1
00:00:00,280 --> 00:00:03,319
And it hits me, Oh my
gosh, this is that triangle. You

2
00:00:03,319 --> 00:00:07,400
know, there's an explanation for everything
that occurred in the Randalchampars. It doesn't

3
00:00:07,400 --> 00:00:12,279
involve aliens at all. It was
completely silent. It comes right over our

4
00:00:12,359 --> 00:00:17,239
heads. It's so gothic, fue
social really standing in the cleary. He

5
00:00:17,320 --> 00:00:19,920
turned over to my father and held
his hand, and he looked in his

6
00:00:19,960 --> 00:00:27,879
eyes and said, we're not alone. Welcome to podcast UFO for our live

7
00:00:27,960 --> 00:00:34,119
show. We're live every Wednesday at
eight pm Eastern Standard Time on podcastufo dot

8
00:00:34,159 --> 00:00:38,159
com. During the show, feel
free to participate live in our chat room,

9
00:00:38,799 --> 00:00:42,920
and don't forget to like us on
our very active Facebook page. Hello,

10
00:00:43,240 --> 00:00:46,759
and welcome to the show. I'm
Martin will As your host, and

11
00:00:46,840 --> 00:00:51,240
our guest for this evening is Butch
Wikowski, and we're going to be talking

12
00:00:51,280 --> 00:00:56,960
about UFOs in Pennsylvania, and in
our two we're actually going to be talking

13
00:00:57,000 --> 00:01:02,840
about a very interesting subject, human
mutilations. So that's going to go a

14
00:01:02,840 --> 00:01:04,480
little bit off topic, sort of. We don't know if it's off topic

15
00:01:04,560 --> 00:01:08,519
or not. And I'll be telling
you a little bit more about Butch right

16
00:01:08,560 --> 00:01:12,400
before we introduce him and I want
to thank all the listeners that support the

17
00:01:12,439 --> 00:01:15,599
show, and if you can't support
the show and still want to listen free,

18
00:01:17,040 --> 00:01:21,719
you can always listen on podcastufo dot
com every Wednesday night at eight to

19
00:01:21,719 --> 00:01:26,599
ten pm Eastern Standard Time, or
on the Dark Matter Digital Network that's Thursdays

20
00:01:26,640 --> 00:01:32,400
at ten to midnight. I want
to tell everybody that I am completely bald,

21
00:01:32,400 --> 00:01:34,719
and if you don't believe me,
just go to podcastufo dot com.

22
00:01:34,760 --> 00:01:38,959
You'll see right there a picture of
myself shaved, and you know what,

23
00:01:40,120 --> 00:01:44,000
it's cold. Even though it's warm, I have a kind of a cold

24
00:01:44,040 --> 00:01:48,599
head, and you know, I
might, I might keep the look.

25
00:01:48,280 --> 00:01:52,879
I think it actually looks pretty good. But I'm proud to say that because

26
00:01:52,959 --> 00:01:57,439
of all my friends and all the
people that listen to the show and some

27
00:01:57,640 --> 00:02:02,640
family members, we have exceeded the
goal of one thousand dollars and it's still

28
00:02:02,640 --> 00:02:06,599
growing. People can still donate.
They keep it open. For a while.

29
00:02:07,799 --> 00:02:10,240
We had one listener in particular that
really stepped up to the plate,

30
00:02:10,759 --> 00:02:15,520
and I'm going to mention his name, Alan Sanderson, Thanks so much,

31
00:02:15,759 --> 00:02:20,800
and a number of listeners. There's
another one, Reginald. I hope I

32
00:02:20,800 --> 00:02:24,560
can say Reggie. He pitched in
really as well. And it doesn't matter

33
00:02:24,639 --> 00:02:30,520
small donations, big donations. It's
all been very nicely received. They're very

34
00:02:30,560 --> 00:02:36,719
excited over there at the it's called
one Mission buzzoff dot com dot org.

35
00:02:37,599 --> 00:02:40,240
They're extremely excited because I exceeded my
goal and everyone's real happy. I'm real

36
00:02:40,319 --> 00:02:45,800
happy and I want to thank everyone
that helped out in that. And let's

37
00:02:45,840 --> 00:02:51,520
see, Alejandro, how are you
doing? I am good. How are

38
00:02:51,639 --> 00:02:54,719
you doing great? And you know
it's good to use your Skype sounds perfect

39
00:02:54,719 --> 00:02:59,960
tonight. The last couple of weeks
we had trouble and somehow it's worked itself

40
00:03:00,199 --> 00:03:02,800
out. Glad to have you back. Yeah, it was changes with the

41
00:03:02,919 --> 00:03:07,879
wireless internet here at my work,
and we finally got that worked out.

42
00:03:07,039 --> 00:03:13,199
And it's a good thing. It's
good to be talking to you on Skype

43
00:03:13,400 --> 00:03:17,639
again. Yeah. Hey, do
we have anything happening? I know that

44
00:03:17,800 --> 00:03:23,719
it's been kind of quiet, which
is good in some ways but bad in

45
00:03:23,759 --> 00:03:27,400
another way. I like when things
are active. Anything. We don't have

46
00:03:27,479 --> 00:03:30,800
anything, all right, Well,
let's go. I'm just kidding. We've

47
00:03:30,800 --> 00:03:35,240
always got something, So I guess
the first thing I'd like to talk to

48
00:03:35,319 --> 00:03:38,879
you about I don't think we talked
about this on your show, and my

49
00:03:38,039 --> 00:03:45,759
memory is too terrible to remember.
Did we talk about that Ham radio case.

50
00:03:46,240 --> 00:03:50,680
It's not boy. I'll tell you
what. If I'm forgetting it and

51
00:03:51,039 --> 00:03:53,120
the listener remembers it, I'll be
in big trouble. But I don't remember

52
00:03:53,159 --> 00:04:00,280
anything. Yeah. So this is
a neat case where Pat Daniels is name.

53
00:04:00,360 --> 00:04:04,919
He I guess has his own podcast
on paranormal topics and such, but

54
00:04:05,080 --> 00:04:09,599
he listens. He's a Ham radio
enthusiast, and he was listening to his

55
00:04:09,639 --> 00:04:15,920
Ham radio one evening and he heard
he was listening to transmissions between airliners and

56
00:04:16,040 --> 00:04:24,040
a control tower, and he heard
this plane report a UFO sighting, which

57
00:04:24,079 --> 00:04:28,360
is kind of exciting. Here's a
quote from the website UFO's Northwest, which

58
00:04:28,399 --> 00:04:32,279
helped with the investigation about what he
says he heard. He says a pilot

59
00:04:32,319 --> 00:04:38,360
reported seeing an extremely large, bright
object that he estimated a mile wide to

60
00:04:38,480 --> 00:04:41,839
his right. The air traffic controller
told him that he was looking in the

61
00:04:41,879 --> 00:04:46,759
direction of nephi Utah. Apparently,
the air traffic controller told the pilot that

62
00:04:46,800 --> 00:04:50,279
the object was not detected on radar. The object appeared to keep paced with

63
00:04:50,439 --> 00:04:56,800
the aircraft. So he was excited
that's what he's listening for, but unfortunately

64
00:04:56,839 --> 00:05:00,680
he didn't record it. He did
go to Utah move On Erica Luke's was

65
00:05:00,800 --> 00:05:08,920
the director at the time, and
they did an investigation. They went and

66
00:05:08,959 --> 00:05:14,279
listened to the archives of these these
aircraft and they did find some archives for

67
00:05:14,920 --> 00:05:17,160
and figure out what flight it was. They found out it was an American

68
00:05:17,279 --> 00:05:26,160
Airlines flight from San Francisco to I
think it was something like Pennsylvania, Philadelphia,

69
00:05:26,160 --> 00:05:30,879
Pennsylvania, and then they put in
a FOYA requests. They also enlisted

70
00:05:30,879 --> 00:05:35,920
the help of William Puckett of UFO's
Northwest. William Puckett has a was a

71
00:05:35,959 --> 00:05:42,240
meteorologist for a while, worked for
the EPA for many years, and he's

72
00:05:42,279 --> 00:05:46,120
worked in our radar and so he's
helped out with many radar UFO cases.

73
00:05:46,680 --> 00:05:51,920
So they put in a FOYA to
the FAA to get more information and they

74
00:05:51,959 --> 00:05:57,160
got they hit the mother loads.
Six weeks later, they got audio tapes,

75
00:05:57,319 --> 00:06:02,720
tower logs and some radar data that
so the audio did confirm that there

76
00:06:02,839 --> 00:06:08,519
was a report. So in the
audio which is posted on our site and

77
00:06:08,680 --> 00:06:14,639
on the UFO's Northwest, you can
hear the conversation, and the pilot does

78
00:06:14,759 --> 00:06:18,279
say that. He asked, you
wouldn't happen to know what this bright orange

79
00:06:18,319 --> 00:06:24,000
square we're flying over is, would
you? The tower said no, I'm

80
00:06:24,040 --> 00:06:28,040
not sure. Is it on your
right side? And the pilot says,

81
00:06:28,079 --> 00:06:33,000
it's actually directly off our nose right
now, it's below us. What town

82
00:06:33,040 --> 00:06:36,439
are we next to you? And
they said you're near Nephi, Utah And

83
00:06:36,519 --> 00:06:40,120
the pilot said, okay, cool, Now I'll see what I can go

84
00:06:40,199 --> 00:06:45,839
find, thank you. So that's
the extent of the conversation. So unfortunately,

85
00:06:46,480 --> 00:06:48,680
the pilot doesn't mention this object,
you know, following them, or

86
00:06:48,680 --> 00:06:53,600
being a mile wide, or even
being in the air, so it gives

87
00:06:53,600 --> 00:06:58,560
the impression it could possibly be something
on the ground. However, the researchers

88
00:06:58,560 --> 00:07:04,480
are pretty sure that this audio was
edited so parts of it were removed so

89
00:07:04,600 --> 00:07:10,639
they don't feel they have the full
audio. And then they did William Puckett

90
00:07:10,680 --> 00:07:14,800
did some look at the radar data
and he did find off to the right

91
00:07:14,839 --> 00:07:18,480
of the object, just south of
Nephi, actually just above the highway there,

92
00:07:18,560 --> 00:07:26,439
Highway fifteen. He found some unknown
returns, so it wasn't He also

93
00:07:26,519 --> 00:07:30,240
talks about how these returns were very
erratic, so kind of strange, like

94
00:07:30,319 --> 00:07:36,759
the object perhaps was tumbling or moving
strangely. So a great case, a

95
00:07:36,839 --> 00:07:44,920
great research to try to confirm that
something did happen. Mark d' antonio Mufon

96
00:07:45,079 --> 00:07:48,079
took a look at the case and
he argues that, you know, unfortunately

97
00:07:48,120 --> 00:07:51,920
the official story all we have is
someone talking about something below the plane.

98
00:07:53,000 --> 00:07:56,879
So there's a couple of possibilities.
It could be a fire, controlled fire

99
00:07:56,920 --> 00:08:01,120
on the ground, which would explain
what they saw, and the radar returns

100
00:08:01,120 --> 00:08:05,759
the smoke would be the radar returns. However, investigators have retorted and said,

101
00:08:05,759 --> 00:08:11,199
well, that's not the case because
we didn't see that on Doppler,

102
00:08:11,360 --> 00:08:16,959
and this isn't an area where they
can do controlled burns. Another researcher suggested

103
00:08:18,000 --> 00:08:24,240
it was perhaps a nearby power plant, but Lukes and Pucketts say, well,

104
00:08:24,480 --> 00:08:26,560
I think these pilots, having flown
in this area many times, would

105
00:08:26,600 --> 00:08:31,639
have known of the nuclear power plants, so wouldn't have mistaken that for something

106
00:08:31,759 --> 00:08:39,159
strange. And they're still trying to
get more audio and a witness, perhaps

107
00:08:39,240 --> 00:08:43,480
maybe even a pilot, so they
can confirm that the pilot did say,

108
00:08:43,039 --> 00:08:46,159
you know, it was a mile
wide and this was something in the air,

109
00:08:46,320 --> 00:08:50,720
because that's a big key. And
right now all we have is Daniel's

110
00:08:50,799 --> 00:08:56,320
word to go on on those aspects
well now, and why would he even

111
00:08:56,320 --> 00:09:01,240
bother to pursue it if it wasn't
something like that? Really, and this

112
00:09:01,399 --> 00:09:05,480
orange thing on the ground may not
have anything at all to do with what

113
00:09:05,759 --> 00:09:11,919
he had said, possibly earlier about
the mile wide thing. It's possible although

114
00:09:11,960 --> 00:09:16,720
it wasn't orange or bright orange square, he was explaining as something that was

115
00:09:16,759 --> 00:09:20,559
a mile wide according to Daniels in
what he had heard. In fact,

116
00:09:20,559 --> 00:09:28,960
that's the only key between what Daniels
reportedly heard and what is in the audio,

117
00:09:28,480 --> 00:09:37,960
which appears to confirm Daniels what he
had heard on transmission. So that

118
00:09:37,000 --> 00:09:43,000
confirms that he heard something. You
know. Can we be certain that Daniels

119
00:09:43,039 --> 00:09:48,039
isn't mistaken somehow in his memory?
We can't say for sure. And you

120
00:09:48,080 --> 00:09:52,960
know, Daniels, I've heard from
multiple sources as a trustworthy person. However,

121
00:09:54,679 --> 00:09:58,519
you know, in order for this
case to really have some bones,

122
00:09:58,559 --> 00:10:05,919
to really have more to it will
need some more official verification that these pilots

123
00:10:05,960 --> 00:10:11,600
did feel that they were observing something
peculiar that was in the air. Yeah,

124
00:10:11,840 --> 00:10:15,919
yeah, that's that's a pretty good
one. Yeah, it's a cool

125
00:10:15,919 --> 00:10:18,440
case. I really like it.
I really like the work that was done

126
00:10:18,480 --> 00:10:24,799
to confirm and uh and it's surprising
that the fa got back so quickly with

127
00:10:24,840 --> 00:10:28,799
the Foyer request. Now, would
you think that it's possible this pilot would

128
00:10:28,200 --> 00:10:35,600
report this to Nightcap? Possible,
but you know, it's just a minority

129
00:10:35,639 --> 00:10:43,320
of sightings that are reported. If
it was reported, I think that Richard

130
00:10:43,360 --> 00:10:48,480
Haynes and the other the guys that
and from what I understand, one of

131
00:10:48,480 --> 00:10:54,799
the people who work with our cap, ted Rowe, I think is helping

132
00:10:54,879 --> 00:11:00,799
out or they've actually consulted with him
on this case. So and they haven't

133
00:11:00,840 --> 00:11:07,000
reported having received any reports on this. So it sounds like the pilot just

134
00:11:07,080 --> 00:11:09,679
kind of was asking, you know, do you know what this is?

135
00:11:09,759 --> 00:11:13,399
They said no. But there's an
interesting, you know thing, is that

136
00:11:13,639 --> 00:11:20,399
the raid the tower said is this
thing off to your right? And some

137
00:11:20,480 --> 00:11:24,519
people ask why did the tower say
that? It almost implies that the tower

138
00:11:26,240 --> 00:11:33,039
was referring to some radar hits or
something that they saw on radar, because

139
00:11:33,480 --> 00:11:37,759
you know, how did he know
that whatever this was was to the right.

140
00:11:37,120 --> 00:11:43,960
That's a real good point, And
I'd never heard of smoke causing any

141
00:11:45,159 --> 00:11:48,120
radar hits before, but I guess
it makes sense if it's dense enough.

142
00:11:48,679 --> 00:11:50,519
Mm hmm. Yeah, oh yeah, smoke can definitely do that. I

143
00:11:50,519 --> 00:11:56,000
guess their argument though, is that
smoke would also repair on Doppler, and

144
00:11:56,039 --> 00:12:01,480
they did check their Doppler radar and
they didn't see that. But there's no

145
00:12:01,600 --> 00:12:09,559
argument that smoke could cause radar hits
so among the experts. So I guess

146
00:12:09,559 --> 00:12:15,159
that's that still a possibility. But
Mark is just saying that this is just

147
00:12:15,200 --> 00:12:20,399
a possibility he's exploring. But they'll
definitely need on that end to prove if

148
00:12:20,440 --> 00:12:24,639
that was the case. They'll need
more evidence to that also, so for

149
00:12:24,720 --> 00:12:30,759
instance, some recording of a controlled
burn in the area or something like that.

150
00:12:31,240 --> 00:12:33,919
You know. Another thing is a
lot of the UFO sightings that you

151
00:12:35,000 --> 00:12:41,320
hear about have create no hits on
radar at all, and that happens quite

152
00:12:41,399 --> 00:12:46,519
often actually, which is another mystery
within itself. You know. Maybe,

153
00:12:46,279 --> 00:12:50,799
of course, if they can get
here from wherever they're getting here from,

154
00:12:50,519 --> 00:12:58,320
they can probably be as stealth as
they want to be. Probably, Yeah,

155
00:12:58,639 --> 00:13:01,879
So what else has happened, So
what else. This is a story

156
00:13:03,639 --> 00:13:11,320
that Roger Marsh just sent in and
posted today of an event that took place

157
00:13:11,519 --> 00:13:16,279
in twenty fourteen September twelfth, twenty
fourteen. Now it's an old case.

158
00:13:16,320 --> 00:13:22,720
We wrote about it on September fifteenth
of twenty fourteen at Open Minds that TV.

159
00:13:22,519 --> 00:13:26,600
But it is brought up again and
they finally kind of have at least

160
00:13:26,639 --> 00:13:31,240
closed it. It's not completely closed, but they've just decided to market as

161
00:13:31,279 --> 00:13:39,000
an unknown. This is a citing
that actually the story is UFO over Las

162
00:13:39,080 --> 00:13:45,879
Vegas described as moving into a mist, and this witness recorded this video of

163
00:13:45,919 --> 00:13:50,679
this bright object that has like a
missed below it. Some people described it

164
00:13:50,720 --> 00:13:56,120
as a beam of light that was
headed towards the ground. However, many

165
00:13:56,240 --> 00:14:01,200
experts feel that this video, which
is pretty interesting, is most likely a

166
00:14:01,320 --> 00:14:05,159
rocket. And if you you know, we know more lately since we had

167
00:14:05,240 --> 00:14:11,919
those those really big sightings in California
fairly recently with the rockets making these extraordinary,

168
00:14:13,240 --> 00:14:18,080
you know, huge brightly lit orbs
in the sky, and this looks

169
00:14:18,080 --> 00:14:24,399
somewhat similar to that, and it
was seen across several states when it happened,

170
00:14:24,639 --> 00:14:28,720
and it made a lot of news. However, what's interesting, and

171
00:14:28,759 --> 00:14:33,720
this is noted in the Moufon investigation
very well by the researcher, is that

172
00:14:33,879 --> 00:14:39,279
the investigator on this case is that
there was never any conclusion. So there

173
00:14:39,320 --> 00:14:45,440
were lots of ideas about what it
might have been, and the news pursued

174
00:14:46,120 --> 00:14:50,960
these and such as Vandenberg, a
rocket from Vandenburg, a rocket from a

175
00:14:52,039 --> 00:14:56,080
test rocket, from a submarine off
the coast of California, all of these

176
00:14:56,120 --> 00:15:01,399
different ideas. However, they couldn't
find those to be the case. They

177
00:15:01,440 --> 00:15:05,840
talked to Van den Berg, they
talked to the Navy, and they said,

178
00:15:05,879 --> 00:15:09,200
nope, not ours, not ours, So they it was never found

179
00:15:09,320 --> 00:15:11,679
what it might be. In fact, when I looked at our story,

180
00:15:13,440 --> 00:15:16,519
James Oberg, who's a space journalist
and a historian, he writes a lot

181
00:15:16,559 --> 00:15:22,639
for NBC, and I think mostly
for NBC but also others, Space dot

182
00:15:22,639 --> 00:15:28,159
Com and stuff like that, he
actually often looks at our stories and he

183
00:15:28,200 --> 00:15:33,720
said that it looked like a pretty
standard rocket launch. However, the usual

184
00:15:33,799 --> 00:15:39,320
suspects seemed to have alibis this time, he said, so we still don't

185
00:15:39,360 --> 00:15:43,679
know, you know, who it
was, where this rocket came from.

