WEBVTT 1 00:00:01.120 --> 00:00:04.639 Welcome back in Your Leadership. I'm Chris Lorenzo and welcome to this week's Thoughtful 2 00:00:04.679 --> 00:00:07.919 Thursday. Don't forget to follow us on YouTube at Hacking Your Leadership and leave 3 00:00:07.960 --> 00:00:10.720 us a review on iTunes. On this Thoughtful Thursday, we're going to be 4 00:00:10.720 --> 00:00:15.679 going over some listener feedback from our Monday episode. We're in the process of 5 00:00:15.720 --> 00:00:21.480 going over a four episode series over four mondays on the different reasons why a 6 00:00:21.519 --> 00:00:26.399 team might not be high performing, the kind of the dysfunctions that exist that 7 00:00:26.399 --> 00:00:30.000 it may prevent that, and if we define high performing, is just kind 8 00:00:30.000 --> 00:00:36.640 of this sustained ability to deliver results over a long period of time with approximately 9 00:00:36.679 --> 00:00:40.240 the same team, with mostly the same people, that would what we consider 10 00:00:40.320 --> 00:00:44.200 a high performing team. On Monday's episode, we talked about how one of 11 00:00:44.200 --> 00:00:49.039 the reasons that a team might not be high performing is that there is a 12 00:00:49.039 --> 00:00:53.840 a fear or avoidance of conflict amongst the team members and that could you know, 13 00:00:53.880 --> 00:00:58.359 be stemming from you know, people who uh, they're they're afraid of 14 00:00:58.439 --> 00:01:02.920 challenging appear in the room, um for you know, their own lack of 15 00:01:03.000 --> 00:01:06.280 political standing in the room, or um they just they don't want to be 16 00:01:06.319 --> 00:01:10.760 seen as the as the one who's always being the naysayer or or playing devil's 17 00:01:10.799 --> 00:01:15.040 advocate. UM. It's kind of this this lack of psychological safety that says, 18 00:01:15.159 --> 00:01:19.040 I'm just going to keep my mouth shut, And oftentimes that doesn't mean 19 00:01:19.239 --> 00:01:23.200 that those people keep their mouth shut all the time. It means they keep 20 00:01:23.239 --> 00:01:27.319 their mouth shut when it's appropriate, and they open their mouths when they feel 21 00:01:27.359 --> 00:01:30.799 like they're in they're in safe company. Right when we want one on one 22 00:01:30.840 --> 00:01:34.760 with another person, not the person who needs to hear it, of course, 23 00:01:34.879 --> 00:01:37.840 but one on one with another person, and that kind of sows the 24 00:01:37.879 --> 00:01:42.599 seeds of distrust and discontent within the team. UM. On Monday's episode, 25 00:01:42.640 --> 00:01:47.079 one of the really cool things we talked about was that an example or an 26 00:01:47.079 --> 00:01:49.280 exercise that we can do in order to kind of help our teams get through 27 00:01:49.319 --> 00:01:53.079 this UM and this was the the bad ideas example. So if you haven't 28 00:01:53.079 --> 00:01:56.799 you haven't heard this, go back and listen to Monday's episode. UM. 29 00:01:56.799 --> 00:02:00.159 But our our listeners reached out to us after the fact and said, hey, 30 00:02:00.200 --> 00:02:01.959 that was a good example, but we want more. We want to 31 00:02:02.000 --> 00:02:07.599 know more about what we can do to to kind of lower the fear of 32 00:02:07.719 --> 00:02:13.319 conflict or the avoidance of conflict on our teams because we think this does happen 33 00:02:13.360 --> 00:02:16.439 sometimes that we're in a room full of people and everybody says yea, let's 34 00:02:16.439 --> 00:02:20.800 go do this, and then it's clear that they didn't really mean the yea 35 00:02:21.080 --> 00:02:23.439 that they said. And I'm curious what you think about this, len Zoe. 36 00:02:23.520 --> 00:02:25.439 Yeah, I think it's good dialogue to have, and like, I 37 00:02:25.719 --> 00:02:29.960 think, in full transparency, I