WEBVTT 1 00:00:23.839 --> 00:00:28.320 Welcome back to the Pathway Chili. I'm Robin, I'm Jules, and I'm 2 00:00:28.359 --> 00:00:34.439 Ashley. Let's dive right into this week's case. July eleventh, nineteen eighty 3 00:00:34.479 --> 00:00:40.159 eight, Walnut Creek, California, Lester Garnier, a thirty year old vice 4 00:00:40.200 --> 00:00:45.159 officer with the San Francisco Police Department, is found shot to death inside his 5 00:00:45.240 --> 00:00:51.200 car in a shopping center parking lot. Eyewitnesses recalled seeing at least two unidentified 6 00:00:51.240 --> 00:00:56.439 blonde women in the parking lot the previous night, and there's speculation that Lester's 7 00:00:56.479 --> 00:01:00.880 murder might be connected to his involvement in a recent high profile out bust of 8 00:01:00.880 --> 00:01:04.959 a teenage sex trafficking ring. Twenty years later, it's announced that a fingerprint 9 00:01:04.959 --> 00:01:10.359 from the crime scene has been matched to a Scottish woman with an extensive criminal 10 00:01:10.400 --> 00:01:14.840 history. However, there's not enough evidence to make an arrest, and the 11 00:01:14.879 --> 00:01:19.760 motive for Lester's murder remains unknown. After that, the path went Chiley. 12 00:01:21.640 --> 00:01:26.200 So today we'll be exploring an unsolved cold case involving a police officer, the 13 00:01:26.280 --> 00:01:30.280 nineteen eighty eight murder of Lester Garnier. This story was profiled during the first 14 00:01:30.280 --> 00:01:34.319 season of Unsolved Mysteries, and I consider it to be one of the more 15 00:01:34.439 --> 00:01:38.760 underrated cases featured on the show. Since her segment was only about ten minutes 16 00:01:38.840 --> 00:01:42.560 long, they really didn't have the luxury of delving as deeply into this story 17 00:01:42.599 --> 00:01:45.840 as they could have. But when I originally covered it on The Trail Went 18 00:01:45.879 --> 00:01:49.120 Cold five years ago, it turned out to be quite a rabbit hole. 19 00:01:49.959 --> 00:01:53.959 Lester was an undercover vice officer who was by all accounts, really good at 20 00:01:53.000 --> 00:01:57.640 his job and well liked by everyone who knew him, so it was difficult 21 00:01:57.640 --> 00:02:00.159 to figure out a motive for this murder. There was a lot of speculation 22 00:02:00.280 --> 00:02:05.400 that the crime is connected to a recent bust of a teenage sex trafficking ring, 23 00:02:05.719 --> 00:02:09.000 which implicated some high profile figures and turned out to be a major scandal 24 00:02:09.039 --> 00:02:14.199 for the city of San Francisco. However, many years later, a partial 25 00:02:14.240 --> 00:02:20.039 fingerprint eventually led investigators to a Scottish national named Catherine Koontz, and this revelation 26 00:02:20.199 --> 00:02:24.240 only raised more questions than answers. Kons had quite a checkered history, including 27 00:02:24.280 --> 00:02:29.879 alleged involvement in another murder for hire plot, but to this day, no 28 00:02:29.919 --> 00:02:34.199 one has ever been able to find a tangible connection between her and Lester Garnier. 29 00:02:34.919 --> 00:02:37.960 That's just one reason the crime is still unsolved. But we're going to 30 00:02:38.000 --> 00:02:43.319 attempt to piece together this convoluted story on today's episode. This case is really 31 00:02:43.360 --> 00:02:46.719 scary because you have a victim who's a vice officer, so it's someone who's 32 00:02:46.719 --> 00:02:53.840 assigned to cover things like gambling, sex trafficking, sex work, high end 33 00:02:53.960 --> 00:02:57.759 drug cartel things, and so he's obviously going to be in a very risky 34 00:02:57.800 --> 00:03:02.960 position because a lot of those crimes include high profile individuals. You have politicians, 35 00:03:04.000 --> 00:03:07.199 you have attorneys, you have other police officers that can sometimes be involved 36 00:03:07.240 --> 00:03:14.159 in those crimes behind the scenes, even just providing access to different resources and 37 00:03:14.199 --> 00:03:17.719 all for the criminals. And then you add a woman who is a foreign 38 00:03:17.800 --> 00:03:24.080 nationalist and she is known to have a background that's quite shady and might even 39 00:03:24.080 --> 00:03:28.800 include a murder for hire. I know you said there's no evidence to link 40 00:03:28.840 --> 00:03:32.439 her, but there is a fingerprint there, and there's really also no way 41 00:03:32.479 --> 00:03:38.479 to explain away the fingerprint. Is that correct? Not really no, But 42 00:03:38.560 --> 00:03:40.800 as we're going to talk about, there are going to be like multiple people 43 00:03:40.960 --> 00:03:46.400 seen around the murder scene on the night of Lester's death. So there's talk 44 00:03:46.439 --> 00:03:49.919 about how well, it doesn't really prove that she killed him, only that 45 00:03:50.039 --> 00:03:52.759 she was near Lester's car. So if you tried to put her on trial, 46 00:03:52.840 --> 00:03:54.439 she could just say, oh, I just met him and I touched 47 00:03:54.439 --> 00:03:58.919 the windshield, but I left before he was killed. So that's probably the 48 00:03:58.960 --> 00:04:01.639 main reason they haven't charged. And of course the other complication is that no 49 00:04:01.680 --> 00:04:05.919 one can figure out what connection she has with Lester and what motive she would 50 00:04:05.960 --> 00:04:12.080 have had to kill him. Our story begins in nineteen eighty eight in Walnut 51 00:04:12.120 --> 00:04:16.560 Creek, California, a city located in the San Francisco Bay Area just outside 52 00:04:16.560 --> 00:04:21.399 of Oakland. At around nine am on the morning of July eleventh, a 53 00:04:21.480 --> 00:04:27.000 groundskeeper came across a blue nineteen eighty four Corvette in the parking lot of a 54 00:04:27.000 --> 00:04:30.319 Wood Creek shopping center. Sitting in the driver's seat was the body of a 55 00:04:30.360 --> 00:04:34.720 young man who'd been shot twice at close range, once in the head and 56 00:04:34.759 --> 00:04:40.480 once in the abdomen. He was soon identified as Lester Garnier, a thirty 57 00:04:40.560 --> 00:04:45.680 year old off duty police officer with the San Francisco Police Department. Lester lived 58 00:04:45.720 --> 00:04:48.439 in the nearby city of Concord and had been on the force for eight years. 59 00:04:49.120 --> 00:04:53.759 Born to a pair of Asian immigrant parents, Anthony and Jean Garnier, 60 00:04:54.319 --> 00:04:58.720 Lester and his younger sister, Margo, were raised in San Francisco's Mission District. 61 00:04:59.439 --> 00:05:01.199 At the age of I was seventeen, Lester was a member of the 62 00:05:01.199 --> 00:05:05.360 Columbia Park Boys and Girls Club and won their Boy of the Year award, 63 00:05:05.800 --> 00:05:10.480 which earned him a trip to the White House to meet then President Gerald Ford. 64 00:05:11.360 --> 00:05:15.399 He eventually joined the San Francisco Police Department and garnered two commendations during his 65 00:05:15.480 --> 00:05:21.000 first four years of service before transferring to Vice in nineteen eighty four. Having 66 00:05:21.040 --> 00:05:26.319 grown up in the Mission District, Lester was an ideal candidate to do undercover 67 00:05:26.399 --> 00:05:30.519 work, as he often posed as a customer in order to arrest sex workers. 68 00:05:30.360 --> 00:05:34.839 Lester apparently had such a charming personality that many of the women he arrested 69 00:05:34.920 --> 00:05:39.279 had glowing things to say about him, even though he was taking them to 70 00:05:39.360 --> 00:05:44.000 jail. In fact, Lester seemed to be so well liked that he wound 71 00:05:44.040 --> 00:05:47.720 up being praised by the Office of Citizens Complaints because of the lack of complaints 72 00:05:47.720 --> 00:05:51.759 stemming from his arrests. Overall, he was known as an honest by the 73 00:05:51.759 --> 00:05:58.120 book cop who always followed proper procedure and was planning to start training in narcotics. 74 00:05:58.879 --> 00:06:01.680 However, Lester was not planning to do police work forever, as he 75 00:06:01.759 --> 00:06:05.279 was hoping to retire in a decade or so and had been preparing for the 76 00:06:05.319 --> 00:06:10.759 future. After purchasing a new round style house with a pool and concord, 77 00:06:11.279 --> 00:06:14.680 Lester brought his parents there to live with him, as it was a major 78 00:06:14.800 --> 00:06:17.879 upgrade from their own home. He was able to afford his corvette by taking 79 00:06:17.879 --> 00:06:23.439 on some part time security jobs and receiving a loan from the Police Credit Union. 