What is krack Lakin fellow thermonuclear a efforts. I am Dan Valley coming at
you with my certified fantabulous co host Grant Hughes. So much to get to
today. It's going to be a dead sprint as we talk about the NBA
Finals, some offseason slop, and then of course we're gonna get to our
Atlantic Division free agency offseason outlooks very very very quickly. Though. Please remember
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So go go cop pick up whatever you want to call it. One,
two, a dozen of those, and yes we have loads to get
to, but we do need to ask the most important question of the day,
Grant, how the heck are you doing? I'm doing very well,
Dan, how are you? I am annoyed because we just recorded something before
this that I forgot to hit record on. We had to redo it,
so I'm not a happy camper, but you soldiered through it because you're you're
an awesome podcast host and friends, so I appreciate. Well now, I
mean really, now, everything we did was just better because we got two
passes at it. So it's worse or worse hard to say. It really
is hard to say. So I think we need to start with the most
important thing is the heat clearly just decided that they needed to turn na Kola
Yokich into a score, and they forced him to score. I'm trolling.
I can't. You can't really convey that. I just found that that was
funny. That was the discussion afterwards. We are two games deep into the
NBA Finals, they're tied up at one. What is your biggest overarching thought
about this or has anything you initially said leading in to the finals. Changed
after your your impressions of this series after watching the first two games, I
guess ultimately not a lot has changed because I picked the Nuggets in six,
so that by definition suggests I thought that the Heat would put up a fight,
which they've definitely done. I think, so overall, overarching, speaking
in overarching terms, not a lot has changed. But I actually had the
thought after Game one that the Heat could have won that game, and there
were some of the shot quality metrics out there that suggested maybe Miami was unlucky
or you know, make or miss blah blah blah, and then they did
have the Heat did have in game two. Everyone's talking about the defense,
which is fair, but they did have that game where they made half their
threes basically, and we, you know, we were talking about this series
ahead of time, figuring there's gonna be one of those if they get two,
if they get too Jimmy Butler games, which they haven't gotten yet,
really, then we're then we got a series. So the Heat maybe could
have should have probably more could have one Game one and shot their way to
a winning Game two. And the defense stuff, you know, getting I
take your point on like the how we've it's become like a hack thing or
Eric spols for bristles at the idea of turning Yo Kitchen into a score.
But the fact is that the Heat did something defensively with that zone that that
worked pretty well. So how whatever that means that seems sustainable. You'd assume
Denver will solve it a little bit. But you know, the Heat have
kind of done a lot of what if you were picking them to be competitive
they would have to do so far. I don't think that should make them
the favorites or anything close to that. But it's it's a series. I
think it's a series, and we both kind of thought that. I think
I don't know if you've has anything changed in your estimation. I just assumed
it wasn't going to be not that it wouldn't be much of a series.
I like, I picked nuggets in five as I'm stumbling through that, and
I guess underestimated the Heat once again, like to their ability to just figure
things out. And I really, look, the defense has been fine.
I do I respect what they were doing a lot. In Game two where
it's hey, let's play, Nicole Yo gets straight up with mam at a
Baio and like, yeah, you sent some help with theirs. I can't
even remember, was it like the first quarter Secon quarter. Eric Welsher was
mad that they sent a double at Yokich, And I do think that can
help take away some other stuff or at least make it tougher on him as
he's getting closer to the basket if you're gonna send late help. So I've
respected that. But like the Nuggets have scored in this series, even as
they've like even as the Heat have done whatever, it's what it comes down
to me. I guess two things that's in as like you need I know
Jamal Murray was a big reason towards the end of that game, while why
the Nuggets almost won in Game two, you need him to shoot better from
three Michael Porter Junior, those two combined, I think or eight of thirty
two through their first two games. And so like, you're gonna need that
shot making to be better, and you're gonna need to be better defensively because
the Heat's offense, specifically in Game two, Everyone's talked to death about how
they lost Max Strusce early on in those possessions where he hit was it four
threes in the first quarter or whatever it was, and on like two or
three of those they were just like egregious missus a lot of that. Fellow
Michael Porter Jr. And he has not looked great in this series, and
we've you know, touted how good like he's been throughout these playoffs and critical
and so if he's not even gonna be you know, he's not making shots,
not being great defensively, that's going to be an issue. I think
I respect what and I wouldn't have thought we talked about leading into the series,
would this be a Kevin Love series. I thought it was smart that
the Heat went to Kevin Love in the starting lineup and like he didn't even
shoot what was he like two of nine or whatever it was from the four
Yeah, the fact you have to guard him on offense, whereas if it's
Cody Zeller or you know, they were kind of treating Caleb Martin weird and
apparently he's been dealing with migraines. So I don't know if that accounts for
sort of his lackluster offensive performances. You really have to give the Heat a
ton of credit for the different buttons they pushed I just I don't want to
oversimplify this, but it's just like, if they're not going to shoot forty
eight plus percent from three, I don't know that this is necessarily a series,
but the caveat there is because again I was clearly wrong, like this
is this series seems destined to go, like with the Nuggets rattle off three
straight victories. Now, I'd be not shocked, really fairly surprising after seeing
how well the Heat have played in both fourth quarters and like Michael Malone being
frustrated that they took their foot off the gas. I totally understand that,
and so there's a lot of different things to sort of harp on. But
I think I'm I came away from this more impressed with Miami's offense and then
maybe more a little bit more concerned about Denver's defense than like really anything else.
There was just to me, it felt like there was. And I'm
not saying yo can do no wrong. It's just to me, there's been
too much focus on like look at what they've been able to do to yok
It. It's just like he dropped forty Like you could say, like you
would prefer him to only have four assists. But like, how many assists
does he have if his teammates are making shots and so yeah, I guess
credit the Heat for making like difficult on him, but I really think the
bigger focus needs to be, Okay, well, what can Denver do defensively?
And just look at what Miami was able to do offensively in Gabe too.
I think if I'm concerned, I'm not really so, like I said,
I'm not really adjusting any of my priors big picture for the series.
But if if I'm the Nuggets, I'm a little concerned that the zone works
like at all, that Miami zone works at all, because in theory,
if you just get Yokich in the middle of the floor with some space,
which you can do against most zones and this one in particular, then like
that's the Nuggets win that possession because he'll just make the right decision or score.
But the Heat have done so well just denying him touches like in the
middle of that zone that it's surprisingly well. So I'm if I'm the Nuggets,
I'm a little I'm not I'm not shook, but I'm a little concerned
that, oh man, it would have been nice if as expected, like
we would have just destroyed any zone look that Miami threw at us, and
that just wasn't the case. But yeah, so I mean, if the
Heat have another hot shooting game, I mean, which is totally possible because
they've just been continuing to do it, I might get a little concerned.
But but yeah, nothing nothing crazy yet. It's been a great series.
Game Game two was like a ton of fun to watch. Yeah, it
was. It did seem like though, so at the beginning, the Nuggets
come out or the Heat come out like super hot, and then it was,
oh, is there something here? But then the Nuggets just they led
by his Money's fifteen. You kind of thought it was going to go off
the rails from Miami there, and I started my head. I was like,
there were people I saw picked the Nuggets in four, and I'm thinking,
oh, they must be doing like a mild victory lap at this point
for the Heat to come. And I even called their game one come back.
It was it was like a fake comeback. It felt like we were
just sort of hanging around, hanging around, and like even it just seems
like so many red flags. Jimmy Butler was definitely more aggressive, but like
the Heat took. I think it was three or four shots at the rim
in the first half of the game two, just like no free throws all
game one two, Right, that was right there, two of them whopping
two of them. And they're not a super rim heavy team to begin with,
but like, even by their standards, it's like so rim light and
so I don't know, you know, I'm I'm so I shouldn't be impressed
by Heat at this point, Like it's a wheel, Like they're a good
team. This is not you know, everyone could go through how many undrafted
guys that they have on their roster, like we do every single broadcast,
YadA, YadA, YadA, But like, yeah, there's gonna be And
by the way, I found this split weird, which is something to keep
in mind. The Heat are shooting forty one percent per cleaning the glass on
threes when they're on the road, they're thirty five point nine percent at home.
That's weird, Right, that's weird. But I'm just like, even
so Max Drew's comes out hot. But then even like with Duncan Robinson and
we've talked about him a lot during these playoffs, him coming in and like
the thread of his shooting, but now he's just a reliable decision maker off
the dribble. I think Bam has been big where he didn't need to be
as aggressive because Miami shooters were hitting shots. You didn't need to be as
aggressive from the in between rains. He's been ranged. He's been fantastic this
series, and like that's been huge. He's still been able to hit those
in between looks that the Nuggets are going to concede to him, and I
think you look at this, you said before we entered this series, and
I'm one my my prediction hasn't changed. I might go to Nuggets and six.
