Hello, and welcome to the show. I'm Martin Willis your host, and
we have a good show for you this evening. We have Peter Robbins coming
up. It's going to be talking about a lot of interesting topics. And
we also have Alejandro Rojas coming up, but only for a minute. There's
some audio issues we try to work out. So I want to thank everyone
that supports a show. Anyone can do that at two dollars more a month.
All that information is on podcast ufo dot com Again. We are moving
to Tuesday on June fifth, Tuesday nights from then on out, and that's
six to eight pm Eastern Standard time. Nothing will change for the podcast listener
except you'll get your podcast a day early. That's the only thing. All
right, So we're ready to begin. Alejandro, what's going on? How
are you? You can hear me right all on? Good? Sorry,
you keep coming in and out kind of like you're on another planet or something,
but you probably are. I am, yeah, but uh but anyway,
yeah, just winning it man to go ahead and tell us what's going
on in the UFO world. Okay, some cool things. So a couple
of things. First of all, just my own personal news. The other
day I got to interview Peggy Whitson. Now she is an astronaut, who
she is the one we had we're talking about who has logged the most kind
of space her when it comes to yeah, when it comes to us astronauts,
So six hundred and fifty five days, I think, And then her
longest sting out there was three hundred days or two hundred and eighty nine actually,
so just short of Scott Kelly's who was there, you know, a
little bit longer than that. So yeah, so it was a lot of
fun. Of course, I asked her about a lot of stuff. You'll
be able to read about it at Den of Geek even this week. But
I did ask her about UFOs, and I tweeted about it and Facebook so
you guys could see it. But essentially what she said is she doesn't know
much about UFOs, but that the there's a lot out there and it's a
big universe, and she doesn't think anything's not possible, so she's open to
the idea, which was kind of interesting, but that was about all she
had to say about that. Now all hundred did she talk about any ill
effects from being a space so long? She did? We did talk a
little bit about that, and I can't remember the details right now, but
that will be in a story that I'll have coming out probably next week at
Den of Geek. So we talked about Scott Kelly a bit and some of
the bad effects that he had, But she essentially talked about one of the
things that she talked about that that they're working on that they don't have a
solution for yet is bone density. So I guess your bone density can return,
but your bone quality cannot, So you do have some sort of deterioration
of your bone. But she is hopeful that and they're working on perhaps different
drugs or things that can be taken that will help keep that from being an
issue. So that was one issue that, yeah, I was not aware
of that she brought up with me as an example of what she feels is
one of the kind of their major hurdles for a long time, you know,
human spending a long time in space. But that it's something she's confident
that will get I'm gonna hang up on you and try you back see if
I can make that work. By the way, I'm going out to Chicago
UM tomorrow UM for over the Memorial Day weekend. Hope to see my good
friend Sam Moronto out there. He's probably going to be stopping by. We'll
see. Looks like we're having a skype problem with Alejandro, and I believe
Peter, how are you? I'm fine? Thanks? Where I think it's
Alejandro's end on skype because he's not even answering you. Hear me clearly?
Don't you just fine? Are we going to get through this? Peter,
Yes, we are. Martin, Yeah, all right, So I apologize
to the listener. We're not sure what happened to Alejandro. Um, we're
back with Peter and Peter Robbins. Um we met up in Maine. Boy,
I'm telling you like five six years ago something like that. That's right,
and we've kind of been staying in touch. Well, we've been staying
in touch ever since, through good and bad, even when you were in
Russia. That's right. Yeah, And it's been a while since you've been
on the show. I'm really glad to have you back. I'm glad to
be back Martin. Yeah. And so Peter, for the person who has
not heard you before, can you give them the background story? And I
want you to tell you've told it before on this show. You had a
sighting very young, and if I remember correctly, you forgot about it.
Is that right? I worked very hard to forget about it at the age
of fourteen. Yes, essentially, it involved myself and my sister Helen.
We were playing outside of the house that we grew up in in a very
lovely village about thirty miles east of Manhattan, where I was born in New
York City, but my parents moved us out to the suburbs. And it
was just a beautiful late morning in June in the early sixties. We were
two kids goofing around clear blue sky and one of those times in a small
town where there's absolutely nothing going on, no cars going by, no ice
cream truck, no other kids playing. We were just six feet to the
left of me, and I caught vision immediately called her attention to it as
five silvery white disc shaped objects, not round but oval, like if you
take a dinner plate and you tip it and it becomes like an ellipse.
They were in a very precise V type formation. They were not shiny like
stainless steel, more like you know, subdued. We could clearly make out
regular detailing around the perimeter of each one. That was the way that,
at an appreciable different distance you might read windows on a conventional airliner. And
I it was a particularly innocent time, and I was a particularly innocent kid.
For those that are old enough to remember, leave it to beaver.
That was about my speed. I was a mega nerd. I collected stamps,
bugs, I read a lot, I wasn't into sports, and obviously
it was more innocent time. My only thoughts up until that moment about flying
saucers was that they were real in the movies I would sometimes see on a
Saturday afternoon with some of my geeky little buddies, and I saw some great
black and white bee movies back then. But I guess I intuited the adult
message about them that they didn't really exist, but there they were, and
there was no ambiguity. They were round, they had no appendages, and
I went through an immediate reaction that I've since chronicled with I'm sure several hundred
people over the decades, that I've come to call the checklist reaction. You
look up in the sky and you see a thing or things, and you
immediately rattled through in your brain everything they're not airplanes, kites, helicopters,
blimps, balloons, birds, flotsam and jets, reflections from the ground,
strange shaped clouds, and I kind of hit the wall. I experienced a
moment of loneliness that was incredibly deep, and with it came the realization that
if they were real, and the adult world said they most certainly were not,
then everything I thought I knew might be open to question. I was
in adolescence, being run by my hormones, wanting more than anything to be
taller, to have better hair, to have cooler clothes, to not be
wearing glasses, and most of all, to have a girlfriend. And I
thought, very seriously, if I ever talked about this, word will get
out, people will make fun of me, and that part of my life
will never happen. And I'm not really joking. I started to run into
the house to tell my mother I was knocked out or passed out. I
got up, went into the house, walked up the stairs on an intuition
that my sister would be there. She was in her bedroom with her back
to me, looking out the back window. I thought private moment. I
went into the kitchen, where my mom was making us lunch. And I
told her, and I didn't remember it because I again put it out of
my mind for more than fourteen years. I joke with people and say,
if I had other repressed memories in childhood, I don't remember them, but
this was the one, and once I should jump ahead for a moment and
say once the memory did come back, and I more than confirmed it with
my sister. Over the next few years, voluntarily and with great curiosity,
underwent hypnotic regression with the hypnotist that I knew, ultimately with Bud Hopkins,
one of my mentors and a dear friend who I worked for for many years
as his assistant, and another mentor, a tough, no nonsense New York
City Police detective who had been trained in hypnotic regression for criminal investigation but was
also a crack UFO researcher. And the words that I said to my mother
were, Mom, Helen, and I just saw some things in the sky
that looked like flying saucers from the movies. I should say here that my
mother, although she did not remember this, many years later, when Helen
and I sat down with her and my dad to talk to them about this,
she made an extraordinarily wise decision. She looked at me seriously and didn't
say anything, and I thought to myself, this is the way grown ups
look at each other. I have interviewed more people than I can remember who
as adults, reflect back on when my kid came to me and said something
like that, My reaction was, oh, honey, you just thought it
looked like that, or a child who has grown up reflecting on My parents
put me down, you know, either because they couldn't handle it or they
didn't believe me. But my sister later that afternoon said do you want to
talk about this? And I said no, And within a matter of weeks
I had, however, we do these things, Martin, not even convinced
myself that it didn't happen. I forgot about it, and absolutely nothing rattled
it loose until fourteen and a half years later, when that memory came roaring
back in an undeniable fashion, and I was compelled to telephone my sister after
thinking through what I would say, and had at least the foresight to say,
I've remembered something from childhood and I need to know what you remember.
