WEBVTT

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This opens up a lot of use
cases, and so I'm always where do

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I start. So I think one
obvious one is bitcoin defive. So the

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interesting thing is you'll pay gas fees
in bitcoin, and so suddenly for the

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stakers we'll have actually native bitcoin yields. All those gas fees will approve back

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to other people. Then you of
course have stable coins. I think that

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there has been one thing to launch
a stable coin on bitcoin for ten years.

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link in the description. Welcome to
the Thinking Crypto podcast. I'm your host,

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Tony Edward, and with me today's
Wilhelm Schrow, who is the founder

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and CEO of bot Nick's Labs.
Willem. Great to have you on.

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Great to meet you, Tony,
great to be here, Nice to meet

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you all. Yeah. Absolutely,
Well, you guys are building some very

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cool bitcoin scaling solutions, Layer twos
and much more so. I have a

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lot of questions for you as a
bitcoin holder. I'm excited about the new

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use cases and applications that can be
built around bitcoin. But before we get

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there, you know, tell us
about yourself, where are you from and

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what's your professional background. Absolutely absolutely, I got a lot of use cases

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for you. Later in the podcast. So I'm WILLELM. I grew up

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in Belgium, have a bit of
a mathematics background, became thirteen national mathematics

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competition there, ended up doing electrical
engineering, researched in cryptography, so researched

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in authenticated encryption. Actually part of
the design how we're building a bit conlear

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to, which is called the Spada
chain, comes from my cryptography background.

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Then lived the year and a half
in Sauda Arabia, so hyperinflation happening in

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Lebanon, so people get their bank
accountsies fully fell down a rabbit hole.

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Then went to Boston to Harvard and
then moved to New York and around like

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two years ago, I think we
came up with the idea for botanics.

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Basically realizing that you have Bitcoin,
a trillion dollar market and almost new applications

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on top of it, and then
on etherium, so many different applications and

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most of them are built on the
EVM, and so realized that EVM is

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a software layer. You can bring
that to bitcoin as a second layer EVM

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and that's when we started building.
Went deep into the cryptography for the first

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six months basically pure design, and
then started building, went on Testina in

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November and now getting close to getting
close to Maynad. That's awesome. I'm

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curious what was your first encounter with
bitcoin? Did a friend tell you about

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it? Did you read about it
on a forum? And was it around

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the time you were studying cryptography?
No, exactly exactly. So actually,

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one of my good friends that is
still working in the space, I was

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like twenty twelve or something to me
about it. Unfortunately I didn't buy them

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because I had to send cash in
an envelope, and besides that, I

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didn't have that much money as a
poor college student. And then of course

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I start in my cryptography classes,
so I saw a bitcoin in my cryptography

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classes. Oh wow. So I'm
curious in your classes around cryptography, how

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was bigcoin presented and it is?
Is it very different from other forms of

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cryptography. Yeah, that's a very
good question. I think in general ninety

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five percent of the classes of cryptography
was not about cryptocurrency at all. Maybe

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today it's a little bit a little
bit more, but it's about all areas

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of cryptography, symmetric, asymmetric acryption, et cetera. And then, yeah,

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of course this was very novel then, so this was twenty thirteen.

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In my cryptography classes. Professor was
a extremely skeptical person and so we called

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it, yeah, some weird Internet
experiment, but we looked at it from

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a cryptographic perspective and it was like
very legit, so very interesting to actually

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see a lot of like primitives like
shah and and other algorithms basically used in

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real life. So that was actually
cool to see. Oh wow, very

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cool. And to your point,
there's probably more classes and more dialogue around

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bitcoin and crypto now that it's you
know, has risen as a technology in

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an asset class. So I don't
know, have you ever messaged your professor

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like, hey, I'm working on
big point now. Yeah, actually I

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haven't. I should probably do it
at some point. The funny thing is,

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I'm not sure you know, as
the advanced encryption standard, probably the

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most used encryption standard in the world, I was actually invented by my professor.

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So that's that's quite cool. Not
a lot of people know it,

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but Belgium is somehow extremely big in
the world of cryptography. Not that much

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in the world of cryptocurrencies, but
very big in the world of cryptography.