I still think that the Nuggets are gonna win the title. That hasn't
I want to make it clear that hasn't changed for me one bit. But
you said, coming too the series, the heat will get one game because
Jimmy Butler will be the best player on the floor. He's yet to be
the best, but I would say even close to the best. And kids
playmaking in Game two for sure, that was like awesome. But and they
have one game, and so that's what I can come. You said that,
and I've been thinking about it ever since. I'd like towards the end
of Game one, I'm like, oh, But then watching Game two and
how it unfolded towards the end, I'm going, wow, I want if
I come away more concerned, then then like, should the Nuggets be ultra
concerned? And I default towards no. But I do think it's notable that
you've gotten a victory on the road without Jimmy Butler being I think you could
even don't even say the best player on the floor your best player, right
right. I think the last my last thought on really the heat is that
I feel like some part of me and probably everybody has sort of been waiting
for like when you know, whether it's the hot shooting, whether it's like
Martin and Struce and Vincent just playing you know, way over their heads compared
to the regular season, like just kind of waiting for the heat to turn
back into a pumpkin, like you know, you snap your fingers and then
suddenly they're back to the team that got outscored during the year and couldn't shoot
and all this other stuff. I think it's clear now that that's not the
way this will go. I think if and when the Nuggets win the series,
it will be because the Nuggets are really good and they have the best
player. But also just because the Heat, even playing at you know,
this elevated level, like aren't quite good enough. I think that's the way
it will go, as opposed to you know, after the Milwaukee series,
it was like, oh, that kind of felt flukey, and then I
you know, okay, well, okay, they made it to the conference
finals. Now they be It's like it felt like, you know, the
wheels would come off or they'd revert to their true form quote unquote, I
don't think that's it. I think it's just gonna be. The Heat can
do this. They can win games by making half their threes. They've done
it all playoffs. Jimmy Butler's gonna get you one. But ultimately the Nuggets
are just better. But so so like to anybody assuming that the Heat will
flip the switch the wrong way at some point and just be who they were,
that's like that's off the table at this point. That isn't gonna happen.
A fluke is not a fluke if it persists for like two months,
yeah, it's we had to stop framing it. I mean we even had
a segment we're just like we're not even going to try and explain the heat.
Yeah, and I don't want to because part of it's just like this
is an incredible run thrown, but there's they're just absolutely so good and even
just right down into you know, we've talked a lot about whether you look
at how the supporting cast is it depth in the form of optionality or depth
in the form of uncertainty, because like you have to talk all these different
buttons and you don't necessarily know. Okay, we have Bam, we have
Jimmy, but like what's kind of happening after that? We know what everyone
can do, but they're gonna be Spurts where no, Max Drews isn't gonna
go oh of eighty from three, but they're Mighty Knights where he doesn't isn't
shooting too well. Now, Caleb Martin, who was one of the finalists
for the Conference Finals MVP, is now again dealing with migraines, has not
been a huge factor offensively in this series. You have Hayward Highsmith plays a
bunch of minutes in was It Game one and I guess the game got out
of hand at that point, but then barely plays in game two. We
kind of saw that towards the end of the conference finals, where it's oh,
Hayward Highsmith every other game, they could just go to Kevin Love.
I had written after Game one that they needed to get away from trying to
steal minutes with Cody's eeller against Yokich, and they came right back and tried
to steal minutes with Cody's ller against yo Kich. We'll see if those still
stick in three. But I've come away from this just endlessly impressed with Miami
after already being endlessly impressed with them. And is there are you watching for
as we, you know, wrap up the finals talk here? What are
you watching for specifically in game three or what are you thinking about most heading
into game through, like a change you could see or something that you're going
to be monitoring. I think a couple of things. One, I'm curious
what kind of shots the heat are going to get because now sort of like
it's all been laid bare that the Nuggets have decided that they didn't play hard
enough and didn't bring the requisite intensity, and that contributed to Miami getting some
pretty good looks, like you mentioned the struce looks in the first quarter,
of game too, does that tighten up? And then if and when that
does, is that just the end of it? Because if the Heat don't
keep paced, I think the Nuggets will continue to score, and that's how
that game will go and how the series will go. And then I'm still
obsessed with the zone. I'm just I'm blown away that it's been remotely effective
because I just did not think that was a real option, And I just
under how much more Miami will use it, what changes they'll make. Will
they keep pressing? That's the other thing. Before dropping into the zone,
They've put on a bunch of full and three quarter court pressure, and the
Nuggets are getting into their stuff with like, you know, twelve seconds left
on the shot clock, which is that matters. Can the Heat keep doing
that kind of stuff? That's That's the other thing I'll keep watching because I
think the Nuggets, you know, all things being equal, we'll just find
ways to score most likely, and we agree they're the better team. But
if Miami can keep making some of this stuff work, then maybe that changes.
And as you mentioned, Denver had a one twenty five point six offensive
rating in Game two, and so like you could talk about Miami's but it's
like they still figure it out ways to score. I think what I'm going
to be watching is whether this and the Miami's point differential during the playoffs skeewed
very heavily towards Look what we do in the fourth quarter? What are they
going to keep this stuff up? In the fourth quarter? They had This
was from John Schumann of NBA dot Com. I actually didn't check it,
but he had them at a one eighty nine point five offensive radioyeah, it's
like the highest of any quarter all season basically, right it was. It
was in like the top ten or something like that, which is just like
one eighty nine point five is monstrous, and so you can definitely need to
criticize like what the Nuggets were doing defensively, as Michael Malone didn't it.
It felt like they just took their foot. I hate framing it like that,
but it felt like they kind of let up. It wasn't hate that
some teams don't know how to handle success. Did you hear that on the
prom Yeah? I hate that screaming too, because it feels like dismissive and
oversimplification, and it usually, oh, we weren't trying hard enough. Is
like a it's symptomatic of something way worse, like we've tuned the coach out,
or like we hate each other or you know, things like that.
That's not the case with Denver, but it always gives me pause when that
is like the agreed upon explanation of like we just we didn't bring it.
It's like, what do we really like? That's that's like two, that's
not a thing. I don't know. You made Jeff Green mad though he
was. He was like gets and the other thing that we haven't talked enough
about and they kind of fell off to Christian Brown has a great game for
mostly game, and I've been very impressed with the benches, like the lineups
where we're skewing Okay, it's only Jamal Murray on the court, or it's
only MPJA, but mostly just Jamal Murray and then we're gonna just surround him
with defense. And like some of the bench lineups that they've been able to
roll out defensively for Denver have really been tone setters and they couldn't like they
didn't maintain it for all of Game two. But this is a team that
I think I trust to just be like, hey, is this sort of
a wake up call, or is this just looking at their performance over the
course of the season, over the course the entire playoffs to score as efficiently
as they have despite not getting great games, or even so, forget Michael
Porter Junior has not been great, but you haven't even gotten full games from
like Aaron Gordon's hot in Game one kind of fades, Jamal Murray up and
down as per usual. They haven't put together a complete performance yet, and
they're going to. Like that's just the level of faith I have in them,
and so I do expect this series on the last longer than five games
now, though, which is fighting from like just being able to watch it.
But I don't think it's changed my impression overall. I was already very
impressed with Miami. I just I think they're eventually going to run out of
offensive firepower, specifically to hang with this Nuggets team. I think that's a
great point to go out on. We've spent all this time talking about,
like, well, what does it look like, you know, for Miami
to win, Well, this has to happen in one game, and this
has to happen in another. We haven't talked about like Denver's just gonna play
a perfect game or two at some point like that's just because they're just better.
