Question, jumps down, side users, tuning down, jumps down, sideway
down upstarts down us night time, tis time, Jack country, Dad,
Scott, didn't stack, stock, didn't start, tack, stay shut,
and I still sat eight kah, Chuck. We're gonna take care of this,
this mythology in the case, as soon as we can get our collective
craft together. Over here, I'm trying to bring Zach into the call,
Carmike, Let's see if we can get a manager. Zach. Is that
you? Yes, there we go. Okay, Now I've got everybody kind
of screwed up my plans through the evening, all right. Anyway, as
I was explaining, no problem, no problem, it's just the Skype thing
is always like a hairy situation anyway, even when everything's working right. And
my apologies to you guys. If somehow you get knocked out of the call
or whatever during this, ye're having internet troubles. So we'll do our best
to keep this show together. Okay, But anyway, this is excellent.
This is the second in the series on the JFK mythology, The assassination mythology
exposed as the little graphic says that Zach designed and I had to Butcher earlier
today to put a number two on. But there it is, and we
passed it around two. Okay, the blind guy cut up a graphic.
What do you think happens? People? Anyway, It's all right, it
doesn't even match color wise, but at least we got the point across that
this is the second in the series. And we'll stop joking around really quickly.
Before I go any further, I just want to say, if you
guys want to go to ucy dot tv slash te there is all kinds of
stuff there. I know I started to say this earlier, but you can
actually get the RSS feed there for this show, which contains several different episodes,
not only about the JFK assassination, but about many other topics. There
is also a donate button there for me, and then lower on the page
on the left hand side, there's a donate button for the network and either
one of us could use a little bit of help now and then anyway,
Oh, look at this, we've got a phone caller already hitting me up
and we didn't even begin on the topic. Let's see who it is.
Okay, caller, I have randomly added you and we didn't even begin discussing
topics. But hey, I'll tell you what. Why don't you kick it
off? Well, I just say you're advertisment on fight bookend of course,
wanting to get in a little discussion, all right, So what part do
you want to start at? Where do you want to start at? How
far you've been along? Because I'm just me, I'm stepping in midway.
Ah well, I'll tell you what. We've been tackling a lot of the
different things that have been passed around which are conspiracy oriented but unfortunately are not
founded by very good facts or evidence. And I'm wondering, I'll tell you
what. Let's let's do it this way. Since you don't have a topic
in mind, and we didn't kick off our topics yet, what do you
think happened regarding the JFK assassination? I mean, what is your what is
your viewpoint? Although you said you know you've kind of joined this in recently,
what do you what do you think actually happened? Well, from just
common sense, why is I feel if you really got down to the basics
of it, it was a complete setup from the whole world get go.
Because if common sense would dictate that all wall was the long Rut computer.
I would be really mad at Ruby for killing him, because I would like
to take him out to Las Vegas to do gambling. There's too much that
happened in such a period of time that it stands no reasoning that Lee Harvey
Oswall would have the knowledge or ability to pull it off by himself. Plus,
you would not have the ability for the police to find such a man
in such a short period of time after the crime. We can't even get
crimes fit and found out with cameras that have photo idea of a guy robbing
a convenience store. You got it, you got it, and you know
what, that is absolutely true. I'll say this that you know nobody.
I don't think anybody on this panel tonight supports the low nut conclusion. None
of us, as an Oswald did it guy, although there was a point
in time when I thought that was a possibility, but absolutely none of the
evidence actually lines up. None of it makes sense, and so we know
that that's part of the mythology. But what do you think happened? I
mean, we're we'll discard the idea that Oswald did it immediately and say,
well, what do you think happened. I mean, do you think it
was a plot by the CIA? Do you think it was the right wing
factions in the country. I mean, do you think LBJ was responsible?
You know what do you think actually happened? The day I see it and
believe it. You had c I, a CIA involvement, you had FBI
cover up, you had mafia tithes into it, you had plans way before
November. If you've done any digging or listening or reading of the attempt that
was supposed to be made in mind, I mean this goes out. There
was a guy in Georgia that had predicted this from a high building with a
high powered rifle. And the man left at Kano is not a high powered
rifle as by perspect so to do the damage and everything, there's nobody pulled
off. Lee Harvey Auswalls quote unquote shots Yep. Well, you know what,
for the most part, you're dead on, so uh and and and
you know it took me twenty twenty years to get to that point, but
uh yeah, you're dead on, except for you know that the guy you're
talking about in Georgia there he was related to the case, and he had
been in Georgia and had been involved in that's uh, oh boy, what
does that guy there's something like that, wasn't it? Both his names minor?
Well, okay, there there there was that that that whole thing in
Miami. And what we're talking about is that the the tape that was made
regarding it in the high powered rifle and all that, that's kind of a
misleading thing too. But the plots that were noticeable, the things that we
can trace that actually, you know, seem to have been threats to Kennedy
prior to Dallas. We're in we're in Miami, we're in that area,
we're in Chicago. And also there's even the possibility of that there's a little
less evidence for it in Los Angeles previous to Dallas. So yeah, you're
dead on there. The FBI covered it up. You can see the hands
of the agency all over a lot of stuff, and uh, it leads
you well away from a loan nutt who just decided to do it one day,
doesn't it. Yeah, United the one thing that always Carlan because that
was doing the back shots in to Kennedy and you know, everything that's been
done with. They even had one time where they had pulled off where the
shot had went through Kennedy at a proposed shooting and then hit Connolly. But
what so wird is the shot that proposedly quote unquote went through the throat and
hit Connelly had him setting I mean setting straight up. If you go back
and look at the film, that I say is altered the shot that actually
hit Kennedy in the throat and no way hit Connonlly because there was no reaction
from Connelly, who was still going to have to turn around. So all
of that telling Harlan's Spectors BS is just that, I mean, you can
make things happen. But in the throw unquote little wall, that was an
impossible shot for that to have fantasied. And in the situation that was going
on, like I said, you had a guy sitting was supposedly in a
sniffers mess they had just got through eating chicken or there was a greevy chicken
bag up there where somebody had eaten and drank, and at that point there's
not anything on the rifle but one palm print, right, was completely ridiculous
because that was more than likely Bonnie ree Williams lunch too, And you know,
even on top of that, you had someone go up into the snipers
mess. They had taken all the evidence, taken everything away, and what
pictures you see of it is a restage snipers mess. People don't realize that.
Well, you're you're covering a lot of ground. You're covering a lot
of ground. And matter of fact, we had a discussion just the other
day about this with the boxes being moved around and and how strange it is
what was going on and everything else. Well, just to give you an
idea, if you look at the boxes of the way they were staged in
there for the shot. From the way it looks from the pictures that I've
seen, let me praise it that way that I've seen, that sniflesness was
set up for a left handed shot, not a right handed lee. Harvey
Aldiwall was right handed. I know because I'm like, I am a left
handed shooter, and you do not if you're going left to right, which
is what you would see in that window. That rifle was set up for
a left handed person because he had room to move. If it was set
up for a right he would have had to catch him coming down Elm Street.
Think about it. Look at the picture, Well, he gets them
to coming down Elm Street. You mean from Houston. You mean you're talking
about onto Houston, right right, Yeah, that would have been the logical
shot for a left handed shooter. Uh what if the boxes were set up?
Yeah, exactly that Nobody I've never heard anybody mentioned that. I'm like,
my gosh, they said, was he right handed or left handed?
With if you go back to his military quote unquote picture that's showing him in
anating position, is definitely a right handed shooter. M Within the military,
they would at sometimes would try to switch a left handed shooter through a right
handed shooter. No, you're absolutely right. The only the only thing,
uh, Militier, Joseph Miltier was the guy I was trying to think of,
by the way, right. Uh, but but you know, Militier
is an interesting character. But I don't think he had anything to do with
the assassination. I think that there was in Dallas. Well, there was
pictures of him in Dallas during the assassination. All right, Well see that
figure which is identified as Militaier by some people in the research community. I
don't think is defending to proof about it. I know that there has been
things said that he was there afterwards and everything else. But realistically, interestingly
enough, Militier is more easily linkable to uh to the king assassination, believe
it or not, because he was actually trying to raise money for that,
for that exact purpose. Oh yeah, that's that's the truth. We have
the the the testimony and the tape involving himself in an informant named Willie Somerset,
which has been bandied about as a connection directly to it. But I
I think that Miltier might have heard something. I think that there might have
been various plots going on, and I don't think Miltier knew about Dallas.
And I don't think that's him in that picture. I couldn't wrong, because
it's hard to tell. You're looking at a pretty rough looking image. When
it comes to that photograph, well, let me think that the love Life
in the wind or in the go Away? Do you think that was Lee
Harvey, Ali's white olive Wall or Lovelace Billy Lovelady? Do you think it
was him? Absolutely? I mean, I don't have any defensive of answer
there, because it's mighty funny that on that picture that shows everything, there's
one guy's face that is marked out just wearing a black suit. If you
look, well, it look it looks that way. But you got to
understand you're talking about a very small portion of a photograph which has been blown
up and manipulated and passed around a lot. Okay, when when I got
ahold of a copy of this, and I discussed this on the last show,
But we were going to discuss doorway Man tonight, actually, and I'm
wondering, what thea I've been talking this whole time and not letting my guests
talk. Carmine, I'm so Harry. I didn't mean the hog to show
me either. I'm sorry, no, no, it's it's okay. But
I want to give them a chance to chime in because I know this was
one of the topics we were going to cover tonight was doorway Man. So
I wonder if either Carla, Zach or Trish would want to jump in on
this and uh and discuss doorway Man. I give you an automatic answer that
I think it's Billy Lovelady and uh and and I have no reason to believe
otherwise. There are various problems with the photograph. When you begin blowing up
a photograph which is chemically made like that. You know, all sorts of
interesting anomalies begin to appear in the the ancillary portions of the image that weren't
part of the focus, you know, for for the optical area of focus,
and all sorts of what I call distortions, uh have are present in
that photograph once you get away from the main part of the image. But
I'd love for one of you guys to jump in on this. Well,
I'll leave it to the photographic archivists, which would be Zach Uh. Yeah,
Hey, guys, thank you. Cart very interesting points that you raised.
