Hello everyone, and welcome to the latest episode of Hardwood Knocks. This is Adam Framil here with my fantastic co host Dan Favalley. We have a special locker Room episode for you today. We're going to be covering the futures of the NBA's worst teams, looking at seven of the teams with the NBA's worst record during the twenty twenty one season and figuring out how high we think they're going to rise in the near future, as well as diving into some of the mailbag questions we received via Twitter, via direct message, however else those arrived in our inboxes, and giving a chance to anyone who's listening live on Locker Room a chance to ask questions of their own. But before we dive into any of those things, Dan, how's it going. I am doing well. How are you doing, Adam? I am hanging in there. It is a beautiful day in Colorado, unlike the last two weeks where we keep getting snow despite it being April, So I am taking advantage of that, he says while locked in the basement recording a podcast during What game are we missing too as we record this? That's why we're gonna have no listeners, but it's okay, we can deal with that. Yeah. So I don't know how you approach this exercise, but we the stipulation we said was we wanted we took all seven teams that currently have a sub one percent chance or have been eliminated from the playoffs, and we wanted to rank their futures. And I just did it. I didn't specify for myself a trajectory, but I am looking basically at which team has the best chance of being special as soon as possible and sustaining that success. Yeah. The way I looked at it was just more generalized. There wasn't like specific ranking criteria here so much as just like, given all of the pieces currently in place, the draft picks in the arsenal, the strength of the front office, et cetera, et cetera, which team would I rather be a part of if the goal was to win as soon as possible. Yeah, so you want to start with your number seven. And I believe you said we have some disagreements, because you know my seven year seven. This is not one of the disagreements, because I think it has to be the Houston Rockets. Now, they might have done the best they could with a tricky and weird and bad situation while James Harden was still on the roster. But given the outgoing picks that they have, the fact that they control the Brooklyn nets future draft selections to some extent isn't all that appealing when the Nets are just overloaded with talent and it's hard to find like a number of true centerpieces on that roster right now. Like, Yeah, Christian Wood has looked awesome in limited minutes, Kevin Porter Junior has shown some flashes, Jayshon Tate has looked good and in a small sample, but beyond that, it's hard to get too excited about the incumbents on this team, and you're relying solely on a set of draft picks that aren't really as exciting as we're going to see as we progress further into this exercise. Yeah, and I think one of the biggest issue for me is for every rebuild, you want to find that north star, and I just the Rockets don't have it right now, and they didn't get it as part of the James Harden's trade. It seems like they might have had the chance to had they been willing to deal with Philly, which it doesn't seem like they were. And then even having a carus Leavert and Jared Allen, but they instead took Victor Oladipo and a first round pick, another second round pick, they move Victor Ladipo. We want all that story, and so put you in this situation where you're very reliant on these picks. And that's great, but when are the nets you control? The nets is first round draft through two twenty seven, which is great, but how long is it going to be before the nets send you a really good pick? And there's, by the way, there's a chance that none of those picks are really good. If they the superstars decide to stay together, or if two of them remain healthy at least, and you look at their own picks, that's where they get, you know, a little bit iffy there they have. Okay, so you can swap for Houston's pick with its own or Miamis and it's top four protected. And so while Houston's going to have probably top three lottery odds this season, if they lose that pick, it does set their rebuild back a bunch. When you're not drafting within the top you know four, or excuse me, yeah, within the top four of this this draft class and the thunder control of Houston's first rounders in twenty twenty four and twenty twenty six both are top four protected. But you've now created, like when you look at that twenty twenty four pick, you have this two year window on which you could if you wanted to tank. And I'm not saying every team needs to tank, but you do need to find talent that can be building blocks, and right now they don't have anyone. I think Christian Wood comes closest to being that that ten pole star. I think you could put him in like the tail end of that category if you felt like it, and they do have Look, Jayshawn Tate interesting. Kevin Porter Junior has been interesting for them too. When he's not in league's health and safety protocols because of the herfuffle at a strip club. Hopefully sternly Brown continues to make a recovery. Gee, that's it, though, Like it's Eric Gordon, John Wall, like those names aren't doing anything for you long term. They're under contract long term, but they're not. Eric Gordon was fine this season before you got injured, But those aren't doing anything for you long term, and so even when you're when they're not absent bright spots, too much of their futures left a chance for me. I will say a quick plug that everyone should go and read the Jay Shawn Tate feature that Mere and Fader wrote for The Ringer. It is fantastic and we'll just make you root for him even more. And he has been impressive as a rookie, but it's hard to put him or Kevin Porter Junior in that ten pole category. They're they're frankly not Yeah, I think beyond that, Like I guess are you looking at like kJ Martin would be the next best option? Like that's how quickly things dwindle up in Houston right now? Right so I don't I just don't know how you put them, whether there be a case to even put them above any of these teams, and maybe to number six is how are you you know what? Who is your number six team? And what would it take for Houston elite program. There's nothing that Houston can do right now. I mean, like, sure it can hit on a bunch of draft picks, but that requires striking gold on non lottery picks, and that's really hard to do on a consistent basis. I just I don't know that the timelines are going to make sense with with Christian Wood. I don't know that. I don't. I don't know how much more upside we can see from Kevin Porter Jr. Especially if he's you know, not going to stay available, some of which is through his own doing. So I don't really foresee a path for Houston to move out of this seventh spot anytime soon. We do disagree on number six, though I had you have the Orlando magic who I have one spot higher, was actually tempted to put them even higher than number five. I have a time distance. There's so much intriguing talent there. But I have even more question marks about finding that north star than I do for Houston. Like Jeremy Grant is a little bit too old to really feature as a cornerstone in this kind of conversation. We've talked on previous episodes about whether they're going to end up trading him. I still don't think they should, because you're hoping for someone to pan out like he does. But that's not really the most exciting, unquestioned centerpiece of a rebuild, because other than that, you're looking at a bunch of young, unproven guys like Killian hay Is. Sure there's been a lot of upside in these brief spurts that we've been able to see him play. Sadique Bay looks like he could be a three and D standout. You and I both love Isaiah Stewart for the energy that he brings on the defensive end. Save and Lee is intriguing. Sako Dumbuya is intriguing, but just this raw ball of potential and is he even still intriguing? I'm arguing, I think, I think given the youth, Yeah, but like among those maybe one or two hits, but it's hard to it's hard to have any confidence that that core is going to emerge with that external additions, I could see a reason to be pessimistic. And so maybe I'll just get to ie Pistons at five and so we we actually inverse them. So it's just a good we can talk about these two teams in some I look at the Pistons and they've just given themselves some rock solid depth and then just enough bites at the apple where Killian Hayes is probably the closest they come to having a north star because Sadiq Bay three and D with extra ball skills, just not someone who's gonna set up your offense. And so I think Killian Hayes is more likely to be that guy. And what we've seen from him in very limited sample size, by the way, because he was injured for most of this year, I'm still recording, and since coming back from injury, he is shooting roughly fifty percent on his jumpers, which is you know, you're looking at his efficiency and it's okay, it's it's in the toilet right now, but there are signs that it will be better. The other thing that I really look towards is you have four rookies that are in the rotation right now that kind of along in the rotation. I know Saban Lee kind of got there by virtue of oh, you were so banged up. Still having him, having Isaiah Stewart, Sadique Bag and Killean Hayes hitting on those guys immediately, it also gives me faith that, oh, this front office, will you know, Troy Reaver will do well when they actually pick in the top five or whatever it ends up being this year. I do get the concerns, and I agree with you on Jeremy Grant. He seems like more of a temporary detour, but a competent one. And yet you know, look at they have Josh Jackson too, and then Grant and Mason Pumley fall into just like the solid veteran presence's role roles. So I don't know, there's clearly not the closest on this list to getting a north Star, and they definitely do not. I wouldn't say for sure that they have one, but I think they've kind of engendered enough confidence with the play that they've gotten out of some of their guys. How they did this year in finding rookies who can play where I think that their future is going to be brighter