And it hits me, Oh my gosh, this is that triangle. You
know, there's an explanation for everything that occurred in the Randalchampars. It doesn't
involve aliens at all. It was completely silent. It comes right over our
heads. It's so gothic, fue social really standing in the cleary. He
turned over to my father and held his hand, and he looked in his
eyes and said, we're not alone. Welcome to podcast UFO for our live
show. We're live every Wednesday at eight pm Eastern Standard Time on podcastufo dot
com. During the show, feel free to participate live in our chat room,
and don't forget to like us on our very active Facebook page. Hello,
and welcome to the show. I'm Martin will As your host, and
our guest for this evening is Butch Wikowski, and we're going to be talking
about UFOs in Pennsylvania, and in our two we're actually going to be talking
about a very interesting subject, human mutilations. So that's going to go a
little bit off topic, sort of. We don't know if it's off topic
or not. And I'll be telling you a little bit more about Butch right
before we introduce him and I want to thank all the listeners that support the
show, and if you can't support the show and still want to listen free,
you can always listen on podcastufo dot com every Wednesday night at eight to
ten pm Eastern Standard Time, or on the Dark Matter Digital Network that's Thursdays
at ten to midnight. I want to tell everybody that I am completely bald,
and if you don't believe me, just go to podcastufo dot com.
You'll see right there a picture of myself shaved, and you know what,
it's cold. Even though it's warm, I have a kind of a cold
head, and you know, I might, I might keep the look.
I think it actually looks pretty good. But I'm proud to say that because
of all my friends and all the people that listen to the show and some
family members, we have exceeded the goal of one thousand dollars and it's still
growing. People can still donate. They keep it open. For a while.
We had one listener in particular that really stepped up to the plate,
and I'm going to mention his name, Alan Sanderson, Thanks so much,
and a number of listeners. There's another one, Reginald. I hope I
can say Reggie. He pitched in really as well. And it doesn't matter
small donations, big donations. It's all been very nicely received. They're very
excited over there at the it's called one Mission buzzoff dot com dot org.
They're extremely excited because I exceeded my goal and everyone's real happy. I'm real
happy and I want to thank everyone that helped out in that. And let's
see, Alejandro, how are you doing? I am good. How are
you doing great? And you know it's good to use your Skype sounds perfect
tonight. The last couple of weeks we had trouble and somehow it's worked itself
out. Glad to have you back. Yeah, it was changes with the
wireless internet here at my work, and we finally got that worked out.
And it's a good thing. It's good to be talking to you on Skype
again. Yeah. Hey, do we have anything happening? I know that
it's been kind of quiet, which is good in some ways but bad in
another way. I like when things are active. Anything. We don't have
anything, all right, Well, let's go. I'm just kidding. We've
always got something, So I guess the first thing I'd like to talk to
you about I don't think we talked about this on your show, and my
memory is too terrible to remember. Did we talk about that Ham radio case.
It's not boy. I'll tell you what. If I'm forgetting it and
the listener remembers it, I'll be in big trouble. But I don't remember
anything. Yeah. So this is a neat case where Pat Daniels is name.
He I guess has his own podcast on paranormal topics and such, but
he listens. He's a Ham radio enthusiast, and he was listening to his
Ham radio one evening and he heard he was listening to transmissions between airliners and
a control tower, and he heard this plane report a UFO sighting, which
is kind of exciting. Here's a quote from the website UFO's Northwest, which
helped with the investigation about what he says he heard. He says a pilot
reported seeing an extremely large, bright object that he estimated a mile wide to
his right. The air traffic controller told him that he was looking in the
direction of nephi Utah. Apparently, the air traffic controller told the pilot that
the object was not detected on radar. The object appeared to keep paced with
the aircraft. So he was excited that's what he's listening for, but unfortunately
he didn't record it. He did go to Utah move On Erica Luke's was
the director at the time, and they did an investigation. They went and
listened to the archives of these these aircraft and they did find some archives for
and figure out what flight it was. They found out it was an American
Airlines flight from San Francisco to I think it was something like Pennsylvania, Philadelphia,
Pennsylvania, and then they put in a FOYA requests. They also enlisted
the help of William Puckett of UFO's Northwest. William Puckett has a was a
meteorologist for a while, worked for the EPA for many years, and he's
worked in our radar and so he's helped out with many radar UFO cases.
So they put in a FOYA to the FAA to get more information and they
got they hit the mother loads. Six weeks later, they got audio tapes,
tower logs and some radar data that so the audio did confirm that there
was a report. So in the audio which is posted on our site and
on the UFO's Northwest, you can hear the conversation, and the pilot does
say that. He asked, you wouldn't happen to know what this bright orange
square we're flying over is, would you? The tower said no, I'm
not sure. Is it on your right side? And the pilot says,
it's actually directly off our nose right now, it's below us. What town
are we next to you? And they said you're near Nephi, Utah And
the pilot said, okay, cool, Now I'll see what I can go
find, thank you. So that's the extent of the conversation. So unfortunately,
the pilot doesn't mention this object, you know, following them, or
being a mile wide, or even being in the air, so it gives
the impression it could possibly be something on the ground. However, the researchers
are pretty sure that this audio was edited so parts of it were removed so
they don't feel they have the full audio. And then they did William Puckett
did some look at the radar data and he did find off to the right
of the object, just south of Nephi, actually just above the highway there,
Highway fifteen. He found some unknown returns, so it wasn't He also
talks about how these returns were very erratic, so kind of strange, like
the object perhaps was tumbling or moving strangely. So a great case, a
great research to try to confirm that something did happen. Mark d' antonio Mufon
took a look at the case and he argues that, you know, unfortunately
the official story all we have is someone talking about something below the plane.
So there's a couple of possibilities. It could be a fire, controlled fire
on the ground, which would explain what they saw, and the radar returns
the smoke would be the radar returns. However, investigators have retorted and said,
well, that's not the case because we didn't see that on Doppler,
and this isn't an area where they can do controlled burns. Another researcher suggested
it was perhaps a nearby power plant, but Lukes and Pucketts say, well,
I think these pilots, having flown in this area many times, would
have known of the nuclear power plants, so wouldn't have mistaken that for something
strange. And they're still trying to get more audio and a witness, perhaps
maybe even a pilot, so they can confirm that the pilot did say,
you know, it was a mile wide and this was something in the air,
because that's a big key. And right now all we have is Daniel's
word to go on on those aspects well now, and why would he even
bother to pursue it if it wasn't something like that? Really, and this
orange thing on the ground may not have anything at all to do with what
he had said, possibly earlier about the mile wide thing. It's possible although
it wasn't orange or bright orange square, he was explaining as something that was
a mile wide according to Daniels in what he had heard. In fact,
that's the only key between what Daniels reportedly heard and what is in the audio,
which appears to confirm Daniels what he had heard on transmission. So that
confirms that he heard something. You know. Can we be certain that Daniels
isn't mistaken somehow in his memory? We can't say for sure. And you
know, Daniels, I've heard from multiple sources as a trustworthy person. However,
you know, in order for this case to really have some bones,
to really have more to it will need some more official verification that these pilots
did feel that they were observing something peculiar that was in the air. Yeah,
yeah, that's that's a pretty good one. Yeah, it's a cool
case. I really like it. I really like the work that was done
to confirm and uh and it's surprising that the fa got back so quickly with
the Foyer request. Now, would you think that it's possible this pilot would
report this to Nightcap? Possible, but you know, it's just a minority
of sightings that are reported. If it was reported, I think that Richard
Haynes and the other the guys that and from what I understand, one of
the people who work with our cap, ted Rowe, I think is helping
out or they've actually consulted with him on this case. So and they haven't
reported having received any reports on this. So it sounds like the pilot just
kind of was asking, you know, do you know what this is?
They said no. But there's an interesting, you know thing, is that
the raid the tower said is this thing off to your right? And some
people ask why did the tower say that? It almost implies that the tower
was referring to some radar hits or something that they saw on radar, because
you know, how did he know that whatever this was was to the right.
That's a real good point, And I'd never heard of smoke causing any
radar hits before, but I guess it makes sense if it's dense enough.
Mm hmm. Yeah, oh yeah, smoke can definitely do that. I
guess their argument though, is that smoke would also repair on Doppler, and
they did check their Doppler radar and they didn't see that. But there's no
argument that smoke could cause radar hits so among the experts. So I guess
that's that still a possibility. But Mark is just saying that this is just
a possibility he's exploring. But they'll definitely need on that end to prove if
that was the case. They'll need more evidence to that also, so for
instance, some recording of a controlled burn in the area or something like that.
You know. Another thing is a lot of the UFO sightings that you
hear about have create no hits on radar at all, and that happens quite
often actually, which is another mystery within itself. You know. Maybe,
of course, if they can get here from wherever they're getting here from,
they can probably be as stealth as they want to be. Probably, Yeah,
So what else has happened, So what else. This is a story
that Roger Marsh just sent in and posted today of an event that took place
in twenty fourteen September twelfth, twenty fourteen. Now it's an old case.
We wrote about it on September fifteenth of twenty fourteen at Open Minds that TV.
But it is brought up again and they finally kind of have at least
closed it. It's not completely closed, but they've just decided to market as
an unknown. This is a citing that actually the story is UFO over Las
Vegas described as moving into a mist, and this witness recorded this video of
this bright object that has like a missed below it. Some people described it
as a beam of light that was headed towards the ground. However, many
experts feel that this video, which is pretty interesting, is most likely a
rocket. And if you you know, we know more lately since we had
those those really big sightings in California fairly recently with the rockets making these extraordinary,
you know, huge brightly lit orbs in the sky, and this looks
somewhat similar to that, and it was seen across several states when it happened,
and it made a lot of news. However, what's interesting, and
this is noted in the Moufon investigation very well by the researcher, is that
the investigator on this case is that there was never any conclusion. So there
were lots of ideas about what it might have been, and the news pursued
these and such as Vandenberg, a rocket from Vandenburg, a rocket from a
test rocket, from a submarine off the coast of California, all of these
different ideas. However, they couldn't find those to be the case. They
talked to Van den Berg, they talked to the Navy, and they said,
nope, not ours, not ours, So they it was never found
what it might be. In fact, when I looked at our story,
James Oberg, who's a space journalist and a historian, he writes a lot
for NBC, and I think mostly for NBC but also others, Space dot
Com and stuff like that, he actually often looks at our stories and he
said that it looked like a pretty standard rocket launch. However, the usual
suspects seemed to have alibis this time, he said, so we still don't
know, you know, who it was, where this rocket came from.
