1 00:00:28,640 --> 00:00:31,640 Hello, and welcome to the show. I'm Martin Wildish, your host. 2 00:00:31,679 --> 00:00:36,840 I'm real excited about tonight's show. We have doctor Jacques Valet on for the 3 00:00:36,880 --> 00:00:44,000 first half hour, and we have a gentleman named Alan Stibleman coming on after 4 00:00:44,119 --> 00:00:48,920 that. We're gonna be talking about a film that was made about a very 5 00:00:48,960 --> 00:00:55,240 important Argentinean case. And the name of the movie that's coming out on October 6 00:00:55,399 --> 00:01:00,719 twenty second is called Witness of Another World, and I have watched it myself 7 00:01:02,200 --> 00:01:06,719 and it's a great movie. Now, as far as our guests, Jacques 8 00:01:06,799 --> 00:01:12,120 Valet probably doesn't need much of an introduction in the UFO world, I would 9 00:01:12,159 --> 00:01:17,599 have to say this that for all the guests I could ever have on the 10 00:01:17,680 --> 00:01:23,159 show, I would say that he is the number one guest that I'm excited 11 00:01:23,200 --> 00:01:26,920 about having on. So welcome to the show, Jack, Thank you. 12 00:01:27,040 --> 00:01:36,000 I'm humbled by by that introduction. Sometimes I joke that I'm the only only 13 00:01:36,079 --> 00:01:40,359 euchologists who doesn't know what UFOs are. Because I've studied, as you know, 14 00:01:40,400 --> 00:01:45,799 a lot of cases, going back to working with doctor Heineck of course, 15 00:01:45,920 --> 00:01:52,280 and and also working with people in France and in Europe. I don't 16 00:01:52,359 --> 00:02:00,079 have a favor in explanation. Obviously, the outer space extractor. Restrial explanation 17 00:02:00,439 --> 00:02:07,199 is always a possibility, it's always there. But I've occasionally made enemies by 18 00:02:07,240 --> 00:02:14,879 pointing out there were other things that the phenomenon did that did not didn't match 19 00:02:15,000 --> 00:02:20,280 any any hypothesis we have yet, which is where science takes over. I 20 00:02:20,319 --> 00:02:23,639 mean, that's why it's interizing. I think that's that's true. I remember 21 00:02:23,759 --> 00:02:29,680 when we met and Phoenix, we were in line together at the hotel and 22 00:02:29,759 --> 00:02:34,479 I said to you something along the lines that I've been doing my show for 23 00:02:34,520 --> 00:02:38,960 a number of years now and I know less than I did about UFOs, 24 00:02:38,000 --> 00:02:42,919 and when I started, it just seems like it's such a mystery. And 25 00:02:43,759 --> 00:02:47,560 I really like that you don't have anyone explanation. And that's kind of the 26 00:02:47,599 --> 00:02:53,719 benefit of doing this show is hearing people's ideas, because that's really all they 27 00:02:53,759 --> 00:02:59,319 are at this point is just ideas. Well. We see new ideas, 28 00:02:59,439 --> 00:03:04,360 fortunately, kay, but we also see new new pieces of data, a 29 00:03:04,439 --> 00:03:08,919 new phenomena that are being uncovered as more and more people become involved. And 30 00:03:09,000 --> 00:03:15,560 that's uh, you know, that's how research functions, right right for now, 31 00:03:15,599 --> 00:03:21,080 you you had a sighting very early on in your life over in France. 32 00:03:21,120 --> 00:03:23,560 Do you want France? Do you want to talk a little bit about 33 00:03:23,599 --> 00:03:29,960 that? And just kind of give go ahead. This was the year after 34 00:03:30,560 --> 00:03:37,400 a major wave over western Europe in nineteen fifty four. I was about sixteen 35 00:03:37,439 --> 00:03:43,639 at the time. This was during the summer vacation. Very clear afternoon, 36 00:03:44,800 --> 00:03:51,199 Sunday afternoon. I was helping my father with some work inside the house, 37 00:03:51,280 --> 00:03:57,319 and my mother was in the yard tending to you know, the yard, 38 00:03:57,719 --> 00:04:03,080 and she so at first and us and I rushed out and I saw essentially 39 00:04:03,199 --> 00:04:10,960 a disc that was something like half a mile away I would estimate close to 40 00:04:11,560 --> 00:04:15,240 and I had a reference as a church, a needle, you know, 41 00:04:15,319 --> 00:04:23,600 that was very very clearly about half a mile away, and the object seemed 42 00:04:23,639 --> 00:04:29,680 to be in that vicinity above the church. The next day I spoke to 43 00:04:29,720 --> 00:04:33,160 a friend of mine from school who lived another half mile up the hill from 44 00:04:33,160 --> 00:04:38,279 me. He had seen the same thing and had looked at it with Binoculus, 45 00:04:38,360 --> 00:04:43,759 who had three witnesses. It was. It looked like a shiny disc 46 00:04:43,839 --> 00:04:48,279 