than Orlandos, which I look at them and they're in the early stages of a rebuild that still kind of wants for a direction, and I'm not going to fault them for it because I think that moving Vouchovitch Gordon Fournier was the right call. I do think it's funny that they basically had to give well, they did give Ken Burche to Toronto for free by releasing him so that Steve Clifford had to play Mobamba. Wendell Carter Jr. It's a mismash of stuff right now. You know Jonathan Isaac and Marquel Faults. Isaac is the closest they come. I think we can both agree to that guiding light for rebuild. What is he on offense? Is he just going to be a play finisher his entire career? And if so, can he be there their directional cornerstone? And this has nothing to save all the injuries that he's had. Faults, maybe he's the league average point guard, but he's yet to show that he can be the you know, even if you trust that his midrange jumper will be fine, that his street throw shooting is good. Great. What he can give you positionally on defense awesome. He's not just that like pure or four general And I think that kind of taps they're sealing there, and then you look at their other options. It comes down to or is it Kolanthony, is it Wendel Carter Jr. Who's been interesting since joinning Orlando. It's not Chumo'keekei. He's going to be more three and D than not. And I think that, you know, just because they're starting out, maybe they'll get a good draft pick this year, like they're not. You know, I guess you have to trust that those bulls picks are going to turn into something special, and they're they're just in an iffy spot where everything feels like a mismatch right down to Tomobamba, where I don't know on this team. If you told me right now who's going to be on this team that's right now, right now on the roster in three years, I couldn't single out a single name to you. So here's here's my thing with these two teams though. It's like if we threw all of their players into a redraft pool and we were just trying to create the best franchise going forward for the future, Like what order would they come off the board? And I think that Jonathan Isaac might be the first pick, maybe Jeremy Grant, But after that, like I'm probably taking Foltz and Cole Anthony and Wendell Carter Junior before I'm taking guys on the Pistons, even Isaiah Stewart, I think. So, I don't think that I can take him high enough just given the role that he's going to fill. I mean, he's never going to be an initiator. He's not a floor spacer, like he's a great energy, big but that's not what you want as a centerpiece. So I just I look at the upside of Folts and Isaac and Anthony and Killian Hayes is the only one who's going to enter that conversation. But I don't like what I've seen from him thus far. Granted it's a really small sample, and obviously there's so much untapped potential there, but like we've seen more already from Cole Anthony, We've definitely seen more from Martel Foltz before he got hurt this season, where we were really excited about the growth he was already showing. So I just if you threw everyone into a pool, like I think, Orlando's guys come off the board so much quicker, and that to me was the tell. Like I struggled with where to place these two, but I was I was closer to bumping Orlando up to four than down to six in the end. That's interesting because I think that what you're saying kind of almost works against them, since when Isaac and Faults come back next year, are they going to be, you know, bad enough? Focusing on the right types of development with the other players, so they could find themselves stuck in the lower middle class of these I don't think they'll they want to never found itself in basketball purgatory. Come on now. But that's what I'm saying is I kind of trust Detroit will prioritize the development and we'll have at least two more top top draft choices, whereas Orlando, I feel like, because they have Isaac, because they have faults, those two aren't going to elevate you to being a fringe contender or this great playoff team, but they could make you, you know, over the course of an eighty two game season, let's say, thirty two to thirty seven, thirty two win team. That's I think that the front office showed enough conviction and moving into a full scale rebuild that it's not going to try to skip steps like that. The other thing that we're not talking about enough here and would make my I wouldn't say make my argument called bust, but it would definitely make it flimsy is they have those bulls picks top top four projective excuse me, this year and in twenty twenty three, there's a chance that this year's pick is a lot better than people were expecting. I think the assumption was going to be that the Bulls are going to make the play in and maybe they send like late teens, early twenties. They're not projected to be a play in right now. They're they're closer to being in this exercise that we're doing right now than not. And so if you get your own draft pick, plus if they if you what if you wind up in like the top seven or nine or something like with the Bulls pick this year, that does give them some some juice there. I guess I'm not placing enough weight into that, but I just look at them and think that this feels like a one time thing where if they're going to draft that cornerstone, it needs to happen this season. Yeah, I get your argument. I think I'm just putting a little bit more stock in the guys who are already on the uster here who you haven't at number four. Oh, we're about to veer far apart from each other for the rest of this until number one. I think a number four I have the Cleveland Cavaliers. This was the four three two tier to me was really close. In general, I'm very intrigued by Colin Sexton by Darius Garland, who has improved astronomically throughout this sophomore season, And we talked about in the last episode that we're both very in on Colin Sexton's future as we are on Jared Allen's future. But beyond that, I don't know that I've seen enough offensive ability from Isaac Accorro to think he's going to be much more than a really good defender who's an offensive liability. I'm not sure the timeline really works with Larry Nance Jr. There's not too much to get excited about in the draft Coffers, So my having Cleveland at four is by no means an indictment of their future so much as being a little bit more intrigued by the incumbent piece on the other teams. So adding potentially a top lottery pick to a core of O co O Sexton Garland doesn't excite you. It does, absolutely, but no more than it's going to for the other teams. I just they have not the best players of the teams to come. But Darius Garland has kind of been a sneaky most improved player candidate this year when you look at his numbers and he's shooting almost forty percent on his pull up triples since roughly the beginning of March. I also tend to be higher on Colin Sexton than a lot of other people. The narrative that he just doesn't give their offense a big enough boost is absurd. I think people still view him as a point guard prospect. That's not point guarding, and that's just in reality, not what he's supposed to be doing. The Cavs aren't using him in that way, and he has improved his playmaking when you're looking at his decision making on drives for the most part, and he's an efficient score. It's not always going to be on ball stuff, but he's been a somewhat valuable crunch time weapon them this year. He is shooting above fifty percent inside the rhetting a good clip on his threes on high volume. He can fit alongside another ball dominator, and then I think a core is the real deal on defense, just someone who's going to be able to go up against the best way on the other team. I definitely agree that they need to find his offensive niche but let's let discount Chared Allen being here either, And so like if you yet another defensive anchor. I like this season even though their defense has fallen off their hot start, and I think you and I were marveling and celebrating it might have even declared their defensive success. And at the beginning of the season, for real, we were closer or wrong then closer to right. I think I would say I like that they forced turnovers without pauling a ton though. That just shows like there's some groundwork there. Add another pick to that, they're gonna have cap space this year. You say the timeline doesn't align with Larry NaNs. I don't know that it necessarily needs to, because they might be like kind of sort of good next season. And if it doesn't align, this isn't Kevin Love's salary. You can just have Larry Nance on the roster. And because he can play three positions at this point, where Kevin Love can really only play one, let's say one point Yeah, because also he's injured a bunch. That was a good heads up there. I just feel like that that almost improves your team and gives you that optionality. So I am. I wouldn't say I'm uber excited about what's going on in Cleveland. These teams are here all bad for a reason, and then you have some tough decisions coming up. Colin Sexton's extension knowledgeable. They have to pay Jared Allen and restrict to free agency. But they have a nicer base than they get credit for. And while I would say that their top end talent is not as good as the team that I put because I had them at number three in case that wasn't clear, the team that I had at number four was Minnesota because Karl Anthony Towns is the best player from any of the teams that we will talk about. In my opinion, I think the only player that might have a case. Yeah, the only player that kind of has a case, I think would be Shay and his sample is going to be small because he's dealing with Planner pacitists, but he's also dealing with the thunder. Not wanting to win is a reason why I think that they're giving him so much time off, so that helps. And this is my Minnesota thing here, and I also when you look at like the crux of their roster, I'll call it Towns McDaniels. At the form McDaniel's is really good on defense. Diannelo Russell Malik Beasley when he's healthy and nfe Edwards with the strides that he's made. If he improves his shot selection, it just gets better. I'll say more awareness defensively. Maybe he still gets killed off like on the