But I feel if I tell you what I remember, I'll never know you'll
say yes or no, and I'll never know in my heart if you really
had the same memory. And I decided to set the scene the weather where
we were standing in relationship to each other on the front lawn, the time
of year it was, and she stopped me mid sent since it stop,
I know what you're talking about. Confirmed the memory, except she wasn't sure
whether it was five or six, which we very quickly worked out the next
day, because that afternoon I did a painting of six of them so that
I could hold my hand over one when I showed it to her the next
day, and she realized it was five because it was a very precise balanced
V, so it have had to have been an odd number. And then
she said something to me that changed my life forever, which was, but
there's more, and I don't know if you're going to like it, and
went on to describe what now. I would say, I've heard variations on
very close variations on not dozens, but I'm sure several hundred times over the
decades of memories of somebody being taken and a board a craft. This was
more than forty years ago that we had this discussion, and the term gray
was not being used, but she described archetypical grays accompanying her a tall one,
then being on a table being examined. And my career that I had
dreamt of since I was young, of being an artist in New York City,
began to lose meaning to me immediately, and I resented the hell out
of it. That was all I wanted to be and I was in the
process of beginning to live that dream. But something obsessed me from that point
on was more important, and it was this subject and this work, And
here we are talking about it all these years later, Peter, when you
said it came rushing back to you. What triggered that, What in particular
made that happen. Yeah, that's a very important question. I think a
combination of things. As a painter was teaching painting at my alma mater at
the time, the School of Visual Arts, figure drawing and painting and general
painting, and as is part of your job as an instructor, you hire
models, often figure models, and I hadn't a figure model that I had
really fallen head over heels for and asked her out after we were done with
our three weeks of work. It would be very inappropriate to do so before
she told me that she had a boyfriend. But I think, kind of
feeling a little sorry for me, said, but I did something recently that
I really got a lot out of. It was called est. I had
never heard of this or Human Potential Workshop, but I thought, whatever it
is, I'll do it, and who knows, maybe she'll come around.
She did not, But I had done it some weeks before and was kind
of opened up in a way that I hadn't been. Also, this would
have been in February of nineteen seventy five. I lived down in New York's
Chinatown, in off the beaten tourist strip area more working class Chinese, and
in the old days before Mayor Giuliani band fireworks or officially cracked down on it,
they looked the other way up until then. It's a five thousand year
plus part of the tradition of Chinese New Year. You don't sleep much.
It was forty eight hours of explosions and smelling cordite. Also, a former
girlfriend of mine who I remained friends with, had done an extraordinary thing for
me. My grandmother had saved several dozen drawings I did from the age of
about six up until about fourteen, the time that this had happened, and
gave them back to me and Peggy, who did layout paste up work,
and in the old days it was on ascetate. Said I've got a lot
of acetate from my last job. Let me take those drawings and in case
them a acetate with electrical tape so they won't break up. Some of them
are on minimal of paper and fairly fragile. And I was going through those
drawings that afternoon. Again, nothing with the subject matter, but the time
frame I think most important of all. My mind was just ready to deal
with this memory. So it's nothing really in particular that jarred it other than
going through what you were seeing, going through a period of time where you
were doing drawings, and then you look at the drawings again and that brought
you back to that time frame, and that's what made you that triggered the
memory. Am I getting You didn't come through very clearly on that last part.
Say it again. So you're saying that that's kind of exploring your past?
Is how that kind of triggered that? Well, again, I think
I think I'm making just an educated guest here that it was a combination of
things. Having done a workshop that I didn't sleep much through a lot of
ideas being presented to me. A little sleep deprived over that previous days because
of the Chinese New Year, looking at drawings that I had done from that
period, and again most important, I think my mind was just ready to
deal with it and the memory came roaring back. I see wow. And
so it's funny how you're not the first person that's told me that they've pushed
the memory away. There's so many people have said that. I'm sure you've
talked to a number of people that have done the same thing, indeed,
And I think that's up. When there's any like major trauma in someone's life,
you can either do that or not. And oh yeah, it happens
regularly with much more and very magic conventional traumas the death of the loved parent,
abuse, psychological or sexual, any number of things that one would naturally
want to put out of your mind as a young person. I've heard the
saying if you push it down and'll come out sideways. So and that's for
about anything. So, so time goes on. You work with Bud.
We did have a question come in from the chat. I'm sorry, not
from the chat from an email earlier, who actually wanted you to talk a
little bit about working with Bud. And Bud Hopkins interesting man, great man.
And I still I follow his artwork. I really like his abstract work.
Um, I see it come up at auction all the time. Yeah.
And uh, But anyway, I know you're really really close friends with
him, and he was a real law to the community when he when he
passed away. But someone wanted to know what your more interesting moments were working
with him. Well, there were many, the memory returned in nineteen seventy
five. But and I met in nineteen seventy six when he published his very
first article on his very first UFO investigation, which I read. Was extremely
impressed with his methodical following through on this case, with the fact that he
was a wonderful writer. The New York art world is fairly small, and
I knew there was a late period abstract expressionist by that same name and same
spelling whose work I've seen in a group show a few years before. And
I found him in the phone book and I called him, introduced myself as
a fellow artist with an interest in this subject. We met for coffee a
few days later and sat at his kitchen table down in the Chelsea District in
New York talked about art, life and UFOs, not without some irony the
title of his wonderful memoir last book that he wrote, and I had no
idea it'd be the first of hundreds and hundreds of such talks at that table
over the next decades. This was still five years before he published his very
first UFO book, Missing Time, which really was a game changer, exploring
the abduction phenomena, which overall was the last thing that most ufologists wanted to
be associated with at the time. The ridicule factor of just being an adult
who studied UFOs was rough enough without discussing or focusing on the occupants. And
after that book came out as a painter, his life changed considerably and he
became quite well known in the field of UFO studies. But in nineteen and
I began to work for him part time as people began to write to him.
I also it accelerated after nineteen eighty seven with the publication of his true
international bestseller Intruders, the story of a young woman who lived in Cocomo,
Indiana, who had lifelong experiences and focusing in on a very particular aspect of
it. She is still a dear friend and I still stay in contact with
her. I responded over those decades to several thousand letters from people around the
world, around the country, always with a handwritten note, but insisted on
that and ultimately began to assist him in investigations besides filing and sitting in as
a witness on regressive hypnotic sessions that he had been very well trained to conduct.
But as to you're the question, if there was one case that was
the most compelling, the most memorable, the one that I was most involved
in. That began in nineteen eighty nine with a letter from a woman named
Linda who lived in Lower Manhattan, and it was not actually until around Thanksgiving
that she came in to actually sit down and meet with Bud. The case
was the most extraordinary one I've ever studied, I've ever been involved in.
I've ever seen so much credible information round and it became known as the Brooklyn
Bridge UFO case. Wow, and I know exactly when you're talking about.
Yeah, I'd love to you to go into detail in that case if you
would. Yeah, Well, the most the event that sent us into a
life changing investigation, and it lasted six years. The book Witnessed The True
Story of the Brooklyn Bidge Ufo Abductions was published in nineteen ninety six and Linda,
as is the case with people who have these experiences, became aware one
night that she was levitating above her bed in her nightgam and was then floated
through a solid glass window I believe twelve stories up with a number of small
beings taken into a craft which then took off. This is all happening within
very close proximity to the Brooklyn Bridge on the East River, and the craft
dived into the river. And then the story continued further out on a beach
on Long Island, and that was just the beginning of it. Linda remains
a very dear friend. We're back and forth sometimes several times a week.
She's a remarkable woman. And the thing that really got to me as a
very pragmatic investigator, and Bud was too, was Bud began to get letters
from people in different parts of Greater New York who had observed this. Now
it happened about two in the morning, but New York never sleeps and downtown.
There's a lot of businesses going on. The letters were all in different
handwritings, different postmarks. Most of them contain drawings. And as two trained
artists looking at drawings that were done with effort, with seriousness, with high
intention by so many different people, and seeing the same shapes, the same
color schemes, the same descriptions, the same shock of I thought they were
making a movie. Um, what happened? Mister Hopkins? Can you tell
us? I think it's one of the most important books and one of the
most challenging books that will ever exist in the abduction literature, And for anybody
who's a serious student of the subject or just interested in jumping in to an
extraordinarily well researched and investigated case, this is a must for your library.
Now, wasn't there someone, I want to say, like a witness,
there was something who I was born to secrecy for some time, who but
actually met with, and Linda certainly met with whom was at the time the
Secretary General of the United States of the United Nations, a reason that many
skeptics immediately dismissed the story. It can't be, therefore it isn't. Therefore
it's delusional or a lie or what have you. But indeed it was,
and he was downtown possibly on Alasania, two security people with an affair with
a woman or what have you. I don't know what he was doing there
at two in the morning, but the two security people became very involved in
the story as well, and one of them, once again, you can't
well, you can't make the stuff up, but nobody did. Here had
been brought together with Linda when they were children, and they remembered each other.