So it's still a mystery that is really strange. You would think that it
would, you know, come right up who it was? Yeah, I
mean it's off the coast of California, for God's sakes. I mean,
no one can like launch a rocket without having any Oh I don't want to
say, you know, a record of it, but no one can just
plane launch a rocket without anyone knowing about it. Yeah, unless it's the
enemy. Yeah. I have a feeling that you know, if you and
I, you know, went to San Diego, let's say, and rented
a boat and you know, launched a rocket off of a mile off the
coast or something, Uh, it would get noticed and they'd figure out it
was us, and we'd probably get in a little bit of trouble. I
know. But you know, this is a type of trouble I would like
to get in. So when are we doing it? Would you? Yeah?
Because now I have a shaved head and I'm criminal Like exactly right,
you're one of those kind of you're you're a bad dude now You're like right,
But yeah, so this is really weird. I mean it could have
been a top secret test, you know, and so it's kind of they're
they're an unacknowledged test, but a test where the populace could see it.
It's a big mystery. I think it's so strange. It's really weird.
Now did you may have said this and I may have just missed it.
Where are there is there film clips of this? Oh? There's there are
videos and pictures of this, in particular Rogers writing about one video that move
On received and they posted it on YouTube and it's in our story. But
I also put a link to our story on it from twenty fourteen, and
Jason McClellan had written that story and he has some video and other links to
some other videos that were captured of this object in September twenty fourteen. Excellent.
Well, hey, thanks so much man. It's always fun to have
you on the show. Hey, it's my pleasure, buddy. Congratulations on
you know, on having no hair match well matching your goal. You probably
actually you probably raise about a dollar per strand of hair because you really didn't
have that many. You know what, when I saw when I saw what
was left, all the gray hair on the floor, it really made me
I felt young again. Really, yeah, I feel younger now. Well
that's good, Viria. Yeah, wow, you sound like it when you
say it. Yeah, yeah, I got a little pep in my step.
Yeah. Nice. Just don't go commit it in crimes. I'll try
not to buy a Harley or something. Yeah, well the Harley's, yeah,
it's on layaway. But yeah, I don't know. I'll think about
that. But anyway, thanks so much. All right, no problem,
We'll be talking to you next week. Talk to you soon, buddy.
All right, everyone, So a little bit about our guest. Butch has
been an independent researcher since nineteen eighty nine, when he, along with four
other people, witnessed the UFO of unbelievable size quietly hovering above a mountain in
Tucson, Arizona. And it was totally silent. And that's one of the
things that baffled me the most about my own sighting is that it was silent.
It was burnt copper and color, and at least three football fields in
length. While Butch began his own investigation into the UFO phenomena on that very
day, he joined Muffon in two thousand and seven, and he was able
to dig deeper into the past and existing cases and pursue even more on site
investigations. But his research was still lacking something and it wasn't getting to the
crucial answers that he was seeking. It was this time to go about his
work in a different manner, and after almost a year of serious reflection and
consideration, Butch started UFO Research Center of Pennsylvania in two thousand and nine,
and he brought together some of the best like minded and longtime researchers he could
find. We'll talk more about that, and so hang on just a minute.
We'll be right back with our guest, Butch Witkowski. Welcome to the
show. But thanks for having me on. Thank you. And there's another
thing sometimes, you know, I probably shouldn't bring it up at all,
but we almost didn't get this thing together. That's the thing about live shows.
You know, anything can happen. And my skype wasn't talking to your
skype and phone issues we're looking uh, on and on and on, but
we did it. We're here. Yeah, got that solved, that's right.
So Butch, I always look around for, you know, different people
in the UFO field, and your background was fascinating. I watched a leasure
on YouTube and thought you'd be interesting to have in the show. And I
always like like to say, it doesn't have to be someone totally mainstream.
It's always fun to have different views, and it's you know, it's one
of the reasons I love doing the show. So let's why don't you tell
the listener your background. I just told the story of how you got interested
in UFOs, But let's hear your your background. You you were involved in
criminal investigation or something like that in the past, law enforcement and then uh,
after the siding, UH, I took an interest in trying to find
out what I actually witnessed there and to sound with others. I should mention
that every siding I've ever had, I've never been alone, so I know
I'm not crazy. And like you said, I just I was just needing
to go about it a different way. I wasn't getting the answers I wanted.
And after spending a small fortune on a library and all this other stuff
that you need to do on the internet and you know, talking to people
and going to conferences and this and the other thing, I decided to start
the UFO Research Center. And we started in two thousand and nine with one
group. We now have twelve groups, two in Europe and ten in this
country. Florida, Georgia, Utah, Oklahoma, a name of you.
All the researchers involved are all longtime researchers, either you know, on their
own or with mofon. They encompass current and former police officers. We have
a federal judge, we have photographic analysts, we have psychiatrists, we have
private detectives, we have abduction research specialists, and we do it a little
differently than most groups because what we try to do is prove that something happened
or didn't happen forensically, because if it couldn't happen forensically, then it didn't
happen. So if somebody tells me that they saw something above the trees had
about one thousand feet and then I look at the weather and I find out
that there was no visibility whatsoever. It was a blowing snowstorm, you pretty
much know it was. You know it up story. But when you go
out and you spend a day or two or three on a case on site,
and we have two mobile units here in the state, they're fully equipped.
A matter of fact, we just replaced the one. We got a
brand spank a new one and they have everything in them from you know,
built in laptops and internet connections, radar, every type of investigative tool that
you can need on the scene of anything. I don't care if it's a
paranormal event or a UFO event or a cryptozoology event. We have all the
equipment on there. The only difference between the truck and the East coast on
the East end of Pennsylvania sorry, which is parked in front of my place,
the one that's out in the West end of Pennsylvania is that we have
repelling gear in this truck and that other truck has dive gear because he's a
certified diver. Other than that, the trucks are equipped the same. We
have our own personal radio channel channel well we have actually have six, and
they're regulated. Everything's either military grade or police grade in the units, and
it really works out very well because I can go, well, we just
took a fast trip down to Virginia to investigate some body parts that were found,
and we had everything to do what we had to do, including take
DNA and everything else. So, I mean, there's very few groups I
would say probably maybe, I don't think there's any out there to do that.
Everybody kind of does the old talk to the person that made the report.
Some look at the area, so some never go to the area.
Cameras we have infrared, we have television grade video. All our cameras are
Nikon or our computers are Panasonic tough books. So we have canopies, we
have tents we can set up, we have tables, chairs, I mean,
we've got everything we need. We can go out. We can actually
spend seven days in the field without leaving the truck. Wow, Now where
did where did the money come from to to get these babies on the road?
My pocket. Really it is privately funded. Yes, we don't take
donations. We don't. We don't solicit any donations. And I did that
for a reason. You know, once you start asking for donations, are
people you a donor? It's really giving you some serious money. You're kind
of beholden to somebody. And I don't ever want that to be said about
us that you know, well, the only reason we're agreeing with him is
because he gave him a check for a thousand dollars or something like that.
I don't ever want to hear that sounds like campaign contributions. Yeah, so
we do it on our own. Now, we do take old equipment that
people don't use anymore, because we do have a couple of folks in our
group that they just can't afford to go out and buy equipment. So if
somebody wants to donate an old camera or an old tape player or something,
a video camera or something like that, we'll take that and send it to
them. But that's the that's the only type of donations we've ever taken.
I think we took two cameras and one video camera, and I think somebody
sent us a bunch of star maps one time, So I have pretty much
all we've ever taken. And I'm really not really not into that. I
mean, there's always there's always bad vibes with that, and I just don't
want to get involved in that drama. Yeah, okay, Now, if
anyone wants to call in, I do believe our phone is working. You
can call and ask the guests a question. If you're listening live, you
can jump excuse me, jump in the chat room as well and ask a
question. The phone number is six three nine six seven four three. Oh.
Where do you get your your calls on? How does someone get a
hold of you that has witnessed something we have a website www. Dot U
four cop dot com and there's a contact thing at the bottom of the page
where they can send in their report or if they just want information we'll do
We'll we'll analyze photographs for people. We'll research our databases for something maybe somebody's
looking for from the past or or present. Tell people where they can get
stuff. I mean, you know, we operate a little differently. We're
pretty much open to everybody, will help anybody. We've traveled pretty much all
over the eastern half of the country, and we do conferences. We don't
charge for that, and we do a lot of speaking engagements. We don't
charge for that, so it works out very well. I mean, I
think that the group's years past got away from dealing with the public except for
you know, you know what I'm saying. They more or less deal with
the next book they're going to write or the next white paper they're going to
print, and they kind of left that getting really involved with the case that
kind of went by the wayside. M H. So let's hear it as
a situation where you have used some of this equipment in your trucks and in
trying to solve the situation. Well, a lot of times they are.
You know, let's they were going out and we're going to do a star
watch. You know, we'll set up canopies, table, get our computers
out and set up all the cameras, get the infrared out, the get
everything out we need. And that's pretty much done at almost everything we go
to. Not so much that we'll set up cameras, but if we think
that, you know, an individual seeing something, you know, weekly or
monthly, or a certain time of the day or during a certain type of
weather. We've gone out in snowstorms already where a guy said he kept seeing
flashing lights off in the distance. So we went out and we sat in
the truck and we watched, and we got our photographs and went in there
and told me he was watching a tower flashing red. And you know the
thing, I live on top of a mountain in another mountain over there is
a tower that's flashing and when it's like snow or something like that, the
light really does carry. So I totally understand. But you would think that
if you live there, that you be used to that. Yeah, and
the guy lived there for like thirty years, so either he really wasn't paying
attention, or he never looked in that direction before. We've recently gone on.