ball, but if you can be more aware off the ball, I think that helps him. Those five players make a ton of sense if you have to play together this season because of injuries, and there's a lot of sensibility there. I think we get to the point, though, where where are they going from here? They have that top three protective pick that's ow to Golden State. If that doesn't convey they're in a good spot. If they want to make another trade or draft the next guy, that's it, though, that's the move that because they don't they're not gonna have cap space. And if you do send this pick out, how patient is comment the town is going to be. I'm not this isn't a compliment. I'm not one of those people that's looking for stars to leave small markets. I want to make that clear. But pre agency there's a thing. And Karl Anthony Towns has three years left on his contract, and so if the Wolves aren't good by the end of the next season. It becomes a discussion to where maybe you have a year left before it's a real problem. That's a really iffy timeline. And when if you could tell me that they were going to keep this year's pick, I might consider putting them above Cleveland. But because there's they have a better chance of sending it out than not, it's that's a real concern. And then even if you have it, it does come back to, Okay, well, how good does this incoming rookie have to be? And did you was the trade for Danzel Russell still the right call where I think he's a great fit next to Towns offensively and people. You know, I was probably thought he was overrated during his All Star campaign in Brooklyn. Not I almost feel like he's underrated because he's a good pick and role player who can hit shots off the dribble that's never not a player who's going to add value. Still is this, like you do you have the skeleton of a good defensive roster when when you look at the five I just named, Jane McDaniels, is the loan that positive defensive player of that bunch? I don't know that I love Ricky Rubio for them. I like that they've been bringing They brought Delo off the bench and they have Rubio starting that that's great. I just there is I talked about Houston having a ton left to chance. Minnesota doesn't have as much left to chance, but they've already made decisions that I think works against their outlook. So I actually had Minnesota at number two. Again, I felt like four to three and two in this tier, we're all really close together. But the point that you made about the five core pieces not having logged a single minute together is kind of what empowered me to put them that high, because ultimately Towns is the best player on any of these seven teams, and I don't think it's particularly close. Like sure you can talk about Shay Gil just Alexander, Like maybe you want to throw Daron Fox into the mix or Colin Sexton eventually, like Towns is an established all NBA talent. He's had a terrible string of bad luck both on and off the court, but when he is healthy and in the right mental space and available, like he is so phenomenally talented on the offensive end, that he is just an absolute, one hundred percent certain centerpiece, which other teams just can't say yet, like he has carried Minnesota into the playoff picture before in the Western Conference. The other thing here is is I'm just totally buying the improvement that we've already seen from Anthony Edwards. You talk about him needing to continue improving. Yeah, and I've owned up to just how wrong I was going into the draft on a number of occasions, So I don't really feel the need to do that anymore. I'm just excited about what he's going to do. Like, go ahead, I'm just gonna remind you should because I was so wrong. I was so wrong. But like the ability for him to show this much growth in an impossible situation as a rookie where he's being tasked with way too much offensive responsibility and to improve his shot selection and to work his way into that fourth quarter crunch time rotation and look good doing it and be more attuned to where he should be on the defensive end. Like there is nothing that we've seen from him in the last month and a half two months that indicates he is not going to be an all NBA talent down the road. So like, those two players alone get me more excited than I can be about Cleveland despite maybe they're being more infrastructure for future growth, and then we can still throw in De'angelo Russell and Malik Beasley, who just haven't been available enough in conjunction with those more centerpieces to really know what they're going to look like together. So even if they do have that number, that top three pick convey to the Golden State Warriors, even if they don't have other guaranteed avenues to outside star caliber talent, what's already there is so intriguing, more so than what's there in any of these other situations. If you told me that Karl Anthony Town's is going to be on the Timberwolves two years from now, two and a half years from now, that I'm not factorating in this season, if you say he's gonna be in Minnesota during the final year of his contract or we'll have signed an extension, I would vault him up to number two on this lift without argument. And I can't like, I'm not gonna ride push back. It's just you have more faith I think in them keeping this cord together than I do, because they've missed so many chances. And look, maybe they're good enough soon enough to where this isn't even an issue. I'm not saying Towns his future is an issue now. As disappointing as that probably comes to Phoenix and Golden State fans, I don't think it's an issue now. He could request a trade this offseason, and if I'm Minnesota, I wouldn't know the whole team control over a player out of I'm not doing it. He has three years left on his deal, like I'm gonna I'm gonna try and salvage it. I just there's been so many iterations here and they've just yet to be good, save for one season with him. I don't the faith in it. But if you told me say he's go ahead, go ahead, Oh I just if you, I'm just reiterating. If you tell me that he's going to be on the timber Wolves in the final year of his deal, I'll absolutely vault them to number two on this list. Yeah. I mean, it's it's been such an incredible one eighty on Anthony Edwards for me, and I acknowledge that. But like now that I'm seeing what we've been seeing over the last two months from him Minnesota to me, feels like next year it could be a lot like the Dallas Mavericks were last season, where they're able to skip a number of steps and like put themselves in position to not just make the playoffs, but to put a scare into one of the contenders in the first round. I think there's that much incumbent talent they're already. I think that's fair. So am I right to then assume that your number three, since you're the Wolves at two, is Sacramento? You are correct? I had them at number two. Job. Yeah, but if you want to do you want to rip on the Kings or do you want me to rip on the Kings? Similar to how you want the guarantee that Karl Anthony Towns is going to be there, I need a guarantee that Rashaun Holmes is going to be there. And that's an evening that we're talking about him in that it is what tremendous growth we've seen. But yeah, I mean, like Karl Anthony Towns is under contract from multiple seasons and has shown no indication that he is going to ask for a trade. I actually have trouble believing that he will just given what we know about him personally. Rashaun Holmes is an impending free agent. Yes, he's an impending restricted free agent, but he is going to have a lot of money thrown at him this offseason during a time at which a lot of teams have money that they were setting aside for guys like Janisan Dakumbo who are no longer available. So I think he's just going to get a ton of money. I don't know if Sacramento is going to match, but even if they do, like the core is still him Tyrese Haliburton, Diaron Fox, and then Buddy Healed if you want to include him. Like even those, even those four names together to me, don't stack up against Minnesota's incumbents. Sacramento probably is more of an avenue to acquiring more talent via free agency and the draft because they have less salary committed to this incumbent core. But I just don't know that. I guess that's not true once Fox's extension kicks in. But yeah, I just I don't know that I see quite as much upside even if Holmes is back. And again that's as is the case with all of these teams in his tier. I'm talking Cleveland, Sacramento, Minnesota. That's not a negative. Like I still think we should feel very solidly about Sacramento's future. I just don't see the Kings immediately making that jump into like maybe winning a first round playoff series. Conversation. Now, I'm with you, and I put them at number two, and I acknowledge when I actually I actually wrote about this topic, I acknowledge it was extremely high risk. They have to move on to keep Rashawn Holmes, which is the big that's the risk here because I think we both agree with Shawn Holmes needs to be here for them to feel that good about the future. They can move someone. Maybe it's Barnes, maybe it's Puddy Healed, but they have to maybe it's Marvin Bagley. I don't know if his salary alone would be enough. I didn't do that math, but Holmes is going to be an early bird unrestricted free agent, and they need cap space to resign him because I assume he's going to get more than the league average salary, which this season was around ten million. I assume he's going to get more than that. If he doesn't, I just want to be on the records saying wow. And I'm just you know, if he comes back and you're looking at Haliburton, Holmes dearon Fox obviously, and you have Dlan right solid backup point guard. Now you do need to find a wing even if Barnes is coming back. I don't know that Buddy Healed should be long for this team. You have Haliburton, you have Fox, and Healed is I think he's not redundant, but I think he is excess when you don't have When he can't play and defend wing spots, you still need to find that guy Fox. I also he might be the second or third best player of any that's on any of these teams, and that's also why I have him as high. He's averaging basically twenty nine point seven assists and two steals while hitting almost fifty eight percent