It's an incredibly emotional story and it's a good thing. Bud took a
full six years to back it up with the kind of evidence that you would
find in a capital case in a court of law. Again, the whole
of auction phenomena is so difficult to wrap our heads around. I have been
looking at it from different angles, and with Bud had the privilege of being
a bug on the wall at his shoulder, working directly with speaking directly with
so many individuals that had had this happen, speaking with family members, medical
and mental health professionals that had worked with these people, who at a certain
point through their hands up about any possible conventional, remotely conventional explanations governing this
phenomena, but it is real. It happens to more people than most of
us are comfortable even thinking about, and it continues to happen to them to
this day. Strange. So, so, after you know Bod's gone,
did you stay involved in any part of that aspect of this field or due
to just move on to your own now? Absolutely, I got involved because
it happened to my sister, and I realized that it was very important work
being a humanist and having the right temperament for this. Having worked for eight
years in New York City as a crisis intervention volunteer and shift supervisor on the
busiest suicide hotline in the United States, I am good working under stress with
people who are sometimes at their wits end. No, it just continued as
a threat in my life and it does to this day. Not a week
passes where I don't hear from somebody who knows that I will keep their confidence,
be a good listener, respect what they're saying, do my best if
possible, to refer them to an appropriate professional if there's one remotely in their
area, or reassure them that they are not crazy. And we lost Bud
in August of twenty eleven to cancer at the age of eighty, and no
day passes where I don't miss him right right. One thing I want to
make clear to the listener out there is when you say you're kindly working with
Bud and you're kindly helping people, you're not doing this for money or that's
the thing that people get confused about. A lot of people think that,
you know, you guys do this for the money or something like that.
And it's kind of a joke, isn't it. It is, and it
would be funny if it wasn't so insulting. However, in nineteen eighty nine,
Bud founded a nonprofit foundation called the Intruders Foundation. It had several mandates
to work with and assist people who had had these experiences, to support them
in every way possible, to have outreach program, bring speakers to New York
on the subject, and to do what we could to educate a broader part
of the public. This was all volunteer work. For me. I made
my living as a painting instructor, a painter and doing whatever. However,
there came a time a year or so later when a wealthy supporter whose name
I know, but I don't know if it's it's fair to say. Gave
some several thousand dollars to continue the work, and Bud said, congratulations,
you are now professional. I'm going to pay you eight dollars an hour.
So I did get paid eight dollars an hour. For almost a year,
that salary was up to ten dollars an hour, and I'm not hiding the
fact. And then we ran out of money. And for the rest of
his life, I continued on as a volunteer. Oh that's really funny.
Yeah, so I wasn't it for the money. Yeah, that's right,
that's right, And what I hope I'm not calling attention wrongly. But the
books behind you, are those anything to do with UFOs and research or is
that just other types of art books or something. No, most of the
books in my study here, and I am a bibliophile. I've loved books
since I was a kid. I collect books. But most of the books
in this room that I do my work in are related to the subject.
And let me just take a moment. This is for YouTube listeners, of
course. That is a big library. Wow, it's actually just a painted
backdrop to make me look Yeah, isn't that great? Wow, thanks for
showing us that. That's great. I started collecting UFO books in only about
five years ago, so I don't have much of a collection. I have
my house has libraries, though, several libraries. So one of the reasons
I think we get along as famously as we do. Yeah, right,
I wish more people regarded books as we did, and I wish more people
read I looked, right. I like the look of books too. I
like the look of like a nice leather bound book on a shelf. Yeah.
I think we're a little off topic. So so now what tell the
listening ardience if you would? How you then carried over and I want to
talk a little bit about left at Eastgate. So did I say that right?
Yeah? Yeah? So but how did you how did you progress?
How did things progress to get to that point where you started? You got
involved with Larry Warren and started on that venture. In nineteen eighty seven,
it was the fortieth anniversary of Roswell, the Kenneth Arnold Sightings, the fourtieth
anniversary the Modern Age of UFO Sightings, and the Mutual UFO Network mouf ON,
the largest UFO organization in the world. Based in this country had a
particularly memorable conference. It was held at American University in Washington, DC,
and I attended it with a friend, and among the speakers was this young
man who purported to be a witness to a case that first broke in this
country, well, first broke in England where it happened and around the world
simultaneously, of course, in late nineteen eighty three, and I had followed
the case ever since. It still stands as Great Britain's best known and I
think most significant UFO incident, and his talk was very compelling. We met,
I should say I wasn't a speaker there, but I was a panel
discussion about the abduction phenomena that was being chaired by doctor David Jacobs, a
historian from Temple University and a well known abduction researcher. And I was there
in a double spirit as the assistant A Bud Hopkins, and as somebody that
grew up with an abductee in the family. My future co author heard me
and decided I was the person he wanted to write a book with about his
incident, and we met in the hallway rather inadvertently on the Sunday. Decided
I decided I wanted to do an interview with him. I didn't know he
had any intention of writing a book, but I was twelve years into the
work at that point and starting to think about a more in depth project.
I had had articles published by that time, I certainly had spoken at conferences,
and I probably would have ended up writing a book, not surprisingly on
the abduction phenomena, possibly about working with Bud and the like. And he
came to my apartment the next weekend made his proposal. I took it at
face value, accepted, and we began to work on a book that took
us nine years until completion and was published in nineteen ninety seven. Yeah,
it did moderately well in this country. Rarely do UFO books really take off
here, but it did very well in the United Kingdom, and over the
next years I lectured on the subject, certainly with him on my own,
continued to research it, continued to return to the area. I was fascinated
by this particular incident and all of its permutations, and it was not until
a little over two years ago that his account started to unravel. I went
into some very serious denial about it. I rejected the possibility that I could
have been taken in by somebody who was telling me half truths, confabulations,
lies, as well as whatever of his account was true. But people started
to do their own investigations and started to write to me with increasing frustration,
until I began to look at this material, and, much to my embarrassment,
horror, sadness, I realized that at the least a good deal of
what he had told me that I had believed, that I had not double
checked on certain things that I had taken his word for, were unfortunately true,
and that he was in no way the person that I thought he was.
Beginning a period of time which certainly was the roughest I've ever had in
what I'll laughingly call my career in uphology, I have spent a good part
of the last year and a half making amends with as many of the people
who I ultimately wronged or cut off as friends or misled our readers about,
and in some respects I will probably never live it down, and that's the
way it is. I've been through worse in my life. But when it
all finally blew up early last year, I had to call it to the
attention of our publisher who republished this book in two thousand and five in an
expect and the edition. Alex Daki is his name. He's a lovely man.
He runs a company called Cosimo Books in New York City. We had
become good friends over the years, and it was with a lot of sadness
I had to tell him that he needed to conduct his own investigation and if
he had come, if he came to the same conclusions I had, that
this book needed to be removed from publication, which saddened me more than I
can say. I will always stand by the parts of the book that are
mine that were not influenced or working on information that I believed was real and
was not. And in fact, they began their own investigation last October.
They completed it in January, at which point a press release went out that
the book was going out of print. It will never be in print again.
Before that, I my own removed two follow up books that I wrote,
once again supporting my former co author's account. One a digital book that
was put online four hundred and fifty pages, most of which was just raw
documentation, and a follow up book that really was focused on defaming the deputy
based commander Charles I Halt, whose life I helped to make rather miserable for
more than twenty five years. I am glad to say he and I have
He has accepted my apologies. We have been in contact. I only wish
him the best. He knows how I feel about what has happened, and
life goes on. Wow, Peter, First of all, that is gracious
of you to apologize, and you know I've talked to what's gracious. It
was the only thing to do. I'm sorry to say many people are not
in the habit of mid admitting publicly that they have made extremely embarrassing error.
And that's a shame. It's partly a guy think, but that's not the
way I was brought up. It was the only decision to follow. Well,
you know, you were you were betrayed. You're only human. You
believed in someone and they betrayed you. And I'm really sorry for that.
And all those accounts that I've heard Charles Halt say, you know he never
remembers Larry being there. So let me try to get this straight. To
back up just a little bit. Do you believe that Larry just went by
all the hearsay when the people came, you know, the his fellow military
people were talking about the story behind the scenes. Do you think he just
picked up everything and then he went public with it? How did all that
come up about? How did he come up with his side of the false
story, so to speak? Well, that's something we could do quite a
number of shows in a row on. At this point, Martin, I
don't even know what to think about so much of what he put on the
record. By some accounts, he was out there, By others he was
not. The fact that he knew certain things does not necessarily mean that he
was involved in them. But I don't know. And as I wrote in
a very long polemic about this that anybody interested ken read by going to my
website Peter Robbins NY as in New York Peter Robbins ny dot com Front and
Center, you will have an opportunity to read a very long response piece that
I wrote on this and published last June. I have to leave this work,
and again I should doubly say here that this does not affect the reality
of the incident, which most certainly happened was extraordinarily significant, involved many credible
witnesses. First among them one of the witnesses on the first night, John
Burrows. There were three nights. Larry allegendies involved on the last night,
who continues, I think to lead this work and who spoke at a conference
in Woodbridge, England, the closest town to where these events happened, just
this past weekend, along with other pre eminent people involved in investigating the case.