80 00:06:24.120 --> 00:06:27.439 Lester also bought a push cart and was planning to open his own hot 81 00:06:27.480 --> 00:06:31.240 dog stand with his best friend Wispay Aish, and if successful, they would 82 00:06:31.279 --> 00:06:35.000 open more of them and turn it into a business. The two men had 83 00:06:35.000 --> 00:06:39.279 been approved for a small business license, which was ready to be picked up 84 00:06:39.279 --> 00:06:43.399 at the Hall of Justice, and in a cruel twist, wis Fay was 85 00:06:43.399 --> 00:06:47.720 standing outside the building waiting for Lester on the very same morning his body was 86 00:06:47.759 --> 00:06:54.439 discovered. So this case really does it highlights his career and it says, 87 00:06:54.480 --> 00:06:59.279 listen, he is an upstanding officer. He's someone that the people that he's 88 00:06:59.399 --> 00:07:03.800 arresting actually have respect for and he's trying to do the right thing. He's 89 00:07:03.839 --> 00:07:09.600 trying to do the moral right thing, and family responsibility is a big priority 90 00:07:09.600 --> 00:07:12.720 for him. And he's even finding ways that he's going to pivot out of 91 00:07:12.839 --> 00:07:16.399 law enforcement to open this hot dog cart and maybe turn it into a little 92 00:07:16.399 --> 00:07:20.879 business with his friend and something that provides for his family. And then he's 93 00:07:21.240 --> 00:07:27.160 murdered. Do we know if there had been any concerns on his part by 94 00:07:27.360 --> 00:07:31.560 people who maybe were trying to bribe him manipulate him in some of these cases, 95 00:07:31.800 --> 00:07:34.879 and because he was a good officer, he had actually turned that down 96 00:07:34.959 --> 00:07:40.959 or escalated charges against individuals. No, we haven't heard anything like that about 97 00:07:40.959 --> 00:07:45.040 anyone attempting to bribe him. And he never said anything to anybody that someone 98 00:07:45.079 --> 00:07:46.839 is threatening my life, that they're trying to get me to shut up and 99 00:07:46.879 --> 00:07:50.120 look the other way if I take a bribe. So this is why I 100 00:07:50.160 --> 00:07:54.240 took everyone by complete surprise, is that, as far as they are aware, 101 00:07:54.279 --> 00:07:57.959 or he was not working on anything really dangerous that should have put his 102 00:07:58.040 --> 00:08:01.199 life at risk, and he was off duty when he was killed, So 103 00:08:01.240 --> 00:08:05.680 they were wondering why did decide to cancel his meet up with his friend in 104 00:08:05.759 --> 00:08:09.519 order to go to this shopping center. Like I just said, no one 105 00:08:09.560 --> 00:08:13.240 could figure out why Lester was at the Wood Creek shopping Center to begin with. 106 00:08:13.079 --> 00:08:16.040 On the evening of July to tenth, Lester had been having dinner with 107 00:08:16.040 --> 00:08:20.800 his parents at his home and received two phone calls. They had no idea 108 00:08:20.800 --> 00:08:24.399 who the calls were from, though Lester's father had answered one of them and 109 00:08:24.439 --> 00:08:28.199 claimed the caller was a woman. Lester was planning to meet wisp Fay to 110 00:08:28.199 --> 00:08:31.240 see a movie and left his house at eight forty five pm. However, 111 00:08:31.240 --> 00:08:35.440 about fifteen minutes later, Lester called up Whisfay on his car phone to say 112 00:08:35.480 --> 00:08:39.600 he wouldn't be able to make it to the movie because he was running late, 113 00:08:39.000 --> 00:08:43.679 though he didn't provide any further explanation. Later that evening, whis Fay 114 00:08:43.720 --> 00:08:46.960 tried to call Lester back on his car phone, but received no answer. 115 00:08:48.960 --> 00:08:52.159 A witness would tell police that they remembered seeing Lester's corvette in the shopping center 116 00:08:52.240 --> 00:08:58.519 parking lot at around ten forty five pm. Shortly thereafter, a carpet layer 117 00:08:58.559 --> 00:09:01.559 working inside one of the nearby stores went out to his truck and claimed he 118 00:09:01.559 --> 00:09:05.200 heard a pair of loud noises. Since this was the week after the Fourth 119 00:09:05.200 --> 00:09:09.919 of July, he thought the sounds were nothing more than firecrackers, though it 120 00:09:09.000 --> 00:09:13.519 later became a parent that he probably heard the gunshots which killed Lester. A 121 00:09:13.519 --> 00:09:18.440 few minutes later, the carpet layer said he saw two blond women, one 122 00:09:18.440 --> 00:09:20.879 in the late twenties and the other in the mid thirties, walking through the 123 00:09:20.919 --> 00:09:26.679 parking lot before they each got into separate vehicles and drove away. One of 124 00:09:26.720 --> 00:09:30.840 the vehicles was described as a faded blue Toyota pickup, while the other was 125 00:09:30.879 --> 00:09:35.279 either a Toyota or Datsun car with white or gray paint. The phone call 126 00:09:35.320 --> 00:09:39.799 that lures him away from his parents' house seemed to be or could have been, 127 00:09:41.320 --> 00:09:43.120 a call that said, hey, we need to meet with you. 128 00:09:43.159 --> 00:09:46.360 We have information, we need to talk. And he not only leaves his 129 00:09:46.440 --> 00:09:50.240 parents' house, but then he also has to call his friend and say, 130 00:09:50.240 --> 00:09:54.639 I can't make it to a movie, so he's changing plans that he already 131 00:09:54.639 --> 00:09:58.159 had in place that evening. I would love to know who called him, 132 00:09:58.279 --> 00:10:03.440 and I'd also I love to know is this foreign woman whose fingerprints were left 133 00:10:03.480 --> 00:10:07.480 at the scene. Is she blonde, and does she have access to one 134 00:10:07.480 --> 00:10:11.240 of the cars that's been described here. I don't know if she was driving 135 00:10:11.240 --> 00:10:13.399 a specific car like that at that time, but yes, she was blonde. 136 00:10:13.399 --> 00:10:18.240 She was in her twenty so it seems very likely that she was one 137 00:10:18.240 --> 00:10:20.440 of the two blonde women seen in the parking lot. But to this day, 138 00:10:20.480 --> 00:10:24.399 no one has figured out who the other blonde woman could be, which 139 00:10:24.120 --> 00:10:28.200 brings up the problem of reasonable doubt is how do you approve which of them 140 00:10:28.320 --> 00:10:31.559 might have killed Lester? And what do you think about those phone calls that 141 00:10:31.639 --> 00:10:37.120 he got that then had him change his plans that evening. I'm not sure 142 00:10:37.159 --> 00:10:41.200 because it doesn't I know that Lester liked to sometimes work during his off duty 143 00:10:41.240 --> 00:10:45.120 hours to try to build up other cases, but I just don't know what 144 00:10:45.159 --> 00:10:48.600 would be so important that he would leave on that particular night and blow off 145 00:10:48.679 --> 00:10:52.879 like a plan with his friends and go to that particular shopping center. If 146 00:10:52.879 --> 00:10:56.240 it was a woman, perhaps, I mean, if it was work related, 147 00:10:56.320 --> 00:10:58.759 say something came up, would you lie to Wis Fay and just say 148 00:10:58.799 --> 00:11:03.879 I'm running late so I can't come, or maybe not lie, but maybe 149 00:11:03.039 --> 00:11:07.080 just kind of lie by omission that you're not going to be putting the truth 150 00:11:07.120 --> 00:11:09.879 out there saying, oh, I'm going to meet up with a contact or 151 00:11:09.879 --> 00:11:13.600 something. Do you think he would just say, Hey, something work related 152 00:11:13.639 --> 00:11:16.879 came up. I can't make it. I'm sorry. I'll see you tomorrow 153 00:11:16.919 --> 00:11:20.440 where we pick up our license for our hot dog business, which I love. 154 00:11:20.480 --> 00:11:22.519 By the way, this was like the beginning of food trucks, just 155 00:11:22.559 --> 00:11:26.480 this hot dog stand and that they had this idea for this empire of hot 156 00:11:26.519 --> 00:11:30.960 dogs. Yeah, they're going to have a franchise. How fun. It's 157 00:11:31.000 --> 00:11:33.279 so cool. I just think it's so ambitious. And Ashley and I were 158 00:11:33.279 --> 00:11:37.159 talking about side hustles before we started, and clearly he had his eye on 159 00:11:37.159 --> 00:11:41.000 this side hustle and was ready to retire in ten years. And for someone 160 00:11:41.000 --> 00:11:45.960 who's thirty, that's pretty impressive. I just I think maybe if you were 161 00:11:45.960 --> 00:11:48.279 going to ditch your friend, and you were going to ditch plans, and 162 00:11:48.320 --> 00:11:50.879 you were you were going