You. Chilly Effect is sponsored by Wallstreet, Window dot Com and listeners liking
you now and now atd Noise and in All Media. April three, twenty
twenty four. Allegedly, according to that thing we call it Calender, I
could have said Calendor. It kind of might have sounded like an old store
that went out of business, Caldor. But anyway, let's not digress too
much. Tonight. It is Wednesday, Wednesday, middle of the week,
hump day. Some people call it a lot of things going on in the
world, an upcoming eclipse. Apparently people that work for celebrity chefs might be
legitimate accidental targets in a war zone. The presidential thing is still going on.
Lots of stuff happening. Plus, I have a question from the chat
room, because I did forewarn you, if you will, that Larryhancock would
be on of me. Of course, Larry is accessible on the interwebs at
Larrydashhancock dot com and you can find out about the many books that Larry has
authored taking up a lot of space on my bookshelf, but not just taking
up space. It's there because it's relevant, necessary, and a treasure to
be displayed. So what do I have over there, lots of stuff.
Someone would have talked shadow warfare, surprise attack, okay, creating chaos,
educational, informational, historical relevancy, research of all sorts going into this.
Plus he's a solid writer. How about that anyway, interesting guy, regular
appearances here as a co host of sort, creator of series, and indeed,
tonight we're gonna call this subset. We're going to christen a new subset,
if you don't mind, And what are we gonna call it? Well,
as per Larry's direction, I believe he's come up with the right way
to describe the subset that we're going to have to continue because it is continuous?
Which inquiry am I talking about? Is there a little bit of an
O MO there to something else? Maybe? But let's see, how about
this? Oh my goodness, I just had a note in front of me
and my computer did something a little strange. So sorry about that, unidentified,
just like one of the books by Larry Hancock's Unidentified, the continuous Inquiry.
There you go. So this will be the beginning of a subset that
really has a whole bunch of preamble to it. And many other shows where
we've gone over unidentified. By the way, I didn't mention all the books
that Larry wrote, or even all the topics Martin Luther King Junior's assassination.
He's co authored stuff with Stu Wexler. I automatically think of that when I
think of The Awful Grace of God and what is the name of the updated
version of the Killing King book? Actually, Killing King was the most recent
version of The Awful Grace of God. So Killing King is the more recent
version of the MLK work. That's what I meant to say. Sorry about
that, see that we were just talking about misstatements just before the show.
By the way, off air. Yeah, so that is the more updated
version of yours and Stew's work on the topic of the Martin Luther King junior
assassination. Then is that correct? That's right? And I'm amazed that I
remember that Chuck No Problem books, and by the way, I have both
of those on my shelf. So just saying, oh, and Tipping Point,
which again is a continuation but not an update of Someone would Have Talked,
although Someone would Have Talked has been updated a few times. Why because
Larry never seems to stop with his continuous research and all those things, those
political intrigues and murder and all that not the topic of tonight's discussion, more
along the lines of again the book Unidentified, and there's a subtitle to that
one too, isn't there, Larry Unidentified? The national security problem of UFOs
right there you go. Now it's not within arms reach, which is why
I didn't grab it. And oh, by the way, of course,
I have that one, you know, I have that one on my shelf.
We've discussed it on the show various times. But you're doing more work
that is not necessarily published with just your name on it. Indeed, there's
a group of people involved there, and we've talked about the conferences and all
that. So many many pre shows to this subset of shows do exist already,
but we're gonna start going on a continuous inquiry, so Larry, before
we go there, though, again, another piece of business I want to
take care of is moments before when I was still setting things up, and
it took me a little while to set the show up. We're a little
late going to live, arey. You podcast listeners don't care because you're listening
to it whenever you feel like it. But anyway, fact of the matter,
there was a question in the chat room. So let's see if I
can read this verbatim if you don't mind, And of course we're having the
BLO line guy read, so it might take a second for it to make
sense, at least in my head before I try to relate it to you.
Uh not you, Larry, I mean you know the you, the
the generic you that's out there, the the people that are listening to the
show at their particular times a day if they're not hearing it live. Right,
So anyway, Uh, here we go. Okay, So the whole
question, why is the NSA talking about winning Johnson to their side? In
quotes after gushing over Kennedy in this document, the writer says Johnson is a
capitalist. Odd thing to say, and says they must win him over.
