WEBVTT 1 00:00:02.960 --> 00:00:10.480 Big Food and Beyond with Cliff and Bobo. These guys are your favorites, 2 00:00:10.880 --> 00:00:18.600 so like to subscribe and raid it five stary s and me right, just 3 00:00:18.800 --> 00:00:27.039 go on Wish today listening, oh watching always keep its watching. And now 4 00:00:27.079 --> 00:00:33.039 your hosts Cliff Berrickman and James Boobo Fay. Hey Cliff, Hi Bobo, 5 00:00:33.079 --> 00:00:37.280 how you doing man? Good man? I got us a special guest today. 6 00:00:38.000 --> 00:00:40.799 You've been talking about this guest for a little while and you haven't told 7 00:00:40.840 --> 00:00:43.799 me who it is or or anything like that, so I'm kind of excited 8 00:00:43.840 --> 00:00:46.799 to learn a little bit about it. Well, you'll recognize the report, 9 00:00:46.799 --> 00:00:52.960 I'm sure, Sarah. She was a female backpacker back in the late nineties. 10 00:00:53.039 --> 00:00:57.719 You had an incredible encounter up in the Marble Mountains. I'll let her 11 00:00:57.719 --> 00:01:00.560 tell the story, but you will recognize that. Promise. Fantastic, fantastic. 12 00:01:00.719 --> 00:01:04.000 Let's bring her on, Sarah, Welcome on board. This is Cliff. 13 00:01:04.519 --> 00:01:07.359 Yeah. Actually I don't want to confuse you, Sarah. That was 14 00:01:07.359 --> 00:01:11.120 actually Bobo who said that. But I understand I get us mixed up sometimes 15 00:01:11.159 --> 00:01:12.840 too. But yeah, I'm Cliff. It's nice to meet you, Sarah. 16 00:01:14.200 --> 00:01:19.519 Nice to meet you too. Cliff and Bobo's voice is unmistakable, So 17 00:01:19.719 --> 00:01:23.239 thank you both for having me. His voice is like the grumbling of a 18 00:01:23.319 --> 00:01:29.439 volcano before belches. So yeah, Sarah's report. They try to get a 19 00:01:29.439 --> 00:01:30.799 hold of her for finding Bigfoot. I couldn't track her down. I thought 20 00:01:32.200 --> 00:01:34.640 there's a fun over here. It's like twenty three years old. I'll try 21 00:01:34.680 --> 00:01:37.079 it anyways, And I tried it. She still had the same number. 22 00:01:37.439 --> 00:01:42.239 Oh nice, And she's not just your average witness, she's got full accreditations. 23 00:01:42.280 --> 00:01:44.319 Can you tell us a little about your your background, Sarah, then 24 00:01:44.319 --> 00:01:48.359 you're going into your story. Uh? Yeah, A little bit about my 25 00:01:48.400 --> 00:01:53.400 background is I grew up in California in the Bay Area, and my dad 26 00:01:53.400 --> 00:02:00.040 and I were avid outdoors people, and he taught me how to fish and 27 00:02:00.200 --> 00:02:07.599 hike and a little bit of backpacking. And then when I went to college 28 00:02:07.360 --> 00:02:13.439 in the nineties up at Chico State, I really became an avid backpacker. 29 00:02:14.360 --> 00:02:20.719 So I sort of followed this path that maybe my career would be in the 30 00:02:20.800 --> 00:02:27.800 natural resources and outdoor sciences. And I had worked in the summer of ninety 31 00:02:27.879 --> 00:02:32.080 six for the Klamath National Forest, and so I learned a lot about that 32 00:02:32.240 --> 00:02:37.319 area, and so the following summer, I was going to summer school and 33 00:02:38.479 --> 00:02:44.199 I wanted to plan out a big one hundred miles solo hike, and so 34 00:02:44.280 --> 00:02:49.439 I did that. And not to get too far into the story, I 35 00:02:49.520 --> 00:02:54.919 did eventually obtain a science degree and actually my forester's license here in California. 36 00:02:55.000 --> 00:03:00.560 So I'm a registered professional forester. I live in northern California. And that 37 00:03:00.759 --> 00:03:04.280 is that the way you make your living today? Still, Yeah, I'm 38 00:03:04.759 --> 00:03:10.000 an active licensed forester. I do a lot of wildfire safety planning. I 39 00:03:10.039 --> 00:03:14.719 see. Okay, very good. So and so you had an encounter at 40 00:03:14.719 --> 00:03:17.360 one point with a sasquatch. What's the context of that, Like, what 41 00:03:17.400 --> 00:03:21.599 were you doing at the time? And it was that on that one hundred 42 00:03:21.599 --> 00:03:24.199 mile trek that you just mentioned. That's correct. It was the second night 43 00:03:24.280 --> 00:03:30.120 in Oh wow, yeah, so Sarah, you can't what was the like 44 00:03:30.199 --> 00:03:36.840 physical location mirk. So I was the second night in on ae hundred mile 45 00:03:36.919 --> 00:03:43.039 backpacking trip, and I had hiked a fair amount the first day and then 46 00:03:43.840 --> 00:03:46.360 I noticed on my map that there was this lake that I wanted to try 47 00:03:46.400 --> 00:03:51.680 and get to. So I made it to the lake within the late afternoon 48 00:03:51.960 --> 00:03:58.000 evening the second day and then just beyond the lake. Although the lake was 49 00:03:58.319 --> 00:04:01.400 beautiful, it was a little bit smaller than I had imagined. And just 50 00:04:01.479 --> 00:04:05.240 beyond the lake, I could kind of catch a glimpse of what looked like 51 00:04:05.280 --> 00:04:10.759 a big rock out cropping, and so I continued onto that, and when 52 00:04:10.800 --> 00:04:15.639 I got there, it was like this football field of a flat escarpment, 53 00:04:16.680 --> 00:04:21.759 this big rock, solid rock field, which, now, knowing what I 54 00:04:21.800 --> 00:04:28.480 know about the area, I believe was a large marble escarpment. And so 55 00:04:28.560 --> 00:04:32.040 I wanted to camp there that night. So you set up camp on this 56 00:04:32.519 --> 00:04:39.120 outcropping, I guess, And did the encounter happened during the day at night? 57 00:04:39.199 --> 00:04:43.199 Like, how did the whole thing begin? So I didn't bring a 58 00:04:43.240 --> 00:04:47.120 tent on the trip. It was hot and it was forecasted to be very 59 00:04:47.160 --> 00:04:50.759 hot for the whole time. In fact, along the trip I had left 60 00:04:50.959 --> 00:04:56.439 articles of clothing like a green jacket and a few things where I was like, 61 00:04:56.680 --> 00:04:59.480 I'm not going to need these things, and you know, lighten my 62 00:04:59.519 --> 00:05:02.399 load. I'm actually going to make it through this trip. So I didn't 63 00:05:02.399 --> 00:05:06.800 have a tent, and so when I got to the the site that I 64 00:05:06.800 --> 00:05:12.839 wanted to camp at, I set up my bag, my sleeping bag, 65 00:05:12.920 --> 00:05:16.120 and you know, my backpack and kind of unpacked a little bit right there. 66 00:05:16.160 --> 00:05:20.279 And I knew that I was going to encounter a bear or two, 67 00:05:20.399 --> 00:05:25.639 or however many, and I was pretty concerned about bears on the trip, 68 00:05:26.199 --> 00:05:30.680 and so I packed up all my food stuff and my stove and hiked way 69 00:05:30.680 --> 00:05:36.279 over to the far side of the escarpment and cooked my dinner. I was 70 00:05:36.639 --> 00:05:42.040 pretty crashed out and wanted to go to bed, and it was kind of 71 00:05:42.040 --> 00:05:46.519 early, it was maybe just dusk, so late August, and I was 72 00:05:46.560 --> 00:05:50.480 starting to get dark, and I'm laying there in my bed and I fell 73 00:05:50.480 --> 00:05:58.240 asleep, and I was sleeping hard, and I woke up in the middle 74 00:05:58.240 --> 00:06:03.240 of the night to sound. It was really far away and very faint, 75 00:06:03.759 --> 00:06:09.279 and I could hear it, and at first I thought it's probably an owl. 76 00:06:10.279 --> 00:06:14.839 It kept going and I was kind of trying to go back to sleep, 77 00:06:15.759 --> 00:06:20.399 and the way that I was situated on the escarpment with my sleeping bag, 78 00:06:20.439 --> 00:06:28.399 I was basically feet facing down this canyon or ravine, and it was 79 00:06:28.480 --> 00:06:36.240 a big canyon. So I keep hearing the noise and now reminding you, 80 00:06:36.639 --> 00:06:41.639 this was twenty three years ago, and so I'm remembering this right now, 81 00:06:41.680 --> 00:06:45.560 as I tell you guys, what happened. So what I was hearing was 82 00:06:46.240 --> 00:06:53.040 repetitive and it just didn't stop. It was still faint and very far away, 83 00:06:53.920 --> 00:06:57.680 but it was repetitive. So then I thought, after I thought maybe 84 00:06:57.720 --> 00:07:00.199 it was an owl and I was just going to go back to sleep. 