to meet up with a man, a woman, 163 00:11:50.960 --> 00:11:56.919 whomever, somebody that you were romantically interested in, you might feel like kind 164 00:11:56.919 --> 00:11:58.960 of an ass for being like, oh, sorry, I don't want to 165 00:12:00.120 --> 00:12:03.279 hang out with you, or I'm going to ditch this, or I'm going 166 00:12:03.320 --> 00:12:07.600 to like not show up because I'd rather do this. That doesn't sound so 167 00:12:07.679 --> 00:12:11.799 good. But you might just go sorry running late, and then just kind 168 00:12:11.799 --> 00:12:16.279 of lie by omission because it sounds better than being like sorry, This sounds 169 00:12:16.279 --> 00:12:18.799 like more fun than the movie date with you and Ashley. Since you were 170 00:12:18.799 --> 00:12:22.240 asking about side hustles, you now got a new one. Hot dogs. 171 00:12:22.440 --> 00:12:24.559 Yes, hot dogs. I'm all about it, guys, all about it. 172 00:12:26.840 --> 00:12:30.960 Shortly before the carpet layer saw the two blonde women, another witness had 173 00:12:30.960 --> 00:12:33.679 been driving through the parking lot and said that he saw a blonde climbing out 174 00:12:33.720 --> 00:12:39.440 of Lester's corvette. She exited the front seat through the passenger side, walked 175 00:12:39.440 --> 00:12:43.240 around the vehicle, and took a quick look through the driver's side window before 176 00:12:43.279 --> 00:12:48.519 walking away. Under hypnosis, the witness was able to help create a composite 177 00:12:48.600 --> 00:12:52.000 sketch of the woman. When shown to the carpet layer. He thought the 178 00:12:52.000 --> 00:12:56.639 sketch resembled the shorter of the two blonde women he'd seen, though it could 179 00:12:56.639 --> 00:13:01.200 not be conclusively confirmed if they were the same person, since the corvette was 180 00:13:01.279 --> 00:13:05.720 parked across three spaces and the parking lights were on. Many of Lester's fellow 181 00:13:05.720 --> 00:13:09.399 officers suspected that he was planning to meet someone, as it was common practice 182 00:13:09.399 --> 00:13:13.039 for cops to park in such a fashion for meetups so that no one would 183 00:13:13.039 --> 00:13:18.000 sneak up on them. Lester's police badge and his wallet were found in his 184 00:13:18.039 --> 00:13:22.039 glove compartment, though his car keys were missing. Even though Lester owned two 185 00:13:22.080 --> 00:13:26.159 guns and usually carried at least one of them while he was off duty, 186 00:13:26.559 --> 00:13:30.919 he left both of his guns at home that night. That is a little 187 00:13:30.960 --> 00:13:35.039 bit odd to me and indicates either this is an informant or someone he's meeting 188 00:13:35.120 --> 00:13:37.919 up with that he believes there's zero risk with right that someone maybe he's been 189 00:13:37.960 --> 00:13:43.360 working with for years, or it is something like you were saying, Jules, 190 00:13:43.399 --> 00:13:46.039 Maybe he's waiting to meet up with someone who he's getting to know that 191 00:13:46.080 --> 00:13:48.279 he wants to take on a date, that he wants to follow up a 192 00:13:48.320 --> 00:13:54.639 phone conversation with something that's platonic, that's romantic. But if it's something related 193 00:13:54.639 --> 00:13:58.120 to his job, I feel like even an informant that you had a good 194 00:13:58.200 --> 00:14:01.200 rapport with, wouldn't you bring a gun just for backup, knowing they're tied 195 00:14:01.240 --> 00:14:07.039 to an underworld you're trying to learn more about maybe he's just he's thinking it's 196 00:14:07.080 --> 00:14:13.720 a woman if it was a contact. Sometimes people will underestimate women. A 197 00:14:13.759 --> 00:14:18.320 woman won't shoot me, when in this case it could very well be that 198 00:14:18.519 --> 00:14:24.120 a woman did murder him. So at the outset, there was speculation that 199 00:14:24.200 --> 00:14:28.759 Lester's murder might have been connected with a high profile investigation he had recently been 200 00:14:28.840 --> 00:14:33.519 involved with. Three months earlier, Lester was one of multiple officers assigned to 201 00:14:33.559 --> 00:14:37.799 perform surveillance on a building in the Mission District which was suspected of being a 202 00:14:37.840 --> 00:14:41.200 brothel, as there were rumors that it was the site of a sex trafficking 203 00:14:41.240 --> 00:14:45.720 ring involving underage girls, and some of its patrons were police officers and city 204 00:14:45.759 --> 00:14:48.720 officials. The alleged owner of this brothel was Patrick Roberts, and on at 205 00:14:48.799 --> 00:14:54.600 least two occasions, Lester and his partner, Chuck Lofgren, watched Roberts as 206 00:14:54.600 --> 00:14:58.759 he switched his operation to a different building. Lofgren would later say that he 207 00:14:58.799 --> 00:15:03.320 believed he and Lester had their covers blown before their assignment ended. On April 208 00:15:03.399 --> 00:15:07.720 the thirtieth, the brothel was finally raided and a total of fourteen people were 209 00:15:07.720 --> 00:15:11.799 indicted, six of whom were involved in running the operation, and eight of 210 00:15:11.840 --> 00:15:16.240 whom were patrons. This bus turned into a major story because of two of 211 00:15:16.240 --> 00:15:20.720 the patrons who were arrested, Patrick Miyagishima, as San Francisco police officer and 212 00:15:20.840 --> 00:15:26.279 Roger Boas. A prominent political figure. Boas had been the chairman of the 213 00:15:26.320 --> 00:15:31.840 California Democratic Party and was San Francisco's Chief administrative officer for nine years. After 214 00:15:31.879 --> 00:15:37.159 serving that position under two different mayors, Boas launched a campaign to run for 215 00:15:37.200 --> 00:15:41.000 mayor himself in nineteen eighty seven, though he ultimately lost. However, one 216 00:15:41.000 --> 00:15:46.200 of the teenage sex workers from the brothel recognized Boas from his campaign poster and 217 00:15:46.279 --> 00:15:50.039 said he had been frequenting the brothel for three years under the name George. 218 00:15:50.799 --> 00:15:56.320 Boas was charged with nineteen counts of statutory rape, and in October of nineteen 219 00:15:56.320 --> 00:16:00.600 eighty eight, he agreed to plead guilty to seven of these charges in exchange 220 00:16:00.600 --> 00:16:03.759 for the other twelve being dismissed. He was sensed to six months of community 221 00:16:03.840 --> 00:16:11.519 service and received a one hundred thousand dollars fine. Who privilege, Yeah, 222 00:16:11.879 --> 00:16:17.440 that's really really maddening, you know, Back in the eighties and nineties and 223 00:16:17.480 --> 00:16:21.080 even Honestly, even today, when you're talking about sex work and you look 224 00:16:21.080 --> 00:16:26.679 at the women and men who are being trafficked and doing sex work, a 225 00:16:26.679 --> 00:16:30.159 lot of them are not doing that voluntarily, or they feel desperate, or 226 00:16:30.159 --> 00:16:33.399 they've been convinced that they're you know, they have to do that line of 227 00:16:33.399 --> 00:16:37.519 work. Some voluntarily do it, and that's that's great, but not all 228 00:16:37.519 --> 00:16:41.440 of them are. And so here you're talking about children, which means children 229 00:16:41.519 --> 00:16:48.240 cannot consent to sex with another individual. It's just not in our legal code. 230 00:16:48.240 --> 00:16:53.080 That's just not how it works. So he sexually abuses these underage girls 231 00:16:53.679 --> 00:16:57.360 and he gets charged with seven counts. He says, I'm guilty, and 232 00:16:57.360 --> 00:17:03.360 he does communities. Yep. Not surprised at all that someone who's such a 233 00:17:03.440 --> 00:17:07.000 high profile politician would get off with a slap on the wrist. Oh that 234 00:17:07.039 --> 00:17:10.200 makes me furious. It also makes me think though, that you know, 235 00:17:10.240 --> 00:17:12.559 he gets this call and he's going to meet up with somebody. Is it 236 00:17:12.680 --> 00:17:18.400 possible that officers who were not involved in this sting, but maybe were really 237 00:17:18.400 --> 00:17:22.759 close to Patrick or someone who might have been really close to Roger BoA's, 238 00:17:23.039 --> 00:17:29.119 that they are getting retaliation for this bust. Because remember another officer is going 239 00:17:29.200 --> 00:17:30.519 to say, hey, I think our cover was blown. I think they 240 00:17:30.599 --> 00:17:36.240 knew who we were doing this operation. Well, the weird part about that 241 00:17:36.440 --> 00:17:40.519 is that even though Lester