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That's fascinating. So let's talk about
both in x Labs. Why did you

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decide to start this company and what's
your core mission? Yeah, that's a

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very good question. So two years
ago I was in this world, and

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then I entered the world through the
bitcoin side, and of course I saw

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hyperinflation, I saw people get their
bank accountsy so I quickly saw the micro

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picture, and I think bitcoin is
a is a technology of sound money,

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that is that can be absolutely massive
for billions of people around the world.

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And then you saw also another few
things happening, like bitcoin has very slow

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blocks, ten minute blocks, and
it's very hard to build on, and

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so most of the applications were built
on other other change. And so I

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really like bitcoin in the sense that
it's a very clean code, it's a

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very easy to understand code, it's
very clean, it's very pure, it's

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absolutely decentralized. And so I like
bitcoin because it's the most pure, decentralized,

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secure, best money ever made.
And so I would like to see

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more in the world and more applications
actually being built on bitcoin. And then

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once you think you start seeing you
saw DeFi somewhere, of course, and

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then you see these primitives of a
financial system and so when you think about

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decentralized ex changes, in my mind, they're a tenx better version of stock

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exchanges. You can permissionly trade anywhere
in the world twenty four to seven.

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Today, someone I don't know in
Egypt, for example, cannot buy all

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the stocks on New York Stock Exchange. Why is that? And so you

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can see that decentralized exchanges is a
tenx better version. Outside of that,

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I consider a lot of the tokens
actually a better version of box. And

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then of course you can take loans, and so you see these primitives of

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a better financial system. And I
wanted to build these primitives on top of

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bitcoin. And what we're doing right
now actually very funnily. In the company,

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every two weeks we look at our
mission when you think about one hundred

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years from now, and you can
actually see majority of the world with running

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on bitcoin as money. But we're
actually building as a second they EVM can

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actually be the infrastructure that runs a
financial system on bitcoin, with the decentralizedic

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changes, with the loans, with
the different tokens, and yeah, I

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can see this world playing out.
So what we're actually building can be,

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can last, can last for one
hundred years. That's amazing, and tell

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us about the spider chains, and
you mentioned they're using the EVM technology and

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maybe if you can explain to maybe
folks who are like new to crypto,

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right, how does this on bitcoin
and how is bitcoin leverage via the spider

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chain. The spider chain is actually
a novel layer to design, which is

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quite unique compared to your different wallops
that you typically see on the Ethereum.

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So the spider chain is not a
wallup. We actually believe Bitcoin is actually

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not made to build wallups. You
have the utxo model, while in Ethereum

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you have a smart contract model and
the account model, and so ethereum suits

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itself way better to build wallups and
so on Bitcoin, we actually wanted to

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build a decentralized layer to where anyone
can permissionally participate in. So you will

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be able to participate in the Spider
chain, run a full node, and

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actually be part of the whole network. And so how it works is I'm

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going to assume that the audience knows
what multi six are. Multi six are

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basically what runs in the whole of
crypto. Even wallops are a smart contract

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that as a multi sick where U
encode fraud proving. But in essence,

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we want to decentralize the multi six. And now I'm going to take a

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small pause here and give the example
of the lightning network for the people who

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are more familiar with bitcoin. The
lightning network is this decentralized network of two

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out of two multi six. If
you and I open a lightning channel,

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that's a two out of two multi
sick. And so in essence, you

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can think about the lightning network as
this overlaying network of two out of two

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multi six, and so park the
idea of the lightning network. But then

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think again about that decentralized network of
multi six. That's what the Spata chain

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is. So you will create a
series of multi six. For example,

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you can have ten thousand different people
all participating in this decentralized network, and

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so you will create one single multi
sick. You will randomly choose one hundred

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participants and they will secure multi sick
one, and then you create a new

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one. Again, you randomly choose
one hundred participants out of the ten thousand,

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and they will secure a multi six
two. And then you carry the

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new one mult six three, and
then four and then five, and then

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six, and after a while you
have these decentralized overlay network of hundreds of

