In a contentious move denounced by Catholic leaders and local officials alike, Texas Attorney
General Ken Paxson's attempt to shut down a Catholic nonprofit aiding migrants and asylum seekers
has been labeled an abuse of power and affront to religious freedom. Annunciation House,
based in El Paso, Texas, was targeted in Packson's lawsuit and is
accused of facilitating illegal entry in human smuggling. However, Bishop Mark Sites and
others swiftly rallied to defend the organization's mission, emphasizing its long standing commitment to
providing basic resources to those in need. Paxson's actions have ignited a fierce debate,
highlighting broader concerns about the treatment of migrants and the role of faith based
organizations and addressing humanitarian crisis. This story is from National Catholic Reporter by Kate
Scanlon on February twenty six, twenty twenty four. I've got to say I
have a few things to say, finding this a little bit of a unique
story. But I was wondering, Kelly, what did you think about this?
I you know, this is something I've been talking about that I had
a feeling was going to be happening at some point in the future. I've
been thinking this is going to happen all along. Christians, especially Christian nationalists,
have this idea that all everybody everybody else thinks the same way they do.
It doesn't matter what sect they belong to. And so here we see
that that isn't so. And one of the things that kind of delights me
about this is that it's coming from American Catholics, probably the most conservative far
right Catholics in the world. There are no other Catholics of far right as
American Catholics. Now I realize that no person who's on the political right isn't
going to help these refugees. They don't care about these asylum seekers. That
the Annunciation House is actually stepping up to help. But I was surprised that
they win after a religious organization until I realized, oh yeah, these are
Catholics, a lot of Evangelicals whose vote Paxton will need to fulfill his ambitions
of being governor in the few future. They don't think Catholics are Christians anyway,
so this isn't going to hurt him with his base, so he can
go after the Catholics all he want, But would he be going after them
if they were a Protestant group. I don't know if they would right.
The World Church Group represents seventeen Protestant churches and they have helped over eight hundred
and fifty thousand people on the southern border. The Lutheran Church has been active
and has reportedly helped over three hundred and seventy five thousand people at the southern
border. Paxton knows this, and he knows that he went after these group
his base would drop him in his instant, So he's decided to single out
the Catholics and go after them. Richard, Well, all I can say,
unfortunately about mister Paxton and that government is, you know, again we
see the lack of compassion and care for the quote other humans continually demonstrated by
the executive branch of the Texas government. You know, Pakistan treats as a
crime the act of getting food, clean water, shelter and first aid to
people who have nothing nothing. These people come up here, you know,
if their shoes aren't worn out, they got a T shirt, a pair
of shorts or got to be careful with the shorts or you know, pants
and maybe a coat and a backpack and a little bit of something. But
they're all dirt poor. That's why they're coming to get away from a place
they were and they're being treated like, you know, they're not human.
And you know, it's really funny when you think about Paxton. Wasn't he
just impeached by his legislature and only because of the partisanship he didn't get kicked
out because he's been being investigated by the FBI I think for the last what
five or six years for some various and sundry potential crimes. So you know,
he's got a high horse to sit on it and talk about other people
should be you know, dealt with by law authorities for feeding and clothing and
helping some poor people who have nothing. I just I don't know it,
just you know, I don't understand where these people come from that, you
know, Abbott and Paxton. I mean, they're just two people I would
never want to be around because they just seem to be uncaring about their fellow
human beings. So what do you think, Scott? I think you hit
it right on the head there. I think you know, first of all,
we got people here right there's people that are wanting to come to America
because they want to build a better life. They want opportunity, they want
safety, they want security for their families. They feel threatened where they are.