So so that's that's a good way to go out by sort of focusing
on Denver just has the capacity to make this not a series if they kind
of get everything right. Do you want to talk about do you have any
stray thoughts on I went into the Monty Williams hire for Detroit, but that
was without you any thoughts on you know, the Pistons decision to give him
the thirteen plus million dollars a year. I feel like he's the right coach
for that team where they are in their developmental arc. It gives it makes
me a little concern that he basically said no first, right, and then
they said how about some extra money? And then he said yes. Is
that a fair assessment of the sequence of events? More or less we were
on here saying, oh, he's not He clearly doesn't want a coach next
year. We said that, and then two days later he was alright,
So I'm in full agreement with you. And so because I'm sure you talked
about it, they're paying him a ridiculous amount of money over a very long
term contract for an NBA head coach, and so like if that was the
reason, I get it, Like, it's a job you go where they're
going to pay you a ton of money, and in any other line of
work you would never question it. But like if he didn't want to and
then the money swayed him, like how in is he? That would be
a concern I have. But he is the right coach. I think he's
the pick I would have made if you could anyone out there on the market
to coach the Pistons, like he's it. I think because he has you
know, he's well respected. He is a guy that I think young and
old players like and under and believe in generally speaking, just because he's he's
played and he's had success everywhere you know, most places he's been. He
has some gravitas, like and the Suns were really really good when he was
in charge of them. So yeah, I mean he whether you're kid cunning
him or whether you're like boyam Bogdanovitch, I think he makes a lot of
sense for this team, as long as it's not just the money that made
him choose it. I do think though, that hopefully this will this implies
I think the commitment feels like it infers they're really looking to make a splash
immediately, but the length of the contract is kind of like, Okay,
well, he's going to be given the runway to figure this out and this
is not going to be something that's rushed. But I do think maybe the
draft, but more so how they use their caps facing free agency might say
a lot about what their expectations are for this season and maybe how available is
Bogdanovitch and trade rumors he opens things up. I'm not saying you need to
move him, but I still want to just make sure that this team is
in it for the longer haul rather than Okay, we've been in this rebuild
for a few years, it's time to you know, progress needs to come
in the form of wins in the standings rather than just these moral or functional
developmental victories. There's a lot of teams this offseason that feel like, it
feels like are kind of ready to start skipping some steps, Like the Rockets
are kind of the prime example of that, talking about we're gonna make,
you know, veteran acquisitions and we're going to try to win. It seems
like Detroit is kind of has kind of been trying to do that for a
couple of years, Like with some of their veteran signings. What do you
think about their like one foot in, one foot out approach, Like,
because I just default to just take your time, Let's see what kid Cunningham
and Jade and Ivy look like. Let's figure out which big guys we want
to keep, and let's not try to win thirty eight games you know this
year. Yeah, I don't even know if I'll classified as one foot in,
one foot out, but it does seem like they have one eye on
like the play in at all times, and I don't. I don't want
to see them indulge that. And I do think I wasn't and he did
play well once he got there. I wasn't thrilled with the James Wiseman move,
but that's not a move that you make thinking, okay, like we're
gonna we're gonna compete. Next point, as you mentioned, you're trying to
figure things out on the front line with your trillion bigs and so that I'm
not saying that they're gonna rush into this. I just do feel like you
could view this a number of different ways where it's well would you are you
really just spending that much on the coach and be like, hey, like
for the first two or three years, like we need to, we're just
gonna be figuring things out. And so I'm just and again the Bogdanovich like
getting him in the first place, I just have my eye on them to
where it's okay, we know the rockets they've been and they have an incentive
because of the picks that they owe to Brooklyn but or excuse me, Oklahoma
City. But like the Pistons are just sort of like the next up where
it's always what's the next most Like well, Portland and Houston are up there
of teams that probably shouldn't trade their lottery picks but are going to anyway.
And then I kind of have my eye on like the Pistons after that,
I don't think they'll trade their lottery picks, just sort of in that bucket
of will they try and accelerate things too quickly. The other coaching higher which
we did not talk about, and I didn't talk about either, Frank Vogel
to X Kevin Young, who was a finalist for the job. He is
staying on as the highest paid assistant the league now over two million per Doc
Rivers pulled his name out. Apparently we're getting and this leaves no doubt my
mind that Nick Nurse was never going to get the Bucks job. That we're
just doing faith. So anyone who said I was wrong, you were right.
I was one hundred percent wrong when I said, oh, Nurse pulled
out. Maybe he knew he wanted the Sixers. No, we're just doing
the thing where if it looks like a coaches Oh, he decided not to
be right and he can't fire me. I quit. I Before I throw
it to you, I just want to say, Frank Vogel is a great
defensive coach, and I think that for what Kevin Young Young is known for
offensively in his relationship with Devin Booker, that could be a good partnership.
My two very quick thoughts that I want to throw to you, one to
get rid of Monty Williams and then for it to kind of come down to
Kevin Young, Frank Vogel, and Doc Rivers. It felt uninspiring. I'm
just And then my second thought is while Kevin Young, I was gonna say
Tylou, while Kevin Young and Tylou could work well well, Kevin Young and
Frank Vogel could work. There's something inherently awkward about missing out on a job
staying on to be the top assistant at the highest paid salary in the league.
I'm assuming Vogel was at least okay with it, or was just told
that, hey, Kevin Young is if he's staying, is going to come
with this job. I don't know if it threatens to undermine him, but
knowing that Kevin Young has like Devin Booker in his camp, it just has
the potential to It could work. And I know Suns fans are excited.
That's fine. I'm not gonna say that you shouldn't, but it's just a
little awkward. That's the correct take. I think you can't. You well,
you said, Tylu, you can't talk about this situation without talking about
David Blatt and Tylou in Cleveland, where it was he was the highest paid
assistant there the team and Lebron soured on David Blatt, and Tylu was,
oh, look at me, Hey, let's just move this guy over in
a chair on the bench and there you go. I think that's very like
if it goes bad with Vogel in Phoenix and guess what, Kevin Young the
next head coach. It's like, well, yeah, of course that's what
happened. We'll be able to look back, you know, and say this
was obvious and you could see this coming. I do think Vogel is a
good coach that deserved another chance, and like his defensive track record, just
it's kind of unimpeachable. Like wherever he is, good defense shows up,
and it's just to happen too often for it to be a coincidence. I
don't know that he has the ability to add like four rotation players to the
roster, which is really what the Suns need. But I think that's a
totally fine pick. Even if I would agree that going from Williams to him
is kind of and factoring in it could work. It could work, but
it's uninspired. I think I would agree with it's kind of you kind of
shuffled the deck chairs a little bit. But if it's if the case was
that this team was just done listening to Monty Williams, which seems like,
and the best players were chief among them, then like, yeah, what
do you? What do you? What else are you gonna do? The
final thing here is some people have wondered whether this makes it less likely the
Sun's trade Eighten because of like how Frank Vogel likes to use his big and
have rim protecting bigs. I'm curious what you think about that. I think
it does make it less likely that they trade him. It doesn't change again,
it doesn't change the fact that they need depth in trading and is like
a great way, maybe the best way for them to actually accomplish that.
But I think I have to think that some element of the decision just swap
out Williams for Vogel is maybe we get DeAndre in like back like all the
way back in and he was a starting center for a finalist and a team
the one sixty whatever game. So that's something you that's not like a an
insignificant factor in the decision making process there. That's a great way to look
at it. I still default too if they keep him. It says more
about his trade market than what they think you can do under French is kind
of just wear Matt with three years and one hundred plus million on a big
The last thing before we get to our Atlantic Division offseason preview, there was
a rumor, I don't know if you saw it or report from Sham Sharania
of The Athletic and christ Haynes of Weaker report that Kyrie wants Lebron in Dallas.
Just thoughts on that, thoughts on the reporting and the details of it
all. I hand the talking stick to you. We both didn't want to
cover it, but you I said it, and you said you think it
needs to be covered, So well I do. And I'm trying to channel
our off air discussion about it to like get my get riled up a little
bit about it. So like, Okay, Kyrie would like Lebron in Dallas?
Uh huh? Like got it? How are we doing that? And
is it the way where Lebron gives up ninety seven million dollars? Is it
the way where Dallas tries to concoct a trade with nowhere near the assets it
would take to get Lebron? Is it by Lebron, you know, deciding
he no longer cares about playing, you know, being around usc where a
soun's gonna play, you know, being in La with Like, I just
I guess it could happen. I just don't see any feasible way for it
to Like, we just shouldn't believe that this is possible or probable, and
I'm annoyed that we're talking about it when we're in the middle of the finals,
especially coming on the of like a forty eight hour maybe longer than that
new cycle of Lebron Is he going to retire or not? When again,
yeah, he's gonna leave one hundred million dollars on the table to walk,
Like you know, we talked about that a lot, just how like it
was probably you asked the guy who ran a bunch of marathons if he would
like to run again, and that was part of it. But now it's
just like, do we I know it's a transactionally based new cycle now and
everybody cares about this stuff more than the games, but like, can we
just watch the finals? Can we watch two really good teams in an interesting
matchup and not talk about just like this is like a two K made up
like this, I'll throw it to you because I'm like starting to trip myself
up. But like Lebron to Dallas feels beyond pipe dreamy, Like it's just
the mechanics of it are so ridiculous, Like it's not literally impossible, but
it's close enough to where we shouldn't even be like honoring this report leaked by
a guess Kyrie's camp that he would like Lebron on to debt, Like,
that's just like, what is this? You know? Yeah, my thoughts,
So I saw this corrected wheel real quick. It's just like, when
you're giving a platform to either these teams or these players with these agents,
you don't have to frame it as the MAVs we're trying to make a run
at Lebron last season when Lebron couldn't be traded, nobody looks good. There
is that? Or the MAVs trying to like showcase how little they know about
extensions and the collective Barcade agreement if it was them, and even talking about,
oh, the easiest way to get there is a buyout, just sort
of run me the wrong way because you mentioned he's gonna leave how much money
on the table or the Lakers are gonna have this huge dead cap hit.
