WEBVTT 1 00:00:00.240 --> 00:00:03.600 Interchain communication was going to become very very important. And I think, you 2 00:00:03.600 --> 00:00:08.480 know, anyone with a you know, a reasonable computer science background will understand 3 00:00:08.480 --> 00:00:14.640 that no single blockchain can possibly handle all the trendsit if we put everything on 4 00:00:14.759 --> 00:00:18.760 chain like it's just it's just not doable. And so that problem would have 5 00:00:18.800 --> 00:00:21.719 to get solved at some point. You could you could say, well, 6 00:00:21.760 --> 00:00:24.640 maybe we can deal with that later. And I think some people did take 7 00:00:24.640 --> 00:00:30.199 that approach, and so many ecosystems now like you know, Avalanche, Avalanche, 8 00:00:30.239 --> 00:00:33.799 Polygon, you know, the layer twos. Everyone has a different approach 9 00:00:33.840 --> 00:00:37.920 now to trying to solve this problem. But I think Derek you who is 10 00:00:37.920 --> 00:00:41.520 the founder of the Moonbeam project, could see. He had the foresight to 11 00:00:41.560 --> 00:00:45.159 see, hey, this is something that should be tackled earlier because it will 12 00:00:45.240 --> 00:00:55.039 it will make things easier down the road. This content is brought to you 13 00:00:55.079 --> 00:00:59.119 by Uphold, which is one of the top crypto platforms out there which allows 14 00:00:59.159 --> 00:01:02.920 you to easily buy and sell trade Bitcoin and the top all coins in the 15 00:01:02.960 --> 00:01:07.159 market. Uphold lists two hundred and sixty plus cryptocurrencies. They also allow you 16 00:01:07.200 --> 00:01:11.760 to trade precious metals such as gold, silver, palladium, and platinum. 17 00:01:11.879 --> 00:01:14.879 I've been a user of Uphold since twenty eighteen, so I can vouchhoot this 18 00:01:14.959 --> 00:01:19.560 platform. 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If you'd like to learn 27 00:01:56.719 --> 00:02:00.400 more about Uphold, please visit the link in the description. Welcome to the 28 00:02:00.480 --> 00:02:04.079 Thinking Crypto podcast. I'm your host, Tony Edward and with me today is 29 00:02:04.120 --> 00:02:08.199 Aaron Evans, who's the head of operations at the Moonbeam Foundation. Erin great 30 00:02:08.240 --> 00:02:13.000 to have you on. Yeah, thanks for having me, Tony, happy 31 00:02:13.000 --> 00:02:15.280 to be here. Eron. I'm excited to learn about Moonbeam. We were 32 00:02:15.280 --> 00:02:20.960 talking before the recording. I've heard about Moonbeam over the years. I've covered 33 00:02:21.000 --> 00:02:23.840 news around Moonbeam. I spoke to Mike Larrenton about his investment in it, 34 00:02:24.360 --> 00:02:27.840 but I never got a chance to do a deep dive, so I'm hoping 35 00:02:27.879 --> 00:02:30.479 to get that today. So really great to have you on. Before we 36 00:02:30.479 --> 00:02:34.800 get into all things Moonbeam, tell us about yourself, where you're from and 37 00:02:34.840 --> 00:02:39.360 what's your professional background? Sure, yeah, no, So I am based 38 00:02:39.400 --> 00:02:45.439 in Ottawa, Canada. I come from a software engineering background and I've been 39 00:02:45.479 --> 00:02:51.360 in software engineering, building engineering teams and platforms for the last i don't know, 40 00:02:51.400 --> 00:02:54.680 twenty five years. Prior to getting into Web three, I ran a 41 00:02:55.560 --> 00:03:01.840 engineering organization for a SaaS platform and Web two. I was a global communications 42 00:03:01.879 --> 00:03:06.360 platform and had you know, software that offered solutions like this, you wouldn't 43 00:03:06.360 --> 00:03:10.639 have heard of them. But they produced like a you know, video conferencing 44 00:03:10.680 --> 00:03:15.520 and so forth. And so I had a team of about one hundred and 45 00:03:15.560 --> 00:03:22.759 fifty undred and seventy people up until about four years ago when I moved over 46 00:03:22.800 --> 00:03:29.719 to getting into Web three and started up the web the Moonbeam Foundation. So 47 00:03:30.000 --> 00:03:32.280 what was your first encounter or Bitcoin? What was your aha moment. And 48 00:03:32.800 --> 00:03:37.759 in addition, why did you want to come work in this space? Yeah, 49 00:03:37.800 --> 00:03:40.960 so I think for me, so I kind of watched really from the 50 00:03:42.000 --> 00:03:45.000 sidelines. I was really busy at my old thing, running this this like 51 00:03:45.080 --> 00:03:49.840 global platform with like data centers around the world, and always kind of was 52 00:03:49.919 --> 00:03:53.159 interested in bitcoin, but I guess I was super convinced, you know, 53 00:03:53.280 --> 00:03:58.840 about crypto and so forth. It had its ups and downs, and you 54 00:03:58.879 --> 00:04:02.319 know, I mean, coming from a where we're building platforms that do tens 55 00:04:02.360 --> 00:04:05.319 of thousands of transactions per second, you know, and you kind of look 56 00:04:05.319 --> 00:04:10.439 at the scale of these of blockchain platforms are kind of like, gee, 57 00:04:10.560 --> 00:04:13.280 I don't I don't know if it's going to work. But I think really, 58 00:04:13.319 --> 00:04:16.639 you know, in some of the like I don't know if there was 59 00:04:16.680 --> 00:04:20.000 really ever an aha moment for bitcoin, but I think I really started to 60 00:04:20.040 --> 00:04:26.480 get it when I was exposed to ethereum and seeing the potential of when you 61 00:04:26.519 --> 00:04:31.439 add that additional smart contract so you can actually do some programmatic things on the 62 00:04:31.560 --> 00:04:39.600 chains that allow you to do more advanced use cases and so forth. I 63 00:04:39.639 --> 00:04:42.959 think, you know, there's been you know, I think one of the 64 00:04:43.000 --> 00:04:46.399 things just I think that everyone in that if you buy into Web three has 65 00:04:46.439 --> 00:04:50.000 to kind of go through at some point, is you know, the realization 66 00:04:50.120 --> 00:04:55.519 that you know, what is value is just like a social agreement, if 67 00:04:55.560 --> 00:04:59.480 you know, people sort of have to kind of believe it has value. 68 00:04:59.519 --> 00:05:02.759 And that sounds strange, but at the same time that is really all it 69 00:05:02.800 --> 00:05:06.279 is, Like why did we think gold had value or money or whatever else? 70 00:05:06.319 --> 00:05:09.399 And so I think, you know, I think for anyone in the 71 00:05:09.399 --> 00:05:13.240 space who is committed to the space, they've they've you know, had to 72 00:05:13.319 --> 00:05:17.240 overcome that realization. And you know, that happened for me, you know, 73 00:05:17.319 --> 00:05:20.319 probably four or five years ago or something like that. I think what 74 00:05:20.480 --> 00:05:26.519 really attracted me to the space was that even when when we were getting started 75 00:05:26.560 --> 00:05:30.519 with our communications platform, you know, in like I don't know, twenty 76 00:05:30.519 --> 00:05:32.680 two thousand and six, I think it was or something like this, we 77 00:05:32.680 --> 00:05:36.680 were just four guys, but we looked at the space and the incumbents and 78 00:05:39.439 --> 00:05:43.959 we saw how there was it was ripe for disruption, and in other startups 79 00:05:43.959 --> 00:05:46.480 that I've been a part of before, that was always sort of a central 80 00:05:46.480 --> 00:05:49.480 thing. We just wanted to, you know, be this disrupting force. 81 00:05:49.560 --> 00:05:55.959 And I think Web three is a has the potential to be a massive disruptive 82 00:05:56.040 --> 00:06:00.639 force, and the energy and the enthusias as in that, you know, 83 00:06:00.680 --> 00:06:04.560 it's just contagious and I and I really that really attracted me to the space. 