Made a decision face Sunnysome. I had a vision ny So, hey everybody,
welcome to our very special Thursday guest episode with Kate Casey. She had
a very popular podcast of this Reality Life. Yes, and you have five
kids? All right? Five kids? Yep shows Reality Life with Kate Casey,
Reality life, not this Reality Life. Sorry, well it should be.
I feel I feel like I see like your show is everywhere. It's
ubiquitous as the it's you know, it's weird though when you're in it.
I'm like, if somebody tells still to this day seven years actually it's been
seven years I've had a show today, still says like I listen to your
show, I'm sort of like you do. Don't you feel like in podcasting
it's so weird. You're in this vacuum and sometimes you have no sense of
like what's going on? Well I could see that yet, Yes, I
do feel that way. But one of the things that you should feel really
proud of is that I read the reddits, all the reddits, the reddit
threads, and your show is very respected, like there's no real controversy.
You know, people always think of you as somebody who gives really great interviews.
Fair interviews, you know has good takes on things like I've never heard
anybody be like, oh God, did you hear that problematic cake Casey take?
Like which a lot of podcasters get involved, you know what I mean
have I don't even like to use the word problematic because then that adds to
like this person got canceled. It's not like that, But I just mean
a lot of people have controversial or mean takes, and you never do.
Nobody ever says anything but positive things about your show. Well, that's nice.
I think part of it is that my life experience and then my professional
experience. In my personal life, I went to this boarding school for underprivileged
kids for high school. I think that opportunity really gave me a better worldview
and it made me way more empathetic and understanding. So I think I have
a good sense of even when I interview people that I'm just trying to hear
their personal story and where they're coming from. And then also in my profession,
my first chapter job was I did crisis media litigation for global law firms.
Because of it, i'm a little bit more apt to I think I'm
the person that you call in a cross I'm really good in a crisis because
of obviously that was my job to help corporations who had a client who was
facing like a major disaster, and it's like, as soon as there's chaos,
I immediately go to Zen. I wouldn't say that, like sometimes with
my own life, I'll be like, oh, what a shit show.
But then outside of that, like, I'm definitely person that you call when
you're facing some sort of issue you want to get a divorce, or you
know you've got some horrible issue with a friend or whatever it may be,
Like, I'm definitely the person to call. So I would hope that that
kind of trickles into my show and maybe that people see that in me that
I do kind of try to look at it in a fair and balance view.
You also probably have a very good bullshit detector because of the fantastic Oh
yeah for sure. But then I also feel like crazy people love me because
I don't feel like I like, I don't react to them. I'm sort
of like okay. And I think it's because of my family of origin,
because my family are all lunatics. So I've talked about it on my show,
Like my dad, I didn't see him between two and thirty two,
had no idea where he was. He didn't even know if he was really
my dad, because we don't really look that similar, and he would only
say he had one daughter, referring to my older sister. And I've been
covering it for a couple of months now that when we were reunited, when
I was thirty two, and I was like, where the hell have you
been? He was very cagy and I've gone through this process of seeking documents
about his military experience and where he was in the specifically in the eighties,
and now I've reason to believe that he may have been a spy for Ireland
during the troubles. So I'm like always around Kukerberg crazy people, even like
at boarding school when kids would show up and their parents would show up to
take them out on visiting. I was fascinated by people, and while other
people were embarrassed by their parents, I was like, no, I have
to tell you, have to tell me everything, Like so wait, your
mom cheated on your dad and your aunt is on crystal math, and like
he's in prison and how long has he been there? Like I wanted you
to know everyone's personal story, so I don't get red that easy. Yea
too. But do you find too though that? And I know you do.
When you're really interested in people's like dysfunction, then I tend to attract
like borderline personalities like love. Oh yeah, I want to be the friends
with me and think that we're best friends. And people will also open up
to me like way too fast, too soon, Like I'll go have coffee
and they will be crying about some super personal thing and I'm like, I
didn't ask, like oh you know, and then I have to just be
like, oh my gosh, that sounds hard and I want to just get
away as fast as possible, well after I hear the dirty details. But
do you can you compart minalize well where you can turn it off and walk
away and never think about it again, or just that like yes. Sometimes
one time somebody was like, you're an mdpath. I was like, I
am not an EmPATH because I'm done with that conversation. I can move on
to the next thing, no problem. Yes, I am not an EmPATH
either, But I think that's what attracts us to reality shows because I absolutely
love reality TV and it's because I love to see, you know, the
neuroses and how it plays out and how people can handle it in front of
a camera, you know, and uh and just they're real person analies,
how they come out. So I hate it when somebody downplays reality TV,
like, oh, I just waste my brand brain cells. I'm like,
well, you're not interested in human behavior, right, I tell us we're
just all cultural anthropologists. I just like to study people. And that is
why the same kind of people watch reality shows, who watch true crime documentaries,
that watch sports docuseries, that it's all the same kind of person We
just like to study people. Yeah, I agree, Real Sports with Brian
Govell is a great show, great show, and it is exactly the same
thing we're talking about. It's human interest stories. I can never get enough
human interest stories. Yeah, me too. I'm dying to ask you,
like right off the bat about this one show and then well we can totally
get into the reality stuff. But there was something on your watch list things
you're watching that I watched kind of as homework to have you on our show,
but then I was blown away. But it's a documentary on Hulu called
Never Let Him Go. Four episodes. Yeah, I actually interviewed the brother
Steteve Johnson. Yeah, why haven't Steve and the director. That was a
great story. So for everyone who was listening, this brilliant man went to
Australia to study mathematics to get his PhD. And one night went out and
was found at the bottom of a cliff and he was naked when he was
found, and investigators presumed that it was just a suicide. However, at
the point where he would have fallen off the cliff, his clothes were folded
up into a pile. While his brother never took the idea of suicide seriously,
he was first. He was for sure that something else happened. So
he ended up selling his company to aol and made a ton of money and
then used some of that money as a resource to hire an investigative reporter from
Newsweek and put all reward money forward and a private and a private detective.
