1 00:00:17,079 --> 00:00:20,960 We're back with another edition of The Federalist Radio Hour. I'm Emily Drishanski, 2 00:00:21,039 --> 00:00:23,519 culture editor here at the Federalist. As always, you can email the show 3 00:00:23,519 --> 00:00:27,239 at radio at the Federalist dot com, follow us on Twitter at fdr LST. 4 00:00:27,480 --> 00:00:30,640 Make sure to subscribe wherever you download your podcasts, and to the premium 5 00:00:30,719 --> 00:00:34,399 version of our website as well. Today I'm joined once again by my colleague 6 00:00:34,560 --> 00:00:38,640 Eddie Scary. He is at The Federalist. You'll see him on TV and 7 00:00:38,719 --> 00:00:42,799 you can even read his books. Eddie, where can people read your books? 8 00:00:43,679 --> 00:00:46,600 You can? The best place to go is always, always, always 9 00:00:46,719 --> 00:00:50,880 Amazon dot com. Just search for my name and the list of books will 10 00:00:50,880 --> 00:00:54,600 come up, and that's always the easiest way to do it. But the 11 00:00:54,880 --> 00:00:58,079 Amazon. I'm actually surprised when you said the bet, because usually when people 12 00:00:58,079 --> 00:01:00,320 come on and they've written books, they say the best thing to do is 13 00:01:00,359 --> 00:01:04,040 go right to the publisher's website or go to your local book score You, 14 00:01:04,200 --> 00:01:07,959 Eddie, you're just like give your money to Jeff Bezos. Huh. I 15 00:01:07,000 --> 00:01:11,680 wonder why, Actually I wonder why people say that because I think it because 16 00:01:11,680 --> 00:01:17,640 of Amazon. Oh, because like just because of being Amazon, I guess 17 00:01:17,680 --> 00:01:19,959 that's true, but I would imagine that so many of so many of the 18 00:01:21,040 --> 00:01:23,640 listeners and just people in general, just like they Amazons was, they get 19 00:01:23,680 --> 00:01:27,920 so many things. So that's just what I know where I direct people. 20 00:01:27,920 --> 00:01:30,799 I feel like that's the easiest thing. Also to say, I've been adjusting 21 00:01:30,840 --> 00:01:34,159 the levels on the microphones as we started here because I'm so I'm not used 22 00:01:34,159 --> 00:01:38,719 to somebody who actually talks into the microphone. I'm used to Chris Bedford who's 23 00:01:38,719 --> 00:01:42,280 always the three feet away from the microphone, and I have to like try 24 00:01:42,280 --> 00:01:46,239 to adjust it on the fly as he's just moving around. Well, actually 25 00:01:46,200 --> 00:01:51,000 I went back and listened to the podcast. Actually was the video I was 26 00:01:51,040 --> 00:01:55,120 looking at. It was me, you and Chris, So like this was 27 00:01:55,159 --> 00:01:57,319 like was this last summer or two summers we were in the old office. 28 00:01:57,400 --> 00:02:00,599 Yeah, but something was wrong with my I'm Mike, and so I just 29 00:02:00,719 --> 00:02:04,239 like I feel like I have to like be right on top of it right 30 00:02:04,280 --> 00:02:07,359 now. But no, it's it's it's actually what people are supposed to do 31 00:02:07,400 --> 00:02:10,319 when they are using microphones. You actually try to speak into the microphone. 32 00:02:12,080 --> 00:02:15,159 Doing it right. So far, so good. No, I wanted to 33 00:02:15,159 --> 00:02:16,919 talk to Eddie about who By the way, Eddie says he's barbied out, 34 00:02:16,960 --> 00:02:20,840 so I won't drag him. And although it may happen, we don't know, 35 00:02:21,280 --> 00:02:24,120 But we haven't really done a big sort of overview of what's happened in 36 00:02:24,159 --> 00:02:28,560 twenty twenty four in a while. Um, And that's I think useful. 37 00:02:28,560 --> 00:02:31,439 As we're three weeks away from the debate the debates on August twenty third. 38 00:02:32,120 --> 00:02:37,199 Today is what August third, so we're twenty days away from the first debate. 39 00:02:37,240 --> 00:02:39,400 It looks like the foreign President isn't going to speak. His margin or 40 00:02:39,520 --> 00:02:44,319 isn't going to debate. His margin with around de Santis has grown in the 41 00:02:44,360 --> 00:02:47,120 wake of the three indictments and continuing law fairs. It's not just those three 42 00:02:47,159 --> 00:02:52,520 indictments, it's threats of more indictments. It's Fanny Willis in Fulton County threatening 43 00:02:52,560 --> 00:02:59,039 all kinds of stuff too. So as that's happened to the bafflement of Dana 44 00:02:59,080 --> 00:03:01,280 Bash. Did you see the of Dana Bash. She was talking to Frank 45 00:03:01,400 --> 00:03:06,919 Lentz on CNN this week and was like, who are these people that continue 46 00:03:06,960 --> 00:03:09,840 to support Donald Trump after watching what he did on January six? And she 47 00:03:09,960 --> 00:03:15,080 just couldn't ever hid around it. Yeah, I saw that there was so 48 00:03:15,280 --> 00:03:19,400 I saw that he she was interviewing Frank Lentz. And actually that is the 49 00:03:19,520 --> 00:03:23,840 reason I did not click that video because I do not like Frank Lentz. 50 00:03:23,840 --> 00:03:25,800 And it was like when I saw that clip, it had nothing to do 51 00:03:25,879 --> 00:03:29,240 with her and everything. It was just like his assessment of things, and 52 00:03:29,360 --> 00:03:32,319 he's been wrong for so long now and so many things. If you remember, 53 00:03:32,360 --> 00:03:36,599 going back to twenty sixteen, he got the Trump stuff wrong all the 54 00:03:36,680 --> 00:03:39,400 time. I remember it was after one of the debates. This is a 55 00:03:39,439 --> 00:03:46,120 Republican primary debate going into twenty sixteen and immediate I don't even remember what the 56 00:03:46,639 --> 00:03:51,439 what the reason for this was. But when he when the debate was over, 57 00:03:51,560 --> 00:03:55,159 Lunch is on Fox and says, what I just saw was a campaign, 58 00:03:55,280 --> 00:04:00,120 the Trump campaign just completely implode on Live tell of Vision and We're like 59 00:04:00,360 --> 00:04:04,080 and this was like several debates in but I'm just thinking, like, what, 60 00:04:04,520 --> 00:04:08,039 why are you saying that? And of course he was wrong. He 61 00:04:08,120 --> 00:04:10,879 was just wrong so many times. So anyway, that kind of beside the 62 00:04:10,879 --> 00:04:13,240 point. But that's why I didn't watch that clip. But I have heard 63 00:04:13,280 --> 00:04:16,639 since that she had this you know this whole amused expression about there are actually 64 00:04:16,639 --> 00:04:19,720 people who still like Donald Trump. Well, and it's also like it's so 65 00:04:19,959 --> 00:04:25,600 backwards, it's that's the reason you're wondering why people still support Donald Trump, 66 00:04:25,639 --> 00:04:28,879 is exactly why they are continuing to support Donald Trump, or by the way, 67 00:04:28,879 --> 00:04:31,879 are deciding they have to go with Trump over somebody like de Santis. 68 00:04:31,879 --> 00:04:34,600 And this is where I was going to take it, because the more oxygen 69 00:04:34,639 --> 00:04:40,959 Trump gets in the media for being the target of now three indictments and whatever 70 00:04:41,000 --> 00:04:45,959 other lawfair comes his way, and honestly just continuing to be the single target 71 00:04:46,199 --> 00:04:50,199 of the left's ap program, the left's political focus. He is the political 72 00:04:50,240 --> 00:04:55,199 focus of the left right now, continues to be and so long as that 73 00:04:55,319 --> 00:04:58,680 is the case, so long as he is dominating the media, first of 74 00:04:58,720 --> 00:05:01,000 all, people are going to say, I'm not voting for anybody else because 75 00:05:01,079 --> 00:05:04,519 this is the guy that is their enemy. Therefore he's the only person. 76 00:05:04,800 --> 00:05:09,240 I'm not endorsing that argument, but that's the logic, like, therefore he's 77 00:05:09,279 --> 00:05:13,560 the only person that should be the nominee he had. It has to be 78 00:05:13,680 --> 00:05:16,199 him because he is the symbol of everything and he's the only one that can 79 00:05:16,240 --> 00:05:19,759 stand up against it. But on the other hand, it's also just like 80 00:05:20,000 --> 00:05:26,839 man, you continue to talk about him every second of every day. Of 81 00:05:26,879 --> 00:05:30,560 course, he's pulling away in the polls, right, And I think it 82 00:05:30,680 --> 00:05:36,399 is in large part these the the continued persecution of Donald Trump, which Donald 83 00:05:36,480 --> 00:05:43,920 J. Trump, Donald J. Trump, that his supporters rightfully see as 84 00:05:43,959 --> 00:05:49,000 an attack also on them, because I look at these indictments that are there, 85 00:05:49,240 --> 00:05:54,120 you know, it's one after the other. And I think that didn't 86 00:05:54,120 --> 00:05:59,800 just this week or last week we visited and revisited an older one to add 87 00:06:00,079 --> 00:06:05,480 more charges. Didn't that just happen with the Florida records thing? They added 88 00:06:05,480 --> 00:06:12,480 like another like Jack Smith added charges of tampering with evidence. I think allegedly 89 00:06:12,480 --> 00:06:15,279 deut it's just suching so ridiculous, which is a hilarious thing to do, 90 00:06:16,120 --> 00:06:20,120 right Yeah. But I think that people look at that and say, which 91 00:06:20,319 --> 00:06:24,839 which I keep doing, is say, is the juice really worth the squeeze 92 00:06:24,879 --> 00:06:28,959 on this with with with going after Trump and what the charges are. And 93 00:06:29,000 --> 00:06:33,519 I think that the logical end to that is this isn't really just about Donald 94 00:06:33,519 --> 00:06:39,040 Trump. It's about everything he represents and all the people he represents. So 95 00:06:39,240 --> 00:06:43,160 I think, yeah, there's a big dig in among his supporters and among 96 00:06:43,279 --> 00:06:46,920 Republican voters who say, no, I'm definitely sticking by this guy. In 97 00:06:46,959 --> 00:06:50,560 addition to also feeling like he was robbed of a second term, they want 98 00:06:50,600 --> 00:06:55,040 to see that second term, if for no other reason than just for the 99 00:06:55,040 --> 00:06:59,720 principle of it. And then, of course, a really big thing is 100 00:06:59,759 --> 00:07:05,600 that even his closest competitor, which would be run de Santis, is just 101 00:07:06,000 --> 00:07:13,519 not campaigning in any standout way. I would say, for me, someone 102 00:07:13,560 --> 00:07:16,360 who really had who continues to have high hopes for him, but really did 103 00:07:18,560 --> 00:07:23,800 it has been such a disappointment so far. And so if you're you're looking 104 00:07:23,800 --> 00:07:26,959 at that, I mean I looked at I was just looking at the five 105 00:07:27,160 --> 00:07:30,759 thirty eight, like I stay average poles, kind of like our real clear 106 00:07:30,759 --> 00:07:34,720 politics does. And just from the time that the Santis had declared that he 107 00:07:34,759 --> 00:07:38,720 was running, you look back, there was like a seven point gap between 108 00:07:38,800 --> 00:07:44,079 him and Donald Trump. Since then that it has not changed whatsoever in terms 109 00:07:44,079 --> 00:07:46,480 of like there hasn't been no up and down or anything. It's just been 110 00:07:46,560 --> 00:07:49,920 down. The gap has just continued to grow and grow and grow. It's 111 00:07:49,959 --> 00:07:55,079 probably at its biggest point today. The trend has just been just a gap 112 00:07:55,160 --> 00:07:59,199 growing Donald Trump pulling away. He's now at what above around fifty fifty one 113 00:07:59,199 --> 00:08:05,600 percent support him on Republican voters nationwide. So if he has no real competition 114 00:08:05,680 --> 00:08:09,000 to speak of, of course he's going to be the front runner. Yeah, 115 00:08:09,000 --> 00:08:11,759 And that's what's that's actually really interesting because on the one hand, I 116 00:08:11,839 --> 00:08:13,920 do think it's true. Round to Santis could run a perfect campaign. He 117 00:08:13,959 --> 00:08:18,040 could run the campaign that he ran for real election in Florida, which was 118 00:08:18,079 --> 00:08:22,439 a great campaign. He took a bear a sort of a slim margin of 119 00:08:22,519 --> 00:08:26,759 victory the term before or on his first election and turned it into huge growth 120 00:08:26,879 --> 00:08:33,639 in Florida by policies and by the campaign, and it just he could do 121 00:08:33,679 --> 00:08:35,720 that. He could replicate that on a national scale if that were possible. 