of his twos since the beginning of sin since just before the All Star Break. He's not he has not proven that he's a good three point shooter, but he's getting to the line in a decent clip and he's shooting better than forty percent on step back freeze this year, and that's on fifty plus attempts, by the way, so this isn't just him taking the occasional step back three. What Haliburton has done just all around solid. I can't say enough about him and he just name it anything. And the thing that I love is defenses. Almost seemed surprised when he hits these shots off the dribble because he has a little bit of that guial in him that you don't really sense. I guess all the time. So having two cornerstones in itself, even if for Shawn Holmes is not there, that does give them a leg up over most of the teams on this list, because I don't know what doesn't get them the legs over Minnesota though, Like if we're calling Haliburton a corner stone, we have to call Edwards one. Yes, but I'm factoring in the uncertainty that's surrounding towns for me doesn't apply to Deann Fox here. And I do think that, you know, Sacramento's supporting cast seems to make a little bit more sense where Harrison Barnes is just gonna fit with whatever they do. Now here's the other risk with Sacramento. Their future could be set back if they decided to tear it down. They were a team that people were wondering Willie Trader Shawn Holmes at the trade deadline, they definitely shopped or at least took offers on Harrison Barnes. Buddy heeled has just been so up and down for them. I could see them, you know, willingly taking a step back and just wanting to you know, the only untouchable players on this roster, or I won't say untouchable, I think the only two players on this roster that you can guarantee will be in Sacramento next year, Dearon Fox and Tyrese Halibert. And so there's the risk, but just the top of it, if you bring back for Shawn Holmes, and I would for her to see him keep Harrison Barnes in that scenario, even though he's on the older side. That's just a really nice four player base to work with. And they're gonna have another good pick, high pick this year. So there's that that's a landmine one for me. I think it speaks more so my love of Daron Fox and Tyres Albert and then it does to my faith in the Kings. And look, if you tell me that Loloke Walt is still gonna be the head coach YO a year from now, two years from now, I'm gonna I'm not gonna feel good about this pick whatsoever. It's kind of unbelievable that Marvin Bagley doesn't even factor into this conversation. Was a Bay believer after his rookie year. You want to talk about me being wrong about players. I tried to be like ahead of the curve and separate him from the He's more than the Luca Dontag footnote. It doesn't look great. I know he's been injured, but even when he's been on the court a lot of times, it's what position to see on defense? I have no idea still, and so I don't either. I do think what's interesting about this team is that wait, I don't want to say wasting, because we're still so kind of students. He's easy, young, but using the pick on Marvin Badley it sucks right now, but it hasn't suffocated them because you have Fox and Haliburt. Now, if they didn't have Haliburton, think about how much different their trajectory looks during this conversation, way worse. And that's the other thing here is that we're talking about Minnesota and Sacramento like we can very well be on the cusp of another two decade playoff droute for either of these franchises just based on the history. I mean, is it really it'd be so it would be a four decade playoff route at that point for Sacramento. Is what you're saying, wouldn't be great? Wouldn't be But I think, yeah, number one was obvious, right, Yeah, the Chicago Bulls exactly. I was gonna go at the Atlanta Hawks and thought better of it because that implies that they're bad. I was gonna say the Knicks too, but we can't do that. It's it's okay these habits, right, Uh, it's okay. See there's should we move on? I mean we basically can't. I mean, the argument's pretty obvious, Like shay Gil, just Alexander is an obvious cornerstone. You you can't help but be intrigued by lu Dort, by Darius Baisley, by Moses Brown, by the ball of potential that is Alexei Pokushevski. They could have as many as thirty four draft picks through twenty twenty seven. Seventeen of those could be first round picks. Like case closed, Are you gonna cite me for that? Or how did you write about this? The thing that's interesting for them, is I think you could come into you could be a little bit worried if you're looking at I mean, we know how you feel about Polkashevski, but they don't have the second guy right now. Ludort is fantastic. Is he the second best player on a contender? Probably, he's a great complimentary figure on a contender. That's not going to be more than that. And so now you're looking at is it going to be Pokashevski. I will say, let's say TVD and that might even be a little bit generous because he weighs like ninety pounds, soaking wet. Yeah, you have Tayo Maladone like Dat's. I don't know if he's going to be that guy. Darry's basically been playing better of late, but I don't think he's going to be that guy. Al Horford could be that guy, but he won't be in Oklahoma's any next season. I can only assume that they're going to get multiple first round picks for him based off there Sam Presty's track record, So there's the element of mystery there. However, they have their own pick this year, which is going to be a good pick. And what if they get like, what if Houston sends them the fifth pick. They have a forty seven point nine percent chance Houston of landing the fifth pick if they finished with the league's worst record, which they probably will, that like that could happen. I'm not saying it will. They could keep their pick. The odds would be slightly in the favor of them keeping the pick. But imagine the thunder going into this draft class draft class, excuse me, with two picks in the top five, and yes, there's a chance that THEIRS would drop out of the top five, and understand that scenario is on the table though, and they're going to have I would estimate at least one they would have to get kind of burned twice where Houston doesn't lose, like doesn't you know it falls the protecting range, even though that's statistically them, it's likely, and then they fall back on their odds. So well, I guess they have odds right now with falling outside the top five, but I imagine those odds will be up by the end of the season. We'll see who wins the Tanking Bowl between you know, Detroit Orlando or Detroit Orlando. Okay, see all in there, but all those other first round picks, if they want to, they can expedite this process the next star. I know this isn't the market that you would typically do it in, but they could join the Bradley Beal sweep stakes and still have a ton of first round picks left over after they got Bradley Beal. And the other thing why I'm optimistic and maybe this is where people might veer. Perhaps they're willing to make a case for Minnesota just because Karl Anthony Towns less of a two way player than Shay, but his superstardom is definitely more entrenched. I'm all the way in on h Gilga, Alexander. I know you know this that, but I'm going to relay it to our listeners. Stephen Curry, Kevin Durant and Nikolio Kitsch are the only other players in the league averaging over twenty points and five assists while shooting matching SGA's efficiency inside the arc and from beyond. He's also leads the league in unassisted field goals made. That's how tough his role is. The percent of his unassisted field goals made excuse me, eighty seven percent of his shots go on assistant the highest market in the league among four hundred and thirty three players who have appeared in at least fifteen games this year. That's just showing like he's not benefiting from the second guy or an alpha guy anymore. I'm all the way in on him. Things do start to get iffy if they don't want to give him max money because he's extension eligible. I would give him the max money. If they don't view him as that player, then maybe things change. But I absolutely think he's that player. I don't know where he lands. I do not think he will be the guy who's gonna defend the other team's best player at the other side of the ball unless they're actually guard sized. I could see him being over matched against bigger twos and actual wings. But still, when you just look at what he's been able to do for his scoring in the role that he's in, and for even you know, improving as a playmaker, I think that's absolutely huge because he I would say he's the second best player or second best building block behind Towns among all these teams. As much as I love the Iron Fox, I wholeheartedly agree with all of that. I think the Thunder would be foolish not to pay him, especially considering how much of the roster is going to be comprised of guys on rookie scale contracts for the foreseeable future. So my follow up question to you before we move on too smail back questions. Let's say that Shay Gildis Alexander decides to retire this offseason, just done playing basketball, he's no longer interested in the sport. Would you still have the Thunder at number one in this conversation? Because I think I would just given the ridiculous number of first round picks and second round picks in the coffers and they still have those intriguing supporting cast pieces that we've already talked about, I would not take the Thunder one. I'd probably take the Kings, and I might even ride your Timberwolve's bandwagon a little bit. I just you would have to, you know, do you believe they would have to have like do you believe Moses Brown would be like a big time like? Do they have if they didn't have, said Alexander, you have to believe that all these other guys are at least going to be above replacement level of players. I mean know lou Dort will be there, but you would have to have a lot of faith in Pokashevsky, Moses Brown, Darius Baseley, malot Own. Yeah, but you just have so many swings to aim for the fences with all those draft picks. Here's an interesting question. So say you have Shay though, and now you're gonna pay him max money. Do you get to a point where