don't know that you ever get to a 38 00:02:30.000 --> 00:02:31.719 place where there's no conflict. And I think that's the point of why we're 39 00:02:31.719 --> 00:02:36.840 talking about it, is like you actually need conflict, but there is a 40 00:02:36.879 --> 00:02:39.360 way to do it that allows you to be productive. There's a way to 41 00:02:39.400 --> 00:02:44.719 do it that allows you to challenge one another, to discuss ideas, to 42 00:02:44.759 --> 00:02:47.080 push back, and to walk out of the room sometimes saying you know what, 43 00:02:47.120 --> 00:02:51.960 like I don't one hundred percent agree, but this is where we've landed 44 00:02:52.360 --> 00:02:54.919 and this is the decision that we're making. So like I'm going to support 45 00:02:55.400 --> 00:02:59.400 the vision or the strategy of what we're talking about. So I think that 46 00:03:00.120 --> 00:03:02.680 sometimes the idea of conflict, it gets caught up in the you know, 47 00:03:02.840 --> 00:03:07.199 conflict is bad, No conflict is good, and I don't necessarily see it 48 00:03:07.240 --> 00:03:10.759 that way, so I'm glad that we're talking about it. I think conflict 49 00:03:10.840 --> 00:03:15.120 can be very good and should be a part of what you do. And 50 00:03:15.159 --> 00:03:17.680 maybe you call it a different word. Maybe it's healthy debate, right, 51 00:03:17.840 --> 00:03:22.919 maybe it's feedback. I don't like whatever you want to put on top of 52 00:03:22.960 --> 00:03:24.960 that word. I see some of that, not all of it, but 53 00:03:25.039 --> 00:03:31.080 some of that as conflict and healthy conflict where you have an observation of a 54 00:03:31.120 --> 00:03:35.840 behavior that you want to correct or a difference in of opinions. But I 55 00:03:35.879 --> 00:03:39.879 definitely think it's something that's needed. And like I said, when done really 56 00:03:39.879 --> 00:03:46.360 well, people feel good about like they had a chance to express their thoughts 57 00:03:46.479 --> 00:03:51.759 or their their ideas and that they were heard and that it was valued, 58 00:03:52.199 --> 00:03:54.879 and then that whatever the outcome is going to be is going to include that 59 00:03:55.080 --> 00:04:00.280 part of the dialogue or the conversation, and then they're okay with it because 60 00:04:00.280 --> 00:04:03.919 they know sometimes what they're what they're you know, maybe sharing is going to 61 00:04:03.960 --> 00:04:06.800 be the thing that turns out to be, and then maybe sometimes it's going 62 00:04:06.840 --> 00:04:10.360 to be halfway there and sometimes it's going to be the opposite. But like 63 00:04:10.840 --> 00:04:12.960 we know, this is a part of how we want to be able to 64 00:04:12.960 --> 00:04:16.680 make decisions. And if we walk out of a room feeling like maybe we 65 00:04:16.720 --> 00:04:19.759 still have more questions, that we actually ask those questions, and to your 66 00:04:19.759 --> 00:04:24.399 point earlier, we do it in a way that is that is positive and 67 00:04:24.399 --> 00:04:27.680 that is productive. Right. I would say that if you're on a team 68 00:04:27.839 --> 00:04:31.959 and you aren't seeing any conflict, that's a usually a bad thing because it 69 00:04:32.000 --> 00:04:36.160 doesn't mean there's nothing to have conflict over. It means there's a fear or 70 00:04:36.199 --> 00:04:40.360 an avoidance of conflict to be in with, and that isn't a healthy thing. 