This week, we continue with our theme of remote viewing, or in other
words, psychic archaeology with doctor Stephen Schwartz, a parapsychology who has actually used
psychics in an academic setting to find important ancient sites. This is a look
at a protocol that includes university scientists, scanning technology, and psychics in the
search for lost ruins, tombs, and individuals. All this and gendeo today
on Earth Ancients for Saturday, August twenty six, twenty twenty three. This
is is Earth Ancients. I'm your host, Cliff Dunning. I've got an
interesting program today and the theme is psychic archaeology. And I was and obviously
the interviews done and you're listening to the recorded version of it. But I
was taken aback by the amount of accuracy but also the number of places that
have been viewed through what can only be considered remote viewing. And I had
to get Jen Deo on and Jen's with me here to ask her what her
feelings were. And I wouldn't ask this of most archaeologists simply because a lot
of them are, you know, feeling like, hey, I did my
time, I did my four years, I did my six years, I
have my PhD. I know what's going on, but that's not true necessarily.
And I look at this remote viewing otherwise known as psychic archeology, as
another tool to help find individuals, ruined cities, so forth, and so
on that have been a question down through the ages and so so, Jen,
what do you think of psychic archeology. I mean, this wasn't a
course that would be offered to your college. Yeah, probably not. You
know, I'm gonna own that I didn't know a ton about this before we
talked, excluding you know, some of maybe like the little offshoots of it,
like say dowsing, which is like seeking electromagnetic fields, which is really
really common, and people do it to find, you know, water,
So it would make sense that you know, you would be able to find
it if you know there was something else going on there. Then there's channeling
Edgar Casey and the Akashic Records, which we all kind of know about that
or have heard about that his work with channeling Atlantis. And then there's the
remote viewing, and that's kind of what your guests talked about today. And
then there's psychometry, which kind of blew my mind. You know, when
someone holds an object and they can tell you about the object somebody who's sensitive
and they can kind of give a date, time and maybe a period or
something. Yep, yeah, exactly, So good about that. Yeah,
And so I think that it has a number of components that are kind of
really interesting, you know, in and of themselves, but then when you
put them all under the umbrella of psychic archeology, it's definitely something that's been
discounted and kind of left the wayside and considered fringe, even though it's had
some really successful results. I e. Your guests who did the Alexandria Project.
Yeah, I want to mention to our listeners that you had a chance
to see a presentation that I suggested that you look at called the Alexandria Project,
which was gone in the late nineteen seventies. It's been so long.
Everybody looks so young in that in that serious but yeah, talk about that.
What your feelings were. So, the Alexandria Project was written by Stephen
Schwartz, who is a parapsychologist. That's interesting in and of itself that he's
a parapsychologist. Yeah. He took eleven psychics and gave them a map of
Alexandria, and the outcome was what he wanted to see if they was any
commonality and what they chose and kind of some of the things that he had
in his mind that he was interested in finding were the tomb of Alexander the
Great, the Library of Alexandria, and the palace of Cleopatra and Mark Antony
kind of their their last ground where they were. So what he does is
so he has those eleven psychics go in and look at the map and see
if they find some similar things. And then he identifies two psychics female and
a male, and basically he uses them to get their impressions. And what
he ends up finding is they think that they identify a location where Alexander's tomb
may well have been. And what they end up finding is, you know,
there's this mosque and underneath the mosque is something that had been named after
Alexander prior to that moss being built. So there was definitely there was some
sort of something going on there. They didn't really they weren't really able to
put a finger on it other that there was a connection there, which I
think is, you know, that's interesting that these two people came up with
it up with something very similar. They came up with something where they both
saw very similar images and what they identified was corroborated by an actual archaeologist.
So they tried to meet somewhere in between where they were using this psychic archaeology
but also incorporating an archaeologists to corroborate their fines. So the big thing that
they found, which I did think was really interesting, they went out into
the Egyptian desert and both of these psychics identified some very very similar imaging and
they ended up finding a Byzantine city it wasn't Roman, and they identified shapes
where exactly it would be, and again they brought in an archaeologist and the
archaeologists started digging, and they ended up digging there for I think like two
months and uncovered an entire city in this small Egyptian town. Yeah. I
mean, I was a kid in the late seventies and so I have no
idea what the technology was. But obviously light ar wasn't around. Some of
the early ground penetrating radar was around, and I don't know what other technologies,
but I was surprised, and we'll hear it today in our interview that
this information, and this technique, the protocol that Schwartz developed where you use
established archaeologist and you use these psychics to pinpoint, hasn't come forward, hasn't
been brought and used in any other place. And I was just curious what
your feelings were. Why not? I mean, because these people were able
to actually show the building in the desert. I can't think of the name
of it. I think it was Maria or something, yeah, yeah,
And they actually found the walls, the rooms. I think the woman psychic
Hella, found an oven of some kind. And it's like, this is
extremely accurate, but we don't hear about it anymore. Well, I mean
you could say the same thing about you know, police detectives who bring in
psychics to work with the police to find missing children or you know, murder
victims. I think that it probably just kind of went the wayside because you
know, they couldn't I guess they couldn't legitimize it essentially, you know,
because you can't measure it. It's not quantifiable, it's not qualifiable. So
I think, even though we even know today that human beings do have psychic
elements to our existence and how we work within our consciousness, I mean that
has been proven. That's why I think that, like, for instance,
you know dousing falling under the psychic archaeology, Well, we know that energy
exists in various different capacities. So to be able to use copper rods to
identify electromagnetic fields doesn't feel out of the realm of reality to me. That
feels actually like, yeah, that feels like that's something real. I feel
like I could take a physicist out with me and they could explain why it
did that or something to that effect. But I think archaeologists are less likely
to bring in a psychic because it would somehow demean them or make it seem
like, you know, they weren't paying attention to the geology or you know,
the lay forms and the topography to identify their sites. You made a
very good point when you started defining what archaeologists use today. Psychic archaeology doesn't
use the scientific method, and there's no way to quantify or tests. It's
like if you find a man or a woman who's highly sensitive, highly psychic,
and and we'll learn more about it today, it's just too much woo
woo. I think for the established university archaeological community to consider and even though
it could be dead on or even in the high nineties, it's just too
much. I guess, yeah, well, I mean it also, let's
agree about this too, how do you find a psychic to do this work?
Like, it's not like you can ask for, you know, a
CV or a resume. And how many you know sites have you found remotely
up into you know what point in time? So I think that that might
have a little bit to do with it, because you know, psychics don't
have a lot of credibility. They're seen as Charlatans and people who you know
want to take your money. And still, you know, that's a good
point. It isn't necessarily that credible, and you don't go to a university
to become a psychic. It's something you're born with. Although and in this
interview today we do learn that there is a select type of psychic that he
Stephen Schwartz uses in finding Alexander's tomb and Cleopatrick's rooms and so forth, and
so we'll learn about it. I guess I would think whatever tools you can
get that help you find a location and narrow down the dig site is not
only money and time saving, you know, it's just gets to the point
much quicker, and you know, to not have it as a learning tool.
Now, maybe what you're saying is true. Maybe it was vogue in
the late seventies to work with these people. Because he doesn't excuse me.
In our interview last week with Russ Targ one of the founders of the SRI
Remote Viewing Group, they did work with the Patricia Hurst kid nap and they
actually found where she was located. So that was unique psychic that that did
that. So there's a lot of elements in this whole question, and because
yeah, the psychics don't necessarily see the same things either. Even in this
video that Alexandria project, how the impressions that the woman experienced versus what the
man experienced were so mean, they weren't, you know, so far apart.
But something that I found interesting the woman Hella, she was saying,
you know, she felt when she was identifying areas or regions, she felt
like they were heavy, the heavy areas. Whereas the other psychic, the
gentleman, he would he was very descriptive and had shapes and you know,
like at one point he describes half a floor and then when they find the
floor. They say, you know, there was debris on it, it
had deteriorated, but you could still see part of the mosaic that existed,
so it really was a floor on top of a floor. So yeah,
I mean, it's just such this wide swath of information and how you interpret
it is such a you know, it's almost like you could take a crash
course on how you interpret psychic information and what you you know, what it
could mean to whomever the archaeologist is excavate, because that was the other takeaway.
The archaeologists that they were working with was like, oh, hell no,
there's nothing here, and then all of a sudden, you know,
they find these walls and rooms and mosaic tile floors, which he was like,
there's nothing here, and then all of a sudden, there's really something
there. Yeah, I know. And this comes up on our interview today
with him with Stephen Schwartz, is the fact that the archaeologists who were on
the team who are looking for these various objects were like poop pooling the whole
thing going. You don't know what you're talking about because in some cases they'd
actually been looking for specific sights and didn't find them. I just think when
we have, as an example, we have these sixty thousand Mayan ruins in
the Guatemala jungle. We've had doctor Richard Hanson on, We've had Ed Barnhart,
and we've had others talk about them, people who are Mayanists. Wouldn't
it be interesting? Because you know, the funny thing is Jen is that
Hansen he's actually admitted that they're looking for the tomb of a king. Yeah,
they're looking for I mean, I'm going dude, this thing is huge.
And I'm not going to get into how I feel about his definition of
pyramids, because he believes that they are big, big monuments to the gods.
But if he had other tools, like a psychic archaeologist or psyche working
with him, psychic archaeologists, I'm putting it into a division. You've created
a whole new job. Oh my god, if you're listening, let's do
it. No. I think it would help him if he was able to
bring somebody in to target a location that Hansen goold dig to find something,
because he's not going to be around much longer. He's in his you know,
seventies now, and El Minador is a monstrosity. I mean, he's
done some great work. But wouldn't you think that if he was able to
use somebody to pinpoint a site that supports lighter, that that would be the
next step. Can't hurt, right, it can't hurt I look at it.