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multi six of thousands of multi six, where you have ten thousand or one

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hundred thousand full node operators where anyone
can join in. And then what you

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do is all those note operators will
have to stake bitcoin, so you come

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in together in a proof of staate
consensus, and that's how you secure the

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EVM. And so this whole thing
runs on bitcoin. So also in the

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EVM, the bitcoin is the native
token on the EVM, so you'll pay

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gas fees in bitcoin, and that's
actually how the whole techtec works. Now,

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as far as use cases and utility
that this opens up, is it

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the ability to create tokens? Is
it payment? What are some of the

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use cases? Yeah, this opens
up a lot of use cases, and

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so I'm always where do I start? So I think one obvious one is

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bitcoin, DeFi. So the interesting
thing is you'll pay gas fees in bitcoin,

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and so suddenly for the stakers will
have actually native bitcoin yields, all

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those gas fees will grew back to
other people. Then you of course have

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stable coins. I think Better has
been wanting to launch a stable coin on

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Bitcoin for ten years, there's no
real stable coin on Bitcoin yet, and

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so suddenly you can have a stable
coin on Bitcoin, a Bitcoin back stable

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coin. So like a maker dow
or like a liquidity model, you can

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copy paste the same smart contract you
have on the Etherium and you can deploy

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it on Botanics and the whole thing
runs on Bitcoin, so Bitcoin yield Bitcoin

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back stable coins. You can take
loans against your bitcoin. So many people

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have been wanting to actually do something
with their money in the real life,

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but they don't want to sell their
bitcoin. So now you can take a

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loan against your bitcoin in a style
lack on av for example, So you'll

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have like Avis on Botanics and you
can loan against your bitcoin and get stable

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coins in in a return. Besides
that, of course, you can have

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different launch pats or mean corn launch
pats. Another very interesting solution is once

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you have bitcoin on EVM, you
can use an EVM EVM bridge like layered

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zero and bring the bitcoin on Botanics
to Etherium and you have a decentralized version

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of wrapped bitcoin on Ethereum. So
this can spread Bitcoin in a decentralized fashion

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throughout the whole crypto ecosystem. Besides
that, I think purb t DEXes.

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As a bitcoiner, I've been wanting
to leverage my bitcoin two x five X.

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I don't want to do it on
a central exchange. I want to

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use a purp text think like think
like your Vertex protocol that you know from

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arbitrum. Now you can natively do
that on Bitcoin, and so all your

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favorite applications that you've been using on
any EVM are now possible on botanics.

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And these are just a handful of
use cases. The actual amount of applications

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will be very, very big.
A follow up question on the stable coin

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item, are you working with any
stable coin issues? Are you pitching Tether

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to maybe come, you know,
launch on this one of your spider chains?

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Anything you can share there? Nothing
we can share there. We do

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have a few teams that have come
out of Stealth already that are building bitcoin

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back stable coins using the liquidy model, so you'll get bitcoin back stable coins

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on day one on the botanics mean
that now and I know you talked about

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the Lightning network before. Is this
compatible with the Lightning network or completely separate

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from the Lightning network? Can it
be integrated in anyway. Absolutely. Actually,

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we did a hacket on a few
months ago and the winning team build

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a lightning network integration. So I
think you go to your favorite bar or

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something that gives you a lightning invoice, and you can pay that lightning invoice

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with the bitcoin in your medo mask, on your phone or from anywhere,

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and so you can pay lightning invoices
from the botanic cdm Oh wow, very

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cool. Now there are many bitcoin
maxis out there who don't like anything around

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bitcoin are being built on bitcoin and
so forth. Do you see that changing

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though that? You know, many
bitcoin maxis are now maybe less aggressive and

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they're like, you know what,
we want all these cool things for bitcoin.

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Because the adoption of bitcoin is growing, there's people in different walks of

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life that want to use bitcoin for
different reasons aside from just digital goal or

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digital money. They want to be
able to do cool things with their bitcoin.