Uh what the what the ns to? What the NSA question mark? The
documents question mark, the c I A question mark? What is their side
question mark? Uh so that is a question for Larry Hancock and of course
citizen GX in the chat room, who we all know actually as caller Jimmy
James on the show, regular caller, regular listener, appreciated contributor to the
show, and supporter. Anyways, he provided us with a link to a
Mary Farrell document which discusses this and all that. So I handed that over
to Larry a couple of minutes before the show. Larry, what do you
make of this? Sure after a quick scan of the document, and it's
interesting because we don't see a whole lot of these, but I've seen some
of them before. This is actually an NSA intercept. It's classified as top
secret DINAR. The DINAR is a code for the source, So this is
something that NSA is providing to other people the sources classified. It could be
a radio intercept. It could be a cable intercept, it could be a
cable see cable transmission, et cetera. Given the time frame, the Given
the time frame and the length of the message, I would more likely think
that it's probably a cable intercept. Again, we had the facilities to intercept
cables uh under international transmission, and people did not realize it, certainly at
the time that we were. We not only intercepted and collected information on our
adversaries like Russia, but we also did it on even allies, French,
British, whatever, just standard practice because we want to know what they're thinking
about us. So to me, this reads and looks like a cable from
an embassy in Washington, d C. And they're talking about the political state
and affairs after the assassination and to to paint how it's going to change,
and is pretty common stuff after any significant event, Usually an embassy in a
country does a political analysis and wrap up and cables it back to their nation,
right, frankly, this is yeah, frankly, really quickly too,
just as a refresher to anybody who might be unaware fact of the matter.
The NSA in and of itself, I mean, this is its function is
to intercept these types of transmissions. That is like their literal core job to
grab basically everything that's broadcast one way or another. Everything that is disseminated is
supposed to be grabbed ally, enemy, neutral, oddity, it doesn't matter.
That's pretty much their job the way that I understand it. I mean,
would that be a fair statement. It's kind of interesting. During this
period of time, during the early sixties, there were actually a number of
infections, three or four defections of US personnel that were working for NSA doing
intercepts. And I guess when they took the job. They didn't realize that
they were actually going to be intercepting Allied traffic, and that really rubbed them
the wrong way. And actually some of them defected and issued statements. So
the US is horrible because it even spies on its allies, you know,
and some of them ended up in Russia. But there were a couple of
exposs Up until that time, you know, nobody really understood that we were
doing this. But by this point in time, in the sixties, it's
probably pretty common knowledge that just regular cleared traffic is intercepted by the NSA.
And the best guess I can make from this and a quick reading, my
I guess would be that it's either coming from the Israeli or the French embassy
in Washington. Just a rough guess, fair enough. But as I said,
you know, when it comes to loyalties and trying to describe, you
know, because he asks there which side do they mean? What side are
they referring to? Well, I think that's actually a fair question when it
comes to the NSA, And because that's part of the summary, right,
I mean, that's that's part of like, Okay, what we have to
do with this is this good. The side is going to the side is
in references. You know how closely is how closely is precedent Johnson going to
come in on the side of the Israeli foreign policy, the French policy.
US is this other government. You know, they're they're trying to predict how
is he going to change? You know, we we've we've had a position,
the US has had a position towards US towards you know, is this
going to change? So the the S does it refer to the NSA taking
a position. It really refers to the anticipated position of the Johnson administration vise
of the France Israel whoever this is, which by the way, this is
the thing that I find most you know, disconcerting or concerning, however it
is you want to put it, when it comes to this idea where indeed,
even if the president and his administration is not in you know, absolute
control of everything, despite some people's readings of how the executive branch is in
charge of all, they are very influential and being able to gauge that and
understand how those interactions are going to go on. This affects things far outside
of uh, just politics. You know that this really does have a real
world effect. So it's a fair thing to at least, you know,
intercept what you can collect, what you can even open source what people would
call open source intelligence also commonly constantly collected by the NSA. There's actually a
logic to this, you know, where some people just kind of go,
okay, i'fbit agency bad, you know, but there's a functional reality to
this that isn't always nefarious, oh not at all. And so in this
case, another option might be Iran. And at this point in time,
especially Israel and Iran very dependent on US arm sales. Yes, and the
US then as now, always plays political games with this arm sales. So
it's going to be very important to whatever government this is to anticipate whether or
not the new administration may change their tax on Oh well, wait a minute.
Kennedy was authorizing or not authorizing US certain types of weapons. What about
Johnson is emore open And as it turns out, in reality, Johnson turned
out to be much more open to certain types of foreign or arm sales than
JFK had been. And although the document doesn't contain this, you know,
my last word on it is pretty simple. This speaks to the operational end
of the continuity of government. Now, I know that's a frightening phrase to
a lot of people with good reason, but the continuity of government, this
is what needs to be gauged, even you know, some people would say
needs to be controlled and all of that, but this is what needs to
be gauged. And what we get here is a little glimpse at that process
that needs to be understood in a greater context, which we are not going
to explore tonight because we have something that is outside of this scope and yet
falls under the NSA's workload, or at least should in my mind, when
it comes to what the concept UAPs you know, previously known as UFOs,
right, I almost feel like it's that change in name like Prince did where
he changed it to symbol, where it's like a lot of people are confounded
by this being the label attached to it, but it's still the same thing.
