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You're listening to KFI AM six forty
on demand. Welcome to the Doctor Wendy

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Walls Show on I AM six forty. We live everywhere on the iHeartRadio app.

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So if you're new to my show, you should know. I have

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a PhD in clinical psychology. I
have written three books on relationships. I'm

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totally obsessed with the science of love
and Oh I became engaged two weeks ago.

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Yes, I found the love of
my life. Took me, I

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think, half a century to actually
figure it out, which follows my theory

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that relationships are far more about skill
than they are luck. You can learn

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how to have healthy relationships. Unfortunately, so many of us had a start

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in life which gave us kind of
a faulty model for love. You know,

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I'd like to say that we all
have that love is not about pleasure,

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it's not about happiness. It's about
finding the familiar. And what is

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familiar to us is a combination of
the kind of relationship we had with our

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father, the kind of relationship we
had with our mother, and the kind

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of relationship we witnessed between the two
of them. I mean, what could

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go wrong there? Right? And
then we go out into the mating marketplace,

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and we have this idea of love, and we think everyone else has

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the same idea of love that we
do. And if our idea of love

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is filled with pain, criticism,
loss, anger, or we'll go find

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that, We'll go find that.
You know. This week, I want

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to tell you a story of two
different two year old boys that I saw

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within a twenty four hour period.
The reason why they stuck in my brain

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so much is they actually looked so
much alike. One I saw at a

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family holiday party. Another I saw
the next day at a restaurant, and

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they looked so like I was doing
a double take to think, like,

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was that the little boy I saw
last night at that party, and then

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realized, oh wait, he's with
a different family. Probably not so.

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The one at the family party was
being held by somebody almost the whole night,

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except when he was in his high
chair. I watched someone feeding him

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and he was saying, yes,
I want that, No, I don't

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want that. He was being respected, he was being paid attention to,

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he was given love, and I
thought to myself, what an idyllic childhood.

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Now, be careful if you think
you're hearing from me that, Oh

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well, that kid is being spoiled. I'm not talking about being spoiled.

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I'm talking about being respected. If
you're hungry, you deserve to eat.

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If you don't like to eat that, you can eat something else. He's

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not asking for candy, just different
broccoli versus carrots, you know. And

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the other little boy I first heard
before I saw because I was waiting in

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line to get into this fast foodish
restaurant and this kid was screaming, And

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I'm like, who is this kid
needing all this attention? And I look

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over and I see a mother literally
mentally checked out. She is not even

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looking at her child. He's reaching
with his hands up, he's around her

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legs. She's busy looking at her
phone and doing other things. She also

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has three other kids, one the
oldest son looked to be about twelve,

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and the other kids also ignoring this
child. This child is screaming for attention.

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Now my heart is in my throat
because I'm like, I know everything

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that I know about attachment theory,
and I'm like, oh my god,

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unmet needs, unmet needs, Oh
my gosh. And so eventually I saw

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them sitting in a booth at a
table, and I thought, OK,

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good, he's calm now. They've
given him a bottle which he was holding

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himself. Nobody was feeding him,
and then he crawled over to his older

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brother's lap. He sat on the
lap and he reached his arms up around

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his older brother's neck, looking for
comfort, looking for care. His older

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brother ignored him. He had his
hands down at his side. He didn't

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even take his arms to encircle around
the back of this little two year old

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with his knees on his thighs.
I was like, what is going on

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here? And I realized this is
how a family trains someone to have an

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emotionally avoidant attachments down Now, I
could go either way. Of course,

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this little child could grow up like
eventually, the mother's probably like, you

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know what if we just ignore it, eventually, it's going to stop,

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and he's gonna be fine. He's
gonna learn he can't take tantrums in public,

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and he can't whine, and he's
just gonna learn. Right now,

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it could go that he could grow
up and become somebody who has trouble connecting

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with others because he realized that asking
for care, intimate emotional care didn't work,

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didn't matter. Or he could grow
up to be the needy, whiny,

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demanding. It never feels like his
whole can be filled with the amount

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of love and attachment that he needs. We don't know what his neurochemistry is.

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We don't know if he's going to
have an anxious attachment style or an

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avoidant attachment style. We don't know. But that other kid that was getting

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all the love and attention, I'll
tell you that feels good to him.