186
00:15:43,759 --> 00:15:48,600
So it's still a mystery that is
really strange. You would think that it

187
00:15:48,639 --> 00:15:52,360
would, you know, come right
up who it was? Yeah, I

188
00:15:52,360 --> 00:15:54,600
mean it's off the coast of California, for God's sakes. I mean,

189
00:15:54,639 --> 00:16:00,600
no one can like launch a rocket
without having any Oh I don't want to

190
00:16:00,639 --> 00:16:04,919
say, you know, a record
of it, but no one can just

191
00:16:06,080 --> 00:16:11,039
plane launch a rocket without anyone knowing
about it. Yeah, unless it's the

192
00:16:11,159 --> 00:16:14,919
enemy. Yeah. I have a
feeling that you know, if you and

193
00:16:15,000 --> 00:16:18,360
I, you know, went to
San Diego, let's say, and rented

194
00:16:18,399 --> 00:16:23,960
a boat and you know, launched
a rocket off of a mile off the

195
00:16:25,000 --> 00:16:29,399
coast or something, Uh, it
would get noticed and they'd figure out it

196
00:16:29,440 --> 00:16:32,559
was us, and we'd probably get
in a little bit of trouble. I

197
00:16:32,679 --> 00:16:33,639
know. But you know, this
is a type of trouble I would like

198
00:16:33,720 --> 00:16:37,480
to get in. So when are
we doing it? Would you? Yeah?

199
00:16:37,559 --> 00:16:41,120
Because now I have a shaved head
and I'm criminal Like exactly right,

200
00:16:41,120 --> 00:16:45,200
you're one of those kind of you're
you're a bad dude now You're like right,

201
00:16:45,360 --> 00:16:48,279
But yeah, so this is really
weird. I mean it could have

202
00:16:48,320 --> 00:16:52,919
been a top secret test, you
know, and so it's kind of they're

203
00:16:53,080 --> 00:17:00,679
they're an unacknowledged test, but a
test where the populace could see it.

204
00:17:00,679 --> 00:17:03,119
It's a big mystery. I think
it's so strange. It's really weird.

205
00:17:03,559 --> 00:17:07,240
Now did you may have said this
and I may have just missed it.

206
00:17:07,599 --> 00:17:11,079
Where are there is there film clips
of this? Oh? There's there are

207
00:17:11,240 --> 00:17:18,240
videos and pictures of this, in
particular Rogers writing about one video that move

208
00:17:18,319 --> 00:17:23,640
On received and they posted it on
YouTube and it's in our story. But

209
00:17:25,119 --> 00:17:30,799
I also put a link to our
story on it from twenty fourteen, and

210
00:17:30,160 --> 00:17:37,079
Jason McClellan had written that story and
he has some video and other links to

211
00:17:37,440 --> 00:17:45,480
some other videos that were captured of
this object in September twenty fourteen. Excellent.

212
00:17:45,960 --> 00:17:48,960
Well, hey, thanks so much
man. It's always fun to have

213
00:17:48,000 --> 00:17:52,920
you on the show. Hey,
it's my pleasure, buddy. Congratulations on

214
00:17:53,200 --> 00:17:57,920
you know, on having no hair
match well matching your goal. You probably

215
00:17:59,599 --> 00:18:03,759
actually you probably raise about a dollar
per strand of hair because you really didn't

216
00:18:03,799 --> 00:18:07,160
have that many. You know what, when I saw when I saw what

217
00:18:07,319 --> 00:18:11,640
was left, all the gray hair
on the floor, it really made me

218
00:18:11,359 --> 00:18:17,240
I felt young again. Really,
yeah, I feel younger now. Well

219
00:18:17,240 --> 00:18:22,720
that's good, Viria. Yeah,
wow, you sound like it when you

220
00:18:22,720 --> 00:18:25,400
say it. Yeah, yeah,
I got a little pep in my step.

221
00:18:26,160 --> 00:18:29,599
Yeah. Nice. Just don't go
commit it in crimes. I'll try

222
00:18:29,599 --> 00:18:32,839
not to buy a Harley or something. Yeah, well the Harley's, yeah,

223
00:18:32,880 --> 00:18:34,440
it's on layaway. But yeah,
I don't know. I'll think about

224
00:18:34,440 --> 00:18:40,519
that. But anyway, thanks so
much. All right, no problem,

225
00:18:40,640 --> 00:18:42,480
We'll be talking to you next week. Talk to you soon, buddy.

226
00:18:44,039 --> 00:18:47,920
All right, everyone, So a
little bit about our guest. Butch has

227
00:18:48,119 --> 00:18:53,559
been an independent researcher since nineteen eighty
nine, when he, along with four

228
00:18:53,599 --> 00:19:00,559
other people, witnessed the UFO of
unbelievable size quietly hovering above a mountain in

229
00:19:00,680 --> 00:19:04,640
Tucson, Arizona. And it was
totally silent. And that's one of the

230
00:19:04,680 --> 00:19:10,000
things that baffled me the most about
my own sighting is that it was silent.

231
00:19:10,880 --> 00:19:15,319
It was burnt copper and color,
and at least three football fields in

232
00:19:15,440 --> 00:19:22,480
length. While Butch began his own
investigation into the UFO phenomena on that very

233
00:19:22,559 --> 00:19:26,240
day, he joined Muffon in two
thousand and seven, and he was able

234
00:19:26,279 --> 00:19:33,440
to dig deeper into the past and
existing cases and pursue even more on site

235
00:19:33,519 --> 00:19:37,319
investigations. But his research was still
lacking something and it wasn't getting to the

236
00:19:37,359 --> 00:19:44,720
crucial answers that he was seeking.
It was this time to go about his

237
00:19:44,799 --> 00:19:48,240
work in a different manner, and
after almost a year of serious reflection and

238
00:19:48,279 --> 00:19:53,359
consideration, Butch started UFO Research Center
of Pennsylvania in two thousand and nine,

239
00:19:55,000 --> 00:19:59,200
and he brought together some of the
best like minded and longtime researchers he could

240
00:19:59,200 --> 00:20:02,480
find. We'll talk more about that, and so hang on just a minute.

241
00:20:02,519 --> 00:20:37,279
We'll be right back with our guest, Butch Witkowski. Welcome to the

242
00:20:37,319 --> 00:20:44,480
show. But thanks for having me
on. Thank you. And there's another

243
00:20:44,519 --> 00:20:47,799
thing sometimes, you know, I
probably shouldn't bring it up at all,

244
00:20:47,799 --> 00:20:52,000
but we almost didn't get this thing
together. That's the thing about live shows.

245
00:20:52,119 --> 00:20:56,559
You know, anything can happen.
And my skype wasn't talking to your

246
00:20:56,640 --> 00:21:02,480
skype and phone issues we're looking uh, on and on and on, but

247
00:21:02,559 --> 00:21:07,079
we did it. We're here.
Yeah, got that solved, that's right.

248
00:21:07,559 --> 00:21:12,759
So Butch, I always look around
for, you know, different people

249
00:21:12,799 --> 00:21:19,319
in the UFO field, and your
background was fascinating. I watched a leasure

250
00:21:19,559 --> 00:21:22,680
on YouTube and thought you'd be interesting
to have in the show. And I

251
00:21:22,759 --> 00:21:26,920
always like like to say, it
doesn't have to be someone totally mainstream.

252
00:21:26,960 --> 00:21:33,119
It's always fun to have different views, and it's you know, it's one

253
00:21:33,119 --> 00:21:37,000
of the reasons I love doing the
show. So let's why don't you tell

254
00:21:37,039 --> 00:21:41,400
the listener your background. I just
told the story of how you got interested

255
00:21:41,480 --> 00:21:45,240
in UFOs, But let's hear your
your background. You you were involved in

256
00:21:45,599 --> 00:21:51,119
criminal investigation or something like that in
the past, law enforcement and then uh,

257
00:21:51,599 --> 00:21:55,079
after the siding, UH, I
took an interest in trying to find

258
00:21:55,079 --> 00:21:57,920
out what I actually witnessed there and
to sound with others. I should mention

259
00:21:59,000 --> 00:22:00,400
that every siding I've ever had,
I've never been alone, so I know

260
00:22:00,480 --> 00:22:07,720
I'm not crazy. And like you
said, I just I was just needing

261
00:22:07,759 --> 00:22:11,880
to go about it a different way. I wasn't getting the answers I wanted.

262
00:22:11,480 --> 00:22:17,799
And after spending a small fortune on
a library and all this other stuff

263
00:22:17,839 --> 00:22:19,680
that you need to do on the
internet and you know, talking to people

264
00:22:19,720 --> 00:22:22,720
and going to conferences and this and
the other thing, I decided to start

265
00:22:22,759 --> 00:22:29,680
the UFO Research Center. And we
started in two thousand and nine with one

266
00:22:29,720 --> 00:22:33,480
group. We now have twelve groups, two in Europe and ten in this

267
00:22:33,559 --> 00:22:41,160
country. Florida, Georgia, Utah, Oklahoma, a name of you.

268
00:22:41,119 --> 00:22:47,319
All the researchers involved are all longtime
researchers, either you know, on their

269
00:22:47,319 --> 00:22:53,240
own or with mofon. They encompass
current and former police officers. We have

270
00:22:53,240 --> 00:22:59,720
a federal judge, we have photographic
analysts, we have psychiatrists, we have

271
00:23:00,720 --> 00:23:08,960
private detectives, we have abduction research
specialists, and we do it a little

272
00:23:10,000 --> 00:23:15,400
differently than most groups because what we
try to do is prove that something happened

273
00:23:15,640 --> 00:23:19,279
or didn't happen forensically, because if
it couldn't happen forensically, then it didn't

274
00:23:19,319 --> 00:23:23,440
happen. So if somebody tells me
that they saw something above the trees had

275
00:23:23,440 --> 00:23:26,079
about one thousand feet and then I
look at the weather and I find out

276
00:23:26,119 --> 00:23:30,920
that there was no visibility whatsoever.
It was a blowing snowstorm, you pretty

277
00:23:30,000 --> 00:23:34,240
much know it was. You know
it up story. But when you go

278
00:23:34,359 --> 00:23:41,279
out and you spend a day or
two or three on a case on site,

279
00:23:41,799 --> 00:23:45,240
and we have two mobile units here
in the state, they're fully equipped.

280
00:23:45,400 --> 00:23:47,160
A matter of fact, we just
replaced the one. We got a

281
00:23:47,160 --> 00:23:52,119
brand spank a new one and they
have everything in them from you know,

282
00:23:52,240 --> 00:23:59,839
built in laptops and internet connections,
radar, every type of investigative tool that

283
00:23:59,880 --> 00:24:02,240
you can need on the scene of
anything. I don't care if it's a

284
00:24:02,279 --> 00:24:07,200
paranormal event or a UFO event or
a cryptozoology event. We have all the

285
00:24:07,240 --> 00:24:08,920
equipment on there. The only difference
between the truck and the East coast on

286
00:24:08,960 --> 00:24:12,279
the East end of Pennsylvania sorry,
which is parked in front of my place,

287
00:24:12,359 --> 00:24:15,279
the one that's out in the West
end of Pennsylvania is that we have

288
00:24:15,400 --> 00:24:22,240
repelling gear in this truck and that
other truck has dive gear because he's a

289
00:24:22,240 --> 00:24:26,799
certified diver. Other than that,
the trucks are equipped the same. We

290
00:24:26,880 --> 00:24:33,000
have our own personal radio channel channel
well we have actually have six, and

291
00:24:33,039 --> 00:24:40,079
they're regulated. Everything's either military grade
or police grade in the units, and

292
00:24:40,400 --> 00:24:44,799
it really works out very well because
I can go, well, we just

293
00:24:45,160 --> 00:24:48,599
took a fast trip down to Virginia
to investigate some body parts that were found,

294
00:24:51,079 --> 00:24:52,519
and we had everything to do what
we had to do, including take

295
00:24:52,640 --> 00:24:57,119
DNA and everything else. So,
I mean, there's very few groups I

296
00:24:57,160 --> 00:25:00,559
would say probably maybe, I don't
think there's any out there to do that.

297
00:25:03,319 --> 00:25:07,559
Everybody kind of does the old talk
to the person that made the report.

298
00:25:07,839 --> 00:25:10,799
Some look at the area, so
some never go to the area.

299
00:25:11,640 --> 00:25:21,119
Cameras we have infrared, we have
television grade video. All our cameras are

300
00:25:21,200 --> 00:25:26,799
Nikon or our computers are Panasonic tough
books. So we have canopies, we

301
00:25:26,839 --> 00:25:29,400
have tents we can set up,
we have tables, chairs, I mean,

302
00:25:29,440 --> 00:25:32,079
we've got everything we need. We
can go out. We can actually

303
00:25:32,079 --> 00:25:37,119
spend seven days in the field without
leaving the truck. Wow, Now where

304
00:25:37,160 --> 00:25:40,960
did where did the money come from
to to get these babies on the road?

305
00:25:41,799 --> 00:25:45,839
My pocket. Really it is privately
funded. Yes, we don't take

306
00:25:47,519 --> 00:25:53,400
donations. We don't. We don't
solicit any donations. And I did that

307
00:25:53,440 --> 00:25:59,480
for a reason. You know,
once you start asking for donations, are

308
00:25:59,519 --> 00:26:03,400
people you a donor? It's really
giving you some serious money. You're kind

309
00:26:03,400 --> 00:26:07,279
of beholden to somebody. And I
don't ever want that to be said about

310
00:26:07,359 --> 00:26:11,119
us that you know, well,
the only reason we're agreeing with him is

311
00:26:11,119 --> 00:26:12,319
because he gave him a check for
a thousand dollars or something like that.

312
00:26:12,319 --> 00:26:18,680
I don't ever want to hear that
sounds like campaign contributions. Yeah, so

313
00:26:18,519 --> 00:26:25,200
we do it on our own.
Now, we do take old equipment that

314
00:26:25,240 --> 00:26:26,920
people don't use anymore, because we
do have a couple of folks in our

315
00:26:26,960 --> 00:26:30,880
group that they just can't afford to
go out and buy equipment. So if

316
00:26:30,880 --> 00:26:33,839
somebody wants to donate an old camera
or an old tape player or something,

317
00:26:34,000 --> 00:26:37,200
a video camera or something like that, we'll take that and send it to

318
00:26:37,240 --> 00:26:41,400
them. But that's the that's the
only type of donations we've ever taken.

319
00:26:41,440 --> 00:26:45,680
I think we took two cameras and
one video camera, and I think somebody

320
00:26:45,759 --> 00:26:49,119
sent us a bunch of star maps
one time, So I have pretty much

321
00:26:49,119 --> 00:26:53,400
all we've ever taken. And I'm
really not really not into that. I

322
00:26:53,400 --> 00:26:57,200
mean, there's always there's always bad
vibes with that, and I just don't

323
00:26:57,200 --> 00:27:00,720
want to get involved in that drama. Yeah, okay, Now, if

324
00:27:00,759 --> 00:27:03,720
anyone wants to call in, I
do believe our phone is working. You

325
00:27:03,759 --> 00:27:07,119
can call and ask the guests a
question. If you're listening live, you

326
00:27:07,160 --> 00:27:11,480
can jump excuse me, jump in
the chat room as well and ask a

327
00:27:11,559 --> 00:27:17,559
question. The phone number is six
three nine six seven four three. Oh.

328
00:27:17,559 --> 00:27:22,359
Where do you get your your calls
on? How does someone get a

329
00:27:22,359 --> 00:27:30,640
hold of you that has witnessed something
we have a website www. Dot U

330
00:27:30,720 --> 00:27:33,759
four cop dot com and there's a
contact thing at the bottom of the page

331
00:27:33,759 --> 00:27:40,039
where they can send in their report
or if they just want information we'll do

332
00:27:40,200 --> 00:27:45,880
We'll we'll analyze photographs for people.
We'll research our databases for something maybe somebody's

333
00:27:45,920 --> 00:27:52,559
looking for from the past or or
present. Tell people where they can get

334
00:27:52,559 --> 00:27:56,279
stuff. I mean, you know, we operate a little differently. We're

335
00:27:56,319 --> 00:28:02,759
pretty much open to everybody, will
help anybody. We've traveled pretty much all

336
00:28:02,799 --> 00:28:07,920
over the eastern half of the country, and we do conferences. We don't

337
00:28:07,960 --> 00:28:11,079
charge for that, and we do
a lot of speaking engagements. We don't

338
00:28:11,160 --> 00:28:15,759
charge for that, so it works
out very well. I mean, I

339
00:28:15,759 --> 00:28:23,519
think that the group's years past got
away from dealing with the public except for

340
00:28:25,440 --> 00:28:29,000
you know, you know what I'm
saying. They more or less deal with

341
00:28:29,559 --> 00:28:32,480
the next book they're going to write
or the next white paper they're going to

342
00:28:32,559 --> 00:28:37,359
print, and they kind of left
that getting really involved with the case that

343
00:28:37,440 --> 00:28:42,559
kind of went by the wayside.
M H. So let's hear it as

344
00:28:42,559 --> 00:28:49,680
a situation where you have used some
of this equipment in your trucks and in

345
00:28:51,000 --> 00:28:56,079
trying to solve the situation. Well, a lot of times they are.

346
00:28:57,359 --> 00:29:00,440
You know, let's they were going
out and we're going to do a star

347
00:29:00,480 --> 00:29:04,799
watch. You know, we'll set
up canopies, table, get our computers

348
00:29:04,839 --> 00:29:08,680
out and set up all the cameras, get the infrared out, the get

349
00:29:08,720 --> 00:29:15,079
everything out we need. And that's
pretty much done at almost everything we go

350
00:29:15,200 --> 00:29:17,680
to. Not so much that we'll
set up cameras, but if we think

351
00:29:17,680 --> 00:29:22,799
that, you know, an individual
seeing something, you know, weekly or

352
00:29:22,839 --> 00:29:27,839
monthly, or a certain time of
the day or during a certain type of

353
00:29:27,880 --> 00:29:32,519
weather. We've gone out in snowstorms
already where a guy said he kept seeing

354
00:29:32,519 --> 00:29:34,240
flashing lights off in the distance.
So we went out and we sat in

355
00:29:34,240 --> 00:29:38,000
the truck and we watched, and
we got our photographs and went in there

356
00:29:38,000 --> 00:29:42,680
and told me he was watching a
tower flashing red. And you know the

357
00:29:42,759 --> 00:29:48,240
thing, I live on top of
a mountain in another mountain over there is

358
00:29:48,319 --> 00:29:52,599
a tower that's flashing and when it's
like snow or something like that, the

359
00:29:52,720 --> 00:29:56,359
light really does carry. So I
totally understand. But you would think that

360
00:29:56,400 --> 00:30:00,799
if you live there, that you
be used to that. Yeah, and

361
00:30:00,799 --> 00:30:06,160
the guy lived there for like thirty
years, so either he really wasn't paying

362
00:30:06,160 --> 00:30:10,400
attention, or he never looked in
that direction before. We've recently gone on.

363
00:30:10,480 --> 00:30:11,799
We have a lot of sightings right
now, a lot of reports,

364
00:30:11,920 --> 00:30:18,240
not sidings, but reports in Pennsylvania
of a cryptid type of creature that we've

365
00:30:18,240 --> 00:30:22,599
already had one expedition. We got
three, four six more scheduled in different

366
00:30:22,599 --> 00:30:26,319
parts of PA. Most of them
are occurring in central Pennsylvania of people seeing

367
00:30:26,440 --> 00:30:33,839
this unknown creature of sorts. And
when we went out there, their technology

368
00:30:33,920 --> 00:30:38,279
was beat because the woods were so
thick that I had one of my guys

369
00:30:38,359 --> 00:30:41,880
walk in five steps and I lost
him, so cameras would have been useless.

