WEBVTT

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This episode may contain content of a
graphic nature, including descriptions of physical and

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sexual violence against adults, children,
and animals. Listener discretion is advised.

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Hi everyone, I'm Tanya and I'm
Talia, and we are Crimes and Consequences,

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a true crime podcast. Hi Talia, him Tanya. Welcome back everyone

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to an exciting episode of Crimes and
Consequences. I'm not going to ask you

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how you are because I'm sick.
Yeah, you're not feeling well today.

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I don't know what's wrong. My
kids, they're filled with germs storm factory.

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My daughter was sick and now I'm
sick. I hope you don't make

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me sick anyway. Get over it, it over. It's not deadly,

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hope not. I don't think so. It's only day one, so wash

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your hands. I have a story
today that was suggested by Jess m and

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Johnnifer s Oh, two people.
Two people suggested this case. And before

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I start telling you, I would
just like to remind everyone to hit the

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subscribe or follow button on your favorite
app. And I'm gonna get into it.

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So two people suggested it is in
a famous case that I wouldn't know.

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I didn't know this one. Okay, it is about nine year old

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Erica Baker. Don't worry. It's
not child abuse, don't it's not that.

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I'm just telling everyone I can't do
that. Okay, it's not it's

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not. But in February nineteen ninety
nine, nine year old eric Baker vanished

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from her neighborhood in Kettering, Ohio. Have you ever been to Kettering?

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I don't think I have been to
Ohio, but yeah, I've been to

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Ohio. I've driven through Ohio a
few times. Okay. The investigation that

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would follow would shake residence to their
core. Kettering was once considered a safe

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place to raise children, but now
you know, they feel like a madman

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was on the loose when this happened, because she disappeared. Yeah, what

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was she doing once she disappeared?
I'm going to tell you. I'm sorry.

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I'm sorry. I get excited.
Okay. So, as I said,

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Kettering, Ohio. It's in Montgomery
County. It's in Ohio's southwest.

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Okay, I think so, oh
I got you there? I know?

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Is that Kentucky? Yeah it is
right map anyway. Anyway, it's considered

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the inner suburb of Dayton, oh
Dayton and Kettering's really connected to Dayton.

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In nineteen ninety nine, Kettering had
a population of about fifty eight thousand people,

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so it's not huge way, but
it's not small. It just was

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considered a safe place to raise a
family. There was lots of school and

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educational facilities, so it seemed like
a great suburb to live. Parents instilled

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the motto stranger, danger and children. You know you told your kids,

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I'm sure mine? Are you kidding
me? I literally would ride by with

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her playing and be like, I'm
sorry, I lost my puppy. Could

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you help me find it? Would
you like some candy? Did they ever

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fall for it? And they're just
like you, They're like, mom,

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what are you? What are you
doing? You're embarrassing me? Exactly in

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nine year old Erica. She obviously
was given this talk two so. Erica

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was born on June twenty second,
nineteen eighty nine, to her parents,

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Melissa, who went by Misty,
and Greg Baker. Unfortunately, the relationship

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between Misty and Greg did not last, and the two eventually divorced. Erica

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was the youngest of four children,
and she was the only girl. Greg

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Baker stated that his daughter was a
real daddy's girl. The two love to

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spend daddy daughter time together, and
Erica enjoyed camping, hiking, and fishing.

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And despite being small, like she
was just a little girl, Erica

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matched the energy of her three brothers
and she was very much the baby of

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the family. Like her brothers were
really protective of her. Erica could often

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be seen wearing pink, and it's
safe to say it was her favorite color.

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Her childhood friend Katie reminisced, saying
that the pair would often make up

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dance moves and wear matching outfits at
sleepovers. I feel like you're gonna make

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me really sad, and you said
you wouldn't. Well, I told you

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wasn't child abuse. I didn't say
anything about not being sad, all right,

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Tanya, Katie and Erica were inseparable, partly because Katie lived just a

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couple doors down from Greg Baker.
Erica was doing well at school and she

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was interested in cheerleading. She also
loved animals. Like most little girls,

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she loved getting her hair done and
like wearing bows and braids. She loved

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all that stuff. Yeah, she
loved to look her best and always flashed

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a smile and everyone she met.
Those who knew Erica described her as a

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kind, sweet and innocent young girl
who was incredibly popular. By nineteen ninety

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nine, Missy was living with her
mom, Pam Schmidt, and Missy and

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Greg were sharing custody of their four
children. This arrangement worked well for the

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family, and Erica looked forward to
spending her weekends in the Indian Riffle Park

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with her dad. The park was
close to Erica's home, and she often

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wandered to the park for a day
of adventure. There's also a recreation center

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and a senior center. I feel
like that's already you're going to say,

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a fishing pond, and the school
Erica attended was within the park. There

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was always something for Erica to get
into. There are adults watching Erica in

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the park. I don't know.
I don't, no girl, I listen,

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okay, you know, go ahead
them. So On February seventh,

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nineteen ninety nine, this was just
a regular day and Kettering. The temperature

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was moderate, but it was rainy
and dreary a little bit. On that

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day, Greg had the children,
including Erica, and the five of them

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were getting ready to return to their
mother's house. Greg bundled his children into

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the car and drove to Misty and
Pam's house. While in the car,

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Greg and Erica talked about the father
daughter dance that was taking place at the

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rec center that night, the one
that's in the park. Erica had asked

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her father to go with her.
She had been asking him for weeks,

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but Greg wasn't able to get tickets
like it sold out. What he called

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around, he can make an exception, come on, not a Taylor Swift

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concert. He called around to friends
and family. He was just desperate to

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put a smile on little Erica's face
because he knew she really really wanted to

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go, and he should just sneak
in. Would They'd have been funny,

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that would have been I know,
No, you can't come here with your

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daughter all dressed up in pink,
right, They really turn away? Sorry?