Definitely, the issue of who's standing in that door way is something that's
you know, almost impossible to resolve, like Chuck said, based on you
know, the quality of the image. It's basically a blown up portion of
a small, you know, section of a photograph, and you know,
trying to decipher who that may or may not be is almost impossible. And
something needs to be taken into consideration also, is that that's a public area
and that could have been almost anybody in that doorway that was in Dallas at
the time. I mean, trying to narrow it down based upon lists of
who or may may or may not have been there. That's almost you know,
inconceivable to try to narrow it down like that. See, But when
when that image is cleaned up and I've taken as I stated before on this
show, I got a copy from the uh from the Chicago Tribune Archives,
Okay, and when I did the magnification myself, if I had to bet
as to one of the figures that that person has been alleged to be over
the years, I would definitely put my money on Jilly Love Lady. Uh.
And I'm not the only person to have taken that photograph and tried to
examine it. Who you know, could have had all sorts of agendas in
play here. You know, somebody like Oliver Stone, who has stated when
he examined the photograph during the making of that movie. And here's a guy
who knows a little something about photography. Uh, you know, did say
that he's pretty sure that's Love Lady standing in the in the doorways, you
know, right. But you know, like when you when you're trying to
say something is one hundred percent rock solid, I mean, would you say
that you're one hundred percent certain that that's love Lady, or would you be
more inclined to say, well, that looks like it probably is love Lady.
I would absolutely say that. I would say that it looks like it's
probably love Lady. But I would definitively say it's not Oswald. The the
character does not have see And here's the problem with a certain chiropractor. He
does work on this picture out there. Uh, you know, he doesn't
take into account all of the aspects of body m canics that are self evident
in any footage of Oswald. This is not the body structure of Lee Harvey
Oswald in that doorway under any circumstances, and I would be hard pressed to
believe that the distortions would give me a completely different character of the body.
I think you both are absolutely correct. Also, we might want to factor
in the fact that none of the witnesses ever said they saw Oswald, even
Oswald himself places himself in the building, right, I mean, despite the
fact that people have said that you know these these you know, really,
I don't even know how to describe the note taking of you know, of
Fritz there, but I mean it's it's horrendous and it's all in shorthand.
And he says, Okay, I was outside with Bill Shelley, But we
don't know necessarily what time that was. You know, there's no annotations there
that make any sort of sense out of that. And here's the thing again,
I would just say that I don't believe it's Oswald generally speaking. Can
I say with one hundred percent certainty that it is love Lady. No,
But again, if I was to make a bet on it, that's that's
where it leads me to. And most of the witnesses who have been asked
about that photograph over the years, the people that we know for a fact
we're in the vicinity, have stated that that was most likely Billy Lovelady,
even you know, I mean Wesley. I'd like to Wesley bus Sorry,
I'd like to add something to you. Good. During the hearings, the
Warrant Commission hearings, there is actually a gentleman named Don Bonifad who was looking
into this during the actual hearings. And actually it's in Algamy's statements and testimony
that this gentleman had contacted him to discuss it. And I'm actually looking at
an article right now the New York Herald Tribune nineteen sixty and it's a six
page long document discussing this. So this was under the noses of the Warm
Commission when this was taken being taken, the statements were being taken. Another
interesting points Marguerite Oswald in her testimony, she stated that the woman and the
baby that are in the picture which the caller had mentioned, that it looks
like a man's face is blocked there, but if you look closer, it
almost looks like the baby's heads in the way. Marguerite Oswald was adamant that
that was Marina and June in the picture, and she actually asked the Warm
Commission to take magnifying glasses to look at it. And she was part of
this conspiracy as well, thinking that that was Oswald in the doorway. But
this particular story has been going on for quite some time, and again before
the Warn Commission was actually released. Yeah, that's true, and of course
we find later that, you know, Marguerite is completely wrong because if that
was the case, you know, how could she have been sitting where she
was all that afternoon or all that morning. You know, Marina was traveling
on our own and way exactly the present exactly, So the point right,
and again this is a good indication that this was in fact looked at by
the Warren Commission at that time. So a lot of people like to think
that it was just sprung up afterwards, but it's not. They actually knew
about this scenario as early as I can find, documented as May twenty fourth
in this article. I do believe Margerite testified prior to that, if I
recall, but this was definitely on the books during the Warren Commission hearings.
I would also add, Doorman is sort of like the permutation of all of
them, all of these other men that sprang up in all the photography that
don't have witnesses, that don't have primary evidence to support them. Well,
yeah, this is another problem. There are a whole lot of these sort
of amorphous images that appear in photographs. As again I say, there are
artifacts of the type of photography that existed at the time. All right,
And this kind of leads us into another part of the discussion. But you
know, what do you think of what we have to say about that color?
Well, I don't know if he can hear us anymore. I'm sorry,
that's my fault. The thing about it, whenever you're dining in photography
from these from what's being that has been out in public. You got to
remember, there's nobody had their pictures developed themselves. Everything was taken. To
give you a perfect example, going from Houston to am Street, when they
make the turn with the limo, it's mighty funny. Two fems that come
back are like old fem used to burn a little bit when they get too
close to the lamp. If you remember, and you're going to the movie
theaters, there's two separate fees them that will burn at the exact same time.
Supposedly they were damaged. How these two films that you are trying to
microscopically at the time protect and see what's going on because you trying to find
the killer or what, you know, any little thing that would show up.
But yet these two separate films are damaged at the same point. Well,
there there's a lot of strange things going on with the films. There
was a dragnet put out by the by the FBI and the Secret Service in
the Dallas area for all films and photographs, UH that went out to the
you know, to the developing labs and everything else to try and capture the
amateur films. Uh best they could, and UH you know, and and
some things did slip through by the way, they didn't catch everything if you
did, But you don't never see none of that coming out. There's nothing.
There is so much evidence in the time from the one of the shells
that wanted the plet me not shells, but one of the slugs that hid
in the graph that there's a police officer I believe it's a police officer in
plain clothes and another guy setting there pointing at it. I mean, I've
seen this picture. I've seen so many different pictures of angles and things that
went on. That's like everybody I've heard talking about you can't shoot from the
drain there was not enough room. Well, people have got to remember that
road has been repaid probably about four times. Well, you can't. You
can't make the shot from the from the from the storm dream that's on the
low level on the ground. That's like, I don't know that. I
don't know because you've got to go back and take the road back to what
the level it was. And believe me, from a storm drain you've got
pretty good range from even like on the grassy No, you've got more range
as far as means it and being able to shoot an upper trajectory. Now,
whether they could see it, I don't know that. I haven't done
the measurements myself. I'm saying there's more room there to do it at that
day than what you can ever get coming forth today because the road has been
raised. In other words, they don't raise the drain level because they're still
opening there for the water to run in. If you've ever seen a recapped
road, they add on, well, I understand that. But even even
if you allow for that, you got a two degree you got a two
degree downward pitch on Elm Street. Okay, Uh, that's not enough of
an elevation from the distance where that storm drain is. Even if you gave
them an extra six to eight inches of height, they're still not going to
be able to get over the limo with a straight trajectory. Doesn't happen.
Do you mind if I say something, truck go right ahead? Uh.
What I would like to in as well is the wounds don't match that location.
The wounds have to match where the bullet came from comes from. See.
That's the other problem is that the trajectory doesn't match. Now for storm
drains, if you look toward the bridge. Okay, there are storm drain
areas over there that are interesting, okay, but the one that's on the
ground there, that's that's highly unlikely. I mean, you know, I
wouldn't say nothing is impossible, but but it doesn't match. And and also
the shot from the grassy hole doesn't match the wounds either. The shot in
the grassynle, though, does match up to the to the bullet that that
supposedly landed on the turf over by the manual cover. Now that's a whole
other area, and really nobody wants to examine that, because if you can
completely connect that together, you have the absolute guarantee that you've got two shooters,
and no official investigation wants to know about that. The thing I steel
maintained that you had more shooters there than than even the two. Because if
you listen to testimony going back for everything, people that are highly qualified,
I mean highly qualified, herd bullet them by their ear that was standing over
by the graphy noose. And let me tell you, if you've ever had
a bullet come by your head, you know what it sounds like and feels
like. No I had ever hit No, I understand, and I look
at people like Charles brem who was a witness, who was standing on the
opposite side of the street from the grassy Knoll, who hadn't been in combat,
had understood what it sounds like when a bullet is fired, had known,
you know, had been trained to understand where bullets were coming from,
and everything else. I looked to a guy like that who did explain that
he felt as though one of them had come from that direction. Doesn't mean
that it's one of the ones that struck Kennedy. So let's food. I
mean, that's that's one thing as far as Kennedy, and I know a
lot of people have discounted or don't believe him, and not that I'm saying
I do believe that. I can't tell you who has actually told the story
that has not really had the information to actually know what's going on, and
that's James File because the way when you describe that the gifts, what he
has done on interview makes more sense than what all these other clowns has come
up with. Well, okay, now, now all of us want to
respond to that because the problem with the File story, and I'll just give
you my real quick answer to it, and then I'm gonna let each of
my each of my panel here go at that. The problem with the file
story for me is that it does not match with the forensics. You can't
have a shot from that area, and no photographic evidence indicates that there was
a shooter in the position that he claimed to be in. So we've got
you. He hadn't actually said where he was exactly at he from his interview
that I see he said where he put in that he said. But whenever
he comes out in testimony like more in testimony, he actually took the X
where he was at. He has said where he it has changed. His
location has changed. Yeah, his location has actually changed. He's done more
than one interview. You can, Yeah, you can compare them yourself,
and you can hear that he actually does give exactly where his position is.
Uh, he doesn't market I know that. On the original interview that Bob
Vernon had commissioned, Uh, he didn't exactly explain. And he said that
if they would come and take his official sworn testimony, that he would make
it on a map for them. I know that. But the other later
interviews he did, he gave a lot more explanation as to where he was,
and even in the general vicinity between the differences in the position he's given,
there's no photographic evidence for it, and it doesn't line up to the
head shot in any way, shape or form, and he definitively says he
scored the head shot. Now that's my commentary. I want to give a
Carmine and Zach and Trish each a chance to say something about it, though,
ladies first, shall Zach Igo, I thank you. I just find
it interesting again, I mentioned this on the last show that you know James
File came up as soon as the Roscale White story was debunked, and I
just find it very intriguing how one person is knocked down and then another flash
of people are coming up with these stories. Again, James File is incredible.
