay, because you can literally

252
00:20:23.960 --> 00:20:30.279
see the reaction and the actions that
are taken by the media and put them

253
00:20:30.279 --> 00:20:36.160
in the context of what is going
on in the public sphere. In seventy

254
00:20:36.160 --> 00:20:40.279
three, it's now been ten years
since Kennedy was assassinated. So because of

255
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that, there's a resurgence of interest, right, and they're literally re releasing

256
00:20:45.319 --> 00:20:48.759
stuff and showing you new things.
And you know, I mean there's different

257
00:20:48.759 --> 00:20:52.960
time periods before that, like say
during the Ruby trial, you know,

258
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sixty eight and there Garrison. Obviously, this creates different reactions from the press

259
00:21:00.039 --> 00:21:07.119
time there is something going on significant
tied to the investigation and anniversary, some

260
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actions that are the results of the
assassination one way or another, you know,

261
00:21:11.640 --> 00:21:15.200
the things that stemmed from it.
Like I said, Ruby's trial,

262
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all this kind of stuff. Every
time something happens, you can literally if

263
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you had, you know, access
to the entire archive of the world,

264
00:21:25.519 --> 00:21:29.319
you can track these things and take
a look at these different actions that are

265
00:21:29.319 --> 00:21:34.039
taken collectively by the well by the
corporate media. The for profit media,

266
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the news media, and historians will
have to recognize this. It's not historians

267
00:21:41.559 --> 00:21:45.160
doing it, but they will have
to recognize it and how these things changed

268
00:21:45.599 --> 00:21:51.000
and literally come back around to influence
things like the investigations that were then called

269
00:21:51.039 --> 00:21:53.079
for, you know, the fact
that we have, I mean, everybody

270
00:21:53.079 --> 00:22:00.920
points to Oliver Stone and how you
know, he definitely pushed the already in

271
00:22:00.079 --> 00:22:06.440
motion movement of release the documents over
the cliff so that they had to react

272
00:22:06.519 --> 00:22:10.039
after that. One slide shows up
at the end of the movie, right,

273
00:22:10.880 --> 00:22:14.559
But there was a whole release the
files movement before that that was already

274
00:22:14.599 --> 00:22:19.519
putting pressure on Congress to do something
stuff like this. But there's a lot

275
00:22:19.519 --> 00:22:26.200
of other points way before that and
indeed after that, where we can intellectually

276
00:22:26.440 --> 00:22:30.759
wrap our minds around, Look,
this is what was happening. We can

277
00:22:30.799 --> 00:22:34.200
see what was memorialized, what the
efforts were, who's actually you know,

278
00:22:34.279 --> 00:22:38.400
doing what We can almost start to, you know, outline everybody's motives and

279
00:22:38.440 --> 00:22:41.880
their motions and put them in place. Now, that to me is a

280
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fascinating study in and of itself and
might be one of the things that I

281
00:22:47.680 --> 00:22:52.000
delve into and do presentations on in
the future, because I don't see anybody

282
00:22:52.119 --> 00:22:56.440
adequately tackling it thus far. Maybe
I'm wrong about that. I mean,

283
00:22:56.480 --> 00:22:59.799
I love pictures of the pain and
a lot of these other things that try

284
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to give you a good sort of
reference for what's happening regarding something as as

285
00:23:07.880 --> 00:23:11.000
NAR always say, the photographic evidence
or whatever. But I think the media's

286
00:23:11.000 --> 00:23:18.039
reaction that everybody talks about, but
nobody has ever truly examined the entire spectrum

287
00:23:18.119 --> 00:23:25.480
of and the history of it,
like the historiography of it all at once.

288
00:23:26.240 --> 00:23:33.839
I don't think that's ever been kind
of summarized or given an It hasn't

289
00:23:33.920 --> 00:23:37.759
mentioned because I've been looking at that
because obviously one of the questions I have

290
00:23:37.880 --> 00:23:42.279
to deal with is how did this
How did this popular view of os WILL

291
00:23:42.359 --> 00:23:48.119
emerge? What were the mechanics?
You know, before there was there was

292
00:23:48.200 --> 00:23:52.559
no criminal report, there was no
you know, how did that happen when

293
00:23:52.599 --> 00:23:56.640
it's really supposed to happen. I
mean, you're you're really not supposed to

294
00:23:56.680 --> 00:24:00.839
find out all that information and advance? How did all all that stuff get

295
00:24:00.920 --> 00:24:04.599
leaked? Who was really complicit was
it? We've always assumed that it for

296
00:24:04.720 --> 00:24:08.319
some out was the FBI. Actually
it looks much more like most of it

297
00:24:08.400 --> 00:24:14.440
came through the DA's office in Dallas
and the Dallas Police office, who just

298
00:24:15.039 --> 00:24:21.759
totally had no security on anything.
Just like, Okay, let's make copies

299
00:24:21.799 --> 00:24:23.839
for your cousin. Let's uh,
oh yeah, I was there. Let's

300
00:24:23.920 --> 00:24:27.440
let's copy this photo. Here's twenty
of them, circulate them through the department.

301
00:24:29.079 --> 00:24:33.440
You know. Uh, somebody,
somebody's on record is saying he if

302
00:24:33.440 --> 00:24:36.400
you had five bucks, you could
get anything you wanted out of the DA's

303
00:24:36.440 --> 00:24:40.720
office, right, you know.
So, But I think another thing,

304
00:24:41.599 --> 00:24:45.960
just to quickly come in on what's
happening with the Oswald study, is we

305
00:24:47.079 --> 00:24:51.640
now have enough data that I don't
think people have revisited. People have painted

306
00:24:52.279 --> 00:24:56.519
very broad brush about about sources,
and I think we can do better than

307
00:24:56.599 --> 00:25:00.319
that. And even even the Warrant
Commission I was looking some stuff that and

308
00:25:00.720 --> 00:25:06.160
even they're going, for example,
talking about something about Oswald sighting in the

309
00:25:06.240 --> 00:25:11.319
rifle, and they're they're going back
and looking at uh, Marina's testimony and

310
00:25:11.359 --> 00:25:15.920
it's like, well, no,
she she really didn't say what she said

311
00:25:17.319 --> 00:25:21.720
was uh. And they're not talking
about their own her interviews with the Warren

312
00:25:21.759 --> 00:25:25.400
Commission. They're talking about her early
interviews with the Secret Service or the FB

313
00:25:25.559 --> 00:25:30.799
or whatever. And this is a
Warren Commission lawyers saying, well, no,

314
00:25:30.920 --> 00:25:33.880
we've got to watch it because all
she said in the beginning was he

315
00:25:33.920 --> 00:25:40.559
took he took his rifle and he
went outside. Okay, And we've looked

316
00:25:40.559 --> 00:25:42.599
at, you know, the attorney's
sayings, We've looked at what happened during

317
00:25:42.920 --> 00:25:48.920
the rest of the her testimony.
It's like they managed her testimony. They

318
00:25:48.039 --> 00:25:53.000
led her into saying what they wanted
her to say. And this is a

319
00:25:53.039 --> 00:26:00.200
Warren Commission attorney talking about the FBI
and the Secret Service, you know,

320
00:26:00.680 --> 00:26:03.119
trying to get her to say,
oh, he took the rifle outside and

321
00:26:03.640 --> 00:26:07.160
somehow sighted it in at night,
which is really tricky to do, by

322
00:26:07.160 --> 00:26:14.000
the way. You know, so
even even the Commission, you've got to

323
00:26:14.039 --> 00:26:18.960
identify where this stuff happens, to
know who you can trust about what,

324
00:26:18.359 --> 00:26:25.519
And nobody's ever really done. I
think the JF community me included it again,

325
00:26:25.680 --> 00:26:27.400
is painted with such a broad brush. It's kind of like, well,

326
00:26:27.400 --> 00:26:34.039
we can't trust anything. We can't
trust Yet Sylvia or Meyer found extremely

327
00:26:34.119 --> 00:26:40.720
good stuff within two years within the
volumes of the Warrant Commission. There is

328
00:26:40.799 --> 00:26:44.880
good stuff in there. So it's
not that you can't trust anything. You

329
00:26:45.039 --> 00:26:48.240
just have to test everything, right, I mean, accessories after the fact

330
00:26:48.359 --> 00:26:53.279
is still a useful guide, you
know at this point in time, because

331
00:26:53.920 --> 00:26:57.319
people, you know, they did
pick up on certain things and the obvious

332
00:26:57.440 --> 00:27:00.960
is easy. You know, Like
you just said, there's managed testimony.