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What are your thoughts on the bitcoin
maxis. No, absolutely, I

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think that that's changing. You already
saw it with ordinals. The moment you

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can do something with your bitcoin,
there's so much demand. I mean,

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it's a trillion dollar market. There's
a lot of demand for it. But

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there's just no applications that you can
actually use it for, and so I

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think a lot of bitcoiners would want
to lend against their bitcoin, but they

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don't want to send it to like
a block five or anything that's very centralized.

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They want to see on chain permission
ly, everything visible, everything open,

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and so I can see a lot
of that changing. And it's actually

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also a paradox. If you are
a big bitcoiner, you would want to

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have the whole world run on bitcoin. Everything that you have today where you

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use money for US dollars for and
that those are like the good things and

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the bad things. You're buying stocks, you're buying real estate. Ideally,

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you want everything in the world to
use bitcoin for it. Yeah, I

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absolutely agree with you. Now tell
us about security, because that's going to

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be a big question for folks.
Is this secure? Can you know,

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going on the spider chain doing some
DeFi things with bitcoin? Is it secure?

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Very good question. I think security
is probably our main priority. So

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we want an extremely secure, extremely
stable protocol. We actually just hired one

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of the best security engineers in the
world, so we're going through a lot

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of different audits. Our team is
very bitcoin, bitcoin focused and very comes

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from actually the engineering team comes from
the business well from the bitcoin world,

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and so they are very security minded. We use in the beginning day one,

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we'll actually already have decentralized block builders, so no one will be in

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full control over the funds, and
so this will be audited by a bunch

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of different players stress tests that we've
been in Intestine since November. One of

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the reasons we spent longer on Destinet
is basically we want to launch an absolutely

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secure product. Now, are you
working with bitcoin miners in any way,

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given that you know they are on
the forefront of mining bitcoin, and you

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know there are some huge miners some
of the United States down in Texas and

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we were seeing possibly some bigger names
coming in from Wall Street looking to mind

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bitcoin. Are you working with any
of those folks in a limited vereshion.

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I think we've got contact with most
of the miners. The interesting thing for

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miners, of course, is botanics
applications become very successful. They will generate

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a lot of fees on the layer
one, of course, which is very

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good for the miners. Outside of
that, a lot of miners have a

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big bitcoin stack and we will be
generating bitcoin yields because all the gas fees

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on the Botanic CVM will basically create
bitcoin yields. So that's also interesting not

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only for the bitcoin miners, but
for any any big bitcoin holders. Yeah,

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that absolutely makes sense. And do
you think I mean eventually right,

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as you guys continue to grow,
you can approach certain companies who are putting

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bitcoin in a balance sheet, or
other enterprises who are interacting with bitcoin in

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different ways, maybe even bitcoin etf
issuers, right, I don't know that

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this could be another layer. Hey, we have bitcoin in the ETF,

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but if you want to, you
can earn yield off of it as well.

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No, exactly, I think on
the ETF side that will be hard

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because the legal rules there are very
difficult. I think they legally cannot do

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anything with the bitcoin in the ETFs, which is good, that's what you

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would want. But of course,
yeah, if you have bitcoin in your

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balance sheet as a company, why
not get bitcoin yield on it? And

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it's of course a trade out.
There's let me let me clarify as well,

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there's nothing more secure than bitcoin in
a cold wallet on bitcoin the base

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layer, but of course everything is
is a trade off, and so you

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can actually get bitcoin yield on the
second layer. That's of course with yeah,

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that's never going to be as secure
as a cold wallet on the base

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layer, but as a counter argument
on the flip side, you then get

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bitcoin yields. M yeah, I
mean, And here's what why I was

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thinking that because there's currently the ETHERMS
body TF applications in play, and the

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SEC said we don't want any staking
in it now. Eventually I think there

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will be staking. But you may
imagine a bitcoin ETF that's issued with the

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ability to earn yield maybe and boat
in x and the spider chains are an

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option, right that they can do
that, but it's it's a specific ETF

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that's dedicated to that. It's not
you know, people who just want to

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hold bitcoin in the ETF. It's
a separate thing that could be possible later

264
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down the line. No, absolutely, I definitely think that's possible. I

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can see that coming. I think
regulatory yeah, environment needs to catch up,

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but I think that that could have
a lot of demand. Absolutely.