Uh and you know, and there's some parts of America that want to
say no, they want to close down those borders and say no, you
know, this is you need to stop there. This is us, that's
you. And and so here we have a group, it's a religious group
that are saying, well, no, we want to we need to take
care of the people first. And you know, I got to give them
props for that. You know. That's well, I'm not entirely sure of
their motivations. But the actions that they're doing are showing passion, our showing
sympathy, our offering aid, are helping people and they're improving people's lives as
a result of it. That's so that's a good thing too. However,
having said that and being you know, fairly cynical person, so maybe this
is my cynicism showing through. I'm a little suspicious on the motive, on
the actual motivation there on what you know, if you listen to what they're
saying, it's not the Bishop Marks Sets of El Paso said this, we
will not be intimidated in our work to serve Jesus Christ and our sisters and
brothers fleeing danger and seeking to keep their families together. And so yes,
he did mention the families there. He did mention that people were needing help
and they were offering help, but only after only in the context of serving
Jesus. And you know that has to be the front. So it's hard
for me not to imagine that he's using this as a preachable moment, right
he says, Oh, this is an opportunity for me to preach from the
pulpit to anywhere, any opportunity to to say the name Jesus. You know,
that's a wonderful opportunity. And so you know, it's hard for me
to say, is are they using this, this uh this topic as a
just a pond to to use to praise Jesus. What I would like to
see is setting that part of it aside, okay, and then just helping
people out. I understand that, you know, I'm a little bit torn
here. I do. Of course, I'm motivated by sympathy and compassion for
for people that are in need, and so uh so I applaud that aspect
of this story. However, we do need to balance that and we and
the you know, the age here he's he's trying to enforce the law,
and really that's his job, and so if there's problems with the laws,
then yes, we need to change those laws to reflect what many people think
is the true nature or the true spirit of being an American. Right,
it's a it's a land of opportunity, and we help our fellow man,
and we we you know, we want to make a better world for everybody
at least, that's you know, that's the slogan, right. I would
love to see pushing in that direction. If you want to change the laws,
sometimes that you do have to cross the line. And we've seen that
in history many times, and so maybe that's their approach. I don't know.
I don't know, Infidel, what do you think about that? I
have to admit that I really enjoy piling up on the Catholic Church at any
given opportunity, And like you, I do suspect their motivations because at the
end of the day, Jesus this, Jesus that. Oh, and by
the way, we believe we're going to help some people but my distaste and
their Jesus pushing Jesus down people's throat doesn't change the fact that they are down
there providing something that is a very real need for people that are crossing the
border. Like Richard mentioned, you know, these aren't people that are coming
over because they you know, they wanted to check out the people's shorts and
the pigeon Ford's parking lot there. Because there's real desperation in their lives.
They're looking to escape, literally oftentimes in fear of their life. So when
these people come here, leaving everything behind, what little they may have had
in the first place, to come here, I've got to say thank you
to the Catholics who are out there, not the bishop, but the ones
that are out there actually doing the work, the ones that are out there
helping these people. I have to give respect to them for doing that.
Now, like Kelly said, though, this infighting is inevitable because what's a
true Christian, Well, it depends on who you ask, because there's thousands
of denominations for a reason, and it changes among Christians themselves. Among Christians
individually, it changes, and it's not consistent. Now, Paxton, he's
on a rampage. He's trying to clan. He's having a purity of not
only means to be a Christian, it seems, but also inside he's fighting
his own party right here inside the state because he's having a grudge match because
once again, like Richard mentioned, he almost got it. He was impeached,
but it failed in the House, and he's making sure that everyone who
cross his path is paying the price. And I think that there is a
very real level of what Kelly was talking about about, Well, they're not
real Christians, and the people who support me are not going to lose any
sleep. I might gain a few points with them, and that's what's going
on. Once again, it's a matter of people playing for their base rather
than working for real solutions. Because there is an immigration concern, but we
should always be aware we need immigrants in this country just because we have an
ass backward system that makes what we need more difficult. It is not the
person who's trying to come here's fault. They're coming here because at the end
of the day, we're appealing to them because we need them. Admittedly,
one thing though, is my money is on the Catholic Church. On this
deep pockets and if there's anything about the Catholic Church, we know they play
the long game. They've been around a long time, and they'll be around
long after Paxton and I think that this is just another show, another game
for his base, and then they'll move right along and everybody will forget about
it. But what'll I know? I can't stand the Catholic Church. So
Kelly, what about you? I wanted to dress a whole bunch of things.
You guys have said we need the immigrants because the immigrants keep the American
dreamlive while Americans are killing it and replacing it with the lotto. So these
are people who are coming here to work to build the future for themselves,
while many people who are here feel that that future they are entitled to.