I mean, I'm always of the philosophy do no harm, but I
don't see the harm that it would do. You know, bring in a
local brujar or something like that and see what they have to say. I
mean, why not. I'm a proponent of magic and you know, whatever
abilities that other people have, and you know it's it's it's not it's not
something that you know, demeans the group or the you know, the project
that they're working on. Really it's a collection of information, and the more
information you collect, the better off you are. Yeah, I mean,
you've been out on excavation size and you've excavated all over the place. Wouldn't
it be nice to know specific a specific area that got a hit by a
local sensitive. Wouldn't that help other than just going through a whole mountain side
and trying to find pot sharts. I'll be honest with you. They might
not call them, you know, psychics, but archaeologists do bring in you
know folks who are local. They do bring in people who, you know,
the local shaman, the healer, whomever it might be. I've worked
on a couple of excavations where that's the case. So in the United States,
I mean, I worked on an excavation in Nevada where we had some
tribal elders come in and one of them did a blessing and then walked over
to a cave and said, you need to dig in here, and so
we did, and guess what we found? Some we found a beautiful site
with cordage and matting. Really. Yeah, So I do think that we
use it. How we label it might be very different than how you perceive
it. But for the language, yeah, language has to change. Here's
one for you. And be honest. Now, if you were required to
take will not require, but if you were had an elective course on developing
psychic awareness of archaeological sites, would you be interested in something like that?
I mean I would personally, I should. I should ask you because you're
like you're you're transparent, very open minded person. That's why you're my friend.
I mean, I don't. I think I think all education matter in
that way, and so I think that this is part of the history of
archaeology, and I think that an archaeologist could determine if they wanted to go
in a direction. You know, it's not unheard of. You know,
I'm going to go back to dousing because that really resonates with me. I'm
very interested in that. I think that that is a perfectly reasonable thing to
use, whether you're trying to identify water on your site that you want to
avoid, or if you want to, you know, identify the electro magnetic
current of wherever it is that you're working. So yeah, you know,
I don't It's so funny because people make things so black and white and when
it comes to these things, just like I said to you on the front
end of this, I don't really know about this cliff, but it is
fascinating because there are little fingers and tendrils that work into the status quo and
how we do things and whether or not we want to call it by you
know, these psychic archaeology, or say that we brought in an elder and
they told us this, and then we did what they said and they were
right. It's kind of the same thing. It's just called something different.
Thank you for that story about bringing in the local elders and perhaps shaman,
because in many ways native or indigenous people are tuned in to the local awareness
and the land and so forth, and so in many ways that kind of
like psychic archeology. So fantastic, Jen Dale as always a pleasure having you
with us, and we'll see you again. It's always fun to have gen
on the program. She gives us a orthodox view of archaeology, but of
course she has tinted glasses and sees things a little differently than the books,
which the academic books would lead us to believe. No, it's fun to
have that perspective because I don't know why they're not using these people more regularly,
especially when there is an area or an individual, tomb or an artifact
that is of great interest like a codis, like a Mayan book that they
can target and then bring some of these sensitives in to find the location,
the gray site, the tomb where this item lies. So I just don't
know why we're not using more of this type of technology, human technology.
So all right, So today's program is psychic Archeology, and my guest is
doctor Stephen Schwartz. And by the way, This is an extended interview going
for about ninety minutes, so enjoy. H We're continuing our theme of remote
viewing with a new guest today. Last week we had rust Tar speaking on
him his work, his involvement in remote viewing with the CIA and with SRI
and detailing some interesting projects. But this week we really get to the core
of it, and I'm really really happy and feeling fantastic that we have a
new guest. His name is Stefan Schwartz. This is what Earth Ancients is
all about, using psychic archeology, using the latest technology, penpointing information,
and actually going after it. My guest today I mentioned Stefan Schwartz. He
is a scientist, a futurist, award winning author of both fiction and nonfiction,
Distinguished Associated Scholar of the California Institute of Human Science. He has written
and continues to write a great deal. His books include Opening to the Infinite
Awakening, The Eight Laws of Change, The Sacred Valid Excuse Me, The
Sacred Vaults of Time, which I urge everyone to get. It's actually three
books in one. And then he wrote another book that we'll talk about today
called The Alexandria Project. This is what we're all about. And I'm really
really quite pleased and happy to have Stephen on the program. Welcome to Earth,
Ancient Stephen. Great to see you, a pleasure to be here.
Cliff, all right, I mentioned a few people that you know well.
One is Russ targ and the work he did at SRI. How did you
get I mean, you're you're a parapsychologist. Remote viewing somewhat makes sense,
but how did you get involved on a personal level? What would inspire you
to dedicate so much of your life to this fascinating topic. Well, I
woke up when I was up twenty three years old. I was I was
in New York. I was working. I had and i've been working for
National Geographic. I got drafted. This is during the Vietnam Era. I
went into the Army, I came out. I wrote a movie for Colonial
Williamsburg in Virginia, and I sent a copy of the script up to a
guy I had met in the Army who was in New York and he was
working for screen Gems and they asked me to come up to New York and
offered me a job. And I've started writing an adaptation of a Bud Schulberg
play anyway, And so I was in New York. I was twenty three,
I was being successful and all that sort of thing, and I met
all kinds of people, and I went to a party that Truman Capote gave
and I went down the hall to go to the bathroom. And when I
came back, I looked there was this gold antique mirror on the wall.
And I looked at this mirror and I just said, spontaneously, without really
even thinking about it, I said, you are becoming an unattractive person.
Your values are all screwed up. And I sort of, oh, what,
you know, why did I say that? Anyway, I looked down
the hall and there were all these famous people that were in the room,
and and I left the party. I went back to Manhattan, got in
my car, drove back down to my family's property in Virginia in Gloucester,
and I was depressed. It's the only time in my life I have really
been depressed, because I knew something was wrong, but I couldn't figure out
what it was. And one day I was sitting on the porch looking out
over the bay, and I mean, this was a property land grant to
my mother's family and built in the sixteen fifty three, so it had been
around a long time. I had beautiful grounds, and I looked over and
on part of the garden there was this couple walking, middle aged couple,
and and I didn't know who they were. And they were dressed like people
in Manhattan, not in Virginia, you know. He had on a gray
suit and she had on this very smart dress, and and I thought,
who are these people? I looked over where the cars would park. We
were at the end of a ten mile unpaved school brush road and our lane
was a mile long. So I thought, there's no car. I mean,
I looked down at the dock, the boat house, and there was
no boat. I thought, you know, who are these people? How
did they get here? And they saw me looking at them, and they
came over and I opened the screen door and they came in, and this
woman looked at me and instead of introducing herself, she said to me,
do you believe in reincarnation? Oh my god? And I said, I
said, I don't know anything about it, but yeah, I guess if
I think about it, I probably do. It seems very symmetrical. And
then I said, but We'll wait. You know, who are you?
Why are you here? And they introduced themselves as Edin Paula Fitzgerald. And
I looked at this guy. I mean, I just thought they were nuts.
But I looked at this guy and he seemed vaguely familiar. And I
said to him, are you the Ed Fitzgerald who was the production designer for
Magnificent Seven, which was a very popular movie at the time. And he
said yes, And I realized I had met him just to shake hands at
a film conference in New York, so they just see that made him seem
a little less crazy. And I said to her again, you know,
why are you here? She said, well, I had a dream that
told me that I was supposed to drive up here with with my husband and
to invite you down to the Edgar Cacy material to show you the edgre Cacy
material. Do you know who Edgar Casey is? Oh? Wow, okay?
And I said no, I don't have any ideas. She said,
well, do you know what a psyche is? And I said, well,
you know, I mean I yeah, it was sort of And I
how you know, why were you doing this? How did you know to
get here? I mean, you know, We're at the end of a
ten mile school bus road that's not paved, in a mile long lane that
goes to our fields. And how we did you possibly ever even get here?
She said, well, in the dream I saw where to turn,
and when I woke up, I just wrote it down. I thought,
okay, it's pretty strange. She said, would you like to meet Thomas
Jefferson? And I said I'd gone to the University of Virginia, where I
had been an ECHL scholar. And I said, well, yeah, is
he backed? And she said yes he is. I said, well,
how do you know that? And she said, well, Edgar Casey said
it. And I said how does Edgar Casey know it? And she said,
well, you need to come down and look at this material. And
just then a car came down the lane and this young couple was driving it,
and she said, give me your telephone number, and I handed her
my card and they said thank you very much and got left and got in
the car and drove away. And I thought, what the hell just happened?
Exactly That's what I'd be thinking, Yeah, I said, so.
About a week later, I got a telephone call from a guy who said,
this is t J. Davis Thomas Jefferson Davis, and I'd like to
invite you down to Virginia Beach for the weekend. And as I told you,
I was at this point as depressed as I have ever been in my
life. And I said okay, because I just didn't know what to do,
I said, okay, give me an address. I'll come down.
So at the appointed to day and everything, I drove down to Virginia Beach,
about two hours south of where my family's property was. And I got
to this address and there was a young man up on a ladder putting up
a sign for a leather shop and and a sort of hippie store. And
I said, I'm looking for T. J. Davis and he said he's
not here, but Joan is. And around the corner came this quite lovely
woman, had beautiful lavender eyes, and she said, I'm supposed to take
you up to the AAR. I said, what's the AAR and she said,
well, that's where they studied the edgre Cacy material. And so we
got in my car and drove up to up Atlantic Avenue and we got to
where she told me to go, and she took me into this building and
We're going to go in the library, she said. And we went into
this library and along one of the walls where these green loose leaf notebooks,
and she said, these are the readings. And she told me her idea
of what a reading was. And I walked down the wall and just at
random, I pulled one of these green loose leaf notebooks, you know,
the kind of ovens school, the three ring binders. I pulled one of
these notebooks down and I opened it up, just at random, and I
started to read this what was on the page. And I'm telling you,
Cliff, it is possible that your hair can stand on end, because I
had, at random pulled down a reading given in nineteen thirty six for a
woman and it was and in the reading he said you were a member of
the Essecene community at he described the area which I recognized as Kurbet Cumron,
and you were a teacher of astrology. And in nineteen thirty six, there
was not a single human being on earth who knew that. In fact,
nobody knew that Kurbet Cumran was in a scene community. They thought it was
outpost to the Emperor of Aspasian's troops. What part of the world is that
located. It's in the Middle East. That's why I thought, okay.