84 00:06:04.600 --> 00:06:10.279 And I had some friends that were I have worked with previously that we're 85 00:06:10.600 --> 00:06:15.519 we're we're in the space and doing some cool things and asked me to kind 86 00:06:15.519 --> 00:06:17.040 of get involved, and you know, I sort of I jumped at the 87 00:06:17.120 --> 00:06:23.319 chance. Now you mentioned, you know, the social acceptance, right that 88 00:06:23.360 --> 00:06:27.360 we all accept okay and believe in this thing or this asset, and then 89 00:06:27.439 --> 00:06:31.560 it becomes, you know, the norm everybody in society agrees upon. Okay, 90 00:06:31.600 --> 00:06:35.079 this is Bigcoin's digital goal. And but let's talk about ethere in for 91 00:06:35.079 --> 00:06:41.040 a sec. So you have that layer of this social agreement, you have 92 00:06:41.879 --> 00:06:46.160 maybe the software element, right that people are using this software it has utility, 93 00:06:46.240 --> 00:06:49.800 and then maybe Metcalf's law and network effects. Do you view it in 94 00:06:50.120 --> 00:06:54.680 from all those three perspectives as well? And is there anything else that you 95 00:06:54.720 --> 00:06:59.160 know you're like, yeah, and this other factor as well. Yeah, 96 00:06:59.240 --> 00:07:01.879 I mean I think it's all of those things, you know, I think 97 00:07:01.920 --> 00:07:08.040 it's it's interesting just when it is like a utility token as well, just 98 00:07:08.120 --> 00:07:11.839 that you know, it's just a unit you're buying units of compute and so 99 00:07:11.920 --> 00:07:15.319 forth, whereas bitcoin being more of the digital gold. So there's different kind 100 00:07:15.399 --> 00:07:19.279 of ways to value it. I think one thing that's interesting, you know, 101 00:07:19.480 --> 00:07:25.600 is that traditionally anyway, I think the lower in the stack you are, 102 00:07:25.600 --> 00:07:30.079 the more commoditized thing has become. So in some sense, the idea 103 00:07:30.160 --> 00:07:32.560 that you know, some of these things like ethereum and so forth should just 104 00:07:32.639 --> 00:07:38.120 continue to go up and value kind of is you know, I have a 105 00:07:38.120 --> 00:07:41.519 little bit of trouble sort of getting over that sometimes, whereas with it's it's 106 00:07:41.519 --> 00:07:46.759 a little more obvious with something like bitcoin, and then but lately things just 107 00:07:46.800 --> 00:07:48.600 seem to be getting a little bit even over the top with some of the 108 00:07:48.639 --> 00:07:53.480 mean points and so forth, where you know, okay, I guess this 109 00:07:53.560 --> 00:07:57.399 thing has value, but you know, it just starting to feel a little 110 00:07:57.439 --> 00:08:01.040 bit like, you know, I think, what is it to financial nihilism 111 00:08:01.120 --> 00:08:03.160 or something? I think is the term that people have been been using lately, 112 00:08:05.439 --> 00:08:07.920 and just a lot of people, you know, trying to get in 113 00:08:07.000 --> 00:08:11.800 and then you know, you know, musical chairs not be the last one 114 00:08:11.839 --> 00:08:13.439 to get out. And I think, you know, I don't know. 115 00:08:13.480 --> 00:08:18.800 I mean, it's it's it's bringing attention. I don't know if if I 116 00:08:18.800 --> 00:08:22.000 if I love it. You know, it's just for you know, when 117 00:08:22.000 --> 00:08:24.319 we're trying to build things, like real things in the space. But so 118 00:08:24.439 --> 00:08:28.720 I think if that that concept can kind of be taken a little bit too 119 00:08:28.800 --> 00:08:30.800 far. But then again, you know, then you got to ask yourself, 120 00:08:30.920 --> 00:08:33.240 who am I to argue? Right, like, you know, like 121 00:08:33.279 --> 00:08:37.080 whatever it is, you know, I feel like the mean cooin thing is 122 00:08:37.080 --> 00:08:41.440 almost more like like a sports team, like you know, you you You're 123 00:08:41.519 --> 00:08:46.639 like, I'm on team you know, Pepe or whatever it is, and 124 00:08:46.639 --> 00:08:50.279 and you know, I believe it in and we're all in this together and 125 00:08:50.279 --> 00:08:54.759 and yeah, so but but yeah, you know that again, going back 126 00:08:54.799 --> 00:08:58.639 to Web three in general, it's it's just fascinating because there's so many it's 127 00:08:58.639 --> 00:09:05.399 not there's finance, there's like psychology, there's you know, political issues and 128 00:09:05.759 --> 00:09:11.919 philosophical and there's so many different aspects that make it a really sort of intellectually 129 00:09:11.960 --> 00:09:15.480 stimulating area to be in as well. Yeah, and to that point, 130 00:09:15.519 --> 00:09:18.559 I have a kind of a love hate relationship with the mean coin situation. 131 00:09:18.159 --> 00:09:22.879 But I've been studying it like trying to figure out what is happening here, 132 00:09:22.000 --> 00:09:28.080 like this is so ridiculous some of these coins, but there's liquidity and capital 133 00:09:28.080 --> 00:09:33.879 coming into it. And then I think I heard raupowe a macro investors say 134 00:09:33.960 --> 00:09:37.480 it's culture in the blockchain. So that's one aspect. But then I think 135 00:09:37.519 --> 00:09:41.879 the other thing is you have a truly global asset class. And I think 136 00:09:41.919 --> 00:09:46.320 of like the stock market in New York Stock Exchange. It's not accessible to 137 00:09:46.320 --> 00:09:48.159 everybody around the world. I don't think people in India and certain countries can 138 00:09:48.240 --> 00:09:54.039 Egypt and whatever. But these tokens, I mean, you have a smartphone, 139 00:09:54.039 --> 00:09:58.000 man, you could be in Egypt, or in Australia or Iceland wherever, 140 00:09:58.360 --> 00:10:01.720 and you've got a good Internet connection you can access it. And then 141 00:10:01.720 --> 00:10:05.600 you have many of these tokens are hardcap in a sense that they have a 142 00:10:05.600 --> 00:10:09.840 limited supply. A lot of tokens are steak. Let's say, for example, 143 00:10:09.879 --> 00:10:15.080 like etherorem, so you have limited supply. And I think it's like 144 00:10:15.120 --> 00:10:18.559 a combination of perfect storm roll all these things that drives incredible value in hyper 145 00:10:18.600 --> 00:10:22.519 speculation. I don't know if you agree with that, Yeah, no, 146 00:10:22.639 --> 00:10:24.320 I mean I think that's interesting. You know, just it is culture, 147 00:10:24.639 --> 00:10:28.799 digitized culture in a way, I think, you know, there's value to 148 00:10:28.840 --> 00:10:31.519 digitized culture. I mean so again like who am I kind of argue with 149 00:10:31.559 --> 00:10:37.279 that, And I guess insofar as it's an instrument that has has value can 150 00:10:37.320 --> 00:10:41.159 be transmitted globally, as you said, there's a lot of liquidity, then 151 00:10:41.279 --> 00:10:45.840 like that's that's useful, right, And I mean I think, you know, 152 00:10:45.960 --> 00:10:48.639 personally, I'm more like, you know, I think stable coins, 153 00:10:48.639 --> 00:10:54.080 for example, just you know, for improving cross border transactions and having those 154 00:10:54.080 --> 00:10:58.559 pools of liquidity to you know, you know, facilitate that but also provide 155 00:10:58.600 --> 00:11:05.919 access to other markets, you know, provide a really good framework for that. 156 00:11:05.000 --> 00:11:07.879 But it really could be anything, right, It's just the prices are 157 00:11:07.879 --> 00:11:13.600 so volatile, so you know, with some of those other things that it 158 00:11:13.639 --> 00:11:16.320 can make it difficult for still stilitating those kinds of things. But yeah, 159 00:11:16.320 --> 00:11:18.080 I mean, you know, as I was saying, you know, I 160 00:11:18.159 --> 00:11:24.440 think the digitized culture, it's that's a very interesting concept and you know, 161 00:11:24.879 --> 00:11:28.039 and and again getting back to what I was saying about, like, yeah, 162 00:11:28.039 --> 00:11:33.159 there's just philosophical questions here that are just very fascinating to think about, 163 00:11:33.240 --> 00:11:37.080 you know, as but you know. I mean there's no question that everyone's 164 00:11:37.159 --> 00:11:41.399 lives were moving more digital, so culture should move digital as well. Right, 165 00:11:41.559 --> 00:11:46.279 And you know, you know if you went back to the you know, 166 00:11:46.440 --> 00:11:48.759 early two thousands or nineties and you said, hey, what should you 167 00:11:48.840 --> 00:11:52.360 know? What shouldn't go to the internet? Right? I mean, like 168 00:11:52.399 --> 00:11:54.639 come on, like everything should move there, and now everything should move to 169 00:11:54.720 --> 00:12:00.240 be like digitally native. Yeah, I definitely agreement there. Now, you 170 00:12:00.320 --> 00:12:05.279 guys at Moonbeam are building incredible Web three technology mean coins aside, Right, 171 00:12:05.360 --> 00:12:09.200 let's talk about real world application and things like that. For those who don't 172 00:12:09.200 --> 00:12:13.320 know, tell us about Moonbeam, and you know what makes it different? 