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Now, you guys have recently raised
eleven point five million in funding. Tell

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us about that and who participated?
Yeah, absolutely, So this was actually

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two separate rounds, So I think
now. A year and a few months

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ago we raised three million in like
a first rolling round, and then over

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the last few months we raised again. This one had a huge amount of

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demand. I think we were like
four x oversubscribed participants. There were poly

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Chain of course, very well well
known name Placeholder and Valor and EBCD awesome.

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And what do you guys have on
the remainder of your road map for

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twenty twenty four? Yeah, I
think the next few months will be incredible

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if I'm correct, I think we
will see bitcoin DeFi for the first time

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ever in a big fashion, like
actual bitcoin DeFi, like how you're familiar

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with it, like on Etherium DeFi. I think a lot of people have

279
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tried to do it, but all
the building blocks are there to actually have

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this in a few months time.
So I think we'll launch me in at

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in a month and a half from
now, and then yeah, this can

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be go very big. I think
we have like thirty to fifty depths that

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are going to launch on top of
us, out of which like around ten

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to fifteen native depths that will launch
their tokens on top of us. So

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there're gonna be a lot of activity, a lot of things to do a

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lot of things to gain for everyone. So yeah, I think definitely stay

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very close over the next few months. That's exciting and I'm looking forward to

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that really cool stuff that you guys
are doing. Let's talk about the crypto

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market at large. I would love
to get your thoughts on the big cooins,

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body taps. How you know,
given that you've seen bitcoin since back

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in twenty twelve, and how it's
grown, it's become this mainstream asset now

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and the ETFs had incredible inflows.
I mean, I think I don't think

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anyone was expecting this. What are
your thoughts on how things performed? Yeah,

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I think the first the general environment, I think I have been blown

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away by the amount of demand from
bitcoin ETFs, Like it's way higher than

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I expected. There's a huge amount
of demand for it. From an ideological

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perspective, I'm not sure if I
fully like that, because I rather have

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all the bitcoin in people's own hands, not in the ETFs. However,

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it also means we were able,
as just normal people to front run the

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institutions. So that's quite cool that
we actually were able to do that.

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It was like a meme for years
and years and years and now actually they

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are here now. Of course we
had these first few months of course,

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massive massive up. I think we
are fully consolidating now. Always expected a

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few months of consolidation, and that's
I think where we are. I do

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think those institutions and those ETF holders
are very stable backs like those pension funds.

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They don't quickly buy and then sell
the next day. If they buy,

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it's often for a very very longer
term horizon, and so this can

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be very very sticky capital. So
the institutions sometimes have diamond hands, so

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to speak. Yeah, and on
that note, I would love to get

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your thoughts on bigcoin becoming this reserve
asset. We talked about the corporations putting

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big one on your balance sheet.
We're seeing that grow a lot of different

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companies are doing it now around the
globe, and you have the ETFs being

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launched around the globe spot ETFs of
course, and certain countries like El Salvador

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are embracing it making it a legal
tender. Do you see this trend continuing

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and do you see eventually maybe central
banks holding bitcoin as a reserve accident one

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hundred percent? I think in secret
that's probably already happening. I think there's

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quite a few big papers. Actually
at a Harvard paper I think three years

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ago or three years ago that said
exactly this, if you are a central

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bank in the rest of the world, and you see the US dollar being

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weaponized, you see the US dollar
having very high inflations, basically the fat

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losing a little bit of control,
and gold is always hard to get.

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Bitcoin is a perfect hatch. And
so the paper basically did a lot of

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different calculations, but basically said like, yeah, if you're a central bank

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in the world, you might want
to keep a few percent of your holdings

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in bitcoin. And so Al Salvador
is of course way ahead of the curve.