71 00:04:40.519 --> 00:04:43.920 I'm sure there are some exceptions out there, but very few, especially 72 00:04:43.959 --> 00:04:48.160 on a larger team or on a team where you have people whom they're not 73 00:04:48.480 --> 00:04:51.560 they don't have a relationship outside of work. If it's not like a family 74 00:04:53.040 --> 00:04:55.839 or or a group of best friends that got together to start a business that 75 00:04:55.879 --> 00:04:58.959 kind of thing. If it's just a team that you put together and the 76 00:04:59.120 --> 00:05:02.079 only time they see each other is at work, if there is zero conflict 77 00:05:02.120 --> 00:05:05.199 at all, I would it'd be hard for me to come up with a 78 00:05:05.279 --> 00:05:09.360 scenario where that was always a good thing. I'd be very, very scared 79 00:05:09.399 --> 00:05:13.800 of a situation like that of why that was that was lacking. But when 80 00:05:13.879 --> 00:05:17.319 we talk about, you know, how to work through conflict, the biggest 81 00:05:17.399 --> 00:05:23.839 kind of I think roadblock or hurdle to doing this is this either one one 82 00:05:23.959 --> 00:05:30.920 person's inability to detach their ideas or their suggestions from their own identity, or 83 00:05:31.199 --> 00:05:38.319 another person's belief that they can't shoot holes in an idea because it will be 84 00:05:38.360 --> 00:05:43.720 interpreted as shooting holes in that person as opposed to the person's idea. And 85 00:05:44.199 --> 00:05:47.040 that is what leads to a lot of people kind of avoiding that conflict. 86 00:05:47.480 --> 00:05:50.439 But when they're talking about it, you know, one on one with other 87 00:05:50.439 --> 00:05:54.879 people later on, or they're kind of you know, when you when you 88 00:05:54.920 --> 00:05:59.639 can tell there's discontent, it doesn't mean that they didn't want to. It 89 00:05:59.759 --> 00:06:01.279 means that they felt like they couldn't. And so what I want to ask 90 00:06:01.279 --> 00:06:04.560 you, Lorenzo, is when have you encounter this on a team that you've 91 00:06:04.560 --> 00:06:08.160 had where it got to the point or it rose to the point where you 92 00:06:08.199 --> 00:06:11.600 actually to sit people down and talk to them about, Okay, this this 93 00:06:11.800 --> 00:06:15.319 has to change because this is going nowhere fast and it's going to get worse 94 00:06:15.360 --> 00:06:16.720 unless we kind of just really hash it out. I want to ask you 95 00:06:16.759 --> 00:06:18.879 that, but first I want to get it upward from one of our sponsors, 96 00:06:19.920 --> 00:06:23.800 all Lorenzo. When is it risen to the occasion where you have to 97 00:06:23.879 --> 00:06:29.680 actually sit down with some people and kind of pull rank a little bit and 98 00:06:29.720 --> 00:06:31.079 say, we have to we have to talk about this out in the open, 99 00:06:31.319 --> 00:06:35.639 because this is not going anywhere positive. It's happened, and I anticipate 100 00:06:35.680 --> 00:06:41.160 that it will continue to happen because I think when you are working with leaders 101 00:06:41.360 --> 00:06:45.639 and when you have kind of again this delta amongst leaders that are maybe new 102 00:06:45.680 --> 00:06:48.160 to roll, new to position, new to an element of authority, those 103 00:06:48.279 --> 00:06:53.360 that are not, those that have different perspectives and opinions, like, you're 104 00:06:53.360 --> 00:06:59.560 going to have those moments where sometimes two leaders maybe just cannot figure that out. 105 00:06:59.639 --> 00:07:02.199 And I could think of a very specific example where I had that, 106 00:07:02.199 --> 00:07:05.319 where I had two leaders that were very passionate about the work that they do, 107 00:07:05.639 --> 00:07:09.839 They were very passionate about the team that they led, they were passionate 108 00:07:09.879 --> 00:07:14.079 about the outcomes and the results they that they wanted. And because they were 109 00:07:14.079 --> 00:07:17.480 both very passionate, very opinionated, it was just continuing to be one of 110 00:07:17.519 --> 00:07:20.160 these things that would bubble up like they would. They would, they would 111 00:07:20.160 --> 00:07:23.920 bump heads, they would bump heads, um. And then it