Then because of it, thirty years later it was revealed that there were these
like gangs in Australia on the coast that were big bigots and they would push
gay men over cliffs, so essentially setting up a casual sex, you know,
meet up, and they would have them take their clothes off, fold
their clothes and then push them off cliffs. And ultimately, because of the
brother's work, he has been part of this complete movement in Australia to eradicate
bigotry. And it's Sydney in particular, near by where this happened, has
become this super friendly lgbqt uh city. I mean, they had like their
gay pride stuff is like on the world map, and I like to think
that the brother had a part of that in honor of his brother, but
it unthinkable that in the eighties there were these men that would do it.
So ultimately, at the end of the series, you see how the person
that did it actually confesses and how it all happened. So it's really kind
of like a true crime documentary meets social movement series. Which when I loved
about it, which I was telling Lynette on our Tuesday episode, was that
each episode, like because sometimes a document a docum series like that, you
can feel like, well, you could have probably wrapped this up in like
two episodes, but when you get to the third episode and we meet the
lady who's the Pamstone, who's this detective who's you know, like I'm the
only woman on like out of a hundred men who are on this team that
investigates, and she is just a beach beyond. And at first you're almost
on her side because you're like, oh, well, you know, this
must be frustrating. And because Steve, the brother of the victim, you
know, is using his money, that his resources, he's well resourced,
so he's getting public scrutiny on this and he's getting it out onto what is
it called the story Australia. They have like a it's like their version of
sixty minutes, although Australia actually has sixty minutes, so it's like something by
the way, it's X. It's it's kind of better than ours. Yeah,
it's really good. That's really good. But anyway, you know,
it's this weird mislead where you start hearing about her and she's just awful,
Like she's just very frustrating and she's kind of working against him. And at
one point in the interview I was like, I have to bring this up
to Kate. When she starts laughing, she's being interviewed and she thinks it's
funny. She's kind of like, sorry, I hate to laugh, but
they catch her. Basically, it's kind of a gatcha moment because she's not.
She's like, I'm sorry, hold on, like, let me take
this again, Like I don't want to I don't want to laugh. I
mean, it's not really funny, but it's kind of funny that he thinks
that we should be paying attention to this crime, or he thinks he's so
sure it was homicide. It's like ridiculous, you know. Basically, she's
like, he's ridiculous, and she's working against him the whole time, and
she gets hers. She gets hers, and it's so satisfying because you know,
she keeps trying to act like Steve the Brothers a narcissist and like,
oh, he just wants to center himself in the story, which is not
true, right, And anybody that's ever fought for something like that is like,
that's so frustrating. Yeah, like that he's being Anyway, it's so
good. I highly highly recommend it. By the way, It's like one
of those episodes where I'm interviewing somebody and now I've been pulled into their life
and then I get to see at the end of the series that they had
some some small form of justice, and then I start getting emotional and then
they start getting emotional and I'm like, I just want to tell you,
you know, what you've done for your brother. It's like and then I'm
like, keep it together, Kate, because you get so sucked into the
stories and then you're you know, you're so happy for them that they were
tireless in their pursuit of justice. And there was another one that I interviewed
recently that it's called Burden of Proof and it's on Hulu, and it's a
man whose sister just disappeared one night. Disappeared. Yeah, yeah, yeah,
I interviewed that brother too, and then it was like then I was
up emotional about that one too. I was like, you know, I
just the love for your sister is so compelling to me. And you know,
anyway, and then I set him up with my friend who's a medium,
and then he did a reading for him. Yeah, he thought it
was his parents that got rid of his sister. At first he thought so,
and then as time goes on, he rethinks that right, right,
And then and then you have to unravel that you've been blaming your parents for
something, right, and then how do you how do you mend that relationship?
That's why I'm like, all this unscripted stuff to me is way more
interested than scripted stuff. I mean, it's just like all the layers.
Even if I watched like a housewife show and you know, grant, a
lot of it's getting stale. But sometimes there are these little gems where you
think you know somebody and then there's like a complete left turn and you're like,
oh, now that makes sense, right. I think that we're all
just trying to like put the puzzles pieces together. Yeah, Like my mom
would always love reading crime books, and then as I got older, I
went, oh, it's because her life is so unstable, like she feels
some sort of control of her life by trying to figure out who committed that
crime. Oh interesting. I just remember as a kid, I would get
we would get the La Times, and I was always reading about the crimes
going on in Los Angeles. Like I was drawn to you know, some
kid got kidnapped out a landcaster or whatever, the you know freeway killers or
you know, the Hillside strangler or the whatever. I was always so interested
and intrigued with the crime going on around us, like in the valley and
stuff. Yeah it was interesting, but yeah I wanted to talk to you.
You switching gears a little bit about the Housewives of OC. Yeah,
so something broke over this weekend about Shannon Badoor. I'm all pretty caught up.