That's the nuts and bolts of it. Unfortunately, you know, again
we have witnesses, apparent witnesses that claim that they saw Roscal White the shooter
there. I'm speaking particularly about Beverly Over, but again it's been proven time
and time again that he was not in fact there. And then of course
you know where was files during this time when Roscar White was on the map,
And I'd like to I'd like to, you know, elaborate a little
bit on what Chuck said about the forensic information about I spent a lot of
time reading the testimonies of the people that you know performed the autopsy and were
present, and they all universally agree that the shot went basically depending upon who
you are trust in this, that it came from the back to the front
or the front to the back, and all of the evidence, the X
rays, which are quite cleared that the damage is that it didn't come from
the side. It was evidently a blow out of some sort and the side
area, but it no way did a shot come or exit. In no
way did a shot come from the side. A bullet can't do a U
turn his head, so if it came from the right side, it can't
exit from the right side either. May I go? Okay? The beginning
of my problems with mister Files and his story are that one, he has
changed his story multiple times, not only the location of where he said he
was, but he has also changed He originally went with Garrison's claim that the
route was never published and there was a last minute change, which is not
true. If you go back and you look at the newspapers Dallas Morning News
Dallas Times Herald. You can see the full route was published. It was
published on the nineteenth, which causes there's two Dallas Times Herald Dallas Morning News.
Yeah, but but they did publish the route. It was out there.
This wasn't a lot next minute thing, as files claimed. There wasn't
no last minute changed. The Secret Service finished it on the eighteenth. It
was published on the nineteenth. That's the earliest Oswalk could have learned if he
did it alone, which kind of kills the commission. But that's another story.
No, both that both of those papers published the same route, which
is the real route, a foolish route because they didn't need to make that
turn. They could have bypassed, and that was against all protocol out there
to start with. Well, yeah, absolutely it was. And back then,
yes, back then, yes, it was that the vehicle should have
never run that slow, it should have never made that kind of turn,
It should have never been exposed for that long to people. There was all
kinds of things wrong with the Secret Service protection. But interestingly enough, as
far as I know, and I haven't seen evidence to the contrary, they're
they're exactly right about their assertions. Regarding what was published and what was public
knowledge, and it was knowledge on the nineteenth what the Motorca route would be.
Yeah, So I mean that pretty much, in my opinion, kills
his story. If he's creating any part of it, why should we regard
any of it. So if the story changes, then he's got the forensic
and medical inconsistency, Zac pointed out, then he's got the inconsistencies. And
he sort of kind of crops up conveniently after the Ricky White story goes down,
though Chuck told us he was around before that as well, because the
story was sold. It was sold from Bob Vernon to whim Dank Fire.
And let me revert back to one question. Whenever we was talking about the
shot going from front to back or back to front, how do you have
a actually going from the front if there is a side entrance that you have
a blowout in the back of the head that all doctors in that trauma room
said, plus nurses said, was in the back of king his head.
If you don't that blowout had to come from some way, and it was
the way in which his head was actually timed. And remember you're deming with
a film that has been altered. There is no mistake about that film was
altered. Okay, I'll give you that point. That film was altered,
and let's just discard the film. How about this. I spent time talking
to doctor McClellan, who was president of Parkland also. Now, the account
that I understand is that it sounds to me like you have something that passed
very much on the right side of Kennedy's head, Okay, seemingly from front
to back. Not only that, but we have other accounts here where there's
plenty of reliable medical witnesses who saw the body as well that explained that you
have a small bullet hole coming in through the throat, okay, which they
wound up utilizing to uh, to do what tracheostomy in order to perform you
know what was really a waste of time the life saving procedures they attempted because
his head is blown apart, right, and the main the main part of
the blowout, when you look at the X rays, when you listen to
the people that actually handles the body that are willing to talk to anybody anymore,
uh, the main part of the blowout is on the side of the
head. And if you consider the pressure cavity that would be created from a
bullet entering from front to back or back to front. Either way, Uh,
it makes a whole lot more sense. But now, what you're saying
was on the side of the head was refer to what was in the film
because if you look, but I'm not referring to it, you see,
I'm not referring to the film at all. I'm telling you the side of
the head that you're saying that was blown out, there was no shot from
the front. The front of that head is not heart is if he took
a picture of his eye and he gotta scray up the skull, there's no
damage. The bullet went into the side. Plus, if you remember what
I'm just going on, what foule sal see, there's the problem because the
x rays, if you ever look at the X rays, you can see
a good portion of the skull missing right up to the eye. Okay,
which uh, which is not an undamaged face. The undamaged face idea is
really kind of fictitious because it comes from the fact that when they laid him
on his back, there's that picture they called the stare of death picture,
and all you gotta do, and as we learned later by constantly talking to
those who performed that autopsy and were present when the pictures were taken, skin
was laid over all kinds of areas in order to make it look certain ways.
Okay, so forget the film, it's in the AI the files as
well, where they talk about they say reflected, They reflected the skin and
the bone. They replaced pieces to make it look more whole for certain pictures,
right, and the reflected portion is what they call sometimes the mystery photograph,
where you can literally see portion of the skull and it's almost hard to
orient. And in fact, doctor Michael Bobbon most famously publicly could not orient
the photograph correctly on an easel for the HSCA thank you, But anyway,
Zach, you had something to say. The only thing I was referring to
was fall. Yeah, yeah, another important point to make about with no
problem. But if look, if the files story doesn't match the evidence,
what he's supposed to do with it. The shot to the side of the
head doesn't work, based on the X rays, based on the photographs that
have been released, based on witness testimony, based on a whole lot of
things. He couldn't have scored that headshot, and he does insist he scored
that headshot. No matter whatever the story. If you look at one of
the pictures that were shown, there is an interest wound on the side of
the head about at the point of where Foul puts his finger asking him hitting,
because he was saying, I think it was Rosetti that was behind him.
They both shot simultaneously. Oh right, damn, okay, I understand,
But there is no entrance wound on the side. The fractures which emanate
from the hole in the picture. This is the round hole in the picture.
This ain't no fracture. Fractors don't fractor in a round, circular or
old, sir. The picture you have might not be an original. And
if you don't have an original, you don't have the right picture the picture
doctor. But no, no, there are originals, sir, you just
do not have them because the ones that are not the originals original where the
gentleman placed the metal fragments in the goal for the X rays. Once again,
you're just saying things that you saw on this thing. And unless you
have evidence with the gentleman that did the actual X rays. Okay, But
that's one person's opinion if there's no evidence the opinion when he's the guy that
did it you're talking about, not the guy claims to be the guy you're
talking about, Gerald Custer, And there is a dispute as to a whether
he was actually the one doing the X rays. First of all, because
there was more than one person operating that portable X ray machine that night.
I ever saw was the one operating the portable X ray machine who I spoke
to also back in the early nineties, didn't get much out of them,
unfortunately, but uh but sadly, Uh yeah, Eversall was the one who
was actually in charge. And again, you know, we can we can
go back and forth as to witnesses contradicting each other and uh even Gerald Custer
contradicting himself, which has done over the years. Uh. He is dead
now, so he can't defend himself anymore. But the fact is that that
he was. He also contradicted himself and that's where the idea of laying the
extra fragmentships from and all that too. Let me ask you this, it
was ball up the four Do you think the bullet hole in the front of
the throat was exit or answered, my opinion would be entrance. I'm glad
to hear that because even the one doctor that has been saying it all the
time, uh that it was an entrance. All of a sudden, there's
been wonderport where it came out that it was an exit because they heard they
was a shot in the back, which that is the biggest because they was
shot in the back first, there's no doubt, but that bullet didn't go
anywhere near the throat because there's no way for it to alligne to do it.
No, that's that's right. Here's what I believe. I believe that
there is a wound in Kennedy's back, there is a wound in Kennedy's throat,
and there is a wound in Kennedy's head. That is what I believe,
based on all the different experts that I've spoken to, based on the
fact that I've seen the X rays, based on the fact that I've seen
the closest thing to the autopsy photos that you can possibly get, which was
made from the fox set, I would say that that is exactly the case.
But the shot from the side, the shot from the knoll, didn't
land. Even if one was fired, And I won't even argue that one
was fired. I believe that it did not strike Kennedy. That's that's highly
possible, you know. It's it's mighty funny that everybody ran to that direction.
They didn't run to the street, didn't run backwards. They all run
through the know. How many films have you examined of the aftermath of the
assassination, The one that's mostly been shown one guy with his wife and child
that went down on the ground. Okay, that that that out there?
He was he was certain one come from the know. Well, the best
image of the best image of that family you're talking about actually comes from a
film that was shot by a by a Navy photographer and various shots of them.
Oh, good lord. Bill Man, he was pretty close too.
He was there. He was really young. He was there with his wife,
Bill Newman. Bill Newman, that's who it is. Bill Newman is
on the ground over over top of his son, with his wife over top
of another one of their children. That comes from a Navy photographer. There
are over there are over thirty five films taken of the sequence between between Houston,
Maine and elm only three of them to the best of my noteweight one,
two, three, excuse me, four of them actually capture the head
shot. But there are actually four films that capture the shooting sequence to some
degree. And there's actually two of them that I'm personally in possession of that
have never been shown on any TV show. But anyway, the thing is,
when you look at all those films, they're also kind of consistent with
the existing X rays, with the existing like I say, the Fox version
of the autopsy photos and all that. I'm sorry, I'm like dominating this
conversation. I mean, but the thing is with files, there's no headshot
from the side, there's no evidence for it from the blood spatter, which
I covered in depth on here with Sherry Feaster. There's no evidence of it
in the photographs, there's no evidence of it in the X rays. And
despite the fact that witnesses ran to the knell. Okay, because you got
to understand, Dale Plaza is not something where it's easy to discern where shots
come from. Okay, that is one of those lone nut points that they
make that I actually agree with that an ear witness is not really that great
in this case. But if you look at the aftermath from a whole lot
of those other films, you'll also find that people ran in some other directions
as well. The majority did run to the knell. But that that's why
I'm saying. I'm not looking. I'm not saying that he that James File
did it or whatever. I'm just saying what he has pointed out from what
pictures I have. Because there is one picture of Kennedy laying there that you
have to look, but there is a circular hole right up above headed back
to the top center of his head set through the hole right behind that,
I would say probably like a half inch to the inch behind his eyebrow.