333
00:27:02.000 --> 00:27:03.799
Okay, how do I prove that? Well? I mean it's right there

334
00:27:04.039 --> 00:27:07.920
in their volumes. Actually, because
okay, we already talked about this off

335
00:27:07.920 --> 00:27:11.079
the record. Now you've prepared to
offer anything else that we haven't already discussed,

336
00:27:11.319 --> 00:27:17.640
like if you break down, if
somebody can get through that word salad

337
00:27:17.680 --> 00:27:21.480
for a minute, okay, and
imagine it in real life. First of

338
00:27:21.559 --> 00:27:25.359
all, a lot of people are
not even sophisticated enough to handle the now

339
00:27:25.400 --> 00:27:27.279
if we discussed this before, and
we're not going to discuss it any further

340
00:27:27.359 --> 00:27:30.880
on by the time they're done with
that, right, I mean, you've

341
00:27:30.880 --> 00:27:36.039
looked at this questioning before. It's
like, does the witness even know what

342
00:27:36.079 --> 00:27:38.599
they were just asked? I wonder
sometimes you know, or are they just

343
00:27:38.640 --> 00:27:41.839
going to give a yes or a
no to get the hell out of this

344
00:27:42.039 --> 00:27:48.799
because it's this weird management and that's
what we see on the record. That

345
00:27:48.880 --> 00:27:52.039
doesn't tell us about all what went
on off the record, you know,

346
00:27:52.839 --> 00:27:55.880
like when somebody gets taken out into
a hallway and yelled at and stuff like

347
00:27:55.920 --> 00:28:00.960
that, there's no stenographer for it. Okay, so you know we've got

348
00:28:00.359 --> 00:28:04.599
a variety of things. But is
that enough to say that the well,

349
00:28:04.640 --> 00:28:08.279
well, the testimony is not reliable
because of that. No, because a

350
00:28:08.319 --> 00:28:11.799
whole lot of other things get revealed. Now, I would argue that a

351
00:28:11.799 --> 00:28:17.799
guy, like when you're looking at
Givens being interviewed right, who was a

352
00:28:17.839 --> 00:28:22.720
worker for those not necessarily as obsessive, was one of the workers at the

353
00:28:22.720 --> 00:28:26.440
school book depository. Was an African
American guy who had a criminal record,

354
00:28:27.039 --> 00:28:32.559
who, in my opinion, was
being leaned on to give testimony a certain

355
00:28:32.640 --> 00:28:37.680
way, and it was all about
timing and trying to place Oswald somewhere so

356
00:28:37.720 --> 00:28:40.599
that he could be eligible to be
in the right place at the right time.

357
00:28:41.599 --> 00:28:44.400
And this guy merely tries to offer, well, look, I went

358
00:28:44.400 --> 00:28:48.400
outside to get cigarettes or something out
of my jacket, and it turns into

359
00:28:48.400 --> 00:28:52.599
this whole fiasco that at the end
of it you might have to disregard his

360
00:28:52.680 --> 00:28:57.680
testimony because he's a influenced b being
leaned on and then on the record even

361
00:28:59.319 --> 00:29:03.200
I would say, almost intentionally being
confused. Now, is that the case

362
00:29:03.240 --> 00:29:08.240
for everybody, No, every single
one of these witnesses needs to be re

363
00:29:08.319 --> 00:29:11.200
examined to take a look at the
validity of what it was they were saying,

364
00:29:11.720 --> 00:29:15.599
and that includes Marina, who you
know, again, some people say,

365
00:29:15.640 --> 00:29:19.680
well, look at certain points we
know she lied. It doesn't mean

366
00:29:19.720 --> 00:29:23.440
that she lied all the time,
and it doesn't mean that we can't gather

367
00:29:23.640 --> 00:29:30.359
a lot of useful information, especially
if you can corroborate it elsewhere it's helpful.

368
00:29:30.680 --> 00:29:34.119
But when she says certain things like
sighting in that rifle, that's hilarious

369
00:29:34.720 --> 00:29:37.720
because how do you cite you know, this is why I and Griggs was

370
00:29:37.759 --> 00:29:42.839
so important. How do you actually
do this? And let's face it,

371
00:29:42.880 --> 00:29:47.079
Marina would not have brought that up
her own. Marina hardly knew what a

372
00:29:47.160 --> 00:29:49.839
rifle was. You know, Marina
is not going to say, oh,

373
00:29:49.839 --> 00:29:52.799
we went outside to side in his
rifle. She doesn't know what to sight

374
00:29:52.920 --> 00:29:59.599
is. You know, somebody let
her there, you know, And yeah,

375
00:30:00.119 --> 00:30:03.319
in was reality checks for all of
this but you know, the thing

376
00:30:03.359 --> 00:30:07.359
that strikes me, and that's why
I made the reference to history, chuck,

377
00:30:07.880 --> 00:30:15.319
to a large extent, we haven't
necessarily approached sources the way historians approach

378
00:30:15.359 --> 00:30:18.720
to hell. Historians deal with these
kind of problems all the time, you

379
00:30:18.759 --> 00:30:22.759
know, usually many years after the
fact, right, but they still have

380
00:30:23.400 --> 00:30:27.720
multiple sources and who said what about
who? And we've got to reconcile them.

381
00:30:27.759 --> 00:30:32.960
And there are practices, right,
yes, there are practices that you

382
00:30:33.000 --> 00:30:36.559
can follow. And so that's one
of the reasons I kind of have to

383
00:30:36.920 --> 00:30:41.440
say to myself, Okay, straighten
up, go back, what are the

384
00:30:41.480 --> 00:30:47.119
best practices and why didn't you follow
them before? It almost seems like we

385
00:30:47.200 --> 00:30:52.039
need a new instruction manual that ought
to be mandatory to be offered at every

386
00:30:52.119 --> 00:30:57.640
JFK conference and at any place where
JFK literature is being sold, that is

387
00:30:57.680 --> 00:31:03.960
titled something like how to approach the
JFK case like a historian, you know,

388
00:31:04.279 --> 00:31:08.200
which would be really really useful,
because see, that was the thing

389
00:31:08.200 --> 00:31:18.079
about Roger Remington was definitely a character, you know, Doctor Remington was a

390
00:31:18.160 --> 00:31:22.240
fascinating and sort of moody guy who
definitely didn't tolerate nonsense. Too well.

391
00:31:23.799 --> 00:31:29.119
And you know he's passed away now, but he wrote Biting the Elephant.

392
00:31:29.160 --> 00:31:33.240
I don't know. If you're you're
probably familiar with his work, right right,

393
00:31:33.440 --> 00:31:36.680
Okay, So you know the thing
is, though, is that in

394
00:31:36.759 --> 00:31:41.440
speaking with him all the time,
though he was constantly pulling me back to

395
00:31:41.559 --> 00:31:45.359
look, look, look, look, before you get way down into this,

396
00:31:45.519 --> 00:31:49.359
you know, quagmire of problems.
Understand there is an easy fix,

397
00:31:49.480 --> 00:31:52.640
and it is to look at it
the way that I was trained to look

398
00:31:52.640 --> 00:31:57.440
at it, you know. And
I didn't really appreciate it as much at

399
00:31:57.440 --> 00:32:01.599
the time as I have come to
appreciated over the years. So yeah,

400
00:32:01.680 --> 00:32:06.279
Roger Remington's another guy who I recommend
you read his stuff because it is written

401
00:32:06.279 --> 00:32:09.680
in a whole different fashion than most
of what you see in the land of

402
00:32:09.680 --> 00:32:14.759
the literature. And that's not any
offense to a whole lot of people who

403
00:32:14.799 --> 00:32:16.359
have put a lot of time,
a lot of effort, a lot of

404
00:32:16.359 --> 00:32:24.079
their own money into doing what revealing
things that would not have been revealed otherwise.

405
00:32:24.160 --> 00:32:30.000
And I appreciate them, I really
do. But at certain points you

406
00:32:30.640 --> 00:32:35.480
have to step back and take another
analytical track. And that's what I liked

407
00:32:35.480 --> 00:32:37.880
about that statement that you made at
the conference. Anyway, what is the

408
00:32:37.920 --> 00:32:43.599
progress report on the Oswald thing before
we get out of this particular quagmire,

409
00:32:43.599 --> 00:32:47.039
because we could talk about this all
night. I think, so the progress

410
00:32:47.240 --> 00:32:53.640
is I had something like ninety pages
written, okay, and Rex Bradford even

411
00:32:53.720 --> 00:32:57.000
I were even talking about. It's
kind of like, Okay, Rex,

412
00:32:57.039 --> 00:33:00.359
when are when are you going to
be ready to edit it? Now that

413
00:33:00.400 --> 00:33:05.319
I've looked at it and thought about
it some more, Yeah, those most

414
00:33:05.319 --> 00:33:10.000
of those ninety pages are probably good, but it's going to need another fifty

415
00:33:10.079 --> 00:33:17.319
pages to do justice and to set
the stage more correctly and define why this

416
00:33:17.440 --> 00:33:22.519
is being accepted and that's not being
accepted, to make it perfectly transparent.