But what do you know about Shannon? She I guess she got a
dui, which is pretty ironic. Yeah, I mean think what everybody else
knows is that she was arrested. She got a d oi. Apparently she
hit a house and she had her dog in the car too, and they
Yeah, so the neighbor apparently reported them. I think I think I drove
past her last week and now it's the school. My kids school is in
the same neighborhood that she was living then when we watched the film the show.
Actually now I'm pretty sure that was her, but though my friend told
me she had recently moved, so I'm assuming that it happened in the same
neighborhood, but I think she lives in different house. I will say this,
I think that it has been very easy for certain housewives to hide addiction
issues because the shows are less now about their personal stories, and they're about
scenes where they're all together and they're drinking together. So like, if you're
maybe somebody who's sober. I do think there's a question of, like is
there a space for you. Maybe not for every franchise, but certainly in
Orange County in New York, you have two housewives now who I believe are
sober Uba and Jetta, and that doesn't really seem to change the dynamics of
the show. But I think for some of these legacy shows, and particular
in particular oh C. I mean, I'm friends with Bronwyn and she used
to during filming talk to me about that. I mean she'd say things like,
I just don't think I'm fun if I'm not drinking, So what am
I supposed to do? And I think that's kind of the old school real
housewive mindset. So I think anybody who watches that show has been concerned about
Shannon and whether there's a sobriety issue. And I would hope that if there
is an issue, that this may have been the wake up call that she
needed. Ultimately, How's Wives should be about complicated women, and they're complicated
stories and their complicated intersection of their friendships. So I would hope that they
do at some point discuss it. And now I think she should go off
the show and get well, but they still should talk about it in terms
of like maybe like what do you do when you know a friend is struggling?
Like how difficult it is in female friendships that you know you have a
friend who's has an addiction issue, and like how that changes your dynamics.
I would hope that they did that, because to me, that's what makes
shows like that interesting. But like I said, I feel like they've gotten
a little bit more and I think they're understanding that now that it became like
Survivor at a dinner table, right when it shouldn't be. It should be
like aren't we enough? Like just our interesting person stories Like a housewife's story
in Orange County should be the suburban story. It's totally different than a Beverly
Hill story. It's about women who are raising children and then all the things
that come with that, how competitive it is, or if you have a
child that's you know, neurotypical versus neurodivergent, and how that affects your friendships
and their friendships. They're all these little things. How do you deal with
like in laws and people in your neighborhood who don't have the same political beliefs
Like I think to that. To me, all that stuff's really interesting.
But I don't know. For some reason people think like someone screaming you across
the table and throwing a drink is more interesting. I beg to differ.
I take, let's take a quick break, and then I have more to
say about that too. I think just getting back to the substance abuse stuff,
like they they cast people that you know are going to have these issues.
I mean, Shannon Badore from her first season was they were is going
crazy? Remember the first season. I want to say, like the maybe
one of the first or second episodes that she was ever on she was screaming
and like out inner child, drunk at somebody's house and they were like gonna
call nine to one one. Yeah, that was like that was season one.
Yeah, you know. And the ones that aren't like that aren't like
that, you know. And you've got the ones in Beverly Hills. I
mean, you've got Ramona who's always seemed to like, You've got Lui Ane,
like, you have these people that act very, very altered, and
so I think one of the problems is when you have enough of them and
you don't have a grounding character who doesn't have this problem. It's very easy
to be like, well, who the fuck are you to tell me?
Like look at like who's gonna who's gonna do the intervention? You know in
Beverly Hills, like who's gonna you know, like each one of them takes
turns sort of getting sober, so who Like in New York it used to
be almost common to watch them try to tell the other one like you're an
alcoholic, like you got so new Morgan who had a dui before she even
came on the show, you know, she'd she had a dui. I
think she's had two now, so because I know she got another one during
the time that like between seasons at one point not that long ago. So,
but who's gonna They're all gonna be like, oh my gosh, you
have a drinking problem. Who's going to tell her that? Lu Anne?
Like and also like it's like if if you and I were on OC,
we would say something like don't you think it's interesting that she uses like this
naturopathic organic lifestyle as a shield, like no one can bring this to her
attention because she's got like garlic clothes in the in the roof of her kitchen,
it's always going to doctor Moon. Yeah, yeah, doctor. She's
clearly using that as a shield. But also that would be an opportunity for
story for me too to explore, like is this amped up because now all
the kids are out of the house? Is she having an identity crisis?
Is she spiraling because she's not tethered to a child that you know, gives
her some sense of grounding. I don't know what there are a lot of
women that go through that like well, who am I now? What's going
on? And her boyfriend too, right, I mean, wasn't he accused
of a heavily drinking and always heard that? They both like that's the thing
that they have together, is like he's fun. We have fun together,
you know, right. I mean as people get older, it's like how
much is fun? Like it starts out maybe they have like two drinks together,
and then it's like we went out and we had fourteen drinks and you're
like, normal people don't have to have fourteen drinks, Like what is this
really about? But I think that oftentimes, especially in suburbia, where people
can use other excuses to kind of cover why they might be drinking that much
like all the divorce is really hard or I get this going on and there
are very few people sometimes in and I say, this is somebody who lives
here. I'm not originally from here. I live here. I often say
this is a perfect place for cons and it's a perfect place for people to
have like secret lives, because no one here really asks intrusive personal questions.