you're consolidate I mean, you're gonna have to consolidate some of them, but do you see them within the next let's say, by the twenty twenty three draft, taking a bigger swing. I won't say a home run, but maybe try and aim for a triple or No, do you think that they're going to be very much We're gonna draft and develop, because it does get I understand the reality of the market they plan, but it does get a little bit. Once you give out that first max contract, there is that bit of urgency, and so they have another year before Gildas Alexander is playing at that type of a price point. I don't think it's even about the sense of urgency so much is the fact that roster sizes are limited and you cannot allocate that many roster spots to first and second round rookies, so I think they have to consolidate no matter what. I would be shocked if the thunder weren't primary players. Whenever the next superstar becomes obviously available, whether that's Bradley Beal or someone else whose name we just aren't in tune with right now, whoever that may be, regardless of how he seems to fit on the roster, I think that the core here is so malleable and they have so many assets that they would be doing themselves a disservice not to be positioning themselves as a potential favorite to land whatever star player it's going to be. Services now, you said something that made me think, which I think it's somewhat relevant, because if they are going to consolidate, there needs to be that talent available aside from Bradley Beal, who is the other star. Within the next two years or so, you could see asking for a trade being on the auction block. I don't know that we've ever been in this position, at least recently, where you couldn't necessarily identify it. Maybe some people would point to Steph because they'll be a free agent after next season as of now, but I don't see him being the type of player who would want to ask for a trade after this year. And two, I don't. I actually just don't see him leaving Toronto. I couldn't see him leaving Golden State at all. Yeah, I just I have no I have no clue. I mean, I guess, like, could you see Ben Simmons. Is that a possibility you use Ben Simmons. I could see the Sixers using Ben Simmons to try and acquire the next star that comes up. I don't think he becomes just the next guy because at that point, Yeah, yeah, I don't. I don't have any answers. I think the answer might be one of the young guys who's still rising. I would say it's probably Towns. If I had to pick one, it could be dear Fox. He has five years left on his deal after this one. I don't has three years. But that's my point is that that might be how far away we are from two years might be how far away we are from this situation. Just food for thought for anyone who thinks that, oh, okay, see the Pelicans are gonna be able to cash in these there's always something unexpected, but just trying to identify it right now, you really have to take some leaps in logic to find someone else. Okay, se should just dangle a first round pick for Grant Thriller right now. I'm just gonna move on to this mail bag here because we have a bunch of questions. Let's start with of the ones that I have. Let's go with Maya roth Bomb because he asked a question every single week. Is Jake Crowder the main reason the Heat are much worse this year? And how much is he really impacting the suns? I don't think Jay Crowder is the main reason the Heat's offense has been I don't want to say dog shit, but it hasn't been great because he's not going to be someone who has some put pressure on the rim. I think a healthy old adepod for them. But the way that Jake Crowder was hitting threes, and given how much they've just been searching for answers at that four spot all year, I would argue that, yeah, he's probably the primary reason of reasons that can be sort of distributed fairly evenly that his loss is the biggest And I don't know, I was gonna say, I don't know, we know why they didn't pay him. I still would have paid him, because that's if if all he cost was the mid level. You're going to tell me that if you want a cap space, you couldn't find a taker for Jay Crowder this summer. I'll call BS on that. I agree. I think that they would have been better off for taining you. I don't know that it's the primary reason. I kind of feel like the biggest reason is that they bought into their own success a little bit too much and weren't looking to make upgrades that were needed, in part because of what they had just done, and in part because they were still preserving cap space for the inevitable Janisan the Dakumba pursuit that didn't end up happening, Like if you look at the guard rotation in particular, I think that's what's been the toughest to overcome. Because Goran Dragic has not been the player that he was last season. Kendrick Nunn has been scoring more efficiently, he's still not much of a playmaker. Tyler Hero has not taken that next step that's so many expected after his great performance in the playoff bubble so all of those in conjunction with each other has left the Heat with a major void that could have been filled had they treated it with more urgency and not thought like, hey, Hero is going to be this superstar as a sophomore, Nune is a very useful rotation piece, and Dragic is just going to continue defying time. None of those have happened. Yeah, and they've dealt with they had COVID and just the injury availability. For sure, I would still say that they're probably a much better team to this point of the season, or a least, let's say, before the trade deadline whatever, if they had Jay Crowder. And for as to what Jake Crowder does for the Suns, a ton of stuff. I mean his three point shooting, it can come and go, but it's been fine this year. He can be a little bit too adventurous on offense, but like you live with that, not because of the not because all the other you know, he gives you options on defense, He's a pretty he's a pretty good health defender. Gives you the ability to cover all sorts of assigments, whether you have eaten at the five sharts at the five, he can be a helper and protector himself. He's not bad in that regard, but on offense, like he can make some sneaky passes and there are going to be times where he can elude some guys when he does have the ball in his hands if he's being chased off the three point line. So he fills a lot of gaps for you. And there's also just this idea that he can be plugged into whatever role they need as well, because they've they've started him, they've had him come off the bench. I would advocate that he just needs to start when you look at the makeup of the rest of their starters, but he's just been fantastic for them and to get him for the mid level and that's why I've been firmly in the camp of if you took Chris Paul off this team right now, is this still the best supporting cast that Devin Booker has had. And to me, the answers, yes, I know, he Rubio and Uber last year, but having Jay Crowder, this version of Michael Bridges, even fines like Tory Craig has been huge for them too, so and Jay Crowder just gives you the on defense positionally probably could defend four different positions, everyone with point guards at this point. I know you don't necesarily want him going up against centers, but if you just need to kind of mix and match and you're gonna switch at points, or if you're going to face the Lakers in the playoffs, that's one player that you can say, hey, we'll throw him on anthy Davis. Must say he's gonna stop Anthony Davis, and you'd probably prefer Aton on him. But if the Lakers are playing with two bigs, you can put Jay Crowder on Anthy Davis, or he's someone who can cover the other big. You can alwast try it out, whether it's on Da Drummond or Mark Gasol, who seems wildly unhappy in Los Angeles at the moment. I really like Jay Crowder, and that's why I think, just for what he cost and knowing that he could have moved him if they really needed cat space in twenty twenty one free agency, I do think that he's the biggest reason they're in this situation. He's not, he doesn't have a monopoly on it. But of all the reasons you just listed, there were some that were just unavoidable. This one was completely avoidable for sure. I think the only on the Sun's points. The only thing I would follow up on is that if you're talking about the supporting cast without Chris Paul, I think you can include an improved version of DeAndre Aiden there as well, because he and Paul have chafed playing style. Why is a bit and if Paul is not there, the team is worse. But Aiden probably has a more prominent role and plays with more confidence. So that's that's me just further agreeing with you. We have another heat question that I want to get to. Put it a duh? Where is it? What is holding back bam at a baio? And do you think it can be overcome? Comes from Jordan Tyler. What is he being held back? I have an answer if you would like me to, yeah, because I immediately am like a little put off by the question just because this is a guy playing at like a fringe all NBA level already. There's he has the like mini pull up jumper, baby pull up jumper, whatever you want to call it now, which is huge. He needs to be more aggressive as a score like there are if you're not gonna end up like passing the ball on those dribble handoffs, attack the basket more, be no at least when to be more of a score, they're too I think there are too many games when you look at his game logs, he ended up with like twelve shots eleven shots under double digit shots. I think he needs that aggressive aggression. And I do think that you want him to have a three pointer. I'm not saying he needs to be high volume, but being able to space from the corners, being able to hit some shots from above the break even it would be huge for their offense. And so I think he's he is a fringe All NBA player if you want him to be that All NBA player, if you want him to be the fringe MVP candidate, he still has another level that he can I think he can reach it offensively. I would argue he also needs to get there when you're looking at just a course Miami's following right now. That other star is not coming into agency this summer because there just aren't any stars and free agency basically this summer. And you know, Kyle