And it hits me, Oh my gosh, this is a triangle. You
know, there's explanation for everything that occurred in the randallsham Pars incident. It
doesn't involve aliens at all. It was completely silent. It comes right over
our heads. Classic fly. He's also really standing into clearly. He turned
over to my father and held his hand, and he looked in his eyes
and said, we're not alone. Welcome to Podcast UFO for our live show.
During the show, feel free to participate live in our chat room,
and don't forget to like us on our very active Facebook page. Hello,
and welcome to the show. I'm Martin willsher host, and we have a
fun show for you this evening. We have our guests is Nick Redfern repeat
guests. Always really love having him on the show. He's got a new
book. I think he's written fifty books so far on all kinds of interesting
topics, and this one is particularly interesting. We're gonna be talking about top
secret abduction files, what the government may or may not know. He always
dives deep into these subjects and should be really fun to talk to him.
Before that, I have Alejandro with a special guest visiting him. He's going
to be on the show in just a second. And we are live on
KGr A Radio and I want to say hi everyone over there and getting some
email from people over there, so that's that's always nice. And I'm getting
a lot of email from Australia. They're one of the big listeners of the
show, and I want to just say a little shout out to people over
there. Stacey, I think is one person's name. We also have Chris
from Tasmania who has written another blog and this one is the Valentech UFO incident
in Australia. He wrote about that. So check out podcast ufo dot com
and you'll see the blog is right there. And I want to thank everyone
that helps out with the show. We absolutely could not do it without you.
It's about a break even now and I really appreciate people helping out.
And all right, we're ready to get going. Ala Handro. How are
you, yes, sir, I'm doing well. How are you good?
You're kind of an awkward angle. I don't see now. I'm the guy
with the I have the stars behind me. I don't know if you can
see that. I have a new background, not as fancy as yours,
but my stars have fold marks in them, so copycat. Yeah. Yeah,
I can't see him. I can't see you at all, but I
assume you're there. I can hear you, and U must it's somebody that
is doing a very good impression of you, which I think would be difficult
because you have a unique voice. Oh wow, I think that's a boy.
You should be able to see me. It must be your skype or
something, because you're in your iPad or something like that. Anyway, Yeah,
I'm onp You have a sidekick? Does a sidekick want to wave high
to us? It's Mark D'Antonio. Hey, how are you Mark? Good
to see you, and I very nice to hear you. I wish I
could see you. But you know, we'll just blame it on ALAHNDO,
right, supposed to do. That's what we're always supposed to do, whatever
happens. Yeah, well, he always blames things on me, so that's
sort of paying it forward. I guess, right. Right, So you're
visiting Arizona and uh, actually, are you both going to the event coming
up in Baltimore. I am not going, but I believe he is.
Oh yeah, that's the alien con I believe don in Baltimore. I'll be
there. Yeah, all right, well I'll be there and I'll be doing
three different talks and participating in a panel. So they're going to keep me
busy. And we're gonna have a UFO Congress booth there where we're gonna be
selling super cool stuff, all right, and that's coming right up this weekend,
right that is the ninth through the eleventh. So what we adopt that?
Yeah? Yeah, yeah, following week Oh excellent. Okay, so
what is going on? Okay, so you want to get to a cup
before you start, Just before we start here, you start to tell me
that you are going to make something after the show. I don't want you
to forget to talk about that. Just remember that. And because I want
once we start talking UFOs I get excited about UFOs, you're gonna have to
remind me you're the set your job. I'll try. Yeah, all right,
write a note. Yeah, so what's going on? Okay? I
want to get to a couple of things. I'll touch it on this one
real quickly, just because it's a case that you brought this up on my
podcast actually, and it's an interesting case. I had not heard of but
it's in the Baltimore Sun. It's a case that happened sixty years ago in
that area Lock raven Uh Reservoir, where these two guys were driving in the
area in the fifties and they came across a large saucer in the sky.