We have a lot of sightings right now, a lot of reports,
not sidings, but reports in Pennsylvania of a cryptid type of creature that we've
already had one expedition. We got three, four six more scheduled in different
parts of PA. Most of them are occurring in central Pennsylvania of people seeing
this unknown creature of sorts. And when we went out there, their technology
was beat because the woods were so thick that I had one of my guys
walk in five steps and I lost him, so cameras would have been useless.
So it was just one of those sit for a couple of days and
listened and see if we could pick up anything that way. And we walked
around with thermal imaging devices which we have on the trucks, and the thermal
cameras picked up nothing. So I thought that kind of strange, being that
I was in the middle of forty five hundred acres of prime game land,
just teething with animals, and we heard nothing, saw nothing, didn't hear
one sound, had nothing recorded on any of the cameras that we did have.
Up like the go pros and stuff. Yep. So now we went
a little different this time. We got we just got cameras and two new
cameras. They're surveillance cameras and they'll take a photograph every half second and they
cover one hundred and fifty degree angle wide angle. So with two of those
we should be able to pick up pretty large piece of real estate and photograph
it. Now. I heard Stan was talking to Stan Gordon and there's a
you know, he was saying, how many different like cryptic things are going
on in Pennsylvania And this one particular person that was reporting this unusual. I
think that's what you used. What can you describe what they thought they were
seeing? Oh? Well, they every report we have, everybody describes the
same thing. We don't have anybody that veers off from this description that we
started back in July of twenty fourteen. Seven to eight foot tall, massive
chest, muscular arms, with hands, howk dog's leg, very thin waisted,
wolf like head, glowing yellow eyes, and it stands its ground,
It does not run, it does not hide. And they're all saying the
same thing, and there's no way this could be some type of hoax Nope,
no way. These people have no idea. And what really set me
straight on that in the very beginning of the research, which is going into
its third year now, is the fact that I found it reports exact reports,
but I could match up against the report that I got two months ago
from eighteen sixty five in western Pennsylvania. Jeez. Now someone posted up on
the message board the Jersey Devil. Does that have anything to do with this?
No, totally, totally different. This is more I saw somebody just
posted werewolf. Yeah, you could probably get it close to more of a
werewolf or maybe a skin walker, because you know, like Bigfoot, they
hide, they don't want to be seen this thing if you see it.
And like the last guy they saw one, he was just walking. And
and they all take place in a state park. No place outside of a
state park do we have any These are all taking place in heavily wooded areas,
game areas and state open park areas, which are very large parks.
And the last guy was standing less than thirty feet away when he saw it,
and it never took his eyes off him. He kept his eyes on
it, and he started backing out, and it just stared at him.
It just followed him all the way out the trail with its eyes. And
I mean this guy still shakes some shamers when he talks to me about it,
so I can't imagine seeing So you know, well, I'm hoped.
I'm hoping to see something like that, but I just don't really, to
be honest with you and your listeners, I don't have any idea what I'm
looking at or what I'm looking for, because, number one, you know,
there's protocols for investigating the paranormal. There are protocols for investigating the UFO
siding. There's no protocol for investigating anything like this right at all. Yeah,
and you know, the indigenous population of the United States, the Cherokee
especially used you know, the wolf is mostly their sightings as a wolf creature
with their skin walkers. So and skin walkers are not very nice. I
mean, they're very dangerous from what we've gathered from thost folks out there in
Oklahoma and from what we've read up on and you know what it is,
I have no idea. I'm trying to keep an open mind about it and
until I get something on film, which is probably all I'm going to be
able to do. I really don't even know what I'm looking for now.
Was there any new American culture in that area of skinwalk in Pennsylvania? We
had no white men in Pennsylvania until seventeen fifty four. Up until then,
this was Indian territory. There were I believe nine tribes. Susquehannock were the
biggest. They were Iroquois, Mohawk, Susqualantic, Delaware. So the Susquehantic
were the biggest. They were the warningest tribes. They were war with everybody.
And you know, it's so the place is full of burial grounds.
And when we contacted people indigenous out in Oklahoma and talked to a medicine man
and a chief, they told us that, you know, being that the
ground was just loaded with burial sites, that you could be dealing with a
skin walk sure that is basically guarding over those sites. And he warned us
right up front, don't touch anything, don't take anything. If you do
find something, don't take it, leave a a And they sent us,
they sent us some stuff to help protect us, which I have no idea
what that's all about. But we will do what they say, and only
because I have no idea what to do. I mean, I'm just I'm
out there throwing technology at something that I don't even know I'm throwing it at.
I have no idea. Excuse me, pardon me. So we we
try to stick you know this, this kind of thing really fascinates me,
and we do try to stick more to the UFO topic because we have you
know, a lot of people listen to the show for that particular reason.
But I don't care if we you know, spin off a little bit here
and there and things like that. Really is interesting to me, and it
just to me, it just goes along along with UFOs in a way that
is just another unexplainable you know. And like one person said to me,
how do we know that it's not something from a UFO or a from the
paranormal? Right now? Linking the paranormal into one big subject, which would
be ufology, cryptozoology, and of course ghost hunting is not so far away.
There have been paranormal events that have taken place where lights have been seeing
the sky. There have been lights seeing the sky where something strange took place
on the ground, whether it was a crypto siding or a paranormal event.
So I don't think they're that far apart anymore. I mean, at one
time they had held their own separate little rooms, but I just don't see
that anymore. I mean, more and more researchers are trying to connect one
with the other where I just read an article where a ghost hunting group that's
all they do is hunt ghosts. They are now setting up cameras facing the
sky while they're in doing what they're doing, and they're trying to see if
anything goes on in the place that they're investigating inside, if anything's gone on
the sky outside, which I thought was a pretty neat trick. Excuse me.
One of the things that I think UFOs gets a little bit of a
separation. Now. I do realize there's a heck of a lot of unexplained
things. I've had a few things happened in my life that were unexplainable that
we're really interesting still are. But I think UFOs are a little different in
a way that you know, the mass sightings, the radar returns all that,
whatever it is that there seem to be so much closer to grasp than
some of the other things that we encounter. White ghosts and for sure,
and one of the biggest things is I mean, you can look at tons
of evidence on UFOs. I mean, we still get on the average about
seven or eight reports of glowing orange orbs in our state. We've got a
very good picture one which was taken by a student at a university. We
have it's just triangles, triangles and orbs right now. In the last I
would say three years are the most that we're getting reports on. The last
one being one of my guys, who's actually a police officer, was coming
home from work and he spotted one crossing the highway above him, and you
know, turned around and tried to follow it as long as he could,
moving very slowly or I know, this was a triangle and very large,
and and it just he said it was so large it had to make a
noise. But it made no noise whatsoever, because he stopped the car and
got out right along the highway and he said, I didn't hear a thing.
And he said, it passed right over top of me. And it
had two very small lights in the middle, which really weren't any particular colors
that it was just it was like looking at an old lava lamp, if
you remember those. And then not too long after that siding, we had
another one in Exeter, Pennsylvania, which is right down the road from the
other siding, of a similar object, again a triangle, but it was
followed by three orbs above it, and the orbs were red in color,
and they got some pictures, but they used a camera phone camera and it
didn't really really outline the triangle. You could see the you could see the
orbs, but not make out the the triangle too. Well. Yeah,
now there's there was some up on the chat room that people saying that one
guy says, I missed the saucers. I love that. Well, you
know what, there there hasn't been. I haven't seen or read of any
reports of saucers in years. I mean they're either coming through as cigar shape,
triangle, squares, orbs. Another one that started popping up about two
years ago was a long flat rectangle. So I don't you know, the
classic saucer. I haven't seen one of those reports in years. I've seen
some photographs that were taken are supposedly taken recently, but when you look at
the photographs, you can you know it don't take the five minutes to figure
out that they were photoshopped. Wow, you know that what's the sighting I
had in two thousand and six was definitely a disc And you know, you're
right. I've talked about that a number of times that it seems like,
you know, maybe that's the old model and the new model is the triangle,
this year's model. But no, it's really strange. I think it's
strange that it would change or that would be seeing something different, and that
could be something simple like if we are being visited from another species out there.
Let's just say. I never like to say we are definitely it's definitely
extraterrestrial. I'd say it's most likely it could be. But well, you
know, when you investigate this stuff after a while, you better have a
really open mind because I know I've read things, I've seen things, I've
been involved in things that for the life of me, with all the technology
we have, I can't figure out. Nobody else can either. And I've
got sixty four people that I can show this to or talk to about something,
and if they can't come up with anything, and I can't come up
with anything, you know, it's just another thing. It's unexplainable. But
when you see something travel across the sky from horizon to horizon and zigzagging all
the way in a matter of an eyeblink or two. That's not ours.
We don't have anything that fast. Or you're standing there talking with a state
trooper and he said, oh, what's that. You see something zigzagging and
it stops, drops, makes a U, and comes back up and then
continues on the way, and he doesn't think anything of it because he sees
them all the time. That's the first time I ever seen one in my
life like that. So you know, it's whatever's out there, whether it
be ufology, the paranormal cryptosology. We have answers for some things, and
we have others that we have no answers for. Yeah, yeah, I
know, And you know that's one of the main reasons I'd like to do
the show is just too I'm not thinking that it's most likely that I will
ever know what the heck is going on, but it's always the interesting part
is to explore here people's sightings and also people's ideas on what they may be
seeing or what they possibly could be that that's one of the things that really
keeps me in it. Yeah, and I like calling myself a skeptical believer,
because you know, without the evidence of proof, you're just telling me
another story. And I've heard and read thousands of those, so you know,
I try to stay on a level path with this. You know,
it could be this, it could be that, or it could not be
this, or it could not be that, and then you know, make
up my own mind, write my report, and that's it. Now,
why while we're on this subject along these lines, why do you think someone
in the science field doesn't want to try to really look at this hard.
Now, there are some people, but it's few and far in between.