417
00:33:22.119 --> 00:33:27.200
You know. It's it's sort of
like you might find this funny. When

418
00:33:27.240 --> 00:33:30.319
I got back, just for entertainment, I read a lot of history on

419
00:33:30.359 --> 00:33:35.799
the side, and I'm reading I'm
reading an historical study of Alexander the Great's

420
00:33:35.880 --> 00:33:40.000
campaigns, right, and I get
into the first introduction and the historian is

421
00:33:40.039 --> 00:33:45.119
going to say is talking about his
problems like, well, there were several

422
00:33:45.160 --> 00:33:49.200
of these sources and this one was
bias this way, and that one was

423
00:33:49.240 --> 00:33:52.960
bias this way, and here's how
we have to deal with it. And

424
00:33:52.000 --> 00:33:55.319
I'm going, oh, shoot,
you know this guy, this guy's looking

425
00:33:55.359 --> 00:34:00.480
over my shoulder now, like why
did I not do that in the first

426
00:34:00.480 --> 00:34:05.680
place, Because you've got to make
it transparent while you're taking one thing and

427
00:34:05.720 --> 00:34:10.679
not taking another. So to answer
your question, I've probably added at least

428
00:34:12.079 --> 00:34:15.880
three or four months to it to
step back and do a better job than

429
00:34:15.880 --> 00:34:20.440
I was doing. No, And
look, Alexander the Great is an excellent

430
00:34:20.519 --> 00:34:25.800
example because quite frankly, there is
a lot of stuff that's been memorialized about

431
00:34:25.960 --> 00:34:32.559
the massive campaigns, about the domination
of certain other nations, et cetera,

432
00:34:32.639 --> 00:34:39.320
et cetera, And frankly, it
is a labyrinth very similar to the Oswald

433
00:34:39.360 --> 00:34:45.320
Labyrinth in a certain way. Depending
on who's writing about it, you have

434
00:34:45.360 --> 00:34:50.599
a whole different view of what's happening, you know, whether it's the And

435
00:34:50.639 --> 00:34:54.079
again, there is the tremendous Asian
campaign, which is not a simple thing.

436
00:34:54.119 --> 00:34:59.199
And I have no idea why in
the hell Oliverstone decided to tackle that

437
00:34:59.199 --> 00:35:02.360
one, by the way, mone
because it's a bit messy, uh to

438
00:35:02.440 --> 00:35:08.679
say the least. Okay, that
figures, because again, and I like

439
00:35:08.760 --> 00:35:14.480
that movie. And and I find
Alexander fascinating, you know, I find

440
00:35:14.480 --> 00:35:20.000
his father fascinating. I find the
the parallel journeys between the two kingdoms,

441
00:35:20.159 --> 00:35:23.480
so to speak. Right, because
you have you have Xerxes and uh oh

442
00:35:23.559 --> 00:35:28.159
uh the the the father. I
forget who is the father's name, but

443
00:35:28.480 --> 00:35:34.440
it's it's almost a relevant Who are
ruling a huge part this huge empire,

444
00:35:34.800 --> 00:35:40.480
right and and really a great deal
of Asia, and Alexander takes this on

445
00:35:40.840 --> 00:35:44.320
and you know, and it's just
wild. I mean, even if we

446
00:35:44.320 --> 00:35:47.760
think about the concept of the libraries
of Alexandria and all that kind of stuff,

447
00:35:47.800 --> 00:35:52.320
and the different Alexandrias that were built, and uh, the way that

448
00:35:52.400 --> 00:35:57.840
he conquered people but then also allowed
their local governments to stay in place,

449
00:35:57.880 --> 00:36:00.320
their local customs to stay in place. There's a lot of things to be

450
00:36:00.360 --> 00:36:07.840
examined here from a conqueror and you
know, colonization sort of standpoint. From

451
00:36:07.880 --> 00:36:15.239
a military standpoint, there's various histories
that could be written around this one character,

452
00:36:15.920 --> 00:36:20.079
and you have all sorts of different
directions that they could go in if

453
00:36:20.119 --> 00:36:24.599
you allow bias to steer, you
see, And that's what the interesting thing

454
00:36:24.639 --> 00:36:29.119
is. If you want to make
Alexander a tremendous hero if you want to

455
00:36:29.119 --> 00:36:31.519
make him a butcher, if you
want to make him and that's the that's

456
00:36:31.559 --> 00:36:37.039
where it comes together here. You
want to make Oswald the crazy kid who

457
00:36:37.199 --> 00:36:40.800
swept himself up into madness and you
know, did something to make history.

458
00:36:42.079 --> 00:36:45.320
Okay, we can find you stuff
to do that with. You want to

459
00:36:45.320 --> 00:36:51.440
make him into mister innocent and he
was just you know, a poor victim

460
00:36:51.480 --> 00:36:55.159
of happenstance. We can kind of
do that. We can make him part

461
00:36:55.199 --> 00:37:00.519
of a larger conspiracy and like some
people want to do, Tournament an almost

462
00:37:00.559 --> 00:37:06.280
James Bond like character. Sure,
but is any of that gonna get us

463
00:37:06.320 --> 00:37:10.599
any closer to the historical reality?
The answer is no, not if we're

464
00:37:10.599 --> 00:37:15.840
going to allow that sort of bias, that preconceived notion to formulate what's coming.

465
00:37:15.920 --> 00:37:20.639
And indeed, the funny thing about
it to me is that it's exactly

466
00:37:20.719 --> 00:37:25.320
the hypocrisy that the Warrant Commission critics
started with. You know, in the

467
00:37:25.440 --> 00:37:29.519
very beginning. I used to love
this thing. And it's been said many

468
00:37:29.519 --> 00:37:34.360
different ways about well, if you're
gonna have an impartial investigation, isn't it

469
00:37:34.400 --> 00:37:37.920
funny that the first three people you
decide to you know, interview or guess

470
00:37:37.960 --> 00:37:42.679
who three people that are connected to
this guy who was temporarily hired at a

471
00:37:42.679 --> 00:37:49.719
bookstore to you know, mainly to
refinish the floor coincidentally happen to be there

472
00:37:49.760 --> 00:37:52.320
at the assassination. Are you looking
into the assassination or this guy? Or

473
00:37:52.360 --> 00:37:57.239
if you take a look at the
subcommittees in the division between these junior and

474
00:37:57.320 --> 00:38:00.519
senior counselors, which, of course
Arlen Spector was the junior counselor of a

475
00:38:00.559 --> 00:38:05.039
team of two. One guy shows
up one day and never comes back,

476
00:38:05.880 --> 00:38:08.679
you know, this kind of thing, that's the senior counselor. So Arlen

477
00:38:08.719 --> 00:38:14.519
Spector becomes a one man team.
And take a look at what the responsibilities

478
00:38:14.559 --> 00:38:20.039
of these little subcommittees that are for
the investigation. Well, three out of

479
00:38:20.079 --> 00:38:23.280
four or four out of five of
them have the name Oswald in the title

480
00:38:23.320 --> 00:38:28.679
of their job description. I mean, you know, so are we investigating

481
00:38:28.840 --> 00:38:32.239
the murder of the president or are
we investigating Lee Harvey Oswald in the Warren

482
00:38:32.239 --> 00:38:37.840
Commission, which again is a misnomer
because the most active guy there is Alan

483
00:38:37.920 --> 00:38:40.000
Dulles for some odd reason. While
Brown points that out, in the Warren

484
00:38:40.000 --> 00:38:45.639
omission mathematically in a realistic sense,
who's the guy who's actually there all the

485
00:38:45.679 --> 00:38:49.679
time, Who's the guy who's influencing
things, who's the guy who seems to

486
00:38:49.719 --> 00:38:54.119
be steering everything including the questioning?
By the way, might not be a

487
00:38:54.159 --> 00:38:59.519
guy named Warren, you know,
looks more like the dullest commission to me.

488
00:38:59.599 --> 00:39:01.800
But anyway, all these things aside, I'm looking forward to it.

489
00:39:01.880 --> 00:39:06.320
So you need to come up with
another fifty pages to do the whole thing

490
00:39:06.519 --> 00:39:10.119
justice and we might see it what
sometime this coming year? Yeah, yeah,

491
00:39:10.159 --> 00:39:14.760
I would say that would be right. So the real thing is I

492
00:39:14.880 --> 00:39:17.320
reset, I've kicked myself in the
rear, said I need to do a

493
00:39:17.320 --> 00:39:22.840
better job, and it's going to
get longer. Well, isn't that always

494
00:39:22.880 --> 00:39:25.519
the case? Plus you got the
chiropractic adjustment from the things that you encountered

495
00:39:25.519 --> 00:39:30.480
at the conference, and since so
there you go, which, by the

496
00:39:30.519 --> 00:39:35.800
way, you had some conversations with
Rex Bradford, and that alone is enough

497
00:39:35.840 --> 00:39:39.639
to go for an attitude adjustment regarding
what you're working on, right, I

498
00:39:39.679 --> 00:39:44.559
mean, yeah, it's a it's
having it. Well, I had a

499
00:39:44.639 --> 00:39:49.280
like five hour car ride down and
five hour car ride back with Rex,

500
00:39:49.480 --> 00:39:53.760
and basically he just kept beating me
up with questions. You know, you

501
00:39:53.760 --> 00:39:57.840
know, you've got to address this
and the paper, and you've got to

502
00:39:57.840 --> 00:40:00.119
address that in the paper. And
so after that kind of dialogue, that's

503
00:40:00.159 --> 00:40:07.360
another reality check. Well, look, I'm a little jealous because I think

504
00:40:07.440 --> 00:40:10.679
the shortest car ride I had was
thirteen hours in one direction, so you

505
00:40:10.800 --> 00:40:15.639
know, and I didn't have Rex
Bradford with me, so jealous twice.