It actually made their car stop. They got out. It had beamed a
light on them and before leaving, and then their car worked. What's great
about this case also that it was a Bluebook case, so it was something
that was investigated by the Air Force. Now they say that this case influenced
a lot of UFO research and a lot of UFO research in the area,
but I'm not aware. I had not heard of this case before. That's
why I think it's pretty cool. But I also think that it's cool that
it's in the Baltimore Sun. Of course I'll be heading there pretty soon,
just like you talked about. But yeah, that's one to check out that
people will find out Open Minds dot TV. You know. Another thing to
mention is you mentioned Valente, which who was this kid who was a pilot
and that case was something like forty years ago. I can't remember the exact
date, but since you mentioned it, I just wanted to talk about it
because there is a store in the media about that one as well, where
his girlfriend from the time was mentioned. But just to view that. Oh,
go over that one real quick. It's really interesting. This kid had
just essentially gotten his pilot's license, he was going to do his first solo
flight over water. Well, during this flight, he said he was being
followed by a large cylindrical glowing object that was flying around his plane, and
then he was never heard from again, and he nor the plane was ever
found. His girlfriend said in this recent article that he was actually worried about
his first solo flight over water, so she felt he kind of prophesized what
had happened, that something unfortunately negative did happen. Wow, But ahead I
wanted to get into another case just because Mark is here something else that's going
on. And I love this because it's always fun to educate the public on
great cases, but also to warn them of material that is not credible or
is not what it appears to be. So nineteen fifty two UFOs flew over
Washington, DC and actually there was a wave, so there's a period of
time. It's one of the best cases out there. In fact, because
it had happened and they had flown over National Airport or Airport National Airport there
in Washington, DC. Blue Book was investigating it and Captain Rupelt, whose
book you can read on this incident, he goes into it in detail,
was out there investigating it. He had to go home, but the weekend
after he went home, these things came back, and Blue Book personnel who
were there in Washington, DC actually went to the control tower and witnessed all
of this going down. It sounds much like you know stories that you hear
through history, including very similar to two and four in San Diego, what
happened to the Nimics Carrier Strike group like we hear about, but essentially seeing
these white lights, jets are scrambled when the jets get in the area,
these things dart off at very quick speeds, and in this case, it
was reported that once the jets left, they came back. So a great
case. However, why I'm bringing this up is that you will see this
in the UFO news because what had happened recently is that Tom DeLong and lu
Alesando Boast to the Stars Academy went and spoke in Rome recently and Louise Alesando,
you know, as a formerly random Pentagon UFO project, and in they
talked about this case because it's a great case, but they did show a
photo and it was this photo. And people see this out there often it's
crop where you just see you don't see these lines, but you see the
capital in these lights. Well, if you see the full photo here,
and this is a photo from nightcap, they draw lines from the lights down
on the street level up to the lights in the sky. Why because when
you take a picture of something in the dark where there are lights that are
overexposed like this, you'll often see kind of this in camera kind of flare
type of thing, and that this is not these aren't you votes, These
are flares. And I actually have a moof on photo expert here to talk
more about this reflection phenomena. Yeah, it's true, you know. And
the thing about lens flares is that they're symmetric across the center of the field.
So if you have a flare or an object that's up here right and
you have another bright object on the ground and you think maybe that's the source,
draw a line between it. Okay, Then if you have another one,
draw line between that in its potential source. If all the lines crossed
right in the very in one place, then you're actually crossing at the center
that that image frame. And that's typically what happens with flares. They danced
around symmetrically opposite the actual source object. So that's what I think we see
in that Washington one and in many, many hundreds and hundreds of others that
I've seen over the years. But you know, it doesn't mean that's all
we have. You know, there's certainly more to it. But that's in
that case. He's exactly right. While you're on the smart pinnacle of expertise
here, Mark, while you're talking about this, there was a great case
that the Mexican Air Force got involved and it was over oil oil um what
do they call them? Oil rigs? Oil rigs offshore and the same thing,
but they actually had radar, they had radar contact, they were they
had their camera out and they were filming, but they also had these same
refractions or something coming up from the from the oil. Derek's out there.
Do you know about that particular case. Is that a similar type situation?
I don't know about that. But see the thing here, well, the
thing with that case is I don't know that data. I haven't seen radar
data from that case personally, but radar data is always a good thing to
bring in. However, the problem is that sometimes photos that get taken are
conflated with the actual event and may have nothing to do with the event.
Like that photo that Hondro showed your moments ago with lights over the Capitol.