85 00:07:00.000 --> 00:07:05.120 Then I thought, well, maybe it's a bugling elk. And so I 86 00:07:05.160 --> 00:07:13.920 was laying there and sure enough it continued without pause, and it was over 87 00:07:14.319 --> 00:07:21.720 and over and over again of what I originally called this inward howl, and 88 00:07:23.399 --> 00:07:27.399 it was one after the next, and I will tell you that it started 89 00:07:27.439 --> 00:07:32.639 to grow just slightly louder. And so then I started thinking to myself, 90 00:07:33.240 --> 00:07:39.000 Okay, probably not an owl, maybe not a bugling elk. I did 91 00:07:39.759 --> 00:07:44.959 think maybe this was a mountain lion. And then eventually I ended up having 92 00:07:45.079 --> 00:07:49.439 some scary thoughts that maybe it was a man or a person, really a 93 00:07:49.439 --> 00:07:57.519 man that was crazy or drunk way down in the bottom of a wilderness canyon. 94 00:07:57.560 --> 00:08:01.879 And I have to be honest, that thought and me went away because 95 00:08:01.439 --> 00:08:07.800 of the unlikelihood of that, and all along it kept going. And so 96 00:08:09.240 --> 00:08:11.920 now I'm in my mind going, what in the world is that, and 97 00:08:11.959 --> 00:08:22.120 it's getting louder, and it keeps going, and it's clearly running and howling 98 00:08:22.879 --> 00:08:26.560 up the creek down at the bottom of this canyon that I'm sleeping up above. 99 00:08:28.160 --> 00:08:33.679 And so I thought, okay, whatever, it is, no problem. 100 00:08:35.360 --> 00:08:39.759 I'm way up here at the top of this canyon and really at the 101 00:08:39.759 --> 00:08:45.480 base of a peak, so there's nothing that could get up here. And 102 00:08:45.519 --> 00:08:48.600 earlier in the night, when it was still light, I had definitely looked 103 00:08:48.600 --> 00:08:52.159 over the canyon a bunch, and so I knew that I was right over 104 00:08:54.639 --> 00:09:00.240 like a short cliff base with a big screen field down below and in the 105 00:09:00.320 --> 00:09:03.559 ravine, and it was huge. I mean, the relief in those canyons 106 00:09:03.600 --> 00:09:09.080 can easily be two thousand feet. So as it started to get louder and 107 00:09:09.159 --> 00:09:16.720 louder and clearly running and calling or doing whatever it was doing, crying or 108 00:09:18.240 --> 00:09:24.080 wherever you want to call it, all the way up and repetitively, I 109 00:09:24.120 --> 00:09:31.399 started thinking, this thing is running up the canyon and is running to the 110 00:09:31.399 --> 00:09:35.720 boulder field the screen pile down below. So then I kind of thought, 111 00:09:37.399 --> 00:09:41.600 well, that'll surely stop it in its tracks. And so the time period 112 00:09:41.679 --> 00:09:46.200 is a little bit foggy in my recollection. In all honesty, I think 113 00:09:46.240 --> 00:09:50.679 that it was probably about forty five minutes of hearing it down in the creek 114 00:09:50.720 --> 00:09:58.080 bottom in the ravine until it got to what was the boulder field down below, 115 00:09:58.120 --> 00:10:05.559 and when it got to bolder field again continuously howling or inward howling. 116 00:10:07.399 --> 00:10:11.440 At that point I could start to hear it. I could start to hear 117 00:10:11.559 --> 00:10:22.799 clearly that there was something running and frankly hauling ass and it was going fast 118 00:10:22.159 --> 00:10:28.720 through this boulder field, carrying you know, running and sort of carrying its 119 00:10:28.720 --> 00:10:33.879 body. And I could just start to make out rocks moving, but just 120 00:10:33.919 --> 00:10:37.519 faintly. Obviously at this point it was much louder. It was right below 121 00:10:37.559 --> 00:10:43.120 me by two hundred feet. It started, you know, kind of propelling 122 00:10:43.159 --> 00:10:48.799 itself up what was the boulder field. I'm scared, you guys. I 123 00:10:48.799 --> 00:10:54.639 I was so scared. I didn't know anything. I didn't know what it 124 00:10:54.759 --> 00:10:58.679 was. I didn't know if it was coming for me. I just was 125 00:11:00.200 --> 00:11:07.080 laying there as scared as you can imagine, completely breathless, completely motionless, 126 00:11:07.759 --> 00:11:11.399 and thinking, Okay, it's going to get to the bottom of the cliff, 127 00:11:11.960 --> 00:11:22.279 and there's no way any bugling elk or crazy person or whatever could climb 128 00:11:22.399 --> 00:11:28.720 up that cliff, and I, being an outdoors person in adventure, I 129 00:11:28.759 --> 00:11:33.440 was familiar with rock climbing a little bit. At that point. I went 130 00:11:33.480 --> 00:11:37.440 on to do some more rock climbing, but I knew that, you know, 131 00:11:37.519 --> 00:11:41.200 no one could climb that without ropes. It was easily a five to 132 00:11:41.279 --> 00:11:48.240 nine maybe a five eight pitch. It would have been a crumbly, very 133 00:11:48.279 --> 00:11:56.799 steep cliff face, and it was at least fifty feet tall, if not, 134 00:11:56.039 --> 00:12:01.840 I don't know, seventy feet seventy five feet. Sure enough, the 135 00:12:01.879 --> 00:12:07.320 thing started and you could hear it pulling itself and climbing up the cliff. 136 00:12:07.399 --> 00:12:11.440 And it was really interesting because when it got to the bottom and started the 137 00:12:11.440 --> 00:12:18.320 climbing was the first that it had taken a real break from the howling or 138 00:12:18.360 --> 00:12:22.000 the whooping, and so it sort of caught its breath, and it had 139 00:12:22.039 --> 00:12:28.639 some that I could hear, some grunts and some slight pitches, but not 140 00:12:28.600 --> 00:12:35.519 the repetitious whoops that later in the call. I can describe to you guys 141 00:12:35.519 --> 00:12:41.279 what I heard. But anyways, things started climbing up the cliff, and 142 00:12:41.360 --> 00:12:46.000 I'm at the very top of it, and I'm just off to the side 143 00:12:46.519 --> 00:12:52.879 of what was a little creek that sort of defined the escarpment and the cliff 144 00:12:54.320 --> 00:13:00.480 and then down into the ravine. It was just off to sort of the 145 00:13:00.600 --> 00:13:07.559 river right side of that little creek or brook that was really more of ice 146 00:13:07.639 --> 00:13:13.519 melt from the peak above. By about I don't know if I was fifteen 147 00:13:13.559 --> 00:13:18.039 feet or thirty feet, but I was right in there, fifteen to thirty 148 00:13:18.039 --> 00:13:20.519 feet off the side of that little creek that wouldn't have been more than a 149 00:13:20.519 --> 00:13:26.360 foot or two wide. So I just kept laying in my bag and essentially 150 00:13:26.720 --> 00:13:33.440 praying that I wasn't coming to get gobbled up. It continued to climb successfully 151 00:13:33.639 --> 00:13:37.519 and pretty quickly, and when it got to the top of the cliff, 152 00:13:37.559 --> 00:13:45.519 it was so amazing. The thing just pulled itself up and over. It 153 00:13:45.720 --> 00:13:54.120 just used whatever arms it had and hoisted itself up and almost like it jumped 154 00:13:54.000 --> 00:13:58.519 up and over the top. So at that moment you put your eyes on 155 00:13:58.559 --> 00:14:01.320 it, you could actually see the thing that you've been listening to for the 156 00:14:01.360 --> 00:14:05.679 last forty five minutes at that point, that's correct, and there was moonlight. 157 00:14:07.799 --> 00:14:11.240 I didn't want to move my eyes, I didn't want to move anything. 158 00:14:11.240 --> 00:14:16.080 I didn't want to breathe. I didn't want to move my eyes or 159 00:14:16.120 --> 00:14:22.960 my head, but instinct I had to. I had to see what was, 160 00:14:24.679 --> 00:14:28.720 you know, coming for me or whatever. And it wasn't coming for 161 00:14:28.799 --> 00:14:33.240 me, I'll tell you that now. But nevertheless, my eyes just went 162 00:14:33.120 --> 00:14:39.919 slowly and steadily to the left and right. Then it started up as if 163 00:14:39.960 --> 00:14:46.879 it was going to start running again, and took a big breath and sort 164 00:14:46.919 --> 00:14:54.320 of hesitated and stopped just for a split second and looked and looked at me, 165 00:14:54.720 --> 00:14:58.960 and I looked at it, and the only thing that I can describe 166 00:15:00.399 --> 00:15:05.480 of what I saw was similar to a gorilla. I think I scared the 167 00:15:05.480 --> 00:15:11.000 crap out of it. Honestly. I think that it was at that moment 168 00:15:11.600 --> 00:15:16.039 just as scared as I was, and realized it wasn't alone thinking that it 169 00:15:16.159 --> 00:15:22.840 was, and I still didn't move and was extremely frightened, if not on 170 00:15:22.879 --> 00:15:28.600 the verge of a heart attack. That's how I am right now. And 171 00:15:30.399 --> 00:15:33.320 at that point, so it looks to the left over, you know, 172 00:15:33.360 --> 00:15:39.519 so we're facing opposite directions, so we both just barely look to our left, 173 00:15:39.399 --> 00:15:45.720 and as soon as it notices that there's someone or something else right there, 174 00:15:46.399 --> 00:15:54.879 it just stands up and howls and takes off so fast. Anyways, 175 00:15:54.879 --> 00:15:58.080 it took off and was at the base of that peak in probably ten minutes, 176 00:15:58.240 --> 00:16:03.960 maybe fifteen minutes, and then it continued to climb up that peak, 177 00:16:03.639 --> 00:16:11.279 doing the howl, the travel howl for another only like twenty or thirty minutes. 