WEBVTT

1
00:00:40.399 --> 00:00:47.359
Hello, and welcome to the Open
Mind UFO Radio. We are back from

2
00:00:47.399 --> 00:00:52.399
the holidays. They were crazy and
wild, and we thought we were going

3
00:00:52.439 --> 00:00:55.320
to do a show last week,
but uh, and of course we're on

4
00:00:55.359 --> 00:00:59.880
Tuesday in Sada, Monday today.
Because Jason was our last holiday traveler.

5
00:01:00.159 --> 00:01:04.760
He went to New York City.
How is that cold? But good?

6
00:01:06.280 --> 00:01:11.879
Yeah, extremely cold, not as
cold as uh, Chicago and some other

7
00:01:11.120 --> 00:01:17.400
places that were in the like negative
twenty with the windchill they were saying even

8
00:01:17.480 --> 00:01:21.560
beyond that, they're saying Chicago was
colder than the South Pole. Still sorry

9
00:01:21.599 --> 00:01:25.280
for those guys. Yeah, I
heard about that. That is wild and

10
00:01:25.599 --> 00:01:29.480
crazy staff, but yeah I was
there. Nice nice blizzard. It was

11
00:01:29.519 --> 00:01:34.200
a tropical or winter storm Hercules hit
the East coast and covered us with snow,

12
00:01:34.319 --> 00:01:38.079
and so I guess I got to
see when my wintertime snow, not

13
00:01:38.200 --> 00:01:42.519
something we we typically see in the
Phoenix area, Alejandro, mm hmm.

14
00:01:42.640 --> 00:01:47.799
And which is also kind of ironic
because you usually when it comes to the

15
00:01:47.879 --> 00:01:52.519
name Hercules, it is equated to
something that is warm and cuddly. Oh

16
00:01:52.560 --> 00:01:55.200
I know. Yeah, it was
a funny thing, and that's why I'll

17
00:01:55.239 --> 00:02:00.400
always remember my time in winter storm
Hercules, because Hercules, she's just one

18
00:02:00.400 --> 00:02:04.640
of my dogs, one of your
little fur ball's little cuties. And funny

19
00:02:04.680 --> 00:02:07.879
enough, it was Maureen who had
to deal with Hercules in her own way,

20
00:02:07.919 --> 00:02:12.879
which can be hard because you've got
them ready to go to bed at

21
00:02:12.919 --> 00:02:15.439
eight o'clock. You know, they
have this schedule and boom, they want

22
00:02:15.439 --> 00:02:22.400
it done this way, and and
Maureens efferts the consequences when when she is

23
00:02:22.400 --> 00:02:27.000
not meeting their regular schedule. Well, sometimes she's a good friend. She

24
00:02:27.599 --> 00:02:31.199
fills in on dog dog watch duty, dog duty, dog duty. Yeah,

25
00:02:31.520 --> 00:02:34.960
there's plenty of that in New York. It was funny watching the dogs

26
00:02:34.960 --> 00:02:38.919
in the snow. Yeah, yeah, cool. Well, I'm glad you

27
00:02:38.000 --> 00:02:43.280
made it back safely. Thank goodness
for that. Yeah, you know,

28
00:02:43.400 --> 00:02:46.719
and I was. I was supposed
to meet up with our friendly Spiegel,

29
00:02:46.800 --> 00:02:52.080
but but the weather kind of have
for those plans as well. He got

30
00:02:52.439 --> 00:02:57.280
stuck out out on the island and
so he worked from home and we didn't

31
00:02:57.319 --> 00:03:00.479
get to rendezvous. But still a
good time. Yeah, yeah, and

32
00:03:01.439 --> 00:03:06.520
yeah, I guess he Huffington posting
they mostly stayed home from the weather and

33
00:03:06.639 --> 00:03:09.240
work from home. It sounds like
a lot of businesses there do, and

34
00:03:09.639 --> 00:03:14.680
it depends on the business. I
mean, some just hey, it's normal.

35
00:03:14.879 --> 00:03:17.319
You know, it's cold and awful
and snowy, but that's that's the

36
00:03:17.360 --> 00:03:21.400
way it is here, so deal
with it, business as usual. But

37
00:03:21.520 --> 00:03:27.319
otherre's you know, people love excuses
for snow days. Yeah. I remember

38
00:03:27.360 --> 00:03:30.080
in Colorado, Yeah totally when he
had a snow day. It was like

39
00:03:30.199 --> 00:03:35.319
exciting. It was like, heck, yeah, snow day and you run

40
00:03:35.360 --> 00:03:40.439
outside and be crazy and happy and
even though it's cold and snowy. Yeah.

41
00:03:40.520 --> 00:03:47.680
Well, speaking of Chicago where it's
super cold and snowy, our guest

42
00:03:47.759 --> 00:03:52.680
for today who will be on in
a little bit, it's from that area.

43
00:03:52.719 --> 00:03:55.479
And actually his name is Sam Moronto, and he's a state director for

44
00:03:55.639 --> 00:04:02.719
Illinois Moveline and he's been into UFOs
for a long time. Actually you might

45
00:04:02.719 --> 00:04:08.240
have heard him on Coast to Coast
before, but he has investigated some important

46
00:04:08.280 --> 00:04:13.560
sightings such as a Tinley Park siding
almost like a phoenix lights in the Chicago

47
00:04:13.680 --> 00:04:16.600
area. That was in two thousand
and four, where the mass sighting of

48
00:04:16.600 --> 00:04:24.839
a triangular lights and a couple other
really important sightings from police officers and pilots,

49
00:04:25.000 --> 00:04:30.040
and of course the Chicago hair event
took place out there just a few

50
00:04:30.120 --> 00:04:34.000
years ago, and we'll talk to
him about that as well. So lots

51
00:04:34.040 --> 00:04:40.519
of exciting things to talk to Sam
about today in just a few minutes.

52
00:04:40.560 --> 00:04:46.120
But before that, my good buddy
Jason McClelland and I like to review some

53
00:04:46.240 --> 00:04:49.920
of our favorite stories, or at
least usually a favorite story from the last

54
00:04:50.000 --> 00:04:57.600
couple of weeks. I may hit
on two, maybe not, But Jason,

55
00:04:57.839 --> 00:05:01.279
why don't you go first? What
is a story that you like in

56
00:05:01.319 --> 00:05:05.319
particular from the last couple of weeks. Well, because I just spent a

57
00:05:05.319 --> 00:05:10.360
lot of time in airports and on
airplanes, I'm going to talk about something

58
00:05:10.360 --> 00:05:16.519
here from the last week of twenty
thirteen. There was a UFO that caused

59
00:05:16.560 --> 00:05:25.720
some air traffic problems in Beijing.
The China Civil Aviation Administration picked up a

60
00:05:25.839 --> 00:05:30.839
UFO on radar at the Beijing International
Airport and this caused flights to be diverted,

61
00:05:30.920 --> 00:05:41.079
and they eventually determined that the object
this UFO was a surveillance drone and

62
00:05:41.120 --> 00:05:46.399
we're seeing that more and more,
and it's really dangerous in Slaviia of people

63
00:05:46.439 --> 00:05:50.199
to be flying anything over airports.
You know, the airspace is heavily controlled

64
00:05:50.800 --> 00:05:59.480
and a lot of places have strict
laws against flying anything in that airspace and

65
00:06:00.240 --> 00:06:05.000
people can be fined and jailed quite
severely for breaking that. But we're seeing

66
00:06:05.040 --> 00:06:10.160
more of these UFOs over airports,
and many times they end up being drones

67
00:06:10.279 --> 00:06:14.199
or something like that. But just
just today there was another story about a

68
00:06:14.240 --> 00:06:20.959
similar situation in Germany at an airport
where a UFO appeared multiple times on radar

69
00:06:21.800 --> 00:06:28.319
and authorities were alerted to it,
and people in the tower at the airport,

70
00:06:28.680 --> 00:06:31.959
as well as police officers themselves,
in addition to seeing onto radar,

71
00:06:32.199 --> 00:06:38.959
they saw this UFO with their own
eyes. There hasn't been a physical description

72
00:06:39.079 --> 00:06:43.959
of this object released yet, but
they say it was flying it approximately one

73
00:06:44.000 --> 00:06:48.959
thousand feet. The police went up
in a helicopter and tried to chase this

74
00:06:49.040 --> 00:06:51.319
thing and see what it was,
but by the time they got up there,

75
00:06:51.319 --> 00:06:55.199
they couldn't find the object. They
couldn't see the UFO, so they

76
00:06:55.240 --> 00:07:00.240
searched and eventually called off the search. But so far they haven't been able

77
00:07:00.319 --> 00:07:06.399
to identify what this object was.
And like in Beijing this at the Germany

78
00:07:06.439 --> 00:07:12.480
airport, flights were diverted, traffic
was was hindered by this UFO sighting,

79
00:07:12.519 --> 00:07:15.680
but it appeared on radar and they
haven't been able to determine what it was.

80
00:07:17.600 --> 00:07:25.839
Yeah, pretty interesting, and that
kind of goes into, you know,

81
00:07:25.879 --> 00:07:28.480
the story which is kind of making
some rounds in the last couple of

82
00:07:28.519 --> 00:07:31.240
days too, that we reported on
the day after Christmas. But actually I

83
00:07:31.279 --> 00:07:35.560
got this story from the Daily Mirror
so and they wrote it on December twenty

84
00:07:35.600 --> 00:07:41.240
second, So it's kind of surprising
that, you know, this story is

85
00:07:41.319 --> 00:07:44.600
making it big off of a sudden
again, you know, weeks later after

86
00:07:44.759 --> 00:07:49.000
Daily Mire talked about it, and
which is one in London sort of near

87
00:07:49.120 --> 00:07:56.079
Heathrow Airport. It didn't affect airport
traffic at all, but it was in

88
00:07:56.120 --> 00:08:01.160
the London area where Yeah, pilot
looks up, he sees he ducks and

89
00:08:01.199 --> 00:08:07.560
then grabs his co pilot and then
says, hey, did you see that?

90
00:08:07.680 --> 00:08:11.319
Co pilot says no, he's kind
of freaking out. Eventually, they

91
00:08:11.360 --> 00:08:18.040
actually turn it into the air PROCs
Board, who investigates near missus. They

92
00:08:18.079 --> 00:08:20.439
looked into it and they couldn't figure
out what it might have been. They

93
00:08:20.480 --> 00:08:26.120
considered certain things like a drone or
balloon or anything, but they were too

94
00:08:26.160 --> 00:08:28.759
high for that. In the end, they just decided, we don't know

95
00:08:28.800 --> 00:08:33.440
what the heck it was. But
that was also, I think a really

96
00:08:33.639 --> 00:08:39.720
interesting case because nobody's determined what it
was that this guy saw, and he

97
00:08:39.840 --> 00:08:48.000
was so adamant that what he had
seen was strange cigar shape that he felt

98
00:08:48.039 --> 00:08:52.279
he should report it. So along
with this Germany, when I mean these

99
00:08:52.799 --> 00:09:05.639
civilian pilot sightings or civilian aviations sightings
are really interesting because unfortunately, as we

100
00:09:05.759 --> 00:09:07.759
know, the military is kind of
lacked up. They're not really looking into

101
00:09:07.799 --> 00:09:11.799
this stuff even in the UK,
So where we get this information from these

102
00:09:11.799 --> 00:09:18.039
civilian sources when they want to share
that information, so kind of cool.

103
00:09:18.279 --> 00:09:22.039
Yeah, the Germany one's cool that
you know, we hear from air traffic

104
00:09:22.039 --> 00:09:24.919
controllers that you know, they did
definitely see it on radar multiple times.

105
00:09:24.960 --> 00:09:30.000
They saw it with their own eyes
through binoculars, and the police saw it

106
00:09:30.039 --> 00:09:33.039
and actively investigated. And I believe
we're still investigating this case trying to find

107
00:09:33.039 --> 00:09:39.000
out what it was over the airport, and there's a perfect example of a

108
00:09:39.039 --> 00:09:43.279
place where I believe, you know, people breaching that airspace can face up

109
00:09:43.320 --> 00:09:46.240
to something like ten years in prison, so you know, they take it

110
00:09:46.360 --> 00:09:50.879
very seriously and it's great to see
that. And we love the UK stories

111
00:09:50.919 --> 00:09:56.960
too because they have that UK air
PROCs board board that they're they're tasked with

112
00:09:56.200 --> 00:10:01.519
investigating these near misses and it's scary
how often he's near misses actually occur.