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Sorry. When Erica learned that her
father hadn't secured the tickets for the

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dance, she was just heartbroken.
And Greg felt a lot of guilt after

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Erica's disappearance because the dance took place
around the same time she disappeared, and

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he just beats himself up to this
day, thinking like if I had just

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taken nerves dance. I had just
gotten those tickets. If I would just

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busted in that place, right exactly, I'm sure that's the thoughts that go

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through his side. I would.
I mean, he probably kills himself with

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guilt every day. So, as
I mentioned, Greg and the kids are

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on their way to Misty's house.
So after a short drive, they get

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there and the children hopped out of
the car, waiting in line to hug

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their dad goodbye, give him a
little kiss. When Greg held his arms

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around his little girl, he had
no idea it's to be for the last

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time. I know. I'm sorry. Just before Eric had stepped into the

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house, Greg promised her that he
would make up for missing that father daughter

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dance. Erica put her disappointment to
the side when she saw her mom,

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Misty. She told her what she'd
up to with her dad that weekend,

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like, we just had a lot
of fun and whatever. As I mentioned,

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so it's a little bit rainy,
and Pam, who is Misty's mom

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and Erica's grandma, remembers the weather
very well. February seventh is just forever

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etched in her mind. At around
three pm, Erica had donned her favorite

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Winnie the Pooh sweater and pink raincoat. At first, Pam and Misty didn't

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want Erica to go outside in the
rain, but she had promised to wear

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her raincoat. I love being in
the rain. Oh me too. So

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after pleading with her mother and giving
the please, please please, I got

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to go to the Daddy daughter day. Let's just go the rain exactly?

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Can I just go outside? Pam
and Misty said, Okay, fine,

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you can go outside. Erica told
her mom she was heading to Indian Riffle

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Park to take Jamie. And Jamie
is a shitsu dog. She was gonna

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take Jamie for a while. So
if her parents didn't live that far from

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each other, no, no,
they didn't. Some sources say that Jamie

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was the family dog, but others
say that the dog belonged to Erica's aunt.

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So I can't say, oh,
she took her dog, you know,

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I'm not sure. Nevertheless, Erica
laughed at about three thirty, and

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people recalled seeing her in her pink
raincoat walking toward Indian Riffle Park. Missy

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and Pam trusted that Erica could walk
the dog safely on her own. Indian

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Riffle Park was just a stone's throwaway
from their house, and the community was

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regarded safe and peaceful. Witnesses and
people who knew Erica and her family recall

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seeing her in the park, walking
and playing with Jamie. One witness would

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later come forward to investigators saying that
they saw Erica standing by the bleachers alone

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in the pouring rain. So it's
wondered, like, why was she alone?

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Was she waiting for someone? Like, what's going on? That's a

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question that's never been answered. Well, maybe she was just chilling for a

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second. Ye she was alone at
the park, and it's maybe she was

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under the bleachers. Just two joggers
making their rounds in the parks. Did

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Erica playing with Jamie? These two
joggers are regarded as some of the last

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people to see Erica. Are you
calling and I'm sorry? According to Missing

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Erica Baker and Missing Erica Baker is
a podcast by Dayton twenty four seven Now

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the podcast, a lot of the
information in the podcast was used in this

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and our pasts. Yes in our
podcast. So according to Missing Erica Baker,

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there was also an elderly couple who
recalled seeing Eric in the park day

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afternoon. But I'll talk about that
a little bit later, when Pam looked

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up through the basement window and saw
that it was getting dark outside, she

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rushed upstairs to see if Erica and
Jamie had returned. Like most children,

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Erica was scared of the dark,
and Pam hadn't heard the front door slam

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shot that afternoon. Yeah, there's
no way in nine year old girls may

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hanging out a park. No.
I wouldn't even hang out in a park

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in the dark. Hell no,
not today. They would fuck that.

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No, I would not be hanging
out of the park in the rain in

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the dark. No, thank you. That's where the creepers go. Exactly.

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So Misty was equally worried. Erica
had never failed to return home for

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dinner like most of us. When
faced with a horrific situation, Misty ran

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to her mom, like, what
are we gonna do? I'm gonna call

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him police. Yes, Well,
before they called the police, they put

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on their coats and went to the
park to look for Erica. Pam and

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Misty's that podcast I mentioned that Missing
Erica Baker podcasts Pam and Misty. They

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are interviewed on this podcast and they're
featured pretty heavily in it. Pam commented

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that during the initial hours of Erica's
disappearance, she searched in bushes, trees,

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cars, and any other spot that
she could think of. The two

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began calling Erica's friend's house to see
whether she had taken shelter there, but

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she hadn't. I was just call
nine one. Then that hysterical mom,

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Oh my god, I know,
right, but I mean I'm not no,

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no, I know. Erica's brothers
quickly figured out what was happening,

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and they took off to look for
their baby sister. The group also searched

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the school in Indian Riffle Park,
which Erica attended, along with the rec

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center where the father daughter dance was
taking place at the same time. Ye,

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Missy hoped, yeah, Eric had
wandered into the dance, that maybe

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she had begged someone to let her
in, But their hopes were shattered when

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the searches turned up no sign of
Erica. After failing to locate her in

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the park, Pam ran home and
placed the nine one one call. Pam

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provided exact detail in the call to
eight operators and getting the call through with

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correct information. She hadn't even finished
giving the nine one one operator all the

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details when she saw a swarm of
flashing lights. That's awesome. Yeah,

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they were quick. Around six pm, Greg's homephone rang. He was in

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the middle of dinner, so he
gets up from the table and he answers

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it and it's Misty. His head
just started to spin as he listened to

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his ex wife and the other of
his children tell him that their daughter Erica

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was missing. In a state of
panic and shock, Yeah right, Greg

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sped down to Misty's house. He
was also in the Missing Erica Baker podcast

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and he told them that seeing the
sea of Cuttering police cars outside of the

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home just cemented to him that this
is serious, this is real. He

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just described the whole thing as being
surreal. A command center was created in

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the park that Indian Riffle Park,
and the Cunning Police Department immediately began plans

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for the search for Erica. Dozens
of residents poured into the park to see

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what was going on, and this
is when they learned of Erica's disappearance.

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The Cuttering Police Department deployed helicopters,
search teams that's yeah, in sniffer dogs

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to try and locate Erica as soon
as possible. Sniffer dogs sniffer dogs.

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Okay, some dogs what they call
all right, sniffer whatever. Okay,

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okay, okay, I'm not getting
hum up at them. Pam and Misty

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were told to stay home in case
Erica returned, but they really wanted to

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be part of the investigation. They
wanted to look for Erica. Yeah,

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well too, I'd have like one
person can stay home, right, right.

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So this desire to want to be
a part of the search just became

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too much and they ended up returning
to the park not long after they had

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stayed home for a little bit.
Word of Erica's disappearance had spread like wildfire.

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By this point, Cattering was very
interconnected in a close knit community,

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and over three hundred residents turned up
to the rec center to help look for

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her. Volunteers headed out with police
units to scour every inch of Indian Riffle

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Park. Hours after the Cattering Police
Department were alerted to Erica's disappearance, they

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also received a call about the dog
Jamie. Remember she was with Jamie.

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An elderly couple in their sixties had
been walking through the park that afternoon with

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their dog Muppet. That's an elder
couple you were talking about. Earlier.