Those really are just lens flares, right, They really are an I'm using
almost one hundred percent certain that's what those are. But for Campechia, I
haven't heard of that case, but it could be more information on compet chain.
Oh there we go, and of course we have a story on this
and Open Mindset TV. But you aren't exactly right. And a similar process
was used to determine that those were the oil rigs. Because I was a
skeptic too, I did not think those were the oil rigs. How can
these Mexican Air Force guys who are used to working these machines mistake these flames
coming up from oil rigs as UFOs? I thought, there's no way,
But you know what, it turns out the work of Ben McGee had proven
this to me. He actually did a process that's similar to what Mark described,
and I'll talk about it. And then I turned out there was actually
a Mexican UFO researcher who had done this at the time that those videos came
out, so he had done the same thing prior. But essentially what they
did was take the path of the plane, draw that on a map,
and then draw lines from those that position to where these oil rigs are.
And as Ben McGee puts it, and he does it, we've got a
story on Open Minds, and we've got Ben McGee's talk on this. I
was there he did this in Las Vegas, and he clearly demonstrates this well.
That way you can predict the lights. So when you draw these lines,
you know exactly when the plane will see what lights and they line up
perfectly right, So he was able to undeniably demonstrate that those were indeed the
lights. And for me, when I saw Ben go through this process,
it was like a real aha moment. It was like, Oh my gosh,
he just proved to me what I never thought could be true. I
never thought it could be those oil rigs. But yeah, when you draw
those lines, you can show they line up precisely. Yeah. Yeah,
But again, it's not like you got to throw the baby out with the
bathwater, right, you know, there's really something was, really something going
on at that time. I don't know if Campeche was. I don't think
anything was really going on in competion. I don't think there was a UFO
incident there. Okay, so we'll throw the baby out with the bathwater.
Not necessarily, it's just when you throw when all there is his bathwater,
that's all you got. Now we've got a baby in Washington, DC.
Because in Washington, DC, we do have radar data. We have also
a ton of witnesses, including Blue Book personnel themselves, so there's a lot
more data. And we had jets scrambled to chase these scenes, so we
have a lot more data and witness testimony when it comes to Washington, d
C. In nineteen fifty two as compared to the Campag case. I see,
Hey, going back to the case, we were talking about the very
first one at that lock in Baltimore, I believe it was. Yeah,
so that one you and I were talking on your show about the professor of
history that looks into UFOs and by the way he did it, he is
going to be on the show. By the way, I think he's been
on any shows. I haven't seen him. I looked all through everywhere.
I couldn't find him on anything. So it's taken a chance. But Professor
of History ought to be very interesting when it comes to beat me to another
one. Yeah, you know, that's the sort of thing where I feel
that you can't lose that someone like that is going to say something interesting.
I noticed he wrote some stories for the Smithsonian, and he does seem to
draw a correlation between people claiming to have alien experiences and the movies, especially
Close Encounters, coming out with alien type characters. So it sounds like he's
a bit skeptical in that arena. However, he's definitely into the topic and
I think what he'll have to share is going to be fascinating. So that's
a good job, good job on getting him. Yeah, well it's just
an email. Hey Alajandro, Hey you and Mark, but you still had
the Oh wait, you still have to tell me what you guys are going
to do after the show. So Mark and I don't know he can explain
to you how but let me have him explain. Oh sure, Well,
you know what, um, when you're when you do things like we do,
we talk, we investigate UFOs, sometimes you have to have an outlet.
And one of my outlets that I like that I really think is amazing
is primal music. That is, uh, the aboriginal music from Australia.
And you think about what kind of instruments they use. They use these things
that were basically termite hollowed logs and they would create this, you know,
a world sound, and that sound is generated by standing wave inside the tube.
It's called but don't worry about that. It's it's actually called it did
you redo? And that did you redou can and has been used for a
long time, centuries actually to create and uh stories and in the dream time,
uh, in Aboriginal culture. So uh, tonight we're actually gonna make
did you redus. We're gonna take a little modern approach. We're gonna actually
use PBC pipe, which can great bell be used as well. Special right,
yeah, yeah. You have to do circular breathing, which is basically
like you constantly are breathing out of your mouth while taking breath breath in through
your nose. So if your listeners want to try that, let them try
it. But you know, make sure you hold on to something because you
might pass out if you're trying to do that too much. That's pretty cool.