370
00:30:41,880 --> 00:30:44,880
So it was just one of those
sit for a couple of days and

371
00:30:44,960 --> 00:30:48,599
listened and see if we could pick
up anything that way. And we walked

372
00:30:48,599 --> 00:30:52,079
around with thermal imaging devices which we
have on the trucks, and the thermal

373
00:30:52,119 --> 00:30:56,440
cameras picked up nothing. So I
thought that kind of strange, being that

374
00:30:56,480 --> 00:30:59,839
I was in the middle of forty
five hundred acres of prime game land,

375
00:31:00,200 --> 00:31:04,440
just teething with animals, and we
heard nothing, saw nothing, didn't hear

376
00:31:04,440 --> 00:31:07,599
one sound, had nothing recorded on
any of the cameras that we did have.

377
00:31:07,720 --> 00:31:11,160
Up like the go pros and stuff. Yep. So now we went

378
00:31:11,200 --> 00:31:15,359
a little different this time. We
got we just got cameras and two new

379
00:31:15,400 --> 00:31:21,240
cameras. They're surveillance cameras and they'll
take a photograph every half second and they

380
00:31:21,279 --> 00:31:25,079
cover one hundred and fifty degree angle
wide angle. So with two of those

381
00:31:25,119 --> 00:31:29,720
we should be able to pick up
pretty large piece of real estate and photograph

382
00:31:29,759 --> 00:31:34,440
it. Now. I heard Stan
was talking to Stan Gordon and there's a

383
00:31:34,720 --> 00:31:38,440
you know, he was saying,
how many different like cryptic things are going

384
00:31:38,480 --> 00:31:47,279
on in Pennsylvania And this one particular
person that was reporting this unusual. I

385
00:31:47,759 --> 00:31:52,119
think that's what you used. What
can you describe what they thought they were

386
00:31:52,160 --> 00:31:56,519
seeing? Oh? Well, they
every report we have, everybody describes the

387
00:31:56,559 --> 00:32:00,960
same thing. We don't have anybody
that veers off from this description that we

388
00:32:00,000 --> 00:32:06,799
started back in July of twenty fourteen. Seven to eight foot tall, massive

389
00:32:06,920 --> 00:32:14,640
chest, muscular arms, with hands, howk dog's leg, very thin waisted,

390
00:32:15,160 --> 00:32:19,960
wolf like head, glowing yellow eyes, and it stands its ground,

391
00:32:20,000 --> 00:32:23,359
It does not run, it does
not hide. And they're all saying the

392
00:32:23,400 --> 00:32:28,160
same thing, and there's no way
this could be some type of hoax Nope,

393
00:32:28,319 --> 00:32:31,559
no way. These people have no
idea. And what really set me

394
00:32:31,599 --> 00:32:35,640
straight on that in the very beginning
of the research, which is going into

395
00:32:35,640 --> 00:32:39,559
its third year now, is the
fact that I found it reports exact reports,

396
00:32:39,759 --> 00:32:43,480
but I could match up against the
report that I got two months ago

397
00:32:44,000 --> 00:32:49,440
from eighteen sixty five in western Pennsylvania. Jeez. Now someone posted up on

398
00:32:49,480 --> 00:32:53,000
the message board the Jersey Devil.
Does that have anything to do with this?

399
00:32:53,640 --> 00:32:58,319
No, totally, totally different.
This is more I saw somebody just

400
00:32:58,359 --> 00:33:04,359
posted werewolf. Yeah, you could
probably get it close to more of a

401
00:33:04,400 --> 00:33:10,319
werewolf or maybe a skin walker,
because you know, like Bigfoot, they

402
00:33:10,440 --> 00:33:15,200
hide, they don't want to be
seen this thing if you see it.

403
00:33:15,279 --> 00:33:19,160
And like the last guy they saw
one, he was just walking. And

404
00:33:19,160 --> 00:33:21,880
and they all take place in a
state park. No place outside of a

405
00:33:21,920 --> 00:33:24,400
state park do we have any These
are all taking place in heavily wooded areas,

406
00:33:25,960 --> 00:33:30,400
game areas and state open park areas, which are very large parks.

407
00:33:31,039 --> 00:33:37,160
And the last guy was standing less
than thirty feet away when he saw it,

408
00:33:37,880 --> 00:33:40,759
and it never took his eyes off
him. He kept his eyes on

409
00:33:40,799 --> 00:33:45,160
it, and he started backing out, and it just stared at him.

410
00:33:45,160 --> 00:33:49,839
It just followed him all the way
out the trail with its eyes. And

411
00:33:50,400 --> 00:33:52,880
I mean this guy still shakes some
shamers when he talks to me about it,

412
00:33:52,920 --> 00:33:59,039
so I can't imagine seeing So you
know, well, I'm hoped.

413
00:33:59,119 --> 00:34:01,400
I'm hoping to see something like that, but I just don't really, to

414
00:34:01,440 --> 00:34:05,720
be honest with you and your listeners, I don't have any idea what I'm

415
00:34:05,759 --> 00:34:08,159
looking at or what I'm looking for, because, number one, you know,

416
00:34:08,199 --> 00:34:14,119
there's protocols for investigating the paranormal.
There are protocols for investigating the UFO

417
00:34:14,239 --> 00:34:19,639
siding. There's no protocol for investigating
anything like this right at all. Yeah,

418
00:34:19,840 --> 00:34:23,639
and you know, the indigenous population
of the United States, the Cherokee

419
00:34:23,719 --> 00:34:30,559
especially used you know, the wolf
is mostly their sightings as a wolf creature

420
00:34:30,079 --> 00:34:36,960
with their skin walkers. So and
skin walkers are not very nice. I

421
00:34:37,000 --> 00:34:40,119
mean, they're very dangerous from what
we've gathered from thost folks out there in

422
00:34:40,159 --> 00:34:46,239
Oklahoma and from what we've read up
on and you know what it is,

423
00:34:46,400 --> 00:34:50,920
I have no idea. I'm trying
to keep an open mind about it and

424
00:34:51,239 --> 00:34:52,840
until I get something on film,
which is probably all I'm going to be

425
00:34:52,880 --> 00:34:58,920
able to do. I really don't
even know what I'm looking for now.

426
00:34:59,039 --> 00:35:07,519
Was there any new American culture in
that area of skinwalk in Pennsylvania? We

427
00:35:07,599 --> 00:35:12,800
had no white men in Pennsylvania until
seventeen fifty four. Up until then,

428
00:35:12,840 --> 00:35:17,440
this was Indian territory. There were
I believe nine tribes. Susquehannock were the

429
00:35:17,440 --> 00:35:29,719
biggest. They were Iroquois, Mohawk, Susqualantic, Delaware. So the Susquehantic

430
00:35:29,760 --> 00:35:32,599
were the biggest. They were the
warningest tribes. They were war with everybody.

431
00:35:34,519 --> 00:35:40,400
And you know, it's so the
place is full of burial grounds.

432
00:35:40,760 --> 00:35:46,119
And when we contacted people indigenous out
in Oklahoma and talked to a medicine man

433
00:35:45,840 --> 00:35:52,320
and a chief, they told us
that, you know, being that the

434
00:35:52,360 --> 00:35:59,360
ground was just loaded with burial sites, that you could be dealing with a

435
00:35:59,440 --> 00:36:07,000
skin walk sure that is basically guarding
over those sites. And he warned us

436
00:36:07,039 --> 00:36:10,280
right up front, don't touch anything, don't take anything. If you do

437
00:36:10,360 --> 00:36:14,960
find something, don't take it,
leave a a And they sent us,

438
00:36:15,079 --> 00:36:17,239
they sent us some stuff to help
protect us, which I have no idea

439
00:36:17,280 --> 00:36:22,280
what that's all about. But we
will do what they say, and only

440
00:36:22,320 --> 00:36:24,599
because I have no idea what to
do. I mean, I'm just I'm

441
00:36:24,599 --> 00:36:29,639
out there throwing technology at something that
I don't even know I'm throwing it at.

442
00:36:29,880 --> 00:36:35,280
I have no idea. Excuse me, pardon me. So we we

443
00:36:35,440 --> 00:36:38,320
try to stick you know this,
this kind of thing really fascinates me,

444
00:36:38,360 --> 00:36:44,000
and we do try to stick more
to the UFO topic because we have you

445
00:36:44,079 --> 00:36:46,360
know, a lot of people listen
to the show for that particular reason.

446
00:36:46,519 --> 00:36:51,400
But I don't care if we you
know, spin off a little bit here

447
00:36:51,440 --> 00:36:54,880
and there and things like that.
Really is interesting to me, and it

448
00:36:55,079 --> 00:37:00,719
just to me, it just goes
along along with UFOs in a way that

449
00:37:00,960 --> 00:37:07,840
is just another unexplainable you know.
And like one person said to me,

450
00:37:07,760 --> 00:37:13,559
how do we know that it's not
something from a UFO or a from the

451
00:37:13,599 --> 00:37:19,519
paranormal? Right now? Linking the
paranormal into one big subject, which would

452
00:37:19,559 --> 00:37:24,000
be ufology, cryptozoology, and of
course ghost hunting is not so far away.

453
00:37:25,519 --> 00:37:30,159
There have been paranormal events that have
taken place where lights have been seeing

454
00:37:30,239 --> 00:37:34,559
the sky. There have been lights
seeing the sky where something strange took place

455
00:37:34,599 --> 00:37:40,400
on the ground, whether it was
a crypto siding or a paranormal event.

456
00:37:42,000 --> 00:37:45,039
So I don't think they're that far
apart anymore. I mean, at one

457
00:37:45,079 --> 00:37:50,400
time they had held their own separate
little rooms, but I just don't see

458
00:37:50,400 --> 00:37:55,079
that anymore. I mean, more
and more researchers are trying to connect one

459
00:37:55,119 --> 00:38:00,280
with the other where I just read
an article where a ghost hunting group that's

460
00:38:00,320 --> 00:38:04,239
all they do is hunt ghosts.
They are now setting up cameras facing the

461
00:38:04,280 --> 00:38:07,559
sky while they're in doing what they're
doing, and they're trying to see if

462
00:38:07,679 --> 00:38:13,639
anything goes on in the place that
they're investigating inside, if anything's gone on

463
00:38:13,679 --> 00:38:19,760
the sky outside, which I thought
was a pretty neat trick. Excuse me.

464
00:38:20,039 --> 00:38:24,599
One of the things that I think
UFOs gets a little bit of a

465
00:38:24,639 --> 00:38:30,039
separation. Now. I do realize
there's a heck of a lot of unexplained

466
00:38:30,039 --> 00:38:34,440
things. I've had a few things
happened in my life that were unexplainable that

467
00:38:34,519 --> 00:38:39,960
we're really interesting still are. But
I think UFOs are a little different in

468
00:38:40,000 --> 00:38:45,119
a way that you know, the
mass sightings, the radar returns all that,

469
00:38:46,079 --> 00:38:54,000
whatever it is that there seem to
be so much closer to grasp than

470
00:38:54,400 --> 00:39:01,199
some of the other things that we
encounter. White ghosts and for sure,

471
00:39:01,239 --> 00:39:05,639
and one of the biggest things is
I mean, you can look at tons

472
00:39:05,679 --> 00:39:09,119
of evidence on UFOs. I mean, we still get on the average about

473
00:39:09,239 --> 00:39:15,239
seven or eight reports of glowing orange
orbs in our state. We've got a

474
00:39:15,320 --> 00:39:21,840
very good picture one which was taken
by a student at a university. We

475
00:39:21,920 --> 00:39:30,119
have it's just triangles, triangles and
orbs right now. In the last I

476
00:39:30,119 --> 00:39:37,320
would say three years are the most
that we're getting reports on. The last

477
00:39:37,320 --> 00:39:40,159
one being one of my guys,
who's actually a police officer, was coming

478
00:39:40,159 --> 00:39:45,280
home from work and he spotted one
crossing the highway above him, and you

479
00:39:45,320 --> 00:39:49,880
know, turned around and tried to
follow it as long as he could,

480
00:39:50,119 --> 00:39:58,800
moving very slowly or I know,
this was a triangle and very large,

481
00:39:59,679 --> 00:40:07,079
and and it just he said it
was so large it had to make a

482
00:40:07,119 --> 00:40:09,360
noise. But it made no noise
whatsoever, because he stopped the car and

483
00:40:09,400 --> 00:40:13,079
got out right along the highway and
he said, I didn't hear a thing.

484
00:40:13,639 --> 00:40:15,639
And he said, it passed right
over top of me. And it

485
00:40:15,719 --> 00:40:25,280
had two very small lights in the
middle, which really weren't any particular colors

486
00:40:25,280 --> 00:40:28,920
that it was just it was like
looking at an old lava lamp, if

487
00:40:28,960 --> 00:40:35,079
you remember those. And then not
too long after that siding, we had

488
00:40:35,119 --> 00:40:39,159
another one in Exeter, Pennsylvania,
which is right down the road from the

489
00:40:39,199 --> 00:40:45,519
other siding, of a similar object, again a triangle, but it was

490
00:40:45,559 --> 00:40:49,519
followed by three orbs above it,
and the orbs were red in color,

491
00:40:50,880 --> 00:40:54,119
and they got some pictures, but
they used a camera phone camera and it

492
00:40:54,159 --> 00:40:59,320
didn't really really outline the triangle.
You could see the you could see the

493
00:40:59,440 --> 00:41:06,079
orbs, but not make out the
the triangle too. Well. Yeah,

494
00:41:06,320 --> 00:41:10,599
now there's there was some up on
the chat room that people saying that one

495
00:41:10,599 --> 00:41:15,199
guy says, I missed the saucers. I love that. Well, you

496
00:41:15,239 --> 00:41:19,000
know what, there there hasn't been. I haven't seen or read of any

497
00:41:19,039 --> 00:41:23,800
reports of saucers in years. I
mean they're either coming through as cigar shape,

498
00:41:24,599 --> 00:41:35,320
triangle, squares, orbs. Another
one that started popping up about two

499
00:41:35,440 --> 00:41:44,760
years ago was a long flat rectangle. So I don't you know, the

500
00:41:45,119 --> 00:41:49,239
classic saucer. I haven't seen one
of those reports in years. I've seen

501
00:41:49,239 --> 00:41:52,480
some photographs that were taken are supposedly
taken recently, but when you look at

502
00:41:52,480 --> 00:41:55,320
the photographs, you can you know
it don't take the five minutes to figure

503
00:41:55,320 --> 00:42:00,679
out that they were photoshopped. Wow, you know that what's the sighting I

504
00:42:00,719 --> 00:42:06,719
had in two thousand and six was
definitely a disc And you know, you're

505
00:42:06,800 --> 00:42:08,400
right. I've talked about that a
number of times that it seems like,

506
00:42:08,440 --> 00:42:13,360
you know, maybe that's the old
model and the new model is the triangle,

507
00:42:14,719 --> 00:42:19,280
this year's model. But no,
it's really strange. I think it's

508
00:42:19,639 --> 00:42:22,760
strange that it would change or that
would be seeing something different, and that

509
00:42:24,119 --> 00:42:30,840
could be something simple like if we
are being visited from another species out there.

510
00:42:30,920 --> 00:42:36,159
Let's just say. I never like
to say we are definitely it's definitely

511
00:42:36,239 --> 00:42:39,559
extraterrestrial. I'd say it's most likely
it could be. But well, you

512
00:42:39,559 --> 00:42:44,480
know, when you investigate this stuff
after a while, you better have a

513
00:42:44,519 --> 00:42:50,880
really open mind because I know I've
read things, I've seen things, I've

514
00:42:50,880 --> 00:42:52,960
been involved in things that for the
life of me, with all the technology

515
00:42:53,000 --> 00:42:57,880
we have, I can't figure out. Nobody else can either. And I've

516
00:42:57,960 --> 00:43:01,039
got sixty four people that I can
show this to or talk to about something,

517
00:43:01,079 --> 00:43:05,039
and if they can't come up with
anything, and I can't come up

518
00:43:05,079 --> 00:43:08,320
with anything, you know, it's
just another thing. It's unexplainable. But

519
00:43:08,400 --> 00:43:13,440
when you see something travel across the
sky from horizon to horizon and zigzagging all

520
00:43:13,480 --> 00:43:15,960
the way in a matter of an
eyeblink or two. That's not ours.

521
00:43:16,360 --> 00:43:22,079
We don't have anything that fast.
Or you're standing there talking with a state

522
00:43:22,119 --> 00:43:24,199
trooper and he said, oh,
what's that. You see something zigzagging and

523
00:43:24,239 --> 00:43:28,639
it stops, drops, makes a
U, and comes back up and then

524
00:43:28,639 --> 00:43:31,199
continues on the way, and he
doesn't think anything of it because he sees

525
00:43:31,239 --> 00:43:34,800
them all the time. That's the
first time I ever seen one in my

526
00:43:34,800 --> 00:43:39,159
life like that. So you know, it's whatever's out there, whether it

527
00:43:39,199 --> 00:43:45,760
be ufology, the paranormal cryptosology.
We have answers for some things, and

528
00:43:45,840 --> 00:43:51,840
we have others that we have no
answers for. Yeah, yeah, I

529
00:43:51,920 --> 00:43:55,199
know, And you know that's one
of the main reasons I'd like to do

530
00:43:55,280 --> 00:44:01,280
the show is just too I'm not
thinking that it's most likely that I will

531
00:44:01,320 --> 00:44:08,360
ever know what the heck is going
on, but it's always the interesting part

532
00:44:08,440 --> 00:44:15,440
is to explore here people's sightings and
also people's ideas on what they may be

533
00:44:15,519 --> 00:44:19,559
seeing or what they possibly could be
that that's one of the things that really

534
00:44:19,639 --> 00:44:23,639
keeps me in it. Yeah,
and I like calling myself a skeptical believer,

535
00:44:24,519 --> 00:44:28,599
because you know, without the evidence
of proof, you're just telling me

536
00:44:28,639 --> 00:44:36,199
another story. And I've heard and
read thousands of those, so you know,

537
00:44:37,559 --> 00:44:42,639
I try to stay on a level
path with this. You know,

538
00:44:42,679 --> 00:44:44,719
it could be this, it could
be that, or it could not be

539
00:44:44,800 --> 00:44:46,400
this, or it could not be
that, and then you know, make

540
00:44:46,480 --> 00:44:50,800
up my own mind, write my
report, and that's it. Now,

541
00:44:50,840 --> 00:44:55,559
why while we're on this subject along
these lines, why do you think someone

542
00:44:55,679 --> 00:45:00,960
in the science field doesn't want to
try to really look at this hard.

543
00:45:00,000 --> 00:45:04,159
Now, there are some people,
but it's few and far in between.

544
00:45:06,440 --> 00:45:10,760
Well, it's the same, most
likely, the same reason that the government's

545
00:45:10,800 --> 00:45:14,679
never going to disclose anything. I
mean, I know there's a lot of

546
00:45:14,719 --> 00:45:16,559
people that say, oh, well, disclosure is going to happen next week,

547
00:45:16,599 --> 00:45:21,400
next month, next year. You're
never going to have any disclosure because

548
00:45:21,719 --> 00:45:24,320
for them to disclose, they'd have
to admit to lying for the last fifty

549
00:45:24,400 --> 00:45:28,639
or so years. Yeah, and
the same thing happens with scientists who've been

550
00:45:28,639 --> 00:45:32,559
pooh pooing it now for whatever time. If it came to those guys,

551
00:45:32,599 --> 00:45:39,079
their credibility would be shot in a
millisecond. So it's easier to stand there

552
00:45:39,119 --> 00:45:44,320
and be a skeptic than it is
to be a approver of truth and evidence.