They don't have to work for it. My parents earned it and I get
to have it right. So that's one of the things that I really think
is really good about bringing immigrants into this country, that we are actually bringing
back this idea of working to make your world better instead of just letting it
fall apart and expecting it all to work around you Sky, you mentioned it.
We have to change the laws. We just tried to do that.
They wouldn't do it, and I think we all know what caused that that
happens. So as long as certain people who are involved in politics, I'm
not sure that we're going to get that going. And I think one of
the GOP has lost this as a wedge or has lost abortion as a wedge
issue. I mean, they used that for thirty years as a wedge issue.
They don't have that anymore, and they need a new wedge issue,
and this is it. This is that wedge issue. So we know you
were talking about appealing to their voters, and yeah, this is exactly why.
This is exactly why Paxson is doing it. And it goes back to
what I was saying before why he chose the Catholics because his base, these
people who think he's doing the right thing, don't care about Catholics anyway.
And I'm not so sure that that the their motives are nefarious the Catholic Church.
I mean a lot of the Tea I think, I don't think it's
overstepping to say that most Latinos are Catholics anyway, So they're out there protecting
their own really, when they think about it, it's the Protestant organizations.
I mentioned that might be out there with Nefarius ideals trying to convert these Catholics
over to their church. But one of the things I wonder about, and
Richard, I hope you can help me with this with your legal background,
isn't actually legal for the state to go after the Catholic Church for doing this?
Isn't this freedom of religion? Well, I don't think it's from what
I read, I don't think that's what it is. I think it's the
fact that they are claiming that these people are here illegally so that they're not
supposed to be given any aid. But I think the whole notion that we've
had, you know, for years, of sanctuary and so forth, these
people are hanging out in the church, you know, they should be left
alone, first of all, if they're there being taken care of and getting
food and shelter, so they're not out committing crimes like people like packs and
say they're all doing because they're not, you know, and that's just a
big lie anyway. But I don't know, we all know that that crime
sometimes imitates from poverty and desperation. So if the people get fed and they're
you know, get some first aid if they need it, and they get
a place to sleep, you know, that's going to help keep them on
a straight and narrow path. More the thing that bothers me, which you
guys have talked about with a lot of these religious organizations, I would say,
you know, like the Salvation Army and other places that do give handouts
to people. But oftentimes before you get the food or whatever, you've got
to listen to a prayer, you got to listen to a sermon. You
got you know, you got to you got to pay the dues with your
brain. You got to give up some of your mental capacity to put up
with that. And you know, there's been a lot of cases around the
country that Freedom from Religious Foundation has been doing a lot of lawsuits where you
know, various organizations are doing things like that. There was a jail up
in West Virginia where the twelve Step program he had to do to get probation.
A guy who was an atheist said, I can't do that. I
don't believe in the twelfth Step, and they said, too bad, you
got to stay. Well they you know, I mean, we got to
get this stuff. People's lives in terms of the doctrinaire stuff being pushed all
the time, and we know Paxton's probably not really very religious. He's probably
really pushing this because he wants to be hardcore on law and order. You
know, I'm taking care of these people that are coming across the board.
I'm going to send them all back. You know, there's that big fight
going on between the state and the federal government about who gets to control this,
and immigration is a federal issue because it has to do with a border.
So but you know, I don't know if they're going to get it
straightened out. Ever. Like you said, there was a bill put through
to try to get it done. It was sponsored by one of the most
conservative Oklahoma Democrat Republicans and many many people in the Democratic Party didn't like it,
thought it was too harsh, but it was put forward and the GOP
said no. So you're right. I think their their wedge issue is being
weakened considerably since it doesn't look like they really want to change. They just
want to yell and scream about it. And that's I think part of what
part of what Paxton's motivation is here to just keep raising that issue. You
know, these people are horrible, they're here, they don't belong here,
and we don't want anybody feeding them. I mean, that's it's it's politically
uncool, but just you know, morally, it's like, yeah, we
don't want you feeding these poor, hungry, starving people, and that's just
disgusting. So Scott, but you bring up a good point in that,
you know, we've all talked about how we're kind of suspicious of their motives
and that kind of thing, and whether or not that suspicion is warranted,
you know, remains to be seen. But you have to admit that there's
a track record here that there's a track record of yeah, we'll give you
some food, but you're gonna have to listen to this, you know,
to this uh sermon first, or you can you can stay in this uh
in this shelter, but you're going to have to read some Bible passages with
us. I mean, it's it's like a it's a quid pro quote kind
of thing. It's not it's not coming out of generosity here, or at
least it doesn't seem to be coming out of generosity. Uh. It's sure
from from the surface, it seems like it's uh an exchange of services.