And the other thing to remember here is he would It's the easiest way for
it to happen, by the ways, via trade. It's not via buyout,
it's via trade. And the two things that really get in the way
of that is Lebron has to say I'm going to Dallas and you can't send
me anywhere else because I'm going to retire. Trade me, right, and
which okay? Fair? Because Dallas's best offer is salary filler plus Josh Green
Jadeen Hardy and they can give up the two first round picks, including the
number ten pick in the draft if you put Lebron on the open market like
to trade him anywhere, which they theoretically could do. I still believe you're
getting more way more right. Well, I did see there were people Mavericks
Twitter was like, why would we give up the number ten picks? I
just And the other thing is, so if you max out Kyrie and then
you trade for lebron salary and you have Luca Donche's salary that is literally the
salary cap next year one hundred and thirty four million dollars. Yeah, how
are you flushing out the rest of the roster as these like you're gonna lose
your mid level at that point or I guess like you would have one more
season of maybe being able to use it. But you're gonna flesh out the
roster with eight minimums and then an exception. I mean, and there could
be players left after whatever trade. So it seems highly unrealistic. And I
still if they're going to team up, I think it happens in LA because
and I don't think it happens, to be clear, and I don't think
it should. I don't think that makes sense for the Lakers, no,
because I do think they need depth still. And the other thing here is
like Kyrie the by the way, the only way that it really anything like
this happens would be someone's taking a pay cut, and it would most likely
be Kyrie because guess what, he's the actual free agent. It's great that
Kyrie's asking Lebron to come to Dallas. Kyrie is the free agent. Yeah,
And so this feels more like maybe pressure could have even come from like
the Lebron side of things at like, oh, let's put pressure on the
Lakers to continue going after Kyrie, or Kyrie putting pressure on the Lakers.
Hey, you need to give me a real offer. The Lakers can't max
out Kyrie because you get into the issue of they can get between thirty and
thirty five million dollars in cap space. I think it's it's it's under thirty
five. Let's say they get to the thirty million dollars number. That's just
getting rid of basically everybody. Everybody you can't max that's Kyrie's max is forty
six point nine. And even if you do as sign in trade, you're
looking at, Okay, we're gonna attack on Kyrie's forty six point nine if
you wanted to max him to Lebron's forty six point seven. To Davis,
it's forty point six. That again is the salary cap, and now you're
going to be hardcapped. How are you working within that to build a competitive
roster? Joe says in the chat. Look how that worked out for the
Suns this year. I mean they had Yeah, it didn't. They clearly
needed depth depth by the end of the season. I don't know if you
if they would regret that Kevin Durant trade, though this feels a little bit.
The machinations are just different here, and I just I don't know.
I don't see it happening. But if it does happen, it's overwhelmingly likely
to happen in LA because like Kyrie is the free agent, and it's good
end with someone probably taking a pay cut anyway. I just don't think he's
going to take the pay cut. Yeah. Yeah. If I'm the Lakers,
give me give me the roster that had the second best record in the
in the in the league after the All Star Break, which you could just
have by bringing all your guys back over Kyrie Irving and like nobody else depthwise
on the whole roster. I just, I mean, that's that's how simple
it is for me. Are you ready to move into the Atlantic Division off
season preview? I am. You may have to keep us on a timer
here so we uh don't spend forty minutes on the first team. Uh yeah,
I won't. I will make us move things along and everybody worry.
So we begin with we can alternate going through the off season vitals. But
I actually need to scroll up to the off season vitals. So just we'll
talk about these numbers. But the cap next year is projected to come in
at one thirty four million, the luxury tax one sixty two million, the
tax apron one sixty nine million, which would make the second apron one seventy
nine point five million, seventeen and a half over the tax threshold. We've
we've we'll talk about teams, whether they're going to have the bigger MLI or
the mini MLI, or what their best spending tool is. I'll begin with
the Boston Celtics. Key free agents Grant Williams, he's restricted and Gallo has
a player option. He'll pick it up. Key extension eligible candidates Jalen Brown,
he's eligible for that supermax of five years and two hundred and ninety point
three million. Their best spending tool, maybe it's the mini mid level,
but they could be up against the second Apron if they keep Grant Williams.
So, Grant, what are we what are you thinking about? Like,
what's your biggest overarching thought about the Celtics their biggest need? What you're what
you're looking to see them do? Is we head into their offseason. Yeah,
we've talked about them a fair amount in the context of the postseason,
and it seems to me that they need someone that can kind of shake things
up or create a good shot, whether that's by driving or passing when the
offense just stalls, which is like what got got the Celtics killed again.
You could also find another big maybe if especially so, I guess we could
just get into like if you lose Grant Williams, and restricted free agency totally
possible. You might need another big to throw in there, especially as Al
Horford ages, but I don't view that as significant as as as big of
a need as just someone to make a play offensively to like get a shot,
which is a weird thing to say with Jason Tatum on the roster,
but that's just that's just what we saw was a failing in whether it's the
offensive scheme or the personnel. So like you said it, if you yeah
right, as Blown says, that was supposed to be Malcolm Brogden. Turns
out Malcolm Brogden is pretty tunnel visiony and it's a good spot up Threa.
There have been some someone in discord I'm sorry forgetting who said that they already
have enough creators and they just have a bunch of To me, it's just
secondaries, like they don't have the primary floor organizer. I think that's where
the issue comes in. And the bad news is, given the tools are
gonna have, it'll be really hard, if not impossible, to find someone
like that. And we should say there's not a lot of like high end
shot creators on the market to begin with. So like I just so let's
start with, do you have an upper limit on Grant Williams that you're willing
to match and restrict your free agency? It feels like sixteen seventeen million is
about as high as I'd be willing to go. Yeah, but it's just
like, are they gonna use him? Joe Mazoula seemed very anti Grant Williams
at points throughout the season. In the playoffs, he was and apparently that
was that was a point of like some frustration among the rosters because that was
the clulest hued offense. That was a great piece to be athletic, by
the way, with Jared Jared Weiss and I forget Jay King. Yeah,
uh yeah, So I would probably go fifteen sixteen feels right. He's definitely
if he gets twenty from anyone like he was starting wanted to at the beginning
of the season. I don't, you know, he doesn't give you enough.
He's not just not big enough to give you the raw ring protection and
a ton of rebounding and play to five by himself. So but I would
go if I'm I mean, what else are you gonna do? Because you
mentioned the advantage creation the other thing, I'm kind of thinking about for them
is do they need a big because Al Horford, what if the aging curve
just kind of falls off? Yeah, he's good, he's getting older.
And then you have Robert Williams a third how many games is he good for?
And he was dealing with a sickness. I thought they were becoming like
anti RW three towards the end of that heat series, but he's apparently dealing
with a sickness. And then if you're gonna lose Grant Williams, and even
if you don't lose Grant Williams, like you still kind of feel like you
need a big that you actually trust to play where it's okay Blake Griffin seems
like he might have had a good impact on the locker room, but it's
not gonna be him. And you know, Luke Cornette wasn't playing when it
mattered, So I like, do they need another big here? And that
to be fair, if they need another big, it definitely gets harder if
you're losing Grant Williams in the process. But it's easier to find a big
using minimums than it's Hey, can you just find like this other floor general?
And whilst we have as the minimum or the miniml lea to offer.
Yeah, can I throw you some like shot creator types that I was thinking
of as as potential targets. I can't promise that I'll catch them, but
please throw them out so they're all they're all bad. I don't feel good
about it. So I mean just just thinking of like someone that can just
will shoot it, you know, when when it's reasonably open and the offense
has gone to shit, like Lonnie Walker, Terrence Davis. I mean,
if we're talking minimums, I don't think that's enough to get either of those
guys. Trey Jones is a very different type of player. May not get
out of San Antonio at all, but he may he'll be the floor general
type. I just don't know if he's quite you know, up to that
task. Like he's he's kind of a I don't know, like a stop
gap. Really, I guess if you went big, is naz Red is
the mini mid level enough to get naz Reid? Like he's getting more than
that, right? Uh? If times for the mini mid level exception,
he needs a fire his agent. So that's all I got, Like,
I don't I think if really we've talked about this before with respect to do
you give Jalen Brown two ninety million? I think the best course for the
Celtics is pretty much run it back and just hope you get lucky on one
of these minimum signs, because yeah, add Frankie Lakina called a day.
Sure you're good. I've noted shot creator frank Lakina. I've tried to figure
out other like like do you take a flyer on Derrick Rose as the team
option or go on Dragic like skew Old that way, or like can you
you know, reinvent like is it time for a DJ Augustine renaissance or something
in the NBA? How many renaissances have we had for DJ Augustine? Yeah?
I don't, And so what you run. It's the issue of if
they want the player we're talking about, it probably needs to happen. And
Blown says in the chat, I feel like they need a consistent shooter.
Yes, they I just feel like I guess they could, but like you
have enough shooting on this roster. There's just variability because they take so many
threes, they are going to be nights where it looks awful. They got
to generate different kinds of threes where it's like into out instead of just swinging
it around the perimeter. Glad that Glad that's somewhat appreciated my DJ Augustine.
I don't. And it's when you're getting into trades. If you don't want
to trade Brown and Tatum, which I wouldn't want to, we're in the
camp. You're not trading these guys, so then it's okay, Well it's
RW three and Smart and Brockden and White on the table. I just don't
even know, like what the best player you could acquire while not trading any
of your real core pieces, like what this team could really use and his
team needs him now. So it's not like Mike Conley and Boston make that
type of a player where it doesn't have to be domineering for general. But
I think that's what they need. Do you think they need that more than
they need another big And we'll wrap it up there. I think it's recency
bias, although I don't know if you can call it that if it's been
a couple of years. I just I just I want someone and maybe it's
I don't know if it's a player that's going to fix this. It may
be a system thing. I just want someone that's gonna make it so the
offense doesn't look like five guys have just never played together before in like crucial
playoff moments. So I think I focus more on someone that can pierce the
defense, create shots, or you know, just conventionally generate offense that isn't
swinging the ball around the perimeter with no like intention to do anything. My
final thing before it dismounted the soap boxes that people have become way too low.