It's like a very people are more apt to ask you like how much did
you pay for your house? And do you have a boat? Versus like
it's so true, what are you struggling with now? And I find that
I'm a person who ask a lot of questions, and I'm always surprised at
how the reaction is often like why are you asking me so many questions?
That is why, like all the date lines are mostly set in Orange County,
because you can come here and you can make up a whole life and
no one's going to actually like cross reference stuff like I would, because no
one asked really in death questions like oh, and you're from Miami and you
have a Lamborghini, and like where are your kids? And you know,
and then what was the name of your last business? And did it go
public? And like all of those questions no one asks. It's so true
because I just was watching because on HBO, well now it's called Max,
but there's all these true crime shows, and there was one called Evil Lives
Here and it's it's family members of people that have been arrested that have done
horrible things. And the first episode I watched was the sister of the mom
of the Turnip family that out of Paris with the twelve kids, yes,
the House of Horrors where they're being chained up and malnourished. So she was
their aunt, these kids's aunt, and they lived in Texas for a long
time, and all of a sudden, she wanted to start home schooling.
So they researched what state would be good where nobody nobody comes looking, especially
following up on homeschooling state of California. Surprise, surprise, So they moved
here. Yeah, they moved to Riverside County. Nobody question them, and
then it took years until a kid got, you know, the courage to
get out and go call nine one one. But it's so funny that you
say it, because it's true. It's like California, nobody nobody asks,
No, I'm from Philly. People will be like wait what wait? Where
did you go to school again? And then where did you work after that?
And we're like looking on LinkedIn as you're talking to us, right,
yeah, like I I'll do I'll check for the receipts. Yeah right,
Like so many people here, it's like then my company went public and then
I'm like, five minutes later, I'm like that doesn't sound right, sure
enough. It's like total bullshit. Although also a lot of people here there's
like a lot of family money and they're insecure about it, so they'll make
up some stupid tail that they take like makes them seem more important. It's
like, you know, just lean into whatever you are exactly right as my
as my husband's friend once told me, don't hang a light on it,
exactly exactly. So let me ask you this, how, okay, so
are you keeping up on all you have five children? What it's like?
What's the age range? Oldest is a freshman in high school and then I
have a sixth grade boy, a fourth grade girl, a second grade girl,
and a preschool girl. Oh my god, so four girls and one
boy? So how and you keep up on a lot of shows like are
you watching all the Housewives? I watch it all. I watch a lot
of true crime docs. I get a lot of screeners sent to me,
so that helps with weaving watching and researching and booking around their schedules in school.
I don't sleep a lot. It's just, you know, I've always
been like a weirdo who I don't need really more than five hours of sleep.
So we do a lot of stuff at night when the kids go to
bed. But I'm also just a really good multitasker. I just find pockets
of time. And the truth is this, I created this job. You
know, when we were kids, people are like, find a job and
get paid for it. Like I truly did that. So it doesn't feel
like work to me, because this is what I would be doing anyway.
I want to be watching on these shows and looking people up and interviewing people
and talking to them and basically getting paid to do what I love. And
but in fairness, like I have to be honest, like because everybody in
the world has a podcast now, it has been freaking hard. I did
not. I was not a celebrity before. I was not on a reality
show. I created this myself, and you know a lot of people have
like producers, like it's all my own thing, and it's not easy.
But I will say, if you have a really great idea and you're willing
to put the work in, you know, I think podcast is fantastic.
Is your husband supportive? Yeah, I mean he has no idea what I'm
talking about. He has a software company, so I don't know what he's
talking about either, so or happy to stay Yeah, yeah exactly. He
thinks I'm strange because I'm so fascinated by people, but I think he's strange
because he's so fascinated by like processes and software how things work. Yeah,
but it will say, oh my god, you're you're the clutch because I'll
go to a meeting and I remember everybody's name, the names of their kids,
where they live, like all that stuff. So I do come in
handy for him. And then I would say the same. But like,
our printer still doesn't work, So I don't know. I will say that
my husband, like when I tell him that the printer's not working. We
were just talking about this other other show where I'm just like, well,
I guess it's broken. I guess we My brain immediately goes, well,
I guess we need a new printer, because it says the paper's out,
but the paper's not out because it's not feeding it properly. And I'm like,
well, I don't know, how are you going to fix a feeder?
Like you're going to bring in the printer to be fixed. You just
get a new one, you know. And I tell John John, I
think the printer's broken, and he says it because it says it's out of
paper, and I'm like, yeah, but it's not out of paper,
seeing gotcha, it's broken. And then like the next day he's like,
the printer's fine, now I fixed it, And I'm like, I don't
know how you did that? Why I'm married? It's like he invents electricity.
I don't know how. How do you know? How do you know
the inside workings of He's like it was a paper jam, Like I mean
at the end, we really marry these and the end, did we really
marry them for romance? Or is it just to get the printer fixed?
You know? It's like I don't want to do the printer. So there
you go, right right, Well, what kind of software does he?
Is it anything that you're interested in? Uh? He makes the software for
doctors offices And yeah, actually we started dating and he came up with the
idea for the company. So it has been fun because I've kind of been
there from the beginning. I mean, we were sitting on the floor of
a Barnes and Noble trying to come up with company ideas. And yeah,
we hope that they just named it Unicorn status, but we haven't gone public
yet or anything. But but it's been really fun to feel like I've been
kind of been witnessed to this. Yeah, what I believe will be a
great business story, and I think he'll write a great book afterward. Already
have the idea of the name of the book in my head. The kind
ceo, it's nice. He's such a nice person and people just love him
because he's so He really cares about culture, and I think, you know,
there are so many CEOs who get these have these ruthless personalities and reputations,
and I just don't think it's necessary. You can still be a kind
ceo. Yeah, yeah, like you on Musk. Yeah, when I
first some of my kids, some of my kids are like him, but
then some of them are more Philly like me. Yeah. I when I
first started in Chowviz, the CEO of our company was the nicest guy.