113
00:10:01.799 --> 00:10:07.879
You know, it's very scary not
knowing what's in airspace and it is causing

114
00:10:07.279 --> 00:10:13.000
potential harm to people. So yeah, we've written quite a few stories about

115
00:10:13.039 --> 00:10:18.159
the air proc sport in the UK
because nearly they do they meet I think

116
00:10:18.200 --> 00:10:22.879
it to buy yearly twice a year
and they review the cases of near misses

117
00:10:22.080 --> 00:10:28.360
and for safety concerns and I think
it and practically every single one of their

118
00:10:28.840 --> 00:10:35.240
reports there's been at least one you
know, unidentified object where it's it's not

119
00:10:35.399 --> 00:10:37.639
just something they didn't know what it
was, where they thought it was probably

120
00:10:37.639 --> 00:10:41.879
a burder balloon. They have though, certainly, but there are cases like

121
00:10:41.919 --> 00:10:46.159
this where the pilots see something unusual
like a disc or in one case,

122
00:10:46.200 --> 00:10:52.159
a black triangle or some of these
incredible things that you know people typically report

123
00:10:52.360 --> 00:10:56.799
as UFOs. These pilots see them
and they almost hit them or almost get

124
00:10:56.840 --> 00:11:01.720
hit by them, and then report
those and that every time the air proc

125
00:11:01.799 --> 00:11:05.759
spoard usually comes up with we don't
know what it was either. You're right,

126
00:11:05.879 --> 00:11:11.480
and you know, they do in
many of those cases take into account

127
00:11:11.559 --> 00:11:15.919
and they mentioned it in the reports
that you know, we considered the possibility

128
00:11:15.919 --> 00:11:20.840
of it being a drone or a
balloon. But even after considering that and

129
00:11:20.879 --> 00:11:24.200
looking into it, investigating the case, they rule those out. You know,

130
00:11:24.200 --> 00:11:28.080
they say, yeah, it's a
possibility, but not likely. We've

131
00:11:28.080 --> 00:11:31.679
determined that it's not likely, and
therefore we have no idea. We don't

132
00:11:31.679 --> 00:11:35.960
know, right. I love seeing
that, you know, they still have

133
00:11:35.120 --> 00:11:39.120
unknowns. I mean, I love
seeing it. It's scary, but I

134
00:11:39.399 --> 00:11:41.919
do love seeing it that, you
know, they they are going on a

135
00:11:41.960 --> 00:11:46.000
record saying that, hey, they
are unidentified objects. We don't know what

136
00:11:46.039 --> 00:11:50.000
these things are. They're in our
airspace and hopefully, you know, more

137
00:11:50.679 --> 00:11:56.000
more of these will come out and
that will encourage official investigation to happen,

138
00:11:56.799 --> 00:12:01.559
you know, on a more global
scale. Mm hmm, yeah, I

139
00:12:01.600 --> 00:12:03.480
mean. And what I think is
interesting though too, with all of these

140
00:12:03.480 --> 00:12:07.879
near misses which has gone on since
you know, the forties, even you

141
00:12:07.879 --> 00:12:11.799
know, the Foo fighter stuff.
They have near misses. But what I

142
00:12:11.840 --> 00:12:18.879
think is interesting, and some researchers
may disagree, I know, but I

143
00:12:18.960 --> 00:12:24.960
don't think there's ever been a case
where there's been evidence that any aircraft has

144
00:12:24.000 --> 00:12:33.039
been hit by any of these unknowns, and so it's it's it comes to

145
00:12:33.159 --> 00:12:35.399
question, why are they doing this? You know, why do they mess

146
00:12:35.440 --> 00:12:39.759
with us? Why do they they
veer off at the last minute. It

147
00:12:39.799 --> 00:12:43.879
would make sense they have the technology
not to hit us, and they don't.

148
00:12:43.000 --> 00:12:48.159
But then why did they fly so
close to these aircraft? It's kind

149
00:12:48.159 --> 00:12:52.159
of it's kind of brings up a
lot of interesting questions. I think it

150
00:12:52.200 --> 00:13:00.120
does. And you know, you
can hear all sorts of varying opinions and

151
00:13:01.159 --> 00:13:05.720
whether or not planes have been hit
by these UFOs. You know, we

152
00:13:05.799 --> 00:13:09.960
hear many stories about collisions with birds
and people don't want to believe that it

153
00:13:09.039 --> 00:13:15.320
was actually birds. And yeah,
there was the Air China jet from last

154
00:13:15.399 --> 00:13:18.480
year with the nose cone damage and
people thought it hit a UFO, but

155
00:13:20.080 --> 00:13:24.360
you know, the official explanations was
that it was most likely was it the

156
00:13:24.720 --> 00:13:28.320
radar or something. Well, there
were lots of pilots who said, this

157
00:13:28.440 --> 00:13:33.960
is kind of common where there's a
radar in the nose and when it malfunctioned

158
00:13:35.120 --> 00:13:39.919
that it will cause the nose to
implode like that. So it was a

159
00:13:39.039 --> 00:13:45.480
very fairly common thing. Strange looking, but common, right. So,

160
00:13:45.960 --> 00:13:48.120
and you know one of those people
who would disagree, and he may be

161
00:13:48.240 --> 00:13:52.320
speaking about this is Timothy Good who's
been a researcher for a long time,

162
00:13:52.360 --> 00:13:58.600
but he feels that there have been
aircraft down by UFOs and he'll be speaking

163
00:13:58.639 --> 00:14:03.080
at the Congress in just a few
weeks. Yeah, that's coming up very

164
00:14:03.159 --> 00:14:07.799
quickly. I wanted to mention too, just because it's a funny aspect to

165
00:14:07.840 --> 00:14:11.440
this story, and I didn't I
don't think you mentioned it, but you

166
00:14:11.480 --> 00:14:16.480
talked about how there are legal ramifications
for flying drones near airports, and the

167
00:14:18.519 --> 00:14:22.440
people who were doing it in Beijing
were some workers. You know, they

168
00:14:22.480 --> 00:14:26.039
work for a company. They use
these drones to survey areas for building and

169
00:14:26.080 --> 00:14:31.639
stuff like that, and once they
figured out who it was, they arrested

170
00:14:31.679 --> 00:14:35.240
those guys. Yeah. Yeah,
so they were arrested even though you know,

171
00:14:35.279 --> 00:14:39.279
they've worked for a private company and
they're just doing their job or you

172
00:14:39.279 --> 00:14:43.759
know, they should have known the
laws better, and they got arrested for

173
00:14:43.840 --> 00:14:48.879
flying that drone around the airport.
Yeah, that's right. Well, sir,

174
00:14:48.919 --> 00:14:52.759
what is your story of the week? My story of the week.

175
00:14:52.000 --> 00:14:56.159
Are you ready for it? I
think I am? Are you ready for

176
00:14:56.240 --> 00:14:58.480
it? All? Right? Do
it? Well? My story for the

177
00:14:58.519 --> 00:15:05.480
week is actually I wanted to ask
you about did you get a look at

178
00:15:05.480 --> 00:15:07.919
the UFO. I'm kind of putting
you on the spot. I guess the

179
00:15:07.039 --> 00:15:11.120
UFO hotspots story I did? I
did? Okay, cool, because I'd

180
00:15:11.120 --> 00:15:15.600
like to talk about that one.
So what I did, And I've done

181
00:15:15.639 --> 00:15:18.559
this before, so listeners who have
been listening for well a few years,

182
00:15:18.720 --> 00:15:22.360
well, no, I do this
pretty much every year where I take the

183
00:15:22.480 --> 00:15:26.799
move on data and I throw it
into an Excel and I play with it

184
00:15:26.879 --> 00:15:30.279
to figure out, you know,
where the sidings have been, and then

185
00:15:30.399 --> 00:15:33.399
play with find if I can find
any sort of trends or anything. So

186
00:15:35.600 --> 00:15:39.120
the way I put together data is
typically well, and I did it this

187
00:15:39.240 --> 00:15:46.039
time, is by where the most
sightings are and then also where the most

188
00:15:46.039 --> 00:15:52.639
sightings are per person, So finding
out where are there more sightings per person

189
00:15:52.440 --> 00:15:58.440
versus just how many sightings there are, because typically the number of sightings are

190
00:15:58.519 --> 00:16:03.679
higher there are more people, which
makes sense. So if you have so

191
00:16:03.799 --> 00:16:08.360
that's not necessarily an accurate representation,
because you're always gonna have California, Texas,

192
00:16:08.399 --> 00:16:12.960
New York, all these highly populated
areas towards the top. But the

193
00:16:12.960 --> 00:16:17.559
per person kind of shows, you
know, where are there an inordinate amount

194
00:16:17.639 --> 00:16:21.559
of sidings for the number of people
out there to find more hot spots?

195
00:16:21.919 --> 00:16:25.799
And really, you know, for
the number of sidings, we had California's

196
00:16:25.879 --> 00:16:29.039
number one, then Florida, Texas, Pennsylvania, Michigan, New York,

197
00:16:29.960 --> 00:16:33.440
Ohio, Arizona, not surprising.
But when you do it for a per

198
00:16:33.559 --> 00:16:38.519
person, you have Maine, Vermont, Arizona, New Mexico, New Hampshire,

199
00:16:38.600 --> 00:16:44.240
Michigan, and Colorado. So which
is sort of similar to when I've

200
00:16:44.240 --> 00:16:48.240
done this before. When you look
at the actual number of sidings that they

201
00:16:48.279 --> 00:16:55.600
have gotten, if you look at
like Maine or Vermont, they're pretty low.

202
00:16:55.639 --> 00:16:59.000
So Vermont doesn't have very many people, so they had twenty five sidings,

203
00:16:59.480 --> 00:17:03.119
which you know, they don't need
very many sightings to throw that per

204
00:17:03.119 --> 00:17:07.599
person number higher. But here again, you know, our home state,

205
00:17:07.720 --> 00:17:14.359
Arizona had two hundred and sixty one
sidings, which is nearly four sightings per

206
00:17:14.359 --> 00:17:17.599
one hundred thousand persons. But it
puts it at the top of the list.

207
00:17:17.720 --> 00:17:22.240
You could really say Arizona is definitely
a hot spot. Yet again,

208
00:17:23.240 --> 00:17:29.039
other states where I think you could
comfortably say that our New Mexico, Michigan,

209
00:17:30.000 --> 00:17:36.359
Colorado, Washington, Oregon, so
kind of interesting, Washington, and

210
00:17:36.839 --> 00:17:41.599
then Missouri's up there too, But
Washington and Oregon. You know, I

211
00:17:41.599 --> 00:17:44.640
think this is really interesting, and
this is kind of something you don't care

212
00:17:44.680 --> 00:17:48.160
a lot about, but we do. We get people from Washington and Oregon,

213
00:17:48.200 --> 00:17:52.240
and I've heard from people in Washington
Oregon area to say they have sidings

214
00:17:52.279 --> 00:17:56.920
up there all of the time.
I really think that's and lots of times

215
00:17:56.920 --> 00:18:00.759
these numbers reflect that. I really
think, yeah, kind of is a

216
00:18:00.759 --> 00:18:04.880
hotspot area that is not something that
is talked about, but is reflected over

217
00:18:04.920 --> 00:18:11.400
and over again anecdotally and in these
numbers. And then places like the southwest,

218
00:18:11.440 --> 00:18:15.559
Arizona, Colorado, New Mexico,
those I've always found to be hot

219
00:18:15.599 --> 00:18:18.440
spots when I run the numbers,
and so that's not too surprising, but

220
00:18:18.960 --> 00:18:22.160
so it's kind of interesting to run
this stuff again. Yeah, I'm so

221
00:18:22.200 --> 00:18:25.279
glad you do it every year,
and you're right. I mean, you

222
00:18:25.319 --> 00:18:29.119
can look at just number of sightings
and you know, take it for what

223
00:18:29.119 --> 00:18:33.000
it's worth, but I think it's
more more valuable to look at it based

224
00:18:33.039 --> 00:18:37.359
on the population. So you're breaking
it out like that really does help and

225
00:18:37.720 --> 00:18:41.519
paints a better picture. And yeah, you're right. I mean, it's

226
00:18:41.559 --> 00:18:48.599
it's very similar year after year where
we see the true hotspots and that Pacific

227
00:18:48.680 --> 00:18:52.440
Northwest, you know, along the
coast of Oregon. Lots of interesting stories

228
00:18:52.480 --> 00:18:56.319
out there, And you're right,
you know, depending on on the region

229
00:18:56.319 --> 00:19:03.480
you're in, you know, the
local communities, there are some pockets there

230
00:19:03.519 --> 00:19:07.079
where people are very used to seeing
UFOs and say it's a normal occurrence,

231
00:19:07.559 --> 00:19:11.920
and uh yeah, some really interesting
stories and you're right, you don't hear

232
00:19:11.200 --> 00:19:15.359
too much about that. There are
there are stories and some people talking about

233
00:19:15.599 --> 00:19:21.359
those areas as hotspots, but not
as much as you hear other places like

234
00:19:21.400 --> 00:19:26.279
New Mexico, Arizona, Colorado,
or even sometimes other areas that you know,

235
00:19:26.319 --> 00:19:33.240
it seems like practically every state you
know and countries, they like to

236
00:19:33.240 --> 00:19:37.680
write stories where they claim they're a
hot spot because they get sightings, and

237
00:19:37.880 --> 00:19:41.279
to a reporter who's not in the
know, they may think, wow,

238
00:19:41.319 --> 00:19:44.960
it doesn't sightings. That's a lot
we must be a hot spot. Little

239
00:19:45.000 --> 00:19:48.279
did they know. There's lots of
reportings all over the country. I mean,

240
00:19:48.319 --> 00:19:53.119
what we're talking about here is Moufon
got nearly seventy five hundred sidings in

241
00:19:53.240 --> 00:20:00.000
twenty thirteen. Are over seventy five
hundred, and about a thousand of those

242
00:20:00.039 --> 00:20:03.640
a little more were in other countries, and then about sixty five hundred of

243
00:20:03.680 --> 00:20:07.240
those were in the United States.
So that's a lot of freaking sightings,

244
00:20:07.279 --> 00:20:11.720
a whole lot of sightings. You're
right. It's funny when you'll see local

245
00:20:11.759 --> 00:20:17.160
papers or something talking about sightings and
they'll do some research and find out there

246
00:20:17.200 --> 00:20:22.920
about other sightings in that particular city, and they'll see, we're apparently a

247
00:20:22.039 --> 00:20:27.079
UFO hotspot. We've had four sightings
in the last ten years. Yeah,

248
00:20:27.119 --> 00:20:30.599
all right, Yeah, it's kind
of funny. So a couple other things

249
00:20:30.599 --> 00:20:33.519
I did list the different kind of
shapes I did have that, so that

250
00:20:33.680 --> 00:20:38.640
was somewhat interesting. Mostly people saw
spears and circles or starlike which makes sense,

251
00:20:38.680 --> 00:20:42.680
and then triangles and fireballs were up
there. But I didn't find anything

252
00:20:44.160 --> 00:20:48.000
too interesting even when I looked at
that month by month. The other interesting

253
00:20:48.039 --> 00:20:52.640
thing I did find, though,
is that for twenty thirteen, there was

254
00:20:52.640 --> 00:20:57.119
definitely a spike in August, and
I took out there was a spike overall

255
00:20:57.160 --> 00:21:00.440
in August, so I decided to
find out that was just in the US

256
00:21:00.559 --> 00:21:06.200
or also non US areas, so
I pulled that out separately, and even

257
00:21:06.240 --> 00:21:10.240
in non US reports there was a
spike in August. So definitely a spike

258
00:21:10.599 --> 00:21:14.319
in sightings in August, which is
kind of interesting. I didn't see any

259
00:21:14.400 --> 00:21:17.799
differences when I looked at the type
of objects that we reported. It was

260
00:21:17.880 --> 00:21:23.200
kind of similar to any other month. But that was kind of interesting,

261
00:21:23.240 --> 00:21:27.000
So that would be fun to kind
of explore some more. Also, I

262
00:21:27.039 --> 00:21:33.759
think it's it's typical to see more
sightings in the summer and in the US.