122 00:08:35,720 --> 00:08:39,840 I'm just speaking about the sort of hypothetical fantasy here he could have done that, 123 00:08:39,120 --> 00:08:43,159 And I still think, you know, maybe he would have it up 124 00:08:43,159 --> 00:08:45,720 to ten points, the gap you know between him and Trump, up to 125 00:08:45,759 --> 00:08:48,200 ten points instead of whatever it is now, which is like sixty to twenty 126 00:08:48,360 --> 00:08:52,200 is something crazy like that. And on the other hand, the campaign, 127 00:08:52,320 --> 00:08:56,320 a lot of people probably saw the news that it shut about a third of 128 00:08:56,360 --> 00:09:01,120 its staff, although none of that staff seems to have been the very highest 129 00:09:01,200 --> 00:09:05,759 level, right, And that to me is the craziest thing. It makes 130 00:09:05,799 --> 00:09:09,559 sense if you're cash strapped and you have to save some money on the staffing 131 00:09:09,639 --> 00:09:13,000 level. It does not make any sense to me that you are, what, 132 00:09:13,159 --> 00:09:18,960 two months into your run and you're cash strapped, that you are having 133 00:09:18,000 --> 00:09:22,080 the opposite trajectory of what you said you wouldn't what you wanted to have on 134 00:09:22,159 --> 00:09:26,720 top of being cash strapped, and you are getting rid of nobody at the 135 00:09:26,759 --> 00:09:28,840 top, right, Like, that's a situation where the only thing that seems 136 00:09:28,879 --> 00:09:31,279 to me can rescue the campaign. And by the way, I did think 137 00:09:31,279 --> 00:09:35,080 his economic agenda roll out this week was good. I think what he put 138 00:09:35,080 --> 00:09:39,480 out there was interesting. And we'll talk about this in a second, but 139 00:09:39,519 --> 00:09:43,000 I thought a pretty good bridge between sort of old right and new right that 140 00:09:43,120 --> 00:09:46,320 said, if you're not getting rid of any of the people that steered you 141 00:09:46,399 --> 00:09:50,919 into the ditch, how should anybody have faith that this is going to get 142 00:09:50,960 --> 00:09:54,360 better? If Trump's not even going to get on the debate stage because he 143 00:09:54,360 --> 00:09:58,840 doesn't feel any pressure to debate you, right, And I think that he 144 00:09:58,919 --> 00:10:05,159 has a perfectly f in good economic platform. I watched his speech, not 145 00:10:05,279 --> 00:10:09,240 a good speech giver. Um, he's pretty he's pretty stiff and boring, 146 00:10:09,279 --> 00:10:15,279 and you can see the crowd is not super engaged with you, you even 147 00:10:15,320 --> 00:10:18,720 really see, which is probably the you know, the kind of biggest letdown 148 00:10:18,960 --> 00:10:22,799 is that they seem very unsure of when they should be clapping, or if 149 00:10:22,840 --> 00:10:26,679 they should clap at all. You might hear a smattering and then he kind 150 00:10:26,679 --> 00:10:28,440 of waits to see if there's going to be more, and than there really 151 00:10:28,519 --> 00:10:31,799 isn't. But otherwise, what does he do? And I predicted this, 152 00:10:31,840 --> 00:10:35,320 and maybe maybe it was already scheduled and I just didn't know it or hadn't 153 00:10:35,360 --> 00:10:39,440 seen it. But I wrote how because I got his campaign email that said 154 00:10:39,480 --> 00:10:43,080 he was gonna that morning at eleven forty five that morning, he was going 155 00:10:43,159 --> 00:10:46,960 to be giving his economic speech. And I went to tweet, Um, 156 00:10:46,120 --> 00:10:50,320 yeah, he'll give an economic speech, then he'll go do an interview on 157 00:10:50,360 --> 00:10:54,559 Fox And oh, absolutely no attention paid to this thing whatsoever. What did 158 00:10:54,559 --> 00:10:58,440 he do? His interview was with Brett Baer. Then I watched the interview 159 00:10:58,519 --> 00:11:01,080 had actually had some some good moments. Trump freaked out about it too, 160 00:11:01,159 --> 00:11:05,000 which is always a sign that you got under someone's skin. Yeah, because 161 00:11:05,039 --> 00:11:07,559 actually, of the two parts, I can't remember what the second one was. 162 00:11:07,960 --> 00:11:13,799 But what I found most notable about that that interview was when he talked 163 00:11:13,799 --> 00:11:18,600 about He's I'm paraphrasing a little bit, but he basically said during COVID he 164 00:11:18,639 --> 00:11:22,840 was like, I was fighting against the administration to keep Florida open. That's 165 00:11:22,840 --> 00:11:26,799 what he said. I was like, that's the contrast that people need to 166 00:11:26,879 --> 00:11:31,120 hear, and that you know, it's it's newsy because it's conflict between two 167 00:11:31,200 --> 00:11:35,080 people who right now it's kind of going between them. But that's the kind 168 00:11:35,080 --> 00:11:37,159 of thing we need to hear. But when you hear it on Fox, 169 00:11:37,360 --> 00:11:41,480 and it's the Fox audience that already knows Ronda santiss I just don't think it 170 00:11:41,519 --> 00:11:46,480 matters. But yeah, he back to your other point about the campaign. 171 00:11:46,519 --> 00:11:50,759 You know, we're reading all this stuff about the shakeups. That has blown 172 00:11:50,799 --> 00:11:54,039 my mind as well. He when these news stories first started coming out, 173 00:11:54,080 --> 00:12:00,320 I believe it was political that was reporting on this big donor retreat that they 174 00:12:00,360 --> 00:12:05,639 had I think in like Colorado or something, and they were quoting his campaign 175 00:12:05,639 --> 00:12:11,240 manager as having told attendees. Again, these are all big donors having told 176 00:12:11,279 --> 00:12:13,480 them, yeah, we spent too much money, but we're going to turn 177 00:12:13,519 --> 00:12:16,120 things around right now. And it's like, well, whose call was that? 178 00:12:16,679 --> 00:12:20,840 Is the campaign manager? Why why are you still there? And this 179 00:12:20,919 --> 00:12:24,679 isn't a thing that has happened within We're like, when didn't he launch in 180 00:12:24,759 --> 00:12:28,360 like March? No, DeSantis, I think he launched in June? Really 181 00:12:28,440 --> 00:12:33,120 was it June? Or let me it wasn't that long ago? Or I 182 00:12:33,159 --> 00:12:35,120 feel like it was a little bit further back. But but either way, 183 00:12:35,320 --> 00:12:39,440 that's you know, we're what two months into it or so, and I 184 00:12:39,440 --> 00:12:45,279 mean that's two months that we've been going in the wrong direction. Whose call 185 00:12:45,440 --> 00:12:48,879 is that? June fourteenth? Was it June fourteenth? I'm sorry? May 186 00:12:48,960 --> 00:12:52,320 twenty fourth? Okay, May okay? What did I say? March? 187 00:12:52,480 --> 00:12:56,360 So we were in between there? Yeah? So yeah, But again, 188 00:12:56,399 --> 00:13:00,399 like so, this isn't a super super fresh, brand new campaign where there 189 00:13:00,440 --> 00:13:03,039 was a like a few days of missteps. This was something that's been going 190 00:13:03,080 --> 00:13:05,320 on for several weeks now, and for her to go on and say that 191 00:13:05,519 --> 00:13:09,200 one of the biggest things we spent too much money. That is your call, 192 00:13:09,480 --> 00:13:11,960 right, You're the person who should be who should be fired, and 193 00:13:13,000 --> 00:13:15,240 I hate to see anyone lose their job. And I mean, I will 194 00:13:15,279 --> 00:13:20,120 say that some of the layoffs that I saw happen, I am in favor 195 00:13:20,159 --> 00:13:22,759 of them. I felt like there were certain people who were hired by this 196 00:13:22,799 --> 00:13:26,000 campaign that they I don't know. I honestly, there was like this, 197 00:13:26,480 --> 00:13:28,440 I don't want to get into too many names. I don't think most people 198 00:13:28,480 --> 00:13:31,399 care about, like a twenty five year old who was very known for being 199 00:13:31,399 --> 00:13:35,960 a journalist kind of in DC, but obviously was of that of that segment 200 00:13:37,000 --> 00:13:39,039 of Twitter that gets a kick out of, you know, the memes and 201 00:13:39,080 --> 00:13:43,000 the trolling, and I think that was kind of what what did him in 202 00:13:43,039 --> 00:13:46,240 with the campaign. So I supported some of these layoffs. But I mean, 203 00:13:46,320 --> 00:13:50,279 if you're really going to do it and make a difference and needs to 204 00:13:50,279 --> 00:13:52,120 be that, it needs to be the top don't get rid of the twenty 205 00:13:52,120 --> 00:13:56,759 five year old memers, right yeah yeah? Or who's telling them to do 206 00:13:56,840 --> 00:14:00,480 the means to both I guess well, but they're still getting in direction from 207 00:14:00,519 --> 00:14:03,440 the top down, right yeah yeah. And then and speaking of the top 208 00:14:03,559 --> 00:14:09,200 down, a lot of this is also DeSantis his fault in that this incredibly 209 00:14:09,360 --> 00:14:15,320 safe, take no risks media strategy that he has where he wants to go 210 00:14:15,399 --> 00:14:18,360 nowhere outside of the people who he already knows likes him. He wants to 211 00:14:18,399 --> 00:14:22,360 stay at Fox, he wants to do what Joe Rogan he wants to do 212 00:14:22,440 --> 00:14:24,360 Russell Russell brand. Which it was a really good interview I did. I 213 00:14:24,399 --> 00:14:28,360 did listen to that podcast. You thought that I didn't listen. How did 214 00:14:28,360 --> 00:14:30,679 it go? It was good. I was listening on my way back driving 215 00:14:30,720 --> 00:14:33,440 from driving back from South Carolina. It was good. I didn't think it 216 00:14:33,519 --> 00:14:35,559 was. Again, this is the problem with these It wasn't super newsy. 