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Hello, and welcome to the show. I'm Martin Willis your host, and

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we have a good show for you
this evening. We have Peter Robbins coming

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up. It's going to be talking
about a lot of interesting topics. And

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we also have Alejandro Rojas coming up, but only for a minute. There's

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some audio issues we try to work
out. So I want to thank everyone

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that supports a show. Anyone can
do that at two dollars more a month.

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All that information is on podcast ufo
dot com Again. We are moving

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to Tuesday on June fifth, Tuesday
nights from then on out, and that's

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six to eight pm Eastern Standard time. Nothing will change for the podcast listener

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except you'll get your podcast a day
early. That's the only thing. All

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right, So we're ready to begin. Alejandro, what's going on? How

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are you? You can hear me
right all on? Good? Sorry,

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you keep coming in and out kind
of like you're on another planet or something,

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but you probably are. I am, yeah, but uh but anyway,

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yeah, just winning it man to
go ahead and tell us what's going

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on in the UFO world. Okay, some cool things. So a couple

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of things. First of all,
just my own personal news. The other

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day I got to interview Peggy Whitson. Now she is an astronaut, who

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she is the one we had we're
talking about who has logged the most kind

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of space her when it comes to
yeah, when it comes to us astronauts,

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So six hundred and fifty five days, I think, And then her

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longest sting out there was three hundred
days or two hundred and eighty nine actually,

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so just short of Scott Kelly's who
was there, you know, a

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little bit longer than that. So
yeah, so it was a lot of

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fun. Of course, I asked
her about a lot of stuff. You'll

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be able to read about it at
Den of Geek even this week. But

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I did ask her about UFOs,
and I tweeted about it and Facebook so

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you guys could see it. But
essentially what she said is she doesn't know

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much about UFOs, but that the
there's a lot out there and it's a

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big universe, and she doesn't think
anything's not possible, so she's open to

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the idea, which was kind of
interesting, but that was about all she

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had to say about that. Now
all hundred did she talk about any ill

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effects from being a space so long? She did? We did talk a

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little bit about that, and I
can't remember the details right now, but

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that will be in a story that
I'll have coming out probably next week at

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Den of Geek. So we talked
about Scott Kelly a bit and some of

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the bad effects that he had,
But she essentially talked about one of the

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things that she talked about that that
they're working on that they don't have a

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solution for yet is bone density.
So I guess your bone density can return,

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but your bone quality cannot, So
you do have some sort of deterioration

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of your bone. But she is
hopeful that and they're working on perhaps different

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drugs or things that can be taken
that will help keep that from being an

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issue. So that was one issue
that, yeah, I was not aware

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of that she brought up with me
as an example of what she feels is

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one of the kind of their major
hurdles for a long time, you know,

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human spending a long time in space. But that it's something she's confident

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that will get I'm gonna hang up
on you and try you back see if

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I can make that work. By
the way, I'm going out to Chicago

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UM tomorrow UM for over the Memorial
Day weekend. Hope to see my good

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friend Sam Moronto out there. He's
probably going to be stopping by. We'll

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see. Looks like we're having a
skype problem with Alejandro, and I believe

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Peter, how are you? I'm
fine? Thanks? Where I think it's

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Alejandro's end on skype because he's not
even answering you. Hear me clearly?

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Don't you just fine? Are we
going to get through this? Peter,

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Yes, we are. Martin,
Yeah, all right, So I apologize

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to the listener. We're not sure
what happened to Alejandro. Um, we're

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back with Peter and Peter Robbins.
Um we met up in Maine. Boy,

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I'm telling you like five six years
ago something like that. That's right,

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and we've kind of been staying in
touch. Well, we've been staying

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in touch ever since, through good
and bad, even when you were in

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Russia. That's right. Yeah,
And it's been a while since you've been

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on the show. I'm really glad
to have you back. I'm glad to

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be back Martin. Yeah. And
so Peter, for the person who has

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not heard you before, can you
give them the background story? And I

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want you to tell you've told it
before on this show. You had a

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sighting very young, and if I
remember correctly, you forgot about it.

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Is that right? I worked very
hard to forget about it at the age

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of fourteen. Yes, essentially,
it involved myself and my sister Helen.

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We were playing outside of the house
that we grew up in in a very

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lovely village about thirty miles east of
Manhattan, where I was born in New

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York City, but my parents moved
us out to the suburbs. And it

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was just a beautiful late morning in
June in the early sixties. We were

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two kids goofing around clear blue sky
and one of those times in a small

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town where there's absolutely nothing going on, no cars going by, no ice

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cream truck, no other kids playing. We were just six feet to the

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left of me, and I caught
vision immediately called her attention to it as

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five silvery white disc shaped objects,
not round but oval, like if you

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take a dinner plate and you tip
it and it becomes like an ellipse.

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They were in a very precise V
type formation. They were not shiny like

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stainless steel, more like you know, subdued. We could clearly make out

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regular detailing around the perimeter of each
one. That was the way that,

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at an appreciable different distance you might
read windows on a conventional airliner. And

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I it was a particularly innocent time, and I was a particularly innocent kid.

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For those that are old enough to
remember, leave it to beaver.

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That was about my speed. I
was a mega nerd. I collected stamps,

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bugs, I read a lot,
I wasn't into sports, and obviously

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it was more innocent time. My
only thoughts up until that moment about flying

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saucers was that they were real in
the movies I would sometimes see on a

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Saturday afternoon with some of my geeky
little buddies, and I saw some great

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black and white bee movies back then. But I guess I intuited the adult

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message about them that they didn't really
exist, but there they were, and

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there was no ambiguity. They were
round, they had no appendages, and

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I went through an immediate reaction that
I've since chronicled with I'm sure several hundred

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people over the decades, that I've
come to call the checklist reaction. You

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look up in the sky and you
see a thing or things, and you

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immediately rattled through in your brain everything
they're not airplanes, kites, helicopters,

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blimps, balloons, birds, flotsam
and jets, reflections from the ground,

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strange shaped clouds, and I kind
of hit the wall. I experienced a

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moment of loneliness that was incredibly deep, and with it came the realization that

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if they were real, and the
adult world said they most certainly were not,

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then everything I thought I knew might
be open to question. I was

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in adolescence, being run by my
hormones, wanting more than anything to be

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taller, to have better hair,
to have cooler clothes, to not be

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wearing glasses, and most of all, to have a girlfriend. And I

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thought, very seriously, if I
ever talked about this, word will get

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out, people will make fun of
me, and that part of my life

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will never happen. And I'm not
really joking. I started to run into

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the house to tell my mother I
was knocked out or passed out. I

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got up, went into the house, walked up the stairs on an intuition

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that my sister would be there.
She was in her bedroom with her back

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to me, looking out the back
window. I thought private moment. I

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went into the kitchen, where my
mom was making us lunch. And I

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told her, and I didn't remember
it because I again put it out of

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my mind for more than fourteen years. I joke with people and say,

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if I had other repressed memories in
childhood, I don't remember them, but

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this was the one, and once
I should jump ahead for a moment and

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say once the memory did come back, and I more than confirmed it with

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my sister. Over the next few
years, voluntarily and with great curiosity,

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underwent hypnotic regression with the hypnotist that
I knew, ultimately with Bud Hopkins,

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one of my mentors and a dear
friend who I worked for for many years

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as his assistant, and another mentor, a tough, no nonsense New York

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City Police detective who had been trained
in hypnotic regression for criminal investigation but was

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also a crack UFO researcher. And
the words that I said to my mother

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were, Mom, Helen, and
I just saw some things in the sky

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that looked like flying saucers from the
movies. I should say here that my

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mother, although she did not remember
this, many years later, when Helen

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and I sat down with her and
my dad to talk to them about this,

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she made an extraordinarily wise decision.
She looked at me seriously and didn't

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say anything, and I thought to
myself, this is the way grown ups

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look at each other. I have
interviewed more people than I can remember who

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as adults, reflect back on when
my kid came to me and said something

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like that, My reaction was,
oh, honey, you just thought it

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looked like that, or a child
who has grown up reflecting on My parents

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put me down, you know,
either because they couldn't handle it or they

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didn't believe me. But my sister
later that afternoon said do you want to

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talk about this? And I said
no, And within a matter of weeks

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I had, however, we do
these things, Martin, not even convinced

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myself that it didn't happen. I
forgot about it, and absolutely nothing rattled

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it loose until fourteen and a half
years later, when that memory came roaring

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back in an undeniable fashion, and
I was compelled to telephone my sister after

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thinking through what I would say,
and had at least the foresight to say,

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I've remembered something from childhood and I
need to know what you remember.

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But I feel if I tell you
what I remember, I'll never know you'll

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say yes or no, and I'll
never know in my heart if you really

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had the same memory. And I
decided to set the scene the weather where

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we were standing in relationship to each
other on the front lawn, the time

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of year it was, and she
stopped me mid sent since it stop,

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I know what you're talking about.
Confirmed the memory, except she wasn't sure

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whether it was five or six,
which we very quickly worked out the next

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day, because that afternoon I did
a painting of six of them so that

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I could hold my hand over one
when I showed it to her the next

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day, and she realized it was
five because it was a very precise balanced

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V, so it have had to
have been an odd number. And then

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she said something to me that changed
my life forever, which was, but

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there's more, and I don't know
if you're going to like it, and

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went on to describe what now.
I would say, I've heard variations on

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very close variations on not dozens,
but I'm sure several hundred times over the

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decades of memories of somebody being taken
and a board a craft. This was

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more than forty years ago that we
had this discussion, and the term gray

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was not being used, but she
described archetypical grays accompanying her a tall one,

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then being on a table being examined. And my career that I had

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dreamt of since I was young,
of being an artist in New York City,

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began to lose meaning to me immediately, and I resented the hell out

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of it. That was all I
wanted to be and I was in the

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process of beginning to live that dream. But something obsessed me from that point

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on was more important, and it
was this subject and this work, And

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here we are talking about it all
these years later, Peter, when you

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said it came rushing back to you. What triggered that, What in particular

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made that happen. Yeah, that's
a very important question. I think a

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combination of things. As a painter
was teaching painting at my alma mater at

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the time, the School of Visual
Arts, figure drawing and painting and general

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painting, and as is part of
your job as an instructor, you hire

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models, often figure models, and
I hadn't a figure model that I had

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really fallen head over heels for and
asked her out after we were done with

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our three weeks of work. It
would be very inappropriate to do so before

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she told me that she had a
boyfriend. But I think, kind of

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feeling a little sorry for me,
said, but I did something recently that

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I really got a lot out of. It was called est. I had

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never heard of this or Human Potential
Workshop, but I thought, whatever it

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is, I'll do it, and
who knows, maybe she'll come around.

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She did not, But I had
done it some weeks before and was kind

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of opened up in a way that
I hadn't been. Also, this would

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have been in February of nineteen seventy
five. I lived down in New York's

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Chinatown, in off the beaten tourist
strip area more working class Chinese, and

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in the old days before Mayor Giuliani
band fireworks or officially cracked down on it,

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they looked the other way up until
then. It's a five thousand year

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plus part of the tradition of Chinese
New Year. You don't sleep much.

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It was forty eight hours of explosions
and smelling cordite. Also, a former

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girlfriend of mine who I remained friends
with, had done an extraordinary thing for

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me. My grandmother had saved several
dozen drawings I did from the age of

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about six up until about fourteen,
the time that this had happened, and

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gave them back to me and Peggy, who did layout paste up work,

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and in the old days it was
on ascetate. Said I've got a lot

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of acetate from my last job.
Let me take those drawings and in case

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them a acetate with electrical tape so
they won't break up. Some of them

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are on minimal of paper and fairly
fragile. And I was going through those

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drawings that afternoon. Again, nothing
with the subject matter, but the time

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frame I think most important of all. My mind was just ready to deal

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with this memory. So it's nothing
really in particular that jarred it other than

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going through what you were seeing,
going through a period of time where you

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were doing drawings, and then you
look at the drawings again and that brought

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you back to that time frame,
and that's what made you that triggered the

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memory. Am I getting You didn't
come through very clearly on that last part.

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Say it again. So you're saying
that that's kind of exploring your past?

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Is how that kind of triggered that? Well, again, I think

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I think I'm making just an educated
guest here that it was a combination of

207
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things. Having done a workshop that
I didn't sleep much through a lot of

208
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ideas being presented to me. A
little sleep deprived over that previous days because

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of the Chinese New Year, looking
at drawings that I had done from that

210
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period, and again most important,
I think my mind was just ready to

211
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deal with it and the memory came
roaring back. I see wow. And

212
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so it's funny how you're not the
first person that's told me that they've pushed

213
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the memory away. There's so many
people have said that. I'm sure you've

214
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talked to a number of people that
have done the same thing, indeed,

215
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And I think that's up. When
there's any like major trauma in someone's life,

216
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you can either do that or not. And oh yeah, it happens

217
00:18:56,160 --> 00:19:03,440
regularly with much more and very magic
conventional traumas the death of the loved parent,

218
00:19:03,240 --> 00:19:10,079
abuse, psychological or sexual, any
number of things that one would naturally

219
00:19:10,119 --> 00:19:14,599
want to put out of your mind
as a young person. I've heard the

220
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saying if you push it down and'll
come out sideways. So and that's for

221
00:19:22,440 --> 00:19:27,599
about anything. So, so time
goes on. You work with Bud.

222
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We did have a question come in
from the chat. I'm sorry, not

223
00:19:30,799 --> 00:19:34,839
from the chat from an email earlier, who actually wanted you to talk a

224
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little bit about working with Bud.
And Bud Hopkins interesting man, great man.

225
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And I still I follow his artwork. I really like his abstract work.

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Um, I see it come up
at auction all the time. Yeah.

227
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And uh, But anyway, I
know you're really really close friends with

228
00:19:56,519 --> 00:20:02,000
him, and he was a real
law to the community when he when he

229
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passed away. But someone wanted to
know what your more interesting moments were working

230
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with him. Well, there were
many, the memory returned in nineteen seventy

231
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five. But and I met in
nineteen seventy six when he published his very

232
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first article on his very first UFO
investigation, which I read. Was extremely

233
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impressed with his methodical following through on
this case, with the fact that he

234
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was a wonderful writer. The New
York art world is fairly small, and

235
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I knew there was a late period
abstract expressionist by that same name and same

236
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spelling whose work I've seen in a
group show a few years before. And

237
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I found him in the phone book
and I called him, introduced myself as

238
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a fellow artist with an interest in
this subject. We met for coffee a

239
00:21:02,200 --> 00:21:07,319
few days later and sat at his
kitchen table down in the Chelsea District in

240
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New York talked about art, life
and UFOs, not without some irony the

241
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title of his wonderful memoir last book
that he wrote, and I had no

242
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idea it'd be the first of hundreds
and hundreds of such talks at that table

243
00:21:22,000 --> 00:21:27,079
over the next decades. This was
still five years before he published his very

244
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first UFO book, Missing Time,
which really was a game changer, exploring

245
00:21:33,480 --> 00:21:40,680
the abduction phenomena, which overall was
the last thing that most ufologists wanted to

246
00:21:41,079 --> 00:21:45,839
be associated with at the time.
The ridicule factor of just being an adult

247
00:21:45,440 --> 00:21:53,640
who studied UFOs was rough enough without
discussing or focusing on the occupants. And

248
00:21:55,680 --> 00:22:00,480
after that book came out as a
painter, his life changed considerably and he

249
00:22:00,519 --> 00:22:04,119
became quite well known in the field
of UFO studies. But in nineteen and

250
00:22:04,200 --> 00:22:08,200
I began to work for him part
time as people began to write to him.