506
00:40:15.920 --> 00:40:20.800
Anyway, we'll leave that alone,
and unless you've got some more things you

507
00:40:20.800 --> 00:40:22.480
want to add about the conference,
we can move on to a couple other

508
00:40:22.519 --> 00:40:27.440
subjects before we close this one out, because this is more of a Larry

509
00:40:27.480 --> 00:40:30.199
Hancock update, and for listeners,
I would suggest that you can always get

510
00:40:30.199 --> 00:40:37.320
a Larry Hancock update by going to
larrydash Handcock dot com. Obviously you hear

511
00:40:37.360 --> 00:40:40.480
me say Larry Hyphenhandcock dot com on
the commercial that we run here all the

512
00:40:40.519 --> 00:40:45.519
time for in Denial, which you
know as per usual. I'll tell you

513
00:40:45.719 --> 00:40:52.239
Larry takes up more spots on my
bookshelf than any other author in every single

514
00:40:52.320 --> 00:40:57.159
one of those volumes, whether he
authored it alone or with a co author.

515
00:40:57.880 --> 00:41:00.760
Is absolutely essential reading in my mind, so you can't go wrong.

516
00:41:00.840 --> 00:41:04.960
If you don't have a Larry Hancock
book and you want to pick one up,

517
00:41:05.400 --> 00:41:08.599
go to larrydsh Hancock dot com and
take a look at his work,

518
00:41:08.679 --> 00:41:14.039
and also catch his blog. You
can get updates there and look. If

519
00:41:14.039 --> 00:41:15.480
you got to go to Amazon and
buy them or whatever, do that too.

520
00:41:15.960 --> 00:41:20.719
But wherever you see Larry's book sold, it's a good place to go

521
00:41:20.960 --> 00:41:24.800
to get them. Anyways, back
to it. You have other work though,

522
00:41:24.840 --> 00:41:30.960
going on other things in motion.
It's not just all JFK. I

523
00:41:30.000 --> 00:41:34.000
did have a curiosity from a listener
before I move on to something I know

524
00:41:34.119 --> 00:41:38.360
you have an answer for if there
is any updates on your work on RFK

525
00:41:39.599 --> 00:41:45.440
or MLK. This was a collective
question from an email before Dallas, but

526
00:41:45.480 --> 00:41:50.679
I never got to it with you. I think MLK is done after doing

527
00:41:50.760 --> 00:41:53.800
two books on that. I think
Stu and I have captured probably everything that

528
00:41:53.840 --> 00:42:00.320
we have to say on MLK.
I'm not really sure what more could be

529
00:42:00.360 --> 00:42:06.320
done. RFK is just kind of
sitting there. It hasn't dropped over the

530
00:42:06.400 --> 00:42:13.679
last last year. I've kind of
revisited RFK a couple of times that the

531
00:42:13.840 --> 00:42:17.760
real, honest answers to the listener. I think Stu and I spent a

532
00:42:17.800 --> 00:42:23.880
lot of time doing RFK. I
did the monograph on Incomplete Justice, which

533
00:42:23.920 --> 00:42:29.360
is on the Mary Feraoh website,
which I'm still pretty comfortable with. But

534
00:42:29.599 --> 00:42:37.000
where we ended up basically is our
view of the solution of the RFK matter

535
00:42:37.679 --> 00:42:44.599
lies with the Polka Dot Dress girl, and the problem is breaking through with

536
00:42:44.719 --> 00:42:51.079
the identity of the Polka Dot Dress
girl. I've discussed what we viewed as

537
00:42:51.480 --> 00:42:57.199
the probabilities of even fact discussed before. I think we've talked about the fact

538
00:42:57.199 --> 00:43:06.559
that LAPD and the FBI were actually
interviewed people that were most likely conducted to

539
00:43:06.679 --> 00:43:10.960
the Polkadagstral and totally dropped the ball. But the problem is that this distance

540
00:43:12.000 --> 00:43:16.199
in time, unless I mean Sir
hands her Hand has gone so far to

541
00:43:16.239 --> 00:43:22.280
say that she is the key,
that she was the seminal factor in getting

542
00:43:22.320 --> 00:43:29.360
him involved in at the hotel and
triggering what happened. I believe he's faced

543
00:43:29.440 --> 00:43:34.559
up to that, but he's not
seen anymore so even Sir hands her Hand

544
00:43:34.599 --> 00:43:37.559
now agrees on that point, is
on record of it. But until you

545
00:43:37.599 --> 00:43:43.079
can break through and confirm the in
identity of that individual. I don't know

546
00:43:43.079 --> 00:43:45.800
what more you can do. No, but I haven't found a way to

547
00:43:45.840 --> 00:43:51.599
do that yet. Have taken a
couple for your listens. I haven't totally

548
00:43:51.599 --> 00:43:54.360
given up. I've worked with some
other people, took a couple of shots

549
00:43:54.400 --> 00:44:00.760
at it this past year and it
didn't work, but I haven't given up

550
00:44:00.760 --> 00:44:04.719
on it. Just no progress to
report fair enough. You know what it

551
00:44:04.800 --> 00:44:07.360
is though, is because in the
past couple of years we've been confronted with

552
00:44:07.519 --> 00:44:14.719
the near release of Sir Hann right, and then the Governor California excuse me,

553
00:44:14.840 --> 00:44:17.360
oh boy, sorry about that,
but odd reaction there because of the

554
00:44:17.400 --> 00:44:22.639
tooth of my apologies for that noise. You know, the thing is that

555
00:44:22.360 --> 00:44:25.719
when you have the near release of
Sir an sur Ann right, he was

556
00:44:25.760 --> 00:44:30.760
almost paroled if it wasn't for the
Governor of California saying nope. And you

557
00:44:30.920 --> 00:44:40.079
have the recent proclamation from RFK Junior
right regarding the assassinations, where looks like

558
00:44:40.159 --> 00:44:45.039
he's got questions about accuse. Of
course, he's always had questions about his

559
00:44:45.039 --> 00:44:50.480
father's assassination, but also about his
uncle's assassination. It's come up a bit

560
00:44:50.519 --> 00:44:52.199
more in the news, so of
course people are gonna start asking about it

561
00:44:52.199 --> 00:44:57.480
more. So I think that's fair
enough. But meanwhile, let's get away

562
00:44:57.480 --> 00:45:00.800
from murder and mayhem. Uh.
You know, the the the hotel in

563
00:45:00.840 --> 00:45:06.039
California no longer exists. You know, a lot of the evidence is gone,

564
00:45:06.119 --> 00:45:08.800
a lot of the people are gone. I'm glad we still have an

565
00:45:08.840 --> 00:45:14.280
open mind about that whole situation with
RFK, and I'd love to see a

566
00:45:14.320 --> 00:45:20.119
real resolution there and something change regarding
Sarian, But it is what it is.

567
00:45:21.119 --> 00:45:23.280
You have other work going on though, with the UAPs, and of

568
00:45:23.320 --> 00:45:28.800
course you did a book called Unidentified, But ever since you've been working with

569
00:45:28.880 --> 00:45:32.400
this committee and that is of interest
to some of the listeners as well.

570
00:45:32.840 --> 00:45:38.800
So is there any updates on that. It would probably surprise some people to

571
00:45:39.079 --> 00:45:45.679
know that over the last five years
I've probably put far more work into the

572
00:45:45.760 --> 00:45:52.159
UFO UAP thing than on JFK or
any of the other Cold War stuff that

573
00:45:52.199 --> 00:45:58.719
I've been doing. Yeah, I
think the real what's really interesting, what's

574
00:45:58.719 --> 00:46:01.239
what's at this point point in time. The team that we've had together for

575
00:46:01.280 --> 00:46:08.480
some years now is actually published two
studies, basically their intelligence studies. We

576
00:46:09.360 --> 00:46:16.519
use the practices of strategic intelligence intentions
analysis that we've we've adapted, we've published

577
00:46:16.960 --> 00:46:22.639
and two peer reviewed studies that are
available online. Even the data is online

578
00:46:22.679 --> 00:46:30.719
at a Harvard server talking about what
appeared to be the intentions of the UFO

579
00:46:31.000 --> 00:46:37.320
slash UAPs over a thirty year period
of the Cold War in regard to the

580
00:46:37.679 --> 00:46:43.559
atomic warfare complex, and that that
proved to be pretty definitive in our view

581
00:46:43.599 --> 00:46:49.800
as to what their priorities were,
what they were doing. And so now

582
00:46:49.840 --> 00:46:54.280
we've transferred looking at that same database
again in terms of what was going on

583
00:46:54.440 --> 00:46:59.639
in the public domain. Okay,
if that's what was going on with the

584
00:46:59.679 --> 00:47:04.519
Mili terry, is there anything ain't
going on with the public that's different?