participated in the surveillance, it's not like he was 242 00:17:40.559 --> 00:17:44.279 the person orchestrating this whole bust. Like he didn't really play much of a 243 00:17:44.359 --> 00:17:48.000 role. He just kind of watched over these people, but he didn't actually 244 00:17:48.039 --> 00:17:51.359 personally make the rests. So it just seems kind of weird that they would 245 00:17:51.359 --> 00:17:55.960 decide to murder him in retaliation but not go after anyone else who organized this 246 00:17:56.000 --> 00:17:59.759 whole thing to begin with. Even though Boas got a slap on the wrist, 247 00:17:59.839 --> 00:18:03.480 I will say that he must have been pretty pissed that he had one 248 00:18:03.519 --> 00:18:07.000 hundred thousand dollars fine. That's a pretty hefty fine, especially for the time. 249 00:18:07.480 --> 00:18:12.200 He probably was pretty angry because we really don't know what the motive is 250 00:18:12.240 --> 00:18:17.160 here, So it seems like he would be somebody who you could point a 251 00:18:17.200 --> 00:18:21.240 finger at and go, he's got a reason to be really angry at everybody 252 00:18:21.319 --> 00:18:26.160 involved, And maybe for some reason, somebody just fingered Lester as being somebody 253 00:18:26.160 --> 00:18:30.519 who was responsible in some capacity, and it was just sort of like I 254 00:18:30.599 --> 00:18:37.240 need somebody to stand in to take out my rage upon That is true, 255 00:18:37.240 --> 00:18:41.160 that maybe someone gave him bad information and made it sound like it was Lester's 256 00:18:41.200 --> 00:18:44.599 idea to organize this whole bus to begin with, even though it wasn't true, 257 00:18:44.799 --> 00:18:48.599 and he just wound up feeling Boas's wrath even though he didn't really do 258 00:18:48.680 --> 00:18:53.359 all that much well. There were rumors that several San Francisco police officers had 259 00:18:53.400 --> 00:18:57.960 been patrons of the brothel. Patrick Miyagishima was the only one who wound up 260 00:18:57.960 --> 00:19:03.920 being indicted. He pled guilty to having unlawful sex with a miner and received 261 00:19:03.960 --> 00:19:07.839 a one year suspended sentence, eighteen months probation, one thousand dollars fine, 262 00:19:08.000 --> 00:19:14.599 and was subsequently fired from the police force. Investigators looked into the possible connection 263 00:19:15.079 --> 00:19:19.240 between Miyagashima and Lester Garnier, but the only links they could find were very 264 00:19:19.279 --> 00:19:25.480 tenuous. Lester had been a reserve officer at Broadmoor Village in nineteen eighty, 265 00:19:25.720 --> 00:19:29.960 while Yagashima was working for a security service in Broadmoor at the same time. 266 00:19:30.680 --> 00:19:34.400 There were also rumors that both men had once attended a stag party being held 267 00:19:34.480 --> 00:19:41.079 by a Broadmoor Police officer Yagashima was supposedly accompanied by two sex workers from the 268 00:19:41.119 --> 00:19:45.559 brothel when he attended the party, but nothing could be substantiated. Of course, 269 00:19:45.640 --> 00:19:52.119 police explored the possibility that Leuser's murder may have been retaliation for his involvement 270 00:19:52.240 --> 00:19:56.960 in the sting operation which brought down the sex trafficking ring. The ring leader, 271 00:19:56.000 --> 00:20:00.920 Patrick Roberts, had fled the area before the raid of the took place, 272 00:20:00.480 --> 00:20:06.119 and some people suspected that he'd been tipped off. Roberts wound up being 273 00:20:06.160 --> 00:20:11.079 captured in Oklahoma on July ninth, the very day before Lester was killed, 274 00:20:11.519 --> 00:20:15.799 but in the end, investigators were unable to find any substantial connection between this 275 00:20:15.960 --> 00:20:19.920 case and Lester's murder. All right, guys, not to beat a dead 276 00:20:19.960 --> 00:20:25.839 horse, But if we now pay attention to what the police officer was punished 277 00:20:25.839 --> 00:20:30.839 with for unlawful sex with a minor, he received a one year suspended sentence, 278 00:20:32.079 --> 00:20:36.599 eighteen months probation, and one thousand dollars fine. I still ask this 279 00:20:36.720 --> 00:20:41.759 question in twenty twenty three. Shouldn't people who have the resources and in upbringing 280 00:20:41.799 --> 00:20:47.440 that allows them to be in these positions, they have the access to resources 281 00:20:47.480 --> 00:20:52.039 and obviously financial stability and things like that. Don't we hold them even more 282 00:20:52.160 --> 00:20:56.839 accountable when they're in these positions of power and authority and respect that should be 283 00:20:57.160 --> 00:21:03.400 protecting people, politicians, police officers like I just feel like there should be 284 00:21:03.440 --> 00:21:07.000 even harsher punishments for putting yourself in a position where the community is supposed to 285 00:21:07.039 --> 00:21:15.079 trust you and you abuse children. It makes me very frustrated. Secondly, 286 00:21:15.519 --> 00:21:18.000 when we're talking about this idea, that is it linked directly to especially like 287 00:21:18.160 --> 00:21:22.279 Robert's being arrested the day before, I'm gonna have to say that's too quick 288 00:21:22.559 --> 00:21:27.519 for a murder, for higher plot to be planned in retaliation for an arrest. 289 00:21:27.640 --> 00:21:32.480 Clearly he was on the run and he knew his business had been thwarted 290 00:21:32.559 --> 00:21:37.519 and had been under uncovered. But I just don't think that Roberts would directly 291 00:21:37.000 --> 00:21:41.440 have the ability on the run to say, Hey, just happens that I've 292 00:21:41.519 --> 00:21:45.000 organized this killing for the day after I end up getting arrested. Yeah, 293 00:21:45.039 --> 00:21:49.160 it does seem like a tenuous connection. And even though Lester's cover was supposedly 294 00:21:49.200 --> 00:21:53.799 blown, I'm not sure if Patrick Roberts knew him personally, But Jeffery right 295 00:21:53.799 --> 00:21:57.119 about Miyagi Shima because he was the only one in dieted and you'd like to 296 00:21:57.160 --> 00:22:00.440 think that police would want to make an exam apple out of them and say 297 00:22:00.519 --> 00:22:04.240 this conduct is not acceptable and give him a harsher sentence. But no, 298 00:22:04.640 --> 00:22:07.880 didn't serve any prison time. But at least he was fired from the police 299 00:22:07.920 --> 00:22:11.799 force. Sadly, there are some cases where police officers do these hainous things 300 00:22:12.000 --> 00:22:15.839 and don't even lose their jobs. So at least he did get fired. 301 00:22:15.480 --> 00:22:18.599 Oh for sure. It just imaddens me that people who you know, you 302 00:22:18.640 --> 00:22:22.799 look at offenders who get punished the harshest, and they're often from situations and 303 00:22:22.839 --> 00:22:27.799 backgrounds, not that their actions are acceptable or any better or less accountability should 304 00:22:27.799 --> 00:22:33.440 be there, but you see these incredibly harsh punishments when you have people who 305 00:22:33.240 --> 00:22:37.720 are in these situations where they're raised in crime and that's part of the lifestyle 306 00:22:37.759 --> 00:22:41.480 that they're raised in from child from their childhood. And then you have someone 307 00:22:41.480 --> 00:22:45.000 who's a police officer and a politician, they're like, hey, you're okay, 308 00:22:45.200 --> 00:22:48.000 you're good. We're going to fill the prisons with these people that don't 309 00:22:48.039 --> 00:22:51.440 have resources to ever get better, and we're just gonna make it worse. 