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Yeah, when they spotted Erica and
Jamie playing. And they said, though,

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but one moment she was there and
the next she was gone, okay,

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and they didn't see anything else.
No, and they didn't see anything

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else. And they told investigators that
at around five PM, that's when they

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found Janie alone. The dog was
soaking wet and terrified, and her collar

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and her leash were still attached.
And this became just crazy because Erica would

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have never left the dog right.
That couple wasn't aware of the significance of

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their discovery at the time, and
Jamie was taken to a local pound like

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they didn't know, but she was
later reunited with the family and tracker dogs

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tracker dogs sniffer dogs. Investigators were
now slowly piecing together Erica's last movements to

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her family had just made no sense. She would leave Janie alone. She

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was a social butterfly that would talk
to anyone, but she also loved animals.

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At ten thirty, Detective Bob Green
received a call. Now, Detective

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Green was a new detective, had
only been a detective for seven months,

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but he was known for having impeccable
interviewing and interrogation skills. And he had

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no idea that this call would change
the course of his career. He was

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briefed about Erica's disappearance. Anne was
asked to get down to the makeshift command

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center as soon as possible. When
he arrived, he spoke with fellow officers

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to get a handle on the situation. And before I tell you more,

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we're going to take a break.
The detective's first thought was that maybe Erica

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had fallen into There's a pond in
this park and it's like two point nine

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million gallons. Oh, it's huge. It's the size of a football field,

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and according to the CDC, drowning
is leading cause of death and children

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under four. Did you know,
Anne, I didn't know that. I

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didn't know that. I think poisoning
is up there too. Really, I'm

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accidentally eating something that they shouldn't.
The water level in this pond were unusually

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00:17:00.399 --> 00:17:06.000
high due to the heavy rainfall that
the area had gotten recently. Detective Green

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immediately set us sights on the pool. Well, if there's rainfall, wouldn't

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there be footprints and things? You
would think so, right, because it

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was raining, Yeah, it was
raining. When you see like little footprints,

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Yeah, I'm not a detective.
I know, I'm not a detective

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00:17:18.680 --> 00:17:22.079
either, but you would think so, right, I don't know. Pam

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and Misty watched as officers began to
search the pond. They immediately knew in

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their hearts that Erica wasn't in the
water. She was described as a strong

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swimmer and had fished dozens of times
in the park with her dad. Grag.

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She also knew how to get herself
out of the water. But nonetheless,

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it happens. Yeah, kids round
and so it gets searched. Volunteer

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00:17:45.400 --> 00:17:51.400
searchers continue to look for Erica throughout
the night. The Kettering Fire Service also

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joined the search. Immedia CRUs had
solowly begun creeping into the park. Media

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yeah. Media. By the next
morning, Erica's disappearance had made Kettering news

240
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and everyone was talking about it.
Suspicions immediately flew Greg's way. I don't

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know, you know how people are
people. I know he couldn't even take

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00:18:11.240 --> 00:18:14.799
her to a daddy daughter. Damn
right, exactly right. The people of

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00:18:14.880 --> 00:18:18.799
Kettering had once considered Greg a friend, they now considered, hey, he

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00:18:18.720 --> 00:18:23.400
is the one that's responsible. How
horrible is that You're people think you did

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00:18:23.400 --> 00:18:26.839
it? I know, people avoided
him on the streets. It was just

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00:18:26.960 --> 00:18:33.440
bad. They can off right.
Neighbors and colleagues of the family began to

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00:18:33.440 --> 00:18:37.400
talk to airing any secrets that the
pair, like Greg and Missy, may

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have divulged in innocent conversations, and
all of a sudden things that weren't suspicious

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00:18:42.640 --> 00:18:45.960
before. Right, all of a
sudden, you look at it a different

250
00:18:45.960 --> 00:18:52.000
way. Yeah, exactly, Katie, Erica's best friend that I told you

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00:18:52.039 --> 00:18:56.880
about before. She remembers that the
neighborhood children were no longer allowed to walk

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to the bus stop alone or play
outside without supervision. The entire town was

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00:19:03.000 --> 00:19:07.079
on edge, and the children of
Kettering were just confused. Why it was

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Erica's school desk empty? When was
she coming home. Katie also said she

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had no idea Erica was missing until
she saw it on the morning news or

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parents didn't even tell her. I
know. When the sun came up on

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00:19:19.319 --> 00:19:23.720
February eighth, nineteen ninety one,
Greg and Missy realized that their little girl

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wasn't coming home, breaking my heart
right now, I'm sorry. The notion

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00:19:27.880 --> 00:19:33.799
hit both of them incredibly hard.
While officers searched and drained the pond,

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the FBI was notified and they arrived
on the scene shortly thereafter. Detectives and

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00:19:38.200 --> 00:19:44.160
FBI agents held two briefings daily at
eight am and four pm. For the

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00:19:44.200 --> 00:19:48.240
next few months months, detectives would
work sixteen hours a day, seven days

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00:19:48.279 --> 00:19:52.240
a week to find Erica. This
is not like New York City's fifty eight

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00:19:52.680 --> 00:19:59.759
people in it, right, It's
just like a suburb of Ohio. It's

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00:19:59.759 --> 00:20:03.079
just sad. For the next two
to three days, the Cutting Police Department,

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00:20:03.119 --> 00:20:08.319
assisted by experts and other agencies,
drained that two point nine million gallon

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00:20:08.400 --> 00:20:15.480
pond. The operation continued until the
last drop was gone, and they didn't

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00:20:15.480 --> 00:20:18.200
find anything. They didn't find anything. No, I always think they'd find

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00:20:18.200 --> 00:20:22.160
a body or something like a bicycle
or some something. They didn't find anything.

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Panamisty knew that Erica hadn't been in
the water, but this really gave

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00:20:26.960 --> 00:20:30.559
them no relief. She wasn't in
the pond, So where is she?

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00:20:30.680 --> 00:20:33.039
Yeah? So where is she?
That's not a better scenario, not think

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00:20:33.079 --> 00:20:40.160
about it. Shortly after Erica's disappearance, remember that elderly couple I told you

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about. Yeah, yeah, they
agreed to be interviewed. The man Rackx

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00:20:45.279 --> 00:20:49.759
told investigators everything he knew and agreed
to be put under hypnosis. Oh I

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00:20:49.839 --> 00:20:56.200
love hypnosis, Yeah, to see
if there was any subconscious memories. He

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told the police department that the condition
of Janie struck them as odd. Rex

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00:21:02.480 --> 00:21:04.880
recalled that the park was empty and
that Erica and Jamie were playing near the

279
00:21:04.880 --> 00:21:10.359
bleachers. One moment she was there, the next she was gone. All

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known sex offenders in the area were
questioned, as well as Erica's family.