251
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I also it accelerated after nineteen eighty
seven with the publication of his true

252
00:22:17,720 --> 00:22:23,119
international bestseller Intruders, the story of
a young woman who lived in Cocomo,

253
00:22:23,200 --> 00:22:29,359
Indiana, who had lifelong experiences and
focusing in on a very particular aspect of

254
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it. She is still a dear
friend and I still stay in contact with

255
00:22:33,079 --> 00:22:40,839
her. I responded over those decades
to several thousand letters from people around the

256
00:22:40,839 --> 00:22:45,160
world, around the country, always
with a handwritten note, but insisted on

257
00:22:45,240 --> 00:22:53,119
that and ultimately began to assist him
in investigations besides filing and sitting in as

258
00:22:53,119 --> 00:22:59,880
a witness on regressive hypnotic sessions that
he had been very well trained to conduct.

259
00:23:00,279 --> 00:23:07,119
But as to you're the question,
if there was one case that was

260
00:23:07,160 --> 00:23:11,160
the most compelling, the most memorable, the one that I was most involved

261
00:23:11,200 --> 00:23:18,480
in. That began in nineteen eighty
nine with a letter from a woman named

262
00:23:18,480 --> 00:23:25,160
Linda who lived in Lower Manhattan,
and it was not actually until around Thanksgiving

263
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that she came in to actually sit
down and meet with Bud. The case

264
00:23:32,039 --> 00:23:37,240
was the most extraordinary one I've ever
studied, I've ever been involved in.

265
00:23:37,359 --> 00:23:42,920
I've ever seen so much credible information
round and it became known as the Brooklyn

266
00:23:42,960 --> 00:23:49,160
Bridge UFO case. Wow, and
I know exactly when you're talking about.

267
00:23:49,359 --> 00:23:52,519
Yeah, I'd love to you to
go into detail in that case if you

268
00:23:52,559 --> 00:24:02,799
would. Yeah, Well, the
most the event that sent us into a

269
00:24:02,880 --> 00:24:07,240
life changing investigation, and it lasted
six years. The book Witnessed The True

270
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Story of the Brooklyn Bidge Ufo Abductions
was published in nineteen ninety six and Linda,

271
00:24:15,839 --> 00:24:22,680
as is the case with people who
have these experiences, became aware one

272
00:24:22,759 --> 00:24:29,200
night that she was levitating above her
bed in her nightgam and was then floated

273
00:24:29,240 --> 00:24:36,319
through a solid glass window I believe
twelve stories up with a number of small

274
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beings taken into a craft which then
took off. This is all happening within

275
00:24:41,680 --> 00:24:45,359
very close proximity to the Brooklyn Bridge
on the East River, and the craft

276
00:24:45,440 --> 00:24:52,160
dived into the river. And then
the story continued further out on a beach

277
00:24:52,160 --> 00:24:56,880
on Long Island, and that was
just the beginning of it. Linda remains

278
00:24:56,920 --> 00:25:00,640
a very dear friend. We're back
and forth sometimes several times a week.

279
00:25:02,640 --> 00:25:10,839
She's a remarkable woman. And the
thing that really got to me as a

280
00:25:10,920 --> 00:25:17,720
very pragmatic investigator, and Bud was
too, was Bud began to get letters

281
00:25:18,359 --> 00:25:22,200
from people in different parts of Greater
New York who had observed this. Now

282
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it happened about two in the morning, but New York never sleeps and downtown.

283
00:25:27,839 --> 00:25:33,759
There's a lot of businesses going on. The letters were all in different

284
00:25:33,799 --> 00:25:40,400
handwritings, different postmarks. Most of
them contain drawings. And as two trained

285
00:25:40,519 --> 00:25:47,519
artists looking at drawings that were done
with effort, with seriousness, with high

286
00:25:47,519 --> 00:25:53,079
intention by so many different people,
and seeing the same shapes, the same

287
00:25:53,079 --> 00:25:59,759
color schemes, the same descriptions,
the same shock of I thought they were

288
00:25:59,799 --> 00:26:03,720
making a movie. Um, what
happened? Mister Hopkins? Can you tell

289
00:26:03,799 --> 00:26:08,039
us? I think it's one of
the most important books and one of the

290
00:26:08,039 --> 00:26:15,039
most challenging books that will ever exist
in the abduction literature, And for anybody

291
00:26:15,079 --> 00:26:22,200
who's a serious student of the subject
or just interested in jumping in to an

292
00:26:22,240 --> 00:26:30,119
extraordinarily well researched and investigated case,
this is a must for your library.

293
00:26:30,119 --> 00:26:37,039
Now, wasn't there someone, I
want to say, like a witness,

294
00:26:37,000 --> 00:26:41,599
there was something who I was born
to secrecy for some time, who but

295
00:26:41,759 --> 00:26:51,400
actually met with, and Linda certainly
met with whom was at the time the

296
00:26:51,480 --> 00:26:56,920
Secretary General of the United States of
the United Nations, a reason that many

297
00:26:56,960 --> 00:27:03,559
skeptics immediately dismissed the story. It
can't be, therefore it isn't. Therefore

298
00:27:03,720 --> 00:27:07,039
it's delusional or a lie or what
have you. But indeed it was,

299
00:27:07,720 --> 00:27:18,279
and he was downtown possibly on Alasania, two security people with an affair with

300
00:27:18,359 --> 00:27:19,759
a woman or what have you.
I don't know what he was doing there

301
00:27:19,759 --> 00:27:26,119
at two in the morning, but
the two security people became very involved in

302
00:27:26,160 --> 00:27:30,559
the story as well, and one
of them, once again, you can't

303
00:27:30,599 --> 00:27:37,400
well, you can't make the stuff
up, but nobody did. Here had

304
00:27:37,440 --> 00:27:41,480
been brought together with Linda when they
were children, and they remembered each other.

305
00:27:42,079 --> 00:27:48,400
It's an incredibly emotional story and it's
a good thing. Bud took a

306
00:27:48,559 --> 00:27:52,960
full six years to back it up
with the kind of evidence that you would

307
00:27:52,000 --> 00:27:59,720
find in a capital case in a
court of law. Again, the whole

308
00:27:59,720 --> 00:28:03,839
of auction phenomena is so difficult to
wrap our heads around. I have been

309
00:28:03,839 --> 00:28:08,920
looking at it from different angles,
and with Bud had the privilege of being

310
00:28:11,200 --> 00:28:15,039
a bug on the wall at his
shoulder, working directly with speaking directly with

311
00:28:17,039 --> 00:28:22,319
so many individuals that had had this
happen, speaking with family members, medical

312
00:28:22,359 --> 00:28:26,240
and mental health professionals that had worked
with these people, who at a certain

313
00:28:26,319 --> 00:28:34,720
point through their hands up about any
possible conventional, remotely conventional explanations governing this

314
00:28:34,839 --> 00:28:41,240
phenomena, but it is real.
It happens to more people than most of

315
00:28:41,319 --> 00:28:45,160
us are comfortable even thinking about,
and it continues to happen to them to

316
00:28:45,240 --> 00:28:51,319
this day. Strange. So,
so, after you know Bod's gone,

317
00:28:52,279 --> 00:28:57,720
did you stay involved in any part
of that aspect of this field or due

318
00:28:57,759 --> 00:29:03,680
to just move on to your own
now? Absolutely, I got involved because

319
00:29:03,720 --> 00:29:14,079
it happened to my sister, and
I realized that it was very important work

320
00:29:15,839 --> 00:29:21,240
being a humanist and having the right
temperament for this. Having worked for eight

321
00:29:21,319 --> 00:29:27,799
years in New York City as a
crisis intervention volunteer and shift supervisor on the

322
00:29:27,799 --> 00:29:34,240
busiest suicide hotline in the United States, I am good working under stress with

323
00:29:34,400 --> 00:29:41,079
people who are sometimes at their wits
end. No, it just continued as

324
00:29:41,079 --> 00:29:45,680
a threat in my life and it
does to this day. Not a week

325
00:29:45,720 --> 00:29:51,039
passes where I don't hear from somebody
who knows that I will keep their confidence,

326
00:29:51,519 --> 00:29:55,279
be a good listener, respect what
they're saying, do my best if

327
00:29:55,279 --> 00:30:00,319
possible, to refer them to an
appropriate professional if there's one remotely in their

328
00:30:00,359 --> 00:30:06,799
area, or reassure them that they
are not crazy. And we lost Bud

329
00:30:06,920 --> 00:30:11,079
in August of twenty eleven to cancer
at the age of eighty, and no

330
00:30:11,160 --> 00:30:17,279
day passes where I don't miss him
right right. One thing I want to

331
00:30:17,319 --> 00:30:22,359
make clear to the listener out there
is when you say you're kindly working with

332
00:30:22,440 --> 00:30:27,160
Bud and you're kindly helping people,
you're not doing this for money or that's

333
00:30:27,200 --> 00:30:30,599
the thing that people get confused about. A lot of people think that,

334
00:30:32,519 --> 00:30:34,039
you know, you guys do this
for the money or something like that.

335
00:30:34,079 --> 00:30:37,599
And it's kind of a joke,
isn't it. It is, and it

336
00:30:37,599 --> 00:30:44,200
would be funny if it wasn't so
insulting. However, in nineteen eighty nine,

337
00:30:44,799 --> 00:30:49,720
Bud founded a nonprofit foundation called the
Intruders Foundation. It had several mandates

338
00:30:51,160 --> 00:30:56,359
to work with and assist people who
had had these experiences, to support them

339
00:30:56,359 --> 00:31:00,960
in every way possible, to have
outreach program, bring speakers to New York

340
00:31:02,000 --> 00:31:07,119
on the subject, and to do
what we could to educate a broader part

341
00:31:07,160 --> 00:31:11,920
of the public. This was all
volunteer work. For me. I made

342
00:31:11,920 --> 00:31:18,240
my living as a painting instructor,
a painter and doing whatever. However,

343
00:31:18,359 --> 00:31:27,519
there came a time a year or
so later when a wealthy supporter whose name

344
00:31:27,559 --> 00:31:32,319
I know, but I don't know
if it's it's fair to say. Gave

345
00:31:33,000 --> 00:31:37,440
some several thousand dollars to continue the
work, and Bud said, congratulations,

346
00:31:37,480 --> 00:31:40,960
you are now professional. I'm going
to pay you eight dollars an hour.

347
00:31:41,640 --> 00:31:45,319
So I did get paid eight dollars
an hour. For almost a year,

348
00:31:45,559 --> 00:31:49,279
that salary was up to ten dollars
an hour, and I'm not hiding the

349
00:31:49,319 --> 00:31:52,079
fact. And then we ran out
of money. And for the rest of

350
00:31:52,119 --> 00:31:57,440
his life, I continued on as
a volunteer. Oh that's really funny.

351
00:31:57,400 --> 00:32:01,319
Yeah, so I wasn't it for
the money. Yeah, that's right,

352
00:32:01,480 --> 00:32:07,680
that's right, And what I hope
I'm not calling attention wrongly. But the

353
00:32:07,799 --> 00:32:12,319
books behind you, are those anything
to do with UFOs and research or is

354
00:32:12,319 --> 00:32:15,880
that just other types of art books
or something. No, most of the

355
00:32:15,920 --> 00:32:20,680
books in my study here, and
I am a bibliophile. I've loved books

356
00:32:20,720 --> 00:32:23,240
since I was a kid. I
collect books. But most of the books

357
00:32:23,240 --> 00:32:28,920
in this room that I do my
work in are related to the subject.

358
00:32:28,960 --> 00:32:34,960
And let me just take a moment. This is for YouTube listeners, of

359
00:32:34,960 --> 00:32:40,559
course. That is a big library. Wow, it's actually just a painted

360
00:32:40,599 --> 00:32:51,880
backdrop to make me look Yeah,
isn't that great? Wow, thanks for

361
00:32:51,920 --> 00:32:59,960
showing us that. That's great.
I started collecting UFO books in only about

362
00:33:00,079 --> 00:33:01,680
five years ago, so I don't
have much of a collection. I have

363
00:33:02,359 --> 00:33:07,160
my house has libraries, though,
several libraries. So one of the reasons

364
00:33:07,160 --> 00:33:12,039
I think we get along as famously
as we do. Yeah, right,

365
00:33:12,079 --> 00:33:15,039
I wish more people regarded books as
we did, and I wish more people

366
00:33:15,119 --> 00:33:19,119
read I looked, right. I
like the look of books too. I

367
00:33:19,200 --> 00:33:22,240
like the look of like a nice
leather bound book on a shelf. Yeah.

368
00:33:22,279 --> 00:33:30,680
I think we're a little off topic. So so now what tell the

369
00:33:30,759 --> 00:33:35,480
listening ardience if you would? How
you then carried over and I want to

370
00:33:35,519 --> 00:33:40,519
talk a little bit about left at
Eastgate. So did I say that right?

371
00:33:42,200 --> 00:33:45,480
Yeah? Yeah? So but how
did you how did you progress?

372
00:33:47,039 --> 00:33:52,160
How did things progress to get to
that point where you started? You got

373
00:33:52,160 --> 00:33:59,000
involved with Larry Warren and started on
that venture. In nineteen eighty seven,

374
00:33:59,119 --> 00:34:05,720
it was the fortieth anniversary of Roswell, the Kenneth Arnold Sightings, the fourtieth

375
00:34:05,720 --> 00:34:12,960
anniversary the Modern Age of UFO Sightings, and the Mutual UFO Network mouf ON,

376
00:34:13,159 --> 00:34:19,920
the largest UFO organization in the world. Based in this country had a

377
00:34:19,960 --> 00:34:24,360
particularly memorable conference. It was held
at American University in Washington, DC,

378
00:34:25,199 --> 00:34:30,880
and I attended it with a friend, and among the speakers was this young

379
00:34:30,920 --> 00:34:37,360
man who purported to be a witness
to a case that first broke in this

380
00:34:37,480 --> 00:34:43,440
country, well, first broke in
England where it happened and around the world

381
00:34:43,480 --> 00:34:51,840
simultaneously, of course, in late
nineteen eighty three, and I had followed

382
00:34:51,880 --> 00:34:57,960
the case ever since. It still
stands as Great Britain's best known and I

383
00:34:58,000 --> 00:35:04,920
think most significant UFO incident, and
his talk was very compelling. We met,

384
00:35:05,519 --> 00:35:07,679
I should say I wasn't a speaker
there, but I was a panel

385
00:35:07,719 --> 00:35:15,519
discussion about the abduction phenomena that was
being chaired by doctor David Jacobs, a

386
00:35:15,639 --> 00:35:22,199
historian from Temple University and a well
known abduction researcher. And I was there

387
00:35:22,480 --> 00:35:30,199
in a double spirit as the assistant
A Bud Hopkins, and as somebody that

388
00:35:30,280 --> 00:35:34,960
grew up with an abductee in the
family. My future co author heard me

389
00:35:35,480 --> 00:35:38,280
and decided I was the person he
wanted to write a book with about his

390
00:35:38,840 --> 00:35:45,440
incident, and we met in the
hallway rather inadvertently on the Sunday. Decided

391
00:35:45,760 --> 00:35:50,039
I decided I wanted to do an
interview with him. I didn't know he

392
00:35:50,119 --> 00:35:53,800
had any intention of writing a book, but I was twelve years into the

393
00:35:53,800 --> 00:36:00,800
work at that point and starting to
think about a more in depth project.