You know, UFO artist is formally known as ye. Yeah, the
artist formerly known as UFO is now UAP. But still the study is worthy
and obviously the collection of intelligence is worthy, and indeed that is part of
what you and the group that you are working with are focused on. So
let's talk about that. There there was a paper recently released for peer review,
and what are we about a week behind on that? Now? I
guess I intended to bring you on last week to discuss this, but I
had a technical issue. So the thing is, uh, yeah, what
about that? Tell us about the release of that paper, and I will
provide links in with the show notes, And they're also in the live chatroom
atochelli dot com, where even if you're not hearing the show live, you
can always roll back and look at the various references that have been placed there
by myself, listeners, guests sometimes, although I don't think Larry's ever placed
anything in the chat room there, but he gives me stuff and sometimes I
place things there for Larry. Anyways, tell us about this and what's happening
and what might be upcoming regarding the UAP study if you don't mind. Yeah,
Well, we actually and basically the group that I belonged to, the
Scientific Coalition for UAP Studies, had initiated a project something over four years ago
and we formed a team to do an intelligent study of UAPs and basically a
strategic intelligence study. And we knew that it was going to be a major
long term commitment because these types of studies, you know, you just they're
not hit and run. You've got to collect a lot of data, do
a lot of work, build a database, do a lot of analysis.
So the team's actually been in existence going on four years and up to this
point in time. Last week we published our third study, So as you
can see, we're averaging a published study once a year, which kind of
suggests how much work goes into the process. And the goal of the study
is to basically look at UAP sidings during the height of the Cold War nineteen
forty five nineteen seventy five. The reason for that particular length of time is
that's the time most of that time up to nineteen seventy the Air Force was
actually collecting and building a they didn't call it a database, but at least
a big file of UFO sidings and investigating them. So you could count on
cases that were reported being officially investigat if they were from the military. Military
sources were held, you know, responsible. You don't get a lot of
hoaxes within the military because they were reporting something according to official, sanctioned guidelines.
And so we built a database primarily of military and law enforcement reports and
kind of stepped back and said, all right, now, let's look at
the patterns of activity for these UFOs UAPs. Do we see any Is this
stuff just randomness? Everybody see them all over the place all the time,
you know. And we started out looking at what was being reported from various
types of military facilities, in particular atomic energy, the atomic energy complex,
radiation production facilities, design weapons, design labs files. Did you have an
intent initially to have a specific focus on atomic assets for lack of a better
word, seemingly regarding these incidents? I mean, the concentration around those types
of facilities has been discussed in public for a while. Which, by the
way, I'm also going to provide you guys with another link to to a
media story from about six months ago, if you don't mind, Larry,
where there was a discussion and the group that you're part of, the you
know, ever after we'll call it the SCU, all right, because that's
the shortened version of it, right, yes, okay? So and anyway,
what did they do? Well? The headline was calls on Congress,
the SCU calls on Congress to pass these Schumer rounds Anyway, there was a
bit of a call to action to the Congress from your group saying, look,
we can do this, sure, but greater access, greater studies.
I mean, what was the goal about six months ago? Just to put
this in context, and I'll give you, guys a let's see, I
guess from k R O N four. Yeah, k R O N four
dot com, which is the website news organization that has one of the most
prominently searched headlines regarding this, you might want to read it over you the
listener, not you Larry to to get a feel for some of what's being
offered here as solutions or answers to existing questions at least or maybe problems,
depending on what the questions lead us to. So is that fair and no,
Flarry you think? Or what should we look at regarding the sus for
that Thress release, A Senator Schumer had had put legislation and the Defense Appropriations
Bill to actually create a commission to collect UFO UAP cases for a study.
And the important thing to us is we have data from nineteen forty five to
nineteen seventy five. We don't have any more contemporary data, and there's no
place to get it, and there's no place to get it out of military
files or whatever. Well, Schumer's legislation would have created a commission to go
out and get that data so one could see, if you know, if
whatever we see going on during our period is still going on. Unfortunately,
his legislation was defeated in Congress and stripped out, and basically the kind of
commission that we had hoped for to retrieve these records just didn't happen. But
that was our goal at the time, and now we are left with really
no access to that data. Well and interesting too, because there was an
uptick in interest in this per se pretty much inspired you know. The two
major catalysts in my mind were the releases of these videos by the you know,
the government right, which had been previously released, but they sort of
you know, authenticated what had been previously released on the Internet regarding some of
these images, which are exciting of objects which are behaving in a rather odd
way, qualify as UAPs or UFOs if you're speaking from the older tongue,
if you will. But but that in combination with some pretty sensational hearings that
occurred where gentlemen who seemed to have, you know, bona fide connection to
various organizations. And I'm not saying that he doesn't have those connections. I'm
just saying what the appearance was at this point gave some pretty pretty interesting statements
that have never been made before, stating that you know, there were active
programs and alien seized and all this stuff. The stuff that you know,
ordinarily is commonplace when it comes to capturing the attention of the public, at
least during the entirety of my whole life. You know, I grew up
at the time where what was it, Close Encounters of the Third Kind was
a sort of national phenomena as a movie, right, got people thinking about
it. Et the extraterrestrial would follow, whether it was family entertainment or sci
fi or things meant to frighten people one way or another. This idea,