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But I think the more successful Al
Salvador does, all the rest of

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the countries are really keeping a close
eye, I believe. I think especially

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in South America, people are looking
what El Salvador is doing, and so

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I can I think we're not too
far away from that anymore. I think

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in reality it might already be happening
behind the closed doors, but I think

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we'll soon see see it come out
more publicly, and soon I think in

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the next two years. Yeah,
I agree, and I know Argentina's president

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Malay met with Al Salvador's president,
so I'm curious if that was an item

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they discussed. So I'm really fascinated
to see which country is going to be

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next to follow the Salvador's move.
I would love to get your thoughts on

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US cryptoregulations as someone who's building in
the United States as an entrepreneur. We're

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still waiting on full clarity, you
know. I know Big One in itself

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is classified as not a security,
so it has that clarity, but there's

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other things like DeFi and Yield where
the SEC still has some control and they

340
00:26:59.079 --> 00:27:03.200
want to bring it on their umbrella. But it We're seeing some movement in

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Congress and crypto is becoming this political
thing now. Donald Trump supports bitcoin,

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meeting with bitcoin minors. What are
your thoughts on what's been happening. Yeah,

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I think it's very much needed.
I think over the last three to

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four years, a lot of innovation
has basically been pushed outside of the US,

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and I've seen at firsthand, like
multiple people investors and other founders told

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me, you have to go outside
of the US to launch this, and

347
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so yeah, I was here,
and so I didn't end up doing that.

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So I guess I'm one of the
exceptions that I'm still building building in

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the US. But it's great to
actually see that that one eighty and Congress

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00:27:45.680 --> 00:27:51.519
and political one eighty in terms of
crypto regulations or like at least showing that

351
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they want to change things went really
fast. I was very, very surprised

352
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by that. They did a very
sun and one eighty and everything turned around.

353
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So I'm actually hoping that very soon
that actually also results in easier and

354
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more open regulation, because today it's
yeah, it's very hard. I mean,

355
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I mean in New York here,
UNISWAP is getting soon, summer,

356
00:28:15.640 --> 00:28:18.759
I Wallet is getting soon. They're
coming. I feel like they're coming after

357
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after everyone. Of course, I've
limited the red man power. But yeah,

358
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I think it's very good that we
finally seem some change. M hmm,

359
00:28:27.359 --> 00:28:30.960
yeah, I agree. And it
came out of nowhere. I don't

360
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think anybody was expecting it, but
it's a good sign. Now, if

361
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you had to leave the United States, because you know they're not figuring things

362
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out in time, where would you
go, if you don't mind me asking

363
00:28:41.799 --> 00:28:47.279
that's a good question. Would probably
either either go to one of of like

364
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the more classical Bahamas or something.
But in reality, I'll probably go to

365
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Dubai because I lived in the least. Yeah, and Dubai has become very

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very open, very funnily like when
I lived in the Middle East, like

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I know, like six years ago, crypto was not a thing there and

368
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they moved it around like very very
quickly, and now they're very friendly environment.

369
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So that's probably, yeah, where
I would go. Yeah, there's

370
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a lot of folks in Dubai and
it's one of the most crypto friendly jurisdictions,

371
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and Japan, Singapore and some of
these other places and more open as

372
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well. Now I would love to
get your thoughts on central bank digital currencies

373
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because world governments are taking the blockchain
tech right from Bitcoin and essentially building their

374
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own blockchain or using other public blockchains
and mintingat currencies on there. And it's

375
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called CBDC, similar to stable coins. There's a lot of benefits, but

376
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there's also a lot of potential problems
with it and where our rights can be

377
00:29:52.240 --> 00:29:55.119
trampled on. I'd love to get
your thoughts on what's happening with that.

378
00:29:56.160 --> 00:30:00.680
Yeah, cbdc's it's been a thing
for a few year we all all know

379
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that a lot of governments have been
working on it. Now, this is

380
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one lucky thing that we know that
governments are very, very slow and inefficient,

381
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and so I don't think anyone,
especially like in the West, has

382
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been able to actually ship something or
actually get alignment on something. And that's

383
00:30:19.960 --> 00:30:23.759
a good thing. I think that's
one of the benefits of democracies, like

384
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you need everyone to be aligned.
And I think most of the people understand

385
00:30:27.920 --> 00:30:33.519
that CBDCs or yeah, privacy nightmare. Like at this point already with technology,

386
00:30:33.559 --> 00:30:41.440
governments have extremely extremely amount of control
and once with CBDCs, it becomes

387
00:30:41.519 --> 00:30:47.480
yeah, yeah, another ten x
worse. And so I think as the

388
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opposite, now you actually have tetter
and stable coins that actually provide an alternative.