553
00:45:45,679 --> 00:45:51,239
And even then when you do come
out with proof and evidence, somebody

554
00:45:51,280 --> 00:45:52,559
will come after you and say you
manufactured it. You know, it's just

555
00:45:52,599 --> 00:45:57,760
a big hassle. Yeah, so
I think, you know, I often

556
00:45:57,840 --> 00:46:00,119
laugh people say, well, one, do you think they'll be disclosure?

557
00:46:00,159 --> 00:46:04,840
I said, when somebody one of
those things lands in some farmer's yard and

558
00:46:04,880 --> 00:46:07,880
he's smart enough to call the news
before he calls the police. Mm hmm.

559
00:46:08,280 --> 00:46:13,840
Well, you know I talked.
I had a conversation a while ago

560
00:46:13,880 --> 00:46:21,559
with doctor Melba Ketch him, you
know, the Bigfoot DNA research, and

561
00:46:21,920 --> 00:46:24,679
you know, she like just a
very nice lady by the way, and

562
00:46:25,280 --> 00:46:30,239
she just you know, threw caution
to the wind, and all her background

563
00:46:30,320 --> 00:46:37,320
in many years of her work that
she has done, she can now no

564
00:46:37,440 --> 00:46:42,920
longer testify in court you know,
many things, because she just took this

565
00:46:43,000 --> 00:46:47,320
subject seriously and that's what can that's
what can happen. And she's had death

566
00:46:47,360 --> 00:46:52,480
threats. She's had a place where
she was going to speak someone actually bombed

567
00:46:52,480 --> 00:46:55,280
it, just you know, prior
to when she was going to be there.

568
00:46:58,599 --> 00:47:06,599
So it's amazing where you know people
can just people don't want to have

569
00:47:07,039 --> 00:47:12,559
anything something big like this looked at
seriously, it seems, well, well

570
00:47:12,599 --> 00:47:16,199
they don't because I mean, first
of all, look at how many folks.

571
00:47:16,519 --> 00:47:19,519
But let me put it to you
this way. I have twelve books

572
00:47:19,519 --> 00:47:22,840
here on my shelf I'm looking at
in the monkst fifteen hundred of them.

573
00:47:22,039 --> 00:47:25,480
But there's twelve on the shelf I
keep separately. They're all written by different

574
00:47:25,480 --> 00:47:30,840
authors. They're all on Roswell crash, every one of them. Which one

575
00:47:30,840 --> 00:47:35,159
am I supposed to believe? Are
they all? Pardon me? They all

576
00:47:35,199 --> 00:47:38,079
different accountings, all different everyone is
different by a different author. So which

577
00:47:38,079 --> 00:47:45,679
one do I believe? Good point? Yeah, and you have you have

578
00:47:47,679 --> 00:47:51,159
this guy says this, and then
this guy says, well, that guy's

579
00:47:51,239 --> 00:47:53,159
nuts. This is what really happened. And then that guy says, this

580
00:47:53,239 --> 00:47:57,360
guy's crazy because that's not what happened. The first guy was right or sort

581
00:47:57,360 --> 00:48:00,840
of right. But my idea is
better. And I wonder why people are

582
00:48:00,840 --> 00:48:05,320
confused when they talk about UFOs or
they talk to people about UFOs. I

583
00:48:05,320 --> 00:48:09,199
mean, they've been fed garbage for
so long that you know, I would

584
00:48:09,199 --> 00:48:14,440
say, out of all these books, there might be a dozen or two

585
00:48:14,519 --> 00:48:17,559
that I may say would be close
to factual. And then when you find

586
00:48:17,559 --> 00:48:22,519
out that the people who wrote these
books never saw UFO or never went out

587
00:48:22,519 --> 00:48:25,440
in the field and investigated the UFO, that's a little disheartening to me.

588
00:48:28,400 --> 00:48:36,599
Yeah, I understand what you're saying, but I think there are some good

589
00:48:36,639 --> 00:48:39,320
people out there that are trying to
do about thing. Absolutely that would be

590
00:48:39,880 --> 00:48:45,679
an excellent job. Move On has
a cropload of good investigators, but they're

591
00:48:45,760 --> 00:48:51,239
kind of hampered because when they do
an investigation, that investigation ends when they

592
00:48:51,239 --> 00:48:54,039
turn it into a CMS file.
Huh. Well, and that's the end

593
00:48:54,039 --> 00:48:57,480
of it. Let's talk a little
bit about that. You know, I

594
00:48:57,480 --> 00:49:00,880
don't want to move on bash but
oh no, absolutely not. But I

595
00:49:00,920 --> 00:49:06,719
do get I actually do get a
lot of contacts from people that are that

596
00:49:06,840 --> 00:49:10,679
do feel that way and feel like
a lot of things are not available to

597
00:49:12,320 --> 00:49:16,440
you know, do more work on
and that's one of the things. But

598
00:49:16,719 --> 00:49:20,639
people have to understand that, you
know, you're talking about an organization.

599
00:49:20,679 --> 00:49:24,119
It's got a lot of folks,
and if they had to equip those people

600
00:49:24,679 --> 00:49:30,079
and get them all out in the
field, that would be tons of money

601
00:49:30,559 --> 00:49:36,599
and the independent researchers you know,
like J. C. Johnson that investigates

602
00:49:36,639 --> 00:49:39,239
paranormal things out in the four corners
of this country. I mean, he's

603
00:49:39,239 --> 00:49:45,360
self funded and he travels all over
four states. But if he was with

604
00:49:45,519 --> 00:49:49,320
mouf On or any other large group, he couldn't do that because they're not

605
00:49:49,360 --> 00:49:52,480
going to fund him to do that. You know, they wouldn't. They're

606
00:49:52,480 --> 00:49:55,719
not going to fund my ninety thousand
dollars truck with equipment out there, no

607
00:49:55,800 --> 00:50:01,840
way. So although they're and we
have Mufon members in my group, and

608
00:50:01,880 --> 00:50:05,719
they're very good and they've been there
a long time and they know what they're

609
00:50:05,760 --> 00:50:12,920
doing, but I have more.
I give them more access and the benefit

610
00:50:13,000 --> 00:50:16,840
of having the equipment they need on
the spur of the moment, which I

611
00:50:16,840 --> 00:50:22,199
don't think Mouffon can do till this
day. They couldn't when I was involved

612
00:50:22,239 --> 00:50:25,159
as a star team member and a
chief investigator. They couldn't do it then.

613
00:50:25,239 --> 00:50:29,760
I don't think they could do it
now. So when you were when

614
00:50:29,800 --> 00:50:34,599
you were an investigator, did you
ever hear any rumblings of you know,

615
00:50:34,840 --> 00:50:38,239
the possible CIA connection with Mouffon,
Well, yeah, I think that probably

616
00:50:38,280 --> 00:50:44,239
started at day number two after they
started started movefon. Look, everybody's going

617
00:50:44,320 --> 00:50:50,559
to look for something to discredit somebody. It doesn't matter. They'll say,

618
00:50:50,639 --> 00:50:58,920
you know, Mouffon's owned by Bob
Bigelow, or Moufon is a government agency

619
00:50:59,079 --> 00:51:05,280
in the Clan Distant Operation. Move
On throws away their reports. That's all

620
00:51:05,320 --> 00:51:08,000
silly, that's that's not factual.
Uh. Move On is just a big

621
00:51:08,079 --> 00:51:12,519
organization that collects a lot of data
and has a lot of investigators out there

622
00:51:12,519 --> 00:51:19,880
collecting data. So as far as
that goes, I give them kudos because

623
00:51:19,960 --> 00:51:22,239
I you know, I did it
with them, I did for them,

624
00:51:22,800 --> 00:51:24,960
and it takes a lot of work
and it's out of pocket expenses. It's

625
00:51:25,000 --> 00:51:30,679
not as much as doing it on
your own. But uh, it's uh,

626
00:51:30,880 --> 00:51:32,280
they'll be around for a long time. I mean, I know people

627
00:51:32,440 --> 00:51:36,800
saying that I've heard and I've read
on the internet that you know they're going

628
00:51:36,840 --> 00:51:45,000
to uh, you know, just
getting done. You know they're just going

629
00:51:45,039 --> 00:51:46,440
to fold. They're going to do
this and it's going to happen next month

630
00:51:46,480 --> 00:51:50,639
and next month and next month.
That's silly, it's just nonsense. This

631
00:51:50,760 --> 00:51:54,320
move On will be around a long
time. It's a good operation. How

632
00:51:54,320 --> 00:51:58,079
they how they control all those people
is beyond me. I don't know what

633
00:51:58,159 --> 00:52:01,559
they have thirty five hundred members or
something like that. It's crazy. It's

634
00:52:01,559 --> 00:52:07,440
about three of our It's crazy.
Yeah, now there was. We actually

635
00:52:07,480 --> 00:52:12,000
had a guest on the show and
he, you know, he's probably he

636
00:52:12,000 --> 00:52:17,159
does listen to the show who actually
had first hand, a first hand incident

637
00:52:17,239 --> 00:52:22,880
that happened right in front of them. Was an actual tie at one point.

638
00:52:22,400 --> 00:52:28,119
This is going back into the nineteen
eighties where a convention if if,

639
00:52:28,719 --> 00:52:31,760
if you are listening, and you
are welcome to call in and share your

640
00:52:31,800 --> 00:52:36,639
story once more. He was on
a while back. Six oh three nine

641
00:52:36,639 --> 00:52:38,639
sixty seven, four oh three zeros
the number if anyone wants to call in

642
00:52:39,199 --> 00:52:44,119
and ask our guests a question.
So I don't know, you know,

643
00:52:44,199 --> 00:52:50,039
I mean I I you know.
The thing you do here is that they

644
00:52:50,079 --> 00:52:54,679
were infiltrated or whatever because they wanted
to know what information that was being gathered

645
00:52:54,679 --> 00:52:58,480
out there. Whether that's true or
whether they'd even bother, I have no

646
00:52:58,559 --> 00:53:00,880
idea why would they bother. I
mean, they got the CIA, the

647
00:53:00,960 --> 00:53:05,360
d OD, they got spooks all
over the place. They want to find

648
00:53:05,360 --> 00:53:07,320
out something about you and me or
anybody else or any any group. But

649
00:53:07,360 --> 00:53:09,800
that's out there. They could do
that without them ever knowing about it.

650
00:53:09,840 --> 00:53:15,000
They wouldn't have to buy the business
or you know, infiltrate the business.

651
00:53:15,039 --> 00:53:17,719
They could just do it. End
the story. You know, they can

652
00:53:17,800 --> 00:53:21,480
watch all their email, they can
watch every conversation, they can listen to

653
00:53:21,480 --> 00:53:24,320
everything they're saying, and they wouldn't
know the difference. So I think that's

654
00:53:24,440 --> 00:53:29,239
just, you know, the conspiracy
theorist kind of make me crazy because I

655
00:53:30,280 --> 00:53:32,920
was just going to ask you if
I sounded like a conspirast. Well,

656
00:53:32,960 --> 00:53:36,239
you know, you could make a
conspiracy. You know, give me your

657
00:53:36,280 --> 00:53:38,920
birth date and I'll make a conspiracy
out of it. You know, you

658
00:53:38,920 --> 00:53:44,280
can make a conspiracy out of anything. But when you want to get to

659
00:53:44,320 --> 00:53:47,679
the real bottom line, you've got
to deal with fact, fact and evidence.

660
00:53:47,719 --> 00:53:51,719
That's what you need. You need
to have the evidence. You need

661
00:53:51,760 --> 00:53:55,400
to have the facts. Could it
happen, did it not happen? Go

662
00:53:55,480 --> 00:53:59,719
to the scene, talk to the
people face to face. I don't do

663
00:53:59,800 --> 00:54:06,800
any interviews with anybody unless they're out
of state or they're too far away to

664
00:54:06,840 --> 00:54:12,199
go over the internet or a biphone. I try to do everything face to

665
00:54:12,199 --> 00:54:17,360
face because I can see what they're
talking about. I can see what facts

666
00:54:17,360 --> 00:54:21,800
they're going to present. I'm looking
at them right in the eye, you

667
00:54:21,840 --> 00:54:24,119
know, and they're showing me what
they saw, where they saw it,

668
00:54:24,239 --> 00:54:27,480
and I can, you know,
do a lot of things to find out

669
00:54:27,519 --> 00:54:30,760
if that could happen or not.
That circle in their yard it's been growing

670
00:54:30,800 --> 00:54:36,719
now over the damp season for the
last two years, is mold, you

671
00:54:36,800 --> 00:54:39,480
know. I carry a sample of
it to show them, so it's not

672
00:54:39,519 --> 00:54:46,920
a crop circle or it's not a
landing side of a UFO. And you

673
00:54:46,960 --> 00:54:54,159
know, we've investigated well a little
over twenty five hundred cases now since two

674
00:54:54,199 --> 00:55:00,360
thousand and nine. Yeah, talk
to you a little bit about some of

675
00:55:00,400 --> 00:55:06,199
the cases you've investigated. But before
that, before you make the trip out

676
00:55:06,239 --> 00:55:12,760
to actually speak to someone, what
type of preliminary information do you need before

677
00:55:12,800 --> 00:55:15,639
you actually pack up your truck and
go there. Okay, Well, what

678
00:55:15,719 --> 00:55:22,480
we'll do is we'll well, of
course, take the original location and then

679
00:55:22,519 --> 00:55:24,239
we'll do a background on the location, see if there are any other sightings

680
00:55:24,280 --> 00:55:31,559
in that area, that county,
that street or whatever, and trying to

681
00:55:31,559 --> 00:55:37,760
get as much as we can historically
doing some background research from years back.

682
00:55:37,800 --> 00:55:43,679
I'll go back sometimes five or ten
years, and you know, if there

683
00:55:43,719 --> 00:55:46,599
is the same lights being seen in
the same time in the same place over

684
00:55:46,599 --> 00:55:50,880
a period of five or ten years, well then I'm probably dealing with something

685
00:55:50,920 --> 00:55:55,760
that's man made, you know,
especially when somebody gives you explicit directions like

686
00:55:58,360 --> 00:56:01,559
I see it in the northwest sky
every once a month or something like that,

687
00:56:01,719 --> 00:56:09,239
usually turns out to be either a
satellite or a a planet. And

688
00:56:09,679 --> 00:56:19,920
uh, then you have weather is
very important. And then when you get

689
00:56:19,960 --> 00:56:22,480
on the scene, you know and
you hear the story. Now did the

690
00:56:22,559 --> 00:56:25,639
story change from the time I got
the report to the time now that I'm

691
00:56:25,639 --> 00:56:30,239
on the scene. That's another kicker
that gets me, you know, the

692
00:56:30,280 --> 00:56:34,880
story changes, or we get a
meat tooism, And the meat tooism is

693
00:56:34,920 --> 00:56:37,239
the neighbor coming over when he sees
the truck parked up front says, yeah,

694
00:56:37,280 --> 00:56:43,320
I saw it, me too,
I saw it. So But background

695
00:56:43,440 --> 00:56:45,679
research is very important before you even
get to the get to the scene.

696
00:56:45,760 --> 00:56:49,719
I mean, you have to know
what you're what the background is the area

697
00:56:50,400 --> 00:56:52,199
h is there is there an air
force base or is there a testing area

698
00:56:52,239 --> 00:56:55,800
for missiles? Nearby, or is
there anything but nearby that could you know

699
00:56:55,840 --> 00:56:59,920
that could cause what they saw,
And then you just take it from there

700
00:57:00,079 --> 00:57:02,639
and then just follow up on it
and just keep going until you come to

701
00:57:02,679 --> 00:57:07,559
your conclusion. Yeah, with everything
you have invested in your time, you

702
00:57:07,679 --> 00:57:08,840
want to make sure no one's going
to waste it, that's for sure.

703
00:57:09,639 --> 00:57:14,599
Yeah. Well, and I don't. I've had it wasted. But sometimes

704
00:57:14,639 --> 00:57:17,039
the waste is good because something will
always come up where they'll say, well,

705
00:57:17,480 --> 00:57:20,639
you know the guy that owns the
bar down the street, you know,

706
00:57:20,679 --> 00:57:22,079
he saw something one time and about
and he got down to the bar,

707
00:57:22,119 --> 00:57:25,239
and you talk to that guy,
you know, and he may put

708
00:57:25,239 --> 00:57:29,320
you in a better direction, or
maybe he'll back up what the other guy

709
00:57:29,320 --> 00:57:34,480
said, or vice versa. Yeah. Right now, someone just in the

710
00:57:34,519 --> 00:57:37,679
message room wanted to know, what
are some of the cases you've investigated.

711
00:57:38,639 --> 00:57:42,760
Well, we have some active ones
right now that have been going on for

712
00:57:42,880 --> 00:57:45,840
years. I see a lot of
on your chat room about Todd cease.

713
00:57:45,880 --> 00:57:52,440
That's still an ongoing case. The
Todd Seas case started in two thousand and

714
00:57:53,320 --> 00:57:59,519
eight and we've been on it ever
since. We have a cold case unit

715
00:57:59,559 --> 00:58:06,519
that works the case and it's it's
probably the strangest case I've ever investigated on

716
00:58:06,559 --> 00:58:12,079
anything. I'm not familiar with it, and I can give you yeah,

717
00:58:12,639 --> 00:58:16,960
go ahead. Todd Cees was a
gentleman thirty four years old that one morning,

718
00:58:19,639 --> 00:58:22,639
as he did many times during pre
deer season, would get on his

719
00:58:22,719 --> 00:58:25,920
ATV and go up into the woods, very heavily wooded area in Northumberland,

720
00:58:25,920 --> 00:58:30,360
Pennsylvania and look for deer spot deer
for the coming season. He was an

721
00:58:30,400 --> 00:58:39,239
avid archer, and he was last
seen that day at one am and got

722
00:58:39,280 --> 00:58:45,159
on his ATV and took off into
the woods and told his wife people back

723
00:58:45,239 --> 00:58:52,280
like it. Yes, somebody just
correct me thirty nine okay, trying to

724
00:58:52,320 --> 00:58:58,480
remember everything about this case from the
beginning. He went into the wooded area

725
00:58:58,639 --> 00:59:02,400
and didn't return, and at two
o'clock the family got nervous and the wife

726
00:59:02,400 --> 00:59:07,480
called the police, reported and missing
family members showed up brother's father and they

727
00:59:07,519 --> 00:59:10,559
all went looking for him son trying
to find him. They couldn't find him.

728
00:59:10,599 --> 00:59:15,960
They did locate the ATV. They
saw the ATV which was approximately one

729
00:59:15,960 --> 00:59:21,800
mile from the home. They brought
They couldn't bring it back because they couldn't

730
00:59:21,800 --> 00:59:23,880
find the keys. And they wind
up towing it back later, but the

731
00:59:23,880 --> 00:59:29,000
search went on. About two hundred
and thirty five searchers we found out were

732
00:59:29,039 --> 00:59:31,639
the actual searchers that showed up,
which would have been the local police,

733
00:59:32,199 --> 00:59:38,199
three fire companies, two search dog
teams, one cadaver dog and one set

734
00:59:38,239 --> 00:59:44,320
of cadaver dogs, and one set
of bloodhounds. There was a state police

735
00:59:44,360 --> 00:59:49,880
helicopter in sky. There were state
troopers on the scene, also many people

736
00:59:49,920 --> 00:59:53,199
that knew him, a lot of
folks, relatives, everybody out looking for

737
00:59:53,280 --> 01:00:04,039
him, and nobody finds this guy
and a lot of this stuff. We

738
01:00:04,119 --> 01:00:08,280
have not posted very much on this
case on the internet because it's still ongoing,

739
01:00:09,440 --> 01:00:15,119
but everything that we have gotten on
the case, we don't rely on

740
01:00:15,159 --> 01:00:19,800
the original reporting of the case,
which was all taken from a newspaper,

741
01:00:20,320 --> 01:00:22,840
which was doctored many times and has
now been taken off the newspaper archives.