263
00:21:33.880 --> 00:21:38.480
You know, some people credit that
to summer box office movies that might

264
00:21:38.519 --> 00:21:42.400
have to do an extraterrestrial themes,
and we did have a lot of sidelines,

265
00:21:44.559 --> 00:21:49.279
but you know, that's certainly possibility
and can account for some of those,

266
00:21:49.319 --> 00:21:55.079
I'm sure. But I'm of the
opinion that, you know, the

267
00:21:55.119 --> 00:21:59.039
weather is typically better in the summer
for people, and therefore you have more

268
00:21:59.079 --> 00:22:03.839
people outside, and therefore you have
more people who might see or be looking

269
00:22:03.839 --> 00:22:07.920
at the sky. Yeah, I'm
with you. That's also, you know,

270
00:22:07.240 --> 00:22:14.440
a good reason for why places like
New Mexico, Arizona have more sightings

271
00:22:14.519 --> 00:22:18.839
because you generally have warmer weather and
people are outside and therefore looking at the

272
00:22:18.839 --> 00:22:22.599
sky more than people would be in
like Chicago right now, where it's very

273
00:22:22.680 --> 00:22:27.440
very cold. Yeah. The skeptics, the hardcore skeptics, And we should

274
00:22:27.759 --> 00:22:32.039
come up with our own term for
those hardcores. I mean the ones who

275
00:22:32.079 --> 00:22:36.519
are just they won't believe anything,
you know, they're not really open minded

276
00:22:36.559 --> 00:22:40.839
skeptics. The closed minded skeptics.
They like to, you know, blame

277
00:22:40.920 --> 00:22:45.359
movies for everything. This whole phenomena
is because of sci fi movies. But

278
00:22:45.640 --> 00:22:48.960
I'm with you. I might have
a slight effect, but I think that

279
00:22:48.480 --> 00:22:53.839
the clear skies would have a much
larger effect, or that would be a

280
00:22:53.839 --> 00:23:00.160
bigger reason why there are more sightings
in August than movies. People can go

281
00:23:00.240 --> 00:23:03.920
to the siding, to the to
the look at this story. It's just

282
00:23:03.960 --> 00:23:11.000
called UFO Hotspots of twenty thirteen,
and I did list every single state and

283
00:23:11.079 --> 00:23:15.319
the number of sidings they have and
then the number of reports they have per

284
00:23:15.319 --> 00:23:19.480
one hundred k people. So you
can go look at that to see where

285
00:23:19.559 --> 00:23:27.200
your state fits there, and it
looks like at the bottom, which is

286
00:23:27.200 --> 00:23:33.720
the most interesting Georgia, Georgia,
Virginia and New York City, we're pretty

287
00:23:33.759 --> 00:23:37.039
low. But of course, having
been to New York for the first time

288
00:23:37.079 --> 00:23:41.039
in the last few months, and
you knowing because you've been living you've lived

289
00:23:41.079 --> 00:23:45.039
there before, you can't see a
lot of sky past the skyscrapers in that's

290
00:23:45.119 --> 00:23:52.200
right in many areas. All right, Well, thank you mister McClellan.

291
00:23:52.400 --> 00:23:56.519
As usual, it's an absolute pleasure, and I'm sure the listeners are very

292
00:23:56.559 --> 00:24:00.680
excited to hear your voice again.
Always my pleasure to talk with you,

293
00:24:00.720 --> 00:24:04.400
Alejandro, and you know, we've
had some great stories, so it's it's

294
00:24:04.400 --> 00:24:08.480
always fun talking with you and everyone
else about these great stories. Yeah,

295
00:24:08.559 --> 00:24:12.519
looking forward to the conference too.
It's coming up really quick. Yeah,

296
00:24:12.640 --> 00:24:17.240
the International UFO Congress is right around
the corner. So very excited about that

297
00:24:17.279 --> 00:24:22.640
and very excited to see as many
listeners there as possible. And as we

298
00:24:22.759 --> 00:24:26.599
always say, feel free to come
up and say hello because we love chatting

299
00:24:26.599 --> 00:24:30.240
with you for the brief periods of
three seconds we have while we're running around

300
00:24:30.960 --> 00:24:36.240
making sure everything is mostly working there
so mm hmm. I was just gonna

301
00:24:36.279 --> 00:24:37.480
say, they can come up and
give you a hug, but I shouldn't

302
00:24:37.519 --> 00:24:41.160
say that because that's your personal space. It's only bade my personal space.

303
00:24:41.480 --> 00:24:45.680
So you'll at least shake their hand
though, right, yeah, and then

304
00:24:45.039 --> 00:24:48.319
I might go in for the hug. We'll see, all right, cool?

305
00:24:48.880 --> 00:24:51.640
All right, you heard it here, get your free hugs from Jason

306
00:24:51.680 --> 00:24:57.240
McClellan at the UFO Congress this year. I didn't hear that, all right,

307
00:24:57.440 --> 00:25:04.559
Well, moving on, let us
hear some interesting insights and stories from

308
00:25:04.680 --> 00:25:11.400
a longtime UFO investigator, a really
cool guy and actually he's been a friend

309
00:25:11.400 --> 00:25:15.400
for quite some time, and I'm
really surprised that he hasn't been on the

310
00:25:15.440 --> 00:25:19.799
show until now. I know we
were trying to schedule it in the past

311
00:25:19.839 --> 00:25:23.799
and just couldn't make things work.
So I'm really happy we were this time.

312
00:25:23.839 --> 00:25:30.079
So let's hear from Sam Moronto.
I am very excited to have Sam

313
00:25:30.160 --> 00:25:33.759
Moronto on the phone. I'm known
him for quite some time. And you

314
00:25:33.880 --> 00:25:38.039
run Illinois. Move on out there, hello U Sam. Yes, it

315
00:25:38.119 --> 00:25:44.000
is both my privilege and honor to
be the director of the State of Illinois,

316
00:25:44.119 --> 00:25:47.599
and it's also a privilege and honor
to be on the show with my

317
00:25:47.640 --> 00:25:51.559
good friend. I haven't seen in
ages, though, I have to say

318
00:25:51.559 --> 00:25:56.319
you have a great show. Listen
to it quite regularly and oh I love

319
00:25:56.359 --> 00:25:59.680
Opened Minds some magazines is great.
Well, you know when I started the

320
00:25:59.720 --> 00:26:03.359
showh, I remember you were one
of the people I wanted to get on

321
00:26:03.799 --> 00:26:07.839
at the very beginning, but something
happened. I think we tried to schedule

322
00:26:07.880 --> 00:26:12.440
something and it it just didn't work
out. And surprisingly it's taken this along

323
00:26:12.559 --> 00:26:17.279
to have you on the show finally
here, and I'm sure we could cover

324
00:26:17.359 --> 00:26:19.160
a lot of territory and if not, I'd be more to have to come

325
00:26:19.200 --> 00:26:22.319
back anytime. Yeah, that would
be great. I'm sure that will be

326
00:26:22.400 --> 00:26:27.000
warranted because you've been in this for
a long time. So I guess let's

327
00:26:27.000 --> 00:26:33.920
just start off with that. What
got you into UFO research? I had.

328
00:26:34.160 --> 00:26:37.680
I had my first experience in nineteen
fifty nine with something that could be

329
00:26:37.920 --> 00:26:45.960
called an unidentified aerial phenomena up at
Fox Lake where I was standing near a

330
00:26:45.960 --> 00:26:48.720
body of water. It's basically a
channel at back my uncle's cottage that he

331
00:26:48.799 --> 00:26:53.720
was building. He had put a
new oh, he drilled and they had

332
00:26:53.759 --> 00:26:57.640
they drilled a new well up front, and of course Sammy being you know,

333
00:26:59.160 --> 00:27:03.559
interested to see there really was water
down There was dropping stones and things

334
00:27:03.599 --> 00:27:04.880
down there. So he's yelling at
me as a get out of there.

335
00:27:06.079 --> 00:27:07.960
So I run on the back by
the channel. I'm throwing rocks in the

336
00:27:08.000 --> 00:27:11.160
water, you know, a little
kid. All of a sudden, there's

337
00:27:11.200 --> 00:27:18.160
this brilliant self aluminous orb comes flying
over my right shoulder, goes in back

338
00:27:18.200 --> 00:27:22.880
of a tree next door, comes
back out, and it became very dark.

339
00:27:22.920 --> 00:27:26.880
I was just I felt heat my
whole body. The sensation was that

340
00:27:26.079 --> 00:27:33.480
of heat. I felt shocked.
And then my aunt came back and was

341
00:27:33.519 --> 00:27:36.680
looking for me. She goes,
where have you been all this time?

342
00:27:36.759 --> 00:27:40.920
I've been looking for you for hours. I'm like what, and it's all

343
00:27:41.039 --> 00:27:44.799
dark out. I have no idea
what transpired. Wow, But that event

344
00:27:45.039 --> 00:27:49.160
led to other different things that I
couldn't even talk about for many, many

345
00:27:49.240 --> 00:27:55.319
years, Alejandro, many years.
And actually how I got interested into the

346
00:27:55.359 --> 00:27:57.920
subject, but that was my first
encounter with something I'd have to say is

347
00:27:59.240 --> 00:28:06.599
an anonymous serial phenomena. How I
got interested into the subject matter was one

348
00:28:06.680 --> 00:28:11.319
morning I was woken either by the
smell of my mother cooking breakfast, or

349
00:28:11.440 --> 00:28:15.480
the sound of my father talking in
the kitchen pretty loud and excited. Probably

350
00:28:15.519 --> 00:28:19.440
both things woke me up. And
I got into the kitchen, sat down

351
00:28:19.599 --> 00:28:26.000
and I looked at the table and
he's talking about some clients that he was

352
00:28:26.039 --> 00:28:30.400
a music teacher and he gave lessons
at their home. So he went to

353
00:28:30.680 --> 00:28:37.519
a client's house and the father and
the son were both amateur astronomers. Got

354
00:28:37.559 --> 00:28:40.839
to the front door, ring the
doorbell. The wife says, going to

355
00:28:40.920 --> 00:28:42.960
back there looking at something in the
sky. He was like, what's going

356
00:28:44.000 --> 00:28:47.599
on. They go out there and
there's some objects flying around that we're doing

357
00:28:47.640 --> 00:28:51.599
some pretty interesting maneuvers, and he
goes, what are these things? And

358
00:28:51.640 --> 00:28:56.519
they handed in binoculars and they go, well, we think they're UFOs,

359
00:28:56.559 --> 00:29:00.279
And he goes, what's that?
And they walked into the house. They

360
00:29:00.319 --> 00:29:03.559
had the magazine and a book and
that was on the table. I became

361
00:29:03.599 --> 00:29:07.160
immediately engrossed in it, but little
today. No. They gave me the

362
00:29:07.240 --> 00:29:11.400
adventure of a lifetime, and that
was around nineteen sixty three or sixty four.

363
00:29:11.440 --> 00:29:15.319
I gave my first presentation on UFOs. I believe it was nineteen sixty

364
00:29:15.319 --> 00:29:22.440
seven. To my seventh grade classmates. Oh wow, so ever since you

365
00:29:22.480 --> 00:29:27.480
were a little guy so in fifty
nine that event that happened. I mean

366
00:29:27.519 --> 00:29:33.640
it sounds like a typical kind of
missing time situation. Yes it was.

367
00:29:33.720 --> 00:29:36.839
In fact, it frightened me so
bad when I came home that night.

368
00:29:36.880 --> 00:29:41.400
It was Sunday, and leave it. What was it? Dennis the Menace

369
00:29:41.640 --> 00:29:47.039
was on, I believe around eight
o'clock, seven o'clock Central on Sundays,

370
00:29:47.279 --> 00:29:49.400
and I came in. I always
watched the show, and myma goes,

371
00:29:49.400 --> 00:29:52.960
you're gonna watch it. Nope.
I went right to bed, jumped in

372
00:29:52.000 --> 00:29:56.799
the bed, covered my head up, my cover my head with the blankets.

373
00:29:56.240 --> 00:30:00.599
I was just so frightened I couldn't
even I just wanted to get about

374
00:30:00.640 --> 00:30:06.599
whatever transpired. But that is what
took place. I've had a number of

375
00:30:06.640 --> 00:30:11.319
sidings thereafter, luckily with other witnesses, which to me. You know,

376
00:30:11.400 --> 00:30:15.119
when it comes to a case,
if it's just a siding by yourself,

377
00:30:15.119 --> 00:30:18.519
it's a story you have. No, it's very difficult to get to some

378
00:30:18.640 --> 00:30:23.759
sort of collaboration. Now if you
have multiple people with your at least a

379
00:30:23.799 --> 00:30:30.799
witness, and better yet multiple witnesses
and independent ones maybe from different vantage points.

