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In a contentious move denounced by Catholic
leaders and local officials alike, Texas Attorney

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General Ken Paxson's attempt to shut down
a Catholic nonprofit aiding migrants and asylum seekers

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has been labeled an abuse of power
and affront to religious freedom. Annunciation House,

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based in El Paso, Texas,
was targeted in Packson's lawsuit and is

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accused of facilitating illegal entry in human
smuggling. However, Bishop Mark Sites and

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others swiftly rallied to defend the organization's
mission, emphasizing its long standing commitment to

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providing basic resources to those in need. Paxson's actions have ignited a fierce debate,

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highlighting broader concerns about the treatment of
migrants and the role of faith based

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organizations and addressing humanitarian crisis. This
story is from National Catholic Reporter by Kate

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Scanlon on February twenty six, twenty
twenty four. I've got to say I

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have a few things to say,
finding this a little bit of a unique

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story. But I was wondering,
Kelly, what did you think about this?

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I you know, this is something
I've been talking about that I had

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a feeling was going to be happening
at some point in the future. I've

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been thinking this is going to happen
all along. Christians, especially Christian nationalists,

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have this idea that all everybody everybody
else thinks the same way they do.

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It doesn't matter what sect they belong
to. And so here we see

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that that isn't so. And one
of the things that kind of delights me

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about this is that it's coming from
American Catholics, probably the most conservative far

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right Catholics in the world. There
are no other Catholics of far right as

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American Catholics. Now I realize that
no person who's on the political right isn't

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going to help these refugees. They
don't care about these asylum seekers. That

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the Annunciation House is actually stepping up
to help. But I was surprised that

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they win after a religious organization until
I realized, oh yeah, these are

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Catholics, a lot of Evangelicals whose
vote Paxton will need to fulfill his ambitions

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of being governor in the few future. They don't think Catholics are Christians anyway,

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so this isn't going to hurt him
with his base, so he can

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go after the Catholics all he want, But would he be going after them

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if they were a Protestant group.
I don't know if they would right.

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The World Church Group represents seventeen Protestant
churches and they have helped over eight hundred

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and fifty thousand people on the southern
border. The Lutheran Church has been active

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and has reportedly helped over three hundred
and seventy five thousand people at the southern

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border. Paxton knows this, and
he knows that he went after these group

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his base would drop him in his
instant, So he's decided to single out

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the Catholics and go after them.
Richard, Well, all I can say,

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unfortunately about mister Paxton and that government
is, you know, again we

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see the lack of compassion and care
for the quote other humans continually demonstrated by

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the executive branch of the Texas government. You know, Pakistan treats as a

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crime the act of getting food,
clean water, shelter and first aid to

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people who have nothing nothing. These
people come up here, you know,

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if their shoes aren't worn out,
they got a T shirt, a pair

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of shorts or got to be careful
with the shorts or you know, pants

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and maybe a coat and a backpack
and a little bit of something. But

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they're all dirt poor. That's why
they're coming to get away from a place

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they were and they're being treated like, you know, they're not human.

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And you know, it's really funny
when you think about Paxton. Wasn't he

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just impeached by his legislature and only
because of the partisanship he didn't get kicked

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out because he's been being investigated by
the FBI I think for the last what

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five or six years for some various
and sundry potential crimes. So you know,

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he's got a high horse to sit
on it and talk about other people

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should be you know, dealt with
by law authorities for feeding and clothing and

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helping some poor people who have nothing. I just I don't know it,

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just you know, I don't understand
where these people come from that, you

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know, Abbott and Paxton. I
mean, they're just two people I would

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never want to be around because they
just seem to be uncaring about their fellow

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human beings. So what do you
think, Scott? I think you hit

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it right on the head there.
I think you know, first of all,

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we got people here right there's people
that are wanting to come to America

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because they want to build a better
life. They want opportunity, they want

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safety, they want security for their
families. They feel threatened where they are.