with a domont up, you know, pretty much what so many people have 47 00:04:48,519 --> 00:04:55,160 described. And at the time we didn't report it. There was no real 48 00:04:55,279 --> 00:05:00,040 place to report it, and we saw that it might be a pototype of 49 00:05:00,199 --> 00:05:06,439 something that would eventually become known, and of course that never happened. There 50 00:05:06,519 --> 00:05:13,639 is no such there is no such craft in existence frying around today, right 51 00:05:13,839 --> 00:05:16,000 right. Um. You know that's one of the arguments you hear a lot 52 00:05:16,519 --> 00:05:21,360 as far as you know, people will talk today about seeing, for instance, 53 00:05:21,360 --> 00:05:26,680 the nimitsum Ufo case of TikTok Ufo. People will say, well, 54 00:05:26,720 --> 00:05:30,199 that's you know, that's that's military. But these things have been having this 55 00:05:30,399 --> 00:05:34,240 same type of behavior, you know, going way back as you know, 56 00:05:34,560 --> 00:05:38,680 And you know, that's one of the arguments you never hear too many people 57 00:05:38,720 --> 00:05:45,240 talk about is that, you know, these strange uh craft doing unbelievable things 58 00:05:45,319 --> 00:05:48,160 have been around for a long time. And you know, one of the 59 00:05:48,199 --> 00:05:51,560 things you hear about the most or I don't want to say the most, 60 00:05:51,560 --> 00:05:57,920 but you do hear a lot of as the triangle UFOs, and there's you 61 00:05:57,959 --> 00:06:01,720 know, there's cases that go way back. I just spoke to someone recently 62 00:06:01,800 --> 00:06:05,800 that back in the nineteen seventies saw a triangle. You know, it was 63 00:06:06,120 --> 00:06:10,600 her words, not mine, you know, So they it's not like they're 64 00:06:10,639 --> 00:06:14,480 a new model that comes out. But the disc sir, sure seemed like 65 00:06:15,000 --> 00:06:19,319 um most people were seeing back in the day. Well, I know, 66 00:06:19,600 --> 00:06:25,920 you know you're going to be speaking with Alan Siebelman about that movie that was 67 00:06:26,560 --> 00:06:31,480 done in about the case in Argentina. That's what is so unique about that 68 00:06:31,759 --> 00:06:36,199 case is that there is no you know, it's not military, doesn't have 69 00:06:36,279 --> 00:06:41,480 to do with you know, the CIA or cover up or an aircraft carrier 70 00:06:41,720 --> 00:06:45,959 or the Pentagon or any of that that we like to talk about, you 71 00:06:46,000 --> 00:06:50,720 know in the US. It's a case of a you know, a young 72 00:06:50,759 --> 00:06:58,040 boy, twelve year old boy on an isolated farm. It was very flat, 73 00:06:58,600 --> 00:07:05,040 non descript out of the country, suddenly being confronted with something completely extraordinary. 74 00:07:05,240 --> 00:07:09,839 There is no there is no explanation. I mean, this was not 75 00:07:10,519 --> 00:07:14,360 military, this was not a hoax, this was not any of that. 76 00:07:15,000 --> 00:07:21,000 And we were able to document the circumstances extremely well. And what is unique 77 00:07:21,000 --> 00:07:28,199 in the whole history of the phenomenon is that we were able to document his 78 00:07:28,319 --> 00:07:33,160 life, what happened to him in the rest of his life, right and 79 00:07:33,279 --> 00:07:43,199 including things that continued, phenomena that continued when he was an adult. Right 80 00:07:43,240 --> 00:07:50,040 now in the area that one was located. Most likely he had never even 81 00:07:50,120 --> 00:07:55,319 heard of any type of situation like that or at the time, no. 82 00:07:55,680 --> 00:08:03,399 And I had met people from Argentina at a conference actually in Mexico, and 83 00:08:03,439 --> 00:08:09,040 they had invited me to lecture in five cities in Argentina and they said, 84 00:08:09,079 --> 00:08:13,839 by the way, you have to lecture in Spanish, which sent me back 85 00:08:13,879 --> 00:08:20,680 to my books and made me. You know, re relearned enough Spanish so 86 00:08:20,759 --> 00:08:26,959 that I could do a reasonable job of presenting presenting the phenomenon. But then 87 00:08:28,000 --> 00:08:33,159 I said, if I do that, I want to spend one extra day, 88 00:08:33,480 --> 00:08:37,480 have a free day after each lecture in every As you know, Argentina 89 00:08:37,960 --> 00:08:43,720 is a very large country. It's the size of Western Europe, and there 90 00:08:43,720 --> 00:08:48,759 were these five different regions, were very different, and they agreed to let 91 00:08:48,799 --> 00:08:58,399 me meet local investigators UFO investigators in those different provinces, spending an extra day 92 