this concept all becomes you know, quite relevant. I mean, the evolution
of the imaginary, futuristic star trek universe. All of these things play a
part in capturing the public's imagination, but don't necessarily do us a lot of
favors when it comes to learning about the real world situation. Indeed, what
you're looking at are real world studies of things that have happened, things that
were accounted for by recognized bodies within our government, other governments, even made
Maybe at some point, you know, all of this could be put into
context and maybe create a database like you were talking about before, that might
allow people to have a greater understanding of what's happening, at least regarding things
that remain unidentified and unknown as far as their intent, et cetera, et
cetera. Is any of that incorrect that I'm stating here, Larry? Is
this this all makes sense to you? Well? No, and that's again
that's no natural study. Period. The The problem was that the the phenomenon
of the reports whatever were always taken one at a time. The Air Force
took them one at a time, investigated them and came up with an explanation
or didn't literally, and then they published their numbers. It's like, okay,
for this year, we had this many reports, we investigated this many
and eighty or ninety percent of them were identified or that were classified as misidentifications
of whatever phenomena atmospheric, you know, aircraft whatever, and there were you
know, ten percent left. And the good news is none of those ten
percent did anything harmful, So we're good. Now we'll go on to the
next set. So that's the way it was treated. There was never a
strategic analysis done the way our team is doing it. What would have been
good is that if we still have no sign, even now after those congressional
hearings, are concerned Chuck, after everything that's happened over the last two years,
there's no sign that the legislation that Congress passed, which created a group
within the Department of Defense to look at the subject, there's still no sign
that they're doing what I just described. What they're doing is they're taking reports
that they're given. They have no authority to force them out of anyone.
They're taking reports that they're given, and they're studying them one by one and
then reporting back to Congress and saying, you know, we got two hundred
reports, and again eighty or ninety percent of them are misidentifications and ten percent
we're still investigating. And by the way, we're never really going to be
able to do anything with them because there's not enough data. If we had
more data, maybe we could tell you what they really were. Right now,
they're just in a bucket called unidentified and that's that's the exact same language
that you find in that was given to Congress a month ago by this group
in twenty twenty four, that was generated by the Air Force back in nineteen
sixty nine, exactly the same wording, exactly the same approach. So the
government approach has not changed at all. We're trying to take a more strategic
study approach, which is why we're seeing patterns and patterns and activity, and
why we're really seeing things that they don't see because they don't look at them
in that perspective. And you ask a question, did we start this study
looking at the atomic warfare complex? And the answer is yeah, we did.
We specifically wanted to look at what was going on in the general military,
what was looking on in the conventional military at regular military basis, you
know, of all types, as compared to the atomic warfare complex, to
see if there was something anomalous going on in the atomic warfare complex, because
that's the first question you've got to ask. I mean, first, is
it kind of random? Everything everywhere? It does? Nothing fall out?
Are all military basis seen the same quantity the same time? And as it
turned out, no, there were some very definite patterns that fell out of
that, and the patterns were time delimited. The UAP activity was focused on
one particular type of facilities for three four years and then that stopped, and
they moved to another type of facility for three or four years, and then
that stopped. And the interesting thing about that point in time is at that
point in time they moved strictly to a focus on deployed strategic atomic weapons.
We're talking about h bombs, you know, city killers, whatever you want
to call them, and they never went back and looked at those other places
anymore. You don't see that pattern. And the interesting thing about that is
that pattern continued through the end of our study to nineteen seventy five. What
would really be fascinating would be a study that said did it continue beyond that
point in time? And that's something that this AAR, which is this new
government agency, could do. But in the report that they issued just last
week or two weeks ago, now I guess there's actually a section in they're
supposed to be doing history, right, so there's a section on what was
happening at UAPs, at you know, atomic sites, and basically the commentary
and the reports about a page long and says we couldn't find anything significant,
and we're going, what, you know, all those people that testified to
you, You guys are just failing to do this entirely. You're not even
looking at this, which would probably be the most significant thing part of the
history you'd look at. And I don't know. They're supposed to be extending
that historical study into a second paper, and we're fascinated to see what they're
going to come up with. But again it's already been pointed out that if
if they were doing what had been inspected of them, they would be doing
what we did right now. I ask you the check it, you know,
but they're not right now. I exhaustively went over with you. The
only contradiction I offered to all of what you just said is that you said
the government basically did nothing. I would say, well, they kind of
did something, because you and I went over what it is they've done.
They had no place for anybody to hand over reports, to hand over observations
about this, no specialized place for anybody theoretically, and we went over that
last time, so we don't need to go over it again. But I
urge people to listen back to the pre show to this series a bit,
because I think it is significant, sorry to borrow that word, you know,
to understand that, yeah, this is the move they made, but
then take a look at the quality of that action and what it actually results
in. I'll leave it there, you know, But that's the point to
be heard, is that that was the only change is now there's a place
to send your reports and your observations to think it. It's important for those
that didn't catch it last time. The fascinating thing is that's a voluntary thing.
