WEBVTT

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Thank you, Thank you. Welco
podcast joint host hoh as he discusses the

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rivting Netflix original series Black Mirror now
here he is broadcasting from the kind of

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studio. Welcome to Black Mirror Podcast
and as always I'm your host, ho

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host. How y'all's doing I hope
you're doing good. I really do.

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Today we are revisiting the Netflix interactive
movie Extraffic Ganga entitled Bandersnatch. Oh yeah,

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man, I'll tell you what.
This thing did not disappoint. It

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really didn't my first and by the
way, before we get into it too

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far, spoiler alert, we are
going to be talking about the movie,

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and we're going to be talking about
more than just a movie. Now.

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My first experience with an interactive movie. You really couldn't call it an interactive

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movie. I mean you really couldn't
because it was on VHS. So it

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was the movie Clue. It was
a murder mystery Who'd done it? Very

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fun movie, might I add,
but it was you watched the entirety of

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the movie, and then at the
end, because it was on VHS,

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you know you've only got rewind,
fast, forward, pause, stop,

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and play, and that is it. You don't have skip you don't have

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chapters, you don't have menus,
you got none of that. So it

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was you watched the movie and then
it gave you three possible endings and it

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was fun, don't get me wrong. And then it came out on DVD

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where you actually had the ability to
choose your ending, and it was it

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was phenomenal. It was amazing,
you know. So whenever I heard that

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Netflix Black Mirror was doing an interactive
movie, I was like, oh,

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this is going to be good.
And they definitely did not disappoint. I

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mean, they did not disappoint in
the least whatsoever. Now, the first

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time I watched this movie, I
went, I went full on geek,

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okay. I mean I'm sitting there
with a remote control in one hand and

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you know, a pen and paper, you know, a pad of paper

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in the other, and like I'm
writing down the questions or the the scenario

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and then my you know, the
options that you have, and then which

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direction I went. I mean I
wrote it all down, okay, because

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I went full on gee, full
on geek. And it didn't take me

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long to really regret that decision because
the amount of options, the amount of

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questions, the different directions that the
state can go was just staggering. I

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mean, holy cow, it was
staggering. But they had so many options

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in there. I mean, wow, they really did it, and it

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really was a fun time. Now
this time doing it, I mean I

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had, you know, the first
time watching this, I had the mindset

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of, you know, I was, Okay, let's do this the way

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I think I would do it,
you know, kind of navigating it that

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way. And then it went to
the point to where I'm just having fun

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with it and you know, we're
doing absurdity, and holy crap, it

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did not disappoint. Now I got
led down several different rabbit trails. I

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got led down, you know,
um possibilities that that kind of dead ended,

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and I want to explore more because
it gave you that option to back

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up things. And I was like, Okay, cool, let's explore this.

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And it ended up taking me quite
some time to watch this movie.

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I mean I spent over two hours. I mean I spent close to three

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hours the first time watching this movie. But this time around, I had

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a little bit different of a mindset, different goals. You know, I

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wanted to do this a little bit
more chaotically. I wanted to do this

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a little bit different. You know, I wanted to have you know,

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I wanted to see if I could
go down different paths and what would happen.

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And again it did not disappoint because
this time around, I mean I

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got I mean, I went a
little bit different. Please at me.

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Granted, I mean I ran into
a lot of the same stuff that I

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did last time. But the magic
is in the different types of endings that

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is embedded within this and holy crowd, there's a lot of them. I

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mean there's quite a few. I
mean, I had such a different type

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of an experience this time around.
Watching it was almost like watching a different

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movie altogether, you know. I
mean it was more like the difference of

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watching you know, the theatrical release
of Return of the King, you know,

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the last of the Lord of the
Rings movies, you know, the

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part three. You know that it
was a difference of watching the theatrical release

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versus watching the extended cut where they
added like fifty two additional minutes and it

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basically changed the feel of the entire
movie. I mean, that's what it

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felt like. That's more or less
what it was. And boy howdy,

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I mean it was it was awesome. I mean it really was. I

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could probably watch this thing again and
have a totally new experience. I mean

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not totally new, but enough knew
that it's like watching another movie. You

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know, so many differ from page
you can take absolutely amazing. And this

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time I spent you know, maybe
a little over two hours into it.