742
01:00:22,840 --> 01:00:28,920
Since we've been investigating. Everything we've
gotten so far in the last six years

743
01:00:28,960 --> 01:00:32,559
is in black and white. We've
had everything done where we didn't ask anybody

744
01:00:32,559 --> 01:00:37,840
for a phone answer. We got
everything on their letterheads. We have the

745
01:00:37,880 --> 01:00:44,159
autopsy report, we have a toxicology
report, and what happened was that they

746
01:00:44,159 --> 01:00:47,000
didn't find him the first day.
On the second day, they didn't find

747
01:00:47,079 --> 01:00:54,639
him till it was about seven something
in the evening, seven fifty four.

748
01:00:54,679 --> 01:01:01,360
I believe it was that the body
was located, he was identified and removed

749
01:01:01,360 --> 01:01:08,199
from the scene. Autopsy followed and
he was found to have died of a

750
01:01:08,239 --> 01:01:16,800
cocaine taxology overdose of cocaine. Now
kind of simple thing, right, But

751
01:01:16,920 --> 01:01:21,519
it turns out that he had no
drug abuse background. We could find no

752
01:01:21,599 --> 01:01:24,880
arrest records out in a traffic ticket. All his personal information like on the

753
01:01:24,920 --> 01:01:30,280
Social Security death site and military records, driver's license, hunting license, none

754
01:01:30,320 --> 01:01:35,039
of that even appears anymore anywhere.
He's pretty much been white, clean,

755
01:01:37,639 --> 01:01:39,280
family, doesn't talk about family.
Lied to us a couple of times.

756
01:01:39,320 --> 01:01:42,440
We caught him on that, and
it's all in black and white. I

757
01:01:42,440 --> 01:01:46,920
mean, it was emails back and
forth with family members. The carner led

758
01:01:46,960 --> 01:01:51,639
to us. The police lied to
us. Police said they were the investigating

759
01:01:51,639 --> 01:01:57,119
team. It turned out they weren't. The state police were The body was

760
01:01:57,199 --> 01:02:01,719
in How can I say this?
The body was in horrendous shape when it

761
01:02:01,760 --> 01:02:10,920
was found. It was in the
way advanced stages of decomposition. And the

762
01:02:12,000 --> 01:02:15,639
kicker is that this body was only
twenty yards from the house when it was

763
01:02:15,679 --> 01:02:21,320
found. So where did the cocaine
play into this whole thing. Well,

764
01:02:21,400 --> 01:02:24,800
that's what was given as the cause
of death. And it's a mystery because

765
01:02:24,800 --> 01:02:30,079
he had no background. No only
did he have no background, but when

766
01:02:30,079 --> 01:02:34,159
we took all the toxicology reports and
stuff that we have directly from where they

767
01:02:34,320 --> 01:02:37,960
were supposed to come from the corner, we took all out official paperwork.

768
01:02:37,039 --> 01:02:43,599
To other doctors and pathologists, they
said the amount of cocaine degraded cocaine that

769
01:02:43,639 --> 01:02:46,679
was in his body would have killed
him within a matter of a couple of

770
01:02:46,719 --> 01:02:52,559
minutes. There's no way he could
have walked from that KTV back to his

771
01:02:52,639 --> 01:02:57,800
house. And besides that, if
you have a decomposing body in the middle

772
01:02:57,840 --> 01:03:04,239
of summer laying in your back twenty
foot from your back door and fifteen feet

773
01:03:04,880 --> 01:03:07,199
from the road that all these searchers
were driving up and walking up to get

774
01:03:07,239 --> 01:03:13,960
to the search scene, didn't smell
this guy. Godaverdogs. I've worked with

775
01:03:14,000 --> 01:03:16,400
kidaverdogs. They can find a body
six foot under dirt, no problem.

776
01:03:17,039 --> 01:03:23,079
They can find a body underwater.
Soad I'm going to say this, did

777
01:03:23,119 --> 01:03:28,760
David Poladi's ever look into this?
No, do you know David? You

778
01:03:28,840 --> 01:03:30,599
know? Yeah, yeah, I
know David very well. Now David is

779
01:03:30,599 --> 01:03:36,880
more in the missing person's end of
it. This guy wasn't really a missing

780
01:03:36,880 --> 01:03:42,000
person but for I forget how many
hours now off the top of my head,

781
01:03:42,239 --> 01:03:46,480
but he U, this is a
guy whose background had nothing to do

782
01:03:46,599 --> 01:03:52,360
with drugs of any types, of
any type. And if you wanted to

783
01:03:52,440 --> 01:03:55,360
kill this guy for whatever reason in
that area, you could walk up in

784
01:03:55,400 --> 01:03:59,559
the middle of the night or when
he went up there at five am or

785
01:03:59,599 --> 01:04:01,840
whatever, and shot him in the
head and nobody would have paid any attention

786
01:04:02,000 --> 01:04:06,280
because the place is loaded with rattlesnakes. They have the Rattlesnake Round up there

787
01:04:06,280 --> 01:04:10,519
every year, So gunshots going off
day and night in those woods, it

788
01:04:10,559 --> 01:04:13,199
means nothing. Or you could have
just walked up in him and the head

789
01:04:13,199 --> 01:04:17,159
with a hammer, you know.
Yeah, So does how does this happen

790
01:04:17,800 --> 01:04:21,880
that the guy disappears and nobody sees
this guy or smells this guy? Well,

791
01:04:21,920 --> 01:04:25,400
then the family said, well it
rained that day. Well I was

792
01:04:25,719 --> 01:04:28,159
quite quick to pronounce, you know, I could check that in a matter

793
01:04:28,199 --> 01:04:30,880
of minutes checked that and I said, yeah, it did rain that day.

794
01:04:30,039 --> 01:04:32,519
She said, that's why it didn't
smell him. I said, well,

795
01:04:32,800 --> 01:04:36,679
that's a little hard to believe because
your area for that day only received

796
01:04:38,039 --> 01:04:43,559
zero point zero one inches of rain. That doesn't even get my windshield wet.

797
01:04:43,960 --> 01:04:48,199
Now you know this is this is
becoming familiar to me. I believe

798
01:04:49,360 --> 01:04:55,239
was he like either mangled or something
was really weird about him? As well?

799
01:04:56,440 --> 01:05:01,320
Is what was he like mangled or
something? No? Or charred someone

800
01:05:01,519 --> 01:05:08,280
No. In the very very first
information that came out about this case was

801
01:05:08,280 --> 01:05:13,199
a UFO researcher, Peter Davenport,
that was garnering all his information from the

802
01:05:13,199 --> 01:05:17,000
newspaper. And I mean the newspaper
lady said she was even one of the

803
01:05:17,039 --> 01:05:20,960
people that in her news article original
news articles which are no longer available,

804
01:05:21,000 --> 01:05:26,280
she took them all off, said
that she identified him. Well, then

805
01:05:26,320 --> 01:05:29,639
the chief of police said he identified
him. Then the father said he identified

806
01:05:29,679 --> 01:05:33,119
him, Then the brother said he
identified him, and then of a local

807
01:05:33,199 --> 01:05:36,519
police officer he identified it. So
we have all these five or six people

808
01:05:36,599 --> 01:05:41,280
identified him, but till this day
we do not know who identified the body.

809
01:05:42,519 --> 01:05:47,519
That's really strange case. All his
personal information is just missing. It's

810
01:05:47,519 --> 01:05:51,079
gone. It's not there. It's
not there. His you know, on

811
01:05:51,119 --> 01:05:55,320
a Social Security death index, which
anybody can look up, look up your

812
01:05:55,320 --> 01:05:58,639
grandfather, it will have who he
was married to, when he got married,

813
01:05:58,639 --> 01:06:01,719
where he worked, where he lived, you know, where he was

814
01:06:01,760 --> 01:06:05,840
born, where he went to school, all this information on how many kids

815
01:06:05,920 --> 01:06:10,239
he had, the names of the
kids when they were born. That's all

816
01:06:10,239 --> 01:06:14,199
in the Social Security death indicts.
You know what's on his what J.

817
01:06:14,480 --> 01:06:17,559
C. Se born blah blah blah, died blah blah blah rest blank.

818
01:06:19,159 --> 01:06:25,760
Very unusual. Oh that's it's not
unusual. That's outrageous. I mean,

819
01:06:25,800 --> 01:06:29,880
there's nothing about this guy. Now. To get to back to the beginning

820
01:06:29,920 --> 01:06:35,719
of the story, the day of
the siding, okay, UFO report went

821
01:06:35,719 --> 01:06:42,800
in that said that there was an
object above the power lines, which is

822
01:06:42,840 --> 01:06:45,280
where the ATV was found. There's
a big power line that runs up along

823
01:06:45,320 --> 01:06:53,960
his property. He has ten acres, and they two fishermen and one farmer

824
01:06:54,039 --> 01:06:57,800
down the road say that they see
what looks like to be a guy in

825
01:06:57,840 --> 01:07:01,119
his underwear being pulled up in of
this craft. Okay, and then the

826
01:07:01,119 --> 01:07:06,280
craft takes off. Now, when
he is found. There are many people

827
01:07:06,360 --> 01:07:13,800
saying he was found like this,
and he was found like this, he

828
01:07:13,920 --> 01:07:15,760
was facing that way, he's facing
this way and face well in the other

829
01:07:15,800 --> 01:07:19,400
times. What tells you exactly how
he's found. He was found in his

830
01:07:20,760 --> 01:07:27,519
cut off shorts. He actually had
started out with a full body what do

831
01:07:27,519 --> 01:07:30,880
they call him, a one piece
suit of camouflage. Well, when he's

832
01:07:30,920 --> 01:07:36,199
found, he has found in his
cutoff jeans, a T shirt and socks.

833
01:07:36,800 --> 01:07:42,760
So that matches. That matches what
that UFO report said that those gentlemen

834
01:07:42,840 --> 01:07:49,519
saw. Now everybody plays off on
that and says, well, you know

835
01:07:50,079 --> 01:07:56,519
this, that and whatever. And
I'm just reading some of the comments coming

836
01:07:56,559 --> 01:08:00,280
across your thing here and just said
the FBI was involved. Know, the

837
01:08:00,320 --> 01:08:04,159
FBI was not involved, and local
law enforcement had nothing to do with the

838
01:08:04,199 --> 01:08:09,920
case whatsoever. The case was handled
by the Pennsylvania State Police, right down

839
01:08:10,000 --> 01:08:13,519
to the viewing of the autops scenes
and taking of evidence from the autopsy scene.

840
01:08:15,159 --> 01:08:19,079
So a lot of stories floated about
that. But I can tell you

841
01:08:19,119 --> 01:08:23,439
this. When I started this investigation, I had a little half inch binder

842
01:08:23,520 --> 01:08:27,439
with about twenty pages in it.
I now have two eight inch binders that

843
01:08:27,479 --> 01:08:32,439
are filled with documented evidence of what
happened, who said what when it happened,

844
01:08:32,439 --> 01:08:36,039
who was there, who wasn't,
Where the body was found. We've

845
01:08:36,039 --> 01:08:40,880
gone to the scene, to the
house. The house was taken to sheriff

846
01:08:40,960 --> 01:08:45,039
sale after it was actually sold by
his wife and then whoever bought it defaulted

847
01:08:45,039 --> 01:08:51,079
on their loan and it was went
to sheriff sale. And we actually got

848
01:08:51,079 --> 01:08:57,199
to walk the property, photograph and
video the property inside and out, and

849
01:08:57,279 --> 01:09:00,600
we found the tree was found under
it's the only dead tree the property.

850
01:09:00,039 --> 01:09:05,760
And is it's to be exactly,
it's twenty two point five yards from the

851
01:09:05,760 --> 01:09:12,560
back door yards uh huh. And
from this road that goes up along the

852
01:09:12,600 --> 01:09:15,239
house that takes you into the woods
where he would have went with his ATV

853
01:09:15,800 --> 01:09:25,560
to go up through there. He
I think it was sixteen feet and four

854
01:09:25,600 --> 01:09:28,600
inches right edge to edge edge of
the tree to the edge of the road.

855
01:09:29,479 --> 01:09:32,319
Now, to believe their story or
the story that is being told,

856
01:09:34,079 --> 01:09:39,680
all these researchers had to walk past
this guy for two days. He's in

857
01:09:39,720 --> 01:09:43,920
a case of advanced decomposition. That
is impossible to happen in that short period

858
01:09:43,920 --> 01:09:50,760
of time. Uh that way,
doesn't it? Yeah? I mean it's

859
01:09:50,840 --> 01:09:59,800
just it's it's not it's not strange, it's bizarre because everybody relates back to

860
01:09:59,840 --> 01:10:02,760
the original case. And even when
I talked about it originally, I was

861
01:10:03,479 --> 01:10:08,560
wrong because I didn't have that information
then that I have now. I didn't

862
01:10:08,560 --> 01:10:14,239
talk to people or family members or
the corner or the police or the state

863
01:10:14,239 --> 01:10:16,000
police or anything like that. We
just had one of our guys up there

864
01:10:16,079 --> 01:10:21,000
last April the police. He went
to the police station to get information on

865
01:10:21,000 --> 01:10:24,800
a Floyer request that we sent.
And we've not had one Floyer request and

866
01:10:24,840 --> 01:10:28,920
that police department answered, not one. We haven't had one of our ployer

867
01:10:28,960 --> 01:10:32,640
requests answered by the state police either. We've been told that they can't give

868
01:10:32,680 --> 01:10:39,439
that information out because it is an
open case. Now the death has been

869
01:10:39,439 --> 01:10:43,239
attributed to cocaine toxicity, so it's
not an open case. The death has

870
01:10:43,279 --> 01:10:47,039
been documented as cocaine toxicity. So
the only way you can keep an open

871
01:10:47,039 --> 01:10:54,079
case in the state of Pennsylvania is
murder. So murdered by who. Now

872
01:10:54,119 --> 01:10:58,279
that takes us in another direction.
Did he owe somebody money, was he

873
01:10:58,319 --> 01:11:00,399
messed around somebody's wife or but I
mean, it looks like they went to

874
01:11:00,439 --> 01:11:04,439
a great length to put that much
cocaine into a guy. I mean,

875
01:11:04,479 --> 01:11:09,399
if using cocaine, there are certain
things that happened to the body. I

876
01:11:09,439 --> 01:11:15,960
mean the heart, especially the lungs, the nose. Different things fail,

877
01:11:15,279 --> 01:11:19,399
but they show a telltale sign.
His body was as clean as a pin.

878
01:11:21,319 --> 01:11:26,039
Other than scrapes and bruises and bangs
and knocks and a few lacerations,

879
01:11:26,680 --> 01:11:33,399
the body was pretty much undocumentable.
He had no signs of enlarged heart or

880
01:11:33,720 --> 01:11:39,960
kidney issues, or liver issues,
or nasal issues or throat issues. But

881
01:11:40,079 --> 01:11:45,079
yet he was this, according to
them, this wild cocaine using fanatic.

882
01:11:45,439 --> 01:11:48,640
To When we talked to the boy
scout, I mean the little league baseball

883
01:11:48,640 --> 01:11:51,760
team that he coached for many,
many years, they just laughed at us

884
01:11:51,760 --> 01:11:56,640
and they said, look, this
guy even had the slightest inkling of doing

885
01:11:56,680 --> 01:11:58,880
any kind of drugs. Do you
think we let him around these kids?

886
01:11:58,960 --> 01:12:03,960
You're crazy? He said, this
guy didn't buy a cocaine and here's a

887
01:12:04,039 --> 01:12:08,159
kicker. So from the time the
body's picked up full time it hits the

888
01:12:08,159 --> 01:12:11,720
autopsy table, we have fourteen hours
where we don't know where that body is.

889
01:12:13,239 --> 01:12:17,800
Wow, So what a crazy case
you're telling me? Man? Wow.

890
01:12:18,319 --> 01:12:23,439
And I know we're going into the
second hour in a little long into

891
01:12:23,479 --> 01:12:28,880
this, but that's fine. I
wanted to switch gears a little bit,

892
01:12:29,000 --> 01:12:34,279
but also kind of along this same
subject, I want to talk. As

893
01:12:34,319 --> 01:12:36,720
I mentioned in the beginning of the
show, that we're going to go a

894
01:12:36,720 --> 01:12:42,479
bit off the UFO topic, and
that is possibly off the UFO topic,

895
01:12:42,520 --> 01:12:46,039
who knows, but human mutilations kind
of similar. But before we get into

896
01:12:46,079 --> 01:12:50,079
that, you mentioned that you also
do a lot of abduction or you do

897
01:12:50,159 --> 01:12:58,279
some abduction investigations, and yes,
we do that. To investigate an abduction

898
01:12:58,880 --> 01:13:01,720
must be much harder to do than
UFO siding. How does that work?

899
01:13:02,479 --> 01:13:08,880
Well? Abduction cases are usually,
I mean, an abduction case that really

900
01:13:08,920 --> 01:13:14,479
catches your mind are abduction cases that
usually come from folks that all of a

901
01:13:14,520 --> 01:13:17,800
sudden have a recollection of something that
happened twenty years ago, and they're not

902
01:13:17,840 --> 01:13:21,319
involved in uthology. They wouldn't know
how to go buy a ufology book or

903
01:13:21,279 --> 01:13:29,439
an abduction book if they had to. They're distraught, they're pretty much physically

904
01:13:29,640 --> 01:13:34,439
mentally destroyed by it. They're very
they know what they saw, they know

905
01:13:34,479 --> 01:13:40,680
what they went through, and they
describe it in very great detail. They

906
01:13:40,680 --> 01:13:46,319
don't acould I say, they don't
flutter around with descriptions of what they thought

907
01:13:46,359 --> 01:13:53,640
may have happened to them. They're
pretty much right on the money. And

908
01:13:54,960 --> 01:14:00,199
a lot of things happened in childhood. A lot of things happened, you

909
01:14:00,199 --> 01:14:03,920
know that just you just shaking your
head, you know, I mean,

910
01:14:04,520 --> 01:14:09,600
wow. And when you do get
into one that's a really good case,

911
01:14:09,680 --> 01:14:14,680
you'll find that it wasn't only that
child that was seemingly abducted, but it

912
01:14:14,800 --> 01:14:16,560
was the brother, the sister,
the mother, the uncle, the father,

913
01:14:16,680 --> 01:14:23,439
the grandfather, ran through the whole
family. And that's when you start

914
01:14:23,439 --> 01:14:26,239
bringing in specialists, you know,
I start bringing in people that that's all

915
01:14:26,279 --> 01:14:30,279
they do. You know, I'll
take all the initial stuff and then I'll

916
01:14:30,279 --> 01:14:32,960
transmit that to one of our folks, maybe in Florida or Georgia, who

917
01:14:33,119 --> 01:14:36,399
that's all they do and have done
for many many years. As a matter

918
01:14:36,439 --> 01:14:42,640
of fact, Denise Stoner are one
of the folks that runs our Florida group.

919
01:14:43,359 --> 01:14:47,199
Her and Kathleen Martin wrote a book
together on abductions, and she's very

920
01:14:47,199 --> 01:14:53,920
active with Muffan as an abduction specialist. So I really take it so far

921
01:14:54,479 --> 01:14:57,880
and then I'll turn it over to
them and if they're busy, then it'll

922
01:14:57,920 --> 01:15:02,800
go to doctor David Jacobs. Now, when you were saying, you go

923
01:15:02,880 --> 01:15:09,039
through all this, you hear or
I hear everywhere that it's like more and

924
01:15:09,079 --> 01:15:13,279
more and more people yes or claims, and you're seeing that as well.