310 00:22:52.720 --> 00:22:56.839 However, there were a number of odd things which trouble the Guargnier family following 311 00:22:56.920 --> 00:23:00.400 Lester's death. One of the items taken from his house was a s Aalen's 312 00:23:00.440 --> 00:23:03.640 videotape hidden in his home office. The exact details of what was on that 313 00:23:03.720 --> 00:23:07.799 tape have never been made public, though some sources claim it was recorded during 314 00:23:07.839 --> 00:23:14.279 an undercover stakeout operation from a hotel in Fisherman's Wharf. On previous occasions, 315 00:23:14.480 --> 00:23:18.440 the FBI had used this hotel to perform surveillance on a restaurant which had been 316 00:23:18.440 --> 00:23:22.039 managed by a member of the Gambino crime family. Shortly before his death, 317 00:23:22.319 --> 00:23:26.119 Lester bumped into a friend of his on the street and allegedly told him that 318 00:23:26.160 --> 00:23:30.920 he was quote unquote working on an undercover case that was big and involved well 319 00:23:30.960 --> 00:23:36.599 known people. There was nothing overly suspicious in Lester's background which could shed any 320 00:23:36.720 --> 00:23:40.039 light on why someone would want to murder him, though a check of his 321 00:23:40.119 --> 00:23:44.079 phone records would reveal that he had been in contact with some massage parlors, 322 00:23:44.319 --> 00:23:48.319 which he apparently frequented during his off duty hours. However, Lester's family did 323 00:23:48.319 --> 00:23:52.920 not take this as a sign that he was involved in anything illegal, as 324 00:23:52.960 --> 00:23:56.880 he often pursued leeds during his off duty hours and may have been scouting these 325 00:23:56.920 --> 00:24:02.880 locations for a future undercover of ICE operation unless someone confirmed that he was doing 326 00:24:02.920 --> 00:24:08.359 these visits in a nefarious way. He really was a vice officer who was 327 00:24:08.400 --> 00:24:15.160 specializing in sex work and these sex rings and sex trafficking, and so I 328 00:24:15.200 --> 00:24:19.960 can see him making stops at these massage parlors and trying to see if there's 329 00:24:19.960 --> 00:24:26.440 any kind of indication of danger or illegal business practices happening there. Or maybe 330 00:24:26.480 --> 00:24:32.160 even he had contacts and people who would give him information about bigger fish to 331 00:24:32.240 --> 00:24:36.839 fry in that network, right that maybe there's trade offs when you're doing these 332 00:24:36.920 --> 00:24:41.359 vice operations where you don't take out the low level people, you get information 333 00:24:41.440 --> 00:24:45.799 from low level people, offer them different rights and access to immunity and things 334 00:24:45.880 --> 00:24:49.799 like that, and you use them to help you build cases against bigger people. 335 00:24:49.880 --> 00:24:53.079 So if he was that passionate about his career, I could see him 336 00:24:53.119 --> 00:24:56.359 making stops. It is a little suspicious, but I would need someone to 337 00:24:56.359 --> 00:25:00.240 say, oh, man, yeah, he was invol and some legal behavior. 338 00:25:00.279 --> 00:25:03.839 You should check into this. It could have led to his death before 339 00:25:03.920 --> 00:25:10.000 I assumed he too was involved in and engaged in sexual misconduct while on the 340 00:25:10.039 --> 00:25:12.960 job or as a police officer. That's what I was thinking too, because 341 00:25:14.000 --> 00:25:18.759 we know how charming he was and how he ingratiated himself with the sex workers 342 00:25:18.799 --> 00:25:22.720 that he arrested that they would be going to jail, but they would still 343 00:25:22.759 --> 00:25:26.799 have really great things to say about him. Perhaps he built up a rapport 344 00:25:26.880 --> 00:25:30.599 with certain people at these massage parlors, and like you said, Ash would 345 00:25:30.599 --> 00:25:34.240 go in and he would use them for contacts and get information on the types 346 00:25:34.279 --> 00:25:38.279 of people that were frequenting the massage parlor, because I'm sure that those girls 347 00:25:38.319 --> 00:25:41.519 had a lot of information to share. And I'm with you and that, 348 00:25:41.640 --> 00:25:45.759 Yeah, it does sound suspicious, but I just don't think that we can 349 00:25:45.839 --> 00:25:49.480 make any assumptions because everything we've heard about his character thus far, he sounds 350 00:25:49.480 --> 00:25:52.720 like a really stand up guy. Oh yeah, Like they did a thorough 351 00:25:52.799 --> 00:25:56.799 check into his background following his murder and if he had anything dirty, if 352 00:25:56.839 --> 00:26:03.319 he had any misconduct in his background, police never found it, So I 353 00:26:03.400 --> 00:26:07.079 really don't think that he was going to all of these massage parlors for nefarious 354 00:26:07.079 --> 00:26:12.400 purposes. Investigators explored the angle the corrupt cops may have been responsible for Lester's 355 00:26:12.440 --> 00:26:17.480 death. A bullet casing was found at the scene belonging to a rare, 356 00:26:17.559 --> 00:26:22.440 distinctive AMT three eighty caliber semi automatic pistol, which was sometimes used as a 357 00:26:22.440 --> 00:26:27.160 backup gun by police officers. At least ten officers who owned the same type 358 00:26:27.200 --> 00:26:33.200 of gun were asked to submit their weapons for ballistic tests. They all cooperated 359 00:26:33.240 --> 00:26:37.039 and none of their guns matched the murder weapon. Female police officers who resembled 360 00:26:37.039 --> 00:26:41.079 the blonde woman seen in the parking lot were also investigated, but none of 361 00:26:41.119 --> 00:26:47.079 them stood out as potential suspects. This case would be featured on Unsolved Mysteries 362 00:26:47.160 --> 00:26:51.880 in February of nineteen eighty nine, but failed to generate any substantial leads. 363 00:26:52.720 --> 00:26:56.440 Over the years, the San Francisco PD would express their displeasure with the investigation 364 00:26:56.680 --> 00:27:02.839 by the Walnut Creek Police Department, who jurisdiction on the case and declined numerous 365 00:27:02.839 --> 00:27:07.920 offers for assistance from the sfpds most seasoned homicide detectives. Due to this scandalous 366 00:27:08.000 --> 00:27:14.160 nature of the recent sting operation, the Walnut Creek PD was apparently fearful a 367 00:27:14.160 --> 00:27:19.480 potential corruption within the SFPD and wanted to handle the investigation into Lesser's murder on 368 00:27:19.519 --> 00:27:23.880 their own. That makes sense. I can respect the idea that you say. 369 00:27:23.920 --> 00:27:26.839 Listen, I'm a little anxious. This man is a police officer. 370 00:27:27.079 --> 00:27:32.240 He had just uncovered crimes that police officers were involved in. Were a little 371 00:27:32.279 --> 00:27:37.599 worried there could be some covering up going on if it happens to involve other 372 00:27:37.640 --> 00:27:41.720 officers in the shooting. However, I'm assuming Wanna Creek Police Department is a 373 00:27:41.759 --> 00:27:48.000 pretty small police department. Is that right? It's not really that small, 374 00:27:48.119 --> 00:27:51.400 like it's the city I trying to remember. I think it's between sixty and 375 00:27:51.440 --> 00:27:53.359 seventy thousand at that time. But it also does not have a lot of 376 00:27:53.400 --> 00:27:59.160 experience dealing with violent crime. So what have been logical for them to bring 377 00:27:59.200 --> 00:28:03.440 in more furious homicide detectives to help them with this case. But it just 378 00:28:03.480 --> 00:28:07.559 sounds like they were just very distrustful and did not want the San Francisco PD 379 00:28:07.279 --> 00:28:11.200 interfering with their investigation. So if that's the case, So that's what I'm 380 00:28:11.200 --> 00:28:14.599 thinking too, Robin. But I'm thinking, if that's the case, and 381 00:28:14.680 --> 00:28:18.720 you're able to express, we don't trust you to help us but we may 382 00:28:18.720 --> 00:28:22.519 not be equipped to investigate a crime of this level, or we're kind of 383 00:28:22.519 --> 00:28:26.400 out of our depths here to have the wherewithal to say you, I can't 384 00:28:26.400 --> 00:28:30.599 trust you. But there's plenty of other resources that they likely could have tapped 385 00:28:30.599 --> 00:28:36.680 into when they have a law enforcement officer who was killed and they need assistance. 386 00:28:36.720 --> 00:28:38.920 I feel like they could have reached elsewhere if it was San Francisco Police 387 00:28:38.920 --> 00:28:44.599 Department that they didn't trust. In nineteen ninety eight, shortly before the ten 388 00:28:44.680 --> 00:28:48.920 year anniversary of the crime, the San Francisco Police chief publicly announced that they 389 00:28:48.920 --> 00:28:52.799 were reopening the case. In November of that year, there was an odd 390 00:28:52.839 --> 00:28:56.720 development when a police inspector named Vincent Rippetto filed a civil suit against one of 391 00:28:56.759 --> 00:29:02.759 his fellow officers, Robert Gueenan. Queenon had assisted in an internal affairs probe 392 00:29:02.759 --> 00:29:07.359 against Repetto and found witnesses who testified that Repetto had illegally bet on sporting events. 