178 00:16:11.200 --> 00:16:15.879 And I'm still laying in my bag, just as scared as can be. 179 00:16:17.080 --> 00:16:22.559 And it stayed up there for hours and hours until almost sunrise, and 180 00:16:22.600 --> 00:16:30.759 it called the whole time as loud as you can imagine, consistently, one 181 00:16:30.799 --> 00:16:37.559 after the other, and just stayed there, calling out, stay tuned for 182 00:16:37.679 --> 00:16:41.639 more Bigfoot and beyond with Cliff and Bobo will be right back. After these 183 00:16:41.639 --> 00:16:52.120 messages, you said that when it saw you, what it noticed you up 184 00:16:52.159 --> 00:16:56.159 there, it let out a howl, and then a moment later you referred 185 00:16:56.159 --> 00:17:00.639 to a traveling howl. So that vocalization that it emitted when it saw you 186 00:17:00.799 --> 00:17:03.880 was different than the other ones. It was like a it was more of 187 00:17:03.920 --> 00:17:07.480 a grunt. It was more of like the grunt that I was hearing when 188 00:17:07.480 --> 00:17:11.359 it was climbing, and it was like a but it was like a hiccup. 189 00:17:14.279 --> 00:17:21.359 Oh okay, okay. And then that's the practice I did the same. 190 00:17:21.440 --> 00:17:26.319 Yeah, I get it. So the howl, the travel howl, 191 00:17:26.559 --> 00:17:30.160 that remained pretty consistent from when you first started hearing it to when it reached 192 00:17:30.200 --> 00:17:33.720 the top of the mountain of forty five minutes an hour or so later. 193 00:17:33.680 --> 00:17:41.279 It was notably consistent and methodical. Okay, Well, to describe that howl, 194 00:17:41.400 --> 00:17:45.240 I'm curious what that was like. It was a whoop along howl, 195 00:17:45.319 --> 00:17:48.960 a scream, high pitched, low pitch. The frequency, what can you 196 00:17:49.000 --> 00:17:56.680 tell us about that? So I've always described it to my closest confidence as 197 00:17:56.920 --> 00:18:07.319 an inward howl or an inward drawl. And it had a fairly high but 198 00:18:07.559 --> 00:18:12.599 medium high pitch, and it was it was created. It would be created 199 00:18:14.039 --> 00:18:19.759 in drawing the lungs in and so the travel or running how how that's what 200 00:18:19.839 --> 00:18:30.440 I'm calling it would be like wow. So that kind of frequency, like, 201 00:18:30.480 --> 00:18:33.799 that's how often that happened. And that's the approximately the length of the 202 00:18:33.839 --> 00:18:38.640 vocalization you heard as well, from when the moment I heard it until it 203 00:18:38.720 --> 00:18:44.720 got to the bottom of the cliff field or excuse me, the the cliff 204 00:18:44.920 --> 00:18:49.880 in the rock field, it was consistent and just like that wow. And 205 00:18:49.920 --> 00:18:55.680 so that was probably close to an hour and a half, maybe two hours 206 00:18:55.880 --> 00:18:59.559 of hearing that. Oh okay, I had the timeline a little off. 207 00:18:59.680 --> 00:19:03.240 Yeah, Well, so what I was saying is it was probably close to 208 00:19:03.759 --> 00:19:07.920 forty five minutes down in the bottom of the ravine, so kind of the 209 00:19:07.960 --> 00:19:17.880 flat area, and then another say twenty five maybe forty minutes through the rock 210 00:19:17.920 --> 00:19:22.559 field, and crazy enough, I want to say that it climbed that cliff 211 00:19:22.599 --> 00:19:27.680 in like five minutes. It was fast. Maybe it was ten, but 212 00:19:29.440 --> 00:19:33.640 really I think it was a total of from the time I started hearing it 213 00:19:33.680 --> 00:19:38.400 to the time it got to me my location was an hour and a half. 214 00:19:38.759 --> 00:19:42.359 And that's in real person time, not the I'm getting the crap scared 215 00:19:42.400 --> 00:19:47.240 out of me alone in the Marble Mountains time. Imagine it felt like an 216 00:19:47.240 --> 00:19:52.000 eternity for you. It felt like an eternity for sure, And to this 217 00:19:52.200 --> 00:19:56.759 day, I really I do struggle with putting some real time to that. 218 00:19:57.000 --> 00:20:03.759 But I bet was that a solo extended backpacking trip. I don't think it 219 00:20:03.880 --> 00:20:11.359 was Bobo No, And I continued on the trip. I actually had a 220 00:20:11.400 --> 00:20:15.920 goal. I was going to try and go off route and go in to 221 00:20:15.359 --> 00:20:23.240 the wilderness off trail, but I really couldn't find my way with just wayfinding, 222 00:20:23.359 --> 00:20:26.279 and I did not want to get lost, and I knew my dad 223 00:20:26.279 --> 00:20:33.200 would kill me if I got lost, So I went back to the trail 224 00:20:33.279 --> 00:20:38.680 and continued on and carried out a full It was actually ninety eight mile trips. 225 00:20:40.079 --> 00:20:45.279 That must have changed something with you on that trip, Like that's the 226 00:20:45.359 --> 00:20:49.960 second day in on one hundred mile trip. That certainly must have planted some 227 00:20:51.039 --> 00:20:52.960 sort of seed in you for the rest of the trip, just thinking like, 228 00:20:53.240 --> 00:20:59.039 holy crap, those things are out here. Those things were out there, 229 00:20:59.119 --> 00:21:03.440 and I knew that, but I was in such shock that I put 230 00:21:03.480 --> 00:21:07.680 it in the depths of my mind. I was so focused on doing this 231 00:21:07.759 --> 00:21:15.000 trip, Hello type A, that I just I wanted to do the trip. 232 00:21:15.079 --> 00:21:18.839 It was a huge goal for me that whole year, and I just 233 00:21:18.960 --> 00:21:25.519 I didn't want to let it go because of this creature that came through my 234 00:21:25.599 --> 00:21:29.720 camp. Were they on your radar before that trip? I mean, obviously 235 00:21:29.960 --> 00:21:33.839 of course you were aware of sasquatches, but like, did you think they're 236 00:21:33.039 --> 00:21:36.799 real? Did you think that they're just like a normal forest sort of thing 237 00:21:36.839 --> 00:21:41.240 out there that I could run into? Very much on my radar by then, 238 00:21:41.359 --> 00:21:49.799 because the summer before is when I worked for the FEDS and spent my 239 00:21:49.839 --> 00:21:55.440 summer up in the Klamath the whole time. And I'd heard stories and I 240 00:21:55.519 --> 00:22:02.680 read that great book about the biodiversity of the sisq Oh, I know what 241 00:22:02.720 --> 00:22:06.359 you're talking about, and they mentioned it the klimathnot is that it the Klamath, 242 00:22:06.440 --> 00:22:08.839 Knot that's it? Yeah, there you go, good one. Yeah. 243 00:22:08.880 --> 00:22:15.240 So they were just barely in my mind. So that year that I 244 00:22:15.279 --> 00:22:18.279 was working for the FEDS, we were doing a survey. We were doing 245 00:22:18.680 --> 00:22:26.200 a recreational user survey, and I actually ended up interviewing this group of cave 246 00:22:26.400 --> 00:22:30.880 expeditioners that were heading into the Marbles and they were going to try and do 247 00:22:30.960 --> 00:22:37.480 some mapping of the caves. And they had mentioned at that interview, you 248 00:22:37.519 --> 00:22:44.400 know, yeah, there's there's caves out there, and we think that that 249 00:22:45.119 --> 00:22:51.640 is habitat and home to some of the Sasquatch and possibly last remaining Sasquatch on 250 00:22:51.680 --> 00:22:55.519 the planet. And at the time, I mean I was even a year 251 00:22:55.559 --> 00:22:59.279 younger then, So when I was like eighteen, I kind of was like, 252 00:22:59.680 --> 00:23:04.799 huh, okay, marked that one in the books. And so, 253 00:23:06.640 --> 00:23:10.680 I mean I knew that there was the concept of these things being out there. 254 00:23:10.799 --> 00:23:12.400 And like I said, I you know, I grew up as an 255 00:23:12.559 --> 00:23:22.480 outdoors person with my dad, but nothing like what I had actually experienced. 