585
00:47:05.559 --> 00:47:07.960
How do the patterns match? Do
we see the same patterns, the same

586
00:47:08.039 --> 00:47:13.119
focus of activity going on with the
public And the answer is no, we

587
00:47:13.239 --> 00:47:21.400
don't. There is a major transition
between UAP activity from the military space to

588
00:47:21.559 --> 00:47:29.039
the public space circa about nineteen sixty
four sixty five, the type of activity,

589
00:47:29.159 --> 00:47:34.239
the locations, the activity, and
so we have we have just finished

590
00:47:34.239 --> 00:47:43.159
peer review and anticipate publication of a
pattern study of UAP activity in the public

591
00:47:43.199 --> 00:47:50.760
space that should go out and be
available in January, where just the process

592
00:47:50.840 --> 00:47:54.039
of doing it again, doing it
in a at least a semi academic fashion

593
00:47:54.159 --> 00:48:00.639
with peer reviewers and responses and editors. It. Even when we finished a

594
00:48:00.760 --> 00:48:06.079
paper for peer review, it usually
takes us something like eight months beyond that

595
00:48:06.159 --> 00:48:12.360
point to get it through the process, responding to the peer reviewers and in

596
00:48:12.400 --> 00:48:16.199
any way protracted process. But that
should be out and I think people are

597
00:48:16.239 --> 00:48:22.440
going to find that very interesting.
If you've read UFO literature, you know

598
00:48:22.800 --> 00:48:27.960
that this is an approach people just
have not taken in the literature. All

599
00:48:28.079 --> 00:48:32.239
you tend to read about in the
literature is individual incidents, and those can

600
00:48:32.280 --> 00:48:40.559
be entertaining, exciting, fascinating,
but patterns are not the focus to most

601
00:48:40.559 --> 00:48:46.519
of the literature. So we're in
the process of getting that published out in

602
00:48:46.639 --> 00:48:52.760
January, and we're deeply at work
on the Force study, which takes us

603
00:48:52.800 --> 00:49:00.280
into some really fascinary areas because we're
taking a look. We now know what

604
00:49:00.719 --> 00:49:06.119
this transition was like, the transition
and focus the transition and activities. Now

605
00:49:06.159 --> 00:49:09.840
we're going back to those activities and
going what does that tell us about intent?

606
00:49:10.079 --> 00:49:15.159
We saw what the intent was in
the military space, what does the

607
00:49:15.199 --> 00:49:19.320
you know, of all the alternatives, because that's what you do. You

608
00:49:19.400 --> 00:49:22.840
lay out, you know, half
a dozen alternatives as to what could be

609
00:49:22.920 --> 00:49:28.079
happening, and then you have to
come up with and rank them. So

610
00:49:28.760 --> 00:49:36.880
that that requires us to take a
look at encounters contacts and actually explore the

611
00:49:37.519 --> 00:49:44.840
concept of contact, contact with an
unidentified intelligence. That's taken us back into

612
00:49:45.599 --> 00:49:50.559
a lot of the work that SETI
has done in the past, and to

613
00:49:50.679 --> 00:49:55.880
a lot of what has written been
written by anthropologists and archaeologist and social scientuss

614
00:49:55.880 --> 00:50:00.920
that's that's relevant to the question of
contact. What would it look like?

615
00:50:00.440 --> 00:50:07.360
The issues? Most everything you're reading
science fiction is way over simplified, although

616
00:50:07.360 --> 00:50:14.320
I'm a terrific science fiction lover,
but it's generally when push comes to show,

617
00:50:14.440 --> 00:50:15.920
somebody takes the box out of the
cabinet and says, oh, this

618
00:50:16.000 --> 00:50:21.480
is the universal translator. What are
they saying? And it's not really that

619
00:50:21.599 --> 00:50:29.079
easy. So yeah, the direction
for this one is really I think the

620
00:50:29.199 --> 00:50:31.639
paper coming out in January will set
the stage, but the one that we're

621
00:50:31.639 --> 00:50:37.840
working on now, the fourth paper, will really again it will make people

622
00:50:37.880 --> 00:50:42.039
think it should get a lot of
discussion. It certainly it's going to be

623
00:50:43.599 --> 00:50:47.719
it'll push some buttons. Well,
I don't know. It's it's very good.

624
00:50:47.800 --> 00:50:51.239
It's funny to me because it seems
to me like a lot of the

625
00:50:51.239 --> 00:50:53.239
work that you do, no matter
what the field is, should be pressing

626
00:50:53.280 --> 00:51:00.119
buttons on people. And you know, because you often have this nun for

627
00:51:00.280 --> 00:51:07.760
finding things that other people did not
challenge previously, and you say, well,

628
00:51:07.960 --> 00:51:09.320
wait a minute, you didn't do
this. It's it's like the guy

629
00:51:09.360 --> 00:51:12.559
who goes mind you and says,
you didn't do this part of the work,

630
00:51:12.599 --> 00:51:17.119
Now let's do it. This is
like the Larry Hancock roll, and

631
00:51:17.440 --> 00:51:20.880
what do we call it? Generally? It's kind of like what was the

632
00:51:20.880 --> 00:51:25.559
context for that? Okay? But
yeah, you're right. It's because I've

633
00:51:25.559 --> 00:51:30.519
got a hole of this wall behind
me is full of books on UFOs and

634
00:51:30.559 --> 00:51:35.360
it's almost incident by incident. You
know, they're so fascinating, each one,

635
00:51:35.400 --> 00:51:39.519
each report, each each individual thing
is so fascinating that even you know,

636
00:51:40.320 --> 00:51:45.039
the Air Force always looked at it
incident by incident. Currently, the

637
00:51:45.360 --> 00:51:50.760
the DoD team that's looking at now
still looks at it incident by incident.

638
00:51:51.320 --> 00:51:55.239
Everybody that writes it gets gets hung
up on the individual incidents, and nobody

639
00:51:55.280 --> 00:52:02.000
crunches them together. So look,
in fairness though the incidents are fascinating,

640
00:52:02.079 --> 00:52:06.880
it's not like the the you know, the the JFK universe, where people

641
00:52:06.920 --> 00:52:09.679
get so bogged down in the minutia
you're bored to death unless you're interested,

642
00:52:09.800 --> 00:52:15.559
you know what I mean. I've
had people glaze over. Well I'm sitting

643
00:52:15.599 --> 00:52:20.440
there explaining something very specifically because it's
like, look, you're getting into details

644
00:52:20.440 --> 00:52:23.559
about a subject area that just doesn't
But when you go with the UFO thing,

645
00:52:24.159 --> 00:52:29.440
every single one of these incidents could
be if they're well documented, right,

646
00:52:30.119 --> 00:52:32.519
extremely fascinating. There's a lot of
places to go. There's a lot

647
00:52:32.519 --> 00:52:37.599
of story to tell. It's not
just you know, data, data point,

648
00:52:37.679 --> 00:52:39.679
data point. Oh, by the
way, you're unfamiliar with you know,

649
00:52:40.119 --> 00:52:44.519
all of these concepts when it comes
to ballistics. Well, let me

650
00:52:44.599 --> 00:52:46.480
enlighten you. No, it's not
like that. See, with the science

651
00:52:46.480 --> 00:52:49.880
fiction thing, it's like, look, these are people that go into an

652
00:52:49.920 --> 00:52:52.519
area or you know, not science
fiction. With the UFO stuff, Excuse

653
00:52:52.559 --> 00:52:57.360
me, it's just like science fiction. Show me the world, right,

654
00:52:58.079 --> 00:53:02.360
show me the the audit in it. Why is it so different? You

655
00:53:02.400 --> 00:53:07.000
know? And yes, I want
some of the details that's why it's science

656
00:53:07.039 --> 00:53:09.239
fiction, because it has to have
that element to it, you know what

657
00:53:09.320 --> 00:53:14.039
I mean, where it's just fun. I mean I collect these books for

658
00:53:14.119 --> 00:53:16.480
ages, and I will say that
there I have like a whole shelf full

659
00:53:16.519 --> 00:53:22.960
of books which I know everything in
it is not true, right, Okay,

660
00:53:22.400 --> 00:53:25.239
I actually have a couple of shelves
like that, But it's fun and

661
00:53:25.320 --> 00:53:29.760
occasionally I'll pull out one of those
books and read it because it's fun.

662
00:53:29.880 --> 00:53:35.559
It's just entertaining. So yeah,
there is and and there's no bloodshed and

663
00:53:35.559 --> 00:53:37.880
gore and okay, what did the
blood spatter look like? And where you

664
00:53:37.880 --> 00:53:44.360
know, it's generally speaking better entertainment. See. But that's the thing is

665
00:53:44.519 --> 00:53:49.119
you go making up stories about you
know, about Lee Harvey Oswald or the

666
00:53:49.159 --> 00:53:52.880
assassination. You're really just a jerk
when you're making up stories. You make

667
00:53:52.960 --> 00:53:57.800
up stories about you know, aliens
and UFOs and it's kind of fun.