Okay, And it's because there's open bomb there, right. That's a defect
that I'm telling you. Now, if you look at the clear direct image
on the Fox set, it looks a whole lot different than what's circulating out
there, and it does look a whole lot more circular. And I don't
know if anybody altered it or whatever over time, it looks a whole lot
more circular in these images that are being you know, passed around on the
internet. But I can tell you when it comes to the autopsy and all
that went on there. I don't have any faith in any of that because
the bottom line, that was nothing but the cover up from the from the
time they rolled his body whenever it got there, for the time he left.
It was total cover up. Marrith bomb, Yeah, go go right
ahead, and then and then I'll sell you what I'm gonna do. I'm
gonna move on after that. Okay. It's really a question of numbers,
sir. They can't cover up everything. There's over ten million files and that's
just in the files we know about, so they can't. They didn't have
time. They wouldn't have time to run the government for the last fifty years
if they were busy altering everything. At most maybe one to five percent of
everything got altered. Most things couldn't be because the Commission didn't know about most
of the files. The NHSCA ain't never had access to all of the files,
and new files came out after all these people were dead, so they
couldn't have altered everything. It's a very very small amount of key things that
would be altered or destroyed, not everything. But when it comes to the
autopsy car Mine, I think we could probably all agree that it was done
so disastrous. Yes, you know nothing. You where you thought alt and
you all can one part of it. It changes the whole picture, Yes
it does, but that doesn't mean everything is tainted. That means that one
piece of evidence is tainted, not everything. Paint is the whole thing.
No it doesn't. Yeah, no, these days I am along a wound.
Then you won't have any correct for anything else. Yes, but that
would only paint the medical investigation. That doesn't paint the whole case. The
other evidence is still good. The majority of the evidence is there, but
people have to look at it. They can't just guess. That's the problem
is a lot of people are just guessing. They're not reading the evidence.
Well, I'll tell you what we're gonna do. I didn't even get your
name. Caller, Paul, what's your name? All Paul? Paul?
Okay, Paul, listen, I really thank you. You've you've contributed a
great deal to the show, and I'm sorry. I mean, at the
end of the day, I don't believe the file story, and I don't
know anybody who that I would consider, somebody who has actually investigated any of
this stuff in depth to really actually believe his story. And I'll tell you
something, if for a moment, anybody in any sort of position and the
power wanted to go after him. You know, you've got confessions on tape,
you know, And uh, I would love to see them dissect it
and try and prove that it's a reality. Uh, you know, and
I and I would love that. That would be the easy solution. That
would be great. But that was the investigator that was supposed to interview him,
that was about to have Kennedy's body as zoomed. No, nobody has
ever successfully gotten anywhere near exhooming Kennedy's body. I think his name was West,
wasn't it. Yeah. West wanted that done, supposedly, and a
lot of things have been said post his death, and he did leave the
file story. But I got to tell you he wasn't anywhere near Nobody has
ever come near exhooming Kennedy's body, which would settle a whole lot of stuff.
The one dying for sure is still an open case. It ain't closed.
No, it's still an open homicide on Dallas on Dallas police flaughter today.
As that's that's the straining thing. If they had this belong if they
had it all in the evidence, they would have done closed this case a
long time ago. It's still open. Therefore, like I said, everything
that you look at, no matter how much you investigate it, you have
to really question it more than what. Oh well, I think this is
headed the right way. That's why I said I was leaning to James File
because a lot of what he said was adding toward toward what looks like that
i'd seen. Not saying that he was the cat that did it, but
a lot of stuff that he was telling he had no way or access to
that information because he's been in jail for damn long. I understand that.
That's why I think a lot of his information turns out to be inconsistent with
a lot of other evidence. So look, I'm gonna let you go,
but I really appreciate all your contributions to the show tonight. Man. I
want to thank you for calling in Paul problem. Appreciate it. And then
you're doing this conversation, and please don't type none of my voice gions.
It's to heart. You love discussing. Listen, it's all in open discussion,
and I'm glad to have it. Thank you, sir, Thank you.
So that was Paul's thing, and and there you go again with the
files thing. Uh notice that no matter how many times I say it's inconsistent
with the evidence, Well, then maybe the evidence is no good. Uh
why is his story going to have more weight than the actual evidence that we
do know about, et cetera, et cetera. Well, what can I
say? I don't know, guys, what do you responder? Or Zach?
Do you guys want to go first? Well, I just want to
say one thing, and I want to say something about Jeril Custer, is
that I would suggest that anybody read his r BE testimony or listen to it,
and then they can decide whether or not he's telling the truth. Oh
yeah, definitely do that. But also examine his earlier statements because, like
I said, they did change. There are changes, there are alterations or
additions, So examine the whole thing. Well, he was I mean,
he was also on the stand. He was on the stand for you know,
his testimony, and you'd have to give that a certain amount of weight
as well well. Right, But also the influence of various things. I
mean, he literally walked into one of his ARRB meetings carrying a conspiracy oriented
book, which I'm not even gonna name here, Okay, So got to
remember that sometimes over time, different witnesses wind up adopting ideas based on the
literature that happens, you know. I mean, even a guy like James
Take, who was and I point this out all the time, was struck
in the face by something, either piece of a curb, piece of a
bullet, you know, depending on what you think happened, and the ordeal
that he suffered afterwards. That those are all real things. But toward the
end of his life he was another guy screaming that LBJ did it, you
know what I mean. And even a book was released by him. Well,
the book that he did, you know, that he brought in didn't
have much daring on the important things that he did discuss, such as the
intimidation and the fact that the extrays at that gentleman was discussing this on the
call, there did seem to take place and they were proven that they were
fabricated. Oh yeah, there is problems that there's X rays over and over
again. I mean, you know, David Mantick again, another guy who's
really interesting, pointed out some of the problems with you know, how you
have a left and right orientation to X rays and how they seem to be
made from copies and all kinds of problems. And meanwhile he was looking at
the originals, which technically speaking, the originals have not been released to the
public, right, And you know, it's just an interesting to take into
accounts all the different facets of what he had to say. And it ties
into one of the things that we were talking about to night with the photographic
evidence, and one of the things that was brought up was the fact that
some of the ex rays were intentionally burned during the procedure. They were held
up against hot lights and and you know, basically damaged right while this you
know, was taking place well, right, And I would I would attribute
that to the fact that they were looking for bullet fragments in them in the
body and they kept pulling out the films as they were being developed. That's
why these guys are running back and forth. And I don't take one person's
testimony on that. Not only did Custers say that, but others who were
president said that they were running back and forth and trying to examine these films
like on the lie under pressure with all this chaos going on in the Morgue.
You know, at Bethesda, there's all sorts of possibilities for those original
films to have been damaged, miss handled, burn held up to the wrong
light, you name it. Yeah, And then then you added, these
are these are high these are highly experienced pathologists. They should no better than
to hold you know, X spree or go up the X rays against hot
lights. I mean, that's there's no excuse for that. Well, no,
I don't think that necessarily it was the pathologist that did it. It
was probably the aides. There were over twenty people in the room, and
then you got to figure all of the agendas of the different people there and
who they're representing. Plus you got se Bert and O'Neill trying to keep notes
that specter won't even recognize as having been written later, right, and and
the whole thing though with ever saw directing h two X ray guys, one
of them being Custer and the other one I don't remember off the top of
my head. I think it was Reebe j uh direct was one of the
photographers. That's correct. Reebe was one of the photographers. You're right,
that's the one who claims that his whole his whole film was uh exposed and
destroyed. He also claims he also claims that over one hundred of his photographs
were taken. He claims that he took over one hundred press photography, certain
photographs of a certain format and that just never appeared best pack photographs. They
were called black and white ones, right, and Stringer when looking at the
photographs, when they was presented with the original photographs, UH didn't want to
say that he used that type of film or anything else. Well, that's
what made version. So I think that that that definitely contributed to the confusion
because Anacosta made a version and the White House made a version. So now
we've got two sets, some in color, some in black and white.
And at the end of the day, once everything's done by the AARB,
not only Stringer, Stringer, Spencer, Humes think ever saw Boswell, all
of them had problems with some of the pictures. Right. They claimed that
either they were missing, there were there were photographs missing, or they did
not represent what they saw that night or whatever. There were very different marks
than what she saw when you processed them at Anacosta, right, Right,
So I mean, well, these these photographs, so these photographs that rebe
claimed disappeared with an entirely different sort of format, and none of them reappeared.
And they were over one hundred of them. Oh yeah, No,
the Secret Service supposedly uh confiscated everything. All the pictures were taken, right,
Well, these never reappeared period. So I mean, and there's there's
X rays that were taken, such as a chest X ray that has never
appeared. There's other refections that were never been taken that never surfaced again.
I mean, there's a lot of different aspects of this that really shine a
lot of you know, it's criminality if you will, on the part of
those who did the autopsy. I mean, it's not just sloppiness. Yeah,
no, it's in some cases I would say it's obstruction of justice and
suppression of evidence. No. Absolutely, Like the fact that the why incision
photograph is missing. You know, give me a break that that you can't
mistake that one. Okay, you could say, well, maybe he was
laying on his back, maybe he was laying on his you know, on
his side. You could say maybe they sat him up, maybe they didn't.
But you know, during all these photographs, where the hell is the
why incision? There had to have been one made. Well, kind of
like the brain, where's the brain? Where's Waldo? Yeah? Right,
And at the end of the day, I think it's actually the the fact
that there's still confusion in it means that there's still evidence somewhere, you know,
that that has yet to be revealed. And I grant that, and
I even grant the arguments from a lot of people who believe that things were
intentionally altered and all that. But if you just take what is in existence
now and try and compare it to the story, if you can't even begin
to match it up to one of these accounts, I'm sorry. I discounted,
you know. And that's that's the problem with Files in my estimation.