256 00:23:22.519 --> 00:23:26.519 You had on your one the year before. You've made an interesting observation. 257 00:23:26.799 --> 00:23:33.119 You thought that it sounded like I was wounded. Yeah. So the reason 258 00:23:33.119 --> 00:23:38.440 why I was turned on to the book That Klamath Not was I met an 259 00:23:38.440 --> 00:23:45.079 individual out there and I myself and my partner, my working partner, who 260 00:23:45.119 --> 00:23:48.480 I wish I could get a hold of, but I have no idea how 261 00:23:48.480 --> 00:23:52.119 to get a hold of this person. Anyways, he and I both had 262 00:23:52.319 --> 00:23:59.799 this creature come through our camp late one night, and it was it was 263 00:23:59.839 --> 00:24:04.880 like limping and dragging a foot, so it was like and it was doing 264 00:24:04.920 --> 00:24:11.079 this same kind of almost like a howl or howl or a whoop, but 265 00:24:11.119 --> 00:24:17.039 it was more of a cry and it cried out and it was just parallel 266 00:24:17.079 --> 00:24:19.519 to us. And that was right there on the Klamath River, and it 267 00:24:19.599 --> 00:24:25.799 was parallel to us, and it was it was seemingly injured just by the 268 00:24:25.839 --> 00:24:29.720 sound, but we couldn't see it. We were shining our flashlights up there, 269 00:24:29.759 --> 00:24:34.720 we couldn't see anything. And then it just stopped. There was nothing 270 00:24:36.519 --> 00:24:41.880 for like probably ten minutes, and then there was this splash in the river 271 00:24:41.799 --> 00:24:45.319 and we think that it jumped in the river and swam off. Oh so 272 00:24:45.359 --> 00:24:51.319 you had an entirely different encounter the year before during that when you're working for 273 00:24:51.359 --> 00:24:53.440 the FEDS. Is that what I'm going right? Right? Okay, right? 274 00:24:53.559 --> 00:25:03.799 But I mean hearing in pose it injured sasquatch, Yeah, was pretty 275 00:25:03.799 --> 00:25:10.240 far from my fathom ability. And uh and then so yeah, you're right, 276 00:25:10.279 --> 00:25:12.319 Cliff, there was somewhere in the back of my mind where I was 277 00:25:12.880 --> 00:25:18.480 aware that these creatures possibly existed, and so on the rest of my trip, 278 00:25:18.640 --> 00:25:22.240 I just kind of I really put it. I put it in the 279 00:25:22.279 --> 00:25:29.319 back of my mind and ended up coming into, uh, within three feet 280 00:25:29.519 --> 00:25:34.119 of a huge black bear. And that had me more concerned than yeah, 281 00:25:34.160 --> 00:25:41.319 than than the first the first guy. Okay, so I got to ask, 282 00:25:41.400 --> 00:25:47.640 as you happen to look around your campsite for footprints the next morning where 283 00:25:47.640 --> 00:25:53.279 the thing walked through your camp. Definitely, I packed up and looked around, 284 00:25:55.079 --> 00:25:57.440 and I was on I was on a rock face. There was nothing, 285 00:25:57.799 --> 00:26:03.400 nothing, and they and the summer before when the alleged injured one came 286 00:26:03.440 --> 00:26:08.599 through. We looked for footprints in the It was one of those spots on 287 00:26:08.599 --> 00:26:14.519 the river where it's really rocky, but then there's those perfect fine sand, 288 00:26:14.720 --> 00:26:19.880 little sand beaches and we couldn't see anything, no tracks. Okay, you 289 00:26:19.880 --> 00:26:23.599 know what's interesting was that you guys got the census thing was asking you for 290 00:26:23.720 --> 00:26:29.559 help in the first Yes, absolutely, Sorry, what do you mean by 291 00:26:29.599 --> 00:26:32.160 that? Yeah, tell me about that because Bubbo knows a lot more about 292 00:26:32.200 --> 00:26:34.319 your encounter than I do, so I don't know anything, so laid on 293 00:26:34.400 --> 00:26:41.359 me. Okay, well it okay, I'll tell that story from the beginning. 294 00:26:41.319 --> 00:26:45.000 That one. I guess I've always had a harder time with that one 295 00:26:45.079 --> 00:26:48.880 because I didn't see it. I only heard it. But I'll tell you 296 00:26:48.920 --> 00:26:53.400 all about it. So my work partner and I were, you know, 297 00:26:53.440 --> 00:26:56.680 working for the FED, so we were out camping. It was a total 298 00:26:56.720 --> 00:27:03.079 internship and making no money. It was great, but we were We would 299 00:27:03.119 --> 00:27:10.079 find all these different places to camp and this one spot was like this old 300 00:27:10.839 --> 00:27:15.559 this like old road river access and we took the cars down there and we 301 00:27:15.559 --> 00:27:18.119 were like, hey, I think this would be a good spot to sleep. 302 00:27:18.880 --> 00:27:25.480 So we ate some food at our cars and then we, you know, 303 00:27:25.599 --> 00:27:30.200 gathered up our bags and just plopped them down on the river, and 304 00:27:30.240 --> 00:27:37.319 we each we each kind of grabbed one of those little sandy beach spots, 305 00:27:37.359 --> 00:27:41.640 like that was our own little campsite. And so he was easily twenty feet 306 00:27:41.680 --> 00:27:48.559 away from me, my buddy. And so we went to sleep, and 307 00:27:48.599 --> 00:27:52.200 I had I was again no tent, but I'm in my sleeping bag, 308 00:27:52.279 --> 00:27:56.079 and I had all my belongings around me, you know, my journal, 309 00:27:56.319 --> 00:28:03.640 my book, my headlamp, and I had a knife. So we go 310 00:28:03.720 --> 00:28:06.160 to sleep, and I was at that time, I was asleep too, 311 00:28:07.000 --> 00:28:15.359 and I wake up to the sound of this step drag, step drag through 312 00:28:15.839 --> 00:28:23.440 what was like oak tree litter or duff. And it went on for a 313 00:28:23.440 --> 00:28:26.240 while. It was down the way a bit, and it just kept getting 314 00:28:26.279 --> 00:28:32.960 closer up towards us, and all we could hear was step drag, step 315 00:28:33.160 --> 00:28:38.759 drag, and it stopped right above us, and it cried, and it 316 00:28:38.839 --> 00:28:44.640 was like, you know that one that one I want. I'll embarrass myself 317 00:28:44.680 --> 00:28:49.160 if I try to mimic it. But it was this this cry for help 318 00:28:51.039 --> 00:28:53.519 is what it seemed like. And we were flashing our lights up there. 319 00:28:53.559 --> 00:28:59.720 We couldn't see anything, and I eventually I put my light down and I 320 00:28:59.799 --> 00:29:03.680 was gripping my knife, but I sort of let down my guard because I'm 321 00:29:03.720 --> 00:29:07.279 like, and I even said over to Ben, I go, Ben, 322 00:29:07.680 --> 00:29:14.599 what is it? And by then I sort of let my guard down because 323 00:29:15.680 --> 00:29:22.480 it was almost like a emotional It wasn't threatening. And we just sat there 324 00:29:22.519 --> 00:29:27.599 for a little while it all stopped, and I'll be honest, I fell 325 00:29:27.640 --> 00:29:34.960 asleep. I fell asleep, and I woke up to the splash, the 326 00:29:36.000 --> 00:29:40.240 sound of the splash of the river. It's draining when you're when you're in 327 00:29:40.279 --> 00:29:45.319 a tense situation like that, like and your adrenaline is pumping for hours, 328 00:29:45.680 --> 00:29:51.920 it's so so like it's just drained your whole body, no kidding. So 329 00:29:52.039 --> 00:29:55.759 yeah, So I sometimes get embarrassed on that one that I'm like, yeah, 330 00:29:55.920 --> 00:30:00.240 I passed out. I just plumb passed out, because I it was 331 00:30:00.319 --> 00:30:03.039 just like what in the heck? And and we both did we both passed 332 00:30:03.079 --> 00:30:07.160 out cold, so it could have, you know, come right past us. 333 00:30:07.920 --> 00:30:12.519 And we looked for we looked for any kind of tracks in the dusk 334 00:30:12.759 --> 00:30:18.400 the next day where it was walking on the beach in the sand all around, 335 00:30:18.400 --> 00:30:22.480 and it didn't see anything. Well, we thought for a long time. 336 00:30:22.519 --> 00:30:26.119 They're probably pretty aware of their footprints, so that's not too surprising. 