394
00:36:00,840 --> 00:36:06,159
I had had articles published by that
time, I certainly had spoken at conferences,

395
00:36:06,800 --> 00:36:09,719
and I probably would have ended up
writing a book, not surprisingly on

396
00:36:09,760 --> 00:36:15,559
the abduction phenomena, possibly about working
with Bud and the like. And he

397
00:36:15,599 --> 00:36:21,599
came to my apartment the next weekend
made his proposal. I took it at

398
00:36:21,639 --> 00:36:25,440
face value, accepted, and we
began to work on a book that took

399
00:36:25,559 --> 00:36:36,119
us nine years until completion and was
published in nineteen ninety seven. Yeah,

400
00:36:36,559 --> 00:36:40,960
it did moderately well in this country. Rarely do UFO books really take off

401
00:36:42,000 --> 00:36:45,920
here, but it did very well
in the United Kingdom, and over the

402
00:36:45,960 --> 00:36:53,440
next years I lectured on the subject, certainly with him on my own,

403
00:36:54,760 --> 00:37:00,199
continued to research it, continued to
return to the area. I was fascinated

404
00:37:00,239 --> 00:37:07,679
by this particular incident and all of
its permutations, and it was not until

405
00:37:07,000 --> 00:37:15,079
a little over two years ago that
his account started to unravel. I went

406
00:37:15,119 --> 00:37:19,960
into some very serious denial about it. I rejected the possibility that I could

407
00:37:19,960 --> 00:37:25,039
have been taken in by somebody who
was telling me half truths, confabulations,

408
00:37:25,119 --> 00:37:32,679
lies, as well as whatever of
his account was true. But people started

409
00:37:32,679 --> 00:37:37,719
to do their own investigations and started
to write to me with increasing frustration,

410
00:37:38,960 --> 00:37:44,840
until I began to look at this
material, and, much to my embarrassment,

411
00:37:45,360 --> 00:37:52,239
horror, sadness, I realized that
at the least a good deal of

412
00:37:52,239 --> 00:37:57,119
what he had told me that I
had believed, that I had not double

413
00:37:57,239 --> 00:38:01,599
checked on certain things that I had
taken his word for, were unfortunately true,

414
00:38:04,000 --> 00:38:07,440
and that he was in no way
the person that I thought he was.

415
00:38:08,000 --> 00:38:13,800
Beginning a period of time which certainly
was the roughest I've ever had in

416
00:38:13,840 --> 00:38:19,360
what I'll laughingly call my career in
uphology, I have spent a good part

417
00:38:19,360 --> 00:38:22,960
of the last year and a half
making amends with as many of the people

418
00:38:23,079 --> 00:38:30,400
who I ultimately wronged or cut off
as friends or misled our readers about,

419
00:38:32,639 --> 00:38:38,440
and in some respects I will probably
never live it down, and that's the

420
00:38:38,440 --> 00:38:44,840
way it is. I've been through
worse in my life. But when it

421
00:38:44,960 --> 00:38:51,480
all finally blew up early last year, I had to call it to the

422
00:38:51,519 --> 00:38:59,599
attention of our publisher who republished this
book in two thousand and five in an

423
00:38:59,599 --> 00:39:04,280
expect and the edition. Alex Daki
is his name. He's a lovely man.

424
00:39:04,480 --> 00:39:09,679
He runs a company called Cosimo Books
in New York City. We had

425
00:39:09,679 --> 00:39:15,079
become good friends over the years,
and it was with a lot of sadness

426
00:39:15,119 --> 00:39:19,639
I had to tell him that he
needed to conduct his own investigation and if

427
00:39:19,639 --> 00:39:22,800
he had come, if he came
to the same conclusions I had, that

428
00:39:23,440 --> 00:39:30,400
this book needed to be removed from
publication, which saddened me more than I

429
00:39:30,400 --> 00:39:34,320
can say. I will always stand
by the parts of the book that are

430
00:39:34,400 --> 00:39:42,039
mine that were not influenced or working
on information that I believed was real and

431
00:39:42,199 --> 00:39:49,239
was not. And in fact,
they began their own investigation last October.

432
00:39:49,320 --> 00:39:52,559
They completed it in January, at
which point a press release went out that

433
00:39:52,639 --> 00:39:55,920
the book was going out of print. It will never be in print again.

434
00:39:57,639 --> 00:40:05,159
Before that, I my own removed
two follow up books that I wrote,

435
00:40:06,079 --> 00:40:12,280
once again supporting my former co author's
account. One a digital book that

436
00:40:12,400 --> 00:40:16,760
was put online four hundred and fifty
pages, most of which was just raw

437
00:40:16,880 --> 00:40:28,960
documentation, and a follow up book
that really was focused on defaming the deputy

438
00:40:28,960 --> 00:40:34,760
based commander Charles I Halt, whose
life I helped to make rather miserable for

439
00:40:35,599 --> 00:40:42,119
more than twenty five years. I
am glad to say he and I have

440
00:40:42,880 --> 00:40:46,400
He has accepted my apologies. We
have been in contact. I only wish

441
00:40:46,480 --> 00:40:51,400
him the best. He knows how
I feel about what has happened, and

442
00:40:52,360 --> 00:40:58,840
life goes on. Wow, Peter, First of all, that is gracious

443
00:40:58,840 --> 00:41:02,519
of you to apologize, and you
know I've talked to what's gracious. It

444
00:41:02,599 --> 00:41:06,840
was the only thing to do.
I'm sorry to say many people are not

445
00:41:06,960 --> 00:41:12,519
in the habit of mid admitting publicly
that they have made extremely embarrassing error.

446
00:41:12,639 --> 00:41:16,119
And that's a shame. It's partly
a guy think, but that's not the

447
00:41:16,159 --> 00:41:21,360
way I was brought up. It
was the only decision to follow. Well,

448
00:41:21,400 --> 00:41:24,960
you know, you were you were
betrayed. You're only human. You

449
00:41:25,079 --> 00:41:30,679
believed in someone and they betrayed you. And I'm really sorry for that.

450
00:41:30,880 --> 00:41:36,719
And all those accounts that I've heard
Charles Halt say, you know he never

451
00:41:36,760 --> 00:41:42,280
remembers Larry being there. So let
me try to get this straight. To

452
00:41:42,320 --> 00:41:45,960
back up just a little bit.
Do you believe that Larry just went by

453
00:41:46,159 --> 00:41:51,599
all the hearsay when the people came, you know, the his fellow military

454
00:41:51,679 --> 00:41:54,800
people were talking about the story behind
the scenes. Do you think he just

455
00:41:54,840 --> 00:41:59,599
picked up everything and then he went
public with it? How did all that

456
00:41:59,639 --> 00:42:02,079
come up about? How did he
come up with his side of the false

457
00:42:02,199 --> 00:42:07,679
story, so to speak? Well, that's something we could do quite a

458
00:42:07,760 --> 00:42:10,800
number of shows in a row on. At this point, Martin, I

459
00:42:10,800 --> 00:42:15,519
don't even know what to think about
so much of what he put on the

460
00:42:15,559 --> 00:42:20,679
record. By some accounts, he
was out there, By others he was

461
00:42:20,760 --> 00:42:27,519
not. The fact that he knew
certain things does not necessarily mean that he

462
00:42:27,599 --> 00:42:34,559
was involved in them. But I
don't know. And as I wrote in

463
00:42:34,599 --> 00:42:39,440
a very long polemic about this that
anybody interested ken read by going to my

464
00:42:39,559 --> 00:42:46,639
website Peter Robbins NY as in New
York Peter Robbins ny dot com Front and

465
00:42:46,719 --> 00:42:52,920
Center, you will have an opportunity
to read a very long response piece that

466
00:42:52,960 --> 00:43:00,679
I wrote on this and published last
June. I have to leave this work,

467
00:43:01,519 --> 00:43:09,440
and again I should doubly say here
that this does not affect the reality

468
00:43:09,480 --> 00:43:16,400
of the incident, which most certainly
happened was extraordinarily significant, involved many credible

469
00:43:17,159 --> 00:43:22,880
witnesses. First among them one of
the witnesses on the first night, John

470
00:43:22,920 --> 00:43:27,480
Burrows. There were three nights.
Larry allegendies involved on the last night,

471
00:43:28,000 --> 00:43:32,440
who continues, I think to lead
this work and who spoke at a conference

472
00:43:32,559 --> 00:43:38,280
in Woodbridge, England, the closest
town to where these events happened, just

473
00:43:38,440 --> 00:43:45,599
this past weekend, along with other
pre eminent people involved in investigating the case.

474
00:43:46,159 --> 00:43:51,920
I am burned out on it,
and I feel I've lost and rightly

475
00:43:52,519 --> 00:43:59,719
the right to participate in continuing research
in this particular event, which at this

476
00:43:59,760 --> 00:44:05,119
point is fine with me. I
will always hope to return to that area.

477
00:44:05,199 --> 00:44:07,760
I'm hoping too next year. Some
of the dearest people in my life

478
00:44:07,760 --> 00:44:12,480
live in the area. It is
a fascinating part of England, only about

479
00:44:12,480 --> 00:44:17,320
seventy miles from London. Anybody interested
in the subject planning a visit there,

480
00:44:17,880 --> 00:44:22,360
they are welcome to contact me through
you. I will help them if I

481
00:44:22,440 --> 00:44:27,320
can to connect up with some friends
there who can take you to some of

482
00:44:27,360 --> 00:44:34,800
the locations. It's an extraordinarily important
event, and yes, I'm just not

483
00:44:34,920 --> 00:44:37,760
part of it anymore, except in
the respect that we're talking about. Yes,

484
00:44:38,400 --> 00:44:46,960
So, Peter, when this was
going on before you confronted Larry did

485
00:44:46,960 --> 00:44:52,199
you have like a gut feeling like
something was wrong for that you just tried

486
00:44:52,239 --> 00:44:57,280
to push away for a while,
And what actually made you say all of

487
00:44:57,320 --> 00:45:04,519
a sudden say okay, to have
to confront this. If one reads the

488
00:45:04,559 --> 00:45:08,199
book, and copies will always be
available as used books, or some of

489
00:45:08,199 --> 00:45:15,199
your listeners may have copies. Yeah, when you get to the part in

490
00:45:15,239 --> 00:45:19,599
the second half of the book that
is my first person account, you will

491
00:45:19,599 --> 00:45:24,920
read early on that I was unsure
at times, but I didn't trust my

492
00:45:25,000 --> 00:45:32,719
intuition. I felt the story was
that important and the rationale that carried me

493
00:45:32,840 --> 00:45:37,679
through to support him in so many
ways for so long, in part revolved

494
00:45:37,719 --> 00:45:44,440
around my belief that he was very
troubled by this, that he's suffering post

495
00:45:44,519 --> 00:45:50,639
traumatic stress, that there were people
out to bring him down, and he

496
00:45:50,800 --> 00:45:58,159
is nothing if not convincing, passionate, in fact, very charismatic, very

497
00:45:58,320 --> 00:46:07,159
likable when he wants to put that
out there. But it really came to

498
00:46:07,280 --> 00:46:10,480
a head a little less than for
me a little less than two years ago

499
00:46:12,159 --> 00:46:15,559
at a conference we were both supposed
to schedule to speak out in Glasgow,

500
00:46:15,639 --> 00:46:23,000
Scotland. We're literally in the last
few days leading to it, and it

501
00:46:23,079 --> 00:46:27,639
was going to be the first time
we had spoken together on the same stage

502
00:46:27,639 --> 00:46:34,639
and a decade which the organizer,
a great woman in Glasgow named Alison Dunlap,

503
00:46:35,199 --> 00:46:38,760
who worked long and hard to raise
the funds to bring us there and

504
00:46:38,840 --> 00:46:43,360
did a lot of work to create
an event that was going to culminate with

505
00:46:43,400 --> 00:46:47,840
an hour and a half talk by
us. That a woman posted a note

506
00:46:47,840 --> 00:46:52,880
to him on an appropriate Facebook thread
that she might be in the audience and

507
00:46:52,960 --> 00:46:55,920
if she did, if she was, that she was going to ask him

508
00:46:55,920 --> 00:47:01,480
a question that he might not like. His response, not uncommon for him,

509
00:47:01,559 --> 00:47:09,360
unfortunately, was to threaten her physically. Really, the conference was held

510
00:47:09,679 --> 00:47:14,800
at the University of Glasgow and she, I think very appropriately brought it to

511
00:47:14,840 --> 00:47:20,159
their attention. He was banned from
speaking at the conference, lied to my

512
00:47:20,199 --> 00:47:23,679
face about a number of things,
and then in follow up when I began

513
00:47:23,760 --> 00:47:29,239
to question him about specifics, he
refused to answer any of my questions,

514
00:47:30,280 --> 00:47:37,920
starting to threaten me, and that
was it enough. Already you will read

515
00:47:37,280 --> 00:47:44,239
what I wrote to him, imploring
him to deal with certain issues in his

516
00:47:44,320 --> 00:47:52,480
life and have the courage to admit
that he had misled people, but he

517
00:47:52,519 --> 00:47:55,440
would have none of it. And
I haven't been in touch with him in

518
00:47:57,760 --> 00:48:00,440
well, certainly more than a year
and a half in any manner is he

519
00:48:00,639 --> 00:48:07,840
Do you think that he's just denying, denying everything and just standing his ground.

520
00:48:08,360 --> 00:48:12,800
I think that's what he continues to
do, and frankly I could care

521
00:48:12,880 --> 00:48:17,760
less. Well, Um, it's
a What's really the shame about this,

522
00:48:19,400 --> 00:48:22,639
for the most part is all the
time and all the effort that you put

523
00:48:22,679 --> 00:48:27,199
into this because you believed in someone
you know, And that's really not your

524
00:48:27,239 --> 00:48:30,320
fault. It's really you know,
anyone can tend to do that. And

525
00:48:30,440 --> 00:48:36,360
uh, you know, I've I've
had conversations with Alejandro about this, and

526
00:48:36,880 --> 00:48:38,840
you know, it is a it's
a shame that you were taken in and

527
00:48:39,400 --> 00:48:45,760
I'm glad that you realized it and
you did something about it. So for

528
00:48:45,840 --> 00:48:53,000
you. Anybody that knows me knows
my character. M The only reason I

529
00:48:53,039 --> 00:48:58,880
got involved in this so many years
ago was to try to find out what

530
00:48:58,920 --> 00:49:04,199
had happened to my sister, to
try to understand the implications of this truly

531
00:49:04,239 --> 00:49:10,679
anomalous phenomena for humanity. And I
am the kind of person that can be

532
00:49:10,760 --> 00:49:15,000
fooled. What I would have never
imagined what I didn't imagine which One of

533
00:49:15,039 --> 00:49:19,800
the things that shocked me so much
was that by the time he met me,

534
00:49:20,000 --> 00:49:23,960
he already intended to deceive whomever it
was he was going to be working

535
00:49:23,960 --> 00:49:30,360
with, and by extension, are
thousands of readers. As a result.