Well, that's being responsible, you know, that's what you have to do
in this case. And you can't just rely upon one, you know,
account, you have to have it backed up or your potential waste in your
time. Oh and Files, especially because if one follows the trail of James
Files, it leads to Wim bunk Bar, who was also a proponent of
the Judith Baker story, which we all know quite quite well. So I
would assume that mister File's story, based on all the inconsistencies is perhaps another
feasible myth. I was trying very very hard not to bring up miss You
know I posted in a Facebook group illegally this week. Ye yeah, because
Judith. Yeah, Judith Baker literally claimed that I posted in a Facebook group
illegally. Okay. I liked when someone posted the Facebook police pitcher that was
a favorite of money. But anyway, I was trying not to bring up
Judy. I was trying, but I failed. Okay, So do we
want to move on to something else, because I mean pretty much files is
one of those things that I take as a myth. Yep, next,
yeahsh I've been doing a little bit of research on the testimony, and one
of the testimonies that really jumped out. I've been following the photographers actually that
we're partaking in the motorcade, and one that came up that was really interesting
was mister Underwood. And I don't know if anybody's ever taken the time to
read his testimony, but he actually had a broken camera and he was trying
to swap it off at the corner of Main Street and Record Street with one
of his associates. But he claimed that the motorcade was traveling too fast and
it was an impossibility to do that. Near the end of his testimony,
he states that basically he recalls sitting down and speaking to someone named Eunice,
and of course he got the name wrong, which is Amos Ewans. And
Ewans had stated that he had seen the shooter, he had seen the man
actually pulling the trigger, and he said that it was a colored fellow that
did it, a black man. So I went to the extent of following
up on his testimony, and it's quite interesting because I don't want to say
changed, but he definitely seems to have skipped over a few parts. And
it was claimed that he had seen a white spot, a bald spot on
the gentleman's head, and he wanted to clarify that he did not tell the
FBI when he gave his Affidavid that it was a white gentleman. So I'm
really not sure where this is going. But I've been doing a lot of
following up. So it's not so much just what the pictures tell you,
it's what the actual photographers of the pictures have to say as well. Another
thing that I found extremely interesting, One thing I want to add, Christ
sorry, one thing I want to add, just to give listeners a point
of reference for amos Ewans is that he can be seen photographed in various films
and photographs being taken away not very long app on the three wheel motorcycles from
the Dallas Police. And he was a very young yeah it was. It
was a ninth grade. Uh. He was black kid, by the way,
So a black kid identifying and in the window, by the way,
which you know, to me could be reasonably explained because after all, Bonnie
Ray Williams and oh boy, who's that other guy? They're they're both on
the window sill there on the fifth Jarman junior Jarman. Right, they're both
on the fifth floor sitting on the windowsill. And you can see that in
various foll times and they were absolutely present and it could have seen that as
well. So but there, but there is a weird sort of thing where
his testimony changes and a lot of people were pressured to change their testimony.
That happened too. Yes, And it's interesting because all the gentlemen that were
in that press car that I've been reached, and Couch being one of them,
Couch said that Bob Jackson actually pointed out that there was a rifle out
of the window, and he saw the rifle as well. Amos had stated
that he had thought it was a pipe sticking out of a window. He
was kind of again, being young, fifteen or so, he thought it
was just a pipe sticking out of the window. The rest of the gentleman
in that press card did not see the rifle. And one thing, let
me just double check who it was. I believe it was Jackson, he
said when they were rounding the corner around the third shot, he distinctly smelled
gunpowder as he went through, and they double checked what he was saying,
and in his testimony he says quite clearly that he smells gun powder coming around
that corner. So again, this is just something I'm looking into. I'm
not really sure where it's leading to. But nonetheless, the photos tell the
story, but so do the people who took the photos, and it's really
important to hear their words and read testimonies. I mean that, I can't
stress that enough, all right, And even going to somebody like Abraham Subruder,
who is the most well known photographer from the assassination, the you know,
the amazed and loss right, I mean, you know, he claimed
that that he actually photographed the turn on Elm Street, and everything which is
not present in extent is a bruder film by the way, you know,
in that sense been explained allegedly by the fact that he turned and wound his
camera during that time period. I got a little bit of a problem with
that, but anyway, Yeah, there's a lot of weird interesting you know.
Did Dan dan Rather when he was interviewed a couple of days later,
he even said that he saw turning onto in the film. Yeah, But
in all fairness, of course, Dan Rather also said he saw the head
go violently forward. Well, sure enough, but I mean, why would
you make that up? Why would you make up the fact that there was
a turn? There's nothing sinister about that. At the time, there would
have been no reason for him have made that up. And another interesting thing
about that turn is if you look at a Jim Towner pitcher, it's a
most famous picture he took. From my knowledge, it shows a strange van
in the background and basically parked on I believe it's Elm Street when the round
in the corner, and it's actually printed in a time Life magazine, but
it looks as though someone edited out. It's shadowy, it's glory. It's
almost like two people standing in front of the van. And I'll post a
picture on your website just so people can see it. But it's a very
unusual picture and you can definitely tell that somebody had touched it up or made
modifications. So something unusual seems to have happened around that corner between the gunpowder
smell this van, with the modifying of the Jim Towner picture, something was
going on in that corner well. And it's getting back to this approved of
film. That's basically the section of the film in my mind that has the
most indication that the film is altered because of the bystanders back behind it.
You can basically map out using other photographs that the bystanders that are visible across
the air section of them right behind there in Houston by dal Texo. There
there's no way on earth that that matches up properly. That's just not humanly
possible. And barely anybody's testimony was taken from the people in that corner as
well, so again, something was going on in that corner. No,
certainly there's a lot of weird stuff there, and of course Tina towner took
a film of them turning the corner, which which you can that's right,
it's really brief and that's I believe that was his daughter, right, Yes,
yes, his thirteen year old daughter. Yeah. One of the many
films that's not you know, dead, that has shown in brief, you
know, in compilations of films, but has never seen in its complete form,
by the way. So anyway, uh so on onward and forward.
I mean, what else do we need to cover here? Because we've actually
gone through a whole hour. I was, yeah, well, unfortunately I
had to the little files debunking, but touch fine, Well it needs to
be done, though, don't you think? Yeah? Apparently you know?
So what else I can tell you? The Skype question I got. You
guys are going to love this one. I don't know how much you guys
know about the book Mortal Error, but yeah, here we go. Hear
that? Sigh? Right? Okay, Well, this of course has to
do with the alleged secret Service agent Hickey, who won a lawsuit against the
author of that book, by the way, for being blamed for shooting Kennedy
in the back of the head with an AR fifteen. It was settled out
of court, as I was corrected because I said he won too. It
was settled out of court. Oh excuse me, but it was settled in
the favor of mister Hickey. Of course it was. But they like to
say it was settled out of court to try to give it some credibility.
Yeah, well that was the final solution on it. But I could have
we should double check that, because I think they actually lost one case and
then settled it out of court after I think that's what happened. I'll go
with your member better than mine. I just now one of the debates I
had included this ridiculous idea. No, I could be wrong, double check
it. I mean, you know, that's one of those things that I
just took as a laugh because I could not believe it when I saw in
twenty thirteen that they were actually producing new TV shows based on the idea that
this was even a remote possibility. Well, he's dead now, so now
they can't be sued. Well yeah, but I mean, come on,
I mean, you guys want to attack the whole secret Service agent shot him
in the back of the head nonsense or what? Ladies? First, Well,
I'm honest, like I've heard this story as well, goes with the
driver shooting him. I mean, I just, I really I have no
comment on it, because I mean, what is there to comment. I
mean, the likelihood of that happening is very slim to none. I'd like
to think that they're there to protect them, not to shoot them. Again,
there's just there's nothing that adds up with that story at all. I
mean, again, there's nobody from the car that the gentleman was in with
the ak stating that you know he misfired. You know, there's nothing.
There's nothing there grasping its straws. Right, Okay, so what else do
we have on deck? If I throw in a may I throw in a
quick quot note on the that idea, Oh please do Not A single witness,
once again, just like exactly, not a single witness supports that.
I would imagine if an eight point forty seven went off or next to you,
you'd hear it. You know it's going to be smoke. Well,
it's it's a civilian issue of the M sixteen, which is the A or
oh I'm sorry, I'm sorry. Yeah, But but either way, I
would assume that even if it is set into a single shot you know,
selection mode, that kind of thing would be kind of obvious to people.
Yeah, maybe some of the witnesses watching might have mentioned it. They might
have maybe maybe, But then again, you know again, like like she
brought up with the limo driver. I mean, you know, simply because
there wasn't any witnesses doesn't mean we can't believe it, because after you know,
exactly why let evidence get in the way. Yeah, there was only
a couple hundred people print at the time, so you know, nobody saw
it. But anyway, all right, so enough of the comic relief because
the Mortal Era has killed me for so many years, because I mean I've
had people swear up and down because you know, and Donahue, I don't
think was a bad guy or anything. It's just that, you know,
he might have been expert with firearms, but he did not understand the rest
of the equation, you know, And of course he is one of the
few guys who actually that's another point I forgot to make with the caller is
that Oswald shooting feet was duplicated by Donahue during the CBS thing in sixty eight,
So it did happen. But you know, the alleged Oswald shooting solution
is a possibility if you allow for x y Z, and the problem is
x y Z can't be proven. So there you go. But when they
gave him that moving target moving away from him in the same kind of weapon,
when the thing wasn't jamming or giving them problems by the way, you
know, Donahue was one of the few guys who could pull it off.
An interesting side note I'd like to make to the Carcano. Sure, Donahue,
I would imagine, unlike Oswald had verified practice, well an access to
ammunition exactly. I mean, it's just like you said at x y Z.
There's it's basically a through Z because there's so many factors working against Oswald
in the short amount of time that if he were to have been alone in
this plot, he would require he just the Commission messed up, and that
they didn't create a timeline and make sure they were able to attribute so much
to him in so little time. Well, they made a great point of
making certain parts of that timeline so rock solid that that if you destroy any
part of it, the whole thing collapses. So I got to give him
credit there. Yeah, they made it easy. Oh, yeah, but
the carcano. I'm sorry, I got as you know, start going,
I get off track. Uh, the carcano. What I think is interesting
is that there was another issue of that carcano that I'm looking into right now.
I just want to talk to a firearms expert, and it was a
marksman version that was supposedly five times more accurate and was made and tooled by
a marksman himself with the Marksman Marx. Not what Oswald had, but something
far better, same bullets, same ballistic evidence. M well, that is
a possibility. But I mean, if you again, if you go with
the Commission's you know, alleged timeline and where he got it from, he
was not getting the best weapon. Oh no, no, I don't think
it was Oswalt's. I just think that there could have been someone else there
with a carcano that was firing. Well oh yeah, well, because any
gunsmith could have taken one of those and made him fairly effective's that's a possibility
also, But Oswald was not a gunsmith, and nor was anybody he knew
at the time. No luck with that. But yeah, anyway, of
course, the crappy scope, you know, the unlikelihood of the position,
the least side of it. Yeah, exactly, So do we want to
continue on the photographs or what Let's go back to Trician Zach Trician Zach.