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00:21:14.640 --> 00:21:18.599
They didn't see any cars there or
anything. No, no, missy,

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Pam, Pam's partner, and Greg
were all interviewed. This interrogation did little

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00:21:25.400 --> 00:21:29.440
to quell the rumors of Greg's involvement. They're being interviewed, Yeah, the

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police are talking to him. In
one instance, he walked into a restaurant

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00:21:33.160 --> 00:21:37.039
and kettering and noticed that everyone pulled
their children away from I mean, come

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00:21:37.079 --> 00:21:41.960
on, people are just idiots sometimes. Yeah, but then they don't know.

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00:21:41.519 --> 00:21:45.200
They might think he did. And
what if he did? I know.

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00:21:45.119 --> 00:21:51.240
He was actually asked to leave as
the waitress felt it was too sad

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00:21:51.279 --> 00:21:56.279
to serve him. Despite what the
townspeople said, Greg continued to search for

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his little girl. As the investigation
progressed, the center moved from the parking

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00:22:00.400 --> 00:22:04.200
lot to the rec center, the
same rec center where the dance, The

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00:22:04.279 --> 00:22:08.799
Dandy Daughter Dance was held. Is
this months later? Still? I don't

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00:22:08.799 --> 00:22:11.319
know how long? How long it
is? Yeah, it's months later.

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00:22:12.160 --> 00:22:17.839
Greg felt tinges of pain and regret
that he couldn't take Erica to the dance,

295
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and like I said, he still
has this feeling today. Pam and

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00:22:21.720 --> 00:22:26.200
Misty spent as many hours as possible
the rec center manning the phone lines.

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00:22:26.839 --> 00:22:30.359
A dedicated tip line had been created
for Erica, and the tips poured in

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00:22:32.440 --> 00:22:36.759
the National Center for Missing and Exploited
Children, and the FBI stayed with the

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00:22:36.799 --> 00:22:41.400
investigation at no cost to the city
of Kettering. On June twenty second,

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nineteen ninety nine, well how long
is this? She's disappeared? February?

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This is four months later. Misty
brought a sheet cake to the command center

302
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and celebrated what would have been Erica's
tenth birthday. Heartbreakingly, she cut the

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00:22:56.279 --> 00:23:00.240
first slice and said she would freeze
it to say for Erica when she came

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00:23:00.279 --> 00:23:07.640
home. Oh, man, I
know. Pam, Misty and Greg displayed

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00:23:07.759 --> 00:23:11.640
resilience and mental fortitude throughout the investigation. At least they didn't blame each other.

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00:23:11.880 --> 00:23:15.200
Yeah, right, the fingers at
each other. You know, that's

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00:23:15.400 --> 00:23:18.480
at least they stuck together. Yeah, Like you said, their dedication helped

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00:23:18.519 --> 00:23:25.119
to keep Erica's case alive, and
they're the reason that Erica's case continues to

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00:23:25.160 --> 00:23:30.119
make headlines. Tips and leaves poured
in, but they often led to dead

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ends. The residence of Kettering were
on edge thinking that a child killer was

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00:23:33.119 --> 00:23:37.160
on the loose. Kettering is about
five miles from Dayton, like from Downpound

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00:23:37.240 --> 00:23:41.559
Dayton, and most residents felt that
these types of crimes only happened in the

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bigger cities. In July nineteen ninety
nine, Pam picked up the phone and

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00:23:47.559 --> 00:23:52.799
received a tip that would change the
course of the investigation. The caller uttered

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00:23:52.839 --> 00:23:56.839
one name, Christian Gabriel to Pam. Yeah, because she's at the command

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00:23:56.839 --> 00:24:02.920
center. Remember Christian Gabriel and his
girlfriend at the time, Jan Franks,

317
00:24:03.480 --> 00:24:07.599
were known to the Kettering Police Department
the periods drugs and often found themselves in

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00:24:07.640 --> 00:24:11.160
trouble with the law. Around the
same time, Detective Green received a call

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00:24:11.240 --> 00:24:18.240
from Clifford Butts, a prisoner who
had recently watched America's Most Wanted Erica's case

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00:24:18.319 --> 00:24:22.599
had been featured, and he told
Detective Green he knew what happened to Erica.

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Detective Green sprung into action and immediately
drove to meet with Clifford. This

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00:24:27.119 --> 00:24:30.799
is where Erica's case takes a buzz
our turn. Oh boy, Christian,

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00:24:32.079 --> 00:24:36.319
we got a guy in prison that
was watching America's most wanted said, hey,

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00:24:36.400 --> 00:24:38.200
I know what happened. Okay,
you got to talk to this guy,

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00:24:38.400 --> 00:24:44.920
Clifford. Clifford butts. Clifford told
the detective, you got to talk

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00:24:44.960 --> 00:24:48.759
to Christian, okay. So this
is one of the stories that Christian told

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00:24:48.799 --> 00:24:56.599
the police. During Clifford's meeting with
Detective Green, he said Christian confessed to

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00:24:56.720 --> 00:25:02.839
accidentally killing Erica on February seventh.
That afternoon, Clifford, his wife,

329
00:25:03.160 --> 00:25:07.039
Christian, and Jan, which was
Christian's girlfriend. So Clifford was out of

330
00:25:07.079 --> 00:25:10.319
jail. Yeah, Clifford was out
of jail. They were in the parking

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00:25:10.359 --> 00:25:15.039
lot of a supermarket. Christian left
his van and he said that's when the

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00:25:15.039 --> 00:25:21.480
accident happened. So it's believed that
Christian and Jan were high end crack at

333
00:25:21.480 --> 00:25:26.000
the time. Sack Man and this
account of what happened would later change.

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00:25:26.319 --> 00:25:30.519
So this is Clifford's account. Yeah, what happened. Then Detective Green brought

335
00:25:30.640 --> 00:25:34.920
Christian in for interrogation and a lie
detective tests. Oh and he agreed.