00:08:58,000 --> 00:09:03,440 everywhere before he moved to the next city. And that was extraordinary because of 93 00:09:03,440 --> 00:09:07,639 course I was exposed to a lot of different phenomena, a lot of different 94 00:09:07,639 --> 00:09:13,679 cases that they had already investigated, and this was one of them. And 95 00:09:13,799 --> 00:09:18,679 this was in the north of Argentina, in the province called Entre rios between 96 00:09:18,679 --> 00:09:26,840 the rivers, which is really in the it's purely and agricultural area is very 97 00:09:26,919 --> 00:09:37,000 flat, and this happened on an isolated farmhouse, isolated and fancier, where 98 00:09:37,200 --> 00:09:43,320 this young boy was charged with taking care of the horses. And in the 99 00:09:43,960 --> 00:09:50,399 morning he had to round up the herd and bring them close to the farmhouse 100 00:09:50,440 --> 00:09:54,879 to feed them and so on. And as he went out there was a 101 00:09:54,919 --> 00:10:03,879 lot of fog over the land and in the was this extraordinary object. Now 102 00:10:03,120 --> 00:10:09,120 I met him two years after his experience. So by the time I met 103 00:10:09,200 --> 00:10:13,519 him, he was fourteen. My wife was with me, and my wife 104 00:10:13,120 --> 00:10:22,960 was French. She was a child psychologist. And also the school teacher from 105 00:10:22,320 --> 00:10:28,320 the school where the child went was with the family. They gathered everybody, 106 00:10:28,960 --> 00:10:33,960 so the investigators were there the family. I met his father, his mother, 107 00:10:33,440 --> 00:10:39,159 his siblings, and the school teacher and my wife has a code a 108 00:10:39,200 --> 00:10:43,679 conversation with the school teacher. And the child was a good student. He 109 00:10:43,879 --> 00:10:50,759 wasn't the best student in the class. That he was still very serious, 110 00:10:50,960 --> 00:10:54,799 very applied, didn't fly, didn't make up stories. And by the way, 111 00:10:56,000 --> 00:10:58,519 when you met his father, who was a true gout show, that 112 00:10:58,799 --> 00:11:05,919 was pretty clear that you would joke around around his father. I know there's 113 00:11:05,000 --> 00:11:11,879 a there's a part in the movie where he is I think he actually goes 114 00:11:11,960 --> 00:11:16,240 to some type of conference or meeting or something like that, and it comes 115 00:11:16,279 --> 00:11:20,039 time for him to tell his story and he just gets super emotional and he 116 00:11:20,159 --> 00:11:24,720 just can't do it. You just bring it down. Yes, the whole 117 00:11:24,720 --> 00:11:31,720 movie shows That's what I know is very powerful because it shows something that you 118 00:11:31,759 --> 00:11:35,480 know, we don't talk about very much in the literature, but the impact 119 00:11:35,519 --> 00:11:41,440 on the witness that this is something that's completely outside their reality. And by 120 00:11:41,440 --> 00:11:46,200 the way, it's outside our reality, our everyday reality. And I know 121 00:11:46,639 --> 00:11:50,919 just what I saw when I was you know, when I was a kid 122 00:11:50,519 --> 00:11:56,480 has stayed with me all my life. It probably motivated me to to get 123 00:11:56,559 --> 00:12:01,840 into this kind of research. And I know many people who were motivated the 124 00:12:01,919 --> 00:12:07,679 same way. And here Alan contacted me. Alan is a young, you 125 00:12:07,720 --> 00:12:13,559 know, young filmmaker, an artist in Argentina. He contacted me three years 126 00:12:13,559 --> 00:12:20,159 ago saying he had was working on some other ideas and had met this man, 127 00:12:20,320 --> 00:12:28,200 who by then was in his late fallies up in an isolated shark essentially 128 00:12:28,240 --> 00:12:35,519 a cabin at north in Argentina. Living essentially alone with his animals, very 129 00:12:35,519 --> 00:12:43,159 close to nature, very poor, hiring himself out to local landowners and local 130 00:12:43,240 --> 00:12:50,679 farmers to work around the farm. And he had this incredible story, and 131 00:12:50,799 --> 00:12:54,879 it was a story that I had. I had published a summary of it 132 00:12:54,360 --> 00:13:01,799 in one of my books, in a book called Revelations. And Alan wanted 133 00:13:01,879 --> 00:13:05,639 to come to San Francisco and interview me about you know, what it was 134 00:13:05,720 --> 00:13:11,799 like when I met the family here, and I met this this teenager who 135 00:13:11,840 --> 00:13:15,840 had had that experience, And I said, well, Alan, do you 136 00:13:15,919 --> 00:13:20,519 know about the other cases the same week in the same town. And he 137 00:13:20,600 --> 00:13:24,759 said, what other cases, Well, there were three other cases by adults, 138 00:13:24,879 --> 00:13:30,399 young adults in the same town of then adult Erto and that I had 139 00:13:30,440 --> 00:13:35,600 documented in my report. And I said, well, let's do two things. 