Okay, you know what, I didn't get enough time to talk through things
with you guys earlier. So what else did you have on your agenda that
we didn't touch on so far here? Well, maybe we could touch down
on Marina with the bull pitcher. Uh, this is more Zach's expertise than
myself. Well, yeah, I mean, if there's some pictures that were
evidently taken of Oswald then Marina when they were in Russia, and they're evidently
appears to be a baby doll instead of a real baby, and that was
really if anybody had any facts on that or they're familiar with that, I
gotta be honest, I'm at a loss for the baby doll thing. Yeah,
I haven't heard of that before. Yeah, it's kind of an interesting
one, but it's shortly after when June
was born, and the pictures are very strange. Again, we'll post them
so people can take a look at them and give us their opinions. I
guess a good place that we could start as a backyard photo. I mean,
we haven't touched base on that one at all yet. Oh well,
this is an excellent one. Let me just give a point of reference to
the listener. Of course. This is the photograph which was published on the
cover of Time Light or on Life magazine's cover, and was also circulated through
various publications over the years and has been continuously utilized as an iconic photograph of
Oswald. This is the photograph that we touched on last episode when when a
completely different version of the photograph was actually entered into evidence in the nineteen seventies
by Roscoe White's widow, you know, to the HSCA, and we talked
about how that happened. And of course there's been a whole lot of allegations
made about this photograph over the years that you know, the head was you
know, most famously in the JFK film, the head was placed on the
body, the gun was drawn in. The weird thing is he is holding
two communist newspapers that make no sense for him to be holding. The shadows
are in the wrong direction, all this different stuff, and this is the
iconic photo again of him holding Depending on which version you've seen holding the rifle
and the newspapers or the photograph with him with the gun on his side and
holding the rifle, something like this. But it was a series of photographs
taken at their Neely Street address, you know, previous to the assassination that
was that was utilized pretty much in the public's mind to to place the weapons
in Oswald's hand, not only the one that shot Kennedy allegedly, but the
one that killed Tippett. So go ahead, guys, I'll let you add
it first. Ladies first, as ever, I think they're one of the
interesting thing. Allry buddy, sure, okay, well, thank you.
I am being very good. I hope you realize I've tried not to talk
too much. You're you're doing a good job. What I can contribute to
this is I have an article that on Science Daily dot com that I think
other people might want to take a look at. I don't think it's definitive,
but I think that it's a very good reference point, and it discusses
Hanny Fred who's a computer scientist, and he and the team took apart the
photographs using modern technology, and they came to the conclusion that they were not
faked. That they were legitimate, So take that as you will. I'm
not an expert, but I do refer to experts when they make their conclusions,
and if the conclusion seem reasonable, and go with the evidence. Unless
I see things to contradict what they say, there's no reason to so Church
and or Zac, I think they're One of the interesting things to mention about
the backyard photos is, of course, the account is that Marina took them,
and when she is called upon in her testimony to you know, discuss
that she is quite confused about the camera that she used, and she said
that it was a camera that she held up to her eye, when in
fact the Imperial reflex camera you hold down at your chest and look down through
a mirror at it. And she was leaving clear about the color of the
camera that she is. It's really mysterious about what, you know, she
might have been thinking that she was, you know, using to take that
picture. I would agree that someone else might have taken it. I just
don't think that there's a real substantial basis for saying that it was altered,
as much as a lot of people like to say. I think a lot
of people, unfortunately, and I'm sure, I'll hear about this, But
like some people did with executive action, some people saw that scene in JFK
and it happened. Well, that's one problem. The other problem is,
see Marina Oswald is a who is a slippery a slope if there ever was
one, because her testimony continuously changes about what the nature of those photographs was,
how she took them on and on. Now, part of that I
would attribute to the fact that there was a problem with her translation at certain
points in her testimony, so the contradictions may not have been all her ound
fault. And I know that sounds really weird somebody like me trying to defend
Marina Oswald for God's sake, But eh, look credit where credits do,
and possibilities have to be allowed here now moving on, though there was other
testimony where she gave where you know, it's completely inconsistent with the with the
existing photographs, you know, most notably of course, like you were saying
with the Imperial Reflex, you had to have looked down on it, not
through it up to your eye. Okay, So I've added to a caller
in Hey, Dylan, you with us? Yep, I think so it's
it's working. Have you been listening? Uh my computer had a had a
glitch. I just got in. Oh okay, I was just listening.
Uh oh, I was just listening when you added man. So I'll come
in with the question when something comes up. Well, no problem. Anybody
who listens to my show remembers Dylan is the is the host of The Truth
Speaks, which is an independent radio show whi's on various networks. The sixteen
year old young man who occasionally we have fun with discussing what goes on in
his history classes. Okay, we have stories next time. Oh boy,
I can't wait. You know what. For one of these episodes, I
want you to bring up JFK and your history class if you get a chance,
because I want to hear the absolute insanity that comes out of your classmates.
Okay, So if I do, I'll get it on video for you.
Oh please do hang back though, and whenever you're ready to ask a
question, you know, go ahead and jump in. Right now, we're
talking about the backyard photographs and the inconsistencies in what exists, but it does
seem as though they're legitimate photographs despite all of the attempts to conjure different things
out of it. As for what that means or what that has to actually
do with the assassination, in my opinion, virtually nothing. Okay, it
was just utilize to convict Oswald in the public's mind as far as I'm concerned,
Yeah, no, I would agree with that. I think that.
Okay, let's say we can use both fringe ideas. The people who think
that Oswald is automatically guilty are going to say the proof that it is guilt
and it's not. The people who say that he's innocent are going to say
it's altered and it's likely not. I find that most of the things are
always in the middle. It's in the gray, it's not in the black
or the white area. So these photographs could have been made to later implicate
him by someone. Someone might have taken them. Perhaps Morena was intimidated,
though Morena doesn't strike me as the sort of woman who gets intimidated easily.
And thus, yes, some alteration could have occurred in the manner of how
they were created, but physically, I don't think there's any real proof of
alteration, and like you said, it wouldn't have been It might have gotten
them in the public eye, but that didn't really do anything for them in
court. It could have not really helped the cover up of their case.
Well, right, and I'll tell you something else about Marina. I would
say, you know, it depends on which incarnation you're looking at of Marina.
If you look at Marina in the nineteen sixties, I think she was
definitely easily intimidated and everything else. You look at Marina in the nineteen seventies,
maybe not so much. But as time has gone on, Yeah,
I would agree with that that nowadays, if she were to make a statement,
you know, despite the fact that Nigel Turner got her on film,
I'm gonna say that, you know. Yeah, I think if there was
something to be told there, I think she would have an opportunity to say
it now when people are approaching her, although she has kind of clammed up
regarding the research community. And I don't blame her, to be honest with
you, No, after Baker, I wouldn't want to talk to any of
us, right, So, Zach and Trish, I'm kind of taking a
left turn with it. I've always been choiced to the clothes he was wearing
where they go. I mean, they've never turned up in any inventory.
They never put into the warrant commission. The whole black get up outfit.
I just that's always kind of struck me as odd, like where did those
clothes go? So, And another point I'd like to make is I find
it interesting with trying to analyze the pictures. And of course Zach can touch
base on this a little bit more than myself. But you know, without
the negatives, it's really hard to say because you know, you don't have
the original prints, the original negatives to really compare it to. And again
I'll let Zach kind of take over from there because he's the expert in this
area. Yeah, that is really important. I mean it's it's really easy
to alter a print, but very difficult to alter the negative. Well,
I've seen work done where negatives can be altered and it's a matter of creating
a new negative and all that kind of stuff. I mean from the chemical
processes that are in existence at the top. Well that's yeah, well that's
true. But then you could also link that back directly to a camera with
the spocket holes and such and the mechanism, so you could figure out,
you know, did it come from that camera and was it taken with that
camera, all right, and I would I would love to see an analysis
of that, that's for sure. I would imagine too that based on I
mean, Zach is the expert, and you definitely have a bigger background in
photography as you know. I'm a file, that's ironic, not that kind
of a files, I mean a real primary document files anyway, not James
files, never files, but actual files. But that's tangible, useful evidence,
right. But I would agree that, yeah, you're both both of
your assertions are correct. That they might not. They likely didn't have the
technology at the time to do it, so if it was done, it
had to have been done late once the proper technology. I'm not saying that
some of this stuff can't be altered. I'm just saying it couldn't have been
altered on the spot like some people think. That's why that you know,
everything's altered. Well, interesting enough, if you look at the Texas History
Pointal website, among the stuff that's held in the Dallas Police Department collection is
what appears to be the back end photo picture but with the figure cut out
of it, which implies that even evidently the Dallas Police Department or somebody was
trying to do their own recreations to see if the this could have been altered.
Well, right, that's a that's a Dallas Police officer who's actually in
the photograph. There, uh, that that they took and then they go
there's there's okay, yeah, that's right. Yeah, So they were evidently
trying to determine that. Well why they cut it out is unclear, but
it looks like they were trying to figure out what possibly could have been done
here, and you know they must have questions themselves about it, right,
right, So I've also you joined Barry Princeton to the call. Barry,
you got any questions or assertions you want to add to the discussion. Actually,
Chuck, I just joined in here about ten to fifteen minutes ago,
so I'm a little bit behind on what's been talked about, but I'll listen
in for a while and I'm sure i'll make a comment where the show's over.