336
00:25:36.079 --> 00:25:40.200
Yeah, I guess so. During
the initial interview, Christian maintained his innocence

337
00:25:40.200 --> 00:25:44.160
and told officers he didn't kill Erica, he didn't know who did, and

338
00:25:44.240 --> 00:25:48.200
he didn't know if her body was
somewhere. He had no idea. Detective

339
00:25:48.240 --> 00:25:51.839
Green was determined to discover the truth, even if it was going to take

340
00:25:51.920 --> 00:25:53.160
him like the rest of his life. And you told me, he's really

341
00:25:53.160 --> 00:25:59.119
good at interrogation. Yeah, and
he knew that something about Christian's story just

342
00:25:59.200 --> 00:26:03.440
wasn't right, so he continued to
apply the pressure. Investigators were also interested

343
00:26:03.519 --> 00:26:07.880
in Jan Frank's that was Christian's girlfriend. Yeah, you got to get the

344
00:26:07.880 --> 00:26:12.039
woman the right because Clifford Butts also
said that Jan was there in the van

345
00:26:12.119 --> 00:26:17.000
that day. But they would come
to find out that Jan was married while

346
00:26:17.000 --> 00:26:21.559
she was dating Christian, so she
immediately lawyered up. Anne was assigned a

347
00:26:21.680 --> 00:26:25.920
federal public defender named Beth Lewis,
So that means they charger. Yeah,

348
00:26:26.240 --> 00:26:30.680
she's assigned. Why they would I
don't know why they would charge her charger

349
00:26:30.720 --> 00:26:33.119
with her. She's assigned an attorney. I mean, she's charged with some

350
00:26:33.759 --> 00:26:38.720
bullshit misdemeanor being in a park when
she should be whatever. Applying the pressure,

351
00:26:40.640 --> 00:26:45.160
Beth Lewis was determined not to let
the Kettering Police Department nor the FBI

352
00:26:45.480 --> 00:26:49.160
talked to her client Jan throughout the
nineteen nineties. In the early two thousands,

353
00:26:49.240 --> 00:26:53.039
Beth continued to create a wall of
silence around Jan. So Bath is

354
00:26:53.119 --> 00:26:56.640
Jan's attorney, Yep, and she's
doing a badass job. Yep, she's

355
00:26:56.640 --> 00:27:02.359
defending her client. Yeah. Then
two thousand and one, Jan Franks passed

356
00:27:02.359 --> 00:27:07.799
away due to an overdose. So
who knows what she knew? I feel

357
00:27:07.799 --> 00:27:10.240
he has an attorney. I'd be
like, Okay, now I can write

358
00:27:10.240 --> 00:27:14.200
that book, right, I know? But can't you want to know?

359
00:27:14.920 --> 00:27:18.880
You know? I told you like
Jan was married. Her husband couldn't break

360
00:27:18.880 --> 00:27:25.079
that attorney client confidentiality privilege. But
he decided after she died, he was

361
00:27:25.119 --> 00:27:30.200
going to do what was right her
husband, and he went to Erica's family

362
00:27:30.640 --> 00:27:33.720
because, I mean, there's no
marital privilege anymore. She's dead, right,

363
00:27:34.279 --> 00:27:40.920
Who's gonna question that. Jan's husband
wanted Beth to go to Erica's family

364
00:27:40.960 --> 00:27:45.039
and be like, Okay, we
have to come clean. But Beth continued

365
00:27:45.079 --> 00:27:48.480
to stay quiet. She argued her
case for several years. That was until

366
00:27:48.559 --> 00:27:55.240
she was hit with a contempt of
court order. The Ohio Supreme Court unanimously

367
00:27:55.359 --> 00:28:00.119
decided Beth Lewis had to talk in
two thousand and four as an attorney,

368
00:28:00.240 --> 00:28:03.119
Yeah, how is that possible?
I don't know. They made her though.

369
00:28:03.160 --> 00:28:07.319
The prosecutor, Matthias heck Junior told
AP News, quote, anything and

370
00:28:07.440 --> 00:28:12.039
everything we can get is what we're
after. We want every bit of information

371
00:28:12.079 --> 00:28:15.759
we can about what happened, where
Erica is and what happened to her.

372
00:28:17.480 --> 00:28:21.240
After the Supreme Court ruling, Beth
Lewis had no choice but to talk and

373
00:28:21.440 --> 00:28:26.680
guess what, she had no viable
information for the least. To this day,

374
00:28:26.720 --> 00:28:30.720
nobody knows why Beth went to extreme
lengths to protect information that wasn't even

375
00:28:30.839 --> 00:28:33.680
useful. Yeah, I mean,
if you know, I don't know,

376
00:28:33.960 --> 00:28:36.960
I don't know. Listen, I'll
talk to you guys. This is what

377
00:28:37.039 --> 00:28:40.839
mc clients said. Didn't say shit. I know in this process she picked

378
00:28:40.880 --> 00:28:44.920
up a contempt of court charge.
I've never had one of those. I

379
00:28:44.960 --> 00:28:52.519
haven't either not yet not yet.
She likely ruined her professional reputation. I

380
00:28:52.519 --> 00:28:56.880
mean, I don't know, or
she got more publicity and people called her

381
00:28:56.880 --> 00:29:00.240
all the time. Yeah that's true, Say shit, I know, right,

382
00:29:00.319 --> 00:29:03.720
so, but I don't know what
she's doing today. The pressure on

383
00:29:03.799 --> 00:29:07.920
Christian was also mounting. He had
found himself a new girlfriend, Jane was

384
00:29:07.960 --> 00:29:12.400
married to somebody else and Plush passed
away, and this girlfriend had no idea

385
00:29:12.480 --> 00:29:18.720
about his possible involvement in Erica's case. The National Center for Missing and Exploited

386
00:29:18.799 --> 00:29:23.680
Children decided to up the ANNIE and
showered the area where the pair lived with

387
00:29:23.880 --> 00:29:30.279
Erica's missing persons posters and flyers.
At one point, Christian's new girlfriend demanded

388
00:29:30.319 --> 00:29:33.319
to know what was going on.
This moment was captured during a recorded prison

389
00:29:33.359 --> 00:29:38.759
call while Christians he was serving time
on unrelated charges. I demanded, no

390
00:29:38.920 --> 00:29:44.039
on a prison phone. Yeah if
you killed somebody? Okay, Well girl,

391
00:29:44.079 --> 00:29:47.440
I ain't telling you shit. I'm
on a prison phone, so Christian's

392
00:29:47.440 --> 00:29:52.440
new girlfriend. She was then contacted
by Detective Green. He briefed around the

393
00:29:52.440 --> 00:29:57.119
case, and when cattering Police Department
officers arrived to her door, she was

394
00:29:57.480 --> 00:30:02.480
exceptionally forthcoming. Living in the area, she had heard of Erica's case,

395
00:30:02.519 --> 00:30:04.720
but she had no idea that her
boyfriend and the father of her child,

396
00:30:06.839 --> 00:30:11.200
Yeah, had been interviewed and viewed
as a suspect. When she welcomed the

397
00:30:11.240 --> 00:30:14.799
officers into her home, she guided
them toward the kitchen. The officers were