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Uh and you know, and there's
some parts of America that want to

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say no, they want to close
down those borders and say no, you

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know, this is you need to
stop there. This is us, that's

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you. And and so here we
have a group, it's a religious group

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that are saying, well, no, we want to we need to take

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care of the people first. And
you know, I got to give them

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props for that. You know.
That's well, I'm not entirely sure of

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their motivations. But the actions that
they're doing are showing passion, our showing

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sympathy, our offering aid, are
helping people and they're improving people's lives as

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a result of it. That's so
that's a good thing too. However,

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having said that and being you know, fairly cynical person, so maybe this

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is my cynicism showing through. I'm
a little suspicious on the motive, on

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the actual motivation there on what you
know, if you listen to what they're

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saying, it's not the Bishop Marks
Sets of El Paso said this, we

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will not be intimidated in our work
to serve Jesus Christ and our sisters and

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brothers fleeing danger and seeking to keep
their families together. And so yes,

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he did mention the families there.
He did mention that people were needing help

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and they were offering help, but
only after only in the context of serving

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Jesus. And you know that has
to be the front. So it's hard

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for me not to imagine that he's
using this as a preachable moment, right

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he says, Oh, this is
an opportunity for me to preach from the

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pulpit to anywhere, any opportunity to
to say the name Jesus. You know,

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that's a wonderful opportunity. And so
you know, it's hard for me

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to say, is are they using
this, this uh this topic as a

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just a pond to to use to
praise Jesus. What I would like to

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see is setting that part of it
aside, okay, and then just helping

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people out. I understand that,
you know, I'm a little bit torn

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here. I do. Of course, I'm motivated by sympathy and compassion for

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for people that are in need,
and so uh so I applaud that aspect

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of this story. However, we
do need to balance that and we and

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the you know, the age here
he's he's trying to enforce the law,

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and really that's his job, and
so if there's problems with the laws,

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then yes, we need to change
those laws to reflect what many people think

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is the true nature or the true
spirit of being an American. Right,

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it's a it's a land of opportunity, and we help our fellow man,

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and we we you know, we
want to make a better world for everybody

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at least, that's you know,
that's the slogan, right. I would

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love to see pushing in that direction. If you want to change the laws,

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sometimes that you do have to cross
the line. And we've seen that

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in history many times, and so
maybe that's their approach. I don't know.

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I don't know, Infidel, what
do you think about that? I

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have to admit that I really enjoy
piling up on the Catholic Church at any

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given opportunity, And like you,
I do suspect their motivations because at the

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end of the day, Jesus this, Jesus that. Oh, and by

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the way, we believe we're going
to help some people but my distaste and

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their Jesus pushing Jesus down people's throat
doesn't change the fact that they are down

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there providing something that is a very
real need for people that are crossing the

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border. Like Richard mentioned, you
know, these aren't people that are coming

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over because they you know, they
wanted to check out the people's shorts and

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the pigeon Ford's parking lot there.
Because there's real desperation in their lives.

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They're looking to escape, literally oftentimes
in fear of their life. So when

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these people come here, leaving everything
behind, what little they may have had

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in the first place, to come
here, I've got to say thank you

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to the Catholics who are out there, not the bishop, but the ones

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that are out there actually doing the
work, the ones that are out there

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helping these people. I have to
give respect to them for doing that.

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Now, like Kelly said, though, this infighting is inevitable because what's a

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true Christian, Well, it depends
on who you ask, because there's thousands

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of denominations for a reason, and
it changes among Christians themselves. Among Christians

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individually, it changes, and it's
not consistent. Now, Paxton, he's

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on a rampage. He's trying to
clan. He's having a purity of not

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only means to be a Christian,
it seems, but also inside he's fighting

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his own party right here inside the
state because he's having a grudge match because

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once again, like Richard mentioned,
he almost got it. He was impeached,

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but it failed in the House,
and he's making sure that everyone who

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cross his path is paying the price. And I think that there is a

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very real level of what Kelly was
talking about about, Well, they're not

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real Christians, and the people who
support me are not going to lose any

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sleep. I might gain a few
points with them, and that's what's going

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on. Once again, it's a
matter of people playing for their base rather

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than working for real solutions. Because
there is an immigration concern, but we

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should always be aware we need immigrants
in this country just because we have an

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ass backward system that makes what we
need more difficult. It is not the

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person who's trying to come here's fault. They're coming here because at the end

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of the day, we're appealing to
them because we need them. Admittedly,

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one thing though, is my money
is on the Catholic Church. On this

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deep pockets and if there's anything about
the Catholic Church, we know they play

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the long game. They've been around
a long time, and they'll be around

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long after Paxton and I think that
this is just another show, another game

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for his base, and then they'll
move right along and everybody will forget about

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it. But what'll I know?
I can't stand the Catholic Church. So

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Kelly, what about you? I
wanted to dress a whole bunch of things.

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You guys have said we need the
immigrants because the immigrants keep the American

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dreamlive while Americans are killing it and
replacing it with the lotto. So these

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are people who are coming here to
work to build the future for themselves,

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while many people who are here feel
that that future they are entitled to.