Well that's what we're gonna do. We're gonna build did you adues?
And we've got a group of people that are getting together tonight to do it.
Wow. Yeah, that sounds really like New Age type of stuff to
me. But no, it sounds like sounds new Agy maybe, but the
Aborigines have been doing it for centuries. No, No, I'm interested.
I'm just giving you hard time. All right, you two guys, thanks,
thanks so much for checking in and have fun with you. Did you
aduce? We will? All right? Well did you redo? Just for
you? All right? I can't wait. All right, talk to you
next week, all right, see yeah, all right everyone. So,
our guest is Nick Redfern. He's always always a pleasure to have on the
show, and this this week we are going to be talking about his fiftieth
book. You heard it right, fiftieth book. He really puts out a
lot of work and this one is called top secret Alien Abduction Abduction Files.
What the government doesn't want you to know. Nick, Welcome to the show.
How are you, hey, Martin? I'm doing good. Thanks those
things very good. Good as always. Um, And I've always, I've
always talked to you about You're the only one I know that is so discipline
to write. How does it feel to get to your fiftieth book? I
don't know, really. I mean, if you ask me when I did
the first book in ninety seven that twenty years later i'd have done fifty,
I'd have probably said, there's no way. But but you know, I
mean, it's it's what I enjoy doing, you know. And it's sort
of these situations where I sort of I'm sort of pretty driven in the way
that I am the right I write the books. For example, I like
to saw to stick to what I call working out as I saw. I
used to get off about seven and have some breakfast and had three emails,
mess around on Facebook. And I do writing for the books and the magazines
from nine to five Monday to Friday. But evenings and weekends I can literally
completely switch off. I don't do any work on evenings and don't work any
weekends. That's for me, evenings and weekends for having a good time.
And but I you know, I do put in like an eight hour day
Monday to Friday, like just like a regular job. But I wouldn't want
people to think that I consider it just a job. You know, for
me, it's a passion that I've turned into a career as well. And
for me, as long as I have that passion that excitements that sort of
sense of wow, you know, this is really interesting, I've got to
investigate this. As long as all that, I'll keep doing it, you
know what I mean, because it's what I enjoy doing, whether it's investigating
big foot up a cabra ufo encounters. So yes, you know, as
long as I'm happy doing it and I can keep coming up with new material,
which is an important thing. You don't want to just keep going overall
ground. That was my next question. I was going to ask you how
do you come up with the topics that you come up within and when you're
talking about this discipline work that you do, the nine to five so to
speak, how do you do that when it comes to the research, I
mean, you know, boots on the ground, like you may have to
go somewhere and look at files or something like that. Do you kind of
keep it the same way or is that in a whole different way? Yeah,
that's that actually is pretty much a lot different. I mean, for
the most part, you know, I am sort of working from home during
the day. But yeah, if I'm sort of going out somewhere, you
know, someone, Let's say hypothetically, I mean, I live just outside
Dallas, and if somebody phones me up and say, you know, I've
got a really interesting story, pictures, etc. And they're down in Houston,
which is like a five hour drive from me, then yeah, that'll
be totally different. You know, I'll go down there and just grab a
room for overnight, you know, and and chat with the witness and so
that that's sort of totally difference. Yeah, But in terms of actually doing
the research, you know, and coming up with new ideas, I mean,
I guess I take sort of like a journalistic approach of just digging out
stories, you know, and particularly somebody shares a story and they're okay about
using it, and then I'll sort of look further into the story and further
and further and get further leads and additional sources and contacts, and the story
then starts to kind of build itself, you know, it sort of has
its own momentum almost. I see now about topics though, how does that
do you like her? Do you test that by talking to people? Or
how do you how do you figure out how to you know, how to
come up with a topic that's your next Yeah, that's a good question.