I am burned out on it, and I feel I've lost and rightly
the right to participate in continuing research in this particular event, which at this
point is fine with me. I will always hope to return to that area.
I'm hoping too next year. Some of the dearest people in my life
live in the area. It is a fascinating part of England, only about
seventy miles from London. Anybody interested in the subject planning a visit there,
they are welcome to contact me through you. I will help them if I
can to connect up with some friends there who can take you to some of
the locations. It's an extraordinarily important event, and yes, I'm just not
part of it anymore, except in the respect that we're talking about. Yes,
So, Peter, when this was going on before you confronted Larry did
you have like a gut feeling like something was wrong for that you just tried
to push away for a while, And what actually made you say all of
a sudden say okay, to have to confront this. If one reads the
book, and copies will always be available as used books, or some of
your listeners may have copies. Yeah, when you get to the part in
the second half of the book that is my first person account, you will
read early on that I was unsure at times, but I didn't trust my
intuition. I felt the story was that important and the rationale that carried me
through to support him in so many ways for so long, in part revolved
around my belief that he was very troubled by this, that he's suffering post
traumatic stress, that there were people out to bring him down, and he
is nothing if not convincing, passionate, in fact, very charismatic, very
likable when he wants to put that out there. But it really came to
a head a little less than for me a little less than two years ago
at a conference we were both supposed to schedule to speak out in Glasgow,
Scotland. We're literally in the last few days leading to it, and it
was going to be the first time we had spoken together on the same stage
and a decade which the organizer, a great woman in Glasgow named Alison Dunlap,
who worked long and hard to raise the funds to bring us there and
did a lot of work to create an event that was going to culminate with
an hour and a half talk by us. That a woman posted a note
to him on an appropriate Facebook thread that she might be in the audience and
if she did, if she was, that she was going to ask him
a question that he might not like. His response, not uncommon for him,
unfortunately, was to threaten her physically. Really, the conference was held
at the University of Glasgow and she, I think very appropriately brought it to
their attention. He was banned from speaking at the conference, lied to my
face about a number of things, and then in follow up when I began
to question him about specifics, he refused to answer any of my questions,
starting to threaten me, and that was it enough. Already you will read
what I wrote to him, imploring him to deal with certain issues in his
life and have the courage to admit that he had misled people, but he
would have none of it. And I haven't been in touch with him in
well, certainly more than a year and a half in any manner is he
Do you think that he's just denying, denying everything and just standing his ground.
I think that's what he continues to do, and frankly I could care
less. Well, Um, it's a What's really the shame about this,
for the most part is all the time and all the effort that you put
into this because you believed in someone you know, And that's really not your
fault. It's really you know, anyone can tend to do that. And
uh, you know, I've I've had conversations with Alejandro about this, and
you know, it is a it's a shame that you were taken in and
I'm glad that you realized it and you did something about it. So for
you. Anybody that knows me knows my character. M The only reason I
got involved in this so many years ago was to try to find out what
had happened to my sister, to try to understand the implications of this truly
anomalous phenomena for humanity. And I am the kind of person that can be
fooled. What I would have never imagined what I didn't imagine which One of
the things that shocked me so much was that by the time he met me,
he already intended to deceive whomever it was he was going to be working
with, and by extension, are thousands of readers. As a result.
Some of the documentation, his official documentation that he gave me, had been
altered, which I simply didn't suspect even for a moment. And there are
other issues outside of the subject itself that reflect character problems that for me,
always enter into the matrix of who you are. I've had people say,
well, you know the fact that he has dealt in rock and roll memorabilia
that he is forged, which is an absolute fact going back many years as
well as yeah, yeah, as well as the providence, the forged providence
for it, and he's very good at him. That shouldn't reflect on his
account. Well, you know what, I disagree. When you don't tell
the truth, you don't tell the truth, and it can affect any area
of your life. Yes, I totally agree with that. Um, Well,
anyway, we don't want to stay stuck on this subject. I do
believe that is a fantastic case. It's it's right up there in the top
five. I've said that very much, very important case. It's very convoluted
too, and part of the convolution was possibly the Larry Warren, you know,
Larry Warren part of it, you know. But anyway, that's that's
over now. I'm glad also that you did what you did with your publisher
and removing the book, and you know, you did things right, Peter,
so that's all you can do. You did things right. So anyway,
we'll move on from that. We had some questions come in and let
me just pull one up that came into my email and we will check chat
later. Also, we're going to take calls a little bit later. So
Carrie wrote this question into me for you. With privately run groups being established
such as UPO tag UFO Data, if they are able to capture scientific data
that would prove anomalous activity in our skies, do you think it would be
would gain interest from traditional scientific groups and promote interest in the study of the
subject. That's an important question, carry yes and no. One of the
things I've ded delved into over the decades and keep returning to is the power
of ridicule relative to this subject, which cuts across every line. It can
affect everyday folks and very famous folks. Nobody likes to be made fun of,
and in certain careers it can help to destroy your career. Politics science
being among them most people who think of themselves as a serious, contributing member
of our greater scientific community. Quote unquote, No that there's nothing to the
subject, because if there were, they'd know they're scientists. Ask any of
them if they've ever read a book by Donald Kehoe or Bud Hopkins or Jacques
Valet or John Mack or exactly MK jessup, and of course they haven't.
They're busy people and they're not going to waste their time on this stuff.
Some of them have closet interests, but to go public with them no matter
what the alleged evidence suggests, and groups like UFO Update I think do us
a service overall. However, the Internet at large is a double edged sort,
and it's one thing to show what looks like brilliant footage of a truly
anomalous craft, and then when you start to dig down and find out that
you really cannot pin down the person who is alleged to have taken the photos,
getting information on the location any other witness, testimonies, photo analysis for
it. These things begin to fall apart. So I think we're still some
ways off on that it may take some extraordinary science fiction level event to wake
people up, especially in the scientific community. I absolutely understand why they feel
this way, having done deep research into the origins of the ridicule factor and
a paper I'll be happy to forward to you that delves into it at length
and goes into detail about people who were presidents, presidential candidates, leading political
figures, billionaires, important people in society, so to say, well known
people, if not important, and how every one of them was compelled to
back down sooner or later because of personal possibility of humiliation or the possibility of
their career going down in flames. Peter, just stepping back a little bit
to the former topic. Do you feel as though you are like a little
trigger shy into doing another book or do you think you'll you'll write more?
Yeah, thank you. I'm working on a book right now, and I'm
glad to say I've just accepted an invitation to begin writing regularly for one of
my two favorite online related publications called Outer Limits magazine that comes to us from
the UK. It's right up there with one that's been going on for longer
called Phenomena Magazine, and I encourage all of your listeners to subscribe. The
subscriptions are free, there are no strings attached. They don't do data mining.
But I am working on a book now, and yeah, it has
made me maybe a little trigger shy of accepting an extraordinary account at face value
without doing well. I'm a different person and more experienced than I was thirty
years ago when I got involved in this project. Most of my work,
though, outside of this, has not never really focused in on an individual
account. They have to do with moments in post war history where I can
research in an archival manner through libraries, through out of print books, through
interviews with people who knew people, and that is more failsafe. It's longer,
it's not a sexy it's definitely more time consuming. But I've produced a
lot of good work in that spirit, and a lot of it will be
in this anthology book that will be out some time later this year. Right,
we're going to put the number up on the Screenpeter, so we're going
to invite people to call in. If anyone wants to give a call and
ask ask Peter a question. So we'll get that up in just a second
here. So what do you think since this is something you and I have
not had a chance to really talk about, but what do you think has
changed over the last several months since the December sixteenth article came out, you
know about the Pentagon researching UFOs. What do you think has changed? Do
you think it's a different world now, It's not a different world, but
it definitely kind of hit an angle and is moving off in a slightly different
direction. What you're referring to, for those who are not aware, is
last December, the New York Times published an article going into detail about a
classified project that was funded by Congress to the tune of twenty two million dollars,
with leading Congress figures seriously involved in it. Even though the story begins
as a small box story, it begins on the front page, which is
very rare for the New York Times. I am probably the only person you
will ever meet who has read every single article, editorial, commentary, photo
caption, letter to the editor political cartoon about the subject of UFOs anomalous discs,
flying saucers that has ever published in the New York Times, so I
am familiar with the way that they work. It was followed on the interior
section, making it a full page with the accounts of two respected fighter pilots.