217 00:14:35,639 --> 00:14:39,200 If you would ask me like the one thing I remember, I can't. 218 00:14:39,240 --> 00:14:41,759 I don't remember much from it, but it was. It was a good 219 00:14:41,840 --> 00:14:45,919 chat. And so like he's better in the podcast format necessarily perhaps than he 220 00:14:46,039 --> 00:14:48,159 is giving a speech. Oh for sure. That was what I meant by 221 00:14:48,399 --> 00:14:52,200 Yeah, he doesn't give a good speech, but he is really interesting to 222 00:14:52,240 --> 00:14:56,039 watch when he is being challenged on something and being challenged from somebody who it 223 00:14:56,120 --> 00:15:00,960 actually matters. What I mean by that is what people What he became legendary 224 00:15:01,000 --> 00:15:05,519 for was doing these press press briefings with adversarial reporters. They'd ask him questions 225 00:15:05,519 --> 00:15:09,600 and he would totally shut it down, mastery of the material, understands the 226 00:15:09,600 --> 00:15:13,759 facts, would completely refute the premise of the question, which is something that 227 00:15:13,879 --> 00:15:18,200 is so important for every Republican anymore. That's like the rule number one to 228 00:15:18,240 --> 00:15:22,559 being a Republican, an effective Republican anymore, is completely refute the premise of 229 00:15:22,600 --> 00:15:26,720 anything that comes from from the press. He was great at that, and 230 00:15:26,759 --> 00:15:31,720 now he's completely lost that because he doesn't engage with any media right now. 231 00:15:31,919 --> 00:15:33,759 We saw him what he did Jake Tapper. It wasn't live. That was 232 00:15:33,799 --> 00:15:37,320 the weirdest decision I ever saw. He did the Jake Tapper interview and it 233 00:15:37,320 --> 00:15:39,519 wasn't live. So instead, what did we get? We would get a 234 00:15:39,600 --> 00:15:43,200 minute of clip with the Jake Tapper taped interview, then there'd be two minutes 235 00:15:43,200 --> 00:15:48,679 of Trump indictment news, and then another thirty seconds or a santence, then 236 00:15:48,720 --> 00:15:52,960 three more minutes of Trump of Trump indictment news. And how do you think 237 00:15:52,000 --> 00:15:56,240 CNN's gonna Do you think they're going to edit it to give to Santis the 238 00:15:56,279 --> 00:15:58,440 best edit against Tapper? Probably not right? Yeah, And I mean it 239 00:15:58,519 --> 00:16:02,559 was also again I think it was. That was also just not a very 240 00:16:02,559 --> 00:16:04,600 newsy interview to these things anymore. If you're going to agree to do these 241 00:16:04,639 --> 00:16:08,519 things, they have to be done live, and you have to you have 242 00:16:08,600 --> 00:16:11,039 to do them outside of Fox. It needs to be CNN, and it 243 00:16:11,080 --> 00:16:15,440 needs to be MSNBC, and it needs to be the network. Otherwise, 244 00:16:15,600 --> 00:16:18,720 just no one's going to pay attention, because that's where he excels is really 245 00:16:18,840 --> 00:16:22,399 when he's challenged and he can prove no, listen, you're you're wrong, 246 00:16:22,559 --> 00:16:25,559 the facts are on my side. Well, and that's what was so weird 247 00:16:25,600 --> 00:16:33,080 about the entire curriculum, like black studies curriculum backlash, is that, first 248 00:16:33,080 --> 00:16:38,200 of all, de Santis his gut reaction was I mean, maybe his actual 249 00:16:38,200 --> 00:16:42,960 reaction wasn't his gut reaction, but the reaction he went with instinctively was hey, 250 00:16:44,200 --> 00:16:45,799 I wasn't in charge of this, Like I didn't, you know. 251 00:16:45,799 --> 00:16:49,320 He kind of punted instead of leaning in and saying, you know, as 252 00:16:49,320 --> 00:16:53,320 he has done in the past, seeing this as an obvious political opportunity. 253 00:16:53,360 --> 00:16:59,000 It's like it's basically a layup for him to go in on the media, 254 00:16:59,159 --> 00:17:03,640 and what happens in that gap is media just went even like doubly as hard 255 00:17:03,680 --> 00:17:07,559 on run de Santis to the point where even some Republicans clearly believed the lie 256 00:17:08,079 --> 00:17:12,759 about that curriculum, believe bad argumentation about that curriculum. It just opened up 257 00:17:12,799 --> 00:17:17,119 this vacuum. And it's weird because I think this is fundamentally the problem with 258 00:17:17,119 --> 00:17:22,319 a Desantist campaign is that the never Trump establishment Republicans see DeSantis as their guy 259 00:17:22,440 --> 00:17:29,240 to take down Trump, and real conservatives, genuine conservatives, see DeSantis as 260 00:17:29,279 --> 00:17:32,440 a guy who can take down Trump. And so both of those groups of 261 00:17:32,440 --> 00:17:36,039 people and I'm saying this, like you Eddie, as somebody who did like 262 00:17:36,160 --> 00:17:38,359 a lot of what Santas and still do like a lot of what DeSantis does. 263 00:17:38,839 --> 00:17:44,240 You you have those two groups in a tug of war in the Desantist 264 00:17:44,279 --> 00:17:48,440 campaign. So you have some people that are genuine conservatives who want him to 265 00:17:48,599 --> 00:17:52,759 gut the administrative state, take down the surveillance state, and you know, 266 00:17:52,839 --> 00:17:56,880 go improve our education system, get the economy back and track etc. Etc. 267 00:17:57,279 --> 00:18:02,440 But they're in this tug of war with the establishment Republicans who still don't 268 00:18:02,480 --> 00:18:07,319 know how to campaign, who still think that campaigning is like getting a real 269 00:18:07,400 --> 00:18:11,039 win against Donald Trump is getting a Brett Bear one on one that doesn't make 270 00:18:11,079 --> 00:18:14,799 any news, but like, this is a real win for us, and 271 00:18:14,839 --> 00:18:17,279 I wonder if some of it, I'm curious for your take on this comes 272 00:18:17,319 --> 00:18:25,519 from that what was maybe traumatic for the campaign leadership the botched rollout with Elon 273 00:18:25,640 --> 00:18:29,960 Musk and David Sacks, And I actually, to this day don't think that 274 00:18:30,039 --> 00:18:33,519 was a bad decision. I think what was bad is that the campaign was 275 00:18:33,559 --> 00:18:37,160 too dumb to couple that announcement was something bigger, you know, with like 276 00:18:37,400 --> 00:18:42,319 a rally or some type of cool photo op with his family in Florida or 277 00:18:42,319 --> 00:18:47,079 something like that. And I wonder if his sort of he seems like he's 278 00:18:47,119 --> 00:18:49,160 not the same guy. He seems like he's lost his mojo, And I 279 00:18:49,160 --> 00:18:53,359 wonder if some of that comes down to just those establishment Republicans of the Desantist 280 00:18:53,359 --> 00:18:59,359 campaign, the professional consultant class, getting really freaked out by that one little 281 00:18:59,400 --> 00:19:02,839 new thing they tried and just saying, listen, we're not running this like 282 00:19:02,880 --> 00:19:07,079 new media campaign anymore. We're clamping down and we're controlling him. Yeah. 283 00:19:07,160 --> 00:19:08,359 I mean, it's interesting because, like you said, it is it is 284 00:19:08,400 --> 00:19:14,160 almost like and I was I've been kind of like teasing on Twitter these past 285 00:19:14,160 --> 00:19:18,400 few weeks where I would go find one of those old, really badass clips 286 00:19:18,440 --> 00:19:22,680 of de Santis just really hammering some reporter. Mostly it was on like the 287 00:19:22,720 --> 00:19:29,039 lockdown and lockdown and the COVID stuff, but also the the I know what 288 00:19:29,079 --> 00:19:30,640 they called it, don't say gay bill, but it was really the parental 289 00:19:30,720 --> 00:19:37,880 rights parental rights legislation that was passed in Florida, where he would just completely 290 00:19:37,960 --> 00:19:42,680 own the dim wet reporter asking these questions, and I would say, like 291 00:19:42,960 --> 00:19:48,599 with the tweet, I would kind of retweet the clip and say missing forty 292 00:19:48,720 --> 00:19:52,799 what does he like forty five or something? Forty five year old Florida man. 293 00:19:52,839 --> 00:19:56,000 If you if you know where this man is, contact your local authorities, 294 00:19:56,000 --> 00:20:00,400 because really it's like he's he's completely disappeared. Is that I'm not sure 295 00:20:00,440 --> 00:20:04,319 if he's gotten into his own head. You've heard a lot about how kind 296 00:20:04,359 --> 00:20:08,720 of what you're talking about the two different factions within the Republican Party there. 297 00:20:10,000 --> 00:20:14,039 There's been a lot written about that in terms of he's trying to marry two 298 00:20:14,960 --> 00:20:18,759 two factions that are not really compatible. So is he just completely losing it 299 00:20:18,839 --> 00:20:22,599 there? That could be the case, Um, I like you. I 300 00:20:22,640 --> 00:20:26,359 didn't. I didn't think there was anything wrong with them. The spaces, 301 00:20:26,599 --> 00:20:30,359 the Twitter spaces launch campaign launch. It was fine. And people had been 302 00:20:30,359 --> 00:20:33,480 talking, especially in that moment, a lot about Elon Musk and you know, 303 00:20:33,519 --> 00:20:37,279 buying Twitter. I thought that was an interesting decision. It was obviously 304 00:20:37,319 --> 00:20:41,839 botch for technical reasons. The feed kept get dropping, they couldn't keep it 305 00:20:41,920 --> 00:20:48,079 up. But yeah, I think not I expected this kind of blowing, 306 00:20:48,319 --> 00:20:51,440 this like this bowl coming out of the gates with his campaign, that would 307 00:20:51,440 --> 00:20:52,720 be he would be everywhere after it. And I mean, and it is 308 00:20:52,720 --> 00:20:57,359 a long campaign. I know that we're still a little bit early in the 309 00:20:57,400 --> 00:21:04,000 actual twenty twenty four UM election. However, to close a thirty point gap, 310 00:21:04,079 --> 00:21:07,960 that's not something that happens over the course of even just a month. 311 00:21:07,039 --> 00:21:11,480 I mean, I guess, I guess stranger things have happened, but that's 312 00:21:11,480 --> 00:21:17,119 something that you're going to have to eat away at very very like methodically deliberately. 