380
00:30:30.839 --> 00:30:33.000
That adds far more credence credance to
it. And then when you have

381
00:30:33.440 --> 00:30:38.440
photographs and other bits of evidence and
that is evidence, it all builds up

382
00:30:40.000 --> 00:30:44.079
and I think then it takes on
what may very well be a case,

383
00:30:44.799 --> 00:30:49.559
right right. And I think that's
one of the difficult things I found when

384
00:30:49.599 --> 00:30:55.519
I was an investigator. It's worth
reporting if you have your own sighting as

385
00:30:55.559 --> 00:31:00.720
a single individual, but sometimes they
get really excited and and they they don't

386
00:31:00.759 --> 00:31:04.440
know what they expect out of an
investigator, but they want something, and

387
00:31:04.559 --> 00:31:07.440
it's it's often difficult when you can
say, well, it's great, you

388
00:31:07.480 --> 00:31:11.559
know, we recorded it, but
unfortunately I don't have any answer as to

389
00:31:11.599 --> 00:31:15.519
what it was, except that it
does sound unusual. I think, you

390
00:31:15.559 --> 00:31:21.119
know. The other aspect is the
repercussion. Many times they if they don't

391
00:31:21.200 --> 00:31:25.880
hear that it's something from another planet
and that you know, this was the

392
00:31:26.039 --> 00:31:30.519
case, this is the smoking gun, they become anything, you know,

393
00:31:30.759 --> 00:31:37.839
anything but cordial. I had one
instance, in fact, the individual will

394
00:31:37.839 --> 00:31:41.759
move to Arizona in the last few
years, and this person was ardented that

395
00:31:41.960 --> 00:31:48.960
these photographs that she took were the
smoking gun, and they were anything but

396
00:31:48.960 --> 00:31:56.240
but they did have some interesting characteristics
that shared similarities to other photographs of known

397
00:31:56.319 --> 00:31:59.960
cases, and that in itself,
I think is important to find the care

398
00:32:00.200 --> 00:32:07.440
touristics and photographs and various forms of
evidence and let the evidence and the characteristics

399
00:32:07.480 --> 00:32:10.599
speak for themselves. And it could
and it probably was a smoking gun for

400
00:32:10.680 --> 00:32:16.400
her in that those events are life
changing for an individual. Yes, And

401
00:32:16.480 --> 00:32:22.640
I think people then very quickly understand
the frustration for people who investigate this with

402
00:32:23.400 --> 00:32:30.759
some of the incredible trying to communicate
the incredible evidence that is out there to

403
00:32:30.880 --> 00:32:37.240
people who are skeptical or not sure
and just not getting the same reaction from

404
00:32:37.359 --> 00:32:42.400
others when it's something you feel is
extraordinary. Sure, and the thing is

405
00:32:42.799 --> 00:32:45.240
to be there and be in person, be in the person's shoe, and

406
00:32:45.400 --> 00:32:49.440
to experience it. The other thing
is to experience with the same ken.

407
00:32:50.079 --> 00:32:52.240
Now, if they have you understand
there, well, I always say,

408
00:32:52.279 --> 00:32:55.279
you know that if you walk in
their moccasins, will walk in their moccasins.

409
00:32:55.279 --> 00:32:58.960
You'd have to know their culture,
You'd have to know their education.

410
00:32:59.519 --> 00:33:07.039
They're a physical composition, their life's
experience. Also their sensorial ability to feel

411
00:33:07.680 --> 00:33:15.480
too, sense and to analyze the
information coming into their brain. So the

412
00:33:15.559 --> 00:33:20.799
thing is, you can't you know, reality is a personal, a personal

413
00:33:20.880 --> 00:33:23.119
experience. We all share our own
little realities. Of course, there are

414
00:33:23.160 --> 00:33:28.039
some common ground, but it's not
as common as we think. Same thing

415
00:33:28.079 --> 00:33:31.839
with color. We're not sure if
color is perceived exactly the same by each

416
00:33:31.839 --> 00:33:36.839
and every one of us. We
know the wavelengths, you know from sensory

417
00:33:36.920 --> 00:33:40.960
information, you know instrumentation. But
the bottom line is we have our own

418
00:33:42.680 --> 00:33:47.079
realities and if it's extraordinary to some
person may be very ordinary to me.

419
00:33:47.640 --> 00:33:52.599
That's where I think the term in
terms of not terminology that we use,

420
00:33:52.920 --> 00:33:57.960
say extraterrestrial versus alien, This is
where we really need to sort out terms

421
00:33:58.200 --> 00:34:05.160
and be far more analytical use of
them. Right, Yeah, that causes

422
00:34:05.160 --> 00:34:09.559
a lot of issues. But I
wanted to also ask about getting back to

423
00:34:09.760 --> 00:34:14.559
the fifty nine experience. Have you
ever explored it to try to figure out

424
00:34:15.880 --> 00:34:21.440
what had happened to you during that
time? Well, what had happened thereafter,

425
00:34:21.559 --> 00:34:28.039
I think may have given some light
to some of the episodes that transpired

426
00:34:28.840 --> 00:34:35.880
or that initial episode what had happened
was would be commonly referred to as visitations

427
00:34:35.920 --> 00:34:39.920
of some sort. And I've never
talked about this, but I think I

428
00:34:39.920 --> 00:34:47.280
could talk to you about it,
and more than happy to The beings or

429
00:34:47.320 --> 00:34:52.880
whatever you want to call them,
would be classified today, I guess much

430
00:34:53.000 --> 00:34:59.519
like grays that I had seen thereafter. So, in other words, after

431
00:34:59.559 --> 00:35:09.159
this instances incident, there was visitations
by what we referred to graves, and

432
00:35:09.280 --> 00:35:19.159
I referred to them as looking like
cooties. There was a little plastic composite

433
00:35:19.320 --> 00:35:22.320
toy like. I think it was
the same company that made it. May

434
00:35:22.320 --> 00:35:25.519
have been Bettel, the mister potato
head that made this cooty thing. It

435
00:35:25.519 --> 00:35:30.920
looked like an insect. Yeah that
nah, Yeah, I don't remember the

436
00:35:30.960 --> 00:35:36.079
cot Yeah, it shows our age, buddy. Well, the cootie thing

437
00:35:36.400 --> 00:35:40.079
is what it reminded me of.
And I remember talking to Darryl Simms.

438
00:35:40.119 --> 00:35:45.360
We were having a conversation one time
and I says, you know, these

439
00:35:45.400 --> 00:35:49.039
things reminded me of cooties. Whatever
these things. He goes, and he

440
00:35:49.119 --> 00:35:51.920
goes, and he stopped, and
he goes. I don't believe you said

441
00:35:51.920 --> 00:35:53.840
that. He goes. You know, I've had a few people tell me

442
00:35:53.920 --> 00:35:58.559
exactly the same thing, And of
course we're all in the same age group,

443
00:35:58.639 --> 00:36:01.039
so it makes sense we all kne
would they were talking about. Well,

444
00:36:01.159 --> 00:36:06.360
that's the only thing I could say. It reminded me of my mother,

445
00:36:06.480 --> 00:36:08.079
as I told her in the morning, I says, you know this

446
00:36:08.159 --> 00:36:12.920
thing and there was a name to
them that I recall. There was a

447
00:36:13.000 --> 00:36:15.440
name, an eye for the life
and you can't remember, but I think

448
00:36:15.440 --> 00:36:20.760
it had an R or something.
I don't know if it was it or

449
00:36:20.920 --> 00:36:27.840
them or whatever. Again, this
is a child having these experiences and trying

450
00:36:27.920 --> 00:36:32.079
to put it into some context today. I know they were real to me.

451
00:36:32.199 --> 00:36:39.599
Did they actually happen? I'm thinking
they did. Can I again proved

452
00:36:39.599 --> 00:36:46.360
me on a reasonable doubt. No, some strange things did take place physiologically

453
00:36:46.400 --> 00:36:52.840
to me, and maybe they did. I don't know, but I'd hate

454
00:36:52.880 --> 00:36:55.679
to think I was crazy as a
little kid. And my mother, you

455
00:36:55.719 --> 00:37:00.679
know, maybe now after all the
crap we've been through, right, But

456
00:37:00.639 --> 00:37:05.480
my mom she says, well,
that's your imaginary friend. And I have

457
00:37:05.599 --> 00:37:07.840
no idea what imaginary meant. And
then I mentioned it to a few people

458
00:37:07.840 --> 00:37:12.480
and they laughed at me. And
when I found out what imaginary meant,

459
00:37:12.519 --> 00:37:15.840
I was really upset up my mom
for a while. Oh really, yeah,

460
00:37:15.880 --> 00:37:20.480
because this wasn't imaginary to me,
this was genuine. It took place,

461
00:37:20.880 --> 00:37:25.320
and I recalled a feeling of going
over, say, for instance,

462
00:37:25.400 --> 00:37:31.280
the grass, to smell the dew
the grass freshly got, and something about

463
00:37:32.320 --> 00:37:38.480
the sensation of cold plaster on the
walls too. It was like being de

464
00:37:38.599 --> 00:37:43.840
materialized. So if these things are
genuine, I don't know. I would

465
00:37:43.880 --> 00:37:46.840
like to think. You know,
again, this where it comes to looking

466
00:37:46.880 --> 00:37:51.960
back on an event or series of
events in your life, how many years

467
00:37:52.039 --> 00:37:55.480
later, Well, I this was
the interpretation. I came too far before

468
00:37:57.079 --> 00:38:07.039
even becoming engrossed into anything related to
abduction slash encounters. Now, this is

469
00:38:07.079 --> 00:38:09.159
kind of a funny question, just
because I always think about, you know

470
00:38:10.920 --> 00:38:14.119
some people, and I think you're
one of those people. I'm one of

471
00:38:14.119 --> 00:38:16.360
those people. You have this compulsion, you know, to get involved with

472
00:38:16.400 --> 00:38:22.400
this topic and the subject. Do
you feel do you ever kind of speculate

473
00:38:22.440 --> 00:38:29.760
that perhaps that experience that you had
was somehow something prodding you and shaping your

474
00:38:29.800 --> 00:38:36.679
future and your involvement in this field
in particular. I think so. But

475
00:38:36.760 --> 00:38:45.800
I think even prior to that,
what I always found interesting is anything dealing

476
00:38:45.840 --> 00:38:50.519
with legends and lures. I would
sit at the table, you know how

477
00:38:50.519 --> 00:38:53.840
it is with a a big family. M hm. Your uncles would come

478
00:38:53.840 --> 00:38:59.840
over and sit around and tell stories
and tell about things that would just be

479
00:39:00.039 --> 00:39:06.559
on the brink of something that we
would call either preter natural or paranormal.

480
00:39:07.119 --> 00:39:15.199
And this would be commonplace in the
discussion at the table with uncles and relatives

481
00:39:15.239 --> 00:39:17.239
and stuff like that. They would
talk about these things. They weren't afraid

482
00:39:17.280 --> 00:39:23.920
to and I always found that so
interesting. And these people were pillars of

483
00:39:23.960 --> 00:39:29.480
the community, a lot of fun, and yet they talked about this stuff

484
00:39:29.519 --> 00:39:31.639
openly, and I found that interesting. So at a very young age,

485
00:39:31.639 --> 00:39:38.559
I found it interesting. So my
experience with unusual stuff, paranormal preternatural probably

486
00:39:38.599 --> 00:39:45.559
began pretty young, or being i
should say, being exposed to that possibility

487
00:39:45.360 --> 00:39:53.360
of other realms of forms of reality, something well beyond our ken and accepting

488
00:39:53.400 --> 00:40:00.320
it as being a possibility. Yeah. Well, and that's always how full

489
00:40:01.599 --> 00:40:07.360
it probably shades, you know,
your view and your fear of getting into

490
00:40:07.400 --> 00:40:13.400
this when you see mentors and people
you respect being open about it. Whereas

491
00:40:13.679 --> 00:40:15.440
I'm sure a lot of people don't
have that experience. Well, I know

492
00:40:15.480 --> 00:40:20.679
of a lot of people who whose
family and people they respect, you know,

493
00:40:21.079 --> 00:40:24.159
do not feel so positive about these
sort of things. Oh sure,

494
00:40:24.360 --> 00:40:30.440
especially to religious implications. In my
family was you know, a very devout

495
00:40:30.039 --> 00:40:35.320
to this day, the very religious
Catholic family. I went to a seminary

496
00:40:35.360 --> 00:40:42.760
and but by myself I have I
have a deep belief again, you know,

497
00:40:42.800 --> 00:40:47.239
a whole belief is being accept as
on on as being true or possibly

498
00:40:47.280 --> 00:40:54.960
true without evidence, and that that
there's far more going on here than what

499
00:40:55.000 --> 00:41:01.880
we could describe or explain by science
and the concept of a god or gods

500
00:41:02.239 --> 00:41:08.679
or other realms of a hierarchy of
intelligence. I think that's a given to

501
00:41:08.760 --> 00:41:15.360
me. Now can I prove it? And you know as far as above

502
00:41:15.480 --> 00:41:19.760
the unreasonable doubt and it's court of
law. Now, science doesn't demand that,

503
00:41:19.920 --> 00:41:23.639
it's we're looking for hypotheses and theories. I think our very existence is

504
00:41:25.079 --> 00:41:31.280
testament to something pretty interesting. Now. The problem when it comes to youuthology.

505
00:41:31.519 --> 00:41:35.440
A lot of people I deal with
a lot of people in our group

506
00:41:35.519 --> 00:41:43.239
out here that we have a compositive
people that are from a very conservative religious

507
00:41:43.280 --> 00:41:50.639
people who are adamant against the exraterrestrial
hypotheses, to skeptics that are you know,

508
00:41:50.840 --> 00:41:53.639
basically I embrace everybody if this is
a human experience. It's all about

509
00:41:53.719 --> 00:42:01.079
us, and I think they respect
it. And the only thing is I

510
00:42:01.559 --> 00:42:07.400
asked that they respect each other when
we get together and we explore this phenomena,

511
00:42:08.039 --> 00:42:12.760
you know, collectively and be open
about it. And and that,

512
00:42:13.679 --> 00:42:16.639
boy, I tell you that could
be challenging at times, right, Try

513
00:42:16.639 --> 00:42:20.760
to control a group like that when
you're trying to have a presentation. Boy,

514
00:42:20.800 --> 00:42:23.480
oh boy, it's like a circus, right, yeah, And I'm

515
00:42:23.519 --> 00:42:27.639
sure some people have felt that.
And I think that these are experiences,

516
00:42:27.679 --> 00:42:30.800
why, you know, just coming
out of the holidays. A lot of

517
00:42:30.800 --> 00:42:36.440
people avoid these sort of topics when
it comes to family gatherings. Oh sure,

518
00:42:36.760 --> 00:42:42.320
sure, yeah, I think that, you know, family gatherings.