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I mean I spent you know,
quite a bit of time into it just

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going down to rabbit hole. I
mean, you really do kind of loose

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track of time watching this movie.
And I didn't the first time, and

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I didn't, you know, this
most recent time. You know, I

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didn't do like a clock, you
know, I didn't record what time I

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started and how long it took and
when I actually got finished, and you

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know, when the rabbit hole stuff
started happening to our I'm going down different

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paths and and everything else. Like, I didn't keep track of any of

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that, and I really should have, you know, just to get an

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idea, because this second time watching
it afterwards, I got this, you

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know, I got this question.
It's like, how how long is this

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puppy? You know, That's what
the question was. It was like how

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long is this movie? I mean, how much time did they actually take

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how much actual movie is their foot
is this, that and the other?

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And so I had to look it
up, you know, I had to

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know the answer to this question.
So I looked it up, and what

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I found was, you know,
not granted, you know, depending on

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the region that you're at, you
know, may determine different you know,

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things and run times, and it
does vary. But according to a thing

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that I've found in the wikipedias,
you know, it was a Korean something

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or another, and its official run
time at the time of release, you

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know, back in December, I
believe of twenty eighteen, was like five

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hours and twelve minutes. Holy cow, that's a long freaking movie. And

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I can believe it, man,
I can't believe it. Watching this movie

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twice, going through the options,
going through the rabbit holes, and doing

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my best to just explore the movie
and what it had to offer, the

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different outcomes and possibilities that were there. I believe it. Five hours and

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twelve minutes. It does not seem
like it's outside the realm of possibility.

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Now Here's the thing though, too. Researching this, like, I come

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to find out that there was even
more that they threw into this that didn't

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even make the movie. It was
you know, ideas and concepts that they

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you know, had some of which
they actually filmed but didn't actually make it

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into the final cut of the movie. And of which case it was like

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wow, you know, I mean
they did even more with this. It

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was it was just it was,
Holy Council, let's go ahead and get

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into the movie, all right,
because this this movie, it like Black

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Mirror, it did not disappoint.
You know, the the concept of the

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movie I found absolutely fascinating, no
other way to put it. I found

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it absolutely fascinating. Now Here,
here's the premise of this whole thing.

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Okay, you got this nineteen year
old kid whom gets um infactuated with this

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book. I believe this book belonged
to his mother. I don't remember on

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that. I think it belonged to
his mother. He found it, read

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the book, and this was an
interactive book. And this book was freaking

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huge. I mean, this book
was like Stephen King's it huge. You

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know. This thing was big,
two biblical proportions. Okay, see what

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I did there. Bible it's a
big book. So was this. And

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of course the book was entitled Bander
Snatch and you come to find out that,

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you know, the author of this
book, you know, kind of

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went he went, he went full
on Luna TUN's all right, he went

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crazy, all right, this book
doing this everything that it was going on.

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You know, the guy, the
guy went kind of crazy. You

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know, he went crazy to the
point to where he killed his wife.

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And a symbol popped up in this
and you kind of find this out a

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little bit later as far as a
symbolism into this, but it was also

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a roll back in easter egg to
another movie I believe it was entitled White

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Bear, and it had a specific
significance in this movie. It really did

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you know, the options the A
or B that this that the the the

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braintree or the mind tree of how
he mapped out never mind, never mind

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what We'll get into that a little
bit later. Okay, But this book

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was huge. And the aspect of
this book that the kid found extremely fascinating

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was, you know, it was
an interactive choose your path book. You

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know, to read this thing cover
to cover wouldn't make any sense whatsoever,

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because you get the points in the
book where it's like, you know,

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you can choose this and of which
case turned to this page or you choose

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this and you turned to this page, you know, and I've read books

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like this, you know, like
I remember back in school they had interactive

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books like this, or I think
they were more like like maybe not necessarily

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like like book book, just words. I mean they were you know,

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picture books, comic books, you
know, what have you. I mean,

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they were, they were neat,
they were entertaining. It was pretty

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sneak and awesome, it was.
They were. They were great because it

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made you part of the story,
you know, and that was the that

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was the awesome part of it.
But this author took that concept to a

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whole new level and he went he
went crazy with the with the possibilities and

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whatnot, you know. And so
this kid decided that he was going to

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make a video game, groundbreaking,
never been done type of a video game,

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you know, new technology type of
thing. I mean, there was

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innovation going on in here. I
mean there really was, you know,

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not just how a typical game has
run, but something that you can play

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with a controller, which at the
time was had never been done before.