In the Celtics, they just made back finals and it's just like,
let's let's slow our role here. Do you want to take us to the
next team or do you not have the sheet open? I can. I
got it open so alphabetically, because we're very good at the alphabet on this
podcast. We've never messed it up. The Brooklyn Nets come next in the
Atlantic Division. Very interesting team. Blew up the roster at the deadline last
year, so they have key free agents. Cam Johnson is restricted, probably
going to be one of the most sought after free agents. Fits pretty much
everywhere. I know what I think he deserves. I'm curious where you land
on that. We can get to that in a little bit. Yeah,
I can't wait to get to that. That's fascinated. Now slightly less uh
significant you to watch an abby good defensive player. The Nets have his non
bird rights, can probably keep him if they want to. I don't imagine
there's a huge outside offer coming for him. Don't have any major extension eligible
candidates, their cap pictures or their spending tools. Essentially like they have the
mini mid level, which is kind of contingent on how much Cam Johnson gets
and could get to the full MLI, which we have. I don't know
if we mentioned minimd levels, looking like it'll be about seven million a year
with standard raises. I can never remember the percentage of those raises. The
full mid level starts at twelve point two. That's the projection. So they
have a trade exception the little under five million from the Kyrie Irving deal.
They don't have to use that nill February of twenty four and their biggest needs
I don't know if you want to kind of jump into that a little bit,
but they also kind of need someone that is an upgrade on say Spencer
Dinwiddie or the where did this come from? Version of Michail Bridges who's an
offensive self starter and they could use a big If you saw that series against
the Sixers, it was like a joke what they were trying to do,
and they did with you know again, I will I will maintain the Nets
did pretty well throwing a bunch of big wings at mbid and doubling and stuff.
Defensively, they have the potential to be awesome. They just need someone
behind Nick Claxton with some size. I think, So where would you like
to take it from there? Do you want to go targets? Do you
want to talk Cam Johnson? What do you want to do with the Nets?
I want to hear your thoughts on how much you think that Cam Johnson
deserves in free agency. I just think the floor is like four years,
one hundred million. I think if he gets less than that, I'm surprised.
And that's based on there are not a lot of combo forwards that are
in the middle. He's an older rookie, so he's like twenty seven now,
so you're getting his basically his prime, like his mid to late twenties
into his early thirty, like age thirty one season maybe thirty. He's a
better defender than he was billed as coming out of college. He has proved
that. Like I forget the stat that I had, but his defensive estimated
plus minus not a perfect stat. But I think we generally agree this is
the best of the catch alls. He isn't like the ninety six percentile and
defensive estimated plus minus first position last year. So like he's not He's not
a spot shooter that has a low ceiling like he was supposedly. You know,
I keep harping on the draft status, but this was like the son's
got killed for reaching for him. I don't know if you remember all that.
Yeah, I remember, I was shocked. You remember his interview.
I think he fits everywhere. I think the market should be huge because you
have all these rebuilders that could totally justify spending big on him, Like this
guy's gonna start for us for the duration of the deal we sign him to.
Contender should want it like he just the market should be he should be
as in demand on the market as like, certainly more so than someone like
Grant Williams or Kobe White, another restricted free agent you mentioned. I just
think you got to start him at like twenty five a year. I think
that's just what the market's gonna bear. I will be fairly surprised if he
gets that much. I guess I don't my trouble with him. He's a
very good player, and there's more of a four game to him on offense
than just shooting. Is he a combo forward? He might be a four?
He might be. That's what I keep coming back, like, No,
he's not as he would skew more towards the perimeter where it's like John
Collins is four or five. He's more three four. Can you give that
much money to a very much one position player where it's like the one,
it's not like just point guard, And that just makes it so harder to,
you know, like use him and maybe certain defensive lineups. Perhaps it
doesn't matter, and he's a better defender. I think he's credit with.
But if you start trying to put him on like true wings, yeah,
I know he's gonna hold up all that well. And so that would be
I think that. Plus you kind of look at the teams that have cap
space. I'm not sure how many of them will throw that much money out
there, and maybe they're signing trades. I haven't considered yet, but I
think that represses his value more than anything. Is that I view him very
much as sort of a pure four. I'm just well, I'm not I'm
not sure on that point, but I do think he's different. Like you
mentioned John Collins, he's like a different type of player than John Collins because
he is just the lights out you cannot lose him shooter. So if you
can do that and credibly defend a position, I think that's you know,
that's not the same as being a we're not talking. I'm trying to think
of like who is the Quintessentially, I guess Anna Nobi if Anna Obi were
a slightly better shooter, like that's the the upgraded version of this Johnson's kind
of excuse more offense, I guess. But I think that. So you
mentioned some of the teams like Charlotte could do it, Detroit could do it,
Houston could do it, Indy could do it, The Thunder could pay
him, even Orlando. Orlando's like the last someone like him, but like
they could do you know, Sacramento could maybe trim a ton and get enough
money. The Spurt, Like there's all these teams Utah, Like there's all
these teams that could really throw a bunch of money at Cam Johnson. So
I just feel like the offer sheets coming, the big offer sheets coming,
and the Nets should probably match it, blown said Ben Simmons could fix all
their problem and their entire problems. That's fucked up when we look at their
need for size or advantage creation, and you had noted here that they might
be the best team in the division to pull off a big trade. I
think I would agree with you. The only team I would rival that is
maybe because the Raptors may be bigger as sellers but not as buyers in the
Knicks too. That's why I have a question mark in there in the dock
like that would be the only team. But when you're looking at free agency,
I mean like if Dame becomes available, if Trey Young becomes available,
I don't think those guys will become available. And so when you move on
from there, it's a little tougher you're not gonna solve. We just went
through, like what the point guard market is gonna be. Can you let's
even let's say, let's just assume they can open up the bigger MLI is
that like, you know, that's not I don't even know if that gets
you Trey Jones. I don't know if you could poach him from San Antonio
at that point. I mean, Iowa Dessum, it would be really interesting
for this team. I don't know if he's floor general enough. Balls aren't
going to let him go for that. It feels like it'll be easier,
definitely thoughts on if you have any like floor general types for them, It'll
definitely be easier for them to invest in size and even that. So I'm
going through some of the names that I feel like would make sense, and
it's like, well, Bismack Bimbo is not actually that big, and do
you want to go like Paul Reid's not that big, and do you want
to go through the Andre Drummond experience again, naz Reid would be a great
offensive fit, but again and his rim protection improved towards the end of this
year, he's not that big. I kind of wonder this is the name
that's out there, and it doesn't I think when you when you try to
go through what they need, you're gonna skew towards defense. But you have
all these sort of wing types sloating around and Dorian Finney Smith and Royce O'Neill,
would you trust and if you can't get an advantage creator, would you
trust if you could get him for like the bigger mL E, christian would
here more shot creation some actual size. Is that worth taking a chance on
or just know I don't hate it at the at the full am I don't
know, I don't. I mean I feel like you're posing it as like
we understand what christian Wood is at this point, how do you feel about
this? So? I mean that's if I'm spending the full mid level if
they can get there again, recognizing the need for size, especially defensive size,
which christian Wood really doesn't provide. I think I'd rather take a shot
at like Gabe Vincent or or someone like that. If you think Vincent is
going to get the full mL E. You know, maybe he does,
maybe he doesn't, but you know that or that level of money because none
of the bigs. Yeah, I mean you talk about the point Guard market
being pretty bare and the big market is is rough. Yeah. The it's
just like, oh, are we gonna like Alex Lynn? Like, I
just I don't know what would be the I wouldn't be opposed to them taking
a christian Wood flyer. But if you could get Gabe Vincent using your mL
E, I would use it on him rather than use it on I'm just
trying to like alternatives, and you could maybe it's easier for them to wind
up trading for a big in the middle of the season. I don't know
who becomes available. They could maybe even just look at filling him out with
the minimum. Or it's like, what does Dwight Powell actually cost you?
That was the name that just jumped out at me too. It's White Powell
as a backup. I don't have any problem with Dwight Powell have like a
lifetime contract under the table with the Mavericks though, probably yeah. But I
think the final question here to wrap up on them and keep us moving.
Do you you don't do what I don't want to put words about. Do
you expect them to continue down this path of we're not selling? I mean,
if it's true that they held onto bridges in the face of like a
four first round pick offer, I have to believe that they will continue down
that we are not selling path. I think, like I think the Nets
can afford to operate kind of conservatively because they just went so wild for a
few years with their with their whole roster building plan that it rings pretty true
to me, and I think they'll have the leeway to just kind of let's
let's take our time a little bit with this. I think I'm with you
on that one, which will bring us to our next team, which is
the New York Knicks. Their key free agents are only Josh Hart has a
thirteen million dollars player option. We all expect them to decline. Both Emmanuel
Quickly and Obi Toppin are extension eligible. Those negotiations, insofar as they happen,
will be pretty interesting looking at like just a snapshot of their cap situation.