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Love isn't about finding pleasure. Love
is about finding the familiar. So last

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night I did not go to the
Heiress tour. You know what I'm talking

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about. I'm not a Swift ye
Taylor Swift. I didn't understand the hype.

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I don't know the hype. So
last night I watched the entire concert.

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When we come back, I'm going
to talk about what I believe is

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Taylor Swift's anxious attachment style has told
through her lyrics and also how I think

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she's healing. Now you're listening to
The Doctor Andy Walls Show and KFI AM

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six forty were live everywhere on the
iHeartRadio. You're listening to KFI AM six

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forty on demand KFI AM six forty. You have Doctor Wendy Walsh with you.

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This is the Doctor Wendy Walsh Show. Now, before I talk about

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Taylor Swift, let me start by
telling you that I have recovered from an

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anxious attachment disorder thanks to the help
of a good therapist. Also my attachment

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to my children because I did practice
attachment parenting responding to them, which helped

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me have a secure attachment, and
also learning literally making changes and making different

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kinds of decisions. So I'm probably
the only person in America who am not

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necessarily a fan of Taylor Swift.
I'm not really familiar with her art.

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I didn't go to the Airis Tour. I've been reading about her and that

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Travis guy. I think he's like, plays football or something. But last

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night my fiance Julio said, you
need to watch her Concervata. You need

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to see the whole concert of the
aristour. Now, I like to watch

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TV with the subtitles on because sometimes
I don't hear everything or some attention whatever.

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I like to read as well as
I hear. So I had the

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subtitles on and I'm listening to Taylor
Swift's lyrics, and I'm paying attention,

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and I'm looking through a lens of
attachment theory, and I'm thinking, oh,

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my goodness, I think this young
woman has had an anxious attachment disorder

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all through her twenties. But then
when it gets to her last album,

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Midnights, which was done just last
year in twenty twenty two, all of

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a sudden, I see an opening, an awakening, some insight, some

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understanding, some growth, and maybe
even some healing. Now, if you're

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like me and you haven't been really
familiar with Taylor Swift's career, I'll just

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tell you a few things about her. She came out with her first album

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back in two thousand. She was
only sixteen years old. That makes her

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thirty four now, and she's had
ten albums. This huge World to Well

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American tour she's heading to Asian X
at the Eras tour r as different eras

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of her life. Get it?
Actually, I think is one of the

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largest selling concert tours of all time. It just topped a billion billion dollars

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along the tour route. She was
such a nice woman that one day she

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anybody who was on the tour group
with them, from sound technicians to lighting

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guys, to background dancers, to
makeup artists to Rodi's who load equipment.

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She decided to give every single person
on the tour one hundred thousand dollars each

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as a little tip, thanking them
for what they've been doing. I mean

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that cost her millions of dollars.
It's okay, she made like a billion,

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but this is life changing for many
of these people. Now. You

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might also not know that back in
twenty nineteen, Taylor Swift was a baller.

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Literally. She spoke out at Billboard's
Women and Music Awards. She was

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given like the Performer of a Decade
award, and she spoke out literally trash

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talking against Scooter Braun. He's the
manager of Justin Bieber and Arianna Grande.

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If you don't remember, here's what
she said, and that is the unregulated

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world of private equity coming in and
buying up our music as if it is

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real estate, as if it's an
app or a shoe line. This just

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happened to me without my approval,
consultation, or consent. After I was

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denied the chance to purchase my music
outright, my entire catalog was sold to

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Scooter Braun's Ithica Holdings in a deal
that I'm told was funded by the Soros

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Family, twenty three Capital, and
the Carlisle Group. Yet to this day,

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none of these investors have ever bothered
to contact me or my team directly

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to perform their due diligence on their
investment, on their investment in me,

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to ask how I might feel about
the new owner of my art, the

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music. I wrote videos, I
created photos of me, my handwriting,

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my album designs. And of course
Scooter never contacted me or my team to

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discuss it prior to the sale or
even when it was announced. I'm fairly

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certain he knew exactly how it would
feel about it, though, all right,

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So she was definitely a little angry, and Scooter got a little nervous,

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so he immediately wanted to flip sell
that real estate he'd bought, which

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include the masters of four of her
albums, So he sold it to Shamrock

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Holdings for four hundred and five million. Apparently, according to the Internet.