668
00:53:58.000 --> 00:54:02.440
It's you know, you're it's perfectly
permissible. There's a whole genre for that,

669
00:54:02.800 --> 00:54:07.480
you know what I'm saying. But
you go with this other historical situation

670
00:54:07.719 --> 00:54:09.840
or you know, the RFK thing
or MLK, how dare you go in

671
00:54:09.880 --> 00:54:14.840
there and falsify history. But if
you make up stuff about you know,

672
00:54:15.320 --> 00:54:20.320
encounters with an alien intelligence, if
you go and you make up a story,

673
00:54:20.360 --> 00:54:23.639
it's it's fun. It's what it
is. Like you said, I've

674
00:54:23.679 --> 00:54:30.480
got this one book that's it just
relates the experience over like eighteen months of

675
00:54:30.519 --> 00:54:35.480
this couple who got really turned on
to the earliest contact these back in you

676
00:54:35.519 --> 00:54:37.800
know, the early fifties, and
so they went to Mexico. They went

677
00:54:37.840 --> 00:54:42.320
around and visited all these people and
talked to them, and you know,

678
00:54:42.320 --> 00:54:45.840
they're setting down with somebody who's met
aliens from Venus, and they're sitting down

679
00:54:45.880 --> 00:54:52.679
with other people who are mentally in
touch with the twelfth dimensional rulers of the

680
00:54:52.800 --> 00:54:55.840
universe, and it's like, wow, this is you know, yeah,

681
00:54:55.840 --> 00:55:00.400
I know none of it's true now, but gosh, that would be fun.

682
00:55:00.039 --> 00:55:02.800
Well, and it is also fascinating. Yeah, the people that go

683
00:55:04.320 --> 00:55:07.360
and there are people trying to do
this in the JFK genre, by the

684
00:55:07.360 --> 00:55:09.599
way, but thankfully they've been ignored
for the most part so far. I

685
00:55:09.639 --> 00:55:13.920
mean literally, after I did Coast
to Coast, I started getting contacts from

686
00:55:13.960 --> 00:55:15.280
people who said, look, you
want to really you know, I got

687
00:55:15.320 --> 00:55:17.880
a bunch of emails that start out
with do you really want to get at

688
00:55:17.920 --> 00:55:23.760
the actual truth behind the Kennedy assassination? Dozens of those, right, So

689
00:55:24.119 --> 00:55:27.719
some of them were, do you
really want to get at the truth?

690
00:55:27.760 --> 00:55:30.000
Well, I know this, and
I've seen this, and I know the

691
00:55:30.039 --> 00:55:34.599
guys in the mob that really did
it, okay, and you know,

692
00:55:34.679 --> 00:55:37.559
and other people say I know the
real story because I know Judy Baker,

693
00:55:37.639 --> 00:55:44.599
Okay, you know, stuff like
that. And then I come across you

694
00:55:44.639 --> 00:55:46.360
want to get at the real truth, here's how you do it. There's

695
00:55:46.400 --> 00:55:52.320
these people that are channeling JFK and
Jackie and you can hear right from Jackie's

696
00:55:52.320 --> 00:55:57.599
mouth exactly what happened that day,
Larry. You know, it's a perfect

697
00:55:57.719 --> 00:56:01.559
one. Did you ever hear of
a TV show called Dark Skies. I've

698
00:56:01.599 --> 00:56:06.039
heard of it. Yes, I'd
be interested if your listeners heard of that.

699
00:56:06.360 --> 00:56:10.159
It was like perfect basically what it
is. The the aliens show up

700
00:56:10.159 --> 00:56:16.440
at Roswell, we shoot them down, they become hostile, they killed JFK,

701
00:56:17.000 --> 00:56:22.960
and RFK begins begins a crusade against
these aliens. I mean, it's

702
00:56:23.000 --> 00:56:28.920
like the mash of both worlds.
Like I would sit down and watch it

703
00:56:29.000 --> 00:56:31.760
I'm going, wow, okay,
yeah, this is this has got everything

704
00:56:32.079 --> 00:56:36.719
I got. I did not know
it had that much in it. Was

705
00:56:36.760 --> 00:56:38.639
that one episode or was that like
a b No, it was on for

706
00:56:38.679 --> 00:56:43.719
at least one full year, maybe
two. I you know what, I've

707
00:56:43.760 --> 00:56:45.559
heard of this but didn't know the
detail. I'm going to have to check

708
00:56:45.559 --> 00:56:50.719
out Dark Skies Okay, oh yeah, anyway, I will get into it.

709
00:56:50.800 --> 00:56:53.440
Just but look, that kind of
thing is fun, and I know

710
00:56:53.519 --> 00:56:58.079
Stephen King tried to have some fun
with it, but I mean, you

711
00:56:58.119 --> 00:57:01.320
know, I don't know, it's
it's it's not the same thing. It's

712
00:57:01.400 --> 00:57:06.719
just not you know, like the
time travel aspect of it or all that

713
00:57:06.719 --> 00:57:08.280
stuff. Like I like the Twilight
Zone episode. Do you ever see that

714
00:57:08.320 --> 00:57:12.800
one the oh yes, yeah,
yeah, like the eighties one or whatever

715
00:57:12.840 --> 00:57:15.719
it was. It was the eighties
or nineties, I forget, but they

716
00:57:15.239 --> 00:57:19.360
put a different guy in charge.
JFK actually got to go to the future

717
00:57:19.480 --> 00:57:22.119
in that one. Spoiler Yeah,
uh yeah, yeah, I actually like

718
00:57:22.199 --> 00:57:27.039
that one. You know, he's
carrying around the half dollar, the whole

719
00:57:27.039 --> 00:57:31.679
bit. It's it's it's really campy
and really silly, but kind of fun,

720
00:57:32.119 --> 00:57:35.679
you know what I mean. Like
here's the one that was That was

721
00:57:35.719 --> 00:57:38.800
why dark skies. It was it
was kind of outrageous enough to be fun

722
00:57:38.840 --> 00:57:44.639
because you didn't feel compelled like the
even's quas I take it seriously, you

723
00:57:44.679 --> 00:57:49.199
know, like nobody is offering this
as a an even of what if?

724
00:57:49.360 --> 00:57:54.159
So but anyway, so, yeah, the the UFO UAP thing that we

725
00:57:54.199 --> 00:57:58.719
are, So we're moving forward with
that, like I say, I just

726
00:57:58.920 --> 00:58:05.119
U And actually, interestingly enough,
I'd forgotten to mention it. This month,

727
00:58:06.239 --> 00:58:10.920
another one of the papers that I
with a different team cooperated on doing

728
00:58:10.960 --> 00:58:23.360
a study of basically the physical characteristics
electronic kinematic basically how unconventional are these UFOs

729
00:58:23.880 --> 00:58:30.480
And we looked at the entire span
of time from like forty seven up to

730
00:58:30.559 --> 00:58:35.360
twenty sixteen. And that paper we've
just published it. It's fear reviewed and

731
00:58:35.400 --> 00:58:39.880
available. We had a totally separate
team with some university students out of Canada

732
00:58:39.920 --> 00:58:45.000
and some other people, and that
I just if anybody goes to my word

733
00:58:45.079 --> 00:58:50.400
press blog, I've just recently blogged
about that paper, so I tend to

734
00:58:50.440 --> 00:58:52.280
get lost, like, yeah,
that was another paper we did. There

735
00:58:52.320 --> 00:58:54.960
you go, and I urge people
to do that. I'll also put the

736
00:58:54.960 --> 00:59:00.320
word press blog link in the in
the show notes here for tonight's show,

737
00:59:00.480 --> 00:59:04.239
and with that, I'm gonna,
you know, kind of wrap a bow

738
00:59:04.280 --> 00:59:08.519
around this one for everybody, because
this is the little Larryhandcock update for Christmas

739
00:59:08.559 --> 00:59:13.760
basically. Okay, so we'll put
a bow around it as best we can.

740
00:59:14.800 --> 00:59:17.119
My apologies if anybody thinks, you
know, I didn't answer all the

741
00:59:17.199 --> 00:59:21.960
questions or get to everything everybody wanted
to know from Larry. But I figure

742
00:59:22.000 --> 00:59:25.519
this this will have to do until
next year, when I'll I'll have Larry

743
00:59:25.559 --> 00:59:30.079
back on regularly hopefully, and we'll
get into all the things that he's doing

744
00:59:30.119 --> 00:59:35.000
and whatever the hell else is happening
in the news. And thankfully I haven't

745
00:59:35.000 --> 00:59:38.760
had to discuss Goza with you yet, you know, et cetera. Okay,

746
00:59:39.400 --> 00:59:43.719
so or jivoody. I mean,
well that's another one. That's another

747
00:59:43.719 --> 00:59:46.239
one, and god knows what will
happen in between now in the beginning of

748
00:59:46.239 --> 00:59:51.039
the new year. But in the
meantime, Yeah, Larry Hypeinhancock dot com.