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I mean, it truly was a
groundbreaking innovative video game that he was making,

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not just a computer game, but
a video game. Very very awesome

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concept, and he wanted to give
honor to the book and have it structured

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the same way to where you were
the one who was choosing the path of

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this and as you can imagine,
it got out of control. Now this

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might have been and I didn't put
two and two together until, you know,

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just you know, after watching the
movie. But you know, I

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was, I dabble in computer programming. I write, you know, I

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do some Python stuff. I've done
a little bit of stuff in C sharp

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and whatnot, and I dabble,
okay, And one of the things that

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I was that I was doing and
have been working on, is an interactive

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action adventure game. And of which
case I was going to model it more

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or less after the Organ Trail,
very old school game that was on three

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point five inch floppy or maybe it
was the four and a half, the

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bigger floppy disks, you know,
but it was something done on you know,

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MS DOS type of the game.
You know, and if you've ever

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played Organ Trail, you know,
one of the ways that you die,

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you know, a lot a reoccurring
death that most everybody has is dying of

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dysentery. I don't know what the
heck doesn't Terry is I was young.

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I was a kid. I was
in you know, elementary school and junior

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high playing this game. I had
no idea. I just died of dysentery.

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It's like, holy crap. Now
I got to start over from the

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beginning and do this again, you
know. And that was the model that

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I had whenever I was you know, started programming this game. And the

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rabbit Hole, holy crap. So
I can feel for what this kid was

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going through whenever he was right in
this game, you know. Now,

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I decided that the only way to
win this game was to go through the

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most absurd, never going to work
type of scenario. Otherwise, if you

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didn't choose that path, everybody died
of dysentery, all right, because apparently

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in Oregon Trail they were infactuated with
Terry Crews and Dis and him caused your

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death. And so I'm like,
that's how everybody dies in my action adventure

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video game or action adventure ms DOS
game, dis and Terry play on words.

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I know, bad dad joke,
whatever. Don't hate me. It

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was fun, all right, But
I get the rabbit Hole and the Stephen.

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You know the issues that Stephen was
having programming this game, because he

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would do this, He would do
that. He would work out, you

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know, work out this line of
options, go to this line of options,

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and this line of options, and
so many options in here, so

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many different directions. You know,
he would add a new this and then

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just break the entire game, you
know, and death, you know,

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I mean it was just that the
game kept crashing. He had issues with

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it because and you know, at
the end you see the the brain treat

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of this game and all the pages
that is on the wall and on the

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ceiling and in notebooks and everything else. I mean, holy crap, this

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kid spent so much time working on
this week, all the different avenues and

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roads that you can go down.
Holy cow, it's no wonder he went

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a little loopy and lost his freaking
mind. I mean, holy cow.

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And it's like through watching the movie, you know, I mean, some

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things happened, okay, and he
uh through the movie, through the adventure

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that you're going on one of the
paths that you can take, or I

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guess several of the paths that you
can take. You know, it leads

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you down the path of you know, enlightenment to where and this is what

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the Stephen says that the protagonist the
game creator. You know, this is

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what he is saying, as in, the only way to really do this

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game and not you know, just
lose your mind with it, is realizing

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that it's not about all the choices
and the possibilities that you can do,

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because what you need to do is
it give the player the illusion of choice

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whenever the outcome is truly set by
me, the game creator. Blew my

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mind. Holy crap, that is
just whoa you know, and it brought

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a whole new light into this movie
that no matter what I chose, no

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matter the decision that I made in
this, you know, there was a

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predetermined path that the only way to
successfully navigate this movie to come to the

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conclusion that basically it's taking you to
is to take their chosen path. Now,

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the awesome thing about this is that
they're there. You know, that

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they add a whole new dimension or
multiple dimensions to this, you know,

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to this movie by adding you know, those layers of a multiverse type of

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a thing to where you know that
he was remembering the choices that he was

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making and in the navigation that some
of the stuff became to where it was

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you know, you had to go
back five or six different steps, but

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you didn't have to make the preceding
the preceding steps to follow it, because

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it automatically navigated you through the whole
thing, and it was like whoa,

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But they were remembering what was going
on, or at least two characters were,

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you know, Stephen, the protagonists, and then a fellow coder,

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a fellow game creator in this I
think his name was Colin in the movie.