925
01:15:13,920 --> 01:15:19,720
Yes, we've had about a I'm
going to say, to be on the

926
01:15:19,720 --> 01:15:24,399
safe side, about a twenty percent
increase in the last two years of production

927
01:15:24,560 --> 01:15:30,800
reports. Wow. Yeah, that's
that's pretty high, pretty hip a lot.

928
01:15:30,239 --> 01:15:33,840
And you know, I hear the
numbers. Sometimes you hear people say,

929
01:15:34,000 --> 01:15:39,039
you know, in the possibly in
the millions, and just you know,

930
01:15:39,399 --> 01:15:43,399
like a percentage of our society.
You know, you hear this and

931
01:15:43,439 --> 01:15:47,079
I don't know, you know,
even if a small, tiny, well

932
01:15:47,159 --> 01:15:51,560
let's just put it this way,
even if one out of those supposed millions

933
01:15:51,600 --> 01:15:57,119
actually was abducted, that would be
big time news. Well, when I

934
01:15:57,239 --> 01:16:02,720
first started doing statistics to find out
just about how many people were ever reported

935
01:16:02,760 --> 01:16:06,039
missing, I mean that set me
back in my chair. I couldn't talk

936
01:16:06,079 --> 01:16:10,600
for twenty minutes. I went back
to two thousand and eight. I used

937
01:16:10,600 --> 01:16:14,680
the NCI Statistics, which is the
National Crime Information Center, put out by

938
01:16:14,680 --> 01:16:19,079
the FBI. That means that that
when people see in their newspaper or they

939
01:16:19,159 --> 01:16:24,119
might get a suburb or something on
the internet, they'll say, you know

940
01:16:24,159 --> 01:16:28,439
that such and such town, here's
their crime report for the last year,

941
01:16:28,680 --> 01:16:32,000
while they always run a year behind. So and on that report, which

942
01:16:32,239 --> 01:16:36,479
every police department in this country.
I don't care if sheriff, state police,

943
01:16:36,840 --> 01:16:40,640
local police, it doesn't matter if
their law enforcement. They have to

944
01:16:40,680 --> 01:16:44,640
fill this form out and on the
forum and asks questions. It's kind of

945
01:16:44,640 --> 01:16:47,520
like yes or no, or how
many how many bicycles were stolen, how

946
01:16:47,520 --> 01:16:50,239
many rapes did you have, how
many murders occurred, how many gun thefts

947
01:16:50,239 --> 01:16:53,439
did you have? You know that
kind of stuff. And that's how they

948
01:16:53,479 --> 01:16:59,479
tally the crime statistics for the country. Okay, pretty simple. And also

949
01:16:59,520 --> 01:17:01,760
on there is missing person reports,
murders, runaways, a whole bit.

950
01:17:02,039 --> 01:17:05,159
So I went back and researched that
it's open to the public. Anybody can

951
01:17:05,199 --> 01:17:13,960
do it. So I started nineteen
ninety one, and I actually started.

952
01:17:14,000 --> 01:17:16,119
I did the first research in two
thousand and eight and I came up with

953
01:17:16,319 --> 01:17:20,399
it had seven hundred and seventy eight
one hundred and sixty four missing persons filed.

954
01:17:21,479 --> 01:17:26,039
Now, ninety five percent of those
are found, not like David to

955
01:17:26,159 --> 01:17:29,479
ask you about that, okay,
about ninety five percent are found, not

956
01:17:29,520 --> 01:17:33,319
like David's part where pretty much nobody's
ever found. Now, about seventy five

957
01:17:33,359 --> 01:17:38,560
percent of those are runaways under the
age of eighteen. About twenty percent are

958
01:17:38,800 --> 01:17:42,920
spouse abuse murders, elderly walkaways,
ransom, you know, kidnapping, that

959
01:17:43,000 --> 01:17:45,880
kind of stuff. But five percent, five percent are never found. So

960
01:17:45,920 --> 01:17:49,960
that just for two thousand and eight, that means that thirty eight, nine

961
01:17:50,079 --> 01:17:54,840
hundred and eight people were never found. Okay. So I went back to

962
01:17:54,920 --> 01:18:00,279
nineteen ninety one and totaled all the
missing reports from nineteen ninety one, and

963
01:18:00,319 --> 01:18:02,159
that came up to thirteen million,
eight hundred and sixty one thousand, sixty

964
01:18:02,199 --> 01:18:08,479
five. Using the same math with
that five percent, it showed that six

965
01:18:08,600 --> 01:18:14,600
hundred ninety three thousand, fifty three
people are never found, no trace man,

966
01:18:14,680 --> 01:18:16,239
woman, child, no clothing,
no body, no nothing. Now,

967
01:18:16,319 --> 01:18:19,399
if they were found like five years
later, would it you know,

968
01:18:19,520 --> 01:18:23,880
like living somewhere yep, it would
take it off. It would take them

969
01:18:23,880 --> 01:18:29,520
off. Yep. Oh, in
seventeen years, you had seven hundred ninety

970
01:18:29,520 --> 01:18:34,760
five people gone off the face of
this planet. Totally amazing, and someone

971
01:18:34,800 --> 01:18:41,119
could be say murdered and buried or
something like that. Yeah, yeah,

972
01:18:41,199 --> 01:18:45,079
but the five percent means that they've
never been found, No trace has ever

973
01:18:45,119 --> 01:18:49,199
been found, no body, no
parts, no clothing, no nothing.

974
01:18:51,000 --> 01:18:56,960
And we're not talking about criminals here
or wild and maniacs or anything. We're

975
01:18:56,960 --> 01:19:01,039
talking about everyday people. So now
the United States does this to the FBI.

976
01:19:01,520 --> 01:19:04,760
But now take a country like say
South Africa or just in Africa,

977
01:19:05,479 --> 01:19:10,840
where whole villages have disappeared. They
don't take any statistics. So whether there

978
01:19:10,880 --> 01:19:13,960
were fifty people in that village or
five thousand people in the village, they're

979
01:19:14,000 --> 01:19:18,680
gone. China doesn't do it,
I mean places that have these. Nobody

980
01:19:18,680 --> 01:19:23,239
in Europe does this, so they
have no idea how many people are missing.

981
01:19:24,359 --> 01:19:28,319
So if you look at the forty
thousand, seven hundred a year since

982
01:19:28,359 --> 01:19:34,920
nineteen ninety one, what's that say
about the rest of the world. I

983
01:19:34,960 --> 01:19:40,760
mean, that's crazy. Yeah,
it's amazing, really is, and it's

984
01:19:40,840 --> 01:19:45,840
pretty scary. Actually, yes it
is. Think about it. So now

985
01:19:45,960 --> 01:19:49,439
I heard one of the lectures I've
listened to what you were talking about.

986
01:19:49,479 --> 01:19:56,520
You got into the human mutilations and
where do you think the connections, How

987
01:19:56,520 --> 01:20:00,720
does all that fit into everything.
Well, back in the early sixties,

988
01:20:02,159 --> 01:20:06,800
rumors were all about, you know, they came to the forefront of human

989
01:20:06,840 --> 01:20:14,520
corpses were being found with strange wounds
like the time, the same type found

990
01:20:14,560 --> 01:20:18,520
in cattle cattle mulations, and they
were just dismissed as in bed taste by

991
01:20:18,520 --> 01:20:23,199
most ufologists. Nobody wanted to get
involved in that, and until today it's

992
01:20:23,199 --> 01:20:28,520
still the black part of ufology that's
really never talked about. But I started

993
01:20:28,520 --> 01:20:31,439
looking into it because I was looking
at actually cattle mulations, and I started

994
01:20:31,439 --> 01:20:34,279
coming up with all these cases and
I'm like, well, man, there's

995
01:20:34,279 --> 01:20:39,199
a lot of cases here. So
the one that really struck home right off

996
01:20:39,239 --> 01:20:43,680
the get go is a Guada Pryanga
Dam in Brazil case and took place in

997
01:20:43,720 --> 01:20:48,680
nineteen eighty eight. The Guada Prayanga
Dam is a man made dam that supplies

998
01:20:48,920 --> 01:20:55,880
water to San Palo, a very
great fishing spot for the locals. Also,

999
01:20:57,399 --> 01:20:59,880
so a couple of guys in a
boat are not doing their fishing thing

1000
01:21:00,119 --> 01:21:02,720
and they spot what they see as
a body looks like a body on the

1001
01:21:02,760 --> 01:21:06,800
shore. So instead of being like
most people would go check it out.

1002
01:21:06,880 --> 01:21:12,439
These guys went and got the cops. So the cops showed up, and

1003
01:21:12,479 --> 01:21:15,279
they show up with a forensic team. Thea for our side, and that

1004
01:21:15,319 --> 01:21:23,800
doesn't usually happen. So at the
crime scene, this guy is found with

1005
01:21:23,920 --> 01:21:28,720
the following items surgically removed his eyes, his left ear, his inner ear,

1006
01:21:29,920 --> 01:21:32,920
lower jaw, inner throat, and
tongue. There are one inch to

1007
01:21:33,039 --> 01:21:35,880
one and a half inch holes in
the following areas of his body, which

1008
01:21:35,920 --> 01:21:41,640
were the muscle, tissue, glands
all removed, shoulder, chest, naval

1009
01:21:41,680 --> 01:21:46,039
thigh, testicles removed, prostrate,
prostrate gland was removed via the urethral tube

1010
01:21:47,479 --> 01:21:51,119
in Testines were removed via a hole
in the navel. Anus was caught out

1011
01:21:51,159 --> 01:21:56,359
to the colon. Body presented no
signs of bloating, which in itself I

1012
01:21:56,399 --> 01:21:59,319
think is pretty remarkable. Due to
the high heat in that area at that

1013
01:21:59,399 --> 01:22:01,920
time of year, he should have
been blown up like a balloon and there

1014
01:22:01,960 --> 01:22:06,680
was no body odor whatsoever. Neither
was there any blood found at the scene

1015
01:22:06,760 --> 01:22:15,359
other than some speckles of blood around
around the wounds themselves. He is laying

1016
01:22:15,439 --> 01:22:20,880
there all the photos are taken.
The body was never touched till everything was

1017
01:22:20,920 --> 01:22:27,880
done, so it was really done
properly in the right order. And then

1018
01:22:27,920 --> 01:22:34,319
we get the autopsy report which was
made public years afterwards, and the death

1019
01:22:34,399 --> 01:22:39,600
was due to massive trauma. Now, so the really strange parts about this

1020
01:22:39,800 --> 01:22:45,520
is just the opposite of Todd sees
this Todd was dead forty I forget forty

1021
01:22:45,520 --> 01:22:49,119
to forty four, something like at
fifty hours or something like that. But

1022
01:22:49,159 --> 01:22:54,079
the time of death placed on this
guy was forty to seventy two hours before

1023
01:22:54,079 --> 01:23:00,960
discovery. No bloating, no liver
mortis, no rigor mortis, no noticeable

1024
01:23:00,960 --> 01:23:08,760
blood at the scene. And one
of the things that pops up in the

1025
01:23:08,760 --> 01:23:15,920
autopsy report is the term vital reaction. Now, vital reaction would use a

1026
01:23:15,920 --> 01:23:19,520
lot of lawyers, police use that
because the term vital reaction really indicates the

1027
01:23:19,600 --> 01:23:23,680
response of a living body tissue to
an injury. So if I take a

1028
01:23:23,760 --> 01:23:25,680
knife and I stab you on your
arm, you're going to pull away.

1029
01:23:25,840 --> 01:23:28,000
But when you pull away, you're
going to cause some ripping, tearing,

1030
01:23:28,039 --> 01:23:33,920
blacking and blue around the wound and
stuff like that. And it's really importance

1031
01:23:33,960 --> 01:23:42,000
in forensic medicine because it really it
helps to attempt to establish that an injury

1032
01:23:42,039 --> 01:23:44,479
was inflicted before death or after death. So, in other words, if

1033
01:23:44,520 --> 01:23:45,439
you're dead and I take a knife
and stick it, and you're just gonna

1034
01:23:45,439 --> 01:23:47,960
be a hole from the knife,
no blood, no bleeding, no black

1035
01:23:47,960 --> 01:23:56,600
and blue or anything like that.
But one of the things that vital reaction

1036
01:23:56,880 --> 01:24:01,279
does mean is that in this when
they did the autopsy, when they removed

1037
01:24:01,279 --> 01:24:05,479
the skull, they saw massive human
thomas, many eman thomas, very small,

1038
01:24:05,760 --> 01:24:13,880
but many of them that would only
be found in a very I like

1039
01:24:13,880 --> 01:24:17,039
to say, a crushing injury where
somebody was pinned in a car or crushed

1040
01:24:17,039 --> 01:24:19,600
against a wall with a piece of
machinery. They didn't die right away.

1041
01:24:19,760 --> 01:24:23,079
They were alive and all this pain, you know, they're going through all

1042
01:24:23,119 --> 01:24:25,720
this pain, agony in their brain, you know, and all of a

1043
01:24:25,720 --> 01:24:32,760
sudden, these small blood vessels start
to burst. And that really means that

1044
01:24:32,880 --> 01:24:38,319
when this took place, when this
guy was I'll use butchered for a better

1045
01:24:38,319 --> 01:24:45,279
relution of any other word, he
was alive. Out Now we have one

1046
01:24:45,399 --> 01:24:48,800
animal mutilation like that, the case
of Snippy. I can't remember Snippy's real

1047
01:24:48,840 --> 01:24:53,199
name, but that was the name. The newspaper gate this this horse.

1048
01:24:53,960 --> 01:24:59,319
The investigators are on a scene and
horses laying on his side, and the

1049
01:24:59,359 --> 01:25:02,600
one investig says, there's something strange
here. He says, in his words,

1050
01:25:02,800 --> 01:25:05,319
he said, you know, the
eyes were removed, and the viscous

1051
01:25:05,319 --> 01:25:10,239
fluid should have run off the horse
laying on his left That should have ran

1052
01:25:10,239 --> 01:25:13,079
off to the left side, correct. And the guy goes, yeah,

1053
01:25:13,159 --> 01:25:15,439
he said, well look at this, and he's looking at the horse,

1054
01:25:15,000 --> 01:25:19,000
and the viscous fluid actually ran straight
down the nose and off the end of

1055
01:25:19,039 --> 01:25:25,960
the nose. So the horse was
upright when his eyes were removed. Geez,

1056
01:25:26,920 --> 01:25:32,640
So the horse was alive. Now
there's a researcher in Puerto Rico who's

1057
01:25:32,680 --> 01:25:36,079
working on this now for about I
don't know how many years, probably a

1058
01:25:36,119 --> 01:25:42,600
lot longer than I'm alive, maybe, And he says he thinks that the

1059
01:25:43,000 --> 01:25:50,399
our space brethren are going after indorphins. Now, what causes endorphins? If

1060
01:25:50,439 --> 01:25:55,239
I run up to you and I
say, damn, Martin, here's a

1061
01:25:55,279 --> 01:25:58,760
million dollar check, it's all yours
cash, just go spend it, your

1062
01:25:58,840 --> 01:26:01,479
endorphins are going to go. Right. They just did the same thing that

1063
01:26:01,600 --> 01:26:03,880
happened. The same thing would happen
if I put your hand in the meat

1064
01:26:04,840 --> 01:26:09,199
in a vice and start to turn
the ice closed here and doorphins would go

1065
01:26:09,239 --> 01:26:14,479
crazy. So it's a good reaction, band reaction, and he's trying to

1066
01:26:14,479 --> 01:26:19,600
put this together with these human mutilations. Now, there are a number of

1067
01:26:19,680 --> 01:26:25,119
mutilations that have taken place. I
mean there's a number of cases. They've

1068
01:26:25,119 --> 01:26:29,239
had them. They've been documented back
in over in England, back into the

1069
01:26:29,239 --> 01:26:33,840
fourteenth fifteenth century where they found,
you know, a local who disappeared in

1070
01:26:33,880 --> 01:26:38,560
twenty four hours later, somebody found
him hanging in a tree and he had

1071
01:26:38,560 --> 01:26:42,439
these strange holes in his body and
parts of the body interior were missing.

1072
01:26:45,600 --> 01:26:51,319
There's a number of those. Another
case that was really fascinating. I did

1073
01:26:51,319 --> 01:26:58,840
get to talk to the lawyer that
was handling the case for the gentleman was

1074
01:26:59,000 --> 01:27:03,760
in Iiro, Egypt, in an
area called Benny Bazaar, which is right

1075
01:27:03,800 --> 01:27:08,560
outside of Cairo. This took place
in two thousand and five where three families

1076
01:27:08,560 --> 01:27:14,479
were butchered exactly like this guy.
Everything in the house was butchered. I

1077
01:27:14,479 --> 01:27:16,640
think if they had goldfish, they
were butchered. Everything was gone. Everybody

1078
01:27:16,720 --> 01:27:19,640
was killed, man, women,
children, dogs, cats, whatever,

1079
01:27:21,039 --> 01:27:27,199
and they blamed it on a gentleman
who was retarded, mentally retarded, had

1080
01:27:27,239 --> 01:27:30,119
the mentality of about a four or
five year old, didn't even know his

1081
01:27:30,159 --> 01:27:35,479
own name, lived thirty five miles
from the scene of the crime, and

1082
01:27:35,520 --> 01:27:39,720
they penned the crime on him.
Well, they had no other suspects,

1083
01:27:39,760 --> 01:27:44,359
so he was likely. And that
case drugg on for years, and then

1084
01:27:44,439 --> 01:27:47,439
finally, you know, they got
him acquitted. And I did get to

1085
01:27:47,439 --> 01:27:51,239
talk to his lawyer, and till
this day, till right now, if

1086
01:27:51,279 --> 01:27:55,680
this guy wants to go outside,
I don't care. If he wants to

1087
01:27:55,680 --> 01:27:58,319
go out outside of his property line, you know, he wants to go

1088
01:27:58,359 --> 01:28:00,359
outside that wall and take a walk
in the street, they have to call

1089
01:28:00,399 --> 01:28:03,479
the police. A police officer will
come and escort him. If he's going

1090
01:28:03,560 --> 01:28:09,840
to go to the mosque to pray, police, shopping police. And if

1091
01:28:09,880 --> 01:28:13,239
he doesn't call the police and he
goes outside those parameters, he will be

1092
01:28:13,319 --> 01:28:16,399
locked up for life. And this
is someone who was acquitted. He was

1093
01:28:16,399 --> 01:28:20,600
acquitted, yes, unreal, Wow, but those were the conditions of him

1094
01:28:20,640 --> 01:28:27,319
being acquitted. These things have to
take place till he dies. Wow,

1095
01:28:28,159 --> 01:28:30,760
this is a guy can't even tie
his own shoes. Yeah, and thirty

1096
01:28:30,800 --> 01:28:34,119
five miles away. That's thirty five
miles away. He has to have help

1097
01:28:34,159 --> 01:28:38,600
to eat, to go to the
bathroom, to take a bath. I

1098
01:28:38,640 --> 01:28:44,239
mean, this guy is basically a
walk in bowl of vegetable soup. And

1099
01:28:45,199 --> 01:28:46,800
to do what to do? All
the things that were done to the guy

1100
01:28:46,840 --> 01:28:51,960
in Brazil or like are done to
cattle, which are pretty much exactly the

1101
01:28:53,000 --> 01:28:57,319
same, same organ's taken, the
same parts, all taken the same way.

1102
01:28:59,000 --> 01:29:03,680
Bingo, there's a guy nailed with
it now, I have heard.