was starting 112 00:07:23.959 --> 00:07:27.920 to kind of feel outside of just their inability to kind of get aligned, 113 00:07:27.959 --> 00:07:30.959 it was starting to feel through the other leaders, because each of them would 114 00:07:30.040 --> 00:07:32.439 kind of go back and be like, I like, you know, I 115 00:07:32.800 --> 00:07:35.560 can't believe they said this or they want to do it this way. Um. 116 00:07:35.639 --> 00:07:39.600 And so I pulled the two of them together and I sat down and 117 00:07:39.600 --> 00:07:41.600 I said, like, let me, let's let's work through this. But 118 00:07:41.639 --> 00:07:46.480 I need you to understand that that there are things here that I think that 119 00:07:46.600 --> 00:07:50.959 maybe neither one of you can see, and that you're actually both more alike 120 00:07:51.040 --> 00:07:55.079 than you are different. And so here's actually what I want us to do 121 00:07:55.199 --> 00:07:58.720 right now. I'd like each of you to just write down, you know, 122 00:07:59.199 --> 00:08:01.399 not what maybe is the thing that's annoying you, or maybe that is 123 00:08:01.439 --> 00:08:05.800 the thing that is causing you to, you know, maybe have some conflict 124 00:08:05.800 --> 00:08:09.920 with this person, but I want you to write down what you see in 125 00:08:09.000 --> 00:08:13.160 them that you think that you really appreciate, you know, not maybe it's 126 00:08:13.160 --> 00:08:16.160 maybe it's not the ideas or whatever, but like what you see in them 127 00:08:16.160 --> 00:08:18.959 as a leader that you really appreciate. I want you to write that down. 128 00:08:18.600 --> 00:08:20.920 Um, you know, right now we're gonna start. We're gonna start 129 00:08:20.920 --> 00:08:24.399 there, and they both did, and then I said, cool, now 130 00:08:24.439 --> 00:08:26.920 I want you to read it out loud, and they did. And the 131 00:08:26.959 --> 00:08:30.279 funniest part of the whole situation was that you would have thought that they had 132 00:08:30.360 --> 00:08:33.399 cheated with like like like wrote each other's like words down like that they saw 133 00:08:33.440 --> 00:08:39.200 that the other person was writing down because they were so similar and exactly what 134 00:08:39.240 --> 00:08:43.440 they saw in each other about that they would defend the team, that they 135 00:08:43.799 --> 00:08:48.360 really really cared about people's development, that they would stand up for ideas like 136 00:08:48.440 --> 00:08:52.279 these things. And what was happening is that they were doing it to each 137 00:08:52.320 --> 00:08:56.759 other, not realizing that they both had the same intent and the same reason 138 00:08:56.799 --> 00:08:58.440 as to why they were doing it. And at that point they kind of 139 00:08:58.440 --> 00:09:01.840 looked at each other and I said, yeah, exactly, Like the reason 140 00:09:01.879 --> 00:09:05.240 you two are having conflict is because you're actually on exactly the same page. 141 00:09:05.320 --> 00:09:09.320 You see the work very similarly. Your approach is a little bit different, 142 00:09:11.200 --> 00:09:15.080 but you're both passionately fighting, you know, for the same things that you 143 00:09:15.120 --> 00:09:18.120 want to see within our team. So I'm going to give you thirty minutes 144 00:09:18.159 --> 00:09:20.840 to talk through this, and I need you both on the same page, 145 00:09:22.200 --> 00:09:24.559 and I need you to both understand like I want. I want that level 146 00:09:24.600 --> 00:09:28.399 of passion. I want that level of commitment from both of you towards making 147 00:09:28.399 --> 00:09:33.240 this team better. And then I walked out of the room and they had 148 00:09:33.240 --> 00:09:35.480 their time and it wasn't thirty minutes. I think they were there for like 149 00:09:35.519 --> 00:09:39.080 another hour and a half. But coming out of that, I think that's 150 00:09:39.080 --> 00:09:41.399 what they needed to hear, was that they each needed to hear from each 151 00:09:41.399 --> 00:09:46.519 other that the other person actually respected them. They saw who they were, 152 00:09:46.799 --> 00:09:50.240 they saw the work that they were doing, and they validated that for one 153 00:09:50.240 --> 00:09:52.799 another, and they realized again that they were more like than they were different. 