337 00:30:26.200 --> 00:30:30.160 I guess at the end of the day, I want to ask you a 338 00:30:30.200 --> 00:30:34.880 little bit about the what you actually visually observed, you know, so fast 339 00:30:34.920 --> 00:30:40.160 forward a year. I guess from that that the Olympia encounter, you said 340 00:30:40.160 --> 00:30:44.240 that it looked like a gorilla. Can you describe what you saw from the 341 00:30:44.279 --> 00:30:47.079 top of the head down to wherever you lost it, you know, to 342 00:30:47.200 --> 00:30:52.559 steep presumably, So from the top of the head it had a big, 343 00:30:52.359 --> 00:31:00.640 blackish brown, squatty head, a big face. I still did stake and 344 00:31:00.799 --> 00:31:06.400 look right into its eyes, big eyes, big bright eyes, kind of 345 00:31:06.440 --> 00:31:11.200 a flat face. And the way that it turned its neck, it's like 346 00:31:11.240 --> 00:31:18.880 it had no neck, and it just turned completely to the side, almost 347 00:31:18.960 --> 00:31:30.039 without moving its shoulders. And the shoulders were very broad and wide and huge 348 00:31:32.000 --> 00:31:37.039 and draping down with these large arms, kind of in a forward motion. 349 00:31:37.759 --> 00:31:42.960 So it had just climbed itself up and over this rock face, and at 350 00:31:44.000 --> 00:31:48.440 that point it sort of stopped and was about to propel itself to take off 351 00:31:48.480 --> 00:31:52.720 for the mountain, when I think it realized that it was not alone. 352 00:31:53.480 --> 00:31:57.640 Stay tuned for more Bigfoot and beyond with Cliff and Bogo. We'll be right 353 00:31:57.680 --> 00:32:10.119 back after these messages. So it sort of hunched forward, almost like startled. 354 00:32:12.400 --> 00:32:19.960 Shoulders come forward, just slightly turning, but the neck turns completely like 355 00:32:20.119 --> 00:32:25.319 ninety degrees over towards me, and then down the whole back. I can 356 00:32:25.400 --> 00:32:34.279 see its rump and just black blackish brown fur the whole way down into the 357 00:32:34.400 --> 00:32:38.559 legs, muscular legs. I can picture it right now. I mean I 358 00:32:38.599 --> 00:32:47.680 saw muscles. The thing was huge and ripped and broad and covered in her 359 00:32:49.559 --> 00:32:52.400 So it must have been a pretty good moon out. You said that earlier, 360 00:32:52.440 --> 00:32:58.480 but I believe it was like a few days prior to a full moon. 361 00:32:59.559 --> 00:33:02.000 Yeah, on a rock escarpment, of course, that reflects. And 362 00:33:02.279 --> 00:33:06.440 you know, I've done a lot of backpacking in the Sierras, for example, 363 00:33:07.039 --> 00:33:10.279 and camping on those granite faces. It almost is like daylight under the 364 00:33:10.480 --> 00:33:17.200 moon conditions. It's ridiculous. So yeah, and my eyes were just cranked 365 00:33:17.240 --> 00:33:22.559 in that direction. I didn't move my body at all, so you know, 366 00:33:22.680 --> 00:33:28.839 all I could see was what my eyes could see in a slightly turned 367 00:33:28.920 --> 00:33:34.480 and really periphery. But I saw it, and that's what I saw. 368 00:33:34.839 --> 00:33:38.279 You might have said this in your initial description, but refreshing my memory if 369 00:33:38.279 --> 00:33:43.119 you did, how far away were you from it from where it came up 370 00:33:43.160 --> 00:33:45.160 over the cliff and when it first noticed you? Yeah, so I was 371 00:33:45.160 --> 00:33:50.920 on one side of the creek anywhere between, you know, fifteen twenty feet 372 00:33:51.119 --> 00:33:54.279 maybe thirty at the most. And it was just on the other side of 373 00:33:54.519 --> 00:34:00.839 that little creek or brook by like five or ten feet. Oh so you're 374 00:34:00.839 --> 00:34:04.559 withorin like forty fifty feet up from this thing. Oh yeah, I think 375 00:34:04.599 --> 00:34:08.800 that I was within thirty feet. Oh my goodness. Yeah, that's horribly 376 00:34:08.880 --> 00:34:13.960 close. I'm a forester. I know what thirty feet is. Yeah, 377 00:34:14.239 --> 00:34:16.360 you know, most people don't, honestly, and and I don't want to 378 00:34:16.400 --> 00:34:22.320 slam people or anything, but people are just terrible at distances. I'm sure. 379 00:34:22.480 --> 00:34:27.199 Because you're a forester, you depend on your estimation of distances for a 380 00:34:27.239 --> 00:34:29.599 lot of what you do, you know, planting trees or whatever. I 381 00:34:29.639 --> 00:34:30.599 don't know. There's probably a million things you do that I have no idea 382 00:34:30.599 --> 00:34:35.400 about. But to have the layman say, oh, it was ten feet 383 00:34:35.440 --> 00:34:37.199 for me, then that's like, okay, well maybe that's fifty. Maybe 384 00:34:37.239 --> 00:34:40.559 that's thirty you know, don't really know, but you're confident in your ability 385 00:34:40.559 --> 00:34:45.079 to judge distances at this point, right, Yeah, And I've relived the 386 00:34:45.760 --> 00:34:52.639 experience in my mind enough and now knowing what thirty feet is, confidently that's 387 00:34:52.719 --> 00:34:55.400 that's always the number I come back to. And I'm looking at thirty feet 388 00:34:55.440 --> 00:34:59.079 away from you right now, and I'm like, yep, yeah, that 389 00:34:59.440 --> 00:35:02.679 was horrifically close, you know, thirty feet ten yards. That's ridiculous, 390 00:35:04.239 --> 00:35:09.960 and so honestly, I don't know that it so it was slightly hunched forward, 391 00:35:10.400 --> 00:35:15.800 not on all fours, but just enough to where those arms and shoulders 392 00:35:15.800 --> 00:35:21.400 were forward. I don't think it was much more than eight feet tall. 393 00:35:21.719 --> 00:35:28.360 Maybe standing completely upright, it could have been ten. But I you know, 394 00:35:29.400 --> 00:35:31.519 like when I went to the museum in Felton and they have that like 395 00:35:34.840 --> 00:35:39.960 the peak through and those things are like fifteen feet tall, Like, whoa, 396 00:35:40.119 --> 00:35:44.800 I didn't see anything that was fifteen feet tall. Just for your guys' 397 00:35:44.840 --> 00:35:49.159 records, what I saw, I really think was about eight to ten feet 398 00:35:49.199 --> 00:35:52.360 tall. Yeah. I imagine you spent some time with topo maps because you're 399 00:35:52.400 --> 00:35:54.960 doing this trip and you're doing you might want to go off trail and the 400 00:35:54.960 --> 00:36:00.719 whole thing. I'm curious why, of all places it walked exactly where you 401 00:36:00.840 --> 00:36:06.400 were. I mean, it's that's what are the chances of that unless it 402 00:36:06.599 --> 00:36:10.079 was a path of least resistance in some way to get to the top of 403 00:36:10.119 --> 00:36:14.039 that mountain? Perhaps, do you have any insight or thoughts on that? 404 00:36:14.920 --> 00:36:17.599 Yeah, I was off trail. I was. I was off in a 405 00:36:17.639 --> 00:36:24.519 place that you know, wouldn't have been right off of a trail on a 406 00:36:24.559 --> 00:36:30.360 TOBO map. And when I kind of was peeking around that that first lake 407 00:36:30.440 --> 00:36:34.039 that I thought I would get to and camp at, I sort of peeked 408 00:36:34.079 --> 00:36:38.679 around and just went you know, the extra not even quarter mile and sort 409 00:36:38.719 --> 00:36:45.480 of looked and was like, what in the world, it's this huge rock 410 00:36:45.920 --> 00:36:52.800 escarpment, Like I'm camping there? That's the spot. Did the creature drop 411 00:36:52.840 --> 00:36:55.880 by the lake on the way and like after it left you on the way 412 00:36:55.920 --> 00:36:59.840 to the top of the mountain? No, there was no, there was 413 00:37:00.760 --> 00:37:06.920 do not pass go. It went from me directly up and continued on its 414 00:37:07.280 --> 00:37:14.800 already determined route. It knew where it was going and did not stop and 415 00:37:14.880 --> 00:37:20.679 went directly from the little creek or brook that I was on and followed that 416 00:37:21.679 --> 00:37:28.639 up to the peak and the lake. That little lake would have been off 417 00:37:28.679 --> 00:37:35.039 to the west by a good quarter mile. That it's one of the things 418 00:37:35.039 --> 00:37:37.920 we've noticed over the years, like yeah, tracked a few Sasquatches in our 419 00:37:37.960 --> 00:37:43.039 time. Then one of the things that comes at is sometimes they're meandering about, 420 00:37:43.239 --> 00:37:45.360 you know, and the stride that the step lengths are usually shorter and 421 00:37:45.400 --> 00:37:49.800 all that kind of meandering, like they're just kind of poking around, maybe 422 00:37:49.800 --> 00:37:53.239 looking for something in particular. But there are other times in cases when they 423 00:37:53.239 --> 00:37:58.400 seem to be going somewhere, like they have a goal in mind and for 424 00:37:58.400 --> 00:38:01.199 whatever, for whatever reason. And you can tell that sometimes because the step 425 00:38:01.280 --> 00:38:05.840 length is longer, for example, but they seem to hone in on the 426 00:38:05.880 --> 00:38:09.199 