313 00:21:18,160 --> 00:21:21,240 And I mean, I think like you have to sustain that and over 314 00:21:21,599 --> 00:21:25,279 an extended period of time. And so for him not to be doing that, 315 00:21:25,359 --> 00:21:27,960 and you know, and I think that was that was kind of Trump's 316 00:21:29,279 --> 00:21:33,480 understood the way he kind of understood things back when he was going to run 317 00:21:33,599 --> 00:21:37,359 because he was pulling down at like nine percent or something when m Jeb Bush 318 00:21:37,440 --> 00:21:40,200 was in like the thirties. But what did Trump do when he came out 319 00:21:40,200 --> 00:21:42,240 of the scene. He called like if he couldn't be there in person for 320 00:21:42,279 --> 00:21:45,000 an interview, he would call in. He would do it live, or 321 00:21:45,000 --> 00:21:48,720 he would do it whatever you wanted. I mean, I that was back 322 00:21:48,720 --> 00:21:52,759 when I was such a young reporter working at the Washington Examiner. I could 323 00:21:52,799 --> 00:21:56,000 get on the phone. Yeah, but very very young. I'm still very 324 00:21:56,000 --> 00:22:00,799 young twenty four. Um. But so I could get on the phone with 325 00:22:00,880 --> 00:22:03,440 Donald Trump. I could text one of his who is the guy at the 326 00:22:03,440 --> 00:22:07,480 time, Sam Nunberg, Oh wow, Yeah, yeah he could. I 327 00:22:07,480 --> 00:22:10,839 could text him and ask her comment. He'd say, you know, actually 328 00:22:10,839 --> 00:22:11,880 he's here and he wants to talk to you right now. And I could 329 00:22:11,880 --> 00:22:15,039 get I could talk with Donald Trump on the phone because he would be everywhere, 330 00:22:15,839 --> 00:22:21,519 and just to stantists make Having not studied that, I guess I don't 331 00:22:21,559 --> 00:22:25,839 know or listening too much, maybe it is to these consultants. I mean, 332 00:22:25,880 --> 00:22:27,920 we see that going back to kind of the point with his campaign manager, 333 00:22:27,960 --> 00:22:33,119 who's still around after admitting her by her own admission, she has screwed 334 00:22:33,160 --> 00:22:37,559 this whole thing up, and yet she's still there. So your guess is 335 00:22:37,599 --> 00:22:41,279 as good as mine. But every way you kind of whatever angle you look 336 00:22:41,319 --> 00:22:44,759 at it, it's bad. Well, this is what happened with the media, 337 00:22:44,799 --> 00:22:48,279 and Eddie is being uncharacteristically monster. He wrote a piece for the Federalists 338 00:22:48,319 --> 00:22:51,240 that I think I actually quibbled with before you wrote it in our staff chat, 339 00:22:51,319 --> 00:22:57,680 because with the Santist he had this really I think moral position on cooperation 340 00:22:59,000 --> 00:23:02,240 with corporate press, which is that he didn't do it. And he had 341 00:23:02,319 --> 00:23:07,400 these like Sunshine State summits where he invited basically an honest, fair journalists to 342 00:23:07,480 --> 00:23:10,319 cover him, and that was a lot of conservative media, maybe too much 343 00:23:10,359 --> 00:23:14,240 conservative media, but I loved that concept and it didn't bother me so much 344 00:23:14,279 --> 00:23:18,279 that the corporate press was being shut out of their access because they'd have to 345 00:23:18,319 --> 00:23:21,400 earn it back. And so I've always really liked that, and he got 346 00:23:21,440 --> 00:23:23,519 a lot of praise for doing that in conservative media, and I wonder if 347 00:23:23,559 --> 00:23:30,039 that led his campaign management when they launched a national campaign to say we're going 348 00:23:30,079 --> 00:23:33,960 to keep on with that track instead of as you wrote, the guy has 349 00:23:33,960 --> 00:23:38,319 to do hostile interviews because it's where he thrives. He's absolutely best in conversation 350 00:23:38,519 --> 00:23:42,079 with media hacks. That is his brand, it's his bread and butter. 351 00:23:42,279 --> 00:23:48,839 It's what rocketed him to meteorc success. And it clearly gave him a sense 352 00:23:48,880 --> 00:23:52,759 of he gave him like his mojo. He was. I actually hate that 353 00:23:52,799 --> 00:23:55,839 word. I don't know why I've used it twice, but like it really 354 00:23:55,880 --> 00:24:00,559 gave him fire. And after you wrote the piece, they change course. 355 00:24:00,799 --> 00:24:03,720 Yeah, yeah, pretty quickly. I would love to take credit for that. 356 00:24:04,000 --> 00:24:07,960 Um. Yeah. That The headline was It's time for destantists to do 357 00:24:08,000 --> 00:24:11,240 it live, which is a reference to you know, the Bill O'Reilly Inside 358 00:24:11,400 --> 00:24:14,319 Edition video. Look it up on you Tube if you haven't seen it, 359 00:24:14,400 --> 00:24:18,759 because you Edward Bill o'reiley. I'm add too. I'm gonna start calling William 360 00:24:19,039 --> 00:24:22,599 Um anyway. No, but I respect that position because yeah, you and 361 00:24:22,680 --> 00:24:26,480 you and I, well we as a staff, we're kind of going back 362 00:24:26,480 --> 00:24:27,920 and forth on this before I wrote the piece. The whole point of the 363 00:24:27,920 --> 00:24:33,680 piece being the distantist does have to get out of his his his Fox News 364 00:24:33,680 --> 00:24:37,759 cocoon and make news and the way the surest way to make news, and 365 00:24:37,839 --> 00:24:42,160 nobody knows that better than Donald Trump is through conflicts. That is journalism. 366 00:24:42,160 --> 00:24:45,039 One on one where there's conflict, there is a story. That's where the 367 00:24:45,039 --> 00:24:49,960 attention is. Um. And you know destantist has him been doing that. 368 00:24:51,000 --> 00:24:56,000 He's been going on Fox News with Jesse Waters and eating pizza, playing catch 369 00:24:56,039 --> 00:25:00,240 with Brian Kilmead. These are not interesting things and it doesn't show any kind 370 00:25:00,240 --> 00:25:03,880 of um what people are looking for and have been looking for. But what 371 00:25:03,920 --> 00:25:07,200 they know they have, at least in Donald Trump is a fighter. Yeah. 372 00:25:07,319 --> 00:25:11,640 Um, that's just something that is that that that's a quality you have 373 00:25:11,720 --> 00:25:15,039 to demonstrate that you have and you can demons. You demonstrate that best and 374 00:25:15,039 --> 00:25:19,160 at the biggest scale by doing these national interviews with hostile media. But I 375 00:25:19,200 --> 00:25:22,759 do respect like you, you know, as we were talking before I wrote 376 00:25:22,839 --> 00:25:30,680 that piece among ourselves, I respect the idea that you know, we do 377 00:25:30,759 --> 00:25:36,119 not owe anything to dishonest, corrupt media, which all of them are. 378 00:25:36,440 --> 00:25:38,640 You know, they don't deserve access, they don't deserve a comment from you, 379 00:25:38,839 --> 00:25:44,440 they don't deserve the time. I respect that UM on a you know, 380 00:25:44,519 --> 00:25:49,599 as a standard operating procedure. But the circumstances become very different when you 381 00:25:49,640 --> 00:25:53,799 have Donald Trump, who's shown that yes, he will confront you on your 382 00:25:53,880 --> 00:25:59,359 territory. And when he can do this on your home playing field, Um, 383 00:25:59,400 --> 00:26:00,960 if you're going to go up against that, which is what De Santists 384 00:26:02,000 --> 00:26:03,920 and everyone else in the Republican field is doing it, you have to show 385 00:26:03,960 --> 00:26:10,279 you can do the exact same thing. So while I respect the that Mo, 386 00:26:10,920 --> 00:26:15,119 it's just the circumstances change when you're going to run for the twenties twenty 387 00:26:15,119 --> 00:26:18,720 four nomination. Yeah, when you're running for national office against Donald Trump, 388 00:26:18,799 --> 00:26:21,839 It's just it's a totally different ball game. And I think that's one of 389 00:26:21,839 --> 00:26:26,880 my biggest criticisms are the campaign is that it's really funny you mentioned the baseball 390 00:26:26,920 --> 00:26:30,319 and the pizza, because first of all, yes, Rond De Santis is 391 00:26:30,359 --> 00:26:36,920 a former Yale baseball player, and I'm sure he does genuinely like pizza. 392 00:26:36,960 --> 00:26:41,240 But it reminds me so much of what both Mitt Romney and Jeb Bush. 393 00:26:41,279 --> 00:26:44,400 And also you could probably make the same criticisms of the Cruise and Rubio campaigns 394 00:26:44,400 --> 00:26:49,240 in twenty sixteen. Did you have these like Beltway consultants getting they're scoring that 395 00:26:49,319 --> 00:26:53,559 pizza conversation on Fox News or that catch with Bryan Kilmeade, and they think 396 00:26:53,839 --> 00:26:57,319 this is a big win, and you're running against Donald Trump. And the 397 00:26:57,359 --> 00:27:03,319 thing that Donald Trump did that no other Republican candidate has done before him is 398 00:27:03,480 --> 00:27:06,839 he did not take his suit off when he went to the Iowa State Fair. 399 00:27:06,920 --> 00:27:11,240 He didn't roll up his sleeves to try and bs people because he's not 400 00:27:11,319 --> 00:27:14,319 a politician. He gave helicopter rides. People would always be like, well, 401 00:27:14,359 --> 00:27:17,839 how's this sort of gilded billionaire going to do an Iowa It's like, 402 00:27:17,839 --> 00:27:22,599 well, he handled it way better than every highly paid Washington consultant ever has, 403 00:27:22,000 --> 00:27:25,559 just by being Donald Trump and going there and saying I'm not going to 404 00:27:25,640 --> 00:27:30,160 roll up my sleeves. I remember this this Mitt Romney package, I think 405 00:27:30,160 --> 00:27:33,559 it was on sixty minutes before the twenty twelve election, of him talking about 406 00:27:33,599 --> 00:27:37,400 how he loves Fluffer Nutter sandwiches. He's like in his kitchen on the lake 407 00:27:37,440 --> 00:27:41,559 in New Hampshire making a sandwich. And this is clearly for the consultants that 408 00:27:41,640 --> 00:27:45,880 run the campaign, a huge win they got. They got CBS to watch 409 00:27:47,000 --> 00:27:51,640 Mitt Romney, this private equity baron make a Sandwich. He's just like you, 410 00:27:52,240 --> 00:27:56,240 and they're still stuck in this cycle where they think that works, let 411 00:27:56,240 --> 00:28:00,160 alone against Donald Trump, it is. I mean, maybe it works if 412 00:28:00,200 --> 00:28:03,240 your opponent, as Joe Biden, to just run a safe, traditional campaign 413 00:28:03,279 --> 00:28:04,599 like that, but it does not work if you're running against Donald Trump, 414 00:28:04,599 --> 00:28:08,119 because, if anything, it's going to make you seem less authentic to people 415 00:28:08,440 --> 00:28:14,920 because they're contrasting it with somebody who is nothing but authentically himself in every single 416 00:28:15,000 --> 00:28:19,559 interview. And so to think that that still works is honestly mind boggling to 417 00:28:19,640 --> 00:28:23,799 me. It is, and you know, I don't. I'm not one 418 00:28:23,799 --> 00:28:26,400 of those people like I just read there was a headline. I think it's 419 00:28:26,400 --> 00:28:29,759 still open. I haven't ready yet, but the headline was something like, 420 00:28:30,519 --> 00:28:36,119 um, the desantist hype is now now that the desantist hype is behind him, 421 00:28:36,240 --> 00:28:38,599 or something like that. But I'm not going to I'm not ready to 422 00:28:38,640 --> 00:28:41,480 write, you know, write him off. I think we still have time. 423 00:28:41,519 --> 00:28:44,559 There's still things that he can do. There's still a lot that can 424 00:28:44,599 --> 00:28:48,519 happen that even even if it's not him that does it, it can still 425 00:28:48,599 --> 00:28:51,759 lead to his numbers going up. That can that can very well be true, 426 00:28:52,400 --> 00:28:55,359 but it is possible. I've been keeping in the back of my mind 427 00:28:55,519 --> 00:28:57,960 is that maybe he's really not good at this. Maybe he's not cut out 428 00:28:59,000 --> 00:29:02,480 for for any of this. Um. I mean he's a great governor. 