393 00:29:08.240 --> 00:29:12.480 Ripetto eventually pled no contest to these charges and received a suspension and a 394 00:29:12.519 --> 00:29:18.920 transfer, but claimed that in order to convince witnesses to Testifyqueenon had told them 395 00:29:18.920 --> 00:29:22.640 that Repetto was responsible for the murder of Lester Garnier. Ripetto had been working 396 00:29:22.640 --> 00:29:26.720 in the same vice unit as Lester at the time of his death, but 397 00:29:26.839 --> 00:29:30.519 Repetto denied any involvement in the crime, and his lawsuit alleged that he was 398 00:29:30.559 --> 00:29:36.160 a victim of defamation and slander. Queenan maintained that Repetto's claims were false and 399 00:29:36.200 --> 00:29:40.960 that he never actually made this accusation against him. The lawsuit was eventually dropped, 400 00:29:41.119 --> 00:29:45.400 but the official position from the police department was that Repetto was never considered 401 00:29:45.440 --> 00:29:48.440 a suspect in Lester's murder. So let me clarify what you were saying, 402 00:29:48.519 --> 00:29:53.079 Robin. You're saying that when he's being charged with these other possibly illegal sports 403 00:29:53.079 --> 00:29:57.759 betting and things like that. He then turns a lawsuit against one of the 404 00:29:57.759 --> 00:30:02.960 internal affairs officers, saying you're defaming me by saying I had something to do 405 00:30:03.000 --> 00:30:07.759 with Lester's murder. Or did the officer actually come forward and say he had 406 00:30:07.799 --> 00:30:12.319 something to do with Lester's murder. It's not really clear to me and stuff, 407 00:30:12.319 --> 00:30:18.680 because I don't know if Gweenan had any information or evidence that Repetta was 408 00:30:18.799 --> 00:30:22.440 actually involved in Lester's murder. It could have been just kind of a petty 409 00:30:22.519 --> 00:30:25.640 thing or something like that, or maybe it's like, well, he's doing 410 00:30:25.640 --> 00:30:29.519 these other crimes now, maybe I'll just try to pin this unsolved murder on 411 00:30:29.559 --> 00:30:33.359 them. But like I said, the police never found any evidence that Repetto 412 00:30:33.480 --> 00:30:38.160 was involved, so I don't know where this information came from. The investigation 413 00:30:38.400 --> 00:30:44.440 continued to remain at a standstill until a surprising announcement was made in June of 414 00:30:44.519 --> 00:30:48.839 two thousand and eight. An unidentified partial fingerprint which did not belong to Lester 415 00:30:49.319 --> 00:30:53.799 had been found on top of the Corvette's passenger side window, but it initially 416 00:30:53.799 --> 00:30:59.319 could not be matched to anyone. However, after two decades, it was 417 00:30:59.359 --> 00:31:03.319 officially an announced that the print belonged to Catherine Kons, a forty four year 418 00:31:03.319 --> 00:31:07.680 old Scottish and national who'd been living in the United States since nineteen eighty five. 419 00:31:08.240 --> 00:31:11.640 The match had originally been made in two thousand and two, when the 420 00:31:11.640 --> 00:31:17.240 print was sent to the FBI for analysis, and investiators would spend the next 421 00:31:17.279 --> 00:31:22.559 six years exploring Kons's background and attempting to build a case against her. By 422 00:31:22.599 --> 00:31:26.160 the time this announcement was made, Kons was serving a one year sentence at 423 00:31:26.160 --> 00:31:30.720 a prison in Ocala, Florida, for violating her probation on a previous cocaine 424 00:31:30.799 --> 00:31:36.160 conviction. She had been living in Concord, California at the time of Lester's 425 00:31:36.200 --> 00:31:40.960 murder, and originally moved to the US after becoming involved with Gregory Koons, 426 00:31:41.400 --> 00:31:45.680 a U. S. Navy officer who was stationed in Scotland. When Greg 427 00:31:45.759 --> 00:31:49.240 was reassigned to the Concord Naval Weapons Station, he took Catherine along with him 428 00:31:49.279 --> 00:31:55.720 and they subsequently got married, allowing Catherine to obtain a green card. However, 429 00:31:55.839 --> 00:32:00.200 because Greg was often shipped out to sea for extended periods of time after 430 00:32:00.240 --> 00:32:04.079 and would spend a lot of time alone, and she eventually became embroiled in 431 00:32:04.160 --> 00:32:07.640 drugs and turned to sex work to support a crack cocaine habit Where there was 432 00:32:07.680 --> 00:32:13.319 no record of Catherine ever having been arrested in California, her marriage did go 433 00:32:13.440 --> 00:32:17.960 through several rocky patches, including a bankruptcy, until Greg was reassigned to Norfolk, 434 00:32:19.039 --> 00:32:22.720 Virginia and the couple moved there in nineteen ninety. Do we have any 435 00:32:22.799 --> 00:32:28.640 idea which direction Lester was shot from? Was it through his passenger side or 436 00:32:28.720 --> 00:32:32.240 was it from the driver's side or front of the car. Good question. 437 00:32:32.319 --> 00:32:36.359 I don't think that they've ever released that information. Let me just go back 438 00:32:36.359 --> 00:32:40.119 and double check. No, I just said he was shot at close range, 439 00:32:40.640 --> 00:32:43.759 just once in the head and once in the abdomen, but they didn't 440 00:32:43.799 --> 00:32:46.480 say where the shots came from. Well, what's interesting is, I mean, 441 00:32:46.799 --> 00:32:51.799 as convincing as it is that there's this miscellaneous fingerprint and then it's linked 442 00:32:51.839 --> 00:32:57.160 to this criminal life career criminal that's a foreign national. It's super sexy and 443 00:32:57.200 --> 00:33:01.279 spyworthy. But if you think about him being a vice officer and her being 444 00:33:01.319 --> 00:33:06.880 involved in illegal activity, doesn't it make sense that there's a potential he pulled 445 00:33:06.960 --> 00:33:08.720 up, rolled down a window, and at one point or another she leaned 446 00:33:08.720 --> 00:33:13.240 against his car and gave him information. I mean, there's other ways that 447 00:33:13.279 --> 00:33:15.920 her fingerprint could have been placed on top of that car without her being there 448 00:33:16.480 --> 00:33:21.319 that evening. Well, yeah, I could I could believe that that maybe 449 00:33:21.359 --> 00:33:23.319 it was left there on a previous occasion. But we also have the witness 450 00:33:23.359 --> 00:33:28.880 who saw someone matching Koontz's description, a blonde woman in her twenties, so 451 00:33:29.160 --> 00:33:31.480 which does seem like a coincidence. So I do think there is a good 452 00:33:31.559 --> 00:33:36.279 chance that Koontz was seen and was in the parking lot that night. But 453 00:33:36.359 --> 00:33:38.799 of course, because we had the witness who saw two blonde women, it 454 00:33:39.279 --> 00:33:44.119 adds a lot of complications to the case because who was this other woman that 455 00:33:44.200 --> 00:33:46.359 Konts would have been with, Like, we don't know anything about her known 456 00:33:46.359 --> 00:33:52.200 associates while she was living in California in nineteen eighty eight. Didn't the one 457 00:33:52.240 --> 00:33:55.720 man who is the carpet layer, didn't he create a composite under hypnosis and 458 00:33:55.799 --> 00:34:00.559 see the two women? Did he recognize koons or was he ever shown her 459 00:34:00.559 --> 00:34:06.200 picture in two thousand and two. I know it's crazy, many many years 460 00:34:06.599 --> 00:34:09.079 past the crime, and his recollection may not be able to register that, 461 00:34:09.159 --> 00:34:14.440 but it would be worth showing him a picture of her. Yeah, I 462 00:34:14.440 --> 00:34:16.079 haven't heard anything about him being shown a picture. I mean, it could 463 00:34:16.119 --> 00:34:20.840 be because maybe he's dead, or maybe they just were unable to track him 464 00:34:20.880 --> 00:34:23.559 down twenty years after the fact. You look at the picture and you can 465 00:34:23.719 --> 00:34:28.199 kind of see the resemblance. But he has never been asked. As far 466 00:34:28.280 --> 00:34:31.119 as I know, none of these witnesses have ever been asked to positively identify 467 00:34:31.199 --> 00:34:36.920 any of the woman. And if any of them were kons. Now this 468 00:34:37.000 --> 00:34:40.239 is where the story gets even crazier. The reason Catherine's fingerprints were in the 469 00:34:40.320 --> 00:34:45.519 FBI database was because she wound up being arrested for her role in a murder 470 00:34:45.519 --> 00:34:49.639 for higher plot. In nineteen ninety one, she was charged with conspiracy to 471 00:34:49.639 --> 00:34:54.280 commit murder after allegedly hiring two people, John Murchison and Melinda Cooper, to 472 00:34:54.360 --> 00:34:59.639 kill her husband. After moving to Norfolk, Catherine had taken a job that 473 00:34:59.679 --> 00:35:01.440 it can be ui in store, and