Well, it's the same, most likely, the same reason that the government's
never going to disclose anything. I mean, I know there's a lot of
people that say, oh, well, disclosure is going to happen next week,
next month, next year. You're never going to have any disclosure because
for them to disclose, they'd have to admit to lying for the last fifty
or so years. Yeah, and the same thing happens with scientists who've been
pooh pooing it now for whatever time. If it came to those guys,
their credibility would be shot in a millisecond. So it's easier to stand there
and be a skeptic than it is to be a approver of truth and evidence.
And even then when you do come out with proof and evidence, somebody
will come after you and say you manufactured it. You know, it's just
a big hassle. Yeah, so I think, you know, I often
laugh people say, well, one, do you think they'll be disclosure?
I said, when somebody one of those things lands in some farmer's yard and
he's smart enough to call the news before he calls the police. Mm hmm.
Well, you know I talked. I had a conversation a while ago
with doctor Melba Ketch him, you know, the Bigfoot DNA research, and
you know, she like just a very nice lady by the way, and
she just you know, threw caution to the wind, and all her background
in many years of her work that she has done, she can now no
longer testify in court you know, many things, because she just took this
subject seriously and that's what can that's what can happen. And she's had death
threats. She's had a place where she was going to speak someone actually bombed
it, just you know, prior to when she was going to be there.
So it's amazing where you know people can just people don't want to have
anything something big like this looked at seriously, it seems, well, well
they don't because I mean, first of all, look at how many folks.
But let me put it to you this way. I have twelve books
here on my shelf I'm looking at in the monkst fifteen hundred of them.
But there's twelve on the shelf I keep separately. They're all written by different
authors. They're all on Roswell crash, every one of them. Which one
am I supposed to believe? Are they all? Pardon me? They all
different accountings, all different everyone is different by a different author. So which
one do I believe? Good point? Yeah, and you have you have
this guy says this, and then this guy says, well, that guy's
nuts. This is what really happened. And then that guy says, this
guy's crazy because that's not what happened. The first guy was right or sort
of right. But my idea is better. And I wonder why people are
confused when they talk about UFOs or they talk to people about UFOs. I
mean, they've been fed garbage for so long that you know, I would
say, out of all these books, there might be a dozen or two
that I may say would be close to factual. And then when you find
out that the people who wrote these books never saw UFO or never went out
in the field and investigated the UFO, that's a little disheartening to me.
Yeah, I understand what you're saying, but I think there are some good
people out there that are trying to do about thing. Absolutely that would be
an excellent job. Move On has a cropload of good investigators, but they're
kind of hampered because when they do an investigation, that investigation ends when they
turn it into a CMS file. Huh. Well, and that's the end
of it. Let's talk a little bit about that. You know, I
don't want to move on bash but oh no, absolutely not. But I
do get I actually do get a lot of contacts from people that are that
do feel that way and feel like a lot of things are not available to
you know, do more work on and that's one of the things. But
people have to understand that, you know, you're talking about an organization.
It's got a lot of folks, and if they had to equip those people
and get them all out in the field, that would be tons of money
and the independent researchers you know, like J. C. Johnson that investigates
paranormal things out in the four corners of this country. I mean, he's
self funded and he travels all over four states. But if he was with
mouf On or any other large group, he couldn't do that because they're not
going to fund him to do that. You know, they wouldn't. They're
not going to fund my ninety thousand dollars truck with equipment out there, no
way. So although they're and we have Mufon members in my group, and
they're very good and they've been there a long time and they know what they're
doing, but I have more. I give them more access and the benefit
of having the equipment they need on the spur of the moment, which I
don't think Mouffon can do till this day. They couldn't when I was involved
as a star team member and a chief investigator. They couldn't do it then.
I don't think they could do it now. So when you were when
you were an investigator, did you ever hear any rumblings of you know,
the possible CIA connection with Mouffon, Well, yeah, I think that probably
started at day number two after they started started movefon. Look, everybody's going
to look for something to discredit somebody. It doesn't matter. They'll say,
you know, Mouffon's owned by Bob Bigelow, or Moufon is a government agency
in the Clan Distant Operation. Move On throws away their reports. That's all
silly, that's that's not factual. Uh. Move On is just a big
organization that collects a lot of data and has a lot of investigators out there
collecting data. So as far as that goes, I give them kudos because
I you know, I did it with them, I did for them,
and it takes a lot of work and it's out of pocket expenses. It's
not as much as doing it on your own. But uh, it's uh,
they'll be around for a long time. I mean, I know people
saying that I've heard and I've read on the internet that you know they're going
to uh, you know, just getting done. You know they're just going
to fold. They're going to do this and it's going to happen next month
and next month and next month. That's silly, it's just nonsense. This
move On will be around a long time. It's a good operation. How
they how they control all those people is beyond me. I don't know what
they have thirty five hundred members or something like that. It's crazy. It's
about three of our It's crazy. Yeah, now there was. We actually
had a guest on the show and he, you know, he's probably he
does listen to the show who actually had first hand, a first hand incident
that happened right in front of them. Was an actual tie at one point.
This is going back into the nineteen eighties where a convention if if,
if you are listening, and you are welcome to call in and share your
story once more. He was on a while back. Six oh three nine
sixty seven, four oh three zeros the number if anyone wants to call in
and ask our guests a question. So I don't know, you know,
I mean I I you know. The thing you do here is that they
were infiltrated or whatever because they wanted to know what information that was being gathered
out there. Whether that's true or whether they'd even bother, I have no
idea why would they bother. I mean, they got the CIA, the
d OD, they got spooks all over the place. They want to find
out something about you and me or anybody else or any any group. But
that's out there. They could do that without them ever knowing about it.
They wouldn't have to buy the business or you know, infiltrate the business.
They could just do it. End the story. You know, they can
watch all their email, they can watch every conversation, they can listen to
everything they're saying, and they wouldn't know the difference. So I think that's
just, you know, the conspiracy theorist kind of make me crazy because I
was just going to ask you if I sounded like a conspirast. Well,
you know, you could make a conspiracy. You know, give me your
birth date and I'll make a conspiracy out of it. You know, you
can make a conspiracy out of anything. But when you want to get to
the real bottom line, you've got to deal with fact, fact and evidence.
That's what you need. You need to have the evidence. You need
to have the facts. Could it happen, did it not happen? Go
to the scene, talk to the people face to face. I don't do
any interviews with anybody unless they're out of state or they're too far away to
go over the internet or a biphone. I try to do everything face to
face because I can see what they're talking about. I can see what facts
they're going to present. I'm looking at them right in the eye, you
know, and they're showing me what they saw, where they saw it,
and I can, you know, do a lot of things to find out
if that could happen or not. That circle in their yard it's been growing
now over the damp season for the last two years, is mold, you
know. I carry a sample of it to show them, so it's not
a crop circle or it's not a landing side of a UFO. And you
know, we've investigated well a little over twenty five hundred cases now since two
thousand and nine. Yeah, talk to you a little bit about some of
the cases you've investigated. But before that, before you make the trip out
to actually speak to someone, what type of preliminary information do you need before
you actually pack up your truck and go there. Okay, Well, what
we'll do is we'll well, of course, take the original location and then
we'll do a background on the location, see if there are any other sightings
in that area, that county, that street or whatever, and trying to
get as much as we can historically doing some background research from years back.
I'll go back sometimes five or ten years, and you know, if there
is the same lights being seen in the same time in the same place over
a period of five or ten years, well then I'm probably dealing with something
that's man made, you know, especially when somebody gives you explicit directions like
I see it in the northwest sky every once a month or something like that,
usually turns out to be either a satellite or a a planet. And
uh, then you have weather is very important. And then when you get
on the scene, you know and you hear the story. Now did the
story change from the time I got the report to the time now that I'm
on the scene. That's another kicker that gets me, you know, the
story changes, or we get a meat tooism, And the meat tooism is
the neighbor coming over when he sees the truck parked up front says, yeah,
I saw it, me too, I saw it. So But background
research is very important before you even get to the get to the scene.
I mean, you have to know what you're what the background is the area
h is there is there an air force base or is there a testing area
for missiles? Nearby, or is there anything but nearby that could you know
that could cause what they saw, And then you just take it from there
and then just follow up on it and just keep going until you come to
your conclusion. Yeah, with everything you have invested in your time, you
want to make sure no one's going to waste it, that's for sure.
Yeah. Well, and I don't. I've had it wasted. But sometimes
the waste is good because something will always come up where they'll say, well,
you know the guy that owns the bar down the street, you know,
he saw something one time and about and he got down to the bar,
and you talk to that guy, you know, and he may put
you in a better direction, or maybe he'll back up what the other guy
said, or vice versa. Yeah. Right now, someone just in the
message room wanted to know, what are some of the cases you've investigated.
Well, we have some active ones right now that have been going on for
years. I see a lot of on your chat room about Todd cease.
That's still an ongoing case. The Todd Seas case started in two thousand and
eight and we've been on it ever since. We have a cold case unit
that works the case and it's it's probably the strangest case I've ever investigated on
anything. I'm not familiar with it, and I can give you yeah,
go ahead. Todd Cees was a gentleman thirty four years old that one morning,
as he did many times during pre deer season, would get on his
ATV and go up into the woods, very heavily wooded area in Northumberland,
Pennsylvania and look for deer spot deer for the coming season. He was an
avid archer, and he was last seen that day at one am and got
on his ATV and took off into the woods and told his wife people back
like it. Yes, somebody just correct me thirty nine okay, trying to
remember everything about this case from the beginning. He went into the wooded area
and didn't return, and at two o'clock the family got nervous and the wife
called the police, reported and missing family members showed up brother's father and they
all went looking for him son trying to find him. They couldn't find him.
They did locate the ATV. They saw the ATV which was approximately one
mile from the home. They brought They couldn't bring it back because they couldn't
find the keys. And they wind up towing it back later, but the
search went on. About two hundred and thirty five searchers we found out were
the actual searchers that showed up, which would have been the local police,
three fire companies, two search dog teams, one cadaver dog and one set
of cadaver dogs, and one set of bloodhounds. There was a state police
helicopter in sky. There were state troopers on the scene, also many people
that knew him, a lot of folks, relatives, everybody out looking for
him, and nobody finds this guy and a lot of this stuff. We
have not posted very much on this case on the internet because it's still ongoing,
but everything that we have gotten on the case, we don't rely on
the original reporting of the case, which was all taken from a newspaper,
which was doctored many times and has now been taken off the newspaper archives.