You can send it to this group, which is a government organization which
has a place to put it. But the US intelligence community is not connected
to them. So a report that's generated anywhere into the dozen sixteen different agencies
associated with US national security that can be circulated all through that network and never
get to them because they're not part of the intelligence community. They're part of
the Department of Defense, but not part of the intelligence community. If you're
an engineer and you can, you know, relate to a system problem,
this is a system's problem. Yeah, certainly, because oh it's great that
that information is being collected, but now what gets done with it? If
there is let's just say there is a potential threat connected to one of these
reports. There's no place I mean, the military gets it, but there's
no mechanism by which this is handed over to the CIA, the you know,
some some group that could take action here, somebody the Department of Homeland
Security, let's say, might might have some relevant action that could be taken
defensively if something was found to be hostile or malicious directly, right potentially theoretically,
but there's no place for it to go, right, I mean,
that's and beyond that we even know. I mean, the intelligence community is
classified and it's secure, but it's how it's organized is open. I mean,
the point is to do this kind of strategic study, long term study
that we're doing, look for patterns, it would have to be bumped up
to an intelligence committee working under the National Security Council. It would actually have
to be tasked to them. Congress can't even do that this, This Congressional
Committee can't even they could ask ask the National Security Council to that. But
we literally know that there is no intelligence tasking for that level of group to
do the kind of study we're doing. It would have to show up.
You say, they publish, actually publish, you know, you know,
what are they what are they tasked to study terrorism? Certain types of terrorism,
certain types of threats. Since this isn't a threat by definition, it's
just like, okay, it's again another the systems from they deal with threats.
Nobody wants to classify this as even a potential threat. So it's going
to stay way down at this level of Oh, let's look at one at
it one a time, one at a time, and see if we can't
explain it, and if not, we'll just throw it in the bucket.
Right, So there's never a point of collection that could absolutely long term.
Yeah, absolutely, yeah, you can't. You can't see patterns of activity
if you're looking at it one at a time. Well, right, it's
like kicking pieces of a jigsaw puzzle and looking at each piece separately, and
then when you don't find an immediate piece that fits the next to put it
together, well just put that aside. Now let's look at the next singular
piece. You're never gonna be able to put the jigsaw puzzle together, is
what I'm saying. If you're only examining one piece at a time and then
not keeping it on the table along with the other pieces. Right, I
mean, well, and you don't know what is anomalous and what isn't.
Let let's let's take it. This is a radical example, but just to
give an example before nine to eleven, Okay, if and the FBI was
the FBI actually was in touch with flight schools. If someone had been doing
a long term study and asked themselves a question, how many private citizens have
walked in to pay for lessons on flying a heavy aircraft, a heavy commercial
aircraft, and that individual had no affiliation with a you know, commercial company,
a nation States military. If they had been looking at as a pattern,
it would have immediately popped out to them that there was a problem because
this and they should have investigated it. And so you've got to have a
long term set of data so you can see the anomalies. That's another important
part of what we're doing because one of the things at that point you'd say,
well, wait a minute, it was like this for ten years and
suddenly this year it's like that, what changed? What's going on? Something's
happening, what is it? Without without that long term study, you'll never
see those kind of anomalies. Right, So continuing on, though, what
specifically did this did this paper that you recently published, what did we do?
Yeah, what did you do? What we did this third paper?
So the first two papers looked strictly at reports from military facilities, military installations,
whether they were atomic related or conventional or weapons testing facilities like White Sands.
First two papers were focused on the military. We decided that we were
comfortable that we had a technique in a database that sea patterns if they were
there. So now we're engaged in a two part study looking at what happened
with the public, not the military, during the same study, during the
same period of time. So we switched to reports that are coming in from
what we referred to as the public domain. You know, what was the
public reporting and even if it was you know, it can be a military
person in a public venue, you know, they're just not on a military
So what was the public scene? What were what was happening? Did the
types of activities change, did the locations change? And basically the study that
we just published is a pattern study over this same period of time in terms
of what was happening with public reports, and we did find some major patterns
pop out of that. Patterns that were quite different from the military. So
one of the things we did is we look for those patterns and then we
compared the patterns in the public domain reports with the military domain, so we
could kind of beat them against each other and say, well, was there
really something different going on with the public and if so, you know,
what's it going on consistently all the time. As it turns out, a
major thing that the study revealed was no, there was a shift. It's
in the graphs. It's as clear as you could possibly imagine that the UAP
activity shifted from the military domain, a focus on the military domain, to
a focus on the public and to activities like close and close approaches loitering.