I mean, sometimes it's purely and simply because there's something that I really want
to write about, um, and so that's what I do. But then
there are other occasions where a story falls in my lap, which is like,
well, that's that's a really cool story, and I look into it
further and find a lot of other cool aspects to the story, and so
you know, then I then I pursue it further. Sometimes, you know,
you just stumble on something by mistake or you know, whether you're not
even trying, and the more you look into it, the more you think,
wow, you know, there's X number of people who know something about
this, but they've never really shared their their story and again if they find
with the stories being told, et cetera. But a lot of it,
I guess sort of comes from me having particularly interests in certain areas and just
you know, just digging around for things that fall into those categories, like
big foots or like monsters, Jubber Cabra men in Black. I just you
know, sort of pursue leads really and then expand them to like a book.
Lymp I guess, So how did this particular book, Alien Abduction Files?
How did that? How did that begin? Well? Yeah, I
mean with this book like it like with any book. You know, I'm
not just somebody who writes books. I always also read books, you know.
And and of course if you're going to read a book and write a
book, you want the audience to think, well, you know, this
is you know, this is a good book. Not only is a good
book, but it's a new material or a new slant or a new angle
on the subject. And I think that's important. You know, if you're
writing books, you have a responsibility to your readership to give them something new,
you know, with each book. So with this particular book, Top
Secret Alien Abduction Files. Now, over the years and decades, dozens and
dozens of books have been written on alien abductions. You know, You've got
like John Fuller's The Interrupted Journey back in the sixties on the Betting Barney Hill
case, Bod Hopkins Missing Time, which was like one of the definitive books
on the subjects around seventy nine, eighty eighty one, and of course Whitley
Strieber's communion, the late John Mack his books and so on, and the
subject of abductions interests me anyway. But the one angle that i'd heard snippets
of, and I think a lot of people have heard snippets of but had
not been really fleshed out to any significant degree, was what government agencies may
know about abductions, about abductees, about the agenda that's involved. And so
I did what I always do. I sort of take a journalistic approach,
tried to track down as many people who had made comments on this or had
experiences, you know, with people from the government asking them about their abductions,
and again just sort of you know, developed a situation where more and
more data came forward, and to the point where I was able to make
a full manuscript that presented a new well that's much a new angle, but
new data demonstrating this connection between government agencies and what they know about abductions.
But to demonstrate that this is you know, an importance and intriguing aspect of
the phenomena, namely not just the nature of the abductions and the abductees,
but looking at how and why government agencies are concerned by this as well.
Right, Okay, well, hey Nick, we're at our first break,
so we're going to go to break and so we'll hold that thought and we'll
come back to it, all right, all right, So this is Martin.
I'm with podcast UFO and my guest is Nick Redfern, and we'll be
right back. Nick. I mentioned to you that we're going to we'll chat
about off topics. We'll get back to the topic we were on UM.
So I was just trying to think of something different to talk to you about
while we're on break and UM. And if this is too personal, just
please let me know. But I'm I wondered how you came about coming to
UM to live in the United States and end up near Dallas. Oh yeah,
that's no problem. That's on the problem at all. Okay, So
so how did that all? How did that all fallen? Sorry, believe
that you wanted to keep that for the show. Oh no, no,
that's this is break break stuff. Oh I see. Okay, Well,
yeah, this was two thousand and two thousand and one. I've been over
to the United States as far back as ninety eight for like lectures and conferences.
But one of the people I met during the course of sort of doing
the whole conference scene and so on was a guy named Ryan Wood. And
Ryan was someone who used to investigate all the Majestic twelve documents with his dad,
doctor Gobwood, and they did a huge amount of work on this.
And one occasion it was like just over a couple of beers at the bar,
Ryan said, you know, I'm looking for someone who can work for
me full time doing research and investigations and looking into these documents and tracking down
people who might know anything about it. And you know, I was in
the UK then, and you know, I didn't have any ties or anything
like that at all. And so he basically said to me, you know,
he said, would you be interested in And I said, well,
yeah, sure. And you know, as I said, you know,
I enjoy it sort of just traveling around here and there. I've never been
one to worry about, you know, not putting roots down. I'm fine
with, you know, just wherever the things take you. And so I
basically went through the whole immigration process and you know, which took about eighteen
months. But in during that period, you know that I think about four
months after I first applied with the immigration people, you know, I was
given a social Security number and then permission to work, et cetera. So
that then obviously Ryan had to wait until you know, I was legally able
to do all this, and then I became fully illegal, like about eighteen
months after that, And that's how it all began. Really, it was
just pure coincidence or fate ever you want to term it, that I happen
to be at the conference at the same time Ryan was looking someone to work
for him full time, and I was someone who didn't have and didn't have
any particular ties that would you know, prevent me from doing it and prevent
me from sort of traveling around the country and doing research for instance. Wow.