749
00:59:51.079 --> 00:59:54.239
Go there check out his work,
and obviously I'll give you the WordPress

750
00:59:54.280 --> 00:59:59.119
link, but if you go to
Larry dash Handcock dot com, I know

751
00:59:59.159 --> 01:00:01.159
there's a link there too, so
you can get in touch with all this

752
01:00:01.199 --> 01:00:04.360
stuff. As a matter of fact, Larry, I appreciate if you sent

753
01:00:04.400 --> 01:00:07.960
me over the link to the latest
paper and maybe even a spot to where

754
01:00:08.000 --> 01:00:12.719
the uh the new paper is gonna
be available just next month, right sometime

755
01:00:12.840 --> 01:00:16.800
in January, we're gonna have a
new pattern study, right, uh on

756
01:00:16.880 --> 01:00:22.039
what's going on with the uap S
and the history of it and the uh

757
01:00:22.400 --> 01:00:28.599
well the military and uh intelligence reaction, right, Uh yeah, definitely yeah.

758
01:00:28.599 --> 01:00:30.199
I mean I'm trying to bottle it
as best I can without you know,

759
01:00:30.280 --> 01:00:35.559
stealing directly from the title you put
but I'm just saying uh anyway,

760
01:00:35.880 --> 01:00:37.480
So in the meantime, Larry,
I appreciate you for doing this with us,

761
01:00:37.559 --> 01:00:42.840
and UH always appreciate your your contributions
to the show. I actually got

762
01:00:42.840 --> 01:00:46.320
a couple of ideas and a couple
of requests. Uh. People want to

763
01:00:46.360 --> 01:00:52.119
get some Myths episodes in and have
asked specifically if you could join in on

764
01:00:52.480 --> 01:00:58.639
uh one or two of them.
They're they're pitching ideas for Myths episodes now,

765
01:00:59.119 --> 01:01:01.400
so uh, I might do.
I might do a few, just

766
01:01:01.400 --> 01:01:06.079
to get back at it. Always
happy, you just have to remember how

767
01:01:06.199 --> 01:01:08.360
quiet and shy I am in a
group. Ah, well, not so

768
01:01:08.519 --> 01:01:12.400
much, though, I don't know, except when I mean with Gayle there

769
01:01:12.440 --> 01:01:15.239
though, I mean, what are
you gonna do? You know? That

770
01:01:15.400 --> 01:01:17.880
was interesting If you guys didn't catch
that at the Lancer conference, it is

771
01:01:19.679 --> 01:01:22.239
one of a kind thing. And
shout out again to Dale and Doug and

772
01:01:23.360 --> 01:01:28.079
Larry and David, all of them, David Boiling, all of them who

773
01:01:28.119 --> 01:01:30.679
participated in that. And again the
Walker panel, Well, what is it

774
01:01:30.719 --> 01:01:36.639
about the alleged you know, the
alleged attempt at shooting of General Walker?

775
01:01:37.119 --> 01:01:39.119
What kind of character he was,
what we can know about him now?

776
01:01:39.199 --> 01:01:45.519
What is being learned even today about
what actually happened there? How that links

777
01:01:45.519 --> 01:01:49.159
to Oswald? And well, how
about the whole way that Oswald was shaped?

778
01:01:49.519 --> 01:01:52.800
Indeed, I think you have to
begin with the Walker discussion. But

779
01:01:52.840 --> 01:01:57.199
then again I haven't. I haven't
seen what the monograph's gonna look like,

780
01:01:57.239 --> 01:02:00.320
and that'll be coming up this year. So actually, Gail's work and some

781
01:02:00.360 --> 01:02:05.639
of the stuff in her again,
I think she gets real kudos. One

782
01:02:05.679 --> 01:02:09.440
of the things I'm finding is that
independent authors get in her book goes into

783
01:02:10.119 --> 01:02:16.079
and fb elements of the FBI and
investigation of the Walker shooting that I had

784
01:02:16.119 --> 01:02:22.360
never seen before and are very important
to understanding. I would say when I

785
01:02:22.400 --> 01:02:28.039
first encountered that twenty years ago,
everybody was treating it as if the FBI

786
01:02:28.119 --> 01:02:31.559
had blown it off and not even
investigated it, which is the furthest thing

787
01:02:31.599 --> 01:02:37.159
from the truth. So anyway,
another story indeed, And yeah, again

788
01:02:37.280 --> 01:02:39.679
kudos to Gail, and kudos to
a lot of people who have uncovered a

789
01:02:39.679 --> 01:02:45.199
great deal of information that was previously
unknown. So once again, Larrydshhancock dot

790
01:02:45.239 --> 01:02:49.119
com, go there, check it
out. I do recommend any one of

791
01:02:49.119 --> 01:02:52.000
the books that has his name as
the author or the co author. So

792
01:02:52.440 --> 01:02:55.119
that's the end of that for tonight. No matter who you are, where

793
01:02:55.159 --> 01:02:59.360
you are, when you are,
I am merely O'Kelly, all of you

794
01:02:59.440 --> 01:03:05.199
are indeed effect Larry Hancock my guest
tonight, and uh we should all thank

795
01:03:05.280 --> 01:03:32.199
you for doing that. Wall Stream
Window dot dot who silver the stock market?

796
01:03:34.360 --> 01:03:39.639
Wall Stream Window dott Perhaps you're invested
deeply, perhaps you're not in deep

797
01:03:39.719 --> 01:03:45.679
enough. Maybe you're thinking about getting
started Wall Street Windows dot com, doo

798
01:03:45.880 --> 01:03:50.880
dot com. Michael Swanson, the
brilliant author of the War State understood these

799
01:03:50.920 --> 01:03:53.800
trends professionally for many years, and
now he gives you the benefit of his

800
01:03:53.960 --> 01:04:02.280
knowledge. Wall streetdo dot dot go
there, now go there, now go

801
01:04:02.400 --> 01:04:06.119
there now to use expressed by coler
schools. There anyone else who happened to

802
01:04:06.119 --> 01:04:09.880
get on the air of jelly dot
com if you not necessarily reflect views of

803
01:04:10.039 --> 01:04:12.960
jelly dot com, ord job Jelly, and we are not responsible for any

804
01:04:12.960 --> 01:04:15.599
stumidity which you might ensue. Thank
you. The War State by Michael Swanson

805
01:04:15.719 --> 01:04:20.199
explains the great national transformation that took
place and put the Kennedy presidency in the

806
01:04:20.199 --> 01:04:26.639
context of the times and revealed never
before published information about the Cuban missile crisis.

807
01:04:26.880 --> 01:04:30.920
President Kennedy would not have been assassinated
if he had been president two hundred

808
01:04:30.960 --> 01:04:34.400
years ago. His assassination took place
in the context of the Cold War and

809
01:04:34.480 --> 01:04:39.239
the rise of the national security state. Before World War II, the United

810
01:04:39.280 --> 01:04:43.159
States was a continental republic. In
the decade that followed, it became an

811
01:04:43.199 --> 01:04:47.199
imperial superpower. Generals such as Curtis
LeMay not only wanted to invade Cuba,

812
01:04:47.280 --> 01:04:50.760
but knew that there were short range
missiles on the island. Arn't with nuclear

813
01:04:50.800 --> 01:04:56.280
warheads that they could not destroy because
they were on mobile launchers. Their invasion

814
01:04:56.360 --> 01:04:59.800
could have led to a Third World
War, and they wanted to go to

815
01:05:00.480 --> 01:05:03.920
anyway. The War State by Michael
Swanson reveals why, and we'll show you

816
01:05:03.960 --> 01:05:09.320
what President Kennedy was up against.
For more information, The War State dot

817
01:05:09.320 --> 01:05:15.559
Com, dot com Radio Network,
Chili dot com. Go ahead, call

818
01:05:15.599 --> 01:05:18.519
it about the JAFA assassination. Right, well, what do you want to

819
01:05:18.519 --> 01:05:24.119
know any Baker's wild claim? Oswald
girlfriends he knew, Ruby and Barry answer

820
01:05:24.159 --> 01:05:27.079
weapons? Really, I imagine I
could claim I have four wheels. It

821
01:05:27.079 --> 01:05:30.079
doesn't make me a wagon. But
okay, on the building and trying to

822
01:05:30.079 --> 01:05:33.280
prevent the murder of John Kennedy.
Come on now has a real effort on

823
01:05:33.360 --> 01:05:41.480
the DAFA assassinationlaim Go to Amazon dot
com enter Judith Baker in her own words.