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You know, they were kind of
on the same level. If you

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will, you know, adding that
multiple dimensions and being able to if you

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make a wrong decision, go back
and change your mind, make a different

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decision and continue with this story and
discover more to a point of having a

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completely different outcome. Amazing movie.
I mean, holy crap, that that

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was whoa. Just adding that additional
level, that additional layer, that additional

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concept into the movie. Wow,
I mean it really was just next level.

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It really was next level. Man. So watching this movie twice and

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just having a blast with it,
you know, I could probably watch it

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once twice more and still have a
different experience, because this time I really

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did. I mean, I had
I went down avenues that I didn't previously

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go down and it was a completely
different experience. It was that is cool,

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you know, that was so cool. So here we go, you

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00:19:59.160 --> 00:20:03.079
know, because it's it's uh,
you know, the the multiverse, different

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decisions, making different decision I mean, that is one of them concepts that

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they actually do talk about, you
know. I mean, I'm not sure

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if y'alls are familiar with the Mandela
effect and different things that you know may

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or may not be you know,
and things in our reality that has shifted

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from one to another, and there's
details that are different now, you know.

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It's the Mandela effect researching. You
know. Now, I don't know

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00:20:30.519 --> 00:20:33.240
how I feel about some of that
stuff because it's like, all right,

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look, I remember as a kid, I used to like certain things,

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or even as a young adult,
I watched certain things and I liked it,

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you know, and then revisiting him
as an adult gave me a different

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00:20:47.200 --> 00:20:51.200
experience, you know. For instance, you know, one year, for

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Christmas, Now this was probably ten
years back or so, I mean,

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00:20:53.839 --> 00:20:56.799
I don't know, it was a
while ago, but for Christmas, my

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00:20:56.839 --> 00:21:03.359
mom gave me a a box set
of He Man and the Matches End of

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00:21:03.400 --> 00:21:07.119
the Universe, Volume one, Season
one, there you go. And I

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00:21:07.160 --> 00:21:11.920
remember watching this as a kid.
This was like one of my absolute favorite

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00:21:11.920 --> 00:21:15.880
cartoons. It was awesome. It
was a great cartoon. Rewatching it as

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00:21:15.880 --> 00:21:22.799
an adult, I'm like, how
did I like this? This is not

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00:21:23.480 --> 00:21:30.440
what I remembered it to be,
you know, and just a completely different

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00:21:30.519 --> 00:21:33.799
viewing experience, a completely different mindset
of the show, you know. And

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then I went back and I watched
with a buddy of mine because his wife

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had never seen this movie, so
we introduced it to her the movie Lost

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Boys with Keif for Sutherland and several
other people, and it was everything we

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00:21:47.960 --> 00:21:52.920
can do to make it through this
movie because we both remembered this movie as

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being an awesome, amazing movie.
It was cool, it was great.

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00:21:57.480 --> 00:22:03.000
Keif for Sutherland as a vampire,
this is awesome. Rewatching it as an

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00:22:03.000 --> 00:22:06.920
adult, it was like, this
thing sucks, you know. I mean

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00:22:06.960 --> 00:22:10.839
it was it was bad. I
mean, his wife was making fun.

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00:22:10.880 --> 00:22:15.880
It's like, what is this type
of a thing, you know? And

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I made my decision right then and
there. It's like, I am not

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00:22:18.400 --> 00:22:25.480
revisiting movies that I have seen because
I don't want to ruin the nostalgia.

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I don't want to ruin how I
think about this movie. I mean,

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there's something that I'd really like to
rewatch again, Critters, you know,

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00:22:32.759 --> 00:22:37.400
Gremlins again. Maybe you know,
I think that may be fun, But

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at the same time I'm scared too, because I you know, I remember

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00:22:41.119 --> 00:22:48.279
them as being awesome, amazing movies. I remember them being fun, and

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00:22:48.319 --> 00:22:51.480
it's like, I don't want to
ruin that, you know, by watching

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00:22:51.480 --> 00:22:56.480
it as an adult with maybe different
expectations and as no one do it.