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He told the people at Shamrock,
don't involve Taylor Swift, don't reach out

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to her, but they did.
They wanted to partner with her in some

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way. When she found out that
Scooter was making so much money off her

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masters, you know what she said, she actually put her letter on the

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Internet out to her fans called Swifties, saying I'm sorry you people in Shamrock,

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Canter Timmy. You seem really nice
and I'd like to do business with

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you. But if any piece who's
going to Scooter Braun were not dealing,

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Apparently they wanted her to sign a
non disclosure agreement while they were in negotiations,

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and she was unallowed to say anything
bad about Scooter for the rest of

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her life. And she said,
no one's going to take my voice away.

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And you know what, I'm just
going to re record those four albums

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and put them out again and tell
my fans buy mine, not Scooters.

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And that's what this baller did.
The four albums are Fearless read Speak Now

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in nineteen eighty nine, and in
brackets they say Taylor's version, Taylor's version.

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And those fans saved her. They
went out and bought her just she

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sang the same song again, made
the album again because she owns her own

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voice. He might have owned the
masters, but she owned the publishing and

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the thing songs that she wrote.
Her female fans are super loyal. I

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watched them on that documentary last night. They were crying and I realized our

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young women in America all suffering and
anxious attachment style, because every one of

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her songs is about not love but
unrequited love, the pain of not being

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able to acquire love. When we
come back, let's break down some of

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Taylor's lyrics. And the good news
is I think she's healing and maybe Travis

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Kelsey might be the beneficiary of it
all. You're listening to the Doctor Wendy

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Walls Show on KFI AM six forty
Belive everywhere on the iHeartRadio app. You're

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listening to KFI AM six forty on
demand. Okay, Hi, Ams forty,

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you have Doctor Wendy Walsh with you. This is the Doctor Wendy Wells

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Show. Okay. So I watched
the documentary. I don't know which streamer

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it's on. It's the Airas Tour
with Taylor Swift, and I could not

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believe the lyrics. Now she has
come out saying that people criticized her because

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it seems like all her songs are
about the same theme. But during the

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eighteen years that I lived with an
anxious attachment style where I would pine after

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playboys and people who didn't call back, who treated me poorly who when I

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brought up an emotionally tender topic would
be dismissive or laugh at my feelings.

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That's the only note I knew.
That's the only music I could sing too.

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Although I wanted to have a healthy, happy, secure relationship, my

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attachment, my actual romantic attachment style, was wired for loss. I remember

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writing poetry one time and there was
a line in it this stuck with me.

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I was like, I think I
was hosting extra at the time.

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I was like, I don't know, the twenties, early thirties or something,

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and I wrote there was a line
of the poem that I said,

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I hate to see you go,
but you're cutest from behind, meaning really,

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I'm attracted to you when you leave
me. Now, you could say

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why, doctor Wendy, Why.
I think, after spending lots of years

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with a therapist, it has to
do with the fact that my dad was

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in the Navy, and he was
gone all the time and back and forth

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in a very inconsistent way, and
I was always longing for him. We

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don't know why Taylor Swift might ever
have an anxious attachment style. I'm not

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diagnosing her. I'm just giving you
my opinion. Because I think she represents

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some feelings that so many women have
today, even though she has what appears

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to be a doting dad. They
were at the football game together today in

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Foxboro, Massachusetts, where her boyfriend
lost. But that's good for her because

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she gets to console him. She
there are so many women out there who

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don't know what happened to them in
the first twelve months of life. Many

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well meaning, loving parents we're told
use the Ferber method. Let the baby

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cry it out, doctor, it's
good for their lungs. Yes, I'm

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sorry to interrupt, but they did
say that the Chiefs did win, so

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they oh they wanted today they did. Oh, that's not right. He

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lost the last two before and she
got to go to I saw this picture

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of the two of them walking out, and she got to like hold on

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her man's army. So sad,
And when you have an ancient detachment cell,

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that's like the best when they're not
like at the top of their game,

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when they're kind of feeling a little
low. Thank you. Okay,

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so he won, but they're not. Are they going to the super Bowl?