Since we've been investigating. Everything we've gotten so far in the last six years
is in black and white. We've had everything done where we didn't ask anybody
for a phone answer. We got everything on their letterheads. We have the
autopsy report, we have a toxicology report, and what happened was that they
didn't find him the first day. On the second day, they didn't find
him till it was about seven something in the evening, seven fifty four.
I believe it was that the body was located, he was identified and removed
from the scene. Autopsy followed and he was found to have died of a
cocaine taxology overdose of cocaine. Now kind of simple thing, right, But
it turns out that he had no drug abuse background. We could find no
arrest records out in a traffic ticket. All his personal information like on the
Social Security death site and military records, driver's license, hunting license, none
of that even appears anymore anywhere. He's pretty much been white, clean,
family, doesn't talk about family. Lied to us a couple of times.
We caught him on that, and it's all in black and white. I
mean, it was emails back and forth with family members. The carner led
to us. The police lied to us. Police said they were the investigating
team. It turned out they weren't. The state police were The body was
in How can I say this? The body was in horrendous shape when it
was found. It was in the way advanced stages of decomposition. And the
kicker is that this body was only twenty yards from the house when it was
found. So where did the cocaine play into this whole thing. Well,
that's what was given as the cause of death. And it's a mystery because
he had no background. No only did he have no background, but when
we took all the toxicology reports and stuff that we have directly from where they
were supposed to come from the corner, we took all out official paperwork.
To other doctors and pathologists, they said the amount of cocaine degraded cocaine that
was in his body would have killed him within a matter of a couple of
minutes. There's no way he could have walked from that KTV back to his
house. And besides that, if you have a decomposing body in the middle
of summer laying in your back twenty foot from your back door and fifteen feet
from the road that all these searchers were driving up and walking up to get
to the search scene, didn't smell this guy. Godaverdogs. I've worked with
kidaverdogs. They can find a body six foot under dirt, no problem.
They can find a body underwater. Soad I'm going to say this, did
David Poladi's ever look into this? No, do you know David? You
know? Yeah, yeah, I know David very well. Now David is
more in the missing person's end of it. This guy wasn't really a missing
person but for I forget how many hours now off the top of my head,
but he U, this is a guy whose background had nothing to do
with drugs of any types, of any type. And if you wanted to
kill this guy for whatever reason in that area, you could walk up in
the middle of the night or when he went up there at five am or
whatever, and shot him in the head and nobody would have paid any attention
because the place is loaded with rattlesnakes. They have the Rattlesnake Round up there
every year, So gunshots going off day and night in those woods, it
means nothing. Or you could have just walked up in him and the head
with a hammer, you know. Yeah, So does how does this happen
that the guy disappears and nobody sees this guy or smells this guy? Well,
then the family said, well it rained that day. Well I was
quite quick to pronounce, you know, I could check that in a matter
of minutes checked that and I said, yeah, it did rain that day.
She said, that's why it didn't smell him. I said, well,
that's a little hard to believe because your area for that day only received
zero point zero one inches of rain. That doesn't even get my windshield wet.
Now you know this is this is becoming familiar to me. I believe
was he like either mangled or something was really weird about him? As well?
Is what was he like mangled or something? No? Or charred someone
No. In the very very first information that came out about this case was
a UFO researcher, Peter Davenport, that was garnering all his information from the
newspaper. And I mean the newspaper lady said she was even one of the
people that in her news article original news articles which are no longer available,
she took them all off, said that she identified him. Well, then
the chief of police said he identified him. Then the father said he identified
him, Then the brother said he identified him, and then of a local
police officer he identified it. So we have all these five or six people
identified him, but till this day we do not know who identified the body.
That's really strange case. All his personal information is just missing. It's
gone. It's not there. It's not there. His you know, on
a Social Security death index, which anybody can look up, look up your
grandfather, it will have who he was married to, when he got married,
where he worked, where he lived, you know, where he was
born, where he went to school, all this information on how many kids
he had, the names of the kids when they were born. That's all
in the Social Security death indicts. You know what's on his what J.
C. Se born blah blah blah, died blah blah blah rest blank.
Very unusual. Oh that's it's not unusual. That's outrageous. I mean,
there's nothing about this guy. Now. To get to back to the beginning
of the story, the day of the siding, okay, UFO report went
in that said that there was an object above the power lines, which is
where the ATV was found. There's a big power line that runs up along
his property. He has ten acres, and they two fishermen and one farmer
down the road say that they see what looks like to be a guy in
his underwear being pulled up in of this craft. Okay, and then the
craft takes off. Now, when he is found. There are many people
saying he was found like this, and he was found like this, he
was facing that way, he's facing this way and face well in the other
times. What tells you exactly how he's found. He was found in his
cut off shorts. He actually had started out with a full body what do
they call him, a one piece suit of camouflage. Well, when he's
found, he has found in his cutoff jeans, a T shirt and socks.
So that matches. That matches what that UFO report said that those gentlemen
saw. Now everybody plays off on that and says, well, you know
this, that and whatever. And I'm just reading some of the comments coming
across your thing here and just said the FBI was involved. Know, the
FBI was not involved, and local law enforcement had nothing to do with the
case whatsoever. The case was handled by the Pennsylvania State Police, right down
to the viewing of the autops scenes and taking of evidence from the autopsy scene.
So a lot of stories floated about that. But I can tell you
this. When I started this investigation, I had a little half inch binder
with about twenty pages in it. I now have two eight inch binders that
are filled with documented evidence of what happened, who said what when it happened,
who was there, who wasn't, Where the body was found. We've
gone to the scene, to the house. The house was taken to sheriff
sale after it was actually sold by his wife and then whoever bought it defaulted
on their loan and it was went to sheriff sale. And we actually got
to walk the property, photograph and video the property inside and out, and
we found the tree was found under it's the only dead tree the property.
And is it's to be exactly, it's twenty two point five yards from the
back door yards uh huh. And from this road that goes up along the
house that takes you into the woods where he would have went with his ATV
to go up through there. He I think it was sixteen feet and four
inches right edge to edge edge of the tree to the edge of the road.
Now, to believe their story or the story that is being told,
all these researchers had to walk past this guy for two days. He's in
a case of advanced decomposition. That is impossible to happen in that short period
of time. Uh that way, doesn't it? Yeah? I mean it's
just it's it's not it's not strange, it's bizarre because everybody relates back to
the original case. And even when I talked about it originally, I was
wrong because I didn't have that information then that I have now. I didn't
talk to people or family members or the corner or the police or the state
police or anything like that. We just had one of our guys up there
last April the police. He went to the police station to get information on
a Floyer request that we sent. And we've not had one Floyer request and
that police department answered, not one. We haven't had one of our ployer
requests answered by the state police either. We've been told that they can't give
that information out because it is an open case. Now the death has been
attributed to cocaine toxicity, so it's not an open case. The death has
been documented as cocaine toxicity. So the only way you can keep an open
case in the state of Pennsylvania is murder. So murdered by who. Now
that takes us in another direction. Did he owe somebody money, was he
messed around somebody's wife or but I mean, it looks like they went to
a great length to put that much cocaine into a guy. I mean,
if using cocaine, there are certain things that happened to the body. I
mean the heart, especially the lungs, the nose. Different things fail,
but they show a telltale sign. His body was as clean as a pin.
Other than scrapes and bruises and bangs and knocks and a few lacerations,
the body was pretty much undocumentable. He had no signs of enlarged heart or
kidney issues, or liver issues, or nasal issues or throat issues. But
yet he was this, according to them, this wild cocaine using fanatic.
To When we talked to the boy scout, I mean the little league baseball
team that he coached for many, many years, they just laughed at us
and they said, look, this guy even had the slightest inkling of doing
any kind of drugs. Do you think we let him around these kids?
You're crazy? He said, this guy didn't buy a cocaine and here's a
kicker. So from the time the body's picked up full time it hits the
autopsy table, we have fourteen hours where we don't know where that body is.
Wow, So what a crazy case you're telling me? Man? Wow.
And I know we're going into the second hour in a little long into
this, but that's fine. I wanted to switch gears a little bit,
but also kind of along this same subject, I want to talk. As
I mentioned in the beginning of the show, that we're going to go a
bit off the UFO topic, and that is possibly off the UFO topic,
who knows, but human mutilations kind of similar. But before we get into
that, you mentioned that you also do a lot of abduction or you do
some abduction investigations, and yes, we do that. To investigate an abduction
must be much harder to do than UFO siding. How does that work?
Well? Abduction cases are usually, I mean, an abduction case that really
catches your mind are abduction cases that usually come from folks that all of a
sudden have a recollection of something that happened twenty years ago, and they're not
involved in uthology. They wouldn't know how to go buy a ufology book or
an abduction book if they had to. They're distraught, they're pretty much physically
mentally destroyed by it. They're very they know what they saw, they know
what they went through, and they describe it in very great detail. They
don't acould I say, they don't flutter around with descriptions of what they thought
may have happened to them. They're pretty much right on the money. And
a lot of things happened in childhood. A lot of things happened, you
know that just you just shaking your head, you know, I mean,
wow. And when you do get into one that's a really good case,
you'll find that it wasn't only that child that was seemingly abducted, but it
was the brother, the sister, the mother, the uncle, the father,
the grandfather, ran through the whole family. And that's when you start
bringing in specialists, you know, I start bringing in people that that's all
they do. You know, I'll take all the initial stuff and then I'll
transmit that to one of our folks, maybe in Florida or Georgia, who
that's all they do and have done for many many years. As a matter
of fact, Denise Stoner are one of the folks that runs our Florida group.
Her and Kathleen Martin wrote a book together on abductions, and she's very
active with Muffan as an abduction specialist. So I really take it so far
and then I'll turn it over to them and if they're busy, then it'll
go to doctor David Jacobs. Now, when you were saying, you go
through all this, you hear or I hear everywhere that it's like more and
more and more people yes or claims, and you're seeing that as well.