I mean he was writing It was a small company, but he was writing
checks at Christmas time like how what what do you you know? What what's
your three months? Not like how much do you owe on your car payments?
Like or and you're this and you're that, And he would write us
a check and say Marry Christmas. And it was just like the nicest,
sweetest guy. And I always thought to myself like, yeah, like that's
that was my introduction to what a CEO should be instead of, you know,
the opposite, just insane. It is possible too, because like it
is like talk show hosts, you know, people are like, oh,
they're all the same. No, Ellen was horrible, terrible. Linna and
I would talk about we were trying to warn our audience about Ellen. We
both knew stuff about her. Wait years before people when people were like America's
sweetheart, she's so funny, before there was a Twitter feed about it.
Yeah, we already knew. And my friend Chris is the one that started
that Twitter thing. Oh, Chris Farah a great comedian. She had this
weird experience waiting tables with her and right she complained nail polish thing. Yeah,
and it was my friend Chris Farah Yeah, wow, oh wow,
she's hysterical. I have a very good friend who worked there, very who
had a high up and would tell and we were raising our kids together and
she would tell I mean, she would just tell me stories like every day
about working there, like crazy stories like they're I allowed to make eye contact.
Like but years before, when everybody was like, oh my god,
she's the greatest, and I would have to hear about it. So when
it came out, I was like, not, you know, oh wow,
this is finally out. But Kelly Clarkson nicest, nicest, nicest reputation.
She's so kind, the same hairdresser gives money like get her own money,
spends her own money on our staff to give bonuses like the real deal.
We'll remember when she was a contestant on American Idol went to the it
was just down to earth. Yes, oh yeah. I read this one
time. I read this Harvard Business Review article and it was basically saying that
who you are as a CEO or really anybody in business or whomever you are
kind of really it's set by the relationship you have with your own father.
Like there's a connection to it. So they said that that that people who
have CEO or they have fathers are very loving and supportive typically then become very
loving and supportive CEOs, but that people who had abandoned based abandonment, like
myself, or they use like Barack Obama and a few others as examples,
they tend to try to overachieve because they're trying to impress a father that will
never give a shit about them. Basically, so like for me, and
I think you've been witnessed to that even the beginning of this episode, Like
you're like, isn't your show big? I think it's small because in my
brain, I'm always trying to work to impress a dad who will never give
me the acknowledgement that I want. Wow, it makes a lot of sense.
I think we've done. We've healed you though so far, so moving
forward, you know, Lenette and I just have this magical thing talk and
full circle. No, we talk about that though a lot too. Like
I mean, I have had some shit in my past, and I think
not maybe not as a CEO, because I'm not a CEO of anything,
but like as a parent, I definitely have over compensating, like overly nice,
like so worried about my kids being mad at me or hurting anybody's feelings
or you know, just trying to be make Christmas the greatest Christmas ever,
that's ever Christmas because you know, had a shitty childhood, and I had
a dad that was very loving, and I had a crazy nut job mom.
But my dad was always over compensating from my crazy mom, and it
was very supportive and very loving. And then I would say, like I
was a good boss to Klin, Right, Klin stories, thank you.
I Meanwhile, he's smoking in the corner, shaking with a bottle of whiskey.
I would say, Lynnette, rarely ever hits Kalin, And I think
that's I'll throw anything. I deserved it that one at one time. But
it was called a corrective, you know. So you didn't do that behavior
here again. You learned put him in his place, all right. So
let's ask let me ask you this for me and Linette. Yeah, Heather
Debra, where Heather Debra stands? Are you if you're gonna have to pick
somebody from the O C that you're like that you like? Do you like
Heather? You mean for the show from Yeah, from the cast. Yeah,
I think that there are not enough of her. I think it doesn't
work because there's only one of her, and I feel like her her persona
is so specifically where I live, like over more towards the coast. She
represents the woman who has almost so much money they don't know what to do
with it, and that they cannot calibrate for somebody calibrate to like have a
normal conversation with someone who has struggles that are way beneath their socioeconomic level.
And I feel like there should be more of her. Does that make sense?
Yeah? Yeah, I mean I can't have likes. It doesn't work
for me because for two reasons. One, I just don't I know living
here that people are lazy about friendship and it's like, unless you're in town,
they don't work that hard. They just don't. So the idea of
someone in San Clemente being friends with someone in Crystal Cove and then like Ladera
Ranch and then like that would never happen. The other thing is the one
story that is never really told on that shows how impossible it is to break
into social groups as an outsider, because it's like, if you did you
grow up here did you go to USC? Are you in the sorority?