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They don't have to work for it. My parents earned it and I get

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to have it right. So that's
one of the things that I really think

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is really good about bringing immigrants into
this country, that we are actually bringing

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back this idea of working to make
your world better instead of just letting it

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fall apart and expecting it all to
work around you Sky, you mentioned it.

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We have to change the laws.
We just tried to do that.

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They wouldn't do it, and I
think we all know what caused that that

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happens. So as long as certain
people who are involved in politics, I'm

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not sure that we're going to get
that going. And I think one of

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the GOP has lost this as a
wedge or has lost abortion as a wedge

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issue. I mean, they used
that for thirty years as a wedge issue.

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They don't have that anymore, and
they need a new wedge issue,

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and this is it. This is
that wedge issue. So we know you

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were talking about appealing to their voters, and yeah, this is exactly why.

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This is exactly why Paxson is doing
it. And it goes back to

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what I was saying before why he
chose the Catholics because his base, these

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people who think he's doing the right
thing, don't care about Catholics anyway.

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And I'm not so sure that that
the their motives are nefarious the Catholic Church.

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I mean a lot of the Tea
I think, I don't think it's

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overstepping to say that most Latinos are
Catholics anyway, So they're out there protecting

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their own really, when they think
about it, it's the Protestant organizations.

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I mentioned that might be out there
with Nefarius ideals trying to convert these Catholics

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over to their church. But one
of the things I wonder about, and

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Richard, I hope you can help
me with this with your legal background,

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isn't actually legal for the state to
go after the Catholic Church for doing this?

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Isn't this freedom of religion? Well, I don't think it's from what

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I read, I don't think that's
what it is. I think it's the

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fact that they are claiming that these
people are here illegally so that they're not

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supposed to be given any aid.
But I think the whole notion that we've

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had, you know, for years, of sanctuary and so forth, these

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people are hanging out in the church, you know, they should be left

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alone, first of all, if
they're there being taken care of and getting

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food and shelter, so they're not
out committing crimes like people like packs and

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say they're all doing because they're not, you know, and that's just a

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big lie anyway. But I don't
know, we all know that that crime

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sometimes imitates from poverty and desperation.
So if the people get fed and they're

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you know, get some first aid
if they need it, and they get

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a place to sleep, you know, that's going to help keep them on

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a straight and narrow path. More
the thing that bothers me, which you

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guys have talked about with a lot
of these religious organizations, I would say,

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you know, like the Salvation Army
and other places that do give handouts

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to people. But oftentimes before you
get the food or whatever, you've got

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to listen to a prayer, you
got to listen to a sermon. You

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got you know, you got to
you got to pay the dues with your

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brain. You got to give up
some of your mental capacity to put up

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with that. And you know,
there's been a lot of cases around the

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country that Freedom from Religious Foundation has
been doing a lot of lawsuits where you

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know, various organizations are doing things
like that. There was a jail up

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in West Virginia where the twelve Step
program he had to do to get probation.

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A guy who was an atheist said, I can't do that. I

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don't believe in the twelfth Step,
and they said, too bad, you

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got to stay. Well they you
know, I mean, we got to

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get this stuff. People's lives in
terms of the doctrinaire stuff being pushed all

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the time, and we know Paxton's
probably not really very religious. He's probably

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really pushing this because he wants to
be hardcore on law and order. You

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know, I'm taking care of these
people that are coming across the board.

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I'm going to send them all back. You know, there's that big fight

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going on between the state and the
federal government about who gets to control this,

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and immigration is a federal issue because
it has to do with a border.

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So but you know, I don't
know if they're going to get it

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straightened out. Ever. Like you
said, there was a bill put through

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to try to get it done.
It was sponsored by one of the most

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conservative Oklahoma Democrat Republicans and many many
people in the Democratic Party didn't like it,

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thought it was too harsh, but
it was put forward and the GOP

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said no. So you're right.
I think their their wedge issue is being

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weakened considerably since it doesn't look like
they really want to change. They just

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want to yell and scream about it. And that's I think part of what

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part of what Paxton's motivation is here
to just keep raising that issue. You

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know, these people are horrible,
they're here, they don't belong here,

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and we don't want anybody feeding them. I mean, that's it's it's politically

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uncool, but just you know,
morally, it's like, yeah, we

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don't want you feeding these poor,
hungry, starving people, and that's just

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disgusting. So Scott, but you
bring up a good point in that,

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you know, we've all talked about
how we're kind of suspicious of their motives

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and that kind of thing, and
whether or not that suspicion is warranted,

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you know, remains to be seen. But you have to admit that there's

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a track record here that there's a
track record of yeah, we'll give you

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some food, but you're gonna have
to listen to this, you know,

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to this uh sermon first, or
you can you can stay in this uh

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in this shelter, but you're going
to have to read some Bible passages with

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us. I mean, it's it's
like a it's a quid pro quote kind

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of thing. It's not it's not
coming out of generosity here, or at

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least it doesn't seem to be coming
out of generosity. Uh. It's sure

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from from the surface, it seems
like it's uh an exchange of services.