And we have had credible accounts from fighter pilots in this country and around
the world for decades similar scenarios and genuinely unknown object is cited over your territory.
It fails to respond to a request to identify it. Jets are scrambled,
they get close enough to see often that it is not anything conventional,
and they are ordered to fire on it. In every case that I am
aware of where they have been, their electronics go out, They make a
quick move to return to base. As soon as they turn around, everything
comes back on. In many cases they're ordered to go back at it again,
same thing happens. I think there were people, credible people, people
with a public profile, as well as a lot of regular folks who are
waiting for something like this to appear in print. In whether you know you're
a liberal or conservative, whether you love The New York Times, whether you
hate The New York Times, it is a major world publication. It's it
kind gave more credence to how seriously. Certain elected officials in the know are
about the subject, the fact that the funding was made available as opposed to
some mysterious black project that we can speculate on. And I think it has
caused more people to allow themselves the luxury, if you will, of saying
to somebody else, you know, I think there is something to this subject
now. I wasn't sure before, but now I'm more interested. One thing
I can tell you speaking at conferences and networking with people regularly here and abroad,
especially over the last six or eight years. Every year more and more
people, and interestingly many of them in the fifty to seventy demographic twenty and
thirty something folks overall do take the subject seriously, but they've got a lot
of other things on their plate. What I'm trying to say is more and
more people care less and less what other people think about what they think about
the subject, and that is important. That is a sea change for me.
And I'm seeing and speaking to more and more of these people again via
social networking, people who write me on email, contact me on my Facebook
page, or who I meet and get to know sometimes at conferences here and
abroad. Yes, Peter, we had all call in, but I didn't
want to interrupt you. So just to let the people out there know if
you call in, what I'm going to do is you'll come in, but
I'll be putting you on hold and You're just going to have to wait until
I introduce you. So I encourage the caller to call back. And so
the change there was actually something I wanted to talk to Alejandro about because George
and appted this report with this I Team report the other day where they going
back to the tik tak back in two thousand and four on the Nimitsu.
He was able to get some documents that were very very interesting. They were
talking about the data that was used, the equipment that was used. One
in particular, it could track a golf ball at one hundred miles. Then
they were all focusing on this object and it was reacting. It was reacting
to day Fraver, the pilot. The one thing that was very clear in
this which was really interesting because there was some confusion I thought there was,
was when the when the item, the tech tak so to speak, hovered
shot down to like fifty feet above the water. It was actually hovering over
an object down in the water that looked about one hundred yards across. So
this is all documents that came on government documents that George Knapp is working on.
Yes, so, and that's available. You can just search Google and
you can see it's actually on my website. I've posted the video of the
report on podcast UFO dot com for anyone wants to check that out. In
terms of serious investigators, and I don't mean self trained investigators writers like me,
I mean real journalists, you can't get any better than George. Now,
I agree, Yeah, I agree. Hats off to him and he
does not like compliments, by the way. I don't know if you've ever
noticed that, Sorry George. Yeah, okay, I'm just typing in.
If anyone wants to call in, you're just going to have to wait until
I until I bring you in. But so, what do you think has
changed as far as the overall attitude. I think I've noticed a number of
things, for instance, actually released audio, um you know, involve in
regard to that Arizona UFO, which is unheard of. So I think I
think that there are some things changing a little bit. Yes, yeah,
Um. The thing is that frustrates some of my colleagues, especially dear friends
who are very active in what we call the disclosure movement, is that they're
not changing fast enough. Things are changing arithmetically. They change when you see
something that, like me as a kid, radically alters your perception of the
world and the nature of truth. Or if somebody you know share something with
you, and again a person who you absolutely implicitly trust. But they're changing,
you know, five to seven, nine, two people at a time.
They're not changing geometrically. I remember early on in his pioneering work as
a true godfather of disclosure movement, my good friend in colleague, Steve Bassett,
and I chatting years ago, and Steve said, you know, year
old enough to remember the anti war movement in Vietnam War. I certainly do.
I was an art student in New York at the time and very much
against the war and in the streets protesting it at different times. And that
movement began to really change geometrically after Ramsey Clark left as Attorney General and I
think a week later emerged as one of the leaders of the anti war movement,
making Lyndon Johnson. I'm sure especially I'm happy that week and when the
legendary Walter Cronkite went on cb YES that night and made it very clear he
also felt that this was no longer viable and a wrong war. Our parents
started to join us, young men who were draft eligible, and the women
in the field cared about us as well. I don't think the disclosure movement
will hit that mark again unless something completely unpredictable, extremely dramatic, that is
undeniable in an international sense, happens. You know, I agree with you
and that I've said that a number of times similar. But I also think
that if for some reason that dramatic event happened and it was undeniable, I
think now we've had so much softening, for instance, just that one particular
article coming out and some more people looking into it that never did before,
and all that, I think that I think our life will just go on.
I think that people will accept it a lot more freely now. I
don't think the world's going to come crashing down and religion failing and all that.
I think it's just going to be accepted, and it's going to be
not forgotten, but it's we're going to live with it. Yes, and
no, I think people of faith will remain people of faith. However,
when you and I and like minded people discuss this, one thing I often
observe is that we forget that we live in a bubble, that our views,
long entrenched, in many cases, surrounded by people who have similar beliefs,
make us forget or not be aware of the degree to which we are
still very much a minority, and that the great majority of other people in
this country and around the world relative to this subject, are doing their best,
hopefully to pay their bills, raise healthy kids, hope that there's social
Security or its equivalent health services when they need them, live in a decent
society that cares about its people, and otherwise sleepwalking their way through this subject.
I think there will be a potential tremendous upheaval, and it's one of
the reasons why I'm very circumspect about power to the people everything now disclosure on
everything, which was the way I felt decades ago when I got into it.
But if you really care about people and how they are overall going to
react, that's something you can't allow yourself to forget. I'm not sure what
the solution is, but that's a fact, right right, Yeah, Well,
I think UM, I think a lot of things have like headed toward
you know. I heard I heard a UFO researcher said, disclosure has already
happened, basically, you know. And I think maybe that's it's happened.
To the extent it's going to happen. I don't know, but UM,
I think all the way going back to Kepler, UM, you know,
just discovering UM, all these possible earthlike planets, UM, and just the
fact that we have more and more information coming at us all the time,
that just seems it's so almost impossible for us to be alone. UM.
And that's I think that's that's a fair statement and an understatement. UM.
Over the past decade or so, even the most conservative, recalcitrant UH denying
UM astronomers and members of the space looking scientific community have conceded that there are
not just millions, but millions and millions potentially of Earth size planets about the
same different distance that we are from a similar size star to the Sun.
If you are a religious person, it sets up the potential for the miracle
of the creation of life by God. If you are secular thinking or scientifically
oriented person, it sets up the building blocks for the primortal ooze that the
first one celled animal was created in and you know, gave birth to a
two celled animal, a creature whatever. So yeah, that is good.
But still I think part of what is keeping those folks stuck besides ridicule,
is for some people it's just hard to think about giving up the role that
we humans have come to think of ourselves in. Even if we are the
poorest, most powerless person, we're still a member of the most complex and
amazing species ever to evolve. And maybe there are a million years from now.
Uh, maybe they are entirely different, non carbon based life forms,
um silican. Maybe you know they're from another dimension right next to us,
you and Maine. Me in New York right now, enjoying the show very
much, and I've always been with us in a combination thereof yeah. Yeah,
we have a caller on the line. Caller, what's your first name?
And where you're calling from? My name is Can you say that again?
We've got a bad connection. Yes, my name is Mike and I'm
calling from Winnipeg. Can you gars me Mike from Winnipeg? Yes, sir,
Hi there, how you if I could speak up just a little that'd
be great. Sure, I was wanting to know, uh, Peter's saughter
position is regarding the you two phenomena and whether there is a connection or association
between it and consciousness or mental telepathy. Great question, Mike. It's become
really very popular to backpedal the et hypothesis, although I think it's one of
the most conservative ones now in looking at these other intelligences, I've come to
feel, and based on evidence that I've seen over the decades, that's certainly
some of what we call UFO activity is representative of advanced technology under intelligent control,
and that it's not much of a stretch to consider that if they are
as technologically advanced compared to us as they may well be, that they may
well also be more advanced in terms of consciousness within the abduction phenomena. We've
observed hundreds of times in that research area of research specialty that they, for
lack of a better term, I've never been comfortable with the term aliens,
these other intelligences can certainly affect our perception. So I think that your question
is very well founded, and I think that there is genuinely something to what
you're asking. Hey, Mike, Thanks for the call. Do you have
any other question? No, that's it. Thank you, great show,
Thank you Mike. Thanks. So the line's open if anyone wants to call
in, Peter, what do you think is the and I'll try to let
you know if we have a caller calling in. So, what is your
What do you think is the biggest challenges that the UFO community has right now?