536
00:49:30,440 --> 00:49:36,440
Some of the documentation, his official
documentation that he gave me, had been

537
00:49:36,480 --> 00:49:42,159
altered, which I simply didn't suspect
even for a moment. And there are

538
00:49:42,159 --> 00:49:54,800
other issues outside of the subject itself
that reflect character problems that for me,

539
00:49:55,639 --> 00:50:00,679
always enter into the matrix of who
you are. I've had people say,

540
00:50:00,679 --> 00:50:06,119
well, you know the fact that
he has dealt in rock and roll memorabilia

541
00:50:06,199 --> 00:50:10,039
that he is forged, which is
an absolute fact going back many years as

542
00:50:10,039 --> 00:50:15,039
well as yeah, yeah, as
well as the providence, the forged providence

543
00:50:15,079 --> 00:50:17,880
for it, and he's very good
at him. That shouldn't reflect on his

544
00:50:17,920 --> 00:50:22,159
account. Well, you know what, I disagree. When you don't tell

545
00:50:22,199 --> 00:50:27,320
the truth, you don't tell the
truth, and it can affect any area

546
00:50:27,320 --> 00:50:31,199
of your life. Yes, I
totally agree with that. Um, Well,

547
00:50:32,679 --> 00:50:37,000
anyway, we don't want to stay
stuck on this subject. I do

548
00:50:37,159 --> 00:50:40,639
believe that is a fantastic case.
It's it's right up there in the top

549
00:50:40,719 --> 00:50:45,719
five. I've said that very much, very important case. It's very convoluted

550
00:50:45,840 --> 00:50:52,199
too, and part of the convolution
was possibly the Larry Warren, you know,

551
00:50:52,320 --> 00:50:59,320
Larry Warren part of it, you
know. But anyway, that's that's

552
00:50:59,360 --> 00:51:05,199
over now. I'm glad also that
you did what you did with your publisher

553
00:51:05,400 --> 00:51:09,159
and removing the book, and you
know, you did things right, Peter,

554
00:51:09,280 --> 00:51:15,239
so that's all you can do.
You did things right. So anyway,

555
00:51:15,840 --> 00:51:20,400
we'll move on from that. We
had some questions come in and let

556
00:51:20,400 --> 00:51:25,000
me just pull one up that came
into my email and we will check chat

557
00:51:25,079 --> 00:51:30,239
later. Also, we're going to
take calls a little bit later. So

558
00:51:31,679 --> 00:51:39,239
Carrie wrote this question into me for
you. With privately run groups being established

559
00:51:39,920 --> 00:51:45,280
such as UPO tag UFO Data,
if they are able to capture scientific data

560
00:51:45,360 --> 00:51:51,079
that would prove anomalous activity in our
skies, do you think it would be

561
00:51:52,320 --> 00:51:55,719
would gain interest from traditional scientific groups
and promote interest in the study of the

562
00:51:55,760 --> 00:52:04,119
subject. That's an important question,
carry yes and no. One of the

563
00:52:04,199 --> 00:52:09,199
things I've ded delved into over the
decades and keep returning to is the power

564
00:52:09,239 --> 00:52:15,440
of ridicule relative to this subject,
which cuts across every line. It can

565
00:52:15,480 --> 00:52:20,679
affect everyday folks and very famous folks. Nobody likes to be made fun of,

566
00:52:20,800 --> 00:52:27,679
and in certain careers it can help
to destroy your career. Politics science

567
00:52:27,760 --> 00:52:36,039
being among them most people who think
of themselves as a serious, contributing member

568
00:52:36,119 --> 00:52:40,800
of our greater scientific community. Quote
unquote, No that there's nothing to the

569
00:52:40,880 --> 00:52:46,119
subject, because if there were,
they'd know they're scientists. Ask any of

570
00:52:46,119 --> 00:52:53,320
them if they've ever read a book
by Donald Kehoe or Bud Hopkins or Jacques

571
00:52:53,360 --> 00:53:01,880
Valet or John Mack or exactly MK
jessup, and of course they haven't.

572
00:53:01,920 --> 00:53:05,639
They're busy people and they're not going
to waste their time on this stuff.

573
00:53:06,800 --> 00:53:13,199
Some of them have closet interests,
but to go public with them no matter

574
00:53:13,559 --> 00:53:21,519
what the alleged evidence suggests, and
groups like UFO Update I think do us

575
00:53:21,559 --> 00:53:25,559
a service overall. However, the
Internet at large is a double edged sort,

576
00:53:27,079 --> 00:53:30,480
and it's one thing to show what
looks like brilliant footage of a truly

577
00:53:30,519 --> 00:53:36,639
anomalous craft, and then when you
start to dig down and find out that

578
00:53:36,920 --> 00:53:42,239
you really cannot pin down the person
who is alleged to have taken the photos,

579
00:53:42,679 --> 00:53:49,199
getting information on the location any other
witness, testimonies, photo analysis for

580
00:53:49,320 --> 00:53:53,599
it. These things begin to fall
apart. So I think we're still some

581
00:53:53,679 --> 00:54:00,360
ways off on that it may take
some extraordinary science fiction level event to wake

582
00:54:00,480 --> 00:54:08,599
people up, especially in the scientific
community. I absolutely understand why they feel

583
00:54:08,639 --> 00:54:16,760
this way, having done deep research
into the origins of the ridicule factor and

584
00:54:16,840 --> 00:54:23,480
a paper I'll be happy to forward
to you that delves into it at length

585
00:54:23,800 --> 00:54:31,360
and goes into detail about people who
were presidents, presidential candidates, leading political

586
00:54:31,440 --> 00:54:38,519
figures, billionaires, important people in
society, so to say, well known

587
00:54:38,559 --> 00:54:43,639
people, if not important, and
how every one of them was compelled to

588
00:54:43,679 --> 00:54:52,079
back down sooner or later because of
personal possibility of humiliation or the possibility of

589
00:54:52,119 --> 00:54:57,360
their career going down in flames.
Peter, just stepping back a little bit

590
00:54:57,400 --> 00:55:05,559
to the former topic. Do you
feel as though you are like a little

591
00:55:05,599 --> 00:55:10,719
trigger shy into doing another book or
do you think you'll you'll write more?

592
00:55:13,079 --> 00:55:15,320
Yeah, thank you. I'm working
on a book right now, and I'm

593
00:55:15,360 --> 00:55:22,119
glad to say I've just accepted an
invitation to begin writing regularly for one of

594
00:55:22,159 --> 00:55:30,280
my two favorite online related publications called
Outer Limits magazine that comes to us from

595
00:55:30,599 --> 00:55:36,000
the UK. It's right up there
with one that's been going on for longer

596
00:55:36,039 --> 00:55:40,280
called Phenomena Magazine, and I encourage
all of your listeners to subscribe. The

597
00:55:40,559 --> 00:55:45,320
subscriptions are free, there are no
strings attached. They don't do data mining.

598
00:55:47,480 --> 00:55:51,880
But I am working on a book
now, and yeah, it has

599
00:55:51,920 --> 00:55:59,960
made me maybe a little trigger shy
of accepting an extraordinary account at face value

600
00:56:00,039 --> 00:56:07,239
without doing well. I'm a different
person and more experienced than I was thirty

601
00:56:07,360 --> 00:56:12,880
years ago when I got involved in
this project. Most of my work,

602
00:56:12,920 --> 00:56:17,440
though, outside of this, has
not never really focused in on an individual

603
00:56:17,480 --> 00:56:25,760
account. They have to do with
moments in post war history where I can

604
00:56:25,840 --> 00:56:31,519
research in an archival manner through libraries, through out of print books, through

605
00:56:31,960 --> 00:56:38,719
interviews with people who knew people,
and that is more failsafe. It's longer,

606
00:56:38,800 --> 00:56:45,760
it's not a sexy it's definitely more
time consuming. But I've produced a

607
00:56:45,840 --> 00:56:49,599
lot of good work in that spirit, and a lot of it will be

608
00:56:49,719 --> 00:56:53,239
in this anthology book that will be
out some time later this year. Right,

609
00:56:53,840 --> 00:56:58,679
we're going to put the number up
on the Screenpeter, so we're going

610
00:56:58,760 --> 00:57:01,039
to invite people to call in.
If anyone wants to give a call and

611
00:57:01,280 --> 00:57:07,519
ask ask Peter a question. So
we'll get that up in just a second

612
00:57:07,559 --> 00:57:14,559
here. So what do you think
since this is something you and I have

613
00:57:14,719 --> 00:57:16,920
not had a chance to really talk
about, but what do you think has

614
00:57:17,079 --> 00:57:23,880
changed over the last several months since
the December sixteenth article came out, you

615
00:57:23,920 --> 00:57:28,719
know about the Pentagon researching UFOs.
What do you think has changed? Do

616
00:57:28,800 --> 00:57:35,639
you think it's a different world now, It's not a different world, but

617
00:57:36,159 --> 00:57:39,920
it definitely kind of hit an angle
and is moving off in a slightly different

618
00:57:39,920 --> 00:57:44,920
direction. What you're referring to,
for those who are not aware, is

619
00:57:45,039 --> 00:57:52,679
last December, the New York Times
published an article going into detail about a

620
00:57:52,760 --> 00:57:58,719
classified project that was funded by Congress
to the tune of twenty two million dollars,

621
00:57:59,119 --> 00:58:07,000
with leading Congress figures seriously involved in
it. Even though the story begins

622
00:58:07,440 --> 00:58:10,639
as a small box story, it
begins on the front page, which is

623
00:58:10,840 --> 00:58:15,119
very rare for the New York Times. I am probably the only person you

624
00:58:15,159 --> 00:58:21,079
will ever meet who has read every
single article, editorial, commentary, photo

625
00:58:21,199 --> 00:58:28,559
caption, letter to the editor political
cartoon about the subject of UFOs anomalous discs,

626
00:58:28,679 --> 00:58:31,039
flying saucers that has ever published in
the New York Times, so I

627
00:58:31,079 --> 00:58:37,079
am familiar with the way that they
work. It was followed on the interior

628
00:58:37,119 --> 00:58:44,679
section, making it a full page
with the accounts of two respected fighter pilots.

629
00:58:45,519 --> 00:58:49,679
And we have had credible accounts from
fighter pilots in this country and around

630
00:58:49,760 --> 00:58:59,079
the world for decades similar scenarios and
genuinely unknown object is cited over your territory.

631
00:58:59,159 --> 00:59:04,280
It fails to respond to a request
to identify it. Jets are scrambled,

632
00:59:04,679 --> 00:59:07,920
they get close enough to see often
that it is not anything conventional,

633
00:59:08,760 --> 00:59:14,239
and they are ordered to fire on
it. In every case that I am

634
00:59:14,280 --> 00:59:21,400
aware of where they have been,
their electronics go out, They make a

635
00:59:21,480 --> 00:59:23,239
quick move to return to base.
As soon as they turn around, everything

636
00:59:23,239 --> 00:59:28,800
comes back on. In many cases
they're ordered to go back at it again,

637
00:59:29,119 --> 00:59:36,039
same thing happens. I think there
were people, credible people, people

638
00:59:36,239 --> 00:59:40,400
with a public profile, as well
as a lot of regular folks who are

639
00:59:40,440 --> 00:59:47,800
waiting for something like this to appear
in print. In whether you know you're

640
00:59:47,840 --> 00:59:51,679
a liberal or conservative, whether you
love The New York Times, whether you

641
00:59:51,719 --> 00:59:59,519
hate The New York Times, it
is a major world publication. It's it

642
00:59:59,719 --> 01:00:06,840
kind gave more credence to how seriously. Certain elected officials in the know are

643
01:00:06,880 --> 01:00:12,280
about the subject, the fact that
the funding was made available as opposed to

644
01:00:12,360 --> 01:00:19,199
some mysterious black project that we can
speculate on. And I think it has

645
01:00:19,280 --> 01:00:25,079
caused more people to allow themselves the
luxury, if you will, of saying

646
01:00:25,119 --> 01:00:29,159
to somebody else, you know,
I think there is something to this subject

647
01:00:29,199 --> 01:00:34,159
now. I wasn't sure before,
but now I'm more interested. One thing

648
01:00:34,199 --> 01:00:38,519
I can tell you speaking at conferences
and networking with people regularly here and abroad,

649
01:00:39,400 --> 01:00:45,159
especially over the last six or eight
years. Every year more and more

650
01:00:45,239 --> 01:00:51,639
people, and interestingly many of them
in the fifty to seventy demographic twenty and

651
01:00:51,679 --> 01:00:57,760
thirty something folks overall do take the
subject seriously, but they've got a lot

652
01:00:57,760 --> 01:01:00,760
of other things on their plate.
What I'm trying to say is more and

653
01:01:00,840 --> 01:01:07,800
more people care less and less what
other people think about what they think about

654
01:01:07,800 --> 01:01:13,519
the subject, and that is important. That is a sea change for me.

655
01:01:14,960 --> 01:01:19,320
And I'm seeing and speaking to more
and more of these people again via

656
01:01:19,400 --> 01:01:23,679
social networking, people who write me
on email, contact me on my Facebook

657
01:01:23,719 --> 01:01:29,800
page, or who I meet and
get to know sometimes at conferences here and

658
01:01:29,800 --> 01:01:35,079
abroad. Yes, Peter, we
had all call in, but I didn't

659
01:01:35,079 --> 01:01:37,719
want to interrupt you. So just
to let the people out there know if

660
01:01:37,719 --> 01:01:40,960
you call in, what I'm going
to do is you'll come in, but

661
01:01:42,039 --> 01:01:44,880
I'll be putting you on hold and
You're just going to have to wait until

662
01:01:44,920 --> 01:01:52,519
I introduce you. So I encourage
the caller to call back. And so

663
01:01:52,960 --> 01:01:58,159
the change there was actually something I
wanted to talk to Alejandro about because George

664
01:01:58,159 --> 01:02:04,000
and appted this report with this I
Team report the other day where they going

665
01:02:04,039 --> 01:02:07,119
back to the tik tak back in
two thousand and four on the Nimitsu.

666
01:02:07,519 --> 01:02:14,800
He was able to get some documents
that were very very interesting. They were

667
01:02:14,880 --> 01:02:21,039
talking about the data that was used, the equipment that was used. One

668
01:02:21,079 --> 01:02:24,719
in particular, it could track a
golf ball at one hundred miles. Then

669
01:02:24,760 --> 01:02:30,320
they were all focusing on this object
and it was reacting. It was reacting

670
01:02:30,360 --> 01:02:36,320
to day Fraver, the pilot.
The one thing that was very clear in

671
01:02:36,320 --> 01:02:39,760
this which was really interesting because there
was some confusion I thought there was,

672
01:02:39,760 --> 01:02:46,199
was when the when the item,
the tech tak so to speak, hovered

673
01:02:46,639 --> 01:02:52,320
shot down to like fifty feet above
the water. It was actually hovering over

674
01:02:52,400 --> 01:02:57,480
an object down in the water that
looked about one hundred yards across. So

675
01:02:57,519 --> 01:03:01,679
this is all documents that came on
government documents that George Knapp is working on.