140 00:13:35,600 --> 00:13:37,519 First, I'm going to send you my five the whole file, which 141 00:13:37,600 --> 00:13:43,559 was about twenty or twenty five pages, including photographs I had taken at the 142 00:13:43,639 --> 00:13:48,360 time, and my interview of everybody there. And then I said, if 143 00:13:48,399 --> 00:13:54,279 I could come to Buenos Aires, we could close the circle with him, 144 00:13:54,399 --> 00:14:01,919 and maybe the encounter with me coming back from his past would help reunite the 145 00:14:03,000 --> 00:14:07,159 family, because by then he was ostracized, he was pushed back by the 146 00:14:07,240 --> 00:14:15,519 family because his experience was so strange, and also, you know, help 147 00:14:15,639 --> 00:14:22,600 him sort of closer circle in his own mind. And it would also help 148 00:14:22,679 --> 00:14:28,960 me because this was very emotional to me. And you'll see that in the 149 00:14:28,080 --> 00:14:33,840 movie. You know, I'm not I'm not a movie actor, and you 150 00:14:33,879 --> 00:14:37,480 can see that. I was very, very moved in meeting him again and 151 00:14:37,600 --> 00:14:45,360 in revisiting the family, and I think we did a great job of helping 152 00:14:45,480 --> 00:14:50,559 him. And I think you were to see in the movies his transformation from 153 00:14:50,639 --> 00:14:56,720 you know, being hunted by the phenomenon which is still around him, and 154 00:14:56,759 --> 00:15:01,200 then emerging from it with much more confidence. Son, And that's that's really 155 00:15:01,240 --> 00:15:05,919 what the movie is all about, right, And this dramatic situation that he 156 00:15:05,960 --> 00:15:09,639 had at sung at such a young age, you know, I imagine in 157 00:15:09,679 --> 00:15:15,600 some ways rather stunted him. And um, you know, he he became 158 00:15:15,960 --> 00:15:18,759 he becomes emotional quite a few times, um during the movie. But you're 159 00:15:18,879 --> 00:15:24,480 right, you can see a transformation. And I really like when the story 160 00:15:24,559 --> 00:15:28,159 focuses on the people, and I think Allan did a very nice job with 161 00:15:28,240 --> 00:15:33,120 that. I'd like to quote a paraphrase because I don't know it exactly, 162 00:15:33,200 --> 00:15:39,120 but there was a line you said, um during this movie such as, 163 00:15:39,480 --> 00:15:43,919 um, we see things as kind of a display, an exhibition of images. 164 00:15:45,639 --> 00:15:50,480 Uh. Back from like your background of subconscious Um, that's one of 165 00:15:50,519 --> 00:15:54,600 the thoughts you have on what people are seeing. Would you mind explaining that 166 00:15:54,679 --> 00:16:00,440 just a little bit, a little bit, yes, you know the by 167 00:16:00,840 --> 00:16:07,320 doctor Salisbury in Utah who has done so much. Professor Salisbury wrote a book 168 00:16:07,320 --> 00:16:12,000 about the sightings in northern Utah, and he was of course a professor of 169 00:16:12,039 --> 00:16:22,120 biology at Utah State that in the University of Utah who did really the first 170 00:16:22,440 --> 00:16:27,639 very thorough assessment of the sightings there, including the Eye of the famous ranch 171 00:16:27,759 --> 00:16:34,960 by the way, and his book was called the utah Ufo Display because he 172 00:16:36,440 --> 00:16:41,759 the people that he interviewed, both the you know, people from the moment 173 00:16:41,840 --> 00:16:48,559 population and the Indian population in Utah, were describing something that wasn't so much 174 00:16:48,639 --> 00:16:53,919 mechanical. You know, we like to think in terms of technology, like 175 00:16:55,159 --> 00:17:00,279 you know, around the limits and so one. But those things can really 176 00:17:00,399 --> 00:17:06,720 display themselves in a whole variety of different things as if they could they could 177 00:17:06,839 --> 00:17:12,079 paint an image of themselves and they can look technological one moment and then turn 178 00:17:12,160 --> 00:17:18,519 into just a ball of light that goes through a wall. And this is 179 00:17:18,599 --> 00:17:22,920 not any any technology we have, Okay, this is so that idea of 180 00:17:22,960 --> 00:17:30,000 the display is very important and you have to go beyond the obvious technological interpretations. 