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It's it's you know, you do
this for me, I'll do this for

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you. H you want this shiny
apple, Well, you're gonna have to

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read this John three p. Sixteen
first and then you can have it.

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Right. It's it's it's uh,
it's an established pattern of behavior. And

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so if this is actually a legitimate
humanitarian effort, it's clouded. It's it's

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it's tainted by the by the stink
from the Catholic Church, from all the

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things that they've done in the past, and and so it's it's tough to

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you know, we said at the
beginning, you know, it's tough to

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it's tough to get on their side, right even though if we agree with

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that, you know that these people
are in need of help and that we

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want to help them, you know, it's it's hard to do that wholeheartedly

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when you when we've seen this pattern
of behavior for so long, for so

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many years, and in so many
different aspects, and all across different varieties

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Christianity. It's not just a Catholic
issue. It's across you know, all

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kinds of churches. Now, of
course, there are some legitimately good uh,

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congrege I was going to say,
churches but really it's the congregations,

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right, It's the people that are
in those churches where that goodness is coming

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from. And so, you know, it's it's hard not to throw the

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baby out with the bathwater. But
you know, it's also hard to tell

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the difference to you know, is
this is this bathwater that has a baby

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in it? Right? It's hard
to tell that because we're so jaded,

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and because we're so you know,
we've we've been bombarded by these images for

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so long. This you know,
this food for Bible kind of kind of

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exchange. But another thing, Richard, I think you were talking about,

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or maybe it was Kelly about,
uh, about the separation of church and

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state. Right here, we're seeing
really religious we're seeing the the beginnings of

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a class here over religion versus versus
state. And I'm not entirely convinced that

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this is a you know, one
hundred percent church versus state issue, but

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I think we can at least see
what's starting to happen. And I think

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this could be maybe a warning shot
to uh, to other kinds of religions,

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you know, especially Christian nationalists.
They're looking they want to incorporate religion

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in your in your government. Well, if that happens, then the government

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is going to be telling you how
to do your religion right. And so

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here we see it's starting to scrape
against some uh, you know, some

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different uh denominations of Christianity. They're
they're going for the low hanging fruit,

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right, the easy target. They
can pick on the Catholics because, like

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like Kelly was saying, you know, there's many denominations of Christianity that that

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consider them to be the other.
They're not part of us, they're part

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of them, and so we can
pick on them. And so I hope

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that that that people can see this
as this is what it's going to look

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like. Except I might not be
the Catholics tomorrow. It might be the

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Baptist tomorrow, or it might be
the Presbyterians tomorrow, or it might be

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you know, the you know whatever
tomorrow. It might be everybody tomorrow who

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knows, who knows. And so
if we if we leave the door open

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for that kind of thing, it's
a slippery slope. And so we want

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to be in. I said that. I know I wasn't going to say

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slippery slope, but I did.
I said slippery slope. And so we

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want to be careful of that kind
of thing. This should be a warning,

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This should be an indication of what
might be coming down the road,

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down that real smoothly. I did
you know, you know, you just

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got to do what you gotta do. I suppose Christian nationalists might be in

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for a big surprise when they realized
that five of the supremes on the Scotis

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are Catholics and not national not Christian
nationals. Right, be careful who's toes

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you step on? Right? They
might be kicking back at you. Yeah,

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I mean there's there's actually a hard
right Catholic on the Supreme Court.

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Sure, No, almost all the
Republicans on the Supreme Court, and there's

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one there who's b actually part of
a Catholic cult. Yeah. But I'm

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just saying all five of the Republican
right that that didn't put there by Republicans

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are Catholic except Gorsuch is actually a
Methodist, but he was raised Catholic.

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He was Catholic most of his life
until he got married. So great conversation

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we're having. If you'd like to
continue this conversation, you can either post

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a comment below or send an email
to TV at Atheist Typhoncommunity dot org,