676
01:03:02,239 --> 01:03:06,679
Yes, so, and that's available. You can just search Google and

677
01:03:06,719 --> 01:03:10,400
you can see it's actually on my
website. I've posted the video of the

678
01:03:12,079 --> 01:03:15,559
report on podcast UFO dot com for
anyone wants to check that out. In

679
01:03:15,679 --> 01:03:23,079
terms of serious investigators, and I
don't mean self trained investigators writers like me,

680
01:03:23,159 --> 01:03:29,440
I mean real journalists, you can't
get any better than George. Now,

681
01:03:29,599 --> 01:03:32,400
I agree, Yeah, I agree. Hats off to him and he

682
01:03:32,960 --> 01:03:36,239
does not like compliments, by the
way. I don't know if you've ever

683
01:03:36,320 --> 01:03:43,119
noticed that, Sorry George. Yeah, okay, I'm just typing in.

684
01:03:43,159 --> 01:03:45,519
If anyone wants to call in,
you're just going to have to wait until

685
01:03:45,599 --> 01:03:52,239
I until I bring you in.
But so, what do you think has

686
01:03:52,360 --> 01:03:58,239
changed as far as the overall attitude. I think I've noticed a number of

687
01:03:58,280 --> 01:04:03,360
things, for instance, actually released
audio, um you know, involve in

688
01:04:03,760 --> 01:04:09,920
regard to that Arizona UFO, which
is unheard of. So I think I

689
01:04:09,960 --> 01:04:15,000
think that there are some things changing
a little bit. Yes, yeah,

690
01:04:15,320 --> 01:04:21,119
Um. The thing is that frustrates
some of my colleagues, especially dear friends

691
01:04:21,800 --> 01:04:27,800
who are very active in what we
call the disclosure movement, is that they're

692
01:04:27,840 --> 01:04:35,400
not changing fast enough. Things are
changing arithmetically. They change when you see

693
01:04:35,440 --> 01:04:41,679
something that, like me as a
kid, radically alters your perception of the

694
01:04:41,719 --> 01:04:47,239
world and the nature of truth.
Or if somebody you know share something with

695
01:04:47,320 --> 01:04:55,280
you, and again a person who
you absolutely implicitly trust. But they're changing,

696
01:04:55,599 --> 01:04:58,599
you know, five to seven,
nine, two people at a time.

697
01:04:58,639 --> 01:05:04,519
They're not changing geometrically. I remember
early on in his pioneering work as

698
01:05:04,559 --> 01:05:12,119
a true godfather of disclosure movement,
my good friend in colleague, Steve Bassett,

699
01:05:12,159 --> 01:05:17,679
and I chatting years ago, and
Steve said, you know, year

700
01:05:17,679 --> 01:05:25,239
old enough to remember the anti war
movement in Vietnam War. I certainly do.

701
01:05:25,320 --> 01:05:28,000
I was an art student in New
York at the time and very much

702
01:05:28,000 --> 01:05:34,440
against the war and in the streets
protesting it at different times. And that

703
01:05:34,559 --> 01:05:45,880
movement began to really change geometrically after
Ramsey Clark left as Attorney General and I

704
01:05:45,920 --> 01:05:50,199
think a week later emerged as one
of the leaders of the anti war movement,

705
01:05:50,719 --> 01:05:57,559
making Lyndon Johnson. I'm sure especially
I'm happy that week and when the

706
01:05:57,679 --> 01:06:01,519
legendary Walter Cronkite went on cb YES
that night and made it very clear he

707
01:06:01,920 --> 01:06:09,159
also felt that this was no longer
viable and a wrong war. Our parents

708
01:06:09,440 --> 01:06:15,280
started to join us, young men
who were draft eligible, and the women

709
01:06:15,480 --> 01:06:23,679
in the field cared about us as
well. I don't think the disclosure movement

710
01:06:23,880 --> 01:06:31,199
will hit that mark again unless something
completely unpredictable, extremely dramatic, that is

711
01:06:31,280 --> 01:06:40,360
undeniable in an international sense, happens. You know, I agree with you

712
01:06:40,440 --> 01:06:45,119
and that I've said that a number
of times similar. But I also think

713
01:06:45,199 --> 01:06:54,039
that if for some reason that dramatic
event happened and it was undeniable, I

714
01:06:54,079 --> 01:06:59,199
think now we've had so much softening, for instance, just that one particular

715
01:07:00,239 --> 01:07:03,320
article coming out and some more people
looking into it that never did before,

716
01:07:03,360 --> 01:07:09,440
and all that, I think that
I think our life will just go on.

717
01:07:09,800 --> 01:07:13,360
I think that people will accept it
a lot more freely now. I

718
01:07:13,360 --> 01:07:16,760
don't think the world's going to come
crashing down and religion failing and all that.

719
01:07:16,800 --> 01:07:20,760
I think it's just going to be
accepted, and it's going to be

720
01:07:20,880 --> 01:07:25,880
not forgotten, but it's we're going
to live with it. Yes, and

721
01:07:26,000 --> 01:07:30,920
no, I think people of faith
will remain people of faith. However,

722
01:07:30,639 --> 01:07:35,599
when you and I and like minded
people discuss this, one thing I often

723
01:07:35,639 --> 01:07:43,400
observe is that we forget that we
live in a bubble, that our views,

724
01:07:44,519 --> 01:07:49,480
long entrenched, in many cases,
surrounded by people who have similar beliefs,

725
01:07:53,400 --> 01:07:57,440
make us forget or not be aware
of the degree to which we are

726
01:07:57,519 --> 01:08:01,239
still very much a minority, and
that the great majority of other people in

727
01:08:01,280 --> 01:08:05,960
this country and around the world relative
to this subject, are doing their best,

728
01:08:08,119 --> 01:08:14,119
hopefully to pay their bills, raise
healthy kids, hope that there's social

729
01:08:14,159 --> 01:08:18,840
Security or its equivalent health services when
they need them, live in a decent

730
01:08:18,880 --> 01:08:26,039
society that cares about its people,
and otherwise sleepwalking their way through this subject.

731
01:08:26,560 --> 01:08:30,279
I think there will be a potential
tremendous upheaval, and it's one of

732
01:08:30,279 --> 01:08:36,399
the reasons why I'm very circumspect about
power to the people everything now disclosure on

733
01:08:36,479 --> 01:08:42,039
everything, which was the way I
felt decades ago when I got into it.

734
01:08:42,439 --> 01:08:47,800
But if you really care about people
and how they are overall going to

735
01:08:47,880 --> 01:08:53,760
react, that's something you can't allow
yourself to forget. I'm not sure what

736
01:08:53,760 --> 01:08:59,720
the solution is, but that's a
fact, right right, Yeah, Well,

737
01:08:59,760 --> 01:09:04,760
I think UM, I think a
lot of things have like headed toward

738
01:09:05,479 --> 01:09:10,159
you know. I heard I heard
a UFO researcher said, disclosure has already

739
01:09:10,199 --> 01:09:13,720
happened, basically, you know.
And I think maybe that's it's happened.

740
01:09:13,720 --> 01:09:15,680
To the extent it's going to happen. I don't know, but UM,

741
01:09:16,399 --> 01:09:20,479
I think all the way going back
to Kepler, UM, you know,

742
01:09:20,600 --> 01:09:27,399
just discovering UM, all these possible
earthlike planets, UM, and just the

743
01:09:27,439 --> 01:09:30,199
fact that we have more and more
information coming at us all the time,

744
01:09:30,520 --> 01:09:34,640
that just seems it's so almost impossible
for us to be alone. UM.

745
01:09:35,800 --> 01:09:41,520
And that's I think that's that's a
fair statement and an understatement. UM.

746
01:09:41,560 --> 01:09:48,279
Over the past decade or so,
even the most conservative, recalcitrant UH denying

747
01:09:48,760 --> 01:09:57,439
UM astronomers and members of the space
looking scientific community have conceded that there are

748
01:09:57,479 --> 01:10:02,399
not just millions, but millions and
millions potentially of Earth size planets about the

749
01:10:02,439 --> 01:10:08,800
same different distance that we are from
a similar size star to the Sun.

750
01:10:09,359 --> 01:10:14,359
If you are a religious person,
it sets up the potential for the miracle

751
01:10:14,439 --> 01:10:18,399
of the creation of life by God. If you are secular thinking or scientifically

752
01:10:18,399 --> 01:10:24,399
oriented person, it sets up the
building blocks for the primortal ooze that the

753
01:10:24,439 --> 01:10:29,359
first one celled animal was created in
and you know, gave birth to a

754
01:10:29,399 --> 01:10:34,079
two celled animal, a creature whatever. So yeah, that is good.

755
01:10:34,479 --> 01:10:44,600
But still I think part of what
is keeping those folks stuck besides ridicule,

756
01:10:45,520 --> 01:10:57,199
is for some people it's just hard
to think about giving up the role that

757
01:10:57,239 --> 01:11:00,560
we humans have come to think of
ourselves in. Even if we are the

758
01:11:00,600 --> 01:11:05,439
poorest, most powerless person, we're
still a member of the most complex and

759
01:11:05,479 --> 01:11:12,199
amazing species ever to evolve. And
maybe there are a million years from now.

760
01:11:12,680 --> 01:11:16,279
Uh, maybe they are entirely different, non carbon based life forms,

761
01:11:16,840 --> 01:11:21,399
um silican. Maybe you know they're
from another dimension right next to us,

762
01:11:21,920 --> 01:11:26,119
you and Maine. Me in New
York right now, enjoying the show very

763
01:11:26,199 --> 01:11:30,560
much, and I've always been with
us in a combination thereof yeah. Yeah,

764
01:11:30,720 --> 01:11:33,039
we have a caller on the line. Caller, what's your first name?

765
01:11:33,039 --> 01:11:40,079
And where you're calling from? My
name is Can you say that again?

766
01:11:40,239 --> 01:11:43,920
We've got a bad connection. Yes, my name is Mike and I'm

767
01:11:43,960 --> 01:11:47,239
calling from Winnipeg. Can you gars
me Mike from Winnipeg? Yes, sir,

768
01:11:47,680 --> 01:11:49,840
Hi there, how you if I
could speak up just a little that'd

769
01:11:49,840 --> 01:11:56,359
be great. Sure, I was
wanting to know, uh, Peter's saughter

770
01:11:56,479 --> 01:12:01,760
position is regarding the you two phenomena
and whether there is a connection or association

771
01:12:01,960 --> 01:12:12,119
between it and consciousness or mental telepathy. Great question, Mike. It's become

772
01:12:13,760 --> 01:12:21,720
really very popular to backpedal the et
hypothesis, although I think it's one of

773
01:12:21,720 --> 01:12:28,119
the most conservative ones now in looking
at these other intelligences, I've come to

774
01:12:28,199 --> 01:12:32,399
feel, and based on evidence that
I've seen over the decades, that's certainly

775
01:12:32,720 --> 01:12:42,600
some of what we call UFO activity
is representative of advanced technology under intelligent control,

776
01:12:43,880 --> 01:12:47,079
and that it's not much of a
stretch to consider that if they are

777
01:12:47,159 --> 01:12:53,760
as technologically advanced compared to us as
they may well be, that they may

778
01:12:54,319 --> 01:13:00,680
well also be more advanced in terms
of consciousness within the abduction phenomena. We've

779
01:13:00,720 --> 01:13:08,279
observed hundreds of times in that research
area of research specialty that they, for

780
01:13:08,359 --> 01:13:11,439
lack of a better term, I've
never been comfortable with the term aliens,

781
01:13:11,439 --> 01:13:18,439
these other intelligences can certainly affect our
perception. So I think that your question

782
01:13:18,560 --> 01:13:24,680
is very well founded, and I
think that there is genuinely something to what

783
01:13:24,800 --> 01:13:28,359
you're asking. Hey, Mike,
Thanks for the call. Do you have

784
01:13:28,359 --> 01:13:30,800
any other question? No, that's
it. Thank you, great show,

785
01:13:30,960 --> 01:13:34,880
Thank you Mike. Thanks. So
the line's open if anyone wants to call

786
01:13:34,960 --> 01:13:40,880
in, Peter, what do you
think is the and I'll try to let

787
01:13:40,880 --> 01:13:44,800
you know if we have a caller
calling in. So, what is your

788
01:13:45,359 --> 01:13:49,680
What do you think is the biggest
challenges that the UFO community has right now?

789
01:13:53,680 --> 01:14:01,600
I think part of it is working
together more cohesively. We human beings,

790
01:14:01,600 --> 01:14:05,840
and we're no different in this area
of study. Clashes of egos,

791
01:14:06,960 --> 01:14:14,319
people putting forward their own passionate beliefs
as empirical fact is a big problem for

792
01:14:14,399 --> 01:14:17,920
me. No matter how respected or
well known, or how many books you

793
01:14:17,960 --> 01:14:25,039
sell, if you make a statement, as one person has some time back,

794
01:14:25,520 --> 01:14:31,319
that all aliens are good, or
that a specific number are visiting our

795
01:14:31,359 --> 01:14:39,479
earth, now, for me,
that's complete bull nonsense. And I don't

796
01:14:39,520 --> 01:14:47,079
care how many deep sources you have
within the intelligence community, the deep government,

797
01:14:48,520 --> 01:14:56,439
whether the President of the United States, the head of Russia, the

798
01:14:56,439 --> 01:15:00,479
supreme rulers of six alien races,
all rolled into on being. There are

799
01:15:00,520 --> 01:15:08,800
certain things that you cannot know in
anything remotely provable. This only hurts the

800
01:15:08,840 --> 01:15:16,079
work the side shows of claims of
things that I consider somewhat outrageous, just

801
01:15:16,239 --> 01:15:23,359
based on a document that has no
providence, that may have been, you

802
01:15:23,399 --> 01:15:30,279
know, secretly spirited out of official
circles with a very sincere account from somebody

803
01:15:30,800 --> 01:15:32,920
who will look you in the eye
when they tell you about, you know,

804
01:15:33,079 --> 01:15:41,560
their mission on Mars, etc.
Let me put it this way.

805
01:15:42,520 --> 01:15:45,319
When I was about twelve years old, through my love of film and reading,

806
01:15:45,359 --> 01:15:49,800
I was introduced to a character named
Sherlock Holmes, a wonderful creation of

807
01:15:49,800 --> 01:15:57,039
an English writer named Arthur Conan Doyle. Hold it while I terminate that,

808
01:15:58,000 --> 01:16:01,079
Hey, I think we have actually, um, Peter, we may have

809
01:16:01,119 --> 01:16:05,800
a caller on the line. I
go for it. Julie, Uh caller?

810
01:16:06,439 --> 01:16:13,439
Are you there? Well, I've
been called worse things before. Hey,

811
01:16:13,560 --> 01:16:16,199
Lee, it's so weird. Lee. I never I never accepted your

812
01:16:16,199 --> 01:16:19,319
call, so I never saw unless
I did too it once. So,

813
01:16:19,560 --> 01:16:23,359
Lee Spiegel, how are you?
That's what? That's what. That's one

814
01:16:23,399 --> 01:16:29,119
of the reasons why you and I
cannot be real good friends because you don't

815
01:16:29,119 --> 01:16:36,159
accept my calls. Hello, Peter. Hello, Well you know I just

816
01:16:36,159 --> 01:16:41,800
couldn't help myself because when I heard
you say the words trimoidial ooze. Oh

817
01:16:42,039 --> 01:16:45,600
gosh, I wasn't that just about
you? I swear it was like,

818
01:16:45,760 --> 01:16:50,800
it's like you were talking about where
I live. Yeah, if you're in

819
01:16:50,880 --> 01:16:55,800
Queens, that's my birthplace. Man, that's why it is. I know,

820
01:16:56,079 --> 01:16:59,680
I know, I know, I'm
I'm watching the ship for you here.