173 00:12:13.000 --> 00:12:20.639 Sure? So Moonbeam is a Layer one blockchain, it's EVM compatible, it's 174 00:12:20.679 --> 00:12:24.799 a it's deployed as a pairachain on Polka Dot, and I think you know 175 00:12:24.919 --> 00:12:30.919 it was launched. We launched in January of twenty twenty two, but the 176 00:12:30.919 --> 00:12:37.200 project been in the works for many years and I think originally the idea was 177 00:12:37.200 --> 00:12:41.799 that we could combine the power of the substrate framework that kind of came from 178 00:12:41.840 --> 00:12:50.399 the Polka Dot ecosystem and provide EVM compatibility, which would facilitate interconnectivity with other 179 00:12:50.960 --> 00:12:56.039 ecosystems more easily and provide you know, an environment that's familiar to many developers 180 00:12:58.440 --> 00:13:01.159 too. But at the same time, leverage substrate technology, and I think 181 00:13:01.480 --> 00:13:05.200 we've largely succeeded. I think you know, we've been called sort of the 182 00:13:05.200 --> 00:13:09.879 gateway to Polka dot UH and and other things of that nature. We have, 183 00:13:11.360 --> 00:13:15.240 you know, liquidity routing from say ethereum into other pair of chains in 184 00:13:15.279 --> 00:13:20.120 the pokea dot ecosystem. You know, the benefits of using the substrate stack. 185 00:13:20.279 --> 00:13:24.759 We get you know, built in a very sophisticated built in governments governance 186 00:13:24.840 --> 00:13:28.720 framework. Excuse me, So you know, we do all our upgrades through 187 00:13:28.720 --> 00:13:33.039 governance, and we can do forokless upgrades, which means we can we can 188 00:13:33.080 --> 00:13:39.000 move really quickly. So we do a new there's a new release a chain 189 00:13:39.200 --> 00:13:43.559 upgrade every six weeks, so unlike say ethereum or something like that, you 190 00:13:43.600 --> 00:13:46.519 know, we can we can pivot very quickly. We've also exposed a lot 191 00:13:46.519 --> 00:13:52.279 of the underlying substrate things, such as governance or even more advanced pre compiles 192 00:13:52.279 --> 00:13:58.840 for doing UH transactions in batch or gasless things in in sort of superior ways 193 00:13:58.840 --> 00:14:03.000 and can do on ethereum. So we've exposed those things through the EVM, 194 00:14:03.080 --> 00:14:07.759 and so that's that's sort of been kind of what we've been up to for 195 00:14:07.759 --> 00:14:11.039 the last couple of years, and especially sort of this focus on a on 196 00:14:11.200 --> 00:14:16.080 cross chain infrastructure and connecting different ecosystems. Oh sorry, we've just yeah, 197 00:14:16.120 --> 00:14:20.320 we just had a big you know, update to our roadmap and sort of 198 00:14:20.399 --> 00:14:26.399 a refreshed sort of strategy. And as part of that, you know, 199 00:14:26.440 --> 00:14:33.039 there's big uh uh performance improvements. We're looking at reducing block times from twelve 200 00:14:33.080 --> 00:14:39.679 seconds to six seconds eight eight x throughput by increasing the gas limit of blocks. 201 00:14:41.600 --> 00:14:46.320 But we're also doing a lot of interesting things around account abstraction. I 202 00:14:46.360 --> 00:14:48.720 think we can do a lot better than what you know, some of these 203 00:14:48.759 --> 00:14:54.600 IP standards are are are proposing. Where we've got a project called zk Off 204 00:14:54.799 --> 00:15:03.639 which will allow for onboarding of Web tw users more easily and to have longer 205 00:15:03.639 --> 00:15:07.399 live sessions so that you don't have to get prompted every time you want to 206 00:15:07.440 --> 00:15:11.720 do something a transaction on the chain. So our new emphasis is really around 207 00:15:13.840 --> 00:15:18.559 a more integrated Web three ecosystem where you're not having to like combine different you 208 00:15:18.639 --> 00:15:22.080 know, maybe even you don't want to have separate wild software. It could 209 00:15:22.080 --> 00:15:24.480 be all built into adapt. You want to provide the infrastructure so that DAP 210 00:15:24.639 --> 00:15:33.720 developers can build really compelling experiences that are going to be more easily accepted by 211 00:15:35.399 --> 00:15:41.320 to draw more people in. Now, you mentioned being a power chain via 212 00:15:41.399 --> 00:15:46.399 Polka Dot. Why did you select polka dot specifically? And is there plans 213 00:15:46.399 --> 00:15:50.960 to integrate with other blockchains out there? Sure? Yeah, so I mean 214 00:15:50.120 --> 00:15:54.080 the you know, I mean, it really was the project, the core 215 00:15:54.120 --> 00:15:58.000 project team or something at the Foundation. But I think the reasoning was, 216 00:15:58.279 --> 00:16:00.879 you know, I think I think really they were looking at a couple of 217 00:16:00.879 --> 00:16:07.559 ecosystems, probably Cosmos and Poke doont the reason being that both of those ecosystems 218 00:16:07.840 --> 00:16:12.960 could see that interchain communication was going to become very very important. And I 219 00:16:14.000 --> 00:16:18.120 think, you know, anyone with a you know, a reasonable computer science 220 00:16:18.159 --> 00:16:23.480 background will understand that no single block blockchain can possibly handle all the trendsit if 221 00:16:23.519 --> 00:16:26.840 we put everything on chain like it's just it's just not doable, and so 222 00:16:27.720 --> 00:16:30.840 that problem would have to get solved at some point. You could you could 223 00:16:30.879 --> 00:16:33.480 say, well, maybe we can deal with that later. And I think 224 00:16:33.480 --> 00:16:38.480 some people did take that approach, and so many ecosystems now like you know 225 00:16:38.559 --> 00:16:42.679 Avalanche, Avalanche, Polygon, you know, the layer twos. Everyone has 226 00:16:42.720 --> 00:16:48.080 a different approach now to trying to solve this problem. But I think Derek 227 00:16:48.159 --> 00:16:51.720 you who is the founder of the Moonbeam project, could see he had the 228 00:16:51.720 --> 00:16:55.440 foresight to see, hey, this is something that should be tackled earlier because 229 00:16:55.480 --> 00:16:59.799 it will it will make things easier down the road. As for why pokant 230 00:16:59.840 --> 00:17:03.319 over say Cosmos, I think I think just you know, there are a 231 00:17:03.440 --> 00:17:07.920 variety of reasons, but I think the substrate framework in particular made a lot 232 00:17:07.960 --> 00:17:11.960 of sense. The other thing with with with poke dot is you kind of 233 00:17:12.000 --> 00:17:18.279 are outsourcing the security, right so in the same way that a layer two 234 00:17:18.000 --> 00:17:23.119 is outsourcing security to ethereum. That's what pok doont does. And what is 235 00:17:23.119 --> 00:17:29.079 that that what that allows you to do is focus on what you do best 236 00:17:29.279 --> 00:17:34.759 rather than having to reinvent you know, consensus and and securing doing that sort 237 00:17:34.759 --> 00:17:40.359 of the validation and securing of the transactions, so you can kind of leverage 238 00:17:40.359 --> 00:17:42.440 that. I mean, it just it doesn't make sense to have to build 239 00:17:42.559 --> 00:17:47.559 everything from scratch every time when you're when you're launching something new, right, 240 00:17:47.599 --> 00:17:51.559 you want to stand on the shoulders of giants as much as possible and leverage 241 00:17:51.559 --> 00:17:55.160 sort of that best in breed technology. So the Pokeon people can focus on 242 00:17:55.440 --> 00:17:59.920 the core securing of all the transactions across all the para chains, and we 243 00:18:00.039 --> 00:18:03.839 can focus on providing the best integrated Web three environment for DAPT developers to deploy 244 00:18:03.920 --> 00:18:08.039 too. Yeah, that absolutely makes sense. Tell us about some of the 245 00:18:08.160 --> 00:18:12.440 use cases. What are people building on Moonbeam as a Web three applications, 246 00:18:12.880 --> 00:18:18.680 tokenization of real world assets and so forth. Yeah, so, you know, 247 00:18:18.720 --> 00:18:22.279 we did, In fact, we just announced a large innovation fund which 248 00:18:22.319 --> 00:18:27.519 is going to be primarily focused ten million dollars innovation fund primarily focused on our 249 00:18:27.759 --> 00:18:33.799 WA projects and and gaming as well as you know, probably starting to look 250 00:18:33.839 --> 00:18:38.319 at some other areas is peep in and things of that nature. So we 251 00:18:38.359 --> 00:18:45.279 do have a lot of projects focused on gaming and providing gaming infrastructure, especially 252 00:18:45.640 --> 00:18:51.160 for cross chain use cases. You know, there are even cases where people 253 00:18:51.200 --> 00:18:56.759 are leveraging Moonbeam for some of the marketplace and so forth, or in gaming 254 00:18:56.799 --> 00:19:03.400 infrastructure, but then the games may actually be located on different chains or across 255 00:19:03.480 --> 00:19:10.440 multiple chains. And then we've had a lot of focus particularly in in some 256 00:19:10.519 --> 00:19:15.599 emerging markets, especially Brazil where we've had seen a lot of traction around r 257 00:19:15.759 --> 00:19:22.799 w as servicing that market. And so yeah, there's been a number of 258 00:19:22.880 --> 00:19:26.880 