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00:23:00.119 --> 00:23:03.440
So, you know, I don't
really put a lot of weight into it,

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00:23:03.480 --> 00:23:08.960
because sometimes we just remember things different, maybe not as it was,

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00:23:10.079 --> 00:23:15.839
but how we viewed it to be, which may or may not match facts

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00:23:15.279 --> 00:23:21.640
and truth. It was perception,
you know, So as far as that

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00:23:21.720 --> 00:23:23.359
goes, I don't know how much
weight I put behind it. But at

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00:23:23.400 --> 00:23:26.880
the same point or at the same
time, I guess you can say,

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00:23:26.880 --> 00:23:37.359
it's like, huh, maybe maybe. I mean, scientifically speaking, we've

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00:23:37.839 --> 00:23:45.319
discovered several universes per seing of which
case his to say, what's real,

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00:23:45.000 --> 00:23:52.160
what's not? All these other possibilities
why not type of a thing? I

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00:23:52.240 --> 00:23:56.920
mean, just the concept of it
I thought was intriguing, and how they

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00:23:56.000 --> 00:24:04.000
brought this was just phenomenal. I
mean, they did a great job with

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00:24:04.200 --> 00:24:10.079
this movie. They truly did,
you know. And and here's the thing

290
00:24:10.119 --> 00:24:15.200
too, you know, and this
is where we're going to end it.

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00:24:15.559 --> 00:24:21.160
Okay, as with this concept right
here, because the theme of this movie

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00:24:22.319 --> 00:24:29.799
was having choice, but the truth
being you know, because the Choices was

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00:24:29.839 --> 00:24:33.839
a lie. You know, the
cake is a lie. These choices was

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00:24:33.880 --> 00:24:37.559
a lie because it wasn't actual choices
that you were making is the viewer,

295
00:24:37.680 --> 00:24:42.960
because the creator had already decided that
this is what the outcome is going to

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00:24:44.000 --> 00:24:48.200
be. It was the illusion of
choice. I mean, how many of

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00:24:48.279 --> 00:24:52.839
us feel like that? You know, we go through our lives and it's

298
00:24:52.920 --> 00:25:00.880
like how much choice do we actually
have? You know? Sometimes two steps

299
00:25:00.920 --> 00:25:04.119
forward, one step back, you
know, it seems like we're navigating this

300
00:25:04.200 --> 00:25:08.039
thing called life, but we are
not in control. How many of us

301
00:25:08.119 --> 00:25:12.160
feel like that, at least in
some part of our lives, you know,

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00:25:12.200 --> 00:25:15.079
I mean it's the rat race,
you know, the maze that we're

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00:25:15.119 --> 00:25:23.480
trying to go through predetermined outcome.
If you will look, I'm not saying

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00:25:23.480 --> 00:25:27.039
like like full on, we ain't
got nothing, you know as far as

305
00:25:27.119 --> 00:25:30.640
choices goes, But I mean at
the same time, it's like, yeah,

306
00:25:30.680 --> 00:25:33.240
there's a lot of choice that's been
taken away from us, and either

307
00:25:33.359 --> 00:25:41.240
we can choose to go with the
grain and maybe have a little bit easier

308
00:25:41.279 --> 00:25:45.119
of a time, or we can
completely try to go against the grain and

309
00:25:45.240 --> 00:25:48.640
struggle through hardships with different things all
the time. Again, how many of

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00:25:48.720 --> 00:25:56.480
us feel like we don't really have
a choice, that somebody else is pulling

311
00:25:56.519 --> 00:26:04.480
the strings and the outcome has already
been predetermined. A weird concept. I

312
00:26:04.559 --> 00:26:08.519
know from time to time I felt
like that, and I'm sure at some

313
00:26:08.559 --> 00:26:15.599
points in time maybe y'alls have too. But it's intriguing how they tied all

314
00:26:15.640 --> 00:26:18.920
these multiple things together. And you
know, I tell you what, Like