direction they need to go, and they go that way and nothing gets in 427 00:38:09.239 --> 00:38:14.480 their way. If something's there, they might go around something that's insurmountable, 428 00:38:14.679 --> 00:38:17.039 some sort of obstacle, but generally speaking, they'll go over whatever it is 429 00:38:17.079 --> 00:38:21.840 and just goes straight there, you know, just just you know, as 430 00:38:21.880 --> 00:38:23.840 the crow flies, as they say, no matter what's in their way. 431 00:38:24.159 --> 00:38:29.320 So maybe this is one of those cases. Perhaps, right, I've thought 432 00:38:29.360 --> 00:38:34.920 about the path a lot, and I think that it was either a path 433 00:38:34.960 --> 00:38:42.280 that it had traveled before multiple times, or it was it was you know, 434 00:38:42.599 --> 00:38:46.239 just pre established it was. It was definitely a direct route. It 435 00:38:46.679 --> 00:38:51.480 knew where it was going. Do you have any speculations on why it might 436 00:38:51.519 --> 00:38:58.119 have been going there? I do. The week after my trip ended, 437 00:38:58.840 --> 00:39:05.679 I was meeting up with some friends to go climb at Mount Shasta and to 438 00:39:05.719 --> 00:39:08.000 go climb the peak, and I'll just tell you guys, I didn't make 439 00:39:08.039 --> 00:39:13.159 it. I did not sum it because I was so worn out from from 440 00:39:13.239 --> 00:39:17.760 the hiking trip and my friends actually left me at the at the start. 441 00:39:17.840 --> 00:39:21.199 We you know, I made it to base camp, but it's a big 442 00:39:21.400 --> 00:39:23.079 it's a big climb to go at Mount Shasta. Well, we will tell 443 00:39:23.119 --> 00:39:30.239 anybody it didn't make it. It's just broadcast that no one listens to this, 444 00:39:30.280 --> 00:39:35.559 that's all right. Yeah. So I was so worn out from from 445 00:39:35.599 --> 00:39:38.599 the trip that I stayed back at our base camp. But when we had 446 00:39:38.599 --> 00:39:46.320 gone down after that to the little campground for just like a after trip camp 447 00:39:46.320 --> 00:39:52.840 out before we go head headed back home, I met this this woman at 448 00:39:52.840 --> 00:39:59.280 the campground there and we I was with a group of girlfriends and so we 449 00:39:59.360 --> 00:40:02.440 had kind of befriended her and a bunch of people that she was camping with 450 00:40:04.159 --> 00:40:06.960 and they, you know, it was a campground, so they kind of 451 00:40:06.960 --> 00:40:13.920 had a party that night. And she was this really nice lady and she 452 00:40:14.280 --> 00:40:16.880 noticed that I was limping and she was like, what's wrong. Why are 453 00:40:16.880 --> 00:40:20.000 you limping? And I was like, oh, my knee hurts. I 454 00:40:20.079 --> 00:40:23.679 kind of blew it out. I just finished up a big hike and it's 455 00:40:23.719 --> 00:40:28.320 really sore. And she was like, oh, well, I do reiki 456 00:40:28.960 --> 00:40:30.840 reiky healing. Do you do you want me to do like a little reiki 457 00:40:30.920 --> 00:40:37.280 treatment on you? And I'm like sure, And so we sit down and 458 00:40:37.599 --> 00:40:39.760 I give her my knee and she's you know, rubbing my knee and doing 459 00:40:39.800 --> 00:40:45.000 whatever. And she was really interesting. She goes, so you just went 460 00:40:45.039 --> 00:40:50.000 on a big backpacking trip, a big hiking trip by yourself. I'm like 461 00:40:50.079 --> 00:40:54.480 yeah. She's like that's interesting, and she kind of was looking at me 462 00:40:54.559 --> 00:41:00.840 funny, and I was like, yeah, this it's really strange thing happened 463 00:41:00.880 --> 00:41:05.119 to me on the trip. And she was like, oh, tell me. 464 00:41:05.760 --> 00:41:07.719 I was like, well, it was pretty wild. I'm like, 465 00:41:08.280 --> 00:41:14.559 i'll tell you. But and so she just listened and she listened to my 466 00:41:14.679 --> 00:41:19.360 whole recollection of what had just happened. And I didn't even tell my girlfriends 467 00:41:19.440 --> 00:41:23.000 when we went up to Shasta, I didn't even tell them, So she 468 00:41:23.199 --> 00:41:28.719 was essentially the very first person who I told, and she listened to my 469 00:41:28.840 --> 00:41:36.199 story the whole way through, and she said, I'm a Kaduk Indian and 470 00:41:36.239 --> 00:41:44.280 my father's Koduk and has been going up every summer, late summer and every 471 00:41:44.760 --> 00:41:47.079 once in a while. I don't know what his pattern is, but my 472 00:41:47.159 --> 00:41:53.119 father goes up to the tops of the peaks and records sasquatches doing their mating 473 00:41:53.159 --> 00:42:00.199 calls. And I think that that's what you experienced was a sasquatch mating call. 474 00:42:00.079 --> 00:42:02.760 I'll bet it if you can figure out what that peak was. I'm 475 00:42:02.840 --> 00:42:07.840 sure that every year on that same peak. Yeah, I can figure it 476 00:42:07.880 --> 00:42:10.079 out. I've looked at it in the past. They just haven't come up 477 00:42:10.079 --> 00:42:15.239 with a map file, but I can do that. But it made a 478 00:42:15.280 --> 00:42:17.199 lot of sense to me when she said that, I was like, of 479 00:42:17.320 --> 00:42:22.280 course, well, yeah, there are there are very many reasons animals vocalized 480 00:42:22.320 --> 00:42:24.840 in general. I mean that because you know, they don't want to be 481 00:42:24.880 --> 00:42:29.360 they don't want to give their spot away, they give themselves away, and 482 00:42:29.480 --> 00:42:32.039 mating I suppose would be top on the list, I guess, you know, 483 00:42:32.440 --> 00:42:37.280 unless they're like highly social like birds or something like that. You always 484 00:42:37.559 --> 00:42:40.079 chirping back and forth to one another humans for that matter. And that's kind 485 00:42:40.079 --> 00:42:45.480 of something I bring up quite often, is when you hear a sasquatch vocalize, 486 00:42:45.239 --> 00:42:50.159 chances are it's not doing that for its own benefit. It's that most 487 00:42:50.239 --> 00:42:52.960 animals don't talk to themselves. In other words, humans are kind of special 488 00:42:52.960 --> 00:42:57.280 in that way, and there might be another one nearby, and that's something 489 00:42:57.320 --> 00:43:00.840 that you need to keep in mind. I think, Yeah, awesoppressed, 490 00:43:00.840 --> 00:43:05.000 you didn't hear one to answer at all, not at all. Yeah, 491 00:43:05.000 --> 00:43:07.320 because that's a lot. That's expending an awful lot of calories to get to 492 00:43:07.440 --> 00:43:12.880 at one certain location, you know, because that's climbing straight up to the 493 00:43:12.880 --> 00:43:16.159 top of a mountain. Basically, that's not easy under any circumstance. So 494 00:43:16.280 --> 00:43:21.039 to get up there and then hoot and holler until morning time, there must 495 00:43:21.079 --> 00:43:23.280 be a darn good reason to expend all those calories doing it, and certainly 496 00:43:23.320 --> 00:43:30.360 mating would be one of them, just because a rare species like this that's 497 00:43:30.519 --> 00:43:35.760 spread very thinly across the landscape has to have some sort of trouble finding other 498 00:43:36.079 --> 00:43:38.119 sasquatches. Now, now let me ask you this real fast. And I 499 00:43:38.159 --> 00:43:42.360 know that you probably didn't see it's junk or anything like that, but did 500 00:43:42.360 --> 00:43:46.440 you get the impression this was a male or a female? And really early 501 00:43:46.480 --> 00:43:50.760 on got the impression that it was a male. When it was down in 502 00:43:50.800 --> 00:43:54.119 the bottom of the canyon. It immediately was like, is a crazy man 503 00:43:54.760 --> 00:43:59.639 a drunk guy coming for me? Yeah? I thought that was interesting that 504 00:43:59.719 --> 00:44:02.400 you've suspected, even for a moment, that this might be a human. 