I think part of it is working together more cohesively. We human beings,
and we're no different in this area of study. Clashes of egos,
people putting forward their own passionate beliefs as empirical fact is a big problem for
me. No matter how respected or well known, or how many books you
sell, if you make a statement, as one person has some time back,
that all aliens are good, or that a specific number are visiting our
earth, now, for me, that's complete bull nonsense. And I don't
care how many deep sources you have within the intelligence community, the deep government,
whether the President of the United States, the head of Russia, the
supreme rulers of six alien races, all rolled into on being. There are
certain things that you cannot know in anything remotely provable. This only hurts the
work the side shows of claims of things that I consider somewhat outrageous, just
based on a document that has no providence, that may have been, you
know, secretly spirited out of official circles with a very sincere account from somebody
who will look you in the eye when they tell you about, you know,
their mission on Mars, etc. Let me put it this way.
When I was about twelve years old, through my love of film and reading,
I was introduced to a character named Sherlock Holmes, a wonderful creation of
an English writer named Arthur Conan Doyle. Hold it while I terminate that,
Hey, I think we have actually, um, Peter, we may have
a caller on the line. I go for it. Julie, Uh caller?
Are you there? Well, I've been called worse things before. Hey,
Lee, it's so weird. Lee. I never I never accepted your
call, so I never saw unless I did too it once. So,
Lee Spiegel, how are you? That's what? That's what. That's one
of the reasons why you and I cannot be real good friends because you don't
accept my calls. Hello, Peter. Hello, Well you know I just
couldn't help myself because when I heard you say the words trimoidial ooze. Oh
gosh, I wasn't that just about you? I swear it was like,
it's like you were talking about where I live. Yeah, if you're in
Queens, that's my birthplace. Man, that's why it is. I know,
I know, I know, I'm I'm watching the ship for you here.
It's nice. It's nice to see both of you, and I just
wanted to say that I actually feel I'm very pretty sure about this. Disclosure
has happened. And I get really crazy when I hear people say not only
that there's no evidence, but disclosure is imminent. Oh, come on,
both you know. It's it's like all that anybody really has to do is
do some legwork. And I'm not saying you Peter, or you Martin or
any the other researchers who I respect. It's like, if people want to
believe in something, that they're gonna believe in it, whether they do any
research on it or not. But when it comes to UFOs, and if
we're being visited by anybody from somewhere else, and I don't care where they
might be coming from, I don't think that's important. But there's there's tons
of evidence out there. The naysayers, the hard nosed skeptics, the debunkers.
You know, they're in it for their own agenda. Um. But
but in terms of agendas, there is no real overall agenda. I think
that there's plenty of evidence. People just have to go out there, do
the legwork, read the documents, go into historical records, do some research,
folks, and you will find stuff that will open your eyes there that
might piece Yes. Um, for those who are not familiar with my dear
friend and close colleague, league Spiegel, once again, I am a self
trained investigative writer. Lee is a journalist and one of the best ever in
this field. Absolutely, thank you and thank you. It's a fact,
and we may It's possible that Lee might be coming up with another person on
my show, but I don't know if Lee has that confirmed yet. Does
Lee. Well, we're working on it. We're working and I don't mind
saying. You know, we're talking about, um, my good friend James
Fox, whom I am co producing, um, the next UFO documentary that
will becoming I'm jealous. Oh well, well, don't be. Just just
be as as hopeful as I am that this thing is going to be what
we hope it will, and it will open people's minds or change people's attitudes.
Should have a little bit about UFOs. We're not going to be We're
not attacking the government with the governments of the world about why why there's been
so much secrecy and conspiracies and lying against the public. That's not where we're
heading in this particular documentary. And we've got some interviews that will blow everybody
away. I will tell you that that are already in the can. Then
we have more to get and we're working very diligently. I'm going out to
California in about a week and I'm going to be there with James for the
whole month of June, walking on the script of this documentary. Please send
him my best wishes, and I will not now say let's get together when
I'm back in town next month. I would rather be in California, I
think. But James Fox is among the finest documentary filmmakers ever to tackle this
subject. I'm working with you. I am already very excited. Do you
guys have a working title that you can share? I can. I can
give you that much tonight. Sure, Um, it's called UFOs. What
we now know excellent. It was seven oh one or that was the title
at first, but things have changed a lot of people still contact me wondering
what's going on with that, But so that's the yeah, yeah, yeah,
And for any any members of your audience who don't know even the reference
of seven oh one UM. When when Project Bluebook, the Air Forces twenty
two twenty three years study of UFOs, when it ended after after looking at
twelve thousand plus UM cases and reports about UFOs, they ended up with seven
hundred and one cases that were completely unexplained and unknown. And and so those,
some of those cases are what we're dealing with because frankly, I don't
care about the have a twelve thousand more because you know, it's like,
you know, you're going to take a stance. You've got to put your
focus on what's really worth looking into. And I personally don't want to spend
any time looking at objects that were obviously the planet Venus that was moving around
in the sky. It's just don't makes sense to me. Um. And
I also want to say that I'm a big admirer of Peter Robbins. Peter
is is one of the more dogged and I use that word likely dogged investigators
of a variety of subjects. And I know he's been all of the Rendelssom
case in England. And well you your your audience probably knows who Peter is.
He's out there, he's doing great work and I appreciate him, always
have. Yeah, Hayley, thanks so much for the call, and I
hope to be talking to you just in a couple of weeks. Yes,
sir, me too. Good night out. Wonderful hearing your voice late,
Youtuo, Peter, take it easier, alight, Okay, all right,
we have another caller on the line. Your first name and where you're calling
from. Abner Calls the Florida. Hi, Abner, welcome to the show.
You have a question for Peter. Well, um, all things I
am. I spoke to me about the whole disclosure thing. He I do
possib believe the schloid has already happened. Everybody just needs an open her eyes
a little bit. The person I have for Peter is he making about his
sister. And I'm very curious as to what brought him to the conclusion his
sister was abducted or may have been abducted. Well, my sister and I
she passed away in two thousand, were always very close in age, in
interests. As adults, we were roommates. She was a brilliant artist,
a singer, songwriter, a writer. She's one of the most honest and
straightforward people I ever knew. She told me this at a time more than
forty years ago, when I had never thought about this is a possibility.
Over time, the things that she told me, sometimes word for word,
came up in dozens and dozens and dozens of cases that I worked with Budd
Hopkins on. She never, unlike me, never forgot that day and never
forgot the memories. But as she said to me fourteen and a half years
later, when I asked her why we had never talked about this, she
said, do you remember that afternoon when I asked you if you wanted to
talk about it? And you said no? And I said, of course,
And she said, you know you're my brother. I love you,
and I respect you. And one day led to the next week, led
to the next month, led to the next year. As time passed,
she worked closely with that extraordinary police detective who was a pioneer in using regressive
hypnosis in criminal investigation and with Bud Hopkins to delve into her experiences with more
depth in terms of abductie accounts. And obviously you might think I'm lacking certain
objectivity here, and that's fair to say, but it is her account is
as credible and as well backed up. Also included an implant which we could
spend a whole show on, an anomalous object in her case, way up
in her nasal cavity that she sneezed out as a child, which became something
I remembered because it was the only time growing up that I was awakened in
the middle of the night by my parents moving around and Helen in her bed
with her pillowcase quite red with she had sneezed the sing out she had asthma
and got all kinds of allergies. She saw it had kind of a girl's
reaction of ick and kept it in the clean x and threw it away.
The implant phenomena, though, is as real as the chair that I'm sitting
on, and there are quite a number of specialty researchers in that part of
the field. More, I don't think I can give you Abner, but
I did and do take her case as seriously as the case that I went
into in detail earlier in the show about Linda and the Brooklyn Bridge UFO abductions
and so many other people. Thank you for that, Peter Abner, thank
you very much for your call. Yes, all right, so Peter,
did you And I'm sorry your sister passed away. I remember we've talked about
that. Did you have her go through any of the work with Bud?