1103
01:29:04,239 --> 01:29:10,680
I don't think anyone has talked about
the human mutilations on this show. I've

1104
01:29:10,720 --> 01:29:15,279
had Chris O'Brien and a few other
people. Linda Moulton, how I think,

1105
01:29:15,600 --> 01:29:17,720
talked about a little bit on this
show before. But is there so

1106
01:29:18,359 --> 01:29:23,000
one of the things that Chris O'Brien
said a lot of times, there is

1107
01:29:23,079 --> 01:29:28,199
blood in the corpse of the cattle. Is just everything you know settles to

1108
01:29:28,279 --> 01:29:32,079
gravity, Yes, but not that
much. I mean, if you've ever

1109
01:29:32,119 --> 01:29:35,880
seen a Kyle Butcher, you won't
believe the amount of blood that comes out

1110
01:29:35,880 --> 01:29:39,279
of that animal. I went to
an avatar just to see it, to

1111
01:29:39,279 --> 01:29:42,039
see because I never seen it beforce. I went to see it. When

1112
01:29:42,039 --> 01:29:45,000
they open that animal up. I
mean the floor, which is probably in

1113
01:29:45,000 --> 01:29:49,760
a room about sixteen by eighteen,
is covered in blood from one animal.

1114
01:29:49,880 --> 01:29:56,319
I hope no one's eating right now. But you have Chuck Kowski, who's

1115
01:29:56,319 --> 01:29:58,680
a long time researcher, remember move
On. He as a matter of fact,

1116
01:29:58,680 --> 01:30:02,800
he's the cattle researcher for move And
Chuck has also found, you know,

1117
01:30:02,960 --> 01:30:06,199
small pools of blood here and there, but that's stuff that's draining out

1118
01:30:06,239 --> 01:30:10,840
of small veins. I mean,
we're not talking about we're talking about an

1119
01:30:10,840 --> 01:30:13,640
animal that's been you know, opened
up front, rear, top, bottom,

1120
01:30:14,159 --> 01:30:17,359
and you've got this little a cup
or so of blood. Well,

1121
01:30:17,479 --> 01:30:20,760
what happened to the gallons that we're
in there? They're not on the ground.

1122
01:30:21,479 --> 01:30:27,039
They're not on the ground. And
places where these animals have been found,

1123
01:30:28,079 --> 01:30:32,039
years many years have gone by where
you can go to that exact spot

1124
01:30:32,319 --> 01:30:35,479
and nothing is growing there. I
mean it could be in the middle of

1125
01:30:35,479 --> 01:30:41,439
a wheat field and that the animal
carcass where it laid. There's nothing growing

1126
01:30:41,479 --> 01:30:47,159
where that carc is laid. So
you know, although there are not many

1127
01:30:47,239 --> 01:30:54,520
researchers that do cattle mutilation. They
pretty much all have the same thing gone

1128
01:30:54,560 --> 01:30:59,000
as far as what they do.
And one of the things Chuck was really

1129
01:30:59,119 --> 01:31:02,199
excited about was he had an EMF
detector and he was actually getting a hit

1130
01:31:02,279 --> 01:31:06,720
on a cow recently recently killed,
and he was this thing was moving,

1131
01:31:06,760 --> 01:31:10,600
whatever it was inside this cow's body
was moving and he was picking it up

1132
01:31:10,600 --> 01:31:15,479
on an EF detector. So there
was something electromagnetic in that cow that was

1133
01:31:15,520 --> 01:31:17,760
moving around in that cow. And
when he got to the other side,

1134
01:31:17,800 --> 01:31:25,560
it disappeared, just started and it
wasn't there anymore. Stranger and stranger.

1135
01:31:25,920 --> 01:31:29,840
Now what are what are you?
You mentioned that there's a lot of similarities

1136
01:31:29,880 --> 01:31:36,039
between human utilations and cattle. Yes, and well, the anal areas poured

1137
01:31:36,079 --> 01:31:43,439
out, the ears are cut,
eyes are missing, lower jaw. One

1138
01:31:43,479 --> 01:31:47,359
of the strangest cases I worked on
was actually a horse in North Dakota where

1139
01:31:47,479 --> 01:31:51,560
a lady was riding in an indoor
ring. If anybody's familiar with riding horses

1140
01:31:51,600 --> 01:31:57,600
an indoor ring, they those rings
are pristine. There's no sharp objects or

1141
01:31:57,640 --> 01:32:00,560
anything like that. They're very smooth. Silver rider or they animal does not

1142
01:32:00,600 --> 01:32:04,520
get hurt. So she stops the
horse in the middle of her little thing

1143
01:32:04,640 --> 01:32:08,720
to go get something out of the
tack room. The tack room is seventy

1144
01:32:08,720 --> 01:32:13,319
five feet from where she left the
horse standing. Okay, when she comes

1145
01:32:13,319 --> 01:32:15,439
back, I don't know how long
it takes to walk seventy five feet,

1146
01:32:15,479 --> 01:32:17,560
got whatever she got and came back. But when she comes back, the

1147
01:32:17,640 --> 01:32:23,840
horse's jaw is opened up from right
below the ear all the way down.

1148
01:32:24,680 --> 01:32:27,560
The flap is hanging open, and
the lower part of its jaw is missing.

1149
01:32:29,000 --> 01:32:31,159
The horse is bleeding very little.
The horse is not screaming, it's

1150
01:32:31,159 --> 01:32:35,600
not running around, it's standing exactly
where she left it. They call a

1151
01:32:35,680 --> 01:32:38,920
vet that says, there's nothing I
can do for this horse. They had

1152
01:32:38,920 --> 01:32:42,039
to put the horse down. And
when she sent me those pictures, I

1153
01:32:42,159 --> 01:32:46,520
just I couldn't believe it. So
right away somebody said, well he ran

1154
01:32:46,560 --> 01:32:49,560
into a nail. Well, there
are no nails in a riding ring.

1155
01:32:49,760 --> 01:32:53,840
There's nothing in a riding ring that
would injure a horse or hay rider,

1156
01:32:54,520 --> 01:32:58,800
because you know you're riding around in
a ring. There's nothing there. There's

1157
01:32:58,800 --> 01:33:01,880
just walls, and there's smooth walls, either wood or metal or whatever.

1158
01:33:01,960 --> 01:33:04,880
But there's no place where the horse
went. I mean the horse was right

1159
01:33:04,880 --> 01:33:10,479
where she left him, and he
never let out a howl or scream or

1160
01:33:10,680 --> 01:33:13,479
I mean, that just doesn't make
anything. Slap a horse, you slap

1161
01:33:13,479 --> 01:33:15,920
a horse good with a stick,
that horse is gonna yell. Yeah.

1162
01:33:16,000 --> 01:33:21,199
Now imagine this horse is standing there
while somebody removes its lower jaw and opens

1163
01:33:21,199 --> 01:33:24,199
it up. I mean, this
horse has opened up like he was hit

1164
01:33:24,239 --> 01:33:30,520
with a saber. So that is
crazy. Now there's a couple of questions

1165
01:33:30,640 --> 01:33:34,279
up on the message board, and
one is what does the EMF detector mean?

1166
01:33:35,000 --> 01:33:41,079
That would be moving inside the cow? The only thing that it would

1167
01:33:41,199 --> 01:33:45,680
that Chuck's thing was that there was
something giving off an electric magnetic pulse.

1168
01:33:46,880 --> 01:33:50,760
Could have been anything. I mean, okay, your microwave will give off

1169
01:33:50,960 --> 01:33:55,479
MF, you'r a watch will give
off EMFR, your monitor will give off

1170
01:33:55,520 --> 01:34:00,239
VMF. Electromagnetic fields are everywhere,
But why would there be an electromagnetic field

1171
01:34:00,319 --> 01:34:04,960
and a cow. Yeah, it's
pretty weird. I mean, there's no

1172
01:34:05,159 --> 01:34:11,840
natural anomaly that could be associated with
that inside of like a living being.

1173
01:34:12,760 --> 01:34:15,560
No, no, you could take
an EMF detector unless you have a heart,

1174
01:34:15,600 --> 01:34:18,279
unless you have a pacemaker. An
EMF tector will just give just like

1175
01:34:18,359 --> 01:34:20,960
radiation. If I put a radiation
detector against your body, I'm just going

1176
01:34:21,039 --> 01:34:25,039
to pick up residual radiation which could
be from your clothing, from the air,

1177
01:34:25,159 --> 01:34:30,000
or anything else. But to make
an EMF detector move, there has

1178
01:34:30,039 --> 01:34:35,560
to be an electromagnetic pulse. I
see, Wow, electro magnetic pulse in

1179
01:34:35,800 --> 01:34:42,720
a cow. That was dead amazing. So Phil asked on the message board

1180
01:34:43,000 --> 01:34:48,279
how many human mutilations have they been
reported to date? Best we know,

1181
01:34:48,680 --> 01:34:51,439
we don't have a whole lot from
England, other than the fact that they

1182
01:34:51,479 --> 01:34:57,960
gave us like seven cases to look
at in this country. I can tell

1183
01:34:57,960 --> 01:35:02,960
you that in a second here,
I believe that's ten one, two,

1184
01:35:03,000 --> 01:35:06,359
three, four, five, six, seven, eight, nine, eleven,

1185
01:35:08,920 --> 01:35:15,239
eleven in this country. And yes, and are there variances or are

1186
01:35:15,239 --> 01:35:20,319
they just a lot of similarities pretty
much similar. The one that would be

1187
01:35:20,399 --> 01:35:28,960
closest to the general the gentleman in
Brazil was the New Zealand case in nineteen

1188
01:35:29,039 --> 01:35:32,720
ninety four. Gentleman was found basically
identically cut up just like this other guy

1189
01:35:33,800 --> 01:35:42,159
in Brazil. Yes. Uh,
they go back to nineteen fifty six in

1190
01:35:42,199 --> 01:35:46,880
New Mexico at Air Force Base in
New Mexico, Holloman Air Force Base.

1191
01:35:47,680 --> 01:35:53,680
A sergeant JP Lovett, him and
this colonel were going down range to pick

1192
01:35:53,760 --> 01:35:58,079
up some parts of a missile that
was fired at test missile and the colonel

1193
01:35:58,119 --> 01:36:01,600
heard the sergeant scream. He turned
around, he saw something wrapped around the

1194
01:36:01,640 --> 01:36:06,359
guy's leg and pulling him into a
craft. And then, of course they

1195
01:36:06,399 --> 01:36:13,359
arrested the colonel for murder because they
couldn't find a body, and they kind

1196
01:36:13,359 --> 01:36:16,399
of didn't believe the story. But
two days later, Sergeant Levitt shows up

1197
01:36:16,439 --> 01:36:20,039
about a quarter of a mile from
where he was taken, and he's in

1198
01:36:20,119 --> 01:36:26,600
pretty much the same condition as the
other fellas. Now, and another thing,

1199
01:36:26,600 --> 01:36:32,000
we have no report of any female
being done in like this, really,

1200
01:36:32,600 --> 01:36:36,199
And what is that with cows?
Are you familiar with how that works?

1201
01:36:36,319 --> 01:36:44,560
If cows or bulls mostly female?
I think I saw. I think

1202
01:36:44,600 --> 01:36:49,199
I may have read two cases where
a bull was involved, and other than

1203
01:36:49,239 --> 01:36:54,880
the unlike with the cow, the
otters were taken. In the case of

1204
01:36:54,920 --> 01:36:59,880
the bull, the penis and testicles
were removed. But now that's another story.

1205
01:37:00,039 --> 01:37:03,880
And you see some of these pictures
where somebody has actually removed the utters

1206
01:37:03,920 --> 01:37:09,760
without damaging the stomachs of that cow. That's pretty much impossible. There's only

1207
01:37:09,800 --> 01:37:15,239
like a quarter of an inch of
skin between the the outside of the utter,

1208
01:37:15,479 --> 01:37:19,720
the skin and the inside which the
next thing they would hit would be

1209
01:37:19,760 --> 01:37:27,680
the would be the one of the
one of the cow's stomachs. I mean,

1210
01:37:28,000 --> 01:37:30,680
we talked to some vets and they
said, hey, there's no way

1211
01:37:30,680 --> 01:37:34,359
you're going to remove the utters or
the whole sack of utters without damaging the

1212
01:37:34,399 --> 01:37:41,159
stomachs. He said, nobody's that
precise. I mean you're using a scalpel.

1213
01:37:41,279 --> 01:37:45,439
Well, these cuts aren't being made
with a scalpel. These things are

1214
01:37:45,479 --> 01:37:49,399
cut clean. They don't even show
signs of being quarterized. I mean when

1215
01:37:49,439 --> 01:37:53,199
you quarterize something, there's always a
burn mark. I mean even if they

1216
01:37:53,239 --> 01:37:55,760
were quarterizing something on your finger,
you would see the cut and then you

1217
01:37:55,760 --> 01:37:58,960
would see the closure and you would
see a little dark spot around it.

1218
01:37:59,039 --> 01:38:01,800
Well that's from the eat. Well, these things show no heat, So

1219
01:38:02,119 --> 01:38:05,159
what do they use it? We
don't have anything like that, And is

1220
01:38:05,199 --> 01:38:12,359
it the same for the people.
The precision cutting like that totally amazing.

1221
01:38:12,439 --> 01:38:15,239
So anyone, before we move on, if anyone wants to give us a

1222
01:38:15,319 --> 01:38:19,520
ring and talk to our guests tonight, that's six three nine sixty seven,

1223
01:38:19,800 --> 01:38:25,279
four oh three. Oh, you're
welcome to call in. Pardon me.

1224
01:38:26,479 --> 01:38:31,840
And in these these cases, are
they is there anything that can tie any

1225
01:38:31,880 --> 01:38:40,479
of them together, any similarities between
say the victims, or anything that at

1226
01:38:40,560 --> 01:38:44,800
all that makes any type of sense
where there's some type of connection. The

1227
01:38:44,880 --> 01:38:49,159
only besides the condition of the body
or the carcass, the only thing that

1228
01:38:49,279 --> 01:38:54,640
kind of ties them all together is
that they're in very remote areas when it

1229
01:38:54,680 --> 01:38:59,359
happens. The sergeant, you know, he's in the desert. The the

1230
01:39:00,720 --> 01:39:02,600
guy in Brazil, he's on an
island in the middle of a man made

1231
01:39:03,079 --> 01:39:08,119
waterway. Some cattle have been found
up on high ranges, in high mountain

1232
01:39:08,159 --> 01:39:11,760
areas where you know, people don't
even go up to check on the cattle.

1233
01:39:11,760 --> 01:39:14,039
I mean, they just turn them
loose for the feeding season or whatever,

1234
01:39:14,039 --> 01:39:17,680
and then they'll round them up come
spring or whatever. And these guys

1235
01:39:17,760 --> 01:39:23,119
are you know, they're out in
the middle of nowhere. And there have

1236
01:39:23,159 --> 01:39:27,000
been ranchers that have been had cattle
mutilated six or seven times on the same

1237
01:39:27,079 --> 01:39:31,600
ranch. Wow, one guy had
a cow mutilated fifty feet from the barn

1238
01:39:31,680 --> 01:39:35,000
door. Yeah, I never saw
or heard anything just went out that morning

1239
01:39:35,039 --> 01:39:40,560
and there laid the cow. Right. I've heard of some similar things to

1240
01:39:40,600 --> 01:39:44,159
that, like on the Skinwalker ranch
and stuff. Now, when we were

1241
01:39:45,920 --> 01:39:49,239
when I first asked you that question, what I meant was not the cows?

1242
01:39:49,359 --> 01:39:54,600
Was there anything that can connect the
people together? And before you answer

1243
01:39:54,680 --> 01:39:58,399
that, that calls on again.
I think I'm gonna dare try this.

1244
01:39:58,800 --> 01:40:02,800
So hello, call can you hear
me? Yep? Okay, go ahead?

1245
01:40:02,880 --> 01:40:06,760
Say your name? Where are you
calling from? John Tackett, Columbus,

1246
01:40:06,760 --> 01:40:10,239
Ohio? Hi? John? How
are you ken? How you doing?

1247
01:40:10,239 --> 01:40:14,199
And I'm Martin. I'm doing good. What's your question for the guests

1248
01:40:14,199 --> 01:40:25,760
tonight? My question is what actual
specific visual is the most common visual UFO

1249
01:40:25,880 --> 01:40:30,119
you actually see? Because you made
a comment earlier that dis are not really

1250
01:40:30,119 --> 01:40:33,119
as happening as they were, So
what would your perspective be on the most

1251
01:40:33,119 --> 01:40:39,760
common visual siding of the UFO?
What's the shape the most common visual is

1252
01:40:40,159 --> 01:40:45,800
I'm going to split between two because
they're almost one for one is the triangle

1253
01:40:45,359 --> 01:40:50,000
and the orbit? Okay, so
the orb? Now, what do you

1254
01:40:50,000 --> 01:40:54,479
think the orb is? You think
that's necessarily like what it would be our

1255
01:40:54,640 --> 01:41:00,399
like example of like of our you
know robotic planes we have at this point

1256
01:41:00,439 --> 01:41:04,479
out I'm talking about. Yeah,
I know what's talking about. But these

1257
01:41:04,640 --> 01:41:11,199
orbs have been seen. They first
came into visual range and photographic range during

1258
01:41:11,199 --> 01:41:16,760
World War two, the yeah they
called the five five YEP and then they

1259
01:41:16,840 --> 01:41:21,720
kind of disappeared after the war and
nothing was really seen of them again until

1260
01:41:21,800 --> 01:41:26,159
the late fifties. And they were
very sporadic. There weren't many of them

1261
01:41:26,199 --> 01:41:29,960
seeing. I think somebody did research
one time where they came up with about

1262
01:41:29,960 --> 01:41:34,720
one hundred reports and five years of
an ORB. Now I'll get eight to

1263
01:41:34,760 --> 01:41:40,199
ten reports a month of an orb. Okay, and how many and then

1264
01:41:40,359 --> 01:41:44,520
now here's some of the theories.
Some people think that they are scout ships.

1265
01:41:45,680 --> 01:41:48,920
Some people think that they are taking
samples. Because there are a lot

1266
01:41:48,960 --> 01:41:54,039
of reports where an orb is seen. It may it may be a large

1267
01:41:54,119 --> 01:42:00,399
orb. Smaller orbs will exit the
larger orb and they will those small orbs

1268
01:42:00,439 --> 01:42:03,079
will drop to the ground, they
will disappear, won't be seen again,

1269
01:42:03,159 --> 01:42:08,920
and then maybe ten fifteen minutes later
they'll come out of wherever they were and

1270
01:42:09,000 --> 01:42:15,239
go straight up, you know.
And my perspective on those orbs with as

1271
01:42:15,399 --> 01:42:18,920
drones as we know them in our
society. Does that make sense? Well,

1272
01:42:19,600 --> 01:42:21,920
yeah, and it could be.
I mean, it could be.

1273
01:42:23,000 --> 01:42:29,840
But I guess the part that always
quizzes me about these orbs is that there

1274
01:42:29,920 --> 01:42:31,800
was a case in Oregon not too
long ago. I believe it was last

1275
01:42:31,880 --> 01:42:34,199
year or the year before, and
as a matter of fact, it was

1276
01:42:34,199 --> 01:42:40,239
a moof On case. And the
gentleman is out cutting his lawn. He

1277
01:42:40,279 --> 01:42:43,520
can't work anymore. He has epilepsy
pretty bad, so he's outcutting his lawn.

1278
01:42:43,560 --> 01:42:45,920
He lives on a one way street
that has a turnaround at the end.

1279
01:42:46,000 --> 01:42:49,159
At the end of his street,
there's opposite to turnaround. It's a

1280
01:42:49,159 --> 01:42:53,239
tea intersection. On the other side
of tea intersections, a fence in the

1281
01:42:53,239 --> 01:42:56,800
field and a club of trees for
a farm. He sees an object go

1282
01:42:56,880 --> 01:43:00,039
behind the farm, which he describes
saucer shaped. It goes behind the trees.