821
01:17:02,319 --> 01:17:06,920
It's nice. It's nice to see
both of you, and I just

822
01:17:08,039 --> 01:17:15,319
wanted to say that I actually feel
I'm very pretty sure about this. Disclosure

823
01:17:15,359 --> 01:17:23,079
has happened. And I get really
crazy when I hear people say not only

824
01:17:23,079 --> 01:17:26,960
that there's no evidence, but disclosure
is imminent. Oh, come on,

825
01:17:27,520 --> 01:17:33,680
both you know. It's it's like
all that anybody really has to do is

826
01:17:34,319 --> 01:17:40,000
do some legwork. And I'm not
saying you Peter, or you Martin or

827
01:17:40,000 --> 01:17:45,840
any the other researchers who I respect. It's like, if people want to

828
01:17:45,840 --> 01:17:47,439
believe in something, that they're gonna
believe in it, whether they do any

829
01:17:47,479 --> 01:17:51,680
research on it or not. But
when it comes to UFOs, and if

830
01:17:51,720 --> 01:17:57,279
we're being visited by anybody from somewhere
else, and I don't care where they

831
01:17:57,359 --> 01:18:00,840
might be coming from, I don't
think that's important. But there's there's tons

832
01:18:00,880 --> 01:18:06,920
of evidence out there. The naysayers, the hard nosed skeptics, the debunkers.

833
01:18:08,439 --> 01:18:13,199
You know, they're in it for
their own agenda. Um. But

834
01:18:13,199 --> 01:18:18,000
but in terms of agendas, there
is no real overall agenda. I think

835
01:18:18,000 --> 01:18:20,800
that there's plenty of evidence. People
just have to go out there, do

836
01:18:20,880 --> 01:18:27,840
the legwork, read the documents,
go into historical records, do some research,

837
01:18:27,880 --> 01:18:31,960
folks, and you will find stuff
that will open your eyes there that

838
01:18:32,159 --> 01:18:36,720
might piece Yes. Um, for
those who are not familiar with my dear

839
01:18:36,800 --> 01:18:42,520
friend and close colleague, league Spiegel, once again, I am a self

840
01:18:42,560 --> 01:18:48,760
trained investigative writer. Lee is a
journalist and one of the best ever in

841
01:18:48,800 --> 01:18:54,319
this field. Absolutely, thank you
and thank you. It's a fact,

842
01:18:54,640 --> 01:18:59,560
and we may It's possible that Lee
might be coming up with another person on

843
01:18:59,600 --> 01:19:02,199
my show, but I don't know
if Lee has that confirmed yet. Does

844
01:19:02,319 --> 01:19:09,359
Lee. Well, we're working on
it. We're working and I don't mind

845
01:19:09,520 --> 01:19:13,119
saying. You know, we're talking
about, um, my good friend James

846
01:19:13,159 --> 01:19:19,640
Fox, whom I am co producing, um, the next UFO documentary that

847
01:19:19,720 --> 01:19:26,840
will becoming I'm jealous. Oh well, well, don't be. Just just

848
01:19:27,039 --> 01:19:31,159
be as as hopeful as I am
that this thing is going to be what

849
01:19:31,239 --> 01:19:36,760
we hope it will, and it
will open people's minds or change people's attitudes.

850
01:19:38,199 --> 01:19:42,199
Should have a little bit about UFOs. We're not going to be We're

851
01:19:42,199 --> 01:19:46,479
not attacking the government with the governments
of the world about why why there's been

852
01:19:46,520 --> 01:19:51,800
so much secrecy and conspiracies and lying
against the public. That's not where we're

853
01:19:51,800 --> 01:19:58,319
heading in this particular documentary. And
we've got some interviews that will blow everybody

854
01:19:58,359 --> 01:20:01,520
away. I will tell you that
that are already in the can. Then

855
01:20:01,560 --> 01:20:06,479
we have more to get and we're
working very diligently. I'm going out to

856
01:20:06,520 --> 01:20:11,520
California in about a week and I'm
going to be there with James for the

857
01:20:11,520 --> 01:20:15,159
whole month of June, walking on
the script of this documentary. Please send

858
01:20:15,239 --> 01:20:20,079
him my best wishes, and I
will not now say let's get together when

859
01:20:20,079 --> 01:20:25,039
I'm back in town next month.
I would rather be in California, I

860
01:20:25,039 --> 01:20:30,479
think. But James Fox is among
the finest documentary filmmakers ever to tackle this

861
01:20:30,560 --> 01:20:34,680
subject. I'm working with you.
I am already very excited. Do you

862
01:20:34,720 --> 01:20:40,159
guys have a working title that you
can share? I can. I can

863
01:20:40,239 --> 01:20:44,560
give you that much tonight. Sure, Um, it's called UFOs. What

864
01:20:44,720 --> 01:20:49,119
we now know excellent. It was
seven oh one or that was the title

865
01:20:49,560 --> 01:20:54,199
at first, but things have changed
a lot of people still contact me wondering

866
01:20:54,199 --> 01:20:58,840
what's going on with that, But
so that's the yeah, yeah, yeah,

867
01:20:58,880 --> 01:21:01,840
And for any any members of your
audience who don't know even the reference

868
01:21:01,840 --> 01:21:08,319
of seven oh one UM. When
when Project Bluebook, the Air Forces twenty

869
01:21:08,319 --> 01:21:13,520
two twenty three years study of UFOs, when it ended after after looking at

870
01:21:13,560 --> 01:21:19,359
twelve thousand plus UM cases and reports
about UFOs, they ended up with seven

871
01:21:19,479 --> 01:21:27,880
hundred and one cases that were completely
unexplained and unknown. And and so those,

872
01:21:27,960 --> 01:21:30,520
some of those cases are what we're
dealing with because frankly, I don't

873
01:21:30,520 --> 01:21:34,439
care about the have a twelve thousand
more because you know, it's like,

874
01:21:34,520 --> 01:21:38,479
you know, you're going to take
a stance. You've got to put your

875
01:21:38,520 --> 01:21:44,039
focus on what's really worth looking into. And I personally don't want to spend

876
01:21:44,079 --> 01:21:48,439
any time looking at objects that were
obviously the planet Venus that was moving around

877
01:21:48,439 --> 01:21:55,079
in the sky. It's just don't
makes sense to me. Um. And

878
01:21:55,319 --> 01:21:59,520
I also want to say that I'm
a big admirer of Peter Robbins. Peter

879
01:21:59,760 --> 01:22:05,760
is is one of the more dogged
and I use that word likely dogged investigators

880
01:22:05,920 --> 01:22:11,920
of a variety of subjects. And
I know he's been all of the Rendelssom

881
01:22:12,039 --> 01:22:17,560
case in England. And well you
your your audience probably knows who Peter is.

882
01:22:17,800 --> 01:22:21,399
He's out there, he's doing great
work and I appreciate him, always

883
01:22:21,439 --> 01:22:25,479
have. Yeah, Hayley, thanks
so much for the call, and I

884
01:22:25,520 --> 01:22:30,159
hope to be talking to you just
in a couple of weeks. Yes,

885
01:22:30,199 --> 01:22:33,840
sir, me too. Good night
out. Wonderful hearing your voice late,

886
01:22:34,800 --> 01:22:41,159
Youtuo, Peter, take it easier, alight, Okay, all right,

887
01:22:41,159 --> 01:22:44,119
we have another caller on the line. Your first name and where you're calling

888
01:22:44,199 --> 01:22:48,920
from. Abner Calls the Florida.
Hi, Abner, welcome to the show.

889
01:22:49,000 --> 01:22:55,560
You have a question for Peter.
Well, um, all things I

890
01:22:55,159 --> 01:22:58,920
am. I spoke to me about
the whole disclosure thing. He I do

891
01:22:59,119 --> 01:23:02,479
possib believe the schloid has already happened. Everybody just needs an open her eyes

892
01:23:02,520 --> 01:23:08,159
a little bit. The person I
have for Peter is he making about his

893
01:23:08,520 --> 01:23:12,960
sister. And I'm very curious as
to what brought him to the conclusion his

894
01:23:13,039 --> 01:23:18,680
sister was abducted or may have been
abducted. Well, my sister and I

895
01:23:19,600 --> 01:23:25,479
she passed away in two thousand,
were always very close in age, in

896
01:23:25,479 --> 01:23:30,399
interests. As adults, we were
roommates. She was a brilliant artist,

897
01:23:30,439 --> 01:23:35,760
a singer, songwriter, a writer. She's one of the most honest and

898
01:23:35,800 --> 01:23:42,640
straightforward people I ever knew. She
told me this at a time more than

899
01:23:42,680 --> 01:23:48,000
forty years ago, when I had
never thought about this is a possibility.

900
01:23:49,199 --> 01:23:54,439
Over time, the things that she
told me, sometimes word for word,

901
01:23:55,039 --> 01:23:59,720
came up in dozens and dozens and
dozens of cases that I worked with Budd

902
01:23:59,760 --> 01:24:04,119
Hopkins on. She never, unlike
me, never forgot that day and never

903
01:24:04,159 --> 01:24:09,520
forgot the memories. But as she
said to me fourteen and a half years

904
01:24:09,600 --> 01:24:13,000
later, when I asked her why
we had never talked about this, she

905
01:24:13,039 --> 01:24:15,039
said, do you remember that afternoon
when I asked you if you wanted to

906
01:24:15,039 --> 01:24:18,079
talk about it? And you said
no? And I said, of course,

907
01:24:18,159 --> 01:24:20,119
And she said, you know you're
my brother. I love you,

908
01:24:20,119 --> 01:24:24,079
and I respect you. And one
day led to the next week, led

909
01:24:24,119 --> 01:24:27,600
to the next month, led to
the next year. As time passed,

910
01:24:27,800 --> 01:24:36,119
she worked closely with that extraordinary police
detective who was a pioneer in using regressive

911
01:24:36,199 --> 01:24:45,119
hypnosis in criminal investigation and with Bud
Hopkins to delve into her experiences with more

912
01:24:45,239 --> 01:24:51,560
depth in terms of abductie accounts.
And obviously you might think I'm lacking certain

913
01:24:51,760 --> 01:24:59,119
objectivity here, and that's fair to
say, but it is her account is

914
01:24:59,159 --> 01:25:04,720
as credible and as well backed up. Also included an implant which we could

915
01:25:04,760 --> 01:25:10,520
spend a whole show on, an
anomalous object in her case, way up

916
01:25:10,560 --> 01:25:17,119
in her nasal cavity that she sneezed
out as a child, which became something

917
01:25:17,159 --> 01:25:21,000
I remembered because it was the only
time growing up that I was awakened in

918
01:25:21,039 --> 01:25:26,960
the middle of the night by my
parents moving around and Helen in her bed

919
01:25:27,039 --> 01:25:32,079
with her pillowcase quite red with she
had sneezed the sing out she had asthma

920
01:25:32,199 --> 01:25:39,520
and got all kinds of allergies.
She saw it had kind of a girl's

921
01:25:39,600 --> 01:25:43,159
reaction of ick and kept it in
the clean x and threw it away.

922
01:25:44,039 --> 01:25:46,359
The implant phenomena, though, is
as real as the chair that I'm sitting

923
01:25:46,439 --> 01:25:49,680
on, and there are quite a
number of specialty researchers in that part of

924
01:25:49,720 --> 01:25:54,680
the field. More, I don't
think I can give you Abner, but

925
01:25:57,000 --> 01:26:01,039
I did and do take her case
as seriously as the case that I went

926
01:26:01,039 --> 01:26:06,800
into in detail earlier in the show
about Linda and the Brooklyn Bridge UFO abductions

927
01:26:06,880 --> 01:26:13,479
and so many other people. Thank
you for that, Peter Abner, thank

928
01:26:13,520 --> 01:26:19,239
you very much for your call.
Yes, all right, so Peter,

929
01:26:19,399 --> 01:26:27,560
did you And I'm sorry your sister
passed away. I remember we've talked about

930
01:26:27,560 --> 01:26:33,920
that. Did you have her go
through any of the work with Bud?

931
01:26:33,960 --> 01:26:38,520
Actually, oh my god, I
didn't have her do it. She did

932
01:26:38,560 --> 01:26:44,159
it. They became very dear friends. But she was one of more than

933
01:26:44,199 --> 01:26:49,199
eight hundred people that he worked with
in regression. Eight hundred. Oh yeah,

934
01:26:48,720 --> 01:26:55,039
I know, because I logged in
all those audio cassettes and kept it

935
01:26:55,119 --> 01:27:01,680
was all back in the day,
done in analog formatitnessed more hypnotic aggressions than

936
01:27:01,720 --> 01:27:08,800
I can even recall now. At
the request of the individual and Bud obviously

937
01:27:11,159 --> 01:27:13,239
speaking of that, we have a
we have a call coming in at the

938
01:27:13,279 --> 01:27:16,279
same time, So that was perfect
timing for that person to call. You

939
01:27:17,239 --> 01:27:21,720
call your first name, Where are
you calling from? My name is Lyndy

940
01:27:21,760 --> 01:27:28,119
and I'm calling from Tennessee. Hi
there, welcome to the show. Hello.

941
01:27:29,199 --> 01:27:30,760
I can't believe I got through.
That's cool. That's the first time

942
01:27:30,800 --> 01:27:34,960
I even turned in I'm loving yourself. Thank you. I've wanted to point

943
01:27:35,039 --> 01:27:40,520
out something here. I am fifty
nine, so I'm one of the last

944
01:27:40,600 --> 01:27:45,880
of the baby boomer bunch, and
we grew up watching our people getting assassinated

945
01:27:45,079 --> 01:27:50,119
and still rights, you know,
fight and Watergate and one bit of corruption

946
01:27:50,159 --> 01:27:54,000
after the other, and it just
seems like it's just all from bad to

947
01:27:54,079 --> 01:27:59,680
words over the past fifty seven years. My concern I hear people saying the

948
01:27:59,760 --> 01:28:03,800
others been disclosure, But I think
what people like me after seeing all this

949
01:28:04,000 --> 01:28:11,239
craft that's taken place. I see
that there has been a grave abuse of

950
01:28:11,359 --> 01:28:16,880
Americans and humanity in general by this
cover up in some shadow government. And

951
01:28:17,000 --> 01:28:23,119
I'm not into all the deep dark
conspiracies as far as that goes political wise,

952
01:28:23,279 --> 01:28:27,800
just the fact that it looks to
me from the outbad looking in that

953
01:28:28,039 --> 01:28:34,119
this has been something used to subvert
our very system of laws that are meant

954
01:28:34,199 --> 01:28:38,920
to protect we the people. If
you, if I understand where I'm going

955
01:28:39,000 --> 01:28:43,880
with this, this is the full
disclosure I'm looking for, because if we

956
01:28:44,079 --> 01:28:47,880
don't get the cancer out of the
system, that's going to kill all of

957
01:28:48,000 --> 01:28:50,479
us. It can be used to
do anything that just about this, that

958
01:28:50,680 --> 01:28:55,840
or the other, for national security
or whatever. And I'm tired of being

959
01:28:55,920 --> 01:28:59,279
lied to it. I feel like
we've been lied to for decades and I'm

960
01:28:59,319 --> 01:29:01,560
tired of it. I'm really said, I'm a grown woman. I'm not

961
01:29:01,680 --> 01:29:05,520
a five year old child. You
tell me that there's aliens visiting here,

962
01:29:05,720 --> 01:29:09,279
I'll say, hey, buddy,
myn named Linda, let's let's talk.