505 00:44:02.800 --> 00:44:07.400 So there must have been something about the vocalization that reminded you of a human 506 00:44:07.599 --> 00:44:14.480 in some sort of way. Stay tuned for more Bigfoot and Beyond with Cliff 507 00:44:14.480 --> 00:44:22.559 and Bogo. We'll be right back after these messages. So, now you're 508 00:44:22.599 --> 00:44:27.159 a forester for a living. Have you heard other people who work for the 509 00:44:27.159 --> 00:44:30.960 Forestry Service or FEDS or anything like that talk about sasquatch encounters that they've had. 510 00:44:31.599 --> 00:44:39.400 I only have one friend who's in a slightly related position and career share 511 00:44:39.559 --> 00:44:44.000 another story. But I have to be totally honest with you. I really 512 00:44:44.000 --> 00:44:52.800 don't cross mingle the sasquatch sighting with my professional forestry career. I've you know, 513 00:44:52.840 --> 00:44:59.880 when I've shared the story and my recollection, I've been really ridiculed, 514 00:45:00.559 --> 00:45:06.360 and even by close friends. Luckily not any of my family. It's pretty 515 00:45:06.360 --> 00:45:14.360 cool. My family supports me and what I saw, but I've borderline lost 516 00:45:14.400 --> 00:45:20.079 friends over this story, and so I tend to keep it separate from my 517 00:45:20.519 --> 00:45:24.840 forestry career. I've shared it with a few people, but you know, 518 00:45:24.880 --> 00:45:29.199 there has to be a lot of trust there first, and more of a 519 00:45:29.239 --> 00:45:35.760 friendship. But I do have a friend who is in a related hydrology field, 520 00:45:36.440 --> 00:45:40.320 and he and his wife had actually come across one up in the Feather 521 00:45:40.400 --> 00:45:50.519 River Canyon apparently and allegedly was like a juvenile, And they pulled into this 522 00:45:50.639 --> 00:45:55.599 remote campsite up in the Feather River Canyon off the highway, and when they 523 00:45:55.639 --> 00:46:01.679 pulled in, their headlights were shining on this short, kind of squatty kid 524 00:46:01.880 --> 00:46:08.079 like sasquatch that peered out just from behind the tree, kind of walked out, 525 00:46:08.480 --> 00:46:14.000 stared at it right in the headlights, and then ran off. I 526 00:46:14.000 --> 00:46:16.079 could be incorrect about this, because I mean, obviously I live, and 527 00:46:16.199 --> 00:46:21.119 just like Bobo, we both live pretty bigfoot centric lives, you know, 528 00:46:22.000 --> 00:46:24.920 our lives are you know, we're basically drowning in the subject. So we 529 00:46:24.960 --> 00:46:29.559 probably have a skewed perception on some of this, but it seems to me, 530 00:46:29.639 --> 00:46:32.599 at least set the Forest Service and a lot of those sort of folks 531 00:46:32.639 --> 00:46:37.400 in general forest tree people are kind of opening up a little bit more to 532 00:46:37.480 --> 00:46:39.800 it. Like, for example, I live on timberland and therefore I get 533 00:46:39.840 --> 00:46:43.760 like a tax deferment because I have forests on my property, you know. 534 00:46:44.440 --> 00:46:46.719 And so I've been dealing a lot with the Malala District guys because they have 535 00:46:46.719 --> 00:46:51.239 to come out and inspect my property because the previous owners clear cut it and 536 00:46:51.239 --> 00:46:52.920 they want to make sure I replant it and all that sort of stuff to 537 00:46:53.079 --> 00:46:58.119 kind of keep my forest deferment for my property taxes. And I talked to 538 00:46:58.199 --> 00:47:00.920 them about bigfoot stuff. They haven't seen it, but they're pretty open to 539 00:47:00.960 --> 00:47:04.360 it, and they have they have some good questions and whatever. And as 540 00:47:04.559 --> 00:47:08.440 listeners of the podcast will know, this past fall, mountain Hood some well 541 00:47:08.440 --> 00:47:14.360 some not not an official capacity, but rangers from the mountain Hood National Forests 542 00:47:14.480 --> 00:47:19.599 reached out to me because they got sasquatch Sighting reported to them. So it 543 00:47:19.639 --> 00:47:25.679 seems that that that icy wall is somewhat breaking down to some degree at least. 544 00:47:27.559 --> 00:47:30.079 Maybe it's just because the old the older folks are retiring or dying off 545 00:47:30.360 --> 00:47:34.239 and the new generations coming in and they're a little bit more open to that 546 00:47:34.280 --> 00:47:36.880 sort of thing, or I don't know what it is, But can you 547 00:47:37.039 --> 00:47:39.000 comment at all about anything that I've just said, Like, do you think 548 00:47:39.039 --> 00:47:43.119 that's true at all? Or what do you what are your thoughts? I 549 00:47:43.159 --> 00:47:47.039 think I think that the icy wall you describe is is coming down, but 550 00:47:47.159 --> 00:47:55.079 it just doesn't do the the scientific community any justice that it's not you know, 551 00:47:55.119 --> 00:48:02.039 a classified specie species. It's not you know, keyed out as a 552 00:48:02.079 --> 00:48:08.079 living existing thing. And so that's where I mean, once it is adopted 553 00:48:08.199 --> 00:48:17.079 as a as a as a classified primate mammal, then that wall's gone. 554 00:48:17.960 --> 00:48:24.280 But without having that scientific you know, background of a scientific name, it's 555 00:48:24.320 --> 00:48:28.280 going nowhere. Yeah, yeah, what do you what do you think is 556 00:48:28.320 --> 00:48:30.119 going to happen? Because you know these are I mean obviously you know they're 557 00:48:30.119 --> 00:48:35.320 real, clearly you know, And it's only therefore, in my opinion, 558 00:48:35.320 --> 00:48:37.639 it's really only a matter at time until the type specimen is brought in. 559 00:48:38.400 --> 00:48:43.079 What do you think that will look like from your end, like how it 560 00:48:43.079 --> 00:48:45.800 will affect your job and and how how do you think it will go down? 561 00:48:45.920 --> 00:48:52.239 Basically, how it would affect my my career is you know, it 562 00:48:52.280 --> 00:48:58.480 would probably for one, open up a bunch of experiences and encounters that people 563 00:48:58.559 --> 00:49:01.519 have never reported and just go, yep, I saw one here, I 564 00:49:01.559 --> 00:49:05.559 saw one here, and those stories will be coming out of the woodwork. 565 00:49:06.119 --> 00:49:14.199 And secondly, I mean at that point would probably be identified as somewhat endangered, 566 00:49:14.960 --> 00:49:19.320 if not extinct species, and so there would be protection measures I would 567 00:49:19.360 --> 00:49:23.239 hope put into place, and so that would be That would be good, 568 00:49:24.559 --> 00:49:29.519 Yeah, because it would have to immediately I imagine, be declared endangered even 569 00:49:29.559 --> 00:49:31.440 if it's not, and I don't think they are necessarily, but I think 570 00:49:31.440 --> 00:49:37.639 it would be immediately declared as endangered until a thorough ecological study could be done, 571 00:49:38.119 --> 00:49:40.840 and you know the way these things are, that could take a decade 572 00:49:40.880 --> 00:49:45.760 man, right, That would it would be really beneficial I think for the 573 00:49:45.840 --> 00:49:52.199 protection and for the the knowledge that it is a not a hoax or be 574 00:49:52.760 --> 00:49:59.039 not some you know, mythical creature. Yeah, I would It would validate 575 00:49:59.079 --> 00:50:02.800 a whole lot of witness is that it would go. It would validate entire 576 00:50:02.920 --> 00:50:07.679 cultures, like the indigenous cultures of North America. They would get such a 577 00:50:07.800 --> 00:50:15.039 validation to their stories and unique oral traditions. But it also, you know, 578 00:50:15.079 --> 00:50:17.639 you said the whole lot of stories will come out. I would also 579 00:50:17.760 --> 00:50:23.119 predict that a whole lot of videos and photographs will come out that people have 580 00:50:23.239 --> 00:50:27.800 just been sitting on because they don't want to be thought a fool or the 581 00:50:27.840 --> 00:50:34.119 local drunk or something like that, and hopefully some immediate protection measures. So 582 00:50:34.519 --> 00:50:37.159 I'll sit on that panel for sure. Oh fantastic. Well, so, 583 00:50:37.199 --> 00:50:44.880 Sarah Bobo and I have both heard from more than one source that people are 584 00:50:45.000 --> 00:50:47.400 very high up in the government are aware of these things. But what do 585 00:50:47.440 --> 00:50:52.679 you have any thoughts on some sort of overarching conspiracy or some nonsense or I 586 00:50:52.039 --> 00:50:59.960 think most conspiracy conspiracies are nonsense personally. So are there any conspiracy conspiratorial thought 587 00:51:00.280 --> 00:51:07.039 in your mind about this, because obviously there would be a huge economic issue 588 00:51:07.760 --> 00:51:09.880 for closing off a lot of land and all this other stuff, because we 589 00:51:10.199 --> 00:51:15.599 all saw what the snailed art fish, the consequences of that, or the 590 00:51:15.639 --> 00:51:19.719 consequences of the spotted owl in the Pacific Northwest. I mean, I would 591 00:51:19.760 --> 00:51:22.920 say that the logging industry still hasn't really fully recovered from that whole ordeal. 