398
00:30:14.799 --> 00:30:19.079
confused at first. In the kitchen, she approached the fridge, removed herself

399
00:30:19.119 --> 00:30:23.799
from view, and stop pointed to
Erica's missing poster, but she had placed

400
00:30:23.799 --> 00:30:27.960
there, Okay, all right.
She also revealed that Christian had relapsed and

401
00:30:29.000 --> 00:30:33.119
began smoking crack again. As Christian
had found himself incarcerated once more, Detective

402
00:30:33.119 --> 00:30:37.960
Green decided it was time to pay
him another visit. Detective Green said,

403
00:30:38.440 --> 00:30:41.720
So, I had a chair right
next to him, and I moved over

404
00:30:41.799 --> 00:30:45.559
him. I said, why don't
you tell me more about that? And

405
00:30:45.599 --> 00:30:48.440
as in listening, I said to
myself, I will never forget this for

406
00:30:48.519 --> 00:30:51.920
as long as I live. On
July nineteenth, two thousand and four,

407
00:30:52.079 --> 00:30:56.839
Christian confessed to Detective Green that he
jan Frank's, Clifford Butts, and Clifford's

408
00:30:56.839 --> 00:31:00.039
wife had been in his vand that
day after me at the supermarket. Like

409
00:31:00.079 --> 00:31:06.759
I told you, they were driving
on the intersection of Glengarry Drive and pow

410
00:31:06.839 --> 00:31:11.079
Wotton when they heard the thud of
something hitting the van. But it wasn't

411
00:31:11.079 --> 00:31:15.680
something. It was Erica. I
know this story, you now, I

412
00:31:15.839 --> 00:31:21.039
do. Christian claimed that she darted
out into the middle of the road and

413
00:31:21.079 --> 00:31:25.160
there was nothing he could do to
stop. According to Detective Green, Christian

414
00:31:25.400 --> 00:31:29.279
could describe both Erica and the dog, Jamie, right down to the minute

415
00:31:29.319 --> 00:31:33.960
details of Jamie's adorable little doggie mustache. He then claimed they all panicked,

416
00:31:34.960 --> 00:31:38.039
threw Erica into the back of the
van, and drove to his apartment.

417
00:31:38.440 --> 00:31:41.640
Christian couldn't remember whether Erica was alive
or dead when he threw her into the

418
00:31:41.720 --> 00:31:45.839
van. Instead of calling police or
seeking help for Erica, they drove back

419
00:31:45.839 --> 00:31:49.559
to his apartment, left her body
in the van, and then the four

420
00:31:49.720 --> 00:31:55.480
smoked crack, okay, just to
take the edge off. And while they

421
00:31:55.519 --> 00:31:57.519
were smoking crack, they decided what
they were going to do with Erica.

422
00:31:57.640 --> 00:32:01.599
As Detective Green pointed out, they
could have driven Erica to a nearby hospital,

423
00:32:01.720 --> 00:32:06.759
but they are smoking cracked. They
could have left her at the entrance.

424
00:32:06.799 --> 00:32:12.359
I mean, they didn't even have
to just crawled anonymously, right,

425
00:32:12.519 --> 00:32:17.000
But instead they're going to do something
really stupid. After finishing their crack smoking,

426
00:32:17.039 --> 00:32:22.039
apparently, Jan hopped into the driver's
seat and assured Christian that she knew

427
00:32:22.079 --> 00:32:24.160
a great spot to hide a body. Oh that's nice, and that little

428
00:32:24.200 --> 00:32:28.960
Airica would never be found. Oh
that's fucking great. I know. The

429
00:32:28.960 --> 00:32:34.200
defective Green would later question the validity
of this confession. Is Jan Franks couldn't

430
00:32:34.279 --> 00:32:37.200
drive a manual car. Oh it
was a stick shift. Yeah it was

431
00:32:37.200 --> 00:32:40.359
a stick shift. I can't drive
one even I Can'm bad ass. They

432
00:32:40.359 --> 00:32:45.039
don't have them anymore, but I
tried to learn once when I had owned

433
00:32:45.039 --> 00:32:49.839
a Mustang, but I bought an
auto. Man Mustang such a bad ass

434
00:32:49.920 --> 00:32:52.279
to it was a convertible. I
love it. Ah, of course she

435
00:32:52.359 --> 00:32:54.440
would, And then I got pregnant. He had to get rid of it.

436
00:32:54.519 --> 00:32:59.039
Yeah that's right. You got him
a minivan instead. One day.

437
00:32:59.039 --> 00:33:01.880
I'm gonna get that must back another
convertible one day, and it's going to

438
00:33:01.920 --> 00:33:07.039
be an automatic because I can't drive
a stick anyway. The four drove to

439
00:33:07.160 --> 00:33:12.079
Huffman Dam, and again Christian gave
varying stories. At first, he told

440
00:33:12.079 --> 00:33:15.680
Detective Green that he could take them
to where Erica's body was, which was

441
00:33:15.720 --> 00:33:19.359
a fifteen or thirty minute walk into
the woods. Then he changed his story

442
00:33:19.400 --> 00:33:22.039
and said that he had stayed in
the van while the others went to get

443
00:33:22.119 --> 00:33:24.359
rid of Erica, and that he
was drunk and high. He also threw

444
00:33:24.359 --> 00:33:29.599
in details such as Clifford coming back
without a coat, and also said they

445
00:33:29.640 --> 00:33:32.880
had possibly driven to Caesar Creek State
Park, a whole twenty six miles away

446
00:33:32.920 --> 00:33:37.599
from Huffman. Dam what the fun
man? And where the fuck is it?

447
00:33:37.839 --> 00:33:39.640
Like? Where where did you go? I may not get your cracked

448
00:33:39.640 --> 00:33:44.279
out? But come on, I
know, come on. According to Detective

449
00:33:44.279 --> 00:33:49.200
Green, Christian asked for a bathroom
break like during this confessional pee I know,

450
00:33:49.599 --> 00:33:52.160
And as he was leaving the room, he turned a Detective Green and

451
00:33:52.200 --> 00:33:57.480
said, what would I get for
tampering with evidence, gross abuse of a

452
00:33:57.559 --> 00:34:01.759
corpse, and vehicular manslaughter. At
this point, Christian had pretty much confessed

453
00:34:01.759 --> 00:34:06.559
to driving the van that day,
and Detective Green knew he had what he

454
00:34:06.640 --> 00:34:09.159
needed. It would take several months, but on December thirteenth, two thousand

455
00:34:09.159 --> 00:34:15.000
and four, Christian Gabriel provided the
Kettering Police Department with a written confession.