projects. We have actually a bunch of announcements coming up over the next month, 259 00:19:26.960 --> 00:19:30.440 so I can't can't reveal those, but there you know, one for 260 00:19:30.519 --> 00:19:36.440 example, there's a group out of out of Brazil called Tokenisa that is focused 261 00:19:36.480 --> 00:19:40.640 on tokenizing real world assets and they're doing some pretty interesting stuff. I mean, 262 00:19:40.759 --> 00:19:45.119 you know there's kind of the token is securities obviously that's sort of a 263 00:19:45.240 --> 00:19:48.880 prime example, and you know, for people in Brazil that's really attractive because 264 00:19:49.920 --> 00:19:55.559 you know, if there's concerns around sort of currencies and this kind of thing 265 00:19:55.720 --> 00:20:00.119 or how their assets might be, know, if they want to sort of 266 00:20:00.119 --> 00:20:03.960 protect the value of their assets in the long term, you know, they're 267 00:20:03.000 --> 00:20:11.039 looking for other products and looking at gaining access to international markets, so that 268 00:20:11.160 --> 00:20:14.200 market is right for it. But but just getting back to TOKENESA, I 269 00:20:14.200 --> 00:20:18.079 mean they're doing, for example, in Brazil, I guess there's a lot 270 00:20:18.079 --> 00:20:23.359 of times where citizens will make a claim against the government for various reasons they've 271 00:20:23.359 --> 00:20:26.599 been wronged in some way, and it's at all levels of government. And 272 00:20:27.279 --> 00:20:34.359 there's law firms that specialized in handling these cases. And there's a namepork Precatorious 273 00:20:34.519 --> 00:20:37.880 I think or something. I don't know, it's you know, a Portuguese 274 00:20:37.920 --> 00:20:42.759 name. But what happens is when there's a judgment, it can take like 275 00:20:42.920 --> 00:20:48.480 weeks or months or even years for you to receive your settlement. Some of 276 00:20:48.559 --> 00:20:52.440 these people aren't really well banked or anything like that. So the idea is 277 00:20:52.480 --> 00:21:00.359 to tokenize those liabilities and then they're already a secondary market already exists. People 278 00:21:00.400 --> 00:21:03.559 will sell them at a discount to get the money right away, and then 279 00:21:03.559 --> 00:21:08.759 someone else is holding that that debt that the government owes. And but however, 280 00:21:08.920 --> 00:21:12.599 you know, there's lots of fraud and it's paperwork and difficult to track, 281 00:21:12.759 --> 00:21:18.799 and so they're tokenizing this process. And so that's something that you know 282 00:21:18.839 --> 00:21:22.119 wouldn't really occur to you know, you or I sort of living in North 283 00:21:22.119 --> 00:21:26.119 America, but just you know, a fascinating use case. I mean, 284 00:21:26.119 --> 00:21:32.799 they're they're looking at token real estate and other financial instruments. But I you 285 00:21:32.839 --> 00:21:37.079 know, that's just you know, just the breadth of applications for r w 286 00:21:37.200 --> 00:21:42.559 A is just astounding. And so they they're leveraging moonbeam. I think a 287 00:21:42.559 --> 00:21:48.880 lot of the r w A projects that are deploying a moonbeam are attracted to 288 00:21:48.920 --> 00:21:55.119 the cross chain capabilities because they understand that there's a lot of different markets and 289 00:21:55.240 --> 00:22:00.359 chains and support that they'll want to tap into and connect liquidity from various various 290 00:22:00.400 --> 00:22:04.799 sources. Question for you, Aaron, and this is something I'm genuinely curious 291 00:22:04.839 --> 00:22:10.839 about. As you guys are approaching like Web two companies and you have, 292 00:22:11.200 --> 00:22:15.279 you know, experience in Web two and software and so forth, how are 293 00:22:15.279 --> 00:22:22.000 you pitching them to integrate Web three or to transition to Web three. Yeah, 294 00:22:22.079 --> 00:22:23.799 I mean it's kind of a difficult cell. I mean it can be. 295 00:22:25.559 --> 00:22:30.039 I think there's got to be something you know, in it for them, 296 00:22:30.079 --> 00:22:33.279 and so there are for for enterprise, there can be, and especially 297 00:22:33.279 --> 00:22:37.599 with you know, I think with that r w A is showing, especially 298 00:22:37.000 --> 00:22:42.079 with some of the trade, finance and so forth, a lot of efficiencies 299 00:22:42.079 --> 00:22:47.920 that could be gained. So that's for the finance sector in particular. I 300 00:22:47.960 --> 00:22:56.160 think the more difficult cell is that if you are a more centralized web to 301 00:22:56.359 --> 00:23:00.680 company, you know what's in it for them? I mean they can sort 302 00:23:00.720 --> 00:23:06.240 of say hey to their users. Well, it's data ownership and and you 303 00:23:06.240 --> 00:23:08.440 know, don't you want better data ownership or sovereignty or whatever. But I 304 00:23:08.440 --> 00:23:12.480 mean if they have a good business already then you know, and and and 305 00:23:12.559 --> 00:23:15.160 why give up that sort of competitive mode, right, I mean, if 306 00:23:15.160 --> 00:23:19.279 you're if you're a Twitter or Facebook or whatever, you're not incentivized to to 307 00:23:22.160 --> 00:23:26.720 you know, make that open and let users easily port to other platforms. 308 00:23:26.759 --> 00:23:33.079 So, but I think there are certainly applications in supply chain in in other 309 00:23:33.119 --> 00:23:37.960 areas where there's a lot of efficiencies can be gained and so and and uh 310 00:23:38.000 --> 00:23:45.359 and whether it's just in reducing paperwork or you know, sort of more manual 311 00:23:45.400 --> 00:23:48.400 or clunky things that take longer to settle or that costs more money. There's 312 00:23:48.440 --> 00:23:55.240 also just even things around access to capital and pulling in more capital as well. 313 00:23:55.279 --> 00:23:57.160 As you know, I do think it's going to help a lot in 314 00:23:57.240 --> 00:24:03.599 terms of uh fraud, you know, as as these as these technologies mature. 315 00:24:04.279 --> 00:24:07.519 Yeah, yeah, to your point, like certain industries, it absolutely 316 00:24:07.519 --> 00:24:11.720 makes sense for them to move right away because, like I said, improves 317 00:24:11.200 --> 00:24:15.519 efficiencies and so forth. But I'm curious, you know, as far as 318 00:24:15.559 --> 00:24:18.559 the timeline and then This is a hard question because we saw it with the 319 00:24:18.599 --> 00:24:25.240 Internet and so forth. There's there's a some people may be slow to adopt 320 00:24:25.279 --> 00:24:29.240 this technology, but eventually disruption is going to be at their door, where 321 00:24:29.240 --> 00:24:32.559 maybe a startup or a new competitor comes in and they're doing it better, 322 00:24:32.559 --> 00:24:36.000 and consumers like, oh, I like this better because it allows me to 323 00:24:36.000 --> 00:24:40.319 do all these great things. But these companies which are deep rooted and you 324 00:24:40.359 --> 00:24:42.359 know, they have this stronghold in the market and they're making a lot of 325 00:24:42.400 --> 00:24:48.039 revenue. You know, is it like over the next five to ten years 326 00:24:48.039 --> 00:24:51.519 that maybe we start seeing that transition or do you think it happens sooner? 327 00:24:53.519 --> 00:24:56.960 Yeah, I don't know these things. It is very hard to say. 328 00:24:57.200 --> 00:25:04.599 There's usually some event or or there's some something that sort of very causes things 329 00:25:04.599 --> 00:25:07.319 to happen very quickly. So it could be that, you know, in 330 00:25:07.359 --> 00:25:11.319 the next couple of years, there's a killer use case, or you know, 331 00:25:11.359 --> 00:25:14.920 something that gains network of facts that starts sort of an avalanche. It's 332 00:25:14.920 --> 00:25:18.000 probably going to happen in specific industries, you know, And I do think 333 00:25:18.079 --> 00:25:22.799 like I think is very well happening in sort of the RWA industry now. 334 00:25:23.480 --> 00:25:27.960 But I think you know, even then, like in with with with finance, 335 00:25:29.240 --> 00:25:32.319 there's bound to be some holdouts, right, and I think, you 336 00:25:32.359 --> 00:25:34.279 know, just go like I kind of think of it a little bit. 337 00:25:36.359 --> 00:25:38.799 There's a lot of parallels with the industry I was in previously, which you 338 00:25:38.839 --> 00:25:44.240 know, was was involved in telecommunications as well. So some of the platform 339 00:25:44.240 --> 00:25:48.880 marfering that we had included making phone calls internationally and so forth. And so 340 00:25:48.599 --> 00:25:52.160 you know, you had this new