Okay, great, But by the way, I say, yeah,
I didn't say it before, but welcome Barry, welcome Dylan. Right,
thank you guys much. And you know what, I still can take another
call if somebody wants to use the line at seven one eight seven seven eight
two nine six, which I did put out in the post, but if
you're listening seven one eight seven one seven eight two nine six. And uh,
I'm kind of disappointed that one of those guys on Facebook who came at
me real quick and then kind of backed off a little bit, it didn't
call in. I'd really like it if you did. Of course, I'll
ask everybody else to mute up and I'll handle you. But go right ahead
and join into the conversation if you like. I will answer any call that
is not blocked. Okay, thank you. So the backyard photographs, again
in my estimation, are not really part of the case. They are a
serious waste of time because they were used as nothing more than a public relations
kind of tool to convict Oswald in the public mind. Now getting away from
that, there are still so many other conspiracy myths out there that are seemingly
friendly to somebody like myself that I just am so sick of discussing. I
wonder, Zach and Trish, do you got any other ones that they're still
like eating at you at the moment or what? Yeah, you know,
we were talking earlier about how some of the photographs. I mentioned that autopsy
photographs, X rays and photographs are missing and altered. And there's some cases
there's some real blatant alterations, you know, such as the Dillard photo where
you know it shows the upper floors of the Texas Corebook Depository. One of
the you know, early prints of it had one of the windows torn out
of it. And then evidently the photograph that they found amongst Oswald's possessions of
the Walker residents with the car in the license plate, the license plate was
clear, was torn out right of the photograph. I mean, they had
to go so far as to call General Walker on the stand and he claimed
it was Charles Clear whether those associates they stopped the proceedings and called Clear and
he admitted it was his car. But I mean, as far as I
know, they've never been able to determine exactly his car that was. But
the question is why was that done? I mean, look at all blatant
these some of these alter it even it's beyond alterations, it's it's destruction.
But you know, and a quick commentary on the Walker shooting event, which
they you know, have tried to utilize the show that Oswald had been,
you know, extremely violent, looking to assassinate anybody to make a name for
himself. You know, let's remember this too. You know, General Walker
literally dug a bullet out of his own wall after that near miss on it,
that that attempt on his life, literally dug the bullet out of the
wall. Was familiar with firearms and ammunition and stated pretty clearly that that wouldn't
have matched up to the man liquor Carkano based on his description. Okay,
if I can go to another Walker exhibit, it's not well, it's part
of a myth in my opinion, because I think the whole episode is a
myth. But the Walker letter, the Walker letter is used and was used
as some sort of definitive proof to implicate that Oswald had planned this and Morena
had read it. But the problem is is that none of their fingerprints are
on the letter. There's only unidentified fingerprints on the letter. The letter has
no one's name on it. The letter doesn't mention Walker, the letter doesn't
mention anything specific. He could have wrote the letter five years ago, and
it doesn't make a bit of difference because if you can't connect it directly to
it, there's no fingerprints, and you have one person who looked at it
and said, it looks like Oswald's handwriting. That's not definitive, that doesn't
match, you know. Then you go into the bullet, which was mutilated.
They couldn't necessarily match it. They thought even Fraser wasn't totally sure.
He couldn't make a definitive match. The whole thing falls apart when you really
look at the evidence that they tried to base it upon. Yeah, that's
a good point. I mean, there really isn't any definitive evidence. If
you read the text of it, it doesn't say Walker, it doesn't stay
anything. It just says, you know, basically, in case I get
in trouble, do this. I mean, it makes it sound like he's
up to something, but you don't really know what. Well. To me,
it's almost like a veneer again, it's like his supposed communist venier.
You know. Morena in the Nixon episode is another myth, you know.
I mean, even Red Lake, a lot of people on the official Commission
didn't believe her. That's right. And if I recall, I believe that
letter wasn't found immediately. It was found in her cookbook later on. If
I recall Ruth Payne accidentally gave it to the DPD right sixth night, hold
on to second six five, Hold on a second six five oh area code.
You're on the air. Can I just listen on the air? Uh?
Sure? If you mute up, you know, if you can mute
your talking portion of your phone, that's cool. You can just listen.
Sure, right, Okay, thanks, Okay, sorry about that, guys.
I just wanted to give the caller a chance, but he wants to
just listen, so that's cool too. So Barrier, Dylan, you got
anything you want to ask or add in. I mean, you got a
panel of four of us who've actually done research on the case, so you
know, I don't know if you guys have even gone into it. Yeah,
what was the A lot of people go and create the umbrella man theory
around as if that's the definitive answer. What do you think his role was?
Oh? Wow, umbrella man? Who wants to that one? First?
Oh? Me? Okay, Well, doing I think that umbrella man
is interesting? Uh, there's a lot of facets to it. I don't
personally think that he has any part. He don't. I'm sorry, can
you hear me? Yeah? Yeah, I just wanted to say that I
don't think Umbrella Man was part of any plot. I think that Umbrella Man
because of his first of all, the strangeness of the umbrella being present.
And I know a lot of people don't like to accept this, but Joe
Kennedy was a sympathizer and he did try to basically play Kate Hitler in the
Nazis when he was ambassador. So the umbrella was symbolically to him. Now,
whether Witt was there for that reason, If Witt in fact was the
Umbrella Man, you know, we can go into it. But I just
don't think. You know, a lot of people try to say it was
a signal. You don't need that. You can use earpieces, there's walkie
talkies, there's all sorts of ways to send a signal without using something so
obvious. Well, okay, but that that's that's fine, and I'll and
I'll take that to heart. But you know what, I'm gonna object a
little bit. I don't think that Witt was the guy. I think the
umbrella that they presented in that that public hearing was not the umbrella. I
think that also there is the possibility that you know, still visual cues are
useful to shooters. Okay, it's a possibility. You got a pure in
the mail of glossy laminated thing from the the White House. It's Obama's water
dogs. Then they ask you for money. Okay. The umbrella man thing,
like I said, it's just those things that I don't think is really
relevant. But if you were to try and look at it and say that
there was a possibility that he was signaling, I think that's a possibility.
But again, the evidence doesn't go anywhere after that. It's just one of
those possibilities. There's a million part Sorry, Chuck, I didn't mean to
interrupt, but I just wanted to say I believe that there was two umbrellament.
I believe there was another one that was up Houston near the corner of
I'm in Houston as well, but he was on the Let me think for
a second, let me get my bearings in the north side of Elm Street
up by that intersection again, and I believe I've seen one or two photos.
I'll have to dig them out again, but I'm pretty sure there was
two umbrellas well, right, But we're mostly talking about the one that's seen
near for that near the uh you know, near the sign. Okay,
that's close to the motorcade. On the Zubruder film you can see the umbrella.
But there are there's the possibility of many umbrellas on the on the motorcade
route. It was raining earlier that day, and God knows what possesses people
to open them. Possibly it was a direct protest, uh, you know,
regarding Chambers and all that and appeasement and Joe Kennedy and all that.
That's a good possibility. But then again, who knows. It's just one
of those things that really doesn't go anywhere in my estimation, right, you
know, so interesting anybody who tries to tell you that, you know,
a poisoned dart was fired or he's the shooter or anything like that is uh,
you know. I I say again, if somebody can show me some
proof that an alien was hanging from his toes, uh you know, from
a ship hovering over the motorcade. Uh, you know, please get me
the evidence. I'd love to see it. But it's just about as well,
well what about what about it? Well, what about a couple of
other mysterious and interesting characters that were right by him that one of them known
as a dark complexive man. And then another guy who seems to be holding
Milwaukee talkie to his ear. Yeah, this gets into more interesting things,
doesn't it. But it still doesn't wind up going very very far. Let's
just say that, yeah, you do have somebody who is in the loop
regarding radio communications that day, you have a conspirator. Okay, but unless
you know the rest of the circle there again, it could be nothing.
You know, we still don't have a definitive answer as to whether that was
certainly a walkie talkie or whatever else. I'll barely closed down. Yeah,
I don't know when though. Okay, so the thing is sorry that so
back to it. Umbrella man, I would say, at the end of
the day, really doesn't wind up going anywhere. You can go through the
photographs in Dealey Plaza though, and find a lot of really strange things,
that's for certain, and uh, and more than one umbrella on the motor
Kate route. I believe that some of them being a protest for Chambers uh,
you know, a Chamberlain. I mean I believe that, uh,
you know, Joe Kennedy's connection and all that. But at the same time
I could also believe that one of them might have been there to signal.
That's a possibility too. But lewis Witt being the uh, you know,
the umbrella Man per se, I don't buy. I think all that's possible.
I just once again agree with you that it doesn't go anywhere, right.
It leads to black holes where now they're making a movie out of Umbrella
Man, and it's just another one of these distractions from you know, a
lot of other things that we already have in hand. Yeah, and not
to say too that, but it doesn't I think also we shouldn't always attach
affarity to what could be. They could have been anybody there with they could
have had communications, maybe they were you know, military intelligence, maybe they
were there for some other reason. I just don't think that everyone who was
acting strangely, if we try to connect all of them, it's too many
people. Yeah. That that's the other problem is that when you start to
compile the strangeness that went on in Dealey Plaza, Uh, you got way
too many people involved in the conspiracy. And uh and and and of course
you got way too many shooters on the knoll, and you've got way too
many confessions and you get into their territory. Oh boy, and then you
got you know, twenty shots from eight different directions. Uh, you know,
small on is running around killing people there you how does that hold any
water? There were no uh, there was no evidence for it. I
thought, I thought the aliens. I thought the aliens did it? Guys?
What are you guys talking about? Exactly? And I wish more people
were like you. I want to give credit for dude. Dylan says,
well, where's the evidence? I know exactly. Please tell everybody that keep
saying that for the rest of your life, show me the evidence, thankfully,
man, you know. And and at your age, Dylan, like
I said before to you off the air, at your age, I was
just starting to figure this stuff out. And boy, that was a good
statement right there. That it took me a couple of years to start saying
to people, which is, okay, that's really interesting, but where's your
evidence? Yep. When I was Dylan's age, I had just seen JFKA
and that was the truth, closer closer to the truth than the Warren commissioned
but still no dice. Ah, yes, I know, good a good
movie though, good entertainment, oh, no, fascinating movie. And did
a did a bang up job of getting the ar RB established and congrats,
congratulations and also, you know, show me the evidence again, which some
of the stuff in that film there's absolute evidence for, uh, some of
it not so much. Even the things connected to the film, if people
look into them, they can see that unintentionally, some of the activities around
the film helped debunk some of these myths that are still going today, like
E. Howard Hunt. People keep saying Howard Hunt was involved and there is
no direct evidence of that. Hunt wasn't someone of key importance at that time.
That's the first one I saw. Yeah, okay, yeah, no,
No, the E Howard Hunt, Oh, the heart Hunt. Yeah,
that's the first one I heard of. And then it was the the
driver yep mm hmm. And then and then you got exposed to miss Baker,
didn't you? Yes? Through uh now, first it was either then
it was Baker. Oh right, that's right. I had already warned you
didn't I? Yeah, you did? Was was she everything you expected?