456
00:34:15.239 --> 00:34:19.840
Part of his confession read I'm really
sorry, missus Baker for what has been

457
00:34:19.840 --> 00:34:22.440
done. Nothing was done to her
after she was hit. She wasn't raped

458
00:34:22.519 --> 00:34:27.039
or anything like that. I know, because I'm not that sick of a

459
00:34:27.079 --> 00:34:31.840
person that wouldn't rape a girl he
hit on a road. I know,

460
00:34:32.079 --> 00:34:37.480
I could just hurt some and then
it's sick, like when somebody makes a

461
00:34:37.519 --> 00:34:39.719
mistake in it's s I c like, so they fucked it up. He

462
00:34:39.760 --> 00:34:44.719
wrote something fucked up here, like
it didn't make sense. So I could

463
00:34:44.800 --> 00:34:47.840
just hurt some that is so precious
in God's eyes. Again, I'm sorry.

464
00:34:47.880 --> 00:34:52.079
So I think maybe he meant I
couldn't hurt someone, but I could

465
00:34:52.119 --> 00:34:57.639
put her in the trunk and go
smoke crack and if she's alive or daddy.

466
00:34:57.880 --> 00:35:01.039
Yeah. But he yeah, Okay, he's got standards. He can

467
00:35:01.119 --> 00:35:05.719
fuck off, I know. Right. In October two thousand and five,

468
00:35:05.880 --> 00:35:08.880
just three days before the Statute of
Limitations was up. It was a six

469
00:35:08.960 --> 00:35:14.599
year statute for what the vehicular man
so well, he was indicted on charges

470
00:35:14.639 --> 00:35:19.280
of tampering with evidence and gross abuse
of a course. Several weeks later,

471
00:35:19.320 --> 00:35:22.159
he was found guilty on both counts
and sentenced to a shocking six whole years

472
00:35:22.159 --> 00:35:27.800
in prison. While Pam, Misty
and Gregg were relieved that someone had finally

473
00:35:27.840 --> 00:35:31.960
been held accountable for Erica's disappearance,
the sentence nor the charges really felt like

474
00:35:32.119 --> 00:35:36.880
justice. And we don't even know
if he's fucking telling the truth about any

475
00:35:36.880 --> 00:35:39.519
of this. I know he couldn't
be charged with murder because according to Ohio

476
00:35:39.679 --> 00:35:44.800
law, a body must be found
before someone can beg an old law.

477
00:35:45.079 --> 00:35:49.199
Christians story has changed so much over
the years that nobody believes him at all.

478
00:35:49.559 --> 00:35:52.840
Was it really an accident or was
Erica targeted? Christian claimed that he

479
00:35:52.920 --> 00:35:57.320
wanted to take Erica to the hospital, but Jane, who was no longer

480
00:35:57.360 --> 00:36:00.320
alive to dispute this, said it
would get them in trouble. Some believe

481
00:36:00.440 --> 00:36:06.639
the group didn't turn themselves in due
to the drug use prior convictions, or

482
00:36:06.679 --> 00:36:10.639
maybe the fact that they likely had
drugs in the van. No DNA evidence

483
00:36:10.719 --> 00:36:15.280
was ever found in Christian's van,
and by the time it had been forensically

484
00:36:15.320 --> 00:36:19.760
searched, had been cleaned and given
to a new owner. Better have some

485
00:36:19.800 --> 00:36:22.679
sort of closure for me, Tanya, As if this case doesn't have enough

486
00:36:22.679 --> 00:36:27.840
twists and turns, they're still more
in June twenty eleven, Christian was released

487
00:36:27.880 --> 00:36:31.719
after serving his measly six year sentence. The residence of Cattering were anticipating his

488
00:36:31.840 --> 00:36:37.280
release and was shot that a car
was waiting outside the prison for him.

489
00:36:37.599 --> 00:36:40.320
Insight, said a woman. But
it wasn't Christian's mom, who had stood

490
00:36:40.320 --> 00:36:44.239
by him throughout the case. It
was someone else's mom. He fell in

491
00:36:44.239 --> 00:36:47.079
love in fucking prison. No,
it was Pam. Pam, yeah,

492
00:36:47.159 --> 00:36:52.280
grandma, yeah, grandma. Yes. When Greg Baker heard that Pam had

493
00:36:52.280 --> 00:36:57.119
picked Christian up from prison, he
was living What the fuck is this shit?

494
00:36:57.360 --> 00:37:02.119
I know, he was pi.
Christian been convicted of abusing a corpse

495
00:37:02.159 --> 00:37:07.079
and tampering with evidence, and now
Pam's given him ride home. She must

496
00:37:07.119 --> 00:37:10.039
believe his sorry tale. Well,
she said, she said, you know,

497
00:37:10.079 --> 00:37:14.159
this is how she defended herself.
She said the only reason she picked

498
00:37:14.199 --> 00:37:16.519
him up on his release day was
because she wanted to talk to him face

499
00:37:16.559 --> 00:37:22.559
to face. She practically begged Christian
to take her to her granddaughter's body,

500
00:37:22.079 --> 00:37:25.719
and even told him that she had
a shovel in the boot of the car

501
00:37:25.800 --> 00:37:30.760
ready to bring Erica home. Oh
man, I know, she told Fox

502
00:37:30.880 --> 00:37:35.639
nineteen. I've done everything I can
to try and convince him to tell me.

503
00:37:35.679 --> 00:37:37.039
I even picked him up and took
him to his mother, hoping he

504
00:37:37.079 --> 00:37:39.800
would talk to me. Okay,
well, I I mean I guess I

505
00:37:39.840 --> 00:37:45.119
see she's lost it. Yeah.
Unfortunately her this move didn't pan out.

506
00:37:45.239 --> 00:37:50.920
Yeah, and Christian just feigned ignorance. Pam was just shattered. She thought

507
00:37:50.960 --> 00:37:53.559
she could somehow reach his soul,
but she didn't realize he has So he

508
00:37:53.599 --> 00:37:57.719
has no fucking soul, right,
somebody would know soul does something like this.

509
00:37:57.920 --> 00:38:00.599
You accidentally hit somebody, if that's
what really happened, you just bury

510
00:38:00.639 --> 00:38:05.159
their body because you panicked and don't
remember where you yeah, and don't yeah,

511
00:38:05.159 --> 00:38:07.679
exactly because you bury so many bodies, right, come on. Pam,

512
00:38:07.800 --> 00:38:13.000
Misty and Greg continued to advocate for
Erica and want her remain so they

513
00:38:13.000 --> 00:38:16.440
can give her the burial she deserves. As of two twenty three, Erica's

514
00:38:16.480 --> 00:38:21.519
case is still being investigated. Stop
I wanted an end, and although a

515
00:38:21.559 --> 00:38:24.599
Detective Bob Green is now retired,
he does not say that Erica's case is

516
00:38:24.639 --> 00:38:29.480
cold, and neither do those still
working on it in the Kettering Police Department.