963
01:29:09,960 --> 01:29:13,520
I'm not going to run and hide
under my bed and freak out. I'm

964
01:29:13,560 --> 01:29:16,119
a grown woman. I can deal
with it. And I don't like being

965
01:29:16,159 --> 01:29:19,800
treated like a child. Thank you. And I'm tired of the government hide

966
01:29:19,920 --> 01:29:26,439
it. I couldn't agree with you
more. And for me, your view

967
01:29:27,279 --> 01:29:31,840
goes to the core of the real
problem here on Earth regarding this subject.

968
01:29:33,000 --> 01:29:40,600
In the summer of nineteen forty seven, through an extraordinary pounding away by our

969
01:29:40,720 --> 01:29:45,159
media, quietly, tacitly not interfered
with it, to put it mildly,

970
01:29:45,279 --> 01:29:50,359
by our government, the American people
and by extension, the Western world were

971
01:29:50,880 --> 01:29:57,600
simply made to understand and accept,
really without much question, that all of

972
01:29:57,680 --> 01:30:03,359
this nonsense about visitations space we're all
explainable and conventional ways for those of us

973
01:30:03,560 --> 01:30:10,439
who are serious students of the subject, the thousands of pages of fully authentic

974
01:30:10,840 --> 01:30:19,239
guilt edged formally classified documentation from every
imaginable agency, military, intelligence, governmental

975
01:30:19,359 --> 01:30:27,000
offices that counter that and show how
concerned we were about the potential for panic.

976
01:30:28,319 --> 01:30:31,239
I think what they're really talking about
and talk about national security, national

977
01:30:31,399 --> 01:30:36,159
insecurity. Starting at the get go
that summer in the post war years,

978
01:30:36,840 --> 01:30:41,840
America was such a different place.
We had really we were the good guys.

979
01:30:42,079 --> 01:30:45,840
We really were the good guys.
We had helped make this world free

980
01:30:45,399 --> 01:30:53,000
from fascism, and the Marshal Plan
was doing something extraordinary, helping our former

981
01:30:53,800 --> 01:31:00,159
enemies rebuild their societies and ideally go
on to a better world together well and

982
01:31:00,239 --> 01:31:04,479
worked out so well in many respects. But I think those people that were

983
01:31:04,560 --> 01:31:11,920
involved in the initial wave of secret
keeping, they were all powerful white guys

984
01:31:13,039 --> 01:31:18,520
who had a vested interest in being
perceived as powerful. This was at a

985
01:31:18,600 --> 01:31:23,880
moment when the power balance in the
world was shifting. The Soviet Union was

986
01:31:23,920 --> 01:31:29,560
our next big enemy, the next
war could be nuclear Paranoia of a different

987
01:31:29,640 --> 01:31:33,319
sort was engendering itself, and it
was seen as the right thing to do

988
01:31:34,399 --> 01:31:39,439
to lie through or tis to the
American people. For me the birth of

989
01:31:39,520 --> 01:31:45,000
our National security State, which euphologically
I think is brilliantly laid out in the

990
01:31:45,079 --> 01:31:53,000
first two of three volumes by I
think most respected UFO related historian Richard M.

991
01:31:53,079 --> 01:31:57,279
Dolan in his books UFOs in the
National Security State one and two.

992
01:31:58,199 --> 01:32:03,880
Is that first eart, that first
irritant that had to be covered up did

993
01:32:04,000 --> 01:32:08,359
not have to do with nuclear secrets. It had to do with keeping this

994
01:32:08,560 --> 01:32:15,199
secret and like a pearl, building
layers and layers and layers until it was

995
01:32:15,439 --> 01:32:18,840
this huge thing at the beginning,
in the middle of all of it.

996
01:32:20,119 --> 01:32:26,760
I think your view is absolutely right. I admire your attitude about it.

997
01:32:27,239 --> 01:32:30,920
I think there are a lot of
people who will be able, despite what

998
01:32:30,000 --> 01:32:34,039
I said earlier about you know,
fear of the unknown and possibility of panic

999
01:32:34,079 --> 01:32:39,079
among some people, who will be
able to stand up and say, okay,

1000
01:32:39,560 --> 01:32:44,800
I always suspected this, or if
the worst was possible, you know,

1001
01:32:45,000 --> 01:32:48,199
we'd all be taken over or melted
down now like an ad that's already

1002
01:32:48,600 --> 01:32:54,239
yeah. I think a weird generation
that grew up with Star Trek okay,

1003
01:32:54,760 --> 01:32:59,079
that blasted my boin open. I
don't want a cool concept. I don't

1004
01:32:59,119 --> 01:33:00,840
want to get out there meet these
other beings. Just to me, it

1005
01:33:00,960 --> 01:33:05,399
made so much more sense than we're
the only one, and I see that

1006
01:33:05,600 --> 01:33:10,680
people all around our end we feel
the same way. And what it looks

1007
01:33:10,760 --> 01:33:15,159
like to me, this control,
this cover up isn't more to maintain that

1008
01:33:15,520 --> 01:33:19,319
power over people. That's right,
It's not about protecting us. Here's two

1009
01:33:19,359 --> 01:33:24,079
reasons why they're doing it. Number
One, because one of the central secrets

1010
01:33:24,760 --> 01:33:30,600
after seventy plus years, is how
little we really know and understand about that,

1011
01:33:30,800 --> 01:33:34,000
and that is something that fragile egos
that want to be seen as powerful

1012
01:33:34,039 --> 01:33:40,039
cannot deal with. The other thing, brilliantly pointed out decades ago by our

1013
01:33:40,880 --> 01:33:46,000
senior most respected ufologists, Stanton T. Friedman, now retired, retiring from

1014
01:33:46,039 --> 01:33:50,000
the field after more than fifty years
of slugging away one of the greatest people

1015
01:33:50,439 --> 01:33:56,479
ever in the field, is very
if. Indeed, it was announced that

1016
01:33:56,680 --> 01:34:00,199
we are not alone in the universe. We're being visited by other beings that

1017
01:34:00,399 --> 01:34:04,800
they some of them maybe are you
want to work with us and have been

1018
01:34:04,840 --> 01:34:09,920
watching overs or concerned about us.
Other ones that may be malevolent. I

1019
01:34:10,039 --> 01:34:14,399
think they have the potential of being
anything that we are that we for the

1020
01:34:14,479 --> 01:34:18,319
first time as human beings on earth. God forbid for people who live by

1021
01:34:18,359 --> 01:34:23,760
a code of nationalism and controlling the
rest of us by where the line is

1022
01:34:23,840 --> 01:34:26,680
drawn in the dirt. And you're
on this side, I'm on this side.

1023
01:34:26,720 --> 01:34:29,000
You're the other. You're evil.
I don't understand. You speak a

1024
01:34:29,000 --> 01:34:31,359
different language, you have a different
colored skin. We might, fire of

1025
01:34:31,520 --> 01:34:36,520
horrors, start to think of ourselves
from the very first time together as human

1026
01:34:36,640 --> 01:34:43,479
beings rather than Americans, Russians,
Indians, Canadians, Venezuelans, Catholics,

1027
01:34:43,960 --> 01:34:47,600
Muslims, Buddhist, Jews, men, women, and that would be devastating

1028
01:34:47,680 --> 01:34:51,720
to the forces that like to move
the chess pieces. That's right, great,

1029
01:34:51,800 --> 01:34:56,319
dad is very well said, very
well said. I've enjoyed talking with

1030
01:34:56,479 --> 01:34:59,199
you. I'm glad to meet you. I think you and I could sit

1031
01:34:59,560 --> 01:35:04,920
talking a pleasure And thank you for
your clear thinking. Yeah, thank you,

1032
01:35:05,000 --> 01:35:11,199
Lindia, Bye bye bye. Um
so yes, um so the lines

1033
01:35:11,199 --> 01:35:15,199
are open if someone else would like
to call in. Um. And speaking

1034
01:35:15,239 --> 01:35:21,680
of Stanton Freedman, I had him
and um Kathy Marden on my show back

1035
01:35:23,279 --> 01:35:27,119
in December. And it's the first
time. Yeah, and it's the first

1036
01:35:27,199 --> 01:35:31,399
YouTube video that I did a podcast
on that actually hit one hundred thousand views.

1037
01:35:31,439 --> 01:35:35,439
That just hit it. Um wow
yesterday, I think so yeah,

1038
01:35:36,119 --> 01:35:40,840
UM, and I want I'm going
to get stand On. I've been communicating,

1039
01:35:41,000 --> 01:35:44,760
going to get stand On for just
one more time before he retires for

1040
01:35:45,039 --> 01:35:49,439
a retirement show. So listener,
keep your eyes open for that. It's

1041
01:35:49,439 --> 01:35:55,359
going to be some time this summer. We'll have, UM, we'll have

1042
01:35:55,520 --> 01:35:58,560
some time to do that. So
we're going to go about um to make

1043
01:35:58,680 --> 01:36:01,720
up for those the star time,
We're going to go about another fifteen minutes

1044
01:36:01,840 --> 01:36:05,640
or so, Peter, are you
all right with that? Yeah? Okay,

1045
01:36:06,119 --> 01:36:14,119
because our start time was delayed.
So, so you mentioned the issues

1046
01:36:14,159 --> 01:36:17,039
with the UFO field. What do
you think is good about the UFO field

1047
01:36:17,079 --> 01:36:28,359
today that we have people with the
courage, with the curiosity to say the

1048
01:36:28,439 --> 01:36:32,439
hell with ridicule. I'm putting myself
on the line here. I'm interested in

1049
01:36:32,560 --> 01:36:35,760
it. I'm not going to not
talk about it. I'm reading about it.

1050
01:36:36,079 --> 01:36:42,439
I'm networking with people. I'm trying
to understand for myself with the goal

1051
01:36:42,760 --> 01:36:47,279
of wanting to make a contribution in
what I consider extremely important work. I

1052
01:36:47,439 --> 01:36:51,960
support anybody who is trying to follow
that path. I would suggest that you

1053
01:36:53,119 --> 01:36:56,439
keep your day jobs and don't do
what I do, and try to do

1054
01:36:56,520 --> 01:37:00,239
it full time and pay your bills
by doing it. Um. It's it's

1055
01:37:00,520 --> 01:37:10,079
very rough going, but there's room
for as many people who are willing to

1056
01:37:10,159 --> 01:37:15,840
put themselves on the line and do
the work for me. That's inspiring,

1057
01:37:15,439 --> 01:37:21,119
especially when it's younger generation. Yes, yeah, we need it would be

1058
01:37:21,399 --> 01:37:25,840
nice, you know, going to
conferences you don't see while you're starting to

1059
01:37:25,920 --> 01:37:30,720
see some, but it's there's kind
of an aging you know, conference going

1060
01:37:31,119 --> 01:37:34,479
crowd, you know at this point, so it would be nice to see

1061
01:37:34,520 --> 01:37:39,600
it. Um, you know,
get a little younger and more people.

1062
01:37:40,279 --> 01:37:44,960
I understand. You know, there's
so much information being thrown at young people

1063
01:37:45,039 --> 01:37:49,159
today from all different directions and everything. You know, everything is built for

1064
01:37:49,199 --> 01:37:54,000
a very short attention span. You
need a long attention span for this field.

1065
01:37:56,560 --> 01:38:00,920
You know about the ridicule part of
it, you know, it's it's

1066
01:38:00,039 --> 01:38:04,720
pretty amazing. You know, I've
spoken to a number of people that have

1067
01:38:05,399 --> 01:38:09,640
no ridicule, and some people have
a lot of ridicule. And I'm talking

1068
01:38:09,640 --> 01:38:14,119
about like in the workplace, for
instance, Preston Dennett was on a couple

1069
01:38:14,119 --> 01:38:16,239
of weeks ago, and he was
saying, you know, everyone at work

1070
01:38:16,319 --> 01:38:20,760
knows him as a UFO guy,
and it's great. And I worked with

1071
01:38:20,960 --> 01:38:28,119
a few years ago at a startup
company and it was for collectibles, but

1072
01:38:28,199 --> 01:38:31,960
it's still going today. It's an
internet startup company. And I had a

1073
01:38:32,079 --> 01:38:38,119
position there was advising them and stuff, and it came out that I headed

1074
01:38:38,119 --> 01:38:41,680
a UFO show and everyone was like
thirty some odd people. They all loved

1075
01:38:41,680 --> 01:38:43,960
it, and you know, we're
talking about it all the time. So

1076
01:38:44,079 --> 01:38:48,279
it really depends on what profession someone's
in and what they're doing and if they

1077
01:38:48,439 --> 01:38:51,119
get ridiculed or not. As you, as an artist, I don't think

1078
01:38:51,159 --> 01:38:54,800
you ever had to worry about that
part of it, did you? Not

1079
01:38:54,960 --> 01:38:59,720
as much? I give you an
example though, About thirty years ago,

1080
01:39:00,199 --> 01:39:05,039
I had a series of summer jobs
teaching in a wonderful program sponsored by the

1081
01:39:05,119 --> 01:39:15,840
Oklahoma Council on the Arts, working
in an area in northeastern Oklahoma where I

1082
01:39:15,960 --> 01:39:23,000
work with kids, most of them
split between the children or the grandchildren of

1083
01:39:23,119 --> 01:39:28,840
Phillips Petroleum Executives and Engineers, which
had its headquarters in Bartlesville, Oklahoma at

1084
01:39:28,880 --> 01:39:32,760
the time, and Osage and Cherokee
kids. I was an artist and I

1085
01:39:32,880 --> 01:39:41,880
was teaching art and one Saturday afternoon
I had afternoon to myself. I had

1086
01:39:41,960 --> 01:39:45,119
my loner pickup truck. I was
having a burgh or someplace in town.

1087
01:39:45,840 --> 01:39:48,199
And the father of one of the
kids that I worked with that year in

1088
01:39:48,279 --> 01:39:53,239
the year before saw me through the
window, came in, you know,

1089
01:39:53,760 --> 01:39:55,960
very happy to see me, and
immediately said, Pete, you're not going

1090
01:39:56,039 --> 01:39:58,760
to believe this. I got a
call from such and such last night.