429 00:29:02,519 --> 00:29:04,920 Obviously the record is there, but maybe just when it comes to the whole 430 00:29:04,960 --> 00:29:11,039 like national level and campaigning, there's there. There are certain things that you 431 00:29:11,119 --> 00:29:12,440 have to do. You have to make news, you have to get attention, 432 00:29:12,480 --> 00:29:15,519 people have to know your name. Maybe he just can't do it. 433 00:29:15,880 --> 00:29:19,640 Yeah, I have been thinking that, Um, but no, it's I 434 00:29:19,680 --> 00:29:23,279 will say, like, um to your point about the authenticity when I when 435 00:29:23,279 --> 00:29:27,240 I tune into the live feet of his economic speech, which was earlier this 436 00:29:27,279 --> 00:29:32,960 week, right a two weeks yea, they were playing country music at the 437 00:29:32,960 --> 00:29:36,519 top of it, and I don't know, to santists, maybe he is 438 00:29:36,559 --> 00:29:38,359 a country fan. But it just kind of takes you back to like all 439 00:29:38,400 --> 00:29:45,599 these Republicans that feel Donald Trump plays what has been years for decades known as 440 00:29:45,640 --> 00:29:51,119 a gay anthem at his events because he likes the YMCA. He's a gay 441 00:29:51,279 --> 00:29:53,839 icon. He has a gay icon. He does that because he likes the 442 00:29:53,880 --> 00:29:56,960 song. He doesn't I've never heard a country song play I know he likes 443 00:29:56,960 --> 00:30:00,000 to play a tiny dancer, and like, you know these songs Lee Greenwood. 444 00:30:00,319 --> 00:30:03,960 Okay, so maybe there's one or two, but I was watching, 445 00:30:03,039 --> 00:30:06,799 I don't know, and I know that the santist likes wearing these boots all 446 00:30:06,839 --> 00:30:08,960 the time. And then I see just like I'm often just thinking, okay, 447 00:30:10,000 --> 00:30:12,319 if we have to. And also I heard him say he said something 448 00:30:12,359 --> 00:30:18,759 like I'm I'm born and raised in Florida, which I suppose, I guess 449 00:30:18,880 --> 00:30:21,880 that's true. But the thing is, my impression was actually that he came 450 00:30:21,920 --> 00:30:26,079 from Ohio, because I think that he had said in a previous speech that 451 00:30:26,480 --> 00:30:30,119 his parents are from Ohio, so he's actually someone of the Midwest. And 452 00:30:30,160 --> 00:30:32,599 I was thinking of those two things in my head. I'm just like, 453 00:30:32,640 --> 00:30:34,240 oh God, here we go again. He's he's going to be one of 454 00:30:34,279 --> 00:30:37,640 these Republicans and the things he has to be something to everybody. And it 455 00:30:37,680 --> 00:30:42,079 reminded me, actually sadly, depressingly of Joe Biden, who I swear to 456 00:30:42,119 --> 00:30:45,440 God, no matter who he is in front of, he will tell you 457 00:30:47,240 --> 00:30:51,519 that he shared the same last name, or he grew up around the same 458 00:30:51,519 --> 00:30:52,839 boat. Like if he's in front of Italians, oh, I had all 459 00:30:52,880 --> 00:30:57,279 these Italians in my neighborhood. When he goes to like the Polish's, I 460 00:30:57,359 --> 00:31:00,599 grew up around nothing but Polish people. It's just like, you know, 461 00:31:00,599 --> 00:31:04,039 there's seven eleven or so, right, which you can't even go into a 462 00:31:04,039 --> 00:31:07,319 seven eleven. He was talking to and this is like two thousand and seven 463 00:31:07,319 --> 00:31:11,680 when he was campaigning in that primary, if I remember correctly, and an 464 00:31:11,720 --> 00:31:14,880 Indian voter came up to him and he said, in my state, you 465 00:31:14,920 --> 00:31:18,119 can't even go into a seven eleven without hearing somebody without speaking with a slight 466 00:31:18,200 --> 00:31:22,440 Indian accent. It's exactly what you're saying. That was good, But yeah, 467 00:31:22,559 --> 00:31:25,920 no, that's the thing is, like I swear it, there's nobody 468 00:31:25,960 --> 00:31:27,680 he can't get in front of that night. I think someone should something. 469 00:31:27,720 --> 00:31:32,079 Maybe they have like cross reference. He's like, where did you grow up? 470 00:31:32,839 --> 00:31:36,319 It was supposed to be what scrant Pennsylvania or something or what even says. 471 00:31:36,359 --> 00:31:38,799 But it's always like he somehow was around all the whoever it is he's 472 00:31:38,839 --> 00:31:41,680 around, He's known those those types of people wherever he grew up at anyway, 473 00:31:41,680 --> 00:31:45,079 I'm seeing a little bit of that in the Santis and it's it's really 474 00:31:45,119 --> 00:31:48,559 depressing me. This is the thing. So I was actually gonna say, 475 00:31:48,640 --> 00:31:52,480 you know, there's somebody who if the Veca Ramaswamy had a show on Fox, 476 00:31:52,920 --> 00:31:56,680 I would probably watch it a lot. I think he's interesting and dynamic 477 00:31:56,759 --> 00:32:01,160 and he does have charisma. Uh Um. I don't know that I would 478 00:32:01,279 --> 00:32:07,319 entrust him with the responsibilities of the Oval office. But that is to say, 479 00:32:07,440 --> 00:32:10,079 he's made a couple of just really interesting new media campaign moves in the 480 00:32:10,160 --> 00:32:15,200 last week. One he filed foyas about the Trump indictments, and that used 481 00:32:15,200 --> 00:32:17,039 it as a public relation to push you know, so he immediately has his 482 00:32:17,039 --> 00:32:21,400 campaign file for it fy US or he personally filed for US about the indictments 483 00:32:21,440 --> 00:32:24,759 of Donald Trump the Special Council investigations, and goes on TV and his campaign 484 00:32:25,359 --> 00:32:29,839 clips his Fox hit and pushes it out there. And then he did another 485 00:32:29,880 --> 00:32:34,799 thing which was really interesting. Um. And again it's just like this, 486 00:32:35,240 --> 00:32:37,519 it's all there for the taking, like you can do this. Um he 487 00:32:38,319 --> 00:32:42,119 what was I thinking of? I feel like Rick Perry right now? Did 488 00:32:42,119 --> 00:32:44,319 you see the other thing that he did this week? No, I don't 489 00:32:44,319 --> 00:32:46,000 pay that much attention to his campaign though I agree. I think that he's 490 00:32:46,000 --> 00:32:50,599 really thoughtful. Um, which is because I saw that he had put out 491 00:32:50,640 --> 00:32:54,920 that Um. Sorry, I'm not trying to like wind no please do and 492 00:32:54,960 --> 00:32:58,559 I'm looking up now. Yeah, so I saw that he put out a 493 00:32:58,599 --> 00:33:00,480 thing that was you know with FPI. Yeah, that's what I was thinking, 494 00:33:01,160 --> 00:33:05,880 which was like around a certain several thousand or something agents that he could 495 00:33:05,920 --> 00:33:09,559 repurpose two different things just to shrink the agency. And it's super specific. 496 00:33:09,640 --> 00:33:13,480 Yeah yeah, yeah, then he get like the exact numbers that he had. 497 00:33:14,000 --> 00:33:16,200 He's outside of the courthouse in DC. Sorry to interrupt you, but 498 00:33:16,240 --> 00:33:21,240 like there's there's a crowd outside the courthouse in DC right now today as we're 499 00:33:21,279 --> 00:33:24,119 taping this and he's talking about the foyas he like taped a video about filing 500 00:33:24,119 --> 00:33:28,880 these foys outside the courthouse here in DC. And that's what like Ron de 501 00:33:28,960 --> 00:33:31,559 Seintes could have done. He could have been running as like the Trump defender 502 00:33:31,640 --> 00:33:35,480 who thinks he's just you know, different for this moment. Yeah, you 503 00:33:35,519 --> 00:33:37,240 know, Trump is great, Like this is again, I think he could 504 00:33:37,279 --> 00:33:40,440 be if he was running against another candidate, any other candidate other than Trump, 505 00:33:40,480 --> 00:33:44,160 if Donald Trump wasn't running for president right now, I think we would 506 00:33:44,160 --> 00:33:47,079 still all have some complaints about his campaign, but the fact of the matter 507 00:33:47,160 --> 00:33:51,920 is he is running against Donald Trump and he's just blowing it. Yeah, 508 00:33:51,920 --> 00:33:52,839 so now that you bring that up, I do want to get this out 509 00:33:52,839 --> 00:33:57,039 there because this is something I really want the Decantis people, who if any 510 00:33:57,079 --> 00:34:00,480 one of you was listening, this is a free idea I put on Twitter, 511 00:34:00,519 --> 00:34:02,160 I put it in an article. I'm saying it now in the federal 512 00:34:02,160 --> 00:34:06,119 He's taken his advice before. Yeah, you have to do this, Like 513 00:34:06,160 --> 00:34:07,920 if you don't want to talk, which I don't. This this for sure. 514 00:34:07,920 --> 00:34:10,920 When I say do media that's you know, outside of your comfort zone 515 00:34:13,159 --> 00:34:15,519 that I do mean live and on TV, Like that's the only way to 516 00:34:15,559 --> 00:34:20,159 do it because otherwise they throw up these fact check graphics, they interrupt with 517 00:34:20,199 --> 00:34:22,559 their own little stupid fact checks, and you know, they get to have 518 00:34:22,599 --> 00:34:25,599 the last word, and that's not the way it should be. But so, 519 00:34:25,639 --> 00:34:28,840 if you don't want to deal with print media like the New York Times 520 00:34:28,880 --> 00:34:31,360 the Washington Post, when they write articles about you and they ask you for 521 00:34:31,440 --> 00:34:35,599 comment, you don't have to answer. But put a camera in front of 522 00:34:35,599 --> 00:34:40,320 the Santis in his office, have him with the newspaper article, reading through 523 00:34:40,360 --> 00:34:44,559 it and debunking each one line by line and saying what's wrong with it. 524 00:34:44,639 --> 00:34:46,559 This is what they got wrong, this is false. That would be an 525 00:34:46,559 --> 00:34:50,440 instant hit on Twitter, like you were saying that, a vivid Gramaswami he 526 00:34:50,480 --> 00:34:52,440 went out to that, you know, you can do things. It doesn't 527 00:34:52,440 --> 00:34:54,840 have to be huge. You can do things like that that people will love. 528 00:34:54,920 --> 00:34:58,440 I would watch every single one of those. I would find that really 529 00:34:58,440 --> 00:35:01,320 compelling to watch. And again it would just be another way of showing that 530 00:35:01,400 --> 00:35:06,280 you have them, which I think that is his strongest as far as being 531 00:35:06,280 --> 00:35:10,159 an elected official, just a real mastery of the material, familiarity with material. 