And anyway, eleven years after he gave that reading, a young Bedouin tribes
boy was chucking rocks into a cave just as he was taking his sheep along,
and he heard something go clunk, and he went down and he found
these urns which contained the Dead Sea scrolls. And then archaeologists came in and
they did excavations, and they found that there were female skeletons, and not
a single person knew at that time that there were women who were part of
the Essene community. Josephus says it was a schismatic order of Jewish monks,
so nobody knew that there were women involved. Nobody knew that they there was
Jewish a scene community at courbet Comeran, and no one knew that they were
interested in astrology. He said, this woman had been a teacher of astrology.
But all of that was true. And I knew all this because the
last thing I had done for the National Geographic before I had been drafted,
was research on the Dead Sea scrolls for to do an article in the National
Geographic magazine. And I knew that in nineteen thirty six. When he gave
this reading, none of the things that he was saying were known to be
were known period. And I said to this young woman, let me take
you to dinner. I have a bunch of questions. And so we went
off to dinner, and and I've talked to her and mean to her understanding
of what was going on with Casey. And and I thought, wait,
whoa, whoa. Though this is a whole other world, what's going on
here? And so I called back to the farm and said it's gonna take
a little longer than a weekend. And it ended up taking five years.
And I went up to the AAR the next day and I met Hughlyn Casey,
and I met Gladys Davis Turner, who was Casey's lifelong secretary and archivist.
And I said to her, I don't understand this, and I want
to understand it. I'm going to I would like to read the readings,
and I would like to start at the first one and read all the way
through sequentially. Now, and I want to stop right there, because there
are something like fourteen thousand of his readings. Yeah, you are about the
only person. And I'm sure there's others, but there are very few of
you who have read one through fourteen thousand. Now there's nobody else, only
Gladys. According to Gladys, she and I are the only two people to
read all the readings, and they granted you permission to go through those obviously.
Yeah, okay, I mean that's all I started reading. I started,
you know, as I said, I said, it take a little
longer than a weekend. So I moved on to Virginia Beach and I started
reading. And after I'd been at it for two or three years, I
had read by that time unknown thousands of them. I thought, well,
I better start reading what does science think about this? And so I decided
I would start reading all the parapsychological literature. So I started with the very
first journal in parapsychology. I was going to William and Mary College and Commonwealth
University and Wesleyan University, and in their libraries were all these things about these
these journals, these parapsychology journals. And then I started reading books. So
I read all the journals, and then I started reading books Blavotsky, Uspenski,
Gerjief, all the sort of metaphysical people from the late nineteenth early twentieth
century. That's what I did. And then in nineteen sixty eight, I
had enough money saved up from working as a screenwriter in New York. I
didn't have to take a job, so I was just living on that and
doing this research. And then sixty eight I decided that I wanted to be
an experimentalist to test these ideas, and and Casey kept saying other people could
do this, So I created what I called distant viewing, which we later
renamed remote viewing. That's an Ingo Swan word that he gave it. It's
terrible term in both cases because it has nothing to do with remote, has
nothing to do with viewing, has nothing to do with distance anyway. So
I built a grid in my back yard, the back garden of this house
that I had, and I started out with twelve foot square grid. I
went down to a ship Chaanzor and got a lot of yellow line and I
staked out and I made this grid of twelve squares, and eventually it made
it one hundred and forty four squares because I had a friend who was a
statistician, and he said, it'll be much more impressive if it's one hundred
and forty four squares. Actually it didn't really make any difference. And I
would bury things in mason jars or in thirty five millimeter film canisters because I
wanted to see how refined people's perception could get. So a little bit thirty
five millimeter film canister or a mason jar, and I would bury things in
them in a grid, and I made a mimiograph. That's how long ago
this is. I made a mimiograph of the grid, and I would send
it out to people all over the world that I knew, and I would
ask them if they could locate which of the grid I had buried something,
and if they the first to locate it and make a mark on the grid
the piece of paper I sent them, and then to tell me what it
was. And to give you an example, there are many of these.
I got. My wife had a perfume bottle that had one of those little
rubber squeezy balls that atomized the perfume, and I buried that in a mason
jar and in the grid. And the person said, well, there's a
very strong smell of flowers, and there's a bottle and there's something around and
it's you can squeeze it and that was exactly correct. I mean, that's
just a example. Anyway, I did dozens of these things, and it
turned out people could do it, and not always, not every time,
but statistically significantly. And how many people would you say were involved in this
early test that you were developed. Oh, I don't know, maybe fifty
okay, okay, number of people? Yeah, And then I and then
I got interested. I got interested in why religion is so focused on water
and wine, and I began doing a series of experiments where I had would
have meditators focus on bottles of wine, and then I would compare that wine
to exactly the same wine I would I would buy a bottle of wine and
split it into a seven hundred and fifty MILLI leader, and I would split
it into three seventy five MILLI leader bottles, and I would randomly assign one
of them to be control, one of them to be treated, and I'd
take the treated bottle, I'd put it on a chair in the middle of
a study group that was meditating, and I would ask them to focus their
meditation on this bottle, and then I would take the two bottles, the
control and the treated to a friend of mine, and I would tell them
I'm about to make a big wine buy, and I'm down to two kinds
of wine, and it's a lot of money. And so could you have
people, could you have a little wine tasting. Invite seven people to come
in and taste these two wines and tell me which one they think is the
better wine. And I did it twelve times, and in eleven times they
picked the bottle that was treated. And I later did another experiment on how
focused intension changes the materials the molecular structure of water anyway. But so from
sixty four sixty five, sixty five, I guess to sixty nine sixty almost
seventy, all I did was study the Edgre Casey readings and start to do
these experiments, and study also the parapsychological literature. And by the time I
got into this, I realized most people start doing these kinds of experiments because
they want to prove doesn't exist. Okay, But by the time I got
there, having looked at the Casey material, which has got just it's the
largest body of remote viewing data that exists. And I mean he did all
kinds of things that just you you couldn't do if if consciousness was only physiologically
based, so I didn't have any doubt that it was real. What I
wanted to know, and what I've always wanted to know, is how does
it work? What can you do to make it work better? What can
you do with practical utility with it? What is it telling us about who
we are as human beings? And what is it telling us about our place
and the matrix of life? Yeah, I'd like to know. I'd like
to get your definition a step in what remote viewing is, and also if
you could give us a little flavor of psychic archaeology and touch on maybe one
of the noted cases that Edgar Casey presents. But up to you go ahead.
Well, I mean, first of all, as I said, remote
viewing is a very bad term. What we're really dealing with here is non
local awareness and the fact that there is an aspect of consciousness that exists before
you were born, and we'll continue after you are physically dead, and that
what's going on is that what I would call the eternal self, what religion
would call the soul, episodically manifests a personality and incarnates it. You choose
your parents, you choose your socio economic background, you choose your race,
you choose your abilities, and this all comes in and what comes across is
information. And if you look at the reincarnational research of Ian Stevenson or Jim
Tucker at the University of Virginia, or Erlander Harrelson, there's an enormous amount
of data that has been accumulated, very vigorously researched by those three people,
particularly Ian and Jim Tucker. It makes it very clear that there is a
continuity of consciousness and that what comes across between incarnations is information which literally affects
you at the genetic level people. For instance, I'll just give you one
example. Years later, I was making a television program about reincarnation and we
studied a case in which a young boy said that he previously had been a
money lender. This is an India, that he'd been a money lender,
and that he had been killed by a woodcutter who had killed him with his
acts. And this kid was born and had on his back a long scar
just exactly like you'd expect if you were hit with an axe anyway, So
we arranged to take this kid, not with the village where he was but
to another village where nobody from his village had ever been or even knew existed.
And they we took him up to the village, and as soon as
he got to the edge of the village, he immediately went up to a
particular house. Is too big a word, cottage, I don't know.
Anyway, he went up to this little building and he knocked on the door,
and a woman, an elderly woman, answered the door, and he
called her by a pet name, and she immediately responded because she then said
that that the only person had ever called her by that name was a lover
that she had had, but that she was married to a woodcutter, and
he had come back one day and caught them, and as he was trying
to climb out the window to get away, the woodcutter, who was holding
his axe, had killed him with this axe. So everything this kid said
turned out to be true anyway, So, and if you look at the
work of Ian Stevenson and Jim Tucker, you'll see there's there's literally several thousand
of these kinds of stories. Anyway, I began this research, and I
decided that what I was going to do was to spend my life studying consciousness.
Right, And that's basically what I have done ever since. I mean
I have done other things, you know, As you know, I was
the Special Assistant to the Chief of Naval Operations, to the MIT Secretary of
Defense, Discussion Group on Innovation Technology in the Future, consultant to the Oceanographer
of the Navy. Right, I wrote the speech that John Mourner gave at
bi Centennial when he was by Centennial Commissioner. Yeah, I'm curious because around
that time, i'd say, the late seventies, you launched the Morbius Society,
And I'm curious what were the goals when you when you launched that.
And then we're gonna talk We're gonna get into the Alexandria project here in a
second, but talk about the goals and the wonderful protocol that you developed using
academia and intuition and psychic awareness. Well, when I was special assistant,
there was a project that began that the Navy was interested in, how do
you communicate with a deep ocean ballistic missile submarine without bringing it to the surface
because if it got close to the surface, Soviet satellites could pick up the
heat bloom from the reactor, so they didn't want them to come up to
the surface. They wanted them stay submerged. So they started a project to
see how deeply electromagnetic radiation could penetrate into the ocean. It was called Project
SENDWIN and then Project ELF, or maybe it's the other way around, ELF
and then SENDWIN. But in any case, the Navy spent about one hundred
and twenty five million dollars figuring out very precisely two things, how deep radio
radiation could penetrate into seawater and what the bit rate of transmission was. That
is, how much information you could get across. If you saw, for
instance, to the movie to Search for Red October. You know there's a
scene in there where they get a message and they have to go to a
book and open it up. And because the bit rate of transmission for ELF
extreme low frequency three to three hundred hurts is extremely limited, and so all
you get across is a few numbers, and so the submarines have a board.
The submarines are books which say, you know, one to three means
target this city, and then four means to fire or whatever. So it's
very little little bits of information, far less than remote viewing can provide anyway.