internet based technology way of doing it, 341 00:25:52.559 --> 00:25:59.079 and then you had older like telcos and so forth that were regionally around the 342 00:25:59.119 --> 00:26:02.559 world, and some of them have monopolies and they were not keen to like 343 00:26:03.079 --> 00:26:10.720 move to an internet based service because it cuts into their margins control surveillance maybe 344 00:26:10.759 --> 00:26:14.279 in some cases, and so they would have these holdouts. But so what 345 00:26:14.839 --> 00:26:21.720 we built was a global network where we would carry the traffic and then get 346 00:26:21.759 --> 00:26:25.319 local partners and then have the call sort of pop up there. And that's 347 00:26:25.400 --> 00:26:30.200 kind of what's happening I think with finance stable coins. Cross border settlement is 348 00:26:30.240 --> 00:26:36.359 I mean, we can use things like stable coins to easily move capital digitally 349 00:26:36.920 --> 00:26:40.480 from different parts in the world, but then you can have local banking partners 350 00:26:40.519 --> 00:26:45.559 and local finance, financial institutions in those regions to then deal to handle sort 351 00:26:45.599 --> 00:26:49.119 of the last mile, and there's going to be ones that sort of pulled 352 00:26:49.119 --> 00:26:52.920 out. But I think like as that progresses, what you find is instead 353 00:26:52.920 --> 00:26:56.440 of there being pockets of the digitized things, but like and then the bigger 354 00:26:56.480 --> 00:27:03.079 bubble is like the traditional it's going to invert and the the big you know, 355 00:27:03.119 --> 00:27:07.079 the big sphere will be all digitized and just be little pockets of the 356 00:27:07.119 --> 00:27:11.279 more traditional thing. And I think where that inflection point is, say for 357 00:27:11.279 --> 00:27:15.240 for finance, it's you know, it's difficult to say. I think I 358 00:27:15.279 --> 00:27:19.599 think with just with the the kind of momentum we're seeing with our w as, 359 00:27:19.640 --> 00:27:23.039 I think in finance, we're going to see a sea change over the 360 00:27:23.039 --> 00:27:29.279 next save five years where where clearly it's headed in that direction, kind of 361 00:27:29.319 --> 00:27:34.160 not headed by in the in the reverse. Now you mentioned like Brazil and 362 00:27:34.200 --> 00:27:38.880 some of these other markets are you know, prime for introducing these solutions and 363 00:27:40.440 --> 00:27:42.519 tokenization and world oral assets. But here in the United States, we're seeing 364 00:27:42.559 --> 00:27:49.960 some big institutions are starting to uh test this piloted and go through uh you 365 00:27:49.960 --> 00:27:53.640 know, different or trying different blockchains and so forth. Are you approaching any 366 00:27:53.680 --> 00:27:59.000 of the black Rocks and these folks here in the United States. Uh, 367 00:27:59.079 --> 00:28:03.599 yeah, I mean we've we've been talking to some some partners I think that 368 00:28:03.640 --> 00:28:07.559 are involved. I mean, there are ways to access some of these funds. 369 00:28:07.559 --> 00:28:11.720 So yeah, there's definitely those discussions are ongoing. I think one of 370 00:28:11.720 --> 00:28:15.480 the tricky things, especially with these these tokenized assets like the like the block 371 00:28:17.039 --> 00:28:22.200 black Rock Fund and so forth, is that you know, there are institutions, 372 00:28:23.000 --> 00:28:26.720 you know, it it's sort of you know for accredited investors, it's 373 00:28:26.720 --> 00:28:32.559 for institutional investors and so forth. So while there's a lot of momentum, 374 00:28:32.559 --> 00:28:36.880 there's still a challenge there and that it's not open to retail and you know 375 00:28:37.079 --> 00:28:38.599 it is you know, this is the thing that isn't talked about a ton 376 00:28:38.680 --> 00:28:41.960 but you know it's all you know, kyced and so forth. And then 377 00:28:42.279 --> 00:28:45.119 they're kind of like, well and then from there they're like, well, 378 00:28:45.160 --> 00:28:48.200 once once you have it, it's up to you kind of what you you 379 00:28:48.240 --> 00:28:51.359 do with it, like if you want us to go sell it on this 380 00:28:51.440 --> 00:28:55.119 tokenized thing on secondary markets. But then you know, as part of the 381 00:28:55.119 --> 00:28:56.960 redemption, there's there's if you ever want to redeem, it's like, Wow, 382 00:28:57.000 --> 00:29:00.359 it's back to you got to hand it out, but he's completed KYC 383 00:29:00.599 --> 00:29:04.640 kind of thing, right, So it's you know, I think, and 384 00:29:06.000 --> 00:29:11.319 there's not a lot of transaction volume yet. And though although the TVL is 385 00:29:11.319 --> 00:29:15.400 building, like I said, it's it's mainly institutional, and I think the 386 00:29:15.400 --> 00:29:19.839 the the attraction there is really for for a lot of you know, frankly 387 00:29:19.839 --> 00:29:26.039 a lot of companies in crypto who maybe are you know for a while. 388 00:29:26.039 --> 00:29:29.160 I mean it's difficult, like if you're let's say, or a crypto foundation, 389 00:29:29.720 --> 00:29:33.680 it can be very difficult to get good banking services. It can be 390 00:29:33.799 --> 00:29:38.640 very difficult to get access to treasuries, right, so a token ied treasure 391 00:29:38.680 --> 00:29:45.319 all of a sudden becomes very easy. So you know, we've been we've 392 00:29:45.359 --> 00:29:49.119 been in discussions with some of these you know, partners and so forth, 393 00:29:49.160 --> 00:29:56.960 but usually there's sort of an act from the foundation to you know, deposit 394 00:29:56.119 --> 00:30:00.880 sizable amounts into these funds. Right, it's off in times of tit for 395 00:30:00.960 --> 00:30:03.279 tat kind of thing. And so you know, as I said, we've 396 00:30:03.279 --> 00:30:07.200 been seeing a lot of momentum in Brazil, and I think we're going to 397 00:30:07.240 --> 00:30:14.200 start looking at some other emerging markets where it's it's a little more you know, 398 00:30:14.319 --> 00:30:18.759 servicing the needs of these new markets and opening up new new markets and 399 00:30:18.799 --> 00:30:26.759 capital from from say, you know, less sort of institutional clients, right, 400 00:30:26.880 --> 00:30:32.160 or or or participants, I guess market participants. Now, do you 401 00:30:32.200 --> 00:30:37.720 believe that in Brazil and market emerging markets that this technology might be adopted faster 402 00:30:38.200 --> 00:30:42.480 given that they don't have the red tape or bureaucracy and you know, this 403 00:30:44.279 --> 00:30:48.880 goliath infrastructure that for example, that we have in the United States. Yeah, 404 00:30:48.000 --> 00:30:53.319 I think, you know, Brazil is still I think you know, 405 00:30:53.400 --> 00:30:57.519 they're they're making a lot of doing a lot of work on on on regulatory 406 00:30:57.559 --> 00:31:02.240 in this space. I mean, I think it's important regulation, you know, 407 00:31:02.279 --> 00:31:04.519 I don't know. I'm sure there's a lot of people who don't like 408 00:31:04.599 --> 00:31:07.079 the what I say, but regulation is good, right, I mean, 409 00:31:07.119 --> 00:31:11.559 I think I hope people realize that, like, you know, regulation by 410 00:31:11.640 --> 00:31:15.759 enforcements we've seen is not good. What we need is clarity, right, 411 00:31:15.000 --> 00:31:19.599 and that protects people and you want that and that's going to you know, 412 00:31:19.680 --> 00:31:25.079 because then we're going to have people building things that are building them in a 413 00:31:25.119 --> 00:31:30.359 responsible way. So you can't totally kind of just say, oh, we're 414 00:31:30.400 --> 00:31:33.240 just gonna want to you know, put you know, push away all the 415 00:31:33.279 --> 00:31:36.400 red tape and just you know, so there still has to be that regulation, 416 00:31:36.480 --> 00:31:41.480 there has to be uh proper investor investor protection. But I do think 417 00:31:41.519 --> 00:31:47.960 that they're more motivated and there's a lot more demand and and that comes from 418 00:31:48.599 --> 00:31:52.279 the and so that they will move quicker, I believe, And and a 419 00:31:52.319 --> 00:31:57.240 lot of that is because they just don't have the mature financial rails that you 420 00:31:57.240 --> 00:32:00.480 know, you and I are used to in North America. I mean, 421 00:32:00.519 --> 00:32:04.480 I think a real wake up call, you know, for the Foundation. 