1091
01:39:58,800 --> 01:40:00,359
He said, you gotta You're not
going to believe this. But I was

1092
01:40:00,479 --> 01:40:04,760
tuning through the television channels and I
saw that our teacher, Pete Robbins on

1093
01:40:04,880 --> 01:40:11,439
television and guess what the show was
about? UFOs And he started to laugh

1094
01:40:11,520 --> 01:40:13,760
as he said it, and he
said that couldn't have been you, right,

1095
01:40:14,279 --> 01:40:18,319
Well, it actually could have been
me, because it is a subject

1096
01:40:18,439 --> 01:40:26,000
I do besides being an artist.
And he his face fell and he got

1097
01:40:26,159 --> 01:40:30,680
very quiet and serious and said,
I can't believe it. And this guy

1098
01:40:30,039 --> 01:40:35,239
was an engineer, an oil engineer, well educated, well traveled, not

1099
01:40:35,439 --> 01:40:42,920
unsophisticated. His basic response was you
work with our kids, We trust you,

1100
01:40:44,079 --> 01:40:47,239
We think of you is as smart
and I said, you know,

1101
01:40:47,359 --> 01:40:53,039
well, let's talk about this more. The upshot was he invited me to

1102
01:40:53,159 --> 01:40:58,920
speak for a club out of I
think it was their local Elks club that

1103
01:40:59,039 --> 01:41:01,880
he called the s ob I said, look on my face, he said,

1104
01:41:01,880 --> 01:41:05,840
the Skeptics of Bartlesville. And about
a week or so later I was

1105
01:41:06,119 --> 01:41:09,960
their guests at a lovely dinner where
we drank a lot and had a lot

1106
01:41:10,000 --> 01:41:13,760
of fun. And then they put
my feet to the fire and started hitting

1107
01:41:13,800 --> 01:41:18,479
me with questions and dismissing my answers. And by the time the thing that

1108
01:41:18,640 --> 01:41:26,640
got around to absolutely splitting the room
wide open was without giving the name of

1109
01:41:26,720 --> 01:41:30,319
the signer, I read two letters
copies of letters that I had in my

1110
01:41:30,439 --> 01:41:35,000
files on a stationary of the United
States Senate, letters to a constituent to

1111
01:41:35,079 --> 01:41:41,039
two different constituents from the then senior
Senator. When the letters are written not

1112
01:41:41,880 --> 01:41:47,119
I did the talk from the great
state of Arizona named Barry M. Goldwater,

1113
01:41:47,279 --> 01:41:50,720
who, as many people in the
field know, was a reserve general

1114
01:41:50,760 --> 01:41:57,760
in the United States Air Force and
an activist UFO person. And they didn't

1115
01:41:57,760 --> 01:42:00,640
care about Reagan. They didn't care
about other people who I brought up,

1116
01:42:00,640 --> 01:42:03,600
who took it seriously. But when
I mentioned Goldwater's name and they got that

1117
01:42:03,680 --> 01:42:08,800
these were authentic documents, they started
arguing with each other, and after a

1118
01:42:08,880 --> 01:42:13,680
while it wasn't so much fun.
But yeah, I think again. Also,

1119
01:42:13,840 --> 01:42:16,800
we have to remember that the climate
is getting better. It's certainly not

1120
01:42:17,079 --> 01:42:21,560
you cleared airspace yet, but it
is. As I said, more and

1121
01:42:21,680 --> 01:42:26,439
more people care less and less about
what other people think about what they think

1122
01:42:26,560 --> 01:42:30,880
about this important subject right right.
You know, there's an interesting question that

1123
01:42:30,039 --> 01:42:34,560
came on came up that kind of
skims around the topic that we've talked about

1124
01:42:34,600 --> 01:42:39,720
tonight, and this comes from Carrie
as well. In the UFO field,

1125
01:42:39,760 --> 01:42:44,199
we tend to think about government agencies
keeping secrets from the public. Have you

1126
01:42:44,439 --> 01:42:48,920
ever thought about how much of a
burden it would be for the individuals involved

1127
01:42:48,960 --> 01:42:55,560
in knowing the truth about alien interaction
with our planet and keeping the secret from

1128
01:42:55,640 --> 01:43:00,560
the public. Do you have an
opinion on that? Carry thought about regularly

1129
01:43:00,640 --> 01:43:03,960
for decades. I am one of
those people who, and it's not always

1130
01:43:03,960 --> 01:43:08,039
a good thing. I tend to
see both sides of an argument fairly clearly.

1131
01:43:08,560 --> 01:43:12,439
Even when I come down very solidly
on one side, I can still

1132
01:43:12,560 --> 01:43:18,800
have some understanding and compassion for people
on the other side. My best sense,

1133
01:43:19,199 --> 01:43:25,760
and it's more intuitive than documented,
is that people in a number of

1134
01:43:28,119 --> 01:43:32,279
secret levels who are cleared to no
certain amounts of information about this, but

1135
01:43:32,560 --> 01:43:36,520
of course are not able to talk
about it publicly, struggle with it.

1136
01:43:38,520 --> 01:43:42,159
A good number of them probably want
to keep up the status quo because it

1137
01:43:42,199 --> 01:43:46,680
will be that so embarrassing if we
have to go forward and admit that we've

1138
01:43:46,720 --> 01:43:51,520
been lying to the American public and
the world for so long, and other

1139
01:43:51,600 --> 01:43:57,479
ones who really want to see this
come out, and there may be more

1140
01:43:57,560 --> 01:44:00,520
infighting going on behind the scenes than
we imagine. One thing to remember,

1141
01:44:00,960 --> 01:44:04,119
if we still lived in a world
where say a president of the United States

1142
01:44:04,199 --> 01:44:08,079
could do this on their own,
and that time has been gone for decades,

1143
01:44:08,359 --> 01:44:12,880
Harry Truman could have done it.
Probably President Eisenhower could have done it.

1144
01:44:12,960 --> 01:44:15,399
By Kennedy, I don't think so. There's too many considerations. There's

1145
01:44:15,439 --> 01:44:21,560
too many. You'd have to network, you'd have to coordinate, you'd have

1146
01:44:21,680 --> 01:44:28,680
to counsel. But let's just say
we lived in a world where whoever's president

1147
01:44:28,800 --> 01:44:32,079
right now, it's Donald Trump.
I think who knows what, if anything,

1148
01:44:32,159 --> 01:44:36,560
he's been cleared to know about this
subject. I think each president is

1149
01:44:38,159 --> 01:44:45,960
informed or lacks information, depending on
how the secret keepers and members key members

1150
01:44:45,000 --> 01:44:51,560
of the intelligence community feel about them
as individuals and as leaders. But no

1151
01:44:51,760 --> 01:44:58,479
American president would do it because the
secrets started here in the moment they said,

1152
01:44:59,000 --> 01:45:01,560
my fellow Americans, it's my solemn
duty to inform you that since nineteen

1153
01:45:01,640 --> 01:45:05,479
forty seven at least we have been
aware. Blah blah blah blahah. They

1154
01:45:05,840 --> 01:45:12,840
would be admitting that they had been
a co conspirator along with their Democratic and

1155
01:45:12,920 --> 01:45:17,279
Republican, liberal and conservative counterparts,
going back to Harry Truman, in the

1156
01:45:17,359 --> 01:45:23,760
greatest cover up in human history.
And I don't think any world leader wants

1157
01:45:23,800 --> 01:45:28,960
to take that on themselves, certainly
not an American president. If he did,

1158
01:45:29,000 --> 01:45:33,479
he had tweeted out. Don't you
think probably would be a tweet,

1159
01:45:33,840 --> 01:45:38,840
one of those tweets. Yeah,
we're not alone and it's huge. Yeah,

1160
01:45:40,119 --> 01:45:43,680
all right. Hey, Peter,
someone asked earlier, if you're going

1161
01:45:43,720 --> 01:45:47,640
to be speaking like any tour around
a different areas this year, do you

1162
01:45:47,680 --> 01:45:54,479
have any engagement speaking engagements lined up. I'm working on a number of them

1163
01:45:54,840 --> 01:45:59,680
right now. Most of my time
has spent with my dad, who is

1164
01:45:59,720 --> 01:46:03,199
advanced age. I am as caregiver. He's a great guy. I love

1165
01:46:03,279 --> 01:46:09,159
him and that's what I'm doing most
of the time now. But it's not

1166
01:46:09,239 --> 01:46:13,439
a hardship. It's just the way
it should be. I have a talk

1167
01:46:13,520 --> 01:46:17,720
coming up in New York State on
June ninth, which is a Saturday,

1168
01:46:18,000 --> 01:46:23,159
in the beautiful little town of Orleans, New York, that maybe three of

1169
01:46:23,239 --> 01:46:28,640
your listeners might be able to get
to. I'm right now networking with friends

1170
01:46:28,680 --> 01:46:33,319
and colleagues in the Midwest in California
to bring me to both locations for an

1171
01:46:33,359 --> 01:46:38,640
extensive series of talks in both places. I've got a number coming up in

1172
01:46:40,920 --> 01:46:45,239
New England at the end of this
summer, starting with the Exeter, New

1173
01:46:45,279 --> 01:46:50,439
Hampshire UFO Festival and Conference, one
of my favorites that I'll see you there

1174
01:46:50,479 --> 01:46:55,560
out Yeah. Yeah, Actually,
I'm gonna be doing I'm trying to work

1175
01:46:55,600 --> 01:46:58,239
it out to do a show there
on Saturday, a live show. Oh

1176
01:46:58,279 --> 01:47:01,319
wonderful. Yeah, heiter, We
have another caller. Caller, your first

1177
01:47:01,439 --> 01:47:05,079
name and where are you calling from? Uh? Hi, my name is

1178
01:47:05,079 --> 01:47:12,600
Adam and I'm calling from New York. Adam show my hometown Oh yeah,

1179
01:47:12,680 --> 01:47:15,479
I was. I'm happy to sell
a New York or call on ye here

1180
01:47:15,479 --> 01:47:19,960
right, you have a question for
Peter, Yes I do. Um.

1181
01:47:20,039 --> 01:47:26,960
Actually a first quick thought, Um, I've I've heard that if only one

1182
01:47:27,079 --> 01:47:30,560
particle, if we had one more
particle or one must particle during the Big

1183
01:47:30,640 --> 01:47:33,960
Bang, um, that white as
we know it would not exist. I

1184
01:47:34,079 --> 01:47:38,199
wouldn't be able to exist, you
know, everything would be completely different.

1185
01:47:38,640 --> 01:47:41,239
And with that in mind, I
was wondering, Uh, if you have

1186
01:47:41,640 --> 01:47:44,479
heard of the stimulation theory, and
if what are your thoughts on that.

1187
01:47:45,520 --> 01:47:48,680
I haven't heard of it, so
I have no thoughts on it. Okay.

1188
01:47:49,399 --> 01:47:54,920
Um, oh, well, it's
just a theory that perhaps reality as

1189
01:47:54,960 --> 01:47:58,640
we know it is just a simulation. Oh um, that we are a

1190
01:47:58,960 --> 01:48:04,920
computer program Yeah we sort of.
Yeah, um yeah, I guess for

1191
01:48:05,079 --> 01:48:12,000
me, we when we begin to
debate or philosophize or look into such matters,

1192
01:48:12,760 --> 01:48:16,279
we're really kind of stringing things together
by spider webs. We're working on

1193
01:48:16,399 --> 01:48:29,039
intuition, myth belief, longing hypotheses. Very interesting, but I know how

1194
01:48:29,119 --> 01:48:33,039
much talk into it, not even
that. I just I think it's such

1195
01:48:33,039 --> 01:48:41,439
a huge consideration and I'm not a
scientific person. I've trained myself and I've

1196
01:48:41,439 --> 01:48:45,079
studied in certain areas to understand basic
concepts or gone off on tangents and read

1197
01:48:45,119 --> 01:48:50,199
papers relative to research that I'm doing. But I don't think I'm very well

1198
01:48:50,319 --> 01:48:57,640
qualified to answer that question because I
don't have enough information to have an informed

1199
01:48:57,680 --> 01:49:01,119
opinion about it, and a lot
of time times in life, especially in

1200
01:49:01,560 --> 01:49:04,760
this area, where after forty years, I know how little I know,

1201
01:49:06,039 --> 01:49:11,119
I choose not to have an opinion
if I don't have enough information to have

1202
01:49:11,239 --> 01:49:16,279
an intelligent or basically informed opinion with
respect, well I'll just go. Yeah,

1203
01:49:16,399 --> 01:49:21,239
just a little thought on that myself
is I just think there's so many

1204
01:49:21,560 --> 01:49:26,079
things that needed to happen for there
to be life. I mean, just

1205
01:49:26,760 --> 01:49:30,880
for life to happen on Earth,
for instance, like just the fact if

1206
01:49:30,159 --> 01:49:33,600
ice didn't float, there would be
no life, you know. I mean,

1207
01:49:33,680 --> 01:49:36,199
it's one little, tiny, little
simple thing, and there are so

1208
01:49:36,359 --> 01:49:42,880
many simple things that made life possible. So yeah, it's all it's an

1209
01:49:42,920 --> 01:49:45,880
interesting subject. I appreciate the call. Where near the end of the show,

1210
01:49:45,479 --> 01:49:50,000
thank you, madam, give my
regards for going with Yeah, all

1211
01:49:50,079 --> 01:49:53,920
right, have a good night,
guy, all right, you two all

1212
01:49:54,000 --> 01:49:58,159
right, So Peter so, um, can you give out your website one

1213
01:49:58,199 --> 01:50:02,479
more time? Yeah, it's my
name and the initials of my home state,

1214
01:50:02,880 --> 01:50:09,079
Peter Robbins R O, B B
I, M s NY dot com.

1215
01:50:09,520 --> 01:50:13,840
And it is sorely in need of
updating. But again relative to the

1216
01:50:13,960 --> 01:50:19,359
situation we discussed earlier, Front and
Center is a long paper on my feelings

1217
01:50:19,399 --> 01:50:23,720
about that. Yes, all right, Peter, thanks so much. As

1218
01:50:23,800 --> 01:50:27,079
always, it's a pleasure to talk
to you, and well I'll be seeing

1219
01:50:27,159 --> 01:50:30,560
you. One question came in in
the chat room some to know if you

1220
01:50:30,640 --> 01:50:34,640
were going to go to the Philadelphia
and Moufon convention this year. As things

1221
01:50:34,720 --> 01:50:41,359
stand right now, I am scheduled
to mc that conference. Oh excellent.

1222
01:50:41,920 --> 01:50:44,279
All right, Peter, thanks so
much, and we'll be seeing you an

1223
01:50:44,319 --> 01:50:47,560
Exeter. I'll look forward to it. Martin. Always a pleasure working with

1224
01:50:47,720 --> 01:50:53,680
you. Thank you, yes,
and thank you. Thank you for the

1225
01:50:54,000 --> 01:50:58,800
situation that you handled so well with
Larry Warren. I appreciate that as a

1226
01:50:59,600 --> 01:51:02,279
r if I person. Thank you
back at your brother. All right,

1227
01:51:03,199 --> 01:51:08,479
okay, everyone, so that's it
for our show and we'll be back next

1228
01:51:08,560 --> 01:51:14,800
week and we have Grant Cameron on
next week and right, yeah, so

1229
01:51:15,199 --> 01:51:19,560
I want to thank everyone that supports
the show, and I also want to

1230
01:51:19,600 --> 01:51:24,199
thank the people that help out.
Alejandro Rojas unfortunately didn't have much of a

1231
01:51:24,239 --> 01:51:27,960
show today. I want to thank
our guest of course, Peter Robbins and

1232
01:51:28,560 --> 01:51:32,520
Evan behind the scenes, Peggy for
helping out with the Facebook page. Remember

1233
01:51:32,560 --> 01:51:38,359
to like us on Facebook for all
the UFO latest news and that's updated every

1234
01:51:38,439 --> 01:51:42,359
day. All right, So we'll
be back next week, and don't forget

1235
01:51:42,479 --> 01:51:46,119
two weeks from today. We're going
to be starting on Tuesday nights and at

1236
01:51:46,239 --> 01:51:50,399
six to eight, and we're going
to be over on KGr A Radio as

1237
01:51:50,439 --> 01:51:55,399
well. All right, thanks so
much. Remember to keep your eyes to

1238
01:51:55,560 --> 01:51:55,960
the sky.