Lowry's interesting, so I get you know, if you've got him, or even if you're able to poach Mike Conley from the Jazz. Still his being more aggressive on offense as a score because he's a fantastic passer and I'm not just talking about someone who runs fast breaks. He can run the offense in the half court. I think he needs to just be another Kevin Lucas says in the Chatty has another few levels. I would agree, there's just you can't have, especially now that the Oldiepo's injured and it seems like they acquired him in part to fill that role. Jimmy Butler just can't be the guy that's going to put the consistent, relentless pressure on the defense. And yeah, you can turn to someone like a Kendrick Nunn or draw Jet when he's healthy in spurts, like bam Adebayo is a star, and I think he needs to remember that more. I don't know if this is just a mindset issue, because I think he's talented enough to do it. We've seen bam Adebio put the ball on the floor. You can face up and try and get around dudes. Yeah, I think my initial reaction was just the way the question is phrased, just because like holding him back has such a negative connotation to me, and it doesn't feel like he's held back. I agree that he still has more levels to get to. I wonder, though, if it is in the best in the best interest of the Heat for him to fill that kind of role. Like I'm just I'm looking at this season splits. He's averaging one point six more points per game in losses than he is in wins. He's shooting more in losses than he is in wins. Come when he's playing without Jimmy Butler, for sure, I mean, context absolutely matters there. But like I don't know, given his mentality, which is not that of a score first player, He's very much one of those guys who wants to make the right plays in any and every situation, I don't know that I want him to adopt like that much of an aggressive scorers mentality. I think he could stand to continue improving the range, to continue getting more comfortable with those counters so that he can fill that tops scoring role much in the way that like Lebron, James is not a score first and foremost, but he has become one of the most dominant scorers in NBA history. Like to a lesser extent, I want to see like something like that from BAM where he's not necessarily changing his entire approach so much as what he's able to do when those possessions come to him. I don't know what's a matter of changing his approach as recognizing one to flip a switch, and let's even just non Jimmy Butler minutes, then let's call it. They need him to be more of a scorer. And the offense is I mean, they're twenty fourth and offense overall per possession this season, it hasn't been great. They need him during the Jimmy Butler minutes they're offensive. Writing his one ten point three, which is the thirty eight percentile this year like those, he needs to be able to turn that on more. And maybe it's maybe just expanding his range even more would be enough, because three is worth more than two. But then, like I still just think the shot volume needs to come up more consistently, regardless of what type of shots he's taking, and in all likelihood will continue to see that as the heat continue to develop around him. Just the flow of the offense will naturally naturally lead itself to more shot at times. So I think we're pretty close to agreeing and just kind of saying things in different ways. So we have three Knicks questions. One comes from long time question ask or loyal question asking her Noah Odage, and he asked, why are the Knicks the best team in the East, and how like wese Julius Randall the nab an all MBA spot the first part of that question, the Nicks is the best team the league. So we're just not even gonna answer that or entertain it. He the Julius random question is interesting, and I also just posed this as a joke in the replies. I don't know if you saw in our mailbag solicitation, but would you prefer twenty twelve twenty thirteen Carmelo Anthony or twenty twenty twenty one Julius Randall? So those two, I'm gonna throw those two, take it wherever you want those twos to you, And we have another Knicks one that's more macro after it. I think I'm hesitantly still taking that Carmelo Anthony's season, Like if you compare the raw numbers, maybe you're taking Julius Randall. But like even in the last eight years, the NBA has evolved a lot where it's hard to make those straight up per game number comparisons to each other, or even per minute, just because the way offenses approached the game has shifted. Like Anthony during that twenty twelve thirteen season, scored twenty eight point seven points per game, which led the NBA. He was more willing to play the four that season than he added in previous years. He was a deadly long range shooter who commanded so much respect that I think we saw a lot of the members of that Knicks team reach higher levels. We're talking about j R. Smith, Raymond Felt and Tyson Chandler, Quentin Richardson, Jason Kidd, Kenyan Mardin, Like these were guys who were at stages in their careers where they probably shouldn't have performed quite like they did during what was probably the last like magical Knicks season. And I'm not sure that we've seen Randall elevate those around him to quite the same extent. He has been phenomenal this season. This is to take absolutely nothing away from him, but that was like peak Carmelo Anthony, and we're talking about a guy who's going to be in the Hall of Fame discussion when he retires. Yeah, I was just looking at it from a single season. The argument I think would be Randall's playmaking and Noah's actually in the room, So no, if you have an opinion on this, could throw that in the chat. But or you can speak if you would like to speak. We will let anyone speak who wants to that. That's just the argument that he has to get to you know, he is just the fact that he's aged twenty six for Melo twenty twelve, twenty thirteen was age twenty eight, like maybe that gives you hope that he could have get above that. But I'm mostly in lockstep with you there the All NBA questions a little bit. And also I think you could probably argue, I know that Nick's had a lot of defensive brit that year. I would probably say that Julius Randall has been better defensively this year by a fairly wide margin than Mellow was that year, So that would be some food for thought. I think it might be an actual question, though its close. It's definitely close. What do you where are your thoughts on him being All NBA this year. I don't think he's quite there. They're just I mean, maybe it depends on how much volume is going to be rewarded. I think you also can look at so what let's look at the no brainer forwards. Kauai is gonna make it, Jest is gonna make it. Lebron's gonna make it. I would assume he makes it. But at this point, yeah, because he'll play again, So Lebron will make it, whether or not you maybe you disagree with that because of sample size. Lebron's gonna make it. So it's three of six forward spots, and I would assume that Tatum probably makes it is he feels like more of a lock than some people are probably gonna argue that Randall has been better than Jayson Tatum. I haven't done enough of like a dive into that. Don Chich will qualify as a guard. Kevin Durant probably won't play enough. So there, Jimmy Butler is going to be up there. Jimmy Butler will be up there. Is there is a Zion. Zion's gonna be up there too. I don't know that he's Is he a no brainer pick over Randall? I don't. I don't think so. I'm trying to name. I'm at a bio center. There'll be a center. So never mind Paul George. Yeah, I mean absolutely Paul George unless he qualifies for the for the guard spot. I mean, oh yeah. I agree with what Noah just said in the chat, which is that Randall should get some votes, but it will be extremely surprising if he does. I assume makes it. I think he'll even get some MVP votes. I would not be surprised if Randall was getting a couple like back of the ballot votes and showed up just enough to get some of the MVP shares. Yeah, that's I think that's that's probably fair enough. I will say. What's interesting is that there are sixteen players averaging over twenty points and five assist per game this year. Randall ranks eighth and value over replacement player, and the only forwards in front of him are Butler, will throw there and Yannis. In TPA, which I was finally able to update again this morning, Randall is thirteenth. The only fowards ahead of him are Zion at eleven, Jimmy Butler at nine, Kawhi Leonard at eight, Lebron at seven, and Jannis at three. It's really such a mess when you're looking at the which is why I was stumbling through it before because of all the time that all these players have missed, where it's like, you know, is someone not going to vote for Kawhi because of the stretch that he just missed? Is someone not going to vote for Lebron because of his castrain? It's possible if I had, if you had to pegged at a percentage chance that Randall makes an All NBA team this year. I think there's like a thirty percent chance. I'll say, I'll say like, I'll say fifty percent that he gets third team. Noah's at thirty five to forty percent. When did I become the optimistic Knicks tape deliverer? When did that happen? When were you not uh pre up their seats? Here is the other Knicks question we have comes from Kaide Hornack. Are the Knicks back? Will they continue to be a legitimate playoff team moving forwarders their success this season is just a fluke. I think he's ripping off the fact that there are a lot of people nationally who have pointed out that Knicks fans are being insufferable in a year where all these other teams have not enjoyed as good health as the Knicks. Have, even though they had guys miss miss games, Derek Rose out Berks, Mitchell Robinson's probably out for the year. Still, they haven't gone through it as much as other teams. I'm curious as to your thoughts. I think I think they're here to stay in the playoff picture. I think it's it'll be tougher for them to get into the title conversation. I'm not sure that the upside is there right now for that, but I would be pretty surprised if they weren't a mainstay in the Eastern Conference playoff picture, just because of the pieces that they already have in place. You