181 00:17:30,640 --> 00:17:37,359 And before I went to so Alan agreed to that I could come to 182 00:17:37,519 --> 00:17:42,720 Argentina instead of his coming to San Francisco, and I spent about ten days 183 00:17:42,759 --> 00:17:49,000 there. But before I when there, I relearned enough Spanish so that I 184 00:17:49,039 --> 00:17:53,079 could speak one on one with one and you'll see that in the movie Their 185 00:17:53,119 --> 00:17:57,079 Parts, where the shows the two of us together. Because I didn't want 186 00:17:57,160 --> 00:18:03,200 to get into that aspect of it with an interpreter. I wanted to hear 187 00:18:04,519 --> 00:18:10,880 his own words and I wanted to speak with him in his own language because 188 00:18:10,920 --> 00:18:15,759 it's just so, you know, so important, and I think that helped 189 00:18:15,880 --> 00:18:19,680 us also in closing that circle that I was. You know, I wanted 190 00:18:19,720 --> 00:18:27,480 to be really close, following his emotions, and you know, I don't 191 00:18:27,519 --> 00:18:33,240 cry as easily as he as he does, but then I haven't had that 192 00:18:33,359 --> 00:18:41,559 kind of experience, but it was obviously emotional for me as well, right 193 00:18:41,720 --> 00:18:45,799 right, Yes, I was actually pretty impressed with your Spanish and you did 194 00:18:45,799 --> 00:18:49,319 pretty well. And I will tell the listener that watching the movie, don't 195 00:18:49,359 --> 00:18:56,039 feel it's a hindrance to have this movie because in Spanish, because there is 196 00:18:56,079 --> 00:19:00,319 some Spanish with subtitles, but the majority of the movie is in English. 197 00:19:00,480 --> 00:19:04,000 Um so, and it's very easy to follow all the way through. And 198 00:19:04,519 --> 00:19:11,200 some interesting people. Um did you re meet any of the people besides one 199 00:19:11,240 --> 00:19:15,480 when you were there that you had met before? Well, I was delighted 200 00:19:15,559 --> 00:19:25,319 to meet his family again, and it was wonderful to help that's not in 201 00:19:25,359 --> 00:19:30,559 the movie, but to help reunite him in a way emotionally with his family 202 00:19:30,920 --> 00:19:37,839 because the fact that we were there filming his experience and the fact that I 203 00:19:37,920 --> 00:19:41,319 came back and they had they remembered me. His father and his mother are 204 00:19:41,359 --> 00:19:45,599 still alive. Of course, his siblings are now you know, older, 205 00:19:45,640 --> 00:19:52,880 they are adults, adults. So it helped reconnect in a way, reconnect 206 00:19:52,880 --> 00:20:00,200 the family and I could to joke with his father and it was it was 207 00:20:00,240 --> 00:20:04,200 wonderful. It was joyful, you know. Just to give you an anecdote, 208 00:20:04,240 --> 00:20:07,759 and again it's not in the movie, but next part of the human 209 00:20:07,799 --> 00:20:14,839 experience, his father has a felt hat, you know, like not exactly 210 00:20:14,839 --> 00:20:18,920 a cowboy hat, but a gouge show hat. And I had a picture 211 00:20:18,480 --> 00:20:22,200 I had brought my pictures of the days when I was there, you know, 212 00:20:23,000 --> 00:20:27,160 thirty five years before, and he had had a hat the same heat. 213 00:20:27,759 --> 00:20:32,960 So I told him self, miss sombrero, you know, it's the 214 00:20:33,079 --> 00:20:37,079 same hat. And he laughed, and you know, it was just so 215 00:20:37,240 --> 00:20:41,319 nice, you know that he laughed because it was the same hat. And 216 00:20:42,319 --> 00:20:47,240 go out the little things, you know that you have to spend the time 217 00:20:47,279 --> 00:20:52,480 you have to. And so often in the US, you know, when 218 00:20:52,640 --> 00:20:57,359 when there is an investigation done, a couple of investigators go there and they 219 00:20:57,400 --> 00:21:03,440 go there with a questionnaire and they fill out the questionnaire with the witness and 220 00:21:03,519 --> 00:21:11,079 it's so very abstract and the scientific ecological, But those experiences are not logical. 221 00:21:11,640 --> 00:21:15,319 They are not You have to deal with the emotion, you have to 222 00:21:15,400 --> 00:21:21,599 deal with and then they never go back. And here, what's unique about 223 00:21:21,640 --> 00:21:27,680 this is that we have this extended time and we have the testimony from different 224 00:21:27,680 --> 00:21:34,759 people at different times of his life over really over forty years, and that 225 00:21:36,000 --> 00:21:41,640 is a unique piece of testimony about the whole phenomenon. Do you think that 226 00:21:41,680 --> 00:21:45,839 he would have had a total different life if this didn't happen. I mean, 227 00:21:45,240 --> 00:21:51,480 like you mentioned, he's he's in a