And the people kind of hang out in groups and then they all go on
trips together, and it's entree into social groups is so hard as an outsider,
and I don't feel like they really get that story. So a lot
of the snobbiness that exists here, I just don't think you can rely on
just how the debro to tell that story. Well, one of the things
I found, because I'm pretty caught up on the OC was everybody seems to
be picking on Heather this season and and and then it's like Tamra seems to
be the troublemaker and pointed out, I think it's it's a it's a power
shift, it's a power dynamic because last season they were so annoying because they
all had to kiss Heather's ass because there was this perceived power that she had,
like she was almost like a producer. There's always one that they think
they have, like producer power, which they really don't, so they were
all like kissing her ass. So then Tamra comes and Heather seems a little
bit afraid of Tamra because she's so bold and all of that. So I
think they were kind of relieved and they're like, oh, for fuck's sake,
now we can actually like, do you know, be who we really
want to be. But if we're sick of because she's very condescending to them,
yeah she is. She is like they wouldn't put up with that for
more than one season. But there's but they're bad people, but they're where
there's scenes where she's saying, like Heather is saying like, you know,
they're like, uh, what's her face is talking about? You know,
don't talk about my boyfriend and don't bring him up, and uh, what's
her name? The one that got the d Uiannon Shannon Shannon door. So
she's saying, like Heather's talking about you know, what's in the vault?
The vault they keep saying, and it's like then they showed the flashback and
Heather did not do that. She actually shut it down. She was like,
yeah, you know, I actually know, so I can't wait for
the reunion. So shannondo, yeah, and you know, you get mad
because it's like you're on episode twelve and you're like, oh, for fuck's
sake, let's just go, right, I know, let's go. Let's
yeah, let's get let's get Andy Cohen and I don't what. I the
reason I don't watch those see so I'm not even up on it is because
a couple of seasons ago I had to start boycotting it because Tamra's when Tamra
came back, because her stupid son, who's just a criminal, I mean,
the domestic batteries, Ryan Vai vote vaf, I mean, who cares
what his last name is? Is he that important that we're saying if you
google him and you google he's made some atrocious rants about murdering trans people.
I mean, he literally said that trans people should be murdered and he hopes
they get murdered. And then he had another thing that was like against a
mom of a trans child that he was saying, it's disgusting. And then
Tamra got involved and was like, you know, agreeing, like yeah,
that's disgusting. And then Tamra had to kind of apologize and go, I
didn't really quite understand what he was talking about, and I don't. I
don't necessarily agree with my son's views, but here's the thing. He and
then he was arrested for domestic battery of his baby mama Pops up on the
show, and right, this show about women, and where I have to
watch some thirty year old who's like a horrible human being, not interested,
never happens like a terrorist with his show. And why is it Andy Cohen
allow putting him on the show and paying him he's in full on scenes.
I don't think he gets paid. I will say that. I think I
don't know. That's a good question. I think I think a lot of
people that they add to the show make no sense. Right, Well,
I don't understand why. And then why the Heather, like you know,
when she saw the sun, she was like, oh, how are you
doing? I haven't seen you in a long time? When she's got a
trans trans child, Well again, that's like why don't we and we explore
That's what's interesting to me, Like what do you do when your friend has
a child who is vehemently against the values that your family has? Like why
isn't that enough storytelling to me? Like why don't we explore that? Instead?
It's like let's have them go to a duffy boat and get wasted,
Like this is not really like what female stories are really interesting? Like why
are we not covering that? I don't know. I wish I was executive
producer. Wouldn't it be nice? Oh? It would be great. I
mean kill it. Do you have any other shows or stuff that you're watching
that we should all watch? Okay, so I have a couple of recommendations.
Okay, So did you guys watch Jury Duty? Okay? Good?
So Jury Duties definitely a recommendation on Amazon Prime. Have you ever watched Vatican
Girl on Netflix? No? No, okay. Vatican Girl is about a
girl who disappeared in from Vatican City in the eighties. She was on her
way to a flute lesson. Her father worked for the Vatican as one of
the employees so they could live within the Vatican City. She disappears. She's
never comes home, and the people in Vatican City and her family have been
tis tireless and they're pursuit to find out what happened. Well, fast forward,
there were the WEEKI Leaks or the Vatican Leaks was part of like a
like a leaking of Vatican documents, and in it they found that there were
at least I think fourteen pages of what looks like costs associated with like this
girl's care for like years after she disappeared, and there was an address that
was associated with it, and this reporter within the series finds out it's like
a hostel, like a youth hostel in England run by the Catholic Church.
That compiled with some other things, you're like, did the Catholic Church have
a hand in what happened to this girl? And then also where is she?
So there's that. Another great one and was a little bit from a
couple of years ago, but it's a great story. It's called The Lost
Sons and it's on Discovery. Plus this story is insane, by the way.
I've covered all these, like the Vatican one I have like an Italian
journalist. We do a whole episode about it. Wow. The other one
that you guys are going to be obsessed with is called The Lost Sons.
So in nineteen sixty four, this little boy named Paul fron Zac is born
in a Chicago hospital and his mother, Dora, is exhausted like all new
mothers are. There is a woman who's dressed up as a nurse, going
door to door and saying to each new mother the doctor needs to do more
tests on the baby, and none of them hand over the baby to this
nurse until she gets to Dora fronz X room, so she's exhausted and she
hands the baby over. The woman leaves the hospital, never be seen again.
It's the reason they are the pink code bracelets and hospitals. So a
year later, there is a little boy found outside of a strip mall in
Atlantic City and stroller and he's got some bruising on his face. So the
authorities there call Chicago and the FBI and say, we found this little boy.