532 00:35:12,000 --> 00:35:15,880 Matt Gates does his own podcast now, which I also think is interesting, 533 00:35:15,639 --> 00:35:20,079 and it's one of those things that again like in the Trump era, 534 00:35:21,360 --> 00:35:23,199 you know, not typically like a huge fan of Matt Gates, as his 535 00:35:23,320 --> 00:35:27,880 foreign policies occasionally very interesting to me, but in the Trump era, especially 536 00:35:27,880 --> 00:35:32,760 if you're running against Donald Trump, to have these like Beltway consultants who let's 537 00:35:32,800 --> 00:35:37,039 get back to the boots question, because we all know the type in DC, 538 00:35:37,360 --> 00:35:45,400 the freaking consultant who has lived in McClane and Fairfax for thirty years and 539 00:35:45,840 --> 00:35:52,079 maybe is from Texas or Tennessee, Louisiana originally but doesn't ever go back there. 540 00:35:52,519 --> 00:35:55,599 Or maybe he's actually just from New York. Well, maybe they're from 541 00:35:55,679 --> 00:36:00,679 California and they walk around in cowboy boots. It is the most painful thing. 542 00:36:01,440 --> 00:36:07,239 I actually think that it's it's become in the last ten years, like 543 00:36:07,280 --> 00:36:09,760 sort of a conservative virtue signal. Yeah. Yeah, the people who grew 544 00:36:09,800 --> 00:36:13,400 up in the suburbs of Dallas, like never on a ranch, Like you 545 00:36:13,440 --> 00:36:16,360 don't need cowboy you've never needed cowboy boots in your right, just stopped wearing 546 00:36:16,360 --> 00:36:20,199 them with your suit. Yeah. Now, that's exactly how I feel. 547 00:36:20,199 --> 00:36:22,440 And I some people, I mean, and I will say, there there 548 00:36:22,480 --> 00:36:25,760 are I'm sure some people who just they just I've met people it's like, 549 00:36:25,760 --> 00:36:29,079 oh, I just like cowboy boots, that's why I wear them. I 550 00:36:29,119 --> 00:36:30,880 have, I've met those people. I think I had a roommate who was 551 00:36:30,920 --> 00:36:34,679 one of those people. I always thought it was weird, um, but 552 00:36:34,800 --> 00:36:38,280 he genuinely, genuinely just liked wearing you know, a certain you know type 553 00:36:38,280 --> 00:36:42,519 of clothes. Or some people. There are some people who really like country 554 00:36:42,559 --> 00:36:45,320 music. Maybe Ronda Santa's is that person. It just seems doesn't feel right. 555 00:36:45,400 --> 00:36:49,239 And then especially because he's like, you know, from Florida, and 556 00:36:49,280 --> 00:36:52,079 it's just like you, I don't know, there's nothing about him that screams 557 00:36:52,119 --> 00:36:54,519 you know, Garth Brooks to me or Shania Twain. It's just like kind 558 00:36:54,519 --> 00:36:58,599 of weird. Well, so if you were to your point, like again, 559 00:36:59,039 --> 00:37:01,559 if Ronda Santa is really good in podcasts, really good at attacking the 560 00:37:01,559 --> 00:37:05,760 media, really good at defending his record in Florida, there are ways to 561 00:37:05,800 --> 00:37:08,880 do that that don't even involve the corporate press. Like you can do all 562 00:37:08,920 --> 00:37:10,920 of this stuff on your own. You can do it in a way that 563 00:37:10,960 --> 00:37:15,039 feels really authentic and natural. And this is a kind of broader, thirty 564 00:37:15,039 --> 00:37:17,199 thousand foot question that I was gonna toss your way, Eddie, is that 565 00:37:17,280 --> 00:37:22,400 one of the silver linings of twenty fifteen and twenty sixteen seemed to me that 566 00:37:22,599 --> 00:37:29,679 it shook Washington to its core in a lot of ways, but particularly when 567 00:37:29,679 --> 00:37:32,480 it came to how to run a campaign. And I get that nobody else 568 00:37:32,599 --> 00:37:37,159 is Donald Trump, but I understand that. But at the same time, 569 00:37:37,320 --> 00:37:42,159 one of the big lessons of twenty sixteen is that you don't have to run 570 00:37:42,400 --> 00:37:46,480 campaigns with the same playbook that goes back to nineteen ninety. You really don't 571 00:37:46,519 --> 00:37:50,320 have to do that anymore. You don't have to have George H. W. 572 00:37:50,559 --> 00:37:52,800 Bush checking himself out at a grocery store in the line like you don't, 573 00:37:52,960 --> 00:37:57,079 or being checked out by the cashier at a grocery. So you just 574 00:37:57,119 --> 00:38:00,639 don't have to do that stuff anymore. You can do it. It's not 575 00:38:00,679 --> 00:38:04,800 just about doing you know, conservative podcasts or whatever. It's not really just 576 00:38:04,880 --> 00:38:08,400 about doing that. It's about having a candidate who turns their iPhone on and 577 00:38:08,519 --> 00:38:13,800 starts recording a video, even if the campaign manager approves it ahead of time. 578 00:38:14,199 --> 00:38:17,400 Just even on the most basically like look like you're trying to run a 579 00:38:17,440 --> 00:38:21,719 new playbook, please like. And I think you see some of that in 580 00:38:21,719 --> 00:38:24,119 the economic agenda he rolled out again. I said earlier, I thought it 581 00:38:24,159 --> 00:38:28,440 was sort of a cool bridge between old right and new right, and that 582 00:38:28,519 --> 00:38:35,800 it didn't essue the importance of having a limited government rolling back regulations, just 583 00:38:36,039 --> 00:38:39,880 slicing and dicing the bureaucracy here in DC, both for like fiscal reasons and 584 00:38:39,960 --> 00:38:45,599 for cultural moral reasons because of what it's done to the country. It has 585 00:38:45,639 --> 00:38:47,880 all of that in there, and then it has some really cool stuff too, 586 00:38:47,880 --> 00:38:52,719 about being able to support a family on one income, being able to 587 00:38:54,159 --> 00:39:00,840 decouple from China, and he talks about the ruling class in ways that would 588 00:39:00,840 --> 00:39:04,440 have been terrifying. So I'm glad his campaign at least let him do that, 589 00:39:04,440 --> 00:39:07,000 because they sure as hell wouldn't have been twenty twelve or two thousand and 590 00:39:07,079 --> 00:39:14,519 eight or anything before twenty sixteen. But it's just not fully he's like the 591 00:39:14,559 --> 00:39:17,920 transition candidate, you know, and it's like the story of his campaign the 592 00:39:19,000 --> 00:39:21,800 lesson that the Republican Party takes from it, whether it's successful or not. 593 00:39:21,880 --> 00:39:23,079 I agree, we're three weeks out from the first debate, so some of 594 00:39:23,079 --> 00:39:28,079 this conversation, you know, we both acknowledge your things can change. Not 595 00:39:28,239 --> 00:39:30,440 ruling him out, but whatever happens is to his campaign, I think really 596 00:39:30,440 --> 00:39:35,239 should be a lesson for the Republican Party. It's just a matter of how 597 00:39:35,239 --> 00:39:39,440 they take the lesson. Right, do they ever learn a Republican ever learned 598 00:39:39,440 --> 00:39:42,960 their lesson? Like? Have they ever? That's the thing? I mean, 599 00:39:43,039 --> 00:39:45,480 Like he's as we've just been sitting here talking about Donald Trump. He 600 00:39:45,559 --> 00:39:52,159 didn't he didn't write his own playbook or rewrite the playbook. But he definitely 601 00:39:52,280 --> 00:39:54,400 said, I'm not following that old thing that you guys did. I'm going 602 00:39:54,440 --> 00:39:57,880 to have fun doing this. And I think that's how you can always tell 603 00:39:57,920 --> 00:40:02,639 when someone's when someone is having fun, they're generally doing well, and it's 604 00:40:02,679 --> 00:40:05,719 I don't think it's really the other way. It's like, oh, I'm 605 00:40:05,719 --> 00:40:07,960 doing well, so now I'm going to have fun. Obama and Hillary Yeah, 606 00:40:08,000 --> 00:40:12,760 yeah, sure for sure. And you remember, like um that it 607 00:40:12,800 --> 00:40:15,079 was a fun time, just a little bit hectic. Was two? Was 608 00:40:15,119 --> 00:40:19,000 that two thousand? Was two thousand and twelve? Herman Kane? Yeah, 609 00:40:19,079 --> 00:40:21,480 yeah, yeah, Like he was up briefly at the top of the poles 610 00:40:21,480 --> 00:40:23,599 for a while. You could tell he was having fun. Though when nuke 611 00:40:23,679 --> 00:40:25,760 Ingrid was at the top of poles, he looked like he was having a 612 00:40:25,800 --> 00:40:30,079 bust. Yeah. Yeah, But I think it's they're at the top because 613 00:40:30,119 --> 00:40:31,960 they're having fun, yeah, and not the other way around. And I 614 00:40:32,000 --> 00:40:35,519 think that has always been true for Donald Trump. I will say during the 615 00:40:35,800 --> 00:40:37,679 twenty twenty election, I didn't feel like he was having fun. Admittedly, 616 00:40:37,719 --> 00:40:45,199 it was a very depressing year between the mostly peaceful rioting UM and the lockdowns 617 00:40:45,239 --> 00:40:49,760 that kept everyone at home and away from their loved ones. But you know, 618 00:40:49,800 --> 00:40:52,559 you could tell that he was just not having fun. It wasn't the 619 00:40:52,599 --> 00:40:55,639 same spirit the twenty sixteen had um And that was for me a sign that 620 00:40:55,639 --> 00:40:59,320 this was, you know, in big trouble. They're obviously many many, 621 00:40:59,320 --> 00:41:02,079 many other facts that led to the twenty twenty outcome, but that was just 622 00:41:02,119 --> 00:41:07,840 something that has all that I've always thought about. And I think that Ron 623 00:41:07,920 --> 00:41:14,320 de Santis there is this this problem with his campaign that I can see and 624 00:41:14,440 --> 00:41:17,679 that we've been talking about here, is that he's trying to do things that 625 00:41:17,719 --> 00:41:22,960 he does not enjoy, you know, every And I don't want to like 626 00:41:23,199 --> 00:41:28,440 knock him for this because I'm sure if you put if you put me in 627 00:41:28,440 --> 00:41:31,039 a crowd of people and a camera on me, it may not be there 628 00:41:31,159 --> 00:41:36,000 might be some awkward moments there. But he goes in and he's supposed to 629 00:41:36,000 --> 00:41:37,440 be the focal point of you know, going into a diner, going into 630 00:41:37,480 --> 00:41:42,920 a restaurant, and these these conversations, these conversations he has people are so 631 00:41:43,000 --> 00:41:45,239 stiff. If you can't have If he doesn't enjoy doing those things, he 632 00:41:45,280 --> 00:41:47,960 should not be doing them. You can tell that Donald Trump will he went 633 00:41:49,000 --> 00:41:51,599 to dairy queen or something. He didn't know what a blizzard was. He 634 00:41:51,639 --> 00:41:52,440 was like, what the hell is a blizzard? Oh yeah, yeah, 635 00:41:52,480 --> 00:41:57,119 but he's like making fun of himself and yeah, how he's having a good 636 00:41:57,159 --> 00:42:00,199 time. Ron de Santis goes in and there was the really good one the 637 00:42:00,199 --> 00:42:04,440 other day that um, I forget what the event would but there was people. 