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We know? Is there a guy
there Roul? Yes, of course

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they're going to the super Bowl.
You don't know that. Julio says,

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there's not much of a chance,
is what he said. And I'll tell

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you what's on the line here for
this love relationship. She starts her tour

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of Asia, and she's going to
Japan, and she has a big concert

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on February tenth, and the next
day, February eleventh, is the super

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Bowl. So if she's hoping to
see her man, she's gonna have to

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get on a little private there and
get home as fast as possible if he's

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going to play. But now the
big test is if he doesn't go to

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the super Bowl, like his team
doesn't win and they don't go, does

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he go on tour with her to
Japan? To me, that's a litmus

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test if he doesn't show up in
Japan and he stays with his football buddies

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to see who wins the super Bowl
when he's not even playing in it.

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M I'm worried. All right.
Let's get back to some of her lyrics.

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These are words out of Taylor Swift's
poetry or song lyrics and her lips.

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I guess you didn't care, and
I guess I liked that m anxious

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attachment style. How about this,
you'll come back each time you leave,

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because, Darling, I'm a nightmare
dressed like a day dream. I know

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that one guy I date it once. A colleague of his said, she's

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very well packaged, but there's something
going on in there. H And then

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the highs right. It's a roller
coaster when you have an anxious attachment.

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You have these moments where you're like, oh, I got him, it's

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great. And she says, I
get so high every time you're loving me.

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She also says in another song that
was from Don't Blame Me, this

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song is called Gorgeous, There's nothing
I hate more than what I can't have,

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And from the song Cruel Summer,
devils roll the dice, angels roll

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their eyes. What doesn't kill me
makes me want you more. I used

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to be that girl. I used
to be the one who is like,

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he is not going to see me
sweat. He's not gonna know that.

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I care so much. I can
tolerate that it takes him two weeks to

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call me back, and I'll act
like I didn't even notice. Right.

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I want to remind you that there
are four stages to personal growth. The

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first is you're walking down the street, you don't see a hole that playboy,

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and you fall in. The Second
stage is you walk down the street,

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you see that hole, and you
still fall in. And I think

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that's what's happening now. She's now
seeing the hole, having some karma.

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She says in her song karma,
you're taking the Oh, I can't say

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that word s you know, word
for the hell of it? Oh?

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Can I even say that addicted to
betrayal? But you're relevant. You're terrified

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to look down because if you dare, you'll see the glare of everyone you

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burned just to get there. It's
coming back around. I think she's talking

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to herself. Think she's talking about
being afraid to see. And of course

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eventually she sings Lavender Hayes, talk
your talking, go viral. I just

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00:18:30.240 --> 00:18:33.400
need this love spiral. Get it
off your chest, Get it off my

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desk. Talk you're talking, go
viral, Get it off your chest,

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get it off my desk. She's
basically saying, I don't want this feeling.

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It feels terrible because she's doing the
work of introspection. Finally, stage

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three is where you walking down the
street, you see that hole, and

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this time you recognize it and you
very carefully walk around it. And that's

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when she sings, you're on my
own, kid, Oh, you're on

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your own kid. She realizes she's
on her own to learn from Sprinkler splashes

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to fireplace ashes right, talking about
from childhood to after the date and the

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fire dies down. I waited ages
to see you there. I searched the

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party of better bodies just to learn
you never cared. I can see the

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great escape so long I picked the
pedals. He loves me not, She

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realizes he loves me, he loves
me not. He loves me, he

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loves me not. That's the anxious
attachment style. But then she writes something

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different, bloomed, writing in my
room, I play my songs in the

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parking lot, I'll run away.
And finally she closes with mastermind and says,

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you see, all the wisest women
had to do it this way because

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we were born to be a pond
in every lover's game. And now she's

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saying she's using her mind, she's
developing and making different choices. Unfortunately she's

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dating an athlete. I'm just gonna
say, but he I'm from a good

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family whose parents stay together, so
maybe maybe he has some idea of how

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love should be. I don't know. I'm going to watch it closely.

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Note to Taylor when we come back, I'm going to tell you how you

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can tell if he's actually all in
ladies. If you're digging a guy and

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you're not sure if he's commitment oriented, I've got news for you. You're

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listening to the Doctor Wendy Wall Show
on KFI AM six forty with Live Everywhere

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on the iHeartRadio app. You're listening
to KFI AM six forty on demand AFI

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00:20:29.440 --> 00:20:32.720
AM six forty. You have Doctor
Wendy Walls with you. This is the

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00:20:32.759 --> 00:20:36.799
Doctor Wendy Wall Show. I've been
talking about Taylor Swift's lyrics and how they

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00:20:36.799 --> 00:20:41.359
are indicative of sort of that anxious, ambivalent kind of attachment style and the

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00:20:41.400 --> 00:20:47.000
ability to finally heal and realize that
you can choose something different, you can

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take another street, you don't have
to fall in those holes can be life

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00:20:52.559 --> 00:20:56.640
saving. It's the best feeling when
I eventually chose my Julio, somebody who

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I probably would have seen, if
not him, the kind of man like

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him many times in my life,
but I was unable to choose that.