They should be able to carry Josh Hart's hold and then use the bigger
mL E. And that's assuming they decline Derek Rose's team option. No notable
trade exceptions for them. I have their biggest need as shooting that cracks the
closing lineup, which is we can get into that. I feel like that's
fairly more complicated than people credit or just they needed top twenty player like they
need a I don't want to say that Jalen Brunson is so good. I
still firmly believe I'll say they need another star, but I actually think that
they need another best player. So what are you thinking about with this team
as we head into their off season. I think that when I was trying
to think of, well, what do they need, what can they get?
I came back to like a bigger question that I want to get your
take on. I'm curious what you think, so I'm gonna answer your question
with a question. I guess. Basically, it feels to me like,
yes, they need shooting that can close, Like that's clear. I just
wonder if the roster construction, specifically having Releas Randall and I mean Mitchell Robinson's
on a good deal. I'm wearing a shirt that apologizes to him, so
we don't have any there's no no uncertainty about that. It feels like Randall
and kind of do a lesser extent. R. J. Barrett sort of
make it really difficult to upgrade the team in the ways you'd want to upgrade
it, especially on the shooting front, because like, could you just like
get this isn't gonna happen. I'm just using it as an example because he's
top of mind, Like if Cam Johnson, we're in the Randall spot,
doesn't that doesn't that just make more sense? Doesn't that work better? Like
roster construction wise? I just I feel like Randall being there makes it hard
to build the type of the type of lineup you want to close games.
So is that like an oversimplification? Is that unfair? Is there another way
you can get the shooter out there that you need and that you want to
close games? In theory, if TIBs was willing to feel the different kind
of five, which is to say, could you try closing with Randall at
the five would be which I don't love that. No, So that's a
great point to think about. And I kind of always framed it as well.
When you look at who's guaranteed to be in there, it's Julius Randall
a big but Mitchell Robinson, let's say, and then Jalen Brunson and if
you technically have two spots, but you also have Josh Hart and Quickly and
RJ. Barrett and Quentin Grimes, and it's you need someone who very clearly
is going to usurp those guys. But I'm with you in the sense that
yeah, he could, because if you're not going to play Randall at the
five, then the only thing you could do is, Okay, well we
need a floors basing rim protector at the five, and they are like three
to five in the league, like legitimately, and we also know Tims doesn't
necessarily like to play those types of guys, which limit you even further.
That's why it's so tough though, to get shooting that cracks, because I
do think that you could you know, we'll get into targets like, but
maybe you could swing a sign and trade for Gary Trent Jr. And that's
great. I think he would be a good fit. I don't think he's
gonna necessarily he's not gonna crack every closing lineup. That's why I'm with default
to this team needs like that big time a was. It's not going to
be anyone in free agency who does that for them, because I feel like,
yes, they could get someone who will play and who can shoot,
but will that player also be one of their top five guys? Probably that's
the central problem, like because because even Gary Trent Junior is kind of like
a reach right for in terms of like what you could afford to go sign.
Yeah, for sure, they're like it would have to be a sign
and trade. Yeah, right, And he's not definitely gonna be the better
option than like Quickly or Barrett or even like Quentin Grimes night tonight, like
some nights maybe, but like that's not you don't stretch and you do a
bunch of crazy roster contortions to go get a guy that like kind of just
fits into that lump of well, this guy could close if if he's running
right and the matchups are favorable, Like that's just you just need to get
the guy that against anyone and everyone is in the closing lineup, and that's
that's a trade that that's just like that's a blockbuster trade. That's what that
has to be when you're getting into actual free agency targets as anyone stand out.
Again, we're not predicting anyone with crack the closing lineup based on who's
available and who they could afford, but any fits. Yeah, well you've
really swayed me with your their need for a capslock shooter. And Seth Curry
I think, is you know, his fifth all time among guys with a
lot of attempts from deep he falls into that same bucket of like he's not
definitely closing over quickly or whoever. So he's not a perfect fix. But
if you're just addressing the shooting, he's the free agent that like jumps to
mind. I like him more than someone like you know, other accurate guys
like Ingles or you know, Kevin Love or whatever. But like that doesn't
seth Curry doesn't move the needle, you know, I don't think so.
I'd be curious what you've got if you've got a free agent, or certainly
if you've got a trade. I would love to hear it. Oh man,
we can get into trades like just you should be well, my free
agent target would be Max Struss. I don't know is he gonna get more
than the mL E and I don't I don't think. I wouldn't predict him
to close games over, So you would have to close games over let's say
three of RJ. Barrett, Quentin Grimes, Manuel Quickly and Josh Hart.
I don't, no, it's not it's not implausible that because he has size,
he's not the biggest shive on defense. And if he if his three
pointers going, that's hyper valuable. Yeah, but you kind of get into
the one. I wouldn't guarantee it in two twelve million a year. Whatever
ends up being is that does he get more does he get less? Are
the heat less inclined to pay him because they have Duncan Robinson. I just
don't know whether he's in mle territory like or above it. It's hard to
say. I think the dimension he would bring, especially with his like movement
shooting, would be really helpful for the Knicks, I think. But but
again, like, it's not like he's a career like forty two percent three
point shooter. He's he's you know, he has some rough nights, and
that's we keep coming back, you know, to the same idea. You
just he's not that he's not the guy. He's not the star as good
or better than Brunson acquisition that I think you've been on them needing for,
like since before the Brunson deal. Really like, and what's so wild is
when you go through trade targets, some of the ones that I think the
capslock stars that are most like it will become available. I don't know that
you sit out those negotiations that they do become available, but they're no longer
players that you're like, well, the Knicks need to get them. If
it's Karl Anthony Towns. I don't like. You can't have Karl Anthony Towns
and Julius Randall on the same team, and so I guess you could be
moving Julius Randall's part of that deal. The other thing I'll say is,
even if they don't get a star, I would look at moving Randall.
I don't think it's the Knicks are gonna suck again if they don't trade Randall.
I don't think it's mission critical. I do wonder if for them to
be a contender, whether he can be a part of it. But if
they don't move him, I don't think it's the end of the world.
I think it's gonna end up. And I'll phrase it this way. I
would one hundred percent trade Julius Randall, probably for less than the Knicks would,
but I'm gonna end the off season. My level headed approach will be
I'll look back and say, I wish they've looked more thoroughly at moving Julius
Randalls than they did. I won't kill them for it, but I just
don't think they'll I guess that the right opportunity comes along, but I would
I don't like saying sell humans. That's terrible. But I would trade julie'
Jenold for a package that maybe isn't as immediately focused, because I think that
you'd be able to swing other moves or a place a lot of what he
can do. And so I don't think they're gonna do that though. And
but the names like Trey Young Dame Lillard because Jalen Brunson's there, it's yeah,
okay, I guess you could trade Jalen Brunson for one of them,
but are you you know, is it enough of enough grade to justify Okay,
we're going to consolidate on top of our best player. It's just a
weird spot to be in. And it's just like what other Yeah, okay,
Paul George for the shroster would be great. There's been no inclination that
he's available. Like things could go off the wall to New Orleans with Zion
Williamson and it's kind of like, okay, well you have to look at
it. But we just talked about how they need all their shooting and like
that's not gonna Zion Williams. So that's, of course an extreme example.
Are there any perspective available stars that like even if if Pascal Siakam becomes available,
is that someone who would intrigue you if you're you're in New York,
if there any big names that you could see feasibly, like even not even
super feasibly, but like within a long shot hitting the open market where it's
okay, like that's the guy the Knicks need to go after, because everyone
will say, oh, Devin Booker or shake Gil just Alexander, those are
guys that do not even fall in the million years bucket right now. And
so that's what's so tough about this exercise. No, I don't have any
I'm just trying to think, like, who's who's possibly trade? Well I
did have like the flash thought of like Clay Thompson. Maybe they're fine with
paying him a ton of money for one year, but then what are the
Knicks sending to the Warriors that would like I don't I just don't feel like
he's gonna be traded. Gosh, that's that's just I don't know. I
don't know. I don't have a good answer. I guess you just wait
for Donovan Mitchell to inevitably sign there in a couple of years. It's funny
because you've almost made it harder on yourself by being this good or the way
that your roster s you kind of need a very specific type of star now,
I would argue they need to play like the two, three or the
four and like that's like what everyone's looking for, right real quick? I'm
curious, I do you think either quickly or top and get extensions? Because
this isn't like they're not fissing restricted free agency? Like which is more likely
to get it? And what numbers are you okay with? Uh? Quickly?
I think probably between like fifteen and twenty is fine for quick quickly?