So they send the fron z X the picture of the little boy and
they're like, we think this could be your son. Well, when he
was born, they only got like a picture, black and white picture and
like, but they didn't get his blood type or anything else. So they
looked at the ear size, which is insane, and they're like, oh,
that must be our son. So they take him home. They are
raising him as Paul fron Zach. Well. He can't go over the fact
that he looks nothing like his relatives. And when he's about ten, he
pulls a couch back from the wall and there's a box filled with newspaper clippings
about a kid that boy, and he goes to his mother and asks,
is this about me? And she says, don't ever ask me about it
again. As an adult, he gets them to do a DNA swap.
He's not their son. So The Lost Sons is about where in the world
is Paul fronzach And then the other part of it is him finding out through
like twenty three and me his identity and he finds out that he's a twin
and where it is his twin and what is his story? This one will
make you sweat. You will be screaming at the TV. You're going to
be like, what is going on? Those two are fantastic true crime doctor
hell yes? And then out and then you can listen to my interviews with
Paul Fronzac. Oh wow, yeah, the real Paul fron Zac and then
also the journalist, the Italian journalist who was executive producer of Vatican Girl.
How do you find these people? Do you just hit him up on Instagram
or do you and like just like yeah, everything I look up LinkedIn is
fantastic. I'm like, who do you? Who? Do I know?
It's it's like always a game to me of like how do I get to
that person? And they seem like yeah, they seem to be willing to
sit down and talk to you, which is yeah. I think also they
look at the episodes I've done. I mean I've interviewed Amanda Knox for example.
They're like, this is somebody who really is interested in story and I
and I do a ton of research and I'm very respectful of the art of
unscripted filmmaking. So did you interview in Natalia Grace? I interviewed the executive
producer. You did. Wow, Yeah, here's what kills shake. Yeah,
we need to take a quick break. Okay, here's what killed me
about Natalia Grace was they they had there's a there's a moment in one of
the episodes where you find out that like Natalia Grace was a child, you
know, through the through the birth records, et cetera. But then I
don't think they hit it hard enough. They didn't have enough people going okay,
so this is settled business, like she was a child. So then
you go on like Reddit threads and whatever, and people are like, I
don't know, was she a child? And you're like, it's that's literally
factual, Like they yes, that's not even in question. So moving on
to other things that were fucked up, But like what you know what I'm
saying, Like the whole thing it felt unfinished. Yeah, it wasn't addressed
well enough. But I interviewed her before it started, and I remember being
very frustrated because I would ask her, well, didn't anybody notice like the
pubic hair, and the answers were like, well, I don't know,
what would you think? And I'm like, you meet the fucking film,
like you tell me right, And then I tried to circle back afterwards,
and I was sort of ghosted, So I don't know, maybe I just
I just remember at the beginning of it. It's like I remember when I
was watching it, and you know, it's so crazy because that dad is
just like unhinged crazy and you so right away you're like, Okay, well
this this is an unreliable narrator. And now the mom's and unrela that you
know, you're like, what's happening. But I remember going, well,
there's no question that she was a child because she has baby teeth. Like
you're looking at the photo of her and you go, well, she has
baby teeth. It's not until like a couple episodes later that the one woman
who's like a legal expert is like, yeah, she has baby teeth.
She had baby teeth, she was a child. You can't fake that,
like you you you're not you don't get to be. There's no cases where
somebody is, you know, in the a teenager or whatever and they don't
have baby, they have baby teeth still. So that's that was. That
was before they ever got to the hospital records and actually talking to the actual
mom and the you know what I'm saying, the birth certificate at the hospital
records when she was born, et cetera. But it was it was just
so weird that they focused on the wrong thing for so long, which I
think was why the executive prosuers like, well, I don't know, because
they wanted it to be this thing where people are like, right, oh
no, it's a question. It's like, no, it's not a question.
And that was when you that was unlike most interviews, I don't have
that, but not one in particular was quite frustrating. But also so was
the series so right. And when you're watching a documentary, you think,
oh, it's a documentary, I'm going to get all the facts, but
you really kind of some documentaries are molded to where they fit the narrative of
what they're trying to say. Well, they they so badly wanted it to
be. I think a lot of document series and documentaries are trying to be
like jinxed, right, So they want there to be this hah, this
twist, this moment where you're like which they did with Natalia Grace with the
moment on the stairs where you where it's like, oh, the hot mic
and this they kind of admit to kicking her down the stairs, and they
thought that was going to be this like wow, there there you go,
that's the big moment. It's like, not really, because we already know
that you're super abusive, that this is insane and this is a horrible thing
that happened to the I don't know. I feel like it was it was
too much. It was crazy and I was riveted every moment, but it
was too much like that, oh yeah, yeah, to see what we
did here, it's like, yeah, but there's an actual person involved in
this that you were. It was very exploitive to me. Yeah, I
agree with you. It was totally unfinished. But I'm sure that they're going
to do some other thing in the future. Maybe you'll get the answers.
I don't know. If I'm sticking around for the answers. But all right,
so we got Vatican, Vatican Girl, Yeah, Vatican Girl, and
The Last Sons. One of the things I wanted to ask you, I
don't watch the show, but from what I'm hearing, Sister Wives is falling
apart at the seams. Sister or no Sister Wives. Now is the time
to watch that kind of hearing. You're finally seeing women understand their own power
and lead this raman headed loser of it such I So it's it's like a
payoff for people that have been fascinated by the inner workings of this polygamy adjacent
family right for all this time, and now that's what's satisfying, is that
you're finally seeing them go like I'm gonna leave. And then this one in
particulars like I interviewed the one that left Christine right and it was just awesome
because she's like, what was I thinking? And you know what, I'm
gonna go out. I'm gonna find love. And now she's gonna get married
to somebody else who's like, awesome, Oh my god, that's amazing.