So they had done all of this, and at that time the big
question in parapsychology was is what we call psychic electromagnetic in nature? And so
I was reading all of this stuff and and then John Warner of Sectarian Navy
at that point asked me to go up to Groton, Connecticut with him to
launch a nuclear submarine. And on the plane was him and Rick Over,
the father of the nuclear Navy, created all the nuclear navy in and I
had this experiment in mind, and I had in preparing for a speech that
I had written for Admiral Zumwalt Elmo Zumwalt, I had come across research a
book which said Admiral Lord Nelson in the Battle of Abu Kirbey the Battle of
the Nile, in which he fought the French Admiral Bruyer, he because of
the nature of the cannons aboard the ships at that time in the seventeen hundreds,
the black powder caused so much smoke that it was hard for the ships
to see what was going on or to get to get commands from their commander.
So Nelson created this system which I'm brilliant in which he had the frigates
smaller ships sort of like destroyers today. They would sail up and down.
And he had created a code book and there was a picture. When I
was doing this research for this speech, there was I was looking for some
historic reference. There was a picture in the book of this manual that Nelson
had created. So if there was a red flag with a white stripe that
meant to do something TAC left, and if it was a blue flag with
white dot that meant TAC light. I mean, I just made that up,
but it was. He created what he called an associated command, and
I thought, well, that would be very interesting to do. It would
be an associated what we now call what I created the protocol associated remote viewing.
And so I also was reading all of this literature and this big argument
that was going on in parapsychology about is all of this electromagnetic nature? I
mean, the idea of telepathy, a word that was coined back in the
nineteenth century. The concept of it was that you were sending a signal to
another person, that your brain was sending a signal to their brain. That's
the way people conceived of telepathy. And I did not think that was correct,
But the only way to test it would be to put a person in
a condition where he was completely shielded or they were completely shielded from electromagnetic radiation,
because then if that was true, then it couldn't be electromagnetic. So
also at this same time we're talking here in the early seventies, a friend
of mine was the head of the CIA, and he began to send me
because everybody knew of my interest in a parapsychology consciousness research. I don't like
the word parapsychology either, because it means standing next to psychology, which is
not the right conceptual word anyway. So I began getting these translations of what
had been classified documents. A man named Leonid Vassiliev who was a scientist working
in then Leningrad now St. Petersburg, and he was putting people down into
caves and into mine shafts, into Faraday cages. We would shield from electromagnetic
radiation down in the caves or down in the mines, and he would ask
them to do non local perception, which is the correct term, by the
way. He would ask them to do tasks in which they would acquire information
from the non local domain that they couldn't know intellectually and they were able to
do it, and so he was. He was I was getting these papers
from from this friend of mine, from Vassiliev, and Vassiliev finally said,
well, the only way that this could be working is if it was ELF
extreme low frequency electromagnetic three to three hundred herds. And at about that same
time a researcher in Canada, Michael Persinger, who was advocating that this was
in fact the explanatory, the explanation for non local perception. He also argued
in his paper that it must be ELF. So I thought, oh,
okay, well I will see if I could get somebody to put me aboard
a submarine that was at depth, because I knew exactly how deep it had
to be because of this sixth project that the Navy had done. And as
I said, I was on this flight up to Groton, Connecticut that Warner
had asked me to go along with him, and Rickover, the father of
the nuclear Navy, was a board, and I asked him if he would
let me do this experiment. I explained what it was, and he said,
well, let me think about it. And about a week later,
I've got a call, and he called me up and he said, I've
been thinking about that experiment you asked me about, and no, I'm not
going to do it, because even though we make it secret, it will
inevitably somebody will leak the data. Too many people will find out about it,
and the media will get hold of it, and they'll start talking about
the deep ocean nuclear submarines with ballistic missiles, and we'd prefer that not happen.
We really, I mean, most Americans have no idea that there are
nuclear submarines going around with ballistic missiles. It's part of what's called the the
Triad defense strategy. Anyway, So I'm sorry. It's an interesting experiment,
but we're not going to do it. So I thought, well, it
will never happen. We're going to take a short commercial break to allow our
sponsors to identify themselves, and we will return shortly with my guest today,
Stephen Schwartz. Be right back. My guest today is Stephen Schwartz, the
author of the Secret Vaults of Time, who has done extensive work using remote
viewing in archaeological digs. Anyway, I left government because of Watergate. I
just I couldn't tell the good guys from the bad guys, and I thought,
I can't work like this. So I literally walked away from a career
and I decided to go out and explore using what again I called at that
point distant viewing in archaeology. And the reason I did that was I wanted
to create an experiment, a protocol that was so rigorous that it would be
impervious to criticism, because I don't like to be embarrassed, and so I
at that At the same time in archaeology, the big discussion that was going
on was where to look, because at that point, most archaeological finds were
made because we're serendipitous. You know, a farmer would be plowing in his
field and find a tomb, or a road crew would be building a road
and find a temple, or you know, something like that, and so
the big discussion amongst archaeologists is where to look? And I thought, well,
here's a perfect example. This is perfect triple blind conditions. That is,
nobody will know the answer at the time that I get the information,
so it's pure triple blind. There is no way you could get this answer
any other way because in parapsychology, at that point, criticism of the remote
doing to exist yet in parapsychology. But I mean was the only person doing
it. The big argument and criticism was, oh, you know you,
it was the way your facial expression and you cued them as to what to
say, or yeah, I mean, all kinds of nonsense. So there
was one one denier who claimed that they had the people doing the response,
had someone up on the up above them and the floor above them who drilled
a hole through the floor. This is where they would say, I'm holding
a card, you know, can you tell me what card was? Zenner
cards, that kind of thing. Yeah, anyway, so I thought,
well, this is perfect. I'll combine the electric issue with location issue,
and I went to I left government. I went to to Tucson to write
a book called The Secret Vaults of Time, because I wanted to write a
book about all of the use of remote viewing in archaeology. Prior to my
getting involved, remote viewing, you know, I mean, did not begin
with me, or with Russell targor how put off. People have been doing
remote viewing for thousands of years. The oldest remote viewing that we have that
he can call remote viewing. Obviously, the oldest remote viewing that we have
is in the forty sixth chapter of Herodotus. Herodotus is considered the father of
history, and he's describing an experiment that took place in the fifth century BC.
And this was an experiment. Today we would call this an outbound protocol.
But basically King Cresus, king of the Olidians, which is now part
of Turkey, learned that he was going to be attacked by the Persians and
he was obviously very concerned. They were much larger than his army, his
kingdom, and so he was very concerned about this and thought, we know
what can I do? And he finally decided, well, he would go
and consult the oracles. In Greece at that time, there were seven oracles.
These were temples where they would train young people, young women in the
or young men, mostly women. They would train them in a meditation technique
that would allow them to open to non local consciousness to give non local perception
information to people who came to the oracles. So he assembled seven teams of
people, sort of seven diplomatic units, and he told them all, I
want you to go out to the oracles. I want you to wait for
the hundredth day. And on the hundredth day, I want you to go
into the oracle, and I want you to ask the oracle what is Creesus,
son of ali Etes, King Olydian's doing today. And so these seven
teams of people went out to the seven oracles, and the only one we
know because Herodotus wrote it down in the forty sixth chapter when they all came
back after the hundredth day. And it took a long time because they had
to travel. These were long sea voyages to get to the where the oracles
were located. So the only one we know about is the oracle from Delphi.
And on the hundredth day they went in to where the oracle was,
and this was a young woman who was sitting in a kind of tripod,
hanging in the seat over a cleft in the earth from which hydrocarbons, which
produced psychedelic effects, bubbled up. And before they even asked their questions,
she said, I can count the sands of time, the hundred days,
and the great ocean, the trip that they had just taken, and I
see a great urn, a bronze urn hanging from a tripod with a bronze
lid, and a sheep and a tortoise being cut up and thrown into the
boiling water of the thing. And of course it didn't make any sense to
him at all. They didn't have any idea what she was talking about.
But they wrote it all down as they had been instructed to do, and
they went back and when they got back to Creasus in Lydia. And by
the way, the reason we know Creasus is as rich as Cresus because he
was the first person in the Greek world to coin money. Anyway, when
they got back and each of the teams reported, when the Delphi team reported
what they had heard been told, he bowed down and gave obesience because Cresus
on that day had decided, what can I do that nobody could possibly guess
I would do, because if they'd said, well, he's sitting on his
throne issuing edicts, well that's what kings do. So he had a great
bronze urn brought into his courtyard of his palace and hung from a tripod and
with a big bronze lid, and he filled up with water, and he
personally cut up a lamb and a tortoise and threw it into the water just
exactly as she had described, and so he decided that he would listen to
the Delphic Oracle. But in any case, that is the first remote viewing
we had have. There are many others. What we created in the seventies
are in the late sixties I started in sixty eight was very rigorous protocols in
which you could not claim that you had gotten the information in any way other
than non local perception. And this is the more bious societies. This the
company that you and so I left government. I went out to let me
go on. Then I went out to Tucson to write this book and to
do an remote viewing archaeological project up in the Little Elden Mountains up above Flagstaff,
Arizona, and I wrote this book. I along with a guy named
Joe Long at the American Anthropological Association, I started what became the Association for
the Anthropology of Consciousness, and I, out of the blue, I got
a invitation. Peter Tompkins and I had been talking about writing a biography of
a man named Manly Hall. Peter Tompkins wrote Secret Life of Plants and co
wrote it with Chris Bird and Secrets of the Great Pyramid Secrets of the Mexican
Pyramid, and so he had contacted them, and Henry Drake, who was
the vice president there, had called me in and invited me out. So
I went out to Los Angeles, and while I was there, I stayed
with a friend of mine, Don Keach, who had been the deputy director
of Navy Labs, and he and his best friend, guy named Don Walsh,
who had made the deepest dive in history, had taken over the Institute
of Marine and Coastal Studies at the University of California excuse me, Southern California.