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I found myself saying things like,
uh, you know, he's too nice,

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Like he's nice. You know,
he's a little too nice. I

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like them a little bad boy like
right, I would say things like I

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don't know, like if he's so
available and so nice to me, maybe

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he doesn't have self esteem, Maybe
he's the needy one. Right until I

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finally learned that when you meet a
healthy person and have a healthy attachment and

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have real emotional intimacy, you don't
have the roller coasters anymore. Do I

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miss the highs? No? Do
I miss the lows? No? No,

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no, no no. I love
the peace. He'ce is where you

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end up. I'm thinking that part
of Taylor's popularity is so many young women

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have a kind of anxious attachment style, and partly it's created by you know,

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00:21:59.160 --> 00:22:03.640
family of origins stuff, but also
because we're in this crazy mating marketplace

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where men are behaving very badly.
I'm sorry, but they are to young

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women and women you want to take
their time maybe and not have sex right

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00:22:15.000 --> 00:22:18.200
away some of them. But they're
being pressured. They're having to compete with

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00:22:18.240 --> 00:22:22.720
their slutty girlfriends or having to compete
with pornography. They're having to compete with

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00:22:22.759 --> 00:22:26.960
all the Instagram models out there that
in some way are satisfying the men out

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00:22:26.960 --> 00:22:33.839
there, and it's a shrinking portion
of men who are willing and able to

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00:22:33.839 --> 00:22:40.960
commit because they are so distracted by
the availability of choice, the availability of

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00:22:41.000 --> 00:22:45.839
potential mates for short term relationships.
So I think partly the mating marketplace is

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00:22:45.880 --> 00:22:49.839
training people. The other thing is, when I had my own kind of

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00:22:49.839 --> 00:22:55.839
anxious, ambivalent attachment style, I
didn't know what healthy looked like. If

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00:22:55.880 --> 00:23:00.279
there was a good, strong,
commitment oriented guy there, I didn't know

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how to recognize it. So I
want to go through my laundry list.

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00:23:03.079 --> 00:23:07.200
Remember I wrote a book back when
I was in the middle of my stuff

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00:23:07.400 --> 00:23:12.799
reading the research called the Boyfriend Test, How to Evaluate his potential before you

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00:23:12.880 --> 00:23:17.319
Lose your Heart. And the stuff
I said then is the stuff I say,

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Now, what do you look for? Well, number one, if

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00:23:21.839 --> 00:23:25.240
you're looking, if you're hoping this
is a commitment oriented guy, you want

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00:23:25.240 --> 00:23:30.240
to make sure that he prioritizes you. I said with Taylor and Travis,

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00:23:30.559 --> 00:23:33.200
if he's not in the super Bowl, he'd better be in Japan at her

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00:23:33.240 --> 00:23:37.559
show the night before super Bowl.
And if he's not, he's not making

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00:23:37.680 --> 00:23:45.039
her and this relationship of priority and
he's not ready right. Number two,

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00:23:47.440 --> 00:23:52.000
he's honest with his feelings. I
got to say this from the beginning of

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00:23:52.000 --> 00:23:56.640
my relationship with Julio, from a
very first coffee date, he was very

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00:23:56.839 --> 00:24:00.519
honest about his feelings. And if
you have not seen our wedding proposal,

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00:24:00.920 --> 00:24:06.440
the video is on my YouTube channel, doctor Wendy Walsh, and you can

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00:24:06.440 --> 00:24:10.920
see historian. You can see how
honest he was even then. So if

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00:24:10.960 --> 00:24:15.799
you're dating a guy and you're bringing
up tender topics and he feels uncomfortable or

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00:24:15.839 --> 00:24:18.960
he makes you feel weird, or
he laughs at you, or he changes

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00:24:18.000 --> 00:24:22.240
the subject because he can't go there, then do you really want to be

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00:24:22.680 --> 00:24:30.559
with this guy? Also, he
introduces you to his people. You see