Right? Is that too high? Would you go? I think I'd be
okay with that. I mean he plays like a premium position as in a
concerning Yeah, Topping, though, I think is as a tricky one because
I'm not sure what his future is. I would be and I'm assuming you're
in the same camp. I would be shocked if Topping gets extended. I
don't know what the what what would be in it for the Knicks to extend
him, Like I think he's still because if he's repressing his value by staying
in a place where he's never going to average like more than seventeen or eighteen
minutes a game. Yeah, well, what does it take for him to
say to accept an extension? Then, not that the Knicks would offer it,
but like if he gets offered twelve million a year, does he take
it? Like? Is he doing better than that in restricted free agency next
summer? Probably have to take it if you're him, right, I don't
know. I just threw the number out. It's somewhere in that range,
I think because I couldn't. You know, I'm not going to roll the
dice if I'm not gonna take like mini mid level money. But I don't
know if twelve thirteen millions, if mid level money is on the table,
I don't know how you turn it down and bet on yourself when it's a
team that you don't see a pathway so long as Julius Randall's there to roll
expanding when the team won't bet on you, basically won't give you the opportunity,
I will say I don't think either of them are going to get extended
because I think that the Knicks are gonna want to keep their trade options open
throughout the season, and it's going to get I think quickly. It will
probably appeal to more teams, but it gets hard to move either one of
them if they sign those extensions extensions. Excuse me, our next team is
this mine or yours? I think I'll take it. I'll take it.
You had the Knicks because you're the Knicks expert, thoroughly uninteresting. This team
because it's just there's a fundamental question. Until we know the answer, I
don't know what to talk about. And it's the Sixers. They're key free
agents. Maybe you've heard James Harden as a player option, Jayalen McDaniels,
Paul Reid will be restricted, Shake Milton extension eligible, Harris Maxie. That's
an interesting one. And all right, and and then and that's like Harden's
Harden effects kind of everything. Their cap situation is tricky too. They if
Harden doesn't take doesn't get the max, they'll maybe have the mini mid level.
The full mid level opens up if he leaves, most likely so trade
exception. They have a small one from Mattisse Tibell. What's that that's bad?
If he leaves, right, you'd rather have James Harden than the full
Emily I'm assuming. I don't know how many years am I gonna have to
pay him. It's hard to say, uh so, yeah, this this
is like a one issue team right now. Nick Nurse is the new head
coach. That doesn't really affect a ton. He was very noncommittal. I
think when asked do you want James Harden to be back? He eventually said
yes, but it didn't seem like he was sure what was gonna happen.
I don't know that anybody is. So how about this, Let's start with
this. If you're the Sixers, what are you comfortable paying James Harden?
And is that going to be anywhere near enough to keep him from signing with
Houston? And relatedly, is the Houston thing total bullshit and the leverage play
or is there something? Is there some fire or the smoke? There has
to be fire to the smoke. I think that the ties to the city
are a big deal, and the fact that Houston is not gonna be circa
And maybe you like the Lakers young core more at this point, they're not
going to be Hey, let's bring Lebron in. See what we can do
with this young core for part of the season. If you get James Harmon,
I guarantee you they're making just swings because they don't own their draft picks
at that point, like so much of their future drafts are straight away.
They have all these other first that they can try and move around. So
I think there's real smoke there. I would So I'll first say I predict
him to stay in Philly. Would you agree with that? I ultimately think
that's where this ends up. I think probably both because of the I mean,
the money should be close, and because like if he really actually does
and as he said, care about winning a championship like you can't, it
doesn't square with leaving the Sixers certainly for the Rockets. Those are kind of
the two factors for me. I would love for a dark horse suitor just
to come out of left field. But that's the thing. I don't think
anybody wants to be in the paying James Harden forty plus million a year business.
Well, and so that's where would you rather? So ideally I think
it would end up at like four years and one hundred and forty million dollars,
So thirty five million dollars a year feels like it would be. I'd
be fine with that. Yeah, would you be willing to just inflate that
number? Like, let's say to forty, would you give him the max
if he was wont to sign for like three years or like forty five million,
if it's so three years in one hundred and thirty five, or would
you rather have the four years one sixty four years one fifty? I think
I just wanted to be a shorter deal, like if it's close, So
I think one year max the one? Yeah, well can I if you
oh man that if can we just do one plus ones indefinitely at the max?
Like I think I feel more comfortable about that. I just it's so
hard to know, like what he's willing to accept. It's so hard to
know what the sixers. It's just every aspect that they got a new coach.
You've got Darryl Moorey there who just loves James Harden. If you could,
if you said three years, what was your number? Three years for
like one hundred and thirty five, so that I mean basically the max were
three years for one hundred and thirty let's say, so it's over forty per,
I'd do that. I think if I'm if that's what it takes to
keep him, I'd love to have like you'd never get it. But like
a team option or an incentive, you know, heavily incentive ized thirty years,
an option or a partial guarantee. It's happening on the fourth year,
definitely, I have it on the third year. I would think, I
mean, if you give me, fine, if you want to call it
a four year deal, James, but it's a team option on the fourth
we can do that. We could do that. That's fine. What is
your average ideal average annual VOT Is it like a lot lower? I'm talking
about not even trying to be realistic, but is it? Oh, I
wouldn't pay him more? Are you at? I wouldn't play more than thirty
million a year or something like fundamentally, what is he worth? Value wise?
Basically, what do you make this year? Like thirty six he opted
out and yeah, he took and he took to his credit that by the
way, that is part of the calculus. Year that's like you, we
didn't bring it up. That was a great point by you. So he's
at thirty five point six this past year he accepted like fifteen million dollars less
than he needed to or whatever it was, And that's going to be part
of the calculus. There's a winker handshake involved in that. I don't care
what the tampering investigation revealed. So yeah, I mean, I think that's
a decent number, like thirty third, mid thirties for because he was,
you know, he he was a good offensive player this year like he did
at thirty three this year. I'm looking at his player options. It was
like twelve plus or fourteen plus million last he accepted. Whatever, that's a
steal, I'm okay, And I think he's probably worth He's not worth the
max. I don't think anything close to that. But if you're in the
thirties, were like we could, we could come to an agreement there.
And I wonder if the new CBA has given teams cover in these situations where
you would default to, well, this is the name. Look at what
he's done. He's gonna get the max. But now it's gonna change how
ownership in front office is view team building. And I think that this is
a consequence where yeah, I'm most I think it's gonna trickle down onto the
mid level or less NBA players and they're gonna get fucked. But could this
be a situation where aging stars they're not going to sign shorter term deals because
once they get out of them, they're not guaranteed to get the full max
as as they as likely as they were previously. Yeah, no, I
think that's an interesting angle. MAXI extension we're doing him that starts at like
thirty six million, I think round thirty five point nine. I think you
probably would have to to get him to sign, don't you think like he's
not. I don't know that he's signing for less. I don't know if
that answers That doesn't answer your question. If he was to get the four
year max, you're looking at like four years and one hundred and sixty million
dollars or whatever it is. I'll have to bring my max calculator up since
I have it in there. But well, oh yeah, if I'm him,
I'm saying, what did Jordan Pool get one? I mean one twenty
one forty, So that's we'll start there. That's the floor. Did I
just flame out in the playoffs? Like if I like that, I quit
through the year basically? Yeah, so it's four years in one hundred and
sixty point two million is his max? I think i'd probably I would you
offer it? Or is it just like well, we're gonna wait till restricted
free agency. Then it's I don't know that he's worth that. Like if
you're just talking about value, he might. If if Harden leaves, I
think you probably gotta do it right, like you just there's that's that settles
it for you. But I think based on the market, like the Hero
contract, the Simons contract, the Pool contract, those and Maxie those are
like the four guys we kind of weirdly lumped together. I think he just
has to get more than all those guys. And so that doesn't leave you
a lot of room short of the max based on what some of those guys
got, So you would expect him to get more than thirty million. I
think so. I think so. And if Hardon leaves, there's no time,
there's no cap on it, like he's just tolding what. Yeah.
So if Harden stays, what are the biggest needs you're looking at for the
roster of any names? That's and that's if he stays, that's I don't
even know how to tackle their offseason. We're gonna be done in thirty seconds
with this team because it's so confusing. If he stays, what do we
need here? I know you had Nick Batoum as a as a potential trade
target, like another you know, a bigger wing slash forward type. I
had de Vincenzo as a free agent target. I get another one that I
really liked for this team. You're gonna have to remind me because I never
remember what I say Trey Lyles. Oh yeah, Trey Lyles to get you,
just to give you a different dimension, Like I don't now I'm remembering
what I said. Thank you for the prompt. I don't know how successfully
you're going to get away with Lyles at the five defensively, but I'd be
willing to try it because he would give you some five out stuff if you
really wanted to. That might make Maxie really scary with a you know,
totally empty floor. Just give you some different looks, I think, I
mean, I don't know. I think he's probably a much more than a
minimum player, So like that's that makes it tricky. But I like the
idea of a really like different look as a backup big as Blown's pointing out
again, I would love to see like a Bruce Brown type on this team.
But they're gonna unless Harden leaves. That's a no. So the two
names I have kind of are in between, like the big and the wing.