I did her? I meant I met some of her psycho supporters. Now
have a list if you want to, Tuck and tell you about it later,
Chuck told me about it. You just didn't send it to me.
Oh, I'm sorry, I will send it to you. I apologize.
I don't know who I ended up interviewing one of them without realizing it.
That's always an interesting surprise, isn't this. Yeah, yeah, it's it's
really strange and and and sometimes it's intelligent people who wind up saying to me,
you know, oh, you're into the JFK thing. You should have
on you know Oswalt's girlfriend, And I go, oh, yeah, well,
we don't know I Well's girlfriend's name, because it would have been when
he was younger, not any time when you, as Baker touched about Well.
Look, I I know the name of one of the girlfriends you know
before Marina. Oh, you're in Russia. There's a couple Ella German for
one, the first woman he asked to marry him in Russia. Thank you.
Fancy that her name appears in official documents. I can't believe it.
Oh, it certainly does. He asked her to marry him, she turned
him down, and he was depressed and got drunk on New Year's Eve.
Anyway, Yeah, I remember your repulsed sigh when I mentioned her. Oh
yeah, because he Oh, anyway, and then the limo driver again,
because that was in our first conversations. I went, you're kidding me,
right, Oh nay, I learned. I know you have, and I
appreciate that, and I want you to continue learning and please teach me some
uh barry, you got anything you want to add? Yet not really,
I'm not like it said. You know, I've studied JFK for lots of
time in my life, and luck of the love the documentaries on it.
I'm no experts, but anybody that looks at it, I mean, there's
so many holes in the government story. It's just like anything else, the
government of your telligence over bowls. I've never seen a government story that doesn't
have vuls It goes along with the agenda. I guess, yeah, isn't
that fascinating? And modern modern American history for certain and probably globally, uh
modern American history, you can't find an official story that doesn't seem to have
some holes in it. I can't even find one that holds water, seriod.
Go ahead, do you mind if I share It's it's a very soft
vulgar word, but it is one of the chapters in my book. Okay,
so may I use one soft soft, vulgar word. Go right ahead.
It's a quote from Richard Nixon, and I think that it applies to
every president, largely before and after him, And it applies to what we
were just discussing about the government's case. Richard Nixon said, I don't give
a shit about the law. He said that in the Watergate tapes, among
many other things. Yeah, so I think that coins exactly their feelings about
what they will and will not do and what they will and will not tell
us. Now that that's absolutely true, and and and Nixon's upset about the
fact that he was, you know, being targeted for doing stuff that other
people had done and everything else. I think he was completely right. He
looked like an angel compared to what's going on in Washington today. Though you
got it, he was a whole lot less bought and paid for than what
we got now to you that well he was. He was just at the
bottom end of the agenda. The agenda was there, but just wasn't at
the point they wanted to bring it in with there, right, go well,
right, he wasn't really one of them because he had actually come from
a poor background and all that. So, I mean that's that's the chuck
Bill Clinton came from a four back to and he's more bought and paid for
than any of them. Excellent point, Dylan. I listen, I don't
care which side of the island is anymore. They're both. They're both the
same damn thing. That's it. Yeah, so this reality we cannot escape.
Okay, we've got let's see, now, we've got about ten minutes
left. So I'm wondering if there's anything that we didn't cover that we should
get on before we run out of time for this episode and we're gonna have
to do this again. You know that, guys, right, Yeah,
hopefully I'll be able to join you for the full show next time. I
agree. If you want, Dylan and dig up, dig up some more
stuff that has misled you regarding the JFK case and bring it on and we'll
we'll either dissect it or vivisect it, depending on how much life it actually
has. Okay, sorry, Zach and Trish. Where where should we go
with these last few minutes? Well? I think we covered a lot of
interesting stuff tonight. I know, you know, we went into a lot
of the photographic stuff, and I think it's just important you know, I
stated last time, it's important to you know, the old saying is the
camera never lies, and that's true to a point, but you also have
to take everything with the grain of salt that you're looking at, and you
can't try to go about trying to identify mysterious shadows. And you know,
some of the things that one of the things I was looking at today was
they claim that some researchers that not only was George Bush senior there, but
now they're trying to say that George W. Bush was in Daly Plaza And
I mean, goodness, where does it endy you can find where are you
chasing shadows at a certain point, Just it's important to try to be responsible
with your research. Yeah, he was about seventeen years old at the time,
I believe. Yeah, ye, not old enough to be part of
any Heinus plot though. Yeah, because apparently you know, you know,
I'm sorry to go ahead. Oh yeah, that picture that they're siting is
George W. Bush has a kid in a varsity sweater like hanging outside there,
and you know it's that he was pretty darn young, like doing the
same. Yeah, because as you said, the last episode, while he's
running a congressional campaign. He's going to bring the sharp son with him to
take down the president. What that's ridiculous. Neither of his sons are very
sharp, well, Sharper, Yeah, I was gonna say Jeb is definitely
the uh, the alpha dog in that particular uh uh set of puppies.
But yeah, yeah, he's gonna he's gonna bring the the the A team
with him and uh. Of course, you know, avoid all sorts of
other detection until many, many years later when somebody will draw that conclusion that
he was present that day, uh from a photograph. Right, That's that's
a fush Field trip theory. I I think it is that that would be
a good way to put it, the Bushfield trip. I like that.
There are a lot of things I'd love to blame W for, but yeah,
I don't think it's fair to even say he was part of that.
He wasn't old enough, He probably isn't smart enough to orchestrate that. Honestly,
Well, I'll put it to you this way. If W was intimately
U involved in the in the assassination of John F. Kennedy, I think
we would have blown apart this case long ago. We would have busted him
long ago. He wouldn't have time to uh to have his uh you know,
alcohol and uh and other drug fueled incidents in his life, and he
would have and he probably would have told us, I will I will go
with that, Dylan, that that that works perfect in one of his drunken
fits. He probably would have mentioned it. Let us slept, certainly.
So six minutes left, Carmine, what do you want to tag onto the
end of this? Do you mind if I do a plug? Go right
ahead. I would like to let everyone know to please if you get a
chance, stop by the Neneapolis Media Group Facebook page. It is Facebook dot
com slash neepe MG with a capital N fornith a capital MG at the end.
Or you can see t pot dot com t p a a k dot
com. You can see my work there. You can see trician Zach's work
there. You can also see please go to the recommended part of teapot dot
com, or you can go to deblunk blog their site. You can go
to Chuck site. You can also see Rob Clark the Lone Gunman podcast.
It's also recommended there. So you can find pretty much everybody that I personally
think is doing great contributions to the community. Yes, absolutely definitely, and
I support all that, not just because I'm part of it, but because
I actually support what's going on. And Rob Clark another guy who I wish
he had been able to make it for this show, but he was unavailable,
the host of the Loan Gunman podcast US who has been on this show
before. And yes, I recommend that you definitely listen to him. Him
and I don't necessarily agree on everything either, but you know, there's a
whole lot of common ground here. Yep. And I don't know. You
know, if you guys want to add in either Barrier Dylan here at the
end, go right ahead. Nope, No, I'll plug my show for
tomorrow real quick, because it's kind of an interesting show, guys. Got
We're talking static electric motors tomorrow. Some of the discoveries made lately will just
absolutely asound you. I have a kandel a four gentlemen joining me tomorrow and
in flitting Roger Lundry is going to be sitting in on this one because he
knows electronic very well, and three other free energy indenters. We're going to
talk about the Latin the giant steps forward in static electric electric motives. So
that's the conversation. I'm TREATDM on Shaking week Radio. Ah, is Larry
Woods going to be on? Larry Woods has been on the show like three
four times and an excellent, excellent, brilliant human being. I cool.
I gotta get Larry back on this show. And I want to thank everybody
before I forget and before that horrendously loud bumper kicks in. I want to
thank everybody for listening to the Ocelli Effect tonight. I'm sure that we'll have
some sort of closing thought here, but I say this to you about all
this evidence and all of the fictions which are being circulated out there. Uh,
here's the reality. I challenge you to examine your own beliefs regarding any
conspiracy theory, whether it is the conspiracy of one as it was once termed
regarding Lee Harvey Oswald, or it was the multiple and various conspiracies which have
littered this case and everything else in the world. Examine them for yourself.
See what makes sense in their context, See what actually has verifiable proof,
See what it is that you can actually scientifically recreate when it comes to plausible
scenarios. These are things that you do when you're in the search for the
truth. And I advise, no matter what truth you're searching for, this
is what you do. So again, guys, last two minutes, and
I want to thank first of all, Carmine Sabastano from Neneapolis Media Group for
being on with me tonight. Also Trish Trish Fleming who is temporarily named Fleming.
I think she may change her name soon because of course she's now engaged
to Zach Jendro. Did I get that right? So I want to thank
you. They do the Deep blog blog over there, and excellent work over
there. I definitely support all these guys. I love Barry Prince who is
the host of the Big Puzzle with Barry Prince, and of course Dylan Wade
who is the host of The Truth Speaks. And the callers who decided to
join in, uh, the one guy I didn't quite understand the other one
with the James Files thing. I hope we've answered some questions for you and
for anybody else who thinks that that's a plausible scenario. Anyway, Thanks guys,
I really appreciate it. And I don't know if you want to just
you know, throw it Thanks very much, Chuck. We appreciate it,
and there will be a part of this. There will be, and we
could sing the eyes of Texas are upon you. But how did God say
the queen that one? For a while, and listen, everybody stays do
it for Jaded? A couple of these people might stay on with me,
Carline, I think is going to stay on with me for Jaded. And
you never know what the hell happens when Kim takes the mic, so be
prepared. Was that was that a good enough talk up for your show on
beautiful beautiful? Okay, don't you guys hurt her because I only just swung
the mic over away. But anyway, thanks again for listening, and if
you're catching this further on downstream, or if you decided to pick it up
on your fondal slab of choice and user applicable application, it is all appreciated
and you can always go to ucy dot tv slash coe. Like I said,
YouTube MP three downloads. There's donate buttons both for the network and for
myself on that page, and any support in any which way is appreciated of
this work, and I thank everybody who decided to listen, so Guys,
what else can you say? You want to sing a song, we can
do it. Thanks again Check for having us the US Adstatsu Rusher and the
Gnjus dot Ja Rusher and has a dun Chasta das Don chat Chin must try,
dast Jack Down, Dunstan sat Side and the Sad Times in the Nasa sta