Yes, we've had about a I'm going to say, to be on the
safe side, about a twenty percent increase in the last two years of production
reports. Wow. Yeah, that's that's pretty high, pretty hip a lot.
And you know, I hear the numbers. Sometimes you hear people say,
you know, in the possibly in the millions, and just you know,
like a percentage of our society. You know, you hear this and
I don't know, you know, even if a small, tiny, well
let's just put it this way, even if one out of those supposed millions
actually was abducted, that would be big time news. Well, when I
first started doing statistics to find out just about how many people were ever reported
missing, I mean that set me back in my chair. I couldn't talk
for twenty minutes. I went back to two thousand and eight. I used
the NCI Statistics, which is the National Crime Information Center, put out by
the FBI. That means that that when people see in their newspaper or they
might get a suburb or something on the internet, they'll say, you know
that such and such town, here's their crime report for the last year,
while they always run a year behind. So and on that report, which
every police department in this country. I don't care if sheriff, state police,
local police, it doesn't matter if their law enforcement. They have to
fill this form out and on the forum and asks questions. It's kind of
like yes or no, or how many how many bicycles were stolen, how
many rapes did you have, how many murders occurred, how many gun thefts
did you have? You know that kind of stuff. And that's how they
tally the crime statistics for the country. Okay, pretty simple. And also
on there is missing person reports, murders, runaways, a whole bit.
So I went back and researched that it's open to the public. Anybody can
do it. So I started nineteen ninety one, and I actually started.
I did the first research in two thousand and eight and I came up with
it had seven hundred and seventy eight one hundred and sixty four missing persons filed.
Now, ninety five percent of those are found, not like David to
ask you about that, okay, about ninety five percent are found, not
like David's part where pretty much nobody's ever found. Now, about seventy five
percent of those are runaways under the age of eighteen. About twenty percent are
spouse abuse murders, elderly walkaways, ransom, you know, kidnapping, that
kind of stuff. But five percent, five percent are never found. So
that just for two thousand and eight, that means that thirty eight, nine
hundred and eight people were never found. Okay. So I went back to
nineteen ninety one and totaled all the missing reports from nineteen ninety one, and
that came up to thirteen million, eight hundred and sixty one thousand, sixty
five. Using the same math with that five percent, it showed that six
hundred ninety three thousand, fifty three people are never found, no trace man,
woman, child, no clothing, no body, no nothing. Now,
if they were found like five years later, would it you know,
like living somewhere yep, it would take it off. It would take them
off. Yep. Oh, in seventeen years, you had seven hundred ninety
five people gone off the face of this planet. Totally amazing, and someone
could be say murdered and buried or something like that. Yeah, yeah,
but the five percent means that they've never been found, No trace has ever
been found, no body, no parts, no clothing, no nothing.
And we're not talking about criminals here or wild and maniacs or anything. We're
talking about everyday people. So now the United States does this to the FBI.
But now take a country like say South Africa or just in Africa,
where whole villages have disappeared. They don't take any statistics. So whether there
were fifty people in that village or five thousand people in the village, they're
gone. China doesn't do it, I mean places that have these. Nobody
in Europe does this, so they have no idea how many people are missing.
So if you look at the forty thousand, seven hundred a year since
nineteen ninety one, what's that say about the rest of the world. I
mean, that's crazy. Yeah, it's amazing, really is, and it's
pretty scary. Actually, yes it is. Think about it. So now
I heard one of the lectures I've listened to what you were talking about.
You got into the human mutilations and where do you think the connections, How
does all that fit into everything. Well, back in the early sixties,
rumors were all about, you know, they came to the forefront of human
corpses were being found with strange wounds like the time, the same type found
in cattle cattle mulations, and they were just dismissed as in bed taste by
most ufologists. Nobody wanted to get involved in that, and until today it's
still the black part of ufology that's really never talked about. But I started
looking into it because I was looking at actually cattle mulations, and I started
coming up with all these cases and I'm like, well, man, there's
a lot of cases here. So the one that really struck home right off
the get go is a Guada Pryanga Dam in Brazil case and took place in
nineteen eighty eight. The Guada Prayanga Dam is a man made dam that supplies
water to San Palo, a very great fishing spot for the locals. Also,
so a couple of guys in a boat are not doing their fishing thing
and they spot what they see as a body looks like a body on the
shore. So instead of being like most people would go check it out.
These guys went and got the cops. So the cops showed up, and
they show up with a forensic team. Thea for our side, and that
doesn't usually happen. So at the crime scene, this guy is found with
the following items surgically removed his eyes, his left ear, his inner ear,
lower jaw, inner throat, and tongue. There are one inch to
one and a half inch holes in the following areas of his body, which
were the muscle, tissue, glands all removed, shoulder, chest, naval
thigh, testicles removed, prostrate, prostrate gland was removed via the urethral tube
in Testines were removed via a hole in the navel. Anus was caught out
to the colon. Body presented no signs of bloating, which in itself I
think is pretty remarkable. Due to the high heat in that area at that
time of year, he should have been blown up like a balloon and there
was no body odor whatsoever. Neither was there any blood found at the scene
other than some speckles of blood around around the wounds themselves. He is laying
there all the photos are taken. The body was never touched till everything was
done, so it was really done properly in the right order. And then
we get the autopsy report which was made public years afterwards, and the death
was due to massive trauma. Now, so the really strange parts about this
is just the opposite of Todd sees this Todd was dead forty I forget forty
to forty four, something like at fifty hours or something like that. But
the time of death placed on this guy was forty to seventy two hours before
discovery. No bloating, no liver mortis, no rigor mortis, no noticeable
blood at the scene. And one of the things that pops up in the
autopsy report is the term vital reaction. Now, vital reaction would use a
lot of lawyers, police use that because the term vital reaction really indicates the
response of a living body tissue to an injury. So if I take a
knife and I stab you on your arm, you're going to pull away.
But when you pull away, you're going to cause some ripping, tearing,
blacking and blue around the wound and stuff like that. And it's really importance
in forensic medicine because it really it helps to attempt to establish that an injury
was inflicted before death or after death. So, in other words, if
you're dead and I take a knife and stick it, and you're just gonna
be a hole from the knife, no blood, no bleeding, no black
and blue or anything like that. But one of the things that vital reaction
does mean is that in this when they did the autopsy, when they removed
the skull, they saw massive human thomas, many eman thomas, very small,
but many of them that would only be found in a very I like
to say, a crushing injury where somebody was pinned in a car or crushed
against a wall with a piece of machinery. They didn't die right away.
They were alive and all this pain, you know, they're going through all
this pain, agony in their brain, you know, and all of a
sudden, these small blood vessels start to burst. And that really means that
when this took place, when this guy was I'll use butchered for a better
relution of any other word, he was alive. Out Now we have one
animal mutilation like that, the case of Snippy. I can't remember Snippy's real
name, but that was the name. The newspaper gate this this horse.
The investigators are on a scene and horses laying on his side, and the
one investig says, there's something strange here. He says, in his words,
he said, you know, the eyes were removed, and the viscous
fluid should have run off the horse laying on his left That should have ran
off to the left side, correct. And the guy goes, yeah,
he said, well look at this, and he's looking at the horse,
and the viscous fluid actually ran straight down the nose and off the end of
the nose. So the horse was upright when his eyes were removed. Geez,
So the horse was alive. Now there's a researcher in Puerto Rico who's
working on this now for about I don't know how many years, probably a
lot longer than I'm alive, maybe, And he says he thinks that the
our space brethren are going after indorphins. Now, what causes endorphins? If
I run up to you and I say, damn, Martin, here's a
million dollar check, it's all yours cash, just go spend it, your
endorphins are going to go. Right. They just did the same thing that
happened. The same thing would happen if I put your hand in the meat
in a vice and start to turn the ice closed here and doorphins would go
crazy. So it's a good reaction, band reaction, and he's trying to
put this together with these human mutilations. Now, there are a number of
mutilations that have taken place. I mean there's a number of cases. They've
had them. They've been documented back in over in England, back into the
fourteenth fifteenth century where they found, you know, a local who disappeared in
twenty four hours later, somebody found him hanging in a tree and he had
these strange holes in his body and parts of the body interior were missing.
There's a number of those. Another case that was really fascinating. I did
get to talk to the lawyer that was handling the case for the gentleman was
in Iiro, Egypt, in an area called Benny Bazaar, which is right
outside of Cairo. This took place in two thousand and five where three families
were butchered exactly like this guy. Everything in the house was butchered. I
think if they had goldfish, they were butchered. Everything was gone. Everybody
was killed, man, women, children, dogs, cats, whatever,
and they blamed it on a gentleman who was retarded, mentally retarded, had
the mentality of about a four or five year old, didn't even know his
own name, lived thirty five miles from the scene of the crime, and
they penned the crime on him. Well, they had no other suspects,
so he was likely. And that case drugg on for years, and then
finally, you know, they got him acquitted. And I did get to
talk to his lawyer, and till this day, till right now, if
this guy wants to go outside, I don't care. If he wants to
go out outside of his property line, you know, he wants to go
outside that wall and take a walk in the street, they have to call
the police. A police officer will come and escort him. If he's going
to go to the mosque to pray, police, shopping police. And if
he doesn't call the police and he goes outside those parameters, he will be
locked up for life. And this is someone who was acquitted. He was
acquitted, yes, unreal, Wow, but those were the conditions of him
being acquitted. These things have to take place till he dies. Wow,
this is a guy can't even tie his own shoes. Yeah, and thirty
five miles away. That's thirty five miles away. He has to have help
to eat, to go to the bathroom, to take a bath. I
mean, this guy is basically a walk in bowl of vegetable soup. And
to do what to do? All the things that were done to the guy
in Brazil or like are done to cattle, which are pretty much exactly the
same, same organ's taken, the same parts, all taken the same way.
Bingo, there's a guy nailed with it now, I have heard.