592 00:51:23.760 --> 00:51:30.239 Do you think there's any sort of conspiracy amongst any level of government that's a 593 00:51:30.280 --> 00:51:34.320 concerted effort or do you think it's just individuals not really wanting to talk about 594 00:51:34.320 --> 00:51:38.519 it. Yeah, I would I wouldn't know enough to know about a concerted 595 00:51:38.639 --> 00:51:45.679 effort. But what comes to mind is I think it's more in my industry 596 00:51:45.760 --> 00:51:52.000 specifically. I think it's more almost of a jealous feeling that they haven't seen 597 00:51:52.039 --> 00:51:58.480 one and so they immediately knock it down. Now at the higher level, 598 00:51:58.639 --> 00:52:06.800 you know, with leadership, government decision makers, I'm honestly at a loss 599 00:52:07.000 --> 00:52:13.840 of why this isn't a you know, a documented species, and so so 600 00:52:13.920 --> 00:52:16.639 I've had, you know, thoughts of my own of is there is there 601 00:52:16.679 --> 00:52:23.320 some sort of conspiracy to to protect or to hide this creature from legitimacy. 602 00:52:24.079 --> 00:52:29.360 I mean, I've had that thought myself a lot, because I saw what 603 00:52:29.480 --> 00:52:36.559 I saw and it's still not a believed creature for the most part, and 604 00:52:36.599 --> 00:52:40.400 so it's it's actually kind of frustrating, not kind of it's very frustrating. 605 00:52:40.440 --> 00:52:45.800 From my end, it's there's some emotions that go along with it, like 606 00:52:45.880 --> 00:52:52.039 embarrassment and like I said, maybe jealousy from the others, you know, 607 00:52:52.079 --> 00:52:55.400 and especially with this species of all of them, because you know, we 608 00:52:55.440 --> 00:53:00.360 study the other apes, for example, to learn more about ourselves. That's 609 00:53:00.360 --> 00:53:02.599 our biological family, right, and you think that like, oh, here's 610 00:53:02.599 --> 00:53:08.519 an opportunity to learn so much more about where we came from. Like why 611 00:53:08.559 --> 00:53:13.280 wouldn't they just jump on this. It just doesn't make sense to me at 612 00:53:13.280 --> 00:53:16.760 all. But so I've always thought like, if there is some sort of 613 00:53:16.880 --> 00:53:21.119 effort, it's really a passive effort. I mean, people aren't going out 614 00:53:21.119 --> 00:53:23.840 and you know, squat and black people in like black SUVs, aren't picking 615 00:53:23.920 --> 00:53:27.480 up dead ones on the side of the road, in my opinion, or 616 00:53:27.480 --> 00:53:30.599 anything like that. Although I've heard more than my fair share of stories like 617 00:53:30.639 --> 00:53:34.800 that. I've heard of stories probably once every two weeks. In my Bigfoot 618 00:53:34.880 --> 00:53:37.800 museum up here by Portland, Oregon, somebody comes in asks me about these 619 00:53:37.840 --> 00:53:44.360 conspiratorial ideas of helicopters whisking dead bigfoots away from Mount Saint Helens after it blew 620 00:53:44.360 --> 00:53:47.119 in nineteen eighty. But if there is a conspiracy, it must be an 621 00:53:47.159 --> 00:53:52.800 awful passive one, something like, well, the bigfoots seem to be taken 622 00:53:52.840 --> 00:53:57.119 care of themselves pretty well, so let's not expend any resources towards this because 623 00:53:57.280 --> 00:54:00.519 they got out under control. Yeah. Yeah, that's a happy thought. 624 00:54:00.840 --> 00:54:02.760 I'm going to go with that one. And I think I think we're all 625 00:54:02.840 --> 00:54:07.840 leaning on you, Cliff and Bobo, to help us, you know, 626 00:54:07.960 --> 00:54:15.920 help the species become something that's validated, recognized, and approved by the scientific 627 00:54:15.960 --> 00:54:19.800 community. Well, shoot, this has been a good one, Cliff. 628 00:54:19.880 --> 00:54:22.199 What do you think that was our best witness testimony so far? I'd say 629 00:54:22.679 --> 00:54:28.960 that this is fantastic. Just the proximity, the encounter, the observations you 630 00:54:29.039 --> 00:54:32.199 made, and knowing that we're speaking to a legit, you know, forestry 631 00:54:32.239 --> 00:54:37.760 professional here, all of those things just tie into this beautiful situation that you 632 00:54:37.840 --> 00:54:40.519 brought us. Man, that is an amazing encounter. Thank you so much, 633 00:54:40.559 --> 00:54:44.280 Boba for setting us up, and thank you so much Sarah for joining 634 00:54:44.360 --> 00:54:47.920 us. Absolutely honored you guys. Thank you so much, And like I 635 00:54:47.960 --> 00:54:53.239 said, I really appreciate your guys work. I've been following you guys and 636 00:54:53.280 --> 00:54:59.559 watching the shows and now listening to this podcast, and and I really look 637 00:54:59.639 --> 00:55:04.039 up to you guys. This is this is truly an honor, and today's 638 00:55:05.480 --> 00:55:14.199 talk has been a dream come true. Nerd. I used to watch the 639 00:55:14.239 --> 00:55:16.880 show a bunch and I'm like, oh, come on, Cliff yelling at 640 00:55:16.920 --> 00:55:21.840 you from from my living room. Well, you know, people yelled at 641 00:55:21.880 --> 00:55:24.960 me on set too, So yeah, I was always having to keep that 642 00:55:25.000 --> 00:55:29.639 guy straight. Yeah. I think I had Bobo to point the way for 643 00:55:29.760 --> 00:55:35.800 me. Yeah. Good. Well, if you see anything else out in 644 00:55:35.800 --> 00:55:37.400 the woods or here's something, you let us know and come back on. 645 00:55:38.280 --> 00:55:43.400 Okay, I will do that. Quit my day job. Oh yeah, 646 00:55:43.760 --> 00:55:45.880 quit your day jobs. Do bigfoot stuff full time. And there's no money 647 00:55:45.880 --> 00:55:50.119 in it, but holy smokes, it's a lot of fun. That was 648 00:55:50.199 --> 00:55:53.440 great. All right, Thank you so much, sir, Thank you guys. 649 00:55:54.079 --> 00:55:58.920 Bye. So Bobo man, that that was a great witness. I 650 00:55:59.119 --> 00:56:01.599 can't believe you pulled one out like that. That was amazing. Yeah, 651 00:56:01.719 --> 00:56:05.760 and you recognize that story. I'm sure read off the bat. I have 652 00:56:05.880 --> 00:56:07.440 read it. I have read it, but you know, things get jumbled 653 00:56:07.440 --> 00:56:10.960 in my mind, you know, like all these all these basically all the 654 00:56:12.000 --> 00:56:15.239 reports from the last twenty five twenty six years of doing this just get all 655 00:56:15.320 --> 00:56:17.320 jumbled up, so it's nice to have a refresher course, especially when it's 656 00:56:17.440 --> 00:56:22.400 straight from the witness's mouth. Yeah. She was excellent relaying details, and 657 00:56:23.400 --> 00:56:27.840 her memory was great. Her observational skills were great. I mean, and 658 00:56:27.880 --> 00:56:30.880 she's cautious. She even said, like I at one point she said, 659 00:56:30.880 --> 00:56:32.920 I'm not so sure that, so I'm not gonna say it, you know, 660 00:56:34.000 --> 00:56:35.960 like I think it was the peak of the mountain if I remember right. 661 00:56:36.840 --> 00:56:39.320 She's cautious about what she's saying to make sure that everything she's saying is 662 00:56:39.440 --> 00:56:44.440 accurate. And I so appreciate that from a witness instead of just making something 663 00:56:44.519 --> 00:56:46.719 up or answering even though they may not be one hundred percent for sure, 664 00:56:49.440 --> 00:56:52.519 right right, Yeah, those are the witnesses everyone dreams about talking to you. 665 00:56:53.199 --> 00:56:55.800 Yeah. Yeah, fantastic man, So thank you, Bob. So 666 00:56:55.880 --> 00:57:00.239 that was amazing. Yeah, we got some great guests coming up, so 667 00:57:00.800 --> 00:57:02.039 if you listen to this one, folks, we got more coming for you. 668 00:57:02.760 --> 00:57:12.280 And until next time, keep it Squatchy. Thanks for listening to this 669 00:57:12.360 --> 00:57:15.199 week's episode of Bigfoot and Beyond. If you liked what you heard, please 670 00:57:15.320 --> 00:57:20.679 rate and review us on iTunes. Subscribe to Bigfoot and Beyond wherever you get 671 00:57:20.719 --> 00:57:25.039 your podcasts, and follow us on Facebook and Instagram at Bigfoot and Beyond podcast. 672 00:57:25.559 --> 00:57:30.599 You can find us on Twitter at Bigfoot and Beyond that's an N in 673 00:57:30.639 --> 00:57:35.960 the middle, and tweet us your thoughts and questions with the hashtag Bigfoot and Beyond