154 00:09:54.159 --> 00:09:56.360 And the cool part of that is that they are very close now, 155 00:09:56.679 --> 00:10:01.399 and you know they now they defend each other when it comes to certain things 156 00:10:01.399 --> 00:10:03.240 that are going on, which I think is the right thing to do, 157 00:10:03.320 --> 00:10:05.960 but but that those are those moments sometimes that you definitely have to step in. 158 00:10:07.039 --> 00:10:09.639 You know, I've always heard that that when you are arguing with somebody 159 00:10:09.639 --> 00:10:16.759 about something, it's important to look at them as a teammate and that both 160 00:10:16.759 --> 00:10:20.559 of you are on the same team, and the opponent is whatever. The 161 00:10:20.600 --> 00:10:26.320 wrong idea is not your opponent is the person that you're talking with. And 162 00:10:26.840 --> 00:10:28.759 if you can do that, if you can take two people who are already 163 00:10:28.759 --> 00:10:33.000 on the same team and instead of getting them to look at each other like 164 00:10:33.120 --> 00:10:37.240 they're they're on opposing teams, each of whom is, you know, pushing 165 00:10:37.279 --> 00:10:41.720 forward their own set of ideas or strategies or agendas, and instead the idea 166 00:10:41.799 --> 00:10:46.919 and the and the goal is to there is there, whatever the results are. 167 00:10:46.960 --> 00:10:48.320 You want these results, You want to be on a high performing team. 168 00:10:48.799 --> 00:10:54.559 And if you and that other person can look at yourselves as teammates and 169 00:10:54.000 --> 00:11:00.320 the opponent is whatever wrong, the wrong way forward is. It's amazing how 170 00:11:00.399 --> 00:11:05.679 much differently people treat each other when they start the conversation from that standpoint of 171 00:11:05.879 --> 00:11:11.279 viewing each other as teammates looking towards a common goal and just having different ideas 172 00:11:11.320 --> 00:11:15.799 of how to get there. When you start from a standpoint of looking at 173 00:11:15.840 --> 00:11:20.639 a teammate as an opponent who has a different goal than you have, it's 174 00:11:20.759 --> 00:11:22.840 really easy to get caught up in this and have it become, you know, 175 00:11:24.120 --> 00:11:28.120 an unhealthy level of conflict, which turns into an avoidance or a fear 176 00:11:28.159 --> 00:11:31.279 of conflict because you just don't want to deal with it. And so, 177 00:11:31.559 --> 00:11:33.879 yeah, these exercises are really important. There's no such thing as a team 178 00:11:35.080 --> 00:11:39.279 that doesn't go through this. So if you as a leader, one of 179 00:11:39.279 --> 00:11:43.879 your responsibilities is to facilitate these kind of moments where they can happen in a 180 00:11:43.879 --> 00:11:46.879 healthy and a productive way, because when the time comes where it needs to 181 00:11:46.919 --> 00:11:50.559 happen anyway where there's there's no avoidance of it, it needs to be able 182 00:11:50.600 --> 00:11:54.679 to be done in a way that that kind of raises the cohesion of the 183 00:11:54.679 --> 00:11:58.720 team as opposed to degrades it absolutely, and with that it brings us to 184 00:11:58.759 --> 00:12:01.080 the end of this episode. This is hacking leadership. I'm Lorenzo and I'm 185 00:12:01.159 --> 00:12:03.399 Chris, and have a great day.