315
00:26:18.960 --> 00:26:25.359
that aspect of it wasn't even something
that I thought about the first time around

316
00:26:25.400 --> 00:26:29.319
watching Us. You know, it
was something that was in my psyche,

317
00:26:30.119 --> 00:26:33.319
but it wasn't necessarily something that I
thought about. And it was like,

318
00:26:33.319 --> 00:26:37.400
Dude, once I did think about
this, I mean, it brought this

319
00:26:37.440 --> 00:26:41.400
movie to a different light entirely for
me. It was like, dude,

320
00:26:41.480 --> 00:26:44.119
I mean, maybe you guys were
quicker on the onset to what I was.

321
00:26:44.880 --> 00:26:48.000
Maybe I was just slow to the
uptick, but it was Wow,

322
00:26:48.759 --> 00:26:53.240
this is cool. I mean,
this is like scary, this is trippy,

323
00:26:53.480 --> 00:26:57.880
if you will, dude, you
know, really was a great movie.

324
00:26:57.960 --> 00:27:03.240
I can't recommend watching this one enough. I really can't. And it's

325
00:27:03.279 --> 00:27:07.160
definitely one of them things you can
watch it multiple times and have a different

326
00:27:07.240 --> 00:27:11.839
viewing experience. I still want to
watch it again. I still want to

327
00:27:11.880 --> 00:27:18.359
explore and see just how many different
possibilities I can take, you know,

328
00:27:18.480 --> 00:27:26.279
before you know, coming to a
nice conclusion. You know, it's it

329
00:27:26.359 --> 00:27:33.240
really was a fun one. So
that finishes it for this episode and the

330
00:27:33.279 --> 00:27:37.240
next episode I want to be talking. We're getting into season five now now.

331
00:27:37.279 --> 00:27:41.680
Of course, the next episode is
going to be Striking Vipers. Of

332
00:27:41.720 --> 00:27:47.519
course it is by by request,
We're doing Striking Vipers. I can't wait

333
00:27:47.519 --> 00:27:49.240
to do that. When that one
was going to be fun. That one

334
00:27:49.400 --> 00:27:55.319
is an interesting, interesting movie.
And before we even get into it,

335
00:27:55.400 --> 00:28:02.039
just so, y'all's no not for
kids. That movie is not or I'm

336
00:28:02.079 --> 00:28:06.599
sorry, that episode, that episode, it is not for kids by any

337
00:28:06.960 --> 00:28:11.559
stretch of the imagination whatsoever. I'm
going to try to keep it as clean

338
00:28:11.039 --> 00:28:17.440
as I possibly can. However,
the concepts, the things that are happening

339
00:28:17.480 --> 00:28:21.599
I'm going to throw as much nuance
into it as possible, but it's just

340
00:28:21.680 --> 00:28:25.759
a topic is not for kids.
Just throwing that out there, man,

341
00:28:25.960 --> 00:28:30.799
you have been warned. You've been
warned. And I haven't decided if I'm

342
00:28:30.799 --> 00:28:36.359
going to be doing that that episode
three or not. I might skip that

343
00:28:36.440 --> 00:28:41.920
and go directly into from Striking Vipers
into season six. I don't know.

344
00:28:42.160 --> 00:28:48.680
I haven't decided yet. It's possibilities
at this point, you know. But

345
00:28:48.880 --> 00:28:52.720
at any rate, I'm happy.
I'm excited about the next episode because that

346
00:28:52.799 --> 00:28:56.559
was That was a good one,
Striking Vipers. Whoa. It was a

347
00:28:56.599 --> 00:28:57.720
fun time. It really was.
All right, guys, that's all I

348
00:28:57.720 --> 00:29:02.000
got for today. Y'all have her
of a great one and I will see

349
00:29:02.039 --> 00:29:15.839
you crap in the next one.
Thank you for listening to the Black Mirror

350
00:29:15.920 --> 00:29:18.519
podcast. If you would like to
join the conversation, you can comment on

351
00:29:18.559 --> 00:29:22.839
this episode a spreaker dot com,
or go to the hohoshow dot com,

352
00:29:22.880 --> 00:29:26.880
forward slash form and the discussion board
for this s