Because I've seen little bits and pieces I've heard somebody one of the Wives got
duped and catfished and had an emotional effect. But it's funny because you look
at all the ads for the Sister Wives from past seasons. It's been on
for so long, and they're just like all walking around, you know,
in the hills together with Sunshine. Now you go to like Discovery Channel the
Sister Wives and it's like lightning and like, you know, everybody's upset except
from Happy. They're finally acknowledging that it was all pretty bullshit behind it,
he seems, and you're like, well, no shit, Sherlock. So
it's it's very satisfying for the viewer. Okay, so now's the time to
watch, now's the time to watch. Interesting. So you're watching all these
crime thing Did you watch the I watched it first, Sports Documents too.
I'm a sports person, so I watch a ton of sports stuff too.
Oh I'm a super big sports person. I really at everything anything and Unstripped.
I watched, Yes, except I don't like Love after lock Up.
I'm sorry, I can't do that. A ninety day fiance not so much
anymore. But everything else I pretty much watch. Yeah, what about The
Bachelor? Yeah, I watch it. It's kind of boring. But I
just don't think it's able to stay fresh and new in an age where you've
shows like f Boy Island. I mean, you got to keep it fresh
and edgy, and it's too saccariny for a you know, twenty years twenty
plus years is kind of boring. So what about Bachelor in Paradise Because we're
trying to that'll be good, that'll be good, rosy. So we're Bachelor
in Paradise for sure, but like the actual, like there are twenty five
of us and we're in a prom gown and you know, I'm sorry,
can I have some time with you? It just doesn't love anymore in the
still for a minute edgie, Yeah, it really doesn't, which is why
it's just a little plug for Rose Pricks. We I think Cecily and I
are one of the few Bachelor podcasts that is just taking the piss out of
them, Like we're just making fun. We're pretty much making fun of it.
I Mean people get upset because anybody that watches it earnestly, but like
that's on you if you're watching it earnestly at this point and thinking people are
there to find love. The audience is I think the audience is either like
sixty year old women or fourteen year old women. I'm not kidding you,
because I was. I'm friends with a person who was a contestant made it
quite far, and he was telling me like, my dms are from girls
that are really young. And then I remember I put out I was interviewing
them, and I asked, you know, I'm going to interview him if
there are any questions you want me to add, And it was like,
can you ask him in this astrological signs? Like women professional women are like
do you have an arrest record? Do you ever retire? Like those things.
It's all very like it's very young girls. And then like older women
like to watch it with their maybe they're younger kids or maybe I don't know.
It's just well, you're doing the right thing by covering a lot of
content because we're kind of stuck with Like even my sister in law, who
used to be a big listener of rose Pricks was like, yeah, me
and my friends like they used to have I mean they were the target audience.
They would have watching parties, like every week they would all get together
with the girlfriends and make their appetizers like them Bachelor themed appetizers, and she
was like, oh, yeah, we stopped watching like four seasons ago.
Yeah, like, bitch, you can still do you do rose Pricks about
any dating show? Yeah? We yeah, we do. We've covered like
we covered Love is Blind, We cover Love is Blind. Now we covered
and just like that the second season of the and just like that, which
is not a dating show, but it's a it's Sex in the City,
the reboot of Sex in the City that we've been making fun of. Yeah,
you could still do it if we're finding our place, It's okay.
Yeah. So how often does your show come out? Six times a week?
Monday's Monday's my what to watch episode and I break it that down,
and then Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday, Friday or interviews, and then Saturday.
I have a Saturday series where I tell more on my personal story but
also interview really interesting people. Actually, I think Saturday's episode's gonna be Ronnie
from Watch What Crappens like their personal story, what makes their unique story interesting.
That's very nice. You know, Ronnie's my friend. You came on
our show when I was doing rose Pricks with Ronnie and spoiled the ending of
the Bachelor. I know, I'm fel bad about that I did. Ronnie
was just like, what the fuck? Like, I know, I know,
I'm fine, And you were like, oh, I thought everybody like
finds out the ending ahead of time. You're like, well, we liked
to watch every episode Evergreen. Yeah, wow, that was bad. That's
funny. Who cares where weekend? So you want to plug Instagram? You're
sure. So you can listen to Reality Life with Kate Casey anywhere where you
listening to podcasts. You can join the Facebook group Reality Life with Kate Casey.
I've got Patreon obviously for bonus episodes. The must watch list you can
sign up for every Monday. You get it in your inbox what to watch
each week at Kate Casey dot substack dot com. And then you can find
me on Twitter at at Kate Casey, Instagram at Kate Casey c A,
and on TikTok at It's Kate Casey. Nice. Yeah, this has been
funk. You for having appreciate it, Thank you for coming. And now
you have to review something and come on my show. I would love it.
I'll give your homework and then you come out and then you and then
you were a bit apart. I love it. Well, I'm happy to
do it. I mean, off of your recommendation. I watched the Never
Let Him Go and freaking loved it so awesome. I don't think I would
have went and found that if it wasn't for awesome. Yeah, yeah,
I can't wait. Well, now you have to tell me what you think
of Vatican Girl and the Lost Suns. Okay, absolutely, I'm excited.
I done and done. Report back. Okay, thanks so much, Gay,
thank you, thank you, Bye bye, letting Go