know, if Julius Randall is their long term we've seen enough from RJ. Barrett to believe that he can be a centerpiece on a good team. There's still intriguing talent out there in the form of Mitchell Robinson and Obie Toppin, and I'll include Emmanuel Quickly there as well. But even beyond that, just Tom Thibeteau has changed the infrastructure for this team and established a culture that isn't about the losing that the Knicks have enjoyed for the last decade or so. Like this is a better team it has better defensive principles, it's more set up for long term success, and it still plays in New York, which I think matters in free agency. It matters when players are requesting trades. We already saw like who knows when Anthony Davis was requesting a trade, like how much he really included the Knicks on his wish list, But they were on it despite still being in that tumultuous period of recent history, and now that they're back in the playoff picture, that appeal is only going to grow. Yeah, I do think there's actual staying power here. The issue I have is it could be tough to build off this season where I think they should still be if they run this group back, or if you still have Randall and RJ Barrett, Mitchell Robinson, you know, and keep at least I think you need to keep at least one of Reggie Bullock out works and Alans and lot of the years they've had, Well, where do you go? What's the elevation from here? Is it only free agency? Are you going to be able to draft and develop players? When that hasn't I would say it hasn't been the biggest commitment for them this season. What does it obi toppin turn into that matters Emmanuel Quickly? Can you get anything else out of Kevinnox? What do the picks become this season? You have Dallas and your own. So that's what worries me about this team, where I don't think that their success this year is a flash in the pan. I just don't know that they have the clearest path forward beyond RJ. Barrett is a is a star, and he might be so I want to make that clear, but there needs to be another level to that. Would I would argue the biggest thing they need to do is figure out the point guard position. It can't be Derek Rose, Alford Peyton, and even Immanuel Quickly just seems like more of that You've mentioned this before. It seems like more of the six man type guy. So that's something they need to address if they want to sort of reach that contention plane. But I think the very fact that we're talking about reaching the contention plane is an indication that they've already ascended to the level below that. And if you're gonna want to make the argument that this could be a one year thing, my guest then would just be that this offseason is is terrible for them. They lose all the guys that help them. Noel Burke's Bullock, and you know, let's say Mitchell Robinson, they keep him. He comes back, he's healthy, but he's not as good as we thought. Julius Randall falls off a little bit. But my main concerns are just where do you get that, let's say the third building block, because you have too and neither of them are all NBA evans at this point. But I would argue that it feels more for real than not. I'm in lockstep with you. Let's go to Oh, okay, this is interesting. MoU asked, how is Steph not the leader in the MVP race? The MVP race is just always so tricky because how much credit are we going to give to players who are on teams that aren't even in playoff position? Because ultimately, like Golden State, despite Steph's heroics, is thirty and thirty, which puts them in tenth place in the Western Conference as of recording, which would be enough for the play in tournament. But it's still in tenth place in the West. What he's done recently is just absolutely miraculous. I'm actually of the opinion that players who are that far down in the stand endings, if they are as impactful and important to the team as Steff is, should get more love in the MVP conversation. But it's just not how it works. It's hard enough for a guy who's in fifth place in a conference to win MVP, much less a guy in tenth. So for Steph to win MVP, like you have to discredit what Nikolai Yoka is doing on one of the front runners in the Western Conference and has been doing all season. You know, by every single advanced metric or catchall metric that you're going to look at, Yoka is having a historically impressive season. You know, there's been a lot of frustration among the Denver fan base that he hasn't received more national attention for what he's doing, and probably deservedly so because it should be a runaway at this point, given what he has done from start to finish this season. Again, that's not to discredit what Steff has done. The run that he is currently on is is a historic one. The scoring numbers that he's putting up on a nightly basis, the three pointers that he's hitting from all over the court to fight being subjected to a ridiculous amount of defensive attention because the supporting cast in Golden State is not sufficient. All of that is so impressive. It's also for a shorter span he's missed time. He hasn't been able to carry the Warriors through no fault of his own, into the top four in the West. Like I think that the answer there is like a fairly obvious one, even if Steph has been so good that we wanted to not be an obvious one. Yeah. And the other thing is, just as last season, I wasn't going to penalize Janice for the Bucks being good when he was off the floor because I actually think it's more impressive that you can raise the ceiling of a of a really good team to absolute greatness. I can't reward step for the flawed roster around him, just like it's I do agree that he there's that immense value there. It's it's a measurable and the Warriors would be absolutely crap without him. And we've seen it when when he hasn't played. We've seen it when he's just on the bench games that he has played. That's his argument though, because he's uplifting a team to fringe playoff contention that I guess would be like a bottom or a top let's say, top three or four lottery team. Is that better than yokis taking would probably be a fringe playoff team and making them a championship contender. I think the second is harder to do. I agree with you. It's similar to how it's more difficult to make the jump from being a good team to being a championship caliber team than it is being a bottom of the lottery team to being a playoff team. Let's go to This was an interesting question from Flipsy Tivens. Where do Dorry and Phinney Smith and Maxi Cleeland rank amongst the league's best three in D role players? Item like this is. This is tough because I'm not gonna We're not gonna rank all our favorite three D players, But so I looked up two numbers for them and Dorian Finney Smith. This one comes from a b ball index among years who've played at least a thousand minutes this season, and there are one ninety one of them. He ranks seventh in matchup difficulty. He's the one on the on Dallas who's going to defend the number one option by by quite a large margin. Like that's just what that's just what his job is going to be. That's huge, and he's someone that I think you can put. You know, you have Josh Richardson two, but he's still the one that's going to guard the higher uses guy more often than not, I think, because he yeah, he's bigger, taller, I mean, and so he's gonna give you just he probably defend. They both probably have like four position range, but you're probably going to trust Finny Smith going up against the wings more so than Josh Richardson. And for Kleiba, who might be one of the most mobile, he is one of the most mobile bigs in the league. That's someone that you can he's like he's in fact, he can do so well on the perminter. I think it's huge. But you look at just his numb and there are the only players who match his have a steel rate of at least one and block rate of at least two point five and are hitting as many three pointers per thirty six minutes as Maxi Kleiba And it's only two point three, so it's not some astronomical number. None of them are Biggs. It's Jeremy Grant, Michael Porter Junior, and Danny Green. So that's just a glimpse into their value from that perspective. Yeah. No, I you know, I haven't done enough research to really answer the question here about the best three d players in the league. I just tacko what you said. I mean, those those guys are both really important contributors to this Dallas team for what they do on both ends. And I agree that you would trust Finney Smith a little bit more on that wider range of matchups. But you know, it is such an important archetype that it feels like almost every team has one and those that don't want one. So there are more and more throughout the league, which I think makes it even tougher to rank. Let's try and get the two or three more questions, and this one should be a quick one. Craig Kirkpatress Kirkpatrick as I always need more Hornets data pre Mellow injury, between Mellow and Gordon injury. Post Gordon injury, I need it all. I wanted to look at larger sample sizes, so I did pre impost before the LaMelo ball injury Charlotte was twenty and twenty one. They were twenty second in net rating minus two point one. Their offense was seventeen. Their offense rating was one hundred and eleven point seven. They were twenty second in defense at one thirteen point eight. Since the LaMelo Ball injury, they are ten and nine. They are twentieth in net rating at negative one point two, they're twenty third in offense at one ten point seven, and they're tenth in defense at one eleven point eight. I think, especially since Gordon Hayward has come down one, James Brego deserves some sort of not Coach of the Year consideration but alternate award for having Charlotte be almost average on defense in some this year. I have no idea. I think they're seventeenth overall on the season. I just when you look at how under size their front court is from long stretches, I don't I don't know how they get there, so kudos to them, but I do think it's evident that they need LaMelo balls, playmaking, passing, IQ, all of it, even scoring mentality. It was before the Gordon Hayward injury, but it definitely since since Gordon Hayward went down. It's amazing that a guy this young and this raw and with this little experience