422 00:32:04.720 --> 00:32:07.200 The movie Foundation was, you know, I mean we'll recall back to uh 423 00:32:08.119 --> 00:32:13.799 March of last year. You know, you had Signature and Silver gad and 424 00:32:14.000 --> 00:32:16.440 you know, a Silicon Valley bank, and all of a sudden it was 425 00:32:16.519 --> 00:32:22.920 like came really became really difficult for you know, for the Foundation to get 426 00:32:22.920 --> 00:32:25.559 banking right. And you know, so then you got a first hand taste 427 00:32:25.799 --> 00:32:30.920 of what it's like to be in some of these other markets where we take 428 00:32:30.960 --> 00:32:34.960 it for granted, and you're just all of a sudden you're like, well, 429 00:32:34.960 --> 00:32:37.720 where, you know, where can we where is a safe place to 430 00:32:37.799 --> 00:32:44.039 part cash or you know, and so you know, this is what people 431 00:32:44.039 --> 00:32:51.079 are dealing with every day. They're just not getting great financial services. And 432 00:32:51.759 --> 00:32:57.160 I think similar to kind of mobile adoption in Africa and Europe, where you 433 00:32:57.200 --> 00:33:01.720 know, instead of building out landlines everywhere and maturing their infrastructure that way, 434 00:33:01.720 --> 00:33:05.440 they leap broad straight to mobile, right, And so I think what you'll 435 00:33:05.440 --> 00:33:08.680 see in these emerging markets is a leap broad straight to kind of blockchain based 436 00:33:08.680 --> 00:33:15.920 financial rails, and and that will cause them to move quicker. I think 437 00:33:15.039 --> 00:33:20.200 just out of a out of a need necessity. Yeah, definitely agree with 438 00:33:20.279 --> 00:33:23.799 you there. I think I forgot to ask you earlier about and you may 439 00:33:23.839 --> 00:33:29.400 have addressed this, but the protocol that Moonbeam uses as a blockchain, we 440 00:33:29.480 --> 00:33:31.200 know there's proof of steak, proof of work and different things out there. 441 00:33:31.480 --> 00:33:35.359 What protocols Moonboom use. And also if you could tell us about the g 442 00:33:35.720 --> 00:33:38.599 l m R token, sure, yeah, so, yeah, great, 443 00:33:39.319 --> 00:33:43.559 I probably should have touched on this before, but yeah, so Moonbeam is 444 00:33:43.640 --> 00:33:47.240 proof of steak, it's a delegated proof of steak model. So and the 445 00:33:47.240 --> 00:33:53.640 Glimmer token JLMR is our utility token. It's the native token of the network. 446 00:33:54.359 --> 00:33:59.079 So think of it as you know, we're in your FRUM compatible chain, 447 00:33:59.440 --> 00:34:02.200 so it's our ethereum. Basically you need it to transact on the network 448 00:34:02.559 --> 00:34:07.359 to deploy contracts, right, so it's the utility token. But it's also 449 00:34:07.559 --> 00:34:14.440 used in the security of the network in this staking process, so as end 450 00:34:14.519 --> 00:34:19.519 users can delegate their steak to a colator, which are essentially block producers, 451 00:34:19.920 --> 00:34:23.159 so they produce the blocks that are then validated by the poke network the Polka 452 00:34:23.159 --> 00:34:30.599 Dot validators, and then the collators themselves bond bond steak in the form of 453 00:34:30.639 --> 00:34:36.320 Glimmer as well to be part of the active set of colators, so that 454 00:34:36.320 --> 00:34:42.840 that can earn Glimmer as a reward, so there's inflation, which you know, 455 00:34:43.079 --> 00:34:46.199 the emissions go to the people delegating their steak as well as the co 456 00:34:46.320 --> 00:34:52.920 leators that are running the nodes. Glimmers also used it for I mentioned our 457 00:34:52.960 --> 00:35:00.519 governance. It is used in the governance process so tokenholders can vote on on 458 00:35:00.639 --> 00:35:06.000 governance proposals and you know, like I said, we use that for protocol 459 00:35:06.039 --> 00:35:12.840 upgrades, also to change chain parameters and to manage you know, opening up 460 00:35:13.519 --> 00:35:17.719 in the Pokedat ecosystem, even opening up a communication channel with other pair of 461 00:35:17.800 --> 00:35:22.599 chains that has to be enabled through governance, and so often another pair of 462 00:35:22.679 --> 00:35:27.239 chain who will want to connect to Moonbeam so that they can have their assets 463 00:35:27.519 --> 00:35:34.079 listed on the DEXes on Moonbeam or in the other marketplaces on Moonbeam, they 464 00:35:34.119 --> 00:35:37.440 will come to our governance and put in a proposal to have a channel opened. 465 00:35:37.480 --> 00:35:40.159 And then you know, and as I said, so Glimmer is used 466 00:35:40.159 --> 00:35:49.400 in the in the governance voting process as well. Now you mentioned there's going 467 00:35:49.440 --> 00:35:52.599 to be some big announcements coming up soon. I know you can't tell us 468 00:35:52.960 --> 00:35:55.719 the details yet, but is there anything else on your twenty twenty four row 469 00:35:55.760 --> 00:36:00.000 map you want to highlight? Yeah, I mean I think you know we 470 00:36:00.039 --> 00:36:07.679 are. We have some excited partnerships announced with like Glacis, which is a 471 00:36:07.679 --> 00:36:09.920 abstraction layer. It kind of sits on top of GMP protocol, so things 472 00:36:10.000 --> 00:36:16.400 like Wormhole, Axelar and so forth. So I think that's pretty interesting because 473 00:36:16.639 --> 00:36:22.519 it provides what what I like to think of is Web two reliability for for 474 00:36:22.639 --> 00:36:25.800 web free. So right now, if you if you're making a cross chain 475 00:36:25.840 --> 00:36:30.360 application, or let's say you know you're bridging stuff from one network to another 476 00:36:30.400 --> 00:36:35.920 as part of your application, you're probably adapt developers are currently relying on one 477 00:36:36.039 --> 00:36:40.239 GMP protocol like wormhole, and if they say there's an issue with it right 478 00:36:40.360 --> 00:36:45.440 then maybe it's you know, the route isn't working right now, Well you're 479 00:36:45.519 --> 00:36:50.039 kind of stuck, right or let's say you know, god forbid it gets 480 00:36:50.039 --> 00:36:52.920 hacked or something like that, right then you have a serious problem. So 481 00:36:53.239 --> 00:36:55.880 you may want to have redundancy. And you know, just going back to 482 00:36:55.920 --> 00:36:59.920 my like you know web two days, I mean we had a global net 483 00:37:00.119 --> 00:37:06.880 work with redundant connections with different providers so that you know, if traffic couldn't 484 00:37:07.000 --> 00:37:08.679 couldn't flow on one, you know, we could we just route it through 485 00:37:08.719 --> 00:37:13.320 another one. And so Glacens provides this layer to be able to do that 486 00:37:13.400 --> 00:37:16.039 to provide redundancy or also even let's say you want to have a higher degree 487 00:37:16.039 --> 00:37:20.119 of security. It might be more costly, but you might have a message 488 00:37:20.119 --> 00:37:23.320 that has to go over two different routes and and agree on the on the 489 00:37:23.360 --> 00:37:28.039 target chain before you accept the transactions. So then that way, you know, 490 00:37:28.079 --> 00:37:30.639 if there's if something's going wrong on one, you know you can you 491 00:37:30.639 --> 00:37:37.280 know, you can avoid you know, potentially catastrophic out outcomes. Cancy is 492 00:37:37.320 --> 00:37:44.239 another one another partnership. So they're very app chain infrastructure team, and they're 493 00:37:44.239 --> 00:37:51.159 also deployed in pokont and Moonbeam is connecting with them to provide kind of liquidity 494 00:37:52.760 --> 00:37:57.880 and access to sort of our our defive venues, uh and other other sort 495 00:37:57.920 --> 00:38:00.599 of infrastructure that then app As I mentioned earlier, it doesn't make sense to 496 00:38:00.719 --> 00:38:05.400 kind of reinvent everything every time, so these app chains can focus on what 497 00:38:05.480 --> 00:38:09.760 they do best and then they can leverage the all the infrastructure that you know, 498 00:38:09.800 --> 00:38:16.840 we've brought to Moonbeam. I think I mentioned the the zkof project already, 499 00:38:17.199 --> 00:38:24.480 but those along with some of the other account abstraction technology that we're investing 500 00:38:24.519 --> 00:38:29.159 in, I think is pretty exciting because you know, as I said, 501 00:38:29.239 --> 00:38:38.239 I think it can really streamline or really improve the user experience when when using 502 00:38:38.280 --> 00:38:44.719 Web three applications. And so there's gonna be a lot of focus in that 503 00:38:44.840 --> 00:38:50.719 area. But just generally, we're also just doing a lot to continually improve 504 00:38:51.480 --> 00:38:57.920 tooling and infrastructure and frameworks and so forth that are available to adapt developers so 505 00:38:57.960 --> 00:39:01.840 they can get going more quickly. Uh