519
00:42:42.360 --> 00:42:45.400
I know Dolan, he talks about
his experiences, you know, mentioning things

520
00:42:45.440 --> 00:42:50.239
with his family and how difficult it
was. And I think that's that way

521
00:42:50.320 --> 00:42:54.400
for everybody. When my family gets
together, nobody brings the subject up.

522
00:42:54.559 --> 00:43:00.559
Nobody, in fact, rarely do
I bring it up. So it's like

523
00:43:00.880 --> 00:43:05.039
the plague, right, I wish
the uncles were around me, But I

524
00:43:05.039 --> 00:43:07.320
had a good time, Yeah,
exactly, sounds like those were good times.

525
00:43:07.559 --> 00:43:12.639
They were, they were the best. So when you started investigating,

526
00:43:13.840 --> 00:43:17.760
were there some cases or that you
came across early on that were really shocking

527
00:43:17.760 --> 00:43:22.800
to you, or something when you
began investigating that you came across that you

528
00:43:22.880 --> 00:43:29.559
felt was maybe different than you had
felt things were well. Researching and investigating,

529
00:43:29.599 --> 00:43:35.199
you know, the investigative researcher versus
just the researcher and doing field investigations

530
00:43:35.199 --> 00:43:39.559
are like different modes of operations.
Here, I was just reading and I

531
00:43:39.639 --> 00:43:45.760
was very curious about the subject,
and at parties if the subject ever came

532
00:43:45.840 --> 00:43:49.039
up or at gatherings, I would
listen to people and then I would ask

533
00:43:49.079 --> 00:43:53.880
people who have had their inexperiences to
give me more information. Then eventually I'd

534
00:43:53.920 --> 00:43:58.599
be old enough to go out seeking
people once they were in the news,

535
00:43:58.599 --> 00:44:04.679
say, for instance, Lamont sighting
out in the eighties in Lamont, making

536
00:44:04.719 --> 00:44:07.280
it a point to talk to people
who had actually seen There were some police

537
00:44:07.320 --> 00:44:13.199
officers that had seen these objects in
the sky, and that was a very

538
00:44:13.239 --> 00:44:15.440
well noted case. It was one
of the first Moufon cases where I came

539
00:44:15.480 --> 00:44:22.000
in contact with Mofon investigators. And
then in nineteen ninety seven where I really

540
00:44:22.000 --> 00:44:27.400
took an interest was coming home from
doing our radio show on Sunday up north

541
00:44:27.440 --> 00:44:31.920
and miles away and driving along and
here I had the radio on and they

542
00:44:31.920 --> 00:44:40.920
were talking about a sighting a new
Lenox and a pilot a private aircraft,

543
00:44:42.599 --> 00:44:47.880
a private airplane pilot seeing this object
in addition to many people. And this

544
00:44:49.039 --> 00:44:55.159
was a mass sighting in nineteen ninety
seven during the Thanksgiving weekend. So they

545
00:44:55.239 --> 00:44:59.280
mentioned the name of the man's business. He had a coffee shop. So

546
00:44:59.280 --> 00:45:04.280
I went there immediately talked to the
guy, started asking questions. Next day

547
00:45:04.280 --> 00:45:07.760
I went and I got some aerial
maps from the county, started laying things

548
00:45:07.800 --> 00:45:13.400
out. Then ran into Billioni,
who was the assistant state director here in

549
00:45:13.760 --> 00:45:19.920
Illinois, and Sumarowski was a film
investigator, and I gave them the maps

550
00:45:20.119 --> 00:45:23.440
and the information I drew out on
there and started to help them assemble the

551
00:45:23.519 --> 00:45:27.679
data. It was the first time
I started to work with Moufon. I

552
00:45:27.760 --> 00:45:30.280
wasn't a member at that point.
It became a member, I believe three

553
00:45:30.320 --> 00:45:35.679
years later, but I was still
working on a number of cases. First

554
00:45:35.679 --> 00:45:40.880
case I ever worked on with in
Moufon was a black orb and I think

555
00:45:40.920 --> 00:45:46.079
you may have remembered this case.
It was a black orb that hovered over

556
00:45:46.679 --> 00:45:52.880
a street in Downers Grove near a
corporate complex. Of it was a corporate

557
00:45:54.519 --> 00:46:00.400
set of buildings and it was above
a parking lot next to a parking lot,

558
00:46:00.400 --> 00:46:05.920
a two tier of three story parking
lot. And fourteen witnesses seeing this

559
00:46:06.280 --> 00:46:13.920
orb, this black orb appear there
and it had a brilliant light neon blue

560
00:46:15.599 --> 00:46:21.079
light or illumination around the periphery and
then from the bottom it had a golden

561
00:46:21.119 --> 00:46:24.880
aura on the very bottom. They
watched this object. They weren't there.

562
00:46:24.920 --> 00:46:31.000
They looked at it and it had
a translucent effect to it. There were

563
00:46:31.079 --> 00:46:35.519
multiple witnesses, fourteen witnesses. One
of them had to seek psychiatric help.

564
00:46:36.159 --> 00:46:43.559
This object lifted up and shot off
southwest where it went to adjoin a large

565
00:46:43.599 --> 00:46:47.599
black triangular craft sitting in the sky. It moved around the craft, I

566
00:46:47.679 --> 00:46:52.320
think he said three times, and
there was another black orb coming in from

567
00:46:52.360 --> 00:46:58.800
another direction. The two of them
ascended into the craft from the bottom,

568
00:46:59.239 --> 00:47:04.880
and then theft self took off the
south south southwest. So that was one

569
00:47:04.920 --> 00:47:08.440
of the first cases I worked on. And the black orbs obviously have been

570
00:47:08.480 --> 00:47:14.400
seen many times. Black orange,
I've seen orange orbs. The orange orb

571
00:47:15.199 --> 00:47:20.159
sighting was in May of two thousand
and three, which was a precursor,

572
00:47:20.199 --> 00:47:22.159
of course to the Tinley Park siding
of two thousand and four, but in

573
00:47:22.199 --> 00:47:28.480
the general vicinity, and when we
were investigating the first night of the sighting

574
00:47:28.519 --> 00:47:34.639
in two thousand of two thousand and
four August twenty first we had people come

575
00:47:34.800 --> 00:47:38.960
out talking about their sighting in May
of the year prior that I, myself

576
00:47:39.079 --> 00:47:44.280
and my wife had seen. So
it was nice to add a layer of

577
00:47:44.320 --> 00:47:49.519
more witnesses and credence to the very
event that I personally experienced. What time

578
00:47:49.519 --> 00:47:52.400
of day was a black orbs scene? That black orbs was seen in the

579
00:47:52.480 --> 00:47:59.280
evening, and there was a cleaning
crew in actually three of the buildings secure.

580
00:47:59.440 --> 00:48:05.079
The secure guard went out, walked
up and was on the top I

581
00:48:05.119 --> 00:48:08.280
think it was three stories high,
two or three stories high the parking garage

582
00:48:08.760 --> 00:48:15.760
was staring directly into the object which
was over the the street a little bit

583
00:48:15.800 --> 00:48:22.199
into the forest preserve and near the
near a hospital too, and it moved

584
00:48:22.239 --> 00:48:27.119
further south toward the hospital, came
back and then I was, like I

585
00:48:27.159 --> 00:48:31.280
had mentioned, ascended into the sky. It was soon soon thereafter there was

586
00:48:31.280 --> 00:48:39.639
apache helicopters in the area. The
UH the guard after after giving his report

587
00:48:39.719 --> 00:48:47.559
to us, was moved to a
different location and basically given this chastise for

588
00:48:47.639 --> 00:48:51.400
it, because he also gave me
the entry to the building. Uh.

589
00:48:51.440 --> 00:48:58.199
And the building did receive damage,
and the damage was very unique, UH,

590
00:48:58.199 --> 00:49:02.760
and that it was caused the insurance
evaluation or the person coming out doing

591
00:49:02.800 --> 00:49:09.280
the evaluation for the damage said it
was caused by some ultrasonic vibration. So

592
00:49:09.320 --> 00:49:15.840
something happened on the inside, a
physical reaction in a physical trace to the

593
00:49:15.920 --> 00:49:22.159
case. And we have no way
of getting that information. And I was

594
00:49:22.280 --> 00:49:29.480
very interested in the building itself because
it housed a facility for a satellite company.

595
00:49:30.159 --> 00:49:35.800
Oh. Interesting, getting back to
you, just because those are interesting

596
00:49:35.840 --> 00:49:39.079
cases, could you give us like
a little synopsis of what happened like at

597
00:49:39.079 --> 00:49:45.199
the Lamonk case, what was seen
by who win? There were a few

598
00:49:45.239 --> 00:49:50.079
police officers, Actually was a couple
of witnesses, a couple of police officers

599
00:49:50.119 --> 00:49:55.239
seeing bright light coming in, multiple
lights coming in as a right call.

600
00:49:55.280 --> 00:50:01.079
And it was over Route eighty three
and in the poorer area, also in

601
00:50:01.119 --> 00:50:07.239
the area of Fermi Laboratory and not
FIRMI excuse me, Argon National Laboratory of

602
00:50:07.320 --> 00:50:10.039
course, which was one of the
first or if not the first cyclotron,

603
00:50:10.760 --> 00:50:17.840
and this object came in it clearly
wasn't a helicopter or anything else. They

604
00:50:17.920 --> 00:50:25.280
reported police officer officers were very forthcoming
and giving the information. And there were

605
00:50:25.360 --> 00:50:31.159
other people at the refinery who had
actually seen the same There's many refineries in

606
00:50:31.199 --> 00:50:37.440
the area there and they seen the
same objects illuminations, and this wasn't the

607
00:50:37.480 --> 00:50:42.960
first time for their sightings. It
seemed as though there has been multiple sightings

608
00:50:42.960 --> 00:50:49.760
in that community. It seems to
be a magnet for such aerial phenomenas in

609
00:50:49.800 --> 00:50:54.480
as much the same way as some
of the nuclear power plants. And then

610
00:50:54.679 --> 00:50:58.760
at the Lennox, the pilot you
spoke to, what did he tell you?

611
00:50:58.800 --> 00:51:01.440
What did he see? Well,
he was all he took. What

612
00:51:01.559 --> 00:51:06.239
happened was his sighting was one of
those. In fact, his reaction thereafter

613
00:51:06.679 --> 00:51:12.400
almost looked like a text bookcase of
post traumatic express disorder. Him and his

614
00:51:12.440 --> 00:51:15.599
girlfriend at the time. And this
guy just got overly hyperactive about this whole

615
00:51:15.920 --> 00:51:22.519
scenario. He really got into a
big he grabbed every book imaginal fact.

616
00:51:22.559 --> 00:51:28.920
I brought him some books and he
just went very deep into investigating it himself,

617
00:51:29.239 --> 00:51:32.599
which is good to get people proactive
into their very own case and start

618
00:51:32.639 --> 00:51:39.400
to find other witnesses to come forward. He met a gentleman who said that

619
00:51:39.480 --> 00:51:44.280
the object landed in his backyard,
or at least hobbard in his backyard,

620
00:51:44.280 --> 00:51:49.199
i should say, And he described
it as being a self luminous cluster of

621
00:51:49.239 --> 00:51:55.079
what looked like a cluster of grapes, multiple orbs that were you'd have to

622
00:51:55.119 --> 00:52:00.400
look at it almost outside of you
know, not a direct glance, but

623
00:52:01.000 --> 00:52:05.199
a little bit off kilter to really
get a good look at it. And

624
00:52:05.239 --> 00:52:10.079
that's commonplace. I hear that so
many times when these crafts last objects are

625
00:52:10.119 --> 00:52:16.199
in a state of flux or self
illuminous, that they are more to see

626
00:52:16.239 --> 00:52:22.920
what's actually going on inside that past
the illumination, to look at an angle

627
00:52:22.159 --> 00:52:27.159
or on the periphery of your vision
and you're able to see it. Another

628
00:52:27.239 --> 00:52:31.039
case, not far from there,
it took place in the eighties where a

629
00:52:31.280 --> 00:52:37.400
large cylindrical object was hovering over a
gentleman's house. He was a area of

630
00:52:37.440 --> 00:52:44.280
businessmen who has taking his son home
from a farm what you call that four

631
00:52:44.440 --> 00:52:49.880
h club meeting, and they walked
into their huge yard and there's this.

632
00:52:50.039 --> 00:52:54.079
They get out of the garage and
there's this massive, self illuminous object up

633
00:52:54.119 --> 00:53:00.039
there and it so this thing was
monstrous, sitting directly over the house and

634
00:53:00.039 --> 00:53:01.199
and he says, all I had
to do is turn my head a little

635
00:53:01.199 --> 00:53:07.039
bit and you could see all the
distinct characteristics of the object. And again

636
00:53:07.119 --> 00:53:15.280
this case came to me while investigating
the case, the Tinley Park case.

637
00:53:15.320 --> 00:53:19.400
I had so many historical cases come
in. You couldn't believe. Anytime you

638
00:53:19.480 --> 00:53:23.639
work on a case that big,
that gets so much publicity, airplay,

639
00:53:23.719 --> 00:53:29.840
etc. And media attention, you're
going to get other people coming forward who

640
00:53:30.079 --> 00:53:34.800
are not afraid, who probably built
up enough courage to come forward and start

641
00:53:34.800 --> 00:53:37.920
talking about their case. Same thing
with them. During that siding or during

642
00:53:37.920 --> 00:53:42.800
that period of time, there were
multi police officer sidings and those are very

643
00:53:42.800 --> 00:53:47.599
good sightings. And so these things
take place and people start coming out of

644
00:53:47.639 --> 00:53:52.440
the woodworks or closet whatever, the
euthological closets that they're stuck up in and

645
00:53:52.519 --> 00:53:55.800
afraid of it because of ridicule.
But this is the type of stuff that

646
00:53:55.880 --> 00:54:00.280
took place. But getting back to
that gentleman, he says this, This

647
00:54:00.360 --> 00:54:07.920
gentleman said he saw multiple orbs clustered
together like grapes, and they were behind,

648
00:54:07.039 --> 00:54:15.599
of course, a very self illuminous
field of illumination, and to me,

649
00:54:15.719 --> 00:54:17.039
I think that's in a state of
flux, you know, when it

650
00:54:17.079 --> 00:54:23.079
comes to what's actually going on there. Mm hmm, so really interesting sightings.