University of Southern California. And while I was there Don Keach we were
having lunch and he said to me, you know that crazy submarine experiment you
wanted to do, And I said, yeah, but we were never able
to do it. Where you're going to get a submarine? And he said,
well, as it happens, we have a research submarine that's coming down
to do its sea trials at our facility on Catalina Island. And Don and
I have talked it over and we're prepared to fund three days to let you
do that experiment. I'd like to see how it comes out and I said,
Okay, let's do it. So I came out to Los Angeles and
I moved out there, and this is the summer of seventy seven, and
I designed this experiment which came to be called Deep Quest. And the point
of the experiment was one to determine by getting, first of all, asking
people to locate on a map the location of a previously unknown wreck on the
sea floor between Catalina Island and the mainland of the United States. One that
was the first thing. Second thing, because that would test whether you could
go through the water, whether ELF could explain it. And then the second
part was to put remote viewers aboard the submarine, one at a time and
submerge them to depth and asked them to describe, just like the Creases experiment,
where in this case Russ Targe and how put Off, who I had
just met, where they were hiding. And so I was originally going to
use George McMullen and Alan Vaughan as the viewers, but Alan got the flu
and George McMullen had a co worker at the Dealer car dealership where he worked
whose wife had a child early a premature child, and he couldn't leave because
the other guy was home with his wife and their new baby. So I
had literally just met Ingo Swan and Hellahammed, and I asked them to be
the remote viewers to come with me as to go into the submarine, and
I had previously sent out a seat copy of the sea chart. What you
do is take all the colors off and the names off, and you make
it into a blueprint. So and it's all one color or the blue and
the grayish blue and the white. Because I knew from research I had done
in psychology that people are attracted to specific colors, and so the way to
avoid that is eliminate the colors and get the names off. And so I
sent them just as I had back in the day when I had had the
grid in my yard. I sent them out sea charts had been made into
blueprints and said, please locate a previously unknown wreck on the sea floor and
described for me in detail what I will find when I go there. And
they did, and then I turned it over to the Institute and they're one
of their officers created what for me a master map, because what you're looking
for is that we're consensus where people multiple people described the same location and I
so we this submarine came down called the Taurus from a company called Hiko which
was up in Canada, and we went out in the submarine and I had
a surface ship that's that was the support vessel for the submarine. Go to
the exact location that the consensus zone that they picked and to drop a location
device called the PingER that goes ping, ping, ping, and you just
home in on it. And so they did that, and then we sank
down to the bottom of the ocean and we listened for the ping Ingo Swan
was aboard of any fine tuning. The night before, Hella had come to
me and described I looked in and we looked for consensus on what are called
Lowa priority things you'd never expect to hear. And the night before we did
the dives, Hella had come to me and said, you're going to find
a big stone block about five by six by seven and it's a big granite
block. And I thought, what in the world would that be about.
Let me stop be real quick, stephen is this was this off the California
coast. That these wrecks were a wreck, a single wreck, okay,
yes, And I had the Bureau of Land Management Marine Sites Board, who
know they keep track of every wreck on the West coast of the United States.
I said, do you know of such a wreck? And the head
of the Marine Sits Board said, there is no wreck there that we know
about. So again triple blind. So we went there and they had just
scribed in detail. They said this was a wooden ship, that it had
sunk about nineteen oh six, that it did that because it had a it
had a kind of steam engine on the deck that had blown up and set
fire to the ship, and it had sunk in place, and uh,
and that we would find the remains of the of this steam engine that was
on the ship that ran some kind of uh, some kind of crane I
think, and uh, that we would find that we would find the stern
wheel of the ship and a and the shaft on it, that we would
see that. And then as they say, hell, I came in and
described this granite block we would find and I filmed all of this. You
can go to my personal website www. Stephane Schwartz dot com and you can
see the movie. I got Leonard Nimoy, doctor Spock, to do the
narration for the movie and anyway, So we homed in on the PingER and
there exactly as you'll see in the film. There was the wreck exactly where
they had placed it, and it was exactly as they described it. We
found part of the steam engine for the winch. We found the wheel with
the shaft, and we found Hella's big block. And you were using your
your protocol of the psychics Hella and I don't know if it was pad or
not. No, that wasn't an ingo. Were the ones on site?
Right? So you had them? And what else did you use as your
protocol? Did you have? The like created a protocol called the Mobius consensus
protocol where you get multiple people to do the remote viewing. You break you
break down, you transcribe the tapes. Because they did them. They were
I got I've forgotten now eight eight people to do this. They were scattered
all over the place. Send me the tapes, send me back the maps
that I sent them, and then I take You transcribe the tapes and then
you break them down concept by concept. So if I said, for instance,
the man who's interviewing me in the blue shirt, that would be man
interviewing sitting blue shirt. That's five concepts, So each concept gets evaluated correct,
partially correct, can't be evaluated incorrect. And I know from now sixty
years of doing this that we expect to see about thirty five to forty percent
of the material you can't evaluate. That doesn't mean it's wrong, you just
can't evaluate it. If you know, if somebody told you what somebody was
thinking, unless they left a message or a note or something, there was
no way that you would know. So thirty five to forty percent of material
you can't evaluate because there's no way to do it. Of the remaining percent,
you expect to see somewhere between seventy five and ninety percent of the information
be evaluated is correct or partially correct, but operational. Partially correct would be
if I said the man interviewing me in the black shirt, then I would
be wrong because it's a dark blue shirt, but it would still be operational.
So I went through that process, and so we when we went to
dive in the in the Taurus, I knew we were looking for a ship.
We were looking for a ship that had caught fire and sunk. That
it had a winch aboard, a steam engine winch which had blown up,
and that we would find this shaft with the with the wheel on it,
we would find the remains of the of the winch Uh steam engine, and
we would find this block and it would have happened approximately in nineteen six.
Wow, that's amazing. So it's very specific. Yeah, I mean,
I really want to emphasize. This gets very very specific. Yeah. Well,
so we dived on it and we found the ship. So that was
the foundation for the Morbius Society. Yes, can we go forward a little
bit. I'd like you to talk about the Alexandria project and how you came
about with the different targets. Well, okay, that's nineteen seventy seven.
So I presented this paper about this project project deep quest and oh and also
by the way, Hella and Ingo each successfully accurately described where hal and Russ
were hiding. And the importance there is that in both this and the archaeological
part, the amount of data transmitted was far in excess of what you could
do with ELF and they were it was at great depth, and so that
ended the discussion. There was no way that you could explain remote viewing or
telepathy as electromagnetic in nature. That's not what's happening despite all the people that
had claimed that was what it was. So anyway, so that one individual
who thought that it was a frequency generated detectable energy was wrong when he talked
about remote viewing. Yes, okay, well he didn't call it remote viewing,
but he got people to do what I would call non local perception to
a local perception, right, okay, which is the proper way to think
of it. Anyway, So I did. I presented these papers and they
got a lot of you know, there was a lot of media coverage,
and I made this I cut this film and I put it in a show
called In Search of and I got Leonard Nemoi to do the narration. Anyway,
So in UH seventy eight, I was approached by two women historians who
came to me. I was in Los Angeles and they came to me and
they asked me, could you locate the tomb of Alexander the Great and the
palace of Cleopatra and the Timonium of Mark Anthony. And I said, well,
I don't know. Yeah, you know, I'm willing to try if
you can get the funding. And they said, oh, we've got the
funding, but we just we need somebody to do this. Nobody knows where
these things are located. So you know that from my point of view,
Oh nobody knows. Well, then it's triple blind. So I said,
well, okay, if you've got the funding and well, let's give it
a run. So that became the Alexandria Project. Wow, and I had
eleven people who were remote viewers. Once again, I got charts that maps
of Alexandria, Egypt and the Eastern Harbor, and I sent them out to
these people and I said, please locate the tomb of Alexander, and locate
Cleopatra and Mark Anthony. And oh, while you're at it, why don't
you locate the Lighthouse of Pharaohs one of the seven Wonders of the ancient world?
Why did you pick the lighthouse of the Pharaoh of Pharaohs? Was that
because it was in the general vicinity of Yeah, okay, it was.
It was in the general of a sended and it was one of the seven
wonders of the ancient world. That was a lot of looking for it.
Yeah, okay, I'm really curious to hear this because, uh, these
things were buried in they thought it was underwater, right, No, nobody
knew where they were. No one knew where they were. Okay, all
right, so okay, so people did the locations for me. They located
the tomb of Alexander, which was under a mosque, the mosque of Nevy
Daniel, and the lighthouse, and Cleopatra's palace, and Mark Anthony's palace,
the Timonium and the Pompei pillar. Those were all located out in the harbor,
which nobody knew at the time. Okay, now again, because I
want things to be extremely meticulous, I run a parallel to the remote viewing
part of it. I asked people to do electronic remote survey surveys of the
same area. What was it? What was the technology back? And it
wasn't satellite taking scar? Side scan soonar very good. Yeah, So I
didn't know him at all. I looked up side scan SONAR. I didn't
really know a lot about it, and I discovered it had been invented by
a man named Harold Edgerton who was the chairman of radio physics at M I
T. And I sent him a telegram and said, I'm over here,
I'm doing this. I'm using this non local perception technique and would you come
over and do the side scan sonar of the same area to see if side
scan sonar can locate what the remote viewers are locating. And he, with
being a real scientist, said well, if you can do it between a
certain date in May when I'm available, I'm your man. You fly me
first class and put me up in a good hotel. I said, I
can do that. So I had Harold Edgerton come over and do I mean,
you just couldn't get any better than that, wow, and do the
side scan sonar of the Eastern Harbor, and he reported. We published a
paper together. He reported he couldn't find anything. But the remote viewers had
not only located all of the things that we're talking about, but they had
also said the city once extended much further out into what is now the bay,
and that there was a shift and the so Edgerton, who was a
lovely man, came out with his side scan sonar gear and he did a
survey and he reported, I don't see anything. And I had I put
together teams of people who are experts in various things. I had Mikailowski Rajeyevich,
who was a Polish archeologist who was at that time the leading Alexandrian archaeologist
in the world. He's a Russian. Now he's Polish. I thought he
was okay, bullish, all right. And and I had Peter Fraser,
acknowledged by everybody to be the leading historian of Alexandria egypt history, who was
at All Souls College at Oxford as my consultants. And I had Harold Edgerton,
chief of radio physics lab at m I t as my side scan sonar.