638 00:42:04,440 --> 00:42:06,760 He was saying high too, and there was a little girl where she 639 00:42:06,840 --> 00:42:09,559 had like a slushy drink. Then he said, oh, what she got 640 00:42:09,559 --> 00:42:12,760 there? And she said a slushy. He goes, it's got a lot 641 00:42:12,760 --> 00:42:16,880 of sugar. I bet no, this is DeSantis. It's got a lot 642 00:42:16,920 --> 00:42:21,000 of sugar. I bet it doesn't sound like Trump. It was just like 643 00:42:21,079 --> 00:42:23,880 yeah, very awkward, stilted, and those are always his I think his 644 00:42:24,079 --> 00:42:27,679 interactions. Again, I don't want to knock him for that because it's you 645 00:42:27,679 --> 00:42:31,480 don't have to be like this. This this performer. Not everyone's a performer, 646 00:42:31,519 --> 00:42:35,880 obviously, like Donald Trump is a natural performer. He's not. But 647 00:42:36,079 --> 00:42:38,119 if you don't enjoy these things, you don't have to do them. Don't 648 00:42:38,119 --> 00:42:44,360 force yourself, don't be uncomfortable because it reads it reads very very easily well 649 00:42:44,360 --> 00:42:47,760 and Desantus. Actually, when he beat Andrew Gillam was up against the Canada, 650 00:42:46,920 --> 00:42:52,119 the media was saying, what is the future of the Democratic Party was 651 00:42:52,159 --> 00:42:55,400 extremely charismatic. And so it's not as though, at least from what we've 652 00:42:55,440 --> 00:43:00,039 seen in Florida, De Santis is ain't capable of the sort of retail politics. 653 00:43:00,039 --> 00:43:05,000 Obviously he knows how to do it. Yeah, you know, he's 654 00:43:05,039 --> 00:43:08,199 not that off putting. You know, he can do it. But I 655 00:43:08,199 --> 00:43:12,360 think to your point, it just his rhythms off. And part of me 656 00:43:12,400 --> 00:43:16,239 does wonder if that's because it would be extremely difficult and he's a very smart 657 00:43:16,280 --> 00:43:20,400 man to be pulled. And I think, by the way, not only 658 00:43:20,519 --> 00:43:24,079 is he very smart, he has good instincts about what Republican voters want, 659 00:43:24,440 --> 00:43:29,760 and I just think he has too many elite sort of political consultants chirping in 660 00:43:29,800 --> 00:43:34,239 his ear and it's tearing him away from sort of what his real instinct is 661 00:43:34,280 --> 00:43:37,960 telling him to do in a bad way. And to bring it full circle, 662 00:43:37,079 --> 00:43:40,000 because we didn't plan less to be a what's wrong with a run to 663 00:43:40,039 --> 00:43:45,719 Santa's campaign podcast, but to bring it full circle, I think that really 664 00:43:45,440 --> 00:43:51,119 the fact that no top people of the campaign have left. Is not a 665 00:43:51,159 --> 00:43:53,440 good sign for sure. And also, just like you said, yeah, 666 00:43:53,480 --> 00:43:57,719 he's not off putting personally. I don't know him personally. He just but 667 00:43:58,719 --> 00:44:01,199 like there was a big moment, and this was this big controversy back during 668 00:44:01,400 --> 00:44:09,039 the lockdown era when obviously which Florida had resisted, and the media had run 669 00:44:09,800 --> 00:44:15,000 articles about how he had beer with he had stopped for beers with some of 670 00:44:15,000 --> 00:44:16,880 his supporters and then you know there's a note you weren't supposed to be gathering 671 00:44:16,880 --> 00:44:20,440 with people, but he was like, oh yeah, hell yeah, I 672 00:44:20,480 --> 00:44:22,079 had a beer with people, and like that was like amazing. Everyone loved 673 00:44:22,079 --> 00:44:25,079 that, and I'm sure there's people who enjoyed being around him having a beer. 674 00:44:25,400 --> 00:44:30,119 I guess it's just a matter of finding like the right the right venue 675 00:44:30,119 --> 00:44:32,400 for him, the right opportunities, and he's just yeah, And I think 676 00:44:32,400 --> 00:44:37,159 it has so much to do with not getting not clearing house. And that's 677 00:44:37,159 --> 00:44:38,880 what I don't understand that so many of these articles that have come out about 678 00:44:38,920 --> 00:44:43,719 his campaign, the problems with it, have been about the campaign signaling oh, 679 00:44:43,719 --> 00:44:45,280 well, we're reorganizing, we're laying off the third of our staff, 680 00:44:45,280 --> 00:44:50,440 we're restructuring. Okay, can you does any does any of that touch the 681 00:44:50,480 --> 00:44:53,840 top people? Does any of it to touch the top most person? I 682 00:44:53,880 --> 00:44:58,039 know his campaign manager. I'm sorry, I don't know her name. It's 683 00:44:58,079 --> 00:45:01,039 like something difficult Genera Pack to Nara Pack. She was she was on this 684 00:45:01,039 --> 00:45:07,320 podcast. I think back in twenty twenty. What was she before? I 685 00:45:07,360 --> 00:45:10,679 think she's a consultant. I was reading about something she did. I just 686 00:45:10,679 --> 00:45:14,599 can't believe it. I can't believe that she's still there. I'm sure she's 687 00:45:14,599 --> 00:45:19,480 a fine person. Yeah, I think she was on the podcast right before 688 00:45:19,480 --> 00:45:24,679 the twenty twenty election talking about suburban the suburban women vote being motivated by like 689 00:45:24,800 --> 00:45:30,360 education issues and I think crime even too, and that turned out to depression, 690 00:45:30,519 --> 00:45:35,000 some races um And I guess that told me at least, you know, 691 00:45:35,039 --> 00:45:38,079 this is a consultant who's at least kind of following the trends or trying 692 00:45:38,119 --> 00:45:40,440 to. But at the end of the day, if you if you don't 693 00:45:40,599 --> 00:45:45,519 fundamentally and I'm not saying this about her personally because they don't know, but 694 00:45:45,719 --> 00:45:50,559 I think it's true if the broader kind of consulting class you don't fundamentally respect 695 00:45:50,599 --> 00:45:58,039 the dignity of you know, the the Iowa Trump voter who finds his off 696 00:45:58,039 --> 00:46:02,239 color humor, who would laugh fat grabber by the like. If you don't 697 00:46:02,280 --> 00:46:07,199 fundamentally respect that person, you're not going to be able to run a successful 698 00:46:07,199 --> 00:46:10,960 campaign against Donald Trump. Yeah. Yeah, that's that's Um, that's insightful. 699 00:46:12,000 --> 00:46:14,880 I'd say, though, I want to talk about the debate because you 700 00:46:14,880 --> 00:46:17,599 were I think you were talking about this as Chris earlier. Um, I 701 00:46:17,639 --> 00:46:23,039 was reading how Trump was talking with Fox executives who are still trying to get 702 00:46:23,159 --> 00:46:25,920 him to come to the debate. He was talking with them right after he 703 00:46:25,960 --> 00:46:30,119 got right after the news broke of this this indictment. He met with Fox 704 00:46:30,159 --> 00:46:34,400 executives who are trying to get him still, because I think right now he's 705 00:46:34,440 --> 00:46:37,800 still very much like I'm probably not doing it whatever. I actually I don't 706 00:46:37,840 --> 00:46:39,840 really see I would like for him to do it, but I don't see 707 00:46:39,840 --> 00:46:43,679 an upside doing it. Yeah, I mean, I think it's better for 708 00:46:43,719 --> 00:46:46,320 the country if people debate, Like someone was joking earlier about, I think 709 00:46:46,320 --> 00:46:50,199 to Santas and Gavin Newsommer set to debate and they're like, are you ready 710 00:46:50,199 --> 00:46:52,119 for that? And I made a joke about like, haha, just what 711 00:46:52,159 --> 00:46:54,159 the country needs right now. But then I sort of took a second thought 712 00:46:54,159 --> 00:46:58,079 about and I was like, listen, when people are debating in public, 713 00:46:58,199 --> 00:47:01,280 this is an old ben dominant take about Crossfire. Then I'm reheating here. 714 00:47:02,400 --> 00:47:09,000 When John Stewart had that famous argument with Tucker Carlson on Crossfire or gave that 715 00:47:09,039 --> 00:47:15,280 famous lecture, I should say that Tucker Carlson bagala on CNN that basically got 716 00:47:15,360 --> 00:47:19,960 cross fire cancer as a canceled as the legend goes, and said, you 717 00:47:19,960 --> 00:47:22,519 know, you're killing the country blah blah blah. That was wrong. The 718 00:47:22,559 --> 00:47:27,960 idea that we can have, even if they're dramatic and theatrical, open public 719 00:47:28,039 --> 00:47:32,519 debates between polarizing people, people that are on the left, people that are 720 00:47:32,559 --> 00:47:36,039 on the right, and if they can hash it out in public, that's 721 00:47:36,039 --> 00:47:38,639 a healthy sign, right, And so I think it is overall better for 722 00:47:38,679 --> 00:47:42,840 the country if we can see the contrast between Donald Trump, If the Republican 723 00:47:42,920 --> 00:47:45,079 voters can see the contrast between Donald Trump and all the other candidates, what 724 00:47:45,159 --> 00:47:49,639 they're like in conversation, what they're like when challenged by by each other. 725 00:47:50,000 --> 00:47:54,000 I think that's a good thing From a pure political campaign standpoint, I wouldn't 726 00:47:54,039 --> 00:47:58,320 do it. There's no upside for whom Yeah, I mean because I think 727 00:47:58,320 --> 00:48:02,199 people have tried to find a downside and maybe they're just trying to provoke him 728 00:48:02,239 --> 00:48:06,519 into showing up. Um. But I you know, I heard some different 729 00:48:06,519 --> 00:48:08,599 ones like, oh, he needs to prove that he can. You know 730 00:48:09,679 --> 00:48:13,840 that he's not entitled to the nomination. He needs to prove that he can 731 00:48:13,880 --> 00:48:16,840 take on his closest rival being run to Santists. He needs to prove. 732 00:48:16,960 --> 00:48:21,719 But I'm thinking he doesn't. Really, he's been president, he's running for 733 00:48:21,760 --> 00:48:25,159 a non consecutive term. Um, he's all the polls indicate that he's on 734 00:48:25,199 --> 00:48:32,159 his way to the would it's almost like still being president and agreeing to debate 735 00:48:32,199 --> 00:48:36,000 these people who want your job. I just feel like, yeah, I 736 00:48:36,039 --> 00:48:38,000 don't. I don't think there's any upside. I hope he will do it, 737 00:48:39,480 --> 00:48:44,199 and I will say I do hope that the Santist does it, because 738 00:48:44,199 --> 00:48:45,840 I think there's a word that maybe he won't do it. If if Donald 739 00:48:45,840 --> 00:48:51,000 Trump doesn't, well that's really interesting. Yeah, I've heard that maybe those 740 00:48:51,039 --> 00:48:52,519 were just reports based on rumors. I don't know. I have heard that 741 00:48:52,519 --> 00:48:57,199 that he's that it's possible he won't show up if Donald Trump doesn't um. 742 00:48:58,039 --> 00:49:00,920 But if Donald I hope it's the more than are I hope they all show 743 00:49:00,960 --> 00:49:04,000 up. If Donald Trump doesn't, I hope everyone will still show up. 744 00:49:04,519 --> 00:49:07,440 But yeah, I was I was just thinking to myself, I've really concluded. 