651
00:54:23.119 --> 00:54:28.639
And I guess getting back to my
question and asking it in a more

652
00:54:28.679 --> 00:54:31.320
accurate way, because you make a
good point there's a difference between research and

653
00:54:31.400 --> 00:54:37.760
investigation. But since you do investigation, you know some field work, which

654
00:54:37.840 --> 00:54:40.840
not a lot of people do,
but I had. It was very interesting

655
00:54:40.960 --> 00:54:47.239
going from researcher to investigator for me
because there was just things that I found

656
00:54:49.159 --> 00:54:55.840
talking to witnesses. It's just a
different sort of I guess you get to

657
00:54:55.880 --> 00:55:01.559
share in the excitement of the experience
a lot more. Or that way is

658
00:55:01.559 --> 00:55:05.320
that what you had found? What
do you think is an important of actual

659
00:55:05.440 --> 00:55:09.840
filled work. I think the important
thing and the difference between just research and

660
00:55:09.960 --> 00:55:15.519
doing investigative research is the filter.
We all use filters of some sort when

661
00:55:15.519 --> 00:55:22.360
we gather data. Some data may
be deleted, some may be overly emphasized.

662
00:55:22.519 --> 00:55:28.599
Even the manner in which we sort
it or assemble it is a way

663
00:55:28.239 --> 00:55:37.159
of possibly even filtering or let's say, censoring, and that's what we have

664
00:55:37.159 --> 00:55:40.280
to really watch when it comes to
that. For a research needs to watch

665
00:55:40.360 --> 00:55:44.320
to, you know, when they're
getting that information. You maybe want to

666
00:55:45.440 --> 00:55:49.320
get a little more detail on the
process of how it was assembled. Was

667
00:55:49.320 --> 00:55:52.440
there any other information that you felt
may have been just too bizarre, too

668
00:55:52.519 --> 00:55:57.159
unusual, that you didn't put into
report? And how many times that the

669
00:55:57.280 --> 00:56:00.519
case? That is the case because
you hear some things that people to say,

670
00:56:00.599 --> 00:56:02.519
Wow, you know, I don't
know if I should tell you this,

671
00:56:02.599 --> 00:56:06.519
but this is what happening. I'll
both forget about that. But it

672
00:56:06.519 --> 00:56:09.639
may be a crucial part a point
in fact, I think Chaquallet brought that

673
00:56:09.760 --> 00:56:14.960
up a number of times. The
other thing is dealing with a witness.

674
00:56:15.440 --> 00:56:20.760
Some of the best aspects of a
case may take years to get that information

675
00:56:21.000 --> 00:56:23.280
out. It's a matter of gaining
comfort. I don't know if it's trust.

676
00:56:23.360 --> 00:56:30.840
Some more it's comfort and knowing that
they're not going to be laughed at

677
00:56:30.039 --> 00:56:35.840
by you, or you could be
entrusted with the fact that you may keep

678
00:56:35.880 --> 00:56:40.920
that information close to your vest and
not divulge it, especially when in cases

679
00:56:40.960 --> 00:56:47.679
of where people want to remain anonymous. So many a time you get over

680
00:56:47.719 --> 00:56:52.480
a period of time, you get
this information leaking out of the people.

681
00:56:52.639 --> 00:56:59.760
And then the other thing is you
can see quirks and characteristics of their own

682
00:57:00.079 --> 00:57:05.360
personal traits that may be a way
of the manner which they interpret stuff.

683
00:57:05.360 --> 00:57:08.280
You get a better idea maybe how
they look at things, and you may

684
00:57:08.320 --> 00:57:15.599
want to re examine the information they
gave you and requestion it, question them

685
00:57:15.719 --> 00:57:21.679
again. So I think the difference
between the research and the field the investigative

686
00:57:21.719 --> 00:57:27.639
researcher is of course getting as close
as possible to the information, if not

687
00:57:27.760 --> 00:57:31.360
the event itself. Yeah, you
know that. It's a good point too

688
00:57:31.360 --> 00:57:38.000
that you bring up with the creating
a space that's comfortable for them, Yes,

689
00:57:38.039 --> 00:57:43.079
and how important that is. A
lot of times people are very guarded

690
00:57:43.559 --> 00:57:47.920
and once they feel that comfort,
it's like a release and it's almost like

691
00:57:47.960 --> 00:57:52.760
a little bit of social work that
you do when you're going out and visiting

692
00:57:52.840 --> 00:57:57.719
these people, because they feel so
relieved and happy to finally be able to

693
00:57:57.760 --> 00:58:02.079
comfortably talk with someone about that stuff. That is so true. This year

694
00:58:02.599 --> 00:58:06.440
in August, we went down to
Quincy, of course, which was the

695
00:58:07.880 --> 00:58:14.760
place that MoveOn started. That was
the birthplace of MoveOn was in Quincy.

696
00:58:14.880 --> 00:58:20.920
Yes, and Walt was the plant
manager there or assistant plant manager of Motorola,

697
00:58:21.440 --> 00:58:24.719
and I was asked to come down
there and give a presentation at the

698
00:58:24.800 --> 00:58:29.280
library, and I was on local
television, in the news, etc.

699
00:58:29.800 --> 00:58:34.039
They were very cordial, very nice, but people showed up for the first

700
00:58:34.079 --> 00:58:38.119
time to talk about their events.
Had a man up there crying, crying.

701
00:58:38.679 --> 00:58:42.039
He says, he looked at me
and he says, am, you

702
00:58:42.119 --> 00:58:45.880
have no idea how important this is
for my whole family. And the wife

703
00:58:45.920 --> 00:58:50.440
is sitting there shaking her head.
To come out, to be able to

704
00:58:50.519 --> 00:58:53.360
come out in front of other people
and share this experience for the first time,

705
00:58:53.880 --> 00:59:00.199
he says, this has just done
me volumes of good. And other

706
00:59:00.199 --> 00:59:04.800
people came out and said thank you
for having him, you know, to

707
00:59:05.159 --> 00:59:09.239
coaxing him, to comfortably coaxing him
up there and to just tell his account.

708
00:59:09.840 --> 00:59:14.719
And the funny thing was another person
came forward who he knew, who

709
00:59:14.800 --> 00:59:20.119
was a distant relative to his wife
and had similar experiences, and he never

710
00:59:20.159 --> 00:59:23.320
even knew that, and he was
there telling the story too, on opposite

711
00:59:23.320 --> 00:59:25.800
sides of the room, and it
all came together. It was just like

712
00:59:27.320 --> 00:59:31.639
wow, an epiphany, you know, it was deep. So again,

713
00:59:32.679 --> 00:59:37.360
I think the most important thing is
not so much the phenomenon itself. It's

714
00:59:37.480 --> 00:59:38.400
us who we are, what we
are, and why we are, and

715
00:59:38.400 --> 00:59:44.920
if we had any clue about this, this information be just incidental and it

716
00:59:45.039 --> 00:59:47.159
highlights I think that's where you really
learn, like what you talked about at

717
00:59:47.159 --> 00:59:52.079
the beginning, where this is kind
of a shared experience, how we're definitely

718
00:59:52.239 --> 00:59:55.599
in it together type of thing.
Oh sure, And that's what it really

719
00:59:55.599 --> 01:00:00.079
boils down to. It's the human
factor, and that's I stay stayed with

720
01:00:00.199 --> 01:00:05.800
it for all this long. It's
about the people and about our commonality and

721
01:00:06.039 --> 01:00:09.800
the reason and trying to find out
what the heck we are, why we

722
01:00:09.880 --> 01:00:16.519
are, And I think that's that's
the greater adventure. And I think the

723
01:00:16.519 --> 01:00:22.639
phenomenon itself is helping us maybe get
a better understanding, if not understanding,

724
01:00:22.719 --> 01:00:30.400
a comfort and getting a grip on
what we are. So I met you,

725
01:00:30.480 --> 01:00:35.199
I think in around two thousand and
four at the Moufar Symposium where you

726
01:00:35.239 --> 01:00:40.440
did a presentation on the Tinley Park
sightings, and I think you mentioned you

727
01:00:40.480 --> 01:00:44.639
remember and I totally forgot this.
You still have my laser pointer? Yes

728
01:00:44.679 --> 01:00:50.920
I do. I thank you for
that, but maybe you could share that

729
01:00:51.079 --> 01:00:57.039
case, how how it started and
what that case was all about actually got

730
01:00:57.079 --> 01:01:00.239
together in two thousand and seven.
It was the Tinley Park case I talked

731
01:01:00.239 --> 01:01:07.199
about, and what was the real
interesting case that everybody was interested about was,

732
01:01:07.239 --> 01:01:13.079
of course the O'Hare case, and
I was able to work with Richard

733
01:01:13.159 --> 01:01:17.519
Haynes and oh gosh, there's tons
of folks on that case. But the

734
01:01:17.639 --> 01:01:22.639
Timley Park case, and this is
one of the best documented and hopefully I'll

735
01:01:22.639 --> 01:01:28.000
be able to put this together before
I die, you know, it's one

736
01:01:28.000 --> 01:01:32.159
of these cases that I've I think
deserves to come out in the right light,

737
01:01:32.239 --> 01:01:37.079
in other words, with all the
information together done properly, assembled,

738
01:01:37.079 --> 01:01:43.920
properly, not just thrown out.
Because it's a story and it's a very

739
01:01:43.920 --> 01:01:50.039
good mass sighting. We have unlike
so many other mass sightings, we have

740
01:01:50.119 --> 01:01:54.639
the privilege here of having a cross
section of the demographic of the community.

741
01:01:55.400 --> 01:02:05.199
We have also a volume of photographic
evidence and video evidence that we can correlate

742
01:02:05.599 --> 01:02:12.800
and pinpoint locations, do triangulations.
And also what's interesting about it is to

743
01:02:13.519 --> 01:02:19.199
get moments in time very exact and
therefore get a three dimensional or a multi

744
01:02:19.239 --> 01:02:25.800
dimensional aspect to the footage itself and
what's being perceived by the witnesses that may

745
01:02:25.840 --> 01:02:32.159
be a little bit different than what's
actually being recorded on the footage. Another

746
01:02:32.239 --> 01:02:37.280
interesting thing about the case, and
this is something that's really new and I

747
01:02:37.320 --> 01:02:40.400
hope I get a chance to bring
forward, is that there was an arcing

748
01:02:40.559 --> 01:02:45.880
motion in the craft itself. It
arc if you had to take your thumb

749
01:02:45.920 --> 01:02:50.920
and index and a little finger,
place your thumb perfectly, still have your

750
01:02:51.119 --> 01:02:53.679
finger, your thumb and index finger
out ninety degrees, let's say, an

751
01:02:53.880 --> 01:02:58.559
arc it all the way around,
but keep your thumb still a complete arc.

752
01:03:00.119 --> 01:03:07.840
This is what was seen and recorded
on videotape by multiple witnesses. The

753
01:03:07.400 --> 01:03:14.519
funny thing is that is the same
characteristic that has been recorded and was seen

754
01:03:15.239 --> 01:03:23.960
in the January fourth, eight o'clock
or so recording by a witness to the

755
01:03:24.159 --> 01:03:29.719
renowned case in Southern Illinois, the
Millstep Highland Dupo case that, of course

756
01:03:29.800 --> 01:03:34.480
Dave Marler talks about the book and
you interviewed a great interview by the way

757
01:03:34.920 --> 01:03:40.599
with Dave, and this is a
characteristic that could show that by the way,

758
01:03:40.679 --> 01:03:45.840
we're dealing with something two points.
The other one that is in motion

759
01:03:45.239 --> 01:03:49.519
isn't in a free fall because I
calculate it out, it's faster than a

760
01:03:49.519 --> 01:03:52.760
free fall, and with the January
fourth footage is moving at god awful speed.

761
01:03:52.960 --> 01:03:58.800
Back to the point that they were
making unusual squeals and screeches, they're

762
01:03:58.800 --> 01:04:01.039
like, oh, you know,
and shock and awe. The bottom line

763
01:04:01.079 --> 01:04:08.559
is we're dealing with something that is
solid, and the illuminations are at are

764
01:04:08.599 --> 01:04:16.159
at points or on some sort of
apex and moving around advertesies. So the

765
01:04:16.239 --> 01:04:20.519
thing is we're dealing with something solid, not independent objects, and these are

766
01:04:20.559 --> 01:04:27.519
illuminations for whatever the purpose I don't
know, on the object itself, and

767
01:04:27.559 --> 01:04:34.880
that object's huge. The calculations,
in fact, as you recall UFO Hunters,

768
01:04:35.239 --> 01:04:40.960
we did episode the two thousand for
I think it was two hundred and

769
01:04:41.000 --> 01:04:45.280
one for the second season, and
it was the first show Invasion Illinois.

770
01:04:45.880 --> 01:04:48.719
Well Ted and those guys did an
evaluation. We did evaluation, in fact,

771
01:04:48.719 --> 01:04:53.960
we did three evaluations. Rodiger and
Kufos did an evaluation in the footage.

772
01:04:54.400 --> 01:04:58.880
The calculations, the triangulation, we're
dealing with an object well in excess

773
01:04:59.440 --> 01:05:05.760
of their calculation was fifteen hundred feet
because they based it off the plane going

774
01:05:05.800 --> 01:05:10.599
in front of it that thought it
was an air a helicopter. The calculation

775
01:05:10.760 --> 01:05:14.639
was based off forty feet or so
instead of like one hundred and forty feet.

776
01:05:15.000 --> 01:05:18.480
They came up with an object about
fifteen art feet long. Our calculations

777
01:05:18.519 --> 01:05:23.079
are summers in the range of four
thousand feet long. Anyway, you look

778
01:05:23.079 --> 01:05:29.000
at it, that's a big object
sitting up there. Wow. And how

779
01:05:29.000 --> 01:05:35.519
many witnesses were there to the Tinley
Kills and what did they see? Well?