John Murchison was one of her co 474 00:35:01.559 --> 00:35:07.519 workers. According to Murchison, Catherine wanted to divorce Greg, but feared she 475 00:35:07.519 --> 00:35:10.840 would lose her green card status. However, since Greg had a fifteen thousand 476 00:35:10.800 --> 00:35:16.239 dollars life insurance policy, Catherine decided to murder him instead, and enlisted Murchison's 477 00:35:16.239 --> 00:35:21.719 help with finding someone to do it. They wound up recruiting Melinda Cooper, 478 00:35:22.000 --> 00:35:25.559 a seventeen year old runaway whom Catherine had befriended, but their attempts at murdering 479 00:35:25.599 --> 00:35:30.920 Greg proved unsuccessful. While Cooper and Murchison were both found guilty and sent to 480 00:35:30.960 --> 00:35:36.320 prison, Catherine wound up being acquitted when she went on trial. Believe it 481 00:35:36.440 --> 00:35:39.440 or not. One of the main reasons the jury voted not guilty was because 482 00:35:39.480 --> 00:35:45.039 Greg had testified on Catherine's behalf. Greg expressed his belief that Catherine's two alleged 483 00:35:45.039 --> 00:35:50.119 accomplices were lying about her involvement, and he felt there was no way she 484 00:35:50.199 --> 00:35:53.559 attempted to murder him. After the trial, Catherine and Greg remained together and 485 00:35:53.559 --> 00:35:58.320 moved to Florida, but the marriage didn't last much longer and they divorced in 486 00:35:58.440 --> 00:36:02.199 nineteen eighty two. Catherine went through an additional marriage and divorced with another man, 487 00:36:02.519 --> 00:36:07.039 and continued to run into trouble with the law, including two arrests for 488 00:36:07.119 --> 00:36:10.199 sex work and an arrest for cocaine possession in two thousand and six, for 489 00:36:10.320 --> 00:36:15.119 which she received a sense of probation and community service, but after failing a 490 00:36:15.159 --> 00:36:20.159 drug test and failing to complete her community service, Kootz was given a one 491 00:36:20.199 --> 00:36:23.920 year prison sentence for violating her probation. When Kootz was released from prison, 492 00:36:24.239 --> 00:36:30.079 she was immediately picked up by the Immigration and Customs Enforcement Agency and to poured 493 00:36:30.119 --> 00:36:36.360 it back to Scotland. Because of her conviction, poor Greg Greg truly believed 494 00:36:36.360 --> 00:36:42.000 that Catherine wasn't involved. That's sweet and then they hadn't got divorced anyway. 495 00:36:42.639 --> 00:36:45.280 I'm sure those were some fun arguments behind closed doors. She didn't kill them, 496 00:36:45.800 --> 00:36:47.960 yeah right, I mean, at least it didn't work for sure, 497 00:36:49.320 --> 00:36:52.360 and she definitely had nothing to do with it. Poor guy. It is 498 00:36:52.400 --> 00:36:58.320 interesting, though, I mean, she has a troubled past and she's integrated 499 00:36:58.320 --> 00:37:00.480 here. It seems like she's able to easily be friend people, easily get 500 00:37:00.519 --> 00:37:07.039 people to do what she wants, to manipulate them, to convince them to 501 00:37:07.079 --> 00:37:12.519 be her partner in either crime or life, and so it doesn't seem like 502 00:37:12.559 --> 00:37:16.679 she really struggles to have any kind of relationship connections. Do we know when 503 00:37:16.760 --> 00:37:22.639 she was possibly seen in that parking lot and there's another blonde present, did 504 00:37:22.679 --> 00:37:25.159 she have known associates at the time that can be linked back to that or 505 00:37:25.320 --> 00:37:30.639 was it almost impossible to link Koon's and her whereabouts directly to California at the 506 00:37:30.679 --> 00:37:36.039 time. We really don't know all that much because it sounds like Greg because 507 00:37:36.039 --> 00:37:37.199 he was in the Navy, he was out to see a lot, so 508 00:37:37.320 --> 00:37:40.440 Catherine had a lot of time alone, so she would that's I think when 509 00:37:40.480 --> 00:37:45.960 she developed her cocaine habit, her crack cocaine habit, but I don't believe 510 00:37:45.000 --> 00:37:50.119 she was ever arrested in California, so we really don't have any information about 511 00:37:50.159 --> 00:37:53.639 the kind of people she was associating with at that time. But talking about 512 00:37:53.639 --> 00:37:58.880 how she allegedly recruited this seventeen year old Belinda Cooper to kill her husband, 513 00:37:59.239 --> 00:38:02.199 for all we know, have been a similar situation with this other blonde woman 514 00:38:02.199 --> 00:38:06.639 in the parking lot, where perhaps she got this person to help her kill 515 00:38:06.679 --> 00:38:10.800 Lester. I find it really interesting that. Okay, so he doesn't believe 516 00:38:10.840 --> 00:38:15.519 that she was involved in the murder for higher plot, but he does know 517 00:38:15.760 --> 00:38:19.880 that while they were married. I'm assuming he knows. Maybe he doesn't correct 518 00:38:19.920 --> 00:38:25.119 me if I'm wrong that she had an active crack cocaine habit and was engaged 519 00:38:25.119 --> 00:38:30.440 in sex work. But yet somehow thinks it's impossible that she could have done 520 00:38:30.480 --> 00:38:35.159 that. I mean, if she has a substance use disorder, what she 521 00:38:35.199 --> 00:38:39.440 would have done at the time during her active addiction isn't necessarily representative of who 522 00:38:39.480 --> 00:38:43.880 she is, But since we have a little more information on her, it 523 00:38:44.280 --> 00:38:47.320 just might be who she is. It sounds like she could potentially be a 524 00:38:47.360 --> 00:38:53.599 pretty manipulative person. Whether she's under the influence of drugs, alcohol or not. 525 00:38:54.519 --> 00:38:57.719 But yeah, It's like, even if I really love my spouse, 526 00:38:57.760 --> 00:39:00.400 if she was being put on trial for hiring people to kill me, I 527 00:39:00.400 --> 00:39:01.679 would just kind of err on the side of caution. I would just be 528 00:39:01.800 --> 00:39:06.679 way too paranoid to testify in her behalf and get back together with her. 529 00:39:07.519 --> 00:39:09.639 You'd have to really trust the person to think that, Okay, they're going 530 00:39:09.639 --> 00:39:15.880 to invest this time and energy and all of this money into prosecuting your spouse 531 00:39:16.320 --> 00:39:21.239 and you're still going to believe that they're being falsely accused. I think you 532 00:39:21.679 --> 00:39:23.320 Yeah, like you said, err on the side of caution and go m 533 00:39:24.239 --> 00:39:30.480 maybe they might have done it well. Even though Kontz's fingerprint had been found 534 00:39:30.480 --> 00:39:35.719 at Lester Garnier's murder scene and she bore a resemblance to one of the blonde 535 00:39:35.719 --> 00:39:39.320 women seen in the parking lot that night, the authorities believed there was insufficient 536 00:39:39.400 --> 00:39:45.599 evidence to charge Kon's with the crime. On three separate occasions, contracst to, 537 00:39:45.719 --> 00:39:51.960 county prosecutors declined investigator's requests to file charges against Koons because even though the 538 00:39:52.000 --> 00:39:54.960 print placed her at the scene, there was no evidence to prove she actually 539 00:39:54.960 --> 00:39:59.760 pulled the trigger and shot Lester, and, like Ashley said, does it 540 00:39:59.800 --> 00:40:02.559 a actually placed you at the scene because it could have been there from days 541 00:40:02.639 --> 00:40:07.480 earlier. In addition, the eyewitness sightings of multiple blonde women in the mall 542 00:40:07.519 --> 00:40:13.360 parking lot led to speculation that one or two other people were involved in the 543 00:40:13.400 --> 00:40:17.880 crime. This is what prompted investigators to publicly announce the fingerprint match to Catherine 544 00:40:17.920 --> 00:40:22.000 Koon's in two thousand and eight and offer a two hundred and fifty thousand dollars 545 00:40:22.000 --> 00:40:27.639 reward, as they hoped this might compel someone to come forward with new information. 546 00:40:28.280 --> 00:40:32.880 Following Kuntz's deportation, Lester's sister, Margot Garnier, said that she planned 547 00:40:32.880 --> 00:40:37.000 to travel to Scotland to confront Koontz about her brother's murder, but I'm not 548 00:40:37.039 --> 00:40:42.519 sure if this ever came to fruition and sadly, both of Lester's parents have 549 00:40:42.599 --> 00:40:49.480 since passed away. While no tangible connection has been found between Lester and Coons, 550 00:40:49.599 --> 00:40:52.800 Margot has stated that her family were regular customers at a restaurant in Concord 551 00:40:53.159 --> 00:40:58.440 where Coons briefly worked as a waitress, so it's possible that their past might 552 00:40:58.480 --> 00:41:01.079 have crossed there. In two thousand and nine, Coons was found to be 553 00:41:01.119 --> 00:41:06.519 living at a hostel in Manchester, England, under her maiden name Overend. 