1283
01:43:00,079 --> 01:43:03,000
He can't see it anymore. Next
thing you know, he says,

1284
01:43:03,079 --> 01:43:10,199
the ship craft goes back up and
disappears into the sky very fast. Out

1285
01:43:10,239 --> 01:43:15,439
from behind the trees comes an orb
that's about the size of a large beach

1286
01:43:15,479 --> 01:43:18,960
ball. Comes down the field,
crosses over top of the fence, comes

1287
01:43:19,039 --> 01:43:24,079
up the street, goes right past
him to the point where he can touch

1288
01:43:24,119 --> 01:43:27,000
it. The dogs in the neighborhood, which are normally quiet, and one

1289
01:43:27,000 --> 01:43:29,960
German shepherd that's never even barked a
day in his life, probably says,

1290
01:43:30,720 --> 01:43:33,079
is trying to rip apart to get
out of the house. His dog is

1291
01:43:33,119 --> 01:43:36,880
going bananas. The thing passes him. As he looks at it, he

1292
01:43:36,960 --> 01:43:45,600
said, it's actually like translucent,
but inside it's I had a buddy of

1293
01:43:45,600 --> 01:43:50,960
mine see one, and it looked
like a translited balloon for a distance,

1294
01:43:51,399 --> 01:43:58,319
can almost see froot. Was also
similar to a mirror. Yeah, yeah,

1295
01:43:58,359 --> 01:44:00,000
that's why he described. He's it
was almost like looking at in a

1296
01:44:00,039 --> 01:44:03,439
mirror with something moving around inside,
like different colors. Now, the thing

1297
01:44:04,039 --> 01:44:10,079
stops on top of a swer plate
and all kind of start flying off the

1298
01:44:10,079 --> 01:44:13,279
swer plate, and then it picks
itself up in about four or five foot

1299
01:44:13,279 --> 01:44:16,359
off the ground, goes across the
street and attaches itself to a pole that's

1300
01:44:16,399 --> 01:44:19,960
an electric pole, a pole that
generates electric brings the electric into those homes.

1301
01:44:19,960 --> 01:44:24,399
There's only a few homes on the
street. It detaches itself, it

1302
01:44:24,439 --> 01:44:27,920
starts to go down. Hold on, Hold on, now, when they

1303
01:44:28,000 --> 01:44:30,880
touch itself to the actual pole.
Did anybody in the area report any kind

1304
01:44:30,880 --> 01:44:34,600
of power is shues, Yes,
they had. There was a dropping power,

1305
01:44:34,600 --> 01:44:36,760
but nothing went off. I mean, in other words, a light

1306
01:44:36,800 --> 01:44:41,439
bend, like you know you're going
to lose power, right, everything dropped

1307
01:44:41,439 --> 01:44:45,239
down. By this time, there's
neighbors outside they see it. There's one

1308
01:44:45,279 --> 01:44:47,920
lady who's on her porch next door
to him, screaming at him to get

1309
01:44:47,920 --> 01:44:50,600
away. And he's just dumbfound that. He's just stand there looking at it.

1310
01:44:51,199 --> 01:44:55,560
And it comes back off the pole, goes back over to the plate,

1311
01:44:56,039 --> 01:44:59,960
raises up four or five foot in
the ground and just vaporizes. Gone.

1312
01:45:00,880 --> 01:45:11,119
Interesting. So it's almost like an
idealless more old things. All total,

1313
01:45:11,199 --> 01:45:15,359
there were four witnesses that saw the
same thing. Interesting. Well.

1314
01:45:15,439 --> 01:45:20,720
John Hay in the house was sick
for four days vomiting. Wow, John,

1315
01:45:20,760 --> 01:45:25,119
thanks for calling in. Okay,
Thanks Martin, Hey, you're awesome.

1316
01:45:25,239 --> 01:45:30,800
Thanks Hey, Hey, thanks.
Wow, that's quite the sighting,

1317
01:45:30,039 --> 01:45:33,920
you know, we had. Ah
And it's fine that that we're back on

1318
01:45:34,079 --> 01:45:40,359
UFOs. But someone wanted to ask
you a question in regards to what the

1319
01:45:40,399 --> 01:45:45,359
conversation was a minute ago and of
the human mutilations to the common phenomena of

1320
01:45:45,439 --> 01:45:51,640
black helicopters lights in the sky.
That well, there have been two reports

1321
01:45:51,680 --> 01:45:57,000
where black helicopters were seen in the
area, not overhead, but in the

1322
01:45:57,039 --> 01:46:00,399
area. And when I say in
the area within a mile of where the

1323
01:46:00,560 --> 01:46:04,159
mutilation was found, yeah, wow. And that was both cattle and human.

1324
01:46:04,640 --> 01:46:10,479
Now, when we were talking earlier
and I asked what the connections were,

1325
01:46:11,199 --> 01:46:15,920
it sounded like you started speaking about
the cattle mutilations and when you said

1326
01:46:15,920 --> 01:46:17,520
they were, you know, left
way out remotely and stuff like that,

1327
01:46:17,600 --> 01:46:21,680
I was asking about the human mutilations. Were there any is there anything that

1328
01:46:23,079 --> 01:46:28,680
connect could connect one to another or
any similarities that you're aware of other than

1329
01:46:28,720 --> 01:46:33,520
the wounds? No, that's it. Wow, yep, amazing. Now

1330
01:46:33,560 --> 01:46:39,359
are there people that are researched.
Are you one of the few people researching

1331
01:46:39,399 --> 01:46:43,159
this or are other people involved?
I pretty much think I'm the only one

1332
01:46:43,159 --> 01:46:48,640
that does it anymore. Hu.
And you said this started back in nineteen

1333
01:46:48,760 --> 01:46:54,159
fifty six, that's when that's yeah, that's when cases started popping up that

1334
01:46:55,720 --> 01:47:00,680
bodies were being found with strange markings
and missing parts. Yeah, and known

1335
01:47:00,880 --> 01:47:04,760
in the US. And you started
to say you were unsure about other countries,

1336
01:47:04,800 --> 01:47:09,039
do you know, I mean England. I believe you said other England.

1337
01:47:09,640 --> 01:47:14,359
England. Their researcher over there,
Richard Hall has been investigating these four

1338
01:47:15,319 --> 01:47:18,359
probably a lot longer than I have. And uh, you know, he's

1339
01:47:18,439 --> 01:47:25,000
gotten some really great stuff going on
over there. I'm familiar with with most

1340
01:47:25,000 --> 01:47:27,159
of his stuff. But you know, he's got a lot of stuff he's

1341
01:47:27,159 --> 01:47:30,479
holding back yet that he's got to
verify. And that's the biggest thing with

1342
01:47:30,560 --> 01:47:32,399
these cases. You got to verify
him before you go talking about them,

1343
01:47:32,399 --> 01:47:38,159
because you know, they're so strange, they're almost you almost think that somebody

1344
01:47:38,199 --> 01:47:41,720
just sat there and made them up. But you know the cases that have

1345
01:47:41,760 --> 01:47:44,600
come forward that you know, like
the autopsy reports we can read. You

1346
01:47:44,640 --> 01:47:45,680
know, I had to. I
had to get the one from Brazil,

1347
01:47:46,359 --> 01:47:51,319
uh translated from there, you know, their language to the US. But

1348
01:47:53,000 --> 01:47:59,760
it was worth the fifty bucks.
Excuse me, and not that people speak

1349
01:47:59,760 --> 01:48:05,319
porch around my area. Yeah.
So the is there anything like radiation or

1350
01:48:05,319 --> 01:48:11,600
anything like that, any any exposure, any other unusual things. No radiation

1351
01:48:11,760 --> 01:48:18,359
exposure, no burns, no,
uh no, how should I say damage

1352
01:48:18,359 --> 01:48:21,439
done to the body, you know, like with an axe or a sharp

1353
01:48:21,520 --> 01:48:26,680
knife or anything like that. Everything
is precision. They're all done the same

1354
01:48:26,720 --> 01:48:30,520
way, done in the same way, same parts are taken. Not much

1355
01:48:30,520 --> 01:48:34,680
body found, and you know,
it's just it's just very strange. And

1356
01:48:35,000 --> 01:48:41,880
approximately how long is the body?
Uh like, left wherever it is?

1357
01:48:41,920 --> 01:48:48,720
And of these indoor outdoor, where
are they found? Most outdoor? The

1358
01:48:49,039 --> 01:48:55,600
only one I know that was indoor
was the Cairo case. The others were

1359
01:48:55,600 --> 01:49:00,560
all outdoors bliss Idaho that was out
in the middle of nowhere, which is

1360
01:49:00,000 --> 01:49:02,960
strange because and when I first read
that report, it kind of took me

1361
01:49:02,960 --> 01:49:06,680
to Todd Cease because when Cease was
found the area where he lives and we've

1362
01:49:06,720 --> 01:49:10,039
been there, I mean, it's
so rocky that, you know, I

1363
01:49:10,079 --> 01:49:14,159
was wearing pretty heavy, heavy boots
and those rocks were hurting my feet.

1364
01:49:14,319 --> 01:49:17,560
I mean, it's just unbelievable how
rocky that area is. He was found

1365
01:49:17,560 --> 01:49:21,880
in his socks and his feet were
not damaged at all. There was no

1366
01:49:23,439 --> 01:49:27,920
his his feet angles top bottom were
unremarkable. There was no damage, no

1367
01:49:28,000 --> 01:49:32,319
scratches, no bruises, no nothing. Howd he get there? That's really

1368
01:49:32,319 --> 01:49:38,840
weird. Yeah, And there seemed
to me that there was another and maybe

1369
01:49:38,880 --> 01:49:45,079
I'm confusing another case, but that
people saw like someone the same thing,

1370
01:49:45,239 --> 01:49:48,600
like lifted up into a craft,
but the guy was really in rough shape

1371
01:49:48,600 --> 01:49:53,199
when he was found. Is that
Is that anything that sounds familiar to you?

1372
01:49:53,399 --> 01:49:55,920
That's the same case. It is
the same case. Yeah, that's

1373
01:49:55,920 --> 01:50:01,039
todd case. Yeah wow. See
everybody's conception of is that a UFO picked

1374
01:50:01,119 --> 01:50:03,399
him up, took him up,
and then you know, a day later,

1375
01:50:03,479 --> 01:50:05,880
dropped him off in the back you
know, out in the back country.

1376
01:50:06,319 --> 01:50:11,520
But you know, although we have
a report that the guys, the

1377
01:50:11,560 --> 01:50:15,039
fishermen and the farmer see something like
a man being pulled up into a craft

1378
01:50:15,079 --> 01:50:20,520
above the power lines, dressed in
his underwear, which at a distance from

1379
01:50:20,520 --> 01:50:24,560
where the river is to where he
was seen, and you know, it's

1380
01:50:24,640 --> 01:50:27,520
like come out of his driveway and
across the road you're at the river.

1381
01:50:28,760 --> 01:50:34,039
You have at that distance, you
know, a guy in his shorts and

1382
01:50:34,079 --> 01:50:36,560
a T shirt with socks on would
look like a guy in his underwear,

1383
01:50:36,560 --> 01:50:41,479
I guess. And that's how he
was bound. Cut off jeans, T

1384
01:50:41,600 --> 01:50:45,079
shirt and socks. That was it. Yeah wow. Now you mentioned in

1385
01:50:45,119 --> 01:50:50,520
the very beginning of the podcast that
or the live show that is that you

1386
01:50:53,119 --> 01:51:00,119
had ten separate chapters or whatever of
this organization and in Europe, are you

1387
01:51:00,640 --> 01:51:04,279
like in touch with these people constantly
or does everyone work on their own.

1388
01:51:05,039 --> 01:51:11,920
No, we're in continct contact with
everybody. They know what I'm doing.

1389
01:51:12,000 --> 01:51:15,640
I know what they're doing. Matter
of fact, that case that you were

1390
01:51:15,680 --> 01:51:24,199
talking about with Andro the uh the
ham operator and uh the airline pilot,

1391
01:51:24,239 --> 01:51:29,239
that was a mouf on Utah case, right, and the girl that investigated

1392
01:51:29,239 --> 01:51:33,479
that, Erica Lukes, is the
person that runs my uh U four top

1393
01:51:34,119 --> 01:51:41,720
branch in Utah. Oh as just
recently. Yeah, oh okay, good,

1394
01:51:41,920 --> 01:51:45,359
Yeah. I like Erica. She's
very nice. She's uh she's a

1395
01:51:45,399 --> 01:51:48,920
past guest on the show. Yeah, she's she's quite a lady. Yeah.

1396
01:51:49,000 --> 01:51:54,239
She she joined us about believe it's
three weeks now, that's just about

1397
01:51:54,319 --> 01:51:59,439
right. Uh. Yeah, we
have been playing phone tech because I wanted

1398
01:51:59,439 --> 01:52:04,800
to find out, uh what exactly
transpired. So I'm sure she'll share some

1399
01:52:04,840 --> 01:52:10,520
of that with me. But yes, uh wow. Well, you know,

1400
01:52:10,600 --> 01:52:14,960
we're getting near the end of the
show, and so we have maybe

1401
01:52:15,079 --> 01:52:19,199
five or five minutes or so left, four or five minutes, and do

1402
01:52:19,279 --> 01:52:27,000
you actually have a website yes,
Oh yeah, it's at four cop U

1403
01:52:27,039 --> 01:52:32,159
four cop dot com. It's a
UFO rc op dot com. No,

1404
01:52:32,359 --> 01:52:34,640
I mean, do you have a
personal website or is that? Can you

1405
01:52:34,760 --> 01:52:39,800
just be found on that one?
Uh oh no, I'm also on Facebook.

1406
01:52:39,800 --> 01:52:42,399
We have like three pages on Facebook. We have a U four cop

1407
01:52:42,439 --> 01:52:45,479
page. We have a UFO Research
Center Pennsylvania page. We have a JAR

1408
01:52:46,199 --> 01:52:49,520
page. I am the editor of
JAR Magazine, which is a journal of

1409
01:52:49,520 --> 01:52:57,520
a normal abduction research. And then
I have a personal page also. Now

1410
01:52:57,880 --> 01:53:02,720
are you Are you a retired and
you just do all this now like this

1411
01:53:02,840 --> 01:53:06,640
sounds like a full time job.
It is a full time job. When

1412
01:53:06,680 --> 01:53:10,239
I'm done with you, I'll be
up here in my office till about four

1413
01:53:10,279 --> 01:53:13,880
am. I'll grab six hours of
sleep and I'll be back at it.

1414
01:53:14,760 --> 01:53:20,000
Wow. And I retire two thousand
and thirteen. Uh huh. And then

1415
01:53:20,079 --> 01:53:26,159
basically this is taking your time.
Now we're one more question along these lines.

1416
01:53:26,199 --> 01:53:30,600
What's the furthest away that the farther
set you will travel for a case?

1417
01:53:30,760 --> 01:53:34,000
Does it depend on what the case
is? Not? Really? I

1418
01:53:34,000 --> 01:53:36,920
mean if somebody needs our like I
said before, if anyone needs our help,

1419
01:53:36,960 --> 01:53:40,800
whether it's something I can do here
in the office or through the other

1420
01:53:40,840 --> 01:53:45,279
groups, or if they require you
know that if they need that mobile unit

1421
01:53:45,319 --> 01:53:48,159
on the site of what they think
they have, it's a catimulation whatever or

1422
01:53:48,159 --> 01:53:55,520
whatever whatever comes up. If it's
within Pennsylvania, no problem. I can

1423
01:53:55,560 --> 01:54:00,319
be either into Pennsylvania within five hours
or less way less. And if it's

1424
01:54:00,439 --> 01:54:03,479
like say, I'm going out to
Missouri to investigate something, as long as

1425
01:54:03,520 --> 01:54:06,800
they can help with the gas and
tolls, I'm on my way. I

1426
01:54:06,880 --> 01:54:13,039
see. Now, do you have
pictures of this rig? We just took

1427
01:54:13,039 --> 01:54:15,199
the old ones down? The new
pictures of the new. We just bought

1428
01:54:15,199 --> 01:54:23,039
a twenty sixteen Ford transit and it's
something we always because the other one was

1429
01:54:23,319 --> 01:54:29,720
a'll Ford. It was a two
thousand and twelve, but it was low

1430
01:54:29,840 --> 01:54:30,960
top. This one we can walk
around in. Inside. We have a

1431
01:54:31,000 --> 01:54:34,039
lot more shelving in it. We
just got it back from those folks yesterday.

1432
01:54:34,079 --> 01:54:38,239
And for the last three days now, I've been shuffling equipment in and

1433
01:54:38,279 --> 01:54:42,520
out and in. Now we'll have
everything rate to roll in the next By

1434
01:54:42,520 --> 01:54:45,600
the end of this week, everything
will be finished. The only thing that's

1435
01:54:45,640 --> 01:54:48,000
not won't be finished for two weeks
is the radio people have to put all

1436
01:54:48,159 --> 01:54:50,920
radios back in. Of course,
we're going to do a different setup this

1437
01:54:50,920 --> 01:54:54,760
time. We're going to put radios
in a console between the seats, just

1438
01:54:54,800 --> 01:54:58,079
like a police car, instead of
hanging them off the ceiling and all that

1439
01:54:58,079 --> 01:55:01,880
stuff. Yeah, almost like storm
chasers in a way. We make them

1440
01:55:01,920 --> 01:55:06,279
look sick. We got more equipment
than they awesome. Well, this has

1441
01:55:06,319 --> 01:55:12,880
been a lot of fun. I've
really enjoyed speaking you to you tonight and

1442
01:55:13,039 --> 01:55:18,399
my pleasure. Yes, and so
anyone out there that would like to contact

1443
01:55:18,560 --> 01:55:23,720
you for a UFO report, it's
instead of going to the other two that

1444
01:55:23,760 --> 01:55:28,000
you hear so much about. They're
welcome to contact you. Yeah. They

1445
01:55:28,000 --> 01:55:30,359
can contact me about anything, whether
it's a question they want answered, or

1446
01:55:30,359 --> 01:55:32,680
if there's something I can find in
my database, or they may have a

1447
01:55:32,680 --> 01:55:38,640
photograph that want us to look at. We use Photoshop CMS seven to go

1448
01:55:38,760 --> 01:55:44,239
over our photographs and a couple other
programs we have, or they have a

1449
01:55:44,279 --> 01:55:47,760
case that they want looked at.
The only thing I won't do is I

1450
01:55:47,760 --> 01:55:51,880
won't interfere if somebody else's investigating the
case. Yeah that makes sense, Yeah,

1451
01:55:53,079 --> 01:55:54,960
I just I just don't do that. I mean, you know,

1452
01:55:55,000 --> 01:55:58,520
that's just bad. That's just bad
juju. Yeah, totally get that.

1453
01:55:59,600 --> 01:56:02,239
All right, Well, it's time
to go, and I want to thank

1454
01:56:02,279 --> 01:56:05,079
you so much. It's been a
real pleasure and I hope to talk to

1455
01:56:05,079 --> 01:56:10,800
you soon. Oh absolutely anytime.
All right, you take care, you

1456
01:56:10,880 --> 01:56:15,560
too, take care nowe thanks bye
bye, all right everyone, thanks so

1457
01:56:15,720 --> 01:56:18,840
much for listening. And it's been
a great show I think and hope you

1458
01:56:18,960 --> 01:56:23,560
enjoyed it. And if you're listening
this far, you're either listening live,

1459
01:56:23,760 --> 01:56:27,680
or you're listening on the Dark Matter
Digital Network, or you're a supporter of

1460
01:56:27,720 --> 01:56:31,319
the show and listening to the podcast. Remember you can still donate, doesn't

1461
01:56:31,319 --> 01:56:35,239
matter what it is for the buzz
off for Cancer for Kids that I did

1462
01:56:35,319 --> 01:56:39,680
and yes I'm bald as a cucumber. You can check that out on podcast

1463
01:56:39,840 --> 01:56:43,720
UFO. Thanks for listening. We
have the one and only Stanton T.

1464
01:56:44,000 --> 01:56:48,199
Friedman is on next week and we'll
be back then, same time, same

1465
01:56:48,239 --> 01:57:05,239
place. Remember to keep your eyes
to this guy and your curiosity hid anything s