745 00:49:07,480 --> 00:49:09,679 I guess it wasn't It didn't take much thought, But really I concluded 746 00:49:09,760 --> 00:49:14,119 that there isn't much ineffor Donald Trump to debate. No, especially not in 747 00:49:14,119 --> 00:49:15,960 the first one. I could see a scenario, and I think we both 748 00:49:16,000 --> 00:49:22,440 agree that, you know, there's so much that can happen that we sitting 749 00:49:22,480 --> 00:49:24,800 here aren't able to predict right now, and just part of the battle is 750 00:49:24,840 --> 00:49:30,400 knowing that I could foresee if scenario where I don't know, maybe just Santis 751 00:49:30,559 --> 00:49:35,320 or Christie or somebody goes viral for mocking Trump for not being at a debate, 752 00:49:35,400 --> 00:49:38,360 you know, just calling him whatever and making like emasculating him for not 753 00:49:38,440 --> 00:49:42,400 showing up at the debate. I guess I could see something like that that 754 00:49:42,480 --> 00:49:46,320 starts eating away at his numbers with The New York Times did a good breakdown 755 00:49:46,440 --> 00:49:52,719 of different three different groups of Republican voters in this primary thirty seven percent or 756 00:49:52,760 --> 00:49:55,920 what they call MAGA voters. So you die hard Trump people thirty seven persuadable 757 00:49:57,000 --> 00:50:00,960 voters and what was this one? Like twenty four percent? I don't know 758 00:50:00,079 --> 00:50:04,760 that are just not open to Trump period, And so I guess I could 759 00:50:04,760 --> 00:50:10,960 see some of those persuadable voters getting finding that persuasive yeah at some point, 760 00:50:12,000 --> 00:50:14,880 and then but what happens? Then Donald Trump just shows up at the next 761 00:50:14,880 --> 00:50:17,920 debate and crushes everyone. It's impossible for him to lose a Republican debate, 762 00:50:19,159 --> 00:50:21,440 right, Yeah, No, it's funny. You're definitely ahead of me on 763 00:50:21,440 --> 00:50:23,679 this because I wasn't even thinking about, well, let's like get the scenarios 764 00:50:23,679 --> 00:50:27,440 of him not showing up and then what happens going forward. I think that 765 00:50:28,119 --> 00:50:35,280 probably the for someone who does come to the debate and let's say Donald Trump 766 00:50:35,280 --> 00:50:39,360 doesn't show up, the best option for them would be basically to just relentlessly 767 00:50:39,400 --> 00:50:44,840 attack Donald Trump's record while he was in office. And I do think that 768 00:50:44,920 --> 00:50:47,079 Donald Trump would not be able to resist that. He would definitely show it 769 00:50:47,360 --> 00:50:52,039 well, first of all, he'll go on his true social or whatever in 770 00:50:52,079 --> 00:50:57,320 any other interview and just completely like just just cut into whoever it was they 771 00:50:57,360 --> 00:51:00,760 was attacking him, which I'm sure they all will on the at the first 772 00:51:00,760 --> 00:51:02,800 debate, But then I think he would definitely feel like he needs to show 773 00:51:02,880 --> 00:51:07,599 up and defend himself to their face. And then I think you're right, 774 00:51:07,639 --> 00:51:13,920 it's like it's difficult. Everybody had difficult difficulty debating Donald Trump. I don't 775 00:51:13,920 --> 00:51:20,599 think anyone found it easy. And I think mostly because he's very quick, 776 00:51:20,719 --> 00:51:24,719 and I think that's really under like an underappreciated aspect him. He's someone who's 777 00:51:24,760 --> 00:51:30,480 so quick on his feet. If you remember, it was what was the 778 00:51:30,559 --> 00:51:35,880 line that Hillary when they were debating, and she said, we better hope 779 00:51:35,920 --> 00:51:38,280 that Donald Trump is never in charge of or a law enforcement He said, 780 00:51:38,320 --> 00:51:43,519 yeah, because you'd be in jail. The iconic. Yeah, that was 781 00:51:43,599 --> 00:51:45,519 so great. And he didn't care about interrupting her. I think this is 782 00:51:45,559 --> 00:51:49,239 why he always wins. A. He just has a chrismal but B he 783 00:51:49,360 --> 00:51:52,320 just like fundamentally does not care about the rules. Yeah. So if you're 784 00:51:52,400 --> 00:51:57,840 somebody who's running as an opponent to Donald Trump, you're trying to pitch to 785 00:51:57,880 --> 00:52:00,360 the public like I do care about the rule rules, And that's why you 786 00:52:00,360 --> 00:52:05,280 know, I'm Mike Pence. I Pench just put out too Honest merch because 787 00:52:05,280 --> 00:52:09,639 that's included in that Trump told Pence he was too honest, which I found 788 00:52:09,639 --> 00:52:14,679 amusing. But if that's your if that's your pitch, um, you're you're 789 00:52:14,679 --> 00:52:17,239 sort of going to mimic that tonally in your participation in the debate, meaning 790 00:52:17,239 --> 00:52:22,360 you're gonna follow the rules and Donald Trump is not. So you can never 791 00:52:22,400 --> 00:52:23,679 beat a guy who doesn't follow the rules. He's not playing by the same 792 00:52:23,800 --> 00:52:27,360 rules he's gonna win it him. Yeah, yeah, which also I think 793 00:52:27,960 --> 00:52:32,239 Donald Trump knows that there is no when you're Donald Trump and what he has 794 00:52:32,239 --> 00:52:36,760 come to represent, there is no winning anyway if you do follow the rules, 795 00:52:36,760 --> 00:52:40,159 because you know that the almost always the moderator, whoever is going to 796 00:52:40,679 --> 00:52:44,719 it's almost two against one. Every time you look back at Chris Wallace, 797 00:52:44,960 --> 00:52:46,800 UM, the Chris Wallace debates with Joe Biden and Trump, and you just 798 00:52:47,079 --> 00:52:51,480 you just knew that that that's not someone who's that's someone who's there to run 799 00:52:51,519 --> 00:52:54,159 defense for the Democrats or the or the whoever is not Donald Trump. Um. 800 00:52:54,400 --> 00:52:59,639 So his his intuition that there's no there's no nothing for him to gain 801 00:52:59,679 --> 00:53:02,280 and following the rules. It's true, however, when he knows that everyone 802 00:53:02,320 --> 00:53:07,199 else is completely at his mercy. This is another frustrating thing about what I've 803 00:53:07,199 --> 00:53:09,360 seen from the Descantist campaign. And I think still, I think we're picking 804 00:53:09,360 --> 00:53:13,039 on the Descantist campaign here a lot. Although a lot of the criticism is 805 00:53:13,079 --> 00:53:16,559 just of the kind of elite Republicans who have bad motivations for supporting for supporting 806 00:53:16,599 --> 00:53:21,360 Desantists, but it also applies to other campaigns they're running. It's like we 807 00:53:21,519 --> 00:53:23,880 had Donald Trump. Like, if you can take a silver lining away from 808 00:53:23,920 --> 00:53:29,239 Donald Trump from your perspective, it should be the recognition that you don't have 809 00:53:29,360 --> 00:53:32,000 to do what you do with the traditional media anymore. You don't have to 810 00:53:32,119 --> 00:53:37,960 run the old campaign still campaign playbook anymore. Like these are all good things, 811 00:53:37,000 --> 00:53:40,880 and they were very obvious lessons. And if you still haven't learned them 812 00:53:40,920 --> 00:53:47,119 and you're still obsessing over corporate press's coverage and you're upset, I mean, 813 00:53:47,199 --> 00:53:52,079 it's just it is so frustrating to see the lack of understanding there. Yeah, 814 00:53:52,119 --> 00:53:58,119 and I will echo you on the Desantists. Though everything we say comes 815 00:53:58,199 --> 00:54:01,239 from love, a place of a love. I would like to see Ronda 816 00:54:01,280 --> 00:54:07,960 Santist do very very well whoever is the nominee. Between the Santist I mean, 817 00:54:07,000 --> 00:54:12,079 I consider this really just a two man race, but maybe maybe not 818 00:54:12,199 --> 00:54:16,280 from much longer. You're a misogynist, think Nicky Haley's pastor? Yeah, 819 00:54:16,320 --> 00:54:21,559 I don't. Yeah, I don't know who's Caddier Eddie Scarier, Don Lemont. 820 00:54:22,920 --> 00:54:28,039 I think that was a catty comment. But I'm a woman's natural. 821 00:54:29,400 --> 00:54:31,960 But no, I think I considered a two man race. I would between 822 00:54:31,960 --> 00:54:37,159 the two of whoever gets the nomination, I will be thrilled with um one 823 00:54:37,199 --> 00:54:42,119 more so than the other. But I when I criticized the santiss Rondo Santis 824 00:54:42,119 --> 00:54:45,679 and in his campaign more accurately, more specifically, it is because I would 825 00:54:45,679 --> 00:54:50,760 like to see him do very well. There are people but a little bit 826 00:54:50,840 --> 00:54:52,960 maybe Like shortly before he got into the campaign, I was writing a lot 827 00:54:53,000 --> 00:54:57,119 of things because I was very impressed with what he's done in Florida, what 828 00:54:57,280 --> 00:55:00,480 his message has been. As he was gearing up to to running campaign and 829 00:55:00,559 --> 00:55:06,000 national campaign, there were Trump people who really didn't like the things I was 830 00:55:06,000 --> 00:55:08,599 saying about Rhonda Santis. They really they would talk to me in private or 831 00:55:08,679 --> 00:55:14,639 DM me on Twitter. Um the second I became more critical of Ronda Santis, 832 00:55:14,639 --> 00:55:16,920 which is for the purpose of again wanting to see him do well and 833 00:55:17,039 --> 00:55:22,719 knock off this nonsense that's going on right now. The Trump people quieted down 834 00:55:22,800 --> 00:55:25,880 quite a bit, but just they should understand it's not because I've I've turned 835 00:55:25,880 --> 00:55:30,639 onto Santis. I don't consider myself on to Santis's side. I don't consider 836 00:55:30,679 --> 00:55:32,400 myself on Trump's side. I would like both of them to do well. 837 00:55:35,039 --> 00:55:37,360 But yes, all the criticism comes from comes from a place of love. 838 00:55:39,280 --> 00:55:43,920 What a great place to end on, Eddie sounds good. Is there anything 839 00:55:43,920 --> 00:55:45,800 else you feel compelled to the air? No, don't I want to talk 840 00:55:45,800 --> 00:55:51,360 about Barbie? That's right, you've had kenne f Yes, I've had kenneff 841 00:55:51,440 --> 00:55:55,559 O skinny A little cringe, all right, Eddie's scary DC calmness at the 842 00:55:55,559 --> 00:56:00,400 Federalist. You can also make sure to pick up Eddie's books over at Amazon 843 00:56:00,679 --> 00:56:04,119 dot com. There are several of them now, so a lot of betreads 844 00:56:04,159 --> 00:56:06,960 for you if you're heading to the pool or heading to the ocean this summer. 845 00:56:07,159 --> 00:56:09,480 I'm Emo Edaciensi culture editor here at The Federalist, would be back soon 846 00:56:09,599 --> 00:56:14,199 with more until then, be lovers of freedom and anxious for the friend, 847 00:56:20,079 --> 00:56:30,440 I heard the fame, vice a reason, and then it faded away.