517
00:38:30.079 --> 00:38:32.599
And twenty twenty two, a new
witness came forward who stated that they

518
00:38:32.639 --> 00:38:37.719
had seen Christians Van in Huffman Dam
on the evening of February seventh, nineteen

519
00:38:37.840 --> 00:38:39.760
ninety one, and that's one of
the places he had said. Yeah,

520
00:38:39.960 --> 00:38:45.599
yeah, this witness did not come
forward earlier because they feared repercussions. How

521
00:38:45.599 --> 00:38:49.280
would you remember that? Like I
wouldn't remember for a song. They might

522
00:38:49.400 --> 00:38:53.039
know him. Maybe maybe that's why
they feared repercussions. And of course they

523
00:38:53.039 --> 00:38:59.719
has to drive a van exactly right, no offense all the other van drivers.

524
00:38:59.760 --> 00:39:02.320
But you know what I'm saying.
The police department continued to do searches

525
00:39:02.599 --> 00:39:07.119
and such, and during one of
these searches recently in twenty twenty two,

526
00:39:07.159 --> 00:39:12.639
forensic investigators came across bones at Hoffman
Dam. Unfortunately, they were later determined

527
00:39:12.679 --> 00:39:16.000
to be non human, but to
find has only encouraged the Cattering Police Department

528
00:39:16.000 --> 00:39:22.119
to keep looking. Texas Equisearch has
also sent officers and resources to Cattering sniffer

529
00:39:22.119 --> 00:39:30.119
dogs. Sniffer dogs were also brought
in and these dogs hit on two locations

530
00:39:30.119 --> 00:39:34.320
close to a creek. Interestingly,
the area that was searched and where the

531
00:39:34.360 --> 00:39:39.039
dogs alerted was smack dab in between
Hoffman Dam and there's another state park like

532
00:39:39.119 --> 00:39:44.519
that other state park that Christian had
talked about. Detective Green I mentioned has

533
00:39:44.599 --> 00:39:47.480
long since retired, but he was
present for the twenty twenty two search that

534
00:39:47.599 --> 00:39:52.039
was brought about. He celebrates Erica's
birthday every year and vows to never forget

535
00:39:52.119 --> 00:39:55.760
her. Her case is one of
the only ones in his career that remain

536
00:39:57.480 --> 00:40:00.360
sort of unsolved. Technically, it
sounds we don't really know what happened,

537
00:40:00.400 --> 00:40:05.639
right, And he's made it his
mission to bring the family closure before he

538
00:40:05.920 --> 00:40:09.239
and they pass away. Misty and
Pam have moved away from Kettering. They

539
00:40:09.280 --> 00:40:13.440
were unable to stay in the home
that held so many memories and so much

540
00:40:13.440 --> 00:40:16.239
pain for them. I'll be able
to stay in that town either. Pam,

541
00:40:16.239 --> 00:40:21.239
Missy and Greg celebrate Erica's birthday every
year. I'll drive around all the

542
00:40:21.239 --> 00:40:24.960
time, just so right, and
I like searching woods and you know,

543
00:40:25.440 --> 00:40:30.519
losing my mind. Christian Gabriel has
since dropped off the face of the earth.

544
00:40:30.400 --> 00:40:34.360
Nobody knows where he's really no,
I mean, nobody knows exactly where

545
00:40:34.360 --> 00:40:37.000
he's at. Authorities believe he might
be living in Oregon, but nobody knows.

546
00:40:37.480 --> 00:40:40.559
Pam has said that the only real
closure that she would have would be

547
00:40:40.599 --> 00:40:45.119
if Erica walked through the door,
you know, if she's still alive,

548
00:40:45.440 --> 00:40:50.800
Erica would be thirty three years old
today. And anyone with information is asked

549
00:40:50.800 --> 00:40:55.639
to contact Detective Mason of the Kettering
Police Department at nine three seven two ninety

550
00:40:55.679 --> 00:41:01.079
six two five five, quoting case
number nine nine zero two sixty six.

551
00:41:01.559 --> 00:41:07.320
And that's the random story. And
I know, I think they probably were

552
00:41:07.320 --> 00:41:09.599
on crack and hit her. Probably, I mean, I wouldn't doubt it.

553
00:41:09.800 --> 00:41:13.800
I sound they're a bunch of fucking
idiots on crack. They didn't know

554
00:41:13.840 --> 00:41:16.320
what to fucking do. And yeah, how is there no blood on the

555
00:41:16.360 --> 00:41:20.840
dog leash? I know, like
I'm thinking maybe the dog get away from

556
00:41:20.880 --> 00:41:22.480
her and she ran to go get
it. She ran to the street and

557
00:41:22.480 --> 00:41:27.079
these idiots are coming by baryling down. Yeah, and they could not cranking

558
00:41:27.159 --> 00:41:30.679
some music, smoking some c I
mean, that could have happened. I

559
00:41:30.719 --> 00:41:35.119
don't know who knows. That's sad. I know, I'm sorry, I'm

560
00:41:35.119 --> 00:41:39.960
sorry. I want a sad one. The story is sad. Yeah,

561
00:41:40.039 --> 00:41:45.960
you're right, it's usually about someone
being murdered, that's true. But some

562
00:41:45.199 --> 00:41:49.280
touched me more than others. Yeah, I know what you mean. Yeah,

563
00:41:49.320 --> 00:41:53.559
I mean, well, we got
some shout outs. Oh, we

564
00:41:53.599 --> 00:41:57.960
had to do that. These are
our favorite people ever and if you're wondering

565
00:41:58.000 --> 00:42:00.639
who they are, these are people
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566
00:42:00.800 --> 00:42:04.440
And if you're an Apple subscriber and
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567
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does not give us your name or
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568
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Yeah, so you have to contact
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569
00:42:12.239 --> 00:42:15.559
contact at Crimes and Consequences dot com. So anyway, these are our shoutouts

570
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Patreon dot com, slash t NT
crime TNT crimes. We have Mike M,

571
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573
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Fan T it's t h A n
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574
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575
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581
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ka Anna G, Trista S,
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582
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peas going yeah, Vanessa F,
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585
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and Melinda L. Who Thank you
cool people. You guys are rock so

586
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yeah, bless you God bless We
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