So I go to the top. Yeah, anyway, So we then
went diving. I got the the egypt I go into the head of the
Egyptian Navy, the Admiral, and I got him to give me his diving.
He had a commando team of divers and they would help me dive,
and as well as myself and one of the women who was an experienced diver,
and we went. The thing about this is this is not about searching.
Using non local perception in archaeology is not about searching. It's about finding.
You just go to the exact place that they tell you it's either there
or it's not there. Well, let me ask you about that real quickly.
When you're not using the site scan sonar data is people are people like
Hella giving you longitude longitude latitude? Are they giving you land points to reference?
How are they picking these locations? They locate them on a map,
little circle. So they had you had a map of the of the bay,
had a map of Alexandria. It was a British military map, Okay,
And I made it into I made it again. I made it into
a blueprint, took all the names off all that. I mean, I
can show you pictures of all this. And in fact, you can watch
this movie too, because I made a movie of this as well. I
actually saw this one Alexandria project. You have a couple of movies. Yeah,
so yeah, yeah, Well in any case, so we went diving
and we found first of all, and from Rajeevitch's point of view, the
most important was we found that the ancient sea wall was about thirty feet further
out than the present day seawall, and and that Cleopatra's palace was underwater,
Mark Anthony's palace was underwater, Pompey's pillar was underwater, and the lighthouse of
Pharos was underwater. Wow, And we we photographed all of that. We
you know, as you saw the film and the remote viewers it was exactly
as they described it, and that was all confirmed by Brjeevic. I got
Mustafa Ellabetti, who was the head of of of Anthropology at the University of
Alexandria, and Dao Abu Daoud, who was the president of the Archaeological Society,
who was also a professor at the university, and another professor called Fausi
Fakarani, and all of these guys were part of the consulting team that I
used to evaluate the accuracy of the dad and to compare what the remote viewers
found versus what you could find electronically. Now, let me stop. You're
just right there, Stephen. This is fabulous, fantastic, mind blowing data.
You actually found each of the places that you were sent out to look
for. This is prime material for the Smithsonian or for the National Geographic Obviously
it's a little too much for them at that time of our history. How
was this reported and did you have any reaction from the orthodoxy? Well,
it was picked up by media all over the world. It was okay,
and I presented I wrote it up as I said. Harold Edgerton and I
wrote a paper together and in which he reported what he found with the side
scan, and I reported what I found with non local perception. I presented
it at several archaeology conferences. Years later. One of the archaeologists was at
that conference came to me and asked me to locate Christopher Columbus's caravel from his
fourth voyage, which we did. Yeah. I want to go into that
in a minute, but I'm just really curious. I think you were too
far ahead of yourself in seventy seven for people to react in the manner that
they might today with all the technology we're using with LDAR and things, Sisko
Star. I'm just curious. Did you feel that your reception was enough?
Because to my mind, it's almost like this should be taught in colleges,
you know, I mean it got a lot of media attention. I wasn't
seeking media attention, you know, I did one doing anything that I never
have sought it. You know, just like our interview here, you came
up, you called me, I don't solicit I don't solicit media attention,
right, I mean, yeah, I got a lot of media attention.
I went on the MERV Griffin show, The Door. They I can't think
of her name. Now, oh o Oprah, I went I did Oprah?
Yeah, no, I would Dinah Shore. Oh boy, we're talking
a long time ago, my friend. Yeah. Yeah, So anyway,
I did you know I did lots of interviews with lots of people Oprah at
that point, at at a radio show in Chicago. Yeah, nobody attacked
it. No, that's not true. One guy attacked it, but he
was so it was so shoddily argued that he made a fool of himself.
I mean, one of the reasons that I do this kind of extremely meticulous
There isn't anybody else that I know who does this kind of thing. Yeah,
this very meticulous work is I don't want to have somebody standing up saying,
oh, if only you've done whatever. Yeah you you wouldn't have been
able to. That's how you found it. You read it up on some
secret book. Yeah. Let me just stop you real quickly. This this
is what I want to I want you to ask this answer this question.
It's extremely expensive for a university to fund a dig in Egypt. It can
be in the millions of dollars. We've had a number of people on this
program, uh talking about that. We've had doctor Richard Hanson, who's in
Guatemala excavating the Big Mind sight El Miodor. Wouldn't it make sense if they
had somebody using your protocol to help them pimp point because they're looking for a
king or a queen, that's their primary goal. Wouldn't it make sense to
pull somebody with your protocol in to help them? You'd think, so,
oh boy, But they don't. I don't know anybody else. I thought
at one point that other archaeologists would pick this up, and I've published in
meticulous detail exactly how I did it. You can get the papers. You
go up to Academia dot du and download the papers, and you you know,
it's all spelled out. I wrote a book called Opening to the Infinite,
which tells you exactly how to do it. No, I don't know.
I think it. I don't actually know why nobody has picked it up.
Yeah, I think it's it's it's it's too much for typical academia.
They're they're too linear. They're they're thinking, is uh, isn't creative enough.
I'm just shocked because I, like I'm saying, saying, I have
I have archaeologists, Egyptologists on this program who are funded and they come back
with bags of sand with a few nibbles here and there, and that's it.
Yeah, of course, you know, and and and these guys.
This seems like something that would be very useful. Yes, I've been doing
it, you know. I mean, you make a list of it.
We did the did Question experiment. We located the unknown wreck on the sea
floor. We did the Alexandria Project, which located all kinds of things we
haven't even gotten into yet. I did the Caravel project to locate Christopher Columbus's
thing. We did the project to find Queen Elizabeth's force that would stole him.
We solved several murders. Yeah, that couldn't be solved otherwise. I
mean I just did it over and over and over again, and I published
all these papers and spelled it out exactly how to do it. And yes,
I think it's really the problem is people find it very hard to conceive
that you actually could do this. I think that's the problem. I think
there's two things. And I want you to highlight a few more things about
Alexandria. Before we moved to Columbus. We're going to take a short commercial
break to allow our sponsors to identify themselves, and we will return shortly with
my guest today, Devin Schwartz, talking about remote viewing. We'll be right
back. My guest today is Stephan Schwartz. He is a research investigator,
a parapsychologist who has actively pursued psychics in the discovery of archaeological ruins, sites,
and individuals from the ancient past. You in your bio you you're considered
you consider yourself a futurist, and I think the issue is that you're you're
using technique, technology and protocols that are too far ahead for current minds.
That's number one. Yeah. The other thing is that I think it's a
challenge for teachers, professors of archaeology or anthropology to consider using your protocol,
even though it could save them millions of dollars, could eliminate time and effort
to find these questions. And I'm laughing because it's it's it's fascinating, and
you have shown time after time that you can get excellent results for probably a
hell of a lot less money than pointing a satellite at a certain location and
hoping you get results. So I want to move on real quickly, what
was the most significant I mean, other than finding Alexander's tomb, the Palace
of Cleopatra, remains of the lighthouse, and so on. Was there something
within that grouping that you thought was outstanding beyond the obvious archaeological Fine, that's
a big one, because you did dig up quite a bit well, you
know, in order to get permission to dive in the Eastern Harbor, which
at that time seventy nine, you know, Russia had been in control of
Egypt, and you weren't allowed to dive in the Eastern Harbor. So to
get I wanted to get I had to get permission. I mean you literally
just couldn't do it. You had to get permission, right, and the
archaeologists at the University of Alexandria were opposed to my doing that. So we
finally ended up in a in a meeting in the office of the Governor of
Alexandria at that time, the second most powerful man in the country, Mohammed
Hilm and I had harold Edgerton with me. We went to the meeting together
and they told me all the reasons they didn't want to do it, and
they then said the governor Hilmey who has got interested in it. He said,
well, okay, let's do a test, and you know, can
you design a test for him me? And they said, oh yes,
yes, we could do that. We are beginning an excavation about forty kilometers
further into the desert of a buried city called Maria that was once a kind
of pleasure city, and we if he could locate a particular building then then
okay, that would convince us. Well we don't think it's going to happen,
so he said. Governor Hillmey said to me, would you be willing
to do that? I said, oh, yeah, sure, and that
kind of surprised him. So that then we we've set it up and on
the appointed time and day, I had George McMullen and Hella Hammed who had
flown over into flown to Egypt and to do the on site because we start
with the maps and then we do the onset. Only in this case they
didn't have a map, so I couldn't do the map part. So I
only had Hella and George. And again you can see this in the movie.
So Filszi Facarani was the professor was assigned to this who was doing the
excavation. He knelt down in the sand and he said, look, I
want you to locate a buried building in the city of Maria, and I
want you to locate a building that's got mosaics, multiple room building with mosaics,
something important. And so George McMullen, who was down in the knelt
kneeling in the sand with him, said okay. So we started out there
was we were searching an area of about gosh, I don't remember, about
seventeen hundred square kilometers and it's in the desert right you can see in the
film. So we walk around for a couple hours. George is getting his
bearings, and then he says, okay, I know where I want to
go. And we go back and we say to Facarani, we know where
we want to go. And we get in our cars. He's got about,
oh, I don't know, maybe ten graduate students that are with him
in a couple of cars, and and I'm with Helen and George and Hell's
in one car, George in another, and and we drive out where George
tells us go turn left, turn right, and we get to this place.
He says, okay, stop the car and we get out of the
car and George gets out and he starts walking up the hill and were everybody
comes behind and we got the cameras are running and George says, I said,
you know, you know where are we George? And he said,
well, I'm walking over a wall. I said, you're walking over a
wall. He said, yeah, wall. It's about three four feet down.
There are going to be three rooms and it's a Christian building, which
very interesting, and it'll be just here, you know, just here,
and he lays it out and I said to him, okay, George,
thank you. And he goes away. And Hella, who's been sitting out
in the sun now for it's about one hundred and fourteen degrees. Oh,
Hella has been sitting out in the sun now for about three and a half
hours, and she's really getting sun strokes, she's getting sick. I bring
her in and I don't ask her to walk around because I'm worried she's really
going to get seriously ill. So I just take her to where George the
general area where George had described, and I said, Hella, why don't
you sit down? And so just find a place you want to sit down
and so she walks around the top of this hill and she finally walks to
this same place that Georgia had picked, sits down and she says, well,
okay, I'm sitting over a building. There are three rooms. In
the middle of the second room, there is a strange clay column, and
I associate heat with it. I don't know why. And it's a Christian
building. And I can hear the archaeologists who are sort of in it,
not you know, maybe twenty feet away. I can hear them snickering and
laughing as they listen to all this fakarani, you know, making jokes about
it. And she says, it's you know, it's here. There's three
rooms, there's this clay call Christian. Okay. Then she goes away and
actually goes back to the hotel because by then she's really getting quite sick.