780
01:05:35.760 --> 01:05:41.000
Most people report Again when you look
at the Bell Curve and the Tinley

781
01:05:41.000 --> 01:05:45.599
Park case wasn't isolated just Tinley Park. That's where you know, it just

782
01:05:45.599 --> 01:05:47.960
got coined. Same thing like with
Phoenix. You know here Phoenix, these

783
01:05:48.000 --> 01:05:51.360
objects were seen throughout the state.
Same thing here. It was not just

784
01:05:51.360 --> 01:05:56.519
seen throughout the state, but seen
throughout the world. When I look at

785
01:05:56.519 --> 01:05:59.480
the case, I try to go
seventy two hours before, trying to get

786
01:05:59.480 --> 01:06:03.480
a trying to limit the scope of
the investigation, seventy two hours before,

787
01:06:03.559 --> 01:06:11.320
seventy two hours afterwards. So within
seventy two hours before, this same pattern

788
01:06:12.679 --> 01:06:20.519
of these three illuminations were seen in
British Columbia, in New York, Iowa,

789
01:06:20.679 --> 01:06:25.800
in fact in Iowa, Des Moines
was seeing entirely the object itself,

790
01:06:25.880 --> 01:06:32.800
a large Isosceles triangle. Then there
were other objects associated with very much like

791
01:06:33.000 --> 01:06:41.360
the very similar to the case the
Phoenix mass sighting case. And the object

792
01:06:41.480 --> 01:06:47.920
came in on the twenty first,
right after the Aaron Water Show downtown Chicago,

793
01:06:47.920 --> 01:06:55.559
where three million people had converged on
the lakefront to watch this aerial show

794
01:06:55.639 --> 01:07:03.000
of you know, military might and
all this full acrobbatic aerobatic displays. The

795
01:07:03.039 --> 01:07:06.960
Blue Angels were there and everything.
So we had all sorts of stuff going

796
01:07:08.000 --> 01:07:13.800
on. And then at night this
shows up just about when everybody's outside having

797
01:07:13.840 --> 01:07:16.760
their barbecues and block parties, et
cetera. And by the way, Ozzy

798
01:07:16.840 --> 01:07:23.280
Osbourne was people were coming out of
the concert at what was then the Tweeter

799
01:07:23.480 --> 01:07:29.679
Center, so we had people converging
onto the thoroughfares in the interstate by I

800
01:07:29.880 --> 01:07:33.320
eighty and a lot of people were
outside. We're talking. This was a

801
01:07:33.400 --> 01:07:38.360
near perfect evening. The sky was
perfectly clear, not a cloud in the

802
01:07:38.400 --> 01:07:46.519
sky, very quiet, unusually quiet
during the whole time these illuminations were seen

803
01:07:46.559 --> 01:07:51.039
in the sky. There was absolutely
no air traffic, which doesn't take place

804
01:07:51.639 --> 01:07:56.960
in one of the most highly trafficked
areas in the country. There are thirty

805
01:07:56.960 --> 01:08:01.800
two airports nearby, of course,
the may Sure hubs being Midway and Midway

806
01:08:01.840 --> 01:08:06.159
and Okare and then Gary and Lansing. But there's also heliports et cetera,

807
01:08:06.800 --> 01:08:14.360
and medical heliports and private airports.
So the thing is there's always air traffic

808
01:08:14.480 --> 01:08:16.640
going on. At any given time. You can look in the sky and

809
01:08:16.840 --> 01:08:21.720
within minute see at least a craft, if not multiple, multiple aircraft.

810
01:08:21.840 --> 01:08:29.760
Nothing during this episode, Alejandro,
not one other object, not one aircraft.

811
01:08:30.479 --> 01:08:34.800
This sat there over the community,
sat perfectly still at approximately four thousand

812
01:08:34.800 --> 01:08:40.760
to six thousand feet, much higher
than any so called Chinese lanterns. It

813
01:08:40.920 --> 01:08:46.479
sat there for a length of time, just perfectly still in a we had

814
01:08:46.640 --> 01:08:51.039
a little bit of a breeze,
and then it took off. In some

815
01:08:51.079 --> 01:08:56.560
instances some people seen it hyperle from
one point to another, and then it

816
01:08:56.640 --> 01:09:00.960
was seen in Ohio the next day
tech and then it was recorded down in

817
01:09:01.000 --> 01:09:04.880
Melbourne, Australia on the twenty third
of August, which is sixteen hours ahead

818
01:09:04.880 --> 01:09:13.319
of us. So this is a
very commonplace object. The large Isosceles triangles

819
01:09:13.880 --> 01:09:16.399
now, I don't know if you've
seen this footage from California yet, I

820
01:09:16.479 --> 01:09:20.039
have yet to see it. I
don't know if that's just Chinese lanterns or

821
01:09:20.039 --> 01:09:27.520
what. But I have seen other
footage that seems to be very similar to

822
01:09:27.680 --> 01:09:33.199
what has been recorded here in Tiley
Park. Yeah, great sighting. And

823
01:09:33.239 --> 01:09:39.640
then of course I wanted to get
to O'Hare, which is another, I

824
01:09:39.680 --> 01:09:46.000
mean, incredible situation. I think
that really captured people's interest because it really

825
01:09:46.199 --> 01:09:53.399
was. The Chicago Tribune had picked
it up, and then a very extensive

826
01:09:53.439 --> 01:09:57.520
investigation really came to no conclusions.
In fact, they found what we found,

827
01:09:57.600 --> 01:10:00.720
which was a lot of run around
by officials WI, the FA,

828
01:10:00.840 --> 01:10:04.920
TRUE and United Airlines. So maybe
you could talk about that case. What

829
01:10:05.000 --> 01:10:08.680
did you guys? Were you able
to talk to some of the witnesses.

830
01:10:09.239 --> 01:10:13.079
Yes, I was able to talk
to three witnesses. Fourteen came forward,

831
01:10:13.720 --> 01:10:17.840
and I just spoke to somebody just
what was it last week? Who worked

832
01:10:17.840 --> 01:10:26.520
for another airlines and ran into some
more people who had also seen the sighting

833
01:10:26.520 --> 01:10:30.640
over Gate C seventeen. But you
know, the funny thing is about the

834
01:10:30.760 --> 01:10:33.960
case, more people are coming forward. I think it takes time. It

835
01:10:34.000 --> 01:10:39.840
takes if they retire at chure helps. Many of these people were just pulled

836
01:10:39.880 --> 01:10:42.520
aside, reminded that, hey,
by the way, you don't have a

837
01:10:42.520 --> 01:10:46.119
perfect employment record, A nice way
to you know, put a little fear

838
01:10:46.159 --> 01:10:50.079
of being unemployed, you know.
And it was a degree of the rest

839
01:10:50.159 --> 01:10:54.680
going on. The Other thing is
when it came to the airline itself,

840
01:10:54.800 --> 01:10:58.119
it just came out of bankruptcy.
I think that February, and it was

841
01:10:58.159 --> 01:11:01.319
at that point the largest bankruptcy I
don't. I mean from just from an

842
01:11:01.319 --> 01:11:04.680
economic point of view, I guess
they didn't want to be known as the

843
01:11:05.279 --> 01:11:10.399
out of this truly out of this
world airlines, you know, So maybe

844
01:11:10.439 --> 01:11:13.319
from a marketing point of view,
they probably just stood back on this and

845
01:11:13.760 --> 01:11:19.800
took a conservative and cautionary position.
But of course, what they the first

846
01:11:19.800 --> 01:11:24.439
thing I want to do is they
want to dismiss it as being lenticular clouds.

847
01:11:25.079 --> 01:11:30.079
And as you and I know,
we had a ceiling. Oh gosh,

848
01:11:30.159 --> 01:11:32.279
I forgot how thick it was was
hot. It was thousands of feet

849
01:11:32.399 --> 01:11:36.560
thick that day, and we had
barely a breeze. I think the maximum

850
01:11:36.600 --> 01:11:43.640
breeze during that period of time was
five miles an hour, and it was

851
01:11:43.920 --> 01:11:47.640
around four twenty in the afternoon,
you know, towards the evening, barely

852
01:11:47.880 --> 01:11:53.640
dusk. And then they're saying,
oh, no, it's a lenticular cloud

853
01:11:53.720 --> 01:11:57.800
below the ceiling. No, no, it was, and it was some

854
01:11:57.880 --> 01:12:01.880
fore hundred feet or so below the
the ceiling of cloud. The object I

855
01:12:01.880 --> 01:12:05.960
think was seventy seventy five to possibly
even one hundred and twenty feet in diameter.

856
01:12:06.279 --> 01:12:11.039
Wow, it was much bigger than
I think some of the people initially

857
01:12:11.039 --> 01:12:15.520
thought it was. And then of
course photographs, photographs were taken, video

858
01:12:15.720 --> 01:12:21.680
was taken, those cameras, those
security cameras. If the film was absconded

859
01:12:21.720 --> 01:12:26.319
with, we don't have any of
this stuff. The only pictures that came

860
01:12:26.359 --> 01:12:30.600
forward the ones that you saw.
Of course, Mark Ellen from above Top

861
01:12:30.640 --> 01:12:35.319
Secret pointed out the one witness you
know came forward, and well, he

862
01:12:35.359 --> 01:12:41.399
actually didn't come forward. They submitted
it anonymously. And as you and I

863
01:12:41.479 --> 01:12:45.399
know, if we get something and
that you know, and that you know,

864
01:12:45.439 --> 01:12:48.880
as far as chain of evidence,
we don't know what type of camera,

865
01:12:49.279 --> 01:12:54.079
we don't know, we can't evaluate
it. So it's just an illustration.

866
01:12:54.600 --> 01:12:57.800
But that seemed to be pretty legit. That seemed to be the object

867
01:12:57.840 --> 01:13:04.760
that was that was there and shooting
directly through the clouds instantaneously and leaving a

868
01:13:04.840 --> 01:13:10.720
gaping hall. Wow. You know, that does take some pretty interesting physics

869
01:13:11.319 --> 01:13:16.000
to first of all, accelerate from
stand stiff like that, secondly displaced that

870
01:13:16.079 --> 01:13:21.840
much amidity. So were you able
to speak with John Hilkovich? The Chicago

871
01:13:21.880 --> 01:13:28.960
Times reporter who was who wrote about
this at least spoke to John once,

872
01:13:29.199 --> 01:13:32.800
And I actually I was hoping to
get together with him, as you know,

873
01:13:32.920 --> 01:13:39.720
Paula Harris put together this event for
me what is it to me?

874
01:13:40.800 --> 01:13:45.520
Third through the fifth up here,
and We're going to have quite a few

875
01:13:46.039 --> 01:13:48.920
speakers and I'll be talking about this
case. But I'd like to say if

876
01:13:48.920 --> 01:13:56.880
they get John out to at least
address some of this. Unfortunately, you

877
01:13:56.920 --> 01:14:00.800
know, getting calls back and whatever
from him, it's it's a different thing,

878
01:14:00.159 --> 01:14:02.760
you know, it's a different,
different world, as you know.

879
01:14:03.319 --> 01:14:08.840
Yeah, in fact, you're the
first person I know of who's even talked

880
01:14:08.840 --> 01:14:12.319
to him, because I know a
lot of people have tried to get a

881
01:14:12.319 --> 01:14:17.199
hold of him, but including documentary
filmmakers, TV shows things like that,

882
01:14:17.640 --> 01:14:23.079
but nobody can. Our discussion was
pretty short, my friend, I can

883
01:14:23.119 --> 01:14:26.079
tell you that much. Yeah,
we were supposed to get together, and

884
01:14:26.880 --> 01:14:31.720
my in between was another gentleman on
setting this up. And I didn't want

885
01:14:31.720 --> 01:14:33.840
to do it at the Tribune,
and I didn't want to go to the

886
01:14:33.840 --> 01:14:38.520
tribument. That's some real I don't
know if you've ever been to the Tribune

887
01:14:38.640 --> 01:14:44.239
building. My god, it's a
massive thing. I was there once before

888
01:14:45.039 --> 01:14:49.479
and did an interview and it was
intimidating. I could tell you it's just

889
01:14:49.680 --> 01:14:59.239
massive, intimidating and wow, it
was just strange. But Hilkevich is a

890
01:14:59.319 --> 01:15:01.479
damn good righte. I'm happy he
wrote the piece. It would have never

891
01:15:01.560 --> 01:15:05.800
came to light. But you know
what the funny thing is, you ask

892
01:15:06.039 --> 01:15:12.439
people today if they recall that,
just to show you the mindset of being

893
01:15:12.520 --> 01:15:19.399
overwhelmed with too much information, many
people have entirely forgotten that account entirely.

894
01:15:20.279 --> 01:15:24.239
And that's how it is, I
think across the board with so many of

895
01:15:24.279 --> 01:15:29.279
the cases recently, what came to
mind was nineteen ninety seven. All the

896
01:15:29.279 --> 01:15:34.560
events took place in nineteen ninety seven, you know, the phoenix sighting on

897
01:15:34.640 --> 01:15:40.479
March thirteenth, but then it was
just a few days later that we had

898
01:15:40.560 --> 01:15:47.520
this mass suicide that basically blanketed the
news and gave Uphology a black eye.

899
01:15:47.760 --> 01:15:53.640
Why don't know, but that was
the Heaven's Gate scenario, as you recall,

900
01:15:54.680 --> 01:15:56.800
and that was just a few days
later. Did you know that?

901
01:15:57.119 --> 01:16:00.920
Wow? Yeah, I guess I
hadn't realized that. Yeah. Year nineteen

902
01:16:00.960 --> 01:16:05.439
ninety seven was pivocal for a lot
of reasons. We had the Lawrence Rockefeller

903
01:16:06.000 --> 01:16:11.800
Foundation, you know, coming out
with that research, and then we had

904
01:16:12.399 --> 01:16:16.439
another book by the Army try and
explain away the bodies from Roswell, et

905
01:16:16.479 --> 01:16:19.680
cetera, et cetera. There was
a lot of things going on, and

906
01:16:20.720 --> 01:16:28.279
it's amazing how these unusual events come
in to just take control of the mindset

907
01:16:28.520 --> 01:16:33.119
on the subject matter. Right,
So I want to ask you one last

908
01:16:33.159 --> 01:16:38.520
question since we're running out of time. But I did do this story recently.