554 00:41:07.239 --> 00:41:12.079 She denied having any involvement in Lester's murder, and her current whereboats are unknown. 555 00:41:12.920 --> 00:41:16.800 Thus far, police have been unable to obtain additional evidence to implicate Coons, 556 00:41:17.239 --> 00:41:21.920 but they still consider her to be the prime suspect. However, there 557 00:41:21.960 --> 00:41:25.440 are still a number of puzzling questions. Who was the second blonde woman seen 558 00:41:27.119 --> 00:41:30.840 seen in the shopping center parking lot on the night of the murder. Why 559 00:41:30.880 --> 00:41:34.320 did Lester counsel a meet up with his best friend in order to travel there. 560 00:41:35.079 --> 00:41:39.119 If Catherine Coons was the killer, what was her motive? Unfortunately, 561 00:41:39.239 --> 00:41:45.519 after more than thirty five years, these questions continue to remain unanswered, and 562 00:41:45.599 --> 00:41:50.360 the murder of Lester Garnier is still unsolved. So I guess she could say 563 00:41:50.599 --> 00:41:54.239 the path went chili. Okay, so I should know this. But is 564 00:41:54.320 --> 00:42:01.440 there a database of ballistics or shellcase scenes or bullet striations that they collect from 565 00:42:01.480 --> 00:42:07.079 evidence? And they compile those because if there is, that gun likely traveled 566 00:42:07.159 --> 00:42:10.599 between other criminals, not that you would be able to link it back to 567 00:42:10.840 --> 00:42:15.760 the criminal who fired it that evening, but you might be able to connect 568 00:42:15.800 --> 00:42:17.840 it back to a network of criminals who would be willing to say it wasn't 569 00:42:17.880 --> 00:42:21.199 me, I got it from this person. Wasn't me, I got it 570 00:42:21.199 --> 00:42:22.920 from this person. I took it from this house, right, And it 571 00:42:22.960 --> 00:42:28.960 could be the gun could be traced back even years later. I honestly don't 572 00:42:28.960 --> 00:42:30.960 know. I haven't heard of such a thing, but I'm guessing there isn't 573 00:42:31.079 --> 00:42:35.039 because I think a lot more murders would be solved that they were just able 574 00:42:35.079 --> 00:42:39.239 to enter ballistics information or shell casing's information into a database and match them up. 575 00:42:39.880 --> 00:42:44.440 Okay, well, then one of our very tech savvy teens or young 576 00:42:44.519 --> 00:42:52.159 adults listening right now needs to get on that as a crime changing new technology, 577 00:42:52.280 --> 00:42:57.400 please. And it depends on the type of criminal too, how sophisticated 578 00:42:57.440 --> 00:43:00.800 they are with forendsic countermeasures, if they know anything about ballistics, and if 579 00:43:00.800 --> 00:43:06.440 they have the funds available to be able to invest in multiple weapons. If 580 00:43:06.480 --> 00:43:08.360 you were planning on doing a murder, I would think you would use a 581 00:43:08.400 --> 00:43:12.519 clean gun, a gun that's never been used in the commission of any other 582 00:43:12.599 --> 00:43:16.719 crime, and once you completed that or you've committed that murder that you would 583 00:43:16.760 --> 00:43:21.000 then dispose of that gun, so you may not be able to link that 584 00:43:21.079 --> 00:43:24.440 gun to anything else because they may have bought it for the express purpose of 585 00:43:24.519 --> 00:43:29.880 murdering Lester Garnier. Okay, guess what, guys, there's already something there. 586 00:43:30.079 --> 00:43:32.440 It just doesn't get used all the time. Like all the national databases, 587 00:43:32.519 --> 00:43:37.119 right, it relies on reporting, and and you're going to see an 588 00:43:37.119 --> 00:43:40.280 over reporting by certain types of law enforcement agencies based on size and resources and 589 00:43:40.320 --> 00:43:46.639 not others. But there is a national let's see, it's called the NIST 590 00:43:47.320 --> 00:43:53.400 Ballistics tool Mark Research Database that is managed by the United States Department of Justice, 591 00:43:53.440 --> 00:43:58.199 but it says that not all departments report to it, so it doesn't 592 00:43:58.239 --> 00:44:01.519 create a holistic law look at records. I can see how it could be 593 00:44:01.639 --> 00:44:06.440 unreliable because you remember our minisode we did last month about the murder of Morris 594 00:44:06.519 --> 00:44:09.599 Davis and how an innocent man was falsely accused that his gun was used in 595 00:44:09.639 --> 00:44:14.320 the murder because they botched the ballistic tests. So, yes, that's what 596 00:44:14.440 --> 00:44:16.880 I think could happen. Oh my goodness, it's crazy. Yeah, it's 597 00:44:16.920 --> 00:44:21.000 all based on you know, you have to have human analysis and things in 598 00:44:21.000 --> 00:44:24.280 addition to the technology. But man, if there was a requirement to report 599 00:44:24.320 --> 00:44:30.199 all that and we did have all the networked law enforcement agencies sharing all information, 600 00:44:30.679 --> 00:44:32.920 you really would see criminals having a pretty difficult time getting away with what 601 00:44:32.960 --> 00:44:37.039 they do. So I think this would be a good time to bring an 602 00:44:37.119 --> 00:44:39.159 end to part one. But join us next week as we present part two 603 00:44:39.199 --> 00:44:44.639 of our series with the murder of Lester Garnier. Robin, do you want 604 00:44:44.639 --> 00:44:46.639 to tell us a little bit about the Trail Went Cold Patreon? Uh? 605 00:44:46.719 --> 00:44:50.840 Yes, The Trail Cold Patreon has been around for three years now, and 606 00:44:50.880 --> 00:44:55.039 we offer these standard bonus features like early ad free episodes, and I also 607 00:44:55.119 --> 00:45:00.519 send out stickers and signed thank you cards to anyone who signed up with us 608 00:45:00.559 --> 00:45:04.920 on Patreon. If you join our five dollars tier Tier two, we also 609 00:45:05.000 --> 00:45:09.119 offer monthly bonus episodes in which I talk about cases which are not featured on 610 00:45:09.159 --> 00:45:14.039 the Trail Went Cold's original feed, so they're exclusive to Patreon, and if 611 00:45:14.079 --> 00:45:16.920 you join our highest tier tier three, the ten dollars tier. One of 612 00:45:16.960 --> 00:45:22.599 the features we offer is a audio commentary track over classic episodes of unsolved mysteries, 613 00:45:22.880 --> 00:45:27.960 where you can download an audio file and then boot up the original Unsolved 614 00:45:28.000 --> 00:45:32.440 Mysteries episode on Amazon Prime or YouTube and play it with my audio commentary playing 615 00:45:32.480 --> 00:45:37.719 in the background, where I just provide trivia and factoids about the cases featured 616 00:45:37.760 --> 00:45:40.519 in this episode. And incidentally, the very first episode that I did a 617 00:45:40.519 --> 00:45:45.800 commentary track over was the episode featuring this case. So if you want to 618 00:45:45.840 --> 00:45:50.239 download a commentary track in which I make more smart ass remarks about Jewel Kaylor, 619 00:45:50.519 --> 00:45:52.440 then be sure to join Tier three. So I want to let you 620 00:45:52.480 --> 00:45:57.119 know a little bit about the Jeweles and Nashty Patreon, so there's early ad 621 00:45:57.119 --> 00:46:00.239 free episodes of The Path Went Chilly. We've got our Pathwent Chili minis, 622 00:46:00.280 --> 00:46:04.440 which are always over an hour, so they're not very mini, but they're 623 00:46:04.480 --> 00:46:07.159 just too short to turn into a series, and we're really enjoying doing those, 624 00:46:07.239 --> 00:46:10.199 so we hope you'll check out those patreons. We'll link them in the 625 00:46:10.239 --> 00:46:14.599 show notes. So I want to thank you all for listening, and any 626 00:46:14.679 --> 00:46:17.159 chance you have to share us on social media with a friend or to rate 627 00:46:17.159 --> 00:46:21.960 and review is greatly appreciate it. You can email us at The Pathwentchili at 628 00:46:21.960 --> 00:46:25.320 gmail dot com. You can reach us on Twitter at the pathwin So until 629 00:46:25.360 --> 00:46:30.239 next time, be sure to bundle up because cold trails and chili pass call 630 00:46:30.320 --> 00:46:34.480 for warm clothing. Music by Paul Rich from the podcast Cold Callers Comedy