It's it's you know, you do this for me, I'll do this for
you. H you want this shiny apple, Well, you're gonna have to
read this John three p. Sixteen first and then you can have it.
Right. It's it's it's uh, it's an established pattern of behavior. And
so if this is actually a legitimate humanitarian effort, it's clouded. It's it's
it's tainted by the by the stink from the Catholic Church, from all the
things that they've done in the past, and and so it's it's tough to
you know, we said at the beginning, you know, it's tough to
it's tough to get on their side, right even though if we agree with
that, you know that these people are in need of help and that we
want to help them, you know, it's it's hard to do that wholeheartedly
when you when we've seen this pattern of behavior for so long, for so
many years, and in so many different aspects, and all across different varieties
Christianity. It's not just a Catholic issue. It's across you know, all
kinds of churches. Now, of course, there are some legitimately good uh,
congrege I was going to say, churches but really it's the congregations,
right, It's the people that are in those churches where that goodness is coming
from. And so, you know, it's it's hard not to throw the
baby out with the bathwater. But you know, it's also hard to tell
the difference to you know, is this is this bathwater that has a baby
in it? Right? It's hard to tell that because we're so jaded,
and because we're so you know, we've we've been bombarded by these images for
so long. This you know, this food for Bible kind of kind of
exchange. But another thing, Richard, I think you were talking about,
or maybe it was Kelly about, uh, about the separation of church and
state. Right here, we're seeing really religious we're seeing the the beginnings of
a class here over religion versus versus state. And I'm not entirely convinced that
this is a you know, one hundred percent church versus state issue, but
I think we can at least see what's starting to happen. And I think
this could be maybe a warning shot to uh, to other kinds of religions,
you know, especially Christian nationalists. They're looking they want to incorporate religion
in your in your government. Well, if that happens, then the government
is going to be telling you how to do your religion right. And so
here we see it's starting to scrape against some uh, you know, some
different uh denominations of Christianity. They're they're going for the low hanging fruit,
right, the easy target. They can pick on the Catholics because, like
like Kelly was saying, you know, there's many denominations of Christianity that that
consider them to be the other. They're not part of us, they're part
of them, and so we can pick on them. And so I hope
that that that people can see this as this is what it's going to look
like. Except I might not be the Catholics tomorrow. It might be the
Baptist tomorrow, or it might be the Presbyterians tomorrow, or it might be
you know, the you know whatever tomorrow. It might be everybody tomorrow who
knows, who knows. And so if we if we leave the door open
for that kind of thing, it's a slippery slope. And so we want
to be in. I said that. I know I wasn't going to say
slippery slope, but I did. I said slippery slope. And so we
want to be careful of that kind of thing. This should be a warning,
This should be an indication of what might be coming down the road,
down that real smoothly. I did you know, you know, you just
got to do what you gotta do. I suppose Christian nationalists might be in
for a big surprise when they realized that five of the supremes on the Scotis
are Catholics and not national not Christian nationals. Right, be careful who's toes
you step on? Right? They might be kicking back at you. Yeah,
I mean there's there's actually a hard right Catholic on the Supreme Court.
Sure, No, almost all the Republicans on the Supreme Court, and there's
one there who's b actually part of a Catholic cult. Yeah. But I'm
just saying all five of the Republican right that that didn't put there by Republicans
are Catholic except Gorsuch is actually a Methodist, but he was raised Catholic.
He was Catholic most of his life until he got married. So great conversation
we're having. If you'd like to continue this conversation, you can either post
a comment below or send an email to TV at Atheist Typhoncommunity dot org,