Actually, oh my god, I didn't have her do it. She did
it. They became very dear friends. But she was one of more than
eight hundred people that he worked with in regression. Eight hundred. Oh yeah,
I know, because I logged in all those audio cassettes and kept it
was all back in the day, done in analog formatitnessed more hypnotic aggressions than
I can even recall now. At the request of the individual and Bud obviously
speaking of that, we have a we have a call coming in at the
same time, So that was perfect timing for that person to call. You
call your first name, Where are you calling from? My name is Lyndy
and I'm calling from Tennessee. Hi there, welcome to the show. Hello.
I can't believe I got through. That's cool. That's the first time
I even turned in I'm loving yourself. Thank you. I've wanted to point
out something here. I am fifty nine, so I'm one of the last
of the baby boomer bunch, and we grew up watching our people getting assassinated
and still rights, you know, fight and Watergate and one bit of corruption
after the other, and it just seems like it's just all from bad to
words over the past fifty seven years. My concern I hear people saying the
others been disclosure, But I think what people like me after seeing all this
craft that's taken place. I see that there has been a grave abuse of
Americans and humanity in general by this cover up in some shadow government. And
I'm not into all the deep dark conspiracies as far as that goes political wise,
just the fact that it looks to me from the outbad looking in that
this has been something used to subvert our very system of laws that are meant
to protect we the people. If you, if I understand where I'm going
with this, this is the full disclosure I'm looking for, because if we
don't get the cancer out of the system, that's going to kill all of
us. It can be used to do anything that just about this, that
or the other, for national security or whatever. And I'm tired of being
lied to it. I feel like we've been lied to for decades and I'm
tired of it. I'm really said, I'm a grown woman. I'm not
a five year old child. You tell me that there's aliens visiting here,
I'll say, hey, buddy, myn named Linda, let's let's talk.
I'm not going to run and hide under my bed and freak out. I'm
a grown woman. I can deal with it. And I don't like being
treated like a child. Thank you. And I'm tired of the government hide
it. I couldn't agree with you more. And for me, your view
goes to the core of the real problem here on Earth regarding this subject.
In the summer of nineteen forty seven, through an extraordinary pounding away by our
media, quietly, tacitly not interfered with it, to put it mildly,
by our government, the American people and by extension, the Western world were
simply made to understand and accept, really without much question, that all of
this nonsense about visitations space we're all explainable and conventional ways for those of us
who are serious students of the subject, the thousands of pages of fully authentic
guilt edged formally classified documentation from every imaginable agency, military, intelligence, governmental
offices that counter that and show how concerned we were about the potential for panic.
I think what they're really talking about and talk about national security, national
insecurity. Starting at the get go that summer in the post war years,
America was such a different place. We had really we were the good guys.
We really were the good guys. We had helped make this world free
from fascism, and the Marshal Plan was doing something extraordinary, helping our former
enemies rebuild their societies and ideally go on to a better world together well and
worked out so well in many respects. But I think those people that were
involved in the initial wave of secret keeping, they were all powerful white guys
who had a vested interest in being perceived as powerful. This was at a
moment when the power balance in the world was shifting. The Soviet Union was
our next big enemy, the next war could be nuclear Paranoia of a different
sort was engendering itself, and it was seen as the right thing to do
to lie through or tis to the American people. For me the birth of
our National security State, which euphologically I think is brilliantly laid out in the
first two of three volumes by I think most respected UFO related historian Richard M.
Dolan in his books UFOs in the National Security State one and two.
Is that first eart, that first irritant that had to be covered up did
not have to do with nuclear secrets. It had to do with keeping this
secret and like a pearl, building layers and layers and layers until it was
this huge thing at the beginning, in the middle of all of it.
I think your view is absolutely right. I admire your attitude about it.
I think there are a lot of people who will be able, despite what
I said earlier about you know, fear of the unknown and possibility of panic
among some people, who will be able to stand up and say, okay,
I always suspected this, or if the worst was possible, you know,
we'd all be taken over or melted down now like an ad that's already
yeah. I think a weird generation that grew up with Star Trek okay,
that blasted my boin open. I don't want a cool concept. I don't
want to get out there meet these other beings. Just to me, it
made so much more sense than we're the only one, and I see that
people all around our end we feel the same way. And what it looks
like to me, this control, this cover up isn't more to maintain that
power over people. That's right, It's not about protecting us. Here's two
reasons why they're doing it. Number One, because one of the central secrets
after seventy plus years, is how little we really know and understand about that,
and that is something that fragile egos that want to be seen as powerful
cannot deal with. The other thing, brilliantly pointed out decades ago by our
senior most respected ufologists, Stanton T. Friedman, now retired, retiring from
the field after more than fifty years of slugging away one of the greatest people
ever in the field, is very if. Indeed, it was announced that
we are not alone in the universe. We're being visited by other beings that
they some of them maybe are you want to work with us and have been
watching overs or concerned about us. Other ones that may be malevolent. I
think they have the potential of being anything that we are that we for the
first time as human beings on earth. God forbid for people who live by
a code of nationalism and controlling the rest of us by where the line is
drawn in the dirt. And you're on this side, I'm on this side.
You're the other. You're evil. I don't understand. You speak a
different language, you have a different colored skin. We might, fire of
horrors, start to think of ourselves from the very first time together as human
beings rather than Americans, Russians, Indians, Canadians, Venezuelans, Catholics,
Muslims, Buddhist, Jews, men, women, and that would be devastating
to the forces that like to move the chess pieces. That's right, great,
dad is very well said, very well said. I've enjoyed talking with
you. I'm glad to meet you. I think you and I could sit
talking a pleasure And thank you for your clear thinking. Yeah, thank you,
Lindia, Bye bye bye. Um so yes, um so the lines
are open if someone else would like to call in. Um. And speaking
of Stanton Freedman, I had him and um Kathy Marden on my show back
in December. And it's the first time. Yeah, and it's the first
YouTube video that I did a podcast on that actually hit one hundred thousand views.
That just hit it. Um wow yesterday, I think so yeah,
UM, and I want I'm going to get stand On. I've been communicating,
going to get stand On for just one more time before he retires for
a retirement show. So listener, keep your eyes open for that. It's
going to be some time this summer. We'll have, UM, we'll have
some time to do that. So we're going to go about um to make
up for those the star time, We're going to go about another fifteen minutes
or so, Peter, are you all right with that? Yeah? Okay,
because our start time was delayed. So, so you mentioned the issues
with the UFO field. What do you think is good about the UFO field
today that we have people with the courage, with the curiosity to say the
hell with ridicule. I'm putting myself on the line here. I'm interested in
it. I'm not going to not talk about it. I'm reading about it.
I'm networking with people. I'm trying to understand for myself with the goal
of wanting to make a contribution in what I consider extremely important work. I
support anybody who is trying to follow that path. I would suggest that you
keep your day jobs and don't do what I do, and try to do
it full time and pay your bills by doing it. Um. It's it's
very rough going, but there's room for as many people who are willing to
put themselves on the line and do the work for me. That's inspiring,
especially when it's younger generation. Yes, yeah, we need it would be
nice, you know, going to conferences you don't see while you're starting to
see some, but it's there's kind of an aging you know, conference going
crowd, you know at this point, so it would be nice to see
it. Um, you know, get a little younger and more people.
I understand. You know, there's so much information being thrown at young people
today from all different directions and everything. You know, everything is built for
a very short attention span. You need a long attention span for this field.
You know about the ridicule part of it, you know, it's it's
pretty amazing. You know, I've spoken to a number of people that have
no ridicule, and some people have a lot of ridicule. And I'm talking
about like in the workplace, for instance, Preston Dennett was on a couple
of weeks ago, and he was saying, you know, everyone at work
knows him as a UFO guy, and it's great. And I worked with
a few years ago at a startup company and it was for collectibles, but
it's still going today. It's an internet startup company. And I had a
position there was advising them and stuff, and it came out that I headed
a UFO show and everyone was like thirty some odd people. They all loved
it, and you know, we're talking about it all the time. So
it really depends on what profession someone's in and what they're doing and if they
get ridiculed or not. As you, as an artist, I don't think
you ever had to worry about that part of it, did you? Not
as much? I give you an example though, About thirty years ago,
I had a series of summer jobs teaching in a wonderful program sponsored by the
Oklahoma Council on the Arts, working in an area in northeastern Oklahoma where I
work with kids, most of them split between the children or the grandchildren of
Phillips Petroleum Executives and Engineers, which had its headquarters in Bartlesville, Oklahoma at
the time, and Osage and Cherokee kids. I was an artist and I
was teaching art and one Saturday afternoon I had afternoon to myself. I had
my loner pickup truck. I was having a burgh or someplace in town.