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00:24:30.640 --> 00:24:33.000
guys that want Okay, the best
way to get a short term relationship,

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00:24:33.119 --> 00:24:37.519
ladies is to pretend that you want
a long term relationship. They say the

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00:24:37.599 --> 00:24:41.599
stuff, but do they really behave
that way? And if you want a

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00:24:41.640 --> 00:24:45.880
long term relationship, then you want
somebody who can be integrated in your world

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00:24:45.920 --> 00:24:49.000
with your people. So if he's
hiding you in a little compartment and you're

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00:24:49.039 --> 00:24:55.319
not meeting his friends and family and
business colleagues. Why what are you his

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00:24:55.440 --> 00:25:00.559
private little sex fantasy. Then this
is not a healthy relationship. You have

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00:25:00.640 --> 00:25:03.680
to meet his people. By the
way, one time I dated a guy

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00:25:03.039 --> 00:25:07.160
and I believed this whole theory that
you need to meet people because his people,

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00:25:07.279 --> 00:25:12.039
so that you'll know that he's commitment
oriented. So we go out to

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00:25:12.119 --> 00:25:18.920
this event and run into a bunch
of his work people and they all treated

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00:25:18.000 --> 00:25:22.400
him badly like he was a weirdo. And I was like, Ooh,

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00:25:22.039 --> 00:25:26.920
I've got to move away from this. They're sending me signals that this is

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00:25:26.960 --> 00:25:30.519
not the guy for me too.
All right, he talks about a future,

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00:25:30.880 --> 00:25:34.599
okay, if they say things like
if they're not talking about next summer,

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00:25:34.640 --> 00:25:37.519
we should do this, or oh
I hope I can take you skiing

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00:25:37.519 --> 00:25:41.160
sometime. We need to go.
Do you know if he's not saying those

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00:25:41.200 --> 00:25:44.920
things, he's not interested in being
there for the long term. But I

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00:25:44.920 --> 00:25:48.480
think the biggest one is that he
listens to you. When a man wants

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00:25:48.480 --> 00:25:52.319
a commitment from a woman, he
really takes time to listen, to really

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00:25:53.039 --> 00:25:59.839
listen. He actively engages and asks
questions, and he's curious about what you

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00:26:00.119 --> 00:26:04.519
feeling. Also, he's not a
control freak. He's willing to compromise for

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00:26:04.599 --> 00:26:10.279
you, So that is a huge
thing. You don't want to get in

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00:26:10.319 --> 00:26:14.440
a relationship with somebody who's calling the
shots all the time. And while he's

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00:26:14.440 --> 00:26:18.400
compromising for you, he's also supporting
your dreams and goals. He's understanding that

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00:26:18.440 --> 00:26:22.799
you're not just a you know,
an addendum to him, an attachment to

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00:26:22.880 --> 00:26:27.400
him and extension of him. You
are someone who's going somewhere yourself and he's

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00:26:27.440 --> 00:26:33.519
going to help support you in that. And finally, he communicates openly.

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He's able to talk about his values
and be open and honest. The bottom

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00:26:38.240 --> 00:26:44.720
line is it's even less about what
he says and much more about what he

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00:26:44.799 --> 00:26:49.359
does the action. Is he showing
up on time? Is he paying for

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00:26:49.440 --> 00:26:53.279
things at the beginning? Is he
making you a priority? This is a

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00:26:53.279 --> 00:26:57.880
guy who's showing that he can sacrifice
because you are so valuable to him.

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00:26:59.440 --> 00:27:00.720
Remember, lady, if you're in
those dating apps, you're not looking for

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00:27:00.720 --> 00:27:06.440
one hundred guys. You're looking for
the one, the one who really is

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00:27:06.559 --> 00:27:11.920
in to you. All right,
are you in a relationship When we come

356
00:27:11.920 --> 00:27:15.559
back, there's actually a new app
that, according to research, can make

357
00:27:15.599 --> 00:27:19.880
your relationship better in just thirty days. Woo. I downloaded that app as

358
00:27:19.880 --> 00:27:22.400
soon as I saw it. You're
listening to the Doctor Wendy Wall Show on

359
00:27:22.480 --> 00:27:27.839
KFI AM six forty. We're live
everywhere on the iHeartRadio app KFI AM six

360
00:27:29.000 --> 00:27:30.200
forty on demand