Basically a shift to UAP interest in individuals and small groups of observer of public
observers, and actually shifted in geographically from all the areas of the military base
is too fascinating. It shifted from west to east to the upper Midwest and
upstate New York. M Okay. So yeah, you have a location shift,
you have definite change. So you don't have a I mean, because
the public could observe things that are around a military base, right, do
you have like you just have a complete geographical shift. Is the nature of
these things. You're good, sorry, right for against Sure the public,
the public could have reported something over Albuquerque, New Mexico and San Dia Base,
or over uh you know the Panax plant outside of Amarello where we assemble
atomic weapons. Now, sure the public could could have reported that. Uh
they didn't, I mean not only did not the person. Well, now
that the locations didn't report it, the public didn't report it. The public
the public reports are It's not a matter of neither the public or the military
saw things over military facilities. With one great exception, and this is the
one exception that continued throughout the course of the study. Wherever the most modern
and the most capable and the most dangerous atomic weapons are located, that's where
UAP activity continued. So, for example, you didn't see UAP activity at
the early Atlas missile silos where you saw them or the Titan missile side of
those facilities went away, missiles shut down. But just in terms of geography,
the bases across the North and the Dakotas, the northern tier bases,
that activity continued. So it pretty clearly shows that UAP activity followed the missiles,
which is a pretty interesting thought. So okay, at least you've come
up with some patterns here, and obviously there's a lot more in the study.
And they can read this again by going to one of the websites that
have described and also will provide the links for explore SCU dot org. By
the way, is the main hub for your organization? Is that correct?
Right? Okay? And it looks like coming up in May, all right,
in Huntsville, Alabama, May thirty first to June second. There is
going to be a bit of a conference too, So our annual conference will
have a lot of speakers on the topic. I mean, we will be
presenting our studies as well, but we have a lot of speakers on the
topic in general and what's going on even from internationally. And I think again
for your listeners, there is a it is a virtual it's in person and
virtual as well, so it's possible to log in and follow the whole conference
virtually. There is a there is a fee, of course, but it's
a both both in person and virtual, and we an interesting We have a
couple of speakers and in addition to ours our presentation on this study, our
national security advisor will be going presenting a speech on doing a presentation again related
to national security and UAPs and what's going on in that arena and how it
should be dealt with, maybe not how it is being dealt with. So
this aspect of national security will come into the conference in a couple of places,
But it's not all about that. A lot of it is just literally
about the phenomena, how to deal with the phenomena, who should be studying
it, academia, who should be studying and you know, the overall phenomena.
So I don't want to give the wrong impression. It's not just about
what we're talking about here. It's much broader than that, right right.
I mean, obviously there's going to be a lot more in the conference.
I mean, are there any particular names that you already know that are that
are booked, that are confirmed, that that you want to point out as
highlights here? Well, the names probably would. I mean, these are
I think all of our speakers are keynote speaker are whole doctorates. They are
professionals. They are scientific professionals. They come from the hard sciences, from
physics, they come from the softer sciences, psychology. You know that,
so you might not recognize the names because in all honesty, we're not focusing
on some of the subjects that are commonly covered in m UAP podcasting for that
matter. I mean, there are dozens of speakers that focus on that subject
and are really wrapped up and sent maybe the more sensational aspects of the phenomena.
And that's just what we that's what we don't do. But Perfect or
the organization all obvious is the names. If you look at the names,
it'd probably be better if it's interested to look at the names and look at
what they're you know, what their expertise is, rather than me throughout the
name, because you're probably not going to recognize it. No fair enough,
but look and it's also to my mind, perfect because a problem that was
experienced with the release of your book Unidentified was that it fit into a genre
but was atypical from what is generally perceived as you know, the latest new
thing that's like a hot item, really really strange. Unidentified is not like
you know, about alien abductions and little green men. It is about the
national security response. Two, it's very similar to what this whole organization does.
Is that book that. I'm pretty sure you weren't part of that organization
till after you published this book. Yeah, that's right. As a matter
of fact, that this whole intention study grew out of something that I brought
up in the book, kind of like would it be possible to do this?
And the book actually one of the things that the book does is to
use this same technique to say, oh, during the nineteen forties and fifties,
could it have been the Russians? Because everybody thought maybe it was the
Russians. And the fun thing in the book was to go use the same
techniques and say was it And the conclusion is, no, it wasn't and
it couldn't have been. We just kind of carried that on. So it
it was somewhat of the genesis of this project. Right. And the other
interesting thing here is that, look, it's atypical in that, like the
way to get public interest in this might have been, Look, this is
possibly the Russians, And how did the Russians get it? Well, you
know what, the Russians might have acquired assets post World War two? Right,
whatever the Russian word is for paper clip? Here we go, right,
you know, we got Werner von Braun, they got other people.
This is the results of it. Even if you presented that as a possibility
right for your book and followed that tract that might have been you know the
key here, right, that would be typical of that genre, let's say,
right, But that's not where you went. You went into this is
what we know, by the way, being a Storian as per usual regarding
the reactions of the national skill. I mean, look, don't take this
the wrong way, Larry, but this is rather typical of Larry Hancock.