You don't want an abbi like just get someone's gonna drill corner threes,
move around defensively. And then he was injured for most of this season,
but he's had a good run. Javante Green can defend like pretty much almost
every position. At this point. You use him as a back up big,
you use him as kind of wing player. Will he hit enough of
his threes? That's certainly a question, But the threes you're gonna generate in
lineups if hardens on the court and still playing the part of primary playmaker,
if they make a bigger splash though it's happening on the trade market, I
just don't know how they make, Like you have to bias Harris's salary,
but you just don't have a ton of pick equity here to move around.
And so there's even like I know people floated like, well, would you
try to get like a Bradby Beal or something. It's just I don't know,
can you get And if you are, you're giving up Maxie as part
of that. And so I just the fun amount of question is will James
Harden be back and I think he will be. That's where I'll land on
the Sixers. Yeah, I'll agree with that. You want to take us
to the Raptors, our last team in the division, Yeah, let's let's
do it. So the Toronto Raptors key free agents Van Fleet and Gary Trent
Junior have player options and then Yaka Peurdle extension eligible candidates. Two interesting ones
here to me, Ogna Nobi. He's eligible for a four year roughly one
hundred and seventeen million dollars max extension. Pascal Siakam is about four years and
one hundred and eighty one point one million dollars. Their tap situation is weird
because we're factoring in all these free agents. I have them as a mini
MLI team. But if you keep Peardle, Van Fleet and GTJ, depending
on how much they get, you could run into some second apron awkwardness.
For sure, I'll stay there and then no notable trade exceptions for them their
biggest needs. I actually my list was actually pretty well for this team.
Shooting, ball, handling, advantage, creation and bench depths. All I
didn't new head coach as of this recording last team with that one. So
what are you thinking about with this team. I guess the place we have
to start is there. Do we start with the extension eligible guys first,
or no, the free agents and four more of what they're doing right,
Yeah, I think so. I mean, this will surprise no one who
has heard me just you know, be incredibly conservative in my roster building kind
of bent starting with Van Vleet and Trent Junior. I think I think if
I'm Toronto, because the market sucks and like I just replacing these guys through
free agency would be so difficult, I think I'd bring them both backs,
so long as we're not assuming there's just an absurd premium on especially Van Vleet.
You bring them back, you have your backcourt set, you can trade
them later. Like I just think preserving the asset kind of matters there,
and there's just not good enough replacements. I think you're committed to bringing Peartle
back, so you're kind of you're running it back. And I think the
reason I'm sort of okay with that is you're going to have a new head
coach. And I do think there's a distinct possibility that whether it was nurse
fault, whether it was the roster's fault, whether it was whatever, like
just a different mixture between coach and team. Could you know, whether you
go position list, whether you go conventional. I just think it's worth seeing
what this personnel could do if coached by somebody different before you start like swapping
out a bunch of parts and really doing things the complicated way. So I
don't know what my numbers are for Van Vleet. I think anything over like
twenty six twenty seventy year feels a little iffy to me. And he's a
little older too, so and he's a small guard. They never age well,
so if you go full like four years, that's that gets scary.
Trent is kind of more fungible, like if you let somebody walk, it
would probably beat him. Like he's the most likely of the three to leave,
right, Yeah, I think so, and weirdly he'd I mean,
I guess I don't know what Purple's market would be, but I don't think
there's a super hot market for Trent, just because he's really kind of a
pure too, and like that's kind of an out of favor position more unless
you're a contagious called will Pope and you're just the best that being appeared to
Yeah, I don't know. Do you feel differently about that, Like are
you because the alternative is you kind of just you sign and trade, You
let these guys walk and you figure out what to do on the margins to
replace them. Doesn't That doesn't strike me as as good an option. No,
I feel like they're more likely to do everything you said. And maybe
maybe something happens with Gary Trent Junior or signed and trade or they let him
walk. And his number is interesting. I don't know that he'll get a
huge raise if he declines his player options. We all assume is there a
team that's going to give him more than eighteen point eight million. Maybe it's
just the same amount of money over longer years. But I think you run
it back and if you need to do something nuclear when looking at blowing it
up, that's a decision you can make closer to the trade deadline or maybe
even next offseason when you're gonna have another Well, it's a natural pivot point,
but it's maybe one you don't want to get to because og and nobody's
an actual free agent and I don't know if he signs his extension Siakam,
I think like that's what makes it so their extensions starting with that ABI four
years in one hundred and seventeen million, I offer it. Do you think
he would sign it? I don't think it's enough. I think I think
free agencies they're out for him because I mean, that's it's not way too
low. But it's not if we're being honest. And I don't like saying
this necessarily about players because it feels over the group. But to me,
he's become one of the most overrated players in the NBA, and so that's
a number i'd be comfortable paying him. I don't know how much high I'd
want to go. I just haven't seen the offensive development from him. Enough
of it anyway. I think I agree with you insofar as the like offensive
leap we were hoping for for like three or four years running, I don't
think he is there. I think he's a premium, premium role player and
as long as he thinks that, which which there's some uncertainty about that,
I don't know. I don't know if he accepts that he's not like a
guy that can clan a cannon should do more offensively with the ball. If
he's okay with that, I think a premium role player who can guard everywhere
and can make spot up threes like that's that's probably worth close to thirty like
I have a year. You know, maybe if there's better spacing, he
does improve offensively, like they haven't necessarily surrounded him with Christine spacing. Great
great point, Yeah, great point. No, So what about Siakam.
I think we agree that that's not probably probably not quite enough for an and
Obi to accept, and we'll go to free agency. Siakam is older,
h one eighty one. That's a lot of money. I think I think
that's closer to being acceptable. But I'm curious where you're at on that.
I'd take it if I were him, if everything, give me the full
four year boat on it, because like you said, he is older,
and I'm curious how his game ages, and so I don't know if I'm
Toronto, if I'm offering it, it's just because then you're but with him
going into free agency. I don't really want to risk it either, But
you're shoehorning yourself into this very specific construct. So I think I would ultimately
offer both these extensions. I think Siakam's more likely to accept it. I
don't know if either of them accept it though. Yeah, and I think
if you're talking about you were alluding to this a little bit, looking for
like route out of this roster. If you bring back van Fleet and Trent
and it just like it looks the same. I think even certainly at both
of these extension numbers, and Anobe in particular, I think Siakam and Anonobe
would be movable for like at least neutral value, certainly Annaobe probably Annobe probably
for positive value. Siakam, I think if you traded him early in this
deal, this hypothetical four for one eighty one that we have, I think
he's probably getting you like, you're not having to attach anything to get off
that. I wouldn't think, So that's your way out if this doesn't work
well. And again, it's probably better to have these guys. That's slight
for Siakam because we've agreed that an Andobe, if you bring him back at
his extension number, you'd be totally comfortable with that. But for Siakam,
like, I think it's better to preserve the asset than to let him get
to free agency, because then that just raises a whole new suite of like
not great possibility and there's probably the argument for me that hey, Siakam is
more valuable to you as a trade asset if he's on this longer deal.
Then if you have the movement of mine and he's headed towards free agency,
for sure, Yeah you're I mean, then then I don't know what you're
getting for him. If you're trading him in like February of his expiring deal,
that's that's not going to bring back nearly as much any free agents or
even if you want to go trade target stand out to you is good fits
for this team. Give Yeah, depending on what they do. I'll jump
to the trade idea, Like if van Fleet's gone and you want to change
it up, I think there's a real there's a pretty clear Anna Obi as
the principle for Anthony Simons, and and maybe a pick or sharp or something
like between Portland and Toronto. There's there's stuff you could get done. I
mean, And since we're always talking about them in conjunction with each other,
like do the is Jordan Pool and Jonathan cominga enough to get ann and Obi
and somebody? Do the Raptors even want to do that? This all probably
presumes that van Fleet is gone you're not trading for another small offense first guard
if he's still there. Probably, But the free agent side of things are
is a little murkier for me because this roster is so weird and we don't
know who's gonna be on it. The trade possibilities are all over the place
though. For the Raptors, yeah, I'd be curious, Like if Molik
Beasley's team option gets declined in LA, I'm wondering where that ends up.
T J. Warren would be a good fit for this team. Max Druce.
I don't know if they could get to the bigger MLA, so that
would be tough, but he would have been or would be a really good
fit for them. They could be a Dario Charge team. I kind of
thought about, do you like want another like kind of guy who could play
the four or the five coming off the bench, and they just need bench
depth in general. So those are kind of the names I have. They're
just all their splashes are gonna come by retaining their own. For Naz Reid
would be a great fit too. They just can't afford them. Maybe all
these players they can't afford. You want to you want to hear more Raptor
free agents. The Raptors can't afford grant. I've got a bunch of them.
I think their splashes will come with retaining their own players, and if
there's any real fireworks, it'll be on the trade market. They might be
the most interesting team in this division, though leading into the to the off
season they certainly have like some of the most unsettled situation like no coach,
I don't know what your backcourt's going to be. I don't know if your
two best forwards are going to be traded or extended like it's it's all over
the place for them. Do you want to take us out of here?
Sure? So that's your Atlantic Division preview and a lot of other interesting topics.
Thank you everybody for listening, for commenting, for checking in with us.
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