And the father of one of the kids that I worked with that year in
the year before saw me through the window, came in, you know,
very happy to see me, and immediately said, Pete, you're not going
to believe this. I got a call from such and such last night.
He said, you gotta You're not going to believe this. But I was
tuning through the television channels and I saw that our teacher, Pete Robbins on
television and guess what the show was about? UFOs And he started to laugh
as he said it, and he said that couldn't have been you, right,
Well, it actually could have been me, because it is a subject
I do besides being an artist. And he his face fell and he got
very quiet and serious and said, I can't believe it. And this guy
was an engineer, an oil engineer, well educated, well traveled, not
unsophisticated. His basic response was you work with our kids, We trust you,
We think of you is as smart and I said, you know,
well, let's talk about this more. The upshot was he invited me to
speak for a club out of I think it was their local Elks club that
he called the s ob I said, look on my face, he said,
the Skeptics of Bartlesville. And about a week or so later I was
their guests at a lovely dinner where we drank a lot and had a lot
of fun. And then they put my feet to the fire and started hitting
me with questions and dismissing my answers. And by the time the thing that
got around to absolutely splitting the room wide open was without giving the name of
the signer, I read two letters copies of letters that I had in my
files on a stationary of the United States Senate, letters to a constituent to
two different constituents from the then senior Senator. When the letters are written not
I did the talk from the great state of Arizona named Barry M. Goldwater,
who, as many people in the field know, was a reserve general
in the United States Air Force and an activist UFO person. And they didn't
care about Reagan. They didn't care about other people who I brought up,
who took it seriously. But when I mentioned Goldwater's name and they got that
these were authentic documents, they started arguing with each other, and after a
while it wasn't so much fun. But yeah, I think again. Also,
we have to remember that the climate is getting better. It's certainly not
you cleared airspace yet, but it is. As I said, more and
more people care less and less about what other people think about what they think
about this important subject right right. You know, there's an interesting question that
came on came up that kind of skims around the topic that we've talked about
tonight, and this comes from Carrie as well. In the UFO field,
we tend to think about government agencies keeping secrets from the public. Have you
ever thought about how much of a burden it would be for the individuals involved
in knowing the truth about alien interaction with our planet and keeping the secret from
the public. Do you have an opinion on that? Carry thought about regularly
for decades. I am one of those people who, and it's not always
a good thing. I tend to see both sides of an argument fairly clearly.
Even when I come down very solidly on one side, I can still
have some understanding and compassion for people on the other side. My best sense,
and it's more intuitive than documented, is that people in a number of
secret levels who are cleared to no certain amounts of information about this, but
of course are not able to talk about it publicly, struggle with it.
A good number of them probably want to keep up the status quo because it
will be that so embarrassing if we have to go forward and admit that we've
been lying to the American public and the world for so long, and other
ones who really want to see this come out, and there may be more
infighting going on behind the scenes than we imagine. One thing to remember,
if we still lived in a world where say a president of the United States
could do this on their own, and that time has been gone for decades,
Harry Truman could have done it. Probably President Eisenhower could have done it.
By Kennedy, I don't think so. There's too many considerations. There's
too many. You'd have to network, you'd have to coordinate, you'd have
to counsel. But let's just say we lived in a world where whoever's president
right now, it's Donald Trump. I think who knows what, if anything,
he's been cleared to know about this subject. I think each president is
informed or lacks information, depending on how the secret keepers and members key members
of the intelligence community feel about them as individuals and as leaders. But no
American president would do it because the secrets started here in the moment they said,
my fellow Americans, it's my solemn duty to inform you that since nineteen
forty seven at least we have been aware. Blah blah blah blahah. They
would be admitting that they had been a co conspirator along with their Democratic and
Republican, liberal and conservative counterparts, going back to Harry Truman, in the
greatest cover up in human history. And I don't think any world leader wants
to take that on themselves, certainly not an American president. If he did,
he had tweeted out. Don't you think probably would be a tweet,
one of those tweets. Yeah, we're not alone and it's huge. Yeah,
all right. Hey, Peter, someone asked earlier, if you're going
to be speaking like any tour around a different areas this year, do you
have any engagement speaking engagements lined up. I'm working on a number of them
right now. Most of my time has spent with my dad, who is
advanced age. I am as caregiver. He's a great guy. I love
him and that's what I'm doing most of the time now. But it's not
a hardship. It's just the way it should be. I have a talk
coming up in New York State on June ninth, which is a Saturday,
in the beautiful little town of Orleans, New York, that maybe three of
your listeners might be able to get to. I'm right now networking with friends
and colleagues in the Midwest in California to bring me to both locations for an
extensive series of talks in both places. I've got a number coming up in
New England at the end of this summer, starting with the Exeter, New
Hampshire UFO Festival and Conference, one of my favorites that I'll see you there
out Yeah. Yeah, Actually, I'm gonna be doing I'm trying to work
it out to do a show there on Saturday, a live show. Oh
wonderful. Yeah, heiter, We have another caller. Caller, your first
name and where are you calling from? Uh? Hi, my name is
Adam and I'm calling from New York. Adam show my hometown Oh yeah,
I was. I'm happy to sell a New York or call on ye here
right, you have a question for Peter, Yes I do. Um.
Actually a first quick thought, Um, I've I've heard that if only one
particle, if we had one more particle or one must particle during the Big
Bang, um, that white as we know it would not exist. I
wouldn't be able to exist, you know, everything would be completely different.
And with that in mind, I was wondering, Uh, if you have
heard of the stimulation theory, and if what are your thoughts on that.
I haven't heard of it, so I have no thoughts on it. Okay.
Um, oh, well, it's just a theory that perhaps reality as
we know it is just a simulation. Oh um, that we are a
computer program Yeah we sort of. Yeah, um yeah, I guess for
me, we when we begin to debate or philosophize or look into such matters,
we're really kind of stringing things together by spider webs. We're working on
intuition, myth belief, longing hypotheses. Very interesting, but I know how
much talk into it, not even that. I just I think it's such
a huge consideration and I'm not a scientific person. I've trained myself and I've
studied in certain areas to understand basic concepts or gone off on tangents and read
papers relative to research that I'm doing. But I don't think I'm very well
qualified to answer that question because I don't have enough information to have an informed
opinion about it, and a lot of time times in life, especially in
this area, where after forty years, I know how little I know,
I choose not to have an opinion if I don't have enough information to have
an intelligent or basically informed opinion with respect, well I'll just go. Yeah,
just a little thought on that myself is I just think there's so many
things that needed to happen for there to be life. I mean, just
for life to happen on Earth, for instance, like just the fact if
ice didn't float, there would be no life, you know. I mean,
it's one little, tiny, little simple thing, and there are so
many simple things that made life possible. So yeah, it's all it's an
interesting subject. I appreciate the call. Where near the end of the show,
thank you, madam, give my regards for going with Yeah, all
right, have a good night, guy, all right, you two all
right, So Peter so, um, can you give out your website one
more time? Yeah, it's my name and the initials of my home state,
Peter Robbins R O, B B I, M s NY dot com.
And it is sorely in need of updating. But again relative to the
situation we discussed earlier, Front and Center is a long paper on my feelings
about that. Yes, all right, Peter, thanks so much. As
always, it's a pleasure to talk to you, and well I'll be seeing
you. One question came in in the chat room some to know if you
were going to go to the Philadelphia and Moufon convention this year. As things
stand right now, I am scheduled to mc that conference. Oh excellent.
All right, Peter, thanks so much, and we'll be seeing you an
Exeter. I'll look forward to it. Martin. Always a pleasure working with
you. Thank you, yes, and thank you. Thank you for the
situation that you handled so well with Larry Warren. I appreciate that as a
r if I person. Thank you back at your brother. All right,
okay, everyone, so that's it for our show and we'll be back next
week and we have Grant Cameron on next week and right, yeah, so
I want to thank everyone that supports the show, and I also want to
thank the people that help out. Alejandro Rojas unfortunately didn't have much of a
show today. I want to thank our guest of course, Peter Robbins and
Evan behind the scenes, Peggy for helping out with the Facebook page. Remember
to like us on Facebook for all the UFO latest news and that's updated every
day. All right, So we'll be back next week, and don't forget
two weeks from today. We're going to be starting on Tuesday nights and at
six to eight, and we're going to be over on KGr A Radio as
well. All right, thanks so much. Remember to keep your eyes to
the sky.