What is the national security reaction? What is going on here while these other
events are taking place? Does this sound familiar? Yet? It does because
you know in the military actions, in covert and overt actions regarding the intelligence
communities, in assassinations, you have focused on this. This It makes perfect
sense. This is exactly what I would expect. If I never heard of
any of this and somebody told me Larry Hancock is going to explore this,
I would say, Oh, he's going to go after what is the National
security apparatus doing? Behaving like, what is it doing that's resulting in other
actions taking place? What is the effect that the National security apparatus has on
the government has on the public. This would be Larry Hancock's wheelhouse, you
know he is. And I guess maybe the loosest way of think of it
is kind of like, so what are they doing as compared to what they're
saying they're doing? You know, what's the public story? And then what
do the documents tell us that there is the real story? Right? So
yeah, that's that's pretty repetitive. I've got to say there's a theme there.
There's kind of this theme to your writing, Larry. I'm not saying
that you lack imagination, because you don't. What I'm saying is that you
are very focused on exactly this, which is super important. So I'm going
to ask you it's totally uh out of the box question here, and we're
going to bring this to a close because I've kept Larry long enough for tonight.
But I think the point has been made and I look forward to continuing
this inquiry as we go forward, because I think it's uh, I think
it's really very it's really quite valuable to explore this. Yes, it's fun
to look at is the whistleblower telling you the truth about the alien bodies and
all that? But let's let's bring it. Pardon the punt back down to
earth? Okay, what is it that we got a deal with here regarding
the actions? And by the way, there's other contexts to be offered here.
If this is the way this is being handled, what other unconventional threats
don't have a point of proper collection? You know? Is there potential for
other things like this going on? What do you think about that? As
just a loose thought here, Larry, I mean, does this mean that
maybe just maybe certain questions need to be asked maybe some people that could inspire
you know, the use of creation of a sub agency or something like that.
I mean not saying that we need the X files, but for God's
sakes, we need something. Well, even from a more yeah, from
a more practical standpoint. One of the things that popped out of these studies
is, let's say a Navy group off San Diego has a up encounter.
Okay, Let's say it's four or five Navy ships. They're in a training
exercise and suddenly they're approached by several dozen drones and I don't know where they
came from. Now, the real question, the question nobody has answered,
is is there a national security response to that or does it just set within
the Navy. You know, let's say the same thing happened off the East
coast. Is there really a national security mechanism to reach out, grab that,
profile it and go, oh, we need a national defense against these,
You know, we need an air defense system that's optimized for these.
Right now, we have a system that's operator set up for missile defense,
honestly, and we have missile interceptors in Alaska and California. We don't have
a national defense network for low altitude, low speed drones. Is anybody really
tackling that at the level of national command authority? Among all the services?
We know they're each developing their own anti drone systems, but who's putting together
the drone defense network? And Lord only knows. We see in both Russia
and Ukraine that you need it. So I think it's a very relevant question
for national security. Do these reports just do the Navy reports stay within the
Navy and the No RED reports stay within No Red? To the homeland reports
of drones over atomic power plants? Where did they go? And the question
is what, not only where, but how far up do they go?
And where's the response? I don't think I've seen any article on a national
anti drone defense network, lots of articles about what the services are doing to
protect troops and ships and maybe some installation ones, but you know, there's
nothing. How who How does it get up? How does it get elevated
as a national priority? I don't know? Right? Fair enough? And
look again to the much broader and you know, let's just say less refined,
look at this, one could easily ask the question. And I think
it's a responsible thing to ask and a necessary thing to ask when a newer,
exotic or less than conventional something appears, right, I mean, there
needs to be a way to deal with it. I mean I can't put
this in any simpler terms. You have to have a mechanism. You have
to have something to answer for when something unexpected shows up, the potential for
again an exotic technology, something that was not thought of before, you know,
I mean at a certain point, if you go back in time to
use the radio might have not been thought as a military you know mechanism,
right, Radio in and of itself might have been not kept track of very
well. As a matter of fact, you can see an evolution of how
radio was used about broadcasts later on, you know, they figured out ways
to piggyback things onto broadcast television, broadcasts that contained other ways of information.
The only reason why these things don't become extremely lethal, weaponized, you know
tools, when it comes to the defense of a nation, it is because
they prepare for it. They foresee this, They collect information when something emerges,
and it gets evaluated, it gets handled, it gets developed into what
we got to be able to deal with. You know, at a certain
point, the military didn't utilize air you know, we didn't have planes,
right, We still had a military, but we didn't have planes. So
when things started to fly, you had to adjust to that. You had
to know about it. Now that doesn't seem very exotic nowadays because it's extremely
commonplace, but at one point it wasn't. Right, So there is a
need to continuously evolve as threats evolved. Or am I oversimplifying this, Larry,
Yeah, there's and maybe maybe it's being done. But the point is,
at this point in time, it's going to be a matter of how
quickly can you learn because four years ago, nobody, I'm sure in either
Russia or Ukraine would have realized that their entire infrastructure was at risk to small
devices that fly at different altitudes and only a few hundred miles an hour at
best. Now, you look around our country and the problem is, to
a large extent, these devices are deniable. By the way, you don't
know who sent them. Who you know you can immediately put your you can
there now, okay, But what if one afternoon every major hydro electric dam
in our country received you know, five drone strikes with high explosives on it
and took out the backbone of our hydro power generation. You know, that's
not to be a scare monger, but the point is that should be a
threat that someone is looking at. Now. You aps may not be a
threat, okay, but that doesn't mean there aren't aerial devices that are threats.