I don't think anyone has talked about the human mutilations on this show. I've
had Chris O'Brien and a few other people. Linda Moulton, how I think,
talked about a little bit on this show before. But is there so
one of the things that Chris O'Brien said a lot of times, there is
blood in the corpse of the cattle. Is just everything you know settles to
gravity, Yes, but not that much. I mean, if you've ever
seen a Kyle Butcher, you won't believe the amount of blood that comes out
of that animal. I went to an avatar just to see it, to
see because I never seen it beforce. I went to see it. When
they open that animal up. I mean the floor, which is probably in
a room about sixteen by eighteen, is covered in blood from one animal.
I hope no one's eating right now. But you have Chuck Kowski, who's
a long time researcher, remember move On. He as a matter of fact,
he's the cattle researcher for move And Chuck has also found, you know,
small pools of blood here and there, but that's stuff that's draining out
of small veins. I mean, we're not talking about we're talking about an
animal that's been you know, opened up front, rear, top, bottom,
and you've got this little a cup or so of blood. Well,
what happened to the gallons that we're in there? They're not on the ground.
They're not on the ground. And places where these animals have been found,
years many years have gone by where you can go to that exact spot
and nothing is growing there. I mean it could be in the middle of
a wheat field and that the animal carcass where it laid. There's nothing growing
where that carc is laid. So you know, although there are not many
researchers that do cattle mutilation. They pretty much all have the same thing gone
as far as what they do. And one of the things Chuck was really
excited about was he had an EMF detector and he was actually getting a hit
on a cow recently recently killed, and he was this thing was moving,
whatever it was inside this cow's body was moving and he was picking it up
on an EF detector. So there was something electromagnetic in that cow that was
moving around in that cow. And when he got to the other side,
it disappeared, just started and it wasn't there anymore. Stranger and stranger.
Now what are what are you? You mentioned that there's a lot of similarities
between human utilations and cattle. Yes, and well, the anal areas poured
out, the ears are cut, eyes are missing, lower jaw. One
of the strangest cases I worked on was actually a horse in North Dakota where
a lady was riding in an indoor ring. If anybody's familiar with riding horses
an indoor ring, they those rings are pristine. There's no sharp objects or
anything like that. They're very smooth. Silver rider or they animal does not
get hurt. So she stops the horse in the middle of her little thing
to go get something out of the tack room. The tack room is seventy
five feet from where she left the horse standing. Okay, when she comes
back, I don't know how long it takes to walk seventy five feet,
got whatever she got and came back. But when she comes back, the
horse's jaw is opened up from right below the ear all the way down.
The flap is hanging open, and the lower part of its jaw is missing.
The horse is bleeding very little. The horse is not screaming, it's
not running around, it's standing exactly where she left it. They call a
vet that says, there's nothing I can do for this horse. They had
to put the horse down. And when she sent me those pictures, I
just I couldn't believe it. So right away somebody said, well he ran
into a nail. Well, there are no nails in a riding ring.
There's nothing in a riding ring that would injure a horse or hay rider,
because you know you're riding around in a ring. There's nothing there. There's
just walls, and there's smooth walls, either wood or metal or whatever.
But there's no place where the horse went. I mean the horse was right
where she left him, and he never let out a howl or scream or
I mean, that just doesn't make anything. Slap a horse, you slap
a horse good with a stick, that horse is gonna yell. Yeah.
Now imagine this horse is standing there while somebody removes its lower jaw and opens
it up. I mean, this horse has opened up like he was hit
with a saber. So that is crazy. Now there's a couple of questions
up on the message board, and one is what does the EMF detector mean?
That would be moving inside the cow? The only thing that it would
that Chuck's thing was that there was something giving off an electric magnetic pulse.
Could have been anything. I mean, okay, your microwave will give off
MF, you'r a watch will give off EMFR, your monitor will give off
VMF. Electromagnetic fields are everywhere, But why would there be an electromagnetic field
and a cow. Yeah, it's pretty weird. I mean, there's no
natural anomaly that could be associated with that inside of like a living being.
No, no, you could take an EMF detector unless you have a heart,
unless you have a pacemaker. An EMF tector will just give just like
radiation. If I put a radiation detector against your body, I'm just going
to pick up residual radiation which could be from your clothing, from the air,
or anything else. But to make an EMF detector move, there has
to be an electromagnetic pulse. I see, Wow, electro magnetic pulse in
a cow. That was dead amazing. So Phil asked on the message board
how many human mutilations have they been reported to date? Best we know,
we don't have a whole lot from England, other than the fact that they
gave us like seven cases to look at in this country. I can tell
you that in a second here, I believe that's ten one, two,
three, four, five, six, seven, eight, nine, eleven,
eleven in this country. And yes, and are there variances or are
they just a lot of similarities pretty much similar. The one that would be
closest to the general the gentleman in Brazil was the New Zealand case in nineteen
ninety four. Gentleman was found basically identically cut up just like this other guy
in Brazil. Yes. Uh, they go back to nineteen fifty six in
New Mexico at Air Force Base in New Mexico, Holloman Air Force Base.
A sergeant JP Lovett, him and this colonel were going down range to pick
up some parts of a missile that was fired at test missile and the colonel
heard the sergeant scream. He turned around, he saw something wrapped around the
guy's leg and pulling him into a craft. And then, of course they
arrested the colonel for murder because they couldn't find a body, and they kind
of didn't believe the story. But two days later, Sergeant Levitt shows up
about a quarter of a mile from where he was taken, and he's in
pretty much the same condition as the other fellas. Now, and another thing,
we have no report of any female being done in like this, really,
And what is that with cows? Are you familiar with how that works?
If cows or bulls mostly female? I think I saw. I think
I may have read two cases where a bull was involved, and other than
the unlike with the cow, the otters were taken. In the case of
the bull, the penis and testicles were removed. But now that's another story.
And you see some of these pictures where somebody has actually removed the utters
without damaging the stomachs of that cow. That's pretty much impossible. There's only
like a quarter of an inch of skin between the the outside of the utter,
the skin and the inside which the next thing they would hit would be
the would be the one of the one of the cow's stomachs. I mean,
we talked to some vets and they said, hey, there's no way
you're going to remove the utters or the whole sack of utters without damaging the
stomachs. He said, nobody's that precise. I mean you're using a scalpel.
Well, these cuts aren't being made with a scalpel. These things are
cut clean. They don't even show signs of being quarterized. I mean when
you quarterize something, there's always a burn mark. I mean even if they
were quarterizing something on your finger, you would see the cut and then you
would see the closure and you would see a little dark spot around it.
Well that's from the eat. Well, these things show no heat, So
what do they use it? We don't have anything like that, And is
it the same for the people. The precision cutting like that totally amazing.
So anyone, before we move on, if anyone wants to give us a
ring and talk to our guests tonight, that's six three nine sixty seven,
four oh three. Oh, you're welcome to call in. Pardon me.
And in these these cases, are they is there anything that can tie any
of them together, any similarities between say the victims, or anything that at
all that makes any type of sense where there's some type of connection. The
only besides the condition of the body or the carcass, the only thing that
kind of ties them all together is that they're in very remote areas when it
happens. The sergeant, you know, he's in the desert. The the
guy in Brazil, he's on an island in the middle of a man made
waterway. Some cattle have been found up on high ranges, in high mountain
areas where you know, people don't even go up to check on the cattle.
I mean, they just turn them loose for the feeding season or whatever,
and then they'll round them up come spring or whatever. And these guys
are you know, they're out in the middle of nowhere. And there have
been ranchers that have been had cattle mutilated six or seven times on the same
ranch. Wow, one guy had a cow mutilated fifty feet from the barn
door. Yeah, I never saw or heard anything just went out that morning
and there laid the cow. Right. I've heard of some similar things to
that, like on the Skinwalker ranch and stuff. Now, when we were
when I first asked you that question, what I meant was not the cows?
Was there anything that can connect the people together? And before you answer
that, that calls on again. I think I'm gonna dare try this.
So hello, call can you hear me? Yep? Okay, go ahead?
Say your name? Where are you calling from? John Tackett, Columbus,
Ohio? Hi? John? How are you ken? How you doing?
And I'm Martin. I'm doing good. What's your question for the guests
tonight? My question is what actual specific visual is the most common visual UFO
you actually see? Because you made a comment earlier that dis are not really
as happening as they were, So what would your perspective be on the most
common visual siding of the UFO? What's the shape the most common visual is
I'm going to split between two because they're almost one for one is the triangle
and the orbit? Okay, so the orb? Now, what do you
think the orb is? You think that's necessarily like what it would be our
like example of like of our you know robotic planes we have at this point
out I'm talking about. Yeah, I know what's talking about. But these
orbs have been seen. They first came into visual range and photographic range during
World War two, the yeah they called the five five YEP and then they
kind of disappeared after the war and nothing was really seen of them again until
the late fifties. And they were very sporadic. There weren't many of them
seeing. I think somebody did research one time where they came up with about
one hundred reports and five years of an ORB. Now I'll get eight to
ten reports a month of an orb. Okay, and how many and then
now here's some of the theories. Some people think that they are scout ships.
Some people think that they are taking samples. Because there are a lot
of reports where an orb is seen. It may it may be a large
orb. Smaller orbs will exit the larger orb and they will those small orbs
will drop to the ground, they will disappear, won't be seen again,
and then maybe ten fifteen minutes later they'll come out of wherever they were and
go straight up, you know. And my perspective on those orbs with as
drones as we know them in our society. Does that make sense? Well,
yeah, and it could be. I mean, it could be.
But I guess the part that always quizzes me about these orbs is that there
was a case in Oregon not too long ago. I believe it was last
year or the year before, and as a matter of fact, it was
a moof On case. And the gentleman is out cutting his lawn. He
can't work anymore. He has epilepsy pretty bad, so he's outcutting his lawn.
He lives on a one way street that has a turnaround at the end.
At the end of his street, there's opposite to turnaround. It's a
tea intersection. On the other side of tea intersections, a fence in the
field and a club of trees for a farm. He sees an object go
behind the farm, which he describes saucer shaped. It goes behind the trees.