I'm worried she's going to get sunstroke. And we bring George back and I
say to George, I don't he doesn't know anything about Hella. Didn't He
was not there, you know, he was off, he was driven away
while she was doing her part. I say, George, I want you
to go to the place that you've described and I have these wooden stakes,
which you put the stakes in the ground to lay out the building. Now
you think about that, the corners, He said, okay, I'll do
that. So he puts the stakes down exactly where he wants. He says,
the corners are to be found, and he describes this, Uh,
these little tiles red, black and white, about five six cinks of an
inch clay on white clay on one side and marble on the other. Yeah,
he says, but most of them were taken away, but there's still
a few of them there. And so it's all staked out. And he
goes away, and Facarani and his team come up and they're just and they
thought the whole thing was crap. It's just that simple. Why because and
I didn't know this until afterwards. The University of Guelf had sent a team
over to work with the Egyptians and they had done proton procession magnetometer survey,
ground penetrating radar and proton procession magnetometer. They had done a survey of the
same area that George had picked and there was nothing there. Oh, and
they had published a paper saying there's nothing there. So they showed me the
paper. Ha ha, there's nothing there. You know you're not gonna pass
the test. I said, well, let's dig down and see. So
we dig down at three feet and a few inches. The first walls up
here turns out their three rooms. Well, let me stop you, Stephan,
let me stop you. The ground penetrating radar would have picked something if
it's good for like ten feet. Yeah, I didn't do it. So
they missed it. They missed the walls, what you're seeing, they missed
the whole building. Wow, amazing. I mean, I can you know
if you look at the paper again, go to Academia dot EEDU look at
it. It's called the Maria paper, and you can. You can watch
that. You can see the whole thing. You can want it happen in
the movie. Anyway, we get down it's exactly. George is twenty eight
inches off out of fourteen hundred square miles. Wow. And we dig down
in their three rooms, and then we dig a little deeper and there's Ella's
column. It turns out it was a Bedouin oven that must have been used
by the Bedouins after the city had been abandoned, but before it was buried.
We dig down a little further and there are the little tiles that George
has described. We dig down a little further and we find the Christian concentration
consecration marks on the foundations of the building. Fakarani has told me, not
only is there nothing there, but if there were anything there, it would
be Roman, it wouldn't be Byzantine, it wouldn't wouldn't be Christian Byzantine.
It couldn't possibly be laid out the way you described. And there's nothing there
any way. I mean, they just thought the whole thing was I was
just going to be a huge embarrassment. I think in the in the movie,
there's even a piece or two of the tile that they find, yeah,
that they submit to an authority who verifies it. Yep, yep,
of course. Yeah. Which, well, everything, everything gets verified,
everything gets checked. Everything turns out to be exactly the way the remote viewers
describe it. So we go back to Governor Helmy's office and with the archaeologists,
and Governor Helmy says to him what happened, and they say, well,
i'm I'm I'm him him haha. They were correct, And and then
Governor Helmy says, well, then we're going to get him permission to dive
in the Eastern Harbor. So that was your test that you passed with flying
colors, Yes, and that granted you access to the harbor. Yes,
that kind of a big deal, boy. Yeah. So we dive and
we find the lighthouse, we find Cleopatra, and it's all authenticated by the
archaeologists, and we find the ancient sea wall, which from the jo at
this point of view, is the really big deal because it means that their
whole understanding of how the city was laid out in the Ptolemaic period was wrong.
It was all because they thought they didn't realize how much of the city
had sunk under the sea. Wow. Anyway, so that's Alexandria. Then
the other thing is they located the tomb of Alexander. And we start digging,
and this is nineteen seventy nine, and just at that time, the
students in Iran in Tehran take over the America An embassy, if you remember
that, and freak everybody out right, and the head of Antiquities comes down
from Cairo and says to me, you're going to have to stop digging under
this mosque. This mosque is a Shiite mosque and we're concerned that it may
stimulate people to do something that we just don't want to have happen. We're
watching what's going on in Iraq and are in Iran, and we don't want
that here. It will cause a lot of geopolitical issues. So you're gonna
have to quit. So Okay, everything has proven so far to be correct,
but we can't continue. So I'm very depressed about that cast down and
we're driving away. George is in the car with me, and he says,
oh, well, don't worry. The bones aren't there anyway. And
I said, what he said, The bones aren't there anyway. So what
do you mean there aren't there? He said, well, when the Muslims
took over Alexandria. That'd be six forty one C. When the Muslims took
over Caliph Omar took over Alexandria. A group of monks came down from the
monastery. There's a monastery that's up towards Cairo, that's out in the desert,
and they masqueraded as merchants and they brought down some donkeys and some leather
bags, and they went into what was at that time was a church.
But before that had been the soma, the tomb of Alexander, and they
gathered up all the bones in the ossiuary and took them away and brought them
up to the monastery, and that's where the bones are. And I said,
well, gosh, George, that's fascinating, but this is before DNA.
That's fascinating. But I mean, you know, a bunch of bones,
how would I tell which were Alexander's? He said, oh, it'll
be simple. I said, really, how will it be simple? He
said, well, when Mark Anthony was with Cleopatra and Alexandria, in order
to establish a connection with Alexander, to give him status, he went into
the tomb of Alexander, which had a crystal coffin. Ptolemy Philadelphia said,
put it Alexander's mummified body in the crystal coffin. He had him opened it
up, and he took off his red Russia as read Roman war cape,
and he had him put the war cape around the body of Alexander and put
it back in the tomb, so that he was associated with Alexander. And
after the Christians took over, they didn't really care about the tomb, and
they had built a church. They weren't really maintaining it, and water seeped
into the coffin and it leached the red dye from Mark Anthony's war Cape into
the bones of Alexander. So you just look for the red bones. Oh
boy, I thought, and I said, oh, well, that's very
interesting, George. Okay. So about two weeks later, a week later,
I get a call from NBC and they say there's a monastery up near
Cairo, out in the desert and they think they have found the bones of
John the Baptist, and you have the only archaeologically trained film crew in the
country. Would you go up and film for us this place where they found
found these bones. I said sure. So we made a deal. And
I says, as long you know, we're doing what we're doing, but
on a weekend we could go up and do that. And so we made
a deal and I went up to what turned out to be the Monastery of
San Macarius at Watti Natroon, which is basically an oasis out in the middle
of the desert, and there's this huge structure it looks like a looks like
a fort of some kind, only has one door. And I go up
and have no phone. I go up and knock on the door, and
this uh monk opens the door and I tell him why I'm here and about
the John the Baptist, and he said, well, come in, and
I said, we don't tell me what's going on. I don't quite get
it. And he said, well, we have a chapel that we associate
with John the Baptist, and we don't know why, but we have always
associated with John the Baptist. And we had a crack in the wall of
the chapel, and when we were repairing the crack, we discovered this tomb.
I said, really, and he said yeah, And I said what
was in the tomb? He said, the bones are about fourteen people.
Really, I said, I still haven't made the connection. I said,
that's very interesting. Do you know where the bones came from? He said,
oh, yes, we know exactly where they came from. And we
go into the library and he opens up this ancient book and he says,
you see what happened was when the Muslims took over Alexandria, a group of
the brothers, the Christian monks, took their donkeys and some leather bags and
they went down to Alexandria and they went to what is now the Mosque of
Neby Daniel, and they went to the Ossiuary and they gathered up the bones,
put them in the rubber and the leather bags, and brought them back
up here and buried them somewhere. We didn't know where. And now we
understand that this is what we discovered. And I said, oh, I'll
zee by. Now I'm really on target. I said, do you is
there anything about any of the bones that is unusual? And he said,
m no, not really. Well, a few of them are stained red,
and I said, oh, really, could I see them? And
he goes he said, oh yes. Then we go in and he there's
a big chest which looks I think is the altar of this chapel. And
he turns out it's a chest and he takes everything off and he opens it
up and they're in the chest is this bag, big red bag And he
says, here their bones are here, and he opens it up and I
can see and and but he won't let the film people fulfillm it because they
believe that these are the some of the at least they know that's more than
one person, but that some of them are the bones of John the Baptist,
and so they're holy relics and they don't want them photographed, so they
only let me photograph the bag in the chest. Oh boy, but but
okay, So but they got these red bones, and I said thank you
very much. And so years go by and DNA begins to develop and is
used in archaeology, and and I contacted the monks and said, would you
let me come back to Egypt and get a little fragment from the bones because
Alexander's father, Philip of Macedonia, his tomb had been found in that during
that period, and they've done a DNA analysis. So if I can get
a little fragment of those red stained bones, we can do a DNA of
it and see if it if it's linked to Phillips, because then we can
prove that those are the bones of Alexander. And they and the abbot of
the monastery, who was the monk that opened the door for me, originally
says no, I'm not going to let you do that. I don't want
to do that. But the younger monks come to me and say, after
the abbot's gone, we got a new abbot, we'll let you do it.
So in the Monastery of San Makarios in watt Watting, I believe are
the bones of Alexander the Great and they are just waiting for someone to do
a DNA analysis. Fantastic. That is a fantastic and a way to conclude
our time together, Stephan. I want to thank you, UH for forgiving
us such great insight into this UH story, into into your personal journey into
what we can only consider psychic archaeology. For those of those who are listening
who want more information, I want to mention that Stephen has a wonderful newsletter
he publishes every day. It is the Schwartz Report dot com I believe dot
net dot net you can see god year's worth of writing and published information.
Give us the other contact points for you, Stevens, so people can learn
more. Go to my personal website www. Stephen A. Schwartz dot com,
ste p h A n A s h W A r t z dot
com. You can see the movies of all the things I've just described.