389
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And so I think you might see
a world where instead of CBDCs,

390
00:30:59.440 --> 00:31:03.240
actually government and say like, yeah, why don't we use I don't know,

391
00:31:03.720 --> 00:31:08.200
a tether or launch a stable coin
without the whole CBDC over regulation part.

392
00:31:10.119 --> 00:31:11.640
Yeah, yeah, I agree with
you, and I'm hoping they go

393
00:31:11.799 --> 00:31:15.160
that direction. At least here in
the United States, it seems like they're

394
00:31:15.200 --> 00:31:21.240
going that direction because there's been some
bills put out by different congressmen anti CBDC.

395
00:31:21.839 --> 00:31:26.200
You know, the FED can't issue
a CBDC directly to consumers and the

396
00:31:26.240 --> 00:31:33.880
people, but you know, maybe
they're able to use us D T us

397
00:31:33.000 --> 00:31:37.359
D C and some of the other
paypals p y U, s D and

398
00:31:37.400 --> 00:31:40.640
so forth. Those are the ones
they are used by the public. But

399
00:31:41.160 --> 00:31:44.440
you know, we'll have to wait
and see. Yeah, maybe it's a

400
00:31:44.519 --> 00:31:48.119
BITC coon BacT stable coin on the
botanic CVM. Yeah yeah, so,

401
00:31:48.519 --> 00:31:52.799
uh, you know, I know
you're you're probably still working on things and

402
00:31:52.839 --> 00:31:57.279
in conversations, but it would make
sense for tether to do something and an

403
00:31:57.319 --> 00:32:01.359
issue on the spider chain, all
right, I got some wrap up questions.

404
00:32:01.559 --> 00:32:06.839
Oh sorry, I said one hundred
percent. I think that makes makes

405
00:32:06.880 --> 00:32:08.680
a lot of sense. I think
just a stable coin on bitcoin that you

406
00:32:08.680 --> 00:32:15.440
can buy with your bitcoin is just
massive. Absolutely. I got some wrap

407
00:32:15.519 --> 00:32:19.680
up questions there for you. If
you could create your own mataverse, what

408
00:32:19.680 --> 00:32:27.640
would the theme be? I named
accompany botanics because I like mathematics in nature.

409
00:32:28.599 --> 00:32:31.720
And then we've got a Spia chain, so probably like something in nature,

410
00:32:32.440 --> 00:32:39.119
a lot of mathematical fractals awesome,
And some rapid fire questions versus favorite

411
00:32:39.119 --> 00:32:52.680
food, Basta, favorite musician or
band, Relligial, favorite movie The Matrix,

412
00:32:53.279 --> 00:32:55.799
Surprised it or not? I think
a lot of people like the Matrix

413
00:32:55.839 --> 00:33:05.279
in crypto for sure. Favorite book
The Bitcoin Standard mm hmm. And uh,

414
00:33:05.519 --> 00:33:07.160
finally, when you're not working at
boat and X, what are you

415
00:33:07.240 --> 00:33:14.319
doing for fun? A lot of
different sports, so I like generally sports,

416
00:33:14.359 --> 00:33:19.039
outdoor sports, team sports. So
here in in Valencidia, I played

417
00:33:19.039 --> 00:33:22.680
a lot of beach volleyball, of
course. Now I I go for a

418
00:33:22.680 --> 00:33:27.920
lot of runs in the city.
Nice. Well, I'm a pleasure chatting

419
00:33:27.920 --> 00:33:30.519
with you. I'm excited for the
main night launch and all the cool things

420
00:33:30.519 --> 00:33:32.920
you guys are doing around bitcoin.
Thank you so much for joining me.

421
00:33:34.440 --> 00:33:37.559
Absolutely, it's great to meet you. Tuning h