He can't see it anymore. Next thing you know, he says,
the ship craft goes back up and disappears into the sky very fast. Out
from behind the trees comes an orb that's about the size of a large beach
ball. Comes down the field, crosses over top of the fence, comes
up the street, goes right past him to the point where he can touch
it. The dogs in the neighborhood, which are normally quiet, and one
German shepherd that's never even barked a day in his life, probably says,
is trying to rip apart to get out of the house. His dog is
going bananas. The thing passes him. As he looks at it, he
said, it's actually like translucent, but inside it's I had a buddy of
mine see one, and it looked like a translited balloon for a distance,
can almost see froot. Was also similar to a mirror. Yeah, yeah,
that's why he described. He's it was almost like looking at in a
mirror with something moving around inside, like different colors. Now, the thing
stops on top of a swer plate and all kind of start flying off the
swer plate, and then it picks itself up in about four or five foot
off the ground, goes across the street and attaches itself to a pole that's
an electric pole, a pole that generates electric brings the electric into those homes.
There's only a few homes on the street. It detaches itself, it
starts to go down. Hold on, Hold on, now, when they
touch itself to the actual pole. Did anybody in the area report any kind
of power is shues, Yes, they had. There was a dropping power,
but nothing went off. I mean, in other words, a light
bend, like you know you're going to lose power, right, everything dropped
down. By this time, there's neighbors outside they see it. There's one
lady who's on her porch next door to him, screaming at him to get
away. And he's just dumbfound that. He's just stand there looking at it.
And it comes back off the pole, goes back over to the plate,
raises up four or five foot in the ground and just vaporizes. Gone.
Interesting. So it's almost like an idealless more old things. All total,
there were four witnesses that saw the same thing. Interesting. Well.
John Hay in the house was sick for four days vomiting. Wow, John,
thanks for calling in. Okay, Thanks Martin, Hey, you're awesome.
Thanks Hey, Hey, thanks. Wow, that's quite the sighting,
you know, we had. Ah And it's fine that that we're back on
UFOs. But someone wanted to ask you a question in regards to what the
conversation was a minute ago and of the human mutilations to the common phenomena of
black helicopters lights in the sky. That well, there have been two reports
where black helicopters were seen in the area, not overhead, but in the
area. And when I say in the area within a mile of where the
mutilation was found, yeah, wow. And that was both cattle and human.
Now, when we were talking earlier and I asked what the connections were,
it sounded like you started speaking about the cattle mutilations and when you said
they were, you know, left way out remotely and stuff like that,
I was asking about the human mutilations. Were there any is there anything that
connect could connect one to another or any similarities that you're aware of other than
the wounds? No, that's it. Wow, yep, amazing. Now
are there people that are researched. Are you one of the few people researching
this or are other people involved? I pretty much think I'm the only one
that does it anymore. Hu. And you said this started back in nineteen
fifty six, that's when that's yeah, that's when cases started popping up that
bodies were being found with strange markings and missing parts. Yeah, and known
in the US. And you started to say you were unsure about other countries,
do you know, I mean England. I believe you said other England.
England. Their researcher over there, Richard Hall has been investigating these four
probably a lot longer than I have. And uh, you know, he's
gotten some really great stuff going on over there. I'm familiar with with most
of his stuff. But you know, he's got a lot of stuff he's
holding back yet that he's got to verify. And that's the biggest thing with
these cases. You got to verify him before you go talking about them,
because you know, they're so strange, they're almost you almost think that somebody
just sat there and made them up. But you know the cases that have
come forward that you know, like the autopsy reports we can read. You
know, I had to. I had to get the one from Brazil,
uh translated from there, you know, their language to the US. But
it was worth the fifty bucks. Excuse me, and not that people speak
porch around my area. Yeah. So the is there anything like radiation or
anything like that, any any exposure, any other unusual things. No radiation
exposure, no burns, no, uh no, how should I say damage
done to the body, you know, like with an axe or a sharp
knife or anything like that. Everything is precision. They're all done the same
way, done in the same way, same parts are taken. Not much
body found, and you know, it's just it's just very strange. And
approximately how long is the body? Uh like, left wherever it is?
And of these indoor outdoor, where are they found? Most outdoor? The
only one I know that was indoor was the Cairo case. The others were
all outdoors bliss Idaho that was out in the middle of nowhere, which is
strange because and when I first read that report, it kind of took me
to Todd Cease because when Cease was found the area where he lives and we've
been there, I mean, it's so rocky that, you know, I
was wearing pretty heavy, heavy boots and those rocks were hurting my feet.
I mean, it's just unbelievable how rocky that area is. He was found
in his socks and his feet were not damaged at all. There was no
his his feet angles top bottom were unremarkable. There was no damage, no
scratches, no bruises, no nothing. Howd he get there? That's really
weird. Yeah, And there seemed to me that there was another and maybe
I'm confusing another case, but that people saw like someone the same thing,
like lifted up into a craft, but the guy was really in rough shape
when he was found. Is that Is that anything that sounds familiar to you?
That's the same case. It is the same case. Yeah, that's
todd case. Yeah wow. See everybody's conception of is that a UFO picked
him up, took him up, and then you know, a day later,
dropped him off in the back you know, out in the back country.
But you know, although we have a report that the guys, the
fishermen and the farmer see something like a man being pulled up into a craft
above the power lines, dressed in his underwear, which at a distance from
where the river is to where he was seen, and you know, it's
like come out of his driveway and across the road you're at the river.
You have at that distance, you know, a guy in his shorts and
a T shirt with socks on would look like a guy in his underwear,
I guess. And that's how he was bound. Cut off jeans, T
shirt and socks. That was it. Yeah wow. Now you mentioned in
the very beginning of the podcast that or the live show that is that you
had ten separate chapters or whatever of this organization and in Europe, are you
like in touch with these people constantly or does everyone work on their own.
No, we're in continct contact with everybody. They know what I'm doing.
I know what they're doing. Matter of fact, that case that you were
talking about with Andro the uh the ham operator and uh the airline pilot,
that was a mouf on Utah case, right, and the girl that investigated
that, Erica Lukes, is the person that runs my uh U four top
branch in Utah. Oh as just recently. Yeah, oh okay, good,
Yeah. I like Erica. She's very nice. She's uh she's a
past guest on the show. Yeah, she's she's quite a lady. Yeah.
She she joined us about believe it's three weeks now, that's just about
right. Uh. Yeah, we have been playing phone tech because I wanted
to find out, uh what exactly transpired. So I'm sure she'll share some
of that with me. But yes, uh wow. Well, you know,
we're getting near the end of the show, and so we have maybe
five or five minutes or so left, four or five minutes, and do
you actually have a website yes, Oh yeah, it's at four cop U
four cop dot com. It's a UFO rc op dot com. No,
I mean, do you have a personal website or is that? Can you
just be found on that one? Uh oh no, I'm also on Facebook.
We have like three pages on Facebook. We have a U four cop
page. We have a UFO Research Center Pennsylvania page. We have a JAR
page. I am the editor of JAR Magazine, which is a journal of
a normal abduction research. And then I have a personal page also. Now
are you Are you a retired and you just do all this now like this
sounds like a full time job. It is a full time job. When
I'm done with you, I'll be up here in my office till about four
am. I'll grab six hours of sleep and I'll be back at it.
Wow. And I retire two thousand and thirteen. Uh huh. And then
basically this is taking your time. Now we're one more question along these lines.
What's the furthest away that the farther set you will travel for a case?
Does it depend on what the case is? Not? Really? I
mean if somebody needs our like I said before, if anyone needs our help,
whether it's something I can do here in the office or through the other
groups, or if they require you know that if they need that mobile unit
on the site of what they think they have, it's a catimulation whatever or
whatever whatever comes up. If it's within Pennsylvania, no problem. I can
be either into Pennsylvania within five hours or less way less. And if it's
like say, I'm going out to Missouri to investigate something, as long as
they can help with the gas and tolls, I'm on my way. I
see. Now, do you have pictures of this rig? We just took
the old ones down? The new pictures of the new. We just bought
a twenty sixteen Ford transit and it's something we always because the other one was
a'll Ford. It was a two thousand and twelve, but it was low
top. This one we can walk around in. Inside. We have a
lot more shelving in it. We just got it back from those folks yesterday.
And for the last three days now, I've been shuffling equipment in and
out and in. Now we'll have everything rate to roll in the next By
the end of this week, everything will be finished. The only thing that's
not won't be finished for two weeks is the radio people have to put all
radios back in. Of course, we're going to do a different setup this
time. We're going to put radios in a console between the seats, just
like a police car, instead of hanging them off the ceiling and all that
stuff. Yeah, almost like storm chasers in a way. We make them
look sick. We got more equipment than they awesome. Well, this has
been a lot of fun. I've really enjoyed speaking you to you tonight and
my pleasure. Yes, and so anyone out there that would like to contact
you for a UFO report, it's instead of going to the other two that
you hear so much about. They're welcome to contact you. Yeah. They
can contact me about anything, whether it's a question they want answered, or
if there's something I can find in my database, or they may have a
photograph that want us to look at. We use Photoshop CMS seven to go
over our photographs and a couple other programs we have, or they have a
case that they want looked at. The only thing I won't do is I
won't interfere if somebody else's investigating the case. Yeah that makes sense, Yeah,
I just I just don't do that. I mean, you know,
that's just bad. That's just bad juju. Yeah, totally get that.
All right, Well, it's time to go, and I want to thank
you so much. It's been a real pleasure and I hope to talk to
you soon. Oh absolutely anytime. All right, you take care, you
too, take care nowe thanks bye bye, all right everyone, thanks so
much for listening. And it's been a great show I think and hope you
enjoyed it. And if you're listening this far, you're either listening live,
or you're listening on the Dark Matter Digital Network, or you're a supporter of
the show and listening to the podcast. Remember you can still donate, doesn't
matter what it is for the buzz off for Cancer for Kids that I did
and yes I'm bald as a cucumber. You can check that out on podcast
UFO. Thanks for listening. We have the one and only Stanton T.
Friedman is on next week and we'll be back then, same time, same
place. Remember to keep your eyes to this guy and your curiosity hid anything s