So now I think I think the real answer to your your point there,
Chuck, is that is to look at the process and question if the
process is flexible enough to deal with with emergent technologies, if you were emergent
threats, if you were and I don't know, the standard thing is always,
well, you're planning, you're planning to defend against the threats from the
last war, right, I mean, that's that's a standard mantra and you're
fighting the last war now and you're behind the curve. I would just I
would just not want to be in that position again. But I'm not reading
those articles in the defense journals or you know, how how do we deal
with this as a national issue, because that really is why Congress. Congress
really created this group, not to look for aliens. They looked for foreign,
new and novel foreign threats and get a hold on them because they weren't
certain that anybody was doing it right. The Intelligence Committee there, I got
to tell you, behind the scenes, I honestly don't think and the skiffs
and in the classified briefing sessions, they're not talking about et No, they're
talking about a totally different type of threat. No. And as you said,
look, the military could be prepared like it was. I mean,
look, drone technology. This is a very important thing because it's not the
fact that drones are new. They're very old. Indeed, there's been drones
in different unmanned aerial aircrafts and things like this for decades, many decades in
use. But the fact is that stuff that might have been previously thought of
as almost toys at best of public nuisance, right, people were going around
with drones with cameras on them in the private sector, stuff like this,
hobbyists right, involved in drone stuff. And yeah, of course there's big
planes that could be unmanned, but no, the fact that these very small,
very tiny, almost undetectable in some cases weapons could be deployed. I
mean this has become a significant factor in Ukraine slash Russia and that conflict recently.
A few years ago. If you would have said this to somebody publicly
that people were going to be using, Like if we went back, say
twenty years and said, look, you know these little toys you see,
you know, they'd be great weapons, they might think you were crazy because
you don't see that in public. Now, that doesn't necessarily mean the military
is not protecting, you know, preparing for it and protecting against it.
But we don't see it, and we certainly don't see the collection of information
being handled on the particular issue that you're studying being handled properly. Now,
is there a possibility that there is, you know, very super secretive something
going on, Well, I guess so. I mean there's always hidden elements
of the operational end of the intelligence community, right, So I mean it's
possible, but right now we don't see anything publicly that shows that they're taking
the potential for exotic threats. Forget about the off world you know issues here,
but other unidentified aerial phenomena could be a serious problem. I mean,
that is the overall point. And you know you're doing it on the civilian
side, but it would be nice to see that demonstrated on the military side
and you know, institutions of the intelligence community, et cetera. Right,
I mean, that's the thing that just struck me is it's actually not encouraging
to have someone from ar GO come on board and say the good news is
we've identified these things and you know they're not alien spacecraft their enemy drones.
Like wait a minute, was that the good news? That's the good news?
Yeah, that's that's a little rough. And anyway, like you said,
the names might not be recognizable at this upcoming conference, but you can
sign up for it online and I will give you the link to go learn
more and sign up for it again. It's a explore scu dot org.
Now, if you type in slash about dash one, you'll go to the
twenty twenty four conference page and you'll see Yeah, a lot of names that
you might not recognize at all, but the different contributing members, speakers,
et cetera, have all sorts of interesting yes, doctorates and all that.
But also you know you're looking at physicists, astronomers, astrophysicists, you're looking
at let's see, there's a journalist and author. You know, there's a
science, communications, sciences, various people involved in various sciences and different disciplines
all coming together in this twenty twenty four AAPC conference, which by the way
stands for Anomalists Aerospace Phenomena. Okay, that's the AAP part of it,
and the c IS conference. So the twenty twenty four AAPC conference again through
the SCU okay, which one more time is this scientific Coalition for UAP study
and all of that through Larry Hancock, and you can follow Larry at larrydish
Hancock dot com. Of course, you can also click and go see his
blog. Links to all of these things that I have just mentioned will be
in with the show notes and at the live chatroom at o'chelly dot com.
And again I recommend all of Larry's books, all of the ones I see
published. I own all of them and urge you to do the same,
whether it's in digital or physical form. I prefer the physical books, which
is why I keep saying he takes up a lot of space on my bookshelf.
But he's not just taking up space. He's definitely done a lot of
great work. And I thank you again for being on the Ocelli effect.
Larry. We'll see again in two weeks and we might continue this inquiry,
right which you know, the new thematic title will now be you know,
unidentified, just like Larry's book, except this will be the continuous inquiry.
So and I think we should get credit check because like it's a word,
there's no acronym, right, I mean, we've reduced this whole subject down
to one word, So we should get points exactly unidentified with Larry Hancock.
Maybe that's that's the best way to go unidentified the series. So this is
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