Perfect, all right, everyone, Welcome back. My guests tonight is
Nick Redfern on YouTube. The show does play on the Dark Matter Digital Network
on Thursdays as well. Hello to everyone over there. There's a lot a
lot of people listen. O listen over there. Nick. Before we went
to break, you were talking about, you know, the interests that certain
government agencies. Are you talking about government agencies in which countries or all countries
that are other several countries. I mean, well, the ones I focus
on in the book of the United States and the UK. And that's primarily
because you know, being familiar and coming from the UK and living in the
US, um, you know, I'm more familiar with the events in those
nations. So in that sense, you know, I've focused on some cases
which are overseas in other countries, but predominantly, you know, I do
sort of focus in on the US primarily and then the UK. Uh huh.
And so can you go into a little bit about now the title of
your book, of course, is abduction Files, and that kind of insinuates,
at least to me, that you're talking about some possible documents that came
out of our Freedom of Information Act or something like that, or that have
been unclassified now or something. Yeah, that's that's exactly what it's about.
You know, people have said to be well, several people have said words
to the effect of or when look, just like you said, when you're
talking about files, you're talking about documentation rather than just witness testimony. And
said, yes, now I start the book with the whole contact tea movement
of the nineteen fifties. You know, we had the contact teas in the
fifties and then the sixties onwards you had the abduction phenomena with the abductees.
Now, the reason why I do this is because, through the Freedom of
Information Act, the FBI, for example, been very good at declassifying their
previously classified files on many of the early contact teas like Georgia Damski, Truman
Beetham, George van Tassel or Feo Angel Lucy, and George Hunt Williamson.
They were some of the early contact teas. And for people who don't know
what the contact teas are, basically, in the early fifties, rather than
having people abducted by these sort of bug eyed little creatures, people talked about
having been invited by what we're called the social Space Brothers. Now, the
best way I can sort of describe the Space Brothers is that they were sort
of long haired, very human looking, and in many respects looking just like
us. And one of the important things about this is that the many of
the Space Brothers told the so called contact teas like Adamski that one of their
big turns was the threat of atomic war. And so what you had was
a situation where people were following people like George Damski developed huge followings, and
so what you had was a situation where the FBI got very concerned because people
like George Davski was saying that many of the contacts give me many of the
Space Brothers had a form of government, not unlike communism, and of course
this was the fifties, you know, Artheism and so on. And as
a result, the FBI got very concerned that some of these contact teas were
sort of swaying people around the communism, and that's why many of these files
were opened. But the important thing is the files were opened also because the
contact teas were claiming human alien interaction. So I mentioned all this in the
book because it demonstrates despite some people have said that the guds never investigated people
who claimed to have seen aliens, well that's not the case. I mean,
George Adamski's FBI file is about one hundred and fifty pages long. George
van Tassel's is more than three hundred pages. Than I could go on and
on, and so that that were that sort of demonstrates, if you like,
there was a precedent, if you like, to be adductions, namely
in the form of the contacts, Nick, do you think a lot of
that had to do with the fact that they could gather such a large crowd
and had such influence on a large crowd of people. I mean, do
you think that's part of why the I mean, I personally would think that's
part of why the FBI would have a file on them. I'm sure they
do on religious and cult leaders the same thing. Well, Nick's phone went
dead for a little while, so I thought it'd be a good place to
end the show for the free part of the show, and I want to
thank you all for listening. Anyone can help us out, and for two
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like. All the informations on podcast ufo dot com. And I wouldn't be
doing this, believe me, if this show didn't cost some money for a
weekly from my show producer, plus all the other expenses including bandwidth and dedicated
server and all these different things I have to have. So anyway, it's
just barely in the black and that's okay. It's in the black right now,
and so that's good. So anyway, I do thank you for listening.
I do appreciate all listeners of this show. And we'll be back next
week with Alejandro Rojas. So remember to keep your eyes to the sky.