UH. You can go to academia dot edu or go through my web by
personal website. You can get all my papers. You should also make you
will go to YouTube and just type in Stephen Schwartz and volumes of video and
movies material that you've published. So so you've got lots of You can get
all the books. You go to Amazon, or go to my website,
my personal website. Again, you can get all my books, you can
get all my papers. I make everything openly available. I do not.
There are no secrets, there are no classified material. I would not do
classified research. I turned down a million six a year because I would not
do classified research. I think anything we know about consciousness ought to be made
immediately available to everybody who's interested. So all of my stuff for all of
these years, the papers, the books, the films, the interviews,
it's all freely available, and which is wonderful. Now. One of the
things I want to mention, and for those of you listening, this is
something very important. Stephen has been working on future psychic review remote viewing and
has created two research movements or protocols. He calls them the twenty fifty and
the twenty sixty Research Investigation. We're going to have Stephen back to talk about
those because they present some very interesting aspects of Homo sapiens on Earth, and
as I'm happy to report, we don't kill ourselves, but we are radically
different in twenty fifty and twenty sixty, and Steve has done some great work,
so we're gonna have to have him back to discuss both those research projects.
So Stephen, thank you very very much for your time. We'll have
you back again. That was much longer than I had anticipated, but there's
a lot of great data in that interview. And I want to remind you
that I'm going to have Stephen back on the program because he's done extensive work
on remote viewing the future, and he's got two projects. One is called
twenty fifty and then he's got a new one he started to think, he
said about five six years ago, called twenty sixty Future Look, and he's
already come across with some pretty astounding material, including a new hominin, a
genetically created human using technology called gene splicing. And we've had people on Destiny
talking about a technology called Crisper, and Crisper has been out now for a
few years, but they are able to modify people with certain disease processes,
certain conditions, and it has what looks like the capability to make a very
very impressive homo sapien sapien or a whole different type of hominin, a whole
different type of human being, a genius, physically resistant to various diseases,
very attractive, you know, a whole breed of superhumans. So that's kind
of fantastic. But I've spoken to him enough to know that we got to
get him back to talk about that. So he's probably going to be back
at the end of the year to talk about remote viewing or psychic viewing of
the future using his very stringent protocol. So I was very impressive with what
he had to say about archaeology, and I could speak on in about the
possibilities of finding important data on partially unveiled data. In other words, I'm
fascinated by the Mayan pyramids, and they're not just standing stone effigies to the
guys, they're actually functioning. I'd like to know more about that, and
I think remote viewing would be a one way to look at it. The
other way, of course, is if you remember, we had the man
who says to day was talking about the two Italian scientists who used a new
type of scanning tech in a satellite is an acoustic wave technology and scan the
chips Pyramid Giza in Egypt and found new rooms and passages and corridors and shafts
that go deep, deep, deep under the pyramid, perhaps one hundred feet
or more, connecting with most likely other shafts, canals, whatever you want
to call them. And I'd love to have that happen, or I'd love
to have a scan of a number of the Maya pyramids that are noted to
be very old. But I've just finished, you know, writing articles in
a chapter in my book on this Quitzo quad or the serpent plump feathered Serpent
pyramid at Tiotikon, and I think it's a machine. And I've talked about
this a great deal and people go, well, no, what do you
believe that? Well, I'm not an engineer, but I sure wished the
hell that Gonzalez, the guy who excavated that tunnel and was a very gracious
host, had brought more technology to bear to find out what's going on there,
because I don't believe the Tiuanakins had anything to do with the building of
that pyramid. They came along, probably thousands and thousands of years after the
thing was around, and resettled it. And this is the real problem with
naming a civilization or a culture as the initial founders of a site. And
Tiunako Tiuanakin is a great example of that, simply because it was around before
this other culture came. Same thing can be said with the Aztecs, same
thing we can be said with the dynastic Egyptians. We see it in these
temples. You come over with us and take a look at some of these
temples. They are true megalithic temples. Their floors are massive blocks of sandstone,
megalithic walls, ceilings, roofs, columns just out of sight. And
you know, these egotistical pharaohs put their cartouche on these places and said they're
mine. I built them, I am laying claim to them, and they
have no right to do that. In fact, I would love to see
and Egyptologists begin to really look at some of these temples closer and perhaps do
a little more digging. Kind of a problem in Egyptology when they don't want
to use new technology, and we hear people from the Antiquities Department, most
notably Zahi Hawass, saying that they don't want to use outside resources. They
want to stay local, stay Egyptian, and just used their people well,
basically closing the door on anything that's going to happen fairly reason so. Anyhow,
wonderful they have Stephen Schwartz. I hope you enjoyed that. And again
we're gonna have him follow up for to look at the future. His research
is amazing. Please get his free newsletter. It's the Schwartz Report dot org.
Every single day he posted something and replies to his thousands of Subscribers's free.
It's completely free. He does ask for a donation after a while,
but some of the research is just fascinating, and some of the things he's
pointed his team to look at and reveal are pretty fascinating as well. So
check that out. Hey, we have a few spots left in our Maya
tour November tenth through the seventeenth. Remember we're gonna start at Leventa. We
fly into Mexico. The city is called Villa Hamosa and that's just a few
miles from Leventa, which is kind of the heart of the Olmec. We're
gonna see world class Olmec museums. We're gonna see levent in the city.
We're gonna get a sense of what the Olmes we're all about, and the
next day we jump on a bus and we head to the crown Jewel of
Mayan aristocrats, and that is Plank And I've been wanting to go to Polanky
for as long as I can remember. That's We're gonna be there for two
days. Our host is doctor Edwin Barnhardt. He will be showing us the
first day just the general layout, which takes a good day, and then
the second day he is going to take us to the offbeat pyramids, temples
and other buildings that are not visible to the general public, and he is
going to show us some of the most fascinating sites that you could imagine.
The reason that he knows all this is that as a young graduate student,
he surveyed the complete city civic area and also excavated quite a bit of it,
and he knows what's going on there. So you can't get better guide
than somebody who surveyed for the Mexican government for Ena, the archaeological component of
Mexico's government. He did that for them, and he knows what's going on,
So that's going to be a blast. The following day or two will
go to bottom Pack and some other Mayan cities he has selected just for our
group. Now, this is a one week tour, so he's going to
pack a ton of material into that, add a few lectures and it will
go really quickly. For more information in the full itinerary, go to Earth
Ancients dot com, forward slash tours t O U R S. Check it
out. I think we got two or three spots left. I think the
max we were gonna take was twenty five. I think we're a couple of
people fell or dropped out. So don't wait if you want to join us
November tenth through the seventeenth, check that out. Now. We have made
two announcements since that. Our Grand Egyptian Tour five is happening. That's April
twenty eighth, May nine, twenty twenty four. That's filling up quickly.
We just posted our new itinerary. Check out the ninerary for this tour.
If you've been wanting to go to Egypt, if you've been listening to Earth
Ancients for years and go, hey, I couldn't do it. I can't
do it. I just do it. I just can't. Now's your chance.
Now is your chance. And I gotta tell you people are charging ten
fifteen grand for this, We charge barely five thousand. It covers everything,
all your food, all your beverages, all your air flights, all your
bust tour, private tours the temples. We have more private visits than any
other tour I've ever seen. That means we get to see the Red,
the Bent, the Grand Pyramids, all by ourselves without the general public.
Check out the itinerary Earth Ancients dot com forward slash tours that just got launched
a few weeks ago. But you don't want to stick around. You don't
want to wait on that because it's filling quickly. People have been delayed because
of the pandemic and now are jumping on board, and I'll tell you it's
filling up fast. The last thing I want to mention is that we're doing
Turkey in likely August twenty twenty four. I don't have the itinerary, we're
still playing with it, but I mentioned this and Muhammad mentioned it on our
last Egypt tour. We're already full, we got like thirty people, but
we're gonna expand it. We're gonna expand it, So if you want to
join us for the first Turkey tour, Earth Ancient Turkey tour. Our host
is Muhammad Imbrium, plus a couple of other academics will give us private visits
of the Gobeckley Teppi, Carahan Teppi, this news site, the Darren Kuru,
the Underground City, and many many other amazing sites that you will never
see on your own. Send me an email to Earth Ancients for you at
gmail dot com. I'll get you on the list. I'm hoping to make
an official announcement soon. We're still fine tuning the itinerary because there's a lot
of really cool things that I wanted to see, and I think I stretched
the time limit a little bit. Twelve days goes by really really fast when
you are seeing these amazing, world class sites. So if you want to
join us, like I said, we're probably going to extend it to forty
people, maybe more, send me an email Earth Ancients for you at gmail
dot com and get that on that list. So it's gonna be fun.
That's gonna be a fun tour. Oh my god, so much going on.
Hey. As a final note, if you're enjoying Earth Ancients, please
consider becoming a subscriber for as little as five bucks. What loose change in
your pocket five bucks a month, you can support the work we do here
on the program to become a subscriber to Patreon that's PA t R e O
N dot com, Forward Slash Earth Ancients and subscribe for as little as five,
ten, fifteen, even twenty bucks a month. If you can afford
it, you keep the lights on it. And I gotta tell you we
have a team that requires payment. Yes, you pay people for the work
they do, and I got a good one. I got a good team
again. For more information, go to patreon dot com, Forward Slash Earth
Ancients. And by the way, I place an ebook on the list every
almost thirty days. We've got a great library for you. It's our gift
for being a subscriber. Oh my god, all kinds of great books by
many of the people here on Earth agents some of them are from Destiny.
And that's our thank you for being a subscriber. So I want to thank
the following people for subscribing in the month of August. I want to thank
Christy, John Montgomery, Music, Anthony North, Jason Yashida, Evan Kirkwood,
Tina Smith and Sammy. You guys, rock, I really appreciate your
help and your your subscriptions, Patreon, dot com, Forward slash Earth Agents.
All right, that's it for this program. I want to thank my
guest today, Stephen Schwartz remember Schwartz Report dot org. As always, the
team of Ruth Thomas, Mark Foster, and Chris Hazel. You guys rock
all right, take care of we will and we will talk to you next time.