824
01:05:41.599 --> 01:05:45.280
You'll get the results for a digital
copy of a book where Walt Brown

825
01:05:45.480 --> 01:05:49.480
utilizes her own words and the known
evidence in the case to get at well

826
01:05:50.039 --> 01:05:55.119
a different perspective. Let's say you
can get Judith Barry Baker in her own

827
01:05:55.159 --> 01:06:00.000
words from the author himself, signed
if you request it by contacting doctor Brown

828
01:06:00.000 --> 01:06:04.719
one kias jfk At Aol dot com. It's a fun book and it actually

829
01:06:05.119 --> 01:06:11.159
dissects the many, many fantastic claims. Judith Vary Baker, in her own

830
01:06:11.199 --> 01:06:17.280
words, thank you for revelation through
conversation. In Denial the Secret Wars with

831
01:06:17.440 --> 01:06:24.679
Air Strikes and Tanks by Larry Hancock. Secret wars became a staple of US

832
01:06:24.719 --> 01:06:30.320
covert operations and are still happening today. Larry Hancock's book In Denial rips the

833
01:06:30.360 --> 01:06:33.280
cover off many of them, using
new files. It exposes things about the

834
01:06:33.280 --> 01:06:38.280
Bay of Pigs that no one has
ever written about before. It shows why

835
01:06:38.320 --> 01:06:42.239
it really failed and why the United
States did not earn from it. It

836
01:06:42.280 --> 01:06:46.559
also shows why other countries today are
doing secret operations with more success. This

837
01:06:46.599 --> 01:06:51.079
is the book that puts what some
want to deny into the light. In

838
01:06:51.199 --> 01:06:59.119
Denial, Secret Wars with Air Strikes
and Tanks Larry Hancock. For more information,

839
01:06:59.360 --> 01:07:02.280
go to Larry hyphen Handcock dot com. Pick up your copy of In

840
01:07:02.400 --> 01:07:28.599
Denial at Amazon dot com in digital
or physical. A quick little drop in

841
01:07:29.119 --> 01:07:33.079
just a note that if you wish
to become a supporter at o'chelly dot com,

842
01:07:33.199 --> 01:07:36.039
I have a special for you up
until the beginning of the year,

843
01:07:36.559 --> 01:07:43.320
and it could be a big,
big help to me as challenges have come

844
01:07:43.400 --> 01:07:48.280
up and I've gotten quite drained with
the removal of another tooth and other fun

845
01:07:48.360 --> 01:07:53.639
things. And also tis the season
after all. So anyway, a twelve

846
01:07:53.719 --> 01:07:58.679
month membership, okay, and a
spot on our wall. I've got that

847
01:07:58.840 --> 01:08:02.000
up at the website for one hundred
fifty dollars. But if you use the

848
01:08:02.039 --> 01:08:08.679
discount code year end all one word
year end, seventy five bucks right now

849
01:08:08.760 --> 01:08:14.400
until January first, and that gives
you a twelve month subscription to ocelly dot

850
01:08:14.440 --> 01:08:17.840
com, which means you get special
access podcasts that don't go out everywhere,

851
01:08:18.239 --> 01:08:24.479
extra stuff on the exclusives page droughout
twenty twenty four. And you'll also be

852
01:08:24.560 --> 01:08:33.119
included in the archive emails because I'll
be emailing zip folders that contain the entire

853
01:08:33.399 --> 01:08:39.319
decade of the O'Kelly effect, the
shows I produced, the shows I guessed

854
01:08:39.359 --> 01:08:44.000
it on, extra stuff, all
that over the course of the year.

855
01:08:44.119 --> 01:08:49.199
So once a month you'll get a
massive ZIP folder full of up to it'll

856
01:08:49.239 --> 01:08:54.199
be around five thousand podcasts, I'm
sure when it's all said and done,

857
01:08:54.600 --> 01:08:59.920
five thousand podcasts and other media all
in these folders, these zip folders.

858
01:09:00.079 --> 01:09:03.760
Once a month, if you remember
at Ocelli dot com, somewhere around the

859
01:09:03.840 --> 01:09:08.680
end of January, the first one
will come out. But here's the other

860
01:09:08.760 --> 01:09:12.520
thing. Okay, seventy five bucks
is a little much. Can't afford it

861
01:09:12.520 --> 01:09:14.920
because it's Christmas time. I mean, I don't want to give you that

862
01:09:15.000 --> 01:09:20.359
Christmas present, Chuck cool. Here's
the thing I'm also now because well,

863
01:09:21.000 --> 01:09:25.399
if you sign up nowadays, okay, if you've already signed up at six

864
01:09:25.560 --> 01:09:29.840
ninety nine, you're there, you're
good. But if you sign up today,

865
01:09:29.880 --> 01:09:33.079
normally it's ten dollars a month.
Now to get that whole year twenty

866
01:09:33.119 --> 01:09:39.279
twenty four with the emails, no
spot on the supporter wall, but with

867
01:09:39.399 --> 01:09:44.439
the emails and all that good stuff, normally that costs you ten dollars a

868
01:09:44.439 --> 01:09:45.920
month. So at the end of
the year you spent one hundred and twenty

869
01:09:45.920 --> 01:09:51.000
bucks, but it's only ten dollars
a month. However, if you use

870
01:09:51.039 --> 01:09:56.640
the promo code, you can get
it for five to fifty a month.

871
01:09:58.359 --> 01:10:00.399
Your sign up is nine dollars,
but then it's five to fifty per month

872
01:10:00.439 --> 01:10:04.600
after that, and that ends up
being seventy five bucks. Again, but

873
01:10:04.720 --> 01:10:09.640
over the course of the year,
you pay it off and you use the

874
01:10:09.840 --> 01:10:15.199
promo code year end monthly. All
one word year end monthly is the promo

875
01:10:15.279 --> 01:10:18.840
code. When you sign up to
be a subscriber at Ocelli dot com.

876
01:10:19.000 --> 01:10:21.720
Now you don't have to use the
promo codes. But if you want to

877
01:10:21.760 --> 01:10:26.119
sign up to be on the supporter
wall, pay one time one fee for

878
01:10:26.199 --> 01:10:31.239
the whole year of a membership,
plus you're on the wall permanently. Year

879
01:10:31.439 --> 01:10:36.840
end is the promo code, one
time payment. It prices normally one hundred

880
01:10:36.840 --> 01:10:42.239
and fifty bucks. It's seventy five
if you do that. If you want

881
01:10:42.239 --> 01:10:45.119
to do it by the month,
make your monthly installments. You don't care

882
01:10:45.159 --> 01:10:47.680
about being on the supporter wall.
Cool enough, all the same stuff,

883
01:10:47.720 --> 01:10:53.359
Like I said, the emails with
the entire archive from ochelli dot com over

884
01:10:53.399 --> 01:10:56.159
the course of the entire year.
Once a month you get a zip folder

885
01:10:56.680 --> 01:11:00.479
if you sign up for nine bucks
and then pay five fifty per month after

886
01:11:00.520 --> 01:11:04.039
that, so even cheaper than the
old price, except you sign up for

887
01:11:04.119 --> 01:11:10.279
nine dollars. So there you go. That's the total promo plus. Obviously,

888
01:11:10.319 --> 01:11:14.039
I'm more than happy to take any
donations at oceli dot com. You

889
01:11:14.199 --> 01:11:18.079
keep us going and you can indeed
be the effect. So again for the

890
01:11:18.600 --> 01:11:23.960
total package and to be on the
supporter wall, the promo code is year

891
01:11:24.199 --> 01:11:28.039
end, one word, no spaces, no capitals. Year end is the

892
01:11:28.079 --> 01:11:30.640
promo code. And if you want
to sign up for a discount membership,

893
01:11:31.239 --> 01:11:34.720
nine dollars on your first payment,
but five point fifty every month after that,

894
01:11:35.880 --> 01:11:43.760
year end monthly all one word,
no capitalization. Year end monthly is

895
01:11:43.800 --> 01:11:48.520
the way to go. So and
it's y EA R E n D year

896
01:11:48.800 --> 01:11:53.119
end or year end monthly, depending
on what you sign up for at o'celli

897
01:11:53.199 --> 01:11:57.119
dot com or don't sign up.
Just make a donation in the upper right

898
01:11:57.119 --> 01:12:01.319
hand corner on a most desk and
laptop, but somewhere on your mobile device

899
01:12:01.399 --> 01:12:06.199
you can make a donation via PayPal
and everything counts this time of year.

900
01:12:06.640 --> 01:12:09.880
I hate having to go to friends
and ask them to help me out with

901
01:12:09.960 --> 01:12:13.000
things, and that's what I've had
to do recently, So I'd really really

902
01:12:13.079 --> 01:12:17.079
appreciate it if some of you who
have thought about signing up would sign up

903
01:12:17.560 --> 01:12:24.760
or make a donation or something.
We only keep going because you are indeed

904
01:12:24.880 --> 01:12:36.199
the effect at O'Kelly dot com going
to Chuck o'ceelly. We're here, Shark

905
01:12:36.279 --> 01:12:40.720
or Shelley. You know it's sharka
Shelley. You are about doing marking upon

906
01:12:40.800 --> 01:12:43.680
the wait, you say, the
eyes of the world out upon you,

907
01:12:44.159 --> 01:12:48.920
The hopes and prayers of liberty loving
people everywhere march with you, in company

908
01:12:48.920 --> 01:12:54.880
with our braid allies and brothers in
arms on the other front. Your attack

909
01:12:55.000 --> 01:12:59.279
will not be an easy one.
Your enemy is well trained, well equipped.

910
01:12:59.319 --> 01:13:00.199
In battle Heart it was