very remote area in this cabin, 228 00:21:51,680 --> 00:21:55,559 and it looks like, you know, he he hunts and everything, 229 00:21:55,720 --> 00:21:59,799 you know, for food and has his animals and gardens and things like that. 230 00:22:00,440 --> 00:22:03,480 Do you think I noticed at the end he seemed to really enjoy being 231 00:22:03,519 --> 00:22:08,200 around um, you know, family and in the village at the very end 232 00:22:08,200 --> 00:22:14,920 of the movie. As oh, there is no question he felt as strange 233 00:22:15,039 --> 00:22:19,559 from his family. And you know, so many witnesses go through that, 234 00:22:19,720 --> 00:22:29,400 so many witnesses of close encounters. I remember, I remember the working with 235 00:22:29,480 --> 00:22:36,000 doctor Heinek and interviewing some of the how we patrol people in the Midwest who 236 00:22:36,079 --> 00:22:45,160 had encounters and abductions and being unable to stay in the police force and having 237 00:22:45,160 --> 00:22:52,359 to resign. Uh you know, Learndizamor and so korro at that experience being 238 00:22:52,039 --> 00:22:56,440 being ostracized because he was different. You know, he was a guy who 239 00:22:56,440 --> 00:23:03,200 had seen the flying saucer and professionally that ruined his experience. And many of 240 00:23:03,240 --> 00:23:08,279 these people went through divorces. Their neighbors would throw stones at their house. 241 00:23:10,000 --> 00:23:12,759 I mean, they would be rejected, as you know, the guy who 242 00:23:12,839 --> 00:23:18,720 has done something a little strange and brought this repute to the family or to 243 00:23:18,839 --> 00:23:23,960 the town. So many I've seen that with so many witnesses, you know, 244 00:23:25,039 --> 00:23:29,279 both in Europe, in France, but also in um you know, 245 00:23:29,359 --> 00:23:33,920 suddenly in the US. And that's an aspect of it that nobody has looked 246 00:23:33,960 --> 00:23:38,960 at, right, And the first thing that I have to do, as 247 00:23:40,160 --> 00:23:44,480 you know, when I go to a site, and deal with the human 248 00:23:44,559 --> 00:23:48,359 situation. Before you pull out the questionnaire and you know, the compass and 249 00:23:49,279 --> 00:23:55,759 the cameras and so on, you have to deal with the people as human 250 00:23:55,799 --> 00:24:00,720 beings. And very often they are hurt. They are hurt in their family, 251 00:24:00,759 --> 00:24:07,079 they're hurting their friendships and in their professions. Right. Yes, I 252 00:24:07,119 --> 00:24:14,480 remember watching some video, some documentary that was had taken place in either the 253 00:24:14,640 --> 00:24:18,960 early sixties or late nineteen fifties, and there were people talking about their experiences 254 00:24:18,960 --> 00:24:25,039 back then. And I remember there was a man that said, if one 255 00:24:25,160 --> 00:24:29,400 landed right beside me, I wouldn't tell a soul after what I've gone through 256 00:24:30,279 --> 00:24:33,200 so right, well, especially in the military, you know, there was 257 00:24:33,799 --> 00:24:42,680 there wasn't an experience in uh in Minnesota, in my Not, the famous 258 00:24:42,759 --> 00:24:48,880 my Not case B fifty two that had and I was like both on radar 259 00:24:49,039 --> 00:24:53,599 and visually. And one member of the crew went to the back of the 260 00:24:53,640 --> 00:24:59,519 aircraft in order not to see it. And his betty said, why don't 261 00:24:59,559 --> 00:25:02,480 you want to look at it? And he said, well, you know, 262 00:25:02,559 --> 00:25:07,519 I'm interviewing with an airline next week. I don't want to have to 263 00:25:07,559 --> 00:25:11,720 say that I've seen a flying saucer. Wow, isn't he did not want 264 00:25:11,759 --> 00:25:17,279 to see it? Yeah, yea. So the penalties in some of those 265 00:25:18,000 --> 00:25:22,559 in the military and in the police force, the penalty for seeing something that's 266 00:25:22,640 --> 00:25:27,680 unexplained and can be drastic. And what do you think about now? Do 267 00:25:27,720 --> 00:25:33,680 you think things have changed ever since I mentioned earlier, ever since the article 268 00:25:33,720 --> 00:25:37,400 came out in the New York Times, people seem to be more acceptable. 