909
01:16:38.800 --> 01:16:44.720
I took all of the sighting data
that I have available to me from

910
01:16:44.760 --> 01:16:48.560
the mouf On files to put together
kind of how many sightings were seen,

911
01:16:48.680 --> 01:16:54.239
where to look for hotspots and stuff
like that. And one of the interesting

912
01:16:54.319 --> 01:17:00.720
things was August was there was pretty
much a spike in in August, and

913
01:17:00.920 --> 01:17:05.560
from looking at Illinois, we do
have. Actually you had most of your

914
01:17:05.600 --> 01:17:12.880
sightings in July, twenty seven sightings
reported and then twenty five reported in August.

915
01:17:14.600 --> 01:17:17.000
What do you think, why do
you think that is Chinese lanterns?

916
01:17:17.359 --> 01:17:25.640
Yeah, you know, Chinese lanterns. I've picked up so many Chinese lanterns.

917
01:17:25.680 --> 01:17:29.520
I had one just a few feet
from where I'm sitting right now.

918
01:17:29.680 --> 01:17:34.000
Oh oh yeah, I've plucked them
out of farm fields, I've you know,

919
01:17:34.600 --> 01:17:41.600
roads, et cetera. There's been
an upswing in people using these Chinese

920
01:17:41.680 --> 01:17:45.439
lanterns. In fact, what we
did here in Illinois we set up a

921
01:17:45.560 --> 01:17:53.319
triage headed by a gentleman from dan
Snow from Michigan. As you know,

922
01:17:53.399 --> 01:17:58.079
Illinois move on. We have members
come in from all over from eleven states,

923
01:17:58.119 --> 01:18:01.159
come in for our meetings and stuff. So you know, if people

924
01:18:01.239 --> 01:18:06.319
want to help us, and you
know what cases we need people. So

925
01:18:06.399 --> 01:18:13.039
this guy's been handling the triage,
evaluating them and we have a format to

926
01:18:13.079 --> 01:18:16.399
go by to basically see if there's
any validity to it. But then again,

927
01:18:16.479 --> 01:18:20.680
the orange orbs, I've seen them. These things are unlike Chinese lanterns,

928
01:18:20.720 --> 01:18:27.399
which I am very intimately aware of. I know that what they look

929
01:18:27.560 --> 01:18:30.960
like what they can do. I
know, how high they can fly.

930
01:18:30.840 --> 01:18:35.319
They're luminescence, on and on and
on and on. There are distinct characteristics

931
01:18:35.359 --> 01:18:43.880
to them to flares to any sort
of pretty much known thing up there that

932
01:18:44.520 --> 01:18:47.119
they try hoaxers try to put up. The other thing is drones. We

933
01:18:47.199 --> 01:18:54.560
have a lot of drone activity,
so we see a good amount of drones

934
01:18:56.840 --> 01:19:01.399
and this is what goes on.
But during a line of two thousand and

935
01:19:01.479 --> 01:19:06.960
three, there was a large triangular
UFO scene and it was seen by multiple

936
01:19:08.039 --> 01:19:13.560
witnesses and it was the large Isosceles
and here it was on July the third

937
01:19:14.159 --> 01:19:21.159
of two thousand and three. So
to basically whitewash everything as being just a

938
01:19:21.199 --> 01:19:26.800
hoaxes, no. But the other
thing is it takes a long time to

939
01:19:26.840 --> 01:19:29.960
go through that data. In fact, I think we haven't even closed out

940
01:19:30.039 --> 01:19:35.279
July on the cases because it's just
going to take a lot of work to

941
01:19:35.279 --> 01:19:40.279
put it together methodically. And it
warrants it, you know, I think

942
01:19:40.279 --> 01:19:45.239
it warrants it. Yeah, that's
the hard part with technology. And you

943
01:19:45.279 --> 01:19:49.800
know, there are so many of
these Chinese lanterns that any reports of red

944
01:19:49.920 --> 01:19:55.760
or orange balls get kind of disregarded
or blown off more so, and I

945
01:19:55.760 --> 01:20:03.319
find myself doing that. And now
with LEDs on remote control planes and drones

946
01:20:03.439 --> 01:20:09.640
and the quad copters, it's almost
like the modern world. There's all kinds

947
01:20:09.680 --> 01:20:14.079
of things flying around with lights,
and it makes it then more difficult to

948
01:20:14.520 --> 01:20:18.159
pay attention to to light flying around
in the night sky. Again, the

949
01:20:18.279 --> 01:20:26.920
need to do proactive work with the
qualified individuals setting up locations and hotspots and

950
01:20:27.039 --> 01:20:30.159
just gather the data ourselves. That's
right. Well, thank you so much

951
01:20:30.279 --> 01:20:32.159
for being on the show. It
was a lot of fun, and I'm

952
01:20:32.199 --> 01:20:36.600
sure that we'll have you on again
soon and I'm hopefully we'll run into each

953
01:20:36.640 --> 01:20:40.319
other again soon at one of these
conferences. It'd be great to make it

954
01:20:40.319 --> 01:20:45.039
out there for hear you guys talk
about Chicago Hair, because that's an amazing

955
01:20:45.119 --> 01:20:47.640
case that shouldn't be forgotten. It's
one of the ones for the record books,

956
01:20:47.680 --> 01:20:53.079
I think. But your website for
Illinois move On is just my move

957
01:20:53.159 --> 01:20:58.239
on my MoveOn dot com where people
can go see more. Well, thank

958
01:20:58.279 --> 01:21:00.000
you so much, and I hope
to see you in February. Yeah,

959
01:21:00.039 --> 01:21:02.439
so are you going to make it
out. I'm going to try to.

960
01:21:02.560 --> 01:21:06.159
I'm working on a case that I
think is called a game changer, uh

961
01:21:06.239 --> 01:21:09.680
huh. And I've been working on
there for a couple of years and if

962
01:21:09.680 --> 01:21:13.159
I could finish it, I would
like to de view that either the press

963
01:21:13.199 --> 01:21:16.920
release or something, so we'll have
maybe next year. We'll talk about that,

964
01:21:17.159 --> 01:21:19.760
okay, but either way, I'd
like to talk to you in person.

965
01:21:20.000 --> 01:21:24.520
Yeah, definitely, that'd be great. And always willing to help out.

966
01:21:24.600 --> 01:21:27.760
It's always great to work with you. And thanks so much for being

967
01:21:27.800 --> 01:21:30.039
on the show. Thank you,
my friend. Thank you so much to

968
01:21:30.119 --> 01:21:34.239
Sam Moronto for coming on the show. Really cool guy, really interesting fella,

969
01:21:34.439 --> 01:21:39.560
a lot of cool stuff to talk
about. And the Illinois move On

970
01:21:39.920 --> 01:21:43.800
the you are healthfa lot for it
is not as intuitive as some of the

971
01:21:43.840 --> 01:21:48.439
others. It's my move on,
so mymoveon dot com. If you're in

972
01:21:48.479 --> 01:21:54.119
the Chicago area and you're freezing to
death, hopefully your internet still works and

973
01:21:54.199 --> 01:21:59.000
you can go on to my move
on and check out what's going on in

974
01:21:59.039 --> 01:22:00.600
your area. They have a lots
lots of stuff going on. They do

975
01:22:00.760 --> 01:22:04.960
little conferences and things like that on
a regular basis. Sam is a really

976
01:22:05.000 --> 01:22:10.119
cool guy, so you definitely want
to meet him and go check out the

977
01:22:10.479 --> 01:22:15.399
local move on out there in Illinois. So that's my MoveOn dot com.

978
01:22:15.399 --> 01:22:19.479
So thanks again to Sam for being
on the show. As we talked about

979
01:22:19.680 --> 01:22:25.640
earlier, the UFO Congress is coming
up super quick here. It's only in

980
01:22:25.720 --> 01:22:30.800
a few weeks February twelfth to the
sixteenth, So if you're still thinking about

981
01:22:30.800 --> 01:22:34.239
it or still trying to get things
together, you know, a register for

982
01:22:34.279 --> 01:22:36.680
that as soon as possible. We've
got a lot of people, lots of

983
01:22:36.760 --> 01:22:41.079
hustle and bustle going around so and
to remind you, you know, we

984
01:22:41.119 --> 01:22:44.840
talked about Timothy Good a little earlier. But of course everybody's a fan the

985
01:22:44.880 --> 01:22:48.960
coast to coast am and I'm sure
we all try to listen to that if

986
01:22:48.960 --> 01:22:54.560
we can stay up or listen to
the recordings of their archives. But George

987
01:22:54.640 --> 01:22:58.960
Nori, we'll be at the conference. Aaron Sager's a new good buddy who

988
01:22:59.279 --> 01:23:02.079
talked about uf and pop culture.
You probably read about him. He's now

989
01:23:02.159 --> 01:23:05.840
blogging for the Huffington Post. He's
all over the place talking about the paranormal

990
01:23:06.319 --> 01:23:12.680
and paranormal TV shows and stuff.
Really excited about Jeffrey Bennett, who's an

991
01:23:12.760 --> 01:23:17.000
astrophysicist. We have a whole science
section that's going to be just super cool.

992
01:23:17.840 --> 01:23:23.239
So we have Jeffrey Bennett. I've
heard him speak and he's really incredible.

993
01:23:23.279 --> 01:23:27.680
Of course he's a mainstream scientist,
but really open to stuff and has

994
01:23:27.720 --> 01:23:33.479
some really interesting instrikes when it comes
to extraterrestrial intelligence. Richard Hoover a NASA

995
01:23:33.520 --> 01:23:39.000
scientist who says we already have evidence
of extraterrestrial life and he's going to talk

996
01:23:39.039 --> 01:23:43.399
about all of that evidence. Robert
Schroeder talking about possibilities when it comes to

997
01:23:43.520 --> 01:23:47.680
UFO propulsions, so really interesting science. And then we've heard from David Marler

998
01:23:47.720 --> 01:23:53.560
recently about triangular UFOs in his book. We've got crop circles, we have

999
01:23:53.720 --> 01:23:58.479
bigfoot, we have abduction, and
we have Hime mussan O. And I

1000
01:23:58.479 --> 01:24:00.640
do want to talk about this one
again because this is pretty unique. This

1001
01:24:00.760 --> 01:24:06.000
is definitely a unique experience and opportunity. But we have Glenn Steckling who runs

1002
01:24:06.039 --> 01:24:12.479
the Adamski Foundation. So some of
you might know about Georgia Damski who was

1003
01:24:12.520 --> 01:24:16.159
a contact ee. He had videos
and photos of UFOs and all of those

1004
01:24:16.199 --> 01:24:21.880
are owned by the Adamski Foundation.
So it's more and more increasingly difficult to

1005
01:24:23.159 --> 01:24:28.720
as people you know forget about the
case, to find these pictures and videos

1006
01:24:29.000 --> 01:24:32.800
and the evidence around the Adamski case, which is of course very controversial because

1007
01:24:32.800 --> 01:24:36.000
he says he was on craft,
he talked to aliens and stuff like that,

1008
01:24:36.520 --> 01:24:41.760
but it's very very interesting too.
So this is going to be a

1009
01:24:41.880 --> 01:24:45.000
unique opportunity to see some of that
video and see some of those pictures and

1010
01:24:45.399 --> 01:24:49.079
hear from someone who's investigated that case, and he'll be there. He'll have

1011
01:24:49.119 --> 01:24:51.840
a table and you'll be able to
talk to him at the conference. So

1012
01:24:53.279 --> 01:24:57.239
we've got a lot of cool stuff. You know, check out ufocongress dot

1013
01:24:57.279 --> 01:25:01.960
com register and look at this speak
and check that out. That's what we're

1014
01:25:02.000 --> 01:25:05.159
doing. We're busy, busy,
busy with that. Also, of course,

1015
01:25:05.880 --> 01:25:10.960
for more UFO news, you can
go to our YouTube site and we

1016
01:25:11.039 --> 01:25:15.359
have spacing out with Maureen and Jason
that's done every other week. And then

1017
01:25:15.560 --> 01:25:19.479
of course you can always visit Openminds
dot tv, where we're writing about the

1018
01:25:19.640 --> 01:25:26.560
UFO news on a consistent basis.
Every day we're getting stories up. Busy,

1019
01:25:26.560 --> 01:25:30.640
busy busy. We're tweeting those,
we're facebooking those, so we're keeping

1020
01:25:30.680 --> 01:25:34.039
you all informed and you know,
not to toot our own harm. Well,

1021
01:25:34.079 --> 01:25:38.760
I guess it is exactly to tuot
our own horn. But really,

1022
01:25:38.840 --> 01:25:42.720
I think we're the best UFO news
outlet out there right now in that we're

1023
01:25:42.760 --> 01:25:46.279
working hard every day to get you
all the information out there on what's going

1024
01:25:46.319 --> 01:25:51.560
on. So check out Openminds dot
tv. Come to the UFO Congress and

1025
01:25:53.079 --> 01:25:55.760
meet us. I'll say I'll give
you a hug. If you come up

1026
01:25:55.800 --> 01:25:58.920
and say, yo, all one
hundred I need a hug, I'm gonna

1027
01:25:58.960 --> 01:26:00.880
give you a hug. Maybe you'll
get lucky and you'll get a hug from

1028
01:26:00.960 --> 01:26:03.840
Jason too bad. Least he'll give
you a handshake. He said it here

1029
01:26:03.880 --> 01:26:10.960
on the show, So check it
out. Also check us out next week

1030
01:26:11.000 --> 01:26:15.800
we'll have another exciting show. Thank
you all so much for listening, and

1031
01:26:15.920 --> 01:26:18.439
thank you for the people who do
the music, that is Caleb Hanks for

1032
01:26:18.479 --> 01:26:24.560
the opening music and two Earth Minutes
for the clothes. You all have a

1033
01:26:24.760 --> 01:26:30.680
wonderful week. Stay warm if you're
out there in the cool dairy regions this

1034
01:26:30.760 --> 01:30:00.159
week. Adios, smootatos us s
M