and uh, you know, build 506 00:39:01.920 --> 00:39:07.239 faster and again and focus on what they do best. Hmm. That's exciting 507 00:39:07.599 --> 00:39:15.079 and I'm excited for those upcoming updates announcements. Let's talk about the crypto market 508 00:39:15.159 --> 00:39:19.000 at large. Uh, we've seen incredible growth, you know, with the 509 00:39:19.039 --> 00:39:22.639 bigcoin, et apps, crypto regulations seem to be moving forward. What were 510 00:39:22.679 --> 00:39:28.199 your thoughts on the ETF launch and the performance so far. Yeah, I 511 00:39:28.239 --> 00:39:30.920 mean, I you know, to be honest, I haven't been paying super 512 00:39:30.920 --> 00:39:35.239 close attention to the performance so far. But I was surprised. I mean, 513 00:39:35.280 --> 00:39:37.760 I don't know where I like, things changed so quickly, Like I 514 00:39:37.920 --> 00:39:38.880 you know, it was like, oh, it's not happening, it's not 515 00:39:38.880 --> 00:39:42.559 going to be approved. And then I was talking to someone They're like, 516 00:39:42.559 --> 00:39:44.159 no, no, it's going to be approved. And I'm like, you're 517 00:39:44.239 --> 00:39:45.920 dreaming. What are you talking about it? I guess I missed something and 518 00:39:45.920 --> 00:39:49.519 all of a sudden it was approved. It's just just kind of shocking. 519 00:39:49.599 --> 00:39:53.920 And I think there's been a lot of speculation around is this for political reasons 520 00:39:54.119 --> 00:40:00.480 or but I think and then you know, there was recently the uh, 521 00:40:00.639 --> 00:40:04.840 you know, we found out that the SEC is sort of dropping its case 522 00:40:04.880 --> 00:40:09.599 against consensus. You know, I think for that, I think the SEC 523 00:40:09.760 --> 00:40:14.920 just probably realized that they didn't want another embarrassment of sort of losing a case. 524 00:40:15.639 --> 00:40:19.760 But yeah, really was surprised, taken by surprise. I mean you 525 00:40:19.800 --> 00:40:22.559 would think like that they could put it off. I figured they would. 526 00:40:22.639 --> 00:40:27.480 I figured the SEC would just try to punt as long as they could to 527 00:40:27.559 --> 00:40:30.360 try to try to defer. But like I said, I haven't really been 528 00:40:30.360 --> 00:40:34.760 paying a ton of attention to the inflows. I mean, obviously the market 529 00:40:34.800 --> 00:40:38.559 hasn't been great as of late for a number of reasons, macro reasons, 530 00:40:38.599 --> 00:40:43.559 I think, And you know, now we're headed into summer, so it'll 531 00:40:43.599 --> 00:40:49.639 be interesting to see. I don't know if Ethereum has the same brand awareness 532 00:40:50.360 --> 00:40:57.000 with more traditional investors that you know, like like I think most traditional investors 533 00:40:57.039 --> 00:41:00.000 are aware of bitcoin and that was probably, you know, huge excitement for 534 00:41:00.039 --> 00:41:07.079 them. But so yeah, that'll be interesting to watch it play out for 535 00:41:07.159 --> 00:41:09.639 sure. Yeah, it's it's pretty crazy. And I'm saying, I know 536 00:41:09.679 --> 00:41:14.960 you're in Canada, so I don't I don't know how much you're keeping up 537 00:41:14.960 --> 00:41:16.480 with what's happening in the US. But also there's been like a one to 538 00:41:16.480 --> 00:41:23.679 eighty from many Democrats who were aligned with Elizabeth Warren against crypto, and many 539 00:41:23.719 --> 00:41:28.079 Democrats are now working with Republicans to get bills through the House, which will 540 00:41:28.119 --> 00:41:31.079 provide clarity. You know, you mentioned earlier that regulations are needed that that 541 00:41:31.119 --> 00:41:36.679 are balanced, you know, protect consumers but allow innovation. You know, 542 00:41:36.719 --> 00:41:39.719 how's Canada looking. I know you guys have had spot ets for a while, 543 00:41:40.000 --> 00:41:44.159 but you know, regulation wise, do you feel you have the clarity 544 00:41:44.239 --> 00:41:46.920 there? I think it's coming, I think, and and you know, 545 00:41:47.000 --> 00:41:51.480 I do pay very close attention to kind of what's going on in the US 546 00:41:51.519 --> 00:41:55.960 for sure. Yeah, we have had spot ets for quite some time, 547 00:41:57.840 --> 00:42:02.679 and I think think clarity is coming. I think Canada tends to be it 548 00:42:02.719 --> 00:42:07.519 has to watch sort of a fine line. I think they've been more progressive, 549 00:42:08.679 --> 00:42:14.360 but at the same time, we all want to be too out of 550 00:42:14.400 --> 00:42:16.199 alignment with what's going on in the US. I mean, the US being 551 00:42:16.320 --> 00:42:22.440 like, you know, the massive trading partner for Canada is very important, 552 00:42:22.440 --> 00:42:27.119 and so they don't you know, they don't want to really rock the boat. 553 00:42:27.159 --> 00:42:30.079 I think too badly either. But you know, I think there is 554 00:42:31.559 --> 00:42:37.199 There hasn't been any kind of enforcement. I think they're just sort of a 555 00:42:37.239 --> 00:42:40.360 little bit taking await and see approach. Like I don't think there's been really 556 00:42:40.400 --> 00:42:46.280 progressive, a really progressive approach like we've seen in Europe, which I think 557 00:42:46.360 --> 00:42:50.320 is just you know, I think what they're trying to do in Europe, 558 00:42:50.320 --> 00:42:55.280 I think is is really great because they're sort of leading the way. It's 559 00:42:55.360 --> 00:42:59.519 kind of not awesome from the US perspective, and I think it's a real 560 00:43:00.039 --> 00:43:04.000 missed opportunity. I think Europe realizes that, you know, they missed the 561 00:43:04.039 --> 00:43:07.760 boat kind of like with with the Internet and uh, you know, back 562 00:43:07.760 --> 00:43:13.199 in the sort of early two thousands, and as a result, you know, 563 00:43:13.360 --> 00:43:16.199 all the huge technology companies are based in the United States. So I 564 00:43:16.199 --> 00:43:23.119 think they see an opportunity with the US not really making strong moves to to 565 00:43:23.199 --> 00:43:29.280 take advantage of that and and move a lot of the innovation and perhaps some 566 00:43:29.360 --> 00:43:32.760 of the move the balance of power potentially with Web three over there. But 567 00:43:32.840 --> 00:43:36.159 I do think we're starting to see some signs, like you said, this 568 00:43:36.519 --> 00:43:39.039 the buy when you see these bipartisan bills, and I think it's pretty disappointing 569 00:43:39.079 --> 00:43:47.280 that, you know, Joe Biden like vetoed what was a bipartisan effort, 570 00:43:47.400 --> 00:43:52.840 you know, I mean with Congress can't seem to get anything done right, 571 00:43:52.880 --> 00:43:55.480 and so you know, you've got this thing where you actually have both parties 572 00:43:55.480 --> 00:44:00.480 coming together to get something done. Like I don't know, I was you 573 00:44:00.559 --> 00:44:05.360 know, I found that kind of kind of disappointing, But you know, 574 00:44:05.360 --> 00:44:07.159 I guess we'll see. I think there's a there's a lot of open questions. 575 00:44:07.199 --> 00:44:10.519 I'm glad. It does seem like people are finally engaging. And I 576 00:44:10.559 --> 00:44:15.840 don't know how much of that is politically motivated, just from you know, 577 00:44:15.159 --> 00:44:22.639 sort of Trump's recent announcement that he embraces crypto and maybe maybe the maybe the 578 00:44:22.679 --> 00:44:25.400 Democrats feeling like they need to you know, there's some portion of the vote 579 00:44:25.440 --> 00:44:31.800 that could could make the difference in certain jurisdictions. But anyway, regardless, 580 00:44:32.360 --> 00:44:37.079 it's great to see some progress being made. Yeah, it's fascinating because I 581 00:44:37.119 --> 00:44:39.920 don't think anybody saw these coming, and you know, you have a presidential 582 00:44:40.000 --> 00:44:45.760 candidate talking about crypto and but I guess the reason that Donald Trump made that 583 00:44:45.840 --> 00:44:52.199 move is is just the binding and administration under Elizabeth Warren's guidance was so on 584 00:44:52.239 --> 00:44:54.960 the other side of the spectrum, like they weren't even neutral. It's just 585 00:44:54.960 --> 00:44:59.760 like I'm building an anti crypto army, Like why it's just a technology. 