269 00:25:37,920 --> 00:25:40,440 And I just wanted to get your take on that. I know you have 270 00:25:40,519 --> 00:25:45,200 to go in a couple of minutes here, but well, I'm I'm okay. 271 00:25:45,960 --> 00:25:51,680 That's wait for Aland and I'd like to say hi to him. Would 272 00:25:51,720 --> 00:25:57,000 become you know, close friends. I wish I could say yes, things 273 00:25:57,000 --> 00:26:02,759 have changed. I'm not so sure I can tell you things have not changed 274 00:26:02,920 --> 00:26:07,000 very much. In the scientific community. People are afraid for their veputation, 275 00:26:07,240 --> 00:26:15,240 they're afraid for their grants, for their budget, just almost as much today 276 00:26:15,319 --> 00:26:22,000 as they did. There isn't the same stigma, but people still look at 277 00:26:22,000 --> 00:26:27,400 you funny. Not so much in Silicon Valley because Silicon Valley is so strange 278 00:26:27,440 --> 00:26:33,720 anyway, in really other ways, but in the scientific community in general. 279 00:26:34,319 --> 00:26:41,119 And I think that's still true in the military, and I think maybe then 280 00:26:41,119 --> 00:26:48,720 imits experience, we've changed links because so many of these pilots were highly respected 281 00:26:48,799 --> 00:26:53,759 and everybody knows they're not lying, that's right. Yes, I think that's 282 00:26:53,799 --> 00:27:00,640 made such headway. And you know, David Fraeber, some people have said 283 00:27:00,680 --> 00:27:04,759 a couple of things lately since he was on Joe Rogan recently, but I 284 00:27:04,799 --> 00:27:11,559 think I think there's absolutely no doubt about the quality of the witness that he 285 00:27:11,720 --> 00:27:15,640 is and I think it has definitely made made a difference. And I would 286 00:27:15,720 --> 00:27:21,599 say that's myself. I'd say that's one of the top cases just because of 287 00:27:22,160 --> 00:27:25,839 um, you know what, what has happened with that, you know, 288 00:27:25,920 --> 00:27:30,400 with it just seems to have moved things forward a bit. And I don't 289 00:27:30,400 --> 00:27:34,119 know if that's you've probably seen things move forward many times and your long career 290 00:27:34,160 --> 00:27:40,960 looking into this, and do you have hopes? I mean, I don't 291 00:27:40,960 --> 00:27:44,559 think there should be a disclosure, so to say, but it just seems 292 00:27:44,680 --> 00:27:49,440 more acceptable, you know what, what in a way of ironic, because 293 00:27:51,160 --> 00:28:02,880 the US community has said this is great progress because Navy has requested testial testimony 294 00:28:02,960 --> 00:28:11,480 and they are re reinstating the reporting. Well, yeah, you know, 295 00:28:11,519 --> 00:28:15,839 I remember the days working with doctor Hideck on the Project Bluebook files. They 296 00:28:15,880 --> 00:28:22,960 were hundreds of reports from the Navy. The Navy had a reporting sequence, 297 00:28:23,039 --> 00:28:30,960 you know, reporting regulation that was parallel to uh JAN appened to the other 298 00:28:30,000 --> 00:28:34,039 regulations of the of the Air Force, and they were reporting into Project blue 299 00:28:34,079 --> 00:28:41,480 Book. The Air Force was the point of contact for all the arm forces. 300 00:28:41,960 --> 00:28:47,519 And so I remember going through a number of cases from the Navy when 301 00:28:47,519 --> 00:28:56,119 I built a database for Project blue Book, and the then they closed down 302 00:28:56,160 --> 00:29:00,759 Project blue Book and the Navy went its own way that gathered in those cases 303 00:29:00,759 --> 00:29:07,680 anymore, and now they are reinstating the same particle. That doesn't mean necessarily 304 00:29:07,720 --> 00:29:15,759 a recognition of that these things are unexplained. It means a recognition that we 305 00:29:15,839 --> 00:29:18,799 want to track or they want to track those things. That also means that 306 00:29:18,920 --> 00:29:23,039 I'm not going to be made public. So I think it's a reverse of 307 00:29:23,079 --> 00:29:30,359 what the US community is expecting. Absolutely, guess what we have Alan on 308 00:29:30,400 --> 00:29:34,039 the line, Alan Stilverman, welcome to the show. Hey Martin, thanks 309 00:29:34,079 --> 00:29:42,039 for having me. Hey Chad, good afternoon. Hey Como Stas. That's 310 00:29:42,079 --> 00:29:48,400 the cbm akay in San Francisco. Yeah, let's let's just do the rest 311 00:29:48,400 --> 00:29:56,599 of the show in Spanish. That really fun that Wabish French. Yeah, 312 00:29:56,759 --> 00:30:02,160 I will let you talk to Alan. I know you're eager to talk to 313 00:30:02,240 --> 00:30:04,799 him and get his side of the story. Well, well, Shark, 314 00:30:04,880 --> 00:30:07,519 I'll tell you it's been a real pleasure. Thank you so much. I 315 00:30:07,559 --> 00:30:11,319 really appreciate it because I've been told today that you don't go on too many 316 00:30:11,319 --> 00:30:15,559 shows, and it's just I feel really honored and thank you. So this 317 00:30:15,599 --> 00:30:19,960 movie is exceptional. So