playing against top end competition can make everyone around him that much better. Like the growth that he keyed from Miles Bridges was huge. The ability that he gave Terry Rose year to take on more responsibility without as much defensive attention was huge. DeVante Graham plays better when he's available as well. Like I mean, I'm just excited that there's a chance LaMelo Ball could play NBA minutes again this season and we get to see it again. Yeah, I think he's going to play NBA minute again. It seems like he will, and I hope he does, and that probably as shures him Rookie of the Year then, right, I don't know. I feel like Edwards is making enough of a push. I guess he's gonna get some love, especially given the points per game numbers he's putting up. I do wonder how many votes he gets though, for being a rookie on a probable playoff team. Just now that obviously these votes come in before the play in tournament or the playoffs whatever they should qualify for start, But I do think that's going to be part of the equation. I don't know how I would wait that when voting, but I think that would end up helping him, So I'd still give the edge to Tlamello. I think he would be my pick as well, but it's getting tighter. This question what has changed statistically for the Raptors drop off this year comes from Brandon Poulter. I will say one of the things is availability. When you look at COVID the games they've missed to injuries, you only have you know, I say only, but Lowry Siakam and Fred van Fleet have played in just thirty three games together. When you factor in Chris Bruche, who's been amazing for them before his injury, those four have only played in twenty three games together, and that number is going to drop down if you throw in Norman Powell before they traded him and Gary Trent Junior after they traded him. The availability is just really destroyed this team. I would point out that they are still a positive in the point offerential per one hundred possessions and just barely plus point four, but they've also sat a ton of guys. They got fine for improperly sitting guys basically, so I there's definitely been a drop off, but I just think it has more to do with the availability of their their bodies and they still feel like they're one offensive weapons short. I think the regression from Siakam at the beginning of the year, especially as a shooter, he's been better when he's attacking. I think that absolutely matters. But this is still a really good team when they have their best players on the floor. And I deserve to make an apology because I didn't throw an anobi into that sorter that I was doing before we recorded this this podcast. So just those four guys playing together this season, they haven't been available a ton, and yet when they are on the floor, which has only been eight hundred and seventy seven possessions, which isn't you know, it's not the smallest sample, but it's not the biggest. The refers are plus nine point eight points per one hundred possessions. That ranks in the ninety third percentile of all lineups that have logged at least fifteen possessions this year, all four man lineups. So and if look, you want that fifth guy, Bouche, Trent Junior, whoever you prefer, that number is just going to go down, So I think that plus sea comes drop off and shooting, I think that definitely does matter. That's been the biggest issue. And then also them not being able to rebound ever in certain lineups is a problem, but that was true last year too. I think I think the availability bleeding into a defensive decline has been how I would pinpoint the biggest issue because I'm using basketball references numbers here, this year's team is thirteenth and defensive last year's team was second, and the biggest ways we're seeing that manifested and I'm looking at the four factors here. This has always been a really aggressive style of defense that Toronto plays under Nick Nurse. They gamble for a lot of steals, they try to force a lot of turnovers. Last year we saw them do that without fouling. And we'll also being able to contest shots and make it a lot tougher for the opposition to get those clean looks, and we're not seeing either of those things this year. They were fifteenth and free throws per field goal attempt last year and second and opponent's effective field goal percentage allowed this year. In those two categories they have fallen to dead last and seventeenth, respectively. That's the biggest issue for me is that they're trying to play the same kind of aggressive, swarming defensive style that Nick Nurse always loves to play and just haven't had the personnel to do it, and it has backfired again. It had people been more healthy, being dead last and foul y kills them. Though yes it's absolutely a killer, let's say if we can do this. Last one very quickly comes from I actually just before the podcast, and neither of us really had an answer. Has Steph become better defensively? My eye test says yes, but the eye test is not enough. What about statistically? That comes from Long Live Earl. Yeah, I don't know that there's really much of a statistical case for that. If you look at any of the metrics that we typically use to measure defense, like he's he's had some slight gains, like defensive box plus minus has risen from minus point six to point one, and you know, it's a similar story and some of the other catchall metrics. But I don't I don't know that I've seen that as much. And maybe it's just because we've been so focused on his offense, or maybe it's because there's just some utter garbage around him for much of the season. But like, it hasn't been that obvious to me. I've always thought that the general public tended to underrate what Steph is able to do. On the defensive end. He's always been a pretty good positional defender. He has a really strong core, so he's able to hold up on switches when bigger guys are trying to back him down around the basket. He's a decent rebounder on the defensive end, but like, I don't know that I've seen tangible growth on that end. Yeah, I mean, for what it's worth, his guarded the opponents, the opponents that he's on there. Leron rating during those times is the second lowest of his career. But he's just this has been the when you're looking at the matchup difficulty, this is again per b Ball Index, this is the second easiest matchup difficulty he's had. I do think he does a better job than people credit for contesting things, and that might you know why you look at some of the Yeah, it does matter the personnel that he's on. You could tell, like it's not going to be these best players that being said the lower usage. I do also think is he has some he deserves some credit for because he will just his ability to or his willingness to contest or fight through uh, you know, bigger players, to get around screens or something that's going to force the ball out of other guys hands. But maybe I'm not watching closely enough for him to have said that he's improved offensively, though I do want to hit one. I do want to hit one. Last question, so I was really curious what you were going to do with and that question is from Elway Simpson who asked Blazers, what is the the My answer to that would be defense question Mark. I feel like I feel like the Portland Trail Blazers season has like validated my my preseason takes that you pushed back on a lot, right, just I had too many questions about this roster. They've been banged up Larkitch McCollum, both of whom are back now. So I get that some of the lineup decisions, I guess you could say are questionable, like you know them playing you know, earlier in the year, I know they didn't have a lot of options, were playing Canner and Mellow together that's you know that. I wonder why they Ronnie Hollis Jefferson was playing the other night. I don't, you know, why are you not using Derek Jones Junior? More? Like, what is the Is it just they think that he crimps or skimps the floor like too much on offense. I don't I And you know he's dealing with a hip thing right now, but he's shooting thirty two point six percent from three. That's not untenable. It's the highest mark of his career. And it sucks, let me be true, but like he's gonna be clear, like he's gonna give you someone who can put pressure on the rim and just really get out and transition. And he's probably is he a better one on one defender than Roco who is one of the best team defenders in the league. Great help for everything. So I want to make that's at least the conversation. I would say defense question mark though, it's just that they're there other level on defense and both strength feels like twenty sixteen or twenty third in the league rather than the worst. Their second worst defense in the league, and that's still not great. And the other thing is too they need to figure out a way to win against other good teams in the West. They just have one of the worst records against opponents above five hundred in the I'm among all postseason teams, so good spots to end it, thank you all for your questions. This was fantastic. Thank you all to the two people that just during the room and hopped out as we were and then this. Please, please, pretty please If you have not already, check out Hardwood Knox. We are podcasts. Go to wherever you get your podcast search hardwar Knox. Subscribe to us, download every episode whether or not you use iTunes. Head over there search hardwar Knox. Five star ratings only throw us them. They help us out a bunch right reviews. You could criticize us in them, that's fair game as long as you throw those five star ratings up there. Follow us on Twitter at Hardwood Knox. Head over to YouTube, where the comments section has been popping to post all of our podcasts on there. We're posting shorter clips there as well. Go to YouTube search hardw Knox, subscribe to us. We will be there, and then follow the Sports Math Network on Twitter at the Underscore Sports Underscore Math and look, if you've been sticking with us this long, you should follow Adam and I on Twitter as well. Adam is awfully close to seven thousand hours. We need to get him there at framo zero nine. Go follow Adam immediately. Until then, we leave you with shout out to the one the only Defensive Player of the Year candidate, Stephen Curry.