586 00:45:00.519 --> 00:45:04.679 They were so crazy about it, so it almost forces the other side and 587 00:45:04.719 --> 00:45:07.480 say, oh, okay, you're negative about it, I'm going to be 588 00:45:07.519 --> 00:45:09.440 positive about it. Right. It's look, the game of politics has been 589 00:45:09.440 --> 00:45:15.559 played out here, but it's so fascinating that out of nowhere this wind of 590 00:45:16.000 --> 00:45:20.360 crypto and the politics just started picking up, right, Yeah. And you 591 00:45:20.400 --> 00:45:22.920 know, it's really too bad because I think, like with Elizabeth Warren and 592 00:45:22.920 --> 00:45:27.639 the school are so anti crypto. I think there's just a lack of understanding, 593 00:45:27.760 --> 00:45:32.400 right, I think that, you know, I think I don't know, 594 00:45:32.400 --> 00:45:35.400 at least in my mind. I think what a lot of crypto is 595 00:45:35.440 --> 00:45:38.480 about is like sort of fair access to markets. You know, I think 596 00:45:38.519 --> 00:45:43.280 a lot of this should change. I mean, there's there's so many in 597 00:45:43.320 --> 00:45:46.440 traditional finance, you know. I mean we talked about MTV and front running 598 00:45:46.440 --> 00:45:52.079 and stuff. I mean there's like whole industries like built around front running retail 599 00:45:52.119 --> 00:45:58.719 investors in traditional finance, right, and you know, it's really a minority, 600 00:45:59.000 --> 00:46:00.000 like you know when you look at the you know, on the on 601 00:46:00.039 --> 00:46:05.760 the blockchain side. I mean, it's so rigged in the traditional finance toward 602 00:46:05.920 --> 00:46:08.840 the people who have like have direct access, and there a lot of a 603 00:46:08.840 --> 00:46:14.079 lot of instruments, financial instruments that you know, as a retail investor, 604 00:46:14.119 --> 00:46:16.519 you can't get access to. And I think crypto has the promise to kind 605 00:46:16.519 --> 00:46:22.119 of open up those markets. And so really it should be something that, 606 00:46:22.559 --> 00:46:25.039 at least in my mind, that like Democrats should be championing for. I 607 00:46:25.079 --> 00:46:29.480 think, you know, just like I was saying before, it's important to 608 00:46:29.480 --> 00:46:32.480 have clear regulation to protect investors. I mean, I think, you know, 609 00:46:32.599 --> 00:46:37.320 scams exist in any industry. I think unfortunately we get you know, 610 00:46:37.800 --> 00:46:39.880 we're a big target right now, but it's wherever the money is, Like, 611 00:46:39.920 --> 00:46:44.559 there's going to be scams, right and if you don't have good regulation 612 00:46:44.679 --> 00:46:51.320 that fosters innovation, but also ensuring that there are good players in the industry 613 00:46:51.360 --> 00:46:53.280 that are sort of following the rules. I mean, if you have those 614 00:46:53.320 --> 00:46:59.840 standards, then you're going to see less fraud and scams and so forth. 615 00:47:00.039 --> 00:47:04.280 So that's the best way forward. And I wonder if part of it is 616 00:47:04.719 --> 00:47:09.599 I think I've heard Elizabeth Warren talk about this, it's almost like, you 617 00:47:09.639 --> 00:47:14.400 know, they don't have full control or understanding this lack of knowledge, but 618 00:47:14.440 --> 00:47:17.239 also this is kind of a blind spot for them, and they are in 619 00:47:17.239 --> 00:47:22.360 addition to world other governments around the world building CBDCs. Right, they want 620 00:47:22.400 --> 00:47:28.440 to take a fiat currency and put it on the blockchain. And I wonder 621 00:47:28.440 --> 00:47:31.679 if part of it is just try to slow this industry down so that they 622 00:47:31.679 --> 00:47:37.519 can get some control over it, maybe via the money supply. Maybe because 623 00:47:37.519 --> 00:47:44.039 they're worried that people are leaving how should I put it, They're leaving the 624 00:47:44.079 --> 00:47:46.880 normal rails, payment rails and so forth and going to stable coins and going 625 00:47:46.920 --> 00:47:50.800 to I can send you some bitcoin right now. I don't have to send 626 00:47:50.840 --> 00:47:54.320 you usd or a Canadian right. You think part of it is that, 627 00:47:54.480 --> 00:48:00.039 and maybe I mean, look, I do think that there is some probably 628 00:48:01.159 --> 00:48:06.159 you know, well founded concern that like even even if like a ton of 629 00:48:06.320 --> 00:48:12.320 US dollars get digitized, that that could there could be some swan event that 630 00:48:12.480 --> 00:48:16.079 like completely rocks the US dollar. I mean, that's something that people need 631 00:48:16.119 --> 00:48:20.960 to look take a close look at. And I think their right to kind 632 00:48:21.000 --> 00:48:24.639 of do that analysis and maybe say, oh, slow down a little bit. 633 00:48:24.679 --> 00:48:29.239 But personally, I don't think cdbc's are the way I mean, I 634 00:48:29.239 --> 00:48:36.039 think you know, there's there's obviously, you know, uh, concerns around 635 00:48:36.039 --> 00:48:44.239 surveillance and yeah, and privacy and so forth, and so I think I 636 00:48:44.239 --> 00:48:47.079 think, you know, the weight that I look at it is more like 637 00:48:49.280 --> 00:48:54.039 banks, for example, are not governance government agencies, and so if you 638 00:48:54.119 --> 00:49:02.320 think about it more like I think we'll probably see branded stable coin instruments that 639 00:49:02.360 --> 00:49:07.159 are used for commerce, and so they're sort of they're the issuers, they're 640 00:49:07.159 --> 00:49:13.519 holding the dollars. But then we can programmatically, we can use like software 641 00:49:13.800 --> 00:49:16.280 to like make these systems more efficient, to do cross border settlement and so 642 00:49:16.360 --> 00:49:22.800 forth with these branded ones, and they'll probably be some you know, larger 643 00:49:22.800 --> 00:49:24.960 players like you know, Circle I think is well positioned, but I think 644 00:49:25.000 --> 00:49:29.920 we'll probably see some of these, like you know, maybe the JP Morgan's 645 00:49:29.920 --> 00:49:37.800 of the world or Golden or or large banks even get into issuance and using 646 00:49:37.840 --> 00:49:40.280 that. And I think that's the way and because people you kind of need 647 00:49:40.320 --> 00:49:45.320 to you know, steparate those things, like there's the actual like money itself, 648 00:49:45.320 --> 00:49:49.320 and then there's the digitized versions, and then there's people that are sort 649 00:49:49.360 --> 00:49:54.519 of managing that. And I think that creates a better separation of powers so 650 00:49:54.559 --> 00:50:00.440 you can get the benefits of it without putting it all the control with with 651 00:50:00.639 --> 00:50:06.239 the government. Yeah, all right, and I got some wrap up questions 652 00:50:06.239 --> 00:50:08.119 here for you. First, if you could create your own metaverse, what 653 00:50:08.119 --> 00:50:12.039 would the theme be? Well, I mean, you can see I'm a 654 00:50:12.039 --> 00:50:15.400 big Star Wars fan, but I don't know, I'd probably get in trouble 655 00:50:15.400 --> 00:50:17.960 with Disney, you know. So, but I do some sort of sci 656 00:50:19.000 --> 00:50:22.639 fi space theme. You know, I'm a big fan of like also the 657 00:50:22.679 --> 00:50:27.159 Expanse Universe. I don't I don't know if you're familiar with that one, 658 00:50:27.199 --> 00:50:31.519 but yeah, you know, a space sci fi based theme for sure. 659 00:50:32.440 --> 00:50:37.440 Yeah, I'm same thing. I love space and the idea of space exploration 660 00:50:37.480 --> 00:50:42.679 that I love Star Wars, so that would be mine as well. Rapid 661 00:50:42.719 --> 00:50:49.880 Fire favorite food. I gotta go with fro Speed. Favorite musician or band. 662 00:50:52.079 --> 00:50:55.199 I guess all time? You two favorite movie? I think I might 663 00:50:55.199 --> 00:51:00.599 know the answer. Oh well, actually might surprise you too to pin down 664 00:51:00.599 --> 00:51:04.920 a one star Wars So, actually, Shah The Shoshank Redemption is my favorite 665 00:51:04.960 --> 00:51:13.320 movie. It's a great movie. Favorite vote tough one. I'm gonna go 666 00:51:13.400 --> 00:51:15.760 with a classic, The Count of Monte Cristo. I read it a long 667 00:51:15.800 --> 00:51:20.880 time ago and just really stayed with me. It's one of those classics. 668 00:51:21.440 --> 00:51:23.920 Nice and uh I also I think I may know the answer to this as 669 00:51:23.960 --> 00:51:29.719 well. But what's your hobby outside of work? Well, again, I 670 00:51:29.840 --> 00:51:31.880 might surprise you. I'm snowboarding. You know, living in Canada, you 671 00:51:31.880 --> 00:51:36.599 got to find something to do in the winter, for sure. Aaron pleasure 672 00:51:36.639 --> 00:51:38.960 chatting with you man, and I'm excited for the updates coming up from Moonbeam. 673 00:51:39.000 --> 00:51:42.840 Thank you so much for joining me, No, thank you so much 674 00:51:42.840 --> 00:51:44.519 for having me. It was it was a real pleasure.