yes, all right, thank you very much. 318 00:30:21,200 --> 00:30:26,279 All Right, you take care, Jacky bye, take care bye. All 319 00:30:26,359 --> 00:30:30,279 right. Alan, So let me let's see. So you are a filmmaker, 320 00:30:30,519 --> 00:30:34,759 and I think you know, watching this film, I was saying, 321 00:30:34,759 --> 00:30:38,119 I think it was it was a very good film, and I was really 322 00:30:38,839 --> 00:30:45,519 glad that when shark. You contacted him and he said, sure. You 323 00:30:45,559 --> 00:30:48,079 know he got involved right away, which is that must have been really exciting 324 00:30:48,079 --> 00:30:53,799 for you. It was. Indeed, I was shooting at that time. 325 00:30:53,960 --> 00:30:59,480 I think it was in the middle of the shooting of this movie. And 326 00:30:59,519 --> 00:31:04,000 then I got this idea to write him and send him like a letter telling 327 00:31:04,119 --> 00:31:10,279 him about what we were doing with this film, what was the like the 328 00:31:10,400 --> 00:31:17,279 message behind this story of One Paris. And I also told him that One 329 00:31:17,519 --> 00:31:26,200 was not doing good. He was feeling really lonely after the encounter that he 330 00:31:26,279 --> 00:31:33,279 had when he was twelve. He got some like gifts or curse because he 331 00:31:33,480 --> 00:31:40,720 felt that the premonition dreams that he had it was more like a curse instead 332 00:31:40,759 --> 00:31:45,960 of a gift, and he was really suffering because of these consequences that he 333 00:31:45,039 --> 00:31:51,480 had. He also received mockery from his family, from his relatives, his 334 00:31:51,640 --> 00:31:59,799 friends. And I didn't know that he would remember this case because Jack only 335 00:31:59,839 --> 00:32:06,799 mentioned in two of his books, in Forbidden Science and in Confrontations. But 336 00:32:07,480 --> 00:32:12,880 you know Jack, he read thousands and thousands of cases around the globe. 337 00:32:13,319 --> 00:32:19,160 But I just gave that shot and I asked him to go to San Francisco 338 00:32:19,319 --> 00:32:23,720 and do this interview. Jackie is a very low profiled person, so I 339 00:32:23,759 --> 00:32:30,480 didn't want to interrupt his project. I just want to have his opinion about 340 00:32:30,519 --> 00:32:36,160 the case and that's it. And he gave me the idea to go to 341 00:32:36,319 --> 00:32:39,559 Argentina to stay with one to try to help him, and for me, 342 00:32:39,680 --> 00:32:45,200 it was one of the most important gift in my life. And the movie 343 00:32:45,359 --> 00:32:53,000 changed completely when he appeared, so it was a truly pleasure to have to 344 00:32:53,119 --> 00:32:58,200 have him on board. Yeah, I totally get that. It must have 345 00:32:58,240 --> 00:33:00,759 been quite amazing, right, everyone that set for the first part of the 346 00:33:00,799 --> 00:33:07,359 show. Feel free to help us out and get to listen to the full 347 00:33:07,359 --> 00:33:14,039 shows for only two dollars or more per month all that informations on podcast ufo 348 00:33:14,160 --> 00:33:17,759 dot com. You can also subscribe for the yearly podcast, which is as 349 00:33:17,839 --> 00:33:22,440 low as fifteen dollars per year, and get to listen to the whole shows 350 00:33:22,920 --> 00:33:27,480 on your media player if you know. You can also log into the website 351 00:33:27,519 --> 00:33:30,640 and listen. If you can't do that and you want to listen to the 352 00:33:30,680 --> 00:33:35,279 full shows, you can always listen live and that's every Tuesday nights at six 353 00:33:35,400 --> 00:33:39,200 to eight pm Eastern Standard Time on our website or on YouTube. You can 354 00:33:39,279 --> 00:33:45,519 also listen over at KGr A Radio and over on Thursday nights at the Dark 355 00:33:45,599 --> 00:33:52,119 Better Digital Network. And that's it. Next week we have doctor Chef sa 356 00:33:52,640 --> 00:33:55,680 Shastack from the SETI Institute. He'll be on in the second hour. I'm 357 00:33:55,720 --> 00:34:00,279 not sure who's going to be on the first hour at this point. If 358 00:34:00,279 --> 00:34:01,480 you'd like to find out who's going to be on our shows, you can 359 00:34:01,519 --> 00:34:06,640 go over to podcast ufo dot com and sign up. On the right hand 360 00:34:06,680 --> 00:34:09,920 side there is a mailing list that you can sign up to get the newsletters. 361 00:34:10,400 --> 00:34:15,039 And also while you're there, check out our blog that is by Charles 362 00:34:15,079 --> 00:34:20,719 Lear and it's called chillan UFOs. Thanks so much, and remember to keep 363 00:34:20,719 --> 00:34:34,440 your eyes to the sky.